Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Natalee Holloway => Shango/Simian and other Codetalkers => Topic started by: klaasend on August 01, 2007, 12:31:15 PM



Title: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #1
Post by: klaasend on August 01, 2007, 12:31:15 PM
What were they trying to tell us, or were they a distraction?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 01, 2007, 12:55:15 PM
Our very own Tango Cage!    Where's Lala'a Mom?????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 01, 2007, 01:50:52 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:26 pm
Simian, his lordship did not bring the expected key
the door never existed
Eden is distant

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:33 pm
Simian, His Lordship did not bring the key found in the car, it did not exist
The arawaks can’t open the door
Hope lies with the cowbous,
but the posse was too late
Eden is still distant

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks
The way is clouded for the sacrifice
Rules have changed, so has the maze
the way is lost for the pioneers who went to live among the indians
The flames are growing
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police;
to spare the teepees
Singing cards have lost their power
Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand
His lordship will bestow the title soon….
They will save the teepees and the palace,
but first
The Sacrifice

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:43 pm
Meetings with his lordship will reveal several mysteries
the sacrifice also knows the fires have been lit

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist.
doors to eden remain closed.
The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty.
Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.
If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons.
DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon.
Better to prepare the sacrifice quickly so the cowboys go home
….without the loot

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:34 pm
the struggle between the babylonians and the arawaks still remains hidden
the arawaks awaited the key
his lordship said no
the door to eden remains closed
they are preparing the fire

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:56 pm
The Simian knows his Lordship did not have a key to open the door to eden
the answer lies with the Arawak Nation


Any ideas on who 'his Lordship' is?

Oduber
Rudy Croes
The Govenor General


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: fierljepper on August 01, 2007, 05:26:28 PM
What were they trying to tell us, or were they a distraction?

Hi Klaas,

Followed this nice forum for a while now, but couldn't find a 'register' button on the old home page, so wasn't able to jump in. Also was a bit scared for the monkeys... :-)

By the way, the new layout looks great!

Back to these cryptic texts. I was immediately intrigued by them and read all Simian's and Shango's quotes from this site:

http://truth4natalee.s3.bizhat.com/truth4natalee-post-6811.html (http://truth4natalee.s3.bizhat.com/truth4natalee-post-6811.html)

If you read through the whole sequence of their posts, it actually isn't that difficult to follow (it's only a bit unfortunate that someone "alter-egod" Simian along the way):

In a nutshell: they're talking about a "Dirtyhand" who is the jealous ex-boyfriend of Natalee who they see as the real murderer. However, neither the Aruban legal system (Babylonians) nor the Aruban police/investigation team (Awaraks) are allowed to break into the inner circle of the Mountain Brook students and their parents (the maze and the elders). They postulate a high level cover up deal between US and Aruba officials which aims to conceal this pretty embarrassing case for some influential US people. The cowboys (Equusearch/FBI) are searching Aruba (Babylon) for nothing. Joran van der Sloot (the son) and the Kalpoes (the Hindus/Shivas) are used as the scape goats to distract the attention from Natalees peers. The boys are sacrificed (Joran is 'the lamb', the fire gets heated up) to protect the high level deal. Since they knew that there never would be found any crucial evidence or a body ("the key to edens door"), the whole case ended in the current catch 22.

This is remarkably in line with Dompig's and Renfro's recent story, so Simian/Shango could very well have been one of them. They most certainly were very well informed in those days, even earlier than the press it seemed. "The lord" must therefore be somebody higher up then them. Who was the boss of Dompig ? Who was the president of Aruba ? 8-) 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on August 01, 2007, 06:01:55 PM
fierljepper - welcome!

Yes, the new layout is nice and there are more changes to come!  I have some errands to run right now so I can't get into Shango/Simian with you right now.  If you find the Important Case Document thread and read through there you will find a thread for Shango/Simian posts.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 01, 2007, 10:21:04 PM
What were they trying to tell us, or were they a distraction?

Hi Klaas,

Followed this nice forum for a while now, but couldn't find a 'register' button on the old home page, so wasn't able to jump in. Also was a bit scared for the monkeys... :-)

By the way, the new layout looks great!

Back to these cryptic texts. I was immediately intrigued by them and read all Simian's and Shango's quotes from this site:

http://truth4natalee.s3.bizhat.com/truth4natalee-post-6811.html (http://truth4natalee.s3.bizhat.com/truth4natalee-post-6811.html)

If you read through the whole sequence of their posts, it actually isn't that difficult to follow (it's only a bit unfortunate that someone "alter-egod" Simian along the way):

In a nutshell: they're talking about a "Dirtyhand" who is the jealous ex-boyfriend of Natalee who they see as the real murderer. However, neither the Aruban legal system (Babylonians) nor the Aruban police/investigation team (Awaraks) are allowed to break into the inner circle of the Mountain Brook students and their parents (the maze and the elders). They postulate a high level cover up deal between US and Aruba officials which aims to conceal this pretty embarrassing case for some influential US people. The cowboys (Equusearch/FBI) are searching Aruba (Babylon) for nothing. Joran van der Sloot (the son) and the Kalpoes (the Hindus/Shivas) are used as the scape goats to distract the attention from Natalees peers. The boys are sacrificed (Joran is 'the lamb', the fire gets heated up) to protect the high level deal. Since they knew that there never would be found any crucial evidence or a body ("the key to edens door"), the whole case ended in the current catch 22.

This is remarkably in line with Dompig's and Renfro's recent story, so Simian/Shango could very well have been one of them. They most certainly were very well informed in those days, even earlier than the press it seemed. "The lord" must therefore be somebody higher up then them. Who was the boss of Dompig ? Who was the president of Aruba ? 8-) 

I think you need to study Shango and Simian a bit more.   :roll: :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kat_Gram on August 01, 2007, 10:35:07 PM
Could Ben Vocking be a miising link ? He was high up in the Justice Department, head of the KIA prison. The one that Paulus helped. Paulus went to stay there, wherever that is in Aruba. Wasn't he the govenor of the prison ( KIA ) ?   


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 02, 2007, 09:41:12 AM
No doubt King has a hand in all the corruption.  He was helped by Paulus and I get the feeling that returning the favor is a vital part of that system. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 02, 2007, 10:48:55 AM
What were they trying to tell us, or were they a distraction?

Hi Klaas,

Followed this nice forum for a while now, but couldn't find a 'register' button on the old home page, so wasn't able to jump in. Also was a bit scared for the monkeys... :-)

By the way, the new layout looks great!

Back to these cryptic texts. I was immediately intrigued by them and read all Simian's and Shango's quotes from this site:

http://truth4natalee.s3.bizhat.com/truth4natalee-post-6811.html (http://truth4natalee.s3.bizhat.com/truth4natalee-post-6811.html)

If you read through the whole sequence of their posts, it actually isn't that difficult to follow (it's only a bit unfortunate that someone "alter-egod" Simian along the way):

In a nutshell: they're talking about a "Dirtyhand" who is the jealous ex-boyfriend of Natalee who they see as the real murderer. However, neither the Aruban legal system (Babylonians) nor the Aruban police/investigation team (Awaraks) are allowed to break into the inner circle of the Mountain Brook students and their parents (the maze and the elders). They postulate a high level cover up deal between US and Aruba officials which aims to conceal this pretty embarrassing case for some influential US people. The cowboys (Equusearch/FBI) are searching Aruba (Babylon) for nothing. Joran van der Sloot (the son) and the Kalpoes (the Hindus/Shivas) are used as the scape goats to distract the attention from Natalees peers. The boys are sacrificed (Joran is 'the lamb', the fire gets heated up) to protect the high level deal. Since they knew that there never would be found any crucial evidence or a body ("the key to edens door"), the whole case ended in the current catch 22.

This is remarkably in line with Dompig's and Renfro's recent story, so Simian/Shango could very well have been one of them. They most certainly were very well informed in those days, even earlier than the press it seemed. "The lord" must therefore be somebody higher up then them. Who was the boss of Dompig ? Who was the president of Aruba ? 8-) 

Hmmm...I agree with Lala'a.  You need to read Simian and Shango all over again.  Especially the posts where Shango confirms the id of Dirty Hand as the Chief of Polis.  Are you saying Van Der Straaten and Natalee were romantically involved earlier in the week?  I believe that would be the first I have heard of that.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 02, 2007, 11:17:14 AM
Actually, Truthseeker, that post made me laugh out loud.  A warped sense of humor if there ever was one. (BTW that is me being nice...this time.) RES


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on August 02, 2007, 11:22:14 AM
Actually, Truthseeker, that post made me laugh out loud.  A warped sense of humor if there ever was one. (BTW that is me being nice...this time.) RES

I agree -- it made me lol. Almost as much as yoyo on the FP does  8-)

I'm not sure -- but I think that babelfish may translate 'fierljepper' as ChuckieRat :lol: :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 02, 2007, 12:08:47 PM
If anyone has any questions please feel free to leave them and either I or another smart monkey will try to answer them.  We need to get this thread up and running. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: fierljepper on August 02, 2007, 12:27:13 PM
All,

Appreciate your challenges, but my post was serious and inducing you a LOL is actually an unexpected side-effect  8)). P.S. FierlJepper is a national Dutch sport and concerns jumping over a ditch (= "sloot" in Dutch ... got it?).

Just read the few Simian quotes I summarized below from the dates that he wasn't that cryptic yet and tell me what you think. To me it's pretty obvious that he already in the beginning developed the theory that the jealous first boyfriend of Natalee murdered her and that they used J2K as the scape goats (how crappy that idea might sound, it's just what's in his head). This boy isn't very "fresh" either since he apparently has killed his own dogs and harassed some of his class mates. A few student friends covered up for him and told the police that he was with them at a party all night. His dad or someone else who is very influencial in the US helped in the cover-up and removed the body from the Island. It could have gone up very high up in the US to make a deal with Aruba to keep quiet about this since otherwise the US would...

How realistic this conspiracy story is, is less relevant. Shango also poses the rethoric question of why Joran would have been made so afraid in jail (via his father?) that he kept his mouth shut ('and bit his tongue'). I'd recommend you to read their conversation again with this story in mind, it seem to fit the cryptical stuff very well. Not running away from any critical comment.  :-D

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 2:59 pm
There’s not even a trace of her. At this point I am inclined to believe in a theory that has been going around on the island, but that I find difficult to post here.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 3:11 pm
What Countrymoon is saying is true. In Aruba we wonder how come WE do not get a chance to interrogate some chaperone or the group of kids that were swimming in front of the Holiday Inn until 6 in the morning.
The FBI has them quiet. The FBI is factfinding. The plan was outrageous.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:50 pm
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.
Simian Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
June 22nd, 2005 at 5:38 pm
Checkme…check this…and please recheck:
Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:55 pm
He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:01 pm
The first guy she met has all the motive. The second guy is scared sh*tless in a cell.
I have heard from Americans living in Aruba and and they think something completely different.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:04 pm
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was “there whole time”.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 10:34 am
He’s too afraid to confess.
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 10:36 am
The boy was picked up at 23:00 on Sunday at Mickey D’s. Sneaked out later. Was on time for school. Don’t mix things up.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 10:50 am
He’s afraid of the real killer. He has no way out.
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:03 am
1. No body; no crime.
2. A grown woman gone missing.
3. Één getuige is géén getuige. (One witness is no witness).
4. No suspect is allowed to testify against himself.
5. A confession will be thrown out of court if there is no evidence.

ONE OF THE WITNESSES IS NO WITNESS, HE IS A PERPETRATOR
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:06 am
The important “others” are the ones that supported the alibi.
No one has openly said there is no hope. Three cadaver dogs on the way. Sonar equipment to look for a body in as deep as 300 meters of water.
Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:37 pm
It’s horrible. He is a sociopath.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:44 pm
Killing his own dogs. Dumping them is the reservoir. Harassing his schoolmates.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not.
crs Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:17 pm
Sim - when you speak of this boy I think everyone thinks you are talking about Joran but your not are you - you are talking about this other individual.
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Of whom is the young Babylonian afraid?
Why won’t he talk? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 02, 2007, 02:48:05 PM
I have read Simian and Shango to death and I can tell you Simain was repeating what the ALE was guessing at.  Why do people keep saying "the jealous boyfriend from earlier in the week", yet no has any idea who that person was.  Not one picture, not one name.  Just some lame reference to a kid that liked Natalee back in the 9th grade which was a bogus and typical lie coming from the disinformation brigade.

The cover up began immediately and Simian was towing the line with ALE.

But for giggles, let's say there WAS a 'boyfriend' from earlier in the week.  Why has Joron or the Kalpoes ratted him out?  Why did the lie about dropping her off at the HI and don't give me any of that "they panicked" bs.  Why did they say she hit her head not only in that lie, but in the lies Joran was telling at school two days later when conveying yet a different story.  It would be easier to rat out the "boyfriend from earlier in the week" that to tell all these lies.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: fierljepper on August 02, 2007, 03:45:15 PM
I have read Simian and Shango to death and I can tell you Simain was repeating what the ALE was guessing at.  Why do people keep saying "the jealous boyfriend from earlier in the week", yet no has any idea who that person was.  Not one picture, not one name.  Just some lame reference to a kid that liked Natalee back in the 9th grade which was a bogus and typical lie coming from the disinformation brigade.

The cover up began immediately and Simian was towing the line with ALE.

Well Truthseeker, I guess the name that pops up in my mind is that of Jeremy Brown. He's often referred to as the ex-boyfriend of Natalee. He was in the CnC's that night as well and even danced with Natalee for a while. There's also a persisting rumor that he didn't fly back with the other students on May 30th (just for some more free giggles -> this is also stated in Joran's book...). There are also stories that this has been falsified by American Airlines.

There's also the boy who yelled at Natalee to get out off Deepak's car and the theory that the reason she actually got into the car was to make some guy jealous.

So, if Simian was repeating what the ALE was guessing at, that doesn't rule out that they were onto something. I actually like this Simian guy, since he at least provided some counterweight against the incredibly biased US media/forum hypes that were created around this case from day one (I know that I'm not "preaching for the choir" here at Scared Monkeys by saying this... 8)). The ALE weren't allowed any access into the rapidly closed MB student community (the maze). Only interviewed by the FBI. This to the frustration of the Aruban investigators.

I'm really surprised that Simian et al, had developed this hypothesis already so early in the game (3 weeks after she'd gone missing), when all the media attention was only focused on J2K and their lies. He also knows weird details about "killing his own dogs", which never has been brought in connection to Joran.

In any criminal case, it's very logical to first look for people with a motive as well as the opportunity to commit a crime. An ex-boyfriend typically is a likely suspect to have a motive (just read the newspapers) and I wouldn't be surprised that he actually wasn't at a party that night (covered by his friends), but spotted Joran and Natalee at the beach,followed them and killed Natalee after Joran had left (or when he was still there and was threatened by Jeremy so he fled the scene barefoot. However this would mean Joran is innocent and would provoke the question why Joran didn't "rat him out").

Quote
But for giggles, let's say there WAS a 'boyfriend' from earlier in the week.  Why has Joron or the Kalpoes ratted him out?  Why did the lie about dropping her off at the HI and don't give me any of that "they panicked" bs.  Why did they say she hit her head not only in that lie, but in the lies Joran was telling at school two days later when conveying yet a different story.  It would be easier to rat out the "boyfriend from earlier in the week" that to tell all these lies.

Indeed. Unless Joran and that ex-boyfriend, for what ever reason got rid of the body together after an encounter/fight on the beach. Joran has told best friend Freddy about "they" were at the beach and couldn't bring back Natalee from unconsciousness. I'm absolutely with you that Joran knows more about what happened that night at the beach and either he has something to conceal or he is threatened in such a way that he's not allowed to talk. There's no other explanation for so many lies. I've posted a theory at Scrux that Satish returned to the beach and that the Gardener indeed saw the three boys in the Deepak's car near the pond. I had only two people, but now we have three (i.c. Joran, + Jeremy, Satish and the expired body of Natalee). 

Anyway, not well thought out at all, just dropping random thoughts. So, please save the giggles. Need to think this through better first. :smile:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 02, 2007, 07:12:50 PM
fierljepper

As a little background could you tell me how long you have been studying the Shango and Simian verses?  Who do you think was Simian?  Any ideas?  Where was Shango posting from?  Any idea who he is?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Ree on August 02, 2007, 07:26:34 PM
OK, I'm new at at this Shango stuff (But I've been looking forward to doing the Tango for some time now).  The way I read it Shango told us directly who the boyfriend was when he said the 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.  Based upon that it has to either be Lorenzo or Paulus.  Was Paulus in the casino earlier in the week?  Could he have met Natalee and been jealous when he saw her flirting with (can't remember the boy's name.  We have a 302 where one of the girls says she thought Natalee would hook up with him, because she was flirting with him.)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Ree on August 02, 2007, 07:29:02 PM
When did the imposter show up?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: igsigs on August 02, 2007, 09:12:07 PM
I'm really surprised that Simian et al, had developed this hypothesis already so early in the game (3 weeks after she'd gone missing), when all the media attention was only focused on J2K and their lies. He also knows weird details about "killing his own dogs", which never has been brought in connection to Joran.
Greeting fierljepper! Welcome.

The *dog killing* rumor was introduced here at SM by arubagirl. She is a good source, IMO.

She said that the rumor was Joran killing his dog, blaming it on a neighbor boy, then admitting to it when confronted by the boy's parents. I will try and find the post if you are interested.

Bottom line > this rumor has been discussed extensively on all the blogs since summer 05, and has ALWAYS been connected to Joran.

 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Ree on August 02, 2007, 09:31:52 PM
I'm really surprised that Simian et al, had developed this hypothesis already so early in the game (3 weeks after she'd gone missing), when all the media attention was only focused on J2K and their lies. He also knows weird details about "killing his own dogs", which never has been brought in connection to Joran.
Greeting fierljepper! Welcome.

The *dog killing* rumor was introduced here at SM by arubagirl. She is a good source, IMO.

She said that the rumor was Joran killing his dog, blaming it on a neighbor boy, then admitting to it when confronted by the boy's parents. I will try and find the post if you are interested.

Bottom line > this rumor has been discussed extensively on all the blogs since summer 05, and has ALWAYS been connected to Joran.

 
I was just over reading some of Simian's posts.  He apparently did not know about the wiretap of Paulus and the 4AM pickup, because he states Paulus was arrested based upon the two witnesses who overheard 4 AM.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2007, 01:41:15 AM
Who is the 5th suspect? If you do any research on the FP or in the forum during this time, you learn that Simian is not the person that introduces the 5th suspect.  It is highly discussed by various Aruban posters as being Lorenzo.  I am still unclear.  But one thing is obvious Lorenzo is the one that was having the party.  Not a boyfriend that flew into Aruba.  Tell me how a total stranger to Aruba could have pulled off a last minute party?  Simian is referring to what everyone on Aruba has been talking about...the 5th person arrested.  It is either Paulus or Lorenzo. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2007, 01:47:30 AM
When did the imposter show up?

Are you talking about Simian's imposter, the supposed doppelganger?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2007, 01:49:39 AM
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:29 pm
I did not say an ex. Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.


Just in case anyone doubts me...even Simian tells you he is not speaking about an EX boyfriend. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on August 03, 2007, 01:55:49 AM
As Natalee only arrived on Aruba on Thursday sometime I still puzzle over the "earlier in the week" comments. 
All of the suppositions seem to relate to a much longer timescale than Thursday to Sunday - actually very early Monday morning when she was last seen in the company of the three goons.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on August 03, 2007, 01:57:49 AM
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:29 pm
I did not say an ex. Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.


Just in case anyone doubts me...even Simian tells you he is not speaking about an EX boyfriend. 

We have been over the fact that this could have been another blond girl mistaken as Natalee when remembered after the fact?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on August 03, 2007, 02:03:56 AM
And now for my third strike :

How difficult would it be to copy the recent posts we all made on Shango/Simian before the forum change and possibly even the great discussion in June when we had our top attendance, and load them into this thread.  There were some really good theories put forward and it would be great if they could be here as well.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Ree on August 03, 2007, 06:13:22 AM
Who is the 5th suspect? If you do any research on the FP or in the forum during this time, you learn that Simian is not the person that introduces the 5th suspect.  It is highly discussed by various Aruban posters as being Lorenzo.  I am still unclear.  But one thing is obvious Lorenzo is the one that was having the party.  Not a boyfriend that flew into Aruba.  Tell me how a total stranger to Aruba could have pulled off a last minute party?  Simian is referring to what everyone on Aruba has been talking about...the 5th person arrested.  It is either Paulus or Lorenzo. 
Tib,
I don't know who you were replying to, but I took the 5th suspect line from the Simian posts in the Simian thread.  I though Klass put them there.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Ree on August 03, 2007, 06:15:14 AM
When did the imposter show up?

Are you talking about Simian's imposter, the supposed doppelganger?

Yes.  I was reading through some of the Simian posts in the Simian thread and wasn't sure which ones to discount.  Seems to me those late June posts were somebody else.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2007, 10:31:11 AM
Ree
I will try to have a tango session tonight around 8 P.M. CDT.  If you are able to join me, please do.  I will try to help you as best I can.  The thing about the doppelganger (that is the correct term) is this...the only thing that makes them different from the original Simian as the location of the IP address.  That is something the only the Admin can elaborate on I suppose. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2007, 10:36:41 AM
Ree
There is a thread "Simian posts (real, not fake) on page two of the Natalee Holloway section.  Take a look at those, Klaas says those are all from the same IP address. They read a little differently than the others.


Tibro
If I were as smart as Klaas I would know how to find all those posts and bring them in here, but alas, I am not that smart.  My search and find abilities are poor at best. I would like to have those from the other night as well.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2007, 11:15:52 AM
I have read Simian and Shango to death and I can tell you Simain was repeating what the ALE was guessing at.  Why do people keep saying "the jealous boyfriend from earlier in the week", yet no has any idea who that person was.  Not one picture, not one name.  Just some lame reference to a kid that liked Natalee back in the 9th grade which was a bogus and typical lie coming from the disinformation brigade.

The cover up began immediately and Simian was towing the line with ALE.

Well Truthseeker, I guess the name that pops up in my mind is that of Jeremy Brown. He's often referred to as the ex-boyfriend of Natalee. He was in the CnC's that night as well and even danced with Natalee for a while. There's also a persisting rumor that he didn't fly back with the other students on May 30th (just for some more free giggles -> this is also stated in Joran's book...). There are also stories that this has been falsified by American Airlines.

There's also the boy who yelled at Natalee to get out off Deepak's car and the theory that the reason she actually got into the car was to make some guy jealous.

So, if Simian was repeating what the ALE was guessing at, that doesn't rule out that they were onto something. I actually like this Simian guy, since he at least provided some counterweight against the incredibly biased US media/forum hypes that were created around this case from day one (I know that I'm not "preaching for the choir" here at Scared Monkeys by saying this... 8)). The ALE weren't allowed any access into the rapidly closed MB student community (the maze). Only interviewed by the FBI. This to the frustration of the Aruban investigators.

I'm really surprised that Simian et al, had developed this hypothesis already so early in the game (3 weeks after she'd gone missing), when all the media attention was only focused on J2K and their lies. He also knows weird details about "killing his own dogs", which never has been brought in connection to Joran.

In any criminal case, it's very logical to first look for people with a motive as well as the opportunity to commit a crime. An ex-boyfriend typically is a likely suspect to have a motive (just read the newspapers) and I wouldn't be surprised that he actually wasn't at a party that night (covered by his friends), but spotted Joran and Natalee at the beach,followed them and killed Natalee after Joran had left (or when he was still there and was threatened by Jeremy so he fled the scene barefoot. However this would mean Joran is innocent and would provoke the question why Joran didn't "rat him out").

Quote
But for giggles, let's say there WAS a 'boyfriend' from earlier in the week.  Why has Joron or the Kalpoes ratted him out?  Why did the lie about dropping her off at the HI and don't give me any of that "they panicked" bs.  Why did they say she hit her head not only in that lie, but in the lies Joran was telling at school two days later when conveying yet a different story.  It would be easier to rat out the "boyfriend from earlier in the week" that to tell all these lies.

Indeed. Unless Joran and that ex-boyfriend, for what ever reason got rid of the body together after an encounter/fight on the beach. Joran has told best friend Freddy about "they" were at the beach and couldn't bring back Natalee from unconsciousness. I'm absolutely with you that Joran knows more about what happened that night at the beach and either he has something to conceal or he is threatened in such a way that he's not allowed to talk. There's no other explanation for so many lies. I've posted a theory at Scrux that Satish returned to the beach and that the Gardener indeed saw the three boys in the Deepak's car near the pond. I had only two people, but now we have three (i.c. Joran, + Jeremy, Satish and the expired body of Natalee). 

Anyway, not well thought out at all, just dropping random thoughts. So, please save the giggles. Need to think this through better first. :smile:

All this talk and reaching for any conclusion other than Joran began from day one in Aruba.  That is a fact that should not be overlooked when peering into the minds of ALE.  The went in like cowboys to arrest two innocent men even when they KNEW Joran and the Kalpoes had lied.  That's a huge problem for those using common sense when looking at this case.  You can complain about the American point of view, but you should not try to deny the obvious.  That is what leads to wild speculation.

You see, if Aruba had done the right thing and tried to find out what happened to Buddy Larson instead of treating his family the same way Natalee's was treated by showing little interest and then lying to them about seeing him all over the island, when in fact no one saw him, the praise Aruba crowd might have a more objective audience when they spin their stories.

The 'boyfriend from earlier in the week' was nothing more than doing anything they could to steer the investigation away from any possible connection to a killer living on Aruba.  That's it.  No evidence like Natalee was last seen with this guy, Natalee had an argument with this guy and he swore revenge, nothing...just hopeful speculation on the part of those in Aruba who tried to make the family believe 'she will show up in a crack house soon, so just go have yourself a drink'.  This is how it happened.  They were not interested in Joran and we know now that they should have been from day one.  She was with him that night and he lied about what he did.  If you look closer at other homicides you will see that most often the victim lost their life as a result of the actions of the last person they were known to be with.  A good detective would have immediately looked to Joran and the Kalpoes for answers.  Instead they accepted their lies even after Natalee's family showed them proof if the lie.

Your theory doesn't pass the test as far as I'm concerned.  But it will not surprise me if Aruba tries to push this lie just as they have tried to push so many others.

Your campaign will probably not win many converts here, but hey, you had to try.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Dayhiker on August 03, 2007, 11:56:39 AM
Agree truthseeker. Fierljepper, nice attempt to make Shango fit Julia Renfro's cock-haired lies. Bad news, they never factored into the investigation because they were all fabricated with no evidence to back up any of them. You might try fitting the verses together with what we do know and there are plenty of sources from ALE and the Dutch that indicate Joran, Paulus  and the Kalpoes are your perpetrators.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2007, 12:14:03 PM
Agree truthseeker. Fierljepper, nice attempt to make Shango fit Julia Renfro's cock-haired lies. Bad news, they never factored into the investigation because they were all fabricated with no evidence to back up any of them. You might try fitting the verses together with what we do know and there are plenty of sources from ALE and the Dutch that indicate Joran, Paulus  and the Kalpoes are your perpetrators.


Diana Emerencia - Aruban Attorney
Decatur Daily
August 31, 2005
 

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — ...... A third man was arrested with the Kalpoes but his lawyer said Monday that it was unrelated to Holloway's disappearance.

Freddy Alexander Zedan-Arambatzis, a friend of van der Sloot and the Kalpoes, was arrested on suspicion of having unspecified "physical contact" with a female minor, said his lawyer, Diana Emerencia.

Zedan-Arambatzis, 21, is also suspected of photographing the girl in "tempting poses" and showing the images to other people, Emerencia said.

The Kalpoe brothers and van der Sloot are also suspected of involvement in the incidents, which allegedly occurred before Holloway disappeared, she said.

Emerencia said Zedan-Arambatzis has denied having any physical contact with the girl or taking photos of her, but has admitted to being present when the photos were taken.

The prosecutor's office declined to comment on the case.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2007, 12:19:59 PM
Agree truthseeker. Fierljepper, nice attempt to make Shango fit Julia Renfro's cock-haired lies. Bad news, they never factored into the investigation because they were all fabricated with no evidence to back up any of them. You might try fitting the verses together with what we do know and there are plenty of sources from ALE and the Dutch that indicate Joran, Paulus  and the Kalpoes are your perpetrators.

Dayhike ... the following segment was taken from the New York lawsuit brought again Paulus and Joran van der Sloot by Beth Twitty and Dave Holloway.  Jane Doe's account is sooo similar to the the theories that abound in regard to the the Natalee Holloway case.

Is this one of the "twenty" times when nothing ever happened that Joran was referring to in the Greta interview?

Janet


HELEN LEJUEZ - ARUBAN ATTORNEY

Affidavid of C. Helen Lejuez

<snipped>

5. ... Miss Doe told me that she was coming forward at that time because she had had an experience that might be similar to Natalee's experience.

6. Miss Doe informed me that, one evening during early in 2005, she met Joran van der Sloot at Carlos'n Charlie's nightclub in Aruba.

7. Miss Doe told me that, over the course of the night, Joran van der Sloot gave her several alcoholic beverages. Miss Doe further stated that she believes that Joran van der Sloot placed some kind of narcotic substance in one of her drinks. The reason she believes she was drugged is that her level of intoxication was greatly disportionate to the amount of alcohol that she consumed.

8. Later that night, according to Miss Doe, Joran Van der Sloot brought Miss Doe back to his apartment, adjacent to his parent's house.

9. Miss Doe then told me that she was sexually assaulted by Joran van der Sloot as she faded in and out of conciousness, At no time did Miss Doe consent to any sexual contact with Joran van der Sloot.

10. Miss Doe advised me that, shortly after she was sexually assaulted by Joran van der Sloot, she learned that two other young women, ages 16 and 17, suffered attacks by Joran van der Sloot under similar circumstances.

11. Miss Doe told me that, in the aftermath of Joran van der Sloot's attack on Miss Doe, she was threatened and intimidated by Joran van der Sloot, his friends and others. She had been terrified to come forward and tell her story in Aruba. Miss Doe has not even advised her family of this attack.

12. If appropriate measures are taken to safeguard Miss Doe and her family, might be prepared to testify in New York, in the above-referenced action. For fear of her safety, Miss Doe is not willing.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2007, 12:36:33 PM
Agree truthseeker. Fierljepper, nice attempt to make Shango fit Julia Renfro's cock-haired lies. Bad news, they never factored into the investigation because they were all fabricated with no evidence to back up any of them. You might try fitting the verses together with what we do know and there are plenty of sources from ALE and the Dutch that indicate Joran, Paulus  and the Kalpoes are your perpetrators.

Fierljepper ... rather than putting together a theory on a riddle put forth by an unknown blogger by the name of Shango ... an unknown blogger whose agenda is unknown ... I suggest that you attempt to create a scenario on the words of those whose official positions dictated they knew exactly what they were talking about.

Janet


ARUBAN AUTHORITIES IMPLICATE MAIN SUSPECTS IN NATALEE HOLLOW CASE

http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/2007/07/aruban-authorities-implicate-main.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on August 03, 2007, 02:27:06 PM
Who is the 5th suspect? If you do any research on the FP or in the forum during this time, you learn that Simian is not the person that introduces the 5th suspect.  It is highly discussed by various Aruban posters as being Lorenzo.  I am still unclear.  But one thing is obvious Lorenzo is the one that was having the party.  Not a boyfriend that flew into Aruba.  Tell me how a total stranger to Aruba could have pulled off a last minute party?  Simian is referring to what everyone on Aruba has been talking about...the 5th person arrested.  It is either Paulus or Lorenzo. 



Joran van der Sloot (search) and his friends Deepak and Satish Kalpoe are being held under suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder.

A fourth man, party boat DJ Steve Croes, is being held under the same conditions.

The fifth man, Paul van der Sloot (search) — the father of 17-year-old Joran — was being held on suspicion of complicity to pre-meditated murder, complicity to kidnapping and murder and kidnapping Under the Aruban system, complicity is a lesser charge.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160654,00.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: fierljepper on August 03, 2007, 02:58:53 PM
fierljepper

As a little background could you tell me how long you have been studying the Shango and Simian verses?  Who do you think was Simian?  Any ideas?  Where was Shango posting from?  Any idea who he is?

I'm a complete newbie on Shango and Symbian. My first encounter actually was this topic at Scared Monkeys and the provocative question from Klaas in the opening post.

So, I did a search on Google and found the website I mentioned before. Gave it a fresh look and read it three times and then I'd thought it made sense and did my post.

No idea who Simian is, but very sure that he's a pretty bright guy and was extremely close to the investigation. He somewhere says that he knows the prison from the inside (and I don't mean as a prisoner...) and that he had a tour when he was inaugurated. That really sounds like a legal guy, maybe high up in the DA office or a partner at a law firm. Haven't pinged Shango neither did I check his IP address or its consistent use. My guess is that he's from Aruba (based on the strong way he defends Aruba and pushes back on all the American biased non-sense he reads from his fellow posters (he was right on many points, f.i. about Aruba being an alleged transfer country for selling American girls to Latin America.)

I'm a relative newbie on J2K as well. Only got dragged into it after watching the June 9th Jensen show in NL. Then bought the book and read it a couple of times. Then I started posting a J2K theory at Scrux that provoked quite some debate... And since then my head hasn't stopped spinning and I can tell you one scary thing about this mindboggling case...: The Eagles where absolutely right in Hotel California:

You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave... :shock:

Was that the answer you were looking for? :)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: fierljepper on August 03, 2007, 03:15:33 PM
I'm really surprised that Simian et al, had developed this hypothesis already so early in the game (3 weeks after she'd gone missing), when all the media attention was only focused on J2K and their lies. He also knows weird details about "killing his own dogs", which never has been brought in connection to Joran.
Greeting fierljepper! Welcome.

The *dog killing* rumor was introduced here at SM by arubagirl. She is a good source, IMO.

She said that the rumor was Joran killing his dog, blaming it on a neighbor boy, then admitting to it when confronted by the boy's parents. I will try and find the post if you are interested.

Bottom line > this rumor has been discussed extensively on all the blogs since summer 05, and has ALWAYS been connected to Joran.

Hi Igsigs,

Same names pop on different forums. :P I find it actually pretty amazing how alive this case has been kept even after two years. There's something very special about this particular story. It's almost like reading a "whodunnit" thriller where the writer has put you on the wrong foot during 300 pages of subtle clues and you're now desperately waiting for the last page. Unfortunately we don't have the last page (yet!).

If the rumor was introduced by somebody on a forum, then I'm very interested to see that a particular post and its date. The first time Simian makes the reference to the dogs is June 24th so their at least should be a logical time sequence to get an indication of who quoted who.

Quote
Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:44 pm
Killing his own dogs. Dumping them is the reservoir. Harassing his schoolmates.


Please note that also refers to harassing his schoolmates. Again this fact also is not attributed to Joran and I've not seen any records/reports on this (he did harass his little brother and broke his SIM-card, pushed a friend through a shop window, he intervened by throwing a "choller" of the bridge and he had smashed a couple or car windows at a breaking-up yard)

 :cool:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: fierljepper on August 03, 2007, 06:42:08 PM
Who is the 5th suspect? If you do any research on the FP or in the forum during this time, you learn that Simian is not the person that introduces the 5th suspect.  It is highly discussed by various Aruban posters as being Lorenzo.  I am still unclear.  But one thing is obvious Lorenzo is the one that was having the party.  Not a boyfriend that flew into Aruba.  Tell me how a total stranger to Aruba could have pulled off a last minute party?  Simian is referring to what everyone on Aruba has been talking about...the 5th person arrested.  It is either Paulus or Lorenzo. 

You're right, Lala'sMom. Simian clearly doesn't refer to an ex-boyfriend, so it must have been somebody she met during her stay on Aruba (whether it was a full week or not). Simian summarizes it as follows:

Quote
Checkme…check this…and please recheck:
Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

So, suppose the first boyfriend is Lorenzo who has been very jealous with the second boyfriend i.c. Joran. Especially the "some friends say they were at home with him" as the alibi, is a further indication that the party was at somebody's house, i.c. the host's place at Aruba.

BTW, you have to be careful with the word "arrested". Simian has never used this qualification in any of his posts. It's perfectly possible to just hear people out, f.i. as a witness or to obtain circumstantial evidence. No arrests are needed for this and outsiders could easily qualify these people entering the police station as "suspects". This is supported by Kermit's recent August 1 post at this forum:

Quote
6/16/05-----Lorenzo Van Rijn was brought in by Aruban police for questioning but was not held. According to Tito, he was considered a possible suspect at that time.

Interesting bloke this Lorenzo van Rijn. His father (Paul) apparently committed suicide a few years ago (after seeing a maid and child drown in is pool) and allegedly Lorenzo involved in "illegal afterhours parties" and lived in a big house on the Jara road. Seems that the police have searched his house, found a lot of drugs (and dogs...) and arrested him. Also there's the persistent rumor that he's a half brother of Joran.

It's therefore very likely that Simian refers to a party at Lorenzo's house.

Let's give it a try...

Lorenzo was at a party with a couple of MB students, but Natalee and Joran were there as well. How did they get there? The Kalpoe's indeed have dropped off Joran and Natalee at the beach near the Marriott, N+J then walked back towards the HI and encountered some MB-student who told them about being invited to the late-hour party at Lorenzo's. They all went there by a car (don't know which one). They arrived at Lorenzo's place and started experimenting with drugs. Suddenly Natalee gets very sick and collapses and doesn't recover. This is very bad news for the responsible MB-seniors and they panick. They all jump in the car and take Natalee and drive back to the Holiday Inn.

Then a MB student calles his influential dad and explains him the "situation". It's very clear that they can't visit a local doctor, since the embarassing story immediately leaks out and in the end this culminated in the US sending in the medjet with a doctor and nurse to smuggle the her discretely out of Aruba and to cover up this scandal. Beth was sadly not informed, but Jug knew what really happened and kept her in the dark all the time.

Joran was dropped off near the McDonald's on their way back to the HI, but then it already started to become clear that Natalee was dead. They now needed a damned good alibi and Joran, pathological lier as he is, proposed to take the role of "having left her passed out on the beach." He then made the famous 2:26-2:34 phone call to Deepak and told him that he was walking home. He added the shoe story to that to enforce his lie "that he left them on the beach". The truth is that he wore them at that time and actually never lost them all. Since he had told Deepak this lie in the call, the only subsequent lie he could add was to try to collude with the K2's on the "we just dropped her off at the HI" (also a perfect alibi for all). All his next lies needed to build on Deepak's stated recording of the 2:26 call that he has never changed. 

The MB-students passed the HI but didn't dare to go in yet, since they needed to get their stories straight and also to hide the body (f.i. in the trunk). They drove a bit further North to the pond area and parked their car on a dirst road to buy some time to think. Suddenly they were caught in the headlights of a mini-van around 2:40-2:50, they immediately covered their face, leaned back or dove back in the backseat (so I guess there were 3 MB students involved).

Joran trapped himself in his first lie to Deepak and ended up in jail (as the lamb who bit his tongue), "the other side of the pond" (i.e. the MB students back in the US) where home and well protected by lawyers and Lorenzo ("the 5th suspect") kept (or was kept) completely out this of this since he had an "airtight alibi" (provide by Joran who lied that he was on the beach with Natalee and at the same time Lorenzo said that he was with the MB-students at a party). The K2's are innocent. Deepak was on computer and Satish was asleep.

The perfect catch-22-stew, no body, no evidence and therefore all the perpetrators running around free protected by their parents and lawyers...

To make the story a bit stronger based on rumors:
If it is true that Paulus van der Sloot is also Lorenzo's real biological father, he had two sons involved in a criminal activity therefore a big stake in the ground to put all his efforts on protecting both them. He told Joran to keep quiet and told him he knew that the body had disappeared from the island, so "no body, no case" and he only had to "bite his tongue" until his release.

And to weaken the story based on available facts...:
If the K2's dropped Joran off around 1:40-1:50, then there never would have been sufficient time to drive to and from the Jara road, to make the 2:26 call near the McDonalds. Is there any indication that the party really was held at Lorenzo's Jara road house? Or was there maybe another place possible nearer by?

I read somewhere that Klaas recently wondered why we know so little about this 'Lorenzo van Rijn' character...  ...is it because he's seen as the weakest link in this fragile plot and is therefore well protected from above? :cool:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on August 03, 2007, 06:52:10 PM
Truthseeker2 -- I've been thinking abput your post for a few days. I was always curious about the use of the word 'lordship' as well.

I think that the 'key' refers to evidence.

Either the evidence that the 'chain of control' was able to destroy. Or contaminate. Or fabricate (like the cleaning fluid and chocolate).

They had something on either Joran or papa sweat.

I also think that papa sloot used the 'after 10 at night' to make Joran's confession inadmissable. He knows his way around the palace.

I know I didn't help much (sorry -- work is kicking my but these days) but if you read your post with those thoughts in mind, several people pop up in my mind as possibilities.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: fierljepper on August 03, 2007, 07:13:14 PM
Agree truthseeker. Fierljepper, nice attempt to make Shango fit Julia Renfro's cock-haired lies. Bad news, they never factored into the investigation because they were all fabricated with no evidence to back up any of them. You might try fitting the verses together with what we do know and there are plenty of sources from ALE and the Dutch that indicate Joran, Paulus  and the Kalpoes are your perpetrators.

Quote
Your campaign will probably not win many converts here, but hey, you had to try.

Come on, guys. That's not fair. I'm not running a 'campaign', I'm just keeping all options open and testing a hypothesis. Why these emotional responses? Why not just convince me with arguments?

I've spent since June 9th (the Jensen show) on trying to conceive of a plausible scenarios based on the available evidence that only involves J2K + maybe Paulus. Jon (from Scrux) has made a good analysis and reflected that in his essay. But like with many on the web, there seems to be a natural inclination that when you get stuck, you'd start to open up your mind for other scenarios. 

For what it's worth, my first reaction on the Jenfro story is here:

http://www.scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3054#3054 (http://www.scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3054#3054)

I still believe it's a pretty nuanced view, although it also intends to hold up the mirror for those who believe that no other scenario's then "J2K did it" and "Aruba is a backward, corrupt and cheating country" exist. I'm from the Netherlands and actually don't feel constraints in considering other any scenario, even if my country would be embarassed by it.

Awareness of a bias is the first step... :wink:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on August 03, 2007, 07:31:19 PM
fierljepper - I have enjoyed reading your posts at Scrux!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on August 03, 2007, 07:37:53 PM
Early chats from Amigoe (out of Curacau)

http://tinyurl.com/3aekoj



osted 20. July 2005 01:01 PM                               
 
Beste mensen,

Van betrouwbare bronnen heb ik begrepen dat er op die tape de volgende dingen te vinden waren:

3 blonde haren (volgens DNA van Holloway)
7 zwarte haren(sluik haar, 2 verschillende eigenaren, eogenaren onbekend)
2 blonde haren (onbekend)
6 spermacellen (vooralsnog onbekend)
restanten van wat "lichaamsvocht" zou zijn geweest (bevestigd Holloway)
1 fragment roest (waarschijnlijk van een anker)
1 stukje vis
1 onderlegger met de text: "Ca....s & .har...s"
wat zand

Op basis hiervan denkt de politie de verdwijning spoedig te kunnen oplossen.

Best men

Of trustworthy sources have I understood that there on that tape the next things to find were:,. 

3 blond hairs (according to DNA of Holloway)
7 black hairs (straight her, 2 different owners, eogenaren strangely)
2 blond hairs (strangely)
6 sperm cells (as yet strangely)
 remainders of what "bodies liquid" would be been rust (affirmed Holloway)
1 fragment (probably of an anchor)
1 stiff fish
1 onderlegger with the text: “Ca....s & .har...s" what sand

On basis of this thinks to can the police the disappearance shortly solve





Beste Milln,

Ik heb een vriend bij de politie op Aruba die nauw verbonden is met het onderzoek. Hij heeft mij dat verteld.
Het zal wel waar zijn.
Ik heb hem weer even gebeld, en wat Lot zegt is gewoon onzin. De sleutels (huissleutels geen autosleutels) van ene J v.d. S zijn niet op de tape gevonden maar op het strand bij Marriot.
En van de met bloed geschreven bericht: "Jay did it" welk op een kauwgom papiertje is gevonden is al bewezen dat die met ezelsbloed is geschreven.
Je moet dus niet alles geloven wat je hoort.


I have a friend at the police on Aruba that narrow agreements is with the investigation.  He has me that told.  It will well where are.  I have prevent rung him just, and what Fate usual nonsense is says.  The keys (house key no car keys) of a J v. d.  S have not been found on the tape but on the beach by Marriot.  And of the with blood written message:  "Jay did it" which on a chewing gum paper has been found already has been proved that that with asses blood have been written.  You must not believe hears thus everything what you.


posted 20. July 2005 02:39 PM         


Some of us believe there was evidence.  There either still is or it has been covered up.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on August 03, 2007, 07:40:58 PM
Anyway, remember John Merryweather, evil incarnate and my mom's cousin? He has a son, named Herbert (Herbie) Merryweather. Herbert is married and has a son, but I don't know his name.
The mother of this son came to talk to my mom day before yesterday and it turns out that her son is a classmate of Joran's.
So, got it, grandson Merryweather is Joran's classmate. Turns out that that grandson and mom had a major clash with Joran some time before, because Joran accused grandson of killing Joran's dog and throwing it in Moko Dam (place where TX ES also searched), however, the mother threatened to go the cops to make a complaint against Joran, and the Joran confessed to killing his own dog.
I'm not kidding. Not even a little bit.
Also, the morning after NH disappeared, Joran came with a big bruise on his face and was sleeping in class and could only be woken up when he was pelted with (note?)books.
07/12/2005 12:07 AM


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on August 03, 2007, 08:14:07 PM
From Peter DeVries  (makes sense to me):

PRdVries: it’s very difficult to speculate… Several scenario’s could have happened… The only thing I do is putting facts in the right order… But it’s clear Joran was the last one with Nathalee, he’s lied on some very crucial points and that shows you have something to hide. But what exactly happened at this point is pure speculation. But what I find very suspicious is the fact he lied about dropping her at the hotel. Because if you realy don’t know what happened to her, you have to take into account that f.i. three hours later she shows up after having spent the rest of the night somewhere else; in that situation the story of Joran wouldn’t have fit anylonger so it’s clear he knew she wouldn’t show up again.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=603.0


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2007, 08:29:12 PM



Thanks buckeye.  The tango is going to be later tonight.  I have company...I don't know why they didn't get the memo. RES


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on August 03, 2007, 08:30:43 PM
Joran's 8/08/05 statement.  Can be read in Dutch.

The suspect has represented that he has explained that he and the missing girl walked a bit. And that a declaration is there of someone who has seen the car of Deepak Kalpoe on, some hundreds of meters away from the fisherman’s hut.  He is asked for the logic of and an other one and is asked if he can explain why he then with the other boys who were place. (? Not sure what this paragraph is trying to say)

He was informed once again that there are direct friends that have explained that he has crapped on friends and asked them to lie about sexual activities with a girlfriend of his friends. These boys say that he takes them always in the maling (?) and manipulates.
He was faced once again with the declaration of the girl Martina, who was given something to drink, offered at the sexual community with him and as a result of which her lips tingled.The suspect did not react.


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=385.0


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on August 03, 2007, 08:30:53 PM



Thanks buckeye.  The tango is going to be later tonight.  I have company...I don't know why they didn't get the memo. RES

Hi Lala's I'd like to come if you know what time it will be.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2007, 09:36:24 PM
Is this thread sticky?  Just curious.  Anyway, what should we start with? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on August 03, 2007, 09:39:40 PM
Is this thread sticky?  Just curious.  Anyway, what should we start with? 
Yes, it's a sticky  :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2007, 09:41:33 PM
It seems we are still arguing the 5th suspect.  Depends on whom you listen to as to the identity.  For any new posters reading, I will try to rehash this topic.  Anyone feel free to lead in a new direction.  I am  open to any ideas.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2007, 09:42:03 PM
Is this thread sticky?  Just curious.  Anyway, what should we start with? 
Yes, it's a sticky  :lol:

 :lol: 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2007, 10:04:36 PM
Thought some might like to read some of these about Lorenzo from AG.
 

Natalee Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE) / Natalee Breaking News Archive / RBN # 12 - 6/19 - 6/20/05
on: June 19, 2005, 09:18:35 PM
Started by Catriana, Message by arubagirl
Relevance: 30.6%
Lorenzo is a guy that got held in for questioning.

Remember the whole Lorenzo basement thing is a R-U-M-O-R.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2007, 10:05:34 PM


Natalee Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE) / Natalee Breaking News Archive / RBN #20 - 6/23/05 Evening
on: June 23, 2005, 06:43:26 PM
Started by Catriana, Message by arubagirl
Relevance: 34.4%
saninmytoes, RUMOR, I repeat, RUMOR has it that Lorenzo van Rijn may have NH in his house due to his being v/d Sloots bastard son.

Yes, I know. Crazy.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2007, 10:09:20 PM
1
 Natalee Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE) / Natalee Breaking News Archive / RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS # 10
on: June 18, 2005, 08:17:19 PM
 Message by americaninaruba
Quote from: "DJTAYLOR"
Quote from: "Ting"
If I understand correctly, Lorenzo is said to be the son of Paulus van der Sloot by a woman not his wife. Does anyone know if this relationship is acknowledged? And has Mr. van der Sloot been involved in the life of this son? Who is the mother, and does she live in Aruba?

BUT i thought they said his dad killed himself or somthing, my god ahahahahah what a confusion huh?   :0)


Lorenzos father (Van Geijn) committed suicicede like 3 or 4 eyars ago the "rumor" that hes VDSLoots soon is just that...A RRUMOR



 Natalee Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE) / Natalee Breaking News Archive / RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS # 6
on: June 17, 2005, 07:42:03 AM
Message by americaninaruba

Quote from: "Professor"
To American in Aruba: Are you sure about that identity? Fox News says he has the initials SGC and is the son of a prominent member of the judiciary. How can that be, if his father committed suicide?


OK im sosorry for mixign this up...its just i have liek 30 people on my back at the same time and im at work answerign the phone! LOl
ok the Boy taht hsi father commited suicide (Lorenzo is his name) he was arrrested YESTERDAY...the one of TODAY (SGC) i have not been confirmed a name yet...but i dont know who his parents are


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 03, 2007, 10:10:16 PM
Well, I guess no one is interested right now.  I will check back later.  I need to rest my feet.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Ree on August 03, 2007, 10:18:49 PM
Well, I guess no one is interested right now.  I will check back later.  I need to rest my feet.
I'm in.  Sorry, I was trying to catch up reading the LCD and over at BFN.  They've been doing a little Tango over there as well.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2007, 10:25:26 PM

<snipped>

No idea who Simian is, but very sure that he's a pretty bright guy and was extremely close to the investigation. He somewhere says that he knows the prison from the inside (and I don't mean as a prisoner...) and that he had a tour when he was inaugurated. That really sounds like a legal guy, maybe high up in the DA office or a partner at a law firm. Haven't pinged Shango neither did I check his IP address or its consistent use. My guess is that he's from Aruba (based on the strong way he defends Aruba and pushes back on all the American biased non-sense he reads from his fellow posters (he was right on many points, f.i. about Aruba being an alleged transfer country for selling American girls to Latin America.)

<snipped>

Was that the answer you were looking for? :)


ALL THE AMERICAN BIASED NON-SENSE!!!!

Yes I found the answer "I" was looking for regarding your agenda.

Janet


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2007, 10:36:37 PM
Agree truthseeker. Fierljepper, nice attempt to make Shango fit Julia Renfro's cock-haired lies. Bad news, they never factored into the investigation because they were all fabricated with no evidence to back up any of them. You might try fitting the verses together with what we do know and there are plenty of sources from ALE and the Dutch that indicate Joran, Paulus  and the Kalpoes are your perpetrators.

Quote
Your campaign will probably not win many converts here, but hey, you had to try.

Come on, guys. That's not fair. I'm not running a 'campaign', I'm just keeping all options open and testing a hypothesis. Why these emotional responses? Why not just convince me with arguments?

I've spent since June 9th (the Jensen show) on trying to conceive of a plausible scenarios based on the available evidence that only involves J2K + maybe Paulus. Jon (from Scrux) has made a good analysis and reflected that in his essay. But like with many on the web, there seems to be a natural inclination that when you get stuck, you'd start to open up your mind for other scenarios. 

For what it's worth, my first reaction on the Jenfro story is here:

http://www.scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3054#3054 (http://www.scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3054#3054)

I still believe it's a pretty nuanced view, although it also intends to hold up the mirror for those who believe that no other scenario's then "J2K did it" and "Aruba is a backward, corrupt and cheating country" exist. I'm from the Netherlands and actually don't feel constraints in considering other any scenario, even if my country would be embarassed by it.

Awareness of a bias is the first step... :wink:

fierljepper,

The biggest problem I have with your MB kids met up with Nat and J to go to Lorenzo's party where she died and they all agreed not to tell is that:

1. Joran and K2's lied right off the bat about the HI.  That never happened and they admitted it later.  No reason to lie and say she fell and hit her head if she had died of a drug overdose.

2. Once they were caught in the lie I do not believe Joran would sit in jail that long and involve his entire family just to protect some kids from MB.  That makes absolutely no sense to me.

3. According to Joran's book translation, Van Der Straten told Joran he would make sure he didn't have to go to prison and would go to a mental hospital instead.  Yet Joran doesn't say anything about the MB kids then or now.  Doesn't make sense especially since the island he says he loves is taking a big hit.

These points are just off the top of my head and I know I can provide you with even more if I spent more time on it.

And you should know...I never create a post based on emotion.  Sorry to disappoint you there, but I am an analyst by profession and I prefer to deal in facts and real possiblities.  To be totally truthful with you, two years ago I was tempted to believe the MB students were more involved than we were being told.  But, after two years of proven lies coming from Aruba I no longer feel that is the case.  Nor am I biased.  I have been following this since the very beginning and have kept up with the details.  For you to assume that I am biased may just be a bias that you have yourself.  Is that possible as well?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Ree on August 03, 2007, 10:41:02 PM
Agree truthseeker. Fierljepper, nice attempt to make Shango fit Julia Renfro's cock-haired lies. Bad news, they never factored into the investigation because they were all fabricated with no evidence to back up any of them. You might try fitting the verses together with what we do know and there are plenty of sources from ALE and the Dutch that indicate Joran, Paulus  and the Kalpoes are your perpetrators.

Quote
Your campaign will probably not win many converts here, but hey, you had to try.

Come on, guys. That's not fair. I'm not running a 'campaign', I'm just keeping all options open and testing a hypothesis. Why these emotional responses? Why not just convince me with arguments?

I've spent since June 9th (the Jensen show) on trying to conceive of a plausible scenarios based on the available evidence that only involves J2K + maybe Paulus. Jon (from Scrux) has made a good analysis and reflected that in his essay. But like with many on the web, there seems to be a natural inclination that when you get stuck, you'd start to open up your mind for other scenarios. 

For what it's worth, my first reaction on the Jenfro story is here:

http://www.scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3054#3054 (http://www.scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3054#3054)

I still believe it's a pretty nuanced view, although it also intends to hold up the mirror for those who believe that no other scenario's then "J2K did it" and "Aruba is a backward, corrupt and cheating country" exist. I'm from the Netherlands and actually don't feel constraints in considering other any scenario, even if my country would be embarassed by it.

Awareness of a bias is the first step... :wink:
I did go back and read your posts at Scrux.  You contend that Beth went to Aruba with a stong bias about what a backward place it is.  Other than an obvious anti-American bias, what do you base that on?  What facts bring you to the conclusion that most Western countries, especially the US are biased against other countries systems?  While it is only natural for a citizen of any country to proclaim theirs the best, what makes this rise to a stong bias against Aruba.  Beth apparently did not feel so strongly that Aruba was a backward third world county, that she prevented her daughter from going.  Perhaps you need to look in the mirror before you are pointing fingers at bias.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2007, 10:45:15 PM
Well, I guess no one is interested right now.  I will check back later.  I need to rest my feet.

Sorry I was late.  I had a commitment I needed to keep.  I never stand my granson up!  He's in bed now....so Tango at will!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on August 03, 2007, 10:57:28 PM
Not Shango/Simian but an interresting post from back in April 2006 on the front page of SM (the forum was down at the time):


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Loesge1.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2007, 11:03:55 PM
Not Shango/Simian but an interresting post from back in April 2006 on the front page of SM (the forum was down at the time):


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Loesge1.jpg)


Very interesting posts, Klaas.  Do we know where those posts came from?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Did the babylonians like to make movies?
From the tears, a new river will spring forth….


Not the Lamb, not the Shivas, but... the babylonians


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2007, 11:12:54 PM
Agree truthseeker. Fierljepper, nice attempt to make Shango fit Julia Renfro's cock-haired lies. Bad news, they never factored into the investigation because they were all fabricated with no evidence to back up any of them. You might try fitting the verses together with what we do know and there are plenty of sources from ALE and the Dutch that indicate Joran, Paulus  and the Kalpoes are your perpetrators.

Quote
Your campaign will probably not win many converts here, but hey, you had to try.

Come on, guys. That's not fair. I'm not running a 'campaign', I'm just keeping all options open and testing a hypothesis. Why these emotional responses? Why not just convince me with arguments?

I've spent since June 9th (the Jensen show) on trying to conceive of a plausible scenarios based on the available evidence that only involves J2K + maybe Paulus. Jon (from Scrux) has made a good analysis and reflected that in his essay. But like with many on the web, there seems to be a natural inclination that when you get stuck, you'd start to open up your mind for other scenarios. 

For what it's worth, my first reaction on the Jenfro story is here:

http://www.scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3054#3054 (http://www.scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3054#3054)

I still believe it's a pretty nuanced view, although it also intends to hold up the mirror for those who believe that no other scenario's then "J2K did it" and "Aruba is a backward, corrupt and cheating country" exist. I'm from the Netherlands and actually don't feel constraints in considering other any scenario, even if my country would be embarassed by it.

Awareness of a bias is the first step... :wink:

fierljepper,

The biggest problem I have with your MB kids met up with Nat and J to go to Lorenzo's party where she died and they all agreed not to tell is that:

1. Joran and K2's lied right off the bat about the HI.  That never happened and they admitted it later.  No reason to lie and say she fell and hit her head if she had died of a drug overdose.

2. Once they were caught in the lie I do not believe Joran would sit in jail that long and involve his entire family just to protect some kids from MB.  That makes absolutely no sense to me.

3. According to Joran's book translation, Van Der Straten told Joran he would make sure he didn't have to go to prison and would go to a mental hospital instead.  Yet Joran doesn't say anything about the MB kids then or now.  Doesn't make sense especially since the island he says he loves is taking a big hit.

These points are just off the top of my head and I know I can provide you with even more if I spent more time on it.

And you should know...I never create a post based on emotion.  Sorry to disappoint you there, but I am an analyst by profession and I prefer to deal in facts and real possiblities.  To be totally truthful with you, two years ago I was tempted to believe the MB students were more involved than we were being told.  But, after two years of proven lies coming from Aruba I no longer feel that is the case.  Nor am I biased.  I have been following this since the very beginning and have kept up with the details.  For you to assume that I am biased may just be a bias that you have yourself.  Is that possible as well?

Truthseeker ... my sentiments exactly.  Thank you very much.

I promised myself one year ago that I would never again debate with trolls who have an obvious Aruban agenda to distance Paulus and Joran from implication in the events encompassing the morning when Natalee Holloway went missing by shifting the focus of blame on Natalee, Beth, MB students, FBI, Jossy and the American media.  I broke my promise today but ... it will never happened again.

Janet


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 03, 2007, 11:24:04 PM

Truthseeker ... my sentiments exactly.  Thank you very much.

I promised myself one year ago that I would never again debate with trolls who have an obvious Aruban agenda to distance Paulus and Joran from implication in the events encompassing the morning when Natalee Holloway went missing by shifting the focus of blame on Natalee, Beth, MB students, FBI, Jossy and the American media.  I broke my promise today but ... it will never happened again.

Janet


Janet,
Idon't know if this guy is a troll or if he really believes what he is saying.  Either way, the facts so far do not support the MB kids being involved in what happened to Natalee after she left CnC's in the early morning hours of 5/30/05.  I suppose they can speculate all they want, but it was Joran and the Kalpoes that Natalee was last seen with and those guys lied from the very beginning.  We have seen their PV's and Joran has lied some many times in just the PV's we've seen.  No telling what lies he told in the ones we haven't seen.

There is not a single person that can convince me that Joran lied to cover for a tourist.  That doesn't make any sense what so ever.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on August 03, 2007, 11:24:26 PM
TS - no, we don't know right now anything about the Loesge poster.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 03, 2007, 11:48:57 PM
I recognize from fierljepper words that he is upholding an Aruban agenda that distances Joran and Paulus from implication and ... shifts the focus of blame on Natalee and the MB students.  Something akin to Julia, Angela and many posters who have up until today posted only on other sites.

Klaas ... I wasted precious time playing the troll game on CTV and BFN and ... I will not go back there.  It takes away from my objective ... Justice for Natalee.

I determined through countless hours of research that a corrupt investigation in Aruban is denying justice to an eighteen year old American citizens who went missing on Aruban soil under suspicious circumstances.  I determined through countless hours of research that a corrupt investigation is protecting the main suspects from taking responsibility for their role in the events encompassing the morning when Natalee Holloway went missing.  I determined through countless hours of research that a corrupt investigation has been putting the family of Natalee Holloway through a H--- on Earth for over two years.  These determinations are the starting points where my dialoging on the Natalee Holloway case begins. 

Janet 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 04, 2007, 12:13:40 AM
Not Shango/Simian but an interresting post from back in April 2006 on the front page of SM (the forum was down at the time):


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Loesge1.jpg)



Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA [/i]


Where is this house supposed to be located?  Could it be Lorenzo's?  Was there a party there?  This is interesting for sure.  This is more in line with Shango than Simian. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 04, 2007, 12:17:28 AM
I recognize from fierljepper words that he is upholding an Aruban agenda that distances Joran and Paulus from implication and ... shifts the focus of blame on Natalee and the MB students.  Something akin to Julia, Angela and many posters who have up until today posted only on other sites.

Klaas ... I wasted precious time playing the troll game on CTV and BFN and ... I will not go back there.  It takes away from my objective ... Justice for Natalee.

I determined through countless hours of research that a corrupt investigation in Aruban is denying justice to an eighteen year old American citizens who went missing on Aruban soil under suspicious circumstances.  I determined through countless hours of research that a corrupt investigation is protecting the main suspects from taking responsibility for their role in the events encompassing the morning when Natalee Holloway went missing.  I determined through countless hours of research that a corrupt investigation has been putting the family of Natalee Holloway through a H--- on Earth for over two years.  These determinations are the starting points where my dialoging on the Natalee Holloway case begins. 

Janet 

Even trolls serve a purpose.  They cause us to recheck our ideas and try to verify where we can.  It's what they don't understand.  As long as they are polite, I don't mind them too much.  I just keep my barfdoll handy.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on August 04, 2007, 12:29:03 AM

Amsterdam Manor is gold........maybe this was the golden maze. My feeling is there has to be a particular place, probably a hotel that tourists in general are taken when found passed out, drunk on the beach, or wherever until they can sleep it off. Maybe they brought Natalee to this place?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 12:29:14 AM
Not Shango/Simian but an interresting post from back in April 2006 on the front page of SM (the forum was down at the time):


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Loesge1.jpg)



Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA [/i]


Where is this house supposed to be located?  Could it be Lorenzo's?  Was there a party there?  This is interesting for sure.  This is more in line with Shango than Simian. 

Given that Shango made this post as all of the posters were discussing Lorenzo makes me think that it does have something to do with him. Isn't his house on a dirt road?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 04, 2007, 12:29:40 AM
The Wyndham.  How many times have we looked at those photos inside that hotel room and said that's the Wyndham?  Those keys that Deepak had. ( I know someone said he had some type of key in hi pocket). The guards...the guards...the photo of the black team...even Simian mentions them.  Merian Ernest mentions Bill's lodgings.  Tylergal always said there was a connection.   She was picked out in the casino by Paulus and obtained by Joran.  For his trouble he gets to sample the merchandise, but it didn't go as planned.  Could they really have left her on the beach to be taken?  Taken by those that should protect her?  I actually liked it better when all I thought about was Shango and his crazy riddles.  The thoughts here bother me even more than I want to admit.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away.
The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 12:33:30 AM
The Wyndham.  How many times have we looked at those photos inside that hotel room and said that's the Wyndham?  Those keys that Deepak had. ( I know someone said he had some type of key in hi pocket). The guards...the guards...the photo of the black team...even Simian mentions them.  Merian Ernest mentions Bill's lodgings.  Tylergal always said there was a connection.   She was picked out in the casino by Paulus and obtained by Joran.  For his trouble he gets to sample the merchandise, but it didn't go as planned.  Could they really have left her on the beach to be taken?  Taken by those that should protect her?  I actually liked it better when all I thought about was Shango and his crazy riddles.  The thoughts here bother me even more than I want to admit.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away.
The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!



I think Bill lodgings is a reference to the Marriott.  The owner's first name is William.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 04, 2007, 12:33:47 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The card of babylon was already played
if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation
the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made
Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles
cowboys hear the singing, but the words are not understood
The gods and the babylonians are worried about the cowboys response



 Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew he girl.
Posted Jun 26, 9:53 PM |





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 04, 2007, 12:34:46 AM
The Wyndham.  How many times have we looked at those photos inside that hotel room and said that's the Wyndham?  Those keys that Deepak had. ( I know someone said he had some type of key in hi pocket). The guards...the guards...the photo of the black team...even Simian mentions them.  Merian Ernest mentions Bill's lodgings.  Tylergal always said there was a connection.   She was picked out in the casino by Paulus and obtained by Joran.  For his trouble he gets to sample the merchandise, but it didn't go as planned.  Could they really have left her on the beach to be taken?  Taken by those that should protect her?  I actually liked it better when all I thought about was Shango and his crazy riddles.  The thoughts here bother me even more than I want to admit.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away.
The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!



I think Bill lodgings is a reference to the Marriott.  The owner's first name is William.

Of course, did I say it was the Wyndham?  I am sure you are correct. Sorry.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 12:37:06 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The card of babylon was already played
if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation
the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made
Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles
cowboys hear the singing, but the words are not understood
The gods and the babylonians are worried about the cowboys response



 

My impression of this post:

Paulus is the card of Babylon.  If he speaks the truth about Van Der Straaten’s role in Aruba will either have the Netherlands (Queen) very angry or will implicate Holland in some wrongdoings.  The politicians are overing less than the truth and will sacrifice one of the guilty to keep the full story from being heard.  This problem has existed in Aruba for a long time and many of the older generation are still involved.  It’s right in front of the Americans, but they do not see it for what it is.  The Netherlands politicians and the ruling class are afraid of the Americans’ reaction if they find out.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 12:38:03 AM
The Wyndham.  How many times have we looked at those photos inside that hotel room and said that's the Wyndham?  Those keys that Deepak had. ( I know someone said he had some type of key in hi pocket). The guards...the guards...the photo of the black team...even Simian mentions them.  Merian Ernest mentions Bill's lodgings.  Tylergal always said there was a connection.   She was picked out in the casino by Paulus and obtained by Joran.  For his trouble he gets to sample the merchandise, but it didn't go as planned.  Could they really have left her on the beach to be taken?  Taken by those that should protect her?  I actually liked it better when all I thought about was Shango and his crazy riddles.  The thoughts here bother me even more than I want to admit.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away.
The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!



I think Bill lodgings is a reference to the Marriott.  The owner's first name is William.

Of course, did I say it was the Wyndham?  I am sure you are correct. Sorry.

No need to apologize.  I do believe there is a Wyndham connect here somewhere.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on August 04, 2007, 12:39:29 AM
Places like the Marriott and HI are very large, always busy even in the middle of the night. The thing about a place which is smaller is it is discrete. Amsterdam manor is the place the sloots lived when they first moved to aruba.

Low Rise Visibility Team Kick Off Party At Amsterdam Manor

http://tinyurl.com/34gwd2


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 12:40:38 AM
Places like the Marriott and HI are very large, always busy even in the middle of the night. The thing about a place which is smaller is it is discrete. Amsterdam manor is the place the sloots lived when they first moved to aruba.

Low Rise Visibility Team Kick Off Party At Amsterdam Manor

http://tinyurl.com/34gwd2

That is very interesting.  I have not seen this before.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 12:41:59 AM
From my earlier post:

The politicians are overing less than the truth

Should be

The politicians are offering less than the truth


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 04, 2007, 12:42:18 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Tribe knows all of the players, even the elders of the inner circle


If this were true, then no wonder the cover up.  It would make sense that everyone that is anybody on Aruba and also those that visit and pay the high dollars would need a cover up in order to protect everyone.  Could explain the teepees falling.  It would cause homes to be destroyed when the news of who were the elders became known.  Maybe I am just too conspiratorial here, I don't know.  As usual I am confused again.  I need to sort my thoughts a bit. 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 04, 2007, 12:43:07 AM

Amsterdam Manor is gold........maybe this was the golden maze. My feeling is there has to be a particular place, probably a hotel that tourists in general are taken when found passed out, drunk on the beach, or wherever until they can sleep it off. Maybe they brought Natalee to this place?

What is Amsterdam Manor?  A hotel?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on August 04, 2007, 12:43:10 AM
Places like the Marriott and HI are very large, always busy even in the middle of the night. The thing about a place which is smaller is it is discrete. Amsterdam manor is the place the sloots lived when they first moved to aruba.

Low Rise Visibility Team Kick Off Party At Amsterdam Manor

http://tinyurl.com/34gwd2

That is very interesting.  I have not seen this before.

Just something to consider perhaps.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on August 04, 2007, 12:44:44 AM

Amsterdam Manor is gold........maybe this was the golden maze. My feeling is there has to be a particular place, probably a hotel that tourists in general are taken when found passed out, drunk on the beach, or wherever until they can sleep it off. Maybe they brought Natalee to this place?

What is Amsterdam Manor?  A hotel?

Yes. Older one compared to many. It is in the low rise hotel area on the beach. Eagle beach i think?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 12:45:42 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Tribe knows all of the players, even the elders of the inner circle


If this were true, then no wonder the cover up.  It would make sense that everyone that is anybody on Aruba and also those that visit and pay the high dollars would need a cover up in order to protect everyone.  Could explain the teepees falling.  It would cause homes to be destroyed when the news of who were the elders became known.  Maybe I am just too conspiratorial here, I don't know.  As usual I am confused again.  I need to sort my thoughts a bit. 



I don't think you are on the wrong track here.  Whether there were some prominent people involved in the disappearance or just in the cover up, it would look bad for everyone.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 12:52:38 AM
Shango Says:June 27th, 2005 at 11:26 pm
The Arawaks will not enter the maze unless the cowboys refuse the peace pipe
Follow the music,
the lions are not tame
DirtyHand knows,
so does the elder


The island people will not reveal the activities of the ruling class unless the Americans refuse to accept the sacrifice of just Joran.  Follow the music seems to refer to the information that is available but not readily understood.  Some of the people responsible are difficult to control.  Van Der Straaten knows this and so does Paulus.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on August 04, 2007, 01:05:22 AM
I think too there a several verses by shango that are not of any great importance with regard to Natalee's disappearance and contributing information. This is JMO. Then why write it? Call it creative/poetic license.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 01:07:07 AM
I think too there a several verses by shango that are not of any great importance with regard to Natalee's disappearance and contributing information. This is JMO. Then why write it? Call it creative/poetic license.

Other than trying to explain who/what Shango is which verses do you think were not related to Natalee's disappearance?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 04, 2007, 01:09:08 AM
Places like the Marriott and HI are very large, always busy even in the middle of the night. The thing about a place which is smaller is it is discrete. Amsterdam manor is the place the sloots lived when they first moved to aruba.

Low Rise Visibility Team Kick Off Party At Amsterdam Manor

http://tinyurl.com/34gwd2

Well, you certainly covered every angle with that link.  Wow!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on August 04, 2007, 01:13:01 AM
Here is an example of what I mean. The following verse was written on june 26th, 2 days following the celebration of St Johns day in aruba which is june 24th. This holiday is marked by lighting fires as one part of the celebration. I am not sure it has anything to do with Natalee's going missing though.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:58 pm
Halls of the house of babylon may suddenly twist
to accomodate cowboys walking in the maze.
No loot, but many answers.
Better twisted hallways than fallen houses.
Many invisible spirits around Arawak Fires. Many gods watching.
we must have a sacrifice.
Light the fires!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 01:14:38 AM
Here is an example of what I mean. The following verse was written on june 26th, 2 days following the celebration of St Johns day in aruba which is june 24th. This holiday is marked by lighting fires as one part of the celebration. I am not sure it has anything to do with Natalee's going missing though.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:58 pm
Halls of the house of babylon may suddenly twist
to accomodate cowboys walking in the maze.
No loot, but many answers.
Better twisted hallways than fallen houses.
Many invisible spirits around Arawak Fires. Many gods watching.
we must have a sacrifice.
Light the fires!


Here's how I interpret thatL

It’s possible that the Americans will be given some leeway or information that will help end this.  Not Natalee, but some explanations.  They believe this will satisfy the Americans.  The politicians are paying attention to this.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 04, 2007, 01:18:01 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Why did the girl owe money?


Could this be how they catch their prey?  Play in the casinos and the one that owes them money is bailed out and then enticed by the one that can win back the money?  I know this wasn't Natalee, but I have always wondered if maybe it didn't matter.  They just needed a girl.  So Joran wins back some of the money and all the girls are impressed and begin to trust him.  I think some have said that Joran is a terrible player anyway, but if the house lets you win....then you look good to the American girls that are out having a good time.  That bunch knows what they are doing, they've done before.  Geez!  I don't know how they will ever fix this mess...the Dutch, I mean. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 01:21:40 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Why did the girl owe money?


Could this be how they catch their prey?  Play in the casinos and the one that owes them money is bailed out and then enticed by the one that can win back the money?  I know this wasn't Natalee, but I have always wondered if maybe it didn't matter.  They just needed a girl.  So Joran wins back some of the money and all the girls are impressed and begin to trust him.  I think some have said that Joran is a terrible player anyway, but if the house lets you win....then you look good to the American girls that are out having a good time.  That bunch knows what they are doing, they've done before.  Geez!  I don't know how they will ever fix this mess...the Dutch, I mean. 

You may not be far off with that idea.  With Guido there as the croupier he could scope the big money losers for the pimps.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on August 04, 2007, 01:26:56 AM
Here is an example of what I mean. The following verse was written on june 26th, 2 days following the celebration of St Johns day in aruba which is june 24th. This holiday is marked by lighting fires as one part of the celebration. I am not sure it has anything to do with Natalee's going missing though.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:58 pm
Halls of the house of babylon may suddenly twist
to accomodate cowboys walking in the maze.
No loot, but many answers.
Better twisted hallways than fallen houses.
Many invisible spirits around Arawak Fires. Many gods watching.
we must have a sacrifice.
Light the fires!


Here's how I interpret thatL

It’s possible that the Americans will be given some leeway or information that will help end this.  Not Natalee, but some explanations.  They believe this will satisfy the Americans.  The politicians are paying attention to this.

....or it can be "interpreted" as the ALE/ government will "cooperate" or twist, but only to appease the searchers/family. They will get nothing, no loot, but this is better than "falling houses" ......than their discovery of the hidden corruption. But IMO it isn't about Natalee.........


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 01:31:34 AM
Here is an example of what I mean. The following verse was written on june 26th, 2 days following the celebration of St Johns day in aruba which is june 24th. This holiday is marked by lighting fires as one part of the celebration. I am not sure it has anything to do with Natalee's going missing though.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:58 pm
Halls of the house of babylon may suddenly twist
to accomodate cowboys walking in the maze.
No loot, but many answers.
Better twisted hallways than fallen houses.
Many invisible spirits around Arawak Fires. Many gods watching.
we must have a sacrifice.
Light the fires!


Here's how I interpret thatL

It’s possible that the Americans will be given some leeway or information that will help end this.  Not Natalee, but some explanations.  They believe this will satisfy the Americans.  The politicians are paying attention to this.

....or it can be "interpreted" as the ALE/ government will "cooperate" or twist, but only to appease the searchers/family. They will get nothing, no loot, but this is better than "falling houses" ......than their discovery of the hidden corruption. But IMO it isn't about Natalee.........

I guess it's all in how you frame it.  To me, it's all related to Natalee and the search for her and what happened to her.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on August 04, 2007, 01:31:53 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Why did the girl owe money?


Could this be how they catch their prey?  Play in the casinos and the one that owes them money is bailed out and then enticed by the one that can win back the money?  I know this wasn't Natalee, but I have always wondered if maybe it didn't matter.  They just needed a girl.  So Joran wins back some of the money and all the girls are impressed and begin to trust him.  I think some have said that Joran is a terrible player anyway, but if the house lets you win....then you look good to the American girls that are out having a good time.  That bunch knows what they are doing, they've done before.  Geez!  I don't know how they will ever fix this mess...the Dutch, I mean. 

I hadn't thought about that but it sounds like a very possible way for joran to win the trust of the MB girls, or whatever tourist happens to be there. He certainly seemed to know all the tricks. There was the lie about being a tourist from holland. He wore the all inclusive bracelet. Oh yea and then there was Loco steffy to make the american tourist girl feel at ease.......that angle was an important one.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on August 04, 2007, 01:34:51 AM
No one can say you are wrong TS2.  :wink:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 04, 2007, 01:36:41 AM
Well, BB your sig line is very appropriate tonight.  The edges have blurred even more.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 01:38:31 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks
The way is clouded for the sacrifice
Rules have changed, so has the maze
the way is lost for the pioneers who went to live among the indians
The flames are growing
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police;
to spare the teepees
Singing cards have lost their power
Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand
His lordship will bestow the title soon….
They will save the teepees and the palace,
but first
The Sacrifice


The ruling class knew better than to get too close to the island people.  The ruling class is not ready to give up anyone from their side.  Now there is some doubt that a sacrifice will be offered.  Now the island people are close to having the upper hand.  They want this to be over.  They will give up Joran to save the ALE’s role in this from being discovered and save the businesses from going under.  They are no longer interested in telling the truth…just get it over with.
They don’t want the world to know what their law enforcement team does when crimes are committed against tourists.  His lordship will replace Van Der Straaten.  Aruba will be saved the embarrassment with a sacrifice.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on August 04, 2007, 01:40:30 AM
Well, BB your sig line is very appropriate tonight.  The edges have blurred even more.

I don't want to "blurr" the picture. I sure wish we had more definite answers.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 01:41:49 AM
Well, BB your sig line is very appropriate tonight.  The edges have blurred even more.

I don't want to "blurr" the picture. I sure wish we had more definite answers.

LOL.  It would be nice of Shango would make a brief appearance to tell us if we were even close to deciphering any of this.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 04, 2007, 01:43:13 AM
Well, BB your sig line is very appropriate tonight.  The edges have blurred even more.

I don't want to "blurr" the picture. I sure wish we had more definite answers.

Shango does enough blurring for all of us.  I just think your sig line is what this case is all about.  No matter how many times we want to say it's just a simple crime, we find out it really isn't that simple. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 04, 2007, 01:44:54 AM
Well, BB your sig line is very appropriate tonight.  The edges have blurred even more.

I don't want to "blurr" the picture. I sure wish we had more definite answers.

LOL.  It would be nice of Shango would make a brief appearance to tell us if we were even close to deciphering any of this.

I suspect that Shango does more laughing at us than we think.  If Shango even cares anymore.  You would think someone that spent all that time trying to tell us something would have the courage to finish what they started.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 01:44:58 AM
Well, BB your sig line is very appropriate tonight.  The edges have blurred even more.

I don't want to "blurr" the picture. I sure wish we had more definite answers.

Shango does enough blurring for all of us.  I just think your sig line is what this case is all about.  No matter how many times we want to say it's just a simple crime, we find out it really isn't that simple. 

As Simian said This is all a “lugubrious game"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Magnolia on August 04, 2007, 01:46:10 AM
For what it is worth,....In the islands and south Florida, "Cowboys" are the Columbian Drug dealers.  I have seen equiisearch referred to as the Texans
and Americans as North Americans.  So I am not sure it is revelent here,
but it could shed a llittle light.
Also as far as Natalee doing cocaine,   If You are drinking and do a line of coke it sobers you right up almost immediately. It would take a real lot of coke to overdose.   IMHO she was not doing coke, but am relatively sure she was given Date rape drug.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 01:53:06 AM
For what it is worth,....In the islands and south Florida, "Cowboys" are the Columbian Drug dealers.  I have seen equiisearch referred to as the Texans
and Americans as North Americans.  So I am not sure it is revelent here,
but it could shed a llittle light.
Also as far as Natalee doing cocaine,   If You are drinking and do a line of coke it sobers you right up almost immediately. It would take a real lot of coke to overdose.   IMHO she was not doing coke, but am relatively sure she was given Date rape drug.

I don't think she was doing coke either.  Date rape drug is very possible.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on August 04, 2007, 01:54:16 AM
Well, BB your sig line is very appropriate tonight.  The edges have blurred even more.

I don't want to "blurr" the picture. I sure wish we had more definite answers.

LOL.  It would be nice of Shango would make a brief appearance to tell us if we were even close to deciphering any of this.

I suspect that Shango does more laughing at us than we think.  If Shango even cares anymore.  You would think someone that spent all that time trying to tell us something would have the courage to finish what they started.

I think he was trying to tell us 2 simultaneous things and this is just my take on it. On one hand I think he had inside knowledge of what really happened that night. In reading the verses 2 years later, it doesn't come across as clearly that that was the case. But if you were here at the time he was churning out that information, he clearly had to be in the "know" . The second thread of his writings, again IMO seems to be about his knowledge of the "dark side" of aruba and such things as the Lions den, the Elders etc.
 
Night all. Hope we can tango again tomorrow.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 01:56:04 AM
From the beginning of Shango:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….


Shango’s first post.  Simian and the posters are talking about Steve Croes.  Simian says the music man’s song was not on the bill.  Shango is trying to let everyone know that someone else is involved in “singing the wrong tune”.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 01:58:03 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost.
Will one of the cards sing?


One of the cards is Van Der Straaten.  Don’t know the other(s).  Van Der Straaten, by this time, will be ‘retiring’ soon.  That is why that card is ‘lost’.  If Van Der Straaten or the other card(s) sing, Paulus will have a problem.  The other card could be Steve Croes or Lorenzo Van Rjin.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 02:01:13 AM
Is the Tango over??


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 02:10:09 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians do not like the Babylonian intrusion.
The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….


I think Shango is referring to the Aruban citizens (Sumerians).  Babylonians are those who run things on the island – the ruling class -  including PVDS.  Van der Straaten is the Babylonian card. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on August 04, 2007, 08:19:17 AM
Not Shango or Simian .....but interesting post I saved. Around the same time period that klaas posted a few pages earlier...



tony Says:
April 28th, 2006 at 4:17 pm

I am the one who sold the pictures to the daily news of SC and FA, I am
the former cruise ship waiter who knows the seaports as well as anyone, I
worked for 5 years onboard in the caribbean. I have rented the hookers and
gone to the underbelly for drugs many times. I have many dutch friends
and many island friends. Here are some things that stick out to me:
Drunk drivers never get caught on the first trip home, pedophiles have the
worst recitvism of any criiminal, prostitution and drugs are run and owned
by people with GREAT wealth it is never the poor.

Joran is the epitome of a spoiled, lying, drinking ,gambling adult by his own
admission.

Where are your shoes Joran from that night? Nobody walks home barefoot
in Aruba!

I saw you enjoying the choking you gave your brother with your belt.
I saw you humping at least 5 girls at C&Cs, all foreigners.
You are addicted to the 4 vices all of us are offered in life, Drinking
,gambling, drugs and Porn/sex.

You know FA made that tape and was trying to launch his own porn label.
You were there
.

She told you she was a virgin, you had to pass her on because of that didn’t you? That made you mad. You never should have told.

Did the K2 boys get mad when she asked if they were your slaves?

How is your soccer buddy (K)? Do you miss him?

SC, K2, FA and MD are your pals along with the BL gang, and kj , big D and vs are the protectors, we will never meet the owners, they dont live like us.

I have all the pictures from the early days.

Where is your mom now? She knows about you and your dads vices
I dont see the hugs and kisses anymore.

I know you like biting and choking and you are not a lover, you are a user , you use them up like toothpaste and then you spit them out.
 
Come get me Joe T, I am already in NY waiting.

You are now alone in this world.
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 11:15:30 AM
Not Shango or Simian .....but interesting post I saved. Around the same time period that klaas posted a few pages earlier...



tony Says:
April 28th, 2006 at 4:17 pm

I am the one who sold the pictures to the daily news of SC and FA, I am
the former cruise ship waiter who knows the seaports as well as anyone, I
worked for 5 years onboard in the caribbean. I have rented the hookers and
gone to the underbelly for drugs many times. I have many dutch friends
and many island friends. Here are some things that stick out to me:
Drunk drivers never get caught on the first trip home, pedophiles have the
worst recitvism of any criiminal, prostitution and drugs are run and owned
by people with GREAT wealth it is never the poor.

Joran is the epitome of a spoiled, lying, drinking ,gambling adult by his own
admission.

Where are your shoes Joran from that night? Nobody walks home barefoot
in Aruba!

I saw you enjoying the choking you gave your brother with your belt.
I saw you humping at least 5 girls at C&Cs, all foreigners.
You are addicted to the 4 vices all of us are offered in life, Drinking
,gambling, drugs and Porn/sex.

You know FA made that tape and was trying to launch his own porn label.
You were there
.

She told you she was a virgin, you had to pass her on because of that didn’t you? That made you mad. You never should have told.

Did the K2 boys get mad when she asked if they were your slaves?

How is your soccer buddy (K)? Do you miss him?

SC, K2, FA and MD are your pals along with the BL gang, and kj , big D and vs are the protectors, we will never meet the owners, they dont live like us.

I have all the pictures from the early days.

Where is your mom now? She knows about you and your dads vices
I dont see the hugs and kisses anymore.

I know you like biting and choking and you are not a lover, you are a user , you use them up like toothpaste and then you spit them out.
 
Come get me Joe T, I am already in NY waiting.

You are now alone in this world.
 

Very interesting post.  Do you think this guy is for real?  Do you know if he ever posted again?

You know FA made that tape and was trying to launch his own porn label.
You were there.


I think this could be regarding the tape FA was arrested for, not a tape of Natalee.  What do you think?

She told you she was a virgin, you had to pass her on because of that didn’t you? That made you mad. You never should have told.

Now, this is interesting as well.  If there is a protocol for that business and the 'gophers' are not allowed to be the first to deflower the catch, then that makes Shango even more interesting.  Shango does hint at this scenario, but Shango interjects an element of fear from Joran.

Hmmm...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on August 04, 2007, 11:48:06 AM
Not Shango or Simian .....but interesting post I saved. Around the same time period that klaas posted a few pages earlier...



tony Says:
April 28th, 2006 at 4:17 pm

I am the one who sold the pictures to the daily news of SC and FA, I am
the former cruise ship waiter who knows the seaports as well as anyone, I
worked for 5 years onboard in the caribbean. I have rented the hookers and
gone to the underbelly for drugs many times. I have many dutch friends
and many island friends. Here are some things that stick out to me:
Drunk drivers never get caught on the first trip home, pedophiles have the
worst recitvism of any criiminal, prostitution and drugs are run and owned
by people with GREAT wealth it is never the poor.

Joran is the epitome of a spoiled, lying, drinking ,gambling adult by his own
admission.

Where are your shoes Joran from that night? Nobody walks home barefoot
in Aruba!

I saw you enjoying the choking you gave your brother with your belt.
I saw you humping at least 5 girls at C&Cs, all foreigners.
You are addicted to the 4 vices all of us are offered in life, Drinking
,gambling, drugs and Porn/sex.

You know FA made that tape and was trying to launch his own porn label.
You were there
.

She told you she was a virgin, you had to pass her on because of that didn’t you? That made you mad. You never should have told.

Did the K2 boys get mad when she asked if they were your slaves?

How is your soccer buddy (K)? Do you miss him?

SC, K2, FA and MD are your pals along with the BL gang, and kj , big D and vs are the protectors, we will never meet the owners, they dont live like us.

I have all the pictures from the early days.

Where is your mom now? She knows about you and your dads vices
I dont see the hugs and kisses anymore.

I know you like biting and choking and you are not a lover, you are a user , you use them up like toothpaste and then you spit them out.
 
Come get me Joe T, I am already in NY waiting.

You are now alone in this world.
 

Very interesting post.  Do you think this guy is for real?  Do you know if he ever posted again?

You know FA made that tape and was trying to launch his own porn label.
You were there.


I think this could be regarding the tape FA was arrested for, not a tape of Natalee.  What do you think?

She told you she was a virgin, you had to pass her on because of that didn’t you? That made you mad. You never should have told.

Now, this is interesting as well.  If there is a protocol for that business and the 'gophers' are not allowed to be the first to deflower the catch, then that makes Shango even more interesting.  Shango does hint at this scenario, but Shango interjects an element of fear from Joran.

Hmmm...

There was a TONY posting in the forum for a while, I think it's the same person.  See if this link to his posts works:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=profile;u=270;sa=showPosts


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 04, 2007, 03:03:21 PM
Simian…
I agree with those who think Simian was reporting on “inside “ info developing during the initial investigative process.  It was the beginning, no antagonism amongst those interested in the case was foreseen at the time, and it was probably assumed that within a few days the Aruba Police would solve the case. The press visiting Aruba and the blog readers’ demand for information affected all the notoriety seekers.  Many wanted the attention, even if hidden behind the unseen face of an username and a friend-of-Americans attitude.

Simian reported what he was told by his source and enhanced it with his own thoughts and opinions, all of which served to “taint” his reports with personal biases and guessing (i. e. the package from The Hague).

Simian meant well and unfortunately, when anti-Aruban factions started to develop, his attitude and those of many members posting from Aruba changed to reflect a nationalistic defense, which became an obstacle to the flow of quasi-factual information and word-of-mouth comments.

Shango…
This character originated when a couple of pranksters from Aruba decided to have some fun at the cost of Simian and an information hungry audience.  Shango posted only for a few days, maybe four days, and the Shango duo quit when several things happened:  Shango figured out who Simian was and started to make fun of him; Simian then figured out who they (Shango) are -Simian PINGed Shangoo-, and perhaps an arrangement of no aggression was made between these Colegio Arubano schoolmates.

Probably, there is also an ingredient of guilt behind Shango’s “resignation”.  They meant to have a few laughs, but readers began to give credence to the Shango comments and in doing that, Shango inadvertently began the groundworks for the discredit of Aruban socio-political structure and their Dutch establishment, in blogs and forums (or fora, as dykejumper correctly refers to the Latin plural).

Fierljepper…
Dykejumper is overstressing that he is a “newbie” to Shango and Simian, so I am going to assume that for some personal reason, that is what he wants everyone to believe when in fact it is the other way around.

Babylonians…
This terminology is intimately related to the history of The Reformation and the rise of Protestantism in the 16th Century.  The reformers agreed that Salvation was by faith alone in Jesus Christ. There was a renewed interest in the study and application of Bible Doctrine and a rejection of Papal Bulls, church traditions and extra biblical principles. 

Martin Luther published “Babylonian Captivity of the Church” in 1520, where he pointed out the evils of the sacramental system of the Roman Catholic Church, making a spiritual connection between Rome and Babylon.  To him, the papacy is the Kingdom of Babylon and Rome, the modern Babylon.

Protestant Reformation, or Calvinism, rapidly became the second phase Protestantism and the theological system of the majority in the 16th and 17th century Netherlands.

The terminology Babylonians is a well-known concept in the historical perspective of the Dutch speaking peoples.  When Shango used it, it was not meant to refer to the Dutch establishment in Aruba, but most likely the Catholics-"the Prostitute of Babylon"- desiring lust for riches and gratifications of the flesh, whomever they are.  Possibly dykejumper can enlighten us.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 03:22:54 PM
Simian…
I agree with those who think Simian was reporting on “inside “ info developing during the initial investigative process.  It was the beginning, no antagonism amongst those interested in the case was foreseen at the time, and it was probably assumed that within a few days the Aruba Police would solve the case. The press visiting Aruba and the blog readers’ demand for information affected all the notoriety seekers.  Many wanted the attention, even if hidden behind the unseen face of an username and a friend-of-Americans attitude.

Simian reported what he was told by his source and enhanced it with his own thoughts and opinions, all of which served to “taint” his reports with personal biases and guessing (i. e. the package from The Hague).

Simian meant well and unfortunately, when anti-Aruban factions started to develop, his attitude and those of many members posting from Aruba changed to reflect a nationalistic defense, which became an obstacle to the flow of quasi-factual information and word-of-mouth comments.

Shango…
This character originated when a couple of pranksters from Aruba decided to have some fun at the cost of Simian and an information hungry audience.  Shango posted only for a few days, maybe four days, and the Shango duo quit when several things happened:  Shango figured out who Simian was and started to make fun of him; Simian then figured out who they (Shango) are -Simian PINGed Shangoo-, and perhaps an arrangement of no aggression was made between these Colegio Arubano schoolmates.

Probably, there is also an ingredient of guilt behind Shango’s “resignation”.  They meant to have a few laughs, but readers began to give credence to the Shango comments and in doing that, Shango inadvertently began the groundworks for the discredit of Aruban socio-political structure and their Dutch establishment, in blogs and forums (or fora, as dykejumper correctly refers to the Latin plural).

Fierljepper…
Dykejumper is overstressing that he is a “newbie” to Shango and Simian, so I am going to assume that for some personal reason, that is what he wants everyone to believe when in fact it is the other way around.

Babylonians…
This terminology is intimately related to the history of The Reformation and the rise of Protestantism in the 16th Century.  The reformers agreed that Salvation was by faith alone in Jesus Christ. There was a renewed interest in the study and application of Bible Doctrine and a rejection of Papal Bulls, church traditions and extra biblical principles. 

Martin Luther published “Babylonian Captivity of the Church” in 1520, where he pointed out the evils of the sacramental system of the Roman Catholic Church, making a spiritual connection between Rome and Babylon.  To him, the papacy is the Kingdom of Babylon and Rome, the modern Babylon.

Protestant Reformation, or Calvinism, rapidly became the second phase Protestantism and the theological system of the majority in the 16th and 17th century Netherlands.

The terminology Babylonians is a well-known concept in the historical perspective of the Dutch speaking peoples.  When Shango used it, it was not meant to refer to the Dutch establishment in Aruba, but most likely the Catholics-"the Prostitute of Babylon"- desiring lust for riches and gratifications of the flesh, whomever they are.  Possibly dykejumper can enlighten us.




Thanks for you insight into this. 

I agree that Simian was posting information received from within the investigation.  Initally his posts were not so cryptic.  I would speculate that Simian may have posted more than ALE would have liked and that is when the style of his posts changed.

I am not inclined to believe Shango was a joke, as he was relaying similar information in a different format.  Shango did, however, venture into the possible socio-economic conditions in Aruba that are not totally unlike many other countries in the world.  If Shango was having fun, as you indicate, some of those posts appear to be based in fact.  For instance, the posts that imply that the Kalpoes left Joran and Nat and were not present when she met her demise...whatever that may have been.  The Kalpoes had already told this version to ALE before Shango posted.

As for the Babylonians, do you think it would be correct the this term could apply to a "ruling class"?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 03:43:20 PM
Since Simian was the first to use the term 'Babylonians' and Shango's first post the next day used the term to ask a question of Simian, do you think they were in agreement as to whom the term referred?

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 8:21 pm
The Simian knows the Babylonians. They need to plan the legal checkmate perfectly. They know that the elder knows his way around the palace. All gates need to be shut.


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….


Actually, it's difficult to tell if Shango asked a question when using the term or was he answering the question for Simian?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 06:43:23 PM
The terms Arawak and Sumerian were used by Simian and Shango.  Many of us have speculated that Arawaks refers to the native Arubans.  Then we have asked who the Sumerians were, often asking if this term was referring to the Mansurs.

In reading the posts in context it seems to me that Arawaks and Sumerians actually refers to the same group of people.  The first reference to either of these terms comes from Shango:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians  do not like the Babylonian intrusion.
The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….


Simian does not respond.  The next reference is from Shango again:


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Simian, why was the key from the Babylons Palace not used to open the Sumerians Door ? They have become famished and Eden is beckoning….


Simian responds:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:27 pm
The cowboys have only so much gold. The territory is rough. There are many secrets, but the Arawaks are helping. The palace is open to all, but the palace is a maze to most.



Then Shango responds:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:30 pm
Simian, his lordship did not bring the key for the Arawaks   So it will remain “cowboys and indians” The posse was too late


It's as though Shango is saying 'fine, we can call them Arawaks if you prefer' and uses that term from then on.  The term Sumerians was never mentioned again by either Shango or Simian.

To examine this closer, Shango chose the term Sumerians.  Sumerians were a mixed ethnic group who spoke many languages and settled in Mesopotamia, now known as Iraq.  They were eventually ruled by the Babylonians.  Interesting that Sumerians and Babylonians were both civilzations in Mesopotamia/Iraq.

Simian preferred Arawaks, who migrated to the Caribbean islands from South America.  He chose a term more closely related to the islands.

I believe Sumerians and Arawaks are the same group of people.  Any thoughts?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: fierljepper on August 04, 2007, 07:03:55 PM
Simian…

(...)
Fierljepper…
Dykejumper is overstressing that he is a “newbie” to Shango and Simian, so I am going to assume that for some personal reason, that is what he wants everyone to believe when in fact it is the other way around.
(...)


You're clearly not reading my posts.

I'm not overstressing that I'm a newbie, I was just replying to a question from someone who implicated that I was a Newbie. He/she was right. And before you start more rumors, I'm also not Simian or Shango...

For the rest, I think you're post was very good!

P.S. 1
Funny that you use the word Dyke instead of Ditch (I wasn't aware of that second meaning). In NL we put a "finger in the dyke" and we "jump over ditches" (with a stick or pole).

Now that you've mentioned dykes. Just as a little subroutine...  It reminds me of a funny story I experienced during one of my recent visits to the US. Caught a taxi at my hotel for my family and we were heading for a mall. Me in the front seat and my family in back seat. Driver asks me were I'm from. Told him that I was from the Netherlands. Then we chatted a while about language in general. Told him that we use a lot of English words in our language, but that there are also a few Dutch words that made it into English. Gave him the examples of "apartheid" (which unfortunately is Dutch) and also the word "dyke". Then he suddenly gave me a very naughty look and after some hesitation sneakily asked me whether that particular word "dyke" also had a similar "connotation" in Dutch (you know what I mean, hush hush, blink blink). I pretended that didn't understand what he was hinting at and replied with a poker face: "surely we do, in the Netherlands we're actually used to stack up our lesbians to protect us from the sea and the rivers". This was followed by a stunning silence of at least a few minutes. Then he burst out in laughter and almost hit the oncoming traffic on the other side of the road...

P.S.2
Tip. Try your nickname on Babelfish with conversion set "Dutch -> English" :D


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 04, 2007, 07:25:15 PM

<snipped>

Fierljepper…
Dykejumper is overstressing that he is a “newbie” to Shango and Simian, so I am going to assume that for some personal reason, that is what he wants everyone to believe when in fact it is the other way around.

<snipped>


Stom ... I agree.

I suspect that Fierljepper is taking advantage of Shango's theory to further the Aruban agenda of Julia Renfro and her many internet associates ... an agenda that distances Paulus and Joran from implication in the events that empasses the morning when Natalee Holloway went missing and ... directs focus on the MB students ... Natalee's actions and ... Beth's credibility.

Janet


Shango's Riddle
Fierljepper's Interpretation
August 1, 2007

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.0

If you read through the whole sequence of their posts, it actually isn't that difficult to follow (it's only a bit unfortunate that someone "alter-egod" Simian along the way):

In a nutshell: they're talking about a "Dirtyhand" who is the jealous ex-boyfriend of Natalee who they see as the real murderer. However, neither the Aruban legal system (Babylonians) nor the Aruban police/investigation team (Awaraks) are allowed to break into the inner circle of the Mountain Brook students and their parents (the maze and the elders). They postulate a high level cover up deal between US and Aruba officials which aims to conceal this pretty embarrassing case for some influential US people. The cowboys (Equusearch/FBI) are searching Aruba (Babylon) for nothing. Joran van der Sloot (the son) and the Kalpoes (the Hindus/Shivas) are used as the scape goats to distract the attention from Natalees peers. The boys are sacrificed (Joran is 'the lamb', the fire gets heated up) to protect the high level deal. Since they knew that there never would be found any crucial evidence or a body ("the key to edens door"), the whole case ended in the current catch 22.

This is remarkably in line with Dompig's and Renfro's recent story, so Simian/Shango could very well have been one of them. They most certainly were very well informed in those days, even earlier than the press it seemed. "The lord" must therefore be somebody higher up then them. Who was the boss of Dompig ? Who was the president of Aruba ? 8-)

+++++++++++

 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: fierljepper on August 04, 2007, 08:10:11 PM

<snipped>

Fierljepper…
Dykejumper is overstressing that he is a “newbie” to Shango and Simian, so I am going to assume that for some personal reason, that is what he wants everyone to believe when in fact it is the other way around.

<snipped>


Stom ... I agree.

I suspect that Fierljepper is taking advantage of Shango's theory to further the Aruban agenda of Julia Renfro and her many internet associates ... an agenda that distances Paulus and Joran from implication in the events that empasses the morning when Natalee Holloway went missing and ... directs focus on the MB students ... Natalee's actions and ... Beth's credibility.

Janet


Shango's Riddle
Fierljepper's Interpretation
August 1, 2007

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.0

+++++++++++
 

Janet cum suis,

I actually thought the idea of this forum was to discuss the Simian/Shango texts and to exchange arguments based on content. Why on earth do you continue to accuse me of supporting a conspiracy theory? It really starts to get annoying now. Why not just say what's wrong with my interpretation based on datapoints, rather than qualifying it as "stupid", "it makes me laugh" or "it's only driven by an conspiracy agenda" ?

I really don't understand all the aggression here. OK, I entered with a pretty blunt statement that "it was pretty easy to interpret" and that's certainly not smart move for a complete newbie. But hey, it was just a sincere fresh look and I adjusted that initial view based on some content feedback (e.g. around the ex-boyfriend). That's what a discussion is for.

The main reasons that I finally decided to sign up for the Scared Monkeys forum were:
1. the superior moderation, knowledge and perseverance of Klaasend et al (very impressive)
2. the perception of very strong and warm community (which goes beyond the case)
3. the unwritten culture of welcoming new people to the club (which is refreshing for fora)
 
I really don't understand what I've done wrong other than proposing a provocative idea that apparently wasn't nicely "preaching for the Scared Monkey's choir" and/or offended the "experts that have studied this already to death".

Before I make more enemies, I'm out of here.

I sincerely hope that this forum keeps an open mind for all hypothesis out there, as crazy and as uncomfortable as they might sound.

P.S.
Janet, I'm not picking on you, your post was just the drip that flooded my bucket... :sad:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 08:36:10 PM
Fierljepper,

First ...and foremost, if you had read Shango and Simian at all you would know that Dirty Hand was identified and confirmed as 'Chief of Polis' which was Van Der Stratten.

Shango Says:June 27th, 2005 at 4:00 am
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting


Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.


Second...there was no 'ex-boyfriend'.  Just because some of the PR tagalongs in Aruba have thrown that out there does not make it so.  If by 'ex-boyfriend' you mean someone she met in Aruba a few days before then you might have said so in your first post.  Unless that person was Van Der Stratten, your theory was shot out of the water from the beginning.

Third...People at SM are tired of the same old junk coming from some of the sites that seem to think Joran is innocent and Beth did this to her own child, or Natalee ran away.  You won't find too many people here that hold those opinions because there is no proof what so ever that they are true.  Joran and the Kalpoes, on the other hand, have lied and been caught at it.  If they are innocent they brought this srutiny on themselves.

Now, this thread was to discuss Shango and Simian.  You want everyone to analyze your post and if they disagree you want them to refute your post with facts, but you blew in the first line.  Sorry, but you did.  If you got your feelings hurt and are leaving, then so be it.  If not, then how about discussing some of the posts others have placed here for discussion.  I haven't seen you do that.  You only want to discuss yours and you want to do it in hit-and-run style.  Why is that?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 04, 2007, 08:55:59 PM


As for the Babylonians, do you think it would be correct the this term could apply to a "ruling class"?
[/quote]

It could very well be.  And defining who conforms the “ruling class” would have to be the next question.  I see the “ruling class” as being integrated by three distinctive groups:  those that acquire might by nature of internal political and governmental power, the confederation of businesses in the island’s economic mainstay and the Mansurs, assuming that by ruling class we are referring to is the social group that sets political policy.  But keep in mind that this is just an inference from inconclusive, iffy information.

I have come to know of Dutch hotel managers in Aruba, Dutch investors in the tourism industry, Dutch judicial officials, Dutch lawyers, Dutch Police Chiefs, Dutch teachers…possibly the Dutch are an elite in Aruba, not because of economic and political power, but because they are the experts, the highly skilled group, the technocrats. 

I don’t know if enjoying superior expertise and intellectual, social, or economic status makes you a member of the “ruling class” in Aruba, or if for all practical purposes there are two ruling classes, one that exerts “internal” authority and the other, that influences from the perspective of defense and foreign affairs.  But honestly, I doubt a group of Dutch private citizens could exert significant influence indirectly, via Kingdom matters.

Also, I don’t know what Simian meant by Babylonian when he first used the term.  But it seems illogically that a person educated in a Dutch system would not know what Babylonian means in the context of historical reference of The Netherlands, unless evolution has changed the significance of the term and presently, it conveys something else in Dutch/Aruban culture.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 04, 2007, 09:01:00 PM
Quote
P.S.2
Tip. Try your nickname on Babelfish with conversion set "Dutch -> English" :D

I don't have to translate it.  It was chosen expressly.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 09:04:58 PM

Also, I don’t know what Simian meant by Babylonian when he first used the term.  But it seems illogically that a person educated in a Dutch system would not know what Babylonian means in the context of historical reference of The Netherlands, unless evolution has changed the significance of the term and presently, it conveys something else in Dutch/Aruban culture.


Tell me more.  I understand Babylonian from the perspective of Goggle  :D, but not having any experience with the Dutch or with Aruba I struggle to precisely identify the reference.  Can you add anything else to this?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 04, 2007, 09:08:12 PM
Fierljepper ... I consider Shango's riddle a theory with a gimmick ... a good theory but nevertheless a theory.

Fierljepper ... you provide no backup for your interpretation.  Your interpretation only goes to further the agenda of those who are distancing Paulus and Joran from implication and ... shifting the focus of blame onto the MB students ... Natalee and ... Beth.  Shango is not a god and ... his/her riddle should not be interpretation in a vacuum.  When interpretating Shango's riddle ... the words of those those with a foundational inside knowledge of what is taking place within the investigation should be taken into consideration.

Sincerely, Janet


ARUBAN AUTHORITIES IMPLICATE MAIN SUSPECTS IN NATALEE HOLLOW CASE

http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/2007/07/aruban-authorities-implicate-main.html



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 04, 2007, 09:15:01 PM
Janet cum suis

<snipped>


I assume the "cum suis" is an endearing salutation.  :)

TIA

Janet


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 04, 2007, 09:20:26 PM
Janet cum suis

<snipped>


I assume the "cum suis" is an endearing salutation.  :)

TIA

Janet

LOL.  Probably depends on what kind of website your see it on.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 04, 2007, 09:44:24 PM

You're clearly not reading my posts.

I'm not overstressing that I'm a newbie, I was just replying to a question from someone who implicated that I was a Newbie.

Right….I carried-over the times you stated in your Scrux “colluded” posts, that you were new to the NH case. I apologize.

Quote
P.S. 1
Funny that you use the word Dyke instead of Ditch (I wasn't aware of that second meaning). In NL we put a "finger in the dyke" and we "jump over ditches" (with a stick or pole).

Dyke Jumper or Ditch Jumper: a matter of regional semanthics.

http://tinyurl.com/25usen



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on August 05, 2007, 08:13:14 AM
Janet cum suis

<snipped>


I assume the "cum suis" is an endearing salutation.  :)

TIA

Janet

Hi janet  :smt052

Whatever it means...this is an English speaking board (so we've been told).

So unless it means 'tamikosmom is wonderful' ............and the poster just doesn't know how to say it in English.................then what you stated about what we all unfortunately had to be subjected to in our former 'pro Natalee' site may be trying to break through here :sad:

(And by the way -- using our friend 'babelfish' -- this poster is definitely NOT saying 'tamiskosmom is wonderful'.)


BOYCOTT ARUBA
JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 05, 2007, 09:47:33 AM
Dykejumper,

If you feel that either my “postulate” regarding your longevity on the NH case or my calling you Dykejumper has the intention to direct unpleasant provocations as a results of your comments, I can assure you, that is not so.  So come back and keep doing what you were… but possibly you may want to edit the introductory phrase of your initial comment “All, Appreciate your challenges …”.
---------------------------------------------

Janet,

Since Ditchjumper is upset and he may not want to reply just yet, “cum” means “with” in Latin and “suis” is the plural possessive form of she or he.  Janet cum suis means Janet with hers = Janet and associates.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on August 05, 2007, 05:42:55 PM
It seems we are still arguing the 5th suspect.  Depends on whom you listen to as to the identity.  For any new posters reading, I will try to rehash this topic.  Anyone feel free to lead in a new direction.  I am  open to any ideas.


Paulus van der Sloot was the 5th suspect arrested.
1. Joran
2. deepak
3. satish
4. steve croes
5. paulus van der sloot

Lorenzo was brought in and questioned, max arrendz provided an alibi





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on August 05, 2007, 07:27:51 PM
It seems we are still arguing the 5th suspect.  Depends on whom you listen to as to the identity.  For any new posters reading, I will try to rehash this topic.  Anyone feel free to lead in a new direction.  I am  open to any ideas.


Paulus van der Sloot was the 5th suspect arrested.
1. Joran
2. deepak
3. satish
4. steve croes
5. paulus van der sloot

Lorenzo was brought in and questioned, max arrendz provided an alibi





Guido gave several statements.  Was he ever a suspect, before his arrest in Holland??


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 05, 2007, 10:02:13 PM
It seems we are still arguing the 5th suspect.  Depends on whom you listen to as to the identity.  For any new posters reading, I will try to rehash this topic.  Anyone feel free to lead in a new direction.  I am  open to any ideas.


Paulus van der Sloot was the 5th suspect arrested.
1. Joran
2. deepak
3. satish
4. steve croes
5. paulus van der sloot

Lorenzo was brought in and questioned, max arrendz provided an alibi





I understand where you are coming from, but if you read the early June 2005 archives you will clearly see that everyone  posting from Aruba implicates Lorenzo as the 5th suspect.  It's still conjecture, since there is not a definitive statement that places Paulus as the 5th suspect. The earliest posters placed Lorenzo right in the middle of this entire scenario. It is mentioned several times by posters such as Native Lingo and Americaninaruba.  I have wavered on both as being the 5th.  From reading the early posts, it indicates that it is Lorenzo long before Simian ever posted about the 5th suspect.  To me being a suspect doesn't mean the same as being arrested.  A person that needs to provide an alibi would be a suspect as well.  I am still on the fence with this one.

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left? Did Paulus run home from the casino after 8 PM to have a party?
Posted Jun 22, 5:03 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Beth Twitty and the Van der Sloots' Meet” | View Post
191.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week. Would Natalee have been interested in Paulus? 
Posted Jun 22, 5:00 PM


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: mrs. red on August 05, 2007, 10:07:31 PM
well Lala's I can answer that Natalee wouldn't have been interested in Paulus... that's gross!   :lol:

Just wanted to read up on what y'all had figured out....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 05, 2007, 10:08:40 PM
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:52 pm   Subject: Aruba Dirty Police
Posted by VMS

Lorenzo had 3 houses:
his mansion Savaneta 172, Savaneta (Jaraweg),
his concrete country block house, near Arikok Park near Hooiberg,
and the mansion his mother lived in, which is the ONLY ONE they searched, apx June 16th?:
SAVANETA 123-K, SAVANETA, ARUBA

Lorenzo also had an alibi for why he could not have been out with Natalee:
Max Arendz (the race car driver and his friend) said Lorenzo was hosting a (basically all night) party at his mansion which Max attended, which gave Lorenzo his air tight alibi.

IF the party that Paulus and the elders attended was at Lorenzo's house, and Natalee was delivered there, Lorenzo no longer has an air tight alibi does he.

This was posted by VMS in the Aruba Police thread referenced above, don't know if it helps.

OS


This is part of a post by Ospainter concerning Lorenzo.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 05, 2007, 10:31:41 PM
well Lala's I can answer that Natalee wouldn't have been interested in Paulus... that's gross!   :lol:

Just wanted to read up on what y'all had figured out....

I agree with you, Mrs. Red. Just pointing that out as others indicate a possibility that Paulus was the 5th suspect.  Natalee would not have been interested in him at all, Lorenzo maybe.  Besides, it is very obvious that Natalee was not interested and did not know Paulus from the casino video.  I believe it was Paulus in the video for two reasons...if it wasn't we would already know who it was. The pro-Sloot crowd would have debunked that one very fast if it wasn't him and plus the hairline comparison clinched it for me...it's Paulus sitting beside Natalee in the casino.  Joran is looking all smart by winning a fixed hand for those girls and Paulus is bragging that's his kid to Natalee.  They were softening up the girls to be able to gain their confidence and take one of them. That is why I do not think the 5th suspect is Paulus.  I simply don't see Natalee as attracted to him in any way...not with so many  other young men within her reach. 

Just to be fair, many of our code talker thought the 5th suspect was indeed Paulus.  I had many a discussion with them on this very subject.  I don't know what to think anymore. The early Aruban posters implictaed Lorenzo early on for some reason...one of which was due to his famous raves. JMO.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: shadow on August 06, 2007, 12:53:05 PM
It seems we are still arguing the 5th suspect.  Depends on whom you listen to as to the identity.  For any new posters reading, I will try to rehash this topic.  Anyone feel free to lead in a new direction.  I am  open to any ideas.


Paulus van der Sloot was the 5th suspect arrested.
1. Joran
2. deepak
3. satish
4. steve croes
5. paulus van der sloot

Lorenzo was brought in and questioned, max arrendz provided an alibi





I understand where you are coming from, but if you read the early June 2005 archives you will clearly see that everyone  posting from Aruba implicates Lorenzo as the 5th suspect.  It's still conjecture, since there is not a definitive statement that places Paulus as the 5th suspect. The earliest posters placed Lorenzo right in the middle of this entire scenario. It is mentioned several times by posters such as Native Lingo and Americaninaruba.  I have wavered on both as being the 5th.  From reading the early posts, it indicates that it is Lorenzo long before Simian ever posted about the 5th suspect.  To me being a suspect doesn't mean the same as being arrested.  A person that needs to provide an alibi would be a suspect as well.  I am still on the fence with this one.

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left? Did Paulus run home from the casino after 8 PM to have a party?
Posted Jun 22, 5:03 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Beth Twitty and the Van der Sloots' Meet” | View Post
191.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week. Would Natalee have been interested in Paulus? 
Posted Jun 22, 5:00 PM


Hi Lala's . . . hate I haven't been around much to tango in the new ballroom, but I wanted to add my 2cents to this discussion.

What if there were actually two parties going on that night. The party at Lorenzo's and the the party for the elders hosted by PVDS at his home or in one of the hotels. There was a lot of discussion early on regarding a secret room or area in one of the hotels, the Wyndham?, reserved for special parties.

I am suspicious of the fact that some of the early Aruban posters pointed to Lorenzo. There were a lot of other misdirection we were unaware of at the time. IMO. He would be an easy target given the drugs and reputation for rave parties, and it wouldn't draw attention to the true ugliness that they don't want anyone to see and certainly don't want to expose the real players.

The boyfriend from earlier in the week comment I can't explain. I remember some comments early on that she was seen having lunch with someone during the trip rumored to be Lorenzo, but IIRC that rumor was debunked. These are tough codes to crack, but I am leaning towards Paulus being the 5th suspect.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: shadow on August 06, 2007, 01:08:19 PM
Tony's Post
From the initials used it is clear that the friends are Steve Croes, Kalpoe brothers, Freddy A. and Michael Dompig.

Anyone know who the BL Gang is referring to??

The protectors are obviously Karin Jansen, Gerold Dompig and Van Der Stratten. IMO!

So who would be the owners?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 06, 2007, 01:14:55 PM
The early posters, and I do mean within the first week, did not have the inside info that would have them assist in the cover up.  In fact, the ones I read had little to do with the investigation at all. The only person that could possibly be accused of assisting in the cover up would have been Native Lingo.  She was an insider.  The very earliest comments about parties and drugs involved Lorenzo.  That is what I am going by, not saying it's right, just saying that is what I have observed.  I know there are many that think I am way off base here and that Lorenzo had nothing to do with this at all.  I just think we should explore this as a possible scenario. 

Lorenzo was known to throw the parties at his houses. 
Lorenzo was the drug dealer of choice on the island.
Lorenzo could have some connection to the Sloots.
Lorenzo was kept out of the loop early on.  When his name began to come up in the beginning it was then quickly shushed into oblivion.
Lorenzo, until recently was the mystery man of the hour.

I can't connect the dots because I am too dumb in that regard.  I wish I could, but I can't. However, Tylergal has long contended that what happened to Natalee happened at the HI.  What she says makes sense too.  The alibi of bringing her back to the HI could have been concocted because they knew she could have been seen there. There is a history of some sort with that place.  She was targeted in their casino.  I could go on, but you get the message.  Both scenarios are highly possile.  Now, we have to find the one that is most probable. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: shadow on August 06, 2007, 01:25:16 PM
The early posters, and I do mean within the first week, did not have the inside info that would have them assist in the cover up.  In fact, the ones I read had little to do with the investigation at all. The only person that could possibly be accused of assisting in the cover up would have been Native Lingo.  She was an insider.  The very earliest comments about parties and drugs involved Lorenzo.  That is what I am going by, not saying it's right, just saying that is what I have observed.  I know there are many that think I am way off base here and that Lorenzo had nothing to do with this at all.  I just think we should explore this as a possible scenario. 

Lorenzo was known to throw the parties at his houses. 
Lorenzo was the drug dealer of choice on the island.
Lorenzo could have some connection to the Sloots.
Lorenzo was kept out of the loop early on.  When his name began to come up in the beginning it was then quickly shushed into oblivion.
Lorenzo, until recently was the mystery man of the hour.

I can't connect the dots because I am too dumb in that regard.  I wish I could, but I can't. However, Tylergal has long contended that what happened to Natalee happened at the HI.  What she says makes sense too.  The alibi of bringing her back to the HI could have been concocted because they knew she could have been seen there. There is a history of some sort with that place.  She was targeted in their casino.  I could go on, but you get the message.  Both scenarios are highly possile.  Now, we have to find the one that is most probable. 

I agree with all you have said. I remember Tylergal discussing that. I have always wondered about it taking place in one of the hotels. Lorenzo was more than likely involved as far as providing drugs, and perhaps because he was aware of the other party, for lack of a better term and what was going on he was quickly pushed into the background because if pinched he may have a lot to tell. Hence he becomes our mystery man. However, the drugs are probably part of the same group and industry they have tried so hard to disappear. Making him too close to be questioned as a suspect. Just thinking out loud.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on August 06, 2007, 01:55:16 PM
Tony's Post
From the initials used it is clear that the friends are Steve Croes, Kalpoe brothers, Freddy A. and Michael Dompig.

Anyone know who the BL Gang is referring to??
The protectors are obviously Karin Jansen, Gerold Dompig and Van Der Stratten. IMO!

So who would be the owners?

The spelling may be off, but is that the bubba lecher gang that was discussed way back? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on August 06, 2007, 02:00:29 PM
It seems we are still arguing the 5th suspect.  Depends on whom you listen to as to the identity.  For any new posters reading, I will try to rehash this topic.  Anyone feel free to lead in a new direction.  I am  open to any ideas.


Paulus van der Sloot was the 5th suspect arrested.
1. Joran
2. deepak
3. satish
4. steve croes
5. paulus van der sloot

Lorenzo was brought in and questioned, max arrendz provided an alibi





I understand where you are coming from, but if you read the early June 2005 archives you will clearly see that everyone  posting from Aruba implicates Lorenzo as the 5th suspect.  It's still conjecture, since there is not a definitive statement that places Paulus as the 5th suspect. The earliest posters placed Lorenzo right in the middle of this entire scenario. It is mentioned several times by posters such as Native Lingo and Americaninaruba.  I have wavered on both as being the 5th.  From reading the early posts, it indicates that it is Lorenzo long before Simian ever posted about the 5th suspect.  To me being a suspect doesn't mean the same as being arrested.  A person that needs to provide an alibi would be a suspect as well.  I am still on the fence with this one.

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left? Did Paulus run home from the casino after 8 PM to have a party?
Posted Jun 22, 5:03 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Beth Twitty and the Van der Sloots' Meet” | View Post
191.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week. Would Natalee have been interested in Paulus? 
Posted Jun 22, 5:00 PM


But why would you believe posters who have proved themselves to be untrustworthy with any information?

If you only assume suspects & not arrested then we have:
1. Lorenzo was questioned (not a suspect) and was given an alibi by Max Arrendz
2. Koen and Sander questioned
3. Andre Menses questioned
etc etc.

The fifth man, Paul van der Sloot  — the father of 17-year-old Joran — was being held on suspicion of complicity to pre-meditated murder, complicity to kidnapping and murder and kidnapping.
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,160654,00.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on August 06, 2007, 02:08:55 PM
The early posters, and I do mean within the first week, did not have the inside info that would have them assist in the cover up.  In fact, the ones I read had little to do with the investigation at all. The only person that could possibly be accused of assisting in the cover up would have been Native Lingo.  She was an insider.  The very earliest comments about parties and drugs involved Lorenzo.  That is what I am going by, not saying it's right, just saying that is what I have observed.  I know there are many that think I am way off base here and that Lorenzo had nothing to do with this at all.  I just think we should explore this as a possible scenario. 

Lorenzo was known to throw the parties at his houses. 
Lorenzo was the drug dealer of choice on the island.
Lorenzo could have some connection to the Sloots.
Lorenzo was kept out of the loop early on.  When his name began to come up in the beginning it was then quickly shushed into oblivion.
Lorenzo, until recently was the mystery man of the hour.

I can't connect the dots because I am too dumb in that regard.  I wish I could, but I can't. However, Tylergal has long contended that what happened to Natalee happened at the HI.  What she says makes sense too.  The alibi of bringing her back to the HI could have been concocted because they knew she could have been seen there. There is a history of some sort with that place.  She was targeted in their casino.  I could go on, but you get the message.  Both scenarios are highly possile.  Now, we have to find the one that is most probable. 

I believe the cover-up began the first night in the morning hours that Natalee disappeared.

Charles Croes got a phone call from a "major friend" and he meets Beth at the gas station and then disappears for 1 1/2 hours. The beach is 5 minutes from the gas station.
Paulus van der Sloot was online checking for an attorney and drug information
Joran, Deepak and most likely Freddy not Satish were at the Racquet Club eye witnessed by the gardner seen digging

the set up - cover-up began immediately.

What they had not planned on was Beth arriving so fast and doing her own investigating rather than relying on polis.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on August 06, 2007, 02:23:04 PM
Tony's Post
From the initials used it is clear that the friends are Steve Croes, Kalpoe brothers, Freddy A. and Michael Dompig.

Anyone know who the BL Gang is referring to??
The protectors are obviously Karin Jansen, Gerold Dompig and Van Der Stratten. IMO!

So who would be the owners?

The spelling may be off, but is that the bubba lecher gang that was discussed way back? 


tony says:
April 18th, 2006 at 4:18 am
I have been here since the beginning.
Does anyone know about the “bibba lekker’ gang? I saw it refferes to in many pctures of satish and deepaks friend websites
Connection


tony Says:
April 18th, 2006 at 12:54 pm
Bibba lekker gang, what is it and who was/is in it?
How do the underlings like JVS getting VIP passes and being able to drink and gamble on the island even after being caught doing just that night after night? How are they able to lie so much? How are they able to advertise themselves as pimps? Check tickle from the past and you will see them getting away with boasts of Pimping girls. I will tell you how they do it, they are protected by the aruba mob, made up of many “reputable” people.
I worked for a cruise ship for many years and saw a lot of island corruption, this is a case of very high corruption and very deep connections. I could show you a few places on St.Thomas that very few people know about. Same with Nassau and San Juan and even Aruba. Do you need some E ?want to know where the party is? Do you know who else goes to thes places? The top of the food chain runs all these places on each island and there are connections to the police and Government as well.
Can I make a reservation for the Lions Den? I didnt think so, invitation only is the rule. I see a lot more trouble than what is evident and that is why it is taking so long to come out. I see some scapegoating soon and possibly a sacrifice.
God bless Natalee and her spirit.
I curse everyone involved in her demise.
BIBBA LEKKER GANG is involved.



my comment -- I forget who -- but someone (Kermit? Grande" Carpe?) posted some pictures from myspace or tickle that had this 'club' in their bio. klaas probably remembers -- I don't at the moment.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on August 06, 2007, 02:40:46 PM
Thank you, Sharon.  I just realized 'bibba' but still would have spelled 'lekker' incorrectly.  Hopefully, someone will have or remember the link or pictures you mentioned. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: shadow on August 06, 2007, 02:52:16 PM
Thanks Sharon for the BL Gang information. Reading it now I vaguely remember this.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on August 06, 2007, 03:20:38 PM
lekker translates to 'nice' in dutch.

i have found many dutch links with 'lekker' in them -- but i don't think they have anything to do with the 'gang'.

i know it's been discussed here mucho. anyone look at sf's who's who yet?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: shadow on August 06, 2007, 03:36:46 PM
lekker translates to 'nice' in dutch.

i have found many dutch links with 'lekker' in them -- but i don't think they have anything to do with the 'gang'.

i know it's been discussed here mucho. anyone look at sf's who's who yet?

I haven't looked at the who's who in a while. I found the search difficult as well.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on August 06, 2007, 04:13:04 PM
I agree shadow :sad:

I only pop in and out when I'm working -- but everything is so slow for me on this site that I don't have time to do anything but watch the page load. :-?

Search not helpful for me either.

I'm hoping it will pass. It started out okay -- but gets slower and more difficult each day. I clear cookies several times a day. Nothing helps. Only this site.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 06, 2007, 04:34:15 PM


Quote
The fifth man, Paul van der Sloot  — the father of 17-year-old Joran — was being held on suspicion of complicity to pre-meditated murder, complicity to kidnapping and murder and kidnapping.
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,160654,00.html
Who the 5th suspect is, depends on the date, the events and the narrator.  From the Simian’s perspective, the 5th suspect is Lorenzo van Rijn.  “The Simian only reports developments ahead of time” and he was reporting in advance an assumption of implication and guilt when stating that the guy that hosted a party for all his friends was the boy friend from earlier in the week. Paulus arrived from The Netherlands Sunday afternoon.  He wasn’t around to be the alleged boyfriend #1.

By ALE’s record and the press, the 5th man is Paulus, because he was the 5th person detained under suspicion, after the initial two -the guards- were let go.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 06, 2007, 05:03:50 PM


Quote
The fifth man, Paul van der Sloot  — the father of 17-year-old Joran — was being held on suspicion of complicity to pre-meditated murder, complicity to kidnapping and murder and kidnapping.
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,160654,00.html
Who the 5th suspect is, depends on the date, the events and the narrator.  From the Simian’s perspective, the 5th suspect is Lorenzo van Rijn.  “The Simian only reports developments ahead of time” and he was reporting in advance an assumption of implication and guilt when stating that the guy that hosted a party for all his friends was the boy friend from earlier in the week. Paulus arrived from The Netherlands Sunday afternoon.  He wasn’t around to be the alleged boyfriend #1.

By ALE’s record and the press, the 5th man is Paulus, because he was the 5th person detained under suspicion, after the initial two -the guards- were let go.


You and I are thinking alike on this one.  I always worked on the assumption that Simian was referring to Lorenzo as the 5th suspect.  If Simian was telling us what the ALE was thinking, then you would have to believe ALE was of the belief that Lorenzo was involved.  Yet, they were not very aggessive in their pursuit of him.  The assumption that he was at home all night was due to a friend providing that alibi.  Even if he was at home that does not mean that Natalee was not brought to his home.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on August 06, 2007, 05:17:43 PM
I remember Tony's posts.  My brother has a close friend in the Netherlands (who thinks I'm nuts) that researched Bibba Lekker gang there and on Aruba.  If it was a gang, it was not big.  He found nothing.  At the time, I think we were trying to organize all the "pimping" hand signals.  I do believe there was a "backseat banger"/pimp component, but not as an organized gang.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 06, 2007, 05:27:20 PM
It does not say the 5th person arrested.  It says the 5th suspect.  That is my reasoning.   Which is obviously flawed.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on August 06, 2007, 06:48:20 PM
It does not say the 5th person arrested.  It says the 5th suspect.  That is my reasoning.   Which is obviously flawed.

Not flawed - we are all  just thinking outloud


If we consider suspects then we have to consider those that are suspects:

Is Lorenzo a suspect? I know he was brought in for questioning, but never heard him as a suspect.





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on August 06, 2007, 06:52:43 PM


Quote
The fifth man, Paul van der Sloot  — the father of 17-year-old Joran — was being held on suspicion of complicity to pre-meditated murder, complicity to kidnapping and murder and kidnapping.
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,160654,00.html
Who the 5th suspect is, depends on the date, the events and the narrator.  From the Simian’s perspective, the 5th suspect is Lorenzo van Rijn.  “The Simian only reports developments ahead of time” and he was reporting in advance an assumption of implication and guilt when stating that the guy that hosted a party for all his friends was the boy friend from earlier in the week. Paulus arrived from The Netherlands Sunday afternoon.  He wasn’t around to be the alleged boyfriend #1.

By ALE’s record and the press, the 5th man is Paulus, because he was the 5th person detained under suspicion, after the initial two -the guards- were let go.


What is interesting is this reference to a boyfriend.
The ONLY person I recall trying to pass off that lie about Natalee having met some guy who was her boyfriend is scubajap.

Perhaps this is part of the cover-up that Shango/Simian were involved in too - which is my suspicions from the beginning to do what the other American traitors have done and that is - derail and mislead the public from the truth.
We all are well aware of their lies and deceptions on the many blogs/websites. What makes us think that this insider Shango/Simian etc was not part of the whole deception?





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on August 06, 2007, 07:07:13 PM
I was still stuck on the bibba lekker gang and found another spelling possibility in urban dictionary...biba & lekker separately.  With that I did a search and found two comments in a Diario online guestbook both using biba lekker and the 2nd saying biba lekker gang.  Of course they are in papiamento, so the translations are over my head.

http://www.diarioaruba.com/guestbook/guests2000.html

nohay
diariokeepitup@hotmail.com
23 Aug 2000
08:37:27


awel ata nos ki, ami (kabubi ku mi brother ,sorry collega ,franchesco. Biba lekker kinan tras di inernet tur dia na trabao.BIBA LEKKER. Ta asina cos mester bai ku tur nos juinan di nos dushi isla AUA,paso intussentijd nos ta sinja masha hopi mes di nos trabao. Anto pa diari keep it up.Un fayo si ta ku bo ta un dia atras.Na Aruba bo no ta kumpra un corrant bieuw tampoco. bon peace out. Aki for di Masterdam!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Masterdam
Masterdam@hotmail.com
23 Aug 2000
08:30:19


Bms Mi no por kere cu aruba ta bayendo asina ki. yen di hodement5o ta kiko laga e cosnan pa nos aki na aHulaqnda studiante ki conjo esey tur hende ta kere drogando mastanto bms biba lekker gang Masterdam



www.urbandictionary.com


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Nut44x4 on August 06, 2007, 08:58:18 PM
Rough translation and I MEAN ROUGH!! LOL!!

awel behold we what, i (kabubi with my brother come across,sorry collega come across,franchesco. live lekker kinan behind inernet all day at trabao.biba lekker. is so cos have to go with all we juinan of we sweet island aua,paso intussentijd we is learn very much self of we trabao. then for diari keep it up.un damage if is to you is one day behind.na aruba do you do not buy one corrant bieuw niether. good peace out.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 here for of masterdam! bms my not can believe cu aruba is bayendo so what. complete of hodement5o is what let the cosnan for we here at ahulaqnda student what conjo esey everybody is believe drogando mastanto bms live lekker gang masterdam come across


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 06, 2007, 09:27:57 PM
It does not say the 5th person arrested.  It says the 5th suspect.  That is my reasoning.   Which is obviously flawed.

Not flawed - we are all  just thinking outloud


If we consider suspects then we have to consider those that are suspects:

Is Lorenzo a suspect? I know he was brought in for questioning, but never heard him as a suspect.






Why would a witness need to provide an alibi?  Only a suspect would need to do that.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: SuzieQ on August 06, 2007, 10:29:26 PM
Lala

Who was with Joran at the Greta interview( or one of the interviews, I forget) Was it Mighty T or his brother? I found a connection between Mighty T and Freddy's lawyer.

http://www.island-temptations.com/old/spring04/story5/

Diana Emerencia (Lady Eyes) was Freddy's lawyer.

Claudius Phillips (Mighty T.) could put words together like Shango.

Sorry I don't know how to put the link in, so you can just click on it.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: SuzieQ on August 06, 2007, 10:37:03 PM
I didn't think I knew how, apparently I do. Learn something new every day. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 07, 2007, 12:29:51 AM
Lala

Who was with Joran at the Greta interview( or one of the interviews, I forget) Was it Mighty T or his brother? I found a connection between Mighty T and Freddy's lawyer.

http://www.island-temptations.com/old/spring04/story5/

Diana Emerencia (Lady Eyes) was Freddy's lawyer.

Claudius Phillips (Mighty T.) could put words together like Shango.

Sorry I don't know how to put the link in, so you can just click on it.


I don't remember who was with Joran.  I bet Klaas does. Thanks for the link.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 07, 2007, 11:10:58 AM

You and I are thinking alike on this one.  I always worked on the assumption that Simian was referring to Lorenzo as the 5th suspect.  If Simian was telling us what the ALE was thinking, then you would have to believe ALE was of the belief that Lorenzo was involved.  Yet, they were not very aggessive in their pursuit of him.  The assumption that he was at home all night was due to a friend providing that alibi.  Even if he was at home that does not mean that Natalee was not brought to his home.

“If Simian was telling us what the ALE was thinking,”
The Simian was telling what he was informed, 2nd hand, 3rd hand, maybe even more hands between the original report and his comment to the board, plus he additionally adorned the information with his own personal views.  We don’t know how unfactual the reported facts were.

“...then you would have to believe ALE was of the believe that Lorenzo was involved.”
Undoubtedly, at that moment in time, ALE, the Simian and many more thought that Lorenzo was involved in the disappearance.  I am pretty sure that another poster from Aruba talked about Lorenzo before the Simian did.  That poster referred to a social outcast from Savaneta that drove around in a loud blue van.  I guess that others in addition to ALE, Simian and his informant, talked about Lorenzo as being involved… sounds like profiling.

“Yet, they were not very aggressive in their pursuit of him.”
If Lorenzo had an “airtight alibi” and all the partygoers were with him until Monday morning, then, what’s the sense in pursuing him?

“Even if he was at home doesn’t mean that Natalee was not brought to his home”.
True, Lorenzo being at home is not evidence of Natalee not being there.  But I have not heard or read of any “significant source” placing Natalee close to Lorenzo’s party, so why should we keep processing bogus data?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 07, 2007, 11:57:37 AM

You and I are thinking alike on this one.  I always worked on the assumption that Simian was referring to Lorenzo as the 5th suspect.  If Simian was telling us what the ALE was thinking, then you would have to believe ALE was of the belief that Lorenzo was involved.  Yet, they were not very aggessive in their pursuit of him.  The assumption that he was at home all night was due to a friend providing that alibi.  Even if he was at home that does not mean that Natalee was not brought to his home.

“If Simian was telling us what the ALE was thinking,”
The Simian was telling what he was informed, 2nd hand, 3rd hand, maybe even more hands between the original report and his comment to the board, plus he additionally adorned the information with his own personal views.  We don’t know how unfactual the reported facts were. True, only if you believe that Simian WAS NOT ALE.  Since it has been speculated that Simian could indeed be Clyde Burke, then this is not 2nd or 3rd hand info.  It is coming from a source that is inside.

“...then you would have to believe ALE was of the believe that Lorenzo was involved.”
Undoubtedly, at that moment in time, ALE, the Simian and many more thought that Lorenzo was involved in the disappearance.  I am pretty sure that another poster from Aruba talked about Lorenzo before the Simian did.  That poster referred to a social outcast from Savaneta that drove around in a loud blue van.  I guess that others in addition to ALE, Simian and his informant, talked about Lorenzo as being involved… sounds like profiling. I think the reason this is still bandied about is because Lorenzo was talked about on the blogs and forums very early in the case. Early enough that those who were in the know suspected his involvement.  If they were privy to info, then his name came up in some form.  

“Yet, they were not very aggressive in their pursuit of him.”
If Lorenzo had an “airtight alibi” and all the partygoers were with him until Monday morning, then, what’s the sense in pursuing him? Simian clearly states that the 5th suspect has an alibi.  He also goes on to state that others turned their heads so a not to provide additional info concerning the alibi. This tells me that Lorenzo, whether involved or not, wields some form of power in Aruba.  Thus his drug dealings with more dangerous people.

“Even if he was at home doesn’t mean that Natalee was not brought to his home”.
True, Lorenzo being at home is not evidence of Natalee not being there.  But I have not heard or read of any “significant source” placing Natalee close to Lorenzo’s party, so why should we keep processing bogus data? There is not evidence that JK2 killed Natalee and disposed of her body....your point being? Actually, Shango never mentions Lorenzo.  There are posters that try to find out about Lorenzo from Shango, but he never takes the bait.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Ree on August 07, 2007, 12:15:18 PM

You and I are thinking alike on this one.  I always worked on the assumption that Simian was referring to Lorenzo as the 5th suspect.  If Simian was telling us what the ALE was thinking, then you would have to believe ALE was of the belief that Lorenzo was involved.  Yet, they were not very aggessive in their pursuit of him.  The assumption that he was at home all night was due to a friend providing that alibi.  Even if he was at home that does not mean that Natalee was not brought to his home.

“If Simian was telling us what the ALE was thinking,”
The Simian was telling what he was informed, 2nd hand, 3rd hand, maybe even more hands between the original report and his comment to the board, plus he additionally adorned the information with his own personal views.  We don’t know how unfactual the reported facts were. True, only if you believe that Simian WAS NOT ALE.  Since it has been speculated that Simian could indeed be Clyde Burke, then this is not 2nd or 3rd hand info.  It is coming from a source that is inside. I'm not sure I agree with this.  He was not aware of the wiretap on Paulus.  So perhaps he was inside and close enough to know some of what was going on, but not all.

“...then you would have to believe ALE was of the believe that Lorenzo was involved.”
Undoubtedly, at that moment in time, ALE, the Simian and many more thought that Lorenzo was involved in the disappearance.  I am pretty sure that another poster from Aruba talked about Lorenzo before the Simian did.  That poster referred to a social outcast from Savaneta that drove around in a loud blue van.  I guess that others in addition to ALE, Simian and his informant, talked about Lorenzo as being involved… sounds like profiling. I think the reason this is still bandied about is because Lorenzo was talked about on the blogs and forums very early in the case. Early enough that those who were in the know suspected his involvement.  If they were privy to info, then his name came up in some form.  

“Yet, they were not very aggressive in their pursuit of him.”
If Lorenzo had an “airtight alibi” and all the partygoers were with him until Monday morning, then, what’s the sense in pursuing him? Simian clearly states that the 5th suspect has an alibi.  He also goes on to state that others turned their heads so a not to provide additional info concerning the alibi. This tells me that Lorenzo, whether involved or not, wields some form of power in Aruba.  Thus his drug dealings with more dangerous people.

“Even if he was at home doesn’t mean that Natalee was not brought to his home”.
True, Lorenzo being at home is not evidence of Natalee not being there.  But I have not heard or read of any “significant source” placing Natalee close to Lorenzo’s party, so why should we keep processing bogus data? There is not evidence that JK2 killed Natalee and disposed of her body....your point being? Actually, Shango never mentions Lorenzo.  There are posters that try to find out about Lorenzo from Shango, but he never takes the bait.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 07, 2007, 01:44:29 PM

You and I are thinking alike on this one.  I always worked on the assumption that Simian was referring to Lorenzo as the 5th suspect.  If Simian was telling us what the ALE was thinking, then you would have to believe ALE was of the belief that Lorenzo was involved.  Yet, they were not very aggessive in their pursuit of him.  The assumption that he was at home all night was due to a friend providing that alibi.  Even if he was at home that does not mean that Natalee was not brought to his home.

“If Simian was telling us what the ALE was thinking,”
The Simian was telling what he was informed, 2nd hand, 3rd hand, maybe even more hands between the original report and his comment to the board, plus he additionally adorned the information with his own personal views.  We don’t know how unfactual the reported facts were.

“...then you would have to believe ALE was of the believe that Lorenzo was involved.”
Undoubtedly, at that moment in time, ALE, the Simian and many more thought that Lorenzo was involved in the disappearance.  I am pretty sure that another poster from Aruba talked about Lorenzo before the Simian did.  That poster referred to a social outcast from Savaneta that drove around in a loud blue van.  I guess that others in addition to ALE, Simian and his informant, talked about Lorenzo as being involved… sounds like profiling.

“Yet, they were not very aggressive in their pursuit of him.”
If Lorenzo had an “airtight alibi” and all the partygoers were with him until Monday morning, then, what’s the sense in pursuing him?

“Even if he was at home doesn’t mean that Natalee was not brought to his home”.
True, Lorenzo being at home is not evidence of Natalee not being there.  But I have not heard or read of any “significant source” placing Natalee close to Lorenzo’s party, so why should we keep processing bogus data?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 07, 2007, 01:47:13 PM

You and I are thinking alike on this one.  I always worked on the assumption that Simian was referring to Lorenzo as the 5th suspect.  If Simian was telling us what the ALE was thinking, then you would have to believe ALE was of the belief that Lorenzo was involved.  Yet, they were not very aggessive in their pursuit of him.  The assumption that he was at home all night was due to a friend providing that alibi.  Even if he was at home that does not mean that Natalee was not brought to his home.

“If Simian was telling us what the ALE was thinking,”
The Simian was telling what he was informed, 2nd hand, 3rd hand, maybe even more hands between the original report and his comment to the board, plus he additionally adorned the information with his own personal views.  We don’t know how unfactual the reported facts were.

“...then you would have to believe ALE was of the believe that Lorenzo was involved.”
Undoubtedly, at that moment in time, ALE, the Simian and many more thought that Lorenzo was involved in the disappearance.  I am pretty sure that another poster from Aruba talked about Lorenzo before the Simian did.  That poster referred to a social outcast from Savaneta that drove around in a loud blue van.  I guess that others in addition to ALE, Simian and his informant, talked about Lorenzo as being involved… sounds like profiling.

“Yet, they were not very aggressive in their pursuit of him.”
If Lorenzo had an “airtight alibi” and all the partygoers were with him until Monday morning, then, what’s the sense in pursuing him?

“Even if he was at home doesn’t mean that Natalee was not brought to his home”.
True, Lorenzo being at home is not evidence of Natalee not being there.  But I have not heard or read of any “significant source” placing Natalee close to Lorenzo’s party, so why should we keep processing bogus data?


Probably because it has been very difficult to determine what is bogus and what is not.  The thread is about Simian and Shango and who they may have been posting about.  That's the only reason.

Personally, I have not idea if Lorenzo is involved.  He was questioned, therefore he will be discussed.  And based on Simian's posts, it appears that he was speaking about Lorenzo.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on August 07, 2007, 01:55:53 PM
It does not say the 5th person arrested.  It says the 5th suspect.  That is my reasoning.   Which is obviously flawed.

Not flawed - we are all  just thinking outloud


If we consider suspects then we have to consider those that are suspects:

Is Lorenzo a suspect? I know he was brought in for questioning, but never heard him as a suspect.






Why would a witness need to provide an alibi?  Only a suspect would need to do that.


Then is Andre Menses and everyone else that made statements - suspects?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on August 07, 2007, 01:57:38 PM
Proof the cover-up began early on as we know now that the lies that Natalee was in love with a Dutch boy was started online by scubajap.

http://rjames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=842

Reports of a newspaper article published 9/28/05 in "Solo di Pueblo" say an Aruban cab driver transported Natalee Holloway a friend and 2 guys in his cab the Friday before she went missing. The guys were apparantly angry at Natalee because she said she had fallen in love with a Dutch boy (not Joran) she met on Aruba.Could this be the "someone" she met earlier in the week that Joran thinks Natalee ran away with?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on August 07, 2007, 02:31:54 PM
(http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/9914/bibalekker2lw5.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on August 07, 2007, 02:33:32 PM
(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6819/michaelbibalekkerganglevg7.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on August 07, 2007, 02:36:01 PM
Forgot to add the names to those two pictures above:

Michael Biba Lekker Gang Leader


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on August 07, 2007, 02:48:31 PM
luv u kermie  :smt052


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 07, 2007, 05:47:41 PM
True, only if you believe that Simian WAS NOT ALE.  Since it has been speculated that Simian could indeed be Clyde Burke, then this is not 2nd or 3rd hand info.  It is coming from a source that is inside.

If Simian is Burke and Burke had first hand info, he wouldn’t have had to wait for phone calls in order to report developments. 


Quote
Simian clearly states that the 5th suspect has an alibi.  He also goes on to state that others turned their heads so a not to provide additional info concerning the alibi...

I read the Simian posts "Donated by Enigma" version and nowhere have I found mention of the above.

Quote
There is not evidence that JK2 killed Natalee and disposed of her body....your point being? A

If any “significant source” (member of the family, hired private investigator, self-appointed friend of the family, lawyer), had the slightest suspicion or information pertaining to Natalee being at Lorenzo’s party, we would still be hearing about it. 




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 07, 2007, 05:49:46 PM
Probably because it has been very difficult to determine what is bogus and what is not.  The thread is about Simian and Shango and who they may have been posting about.  That's the only reason.

Personally, I have not idea if Lorenzo is involved.  He was questioned, therefore he will be discussed.  And based on Simian's posts, it appears that he was speaking about Lorenzo.

I understand.  But once one knows with a pretty high degree of certainty that a route is a cul-de-sac, one can either keep going back and forth or exit, to look for an alternative road. 

At one point one has to be willing to conclude that Lorenzo is no longer a suspect candidate, given the “airtight” alibi, the developments of the case post Simian and that people that possess more direct information than we do -like family and pro-family communicators- have not placed Natalee at his place the night she disappeared.

Involving Lorenzo is an additional variable that enhances the narrative aspects of the case, but doesn’t contribute to clarifying critical events surrounding the disappearance.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 07, 2007, 06:58:27 PM
It does not say the 5th person arrested.  It says the 5th suspect.  That is my reasoning.   Which is obviously flawed.

Not flawed - we are all  just thinking outloud


If we consider suspects then we have to consider those that are suspects:

Is Lorenzo a suspect? I know he was brought in for questioning, but never heard him as a suspect.






Why would a witness need to provide an alibi?  Only a suspect would need to do that.


Then is Andre Menses and everyone else that made statements - suspects?


Were they asked to provide alibi for the night in question or were they simply asked to confirm or deny certain things?  If you think the person Simian is referring to as the 5th suspect is Paulus...then you have to say also that he was the so called boyfriend from earlier in the week. I know there is no earlier in the week because they were only there for a few days, but if you discuss Simian and Shango you have to go on what they are saying and Simian clearly is saying a boyfriend from earlier in the week.  I think the term boyfriend is another way of saying a guy friend.  There is evidence that Natalee did indeed have some type of contact with a person outside their group.  I think it's in a 302.  If this is true, do you not think that had it been Paulus we would know about it by now?  I think whomever it was, was not someone that those kids could readily identify at the time.  This is of course my reasoning from all these months of just plain thinking about it all.  As I said...it is most likely flawed. There were certain people that would be asked for an alibi and those people would be suspects.  Doesn't mean they were arrested or charged with any thing.


BTW I don't necessarily agree that Simian was ALE...I will just leave it there for now.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 07, 2007, 10:50:50 PM
True, only if you believe that Simian WAS NOT ALE.  Since it has been speculated that Simian could indeed be Clyde Burke, then this is not 2nd or 3rd hand info.  It is coming from a source that is inside.

If Simian is Burke and Burke had first hand info, he wouldn’t have had to wait for phone calls in order to report developments. 


Quote
Simian clearly states that the 5th suspect has an alibi.  He also goes on to state that others turned their heads so a not to provide additional info concerning the alibi...

I read the Simian posts "Donated by Enigma" version and nowhere have I found mention of the above.

Quote
There is not evidence that JK2 killed Natalee and disposed of her body....your point being? A

If any “significant source” (member of the family, hired private investigator, self-appointed friend of the family, lawyer), had the slightest suspicion or information pertaining to Natalee being at Lorenzo’s party, we would still be hearing about it. 




It's obvious you and I will never agree on this so I am not going to pursue it any more.  Simian clearly states the raves need to be pinched.  That tells me they were there and knew what happened.  To me that is the same as turning their heads to the truth.  I am not the person that postulated that Burke was Simian that came from elsewhere. I have never claimed that I believed that Burke was Simian. I have never claimed that I believe any of this stuff...it's just interesting to compare what was happening to what they have stated.  Hindsight is always 20/20.  Simian is the only one that mentions a 5th suspect, so I am confused what you mean it isn't there.

 I think I am hanging up my tango shoes, this thread is wearing thin on me and I am tired maybe someone else will argue the point with you. Lorenzo was clearly suspected early on.  You choose what you will.  I can't prove it anymore than I can prove that Shango was not on Aruba and was a total idiot.  The entire point is to discuss it, I see there is no sense in trying to dissuade you from your point.  To each his own.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 07, 2007, 10:52:58 PM
Just one more thing....everything in this case is not as cut and dried as some think.  I know there are those that love the KISS theory, but the more I see the more I don't think it can apply here.  JMO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on August 07, 2007, 11:23:59 PM
luv u kermie  :smt052

awwww sucks. love you too.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on August 07, 2007, 11:26:47 PM
[b]OH LALA'smom - I FOUND SOMETHING FOR YOU - THAT SAYS - YOU ARE CORRECTOMUNDO![/b]

This was from the question/answer that Tito Lacle did at SM. When asked about Lorenzo being brought in for questioning. The question was asked by I Hear Shango about Lorenzo being brought in and this is Tito's reply[/b]


IamTito
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Location: aruba
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:31 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
shango..

He was considered a possible suspect..


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on August 07, 2007, 11:30:08 PM

Shango Says: June 30th, 2005 at 1:49 am
If the head of the beast is in plain view it is folly to attack protected flanks.

Shango Says: June 30th, 2005 at 2:11 am
All Secrets are hidden in Plain View


Brickell Bay Beach Club
http://www.brickellbayaruba.com/

a criminal enterprise that profits from gambling/narcotics/moneylaundering


" ... Guests at Brickell Bay have use of the beach by the Wyndham ... "

the Wyndham is where Paulus led Beth from his home to find Joran. But Joran was not at the wyndham!


Remember how Joran and his friends had a room at the Marriott.....(the picture with the belt around the boys neck was taken at a Marriott in Aruba)


ashley79 Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 42 Birmingham, AL
Posted on: 1:37 pm, May 31, 2005
She left with a guy from Carlos and Charlie's, and the cops found out that he is a local drug dealer.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g147247-i144-k158081-o350-Aruba.html

________________________________________________________________


Michael POSNER is also the owner of Brickel Bay Beach Club in Aruba, as well as, multiple online gambling sites affiliated with the Excelsior Casino.

When asked about Michael Posner Tito Lacle said:
TITO: HE LEFT THE ISLAND BUT REASONS UNKNOWN.. HE ALSO OWNS A COUPLE OF OTHER PLACES ON THE ISLAND. HIS NAME IS MICHEAL POSNER.


This is typical money laundering method:
Have a guest that is non-existant.

Perhaps a Marriott Execuitve would have that kind of power to comp rooms and no one knows.



"a hotel employee posted something about it in June last year"

____________________________________________________________________

 #699 ALLYINMIAMI

http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html


i am sure u all have already seen this, but it is a great source. Columbo=several connections. Brickell Bay Drive in MIAMI, is a huge real estate market; very lucrative. In addition to that “PIPKIN†(douglas) was one of the initial buyers when the area was first becoming developed. A (Posner) and Pipkin (nickname) Redbo, were in the Military together. Both placed bets at the track here in Miami, last Spring..on the same race. This seems to be at the approximate time that the VDS were here.
Wednesday, February 22, 2006 at 10:12 pm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 08, 2007, 09:53:43 AM
Probably because it has been very difficult to determine what is bogus and what is not.  The thread is about Simian and Shango and who they may have been posting about.  That's the only reason.

Personally, I have not idea if Lorenzo is involved.  He was questioned, therefore he will be discussed.  And based on Simian's posts, it appears that he was speaking about Lorenzo.

I understand.  But once one knows with a pretty high degree of certainty that a route is a cul-de-sac, one can either keep going back and forth or exit, to look for an alternative road. 

At one point one has to be willing to conclude that Lorenzo is no longer a suspect candidate, given the “airtight” alibi, the developments of the case post Simian and that people that possess more direct information than we do -like family and pro-family communicators- have not placed Natalee at his place the night she disappeared.

Involving Lorenzo is an additional variable that enhances the narrative aspects of the case, but doesn’t contribute to clarifying critical events surrounding the disappearance.


I haven't seen anything in either Simian or Shango that CLEARLY identifies anyone except that 'Dirty Hand' is the 'Chief of Polis' which is a Shango post.  So by your logic, all of it is a 'cul-de-sac'. LOL

As far as Simian, I do not believe he is Clyde Burke, but I do believe someone close to the investigation was talking the person posting as Simian.  Therefore, as I said earlier, I do believe reading the Simian posts provides some level of insight into what direction ALE was headed during that time.  With that said, the 5th suspect in the Simian posts does not appear to be Paulus in my opinion...unless Paulus had a party that night.  It was known that Lorenzo hosted a party that night because that has been part of the alibi, which I should add was provided by his 'friends'.   In my mind this still makes Lorenzo a possible suspect.

The fact that we have not seen any hard evidence that Natalee was ever at Lorenzo's house does not necessarily mean she wasn't.  The idea that we would have been told this is just as much speculation as anything we try to interpret from the posts.  After all, even Nadira Kalpoe will tell you, everyone lies...even big people lie.  Given what little we do know as fact, that Natalee left with Joran and the Kalpoes and they initially lied about where they left her, the only other things we have are Joran's subsequent proven lies and what little information was formally released by ALE.  Everything else leads us all into that cul-de-sac because until ALE, Joran, the Kalpoes, and the MB students ALL tell the truth there is nothing to do but speculate.  Therefore, we have a thread just to discuss those cryptic Simian and Shango posts.

Glad you were able to join us!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 08, 2007, 11:05:06 AM
Stom
Please tell me how you would clarify the events?  What would you base your assumptions on?  According to your way of thinking there can be no revisiting of any aspect once it has been determined to some extent that it is a dead end.  Given that premise, I think that since there is no one to identify Satish as being in the back seat of that car near the pond we can eliminate him as a suspect .  Therefore we should not discuss him any longer due to the fact that a witness says they did not see him there.  It would place him solely at home and away from the actions of body disposal or burial or clean up.  The witness only said there was a 3rd person in the back seat.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on August 08, 2007, 02:42:39 PM
Posted by Destiny in the LCD thread and moved here:

RE: SHANGO

I will need a MOD to either put this in it's proper place or delete it....Thanks Dest ;-)

Santeria: Religion of the Masses

    March 06, 2002
    By Dr. Kwame Nantambu

    The name by which the religion is now most commonly known, "Santeria," is a pejorative term first applied by the Spanish to the religious practices of the peasantry. It was used as a derogatory reference to the unusual amount of devotion and attention paid to the Catholic Saints, often in preference to Jesus Christ. This term was again used in Cuba to identify the "pagan" religion. The Yoruba devotion to the Orishas, who were often referred to as "Santos" ("saints") by both slave and slave-owners, was mistakenly seen as the "fanatical" worship of demigods and the neglect of "God."

    Therefore, the demeaning term "Santeria" was ascribed to the religious practices of the so-called "savages." Only in recent years, after having the label applied by outsiders for an extended period of time as the term began to be used by members of the religion.

    Santeria or La Regla Lucumi originated in West Africa in what is now Nigeria and Benin. It is the traditional religion of the Yoruba peoples. The European slave trade brought many of these people to the shores of Cuba, Brazil, Haiti, Trinidad and Puerto Rico, among others. But along with the bodies being brought over for sale into a life of misery, something else was being brought along, namely their souls and their religion.

    The God Olorun interacts with the world and humankind through emissaries. These emissaries are called Orishas. The Orishas rule over every force of nature and every aspect of human life. They are approachable and can be counted on to come to the aid of their followers, guiding them to a better life, materially as well as spiritually.

    Communication between Orishas and humankind is accomplished through ritual, prayer, divination and ebo or offerings (which include sacrifice). Songs, rhythms, and trance possessions are also means with which followers and believers interact with the Orishas and how they are able to affect their day to day lives so that they may lead deeper and fuller lives during their stay in this world.

    In the New World, the Orishas and much of the religion was hidden behind a façade of Catholicism with the Orishas themselves represented by various saints. The slave owners would then say: "look at how pious this slave is. She spends all of ter time worshipping Saint Barbara." Unbeknownst to them, the slave would actually be praying to Shango, the Lord of Lighting, fire and the dance, perhaps even praying for deliverance from that very slave owner.

    This how the religion came to be known as Santeria. The memory of this period of Afrikan history is also why many in our religion regard the term Santeria as derogatory. The traditions of Santeria are fiercely preserved and full knowledge of the rites, songs, and language are prerequisites to any deep involvement in the religion.

    Initiates must follow a strict regimen and are answerable to Olorun and the Orishas for their actions. As a person passes through each initiation in the tradition, this knowledge deepens and their abilities and responsibilities grow accordingly. In fact, during the first year of their initiation into the priesthood, the initiate or Iyawo or 'bride' of the Orisha must dress in white for an entire year.

    The Iyawo must not look into a mirror, touch anyone or allow to be touched, and they may not wear makeup, or go out at night for this year. Santeria is a syncretistic religion of Caribbean origin. It incorporates the worship of the Orisha (literally "head guardian") and beliefs of the Yoruba and Bantu people in Southern Nigeria, Senegal and Guinea Coast. These are combined with elements of worship from Roman Catholicism.

    Its origins date back to the European slave trade when Yorubas were forcibly transported from Afrika to the Caribbean. They were typically baptized by the Roman Catholic Church upon arrival, and their native practices were suppressed. However, they developed a novel way of keeping their old beliefs alive by substituting each Orisha of their traditional Afrikan religions with a corresponding Euro-Christian Saint.

    Many traditions within the religion recognize different equivalencies. One common example include:
    Babalz Ayi became St. Lazarus (patron of the sick)
    Shango became St. Barbara (controls thunder, lightning, fire.)
    Eleggua or Elegba became St. Anthony (controls roads, gates, etc.)
    Obatala became Our Lady of Las Merceds, and the Resurredted Christ
    (father of creation; source of spirituality)
    Oggzn became St. Peter (patron of war)
    Oshzn became Our Lady of Charity (controls money, sensuality.)

    Santeria is currently concentrated in:
    Cuba and other Caribbean islands and the Hispanic population in Florida, New Jersey, New York City and Los Angeles in the United States, Argentina, Brazil, Columbia, Mexico, Venezuela, France, the Netherlands and Puerto Rico.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: SunnyinTX on August 08, 2007, 03:33:48 PM
Good Afternoon to all the shango/simian fans.

I have a couple questions. As most of you know I am not a shango/simian follower, but don't knock anyone who is.

If either knew anything,(and I am not saying they did or didn't know anything),  why the mumbo jumbo? why not just tell what they knew, collect the reward and help obtain justice.

And why did they disappear?

I am interested in reading what you think about these questions.  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 08, 2007, 04:59:26 PM
Good Afternoon to all the shango/simian fans.

I have a couple questions. As most of you know I am not a shango/simian follower, but don't knock anyone who is.

If either knew anything,(and I am not saying they did or didn't know anything),  why the mumbo jumbo? why not just tell what they knew, collect the reward and help obtain justice.

And why did they disappear?

I am interested in reading what you think about these questions.  TIA

Hey Sunny!,

Must be a slow day on LCD.  lol  Why else come here and ask?  I'm sure you have asked before, but I'll give you my take on it.

Whether or not either of these posters knew anymore than the rest of us is anyone's guess.  Absent real facts, studying and discussing these two posters is not any different than posting opinons in the LCD.  Everything is an assumption, isn't it?

For Simian, you could make the argument that he was getting information from someone close the the 'investigation' because he posted things that could later be verified as activity by ALE.  So at least there is some insight into what was going on at that level.  His posts became a bit more cryptic which could be argued as a need to not be so obvious as directed by his source.  Or it could be that ALE was getting a little unnerved that someone was providing information to the bloggers that they did not want put out there.

Shango, on the other hand is a bit more difficult.  If Shango really knew something I will be totally pizzed off because he should have taken what he knew to someone who could actually do something about it.  If Shango, on the other hand, knew something and was afraid to be identified because of any reprecussions that may have, he would be more cryptic so as not to give himself up.  That may be a little out there, but then so are some of the theories that get passed around without substantial evidence to support them.  We are all doing that so what difference is it for Shango to do it in a riddle format?  One thing seems certain, Shango is weaving a picture of corruption, which is lin ine with a lot of what I see on LCD.

Does this answer the question?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 08, 2007, 05:18:25 PM

It's obvious you and I will never agree on this so I am not going to pursue it any more.  Simian clearly states the raves need to be pinched.  That tells me they were there and knew what happened.  To me that is the same as turning their heads to the truth.  I am not the person that postulated that Burke was Simian that came from elsewhere. I have never claimed that I believed that Burke was Simian. I have never claimed that I believe any of this stuff...it's just interesting to compare what was happening to what they have stated.  Hindsight is always 20/20.  Simian is the only one that mentions a 5th suspect, so I am confused what you mean it isn't there.

 I think I am hanging up my tango shoes, this thread is wearing thin on me and I am tired maybe someone else will argue the point with you. Lorenzo was clearly suspected early on.  You choose what you will.  I can't prove it anymore than I can prove that Shango was not on Aruba and was a total idiot.  The entire point is to discuss it, I see there is no sense in trying to dissuade you from your point.  To each his own.  :roll:

It’s fine not to agree, and in consequence, I don’t believe hindsight is ever 20/20.  Whenever analyzing backwards, information is always incomplete, but we tend to feel a false notion that in the present we posses the knowledge that would have allowed us to make a better thought process, in order to obtain a more desirable result, in the past.  That is just pure BS…knowledge about the past is as imperfect as about the future, and it doesn’t give us the capacity to explain a group of facts any better than before they took place.  If doubtful about this, just count how many times you have made the same essential mistake over and over.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 08, 2007, 05:22:22 PM
Just one more thing....everything in this case is not as cut and dried as some think.  I know there are those that love the KISS theory, but the more I see the more I don't think it can apply here.  JMO

Keep It Shrewd and Sharp or the another definition?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 08, 2007, 05:23:36 PM

It's obvious you and I will never agree on this so I am not going to pursue it any more.  Simian clearly states the raves need to be pinched.  That tells me they were there and knew what happened.  To me that is the same as turning their heads to the truth.  I am not the person that postulated that Burke was Simian that came from elsewhere. I have never claimed that I believed that Burke was Simian. I have never claimed that I believe any of this stuff...it's just interesting to compare what was happening to what they have stated.  Hindsight is always 20/20.  Simian is the only one that mentions a 5th suspect, so I am confused what you mean it isn't there.

 I think I am hanging up my tango shoes, this thread is wearing thin on me and I am tired maybe someone else will argue the point with you. Lorenzo was clearly suspected early on.  You choose what you will.  I can't prove it anymore than I can prove that Shango was not on Aruba and was a total idiot.  The entire point is to discuss it, I see there is no sense in trying to dissuade you from your point.  To each his own.  :roll:

It’s fine not to agree, and in consequence, I don’t believe hindsight is ever 20/20.  Whenever analyzing backwards, information is always incomplete, but we tend to feel a false notion that in the present we posses the knowledge that would have allowed us to make a better thought process, in order to obtain a more desirable result, in the past.  That is just pure BS…knowledge about the past is as imperfect as about the future, and it doesn’t give us the capacity to explain a group of facts any better than before they took place.  If doubtful about this, just count how many times you have made the same essential mistake over and over.

I repectfully have to disagree with you here.  The saying 'hindsight is 20/20' DOES mean you can see what happened after the fact when the situation is truly resolved.  Making the same mistake over and over can be, and probably is, a result of stom_ity or hard-headedness.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 08, 2007, 05:37:15 PM

I haven't seen anything in either Simian or Shango that CLEARLY identifies anyone except that 'Dirty Hand' is the 'Chief of Polis' which is a Shango post.  So by your logic, all of it is a 'cul-de-sac'. LOL

As far as Simian, I do not believe he is Clyde Burke, but I do believe someone close to the investigation was talking the person posting as Simian.  Therefore, as I said earlier, I do believe reading the Simian posts provides some level of insight into what direction ALE was headed during that time.  With that said, the 5th suspect in the Simian posts does not appear to be Paulus in my opinion...unless Paulus had a party that night.  It was known that Lorenzo hosted a party that night because that has been part of the alibi, which I should add was provided by his 'friends'.   In my mind this still makes Lorenzo a possible suspect.

The fact that we have not seen any hard evidence that Natalee was ever at Lorenzo's house does not necessarily mean she wasn't.  The idea that we would have been told this is just as much speculation as anything we try to interpret from the posts.  After all, even Nadira Kalpoe will tell you, everyone lies...even big people lie.  Given what little we do know as fact, that Natalee left with Joran and the Kalpoes and they initially lied about where they left her, the only other things we have are Joran's subsequent proven lies and what little information was formally released by ALE.  Everything else leads us all into that cul-de-sac because until ALE, Joran, the Kalpoes, and the MB students ALL tell the truth there is nothing to do but speculate.  Therefore, we have a thread just to discuss those cryptic Simian and Shango posts.

Glad you were able to join us!

I don’t think Shango identified anyone.  Assuming for a moment that they were indeed trying to provide well intended information, then we have to consider the comments that brought about the believe that Dirty Hand is the Chief of Police:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simian thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew he girl.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon
the girl knew this
Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.
But not to satiate desire.

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.

Shango Says:June 27th, 2005 at 4:00 am

Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting

We have that Simian and Shango, fraud or not, both knew what Babylonian means and Simian thought funny that Babalu was clueless about who the Babylonians are.  Babalu took a shot at guessing the Shango 9:53 pm post, and afterwards Shango emits the “opened a window” comment, but never made a confirmation about Dirty Hand being any or none of several Chiefs of Police of different ranks, within the Aruban Police Department.  So we ended up with a case of conjecture based on defective premises.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 08, 2007, 05:42:13 PM
Stom
Please tell me how you would clarify the events?  What would you base your assumptions on?  According to your way of thinking there can be no revisiting of any aspect once it has been determined to some extent that it is a dead end.  Given that premise, I think that since there is no one to identify Satish as being in the back seat of that car near the pond we can eliminate him as a suspect .  Therefore we should not discuss him any longer due to the fact that a witness says they did not see him there.  It would place him solely at home and away from the actions of body disposal or burial or clean up.  The witness only said there was a 3rd person in the back seat.

Clarifying events is a personal choice process whereby one discards information considered useless.  Lorenzo, Shango and plenty of peripheral information about Aruba forcefully assumed as meaningful to the case, only serve to reduce objectivity and increase analysis devoid of substance.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 08, 2007, 05:55:06 PM

It's obvious you and I will never agree on this so I am not going to pursue it any more.  Simian clearly states the raves need to be pinched.  That tells me they were there and knew what happened.  To me that is the same as turning their heads to the truth.  I am not the person that postulated that Burke was Simian that came from elsewhere. I have never claimed that I believed that Burke was Simian. I have never claimed that I believe any of this stuff...it's just interesting to compare what was happening to what they have stated.  Hindsight is always 20/20.  Simian is the only one that mentions a 5th suspect, so I am confused what you mean it isn't there.

 I think I am hanging up my tango shoes, this thread is wearing thin on me and I am tired maybe someone else will argue the point with you. Lorenzo was clearly suspected early on.  You choose what you will.  I can't prove it anymore than I can prove that Shango was not on Aruba and was a total idiot.  The entire point is to discuss it, I see there is no sense in trying to dissuade you from your point.  To each his own.  :roll:

It’s fine not to agree, and in consequence, I don’t believe hindsight is ever 20/20.  Whenever analyzing backwards, information is always incomplete, but we tend to feel a false notion that in the present we posses the knowledge that would have allowed us to make a better thought process, in order to obtain a more desirable result, in the past.  That is just pure BS…knowledge about the past is as imperfect as about the future, and it doesn’t give us the capacity to explain a group of facts any better than before they took place.  If doubtful about this, just count how many times you have made the same essential mistake over and over.

I repectfully have to disagree with you here.  The saying 'hindsight is 20/20' DOES mean you can see what happened after the fact when the situation is truly resolved.  Making the same mistake over and over can be, and probably is, a result of stom_ity or hard-headedness.

Maybe...but maybe "hindsight is 20/20" is just a cliché, and it may very well be also that more than one of us suffers from stom_ity.  I am willing to bet millions of us.  But if it just me, so be it. 

I'll leave you guys until tomorrow.  Time to head for work.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 08, 2007, 06:47:26 PM
Stom
Please tell me how you would clarify the events?  What would you base your assumptions on?  According to your way of thinking there can be no revisiting of any aspect once it has been determined to some extent that it is a dead end.  Given that premise, I think that since there is no one to identify Satish as being in the back seat of that car near the pond we can eliminate him as a suspect .  Therefore we should not discuss him any longer due to the fact that a witness says they did not see him there.  It would place him solely at home and away from the actions of body disposal or burial or clean up.  The witness only said there was a 3rd person in the back seat.

Clarifying events is a personal choice process whereby one discards information considered useless.  Lorenzo, Shango and plenty of peripheral information about Aruba forcefully assumed as meaningful to the case, only serve to reduce objectivity and increase analysis devoid of substance.
What would you be discussing as of substance to this case? Please list this for me as I am obviously missing your point. Again, if you go with your premise then anything that is not verifiable as a definite fact does not fit your criteria. Then please refrain from discussing the Aru Bay videos, the witness statement of the gardener, some think it's unreliable also. Which PV of Joran's would you choose to discard?  The first lie or the subsequent ones that we know contain various lies and inconsistencies.  If you think one is a lie then all are a lie.  I happen to think there is a grain of truth in each of them. Oh yes, let's please refrain from any discussion of things we only think happened and concentrate on only what we know.  Maybe that is why this case hasn't been solved?  No one has bothered to nit pick the details to uncover the truth. 

In case you didn't notice this is the Shango/Simian thread.  That is why it's here to analyze these riddles and posts.  If you seek anything other than clarity of these two maybe you should try posting on the LCD.  They discuss more than just Shango over there. Beware though, we talk Simian and Shango there also. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 08, 2007, 08:03:18 PM

I haven't seen anything in either Simian or Shango that CLEARLY identifies anyone except that 'Dirty Hand' is the 'Chief of Polis' which is a Shango post.  So by your logic, all of it is a 'cul-de-sac'. LOL

As far as Simian, I do not believe he is Clyde Burke, but I do believe someone close to the investigation was talking the person posting as Simian.  Therefore, as I said earlier, I do believe reading the Simian posts provides some level of insight into what direction ALE was headed during that time.  With that said, the 5th suspect in the Simian posts does not appear to be Paulus in my opinion...unless Paulus had a party that night.  It was known that Lorenzo hosted a party that night because that has been part of the alibi, which I should add was provided by his 'friends'.   In my mind this still makes Lorenzo a possible suspect.

The fact that we have not seen any hard evidence that Natalee was ever at Lorenzo's house does not necessarily mean she wasn't.  The idea that we would have been told this is just as much speculation as anything we try to interpret from the posts.  After all, even Nadira Kalpoe will tell you, everyone lies...even big people lie.  Given what little we do know as fact, that Natalee left with Joran and the Kalpoes and they initially lied about where they left her, the only other things we have are Joran's subsequent proven lies and what little information was formally released by ALE.  Everything else leads us all into that cul-de-sac because until ALE, Joran, the Kalpoes, and the MB students ALL tell the truth there is nothing to do but speculate.  Therefore, we have a thread just to discuss those cryptic Simian and Shango posts.

Glad you were able to join us!

I don’t think Shango identified anyone.  Assuming for a moment that they were indeed trying to provide well intended information, then we have to consider the comments that brought about the believe that Dirty Hand is the Chief of Police:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simian thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew he girl.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon
the girl knew this
Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.
But not to satiate desire.

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.

Shango Says:June 27th, 2005 at 4:00 am

Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting

We have that Simian and Shango, fraud or not, both knew what Babylonian means and Simian thought funny that Babalu was clueless about who the Babylonians are.  Babalu took a shot at guessing the Shango 9:53 pm post, and afterwards Shango emits the “opened a window” comment, but never made a confirmation about Dirty Hand being any or none of several Chiefs of Police of different ranks, within the Aruban Police Department.  So we ended up with a case of conjecture based on defective premises.


Let's not confuse the identity quest of the poster of that time. 

Bablu posted this to Shango, to which Shango did not reply:

Babalú on June 26th, 2005 9:47 pm
Shango
I read something about ganbanging a 14 yr. old tourist and filming it. But this was not attributed to the duo of Babylonians, but to another group of kids, including Van Rijn, Aredszetc.


Simian chose to respond in this manner:

Simian on June 26th, 2005 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew he girl.


Interesting when you read this because Simian chided Babalu about his attempt to name 'Babylonians', yet Simian only tried to leave a Shango clue in "The gamblers knew the girl".  Simian does not try to id the Babylonians.

Shango confirmed the statement of Babalu here:

Shango Says:June 27th, 2005 at 4:00 am
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting


and again:

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting



based on Bablu's post of:

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.



Shango confirms this again when responding to Drax:

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:01 pm
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.


who posted:

drax on June 27th, 2005 10:57 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze:…is DirtyHand Poppa VDS?


At know time did Shango provide an affirmative response to the question of Dirty Hand expect to Babalu.






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: SunnyinTX on August 09, 2007, 10:18:14 AM
Good Afternoon to all the shango/simian fans.

I have a couple questions. As most of you know I am not a shango/simian follower, but don't knock anyone who is.

If either knew anything,(and I am not saying they did or didn't know anything),  why the mumbo jumbo? why not just tell what they knew, collect the reward and help obtain justice.

And why did they disappear?

I am interested in reading what you think about these questions.  TIA

Hey Sunny!,

Must be a slow day on LCD.  lol  Why else come here and ask?  I'm sure you have asked before, but I'll give you my take on it.

Whether or not either of these posters knew anymore than the rest of us is anyone's guess.  Absent real facts, studying and discussing these two posters is not any different than posting opinons in the LCD.  Everything is an assumption, isn't it?

For Simian, you could make the argument that he was getting information from someone close the the 'investigation' because he posted things that could later be verified as activity by ALE.  So at least there is some insight into what was going on at that level.  His posts became a bit more cryptic which could be argued as a need to not be so obvious as directed by his source.  Or it could be that ALE was getting a little unnerved that someone was providing information to the bloggers that they did not want put out there.

Shango, on the other hand is a bit more difficult.  If Shango really knew something I will be totally pizzed off because he should have taken what he knew to someone who could actually do something about it.  If Shango, on the other hand, knew something and was afraid to be identified because of any reprecussions that may have, he would be more cryptic so as not to give himself up.  That may be a little out there, but then so are some of the theories that get passed around without substantial evidence to support them.  We are all doing that so what difference is it for Shango to do it in a riddle format?  One thing seems certain, Shango is weaving a picture of corruption, which is lin ine with a lot of what I see on LCD.

Does this answer the question?

Hi Truth.....just for the record...I have not asked before...and I asked it here since this is the S&S thread....thanks for your reply...I will not make this mistake again...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 09, 2007, 10:28:05 AM
Good Afternoon to all the shango/simian fans.

I have a couple questions. As most of you know I am not a shango/simian follower, but don't knock anyone who is.

If either knew anything,(and I am not saying they did or didn't know anything),  why the mumbo jumbo? why not just tell what they knew, collect the reward and help obtain justice.

And why did they disappear?

I am interested in reading what you think about these questions.  TIA

Hey Sunny!,

Must be a slow day on LCD.  lol  Why else come here and ask?  I'm sure you have asked before, but I'll give you my take on it.

Whether or not either of these posters knew anymore than the rest of us is anyone's guess.  Absent real facts, studying and discussing these two posters is not any different than posting opinons in the LCD.  Everything is an assumption, isn't it?

For Simian, you could make the argument that he was getting information from someone close the the 'investigation' because he posted things that could later be verified as activity by ALE.  So at least there is some insight into what was going on at that level.  His posts became a bit more cryptic which could be argued as a need to not be so obvious as directed by his source.  Or it could be that ALE was getting a little unnerved that someone was providing information to the bloggers that they did not want put out there.

Shango, on the other hand is a bit more difficult.  If Shango really knew something I will be totally pizzed off because he should have taken what he knew to someone who could actually do something about it.  If Shango, on the other hand, knew something and was afraid to be identified because of any reprecussions that may have, he would be more cryptic so as not to give himself up.  That may be a little out there, but then so are some of the theories that get passed around without substantial evidence to support them.  We are all doing that so what difference is it for Shango to do it in a riddle format?  One thing seems certain, Shango is weaving a picture of corruption, which is lin ine with a lot of what I see on LCD.

Does this answer the question?

Hi Truth.....just for the record...I have not asked before...and I asked it here since this is the S&S thread....thanks for your reply...I will not make this mistake again...

If a question has not been asked before then it is not a mistake to ask it the first time!  Sorry if you were offended.  I meant no harm.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on August 09, 2007, 10:35:29 AM
Not looking to Tango  :lol:

I just want to share a thought that came to me last night as I was reading all of the posts here.

The 'gamblers' knew the girl....and all the 'gambler's' references.....

The gamblers -- Joran, Paulus, Deepak, Guido, Andre Santos,his father, Elvis...

It's all right there. In your posts.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 09, 2007, 11:12:46 AM

What would you be discussing as of substance to this case? Please list this for me as I am obviously missing your point. Again, if you go with your premise then anything that is not verifiable as a definite fact does not fit your criteria. Then please refrain from discussing the Aru Bay videos, the witness statement of the gardener, some think it's unreliable also. Which PV of Joran's would you choose to discard?  The first lie or the subsequent ones that we know contain various lies and inconsistencies.  If you think one is a lie then all are a lie.  I happen to think there is a grain of truth in each of them. Oh yes, let's please refrain from any discussion of things we only think happened and concentrate on only what we know.  Maybe that is why this case hasn't been solved?  No one has bothered to nit pick the details to uncover the truth. 

In case you didn't notice this is the Shango/Simian thread.  That is why it's here to analyze these riddles and posts.  If you seek anything other than clarity of these two maybe you should try posting on the LCD.  They discuss more than just Shango over there. Beware though, we talk Simian and Shango there also. 

As you say, this is the Shango/Simian thread and my comments in this thread express believes about the contents and possible motives behind both these characters.

The first comment I made in this thread pertained to the desired evolvement of the proposed discussion, or “who are they and what did they know”.  I expressed thinking that Simian reported inside information with personal views and opinions added, and that Shango was a quack.

From the perspective of my assumptions about them, it doesn’t make sense to continue to discuss Lorenzo as a potential suspect.  Available information from the Simian, ALE, the press, other Aruba posters, pretty much indicate that the night Natalee disappeared he was the host of a party, that he was there “whole time” and that many can attest to that.  In addition, I assume that if by any minimal chance there was indication that Natalee was at the rave, Beth, Dave or another pro-Natalee meaningful source would have publicly made mention of it.

With respect to your comment “Oh yes, let's please refrain from any discussion of things we only think happened and concentrate on only what we know.”, I agree, it would be an absurdity.  In reality we don’t know anything.  We discuss things we think happened or could have happened, based on limited, doubtful, biased, or freely interpreted S & S posts.

My purpose is not to antagonize you, or Lala’s Mom or anyone else.  In theses discussions I think we will agree on some, disagree on others (or most).  If the intention is to hold an earnest exchange of views based on personal perspectives as opposed to views within the social contexts of the collectivity, the discussions will be good, and prosper, whether in agreement or disagreement.  But if not, it will most likely die or evolve into repetitive chitchat.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 09, 2007, 11:12:47 AM
Not looking to Tango  :lol:

I just want to share a thought that came to me last night as I was reading all of the posts here.

The 'gamblers' knew the girl....and all the 'gambler's' references.....

The gamblers -- Joran, Paulus, Deepak, Guido, Andre Santos,his father, Elvis...

It's all right there. In your posts.

Yes, I have seen that as well.  Members of that little group were all gambling with on another for two straight days.  05/29 - Joran, Paulus, Andre and his father.  05/30 Joran, Andre, Guido and Deepak.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 09, 2007, 11:21:26 AM

Let's not confuse the identity quest of the poster of that time. 

Bablu posted this to Shango, to which Shango did not reply:

Babalú on June 26th, 2005 9:47 pm
Shango
I read something about ganbanging a 14 yr. old tourist and filming it. But this was not attributed to the duo of Babylonians, but to another group of kids, including Van Rijn, Aredszetc.


Simian chose to respond in this manner:

Simian on June 26th, 2005 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew he girl.


Interesting when you read this because Simian chided Babalu about his attempt to name 'Babylonians', yet Simian only tried to leave a Shango clue in "The gamblers knew the girl".  Simian does not try to id the Babylonians.

Shango confirmed the statement of Babalu here:

Shango Says:June 27th, 2005 at 4:00 am
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting


and again:

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting



based on Bablu's post of:

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.



Shango confirms this again when responding to Drax:

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:01 pm
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.


who posted:

drax on June 27th, 2005 10:57 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze:…is DirtyHand Poppa VDS?


At know time did Shango provide an affirmative response to the question of Dirty Hand expect to Babalu.


From reading your selection of Shango comments and related responses,

First, we have that Babalu was a clueless, wild guesser.

Second, we have Shango prompting readers to think that Babalu, the clueless guesser, finally figured out what he was trying to convey.  Babalu “determined” one or more of the following:

-   Dirty Hand is head of some “official corps”.
-   Dirty Hand knows everything.
-   Dirty Hand has been in the house of Babylonians not seeking pleasure for himself.
-   Dirty Hand maybe went to search for Natalee at the house of Babylonians.
-   Dirty hand is the “Chief of Polis”.

Third, we have Shango confirming Drax that DirtyHand is poppa VDS.

For all practical purposes, from Shango’s responses we may have concluded that he meant that the house of Babylonians is a place where people in Aruba seek pleasure, but Dirty Hand didn’t, because he just went there looking for Natalee.  But the generality -including myself- chose to infer at that moment in time that “Dirty Hand is the Chief of Polis” and “Poppa VDS” is Poppa Van der Straten.  These two choices fitted the story better as most of us saw it back then.

Shango was mocking Simian and making fools out of us information avid posters.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on August 09, 2007, 11:24:01 AM
Not looking to Tango  :lol:

I just want to share a thought that came to me last night as I was reading all of the posts here.

The 'gamblers' knew the girl....and all the 'gambler's' references.....

The gamblers -- Joran, Paulus, Deepak, Guido, Andre Santos,his father, Elvis...

It's all right there. In your posts.

Yes, I have seen that as well.  Members of that little group were all gambling with on another for two straight days.  05/29 - Joran, Paulus, Andre and his father.  05/30 Joran, Andre, Guido and Deepak.

 :lol:

I was on this forum when Simian (and his entourage) and Shango were posting -- yet i still get a 'revelation' every now and then.

I do like to think about what they've said -- and try to fit it into what was going on at the time. What lies the skank, et al, were spreading at the time. Who was on the island. What searches were happening. Who was being questioned. etc.

I was looking through the pv's again yesterday (wanted to find where Santos said that Joran and Guido went back to the sloot house because Joran needed money) -- and i was reading here.....and it became clear to me WHO the gamblers were.

(after 2 years -- I feel a little 'not smart'. where's that embarrassed icon??)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 09, 2007, 12:05:06 PM

What would you be discussing as of substance to this case? Please list this for me as I am obviously missing your point. Again, if you go with your premise then anything that is not verifiable as a definite fact does not fit your criteria. Then please refrain from discussing the Aru Bay videos, the witness statement of the gardener, some think it's unreliable also. Which PV of Joran's would you choose to discard?  The first lie or the subsequent ones that we know contain various lies and inconsistencies.  If you think one is a lie then all are a lie.  I happen to think there is a grain of truth in each of them. Oh yes, let's please refrain from any discussion of things we only think happened and concentrate on only what we know.  Maybe that is why this case hasn't been solved?  No one has bothered to nit pick the details to uncover the truth. 

In case you didn't notice this is the Shango/Simian thread.  That is why it's here to analyze these riddles and posts.  If you seek anything other than clarity of these two maybe you should try posting on the LCD.  They discuss more than just Shango over there. Beware though, we talk Simian and Shango there also. 

As you say, this is the Shango/Simian thread and my comments in this thread express believes about the contents and possible motives behind both these characters.

The first comment I made in this thread pertained to the desired evolvement of the proposed discussion, or “who are they and what did they know”.  I expressed thinking that Simian reported inside information with personal views and opinions added, and that Shango was a quack.

From the perspective of my assumptions about them, it doesn’t make sense to continue to discuss Lorenzo as a potential suspect.  Available information from the Simian, ALE, the press, other Aruba posters, pretty much indicate that the night Natalee disappeared he was the host of a party, that he was there “whole time” and that many can attest to that.  In addition, I assume that if by any minimal chance there was indication that Natalee was at the rave, Beth, Dave or another pro-Natalee meaningful source would have publicly made mention of it.

With respect to your comment “Oh yes, let's please refrain from any discussion of things we only think happened and concentrate on only what we know.”, I agree, it would be an absurdity.  In reality we don’t know anything.  We discuss things we think happened or could have happened, based on limited, doubtful, biased, or freely interpreted S & S posts.

My purpose is not to antagonize you, or Lala’s Mom or anyone else.  In theses discussions I think we will agree on some, disagree on others (or most).  If the intention is to hold an earnest exchange of views based on personal perspectives as opposed to views within the social contexts of the collectivity, the discussions will be good, and prosper, whether in agreement or disagreement.  But if not, it will most likely die or evolve into repetitive chitchat.


"My purpose is not to antagonize you, or Lala’s Mom or anyone else."

Since you were responding to Lala's Mom should I assume you thought you were responding to someone else?  Either way, I would like to respond.

"From the perspective of my assumptions about them, it doesn’t make sense to continue to discuss Lorenzo as a potential suspect.  Available information from the Simian, ALE, the press, other Aruba posters, pretty much indicate that the night Natalee disappeared he was the host of a party, that he was there “whole time” and that many can attest to that."

I think the reason we keep discussing Lorenzo is because many believe he was the 5th suspect based the posts and on the daily events at that time.  Simian refers to the person believed to be Loreanzo here:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:50 pm
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying.
There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?
Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 6:01 pm
Simian
Possible alibis (or alibies) for #5:
Was in jail for DUI of illegal substances
Was filming himself
Was making a delivery
Was in Curaçao
Was painting his truck in Savaneta
None of the above



Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:04 pm
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was “the whole time”.


On June 23rd, 2006 we see this headline from CNN:

Judge arrested in Aruba case
Fifth suspect in custody after U.S. teen's disappearance

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/aruba.holloway/index.html



While he tells Lucy she is wrong to suspect Lorenzo, Simian returns to the idea that a party was held and they "were all at the party".  Simian nor Shango provided any insight to any other parties going on that were related to Natalee's disappearance.  So why post about a party again four days later?...When Paulus is being released from jail?


Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:24 pm
The boy is no Ajax. He is too afraid of the consequences. He doesn’t want to be made a cafone.
The third act needs to be played and the cowboys will be heroes.
This is all a “lugubrious game” to them. They were all at the party and all of them are turning their heads.
One of them needs to be pinched.



So...one 5th suspect is Lorenzo based on Simain's posts and the other 5th suspect is Paulus according the information we see on CNN.  If you believe Simian's 'informed' posts do you believe Lorenzo or Paulus to be the 5th suspect?  The "boyfriend from earlier in the week" does not seem to fit Paulus, but I guess we would need to understand Simian's context for such a word, and we don't have that information.

Your thoughts?........


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 09, 2007, 12:11:09 PM

What would you be discussing as of substance to this case? Please list this for me as I am obviously missing your point. Again, if you go with your premise then anything that is not verifiable as a definite fact does not fit your criteria. Then please refrain from discussing the Aru Bay videos, the witness statement of the gardener, some think it's unreliable also. Which PV of Joran's would you choose to discard?  The first lie or the subsequent ones that we know contain various lies and inconsistencies.  If you think one is a lie then all are a lie.  I happen to think there is a grain of truth in each of them. Oh yes, let's please refrain from any discussion of things we only think happened and concentrate on only what we know.  Maybe that is why this case hasn't been solved?  No one has bothered to nit pick the details to uncover the truth. 

In case you didn't notice this is the Shango/Simian thread.  That is why it's here to analyze these riddles and posts.  If you seek anything other than clarity of these two maybe you should try posting on the LCD.  They discuss more than just Shango over there. Beware though, we talk Simian and Shango there also. 

As you say, this is the Shango/Simian thread and my comments in this thread express believes about the contents and possible motives behind both these characters.

The first comment I made in this thread pertained to the desired evolvement of the proposed discussion, or “who are they and what did they know”.  I expressed thinking that Simian reported inside information with personal views and opinions added, and that Shango was a quack.

From the perspective of my assumptions about them, it doesn’t make sense to continue to discuss Lorenzo as a potential suspect.  Available information from the Simian, ALE, the press, other Aruba posters, pretty much indicate that the night Natalee disappeared he was the host of a party, that he was there “whole time” and that many can attest to that.  In addition, I assume that if by any minimal chance there was indication that Natalee was at the rave, Beth, Dave or another pro-Natalee meaningful source would have publicly made mention of it.

With respect to your comment “Oh yes, let's please refrain from any discussion of things we only think happened and concentrate on only what we know.”, I agree, it would be an absurdity.  In reality we don’t know anything.  We discuss things we think happened or could have happened, based on limited, doubtful, biased, or freely interpreted S & S posts.

My purpose is not to antagonize you, or Lala’s Mom or anyone else.  In theses discussions I think we will agree on some, disagree on others (or most).  If the intention is to hold an earnest exchange of views based on personal perspectives as opposed to views within the social contexts of the collectivity, the discussions will be good, and prosper, whether in agreement or disagreement.  But if not, it will most likely die or evolve into repetitive chitchat.


Why not continue to discuss Lorenzo as a suspect.  He clearly was such when they went to his house and searched.  I must be missing something here.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 09, 2007, 12:11:37 PM

Let's not confuse the identity quest of the poster of that time. 

Bablu posted this to Shango, to which Shango did not reply:

Babalú on June 26th, 2005 9:47 pm
Shango
I read something about ganbanging a 14 yr. old tourist and filming it. But this was not attributed to the duo of Babylonians, but to another group of kids, including Van Rijn, Aredszetc.


Simian chose to respond in this manner:

Simian on June 26th, 2005 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew he girl.


Interesting when you read this because Simian chided Babalu about his attempt to name 'Babylonians', yet Simian only tried to leave a Shango clue in "The gamblers knew the girl".  Simian does not try to id the Babylonians.

Shango confirmed the statement of Babalu here:

Shango Says:June 27th, 2005 at 4:00 am
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting


and again:

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting



based on Bablu's post of:

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.



Shango confirms this again when responding to Drax:

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:01 pm
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.


who posted:

drax on June 27th, 2005 10:57 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze:…is DirtyHand Poppa VDS?


At know time did Shango provide an affirmative response to the question of Dirty Hand expect to Babalu.


From reading your selection of Shango comments and related responses,

First, we have that Babalu was a clueless, wild guesser.

Second, we have Shango prompting readers to think that Babalu, the clueless guesser, finally figured out what he was trying to convey.  Babalu “determined” one or more of the following:

-   Dirty Hand is head of some “official corps”.
-   Dirty Hand knows everything.
-   Dirty Hand has been in the house of Babylonians not seeking pleasure for himself.
-   Dirty Hand maybe went to search for Natalee at the house of Babylonians.
-   Dirty hand is the “Chief of Polis”.

Third, we have Shango confirming Drax that DirtyHand is poppa VDS.

For all practical purposes, from Shango’s responses we may have concluded that he meant that the house of Babylonians is a place where people in Aruba seek pleasure, but Dirty Hand didn’t, because he just went there looking for Natalee.  But the generality -including myself- chose to infer at that moment in time that “Dirty Hand is the Chief of Polis” and “Poppa VDS” is Poppa Van der Straten.  These two choices fitted the story better as most of us saw it back then.

Shango was mocking Simian and making fools out of us information avid posters.


Sorry, I don't find all of what you have here as practical.  I would not seem at all practical to consider "Poppa VDS" is Poppa Van Der Straten, since his parental status had not been questioned anywhere at that time, and has been questioned very little since.

As far as the clueless Babalu...well, even a blind hog finds an acorn every now and then if he roots around long enough.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on August 09, 2007, 12:36:57 PM

(snipped)

For all practical purposes, from Shango’s responses we may have concluded that he meant that the house of Babylonians is a place where people in Aruba seek pleasure, but Dirty Hand didn’t, because he just went there looking for Natalee.   But the generality -including myself- chose to infer at that moment in time that “Dirty Hand is the Chief of Polis” and “Poppa VDS” is Poppa Van der Straten.  These two choices fitted the story better as most of us saw it back then.

Shango was mocking Simian and making fools out of us information avid posters.


Actually, that was never my interpretation of 'not seeking pleasure'.

I leaned more towards -- either he provided security to the places (rather than seeking pleasure) or, the one I really felt 'warmest to' was that he made the drug or money or 'female' drop offs and pick ups and payoffs (rather than seeking pleasure).

But I do agree that Shango was mocking Simian. And it appeared obvious to me, that Shango 'materialized' to confront Simian.

But it's all just my humble opinion.

I don't 'know' anything.

Other than Natalee Holloway was seen driving away from CnC with J2K and has NEVER BEEN SEEN OR HEARD FROM AGAIN BY ANONE IN HER FAMILY OR CIRCLE OF FRIENDS since that time :sad:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 09, 2007, 12:41:11 PM
Good Afternoon to all the shango/simian fans.

I have a couple questions. As most of you know I am not a shango/simian follower, but don't knock anyone who is.

If either knew anything,(and I am not saying they did or didn't know anything),  why the mumbo jumbo? why not just tell what they knew, collect the reward and help obtain justice.

And why did they disappear?

I am interested in reading what you think about these questions.  TIA

Sorry it has taken me so long to answer your question.  I am really not sure if either of these two characters knew anything or not.  The only thing I have to go by is occurrences that things said by Simian or Shango can be tied to things that we NOW know in the case.  Before we had the PV from witnesses and suspects I couldn't make any headway with any of it. Still I have made little headway.  It is similar to the frustration I feel trying to see Natalee in those Aru Bay videos.  I know exactly how everyone feels when I talk about Shango, because to this day I am not sure if I have actually seen anything or not. 

Concerning Shango...I won't say what I truly think...no one would believe me after all this time anyway, but let's just say that the only thing I have been able to truly understand about Shango is his/her knowledge of certain religious practices and characters in a comic book. Obviously Shango was a real person that Simian claims to have known.  They fought with each other. They wanted to one up the other one. 

Shango told of the corruption among the ALE and the Dutch as well as the stories of the parties and drugs.  We know now that is a reality.  I have read much of the early archives and see that not only did Shango know this, so do many others in Aruba.  It was a hush hush situation that most wanted to be kept secret. If Shango is on the up and up, then I would not want to be found out as the person that told of this big secret that Aruba had so cleverly kept for years.  Money laundering, drugs, prostitution, etc.

Simian, on the other hand, was all ALE.  Never once saying anything bad concerning the way the investigation was being handled.  Leaving hints as to their ability to have inside info just ahead of the news media.  Simian began with the intention of saying it wasn't because of corruption this investigation is out of hand, but because the family was obstructing things and wouldn't tell the truth.  It's there at the very beginning.  Then Simian began to see something wasn't right.  Things were not as they seem.  It could have been from other exchanges between the Arubans on the FP at the time or something else he/she saw or heard while being on the inside. I can't really say.  Simian had the closer inside track than Shango.  Simian eventually gets frustrated with all the accusations of cover up and corruption and turns back to the original premise that the answers lie in Mountain Brook and finally leaves a bit frustrated. 

Personally, I don't think either of them ever really left.  They just morphed into other names and in other places.  I read things all the time that I would most certainly think was written by Simian or Shango because of certain phrases or words they use.  The dialect does not change, everyone uses certain words and it becomes a habit that is not easily broken because it's part of your personality and manner of speech. For instance, Beth says "you know" at the beginning of many of her sentences.  She has been criticized for it as being Southern, but it's her way of speaking just as my saying "anyway".  It's a natural thing that is not easy to prevent unless you are consciously thinking about it.  Hope I haven't confused you even more. Thanks for asking the question.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 09, 2007, 12:44:27 PM

(snipped)

For all practical purposes, from Shango’s responses we may have concluded that he meant that the house of Babylonians is a place where people in Aruba seek pleasure, but Dirty Hand didn’t, because he just went there looking for Natalee.   But the generality -including myself- chose to infer at that moment in time that “Dirty Hand is the Chief of Polis” and “Poppa VDS” is Poppa Van der Straten.  These two choices fitted the story better as most of us saw it back then.

Shango was mocking Simian and making fools out of us information avid posters.


Actually, that was never my interpretation of 'not seeking pleasure'.

I leaned more towards -- either he provided security to the places (rather than seeking pleasure) or, the one I really felt 'warmest to' was that he made the drug or money or 'female' drop offs and pick ups and payoffs (rather than seeking pleasure).

But I do agree that Shango was mocking Simian. And it appeared obvious to me, that Shango 'materialized' to confront Simian.

But it's all just my humble opinion.

I don't 'know' anything.

Other than Natalee Holloway was seen driving away from CnC with J2K and has NEVER BEEN SEEN OR HEARD FROM AGAIN BY ANONE IN HER FAMILY OR CIRCLE OF FRIENDS since that time :sad:

Very good.  :wink:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 09, 2007, 02:01:11 PM
Since this is the Shango thread I am going to throw out some ideas that have been presented by other code talkers.  You may or may not agree, but I think they should be known that there are other ways of interpreting this stuff besides what I think. I thought of it after Sharon's post above.

Other code talkers think...

Dirty Hand is actually Mickey John.  They think he was working for the elders to provide that security that Sharon spoke of.  This is a touchy subject, but you know me, I think all ideas should be out there and then it is left to others to dispute one way or the other.  (Thus I have tolerated some insane comments about Shango and Simian to this day. Not yours Sharon, someone else.)  A poster named Eleye and Colombo seriously thought that Mickey John was involved. That he knew much more than he said and that is the reason that neither he nor the other guard has ever been able to collect any money for their false imprisonment. If you look at it that way, it does make sense. 

The 5th suspect is Paulus van der Sloot.  That Paulus was the "boyfriend" from earlier in the week.  Eleye clearly thought this and argued this point with me many times. He had very good reasons for saying that and although I tried without success, he stuck with his assumptions. As of this moment, I can't say for sure what the deal is.  It was a revolting thought to me...that Natalee would have been interested in that older man.  I truly do not see that in any way possible, but I am only speculating also. So to each his own.  If there is someone that can prove it...I will believe it.

Joran was not involved after leaving Natalee with the elders.  He should be absolved because he was just doing as he was told by others more powerful than he was.  That is why he states he will tell the truth one day. Maybe he was a scapegoat and left her with men more evil than he was, I can't truly say.  It would help to explain why Paulus has gone to such lengths to protect his son...he knows he was TOLD to do this and most likely Paulus was part of the TELLING. 

So take this for what it's worth, which if you dislike Shango is not much.  :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on August 09, 2007, 03:20:25 PM
lala's    :lol: :lol:

The idea of 'security' guard came from those you are referring to :lol:

I thought that was a possibility -- but I didn't think it was Mickey John.
 
IMO -- VanderStraaten or Odoobie or even the little leprechaun would fit that mold as well.  The chief of Police, or mayor or some official -- providing security for these types of private parties-- and getting 'paid' for it -- it probably one of the oldest forms of corruption on earth.

I think I even saw it on GunSmoke  :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 09, 2007, 03:33:16 PM

"My purpose is not to antagonize you, or Lala’s Mom or anyone else."

Since you were responding to Lala's Mom should I assume you thought you were responding to someone else?  Either way, I would like to respond.

I was replying to you, but apparently I erased the wrong quote marker.

Quote
I think the reason we keep discussing Lorenzo is because many believe he was the 5th suspect based the posts and on the daily events at that time.  Simian refers to the person believed to be Loreanzo here...

Quote
So...one 5th suspect is Lorenzo based on Simain's posts and the other 5th suspect is Paulus according the information we see on CNN.  If you believe Simian's 'informed' posts do you believe Lorenzo or Paulus to be the 5th suspect?  The "boyfriend from earlier in the week" does not seem to fit Paulus, but I guess we would need to understand Simian's context for such a word, and we don't have that information.

Your thoughts?........

I agree.  After initial suspects 1 & 2 were released and the counting restarted with Joran, it continued with Kalpoe, Kalpoe and Croes.  So according to the Simian on June 22nd PM, in the Front Pages of Scared Monkeys, the 5th suspect was Lorenzo van Rijn.

The 5th suspect is a relative designation, depending on where and when.  There is no need to force the 5th suspect issue as a unique universal proposal, as long as one is aware of two different instances and two different sets of circumstances.

CNN, Fox, other media outlets were not following our tempo at the Front Page, but they knew that Joran, Deepak, Satish and Seferino were behind bars, on suspicion of murder.  So when Paulus was arrested in the early afternoon of June 23rd, he became the 5th suspect, one day after the Simian declared Lorenzo van Rijn the 5th suspect on Scared Monkeys.

Quote
While he tells Lucy she is wrong to suspect Lorenzo, Simian returns to the idea that a party was held and they "were all at the party".  Simian nor Shango provided any insight to any other parties going on that were related to Natalee's disappearance.  So why post about a party again four days later?...When Paulus is being released from jail?

I'll try to guess… On the evening of June 25th, the Simian comments suggest that he anticipated a grand finale… ALE was masterfully and carefully planning the “legal checkmate”, given Paulus’ knowledge around “the palace”.  At that point in time, to him, Joran was guilty.  He also stated that the Hindus didn’t know what went on, implying that the Kalpoes were innocent.

On the afternoon of June 26th, one can perceive that the Simian’s enthusiasm is all gone, he projects himself as being somewhat defeatist as to ALE’s capacity to resolve the situation.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
The last hope rests on the shoulders of the cowboys. Ten days, two down, eight to go.
The elder knows the passages in the palace too well. The Babylonians are afraid they might not be able to stop him.
Don’t shake the wire, ‘cause the bird will fy away.


A few minutes down the road, his pessimism continues… he suggests that ALE has the hands tight and shifts responsibility to the courts.  He brings up the subject of the partygoers again.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Shock means well. He understands the Babylonians, but they don’t hold the hammer nor the block.
The alibi needs to be broken. The party-goers need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes. The house was dusted.

The question at this moment should be, whose alibi has to be broken?  He is talking about Paulus knowledge of the palace, so I am going to assume he was referring to Joran’s alibi, not Lorenzo’s.


After June 26th, the Simian began to lose control.  He began to react adversely to Shango’s mockery and there were too many things happening at the same time.  As he said, the island was “stiring”.  The Simian was probably stirring too. He abandoned his customary manner of presenting comments, adopted a somewhat Shangoan style and opened up his range of diffusion of information, in all possible directions, as if he were trying to cover all possibilities.  An all-the-possibilities strategy explains his bringing back the pinch-the-partygoers and need-to-break-the-alibi proposals, as well as his mistaken announcements of Natalee being found in Moko and the arrival of the package from The Hague.

I doubt the Simian posted the following comment, but if he did, then it was a third well intended statement based on false knowledge:

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:37 am
Her decapitated body to be found.
Her head to wash up on shore later.






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 09, 2007, 03:41:39 PM
Sorry, I don't find all of what you have here as practical.  I would not seem at all practical to consider "Poppa VDS" is Poppa Van Der Straten,

Then there was no confirmation that DirtyHand was Van der Straten.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on August 09, 2007, 03:48:08 PM
STom

iirc, klaas has indicated that the 'decapitated head' (and the washing to shore) Simian posts were NOT legit.

That's funny. Legitimacy and Simian in the same post :lol: :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 09, 2007, 03:58:53 PM
lala's    :lol: :lol:

The idea of 'security' guard came from those you are referring to :lol:

I thought that was a possibility -- but I didn't think it was Mickey John.
 
IMO -- VanderStraaten or Odoobie or even the little leprechaun would fit that mold as well.  The chief of Police, or mayor or some official -- providing security for these types of private parties-- and getting 'paid' for it -- it probably one of the oldest forms of corruption on earth.

I think I even saw it on GunSmoke  :lol:

 :roll: :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 09, 2007, 04:13:24 PM
But it's all just my humble opinion.

I don't 'know' anything.

You know more than most.  Congratulations!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 09, 2007, 04:17:52 PM
The 5th suspect is Paulus van der Sloot.  That Paulus was the "boyfriend" from earlier in the week.  Eleye clearly thought this and argued this point with me many times. He had very good reasons for saying that and although I tried without success, he stuck with his assumptions. As of this moment, I can't say for sure what the deal is.  It was a revolting thought to me...that Natalee would have been interested in that older man.  I truly do not see that in any way possible, but I am only speculating also. So to each his own.  If there is someone that can prove it...I will believe it.

Lala'sMom,

Paulus was in Holland.  He arrived Sunday afternoon, before going to the Casino with Joran.  He couldn't have been the boyfriend from earlier in the week, if there was ever any.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on August 09, 2007, 04:17:53 PM
lala's    :lol: :lol:

The idea of 'security' guard came from those you are referring to :lol:

I thought that was a possibility -- but I didn't think it was Mickey John.
 
IMO -- VanderStraaten or Odoobie or even the little leprechaun would fit that mold as well.  The chief of Police, or mayor or some official -- providing security for these types of private parties-- and getting 'paid' for it -- it probably one of the oldest forms of corruption on earth.

I think I even saw it on GunSmoke  :lol:

 :roll: :roll:

You're too young to have watched GunSmoke?
 
Or you don't agree with me?

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 09, 2007, 04:56:44 PM
Sorry, I don't find all of what you have here as practical.  I would not seem at all practical to consider "Poppa VDS" is Poppa Van Der Straten,

Then there was no confirmation that DirtyHand was Van der Straten.

I still believe that Shango confirmed that Dirty Hand was the Chief of Polis.  Was that not Van Der Straten's title?  Or did that title belong to someone else...Dompig, Bernardin (sp?)?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 09, 2007, 05:21:03 PM

On the afternoon of June 26th, one can perceive that the Simian’s enthusiasm is all gone, he projects himself as being somewhat defeatist as to ALE’s capacity to resolve the situation.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
The last hope rests on the shoulders of the cowboys. Ten days, two down, eight to go.
The elder knows the passages in the palace too well. The Babylonians are afraid they might not be able to stop him.
Don’t shake the wire, ‘cause the bird will fy away.


A few minutes down the road, his pessimism continues… he suggests that ALE has the hands tight and shifts responsibility to the courts.  He brings up the subject of the partygoers again.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Shock means well. He understands the Babylonians, but they don’t hold the hammer nor the block.
The alibi needs to be broken. The party-goers need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes. The house was dusted.

The question at this moment should be, whose alibi has to be broken?  He is talking about Paulus knowledge of the palace, so I am going to assume he was referring to Joran’s alibi, not Lorenzo’s.


After June 26th, the Simian began to lose control.  He began to react adversely to Shango’s mockery and there were too many things happening at the same time.  As he said, the island was “stiring”.  The Simian was probably stirring too. He abandoned his customary manner of presenting comments, adopted a somewhat Shangoan style and opened up his range of diffusion of information, in all possible directions, as if he were trying to cover all possibilities.  An all-the-possibilities strategy explains his bringing back the pinch-the-partygoers and need-to-break-the-alibi proposals, as well as his mistaken announcements of Natalee being found in Moko and the arrival of the package from The Hague.

I doubt the Simian posted the following comment, but if he did, then it was a third well intended statement based on false knowledge:

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:37 am
Her decapitated body to be found.
Her head to wash up on shore later.







I see the path you are taking and would also entertain taking it a little further in the direction of the preceeding post by Simian which appears to be his first of the day:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.



His very next post is about the TES search (imo) and Paulus and possilby a warning to Shango who just made his first post questioning Simian:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
The last hope rests on the shoulders of the cowboys. Ten days, two down, eight to go.
The elder knows the passages in the palace too well. The Babylonians are afraid they might
not be able to stop him.
Don’t shake the wire, ‘cause the bird will fy away.



He then goes directly to:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Shock means well. He understands the Babylonians, but they don’t hold the hammer nor the block.
The alibi needs to be broken. The party-go-ers need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes.
The house was dusted.



Which is in repsonse to a post carried over from ShockTheMonkey"

chimes on June 26th, 2005 1:24 pm
From 1188’s thread… ShocktheMonkey Says:

June 25th, 2005 at 9:08 pm
To my faithful believers:

This may be my last post. But I’ll tell you what’s going on. The younger VDS did it. No admission of guilt yet, but witnesses to prove. Awaiting DNA results to confirm will be soon. Two more possible arrests. DJ was the “Vesselâ€Â. Sorry for cryptic message, but my job is on the line. Still I remain true to you bloggers and the truth shall set us free. A mystery is only as mysterious as the mind allows it to be. Sometimes the truth is right in front of your face …


As you read these in the order in which they are posted, therefore it does not appear that he is speaking about the same person in any of the three consecutive posts.  There is nothing sequential about these consecutive posts, therefore, I still contend that references being made regarding a party or the party-goers is a reference to the 5th suspect because that is the only person connected to a party of any kind...

Does this make any sense?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on August 09, 2007, 05:22:05 PM
The 5th suspect is Paulus van der Sloot.  That Paulus was the "boyfriend" from earlier in the week.  Eleye clearly thought this and argued this point with me many times. He had very good reasons for saying that and although I tried without success, he stuck with his assumptions. As of this moment, I can't say for sure what the deal is.  It was a revolting thought to me...that Natalee would have been interested in that older man.  I truly do not see that in any way possible, but I am only speculating also. So to each his own.  If there is someone that can prove it...I will believe it.

Lala'sMom,

Paulus was in Holland.  He arrived Sunday afternoon, before going to the Casino with Joran.  He couldn't have been the boyfriend from earlier in the week, if there was ever any.

Excellent point. I still say Lorenzo is the 5th.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 09, 2007, 05:56:01 PM
The 5th suspect is Paulus van der Sloot.  That Paulus was the "boyfriend" from earlier in the week.  Eleye clearly thought this and argued this point with me many times. He had very good reasons for saying that and although I tried without success, he stuck with his assumptions. As of this moment, I can't say for sure what the deal is.  It was a revolting thought to me...that Natalee would have been interested in that older man.  I truly do not see that in any way possible, but I am only speculating also. So to each his own.  If there is someone that can prove it...I will believe it.

Lala'sMom,

Paulus was in Holland.  He arrived Sunday afternoon, before going to the Casino with Joran.  He couldn't have been the boyfriend from earlier in the week, if there was ever any.

That's what I have been saying all this time.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 10, 2007, 02:32:27 PM

Excellent point. I still say Lorenzo is the 5th.

Natalee Holloway Case

Witness - one brought in for questioning.
Suspect - one who is detained.


JORAN, DEEPAK, SATISH, PAULUS AND STEVE

FOX NEWS
June 24, 2005


Joran van der Sloot (search) and his friends Deepak and Satish Kalpoe are being held under suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder.

A fourth man, party boat DJ Steve Croes, is being held under the same conditions.

The fifth man, Paul van der Sloot (search) — the father of 17-year-old Joran — was being held on suspicion of complicity to pre-meditated murder, complicity to kidnapping and murder and kidnapping. Under the Aruban system, complicity is a lesser charge.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 10, 2007, 02:34:54 PM
However ... if the Security Guards enter the equation ... the fifth suspect would be either Joran, Deepak or Satish.

Janet


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 10, 2007, 04:06:23 PM
Sorry, I don't find all of what you have here as practical.  I would not seem at all practical to consider "Poppa VDS" is Poppa Van Der Straten,

Then there was no confirmation that DirtyHand was Van der Straten.

I still believe that Shango confirmed that Dirty Hand was the Chief of Polis.  Was that not Van Der Straten's title?  Or did that title belong to someone else...Dompig, Bernardin (sp?)?

Based on what Truthseeker2?  If Poppa VDS is not Poppa Van der Straten, then "Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting " is not a corroboration of Dirty Hand being Van der Straten.

As I said in the comment you qualified as unpractical, Babalu said several things in addition to “so maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the Chief of Polis”.

Babalu was guessing the motive Dirty Hand had for having been to the house of Babylon and guessing that he could be someone in an official position.  But Babalu had already been declared clueless for suggesting that the Babylonians were the Kalpoes (his bit about the duo of Babylonians not participating in the gangbanging of a 14 year old).  Babalu didn’t know what he was talking about and both his comments and the replies they elicited should not be basis for conclusions; they are supported by wrong information.
****************************

The established ranks in the KVA are, from head to toe:

Hoofdcommissaris van Politie
Commissaris
Hoofdinspecteur
Inspecteur 1ste Klasse
Hoofdagent
Brigadier
Agent 1ste Klasse
Agent in Opleiding

The following are the reported ranks of known upper officers:

Jan van der Straten, Police Superintendent
Gerold Dompig, Deputy Police Chief
Ronny Bernadina, Police Commissioner and High Commissioner
Adolfo Richardson, Chief of Police
Peter de Witte, Chief Commissioner

Perhaps Chief Commissioner and High Commissioner are different free translated versions of Hoofdcommissaris.  I don’t know if Police Superintendent also refers to Hoofdcommissaris.

When Adolfo Richardson became the new investigator he was Chief of Police, without the Deputy part, which Gerold Dompig had.  I am unaware if they had different ranks or if we just get the wrong designation or name of ranks through information reports.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 10, 2007, 04:10:11 PM
As you read these in the order in which they are posted, therefore it does not appear that he is speaking about the same person in any of the three consecutive posts.  There is nothing sequential about these consecutive posts, therefore, I still contend that references being made regarding a party or the party-goers is a reference to the 5th suspect because that is the only person connected to a party of any kind...

Does this make any sense?

Yes, what you say makes sense.  What doesn’t make sense is his decision to bring the subject up again, when he already concluded that there was an unquestionable alibi. I honestly believe in imperfect not 20/not 20 hindsight, that in the latter part of his comments, the Simian was submitted to self-pressure to deliver a successful informant performance.  One way of guaranteeing that was keeping available options open.

He made a common mistake; thinking that he knew more than he really did. That led him to derive inferences from not so worthy, ephemeral information.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 10, 2007, 04:21:32 PM

Excellent point. I still say Lorenzo is the 5th.

Natalee Holloway Case

Witness - one brought in for questioning.
Suspect - one who is detained.


JORAN, DEEPAK, SATISH, PAULUS AND STEVE

FOX NEWS
June 24, 2005


Joran van der Sloot (search) and his friends Deepak and Satish Kalpoe are being held under suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder.

A fourth man, party boat DJ Steve Croes, is being held under the same conditions.

The fifth man, Paul van der Sloot (search) — the father of 17-year-old Joran — was being held on suspicion of complicity to pre-meditated murder, complicity to kidnapping and murder and kidnapping. Under the Aruban system, complicity is a lesser charge.

Definitions don't matter. Paulus couldn’t be the 5th suspect the Simian referred to.  His specific 5th suspect allegedly had a relationship with Natalee earlier on and unless we are willing to give Paulus the distinctive trait of ubiquity by the power of Shango, then he isn’t Simian’s 5th.  It’s counterintuitive to think otherwise.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 10, 2007, 04:41:38 PM
Sorry, I don't find all of what you have here as practical.  I would not seem at all practical to consider "Poppa VDS" is Poppa Van Der Straten,

Then there was no confirmation that DirtyHand was Van der Straten.

I still believe that Shango confirmed that Dirty Hand was the Chief of Polis.  Was that not Van Der Straten's title?  Or did that title belong to someone else...Dompig, Bernardin (sp?)?

Based on what Truthseeker2?  If Poppa VDS is not Poppa Van der Straten, then "Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting " is not a corroboration of Dirty Hand being Van der Straten.

As I said in the comment you qualified as unpractical, Babalu said several things in addition to “so maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the Chief of Polis”.

Babalu was guessing the motive Dirty Hand had for having been to the house of Babylon and guessing that he could be someone in an official position.  But Babalu had already been declared clueless for suggesting that the Babylonians were the Kalpoes (his bit about the duo of Babylonians not participating in the gangbanging of a 14 year old).  Babalu didn’t know what he was talking about and both his comments and the replies they elicited should not be basis for conclusions; they are supported by wrong information.
****************************

The established ranks in the KVA are, from head to toe:

Hoofdcommissaris van Politie
Commissaris
Hoofdinspecteur
Inspecteur 1ste Klasse
Hoofdagent
Brigadier
Agent 1ste Klasse
Agent in Opleiding

The following are the reported ranks of known upper officers:

Jan van der Straten, Police Superintendent
Gerold Dompig, Deputy Police Chief
Ronny Bernadina, Police Commissioner and High Commissioner
Adolfo Richardson, Chief of Police
Peter de Witte, Chief Commissioner

Perhaps Chief Commissioner and High Commissioner are different free translated versions of Hoofdcommissaris.  I don’t know if Police Superintendent also refers to Hoofdcommissaris.

When Adolfo Richardson became the new investigator he was Chief of Police, without the Deputy part, which Gerold Dompig had.  I am unaware if they had different ranks or if we just get the wrong designation or name of ranks through information reports.


The validation of the 'open window' is seen in the response "Drax Scores!".


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 10, 2007, 04:44:53 PM
Sorry, I don't find all of what you have here as practical.  I would not seem at all practical to consider "Poppa VDS" is Poppa Van Der Straten,

Then there was no confirmation that DirtyHand was Van der Straten.

I still believe that Shango confirmed that Dirty Hand was the Chief of Polis.  Was that not Van Der Straten's title?  Or did that title belong to someone else...Dompig, Bernardin (sp?)?

Based on what Truthseeker2?  If Poppa VDS is not Poppa Van der Straten, then "Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting " is not a corroboration of Dirty Hand being Van der Straten.

As I said in the comment you qualified as unpractical, Babalu said several things in addition to “so maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the Chief of Polis”.

Babalu was guessing the motive Dirty Hand had for having been to the house of Babylon and guessing that he could be someone in an official position.  But Babalu had already been declared clueless for suggesting that the Babylonians were the Kalpoes (his bit about the duo of Babylonians not participating in the gangbanging of a 14 year old).  Babalu didn’t know what he was talking about and both his comments and the replies they elicited should not be basis for conclusions; they are supported by wrong information.
****************************

The established ranks in the KVA are, from head to toe:

Hoofdcommissaris van Politie
Commissaris
Hoofdinspecteur
Inspecteur 1ste Klasse
Hoofdagent
Brigadier
Agent 1ste Klasse
Agent in Opleiding

The following are the reported ranks of known upper officers:

Jan van der Straten, Police Superintendent
Gerold Dompig, Deputy Police Chief
Ronny Bernadina, Police Commissioner and High Commissioner
Adolfo Richardson, Chief of Police
Peter de Witte, Chief Commissioner

Perhaps Chief Commissioner and High Commissioner are different free translated versions of Hoofdcommissaris.  I don’t know if Police Superintendent also refers to Hoofdcommissaris.

When Adolfo Richardson became the new investigator he was Chief of Police, without the Deputy part, which Gerold Dompig had.  I am unaware if they had different ranks or if we just get the wrong designation or name of ranks through information reports.


Validation can also be found in this exchange:

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am
Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29.   He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens the door to the lions den


watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:29 am
I think Subdude is on the right track about the media putting pressure on WHY the polis chief is leaving.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 10, 2007, 04:48:23 PM
As you read these in the order in which they are posted, therefore it does not appear that he is speaking about the same person in any of the three consecutive posts.  There is nothing sequential about these consecutive posts, therefore, I still contend that references being made regarding a party or the party-goers is a reference to the 5th suspect because that is the only person connected to a party of any kind...

Does this make any sense?

Yes, what you say makes sense.  What doesn’t make sense is his decision to bring the subject up again, when he already concluded that there was an unquestionable alibi. I honestly believe in imperfect not 20/not 20 hindsight, that in the latter part of his comments, the Simian was submitted to self-pressure to deliver a successful informant performance.  One way of guaranteeing that was keeping available options open.

He made a common mistake; thinking that he knew more than he really did. That led him to derive inferences from not so worthy, ephemeral information.


Well, what you have done here is not any different that anyone else...you've made assumptions as well.  You see through your prescription glasses and others see through theirs.

For me, placing the quotes in the correct order and applying the context of the other posters encourages me to believe that Shango's Dirty Hand is Jan Van Der Straten.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on August 10, 2007, 05:09:42 PM

Well, what you have done here is not any different that anyone else...you've made assumptions as well.  You see through your prescription glasses and others see through theirs.

For me, placing the quotes in the correct order and applying the context of the other posters encourages me to believe that Shango's Dirty Hand is Jan Van Der Straten.

I also feel that you need to read the posts in context of the other posts and posters.

And I would agree TS2, that Shango does encourage us to believe that 'Dirty Hand' is VanderStraaten.

But he also says there are many dirty hands. And he also spells it differently in different places -- sometimes one word. sometimes in capital letters. sometimes in small letters. So I am also of the belief there is more than one dirty hand. imo, one of his references insinuates the drug runners or money launderers as the dirty hands, as well. And I think one of the of S's even mentions a 'dirty foot' :P

But...this is my real question --

WHY do you think Shango encourage us to believe that Dirty Hand is VanDerStraaten??



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 10, 2007, 07:51:52 PM
Since this is the Shango thread I am going to throw out some ideas that have been presented by other code talkers. You may or may not agree, but I think they should be known that there are other ways of interpreting this stuff besides what I think. I thought of it after Sharon's post above.

Other code talkers think...

Dirty Hand is actually Mickey John.  They think he was working for the elders to provide that security that Sharon spoke of.  This is a touchy subject, but you know me, I think all ideas should be out there and then it is left to others to dispute one way or the other.  (Thus I have tolerated some insane comments about Shango and Simian to this day. Not yours Sharon, someone else.)  A poster named Eleye and Colombo seriously thought that Mickey John was involved. That he knew much more than he said and that is the reason that neither he nor the other guard has ever been able to collect any money for their false imprisonment. If you look at it that way, it does make sense. 

The 5th suspect is Paulus van der Sloot.  That Paulus was the "boyfriend" from earlier in the week.  Eleye clearly thought this and argued this point with me many times. He had very good reasons for saying that and although I tried without success, he stuck with his assumptions. As of this moment, I can't say for sure what the deal is.  It was a revolting thought to me...that Natalee would have been interested in that older man.  I truly do not see that in any way possible, but I am only speculating also. So to each his own.  If there is someone that can prove it...I will believe it.

Joran was not involved after leaving Natalee with the elders.  He should be absolved because he was just doing as he was told by others more powerful than he was.  That is why he states he will tell the truth one day. Maybe he was a scapegoat and left her with men more evil than he was, I can't truly say.  It would help to explain why Paulus has gone to such lengths to protect his son...he knows he was TOLD to do this and most likely Paulus was part of the TELLING. 

So take this for what it's worth, which if you dislike Shango is not much.  :lol:

Please note that these are not my assumptions...I am merely passing on some other ideas as well.  I worry when people take my posts out of context, just as many people take Siman and Shango out of context.  Changes the meaning completely.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 10, 2007, 07:58:44 PM

Excellent point. I still say Lorenzo is the 5th.

Natalee Holloway Case

Witness - one brought in for questioning.
Suspect - one who is detained.


JORAN, DEEPAK, SATISH, PAULUS AND STEVE

FOX NEWS
June 24, 2005


Joran van der Sloot (search) and his friends Deepak and Satish Kalpoe are being held under suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder.

A fourth man, party boat DJ Steve Croes, is being held under the same conditions.

The fifth man, Paul van der Sloot (search) — the father of 17-year-old Joran — was being held on suspicion of complicity to pre-meditated murder, complicity to kidnapping and murder and kidnapping. Under the Aruban system, complicity is a lesser charge.

The early Aruban posters were talking about a 4th and 5th person long before June 24.  In fact the first mention of a 5th person happened around June 16th maybe even earlier.  I forget.  Lorenzo and Steve Croes are clearly those two people (4th and 5th) it's in the FP posts from that time (June 16-17) as well the Archives of that same time.  The Aruban posters were talking about Lorenzo before they were talking about Croes, so it's which one you think is 4 and which is 5. It's the distinction between suspect and witness that is causing the confusion.  I do not make this stuff up as I go... :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 10, 2007, 09:00:49 PM

Well, what you have done here is not any different that anyone else...you've made assumptions as well.  You see through your prescription glasses and others see through theirs.

For me, placing the quotes in the correct order and applying the context of the other posters encourages me to believe that Shango's Dirty Hand is Jan Van Der Straten.

I also feel that you need to read the posts in context of the other posts and posters.

And I would agree TS2, that Shango does encourage us to believe that 'Dirty Hand' is VanderStraaten.

But he also says there are many dirty hands. And he also spells it differently in different places -- sometimes one word. sometimes in capital letters. sometimes in small letters. So I am also of the belief there is more than one dirty hand. imo, one of his references insinuates the drug runners or money launderers as the dirty hands, as well. And I think one of the of S's even mentions a 'dirty foot' :P

But...this is my real question --

WHY do you think Shango encourage us to believe that Dirty Hand is VanDerStraaten??





Well, that's an excellent question.  Shango posted at least three times that Babalu had "opened a windoe" and twice confirmed that Babalu had correctly identified Dirty Hand when others were trying to guess that identity.  When you think about it in the context of Shango, THE Dirty Hand knows everyone, per se.  If Van Der Straten is THE Dirty Hand you could easily come to the conclusion that in his position he could do the following:

1. Provide protection from arrest for any criminal element on the island.
2. Destroy evidence
3. Mislead the prosecutor
4. Mislead families of a victim
5. Provide advance notice to a suspect regarding the reason for them being suspects
6. Direct the interrogators

As far as many dirty hands, yes Shango did refer to that here:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
There are many DirtyHands among the Arawak, and so it has been for centuries…


I believe this means there are and have been many people like Van Der Staaten that allow things to happen on the island.  It’s always been that way.  Specific to this I case I believe Shango has identified Van Der Straten at the Dirty Hand.

As far as using the term Dirty Hand versus dirty hand, you can find this same scenario with many words within the Shango posts.

For example:

Babylonian, babylonian
Maze, maze
Music, music
His Lordship, his lordship
Arawaks, arawaks

...and so on.  I don't apply any significant change in definition as a result unless the topic of that post has changed.  With respect to Dirty Hand, I do not see such a change from post to post.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 10, 2007, 09:33:08 PM
I think I should also point out that some of our posters think Dirty Hand is someone else.  Remember this is what others have said...not my thoughts...I think we need to know what is out there and go from there.

Tylergal thinks Dirty Hand could be Rudy Croes.
I have read others think Dirty Hand could be Dennis Jacobs.

So there are various opinions.  Shango did indeed allow van der Straaten to be characterized as Dirty Hand.  I have my own thoughts as to why.  Let me work on it and I will elaborate.  I need to compose my thoughts.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 10, 2007, 10:30:59 PM


Why does Shango want us to believe that Dirty Hand is van der Straaten?   I suppose it would be prudent to discuss the identity of Shango here...but that will only derail things so let's just consider this...



1.  If you think Shango is solely based on the comic book character then I guess Dirty Hand is referenced in the comics.  I don't know, since I have never seen the comics.  That would be nice to know if Dirty Hand is an official of some sort in the comic.  That is best left to those that have read the comics.

2. It is possible that Shango was a member of the MEP and he did not agree with the opposition.  I do not know what party van der Straaten belonged to or was aligned with.  If Straaten is a trusted person as Jossy claims, then I would think he was not a supporter of the MEP.  Would he say so?  Probably not. You don't want to go around biting the hand that feeds you.

3.  Another possibility is that Shango disliked the MEP but had no power to do anything about it.  Maybe he or someone he knew was mistreated by the MEP, the elders, the lions or whatever.  It could have been his way of getting back at them. To point your finger and say that Dirty Hand was a friend of Paulus and he walked with him and walked among the ravers and gamblers and did nothing says you have a grudge about something.   

4. Shango was DEA.

Shango and only Shango actually knows who is Dirty Hand.  We are all making assumptions from things we know or have learned along the way.  I do know that if Dirty Hand was really Gabe Leo, I have seen him supporting MEP shortly after the election.  I am not the only person that knows this, trust me.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 10, 2007, 10:31:21 PM
Is Van Der Straten Dirty Hand???


Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.


Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 4:00 am
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:26 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
Simian your Doppleganger is with us

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post
DirtyHand is alive

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

drax on June 27th, 2005 10:57 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze:…is DirtyHand Poppa VDS?

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:01 pm
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post

drax on June 27th, 2005 11:08 pm
Shango says: The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.
I don’t understand, Shango.

Babalú on June 27th, 2005 11:10 pm
He’s talking about Dirty Hands identity, please refer to my post of yesterday 12:30 AM. He is JVDS, and not Joran.

Lucy on June 27th, 2005 10:56 pm
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:13 pm
Lucy spoke at 10:56


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tamikosmom on August 11, 2007, 12:59:47 AM
In the Natalee Holloway case ... other than the security guards ... there were only seven suspects who were arrested ... held in pre-trial detention. All the rest were considered witnesses who were brought in for questioning and immediately relesed ... Lorenzo included.

Janet


Joran, Deepak, Satish, Steve Croes and Paulus
FOX NEWS
June 24, 2005


Joran van der Sloot (search) and his friends Deepak and Satish Kalpoe are being held under suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder.

A fourth man, party boat DJ Steve Croes, is being held under the same conditions.

The fifth man, Paul van der Sloot (search) — the father of 17-year-old Joran — was being held on suspicion of complicity to pre-meditated murder, complicity to kidnapping and murder and kidnapping. Under the Aruban system, complicity is a lesser charge.


Geoffrey van Cromvoirt (GVC)
ABC NEWS
April 24, 2006


Geoffrey van Cromvoirt, 19, has been released into the custody of his parents after spending more than a week in an Aruba jail on suspicion of "criminal offenses that may be related to the disappearance" of Natalee Holloway.


Guildo Wever
FOX NEWS
May 22, 2006


Guido Wever, an Aruba national, is expected to face charges Tuesday in a Dutch courtroom connection with the disappearance of the high school senior. Wever's lawyer, Gerard Spong was expected to file a suit Monday to prevent his extradition to the Caribbean island on charges of "assisting in the murder, heavy battery and kidnapping" of the teen

++++++++++++++++++

Arlene Ellis-Schipper
NANCY GRACE
July 20, 2005


ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, ARUBAN ATTORNEY: There is no grand jury in Aruba. It`s a different system. You are arrested based on suspicion, on strong suspicion. After a maximum of 146 days, the prosecution must determine the criminal offense that has been committed and make an official summation for court. And God forbid that they cannot determine what criminal offense has been committed, the case remains open, and it can remain open for a whole number of years, actually, until the due process, the international rules about due process, up to two years


Noraina Pietersz - Defence Attorney
Associated Press
June 9, 2005


Under Aruban law, only serious suspicion from investigators — not solid evidence — is needed for a judge to rule that suspects can be held, Pietersz said.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 11, 2007, 01:21:39 AM
Simian never says arrested...just suspect.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 11, 2007, 10:53:19 AM
Right, Lala's.  When Simian talks about the 5th suspect he is talking about someone who is the 5th suspect in the eyes of his ALE contact, not in the eyes of the Media.  No where does Simian say the 5th official suspect.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tylergal on August 12, 2007, 07:45:16 AM
Where does Max Arends fit in?  If you go by the actual order, LOrenzo is the fourth, Max Arends #5 and Steve Croes #6, but we are not privy to the "true order."  Lorenzo was questioned according to Fox on the 16th and shortly after on the same date, Max Arends.  On the 17th, comes Steve Croes.  He came in to give Lorenzo the alibi.  Dirty Hand has walked ... but has not partaken...I do not really think Shango implies JVDStrateen is dirty hand.  I might be wrong and reading it wrong and I know how you come to that conclusion but I can go elsewhere with the same statement. :2doh:  Not wanting to start world war III, just thinking. . . .

Does anyone other than I remember the girl from Atlanta who was on TV immediately after the arrest of AJ & MJ, who stated one of the SGs had accosted her or made indecent proposition to her.  A blond, about Natalee's size, perhaps a little older.  Just wondering. 

I still think whatever took place, happened near the HI.  I just do not think Natalee was at the VDS house in an awake and live state.  I know that the consensus here is that she died there --- I think not.  I think it was somewhere near where Steve Croes, who was somewhere near the HI and I think he is involved.  His witness statement if we are to believe the poseurs in Aruba was that Steve came in voluntarily and was only arrested after he lied (or did he) about where Natalee was taken.  So we can eliminate Steve Croes as a "suspect" at that point, and only put him in the same category with all the former witnesses, "sleeze bag."


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tylergal on August 12, 2007, 07:53:43 AM
Just another thought.  We have had an artist's rendering of Jerry Strawberry as potential "masher."  Does Steve Croes use him for "dirty work?"  Is he one of the dirty hands?  I can see how he could be easily manipulated.  Is Steve :silent: Croes the guy who rode on the bus with his "brother" (Jerry Strawberry) for a year   :wink:  Remember that book/movie. 

The bifrons.  How many bifrons?  Would Jerry Strawberry be easily manipulated into thinking he was doing a good deed?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: eleye on August 12, 2007, 02:13:27 PM
hi monkeys!!!!!!! long time no see!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tylergal on August 12, 2007, 02:26:53 PM
Eleye, come to the Monkey Musing thread and let us know when you are going to be here.  We will tango Shango!  We only come here when we have a willing partner and everyone as of today hangs out in the Monkey Musings forum, so come in and announce that you are interested in Shango, and I bet you will have some willing accomplices, er, I mean partners.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: yapperz1 on August 12, 2007, 02:27:14 PM
Hiya Eleye. Welcome Back!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: eleye on August 12, 2007, 02:27:52 PM
ok...thx tyler...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on August 12, 2007, 02:27:54 PM
hi monkeys!!!!!!! long time no see!!!

Eleye - good to see you.  I see you found the S&S thread.  We made some changes overnight.  Only NH discussion in the NH forum.  The old LCD thread is now called the Monkey Musings thread and is in the Current Events forum. 

S&S should be posted here.  NH discussion in the Natalee Case Discussion thread here in this forum.

P.S. I fixed your avatar for you  :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: eleye on August 12, 2007, 02:29:01 PM
hey yappz...hi klass...ok..thx


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 12, 2007, 04:49:14 PM
Now that Eyele is back I think I am going to retire.  I carried the torch of Shango for a long, long time.  I will sit back and watch.

Tylergal--I just read that story abut the SG and the girl.  I will try to find it, but I can't remember where in cyberspace I was.  She did identify one of those SG as being the one that offered her drugs or something to that effect. IMO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sandy leiva on August 12, 2007, 07:33:30 PM
Eleye, come to the Monkey Musing thread and let us know when you are going to be here.  We will tango Shango!  We only come here when we have a willing partner and everyone as of today hangs out in the Monkey Musings forum, so come in and announce that you are interested in Shango, and I bet you will have some willing accomplices, er, I mean partners.

I just read where shango claims that Natalies head will rollout of the ocean. Jorans lil bro valentjin said the same thing early on in the case that her head would roll out of the water and that makes me think papa vds could be van der staten as dirtyhand b/cause vderstraten bieing sloots best friend could have gotton that info from valentjin, if he was questioned by vdstraten.  Then it leads me to believe as i have all along that the head in the bag we have pictures of that resembles natalee is it, and that they have recovered body or parts there of.  There were huge discussions on this before in 05 and thruout06.  Anyone remember? any ideas?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 12, 2007, 08:02:29 PM
Where does Max Arends fit in?  If you go by the actual order, LOrenzo is the fourth, Max Arends #5 and Steve Croes #6, but we are not privy to the "true order."  Lorenzo was questioned according to Fox on the 16th and shortly after on the same date, Max Arends.  On the 17th, comes Steve Croes.  He came in to give Lorenzo the alibi.  Dirty Hand has walked ... but has not partaken...I do not really think Shango implies JVDStrateen is dirty hand.  I might be wrong and reading it wrong and I know how you come to that conclusion but I can go elsewhere with the same statement. :2doh:  Not wanting to start world war III, just thinking. . . .


Those numbers make sense unless you consider that Simain was posting from an ALE perspective.  Paulus could have been the fourth suspect once it wa learned that he provided advice to the three main suspects in the form of "No body, no case".  That would make Lorenzo the 5th suspect, imo.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 12, 2007, 08:05:09 PM
I do not really think Shango implies JVDStrateen is dirty hand.  I might be wrong and reading it wrong and I know how you come to that conclusion but I can go elsewhere with the same statement. :2doh:  Not wanting to start world war III, just thinking. . . .


Who do you think Dirty Hand is?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 12, 2007, 08:07:43 PM
I just read where shango claims that Natalies head will rollout of the ocean.

Which of Shango's posts makes this claim?  I must have missed that one.  Do you know where I could find that?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 12, 2007, 08:31:33 PM
I just read where shango claims that Natalies head will rollout of the ocean.

Which of Shango's posts makes this claim?  I must have missed that one.  Do you know where I could find that?

I think she means Simian.  It's confusing to everyone because we are discussing them both at the same time.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 12, 2007, 08:37:23 PM
I just read where shango claims that Natalies head will rollout of the ocean.

Which of Shango's posts makes this claim?  I must have missed that one.  Do you know where I could find that?

I think she means Simian.  It's confusing to everyone because we are discussing them both at the same time.

Well, if it's referring to that post by 'Simian', I do believe Klass has confirmed that was not the rea Simian.  I guess it could have been Joran's brother, but we would have to ask Klaas where that IP address was from.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MsVada on August 12, 2007, 08:56:38 PM
ELEYE !!  It is so good to see you.  Now if we can only get Rockyroads back in here, I sure miss her too.  :colors:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sandy leiva on August 12, 2007, 09:05:42 PM
ELEYE !!  It is so good to see you.  Now if we can only get Rockyroads back in here, I sure miss her too.  :colors:
[/quote

sorry i meant simian, page 11 and 12 this thread.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sandy leiva on August 12, 2007, 09:17:45 PM
ELEYE !!  It is so good to see you.  Now if we can only get Rockyroads back in here, I sure miss her too.  :colors:
[/quote

sorry i meant simian, page 11 and 12 this thread.
Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:37 am
Her decapitated body to be found.
Her head to wash up on shore later.




 
 
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Stom
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   Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #210 on: August 09, 2007, 02:41:39 PM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: truthseeker2 on August 09, 2007, 11:11:37 AM
Sorry, I don't find all of what you have here as practical.  I would not seem at all practical to consider "Poppa VDS" is Poppa Van Der Straten,

Then there was no confirmation that DirtyHand was Van der Straten.
 
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sharon
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   Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #211 on: August 09, 2007, 02:48:08 PM » Quote 

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Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tylergal on August 13, 2007, 01:33:48 AM
And yes, some of us did see the bleeding girl in the bathtub and the twins saying, "Natalee H."  Did Valj see that in his bathtub? Is that where Anita saw the panties?  Was the maid sent home and Anita remanded home in order to clean up the bathroom? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on August 13, 2007, 03:52:11 AM
http://hcgtv.net/viewtopic.php?id=1110&p=12


#287 2005-06-21 4:52 pm
Siman
Guest Re: Joran Van Der Sloot, house searchedFirst of all I see a lot of you discussing the suspects being charged, The system in Aruba doesn't work like that. When they decide to go to court than they will charge them. Not before.

In the Aruban/Dutch/European system it is believed that releasing information will interfere with the process of a trial.

When the charges are presented these will be released.


005-06-22 9:27 am
Siman

Guest Re: Joran Van Der Sloot, house searchedNobody knows what the Police have with regard to evidence. You cannot say that nothing has been found.

The first time a suspect is brought before a magistrate is to confirm that the process of arrest has been carried out accordingly. After that the suspect can be brought in again and evidence or testemony needs to be presented in which the magistrate may decide that it is reasonable to keep the suspect longer.

This can be repeated up to 116 days. This is done to protect the investigation.

There is one aspect that needs to be considered. Natalee H. is 18. Legal of age in Aruba. She cannot be found. She has no duty to let her whereabouts be known. There is no crime.

All that we know is that the boys lied about dropping her off at the Holiday Inn. The Police better have A LOT of evidence to hold them.




2005-06-21 4:56 pm
Siman

Guest Re: Joran Van Der Sloot, house searchedThe FBI is completely involved with this case and is helping the Aruban Police.

One thing everybody has to understand is jurisdiction. In trial it might be turn out to be a technicality if a Judge will consider interference from outside "forces".

That is why the FBI can suggest certain things. They help with the serach and offer all technical assistance. However, their involvement is limited by jusridiction.

On another note, Aruba is an autonomous member of the Dutch Kingdom. Not a protectorate.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MsVada on August 13, 2007, 11:58:12 AM
And yes, some of us did see the bleeding girl in the bathtub and the twins saying, "Natalee H."  Did Valj see that in his bathtub? Is that where Anita saw the panties?  Was the maid sent home and Anita remanded home in order to clean up the bathroom? 

Tylergal,  I must have missed this as I don't ever recall reading about any of this......I also thought Anita and Valjentin were in Holland at the time that Natalee dissappeared.  Now I am really confused.
Ms.Vada


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MsVada on August 13, 2007, 12:08:51 PM
Pages 1187-1191
SNIP>

Lucy Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 8:59 am
pktbk
So it seems. This is the guy that Simian called suspect #5 a few days ago. I think it is on threat #1171. That is where he talks about a guy that was with Natalee for three days, they were at the kaseenos and it is caught on tape. Supposedly the 4th night, they were all together again at some hedonistic party. Theoretically, somebody escorted Joran and Natalee to this party at some “house of pleasure, vice and corrption” , where #5 confronted Joran, full of jealousy. Somebody took Joran home (don’t know who), and Natalee stayed with #5. Then, some authority figure knows that this guy kept Natalee, but the guy has a whole bunch of friends saying that he had a party at his home (that is his “airtight alibi” and supossedly, the only person that could break this alibi is “Dirty Hand” , which is some authority figure that does not want to open a pandora’s box, and perhaps is willing to sacrifice a scapegoat or something.
Complicated hum?????

Simian Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 9:13 am
Lack of evidence is not proof of innocence.
The cowboys are looking everywhere, but the land and waters hold many secrets. The Babylonians need to keep an eye on the cowboys. The process muct be protected.
The ravers need to be pinched
Simian Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:51 am
The Babylonians and the cowboys have swarmed the dirty waters. The dead dogs are stinking.
Simian Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:59 am
The cowboys’ steel and wires are screaming. The dirty water is large, deep and too wide, but they are sure there is light on their screen.
The Babylonians will be proven right. All along they were right. The story given by the gamblers might check out after all.
Simian Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:14 am
The road from the boy’s home leads to the dirty water. Look for Noord and look for Moko.
The cowboys feet are wet. They are not quickdraws, they will creep by the inch. It’s deep and wide. The Babylonians need this, before time runs out.
Simian Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:33 am
Find Aruba. Look for Noord. Look for Montaña. Look for Moko. Let your fingers connect the dots.
The cowboys feet are deeper in the dirty water. The vultures are hanging around and are ready to pounce. Hang on to your tubes.
The Simian doesn’t want to be right
Simian Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:37 am
Her decapitated body to be found.
Her head to wash up on shore later.

crs Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:37 am
I am assuming that may not be the real Sim
crs Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:38 am
Nevermind he just confirmed. That is the real Sim.

Rachael Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:39 am
Simian when will she wash up on shore. Simian are you saying you forsurely know she is dead?
edie Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:39 am
No, I don’t think it is the real sim…
Simian Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:39 am
Why does anyone want to be the Simian’s doppelganger. The Simian finds that to be counter productive.
Sorry. The Simian is leaving.
KatCall Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:39 am
Read Simian last post. Maybe big news on the horizon!
Hopefloats Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:39 am
I think it might have been a good idea to let Pvds and Croes go if they didn’t really have enough evidence to hold them. Then you have to look at they must have alot more to hold Jvds on than just lieing because they released Pvds and Croes and they had done the same (lie that is). I think this thing is much deeper than it seems and there are people invovled that can cause serious harm to all involved. That is why there are no confessions being made. People are scared to talk
crs Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:39 am
I did not make the last comment - whoever is doing the imposter deal, top and get off the damn board!!
Simian Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:49 am
I leave now. The island is stiring
AllyinMiami Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:51 am
Simian, honey…don’t leave b/c of this jerk….Escribelo en espanol….and then I will translate for the rest….or Lucy can help me…
AllyinMiami Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:55 am
CRS—lately, i think that checkme’s initial posts were accurate…there is definitely a mastermind to all of this who has not even been implicated….they haven’t talked b/c their fear of “whoever” is far worse than their trepidation of this other person…
AllyinMiami Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:57 am
Thanks Jake—b/c i understand it far better than I write it…..the real sim knows spanish, the imposter doesn’t
Simian Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:58 am
They have found her. Watch your news stations for this one. I said this was to happen. You can praise The Simian later.



I found some interesting posts before and after the comment about her decapitated body.  Thought I'd share them and see what you think.....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 13, 2007, 12:39:36 PM
Hello Ms DV,

Klaas went through and identified the posts that were from the original 'Simian'.  These two that you highlighted were not in the list that Klass provided.  Here's a link to the ones Klaas included as the 'Real Simian".

June 27th, 2005 at 11:37 am
Her decapitated body to be found.
Her head to wash up on shore later.

Simian Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:58 am
They have found her. Watch your news stations for this one. I said this was to happen. You can praise The Simian later.


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1194.0



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 13, 2007, 01:15:39 PM
Just exactly how do we know there is a REAL Simian?  Wouldn't they all be just as legitimate as the other.  Just because your IP changes doesn't mean your not privy to information that we don't have.  I have a hard time getting around the real Simian and the fake ones.  What makes them fake?  Just wondering. Is a fake Simian a doppleganger or someone that is being silly because they find Simian to be a goof ball?  I know, I am rambling, but that word "fake" is still bothering me here.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on August 13, 2007, 01:37:10 PM
Just exactly how do we know there is a REAL Simian?  Wouldn't they all be just as legitimate as the other.  Just because your IP changes doesn't mean your not privy to information that we don't have.  I have a hard time getting around the real Simian and the fake ones.  What makes them fake?  Just wondering. Is a fake Simian a doppleganger or someone that is being silly because they find Simian to be a goof ball?  I know, I am rambling, but that word "fake" is still bothering me here.

Lala's, I think the 'real' Simian was determined only by the IP & origin on Aruba.  I don't think we've ever known where the 'fake' Simian(s), doppelganger, or whatever were posting from. 

I do follow your train of thought, however.  Who is to say his/her/their input was 'fake', not factual (fully or partially) or total fiction.  It is also not known if the 'fake' was just drawing attention to his/her self, deliberately misleading or part of the whole information/misinformation attempts. 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 13, 2007, 02:00:46 PM
The answer to the IP question is a simple one. Maybe Klaas would elaborate for us.  Were all the IP's for all the Simians in Aruba? Were there any from Florida?   I wonder why I haven't asked this before.  Also, what about Shango?  Were there fake Shangos too?  If so how do we know they were fakes? What is our criteria in determining this?  I understand that the Merian Ernest posts were the same IP as Simian.  Is that correct?  Just curious. 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MsVada on August 13, 2007, 02:01:56 PM
Call me crazy....but here goes....the posters.CRS and CHECKME were outed way back at the beginning of all of this as people that were part of the undercover investigation or possibly  FBI.  I honestly remember reading this on Dan Riehl's site shortly after these were posted, (they posted there too) and then the post by Dan was removed.  I thought it was odd at the time, and still to this day think there was some validity to it.  Because right after that statement was made,  CRS nor CHECKME ever posted again under those names.  AND I specifically remember being on another site (maybe it was the "summer house" that was a spin off from the codetalkers threads) and ALLYINMIAMI came there desperately looking for CHECKME, 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MsVada on August 13, 2007, 02:02:57 PM
The answer to the IP question is a simple one. Maybe Klaas would elaborate for us.  Were all the IP's for all the Simians in Aruba? Were there any from Florida?   I wonder why I haven't asked this before.  Also, what about Shango?  Were there fake Shangos too?  If so how do we know they were fakes? What is our criteria in determining this?  I understand that the Merian Ernest posts were the same IP as Simian.  Is that correct?  Just curious. 



Lala's,  If I remember right,  whether you were in Florida or Aruba,  IP's could show up as Florida for Aruba. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MsVada on August 13, 2007, 02:04:46 PM
The answer to the IP question is a simple one. Maybe Klaas would elaborate for us.  Were all the IP's for all the Simians in Aruba? Were there any from Florida?   I wonder why I haven't asked this before.  Also, what about Shango?  Were there fake Shangos too?  If so how do we know they were fakes? What is our criteria in determining this?  I understand that the Merian Ernest posts were the same IP as Simian.  Is that correct?  Just curious. 




Lala's  The only thing I can say about whether they were the real Simian or not, was AllyinMiami said she was the only one that could vouch for them being real or not because he'd type to her in spanish.  I can remember the day she barged into a codetalkers thread to tell us what was what and that she was the only one that could tell if he was real or not. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 13, 2007, 02:42:33 PM
The answer to the IP question is a simple one. Maybe Klaas would elaborate for us.  Were all the IP's for all the Simians in Aruba? Were there any from Florida?   I wonder why I haven't asked this before.  Also, what about Shango?  Were there fake Shangos too?  If so how do we know they were fakes? What is our criteria in determining this?  I understand that the Merian Ernest posts were the same IP as Simian.  Is that correct?  Just curious. 




Lala's  The only thing I can say about whether they were the real Simian or not, was AllyinMiami said she was the only one that could vouch for them being real or not because he'd type to her in spanish.  I can remember the day she barged into a codetalkers thread to tell us what was what and that she was the only one that could tell if he was real or not. 

Yes, I know about AllyinMiami.  I have read much of her stuff from the FP.  She is one interesting character. She also knows Shango, the real Shango.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 13, 2007, 02:48:14 PM
Call me crazy....but here goes....the posters.CRS and CHECKME were outed way back at the beginning of all of this as people that were part of the undercover investigation or possibly  FBI.  I honestly remember reading this on Dan Riehl's site shortly after these were posted, (they posted there too) and then the post by Dan was removed.  I thought it was odd at the time, and still to this day think there was some validity to it.  Because right after that statement was made,  CRS nor CHECKME ever posted again under those names.  AND I specifically remember being on another site (maybe it was the "summer house" that was a spin off from the codetalkers threads) and ALLYINMIAMI came there desperately looking for CHECKME, 

Nope, I know about Checkme too.  CRS and Checkme had a secret between them also.  I have read much from them also.  In fact, at one point CRS tells where he/she is from.     Checkme responded in certain ways that compared to others also.  Checkme morphed into another poster. Simian knew who Checkme was.  Checkme knew Simian.  Ally knew all of them.  Maybe Ally was the go between.  CRS knew Checkme.  Defended Checkme on most all occasions. It takes a lot of reading, but you can see it if you read and reread FP posts.  There is another poster that knew who they were also.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MsVada on August 13, 2007, 03:00:03 PM
New girl  was one,  I've read and reread a lot,  I must not see what you see.  And I'd prefer not to continue talking in riddles,  just spill what you know.  If you cant do it here,  then get my email from Klaas


Yes I see what you are saying, but I still know what I saw posted by Dan Riehl about CRS and Checkme,  what about that?

Rockyroads stated at one time that this was all some  internet game that a group of posters was playing and none of them really knew anything she left shortly thereafter from this site because she felt someone was playing a sick game on us and she didn't like it.   


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 13, 2007, 03:26:26 PM
I am sorry, didn't realize I was riddling.  I don't think I am that good.  :lol: :lol: What is it I wasn't clear on?  I don't know Checkme, I just suspect as some do that he was connected to ALE.  CRS, said where he/she was from.  And the other person I was talking about was Lucy.  Sorry, if  I sounded like I was trying to keep something from everyone.  Not my intention. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 13, 2007, 03:28:35 PM
Also, as for the sick game...I would not be surprised.  That has been my suspicions all along. However, there are certain things that we can now verify as being correct from some of these posters.  So even as a game, they had inside info on certain occasions.  JMO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MsVada on August 13, 2007, 03:54:56 PM
Also, as for the sick game...I would not be surprised.  That has been my suspicions all along. However, there are certain things that we can now verify as being correct from some of these posters.  So even as a game, they had inside info on certain occasions.  JMO

Its okay Lala's,  I consider you the Shango tango expert,  I am just a mere novice !  hehe
I thought you knew for sure for sure, who they were. I saw Lucy's name, but not as much as New Girl's 
I  will go look for the info that Rocky had sent me way back, showing the gaming piece of all of this. It is  a fascinating read.  I had decided back then, no matter if this was a game or not, it didn't matter to me,  as long as  we are searching for answers for Natalee,  that Id keep doing this. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 13, 2007, 04:03:22 PM

Well, what you have done here is not any different that anyone else...you've made assumptions as well.  You see through your prescription glasses and others see through theirs.

For me, placing the quotes in the correct order and applying the context of the other posters encourages me to believe that Shango's Dirty Hand is Jan Van Der Straten.

I expressed my thoughts in a conversational manner.  I didn’t use them to present an argument meant to give validity to any point (i. e. to construct a fact by will).

It may make sense to present the quotes in the correct order and applying the context of the other posters.  As you say, it encourages you to believe that Shango’s Dirty Hand is Jan van der Straten.  I suspect that is because you selectively chose the comments that give validity to your “theory”, which is the same as using one’s prescription glasses to see a wanted picture, or the same as choosing only what one needs to satisfy the challenge of making our “facts” fit, in order to make the story convincing.

Take a look at DitchJumper’s theory, posted a few pages back.  He uses the same selective technique to propose that the guilty party may be someone “from the other side of the pond”, using the Simian posts as support.  DJ has proposed a thesis that could very well make a lot of sense if duly supported by arguments devised to explain a group of proposed facts. 

Both your proposal and Ditch’s make sense within the scope of discussions limited to well structured boundaries.  If one is willing to give validity to one but not the other, then it may be that one has become so attached to the first, that it is necessary to defend it at all cost ...one "owns it".


 “It's like deja-vu, all over again” (Yogi Berra).


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tylergal on August 14, 2007, 01:47:24 AM
See my logic is from an old mind that moves horizontally only but I think there is a Dirty Hand and there is a dirty hand, and they all are connected.  I think Dirty Hand is Rudy Croes and I think there is another dirty hand who is connected but I might not want to say here who I believe it to be.  Lala's and I might agree in part in some of this, perhaps not all.  I have not had her say that to me but I think I am reading between the lines.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 14, 2007, 09:30:41 AM

Well, what you have done here is not any different that anyone else...you've made assumptions as well.  You see through your prescription glasses and others see through theirs.

For me, placing the quotes in the correct order and applying the context of the other posters encourages me to believe that Shango's Dirty Hand is Jan Van Der Straten.

I expressed my thoughts in a conversational manner.  I didn’t use them to present an argument meant to give validity to any point (i. e. to construct a fact by will).

It may make sense to present the quotes in the correct order and applying the context of the other posters.  As you say, it encourages you to believe that Shango’s Dirty Hand is Jan van der Straten.  I suspect that is because you selectively chose the comments that give validity to your “theory”, which is the same as using one’s prescription glasses to see a wanted picture, or the same as choosing only what one needs to satisfy the challenge of making our “facts” fit, in order to make the story convincing.

Take a look at DitchJumper’s theory, posted a few pages back.  He uses the same selective technique to propose that the guilty party may be someone “from the other side of the pond”, using the Simian posts as support.  DJ has proposed a thesis that could very well make a lot of sense if duly supported by arguments devised to explain a group of proposed facts. 

Both your proposal and Ditch’s make sense within the scope of discussions limited to well structured boundaries.  If one is willing to give validity to one but not the other, then it may be that one has become so attached to the first, that it is necessary to defend it at all cost ...one "owns it".


 “It's like deja-vu, all over again” (Yogi Berra).


Stom,

I'll try to simplify this for you as you seem more interested in pushing some goofy psychological theory on why I provided those Shango quotes.  They were not 'selectively' chosen.  The were copied, for your benefit, in the order in which they were posted by Shango and those who were interested in deciphering his posts.  That's it...very simple.  Nothing premediated about it on my part.  I didn't write them, I just read them.  Then I provided them for you so that you can understand the simplicity.  Unless you are Shango I don't think you can refute what is clear.
So....are you Shango?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 14, 2007, 10:07:26 AM
Reposted:
Please note the additional posts in red.  Have you read Shango??


Is Van Der Straten Dirty Hand???


Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.


Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 4:00 am
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:26 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
Simian your Doppleganger is with us

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post
DirtyHand is alive

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

drax on June 27th, 2005 10:57 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze:…is DirtyHand Poppa VDS?

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:01 pm
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post

drax on June 27th, 2005 11:08 pm
Shango says: The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.
I don’t understand, Shango.

Babalú on June 27th, 2005 11:10 pm
He’s talking about Dirty Hands identity, please refer to my post of yesterday 12:30 AM. He is JVDS, and not Joran.

Lucy on June 27th, 2005 10:56 pm
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:13 pm
Lucy spoke at 10:56

watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:29 am
I think Subdude is on the right track about the media putting pressure on WHY the polis chief is leaving
.


Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am
Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29.
He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens the door to the lions den



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on August 15, 2007, 07:41:15 PM
72: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Why did the girl owe money?

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew the girl. [knew=owed?]

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:36 pm
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis. ["why did the girl owe money?"]

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
Windows looking onto Babylon are being opened by the ThreadSurfers

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post [who is "behind that window?"]

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
If the Alibi is broken by DirtyHand the walls of Babylon will shake

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak

Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.

A sacrifice will be made to spare the police; [arawak=polis?]
to spare the teepees [marriages]

He holds the real key [holds a key, and is behind a window looking ONTO Babylon]



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on August 15, 2007, 08:31:03 PM
PARADISE

DAVE HOLLOWAY

PAGE 209

The Lions - Those in the higher clique, at the top of the illegal activity on Aruba, those considered to be untouchable, i.e. can get away with murder, possibly natalee's murderers or kidnappers.  This is a motel on the island near the VIP Club that is called the "Lion's Den."  It is a very secluded place with guards.  People have been seen entering with young girls and photography equipment.


Many influential Dutch citizens are members of the Aruba Lions Club at http://www.arubalions.org/Member%20Area/member_roster_2004-2005.htm while some of the younger well-known names are members of Air Aruba Virtual Airlines at http://www.arubaaviation.com/fqpilots.html
http://www.bastardly.com/archives/2005/07/23/what-really-happened-to-natalee-holloway/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 15, 2007, 09:58:18 PM
Colombo
Which do you think was more accurate? Shango or Simian?
Do you still think the 5th suspect was Paulus?  Why?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on August 16, 2007, 10:35:07 PM
the "fifth" was used by CNN.....within hours......almost as if......well, it's almost as if the Simian was inside the briefing room :shock:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on August 16, 2007, 11:12:18 PM
I don't think S/S is a right or wrong issue......IMO-Simian is trying to get all the info out there-chosing to avoid issues which would be unfavorable to Aruba (i.e. "the game").....which leads me to speculate that he's there, and perhaps has a stake (i.e. job, business interest)

On the other hand, and IMO, Shango knows what happened, and calls out Simian for chosing to ignore the potentially damaging aspect(s).......not for being wrong

So, one cares about information surfacing that could potentially damage the island, the other would prefer that this information "see the light of day"



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 17, 2007, 12:23:46 PM
I don't think S/S is a right or wrong issue......IMO-Simian is trying to get all the info out there-chosing to avoid issues which would be unfavorable to Aruba (i.e. "the game").....which leads me to speculate that he's there, and perhaps has a stake (i.e. job, business interest)

On the other hand, and IMO, Shango knows what happened, and calls out Simian for chosing to ignore the potentially damaging aspect(s).......not for being wrong

So, one cares about information surfacing that could potentially damage the island, the other would prefer that this information "see the light of day"



You didn't answer my question...do you still think that Paulus was the person Simian was referring to as the 5th suspect?   If yes, please be more specific as to why you are certain of that fact.  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on August 17, 2007, 03:35:19 PM

well, i dont really know. i am trying to let my brain rest as much as possible. i had been going crazy about this case…annoyed with the fakeness from the media and the family. someone has said that the 5th suspect is someone named lorenzo…and that he has natalee on the island. someone else mentioned that they had her in a graffiti painted van, with a large speaker in the back…and that this lorenzo person is either related to or close to joran. joran supposedly was just helping lorenzo, but no one knows if he did anything with or to natalee. is it said that the family knows this, and the reason that nat’s friends had a cookout to “raise money” for natalee’s fund was really to raise money for her ransom. supposedly no one can say anything because then the kidnappers will do something bad to nat. of course, this is all speculation, and based on what SOME of the people in aruba are saying. i am not pointing fingers at anyone, the information comes from a bunch of people. supposedly there was some sort of car chase or something, and natalee was said to be in thr car….i dont know if that came from aruba or not….and this all explains why natalee’s family is confident for the most part that she is in aruba, and that she is alive. they are getting tips on whats going on.
dont count me on this for sure, i dont really know what is truth and what is rumor.

Comment by Kristin | June 23, 2005, 10:33 pm


Who said the alibi played for the Van Der Sloot’s? The 5th suspect is waltzing away.
Comment by Simian | June 24, 2005, 10:45 am


June 26 Paulus released/he goes home; Croes' release ordered/he walks out the next day

simian's first post: June 17/first mention of 5th suspect: June 22


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on August 17, 2007, 04:43:31 PM
Lala's:

have and will refrain from engaging in 'what I think'......

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

LIVE FROM...
Iraq War: What Next?; Eminent Domain; Mississippi Murder Trial; Aruba Disappearance Update
Aired June 23, 2005 - 14:00   ET   
[excerpt]
"But with the arrest of Judge Van Der Sloot, there are now five suspects in custody in connection with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. "


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on August 17, 2007, 05:38:12 PM
CNN transcript:      http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/23/lol.03.html


[excerpt]
Aired June 23, 2005 - 14:00   ET   
"But with the arrest of Judge Van Der Sloot, there are now five suspects in custody in connection with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. "


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 17, 2007, 09:34:11 PM
CNN transcript:      http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/23/lol.03.html


[excerpt]
Aired June 23, 2005 - 14:00   ET   
"But with the arrest of Judge Van Der Sloot, there are now five suspects in custody in connection with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. "

No. Please tell me what you actually think.  That is why I asked.  I thought at one time you believed that Paulus was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.  I am not a much of an expert on this stuff as you and Eleye are.  You guys go all the way back to the very beginning when I was just reading and lurking too terrified to comment out of fear of looking totally stupid.  So don't hesitate to tell me what you think.  I truly want to know.  Doesn't mean I will agree, but heck, that's not the point here.

Simian was mentioning a 5th suspect and a boyfriend days before Paulus was arrested, so how could he be that 5th suspect?  That is what confuses me in all this.  I have looked at it from many angles and I have come back to things you and Eleye have said.  I am not above changing my mind at all, I just want to be convinced.  Please elaborate as to who you think some of these people that Shango and Simian are talking about.  I see the Shango angle of corruption and cover up, yet many and I do mean there are many that are convinced that Shango was brought out to discredit Simian and to distract and derail things...not that the bunch in Aruba needed any help, they seem to have done a pretty good job all by themselves.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 17, 2007, 09:36:32 PM
Wish I had an edit button, I meant to say a day before Paulus was arrested..not days. Sorry. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tylergal on August 18, 2007, 03:00:50 PM
So why were AJ & MJ picked up and what part do they play according to S&S?  There, I said it. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tylergal on August 18, 2007, 03:04:11 PM
How do we know that Lorenzo has any involvement?  Could he have been set up to take a fall for the Sloots?  Is Anita capable of putting his name out there and insisting his involvement (without her ever having to mention him) since this would clear her Sporter and get him out of hers and Paulus' lives?  Is this Anita's way of paying back Paulus and Lorenzo's mother for the affair that reportedly took place in the years before Anita?  Is Anita jealous of Lorenzo's mother?  Would she be jealous since she moved to Aruba, thinking she did it to be near Paulus?  What if Lorenzo was only brought up at the insistence of Anita.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on August 18, 2007, 03:20:59 PM
"Simian was mentioning a 5th suspect and a boyfriend days before Paulus was arrested, so how could he be that 5th suspect?"

Lala's:

Please post- That would be interesting.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: FoolsGold on August 18, 2007, 03:47:08 PM
Bone, thought to be human, has washed up on Aruba.
Anyone have a good estimate of how long analysis will take and if Aruban forensic lab can be trusted?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 18, 2007, 06:58:53 PM
"Simian was mentioning a 5th suspect and a boyfriend days before Paulus was arrested, so how could he be that 5th suspect?"

Lala's:

Please post- That would be interesting.



Apparently you missed my edit post directly below this comment.  I intended to say the same day or the day before.  I was thinking ahead and I suppose you could say it's not relevant since Simian may already have known this arrest was about to happen. I think to place Paulus as the boyfriend, you must be certain that Paulus was even there earlier in the week.  It was my understanding that he was not.  I am most likely wrong on this. What does Simian consider earlier in the week?  Which day?  The day before?  Two days before?  If you go back to the earliest postsfrom those on Aruba that were made the conversations clearly talked about a 5th person.  Some refer to it as Lorenzo and others refer to it as Steve Croes.  I have heard no stories at all about Paulus having any interest in Natalee before that night in the casino. Until I see it with my own eyes, I won't believe that Natalee would be remotely interested in him at all.  Natalee was a young girl, older men would not be her interest.  The only way she would have been interested in Paulus as the boyfriend would have to be in desperation.  I don't think that was the case...but I digress...I just need to see more proof than just saying Paulus was the 5th person and the boyfriend when I did not see any of that in the casino video...then again...you have to believe that is Paulus in the video, I guess.

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.
Posted Jun 22, 4:56 PM




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 18, 2007, 07:00:22 PM
What time did Paulus supposedly leave the casino, per Joran? Anyone remember.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 18, 2007, 07:02:01 PM
the "fifth" was used by CNN.....within hours......almost as if......well, it's almost as if the Simian was inside the briefing room :shock:

Well that would be true if Clyde Burke is Simian as has been discussed. No doubt Simian was either ALE or had a very close connection to ALE.  Maybe Simian was in the prosecution office instead.  Don't they have the final say in who is and isn't arrested?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 18, 2007, 07:05:30 PM
So why were AJ & MJ picked up and what part do they play according to S&S?  There, I said it. 

According to J2K they are the ones they left Natalee with. If you believe that.  My question would be why did they choose these particular two men when I am certain they are not the only ones with said job as security guards.

Yes, you bring us back to dirty hand... :shock:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 18, 2007, 07:06:56 PM
Bone, thought to be human, has washed up on Aruba.
Anyone have a good estimate of how long analysis will take and if Aruban forensic lab can be trusted?


I am uncertain as to why this question was asked...please elaborate. Are you referring to the monkey bone?  I thought it was sent to Venezuela for testing.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 18, 2007, 07:13:13 PM
How do we know that Lorenzo has any involvement?  Could he have been set up to take a fall for the Sloots?  Is Anita capable of putting his name out there and insisting his involvement (without her ever having to mention him) since this would clear her Sporter and get him out of hers and Paulus' lives?  Is this Anita's way of paying back Paulus and Lorenzo's mother for the affair that reportedly took place in the years before Anita?  Is Anita jealous of Lorenzo's mother?  Would she be jealous since she moved to Aruba, thinking she did it to be near Paulus?  What if Lorenzo was only brought up at the insistence of Anita.

Certainly!  Everyone on the island was already suspecting him...enter the well placed word about his involvement.  Some of the early posts are clearly denying any relation to Paulus.  I read it recently while perusing the archives.  I don't remember if it was FP or LCD stuff. 

Okay, I guess I have made enough posts for now...until I think of something else.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on August 18, 2007, 09:08:53 PM
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:29 pm
I did not say an ex. Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.

Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape.  Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:06 am
The important “others” are the ones that supported the alibi.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:04 pm
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was “there whole time”. (sarcasm?)

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:31 pm
The father was confronted with evidence.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:28 pm
The father is trapped in a legal check mate.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:54 pm
…unless the package from The Hague says that he is implicated. The evidence has him in a legal checkmate. He cannot deny.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 18, 2007, 10:26:59 PM
Okay, Colombo you win.  Paulus was the 5th suspect. Now, where does that leave us?  Nowhere, because they didn't bother to prosecute him.  He was released as a suspect later...so where are we now.  Didn't they let him go because they had no evidence against him? 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 18, 2007, 11:53:34 PM
I think the evidence was more along the lines of wire taps and cell phone logs. But then again what do I know.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on August 19, 2007, 01:37:31 AM
No way will I ever believe that Paulus was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.  No way no day.  Natalee would not be interrested in him that way.  Not a chance. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 19, 2007, 10:05:12 AM
For Christ’s sake, stop the fabulation.  Once and for all, Paulus arrived from Holland on Sunday May 29th.  Where did Natalee and Paulus establish a relationship before that?  Mountain Brook?  Groningen?  Where was it that they met? 

Stop trying to force that Paulus is the boyfriend from earlier in the week, just because you can't tell the difference between different sources referring to the 5th suspect as being one person at one point in time and another, the media, referring to Paulus as the 5th suspect later on.

“Elementary, My Dear Watson!” This obtuseness says a lot about the discerning and detectivesque abilities of those that insist on Paulus being Natalee’s boyfriend before her disappearance.  It suggests that evidence fabrication is chosen over the immediate fact:  Paulus arrived from Holland that day.

If they ever met, Paulus and Natalee couldn’t have met until the eve of her disappearance, May 29th, 2005, or in the early hours of May 20th, 2005.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on August 19, 2007, 10:17:36 AM
Klaasend has compiled a thread here with all of the Simian posts that were made from Aruba with same IP, I believe. 

When I read Colombo's last post, it would seem that some of his Simian quotes were not listed on that thread.  This would mean that the references to the 5th suspect may have been made by the dopelganger or someone posting as Simian in another locale, if my search was accurate. 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1194.0


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MuffyBee on August 19, 2007, 11:37:28 AM
No way will I ever believe that Paulus was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.  No way no day.  Natalee would not be interrested in him that way.  Not a chance. 


I strongly agree with Klaas here.  Natalee would not be interested in Paulus.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on August 19, 2007, 04:11:26 PM
All:

Don't let preconceived notions impede objective analysis

I believe that Shango gets closer the the heart of the underlying motivations

"play" the "game".......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 20, 2007, 09:25:08 AM
For Christ’s sake, stop the fabulation.  Once and for all, Paulus arrived from Holland on Sunday May 29th.  Where did Natalee and Paulus establish a relationship before that?  Mountain Brook?  Groningen?  Where was it that they met? 

Stop trying to force that Paulus is the boyfriend from earlier in the week, just because you can't tell the difference between different sources referring to the 5th suspect as being one person at one point in time and another, the media, referring to Paulus as the 5th suspect later on.

“Elementary, My Dear Watson!” This obtuseness says a lot about the discerning and detectivesque abilities of those that insist on Paulus being Natalee’s boyfriend before her disappearance.  It suggests that evidence fabrication is chosen over the immediate fact:  Paulus arrived from Holland that day.

If they ever met, Paulus and Natalee couldn’t have met until the eve of her disappearance, May 29th, 2005, or in the early hours of May 20th, 2005.




Well, Stom, it has finally happened.  You and I agree 100% on this one.  I have never considered Paulus the 5th suspect of the Simian posts.

Now...the references to a party and the 'information' that was put out about Lorenzo having  a party at his house (have not ever been able to verify that other than people posting on ALL of the blogs) leads to Loreanzo being the 5th suspect.  If someone else had a party at their house that night we do not who it was.  Could have been Guido, Freddy, Andres, the Gottenbos brothers...

We do, however, know that Lorenzo was questioned very early in the case as compared to the others I mentioned above...except maybe for Freddy, so I am going with Lorenzo until I can find some information that points to someone else.  I do not think it is Paulus.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on August 20, 2007, 06:12:16 PM
Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.
(conciousness would not be required)

  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze
He knows of the forbidden fruit
and the gardeners

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 21, 2007, 07:02:53 PM

Well, Stom, it has finally happened.  You and I agree 100% on this one.  I have never considered Paulus the 5th suspect of the Simian posts.

Now...the references to a party and the 'information' that was put out about Lorenzo having  a party at his house (have not ever been able to verify that other than people posting on ALL of the blogs) leads to Loreanzo being the 5th suspect.  If someone else had a party at their house that night we do not who it was.  Could have been Guido, Freddy, Andres, the Gottenbos brothers...

We do, however, know that Lorenzo was questioned very early in the case as compared to the others I mentioned above...except maybe for Freddy, so I am going with Lorenzo until I can find some information that points to someone else.  I do not think it is Paulus.

We agree on one, disagree on Shango and other than that we just fail to concur on what absence of bias is.  The following is not a theory, hypothesis, postulate or  thesis.

I don’t know if there was a party that Joran and Natalee could bave gone to.  If I am not mistaken, there was a family gathering at Freddy’s and consequently he had an alibi.  Koen Gottenbos was in Florida.  So at the risk of being overconfident with the available information, we can discard Freddy and the older Gottenbos boy as being hosts of an event that night.

Sander, a minor, lived with his family and Andres lived at home also.  I am willing to concede that they would not have held the type of party we are proposing at home.  So I discard the Santos and the Gottenbos homes as possible wild party sites.

We just have Guido now.  I don’t think he would have had a crazy party at his parents’ home either.  Possibly, he could have attended/had a private party at the casino somewhere, but if he did, Joran didn’t take Natalee there because they never made it back to the hotel.  I think it is unlikely that Guido and Joran ran into each other in the early hours of May 30th.   “The gamblers knew the girl” and possibly, the gamblers were ravers also, but nothing more.

What is very significant is:

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 10:36 am
The boy was picked up at 23:00 on Sunday at Mickey D’s. Sneaked out later. Was on time for school. Don’t mix things up.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:09 pm 
You can’t remember answering a phone call at 2:00 in the morning? When the next day your son was picked up?

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 4:02 pm 
The Kalpoes have nothing to spill. They don’t what the father did. Only Joran knows why he called his Dad in the middle of the night.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:49 pm 
The phone call to the father was made at 4:00 in the morning. No wonder he was late for school.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on August 21, 2007, 08:02:27 PM
http://www.honeymooncruiseshopper.com/aruba%20wyndham%20casablanca%20casino.html

-in a glamorous, glittering Arabic atmosphere (Babylon?)

-We also feature a special high limit exclusive area.....
(for those who 'ROLL'....lions?)

-The Casino Bar offers specialty drink favorites and live music which will keep the rhythm of the night pumping

-walk away with your pockets filled with merchandise, cash, restaurant discount coupons, weekend stays and even a new car! (but the road is not paved)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MsVada on August 21, 2007, 09:05:37 PM
No way will I ever believe that Paulus was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.  No way no day.  Natalee would not be interrested in him that way.  Not a chance. 


I strongly agree with Klaas here.  Natalee would not be interested in Paulus.


Heck NO,  Natalee interested in Paulus??  That is just (http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a229/msdarthvada/pukey33.gif)plain gross


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on August 22, 2007, 07:51:25 AM
http://hcgtv.net/viewtopic.php?id=1143&p=7
2005-06-30 9:30 pm
very_strange
Guest
Re: Paul Van Der Sloot arrested
My take on Shango and Simian,

Natalee and her first boyfriend were in the casino gambling. It's on videotape. Her first boyfriend owns a gigantic house(wonder how he paid for it?) in the sticks where he has all night rave parties. The party goers have provided an alibi for their friend (he was with them)This boyfriend also owns a fancy cigarette speedboat (does anyone have any idea how much those things cost?) and 2 other houses. This boyfriend also is reported to be a major drug dealer.(hmm maybe thats where he gets all his money?) The police and politicians reportedly have their hands in the cookie jar of the drug trade. If the first boyfriend is arrested, he might name names. The cover-up is not for Joran, but for the first boyfriend...
2005-06-30 10:35 pm
very_strange
Guest
Re: Paul Van Der Sloot arrested
Aruban blogger says,

"Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Cant deny it. Its on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week.

After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him. This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.

First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.

How can this ever be solved?"

Suspect L.V.R. questioned and released. Lorenzo Van Rijn.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 22, 2007, 12:09:23 PM

We agree on one, disagree on Shango and other than that we just fail to concur on what absence of bias is.  The following is not a theory, hypothesis, postulate or  thesis.

I don’t know if there was a party that Joran and Natalee could bave gone to.  If I am not mistaken, there was a family gathering at Freddy’s and consequently he had an alibi.  Koen Gottenbos was in Florida.  So at the risk of being overconfident with the available information, we can discard Freddy and the older Gottenbos boy as being hosts of an event that night.

Sander, a minor, lived with his family and Andres lived at home also.  I am willing to concede that they would not have held the type of party we are proposing at home.  So I discard the Santos and the Gottenbos homes as possible wild party sites.

We just have Guido now.  I don’t think he would have had a crazy party at his parents’ home either.  Possibly, he could have attended/had a private party at the casino somewhere, but if he did, Joran didn’t take Natalee there because they never made it back to the hotel.  I think it is unlikely that Guido and Joran ran into each other in the early hours of May 30th.   “The gamblers knew the girl” and possibly, the gamblers were ravers also, but nothing more.

What is very significant is:

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 10:36 am
The boy was picked up at 23:00 on Sunday at Mickey D’s. Sneaked out later. Was on time for school. Don’t mix things up.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:09 pm 
You can’t remember answering a phone call at 2:00 in the morning? When the next day your son was picked up?

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 4:02 pm 
The Kalpoes have nothing to spill. They don’t what the father did. Only Joran knows why he called his Dad in the middle of the night.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:49 pm 
The phone call to the father was made at 4:00 in the morning. No wonder he was late for school.


First, before we go any further, I fully understand what is and is not a bias.  As I told you before, I am an analyst by profession.

Now...in order to evaluate Simian and Shango you have to be able to move outside the box of their posts.  Why?  Because they were rarely direct.  That said, I would like to move on since I do believe you and I are not as far off in our interpretations as you may think.

So...with respect to who had a party...from the posts of Simian, who likes to refer to this person as the 5th suspect, the only person we have heard of that had a party that night was Lorenzo.  We do know there was an 'after concert' party at La Cabana but have not seen anything on the witness/suspect list that indicates they spoke to anyone about that one.  If they did, we have not found a way to connect it to La Cabana.  So...that still leaves us with Lorenzo and possibly Freddy.  You have to admit that an alibi provided by family members may or may not be the complete truth.  So I don’t totally discount Freddy yet except that Simian says the party was at “his house"…which means Freddy has almost dropped off my list as a candidate for the 5th suspect.

As far as the Simian quotes you provided…a few things come to mind:

1.   If you check the thread where the ‘Real Simian’ posts are you will not find the June 23rd, 2005 at 10:36 post.  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1194.0
That post confirms what Joran and Paulus said, but does it comfirm what really happened or what ALE believes?  If Simian’s contact is ALE, but Simian did not really post this (a doppleganger), then it is only significant in terms of analyzing what we know Paulus and Joran have said.  The other three quotes do appear on the list of quotes attributed to the real Simian.

2.   Simian’s doppleganger repeats what Paulus and Joran have said about the 11:00 pm (23:00) pick of Joran by Paulus at McDonalds.  Yet, at 10:33 pm (23:33) someone logs into Joran’s email on the Van Der Sloot computer.  Now, is it possible that Paulus did not pick Joran up at McDonalds at 11:00 pm (23:00), but at some later time?  And that someone else took Joran home from the casino thereby placing Joran at home by 10:33 pm (23:33)?  Is it possible that Paulus picked Joran up in the early morning hours?  Maybe 04:00 am the next morning?  Even the Simian posts  do not clearly say what time a phone call was made - 02:00 am or 04:00 am?  If ALE is working with  phone records and Simian’s contact is ALE, then this should not be a question, unless there were two phone calls made.  This has not been cleared up.

3.   The third quote gives us an indication that ALE does believe the Kalpoes…again, if you believe Simian was in contact with someone close to the investigation …which I do.

4.   In the last quote Simian contradicts what is said by the doppleganger Simian.  Was Joran on time or late for school the next day.  According to Paulus, he cannot remember for sure how Joran got to school that day.  According to the headmaster Joran was there.  According to Simian he was there, but he was late.  I don’t think the question of  Joran’s attendace or punctuality has been answered.



Shango on the other hand does not even get into the school issue nor does he refer to a 5th suspect.  But, he does refer to the 46th spirit (Bifrons) and he does address the alibi.  See my next post.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 22, 2007, 12:17:17 PM
At times it seems Simian and Shango are responding to what each other posts.  I post these quotes for the purpose of tracking the discussions regarding the alibi, which Shango says can be broken.  Previously, we were discussing Lorenzo and his alibi. (and Freddy with his alibi), what Paulus said about picking Joran up, and the Kalpoes not knowing what happened.  (all this based on your Simian quotes)  I have included all of the posts so as not to interrupt continuity.

Name: Simian | Posted Jun 26, 9:27 PM
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ’cause the bird would fly away.
The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.  

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
Who knows what song the elder will sing

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl
the arawaks new the girl
and the babylonians still know the girl

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:34 pm
the struggle between the babylonians and the arawaks still remains hidden
the arawaks awaited the key
his lordship said no
the door to eden remains closed
they are preparing the fire

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak
Many pioneers have settled with the tribe  

Name: Simian | Posted Jun 26, 9:36 PM
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.  

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Did the babylonians like to make movies?
From the tears, a new river will spring forth….  

Name: Simian | Posted Jun 26, 9:48 PM
The boy told the Hindus that he didn’t need their help anymore. This was in the small hours. The confrontation was brutal.
So who heeded his call? Who switched places?
People…the bloodied, swollen tongue. The boy’s fear runs deep. They accuse him to be Bifrons.  

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The card of babylon was already played
if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation
the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made
Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles
cowboys hear the singing, but the words are not understood
The gods and the babylonians are worried about the cowboys response

Shango on June 26th, 2005 9:51 pm
The 46th spirit does not walk the same circle as the elders, this shall be his downfall

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Tribe knows all of the players, even the elders of the inner circle

Name: Simian | Posted Jun 26, 9:53 PM
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew he girl.  

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:55 pm
DirtyHand walks with the elders
Babylon knows

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 9:57 pm
The cowboys hear the singing but don’t understand the words

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

Name: Simian | Posted Jun 26, 10:03 PM
The alibi needs to be broken. The dogs have pouches on their feet. They are checking the dirty waters in Noord.
The Babylonians know what the girl did earlier in the week. Therein lies the motive. The third act will played soon, but the boy is not Ajax. He is too afraid to pull off such a feat.  

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon?
DirtyHand knows, this is his Power
there will be 46 sacrifices

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:08 pm
The 46th will pay for the children of the Elders

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:13 pm
DirtyHand walks in ALL houses
houses of the Arawaks, and houses of Rave
He can break the alibi

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:16 pm
Mary was not a Virgin
The Arawaks know
The cowboys know
DirtyHand can break the Alibi, he walks all circles
The Simian knows this

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
If the Alibi is broken by DirtyHand the walls of Babylon will shake

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:23 pm
Old treaties between the Babylonians and the Arawaks were maintained until the gods heard
Babylon now fears reprisals
the fires are lit
there will be 46 sacrifices  

Name: Simian | Posted Jun 26, 10:24 PM
The boy is no *Ajax. He is too afraid of the consequences. He doesn’t want to be made a cafone.
The third act needs to be played and the cowboys will be heroes.
This is all a **“lugubrious game” to them. They were all at the party and all of them are turning their heads. One of them needs to be pinched.  

*Ajax was the son of Telamon. He was a Trojan War hero on the side of the Greeks. When Achilles was killed, his armor was to be awarded to the next greatest Greek hero. Ajax thought it should go to him. Ajax went mad and tried to kill his comrades when the armor was awarded to Odysseus, instead. Athena intervened by making Ajax think cattle were his former allies. When Ajax realized he had slaughtered the herd, he committed suicide as his only honorable end.  On June 20th, SM posted a blurp about Joran being on suicide watch.   http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1164


**“lugubrious game” - Dali's stated desire "to systematize confusion and contribute to the total discrediting of the world of reality.  It is one of Dali's classic surreal images of sexual persecution and an obsession with castration and masturbation. It is also an image that plays off of psychic automatism and Freudian dream logic: displacement, condensation, and fetish.

If you believe Dirty Hand is Van Der Straten - which I do - Then it appears that Van Der Straten can break the alibi of the suspect who had a party.  If you believe Lorenzo had the party then you have to believe Loreanzo shares some degree of guilt.  imo


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tylergal on August 22, 2007, 02:21:23 PM
don’t know if there was a party that Joran and Natalee could bave gone to.  If I am not mistaken, there was a family gathering at Freddy’s and consequently he had an alibi.  Koen Gottenbos was in Florida.  So at the risk of being overconfident with the available information, we can discard Freddy and the older Gottenbos boy as being hosts of an event that night.

Never happened.  He was said to be at a family reunion in Florida but it was not true.  Freddy was in Aruba.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: nonesuche on August 23, 2007, 10:24:30 AM
tyler you raise an important point, I think it's impossible to rely upon the statements of Joran or Freddy and particularly not Paulus for accurate information. Koen never made a statement, only his father and Sander.

So I can understand and respect all opinions but I also cannot accept that any of us truly know the true whereabouts of any involved here either. Speculation rules in all things related to Aruba and this case, so the brainstorming around the fifth suspect I do not see as a waste of time either.

I'm not a shango/simian expert either but I do think we don't even have the bare bones of accuracy in any measure from the statements, not even close.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 23, 2007, 12:23:10 PM
First, before we go any further, I fully understand what is and is not a bias.  As I told you before, I am an analyst by profession.
Credentials acknowledged!

Quote
Now...in order to evaluate Simian and Shango you have to be able to move outside the box of their posts.  Why?  Because they were rarely direct.  That said, I would like to move on since I do believe you and I are not as far off in our interpretations as you may think.
The Simian’s comments are more than mostly indirect.  They can also be inconsistent and contradictory.  Information about various subjects change as the hours and days change.


Quote
As far as the Simian quotes you provided…a few things come to mind:

1.   If you check the thread where the ‘Real Simian’ posts are you will not find the June 23rd, 2005 at 10:36 post.  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1194.0
That post confirms what Joran and Paulus said, but does it comfirm what really happened or what ALE believes?  If Simian’s contact is ALE, but Simian did not really post this (a doppleganger), then it is only significant in terms of analyzing what we know Paulus and Joran have said.  The other three quotes do appear on the list of quotes attributed to the real Simian.
If Joran was picked up before 22:33 or at 23:00 is inconsequential.  He had not run into Natalee for the final time, so what happened between 22:33 PM and the time of arrival at C&C does not affect the final outcome, which is the key issue.


Quote
Simian’s doppleganger repeats what Paulus and Joran have said about the 11:00 pm (23:00) pick of Joran by Paulus at McDonalds.  Yet, at 10:33 pm (23:33) someone logs into Joran’s email on the Van Der Sloot computer.  Now, is it possible that Paulus did not pick Joran up at McDonalds at 11:00 pm (23:00), but at some later time?  And that someone else took Joran home from the casino thereby placing Joran at home by 10:33 pm (23:33)?  Is it possible that Paulus picked Joran up in the early morning hours?  Maybe 04:00 am the next morning?  Even the Simian posts  do not clearly say what time a phone call was made - 02:00 am or 04:00 am?  If ALE is working with  phone records and Simian’s contact is ALE, then this should not be a question, unless there were two phone calls made.  This has not been cleared up.

I can live without the 10:36 PM Simian post.  What’s more significant is that the Simian reports the call being made at 2:00 AM one time, and at 4:00 AM the other.  If his contact was ALE, it couldn’t have been a direct investigative source, because as you state, investigative ALE must have been working with phone records.  So either his source was peripheral or he fed from island talk too.

There was an Fox interview on August 2nd, where another confusion regarding the pick up time came up, being either 11:00 PM on the 29th or 4:00 PM on the 30th.  According to Greta, the day she showed up at the Van der Sloot’s with Beth, Paulus said 11:00 PM.  Allegedly, Paulus was detained to clear up the pick up time at McDonald’s, because Beth told ALE he had said 4:00 AM.  It has been stated, that he was released from prison because Greta and other witnesses confirmed that he said 11:00 PM, but I can’t ascertain anything and I don’t remember where I read that.

The link for the transcript of this interview is, for reference purposes: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,164506,00.html


Quote
3.   The third quote gives us an indication that ALE does believe the Kalpoes…again, if you believe Simian was in contact with someone close to the investigation …which I do.
Most of the times I also believe the Kalpoes.

Quote
4.   In the last quote Simian contradicts what is said by the doppleganger Simian.  Was Joran on time or late for school the next day.  According to Paulus, he cannot remember for sure how Joran got to school that day.  According to the headmaster Joran was there.  According to Simian he was there, but he was late.  I don’t think the question of  Joran’s attendace or punctuality has been answered.
According to the post “E-Mail conversation between Reporter and School” by Bondia a teacher at the International School replied a questionnaire and stated that Joran was on the bus on Monday, May 30th.  I don’t know how credible the source is, but being on the bus would have been a good precautionary measure.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 23, 2007, 12:41:39 PM
At times it seems Simian and Shango are responding to what each other posts. 

I haven’t found a process of reciprocity about these characters’ posts.  I just see Shango replying to the Simian or alluding to his comments.  It’s a one-way thing.  Just take the examples you have selected for the purpose of tracking the discussions relative to the partygoers alibi.

Before Simian mentioned the gamblers knew the girl, there was no mention by Shango about anybody knowing the girl.  But immediately after that, all the characters of the Shango comments know someone:  the shivas, the arawaks, the Babylonians know or still know the girl and the Tribe knows all the players and even the inner circles of the elders. 

The same thing happens with the Bifron comment by the Simian, which was made at 9:48 PM.  Shango posts the “46th spirit” at 9:51 PM and subsequently mentions the 46 sacrifices.

They weren’t talking to each other and the Simian clearly implies that they are not, when he expresses frustration as a consequence of Shango’s “harassment”, because Shango consistently kept a mocking tail on the Simian.


 
Quote
*Ajax was the son of Telamon. He was a Trojan War hero on the side of the Greeks. When Achilles was killed, his armor was to be awarded to the next greatest Greek hero. Ajax thought it should go to him. Ajax went mad and tried to kill his comrades when the armor was awarded to Odysseus, instead. Athena intervened by making Ajax think cattle were his former allies. When Ajax realized he had slaughtered the herd, he committed suicide as his only honorable end.  On June 20th, SM posted a blurp about Joran being on suicide watch.   http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1164 

 
Quote
**“lugubrious game” - Dali's stated desire "to systematize confusion and contribute to the total discrediting of the world of reality.  It is one of Dali's classic surreal images of sexual persecution and an obsession with castration and masturbation. It is also an image that plays off of psychic automatism and Freudian dream logic: displacement, condensation, and fetish. 
Well, I am glad that you clarified the Ajax and lugubrious game bits.  I would have thought no Ajax, meant no Lestoil, no Mr. Clean, no Spick & Span; and lugubrious game, as being a doleful behavior or pastime.

 
Quote
If you believe Dirty Hand is Van Der Straten - which I do - Then it appears that Van Der Straten can break the alibi of the suspect who had a party.  If you believe Lorenzo had the party then you have to believe Loreanzo shares some degree of guilt.  imo

We have information from two sources and we have no confirmation that they are interrelated.  The Simian brings back the subject of the ravers and the need to pinch them.  In total separateness, Shango mentions that could brake the alibi.  Tying these two comments to mean that Van der Straten could break the alibi of the party and consequently, Lorenzo shares some guilt would be the equivalent of forcing a conclusion.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 23, 2007, 12:45:29 PM
don’t know if there was a party that Joran and Natalee could bave gone to.  If I am not mistaken, there was a family gathering at Freddy’s and consequently he had an alibi.  Koen Gottenbos was in Florida. So at the risk of being overconfident with the available information, we can discard Freddy and the older Gottenbos boy as being hosts of an event that night.

Never happened.  He was said to be at a family reunion in Florida but it was not true.  Freddy was in Aruba.

"Koen Gottenbos was in Florida".


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 23, 2007, 01:42:43 PM

1.   If you check the thread where the ‘Real Simian’ posts are you will not find the June 23rd, 2005 at 10:36 post.  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1194.0
That post confirms what Joran and Paulus said, but does it comfirm what really happened or what ALE believes?  If Simian’s contact is ALE, but Simian did not really post this (a doppleganger), then it is only significant in terms of analyzing what we know Paulus and Joran have said.  The other three quotes do appear on the list of quotes attributed to the real Simian.
If Joran was picked up before 22:33 or at 23:00 is inconsequential.  He had not run into Natalee for the final time, so what happened between 22:33 PM and the time of arrival at C&C does not affect the final outcome, which is the key issue.




[/quote]

It is only inconsequential if you are questioning when Joran and Natalee were together.  It is important to note that Paulus says he picked Joran up at 23:00 (11:00 pm).  Why would Paulus pick Joran up at 23.00 (11:00pm) if he was already home at 22:33 (10:33 pm) and reading his email?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on August 23, 2007, 01:53:21 PM
tyler you raise an important point, I think it's impossible to rely upon the statements of Joran or Freddy and particularly not Paulus for accurate information. Koen never made a statement, only his father and Sander.

So I can understand and respect all opinions but I also cannot accept that any of us truly know the true whereabouts of any involved here either. Speculation rules in all things related to Aruba and this case, so the brainstorming around the fifth suspect I do not see as a waste of time either.

I'm not a shango/simian expert either but I do think we don't even have the bare bones of accuracy in any measure from the statements, not even close.

STATEMENTS:
6/16/05   Koen Gottenbos    17:10   Luigi Croes/ Juan Boezem
6/17/05   Koen Gottenbos    11:15  Johny Erasmus/ Juan Boezem
6/20/05   Koen Gottenbos    19:00   Johny Erasmus/Juan Boezem
 
6/16/05   Sander Gottenbos   17:10 Shaniro Kelly/ Clyde Burke
6/17/05   Sander Gottenbos   11:15   Clyde Burke/ Shaniro Kelly



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tylergal on August 23, 2007, 02:12:04 PM
My understanding is that Koen was in Aruba at a place that his parents had rented for him.  He was not living with his parents but was still in school, so if he was still in school --- what was he doing in Florida?  I say he was in Aruba, but I do not know that for sure but I do know there were pictures posted here saying "this is Koen's house," for sale.  The boat was backed up to the house.  The two houses had different landscaping, different paint colors and had different locations for the windows and doors.  So it leads me to believe that the person who told me Koen was in Aruba and was living in a house they had rented him is true.  I think Klaas has those pictures in which I pointed that out when it was said, "they could have changed landscaping and house colors.."  How easy to change locations of doors and windows.  There are definitely two different houses with Koen's mode of transportation and boat in the pictures.  So was it Koen's house that was hosting the party on Friday night?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 23, 2007, 02:24:54 PM

I can live without the 10:36 PM Simian post.  What’s more significant is that the Simian reports the call being made at 2:00 AM one time, and at 4:00 AM the other.  If his contact was ALE, it couldn’t have been a direct investigative source, because as you state, investigative ALE must have been working with phone records.  So either his source was peripheral or he fed from island talk too.

There was an Fox interview on August 2nd, where another confusion regarding the pick up time came up, being either 11:00 PM on the 29th or 4:00 PM on the 30th.  According to Greta, the day she showed up at the Van der Sloot’s with Beth, Paulus said 11:00 PM.  Allegedly, Paulus was detained to clear up the pick up time at McDonald’s, because Beth told ALE he had said 4:00 AM.  It has been stated, that he was released from prison because Greta and other witnesses confirmed that he said 11:00 PM, but I can’t ascertain anything and I don’t remember where I read that.

The link for the transcript of this interview is, for reference purposes: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,164506,00.html



If I remember correctly, the 11:00 versus 04.00 times came from Beth and Jug and the people that accompanied them to the Van Der Sloots house that first night/early morning.  The Alabama group says orignially Paulus said 04:00 and later changed it to 11:00 pm. So who knows.  That is why I look at the 22:33(10:33 pm) login time as significant.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 23, 2007, 02:27:12 PM
At times it seems Simian and Shango are responding to what each other posts. 

I haven’t found a process of reciprocity about these characters’ posts.  I just see Shango replying to the Simian or alluding to his comments.  It’s a one-way thing.  Just take the examples you have selected for the purpose of tracking the discussions relative to the partygoers alibi.

Before Simian mentioned the gamblers knew the girl, there was no mention by Shango about anybody knowing the girl.  But immediately after that, all the characters of the Shango comments know someone:  the shivas, the arawaks, the Babylonians know or still know the girl and the Tribe knows all the players and even the inner circles of the elders. 

The same thing happens with the Bifron comment by the Simian, which was made at 9:48 PM.  Shango posts the “46th spirit” at 9:51 PM and subsequently mentions the 46 sacrifices.

They weren’t talking to each other and the Simian clearly implies that they are not, when he expresses frustration as a consequence of Shango’s “harassment”, because Shango consistently kept a mocking tail on the Simian.


 

I agree here also, maybe I did not state as well.

Also, I agree that Simian may have been in contact with someone close to the investigation, but possibly no too close, and what we see in his posts comes from that contact. 

When I look at Shango's responses, it seems he may be responding to Simian's information in what he believes to be more to the point, yet he does it in a "not very to the point" process.  The two do actually post to each other, basically calling each other out.  Simian basically calls Shango a liar and admonishes him for his posts.  Shango taunts Simian by insinuating that Simian is not "in the know".  They are reading each other's posts, and yes, Shango responds in his usual "prose", if you will.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 23, 2007, 02:29:33 PM
At times it seems Simian and Shango are responding to what each other posts. 



 
Quote
*Ajax was the son of Telamon. He was a Trojan War hero on the side of the Greeks. When Achilles was killed, his armor was to be awarded to the next greatest Greek hero. Ajax thought it should go to him. Ajax went mad and tried to kill his comrades when the armor was awarded to Odysseus, instead. Athena intervened by making Ajax think cattle were his former allies. When Ajax realized he had slaughtered the herd, he committed suicide as his only honorable end.  On June 20th, SM posted a blurp about Joran being on suicide watch.   http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1164 

 
Quote
**“lugubrious game” - Dali's stated desire "to systematize confusion and contribute to the total discrediting of the world of reality.  It is one of Dali's classic surreal images of sexual persecution and an obsession with castration and masturbation. It is also an image that plays off of psychic automatism and Freudian dream logic: displacement, condensation, and fetish. 
Well, I am glad that you clarified the Ajax and lugubrious game bits.  I would have thought no Ajax, meant no Lestoil, no Mr. Clean, no Spick & Span; and lugubrious game, as being a doleful behavior or pastime.

 

Humor??


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 23, 2007, 02:47:18 PM
 
Quote
If you believe Dirty Hand is Van Der Straten - which I do - Then it appears that Van Der Straten can break the alibi of the suspect who had a party.  If you believe Lorenzo had the party then you have to believe Loreanzo shares some degree of guilt.  imo

We have information from two sources and we have no confirmation that they are interrelated.  The Simian brings back the subject of the ravers and the need to pinch them.  In total separateness, Shango mentions that could brake the alibi.  Tying these two comments to mean that Van der Straten could break the alibi of the party and consequently, Lorenzo shares some guilt would be the equivalent of forcing a conclusion.

I don't completely disagree...it does push the envelope somewhat.  If we think in terms of 'alibi', everyone apparently has one.  So which alibi does Shango seem to think can be broken by Dirty Hand (Van Der Straten)?

I still think the Lorenzo alibi is a possibility here.  The flow of the posts does present it as an option.

Did Paulus pick Joran up at 11:00 pm or 04:00 am?  If not until 04:00, then Paulus was lying for some reason.  What would Van Der Straten have that could break that alibi?  (computer records?)  Shango does not say, or, if he did say we have not identified that post.

And of course the Kalpoes and Freddy and Guido...they all must have provided information as to their whereabouts when Natalee went missing.

Which alibi do you think Shango refers to here?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 23, 2007, 02:51:52 PM
My understanding is that Koen was in Aruba at a place that his parents had rented for him.  He was not living with his parents but was still in school, so if he was still in school --- what was he doing in Florida?  I say he was in Aruba, but I do not know that for sure but I do know there were pictures posted here saying "this is Koen's house," for sale.  The boat was backed up to the house.  The two houses had different landscaping, different paint colors and had different locations for the windows and doors.  So it leads me to believe that the person who told me Koen was in Aruba and was living in a house they had rented him is true.  I think Klaas has those pictures in which I pointed that out when it was said, "they could have changed landscaping and house colors.."  How easy to change locations of doors and windows.  There are definitely two different houses with Koen's mode of transportation and boat in the pictures.  So was it Koen's house that was hosting the party on Friday night?

As good a possibility as any.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 23, 2007, 03:30:47 PM
I for one, do no think the prosecution or a judge would simply take the American's word that Paulus said he was somewhere at 4 AM.  The statement, IIRC, was that a witness placed him at the McDonald's area at 4 AM.  Anyone?


Shango and Simian knew each other.  If you go by what Rob has said, they were friends and IM'd each other on the well known places. Once again...IF you read the old FP archives IN ORDER you will see that Simian and Shango converse quite a bit.  It's the posts interjected between that makes for difficult reading. Often unrelated to what is being said by Shango and Simian.  Look for their friends posts before and after to understand the questions and answers.

Where did we come up with the idea that Koen was not in Aruba at this time?  Who told us this?  Bondia? Scuba? Melody? Anita?  Who?  Why doesn't Sander say that Koen was never there on the island?  Why isn't Koen participating in the "family" function?  They moved to Georgia together, why not go to Florida together?  Sander asks Joran to go out with him on his boat the very same day Joran goes to the casino.  I get the impression the reason he did not go with Sander was because of the free tournament.  That means Sander was out late at night too?  On the boat?  By himself?   Really!

Koen was clearly being questioned and giving statements according to Dr. Phil requests.  Notice the times some of these were taken.  Sander was being questioned at the same time.  June 16, who was questioning Koen?

Answers, sometimes are known
In advance of the proposed inquiry...

The guilty often lie to keep the story alive
Even when the truth is already apparent...

(that sounds Shangoish, it's not... it's my own little riddle)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 23, 2007, 03:33:00 PM
And one last thing...if you try to understand Shango in a logical context you are only fooling yourself...Shango is not logical.  Otherwise why post in riddles?  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 23, 2007, 04:00:05 PM
I for one, do no think the prosecution or a judge would simply take the American's word that Paulus said he was somewhere at 4 AM.  The statement, IIRC, was that a witness placed him at the McDonald's area at 4 AM.  Anyone?


Shango and Simian knew each other.  If you go by what Rob has said, they were friends and IM'd each other on the well known places. Once again...IF you read the old FP archives IN ORDER you will see that Simian and Shango converse quite a bit.  It's the posts interjected between that makes for difficult reading. Often unrelated to what is being said by Shango and Simian.  Look for their friends posts before and after to understand the questions and answers.

Where did we come up with the idea that Koen was not in Aruba at this time?  Who told us this?  Bondia? Scuba? Melody? Anita?  Who?  Why doesn't Sander say that Koen was never there on the island?  Why isn't Sander  participating in the "family" function?  They moved to Georgia together, why not go to Florida together?  Sander asks Joran to go out with him on his boat the very same day Joran goes to the casino.  I get the impression the reason he did not go with Sander was because of the free tournament.  That means Sander was out late at night too?  On the boat?  By himself?   Really!

Koen was clearly being questioned and giving statements according to Dr. Phil requests.  Notice the times some of these were taken.  Sander was being questioned at the same time.  June 16, who was questioning Sander?

Answers, sometimes are known
In advance of the proposed inquiry...

The guilty often lie to keep the story alive
Even when the truth is already apparent...

(that sounds Shangoish, it's not... it's my own little riddle)


I NEED AN EDIT BUTTON>  SEE RED ABOVE>  :roll: :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 23, 2007, 04:14:12 PM
I for one, do no think the prosecution or a judge would simply take the American's word that Paulus said he was somewhere at 4 AM.  The statement, IIRC, was that a witness placed him at the McDonald's area at 4 AM.  Anyone?


Shango and Simian knew each other.  If you go by what Rob has said, they were friends and IM'd each other on the well known places. Once again...IF you read the old FP archives IN ORDER you will see that Simian and Shango converse quite a bit.  It's the posts interjected between that makes for difficult reading. Often unrelated to what is being said by Shango and Simian.  Look for their friends posts before and after to understand the questions and answers.


Lala's,

I have read the posts from the old Front Pages IN ORDER a number of times.  Shango's first few posts are directed at Simian.  Simian does not directly respond to Shango until he is pizzed off.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost.
Will one of the cards sing?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians do not like the Babylonian intrusion.
The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Simian, why was the key from the Babylons Palace not used to open the Sumerians Door ?
They have become famished and Eden is beckoning….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Simian, why was the key from the Babylons Palace not used to open the Sumerians Door ?
They have become famished and Eden is beckoning….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:30 pm
Simian, his lordship did not bring the key for the Arawaks
So it will remain “cowboys and indians”
The posse was too late

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:33 pm
Simian, His Lordship did not bring the key found in the car, it did not exist
The arawaks can’t open the door
Hope lies with the cowbous,
but the posse was too late
Eden is still distant

Simian is not responding to Shango at this time.

Two days later they engage:


Name: Simian | Posted Jun 28, 1:52 AM
The Simian says that The Simian only reports developments ahead of time. The Simian thinks was is going on is shameless. Playing with feelings.
Th Simian’s umbilical is buried close to the heart of the island. NOBODY EVER try to put us down. The Simian hates what he has been reading.
All things must pass.

Name: Simian | Posted Jun 28, 2:01 AM
The Simian is getting out. Knows Shango, knows Shock me, knows Checkme. Do not underestimate the power of the ping.
Shango is a dumb copycat. Maybe the Simian should place a call on you. Get you 8 days with a hole to take a dump in. Complementary peanut butter on stale bread for you, you fool.
The Simian is angry. Over and out.

Name: Simian | Posted Jun 28, 2:09 AM
The Simian is disapointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom, but like to say the he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources. Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.
Seeing how this has been used to foul, the Simian will again say that he will retire.

Name: Simian | Posted Jun 28, 2:18 AM
F@ck the poetry. The Simian is a frenchman. Blue blood if you should know.


Simian makes a few posts in French and Pap

Then:

Name: Simian | Posted Jun 28, 2:32
Shango, you have been pinged. No pone bo mes na liña. E cosnan cu bo a papia awe por haci’bo dolor mañan. Cera bo boca y no papia di loke bo no sa. Bai drumi, paso ta laat.
Hopi hende ta lesa loke bo ta skibi. Nan lanta na porta di bo cas mañan, no spanta.


Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:45 am
Shango finds it very humorous (and quite fitting) that a frenchman would assume the monniker of a Primate

Name: Simian | Posted Jun 28, 2:50 AM
As opposed to? Crack a book some time…
Posted Jun 28, 2:50 AM

And then Shango rants:

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys
DirtyHand knows
Simian knows
The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day
Shango said no two times
Is Simian a DirtyHand too
Has the Simian played with the lions
in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes
where the innocent flies are lured?
Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals?
Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno,
not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!


While Shango refers to the Simian doppleganger, these posts were identified as 'real Simian' posts.

I don't see any other direct interaction between the two.  We can suppose (which I have done in order to include or eliminate scenarios) they are posting in the same vein at times. 

So...I have no idea if they were friends or where that information came from.  But, if they were they did a good job of hiding it.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 23, 2007, 08:16:01 PM
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Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
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Quote from: Lala'sMom on Today at 02:30:47 PM
I for one, do no think the prosecution or a judge would simply take the American's word that Paulus said he was somewhere at 4 AM.  The statement, IIRC, was that a witness placed him at the McDonald's area at 4 AM.  Anyone?


Shango and Simian knew each other.  If you go by what Rob has said, they were friends and IM'd each other on the well known places. Once again...IF you read the old FP archives IN ORDER you will see that Simian and Shango converse quite a bit.  It's the posts interjected between that makes for difficult reading. Often unrelated to what is being said by Shango and Simian.  Look for their friends posts before and after to understand the questions and answers.


Lala's,

I have read the posts from the old Front Pages IN ORDER a number of times.  Shango's first few posts are directed at Simian.  Simian does not directly respond to Shango until he is pizzed off.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost.
Will one of the cards sing?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians do not like the Babylonian intrusion.
The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Simian, why was the key from the Babylons Palace not used to open the Sumerians Door ?
They have become famished and Eden is beckoning….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Simian, why was the key from the Babylons Palace not used to open the Sumerians Door ?
They have become famished and Eden is beckoning….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:30 pm
Simian, his lordship did not bring the key for the Arawaks
So it will remain “cowboys and indians”
The posse was too late

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:33 pm
Simian, His Lordship did not bring the key found in the car, it did not exist
The arawaks can’t open the door
Hope lies with the cowbous,
but the posse was too late
Eden is still distant

Simian is not responding to Shango at this time.

Two days later they engage:

Name: Simian | Posted Jun 28, 1:52 AM
The Simian says that The Simian only reports developments ahead of time. The Simian thinks was is going on is shameless. Playing with feelings.
Th Simian’s umbilical is buried close to the heart of the island. NOBODY EVER try to put us down. The Simian hates what he has been reading.
All things must pass.

Name: Simian | Posted Jun 28, 2:01 AM
The Simian is getting out. Knows Shango, knows Shock me, knows Checkme. Do not underestimate the power of the ping.
Shango is a dumb copycat. Maybe the Simian should place a call on you. Get you 8 days with a hole to take a dump in. Complementary peanut butter on stale bread for you, you fool.
The Simian is angry. Over and out.

Name: Simian | Posted Jun 28, 2:09 AM
The Simian is disapointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom, but like to say the he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources. Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.
Seeing how this has been used to foul, the Simian will again say that he will retire.

Name: Simian | Posted Jun 28, 2:18 AM
F@ck the poetry. The Simian is a frenchman. Blue blood if you should know.


Simian makes a few posts in French and Pap

Then:

Name: Simian | Posted Jun 28, 2:32
Shango, you have been pinged. No pone bo mes na liña. E cosnan cu bo a papia awe por haci’bo dolor mañan. Cera bo boca y no papia di loke bo no sa. Bai drumi, paso ta laat.
Hopi hende ta lesa loke bo ta skibi. Nan lanta na porta di bo cas mañan, no spanta.


Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:45 am
Shango finds it very humorous (and quite fitting) that a frenchman would assume the monniker of a Primate

Name: Simian | Posted Jun 28, 2:50 AM
As opposed to? Crack a book some time…
Posted Jun 28, 2:50 AM

And then Shango rants:

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys
DirtyHand knows
Simian knows
The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day
Shango said no two times
Is Simian a DirtyHand too
Has the Simian played with the lions
in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes
where the innocent flies are lured?
Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals?
Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno,
not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!


While Shango refers to the Simian doppleganger, these posts were identified as 'real Simian' posts.

I don't see any other direct interaction between the two.  We can suppose (which I have done in order to include or eliminate scenarios) they are posting in the same vein at times.

So...I have no idea if they were friends or where that information came from.  But, if they were they did a good job of hiding it.


I am confused as your point?  What did I say to get you after me?  :lol: There is interaction between them.  I think I am lost as what you are saying?  That Simian and Shango did not know each other and did not interact at anytime? It depends on whose information you choose to believe as to who they are and what they knew.  I am only pointing out some of the things we have discussed before on SM concerning Shango and Simian, more so Shango. I did not say I believed it, just passing it along.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 23, 2007, 09:39:31 PM
Lala's,

I'm not "after you".  Not at all.

My point was that Shango started his posting career here addressing Simian directly.  Simian, however, did not respond directly to Shango's questions.  They did, however, respond to each other with some degree of animosity right before Shango stopped posting.  It does not appear that they were friends.  If they knew each other I doubt Simian would have mentioned the "power of the ping".  I know where you said that information came from, I'm just not sure where he got it from.

What started this line of thinking was trying to determine if they were talking about the same things at the same time.  When Simian mentions the 5th suspect, Shango does not post anything about a 5th suspect.  He does, however, take up Simian's reference to Bifrons so I have been looking at all of the original posts to see if I can determine which Simian posts Shango takes up and uses his own method of posting in riddle form.

We're cool, lady.  No problem here.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 23, 2007, 11:06:44 PM
Oh good.  I feel better now. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tylergal on August 24, 2007, 01:22:21 AM

I can live without the 10:36 PM Simian post.  What’s more significant is that the Simian reports the call being made at 2:00 AM one time, and at 4:00 AM the other.  If his contact was ALE, it couldn’t have been a direct investigative source, because as you state, investigative ALE must have been working with phone records.  So either his source was peripheral or he fed from island talk too.

There was an Fox interview on August 2nd, where another confusion regarding the pick up time came up, being either 11:00 PM on the 29th or 4:00 PM on the 30th.  According to Greta, the day she showed up at the Van der Sloot’s with Beth, Paulus said 11:00 PM.  Allegedly, Paulus was detained to clear up the pick up time at McDonald’s, because Beth told ALE he had said 4:00 AM.  It has been stated, that he was released from prison because Greta and other witnesses confirmed that he said 11:00 PM, but I can’t ascertain anything and I don’t remember where I read that.

The link for the transcript of this interview is, for reference purposes: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,164506,00.html



If I remember correctly, the 11:00 versus 04.00 times came from Beth and Jug and the people that accompanied them to the Van Der Sloots house that first night/early morning.  The Alabama group says orignially Paulus said 04:00 and later changed it to 11:00 pm. So who knows.  That is why I look at the 22:33(10:33 pm) login time as significant.


My understanding is the reason Paulus was arrested was because he indeed changed the time to 11 p.m. from 4 a.m., when he said at 4 a.m., "I picked them up" and then he said regards the 11 p.m., "I picked Joran up" and there was a witness to the 4 a.m. whereabouts of Paulus, thereby, catching him in the web he was weaving.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tylergal on August 24, 2007, 01:28:18 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:30 pm
Simian, his lordship did not bring the key for the Arawaks
So it will remain “cowboys and indians”
The posse was too late

It was along about this time that Spong went to Aruba and said he was there to play "cowboys & Indians."  It was following this that we were hearing Paulus was going to sue blogs for posting negatively about the Sporter.  Did Spong go to Aruba to help with Paulus' defense and was it Spong who was advising Paulus to sue the blogs?  Was "Spong" supposed to bring the package from the Hague?  What was that package?  Was it Guido?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 24, 2007, 09:34:15 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:30 pm
Simian, his lordship did not bring the key for the Arawaks
So it will remain “cowboys and indians”
The posse was too late

It was along about this time that Spong went to Aruba and said he was there to play "cowboys & Indians."  It was following this that we were hearing Paulus was going to sue blogs for posting negatively about the Sporter.  Did Spong go to Aruba to help with Paulus' defense and was it Spong who was advising Paulus to sue the blogs?  Was "Spong" supposed to bring the package from the Hague?  What was that package?  Was it Guido?

I didn't know Paulus was talking about suing the blogs so early in this case, but it does not surprise me to hear it.

Interesting theory about the package from the Hague being Guido...

Also, this post from Shango seems to allude to something found "in the car", yet in contradictory fashion Shango says "it did not exist".  If it's found it exists, unless they are going to say "what we found was nothing".  Could be something to do Guido, I suppose.  I think this post is interesting:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:33 pm
Simian, His Lordship did not bring the key found in the car, it did not exist
The arawaks can’t open the door
Hope lies with the cowbous,
but the posse was too late
Eden is still distant


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 24, 2007, 04:26:21 PM

STATEMENTS:
6/16/05   Koen Gottenbos    17:10   Luigi Croes/ Juan Boezem
6/17/05   Koen Gottenbos    11:15  Johny Erasmus/ Juan Boezem
6/20/05   Koen Gottenbos    19:00   Johny Erasmus/Juan Boezem
 
6/16/05   Sander Gottenbos   17:10 Shaniro Kelly/ Clyde Burke
6/17/05   Sander Gottenbos   11:15   Clyde Burke/ Shaniro Kelly


This is a very good example of why we should be somewhat skeptic and not take as valid information just because it has been repeated over and over and over.

We have read in excess about how Koen was not interrogated because he was such a chicken that had to sleep with his mother and his father had to fill in for him, but seldom have we seen denials because in fact he did give statements.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 24, 2007, 04:28:22 PM
[If I remember correctly, the 11:00 versus 04.00 times came from Beth and Jug and the people that accompanied them to the Van Der Sloots house that first night/early morning.  The Alabama group says orignially Paulus said 04:00 and later changed it to 11:00 pm. So who knows.  That is why I look at the 22:33(10:33 pm) login time as significant.

I don’t see how if Joran went online or not at 10:33 PM has any impact on the case.  I’ll appreciate more details as to why you think this is important.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 24, 2007, 04:30:15 PM
I agree here also, maybe I did not state as well.

Also, I agree that Simian may have been in contact with someone close to the investigation, but possibly no too close, and what we see in his posts comes from that contact. 

When I look at Shango's responses, it seems he may be responding to Simian's information in what he believes to be more to the point, yet he does it in a "not very to the point" process.  The two do actually post to each other, basically calling each other out.  Simian basically calls Shango a liar and admonishes him for his posts.  Shango taunts Simian by insinuating that Simian is not "in the know".  They are reading each other's posts, and yes, Shango responds in his usual "prose", if you will.

I guess we can safely state that Simian and Shango’s interaction was strife among rivals, caused by Shango’s persistent annoyance.  If you agree, then we should not use the comments of one to support a “believe” about the comment of the other.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 24, 2007, 04:33:30 PM
At times it seems Simian and Shango are responding to what each other posts. 
 
Quote
*Ajax was the son of Telamon. He was a Trojan War hero on the side of the Greeks. When Achilles was killed, his armor was to be awarded to the next greatest Greek hero. Ajax thought it should go to him. Ajax went mad and tried to kill his comrades when the armor was awarded to Odysseus, instead. Athena intervened by making Ajax think cattle were his former allies. When Ajax realized he had slaughtered the herd, he committed suicide as his only honorable end.  On June 20th, SM posted a blurp about Joran being on suicide watch.   http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1164 

 
Quote
**“lugubrious game” - Dali's stated desire "to systematize confusion and contribute to the total discrediting of the world of reality.  It is one of Dali's classic surreal images of sexual persecution and an obsession with castration and masturbation. It is also an image that plays off of psychic automatism and Freudian dream logic: displacement, condensation, and fetish. 
Well, I am glad that you clarified the Ajax and lugubrious game bits.  I would have thought no Ajax, meant no Lestoil, no Mr. Clean, no Spick & Span; and lugubrious game, as being a doleful behavior or pastime.

Humor??

Partially...I had interpreted “no Ajax” as referring to Joran being tarnished from the context of undesirable behavior.  Either way, the Simian was emitting a judgment.

The lugubrious game phrase I registered in its immediacy and not in alternative intricate meanings.  The Simian adopted a more puzzling style in his final days, and I always thought that he was imitating Shango.  But a mystifying style is an excellent way to hide the reality of not knowing what happened, because events evolved differently than expected and portrayed on previous days.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 24, 2007, 04:39:08 PM
 
Quote
If you believe Dirty Hand is Van Der Straten - which I do - Then it appears that Van Der Straten can break the alibi of the suspect who had a party.  If you believe Lorenzo had the party then you have to believe Loreanzo shares some degree of guilt.  imo

We have information from two sources and we have no confirmation that they are interrelated.  The Simian brings back the subject of the ravers and the need to pinch them.  In total separateness, Shango mentions that could brake the alibi.  Tying these two comments to mean that Van der Straten could break the alibi of the party and consequently, Lorenzo shares some guilt would be the equivalent of forcing a conclusion.

I don't completely disagree...it does push the envelope somewhat.  If we think in terms of 'alibi', everyone apparently has one.  So which alibi does Shango seem to think can be broken by Dirty Hand (Van Der Straten)?

I still think the Lorenzo alibi is a possibility here.  The flow of the posts does present it as an option.

Did Paulus pick Joran up at 11:00 pm or 04:00 am?  If not until 04:00, then Paulus was lying for some reason.  What would Van Der Straten have that could break that alibi?  (computer records?)  Shango does not say, or, if he did say we have not identified that post.

And of course the Kalpoes and Freddy and Guido...they all must have provided information as to their whereabouts when Natalee went missing.

Which alibi do you think Shango refers to here?


I don’t think he referred to any.  I am convinced that Shango’s objective was to ridicule the Simian and his audience, in order to have a good laugh.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 24, 2007, 05:05:34 PM
[If I remember correctly, the 11:00 versus 04.00 times came from Beth and Jug and the people that accompanied them to the Van Der Sloots house that first night/early morning.  The Alabama group says orignially Paulus said 04:00 and later changed it to 11:00 pm. So who knows.  That is why I look at the 22:33(10:33 pm) login time as significant.

I don’t see how if Joran went online or not at 10:33 PM has any impact on the case.  I’ll appreciate more details as to why you think this is important.

Because if Joran was already home at 10:33 then Paulus did not pick him up at 11:00 as has been claimed.  Either Paulus lied from the very beginning by saying he picked Joran up at 11:00 (why would he) or there is a possibilty that the 04:00 am time IS what he originally said.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 24, 2007, 05:12:52 PM
I agree here also, maybe I did not state as well.

Also, I agree that Simian may have been in contact with someone close to the investigation, but possibly no too close, and what we see in his posts comes from that contact. 

When I look at Shango's responses, it seems he may be responding to Simian's information in what he believes to be more to the point, yet he does it in a "not very to the point" process.  The two do actually post to each other, basically calling each other out.  Simian basically calls Shango a liar and admonishes him for his posts.  Shango taunts Simian by insinuating that Simian is not "in the know".  They are reading each other's posts, and yes, Shango responds in his usual "prose", if you will.

I guess we can safely state that Simian and Shango’s interaction was strife among rivals, caused by Shango’s persistent annoyance.  If you agree, then we should not use the comments of one to support a “believe” about the comment of the other.



I don't see Shango as an annoyance.  Whether people like to dislike what he said, it very much provided insight into the nature of Arbua's ruling class versus the rest of the population. 

I do not agree that you can totally discount one's comments in relation to the other's.  I think Shango did just that in some of his posts.  Simian did not want to 'play'.

For instance, Shango some of Simian's terminology such as Babylonians and Arawaks.  Actually, Shango originally used the term Sumerians but acquiesced by using the term Arawaks.  I think Shango sought the interaction, Simian declined.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 24, 2007, 05:17:01 PM

I don't completely disagree...it does push the envelope somewhat.  If we think in terms of 'alibi', everyone apparently has one.  So which alibi does Shango seem to think can be broken by Dirty Hand (Van Der Straten)?

I still think the Lorenzo alibi is a possibility here.  The flow of the posts does present it as an option.

Did Paulus pick Joran up at 11:00 pm or 04:00 am?  If not until 04:00, then Paulus was lying for some reason.  What would Van Der Straten have that could break that alibi?  (computer records?)  Shango does not say, or, if he did say we have not identified that post.

And of course the Kalpoes and Freddy and Guido...they all must have provided information as to their whereabouts when Natalee went missing.

Which alibi do you think Shango refers to here?


I don’t think he referred to any.  I am convinced that Shango’s objective was to ridicule the Simian and his audience, in order to have a good laugh.


[/quote]

Maybe, maybe not.

Well, hopefully we will eventually find out.  In the mean time I will continue to look for clues that can be validated with facts.  Not an easy task.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 24, 2007, 08:32:38 PM

I don’t see how if Joran went online or not at 10:33 PM has any impact on the case.  I’ll appreciate more details as to why you think this is important.

Because if Joran was already home at 10:33 then Paulus did not pick him up at 11:00 as has been claimed.  Either Paulus lied from the very beginning by saying he picked Joran up at 11:00 (why would he) or there is a possibilty that the 04:00 am time IS what he originally said.

The Mountain Brook group visit to the v/d Sloots was at the very beginning.  Beth and Greta’s visit was several days later.  The McD's subject may have been discussed twice or it could be that one time he said 4:00 AM and the next, 11:00 PM.  What we have for sure is confirmation that the McD’s encounter was discussed the day Beth and Greta dropped in on Anita.  On that ocassion he said 11:00 PM.

If in fact Paulus picked up Joran earlier, I still don’t think the information sheds any significant light, other that point to a behavioral and character weakness (i. e. Paulus lied).  Had Paulus said 22:21 PM, it wouldn’t have incriminated Joran any more than saying 11:00 PM has liberated him from any suspicion.

The McDonald’s surroundings are quite visible.  Would Paulus have risked exposure by meeting Joran there at 4:00 AM, after the commission of the crime and or facilitation of death on the part of his son, and possibly after the disposal/pre-disposal of the body?  It doesn’t make sense…someone would have seen them.  So far, only Beth states the 4:00 AM pick-up time, while others that were present the second time around confirm the 11:00 PM statement.

A more crucial piece of confusion is the phone call in the early hours of May 30th.  There are several sources of information that refer to a phone call in the middle ob the night.  This instance could mark the beginning of the execution of the plan to dispose the body


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 24, 2007, 08:39:24 PM
I guess we can safely state that Simian and Shango’s interaction was strife among rivals, caused by Shango’s persistent annoyance.  If you agree, then we should not use the comments of one to support a “believe” about the comment of the other.

I don't see Shango as an annoyance.  Whether people like to dislike what he said, it very much provided insight into the nature of Arbua's ruling class versus the rest of the population. 

I do not agree that you can totally discount one's comments in relation to the other's.  I think Shango did just that in some of his posts.  Simian did not want to 'play'.

For instance, Shango some of Simian's terminology such as Babylonians and Arawaks.  Actually, Shango originally used the term Sumerians but acquiesced by using the term Arawaks.  I think Shango sought the interaction, Simian declined.

I was talking about the interaction between the Simian and Shango…Shango annoyed Simian.

Simian did not want to play, precisely because Shango was mocking him:

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:59 am
Ally, gracias…hay un tipo que me esta haciendo mofa. Me cansa y confunde aun mas a los otros.

Ally, thanks…there is a guy that is making fun of me.  I am sick of it and he confuses the others further more.

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:21 am
The Simian doesn’t make predictions. Only gives the group information ahead of time. Predictions are for fools. This is the Simian.
No me hagan mofa. Estoy molesto por las bobedades de Shango y Shock y Checkme. Se creen, pero no son.

Don’t make fun of me.  I am upset by the stupidities of Shango and Shock and Checkme.  They consider themselves to be (Spanish idiom), but they are not.


Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 3:02 am
Yo solo trato de pasar información antes de que se presente en las noticias. Primero, porque no se dicen las como se deben en Fox News o en CNN.
Sinembargo me encuentro ahora con un idiota que se cree hacer predicciones de cosas que no sabe. Alavez, claramente yo tampoco por no haber estado alli. Una vez mas yo solo paso informacion que tengo de gente que estan conectados en la sociedad Arubana.
Estoy muy disgustado hoy de leer como esta idiota que se hace llamar Shango esta jugando con los sentimientos de estos gringos y alavez de oír a Nancy Grace hablar de situaciones que ella ni siquiera entiende.


I only try to pass on information before it is aired in the news.  First, because they are not presented as they should in Fox News or in CNN. 
However I now run into an idiot that thinks is capable of making predictions of things that he doesn’t know.  At the same time, clearly me neither for not having been there.  Once again I just pass information that I have from people that are connected in the Aruban society.
I am very displeased today from reading how this idiot that calls himself Shango is playing with the feelings of these “gringos” (Americans) and at the same time from hearing Nancy Grace talk about situations that she doesn’t even understand.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 24, 2007, 08:40:50 PM

Maybe, maybe not.

Well, hopefully we will eventually find out.  In the mean time I will continue to look for clues that can be validated with facts.  Not an easy task.

What clues do you think have already been validated by facts?




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 25, 2007, 02:01:14 PM

I don’t see how if Joran went online or not at 10:33 PM has any impact on the case.  I’ll appreciate more details as to why you think this is important.

Because if Joran was already home at 10:33 then Paulus did not pick him up at 11:00 as has been claimed.  Either Paulus lied from the very beginning by saying he picked Joran up at 11:00 (why would he) or there is a possibilty that the 04:00 am time IS what he originally said.

The Mountain Brook group visit to the v/d Sloots was at the very beginning.  Beth and Greta’s visit was several days later.  The McD's subject may have been discussed twice or it could be that one time he said 4:00 AM and the next, 11:00 PM.  What we have for sure is confirmation that the McD’s encounter was discussed the day Beth and Greta dropped in on Anita.  On that ocassion he said 11:00 PM.

If in fact Paulus picked up Joran earlier, I still don’t think the information sheds any significant light, other that point to a behavioral and character weakness (i. e. Paulus lied).  Had Paulus said 22:21 PM, it wouldn’t have incriminated Joran any more than saying 11:00 PM has liberated him from any suspicion.

The McDonald’s surroundings are quite visible.  Would Paulus have risked exposure by meeting Joran there at 4:00 AM, after the commission of the crime and or facilitation of death on the part of his son, and possibly after the disposal/pre-disposal of the body?  It doesn’t make sense…someone would have seen them.  So far, only Beth states the 4:00 AM pick-up time, while others that were present the second time around confirm the 11:00 PM statement.

A more crucial piece of confusion is the phone call in the early hours of May 30th.  There are several sources of information that refer to a phone call in the middle ob the night.  This instance could mark the beginning of the execution of the plan to dispose the body


The 11:00 pm versus 04:00 am seems significant to me in that it begs the question "Where, exactly, were you Mr. Van Der Sloot between the hours of 11:00 pm and approximately 08:00 am.?"  I believe 08:00 am is the first time anlyone other than a family member can attest to his whereabouts when Paulus went to work. 

Also, the first time the 04:00 was mentioned was when the family and friends of Natalee went to the Van Der Sloot residence.  More than one person claimed to hear Paulus say 04:00 am, but their statements were not taken by ALE.  They have since given statements to the FBI.  As to the McDonald's location, I would only be able to speculate as to the visibility and surroundings there since I have never been there.  How many people are milling around near the McDonald's at 04:00 am?

I agree that the phone call was one that may have been the beginning of the disposal of the body.  I don't know how significant it could be, but one Simian post says the call was at 02:00 am.  At 02:34 the email account of Joran's brother is accessed from the family's computer.  Now, I suppose if that call did come at 02:00 am (or there abouts) the case could be made that the ringing phone woke Val up and a few mintes later he gets up and logs on to the computer.  This would be speculation.  You could also speculate that Paulus was not there and Val answered the phone since Paulus now he says he does not remeber answering the phone, per Simian.  Neither scenario has been publicized at a fact.  So the phone call to the house, to begin the disposal of the body, is important.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 25, 2007, 02:14:54 PM

Maybe, maybe not.

Well, hopefully we will eventually find out.  In the mean time I will continue to look for clues that can be validated with facts.  Not an easy task.

What clues do you think have already been validated by facts?




Virtually none at this point.  I do believe that Shango intended to refer to Jan Van Der Straten as Dirty Hand.  I do believe that Shango intended to indicate that the beach story was not true.  I also believe that there is a gambling element to this other than when Joran and the MB students played black jack that night.

To be quite honest, I read Simian's posts and take them for what they are worth considering that it's very possible his information is coming from ALE.  The same people who were ready to arrest two innocent men while the last three seen with Natalee were barely questioned at all.  I do not doubt Simian's objective, just the quality of the information he was receiving.  I think initially he was getting a lot of information about what was happening in the investigation.  I think as the media hype escalated and the blogs were 'screaming' about the handling of this case his information portal began to close.

Shango, on the other hand, is a big question.  Just how much did he really know?  Some say he knew nothing and was playing a game online.  Others disagree.  So, I tend to look at the posts and try to make sense out of as much as I possibly can.  The only way to do that is to allow some to the information from other sources to enter the equation.  Trying to determine which other sources are reliable is the most difficult part.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 25, 2007, 02:37:02 PM
4 AM Phone Call....this is stated in the reasons for denial of compensation to Paulus van der Sloot. I believe there is mention of a witness and the ATM in the same statement.  I believe it is in an official court document of which I can't find or don't have access to.  I am certain Klaas has it.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tylergal on August 25, 2007, 03:14:24 PM
4 AM Phone Call....this is stated in the reasons for denial of compensation to Paulus van der Sloot. I believe there is mention of a witness and the ATM in the same statement.  I believe it is in an official court document of which I can't find or don't have access to.  I am certain Klaas has it.

Also the reason, we are told, that Paulus was picked up in the first place, the discrepancy in the 4 a.m. and the 11 p.m. pickup, the denial of compensation and eye witness account.  Wonder if the lady he kept "waiting" to see for such an extended period of time at the bank that fateful morning who met an untimely death was a witness from the video the bank may/may not have had, as it was near McDonald's.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on August 25, 2007, 05:21:36 PM
TS2:

note: 
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon (arawak=polis)
DirtyHand is not an Arawak



Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak
The singing card can not be played
The cowboys would circle the wagons

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak
Many pioneers have settled with the tribe

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
Windows looking onto Babylon are being opened by the ThreadSurfers

http://www.honeymooncruiseshopper.com/aruba%20wyndham%20casablanca%20casino.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 25, 2007, 05:59:23 PM
TS2:

note: 
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon (arawak=polis)
DirtyHand is not an Arawak



Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak
The singing card can not be played
The cowboys would circle the wagons

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak
Many pioneers have settled with the tribe

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
Windows looking onto Babylon are being opened by the ThreadSurfers

http://www.honeymooncruiseshopper.com/aruba%20wyndham%20casablanca%20casino.html

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon
He holds the real key
The Arawaks fear his exposure
The house of babylon would tumble down on the teepees of the Arawaks
DirtyHand knows the cowboys will leave lootless.
He can break the alibi

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:32 pm
The sacrifice is the correct food to appease the gods, arawaks, and cowboys
but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake
even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed [/


Dirty Hand is one or many....Shango is playing with everyone.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 25, 2007, 08:09:38 PM
TS2:

note: 
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon (arawak=polis)
DirtyHand is not an Arawak



Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak
The singing card can not be played
The cowboys would circle the wagons

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak
Many pioneers have settled with the tribe

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
Windows looking onto Babylon are being opened by the ThreadSurfers

http://www.honeymooncruiseshopper.com/aruba%20wyndham%20casablanca%20casino.html

Sorry Columbo, but I don't get your point here.  If you assume that Arawaks are the polis, and that Dirty Hand is not an Arawak, then you woul have to ignore Shango's confirmation to Babalu and Drax that Dirty Hand is Van Ser Straten.  You, could however, assume that Arawaks are the non-Dutch polis.

My first guess as to the identity of the Babylonian Card would be Guido.  Michael Posner controls Guido.

You will need to be more specific with regard to your link to the Wyndham.  I think I know where you are headed with that, but am not 100% certain.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 25, 2007, 08:12:15 PM

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon
He holds the real key
The Arawaks fear his exposure
The house of babylon would tumble down on the teepees of the Arawaks
DirtyHand knows the cowboys will leave lootless.
He can break the alibi

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:32 pm
The sacrifice is the correct food to appease the gods, arawaks, and cowboys
but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake
even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed [/


Dirty Hand is one or many....Shango is playing with everyone.  :roll:

Van Der Straten is not a 'child' at all.

Arawak Dirty Hand...who appointed Van Der Straten to his last position in Aruba?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on August 25, 2007, 09:11:16 PM
TS2:

Why did the girl owe money? (she spent her nights at their tables-all they 'knew' was written down)

think:

window OVERLOOKING   QQ       Babylon......

*******as an arawak you still have Dirty Hand

Dirty Hand knows who provided escort.....*******

teepees already blowing in wind because of Dirty Hand.......but will blow EVEN HARDER IF ARAWAK DIRTY HAND revealed-hint:

ALL the Arawaks (the "fetid Arawak King," too, sounds like.....) know the house that plays the poison songs......

Arawaks often play in the small houses of Babylon with offspring of the elders=the Arawak dirty hand ("the game"=prostitution)

many teepees (marriages) fall.......

sacrifice to spare the polis, spare the teepees.......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on August 25, 2007, 09:16:04 PM
"You will need to be more specific with regard to your link to the Wyndham.  I think I know where you are headed with that, but am not 100% certain."





the "house (casa) with the path, but not of gold"

"while of gold bricks, the road is not paved"

note: the path is "the path to the maze"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 25, 2007, 09:22:30 PM
TS2:

Why did the girl owe money? (she spent her nights at their tables-all they 'knew' was written down)

think:

window OVERLOOKING   QQ       Babylon......

*******as an arawak you still have Dirty Hand

Dirty Hand knows who provided escort.....*******

teepees already blowing in wind because of Dirty Hand.......but will blow EVEN HARDER IF ARAWAK DIRTY HAND revealed-hint:

ALL the Arawaks (the "fetid Arawak King," too, sounds like.....) know the house that plays the poison songs......

Arawaks often play in the small houses of Babylon with offspring of the elders=the Arawak dirty hand ("the game"=prostitution)

many teepees (marriages) fall.......

sacrifice to spare the polis, spare the teepees.......


Again, sorry but your post is a bit choppy.  Are trying to say Natalee gambled at the Wyndham by posting that link?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 25, 2007, 10:14:34 PM
Colombo
Just quoting Shango over and over again is not discussing anything.  Unless you are willing to add some explanation for why you believe this or that to be true, I fail to see your point.  I am as lost as TS2 in that regard.  Spell it out.  You did so when you equated Arawak with the polis.  I take that to mean the you consider the arawaks to all represent the polis.  Is that correct?

So tell me, do you still equate dirty hand with one of the security guards?  Which dirty hand would that be the one that can break the alibi or the one that consorts with the elder?  Do think there is more than one or are they all the same person? 

Babylonians=
Elders=
Tribe=
Lordship=

Please tell me who you think these are? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on August 25, 2007, 10:19:22 PM
see:

« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2007, 09:57:28 PM »


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 25, 2007, 11:43:01 PM
see:

« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2007, 09:57:28 PM »

When did Oduber go to Florida?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 26, 2007, 09:44:57 AM
see:

« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2007, 09:57:28 PM »

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:55 am
Find the music
Only David left the den alive


Okay...I'm listening.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 26, 2007, 10:23:28 AM
see:

« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2007, 09:57:28 PM »

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:55 am
Find the music
Only David left the den alive


Okay...I'm listening.

Me too.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tylergal on August 26, 2007, 12:49:37 PM
What if Ann went to a party on Friday night and met a young man and they were both attracted to each other.  This young man's name is Bo.  Bo becomes obsessed with Ann and wants  Ann to be only his girlfriend.  Ann is not ready to make that commitment Ann wants to attend law school hundreds of miles away.  Bo is not interested in her education.  He knows he can provide for her.  She refuses to make a commitment to him but he does want to show the degree of love so he buys Ann a ring.  Ann does not want the ring of commitment.  Ann wants only her freedom but promises Bo at some point they will see each other again.  In the meantime, Bo is brooding about what to do with Ann.  She is a free spirit.  He does not want a free spirit.  He wants Ann to be his and only his.  He knows it was love at first sight.  Ann goes on with her life, enjoying her holiday and having fun with her friends and acquaintances.  Bo see Ann on Saturday and she wants to tell him goodbye.  He knows she is staying at the HI but does not want to go there and risk being arrested for disturbing the peace.  He sends a surrogate, Tim to speak on his behalf.  Ann tells Tim she is going ot Hot Spot Tonite.  He tries to convince her not to do that, but to go to Bo's for a party.  She refuses.  She goes to Hot Spot Tonite, engaging in fun with her friends.  She has invited Tim to go along.  Tim reports to Bo that Ann is going to Hot Spot.  Bo knows he cannot go there.  It would not be savvy.  He sends Tim and another friend, Jim to spy on Ann.  Jim tries to make conversation with Ann but Ann  rebuffs him and an argument ensues.  Jim backs off but knows Bo has sent him on a mission.  Bo has money and influence.  Tim has no means of transportation so he recruits Curley and Mo as his chauffeurs.  By evening's end, Tim has convinced Ann that he, Curley and Mo are going to take her back to her cabin so that she will be safe and will not have to deal with Bo.  Jim and Tim have been paid.  As Ann boards the chariot of Curley and Mo, with Tim in tow, Jim follows to make sure they do not depart from course because Jim has been sent to assure that Ann is taken to Bo.  Ann realizes that she is not being taken to her cabin, so she puts up a fight.  Jim who is following assures them that she must not get out of the car.  They further drug Ann at this point.  Knowing that Bo has offered a lot of money for Ann's delivery, they continue to give Ann drugs until she loses consciousness.....OK, I will stop.  Enough for today.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 26, 2007, 03:04:18 PM
I kind of liked the Curley and Mo part. LOL 

That is very convulted to me, but then again it could have happened in a similar way. So Bo would be the "boyfriend" from earlier in the week.   :wink:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 26, 2007, 03:06:14 PM
I will ask again...why did they pick out the two people from all the others to be the security guards that were arrested?  What was the reasoning there?  They had not even noticed J2K in all this except their participation as witnesses.  Why were AJ and MJ the ones chosen to be the scapegoats at first? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tylergal on August 26, 2007, 03:31:16 PM
Hmm, maybe because at some point there was a phone message on someone's cell phone. :2doh:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 26, 2007, 04:26:05 PM
Interesting, since I think Steve Croes was paid to be an alibi.  You take one guy that all of a sudden decides to provide an alibi for three people that when you read the PVs you see that no one seemed to know who he was or much about him....yet....he provided an alibi that eventually got him arrested.  You can either say stupid or idiot.  Take your pick, somebody with some big bucks would have to pay me to do something that stupid. 

Could these guards have been the only ones that fit the description Deepak and Co. provided?  Did they or someone dressed the same, work various other venues in the area? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on August 26, 2007, 04:58:50 PM
Were MJ & AJ unemployed at that time due to the Allegro being renovated, or is my memory failing me?  If they were not working, were the descriptions of the uniform 'key', at that point?  (that is assuming the uniforms were not turned it when the job ended)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on August 26, 2007, 05:03:40 PM
22     Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Lively Case Discussion #638 6/10 - 6/13/2007    on: June 10, 2007, 04:26:21 PM

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=profile;u=246;sa=showPosts;start=20


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tylergal on August 26, 2007, 06:37:29 PM
Colombo, you lead one to believe that Steve Croes and/or Mickey John/Abraham Jones was/were involved in this.  Which reference am I to take from this?  Is Steve Croes "dirty hand" that was played or one of the two cards, or are Mickey John and Andrew Jones the cards that were up his sleeve. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tylergal on August 26, 2007, 06:39:45 PM
Were MJ & AJ unemployed at that time due to the Allegro being renovated, or is my memory failing me?  If they were not working, were the descriptions of the uniform 'key', at that point?  (that is assuming the uniforms were not turned it when the job ended)

That is what I am wondering --- were they arrested because these are the descriptions of the uniforms fit the situation or did Paulus engage them as bifrons and knew what they were wearing.  Definitely, Paulus planted the idea of the Security Guards in the minds of the PIMPS to give this information so they would be picked up.  That gave Paulus a little more time.  Am I right, Colombo?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tylergal on August 26, 2007, 06:41:40 PM
We have been told that GVCs father owned the security business that covered the Holiday Inn.  We have also been told by a girl who was with GVC on the night of June 10 that he received a phone call from a family member that made him very nervous.  Did the VC family arrange to have any tapes destroyed that might have had those involved erased from the tapes?  Were the tapes destroyed on the morning before Beth's arrival that night?  Were security cameras "dinked with" by security guards for a few bucks? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tylergal on August 26, 2007, 06:43:46 PM
I do think it is worth returning to everyone arrested and try to find why that person/persons was/were arrested.  Was Steve Croes a player or just someone trying to cash in on money that PVDS was handing out for anyone who would cover the stories of the PIMPS.  Is he stupid enough and greedy enough to think his words holds so much sway that he could capitalize on it, or did he really see Natalee being "dropped" off somewhere by these PIMPS and Paulus Pimp a/k/a/ the Elder.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 26, 2007, 06:46:26 PM
Colombo
Once again, I am not sure who you are referring to...SC, MJ, or AJ or all three.  Please tell us who you think fits the description of Dirty Hand. TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tylergal on August 26, 2007, 07:57:49 PM
 :sad:Colombo and Eleye will not come out to play. :sad:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on August 27, 2007, 09:21:36 PM
To me the only person that fits "Bo" in Tyler's scenario above would be GVC, owing to the obsessive type behaviour he displayed.

We have not seen enough of Guido to know if he also could be that possessive but would be more in keeping with "the gamblers knew the girl".


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 28, 2007, 03:32:29 PM

To be quite honest, I read Simian's posts and take them for what they are worth considering that it's very possible his information is coming from ALE.  The same people who were ready to arrest two innocent men while the last three seen with Natalee were barely questioned at all.  I do not doubt Simian's objective, just the quality of the information he was receiving.  I think initially he was getting a lot of information about what was happening in the investigation.  I think as the media hype escalated and the blogs were 'screaming' about the handling of this case his information portal began to close.


Recapitulating, Simian’s motivations were honorable and he reported developments of the case in a stage where multiple possibilities of events were evaluated, revolving the three main suspects.  The most significant information reported from the investigation process was:

June 22, 2005:
- Jug Twitty was checked-out for possible insurance fraud.

- The 5th suspect has a solid alibi and he was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

June 23, 2005:
- Joran was picked-up from McDonald’s at 23:00 PM on May 29th to go home, after being in the casino.

- The presence of the corpse is necessary to have a case.

- There is a gap in the timeline of father and son.

- Phone records and PC’s login times were evaluated.

- Potential evidence collected was sent to The Hague.

June 24, 2005:
- The Kalpoes don’t know anything.

- The phone call to the father was made at 4:00 in the morning.

June 25, 2005:
- The phone call was made in the small hours.

- The Kalpoes went home and someone had to pick Joran up.

June 26, 2005:
- The gamblers knew the girl

- She spent the night at the table with the gamblers.

- Who listened to Joran’s call?  Who switched places?

Other than the previously mentioned, I can’t find any information in the Simian’s comments that could have been come from ALE, even if not first hand.  The rest of the information posted by him, is limited to personal opinions, transitory conjectures, side comments, the Aruban way, et cetera, and not the case.

The insurance fraud can be discarded, LVR has an alibi, Natalee sat at the gambling tables but this information has yet to be connected to an alternate significant lead, and the package from The Hague came up empty. 

Basically, what we have left from the inside information source is that there was a phone call in the early hours, that the Kalpoes don’t know anything, and that some unknown party picked Joran up, presumably in the island’s west coast.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 28, 2007, 04:34:58 PM
Stom,

to continue the thought about the gamblers, what do you think of this post:

 Name: Simian | Posted Jun 26, 9:53 PM
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.


I have wondered about this thinking that some of the 'gamblers' were interviewed by ALE.  If not that, what could Simian mean by 'written down'?

Your thoughts?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on August 28, 2007, 05:30:51 PM
Stom,

to continue the thought about the gamblers, what do you think of this post:

 Name: Simian | Posted Jun 26, 9:53 PM
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.


I have wondered about this thinking that some of the 'gamblers' were interviewed by ALE.  If not that, what could Simian mean by 'written down'?

Your thoughts?
Written down seems to imply routine, or common knowledge as if written in a textbook. Many believe the PIMPS engaged in  tourist "abductions" in the past.

My interpretation of this is not literal word for word. IMO the gamblers are the PIMPS we have come to know of. Those that frequented the casino's and are mentioned in the statements would be the gamblers. They would be the ones that knew her and with whom she might have gambled with a few times at their tables.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on August 28, 2007, 06:24:40 PM
Shango:

Why did the girl owe money?

"to know"=to owe

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:43 pm
The fallen judge agreed to sing because he can hum any tune
[when was ever a judge?]

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:22 pm
Because the fallen judge agreed, he can sing any song he wants

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:27 pm
DirtyHand and the fallen judge may not be crucified

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
Who knows what song the elder will sing (note: the judge has fallen)
The shivas knew the girl (?)
the arawaks new the girl (?)
and the babylonians still know the girl (?)

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:36 pm
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew the girl.


who switched places? ....find out where Joran went :shock:
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Who took the boy to the party? Who took him home? Therein lies the third act. Look up the Simian’s posts from days ago.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:29 pm
Some windows overlooking Babylon have been opened
QQ  QQ  QQ  QQ  QQ
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:41 pm
One straight path (to the maze)
to the house of Rave (lions),
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on August 28, 2007, 06:31:01 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?

The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty.
Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 28, 2007, 08:33:15 PM
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew the girl.



gamblers=Joran and Paulus?? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: ala_gunslinger on August 28, 2007, 10:30:44 PM
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew the girl.



gamblers=Joran and Paulus?? 

More like pvds then jvds.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on August 29, 2007, 09:03:54 AM
look closely -there are two games...one played by arawaks (LE)-and one that is played by lions when they "Rave"

'elders of the game, not just of babylon......'

playing cards "as an arawak" in the house of babylon.....then becoming a fallen judge.....interesting that a 'fallen judge' would sing about who was owed money.....

see link above to my earlier post re: 'playing the game'


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 29, 2007, 10:08:33 AM
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew the girl.



gamblers=Joran and Paulus?? 

More like pvds then jvds.

 :roll: :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 29, 2007, 10:32:31 AM
Colombo
According to you (please feel free to correct me :)) is this the way you see it?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
There are many DirtyHands among the Arawak, and so it has been for centuries… The ALE has had crooked cops for many years. 
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:28 pm
All preceding stated is verifiable There is proof that this is true.
DirtyHand is well known This is a person (s) that everyone on the island knows.
there will be a sacrifice Someone will pay for stirring all this up and bringing it out in public.
the gods have been talking The Dutch authorities are talking and have decided someone has to pay.
the fires have been lit 
the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot They will not find Natalee.
that is why they are preparing the sacrifice They are trying to find something that will appease everyone so things will calm down and they can go back to the way things were.
All fear DirtyHand
Arawaks and babylon This person has the power to make both ALE and the Sloots life miserable by telling the secrets.
I must go feed the messengers
I need to go give an interview or get online on the blogs to keep eveyone informed.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 29, 2007, 10:49:02 AM
Let's try this again...I think I should revise my concept of messengers from my previous post.  "Messenger" appears to be those feeding the information to Shango.  I guess that could still apply by considering that Shango could have been posting only what he was told by someone else and that it was not his original ideas.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:30 pm
Shango is not a Simian Doppleganger and has his own messengers Shango has his own informants and they are not associated with Simian's.
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys.
All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat.
The gods are talking Joran will be the one that pays for this crime because the evidence points more so to him than anyone else.  The family will then be happy and so will all the media and people will feel that justice has been served and everyone will go home and the tourists will return.  That is what is needed to end this nightmare.
DirtyHand is alive and well The truth lies with this person and if they can keep him/her from talking everything will return to normal.
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:06 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into Babylon on his 12:31 A.M. post This poster was asking if Dirty Hand could be a member of law enforcement.
Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.
This post is self explanatory.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on August 29, 2007, 11:49:06 AM

Shango is not a Simian Doppleganger and has his own messengers

the gods have been talking

All of Shango's information comes from the higher power, Olorum

Shango has not danced with the lions, nor Arawaks,and does not keep their company
Eyes of god may look from afar with great acuity.
[acuity: keeness of hearing, sight, INTELLECT]

Shango looks from afar but speaks with truth. He does not converse with the Simian, or any other worldly sources, and attempts to bring direction to speculation

I must feed the messengers [tapes are translated, 'fed']

The gods are talking

All has been seen from afar
and whispered by olorum to an earthbound son

If a bird whispers an evil secret, the listener is not the sinner!

If ye have truth, ask not how it was begotten


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 29, 2007, 03:30:15 PM
I give up! This is not a discussion, it's a lesson in futility.  :roll: :roll: ;)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Ree on August 29, 2007, 06:56:07 PM

Shango is not a Simian Doppleganger and has his own messengers

the gods have been talking

All of Shango's information comes from the higher power, Olorum

Shango has not danced with the lions, nor Arawaks,and does not keep their company
Eyes of god may look from afar with great acuity.
[acuity: keeness of hearing, sight, INTELLECT]

Shango looks from afar but speaks with truth. He does not converse with the Simian, or any other worldly sources, and attempts to bring direction to speculation

I must feed the messengers [tapes are translated, 'fed']

The gods are talking

All has been seen from afar
and whispered by olorum to an earthbound son

If a bird whispers an evil secret, the listener is not the sinner!

If ye have truth, ask not how it was begotten

I'm new at all of this, escpecially the Shango Simian discussion, but is it possible Shango was FBI?  Watching what was happening, but not participating?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 29, 2007, 07:06:46 PM
Stom,

to continue the thought about the gamblers, what do you think of this post:

 Name: Simian | Posted Jun 26, 9:53 PM
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.


I have wondered about this thinking that some of the 'gamblers' were interviewed by ALE.  If not that, what could Simian mean by 'written down'?

Your thoughts?

I don’t know, but given the Simian’s posts on June 26th, I’d guess also that he was referring to interrogations of those seen with Natalee in the casino. 

I have the feeling that June 26th was a day that the Simian began to retract his excitement and anticipation about a proximate final outcome.  I sense his lost enthusiasm for not knowing which course the investigation would take place.  Examples of his ambivalence are his comments about “the third act”…all with different possibilities, within a span of two hours.  Either he was insecure or he had a toke too many of his genetically grown Nederweed.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:03 pm
The alibi needs to be broken. The dogs have pouches on their feet. They are checking the dirty waters in Noord.
The Babylonians know what the girl did earlier in the week. Therein lies the motive. The third act will played soon, but the boy is not Ajax. He is too afraid to pull off such a feat.


Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:24 pm
The boy is no Ajax. He is too afraid of the consequences. He doesn’t want to be made a cafone.
The third act needs to be played and the cowboys will be heroes.
This is all a “lugubrious game” to them. They were all at the party and all of them are turning their heads. One of them needs to be pinched.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
The elder agreed to speak, but he he loves the boy too much. The knows the passages of the palace too well. So the Babylonians must make sure the check mate is iron-clad.
Something rotten from The Hague will have to make the third act play out.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Who took the boy to the party? Who took him home? Therein lies the third act. Look up the Simian’s posts from days ago.

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:39 am
Watch tomorrow, but do not speak, and it will all unfold before you.

The comment "All that the gamblers knew was written down" could be in reference to or corroboration of one of his possible third acts.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: ala_gunslinger on August 29, 2007, 09:45:16 PM
Stom,

to continue the thought about the gamblers, what do you think of this post:

 Name: Simian | Posted Jun 26, 9:53 PM
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.


I have wondered about this thinking that some of the 'gamblers' were interviewed by ALE.  If not that, what could Simian mean by 'written down'?

Your thoughts?

I don’t know, but given the Simian’s posts on June 26th, I’d guess also that he was referring to interrogations of those seen with Natalee in the casino. 

I have the feeling that June 26th was a day that the Simian began to retract his excitement and anticipation about a proximate final outcome.  I sense his lost enthusiasm for not knowing which course the investigation would take place.  Examples of his ambivalence are his comments about “the third act”…all with different possibilities, within a span of two hours.  Either he was insecure or he had a toke too many of his genetically grown Nederweed.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:03 pm
The alibi needs to be broken. The dogs have pouches on their feet. They are checking the dirty waters in Noord.
The Babylonians know what the girl did earlier in the week. Therein lies the motive. The third act will played soon, but the boy is not Ajax. He is too afraid to pull off such a feat.


Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:24 pm
The boy is no Ajax. He is too afraid of the consequences. He doesn’t want to be made a cafone.
The third act needs to be played and the cowboys will be heroes.
This is all a “lugubrious game” to them. They were all at the party and all of them are turning their heads. One of them needs to be pinched.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
The elder agreed to speak, but he he loves the boy too much. The knows the passages of the palace too well. So the Babylonians must make sure the check mate is iron-clad.
Something rotten from The Hague will have to make the third act play out.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Who took the boy to the party? Who took him home? Therein lies the third act. Look up the Simian’s posts from days ago.

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:39 am
Watch tomorrow, but do not speak, and it will all unfold before you.

The comment "All that the gamblers knew was written down" could be in reference to or corroboration of one of his possible third acts.

Hi STom!

If I may...

What happened on 28 June 2005?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 30, 2007, 10:08:27 AM
Stom,

to continue the thought about the gamblers, what do you think of this post:

 Name: Simian | Posted Jun 26, 9:53 PM
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.


I have wondered about this thinking that some of the 'gamblers' were interviewed by ALE.  If not that, what could Simian mean by 'written down'?

Your thoughts?

I don’t know, but given the Simian’s posts on June 26th, I’d guess also that he was referring to interrogations of those seen with Natalee in the casino. 

I have the feeling that June 26th was a day that the Simian began to retract his excitement and anticipation about a proximate final outcome.  I sense his lost enthusiasm for not knowing which course the investigation would take place.  Examples of his ambivalence are his comments about “the third act”…all with different possibilities, within a span of two hours.  Either he was insecure or he had a toke too many of his genetically grown Nederweed.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:03 pm
The alibi needs to be broken. The dogs have pouches on their feet. They are checking the dirty waters in Noord.
The Babylonians know what the girl did earlier in the week. Therein lies the motive. The third act will played soon, but the boy is not Ajax. He is too afraid to pull off such a feat.


Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:24 pm
The boy is no Ajax. He is too afraid of the consequences. He doesn’t want to be made a cafone.
The third act needs to be played and the cowboys will be heroes.
This is all a “lugubrious game” to them. They were all at the party and all of them are turning their heads. One of them needs to be pinched.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
The elder agreed to speak, but he he loves the boy too much. The knows the passages of the palace too well. So the Babylonians must make sure the check mate is iron-clad.
Something rotten from The Hague will have to make the third act play out.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Who took the boy to the party? Who took him home? Therein lies the third act. Look up the Simian’s posts from days ago.

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:39 am
Watch tomorrow, but do not speak, and it will all unfold before you.

The comment "All that the gamblers knew was written down" could be in reference to or corroboration of one of his possible third acts.

A few things were going on around this time.  Steve Croes and Paulus were being questioned by ALE and a search was to be conducted at the quarry in Moko.  I think this may have been the day Paulus was released.  Also, it is my understanding that the information regarding the forensic evidence was due back from the Netherlands around this time.

Any combination of these events could have served to discourage Simian.  I have also thought that this could have been a time when his contact at ALE began to back off providing information...for whatever reason.  Either way, you are right.  Simian did change his whole approach to posting at SM.

If "the gamblers" were interviewed by ALE I do not know who they were.  At first I did consider Joran, Andre, Deepak, and Guido, but that does not seem to fit when Simian says "She spent her nights at their tables."  So I am considering otherwise, but am not making much progress there. 

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Why did the girl owe money?


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon
He holds the real key


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:01 pm
If the door to eden is to be opened with that key, it will be tomorrow
or forever remained closed


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:12 pm
Even Flying Birds Sing
If the key does not arrive tomorrow, that door to Eden will remain closed
I must feed the messengers


Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:37 pm
How can so many gamblers be wrong about the girl? This is unbelievable.
The Babylonians need to pinch the ravers. That will need to happen tomorrow.
The Simian is leaving.


But Simian does not leave:

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:39 am
Watch tomorrow, but do not speak, and it will all unfold before you.



With the release of Paulus and the search of Moko's quarry on the 27th you would almost think they both believed this is where Natalee would be found or that the information from the Netherlands would be enough to solve the case.  Neither happened, however the search at Moko did end prematurely and was never resumed.

It seems Simian is upset that information about or from the gamblers may not have been accurate or he is being fecitious.  The way the post is written it makes me believe that "the gamblers" implied that Natalee had been to a party and now the information he is getting has nothing to do with a party.

So...and I have said this many times...I wish TES would return to Moko and finish that search.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 30, 2007, 10:43:03 AM

I'm new at all of this, escpecially the Shango Simian discussion, but is it possible Shango was FBI?  Watching what was happening, but not participating?

That has definitely occurred to me more that once, but I would hate to think our FBI was trying to post information on a public forum. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tylergal on August 30, 2007, 01:07:41 PM
I am not sure why it would/should bother anyone that our FBI was posting information; however, I think it seems unlikely.  I think FBI uses many avenues of getting and giving information, posting a board like this would simply be too benign, IMHO, for what FBI normally do but then I really do not know.  I feel this is someone from the island but some seem to definitely know one another as they talk about going to work, working nights, etc., with board participants. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on August 30, 2007, 09:45:01 PM
Brought this over from the NH thread...maybe we should rethink our 5th suspect once again. I know the thought of Natalee with sweaty Paulus is disgusting, but let's consider that maybe Simian was referring to "boyfriend" not in the literal sense, but in the fact that Paulus was himself interested in her and she was not.  I still maintain that she did not act as if she knew him if that is indeed Paulus at sitting beside her in the casino.  Then again we have yet to see the video in it's entirety.  So at this point I just don't know.  Also, who's to say that Paulus was not playing every night in the casino in order to target a young girl for his own use. Indeed, the Aruban posters were indicating Lorenzo and Steve as 4th and 5th persons questioned, so again it is confusing. Thanks Nut for posting this.

Nut44x4

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #679 8/26 - 8/29/2007
« Reply #753 on: Today at 01:57:19 PM »
   
Not long ago we were in a discussion re: 5th suspect. Apparently Croes said PVDS was the 5th.

*In a statement, Croes called van der Sloot the fifth suspect in the disappearance of Holloway, who has been missing since March 31.

Van der Sloot's 17-year-old son and two of the boy's friends, brothers Deepak Kalpoe, 21, and Satish Kalpoe, 18, were seen drinking with Holloway at Carlos 'n Charlie's bar on the night she disappeared. All three young men are being held at the island's correctional facility. A fourth* suspect, Steve Gregory Croes, 26, a disc jockey on a party boat that docked near Holloway's hotel, was arrested last weekend.




http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-06-23-aruba_x.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on August 30, 2007, 10:38:28 PM
Trying to find information about the extent of Lorenzo's questioning......from the polis' standpoint......much seems to have been "kept hidden".....thoughts???????

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:06 am
The important “others” are the ones that supported the alibi.

DirtyHand can break the Alibi, he walks all circles
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left

One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA

DirtyHand walks in ALL houses
houses of the Arawaks, and houses of Rave

He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played

DirtyHand is not an Arawak
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks


Threadsurfers, DirtyHand is more vulnerable than the Arawak King and your lances should point in his direction.
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2007/06/21/lorenzo-van-rijn-arrested-on-drug-charges-in-aruba-hmm-ya-dont-say/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on August 30, 2007, 10:50:02 PM
more......

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The boy told the Hindus that he didn’t need their help anymore. This was in the small hours.
The confrontation was brutal.  So who heeded his call? Who switched places?

where was JVDS returning from?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 31, 2007, 09:17:42 AM
Brought this over from the NH thread...maybe we should rethink our 5th suspect once again. I know the thought of Natalee with sweaty Paulus is disgusting, but let's consider that maybe Simian was referring to "boyfriend" not in the literal sense, but in the fact that Paulus was himself interested in her and she was not.  I still maintain that she did not act as if she knew him if that is indeed Paulus at sitting beside her in the casino.  Then again we have yet to see the video in it's entirety.  So at this point I just don't know.  Also, who's to say that Paulus was not playing every night in the casino in order to target a young girl for his own use. Indeed, the Aruban posters were indicating Lorenzo and Steve as 4th and 5th persons questioned, so again it is confusing. Thanks Nut for posting this.

Nut44x4

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #679 8/26 - 8/29/2007
« Reply #753 on: Today at 01:57:19 PM »
   
Not long ago we were in a discussion re: 5th suspect. Apparently Croes said PVDS was the 5th.

*In a statement, Croes called van der Sloot the fifth suspect in the disappearance of Holloway, who has been missing since March 31.

Van der Sloot's 17-year-old son and two of the boy's friends, brothers Deepak Kalpoe, 21, and Satish Kalpoe, 18, were seen drinking with Holloway at Carlos 'n Charlie's bar on the night she disappeared. All three young men are being held at the island's correctional facility. A fourth* suspect, Steve Gregory Croes, 26, a disc jockey on a party boat that docked near Holloway's hotel, was arrested last weekend.




http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-06-23-aruba_x.htm


If we are to stay true to the Simian posts Paulus would not be the "boyfriend from earlier in the week" because Paulus was not on the island 'earlier in the week'.  I cannot attest to who would actually like whom because I do not personally know any of these people.  I discount Paulus as the 5th suspect based on Simian's posts not on whether or not I think Natalee would have liked Paulus in any way.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 31, 2007, 12:24:02 PM

Hi STom!

If I may...

What happened on 28 June 2005?

Hello!

28 June 2005:

• The news of Paulus’ release.

• Beth’s expression of devastation in the media, because she felt the authorities had lost grip of the investigation.

• The day that many lost hope of finding Natalee’s body.

• The Simian talked about his intentions:  informing events and developments before they became news.

• The Simian expressed disgust for Shango, for making fun of him and playing with the feelings of FP posters.

• The Simian stated that he had PINGed Shango, that he knew Shock, Chek Me and that these too were getting to him.

• The Simian was on the defensive for Shango’s intentions to ridicule him and on the defensive for being called a female.

• Both the Simian and Shango stopped posting under those nicks.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 31, 2007, 12:32:00 PM

I'm new at all of this, escpecially the Shango Simian discussion, but is it possible Shango was FBI?  Watching what was happening, but not participating?

That has definitely occurred to me more that once, but I would hate to think our FBI was trying to post information on a public forum. 

If Shango is an FBI agent, he’s an incompetent creep.  Holding such a position empowers him with sufficient freedom to inform his superiors about the true meaning of the information he mysteriously tries to relay in the message board. To purposely give the impression that informing openly would be a threat to his personal integrity and wellbeing is equivalent to implying that he is also part of the “conspiracy” and that would make him a delinquent thug FBI agent.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 31, 2007, 01:22:55 PM
Stom,

They actually posted up through July 30th, 2005.  This is the last post I have for Shango:

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:50 am
Always remember that what is unseen is greater than what is seen
All has been seen from afar
and whispered by olorum to an earthbound son
I must leave to feed the messengers
The gods are talking
Good Night


This is the last as Simian:

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The music man will lose to a lettuce at a spelling bee. Do not accuse the man of being special.
Posted Jun 30, 4:24 PM


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 31, 2007, 01:25:05 PM

I'm new at all of this, escpecially the Shango Simian discussion, but is it possible Shango was FBI?  Watching what was happening, but not participating?

I agree.  I would be extremely disappointed to know that someone with the FBI would do that.  The only reason i could think of for them to do something like that would be if they thought information could be obtained by doing so.  Either way, it's a creepy thought.

That has definitely occurred to me more that once, but I would hate to think our FBI was trying to post information on a public forum. 

If Shango is an FBI agent, he’s an incompetent creep.  Holding such a position empowers him with sufficient freedom to inform his superiors about the true meaning of the information he mysteriously tries to relay in the message board. To purposely give the impression that informing openly would be a threat to his personal integrity and wellbeing is equivalent to implying that he is also part of the “conspiracy” and that would make him a delinquent thug FBI agent.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 31, 2007, 01:25:49 PM

I'm new at all of this, escpecially the Shango Simian discussion, but is it possible Shango was FBI?  Watching what was happening, but not participating?

I agree.  I would be extremely disappointed to know that someone with the FBI would do that.  The only reason i could think of for them to do something like that would be if they thought information could be obtained by doing so.  Either way, it's a creepy thought.

That has definitely occurred to me more that once, but I would hate to think our FBI was trying to post information on a public forum. 

If Shango is an FBI agent, he’s an incompetent creep.  Holding such a position empowers him with sufficient freedom to inform his superiors about the true meaning of the information he mysteriously tries to relay in the message board. To purposely give the impression that informing openly would be a threat to his personal integrity and wellbeing is equivalent to implying that he is also part of the “conspiracy” and that would make him a delinquent thug FBI agent.



I really messed that post up.


I agree.  I would be extremely disappointed to know that someone with the FBI would do that.  The only reason i could think of for them to do something like that would be if they thought information could be obtained by doing so.  Either way, it's a creepy thought.

That has definitely occurred to me more that once, but I would hate to think our FBI was trying to post information on a public forum. 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Vicki on August 31, 2007, 01:54:05 PM
Simon says to break the alibi...the only one with the alibi is lorenzo...he was having a party...
could the two shivas be the kalpoo brothers? and could the Arawaks be american tourists??


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on August 31, 2007, 02:45:34 PM
Hi Vicki  :P

IMO, the reference to the '2 shivas' is definitely a refence to k2.

I think many readers agree with that -- maybe not.

Arawaks are a tribe that inhabited portions of the Caribbean in the days of pirates :wink: So, imo, that is not referring to the American toursists. But -- who knows??

In my interpretation -- the Arawaks are the Arubans and other native Caribbean residents -- versus the 'Dutch' residents. imo only. I'm not sure if it includes the every day 'aruban' or only those in government and official capacities.

Again -- just my interpretation of the 'riddle' 




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 31, 2007, 02:47:39 PM
Stom,

They actually posted up through July 30th, 2005.  This is the last post I have for Shango:

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:50 am
Always remember that what is unseen is greater than what is seen
All has been seen from afar
and whispered by olorum to an earthbound son
I must leave to feed the messengers
The gods are talking
Good Night


This is the last as Simian:

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The music man will lose to a lettuce at a spelling bee. Do not accuse the man of being special.
Posted Jun 30, 4:24 PM


I had seen the Shango post, but had forgotten about it.  I never saw the Simian's.  He sounds resentful!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on August 31, 2007, 02:56:23 PM
A revision of believes about Shango is long overdue.  In the distance of passed time, the Shango comments clearly reveal an incoherent, dispersed and ad-lib manner of relaying senseless information.  They reveal also a subdued sense of humor, as well as the clear intention of ridiculing the Simian and encouraging Babaloo, Drax and anyone that dared to make outrageous interpretations of his meaningless comments.

The depiction of Aruba as a mysterious society where political and economic power holders conform an organized hierarchy of elders that control the island and direct activities of sexual perversion according to sect ranks, where the younger echelons recruit victims for reclusion, exploitation and subsequent disposal, is a by-product of Shango and the result of a social phenomena that took place within the internet communities.  A story was generated incidentally as countless interpretations of “The Riddles” were posted, all portraying that Aruba which individual posters perceived through the lines written by Shango.  The story has to be "unfictionized" if we are to have a clear path leading to discuss the most obvious participants in Natalee’s disappearance:  Paulus, maybe Joran, and whomever helped him/them.

Is anyone up for reviewing Shango in a new light?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 31, 2007, 03:16:13 PM
A revision of believes about Shango is long overdue.  In the distance of passed time, the Shango comments clearly reveal an incoherent, dispersed and ad-lib manner of relaying senseless information.  They reveal also a subdued sense of humor, as well as the clear intention of ridiculing the Simian and encouraging Babaloo, Drax and anyone that dared to make outrageous interpretations of his meaningless comments.

The depiction of Aruba as a mysterious society where political and economic power holders conform an organized hierarchy of elders that control the island and direct activities of sexual perversion according to sect ranks, where the younger echelons recruit victims for reclusion, exploitation and subsequent disposal, is a by-product of Shango and the result of a social phenomena that took place within the internet communities.  A story was generated incidentally as countless interpretations of “The Riddles” were posted, all portraying that Aruba which individual posters perceived through the lines written by Shango.  The story has to be "unfictionized" if we are to have a clear path leading to discuss the most obvious participants in Natalee’s disappearance:  Paulus, maybe Joran, and whomever helped him/them.

Is anyone up for reviewing Shango in a new light?


I am up to reviewing Shango just as it is written.  If that leads to curruption in Aruba then just because it comes from Shango does not mean that curruption is fictional.  As a result of reading Shango and reviewing comments from official statements by those in Aruba I do believe Van Der Straten is involved in any cover up and may have actually directed some of the activities after the fact.  Some may call that corrupt...and I would be one of them.

As far as The depiction of Aruba as a mysterious society where political and economic power holders conform an organized hierarchy of elders that control the island and direct activities of sexual perversion according to sect ranks, where the younger echelons recruit victims for reclusion, exploitation and subsequent disposal...to rule this out or to include it would be up to where the posts take us.  People should not arbitrarily assume that conditions such as these do not exist anywhere, because there is proof all over the world that this does happen.  If the posts lead there we cannot ignore it just because we don't like it.  Do you agree?

If you already have other interpretations in mind that let's do it.  (As long as those interpretations do not suggest that Beth had her child kidnapped or Natalee just simply ran away from her "terrible' life because that is not in Shango.  That would be discussing a "phenomena that took place within the internet" .)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on August 31, 2007, 03:17:56 PM
I should use spell check more often.

curruption = corruption


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on August 31, 2007, 03:27:06 PM
Stom

Nut44x4 made a few posts a few weeks back in the Natalee thread -- I will try to bring it over after work.

Nut found a Miami link to a Miguel Willy Ramos who is heavily Santeria involved (I think he may even use the name Shango)

I've posted some quick info that I've saved -- but Nut has better sources in the post.

These are items he 'authored'
Miguel "Willie" Ramos (Ilarí Obá)
The Empire Beats On (master thesis), Florida International University, Miami 2000
Ase Omo Osayin ... Ewe Aye, 1982 /1985
Seminario de Religion Yoruba: Santeria, 1988; ISBN 1877845051
Adimú: Gbogbó Tén'unjé Lukumí, Miami 2003
Oro...Egungun. Las honras de Egungun, Eleda.Org Publications, Miami
Dida Obi ... Adivinación a través del Coco, Carolina, Puerto Rico, 1982


here's a link from his grad school days
http://www.fiu.edu/~history/Students.htm



I've been wondering if 'Willy' was involved with our 'Shango'.

He was a grad student at FIU -- which I believe is where Jairo or Gabriel Leo (or whoever the Arubans in Ft Lauderdale working for AHATA are). The main campus is in Boca Raton -- there may be a campus in Miami as well.

It puts him in the vicintiy of Shango's 'IP' address.

Maybe he was the 'creative' consultant?? And our Aruban boys provided all the Marvel comics references?

Anyhoo -- it has intrigued me. Because I think it was a sham. And a mean spirited one. Maybe it didn't start that way. It sure turned out that way. And if the perpertrators live near me (I live in Miami -- 30 miles from Ft Lauderdale), I'd like to share my opinions with them  :-x





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Vicki on August 31, 2007, 03:43:32 PM
Hi Vicki  :P

IMO, the reference to the '2 shivas' is definitely a refence to k2.

I think many readers agree with that -- maybe not.

Arawaks are a tribe that inhabited portions of the Caribbean in the days of pirates :wink: So, imo, that is not referring to the American toursists. But -- who knows??

In my interpretation -- the Arawaks are the Arubans and other native Caribbean residents -- versus the 'Dutch' residents. imo only. I'm not sure if it includes the every day 'aruban' or only those in government and official capacities.

Again -- just my interpretation of the 'riddle' 




hey Sharon, thanks for that..I went back in Daves book and I think you are right.. I cant post here alot, Grandma with 9 grandlids3 of which I babysit..so please all of you its not that I dont want to but...I do believe weve on to something here and I will post more here..good job, everyone...CAn you please email me at JusticeforNatalee@gmail.com.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Ree on August 31, 2007, 05:19:28 PM

I'm new at all of this, escpecially the Shango Simian discussion, but is it possible Shango was FBI?  Watching what was happening, but not participating?

I agree.  I would be extremely disappointed to know that someone with the FBI would do that.  The only reason i could think of for them to do something like that would be if they thought information could be obtained by doing so.  Either way, it's a creepy thought.

That has definitely occurred to me more that once, but I would hate to think our FBI was trying to post information on a public forum. 

If Shango is an FBI agent, he’s an incompetent creep.  Holding such a position empowers him with sufficient freedom to inform his superiors about the true meaning of the information he mysteriously tries to relay in the message board. To purposely give the impression that informing openly would be a threat to his personal integrity and wellbeing is equivalent to implying that he is also part of the “conspiracy” and that would make him a delinquent thug FBI agent.



I really messed that post up.


I agree.  I would be extremely disappointed to know that someone with the FBI would do that.  The only reason i could think of for them to do something like that would be if they thought information could be obtained by doing so.  Either way, it's a creepy thought.

That has definitely occurred to me more that once, but I would hate to think our FBI was trying to post information on a public forum. 



I'm not thinking of him being "the FBI", but rather an agent who has heard what's going on.  He's not happy they can't "break" them or investigate.  He gripes to the boss and is reminded that they were invited in to "observe" and told to keep his mouth shut.  He can't therefore, officially come out and say anything, but he can try to let us know that all is not as it seems.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: mrs. red on August 31, 2007, 05:30:13 PM
I think I would be up for seeing it in a new light... I have wondered about several things including if dirtyhand was Julia... or one of her minions?  etc....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Ree on August 31, 2007, 06:00:26 PM
Stom,

They actually posted up through July 30th, 2005.  This is the last post I have for Shango:

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:50 am
Always remember that what is unseen is greater than what is seen
All has been seen from afar
and whispered by olorum to an earthbound son
I must leave to feed the messengers
The gods are talking
Good Night


This is the last as Simian:

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The music man will lose to a lettuce at a spelling bee. Do not accuse the man of being special.
Posted Jun 30, 4:24 PM


I had seen the Shango post, but had forgotten about it.  I never saw the Simian's.  He sounds resentful!

Always remember that what is unseen is greater than what is seen
All has been seen from afar
and whispered by olorum to an earthbound son

I interpret this as saying that there is a lot more going on than has been made public.  Electronic surveillance has told everything that was going on.  If I'm interpreting that correctly, then who were the messengers?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Ree on August 31, 2007, 06:01:45 PM
I think I would be up for seeing it in a new light... I have wondered about several things including if dirtyhand was Julia... or one of her minions?  etc....

I think you may have the body parts a little confused.  She's not DirtyHand, she's more like NastyAzz.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JuJu on September 01, 2007, 10:54:37 AM
I have read shango & simian a lot but I'm not even close to knowing what you all know.  I have been trying to think outside the box and have a question.  Is there any possibility that the "house of Rave" could be Carlos & Charlies?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on September 02, 2007, 09:14:29 AM
I have read shango & simian a lot but I'm not even close to knowing what you all know.  I have been trying to think outside the box and have a question.  Is there any possibility that the "house of Rave" could be Carlos & Charlies?

JuJu -- since we don't know, anything is a possibility :sad:

And yes -- that is one of the possibility's that I have tossed around since the beginning.

My reasoning was based upon a few items:

1 -- of course, follow the music.....and a few other S/S references or allusions to things happening 'after hours'.

2 -- I still find it strange that Deepak drove around the block 3 times -- almost like waiting for everyone else (the other MB students) to leave the area, so that they could return without being seen

3 -- The 'stop' that we think Deepak made in the vicinity. Was it to buy drugs? To set up a caravan of cars? Or -- the 'ok -- we're ready' signal?

4 -- Deepak's place of work -- Internet Cafe -- being so close by. Short walk over to Internet cafe if computers are needed for uploading or transmitting anything. Or even setting up remote access.

5 -- In one of Joran's stories (PV, I think) when he discusses his sexual encounters with Karin Martina (I think) he describes her 'act' as occuring outside and pretty close to C&C. By the pier, iirc. I will hve to find that one -- because it has always stuck out in my mind. His 'MO'.

So many lies lead to so many possibilites :sad:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Nut44x4 on September 02, 2007, 10:08:57 AM
As per request by Sharon re: Miguel Willie Ramos

http://www.hmsf.org/exhibitions-past-crossroads.htm
Past Exhibitions   
At the Crossroads: Afro-Cuban Orisha Arts in MiamiFebruary 23, 2001 to July 8, 2001

At The Crossroads, the first large scale exhibition of its kind, explores the unique art forms and creative processes of the Orisha religion.

This exhibition highlights the work of more than 20 of Miami’s leading Orisha artists and includes altars, ceremonial garments, beadwork, metalwork, woodcarving, herbalism, music, dance and storytelling.

The goal of the exhibition is to provide a forum for the Orisha community of over 100,000 practitioners in Miami to present and interpret its arts to the general public.

There are three guest curators for the exhibition. Ezequiel Torres is a priest of Obatalá and a master craftsman of Afro-Cuban musical instruments including drums. Nelson Mendoza is an active researcher and collector of Orisha artworks. Miguel “Willie” Ramos is well respected nationwide as a priest of Shangó and an Orisha scholar.

According to Ramos, the name “At the Crossroads” is appropriate to the exhibition because “ Miami is the point of encounter between the exiled Cuban community and other immigrant groups in the United States.”

Because Miami is also the center of Orisha worship in the United States, it is integral in spreading the word about the religion. The name “At the Crossroads” also signals the importance of Elegba, the orisha of the crossroads and divine messenger of the gods.

I have posted the following links before, but reviewing them from time to time for Shango' followers is sometimes interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shango#Worship_of_Shango

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yor%C3%B9b%C3%A1_mythology

Elders and Members of Ile Osikan
http://members.tripod.com/omo_ileosikan/id11.html
Oba and Babalosha Ilari Oba (Miguel "Willie" Ramos) Oni Shango is mentioned in the above link, as well.

7) Olokun, Ruler of oceans: The fountain of life, also associated with mysterious depths of consciousness. Here I shall make a link with the figure of Neptune from the Celtic pantheon above, again this maybe stretching the symbolism somewhat but there does seem to be some level of correlation. In that case Olokun could be seen as indirectly representing the Queen in our archetypal mandala. Interestingly Shango is almost drowned in the ocean according to one story from the Yoruban tradition, calling to mind the close relationship between the King and Queen in the Universal Mandala. http://www.8foldman.com/part1c.html
AND YES LALA's.....the buoy toll part is obviously transport to the ocean.

more>>>
http://tinyurl.com/2vnvhz (google search list)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 I was wondering when I found this stuff if Willie' may be Shango, although a true longshot...could be anyone on Earth really.

There is more and I will find it as soon as I hang out clothes and a couple other things. Be back in a bit w/ more.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Nut44x4 on September 02, 2007, 10:44:59 AM
Well....I guess I lied, lol. It must be catching. Guess I have Lieruba syndrome because I can't find 'more'. I think there was more.....but oh well. Anywho...here is the thread in the old LCD where I found my post.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1881.580

it is about 1/2 way down

If I find the other stuff I will post it later.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Nut44x4 on September 02, 2007, 10:57:15 AM
Oh....looky here. Not Willie Ramos related, but Shango word related yes.

answers mysterious lie within magical letters which spell sin XTC DNA

All know of the music beckoning lost souls to enter the seven levels of inferno who gave Mary the poison wine of Bacchus?

7th Level XTC Info:
http://www.nextron.ch/rave/xtcinfo.html

Remember Dave said in his book that the number 7 was significant....pg 213 3/4 of the way down...it is Dave's comment to shango. SM link=
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1876.msg248761#msg248761
see post 406 and 407


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Nut44x4 on September 02, 2007, 11:22:23 AM
copywrite © 2001-2007, Miguel Ramos   
http://ilarioba.tripod.com/media/thamesboy.htm link to Eleda.org at the bottom of article
Another news article on the above>>
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4426127,00.html


A dutch connection to Shango'  (in English)
http://www.bezinningscentrum.nl/teksten/wim_eng/oracle.htm
many other links at bottom

What is Shango?
http://www.magicalmiracles.com/shango.htm

Words on Bacchus
http://encyclopediaofauthentichinduism.org/articles/25_the_literature.htm

Shango
http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/mythology/shango_storm.html&edu=high

Shango.....Also known as CHANGO, XANGO
http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/african-mythology.php?deity=SHANGO


http://alocubano.com/shango.htm



You all may have many of these links. I found my folder and I am just posting some of what I have either found or saved from others. I have no way to tell you where exactly I came to acquire all of the above links. In other words... "I do not recall" (as in the words of PVDS, lol)




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on September 02, 2007, 11:58:18 AM
Thanks Nut.

Stom had a great idea a few posts back -- to try to revisit Shango is a new and different light -- a 'revision of beliefs'.

That is long overdue, imo.

The info you found and posted certainly afforded me the fodder to revise my beliefs :cool:

So thanks again.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Ree on September 02, 2007, 02:26:05 PM
copywrite © 2001-2007, Miguel Ramos   
http://ilarioba.tripod.com/media/thamesboy.htm link to Eleda.org at the bottom of article
Another news article on the above>>
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4426127,00.html


A dutch connection to Shango'  (in English)
http://www.bezinningscentrum.nl/teksten/wim_eng/oracle.htm
many other links at bottom

What is Shango?
http://www.magicalmiracles.com/shango.htm

Words on Bacchus
http://encyclopediaofauthentichinduism.org/articles/25_the_literature.htm

Shango
http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/mythology/shango_storm.html&edu=high

Shango.....Also known as CHANGO, XANGO
http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/african-mythology.php?deity=SHANGO


http://alocubano.com/shango.htm



You all may have many of these links. I found my folder and I am just posting some of what I have either found or saved from others. I have no way to tell you where exactly I came to acquire all of the above links. In other words... "I do not recall" (as in the words of PVDS, lol)




Did you see the Curacao connection is that dutch article on Shango?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on September 03, 2007, 10:16:15 PM
Not Shango/Simian but an interresting post from back in April 2006 on the front page of SM (the forum was down at the time):


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Loesge1.jpg)



7th level=7th floor?
Bob Smith, Mgr=delegate?
Inferno=Babylon (Shango was bound to the truth as it (the tower) burned-"Babylon is falling"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 04, 2007, 01:10:46 PM
Stom,

They actually posted up through July 30th, 2005.  This is the last post I have for Shango:

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:50 am
Always remember that what is unseen is greater than what is seen
All has been seen from afar
and whispered by olorum to an earthbound son
I must leave to feed the messengers
The gods are talking
Good Night


This is the last as Simian:

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The music man will lose to a lettuce at a spelling bee. Do not accuse the man of being special.
Posted Jun 30, 4:24 PM


Does anyone know if the above Shango post is from the Florida IP addy? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 04, 2007, 01:15:50 PM
Thanks Nut.

Stom had a great idea a few posts back -- to try to revisit Shango is a new and different light -- a 'revision of beliefs'.

That is long overdue, imo.

The info you found and posted certainly afforded me the fodder to revise my beliefs :cool:

So thanks again.


So what's the hold up?  I am waiting for the "new and different light" stuff.  I want to see it too.  Why don't you start Sharon, I bet you have some really good theories.  Come on guys, let's get it on.  :roll: :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 04, 2007, 01:17:54 PM
Oh....looky here. Not Willie Ramos related, but Shango word related yes.

answers mysterious lie within magical letters which spell sin XTC DNA

All know of the music beckoning lost souls to enter the seven levels of inferno who gave Mary the poison wine of Bacchus?

7th Level XTC Info:
http://www.nextron.ch/rave/xtcinfo.html

Remember Dave said in his book that the number 7 was significant....pg 213 3/4 of the way down...it is Dave's comment to shango. SM link=
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1876.msg248761#msg248761
see post 406 and 407


Would it be alright if you posted the excerpts that refer to the number 7?  There may be some that do not have access to Dave's book.  I don't think it would be a problem as long as you credit its source. TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: dennisintn on September 04, 2007, 04:57:35 PM

any word yet from paul reynolds, or any information about what he needs?
dennisintn


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on September 05, 2007, 01:30:57 AM
Stom,

They actually posted up through July 30th, 2005.  This is the last post I have for Shango:

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:50 am
Always remember that what is unseen is greater than what is seen
All has been seen from afar
and whispered by olorum to an earthbound son
I must leave to feed the messengers
The gods are talking
Good Night


This is the last as Simian:

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The music man will lose to a lettuce at a spelling bee. Do not accuse the man of being special.
Posted Jun 30, 4:24 PM


Does anyone know if the above Shango post is from the Florida IP addy? 

Coming from the same IP, from Florida but a different email addy.  Interresting too something I just noticed.  Another nickname using that same IP.  Robalo33, posting along side of Shango and the Simian doppledangler on June 28th starting at 1:28am through 2:22am.

Robalo33

Simian tu no hablo nada de veridad todavia, ‘ta siempre la misma vaina con usted cabron?

Jun 28, 2:22 AM

Robalo33

J’aime mieux passer les temps avec un femme comme vous Simian

Jun 28, 2:21 AM

Robalo33

what has simeon said that came out true?

Jun 28, 2:16 AM

Robalo33

also that simeon never typed anything when he was upset. i believe that is a simeon poser

Jun 28, 2:15 AM

Robalo33

someone wrote earlier the simeon was an austrolopithecus, which is an early man, not a monkey.

But simian. more of the stuff this shango says seems more real than your predictions.

Your predictions about the hague two days ago were wrong.
u were also wrong about the searchers finding natalee

Jun 28, 2:13 AM

Robalo33

The simian is wrong

The simian said the Hague was coming

The simian is an austrolopithecus

Jun 28, 2:10 AM

Robalo33

I have been watching this post for a few days now. This Shango does not seem to waver in his basic themes, but it seems like he is detatched.

I think he is a remote viewer. Not connected, but with a special eye.

Psychics do exist you know

A lot of what has been said makes a lot of sense. And if if this people are speaking in riddles, they are still providinf info to the masses.

just a thought

Jun 28, 1:58 AM



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on September 05, 2007, 08:04:19 AM
Thanks klaas! Great find!

So....maybe a 'shared' computer -- like in a college computer lab or the AHATA office??

And Robalo speaks French and Spanish.

btw -- robalo is spanish for a type of fish.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on September 05, 2007, 08:05:44 AM
Robalo is also a type of boat.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on September 05, 2007, 10:21:32 AM
Stom,

They actually posted up through July 30th, 2005.  This is the last post I have for Shango:

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:50 am
Always remember that what is unseen is greater than what is seen
All has been seen from afar
and whispered by olorum to an earthbound son
I must leave to feed the messengers
The gods are talking
Good Night


This is the last as Simian:

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The music man will lose to a lettuce at a spelling bee. Do not accuse the man of being special.
Posted Jun 30, 4:24 PM


Does anyone know if the above Shango post is from the Florida IP addy? 

Coming from the same IP, from Florida but a different email addy.  Interresting too something I just noticed.  Another nickname using that same IP.  Robalo33, posting along side of Shango and the Simian doppledangler on June 28th starting at 1:28am through 2:22am.

Robalo33

Simian tu no hablo nada de veridad todavia, ‘ta siempre la misma vaina con usted cabron?

Jun 28, 2:22 AM

Robalo33

J’aime mieux passer les temps avec un femme comme vous Simian

Jun 28, 2:21 AM

Robalo33

what has simeon said that came out true?

Jun 28, 2:16 AM

Robalo33

also that simeon never typed anything when he was upset. i believe that is a simeon poser

Jun 28, 2:15 AM

Robalo33

someone wrote earlier the simeon was an austrolopithecus, which is an early man, not a monkey.

But simian. more of the stuff this shango says seems more real than your predictions.

Your predictions about the hague two days ago were wrong.
u were also wrong about the searchers finding natalee

Jun 28, 2:13 AM

Robalo33

The simian is wrong

The simian said the Hague was coming

The simian is an austrolopithecus

Jun 28, 2:10 AM

Robalo33

I have been watching this post for a few days now. This Shango does not seem to waver in his basic themes, but it seems like he is detatched.

I think he is a remote viewer. Not connected, but with a special eye.

Psychics do exist you know

A lot of what has been said makes a lot of sense. And if if this people are speaking in riddles, they are still providinf info to the masses.

just a thought

Jun 28, 1:58 AM




Klaas,

Do you know if there were ever any other posts by Robalo33?  Any where he "tries to solve the riddle"?  I think Robalo33 and Shango may have been the same person.

Here's why:

At 11:48 pm on June 27 Shango uses the term austrolopithecus.  At 02:10 am on June 28 Robalo33 uses that very same term, yet does not attribute it to Shango.  He immediately posts again at 02:13 am to attribute the use of this term to (someone posting earlier)Shango.  This is not a well used term.  Is it likely that Robalo33 would have used that term so readily in a post that quickly?  I think these posts came from the same person posting as Shango.  In the second post Robalo33 also changes the spelling of Simian to Simeon.  I don't think that was accidental.


Also, I have used a translator and here is what I got from the two posts that were not in English:

J’aime mieux passer les temps avec un femme comme vous Simian

I like to better spend times with a woman like you Simian  from French to English



Simian tu no hablo nada de veridad todavia, ‘ta siempre la misma vaina con usted cabron?

Simian your I do not speak to anything of veridad todavia
ta always the same case with you cabron?
from Spanish to English

Simian you No hablo nada of veridad to davia, ` your siempre the misma vaina idiot usted buff-stick? from French to English

Robalo33 seems to enjoy insulting Simian much the way Shango does.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on September 05, 2007, 11:04:25 AM
TS - no other posts, just the ones above.  I agree Shango and Robalo33 are the same person. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 05, 2007, 11:25:49 AM
Thank you Klaas.  I knew you'd understand what I was asking.   :wink:

Now, let's think about this...same IP, different email addy. hmmmmm.  Suspected Simian was a doppelganger because of the way they phrased the sentence.  I know some don't think this to be true, but Shango knew Simian.  Simian knew Shango.  With computers and the internet, you are no longer required to be where you say you are.   Some thoughts to ponder:

Who were the messengers?
What was the code AllyinMiami used with Simian?
Did she also have a way of knowing about Shango?
Did the fake Simian ever say anything of value? 
Why did it matter to Shango if there was more than one Simian? 
Which posters from Aruba did Shango post with more often? 
Does Simian ever post angry?  (It's there, look for it.)
Why does Shango feel the need to post under a different nickname?
Does Simian ever get the chance to turn the tables on Shango?
Why is Simian so surprised that someone is impersonating him?

and last but not least....

Did Shango ever have a doppelganger that posted as Shango?? :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on September 05, 2007, 12:06:54 PM
Thank you Klaas.  I knew you'd understand what I was asking.   :wink:

Now, let's think about this...same IP, different email addy. hmmmmm.  Suspected Simian was a doppelganger because of the way they phrased the sentence.  I know some don't think this to be true, but Shango knew Simian.  Simian knew Shango.  With computers and the internet, you are no longer required to be where you say you are.   Some thoughts to ponder:

Who were the messengers?
What was the code AllyinMiami used with Simian?
Did she also have a way of knowing about Shango?
Did the fake Simian ever say anything of value? 
Why did it matter to Shango if there was more than one Simian? 
Which posters from Aruba did Shango post with more often? 
Does Simian ever post angry?  (It's there, look for it.)
Why does Shango feel the need to post under a different nickname?
Does Simian ever get the chance to turn the tables on Shango?
Why is Simian so surprised that someone is impersonating him?

and last but not least....

Did Shango ever have a doppelganger that posted as Shango?? :roll:

One thing to take note of, the posting on the front page of SM does not require you to put in a working email address, so you can make one up.  Just saying that a different email address doesn't really mean much.  Same IP, unless it's AOL does.

There were definately some Shango posers on other sites and I'll check later today if there were some at SM.  The IP (Florida) of Shango has 3 or 4 email addys and two nicknames attached to it on the front page of SM:  SHANGO & ROBALO33


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Ree on September 05, 2007, 01:09:15 PM
Thank you Klaas.  I knew you'd understand what I was asking.   :wink:

Now, let's think about this...same IP, different email addy. hmmmmm.  Suspected Simian was a doppelganger because of the way they phrased the sentence.  I know some don't think this to be true, but Shango knew Simian.  Simian knew Shango.  With computers and the internet, you are no longer required to be where you say you are.   Some thoughts to ponder:

Who were the messengers?
What was the code AllyinMiami used with Simian?
Did she also have a way of knowing about Shango?
Did the fake Simian ever say anything of value? 
Why did it matter to Shango if there was more than one Simian? 
Which posters from Aruba did Shango post with more often? 
Does Simian ever post angry?  (It's there, look for it.)
Why does Shango feel the need to post under a different nickname?
Does Simian ever get the chance to turn the tables on Shango?
Why is Simian so surprised that someone is impersonating him?

and last but not least....

Did Shango ever have a doppelganger that posted as Shango?? :roll:

One thing to take note of, the posting on the front page of SM does not require you to put in a working email address, so you can make one up.  Just saying that a different email address doesn't really mean much.  Same IP, unless it's AOL does.

There were definately some Shango posers on other sites and I'll check later today if there were some at SM.  The IP (Florida) of Shango has 3 or 4 email addys and two nicknames attached to it on the front page of SM:  SHANGO & ROBALO33

Klass, if the poster were posting from a site using a proxy server, would the same IP appear?  If Robalo is a boat is there a way to check boat registrations?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 05, 2007, 01:42:58 PM
One more question, please.  IP addy for the Espionage posts, please.  Also, were there any Merian doppelgangers?  When are we going to get the July archives or are they there and I can't find them? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on September 05, 2007, 03:36:11 PM
One more question, please.  IP addy for the Espionage posts, please.  Also, were there any Merian doppelgangers?  When are we going to get the July archives or are they there and I can't find them? TIA

Espionage was Netherlands.  I believe Merian posted at RWN didn't he/she?  If so I can't check it. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 05, 2007, 04:43:18 PM
One more question, please.  IP addy for the Espionage posts, please.  Also, were there any Merian doppelgangers?  When are we going to get the July archives or are they there and I can't find them? TIA

Espionage was Netherlands.  I believe Merian posted at RWN didn't he/she?  If so I can't check it. 

So how did we determine it was the same person that posted as Simian? I was under the impression that was determined to be accurate.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on September 05, 2007, 04:59:47 PM

I am up to reviewing Shango just as it is written.  If that leads to curruption in Aruba then just because it comes from Shango does not mean that curruption is fictional.  As a result of reading Shango and reviewing comments from official statements by those in Aruba I do believe Van Der Straten is involved in any cover up and may have actually directed some of the activities after the fact.  Some may call that corrupt...and I would be one of them.

I don't doubt there is corruption in Aruba.  But I believe the idea we have of Aruba and the operation of corruption within the island's social structure, is an out of focus vision obtained through the lines written by a couple of posters that meant to confuse the SM audience, because he&she thought it was the "patriotic" thing to do vis-à-vis the NH investigation...you know Arubans vs. Americans.

Quote
...to rule this out or to include it would be up to where the posts take us.  People should not arbitrarily assume that conditions such as these do not exist anywhere, because there is proof all over the world that this does happen.  If the posts lead there we cannot ignore it just because we don't like it.  Do you agree?
Yes, I agree in principle, but I also have to take into consideration the ultimate intention of the individual(s) that wrote the comments and the validity of their content.  My thing with Shango is not that I dislike him, but how much I consider his comments untrustworthy.  For the purpose of these discussions, I think they are worthless.



Quote
If you already have other interpretations in mind that let's do it.  (As long as those interpretations do not suggest that Beth had her child kidnapped or Natalee just simply ran away from her "terrible' life because that is not in Shango.[/i] .)
I have never considered this a possibility. The problem I have with all the Shango "sociological" implications and their discussions is precisely that is forces one to loose focus of the VdS's and whomever helped them, consciously or not.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on September 05, 2007, 05:19:39 PM
Presumably, Shango began posting June 26th, but I think he just evolved into that personality.  He had already begun to pick on the Simian much earlier. The Simian’s writing style was pretty straight forward and in the comments that appear below, a few not corresponding to his mode of communication, are included.  I believe the comments in red are Shango’s, because of the way they are written, because of Simian’s subtle rebuttals and open admission that there is a phony around.

I have lost track of those comments that over time have been identified as not Simian’s.  Sorry, if I am being repetitive.

Quote

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:49 pm
The phone call to the father was made at 4:00 in the morning. No wonder he was late for school.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:51 pm
Remember when they were pumping the pond by the Marriott? That is what they need to do in Montaña Noord.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:55 pm
The confrontation is going down. “You made me lie.” “You conspired against me.” “Coward.”

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:57 pm
The waters are low. The street are full. The night of Saint John. The fires will burn all around on the island. The smoke will clear tomorrow morning.

I’m leaving…

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:00 pm
born 2 be wild: The Simian use a Mac.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:01 pm
The battle is coming

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:02 pm
The end is near and bodies are washing upon the shore……………

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:05 pm
Don’t try and hack the Simian. We smoke Nederweed. Genetically enigineered.

No battle. The man on the inside will call soon. The confrontation will last all night. The boy’s arrogance will be his downfall.

I’m leaving now.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:06 pm
I ponder the evidence of sex and drugs with the father. It was to hard for her and she could not handle the pressure. I am done. I am leaving now…..

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:12 pm
A whiskered rat will pause in repose, and then drink a cup of gravy.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
Ally, alguien se esta pasando de impostor. Comprometiendo mi abilidad de darles informacion. Lo siento. No puedo dejarme al descubierto. Pasa la informacion a los demas.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:16 pm
The pottery need not break and yet the pack still may panic. I am leaving. I am done.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:22 pm
A thousand suns will pass….then maybe Born2Be will be allowed back on this site.

I am done.
[/color]



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on September 05, 2007, 05:31:33 PM

June 25th is the first time the term Babylonians was used in the FP discussions.  The word was used in what seem like a bona fide Simian comment, because it is written in a straightforward manner.  As is has been assumed, within the context of this comment, Babylonians means ALE.

On this day also, the Simian was being harassed by a fraud whose intention were to purposely confuse other posters.  I think here we also have fraudulent Simian comments by Shango (in red).


Quote
Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:54 pm
…unless the package from The Hague says that he is implicated. The evidence has him in a legal checkmate. He cannot deny.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:56 pm
…they boys met around the pool in Montaña.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:57 pm
Just got info the plane has arrived they are going to the courts

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:59 pm
The fires burned high and bright. Even Saint John denied he knew. The smoke will clear soon. The elder can’t deny. The son can’t talk. He is biting off his tongue. His sore and bloody tongue.

The hope rests on the cowboys finding their own.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 8:01 pm
The Simian is leaving. There’s a doppelganger.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 8:21 pm
The Simian knows the Babylonians. They need to plan the legal checkmate perfectly. They know that the elder knows his way around the palace. All gates need to be shut.

The Hindus don’t know that the elder knows what happened. The though they did the boy a favor by protecting him. The Hindus don’t know what happened.

The cowboys gave themselves 10 days. One down.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 8:37 pm
What does the music man know? He was seen. He was mentioned by the boy.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 8:41 pm
The boy is biting off his own tongue. The Babylonians are stunned. What possesses such a boy?
Most federales have left. The puzzle is nearly done. The one piece is missing. They need the cowboys help.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 8:57 pm
The Babylonians might release the Hindus.
The boy knows his father knows the way. He’s been inside the palace for many years. It has worked before. This time too much is at stake. This time there was someone there to hear the tree fall.
The music man is singing. The Simian can’t understand the words.
A bloody tongue is a bloody tongue. Swollen and thick. This boy is lost.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 9:16 pm
The new hammer and block could not island hop. The Babylonians can’t keep the gates shut forever. The days are 116 and they each have a number.
The Babylonians can’t use the whip on the boy. A elder is playing mute. If he doesn’t know, why did he heed the call?
The music man is singing. His song is not on the bill. One witness is not a witness.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 9:26 pm
The Babylonians gave free reign to the cowboys for a reason.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 9:32 pm
The Babylonians hands are not dirty.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 9:46 pm
The Hindus are not completely clean, but the Babylonians need them.
The are only so many halls in the palace. The gates are shutting down, but they need to be kept shut.
Checkmate is in place, but the game is not over yet.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 9:55 pm
Some alibis need to be broken.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:06 pm
There is whisperer on the line. The sword of Damocles will soon fall. I can’t say whose on the throne.
Did he think he could rule forever from his hideaway?
All along the gamblers knew who he was.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:14 pm
The Babylonians cared only for their gold and did not hear the Sumerians plot their demise. In the morning, at the point it was realized, it was too late.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:16 pm
Again, the Simian has a doppelganger.
Can’t compromise the whisperer on the line.
Signing off.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:28 pm
The Simian is sorry, but as long as there are impersonators there will be no more clues.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 05, 2007, 05:33:51 PM
Presumably, Shango began posting June 26th, but I think he just evolved into that personality.  He had already begun to pick on the Simian much earlier. The Simian’s writing style was pretty straight forward and in the comments that appear below, a few not corresponding to his mode of communication, are included.  I believe the comments in red are Shango’s, because of the way they are written, because of Simian’s subtle rebuttals and open admission that there is a phony around.

I have lost track of those comments that over time have been identified as not Simian’s.  Sorry, if I am being repetitive.

Quote

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:49 pm
The phone call to the father was made at 4:00 in the morning. No wonder he was late for school.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:51 pm
Remember when they were pumping the pond by the Marriott? That is what they need to do in Montaña Noord.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:55 pm
The confrontation is going down. “You made me lie.” “You conspired against me.” “Coward.”

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:57 pm
The waters are low. The street are full. The night of Saint John. The fires will burn all around on the island. The smoke will clear tomorrow morning.

I’m leaving…

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:00 pm
born 2 be wild: The Simian use a Mac.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:01 pm
The battle is coming

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:02 pm
The end is near and bodies are washing upon the shore……………

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:05 pm
Don’t try and hack the Simian. We smoke Nederweed. Genetically enigineered.

No battle. The man on the inside will call soon. The confrontation will last all night. The boy’s arrogance will be his downfall.

I’m leaving now.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:06 pm
I ponder the evidence of sex and drugs with the father. It was to hard for her and she could not handle the pressure. I am done. I am leaving now…..

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:12 pm
A whiskered rat will pause in repose, and then drink a cup of gravy.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
Ally, alguien se esta pasando de impostor. Comprometiendo mi abilidad de darles informacion. Lo siento. No puedo dejarme al descubierto. Pasa la informacion a los demas.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:16 pm
The pottery need not break and yet the pack still may panic. I am leaving. I am done.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:22 pm
A thousand suns will pass….then maybe Born2Be will be allowed back on this site.

I am done.
[/color]



I am sure Klaas would be happy to let us know if those posts in red originated from the Shango IP.  Let's ask her.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on September 05, 2007, 05:45:45 PM
Lala's - you mean you want to know if the Simian posts originated from the Shango IP?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on September 05, 2007, 05:55:26 PM
None of the Simian posts in red above are from Simian OR Shango.  They are all FAKES.  The first two the IP is Denver, Colorado.  The last three are blocked but could be (based upon the email addy used) from Florida but not even close to the IP that Shango always used.

So...all those in RED are SIMIAN imposters.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on September 05, 2007, 05:59:27 PM
One more question, please.  IP addy for the Espionage posts, please.  Also, were there any Merian doppelgangers?  When are we going to get the July archives or are they there and I can't find them? TIA

Espionage was Netherlands.  I believe Merian posted at RWN didn't he/she?  If so I can't check it. 
I might not be following...

Merian posted at SM on the codetalker's thread mostly, IIRC. I have those posts, Klaas. What do you need to find him? Post date and time?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Elaine on September 05, 2007, 06:00:46 PM
Thank you Klaas.  I knew you'd understand what I was asking.   :wink:

Now, let's think about this...same IP, different email addy. hmmmmm.  Suspected Simian was a doppelganger because of the way they phrased the sentence.  I know some don't think this to be true, but Shango knew Simian.  Simian knew Shango.  With computers and the internet, you are no longer required to be where you say you are.   Some thoughts to ponder:

Who were the messengers?
What was the code AllyinMiami used with Simian?
Did she also have a way of knowing about Shango?
Did the fake Simian ever say anything of value? 
Why did it matter to Shango if there was more than one Simian? 
Which posters from Aruba did Shango post with more often? 
Does Simian ever post angry?  (It's there, look for it.)
Why does Shango feel the need to post under a different nickname?
Does Simian ever get the chance to turn the tables on Shango?
Why is Simian so surprised that someone is impersonating him?

and last but not least....

Did Shango ever have a doppelganger that posted as Shango?? :roll:

One thing to take note of, the posting on the front page of SM does not require you to put in a working email address, so you can make one up.  Just saying that a different email address doesn't really mean much.  Same IP, unless it's AOL does.

There were definately some Shango posers on other sites and I'll check later today if there were some at SM.  The IP (Florida) of Shango has 3 or 4 email addys and two nicknames attached to it on the front page of SM:  SHANGO & ROBALO33
THat is very interesting.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on September 05, 2007, 06:02:15 PM
One more question, please.  IP addy for the Espionage posts, please.  Also, were there any Merian doppelgangers?  When are we going to get the July archives or are they there and I can't find them? TIA

Espionage was Netherlands.  I believe Merian posted at RWN didn't he/she?  If so I can't check it. 
I might not be following...

Merian posted at SM on the codetalker's thread mostly, IIRC. I have those posts, Klaas. What do you need to find him? Post date and time?

If she/he posted at SM in June 2005 I can find the posts and see the IP.  Just having the date/time isn't enough.  What was the date of the posts?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on September 05, 2007, 06:08:18 PM
One more question, please.  IP addy for the Espionage posts, please.  Also, were there any Merian doppelgangers?  When are we going to get the July archives or are they there and I can't find them? TIA

Espionage was Netherlands.  I believe Merian posted at RWN didn't he/she?  If so I can't check it. 
I might not be following...

Merian posted at SM on the codetalker's thread mostly, IIRC. I have those posts, Klaas. What do you need to find him? Post date and time?

If she/he posted at SM in June 2005 I can find the posts and see the IP.  Just having the date/time isn't enough.  What was the date of the posts?

First post I have:

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:30 am    Post subject: This yellowhammer has flown her own course   
The Babylonians' hands are tied. The owners of the hammer and the block will come down hard. The hours in the glass are 72.

The girl was carried by the Carib on a trip to the Canal. She was swept away on her own. So they seem to think.

The Picaros are too busy to pull off such a job. It is beyond there scope.

The one crowned with laurels has been turned inside and out. He even asked for forgiveness.

This yellowhammer has flown her own course.



Last post I have:

Merian Ernest Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:28 pm    Post subject: Dubbelspel   
Choose sides to avoid embarrassment.

The boy bit his tongue. For he is water as to the blood of the others. Ganga is hanging her head down.

The silent antennas have spoken of the forked tongues.

You see, the dogs found the grid. The cowboys should have unleashed them. That was a mistake. Gloat is the enemy of many brilliant men.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 05, 2007, 06:33:59 PM
Thank you Klaas. That is exactly what I wanted to know.  I appreciate all your help. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on September 05, 2007, 06:45:16 PM
VMS - those posts aren't in the current archive of old posts then.  I cannot research the IP's on those.

You're welcome Lala's


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on September 05, 2007, 06:51:23 PM
to 'Chata":     :wink:




Robalo:
http://www.oneternalpatrol.com/uss-robalo-273.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 05, 2007, 08:29:20 PM
I clearly remember when we first separated the Simian posts into real and fake ones.  Several of us commented on them and then someone said the real ones sounded similar to the Merian Ernest posts.  Klaas, didn't you tell us they were the same IP addresses??  I know I am not imagining this....does anyone else remember this?? :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JuJu on September 05, 2007, 08:51:19 PM
Klaas did say that Merian and Simian were the same IP


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Ree on September 05, 2007, 08:55:55 PM

June 25th is the first time the term Babylonians was used in the FP discussions.  The word was used in what seem like a bona fide Simian comment, because it is written in a straightforward manner.  As is has been assumed, within the context of this comment, Babylonians means ALE.

On this day also, the Simian was being harassed by a fraud whose intention were to purposely confuse other posters.  I think here we also have fraudulent Simian comments by Shango (in red).


Quote
Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:54 pm
…unless the package from The Hague says that he is implicated. The evidence has him in a legal checkmate. He cannot deny.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:56 pm
…they boys met around the pool in Montaña.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:57 pm
Just got info the plane has arrived they are going to the courts

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:59 pm
The fires burned high and bright. Even Saint John denied he knew. The smoke will clear soon. The elder can’t deny. The son can’t talk. He is biting off his tongue. His sore and bloody tongue.

The hope rests on the cowboys finding their own.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 8:01 pm
The Simian is leaving. There’s a doppelganger.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 8:21 pm
The Simian knows the Babylonians. They need to plan the legal checkmate perfectly. They know that the elder knows his way around the palace. All gates need to be shut.

The Hindus don’t know that the elder knows what happened. The though they did the boy a favor by protecting him. The Hindus don’t know what happened.

The cowboys gave themselves 10 days. One down.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 8:37 pm
What does the music man know? He was seen. He was mentioned by the boy.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 8:41 pm
The boy is biting off his own tongue. The Babylonians are stunned. What possesses such a boy?
Most federales have left. The puzzle is nearly done. The one piece is missing. They need the cowboys help.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 8:57 pm
The Babylonians might release the Hindus.
The boy knows his father knows the way. He’s been inside the palace for many years. It has worked before. This time too much is at stake. This time there was someone there to hear the tree fall.
The music man is singing. The Simian can’t understand the words.
A bloody tongue is a bloody tongue. Swollen and thick. This boy is lost.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 9:16 pm
The new hammer and block could not island hop. The Babylonians can’t keep the gates shut forever. The days are 116 and they each have a number.
The Babylonians can’t use the whip on the boy. A elder is playing mute. If he doesn’t know, why did he heed the call?
The music man is singing. His song is not on the bill. One witness is not a witness.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 9:26 pm
The Babylonians gave free reign to the cowboys for a reason.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 9:32 pm
The Babylonians hands are not dirty.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 9:46 pm
The Hindus are not completely clean, but the Babylonians need them.
The are only so many halls in the palace. The gates are shutting down, but they need to be kept shut.
Checkmate is in place, but the game is not over yet.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 9:55 pm
Some alibis need to be broken.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:06 pm
There is whisperer on the line. The sword of Damocles will soon fall. I can’t say whose on the throne.
Did he think he could rule forever from his hideaway?
All along the gamblers knew who he was.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:14 pm
The Babylonians cared only for their gold and did not hear the Sumerians plot their demise. In the morning, at the point it was realized, it was too late.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:16 pm
Again, the Simian has a doppelganger.
Can’t compromise the whisperer on the line.
Signing off.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:28 pm
The Simian is sorry, but as long as there are impersonators there will be no more clues.


Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:16 pm
Again, the Simian has a doppelganger.
Can’t compromise the whisperer on the line.
Signing off.

I am assuming the whisperer is Simian.  How would having an imposter compromise him?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MsVada on September 05, 2007, 09:15:21 PM
With computers and the internet, you are no longer required to be where you say you are.   Some thoughts to ponder:

Who were the messengers?
What was the code AllyinMiami used with Simian?


AllyinMiami always spoke spanish with Simian to verify he was the real Simian.  She did this on the codetalkers thread on more than one occasion.  I personally had a confrontation with her over there when I asked her how she knew whether Simian was real or a doppleganger. 

Ms.Vada


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 05, 2007, 09:58:38 PM
Klaas did say that Merian and Simian were the same IP

Thanks.  I was beginning to think I had traveled to another dimension in which things were not as they seem.   :wink:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on September 05, 2007, 10:08:35 PM
Klaas did say that Merian and Simian were the same IP
What I said was that Merian (RWV) and Simian (SM) were using the same email address.  I couldn't see Merian's IP at RWV.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 06, 2007, 12:47:20 AM
Thanks Klaas. I was trying to remember what it was. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tylergal on September 06, 2007, 02:17:03 AM
Robalo33

J’aime mieux passer les temps avec un femme comme vous Simian

Is Robala saying that Simian is a woman, "I would love to spend my time in a better way with a woman like you, Simian...." :2doh:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tylergal on September 06, 2007, 02:22:06 AM
Regards the key, I was reading something from the Birmingham paper on June 15 and it implies the chief of police cannot find the key (and I could never discern what the writer meant) about the chief of police could not find the key but he was referring to being on Aruba on that fateful night 6/10/05 and 6/11/05 and the chief was going to give a press conference and there were millions of reporters, press people, media, etc., but the Chief could not find the key.  He never stated what key he was talking about, it was more of trying to get atmosphere into the article than anything else but "the key" and the "chief of police" caught my eye.  I read and read and still no clue about the "key."


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on September 06, 2007, 08:50:50 AM
None of the Simian posts in red above are from Simian OR Shango.  They are all FAKES.  The first two the IP is Denver, Colorado.  The last three are blocked but could be (based upon the email addy used) from Florida but not even close to the IP that Shango always used.

So...all those in RED are SIMIAN imposters.

Klassend,

I think the indicated comments were written by Shango, because they were written in a "literary" manner that Shango assumed subsequently.  A different IP doesn't exclude Shango posting as Simian.  It just means that the comment came from elsewhere, other than the predominant Florida IP address.

Thank you for your confirmation of the fraudulent comments.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on September 06, 2007, 08:57:12 AM
Shango’s mockery began on June 25th , by rephrasing Simian terminologies, or alluding to the Simian's thematic.

First, Shango referred to Babylonian/Babylon as a fake (in red), and as of June 26th, as himself.  Either way, the context within which Shango used the term is totally divorced from the Simian’s meaning.


Quote
Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:14 pm
The Babylonians cared only for their gold and did not hear the Sumerians plot their demise. In the morning, at the point it was realized, it was too late.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian…

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians do not like the Babylonian intrusion.
The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Simian, why was the key from the Babylons Palace not used to open the Sumerians Door ?
They have become famished and Eden is beckoning….


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:43 pm
The fallen judge agreed to sing because he can hum any tune
He needs to sing for his son, or see the end of his babylonian offspring


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:40 pm
The key does not exist
The Arawaks knew Babylonian involvement would prove futile
That is why the cowboys left the fort and a searching with the indians

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:43 pm
The fallen judge agreed to sing because he can hum any tune
He needs to sing for his son, or see the end of his babylonian offspring

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on September 06, 2007, 09:04:53 AM
Shango purposely used the term DirtyHands contrary to the Simian’s statement, because at this point in time, the objective was most likely to discredit the Simian.  The Shango partners were probably angry at the Simian for giving information about the case and Aruba, and they set out to confuse information seekers.

Below, the posts where the Simian and Shango first used "hands" and "dirty":


Quote
Simian on June 25th, 2005 9:32 pm
The Babylonians hands are not dirty.

Quote
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.
Many teepees fall. No Wampum.
Cowboys eat Sacrifice. Arawaks eat sacrifice.
Dirty hand stays hidden, but all are well-fed.
Cowboys happy, but unrest in the halls of the palace
Babylon owes the Arawaks!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on September 06, 2007, 09:09:42 AM
On June 26th, Shango impersonates Simian(in red) once more and makes a point of telling the latter that he has done so:


Quote
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:27 pm
The cowboys have only so much gold. The territory is rough. There are many secrets, but the Arawaks are helping.

The palace is open to all, but the palace is a maze to most.


Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:04 pm
The wire has been shaken. The bird has left.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:10 pm

The system is built so that innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:11 pm
The system is built so that the innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm

Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:14 pm
Simian your Dopple has resumed position
Bird on the wire



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on September 06, 2007, 10:38:36 AM
Stom,

You said: Shango’s mockery began on June 25th , by rephrasing Simian terminologies, or alluding to the Simian's thematic.

First, Shango referred to Babylonian/Babylon as a fake (in red), and as of June 26th, as himself.  Either way, the context within which Shango used the term is totally divorced from the Simian’s meaning.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:14 pm
The Babylonians cared only for their gold and did not hear the Sumerians plot their demise. In the morning, at the point it was realized, it was too late.

I do not read this as Shango/Simian referring to Babylonian/Babylon as a fake.  I see this as Shango/Simian indicating that the interests of Babylonians/Babylon is only in wealth.  They are more concerned about the tourist trade and the negative impact that would affect their investments.  I think this is where we see the internal struggle that goes on in Aruba between the ‘ruling class’ and the rest of the people.  I believe Sumerians refers to the same group that is referred to as Arawaks.  Many believe Shango was referring to the natives on Aruba.  Could be, but I would add that Arawaks could also be not just island natives but the ‘non-ruling class’ who are not closely connected to political parties and large business.  Basically, your regular working class people. (this is not unique to Aruba, this goes on everywhere)  I believe ALE has many Arawaks/Sumerians. 

This is the last post I find where the term Sumerian(s) is used.  From then on the term Arawak was used by both posters.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Simian, why was the key from the Babylons Palace not used to open the Sumerians Door ?
They have become famished and Eden is beckoning….  

As far as the remaining posts, I do not see Shango calling anyone fake.  I do see him identifying a problem between Babylonians and Sumerians, (also called Arawaks).  These posts say to me that the people in Aruba do not have confidence in the ruling class, those making the decisions.

Maybe I have misunderstood what you meant by ‘fake’.   If so, please enlighten me as to what you intended for us to see.

Also, since you say Shango/Simian’s use of the term is divvorced from Simian’s meaning, what so you believe Simian’s meaning actually was?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on September 06, 2007, 11:38:40 AM
On June 26th, Shango impersonates Simian(in red) once more and makes a point of telling the latter that he has done so:


Quote
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:27 pm
The cowboys have only so much gold. The territory is rough. There are many secrets, but the Arawaks are helping.

The palace is open to all, but the palace is a maze to most.


Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:04 pm
The wire has been shaken. The bird has left.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:10 pm

The system is built so that innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:11 pm
The system is built so that the innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm

Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:14 pm
Simian your Dopple has resumed position
Bird on the wire


The post in red has been identified as coming from the real Simian, not an imposter or Shango.  In fact, all of the Simian posts between June 26th, 2005 at 3:27 pm and June 26th, 2005 4:14 pm have been identified as the real Simian.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on September 06, 2007, 11:44:49 AM
Since a post from June 25th has been introduced here I thought it would be prudent to review the discussion of that day on that thread.  It's about the cars and evidence in the cars.

Checkme on June 25th, 2005 6:53 pm
fluids were found in the karpoe’s honda

Checkme on June 25th, 2005 6:55 pm
1. Karpoes car
2. vdS Jeep
3. vdS family car

Simian on June 25th, 2005 6:57 pm
The phone call made in the small hours.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:28 pm
The father is trapped in a legal check mate.
The boy is mutilating his own tongue. He doesn’t want to let the old man down.

edie on June 25th, 2005 7:29 pm
Someone said her body fluids, but I think they have said it was not blood

Peter on June 25th, 2005 7:34 pm
That would mean she was in the car, AND co-operative. We already know she was in the car. Doesn’t really help much, or am I missing something??

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:36 pm
In the other car.


Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:41 pm
Kalpoes went home. Joran stayed behind. Somebody had to come get him.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:50 pm
Only one piece is missing.
Around the pool the Hindus were told what to say. They did not know why. They were asked to protect the boy. The father was not there, but he knew what to do.
The Hindus thought the girl would reappear.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:54 pm
…unless the package from The Hague says that he is implicated. The evidence has him in a legal checkmate. He cannot deny.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:57 pm
Just got info the plane has arrived they are going to the courts (not the real Simian)

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:59 pm
The fires burned high and bright. Even Saint John denied he knew. The smoke will clear soon. The elder can’t deny. The son can’t talk. He is biting off his tongue. His sore and bloody tongue.
The hope rests on the cowboys finding their own.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 8:01 pm
The Simian is leaving. There’s a doppelganger.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on September 06, 2007, 12:02:34 PM
IMO - if I had a choice in believing one or the other, either Simian or Shango, I would pick Simian. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on September 06, 2007, 12:14:56 PM
I think from the perspective of Simian telling people what was happening inside the investigation, I agree with you Klaas.  But, I do think Simian lost his contact, "bird on a wire", and there is no way to tell, even if he had a contact inside the investigation, why they were unable to get to the truth.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on September 06, 2007, 12:36:36 PM
Klaas,

Can you tell if this post was from the real Simian?  It was not highlighted in red in Stom's post.  I do not see it in the Real Simian thread.  Can you tell if the IP address or email addy matches and of the Shango posts?  It doesn't really sound like Shango.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:06 pm
I ponder the evidence of sex and drugs with the father. It was to hard for her and she could not handle the pressure. I am done. I am leaving now…..



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on September 06, 2007, 12:52:08 PM
Klaas,

Can you tell if this post was from the real Simian?  It was not highlighted in red in Stom's post.  I do not see it in the Real Simian thread.  Can you tell if the IP address or email addy matches and of the Shango posts?  It doesn't really sound like Shango.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:06 pm
I ponder the evidence of sex and drugs with the father. It was to hard for her and she could not handle the pressure. I am done. I am leaving now…..



FAKE - IP from Denver and a different email addy than the "real" Simian always used.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on September 06, 2007, 02:21:14 PM
From the real Simian:

 Name: Simian | Posted Jun 30, 11:01 AM
The Simian got friggin’ tired. I.e. the Simian never mentioned any Sumerians. What does that mean? By the way, in Caribbean slang the “Babylon” is the Police.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tylergal on September 06, 2007, 02:59:02 PM
I have been saying that for more than 2 years that in Caribbean the police are referred to as Babylonians, and do you think anyone ever acknowledged that?  Glad you noticed.   :2doh:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on September 06, 2007, 03:20:46 PM
Hi Tylergal!


Just a few excerpts............


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=babylon

1. Babylon 
 
Used to indicate a strong and powerful, yet corrupted and immoral place. A city in bible propecy. Some believe it may be the future fate of the United States. Prophecies:

2. babylon 

The state, the system, particularly when corrupt or authoritarian. Also the police, as they are the agents of the threat of force that the state derives it's power from.


3. babylon 
 
A term originating from Jamaica to describe the police


7. Babylon 
 
Word used by Jamaicans to discribe the pOlice
Or by others as indication of the corrupt legal system reps

Them babylon mon!
The dogs of Babylon!




http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=babylonians

1. babylonians 
 
see babylons, ~> a whole mountain range of breasts

"i'd love to stroll accross her babylonians"


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=babylons

3. babylons   
The police.

Dem babylons be after m'ganja!

 


 


 

 


 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on September 06, 2007, 03:25:52 PM
I have been saying that for more than 2 years that in Caribbean the police are referred to as Babylonians, and do you think anyone ever acknowledged that?  Glad you noticed.   :2doh:

Huh? This was discussed in depth on the codetalker's thread.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on September 06, 2007, 03:28:39 PM
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Beto


And let's not forget that 'Beto' is Jamie C's 'nic name'.

I know -- this is the wrong thread.

Maybe we should have a thread with all the references from the urban/caribbean dictionary that appear in the j2k statements.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on September 07, 2007, 12:48:51 PM
Stom,

You said: Shango’s mockery began on June 25th , by rephrasing Simian terminologies, or alluding to the Simian's thematic.

First, Shango referred to Babylonian/Babylon as a fake (in red), and as of June 26th, as himself.  Either way, the context within which Shango used the term is totally divorced from the Simian’s meaning.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:14 pm
The Babylonians cared only for their gold and did not hear the Sumerians plot their demise. In the morning, at the point it was realized, it was too late.

I do not read this as Shango/Simian referring to Babylonian/Babylon as a fake.  I see this as Shango/Simian indicating that the interests of Babylonians/Babylon is only in wealth.  They are more concerned about the tourist trade and the negative impact that would affect their investments.  I think this is where we see the internal struggle that goes on in Aruba between the ‘ruling class’ and the rest of the people.  I believe Sumerians refers to the same group that is referred to as Arawaks.  Many believe Shango was referring to the natives on Aruba.  Could be, but I would add that Arawaks could also be not just island natives but the ‘non-ruling class’ who are not closely connected to political parties and large business.  Basically, your regular working class people. (this is not unique to Aruba, this goes on everywhere)  I believe ALE has many Arawaks/Sumerians. 

This is the last post I find where the term Sumerian(s) is used.  From then on the term Arawak was used by both posters.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Simian, why was the key from the Babylons Palace not used to open the Sumerians Door ?
They have become famished and Eden is beckoning….  

As far as the remaining posts, I do not see Shango calling anyone fake.  I do see him identifying a problem between Babylonians and Sumerians, (also called Arawaks).  These posts say to me that the people in Aruba do not have confidence in the ruling class, those making the decisions.

Maybe I have misunderstood what you meant by ‘fake’.   If so, please enlighten me as to what you intended for us to see.

Also, since you say Shango/Simian’s use of the term is divvorced from Simian’s meaning, what so you believe Simian’s meaning actually was?


From the real Simian:

 Name: Simian | Posted Jun 30, 11:01 AM
The Simian got friggin’ tired. I.e. the Simian never mentioned any Sumerians. What does that mean? By the way, in Caribbean slang the “Babylon” is the Police.

The post above, which you quoted after the one I am replying to, indicates that the Simian never wrote the comment in red, above.  I think whomever Shango is wrote it, therefore Shango used the term Babylonian as a "fake Simian" before he became Shango himself.

Simian uses the term Babylonian to consistently mean ALE, as you clearly state, but not Shango.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on September 07, 2007, 01:57:12 PM
I think we agree.  This post was not from the real Simain and could have been Shango before he began using the nickname of Shango.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:14 pm
The Babylonians cared only for their gold and did not hear the Sumerians plot their demise. In the morning, at the point it was realized, it was too late.

This post, however, did come from Simian and was not a mocking post made by Shango.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:27 pm
The cowboys have only so much gold. The territory is rough. There are many secrets, but the Arawaks are helping.

The palace is open to all, but the palace is a maze to most.

Since we can agree that Shango was out there posting even before we knew of him, does that necessarily mean that Shango was mocking Simian because he did not like Simian posting the information from ALE?  I don't know.  I think Shango broadened the definition of Babylon/Babylonian for whatever reason.  You could be right, but it's hard to tell.  Since I don't know the basics of the Aruban society it is difficult for me to determine which poster may have actually known something more than was being publicized.  I think we agree that Simian was communicating with someone close to the investigation.  Shango, on the other hand, never makes a claim to be close to anyone in Aruba.  Yet, does that mean he did not have information?

As Shango said:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:48 pm
The simplicity of Occams Razor is often outweighed by the complexity of maintaining factors in an elemental state




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on September 11, 2007, 05:32:09 PM
This post, however, did come from Simian and was not a mocking post made by Shango.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:27 pm
The cowboys have only so much gold. The territory is rough. There are many secrets, but the Arawaks are helping.

The palace is open to all, but the palace is a maze to most.
Correction noted.  I assume you have already verified through Klaasend that this is a valid comment
Quote
Since we can agree that Shango was out there posting even before we knew of him, does that necessarily mean that Shango was mocking Simian because he did not like Simian posting the information from ALE?  I don't know.  I think Shango broadened the definition of Babylon/Babylonian for whatever reason.  You could be right, but it's hard to tell.  Since I don't know the basics of the Aruban society it is difficult for me to determine which poster may have actually known something more than was being publicized.  I think we agree that Simian was communicating with someone close to the investigation.  Shango, on the other hand, never makes a claim to be close to anyone in Aruba.  Yet, does that mean he did not have information?
The possibility that he/she/they was/were posting before we knew of him/her/them as Shango does not imply that he was he was mocking Simian, but the possibility that he became a fake Simian to use the latter’s terminologies to write comments contrary to the original, in indicative of an intent to mock and ridicule.  In the very least is indicative of wanting to have some fun.

If Shango mutated and as that personality used Babylonian to mean Dutch, Paulus, Joran, and introduced concepts such as Babylonian Palace, Babylonian card, House of Babylon, Babylonian wind, Babylonian trade, Babylon interference; and describes Babylonians that live in teepees wanting to maintain the integrity of the Great House, while Babylon will have to pay the price because the gods know that the Babylonians are to blame…doesn’t this seem too much to you?  Doesn’t this just seem senseless?  Doesn’t this just seem as “orchested” as the gods of Babylon have orchested the refrain for the Arawak choir?

I believe Shango first impersonated the Simian, picked on and mocked him, insistently addressed him and paraphrased him in an antagonistic manner.  He then developed his comments free-style, as reactions were posted.  He reinforced and further aroused people’s fascination for experiencing the mysterious and even, the occult. 

Shango didn’t have any validity and he never conveyed any meaningful message.  His/Her/Their message meanings are a collection of conjectures posted by forum and blog constructionists and a repetition effect.

I don’t doubt Shango knows a lot of people in Aruba.  Shango is/are from Aruba or live/lives in Aruba.  If they posted from Florida, it just means they were there visiting.  I think if we go back to threads before 1190, we can find posters that express scorn for the Simian, mock him and express themselves just like Robalo33.  Maybe they are Shango’s predecessors.

Quote
As Shango said:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:48 pm
The simplicity of Occams Razor is often outweighed by the complexity of maintaining factors in an elemental state

Shango is showing off...Ockham's razor is precisely about maintaing entities in an elemental state, and he is in fact the antithesis of the law of succinctness...he does multiply entities beyond necessity.  So why does he preach, if he is no tenet of reductionism, but one with a propensity to complicate.  He is not a razor, and therefore does not cut away metaphorical concepts. 

So following "the simplicity of Occam's Razor", we should cut out all the features of the Shango theory that are not observable.  What do we have left?  Nothing!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on September 12, 2007, 03:24:38 PM
Stom wrote:
If Shango mutated and as that personality used Babylonian to mean Dutch, Paulus, Joran, and introduced concepts such as Babylonian Palace, Babylonian card, House of Babylon, Babylonian wind, Babylonian trade, Babylon interference; and describes Babylonians that live in teepees wanting to maintain the integrity of the Great House, while Babylon will have to pay the price because the gods know that the Babylonians are to blame…doesn’t this seem too much to you?  Doesn’t this just seem senseless?  Doesn’t this just seem as “orchested” as the gods of Babylon have orchested the refrain for the Arawak choir?

Whether it is senseless may only be determined if the truth comes out.  If we eventually find out that it was not an elaborate cover up, but simply an accidental death that was poorly investigated, then I would have to say Shango was full of it.  But...we still do not have answers so I cannot concede anything at this point.

As far as Shango using Simain's term Babylon/Babylonian you could only make an argument for Shango reinventing the definition to encompass all who have some level of authority.  Simian says 'police', Shango seems to include more than just police.  Now, do I find this senseless?  I don't know yet.  Like I said, no answers, no concession.  Shango paints a picture of a ruling class that has a stranglehold on all others.  He seems to imply that many on the island don't like it but they accept these conditions in order to stay on Aruba.  I don't find that concept completely ridiculous and do understand how this could happen.

Also, when you consider the history of Babylon/Babylonians it does seem to indicate the Dutch in Aruba more than anything else.  Shango originally used the term Sumerians who were overtaken and eventually ruled by the Babylonians.  The Sumerians were very prosperous on their own and did not need the Babylonians in order to survive.  Simain, on the other hand, chose the term Arawaks which I believe to mean the earlier inhabitants of Aruba.  Those who settled there long before the Dutch arrived.  Shango eventually abandoned the term Sumerians and began using the term Arawaks.  One could draw similarities here as I think Shango did.  Was there a purpose as it relates to Natalee?  Neither you or I know for certain.

When you step away from Simian and Shango and try to answer the obvious questions you will often come to one of two conclusions:

1.Natalee died accidentally.  The problem with that conclusion is that it does not seem rational based on the lies that started from the very beginning.  If she died accidentally, even if Joran & Co. were in a panic, they could have and should have just told the truth after the first story was proven to be a lie.  But they continued to lie and implicate each other.  Why do that if you can garner sympathy and claim she had consensual sex and took drugs on her own?  (It's not like she could say differently.)  If that were the case and they hid the body I doubt the penalty for a Dutch kid in Aruba would be very stiff for disposing of a body.

or

2.One or more people were involved in the death of Natalee.  Now, given all the lies told by Joran and possibly by the Kalpoes leaves a lot to the imagination.  One thing is very clear...ALE has clearly stated that Natalee is not alive.  Van Der Straten, Dompig, Richardson.  Even Karin Jansen was having people arrested on charges of premeditated murder, heavy battery, kidnapping, etc.  Why?  This is the type of thing that became fodder for the bloggers.  Why do all that if there is a chance that she ran away or was taken off the island by her own family.  It makes no sense unless they had sufficient information that led to the conclusion that Natalee was dead.  This is what has ignited the cries of "cover-up". 

Do Simian and/or Shango know more about this?  Possibly.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on September 17, 2007, 07:55:11 PM
re- O.J. Simpson:

http://**/news/9827732.html
excerpt: "One of the first things Las Vegas police did after the incident was view the surveillance tapes at Palace Station."

Simian: "the palace is open to all, but the palace is a maze to most"

Shango: "if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand."

here is the card game he references:
-Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.
-Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?
-The Arawaks may not need to play the singing card
-The maze of Babylon is very difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent

Shango: "Threadsurfers are opening a window overlooking babylon" [DirtyHand]

The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it (judge? when was PVDS ever a judge? A clue......)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Chester on September 20, 2007, 04:13:34 PM
Well, Shango/Simian knows how to dupe people, that's for sure.

There rantings belong with the Bacchus and Charles Croes stuff.

If they knew something they would tell.  They don't know anything so they play these little pointless riddling games.

Frankly I would like to see board devoted to Shango and the Med Jet conspiracy theory, both of which are equally full of B.S. in my opinion.

The Arawaks?  Give me a break.  Bad science fiction, nothing more.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: distortion on September 20, 2007, 05:22:12 PM
Well, Shango/Simian knows how to dupe people, that's for sure.

There rantings belong with the Bacchus and Charles Croes stuff.

If they knew something they would tell.  They don't know anything so they play these little pointless riddling games.

Frankly I would like to see board devoted to Shango and the Med Jet conspiracy theory, both of which are equally full of B.S. in my opinion.

The Arawaks?  Give me a break.  Bad science fiction, nothing more.

On the mainland of South America there are some 2,450 (1980 census) Arawaks living in Venezuela, Guyana, Suriname, and French Guyana with 2,051 in Suriname. The Caribs on mainland South America number 10,225 (2000 WCD) in Venezuela, Guyana, Suriname, and French Guyana. The majority of the populations of Puerto Rico and Aruba are descended in part from the Arawaks.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 21, 2007, 11:18:34 AM
Well, Shango/Simian knows how to dupe people, that's for sure.

There rantings belong with the Bacchus and Charles Croes stuff.

If they knew something they would tell.  They don't know anything so they play these little pointless riddling games.

Frankly I would like to see board devoted to Shango and the Med Jet conspiracy theory, both of which are equally full of B.S. in my opinion.

The Arawaks?  Give me a break.  Bad science fiction, nothing more.


My dear Chester, this IS the Shango thread.  The Med Jet conspiracy is ridiculous if you are trying to make it sound as if they secreted Natalee off the island via med jet.  Actually, these two things are not even related.  And what about the Arawaks?  Depends on what you think they are...ALE or Native Islanders.  Different meanings depending on the was they are used.  Same with Babylonians.  No one has ever said they were not trying to distract things, Shango in one direction and Simian in the other.  Could you elaborate a bit more on the Bacchus and CC part, I am confused as to what you mean. TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: San on September 21, 2007, 11:38:25 AM
Well, Shango/Simian knows how to dupe people, that's for sure.

There rantings belong with the Bacchus and Charles Croes stuff.

If they knew something they would tell.  They don't know anything so they play these little pointless riddling games.

Frankly I would like to see board devoted to Shango and the Med Jet conspiracy theory, both of which are equally full of B.S. in my opinion.

The Arawaks?  Give me a break.  Bad science fiction, nothing more.


My dear Chester, this IS the Shango thread.  The Med Jet conspiracy is ridiculous if you are trying to make it sound as if they secreted Natalee off the island via med jet.  Actually, these two things are not even related.  And what about the Arawaks?  Depends on what you think they are...ALE or Native Islanders.  Different meanings depending on the was they are used.  Same with Babylonians.  No one has ever said they were not trying to distract things, Shango in one direction and Simian in the other.  Could you elaborate a bit more on the Bacchus and CC part, I am confused as to what you mean. TIA

Chester if you think Simian and Shango are nothing but BS there are other threads to read on the forum.

I find it particularly interesting out of all the threads on this forum you chose this one to make your first public appearance.

People are free to discuss Shango and Simian all they want on this thread and also in the Musings thread.

Are you saying Bacus and CCroes are full of shit with their statements.  I too would like you to elaborate.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Chester on September 21, 2007, 05:31:12 PM
Here is the famous Charles Croes statement.

It's complete piffle, in my opinion, dressed up to sound significant but completely devoid of  meaning.

There are issues in this case that can go beyond the obvious in their implications.It will take time for all the information regarding this lovely child to come out. Some of it will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected. With regards to the family of this missing child, my prayers are with you.I was with them on the first night they arrived to ARuba (looking for their daughter) from midnight until 5:30 AM and have kept in touch. In my opinion, this issue has far reaching implications for all those involved.I wish all of us strength

charles

"Issues that can go beyond the obvious in their implications...Some will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected."

Christmas!

Mr. Bacchus's exact statement eludes me but it was similar generalized garbage that means nothing.

If someone knows something they will say what they know and not doll it up with a bunch of meaningless psuedo-significant poetic garbage.

If Shango or Croes know something, they can spit it out.  They have chosen not to.  So my conclusion is that they know nothing.






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on September 21, 2007, 05:55:06 PM
 :lol:

piffle

 :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on September 21, 2007, 06:26:03 PM
Here is the famous Charles Croes statement.

It's complete piffle, in my opinion, dressed up to sound significant but completely devoid of  meaning.

There are issues in this case that can go beyond the obvious in their implications.It will take time for all the information regarding this lovely child to come out. Some of it will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected. With regards to the family of this missing child, my prayers are with you.I was with them on the first night they arrived to ARuba (looking for their daughter) from midnight until 5:30 AM and have kept in touch. In my opinion, this issue has far reaching implications for all those involved.I wish all of us strength

charles

"Issues that can go beyond the obvious in their implications...Some will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected."

Christmas!

Mr. Bacchus's exact statement eludes me but it was similar generalized garbage that means nothing.

If someone knows something they will say what they know and not doll it up with a bunch of meaningless psuedo-significant poetic garbage.

If Shango or Croes know something, they can spit it out.  They have chosen not to.  So my conclusion is that they know nothing.






And again....your point being??


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: San on September 21, 2007, 07:03:11 PM
Here is the famous Charles Croes statement.

It's complete piffle, in my opinion, dressed up to sound significant but completely devoid of  meaning.

There are issues in this case that can go beyond the obvious in their implications.It will take time for all the information regarding this lovely child to come out. Some of it will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected. With regards to the family of this missing child, my prayers are with you.I was with them on the first night they arrived to ARuba (looking for their daughter) from midnight until 5:30 AM and have kept in touch. In my opinion, this issue has far reaching implications for all those involved.I wish all of us strength

charles

"Issues that can go beyond the obvious in their implications...Some will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected."

Christmas!

Mr. Bacchus's exact statement eludes me but it was similar generalized garbage that means nothing.

If someone knows something they will say what they know and not doll it up with a bunch of meaningless psuedo-significant poetic garbage.

If Shango or Croes know something, they can spit it out.  They have chosen not to.  So my conclusion is that they know nothing.

Shango might have known something.  If I lived in Aruba I would be afraid to reveal exactly what I knew due to fear of being killed Aruba style.

We may never know what Charles Croes meant by his statement.  But I would have to think he knew something because even Jug Twitty said Charles Croes can put the pieces together like a puzzle or something like that.

Senator Baccus' statement said this is not a teen that just ran away.  I think he knew more.

For me personally I would not reveal one word of what I know and make it public knowledge.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on September 22, 2007, 07:17:05 PM
Exposing the truth publically may be the best form of protection


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: San on September 22, 2007, 08:20:42 PM
Exposing the truth publically may be the best form of protection


It might be the best form of protection for people like the Kalpoes.  For people like Beth I would not reveal everything I know just yet.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: nuntukamen on September 28, 2007, 05:55:16 PM
Here is the famous Charles Croes statement.

It's complete piffle, in my opinion, dressed up to sound significant but completely devoid of  meaning.

There are issues in this case that can go beyond the obvious in their implications.It will take time for all the information regarding this lovely child to come out. Some of it will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected. With regards to the family of this missing child, my prayers are with you.I was with them on the first night they arrived to ARuba (looking for their daughter) from midnight until 5:30 AM and have kept in touch. In my opinion, this issue has far reaching implications for all those involved.I wish all of us strength

charles

"Issues that can go beyond the obvious in their implications...Some will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected."

Christmas!

Mr. Bacchus's exact statement eludes me but it was similar generalized garbage that means nothing.

If someone knows something they will say what they know and not doll it up with a bunch of meaningless psuedo-significant poetic garbage.

If Shango or Croes know something, they can spit it out.  They have chosen not to.  So my conclusion is that they know nothing.








political ramifications of small island living might alter your big city formula of determining b.s.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: steve on October 12, 2007, 01:16:26 PM
Does Shango mention a gate or a key?

Ayo rock formations/Casibari

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff3/miami-steve/8aba303c.jpg)

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff3/miami-steve/b958fa2e.jpg)
The rock looks like King Kong....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 12, 2007, 10:02:39 PM
Does Shango mention a gate or a key?

Ayo rock formations/Casibari

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff3/miami-steve/8aba303c.jpg)

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff3/miami-steve/b958fa2e.jpg)
The rock looks like King Kong....


What is behind that gate?  Can you go inside as in some type of cave? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: steve on October 13, 2007, 09:02:20 AM
It's a tourist stop
To view the huge boulders and view of Aruba
It's just north of Hooiberg

It has been described as a maze/network of "paved roads
that are off an unpaved road"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayo_Rock_Formations

I'm wondering if someone had a key to this locked gate at night


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: steve on October 13, 2007, 10:19:21 AM
To tie this area in with the am phone call from Santa Lucia-

Donkey Santuary-in Santa Lucia
Between Ayo rocks and northcoast (Nat'l Bridge, Boca Mahos)

Directions: Take highway 6-A towards Ayo Rock Formations
and follow the "green apple" signs.
Website: www.arubadonkey.org

Santa Lucia:
Ayo Rock Formations
Rancho del Campo
Rancho Daimari
Donkey Sanctuary


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: steve on October 13, 2007, 10:24:00 AM

What is behind that gate?  Can you go inside as in some type of cave? 

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff3/miami-steve/bc274330.jpg)
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff3/miami-steve/e9cd82cd.gif)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 13, 2007, 11:37:44 AM
It's a tourist stop
To view the huge boulders and view of Aruba
It's just north of Hooiberg

It has been described as a maze/network of "paved roads
that are off an unpaved road"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayo_Rock_Formations

I'm wondering if someone had a key to this locked gate at night

I suppose you could say this area fits to some degree but we must look at exactly wht Shango has said:

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:41 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post
DirtyHand is alive

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:46 pm
Shango said the key to the Hague did not exist
that door to eden remains closed
until the house with the path
But not of gold
is entered
[/b]

I don't know much about Shango, but if you choose to take him literally in some of his descriptions, then you have to answer the question of whether there is a house or structure in this area that could be used for parties of some type. Shango clearly(well about as clear as Shango ever gets with his riddles) indicates that a structure must be entered.  Does this place meet that criteria? 

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Follow the music
into the maze
the lions know they are being stalked
the gamblers and other Rollers talk
tell the cowboys!


The above passage indicates you have to follow a maze of some type.  This place could indeed be considered a maze, as you describe it as maze.  Is there a location within these rock formations that have concerts or a place for music?  Does that mean there is a source of electricity available in this area that allows for that.  Is it completely modernized for the convienence of the tourists?  Is there an area set aside where certain people go and is only known by a few? 

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating
afraid to walk through the maze why don’t the arawaks ambush the lions?
The cowboys don’t know.
DirtyHand knows, but is afraid of the Arawak Nation
The gods are talking


Again, Shango fits into many scenarios.  Nothing ever seems to fit completely, no matter how much you try, so maybe the riddles are just parts of the whole.  It's the piecing together that is do difficult.  I find your idea intriguing, yet I still have more questions than answers.  With those paths, you  indeed must walk through a maze of sorts.

The only passage of crytic messages that I am able to find that fits better than most is this one and it's not Shango:

Merian Ernest Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:51 pm Post subject: They call him bifrons...
Find Aruba. Find the Haystack. Find Santa Marta. Trace with your finger what the Antenna
has spoken about
.

Keep working on it Steve, I am interested.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: steve on October 13, 2007, 12:56:10 PM
Tunnels at Ayo
http://www.fodors.com/miniguides/mgresults.cfm?destination=sacramento@13&cur_section=sig&property_id=444113

Fits Shango's description of a Bohemian Grove type outdoor place
with rituals, secrets..."The fire's are burning" 
The St. John's Fires are lit on June 24th.

He seems to be describing two places:
1- Unpaved road made of gold bricks (drugs)
2- house with the path But not of gold

My guess is Lorenzo's rave party & an outdoor area



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 13, 2007, 03:34:05 PM
Tunnels at Ayo
http://www.fodors.com/miniguides/mgresults.cfm?destination=sacramento@13&cur_section=sig&property_id=444113

Fits Shango's description of a Bohemian Grove type outdoor place
with rituals, secrets..."The fire's are burning" 
The St. John's Fires are lit on June 24th.

He seems to be describing two places:
1- Unpaved road made of gold bricks (drugs)
2- house with the path But not of gold

My guess is Lorenzo's rave party & an outdoor area



Please elaborate on the gold bricks=drugs connection.  I would like to see how you made that connection.  I won't disagree with anything you have said so far...any guess is as good as the next.  How does Lorenzo fit into this scenario?  Are you saying Lorenzo had a party in this area?  How did you make that connection.  As I said, I am very curious. Thanks.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 13, 2007, 03:37:53 PM
OOOPS!  I forget this question, Steve, sorry.  Are you saying they burn those St. John fires in that location specifically or just in general?  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on October 13, 2007, 07:39:04 PM
Tunnels at Ayo
http://www.fodors.com/miniguides/mgresults.cfm?destination=sacramento@13&cur_section=sig&property_id=444113

Fits Shango's description of a Bohemian Grove type outdoor place
with rituals, secrets..."The fire's are burning" 
The St. John's Fires are lit on June 24th.

He seems to be describing two places:
1- Unpaved road made of gold bricks (drugs)
2- house with the path But not of gold

My guess is Lorenzo's rave party & an outdoor area



Please elaborate on the gold bricks=drugs connection.  I would like to see how you made that connection.  I won't disagree with anything you have said so far...any guess is as good as the next.  How does Lorenzo fit into this scenario?  Are you saying Lorenzo had a party in this area?  How did you make that connection.  As I said, I am very curious. Thanks.

Lala's -- I'm not Steve, but I'm pretty sure that 'brick' and 'gold' are common terms in drug trade.

I've heard 'gold' used kind of like a 'grade' of pot. Or type. Columbian gold, Mexican gold. I'm not sure if it pertains to other drugs as well.

And 'brick' is a unit. I've heard it used it connection with pot. I think I've also heard it used in reference to heroin? Not sure.

Anyway -- when Lorenzo got busted, that 'tune went thru my head'

One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved


jmo



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: steve on October 14, 2007, 12:18:07 AM
OOOPS!  I forget this question, Steve, sorry.  Are you saying they burn those St. John fires in that location specifically or just in general?  TIA

On June 17 and 18 both Shango & Simian are posting "The fires are lit"

It just makes sense to me that bonfires, rituals
would be practiced out in the open at night. 
Ayo Rock Formations would be a gated, secure, hidden area.

ArubaGirl writes-http://thepancollective.typepad.com/thepancollective/2006/06/there_is_smoke_.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: steve on October 14, 2007, 12:21:11 AM
I just noticed that one of the last posts by Shango is the word OMERTA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omerta

Even if somebody is condemned for a crime he has not committed, he is supposed to serve the sentence without giving the police any information about the real criminal.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 14, 2007, 12:26:49 AM
OOOPS!  I forget this question, Steve, sorry.  Are you saying they burn those St. John fires in that location specifically or just in general?  TIA

On June 17 and 18 both Shango & Simian are posting "The fires are lit"

It just makes sense to me that bonfires, rituals
would be practiced out in the open at night. 
Ayo Rock Formations would be a gated, secure, hidden area.

ArubaGirl writes-http://thepancollective.typepad.com/thepancollective/2006/06/there_is_smoke_.html

I thought theses fires were all over the island on that night of St. John.  I, of course, am no expert on this ritual.  In fact, I am confused as to why they even have it. Certainly, this would be a good place to have this.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on October 14, 2007, 03:07:47 AM
if you lose in blackjack, who wins? the house......

the "path" is to the maze....isolate the times it is used for context

"why did the girl owe money?".....that is the path to the maze....she spent her nights at their tables

a casino is "while of gold bricks"......Casablanca has a car as a prize.....but the road (not the path) is not paved

to find the right path, open the "window overlooking Babylon"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: steve on October 14, 2007, 01:28:04 PM
ArubaGirl's "St. John's Fires"

fire
There is smoke in the air tonight, together with flames of bright red and yellow contrasted against the dark starry sky.

No, Aruba didn't suddenly turn into a group of pyromaniacs, it's Saint John's Day, or Dia di San Juan as we say here. While that sounds very Catholic, our native ancestors left a mark on it by incoorperating a distinctive pagan ritual, burying the rooster (Dera Gai). Another tradition is to build bonfires. These can turn massive, and the fire department will have their hands full tonight.

Nowadays no roosters are harmed in the celebrating of this festival. Instead a fake rooster is put in the middle of a circle. This circle is formed by dancing men and women clad in bright red and yellows, the colors of fire. One person is blindfolded and tries to hit the "rooster". The people in the circle sing:

San Juan ta bin, San Juan ta bai/Ate cu e palo den su man (Saint John comes, Saint John goes/There he is with the stick in his hand)

It's a very simple song, but it is one of the few 19th century local songs that is still known.

I like this festival a lot because it celebrates how two cultures merged and produced something new.That's something that modern Aruba could learn a lot from.

Posted by arubagirl on June 24, 2006


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on October 15, 2007, 02:34:47 PM
I just noticed that one of the last posts by Shango is the word OMERTA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omerta

Even if somebody is condemned for a crime he has not committed, he is supposed to serve the sentence without giving the police any information about the real criminal.

This is interesting.  Which post by Shango contains this word?  I thought I had all of them but I guess not.  Can you give us a copy of that post by Shango?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 15, 2007, 04:46:50 PM
I just noticed that one of the last posts by Shango is the word OMERTA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omerta

Even if somebody is condemned for a crime he has not committed, he is supposed to serve the sentence without giving the police any information about the real criminal.

Is this from the lasts posts supposedly by Shango that were located at another forum?  I forget which one it was.  I will see if I can find the link later tonight. They were posted in August, I think.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on October 15, 2007, 06:52:18 PM
Having read previous posts, and not being the world's best at Shango/Simian...just wanted to share my impression when I just started to read Freebirds p.2 on the NH thread.

87: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 9:41 pm

One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on October 16, 2007, 08:23:36 PM
Anybody see that movie "CASINO?"

And who has the Elder SlanderFoot contacted in Babylon?
Hidden whispers, plans for the future.
OMERTA

All of Shango's information comes from the higher power, Olorum
Shango has not danced with the lions, nor Arawaks,and does not keep their company
Eyes of god may look from afar with great acuity. (keeness of hearing, sight, INTELLECT)

Shango looks from afar but speaks with truth.

Shango does not dance with the lions and looks from afar, viewing remotely with the third eye of god.

All has been seen from afar
and whispered by olorum to an earthbound son

If a bird whispers an evil secret, the listener is not the sinner!
Not all messages come from a terrestrial origin.

When olorum speaks, lesser gods listen
but do not ask how it is they hear


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 16, 2007, 11:10:01 PM
Anybody see that movie "CASINO?"

And who has the Elder SlanderFoot contacted in Babylon?
Hidden whispers, plans for the future.
OMERTA

All of Shango's information comes from the higher power, Olorum
Shango has not danced with the lions, nor Arawaks,and does not keep their company
Eyes of god may look from afar with great acuity. (keeness of hearing, sight, INTELLECT)

Shango looks from afar but speaks with truth.

Shango does not dance with the lions and looks from afar, viewing remotely with the third eye of god.

All has been seen from afar
and whispered by olorum to an earthbound son

If a bird whispers an evil secret, the listener is not the sinner!
Not all messages come from a terrestrial origin.

When olorum speaks, lesser gods listen
but do not ask how it is they hear

Never saw the movie...explain, please.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on October 17, 2007, 12:39:02 AM
Although I saw part of the movie, I cannot say I remember it very well....I'm with Lala's and would like a clearer explanation....Casino, Chicago, Mafia, Payouts, Drugs, Drink....Posner???

Still don't understand the Shango connection unless it's symbolism.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on October 19, 2007, 01:25:53 PM
Accidentally found a "level seven":

Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:57 pm
All know of the music
beckoning lost souls
to enter the seven levels of inferno
who gave Mary the poison wine of Bacchus?
Enter the Maze.


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:56 pm
Shango is the god of justice
alive in many forms
he who speaks through Oxum through lightning
and himself through thunder
father of the violent dance
diviner of secrets of the seven levels of inferno
bound to truth even as it burns
so that justice may be brought.


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:59 pm
Only those who cRave music go into the Maze



=====================LEVEL SEVEN COMPANIES=================
TECHNE DATA                       *  LEVEL SEVEN DESIGN
internet and network consulting   *  computational linguistics
new media technologies            *  for non-governmental
information technology research   *  organisations (NGOs)
--------------------------------------------------------------
TECHNEX                           *  TERRA PUBLISHING ARUBA
e-commerce, chipcard, internet and*  publisher of ECO ARUBA
satcom access technologies        *  and ECO ARUBA On-line

====================LEVEL SEVEN ORGANISATIONS=============
http://www.rainbowwarriors.org    *  LEVEL SEVEN
Sustainable Development and Human *  technology transfer and
Rights for Small Island Developing*  resource development
States and Indigenous Peoples     *  services for NGOs
==============================================================
>> level.seven@setarnet.aw    POBOX 1154, ORANJESTAD, ARUBA <<


Link that has links that go nowhere:

http://www.rainbowwarriors.org/sids/la-car/aruba/index.html



Founder Milton Ponson




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on October 19, 2007, 01:39:15 PM
Buckeye....looks like that rainbowwarriors.org copyright or whatever expired in 2006...Source text:

<META http-equiv="copyright" content="Rainbow Warriors International - 2000-2006">
<META http-equiv="expires" content="December 31, 2006>


Also, that Ponson name is another common one....ballplayer, this guy Milton....seems I've seen it posted for AHATA or something else...but not sure it connects with Shango/Simian...will have to look around.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on October 19, 2007, 01:46:16 PM
He was mentioned in a FP article back in May of 06 in the portion I've quoted:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/05/26/

Milton Ponson, leading man of Rainbow Warriors International, sounded the alarm.  Somebody informed him that AAA had granted almost all the concessions to the companies of Richard Lacle.  He says that the AAA has violated the rules for tender.  That was reason for Rudy Lampe (RED) to question the matter.  Apparently, Lacle is connected with possible penal offences, like money laundering and fraud.  The American justice suspects him of laundering government money via all sorts of devious channels and of committing fraud with the build of the Piarco airport in Trinidad, and with Calmaquip that was involved with the renovation of the Reina Beatrix airport.  Lampe is of the opinion that due to the above suspicions, this person should not be considered at all for concessions.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on October 19, 2007, 01:47:13 PM
Rainbow Warriors International proposes campaing
Stop the boycott against Aruba with lawsuits in the U.S.
DIARIO Aruba
11/23/2005

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Recently, a possibly boycott by the environmental organization was cancelled by a contract signed by Bouldin and Lawson.

Contrary to what Minister Wever insinuated, Rainbow Warriors International is working in the general interest of Aruba and the rest of the world. This is what Milton Ponson declared last Tuesday night to DIARIO.

(snipped)

Enough with pretty letters to Minister Bot, protests at the Plaza Betico Croes and Open Letters in the press. It is time to act!!! Ponson proposes lawsuits against the media who do not want to provide us with rebuttals and/or fair and accurate news coverage.

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2005_11_20_archive.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on October 19, 2007, 01:58:13 PM
Detailed Information:
On June 20, 1995 was founded Rainbow Warriors International (RWI), a non-profit organization dedicated to promoting sustainable development worldwide and human rights of Small Island Developing States, indigenous and non-represented peoples world wide, with headquarters in the Dutch Caribbean island of Aruba.

Our name is based on the Warriors of the Rainbow legend, a native American legend which talks of the Warriors of the Rainbow from all corners of the world uniting to help save Mother Earth and its creatures from the greed and destructive ways of our western world.

Rainbow Warriors International utilizes a "seven pillars" framework for sustainable development and human rights which enables transparent assimilation of sustainable development and human rights concepts into existing national (development) programs and policies, by identifying seven areas around which the essential elements of sustainable development can be constructed. 

 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on October 19, 2007, 01:59:23 PM
Buckeye -- I read klaas's new thread first and immediately thought of the 'seventh level' from Shango.

Very interesting.

And thanks for the additional info 2NJ.

Also interesting.....his initials.....MP


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on October 19, 2007, 01:59:34 PM
Detailed Information:
On June 20, 1995 was founded Rainbow Warriors International (RWI), a non-profit organization dedicated to promoting sustainable development worldwide and human rights of Small Island Developing States, indigenous and non-represented peoples world wide, with headquarters in the Dutch Caribbean island of Aruba.

Our name is based on the Warriors of the Rainbow legend, a native American legend which talks of the Warriors of the Rainbow from all corners of the world uniting to help save Mother Earth and its creatures from the greed and destructive ways of our western world.

Rainbow Warriors International utilizes a "seven pillars" framework for sustainable development and human rights which enables transparent assimilation of sustainable development and human rights concepts into existing national (development) programs and policies, by identifying seven areas around which the essential elements of sustainable development can be constructed. 

 


I'm sorry, hit enter by mistake....

Here is the source and the above is just a portion:

http://www.envirolink.org/resource.html?itemid=580419110051&catid=5


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on October 19, 2007, 02:04:45 PM
FYI - I just started a thread below for Milton Ponson  :wink:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on October 19, 2007, 02:19:04 PM
FYI - I just started a thread below for Milton Ponson  :wink:

Sharon mentioned above...I was on a Milton frenzy and had no clue.. :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JuJu on October 19, 2007, 05:22:19 PM
have any of you ever looked at this Marvel Comic stuff.  It's just that a lot of the language is similar to S/S

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/raveironfist.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on October 19, 2007, 08:10:05 PM
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:45 am
Shango finds it very humorous (and quite fitting) that a frenchman would assume the monniker of a Primate
 

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:50 am
As opposed to? Crack a book some time…


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 21, 2007, 05:35:56 PM
have any of you ever looked at this Marvel Comic stuff.  It's just that a lot of the language is similar to S/S

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/raveironfist.htm

Yes, it does indeed sound a lot like sources for Shango...as does Santeria and various myths.  Have you read any of the marvel comics?  I was never a reader of comic books when I was a child.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on October 21, 2007, 05:38:11 PM
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:45 am
Shango finds it very humorous (and quite fitting) that a frenchman would assume the monniker of a Primate
 

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:50 am
As opposed to? Crack a book some time…


Simian is a frenchman...hmmmmm...who does that sound like?  Maybe it was a tease by Shango to Simian or even an insult? 

Shango was dumb and uneducated?  Maybe Simian was just firing back for the insults. hmmmmm...I have wonder about this often.

What say you Colombo?  Give us an interpretation, please.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on October 21, 2007, 10:34:40 PM
JuJu wrote:    "have any of you ever looked at this Marvel Comic stuff.  It's just that a lot of the language is similar to S/S"

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:45 am
Shango finds it very humorous (and quite fitting) that a frenchman would assume the monniker of a Primate
 
Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:50 am
As opposed to? Crack a book some time…


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on October 21, 2007, 10:54:12 PM
COLOMBO,

So should we look at Marvel and figure out the frenchman who assumed a monkey moniker and tie it in with cracking a book?   :2doh:



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on October 22, 2007, 07:17:32 AM
COLOMBO,

So should we look at Marvel and figure out the frenchman who assumed a monkey moniker and tie it in with cracking a book?   :2doh:



Good one!

btw -- imvhoo -- the 'frenchman who assumed the primate moniker -- was Simian's doppleganger.

JMO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Magnolia on October 28, 2007, 09:04:27 PM
Lala's,
I was deleting some old files today and ran across
Dan's "Shango Scriptures" from back in July of 2005.. 
I assume that you probably have a copy.  If not, it is interesting if you haven't seen it in a while.  I saved it, so if you want me to copy and paste it here I would be happy to.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on October 29, 2007, 10:26:37 AM
Lala's,
I was deleting some old files today and ran across
Dan's "Shango Scriptures" from back in July of 2005.. 
I assume that you probably have a copy.  If not, it is interesting if you haven't seen it in a while.  I saved it, so if you want me to copy and paste it here I would be happy to.

I don't know about Lala's, but I know I would like to see them.  Would you post them here?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MuffyBee on October 29, 2007, 11:15:20 AM
Lala's,
I was deleting some old files today and ran across
Dan's "Shango Scriptures" from back in July of 2005.. 
I assume that you probably have a copy.  If not, it is interesting if you haven't seen it in a while.  I saved it, so if you want me to copy and paste it here I would be happy to.

Magnolia ~  Please post them.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Magnolia on October 29, 2007, 05:36:06 PM
I am not sure that Dan ever posted this on the internet....maybe he did,
but he emailed it around.  We have learned a lot since this was done,
but it is still interesting.....and long!

I am doing it in two post.

INTRODUCTION:

   The following are taken from the blogging website http://www.scaredmonkeys.com. They were posted by an unknown person called ‘Shango’. Shango is a god of justice, champion of the downtrodden, and righter of wrongs, hence the name. Shango claims to be a vessel of Olorum (see below), but I am convinced Shango is someone on the inside who knows everything that happened and for whatever reason wants this whole thing exposed. Everyone from an anonymous well-wisher to Marianna Croes to Anita Van Der Sloot have been named as Shango’s true identity, but we have no idea. Some people in the media have already been contacted about Shango and his (or her) posts, and Dan in Tx has contacted the FBI and is hoping for a face-to-face to explain this all to an agent. He has also made one attempt to send an earlier, less polished version to Beth Twitty. Please note: time is of the essence here; according to Shango, Van Der Straaten must be pinched hard before he retires in two weeks if any of this is to come out and be exposed now; otherwise, Shango suggests it will not happen for a long, long time! At the end of this compilation are links to the actual archived threads; they’re VERY long, but they hold Shango’s original posts and some relevant questions and correct guesses made by others. Please read this and take whatever action you see appropriate. Beth or Jug Twitty, some of the things Shango says happened are not pretty; be warned before you read this. I’ve made the effort to keep my translations as polite as possible, but some things can’t be sugar-coated. Just know that my intentions are the best when I put this together and decided to send it to you; I apologize if this piles more pain upon you. God bless you and yours, know that you are all in my thoughts and prayers.

THE KEY:
Here's a list of what the code means, as interpreted by myself and other scaredmonkey bloggers; together we agreed enough to come up with this. This is all interpretation and speculation--these aren't necessarily my opinions; I'm just interpreting what I think Shango is saying. Others may see things differently, or dismiss this as a hoax. I think this is all too real.

*Mary=Natalee
*The Lamb=Joran
*Shivas=Kalpoe brothers
*Dirty Hand=police commissioner Van Der Straaten
*The Elder=Paulus Van Der Sloot
*His Lordship=unknown; maybe the Aruban Prime Minister
*Sumerians= maybe American government officials or Jossy Mansur, head of Diario
*Babylonians=European (Dutch) influence on Aruba
*Arawaks=native Arubans
*Arawak King=Prime Minister, or possibly the boat with the same name from the mainland that frequents Aruba.
*Olorum=supreme being
*46th Spirit=a reference to Bifrons, a spirit with the swollen features of a rotting corpse; makes people around him aware of their own mortality. Not sure what the connection is here…
*Teepees=dwelling of innocent people/carefree island culture was first suggested, but I think it really means the island’s businesses: casinos, hotels, etc. that would be hurt worst by a drop in tourism
*Roll=reference to doing the drug ecstasy; doing X is called ‘rolling’
*Keystone=Dirty Hand=the center of corruption, which will expose this crime and other corruption
*The Lions=the truly dangerous people involved in underworld; Natalee’s real killers (or those responsible for her death)
*The Maze=location of rave parties/ seedy underworld of the island
*Sacrifice=person or people who will take the fall if truth isn't exposed (The Lamb and shivas)
*Cowboys=Americans searching for Natalee; her family, EquuSearch, FBI, etc.
*Indians= arubans
*Loot=Natalee; some think this means hard evidence of any kind
*Wampum= money, income to Aruba; the economy
*Occam's Razor=medieval principle that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed
*Doppleganger=an invisible shadow-self possessed by every human
*Eden=truth 
*cowboy gods=the real power in the U.S.: FBI, senators, et cetera 

Note: Shango says three things frequently enough that I think it more efficient to provide one translation here to use afterward:

I must (go) feed the messengers
Either Shango has sources of his own he has to confer with (my guess), or he is leaking information to the media or elsewhere as well.

The gods are talking
Refers to ongoing communiqués between the Aruban government, the Netehrlands, the U.S., etc.

Light the fires!
The day of charges/trial/conviction are approaching.











http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1190

1: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, (another poster speculating on the case)
who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….
A dishonest, corrupt Dutch official on the island has a lot to lose if the depths of the seedy Aruban night life are discovered.

2: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian,
older PVDS had one or two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?
Shango
Perhaps someone will crack. Keep pressure on the three held so far to implicate the real suspects.

3: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
The Sumerians do not like the Babylonian intrusion.
The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….
The P.M. does not want any impartial, honest investigators involved in this because of the cover-up, not American or from the Netherlands. It seems that there have been political pressures between Aruba and The Hague for a while now…the Hague wants the drug and rave scene cleaned up, but the Arubans distrust intrusion, and stand a lot to lose it seems. Ref. http://www2.rnw.nl/rnw/en/currentaffairs/region/southamerica/ant040113.html?view=
Standard  for related article.



4: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Simian,
why was the key from the Babylonian’s Place not used to open the Sumerians Door ?
They have become famished and Eden is beckoning….
Why didn’t the Dutch officials use the initial FBI agents more? If they had, this would be closer to being solved!

5: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 3:26 pm
Simian,
his lordship did not bring the expected key
the door never existed
Eden is distant
The P.M. did not grant the powers or assign the tasks the Americans (FBI) expected, and he never intended to. The truth is hidden.

6: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 3:30 pm
Simian,
his lordship did not bring the key for the Arawaks
So it will remain “cowboys and Indians”
The posse was too late
The P.M. did not let the Aruban investigators do what they needed as well (the delay in arrests perhaps)? The search can only be completed by Americans and the Holloways, but they were stymied by misinformation and false leads planted by the corrupt authorities. Why was Natalee never found? The searchers were directed to all the wrong places!

7: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 3:33 pm
Simian
His Lordship did not bring the key found in the car, it did not exist
The Arawaks can’t open the door
Hope lies with the cowboys,
but the posse was too late
Eden is still distant
Any evidence found in the suspects’ vehicles after it was washed later that night will not stand up in court. Only determined Americans can finally solve this mystery. Will the truth ever be known?

8: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 3:37 pm
Why don’t the Arawaks to play the Babylonian Card ?
The posse is far from the fort and the loot is gone
The indians can’t count on the cowboys
The arawaks need to audition the singing card
The Arubans should pressure the Netherlands for more outside help.
The Americans have been looking far from where Natalee is,  and she is hidden from them.
The volunteers can’t rely on the American searchers now (they have been misled)
The Arubans need to question DJ Croes again. He was released way too soon.
 


9: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 3:40 pm
The key does not exist
The Arawaks knew Babylonian involvement would prove futile
That is why the cowboys left the fort and a searching with the Indians
The evidence needed is lost.
The Aruban officials knew the Dutch officials on the island would deliberately botch the investigation and wouldn’t do any good.
The Americans and the volunteers looked in all the wrong places.


10: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 3:43 pm
The fallen judge agreed to sing because he can hum any tune
He needs to sing for his son, or see the end of his Babylonian offspring
Paulus Van Der Sloot waived his right to not testify against Joren because he is untouchable either way
He needs to tell all he knows or Joren will get fingered for the crime, maybe convicted (to keep the real killers and the web of corruption secret)
11: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 3:45 pm
Shango is not limited to any location, orixas are his messengers
Shango claiming to be supernatural; a seer. Again, I bet Shango is an insider to the case
 

12: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 3:49 pm
Elder needs to sing to preserve his lineage
To agree to remain silent is to agree not to hum any tune
The Arawaks are desperate, they fear for the tribe, they do not want war with the cowboys
But the loot remains hidden
And the Arawaks keep their singing card hidden as well
The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys
If Paulus does not come forward honestly, Joren is going down. Silence will not help his son.
The Arubans do not want Americans to think Aruba is a bad place, but the evidence of truth is not to be found. Someone among the Arubans knows what happened as well, but he or she won’t step forward.
Paulus and the Arubans both want the truth to be known, but it would be disaster for the island, especially from the U.S.

13: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 3:57 pm
The Arawaks may not need to play the singing card
The cowboys won’t hear the music and the teepees will be safe
Wampum is needed as the doors closed on Eden
If this case is too soon forgotten or unchallenged, all of this will blow over. Holloways will be satisfied, the truth will be lost, things (both with tourism and with the corruption) will continue as usual.

14: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun
The Americans must do as the Arubans instruct. It has been slow (in tourism?) for a month; the island needs money. The native’s  source will stay hidden; the scapegoats will keep everyone’s attention just fine. All three must be implicated if the P.M.’s  dirty little secrets are to stay hidden. The truth is probably lost and the second search will be similar to the first, with misinformation and misunderstandings and nothing to show.
15: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 4:14 pm
Simian your Dopple has resumed position
At one point someone claiming to be Simian was posting as well, but Shango somehow knew which was the real Simian.
16: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 4:16 pm
You must remember
The Arawaks placed singing beetles with the Babylonian and the two Shivas
They were never alone
The Arubanss bugged the conversations between Joren and the Kalpoes; they know the boys are actually innocent of Natalee’s death. They also can make sure they are the first to know if one or more thinks about coming clean…

17: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 4:22 pm
Because the fallen judge agreed, he can sing any song he wants
A poisonous siren in the halls of babylon
He will sing to keep doors open, much to the cowboys distress
Paulus is off the hook now, and he will go on to be judge in Netherlands despite his role in this.
Anything he says could hurt the American role in the investigation; he has contacts

18: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 4:26 pm
The maze of Babylon is very difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent
The Arawaks cannot reveal their singing card
many teepees would be destroyed and the cowboys would get upset
the singing card is bad luck for wampum for many moons
So there must be some type of sacrifice
The gods are hungry, the cowboys are hungry
Great disruption in the halls of babylonian palace
It is hard to navigate the web of Dutch corruption, but the Aruban’s  inside source would destroy the island’s reputation. A lot of casinos would close because the tourism from the U.S. would stop for many months. Somebody must take the fall, because the powers that be and concerned Americans want a quick resolution

19: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 4:29 pm
There will be sacrifice
Tribal elders worried
Bad wampum, many moons
Light the fires
The Kalpoes and Joren will be charged to keep the cover-up going.
Otherwise the tourism will be hurt for a long time. Light the fires?

20: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 4:33 pm
Arawaks do not like Babylonian musicians
Everyone in camp hears poison music
Many teepees fall
New wars with babylon
No Wampum, many moons
Light the Fires!
The Arubans do not like interference from the Netherlands (like the Dutch marines). Everyone knows there are lies upon lies. The economy will be ruined and there will be tension between Aruba and the Netherlands. Light the fires!
21: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 4:37 pm
What is an Arawak? (someone asked him this I think)
To find answers, one must Google if smoke signals blowing in strong wind
Apparently, the Arawak are the island’s native tribe that migrated from the mainland. Hence this name for the Arubans.

22: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.
Many teepees fall. No Wampum.
Cowboys eat Sacrifice. Arawaks eat sacrifice.
Dirty hand stays hidden, but all are well-fed.
Cowboys happy, but unrest in the halls of the palace
Babylon owes the Arawaks!
The Aruban officials have control over Joren and the Kalpoes. They can’t let Joren tell the truth because it will ruin everything for them. Bad for the economy.
The Americans will buy that the boys are the murderers. The truth is not known, but everyone is content…except for unrest in the upper offices of Aruban government. Any fallout from this will be the fault of the Dutch for not stepping in!

23: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 4:50 pm
If Babylonian Card sings, all will fill
Teepees and the house of babylon
We must have a sacrifice
Hide dirty hand
Light the fires!
If Joren squeals, everyone will watch the results worldwide.
Police Chief Van Der Straaten must not be investigated to keep things covered up. Light the fires!

24: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 4:53 pm
If Babylonian card sings ALL will fall
Teepees and the house of Babylon
If cowboys stay, after the sacrifice, everyone see dirty hand.
No Wampum, Many Moons.
Light the fires!
If Joren squeals, it will hurt the island immensely. If the Americans stay investigating after the trial, the truth will come out (possibly from Van Der Straaten himself somehow), even though damage will be done to Aruba.

25: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 4:55 pm
If cowboys see dirty hand, many teepees fall. House of Babylon falls.
we must have a sacrifice to feed the cowboys.
they go back to the fort with no loot.
If the Americans find out about whatever Van Der Straaten was involved in, the powers that be on the island will fall, and the Dutch reputation will be tarnished. The Americans must be appeased so they accept the lack of real evidence (Natalee’s body)

26: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 4:58 pm
Halls of the house of babylon may suddenly twist to accomodate cowboys walking in the maze.
No loot, but many answers.
Better twisted hallways than fallen houses.
Many invisible spirits around Arawak Fires. Many gods watching.
we must have a sacrifice.
Light the fires!
The Dutch system will have to change to accommodate the American’s persistence in investigating the underworld of the island. Better this than the whole thing be exposed. Many mysterious people in that underworld. There must be a trial (of Joren and the Kalpoes)

27: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 5:02 pm
Do not listen to cowgirls who cast shadows on the walls of doubt….
There will be a sacrifice.
The cowboys will be happy.
The house of Babylon won’t fall and crush the teepees
There will be a sacrifice
Soon many will see smoke signals
Cowboys will go back to fort
But first we need the sacrifice
Do not listen to the news media (does this refer to Fox News and Greta)?
The boys will be tried for this. The Americans (in general, probably not Beth Twitty!) will be happy.
The Dutch system will be intact and no damage will be done to the powers that be on Aruba.
The Americans will leave as soon as a trial is concluded. But there will be indications that something is wrong….

28: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 5:04 pm
Prepare the fires.
We need a sacrifice
A babylonian beast. Young Lamb der Sloot
This is pretty self-explanatory. Usually Shango isn’t this straightforward though.

29: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 5:13 pm
arawaks are lighting the fire
babylonians have no hunger
cowboys want a sacrifice
The typical Aruban is is perfectly willing to let this pan out, or else is afraid to come forth(remember, these ‘lions’ are powerful local officials and drug dealers from the mainland. They are VERY dangerous people) The European Dutch don’t really care one way or another. The Americans demand justice!

30: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks
The way is clouded for the sacrifice
Rules have changed, so has the maze
the way is lost for the pioneers who went to live among the indians
The flames are growing
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police;
to spare the teepees
Singing cards have lost their power
Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand
His lordship will bestow the title soon….
They will save the teepees and the palace,
but first
The Sacrifice
Joren knew it was dangerous to deal with certain people on the island; who knows his fate now? Rules have changed, and so has the rave scene (to cover things up)? The truth is lost for Natalee’s family; they’re kept too close to things, controlled and helpless. Witnesses will not be reliable now. Somebody will have to be tried to spare the embarrassment and those involved in the corruption. The natives don’t like Van Der Straaten. The P.M. will remove van Der Straaten soon, but a trial is needed.

31: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 5:30 pm
We need a sacrifice to appease the Arawaks and the Cowboys
Teepees already swaying in strong babylonian wind
House of Babylon does not want a sacrifice
They do not care about Arawak Teepees
only wrath of cowboys
A trial will keep the Aruban way of life safe and make the Americans happy. There is a real danger here to the powers that be. The Van Der Sloots do not want Joren to take the fall. They don’t care about the island’s welfare, but they are afraid of U.S. investigators.

32: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 5:32 pm
The sacrifice is the correct food to appease the gods, arawaks, and cowboys
but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake
even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed
A trial will certainly make the Americans happy as well as the drug lords. But Dutch integrity is shaken regardless, even if van Der Straaten’s role is not revealed.

33: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 5:39 pm
Every tribe has bad Indians
Every fort has bad cowboys
If sirens sing a poison song, all will get sick
Arawaks and cowboys working well
Arawaks fear wrath of cowboys for DirtyHand
But babylonians live in teepees too
If the house of babylon is to remain erect, it must protect the babylonians who have lived in teepees, among the arawaks, for a long time.
babylon will agree to a sacrifice of newer teepee dwellers to prevent the story of dirtyhand being made public
Dirtyhand scares arawaks too
the sacrifice will be the correct sacrifice to appease the gods and cowboys
cowboys will leave without loot
There are bad people in every society; even the Americans have self-serving individuals (the media)? If the corruption is revealed, everyone will see it! The natives  fear American reaction if corruption is revealed, and so do the Dutch powers on Aruba. If the status quo is to be preserved, it must make the Dutch officials and Aruba look innocent until things die down. The possibility of Van Der Straaten being exposed scares the Arubans too. But bringing the boys to trial will be enough to keep the Americans happy even without any real evidence.

34: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 5:43 pm
Meetings with his lordship will reveal several mysteries
the sacrifice also knows the fires have been lit
Talking with the powers that be (maybe including Paulus) will not answer any questions or doubts (we’re only revealing mysteries, not their answers). The boys must know now that they’re going down as scapegoats.

35: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 5:48 pm
The simplicity of Occams Razor is often outweighed by the complexity of maintaining factors in an elemental state
Keep theories simple, even though it is hard.

36: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 5:50 pm
The pain the sacrificial beast will feel depends on how quickly the cowboys return to the fort.
How long the boys will languish in trial or jail depends on how quickly the Americans lose interest and go home. At this point I think cowboys is specifically referring to Beth and Jug Twitty as often as not.

37: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 5:54 pm
The Arawaks are not going to sacrifice a scapegoat
Babylon needs to allow one sacrifice to keep DirtyHand hidden
Babylon scared of DirtyHand
Arawaks scared of DirtyHand
If sacrifice is made, teepees are safe, villagers and cowboys happy
If DirtyHand discovered, House of Babylon falls, Teepees crushed under great house
The Arubans won’t let Joren be tried if they think he’s innocent. Everyone is scared of Van Der Straaten, so a token trial is needed. That way everyone is happy and kept in the dark. I’m wondering if Dirty Hand means Van Der Straaten, or the corruption in general.

38: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy
Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House
Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house,
and so DirtyHand was discovered
But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings
He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous
The natives want the Americans satisfied, and the Dutch want their integrity maintained. Some Americans (maybe FBI or similar) know something about the corruption, and they will be the key to uncovering this mess. Van Der Straaten will leave his post and his power and influence but with his misdeeds kept secret because of the fake trial.

39: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 6:00 pm
arawaks and babylonians often fight, but this is kept from the cowboys as it can affect wampum for many moons.
The Arubans and Dutch often come to odds, but the Arubans don’t want the U.S. to know about any instability for obvious reasons. Again, see above article.

40: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 6:02 pm
The babylonians are to blame.
The arawaks were worried about teepees and the cowboys.
They did not bring DirtyHand into the Tribe!
He will go back to babylon broken, after the sacrifice is eaten
The Dutch have allowed the corruption to get to this point. The Arubans are worried about their livelihood from the Americans; they do not like dealing with the corrupt Dutch officials / Van Der Straaten! He will slink away whenever he gets a chance.

41: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 6:04 pm
If DirtyHand sings, sacrifice will still be eaten.
But there will be many more people at the feast, and the cowboys would resent the Arawaks for Babylons interference.
Even if Van Der Straaten is exposed, the boys will be in big trouble for their part. But the Americans will be pissed at the Arubans if they let the corrupt Dutch take control of the situation.

42: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist.
doors to eden remain closed.
The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty.
Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.
If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons.
DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon.
Better to prepare the sacrifice quickly so the cowboys go home
….without the loot
The P.M. will not ever allow the U.S. full participation, and the truth stays hidden. The Aruban officials hold the boys (Joren and the Kalpoes). Van Der Straaten can destroy the Arubans and the corrupt Dutch officials.
43: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
There are many DirtyHands among the Arawak, and so it has been for centuries…
There have been such corrupt individuals for as long as the Dutch have had Aruba

44: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 6:28 pm
All preceding stated is verifiable
DirtyHand is well known
there will be a sacrifice
the gods have been talking
the fires have been lit
the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot
that is why they are preparing the sacrifice
All fear DirtyHand
Arawaks and babylon
I must go feed the messengers
The stage is set as of today: the corruption is well-known on the island at least, there will be charges and trial against the boys, speculation escalates, the media is ready, the Americans are satisfied even without a body. Everyone is afraid of the corruption, both the Arubans and the Dutch. Is my source saying he has to pay informants now?Someone suggested ‘I must go feed the messengers’ means Shango is leaking information to the media himself. That would explain the ‘anti false information’ bullshit.

45: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 6:30 pm
Shango is not a Simian Doppleganger and has his own messengers
Yeah, I think Shango must have his own sources when he talks about feeding the messengers. The rest is another reference to the fake Simian.

Out of chronological order:

46: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys.
All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat.
The gods are talking
Joren will be charged with Natalee’s death, and everyone will eat the trial up.
 

47: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA
Natalee first got into trouble at the rave, but the truth of this is not easy to discern. This rave was held in a shoddy house or seedy establishment; some have suggested that the ‘party’ Natalee was taken to was near the old gold mine in Arawaki National Park; see attached photos. Date rape and overdose led to Natalee’s death;  DNA evidence will surface here.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1191


48: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 8:25 pm
The Arawaks want the truth to come out
As long as DirtyHand is not found
Aruba is preserved and Babylon will pay the price
the gods know that the blame lies on babylon
the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot
The Arubans want the Dutch corruption revealed as long as tourism isn’t hurt. Aruba’s economy may be preserved, but it this will hurt the Netherlands somehow, and blame ultimately lies with them.

49: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 8:27 pm
DirtyHand and the fallen judge may not be crucified
the gods are talking
PVDS and Van Der Straaten may not ever be implicated in anything.

50: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak
The singing card can not be played
The cowboys would circle the wagons
The arawaks are preparing the sacrifice
light the fires
the gods are talking
DirtyHand is not a native Aruban, and for now he will not talk. The Arubans are ready for this to blow over, and the Americans are waiting for the outcome of a trial. Light the fires. The gods are talking.

51: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 9:21 pm
The sacrificial offering will not be scapegoat
Does this mean the boys won’t be convicted, or that they will because they aren’t innocent of some wrongdoing (thus not a scapegoat by definition)? See my theory at the bottom of this document

52: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
Who knows what song the elder will sing
Will Paulus come clean for Joren, stay silent, or lie for himself?

53: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl
the arawaks new the girl
and the babylonians still know the girl
The Kalpoes know who Natalee is, or it may be the Biblical sense of ‘knowing a woman’. But she was new to the raves and drug scene. The officials know where her body is…or that she was alive after she went missing and was used again in the Biblical sense by her captors. If you ever read this Beth, I’m really sorry.

54: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!
The P.M. wans to protect the Dutch image by covering the corruption, he doesn’t care about Paulus Van Der Sloot. Remember…it is the corruption that is the problem here!

55: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 9:34 pm
the struggle between the babylonians and the arawaks still remains hidden
the arawaks awaited the key
his lordship said no
the door to eden remains closed
they are preparing the fire
Nobody yet realizes the true extent of the corruption and problems between the corrupt Dutch officials on Aruba and the Netherlands, but the Arubans are waiting for someone to discover it. The truth remains hidden as the trial creeps closer…

56: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak
Many pioneers have settled with the tribe
DirtyHand is not a native Aruban. Many people are coming to Aruba because of this (Natalee’s family, volunteers, FBI, etc)

57: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Did the babylonians like to make movies?
From the tears, a new river will spring forth…..
Did somebody (someone Dutch, specifically) have a film of what happened to Natalee? From the horror of this evidence a new route to the truth will be found!
 

58: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The card of babylon was already played
if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation
the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made
Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles
cowboys hear the singing, but the words are not understood
The gods and the babylonians are worried about the cowboys response
If van Der Straaten reveals what he knows, everything will break open and the scandal will totally discredit the Dutch governors of Aruba and the Arubans themselves. The powers that be and Dutch are worried about the reaction from the U.S.


59: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 9:51 pm
The 46th spirit does not walk the same circle as the elders, this shall be his downfall
Perhaps it means that not all circumstances can be controlled, and forensic evidence may be found yet (remember, Bomans the god of the dead is the 46th spirit). Someone has also said that 4:6 has something to do with Catholicism; see below. Perhaps Natalee’s body did or will resurface despite efforts to hide it?


60: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Tribe knows all of the players, even the elders of the inner circle
The Arubans know who is who and who does what, even to the upper levels of government.

61: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 9:55 pm
DirtyHand walks with the elders
Babylon knows
Van Der Straaten and the gov’t officials on Aruba are friends, even officials in the Netherlands know this.

62: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 9:57 pm
The cowboys hear the singing but don’t understand the words
The Americans involved with the investigation know something is wrong, but don’t know what…

63: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left
Van Der Straaten knows what happened to Natalee after the Kalpoes left her and Joran.

64: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders
The Arubans know Joran’s reputation and what he does.

65: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon?
DirtyHand knows, this is his Power
there will be 46 sacrifices
Are Natalee’s real murderers (kidnappers, whatever) still in Aruba or did they return to Europe or South America?
Van Der Straaten knows for sure; this is why he is leaving.
29:10-46 Sacrifices Something about honoring the sacrifice of the Virgin Mary (Natalee)

66: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:08 pm
The 46th will pay for the children of the Elders
The truth about Natalee’s death will save Joren and the Kalpoes from a murder trial.

67: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:13 pm
DirtyHand walks in ALL houses
houses of the Arawaks, and houses of Rave
He can break the alibi
Van Der Straaten knows everything that goes on in Aruba; he knows what the natives do, what the ravers do, what the drug lords do. He can expose everything.

68: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:16 pm
Mary was not a Virgin
The Arawaks know
The cowboys know
DirtyHand can break the Alibi, he walks all circles
Natalee had done drugs before, or been to a rave before? Or simply had sex prior to that fateful night? The Arubans know for sure, some Americans (Nat’s friends) know for sure?
Van Der Straaten knows.

69: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
If the Alibi is broken by DirtyHand the walls of Babylon will shake
All of the Netherlands will be scandalized if van Der Straaten talks or is found out.

70: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:23 pm
Old treaties between the Babylonians and the Arawaks were maintained until the gods heard
Babylon now fears reprisals
the fires are lit
there will be 46 sacrifices
Things have been this way for awhile, and will be until a greater power interferes. The Dutch fear the repercussions of this partnership. The stage is set. Find Natalee’s body.

71: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon
the girl knew this
Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.
But not to satiate desire.
The Netherlands (the Dutch, the Europeans) hold many pleasures and vices, and Natalee knew this. DirtyHand was there with (at the same time as) Natalee as well, but for differents reasons. If he is friends with PVDS, perhaps he was watching out for Joran?

72: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Why did the girl owe money?
Natalee somehow owed money to one of the crime lords? Or does this refer to her casino losses?

73: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon
He holds the real key
The Arawaks fear his exposure
The house of babylon would tumble down on the teepees of the Arawaks
DirtyHand knows the cowboys will leave lootless.
He can break the alibi
DirtyHand is not European, or not born in Europe. Was Van Der Straten born in Europe? Perhaps this means he is not well-liked in the Netherlands (disowned child). He knows what happened; he knows all of this. The Arubans fear what would happen if he squealed (due to economic losses). Both the Dutch interests and the local interests would be terribly damaged and scandalized. But DirtyHand knows the Americans will not find Natalee (He knows how thorougly she is hidden)? He can break this wide open.

74: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
even after a daughter gives birth to a grandchild, the father of the new mother will still claim his daughter is a virgin. All who enter the damned corridors of the houses of Babylon know the dangers that await
But the knowledge that they are forbidden is what makes them so pleasurable
Parents tend to think their children are blameless (may refer to Beth or Anita). Everyone who associates with the drug scene knows it is dangerous, but the temptation is still there. This seems to refer to Natalee directly, though all accounts are she was not that wild a girl. Perhaps it refers to Joren and Natalee; Joren knew what kind of things might happen if he went with her there. I am beginning to think somebody NOT involved with the Dutch needs to investigate this underground drug/rave scene.
 
75: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
All who enter the damned corridors of the houses of Babylon know the dangers that await
Everyone who consorts with drug dealers and criminals know it is dangerous.

76: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Coverups begin with elders and the founders of the houses of Babylon
Not the minions
DirtyHand knows this
The cover-up started at highest levels of government and worked down; Dirtyhand knows the extent of this.

77: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:50 pm
Are insects conned into entering Venus Flytraps?
Was Natalee tricked or lured into a situation she normally would’ve avoided? Or is Shango saying the insect knows the danger but goes for the honey anyway?

78: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation
Van Der Straaten  knows all the players in this web of corruption. If he comes forth, the Dutch and the drug trade will be destroyed (either literally or figuratively)
79: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:56 pm
The Simian knows his Lordship did not have a key to open the door to Eden. The answer lies with the Arawak Nation.
Simian knew the P.M. never intended to have a fair investigation! The answer to all this lies with the Arubans (perhaps only they can really drive the drug and crime out)!
80: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 11:01 pm
If the door to Eden is to be opened with that key, it will be tomorrow
or forever remained closed
If the scandal is exposed due to evidence, it will be on June 27 or not at all. This may refer to Natalee’s body. It was not exposed due to evidence, so that route is blocked.

81: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time
Self-explanatory 
82: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 11:12 pm
Even Flying Birds Sing.
If the key does not arrive tomorrow, that door to Eden will remain closed
I must feed the messengers.

Not sure what to make of this one. ‘Sing’ refers to informing the authorities, but as for flying bird…maybe this means someone not on the island might tell something. If the key to the case is not found by 06/27 the truth will be hidden.




27th
83: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found
Poster babalu must have guessed the truth. If Natalee’s body is not found today, it will never be found (and of course it wasn’t). Looking back, blogger babalu guessed DirtyHand’s identity as well.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Magnolia on October 29, 2007, 05:50:31 PM
This is the second part...see post above.


lies with the Arubans (perhaps only they can really drive the drug and crime out)!
80: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 11:01 pm
If the door to Eden is to be opened with that key, it will be tomorrow
or forever remained closed
If the scandal is exposed due to evidence, it will be on June 27 or not at all. This may refer to Natalee’s body. It was not exposed due to evidence, so that route is blocked.

81: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time
Self-explanatory 
82: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 11:12 pm
Even Flying Birds Sing.
If the key does not arrive tomorrow, that door to Eden will remain closed
I must feed the messengers.

Not sure what to make of this one. ‘Sing’ refers to informing the authorities, but as for flying bird…maybe this means someone not on the island might tell something. If the key to the case is not found by 06/27 the truth will be hidden.




27th
83: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found
Poster babalu must have guessed the truth. If Natalee’s body is not found today, it will never be found (and of course it wasn’t). Looking back, blogger babalu guessed DirtyHand’s identity as well.

84: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 12:26 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting.
Simian your Doppleganger is with us
Babalu guessed something about the Dutch corruption in his post of 12:30 am. See thread archives linked below.
 
Babalú Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned
“No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis” Van Der Straaten!

June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
85: Shango Says:
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys.
All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat.
The gods are talking
Joren shall be tried to appease the natives and the Americans, and if he’s convicted everyone will be happy (they’ll eat it up)
The gods are talking.
86: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 8:06 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into Babylon on his 12:31 A.M. post
DirtyHand is alive and well
Apparently someone asked if DirtyHand was a living person. Not sure.
87: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 9:41 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA
This appears above, with the same wording. Natalee went with Joran to the shoddy rave house, rolled X intentionally or not, and got into trouble. DNA evidence can be found there. ‘While of gold bricks the road is not paved’ seems to indicate a dive or flophouse, or maybe just a plain old building like at the National Park?

88: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post
DirtyHand is alive
DirtyHand is as yet safe and hidden.

89: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 9:46 pm
Shango said the key to the Hague did not exist
that door to eden remains closed
until the house with the path
But not of gold
is entered
The connection with the Dutch officials and this scandal is in a ‘house with a path not of gold’ Until that evidence is found, the scandal will stay hidden. The evidence at that house is VERY important!
 
90: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12
See above; we have determined DirtyHand is Van Der Straaten

91: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder
Van Der Straaten is known among the locals, the Dutch officials, and PVDS.
 

92: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 9:57 pm
Outsiders brought into the Arawak tribe walk in many circles, nameless
Outsiders don’t know enough to navigate the island or its ways

93: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 9:59 pm
DirtyHand can bring down all houses
DirtyHand is the key
His reach is long
He walks in all circles
consort to all, except for the gods
He knows the sacrifice is not responsible
DirtyHand can expose this whole affair. He  is the key. He is known in many circles and is known to all, except the highest officials in the Netherlands. He knows the boys did not kill Natalee.

94: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Of whom is the young Babylonian afraid?
Why won’t he talk?
Who is Joran afraid of? Why won’t he spill everything? He stands to lose a lot from this!
These drug lords on Aruba are not far short of Pablo Escobar; Joren is most likely afraid for his life or that of his parents…which is why he is still NOT come forth with the truth!

95: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:05 pm
The dice throwers know
the maze of the rave
and the fly that entered the trap
DirtyHand is the key
He walks in many circles
The gamblers of the island know about the raves and the drug scene, and they know Natalee went to one. Again, DirtyHand is the key. I think that someone at the casino (maybe one of Natalee’s companions) heard something about where she and Joren went.
Has anyone questioned the other kids who went on the trip about any of this?

96: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:06 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles. He walks in many circles.
The boys (Kalpoes and Joren) were never near a beachwith Natalee like they claim! Every trip they make to a beach is just part of a cover-up to make things look good to the cowboys (Americans). He (DirtyHands) is well-known by all and knows everything that happened.

97: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:09 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles
DirtyHand knows this
Children of the Elders play in the maze,
but DirtyHand is afraid to rave
The boys are not clever enough to cover or protect themselves, and DirtyHand knows this. The boys never went to the beach with Natalee. The Dutch on Aruba go to many raves and do other questionable things (see my synopsis below), but DirtyHand doesn’t do any of that.

98: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:29 pm
Babylonians and Shivas do not play with sandcastles
Follow the music!
Mary who was not a Virgin entered the maze to discover it’s secrets
The lamb is scared
The fires are lit
But now the lamb is a goat
 The boys are not clever enough to cover or protect themselves. They never went to any beach! Follow the music- must refer to the underground rave scene on the island. Natalee went to a rave and possibly found out something that got her in trouble? Maybe she met someone dangerous? Joren is scared, but it may be too late for him…

99: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll
ask the men who play dice and “roll”
Natalee’s was never by the ocean or the beach; ask the gamblers and the ravers who ‘roll’ X.
 
100: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:32 pm
THE DRAX SCORES\

drax Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles=
they weren’t on the beach?


101: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Follow the music
Investigate the raves!

102: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The people Natalee gambled with at the casino know what happened to Natalee, or have a clue. They know about the raves.  The gamblers there (not necessarily locals!) are somehow involved.

103: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
Mary ROLLED through the Maze
There is more than one house of music
the Lamb is a Scapegoat
Natalee did X or was given X at the rave, or maybe she went from one party to another.
Joran did not kill Natalee


104: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:42 pm
The Lamb returned to the fold
Mary Rolled
And the lions played
Joren went home, perhaps he was afraid of the people at the party. Natalee got high on X, and the ravers took advantage of her situation…I feel so sorry for her, even now. Again, see the synopsis.

105: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
Windows looking onto Babylon are being opened by the ThreadSurfers
Us bloggers on scaredmonkeys.com are getting closer to the truth. 

106: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.
The raves offer many pleasures including sex (rape)? DirtyHand knows what happened. So does Paulus Van Der Sloot. Joren did not kill Natalee. Could deflowering of forbidden fruits specifically mean a place where pretty young girls are lured and date raped? See the entry below- gardeners would mean the guys who prey on these girls.

107: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze
He knows of the forbidden fruit
and the gardeners
DirtyHand has been to raves and similar parties. He knows what all goes on there…and who goes there too.

108: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open?
Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths.
Tell the Cowboys!
The Arawaks are hiding the path to the Maze for the Babylonians.
Why haven’t the authorities investigated the raves?! The Arubans hide the raves for the sake of the Dutch officials. Why hasn’t anyone given an inside explanation to give to the FBI! Tell the Americans about the raves and the drug scene that goes with it!

109: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:57 pm
All know of the music
beckoning lost souls
to enter the seven levels of inferno
who gave Mary the poison wine of Bacchus?
Enter the Maze.

Everyone knows of the raves (on the island), and what they offer. Who drugged Natalee? Go to the raves to find out.
---
110: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:01 pm
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.
111: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post
112: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:13 pm
Lucy spoke at 10:56
Lucy Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:56 pm
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.
Van Der Straaten…with this many people coming in and out of the forum discussion, repeat questions are inevitable
 
 
113: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:18 pm
DirtyHand does not play with the lions
but he has entered the maze
the lamb is a scapegoat
DirtyHand knows
So does the Elder
DirtyHand does not associate with the gamblers and criminals, but he’s been to or knows about their raves. He and Paulus know Joren didn’t kill Natalee.

114: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Follow the music
into the maze
the lions know they are being stalked
the gamblers and other Rollers talk
tell the cowboys!
Investigate the raves. Natalee’s real killers know they’re not out of danger yet, because there is no honor among thieves and someone may still squeal. Tell the Americans (FBI)!

115: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:26 pm
The Arawaks will not enter the maze unless the cowboys refuse the peace pipe
Follow the music,
the lions are not tame
DirtyHand knows,
so does the elder
The natives will not investigate or do anything about the raves unless the Americans do not accept the trial. The real killers are ravers, the ‘lions’, and both Dirtyhands and Paulus know this.

116: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:29 pm
Some windows overlooking Babylon have been opened
The cowboys need to find the right path,
but they can’t hear the music.
The Arawaks know
Stupid Cowboys with Arawak Guides
Cowboys don’t read smoke signals,
they must enter the maze!
Shango needs to feed the messengers. The Gods are talking.
Some truths have been revealed, but the Americans need to find the right way to investigate further, but they don’t understand how they should do this. The Americans are useless as long as they rely on local authorities, because the Americans aren’t familiar with Aruba and are being misled. They must investigate the raves!
117: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating
afraid to walk through the maze
why don’t the arawaks ambush the lions?
The cowboys don’t know.
DirtyHand knows, but is afraid of the Arawak Nation
The gods are talking
Natalee went to a ‘rave’ and ended up with a bad crowd. Joren was afraid of some of the people there, and left Natalee with them. Why don’t the Arubans do something about the drug dealers?The Americans don’t know about them. Van Der Straaten knows, but he’s afraid of the consequences for himself.
118: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:48 pm
The Simian was incorrect about the package from the Hague
I told the Simian, but the Simian would not listen
The simian is not a simian, but an austrolopithecus
Delightful banter between Shango and Simian; they were kind of rivals on the boards. Shango apparently told Simian something about his guesses, which Simian ignored.

119: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating
afraid to walk through the maze
why don’t the arawaks ambush the lions?
The cowboys don’t know.
DirtyHand knows, but is afraid of the Arawak Nation
The gods are talking
Natalee went to the rave but ended up with a bad crowd that intended or did her serious harm. Joren fled, afraid to stay. Why don’t the natives bring the killers to justice, because the Americans are on the wrong trail? Van Der Straaten knows, but he is afraid for his reputation.
 

110: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:52 pm
Threadsurfers on other beaches are oblivious to the Maze and the lions
without exposure, the arawaks will deceive the cowboys
they will leave without loot
Most people(outside of Aruba) are unaware of the raves and the people who prey on young girls there. Unless this is exposed, the Arubans will not let the U.S. know about this dark side to the island and will not find Natalee.


111: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:56 pm
Shango is the god of justice
alive in many forms
he who speaks through Oxum through lightning
and himself through thunder
father of the violent dance
diviner of secrets of the seven levels of inferno
bound to truth even as it burns
so that justice may be brought.
I think Shango is either someone on the inside of the investigation- either in the investigation camp or an honest Aruban- who wants the truth to be known for whatever reason. This was probably in response to someone’s question to his or her identity.

112: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:59 pm
Only those who cRave music go into the Maze
Only people who know about the raves and what goes on there go to them; they are hidden and hard to find by accident.

28th
113: Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 12:04 am
The gods of Babylon have orchested the refrain for the Arawak choir
the music which holds the answers lies within the maze
the cowboys will smile sweetly as the chorus sings
backs turned to the maze
never hearing a single note
from the poison song
The Dutch officials have control over what the Arubans will say- this is a reference to the information-controlling committee the officials imposed this past week in my mind. The answers lie within Aruba’s underworld. The Americans will believe anything they’re told unless the whole lie is exposed, and will not think twice about the mazes, never know their evil.

114: Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 12:11 am
All the Arawaks know the Maze which plays the poison songs
All the Arubans know which raves are in ‘the mazes’ (the seedy, dangerous ones)

115: Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 12:14 am
How those innocent young flies enter the trap with honey laden notes
Someone on the blog suggested that raves are by invitation only, and that these lions look for pretty girls to invite and take advantage of. In Natalee’s case, something went wrong and she did not survive as most victims do. See synopsis.
116: Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 12:19 am
Shango must leave to feed the messengers. The gods are talking.
See above; Shango says this a lot, actually.

117: Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation
meet, under cover of delusion.
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.
Tell the cowboys!
Follow the clues to the rave house, where the Dutch and the Aruban underworld meet secretly. The predators who killed Natalee and prey on young girls are here still; ask the gamblers which ones did it. And inform the Americans!

118: Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 12:28 am
Not all lions leave their den
Some of the ravers/ lions live at the house?

119: Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 12:34 am
That which is hidden shan’t be found in the light
The raves are vacant during the day?Or does this again mean you have to know where to look to find these ‘underground’ raves.
120: Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 12:37 am
Yliana and Subdude have both opened windows which look into the heart of babylon
do not stray from your paths
you hold the key in hand
Two bloggers made correct guesses to what Shango said (see thread archives)
We are on the right track figuring this out.



 

121: Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 12:39 am
The threadsurfers are opening the door to babylon
be careful of the lions
DirtyHand does not have them tamed
but he can enter the den
tell the cowboys
We bloggers are slowly revealing the truth about Aruba and the Dutch corruption, but be careful of the ravers and drug lords who aren’t controlled by Van Der Straaten (even though they know him). Inform the Americans (FBI)

122: Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 1:11 am
See Subdude / Iliana 12:34


 

123: Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 1:32 am
For the doubters: You do not need to see a grain of sand in your eye to know it is there
You don’t have to see something plausible to judge it plausible. This is all possible, even if it sounds far-fetched.

124: Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 1:55 am
Find the music
Only David left the den alive
Find the rave. Only Joren left the rave alive; whenever she died (either that night or sometime while captive), Natalee died at the rave house.
125: Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 2:24 am
This Simian is not the Simian. It is a Doppleganger.
The fake Simian showed up again. I’d like to know how Shango could tell!


126: Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 2:27 am
Crypticism leads to tributaries of thought which would not usually leave the MainStream
Shango’s hints are in riddles to make us think for ourselves. This path to the truth cannot be found by ordinary means.

127: Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 2:29 am
Babylon is Falling
The Arawak teepees will be crushed
will they sacrifice the Lamb or the Lion
to make the cowboys smile
Things are beginning to unravel; Aruba will suffer for this. The question is: will they convict the boys or the true murderers to make the Americans happy?I think Shango is saying that enough damage has been done already to make the lions back off and play it cool for awhile.

128: Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 2:39 am
The arawaks must hunt the lions
in the place of darkness
house of secrets
The Arubans must help expose this deceit and bring the murderers to justice.

129: Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 2:45 am
Shango finds it very humorous (and quite fitting) that a Frenchman would assume the moniker of a Primate
Apparently Shango doesn’t like the French. But hey, who does?


130: Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 2:50 am
The babylonian and the shivas did not build castles in the sand
they lost to the lions
dirty hand knows
the elder knows
and so do the arawaks
the cowboys are far from the house of babylon
the maze shall remain dark to all but the arawak nation and the elders
Joren and the Kalpoes did not make up their own stories; they were coached by PVDS because of the threat the lions hold over them. Van Der Straaten knows what is going on; so do the Arubans. The Americans are far from the scene, and this shall not be revealed to them easily.

131: Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys
DirtyHand knows
Simian knows
The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day
Shango said no two times
Is Simian a DirtyHand too
Has the Simian played with the lions
in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes
where the innocent flies are lured?
Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals?
Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno,
not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!
Simian, another blogger, was upset at the Arubans for not coming forward and exposing this. Shango kept telling Simian that the Netherlands (or maybe the Aruban P.M.) would not intervene. Perhaps Shango knows Simian and suspects him of trying to lead this inquiry astray; perhaps he is one of the lions?


132: Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 3:06 am
Information the Simian left for 2 days was incorrect
His lordship brought nothing from the Hague
the simian listens to whisperings of the arawak tongue foolishly thinking he is an insider.
Shango says Simian trusts the Dutch too much and does not carefully sort what he hears from Arubans.



30th
133: Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 1:49 am
All of Shango’s information comes from the higher power, Olorum
Shango has not danced with the lions, nor Arawaks,and does not keep their company
Shango does not know the ravers, and he is not Aruban.
Eyes of god may look from afar with great acuity.
Shango is a seer of some kind, so he says. I doubt it.
The resolution to find Mary lies with the Arawak Nation
Natalee’s body will only be found when the Arubans feel it is safe to reveal it or look for it.
Dirty Hand has bound the Arawak Nation with Babylonian Rope
Van Der Straaten kept pressure on Aruba to keep quiet with help from Dutch officials.
The Lamb and the two Shivas whisper in the dark,
The boys are conspiring among themselves,
while the lions pace silently in the bush.
threatened by the ravers, Natalee’s real killers.
Dirty Hand is the link!
Van Der Straaten must be pinched, hard, and soon!
The lamb, the shivas, the elder whispering, exiting like thieves in the night, clothed with invisible armor
The boys won’t be convicted in the end, and all involved will try to hide from accusations
If Dirty Hand falls, so does Babylon, but too, the Arawak Nation shall suffer.
If van Der Straaten is exposed, the whole affair will be brought to light but Aruba will suffer
Threadsurfers listen!
The lamb shall run anew in virgin fields, cropping sweet grass which should remain untouched.
To the bloggers: if Joren goes free, he will keep his questionable ways
The Lamb has sins, but the lions have sharper teeth.
Joren is not free of guilt, but the lions (the people at the rave that night) murdered Natalee.
A new key must be found to open unknown doors.
The standard investigations will not work through this cover-up
The first concern of the Arawak nation is wampum.
The Arubans are concerned with tourism dollars first
But unseen tides pull babylonian seas through Arawak Moats, bittering the waters.
But unknown people will force Netherlands influence this case and make it hard to discern
DirtyHand and the Lions must see the light of Arawak Day, or forever walk in plentiful fields.
Van Der Straaten and the murderers must be exposed now, or they will never be!
The dead shall eternally sleep if a clamour is not made.
If this isn’t exposed, Natalee’s body will never be found
Lamb and the Elder are stepping stones into the fetid pool of deception.
We can start to unravel this deceit with the help of Paulus and Joran
The rule of the Arawak King is the Final word.
The Prime Minister has the ability to hinder or help the investigation
DirtyHand has fouled the air for all nearby, but the Arawak Nation will claim Babylonian Authority prevents them from hunting Lions, and DirtyHand.
Van Der Straaten’s silence has caused this cover-up, but the Arubans will claim they were silenced by Dutch officials
But the Arawak king controls destiny of all. The Arawak king has DirtyHands and DirtyFeet. If he is to reign anew, he cannot be soiled more.
The P.M. must come clean with everything if he wants to stay the Prime Minister.
The babylonians have ruled the Arawak Nation through deception and stealth, and their charges, the Arawaks, speak now with the same forked tongue, on behalf of their king.
The corrupt officials have kept the Arubans quiet through political power, and so the Arubans lie as well.
The gift the cowboys ask of the king of the Arawak Nation is a mere trifle.
The Americans do not ask much to find out what they want to know.
All ye who sing in the cyber-chorus lower your voices not!
Bloggers, keep people informed of this event!
It has been proven that the lamb, the shivas, and the elders are not the breach in Arawak Armour!
The Kalpoes and Van Der Sloots are not able to break this case alone
Let us hunt Lions, The King, and Dirty Hand.
Let’s find the murderers, expose van Der Straaten, and the corrupt Dutch officials
The lions pace silently in the bush, while the king seeks pleasures with his concubines.
The ravers are just waiting to commit this crime again, if their leader is not caught
Threadsurfers! What is sought is not hidden.
What we are looking for is no mystery.
The Lamb and the elder are not the keystone in the Arch of Corruption.
This scandal goes far beyond the Van Der Sloots.
Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid Arawak King who wishes to blame the babylonians for the behaviour of lowly minions.
Seek van Der Straaten’s guilt and that of the Prime Minister, who try to shift blame elsewhere
If the head of the beast is in plain view it is folly to attack protected flanks.
If you know who the leaders are, don’t waste time with the lackeys
Threadsurfers, DirtyHand is more vulnerable than the Arawak King and your lances should point in his direction.
Work on Van Der Straaten first; he will break easier than the P.M.
He is the weak link, if he tumbles, all fall with him….. The lamb, the shivas, the elder
If he cracks, all will be revealed.
Shango looks from afar but speaks with truth. He does not converse with the Simian, or any other worldly sources, and attempts to bring direction to speculation
Shango communes with the gods; he answers to no mortal
 ---
134: Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 1:58 am
Shango does not fear the Simian
Shango feels the Simian speaks speculatively
desiring to know, but remaining clothed in darkness
Shango does not give Simian any credit, Simian guesses and does not know.

135: Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:04 am
Observe all communications from Shango and judge from their worth….
Look at what Shango has said so far, and judge for yourself its worth.
DirtyHand is the the Keystone!
Van Der Straaten is the key!
The lamb is in their fold, and the shivas.
Joren and the Kalpoes are mere pawns
Threadsurfers, if they cannot out a lamb to manger, how will they deal with lions?
If investigators can’t get the truth out of the boys, how can they convict the real criminals?
DirtyHand is the key and may leave soon to avoid attention from the cowboys and the fort
Van Der Straaten is leaving in mid-July. We’re running out of time!

136: Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:07 am
If the keystone falls, it will crush the lamb, the shivas, and the elder
the noise of the crashing arch shall scare the lions from their den
DirtyHand is the key to All!
Take down Van Der Straaten, and the rest will follow. The fall of the mighty will scare up Natalee’s real killers.
137: Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:11 am
All Secrets are hidden in Plain View
Evidence leading to this scandal and cover-up are not hidden, just not apparent

138: Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:13 am
The Arawaks make the cowboys dance so the smoke signals are lost in the wind
How can one hunt for lions without a local guide?
How can one hunt for lions with fishing gear?
DirtyHand still commands Arawak war parties, confusing outlanders…
Time is the enemy of the cowboys
and friend to the Arawaks, the Babylonians, and the hunted Jungle beasts
The Arubans misled the American investigators. You can’t find the murderers without an honest guide. You won’t find Natalee’s body at sea; the lions are on land, after all. Van Der Straaten still has power over the local authorities. Time is of the essence!   

139: Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:14 am
Shango did not mention a Handicap
That was the fetid Simian
Apparently Simian mentioned being handicapped, and someone got him and Shango confused?
140: Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:18 am
For those who think Shango has danced with the lions
or walked the maze
they have not read diligently
Eyes of God see from afar
If ye have truth, ask not how it was begotten…
Shango says he is not an insider to the drug and underground rave scene. He says to accept the truth and not question his sources.
141: Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:26 am
In your senseless rage you wave your sword recklessly
as such you would sever the limb even of a defender of the faith
If a bird whispers an evil secret, the listener is not the sinner!
Not all messages come from a terrestrial origin.
Believe.
When olorum speaks, lesser gods listen
but do not ask how it is they hear
We are not careful of the truth in an emotional state (maybe referring to Americans), and thus do more harm than good. Someone who knows a dirty secret is not necessarily part of that secret. Again Shango claims to be a spirit or seer, and his information comes from the god Olorum.

142: Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:31 am
Watcher opened a window looking onto Babylon at 2:29.
He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens to the lions den

143: Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:33 am
TK - tributaries by definition stray from the river to leave the ocean
Not sure what to make of this one, or its significance…
144: Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:35 am
How long does a cat hold a mouse before eating it?
This was in response to the question, “Is Natalee still alive?” We have two translations for this, depending on how optimistic one is. Someone said she was, and this referred to a ‘cat and mouse’ game of keeping her hidden versus people trying to find her. I think it means that she is no longer among us, since cats usually kill mice when they get tired of playing with them.
145: Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:36 am
Casanostra is standing at a window looking onto Babylon…
casanostra Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:35 am
“I picked the casanostra as a name after doing much research as to their relationship to the island of Aruba and the drug trade, as well as other things that go along with it. Do some googling and find out for yourself. I think that Natalee is alive and that there are people on the island, and those that pass through the island that no one wants to mess with. There lies the predicament. You have a criminal element more powerful than the authorities and a chess game is being played. I think Joran is being protected, but he is also guilty of something. Not murder, but leading Natalee into something very sinister. I apologize if my speculation is in any way disrespectful to she or her family, but I find this very intriguing and it goes much deeper than what is implied on television.”
This seems to suggest Natale is alive. But I think it actually means that, as described, the drug trade out of South America controls Aruba, not the people or the Dutch. Indeed, the criminals are more powerful than the authorities. How can any justice be done?Incidentally, ‘casanostra’ refers to the Mafia…’it’s the Mob’ or something similar. I think the actual translation is ‘house of night’ or something.
146: Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:39 am
Why would the Arawaks fear a lamb, tiny toothed little beast?
The chieftan would sacrifice the lamb,
but the demons would not leave for such a petty sacrifice
The Lamb knows, but doesn’t rule
Lambs aren’t knigs of the Jungle
The Arubans aren’t afraid of JVDS or his dad; they have no reason to. The P.M. will let Joren get charged and tried and maybe even convicted, but the drug lords will stay around just like always. Joren knows all this, but he is in no position to say anything!
Note: there was a small quote here, but I omitted it because Shango seemed only to be defending his way of giving us these clues!

147: Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:50 am
Always remember that what is unseen is greater than what is seen
There are many lies for each truth.
All has been seen from afar
and whispered by olorum to an earthbound son
I must leave to feed the messengers
The gods are talking
Good Night






My Synopsis:

This is what I think happened the night Natalee disappeared, based on what Shango is saying:

Natalee hooked up with Joren one last night before she heads back home the next day (they apparently had met three days before someplace). They gambled, ate and drank (at Carlos and Charlie’s), and then went off someplace at Joren’s invitation. Now, some back story: about a week ago, someone anonymously approached Fox news and said Joren had a reputation for ‘taking advantage of young ladies’. With that in mind, Joren called his boys the kalpoes to give them a ride to a ‘rave’ he invited Natalee to. Like some number of women before her, Natalee found herself at an as-yet undiscovered location…the house at the end of the road not paved with gold. Here she was given X and date-raped when she passed out. Joren is afraid of some of the people there…island drug dealers, their bodyguards, et cetera…and he gets uncomfortable enough to leave. Perhaps, this was standing order for Joren: pick us up a girl, get your pay, and get the Hell out. Unlike all those other girls before her, though, Natalee died somehow…maybe things got out of hand, maybe she OD’ed, maybe she fell down some stairs or something. At any rate the people at this ‘rave’ suddenly have a dead girl on their hands. These guys have been paying bribes to the police chief Van Der Straaten among others for years to quietly ply their trade, so when they tell him, he has to scramble to keep things hidden. So him, Paulus Van Der Sloot (Joren’s dad and Van Der Straaten’s friend), and his lackeys start stalling the investigation long enough for the body to be disposed of. He goes to Paulus and says, “hey man. You better get your kid and thoe Kalpoes and get a story, because they’re going to be the fall guys here”. No problem; Paulus knows (and maybe helped Van Der Straaten on) the fine points of Dutch investigative procedure and how to totally botch an investigation. So he hammers down an alibi with his boy and the Kalpoes, Van Der Straaten stalls and fucks things up on purpose, hoping that everything will either blow over or die down. You see, the boys won’t be convicted on the shoddy evidence the prosecution will be allowed to find. The real murderers, who are drug lords far more powerful than Paulus and Van Der Straaten, will be safe and their drug trade and other sins kept intact, and the cycle of corruption will continue. And as for natalee’s family, what can they do? They get, “Oh so sorry. We did our best to convict, but the jury says otherwise. Sorry about your daughter, go home now” That is what the officials involved in this crap are hoping for. However, Shango says that if the cowboys (us Americans and certainly Beth Twitty and her camp) refuse to accept the ‘peace offering’ (this farce of an investigation and trial), AND we put enough pressure on our elected reps and get the news media onto this (they should be eating this up by now), then this all will come to light in time. And from what Shango says, that is what it will take for Beth to bring her daughter home. Somebody on that island knows where she is, but is afraid to tell.
Now I should mention that in the addenda is a post missing from what I have above; if you read it at the suggested translation, it indicates that Natalee was sold into prostitution, but she had to be hidden a few days until a safe (that is, secret) way to smuggle her off the island was found. This coincides with the visions that two psychics had, both involved her being hidden away and finally rescued. The Bible Code at http://www.revelation13.net/KingJames2c.html seems to suggest this theory; and I read someplace (possibly the above pages) that Reveleations 12 is about Natalee; she is the woman described therein and the dragon represents evils done to her and that threaten her. That is open to interpretation; it depends on what you believe. Of course, if Natalee is alive still and will be returned to her mother someday, it will not be through lack of searching; the Lord helps those who help themselves.

Let’s do it.




ADDENDA:

Sent by Dallas Also on 07/03/05- his interpretation of the ‘Babylon Gate’ that deals with the white slavery theory. I believe this is omitted from my above list.

Dan, here is my best version of my interpretation of the "key" as referenced in the exchange between Simian and Shango:

Shango:
Simian,why was the key from the Babylons Palace not used to open the Sumerians Door?
Why didn't the Powers that Be (who are mostly the Dutch) get the girl over to Venezuela (the Sumerians Door)? What happened to the normal procedure when a blonde girl gets grabbed?
They have become famished and Eden is beckoning.
The Venezuelans lare hungry for blonde girls and they have buyers in the Middle East (Eden!) for blonde girls.

Shango again (Dan, even though this is only minutes later, it seems to me that Shango had obtained the answer to his question about Eden beckoning):
Simian, his lordship did not bring the expected key.
Natalee was not the type of blonde that we can use, she is too high-profile. She is not the expected type of woman that is useful to us in this business.
The door never existed
So there was never any way we would be taking her as merchandise in our trade business
Eden is distant
We can't successfully send someone all the way over to the Middle East that is getting this much publicity

Simian:
The cowboys have only so much gold. The territory is rough.
Equusearch and the Americans won't stay here looking forever, so maybe the girl can be moved after they give up.
There are many secrets, but the Arawaks are helping.
The Aruban authorities are assisting in keeping the secrets undiscovered.
The palace is open to all, but the palace is a maze to most.
Most will not figure out what's really going on.

Shango:
Simian, his lordship did not bring the key for the Arawaks.
His lordship made the decision to not utilize "the key", that is, not use the normal transportation channel over to Venezuela, for the sake of not risking further damage to Aruba and its economy
So it will remain "cowboys and indians"
The posse was too late
The investigation can only be completed by Americans and the Holloways, because it is too late for the Powerful Dutch or the Drug Lords to quietly remedy the current situation.

Sent to me via IM at the scaredmonkeys discussion forums. This pretty much meshes with what Shango suggested, but it adds a bit of detail to the events of that night:

Na een aantal maanden ontdekten we nog een discotheek in Oranjestad: "Club Visage". Deze supergrote discotheek / poolcentrum staat niet in het centrum maar op een industriegebied net buiten het centrum. http://www.geocities.com/rene_72/aruba942.htm

Translation: After a few months on the island we found another discotheque in Oranjestad. "Club Visage" This real big discotheque/poolcenter isnt in the city, but in an industry area just outside Oranjestad.
This rene also told that it is a place where you can dance till 6 in the morning, they have salsa music and house.

The place burnt down a few years ago ( Light the fires, the gods are talking??) And someone on a forum assumed it would be build up again..I wonder how come they found this place only after a few months??


I think the rave party is somewhere outside, that is why the cowboys need to follow the music, and search at night.. See where the light is..I think it is on this industry area.
And I also do believe the people who work at casino's go there too, after their work is finished..

Did you also notice on the pictures on http://www.assmotion.com there are a few that have a sign...It says Vip Lounge.http://www.assmotion.com/photos%20arubash%202005/imagepages/image8.html and you need a vip card to go in there.

Maybe Natalee was taken inside, and Joran wasn't supposed to join her??
The club visage is outside town, don't know if the road is paved, the Marriott is on the same boulevard. no.101 and Visage was on no.152a. Between the numbers are companies, not normal houses I think.
Didn't the brothers say they left them at the Marriott??








INDEX:

A. Threads where shango speaks:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1190#comments
thread goes from june 26 @  9:57am to july 3 @ 11:31am
shango found from june 26 @ 3:09 until june 27 @ 8:04

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1191#comments
thread goes from june 26 @  2:33pm to june 27 @ 1:44pm
shango starts at 8:25pm

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1192#comments
thread goes from june 27 @  11:56am to 1:54pm
shango starts at 12:28pm

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1193#comments
thread goes from june 27 @ 1:56pm to june 28 @ 10:29am
shango starts at 9:41pm

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1202
thread goes from june 29 @  9:38pm  to july 1 @ 8:33am
shango found from june 30 @1:49am


B. Pictures / Photos

1. Arikok houses (at Arikok National Park I believe. Copyright as noted on photos)

 

 

 


Could these be the ‘houses at the end of the road not paved in gold’ first mentioned in Shango 47:3? Some have suggested that the house so mentioned is actually one of two houses owned by ‘Lorenzo’- a shady local character who owns a car lot and is one of the lions. Since Shango said not all lions leave their dens, I took it to mean the house in question was still inhabited.





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on November 02, 2007, 12:05:05 AM
Thanks Magnolia.  I do indeed have these and am glad you posted them for others to see.  I have them on my old hard drive, which is gone, never to be seen again.  Sigh!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on November 04, 2007, 05:36:56 PM
Maybe someone will come and dance with me...someday...maybe...sigh..

Let's look at this post in bits and pieces...

THE KEY

*Mary=Natalee  I agree, the reference is Natalee.
*The Lamb=Joran  Lamb...scapegoat...all the same.
*Shivas=Kalpoe brothers  Agree
*Dirty Hand=police commissioner Van Der Straaten  Debatable, there are "many diirty hands".   There is also an Arawak Dirty Hand.  Shango only said that Babalu opened a window...he did not say it was indeed the answer.
*The Elder=Paulus Van Der Sloot  Agreed.
*His Lordship=unknown; maybe the Aruban Prime Minister Could this be a judge?  Someone that brings the key?
*Sumerians= maybe American government officials or Jossy Mansur, head of Diario Disagree. Shango and Simian were working out semantics in their references here.  Sumerians and Arawaks can be interchangeable if you believe the Arawaks were the Arubans.
*Babylonians=European (Dutch) influence on Aruba Debatable. Quite possibly the gamblers or the people in power.
*Arawaks=native Arubans Debatable.
*Arawak King=Prime Minister, or possibly the boat with the same name from the mainland that frequents Aruba. Debatable.
*Olorum=supreme being  God?  No, it means something else.
*46th Spirit=a reference to Bifrons, a spirit with the swollen features of a rotting corpse; makes people around him aware of their own mortality. Not sure what the connection is here… Who are the bifrons?  Plural...not just Joran.
*Teepees=dwelling of innocent people/carefree island culture was first suggested, but I think it really means the island’s businesses: casinos, hotels, etc. that would be hurt worst by a drop in tourism  No comment.
*Roll=reference to doing the drug ecstasy; doing X is called ‘rolling’ Several interpretations concerning "roll".   It could be the drug.  Never established that Natalee went to a party to obtain that illustrious drug.  Could mean the act of moving around.  May be a casino reference.
*Keystone=Dirty Hand=the center of corruption, which will expose this crime and other corruption
*The Lions=the truly dangerous people involved in underworld; Natalee’s real killers (or those responsible for her death) Debatable.
*The Maze=location of rave parties/ seedy underworld of the island I have new ideas on this one. 
*Sacrifice=person or people who will take the fall if truth isn't exposed (The Lamb and shivas)  Agreed, but it never happened that way.
*Cowboys=Americans searching for Natalee; her family, EquuSearch, FBI, etc.  Which one?
*Indians= arubans  More semantics.
*Loot=Natalee; some think this means hard evidence of any kind
*Wampum= money, income to Aruba; the economy  Agreed.
*Occam's Razor=medieval principle that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed  It is often the simplest answer. In that case, Shango was wasting his time with the riddles.
*Doppleganger=an invisible shadow-self possessed by every human  Disagree. Irrelevant..just a person that was trying to be Simian or was another Simian. Maybe even Shango himself, in disguise.
*Eden=truth  In Biblical terms, Eden was the place of the downfall...where lies were intertwined with the truth.
*cowboy gods=the real power in the U.S.: FBI, senators, et cetera Agree. For now. 
 

If anyone disagrees, please say so...I want a debate...of some kind.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on November 04, 2007, 09:00:02 PM

Note: Shango says three things frequently enough that I think it more efficient to provide one translation here to use afterward:

I must (go) feed the messengers
Either Shango has sources of his own he has to confer with (my guess), or he is leaking information to the media or elsewhere as well.  Conferring is not the same as giving out info....I take this to mean he is feeding his information to someone....possibly a hint that the person posting the Shango riddles is not actually Shango, but his messenger...I know, that is a stretch...sort of...but you have to think abstractly with Shango...not linear...he rarely ever tells it like it is...just hints. Hmmmm, kind of like  Colombo.

The gods are talking
Refers to ongoing communiqués between the Aruban government, the Netehrlands, the U.S., etc.  I don't think there is any relationship to the U.S. here.  The Dutch refused to cooperate, I think this is a direct reference to the PTB that needed to resolve this, but couldn't due to the bumbling of 4 people.

Light the fires!
The day of charges/trial/conviction are approaching. I agree somewhat for the time being.  If the PTB want this thing to go away, indeed they would want to have someone be found guilty...as we now know...this did not happen. I think Shango fully expected something to happen...it just did not turn out as he predicted.




Okay, I need someone to offer debate here...someday...soon...maybe.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on November 06, 2007, 08:40:05 PM
All has been seen from afar
and whispered by olorum to an earthbound son

when Olorum speaks (to an EARTHBOUND son), lesser gods listen (record)
messengers (of god): ......tapes (& interpretations) are fed
Shango has looked from afar with great acuity (keenness of hearing, sight, INTELLECT)

And who has the Elder SlanderFoot contacted in Babylon?
Hidden whispers, plans for the future.

If a bird whispers an evil secret, the listener is not the sinner!
Not all messages come from a terrestrial origin.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on November 06, 2007, 09:28:05 PM
Colombo are you still around?  I have a question.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on November 06, 2007, 10:04:48 PM
All has been seen from afar
and whispered by olorum to an earthbound son

when Olorum speaks (to an EARTHBOUND son), lesser gods listen (record)
messengers (of god): ......tapes (& interpretations) are fed
Shango has looked from afar with great acuity (keenness of hearing, sight, INTELLECT)

And who has the Elder SlanderFoot contacted in Babylon?
Hidden whispers, plans for the future.

If a bird whispers an evil secret, the listener is not the sinner!
Not all messages come from a terrestrial origin.

Okay...I will take a stab at this one....Information has been heard or captured and recorded by an agency of some type...I could speculate, but I won't.   What happened, or some of it, is already known by those that need to know. Some of this info will be revealed at a later time. The person listening and relaying the message is not the person that told the secrets. All was overheard in some way or recorded as in a satellite transmission or secret covert operation....so how did I do? 

Actually, this goes along with a new theory of mine as to Shango's identity. Thanks, Colombo, for once I enjoyed this one.  :wink:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on November 09, 2007, 11:53:33 AM
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7946/fourthsuspectarrestedmx5.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on November 10, 2007, 02:28:46 PM
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7946/fourthsuspectarrestedmx5.jpg)


Thanks Kermit...so now.  Does that make Paulus the 5th suspect?  We may need to admit that it could be a possibility...otherwise, we better figure out who the 5th person really is...Lorenzo?   I know, I know.  Guido?  GVC?  I'm just saying... :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Vicki on November 14, 2007, 07:41:10 AM
I thk the 5th suspect is papasloot...and IMO I feel Dirty hand is none other than out Frosted Flake eating detective Dennis Jacobs....doesnt participate but knows all.....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on November 14, 2007, 09:09:37 PM
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7946/fourthsuspectarrestedmx5.jpg)


Thanks Kermit...so now.  Does that make Paulus the 5th suspect?  We may need to admit that it could be a possibility...otherwise, we better figure out who the 5th person really is...Lorenzo?   I know, I know.  Guido?  GVC?  I'm just saying... :roll:

crimesolver
06-17-2005, 06:15 PM
There is a possible fifth suspect to be arrested. He is also around the same age as the fourth suspect who was just arrested. The fifth suspect has a parent who committed suicide, and the possible suspect is said to have had some emotional issues since that time. The fourth suspect who was arrested today, is 26 and is divorced with a two year old child. His father is also a high ranking official in Aruban government



http://www.rjames.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-8.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on November 16, 2007, 12:00:11 AM
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7946/fourthsuspectarrestedmx5.jpg)


Thanks Kermit...so now.  Does that make Paulus the 5th suspect?  We may need to admit that it could be a possibility...otherwise, we better figure out who the 5th person really is...Lorenzo?   I know, I know.  Guido?  GVC?  I'm just saying... :roll:

crimesolver
06-17-2005, 06:15 PM
There is a possible fifth suspect to be arrested. He is also around the same age as the fourth suspect who was just arrested. The fifth suspect has a parent who committed suicide, and the possible suspect is said to have had some emotional issues since that time. The fourth suspect who was arrested today, is 26 and is divorced with a two year old child. His father is also a high ranking official in Aruban government



http://www.rjames.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-8.html

This info doesn't fit any one person... it is a combination of two suspects..well sort of...Lorenzo (which a lot think isn't really a suspect at all) didn't have any kids as far as I know...and he isn't divorced...that would be Steve Croes.   Lorenzo was reported to have emotional issues and his father did commit suicide...but his father isn't a high ranking Aruban official...Steve Croes didn't have a father that committed suicide and I don't think he also has a father that is a high ranking official..unless Paulus is father to both of these guys...so I don't think this report is valid.  But then again what do I know?  I still can't decide on Shango's identity...well not publicly at least.   :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: memphis on December 06, 2007, 06:45:46 PM
Lala's, IMO you nailed [the] Shangos' identity last night. Everything seems to fit nicely in place. Nice job!

Now, I'm not following on Simian. Help me out?  :D

As I said, I do love to hear your interpretations.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 07, 2007, 10:33:08 AM
Lala's, IMO you nailed [the] Shangos' identity last night. Everything seems to fit nicely in place. Nice job!

Now, I'm not following on Simian. Help me out?  :D

As I said, I do love to hear your interpretations.

Simian was most likely ALE or a person in or associated with the police.  Seems he/she knew about things that existed in the PV's.  I think Klaas and Grande ( if I have this wrong, I apologize) determined with some certainty that Simian was Clyde Burke.  I think Simian could have been any one of those in ALE that were taking statements at the time.  What I really want to know is who is the 5th suspect.  I had this revelation last night about that.  If anyone wants to hear?  It puts Paulus right in the mix as the 5th suspect, but I am still thinking about it all right now.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: pdh3 on December 07, 2007, 12:00:06 PM
I'd love to hear your thoughts Lala's.
I don't post in this area much, but I do read here, and I think you have some really sound theories.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 07, 2007, 12:00:37 PM
Merkus
I have seen you ask about Shango and Simian the last few days...Let me see if I can help a little.  First of all, I am no expert at all in this stuff...there have been others that were much more adept at deciphering than I have been.

Now, to Simian.  Simian was a Front Page poster that began posting early in June. This poster left messages that seemed to contain some information that could have been connected with this case at the time...the search for his/her identity has been ongoing ever since some of the things they said coincided with evidence presented in some of the witnesses/suspects statements.  This is an entire thread with the Simian stuff in it...If I can figure out how to link it here I will do so.

Shango showed up on the scene a few days later, possibly to counteract Simian.  Shango spoke in riddles that used imagery from Marvel comics as well as some Santeria imagery as well.  Most of Shango is very cryptic but you should read it and see for yourself.  The search for Shango has been even more intense.  Monkeys have tried to trace IP addys and everything.  Other websites have been searched trying to locate this person.  I have even tried calling him out. 

There are many, many theories on the indentity of Shango.  Not everyone thinks Shango knew anything.  I think he/she only knew of the corruption and underworld dealings of Aruba.  Shango wants to distance Joran from the crimes against Natalee, it is about the only thing you can determine with any certainty in all of this.  Doesn't mean it is not significant, it's just the way it is.   

I am a little pressed for time right now, but I will let you read their stuff and then if you wish we can tango (that's Shango speak for discussing the riddles).

Simian link
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1194.0

Shango link
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=281.0


There is another poster Merian Ernest. Check it out also.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=223.0


If I don't have this right maybe Klaas will help me out.  :wink:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sirensong on December 10, 2007, 12:17:28 AM
I have always thought "Mary that wasn't a virgin"  was Stef Loco, not Natalee.

Just a thought I needed to put out there. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 10, 2007, 11:35:24 AM
Lala's...I want to hear!!!! Even though I so want the 5th suspect to be Freddy!!!!

Any thoughts on how Smid/Wit would fit in with dirtyhand/Dirty Hand?

Lala's...I'm not very good at this,but alway enjoyed reading it all. Miss Eleye and Columbo, they had me running all over the web back then! :lol:




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 10, 2007, 04:05:24 PM
Lala's...I want to hear!!!! Even though I so want the 5th suspect to be Freddy!!!!

Any thoughts on how Smid/Wit would fit in with dirtyhand/Dirty Hand?

Lala's...I'm not very good at this,but alway enjoyed reading it all. Miss Eleye and Columbo, they had me running all over the web back then! :lol:




Patience please.  I am working on your Freddy theory.  I will try to do more later. I will tell you this...Freddy fits some of the criteria and maybe even all...I just need to connect the dots.

Do you know of any contact that Freddy had with Natalee prior to the night of May 29?  That is one of the sticking points...I have yet to find anyone that claims he met Natalee "earlier" in the week. TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 10, 2007, 05:04:40 PM
Wasn't Freddy a Bartender?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 10, 2007, 08:16:19 PM
Wasn't Freddy a Bartender?

It would be interesting to know if Natalee frequented the bar he was working.  I thought it was that Choose a Name bar or something like that.  Would need to know his shift hours and such.  We need to determine if he could have been in contact with Natalee at any time.  Thing is to make him viable, he would have had to spend some time with her not just 5 minutes pouring her a drink.

Also, we need to determine if he was attending a party or was he giving the party.  The distinction is important.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Nut44x4 on December 11, 2007, 07:24:21 AM
Judges HAND down rulings. All throughout this case, in the opinion of most, the rulings HANDED down are wrong and go against what needs to be done!
DIRTY HAND !! JUDGE SMID is Dirty Hand ...or his buddy Wit.  :cool:


~~~~~~~~
I posted something to this effect on  Natalee Case Discussion #703 12/8/2007 post#55


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Pita on December 11, 2007, 07:27:47 AM
Wasn't Freddy a Bartender?

It would be interesting to know if Natalee frequented the bar he was working.  I thought it was that Choose a Name bar or something like that.  Would need to know his shift hours and such.  We need to determine if he could have been in contact with Natalee at any time.  Thing is to make him viable, he would have had to spend some time with her not just 5 minutes pouring her a drink.

Also, we need to determine if he was attending a party or was he giving the party.  The distinction is important.

Freddy was/is a bartender in Champions Sports Bar at the Marriott Resort.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 11, 2007, 07:53:37 AM
I thought Freddy was somewhere else first, like Club Bahai? There was alot of discussion on the board about this. Klaas had a photo of him at Champions IIRC. Thanks Pita, thought Marriott, but couldn't remember Champions.

Choose-a-name...Pitbull and where Deepak allegedly stopped after C&Cs,burned down.

Lala's...Nut posted top of page 45 about Koen and his alibi. Koen is also mentioned a little differently, ie Sander...brother of Koen in the Discovery Log Timeline. Also recall something about Freddy and his Dad meeting at the Sloots and Freddy's Dad walking out on the meeting. Do not know if this had anything to do with Paulus geting Freddy a lawyer.

I think it's in the Mirian Ernest link about was 'the hand placed there'. I recall seeing the entire picture and it looked real to me.

Nut...something in there about 'frames on the wall' again I think Merian Ernest,reminded me of the judges too. Will go back later and see if I can find both. Need to look at all that dirty hand/Dirty Hand stuff again!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 11, 2007, 11:46:46 AM
Hold on Mum...I can't do more than one at a time..I get too confused.  I want to explore the Freddy angle to it's end.  Check out this and see what fits. My answers in red...to be the 5th suspect they all have to fit...according to Simian..the person with ALE connections.

In order to be the 5th suspect you have to meet these criteria:

1. The 5th suspect was at a party of some kind. YES
2. He was the HOST of this party.Don't know if he hosted it.  Where was this party?
3. The people at this party established his alibi for him saying he never left. According to the timeline documents...YES.  It was two girls.
4. The people that provided the alibi are the "others". Don't know what "others" means?  Anyone?
5. He has some contact with Natalee a few days before. Don't know.
6. The alibi worked for him.  Walked away from the porn video charges. YES.
7. He met Natalee first before Joran did. Don't know.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.


Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:55 pm
He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:01 pm
The first guy she met has all the motive. The second guy is scared sh*tless in a cell.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Nut44x4 on December 11, 2007, 12:18:32 PM
MUM.......

Forked tongues with framed reputations on their walls.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Nut44x4 on December 11, 2007, 12:20:15 PM
IMO Dennis Jacobs doesn't have brains enough to be Dirty Hand nor does he have the 'status'. He is a nobody compared to the many higher ups in this mess.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: BlueKYGirl on December 11, 2007, 12:29:56 PM
I always thought the 5th suspect was Lorenzo, as he was known to throw parties at his house and there were lots of rumors at the beginning that Natalee had been there. I also thought the 5th suspect referred to the 5th arrest, and there was some debate about whether the 5th person to be questioned was Lorenzo or Paulus.

There are people who are much more schooled on Codetalkers than I am, though, so maybe there's a reason why it can't be Lorenzo. I don't know if there's any evidence that he and Natalee met earlier in the week. Frankly he seems a little sleazy to me (and too old for Natalee)--not someone she'd go after. She seems like the type who would go for nice, clean-cut boys her own age--or at least ones that seemed nice and clean-cut.

But do we have any concrete reason to believe that the 5th suspect is NOT Lorenzo?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 11, 2007, 01:54:10 PM
I'm digesting all that Lala's and don't want to confuse but found this from when Freddie was arrested with the Kalpoes, August 2005. Remember A.B arrested with GVC for 6 hours the following April.

Police also arrested another man; a friend and neighbor of lead suspect Joran van der Sloot, Freddie Aaron Batiz (ph). 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 11, 2007, 02:06:33 PM
Nut that was one and another about the elder - Paulus - knew his way around the palace corridors. Halls of Justice, maybe.


BlueKyGirl...we looked at the discoverylog timeline on Saturday and it appears that from 6/17 to 6/24, I think, that Freddy may not have been only a witness. The girls Lalas referred to are listed during that time as friends of van der Sloot/Arambatziz. Whereas before Freddie was listed as a friend of Jorans'. It appears the way it is listed that Freddie, to me anyway, was also a suspect. 'One witness is not a witness.'

Lala's...be back later tonight to read. I read better at night.LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 11, 2007, 02:26:52 PM
Recall something about a family reunion and Freddie's brother was discussed a long time ago here. Freddie's Dad left the meeting with the van der Sloots. Could his Dad be such a strong alibi? Someone his Dad knew?

LOL...confusing myself now...spell Freddy and then Freddie!!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 11, 2007, 03:21:07 PM
Lala's...Found this at the judicial inc site under accomplices


In this interview Jossy Mansur confirms Freddie Arambatzis-Zedan is now being held in prison. Mansur explains that he takes sexual pictures of “unsuspecting” girls and then sells it. The girls are apparently aware and okay with the picture taking, however not with the distribution of them. No offense but I think if you allow someone to take a picture of you, especially one that claims to be “Locoman Pimp”, you should be well aware of his intent. Mansur says this guy was held in the beginning of the investigation and obviously the media was not made aware of this. Jossy says he is probably being held because of a false alibi for Joran van der Sloot he initially gave police.

Somebody needs to ask Jossy about this!!!
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: BlueKYGirl on December 11, 2007, 03:23:05 PM
BlueKyGirl...we looked at the discoverylog timeline on Saturday and it appears that from 6/17 to 6/24, I think, that Freddy may not have been only a witness. The girls Lalas referred to are listed during that time as friends of van der Sloot/Arambatziz. Whereas before Freddie was listed as a friend of Jorans'. It appears the way it is listed that Freddie, to me anyway, was also a suspect. 'One witness is not a witness.'


So if Freddy was in fact classified as a suspect, you're saying he'd be the 5th one and the person these clues are referring to. If only Shango would come back and clarify everything for us!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: BlueKYGirl on December 11, 2007, 03:27:47 PM
Lala's...Found this at the judicial inc site under accomplices


In this interview Jossy Mansur confirms Freddie Arambatzis-Zedan is now being held in prison. Mansur explains that he takes sexual pictures of “unsuspecting” girls and then sells it. The girls are apparently aware and okay with the picture taking, however not with the distribution of them. No offense but I think if you allow someone to take a picture of you, especially one that claims to be “Locoman Pimp”, you should be well aware of his intent. Mansur says this guy was held in the beginning of the investigation and obviously the media was not made aware of this. Jossy says he is probably being held because of a false alibi for Joran van der Sloot he initially gave police.

Somebody needs to ask Jossy about this!!!
 


Sometimes I get all the pimps mixed up. Was Freddy Joran's best friend, the one that Deepak said knew the truth?

I seem to confuse Freddy and Guido most of all.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Pita on December 11, 2007, 03:46:01 PM
Lala's...Found this at the judicial inc site under accomplices


In this interview Jossy Mansur confirms Freddie Arambatzis-Zedan is now being held in prison. Mansur explains that he takes sexual pictures of “unsuspecting” girls and then sells it. The girls are apparently aware and okay with the picture taking, however not with the distribution of them. No offense but I think if you allow someone to take a picture of you, especially one that claims to be “Locoman Pimp”, you should be well aware of his intent. Mansur says this guy was held in the beginning of the investigation and obviously the media was not made aware of this. Jossy says he is probably being held because of a false alibi for Joran van der Sloot he initially gave police.

Somebody needs to ask Jossy about this!!!
 


Sometimes I get all the pimps mixed up. Was Freddy Joran's best friend, the one that Deepak said knew the truth?

I seem to confuse Freddy and Guido most of all.

Yes, it was Freddy.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 11, 2007, 04:04:17 PM
IMO Dennis Jacobs doesn't have brains enough to be Dirty Hand nor does he have the 'status'. He is a nobody compared to the many higher ups in this mess.

Many dirty hands...for many years...



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 11, 2007, 04:07:08 PM
Okay, now we are getting somewhere.  Thanks guys for all the help.

Now, help me establish that Freddy was the HOST of the party and that he actually met Natalee a few days before Joran at the casino.  Simian says it was at the casino and then Joran comes into the picture.  Freddy has to meet all the criteria to be 5th suspect.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 11, 2007, 04:12:17 PM
I'm digesting all that Lala's and don't want to confuse but found this from when Freddie was arrested with the Kalpoes, August 2005. Remember A.B arrested with GVC for 6 hours the following April.

Police also arrested another man; a friend and neighbor of lead suspect Joran van der Sloot, Freddie Aaron Batiz (ph). 

Is there anything in the Dr Phil stuff that fits GVC and Freddy in the same date? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 11, 2007, 04:21:23 PM
I always thought the 5th suspect was Lorenzo, as he was known to throw parties at his house and there were lots of rumors at the beginning that Natalee had been there. I also thought the 5th suspect referred to the 5th arrest, and there was some debate about whether the 5th person to be questioned was Lorenzo or Paulus.

There are people who are much more schooled on Codetalkers than I am, though, so maybe there's a reason why it can't be Lorenzo. I don't know if there's any evidence that he and Natalee met earlier in the week. Frankly he seems a little sleazy to me (and too old for Natalee)--not someone she'd go after. She seems like the type who would go for nice, clean-cut boys her own age--or at least ones that seemed nice and clean-cut.

But do we have any concrete reason to believe that the 5th suspect is NOT Lorenzo?

In order to be the 5th suspect you have to meet these criteria:

1. The 5th suspect was at a party of some kind.
2. He was the HOST of this party.
3. The people at this party established his alibi for him saying he never left.
4. The people that provided the alibi are the "others".
5. He has some contact with Natalee a few days before.
6. The alibi worked for him.
7. He met Natalee first before Joran did.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 11, 2007, 04:30:24 PM
and lest there be doubters as to what I am talking about...there always is.. :roll:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.


Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:55 pm
He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:01 pm
The first guy she met has all the motive. The second guy is scared sh*tless in a cell.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 11, 2007, 04:33:42 PM
Whatley's FBI statement page 2 Important Case Documents. She and Natalee went to the bar next door - the Marriott. Sorry got to run!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on December 11, 2007, 04:46:37 PM
Whatley's FBI statement page 2 Important Case Documents. She and Natalee went to the bar next door - the Marriott. Sorry got to run!

Interesting...If you line up the hotels going north to south they would be:

Marriott Resort
Marriott Ocean Club
Holiday Inn Sunspree Resort and Casino
Playa Linda Beach Resort

If Freddy worked at the Marriott he could have met the girls before Joran because of the proximity of the two hotels.

Also, if I understood correctly, Joran's gambling friend, Andre, lived near the Marriott.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 11, 2007, 06:15:21 PM
Whatley's FBI statement page 2 Important Case Documents. She and Natalee went to the bar next door - the Marriott. Sorry got to run!

So the question now would be...did Freddy do more than just pour a drink for Natalee?  Could he have paid a little extra attention to her?  Was he the older man that was sen to be talking with Natalee at lunch one day?  Can you get lunch in the place where Freddy worked? Did his shift coincide with that time?  Does anyone have any idea? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Sam on December 11, 2007, 08:29:41 PM
I always thought the 5th suspect was Lorenzo, as he was known to throw parties at his house and there were lots of rumors at the beginning that Natalee had been there. I also thought the 5th suspect referred to the 5th arrest, and there was some debate about whether the 5th person to be questioned was Lorenzo or Paulus.

There are people who are much more schooled on Codetalkers than I am, though, so maybe there's a reason why it can't be Lorenzo. I don't know if there's any evidence that he and Natalee met earlier in the week. Frankly he seems a little sleazy to me (and too old for Natalee)--not someone she'd go after. She seems like the type who would go for nice, clean-cut boys her own age--or at least ones that seemed nice and clean-cut.

But do we have any concrete reason to believe that the 5th suspect is NOT Lorenzo?

I have no idea why but I have always believed she had met Lorenzo earlier in the week. I so wish we had access to all of Natalees classmates statements. It is also possible that he looked clean cut to her at the time.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 11, 2007, 09:47:27 PM
MuminOhio please email me at cindoal@yahoo.com. I think you might be interested in some other stuff I have too. Too lengthy to discuss here.  If you find anything you want to share here then that is okay too. Thanks.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 11, 2007, 09:56:19 PM
Lorenzo..the elusive recluse of Aruba.  He was the subject of many FP comments early on...never have been able to connect him to anything.  He was rumored to have the parties..the really big parties with all the good drugs, I guess.  Then again if you are the local known drug supplier of all things recreational in the drug category...would you not save the best for your parties?  I think so.  He was probably just a peripheral player.  I am working on a theory about him being the 5th suspect.  So far I have been less able to make him fit than Freddy.  Paulus will be next. Any more people anyone thinks could be the 5th suspect?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: BlueKYGirl on December 11, 2007, 10:43:00 PM
I have no idea why but I have always believed she had met Lorenzo earlier in the week. I so wish we had access to all of Natalees classmates statements. It is also possible that he looked clean cut to her at the time.

I've always thought that, too, but I'm open to other theories. Lorenzo could fit the profile of an older man talking to Natalee earlier in the week, depending on the definition of "older."

Do we know who identified this person as "older"? I realize that Lorenzo was probably 28 or 29 at the time, which doesn't seem "older" to most of us (we're more inclined to think of Paulus), but to Natalee's peers he would have seemed older. I guess older is in the eye of the beholder--and when you're 17 years old, almost everyone is older.

Is Freddy around the same age as Joran and Natalee, or is he slightly older?

Is it possible that Lorenzo and Natalee met at lunch (as witnessed by someone who saw her talking with an "older" man), and he was the one who was interested? I know the 5th suspect was referred to as "the boyfriend from earlier in the week." Maybe he wasn't so much of a boyfriend as he was a guy who was interested in her. This could account for the sleaze factor...I don't know Natalee, but she strikes me as the type of girl who would be nice to anyone, but could see through Lorenzo's particular brand of sleaze. (I think this because that's exactly the type of girl I was).

It's all conjecture...just trying to throw out some possibilities.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 12, 2007, 09:01:05 AM
Lala's.....where can I find the Shango/Simian posts, the ones you have said to read in context. Are they in the front page archives?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 12, 2007, 09:04:52 AM
Sorry...hit post before I thanked you in advance!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 12, 2007, 11:00:09 AM
I'm digesting all that Lala's and don't want to confuse but found this from when Freddie was arrested with the Kalpoes, August 2005. Remember A.B arrested with GVC for 6 hours the following April.

Police also arrested another man; a friend and neighbor of lead suspect Joran van der Sloot, Freddie Aaron Batiz (ph). 

Is there anything in the Dr Phil stuff that fits GVC and Freddy in the same date? TIA


Sorry..forgot to answer...only thing I see in there about GVC is the arrest date and nothing about Freddy around that time.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 12, 2007, 11:14:27 AM
All,

Appreciate your challenges, but my post was serious and inducing you a LOL is actually an unexpected side-effect  8)). P.S. FierlJepper is a national Dutch sport and concerns jumping over a ditch (= "sloot" in Dutch ... got it?).

Just read the few Simian quotes I summarized below from the dates that he wasn't that cryptic yet and tell me what you think. To me it's pretty obvious that he already in the beginning developed the theory that the jealous first boyfriend of Natalee murdered her and that they used J2K as the scape goats (how crappy that idea might sound, it's just what's in his head). This boy isn't very "fresh" either since he apparently has killed his own dogs and harassed some of his class mates. A few student friends covered up for him and told the police that he was with them at a party all night. His dad or someone else who is very influencial in the US helped in the cover-up and removed the body from the Island. It could have gone up very high up in the US to make a deal with Aruba to keep quiet about this since otherwise the US would...

How realistic this conspiracy story is, is less relevant. Shango also poses the rethoric question of why Joran would have been made so afraid in jail (via his father?) that he kept his mouth shut ('and bit his tongue'). I'd recommend you to read their conversation again with this story in mind, it seem to fit the cryptical stuff very well. Not running away from any critical comment.  :-D

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 2:59 pm
There’s not even a trace of her. At this point I am inclined to believe in a theory that has been going around on the island, but that I find difficult to post here.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 3:11 pm
What Countrymoon is saying is true. In Aruba we wonder how come WE do not get a chance to interrogate some chaperone or the group of kids that were swimming in front of the Holiday Inn until 6 in the morning.
The FBI has them quiet. The FBI is factfinding. The plan was outrageous.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:50 pm
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.
Simian Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
June 22nd, 2005 at 5:38 pm
Checkme…check this…and please recheck:
Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:55 pm
He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:01 pm
The first guy she met has all the motive. The second guy is scared sh*tless in a cell.
I have heard from Americans living in Aruba and and they think something completely different.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:04 pm
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was “there whole time”.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 10:34 am
He’s too afraid to confess.
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 10:36 am
The boy was picked up at 23:00 on Sunday at Mickey D’s. Sneaked out later. Was on time for school. Don’t mix things up.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 10:50 am
He’s afraid of the real killer. He has no way out.
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:03 am
1. No body; no crime.
2. A grown woman gone missing.
3. Één getuige is géén getuige. (One witness is no witness).
4. No suspect is allowed to testify against himself.
5. A confession will be thrown out of court if there is no evidence.

ONE OF THE WITNESSES IS NO WITNESS, HE IS A PERPETRATORSimian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:06 am
The important “others” are the ones that supported the alibi.
No one has openly said there is no hope. Three cadaver dogs on the way. Sonar equipment to look for a body in as deep as 300 meters of water.
Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:37 pm
It’s horrible. He is a sociopath.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:44 pm
Killing his own dogs. Dumping them is the reservoir. Harassing his schoolmates.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not.
crs Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:17 pm
Sim - when you speak of this boy I think everyone thinks you are talking about Joran but your not are you - you are talking about this other individual.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Of whom is the young Babylonian afraid?
Why won’t he talk? 


Lala's...crs June 24th. Who was crs? Does this mean anything? Was Simian talking about someone else? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 12, 2007, 11:17:21 AM
Mum, Did you email me?  I think I can help you with what you need to read.  I have it saved on my computer so I will need to send it to via email for now.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 12, 2007, 11:22:31 AM
Mum, Did you email me?  I think I can help you with what you need to read.  I have it saved on my computer so I will need to send it to via email for now.

Lala's sent one a while ago,10.22AM, high priority. Did you not get it? hughes.net



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 12, 2007, 11:27:52 AM
Never mind...I found you...check your email in a few.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 12, 2007, 11:28:28 AM
Joran's 8/08/05 statement.  Can be read in Dutch.

The suspect has represented that he has explained that he and the missing girl walked a bit. And that a declaration is there of someone who has seen the car of Deepak Kalpoe on, some hundreds of meters away from the fisherman’s hut.  He is asked for the logic of and an other one and is asked if he can explain why he then with the other boys who were place. (? Not sure what this paragraph is trying to say)

He was informed once again that there are direct friends that have explained that he has crapped on friends and asked them to lie about sexual activities with a girlfriend of his friends. These boys say that he takes them always in the maling (?) and manipulates.
He was faced once again with the declaration of the girl Martina, who was given something to drink, offered at the sexual community with him and as a result of which her lips tingled.The suspect did not react.


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=385.0


I went to the Dutch version and it clearly mentions Martina’s name, do not see Freddy’s name in that version. But Ramm’s translation says a girlfriend of one of his friends, no mention of the name Martina. Now I have questions about whether it is Freddy’s relatives or people close to Freddy.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 13, 2007, 11:53:27 AM
I have always wondered if we got the Gottenbos family gathering confused with Freddy's alibi.  Gottenbos at a family party in Florida...doesn't make sense since Sander would be left out, but who knows how that goes vs Freddy hosting a little get together at his place.  Did he have a separate apartment like Joran.  Given he is older, I would think so.  Maybe Freddy's family lives around the corner from the Sloots and Freddy lives elsewhere.  Anyone have any ideas?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 14, 2007, 12:14:01 PM
I have always wondered if we got the Gottenbos family gathering confused with Freddy's alibi.  Gottenbos at a family party in Florida...doesn't make sense since Sander would be left out, but who knows how that goes vs Freddy hosting a little get together at his place.  Did he have a separate apartment like Joran.  Given he is older, I would think so.  Maybe Freddy's family lives around the corner from the Sloots and Freddy lives elsewhere.  Anyone have any ideas?

I thought I recalled Koen being at a friend's party and that Freddy had the family reunion. Also recalling Melody saying Freddy was supposed to stay at the van der Sloots. Have always wondered about that. Think there is a picture around of the back of Freddy's house, so will go and see if I can find it. I guess if we knew where Koen, Freddy, Val and Sebastian really were that night the picture would be a whole lot clearer.
Thanks :wink:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 14, 2007, 12:37:39 PM
What color car did Freddy drive?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 14, 2007, 12:50:40 PM
What color car did Freddy drive?

There's a grey/silver one in the picture of the back of the house. I was just looking at it over in the pictures/maps in the Important Case Documents. Are we looking for white or silver. Guido's was white-the new one he sold before he rushed off.
Jaime's was green.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 19, 2007, 10:34:57 AM
Thought this may make things a little clearer concerning our 5th suspect. Of course I could be wrong, and it may be LVR, but from what I can tell he was not even interviewed until well after Paulus was arrested.



With Tyler’s post from the other night about mid-June 2005, in mind  and remembering the happenings in Aruba on June 10th and 11th, I found it very interesting that Satish is conspicuous by the absence of  his statements from 6/12 until 6/18.

6/11  statement
6/17  Judge Wit-I presume court appearance for another 8 days
6/18 16.10 statement
6/18  17.40 – face to face Steve Croes
6/18  17.50 – face to face Joran

6/12 to 6/18
Freddy – 4 statements
Koen – 2 statements
Sander – 2 statements
Jaime – 1 statement
Paulus – 1 statement
Steve Croes – 2 statements
Florencia Metz – 2 statements
Deepak – 5 statements and face to face with Joran
Joran – 5 statements and assume the above face to face. Actually 2 – one with Satish and one with Deepak.  Interesting that there is a 7 page statement at 17.45 on 6/18, which is 5 minutes before the face to face with Satish.

Guido had already been questioned, the last time being the notice about leaving Aruba, June 7th.

Some observations:
 Satish mentions Steve Croes in his 6/11 statement and Croes was not questioned until 6/15. Deepak mentions Paulus in his addendum of 6/11 and Paulus is not questioned until 6/14.

From K2 statements of 6/11: Satish said Deepak talked to someone he(Satish) didn’t know on arrival at C&Cs. Deepak said Joran bought someone he(Deepak) didn’t know a drink on arrival at C&Cs. Deepak says Satish was driving. Satish says Deepak was driving. Both said big, long-legged Joran was in the back seat!

Not one of the above, other than Joran and Deepak had been questioned before the 12th. There are 7, 8 and 14 page statements from Joran and Deepak during this time. No questions for Satish after June 11th? Not until June 18th. 









Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 19, 2007, 10:56:11 AM
Candidates for 5th suspect:

Freddy
Lorenzo
Paulus

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:55 pm
He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:01 pm
The first guy she met has all the motive. The second guy is scared sh*tless in a cell.
I have heard from Americans living in Aruba and and they think something completely different.






So which one fits the best? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 19, 2007, 11:24:10 AM
Candidates for 5th suspect:

Freddy
Lorenzo
Paulus

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:55 pm
He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:01 pm
The first guy she met has all the motive. The second guy is scared sh*tless in a cell.
I have heard from Americans living in Aruba and and they think something completely different.






So which one fits the best? 


Not Paulus, no way. though he may have been hosting a party!

Lorenzo may fit this best, only because one of the Max' was his alibi. But if we look at other posts referring to the hand in the photo it appears that Freddy fits.

Sure would like to know what was said between Lorenzo and the Judge when he was detained recently. Had started to think LVR was a red herring, until I started reading all this again.

I wonder with Freddy working next door to the HI how much contact he had with the MB'ers? He certainly would know when the groups arrived. Have read conflicting reports as to when Joran actually met the group. Some said that evening, some said he'd been hanging around for days.

The two 302s we have really don't give us enough on Natalee's whereabouts earlier in the week, other than C&Cs. If they, Natalee and the boyfriends 1 and 2, met at a casino, it would have to be either the HI or the Marriott I believe. Haven't seen anything to say that they went anywhere else other than the boat excursion on Saturday.

Still have a lot of reading to do and will keep this all in mind.





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 19, 2007, 11:51:11 AM
This one has Freddy written all over it.

187.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
He had to be let go.
Posted Jun 22, 5:16 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Beth Twitty and the Van der Sloots' Meet” | View Post


Statement from Freddy on 6/17 - to me his status is questionable from this time - and then no more statements until 6/28, coincidentally the same date as Lorenzo's statemnt. Freddy no longer appears to be a suspect on the Dr Phil listing. Simian says above: He had to be let go.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 19, 2007, 02:32:11 PM
Lala's.....came across something yesterday which reminded me of the music man wasn't on the bill. Singing cards etc. Had always thought this referred to Steve Croes, but now I am not so sure. Will have to go and find the Shango/Simian posts tonight or in the morning and see how it fits.





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 19, 2007, 03:13:35 PM
This one has Freddy written all over it.

187.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
He had to be let go.
Posted Jun 22, 5:16 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Beth Twitty and the Van der Sloots' Meet” | View Post


Statement from Freddy on 6/17 - to me his status is questionable from this time - and then no more statements until 6/28, coincidentally the same date as Lorenzo's statemnt. Freddy no longer appears to be a suspect on the Dr Phil listing. Simian says above: He had to be let go.


And what date was Freddy arrested?  What date did they let Paulus go?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 19, 2007, 04:40:25 PM
This one has Freddy written all over it.

187.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
He had to be let go.
Posted Jun 22, 5:16 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Beth Twitty and the Van der Sloots' Meet” | View Post


Statement from Freddy on 6/17 - to me his status is questionable from this time - and then no more statements until 6/28, coincidentally the same date as Lorenzo's statemnt. Freddy no longer appears to be a suspect on the Dr Phil listing. Simian says above: He had to be let go.


And what date was Freddy arrested?  What date did they let Paulus go?


Paulus arrested 6/22 and released 6/26. Freddy became a suspect some time after 6/17 and before 6/22. Will have to go back and see if there any clues around this time. Simian's post was 6/22 and he appeared to post in real time around this time. He says ahead of time, but tells of Joran not talking and the car tapes close to the time they happened. For him to be posting about Paulus' release on the day he was arrested just does not make any sense.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 19, 2007, 11:44:25 PM
This one has Freddy written all over it.

187.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
He had to be let go.
Posted Jun 22, 5:16 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Beth Twitty and the Van der Sloots' Meet” | View Post


Statement from Freddy on 6/17 - to me his status is questionable from this time - and then no more statements until 6/28, coincidentally the same date as Lorenzo's statemnt. Freddy no longer appears to be a suspect on the Dr Phil listing. Simian says above: He had to be let go.


And what date was Freddy arrested?  What date did they let Paulus go?


Paulus arrested 6/22 and released 6/26. Freddy became a suspect some time after 6/17 and before 6/22. Will have to go back and see if there any clues around this time. Simian's post was 6/22 and he appeared to post in real time around this time. He says ahead of time, but tells of Joran not talking and the car tapes close to the time they happened. For him to be posting about Paulus' release on the day he was arrested just does not make any sense.

And when was Lorenzo arrested?  He was the person they were talking about after Steve Croes was arrested the day before.  I keep forgetting those dates. I think Steve Croes was brought in on the 15th and the next day Lorenzo was questioned.  I think I have seen someone post that Lorenzo gave a PV on the 16th or 18th also.  I can't really remember for sure.  It is not in the stuff the was requested by Dr. Phil's attorneys, but I know we have talked about it before.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on December 20, 2007, 12:15:17 AM
Lala's found this - still looking:

Page 222 Loving Natalee

Peter De Vries reports that Joran almost confessed on June 18th,2005,when a Detective called Joran a devil.(We know that was Jacobs)

Joran said out of the blue "I dont know where she is buried" and mentions that he knows what they are thinking and that is that he called his father and he helped bury the body.

Once again June 18th  :-?
DeVries called this interrogation a missed opportunity, something about ALE and language difficulties. The transcriptions are unclear.

The DeVries show and the DeVries/Jensen show transcripts are a great read. Looking back, we should not have been surprised at the Sloot Dig, with DeVries stating (about 100x) that the police no longer believed they went to the beach.

just a minor point here- We know that is all true. The ALE should have known for sure with that statement that Lorenzo was not involved. The main suspect is implicating himself and his father. How could Lorenzo have made the jump to magician and locate himself in two places at once?

Lorenzo interviewed on 6-16-2005. Joran implicating himself on 6-18-2005. At that point they had the case closed. AGAIN.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 20, 2007, 08:52:47 AM
This one has Freddy written all over it.

187.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
He had to be let go.
Posted Jun 22, 5:16 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Beth Twitty and the Van der Sloots' Meet” | View Post


Statement from Freddy on 6/17 - to me his status is questionable from this time - and then no more statements until 6/28, coincidentally the same date as Lorenzo's statemnt. Freddy no longer appears to be a suspect on the Dr Phil listing. Simian says above: He had to be let go.


And what date was Freddy arrested?  What date did they let Paulus go?


Paulus arrested 6/22 and released 6/26. Freddy became a suspect some time after 6/17 and before 6/22. Will have to go back and see if there any clues around this time. Simian's post was 6/22 and he appeared to post in real time around this time. He says ahead of time, but tells of Joran not talking and the car tapes close to the time they happened. For him to be posting about Paulus' release on the day he was arrested just does not make any sense.

And when was Lorenzo arrested?  He was the person they were talking about after Steve Croes was arrested the day before.  I keep forgetting those dates. I think Steve Croes was brought in on the 15th and the next day Lorenzo was questioned.  I think I have seen someone post that Lorenzo gave a PV on the 16th or 18th also.  I can't really remember for sure.  It is not in the stuff the was requested by Dr. Phil's attorneys, but I know we have talked about it before.

Here's what I found: Steve was questioned 6/15 and arrested 6/17. Lorenzo...the first post I found out of Aruba was that 'a dutch boy from Savaneta' was arrested. Posted at 4.36PM June 16th ...... and if you are ARUBAN Y ALL KNOW!

And my dear friend Freddy was interviewed by Sir Frosted Flakes at 15.30 on, of course, 6/16.

Have also seen posts from June 10th saying LVR was mentioned earlier in the week and way back in the beginning. Spin machine was already in full force, so not sure what to make of Steve Croes, seems they deliberately crossed their suspects, ie Lorenzo Wever, Steve Croes - influential family, though his uncle is a retired cop, and of course my favorite: Lorenzo Locoman!

Keep in mind Lala's that what is in the Dr Phil logs is listed under Aruban Counsel, and am presuming that it's the Kalpoes Counsel list. Do not really think that explains why some interviews aren't listed, except if I recall 2Ks Counsel do not get anything that does not pertain to them.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 20, 2007, 11:22:51 PM
Lala's found this - still looking:

Page 222 Loving Natalee

Peter De Vries reports that Joran almost confessed on June 18th,2005,when a Detective called Joran a devil.(We know that was Jacobs)

Joran said out of the blue "I dont know where she is buried" and mentions that he knows what they are thinking and that is that he called his father and he helped bury the body.

Once again June 18th  :-?

I am confused by your comment...How would this absolve Lorenzo?  Sorry, I know it's plain as the nose on my face, but I am missing your point.
DeVries called this interrogation a missed opportunity, something about ALE and language difficulties. The transcriptions are unclear.

The DeVries show and the DeVries/Jensen show transcripts are a great read. Looking back, we should not have been surprised at the Sloot Dig, with DeVries stating (about 100x) that the police no longer believed they went to the beach.

just a minor point here- We know that is all true. The ALE should have known for sure with that statement that Lorenzo was not involved. The main suspect is implicating himself and his father. How could Lorenzo have made the jump to magician and locate himself in two places at once?

Lorenzo interviewed on 6-16-2005. Joran implicating himself on 6-18-2005. At that point they had the case closed. AGAIN.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 20, 2007, 11:23:50 PM
I give up!  I even missed the point of the quote line in the above post.  Sorry I am in there somewhere. LOL :2doh:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 20, 2007, 11:56:47 PM
Back to Freddy as the 5th suspect...did he meet Natalee earlier in the week?  That is the question.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 21, 2007, 09:37:47 AM
Back to Freddy as the 5th suspect...did he meet Natalee earlier in the week?  That is the question.

I haven't been able to find out very much about earlier in the week. Just read that some MB'ers went to C&Cs on Thurs, no indication that Natalee did.

Cool crazy guy (Locoman) and meets another boy in the same casino(Joran). Has to be the HI. Only way I can put Freddy there is with him working next door. Could be part of the pimps routine to case out the tourist groups when they come in.
Do they tromp around the casinos on a daily basis to see who is there? Or is this where Guido or GVC come? Guido would see them in the casino and GVC around the beach. Anita was out of town, so I'm sure Joran was there a lot that week, with whom, is the question?

There seems to be a lot of secrecy surrounding both Freddy and Lorenzo. Also confusing info. Most info on Lorenzo has come from posters up until his recent arrest. Somehow whatever their involvement is, they have both managed to stay pretty well under the radar as far as MSM is concerned.

Still waiting to have my CP checked out before I pop off any emails, Lala's. And I do agree with your Mr Pink theory from the other night.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 21, 2007, 10:19:59 AM
I don't know how right my Mr. Pink theory could be, but although in the Dana interview Jug could not make any porn connections and he pretty much wouldn't because his focus was on finding Natalee, but leads me to wonder how the children of the elders made all that money. Didn't seem to be able to make much gambling, yet Joran had cash to blow on shots of 151 for his "dates" at Carlos and Charlie's and Deepak was driving a really nice car compared to others on Aruba, I would bet. So the money is coming from somewhere...doubt the Internet Cafe was paying $25.00 an hour to Deepak. Besides, most of the Kalpoe family money was going to educate Satish to be a doctor, right?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 21, 2007, 10:50:32 AM
I am posting this portion of Simian in it's entire context...it is a bit long, but you need to read everything in between to see how disjointed the conversations are at times and how difficult it is to determine what is being said.  The best thing is to just read it and then think about it.  You will see that even the FP posters were wondering about Simian and who he or she was.


#  Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:23 pm

The news in Aruba has reported that Joran has shut down.
# jburnham on June 22nd, 2005 4:23 pm

I don’t think she ran away. + she left without her passport, right?
# ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:24 pm

And Jon I want to say you, your community and especially, the Twitty’s and Holloway’s that I hope that NH returns safely to her parents
# jon on June 22nd, 2005 4:24 pm

to ladyja i think she was druged ,GHB is very easy to slip in someones drink and it will make you feel very disoriented. The reason i say this is because its not in her character to get in a car with strangers to fashionqueen why would she take her phone to a nightclub in aruba where she had no reception.
# pktbk on June 22nd, 2005 4:25 pm

simian…shut down?

jb…the chaperones had their passports.
# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 4:25 pm

Simian - “The news in Aruba has reported that Joran has shut down. ” What does that mean?
# ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:25 pm

Simian what does that mean??
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:27 pm

Stopped talking.
# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:27 pm

He has gone in a sort of downer mood. Is not saying anything anymore.
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:28 pm

Sim - are you going telling us your info or not from earlier?
# VANESSA on June 22nd, 2005 4:28 pm

Shut down as in not talking anymore….possibly about to crack.
# MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 4:29 pm

Yeah, Daddy VDS prolly jumped his son’s ass again… “I TOLD YOU TO SHUT UP, BOY!!!”
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:29 pm

Sim - Right now we hear Joran has changed his story again - what do your hear?
# ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:29 pm

JON—-Ok I kinda figured something like that and I know you have heard several stories from allot ppl who were on the trip that is if you were’nt, but did anyone say y they didnt stop her? Or is it that no one saw her go in the car period?
# frank on June 22nd, 2005 4:30 pm

Wild stories. Things must be different in Aruba. In the US this would have already been leaked to the media.

We are all over speculating. An arrogant 17 year old kid is not that savy. A 26 year old DJ does not have a lot of credability either. If either of them had the kind of contacts necessary to pull of a human smuggling plot they would all already dead. It took the police over a week to arrest, trust me the mastermind behind something like that would have made sure there were no weak links. Like a mouthy 17 year old kid.

Here is the kicker though. Even in the simplest and most likely theory that something went wrong and they dumped the body. These kids would 100% leave obvious clues. They are not criminal masterminds. I am sure that the FBI knows what to look for immediately. Simple things, that even intelligent people like an Aruban judge would overlook.

The 26 year DJ puzzles me simply becuase of how he fits in and why…If I was dropped off by my friends and committed this crime alone. I would not tell or bring in a soul. I would figure this out on my own. You can never count on anybody not to talk. That is why serial killers do not traditionally have partners.

Even if this kid had an accident, maybe went skinny dippping and NH did not resurface. He should fry. He should fry for holding out and having a cavalier attitude.
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:30 pm

Vanessa - either that or he has told all he knows.
# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:31 pm

I tried to, but I got a message saying that my post would bo placed in through the moderator. I tried again and got the same message. Maybe I am not allowed to say what I know.
# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 4:32 pm

You mean he has been talking for the past 3 weeks, and NOW he decides to shut up? What a jerk. Obviously since Nat has not been found, he hasn’t given much concrete info to begin with. Why shut up now Joran. I mean have you even given authorities a clue on where Nat might be? Why stop talking now.

give me a break!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



#  CountryMoon on June 22nd, 2005 4:32 pm

I second all that Jon has said. Stop the rediculous rumors. Nat is a great girl. She has no reason to want to run away.
I never implied anything *******.
We second what Jon has said, we just want her to come home safe so that this whole nightmare can finally be over. Its interrupted everyones life and its very hard to deal with all of this. I think that is the main reason why we have come and read these polls, we want answers just like everyone else. Any little bit helps.
# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 4:33 pm

Sim - say it in another language and we’ll translate.
# Stefe McHearthy on June 22nd, 2005 4:34 pm

@ MOFOfromMO
Don’t you have any job or obligation to fulfill?

Or are you the one sponsored by Bin Laden….
# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 4:36 pm

We have to know that “Montana” (house where Joran and family lives) is really part of “Noord”. I reported yesterday that there was something going on. It was the parents finally meeting each other. Aruba is working.
# Red on June 22nd, 2005 4:36 pm

Just a heads up …

according to CNN, Scared Monkeys is supposed to be featured on “Inside the Blogs” today at 4:50 - 4:55 pm.

Thanks
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:37 pm

Checkme - any new tidbits you can provide today? Do you still think what we talked about yesterday to be true?
# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 4:38 pm

CountryMoon - I think the best thing Nat’s family has done is to keep this story in the spotlight!!! My advice to you and her family is to try and keep it in the front page of every newspaper, and on the news in every state/country. I think with enough publicity Nat will come home! KEEP THE MEDIA involved. Even if what they say are rumors and nothing is a fact, it keeps the story in the news!!!! That is what’s important. GOD BLESS NATALEE!
# frank on June 22nd, 2005 4:39 pm

Also, if there is more than one party involved. Somebody needs to explain to this kid that he is about to ass-raped for a very longtime. How long depends on who cracks first…

How is that for drama. Just like Law and Order
# Mark 2 on June 22nd, 2005 4:40 pm

I don’t know Natalee, but I don’t see any way that Natalee would run away and put her mother through such grief. The pictures they show of them together indicate they have a pretty close bond. Unless she is an absolute cook, which she doesn’t seem to be, there is no way she would put her mother through this.
# pktbk on June 22nd, 2005 4:41 pm

jake….that is true. even if her parents have to leave. they need to be on tv or newspapers everyday to keep this going.

checkme—you were spot on yesterday.
# ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:42 pm

Country Moon do u believe she was drugged also?
# frank on June 22nd, 2005 4:42 pm

and either way, wether this punk thinks he can be free in 120 days or whatever the law is. If I was NH family and this does not come to a close by then. I would make sure he is silienced for good. One way or another.

Just make sure they hire someone that will torture the little punk first. Everyone is talks tough until you cut a finger off.
# MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 4:42 pm

**Stefe McHearthy Says:

June 22nd, 2005 at 4:34 pm
@ MOFOfromMO
Don’t you have any job or obligation to fulfill?

Or are you the one sponsored by Bin Laden….**

You are a LOSER. And I don’t need a reject trying to be my daddy, when I already have a wonderful one.

Don’t YOU have a life, other than attempting to cast insults on people obviously better than you are?

Good grief! You are pathetic!!! No wonder some animals eat their young!
# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 4:43 pm

June 16, 2005 08:26 AM on RiehlWorldView:

“I have always loved Aruba for it’s multi cultural society. Even to see how under extreme stress we can still see each others humanity gives me hope. On this island the distances are very short so you cannot remain distant and judge coldly. “
# ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:43 pm

Is Simian gone??
# pktbk on June 22nd, 2005 4:44 pm

do you think it odd that not only do we mainly hear about joran, not the brothers. but also that steve croes is a friend of the brothers, not so much joran. i think there is something going on in regards to the brothers. there is no spotlight on them right now.
# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:45 pm

I hope they find her. The gov’t and the private sector should give the whole island the day off to go wave her goodbye at the Airport.
# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 4:46 pm

Do you guys believe that Simien tried to send us a message and got placed in a “moderator”????? Do you think he’s for real? Or are his walls padded? Or maybe he needs a nap?
# ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:46 pm

pktbk I totally agree, b/c they were the first ones sent to the big Prison not Joran, so y him and not them.
# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 4:47 pm

You got it pktbk.

CRS, all still stands dude.
# CountryMoon on June 22nd, 2005 4:47 pm

If those three boys want everyone to believe that they did to her what they had claimed in their first, second, and third version of their stories, when they were trying to smear her name, then given her character she would have had to of be drugged. I am not saying that she was though. There are different interpretations on how she looked when she left that night. Every one was just so busy having a good time, and the idea of something bad actually happening was the farthest from everyones minds. I can not really comment further on that.
# Stefe McHearthy on June 22nd, 2005 4:47 pm

@ MOFOfromMO
Thanks for confirming!
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:47 pm

what was up with Checkme’s last post. Checkme, give me something today - you are always right on.



I think I would be safe in saying that the poster Checkme was most likely ALE or in the prosecution office.  In other convos both Simian and Checkme knew each other although you don't know that in this conversation.  Also, keep in mind that Lucy and CRS knew who they were too. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 21, 2007, 10:59:11 AM
The 5th Suspect: Here we go!

Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:48 pm

I am here. Can’t say the things I want…

# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:48 pm

Thanks checkme!!
# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 4:49 pm

Sorry CRS, gotta go.
# frank on June 22nd, 2005 4:49 pm

We only hear from Joran because he is the weakest. The other 2 do not have as much to loose.
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:50 pm

Tom/Red - can you elaborate at all on Simian?
# pktbk on June 22nd, 2005 4:50 pm

*mouth wide open*

all i can think is what came from an aruban poster in regards to them not really liking the dutch or other minorities. so scapegoat the two black security guards, and scapegoat the rich dutch boy….
# MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 4:50 pm

Jake to Simian: Oopsey…I think Simian’s back. Maybe he could answer about the ‘padded walls’. :O
# Stefe McHearthy on June 22nd, 2005 4:50 pm

@ MOFOfromMO
And now comes the true hard part:
Put down that bottle!
I realize it is very hard but give it a try. There are people who care about you!!
# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:50 pm

Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.

# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 4:52 pm

WO!
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:53 pm

Sim can you elaborate anymore than that? Is this your opinion or based on something mre concrete?
# pktbk on June 22nd, 2005 4:53 pm

wow…..we’ve made more progress in the last five minutes than all week!!
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:54 pm

pktbk - sim is contradicting what checkme says. Thoughts?
# ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:55 pm

pktbk— where did u hear that they didnt like black or the dutch kid, b/c they seemed to hang out with him more than once.
# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 4:55 pm

What did CheckMe say?
# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:56 pm

The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

# MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 4:57 pm

Stefe:

****yawn****

You’re boring me.
# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 4:57 pm

Sim - what is the other side of the pond? Is it a place, or is it an organization?
# ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:58 pm

wat alibi does the 5ht suspect have??
# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 4:59 pm

Who is the 5th suspect? There are now 4. Who is the 5th?
# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 4:59 pm

“the other side of the pond” - the Aruban Mafia
# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:00 pm

The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:02 pm

The other side of pond I assume is the us and you are insinuting it is her friends/family involved.
# ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 5:02 pm

whose boyfriend earlier in the week??????
# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 5:02 pm

Huh Simian?
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:02 pm

What boyfriend? Whose? I am confused Sim.
# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:03 pm

This is getting really bizarre. Who’s boyfriend from earlier in the week?
# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:03 pm

The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

# MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 5:03 pm

Simian:
Boyfriend from earlier? Can you elaborate??

Thanx!
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:03 pm

Sim - i am totally lost on what you are saying.
# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:04 pm

SImian
Is #5 Van Rijn????????
# Stefe McHearthy on June 22nd, 2005 5:04 pm

@ MOFOfromMO
And I want to say that I care about you! But you need to work on yourself! That is not easy. Nobody sais it is easy! You will receive the guidance and love you need if you step up and be honest!

Stefe.
# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:06 pm

I think he is saying NH had an earlier aquaintance during the first couple of days of the trip — I think.
# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:06 pm

crs
I think you blew the cover.
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:06 pm

Stefe - why have you gone psycho on mom, chill out.
# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:07 pm

This is BS. I don’t believe that NH family or friends had anything to do with this! This is not what this case is about. Stop trying to throw us off track here. The MAIN SUSPECTS and CULPRITS in this case are the ones that are in jail right now. I don’t think we should let anyone take us away from that. We heard from Country Moon that Nat and Family are really good people, and I believe it! I truly do! You can tell by all the pictures. I still believe it is Joran and friends!
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:07 pm

rem - you may be right.
# MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 5:07 pm

Stefe:

What exactly is your purpose in this forum????

No one cares what the hell you are talking about. Please stay on topic or go back to pre-school.
# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:09 pm

A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:11 pm

Was the lover on the trip??


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 21, 2007, 11:04:27 AM
#  Stefe McHearthy on June 22nd, 2005 5:12 pm

@ MOFOfromMO
You know it is exactly on topic.
Do what you feel is right.
# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:12 pm

Sim -Surely your not saying a local MT brook boyfriend would be involved in this, would you.
# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:13 pm

A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:14 pm

Sim -I think your reaching
# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:15 pm

How could a local MT boyfriend be involved. The FBI would have cracked this case already through phone records and the internet. I don’t believe this. This is yet ANOTHER rumor!
# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:16 pm

He had to be let go.

# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:16 pm

Does seem a little far fetched.
# born 2 b wild on June 22nd, 2005 5:17 pm

I love the cock fighting that goes on in this blog -complete w/razor blades attached to the spurs

We should take odds on the hour for the latest round

Right now we got Stefe in this corner and MOM from MO (the “show me MOM”) in that corner

p.s: checkme - check this
# Kristin on June 22nd, 2005 5:17 pm

COUNTRY MOON:

Thank you for taking the time to come on and talk to us. We appreciate your time, even though we can’t imagine how hard this must be for you and your community-we do understand. We all have been pretty caught up in this case, it’s tearing everyone apart. People have been listening to the news, radio and checking online forums faithfully. We all want Natalee to be safe, and we all understand that there is more to the story. As typical Americans though, we don’t understand WHY we can’t hear the truth. We know that Mrs. Twitty is keeping it together for SOME reason other than the simple hope of Natalee being alive. She has to KNOW that she is alive. Any information that we hear is helpful…and just the fact that you say OUTLOUD that there is more to the story keeps us all hanging on. It is hard to try and justify what Natalee is really like, when we don’t know her and we hear all of the rumors. It would help us all to understand MORE if we knew if Natalee has dissapeared before. But as you said, you probably can’t answer that.
I figured I would give it a shot anyways, and if you still can’t answer, I respect that.
Do you believe that she is alive but in another country?
# sunny71 on June 22nd, 2005 5:17 pm

Some insight from a local:
the coverage of this case is ridiculous, but I can understand the fixation on the ‘exoticness’ of this case, what with the weird Aruban laws and all.
Fact is, the police here has every interest in getting this thing resolved asap, if only because of the negative publicity.
The investigators screwed up in the beginning, because vdSloot Sr. is well known in those circles and they took Jr.’s story at face value at first. Understandable under the circumstances, but stupid in hindsight.
Jr. would have confessed a long time ago if he had done it. Interrogations by the local police are not a walk in the park for the suspects, as some of you might think. Aruban police knows a thing or two about pressuring a suspect.
My question is: did NH go back to her hotelroom and sneak out that night and are her roommates keeping mum about that? Just a thought.
I think Steve Croes and the Kalpoe’s should be the focus.
# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:17 pm

Good try Sim….I hope this story (rumor) breaks tonight. That will mean more air time for the Natalee Case!!!
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:18 pm

Sim - again is this your theory or something more concrete?
# MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 5:19 pm

Hey Sim?

Didn’t you mention earlier that when you were ‘awaiting moderation’, that it occurred when you typed (the word for a place to gamble)???
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:20 pm

Kristin - Country seemed to discount that earlier that she had been kidnapped and was possibly on another island - she seemed to point the finger at Van Der Sloot.
# MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 5:21 pm

Born 2 B Wild:

Now, don’t get excited. I’m not in any corner, cuz I don’t humor TROLLS for long.

Besides, I’ve already flushed him down the commode with the rest of his little ‘brown friends’.

***Whhhhaaaa-Shhhhhhhhhh***
# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:22 pm

This is not my theory. This is for real.

# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:23 pm

Sim - I will give you your props if it proves correct.
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:25 pm

Sim - let me get this right - seriously - you are saying NH’s ex killed her on the trip and the friends are covering up that he did this? Hence giving him an airtight alibi as you say.
# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:25 pm

crs- can you put together a small little paragraph on the latest theory from Sim.
# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:25 pm

Sim - You have lost me!!
# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:25 pm

Sunny 71
I do not know if it is true, but about 12 days ago it was reported that the roomates had not worried because she had only slept in the room the first night. Did not say if she had slept at other friends’ or elsewhere.
# Kristin on June 22nd, 2005 5:25 pm

Seriously guys, what are we talking about? WHO is suspect # 5? AND, something along these lines WOULD make sense, seeing as how everyone in Aruba knows whats going on and they all seem calm about it. If Joran really did something to Natalee, you think Mrs. Twitty would be hugging his mother and being friendly with his Dad? NO. I don’t care how nice she is, she wouldn’t do that.

Thanks CRS for being so helpful.
GOD-WHAT is going on??? And WHEN are we going to find out????????????
# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:26 pm

The alibi story is the almost the latest.

The latest is that there’s a gap in the time-line for the boys.

It is true that one of them tried to off himself.

# Midway on June 22nd, 2005 5:26 pm

Joran’s probably innocent
# MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 5:28 pm

I’m outtie, folks. Have a great evening..Thank you everyone, for all the updates!!

Peace out.
# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 5:28 pm

Simian is late with facts and wring with his speculations.

# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:28 pm

Kristin
Mrts. Twiggy didn’t hug Mrs. Van Der Sloot. Mrs. Van Der Sloot kissed Mrs. Twiggy on the cheek, as she left her house.
# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:29 pm

I did not say an ex. Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.

# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:29 pm

Sim - your not making any sense- on the one hand you seem to be saying an ex killed NH and on the other hand you are back talking about the boys - why would one of the boys try and kill himself if he is being framed?
# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:29 pm

elaborate Checkme
# Midway on June 22nd, 2005 5:29 pm

The two security guards set Joran up
# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:30 pm

But who is the ex-boyfriend? Is he someone from the US, or did Natalee meet him in Aruba? Who is Van Rijn?
# Rob on June 22nd, 2005 5:30 pm

Sim,

Was this #5 perhaps someone Joran was having a confrontation with in C&C’s?
# pdl on June 22nd, 2005 5:30 pm

Mrs. Twitty after leaving the Van Der Sloot’s home said that she felt sure there would be more arrests leading me to think that she is being held somewhere by others.
# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 5:30 pm

He said the ex was at “home.” He said the 5th had an alibi - that is not necessarily the ex.
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:30 pm

Checkme- that is what i figured as you have by far been the most accurate and I am with you on your theory.
# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:31 pm

Checkme
Please put us up-to-date.
# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:31 pm

Sim is saying that her ex’s friends had something to do with this, her ex was back in alabama, right Sim
# concerned4natalee on June 22nd, 2005 5:31 pm

DOES ANYONE HAVE A CLUE HERE?
# concerned4natalee on June 22nd, 2005 5:32 pm

WHO’S THE 5TH PERSON??
# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:33 pm

Concerned - Ask Sim, he’s like my mom, he knows everything.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 21, 2007, 11:09:14 AM
Notice how Simian is just a tad jealous of that fact that all the posters believe Checkme and not Simian:


Stefe McHearthy on June 22nd, 2005 5:33 pm

@ MOFOfromMO

Think, it is your life!
Please be blesseth!
# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:33 pm

Checkme and Simian
This is it for you guys. You need to deliver something, since you have created all this expectation
# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 5:34 pm

rem - your mom taught you well
# Kristin on June 22nd, 2005 5:35 pm

Seriously, please tell me something. PLEASE.
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:36 pm

Lucy - i think Sim is a long shot, this is the first day i have seen him on the boards and he has not been right so far but i would stick with Checkme.
# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 5:36 pm

I think it’s Checkme’s turn to deliver.
# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:37 pm

I agree with CRS. Checkme, where do we stand?
# Snippy on June 22nd, 2005 5:37 pm

MOM, that was I that mentioned that gambling place called a C…just thought I’d peek in and see what the therories are now…so Sim thinks a kid on the trip did the deed? Can’t figure out for the life of me what he’s saying..SPIT IT OUT…instead of playing these word games for goodness sake.
# concerned4natalee on June 22nd, 2005 5:37 pm

????????
# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:37 pm

crs
Will follow your advise. For a while I thought he was a java duplicate.
# concerned4natalee on June 22nd, 2005 5:38 pm

THIS BLOG IS ALL SPECULATION… FRUSTRATING…
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:38 pm

NH’s mom and Greta reminded me of Room Raiders on MTV last night, I thought they were going to throw Sr. Sloot in the back of a van for a second and try and get him a date.
# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 5:39 pm

lucy - what’s a java duplicate?
crs - what is checkme’s theory?
Sim - what?
# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:39 pm

I think I scared he/she off with the last comment directed toward friends of NH’s ex.
# TK Ice on June 22nd, 2005 5:41 pm

..been lurking for the past couple days - had no intention of posting, but these last few minutes have been like a Chinese (oops Asian) fire-drill
Reminds of an old Abbott & Costello routine:
Who’s on first? Who
What’s on second? right, what
I don’t know. Third base
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:41 pm

Checkme believes NH is part of a kidnapping and has been moved most likely to Columbia - he believes Joran is totally innocent - he believes the brothers and Croes to be involved.
# Kristin on June 22nd, 2005 5:41 pm

Oh and do we all remember how the aruban veteran had said that natalee’s friends and family needed to take the polygraph test, or whatever? Now some of this is starting to make sense. Maye they need to give more information now. He wouldn’t say that for NO reason.
# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 5:41 pm

What you do with what I say is up to you Lucy. I give a finger, you “expect” a body.

Simian, a motive from Joran we do not have.

Twitty will let Joran free soon.

CRS, good hearing you again, proly because you followed my trail. I think that’s because you have read and felt what I have and tie it all together to the seemingly most likely scenario. Like Simian, I hate repeating myself.
# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:41 pm

Simian Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
June 22nd, 2005 at 5:40 pm
Simian Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
June 22nd, 2005 at 5:38 pm
Checkme…check this…and please recheck:

Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week.

After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him. This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.

First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.

How can this ever be solved?
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:42 pm

I think Lucy thought sim and checkme were the same person.
# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:43 pm

Everybody including me wants to throw in 2 cents worth and hope that somebody on
the other end really has information, most times we are being deceived by speculation, that’s all it is, speculation.
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:44 pm

Checkme - you have not been wrong so far and I think what we have talked about to be very possible.
# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 5:44 pm

You are both verrrrrrrrrry interesting.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 21, 2007, 11:14:54 AM

# Snippy on June 22nd, 2005 5:45 pm

Sim..I get you now..THANKS…you could be right..I “See” you mentioned that dreaded C word like I did and had your post deleted…
# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:45 pm

Trisher
I guess I have started to really believe that I was one more of the detectives on this case. Around 4:48 CRS asked Chjeckme if he was around. Simian said, a few lines afterwards something like I am here but can’t say everything. Out of the blues, I decided that Simian and Checkme perhaps were the same person. In computer languages, I think they call Simian a code that identifies a duplicate.
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:47 pm

Can someone explain to me in Sim’s theory who is guy 1 and guy 2, which is Joran?
# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:49 pm

Checkme
I don’t expect a body. Perhaps a short summary of your latest discovery. Did not mean to be pushy, but just like everyone, just want your info updates to keep coming. My apologies.
# Rob on June 22nd, 2005 5:51 pm

Simian,

Hence the confrontation with Joran that the other students reported seeing at C&C’s?
# sunny71 on June 22nd, 2005 5:52 pm

so NH only slept in the assigned room with her roommates on the first nioght of their vacation? Is that correct?
If so, I’m really starting to wonder about this girl. Where did she sleep all the other nights? Did she have her bags packed the whole week, ready to leave at a moments notice?
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:53 pm

I wonder what crazy antics Greta and Beth will be to tonight.
# born 2 b wild on June 22nd, 2005 5:53 pm

jghfti llhjmy rhedcxedb dmcxcki fjrnrffu*n llamcd bgt fllrt gmmmm?

(another intergalactic relay - means “wheres the beef”)
# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:55 pm

He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.

# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:57 pm

Sunny 71
She may have slept at other classmates room. If they hung around together, came to the hotel, and slept in somebody elses’s room.
# cancon on June 22nd, 2005 5:57 pm

ah wait a minute, wait a minute, having experienced this somewhat myself……

the rumour de jour is that Natalee only slept in her room one night, could it be Natalee did not get along with her specific roomates which would explain why they seemed so clueless last night on Fox, had there been some big blowout so Natalee was bunking with others????
# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 5:57 pm

Lucy, CRS did an excellent recap for us all. Please don’t confuse me anymore with Simian. Just like van Sijn and van Rijn…

One thing I do want to repeat. It is so easy to throw mud at our authorities. Please don’t. We are all doing our best every day to have NH reunited with her family. We are not very good at the media show which is why I am also happy our system is closed while the investigative process is taking place.

I am not part of “the Aruban Authority”. Just a Human Being living in Aruba (duhhh…)

Vanessa, did you ever take a look at the links I posted for you? I send them with my warmest regards.
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:57 pm

Sim - i am going to have to think about this tonight and i will have some questions tomorrow morning.
# cancon on June 22nd, 2005 5:59 pm

or Natalee was having a feud with one or two of the girls and thusly purposely avoiding them, only spending the min time in the room……..
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:59 pm

Checkme, have a good night my friend, hope you have some more details tomorrow!!
# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 6:01 pm

The first guy she met has all the motive. The second guy is scared shitless in a cell.

I have heard from Americans living in Aruba and and they think something completely different.

# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 6:01 pm

Simian

Possible alibis (or alibies) for #5:
Was in jail for DUI of illegal substances
Was filming himself
Was making a delivery
Was in Curaà §ao
Was painting his truck in Savaneta
None of the above
# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 6:03 pm

Take care, CU tmrw. Over and out.
# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 6:04 pm

Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was “the whole time”.

# born 2 b wild on June 22nd, 2005 6:05 pm

I think the entire entourage (friends,chaperones etc…) now that they are back here in the USA, should be interviewed by the FBI,especially any who were in close proximity to (or responsible for) NH. They probably are being talked to as we speak.

Oh hang on, I just got another alien e-mail (I’ll be right back to paste it)>>>

fkvlfdidddp olggmt ffpdsmvg lsmmvnfjvhjjj vofofoggoffmsdmsamxx !!!

(translation: “born 2 be wild, you are a butt wipe”)

“I tell ya, I get no respect”
# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 6:05 pm

Lucy!!! I am starting to like you.
# Kristin on June 22nd, 2005 6:06 pm

OK so if all this is true, why did Natalee leave with Joran? Why didn’t she just go back to her hotel with her friends? AND, who’s alibi is airtight?
# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 6:07 pm

Lucy, are you from Aruba?
# Kristin on June 22nd, 2005 6:08 pm

Simian, can you share a little more information? Are you in Aruba?
Thanks!
# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 6:11 pm

Kristin,

Go back to the hotel? Last nite out? Party on dudess…
# cancon on June 22nd, 2005 6:12 pm

oh Kristin i am going back to the mind of feuding high school girls…..

she may have gone off with the Aruban guys either because maybe the blowout was the girls fighting over Joran, hey women are always fighting over men who are so not worth it, so Natalee was going ha ha Joran is with me beatches or she took off with them to spite them in general or because she didn’t want to be with the gang….
# born 2 b wild on June 22nd, 2005 6:16 pm

simian means ape or primate FYI
# pdl on June 22nd, 2005 6:16 pm

News is slow on Fox and CNN. I wonder if they all went home?
# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 6:17 pm

Checkme
No, I am from Santo Domingo, but have have visited Aruba many times. Have relatives in San Nicolas. My greatgrandfaher was from Curaà §ao and my great uncle moved back there. I have great childhood memories of Aruba, the carnival, the newyears eve celebrations, etc., and also my first encounter in life with oriental and asian foods.
# Donny on June 22nd, 2005 6:18 pm

@Sim:
Is that 5th suspect with a tight aliby whose father recently committed suicide and who has had serious mental issues since?
# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 6:20 pm

Mira, Dominicana!!! My my you have traveled much. Allow me to compliment you on your perfect English.

I have seen you a lot on this blog. Why are you so interested in this case?
# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 6:24 pm

Checkme
First, the desperation of the mother. Then, the fact that it was Aruba. By the way, went banck about 7 years ago, and could not believe the change from oil refineries to hotel strips. Do you still call Oranjestad, Playa?

As for my English, went to school in Massachusetts.
# jon on June 22nd, 2005 6:28 pm

simian you make up more bull another lover , it seems you are just trying to start more rumors . you have no FACTS to say so you make stuff up. TO all the others ,she had no boyfriend back home. the other side of the pond , please anyone thats interested dont listen to this guy. He has no idea what he is talking about .
# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 6:29 pm

Sigur cu si, playa a keda playa.

My first girlfriend (Colombiana) also went to school in Massachusetts… many moons ago.
# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 6:31 pm

Jon,

Read Simian better. he did not write what you said.
# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 6:31 pm

I went many moons ago too 1969-1979.
# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 6:36 pm

I came here around the same time, 1969. Things have changed indeed.
# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 6:38 pm

Before I go Lucy, if you may ask me one question, what would that question be, right now?
# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 6:45 pm

Checkme
Since Aruba is so small, I won’t ask you where you came from. Perhaps later on. It was great having this small conversation on the side (of the blog). Look forward to keep reading your comments. Mis mà ¡s sinceros saludos y respeto,
# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 6:49 pm

Checkme
Upss, didn’t read your 6:38 post until now. No questions now, will wait for your comments, today or tomorrow, depending on your return.

Bye.
# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 6:50 pm

the silence before the storm…
# Kristin on June 22nd, 2005 6:59 pm

why cant you type in the word ca$in0
# Kristin on June 22nd, 2005 6:59 pm

if you try to type it, it says your post is awating moderation…WHY
# Kristin on June 22nd, 2005 7:01 pm

WHERE DID EVERYONE GO
# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 7:34 pm

Lucy,

You there?
# Kristin on June 22nd, 2005 7:36 pm

yes are you there?
# Kristin on June 22nd, 2005 7:37 pm

did you try to type what i asked above? also did you read that flyer that some girl pointed out in the beginning of this page? is the poster supposed to be from natalee or her mother?
# Kristin on June 22nd, 2005 7:38 pm

where did everyone go?
# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 7:40 pm

Kristin,

Are u Lucy?

Let us go to the other blog, the first one on NH, nice and clean start…
# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 7:46 pm

come to:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1175
# Hope on June 23rd, 2005 12:18 am

Jorans father is working his way into Dutch Monarchy….Joran is 17….a minor…a MINOR…if he fell victom to a mishap, (accidental homicide) he would first:
a) try to cover up
b) second rely on dad to cover up
c) third break down and confess knowing he is 17 and a minor under Dutch law….he would do no real time…his dad knows this, his mom knows this, they all know his dads Judgeship is now a pipedream…..why not confess….why does he not confess…all of us who stay here in this forum day after day, hour after hour still refuse to ask ourselves…what is really going on. Occams razor….

Occams Razor
“A rule in science and philosophy stating that entities should not be multiplied needlessly. This rule is interpreted to mean that the simplest of two or more competing theories is preferable and that an explanation for unknown phenomena should first be attempted in terms of what is already known. Also called law of parsimony.”

I drempt last night…”in my dream I smell the smell of chemicals…once before I smelled this, the smell and taste of an anesthesia right before i passed out on the operating table at the age of 14, after 15 seconds of this I drempt that something was after me, i fight to get away from this thing coming at me…then this thing becomes headless…I feel slightly safer..untill…the headless thing comes at me again, and now it feels like many many hands pulling at my stomach, more hands than this thing should have…why is it still alive pulling at me”…then I awake…I’ve been semiasleep for 20 mins. Dear lambs of God, I can say that was our angel…on 6/22/05 at 5:20am I was touched…blessed…ushered in…her soul is strong…we will not fail her.
# Willem on June 23rd, 2005 3:47 am

You guys suck big time! It’s obvious why we kicked your ick basterds out of Europe back then.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 22, 2007, 08:13:08 AM
How do we know that Lorenzo has any involvement?  Could he have been set up to take a fall for the Sloots?  Is Anita capable of putting his name out there and insisting his involvement (without her ever having to mention him) since this would clear her Sporter and get him out of hers and Paulus' lives?  Is this Anita's way of paying back Paulus and Lorenzo's mother for the affair that reportedly took place in the years before Anita?  Is Anita jealous of Lorenzo's mother?  Would she be jealous since she moved to Aruba, thinking she did it to be near Paulus?  What if Lorenzo was only brought up at the insistence of Anita.


I saw this last night and had just read somewhere that Anita and Paulus were interviewed on 6/15. I do not have any idea where I read it, but Simian says the parents were questioned by the FBI on 6/22. To me this means Beth and Dave. If I come across it again I will post.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 22, 2007, 08:29:44 AM
Lala's...thanks for yesterday's posts. Have read once and thought about it all. Will need to read and reread!


In reference to my post on the top of page, which I could not for the life of me remember what I had read at the time, and posted as to jog my memory:

Who else plays in the orchestra?

This was posted last night in the main thread.

Paul van der Sloot is indeed member of a brass band and he goes all out during the carnival, but in Aruba he is mostly known as the serious lawyer for whom the principles of justice always and everywhere comes in first place

And I found this about the Minister of Injustice. He is in a band called 'diabetico', they have a myspace and a web page. And their webpage even tells them who is visiting! Needless to sy I did not stay very long!


Quote from Stom on page 16 of this thread

I don’t know if there was a party that Joran and Natalee could bave gone to. If I am not mistaken, there was a family gathering at Freddy’s and consequently he had an alibi.  Koen Gottenbos was in Florida.  So at the risk of being overconfident with the available information, we can discard Freddy and the older Gottenbos boy as being hosts of an event that night.















Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 23, 2007, 08:03:54 AM
Lala's...from the above posts I am almost certain of one thing that bothered me. 'Across the pond' is the Netherlands NOT US. Searching posts from Aruba, on any subject, across the pond is Europe. Do you remember when these posters first posted. as I would like to start at the beginning?

And my little bit on my good friend Freddy for the day (from chapter 3, page 5 of Joran's book translation)
page 5:

- Joran and Freddy often went to the beach. He got him in touch with the pretty girls. He said "look there go a few pretty American girls, let's go and talk to them". Joran says Freddy introduced in to the paradise that had always been in front of him. Freddy's English sucked so it was mostly Joran who did the chatting with the girls. Freddy had no inhibitions/hang ups. He did not care if he made an ass of himself. He would be blown for 20 times but then he was lucky the 21st time

Cool and crazy guy! Thanks again Lala's!




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 23, 2007, 08:52:00 AM
Just a little more on Freddy.....

Page 1: Chapter 4 of Joran’s book

- aged 16 I had already understood that to chat up girls on had to be "ballsy"

- together with Freddy and Jaime Joran would trawl the beaches and swimming pools to chat up tourists


Pages 1 and 2: Chapter 8 of Joran’s book: Is this Freddy’s family reunion?

Then Joran writes about the Soul Beach Music festival, he writes about the fact that it was memorial day weekend and who is performing, the price of the tickets and the fact that many people from around Aruba (Venezuela, other islands) have sailed/boated over the for the festivities.


  Pages 19 and 20: Chapter 8 of Joran’s book: Does this have anything to do with the 7th level?


That afternoon the cleaning lady finds a very messy room 7114: "In the room there were a lot of empty bottles of alcoholic beverages. There were about 6 yard cups. Her passport and suitcase they had left in the room".

More questions, no answers!




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 23, 2007, 02:22:46 PM
Mum
It's hard to track all those posts in order...Some are in one area of comments and then some are in comment sections of other FP posts.  Is your email fixed yet?  I can send you the link to the area I am copying from.  It's not on the date of the posts, it is in the comments section of an earlier story. Start with June 21, 965 comments.  I think that is where I found these. Lots of reading...now you know why I am crazy!  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 23, 2007, 02:36:29 PM
Mum
It's hard to track all those posts in order...Some are in one area of comments and then some are in comment sections of other FP posts.  Is your email fixed yet?  I can send you the link to the area I am copying from.  It's not on the date of the posts, it is in the comments section of an earlier story. Start with June 21, 965 comments.  I think that is where I found these. Lots of reading...now you know why I am crazy!  :roll:


I haven't had it checked yet. Cuz is busy. It's my CPU that acted weird and have only emailed Klaas since. Did you read what I posted for you. Lala's.  It says the post is not real, I think, but a whole lot changed between two of Simian's posts. I need to get you this get you the info.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 23, 2007, 02:43:49 PM
Is there a list of real Shango posts like there is for Simian? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on December 23, 2007, 03:58:21 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Holloway/raveironfist4.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on December 23, 2007, 04:05:11 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Holloway/6c3cwgi.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 24, 2007, 09:58:16 AM
Mum
It's hard to track all those posts in order...Some are in one area of comments and then some are in comment sections of other FP posts.  Is your email fixed yet?  I can send you the link to the area I am copying from.  It's not on the date of the posts, it is in the comments section of an earlier story. Start with June 21, 965 comments.  I think that is where I found these. Lots of reading...now you know why I am crazy!  :roll:


I haven't had it checked yet. Cuz is busy. It's my CPU that acted weird and have only emailed Klaas since. Did you read what I posted for you. Lala's.  It says the post is not real, I think, but a whole lot changed between two of Simian's posts. I need to get you this get you the info.

Where is what you posted about the above comment?  Which post are you referring to? Shango or Simian?  Yes, there has been much debate on what is real and what isn't.  I was simply posting them in order as they appeared on the FP.   Also, where is the excerpt from Joran's book you wanted me to read about the girlfriends?  I looked but I don't think I am on the same page as you are. Help me out here.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 24, 2007, 10:54:30 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Holloway/6c3cwgi.jpg)


Anna ...help me out please, who are these guys? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sirensong on December 26, 2007, 04:08:51 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Holloway/raveironfist4.jpg)



Wow, Anna.  Is this by that same Canadian guy that did those pictures early in the case?  I wonder how he knows so much.  I hope he is right, that the House of Rave will be revealed soon.  Very interesting to me.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on December 26, 2007, 05:41:23 PM
No, SilverFox,

The character names Shango uses are mostly found in the Marvel Comic Series IronFist.  This is the cover of one of the comic books from that series. 

I am very unpopular when I point out the Shango was evidently quite the comic book fan based on his choice of monikers and phraseology.  Marvel has Elders, Babylonians, Rave, House of Rave, etc.

In this series, Rave refers to the drug and not any sort of party.  If I were a fan of Shango and Lord knows I am not, I would check the implications and use within the comic series as I believe that is where Shango got his references and not from being a great student of Literature as some suggest.

Just my unpopular opinion only.

Lala's doesn't allow me in this thread but I sneaked in while she was indulging herself in her new Christmas pencils and paper.  She is the Hall Monitor and, well, we all know how those are, right?  Anyway, just ran across a couple of Shango photos in my photobucket and thought I would post them as I am clearing out lots of old files.  Someone might find it interesting.
.

.

.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on December 26, 2007, 05:43:39 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Holloway/6c3cwgi.jpg)


Anna ...help me out please, who are these guys? TIA


I don't remember the name exactly but Lala's should know.  Just ran across some old Shango/Simian photos in my bucket and thought I would post them for anybody who wants to keep them as I am clearing out lots of old stuff to make more room.  For doggie photos, of course, haha.

.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: yapperz1 on December 26, 2007, 09:13:25 PM
The guy with short hair looks like Claudius T Phillips. Not sure who the long haored one is.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 26, 2007, 09:16:28 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Holloway/raveironfist4.jpg)



Wow, Anna.  Is this by that same Canadian guy that did those pictures early in the case?  I wonder how he knows so much.  I hope he is right, that the House of Rave will be revealed soon.  Very interesting to me.

This appears to be from the comic book that has the Shango character in it. Thanks Anna for bringing this over. We had an entire thread with this stuff once...long before the crash that took it all away. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 26, 2007, 09:18:26 PM
The guy with short hair looks like Claudius T Phillips. Not sure who the long haired one is.

Thanks Yapp...I believe we referred to him as "the music man".


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 26, 2007, 09:24:12 PM
No, SilverFox,

The character names Shango uses are mostly found in the Marvel Comic Series IronFist.  This is the cover of one of the comic books from that series. 

I am very unpopular when I point out the Shango was evidently quite the comic book fan based on his choice of monikers and phraseology.  Marvel has Elders, Babylonians, Rave, House of Rave, etc.

In this series, Rave refers to the drug and not any sort of party.  If I were a fan of Shango and Lord knows I am not, I would check the implications and use within the comic series as I believe that is where Shango got his references and not from being a great student of Literature as some suggest.

Just my unpopular opinion only.

Lala's doesn't allow me in this thread but I sneaked in while she was indulging herself in her new Christmas pencils and paper.  She is the Hall Monitor and, well, we all know how those are, right?  Anyway, just ran across a couple of Shango photos in my photobucket and thought I would post them as I am clearing out lots of old files.  Someone might find it interesting.
.

.

.

Thus Shango was in the age range of 19-27.  I doubt that Shango ever read much literature.  It's a combination of marvel comics characters and Santeria practices with a few lucky guesses thrown in for good measure. Got any more stuff you would like to share?  Thanks.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: yapperz1 on December 26, 2007, 09:26:33 PM
Even though Shango may have been "into" Marvel comic books doesn't mean he didn't know the routine on that rock. MOO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 26, 2007, 11:53:43 PM
The guy with short hair looks like Claudius T Phillips. Not sure who the long haored one is.

Wow, thanks...I tried earlier to remember his name and find him in archives....the short haired guy might be his brother.....teacher at ISA??? or something similar?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on December 27, 2007, 06:32:22 PM
Quote
:
"I am very unpopular when I point out the Shango was evidently quite the comic book fan based on his choice of monikers and phraseology.  Marvel has Elders, Babylonians, Rave, House of Rave, etc."


###########
pre-Shango:

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 8:21 pm
The Simian knows the Babylonians. They need to plan the legal checkmate perfectly. They know that the elder knows his way around the palace. All gates need to be shut.
###########

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….


Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:52 am
 The Simian’s umbilical is buried close to the heart of the island.  (his living, how he eats)


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:29 pm
Some windows overlooking Babylon have been opened

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno,
not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare! (there are 46 hotels)

Sounds like the Simian is a Babylonian........


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on December 27, 2007, 06:55:57 PM
I thought the guy with short hair was Leo Burke or Burke Leo, can't remember, member of ALE and suspected of being one of the riddlers.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 27, 2007, 07:34:34 PM
http://www.visitaruba.com/attractions/whatson/carnival1999/claudius/

Here's a link to a page that has Claudius' picture from 1999.  For whatever reason, I was remembering him with longer hair...must be thinking of someone else. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 27, 2007, 07:37:16 PM
I thought the guy with short hair was Leo Burke or Burke Leo, can't remember, member of ALE and suspected of being one of the riddlers.

Clyde Burke....iirc, he's a musician as well as ALE.   


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 27, 2007, 07:46:42 PM
I thought the guy with short hair was Leo Burke or Burke Leo, can't remember, member of ALE and suspected of being one of the riddlers.

Clyde Burke....iirc, he's a musician as well as ALE.   

Lots of musicians...Paulus...Rudy Croes...

Darn Lala's will be mad...Colombo was here  :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 27, 2007, 08:16:35 PM
I thought the guy with short hair was Leo Burke or Burke Leo, can't remember, member of ALE and suspected of being one of the riddlers.

Clyde Burke....iirc, he's a musician as well as ALE.   

Lots of musicians...Paulus...Rudy Croes...

Darn Lala's will be mad...Colombo was here  :lol:

Yes, and I read Colombo's post 5 times trying to understand....not sure where the quotes end there......last sentence said Simian seems to be a Babylonian...did Colombo really say that, or did someone else?   :-?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on December 27, 2007, 08:27:51 PM
Even though Shango may have been "into" Marvel comic books doesn't mean he didn't know the routine on that rock. MOO


Seems just about everybody knew the routine on that rock, lol.

Except, of course, the intended marks, the young female American tourists.  Even Dennis Jacobs knew the routine and said so.

I believe some of the rave talk was the other game of chollers taking tourists to drug houses, etc.

Lots of games in Aruba.

.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on December 27, 2007, 08:30:03 PM
Lala's,
I will look late tonight for any more pics I still have Shango related.  I have some that I have no idea what they pertain to but are filed under Holloway files.  Will post if I find anything I think relates to S/S.

.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on December 28, 2007, 02:54:54 AM
Automatically translated text:   
On Sunday, June 19, 2005 19:33 wrote milagro the following:


     [..]

     Ms. strange it is, yes.

     That son has a kind of thought I appartementje own, to his parents' house, own entrance therefore, I assume, so I assume again, that zoonlief can come and go without Ma and Pa in the eye, and how or what Who etc.


     Zoonlief to 06.30 tomorrow benefited from the 5th suspect, which is only recently revealed, it is that the 5th man now suspected,.
     Mss want them now only know from Dad or something he noticed that morning and drive to a third party or something


I thought that this is the fourth suspect was one Steven Croes? Question wondering what is true of these two Dutch (not surinaamse) brothers and a colombiaan suspected? I think half of that island is suspected, how many people live there?

In short, strange mess with all these stories that you read, they sleuren more and more people, to the son of youknowwho to save ofzo. There is no ass of the whole story, and I wonder whether it only by the news of the amerikanen. I think there is also something very tilted sits on Aruba (skating them there are ash, and also straight or tilted?)



http://forum.fok.nl/topic/716218


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 28, 2007, 07:36:27 AM
I thought the guy with short hair was Leo Burke or Burke Leo, can't remember, member of ALE and suspected of being one of the riddlers.

Clyde Burke....iirc, he's a musician as well as ALE.   

Lots of musicians...Paulus...Rudy Croes...

Darn Lala's will be mad...Colombo was here  :lol:

Yes, and I read Colombo's post 5 times trying to understand....not sure where the quotes end there......last sentence said Simian seems to be a Babylonian...did Colombo really say that, or did someone else?   :-?


Did a quick search for that quote and nothing. Will look again later. IMO Colombo says it, but not positive. I do remember a lot of discussion about the 46 hotels a while back and posted the other day about room #7114.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on December 28, 2007, 11:42:01 AM
I thought the guy with short hair was Leo Burke or Burke Leo, can't remember, member of ALE and suspected of being one of the riddlers.

Clyde Burke....iirc, he's a musician as well as ALE.   

Lots of musicians...Paulus...Rudy Croes...

Darn Lala's will be mad...Colombo was here  :lol:

Yes, and I read Colombo's post 5 times trying to understand....not sure where the quotes end there......last sentence said Simian seems to be a Babylonian...did Colombo really say that, or did someone else?   :-?


Did a quick search for that quote and nothing. Will look again later. IMO Colombo says it, but not positive. I do remember a lot of discussion about the 46 hotels a while back and posted the other day about room #7114.

Yes, I remember all of those older discussions, too.  Thanks for the response, Mum. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 30, 2007, 10:03:18 AM
The 5th Suspect

All of a sudden, it seems we have more 'supects' than witnesses! Now I'm between three! Oh wait, I meant four!

Just have to see which one has the 'alibi that needs to be broken'! LOL, all four of mine do! And if I really 'think outside the box' I have five! :lol:

Will do some reading and hopefully will be back on track by the morning! :-?





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 30, 2007, 11:06:56 AM
For the sake of information I have chosen to bring a few posts over from last night.  It's all about Lorenzo...yes that guy...again. Thanks monkeys for thinking outside the box with me...

Gabby
   
   
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #708 12/28
« Reply #734 on: December 29, 2007, 11:47:43 PM »
   Reply with quoteQuote
Quote from: ******* on December 29, 2007, 09:18:10 PM
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:01 pm
The first guy she met has all the motive. The second guy is scared sh*tless in a cell.
---------------
No idea who else this could be from everyone we know in this case. The only BF I can possibly think of earlier in the week would be GVC. Rubbing against her while dancing at C&C or possibly being the one in a uniform that was seen talking to her. The person was described as being a local man in his 20's,too old to be GVC.

I don't see Joran being scared shi*less of any of the pimps or witnesses we have talked about in this case. Unless it's Andre Meneses or someone else who's name is not in the case files and is some type of Colombian Drug lord or dangerous person that somehow is the 5th suspect.

I believe it's Lorenzo, I have believed he was involved since very early in the case. And...IF he is connected to drug running, drug lords, etc. he IS someone jvds would be scared of, I believe. This would very possibly also explain how he has managed to stay out of the limelight, IF he is in fact connected to drug lords. Aruba is run by drug money, prostitution, etc. Personally I believe that the ALE in the beginning were afraid of the drug lords, and because of Lorenzo's connections he was protected. This would explain him being "interrogated" and released early in the case and nothing more mentioned about him until just recently. For me it would explain a lot of other things also. Lorenzo was said to have a "cigarette" boat. With his connections he could easily find people to cover for him that night, giving him his alibi.
During the first week of the case I read that Natalee had dinner on Friday night with someone named Lorenzo. This was the first time I had heard that name in connection with this case, this is when I first became aware of Lorenzo. I made some notes, and when I went back later on to find where I had read that, it was gone...poof. I have since read that Natalee had dinner with "someone" but Lorenzo's name was no longer mentioned. I believe this because I saw it for myself, I read it myself...so I think they did meet, that Lorenzo did have occasion to see Natalee and be around her a bit. We have all seen her in the videos, have seen how beautifully she moved, how softly she spoke, how gentle her demeanor was. She had "Class" written all over her, just the kind of female someone like Lorenzo would enjoy getting to know better, would like to put his mark on. Because of these things I believe it's very possible that Lorenzo is somehow involved. JMHO tho, as always.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 30, 2007, 11:09:09 AM
*******
Global Moderator

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #708 12/28
« Reply #735 on: December 29, 2007, 11:50:59 PM »
   Reply with quoteQuote
Interesting reading this Dutch blog,located 2 friends of Joran,HI casino worker and a classmate of Gillam Van Der Straaten. Still nothing terribly interesting..I do see they were speculating a bit after Anita's Interview and reading at SM and RWV  Wink

   Quote:
     On Wednesday, June 29, 2005 11:22 wrote TheMassive the following:

     [..]

     Anyone who says he knows more?

Well for example, this video:

Http://www.planet.nl/plan (...) 592111/sc id = = # 15f6ca

In the latter piece says the mother of Joran he said to her:
"I should have brought her to a responsible adult. That I blame myself and I will blame my whole life. "

This means quite sure that Van der Sloot Jr. There are many more of af know mi Meanwhile he continues to silence them or did he perhaps to the Aruban police said (and therefore not known to the media) and the Aruban police / justice tries all appropriate gluing pieces together. I read somewhere that one of Scared Monkeys Lorenzo also is interrogated in this case but has a good alibi provided by his friends who argue that it all night that night at home. This shows afterparty's organizing in Aruba and is a "crazy" once described his father (a VW dealer) has committed suicide. It also was suggested that he SM on the days before Natalee was missing and before they Joran onmoette with her would be raised, or a relationship would have had. Meanwhile, the rumors but still ... The observation in this video AvdS I then suspect whether there is not another in the game and there is much more to the matter than hitherto in the media is telling. Right?

The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes. - Marcel Proust

BwennieBren
1 + 1 = 11
Wednesday, June 29, 2005 @ 14:13


BTW some information on that Lorenzo:

     Quote:
     According to AmericaninAruba, Lorenzo has a house on the main road of Savaneta and also another one in Seroe Alejandro.

     By AmericaninAruba:

     The Lorenzo guy who was questioned yesterday is known for having underground parties at one of his houses. The house is rather isolated and surrounded by lots of brush and cactus.

     A poster from Aruba on Scared Monkeys is claiming that in addition to SGC, there was another guy detained yesterday. This other guy, Lorenzo, is known to be wild and crazy, especially since his father killed himself a few years ago, according to the poster.

     The other person, a "Lorenzo" who was allegedly questioned yesterday, is a crazy dude whose father owned the local VW dealership but the father offed himself a few years ago.

     Lorenzo the character - hsi father owned the Vwagen distributor here…. But after his father committed suicide family they sold th ebusiness…

     The SBC (this mornigns judgement) - i have no idea!

     The lorenzo guy reportedly has connections to drugs and parties. The someone named Lorenzo was detained and questioned yesterday, but we do not think he has been arrested yet. He is known to be a nutcase, maybe capable of something. His dad owned the Volkswagon dealership there but committed suicide 3 years ago and was found hanging in the hallway of their home. Finally, someone suggested that maybe Natalee was taken to an "underground party". Other posters have explained that these parties are thrown after the bars close, that they are supposed to get permissions they have before them, that the police quickly close down any parties that do not have permission, but that Lorenzo lives out away from town and does throw parties and the police do not close those down as easily.

     This "Lorenzo" kid's name was mentioned from the very beginning .. In fact it is the first name I heard when this whole thing started…. My guess is that he must have been involved with her sometime during her trip, and that they are now bringing in EVERYBODY that had come in contact with her…. (From what I hear, "lorenzo" ONE troublemaker……) I do not know him, but I know he has had problems with the law before… .. something about a fight at one of his parties…. Cannot remember the details…

     Does anyone remember the one first couple of night we were all talk ing someone basically said, "when this all shakes out there are going to be major ramifications, there are ppl involved that are high up" .. And it is not gonna be pretty…. Sounds like this guy knew something about the actual crime… this was heading in the other area before we had this forum .. Does anyone remember and also, do you know who this might have been…

     I do not know if his name is Lorenzo or not… But from the very beginning "the son of an ex Vwagen dealer" was somehow involved… .. He was the first one mentioned….

The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes. - Marcel Proust

http://forum.fok.nl/topic/718927/6/50
   

*******
Global Moderator
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #708 12/28
« Reply #736 on: Today at 12:12:42 AM »
   Reply with quoteQuote
Gabby,

There is a article at RWV I believe that talked about the lunch date or whatever with Lorenzo. Also there was a seperate discussion on it at boostunit.com(Arubans)before they took it down. It was him that some people speculated that Natalee ate/met with. I'M not sure why or how that rumor got around so early in the case. I just wish we had one more solid piece of evidence to link this all together.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on December 30, 2007, 04:46:22 PM
what, according to Shango-was being kept hidden? a suspect????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 30, 2007, 10:12:48 PM
There are some interesting things in here I did not know about Lorenzo...thanks Anna. I am a little confused about the escort thing...I must have missed a lot there.  You enlightened me to a lot of things here.

Anna
Monkey All Star
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #708 12/28
« Reply #754 on: Today at 07:53:06 AM »
   Reply with quoteQuote
In my opinion:

Half the time, you have the wrong Lorenzo.  Lorenzo van Rijn is not the one with the escort services at all.  He is a RECLUSE.  This means he does not go to night clubs or casinos much at all if ever.  He does not have RAVE parties and his nickname is not XTC.  My source for this is two people on the island.

He grows weed and from the looks of it, I would suspect that it is that Nederweed.  Some of the Dutch have turned their exquisite and exceptional botanical skills to the development of this product which is reported to be ten times stronger than regular pot.

The "party" the night Natalee disappeared had six people in attendance if you want to call that a Rave.  Did you ever think people might be protective of him because he suffers from problems and his father committed suicide making him four time more likely to do so himself by statistics?

He is no more Joran's half brother than I am and Jossy has always qualified any statements about him, which are ALWAYS in answer to a question and never just on his own, with it is a rumor or "it is said."  That is a pure Julia rumor if I ever heard one, straight out of soap opera lore.  He was born in Aruba before Paulus moved there for one thing.

He was questioned because of his previous drug arrests back when he did deal in XTC to see if they asked him to buy drugs or if he had sold them any X or GHB.  If he were really Joran's half brother or anything could be pinned on him, I believe Joran would have mentioned him in his book and certainly Anita and her minions from hell would have been doing so long ago.

In my opinion only but most of that I have verified with TWO sources from the island.  Where are his photos in the bars, etc.?  There aren't any because he is so reclusive.  Of course you can continue to stalk him if you like but it's a waste of time and this has been told several times to different people from islanders and yet it is just ignored.  Odd, that.

Flame away. . . . I just don't think it's right to try to force people to be involved who aren't.

.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 31, 2007, 09:45:59 AM
what, according to Shango-was being kept hidden? a suspect????


Columbo it could be Natalee or a suspect(s):
Natalee:

quote
Nancy grace 6/14/2005
MICKEY JOHN, FORMER ARUBA SUSPECT: He told me that the story about dropping the girl off at the Holiday Inn was all made up.

QUESTION: Why? Why would they make it up?

MICKEY JOHN: Because he told me, apparently, that no one -- somebody`s missing, like a young tourist person missing. They find him, like, a few days after at some crack house or with some beach bum. So they thought they would find her three days after. When push come to shove and they couldn`t get her, they decided to target-shoot. He told (ph) his brother (INAUDIBLE) target-shoot.

Suspect(s)

From June 8th 2005 Nancy Grace....they do not appear to be talking about the Kalpoes.

 IMO  Maybe Koen and Sander

GRACE: OK, let me quickly go to defense attorney Daniel Horowitz standing by. Daniel Horowitz, this is basically bass-ackwards from the way that it works in America. Because you don`t arrest somebody and put them in a cell of an administration building by the jail unless you`ve got a case against them. You don`t get arrested while the state, while the prosecutor, tries to put together a case.

DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Exactly, Nancy. And there`s a problem with this, also. It focuses on these two men so much, and it doesn`t give them the freedom to be out and prove their innocence or gather evidence on their own behalf. You know, Nancy, these guys could be patsies. I`m concerned about those three rich kids who were with this young lady and supposedly dropped her off at a hotel and then she just vanishes. I don`t like the idea of the focus on these two guys alone.

GRACE: Let me go back to Karl Penhaul on that very issue. Karl Penhaul, CNN correspondent, is with us in Aruba. Karl, there are murmurings to that exact issue, that these two security guards are being targeted while the actual guys that were with her, that took her away from the restaurant, have been set free. Explain. Why are these two being held? Did they run into the girl after the other three let her go? I mean, why are they being held and the other three have been let go? Is it true they are from rich or influential families, while these two are not? PENHAUL: That`s the question on a lot of people`s lips right now, Nancy. We`ve been talking around. We`ve also been talking to the suspects` families. A number of answers to that. The three young men last seen in the company of Natalee Holloway outside Carlos and Charlie`s, we understand, were never arrested, were never detained by police. Yes, they were interviewed. But the police in a press conference earlier this week have said that no evidence in terms of the car that they all drove away in was confiscated at any stage. Meanwhile, the two suspects, three of their vehicles have been confiscated. One of the suspect`s mother`s cars, a cousin`s car, I believe, and one of the cars belonging to one of the suspects. Those are being looked at, even though there`s nothing, apparently, according to the defense attorneys, in any witness statement to suggest that Natalee Holloway was ever seen in the company of these two suspects, let alone got in their cars.

As far as the identities of the three people, the young men that are being named or were named as persons of interest, indeed, they do seem to be from influential families, certainly middle-class families, a little difficult in this context to spell out exactly whom they are.


But what the mother of Mickey John -- Antonius John, but Mickey his mother calls him -- what she says is that here what is at stake, or one part of the problem is, is that there`s a race issue here, because the people, the three young men are of influential, middle-class, largely white families, descendents of the Dutch colonizers that once came here, whereas the two suspects are from black immigrant families who maybe have been here for many years but nevertheless are still regarded as immigrants.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 31, 2007, 09:55:23 AM

Lala's...I posted this in the other thread yesterday and am not sure if you saw it! Not sure if you saw the post about J’s book so will get the link and repost it here as it will be easier to see!

In regards to the 5th. suspect.I have always thought Freddy, because of the photo and 'whose hand' Well yesterday I found the photo with Freddy and J2K and the one with just J2K.

And yesterday I realised that there is another hand in that photo!    :shock:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 31, 2007, 11:40:48 AM

Lala’s….Please read Chapters 3, 4 and 5 very carefully. I will email you after you’ve read it, regarding my observations.


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1117.0


Columbo…I just posted a rather long post about another possibility for a ‘hidden’ suspect in the other thread. If you check my last posts you will find it.








Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JuJu on December 31, 2007, 06:56:44 PM
All of this emailing business drives me insane.  Why don't you just post your observations here?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on December 31, 2007, 07:38:43 PM
All of this emailing business drives me insane.  Why don't you just post your observations here?

JuJu.....I am sorry, but my observations on this are way out of the box and if I post here I will be totally flamed! Again, I apologize.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on December 31, 2007, 08:37:56 PM

Lala’s….Please read Chapters 3, 4 and 5 very carefully. I will email you after you’ve read it, regarding my observations.


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1117.0


Columbo…I just posted a rather long post about another possibility for a ‘hidden’ suspect in the other thread. If you check my last posts you will find it.








OK Mum...I am finished reading the chapters...please let me know your thoughts.  I am eager to hear them. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 01, 2008, 02:36:53 PM
Interesting! Some light reading for New Year’s Day and seeing Simian told me to look it up, I did. May be our ‘bird on the wire’! I don't think these links will work :sad: and the last one has a must read article by Ms JA, the friend of mine and Frank's.


The 10-year agreements governing these facilities limit their use to counter-drug missions, mainly those of aircraft seeking to detect and monitor illegal drug-smuggling in the huge “transit zone” between the Andes and the United States’ southern border.
The agreements governing all three sites will be up for renewal within the next four years


news.nacla.org/2007/09/18/monitoring-the-us-military-presence-in-latin-america/



Forward Operating Location (FOL). Funding was provided to maintain and operate the FOL in Aruba. This FOL
consists of 1 facility which is a building. FOL Aruba provides an overflow capability to facilitate counterdrug detection and monitoring operations within the USSOUTHCOM AOR. FOL Aruba provides communication and contracting support to aircrews. (PC9500) Total FY05 Funding: $1.534M. Cost breakout is as follows:
·   Bandwidth expense ($500K) ·   
             Civil engineering/contracting support to building/ramp projects ($552K)
·   Direct support to include Air Expeditionary Forces Communication person per diem and travel, lodging, environmental baseline study, and miscellaneous contracts ($430K)
·   Air Combat Command Program Management System expense ($50K)
·   Base operating support contract support ($2K)

http://www.ciponline.org/colombia/blog/archives/000347.htm








Interesting article from someone we have discussed. Very interesting!


http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/48722.pdf



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 01, 2008, 03:39:56 PM
I have been rereading early archives...once again...looking for something found a few interesting tidbits I thought I would post here. 

NativeLingo
Rumor of Breaking News
« Reply #963 on: June 13, 2005, 11:16:02 PM »
   
To recap:

JVD told one of the guards that he was dropped at home after CnC....
brothers were left w/ Nat

Deepak told the other guard that they went to Arashi/lighthouse, and that afterards they dropped Joran and NH at the fishermen's hut. After an hour or so Joran sent a msg to the brothers saying that they needed to meet....


Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:54 pm
I can confirm they are there. The 3 of them. Remember the Kalpoes know nothing they were informed aournd the pool deck by Joran.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 01, 2008, 04:05:05 PM
Dan has supposedly been working on this for most of the night of  Junes 13, 2005.  Keep in mind this was before he turned dark side on everyone and seemed to go off the deep end or at least before he let his site go off the deep end.  Thought some would like to see it...talks about several things of interest.


Posted by Whitney
June 14, 1:14 AM


Here if you can't get on:


I Apologize

Certain facts demanded re-confirming - now done. There is much more coming. I will complete this tonight, I promise. I had no intention of doing a partial post and if you wish, please go to bed. It will be here in the AM. Arrgh! And my editor has gone to bed, so forgive me. Excuse any typos.

Initial part:

The trip from Mountain Brook, Georgia to Aruba was not an official "school" trip, but an organized celebration for a group of mostly carefree and deservedly celebratory seniors from Mountain Brook High School, as well as some attendees from other surrounding schools. The last a fact that has gone mostly unreported.

While adults were involved in the organization of the trip, waivers were signed by students, and or parents, as appropriate. While adult chaperons traveled along for general oversight, it was reasonably clear and well established that, excepting for a clear and known emergency, the bold, bright faces of MBHS were, in some ways, almost striking out on their own for their very first time in an island paradise considered at least as safe as the streets of many American towns.  They were celebrating years of hard work and sacrifice paid to earn their way into, in many cases, some of the better colleges of America.

Mountain Brook is home to a class of people some would describe as too well-off and perhaps a bit over-privileged; while still others will tell you it is the heart of an America that works hard for its money, establishes and runs banks and various businesses and fuels the great engine of commerce which funds the American dream.

Sun-tanned and not-rested, much as any bright new life might find itself glowing after a mostly uneventful but fully enjoyable trip, seniors were expected to be in the lobby of the Holiday Inn by 10:30 on Monday morning to assemble for the journey home. One young blond face of a reportedly mostly shy girl named Natalee Holloway never did join the gathering there.

Assuming she had simply stayed the night in another room with other friends, Natalee's roommates gathered up her belongings - luggage, purse, cell phone, and passport, bringing them down to the now crowding lobby in preparation for their flight home.  As the bus began to load, adults began to ask questions of the seniors as to why the missing Natalee might not be there. Her friends stated that she had left Carlos and Charlies with a local boy.
 
It was decided that the students and 6 of the 7 chaperons for the trip would go on to the airport so as to not miss their flight back home. Many of the chaperones were veterans of the trip as it had become almost a ritual having been undertaken without incident for the past five, or so years. The remaining chaperone, who was not my source for this story, kept her belongings, including cell phone, in case she turned up at the hotel.

Had she made a youthful misjudgment, maybe over-slept somewhere? Or, was she perhaps simply too embarrassed for having made a choice many might characterize as unusual for the girl? It's impossible to under-speculate as to what thoughts likely passed through the mind of a presumably worried chaperone sitting alone in a hotel lobby waiting for the return of an increasingly missed young girl.

Local police were first notified of the situation at approximately 11:30 AM, one hour after the seniors scheduled departure from the hotel lobby.  A member of the beach patrol was dispatched to take a report and collect a copy of her passport for identification purposes.

Hotel staff interacted with the chaperone, answering questions and putting forth possible explanations prior to the travel agent for the trip being contacted at approximately 2PM. That is believed to be close to the time of the departing flight, though the exact time of the flight is unconfirmed. The travel agent then contacted Natalee's family.

The parents and several high profile Birmingham business men left Birmingham around 4:30 CST on a private jet owned by one of the men, G. Ruffner Page, Jr., President of McWane Inc. - one of Alabama's s largest private companies.  The private plane is owned by the company.  Natalee's parents placed several calls regarding the troubling developments prior to their departure for Aruba. AT approximately 5:00 CST a member of the US DEA contacted the remaining chaperone.  The DEA representative was on Aruba on another matter and the two individuals agreed to meet that evening back at the Holiday Inn.

By now the seniors, save one notable exception were back in Atlanta and several received incoming calls from Aruba from Natalee's cell phone. Unfortunately, what some thought was the re-appearance of their missing friend turned out to be more questions about her disappearance from the chaperone back in Aruba. Attempting to provide as much helpful information as possible the chaperone was informed that the boy with whom Natalee left Carlos and Charlies was somewhat known for having had played poker with several of their male classmates during the course of the trip. They identified the local boy only as Joran.

Posted by Dan in News | Permalink


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 01, 2008, 06:22:45 PM
Interesting! Some light reading for New Year’s Day and seeing Simian told me to look it up, I did. May be our ‘bird on the wire’! I don't think these links will work :sad: and the last one has a must read article by Ms JA, the friend of mine and Frank's.


The 10-year agreements governing these facilities limit their use to counter-drug missions, mainly those of aircraft seeking to detect and monitor illegal drug-smuggling in the huge “transit zone” between the Andes and the United States’ southern border.
The agreements governing all three sites will be up for renewal within the next four years


news.nacla.org/2007/09/18/monitoring-the-us-military-presence-in-latin-america/



Forward Operating Location (FOL). Funding was provided to maintain and operate the FOL in Aruba. This FOL
consists of 1 facility which is a building. FOL Aruba provides an overflow capability to facilitate counterdrug detection and monitoring operations within the USSOUTHCOM AOR. FOL Aruba provides communication and contracting support to aircrews. (PC9500) Total FY05 Funding: $1.534M. Cost breakout is as follows:
·   Bandwidth expense ($500K) ·   
             Civil engineering/contracting support to building/ramp projects ($552K)
·   Direct support to include Air Expeditionary Forces Communication person per diem and travel, lodging, environmental baseline study, and miscellaneous contracts ($430K)
·   Air Combat Command Program Management System expense ($50K)
·   Base operating support contract support ($2K)

http://www.ciponline.org/colombia/blog/archives/000347.htm








Interesting article from someone we have discussed. Very interesting!


http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/48722.pdf



Thanks Mum...I am trying to figure how to just capture that one article and post it.  It is very interesting...especially the part about the DEA....thanks.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 01, 2008, 06:53:54 PM
Interesting! Some light reading for New Year’s Day and seeing Simian told me to look it up, I did. May be our ‘bird on the wire’! I don't think these links will work :sad: and the last one has a must read article by Ms JA, the friend of mine and Frank's.


The 10-year agreements governing these facilities limit their use to counter-drug missions, mainly those of aircraft seeking to detect and monitor illegal drug-smuggling in the huge “transit zone” between the Andes and the United States’ southern border.
The agreements governing all three sites will be up for renewal within the next four years


news.nacla.org/2007/09/18/monitoring-the-us-military-presence-in-latin-america/



Forward Operating Location (FOL). Funding was provided to maintain and operate the FOL in Aruba. This FOL
consists of 1 facility which is a building. FOL Aruba provides an overflow capability to facilitate counterdrug detection and monitoring operations within the USSOUTHCOM AOR. FOL Aruba provides communication and contracting support to aircrews. (PC9500) Total FY05 Funding: $1.534M. Cost breakout is as follows:
·   Bandwidth expense ($500K) ·   
             Civil engineering/contracting support to building/ramp projects ($552K)
·   Direct support to include Air Expeditionary Forces Communication person per diem and travel, lodging, environmental baseline study, and miscellaneous contracts ($430K)
·   Air Combat Command Program Management System expense ($50K)
·   Base operating support contract support ($2K)

http://www.ciponline.org/colombia/blog/archives/000347.htm








Interesting article from someone we have discussed. Very interesting!


http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/48722.pdf



Thanks Mum...I am trying to figure how to just capture that one article and post it.  It is very interesting...especially the part about the DEA....thanks.


Klaas should be able to tell you, I know there's something a little weird with pdf's. But I recall her telling Ibe how to do it once.

OK...lots of reading here too, maybe it's time to start discussing, but I'll post these first.

Van der straten said; front page June10th.2005
Deputy Police Chief Jan van der Straten said Holloway met van der Sloot in the casino attached to her hotel two days before she disappeared. Family friends say Holloway knew that van der Sloot had spent much of the week playing cards in the casino with a group of boys from the trip.
Employees at the Holiday Inn casino said van der Sloot and ....I accidently snipped this, but it said his friends had been seen around. I believe it was Jaime and Freddy from other things that I've posted.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 01, 2008, 07:15:39 PM
This post has been bothering me ever since I started reading here and when Rembrandt was mentioned this week on the other thread, I decided to revisit it.
       ----------------------------------------------------------

Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:23 pm Post subject: The florin
Although the coin has the orange's regal visage on one side if you flip it you will see who runs the show.

There are rules that need to be respected and laws that need to be obeyed. Heinlein was right. The downfall will be embarrassing.
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------

If you search Rembrandt and florin and coin, you'll get lots of hits, but I don't think this one has anything to do with Lorenzo. On the back of all the coins I looked at I found the coat of arms.

From Wiki:

The Coat of Arms of Aruba was originally designed in Amsterdam in 1955. Since then it has been in use as the national symbol of Aruba. There are seven main elements to the symbol:

The lion at the top of the crest symbolizes power.
A white cross on the crest that also serves to divide the crest into four quadrants is representative of devotion to faith.
Below the crest is a pair of laurel leaves, traditional symbols of peace.
The upper right quadrant of the crest depicts Hooiberg, the most recognizable hill of Aruba, and the second highest hill as well.
Below it, in the lower right quadrant a wheel represents industry.
In the upper left quadrant is an aloe plant, aloe being a source of income for the island, and its first important export.
Finally, the lower left quadrant depicts hands shaking, symbolic of Aruba's good relations with the world.


So who runs the show? The lions, the industry-tourism,hotels or the owner of the aloe plant.( I thought I read a long time ago that this was a relative of Posner).We have references to dens: (This is reported to be a fake), regardless if it is or isn't it intrigues me. :wink:

124: Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 1:55 am
Find the music
Only David left the den alive





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 01, 2008, 07:41:36 PM
Automatically translated text:   
On Sunday, June 19, 2005 19:33 wrote milagro the following:


     [..]

     Ms. strange it is, yes.

     That son has a kind of thought I appartementje own, to his parents' house, own entrance therefore, I assume, so I assume again, that zoonlief can come and go without Ma and Pa in the eye, and how or what Who etc.


     Zoonlief to 06.30 tomorrow benefited from the 5th suspect, which is only recently revealed, it is that the 5th man now suspected,.
     Mss want them now only know from Dad or something he noticed that morning and drive to a third party or something


I thought that this is the fourth suspect was one Steven Croes? Question wondering what is true of these two Dutch (not surinaamse) brothers and a colombiaan suspected? I think half of that island is suspected, how many people live there?

In short, strange mess with all these stories that you read, they sleuren more and more people, to the son of youknowwho to save ofzo. There is no ass of the whole story, and I wonder whether it only by the news of the amerikanen. I think there is also something very tilted sits on Aruba (skating them there are ash, and also straight or tilted?)



http://forum.fok.nl/topic/716218


*******...Thanks....The two Dutch brothers and a Columbian could be Koen and Sander, or Joran and Lorenzo? and Jaime? I'm beginning to think the Gottenbos boys may be up to their eyeballs in this.  Lala's posted on the other thread yesterday a post about two arrests on 6/11. Somebodies,IMO more than one, are being protected big time and it certainly isn't the Kalpoes.

Been reading the old front page posts and things really started to heat up out there on June 6th, when Gabe Leo started posting. J2Ks weren't even arrested until June 9th.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 01, 2008, 07:56:16 PM
I have been rereading early archives...once again...looking for something found a few interesting tidbits I thought I would post here. 

NativeLingo
Rumor of Breaking News
« Reply #963 on: June 13, 2005, 11:16:02 PM »
   
To recap:

JVD told one of the guards that he was dropped at home after CnC....
brothers were left w/ Nat

Deepak told the other guard that they went to Arashi/lighthouse, and that afterards they dropped Joran and NH at the fishermen's hut. After an hour or so Joran sent a msg to the brothers saying that they needed to meet....


Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:54 pm
I can confirm they are there. The 3 of them. Remember the Kalpoes know nothing they were informed aournd the pool deck by Joran.



I'm beginning to think that this is at least a possibility! Will have to revisit the other posts referencing the Kalpoes with this in mind.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 01, 2008, 08:25:41 PM

The 10-year agreements governing these facilities limit their use to counter-drug missions, mainly those of aircraft seeking to detect and monitor illegal drug-smuggling in the huge “transit zone” between the Andes and the United States’ southern border.
The agreements governing all three sites will be up for renewal within the next four years


news.nacla.org/2007/09/18/monitoring-the-us-military-presence-in-latin-america/


This could be the reason the delegation came from Aruba to meet with Senior US officials. No matter what they saw or heard they could not use it for anything other than counter-drug enforcement. IMO...they know and cannot use it! That would sure make those Arubans a little cocky, don't you think?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 01, 2008, 10:40:28 PM
Last one...from the Lorenzo thread...thanks *******

Rob posted on July 17, 2006 at 08:52:13 PM:
Joran stayed at Lorenzos in the days before Natalee went missing...everyone was gone to Holland but joran.. he stayed there with Lorenzo....Im getting some more info on this but I will wait to get the whole story before saying anymore...

GrannyToad posted on July 17, 2006 at 08:59:36 PM:
Rob you just knocked me flat over. I hate when you do that.


Rob posted on July 17, 2006 at 08:59:36 PM:
Sorry GT.. I dont know everything yet.. I do know that much so far...he was totally unaccounted for while the rest of the family was out of town...I suspect he was driving a vehicle owned by someone other that a family member.. he was getting around some how...He was going to the casino and other events, and he wasnt relying on deeeeepak for all of those rides...

He is a close associate of lorenzo, who also just had his name de-capitalized.

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=4095.msg130307#msg130307

I will talk to you later about Vadir Van Loen. Someone Named HARRY is getting him mixed up with my Pal, Lorenzo Van Rijn.
;^)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

October 6, 2005

Beth Twitty appeared on Catherine Crier to talk about the Deepak interview among other things. The two discussed the current relationship between Joran and the Kalpoe brothers. At the moment Joran is in the Netherlands while the two brothers reside in Aruba. We also learn that Joran has a half-brother in Aruba who is a known DRUG DEALER. Beth notes that the brother is a possible suspect.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 A poster from Aruba on Scared Monkeys is claiming that in addition to SGC, there was another guy detained yesterday. This other guy, Lorenzo, is known to be wild and crazy, especially since his father killed himself a few years ago, according to the poster.

     The other person, a "Lorenzo" who was allegedly questioned yesterday, is a crazy dude whose father owned the local VW dealership but the father offed himself a few years ago.

              --------------------------------------------------

And this from Sharon:quote:

Thanks for all this *******. I rarely strayed from SM back then. 

I posted several old FP articles earlier (in this thread I think).

All seem to report the same information. But are never specific as to WHO. There is so much confusion about the reporting of the 'arrest', 'detainment' 'questioning' pf Steve Croes and Lorenzo.

So...which one???

He is a friend of Jorans's? (joran says he does not know Croes -- so the deduction is Lorenzo)

His father committed suicide? (we're told this is Lorenzo)

His father is a promonent businessman. (that only leaves Croes???)

He was brought in due to the (witness) statements of 2 Dutch brothers? (must be Lorenzo because Croes 'volunteered' the info. The Dutch brothers -- must be Koen and Sander who mentioned Lorenzo -- but why?)

The information over these 2 'questionings is way more convoluted than what we've come to expect from the land of liars. Who is being protected in this 'branch' of the coverup tree? And why? We certainly don't find much from/about Koen either. They're all involved in some way -- knowledgeable about SOME aspect of the case. The drugging. The assault. The filming. The death. The disappearance. The disappearance. The disappearance.
 
 




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 02, 2008, 09:36:47 AM



Re Steve Croes and the discussion of the two dogs last night. – posted in the other thread, but added Simian’s mentions of fetid.

Joran says Deepak came with two dogs. San posted a link to GVC’s with two big dogs. Koen’s house has a big gate which could keep in two dogs. LVR had dogs. We’ve heard that Joran had dogs. Even Simian mentions dogs. Simian also mentions fetid mongrels and fetid packages from the Hague IIRC.

A bloody mattress that was reported to have dog’s blood on it. Did they kill two dogs that night? If so, whose dogs were they?



50.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The cowboys’ steel and wires are screaming. The dirty water is large, deep and too wide, but they are sure there is light on their screen.
The Babylonians will be proven right. All along they were right. The story given by the gamblers might check out after all.
Posted Jun 27, 10:59 AM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Natalee Holloway; Breaking Aruba News .... Croes Released ... Now Paul Van der Sloot” | View Post

51.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Babylonians and the cowboys have swarmed the dirty waters. The dead dogs are stinking.
Posted Jun 27, 10:51 AM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Natalee Holloway; Breaking Aruba News .... Croes Released ... Now Paul Van der Sloot” | View Post


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 02, 2008, 10:27:12 AM
This post has been bothering me ever since I started reading here and when Rembrandt was mentioned this week on the other thread, I decided to revisit it.
       ----------------------------------------------------------

Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:23 pm Post subject: The florin
Although the coin has the orange's regal visage on one side if you flip it you will see who runs the show.

There are rules that need to be respected and laws that need to be obeyed. Heinlein was right. The downfall will be embarrassing.
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------

If you search Rembrandt and florin and coin, you'll get lots of hits, but I don't think this one has anything to do with Lorenzo. On the back of all the coins I looked at I found the coat of arms.

From Wiki:

The Coat of Arms of Aruba was originally designed in Amsterdam in 1955. Since then it has been in use as the national symbol of Aruba. There are seven main elements to the symbol:

The lion at the top of the crest symbolizes power.
A white cross on the crest that also serves to divide the crest into four quadrants is representative of devotion to faith.
Below the crest is a pair of laurel leaves, traditional symbols of peace.
The upper right quadrant of the crest depicts Hooiberg, the most recognizable hill of Aruba, and the second highest hill as well.
Below it, in the lower right quadrant a wheel represents industry.
In the upper left quadrant is an aloe plant, aloe being a source of income for the island, and its first important export.
Finally, the lower left quadrant depicts hands shaking, symbolic of Aruba's good relations with the world.


So who runs the show? The lions, the industry-tourism,hotels or the owner of the aloe plant.( I thought I read a long time ago that this was a relative of Posner).We have references to dens: (This is reported to be a fake), regardless if it is or isn't it intrigues me. :wink:

124: Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 1:55 am
Find the music
Only David left the den alive





You are beginning to find those quirky things like I have.  I wish I had saved a lot of things that one of the original code talkers sent to me, but it was on my other hard drive that died not long ago.  It was about this very subject.  As we have seen the biggest thing in Aruba is tourism...that is just a nice way to launder dirty money...handled by dirty hands.  Shango says the gamblers knew...try substituting various words for the term Babylonians.  I have used words such as Dutch, ALE, and Gamblers.  You will find the results are varied.  Sometimes the word will fit and other times it won't make any sense. I have found that Dutch fits the Babylonian reference the best, but there are those that will disagree...all the more intriguing.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 02, 2008, 10:31:19 AM
Automatically translated text:   
On Sunday, June 19, 2005 19:33 wrote milagro the following:


     [..]

     Ms. strange it is, yes.

     That son has a kind of thought I appartementje own, to his parents' house, own entrance therefore, I assume, so I assume again, that zoonlief can come and go without Ma and Pa in the eye, and how or what Who etc.


     Zoonlief to 06.30 tomorrow benefited from the 5th suspect, which is only recently revealed, it is that the 5th man now suspected,.
     Mss want them now only know from Dad or something he noticed that morning and drive to a third party or something


I thought that this is the fourth suspect was one Steven Croes? Question wondering what is true of these two Dutch (not surinaamse) brothers and a colombiaan suspected? I think half of that island is suspected, how many people live there?

In short, strange mess with all these stories that you read, they sleuren more and more people, to the son of youknowwho to save ofzo. There is no ass of the whole story, and I wonder whether it only by the news of the amerikanen. I think there is also something very tilted sits on Aruba (skating them there are ash, and also straight or tilted?)



http://forum.fok.nl/topic/716218


*******...Thanks....The two Dutch brothers and a Columbian could be Koen and Sander, or Joran and Lorenzo? and Jaime? I'm beginning to think the Gottenbos boys may be up to their eyeballs in this.  Lala's posted on the other thread yesterday a post about two arrests on 6/11. Somebodies,IMO more than one, are being protected big time and it certainly isn't the Kalpoes.

Been reading the old front page posts and things really started to heat up out there on June 6th, when Gabe Leo started posting. J2Ks weren't even arrested until June 9th.

Gosh! Mum I think you and i have been on the same pages this weekend.  Those early FP posts by Gabe  are rather interesting.  I always find something new in them each time I read them and I have read them too many times.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 02, 2008, 10:43:56 AM
Lala's....one thing about Chapter 5 from J's book. I noticed that a couple of his friends got jealous over girls. A fight even broke out. He says he was OK with Freddy and Carmen, but doesn't say how Freddy was with it.

Is it possible, as was mentioned on the other thread the other day, that the ex boyfriend/boyfriend post may not refer to Natalee? Just crossed my mind!

Almost forgot, do you think that post is a fake?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 02, 2008, 11:06:01 AM
Here is a snippet of conversations from the archives about the 4th person arrested.  It seems that Steve Croes was the 4th person arrested, yet if you read on you see that someone was arrested the day or night before Steve was.  It appears to be Lorenzo..this is where the talka bout Lorenzo begins in earnest.  It is convoluted to way the least.  Americaninaruba, up to this moment, had been offering information to the posters, as well as, Arubagirl.  This is the first time in all their conversations that things were so confused.  Wouldn't you know it. The one thing I want to know and it's hard to  decipher just who they are talking about.  Steve Croes was reported by MSNBC as the 4th person arrested, but there is that other person in Savenata, that turns out to be the mysterious Lorenzo, that they all go back to.  Mind you, it is the Aruban posters that begin talking about Lorenzo.  It also seems that the term arrested and suspect versus detained and witness is interchangeable in Aruba. Reasons for confusion too.

americaninaruba
   
RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS # 6
« Reply #1407 on: June 17, 2005, 08:14:33 AM »
   
****
4th person has been arrested thisd morning...news from the ministrey public....initials S.G.C. born 1978

will bring more news



americaninaruba
   
RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS # 6
« Reply #1410 on: June 17, 2005, 08:17:23 AM »
   
today 6am police go into house in Sta Cruz where they go with one person ......with initials S.C. this arrest took place 6am this morning...wurprised the family with this arrest....we got differnt information, but we want to get all concrete things together before we bring this news to you.....we dont want to confuse anyone! we want to say that their is suspicion that she is ALIVE! but we dont want to bring up any suspicion to anyone but we willbe beack with info if this person has information for this case...also in savaneta they took someone for interogation.....we are hoping this will come to an end, with all this suspicion we believe shes alive.....stay pending.....thank you harry


americaninaruba

RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS # 6
« Reply #1436 on: June 17, 2005, 08:38:21 AM »
   
ok here it is:

YESTERDAY a man was taken for interrogation from savaneta....
THIS MORNING 6am....a boy of intials SGC (bron 1978) was taken into custody with relations to the case...we still have no EXACT info why but they took him this morning, and TOP95 say that they have high suspicions that NH is alive.......they will be back on in about an hour i belive
   



DJTAYLOR
RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS # 6
« Reply #1461 on: June 17, 2005, 08:52:21 AM »
   
4th arrest is a friend of JORAN and the brothers

DJTAYLOR

RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS # 6
« Reply #1462 on: June 17, 2005, 08:52:54 AM »
   
He was amongst them that night aparently


DJTAYLOR
RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS # 6
« Reply #1477 on: June 17, 2005, 08:59:53 AM »
   
confirmd 4th arrest 26 year old  friend of joran,


 MSNBC/AP updated 6:36 p.m. CT, Sat., June. 18, 2005

Another man detained
A fourth man who was detained Friday was identified by his boss as Steve Gregory Croes, a 26-year-old disc jockey on a privately owned party boat. He was arrested early Friday, a day after being contacted by police and giving them a statement, the boat’s owner Marcus Wiggins told The Associated Press. The detainee is not related to the attorney general’s spokeswoman.





americaninaruba

RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS # 6
« Reply #1528 on: June 17, 2005, 09:23:48 AM »
   
Quote from: "DT"
Unconfirmed but someone just posted this a riehlworldview.com:

This fourth guy has been arrested and also very known on the island. He is a Dutch guy whose father commited suicide a few ago.


well ive had no confirmation that it was him, but this guy was a suspect since the begining.....this guy went "nuts" since his fatehr died....he apparently has underground parties and such...hes crazy......like he doesnt give a shit about anything! but he has a house on the main road of savaneta and also another one in Seroe Alejandro......lets see what happens......will keep you posted.....again they have hopes she is still alivce!
   


americaninaruba
   
RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS # 6
« Reply #1562 on: June 17, 2005, 09:42:03 AM »
   
Quote from: "Professor"
To American in Aruba: Are you sure about that identity? Fox News says he has the initials SGC and is the son of a prominent member of the judiciary. How can that be, if his father committed suicide?


OK im sosorry for mixign this up...its just i have liek 30 people on my back at the same time and im at work answerign the phone! LOl
ok the Boy taht hsi father commited suicide (Lorenzo is his name) he was arrrested YESTERDAY...the one of TODAY (SGC) i have not been confirmed a name yet...but i dont know who his parents are


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 02, 2008, 11:24:13 AM
Lala's....one thing about Chapter 5 from J's book. I noticed that a couple of his friends got jealous over girls. A fight even broke out. He says he was OK with Freddy and Carmen, but doesn't say how Freddy was with it.

Is it possible, as was mentioned on the other thread the other day, that the ex boyfriend/boyfriend post may not refer to Natalee? Just crossed my mind!

Almost forgot, do you think that post is a fake?

It was highly speculated here, after Guido's arrest and then Guido's attorney saying he was gay, that the boyfriend was referring to Guido and not a boyfriend of Natalee's.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 02, 2008, 11:32:25 AM
Thanks lala's....you just reminded me of the post that I need to find. I think it must be on the FP archives and they take longer to search.

If you come across it please snag it for me. It is the one about Lorenzo's arrest Or the one on 6/16) and an Aruban poster saying they saw someone else being arrested from the same house. IIRC these posters were even saying that they had driven by. I've checked pics and the only houses that could be similar are Koen's and Lorenzo's, though I am looking into another possibility. :lol:


Thanks...I remember reading all of that. I will reread the posts with both in mind.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 02, 2008, 11:42:01 AM
Please note that I am not trying to start a conversation or an argument about Lorenzo here...I am just putting this out there to show the interest in this person, who at sometime during all this disaster in Aruba he was indeed detained in some way for something related to this case. I still believe that Lorezno was only peripherally involved if at all, but I also think it needs to be discussed since there is a statement from him in the Dr. Phil discovery.

Dallas Also
RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS # 7
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2005, 09:49:34 AM »
   
There are definitely two new suspects.

The one yesterday was never said to have been "arrested' but was described as being "detained".  This might be the same thing, in Aruba.

Thanks to AmericaninAruba, we know that the one yesterday is a nutcase who could be capable of having grabbed Natalee (maybe for ransom, maybe to kidnap, maybe to sell).

The one today is another of those guys that think they are above the law.

Nobody is above the law.



americaninaruba

RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS # 7
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2005, 09:50:49 AM »
   
the lorenzo character - hsi father owned the Vwagen distributor here....but after his father committed suicide they family sold th ebusiness...

teh SBC (this mornigns arrest) - i have no idea!!!



americaninaruba
   
RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS # 7
« Reply #60 on: June 17, 2005, 10:06:15 AM »
   
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Fox just reported there is another search going on today in a new location, but authorities won't say where.

AmericaninAruba, any news on that?


no I have no confirmation on this, but i would think that it would be the areas of the 2 new detained.  The lorenzo guy like i stated before has a house out in like "woodsy" area....we dont have WOODS here but liek bushy and lots of cactus...he threw "underground parties" their...i would think that would be the area they would search, but again nothing confimed



americaninaruba
   
RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS # 7
« Reply #71 on: June 17, 2005, 10:11:11 AM »
   
Quote from: "sarah"
Underground parties--after parties after the bars close down?  Is this common on the island?


No to throw a public party/event here onthe island you need to get the police authorization, so thier is some sort of control, and they can be aware of it....the underground parties are parties taht they hand out fliers and text MSG to poeple and throw a party that has not been run by the authorities...most of the time as soon as its 1am the police arrive anyways and shut down the party, unless its in a secluded area that no one calls about the music bothering.....which is the reason he threw these parties at that house that stands alone


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 02, 2008, 07:02:21 PM
Simian's reference to dogs in it's entirety...I did not delete any of the posts in  between;

Simian on June 24th, 2005 2:34 pm

It is very hectic around the water reservoirs in Noord.


# Kris on June 24th, 2005 2:35 pm

Simian,
Is that where the Texas team is searching??


# leopardqueen on June 24th, 2005 2:35 pm
No, CRS, I am a bit of a perfectionist. Edie, young people today cannot take criticism due to the school system constantly PRAISING them and giving kids trophys for every little accomplishment

In my day, you were EXPECTED to excel, did not get praised excessively and did not become a cry baby when corrected or critiqued


# jacqueline on June 24th, 2005 2:35 pm

I thought in an earlier post I had seen it. I’m NJ too.


# BhamNativeGirl on June 24th, 2005 2:35 pm

Let’s steer clear of bashing please and focus on why we’re here



# Praying on June 24th, 2005 2:36 pm

Did I say I was proud of not being able to spell a word?? Actually, I am a pretty good speller, but I don’t try to be perfect and I don’t beat myself up when I’m not. A lost girl is a much bigger deal than a misspelled word or TOO. Sometimes you need to do something wrong just to remind yourself you’re not perfect. It is actually good therapy.

CRS - I know that the evacuate thingy was totally unrealistic. I was … wishing …

And I do … See, as unrealistic as it unfortunately is, it might just find her. And I wish so much they could find her …


# Simian on June 24th, 2005 2:36 pm

Not the Texas team.



#  Jake on June 24th, 2005 2:36 pm

Kris-Meg was misinformed. Mom was not arrested, and there is no press conference.


# crs on June 24th, 2005 2:36 pm

I always hope when they do these searches that they don’t find her because it will be very sad.


# leopardqueen on June 24th, 2005 2:36 pm

NJ stinks for the most part….I think rte 22 looks like a trash heap. Sigh, but I am 73 and have lived here all my life. Too old to move


# Jake on June 24th, 2005 2:36 pm

BTW-Thanks for the LMAO info. Will use it when crs finds his reciept :)


# Simian on June 24th, 2005 2:37 pm

It’s horrible. He is a sociopath.



# leopardqueen on June 24th, 2005 2:37 pm

there’s nothing new to write about Natalee that is why we got off on tangents


# edie on June 24th, 2005 2:37 pm

I enjoy learning. From a good teacher. A good teacher would be someone who teaches not somone like you who calls people out.
Being an older lady does not give you the right to try and embarass others.


# Hopefloats on June 24th, 2005 2:38 pm

and everyone wonders why there is wars going on in the world. Hell we can’t all even get along on a blog or message board what makes us think we can all get along in the world. Its a shame!


# Jake on June 24th, 2005 2:38 pm

What’s up with the 3 missing kids in NJ? Have they found them? Do they know what happened to them. POOR FAMILY!!


# Hopefloats on June 24th, 2005 2:38 pm

excuse me I meant there are wars…


# crs on June 24th, 2005 2:39 pm

I’m going to write a book no matter how this turns out about the reciept theory Jake. Please have me on your station when it is complete.


# leopardqueen on June 24th, 2005 2:39 pm

Hopefloats: young people today get offended over everything. It’s because they’re praised excessively in the schools and “oh don’t tell the little darling he’s a fat tub or illiterate”. That’s why my friends and I believe None of them will exceed or accomplish anything. They cannot take criticism



# Kris on June 24th, 2005 2:39 pm

Simian,

Who is searching there?? and who is a sociopath?
Thanks for the clarification Jake.



# Jake on June 24th, 2005 2:39 pm

Sim-who is a sociopath?
[/b]




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 02, 2008, 07:06:20 PM
when was Lorenzo released? did he "walk with the fallen elder?"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 02, 2008, 07:10:51 PM
#  Praying on June 24th, 2005 2:39 pm

CRS - the family so needs to find her - hopefully alive, but if not, then for closure. In the situation I was close to, they never found her. So, so hard on the parents. The lack of closure is most horrific.


# edie on June 24th, 2005 2:39 pm

I have gotten along with everyone all morning. Then people get on here to start drama and start bashing others. I don’t like to bash, nor do I like to be bashed.


# Rachael on June 24th, 2005 2:40 pm

KRIS and EDIE I am back, have I missed anything important?


# leopardqueen on June 24th, 2005 2:40 pm

camden NJ is a real hell hole…..I bet no one was watching those 3 poor kids


# crs on June 24th, 2005 2:40 pm

Sim - Paul is a sociopath or the fifth suspect you have spoken of?



# Hopefloats on June 24th, 2005 2:40 pm

it is scary to think that now they are taking kids when there are more than just one around. It’s just not safe to let kids be alone out to play anymore in some areas.


# pktbk on June 24th, 2005 2:40 pm

full on ridiculing is different from just letting us know we should know what the hague is. enough on you…old queen. and i’m sure when i am old i won’t care what people think because i have done my time. and i’m going to keep on asking questions.

sim-is someone trying to fix a bad situation out there?




# Jake on June 24th, 2005 2:41 pm

crs-for sure :) I’m sure it will sell more than the Wibanks book!!!



# Pam on June 24th, 2005 2:41 pm

I agree with those that have said kids today don’t spell (or speak) correctly.
My teenagers are smart kids, but the way the speak and spell is deplorable.
The one who is on IM and sending text messages the most is worst. I think
getting lazy and cutting words off, not bothering with capitals and puntuation, makes them forget everything they have learned in English class. It’s a shame.



# edie on June 24th, 2005 2:42 pm

Rachael-
Yeah MS leopard Queen is bashing the young for not being intelligent enough to suit her.


# Jake on June 24th, 2005 2:42 pm

Isn’t the fifth suspect the dad? You mean the 6th suspect. There are now 5 people in jail.



#  scaredshitless on June 24th, 2005 2:43 pm

PAM: you’re so RIGHT ON! It’s a disgrace. I’ve even seen young teachers make grammatical blunders when correcting my kids’ papers.


# Hopefloats on June 24th, 2005 2:43 pm

Leopard, I agree things are much too easy these days and it makes for laziness

Edie, I agree with you about the bashing, in general I was meaning the ones on here that do not care how they talk to others


# crs on June 24th, 2005 2:43 pm

Leopard - jimminy christmas have a martini, chill out, and think about the good times you had in the roaring twenties.


# crs on June 24th, 2005 2:44 pm

I feel like I am on an after-school special with all the talk of geography and spelling.


# Simian on June 24th, 2005 2:44 pm

Killing his own dogs. Dumping them is the reservoir. Harrassing his schoolmates.



# leopardqueen on June 24th, 2005 2:44 pm

CRS thinks someday he will not be an older man and having younger people make fun of him. YOU SHOULD RESPECT THE ELDERLY. They have lived a lot longer than you have. We went thru WWII, when we had to SACRIFICE a great deal.


# Jake on June 24th, 2005 2:45 pm

crs-LMAO!!!!!!


# Hopefloats on June 24th, 2005 2:45 pm

Hey Sim…what did youmean earlier when you said “something rotten was found in the Hague?” or did I miss your answer when we changed pages? Did they find something with the forensics investigation?


# ******* on June 24th, 2005 2:45 pm

What do you think Joran will do if/when he is released? CRS - will you go out w/ him or hook him up w/ your sister?


# edie on June 24th, 2005 2:45 pm

I was not aware of the spell sheck on the blog


# I-Yell-Chris-In-Hallways on June 24th, 2005 2:45 pm

Ignore CRS. He needs a big fat Blond Danish wife like I myself have


# Kris on June 24th, 2005 2:45 pm

Jake,
Nothing on the kids in NJ> Cnn said mom went inside for 5 min. came back and they were gone.

Rachel–Hello again. Nothing new really–just discussing higher education


# pktbk on June 24th, 2005 2:46 pm

sim-*gasp* oh my goodness!!!!!!!!!! i can see that! oh my goodness!

they are going to find more there than just nat evidence.



# Jake on June 24th, 2005 2:46 pm

Sim-are the little green people talking to you again?




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 02, 2008, 07:19:43 PM
To continue...several minutes go by and finally Simian comes back to finish his conversation...everything in between was more or less just chit chat between posters.  Please notice that they are becoming impatient with Simian and making fun of him at the same time.  I only throw this out FYI so you can see what is being said at the same time Simian is speaking.

Simian on June 24th, 2005 3:16 pm

The water reservoir in Noord is very busy. The boy is not right. There is so much stuff on him. I don’t know what I should relay to you people. I fear the worst.

The Texans don’t know where to start.



# Hopefloats on June 24th, 2005 3:16 pm

is this the resevoir in Noorde(sp)? where NH’s natural father was wanting to search?


# Kris on June 24th, 2005 3:17 pm

Simian,
Please just give us whatever you can.


# Simian on June 24th, 2005 3:17 pm

All evidence collected was sent to the The Hague.




# crs on June 24th, 2005 3:17 pm

Sim - when you speak of this boy I think everyone thinks you are talking about Joran but your not are you - you are talking about this other individual.


# Jake on June 24th, 2005 3:17 pm

Sim-it sounds to me that now you think Joran is guilty! Is that what the little green people are telling you?


# ivy on June 24th, 2005 3:17 pm

scaredshitless: back from staff meeting I am 45 married two kids female in NJ also.


# Kerri on June 24th, 2005 3:18 pm

Hi all. new to blogging. fascinated by nh case. Pray for her to be found alive. Sim what do you know about him?


# BhamNativeGirl on June 24th, 2005 3:19 pm

Hope - further down, about 11 hours from Birmingham. But not a bad drive at all, I love the drive up there..

Any news?? No access to tv..


# Nevada_Mom on June 24th, 2005 3:19 pm

I have been reading all of these comments and I want to stress something. This young girl did not deserve to die and I firmly believe she did on that fatal night. What a terrible shame it is that knowledge of law is used so frequently to protect an evil act or perhaps in this case accidental. I think she died through drugs or alcohol/fear/brutality. I think the dad knew it…

Please pray for the Holloway extended family. I think many of the postings here are from singles who have yet to have a family and understand the loss, pain and desperation that Natalee’s family are feeling.

Also quit bashing the Dutch and the Arubans. Evil and bad behavior/choices is not a nationalist choice or endowment.

I think it is very sad that this case has impacted the livelihood of the Arubans. From all accounts this is a well run good island and we can not blame them for a few uncontrolled and evil elements.

Lets remember that we all can make mistakes, it is how we resolve them that really matters. If Anita VDS is the strong caring teacher she appears to be, she will go to her husband and son and demand the truth. The greater good must prevail. Will this be obvious in her demeanor (sp) no spell check here.

Can you imagine what the life is like for her younger children, and were they taking lessons from their older brother? Do they know anything???

Finally this story has gripped people because it speaks to all of the fears of parenting and losing a loved one. Especially without any kind of answer or closure, the act of loving and nurturing can not be terminated. I think it is a good sign for the country that so many have cared about this young lady, on the brink of her adult hood, going into a profession where she helps others ( not just the typical description of Americans from Europeans and others as selfish jerks).

What may we have lost (hopefully not but..) in this girl.


# Jake on June 24th, 2005 3:19 pm

crs-are you a spiritual blog translator?


# heatherey on June 24th, 2005 3:20 pm

Man! Can someone get SHOCK back here? Anyone hear from him?


# pktbk on June 24th, 2005 3:20 pm

the guy with the van is the one that has a horrible past.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JuJu on January 02, 2008, 07:28:18 PM
So that would mean Lorinzo?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 02, 2008, 08:03:02 PM
So that would mean Lorinzo?


JuJu...There's a lot pointing to Lorenzo, but I still like Freddy. Both were kept under wraps it appears.


Columbo... All we really have on Lorenzo is from the Dr Phil docs of an interview I think 6/28.  He appears to have been arrested on 6/11. But that is not the offcial ALE word


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Sam on January 03, 2008, 11:58:02 AM
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/category/natalee-holloway/page/102/
 
Lalas this gets you back to June 7, 2005 If you want earlier press next at the bottom of the page.
If you want later than June 7 press previous. I know sounds weird.Works trust me. Some of the Front page post by Red or Tom Have no comments listed or just 1 or 2. Some have hundreds. Hope this helps and is what you are looking for.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Sam on January 03, 2008, 01:55:19 PM
I finally took the time to go back to the beginning or at least as far as I could find.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/category/natalee-holloway/page/111/

I guess I will next need to read all the comments but some of those are really long.
JMHO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 04, 2008, 06:18:28 AM
Just read a post yesterday that the poster thought that Shango was no longer with us, Benson was mentioned as he was from the Midwest and the poster presumed he would know the language used. I know that Lala’s believes otherwise. Also there are posts by scubajap that others were being questioned and they in Aruba knew a lot we didn’t. So it appears a lot of media type people in Aruba discussed the case with ALE. Scuba mentions talking to Deepak and he states he ded not write those emails, for example. :roll:

Anyway, what crossed my mind on this, as one has been rumored to be a female, was the two suicides last year of the male and female video/film peeps. I believe ******* found they had done something on the ‘race junkies’ IIRC.

LOL, maybe I should post this in the Speculation thread!


Columbo….I’m stuck on who is hidden. If Dompig was right and and Natalee was moved, it could have been her.  But I believe that some suspects were hidden, at least from us.

Sam and Lala's...the easiest way around the front page is to do what we do on the main thread to get to the page we want. :wink:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 04, 2008, 07:15:52 AM
Made a long post yesterday in the main thread #709...(page 43 #844) about the time stamps on the HI video. The posts were taken from the front page. It struck me this could be the gaps in the timeline. I had always thought this was the '11PM...4AM pickup' until I saw this.

Also saw another post that said Mcdonalds was a name for some sort of drugs :roll:

Just putting it all out there, maybe something will mean something to someone :lol:


Maybe Lala's missing 'piece of the puzzle' is what Columbo's 'what is hidden' :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 04, 2008, 10:00:26 AM
From the judicial inc site:

These are pictures of a person who seems to only exist as far as the police go. He was one of the first to be questioned. No-one speaks of him. What we do know is, he is a rich kid, in his 20's. His mom and him own houses on the Island, and to this day only moms house was searched. Mom is remarried, and is selling her home. They too are in Holland.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on January 04, 2008, 02:14:40 PM
From the judicial inc site:

These are pictures of a person who seems to only exist as far as the police go. He was one of the first to be questioned. No-one speaks of him. What we do know is, he is a rich kid, in his 20's. His mom and him own houses on the Island, and to this day only moms house was searched. Mom is remarried, and is selling her home. They too are in Holland.

Has his own boat, I had mentioned him previously.
But, they did bring him in twice, searched his boat, his house, his car and no forensics.
This is a little more complicated than I can fully explain here, let's just say it has always bothered me why they didn't question him like they questioned Joran, and leave it at that for the moment, OK?
Posted by: scubajap | Oct 16, 2005 10:07:43 PM

new girl on June 28th, 2005 11:44 pm
Re: does anyone know what Lorenzo does for a living?

Checkme
wrote above: new girl, you know, small society, extended families, no secrets, family knows everything. this guy has a bad profile, father into drugs, himself dealing, driving expensive cars, crashing them, not working, father killing himself because of a drug/alcohol induced depression. in short, no solid upbringing, wrong connections, careless, living above the law. somehow not getting caught. Bad boy waiting on the wall to hit him?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 04, 2008, 03:34:43 PM
Is this who is hidden?

1.   Name: Baboon | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The FBI was with a group in Aruba. Some left, some stayed.
There is no plea barganing in Aruba or the Dutch Kingdom. What they do is reduced sentences for the for the lesser crimes.
The case where the gentleman was “beheaded” was solved. The girl was picked up and she is awaiting for her charges and subsequent trial.
A case of a drive-by shooting was also solved and the involved have been arrested. Nobody was killed they just shot in the air. One is the son of really, really rich and influential people in Aruba. Not like Joran, which by Aruban standards is just the son of a judicial employee.
Some have to start coming to grips that maybe something else happened to the girl.
Posted Jul 1, 10:38 AM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Natalee Holloway; July 1 2005” | View Post


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 04, 2008, 04:08:07 PM
One more to ponder:

121.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
I can confirm they are there. The 3 of them. Remember the Kalpoes know nothing they were informed aournd the pool deck by Joran.
Based on my knowledge they will be confronted. A set up for the behaviour specialists?
Posted Jun 24, 3:54 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Natalee & Family


Kalpoes know nothing, so who are the three?

Joran and Steve Croes still arrested, only other interview that day was Karen Martina. But where was Freddy! Remember I'm convinced he was detained som e time around then! :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 04, 2008, 06:49:17 PM
Made a long post yesterday in the main thread #709...(page 43 #844) about the time stamps on the HI video. The posts were taken from the front page. It struck me this could be the gaps in the timeline. I had always thought this was the '11PM...4AM pickup' until I saw this.

Also saw another post that said Mcdonalds was a name for some sort of drugs :roll:

Just putting it all out there, maybe something will mean something to someone :lol:


Maybe Lala's missing 'piece of the puzzle' is what Columbo's 'what is hidden' :lol:

A big thank you to Sam in helping me with that link....I really appreciate it.

Mum...In case you haven't noticed Colombo is always as cryptic as Shango...I think he may be referring to a hidden suspect.  But you know, I have yet to have Colombo tell me I am right about anything he posts...so who really knows?  :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 04, 2008, 06:54:39 PM
From the judicial inc site:

These are pictures of a person who seems to only exist as far as the police go. He was one of the first to be questioned. No-one speaks of him. What we do know is, he is a rich kid, in his 20's. His mom and him own houses on the Island, and to this day only moms house was searched. Mom is remarried, and is selling her home. They too are in Holland.



Clearly Lorenzo...no doubt about this description.  He was part of the equation if only by virtue of association. 


QUESTION FOR COLOMBO:  Do you still think the 5th suspect was Paulus?  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 04, 2008, 08:04:48 PM
What was kept hidden, per Shango, was one of the cards played by PVDS-"he was the hidden card that was played".......he can break the alibi

before he says this, Simian says this:
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:06 am
The important “others” are the ones that supported the alibi.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:16 pm
DirtyHand can break the Alibi

Shango later says:
And he walked with the fallen elder

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Who took the boy to the party? Who took him home? (home from where?)

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The boy told the Hindus that he didn’t need their help anymore. This was in the small hours.
The confrontation was brutal.  So who heeded his call? Who switched places?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on January 04, 2008, 08:51:13 PM

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Who took the boy to the party? Who took him home? (home from where?)
Kalpoes?                PVDS?   Lorenzo's or the Lions Den?
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The boy told the Hindus that he didn’t need their help anymore. This was in the small hours.
The confrontation was brutal.  So who heeded his call? Who switched places?
My Take  :cool:
No idea who switched places,unless he meant Joran and Lorenzo.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 05, 2008, 08:40:46 AM
What was kept hidden, per Shango, was one of the cards played by PVDS-"he was the hidden card that was played".......he can break the alibi

before he says this, Simian says this:
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:06 am
The important “others” are the ones that supported the alibi.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:16 pm
DirtyHand can break the Alibi

Shango later says:
And he walked with the fallen elder
IMO...this would be a Croes or Wever
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Who took the boy to the party? Who took him home? (home from where?)

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The boy told the Hindus that he didn’t need their help anymore. This was in the small hours.
The confrontation was brutal.  So who heeded his call? Who switched places?


My answer in blue above:


He he walked with the fallen elder, Paulus was a judge or lawyer, IMO

Early reports on Steve said he was from an influential family, a DJ, EMT and a pilot. And there is another Croes. Maybe this is another Lorenzo Wever!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on January 05, 2008, 03:41:45 PM
Dolores defended her friend Lorenzo and I take her posts with a grain of salt. I do believe her about a another Lorenzo being apart of the prostitute thing though. I wonder if that Lorenzo was the HI Manager who left town shortly after Natalee vanished? Shango and Simian were definetly talking about the right Lorenzo,but I thought these posts were interesting. Since A Lorenzo was involved did they switch places? Or was the HI Employee "Lorenzer Wever"BS or totally unrelated?
-------------------------------------------------
*******, I personally know Lorenzo very well and since he (to my knowledge) isn't guilty or plays a part in the NH case I'd rather refrain from giving out personal info.

What is known (was in the papers), the police (way in the beginning) got an anonimous tip by phone, and went (without a searchwarrant and were allowed)to search his house and question him. Nothing was found, he also had an alibi and that settled it.

Him being PdvS son is a rumour that started during the NH case. I think because Lorenzo's dad's name was Paul too, they are both Dutch etc. that rumour started. But there is no truth to it.
Posted by: Dolores | Aug 31, 2005 9:33:45 AM
-------------------------------------------------------
Lorenzo has a business partner, paul broughm, and they run stuff together....lorenzo also has a redlight distirct tour businees in Aruba that lets you pay $50 and get either incall or outcall prostitutes....Jurine may have advanced his business model a step or two by giving people an already prone rape victim. Paul Broughm sees to be the brains behind all of Lorenzo's business ventures, and I'm sure he's a redwings fan, becase he is from Michigan. Once when running a google search on: mr pink aruba porn, the first thing that came up was the "Holiday Inn". It may be nothing, but it gave me a chill. It is said thay broughm does some film shooting at Lorenzo's raves. It is said that Steve Croes was an extra cameraman for Mr.Pink on several occasions. It is "rumored" that they make under-aged snuff videos on a commission basis, mostly with young latin girls. I really wold like to meet Lorenzo face to face and get a feel for all these rumors, Its hard to believe, but when you get it from an fbi file what can you argue?
Posted by: billy | Wednesday, July 27, 2005 at 06:46 AM


Proudredneck, the dayshift is here!!! Lorenzo is not PVDS's ill. Lorenzo's dad commited suicide (if that's what you want to call "suspicious death)a long time ago and I don't see why this should be brought up on this board (give the people some privacy, show respect). Billy posted : Lorenzo also has a redlight distirct tour businees in Aruba that lets you pay $50 and get either incall or outcall prostitutes. YEs..BUT THAT IS ANOTHER LORENZO!!! Darn you people love gossip more then my old granny over her tea!!!
Posted by: Dolores | Wednesday, July 27, 2005 at 07:34 AM


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 05, 2008, 04:52:22 PM
walked with the fallen elder may mean "was released" at the same time


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 05, 2008, 04:59:13 PM
Colombo
What about the 5th suspect?  Do you still think it is Paulus?  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 06, 2008, 12:22:15 AM
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Thursday, June 23, 2005; Posted: 10:01 p.m.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/aruba.holloway/index.html

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:28 pm
The father is trapped in a legal check mate.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damage he had caused.


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon

If the house of babylon is to remain erect, it must protect the babylonians who have lived in teepees, among the arawaks, for a long time.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 06, 2008, 01:37:48 PM
For heaven's sake....just answer with a yes or no!  I am familiar with what Simian says...I want to know what you think.  Is that too much to ask?  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 07, 2008, 06:02:33 AM


For Lala's.....From the Lorenzo thread:

I am sorry, I am confused. It appears the American in Aruba is saying: the original 3 boys were arrested, then another named "Lorenzo," yesterday...and now another with the initials "SGC." That makes 5 arrested. Is this correct? FOX news is only reporting 4 arrested (obviously the U.S.media is out of the loop on this case). thanks.  342 posted on 06/17/2005
           ---------------------------------------------------------------

Posted these on the main thread:
  But what has me puzzled ( confused i think) is if you  look at diario of a few days back aparantly they arrested Joran at his house!!! But the house looks alot like Lorenzo's house at Yara/Savaneta.  So i had to ask what was going on?? Am i paranoid or how?                              What connection could Lorenzo and Joran have with each other in this case here! 

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

But it's true that i heard that Lorenzo the son of the owner Paul( the one who hanged himself last year) was talking about wanting to come with a VW animal animal for a long time now, they have money, he and his dad were giving bills of 100 florin away like crazy when they invited us to trip with them.Posted by pietjezz6-9-2005



COLUMBO......still working on that.... (LOL in my sleep it seems)....I do remember who you think is Dirty Hand! But if you don't answer Lala's questions, how will we know if you've changed your thinking?


     


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 07, 2008, 10:19:10 AM
Had posted the other day in the Lorenzo thread that I had read that LVR's lawyer was Hendrick Croes - Rudy's brother. Croes Wever and Tchong. Another partner in the firm about the same age as LVR....everybody knows each other, right!


I think I read it at Rhiel, world, will go back later this week and see if I can find it.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 07, 2008, 10:44:33 AM
Had posted the other day in the Lorenzo thread that I had read that LVR's lawyer was Hendrick Croes - Rudy's brother. Croes Wever and Tchong. Another partner in the firm about the same age as LVR....everybody knows each other, right!


I think I read it at Rhiel, world, will go back later this week and see if I can find it.

It would be nice if you did find this out for certain. I wonder if everyone on Aruba has an attorney related to someone in power...most likely.   Going back to the order of arrests, we really don't know for certain.  In some news stories Steve Croes is listed as number 4 and in others he's number 5.  Maybe the 5th suspect is actually Steve Croes.  I suppose he would have to provide an alibi for his whereabouts after he was stupid enough to inject  himself in this mess.  That never made sense to me unless he was paid.  I don't think he was paid by Joran...even with his gambling cash Croes would want a lot more money than what  Joran could give him.  I also wonder if Paulus is still having to supplement him on the side.   I have gotten lost again, sorry.  Back to Lorenzo, there is evidence he was one of the two that were arrested during this time.  Lorenzo seems to have been arrested before Steve, but reports are conflicting and there is no definite answer that I can find.  The Aruban posters indicated it was Lorenzo...that is all I can confirm there.

Now, has Colombo ever answered my question?  I didn't think so.  Once again, Colombo do you still think Paulus is the 5th suspect? I know that is what you have said before.  I remember the night both you and Eleye presented the idea here...please come out and discuss this with us. I want to know how you can fit all the criteria for the 5th suspect into PVDS.  I have worked on it, but still can't make a few aspects fit. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 07, 2008, 11:44:40 AM
Lala's...posted another bit of info this morning in the Lorenzo thread....there was a discussion a few days ago in the main thread about Max Arends/Arendz. I always thought it was Arendz, that was Lorenzo's friend and alibi, and some type of race junkie. Well I found something from 2004 that has a contact of Arends to do with racing. (I believe what was posted on the main thread was that the younger one-Arends- was questioned on the 16th, but heck I'm so confused, I don't think I know anything anymore.

I guess what I'm saying is that maybe we have to look at the younger Arends...LOL

Everything is so intertwined on that place. A tangled web!


Can't believe I didn't post that about Lorenzo's lawyer! Maybe I did...and just can't find it! :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 07, 2008, 11:59:12 AM
I have tried to make heads or tails out that site...the way things are jumbled and you try to figure out who is talking to whom and if this is the person we are looking for is difficult.  You have done well, my child.  Yes, let's go back and talk about the younger Arends, I was under the impression he was Joran's friend at school...that is if he had any friends.  What do you think about him?  I am sure you have read the Lorenzo race junkies thread.  I had a lot more before my computer crash and now I need to try to get in contact with the person that gave me the info. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 07, 2008, 01:21:16 PM
"We also know from the Kalpoe law suit vs. Dr. Phil that Lorenzo was witness and gave a statement to police at least once. Wonder why they would have wanted to talk to Lorenzo? Maybe Joran Van der Sloot was there that night? The police may want to do some DNA testing in this home."

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/06/21/lorenzo-van-rijn-arrested-on-drug-charges-in-aruba-hmm-ya-dont-say/




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 07, 2008, 02:34:45 PM
Hadn't seen this one, though I'm sure others have. Know that both hotels have been mentioned, just don't recall the names of the band and the restaurant in conjunction with the Wyndham...Fact or Fiction!

Wasn't this party at the HI? Who else was there??

Posted by: (((AG))) | August 11, 2005 08:05 PM


Not sure who else was there, but I'm pretty sure this is the party Shango spoke of.


"the partygoers need to be pressured, they have seen from the corners of their eyes"

"the room was dusted" (the room at the HI?)

"the host doesn't leave his own party"

"the alibi needs to be broken"

Posted by: letsbefair | August 11, 2005 09:31 PM

Scubajap

==================================
I think Shango was referring to a party at the Wyndham, and a tie to the casino there since the dealers were repeatedly referenced - the dealers know, Shango said.

I read over his posts several times, along with interpretations. Later someone posted elsewhere information about the Wyndham. Shango talked about the 7 Infernos ( that is apparently the name of the Wyndham's restaurants) and about the Maze (A band that played at the Wyndham is named the Maze).

I've never been to Aruba so am relying on information others provided.

Posted by: shonane | Friday, August 12, 2005 at 12:10 AM

Scarborough country with the Twittys right now.

10 EST.

Posted by: FloridaPatty
=======================================

Still looking for Hendrick...I'm amazed where a search in this case takes you!


Possibly - this is Max Arends? - I remember this name early on as someone that came in for questioning by the LE.
Don't think it is Max-I know his father very well, and he told me he is not that close to Joran, and this was a month ago, and all the classmates were brought in for questioning-not only Max
Posted by: scubajap | Thursday, August 11, 2005 at 09:07 PM

Is this the Max that is Lorenzo's alibi or is there another Max?
Posted by: (((AG))) | Thursday, August 11, 2005 at 09:08 PM


Just got off the phone with Bibi (Max,sr) Arends, Max's father. They are sitting in a movie theatre in Orlando, Florida at this very moment, because Max is going to school there. So I doubt he is giving a statement in Aruba. Bibi informs me Max has never stayed over in Joran's house.
Posted by: scubajap | Thursday, August 11, 2005 at 09:13 PM

Bibi just called me back and Max Arends explained there is a Max Arendz and that is the guy that is mixed up with them.
Posted by: scubajap | Thursday, August 11, 2005 at 09:53 PM

Quotes from scubajap   :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 07, 2008, 05:02:18 PM
Hadn't seen this one, though I'm sure others have. Know that both hotels have been mentioned, just don't recall the names of the band and the restaurant in conjunction with the Wyndham...Fact or Fiction!

Wasn't this party at the HI? Who else was there??

Posted by: (((AG))) | August 11, 2005 08:05 PM


Not sure who else was there, but I'm pretty sure this is the party Shango spoke of.


"the partygoers need to be pressured, they have seen from the corners of their eyes"

"the room was dusted" (the room at the HI?)

"the host doesn't leave his own party"

"the alibi needs to be broken"

Posted by: letsbefair | August 11, 2005 09:31 PM

Scubajap

==================================
I think Shango was referring to a party at the Wyndham, and a tie to the casino there since the dealers were repeatedly referenced - the dealers know, Shango said.

I read over his posts several times, along with interpretations. Later someone posted elsewhere information about the Wyndham. Shango talked about the 7 Infernos ( that is apparently the name of the Wyndham's restaurants) and about the Maze (A band that played at the Wyndham is named the Maze).

I've never been to Aruba so am relying on information others provided.

Posted by: shonane | Friday, August 12, 2005 at 12:10 AM

Scarborough country with the Twittys right now.

10 EST.

Posted by: FloridaPatty
=======================================

Still looking for Hendrick...I'm amazed where a search in this case takes you!


Possibly - this is Max Arends? - I remember this name early on as someone that came in for questioning by the LE.
Don't think it is Max-I know his father very well, and he told me he is not that close to Joran, and this was a month ago, and all the classmates were brought in for questioning-not only Max
Posted by: scubajap | Thursday, August 11, 2005 at 09:07 PM

Is this the Max that is Lorenzo's alibi or is there another Max?
Posted by: (((AG))) | Thursday, August 11, 2005 at 09:08 PM


Just got off the phone with Bibi (Max,sr) Arends, Max's father. They are sitting in a movie theatre in Orlando, Florida at this very moment, because Max is going to school there. So I doubt he is giving a statement in Aruba. Bibi informs me Max has never stayed over in Joran's house.
Posted by: scubajap | Thursday, August 11, 2005 at 09:13 PM

Bibi just called me back and Max Arends explained there is a Max Arendz and that is the guy that is mixed up with them.
Posted by: scubajap | Thursday, August 11, 2005 at 09:53 PM

Quotes from scubajap   :roll:


As Tylergal has said all along there was a party at the HI...now the question is who was the host?   Notice that the poster did not say who was at the party...you have to take Scubajap's comments with a grain of salt until you have corroborating evidence IMO.  We have discussed a party at the hotels as being what Shango spoke of.  It seemed to be the norm for videoing and such.  so maybe Freddy was there too....with his camera.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 07, 2008, 05:18:23 PM
to that point, could someone repost that cartoon here?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 07, 2008, 11:37:28 PM
Colombo
Are you ignoring me?  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 08, 2008, 12:24:12 AM
to that point, could someone repost that cartoon here?

Klaas was kind enough to give it it's own thread...here you go.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2507.0


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: yapperz1 on January 08, 2008, 01:47:15 AM
This one?

(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l286/yapperz1/cartoonnatalee.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 08, 2008, 10:07:26 AM
 I have been looking at the Holiday Inn this morning. Was there in fact 46 hotels back in May 2005? Which one was the 46th? The Marriott where Freddy worked is the northern most, but I seem to remember that this is not the way posters decided on the 46th. This is what I recall from way back.

The Casablanca – Located  in the Wyndham Resort, the casino feautures a bar and live music. Big-buck gamblers gather in the back and the Cabaret Royal Showroom features a review from Havana.
J. E. Irausquin Boulevard 77
Tel: +(297) 5862 283 / Fax: +(297) 5866 822
Website: www.wyndham.com/hotels/AUAPB/main.wnt
Gaming Time: 10:00am-close Daily


This is where Joran says he was on the night of May30, when the family arrived.

Will put this out there, because I think they are way more involved, and because of what they do.

http://www.vcbsecurity.com/index_en.php

Is the 'Black team' part of this or is that the weird looking guys in the riot gear? TIA.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 08, 2008, 10:26:38 AM
Was trying to tie Max Arends in here but he did not flee to Babylon. Guido did, if I have my interpretation of Babylon right. He was interviewed on 6/23/2005.

65: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon?
DirtyHand knows, this is his Power
there will be 46 sacrifices


82: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 11:12 pm
Even Flying Birds Sing.   
If the key does not arrive tomorrow, that door to Eden will remain closed
I must feed the messengers


Have been thinking about his one.

180.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was “the whole time”. Posted Jun 22, 6:04 PM



Could a party at his house be at this hotel. He was there - somewhere- the whole time.  I posted the other day about a Judith Yolando Arends and 3 receipts being interviewed on 7/11. Nearly everyone else interviewed around that time worked for the HI and a couple at the Marriott. This was July, so they should not have been asking about the HI drop-off. Joran didn't say he went to the HI on 5/30. Hmmm.....




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 08, 2008, 10:31:22 AM
The black team is the same as the weird looking guys dressed in black with the riot gear.  That's funny actually, not enough tourists any longer for a riot. 

A few questions....was Freddy working at the bar the night in question?  Did Natalee go to that bar at any time during her trip?  I get the hotels confused.  is it the Wyndham or the Marriott we are talking about now?  Which ones did Natalee visit?  This VCB team was supposedly into security, it seems, mainly in the hotel district.  If they are so good where are all the tapes?  Why didn't the ALE ask for them from every single casino and hotel in the area? The only connection we seem to have with them is GVC and he was on the radar and then off faster than Guido.  Just exactly what was it they arrested him for in connection with this case? I have forgotten.   :roll:


Maybe we need a list of each person and things that we do know or suspect or that were rumored under each one...just thinking.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 08, 2008, 11:36:20 AM
Found on the Front Page.

Van der straten said; front page June10th.2005

Deputy Police Chief Jan van der Straten said Holloway met van der Sloot in the casino attached to her hotel two days before she disappeared. Family friends say Holloway knew that van der Sloot had spent much of the week playing cards in the casino with a group of boys from the trip.
Employees at the Holiday Inn casino said van der Sloot and ...snipped

   ---------------------------------------------------------------

I doubt if Joran was by himself, he says that he, Jaime and Freddy go out scoping tourists. It was Champions at the Marriott that Freddy worked at.

I was remembering who COLUMBO thought “Dirty Hand’ was and ‘Willem’ could have been his boss. When I was reading  Shango and Simian this morning, I tried to work out where he fits. It’s somewhere, as you don’t just sell your house for no reason.  That Visibility site is the same as it was when I first visited it ages ago, so maybe for some reason he needed another house. They have access to a lot of security info from the hotels, and I remember reading about rooms with cameras in them, just one more thing to think about.LOL

Sister is a police officer. Their house was listed for sale as of 12/14/2007.(Yellow…just like the Gottenbos)

CROMVOIRT, Geoffry van - 19 years old, resident of Aruba, who was detained by ALE on 4-15-2006 in an unannounced connection to the Natalee Holloway case. He is the son of the owner of an island security company that supplies equipment and personnel to beach patrol and hotels.  For more information see Who’s Who – Victim, Suspects, Witnesses & Families.

CROMVOIRT, Wilhemus “Willem” Bernadus Henricus Papaya van – owner & operator of VCB Security.  Father of Geoffrey van Cromvoirt. There is some question as to whether the Cromvoirt’s moved to the Netherlands.  Resided at 14D, Paradera, Aruba.


BTW...Also bothering me that 'Dutch Marine'. Joran says he shipped out 2 days before Natalee disappeared. How does he know...there were Dutch Marines all over that island looking for Natalee days after that! Oh I forgot, tickets were changed for 2 days, weren't they? :2doh:

Wonder if that paragraph in Chapter 3 of his book, that doesn't even look like it belongs there, has anything to do with what Klaas posted today? Maybe like you said, Lala's, it is not a confession. Maybe, because he couldn't talk on the phone, it's a warning!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 08, 2008, 12:36:02 PM
In Beth's book the "Dutch Marine" story is told by the HI night manager, Brenda.  She comments that Joran is tall and good looking like a Dutch Marine.  But the story transformed into something much different.

Example....Natalee was last seen leaving with a tall good looking boy with blue eyes, kind of looked like a Dutch Marine. 

Keep repeating form one person to the next and you end up with....Natalee ran off with a Blue-eyed Dutch Marine. 

That is not hard to do and with the confusion no wonder Julia kept telling that story to everyone...it looked better than the truth. :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: kgwallace88 on January 08, 2008, 02:25:34 PM
Some please get Brenda some glasses really quick!!  Frankenstein is not good looking!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 08, 2008, 08:11:17 PM
Some please get Brenda some glasses really quick!!  Frankenstein is not good looking!

I wonder how old she is? Maybe he charmed her with his intelligence.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 08, 2008, 08:19:35 PM

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:29 pm
Some windows overlooking Babylon have been opened

http://news.visitaruba.com/news/manageArticle.do?dispatch=view&id=1357


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bc73 on January 08, 2008, 08:56:19 PM
Check out Max Arends Myspace account and you'll see drug references, and similiar hand signals throughout his photo albums. His "expertise" is computer tech work, with his website attached. Mum, couldn't log on, so I wasn't able to post. Prob info you already have....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 09, 2008, 07:44:10 AM

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:29 pm
Some windows overlooking Babylon have been opened

http://news.visitaruba.com/news/manageArticle.do?dispatch=view&id=1357



Thank you COLUMBO...that would be the Wyndham.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 09, 2008, 07:46:35 AM
Check out Max Arends Myspace account and you'll see drug references, and similiar hand signals throughout his photo albums. His "expertise" is computer tech work, with his website attached. Mum, couldn't log on, so I wasn't able to post. Prob info you already have....


Hi bc73 and Welcome...I can't find Max' myspace acct, do you have the link?  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on January 09, 2008, 08:39:26 AM
Check out Max Arends Myspace account and you'll see drug references, and similiar hand signals throughout his photo albums. His "expertise" is computer tech work, with his website attached. Mum, couldn't log on, so I wasn't able to post. Prob info you already have....


Hi bc73 and Welcome...I can't find Max' myspace acct, do you have the link?  TIA

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=244626398


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 09, 2008, 01:07:00 PM
Check out Max Arends Myspace account and you'll see drug references, and similiar hand signals throughout his photo albums. His "expertise" is computer tech work, with his website attached. Mum, couldn't log on, so I wasn't able to post. Prob info you already have....


Hi bc73 and Welcome...I can't find Max' myspace acct, do you have the link?  TIA

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=244626398


Thanks *******.....I know he left and went Florida and reportedly is back in Aruba now. Scubajap says his Dad, Bibi, was shocked when his name was on the news. I guess Scuba talked to him in Florida on the phone. Also said all the ISA students were questioned.

All this intertwining of names bothers me! :-x



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bc73 on January 09, 2008, 02:12:09 PM
Good to finally be in here Mum. Read these posts everyday since the beginning, time to get on board(finally). Interesting little comments by young women on that site, huh?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 09, 2008, 02:23:32 PM
Good to finally be in here Mum. Read these posts everyday since the beginning, time to get on board(finally). Interesting little comments by young women on that site, huh?


He said that he was 23 so I really had to look hard! :lol: I have to keep reminding myself how long ago this all happened and do the math on ages. What are your thoughts on him, bc73? Do you think he was only questioned because he went to ISA? I only started looking at him when I saw confusion between Arends and Arendz while I was looking for info on Lorenzo! (Lala's possible 5th suspect).  And now I'm more confused.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bc73 on January 09, 2008, 02:35:58 PM
Ahhhhh, my thoughts on him.....First off, every potential "suspect" or "witness", seems to have confusion associated with them(Lorenzo, for example). I feel as though in the very beginning of this cover up, this name kept popping, and all of a sudden, poof, gone!! Moves elsewhere, but once the heat is off, he moves back to hell. As all the posters here know, there is a trail of many who know the real happenings that night. Just a feeling on this clown....First days of investigations and name associations usually pan out, and I think he may be very familiar with the happenings. He was next person mentioned after the three "real suspects". JMO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 09, 2008, 05:59:15 PM
I don't believe that a suspect is being kept hidden........

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one or two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?

And the Arawaks keep their singing card hidden as well
The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

The Arawaks may not need to play the singing card
The cowboys won’t hear the music and the teepees [marriages] will be safe

The Arawaks cannot reveal their singing card
many teepees would be destroyed and the cowboys would get upset
the singing card is bad luck for wampum for many moons

Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it [polis] dirty too.
Dirty hand stays hidden, but all are well-fed.

Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

Babylon needs to allow one sacrifice to keep DirtyHand hidden

The Arawaks want the truth to come out
As long as DirtyHand is not found


Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon?
DirtyHand knows, this is his Power

DirtyHand can break the Alibi




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 09, 2008, 07:13:50 PM
Bringing this over from Kermit about Dirty Hand...thanks Kermit.

   
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #710 1/03 - 1/09/2007
« Reply #926 on: Today at 04:38:55 PM »
   Reply with quoteQuote
For LaLa'smom


#  Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 12:26 pm

Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Simian your Doppleganger is with us


#  Babalú Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am

Concerned

No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.

_________________________________
TITO: Chief of police is Ronny Bernadina
      Deputy chief of police is Gerold Dompig
      Police Comissioner of district 2, Noord is Jan van der Straaten
_____________________________


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 09, 2008, 07:18:12 PM
As I have often said...posters speculated that Dirty Hand was van der Straaten, but Shango never acknowledged that as a fact. Thanks Kermit, I have looked for that information for months now...I should have known that you would know. Smart Frog.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 09, 2008, 07:23:47 PM
Check out Max Arends Myspace account and you'll see drug references, and similiar hand signals throughout his photo albums. His "expertise" is computer tech work, with his website attached. Mum, couldn't log on, so I wasn't able to post. Prob info you already have....


Welcome to the Shango thread.  Please, jump right in and begin your quest to find the answers to one of the most famous riddles on the internet.   :D


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 09, 2008, 07:55:25 PM
I should clarify my last post...Shango never says that Dirty Hand is the Chief of Polis...another poster says that.  Keep that in mind when you think of Dirty Hand.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 09, 2008, 07:57:38 PM
re: Babalu:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open?
Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:11 am
All the Arawaks know the Maze which plays the poison songs

Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid Arawak King who wishes to blame the babylonians for the behaviour of lowly minions.

The Arawak king has DirtyHands and DirtyFeet. If he is to reign anew, he cannot be soiled more.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 09, 2008, 08:29:11 PM
Found a post I have been searching for for some time...please keep in mind that Babalu is a poster that appears to be on Aruba...not always right...but repeats a lot of things they hear on the street.  For the past 24 hours several posters have been trying to deciper Shango and Simian's postings.  Remember that Babalu is the one that makes a guess about Dirty Hand also...I said a guess.  Babalu has been guessing for a while about it all so take it for what it's worth.  The only person this post fits is Joran. IMO

Mum you will find this interesting..

#  Babalú on June 27th, 2005 12:18 am

Rasta

They established earlier, that Arawaks are Colombian, like Arawaks from the Andes.

Also, the filming is at the Kasino, where she is seen in video with suspect #5, the guy she spent her first three days with.

I thought Lordship ws the PM, because he said that he was stepping down soon.

Now the question is, who are the Sumerians???? The Arab Aruba merchants or businessmen?????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 09, 2008, 08:44:47 PM
FYI...it's easier if I just post this in entirety so as not to be accused as taking things out of context. As you can see most everything here is just a guess as to what is the truth.

#  Babalú on June 27th, 2005 12:00 am

Regalee

Tomorrow the’ll let Steve go and nothing much will happen. But the day after tomorrow, they’ll bring again whom Simian calls suspect #5, which I think is the Lorenzo guy, which by the way, Checkme has been talking about him for a long time now. I think he is the guy in the blue van with the huge speakers on top. On Shango’s terms, I dont’t know if he ’s a Babylonian, an Arawak or a Sumerian. He’s probably a Fu__ing A– Hole.


# bond on June 27th, 2005 12:00 am

Thanks to you too Bab!! I need to get all of Simians info together.


# Ragalee on June 27th, 2005 12:02 am

Thx Bab. We’ll see if this comes true for Monday, then Tuesday I’ll have to see for myself what happens since I will be in Aruba.

See ya.


# JayFreddy on June 27th, 2005 12:05 am

Ok, would someone tell me who Simian is supposed to be?


# Babalú on June 27th, 2005 12:06 am

Regalee

By the way, if you go to the internet cafe, look for Deepak later on during the week. He will not be there on tuesday. If we don;t talk tomorrow, have a nice trip, and enjoy your stay.


# new girl on June 27th, 2005 12:06 am

The 46 reference was related to Bifrons. Bifrons is aka the 46th spirit. See: http://www.deliriumsrealm.com/delirium/mythology/bifrons.asp

“The Forty-sixth Spirit is called Bifrons, or Bifrous, or Bifrovs. He is an Earl, and appeareth in the Form of a Monster; but after a while, at the Command of the Exorcist, he putteth on the shape of a Man. His Office is to make one knowing in Astrology, Geometry, and other Arts and Sciences. He teacheth the Virtues of Precious Stones and Woods. He changeth Dead Bodies, and putteth them in another place; also he lighteth seeming Candles upon the Graves of the Dead. He hath under his Command 6 Legions of Spirits.”


# Babalú on June 27th, 2005 12:07 am

JayFreddy

The other day he mentioned that he was Southamerican, but believe me, he is no monkey.


# Babalú on June 27th, 2005 12:09 am

New Girl

So Shamu was saying that the kid is evil. He also said that the father did not walked the paths of the son, so maybe that is why he was let go.


# chimes on June 27th, 2005 12:10 am

bond, are a.k.a. james or 007?


# Rastafai Rabbi on June 27th, 2005 12:12 am

1. The Babylonians are the Dutch, the white man. The Arawaks are the Arubans. The black man. They cannot stand being ruled by the Dutch white man. They were hoping conviction of the father would bring the Dutch ruling house of cards to come tumbling down.

the struggle between the babylonians and the arawaks still remains hidden

the arawaks awaited the key

his lordship said no

the door to eden remains closed

they are preparing the fire


2. The new judge came in and released father Sloot in order to keep Dutch control over Aruba. If a white dutch judge is convicted of a crime there all hell will break loose in the Hague.



His lordship is there to preserve babylon

not the elder

remember dirtyhand!


3. Past tense for the Indian brothers and past tense for the Arubans who had been in contact with her at any time. Present tense for the Dutch who are holding her captive and alive (at this or some other time).



The shivas knew the girl

the arawaks new the girl

and the babylonians still know the girl



4. Dirty hand is not an Aruban but has been there from day one. Not like the Sloots.


DirtyHand is not an Arawak

Many pioneers have settled with the tribe


5. Released the Father today which would have set the domino effect of the outser of foreign invaders from Aruba. The Americans sense all of this but cannot figure it out yet.

The card of babylon was already played

if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation

the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made

Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles

cowboys hear the singing, but the words are not understood

The gods and the babylonians are worried about the cowboys response

6. Local kids play with the younger Sloot children. Where are the younger children today. That or brothels where locals partake in the forbiden European pleasures.



Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon?

DirtyHand knows, this is his Power

there will be 46 sacrifices


7. Either the brother or the Sloot house. Where dirty hand watched or filmed.


You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon

the girl knew this

Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.

But not to satiate desire



8. If they don’t find her tomorrow they never will. Oddly enough one of the rescuers said the same thing. Tomorrow or within 3 days based in there search site info



If the door to eden is to be opened with that key, it will be tomorrow

or forever remained closed



9. and who is dirty hand. the sloots gardner houseboy cook who hears and sees eveyrthing in that house


DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time


# Babalú on June 27th, 2005 12:18 am

Rasta

They established earlier, that Arawaks are Colombian, like Arawaks from the Andes.

Also, the filming is at the Kasino, where she is seen in video with suspect #5, the guy she spent her first three days with.

I thought Lordship ws the PM, because he said that he was stepping down soon.

Now the question is, who are the Sumerians???? The Arab Aruba merchants or businessmen?????


# Concerned on June 27th, 2005 12:19 am

Very disjointed
Dirty Hand is casino link to crimes involving, but bigger than, Natalee missing.



# Babalú on June 27th, 2005 12:20 am

Rasta

Maybe she was filmed during those days too. I guess the younger Babylonians liked doing that.


# Concerned on June 27th, 2005 12:21 am

Arabs are related to this Island????


# Jerry on June 27th, 2005 12:21 am

I think you are all full of shit!


# Concerned on June 27th, 2005 12:22 am

Nice lingua..


# Babalú on June 27th, 2005 12:24 am

Concerned

Like inmigrants established in Aruba, of Lebanese descent, or Syrian descent. Like that. Not the terrorist type.

Jerry

We all are, because you read the stuff.


# Concerned on June 27th, 2005 12:24 am

Is the kasino owned by Arabs?? Anyone??


# Jerry on June 27th, 2005 12:25 am

I thought I was full of shit , well you got me beat!


# edie on June 27th, 2005 12:25 am

It’s funny because we all have been trying to figure this stuff out for days now. Never do we actually get anywhere with it….


# Concerned on June 27th, 2005 12:26 am

Arabs do not equal terrorists. I understand that.
Is Dirty Hand an Arab?



# edie on June 27th, 2005 12:27 am

If Aruba is really the way these cryptic messages portray it I would be scared to go there.



# Babalú on June 27th, 2005 12:27 am

Jerry

I think you are right. Our thirst for information or our addiction to all this tell and tell, have made us developed a taste for crap. Maybe we should go to bed and wake up refreshed and with a better vision of the Babylonians, the Arawaks, Dirty Harry and the Full of Craps.

Goodnight Concerned, Rasta, Chimes, Bond, and whomever may still be here.

Pleasant dreams,


# bond on June 27th, 2005 12:28 am

Chimes, neither it’s bond together :) I’m obbessed with this site and all of you!


# Jerry on June 27th, 2005 12:29 am

There was a piece on 60 minutes or 20/20 where the wealthy arabs would pay people to find boys or girls to have sex with them. Some were paying $20,000 to $30,000 for the night.


# Babalú on June 27th, 2005 12:30 am

Concerned

No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.



# chimes on June 27th, 2005 12:31 am

Now, now, Jerry! You may now go to the Sponge Bob forum.


# Concerned on June 27th, 2005 12:32 am

Is the kasino owned by Arabs?


# Babalú on June 27th, 2005 12:34 am

When I refered to the Arabs, I did because in one of his long poems, Shango makes reference to the Sumerians. So I asummed that. I understand the leading business people in Aruba and Curazao, are very richly rich families of either Arab or Jewish origins, established there for centuries.


# chimes on June 27th, 2005 12:34 am

To my dear bond, I must admit I have a little OCD also! :)


# Babalú on June 27th, 2005 12:36 am

I have been asking the same question several times today, but no answer. I checked the casino at the Marriott, but it belongs to a chain. Again, I do not know who the owners of this chain are, nor do I know if the famous party was at the hotel where the kasino is.


# Babalú on June 27th, 2005 12:37 am

Bye you all.


# Simian on June 27th, 2005 12:39 am

Watch tomorrow, but do not speak, and it will all unfold before you.


# chimes on June 27th, 2005 12:39 am

BaByeGoodNightBabalu!


# Concerned on June 27th, 2005 12:43 am

Hmmmm


# ******* on June 27th, 2005 12:44 am

Can somoene please translate in English all the mumbo jumbo that was said above. What is the prevalent theory among the knowledgeable locals in Aruba. Don’t worry - no Columbians are watching this. You are anonymous - no one will track you down. Please explain in English whether, based on how events have turned, NH was kidnapped by some Columbians or other south americans and taken to a diff island or whether Joran killed her or let her be kidnapped by someone else? This has to end somehow — the American media may eventually leave (maybe after a couple months), but the family will not.


# new girl on June 27th, 2005 12:48 am

Here’s an interesting older post from Simian:

“Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week.

After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him. This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.

First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.

How can this ever be solved?”


# HomoSapienSaySimianSucks on June 27th, 2005 12:49 am

Simian, you are an idiot. I have been silently following this blog since its conception and your mysterious messages merely serve to keep people waiting with bated breath, only to ultimately disappoint. Nobody speaks in prose, esp a non-native English speaker. You’re a monkey.


# Sandy on June 27th, 2005 12:50 am

Thread 1188 made a lot more sense, then Shango came in and started using a different code than Shock and Simian, now none of it makes any sense. I no longer know who any of the cast of characters are–and last night I thought I had it all down pat!


# ******* on June 27th, 2005 12:52 am

Yes, life is not always a suspense novel - there are not any columbiam mobsters monitoring your internet usage. Yes, some people blog to fantasize, but others want genuine information. Enough b.s. - a girl has likely died. Your tourism may not be affected now b/c current travelers could not cancel their planned trips, but people who will book in the future will think twice.


# Sandy on June 27th, 2005 12:52 am

That was in response to *******’s post


# bond on June 27th, 2005 12:52 am

Simian, I will be waiting for song man to be released, Greta to get elders interview and the cowboys to be closer to finding Natalee. Good nite all. until tommorrow


# ******* on June 27th, 2005 12:52 am

Sandy - could you please translate in english - not code?


# Simian on June 27th, 2005 12:54 am

I am leaving. I am done.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 09, 2008, 08:45:23 PM
His lordhip & the 46th:

http://www.cinema.com/people/000/811/joe-pesci/gallery/page_1.phtml


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on January 09, 2008, 08:51:03 PM
# Simian on June 27th, 2005 12:39 am

Watch tomorrow, but do not speak, and it will all unfold before you.
-------------------------
The only thing I am aware of on June 28th is Lorenzo being questioned


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 09, 2008, 08:55:33 PM
or..........did he    "walk with the fallen elder"    ????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 09, 2008, 09:07:35 PM
Finally when Shango wakes up after his nap...he reads Babalu's post and replies with this...

Shango on June 27th, 2005 4:00 am

Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting




Babalú on June 27th, 2005 12:30 am

Concerned

No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.



So is Shango  agreeing that Dirty Hand IS the Chief of Polis or is Shango agreeing that he is head of some local official corps or that he just knows everything?  Shango never comes out and says anything.  In fact the only thing Shango makes perfectly clear is that he does not think Joran is the one that should be prosecuted...Joran is only a scapegoat in all this.  I will stop before I come to a conclusion that might surprise everyone.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 09, 2008, 09:41:26 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

Dirty Hand is the link!






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 09, 2008, 10:05:02 PM
So what info do we have on Bernadina?  I can't get anything to search on here for me.  I think it's my cheap computer or something.  Where would I look?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 09, 2008, 10:29:45 PM
S :-x




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 09, 2008, 10:31:36 PM
S :-x
Sorry, my computer is acting funny and I hit post before I was through. :roll:



Some thoughts from local Arubans....how do I know that?  They said so in previous posts that they were on the island.

Aenim on June 27th, 2005 10:06 am

Babylonians are not the Dutch, they’re the lawmakers (police, prosecuters etc.) Mostly Dutch.

Keep an eye on the other side of the pond


Lucy on June 27th, 2005 10:07 am

So, in conclusion, according to the House of Spirits theory, the Kalpoes lied to protect Joran. All three mentioned the security guard story, but described the Allegro uniforn and John and Jones were detained.

Joran lied, because he didn’t want anybody to know he had been at this party where Natalee stayed (or was forced to stay) AND did not want anyone to ask hem questions about these guys, because he is afraid of them.

Aenim on June 27th, 2005 10:14 am

The Cowboys among others are on the pond as we speak


Lucy on June 27th, 2005 10:14 am

Aenim

Is the pond within, acroos the north, or down south???


#  Lucy on June 27th, 2005 10:23 am

Aenim

One more question, to confirm. North beyond, or North within???
# Aenim on June 27th, 2005 10:24 am

Within
# Kris on June 27th, 2005 10:24 am

Aenim–will they find what they are looking for?

Simian on June 27th, 2005 10:51 am

The Babylonians and the cowboys have swarmed the dirty waters. The dead dogs are stinking.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 09, 2008, 11:57:12 PM
Mum
You will find some of these posts interesting, I am sure. some of this Simian may be the doppleganger Simian posting.


Kris on June 27th, 2005 10:53 am

Simian,
That is the same water you spoke of before, are we still on track with the blue van? I read some of the posts from last night.

Are PK and I still on the right track with the van, speakers and transport?


kristin on June 27th, 2005 10:55 am

kris what did you figure out about the van?


pktbk on June 27th, 2005 10:56 am

sim-do the dead dogs belong to the half brother?

Kris on June 27th, 2005 10:57 am

Kristin,

Last week sometime, we were throwing out the thought of the blue van being used to transport NH to the kidnappers, either drugged in the large speakers or behind them. Simian kept saying that we were getting close.

I’ll look back and see if I can find the posts.

Simian on June 27th, 2005 10:59 am

The cowboys’ steel and wires are screaming. The dirty water is large, deep and too wide, but they are sure there is light on their screen.

The Babylonians will be proven right. All along they were right. The story given by the gamblers might check out after all.


Lucy on June 27th, 2005 11:09 am

Simian

If there is light on the screen who goes??/ #5 or #1. I am still confused.

Lucy on June 27th, 2005 11:12 am

Simian

I know you don’t like to answer questions, but, una concesià ³n chico …

Simian on June 27th, 2005 11:14 am

The road from the boy’s home leads to the dirty water. Look for Noord and look for Moko.

The cowboys feet are wet. They are not quickdraws, they will creep by the inch. It’s deep and wide. The Babylonians need this, before time runs out.


Lucy on June 27th, 2005 11:14 am

pktbk

Yes, the sonar, but what I am referring is to the Babylonians being right, and the gamblers theory proven correct, so If this is the case (which I do not know the details) I will like to know if # 1 or #5 will fall.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bc73 on January 10, 2008, 12:17:18 AM
In my eyes, "Dirty Hand" is also the link that could unravel everything. I do feel Joran is the original player, but it reaches far beyond that. As much as I've read both your posts(Columbo@Lala), give me some maze info please.....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 10, 2008, 05:56:57 AM
# Simian on June 27th, 2005 12:39 am

Watch tomorrow, but do not speak, and it will all unfold before you.
-------------------------
The only thing I am aware of on June 28th is Lorenzo being questioned


Freddy, Carmen then Lorenzo...also Deepak's friend John Croes...all interviewed and Kalpoe stepfather-he was first all interviewed. At this time Freddy appears to be a suspect.

If you take the tomorrow as the 29th because the post was made at 12.39AM...you have Satish interrogation and the transcript of J2K secret recording.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 10, 2008, 06:17:14 AM
Finally when Shango wakes up after his nap...he reads Babalu's post and replies with this...

Shango on June 27th, 2005 4:00 am

Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting




Babalú on June 27th, 2005 12:30 am

Concerned

No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.



So is Shango  agreeing that Dirty Hand IS the Chief of Polis or is Shango agreeing that he is head of some local official corps or that he just knows everything?  Shango never comes out and says anything.  In fact the only thing Shango makes perfectly clear is that he does not think Joran is the one that should be prosecuted...Joran is only a scapegoat in all this.  I will stop before I come to a conclusion that might surprise everyone.



You all have left me with a heap of homework and I'm still looking at what you posted the night before last, Lala's, on the main thread!

Ronny Bernadino was mentioned ages ago, will see what I can find. Jossy always said that van der Stratten was clean.

Lala's...nothing would surprise me......

COLUMBO.....'opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon'...could the view from the Wyndham be the Holiday Inn.

Who was stepping down soon?...van der Stratten and of course Judge Witt...he had already been appointed to the Caribbean Court on 6/1/2005

Came across that interview of a girl who spent an evening with GVC. the one that he received a phone call and said he had to go home.  GVC said to her he worked on a catamaran and that his Dad's company ran all the security for the HI. Why would GVC's lawyer deny this when it has been written so many other places that they did. Same lawyer for Steve Croes and GVC.....More homework......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 10, 2008, 06:47:11 AM
On the cartoon, as VIP was mentioned in the other thread....VCB...there is a v, and a 'p' or 'b' in the sky. Also a 3, the third letter 'c', and a 'c' in the boat. And all those eyes looking out of the windows! What I posted yesterday said that GVC's Dad was 'interrogated' early, not questioned. House for sale...where are they...where does "Willem' fit in?

More homework.......... :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 10, 2008, 09:46:35 AM
M.I.O.-

what is babylon?....a guess- 'what happens in babylon stays in babylon'



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 10, 2008, 10:03:56 AM
M.I.O.-

what is babylon?....a guess- 'what happens in babylon stays in babylon'




LOL...I was just coming back to ask this!  I was thinking all the hotel/casinos. And who would be privy to a whole lot that goes on there? Do we have Dirty Hand or dirty hands? More questions.....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 10, 2008, 10:56:32 AM
I may not be the smartest bulb in the box here...but a lot of this cryptic riddling hinges on the fact that both Simian (which did not riddle often) and Shango were feeding off the posters on the blog.  That is why I have said you have to read it in context.  You can take it line by line and make it work with various ideas and terms. At the same time, you have to have a reference point.  Remember there are several posters that were in Aruba posting during this time that we have either never heard from again or they changed their names to protect the innocent.  :roll:

For example:

Simian on June 27th, 2005 10:59 am

The cowboys’ steel and wires are screaming. The dirty water is large, deep and too wide, but they are sure there is light on their screen.

The Babylonians will be proven right. All along they were right. The story given by the gamblers might check out after all.


If you read it out of context it seems confusing until you find out they are talking about looking in the dump/quarry area near the Sloots home.  The place TES sent in the diver and they were never able to fully check it out because of all the old cars and appliances and other crap in the hole.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 10, 2008, 11:08:58 AM
On the cartoon, as VIP was mentioned in the other thread....VCB...there is a v, and a 'p' or 'b' in the sky. Also a 3, the third letter 'c', and a 'c' in the boat. And all those eyes looking out of the windows! What I posted yesterday said that GVC's Dad was 'interrogated' early, not questioned. House for sale...where are they...where does "Willem' fit in?

More homework.......... :roll:

Yes, indeed...why did they leave?  Did they move to Holland suddenly? Where is GVC now?  I don't know where they are now...maybe nothing...could have been rumors.  I don't have any idea where they are now.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 10, 2008, 11:10:19 AM
Lala's...I'm working on putting all the Shango/Simian posts in order, and hopefully will then be able to add other relevent posters. Maybe then it will make more sense! For me this is easier than going back and forth on the front page.

From fatish, Hawaiian looking Jaime's PV. He is referencing the 30th. here.

At approximately 23.00, I had to pick up my father where he works. My dad works at the Wyndham Hotel. After I picked up my father from work we drove home. At approximately 23.20, we arrived home and I immediately went to sleep.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 10, 2008, 11:32:15 AM
Lala's...I'm working on putting all the Shango/Simian posts in order, and hopefully will then be able to add other relevent posters. Maybe then it will make more sense! For me this is easier than going back and forth on the front page.

From fatish, Hawaiian looking Jaime's PV. He is referencing the 30th. here.

At approximately 23.00, I had to pick up my father where he works. My dad works at the Wyndham Hotel. After I picked up my father from work we drove home. At approximately 23.20, we arrived home and I immediately went to sleep.



I think Jaime or Koen would be the most likely to fit this description.  MOO...
Thanks, I have them located somewhere on my computer in order as you say...there is one post by Simian that is not included in the ones we have now.  I found it by accident many, months ago. I have not been able to find it again.  I mentioned that I had never seen this particular post before and I think Klaas agreed with me...maybe she will remember this or can find it with her magnificent searching abilities.   :wink:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on January 10, 2008, 11:48:10 AM
Bernadina was buddies with American from PHILADELPHIA -  Frank Rizzo
(http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/8844/frankrizzoandberdinaoy1.jpg)


COSBY: Now, Congressman Rizzo, you also—correct me if I‘m wrong here—but I understand that you actually brought up Aruban law enforcement to train, right, up in your area?

RIZZO: Well before the Natalee Holloway case.


COSBY: Are you maybe too close to the government to make an opinion here, because you‘ve got some buddies?

RIZZO: Absolutely. No closer than you are or Juan Ramos is to anyone in Aruba. I don‘t know if my colleague has even been to Aruba. All I can tell you is...

COSBY: No, but I guess what I‘m asking is, do you have friends in the government where maybe you‘re being influenced by that friendship?

(snip)

RIZZO: The reaction, I think Aruba is busier than ever. They don‘t obviously like to have this negative publicity, and they would love to find Natalee Holloway. They understand the pain of the family. And so do I. But I think a boycott is not a very, very smart way to go.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9992345/


(http://www.magic965.com/gallery/albums/Aug06/FESPOLIS190806/Festival_Di_Polis_%2838%29.JPG)

Bernadina was Chief of Police and has 38 years behind his belt in the police force and started at 18 years old.

Ain't it interesting during this entire investigation that the Chief of Police was absent and silent in the most high profile case for 3 years!

Ain't it interesting that he "retired"

Ain't it interesting that the chief of polis is who Shango/Simian refers to

Ain't it interesting that Councilman Frank Rizzo from Philadelphia and his lovely wife Debbie attended Bernadina's birthday party in Aruba. http://www.arubatoday.com/newspaper/November/AT-29-11-06.pdf

Ain't it interesting that Joe Mammama guy was from Philadelphia, wants to help Beth, then is arrested.

http://www.arubatoday.com/newspaper/November/AT-28-11-06.pdf

RIZZO:  I‘m not just concerned about the impact that this can have on Aruba.  We have a company, U.S. Airways, in this city, that sends a lot of people from Philadelphia in this region to Aruba.  This company is, as you know, financially stressed at the moment.  And our unions, a lot of people here in this region, could be affected by a boycott of Aruba. 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9992345/


Rolando F. Bernadina, LLM
Commissioner of Police 2003 - 2006





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 10, 2008, 12:05:07 PM
Thanks Kermit...I was just going to look for info on him...interesting that he retired!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 10, 2008, 12:58:48 PM
According to Shango...dirty hand is the one that can break this case wide open....hmmmmm...well we are still waiting...we know who is might be...and still...unless Dirty Hand talks nothing happens so we are still at square one...again.

If Dirty Hand knows who provided the escort after the Kalpoes left....where was he at the time of this happening so early in the morning?  Was he at a party too? What does he know and what keeps him silent?  Just thinking out loud again...only more questions.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 10, 2008, 01:36:04 PM
Msmaple just posted this in Natalee's thread, thanks Msmaple:

Armed driver of car at Palace (Place?) of Justice. Doesn't seem to indicate whether he was caught. Apparently a case (cases) involving 10 +/- drug suspects was about to begin.

Nan a mira un homber cu arma den man!.
Alerta rond di corte di husticia       
Thursday, 10 January 2008 

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Diaranzon mainta, oficialnan di Polis como tambe Recherche a bay den alerta maximo, specialmente den area rond di Palacio di Husticia.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 10, 2008, 08:43:58 PM
Lala's:

"He holds the real key."


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 10, 2008, 08:45:32 PM
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:39 am
The threadsurfers are opening the door to babylon


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 10, 2008, 09:38:39 PM
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:50 pm
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05.
He had been brought in for questioning that day

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:22 pm
This is not my theory. This is for real.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:26 pm
The alibi story is the almost the latest.
The latest is that there’s a gap in the time-line for the boys.
It is true that one of them tried to off himself.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:29 pm
I did not say an ex. Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.

Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape.  Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.

Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:55 pm
He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sirensong on January 11, 2008, 12:04:35 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

Dirty Hand is the link!


i just had to throw this out there after reading this.  If Babylonians are the police, this means the police escorted Natalee and Joran, possibly to a party or after hours club.  The police have been seen in photos carousing with the tourists.  This could mean the Chief of Police knows the policemen that hang out with Joran and other kids of prominent people on the island ( Koen,  GVC, Michael Dompig, Steve Croes etc.) and all about the parties they attend?  Thinking out loud.   







Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 11, 2008, 06:00:34 AM
The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys [a clue here?]

The maze of Babylon is very difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent

Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.

here is what I believe Shango means by 'playing cards' (not poker!)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty.
Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.
If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons.
DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 11, 2008, 09:27:14 AM
Still two days behind and found this while looking for stuff on the casino for Lala's


MORE COINCIDENCE...............



UNCAPHER:  Well, normally, they‘ve been searching from the lighthouse to the Alta Vista, which is a church which they think that Natalee may be.   And then this area, there is just a lot of brush and just a lot of ground to cover and also little homes that we may think that, you know, people don‘t have cable or—we can‘t imagine people not knowing about this, but we are just trying to go out there just to see if, you know, people haven‘t heard about it.

CACERES,  JAIME, Alberto Carrasquilia (DOB 4-25-85) - born in Columbia, E.P.I.(Sector Economico)  reportedly one of the PIMPS. Drives a 4 door green Honda Civic, 1997 or 1998. Nickname “Beto”   The places he frequents are "Carlos & Charlies", "Bahia", Tandra", "Cinema" and the beach near the big hotels. Met Joran through Freddy in 2004.  Worked at Caribbean Overseas (June 2005).  Lives in the hamlet of Alto Vista, Aruba.   Interviewed by ALE on two occasions, 6-17-05 and 8-30-05.Joran met Jaime through Freddy according to Joran’s book.


On the way to the Alto Vista Chapel there is a paved road on the left leading to a water tank on a hill. The view from there encompasses the entire north end of the island including a good panoramic view of the Palm Beach hotels, the lighthouse, and the golf course.

http://www.orrin.org/aruba/
Looks like the road to Alto vista is not paved. See picture at link above.

‘Built by Spanish missionaries in 1750, services are still conducted in this little yellow chapel that is considered to be the first church...’

Looks more gold in this pic.

http://hotels.about.com/od/aruba/ig/Aruba-Pictures/Chapel-of-Alto-Vista.htm




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 11, 2008, 11:00:53 AM
Found these this morning and because Lala’s mentioned Guido the other day I thought I would post here.

Only people we have interviewed info on at this time, other than J2K on 5/31, are Guido, June 3rd, 7th, and 8th, and the Kalpoe mother and stepfather on 6/2.

From June 5th 2005….8.34AM …Arbeej

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?t=2244&page=6



quote:
"* One of the 3 original "persons of interest" is the son of a Judge on the island of Aruba..."

This was actually confirmed for us by an Aruban news reporter. He confirmed that one is the son of a judge, the other the son of a lawyer. It was not, however, clarified as to whether their Dads and the rest of the families live and work on Aruba. The three boys, though born in other countries, are legal residents of Aruba. I do not Know long they have lived there, but they are indeed legal residents.                   
                         ------------------------------------------------------------------


This from Anderson Cooper –aired June 3rd at 7PM

Lieutenant Comenencia, can you hear me?

LT. PEPITO COMENENCIA, ARUBA POLICE DEPT.: Yes.

COOPER: Where does the search now stand? What have you been doing to find Natalee?

COMENENCIA: What do we do when we got a lot of tips coming from the whole community. And what we do in regarding the search, investigate all those tips that are coming in until we get and get nothing about those tips that are coming in. But now we are going to close the case a little bit more and I say then we're going over to arrest people. So we don't know yet. The investigation is still going now around. And they're saying maybe for tomorrow, I'm going to have more information for you about this case.


                       --------------------------------------------------------------------------

These posts at this link almost make Joran sound like the ‘boyfriend from earlier in the week’. A lot of reading so you may want to save for later. Now I’m confused. LOL
http://scrux.com/natalee/alanapostings.htm




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 11, 2008, 12:59:55 PM
Lala's...before you write me up in your brand new book with those brand new pencils Santa gave you, I did read what you said about the blond, blue-eyed Dutch boy. I found the 19th. and 20th. very interesting.....

http://www.katablog.com/month_blogs.cfm?m=5&y=2006&pagenum=2



At this rate I'll stay two days behind....all I'm trying to find out is why he was questioned so early and who his Mom and Pop are! :-?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 11, 2008, 03:18:50 PM
Lala's...before you write me up in your brand new book with those brand new pencils Santa gave you, I did read what you said about the blond, blue-eyed Dutch boy. I found the 19th. and 20th. very interesting.....

http://www.katablog.com/month_blogs.cfm?m=5&y=2006&pagenum=2



At this rate I'll stay two days behind....all I'm trying to find out is why he was questioned so early and who his Mom and Pop are! :-?

Never write you up.   :wink:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 11, 2008, 05:56:25 PM
playing cards in the house of babylon 'as an arawak'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRK-CQVQevQ&feature=related


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: private eye on January 12, 2008, 09:08:34 AM
I have read Simian and Shango to death and I can tell you Simain was repeating what the ALE was guessing at.  Why do people keep saying "the jealous boyfriend from earlier in the week", yet no has any idea who that person was.  Not one picture, not one name.  Just some lame reference to a kid that liked Natalee back in the 9th grade which was a bogus and typical lie coming from the disinformation brigade.

The cover up began immediately and Simian was towing the line with ALE.

Well Truthseeker, I guess the name that pops up in my mind is that of Jeremy Brown. He's often referred to as the ex-boyfriend of Natalee. He was in the CnC's that night as well and even danced with Natalee for a while. There's also a persisting rumor that he didn't fly back with the other students on May 30th (just for some more free giggles -> this is also stated in Joran's book...). There are also stories that this has been falsified by American Airlines.

There's also the boy who yelled at Natalee to get out off Deepak's car and the theory that the reason she actually got into the car was to make some guy jealous.

So, if Simian was repeating what the ALE was guessing at, that doesn't rule out that they were onto something. I actually like this Simian guy, since he at least provided some counterweight against the incredibly biased US media/forum hypes that were created around this case from day one (I know that I'm not "preaching for the choir" here at Scared Monkeys by saying this... 8)). The ALE weren't allowed any access into the rapidly closed MB student community (the maze). Only interviewed by the FBI. This to the frustration of the Aruban investigators.

I'm really surprised that Simian et al, had developed this hypothesis already so early in the game (3 weeks after she'd gone missing), when all the media attention was only focused on J2K and their lies. He also knows weird details about "killing his own dogs", which never has been brought in connection to Joran.

In any criminal case, it's very logical to first look for people with a motive as well as the opportunity to commit a crime. An ex-boyfriend typically is a likely suspect to have a motive (just read the newspapers) and I wouldn't be surprised that he actually wasn't at a party that night (covered by his friends), but spotted Joran and Natalee at the beach,followed them and killed Natalee after Joran had left (or when he was still there and was threatened by Jeremy so he fled the scene barefoot. However this would mean Joran is innocent and would provoke the question why Joran didn't "rat him out").

Quote
But for giggles, let's say there WAS a 'boyfriend' from earlier in the week.  Why has Joron or the Kalpoes ratted him out?  Why did the lie about dropping her off at the HI and don't give me any of that "they panicked" bs.  Why did they say she hit her head not only in that lie, but in the lies Joran was telling at school two days later when conveying yet a different story.  It would be easier to rat out the "boyfriend from earlier in the week" that to tell all these lies.

Indeed. Unless Joran and that ex-boyfriend, for what ever reason got rid of the body together after an encounter/fight on the beach. Joran has told best friend Freddy about "they" were at the beach and couldn't bring back Natalee from unconsciousness. I'm absolutely with you that Joran knows more about what happened that night at the beach and either he has something to conceal or he is threatened in such a way that he's not allowed to talk. There's no other explanation for so many lies. I've posted a theory at Scrux that Satish returned to the beach and that the Gardener indeed saw the three boys in the Deepak's car near the pond. I had only two people, but now we have three (i.c. Joran, + Jeremy, Satish and the expired body of Natalee). 

Anyway, not well thought out at all, just dropping random thoughts. So, please save the giggles. Need to think this through better first. :smile:

Jeremy Brown was NOT Natalee's boyfriend. Natalee did have a boy she "fancied" and he her, but they never committed to being boyfriend and girlfriend and the boy was not on the trip or even in the same grade as Natalee. If there was even a remote possibility that a boy from Mt Brook harmed her in any way, even hurt her feelings, I know of at least three girls on that trip that would have immediately told Beth, the FBI, the ALE, the world, and anyone else who would listen, and they would have jumped on him and beat the holy crap out of him themselves. Natalee had very very very good friends with her. How they got separated, I don't know, it was just a perfect storm for a moment that allowed this to happen. In addition her cousins, her step brothers cousins were there, and I am positive that they would have told her step brother, who is simply in a class by himself as far as integrity and do right go. Please feel free to discuss it all you like, but you are barking up the wrong tree. I'll concede though I don't know who Jeremy Brown personally. A date to a formal event DOES NOT mean relationship. The crush Natalee had on the boy not there had been ongoing for a couple of years, was mutual, and was the ONLY boy I know of that Natalee ever seriously liked. Its ashame that they never made it to the public relationship stage because he is a really sweet cute kid and they deserved the chance to develop the relationship. But she really did care a lot for him. And he is irrelevant to this as he was not in Aruba or even in her grade so his name will not become public. He knows who he is and he knows he was special to Natallee and that is all that matters.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 12, 2008, 09:41:13 AM
Found a post I have been searching for for some time...please keep in mind that Babalu is a poster that appears to be on Aruba...not always right...but repeats a lot of things they hear on the street.  For the past 24 hours several posters have been trying to deciper Shango and Simian's postings.  Remember that Babalu is the one that makes a guess about Dirty Hand also...I said a guess.  Babalu has been guessing for a while about it all so take it for what it's worth.  The only person this post fits is Joran. IMO

Mum you will find this interesting..

#  Babalú on June 27th, 2005 12:18 am

Rasta

They established earlier, that Arawaks are Colombian, like Arawaks from the Andes.

Also, the filming is at the Kasino, where she is seen in video with suspect #5, the guy she spent her first three days with.

I thought Lordship ws the PM, because he said that he was stepping down soon.

Now the question is, who are the Sumerians???? The Arab Aruba merchants or businessmen?????


193.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.
Posted Jun 22, 4:50 PM

If Simian is truly Aruban then I believe the 'other side of the pond' is The Netherlands. Though later on he refers to the US as this. This was after he did his about face...LOL being trying to translate some of his later posts.

What happened on the 28th. to cause this?

All I can see from the log is Freddy, Lorenzo and the Kalpoe stepdad being questioned? Wonder why the stepdad, remember he was questioned on June 2nd. and was rewarded with the Internet Cafe.

Simian says the man from the inside will call soon...did he start being fed erroneous info...that is if he is not Clyde Burke! :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 12, 2008, 09:55:06 AM
Thanks PI....If indeed there was a 'boyfriend from earlier in the week', which I would take as someone who fancied Natalee, I see him as someone Natalee never knew before she went to Aruba.

Some possibilities....a Dutch boy who flew the coop....a pimp buddy of Joran....or an out of the box one here.....an American 'tourist' she met at the casino or on the beach.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 12, 2008, 10:16:22 AM
Still back on the 9th.

#  Babalú on June 27th, 2005 12:00 am

Regalee

Tomorrow the’ll let Steve go and nothing much will happen. But the day after tomorrow, they’ll bring again whom Simian calls suspect #5, which I think is the Lorenzo guy, which by the way, Checkme has been talking about him for a long time now. I think he is the guy in the blue van with the huge speakers on top. On Shango’s terms, I dont’t know if he ’s a Babylonian, an Arawak or a Sumerian. He’s probably a Fu__ing A– Hole. See my next to last post as to who was questioned on the 28th...that we know of!


# bond on June 27th, 2005 12:00 am

Thanks to you too Bab!! I need to get all of Simians info together.


# Ragalee on June 27th, 2005 12:02 am

Thx Bab. We’ll see if this comes true for Monday, then Tuesday I’ll have to see for myself what happens since I will be in Aruba. This post was made early on the 27th, bearly after midnight, so I'm assuming that Ragalee is leaving for Aruba on the 28th.
See ya.


# JayFreddy on June 27th, 2005 12:05 am

Ok, would someone tell me who Simian is supposed to be?


# Babalú on June 27th, 2005 12:06 am

Regalee

By the way, if you go to the internet cafe, look for Deepak later on during the week. He will not be there on tuesday. If we don;t talk tomorrow, have a nice trip, and enjoy your stay.
How did this poster know on the 27th that he would be ordered released on Wednesday July4th? Or are they referring to what Simian said about the Kalpoes being released? June 25th...they might release the Hindus....there are a couple of others, but this is the first one I found!

Regardless he tells to look up Deepak! Did we have any inkling at this time that they may have been released?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 12, 2008, 11:16:59 AM
His lordhip & the 46th:

http://www.cinema.com/people/000/811/joe-pesci/gallery/page_1.phtml


This Martin Scorsese film depicts the Janus-like   :shock: quality of Las Vegas--it has a glittering, glamorous face, as well as a brutal, cruel one.

The Casablanca – Located  in the Wyndham Resort, the casino feautures a bar and live music. Big-buck gamblers gather in the back and the Cabaret Royal Showroom features a review from Havana.


Still working on his lordship......



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 12, 2008, 11:26:53 AM
Finally when Shango wakes up after his nap...he reads Babalu's post and replies with this...

Shango on June 27th, 2005 4:00 am

Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting




Babalú on June 27th, 2005 12:30 am

Concerned

No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.



So is Shango  agreeing that Dirty Hand IS the Chief of Polis or is Shango agreeing that he is head of some local official corps or that he just knows everything?  Shango never comes out and says anything.  In fact the only thing Shango makes perfectly clear is that he does not think Joran is the one that should be prosecuted...Joran is only a scapegoat in all this.  I will stop before I come to a conclusion that might surprise everyone.




Wish you wouldn't.....

So is it Bernadina...or GVC's Daddy....or if the houses of Babylon are in fact the casinos...then......?????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 12, 2008, 11:43:58 AM
So what info do we have on Bernadina?  I can't get anything to search on here for me.  I think it's my cheap computer or something.  Where would I look?


Must be my computer too, and I haven't decided yet if I'm going to get a new one(Vista) or fix this one. Sorta funny how it tracks me around the net! But I didn't find much on old Ronnie in English either and it was taking so long to translate pages, I let it go. Will look again on Monday.

Beginning to think the window that opened wasn't in ALE. They all, being whichever one spoke, backtracked at one time or other. Seems someone else was pulling ALE's strings! Heck even Mos backtracked and he was relatively new on the island.

Who could possibly keep all these in check????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 12, 2008, 11:58:16 AM
In my eyes, "Dirty Hand" is also the link that could unravel everything. I do feel Joran is the original player, but it reaches far beyond that. As much as I've read both your posts(Columbo@Lala), give me some maze info please.....


Hi...bc73....bringing this forward so that maybe you will get some maze info.
Sorry I meant to do it yesterday, but forgot as I'm still a page back.

Columbo....do you still read the main thread? I am only asking as Lala's and ******* posted some interesting thoughts a few nights back and am not sure if you would have seen them. The one about Freddy being detained since June 9th!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 12, 2008, 12:07:18 PM
Oh...and to add to the link from yesterday about two arrests in The Netherlands in 2006, the only persons questioned in Aruba around that time appear to be Andres Meneses and his friend. Though I remember there was more when this was discussed way back, the one I looked at this morning was the plane photographer from Costa Rica. I don't guess we ever did find out who he was.


One last thought...maybe Guido was questioned early as to who he saw in the casino earlier in the week. And then as Anna once stated, everyone was arrested, so as they couldn't talk.....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 12, 2008, 04:59:57 PM
Mum:

His Lordship......in the clip......there to preserve Babylon......check again......he's received alot of unwanted attention since this thing started.......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 12, 2008, 05:39:34 PM
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:27 pm
The cowboys have only so much gold. The territory is rough. There are many secrets, but the Arawaks are helping.
The palace is open to all, but the palace is a maze to most.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD44ouab5pc


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 13, 2008, 02:13:22 PM
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:39 am
The threadsurfers are opening the door to babylon

Shedding light on the underbelly of Aruba and the Dutch involvement there?  Exposing the corruption and evil that exists?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 13, 2008, 02:19:48 PM
M.I.O.-

what is babylon?....a guess- 'what happens in babylon stays in babylon'



I know I have asked this before and I think I already know the answer, but you are saying that babylon is a metaphor for the casinos and the gamblers, is that right? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 13, 2008, 05:05:40 PM
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damage he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away.
The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Why did the girl owe money?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
Who knows what song the elder will sing

The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys
 
[who knew? = who was owed $?]
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl
the arawaks new the girl
and the babylonians still know the girl

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:36 pm
All that the gamblers knew was written down (a poison note-follow the $?). They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand! (comps)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 14, 2008, 09:23:15 AM
Found this about when Guido was arrested. There is some interesting posts on page 1 and the first couple on page 2. Too many to copy so I'm putting the link.

Lala's....I think you will find this interesting.

COLUMBO...Is this what you're trying to tell me with all those Youtubes?

http://tinyurl.com/2xy2p5



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 14, 2008, 01:08:34 PM
For Lala's....still looking....


Rolando F. Bernadina, LLM
Commissioner of Police 2003 – 2006

http://www.fbinaa.org/public/articles/details.cfm?id=1131


http://www.fbinaa.org/public/articles/205_RosterCurrent2007.doc


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=rolando+bernadina




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 14, 2008, 02:16:41 PM
For Lala's....still looking....


Rolando F. Bernadina, LLM
Commissioner of Police 2003 – 2006

http://www.fbinaa.org/public/articles/details.cfm?id=1131


http://www.fbinaa.org/public/articles/205_RosterCurrent2007.doc


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=rolando+bernadina




Thanks for all the links...I have been reading it all. Some I had already seen before.  The stuff about Bernadina was some I knew was out there....your search skills are good.  Thing is I am even more confused now, according to all the stuff you have linked to...Bernadina is a Commissioner and not the Chief of Police.  Once again, it only leads to more questions.  The poster Babalu that used the words Chief of Police could have just said that because they had no other reference to go on but that term.  Then again, that could be what his title really is...how do we know for sure. Shango never says that is the right answer only that some windows are being opened.  He never comes out and says yes, that is Dirty Hand.  I will say this, from what I have read that you provided...it does seem that Dirty Hand walks "in all circles".  He's a part of a variety of organizations and has many duties. So I am confused again. 

I wonder who Colombo thinks is Dirty Hand for sure?  Did he ever tell us if he thought Paulus was the 5th?  I enjoyed your Lorenzo info.  There has always been confusion between the two, Lorenzo and Guido.  I think it is all Tito's fault...he didn't have the names right or he was intentionally trying to misdirect as I sometimes think Shango does.  Remember, Simian talks 5th suspect and Shango talks Dirty Hand...two enigmatic figures that may or may not have anything to with anything.  This case is more complicated than anything I have ever heard or read about.  MOO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 14, 2008, 02:24:31 PM
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damage he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away.
The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl. Paulus and Joran are the gamblers.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Why did the girl owe money? Natalee did not owe money to anyone, it was someone else. Shango must have known by now that it was not Natalee that Joran was helping get money back at the BJ table.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
Who knows what song the elder will sing 

The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys Paulus must be the fallen judge.  Does Shango mean that both Joran and Paulus were in this together or often did this together?  It could.
 
[who knew? = who was owed $?]
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl 
the arawaks new the girl 
and the babylonians still know the girl

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:36 pm
All that the gamblers knew was written down (a poison note-follow the $?). They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables. Did Paulus and Joran have a scheme worked out to fleece tourists of money or other things? Did Paulus always sit in the same spot where the camera could not see his face?  Is that a plan?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon To protect the casinos and thus the money?
not the elder
remember dirtyhand! (comps)




Just a few thoughts, they mean nothing, just thinking.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 14, 2008, 02:37:37 PM
Hi Lala's...talk about confusing...I just found a Guido Gottenbos! LOL

And that Sander also played tennis in 2005 ...seems he represented Aruba in the pre-qualifying for the Junior Davis Cup. So he also knew his way around the Racquet Club.

I'm still thinking on COLUMBO'S clues....I keep coming up with at least two answers. I'm not sure if a Babylonian is a Dutchman, runs the casinos or the whole system anymore...LOL

Even Jossy is confused...he said Koen left 2 days after Natalee disappeared and never returned. Well there are statements....

Do we know if Guido is Aruban or Dutch? I'm getting kinda stuck on someone else running off to the Netherlands...but that's because in the back of my mind I have one of the SG's mothers saying 'dutch brothers' from an influential family.

Re the Chief of Polis...I'm still not sure which part of that post opens the window.

I know too that I've read about other 'arrests' from Aruban posters that were getting way more info than we got from our news crews.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 14, 2008, 04:45:20 PM
Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders
[play "the game"-pg 4:  http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf   ]

Shango Says:June 27th, 2005 at 4:00 am
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12 (not DirtyHand)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak 

DirtyHand walks in ALL houses
houses of the Arawaks (polis/gov't), and houses of Rave (not parties per se, but where lions 'rave')

His reach is long (as in 'the long-arm...?')

He is the link!

Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this (small) house of Babylon. (small house=hotel room?)
But not to satiate desire.

He holds the real key

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation
meet, under cover of delusion.

(reversed.....where the Arawak Nation (gov't officials, polis) meet the children of the babylonians- the pimps, gardeners)

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
Windows looking onto Babylon are being opened by the ThreadSurfers


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 14, 2008, 05:26:42 PM
Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders
[play "the game"-pg 4:  http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf   ]

Shango Says:June 27th, 2005 at 4:00 am
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12 (not DirtyHand)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak 

DirtyHand walks in ALL houses
houses of the Arawaks (polis/gov't), and houses of Rave (not parties per se, but where lions 'rave')

His reach is long (as in 'the long-arm...?')

He is the link!

Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this (small) house of Babylon. (small house=hotel room?)
But not to satiate desire.

He holds the real key

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation
meet, under cover of delusion.

(reversed.....where the Arawak Nation (gov't officials, polis) meet the children of the babylonians- the pimps, gardeners)

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
Windows looking onto Babylon are being opened by the ThreadSurfers


Gosh!  I don't know what is more difficult...trying to interpret Shango or Colombo?  :roll:

So who is dirty hand?  Is this the same person that Eleye thought as well?  Please throw me a bone here...I am old and dumb.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 14, 2008, 05:39:52 PM
dirty hand

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders
[play "the game"-pg 4:  http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf   ]


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 14, 2008, 05:44:36 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

 - - - - - - - - - - -

Why did the girl owe money?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:26 pm
The maze of Babylon is very difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent
The Arawaks cannot reveal their singing card
many teepees would be destroyed and the cowboys would get upset




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 14, 2008, 07:57:31 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

 - - - - - - - - - - -

Why did the girl owe money?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:26 pm
The maze of Babylon is very difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent
The Arawaks cannot reveal their singing card
many teepees would be destroyed and the cowboys would get upset




That darn singing card once again....is it Joran?  Steve Croes?  Guido?  Could it be Joran and Paulus? (they are of the same hand).  They retracted the confession. If Joran was the singing card...they didn't let him sing.  Natalee did not owe money.  It was another girl, so did they think it was Natalee?  Did someone else owe money and Natalee was considered a pay off of the debt?  Is that why she was drugged?  So she couldn't remember being the payment?  Did Joran get jealous and decided to take some for himself?  I know we have been over all this before.   Yes, I am rolling my eyes again. :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 14, 2008, 08:48:52 PM
that post was in answer to two of your questions

The singing card was in the same hand as the fallen judge.....the singing card was DirtyHand


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 14, 2008, 08:50:29 PM
the singing card was held, then 'walked' with the elder


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 14, 2008, 08:59:30 PM
Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this (small) house of Babylon. (small house=hotel room?)
But not to satiate desire.

He holds the real key

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes (money?)
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation
meet
, under cover of delusion.

He is the link!

Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this (small) house of Babylon. (small house=hotel room?)
But not to satiate desire.

He holds the real key



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: BUCKSHOT on January 14, 2008, 11:39:05 PM
Shango and Simian probably gave coded messages at the onset for a few weeks....

But as time went on, and identities were close to being compromised, I feel they retreated, vanished, and/or manifested away.  Their posts went from subtle (and maybe truthful) clues to multiple a.k.a.'s, slowly adding comic book language so as to distance themselves from being discovered by their own people.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 15, 2008, 10:13:18 AM
that post was in answer to two of your questions

The singing card was in the same hand as the fallen judge.....the singing card was DirtyHand

So who is it?  If the singing card IS the same person as Dirty Hand and he walked with Paulus...then Ben King comes to mind. Walked?  Where?  When did he walk with Paulus?  When he was released from jail?  When he was at the house and they came to search?  That could be others as well. 

Okay, we have these candidates for Dirty Hand...
van der Straaten
Ben King
Rudy Croes
Ronny Bernadina
who else works in ALE? 

Trying to figure this out.  Who did I miss?  Just tell me who you think is Dirty Hand. PLEASE!! :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 15, 2008, 11:08:47 AM
Shango and Simian probably gave coded messages at the onset for a few weeks....

But as time went on, and identities were close to being compromised, I feel they retreated, vanished, and/or manifested away.  Their posts went from subtle (and maybe truthful) clues to multiple a.k.a.'s, slowly adding comic book language so as to distance themselves from being discovered by their own people.


Simian....it wasn't just Joran it was another person a 5th suspect.  The 5th suspect is the person that is really responsible for what happened to Natalee.  Who is the 5th?

Shango....Joran was just a scapegoat in all this.  The PTB are the ones responsible and it is being controlled by Dirty Hand.  He doesn't participate, but it's a racket.  Most of the time no one gets hurt.  Who is Dirty Hand?

Both claim Joran is not the only one involved and the Kalpoes are basically relegated to a lower status than Joran.  They didn't know what happened after they left Joran and Natalee.  Joran is afraid of someone else...he won't talk because he's scared.  Afraid of whom?   Sometimes I think we read way too much into these riddles.  Simian and Shango are cowards. They could come to the FP and answer all these questions, yet they choose not to...why?  They are cowards!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 15, 2008, 11:57:17 AM

82.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The new hammer and block could not island hop. The Babylonians can’t keep the gates shut forever. The days are 116 and they each have a number.
The Babylonians can’t use the whip on the boy. A elder is playing mute. If he doesn’t know, why did he heed the call?
The music man is singing. His song is not on the bill. One witness is not a witness.
Posted Jun 25, 9:16 PM



I started to wonder about this new judge so went back and read the thread. There is no interaction between Shango and Simian on this thread. Only Simian is posting.

ON this thread it is said that there will be two more arrests tomorrow and one is the Chief of Polis!

From here on there were not two more arrests, in fact Steve and Paulus were released. Three questioned on the 28th. Freddy, Lorenzo and Luis Ramirez. What does he have to do with this? Is he an elder? Does he work in the casinos like Jaime’s Dad. Where does Freddy’s Dad work? Are they all part of COLUMBO’S game?

Why have the federales left? Why have Beth and Greta left?
Why could the judge not island hop? Who was the new judge? Who was the old judge?

They don’t own the hammer and the block…did they?  (Judge Witt was assigned to the Caribbean Court on June 1st, but still managed to make some decisions in this case. Most later decisions were made by Judge Smid)




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 15, 2008, 12:12:32 PM



Another thought from the same front page thread:

1.   subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:26 pm
Edie: The “Hindus” are the Kalpoes from Surinam and practice Hindu religion, I believe. Mrs Kalpoe made reference to Hindu altar in her home on Greta interview.
Aruban police are trying to get around PVDS mastermind scheme to avoid prosecution and have son do same by hiding behind the privilege of not being able to be compelled to testify against another family member.
But, per Simian, there is a wrinkle.

 
Out of the box, maybe, but if Lorenzo is related to Paulus, then he cannot testify against his Dad or brother. Is this the DNA results that they were waiting on.

91.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
…unless the package from The Hague says that he is implicated. The evidence has him in a legal checkmate. He cannot deny.






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 15, 2008, 12:15:18 PM

82.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The new hammer and block could not island hop. The Babylonians can’t keep the gates shut forever. The days are 116 and they each have a number.
The Babylonians can’t use the whip on the boy. A elder is playing mute. If he doesn’t know, why did he heed the call?
The music man is singing. His song is not on the bill. One witness is not a witness.
Posted Jun 25, 9:16 PM



I started to wonder about this new judge so went back and read the thread. There is no interaction between Shango and Simian on this thread. Only Simian is posting.

ON this thread it is said that there will be two more arrests tomorrow and one is the Chief of Polis!

From here on there were not two more arrests, in fact Steve and Paulus were released. Three questioned on the 28th. Freddy, Lorenzo and Luis Ramirez. What does he have to do with this? Is he an elder? Does he work in the casinos like Jaime’s Dad. Where does Freddy’s Dad work? Are they all part of COLUMBO’S game?

Why have the federales left? Why have Beth and Greta left?
Why could the judge not island hop? Who was the new judge? Who was the old judge?

They don’t own the hammer and the block…did they?  (Judge Witt was assigned to the Caribbean Court on June 1st, but still managed to make some decisions in this case. Most later decisions were made by Judge Smid)




You are beginning to think like me...be very afraid.  LOL

Now, the island hopping judge could be a reference to the judge that missed hi flight from Curacao one time and they had to wait until the next day or so.  I have forgotten what it was all about now. 

Yes, what does Ramirez have to do with this? Just verifying things that were already stated?  It is interesting.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 15, 2008, 12:37:54 PM
Lol...Lala's...I believe they said he did miss his flight. But why? Which judge showed up to release Croes and Paulus? there is a reason they keep all those judges names secret IMO. More homework!....

Been looking at the 'Chief of Polis"...they called them all Chiefs, Deputy Chiefs, it gets confusing. I have read that Dompig was put in there because of his son and GVC.

Trying to remember that 'Dirty Hand' was not an "arawak' and had been around a long time. I saw that von Cromvoit moved to Aruba 1997, but who the heck knows who he knew on the 'other side of the pond'.

Did read a post this morning that questioned if Anita ever really was in the Netherlands and recalled Judge Witt, about the search warrant, that it would be a conflict of interest for him to allow the whole house search as he was staying with Paulus and Anita. No way to tell if he meant the weekend of June15th. or the weekend that Natalee disappeared. Have also read posts where Anita was questioned and one that said 'No, the mother was not arrested'. Maybe none of the family was in Holland.

Who knows...like you I have never seen anything like it!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on January 15, 2008, 12:58:29 PM
Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this (small) house of Babylon. (small house=hotel room?)
But not to satiate desire.

He holds the real key

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes (money?)
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation
meet
, under cover of delusion.

He is the link!

Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this (small) house of Babylon. (small house=hotel room?)
But not to satiate desire.

He holds the real key



Palus was not a judge.  What about Wit or Smid?  Also Joran has a small house.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on January 15, 2008, 01:32:55 PM
Lol...Lala's...I believe they said he did miss his flight. But why? Which judge showed up to release Croes and Paulus? there is a reason they keep all those judges names secret IMO. More homework!....

Been looking at the 'Chief of Polis"...they called them all Chiefs, Deputy Chiefs, it gets confusing. I have read that Dompig was put in there because of his son and GVC.

Trying to remember that 'Dirty Hand' was not an "arawak' and had been around a long time. I saw that von Cromvoit moved to Aruba 1997, but who the heck knows who he knew on the 'other side of the pond'.

Did read a post this morning that questioned if Anita ever really was in the Netherlands and recalled Judge Witt, about the search warrant, that it would be a conflict of interest for him to allow the whole house search as he was staying with Paulus and Anita. No way to tell if he meant the weekend of June15th. or the weekend that Natalee disappeared. Have also read posts where Anita was questioned and one that said 'No, the mother was not arrested'. Maybe none of the family was in Holland.

Who knows...like you I have never seen anything like it!

I was thinking the judge's flight was delayed or canceled, so I just searched for something...found a couple articles...this one from 6/25/05 says it was delayed several times and he postponed decision to Sunday, 6/26/05.

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2005/06/25/hearing_of_five_suspects_in_aruba_delayed/5503/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 15, 2008, 02:36:51 PM
Lol...Lala's...I believe they said he did miss his flight. But why? Which judge showed up to release Croes and Paulus? there is a reason they keep all those judges names secret IMO. More homework!....

Been looking at the 'Chief of Polis"...they called them all Chiefs, Deputy Chiefs, it gets confusing. I have read that Dompig was put in there because of his son and GVC.

Trying to remember that 'Dirty Hand' was not an "arawak' and had been around a long time. I saw that von Cromvoit moved to Aruba 1997, but who the heck knows who he knew on the 'other side of the pond'.

Did read a post this morning that questioned if Anita ever really was in the Netherlands and recalled Judge Witt, about the search warrant, that it would be a conflict of interest for him to allow the whole house search as he was staying with Paulus and Anita. No way to tell if he meant the weekend of June15th. or the weekend that Natalee disappeared. Have also read posts where Anita was questioned and one that said 'No, the mother was not arrested'. Maybe none of the family was in Holland.

Who knows...like you I have never seen anything like it!

Read your Shango again...there is an Arawak Dirty Hand in this mix.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 15, 2008, 02:42:16 PM
the singing card was held, then 'walked' with the elder

walked as in was released from suspect status? 
walked as in physically walked side by side?
walked as in just accompanied Paulus?

Lots of names come to mind, but it does return to holding the key to all this.  If we ever figure out who is dirty hand what good does it do us now?  Can anyone tell I am beginning to get ever so frustrated?  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 15, 2008, 03:01:43 PM
Lala's will do! I'm still stuck on 'walked' and the 'real' key and then 'Dirty hand is the link'. LOL...don't think I've got past 'across the pond'.
Not having much luck searching on the judges...keep getting an error 401 bad request...associated with a virus or spyware ... :shock: Better call the Geek Squad!

Thanks 2NJ.....another coincidence!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 15, 2008, 03:20:46 PM
Lala's:

Walked with the fallen elder=was released with......remember, PVDS had one or two cards up his sleeve......will one of the cards sing?
-----------------------------------------------
Jack:

Precisely my point-PVDS was NEVER a judge......or......was he (as Shango infers)? If so, when? And, why???? And what song did he sing? The Babylonians knew the girl?


"Why did the girl owe money?"



-------------------------
"real key" = a real key.....to the "poison house-where children of the elders meet the Arawak Nation (Aruban Gov't)......He is the link! (between the gardeners and the Gov't)




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on January 15, 2008, 03:43:36 PM
Lala's:

Walked with the fallen elder=was released with......remember, PVDS had one or two cards up his sleeve......will one of the cards sing?
-----------------------------------------------
Jack:

Precisely my point-PVDS was NEVER a judge......or......was he (as Shango infers)? If so, when? And, why???? And what song did he sing? The Babylonians knew the girl?


"Why did the girl owe money?"



-------------------------
"real key" = a real key.....to the "poison house-where children of the elders meet the Arawak Nation (Aruban Gov't)......He is the link! (between the gardeners and the Gov't)




Paulus walked with Steve Croes?

"Why did the girl owe money?"  I'm thinking you are pointing to p.4 of that pimp case &  explanation of pimp organization....someone had sights on her, claimed her and then she ended up with someone else....that document referenced payment. ???

real key is still a puzzle, though.....

(puzzle =  :-? )


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 15, 2008, 03:49:29 PM
apparently he did have a second card up his sleeve......but the Arawaks would not use it-no wampum many moons


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 15, 2008, 04:05:07 PM
2NJ:

sounds like "the path to the maze"....did you find the right path?

"but it was NOT A GAME"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 15, 2008, 04:07:33 PM
Lala's:

Walked with the fallen elder=was released with......remember, PVDS had one or two cards up his sleeve......will one of the cards sing?
-----------------------------------------------
Jack:

Precisely my point-PVDS was NEVER a judge......or......was he (as Shango infers)? If so, when? And, why???? And what song did he sing? The Babylonians knew the girl?


"Why did the girl owe money?"



-------------------------
"real key" = a real key.....to the "poison house-where children of the elders meet the Arawak Nation (Aruban Gov't)......He is the link! (between the gardeners and the Gov't)




Steve Croes was one  of the singing cards.  Simian said he was singing.  So is Steve Croes Dirty Hand?  He is not in ALE...he did, however, have the ability to walk in all circles.  He was the DJ that played the parties.  I think he was paid to provide that alibi for Joran and the Kalpoes.  I have long suspected he was in this way deeper than it looked.  He wasn't the only group that had access to these parties.  What about all the people that worked at the casinos?  There have been many dirty hands.

Natalee did not owe any money.  I know, I know.  Let me say this...I don't think she owed any money to anyone. What caused the gamblers to think she owed money.  Was it a mistake and another girl was to be the target?  I am rambling, I think. This is me today....(http://bestsmileys.com/frustrated/4.gif)  Stop laughing.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 15, 2008, 04:08:41 PM
his song wasn't on the bill......the babylonian card remained hidden



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 15, 2008, 04:09:43 PM
maze is difficult for supposed guilty-EVEN IF INOCENT


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 15, 2008, 04:39:28 PM
While perusing the FP I found a few posts that made me go hmmmmm....these two posters are always thinking in the right direction...bringing them over here because I heard Shango calling in  them.

10061906 on January 14th, 2008 5:55 pm

Accordingly; Dr Hodges graphically describes how Natalee was victimized, raped and died from choking. Earlier in an interview with Greta, Joran was asked if sex was on his mind when he was with Natalee. He said that was his first intention. She never followed with what would be your second intention. We will never know.
If that was his first intention, what would they have done when they were finished with Natalee had she survived this brutal assault? She would have had severe body trauma and a possible head wound. She would have been naked, bruised and bleeding. If they left her alive on the beach; then she could identify her assailants.
Natalee had to die and in my book that would be premeditated murder. The whole scenario was planned by rehearsing with other tourist to play out what was needed for the final play of the game. Paulus made sure there was no body for no case.

My question is how did they know before hand that they would get away with kidnapping, rape and murder? Was someone betting on this game, betting on the outcome? Betting on a cover up?

My only objection to Dr. Hodges’ description would be the change of vehicles. The back of a subcompact I don’t believe is big enough to do what they did to Natalee. A mattress on the back of a pick up truck would prove more spacious. There was a bloody mattress that had to be disposed of along with foam, tape, glasses, bottle of liquid, leather belt and VCB sport shirt.


# Richard on January 15th, 2008 12:21 am

Some people also opine that when Deepak stopped the car, just after Natalee had gotten in, at a bar down the street and rushed in, he did so because of physical needs.

Does this make sense? We know that they stopped at the bar, because Natalee’s cousin was watching.

Deepak ran in, and came out a few minutes later.

This is the bar of which the bartender later was found dead in the tourist cave in Aruba, minus his arms and legs. (Some sources say other appendages, exclusive to a man, were also missing.) And his body had been burned.

Of course, Aruba’s finest said he died of a cocaine overdose.

But getting back to Deepak … methinks he ran into the bar not for physical reasons, but rather to give a signal. The question is: to whom?
# Richard on January 15th, 2008 12:23 am

10061096, remember too that Paulus said he picked up Joran at 4 am. Then, somehow, the time was changed to 11 pm. Aruba’s finest never picked up on that, but Beth did.


Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:24 pm
The boy is no Ajax. He is too afraid of the consequences. He doesn’t want to be made a cafone.
The third act needs to be played and the cowboys will be heroes.
This is all a “lugubrious game” to them. They were all at the party and all of them are turning their heads. One of them needs to be pinched.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sirensong on January 16, 2008, 01:37:43 AM
Wow, Lala's!  I just read those on the front page also.  It did catch my attention, sounded different.  I reread the one from 10061906, and then just left it.  It does sound like Shango (only modern, updated!) and Simian.  I didn't know Pitbull was the one working in that bar that night.  Is this true?  Sure does sound like the conclusion to the game.  Thanks for pointing that out.  Very interesting......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 16, 2008, 03:34:31 PM
Not Shango/Simian but an interresting post from back in April 2006 on the front page of SM (the forum was down at the time):


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Loesge1.jpg)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 16, 2008, 03:38:08 PM
in above linked, connect the dots=follow the music

to the house (of gold bricks) with the path (but not of gold) to the maze


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: ala_gunslinger on January 16, 2008, 05:43:06 PM
Not Shango/Simian but an interresting post from back in April 2006 on the front page of SM (the forum was down at the time):


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Loesge1.jpg)


I remember the conversation.  It was the day after my birthday!  btw, I WAS Gunslinger back then.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 16, 2008, 06:10:50 PM
and loesge must have been.................?????????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on January 16, 2008, 06:36:34 PM
and loesge must have been.................?????????

Not sure, but I found this and oddly, the webpage has a poster that mentions White Houses   :-?. (yes, I know it's spelled differently)  :scratch: :gaah:

http://www.loesje.nl/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 16, 2008, 07:20:17 PM
Lol...I went looking too...wonder if this is the same one from riehl world

Hoi Joran, hou je maar een beetje gedeisd jongen. Lijkt me wel zo verstandig. De mazzel.
Posted by: Loesje | Wednesday, September 28, 2005 at 07:29 PM


What do you want to know?
Posted by: Loesje | Wednesday, September 28, 2005 at 08:25 PM


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 16, 2008, 07:30:05 PM
Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:05 pm
Dutch the west coast is busy…however, that road between the bushes is very hidden. Have taken girls there myself, but in cars. If you are on foot it would be so easy to hide in the mangroves. The fishermen’s huts. There are no streetlights there.

How come the “Black Team” was not aware is beyond me. They are all over in that area. At least they used to be.  Were they there all the time?  Is this a hint?

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:12 pm
The Black Team is a special force in Aruba that patrols amongst others beaches. Fully armed to the teeth, in black, with black hoods, with black SUV’s and ATV’s.
  Did Simian know they were there that night? Could the story of the SG really be for the benefit of covering up the truth about the Black Team?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 16, 2008, 07:45:25 PM


# Checkme on June 25th, 2005 6:53 pm

fluids were found in the karpoe’s honda
# edie on June 25th, 2005 6:53 pm

There is no new evedence today is there?
# Checkme on June 25th, 2005 6:55 pm

1. Karpoes car
2. vdS Jeep
3. vdS family car
# Simian on June 25th, 2005 6:57 pm

The phone call made in the small hours.


The more I read this stuff the crazier I get. LOL  Checkme was in Aruba...maybe worked with ALE...knew about the fluids in the car.  If you read some posts before this...the posters are surprised that Checkme verifies the fluid story.  Then the cars come up and Simian tells them there are 3 vehicles and then this is where it ends with Simian hinting that there was a phone call made in the early morning hours. 

Could this be the call to Steve Croes and not a call made to Paulus as some have thought?  If Joran was in the car with Deepak, Satish and Natalee...why did they impound the Sloots cars?  I have often thought about that.  Unless ALE knew that one or more of the Sloot cars was used at some time that night concerning Natalee, why would you impound them????? 

Here is the rest....take note of Checkme response...

# edie on June 25th, 2005 6:58 pm

Wow, I did not realize it was in 3 cars. Does anyone know who gave that psychic reading?
# Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:00 pm

The boy is biting his tongue. It is all chewed up, bloody and sore.
# Checkme on June 25th, 2005 7:14 pm

And then the blue van…



The next comment from our mystery men is by Simian..

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:28 pm

The father is trapped in a legal check mate.

The boy is mutilating his own tongue. He doesn’t want to let the old man down.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 16, 2008, 07:51:50 PM
Just a little more and then I will stop...this is the rest of the conversation from the above posts....note the important stuff....another hmmmmm moment.

Peter on June 25th, 2005 7:28 pm

So, what kind of ‘body fluids’? Blood?

# I-Yell-Chris-In-Hallways on June 25th, 2005 7:29 pm

My heavyset wife, Ingrid, she wantto visit Mt brooke and see what it look like. To honor Natalee. I say natalee not yeat dead. Wait to see what hapen to her

# edie on June 25th, 2005 7:29 pm

Someone said her body fluids, but I think they have said it was not blood


# kristin on June 25th, 2005 7:29 pm

ashley79
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 35
Birmingham, AL Posted on: 1:37 pm, May 31, 2005 Report inappropriate post

Just wanted to warn everyone:
My best friend and her husband chaperoned a senior trip of 160 kids down to Aruba, and she returned last night. Her husband had to stay b/c they think that one of the girls was kidnapped, and is possibly in Venezuela now. Her parents flew down, and the State Dept., DEA and several other groups are involved now. She left with a guy from Carlos and Charlie’s, and the cops found out that he is a local drug dealer. Just wanted to let everyone know to please stay safe. If anyone in Aruba has any info., please let me know. I should know more later today. Just please say a prayer.


# kristin on June 25th, 2005 7:31 pm

now this girl ashley 79 has not been answering anyone’s comments and everyone is trying to get a hold of her. she was asked not to talk to anyone by the feds.


# edie on June 25th, 2005 7:31 pm

I have read that post before possibly on here. I don’t remember.


# Peter on June 25th, 2005 7:32 pm

Then, if it wasn’t blood then what was it?

And was it confirmed that the ‘body fluid’ is Natalee’s?



# KeepHopeAlive on June 25th, 2005 7:32 pm

What did Ashley 79 say before she was told not to say anything more?


# edie on June 25th, 2005 7:33 pm

I don’t know…
It could be vaginal fluid. I do not know if that is even factual


# Peter on June 25th, 2005 7:34 pm

That would mean she was in the car, AND co-operative. We already know she was in the car. Doesn’t really help much, or am I missing something??


# scaredshitless on June 25th, 2005 7:35 pm

Kristin, that is certainly SHOCKING news and maybe reason for Natalee’s mother’s hope that she’s alive


# Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:36 pm

In the other car.



 I have asked this before, I think...maybe in my head....WHAT OTHER CAR???


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 16, 2008, 08:11:08 PM
I know I promised to stop...but this is the answer to a question...see what I mean about reading in context?  Simian hangs in there to tell what he knows...that there was a switch in the cars...Shango....bifrons? 

edie on June 25th, 2005 7:39 pm

I have heard that also… But why would any idiot transfer a body into 3 different vehichles


# scaredshitless on June 25th, 2005 7:40 pm

I don’t think those 3 stooges would have time to transport a body in 3 vehicles (my apologies to Moe, Larry and Curly)


# edie on June 25th, 2005 7:40 pm

I would think he would be pretty worried about getting caught.


# Peter on June 25th, 2005 7:41 pm

If there was that MUCH body fluid due to expiration, then that would be cause to criminally charge these clowns, I would think. But who knows in Aruba.


# Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:41 pm

Kalpoes went home. Joran stayed behind. Somebody had to come get him.



# The Robster on June 25th, 2005 7:42 pm

Sadly I believe Natalee’s body was disposed of and will never be found except by a stroke of good luck. There never will be a “corpus delecti” and all the murderer(s) or accessory(ies) has to do is not break, as they have up to now. They’ll never be convicted unless we have either a confession or an eyewitness. Someone has to make him/them crack or this will forever remain a mystery. Actually the white slave theory would be wishful thinking. Highly unlikely she is still alive!

Rob


# kristin on June 25th, 2005 7:42 pm

dad came to get him right simian, and they had natalee’s body with them?
[/b]


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 16, 2008, 08:14:02 PM
Lala's:

With the 'Black Team' reference, I believe Simian may have been revealing who the two guards are.......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 16, 2008, 08:49:15 PM
his lordship is there to preserve babylon, not the elder:
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/02/25/michael-posner-upset-over-excelsior-casino-security-tapes-to-abc/




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 16, 2008, 08:50:15 PM
Lala's:

With the 'Black Team' reference, I believe Simian may have been revealing who the two guards are.......

Do you mean he is talking about MJ and AJ or other guards?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 16, 2008, 08:51:53 PM
his lordship is there to preserve babylon, not the elder:
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/02/25/michael-posner-upset-over-excelsior-casino-security-tapes-to-abc/




His Lordship=Posner???


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 17, 2008, 11:19:57 AM
his lordship is there to preserve babylon, not the elder:
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/02/25/michael-posner-upset-over-excelsior-casino-security-tapes-to-abc/




His Lordship=Posner???


I have always thought Posner was involved in some way and there are rumors that Natalee met him earlier in the week. He was reportedly not on Aruba on the 29th., but then whose lies are we going to believe.

COLUMBO'S idea of the Wyndham as the 46th. has thrown a spanner in the works for me on this.

quote Lala's:

Guido helped to single them out by causing them to lose money and then Joran enters to save the day.  Trust is gained and then BAM! The spider catches the fly...entangled in a web waiting to be devoured.  A system that worked well most of the time. May have worked this time, but "something bad happened" along the way.

 

No wonder Guido took off in a hurry!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 17, 2008, 11:33:43 AM
Still in search of my 'blue eyed dutch boy' who ran off to Holland 2 days after Natalee disappeared...which wasn't Guido as he didn't leave until at least the 7th.

dialogue from final LCD thread on August 11, 2007, 07:07:02 PM

How did Guido get into this picture, charged as suspected as being accomplice to among other things heavy battery, "Grievous Bodily Harm". What time did Guido leave work that late night?

Anybody think that Guido was questioned in the first week of June 05 because of scratch/other witnesses, unrelated to Joran...initially?

I've a question. Did Jossy say or write that the scratches were on GvC not Guido?

He was detained last Wednesday. He was considered a witness in June, 2005. Since February of this year, he is now a suspect. Prosecutor in Aruba want him very quickly. Main evidence against him is witness made statements against him. He claims that he is innocent and never met Natalee last June.

Jossy says he will have to come back to Aruba and the case will go forward in court. Guido Wever is his name. He did not have scratches or bruises on him last June. He was interrogated last June. Good friend of Joran. Played Tennis with him and gambles with Joran. Jossy believes Guido is in bigger trouble than GVC ever was. GVC never knew Joran.

Also, according to Jossy Mansur of Diario in Aruba Guido Weaver is not the individual that was arrested the other day with the scratches on his face. Guido Weaver is another detained individual. The identity of the individual who was arrested with the scratches has yet to be identified.

Another interesting post....

Posted by: newswatcher | Oct 26, 2005 2:30:14 AM
What A List!
you can take Lorenzo's Cig Boat off as he has None.;^)
everyone @ his place was questioned about"the Night". his House Ripped up! poor guy.on a "TIP" from a Blog!!
He Is so unhappy Beth is saying Paul Vds is his Dad.. He loved his real DAD,and he is dead(2001)
He and his Mom are Ready to Have a Lawyer try to stop HER!
but who can Stop Beth's BS.
It's Crazy to hurt him and Drag him in de Mud.
He has Nothing to do with this case.
yes, he is not your average Guy..
so WHAT?
He has No police record.
He never met Joran or the K-boys.
He was Born in Holland 27 years ago.
Leave MY Lorenzo Alone!!!
Posted by: Key West | Wednesday, November 23, 2005 at 07:07 PM
I know when the truth comes out...it will bite everybody right in their a$$...

And another.....
Posted by: Arubaanse | Tuesday, February 07, 2006 at 05:35 PM

I know when the truth comes out...it will bite everybody right in their a$$...


And a little trivia...

Per Amigoe.com, the attorney whose office was searched is Mohamed Emerencia Duyneveld, and he was not detained. (It was “one of ten” locations searched. ...


This was in connection to the Luis Mansur arrest a few months back....Freddy's lawyer's name is Dianne Emerencia....another coincidence....


Where the heck is Freddy anyway?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 17, 2008, 02:15:11 PM
aahhhhh! I remember Key West well.  ::MonkeyRoll::



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on January 17, 2008, 03:36:33 PM
aahhhhh! I remember Key West well.  ::MonkeyRoll::



That's definitely not the 'real key' COLOMBO was talking about. ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 17, 2008, 04:43:05 PM
aahhhhh! I remember Key West well.  ::MonkeyRoll::



That's definitely not the 'real key' COLOMBO was talking about. ::MonkeyEek::

You remember her too.   LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 17, 2008, 05:56:40 PM
Mum

Notice the date of this post...days before the  known questioning of LVR. Notice the word "again". 

americaninaruba

RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS #9
« Reply #831 on: June 18, 2005, 06:42:30 PM »
   
Quote from: "sb"
Quote from: "arubagirl"
sb, with the entrance of van Rijn into the picture, people are starting to get a bit scared. He has a very scary reputation, don't know if it's deserved or not.


Arubagirl do you speak Papiamento and are these translations ACCURATE?

Sorry for my ignorance but I have read like 20,000 posts this week.


sorry mio no tabta ki ann....ken ta van rijn?? mi no a tende esey



arubagirl

RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS #9
« Reply #843 on: June 18, 2005, 06:45:18 PM »
   
aia, van Rijn is the son of the late owner of the Volkswagen dealership. He is very close to van der Sloot, and he has been taken in for questioning.



hope

RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS #9
« Reply #848 on: June 18, 2005, 06:46:32 PM »
   
Quote from: "arubagirl"
aia, van Rijn is the son of the late owner of the Volkswagen dealership. He is very close to van der Sloot, and he has been taken in for questioning.


Arubagirl-  Can you give us a little background on this guy-- without putting yourself out there



americaninaruba

RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS #9
« Reply #859 on: June 18, 2005, 06:49:43 PM »
   
Quote from: "arubagirl"
aia, van Rijn is the son of the late owner of the Volkswagen dealership. He is very close to van der Sloot, and he has been taken in for questioning.


the took him again??!!! IM sorry I know who he is but I was lost..I didnt know they have him again....I undrrstood they interrogated him & released him later......wow ok I know who this guy is if you check my posts I "described" him!



arubagirl

RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS #9
« Reply #861 on: June 18, 2005, 06:50:03 PM »
   
This is all hearsay, so my apologies if it's not true:

van Rijn is 23, going on 24. He's very close to van der Sloot, and his father hanged himself after a life filled with drugs. I've HEARD that the son also does drugs, don't know it. Have also HEARD that he walks armed, but don't know for sure.

I've HEARD he lives at Jaraweg, but before he lived on the Savaneta main road.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 17, 2008, 09:01:34 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22696641/

http://ktla.trb.com/news/ktla-missingocwoman,0,7156030.story?coll=ktla-news-2


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 17, 2008, 09:06:24 PM
Has Babylon's name changed in Aruba?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 17, 2008, 10:47:54 PM
Has Babylon's name changed in Aruba?



Are you asking if the casino has been renamed? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 17, 2008, 11:10:34 PM


http://www.aruba-travelguide.com/hotels/exclusive.html

It seems there have been some changes...

The Allegro is now the Occidental Grand and the Wyndham is now the Westin Aruba Resort.

Hmmmm....did I just understand Colombo?  :shock:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 17, 2008, 11:19:15 PM
sorry Lala's:

Should have posted my last two together......check the linked articles.......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 17, 2008, 11:20:02 PM
http://ktla.trb.com/news/ktla-missingocwoman,0,7156030.story?coll=ktla-news-2


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 17, 2008, 11:21:59 PM
 :shock:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 17, 2008, 11:27:50 PM
DirtyHand is the key and may leave soon to avoid attention from the cowboys and the fort


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 17, 2008, 11:29:14 PM
Well darn it!  I thought for a minute I actually knew what you were talking about.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 17, 2008, 11:34:26 PM
If you work at McDonald's, and then go off to college in another part of the country, could you simply work at another McDonald's near the school?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 17, 2008, 11:36:43 PM
If you work at McDonald's, and then go off to college in another part of the country, could you simply work at another McDonald's near the school?


Yes.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 18, 2008, 05:39:35 AM

COLUMBO.......Are you talking about Jorge?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 18, 2008, 05:52:57 AM

Or Rob Smith?....or did I follow the wrong path too?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 18, 2008, 10:17:52 AM
the house with the path, but not of gold.........on other beaches:
http://ktla.trb.com/news/ktla-missingocwoman,0,7156030.story?coll=ktla-news-2


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: yapperz1 on January 18, 2008, 10:30:09 AM
I may be way off base here but reading Colombo's posts, Judge Witt came to mind. He technically moved away from his post as a judge in Aruba & has gone to what now includes St Maarten.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 18, 2008, 10:47:01 AM
If the door to Eden is to be opened with that key, it will be tomorrow
or forever remained closed

Some windows overlooking Babylon have been opened
The cowboys need to find the right path

DirtyHand is not an Arawak

DirtyHand is the key and may leave soon to avoid attention from the cowboys and the fort

DirtyHand and the Lions must see the light of Arawak Day, or forever walk in plentiful fields.

A new key must be found to open unknown doors.

Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.
But not to satiate desire.

He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens to the lions den

He holds the key!

He holds the real key

The DirtyHand holds the key.

Break ye the hand and the hidden comes to light.

DirtyHand holds the key to the secrets of the SlanderFoot Clan

Babylon holds the answers




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 18, 2008, 11:00:53 AM
I may be way off base here but reading Colombo's posts, Judge Witt came to mind. He technically moved away from his post as a judge in Aruba & has gone to what now includes St Maarten.

Hi Yapperz....You may be right. I think Witt has a place in here somewhere. Yesterday I was thinking that the road that was not paved was indeed the beach.

Agree with Lala's here...COLUMBO's posts are confusing....probably clear as day to him. :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 18, 2008, 11:14:52 AM
while of gold bricks, the road is not paved.......unless you win......one prize @ Casablanca was a car Casablanca


by any other name, Babylon is stil Babylon:
http://ktla.trb.com/news/ktla-missingocwoman,0,7156030.story?coll=ktla-news-2




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on January 18, 2008, 11:20:39 AM
Lala's:

Walked with the fallen elder=was released with......remember, PVDS had one or two cards up his sleeve......will one of the cards sing?
-----------------------------------------------
Jack:

Precisely my point-PVDS was NEVER a judge......or......was he (as Shango infers)? If so, when? And, why???? And what song did he sing? The Babylonians knew the girl?


"Why did the girl owe money?"



-------------------------
"real key" = a real key.....to the "poison house-where children of the elders meet the Arawak Nation (Aruban Gov't)......He is the link! (between the gardeners and the Gov't)




The Lions Club paintings seem to be trying to tell a story.  Aruba display, included Vanderstratten paintings.  Copy and inspect them.  There is one painting of a tree like painting with roots.  In the middle of the tree is a picture of Palus (very small) painted in with an incubus like appendage.  The rest of the paintings can be enhanced in spots to reveal a story about this case.  Quite interesting.       jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: dennisintn on January 18, 2008, 11:21:33 AM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22696641/

http://ktla.trb.com/news/ktla-missingocwoman,0,7156030.story?coll=ktla-news-2

here is a good example of something i've noticed about all the news that comes from any of the caribbean islands, one of these articles says the lady has been coming to the island for l0 years, and the other one says it's been 20 years.  a really small thing actually in itself, but any two reporters are going to get different answers to almost any question.  if you find 2 articles that state exactly the same "facts", you can count on them both having been copied verbatim from someone else's article.  really hard to put much faith in what you're reading.
dennisintn


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 18, 2008, 11:36:18 AM
jackb....do you have a link or a clue as to where I could find these? TIA

dennisintn....I agree...is it by design or are they just not sticklers for the facts? One thing I have noticed is not using someone's proper name and also the spelling of names. Makes it really hard to do any research!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 18, 2008, 01:12:55 PM

Found this at Natalee's Freebird's:

The realm council of ministers has agreed on proposal of minister (Johan) Remkes of internal matter and kingdom relations with a pair of appointments. The lord  Mr. G.E.M. Polkamp (52) are proposed for appointment to member of the common Court of Justice of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba. At present Mr Polkamp deputy member of the court is. The appointment discusses 1 January 2003. the lord Mr. P.A.P.J. of of the ditch (Paulus Van Der Sloot) (50) is proposed for appointment to deputy member of the common Court of Justice of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba. The lord of of the ditch is now operative as a principal private secretary at the Procurator-General of Aruba. The appointment discusses 1 January 2003 for a period of three years.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 18, 2008, 01:18:17 PM
Lala's....re your post about Lorenzo being questioned/detained again.....who else do you think was detained and when that we don't officially know about? TIA

Don't think I'll ever get back to page 38....need more tango time!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 18, 2008, 02:47:15 PM
"lord:"
http://www.mafia-lords.com/mafia/signup.php


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 18, 2008, 02:53:10 PM
"lord:"
http://www.mafia-lords.com/mafia/signup.php


LOL....wrong path again?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 18, 2008, 03:06:12 PM
see 6:00....."preserve Babylon:"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2tNAUUh0Dw


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on January 18, 2008, 03:37:29 PM
see 6:00....."preserve Babylon:"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2tNAUUh0Dw


following the $.....mafia runs $ making casino = Bablylon, $ skimmed from the take, Babylonians are the players, which are not those who enter to play the games, but those who run them from all walks of life.  The door....mmmmm, only select few are permitted...'key'....

So has my path changed, COLOMBO?   :lol: 

BBL...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 18, 2008, 03:41:24 PM
see 6:00....."preserve Babylon:"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2tNAUUh0Dw


I take it that you think the entire Natalee situation concerning the cover up is to keep the money laundered.  The ability to continue the illegal activities no matter the cost to the average citizen.  Is that not what everyone has been saying all along?  The key, person, persons that have the ability to solve this is the dirty hand that helps, aids, and allows this to continue.  That would insure that illegal arms dealers, drug lords, porn kings and the like can continue to launder their money into the system.  So where are we now?  Still waiting for dirty hand to get a conscience? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 18, 2008, 03:59:39 PM

I happened on Richard Lacle yesterday.... he currently is in a Federal US prison on money laundering which occurred in Trinadad and Tabago. Can't quite figure out why he would only be doing it there since he is Aruban. Maybe he was!  :shock:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 18, 2008, 03:59:52 PM
http://ktla.trb.com/news/ktla-missingocwoman,0,7156030.story?coll=ktla-news-2

DirtyHand is the key and may leave soon to avoid attention from the cowboys and the fort

Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.
But not to satiate desire.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on January 18, 2008, 04:05:13 PM
jackb....do you have a link or a clue as to where I could find these? TIA

dennisintn....I agree...is it by design or are they just not sticklers for the facts? One thing I have noticed is not using someone's proper name and also the spelling of names. Makes it really hard to do any research!


Bonair Insider Photo Gallery Lions Club Fundraiser.
Some may have been sold or taken down. 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 18, 2008, 07:46:47 PM
http://ktla.trb.com/news/ktla-missingocwoman,0,7156030.story?coll=ktla-news-2

DirtyHand is the key and may leave soon to avoid attention from the cowboys and the fort

Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.
But not to satiate desire.



I did not see dirty hand in that link, but then again I am no Shango expert.  Same story...different island.  Dirty Hand has moved to St. Marteen? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 18, 2008, 07:49:51 PM
Evening flyby.............From Natalee's Freebirds

JOSSY MANSUR, EDITOR DIARIO ARUBA
Monday, October 1, 2005

Did the judge who came from Curacao probably plan take the decisions he took, spoiled the case? With all due respect for the position you have taken, have you seen what happened???The case was resolved in phases the same judge planned: first release Paul v.d. Sloot , then he came back to release the Kalpoe brothers and the third phase he executed now when came to set Joran free because Joran expressed his wish to continue his studies. ??I have similarly not made any accusations of any sort against the Kalpoe brothers; what I have repeated is what can be found in the Polis reports where they started pointing the fingers one against the other! It is in these three phases here that Americans see the corruption of our justice system.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 18, 2008, 07:55:01 PM
Evening flyby.............From Natalee's Freebirds

JOSSY MANSUR, EDITOR DIARIO ARUBA
Monday, October 1, 2005

Did the judge who came from Curacao probably plan take the decisions he took, spoiled the case? With all due respect for the position you have taken, have you seen what happened???The case was resolved in phases the same judge planned: first release Paul v.d. Sloot , then he came back to release the Kalpoe brothers and the third phase he executed now when came to set Joran free because Joran expressed his wish to continue his studies. ??I have similarly not made any accusations of any sort against the Kalpoe brothers; what I have repeated is what can be found in the Polis reports where they started pointing the fingers one against the other! It is in these three phases here that Americans see the corruption of our justice system.



Who holds the hammer and block? ...  Who holds the judge? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 18, 2008, 08:25:48 PM
http://ktla.trb.com/news/ktla-missingocwoman,0,7156030.story?coll=ktla-news-2

DirtyHand is the key and may leave soon to avoid attention from the cowboys and the fort

Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.
But not to satiate desire.



I did not see dirty hand in that link, but then again I am no Shango expert.  Same story...different island.  Dirty Hand has moved to St. Marteen? 



http://blogs.usatoday.com/hotelhotsheet/2006/12/new_hotels_on_a.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 18, 2008, 08:41:01 PM
So I wasn't as far off as I thought.  Thanks.  I am beginning to see the connection...this is the way it's done.   From island to island....hotel to hotel.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 19, 2008, 09:50:19 AM
Evening flyby.............From Natalee's Freebirds

JOSSY MANSUR, EDITOR DIARIO ARUBA
Monday, October 1, 2005

Did the judge who came from Curacao probably plan take the decisions he took, spoiled the case? With all due respect for the position you have taken, have you seen what happened???The case was resolved in phases the same judge planned: first release Paul v.d. Sloot , then he came back to release the Kalpoe brothers and the third phase he executed now when came to set Joran free because Joran expressed his wish to continue his studies. ??I have similarly not made any accusations of any sort against the Kalpoe brothers; what I have repeated is what can be found in the Polis reports where they started pointing the fingers one against the other! It is in these three phases here that Americans see the corruption of our justice system.



Who holds the hammer and block? ...  Who holds the judge? 


One thing at a time.....Lala's....I'm not very good at this! Is this the third act.....setting Joran free? Seems everyone in Aruba knew the Kalpoes would be released way before they were. Simian said it, posters posted it. I believe they were waiting for the holiday weekend and hoping for less impact. Noticed in my reading yesterday that David was with J on the Monday....don't know how I missed that! Hmmmmmm!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 19, 2008, 10:48:26 AM
Not Shango/Simian but an interresting post from back in April 2006 on the front page of SM (the forum was down at the time):


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Loesge1.jpg)



Interesting that Loesje is a free speech organization started in Arnhem in 1983... and that was where Joran was in school when this post was made....not that I think he posted it...just another coincidence.....

Could someone please tell me if Shango/Simian mentions 'white house'?

I understand that Casablanca is 'white house' in spanish, but would like to know what has led us to the Casablanca and the Wyndham as opposed to the Holiday Inn and Posner. I guess I am asking why we took this path.......

Thanks jackb....will check it out.....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 19, 2008, 04:28:51 PM
it was#46 on the list


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 19, 2008, 04:55:38 PM
it was#46 on the list

Thanks COLUMBO….but what list? I remember a lot of discussion about the hotels way back, but can’t recall a list or how it was determined that the Wyndham was the 46th.

I also realize that this probably way more info than you’re probably going to give out at any one time, but thanks in advance anyway! :wink:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 19, 2008, 05:21:17 PM
Aruban hotels in alphabetical order......it was posted here


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 19, 2008, 05:44:35 PM
re: loesge-

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The card of babylon was already played
if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation  (gov't)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left
 
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open?
Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths. (sounds as if they do-frequently!)
Tell the Cowboys!
The Arawaks are hiding the path to the Maze for the Babylonians. (& for themselves, too!)

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:11 am
All the Arawaks know the Maze which plays the poison songs

The resolution to find Mary lies with the Arawak Nation

Follow the notes
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation
meet, under cover of delusion.

why don’t the arawaks ambush the lions?
The cowboys don’t know.
DirtyHand knows, but is afraid of the Arawak Nation

Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid Arawak King who wishes to blame the babylonians for the behaviour of lowly minions. (king? in the royal house, maybe?)

The Arawak king has DirtyHands and DirtyFeet. If he is to reign anew, he cannot be soiled more.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 19, 2008, 06:54:34 PM
it was#46 on the list


Shango on June 26th, 2005 9:51 pm

The 46th spirit does not walk the same circle as the elders, this shall be his downfall


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 19, 2008, 07:02:17 PM
there will be 46 sacrifices


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 19, 2008, 07:02:47 PM
MANY spirits watching.......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 19, 2008, 07:04:35 PM
Shango on June 26th, 2005 9:53 pm

The Tribe knows all of the players, even the elders of the inner circle


"Tribe" indicates to me an exclusive group...more so than the elders...maybe Dirty Hand is the leader of the tribe.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 19, 2008, 07:13:52 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:39 pm
Every tribe has bad Indians

DirtyHand is well known

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak
Many pioneers have settled with the tribe


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 19, 2008, 07:14:56 PM
walks in many circles (families?)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 19, 2008, 07:18:30 PM
not a child of Babylon


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on January 19, 2008, 07:29:09 PM
COLOMBO, 

Are you the one who believes Mikey John is DirtyHand? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 19, 2008, 07:40:49 PM
dunno who is DH......are you his friend?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on January 19, 2008, 07:48:06 PM
dunno who is DH......are you his friend?



I dunno who is DH, either & can't claim to be his friend but if we don't know who he is, there's no telling  :lol:.  Just remembered someone mentioned someone in the Code Breaker Thread thought Micky John was HIM....Friend of Monkeys aka FOM claims to be a friend.  I'm just trying to follow your posts and eliminate some questions, is all.  Thank you for the response.  I'll go back to deciphering as best a middle aged woman can.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 19, 2008, 08:09:27 PM
dunno who is DH......are you his friend?



I dunno who is DH, either & can't claim to be his friend but if we don't know who he is, there's no telling  :lol:.  Just remembered someone mentioned someone in the Code Breaker Thread thought Micky John was HIM....Friend of Monkeys aka FOM claims to be a friend.  I'm just trying to follow your posts and eliminate some questions, is all.  Thank you for the response.  I'll go back to deciphering as best a middle aged woman can.  :roll:

You are correct in your thinking as it was stated many months ago by Eleye.  As I recall, Colombo also made that suggestion at one time.  That is why I have repeatedly asked the same question in various forms at one time or another.  I have no problem rehashing those thoughts...there are those that may object, but just as Lorenzo is fair game, so should any other person be also.  MOO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 19, 2008, 08:18:57 PM
I believe we were pointing out some very intriguing aspects of Shango as they related to current events at that time:

i.e. -
Joran: "Those guards will kill you."
Shango: 'arawaks hold the singing card from babylon, there is also a trio' (MJ had been on TV)
The story of the American doctor & wife
-among others

Then there was an avalanche of accusations that he was called a murderer, rapist, etc......then in his defense somebody said "he gave me a ride" or something to that effect -lucky for him I don't think the poster was Joran   :shock:




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 19, 2008, 08:22:16 PM
I believe we were pointing out some very intriguing aspects of Shango as they related to current events at that time:

i.e. -
Joran: "Those guards will kill you."
Shango: 'arawaks hold the singing card from babylon, there is also a trio' (MJ had been on TV)
The story of the American doctor & wife
-among others

Then there was an avalanche of accusations that he was called a murderer, rapist, etc......then in his defense somebody said "he gave me a ride" or something to that effect -lucky for him I don't think the poster was Joran   :shock:




Confused even more now.  Who's defense?  MJ?  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 19, 2008, 08:23:14 PM
yes


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 19, 2008, 08:27:58 PM
Are you saying that MJ claimed that Joran gave him a ride?   Also, I remember when this first came up you and Eleye had some compelling ideas as to this being true....only thing that gives me pause is that I think the security guards were one of the singing cards and therefore can not be Dirty Hand.  Also, as I understand it, Dirty Hand would be in some  kind of governmental capacity... maybe even involved in the casino business and also holding an official position in Aruba.  What do you say?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 19, 2008, 08:33:54 PM
in trying to figure out who DH is,  we found:

Shango:  Why have all forgotten DirtyHand, who has aided son of SlanderFoot?
Simian: In the other car

In defense of MJ, somebody claimed that they had received a ride from him-which I found rather ironic-given the circumstances

as I understand it (for whatever that's worth):

Shango states that he's (DH) not an Arawak (but could be the in-law of one, subject to interp.)




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 19, 2008, 08:35:30 PM
his power is that he could break the alibi....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 19, 2008, 08:39:57 PM
in trying to figure out who DH is,  we found:

Shango:  Why have all forgotten DirtyHand, who has aided son of SlanderFoot?
Simian: In the other car

In defense of MJ, somebody claimed that they had received a ride from him-which I found rather ironic-given the circumstances

as I understand it (for whatever that's worth):

Shango states that he's (DH) not an Arawak (but could be the in-law of one, subject to interp.)




Now this is where I don't understand how you come up with this stuff...how did you come up with this in-law relation?  Where did that come from?  Never heard that one before. To me "not an arawak" means he's not Aruban.  What does it mean to you? 

Who is the someone that received a ride?  Joran?  Kalpoes? Someone else? Where is that one from?  I have missed something here and I don't know what it is.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 19, 2008, 08:41:16 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:39 pm
Every tribe has bad Indians

DirtyHand is well known

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak
Many pioneers have settled with the tribe



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 19, 2008, 08:44:33 PM
the arawaks hold the singing cards, there is also a trio (sounds like a card game, right?)
[those would be the LE]

Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand
[not referencing Blackjack here]


The Arawak Nation (gov't)
The Arawak King (Oduber?)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 19, 2008, 08:53:01 PM
the arawaks hold the singing cards, there is also a trio (sounds like a card game, right?)  Trio would mean Joran and the Kalpoes. Do you think it's others and not them?
[those would be the LE]

Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand
[not referencing Blackjack here] Arawak would be the Arubans or ALE?  I still can't make just one of them fit...I can fit both at different times.  You are much better at focusing on one group than I am.


The Arawak Nation (gov't)  I thought was the Arubans.
The Arawak King (Oduber?)  Prime Minister of Aruba.

Remember there is an Arawak Dirty Hand also.  So there is more than one main Dirty Hand and many other small ones. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 19, 2008, 08:54:46 PM
in trying to figure out who DH is,  we found:

Shango:  Why have all forgotten DirtyHand, who has aided son of SlanderFoot?
Simian: In the other car

In defense of MJ, somebody claimed that they had received a ride from him-which I found rather ironic-given the circumstances

as I understand it (for whatever that's worth):

Shango states that he's (DH) not an Arawak (but could be the in-law of one, subject to interp.)




Now this is where I don't understand how you come up with this stuff...how did you come up with this in-law relation?  Where did that come from?  Never heard that one before. To me "not an arawak" means he's not Aruban.  What does it mean to you? 

Who is the someone that received a ride?  Joran?  Kalpoes? Someone else? Where is that one from?  I have missed something here and I don't know what it is.





Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:41 pm
Kalpoes went home. Joran stayed behind. Somebody had to come get him.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The boy told the Hindus that he didn’t need their help anymore. This was in the small hours.
The confrontation was brutal.  So who heeded his call? Who switched places?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Who took the boy to the party? Who took him home? Therein lies the third act. Look up the Simian’s posts from days ago.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Sam on January 20, 2008, 11:55:08 AM
I got to thinking about some things and remembered this from Arubagirls blog.

This was way back in October of 05. Thought you all might find it interesting. It is about the election.

http://arubagirl.typepad.com/lost_in_smallness/2005/10/there_was_an_el.html



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 20, 2008, 01:19:40 PM
I got to thinking about some things and remembered this from Arubagirls blog.

This was way back in October of 05. Thought you all might find it interesting. It is about the election.

http://arubagirl.typepad.com/lost_in_smallness/2005/10/there_was_an_el.html



Thanks Sam, I have read this before, but forget more than I know most days. Interesting for sure.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 21, 2008, 02:52:21 AM
Klaasend:

Anyone have the complete Riddle in sequence and date order?

I have read it all and I do believe it is not difficult to solve. It is like Dungen and Dragons but with an Aruba/American flavor to it.

To solve it you must have good knowledge of Aruba. (the habits of the young generation, Where do they go on Friday, Saturday or sunday night and after these clubs is closing, where do they go.. There are several places that I know of but only three places if you have a girl  and want to score with it.

I would like to take a shot to this riddle but I need the whole riddle in sequence and not commented on send to my email




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 21, 2008, 09:20:43 AM
I will send you the one that I have....email me...cindoal@yahoo.com.
  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 21, 2008, 09:22:03 AM
OK, I messed up that link...sorry.  Try this one:  cindoal@yahoo.com


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 21, 2008, 09:42:36 AM
OK, I messed up that link...sorry.  Try this one:  cindoal@yahoo.com


LOL ...Lala's...this middle aged woman planned on still working on this through her old age....if Caps solves the riddle....what will I do....sigh

COLUMBO...thanks for answering my question.....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 21, 2008, 11:48:22 AM
OK, I messed up that link...sorry.  Try this one:  cindoal@yahoo.com


LOL ...Lala's...this middle aged woman planned on still working on this through her old age....if Caps solves the riddle....what will I do....sigh

COLUMBO...thanks for answering my question.....

The riddle has been solved...the entire Shango story is based upon the fact that there is a secret society ( or whatever term you choose) that is connected to the drug cartels, mafia lords, and such.  We know there is an underbelly of corruption and mayhem on that island.  We also know that the influential people there have connections to this seedy side of Aruba.  This is not a revelation...it's a known fact.  Shango may be dead by now for trying to talk or maybe he is still living happily ever after. Much speculation....no real answers.

Dirty Hand is the key...yeah right.  So we have such people as Ben King, Jan van der Straaten, Rudy Croes, and Ronny Bernadina as candidates for said title.  We already know this....what good does it do?  Absolutely none!  If we say Dirty Hand is Straaten...so what?  No teepees crash and nothing happens.  If we say that Dirty Hand is Ben King and make all the logical arguments as to it being true...so what?  No one is afraid...it's too late.  You can make the same argument for anyone else thought to be the elusive Dirty Hand.  No one is going to investigate this possibility and do what is necessary to make them talk. We can continue to speculate until our own demise and it will never be solved...the person that can solve it is Dirty Hand himself by telling what he knows and bringing justice in this case.

Shango's entire riddle deflects most of the guilt away from Joran and onto unknown parties.  Persons that have no names or faces....therefore releasing Joran of any responsibility in this crime.  Don't be fooled, Shango did not know where Natalee was when it was all over.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Sam on January 21, 2008, 12:32:36 PM
Lalas, I really liked the last post you made.

Now I know you said you had read the link I sent before now but did you notice this one paragraph. repeated below.

See, if there is one corrupt person on this island, it's Hendrik Croes. The Netherlands is never going to accept Hendrik Croes. The thing is, that Rudy Croes surely must be savvy enough to know this, so I'm wondering if he's forcing a showdown between MEP and the rest of the people who are loyal to MEP because of Betico Croes (founder and revered late leader of MEP). As Nel said: 11 (majority) - 1 (Rudy?) = 0 (no majority)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 21, 2008, 12:53:09 PM
Lalas, I really liked the last post you made.

Now I know you said you had read the link I sent before now but did you notice this one paragraph. repeated below.

See, if there is one corrupt person on this island, it's Hendrik Croes. The Netherlands is never going to accept Hendrik Croes. The thing is, that Rudy Croes surely must be savvy enough to know this, so I'm wondering if he's forcing a showdown between MEP and the rest of the people who are loyal to MEP because of Betico Croes (founder and revered late leader of MEP). As Nel said: 11 (majority) - 1 (Rudy?) = 0 (no majority)

Yes I did indeed.  I knew this before, but as with most things I forget more than I remember.  Thanks for reminding me. Rudy Croes is deep in all this mess and he has been trying to play both sides for a while now.  I think eventually it will catch up to him, much the same way it has caught up with Glenda, Bondia, or whatever she goes by now.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 21, 2008, 01:18:00 PM
Caps Lock....for you. I have more things, but most have been posted or discussed at length in this thread at some time or another.  Anything further I can help you with email me...I have other things you may be interested in too.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=281.0


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 21, 2008, 04:12:05 PM
one straight, unpaved path:

http://ktla.trb.com/news/ktla-missingocwoman,0,7156030.story?coll=ktla-news-2

http://scaredmonkeys.com/category/george-allen-smith-iv/

gambling anyone??????
 :shock:



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 21, 2008, 04:44:03 PM
one straight, unpaved path:

http://ktla.trb.com/news/ktla-missingocwoman,0,7156030.story?coll=ktla-news-2

http://scaredmonkeys.com/category/george-allen-smith-iv/

gambling anyone??????
 :shock:



Yes, yes...the casinos.  Owing money....I know all that.  Tell me who is the 5th suspect.  Tell me who is Dirty Hand? Who is Arawak Dirty Hand? Who provided the alibi?  Tell me who was guilty of killing Natalee?  Tell me what good it is going to do now?  How does this help find Natalee and bring justice?  We are getting nowhere....yes, I am frustrated today....tomorrow I will be calmer.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 21, 2008, 04:51:03 PM
5th.....these are sequential.......first mention of PVDS......


Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:50 pm
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left? (easy if there was no party)

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go (he=5th suspect)
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05.
He had been brought in for questioning that day


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 21, 2008, 05:05:55 PM
Colombo
You are saying that Paulus is the 5th suspect...when did he meet Natalee earlier?  Where was the party?  At his house?  Simian says he was the host.  Who provided his alibi?  I don't disagree with you yet, I just want to eliminate all the others and have Paulus left as the 5th.  There are other characters here that fit this scenario also. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 21, 2008, 06:05:18 PM
Simian was not saying that there a party......this, he says, was the alibi


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 21, 2008, 06:46:05 PM
5th.....these are sequential.......first mention of PVDS......Where is the name Paulus van der Sloot mentioned in this?


Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:50 pm
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left? (easy if there was no party) HOST to me says there WAS a party.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go (he=5th suspect)
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05.
He had been brought in for questioning that day


Still not convinced.  If you read the entire conversation between all the posters in this section you will find that they are not even talking about Paulus at all.  In fact, they are talking about a MB teen to begin with.  Checkme shows up and then Simian.  Both have differing theories.  Checkme is the one everyone believes and Simian is jealous that no one thinks he/she knows anything about the case....that is when Simian begins talking about the 5th suspect.  Once again, in the conversations, the mention of a blue van and LVR comes up...but not Paulus.  I am still uncertain how you can determine this by this one conversation.  I don't discount you are correct however.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 21, 2008, 07:11:38 PM
No mention of PVDS before "5th".....as if he waited until he knew it would be in the news.......



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 21, 2008, 07:16:27 PM
Simian was relaying the legal posture being taken by PVDS (the party)......but also says sometimes friends will cover for each other.......if this is the alibi which could be broken, then I am unconvinced that there was one.....



Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:03 am
1. No body; no crime.
2. A grown woman gone missing.
3. Één getuige is géén getuige. (One witness is no witness).
4. No suspect is allowed to testify against himself.
5. A confession will be thrown out of court if there is no evidence.

ONE OF THE WITNESSES IS NO WITNESS, HE IS A PERPETRATOR

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:06 am
The important “others” are the ones that supported the alibi.
No one has openly said there is no hope. Three cadaver dogs on the way. Sonar equipment to look for a body in as deep as 300 meters of water.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:17 am
Waiting for a call…

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:30 pm
Paulus has been picked up.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:23 pm
The older Van Der Sloot has been taken in again by Aruban Police.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bc73 on January 21, 2008, 07:34:29 PM
Any chance the term "host" refers to the casino? A casino "host" takes care of its good clients,making sure everything is covered for. Just throwing it out there...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 21, 2008, 07:54:09 PM
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:04 pm
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was “there whole time”.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 21, 2008, 07:56:27 PM
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:55 pm
He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:04 pm
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was “there whole time”.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 21, 2008, 07:58:11 PM
Any chance the term "host" refers to the casino? A casino "host" takes care of its good clients,making sure everything is covered for. Just throwing it out there...

hi...bc73...I have considered this especially as he was there 'the whole time'. Posner always came to mind as he said he was in the US on that day, which is why I asked about the 46th.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 21, 2008, 08:02:30 PM
COLUMBO …I believe Freddy was arrested sometime between 6/16 and 6/23. If this was the case then he could very well be the 5th suspect. But if Freddy was detained on June 9th. as recently quoted by Marianne Croes, then whoever was arrested on the 11th would be the 5th. But then again if Lorenzo was arrested really ‘early’ on that would again change everything, as that would make Lorenzo the 1st. and not the 5th.

But then again Paulus was at a birthday party in the Netherlands earlier in the week…and that’s his alibi…so how could he meet Natalee….


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 21, 2008, 08:19:48 PM
Fifth suspect in custody after U.S. teen's disappearance
Thursday, June 23, 2005; Posted: 10:01 p.m. EDT (02:01 GMT)
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/aruba.holloway/index.html


Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:50 pm
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left? (easy if there was no party)

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go (he=5th suspect)
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05.
He had been brought in for questioning that day


Shango says it a bit differently:
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 21, 2008, 08:21:41 PM
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:06 am
The important “others” are the ones that supported the alibi.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 21, 2008, 08:26:42 PM
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:04 pm
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was “there whole time”.


So there is a party involved. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 21, 2008, 08:27:26 PM
need to know what Lucy said......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 21, 2008, 08:28:53 PM
COLUMBO …I believe Freddy was arrested sometime between 6/16 and 6/23. If this was the case then he could very well be the 5th suspect. But if Freddy was detained on June 9th. as recently quoted by Marianne Croes, then whoever was arrested on the 11th would be the 5th. But then again if Lorenzo was arrested really ‘early’ on that would again change everything, as that would make Lorenzo the 1st. and not the 5th.

But then again Paulus was at a birthday party in the Netherlands earlier in the week…and that’s his alibi…so how could he meet Natalee….



OOPS! Back to the drawing board once more.  ::MonkeyRoll::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 21, 2008, 08:28:58 PM
Simian is describing an alibi, not necessarily a party


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 21, 2008, 08:29:39 PM
COLUMBO …I believe Freddy was arrested sometime between 6/16 and 6/23. If this was the case then he could very well be the 5th suspect. But if Freddy was detained on June 9th. as recently quoted by Marianne Croes, then whoever was arrested on the 11th would be the 5th. But then again if Lorenzo was arrested really ‘early’ on that would again change everything, as that would make Lorenzo the 1st. and not the 5th.

But then again Paulus was at a birthday party in the Netherlands earlier in the week…and that’s his alibi…so how could he meet Natalee….



OOPS! Back to the drawing board once more.  ::MonkeyRoll::

tell simian



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 21, 2008, 08:31:19 PM
and CNN.....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 21, 2008, 08:32:12 PM
what is being kept hidden is not a suspect


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 21, 2008, 08:35:44 PM
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:06 am
The important “others” are the ones that supported the alibi.

Now I am lost...LOL...Paulus said he had to go home to his younger sons...they could be considered 'important others', but this does not allow for him being host of a party. Or do you think this was a 'party' that we weren't told about and didn't happen anyway, except to alibi Paulus...wow...now I'm totally confused!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 21, 2008, 08:37:10 PM
need to know what Lucy said......

Hang on... I will find it for you...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 21, 2008, 08:40:01 PM
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:06 am
The important “others” are the ones that supported the alibi.

Now I am lost...LOL...Paulus said he had to go home to his younger sons...they could be considered 'important others', but this does not allow for him being host of a party. Or do you think this was a 'party' that we weren't told about and didn't happen anyway, except to alibi Paulus...wow...now I'm totally confused!




??????? wha-huh????? ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 21, 2008, 08:47:32 PM
#  Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:55 pm

He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.


# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:57 pm

Sunny 71
She may have slept at other classmates room. If they hung around together, came to the hotel, and slept in somebody elses’s room.


# cancon on June 22nd, 2005 5:57 pm

ah wait a minute, wait a minute, having experienced this somewhat myself……

the rumour de jour is that Natalee only slept in her room one night, could it be Natalee did not get along with her specific roomates which would explain why they seemed so clueless last night on Fox, had there been some big blowout so Natalee was bunking with others????


# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 5:57 pm

Lucy, CRS did an excellent recap for us all. Please don’t confuse me anymore with Simian. Just like van Sijn and van Rijn…

One thing I do want to repeat. It is so easy to throw mud at our authorities. Please don’t. We are all doing our best every day to have NH reunited with her family. We are not very good at the media show which is why I am also happy our system is closed while the investigative process is taking place.

I am not part of “the Aruban Authority”. Just a Human Being living in Aruba (duhhh…)

Vanessa, did you ever take a look at the links I posted for you? I send them with my warmest regards.


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:57 pm

Sim - i am going to have to think about this tonight and i will have some questions tomorrow morning.


# cancon on June 22nd, 2005 5:59 pm

or Natalee was having a feud with one or two of the girls and thusly purposely avoiding them, only spending the min time in the room……..


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:59 pm

Checkme, have a good night my friend, hope you have some more details tomorrow!!



# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 6:01 pm

The first guy she met has all the motive. The second guy is scared shitless in a cell.

I have heard from Americans living in Aruba and and they think something completely different.



# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 6:01 pm

Simian

Possible alibis (or alibies) for #5:
Was in jail for DUI of illegal substances
Was filming himself
Was making a delivery
Was in Curaà §ao
Was painting his truck in Savaneta
None of the above


# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 6:03 pm

Take care, CU tmrw. Over and out.


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 6:04 pm

Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was “the whole time”.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 21, 2008, 08:53:09 PM
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:06 am
The important “others” are the ones that supported the alibi.

Now I am lost...LOL...Paulus said he had to go home to his younger sons...they could be considered 'important others', but this does not allow for him being host of a party. Or do you think this was a 'party' that we weren't told about and didn't happen anyway, except to alibi Paulus...wow...now I'm totally confused!

Maybe he went to a party...now how can you host a party and not really have a party?  The 5th suspect was the host of a party...the party goers?  Yes, it doesn't take much to confuse me. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 21, 2008, 08:57:47 PM
This holds more water than the CNN headline?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 21, 2008, 08:59:38 PM
Come to think of it, I thought I heard Beth drop his name on Greta one night, and-if memory serves me....and I may be wrong here......but I thought it made ALE quite upset


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 21, 2008, 09:04:27 PM
Come to think of it, I thought I heard Beth drop his name on Greta one night, and-if memory serves me....and I may be wrong here......but I thought it made ALE quite upset

What holds more water and who?...TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 21, 2008, 09:14:26 PM
Post went poof, so will call it a night...will check in the morning for the answer to COLUMBO'S riddle...Goodnight all...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on January 21, 2008, 09:32:12 PM
COLOMBO,

You posted this link to a cnn article....was it the one you questioned on the previous page after Lala's post thinking about a party, etc.?  Your response asked if her thoughts held more water than the cnn headline....imo

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/aruba.holloway/index.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 21, 2008, 09:39:34 PM
This holds more water than the CNN headline?



What does this mean?  I am simply posting what you had asked for and stating what I think...I am sure you would know more than I would.  You have been at this longer than I have.  I guess, I think...maybe.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 21, 2008, 09:42:58 PM
Looking at anything that might point to anybody else as 5th....."Lucy" exchange hardly conclusive.....does suggest other possibility



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 21, 2008, 09:44:18 PM
anything else?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on January 21, 2008, 11:17:44 PM
anything else?

It's hard to determine when you are trying to get us to find an answer that you've figured out and when you are in the same boat as we are.  Guess we are asking the same question....anything else? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 22, 2008, 12:58:34 AM
I do think now reading from Simian post 180 down that the killer must be a Casino worker that tried to off himself early from work.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 22, 2008, 01:17:37 AM
I do think now reading from Simian post 180 down that the killer must be a Casino worker that tried to off himself early from work.

Please explain...are you talking about Guido?  He is the only casino worker that was a suspect that we know of...I think.  So you are saying that the person that killed Natalee was a casino worker?  hmmmmm. Please post what in Simian's posts that leads you to this conclusion. TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on January 22, 2008, 01:40:59 AM
I do think now reading from Simian post 180 down that the killer must be a Casino worker that tried to off himself early from work.

Please explain...are you talking about Guido?  He is the only casino worker that was a suspect that we know of...I think.  So you are saying that the person that killed Natalee was a casino worker?  hmmmmm. Please post what in Simian's posts that leads you to this conclusion. TIA

Was Guido Joran's boyfriend from earlier in the week?  Guido had scratches on his face.  Did Guido get mad because Joran was with Natalee?  Even if Guido did kill Natalee I believe Joran was there when it happened.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 22, 2008, 04:48:35 AM
Bringing this discussion from August forward as Jossy is quoted as saying that it was not Guido who had the scratches.   ::MonkeyConfused::


dialogue from final LCD thread on August 11, 2007, 07:07:02 PM

How did Guido get into this picture, charged as suspected as being accomplice to among other things heavy battery, "Grievous Bodily Harm". What time did Guido leave work that late night?

Anybody think that Guido was questioned in the first week of June 05 because of scratch/other witnesses, unrelated to Joran...initially?

I've a question. Did Jossy say or write that the scratches were on GvC not Guido?

He was detained last Wednesday. He was considered a witness in June, 2005. Since February of this year, he is now a suspect. Prosecutor in Aruba want him very quickly. Main evidence against him is witness made statements against him. He claims that he is innocent and never met Natalee last June.

Jossy says he will have to come back to Aruba and the case will go forward in court. Guido Wever is his name. He did not have scratches or bruises on him last June. He was interrogated last June. Good friend of Joran. Played Tennis with him and gambles with Joran. Jossy believes Guido is in bigger trouble than GVC ever was. GVC never knew Joran.

Also, according to Jossy Mansur of Diario in Aruba Guido Weaver is not the individual that was arrested the other day with the scratches on his face. Guido Weaver is another detained individual. The identity of the individual who was arrested with the scratches has yet to be identified.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 22, 2008, 06:58:16 AM

Caps….In reference to your Montana apartment….

From Joran’s book
the man from the bus and another unknown white guy with brown hair are watching Natalee give bodyshots. Natalee has spoken to neither of them. Ruth and Natalee talk to an Amsterdam man called "G". He says that he is on Aruba for the summer and has an apartment


I posted this after you logged out on the other thread this morning


Caps...some believe that there was in fact another investigation going on at the time. We have wondered about the fact that something was caught on tape of that night. The FOP agreement that the US has with Aruba states that anything they found could only be used in the arrests of suspects in drug cases. So if anything was seen or heard in Natalee's case it could not be used against anyone.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 22, 2008, 08:20:23 AM
Never noticed that Simians's posts jumped from 168 to 180 before. I will go back and take alook today or tomorrow. If anyone has them, please post. They may have been just snipped on accident.....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 22, 2008, 10:25:17 AM
eyes of god look from afar with great acuity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izArWUVtMC4


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 22, 2008, 10:43:49 AM
Never noticed that Simians's posts jumped from 168 to 180 before. I will go back and take alook today or tomorrow. If anyone has them, please post. They may have been just snipped on accident.....

There are several comments in other sections mostly attributed to the fake Simian or as some would say the doppleganger.  I read some of them last night while searching for another post.

So....has Caps decided who is the 5th suspect?  Better yet...who is Dirty Hand? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 22, 2008, 11:05:14 AM
Never noticed that Simians's posts jumped from 168 to 180 before. I will go back and take alook today or tomorrow. If anyone has them, please post. They may have been just snipped on accident.....

There are several comments in other sections mostly attributed to the fake Simian or as some would say the doppleganger.  I read some of them last night while searching for another post.

So....has Caps decided who is the 5th suspect?  Better yet...who is Dirty Hand? 

Lala's...I think these are real as I have seen them used. I have found the thread - with 800 posts- and 9 of the posts, but my stupid electric keeps going out. Will do a quick check for the last two....Good Morning all!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 22, 2008, 11:16:19 AM
Klaas
Please explain the numbering system used in the Real Simian posts...is this a reference to what post number they were?  If so, my numbers don't coincide with the ones we have...if not, is it just a method of ordering them in a logical way? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 22, 2008, 11:29:14 AM
Still missing two...I went through a couple of earlier threads...will keep looking!

     Missing Simian posts

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 10:34 am
He’s too afraid to confess.

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 10:36 am
The boy was picked up at 23:00 on Sunday at Mickey D’s. Sneaked out later. Was on time for school. Don’t mix things up.

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 10:50 am
He’s afraid of the real killer. He has no way out.

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 10:53 am
http://www.steveyuhas.com/columns/yuhas_20050621.htm

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 10:56 am
The authorities have informed the family that their is no hope of finding her alive.

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 11:03 am
1. No body; no crime.
2. A grown woman gone missing.
3. Éà ©n getuige is gà ©Ãƒ ©n getuige. (One witness is no witness).
4. No suspect is allowed to testify against himself.
5. A confession will be thrown out of court if there is no evidence.

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 11:06 am
The important “others” are the ones that supported the alibi.
No one has openly said there is no hope. Three cadaver dogs on the way. Sonar equipment to look for a body in as deep as 300 meters of water.

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 11:17 am
Waiting for a call…

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 2:30 pm
Paulus has been picked up.

And we have these…

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 2:46 pm
Confirmed. He has been detained.

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 2:52 pm
Oh my God…

   
Simian on June 23rd, 2005 2:53 pm
Has Greta not learned yet that we don’t charge our people until trial???




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on January 22, 2008, 11:31:23 AM
Klaas
Please explain the numbering system used in the Real Simian posts...is this a reference to what post number they were?  If so, my numbers don't coincide with the ones we have...if not, is it just a method of ordering them in a logical way? TIA

The numbering probably means nothing.  I have the ability to search for posts by IP, email addy, nickname, etc. 

When I searched for the Simian posts (the real ones) I believe i searched by email addy as the real Simian always used the same email address.

I would disreguard the numbers.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 22, 2008, 11:35:24 AM
Thank you Klaas...that is what I thought.  Just making sure.  Did you get my email last night?  Have you blocked all my emails?  I have missed another memo...haven't I?  ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 22, 2008, 11:38:03 AM
eyes of god look from afar with great acuity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izArWUVtMC4


Just to make sure I'm on the the correct path...is it the drugs or McDonalds or...?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on January 22, 2008, 11:39:15 AM
Thank you Klaas...that is what I thought.  Just making sure.  Did you get my email last night?  Have you blocked all my emails?  I have missed another memo...haven't I?  ::MonkeyConfused::

Yes I got your email and responded.  I would suspect for some reason your email server is blocking my emails to you  ::MonkeyWink::

I'll try sending my response from another email address.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 22, 2008, 11:48:59 AM
Thank you Klaas...that is what I thought.  Just making sure.  Did you get my email last night?  Have you blocked all my emails?  I have missed another memo...haven't I?  ::MonkeyConfused::

Yes I got your email and responded.  I would suspect for some reason your email server is blocking my emails to you  ::MonkeyWink::

I'll try sending my response from another email address.

Use my other email then....cindoal@yahoo.com.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on January 22, 2008, 11:52:17 AM
I do think now reading from Simian post 180 down that the killer must be a Casino worker that tried to off himself early from work.

Usually when someone refers to "offing" someone it means killing, NOT getting out of work.  ::MonkeyWink:: Then again it appears from your writing that English is likely not your first language....forgive me if I am wrong about this.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 22, 2008, 11:52:56 AM
Found them in the next thread... ::MonkeyDance::

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 2:23 pm
The older Van Der Sloot has been taken in again by Aruban Police.

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 2:27 pm
Can’t confirm that he is detained. He has been taken in again by the authorities.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 22, 2008, 12:09:51 PM
COLUMBO…I know this is not what you are referring to as hidden, but suspects were clearly hidden.

 Ms Croes let it slip that Freddy was detained on the 9th and according to the Discovery Log timeline it appears that sometime after 6/16 and before Paulus was arrested he became a suspect.

I posted about the other likely arrests prior to Paulus’ that were made, to be altered to ‘not connected to the case’ and then ‘didn’t happen. If in fact this was the case then the whole concept of the 5th suspect would be changed.


This is one thing that I think excludes Paulus…he is definitely not a boy or a cool and crazy guy!!!!!!

183.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Simian Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.

June 22nd, 2005 at 5:40 pm
Simian Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.

June 22nd, 2005 at 5:38 pm
Checkme…check this…and please recheck:
Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week.
After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him. This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?
Posted Jun 22, 5:41 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Beth Twitty and the Van der Sloots' Meet” | View Post


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 22, 2008, 12:27:53 PM
Caps Lock
So do you think Guido is the 5th suspect?  You didn't' answer me when I was being facetious...I am curious as to your proof and reasoning on this. TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 22, 2008, 12:28:13 PM
ok....when was Lorenzo taken in....initially.....anyone?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 22, 2008, 12:33:32 PM
Bringing this over from the NAH thread...easier to discuss here.

From CapsLockWizard:


Here is what I think has happen:

From the casino Joran and the Kalpoes went to C&C while the Casino worker (#5) was left working, #5 tried to off him self with an other worker, then leave the casino to go to this Party place. (the house)

#5 call Joran to meet at this party place. At the party place Natalee overdose on #5, Joran Waited outside at the Party Place gate outside and when the gates open, #5 come out and handed the body of Natalee to Joran. The Kalpoes where there since they have follows Joran from C&C and went waithing at the Dutch own Apartment with the Pool near Joran Home for Joran and the girl to return.

Joran drove to the Pool Apartment and it is here that they plan what to do with the body. meanwhile at the the pool they waited for the girl to come Back to life (but she never retain a heartbeat).

The Apartment in question with the pool is just 5 min walk from Jorans his house.

Around the pool they deside to plan what to do and here is where Joran got cought in this web.

Question why does he lied for this person? Who is this Casino Worker? If he asked to get off that night from work, then he imust be a Dealer Worker or a Supervisor, Managers do not have to request off.

After this Joran at this time desided to despose of the body in Montana body of water.

And here is where he commided a crime with the help of the Kalpoes.

This is my enterpretacion from the Simian post.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 22, 2008, 12:37:57 PM
ok....when was Lorenzo taken in....initially.....anyone?

I believe at the very least June 16th, quite possible that it was the 11th and a chance even earlier!!!

Lala's...opinion please!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 22, 2008, 01:43:52 PM
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:50 pm
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:29 pm
I did not say an ex.
Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.

[he clarifies]
June 22nd, 2005 at 5:38 pm
Checkme…check this…and please recheck:

Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape.  Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:28 pm
The father is trapped in a legal check mate.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:31 pm
The father was confronted with evidence. Can’t confirm if it’s from the cars of the house.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:59 pm
The fires burned high and bright. Even Saint John denied he knew. The smoke will clear soon.
The elder can’t deny. The son can’t talk. He is biting off his tongue. His sore and bloody tongue.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:54 pm
…unless the package from The Hague says that he is implicated. The evidence has him in a legal checkmate. He cannot deny.

149.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Kalpoes know nothing. They will remain locked up for lying and obstructing the investigation.
Did I say something about a blue van? I don’t think so.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 22, 2008, 01:49:18 PM
ok....when was Lorenzo taken in....initially.....anyone?

I believe at the very least June 16th, quite possible that it was the 11th and a chance even earlier!!!

Lala's...opinion please!!!

I was going to vote for the 11th...was trying to find something you posted once about it all. My brain is on slow today.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 22, 2008, 01:49:24 PM
his lordship is there to preserve babylon, not the elder:
http://scaredmonkeys.com/index.php?s=michael+posner+security


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 22, 2008, 01:52:01 PM
elder had one, or two cards up his sleeve.....will one of the cards sing?

find DirtyHand


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 22, 2008, 02:02:21 PM
CapsLock
Here a few questions for you, if you wouldn't mind clearing them up for me.  I am very confused over your interpretation.  My questions in red. TIA



Bringing this over from the NAH thread...easier to discuss here.

From CapsLockWizard:


Here is what I think has happen:

From the casino Joran and the Kalpoes went to C&C while the Casino worker (#5) was left working, #5 tried to off him self with an other worker, then leave the casino to go to this Party place. (the house) So you think the term "offed" is referring to getting off from work early?  I seem to remember a rumor that Guido took off from work early  that night.

#5 call Joran to meet at this party place. At the party place Natalee overdose on #5, Joran Waited outside at the Party Place gate outside and when the gates open, #5 come out and handed the body of Natalee to Joran. The Kalpoes where there since they have follows Joran from C&C and went waithing at the Dutch own Apartment with the Pool near Joran Home for Joran and the girl to return. Do you have any idea where this party took place and at who's house it was? Why would Joran take her to a party and not go in himself?  Is he just a patsy for someone else? I am confused here...were the Kalpoes at this house also?  Or do you mean the Kalpoes were waiting at Joran's apartment?  Did Joran drive to this house? How did he get there?  Was he paid to provide Natalee and who paid him? 

Joran drove to the Pool Apartment and it is here that they plan what to do with the body. meanwhile at the the pool they waited for the girl to come Back to life (but she never retain a heartbeat). So is this apartment Freddy's place? Was Freddy making a movie and the Kalpoes and Joran would have viewed it, but Natalee died instead? How did you get that from Simian's posts? Please explain.

The Apartment in question with the pool is just 5 min walk from Jorans his house.

Around the pool they deside to plan what to do and here is where Joran got cought in this web.  Are you saying the Kalpoes were the ones that decided about the HI lie?  Do you think they paid Steve Croes to provide an alibi? 

Question why does he lied for this person? Who is this Casino Worker? If he asked to get off that night from work, then he imust be a Dealer Worker or a Supervisor, Managers do not have to request off.  What does this person have over Joran that would cause him to lie and be caught up in all this mess?  Is this the reason that nothing has ever happened?  The power lies here...with Guido?

After this Joran at this time desided to despose of the body in Montana body of water. So you are saying Natalee's body is in the pond area that contains all the dead dogs and appliances?

And here is where he commided a crime with the help of the Kalpoes.

This is my enterpretacion from the Simian post.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 22, 2008, 02:04:10 PM
his lordship is there to preserve babylon, not the elder:
http://scaredmonkeys.com/index.php?s=michael+posner+security


So his lordship is Posner? And dirty hand is?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 22, 2008, 02:12:57 PM
his lordship is there to preserve babylon, not the elder:
http://scaredmonkeys.com/index.php?s=michael+posner+security


So his lordship is Posner? And dirty hand is?


get out your list......what we need to know is who was brought in just after PVDS, though I am unsure as to which time......and then also "walked with the fallen elder?" List who else was brought in that we know of, and try to tighten the timeframes.......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 22, 2008, 02:19:19 PM
ok....when was Lorenzo taken in....initially.....anyone?

I believe at the very least June 16th, quite possible that it was the 11th and a chance even earlier!!!

Lala's...opinion please!!!

I was going to vote for the 11th...was trying to find something you posted once about it all. My brain is on slow today.


Lala's was that the AP and maybe msnbc reort which they later said was not connected and then retracted? I'm pretty sure that was the 11th. I just saw it this morning going through my posts, but didn't save it and meant to.

I thought Caps mentioned Montana Apartments and I took that to be the name of the apartments, but thinking about it he/she? probably meant the area.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 22, 2008, 02:30:48 PM
Our only problem is that the only thing we have to go on is the Dr. Phil documents.  They are only what was needed for the law suit, so I feel certain they are incomplete as to who was arrested and when.  It's hard to make a definite determination. This is what I can tell you...

Paulus was first questioned on June 14.  I don't think he was detained, just held for questioning. Again, it's fuzzy because I still don't understand the witness/suspect terminology as it relates to Aruban law.

Steve Croes appears to have been detained the next day. Before that...Freddy and Guido had already been questioned. Media reports called Steve the 4th person arrested.

Next in line are the Gottenbos brothers...Koen and Sander. Then Freddy is questioned again on the same day. 

Then they talk to Satish again and once more they talk to Freddy, Steve and then Jaime on June 17th. 

Paulus is questioned/arrested/detained on June 18 and also Steve Croes again. In between this...the ALE arrange a face to face between Satish and both Joran and Steve Croes.  That is interesting and I think Simian mentions this too.

Guido is still in the mix, because ALE talks with a friend of his too.  Finally Paulus is arrested/detained again on June 22.

Paulus is released on June 26 and Steve Croes on June 27.

Does any of this help you in any way?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 22, 2008, 02:34:09 PM
his lordship is there to preserve babylon, not the elder:
http://scaredmonkeys.com/index.php?s=michael+posner+security


So his lordship is Posner? And dirty hand is?


get out your list......what we need to know is who was brought in just after PVDS, though I am unsure as to which time......and then also "walked with the fallen elder?" List who else was brought in that we know of, and try to tighten the timeframes.......

On the 28th after Paulus was released, was Lorenzo, Freddy and the Kalpoe stepdad. That is of course that we know of. Here's the link for the Discovery Log Timeline.
there was a Kalpoe neighbor on the 26th and most everything else was interviews of the Mountain Brook group. I have no clue what the neighbor and stepdad have to with anything, but the timing is weird.

Notice in the associations column from the 23rd, that it appears Freddy is now a suspect. Carmen and Karen are listed as friends of van der Sloot/Arambatzis. Further up, the 16th or 17th, Sander is listed as a brother of Koen. This is odd.

http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/Statements_timeline.htm



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 22, 2008, 02:40:02 PM
Mum
I am thinking you mean Freddy's arrest on the underage filming...I am not sure.  That is what I was looking for...I know you posted about it before, but I can not search in this new format.   I have tried and I don't seem to have the secret decoder ring any longer.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 22, 2008, 02:43:12 PM
OMG!  We are on page 50...what does this mean for Shango?   ::MonkeyShocked:: ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 22, 2008, 03:06:33 PM
Mum
I am thinking you mean Freddy's arrest on the underage filming...I am not sure.  That is what I was looking for...I know you posted about it before, but I can not search in this new format.   I have tried and I don't seem to have the secret decoder ring any longer.


No decoder ring here either...You just reminded me of the one that Jossy said about Freddy being detained early on....Jossy thought it was for supplying Joran a false alibi ::MonkeyConfused::...a false alibi for when....just saw that this morning too LOL...will snag it in the morning. Though I know its in the last 25 or so pages of this thread!!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bc73 on January 22, 2008, 03:57:07 PM
Mum, I know it always has been discussed as far as the casino goes, I personally always feel a crime always shoots back to the beginning, which is the casino...I'm from an area where people goto Aruba to "make easy money" in their card games. These aren't little games, and where there are gambling scenes like that, there are bigger and badder scum, as we know. Feel the answers lie in that casino, really not some reach, JMO.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 22, 2008, 04:01:59 PM
Klaaasend this is the sequence I think that Simian is talking about is this


About Steve Croes:

Here see for your self


183.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Simian Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
June 22nd, 2005 at 5:40 pm
Simian Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
June 22nd, 2005 at 5:38 pm
Checkme ¦check this¦and please recheck:

Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in Casino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the Casino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week.

After a couple of days girl meets another boy  in the same Casino. Goes out with him. This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.

First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.

How can this ever be solved?  --- > here he explain why it can not be solve.
Posted Jun 22, 5:41 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Beth


188.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.
Posted Jun 22, 5:13 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Beth Twitty and the Van der Sloots' Meet” | View Post

189.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.
Posted Jun 22, 5:09 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Beth Twitty and the Van der Sloots' Meet” | View Post

190.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?
Posted Jun 22, 5:03 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Beth Twitty and the Van der Sloots' Meet” | View Post

191.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.
Posted Jun 22, 5:00 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Beth Twitty and the Van der Sloots' Meet” | View Post

192.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.
Posted Jun 22, 4:56 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Beth Twitty and the Van der Sloots' Meet” | View Post

193.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.
Posted Jun 22, 4:50 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Beth Twitty and the Van der Sloots' Meet” | View Post

62.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The alibi needs to be broken. The dogs have pouches on their feet. They are checking the dirty waters in Noord.
The Babylonians know what the girl did earlier in the week. Therein lies the motive. The third act will played soon, but the boy is not Ajax. He is too afraid to pull off such a feat
.

72.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Shock means well. He understands the Babylonians, but they don’t hold the hammer nor the block.
The alibi needs to be broken. The party-go-ers need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes
. (they also know what whent wrong and have seen)The house was dusted. (they cleaned the evedance)
Posted Jun 26, 3:18 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Sunday Morning Update” | View Post

151.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Nobody is a boob. The alibi needs to be destroyed. Daddy knows who was there. He has answers too.
Posted Jun 24, 10:58 AM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Evening Update; Natalee Holloway” | View Post

154.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Who said the alibi played for the Van Der Sloot’s? The 5th suspect is waltzing away.
Posted Jun 24, 10:45 AM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Evening Update; Natalee Holloway” | View Post

155.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The 5th suspect. Does anyone remember what I said?
Posted Jun 24, 10:43 AM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Evening Update; Natalee Holloway” | View Post

156.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Anybody wants a blessing from Saint Alibi?
Posted Jun 24, 10:35 AM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Evening Update; Natalee Holloway” | View Post

157.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Steve Croes is singing. He walk away with murder?

#183 repeats for clarification
183.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Simian Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
June 22nd, 2005 at 5:40 pm
Simian Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
June 22nd, 2005 at 5:38 pm
Checkme ¦check this¦and please recheck:
Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in Casino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the Casino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week.
After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same Casino. Goes out with him. This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?
Posted Jun 22, 5:41 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Beth

185.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The alibi story is the almost the latest.
The latest is that there’s a gap in the time-line for the boys
.
It is true that one of them tried to off himself.  (from work I assume to be with this girl)
Posted Jun 22, 5:26 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Beth Twitty and the Van der Sloots' Meet” | View Post

186.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
This is not my theory. This is for real.
Posted Jun 22, 5:22 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Beth



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 22, 2008, 04:57:03 PM
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….   [not SGC]

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one or two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?

And the Arawaks keep their singing card hidden as well
The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played     [by PVDS]
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 22, 2008, 05:13:50 PM
CapsLock
Are you saying that Steve Croes is the 5th suspect?  Not that big a stretch really...been discussed often as being th 5th person.  What do you say Caps?  Is it Steve?  Did he insert himself in all this because he knew where all the dirty little secrets were buried? (no pun intended)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 22, 2008, 05:18:18 PM
Mum, I know it always has been discussed as far as the casino goes, I personally always feel a crime always shoots back to the beginning, which is the casino...I'm from an area where people goto Aruba to "make easy money" in their card games. These aren't little games, and where there are gambling scenes like that, there are bigger and badder scum, as we know. Feel the answers lie in that casino, really not some reach, JMO.


I am not Mum, so excuse me for jumping  in here to say you are right.  The large amounts of money and the high rollers that are hooked on this stuff willing to pay whatever it takes to be the biggest and best certainly leads you right back to the casinos.  Shango has always maintained this theory.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 22, 2008, 05:19:20 PM
so.....Steve Croes committed a murder, then went to the authorities to insert himself into the case as an alibi?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 22, 2008, 05:23:58 PM
where did Simian say NH spent her nights on Aruba?
where was she seen on video with JVDS (and possibly PVDS)?
where did PVDS tell the NH family that  JVDS was when they arrived at his house?
where in actuality was JVDS when the NH family arrived at the VDS home?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 22, 2008, 05:26:50 PM
This was too funny!

"It is true that one of them tried to off himself.  (from work I assume to be with this girl)"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 22, 2008, 05:41:57 PM
CapsLock
Are you saying that Steve Croes is the 5th suspect?  Not that big a stretch really...been discussed often as being th 5th person.  What do you say Caps?  Is it Steve?  Did he insert himself in all this because he knew where all the dirty little secrets were buried? (no pun intended)

Ok Summary:

They were 12 but 2 got arrested and 10 more to go form this party hosted by #5, At the party they where repeating what she did a week ago with this casino boy. (making a film). everyone in the casino has seen it. The taxi drivers role (2K) was to bring her to this party. This party was at the casablanca. at the party gate the taxi driver (2k) where no allowed in. there was a heated discussion and they left waiting outside. Joran was inside.

Yes it is him.

Read the clues.

The other riddle was rewritten and scambled and the authors given other names to confuse the readers.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 22, 2008, 05:47:00 PM
so.....Steve Croes committed a murder, then went to the authorities to insert himself into the case as an alibi?

No, I don't think so...I was wondering if you were paying attention. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 22, 2008, 05:52:12 PM
where did Simian say NH spent her nights on Aruba?
where was she seen on video with JVDS (and possibly PVDS)?
where did PVDS tell the NH family that  JVDS was when they arrived at his house?
where in actuality was JVDS when the NH family arrived at the VDS home?



The casino....I know this.  Tell me something I don't know.  Please!  :2brickwall:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 22, 2008, 05:54:37 PM
where did Simian say NH spent her nights on Aruba?
where was she seen on video with JVDS (and possibly PVDS)?
where did PVDS tell the NH family that  JVDS was when they arrived at his house?
where in actuality was JVDS when the NH family arrived at the VDS home?



The casino....I know this.  Tell me something I don't know.  Please!  :2brickwall:



one of them tried to off himself......from work


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 22, 2008, 05:56:40 PM
CapsLock
Are you saying that Steve Croes is the 5th suspect?  Not that big a stretch really...been discussed often as being th 5th person.  What do you say Caps?  Is it Steve?  Did he insert himself in all this because he knew where all the dirty little secrets were buried? (no pun intended)

Ok Summary:

They were 12 but 2 got arrested and 10 more to go form this party hosted by #5, At the party they where repeating what she did a week ago with this casino boy. (making a film). everyone in the casino has seen it. The taxi drivers role (2K) was to bring her to this party. This party was at the casablanca. at the party gate the taxi driver (2k) where no allowed in. there was a heated discussion and they left waiting outside. Joran was inside.

Yes it is him.

Read the clues.

The other riddle was rewritten and scambled and the authors given other names to confuse the readers.

Not yet convinced....I need more clarification.  So you are saying that Steve Croes was the person that was hosting a party at the Casablanca that night?  You are also saying that Natale was making films a week ago with this same guy (Steve Croes).  I didn't know Steve Croes worked in the casino.  How did Natalee get the drugs that killed her?  Were they given to her at CnC or after she got in the car with Joran?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 22, 2008, 05:58:09 PM
did sim mention movies?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 22, 2008, 06:10:09 PM
did sim mention movies?

No. Shango did.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 22, 2008, 06:29:09 PM
did sim mention movies?

No. Shango did.


CAPS:
"The other riddle was rewritten and scambled and the authors given other names to confuse the readers."




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 22, 2008, 06:46:08 PM
did sim mention movies?

No. Shango did.


CAPS:
"The other riddle was rewritten and scambled and the authors given other names to confuse the readers."



:2brickwall: :2brickwall:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 22, 2008, 06:50:19 PM
Steve Croes was #4 not #5 suspect.  Check out the RWV link below...some interesting stuff there...Mum are you paying attention? 

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/fourth_man.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on January 22, 2008, 07:02:17 PM
Steve Croes was #4 not #5 suspect.  Check out the RWV link below...some interesting stuff there...Mum are you paying attention? 

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/fourth_man.html

I was just over there and saw that, myself.....in one of Dan's posts the headline referred to PVDS as The Elder mid June....which is a correct term, but my mind was looking for such things.   :2brickwall: :gaah:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 22, 2008, 07:28:39 PM
two cards that were played, and lost? was one kept hidden?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 22, 2008, 07:31:52 PM
This was on the same link.  It was posted by Getagrip...very reliable source IMO



Loranzo, interrogated yesterday, is the son of the businessman who committed suicide.
Steve Croes, the one arrested this morning, is supposedly the son of the high ranking justice official.

Sorry if you cant keep up, Anj ;)

The link that HY provided seems to be the Steve Croes in question, per the Scared Monkeys discussion board. He works for a 'party boat' in Aruba : http://www.arubaadventures.com/tattoo/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 22, 2008, 07:37:15 PM
fifth suspect? or not?

The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 22, 2008, 07:45:47 PM
I found something else interesting concerning timelines done in relation to this case...wish I could copy and paste them...but I know it's too extensive.

http://p073.ezboard.com/TIMELINE/ftheunusualsuspectsfrm7.showMessage?topicID=9.topic


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 22, 2008, 08:18:07 PM
Interesting indeed:
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/fourth_man.html

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians do not like the Babylonian intrusion.
The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….    [judicial feat (fee-uht)????]

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on January 22, 2008, 08:25:19 PM
Interesting indeed:
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/fourth_man.html

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians do not like the Babylonian intrusion.
The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….    [judicial feat (fee-uht)????]

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder


From the link above:

yeah ive heard since a week and a half ago that some " Lorenzo" was involved! A friend told me that a friend of his had seen Natalee with this guy in particular hand in hand!
So to my knowledge,it is Lorenzo another(wealthy) Dutch guy living on the island for many years!
This guy has an reputation of "insanity" a wild life style and being spoiled!
The other guy no idea who he is!
Rmemember, these are recent arrest, by ending of the day or tommorow i should know more!

But i must admit...i'm not slamming Aruba or it's law enforcemt department but this investigation is going no where!!!
The government should give the green light into giving permission to the FBI to take over this case in it's entirity!
My point is the FBI has way more experience into such cases! they deal with them daily!
They have much more knowledge,tactics and sophesticated intruments into helping to solve this case!
The Aruban police on the other hand dont have this experience! doesnt mean their bad,its just prooves Aruba doesnt have much missing persons,murder cases and stressfull situations like this one going on!
By far this is the biggest investigation in the history of Aruba!
It doesn't mean they are not working on giving results! It's just they are not used to such cases!
that's why it would be very handy and helpfull if the Arubian government gives the greenlight for the FBI to help more or take over!
Right now they are just assisting here and there with minor matters,they do not have any jurisdiction into going much further than just assisting and supervising!

Again,this is not slamming the Aruba name!
I'm sure if this were the USA they would have done a lie detector test! right?
such facts do help in these stressfull cases!!
It will determine if these people involve are lying YES OR NO!!!
Everyday it seems the trail is getting colder and colder and the chance of finding Natalee Holloway alive is getting slim!
This is if a crime was commited!

Yet some people start to think that this is a setup by the parents itself! and that she is alive some where,but not on the island!
Again i refer to this,Aruba is 74 square miles and flat as a pancake! With so many people searching on land and in the air,even bloodhounds that have a smell of 50.000 times superior to the human being.
A chopper with special cameras and equipment to detect human remains(if they were buried) and yet absolutly nothing has been found!

To be continued....





Posted by: PietjeZz | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 01:36 PM



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 22, 2008, 08:42:18 PM
Update:

157.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Steve Croes is singing.
Posted Jun 23, 3:17 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Van

Note: The 5th Person was Arrested on June 23, 2005 at 3:01 when Steve Croes start siging. Who is Paul Van Der Sloot..

Look at the time and the date

It was my oversight not to check the arrest dates.

So this tell me that he was a C...dmolser from the get go.  But Like I am saying now we are getting deep into trouble  zone.   "he walks te palace and he is the owner of the Hammer and Brick."  In Other words He is the LAW and like they say the Judge Drop the Hammer on the Brick and case closed.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 22, 2008, 08:52:21 PM
So this tells me that he was a C...dmolester from the get go.  But Like I am saying now we are getting deep into trouble  zone.   

"he walks te palace and he is the owner of the Hammer and Brick." 

In Other words He is the LAW and like they say the "Judge Drops the Hammer on the Brick and case was closed".

Now I understand why no one is willing come forewarth, they do not have the guts to deal with the Judge.
 
 
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 22, 2008, 08:56:45 PM
So this tells me that he was a C...dmolester from the get go.  But Like I am saying now we are getting deep into trouble  zone.   

"he walks te palace and he is the owner of the Hammer and Brick." 

In Other words He is the LAW and like they say the "Judge Drops the Hammer on the Brick and case was closed".

Now I understand why no one is willing come forewarth, they do not have the guts to deal with the Judge.
 
 
 



I think it's hammer and block...but I have been known to be wrong most days.  So  who are you talking about now?  Paulus?  He's is the 5th suspect?  Confused again.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 22, 2008, 09:28:08 PM
Steve Croes was #4 not #5 suspect.  Check out the RWV link below...some interesting stuff there...Mum are you paying attention? 

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/fourth_man.html


Paying attention....LOL....that's the link that has old Steve as an EMT, pilot, Columbian looking guy and who knows what else! Also a link to pics of Croes and Satish apparently, that no longer works.

Will dig up the dirt on Freddy in the morning.

For Lala's....Just heard on Nancy Grace....Who would be the liason person between the FBI and a government in a foreign country....why that would be the Dept. our Ms JA works for...and she was at the house when Joran was released. ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 22, 2008, 09:52:17 PM
A bit about the Law of Aruba

Normaly when an Aruban perp that is not eighteen yet can not have visitation right of the parents till they clear the Investigation.

In the case of Joran, There was a big exeption made where Paul show a peace of the Law where they he can have access to his son.

This peace of law was in the Law Books of the Aruba but was not hidden but was never applied to nobody.

Since he was The Judge and Now The Law, he was granted access to his son.

In this case he was a Dutch Judge and for his son that was Dutch is was applicable. But if he was a minor Aruban boy and not with a father with a Law degree, He would have to sit the whole 10 days in jail.

14.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
If the Picaros took the girl then why haven’t they radioed in? They have an agenda and they always prove their point.
The Babylonians still have the boy and the Hindus pinched. The Hindus and the boy met again yesterday. The boy fell apart. Another patch is woven. There are no Picaros here, only a boy. So do the Babylonians think.

Here Simian is saying about the Theory that she have been kidnapped, and question if she was kidnapped why they have not call. A kidnapper normaly have an Agenda.

A slap in the face did the Babylonians receive yesterday from the ones who own the block and the hammer. The boy can recieve the elder. Ha! Their words will be committed to magnet.
The elder is not a capo in the Palace. The palace servants all think he is a failure, but he sure knows his way around. He did break one gate already.


Here he is saying how Paules have show the Aruba Authorities that he can visit his son.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 22, 2008, 09:59:42 PM
A bit about the Law of Aruba

Normaly when an Aruban perp that is not eighteen yet, can not have visitation right of the parents untill they clear the 10 day of Investigation.

In the case of Joran, There was a big exception made where Paul showed a peace of the Law where  he can have access to his son.

This peace of law was in the Law Books of the Aruba but was hidden and was never applied to nobody.

Since he was The Judge and know The Law, he was granted access to his son.

In this case Paul was a Dutch Judge and for his son that was also Dutch the law of no visitation was not applicable. But if he was a minor Aruban boy and not with a father with a Law degree, He would have to sit the whole 10 days in jail.

14.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
If the Picaros took the girl then why haven’t they radioed in? They have an agenda and they always prove their point.
The Babylonians still have the boy and the Hindus pinched. The Hindus and the boy met again yesterday. The boy fell apart. Another patch is woven. There are no Picaros here, only a boy. So do the Babylonians think.

Here Simian is saying about the Theory that she have been kidnapped, and question if she was kidnapped why they have not call. A kidnapper normaly have an Agenda.

A slap in the face did the Babylonians receive yesterday from the ones who own the block and the hammer. The boy can recieve the elder. Ha! Their words will be committed to magnet.
The elder is not a capo in the Palace. The palace servants all think he is a failure, but he sure knows his way around. He did break one gate already.


Here he is saying how Paules have show the Aruba Authorities that he can visit his son.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 22, 2008, 10:06:47 PM
I thought Paulus was never really a judge.  Are you saying he was a judge and not just a wannabe? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 22, 2008, 10:16:00 PM
I thought Paulus was never really a judge.  Are you saying he was a judge and not just a wannabe? TIA

He was a Judge but in training. it is like an MD Doctor in residency.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 22, 2008, 10:42:18 PM
update:

"might have been targeted by someone who had seen her gambling at the casino before. Police said they have found no sign of foul play, but have not ruled it out."

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/homepage/abox/article_1964173.php


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: memphis on January 22, 2008, 11:48:18 PM
A bit about the Law of Aruba

Normaly when an Aruban perp that is not eighteen yet can not have visitation right of the parents till they clear the Investigation.

In the case of Joran, There was a big exeption made where Paul show a peace of the Law where they he can have access to his son.

This peace of law was in the Law Books of the Aruba but was not hidden but was never applied to nobody.

Since he was The Judge and Now The Law, he was granted access to his son.

In this case he was a Dutch Judge and for his son that was Dutch is was applicable. But if he was a minor Aruban boy and not with a father with a Law degree, He would have to sit the whole 10 days in jail.

14.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
If the Picaros took the girl then why haven’t they radioed in? They have an agenda and they always prove their point.
The Babylonians still have the boy and the Hindus pinched. The Hindus and the boy met again yesterday. The boy fell apart. Another patch is woven. There are no Picaros here, only a boy. So do the Babylonians think.

Here Simian is saying about the Theory that she have been kidnapped, and question if she was kidnapped why they have not call. A kidnapper normaly have an Agenda.

A slap in the face did the Babylonians receive yesterday from the ones who own the block and the hammer. The boy can recieve the elder. Ha! Their words will be committed to magnet.
The elder is not a capo in the Palace. The palace servants all think he is a failure, but he sure knows his way around. He did break one gate already.


Here he is saying how Paules have show the Aruba Authorities that he can visit his son.



Where did this Simian quote come from? I don't remember reading it.
Also, could this be what the "legal checkmate" stuff was about?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 23, 2008, 12:10:27 AM
Colombo:

Yes it is all about this checkmate

I am almost done with simian clues.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 23, 2008, 07:31:55 AM
Columbo....I am sorry that this is so long, but now you will see why I can't decide what date Freddy was arrested....but I do believe he was, and secretly, well before the August arrest. Most of this is from posts I have made, except for the one about Freddy being derained since June 9th.


December 31, 2007, 11:08:03 AM
Tamikosmom……Sorry for the long Post, but I know what a stickler for details you are!
Steve Croes was not questioned until 6/15 and arrested on 6/17. The article I posted yesterday was dated 6/11. (See below in blue)  IMO, I do not believe the arrest of 6/11 pertains to Steve Croes. I have included all the statement dates of both Steve and Freddy, that we know of. IMO, the arrest of 6/11/2005 could pertain to Freddy. 
         ------------------------------------------------------

Snipped from Nancy Grace transcript which aired 6/17/2005

But first, let`s go down to Aruba and CNN correspondent Karl Penhaul. Karl, an incredible development, yet a fourth suspect behind bars tonight. Why?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The fourth suspect that has been arrested has been named as Steven Croes, Steve Croes. Police arrested him around dawn. What the chief police commissioner, Jan Van Der Straaten, told me when I talked to him was that his name had come up during an interrogation of the three young suspects already in custody for around ten days. What we`re also hearing is that this arrest could have been based on some kind of electronic surveillance. Steve Croes is a D.J. on the tattoo party boat. That`s 150-foot three-deck catamaran that sails just off the west coast of Aruba with partygoers on board, usually in the evenings. And he is the D.J. on that ship. But his boss, Marcus Williams (sic), has also told us that he is an experienced seaman, as well, Nancy.

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 15 June 2005 / 16:25
Pages: 3 Writer/Initiator: Luigi Croes
Description: witness statement

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 17 June 2005 / 07:40
Pages: 4 Writer/Initiator. Dennis Jacobs/Luigi Croes
Description: suspect interrogation Responsive to Request 41

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 18 June 2005 / 16:55
Pages: 3 Writer/Initiator: Johny Erasmus
Description: interrogation as a suspect Responsive to Request 41

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 21 June 2005 / 13:00
Pages: 5 Writer/Initiato: Shaniro Kelly / Clyde Burke
Description: interrogation of a suspect

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 29 August 2005 / 9:15
Pages: 6 Writer/Initiator: A.R De Ruiter/ CJM Burgwal
Description: interrogation of a suspect

Name: Steve Gregg Croes
Date: 31 January 2006109:45
Pages: 4 Writer/Initiator. Dennis Jacobs / Rolando Maduro
Description: interrogation of a suspect Responsive to Request 41
         -------------------------------------------------------------


This is snipped from the article I posted yesterday:
Another Arrest Made In Case Of Missing Ala. Teen

POSTED: 9:38 am EDT June 10, 2005
UPDATED: 9:34 am EDT June 11, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba -- Police in Aruba investigating the disappearance of an Alabama teenager made another arrest early Saturday. It comes just hours after police said one of three men recently arrested admitted "something bad had happened" to Natalee Holloway.Police aren't commenting on the latest arrest, which was the sixth since Holloway went missing May 30              ----------------------------------------------------

It appears that the status of Freddy has changed on the entries for Karen and Carmen, IMO, as only suspects are listed this way in this document. IMO this is what Jossy was referring to about the media not being informed about Freddy being arrested early in the investigation.

Name: Freddy Alexander Arambatzis
Date: 12 June 2005 / 11:05
Pages: 5 Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Juan Boezem
Description: witness statement of Joran van der Sloot's neighbor/friend

Name: Freddy Alexander Arambaizis
Date: 13 June 2005 / 17:00
Pages: 5 Writer/Initiator. Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement

Name: Freddy Alexander Arambatzis
Date: 16 June 2005115:30
Pages: 8 Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement

Name: Freddy Zedan
Date:17 Juni 2005
Pages: 6Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs, Eric Soemers
Description: witness statement

Name: Freddy Alexander Zedan Arambatzis
Date:28 June 2005 / 14:25
Pages: 11 Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Kelly & Haydee Nadal
Description: witness statement

Name: Freddy Zedan Arrambatzis
Date: 1 July 2005
Pages: 9 Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Haydee Azucena
Description: witness statement

Name: Freddy Zedan Arrambatzis
Date:20 July 2005
Pages: 4 Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs, Eric Soemers
Description: witness statement

Name: Freddy Alenxander Arambatzis
Date: 10 February 2006/17:15
Pages: 5 Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs /Eric Soemers
Description: interrogation of a suspect Responsive to Request 41

Name: Karen Martina
Date: 23 June 2005113:55
Pages: 6 Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs / Juan Boezem
Description: witness statement by a friend of Van der Sloot and Arrambatzis

Name: Carmen Aurora Jacopucci
Date: 28 June 2005 / 15:55
Pages: 6 Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs /Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement by a fried of Van der Sloot and Araambatzis
    ---------------------------------------------------------------

December 30, 2007, 09:31:05 AM-my post

Found this at the judicial inc site under accomplices and had posted in the Shango/Simian thread. Also reposted the other evening.

In this interview Jossy Mansur confirms Freddie Arambatzis-Zedan is now being held in prison. Mansur explains that he takes sexual pictures of “unsuspecting” girls and then sells it. The girls are apparently aware and okay with the picture taking, however not with the distribution of them. No offense but I think if you allow someone to take a picture of you, especially one that claims to be “Locoman Pimp”, you should be well aware of his intent. Mansur says this guy was held in the beginning of the investigation and obviously the media was not made aware of this. Jossy says he is probably being held because of a false alibi for Joran van der Sloot he initially gave police.
       -------------------------------------------------------------


the link is no longer available.
www.nbc4i.com/news/4593143/detail.html

Another Arrest Made In Case Of Missing Ala. Teen
POSTED: 9:38 am EDT June 10, 2005
UPDATED: 9:34 am EDT June 11, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba -- Police in Aruba investigating the disappearance of an Alabama teenager made another arrest early Saturday. It comes just hours after police said one of three men recently arrested admitted "something bad had happened" to Natalee Holloway.

Police aren't commenting on the latest arrest, which was the sixth since Holloway went missing May 30.

Late Friday, one of three young men who took Holloway to the beach during her class trip to Aruba said "something bad happened" to her, police said.

The three men arrested by Aruban police early Thursday morning had been designated "persons of interest" in the case and were detained soon after Natalee Holloway's disappearance. Police officials questioned the trio, and then released them back to their families.

And more…..

This one from the AP about the same arrest:
By MICHAEL NORTON, Associated Press Writer

ORANJESTAD, Aruba - Police investigating the disappearance of an Alabama honors student in Aruba arrested a man at dawn Saturday, hours after one of three young men already in custody admitted "something bad happened" to the woman after they took her to the beach.

It was unclear if the 6 a.m. arrest was related to the admission. The same team of officers who arrested five others in the case during the past week went to a home just outside Oranjestad, the capital, and came out with a handcuffed man who looked to be in his 20s.

And then I posted:
OK....I just read that the arrest I posted above was NOT related to Natalee!

Next I posted:
Same arrest....now it didn't happen!

by Norman 'Gus' Thomas
Caribbean Net News Senior Regional Correspondent
E-mail: rc@caribbeannetnews.com
Saturday, June 11, 2005ORANJESTAD, Aruba:

Law enforcement officials in Aruba are calling recent reports coming out of the USA in relation to the disappearance of an Alabama teenager as "untrue and misleading." 18-year-old Natalee Holloway vanished May 29 after leaving an Oranjestad nightclub.

According to US reports, police in Aruba arrested a man on Saturday morning, after one of a trio that was previously held reportedly told police "something bad happened to her".

CNN's 2:00 pm report on Saturday stated that a senior police officer had told them that one of the three men arrested had confessed to killing Halloway.

Aruba police told Caribbean Net News Saturday that they have been engaged in an unsuccessful island-wide search for Holloway, who had come to the island with 124 other students from the USA to celebrate their graduation from Mountain Brook High School.

Caribbean Net News contacted CNN Headline News in Atlanta who said that they have reporters on the ground in Aruba and were adamant that they are sticking by their story.

However, officials in Aruba maintain that no confession was made and there has been no other arrest apart from the five made earlier.

According to one US report, police this morning visited a home on the outskirts of the capital city of Oranjestad and were later seen coming from the house with a young man wearing handcuffs, but the Aruba police have also denied this.

However, police did confirm to Caribbean Net News that, of the arrested trio, two are brothers and hail from Suriname while the other is a 17-year-old Dutchman who is the son of a top member of Aruba's legal circle.
     ----------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from: ******* on January 08, 2008, 11:04:54 PM

<snipped>

ORANJESTAD, Aruba -- Satish and Deepak Kalpoe, the two Surinamese brothers previously detained in the Natalee Holloway case, have been re-arrested on suspicion of premeditated rape and murder, Aruban government officials said Friday. A third person was also detained.

Prosecutor's office spokeswoman Mariaine Croes told FOX News that the third person was a man known as "Freddy" or "F.A.," said to be a friend of Joran van der Sloot, who has been held in the case since June 9.

It was unclear if the third arrest was related to the Holloway case.

"Freddy" has been held since June 9?
http://freedomeden.blogspot.com/2005/08/more-from-aruba.html
-----------------------------------------------

Here is the link for the conversations on the above posts….

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2500.740

The link under Freddy’s name also said that Jaime was going to be arrested in August with the re-arrest of the Kalpoes and Freddy’s arrest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


December 27, 2007, 01:52:31 PM-my post
 
I have been looking at June 16th because of Lala’s 5th suspect and noticed that Satish was not questioned from June 11th until June 18th, except by Judge Wit. I am presuming that this was in regards to a further 8 day detention, but haven’t checked on it yet. Here are a few things from my notes as the 16th and Rene were mentioned by the night crew. Have not included details of 17th and 18th. Maybe it will help ******* to see why Rene’s wife murdered him! LOL!

June 15th 2005Van der Sloot’s house searched
Anita and Paulus questioned per Top95
Steve Croes questioned
Florencia Metz questioned
Natalee missing for 4 days in Costa Rica rumor posted and deleted.
Geraldo on Fox - theory on porn video

June 16th 2005
QuestionedCamera controllers – various hotels
Florencia Metz
Koen Gottenbos
Sander Gottenbos
Freddy Arambatzis
Lorenzo van Rijn
Max Arendz
Joran’s lawyer spoke with a witness - Top 95
Boycott of Aruba talks announced – 95.1
Joran changes to Kalpoes story – Top 95
Distance to Joran’s house from hotels measured
Porn movie theory debunked by editor of Aruba Today and not mentioned again on Fox
Judge to rule on Paulus visiting Joran
Aruba radio says around 3.30PM that there is an arrest in Savaenta - no confirmation
Abrams Report – arrest not related to Natalee
Helicopter with heat seeking equipment near Donkey Farm
Picture of Joran not looking happy – NY Post and AP

Rumors from June 16th 2005
Joran’s lawyer did not tell the truth about what was discussed with the witness-interesting
Joran’s lawyer fired
Interviewing three more -  Jaime and Freddy should be included
Fox says evidence found
Val taken off the island
Judge not to rule today
Helicopter searched near Seroe/Kia – not sure if this is near the Donkey Farm
Joran was seen going into the woods at ISA on May 30th.
This is second raid and arrest not related to Natalee’s case
Possible first rumor of 6.30 phone call
More rumors that Natalee had run away before
Friend speaks out on Joran’s temper
Friend speaks out on Satish’s temper

From Fox by a friend of the Kalpoes
Satish and Deepak hung out a lot with vacationers No connection to drugs. No fights with people. THinks brothers are protecting Joran.edit: Friend was also from Surinam

June 16th to 17th.
ORANJESTAD - The death of Rene van Heyningen, on the night of Thursday, 16 on Friday, June 17, 2005, were relationship problems in advance. The man was violent and jealous women

June 17th.
Steve Croes arrested
Satish questioned by Judge Wit

Questioned
Sander
Freddy
Steve
Jaime
Koen

June 18th. 2005
Paulus questioned
Bank lady, Ruth Dijkhoff, murdered in The Netherlands

By the way, I do not buy into ‘the not connected to Natalee’ garbage. All of these people were questioned because of what happened to Natalee.  Lala’s has said many times that just because they were suspects, does not mean that they were detained. Why did ALE not release information about the status of some? Why NO questions for Satish?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 23, 2008, 09:02:52 AM
So this tells me that he was a C...dmolester from the get go.  But Like I am saying now we are getting deep into trouble  zone.   

"he walks te palace and he is the owner of the Hammer and Brick." 

In Other words He is the LAW and like they say the "Judge Drops the Hammer on the Brick and case was closed".

Now I understand why no one is willing come forewarth, they do not have the guts to deal with the Judge.
 
 
 


So is the Judge 'Dirty Hand' or is he the 'hidden card?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 23, 2008, 09:20:07 AM
Sorry Caps...I meant to say Thanks in Advance....

Links and posts for Shango and Simian

These are the links that Lala’s posted from page 28

Simian link
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1194.0

Shango link
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=281.0


There is another poster Merian Ernest. Check it out also.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=223.0


Link to Shango’s posts from Magnolia, page 28

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.520


Links to the missing Simian posts…169-179

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.940
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.960


Maybe Klaas could check the last ones that were missing and edit them back in with the Real Simian posts….Thanks Magnolia for bringing all those posts over!





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 23, 2008, 09:24:56 AM
Good day to all,

Do anyone have the SHANGO riddle in an unedited form, I will like to compare it to Simian.

SIMIAN is saying that SHANGO is Fake and not to Trust what he is saying.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 23, 2008, 09:35:22 AM
Good day to all,

Do anyone have the SHANGO riddle in an unedited form, I will like to compare it to Simian.

SIMIAN is saying that SHANGO is Fake and not to Trust what he is saying.



Caps...I'm not sure what you mean. there is a link in my last post for the Shango posts...I think they are down towards the bottom of the page. Otherwise they are spread all over the SM.com site in a whole lot of threads.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 23, 2008, 10:16:50 AM
Good day to all,

Do anyone have the SHANGO riddle in an unedited form, I will like to compare it to Simian.

SIMIAN is saying that SHANGO is Fake and not to Trust what he is saying.



That is true..however, Shango is the one that begins the talk of raves and Joran leaving Natalee at a house. He also is the one that talks of her being singled out at the casino and the lions that prey on young women.  So you can't have it both ways.  Simian was also ridiculed by posters in Aruba at the time as being in touch with little green men.  Checkme, that posted some accurate information did not hold Simian in high regard either.  Many times when Checkme was on relaying info, Simian appeared just as Shango does to refute what was being said.  Shango spent more time telling everyone that Joran was a scapegoat and that it was someone else that killed Natalee.  Simian does also...to Simian the #5 person is the killer or person responsible and to Shango it is the elders at the rave.  So neither places the blame on Joran. If Joran is innocent, why spend all this time lying to cover for someone else?  Shango and Simian both say that Natalee died at the hands of someone other than Joran. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 23, 2008, 10:25:30 AM
Good day to all,

Do anyone have the SHANGO riddle in an unedited form, I will like to compare it to Simian.

SIMIAN is saying that SHANGO is Fake and not to Trust what he is saying.



Caps...I'm not sure what you mean. there is a link in my last post for the Shango posts...I think they are down towards the bottom of the page. Otherwise they are spread all over the SM.com site in a whole lot of threads.

What we have given you is the most complete version that exists at the time.  There are posts made on one area that links back to other places and comments...it is quite scattered across many pages.  There is  post by Simian that are not even included in the posts.  They have not real meaning in the overall scheme, but I found it once and had them saved on my other computer.  It was just a comment or two I found on a page that we didn't have.  I wish I still had it...it was only a single comment.  There are posts found at other sites also, that may or may not be from the real Shango, if there ever was a real Shango....so you have to work with what is available that is what we have been doing for over 2 years now.   Unedited to me would be in the actual context of the conversation...there are some of those already in this thread.  Mum and I have posted them often, trying to understand the actual context of the riddles.  My personal opinion is that you must read them in the context (which can be as long as 50 comments) to understand them. I have various interpretations if you would like any of that.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 23, 2008, 10:29:57 AM
#5=DirtyHand


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 23, 2008, 10:31:45 AM
Babylonian Card (one of two played by PVDS) tossed from the table

Jacobs: ".....not a suspect, never was a suspect."


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 23, 2008, 10:33:39 AM
#5=DirtyHand

Which Dirty Hand?  The polis official dirty hand or the Arawak Dirty Hand?  I always thought you had someone else in mind for dirty hand=MJ?  Have you changed your mind?  Just curious...I can't keep up with you anymore...not that I ever could...you are always ahead of me in your thinking. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 23, 2008, 10:34:32 AM
I find it interesting as to when they started posting...Simian especially as all we have seen and heard happened on the 16th and 17th.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 23, 2008, 10:35:10 AM
The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.

The lamb is a scapegoat.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 23, 2008, 10:36:30 AM
#5=DirtyHand

Which Dirty Hand?  The polis official dirty hand or the Arawak Dirty Hand?  I always thought you had someone else in mind for dirty hand=MJ?  Have you changed your mind?  Just curious...I can't keep up with you anymore...not that I ever could...you are always ahead of me in your thinking. LOL



one of your posts flipped a switch......see ere:

« Reply #1006 on: January 22, 2008, 07:18:07 PM »


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 23, 2008, 10:38:42 AM
#5=DirtyHand


Are you saying that the 5th suspect is also DirtyHand...and that is Jacobs? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 23, 2008, 10:42:44 AM
#5=DirtyHand


Are you saying that the 5th suspect is also DirtyHand...and that is Jacobs? TIA


no-quoting Jacobs in reference to this individual......see #1006


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 23, 2008, 10:44:35 AM
and what I'm saying is that we can't know who is #5, because "the Babylonian Card may have been from the table"

but who many believe to be #5 may in fact be DirtyHand


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 23, 2008, 10:46:10 AM
sorry..."tossed from the table"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 23, 2008, 10:46:15 AM
I find it interesting as to when they started posting...Simian especially as all we have seen and heard happened on the 16th and 17th.

Then Shango doesn't come on board until later in the month....most likely to counter some of the info Simian is providing.  We do not know if Shango was posting in any other forums before that either. He could have been at RWV or Websleuths or any number of places including the Yahoo message boards an we would never know now. Same with Simian, Checkme, AIA and a host of others.  I occasionally find posts by people that sound and use the same phrasing, but still there is no way to tell without IP and email info, I don't guess.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 23, 2008, 11:03:46 AM
No switch flipped here...LOL and I went back twice and reopened the link...so COLUMBO, please tell who you think is DirtyHand!!!


(put all those links together so that I wouldn't have to run all over the thread and look what happened!)  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 23, 2008, 11:17:49 AM
and what I'm saying is that we can't know who is #5, because "the Babylonian Card may have been from the table"

but who many believe to be #5 may in fact be DirtyHand

Simian knew who #5 was...he just would not say because...and this is MIO...if he did say then ALE and others would either know who Simian was and he would be in real trouble or he knew and had no way to prove what he was saying...still no answers.  One thing we do know are the hints to #5 identity. Simian was pretty much plain talk until he/she got warned to keep quiet...the boards were being monitored and the cover up underway within a few weeks. Simian gives very clear hints to me...maybe just to me...but he says #5 was a boyfriend...I take that to mean a male acquaintance.  Natalee was only on the island for about 3 days...can't establish a serious relationship in that short of time without spending each and every waking moment with this "boyrfriend".  Simian says she met this person in the casino. He has an alibi...what kind of alibi?  One that can't be broken because of the people that are offering this alibi.  Simian also says that the alibi are the party goers...that party people were with the 5th suspect and he was the host...I take that to be host of the party...the party these people were attending.  I know some think differently, but it is there in plain English...Simian did not riddle until he had to.  Simian clearly says that this "lover" was angry at someone...most likely Joran, but it could have been Natalee that he was angry with...since Simian mentions motive.  Funny to me that this all occurred within 48 hours....not much time to develop a plot if you ask me.   "cool and crazy" guy tells me it's someone ALE is suspecting from the beginning...Simian is trying to tell us who it is without saying a name.  Dirty Hand did not enter the picture until Shango arrived and to me they are not the same person.  Dirty Hand exerts much more influence than #5 does...he knows all and sees all and can break the alibi.  I am most likely way off here, but I have studied this stuff too and that is what I see.  My opinion is subject to change with additional proof. MOO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on January 23, 2008, 11:31:59 AM
Update:

157.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Steve Croes is singing.
Posted Jun 23, 3:17 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Van

Note: The 5th Person was Arrested on June 23, 2005 at 3:01 when Steve Croes start siging. Who is Paul Van Der Sloot..

Look at the time and the date


Steve Croes is or was (is) a friend to G. Cromvroit (of Beach Security and Red Sails) where Koen worked.  They all knew each other, through each other.  G. Cromvroit would have access to any and everything as his father owns the Security Company and he worked beach patrol and at times hotel security.  They installed and managed the video security for most of the businesses in the area.  There are pictures of Steve Croes being with G. Cromvroit along with some young women, one of whom looks to be close kin to Julia Renfro, perhaps a younger version.  The international school has small classes and the vanilla boys had to know one another.  It is obvious.       jack blue
It was my oversight not to check the arrest dates.

So this tell me that he was a C...dmolser from the get go.  But Like I am saying now we are getting deep into trouble  zone.   "he walks te palace and he is the owner of the Hammer and Brick."  In Other words He is the LAW and like they say the Judge Drop the Hammer on the Brick and case closed.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 23, 2008, 11:32:32 AM
Lala's...at this time I tend to agree.

I can't see Natalee showing any interest in Lorenzo, from what we've seen in pictures, and that has always steered him away from him. Don't think she'd see anything much in Freddy either, but Joran tells us that he and Freddy hang out around the beaches to pick up tourists. I find it very strange indeed that Joran always goes out with Freddy and Jaime, and Koen too, but on the the weekend the Mountain Brook kids were there he went out with Deepak and Satish on both the Saturday and Sunday night. One of the Kalpoes even said this was unusual.

This has been bothering me and will have to go back to the original post....in the Simian real posts....party-go-ers....maybe nothing, but something I noticed as strange as most say party goers...as you just did.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on January 23, 2008, 11:36:07 AM
Good day to all,

Do anyone have the SHANGO riddle in an unedited form, I will like to compare it to Simian.

SIMIAN is saying that SHANGO is Fake and not to Trust what he is saying.



Shango said Simian is a fake.  Simian is a fake.  Shango is real and called Simian who he is.    Jack B.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 23, 2008, 11:38:18 AM
Jackb...and GVC's house was still for sale as of 12/17/2007. I did a little checking a couple of weeks ago and found where Wilhelm von Cromvoit was 'interragated' early on. Also saw it said that Dompig was protecting GVC as he was a friend of Michael Dompig's.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 23, 2008, 11:45:15 AM
Good day to all,

Do anyone have the SHANGO riddle in an unedited form, I will like to compare it to Simian.

SIMIAN is saying that SHANGO is Fake and not to Trust what he is saying.





Shango said Simian is a fake.  Simian is a fake.  Shango is real and called Simian who he is.    Jack B.

Please elaborate on this for me...I would like to know what brought you to that conclusion?  By fake do you mean a poster that was trying to get attention? Someone that didn't know anything about what was happening?  Someone that was just trying to keep the truth hidden?  I am confused. TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on January 23, 2008, 12:05:08 PM
Good day to all,

Do anyone have the SHANGO riddle in an unedited form, I will like to compare it to Simian.

SIMIAN is saying that SHANGO is Fake and not to Trust what he is saying.





Shango said Simian is a fake.  Simian is a fake.  Shango is real and called Simian who he is.    Jack B.

Please elaborate on this for me...I would like to know what brought you to that conclusion?  By fake do you mean a poster that was trying to get attention? Someone that didn't know anything about what was happening?  Someone that was just trying to keep the truth hidden?  I am confused. TIA
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
The last hope rests on the shoulders of the cowboys. Ten days, two down, eight to go.
The elder knows the passages in the palace too well. The Babylonians are afraid they might not be able to stop him.
Don’t shake the wire, ‘cause the bird will fy away.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians do not like the Babylonian intrusion.
The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Shock means well. He understands the Babylonians, but they don’t hold the hammer nor the block.
The alibi needs to be broken. The party-go-ers need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes. The house was dusted.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Simian, why was the key from the Babylons Palace not used to open the Sumerians Door ?
They have become famished and Eden is beckoning….
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:26 pm
Simian, his lordship did not bring the expected key
the door never existed
Eden is distant
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:27 pm
The cowboys have only so much gold. The territory is rough. There are many secrets, but the Arawaks are helping.
The palace is open to all, but the palace is a maze to most.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:30 pm
Simian, his lordship did not bring the key for the Arawaks
So it will remain “cowboys and indians”
The posse was too late
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:31 pm
The Babylonians don’t hold the hammer nor the block. They are running out of options.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:33 pm
Simian, His Lordship did not bring the key found in the car, it did not exist
The arawaks can’t open the door
Hope lies with the cowbous,
but the posse was too late
Eden is still distant
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:37 pm
Why don’t the Arawaks to play the Babylonian Card ?
The posse is far from the fort and the loot is gone
The indians can’t count on the cowboys
The arawaks need to audition the singing card
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:40 pm
The key does not exist
The Arawaks knew Babylonian involvement would prove futile
That is why the cowboys left the fort and a searching with the indians
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:43 pm
The fallen judge agreed to sing because he can hum any tune
He needs to sing for his son, or see the end of his babylonian offspring
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:45 pm
Shango is not limited to any location, orixas are his messengers
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:49 pm
Elder needs to sing to preserve his lineage
To agree to remain silent is to agree not to hum any tune
The Arawaks are desperate, they fear for the tribe, they do not want war with the cowboys
But the loot remains hidden
And the Arawaks keep their singing card hidden as well
The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:57 pm
The Arawaks may not need to play the singing card
The cowboys won’t hear the music and the teepees will be safe
Wampum is needed as the doors closed on Eden
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:04 pm
The wire has been shaken. The bird has left.
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:10 pm
The system is built so that innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:11 pm
The system is built so that the innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:14 pm
Simian your Dopple has resumed position
Bird on the wire
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:16 pm
You must remember
The Arawaks placed singing beetles with the Babylonian and the two Shivas
They were never alone
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:22 pm
Because the fallen judge agreed, he can sing any song he wants
A poisonous siren in the halls of babylon
He will sing to keep doors open, much to the cowboys distress
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:26 pm
The maze of Babylon is very difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent
The Arawaks cannot reveal their singing card
many teepees would be destroyed and the cowboys would get upset
the singing card is bad luck for wampum for many moons
So there must be some type of sacrifice
The gods are hungry, the cowboys are hungry
Great disruption in the halls of babylonian palace
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:29 pm
There will be sacrifice
Tribal elders worried
Bad wampum, many moons
Light the fires
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:33 pm
Arawaks do not like Babylonian musicians
Everyone in camp hears poison music
Many teepees fall
New wars with babylon
No Wampum, many moons
Light the Fires!
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:37 pm
What is an Arawak.
To find answers, one must Google if smoke signals blowing in strong wind
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.
Many teepees fall. No Wampum.
Cowboys eat Sacrifice. Arawaks eat sacrifice.
Dirty hand stays hidden, but all are well-fed.
Cowboys happy, but unrest in the halls of the palace
Babylon owes the Arawaks!
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:50 pm
If Babylonian Card sings, all will fill
Teepees and the house of babylon
We must have a sacrifice
Hide dirty hand
Light the fires!
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:53 pm
If Babylonian card sings ALL will fall
Teepees and the house of Babylon
If cowboys stay, after the sacrifice, everyone see dirty hand.
No Wampum, Many Moons.
Light the fires!
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:55 pm
If cowboys see dirty hand, many teepees fall. House of Babylon falls.
we must have a sacrifice to feed the cowboys.
they go back to the fort with no loot.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:58 pm
Halls of the house of babylon may suddenly twist
to accomodate cowboys walking in the maze.
No loot, but many answers.
Better twisted hallways than fallen houses.
Many invisible spirits around Arawak Fires. Many gods watching.
we must have a sacrifice.
Light the fires!
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:02 pm
Do not listen to cowgirls who cast shadows on the walls of doubt….
There will be a sacrifice.
The cowboys will be happy.
The house of Babylon won’t fall and crush the teepees
There will be a sacrifice
Soon many will see smoke signals
Cowboys will go back to fort
But first we need the sacrifice
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:04 pm
Prepare the fires.
We need a sacrifice
A babylonian beast. Young Lamb der Sloot
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:13 pm
arawaks are lighting the fire
babylonians have no hunger
cowboys want a sacrifice
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks
The way is clouded for the sacrifice
Rules have changed, so has the maze
the way is lost for the pioneers who went to live among the indians
The flames are growing
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police;
to spare the teepees
Singing cards have lost their power
Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand
His lordship will bestow the title soon….
They will save the teepees and the palace,
but first
The Sacrifice
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:30 pm
We need a sacrifice to appease the Arawaks and the Cowboys
Teepees already swaying in strong babylonian wind
House of Babylon does not want a sacrifice
They do not care about Arawak Teepees
only wrath of cobwoys
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:32 pm
The sacrifice is the correct food to appease the gods, arawaks, and cowboys
but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake
even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:39 pm
Every tribe has bad Indians
Every fort has bad cowboys
If sirens sing a poison song, all will get sick
Arawaks and cowboys working well
Arawaks fear wrath of cowboys for DirtyHand
But babylonians live in teepees too
If the house of babylon is to remain erect,
it must protect the babylonians who have
lived in teepees, among the arawaks, for a long time.
babylon will agree to a sacrifice of newer
teepee dwellers to prevent the story of dirtyhand being made public
Dirtyhand scares arawaks too
the sacrifice will be the correct sacrifice to appease the gods and cowboys
cowboys will leave without loot
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:43 pm
Meetings with his lordship will reveal several mysteries
the sacrifice also knows the fires have been lit
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:48 pm
The simplicity of Occams Razor is often outweighed by
the complexity of maintaining factors in an elemental state
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:50 pm
The pain the sacrificial beast will feel depends on how
quickly the cowboys return to the fort.
ConcernedUK Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:51 pm
Does Shango liaise with Simian?
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:54 pm
The Arawaks are not going to sacrifice a scapegoat
Babylon needs to allow one sacrifice to keep DirtyHand hidden
Babylon scared of DirtyHand
Arawaks scared of DirtyHand
If sacrifice is made, teepees are safe, villagers and cowboys happy
If DirtyHand discovered, House of Babylon falls, Teepees crushed under great house
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy
Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House
Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house,
and so DirtyHand was discovered
But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings
He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:00 pm
arawaks and babylonians often fight, but this is
kept from the cowboys as it can affect wampum for many moons.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:02 pm
The babylonians are to blame.
The arawaks were worried about teepees and the cowboys.
They did not bring DirtyHand into the Tribe!
He will go back to babylon broken, after the sacrifice is eaten
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:04 pm
If DirtyHand sings, sacrifice will still be eaten.
But there will be many more people at the feast, and the cowboys would resent the Arawaks for Babylons interference.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist.
doors to eden remain closed.
The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas.
But the other card is dirty.
Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.
If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons.
DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon.
Better to prepare the sacrifice quickly so the cowboys go home
….without the loot
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
There are many DirtyHands among the Arawak, and so it has been for centuries…
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:28 pm
All preceding stated is verifiable
DirtyHand is well known
there will be a sacrifice
the gods have been talking
the fires have been lit
the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot
that is why they are preparing the sacrifice
All fear DirtyHand
Arawaks and babylon
I must go feed the messengers
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:30 pm
Shango is not a Simian Doppleganger and has his own messengers
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys.
All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat.
The gods are talking
DirtyHand is alive and well
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:06 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into Babylon on his 12:31 A.M. post
Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:25 pm
The Arawaks want the truth to come out
As long as DirtyHand is not found
Aruba is preserved and Babylon will pay the price
the gods know that the blame lies on babylon
the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:27 pm
DirtyHand and the fallen judge may not be crucified
the gods are talking
Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak
The singing card can not be played
The cowboys would circle the wagons
The arawaks are preparing the sacrifice
light the fires
the gods are talking
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:21 pm
The sacrificial offering will not be scapegoat
Babalú Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:26 pm
The kidnapper is not Aruban
Van Rijn can not be pressured
The FBI would close in on the whole operation
The Arubans are prepared to give somebody as a token culprit
They will not sacrifice Steve Croes
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused.
The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away.
The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms.
The gamblers knew the girl.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
Who knows what song the elder will sing
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl
the arawaks new the girl
and the babylonians still know the girl
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:34 pm
the struggle between the babylonians and the arawaks still remains hidden
the arawaks awaited the key
his lordship said no
the door to eden remains closed
they are preparing the fire
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak
Many pioneers have settled with the tribe

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:36 pm
All that the gamblers knew was written down.
They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Did the babylonians like to make movies?
From the tears, a new river will spring forth….
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The boy told the Hindus that he didn’t need their help anymore.
This was in the small hours. The confrontation was brutal.
So who heeded his call? Who switched places?
People…the bloodied, swollen tongue. The boy’s fear runs deep.
They accuse him to be Bifrons. (Bifrons = demon /monster)
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The card of babylon was already played
if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation
the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made
Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles
cowboys hear the singing, but the words are not understood
The gods and the babylonians are worried about the cowboys response
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:51 pm
The 46th spirit does not walk the same circle as the elders, this shall be his downfall
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are.
The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew he girl.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Tribe knows all of the players, even the elders of the inner circle
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:55 pm
DirtyHand walks with the elders
Babylon knows
Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 9:57 pm
The cowboys hear the singing but don’t understand the words
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:03 pm
The alibi needs to be broken. The dogs have pouches on their feet. T
hey are checking the dirty waters in Noord.
The Babylonians know what the girl did earlier in the week.
Therein lies the motive.
The third act will played soon, but the boy is not Ajax.Ajax=Greek hero
He is too afraid to pull off such a feat. commit suicide as Ajax did
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon?
DirtyHand knows, this is his Power
there will be 46 sacrifices
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:08 pm
The 46th will pay for the children of the Elders
Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:13 pm
DirtyHand walks in ALL houses
houses of the Arawaks, and houses of Rave
He can break the alibi
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:16 pm
Mary was not a Virgin
The Arawaks know
The cowboys know
DirtyHand can break the Alibi, he walks all circles
The Simian knows this
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
If the Alibi is broken by DirtyHand the walls of Babylon will shake
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:23 pm
Old treaties between the Babylonians and the Arawaks
were maintained until the gods heard
Babylon now fears reprisals
the fires are lit
there will be 46 sacrifices
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:24 pm
The boy is no Ajax. He is too afraid of the consequences.
He doesn’t want to be made a cafone. cafone=embarrasment to oneself or others
The third act needs to be played and the cowboys will be heroes.
This is all a “lugubrious game” to them. Painiting By Dahli
They were all at the party and all of them are turning their heads.
One of them needs to be pinched. Pinched=brought in and questioned
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:26 pm
The Simian only speaks for himself.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon
the girl knew this
Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.
But not to satiate desire.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Why did the girl owe money?
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon
He holds the real key
The Arawaks fear his exposure
The house of babylon would tumble down on the teepees of the Arawaks
DirtyHand knows the cowboys will leave lootless.
He can break the alibi
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
even after a daughter gives birth to a grandchild,
the father of the new mother will still claim his daughter is a virgin
All who enter the damned corridors of the houses of Babylon
know the dangers that await
But the knowledge that they are forbidden is what makes them so pleasurable
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
All who enter the damned corridors of the houses of Babylon
know the dangers that await
Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Coverups begin with elders and the founders of the houses of Babylon
Not the minions
DirtyHand knows this
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:50 pm
Are insects conned into entering Venus Flytraps?
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
The elder agreed to speak, but he he loves the boy too much.
The knows the passages of the palace too well. So the Babylonians must
make sure the check mate is iron-clad.
Something rotten from The Hague will have to make the third act play out.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:56 pm
The Simian knows his Lordship did not have a key to open the door to eden
the answer lies with the Arawak Nation
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:59 pm
The package is still due.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:01 pm
If the door to eden is to be opened with that key, it will be tomorrow
or forever remained closed
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:09 pm
The whisperer is on the line. The Babylonians know what happened, but their hands are tied. They do not own the hammer nor the block.
The owner of the hammer and the block will never carry the package from the Hague. The trias works infallibly.
The party-go-ers need to be pinched, but no one wants to be the cafone. Including the boy. Too much is at stake and he is no Ajax. He is biting his tongue so he won’t be able to speak. So afraid he is.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:12 pm
Even Flying Birds Sing
If the key does not arrive tomorrow, that door to Eden will remain closed
I must feed the messengers
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:19 pm
The Simian asks that his words not be confused with anyone else’s.
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:41 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post
DirtyHand is alive
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:46 pm
Shango said the key to the Hague did not exist
that door to eden remains closed
until the house with the path
But not of gold
is entered
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder
The gods are talking
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:57 pm
Outsiders brought into the Arawak tribe walk in many circles, nameless
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:59 pm
DirtyHand can bring down all houses
DirtyHand is the key
His reach is long
He walks in all circles
consort to all, except for the gods
He knows the sacrifice is not responsible
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Of whom is the young Babylonian afraid?
Why won’t he talk?
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:05 pm
The dice throwers know
the maze of the rave
and the fly that entered the trap
DirtyHand is the key
He walks in many circles
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:06 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:09 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles
DirtyHand knows this
Children of the Elders play in the maze,
but DirtyHand is afraid to rave
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:29 pm
Babylonians and Shivas do not play with sandcastles
Follow the music!
Mary who was not a Virgin entered the maze to discover it’s secrets
The lamb is scared
The fires are lit
But now the lamb is a goat
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll
ask the men who play dice and “roll”
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:32 pm
THE DRAX SCORES
drax Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Follow the music
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
Mary ROLLED through the Maze
There is more than one house of music
the Lamb is a Scapegoat
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:42 pm
The Lamb returned to the fold
Mary Rolled
And the lions played
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
Windows looking onto Babylon are being opened by the ThreadSurfers
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze
He knows of the forbidden fruit
and the gardeners
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open?
Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths.
Tell the Cowboys!
The Arawaks are hiding the path to the Maze for the Babylonians.
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:57 pm
All know of the music
beckoning lost souls
to enter the seven levels of inferno
who gave Mary the poison wine of Bacchus?
Enter the Maze.
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:01 pm
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:13 pm

DirtyHand does not play with the lions
but he has entered the maze
the lamb is a scapegoat
DirtyHand knows
So does the Elder
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Follow the music
into the maze
the lions know they are being stalked
the gamblers and other Rollers talk
tell the cowboys!

Shango Says:June 27th, 2005 at 11:26 pm
The Arawaks will not enter the maze unless the cowboys refuse the peace pipe
Follow the music,
the lions are not tame
DirtyHand knows,
so does the elder
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:29 pm
Some windows overlooking Babylon have been opened
The cowboys need to find the right path,
but they can’t hear the music.
The Arawaks know
Stupid Cowboys with Arawak Guides
Cowboys don’t read smoke signals,
they must enter the maze!
Shango needs to feed the messengers. The Gods are talking.
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating
afraid to walk through the maze
why don’t the arawaks ambush the lions?
The cowboys don’t know.
DirtyHand knows, but is afraid of the Arawak Nation
The gods are talking
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:48 pm
The Simian was incorrect about the package from the Hague
I told the Simian, but the Simian would not listen
The simian is not a simian, but an austrolopithecus

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:52 pm
Threadsurfers on other beaches are oblivious to the Maze and the lions
without exposure, the arawaks will deceive the cowboys
they will leave without loot
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:56 pm
Shango is the god of justice
alive in many forms
he who speaks through Oxum through lightning
and himself through thunder
father of the violent dance
diviner of secrets of the seven levels of inferno
bound to truth even as it burns
so that justice may be brought.
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:59 pm
Only those who cRave music go into the Maze
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:04 am
The gods of Babylon have orchested the refrain for the Arawak choir
the music which holds the answers lies within the maze
the cowboys will smile sweetly as the chorus sings
backs turned to the maze
never hearing a single note
from the poison song
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:11 am
All the Arawaks know the Maze which plays the poison songs
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:14 am
How those innocent young flies enter the trap with honey laden notes
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:19 am
Shango must leave to feed the messengers
The gods are talking
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation
meet, under cover of delusion.
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.
Tell the cowboys!
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:28 am
Not all lions leave their den
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:34 am
That which is hidden shan’t be found in the light
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:37 am
Yliana and Subdude have both opened windows which look into the heart of babylon
do not stray from your paths
you hold the key in hand

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:39 am
The threadsurfers are opening the door to babylon
be careful of the lions
DirtyHand does not have them tamed
but he can enter the den
tell the cowboys
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:11 am
See Subdude / Iliana 12:34
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:32 am
For the doubters: You do not need to see a grain of sand in your eye to know it is there
Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:43 am
The Simian has a handicap of 12.
Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:52 am
The Simian says that The Simian only reports developments ahead of time. The Simian thinks was is going on is shameless. Playing with feelings.
Th Simian’s umbilical is buried close to the heart of the island. NOBODY EVER try to put us down. The Simian hates what he has been reading.
All things must pass.
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:55 am
Find the music
Only David left the den alive

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:27 am
Crypticism leads to tributaries of thought which would not usually leave the MainStream

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:29 am
Babylon is Falling
The Arawak teepees will be crushed
will they sacrifice the Lamb or the Lion
to make the cowboys smile
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:39 am
The arawaks must hunt the lions
in the place of darkness
house of secrets

edited to add what was missing :

# Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am

The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys

DirtyHand knows

Simian knows

The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day

Shango said no two times

Is Simian a DirtyHand too

Has the Simian played with the lions

in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes

where the innocent flies are lured?

Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals?

Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno,

not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!
# Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 1:49 am

All of Shango’s information comes from the higher power, Olorum

Shango has not danced with the lions, nor Arawaks,and does not keep their company

Eyes of god may look from afar with great acuity.

The resolution to find Mary lies with the Arawak Nation

Dirty Hand has bound the Arawak Nation with Babylonian Rope

The Lamb and the two Shivas whisper in the dark,

while the lions pace silently in the bush.

Dirty Hand is the link!

The lamb, the shivas, the elder whispering, exiting like theives in the night, clothed with invisible armor

If Dirty Hand falls, so does Babylon, but too, the Arawak Nation shall suffer.

Threadsurfers listen!

The lamb shall run anew in virgin fields, cropping sweet grass which should remain untouched.

The Lamb has sins, but the lions have sharper teeth.

A new key must be found to open unknown doors.

The first concern of the Arawak nation is wampum.

But unseen tides pull babylonian seas through Arawak Moats, bittering the waters.

DirtyHand and the Lions must see the light of Arawak Day, or forever walk in plentiful fields.

The dead shall eternally sleep if a clamour is not made.

Lamb and the Elder are stepping stones into the fetid pool of deception.

The rule of the Arawak King is the Final word.

DirtyHand has fouled the air for all nearby, but the Arawak Nation will claim Babylonian Authority prevents them from hunting Lions, and DirtyHand.

But the Arawak king controls destiny of all. The Arawak king has DirtyHands and DirtyFeet. If he is to reign anew, he cannot be soiled more.

The babylonians have ruled the Arawak Nation through deception and stealth, and their charges, the Arawaks, speak now with the same forked tongue, on behalf of their king.

The gift the cowboys ask of the king of the Arawak Nation is a mere trifle.

All ye who sing in the cyber-chorus lower your voices not!

It has been proven that the lamb, the shivas, and the elders are not the breach in Arawak Armour!

Let us hunt Lions, The King, and Dirty Hand.

The lions pace silently in the bush, while the king seeks pleasures with his concubines.

Threadsurfers! What is sought is not hidden.

The Lamb and the elder are not the keystone in the Arch of Corruption.

Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid Arawak King who wishes to blame the babylonians for the behaviour of lowly minions.

If the head of the beast is in plain view it is folly to attack protected flanks.

Threadsurfers, DirtyHand is more vulnerable than the Arawak King and your lances should point in his direction.

He is the weak link, if he tumbles, all fall with him….. The lamb, the shivas, the elder

Shango looks from afar but speaks with truth. He does not converse with the Simian, or any other worldly sources, and attempts to bring direction to speculation

I must feed the messengers

The gods are talking
# Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:11 am

All Secrets are hidden in Plain View
# Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:13 am

The Arawaks make the cowboys dance so the smoke signals are lost in the wind

How can one hunt for lions without a local guide?

How can one hunt for lions with fishing gear?

DirtyHand still commands Arawak war parties, confusing outlanders…

Time is the enemy of the cowboys

and friend to the Arawaks, the Babylonians, and the hunted Jungle beasts
# Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:26 am

In your senseless rage you wave your sword recklessly

as such you would sever the limb even of a defender of the faith

If a bird whispers an evil secret, the listener is not the sinner!

Not all messages come from a terrestrial origin.

Believe.

When olorum speaks, lesser gods listen but do not ask how it is they hear





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 23, 2008, 12:16:57 PM
I know those posts forward and backward.  I want your comments as to how you came to the conclusion that Simian was fake and in what manner is he/she fake?  Fake as in knew nothing?  Fake as in was the same person as Shango?  Fake as in how? 

They certainly did not like each other, but then again neither did some of the Aruban posters like Shango and thought he was a fake too.  Regardless, both mysterious messengers thought Joran was not the guilty party in Natalee's demise.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 23, 2008, 12:37:30 PM
Thanks jackb...saved me a heap of time!

 ::MonkeyDance::

I wonder what you mean too Jackb. TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on January 23, 2008, 12:55:53 PM
Good day to all,

Do anyone have the SHANGO riddle in an unedited form, I will like to compare it to Simian.

SIMIAN is saying that SHANGO is Fake and not to Trust what he is saying.





Shango said Simian is a fake.  Simian is a fake.  Shango is real and called Simian who he is.    Jack B.

Please elaborate on this for me...I would like to know what brought you to that conclusion?  By fake do you mean a poster that was trying to get attention? Someone that didn't know anything about what was happening?  Someone that was just trying to keep the truth hidden?  I am confused. TIA

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:48 pm
The Simian was incorrect about the package from the Hague
I told the Simian, but the Simian would not listen
The simian is not a simian, but an austrolopithecus



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 23, 2008, 01:00:48 PM
Still confused. Sorry...patience with me...I am slow some days.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on January 23, 2008, 01:01:08 PM
Good day to all,

Do anyone have the SHANGO riddle in an unedited form, I will like to compare it to Simian.

SIMIAN is saying that SHANGO is Fake and not to Trust what he is saying.



Shango said Simian is a fake.  Simian is a fake.  Shango is real and called Simian who he is.    Jack B.
Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals?

Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno,

not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!
# Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 1:49 am

All of Shango’s information comes from the higher power, Olorum

Shango has not danced with the lions, nor Arawaks,and does not keep their company

Eyes of god may look from afar with great acuity.

The resolution to find Mary lies with the Arawak Nation

Dirty Hand has bound the Arawak Nation with Babylonian Rope

The Lamb and the two Shivas whisper in the dark,

while the lions pace silently in the bush.

Dirty Hand is the link!   Jack B





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on January 23, 2008, 01:07:23 PM
Good day to all,

Do anyone have the SHANGO riddle in an unedited form, I will like to compare it to Simian.

SIMIAN is saying that SHANGO is Fake and not to Trust what he is saying.





Shango said Simian is a fake.  Simian is a fake.  Shango is real and called Simian who he is.    Jack B.

Please elaborate on this for me...I would like to know what brought you to that conclusion?  By fake do you mean a poster that was trying to get attention? Someone that didn't know anything about what was happening?  Someone that was just trying to keep the truth hidden?  I am confused. TIA


The Simian says that The Simian only reports developments ahead of time. The Simian thinks was is going on is shameless. Playing with feelings.
Th Simian’s umbilical is buried close to the heart of the island. NOBODY EVER try to put us down. The Simian hates what he has been reading.
All things must pass.  jack b



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: memphis on January 23, 2008, 01:12:40 PM
Good day to all,

Do anyone have the SHANGO riddle in an unedited form, I will like to compare it to Simian.

SIMIAN is saying that SHANGO is Fake and not to Trust what he is saying.





Shango said Simian is a fake.  Simian is a fake.  Shango is real and called Simian who he is.    Jack B.

Please elaborate on this for me...I would like to know what brought you to that conclusion?  By fake do you mean a poster that was trying to get attention? Someone that didn't know anything about what was happening?  Someone that was just trying to keep the truth hidden?  I am confused. TIA


The Simian says that The Simian only reports developments ahead of time. The Simian thinks was is going on is shameless. Playing with feelings.
Th Simian’s umbilical is buried close to the heart of the island. NOBODY EVER try to put us down. The Simian hates what he has been reading.
All things must pass.  jack b



Simian is female.  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on January 23, 2008, 01:29:39 PM
Jackb...and GVC's house was still for sale as of 12/17/2007. I did a little checking a couple of weeks ago and found where Wilhelm von Cromvoit was 'interragated' early on. Also saw it said that Dompig was protecting GVC as he was a friend of Michael Dompig's.

Steve Croes is a friend of G. Cromvoit.
Koen and G. Cromvoit worked at Red Sail together
Koen also worked on a "pirate ship" for tourists.
So:  Dompig knew Cromvoit and Steve Croes who knows Koen who knows Joran
KOEN and JORAN are best friends. 
JORAN and GUIDO are best of friends and it stands to reason they ALL know each other and are involved and/or knowledgable of the crime.  Koen's parents were supposed to have been away that weekend and when the cats away....etc. 

How could they all have known they would miss work and/or school?  Guido, Koen and Joran it was posted (I do not know, of course) had scratches on their faces.  I think G. Cromvoit did the cleanup for Palus (and possibly his sister since VanderStratten was her boss and VdS was PvS was his best friend.)  G Cromvoit had his sister policewoman in his corner and she had even more motive to keep mum.  The Cromvoits and Vanderstratten and Palus are most likely the cause of her final death to get rid of evidence.  Their justification would go something like.....she is going to pass anyway, so why get everyone in trouble because of this?  The Cromvoits had pistols and knowledgable of them.  The father Cromvoit notified and made sure security videos never helped in any way.  Everyone who participated had to keep quiet because they were either involved in pre death crimes, death crimes and/or getting rid of the evidence.   Most likely S. Croes was guilty of post death crimes and help in disposal.
 Jack B



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 23, 2008, 01:45:39 PM
Hi Memphis...long time no see.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 23, 2008, 01:52:56 PM
Jackb...and GVC's house was still for sale as of 12/17/2007. I did a little checking a couple of weeks ago and found where Wilhelm von Cromvoit was 'interragated' early on. Also saw it said that Dompig was protecting GVC as he was a friend of Michael Dompig's.

Steve Croes is a friend of G. Cromvoit. Yes, we have photo to prove that.
Koen and G. Cromvoit worked at Red Sail together What is Red Sail?  Restaurant?  What?
Koen also worked on a "pirate ship" for tourists. Never heard this one before, where is this?
So:  Dompig knew Cromvoit and Steve Croes who knows Koen who knows Joran
KOEN and JORAN are best friends. 
JORAN and GUIDO are best of friends and it stands to reason they ALL know each other and are involved and/or knowledgable of the crime.  Koen's parents were supposed to have been away that weekend and when the cats away....etc.  Still waiting for confirmation that parents were gone. So you are saying Dompig was involved in this other than looking the other way on occasion?

How could they all have known they would miss work and/or school?  Guido, Koen and Joran it was posted (I do not know, of course) had scratches on their faces. I thought we had established that Guido did not have any scratches on his face?

 I think G. Cromvoit did the cleanup for Palus (and possibly his sister since VanderStratten was her boss and VdS was PvS was his best friend.)  G Cromvoit had his sister policewoman in his corner and she had even more motive to keep mum.  The Cromvoits and Vanderstratten and Palus are most likely the cause of her final death to get rid of evidence.  Their justification would go something like.....she is going to pass anyway, so why get everyone in trouble because of this?  The Cromvoits had pistols and knowledgable of them.  The father Cromvoit notified and made sure security videos never helped in any way.  Everyone who participated had to keep quiet because they were either involved in pre death crimes, death crimes and/or getting rid of the evidence.   Most likely S. Croes was guilty of post death crimes and help in disposal.
 Jack B




Interesting  ideas there...I see you have spent time thinking this out...please continue.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 23, 2008, 02:13:13 PM
I found two...didn't have time to check all the way to see if it is the same or two different ones. watersports, scuba etc....

http://www.aruba-redsail.com/

http://www.redsailaruba.com/ar_index.html





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 23, 2008, 02:47:17 PM
According to the date of ther posting, it seems that Shango is asking Simian and Simian reply, but at the same time Simian is getting mad at Shango because he is also twisting the message.

Simian has an inside in the investigation which is a big capo.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on January 23, 2008, 03:11:09 PM
I found two...didn't have time to check all the way to see if it is the same or two different ones. watersports, scuba etc....

http://www.aruba-redsail.com/

http://www.redsailaruba.com/ar_index.html





Klaas has a photo of Joran with a female prone on a catamaran ....iirc...RedSail...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 23, 2008, 03:46:33 PM
No switch flipped here...LOL and I went back twice and reopened the link...so COLUMBO, please tell who you think is DirtyHand!!!


(put all those links together so that I wouldn't have to run all over the thread and look what happened!)  :roll:


find #1006 in this thread........elder had one or two cards up his sleeve......

one was tossed from the table...crushed under Sumerian feet

=the hidden card that was played (by PVDS)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 23, 2008, 04:06:32 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
The last hope rests on the shoulders of the cowboys. Ten days, two down, eight to go.
The elder knows the passages in the palace too well. The Babylonians are afraid they might not be able to stop him.
Don’t shake the wire, ‘cause the bird will fy away.

CapsLoc Trans:
Shango is asking Simian: who else is in the group who orchestrated this mess, Simian Reply: The last hope rest on the shoulders of the Texas water search. - finding the body
Ten day= 10 are in the band.
Two down= 2 in jail
Eight to go.

Paul knows the law  too well. The investigators are afraid that they might not be able to stop him
Don’t shake the wire, cause the bird will fly away. = don’t do any thing yet, we need to get this bird before he fly away= one will flew the kukusnest to the USA


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?

CapsLoc Trans:
Paul vd S had 2 person against him and are in jail, Which one will go against him and start Talking.


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians do not like the Babylonian intrusion.
The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….

CapsLoc Trans:
The Dutch OM Sumerians who control the Government of Aruba did not want to that the Aruban Investigators start bringing accusation about their fellow colleague The accusation that Paul’s was involved was tossed out from the table and crush under the higher Dutch Law Bureaucracy.


Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Shock means well. He understands the Babylonians, but they don’t hold the hammer nor the block.
The alibi needs to be broken. The party-go-ers need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes. The house was dusted.

CapsLoc Trans:
The Aruba Top Investigator means well, He understands the Aruba Investigators but they can keep the Judge in Jail.
The Alibi Judge alibi need to be broken, the pressure must be put on who was there because they have seen what was going on. Pauls get out and everything was cleaned up.


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Simian, why was the key from the Babylons Palace not used to open the Sumerians Door ?
They have become famished and Eden is beckoning….

CapsLoc Trans:
Why was the Aruba Law Enforcement with the Information they have not been able to bring the Judge to the Prosecutor?
They do not have the power and Mother Holland is calling.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 23, 2008, 04:54:29 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:26 pm
Simian, his lordship did not bring the expected key
the door never existed
Eden is distant

CapsLoc Trans:
The Aruba Chief Prosecutor have no power either to bring him in front of a Prosecutor. He is consulting to Mother Holland. There is no way he can do this, they are not the LAW. There is no answer from Holland yet.


Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:27 pm
The cowboys have only so much gold. The territory is rough. There are many secrets, but the Arawaks are helping.
The palace is open to all, but the palace is a maze to most.

CapsLoc Trans:
The Texas Search does not have money to stay on Aruba, The territory is rough for the Search team, there are so many unanswered questions, But the Aruba Voluntary are given a Helping hand.
The Court house is for everybody, but the procedure around the inns’ and about the court is unknown to most.


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:30 pm
Simian, his lordship did not bring the key for the Arawaks
So it will remain “cowboys and indians”
The posse was too late

CapsLoc Trans:
The Aruba Chief Prosecutor did not bring the expected answer to Dutch Prosecutor to prosecute Paul vd Sloot who is in jail (remember, They have 24 hrs to bring him in front of a prosecutor and show prove, but his alibi is solid. Otherwise they need to let him go.)


So all hope remains now on Texas Search and the Aruba Investigators.
The Posse was too Late: They are run out of time and he walks free.


Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:31 pm
The Babylonians don’t hold the hammer nor the block. They are running out of options.

CapsLoc Trans:
The Aruba Investigator can no longer hold the Judge; The Judge walks. They are running out of options


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on January 23, 2008, 05:14:30 PM
I really am not well versed in this.  I was reading around, the other day, and was struck by an abbreviation.  I'm sure it means nothing , but here it is:

DNA is DeNationale Assembly  (Suriname parliament); (Caricom conference May 25, 2005).  I don't really think it's anything, but since there's a few with Surinamese (sp?) backgrounds, thought I would post it.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:41 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA


 :smt102 :smt102


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 23, 2008, 07:28:13 PM
FBI has offered assistance in the case of a missing Mission Viejo woman in St. Maarten.
By SALVADOR HERNANDEZ
The Orange County Register

St. Maarten police have not yet responded to an offer made by the FBI to help in the search of a missing Mission Viejo woman on the island, authorities said today.
Leta Lynn Cordes, of Mission Viejo, went missing on the Caribbean island of St. Maarten on Jan. 11 after authorities said she told her husband she was going to walk to a nearby casino to gamble.
Local police said they have found no trace of the 49-year-old woman.
Frank Cordes, her husband, remains on the island and said he fears his wife might have been the victim of foul play, although authorities have said they have not found evidence of that.
Earlier this week, the FBI volunteered to aid local authorities in the search for the woman. In a telephone interview today, St. Maarten's Public Prosecutor Taco Stein said investigators are reviewing the status of the case and have not decided whether to accept the bureau's offer.
"At this point, I heard the offer has been made, but we have not replied," Stein said.
The FBI frequently volunteers to aid foreign law enforcement agencies in cases involving missing Americans by providing resources and personnel, said FBI spokeswoman Laura Eimiller. In those cases, the FBI provides assistance and local agencies remain in charge of the investigations.
St. Maarten police have combed the 37-square-mile island with search dogs but have not found a sign of Leta Lynn Cordes.
Frank Cordes said his wife left their island home after the couple returned from having dinner and drinks with his mother. The three had been drinking and Leta left on foot at about 11 p.m. for the Westin St. Maarten casino, about 10 minutes away.
The couple and their friends have visited the island regularly for the last seven years and frequently walked along an unlit road that leads to the casino, Cordes said.
Cordes volunteered to drive her to the casino, but his wife decided to walk instead, he said.
On Tuesday, investigators interviewed Cordes for the second time and asked him detailed questions about who the couple had come into contact since they arrived on the island in December.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 23, 2008, 08:46:55 PM
The Riddle does not look good...it is not good... By computers never fails.....something is wrong with this riddle... who is SHANGO?????

anyone knows?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 23, 2008, 09:06:19 PM
The Riddle does not look good...it is not good... By computers never fails.....something is wrong with this riddle... who is SHANGO?????

anyone knows?

That would be the million dollar question...lot's of speculation and even some really good guesses...what say you? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 23, 2008, 09:14:28 PM
This riddle is pointing to the opposite of the story... I only need a name to go with Arawak and a name to go with arawak.

don't confuse the riddle. the keys are all there and one have to llok good and read it.

after reading it point to.....better not say yet

Klaasend : email soon


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on January 23, 2008, 09:24:13 PM
This riddle is pointing to the opposite of the story... I only need a name to go with Arawak and a name to go with arawak.

don't confuse the riddle. the keys are all there and one have to llok good and read it.

after reading it point to.....better not say yet

Klaasend : email soon

OK, I'll be on the lookout for an email from you.

Edited to add:  Capslock - if it helps Shango was posting from Florida and Simian was posting from Aruba. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 23, 2008, 10:46:46 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
The last hope rests on the shoulders of the cowboys. Ten days, two down, eight to go.
The elder knows the passages in the palace too well. The Babylonians are afraid they might not be able to stop him.
Don’t shake the wire, ‘cause the bird will fy away.

CapsLoc Trans:
Shango is asking Simian: who else is in the group who orchestrated this mess, Simian Reply: The last hope rest on the shoulders of the Texas water search. - finding the body
Ten day= 10 are in the band.
Two down= 2 in jail
Eight to go.

Paul knows the law  too well. The investigators are afraid that they might not be able to stop him
Don’t shake the wire, cause the bird will fly away. = don’t do any thing yet, we need to get this bird before he fly away= one will flew the kukusnest to the USA
Who went to the USA?  Would that be Sander?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?

CapsLoc Trans:
Paul vd S had 2 person against him and are in jail, Which one will go against him and start Talking.
  Who are these 2?  The Kalpoes?  If they didn't do anything why not talk?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians do not like the Babylonian intrusion.
The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….

CapsLoc Trans:
The Dutch OM Sumerians who control the Government of Aruba did not want to that the Aruban Investigators start bringing accusation about their fellow colleague The accusation that Paul’s was involved was tossed out from the table and crush under the higher Dutch Law Bureaucracy.


Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Shock means well. He understands the Babylonians, but they don’t hold the hammer nor the block.
The alibi needs to be broken. The party-go-ers need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes. The house was dusted.

CapsLoc Trans:
The Aruba Top Investigator means well, He understands the Aruba Investigators but they can keep the Judge in Jail.
The Alibi Judge alibi need to be broken, the pressure must be put on who was there because they have seen what was going on. Pauls get out and everything was cleaned up.
  Who is the top investigator?  Do you have a name?   

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Simian, why was the key from the Babylons Palace not used to open the Sumerians Door ?
They have become famished and Eden is beckoning….

CapsLoc Trans:
Why was the Aruba Law Enforcement with the Information they have not been able to bring the Judge to the Prosecutor?
They do not have the power and Mother Holland is calling.
Who in Holland is calling?




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 24, 2008, 12:06:20 AM
LALA:

Who put the sanson money for the Holloway and how much is it... it about this riddle that point to the ... Not yet.

if the ranson is 3 million and then all 3 will get 1 million for the ack...

help

Babylon is the person that paid the price


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 24, 2008, 12:49:24 AM
Well this is tought to say but it all point to a big consperacy ready SHANGO.

The first boy friend flu in to perform an act, but the second boy started to see the girl, but the plan was already in motion by some (BIG BOYS--> Gamblers) and the time was crusial to meet BIg Boys Target. it had to be done..... Who issue the Order???

all three can never talk since thay got money for the ACT and the Judge knowing the maze of the LAW will show them the way out.

this is very dangerous.... it seem that these Big BOYs are well Connected to the house of Babylon... He is the one that paid for them to shut up...

now I am tired ....caps


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 24, 2008, 05:44:44 AM
Caps....interesting concept that Mother Holland is Eden.....here's me going with that maybe it was the truth...

Lala's....remember the early rumors that Val left and came here....often wonder why he was questioned just 3 weeks before this last lot of arrests....and then there are two comments by Joran...one being....'Val is the one I want to speak to' and the other, I think on Joran's release - something about how 'grateful he is to Val'. Paulus never mentions Val, only going home to pick up Sebastion that night. He also tells about them going to school. So are we to believe that they were never in Holland with Anita? Remember the bathtub....

2NJs...I just saw that picture...thanks, I will go back and take another look...also there are 2 Jolly Pirate sites, one has 435 pics, and I didn't have time to go through them

Memphis....legal checkmate could be what Caps is referring to, or that over there you cannot testify against a family member, or neither of these. If it was the 'family' thing I wonder which son he would not want to testify against!

COLUMBO...are you 'trying' to tell me that there there is a connection between Aruba and St. Maarten or is it just the same MO? By the way,I believe Natalee was targeted, and that Joran is a pimp, but who is the #1 pimp?

He needs to tell the truth....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 06:35:27 AM
LALA:

Who put the sanson money for the Holloway and how much is it... it about this riddle that point to the ... Not yet.

if the ranson is 3 million and then all 3 will get 1 million for the ack...

help

Babylon is the person that paid the price

This post is incoherent...what are you saying here?  Are you asking who provided the reward money? The riddle of which person? Shango or Simian?  I think Babylon means the casinos or the gamblers.  One of these two mystery posters comes right out and tells us that.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 24, 2008, 06:39:20 AM
Caps....interesting concept that Mother Holland is Eden.....here's me going with that maybe it was the truth...

Lala's....remember the early rumors that Val left and came here....often wonder why he was questioned just 3 weeks before this last lot of arrests....and then there are two comments by Joran...one being....'Val is the one I want to speak to' and the other, I think on Joran's release - something about how 'grateful he is to Val'. Paulus never mentions Val, only going home to pick up Sebastion that night. He also tells about them going to school. So are we to believe that they were never in Holland with Anita? Remember the bathtub....

2NJs...I just saw that picture...thanks, I will go back and take another look...also there are 2 Jolly Pirate sites, one has 435 pics, and I didn't have time to go through them

Memphis....legal checkmate could be what Caps is referring to, or that over there you cannot testify against a family member, or neither of these. If it was the 'family' thing I wonder which son he would not want to testify against!

COLUMBO...are you 'trying' to tell me that there there is a connection between Aruba and St. Maarten or is it just the same MO? By the way,I believe Natalee was targeted, and that Joran is a pimp, but who is the #1 pimp?

He needs to tell the truth....



The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.

The lamb is a scapegoat.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 06:42:07 AM
Caps....interesting concept that Mother Holland is Eden.....here's me going with that maybe it was the truth...Many code talkers think Eden means truth or facts. I have no idea. How do you come to the conclusion it means Holland?

Lala's....remember the early rumors that Val left and came here....often wonder why he was questioned just 3 weeks before this last lot of arrests....and then there are two comments by Joran...one being....'Val is the one I want to speak to' and the other, I think on Joran's release - something about how 'grateful he is to Val'. Paulus never mentions Val, only going home to pick up Sebastion that night. He also tells about them going to school. So are we to believe that they were never in Holland with Anita? Remember the bathtub....The assumption that the boys were in Holland with Anita is because of a poster here that called the airline and was told that Anita and the boys were on a flight back to Aruba on a certain date.  This is not confirmed as far as I know. A little hard to  be on a plane and home waiting for daddy at the same time. Also, I do think the two younger Sloots were in Aruba.  They were attending school during the time they were supposed to be in Holland. At least that is what Paulus said.  

2NJs...I just saw that picture...thanks, I will go back and take another look...also there are 2 Jolly Pirate sites, one has 435 pics, and I didn't have time to go through them

Memphis....legal checkmate could be what Caps is referring to, or that over there you cannot testify against a family member, or neither of these. If it was the 'family' thing I wonder which son he would not want to testify against!

COLUMBO...are you 'trying' to tell me that there there is a connection between Aruba and St. Maarten or is it just the same MO? By the way,I believe Natalee was targeted, and that Joran is a pimp, but who is the #1 pimp?

He needs to tell the truth....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 24, 2008, 06:43:51 AM
Good Morning Lala's....early bird catches the worm....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 24, 2008, 06:46:57 AM
Good Morning Lala's....early bird catches the worm....

AND COLUMBO....still trying.....need coffee

Lala's...I remember reading Widget's posts....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 24, 2008, 06:50:00 AM

I have it 95% Solved.

Summary: But got to take a rest ... have not sleep yet... Dirty hand is the other sloots son.

This riddle is all about FRAME + MONEY + SACRIFE + it is a CHECKMATE for THE SLOOT and A STILL MATE BETWEEN ARUBA and THE USA...

I can not believe they did it.

BRB


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 06:51:32 AM
and what I'm saying is that we can't know who is #5, because "the Babylonian Card may have been from the table"

but who many believe to be #5 may in fact be DirtyHand

Let's see... I know you tend to think that #5 is Paulus, so are you saying that Paulus is also Dirty Hand?  So how did you decide that?  Dirty Hand walked with the fallen elder...how is that is that is they are one and the same?  Is Paulus Dirty Hand? If you believe he is some gov't official then I guess you could go with that.  If #5 is anyone else, then how can he be dirty hand unless he is Steve Croes?  Steve Croes was released at the same time as Paulus....again...no answers...just more questions.  Is the Babylonian Card Joran?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 24, 2008, 06:53:47 AM
Lala's: read what you quoted


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 24, 2008, 06:54:51 AM
Paulus played two cards-one was DirtyHand......remember the link you posted?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 06:55:03 AM
Good Morning Lala's....early bird catches the worm....

AND COLUMBO....still trying.....need coffee

Lala's...I remember reading Widget's posts....

Hi Mum, did you know I emailed you yesterday?  I do wish you would answer my email. LOL  Yes, Widget was the one...tell me how they can be in Holland and in school at the same time? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 24, 2008, 06:55:25 AM
The music man's song was not on the bill


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 06:56:46 AM
Lala's: read what you quoted


For once just come out and tell us who is the person you think is Dirty Hand and who do you think is the 5th suspect and why.  PLEASE!!!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 24, 2008, 07:02:21 AM

I have it 95% Solved.

Summary: But got to take a rest ... have not sleep yet... Dirty hand is the other sloots son.

This riddle is all about FRAME + MONEY + SACRIFE + it is a CHECKMATE for THE SLOOT and A STILL MATE BETWEEN ARUBA and THE USA...

I can not believe they did it.

BRB

What is a STILL MATE? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 07:03:28 AM

I have it 95% Solved.

Summary: But got to take a rest ... have not sleep yet... Dirty hand is the other sloots son.

This riddle is all about FRAME + MONEY + SACRIFE + it is a CHECKMATE for THE SLOOT and A STILL MATE BETWEEN ARUBA and THE USA...

I can not believe they did it.

BRB

Tell me something I don't already know, Capslock.  This is nothing new here. Many of us have been saying similar things for two years.   Where are the names to go with these mystery people?  Who are they?  Which son are you talking about?  Who is Dirty Hand?  Show me how you know this?  Who is the 5th suspect? Who is the Arawak Dirty Hand? Where is the house of rave?  What straight path?  To where does it lead?  Who is his lordship? Tell me how you came to these conclusions?  Where is this place that Joran took Natalee to that night?  Who was there?  How was she chosen? Who were the two babylonians that provided escort after the Kalpoes dropped them off? To solve the  riddle all these things need some facts to go with them...PLEASE!!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 24, 2008, 07:03:55 AM

Babalú Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:26 pm
The kidnapper is not Aruban
Van Rijn can not be pressured
The FBI would close in on the whole operation
The Arubans are prepared to give somebody as a token culprit
They will not sacrifice Steve Croes


Rember DirtyHand is PAUls other son


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 24, 2008, 07:04:04 AM
Lala's: read what you quoted


For once just come out and tell us who is the person you think is Dirty Hand and who do you think is the 5th suspect and why.  PLEASE!!!!!


YES...PLEASE!

I better bookmark that link....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 07:04:05 AM
The music man's song was not on the bill

Who do you think this is?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 07:04:59 AM

Babalú Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:26 pm
The kidnapper is not Aruban
Van Rijn can not be pressured
The FBI would close in on the whole operation
The Arubans are prepared to give somebody as a token culprit
They will not sacrifice Steve Croes


Rember DirtyHand is PAUls other son

So are you saying that Dirty Hand is LORENZO???????????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 24, 2008, 07:07:40 AM

Babalú Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:26 pm
The kidnapper is not Aruban
Van Rijn can not be pressured
The FBI would close in on the whole operation
The Arubans are prepared to give somebody as a token culprit
They will not sacrifice Steve Croes


Rember DirtyHand is PAUls other son


Other son....Lorenzo???? We don't even know if he is or not....it was a rumor...is it true that he is? Again TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 24, 2008, 07:09:16 AM
who else plays in the band




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 07:10:41 AM
who else plays in the band




What band?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 24, 2008, 07:14:17 AM
who else plays in the band





If you mean a real band....Paulus and Rudy...but not the same band


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 07:14:46 AM
Paulus played two cards-one was DirtyHand......remember the link you posted?

No, remind me. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 24, 2008, 07:14:59 AM
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….
 

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one or two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing? ("who said the alibi played for van der sloot's....the 5th suspect is waltzing away")

who did Jacobs say ".....is not a suspect, was never a suspect...")

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians do not like the Babylonian intrusion.
The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 07:15:49 AM
who else plays in the band





If you mean a real band....Paulus and Rudy...but not the same band

And did you know that Simian played in a band too?  That is id you believe Simian is a certain ALE person.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 24, 2008, 07:16:23 AM
your link was RWV


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 24, 2008, 07:17:02 AM
the two cards


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 07:17:22 AM
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….
 

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one or two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing? ("who said the alibi played for van der sloot's....the 5th suspect is waltzing away")

who did Jacobs say ".....is not a suspect, was never a suspect...")

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians do not like the Babylonian intrusion.
The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation



I want names.... :2brickwall: :2brickwall:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 24, 2008, 07:19:27 AM
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….
 

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one or two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing? ("who said the alibi played for van der sloot's....the 5th suspect is waltzing away")

who did Jacobs say ".....is not a suspect, was never a suspect...")

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians do not like the Babylonian intrusion.
The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation



LORENZO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 24, 2008, 07:20:08 AM
yes mum, looks like.......

gtg....time for work.....




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 07:23:49 AM
I posted links for Steve Croes and Lorenzo both.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 24, 2008, 07:24:34 AM
yes mum, looks like.......

gtg....time for work.....




BUT...I still need answers...Is Lorenzo the singing card, the 5th, DirtyHand, all of these and....where does this put Jacobs and...why did they arrest Lorenzo last year....and what did caps mean that he can't believe they did this????????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 07:28:33 AM
yes mum, looks like.......

gtg....time for work.....




BUT...I still need answers...Is Lorenzo the singing card, the 5th, DirtyHand, all of these and....where does this put Jacobs and...why did they arrest Lorenzo last year....and what did caps mean that he can't believe they did this????????


Where did it say Lorenzo played in a band? If Lorenzo is the 5th? Where is the evidence? What 2 cards?  Do you have idea Mum?  This is what I hate about  all this...everyone knows the answers without any proof...OMG!  I sound like Anna now. (no offense intended)  I need coffee!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 24, 2008, 07:33:25 AM
Lala's.... do you remember anything about that Picture of Lorenzo on Jacobs' wall? I know it was in Dave's book, but was wondering if it was like a 'wanted' poster, for lack of a better word? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 24, 2008, 07:39:00 AM
yes mum, looks like.......

gtg....time for work.....




BUT...I still need answers...Is Lorenzo the singing card, the 5th, DirtyHand, all of these and....where does this put Jacobs and...why did they arrest Lorenzo last year....and what did caps mean that he can't believe they did this????????


Where did it say Lorenzo played in a band? If Lorenzo is the 5th? Where is the evidence? What 2 cards?  Do you have idea Mum?  This is what I hate about  all this...everyone knows the answers without any proof...OMG!  I sound like Anna now. (no offense intended)  I need coffee!


I'm still trying to work out if it is a real band or if someone???? helped orchestrate a cover-up??? With whom....that I don't know.

Just read that Jacob's was put in place by van der Straaten, Tamikosmom said she had the info on that, but I guess forgot to post. She did say that it was sent to the family.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 07:41:15 AM
I am confused as to your Jacobs reference.  What have I missed in that regard?  Do you think he's Dirty Hand?  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 24, 2008, 07:55:18 AM
I am confused as to your Jacobs reference.  What have I missed in that regard?  Do you think he's Dirty Hand?  TIA


LOL...are you asking ME!!!!

I am thinking of him this morning because of Columbo's post about Lorenzo's picture and the recent references. Also the interviews that he was involved in.

I don't know if he's dirtyHand, the singing card, his Lordship or even an Arawak...LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 24, 2008, 08:10:57 AM
Lala's...looking for an old post of mine and found this...Will check the Log Timeline as to when the Kalpoe sister was questioned.

Quote from: igsigs on November 23, 2007, 08:45:03 AM

MumInOhio

No info available on whether or not Val had been questioned previously. Computer records show him being on-line around 3am that night, right before Joran says he got home.

He was sent to the States in early June05 - before the date of the younger Kalpoe sisters statement. That may indicate he was not questioned...at least during that time period.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 24, 2008, 08:30:05 AM
Lala's...I missed an important post of yours this morning...guess I wasn't paying attention....will be able to get back to you soon.

 ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 10:08:54 AM
Where is Capslock?  I have another question...not that he answers any of mine anyway.  Where did you get the idea that Lorenzo was dirty hand?  How does he fit in with being Arawak Dirty Hand?  Is he Aruban?  And all this time I thought he was Dutch too.  ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 10:11:42 AM
Lala's...I missed an important post of yours this morning...guess I wasn't paying attention....will be able to get back to you soon.

 ::MonkeyDance::


I don't make important posts...I just run my mouth.  I doubt anything I have ever posted could contribute anything of value to this case...I can hope.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 24, 2008, 10:24:27 AM
Lala's...I missed an important post of yours this morning...guess I wasn't paying attention....will be able to get back to you soon.

 ::MonkeyDance::


I don't make important posts...I just run my mouth.  I doubt anything I have ever posted could contribute anything of value to this case...I can hope.


LOL...I thought you'd left because I ignored your post...just wasn't able to keep up this morning and have a heap to do as well!!!!

I'm sure Lorenzo is Dutch and I think PI/PE even asked on the other thread if he was related to Rembrandt....and yes I googled it! LOL

Don't you just love that little guy dancing!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 10:40:45 AM
That little dancing monkey needs to be put out of his misery or mine...I am not sure which. LOL  (he also took away my fave smiley...yes, I noticed!)

All I remember about Lorenzo and Jacobs was that Dave asked or saw something about his name or photo being crossed out while in the police station.  Jacobs told him that he was not involved in this case...even though everyone on Aruba was saying he knew something or was involved including posters such as Arubagirl, AmericaninAruba, Checkme, and Native Lingo.  I am still on the fence as to his participation. BTW Shango never mentions Lorenzo by name, that post using his name is from Babalu.  Babalu spent as much time guessing as we do about Shango. LOL 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 24, 2008, 10:56:13 AM
I think my biggest problem is that I find 2 or 3 thing that 'fit', choose one, and it seems to be the wrong path...LOL

As you posted yesterday, Simian starts off with the 5th suspect and Shango goes with DirtyHand/Arawaks. Two different things, but both making Joran a scapegoat. And you can't just pick and choose, you have to make everything fit!

I think I need to go right back to the beginning, where I was a couple of weeks back. LOL

You can get your rolling eye smiley if you hit 'more'......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 11:08:50 AM
I think my biggest problem is that I find 2 or 3 thing that 'fit', choose one, and it seems to be the wrong path...LOL

As you posted yesterday, Simian starts off with the 5th suspect and Shango goes with DirtyHand/Arawaks. Two different things, but both making Joran a scapegoat. And you can't just pick and choose, you have to make everything fit!

I think I need to go right back to the beginning, where I was a couple of weeks back. LOL

You can get your rolling eye smiley if you hit 'more'......

I agree...we have been distracted once again.  So which one first? Simian or Shango?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 24, 2008, 11:22:16 AM
The horse before the cart, of course...Simian...plus my poor brain is not handling all those riddles!!!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: BTgirl on January 24, 2008, 12:21:49 PM
Hi CapsLockWizard. I don't post very often in the Shango/Simian thread, and I don't think we've met.

It sounds as if you know some very interesting stuff, and I would really love to hear more about what you know.

I've been impressed with the things you've said so far, but I'm not quite as good with interpreting the rhymes as some people are, so I'm hoping you can answer some questions for me. My first question is - do you think Lorenzo was directly involved in Natalee's death?

Thanks very much.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 24, 2008, 12:26:08 PM
Lala's...I thought that you may have posted this link and I can't find where I got it from this morning...Please read just a little way down....


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1097.0


 ::MonkeyEek::



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 01:14:02 PM
Lala's...I thought that you may have posted this link and I can't find where I got it from this morning...Please read just a little way down....


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1097.0


 ::MonkeyEek::



And I am looking for?  Help me here...I see many things Joran has said that makes you go hmmmmm. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 24, 2008, 01:18:43 PM
Lala's...I thought that you may have posted this link and I can't find where I got it from this morning...Please read just a little way down....


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1097.0


 ::MonkeyEek::



And I am looking for?  Help me here...I see many things Joran has said that makes you go hmmmmm. LOL


LOL...I was just coming back to tell you...it is the 4th post that Klaas made. All I will say is that is in one of the first 10 paragraphs....I know you will know what it is. Now where is my shocked smiley!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 24, 2008, 01:54:02 PM


Question :

Who came from Holland. was it he Mom of the Father slot.

Question : Who is the cowgirl that spread rummors to confuse the game?

almost done...

A small peek  summary:

MOB IN CASINO, PAPA SLOOT LOOSE AT THE GAME (BIG TIME). HE COULD NOT PAY THE BLUFF. THE SON WAS GOING TO BE SACRIFIED. HE HAD 10 DAY's TO COME UP WITH THE MONEY. HE WENT TO GET MONEY FROM HOLLAND BUT CAME EMPTY HAND. BUT ALSO CAME WITH A NEW PLAN.   USA MOB HoldS HIS SON   & HE WILL HOLDS SOMEONE FROM THE USA THAT IS IN THE HOTEL AS BARGAINING CHIP.

ALL WHILE THIS WAS GOING ON, USA GIRL MOM DID NOT ANSWER THE CALLS..SHE WAS NOT AT HOME. AND TIME WAS RUNNING OUT.

CASINO OWNER BREAK THE CHECKMATE AND THE MOB GOT PAID...THIS ACCTION LEAVE THE JUDGE AS A KIDNAPPER. AND THIS WILL LOOK BAD FOR ARUBA NATION.

SO HEN CAME TO ARUBA SHE KNEW ABOUT THE CALLS OF THE POSSIBLE KIDNAPPED.

SHE CAME AND WANT HER DAUGHTER AND HERE THIS FOR THE WORSE...


Back to my cryptology work.....




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 24, 2008, 02:11:00 PM
LALA: Sorry that I do not respond to your questions or post, it is so that I have 30 pages of this whole riddle spread out between 3 computer and it has all my brain circuits going all over the place while at the same time documenting my findings and building this text decoder key for all the monkeys.

My appology if I did not answer to some of your question.

It is almost there. Had to sleep for a while, more that 24 hrs. on the work.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 24, 2008, 02:17:07 PM


Question :

Who came from Holland. was it he Mom of the Father slot.

Question : Who is the cowgirl that spread rummors to confuse the game?

almost done...

A small peek  summary:

MOB IN CASINO, PAPA SLOOT LOOSE AT THE GAME (BIG TIME). HE COULD NOT PAY THE BLUFF. THE SON WAS GOING TO BE SACRIFIED. HE HAD 10 DAY's TO COME UP WITH THE MONEY. HE WENT TO GET MONEY FROM HOLLAND BUT CAME EMPTY HAND. BUT ALSO CAME WITH A NEW PLAN.   USA MOB HoldS HIS SON   & HE WILL HOLDS SOMEONE FROM THE USA THAT IS IN THE HOTEL AS BARGAINING CHIP.

ALL WHILE THIS WAS GOING ON, USA GIRL MOM DID NOT ANSWER THE CALLS..SHE WAS NOT AT HOME. AND TIME WAS RUNNING OUT.

CASINO OWNER BREAK THE CHECKMATE AND THE MOB GOT PAID...THIS ACCTION LEAVE THE JUDGE AS A KIDNAPPER. AND THIS WILL LOOK BAD FOR ARUBA NATION.

SO HEN CAME TO ARUBA SHE KNEW ABOUT THE CALLS OF THE POSSIBLE KIDNAPPED.

SHE CAME AND WANT HER DAUGHTER AND HERE THIS FOR THE WORSE...


Back to my cryptology work.....




Caps...we were told that the mother, father and two younger brothers were in The Netherlands. The PV's state that Paulus had to go take care of the youngest son. I don't even know anymore if the Mom went there.

The cowgirl...do you mean Julia Renfro...editor I think Aruba Today or something like that.

And I thought one of my theories was 'out there'! Would like to know how you came to these conclusions when you're done. Thanks Caps!

Lala's....'only David left the den alive'


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: ala_gunslinger on January 24, 2008, 02:38:15 PM
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….
 

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one or two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing? ("who said the alibi played for van der sloot's....the 5th suspect is waltzing away")

who did Jacobs say ".....is not a suspect, was never a suspect...")

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians do not like the Babylonian intrusion.
The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation



LORENZO

Didn't he move to Georgia?

Two words...

R O A D  T R I P!!!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 24, 2008, 02:42:23 PM

LALA: thanks for the cowgirl.

It is that the MOB had his son for not comming with the payment.

they put the siging beetle  in both house to make sure they did not talk to nobody..They were never alone.


The siging beetle where removed when they stage the search of the house a second time.

another note: we need the date that he came back to aruba... His son could not be in holland while this was going one. The other probably but not JvdS.. He was a pegg in this game.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 24, 2008, 02:52:07 PM

LALA: thanks for the cowgirl.

It is that the MOB had his son for not comming with the payment.

they put the siging beetle  in both house to make sure they did not talk to nobody..They were never alone.


The siging beetle where removed when they stage the search of the house a second time.

another note: we need the date that he came back to aruba... His son could not be in holland while this was going one. The other probably but not JvdS.. He was a pegg in this game.





Paulus was said to have returned the 29th...the Sunday, around 4 or 5, but he was in the casino that evening. Anita returned June 1st. Natalee disappeared the Monday morning after being in C&Cs on the 29th, Sunday. It has been rumored that Paulus made a quick trip to Florida shortly after Natalee vanished.

Gunslinger...hi...I think the Gottenbos' moved to Georgia and it has been rumored that Lorenzo went to Holland.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 04:19:47 PM
LALA: Sorry that I do not respond to your questions or post, it is so that I have 30 pages of this whole riddle spread out between 3 computer and it has all my brain circuits going all over the place while at the same time documenting my findings and building this text decoder key for all the monkeys.

My appology if I did not answer to some of your question.

It is almost there. Had to sleep for a while, more that 24 hrs. on the work.





Then go back and answer my questions.  There are many inconsistencies to your theory and they need to be addressed. TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 04:26:17 PM


Question :

Who came from Holland. was it he Mom of the Father slot.

Question : Who is the cowgirl that spread rummors to confuse the game?

almost done...

A small peek  summary:

MOB IN CASINO, PAPA SLOOT LOOSE AT THE GAME (BIG TIME). HE COULD NOT PAY THE BLUFF. THE SON WAS GOING TO BE SACRIFIED. HE HAD 10 DAY's TO COME UP WITH THE MONEY. HE WENT TO GET MONEY FROM HOLLAND BUT CAME EMPTY HAND. BUT ALSO CAME WITH A NEW PLAN.   USA MOB HoldS HIS SON   & HE WILL HOLDS SOMEONE FROM THE USA THAT IS IN THE HOTEL AS BARGAINING CHIP.

ALL WHILE THIS WAS GOING ON, USA GIRL MOM DID NOT ANSWER THE CALLS..SHE WAS NOT AT HOME. AND TIME WAS RUNNING OUT.

CASINO OWNER BREAK THE CHECKMATE AND THE MOB GOT PAID...THIS ACCTION LEAVE THE JUDGE AS A KIDNAPPER. AND THIS WILL LOOK BAD FOR ARUBA NATION.

SO HEN CAME TO ARUBA SHE KNEW ABOUT THE CALLS OF THE POSSIBLE KIDNAPPED.

SHE CAME AND WANT HER DAUGHTER AND HERE THIS FOR THE WORSE...


Back to my cryptology work.....




So are you saying that Beth knew about this mob connection?  And that she was arriving on Aruba knowing that Paulus was using her as bait or payment?  That is why she put kidnapped on the poster they printed? Judge was the kidnapper?  Paulus?  They were holding Joran or were going to kill Joran?  The mob had Joran or Lorenzo?  Paulus chose Natalee as a bargaining chip?  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 24, 2008, 05:36:14 PM
Here is the MOB link

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/10/10/palm-beach-county-florida-aruba-in-america-jorge-pesquera-tourism-at-all-cost/

It all make sense now


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 24, 2008, 05:38:19 PM

one must Google Arawak casino mob in Aruba



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 05:41:37 PM
Here is the MOB link

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/10/10/palm-beach-county-florida-aruba-in-america-jorge-pesquera-tourism-at-all-cost/

It all make sense now

I am glad you think so...now answer my questions....please! They are printed in red a few pages back.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 05:46:57 PM



I will make this easier for you:


CapsLock
Here a few questions for you, if you wouldn't mind clearing them up for me.  I am very confused over your interpretation.  My questions in red. TIA



Bringing this over from the NAH thread...easier to discuss here.

From CapsLockWizard:


Here is what I think has happen:

From the casino Joran and the Kalpoes went to C&C while the Casino worker (#5) was left working, #5 tried to off him self with an other worker, then leave the casino to go to this Party place. (the house) So you think the term "offed" is referring to getting off from work early?  I seem to remember a rumor that Guido took off from work early  that night.

#5 call Joran to meet at this party place. At the party place Natalee overdose on #5, Joran Waited outside at the Party Place gate outside and when the gates open, #5 come out and handed the body of Natalee to Joran. The Kalpoes where there since they have follows Joran from C&C and went waithing at the Dutch own Apartment with the Pool near Joran Home for Joran and the girl to return. Do you have any idea where this party took place and at who's house it was? Why would Joran take her to a party and not go in himself?  Is he just a patsy for someone else? I am confused here...were the Kalpoes at this house also?  Or do you mean the Kalpoes were waiting at Joran's apartment?  Did Joran drive to this house? How did he get there?  Was he paid to provide Natalee and who paid him? 

Joran drove to the Pool Apartment and it is here that they plan what to do with the body. meanwhile at the the pool they waited for the girl to come Back to life (but she never retain a heartbeat). So is this apartment Freddy's place? Was Freddy making a movie and the Kalpoes and Joran would have viewed it, but Natalee died instead? How did you get that from Simian's posts? Please explain.

The Apartment in question with the pool is just 5 min walk from Jorans his house.

Around the pool they deside to plan what to do and here is where Joran got cought in this web.  Are you saying the Kalpoes were the ones that decided about the HI lie?  Do you think they paid Steve Croes to provide an alibi? 

Question why does he lied for this person? Who is this Casino Worker? If he asked to get off that night from work, then he imust be a Dealer Worker or a Supervisor, Managers do not have to request off.  What does this person have over Joran that would cause him to lie and be caught up in all this mess?  Is this the reason that nothing has ever happened?  The power lies here...with Guido?

After this Joran at this time desided to despose of the body in Montana body of water. So you are saying Natalee's body is in the pond area that contains all the dead dogs and appliances?

And here is where he commided a crime with the help of the Kalpoes.

This is my enterpretacion from the Simian post.



So are you saying that Beth knew about this mob connection?  And that she was arriving on Aruba knowing that Paulus was using her as bait or payment?  That is why she put kidnapped on the poster they printed? Judge was the kidnapper?  Paulus?  They were holding Joran or were going to kill Joran?  The mob had Joran or Lorenzo?  Paulus chose Natalee as a bargaining chip? 

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Shock means well. He understands the Babylonians, but they don’t hold the hammer nor the block.
The alibi needs to be broken. The party-go-ers need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes. The house was dusted.

CapsLoc Trans:
The Aruba Top Investigator means well, He understands the Aruba Investigators but they can keep the Judge in Jail.
The Alibi Judge alibi need to be broken, the pressure must be put on who was there because they have seen what was going on. Pauls get out and everything was cleaned up.  Who is the top investigator?  Do you have a name?   


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 24, 2008, 08:18:45 PM


this i



I will make this easier for you:


CapsLock
Here a few questions for you, if you wouldn't mind clearing them up for me.  I am very confused over your interpretation.  My questions in red. TIA



Bringing this over from the NAH thread...easier to discuss here.

From CapsLockWizard:


Here is what I think has happen:

From the casino Joran and the Kalpoes went to C&C while the Casino worker (#5) was left working, #5 tried to off him self with an other worker, then leave the casino to go to this Party place. (the house) So you think the term "offed" is referring to getting off from work early?  I seem to remember a rumor that Guido took off from work early  that night.

#5 call Joran to meet at this party place. At the party place Natalee overdose on #5, Joran Waited outside at the Party Place gate outside and when the gates open, #5 come out and handed the body of Natalee to Joran. The Kalpoes where there since they have follows Joran from C&C and went waithing at the Dutch own Apartment with the Pool near Joran Home for Joran and the girl to return. Do you have any idea where this party took place and at who's house it was? Why would Joran take her to a party and not go in himself?  Is he just a patsy for someone else? I am confused here...were the Kalpoes at this house also?  Or do you mean the Kalpoes were waiting at Joran's apartment?  Did Joran drive to this house? How did he get there?  Was he paid to provide Natalee and who paid him? 

Joran drove to the Pool Apartment and it is here that they plan what to do with the body. meanwhile at the the pool they waited for the girl to come Back to life (but she never retain a heartbeat). So is this apartment Freddy's place? Was Freddy making a movie and the Kalpoes and Joran would have viewed it, but Natalee died instead? How did you get that from Simian's posts? Please explain.

The Apartment in question with the pool is just 5 min walk from Jorans his house.

Around the pool they deside to plan what to do and here is where Joran got cought in this web.  Are you saying the Kalpoes were the ones that decided about the HI lie?  Do you think they paid Steve Croes to provide an alibi? 

Question why does he lied for this person? Who is this Casino Worker? If he asked to get off that night from work, then he imust be a Dealer Worker or a Supervisor, Managers do not have to request off.  What does this person have over Joran that would cause him to lie and be caught up in all this mess?  Is this the reason that nothing has ever happened?  The power lies here...with Guido?

After this Joran at this time desided to despose of the body in Montana body of water. So you are saying Natalee's body is in the pond area that contains all the dead dogs and appliances?

And here is where he commided a crime with the help of the Kalpoes.

This is my enterpretacion from the Simian post.



So are you saying that Beth knew about this mob connection?  And that she was arriving on Aruba knowing that Paulus was using her as bait or payment?  That is why she put kidnapped on the poster they printed? Judge was the kidnapper?  Paulus?  They were holding Joran or were going to kill Joran?  The mob had Joran or Lorenzo?  Paulus chose Natalee as a bargaining chip? 

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Shock means well. He understands the Babylonians, but they don’t hold the hammer nor the block.
The alibi needs to be broken. The party-go-ers need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes. The house was dusted.

CapsLoc Trans:
The Aruba Top Investigator means well, He understands the Aruba Investigators but they can keep the Judge in Jail.
The Alibi Judge alibi need to be broken, the pressure must be put on who was there because they have seen what was going on. Pauls get out and everything was cleaned up.  Who is the top investigator?  Do you have a name?  


That was from the SIMIAN Riddle and he must have been there. Shango Riddle is about the whole event leading to the sacrified but do not go in detail like shango. Shango must be well connected, to know what has happend and why it happend. Shango do not state name of the place where the body must been drop only the dirt water in noord.

Simian do state the two place.

I my report to Klaasend and FBI, I have come to a precise location in noord based on pure research.



Question who is a CASINO MOB KING ? 

With this, he must have been there or know


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on January 24, 2008, 08:53:01 PM
Question who is a CASINO MOB KING ? 

Answer:  Posner?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 09:16:59 PM



Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Shock means well. He understands the Babylonians, but they don’t hold the hammer nor the block.
The alibi needs to be broken. The party-go-ers need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes. The house was dusted.

CapsLoc Trans:
The Aruba Top Investigator means well, He understands the Aruba Investigators but they can keep the Judge in Jail.
The Alibi Judge alibi need to be broken, the pressure must be put on who was there because they have seen what was going on. Pauls get out and everything was cleaned up.


Please explain to me how you decided who the Aruba Top Investigator was?  Where did you get that?  I do not see that in Simian's post.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: ala_gunslinger on January 24, 2008, 09:28:47 PM

LALA: thanks for the cowgirl.

It is that the MOB had his son for not comming with the payment.

they put the siging beetle  in both house to make sure they did not talk to nobody..They were never alone.


The siging beetle where removed when they stage the search of the house a second time.

another note: we need the date that he came back to aruba... His son could not be in holland while this was going one. The other probably but not JvdS.. He was a pegg in this game.





Paulus was said to have returned the 29th...the Sunday, around 4 or 5, but he was in the casino that evening. Anita returned June 1st. Natalee disappeared the Monday morning after being in C&Cs on the 29th, Sunday. It has been rumored that Paulus made a quick trip to Florida shortly after Natalee vanished.

Gunslinger...hi...I think the Gottenbos' moved to Georgia and it has been rumored that Lorenzo went to Holland.

Ahhh..

Thank you for the reply.

So WE are protecting THEM????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 24, 2008, 09:36:37 PM
TreatSurfers check this

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the MONEY, it does not exist.
doors to eden remain closed. ---> door to the TRUTH remain closed
The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the DUTCH BORN and 2 KALPOES.
But the other card is dirty.

Even if you play cards in the house of THE SLOOTS as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.
If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the HOLLOWAY’S will circle the wagons.

DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon.

Better to prepare the sacrifice quickly so the HOLLOWAY’S go home
….without the loot


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
There are many DirtyHands among the CASINO MOB, and so it has been for centuries…






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 09:57:39 PM
We are protecting who?  The Sloots?  The caisnos?  The mob?  Who?  I am lost.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 24, 2008, 10:04:16 PM

I need a name for an USA CASINO MOB BOS war planner Planner that is connected or have links to the FBI or DEA

No kiddnaper because no kidnap,
 
Babalú Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:26 pm
The kidnapper is not Aruban
Van Rijn can not be pressured
The FBI would close in on the whole operation
The Arubans are prepared to give somebody as a token culprit
They will not sacrifice Steve Croes



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 24, 2008, 10:15:03 PM

I need a name for an USA CASINO MOB BOS war planner Planner that is connected or have links to the FBI or DEA

No kiddnaper because no kidnap,
 
Babalú Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:26 pm
The kidnapper is not Aruban
Van Rijn can not be pressured
The FBI would close in on the whole operation
The Arubans are prepared to give somebody as a token culprit
They will not sacrifice Steve Croes





The head of the visibility team


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: casa on January 24, 2008, 10:15:31 PM

I need a name for an USA CASINO MOB BOS war planner Planner that is connected or have links to the FBI or DEA

No kiddnaper because no kidnap,
 
Babalú Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:26 pm
The kidnapper is not Aruban
Van Rijn can not be pressured
The FBI would close in on the whole operation
The Arubans are prepared to give somebody as a token culprit
They will not sacrifice Steve Croes

So you like others are blaming this on someone from the USA and absolving anyone from Aruba?  Where have we heard this before?  I admit this is a different approach though!




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 10:21:20 PM
I am still confused...you are saying that Paulus took Natalee because he needed a bargaining chip to protect Joran from a gambling debt? And that Joran is innocent in all this and it's all Paulus' fault, but Paulus had control over the LAW and nothing can be done? 

That Beth was told it was over a gambling debt and that the USA is protecting Aruba because it is all due to the mob in the USA.  That Lorenzo is the 5th suspect and also Dirty Hand?  That he is also Paulus' son and he is the one that took Natalee or the party that Joran carried her to was at his house?  How can you have Joran delivering her to a party and then say Paulus needed Natalee to pay a debt to protect Joran?  I must be confused...that sounds contradictory. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 24, 2008, 10:21:59 PM
CAPS:

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:05 pm
Dutch the west coast is busy…however, that road between the bushes is very hidden. Have taken girls there myself, but in cars. If you are on foot it would be so easy to hide in the mangroves. The fishermen’s huts. There are no streetlights there.

How come the “Black Team” was not aware is beyond me. They are all over in that area. At least they used to be.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:12 pm
The Black Team is a special force in Aruba that patrols amongst others beaches. Fully armed to the teeth, in black, with black hoods, with black SUV’s and ATV’s.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 24, 2008, 10:24:41 PM
I am still confused...you are saying that Paulus took Natalee because he needed a bargaining chip to protect Joran from a gambling debt? And that Joran is innocent in all this and it's all Paulus' fault, but Paulus had control over the LAW and nothing can be done? 

That Beth was told it was over a gambling debt and that the USA is protecting Aruba because it is all due to the mob in the USA.  That Lorenzo is the 5th suspect and also Dirty Hand?  That he is also Paulus' son and he is the one that took Natalee or the party that Joran carried her to was at his house?  How can you have Joran delivering her to a party and then say Paulus needed Natalee to pay a debt to protect Joran?  I must be confused...that sounds contradictory. 


Joran was the one who only played in free poker tournaments    ;)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 10:32:30 PM
Babalu is making fun of Shango here...nothing in this post at all...it's just Babalu teasing Shango because he is all over the place with his riddles...hmmm.

#  Shango on June 26th, 2005 9:19 pm

DirtyHand is not an Arawak

The singing card can not be played

The cowboys would circle the wagons

The arawaks are preparing the sacrifice

light the fires

the gods are talking
# Shango on June 26th, 2005 9:21 pm

The sacrificial offering will not be scapegoat
# Babalú on June 26th, 2005 9:25 pm

Shangoooooooo
# Babalú on June 26th, 2005 9:26 pm

The kidnapper is not Aruban

Van Rijn can not be pressured

The FBI would close in on the whole operation

The Arubans are prepared to give somebody as a token culprit

They will not sacrifice Paul


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: yapperz1 on January 24, 2008, 10:33:12 PM
I can buy Lorenzo being the 5th suspect BUT

1. Never heard that Lorenzo worked in a casino
2. Lorenzo used to be a DJ per some of the chatter early on
3. Did hear Lorenzo was born in The Netherlands & came to Aruba as a young boy.
(I am going from memory only on 2 & 3)

I am not so sure Paulus went with Anita & the 2 younger boys. Have heard he did & then he didn't.
I do believe Simian had inside info from ALE
I think Shockthemonkey may have been ALE

The only "mob boss" that jumps in my head is Posner


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 10:33:57 PM
This is the rest of the post...

Simian on June 26th, 2005 9:27 pm

The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ’cause the bird would fly away.

The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.
# Babalú on June 26th, 2005 9:27 pm

Correction

They will not sacrifice Steve Croes
# Compananzi on June 26th, 2005 9:27 pm

FYI, there appears a lot of concern for the release of Paulus, a previous comment of Jug Twit to have Anita arrested barely raised an eyebrow. MB student claim that the MSM always seem to take their statement out of context. Okay so now we have a situation where Paulus was brought in to clarify previous statement. Perhaps the Police saw the full unedited version of the taped interview? See where I am heading? Paulus could have elaborated on something but the taped version never came out or what ever you know? Well that or the Police is doing a tactical release of the suspect. There I was able to appease both camps.
# Shango on June 26th, 2005 9:30 pm

Who knows what song the elder will sing


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 10:37:29 PM
I can buy Lorenzo being the 5th suspect BUT

1. Never heard that Lorenzo worked in a casino
2. Lorenzo used to be a DJ per some of the chatter early on
3. Did hear Lorenzo was born in The Netherlands & came to Aruba as a young boy.
(I am going from memory only on 2 & 3)

I am not so sure Paulus went with Anita & the 2 younger boys. Have heard he did & then he didn't.
I do believe Simian had inside info from ALE
I think Shockthemonkey may have been ALE

The only "mob boss" that jumps in my head is Posner

But I had no idea that Shock was KJ, did you?  Isn't that what Caps is saying? He never answers me...so I will ask you.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 24, 2008, 10:40:07 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:43 pm
The fallen judge agreed to sing because he can hum any tune
He needs to sing for his son, or see the end of his babylonian offspring

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:49 pm
Elder needs to sing to preserve his lineage
To agree to remain silent is to agree not to hum any tune

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:22 pm
Because the fallen judge agreed, he can sing any song he wants
A poisonous siren in the halls of babylon
He will sing to keep doors open (hidden whispers, plans for the future-OMERTA), much to the cowboys distress

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
Who knows what song the elder will sing (????? pick one.......)
 

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl          (???)
the arawaks new the girl         (???....or....)
and the babylonians still know the girl     (???)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 24, 2008, 10:43:34 PM
One more little detail...if Paulus was there to see his sons get on the bus to school each day how could he have been in Holland?  That has always confused me.

I am glad we have this solved now...I can go back to my normal life.  Wonder how Merian Ernest fits in all this? 

What really gets me is we still don't know who Shango or Simian was?  Crap!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on January 24, 2008, 10:44:09 PM
I can buy Lorenzo being the 5th suspect BUT

1. Never heard that Lorenzo worked in a casino
2. Lorenzo used to be a DJ per some of the chatter early on
3. Did hear Lorenzo was born in The Netherlands & came to Aruba as a young boy.
(I am going from memory only on 2 & 3)

I am not so sure Paulus went with Anita & the 2 younger boys. Have heard he did & then he didn't.
I do believe Simian had inside info from ALE
I think Shockthemonkey may have been ALE

The only "mob boss" that jumps in my head is Posner

But I had no idea that Shock was KJ, did you?  Isn't that what Caps is saying? He never answers me...so I will ask you.

ShocktheMonkey was posting from around the same location as Shango  ::MonkeyWink::  ShocktheMonkey started posting on the front page of SM on June 16th with the nickname Vanessa.  Vanessa changed her nickname to ShocktheMonkey on June 25th.  I do not believe it's possible then that ShocktheMonkey was KJ.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 24, 2008, 10:44:57 PM

LALA IT STARTING TO TAKE FORM

THE CODES ARE SAVED

CHECK THIS

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks
The way is clouded for JORAN
Rules have changed, so has the maze
the way is lost for the pioneers who went to live among the indians
The flames are growing
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police; -->WHICH ONE??
to spare the teepees
Singing cards have lost their power
Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand
His lordship will bestow the title soon….
They will save the teepees and the DUTCH COURT,
but first
JORAN V/D SLOOT

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:30 pm
We need a sacrifice to appease the Arawaks and the FBI
Teepees already swaying in strong DUTCH BORN wind
House of Babylon does not want a sacrifice
They do not care about CASINO MOB Teepees
only wrath of HOLLOWAY’S

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:32 pm
JORAN V/D SLOOT is the correct food to appease the gods, arawaks, and HOLLOWAY’S
but the foundations of the house of THE SLOOTS will shake
even harder if CASINO MOB Dirty Hand is revealed


But babylonians live in teepees too
If the house of THE SLOOTS is to remain erect,
it must protect the babylonians who have
lived in teepees, among the arawaks, for a long time.
THE SLOOTS will agree to a sacrifice of newer
teepee dwellers to prevent the story of dirtyhand being made public
Dirtyhand scares arawaks too
JORAN will be the correct sacrifice to appease the gods and HOLLOWAY’S
HOLLOWAY’S will leave without loot

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:43 pm
Meetings with his lordship will reveal several mysteries
JORAN also knows the fires have been lit

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:48 pm
The simplicity of Occams Razor is often outweighed by
the complexity of maintaining factors in an elemental state

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:50 pm
The pain the sacrificial beast will feel depends on how
quickly the HOLLOWAY’S return to the fort.

ConcernedUK Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:51 pm
Does Shango liaise with Simian?



WHO IS THE POLICE  (VAN STRAATEN)?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 24, 2008, 10:48:47 PM
spare the police?

why did the girl owe money?

Jacobs (to Dave): "How much money do you have?"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 24, 2008, 10:52:50 PM

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make HOLLOWAY’S happy,
SLOOTS want to maintain integrity of Great House

Gods of the HOLLOWAY’S know there was a game in the great house,
and so DirtyHand was discovered

But JORAN will be offered before dirty hand sings
He will return to THE SLOOTS, broken but anonymous



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 24, 2008, 10:57:20 PM
spare the police?

why did the girl owe money?

Jacobs (to Dave): "How much money do you have?"

what do you mean?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 24, 2008, 11:14:29 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Why did the girl owe money?

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating
afraid to walk through the maze


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on January 25, 2008, 12:30:42 AM
CapsLockWizard;
I am intrigued by your decoding of the riddle(s).  I am certainly not as seasoned in the deciphering as some here and would never claim to be.  If I understand your interpretation correctly PVDS incurred a gambling debt that he could not pay, he had 10 days to settle the debt and JVDS was kept in Aruba while the family went to Holland to try to get the money.  When PVDS returned without the money, in order to free JVDS, they planned to trade Natalee to settle the debt.  Do you think that this was so she could be used to earn the money back for the mob such as in prostitution?  Or do you think that the "party" with her as the party favor for that night only would have settled the debt?  I guess what I really want to know is if you think her death was intentional or if "something bad happened" and the death was not planned.  If you don't think the death was intentional what do you think they would have done with her? And finally, what do you think would have happened if they had not used Natalee to settle the debt?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on January 25, 2008, 12:35:52 AM
CapsLockWizard,
I failed to say thank you in advance for answering any or all of my questions.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tylergal on January 25, 2008, 02:01:13 AM


Question :

Who came from Holland. was it he Mom of the Father slot.

Question : Who is the cowgirl that spread rummors to confuse the game?

almost done...

A small peek  summary:

MOB IN CASINO, PAPA SLOOT LOOSE AT THE GAME (BIG TIME). HE COULD NOT PAY THE BLUFF. THE SON WAS GOING TO BE SACRIFIED. HE HAD 10 DAY's TO COME UP WITH THE MONEY. HE WENT TO GET MONEY FROM HOLLAND BUT CAME EMPTY HAND. BUT ALSO CAME WITH A NEW PLAN.   USA MOB HoldS HIS SON   & HE WILL HOLDS SOMEONE FROM THE USA THAT IS IN THE HOTEL AS BARGAINING CHIP.

ALL WHILE THIS WAS GOING ON, USA GIRL MOM DID NOT ANSWER THE CALLS..SHE WAS NOT AT HOME. AND TIME WAS RUNNING OUT.

CASINO OWNER BREAK THE CHECKMATE AND THE MOB GOT PAID...THIS ACCTION LEAVE THE JUDGE AS A KIDNAPPER. AND THIS WILL LOOK BAD FOR ARUBA NATION.

SO HEN CAME TO ARUBA SHE KNEW ABOUT THE CALLS OF THE POSSIBLE KIDNAPPED.

SHE CAME AND WANT HER DAUGHTER AND HERE THIS FOR THE WORSE...


Back to my cryptology work.....




Caps...we were told that the mother, father and two younger brothers were in The Netherlands. The PV's state that Paulus had to go take care of the youngest son. I don't even know anymore if the Mom went there.

The cowgirl...do you mean Julia Renfro...editor I think Aruba Today or something like that.

And I thought one of my theories was 'out there'! Would like to know how you came to these conclusions when you're done. Thanks Caps!

Lala's....'only David left the den alive'

Absalom, Absalom.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 25, 2008, 04:23:01 AM
spare the police?

why did the girl owe money?

Jacobs (to Dave): "How much money do you have?"

what do you mean?


Morning Caps.....I think what COLUMBO is aying is this....when Natalee's father, Dave Holloway, arrived in Aruba the cop in charge, Dennis Jacobs, asked him right away 'How much money do you have?'. It has been thought that Jacobs wanted money to find Natalee.

We have also looked at van der Straaten and the Police Chief Ronnie Bernadino as the bad cops.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 25, 2008, 05:35:37 AM
After reading back, I have come to the conclusion that E.W. is DirtyHand!!!! :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 25, 2008, 12:25:26 PM

COLOMBO:

CAPS SAYS
THE CODEs ARE SAVED

HAVE SHAKE THE WIRES, MARY HAS MOVED, NOW IN DIFFRENT PLACE. THE BABYLONIAS HAVE PAVED THE ROAD.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:27 pm
The HOLLOWAY’S have only so much gold. The territory is rough. There are many secrets, but the EXTORTIONIST are helping.
The DUTCH COURT is open to all, but the DUTCH COURT is a maze to most.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on January 25, 2008, 12:42:37 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ze2SMAtYNA&feature=related

Leonard Cohen Bird on a Wire

Not the kind of wire than can be shaken.  The kind that limits freedom like a leash.

A wire than controls.  Or listens?

IMOO

.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 25, 2008, 01:06:50 PM

CAPSLOCKWIZARD SAYS:

HAVE SHAKEN THE WIRE, DIRTYHANDS CONSORT TO TOURIST HEAD, DIRTYHANDS IN POWERS HARBOUR.

CODES ARE SAVE, MOVING IN VERY DANGER ZONES.

DO NOT SEND POSSE, POSSE DO NOT HAVE POWERS ON INDIANS, SEND IN THE POSSE WITH POWERS TO RECOVER MARY.

 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 25, 2008, 01:10:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ze2SMAtYNA&feature=related

Leonard Cohen Bird on a Wire

Not the kind of wire than can be shaken.  The kind that limits freedom like a leash.

A wire than controls.  Or listens?

IMOO

.


Interesting concept, Anna! Thanks!

Caps....Have you decided who is DirtyHand? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 25, 2008, 01:18:54 PM
Caps...Sorry another question....is there an Albert who worked at the Red Sail with Koen? TIA...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 25, 2008, 01:35:41 PM
 ::MonkeyHaHa:: DH DWELS IN SAVANETA  ::MonkeyHaHa::DANGER SM WALLS HAVE EARS. ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 25, 2008, 01:41:26 PM
::MonkeyHaHa:: DH DWELS IN SAVANETA  ::MonkeyHaHa::DANGER SM WALLS HAVE EARS. ::MonkeyShocked::


Sorry Caps, but who else lives in Savaneta....I don't think you are talking about Lorenzo, though I have read that he is sort of scary and crazy.

What did you mean by Danger...walls have ears?...TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 25, 2008, 02:32:16 PM
Caps...Sorry another question....is there an Albert who worked at the Red Sail with Koen? TIA...


Sorry....this question should have been for jackb.....


Lala's...please check your mail....



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 25, 2008, 02:53:24 PM
Found this in a link that Columbo left the other day....still don't know what does or doesn't hold water, but this is a weird thing for Nadira or Satish to say to say. Remember she and Luis were questioned June 2nd and Luis again on the 18th.

This is from June 23rd CNN...

Satish Kalpoe to mom: 'We didn't do anything'

The mother of the Kalpoes said Thursday that one son had admitted he and his brother made up a cover story to protect Joran Van Der Sloot.

Nadira Ramirez told CNN she was permitted to visit son Satish Kalpoe at Aruba's prison within the past week. She stressed that the teen told her their story was not planned ahead of Holloway's disappearance, and she had no advance knowledge of it.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: ala_gunslinger on January 25, 2008, 03:05:45 PM
We are protecting who?  The Sloots?  The caisnos?  The mob?  Who?  I am lost.

Gottenbos


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 25, 2008, 03:12:37 PM
We are protecting who?  The Sloots?  The caisnos?  The mob?  Who?  I am lost.

Gottenbos


Hi gunslinger....Tyler always says that we get heaps of hits from the Netherlands whenever their name is mentioned.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on January 25, 2008, 03:20:28 PM
The Riddle does not look good...it is not good... By computers never fails.....something is wrong with this riddle... who is SHANGO?????

anyone knows?

You may know this:  Shango is the god of Justice who can only be called upon by the Priest of that religion.  He speaks to the priest alone.  Someone no doubt knows the priest and got the message to post.  Shango does not take sides, observes and tells what he sees, if anyone (i.e., the priest) slants toward the Aruban people (Arawaks) in protecting them, it would and does show up some.  As far as the criminals vs the victim, the story does not seem to favor either side.  Just answers to questions asked.

What strikes me strange (er) is only one name seemed to be used and that was Mary.  That leads me to believe Mary may have been the name of a ship or boat since she was not a virgin (a maiden??.)  Some people have added things in the message to make it appear it is NH they are talking about, or even hinting at it, but the slight changes are noticable if you can get the very original. 

Also DNA or XTC could be licence tags or one tag.  Who knows. It could be numbering on a boat.The message that computers would be factored in or blood groups seems out of the range of what the message would be for this ShangoWhen the priest
calls on Shango there will be repercussions, according to what I have read.  This Shango does not like to dip around in "worldly affairs,"  but since the priest called upon him, he must have to answer if the ritual is right. 

This is beyond the realm of what most people understand. 

Shango would not answer mortals (except the priest in the ritual) nor would he acknowledge Simian (the fake.) Simian was called a very bad name by Simian.  It should be in Wikipedia, the meaning.    That is all for now on this.    Jack Blue
 I do realize it seems these people (the perps) change names and even appearances by using the photo altering. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 25, 2008, 03:26:39 PM
Jackb...by photo altering are you referring to any one photo in particular? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 25, 2008, 04:14:58 PM

COLOMBO:

CAPS SAYS
THE CODEs ARE SAVED

HAVE SHAKE THE WIRES, MARY HAS MOVED, NOW IN DIFFRENT PLACE. THE BABYLONIAS HAVE PAVED THE ROAD.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:27 pm
The HOLLOWAY’S have only so much gold. The territory is rough. There are many secrets, but the EXTORTIONIST are helping.
The DUTCH COURT is open to all, but the DUTCH COURT is a maze to most.




Unless, you are the original Shango please speak in plain English.  I am weary of deciphering secret codes.  Tell us where this road that is now paved is located.  Point it out...where does it lead?  Where was she moved to? 

Have you read the Espionage posts?  I think you might find those riddles interesting also.  Did you look at the Merian Ernest posts too?  There is info in those as well. 

I have forgotten....did you say that the USA is protecting the Sloots or was that the Netherlands doing the protecting because of the mob? I am still trying to understand that post.  I am confused about Beth knowing all this...I must have read that wrong too.

How does Steve Croes fit in all this and where does the boat come in?  Who's boat was it?  What do you know about the Gottenbos being involved?  Do you think Charles Croes is involved in any of this cover up?  Does he gamble in those casinos too?  What are the high rollers? 

Do you still think Lorenzo was the 5th suspect?  Have you found out how he connected with Natalee in those first few days?  Did he frequent the casinos and we just didn't know about it?  Did any of her friends say they saw Lorenzo with her? I think that is what I thought you said...confused again.

Did you ever figure out who Arawak Dirty Hand is?  Who are the Arawaks in your theory?  Who are the  Babylonians? What about the Tribe?  Who are they, the elders or lions?  Is there a secret club on Aruba that we still don't know about?  More questions...no answers.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Helen Back on January 25, 2008, 04:16:01 PM
Found this in a link that Columbo left the other day....still don't know what does or doesn't hold water, but this is a weird thing for Nadira or Satish to say to say. Remember she and Luis were questioned June 2nd and Luis again on the 18th.

This is from June 23rd CNN...

Satish Kalpoe to mom: 'We didn't do anything'

The mother of the Kalpoes said Thursday that one son had admitted he and his brother made up a cover story to protect Joran Van Der Sloot.

Nadira Ramirez told CNN she was permitted to visit son Satish Kalpoe at Aruba's prison within the past week. She stressed that the teen told her their story was not planned ahead of Holloway's disappearance, and she had no advance knowledge of it.

 :shock:  HOLY SMOKE!  I missed that one!  Awesome catch!  WTF?????







Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 25, 2008, 04:17:38 PM
We are protecting who?  The Sloots?  The caisnos?  The mob?  Who?  I am lost.

Gottenbos

Why are we, as in the USA, protecting the Gottenbos?  What are your thoughts?  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Helen Back on January 25, 2008, 04:27:43 PM
We are protecting who?  The Sloots?  The caisnos?  The mob?  Who?  I am lost.

Gottenbos

Why are we, as in the USA, protecting the Gottenbos?  What are your thoughts?  TIA

can't speak for Gunslinger, but when the comment was made, the discussion was with regard to the Gottenbos relocation to Georgia, USA.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 25, 2008, 04:31:07 PM
Why would we protect them unless they turned evidence over to us...which I doubt since Sander has been back to Aruba since and is now in the Netherlands.  Not a good job of protection if you ask me...we know where they are. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Helen Back on January 25, 2008, 04:34:52 PM
Why would we protect them unless they turned evidence over to us...which I doubt since Sander has been back to Aruba since and is now in the Netherlands.  Not a good job of protection if you ask me...we know where they are. 

I took the comment as protection = just being in USA instead of Aruba



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 25, 2008, 04:40:25 PM
That makes sense...thanks.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 25, 2008, 05:16:16 PM

CAPSLOCKWIZARD USA RESIDENT ALIEN. XXX.XX.XXXX

THE SHANGO – RIDDDLE
CODEBREAKER CAPSLOCKWIZARD
READ ON YOUR OWN BUT DO NOT BLAME THE CODE BREAKER
5 more code to go.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A DUTCH BOY….

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
The last hope rests on the shoulders of the HOLLOWAY’S. Ten days, two down, eight to go.   --Here it is saying 10 days vacation 2 day already gone, 8 for final ACT.
The elder knows THE LAW in the DUTCH COURT too well. The SLOOTS are afraid they might not be able to stop him.
Don’t shake the wire, ‘cause the bird will fly away. ---> Do not make the call yet, otherwise the bird will not come.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one or two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing? --The Brother of Joran Made a gamble and lost, He has to come up with the Money.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians do not like the DUTCH BOY intrusion.
The DUTCH BOY card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….  -- The Mafia Boss did not like the Intrusion of the older brother.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Shock=Karen Jansen, means well. He understands the SLOOTS, but they don’t hold the hammer nor the block. -The tread is serious and the Dutch Investigaters could not hold Judge. The Sloot went to Holland to get money
The alibi needs to be broken. The party-go-ers need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes. The house was dusted.



Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Simian, why was the MONEY from the GAMBLERS CASINO not used to open the Sumerians Door ?   - Why did they not use the Casino Money to Pay off the MOB.  If the Holiday Casino Owner paid the MOB the whole thing would be over but…
They have become famished and Eden is beckoning….


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:26 pm
Simian, his lordship did not bring the expected MONEY
the door never existed
Eden is distant

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:27 pm
The HOLLOWAY’S have only so much gold. The territory is rough. There are many secrets, but the EXTORTIONIST are helping.
The DUTCH COURT is open to all, but the DUTCH COURT is a maze to most.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:30 pm
Simian, his lordship did not bring the MONEY for the EXTORTIONIST
So it will remain “HOLLOWAY’S and “ARUBA GOVERNMENT”
The posse was too late

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:31 pm
The SLOOTS don’t hold the hammer nor the block. They are running out of options.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:33 pm
Simian, His Lordship did not bring the MONEY found in the car, it did not exist
The arawaks can’t open the door
Hope lies with the HOLLOWAY’S,
but the posse was too late
Eden is still distant

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:37 pm
Why don’t the EXTORTIONIST to play the DUTCH BOY Card ?
The posse is far from the fort and the loot is gone
The ARUBA GoVERNMENT can’t count on the HOLLOWAY’S
The arawaks need to audition the singing card

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:40 pm
The MONEY does not exist
The EXTORTIONIST knew DUTCH BOY involvement would prove futile ---would be of no good.  Have to pretend of not knowing to achive the desire result.
That is why the HOLLOWAY’S left the fort and a searching with the indians

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:43 pm
The fallen judge agreed to sing because he can hum any tune
He needs to sing for his son, or see the end of his DUTCH BORN offspring

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:45 pm
Shango is not limited to any location, orixas are his messengers

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:49 pm
Elder needs to sing to preserve his lineage
To agree to remain silent is to agree not to hum any tune
The EXTORTIONIST are desperate, they fear for the tribe, they do not want war with the HOLLOWAY’S
But the loot remains hidden
And the EXTORTIONIST keep their singing card hidden as well
The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the EXTORTIONIST to play it, because everyone would hear, including the HOLLOWAY’S

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:57 pm
The EXTORTIONIST may not need to play the singing card
The HOLLOWAY’S won’t hear the music and the teepees will be safe
Wampum is needed as the doors closed on Eden

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:04 pm
The wire has been shaken. The bird has left.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:10 pm
The system is built so that innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:11 pm
The system is built so that the innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to thrown a case out.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
FBI must behave in ARUBA territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The EXTORIONIST keep the singing card
One singing DUTCH BOY and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The MONEY to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:14 pm
Simian your Dopple has resumed position
Bird on the wire - Executioner is on Target.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:16 pm
You must remember
The EXTORTIONIST placed singing beetles with the DUTCH BOY and the two KALPOES
They were never alone - This to make sure they don’t Talk to Nobody.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:22 pm
Because the fallen judge agreed, he can sing any song he wants
A poisonous siren in the halls of THE SLOOTS
He will sing to keep doors open, much to the HOLLOWAY’S distress

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:26 pm
The maze of Babylon is very difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent
The EXTORTIONIST cannot reveal their singing card
many teepees would be destroyed and the HOLLOWAY’S would get upset
the singing card is bad luck for wampum for many moons
So there must be some type of sacrifice
The gods are hungry, the HOLLOWAY’S are hungry
Great disruption in the halls of DUTCH BORN DUTCH COURT

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:29 pm
There will be sacrifice
Tribal elders worried
Bad wampum, many moons -Bad for the Economy For Many Months
Light the fires



Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:33 pm
EXTORTIONIST do not like DUTCH BOY musicians (Do not like the Joran Friends)
Everyone in camp hears poison music
Many teepees fall
New wars with THE SLOOTS
No Wampum, many moons -No Freedom For many Months
Light the Fires!

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:37 pm
What is an CASINO MOB.
To find answers, one must Google if smoke signals blowing in strong wind

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
EXTORTIONIST hold singing card from THE SLOOTS        --- EXTORCIONIST
There is also a trio. One DUTCH BOY. 2 KALPOES.
EXTORTIONIST can’t let DUTCH BORN Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.
Many teepees fall. No Wampum.
FBI eat Sacrifice. EXTORTIONIST eat sacrifice.
Dirty hand stays hidden, but all are well-fed.
FBI happy, but unrest in the halls of the DUTCH COURT
THE SLOOT owes the EXTORTIONIST!

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:50 pm
If DUTCH BOY Card sings, all will fill
Teepees and the house of THE SLOOTS
We must have a sacrifice
Hide dirty hand
Light the fires!

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:53 pm
If DUTCH BOY card sings ALL will fall
Teepees and the house of Babylon
If HOLLOWAY’S stay, after JORAN, everyone see dirty hand.
No Wampum, Many Moons.
Light the fires!


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:55 pm
If HOLLOWAY’S see dirty hand, many teepees fall. House of Babylon falls.
we must have a sacrifice to feed the HOLLOWAY’S.
they go back to the fort with no loot.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:58 pm
Halls of the house of THE SLOOTS may suddenly twist
to accomodate HOLLOWAY’S walking in the maze.
No loot, but many answers.
Better twisted hallways than fallen houses.
Many invisible spirits around CASINO MOB Fires. Many gods watching.
we must have a sacrifice.
Light the fires!

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:02 pm
Do not listen to JULIA RENFRO who cast shadows on the walls of doubt….
There will be a sacrifice.
The HOLLOWAY’S will be happy.
The house of Babylon won’t fall and crush the teepees
There will be a sacrifice
Soon many will see smoke signals
FBI will go back to fort
But first we need JORAN

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:04 pm
Prepare the fires.
We need a sacrifice
A DUTCH BORN beast. Young Lamb der Sloot

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:13 pm
arawaks are lighting the fire
babylonians have no hunger
HOLLOWAY’S want a sacrifice



Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks
The way is clouded for JORAN
Rules have changed, so has the maze
the way is lost for the pioneers who went to live among the indians
The flames are growing
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police; --WHICH ONE
to spare the teepees
Singing cards have lost their power
EXTORTIONIST worried about being caught with dirty hand
His lordship will bestow the title soon….
They will save the teepees and the DUTCH COURT,
but first
JORAN V/D SLOOT

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:30 pm
We need a sacrifice to appease the EXTORTIONIST and the FBI
Teepees already swaying in strong DUTCH BORN wind
House of Babylon does not want a sacrifice
They do not care about CASINO MOB Teepees
only wrath of HOLLOWAY’S

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:32 pm
JORAN V/D SLOOT is the correct food to appease the gods, arawaks, and HOLLOWAY’S
but the foundations of the house of THE SLOOTS will shake
even harder if CASINO MOB Dirty Hand is revealed

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:39 pm
Every tribe has bad Indians
Every fort has bad HOLLOWAY’S
If sirens sing a poison song, all will get sick
EXTORTIONIST and HOLLOWAY’S working well
EXTORTIONIST fear wrath of HOLLOWAY’S for DirtyHand
But babylonians live in teepees too
If the house of THE SLOOTS is to remain erect,
it must protect the babylonians who have
lived in teepees, among the arawaks, for a long time.
THE SLOOTS will agree to a sacrifice of newer
teepee dwellers to prevent the story of dirtyhand being made public
Dirtyhand scares arawaks too
JORAN will be the correct sacrifice to appease the gods and HOLLOWAY’S
HOLLOWAY’S will leave without loot

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:43 pm
Meetings with his lordship will reveal several mysteries
JORAN also knows the fires have been lit

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:48 pm
The simplicity of Occams Razor is often outweighed by
the complexity of maintaining factors in an elemental state

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:50 pm
The pain the sacrificial beast will feel depends on how
quickly the HOLLOWAY’S return to the fort.

ConcernedUK Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:51 pm
Does Shango liaise with Simian?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:54 pm
The EXTORTIONIST are not going to sacrifice a scapegoat
Babylon needs to allow one sacrifice to keep DirtyHand hidden
Babylon scared of DirtyHand
EXTORTIONIST scared of DirtyHand
If sacrifice is made, teepees are safe, villagers and HOLLOWAY’S happy
If DirtyHand discovered, House of Babylon falls, Teepees crushed under great house

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
EXTORTIONIST want to make HOLLOWAY’S happy,
SLOOTS want to maintain integrity of Great House
Gods of the HOLLOWAY’S know there was a game in the great house,
and so DirtyHand was discovered
But JORAN will be offered before dirty hand sings
He will return to THE SLOOTS, broken but anonymous

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:00 pm
arawaks and babylonians often fight, but this is
kept from the HOLLOWAY’S as it can affect wampum for many moons.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:02 pm
The babylonians are to blame.
The arawaks were worried about teepees and the HOLLOWAY’S.
They did not bring DirtyHand into the Tribe!
He will go back to THE SLOOTS broken, after JORAN is eaten

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:04 pm
If DirtyHand sings, sacrifice will still be eaten.
But there will be many more people at the feast, and the HOLLOWAY’S would resent the EXTORTIONIST for GAMBLERS interference.


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the MONEY, it does not exist.
doors to eden remain closed. - door to the TRUTH remain closed
The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the DUTCH BORN and 2 KALPOES.
But the other card is dirty.
Even if you play cards in the house of THE SLOOTS as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.
If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the HOLLOWAY’S will circle the wagons.
DirtyHand can destroy the EXTORTIONIST and Babylon.
Better to prepare JORAN quickly so the HOLLOWAY’S go home
….without the loot

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
There are many DirtyHands among the CASINO MOB, and so it has been for centuries…

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:28 pm
All preceding stated is verifiable
DirtyHand is well known
there will be a sacrifice
the gods have been talking
the fires have been lit
the HOLLOWAY’S will go back to the fort without the loot
that is why they are preparing JORAN
All fear DirtyHand
EXTORTIONIST and THE SLOOTS
I must go feed the messengers

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:30 pm
Shango is not a Simian Doppleganger and has his own messengers

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be JORAN for the EXTORTIONIST and the HOLLOWAY’S.
All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat.
The gods are talking
DirtyHand is alive and well

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:06 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into Babylon on his 12:31 A.M. post

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:25 pm
The EXTORTIONIST want the truth to come out
As long as DirtyHand is not found
Aruba is preserved and Babylon will pay the price  --- Who pay the Price 3Million
the gods know that the blame lies on SLOOTS
the HOLLOWAY’S will go back to the fort without the loot

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:27 pm
DirtyHand and the fallen judge may not be crucified
the gods are talking

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
DirtyHand is not an CASINO MOB
The singing card can not be played
The HOLLOWAY’S would circle the wagons
The arawaks are preparing JORAN
light the fires
the gods are talking

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:21 pm
The sacrificial offering will not be scapegoat


Babalú Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:26 pm
The kidnapper is not Aruban
Van Rijn can not be pressured
The FBI would close in on the whole operation
The Arubans are prepared to give somebody as a token culprit
They will not sacrifice Steve Croes

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused.
The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away.
The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The SLOOTS knows what happened, but they are up in arms.
The GAMBLERS knew the girl.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
Who knows what song the elder will sing

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl
the arawaks new the girl
and the babylonians still know the girl

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve THE SLOOTS
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:34 pm
the struggle between the babylonians and the arawaks still remains hidden
the arawaks awaited the MONEY
his lordship said no
the door to eden remains closed
they are preparing the fire

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an CASINO MOB
Many pioneers have settled with the tribe

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:36 pm
All that the gamblers knew was written down.
They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Did the babylonians like to make movies?
From the tears, a new river will spring forth….

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The boy told the Hindus that he didn’t need their help anymore.
This was in the small hours. The confrontation was brutal.
So who heeded his call? Who switched places?
People…the bloodied, swollen tongue. The boy’s fear runs deep.
They accuse him to be Bifrons. (Bifrons = demon /monster)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The card of THE SLOOT was already played
if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the CASINO MOB Nation
the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made
Some elders of the game, not just of THE SLOOT’S walk in older circles
HOLLOWAY’S hear the singing, but the words are not understood
The gods and the babylonians are worried about the HOLLOWAY’S response

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:51 pm
The 46th spirit does not walk the same circle as the elders, this shall be his downfall   -- How old is Beth Twitty

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are.
The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew he girl.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Tribe knows all of the players, even the elders of the inner circle


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:55 pm
DirtyHand walks with the elders
Babylon knows

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 9:57 pm
The HOLLOWAY’S hear the singing but don’t understand the words

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the SLOOTS  that provided escort after the 2 KALPOES left

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
EXTORTINIST often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:03 pm
The alibi needs to be broken. The dogs have pouches on their feet. They are checking the dirty waters in Noord.
The SLOOTS know what the girl did earlier in the week.
Therein lies the motive.
The third act will played soon, but the boy is not Ajax.Ajax=Greek hero
He is too afraid to pull off such a feat. commit suicide as Ajax did

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon?
DirtyHand knows, this is his Power
there will be 46 sacrifices

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:08 pm
The 46th will pay for the children of the Elders

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:13 pm
DirtyHand walks in ALL houses
houses of the EXTORTIONIST, and houses of Rave
He can break the alibi


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:16 pm
Mary was not a Virgin
The EXTORTIONIST know
The HOLLOWAY’S know
DirtyHand can break the Alibi, he walks all circles
The Simian knows this

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
If the Alibi is broken by DirtyHand the walls of Babylon will shake

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:23 pm
Old treaties between the SLOOTS and the EXTORTIONIST
were maintained until the gods heard
Babylon now fears reprisals
the fires are lit
there will be 46 sacrifices

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:24 pm
The boy is no Ajax. He is too afraid of the consequences.
He doesn’t want to be made a cafone. cafone=embarrasment to oneself or others
The third act needs to be played and the HOLLOWAY’S will be heroes.
This is all a “lugubrious game” to them. Painiting By Dahli
They were all at the party and all of them are turning their heads.
One of them needs to be pinched. Pinched=brought in and questioned

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:26 pm
The Simian only speaks for himself.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon
the girl knew this
Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.
But not to satiate desire.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Why did the girl owe money?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon
He holds the real MONEY
The EXTORTIONIST fear his exposure
The house of THE SLOOT’S would tumble down on the teepees of the EXTORTIONIST
DirtyHand knows the HOLLOWAY’S will leave lootless. --without Natalee
He can break the alibi

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
even after a daughter gives birth to a grandchild,
the father of the new mother will still claim his daughter is a virgin
All who enter the damned corridors of the houses of Babylon
know the dangers that await
But the knowledge that they are forbidden is what makes them so pleasurable

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
All who enter the damned corridors of the houses of Babylon
know the dangers that await

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Coverups begin with elders and the founders of the houses of Babylon
Not the minions
DirtyHand knows this

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:50 pm
Are insects conned into entering Venus Flytraps?

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
The elder agreed to speak, but he he loves the boy too much.
The knows THE LAW of the DUTCH COURT too well. So the SLOOTS must
make sure the check mate is iron-clad.
Something rotten from The Hague will have to make the third act play out.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the MONEY
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, THE SLOOT’S will fall on the arawak nation

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:56 pm
The Simian knows his Lordship did not have MONEY to open the door to eden
the answer lies with the CASINO MOB Nation

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:59 pm
The package is still due.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:01 pm
If the door to eden is to be opened with that MONEY, it will be tomorrow
or forever remained closed

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:09 pm
The whisperer is on the line. The SLOOTS know what happened, but their hands are tied. They do not own the hammer nor the block.
The owner of the hammer and the block will never carry the package from the Hague. The trias works infallibly.   
The party-go-ers need to be pinched, but no one wants to be the cafone. Including the boy. Too much is at stake and he is no Ajax. He is biting his tongue so he won’t be able to speak. So afraid he is.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:12 pm
Even Flying Birds Sing
If the MONEY does not arrive tomorrow, that door to Eden will remain closed
I must feed the messengers

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:19 pm
The Simian asks that his words not be confused with anyone else’s.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:41 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into THE SLOOT’S on his 12:31 A.M. Post
DirtyHand is alive

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:46 pm
Shango said the MONEY to the Hague did not exist
that door to eden remains closed
until the house with the path
But not of gold
is entered

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the GAMBLERS, the EXTORTIONIST and is consort to the fallen elder
The gods are talking

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:57 pm
Outsiders brought into the CASINO MOB tribe walk in many circles, nameless



Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:59 pm
DirtyHand can bring down all houses
DirtyHand is the MONEY
His reach is long
He walks in all circles
consort to all, except for the gods
He knows JORAN is not responsible

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Of whom is the young DUTCH BOY afraid?
Why won’t he talk?

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:05 pm
The dice throwers know
the maze of the rave
and the fly that entered the trap
DirtyHand is the MONEY
He walks in many circles

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:06 pm
Young SLOOTS and KALPOES do not build sand castles

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:09 pm
Young SLOOTS and KALPOES do not build sand castles
DirtyHand knows this
Children of the Elders play in the maze,
but DirtyHand is afraid to rave

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:29 pm
SLOOTS and KALPOES do not play with sandcastles
Follow the music!
Mary who was not a Virgin entered the maze to discover it’s secrets
The lamb is scared
The fires are lit
But now the lamb is a goat


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll
ask the men who play dice and “roll”

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:32 pm
THE DRAX SCORES

drax Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
Young SLOOTS  and KALPOES do not build sand castles

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Follow the music

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED



Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
Mary ROLLED through the Maze
There is more than one house of music
the Lamb is a Scapegoat

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:42 pm
The Lamb returned to the fold
Mary Rolled
And the lions played

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
Windows looking onto Babylon are being opened by the ThreadSurfers



Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze
He knows of the forbidden fruit
and the gardeners

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open?
Why hasn’t an CASINO MOB probed it’s fetid depths.
Tell the FBI!
The EXTORTIONIST are hiding the path to the Maze for the SLOOTS.



Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:57 pm
All know of the music
beckoning lost souls
to enter the seven levels of inferno
who gave Mary the poison wine of Bacchus?
Enter the Maze.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:01 pm
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:13 pm
DirtyHand does not play with the lions
but he has entered the maze
the lamb is a scapegoat
DirtyHand knows
So does the Elder

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Follow the music
into the maze
the lions know they are being stalked
the gamblers and other Rollers talk
tell the HOLLOWAY’S!

Shango Says:June 27th, 2005 at 11:26 pm
The EXTORTIONIST will not enter the maze unless the HOLLOWAY’S refuse the peace pipe
Follow the music,
the lions are not tame
DirtyHand knows,
so does the elder



Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:29 pm
Some windows overlooking Babylon have been opened
The HOLLOWAY’S need to find the right path,
but they can’t hear the music.
The EXTORTIONIST know
Stupid FBI with CASINO MOB Guides
FBI don’t read smoke signals,
they must enter the maze!
Shango needs to feed the messengers. The Gods are talking.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating
afraid to walk through the maze
why don’t the arawaks ambush the lions?
The HOLLOWAY’S don’t know.
DirtyHand knows, but is afraid of the CASINO MOB Nation
The gods are talking

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:48 pm
The Simian was incorrect about the package from the Hague
I told the Simian, but the Simian would not listen
The simian is not a simian, but an austrolopithecus

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:52 pm
Threadsurfers on other beaches are oblivious to the Maze and the lions
without exposure, the arawaks will deceive the HOLLOWAY’S
they will leave without loot

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:56 pm
Shango is the god of justice
alive in many forms
he who speaks through Oxum through lightning
and himself through thunder
father of the violent dance
diviner of secrets of the seven levels of inferno
bound to truth even as it burns
so that justice may be brought.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:59 pm
Only those who cRave music go into the Maze

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:04 am
The gods of Babylon have orchested the refrain for the CASINO MOB choir
the music which holds the answers lies within the maze
the HOLLOWAY’S will smile sweetly as the chorus sings
backs turned to the maze
never hearing a single note
from the poison song

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:11 am
All the EXTORTIONIST  know the Maze which plays the poison songs

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:14 am
How those innocent young flies enter the trap with honey laden notes

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:19 am
Shango must leave to feed the messengers
The gods are talking

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation
meet, under cover of delusion.
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.
Tell the HOLLOWAY’S!

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:28 am
Not all lions leave their den

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:34 am
That which is hidden shan’t be found in the light

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:37 am
Yliana and Subdude have both opened windows which look into the heart of THE SLOOT’S
do not stray from your paths
you hold the MONEY in hand

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:39 am
The threadsurfers are opening the door to THE SLOOT’S
be careful of the lions
DirtyHand does not have them tamed
but he can enter the den
tell the HOLLOWAY’S

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:11 am
See Subdude / Iliana 12:34

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:32 am
For the doubters: You do not need to see a grain of sand in your eye to know it is there

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:43 am
The Simian has a handicap of 12.

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:52 am
The Simian says that The Simian only reports developments ahead of time. The Simian thinks was is going on is shameless. Playing with feelings.
Th Simian’s umbilical is buried close to the heart of the island. NOBODY EVER try to put us down. The Simian hates what he has been reading.
All things must pass.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:55 am
Find the music
Only David left the den alive

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:27 am
Crypticism leads to tributaries of thought which would not usually leave the MainStream

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:29 am
Babylon is Falling
The CASINO MOB teepees will be crushed
will they sacrifice the Lamb or the Lion
to make the HOLLOWAY’S smile

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:39 am
The arawaks must hunt the lions
in the place of darkness
house of secrets

edited to add what was missing :

# Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am

The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the HOLLOWAY’S

DirtyHand knows

Simian knows

The Simian stated for 2 days, the MONEY would come from the hague the next day

Shango said no two times

Is Simian a DirtyHand too

Has the Simian played with the lions

in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes

where the innocent flies are lured?

Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals?

Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno,

not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!
# Shango Says:

June 30th, 2005 at 1:49 am

All of Shango’s information comes from the higher power, Olorum

Shango has not danced with the lions, nor EXTORTIONIST,and does not keep their company

Eyes of god may look from afar with great acuity.

The resolution to find Mary lies with the CASINO MOB Nation

Dirty Hand has bound the CASINO MOB Nation with DUTCH BOY Rope

The Lamb and the two KALPOES whisper in the dark,

while the lions pace silently in the bush.

Dirty Hand is the link!

The lamb, the KALPOES, the elder whispering, exiting like theives in the night, clothed with invisible armor

If Dirty Hand falls, so does Babylon, but too, the CASINO MOB Nation shall suffer.

Threadsurfers listen!

The lamb shall run anew in virgin fields, cropping sweet grass which should remain untouched.

The Lamb has sins, but the lions have sharper teeth.

A new MONEY must be found to open unknown doors.

The first concern of the CASINO MOP nation is wampum.

But unseen tides pull DUTCH BORN seas through CASINO MOB Moats, bittering the waters.

DirtyHand and the Lions must see the light of CASINO MOB Day, or forever walk in plentiful fields.

The dead shall eternally sleep if a clamour is not made.

Lamb and the Elder are stepping stones into the fetid pool of deception.

The rule of the CASINO MOB King is the Final word.

DirtyHand has fouled the air for all nearby, but the CASINO MOB Nation will claim DUTCH BOY Authority prevents them from hunting Lions, and DirtyHand.

But the CASINO MOB king controls destiny of all. The CASINO MOB king has DirtyHands and DirtyFeet. If he is to reign anew, he cannot be soiled more.

The babylonians have ruled the CASINO MOB Nation through deception and stealth, and their charges, the EXTORTIONIST, speak now with the same forked tongue, on behalf of their king.

The gift the HOLLOWAY’S ask of the king of the CASINO MOB Nation is a mere trifle.

All ye who sing in the cyber-chorus lower your voices not!

It has been proven that the lamb, the KALPOES, and the elders are not the breach in CASINO MOB Armour!

Let us hunt Lions, The King, and Dirty Hand.

The lions pace silently in the bush, while the king seeks pleasures with his concubines.

Threadsurfers! What is sought is not hidden.

The Lamb and the elder are not the keystone in the Arch of Corruption.

Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid CASINO MOB King who wishes to blame the babylonians for the behaviour of lowly minions.

If the head of the beast is in plain view it is folly to attack protected flanks.

Threadsurfers, DirtyHand is more vulnerable than the CASINO MOB King and your lances should point in his direction.

He is the weak link, if he tumbles, all fall with him….. The lamb, the KALPOES, the elder

Shango looks from afar but speaks with truth. He does not converse with the Simian, or any other worldly sources, and attempts to bring direction to speculation

I must feed the messengers

The gods are talking
# Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:11 am

All Secrets are hidden in Plain View
# Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:13 am

The EXTORTIONIST make the HOLLOWAY’S dance so the smoke signals are lost in the wind

How can one hunt for lions without a local guide?

How can one hunt for lions with fishing gear?

DirtyHand still commands CASINO MOB war parties, confusing outlanders…

Time is the enemy of the HOLLOWAY’S

and friend to the EXTORTIONIST, the SLOOTS, and the hunted Jungle beasts
# Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:26 am

In your senseless rage you wave your sword recklessly

as such you would sever the limb even of a defender of the faith

If a bird whispers an evil secret, the listener is not the sinner!

Not all messages come from a terrestrial origin.

Believe.

When olorum speaks, lesser gods listen but do not ask how it is they hear






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 25, 2008, 05:30:58 PM

TEXT ARE BEEING UPDATE

SHAKED THE WIRES, PRIKICHI SING......

NH IN NEW PALACE IN SAVANETA HOUSE WITH WHITE PICKUP
THE NEW PALACE HAVE NEW ASPHALTE ENTRANCE

COME AND GET MARY BUT BRING POSSE COMITATUS EXEMPT

Klaasend:, LALA: ZIPPO
 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 25, 2008, 05:45:52 PM
So Shockthemonkey was really Karen Janssen?  WOW!
Lorenzo really is Joran's brother?  WOW!
Julia Renfro was the cowgirl?  WOW!
The Holloway's were the cowboys? WOW!
The was the MONEY? WOW!
The Holloways knew there was an extortionist? WOW!
Lorenzo made the bet? WOW!
The Arawaks were the extortionists? WOW!
The extortionists and the Holloways were working together?  WOW!

Well, I am about WOWED out now.  :roll:

Still no answers...still no proof...



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 25, 2008, 05:48:19 PM

TEXT ARE BEEING UPDATE

SHAKED THE WIRES, PRIKICHI SING......

NH IN NEW PALACE IN SAVANETA HOUSE WITH WHITE PICKUP
THE NEW PALACE HAVE NEW ASPHALTE ENTRANCE

COME AND GET MARY BUT BRING POSSE COMITATUS EXEMPT

Klaasend:, LALA: ZIPPO
 




Sorry...one more WOW!  So Natalee is buried in a house in Savaneta...not mentioning names here...there is a white pickup there?  A new paved road too?  WOW!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 25, 2008, 05:50:51 PM
Don't get me wrong...I would love for this to be true so there could be a chance to recover this precious child.  Maybe the FBI could go take a look at this place....again.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 25, 2008, 05:56:30 PM

DECODER BOOK ALMOST READY BUT FEAR DANGER.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 25, 2008, 06:00:57 PM

FBI NO POWERS

POSSE COM.....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 25, 2008, 06:05:30 PM


MONKEYS:

Babylons also Arawaks also read SM


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on January 25, 2008, 06:10:33 PM


MONKEYS:

Babylons also Arawaks also read SM

This is something understandable, yes.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on January 25, 2008, 06:20:22 PM


MONKEYS:

Babylons also Arawaks also read SM

Now, I finally understand something and agree.  Don't worry about them reading.  I don't think they'll get the message.  If they do, I hope they post.   ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on January 25, 2008, 06:22:24 PM
2 NJSons

Didn't see your post.  Glad someone else might be a tad lost reading this thread.  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on January 25, 2008, 06:42:19 PM
2 NJSons

Didn't see your post.  Glad someone else might be a tad lost reading this thread.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thinking language adds to the mix.  One of our mainland babylons had a fire, today....wonder if that will factor in? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 25, 2008, 06:51:04 PM


MONKEYS:

Babylons also Arawaks also read SM

Finally!  This I understand...the SLOOTS and ARUBAN GOVERNMENT also read Scared Monkeys.   Whew!  Not as stupid as I thought I was.   :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on January 25, 2008, 07:28:20 PM

TEXT ARE BEEING UPDATE

SHAKED THE WIRES, PRIKICHI SING......

NH IN NEW PALACE IN SAVANETA HOUSE WITH WHITE PICKUP
THE NEW PALACE HAVE NEW ASPHALTE ENTRANCE

COME AND GET MARY BUT BRING POSSE COMITATUS EXEMPT

Klaasend:, LALA: ZIPPO
 





Posse Comitatus Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Coast Guard is exempt from the Posse Comitatus Act. ... 1385 - Use of Army and Air Force as Posse Comitatus ... THE POSSE COMITATUS ACT: A PRINCIPLE IN ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act) -


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 25, 2008, 07:36:16 PM
Well, if Natalee is buried at this Savaneta house with the white pickup and paved road...someone needs to be there looking for her.  And I mean now...not weeks from now...as Anna would say...dig up the pool...in this case...dig up the driveway!  Dig up the driveway!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 25, 2008, 08:07:29 PM

TEXT ARE BEEING UPDATE

SHAKED THE WIRES, PRIKICHI SING......

NH IN NEW PALACE IN SAVANETA HOUSE WITH WHITE PICKUP
THE NEW PALACE HAVE NEW ASPHALTE ENTRANCE

COME AND GET MARY BUT BRING POSSE COMITATUS EXEMPT

Klaasend:, LALA: ZIPPO
 





Posse Comitatus Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Coast Guard is exempt from the Posse Comitatus Act. ... 1385 - Use of Army and Air Force as Posse Comitatus ... THE POSSE COMITATUS ACT: A PRINCIPLE IN ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act) -


Thanks Texasmom....not sure why we would need the Coastguard to dig up a driveway in Saveneta though....

Exclusion Applicable to U.S. Coast GuardSee the Law Enforcement Detachments and Missions of the United States Coast Guard for more information on U.S. Coast Guard law enforcement activities

Although it is a military force, the United States Coast Guard, which operates under the Department of Homeland Security, is not covered by the Posse Comitatus Act. The Coast Guard enforces U.S. laws, even when operating as a service for the Navy.

In December 1981 additional laws were enacted clarifying permissible military assistance to civilian law enforcement agencies and the Coast Guard especially in combating drug smuggling into the United States. Posse Comitatus clarifications emphasize supportive and technical assistance (e.g., use of facilities, vessels, aircraft, intelligence, tech aid, surveillance) while generally prohibiting direct participation of Department of Defense personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search, seizure, and arrests). For example, a US Navy vessel may be used to track, follow and stop a vessel suspected of drug smuggling, but a Coast Guard Law Enforcement Detachments (LEDETS) aboard the Navy vessel would perform the actual boarding and, if needed, arrest the crew.



Caps.....Prikichi.....bird or the place TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on January 25, 2008, 09:25:40 PM


MONKEYS:

Babylons also Arawaks also read SM

Very true


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 25, 2008, 11:39:28 PM


Monkeys:

Need to know who was giong to hold the title to the Ritz Carlton

this mistery also envolve the opening of the Ritz Carlton and Casino.

Help need feetback



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on January 25, 2008, 11:48:28 PM


Monkeys:

Need to know who was giong to hold the title to the Ritz Carlton

this mistery also envolve the opening of the Ritz Carlton and Casino.

Help need feetback



Marriott Group:

http://www.aruba.com/news/hotels/the-marriott-group-likely-to-develop-and-operate-the-ritz-carlton-aruba/


and backing out of deal:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/07/11/ritz-carlton-to-aruba-no-incentives-no-deal-who-calls-the-shots-in-aruba/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 25, 2008, 11:50:11 PM
Who works at THE NEWS?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on January 25, 2008, 11:54:36 PM
ORANJESTAD-It is official and approved, Ritz Carlton will be operational in
Aruba in 2008. This comes after 3 years of negotiations between
Bazarian International Financial Associates the representatives of Ritz
Carlton and the government of Aruba. The government of Aruba granted
Ritz Carlton attractive incentives that include exemption of import duties......


http://www.aruba-bb.com/viewtopic.php?t=25703&sid=74e4f0d4a948488623ef07b5157d09c7#275729



Do you have a sister named jenna??


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 26, 2008, 12:16:19 AM

ORANJESTAD-It is official and approved, Ritz Carlton will be operational in
Aruba in 2008. This comes after 3 years of negotiations between
Bazarian International Financial Associates the representatives of Ritz
Carlton and the government of Aruba. The government of Aruba granted
Ritz Carlton attractive incentives that include exemption of import duties......


http://www.aruba-bb.com/viewtopic.php?t=25703&sid=74e4f0d4a948488623ef07b5157d09c7#275729



Do you have a sister named jenna??



No,

Do you perhaps know the name of the casino that was gioing to operate in the Ritz Carlton and probably the owners


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 26, 2008, 12:32:57 AM

MOKEYS:

The NEWS Newspaper is operated by who? and who work there that report this case


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Helen Back on January 26, 2008, 12:49:31 AM

MOKEYS:

The NEWS Newspaper is operated by who? and who work there that report this case

El Diario - Editor Jossy Mansur

Aruba Today - Editor Julia Renfro, reporter Tito Lacle, sister newspaper Bon Dia - Photo journalist Julia Renfro (Friend of van der Sloots) Sometimes seen on FOX news and source of most misinformation on case as well as constant slandering and bashing of Natalee and her family

That's all I know.  Is this type of information what you are looking for?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Helen Back on January 26, 2008, 12:55:42 AM
Aruba newspapers:

Amigoe
Aruba Today
Awe Mainta
Bon Dia
Diario


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 26, 2008, 02:59:31 AM


MOKEYS:

The NEWS Newspaper is operated by who? and who work there that report this case

El Diario - Editor Jossy Mansur

Aruba Today - Editor Julia Renfro, reporter Tito Lacle, sister newspaper Bon Dia - Photo journalist Julia Renfro (Friend of van der Sloots) Sometimes seen on FOX news and source of most misinformation on case as well as constant slandering and bashing of Natalee and her family

That's all I know.  Is this type of information what you are looking for?



Thkns for the info... it was needed to unravel the riddle...
This means that Julia is also part of the ganag.....


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the NEWS and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:29 pm
SLOOTS and KALPOES do not play with sandcastles
Follow the NEWS!
Mary who was not a Virgin entered the maze to discover it’s secrets
The lamb is scared
The fires are lit
But now the lamb is a goat


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 08:48:18 AM
I'm a little confused this morning....why would the Coastguard need to dig up a paved driveway....Shango says the road is not paved....just what is Eden...Mother Holland, the new hotel/casino, the money....

And who the heck is David...'only David left the den alive'...and why was his mother.......nevermind I'll go and try and find out myself....I guess I'm on ignore...

 ::MonkeyWaa:: ::MonkeyWaa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 08:52:19 AM
Oh and one more thing....Caps please explain how you got Saveneta out of Shango's riddle? Is it because of Lorenzo. Simian tells us to look for Moko, TES got hits there, but were unable to search....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 09:38:41 AM
Oh and one more thing....Caps please explain how you got Saveneta out of Shango's riddle? Is it because of Lorenzo. Simian tells us to look for Moko, TES got hits there, but were unable to search....

I would like to know how he came up with the Ritz Carlton and why he's implicating Julia Refro. What gang?  Julia is part of what gang?  What about the insurance scam that Simian talks about?  Yes, and how did Lorenzo's home in Savaneta get in this?  I am like you, I didn't see that anywhere in Shango's riddle...heck! Everyone knows that I would like to prove that one...just for the sake of my own sanity.  :roll: :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 09:46:07 AM
Capslock translation:

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the NEWS and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED

Actual Shango riddle:
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED



Please explain how you came up with the NEWS as the MUSIC?  How does follow the music translate into follow the news?  Did you mean Julia or are you referring to Jossy Mansur also?  I think those two are the owners of the news around Aruba and if you mean real news I would think you mean Jossy...never read much that came from Julia's papers but fluff pieces and tall tales.

What does "Mary who was not a virgin" mean  in your context? Who are the DiceMen?  Shango capitalized them so is that significant? What does "rolled" mean in your context of the riddle?  I am sure you think these are minor things in the grand scheme, but they need to be answered in order to actually solve the riddle...well to me anyway. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 09:48:16 AM
Oh and one more thing....Caps please explain how you got Saveneta out of Shango's riddle? Is it because of Lorenzo. Simian tells us to look for Moko, TES got hits there, but were unable to search....

I would like to know how he came up with the Ritz Carlton and why he's implicating Julia Refro. What gang?  Julia is part of what gang?  What about the insurance scam that Simian talks about?  Yes, and how did Lorenzo's home in Savaneta get in this?  I am like you, I didn't see that anywhere in Shango's riddle...heck! Everyone knows that I would like to prove that one...just for the sake of my own sanity.  :roll: :roll:


Good Morning Lala's....and I notice that in Caps theory that there is no mention of Freddy....I know he is up to his eyeballs in this otherwise he would not have been questioned as often as he was....and why did his Dad get annoyed at Anita and leave when she was interrogating Freddy... and why would they even go there when she beckoned....I'm sure if she wanted to talk to me, she could come to me....

And Luis Ramirez....why was the Kalpoe sister questioned on 6/20...what could she tell them....and why was Val not questioned or Sebastion and didn't the Judge say the main house couldn't be searched because of the younger brothers who were supposed to be in Holland...little hung up on this Holland thing this morning...LOL....have to think it through....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 09:48:19 AM

MOKEYS:

The NEWS Newspaper is operated by who? and who work there that report this case

Are you implicating Tito also?  I would like clarification please.  How does he fit into this scenario?  Maybe I misread that too.  Where is that in the riddle?  I think I am on ignore too, Mum.  <<<<<<<<<<heavy sigh>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 09:51:50 AM
Hi Mum!  Glad you are here.  What do you think about this idea?  Let's begin at the beginning again and try to connect the dots one line or phrase at a time...Maybe I am reading this all wrong in relation to Caps, but there are way too many inconsistencies and loose ends that must be tied up in order to claim riddle solved. What do you think? Maybe if we do that, Caps would place his comments in along with ours and we could get a better understanding of where he's coming from...just an idea.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 10:04:02 AM
Hi Mum!  Glad you are here.  What do you think about this idea?  Let's begin at the beginning again and try to connect the dots one line or phrase at a time...Maybe I am reading this all wrong in relation to Caps, but there are way too many inconsistencies and loose ends that must be tied up in order to claim riddle solved. What do you think? Maybe if we do that, Caps would place his comments in along with ours and we could get a better understanding of where he's coming from...just an idea.


OK with me...when I looked at the Simian posts IIRC they start on 6/17 and then miss a few days...am I correct in this or are some missing?  If this is right, why did he take that break....Klaas mentioned someone posting under another name the other day, do you recall who it was? I had a heck of a time yesterday going back to see what jackb said about van der straten's paintings and then only found one and I'm sure it wasn't the one that he mentioned, but still have to go back and find the original post. TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 10:17:46 AM
Klaas knows the names that Simian (or at least the IP or email addy were the same) posted under.  I knew this at one time...right now I can't remember.  Maybe Klaas will remind my feeble mind...I think I even had that stuff in some kind of order before my last computer crash.  Alas, I can't remember now.  I think there were posts on other forums as well, just not under the normal nicknames. 

What I would like to do it compare everybody's interprtations with some of the known facts ( or as factual as things get in this case) with some of the more unsubstantiated stories.  I am not saying Caps doesn't know what he's talking about...I am saying it needs to be backed up with a few more facts, posts, or whatever we can find to be taken seriously.  Colombo should be happy...Caps is talking his language with the casino and Posner...Still looking for Dirty Hand...has Caps said who that is yet?  And what about Arawak Dirty Hand?  I get the feeling that Arawak to Caps means something other than what all those code talkers thought. 

Let's just rip it all apart again and start over...let's make it work this time.  I am fairly free this weekend anyway. How about you?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on January 26, 2008, 10:19:36 AM
I have no idea why I am posting this for CAPSLOCK.

There is a business called The News at Italiestraat 5, phone 582-4725.  I can't find out anything else.  Perhaps someone can do a Chamber search.

http://www.arubayp.com/ListBossPage.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on January 26, 2008, 10:25:20 AM
Mum

The privilege log relates to items given to Deepak.  If Val gave a statement it might be in the log of Joran and/or Paulus.  We have only seen items that Deepak has listed as possibly related to the Dr. Phil request for items.  We have not seen everything available on the case.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 10:26:08 AM
Will be around today, but probably not tomorrow and back on track on Monday.

The hard part will be choosing which lies we want to follow....there are so many. That was a lot of the reason I went right back to the very first posts and CNN stories to see what I could glean before all the misinformation started. I think it started on the front page around the 6th already. So much to read and so little time....

Thanks Buckeye....Klaas just posted that link for the Chamber and I thought I bookmarked it and I didn't. Of Course...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 10:31:39 AM
Mum

The privilege log relates to items given to Deepak.  If Val gave a statement it might be in the log of Joran and/or Paulus.  We have only seen items that Deepak has listed as possibly related to the Dr. Phil request for items.  We have not seen everything available on the case.


Thanks Buckeye....I keep reminding myself that...LOL....I bet that there is a whole lot that Dr Phil's lawyers don't even know they would like to see....

But if Paulus was first questioned on the 14th and maybe Anita on the 15th that's a big stretch from the 2nd when Nadira and Luis were brought in.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 10:41:09 AM
I really don't know where to start...LOL  After all this time you would think I would not be confused.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 10:57:21 AM
I have no idea why I am posting this for CAPSLOCK.

There is a business called The News at Italiestraat 5, phone 582-4725.  I can't find out anything else.  Perhaps someone can do a Chamber search.

http://www.arubayp.com/ListBossPage.html

Of course that link didn't work for me, but guess where it takes me when I google The News Aruba....who would have thought....tourism...Maybe this is what Caps meant???


http://www.arubanews.net/


http://www.aruba.com/news/

You have my attention Lala's...LOL...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on January 26, 2008, 10:58:26 AM
Mum

The privilege log relates to items given to Deepak.  If Val gave a statement it might be in the log of Joran and/or Paulus.  We have only seen items that Deepak has listed as possibly related to the Dr. Phil request for items.  We have not seen everything available on the case.


Thanks Buckeye....I keep reminding myself that...LOL....I bet that there is a whole lot that Dr Phil's lawyers don't even know they would like to see....

But if Paulus was first questioned on the 14th and maybe Anita on the 15th that's a big stretch from the 2nd when Nadira and Luis were brought in.

For all we know, Paulus could have been questioned the morning of 5/31.  Oh no, that's right, he was only helping Joran get his facts straight.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on January 26, 2008, 11:02:04 AM
I have no idea why I am posting this for CAPSLOCK.

There is a business called The News at Italiestraat 5, phone 582-4725.  I can't find out anything else.  Perhaps someone can do a Chamber search.

http://www.arubayp.com/ListBossPage.html

Of course that link didn't work for me, but guess where it takes me when I google The News Aruba....who would have thought....tourism...Maybe this is what Caps meant???


http://www.arubanews.net/


http://www.aruba.com/news/

You have my attention Lala's...LOL...


Just put The News, in the upper right search box on original page.  Then click link that comes up.  It's the phone book.  The UPI (united Press International) listed the same address (at least in a book from 2002).


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 11:03:00 AM
I really don't know where to start...LOL  After all this time you would think I would not be confused.


Lala's ...let's start at the beginning...


Was it Shockthe monkey posting as something like Valerie on the 16th...will do a search and see if I can find it...

 ::MonkeyWaa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 11:10:31 AM
I really don't know where to start...LOL  After all this time you would think I would not be confused.


Lala's ...let's start at the beginning...


Was it Shockthe monkey posting as something like Valerie on the 16th...will do a search and see if I can find it...

 ::MonkeyWaa::


Vanessa? Also I think countrymoon had multiple personalities. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 11:11:04 AM
Will do Buckeye...Thanks...I thought that you were bringing your post from the main thread over for Caps... ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thanks quote Buckeye:

In 2002, the Editor in Chief of Aruba Today was Vanja Oduber.  Those Oduber's seem to be into a lot of the newspapers.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 11:14:15 AM
I really don't know where to start...LOL  After all this time you would think I would not be confused.


Lala's ...let's start at the beginning...


Was it Shockthe monkey posting as something like Valerie on the 16th...will do a search and see if I can find it...

 ::MonkeyWaa::


Vanessa? Also I think countrymoon had multiple personalities. LOL

That was it...and I thought I had countrymoon worked out..I was just going back to the 16th to see what was said, but I'm not quite there yet.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 11:18:23 AM
Are we going to use Merian Ernest posts also? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 11:25:41 AM
Are we going to use Merian Ernest posts also? 


Of Course....Interesting on the 16th. crs says that the boys are cracking and Daddy needs to get in that jail and chill out for 120 days. Also that they will never be charged because of lack of evidence...who would have thought that on the 16th....hmmmm!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 11:27:20 AM
Whoops...tell the 3 boys to chill out for 120 days and it will all be over...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 11:39:30 AM
Here's one...though not from the beginning...

  Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
There is no arrest of the Mom.
Posted Jun 24, 2:17 PM


Interesting that Anita was called 'the wild card' and it was thought she could crack out of guilt. Could she have been one of the cards that was played? It would be a 'legal checkmate' as well.  Thoughts?...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 11:46:23 AM
Whoops...tell the 3 boys to chill out for 120 days and it will all be over...

It's interesting to see how there are those that knew things could blow over fairly quickly with patience isn't it.  If you notice crs and Lucy and Checkme and Shock were some of the first to say this.  Lucy wasn't in Aruba...she was on another island from what I recall.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 11:49:42 AM
Here's one...though not from the beginning...

  Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
There is no arrest of the Mom.
Posted Jun 24, 2:17 PM


Interesting that Anita was called 'the wild card' and it was thought she could crack out of guilt. Could she have been one of the cards that was played? It would be a 'legal checkmate' as well.  Thoughts?...

Thanks for finding that post, there is another one by Simian addressed to Lucy or crs that I have looked for so long I have forgotten. Yes, another possibility...of course you are now talking about Shango and not Simian.  LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 11:52:54 AM
Whoops...tell the 3 boys to chill out for 120 days and it will all be over...

It's interesting to see how there are those that knew things could blow over fairly quickly with patience isn't it.  If you notice crs and Lucy and Checkme and Shock were some of the first to say this.  Lucy wasn't in Aruba...she was on another island from what I recall.



It is very interesting...this is the day before Simian started posting....did he/she know as well? Will have to keep that in mind when I reread the interactions between posters.

Where did Caps go?....I have questions?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 12:04:39 PM
Here's one...though not from the beginning...

  Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
There is no arrest of the Mom.
Posted Jun 24, 2:17 PM


Interesting that Anita was called 'the wild card' and it was thought she could crack out of guilt. Could she have been one of the cards that was played? It would be a 'legal checkmate' as well.  Thoughts?...

Thanks for finding that post, there is another one by Simian addressed to Lucy or crs that I have looked for so long I have forgotten. Yes, another possibility...of course you are now talking about Shango and not Simian.  LOL

I guess that I am going on the theory that Shango posted to refute Simian, so therefore they are intertwined. I should have gone back to see what Shango's answer to, if any, was to Simian's post.

That first post of Simian's wasn't dated and timestamped. I hope that I run across it when I'm reading as he seems to be talking about Chandra Levy days apart! Seems like it should belong on the 22nd...out of context of course!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 12:11:04 PM
One more and I'll let youor someone else, get a word in edgeways....You asked the other day about 'what other car'...well Joran's of course...LOL

again from the same date and poster:

If the fluid you mention is the fluid found in Joran’s honda, they have previously said no further tests would be conducted on the substance since it was not blood.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 12:16:56 PM
This seems to be one of the first cryptic posts by Simian...before this Simian was reviewing the ideas tht were being mentioned in the media...sex slavery, insurance scams, runaway...etc.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 2:59 pm
There’s not even a trace of her. At this point I am inclined to believe in a theory that has been going around on the island, but that I find difficult to post here.


These are snippets of the conversation leading up to this post and if you notice Simian never answers the question...he/she just disappears and then just as suddenly reappears headed in different direction.


#  VANESSA on June 22nd, 2005 2:56 pm

I’m worried about checkme; has anyone heard from him today?


# scampos on June 22nd, 2005 2:56 pm

born 2 b wild, it is totally +++++++ to put Paris Hilton on a pedestal. It is actually an embarrassment


# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 2:56 pm

The 2 Queens are bickering!


# pktbk on June 22nd, 2005 2:57 pm

vanessa-nope….not at all.

nor have i seen popy.


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 2:57 pm

Countrymoon has said nothing that would make me think she is not legit. i think we all figure out the fakes pretty quick around here.


# pktbk on June 22nd, 2005 2:57 pm

jake-i was thinking that, but i didn’t say it. lol


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 2:59 pm

Checkme was on very early this morning and has not shown up since - I think he had some new news so hopefully he shows up.


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 2:59 pm

There’s not even a trace of her. At this point I am inclined to believe in a theory that has been going around on the island, but that I find difficult to post here.


# scaredshitless on June 22nd, 2005 3:00 pm

well CRS can you tell Leopard queen is a fake blonde?

Pktbk: Nj is full of hispanics, blacks, Indians, etc. so unless you travel in the rich towns, there are few blond people to be seen. I like the diversity though.


scaredshitless on June 22nd, 2005 3:01 pm

Simian: and what is that?



#  crs on June 22nd, 2005 3:02 pm

Simian - just tell us - don’t offer us pudding and then eat it yourself.


# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 3:03 pm

Simien:
How can you possibly find it hard to post anything here! Pls. tell me/us what is going around on the island!


DFW Guy on June 22nd, 2005 3:04 pm

Simian, come on. What is th rumor on the island?

crs on June 22nd, 2005 3:11 pm

Simien - We’re waiting……….we don’t have all day!


#  Simian on June 22nd, 2005 3:11 pm

What Countrymoon is saying is true. In Aruba we wonder how come WE do not get a chance to interrogate some chaperone or the group of kids that were swimming in front of the Holiday Inn until 6 in the morning.

#  VANESSA on June 22nd, 2005 3:14 pm

Countrymoon, do you feel there is a chance she is alive and being held against her will?


Jake on June 22nd, 2005 3:14 pm

Okay Simen - PRETTY PLEASE tell us what is being said on the island!!!!!

DFW Guy on June 22nd, 2005 3:17 pm

Simian, can’t you at least tell us what the rumor is? It’s not like you started it. Come on.


crs on June 22nd, 2005 3:21 pm

I guess Simian’s mom put him down for a nap finally.

#  Dutch on Aruba on June 22nd, 2005 3:22 pm

Rumor is …. she disappeared before. But I hear a lot of countries, lastly The Bahamas. Supposedly this info came through police inspectors and even from her dad.


Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:23 pm

The news in Aruba has reported that Joran has shut down.








Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 12:18:37 PM
Keep talking Mum...I am listening with both ears this time. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 12:38:01 PM
A little more from this time frame. 


#  pktbk on June 22nd, 2005 4:25 pm

simian…shut down?

jb…the chaperones had their passports.


# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 4:25 pm

Simian - “The news in Aruba has reported that Joran has shut down. ” What does that mean?


# ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:25 pm

Simian what does that mean??


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:27 pm

Stopped talking.


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:27 pm

He has gone in a sort of downer mood. Is not saying anything anymore.


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:28 pm

Sim - are you going telling us your info or not from earlier?


# VANESSA on June 22nd, 2005 4:28 pm

Shut down as in not talking anymore….possibly about to crack.


# MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 4:29 pm

Yeah, Daddy VDS prolly jumped his son’s ass again… “I TOLD YOU TO SHUT UP, BOY!!!”


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:29 pm

Sim - Right now we hear Joran has changed his story again - what do your hear?


# ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:29 pm

JON—-Ok I kinda figured something like that and I know you have heard several stories from allot ppl who were on the trip that is if you were’nt, but did anyone say y they didnt stop her? Or is it that no one saw her go in the car period?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 12:43:36 PM
Keep talking Mum...I am listening with both ears this time. LOL


Me too...darn phone ...so what do you think Simian meant by 'too difficult to post here'?

Can only be a few things...
Taken off the island
Held in a crackhouse or house
something 'bad' happened
kidnapped...per Caps
Any more


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on January 26, 2008, 12:45:39 PM
Keep talking Mum...I am listening with both ears this time. LOL


Me too...darn phone ...so what do you think Simian meant by 'too difficult to post here'?

Can only be a few things...
Taken off the island
Held in a crackhouse or house
something 'bad' happened
kidnapped...per Caps
Any more

cremated ......but I'm not really here........


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 12:48:32 PM
These posts lead right up to one of the most confusing and important people in all this...the 5th suspect...

#  crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:30 pm

Vanessa - either that or he has told all he knows.


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:31 pm

I tried to, but I got a message saying that my post would bo placed in through the moderator. I tried again and got the same message. Maybe I am not allowed to say what I know.


# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 4:32 pm

You mean he has been talking for the past 3 weeks, and NOW he decides to shut up? What a jerk. Obviously since Nat has not been found, he hasn’t given much concrete info to begin with. Why shut up now Joran. I mean have you even given authorities a clue on where Nat might be? Why stop talking now.

give me a break!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



#  Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 4:33 pm

Sim - say it in another language and we’ll translate.


# Stefe McHearthy on June 22nd, 2005 4:34 pm

@ MOFOfromMO
Don’t you have any job or obligation to fulfill?

Or are you the one sponsored by Bin Laden….


# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 4:36 pm

We have to know that “Montana” (house where Joran and family lives) is really part of “Noord”. I reported yesterday that there was something going on. It was the parents finally meeting each other. Aruba is working.

crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:37 pm

Checkme - any new tidbits you can provide today? Do you still think what we talked about yesterday to be true?


#  pktbk on June 22nd, 2005 4:41 pm

jake….that is true. even if her parents have to leave. they need to be on tv or newspapers everyday to keep this going.

checkme—you were spot on yesterday.


# ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:42 pm

Country Moon do u believe she was drugged also?


#  Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 4:43 pm

June 16, 2005 08:26 AM on RiehlWorldView:

“I have always loved Aruba for it’s multi cultural society. Even to see how under extreme stress we can still see each others humanity gives me hope. On this island the distances are very short so you cannot remain distant and judge coldly. “
# ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:43 pm

Is Simian gone??


#  pktbk on June 22nd, 2005 4:44 pm

do you think it odd that not only do we mainly hear about joran, not the brothers. but also that steve croes is a friend of the brothers, not so much joran. i think there is something going on in regards to the brothers. there is no spotlight on them right now.
# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:45 pm

I hope they find her. The gov’t and the private sector should give the whole island the day off to go wave her goodbye at the Airport.
# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 4:46 pm

Do you guys believe that Simien tried to send us a message and got placed in a “moderator”????? Do you think he’s for real? Or are his walls padded? Or maybe he needs a nap?


#  ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:46 pm

pktbk I totally agree, b/c they were the first ones sent to the big Prison not Joran, so y him and not them.
# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 4:47 pm

You got it pktbk.

CRS, all still stands dude.
# CountryMoon on June 22nd, 2005 4:47 pm

If those three boys want everyone to believe that they did to her what they had claimed in their first, second, and third version of their stories, when they were trying to smear her name, then given her character she would have had to of be drugged. I am not saying that she was though. There are different interpretations on how she looked when she left that night. Every one was just so busy having a good time, and the idea of something bad actually happening was the farthest from everyones minds. I can not really comment further on that.


#  crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:47 pm

what was up with Checkme’s last post. Checkme, give me something today - you are always right on.


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:48 pm

I am here. Can’t say the things I want…


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:48 pm

Thanks checkme!!


#  Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:50 pm

Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.
# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 4:52 pm

WO!
# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:53 pm

Sim can you elaborate anymore than that? Is this your opinion or based on something mre concrete?


# pktbk on June 22nd, 2005 4:53 pm

wow…..we’ve made more progress in the last five minutes than all week!!


#  crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:54 pm

pktbk - sim is contradicting what checkme says. Thoughts?


# ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:55 pm

pktbk— where did u hear that they didnt like black or the dutch kid, b/c they seemed to hang out with him more than once.


# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 4:55 pm

What did CheckMe say?


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:56 pm

The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.









Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 12:51:13 PM
Keep talking Mum...I am listening with both ears this time. LOL


Me too...darn phone ...so what do you think Simian meant by 'too difficult to post here'?

Can only be a few things...
Taken off the island
Held in a crackhouse or house
something 'bad' happened
kidnapped...per Caps
Any more

cremated ......but I'm not really here........

I hope not, but agree it is a strong possibillity. (But I did see you...LOL)

Still trying to read a little of that thread, and I think that Joran's confession was on the 16th, and the one on the 10th was possibly Satish....No more questions for Satish....LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 12:51:26 PM
Keep talking Mum...I am listening with both ears this time. LOL


Me too...darn phone ...so what do you think Simian meant by 'too difficult to post here'?

Can only be a few things...
Taken off the island
Held in a crackhouse or house
something 'bad' happened
kidnapped...per Caps
Any more

cremated ......but I'm not really here........

Not true Buckeye!  I am glad you are here..stick around and tell me what you think.

Actually it's hard to tell since the only thing they have been talking about is runaways and sex slavery and such.  That is why I have tried to post the more relevant posts concerning Simian's comments so everyone can give input as to what they think it means.

Cremation is just as valid at this point as any...thoughts?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 12:56:54 PM
LOL As you can see we are not the only confused posters. It's been an enigma since the very beginning. OOPS! That darn Lorenzo keeps coming up again...shucks!

#  Jake on June 22nd, 2005 4:57 pm

Sim - what is the other side of the pond? Is it a place, or is it an organization?

# ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:58 pm

wat alibi does the 5ht suspect have??


# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 4:59 pm

Who is the 5th suspect? There are now 4. Who is the 5th?

# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 4:59 pm
“the other side of the pond” - the Aruban Mafia


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:00 pm

The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:02 pm

The other side of pond I assume is the us and you are insinuting it is her friends/family involved.


# ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 5:02 pm

whose boyfriend earlier in the week??????


# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 5:02 pm

Huh Simian?


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:02 pm

What boyfriend? Whose? I am confused Sim.


# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:03 pm

This is getting really bizarre. Who’s boyfriend from earlier in the week?


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:03 pm

The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?


# MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 5:03 pm

Simian:
Boyfriend from earlier? Can you elaborate??

Thanx!


#  crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:03 pm

Sim - i am totally lost on what you are saying.
# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:04 pm

SImian
Is #5 Van Rijn????????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 12:58:49 PM
This is interesting...I had missed it before.


#  Stefe McHearthy on June 22nd, 2005 5:04 pm

@ MOFOfromMO
And I want to say that I care about you! But you need to work on yourself! That is not easy. Nobody sais it is easy! You will receive the guidance and love you need if you step up and be honest!

Stefe.


# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:06 pm

I think he is saying NH had an earlier aquaintance during the first couple of days of the trip — I think.


# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:06 pm

crs
I think you blew the cover.



# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:06 pm

Stefe - why have you gone psycho on mom, chill out.


# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:07 pm

This is BS. I don’t believe that NH family or friends had anything to do with this! This is not what this case is about. Stop trying to throw us off track here. The MAIN SUSPECTS and CULPRITS in this case are the ones that are in jail right now. I don’t think we should let anyone take us away from that. We heard from Country Moon that Nat and Family are really good people, and I believe it! I truly do! You can tell by all the pictures. I still believe it is Joran and friends!


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:07 pm

rem - you may be right.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 01:02:04 PM
Continuing....I think we should see as much in order as is possible....




#  MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 5:07 pm

Stefe:

What exactly is your purpose in this forum????

No one cares what the hell you are talking about. Please stay on topic or go back to pre-school.

# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:09 pm

A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.


# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:11 pm

Was the lover on the trip??

# Stefe McHearthy on June 22nd, 2005 5:12 pm

@ MOFOfromMO
You know it is exactly on topic.
Do what you feel is right.


# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:12 pm

Sim -Surely your not saying a local MT brook boyfriend would be involved in this, would you.


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:13 pm

A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:14 pm

Sim -I think your reaching


# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:15 pm

How could a local MT boyfriend be involved. The FBI would have cracked this case already through phone records and the internet. I don’t believe this. This is yet ANOTHER rumor!


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:16 pm

He had to be let go.


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:16 pm

Does seem a little far fetched.


# born 2 b wild on June 22nd, 2005 5:17 pm

I love the cock fighting that goes on in this blog -complete w/razor blades attached to the spurs

We should take odds on the hour for the latest round

Right now we got Stefe in this corner and MOM from MO (the “show me MOM”) in that corner

p.s: checkme - check this


# Kristin on June 22nd, 2005 5:17 pm

COUNTRY MOON:

Thank you for taking the time to come on and talk to us. We appreciate your time, even though we can’t imagine how hard this must be for you and your community-we do understand. We all have been pretty caught up in this case, it’s tearing everyone apart. People have been listening to the news, radio and checking online forums faithfully. We all want Natalee to be safe, and we all understand that there is more to the story. As typical Americans though, we don’t understand WHY we can’t hear the truth. We know that Mrs. Twitty is keeping it together for SOME reason other than the simple hope of Natalee being alive. She has to KNOW that she is alive. Any information that we hear is helpful…and just the fact that you say OUTLOUD that there is more to the story keeps us all hanging on. It is hard to try and justify what Natalee is really like, when we don’t know her and we hear all of the rumors. It would help us all to understand MORE if we knew if Natalee has dissapeared before. But as you said, you probably can’t answer that.
I figured I would give it a shot anyways, and if you still can’t answer, I respect that.
Do you believe that she is alive but in another country?


# sunny71 on June 22nd, 2005 5:17 pm

Some insight from a local:
the coverage of this case is ridiculous, but I can understand the fixation on the ‘exoticness’ of this case, what with the weird Aruban laws and all.
Fact is, the police here has every interest in getting this thing resolved asap, if only because of the negative publicity.
The investigators screwed up in the beginning, because vdSloot Sr. is well known in those circles and they took Jr.’s story at face value at first. Understandable under the circumstances, but stupid in hindsight.
Jr. would have confessed a long time ago if he had done it. Interrogations by the local police are not a walk in the park for the suspects, as some of you might think. Aruban police knows a thing or two about pressuring a suspect.
My question is: did NH go back to her hotelroom and sneak out that night and are her roommates keeping mum about that? Just a thought.
I think Steve Croes and the Kalpoe’s should be the focus.


# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:17 pm

Good try Sim….I hope this story (rumor) breaks tonight. That will mean more air time for the Natalee Case!!!


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:18 pm

Sim - again is this your theory or something more concrete?


# MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 5:19 pm

Hey Sim?

Didn’t you mention earlier that when you were ‘awaiting moderation’, that it occurred when you typed (the word for a place to gamble)???


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:20 pm

Kristin - Country seemed to discount that earlier that she had been kidnapped and was possibly on another island - she seemed to point the finger at Van Der Sloot.


# MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 5:21 pm

Born 2 B Wild:

Now, don’t get excited. I’m not in any corner, cuz I don’t humor TROLLS for long.

Besides, I’ve already flushed him down the commode with the rest of his little ‘brown friends’.

***Whhhhaaaa-Shhhhhhhhhh***


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:22 pm

This is not my theory. This is for real.


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:23 pm
Sim - I will give you your props if it proves correct.


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:25 pm

Sim - let me get this right - seriously - you are saying NH’s ex killed her on the trip and the friends are covering up that he did this? Hence giving him an airtight alibi as you say.


# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:25 pm

crs- can you put together a small little paragraph on the latest theory from Sim.


# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:25 pm

Sim - You have lost me!!


# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:25 pm

Sunny 71
I do not know if it is true, but about 12 days ago it was reported that the roomates had not worried because she had only slept in the room the first night. Did not say if she had slept at other friends’ or elsewhere.


# Kristin on June 22nd, 2005 5:25 pm

Seriously guys, what are we talking about? WHO is suspect # 5? AND, something along these lines WOULD make sense, seeing as how everyone in Aruba knows whats going on and they all seem calm about it. If Joran really did something to Natalee, you think Mrs. Twitty would be hugging his mother and being friendly with his Dad? NO. I don’t care how nice she is, she wouldn’t do that.

Thanks CRS for being so helpful.
GOD-WHAT is going on??? And WHEN are we going to find out????????????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 01:03:08 PM
This exchange I have a really hard time following...LOL

What was checkme spot on about the day before?

Maybe that would help, if I knew.

Is this where posters start saying 'gotta go' when certain others log on? If so how did they know? It didn't show like on the forum and if a poster hadn't made a post yet, how would they know that they had to go! Who was pinging whom!

I'm still back on your post about them contracdicting each other, Lala's...LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 01:04:49 PM


#  Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:26 pm

The alibi story is the almost the latest.

The latest is that there’s a gap in the time-line for the boys.

It is true that one of them tried to off himself.

# Midway on June 22nd, 2005 5:26 pm

Joran’s probably innocent


# MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 5:28 pm

I’m outtie, folks. Have a great evening..Thank you everyone, for all the updates!!

Peace out.


# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 5:28 pm

Simian is late with facts and wring with his speculations.


# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:28 pm

Kristin
Mrts. Twiggy didn’t hug Mrs. Van Der Sloot. Mrs. Van Der Sloot kissed Mrs. Twiggy on the cheek, as she left her house.


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:29 pm

I did not say an ex. Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:29 pm

Sim - your not making any sense- on the one hand you seem to be saying an ex killed NH and on the other hand you are back talking about the boys - why would one of the boys try and kill himself if he is being framed?


# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:29 p

elaborate Checkme


#  Midway on June 22nd, 2005 5:29 pm

The two security guards set Joran up


# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:30 pm

But who is the ex-boyfriend? Is he someone from the US, or did Natalee meet him in Aruba? Who is Van Rijn?


# Rob on June 22nd, 2005 5:30 pm

Sim,

Was this #5 perhaps someone Joran was having a confrontation with in C&C’s?


# pdl on June 22nd, 2005 5:30 pm

Mrs. Twitty after leaving the Van Der Sloot’s home said that she felt sure there would be more arrests leading me to think that she is being held somewhere by others.


# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 5:30 pm

He said the ex was at “home.” He said the 5th had an alibi - that is not necessarily the ex.


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:30 pm

Checkme- that is what i figured as you have by far been the most accurate and I am with you on your theory.


# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:31 pm

Checkme
Please put us up-to-date.


# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:31 pm

Sim is saying that her ex’s friends had something to do with this, her ex was back in alabama, right Sim


# concerned4natalee on June 22nd, 2005 5:31 pm

DOES ANYONE HAVE A CLUE HERE?


# concerned4natalee on June 22nd, 2005 5:32 pm

WHO’S THE 5TH PERSON??


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 01:07:04 PM
This exchange I have a really hard time following...LOL

What was checkme spot on about the day before?

Maybe that would help, if I knew.

Is this where posters start saying 'gotta go' when certain others log on? If so how did they know? It didn't show like on the forum and if a poster hadn't made a post yet, how would they know that they had to go! Who was pinging whom!

I'm still back on your post about them contracdicting each other, Lala's...LOL

I know, I know...I think it is about something Checkme said from another day.  They do indeed contradict each other...if you notice the posters that are in Aruba seems to trust Checkme more than Simian...go figure. LOL  It will take time, I promise to stop here in a bit and let everyone get caught up.  Just trying to get through the 5th suspect stuff.   Forgive my long posts.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 01:14:58 PM



#  rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:33 pm

Concerned - Ask Sim, he’s like my mom, he knows everything.

# Stefe McHearthy on June 22nd, 2005 5:33 pm

@ MOFOfromMO

Think, it is your life!
Please be blesseth!

# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:33 pm

Checkme and Simian
This is it for you guys. You need to deliver something, since you have created all this expectation


# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 5:34 pm

rem - your mom taught you well


# Kristin on June 22nd, 2005 5:35 pm

Seriously, please tell me something. PLEASE.


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:36 pm

Lucy - i think Sim is a long shot, this is the first day i have seen him on the boards and he has not been right so far but i would stick with Checkme.


# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 5:36 pm

I think it’s Checkme’s turn to deliver.


# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:37 pm

I agree with CRS. Checkme, where do we stand?


#  Snippy on June 22nd, 2005 5:37 pm

MOM, that was I that mentioned that gambling place called a C…just thought I’d peek in and see what the therories are now…so Sim thinks a kid on the trip did the deed? Can’t figure out for the life of me what he’s saying..SPIT IT OUT…instead of playing these word games for goodness sake.


# concerned4natalee on June 22nd, 2005 5:37 pm

????????


# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:37 pm

crs
Will follow your advise. For a while I thought he was a java duplicate.


# concerned4natalee on June 22nd, 2005 5:38 pm

THIS BLOG IS ALL SPECULATION… FRUSTRATING…


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:38 pm

NH’s mom and Greta reminded me of Room Raiders on MTV last night, I thought they were going to throw Sr. Sloot in the back of a van for a second and try and get him a date.


# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 5:39 pm

lucy - what’s a java duplicate?
crs - what is checkme’s theory?
Sim - what?


# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:39 pm

I think I scared he/she off with the last comment directed toward friends of NH’s ex.


# TK Ice on June 22nd, 2005 5:41 pm

..been lurking for the past couple days - had no intention of posting, but these last few minutes have been like a Chinese (oops Asian) fire-drill
Reminds of an old Abbott & Costello routine:
Who’s on first? Who
What’s on second? right, what
I don’t know. Third base


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:41 pm

Checkme believes NH is part of a kidnapping and has been moved most likely to Columbia - he believes Joran is totally innocent - he believes the brothers and Croes to be involved.



# Kristin on June 22nd, 2005 5:41 pm

Oh and do we all remember how the aruban veteran had said that natalee’s friends and family needed to take the polygraph test, or whatever? Now some of this is starting to make sense. Maye they need to give more information now. He wouldn’t say that for NO reason.


# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 5:41 pm

What you do with what I say is up to you Lucy. I give a finger, you “expect” a body.

Simian, a motive from Joran we do not have.

Twitty will let Joran free soon.

CRS, good hearing you again, proly because you followed my trail. I think that’s because you have read and felt what I have and tie it all together to the seemingly most likely scenario. Like Simian, I hate repeating myself.


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:41 pm

Simian Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.


June 22nd, 2005 at 5:40 pm
Simian Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.


June 22nd, 2005 at 5:38 pm
Checkme…check this…and please recheck:

Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week.

After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him. This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.

First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.

How can this ever be solved?


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:42 pm

I think Lucy thought sim and checkme were the same person.


# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:43 pm

Everybody including me wants to throw in 2 cents worth and hope that somebody on
the other end really has information, most times we are being deceived by speculation, that’s all it is, speculation.


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:44 pm

Checkme - you have not been wrong so far and I think what we have talked about to be very possible.


# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 5:44 pm

You are both verrrrrrrrrry interesting.


# Snippy on June 22nd, 2005 5:45 pm

Sim..I get you now..THANKS…you could be right..I “See” you mentioned that dreaded C word like I did and had your post deleted…


# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:45 pm

Trisher
I guess I have started to really believe that I was one more of the detectives on this case. Around 4:48 CRS asked Chjeckme if he was around. Simian said, a few lines afterwards something like I am here but can’t say everything. Out of the blues, I decided that Simian and Checkme perhaps were the same person. In computer languages, I think they call Simian a code that identifies a duplicate.

# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:47 pm

Can someone explain to me in Sim’s theory who is guy 1 and guy 2, which is Joran?


# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:49 pm

Checkme
I don’t expect a body. Perhaps a short summary of your latest discovery. Did not mean to be pushy, but just like everyone, just want your info updates to keep coming. My apologies.


# Rob on June 22nd, 2005 5:51 pm

Simian,

Hence the confrontation with Joran that the other students reported seeing at C&C’s?


# sunny71 on June 22nd, 2005 5:52 pm

so NH only slept in the assigned room with her roommates on the first nioght of their vacation? Is that correct?
If so, I’m really starting to wonder about this girl. Where did she sleep all the other nights? Did she have her bags packed the whole week, ready to leave at a moments notice?


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:53 pm

I wonder what crazy antics Greta and Beth will be to tonight.


# born 2 b wild on June 22nd, 2005 5:53 pm

jghfti llhjmy rhedcxedb dmcxcki fjrnrffu*n llamcd bgt fllrt gmmmm?

(another intergalactic relay - means “wheres the beef”)


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:55 pm

He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.



# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:57 pm

Sunny 71
She may have slept at other classmates room. If they hung around together, came to the hotel, and slept in somebody elses’s room.


# cancon on June 22nd, 2005 5:57 pm

ah wait a minute, wait a minute, having experienced this somewhat myself……

the rumour de jour is that Natalee only slept in her room one night, could it be Natalee did not get along with her specific roomates which would explain why they seemed so clueless last night on Fox, had there been some big blowout so Natalee was bunking with others????


# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 5:57 pm

Lucy, CRS did an excellent recap for us all. Please don’t confuse me anymore with Simian. Just like van Sijn and van Rijn…

One thing I do want to repeat. It is so easy to throw mud at our authorities. Please don’t. We are all doing our best every day to have NH reunited with her family. We are not very good at the media show which is why I am also happy our system is closed while the investigative process is taking place.

I am not part of “the Aruban Authority”. Just a Human Being living in Aruba (duhhh…)

Vanessa, did you ever take a look at the links I posted for you? I send them with my warmest regards.


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:57 pm

Sim - i am going to have to think about this tonight and i will have some questions tomorrow morning.


# cancon on June 22nd, 2005 5:59 pm

or Natalee was having a feud with one or two of the girls and thusly purposely avoiding them, only spending the min time in the room……..


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:59 pm

Checkme, have a good night my friend, hope you have some more details tomorrow!!



#  Simian on June 22nd, 2005 6:01 pm

The first guy she met has all the motive. The second guy is scared shitless in a cell.

I have heard from Americans living in Aruba and and they think something completely different.


# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 6:01 pm

Simian

Possible alibis (or alibies) for #5:
Was in jail for DUI of illegal substances
Was filming himself
Was making a delivery
Was in Curaà §ao
Was painting his truck in Savaneta
None of the above


# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 6:03 pm

Take care, CU tmrw. Over and out.


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 6:04 pm

Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was “the whole time”.


# born 2 b wild on June 22nd, 2005 6:05 pm

I think the entire entourage (friends,chaperones etc…) now that they are back here in the USA, should be interviewed by the FBI,especially any who were in close proximity to (or responsible for) NH. They probably are being talked to as we speak.

Oh hang on, I just got another alien e-mail (I’ll be right back to paste it)>>>

fkvlfdidddp olggmt ffpdsmvg lsmmvnfjvhjjj vofofoggoffmsdmsamxx !!!

(translation: “born 2 be wild, you are a butt wipe”)

“I tell ya, I get no respect”


# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 6:05 pm

Lucy!!! I am starting to like you.


# Kristin on June 22nd, 2005 6:06 pm

OK so if all this is true, why did Natalee leave with Joran? Why didn’t she just go back to her hotel with her friends? AND, who’s alibi is airtight?


# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 6:07 pm

Lucy, are you from Aruba?


# Kristin on June 22nd, 2005 6:08 pm

Simian, can you share a little more information? Are you in Aruba?
Thanks!


# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 6:11 pm

Kristin,

Go back to the hotel? Last nite out? Party on dudess…



# cancon on June 22nd, 2005 6:12 pm

oh Kristin i am going back to the mind of feuding high school girls…..

she may have gone off with the Aruban guys either because maybe the blowout was the girls fighting over Joran, hey women are always fighting over men who are so not worth it, so Natalee was going ha ha Joran is with me beatches or she took off with them to spite them in general or because she didn’t want to be with the gang….


# born 2 b wild on June 22nd, 2005 6:16 pm

simian means ape or primate FYI


# pdl on June 22nd, 2005 6:16 pm

News is slow on Fox and CNN. I wonder if they all went home?


# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 6:17 pm

Checkme
No, I am from Santo Domingo, but have have visited Aruba many times. Have relatives in San Nicolas. My greatgrandfaher was from Curaà §ao and my great uncle moved back there. I have great childhood memories of Aruba, the carnival, the newyears eve celebrations, etc., and also my first encounter in life with oriental and asian foods.
# Donny on June 22nd, 2005 6:18 pm

@Sim:
Is that 5th suspect with a tight aliby whose father recently committed suicide and who has had serious mental issues since?


# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 6:20 pm

Mira, Dominicana!!! My my you have traveled much. Allow me to compliment you on your perfect English.

I have seen you a lot on this blog. Why are you so interested in this case?


# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 6:24 pm

Checkme
First, the desperation of the mother. Then, the fact that it was Aruba. By the way, went banck about 7 years ago, and could not believe the change from oil refineries to hotel strips. Do you still call Oranjestad, Playa?

As for my English, went to school in Massachusetts.


# jon on June 22nd, 2005 6:28 pm


simian you make up more bull another lover , it seems you are just trying to start more rumors . you have no FACTS to say so you make stuff up. TO all the others ,she had no boyfriend back home. the other side of the pond , please anyone thats interested dont listen to this guy. He has no idea what he is talking about .


# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 6:29 pm

Sigur cu si, playa a keda playa.

My first girlfriend (Colombiana) also went to school in Massachusetts… many moons ago.


# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 6:31 pm

Jon,

Read Simian better. he did not write what you said.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 01:37:05 PM
Lala's... this is the day Joran refused to talk and I cannot remember what his reason was. Something to do with Paulus, maybe to talk to his lawyer? and later on he changes his story, again. Is this the story that Satish picked him up? I think it was. So what does that have to do with Paulus being arrested. Some posters trying to put the blame on 2K though.

A couple of interesting posts by Lucy...the one about 'are you there' and a few minutes later Simian posts. Also the one about the 5th suspect....'he was filming himself'. Is thes a Brough connection to Lorenzo or my best bud Freddy?

That 'whole time' thing still bugs me.....


Still here just trying to take it all in....LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: memphis on January 26, 2008, 01:37:14 PM
#  crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:47 pm

what was up with Checkme’s last post. Checkme, give me something today - you are always right on.


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:48 pm

I am here. Can’t say the things I want…


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:48 pm

Thanks checkme!!

# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:06 pm

crs
I think you blew the cover.



     


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 01:45:47 PM
Lala's...gotta go and get ready to leave...will reread when I can...thanks!

Maybe Caps will be back to enlighten us....

Where is COLUMBO?



Thanks...Memphis...had seen that a few days ago and was so busy looking for my decoder ring, that I forgot to post about it!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: memphis on January 26, 2008, 01:49:52 PM
#  crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:47 pm

what was up with Checkme’s last post. Checkme, give me something today - you are always right on.


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:48 pm

I am here. Can’t say the things I want…


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:48 pm

Thanks checkme!!

# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:06 pm

crs
I think you blew the cover.

I don't think Simian was answering CRS's call to CheckMe, but I think Lucy may have thought so. Who knows? It just jumped out at me.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: memphis on January 26, 2008, 01:53:03 PM
Something else I noticed....

#  Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:50 pm

Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.


This sounds like the same BS that the VDS's were spouting on the wine-throwing TV show.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 02:31:18 PM
#  crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:47 pm

what was up with Checkme’s last post. Checkme, give me something today - you are always right on.


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:48 pm

I am here. Can’t say the things I want…


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:48 pm

Thanks checkme!!

# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:06 pm

crs
I think you blew the cover.

I don't think Simian was answering CRS's call to CheckMe, but I think Lucy may have thought so. Who knows? It just jumped out at me.


Yes, it does just jump out..that is why I felt the need to post it.  I guess you can take it many ways, I got the impression that some of these were one and the same people trying to remain incognito in all this.  Klaas has long said that several posters posted under various names at different times...whether to confuse or not is the question.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 02:32:44 PM
Lala's... this is the day Joran refused to talk and I cannot remember what his reason was. Something to do with Paulus, maybe to talk to his lawyer? and later on he changes his story, again. Is this the story that Satish picked him up? I think it was. So what does that have to do with Paulus being arrested. Some posters trying to put the blame on 2K though.

A couple of interesting posts by Lucy...the one about 'are you there' and a few minutes later Simian posts. Also the one about the 5th suspect....'he was filming himself'. Is thes a Brough connection to Lorenzo or my best bud Freddy?

That 'whole time' thing still bugs me.....


Still here just trying to take it all in....LOL

Yes, where is Capslock today?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: memphis on January 26, 2008, 02:42:02 PM
#  crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:47 pm

what was up with Checkme’s last post. Checkme, give me something today - you are always right on.


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:48 pm

I am here. Can’t say the things I want…


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:48 pm

Thanks checkme!!

# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:06 pm

crs
I think you blew the cover.

I don't think Simian was answering CRS's call to CheckMe, but I think Lucy may have thought so. Who knows? It just jumped out at me.


Yes, it does just jump out..that is why I felt the need to post it.  I guess you can take it many ways, I got the impression that some of these were one and the same people trying to remain incognito in all this.  Klaas has long said that several posters posted under various names at different times...whether to confuse or not is the question.

Was Lucy one of them? If so, she may have let the cat out of the bag, or maybe she was already suspecting Simian and Checkme to be one in the same.

# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:42 pm

I think Lucy thought sim and checkme were the same person.

                     


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on January 26, 2008, 02:52:27 PM
The NEWS

Saw this today on THE NEWS.  Timely, isn't it?   ::MonkeyWink::

THE POSTER ISSUE

Glenda Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:48 am   

BhamMom wrote:
According to Glenda, Julia said this was the poster created before arriving in Aruba. 

GLENDA
Not true Bham, you can read my posts back to 2005. I don't know when it was made. Beth gave the Original Hootie "Flyer" on June 1st around 10 am. Beth told Julia that she had made Kidnapped Posters the day before at The News  with a picture from Natalee's Camera, but van der Straaten wouldn't allow her to put them up. Beth was very angry at van der Straaten. Julia took the original "flyer" with the 5x7 color photo and made copies of it for her and returned the Original back to Beth. The phone # on the poster was Beth's local #. I don't know if she rented it or if it was a prepaid.

Beth told Julia that the Detective told her that Natalee was in a drug house and would reappear in a few days, that she should just go to the beach and drink pina coladas and wait. Beth established Natatee's character again as she had done the evening before on the phone and stated that Natalee was being held against her will and she had to get her before something happens to her.


Then the Missing Poster was made at ZEROX on June 2 and that is when Beth dragged Vadar to the Police Station. On June 3rd, Beth was repremanded by the ALE for standing on the Street Corner at Renaissance passing out Kidnapped posters to passing cars.

That is the extent of what I know about Posters and Flyers. 
 
 
 
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 02:59:19 PM
::MonkeyHaHa:: DH DWELS IN SAVANETA  ::MonkeyHaHa::DANGER SM WALLS HAVE EARS. ::MonkeyShocked::


Dirty Hand is Lorenzo?  He's also the 5th suspect?  How did you decide this?  What part of Shango's riddles led you to this conclusion.  How did you get the white pickup from a Shango riddle?  I have never seen mention of a white truck in any of Shango...I really need a magic decoder ring.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 03:03:57 PM
Tylergal
Is this what you meant about Absolam yesterday? WOW! 

http://www.blessedquietness.com/journal/homemake/biblest-usurper.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 03:05:35 PM
::MonkeyHaHa:: DH DWELS IN SAVANETA  ::MonkeyHaHa::DANGER SM WALLS HAVE EARS. ::MonkeyShocked::


Dirty Hand is Lorenzo?  He's also the 5th suspect?  How did you decide this?  What part of Shango's riddles led you to this conclusion.  How did you get the white pickup from a Shango riddle?  I have never seen mention of a white truck in any of Shango...I really need a magic decoder ring.



LOL...I really am trying to leave, but YOU asked about a white pickup truck in reference to the VCB...Oh my...now I am confused!!! ::MonkeyWink::

And Anna...thanks...I was beginning to think Jossy was the news....great timing I agree...

 ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 03:10:44 PM
Memphis
I can only say what I remember is both Simian and Checkme worked in places near each other.  There is a post somewhere that either Simian or Checkme asked if the other was working tonight.  I can't remember where it is right now, but I run across it on occasion. Depends on whom you think is Checkme and Simian.  If you think they work in ALE then they might have been at separate police stations...it is confusing.  It's not like here where you can actually quote a person so everyone will know who you are talking to.  I think Klaas said they had different IP or email addys.  She would know.  If you think Simian wasn't ALE but was being fed info from ALE in some way the entire picture changes.   I know where you stand on this one.

Anna
So you think maybe Caps was talking about the Birmingham News?  That would be a stretch...a really long one at that. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 03:12:27 PM
::MonkeyHaHa:: DH DWELS IN SAVANETA  ::MonkeyHaHa::DANGER SM WALLS HAVE EARS. ::MonkeyShocked::


Dirty Hand is Lorenzo?  He's also the 5th suspect?  How did you decide this?  What part of Shango's riddles led you to this conclusion.  How did you get the white pickup from a Shango riddle?  I have never seen mention of a white truck in any of Shango...I really need a magic decoder ring.



LOL...I really am trying to leave, but YOU asked about a white pickup truck in reference to the VCB...Oh my...now I am confused!!! ::MonkeyWink::

And Anna...thanks...I was beginning to think Jossy was the news....great timing I agree...

 ::MonkeyWink::

As I understand it Caps said the road had been paved and mentioned a white pickup was there where he thinks Natalee is now...it's in here somewhere...I will have to hunt for it. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 03:15:42 PM

TEXT ARE BEEING UPDATE

SHAKED THE WIRES, PRIKICHI SING......

NH IN NEW PALACE IN SAVANETA HOUSE WITH WHITE PICKUP
THE NEW PALACE HAVE NEW ASPHALTE ENTRANCE

COME AND GET MARY BUT BRING POSSE COMITATUS EXEMPT

Klaasend:, LALA: ZIPPO
 



This is the reason for my question...I could not figure out how this post came from a Shango riddle.  I guess I did ask about it...I am lost now. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 03:18:09 PM
Confused again...Beth said she made them the day before, the 31st, with a picture from Natalee's camera....had to be in Aruba...right?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 03:21:11 PM

TEXT ARE BEEING UPDATE

SHAKED THE WIRES, PRIKICHI SING......

NH IN NEW PALACE IN SAVANETA HOUSE WITH WHITE PICKUP
THE NEW PALACE HAVE NEW ASPHALTE ENTRANCE

COME AND GET MARY BUT BRING POSSE COMITATUS EXEMPT

Klaasend:, LALA: ZIPPO
 



This is the reason for my question...I could not figure out how this post came from a Shango riddle.  I guess I did ask about it...I am lost now. LOL


Maybe it didn't....or if it did Caps will explain....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 03:23:05 PM
CORRECTION!!!!

It was Shockthemonkey (whom Caps claims is Aruba Top Prosecutor) that asks Simian if he is working...Sorry, my brain is fried after this week. 

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
Sim, you working tonight?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 03:27:57 PM
Please disregard my last NEWS reference...I am trying to multi task and read it all wrong...sorry Anna.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 03:28:03 PM
CORRECTION!!!!

It was Shockthemonkey (whom Caps claims is Aruba Top Prosecutor) that asks Simian if he is working...Sorry, my brain is fried after this week. 

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
Sim, you working tonight?



So...Vanessa knows where Sim works? And then what Caps said would make sense, if Sim is ALE, right?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on January 26, 2008, 03:30:07 PM
Caps....interesting concept that Mother Holland is Eden.....here's me going with that maybe it was the truth...

Lala's....remember the early rumors that Val left and came here....often wonder why he was questioned just 3 weeks before this last lot of arrests....and then there are two comments by Joran...one being....'Val is the one I want to speak to' and the other, I think on Joran's release - something about how 'grateful he is to Val'. Paulus never mentions Val, only going home to pick up Sebastion that night. He also tells about them going to school. So are we to believe that they were never in Holland with Anita? Remember the bathtub....

2NJs...I just saw that picture...thanks, I will go back and take another look...also there are 2 Jolly Pirate sites, one has 435 pics, and I didn't have time to go through them

Memphis....legal checkmate could be what Caps is referring to, or that over there you cannot testify against a family member, or neither of these. If it was the 'family' thing I wonder which son he would not want to testify against!

COLUMBO...are you 'trying' to tell me that there there is a connection between Aruba and St. Maarten or is it just the same MO? By the way,I believe Natalee was targeted, and that Joran is a pimp, but who is the #1 pimp?

He needs to tell the truth....



The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.

The lamb is a scapegoat.


Elder could be elder son (brother.)  Is Val, if he was in fact home, complicit in some way?  Was Anita really gone?  Does anyone know for sure?  First word was little brother home (younger than Joran would be called little brother.)  If anyone would be gone on a trip with his mom, it would seem like the baby brother.    Elder could be parent (s):  Elder could be a fallen church elder.

Judge: Is not a law clerk.  Now Rick Smid or Wit could easily fit the bill.  Have they fallen.  They keep releasing the suspects.  Who on the panel is releasing?  This Wit dude seemed awfully close to be a guest of Vandersloot.  When did he "pop" in.  I am not to hep on Smid or Wit.

Val is an expert at scuba diving from what I gather.  Palus would use any and everyone to keep his sorry but out of trouble.  Koen and G Cromvroit worked at Red Sail.  Koen worked on the Pirate (tourist attract.) ship.  They probably had more than one job doing fun jobs since they got to meet girls, have fun and get paid for it.  G. Cromvroit also worked beach patrol on some days and business security some days.  I am sure he was a good tax write-off being an employee and part of the family as well.  He had access to all the frills of security:  the vehicle, guns, badge, authority, and this would enable him to threaten arrest with the police backing.  He probably played a pretty dirty hand all the way around since there are pictures of him blowing a small dubie and looking quite handsome and non-threatening out of uniform.  He is the best looking of all those kids and would have little trouble scoring women, but he was apparently a bit obnoxious to NH as he slapped her on the rump.  Joran also either hit at NH or some scuffle started over his being obnoxious to her as well.  It would not be too out of reach to think they all got together to "teach her a lesson."   



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 03:30:34 PM
Maybe Shock is Aruba Top Prosecutor?  ::MonkeyShocked:: Now my question is who is Capslock?

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:24 pm
kristin .. i can not comment. But I told you two more arrests.

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The one with the longest legs begs …

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:29 pm
have you noticed you haven’t seen Mrs. Twitty lately? The last time you did, did you notice her sorrow? That should answer your question Kristin.

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:40 pm
Yes, something bad did happened. But it was an accident, it wasn’t meant to happen … as it did not happen on the beach as assumed, rather, it was in a house.

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
A substance was given to victim without knowledge. Substance served purpose … victim came to … suspect panics .. in an attempt to quiet victim, “something bad happens”

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:52 pm
Lily we are working 24 hrs to bring this to a resolution.

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:59 pm
No that’s not what it means Kristin. Premeditated requires planning. This was an accident perpetuated by a mallace act. It’s what happened after, that was premeditated …


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 03:31:03 PM
Lala's...do you need an edit button?

And if you're confused, how do you think I feel.....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 03:34:13 PM
ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:04 pm
New news comes to those who wait … Be patient!

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:12 pm
Tomorrow, we’re searching the waters

June 25th, 2005 at 11:18 pm
I am on the island and am involved in the matter (which I can not disclose how I am involved). I am blogging to keep you informed as this case has captured the world.

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:21 pm
Only doing my job. But thank you guys anyway.

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:25 pm
You will wake up with news tomorrow morning … can’t elaborate, so please don’t ask.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 03:35:05 PM
Lala's...do you need an edit button?

And if you're confused, how do you think I feel.....

Yes, I need an edit button and an eject button...some days I need to remove myself from the place. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 03:36:25 PM
 ::MonkeyEek:: when you say it like that!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 03:37:37 PM
Jack
You have me confused on this "elder" thing now...are you talking about a brother older than Joran?  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on January 26, 2008, 03:40:37 PM
Memphis
I can only say what I remember is both Simian and Checkme worked in places near each other.  There is a post somewhere that either Simian or Checkme asked if the other was working tonight.  I can't remember where it is right now, but I run across it on occasion. Depends on whom you think is Checkme and Simian.  If you think they work in ALE then they might have been at separate police stations...it is confusing.  It's not like here where you can actually quote a person so everyone will know who you are talking to.  I think Klaas said they had different IP or email addys.  She would know.  If you think Simian wasn't ALE but was being fed info from ALE in some way the entire picture changes.   I know where you stand on this one.

Anna
So you think maybe Caps was talking about the Birmingham News?  That would be a stretch...a really long one at that. 


No, this THE NEWS is in Aruba.  It's where Julia claims Beth made the Hootie poster or whatever.

.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on January 26, 2008, 03:44:35 PM
WoW!  Karen Janssen posts on forums?  No wonder she didn't have time to prosecute anybody between all the bridge and the forums!


But you'd expect her to be a little better informed if that's the case.

 ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on January 26, 2008, 03:45:50 PM
Tylergal
Is this what you meant about Absolam yesterday? WOW! 

http://www.blessedquietness.com/journal/homemake/biblest-usurper.htm


Try Faulkner.  I always thought that's what it meant if the word stated twice, title of Faulkner story?

Of course I could be totally wrong about that.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 03:49:09 PM
Bringing this over for those working on this in here....thanks Caps.

CapsLockWizard
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #139 on: Today at 02:05:40 PM »

Good day All Monkeys,

My eye are tired, brain cells are all on fire, excuse me for sometimes for posting typing errors or not perfect grammer, while trying to solve the riddle. My brain cell + 4 Computers are thinking in all possible scenarios, Current events, Political Events, Time Lines etc at the same time tried to ask questions, type, Decode, reassemble, re-analysis and reading information written from diffrent source of document written in 4 diffrent languages (DUTCH, PAPIAMENTO, SPANISH, ENGLISH can makes for these errors.

it is like trying to watch a Harry Potter Movie at High speed forward, understand a scenario and then rewind to put it in normal speed to read it while keeping on eye where you have heard or see a similarity in a scene that is going to happend or in this case already happend and not forgetting the questions asked to the SM Board to input in the instant flash scenarios that my synaptic are given me back.

I will solve this riddle.

and overview of the riddle movie that I see already in the making for what I have discovered from this riddle is:

it's a DRAMA, Suspense and Mystery movie all wrap in a deal package involving a Simple Conspiracy to get the MONEY to build the promised Ritz Carlton Hotel from and Self centered Egotistic Prime Minster and its Ministers Gangster WARS between the DUTCH PAIRLAMENTS and the Aruba Government for not given them to the MONEY for the sell of the PlantationBay Project.

Scene: Kiddnap a USA born Tourist and in this form force the DUTCH GOVERNMENT to release the MONEY and Also with the help from some one in the AHATA's well established MOB Controlled Tourist Enterprises to stage a KIDNAPP turning in a MURDER SCENE, with the promise to the actors in a form of a payback.

Resulting in EXTORTION MONEY GAINED to keep everyone happy. but leaving a real Victim in this case.

It must be playout as a real live event: REPOTERS and ACTORS, JUDGES, need to be to be there.

Consequences for the Bussines and Economies (TEEPEES) which will be hurting.

Fallback plan:
Will be the implementation of a Fiscal reform to get more money from the businesses in Aruba. The Fiscal  Reform that even the DUTCH PARLAMENT has thrown out the window because it hurts the economy. Anyone that has establish a business and have worked hard would not like to loose their business will comply by this Legal form of Extortion.

The Harvest: More Money from the Aruba and USA well establish enterprises. 120 thousant living souls and 2 + millions from other part of the world.
 
What we need to find out is who is playing what Part in the names in this Extortion / Murder movie.

Why they did it, MONEY
For What was the MONEY: A promised Project

My mom (77) says allways that "even strong jeans, if wear to much will get torn apart, but when washed, the fabric will come lose and when put through the dryer, the heat is so hot, that the fabric come loose and shreds"

so let them keep wearing the lies and we will keep washing till the fabric come loose, and when we applied the heat (the questions?), we will see all the lies and the monkeys can shred them by applying US Justice for all who is in the part.

My Task is to Decode and with help of other Monkeys we will Prevail for Natalee so that she can REST IN PEACE.


Klassend:

The Bondia newspaper this morning, Julia Renfro is getting herself out of the mess with a letter from the O.M. Aruba.
We have not even start the washing cycle yet and already she want to put protected armor coating on her self.

If she is clean there is no need for protected coating

THE CODEBREAKER

aha...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 03:53:50 PM
Tylergal
Is this what you meant about Absolam yesterday? WOW! 

http://www.blessedquietness.com/journal/homemake/biblest-usurper.htm


Try Faulkner.  I always thought that's what it meant if the word stated twice, title of Faulkner story?

Of course I could be totally wrong about that.

I understand now.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on January 26, 2008, 03:57:02 PM
Caps...Sorry another question....is there an Albert who worked at the Red Sail with Koen? TIA...


Sorry....this question should have been for jackb.....


Lala's...please check your mail....



From Jack B:  I do not know, but seems like there was an AB questioned at some point during the first few weeks or so of the investigation.  A dude, seems like with glasses, late twenties.  Looked like he would be some type businessman.  J/b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: BTgirl on January 26, 2008, 06:37:09 PM
Tylergal
Is this what you meant about Absolam yesterday? WOW! 

http://www.blessedquietness.com/journal/homemake/biblest-usurper.htm

King David loved Absalom in spite of the fact that Absalom had not been a loyal son to him. When Absalom was killed in battle, this is what happened:

And the king was much moved, and went up to the chamber over the gate, and wept: and as he went, thus he said, O my son Absalom, my son, my son Absalom! would God I had died for thee, O Absalom, my son, my son!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 26, 2008, 06:39:07 PM
Klaasend: or LALA

This riddle is two stories in one, to confused the readers.

it is like two story on top of each other, Pealing the layers and all comes clear

Question

Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles

Answer: two power groups that supposed to build the the Ritz Carloton but did not build it.

Who are they?




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on January 26, 2008, 06:54:24 PM
...not Klaas or Lala's but I will guess

Bazarian International Financial Associates + the Marriott Group?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sirensong on January 26, 2008, 07:09:36 PM
Something else I noticed....

#  Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:50 pm

Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.


This sounds like the same BS that the VDS's were spouting on the wine-throwing TV show.

I think Simian means either Holland (other side of the pond), or literally the other side of the pond in Montoya (near Joran's house?). 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 07:28:12 PM
Klaasend: or LALA

This riddle is two stories in one, to confused the readers.

it is like two story on top of each other, Pealing the layers and all comes clear

Question

Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles

Answer: two power groups that supposed to build the the Ritz Carloton but did not build it.

Who are they?




Don't know the answer yet...I will research for you...I got the feeling that Simian and Shango did not agree with each other on several occasions.  Please, take the time to explain this to me or at the least tell me if I have your theory right so far?  Please.

1. Natalee was chosen by Paulus to help provide money to save his son in a gambling debt.
2. Beth knew this from the beginning.
3. Lorenzo is the 5th suspect.  He is the boyfriend from earlier in the week and it was his party they took Natalee to.
4. Joran delivered her and then waited outside.  The Kalpoes are mainly innocent in all this.
5. They brought a dead Natalee out to Joran and he was left with what to do with her.
6.  Lorenzo is also dirty hand.
7. Guido was the casino worker that needed to be off from work to go to this party.
8.Joran somehow drove with a dead Natalee to this apartment and met around a pool trying to decide what to do.
9. Natalee was dumped in the pond at Montana, near Joran's house.
10. Joran was not responsible for Natalee's death only the disposal of the body.
11. Paulus was really a judge and he was the law as far as being able to manipulate things.
12. The Aruban Government has covered for Paulus in order to get money.
13. Karen Janssen was posting here on SM trying to tell us things without us knowing who she was.
14. Someone fled to the USA..I thought it was Sander at first, but now I am not sure.
15. The USA and Aruba are in this together because of the mob.
16. The plan to take Natalee was orchestrated by the first guy..I am assuming you mean Lorenzo or Guido..not sure, but then Joran messed it all up somehow.
17. J2K were paid to keep quiet.
18. Paulus was gambling and got into trouble in the casino and the mob wanted Joran.
19. Paulus went to Holland to get money to pay off his debt with no luck.
20. Debt needed to be paid within 10 days.
21. The mob is holding Joran and Paulus takes Natalee as a bargaining chip with the mob because she is an American citizen.
22.  The casino owner paid for the debt and then Paulus is left holding Natalee.
23. They bugged the houses to insure no one talked about this plan.
24. The guilty person got away and they moved Natalee's body to the house in Savaneta which now has a paved road and a white pickup truck.
25. Joran is not responsible and neither are the Kalpoes.

Please correct my mistakes that I have tried to glean from your posts.  Thanks.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 07:31:36 PM
Caps here a story from the FP about Ritz Carlton.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/07/11/ritz-carlton-to-aruba-no-incentives-no-deal-who-calls-the-shots-in-aruba/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 26, 2008, 07:32:14 PM
Klaasend: or LALA

This riddle is two stories in one, to confused the readers.

it is like two story on top of each other, Pealing the layers and all comes clear

Question

Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles

Answer: two power groups that supposed to build the the Ritz Carloton but did not build it.

Who are they?





"His Lordship's presence guarantees a trio"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m7WbQa_qDE


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 26, 2008, 07:34:48 PM
A little more abut the Ritz Carlton.

http://arubagirl.typepad.com/lost_in_smallness/2007/01/buhbye_ritz_car.html

http://www.vacationclub.com/corporate/corporateHistory.jsp


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 08:18:05 PM
Tylergal
Is this what you meant about Absolam yesterday? WOW! 

http://www.blessedquietness.com/journal/homemake/biblest-usurper.htm

King David loved Absalom in spite of the fact that Absalom had not been a loyal son to him. When Absalom was killed in battle, this is what happened:

And the king was much moved, and went up to the chamber over the gate, and wept: and as he went, thus he said, O my son Absalom, my son, my son Absalom! would God I had died for thee, O Absalom, my son, my son!




This is too weird...popped in to say hi to BT and say that I thought Tyler was saying something about layers as is referenced in the Wiki of thei and blow me down Caps next post is about pealing of the layers!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 08:27:40 PM
Caps...Sorry another question....is there an Albert who worked at the Red Sail with Koen? TIA...


Sorry....this question should have been for jackb.....


Lala's...please check your mail....



From Jack B:  I do not know, but seems like there was an AB questioned at some point during the first few weeks or so of the investigation.  A dude, seems like with glasses, late twenties.  Looked like he would be some type businessman.  J/b

Thanks jackb....was trying to find out about Albert Vrolijk, the guy that found the panties. I read the other day that one worked at the Red Sail, but this guy was a DJ and still is. Common name, but if one worked at Red Sail he would know Koen for sure. Interesting about A.B. I hadn't seen that...Thanks!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 08:29:54 PM
Is this Anna’s other Lorenzo?

 http://bfnbackup.16.forumer.com/a/hiram-vrolijk-friend-of-joran_post77.html


GrannyToad- 05-27-2006

Why does it matter who this boy is? He isn't even close to being one of the suspects. We never know if or which of Joran's pals were involved in what way with Natalee being disappeared, ladytiger. You have your personal interests, at BFN we want Natalee found or to learn how she was Disappeared. that doesn't mean that we have to discuss every distrant friend or every kid that was on the same school as a suspect. There are already way too much suspects to begin with. Discussing every person on the island in Joran's age group is not productive IMHO. ‘Ya spose? I knew about Guido a couple months before his name came up. Oh yeah, really last June except that Tito made a mistake and referred to him as Lorenzo. There is another Lorenzo, Wever, at that casino so I understand the mistake if Tito didn't know either well. So if in cases like Guido's and Koen's whom I'd also identified before they hit the blogs, it's good to know. Are there more to know, besides Freddy, Jaime, Steve Croes, the Kalpoe brothers ... ?’


GrannyToad- 05-27-2006

Ya spose? I knew about Guido a couple months before his name came up. Oh yeah, really last June except that Tito made a mistake and referred to him as Lorenzo. There is another Lorenzo, Wever, at that casino so I understand the mistake if Tito didn't know either well. So if in cases like Guido's and Koen's whom I'd also identified before they hit the blogs, it's good to know. Are there more to know, besides Freddy, Jaime, Steve Croes, the Kalpoe brothers ... ? Yes, I spose so. Guido may have been named in this investigation but, as his arrest and subsequent release show, that does not mean he had anything to do with this case. Being the friend of a suspect might bring closer scrutiny on an individual but is not the same as being a suspect or having his/her good name dragged through the dirt. That is one of the reasons why dutch media never release the names of suspects and witnesses. Their privacy needs to be protected. "dragged through the dirt". Get this: Joran's US attorney stated the other evening that Guido was with Joran until 2 AM the night of May 30/31. Charles Croes' group identified Deepak's car at the vdSloot's about 2AM. So. Was Guido also at that first alibi-concoction / legal advice meeting with Paul, Joran, and the Kalpoes that night? 2-3 hours later Joran did his V2 Show&Tell Presentation of the "dropped at her hotel" version for the victim's family, friends, US government agent, and Aruban locals. 10 witnesses in all. And 2 polis. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. Move along. Nothing going on here.







Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Helen Back on January 26, 2008, 08:59:46 PM
Caps...Sorry another question....is there an Albert who worked at the Red Sail with Koen? TIA...


Sorry....this question should have been for jackb.....


Lala's...please check your mail....



From Jack B:  I do not know, but seems like there was an AB questioned at some point during the first few weeks or so of the investigation.  A dude, seems like with glasses, late twenties.  Looked like he would be some type businessman.  J/b

Thanks jackb....was trying to find out about Albert Vrolijk, the guy that found the panties. I read the other day that one worked at the Red Sail, but this guy was a DJ and still is. Common name, but if one worked at Red Sail he would know Koen for sure. Interesting about A.B. I hadn't seen that...Thanks!

Mum and Jack

Not sure bu thought at one time this had been resolved.  Think it was another one of those intial/misspelled name screw up.  AB= Aaron (Aram) Batzis= Freddy.

Can't swear it but that's what I remember.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 26, 2008, 09:39:45 PM

Klassend:

Who did make the poster that says kidnapped. Who ever made the poster is the kidnapper

need an answer to put to a name

it is in the riddle


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 09:45:29 PM
Think I found my blue-eyed Dutchboy with the scratches and of course his phone was stolen...now let's see if the sitemeter goes crazy...LOL

: Mon May 22, 2006 1:22 am    Post subject:  from hyscience 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
You're welcome Harry. It has been interesting to read around and I may have just gotten more confused than clarified. I'm going to bed now. You and me seem to be the only one's up late tonight and commenting.

There seem to be enough folks speculating about three people that my guess is there will be if it has not happened already. I think your original assessment that this Wever arrest is more than a suspect, perhaps a real charge, is likely accurate. The only reason I might guess that it may not be is the interview with Joe T >> I just didn't get the impression that he was convinced since he stressed they had known about him since the beginning.

One post somewhere said that Weaver worked the casino the night Natalee disappeared, my impression was for a few hours after her disappearance, and that others who worked with him thought he acted nervous (that wasn't their adjective, but it was similar), then he abruptly quit after her disappearance and moved to Holland. It is claimed by some he had scratches and bruises after here disappearance, but some were disputing this. He and Joran also were alleged to have played tennis the afternoon after Natalee disappeared.

I did find over at Refugees that someone seems to think these below are the three people being arrested. They say that Guido Wever was arrested last Wed and is the subject of the Dutch news interview and the one that Aruba wants to come back to be charged,that his attorney will fight this. One person said this Wever is not Lorenzo, but I am not sure about that. One said that Wever is not his Dutch last name, but his Dutch name does not exist in Aruba so he is called Wever - I have no idea is this is accurate and did not see this posted but once.

There is some speculation that the Columbian that some claim to have been arrested in Aruba may be the famous Jossy witness gardener.

I'll just be tyou will have it all sorted out by Friday. Here are the three:


1. Guido Wever who use to work at the Excelcior Casino as "dealer", who use to play tennis at the Aruba Raquet club, and who is the son of a political party's leader, Robert Wever, was detained in the Netherlands.

2. Sander G. is the kid in school in Aruba that left before his finals and flew to Holland last week and now is detained in the Netherlands. (Some speculated that he is Koen's younger brother, but don't know if this is accurate.)

Carlos Alberto Penata Ramos is a Colombian man who was detained in Aruba. (Some speculated that he also is Jossy's gardener witness.)


 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 26, 2008, 09:55:13 PM
Caps...Sorry another question....is there an Albert who worked at the Red Sail with Koen? TIA...


Sorry....this question should have been for jackb.....


Lala's...please check your mail....



From Jack B:  I do not know, but seems like there was an AB questioned at some point during the first few weeks or so of the investigation.  A dude, seems like with glasses, late twenties.  Looked like he would be some type businessman.  J/b

Thanks jackb....was trying to find out about Albert Vrolijk, the guy that found the panties. I read the other day that one worked at the Red Sail, but this guy was a DJ and still is. Common name, but if one worked at Red Sail he would know Koen for sure. Interesting about A.B. I hadn't seen that...Thanks!

Mum and Jack

Not sure bu thought at one time this had been resolved.  Think it was another one of those intial/misspelled name screw up.  AB= Aaron (Aram) Batzis= Freddy.

Can't swear it but that's what I remember.



Thanks Helenback...the description jackb gave didn't fit Freddy, so I am still wondering.

And one more to confuuse Lala's....but my money is on a Gottenbos...LOL

Rjames forums…9/9/2005
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:LoWHbBrK9kIJ:www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/08/natalee_hollowa_48.html+%2B%22natalee+Holloway%22+%2Bbreakfast+%2Bbrunch+%2Bolder+man&hl=en
Posted by: Noplanstovisit | Aug 21, 2005 5:32:10 AM
"Tag team set up. Lorenzo Wever (casino employee, flew to Holland right after Natalee’s disappearance) befriends Natalie and makes sure he sits with her at breakfast so that observers will think something is going on between them (and maybe so, maybe not)."

"About all I'll say - 24 was the age I heard. And I am aware of a poker dealer who allegedly quit and left Aruba the day after he was questioned. Have no more info on that."
Posted by: Dan | Aug 21, 2005 3:14:08 AM


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Helen Back on January 26, 2008, 10:15:12 PM
Mum, I don't know who that description fits.  What a clusterfuque.

 ::MonkeyCool::

Can't picture Nat talking to Guido for more than two seconds. 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on January 26, 2008, 11:30:46 PM
::MonkeyHaHa:: DH DWELS IN SAVANETA  ::MonkeyHaHa::DANGER SM WALLS HAVE EARS. ::MonkeyShocked::
Please correct Me if I'm wrong but wasn't there a picture posted not too long ago of a house in Savaneta that was for sale or had sold that had a white pickup parked in front of it..I want to say it was Lorenzo's Mothers house....I just can't remember exactly.... ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on January 26, 2008, 11:55:14 PM
::MonkeyHaHa:: DH DWELS IN SAVANETA  ::MonkeyHaHa::DANGER SM WALLS HAVE EARS. ::MonkeyShocked::
Please correct Me if I'm wrong but wasn't there a picture posted not too long ago of a house in Savaneta that was for sale or had sold that had a white pickup parked in front of it..I want to say it was Lorenzo's Mothers house....I just can't remember exactly.... ::MonkeyConfused::

This does not have the white truck.......but I think this is LVR's mothers house for rent in Aruba. Found it on Ebay.........not sure who owns it now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230211679528&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=013


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on January 27, 2008, 12:05:47 AM
::MonkeyHaHa:: DH DWELS IN SAVANETA  ::MonkeyHaHa::DANGER SM WALLS HAVE EARS. ::MonkeyShocked::
Please correct Me if I'm wrong but wasn't there a picture posted not too long ago of a house in Savaneta that was for sale or had sold that had a white pickup parked in front of it..I want to say it was Lorenzo's Mothers house....I just can't remember exactly.... ::MonkeyConfused::

This does not have the white truck.......but I think this is LVR's mothers house for rent in Aruba. Found it on Ebay.........not sure who owns it now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230211679528&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=013
HI BB This is not the one I was thinking of ..the picture I'm talking about was like a side view of the house You could see the front of the house at an angle and the white truck was parked near the fence in front of the house maybe it was Lorenzo's house.....   ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 27, 2008, 08:38:29 AM
Good Morning all..

Sirensong…’other side of the pond’ if you google and go to forums on Aruba this is definitely Mother Holland

Hotping…Thanks … the white pickups belong to the polis. Per the pics posted on the other thread last night

Jackb….I think you are on to something with A.V. arrested/detained/questioned with  GVC on 4/15/2005…this is the Albert Vrolijk that worked at the Red Sail not the DJ. Need to know more about the altered pics.

Gunslinger…Thanks..the Gottenbos parents, the important others, the alibi that needs to be broken, were out of the country, not Koen, party was at the Gottenbos house – this is the nice house that Joran took Natalee to.

Lala’s….remember a few weeks back, I posted from news reports and posters about the two Dutch brothers that were arrested with Joran and the statement from Mickey John’s Mom about the 3 white boys from influential families. Will go back and find it all.

Is it Mirian that asks if the photo is a fake?

Why did ALE lead everyone away from the Gottenbos end of the island? Why did they come here? Better still, why were they allowed to? Where is Sander’s phone? What happened to the other arrest in the Netherlands, the one Jossy says had the scratches, at the time Guido was arrested?

Were the G. Mom and Dad the other 2 tickets on that plane with Anita? Relatives… Anita’s Mom 90th birhday IIRC!

From the MB'ers Natalee met a 'G' - Sander

We have often wondered why that island would protect the Sloots, well IMO they didn’t, they were protecting the Gottenbos’!

COLUMBO ... still working on your youtubes...LOL



Nancy Grace….6/14/2005

GRACE: To Mickey`s mother, Ann John. Ms. John, thank you for being with us.

ANN JOHN, MICKEY JOHN`S MOTHER: Thank you, too.

GRACE: Ms. John, do you believe that your son was arrested in the disappearance because of race?

ANN JOHN: No, I wouldn`t -- I wouldn`t really say that. What I`m trying to say that if they say the girl was picked up and put at the other end of the island, why are they coming to the other end of the island to look for evidence? That`s what I was -- I really want to know.

GRACE: Ms. John, does it upset you that your son was arrested while this judge`s son, Van Der Sloot, remained free?

ANN JOHN: Well, I think -- I think so because for the first or second day and the third day, I wasn`t hearing no names (INAUDIBLE) except the two ex-security guards.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 27, 2008, 08:44:50 AM

And I have left a window open on David, a rather large one at that, unless Tyler or BT can convince me otherwise….Remember the ‘Watch list” that Joran was on when he landed in New York.

  ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 27, 2008, 09:04:15 AM

Anyone know Sander’s middle name?

Recalling Steve’s arrest on the 17th…a lot of reports – from an influential family. Questioned on the 16th – the Gottenbos’

I have always looked at Steve, SGC, and tried to connect GVC. What about S. .G!

Found this yesterday…

GrannyToad- 05-31-2006

All last year we were told that Wiggins? verified that video surveillance had Steve sleeping on the Tattoo that night - and no party.


http://bfnbackup.16.forumer.com/a/more-rumors_post9-45.html




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 27, 2008, 09:26:28 AM
Caps....is it possible the brothers you mentioned were Koen and Sander and not Joran/Val/ Lorenzo?  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 27, 2008, 10:15:01 AM
I have thought the Gottenbos were a protected species also. Otherwise, how did they manage to get clear of this mess with such ease?  Something about fleeing to the USA made me think they certainly had a reason, given they owned a home in Aruba and their kids seemed well established there.  Koen and Sander fit the description of well-to-do Dutch brothers more than Joran and Val to me.  MOO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 27, 2008, 10:30:30 AM
I have thought the Gottenbos were a protected species also. Otherwise, how did they manage to get clear of this mess with such ease?  Something about fleeing to the USA made me think they certainly had a reason, given they owned a home in Aruba and their kids seemed well established there.  Koen and Sander fit the description of well-to-do Dutch brothers more than Joran and Val to me.  MOO



Morning Lala's....I am starting to think this is the correct path. Was Val there too? LOL came across this Sander stuff looking for the story change on the 22nd. from Joran!

Found this...Greta mentioned an alter in the Kalpoe's house and the other is about the famous pic.


Merian Ernest Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:48 am Post subject: Who is Simian?
The lines flow easily. Full sentences.

Everywhere you go, your dot will be on the dish. The thing is that it came back to haunt you.

Little altars built into their rooms. Only one rested, while the other went to the aide of foul mouthed one. Bite your tongue off now.

The elder is half the man he used to be. Dragging his feet on the lonely streets.


Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject: Who framed who?
Take a close look at the famous picture.

Deepak, Joran and Satish at C&C. Whose hand is on Satish's shoulder? Take another look.
A really good look.

It can never be the hand of any of the three.
 

Merian Ernest Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:07 pm Post subject: The mysterious hand...
See the hand. On the infamous picture in C&C. The boy in the middle and the Hindus on each side.

Whose hand is on the shoulder of the Hindu on he left? Somebody is missing on this picture.
Maybe somebody was placed on this picture?

It seems more people are vanishing in this case.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 27, 2008, 10:34:40 AM
The "hand" reference is about Freddy. He was left out of that picture when the media first began to use it.  I assume because he had not been mentioned in connection with the case at the time.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 27, 2008, 10:49:26 AM
The "hand" reference is about Freddy. He was left out of that picture when the media first began to use it.  I assume because he had not been mentioned in connection with the case at the time.


Darn...not Freddy...again...LOL...wish he tell the darned truth...and by the way Joran changed to Satish picked him up Feb 2006 and the only one I see interviewed around that time is of course Freddy!

Still need jackb to expand on the changed appearances etc...will have to go find that post.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: BTgirl on January 27, 2008, 10:58:44 AM

And I have left a window open on David, a rather large one at that, unless Tyler or BT can convince me otherwise….Remember the ‘Watch list” that Joran was on when he landed in New York.

  ::MonkeyEek::

Hi Mum,

Actually, I think Shango was confused when he said only David left the den alive. He surely was making a reference to Daniel in the lion's den. If that is the case, then we assume that Daniel/David be a reference to the person who came with Natalee to the "lion's den," but left alive while Natalee was killed there?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 27, 2008, 11:08:25 AM

And I have left a window open on David, a rather large one at that, unless Tyler or BT can convince me otherwise….Remember the ‘Watch list” that Joran was on when he landed in New York.

  ::MonkeyEek::

Hi Mum,

Actually, I think Shango was confused when he said only David left the den alive. He surely was making a reference to Daniel in the lion's den. If that is the case, then we assume that Daniel/David be a reference to the person who came with Natalee to the "lion's den," but left alive while Natalee was killed there?

Hi BT,

Thanks....That's why I left a window open, I think I have my David, just need his last name as we all know Joran lies. But he was at the raquet club the following day.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 27, 2008, 11:09:56 AM

And I have left a window open on David, a rather large one at that, unless Tyler or BT can convince me otherwise….Remember the ‘Watch list” that Joran was on when he landed in New York.

  ::MonkeyEek::

Hi Mum,

Actually, I think Shango was confused when he said only David left the den alive. He surely was making a reference to Daniel in the lion's den. If that is the case, then we assume that Daniel/David be a reference to the person who came with Natalee to the "lion's den," but left alive while Natalee was killed there?

So would that be Joran?  Caps said a few days ago that Joran delivered her to a place for a party or something like that and waited outside until they brought her back to him. Joran then carried her to this pool apartment, don't know if it was his place or not, and she died there or something like that.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 27, 2008, 11:16:19 AM

And I have left a window open on David, a rather large one at that, unless Tyler or BT can convince me otherwise….Remember the ‘Watch list” that Joran was on when he landed in New York.

  ::MonkeyEek::

Hi Mum,

Actually, I think Shango was confused when he said only David left the den alive. He surely was making a reference to Daniel in the lion's den. If that is the case, then we assume that Daniel/David be a reference to the person who came with Natalee to the "lion's den," but left alive while Natalee was killed there?

So would that be Joran?  Caps said a few days ago that Joran delivered her to a place for a party or something like that and waited outside until they brought her back to him. Joran then carried her to this pool apartment, don't know if it was his place or not, and she died there or something like that.


I had always thought it meant Joran, until I saw a David popping up! Undecided, but would like to know more....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on January 27, 2008, 11:18:49 AM
I have thought the Gottenbos were a protected species also. Otherwise, how did they manage to get clear of this mess with such ease?  Something about fleeing to the USA made me think they certainly had a reason, given they owned a home in Aruba and their kids seemed well established there.  Koen and Sander fit the description of well-to-do Dutch brothers more than Joran and Val to me.  MOO



Morning Lala's....I am starting to think this is the correct path. Was Val there too? LOL came across this Sander stuff looking for the story change on the 22nd. from Joran!

Found this...Greta mentioned an alter in the Kalpoe's house and the other is about the famous pic.


Merian Ernest Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:48 am Post subject: Who is Simian?
The lines flow easily. Full sentences.

Everywhere you go, your dot will be on the dish. The thing is that it came back to haunt you.

Little altars built into their rooms. Only one rested, while the other went to the aide of foul mouthed one. Bite your tongue off now.

The elder is half the man he used to be. Dragging his feet on the lonely streets.


Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject: Who framed who?
Take a close look at the famous picture.

Deepak, Joran and Satish at C&C. Whose hand is on Satish's shoulder? Take another look.
A really good look.

It can never be the hand of any of the three.
 

Merian Ernest Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:07 pm Post subject: The mysterious hand...
See the hand. On the infamous picture in C&C. The boy in the middle and the Hindus on each side.

Whose hand is on the shoulder of the Hindu on he left? Somebody is missing on this picture.
Maybe somebody was placed on this picture?

It seems more people are vanishing in this case.

It is freddy's hand.  I have a picture of this on my outside storage.    j/b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 27, 2008, 11:19:05 AM
This is what I am referring to from one of Capslock's psots:

From CapsLockWizard:


Here is what I think has happen:

From the casino Joran and the Kalpoes went to C&C while the Casino worker (#5) was left working, #5 tried to off him self with an other worker, then leave the casino to go to this Party place. (the house)

#5 call Joran to meet at this party place. At the party place Natalee overdose on #5, Joran Waited outside at the Party Place gate outside and when the gates open, #5 come out and handed the body of Natalee to Joran. The Kalpoes where there since they have follows Joran from C&C and went waithing at the Dutch own Apartment with the Pool near Joran Home for Joran and the girl to return.

Joran drove to the Pool Apartment and it is here that they plan what to do with the body. meanwhile at the the pool they waited for the girl to come Back to life (but she never retain a heartbeat).

The Apartment in question with the pool is just 5 min walk from Jorans his house.

Around the pool they deside to plan what to do and here is where Joran got cought in this web.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on January 27, 2008, 11:27:30 AM

And I have left a window open on David, a rather large one at that, unless Tyler or BT can convince me otherwise….Remember the ‘Watch list” that Joran was on when he landed in New York.

  ::MonkeyEek::

Hi Mum,

Actually, I think Shango was confused when he said only David left the den alive. He surely was making a reference to Daniel in the lion's den. If that is the case, then we assume that Daniel/David be a reference to the person who came with Natalee to the "lion's den," but left alive while Natalee was killed there?

Hi BT,

Thanks....That's why I left a window open, I think I have my David, just need his last name as we all know Joran lies. But he was at the raquet club the following day.

Found this a long time ago and copied it for reference.  Just happened to have it.  J/b

 looking back over some notes I took down way early in this case, I see that I wrote that a number of people left Aruba within days of Natalee going missing. They were: Michael Posner, owner of the Holiday Inn Sunspree &
Excelsior Casino, Jacobus Lorenzo"David" Wever, the Casino Manager; Paul
Brough aka Mr. Pink of Pink Productions, a widely distributed porn site; Alberto
Levy-Nacam, Operations Manager of Carlos N Charlies of Aruba, Guido Wever,
Blackjack Dealer, Coupier at the Excelsior Casino; Van der Straaten, Chief of
Polis in Aruba, the predecessor of Karen Jannsen, Chief Prosecutor of the Dutch Judicial Dept.-Koen Gottenbos, cousin of Joran Van der Sloot, Lorenzo
Van Rijn, owner of an auto and 4 wheeler company in Aruba, and R & S Auto
Repair shop down near the Barcadera area and the Free Port, where drugs are imported into the island via boats, helicopter, small private planes.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 27, 2008, 11:34:48 AM
This is what I am referring to from one of Capslock's psots:

From CapsLockWizard:


Here is what I think has happen:

From the casino Joran and the Kalpoes went to C&C while the Casino worker (#5) was left working, #5 tried to off him self with an other worker, then leave the casino to go to this Party place. (the house)

#5 call Joran to meet at this party place. At the party place Natalee overdose on #5, Joran Waited outside at the Party Place gate outside and when the gates open, #5 come out and handed the body of Natalee to Joran. The Kalpoes where there since they have follows Joran from C&C and went waithing at the Dutch own Apartment with the Pool near Joran Home for Joran and the girl to return.

Joran drove to the Pool Apartment and it is here that they plan what to do with the body. meanwhile at the the pool they waited for the girl to come Back to life (but she never retain a heartbeat).

The Apartment in question with the pool is just 5 min walk from Jorans his house.

Around the pool they deside to plan what to do and here is where Joran got cought in this web.


Gottebos' have a gate, but not a 5 minute walk

The casino worker, Lorenzo Wever, that I found last night.(I like the breakfast theory)

Jackb...Thanks..I have seen both pictures, just throwing it all out there to see if anything sticks...as San said...nothing sticks to Freddy!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 27, 2008, 11:37:03 AM
mum:

re: youtubes......

always believed tat context is needed........
 ::MonkeyCool::



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 27, 2008, 11:38:41 AM

And I have left a window open on David, a rather large one at that, unless Tyler or BT can convince me otherwise….Remember the ‘Watch list” that Joran was on when he landed in New York.

  ::MonkeyEek::

Hi Mum,

Actually, I think Shango was confused when he said only David left the den alive. He surely was making a reference to Daniel in the lion's den. If that is the case, then we assume that Daniel/David be a reference to the person who came with Natalee to the "lion's den," but left alive while Natalee was killed there?

Hi BT,

Thanks....That's why I left a window open, I think I have my David, just need his last name as we all know Joran lies. But he was at the raquet club the following day.

Found this a long time ago and copied it for reference.  Just happened to have it.  J/b

 looking back over some notes I took down way early in this case, I see that I wrote that a number of people left Aruba within days of Natalee going missing. They were: Michael Posner, owner of the Holiday Inn Sunspree &
Excelsior Casino, Jacobus Lorenzo"David" Wever, the Casino Manager; Paul
Brough aka Mr. Pink of Pink Productions, a widely distributed porn site; Alberto
Levy-Nacam, Operations Manager of Carlos N Charlies of Aruba, Guido Wever,
Blackjack Dealer, Coupier at the Excelsior Casino; Van der Straaten, Chief of
Polis in Aruba, the predecessor of Karen Jannsen, Chief Prosecutor of the Dutch Judicial Dept.-Koen Gottenbos, cousin of Joran Van der Sloot, Lorenzo
Van Rijn, owner of an auto and 4 wheeler company in Aruba, and R & S Auto
Repair shop down near the Barcadera area and the Free Port, where drugs are imported into the island via boats, helicopter, small private planes.




Thanks...jackb....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on January 27, 2008, 11:39:06 AM
Klaasend: or LALA

This riddle is two stories in one, to confused the readers.

it is like two story on top of each other, Pealing the layers and all comes clear

Question

Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles

Answer: two power groups that supposed to build the the Ritz Carloton but did not build it.

Who are they?




For some reason I always took this to mean she was being abused on the beach as well after possibly fleeing the party and perhaps being temporarily buried until disposal or until a more secure place could be found.   Jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 27, 2008, 11:42:27 AM
JVDS reminds Deepak (on singing beetles):

"They control you"




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Helen Back on January 27, 2008, 11:44:56 AM

And I have left a window open on David, a rather large one at that, unless Tyler or BT can convince me otherwise….Remember the ‘Watch list” that Joran was on when he landed in New York.

  ::MonkeyEek::

Hi Mum,

Actually, I think Shango was confused when he said only David left the den alive. He surely was making a reference to Daniel in the lion's den. If that is the case, then we assume that Daniel/David be a reference to the person who came with Natalee to the "lion's den," but left alive while Natalee was killed there?

Hi BT,

Thanks....That's why I left a window open, I think I have my David, just need his last name as we all know Joran lies. But he was at the raquet club the following day.

Found this a long time ago and copied it for reference.  Just happened to have it.  J/b

 looking back over some notes I took down way early in this case, I see that I wrote that a number of people left Aruba within days of Natalee going missing. They were: Michael Posner, owner of the Holiday Inn Sunspree &
Excelsior Casino, Jacobus Lorenzo"David" Wever, the Casino Manager; Paul
Brough aka Mr. Pink of Pink Productions, a widely distributed porn site; Alberto
Levy-Nacam, Operations Manager of Carlos N Charlies of Aruba, Guido Wever,
Blackjack Dealer, Coupier at the Excelsior Casino; Van der Straaten, Chief of
Polis in Aruba, the predecessor of Karen Jannsen, Chief Prosecutor of the Dutch Judicial Dept.-Koen Gottenbos, cousin of Joran Van der Sloot, Lorenzo
Van Rijn, owner of an auto and 4 wheeler company in Aruba, and R & S Auto
Repair shop down near the Barcadera area and the Free Port, where drugs are imported into the island via boats, helicopter, small private planes.




Thanks...jackb....

Was not aware of this one.  wow



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 27, 2008, 11:51:12 AM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:06 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:09 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles
DirtyHand knows this
Children of the Elders play in the maze, (play=pimps)
but DirtyHand is afraid to rave

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:29 pm
Babylonians and Shivas do not play with sandcastles
Follow the music!
Mary who was not a Virgin entered the maze to discover it’s secrets

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:32 pm
THE DRAX SCORES
drax Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles=
they weren’t on the beach?

DirtyHand holds the key to the secrets of the SlanderFoot Clan

Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 2:39 am
The arawaks must hunt the lions
in the place of darkness
house of secrets   (DH holds the real key-to open unknown doors)

Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 1:55 am
Find the music
Only David left the den alive  (the father?)

Babylonians and Shivas do not play with sandcastles
Follow the music!
Mary who was not a Virgin entered the maze to discover its secrets


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 27, 2008, 11:52:14 AM
COLUMBO ....will look at them tomorrow....

jackb...Lorenzo/David/Wever all rolled into one ... WOW

Not the David I was thinking of, but I do like this one!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on January 27, 2008, 12:04:03 PM
COLUMBO ....will look at them tomorrow....

jackb...Lorenzo/David/Wever all rolled into one ... WOW

Not the David I was thinking of, but I do like this one!

Died in March 2006

http://www.mementomori.net/06069.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on January 27, 2008, 12:05:12 PM
Jack
You have me confused on this "elder" thing now...are you talking about a brother older than Joran?  TIA

elders could be parents
elder could be elder sibling (Koen/Sander, Joran/Val
elder could be elder of a church or "civiv" organization (ie.,lions)
elder could be the older of the two or oldest of the bunch. 

It seems "elder" goes in there somewhere, but how it is meant to be used may be used more than one way.       Jack/b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 27, 2008, 12:21:52 PM
COLUMBO ....will look at them tomorrow....

jackb...Lorenzo/David/Wever all rolled into one ... WOW

Not the David I was thinking of, but I do like this one!

Died in March 2006

http://www.mementomori.net/06069.html


Audreselda Wever questioned by Jacobs the day before...coincidence....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on January 27, 2008, 12:40:26 PM
Keep talking Mum...I am listening with both ears this time. LOL


Me too...darn phone ...so what do you think Simian meant by 'too difficult to post here'?

Can only be a few things...
Taken off the island
Held in a crackhouse or house
something 'bad' happened
kidnapped...per Caps
Any more

cremated ......but I'm not really here........

I hope not, but agree it is a strong possibillity. (But I did see you...LOL)

Still trying to read a little of that thread, and I think that Joran's confession was on the 16th, and the one on the 10th was possibly Satish....No more questions for Satish....LOL

Quoted from CNN journalistCAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. There is a breaking news out of Aruba. Aired June 9, 2005 - 07:0 ET    Karl Penhaul is in Aruba on the phone now with the latest



HEMMER: Certainly is. Breaking news from Aruba just moments ago, learning there are new arrests now in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

Karl Penhaul is in Aruba on the phone now with the latest.

Karl, what did you find out?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bill, three young men have been arrested in connection with the investigation for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. As we speak, their homes are being searched for clues and any evidence that prosecutors can glean.

The island's chief prosecutor, Karen Janssen, has told me that the three men who are now arrested are the three men last seen in Natalee Holloway's company. Those are the three men with whom she left the Carlos and Charlie's Mexican bar in the wee small hours of the Monday when she disappeared. That then takes the note to five the total of people now arrested in this case over the weekend. Of course, those two other suspects, two security guards who were arrested and who yesterday have been detained for further eight days -- Bill.

HEMMER: Karl, what's the relationship between the three men picked up last night and the two men in court yesterday?

PENHAUL: Defense attorneys say there's absolutely no relationship between the group at all, that the group of two arrested over the weekend do not know the group of three now arrested. That, though, is obviously a key relationship which the police and prosecutors will be closely looking at. We do, of course, know that the three young men arrested this morning are friends. They do know one another, and they had been at Charlie and Carlos' bar.

HEMMER: Karl Penhaul watching that story in Aruba with breaking news. Again, to repeat, three others taken into custody overnight in Aruba, three young men who were seen at that bar with Natalee Holloway more than a week ago. So as Karl watches that in Aruba, we'll watch it here. More news when we get it.

Aired June 9, 2005 - 07:0 ET    Karl Penhaul is in Aruba on the phone now with the latest







Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on January 27, 2008, 12:50:35 PM
COLUMBO ....will look at them tomorrow....

jackb...Lorenzo/David/Wever all rolled into one ... WOW

Not the David I was thinking of, but I do like this one!

Aruba seems to have a huge problem getting news about this case out on the wire, or even from private citizens.  There is a HUGE name with the AP, Margaret Weaver, I believe it is, wonder if there is a connection.  She is one of the chief honchos as AP.  I am not into trying to get a connection here, but someone may be.  I have right many irons in the fire already.      Jack b

Died in March 2006

http://www.mementomori.net/06069.html


Audreselda Wever questioned by Jacobs the day before...coincidence....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Helen Back on January 27, 2008, 12:52:39 PM
Jack
You have me confused on this "elder" thing now...are you talking about a brother older than Joran?  TIA

elders could be parents
elder could be elder sibling (Koen/Sander, Joran/Val
elder could be elder of a church or "civiv" organization (ie.,lions)
elder could be the older of the two or oldest of the bunch. 

It seems "elder" goes in there somewhere, but how it is meant to be used may be used more than one way.       Jack/b


Sometimes I check urban dictionary etc. for other or slang uses for words.  Has anyone ever heard of "elder" used in reference to gay men?
 :smt102
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 27, 2008, 02:10:24 PM
LALA, Klaasend:
Remeber the day that I asked to take a look at Simian Riddle

Then I asked for the Shango Riddle.   well it is almost solve.


Well Monkeys here is a peek...

text in the brackets are the keys and substitution for what is in front of the bracket Underline



Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:16 pm
You must remember
The Arawaks (Reporter) placed singing beetles (the Source) with the Babylonian(Sloot’s) and the two Shivas (Kalpoes)
They were never alone

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:22 pm
Because the fallen judge (now a Lawyer) agreed, he can sing any song he wants
A poisonous siren in the halls of babylon
He will sing to keep doors open, much to the cowboys (Holloway’s) distress

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:26 pm
The maze (laws) of Babylon (Netherland) is very difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent
The Arawaks (Reporter) cannot reveal their singing  (the source) card
many teepees (Business) would be destroyed and the cowboys (Holloway’s) would get upset.
the singing (the source) card is bad luck for wampum (economy) for many moons (months)
So there must be some type of sacrifice
The gods (Aruba Government) are hungry, the cowboys (Holloway’s) are hungry
Great disruption in the halls (department) of Babylonian (dutch) palace (government)


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks (Aruba Law Enforcement) hold singing card from Babylon (………...)
There is also a trio. One Babylonian (Sloot’s). 2 Shivas (Kalpoes).
Arawaks (Aruba Law Enforcement) can’t let babylonian (Sloot’s)Card sing because hand holding it (an Aruba law enforcement) dirty too.
Many teepees (Police) fall. No Wampum.(Security)
Cowboys (FBI) eat Sacrifice. Arawaks (Aruba Law Enforcement) eat sacrifice.
Dirty hand (an Aruba Law Enfrocement) stays hidden, but all are well-fed.
Cowboys (FBI) happy, but unrest in the halls of the palace (the government)
Babylon (……………) owes the Arawaks (Reporter)!

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians (MIU) knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks ,(Aruba Law Enforccement)
The way is clouded for the sacrifice (Joran)
Rules have changed, so has the maze


the way is lost for the pioneers who went to live among the indians
The flames are growing
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police (………..);
to spare the teepees (The Police Department)
Singing cards have lost their power
Arawaks (Reporter) worried about being caught with dirty hand
His lordship (M.O.) will bestow the title soon….. See date Bondia 20-01-2008
They will save the teepees (the Police department) and the palace, (Aruba Government)
but first
The Sacrifice

I have it in word format with colors and Underlines and it look much eazy to read.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on January 27, 2008, 04:07:59 PM
Caps

The code is confusing.

Arawaks= Reporter sometimes. ALE sometimes ??
teepees= businesses sometimes, police sometimes??


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 27, 2008, 04:19:48 PM


Tknks for mention it... but it is not an error

the coder of this document use The Arawak, Arawaks and arawak

so you have to search for a definition that make sense first form an event and use that to search the whole document for the same presice word. and replace it , I did not repace the text to remember where I have seen the text before.

The coder also uses The Cowboys and the cowboys

the cowboys are 44 time in the text and Cowboys are 4

the work key comes in all the text and in single size means there is no varations

Eden

eden

Eden is beconning == is where the will meet but they cover it up like it is a project that sopose to be build at the hotel sire.

the fist clue is = lose is babylonia offspring = dutch





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 27, 2008, 04:23:38 PM

I was in the process to correct the error in speeling and I am being disconnect

the riddle is all done the only thing left was to put the player in this movie..



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on January 27, 2008, 04:25:32 PM
We are experiencing some server issues.  I've been having problems as well.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on January 27, 2008, 04:25:59 PM
Caps

I was no good, at this topic, the first time around.  I have not improved.

When you are done, please post what you think happened to Natalee.

TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 27, 2008, 08:41:43 PM

Strange…the link to the Lions from yesterday….today poof!!!!

  ::MonkeyWaa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 27, 2008, 08:52:33 PM
















For texasmom...

Seems like another deceased Wever……………

http://www.lawyersaruba.com/


Edit from earlier….Audreyselda Wever

From jackb...Margaret Wever...AP









foe texasmom


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 27, 2008, 09:08:19 PM
texasmom....I was going to ask Buckeye for the link to the Wever' family tree and saw your post on the other thread. LOL

Maybe Lorenzo/David is Guido's grandpa?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 27, 2008, 09:11:17 PM
Caps....how is the decoding going?

Helenback....thanks for the info on the elders


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on January 27, 2008, 09:23:39 PM
texasmom....I was going to ask Buckeye for the link to the Wever' family tree and saw your post on the other thread. LOL

Maybe Lorenzo/David is Guido's grandpa?
Thanks for the info and link Mum!
That's what I was attempting to find, but hadn't found much when all of my computer problems started.   ::MonkeyEek::  One of the links that came up in my search showed JLW as a member of the Chamber but I'm sure everyone knew that already.  From the looks of that law link they've got EVERYTHING anyone could think of doing covered as far as the law goes. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 27, 2008, 09:29:28 PM
texasmom....I was going to ask Buckeye for the link to the Wever' family tree and saw your post on the other thread. LOL

Maybe Lorenzo/David is Guido's grandpa?
Thanks for the info and link Mum!
That's what I was attempting to find, but hadn't found much when all of my computer problems started.   ::MonkeyEek::  One of the links that came up in my search showed JLW as a member of the Chamber but I'm sure everyone knew that already.  From the looks of that law link they've got EVERYTHING anyone could think of doing covered as far as the law goes. 

Did you notce Hendrick Croes - Rudy's brother is a partner, a senior one I bet since Mr Wever is no longer with us. Those Wever men don't seem to make it to 70! Don't understand how the married women take their name and would be interested if you can work it out. TIA



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Helen Back on January 27, 2008, 09:35:43 PM
Caps....how is the decoding going?

Helenback....thanks for the info on the elders

YW.  I've never heard that expression, but hey, there's a lot I don't know.   ::MonkeyWink::

Not sure it fits where Caps is going, but I guess we'll find out later.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 27, 2008, 09:50:32 PM

Klaasend:


In the Riddle, Shango is referring to ....cowboys      ....The cowboys

at this moment I have booth as a Holloway's, and everyone got mad.

The Question is The cowboy is allways returning to fort with no loot

This must be either a MOB from the USA or it a branch of the or DEA

Arawak is Language of the Suriname  ---> very odd

I do remember Simian was say
 that there was an operation going "the Federales"

The Simian is for real. The Simian doesn't have much respect for Shango.
Listen to the Simian when he says that the Federales are looking at the many forked tongues that live where the Yellowhammer calls home.
PS it is 149. Ivy qualified.

Here Simian explains that he is for real and that the FEDS are here to investigate all the Suriname who is driving a Yellow Hummer,
He has no respect for Shango.

Note: there is only one Yellow Hummer in Aruba and it belongs to a rich Surinam's Family, they are the Surinam's MOBS and are all Young kids

Q. Would there be some that the Surinam's kidnapped Natalee for Since some one dirt did not bring the money for the product from last week.

Just looking for answer...it is that The cowboy is returning to fort with no loot.

it is either a drug transaction went on last week (remember we know what She did last week) but they are not talking about Natalee. They are taking that last week who ever was here did not paid for what he took to the USA. The "what ever it is" must belong to the Surinam's.

and so "The cowboy had 10 days to come up with the money or we will take one of you back to Holland as a ranson till payback time"

sons fetch but smells like some drug deal gone bad from last week, between someone in the USA and Holland/Surinam's mob





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 27, 2008, 09:56:59 PM

the word "cowboys" is BETH Holloway.

the word "The cowboys" is someone else.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on January 27, 2008, 09:58:57 PM
CapsLock - very possible somehow what happened to Natalee got mixed up with something much bigger.


IMO - Simian was ALE and I'm pretty sure which ALE I think he was

Simian always posted from Aruba

Shango always posted from Florida

In the beginning, Simian was pretty straight forward with what he was telling us.  It wasn't until towards the end where it appeared either someone got to him or he changed his tune.

Shango was always cryptic in his posts


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 27, 2008, 10:10:09 PM

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:09 pm
The whisperer is on the line. The Babylonians (The Marine Intervention Unit - MIU) know what happened, but their hands are tied. They do not own the hammer nor the block.
The owner (.....) of the hammer (The Yellow Hummer) and the block (drug) will never carry the package from the Hague. The trias works infallibly.
The party-go-ers need to be pinched, but no one wants to be the cafone. Including the boy. Too much is at stake and he is no Ajax. He is biting his tongue so he won’t be able to speak. So afraid he is.


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:06 pm
Young Babylonians (Surinams) and Shivas (Natalee) do not build (goto) sand castles (Ritz Carlton area).

I am now affraid the the Surinams kidnapp her.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on January 27, 2008, 10:11:03 PM
texasmom....I was going to ask Buckeye for the link to the Wever' family tree and saw your post on the other thread. LOL

Maybe Lorenzo/David is Guido's grandpa?
Thanks for the info and link Mum!
That's what I was attempting to find, but hadn't found much when all of my computer problems started.   ::MonkeyEek::  One of the links that came up in my search showed JLW as a member of the Chamber but I'm sure everyone knew that already.  From the looks of that law link they've got EVERYTHING anyone could think of doing covered as far as the law goes. 

Did you notce Hendrick Croes - Rudy's brother is a partner, a senior one I bet since Mr Wever is no longer with us. Those Wever men don't seem to make it to 70! Don't understand how the married women take their name and would be interested if you can work it out. TIA



Yes I did notice HC, his experience and areas of practice are very concerning when you add his reputation and (brother) in, lol.  I noticed also about the short lives of the Wever men, the one of them was only 64.  Curious about what they died from....hope HC didn't give him a little push.  I know that's not funny but who knows with all the hand in the pocket suicides we've seen.  As far as the women's names...do you mean keeping their maiden names after marriage?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on January 27, 2008, 10:32:01 PM
O.K. let me begin by saying that this may not mean anything but it caught my eye while on one of the geneology pages and I knew that the word was in the riddle a few times.  Everyone may know this already, I am just putting it out there because I don't remember hearing it.  Please don't attack me if it's ridiculous in your opinion, I'm just a mom trying to help....

LACLE - French meaning The Key



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 27, 2008, 10:51:31 PM
O.K. let me begin by saying that this may not mean anything but it caught my eye while on one of the geneology pages and I knew that the word was in the riddle a few times.  Everyone may know this already, I am just putting it out there because I don't remember hearing it.  Please don't attack me if it's ridiculous in your opinion, I'm just a mom trying to help....

LACLE - French meaning The Key



Texasmom:

The Key is in only two places

one leads to Beth Holloway searchin for Natalee

The other is the Money


now that I have almost all in it shows two reports on 1 long page. But try to sepate them now..I see two stories one is about a investigation and the Surinams  and the othe is about the a kidnapp.

the last two pages is a summary of what to do





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on January 28, 2008, 12:19:57 AM



Texasmom:

The Key is in only two places

one leads to Beth Holloway searchin for Natalee

The other is the Money


now that I have almost all in it shows two reports on 1 long page. But try to sepate them now..I see two stories one is about a investigation and the Surinams  and the othe is about the a kidnapp.

the last two pages is a summary of what to do





Thanks for the response Caps!  I look forward to your final reports.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on January 28, 2008, 01:09:13 AM
Caps I Too look forward to reading Your final reports and I would like to Thank You for All Your Hard Work.....Sincerely PC  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 28, 2008, 06:00:39 AM
O.K. let me begin by saying that this may not mean anything but it caught my eye while on one of the geneology pages and I knew that the word was in the riddle a few times.  Everyone may know this already, I am just putting it out there because I don't remember hearing it.  Please don't attack me if it's ridiculous in your opinion, I'm just a mom trying to help....

LACLE - French meaning The Key



Thanks...again! Will store for future reference as I just did a little checking on a Richard Lacle, who is in a Federal prison for moneylaundering. It stemmed from a case in Trinadad and Tabago about the new airport contracts....contracts....another coincidence....And of course there is another Richard Lacle, and he has a lot to do with the Port Authority.

And then we have Tito...the bearer of a heap of confusion. He didn't know the difference between 69 year old Lorenzo/David Wever and young Guido Wever! And somehow managed to confuse everyone on an apparent upcoming arrest in the Netherland at the same time that Guido was arrested. Which, by the way appears to have never happened. things that make you go hmmmm!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 28, 2008, 06:07:09 AM
Lala's....did you just put all those 'shock' posts together? Funny how things jump out at you when they are taken 'out of context' LOL

Now....back to rereading....and trying to understand what COLUMBO is trying to tell me...'in context'....



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on January 28, 2008, 06:17:16 AM
Reposting for Caps.  Don't know if I believe the Suriname connection....but...I do wonder why Dompig drives a Mercedes....

I really am not well versed in this.  I was reading around, the other day, and was struck by an abbreviation.  I'm sure it means nothing , but here it is:

DNA is DeNationale Assembly  (Suriname parliament); (Caricom conference May 25, 2005).  I don't really think it's anything, but since there's a few with Surinamese (sp?) backgrounds, thought I would post it.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:41 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA


 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 28, 2008, 06:22:36 AM
Buckeye...I think you posted the link to the Lions....well it was there on Saturday and when I went back last night and rechecked this morning...it is an error page...wh would have thought after all this time...I think I will change my name to coincidence!!!


And Dompig now has a brand new business after he was supposedly fired.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 28, 2008, 06:33:29 AM
Lala's....I was looking for a statement as to why Joran 'shut down' on the 22nd and found on 6/24 he refused to talk and go with police as he said Anita was coming to see him at 2pm. He would not talk until Paulus was released and also until he received word from Carlos.

Anyways...check out the second statement...and what he did talk about after he apparently met with Anita and received word from Carlos.

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/police_documents/joran624.htm





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on January 28, 2008, 06:45:19 AM
Buckeye...I think you posted the link to the Lions....well it was there on Saturday and when I went back last night and rechecked this morning...it is an error page...wh would have thought after all this time...I think I will change my name to coincidence!!!


And Dompig now has a brand new business after he was supposedly fired.


Mum
Not me...maybe jackb....gotta go.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on January 28, 2008, 07:22:27 AM
texasmom....I was going to ask Buckeye for the link to the Wever' family tree and saw your post on the other thread. LOL

Maybe Lorenzo/David is Guido's grandpa?

Have picture.  Youngish about mid to late twenties, maybe.  Probably about 30 now.
Supposed to be friends with Jerry Strawberry who is supposed to be Cheremy Croes and Quincy?  Went to colligo in Aruba.  Lives in Netherlands.  Supposed to be homo.
Have picture.  Short hair, flat top. Dark eyes, maybe even dark blue appears they could be, nice looking, not fat, perhaps healthy looking. Nicely dressed, very neat.  Had on red shirt.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on January 28, 2008, 07:39:14 AM
CapsLockWizard,

So Yellowhammer does not refer to the bird that is the official bird of the State of Alabama as some of us had always thought but mean Yellow HUMMER, the car?

How did you determine there was only one of those in Aruba in 2005?

Is there a way to search the vehicle registrations?  I have always wanted to be able to do that and look for certain car registrations.

Thanks for any info on how to do this.

Anna


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on January 28, 2008, 07:43:18 AM
Lala's....I was looking for a statement as to why Joran 'shut down' on the 22nd and found on 6/24 he refused to talk and go with police as he said Anita was coming to see him at 2pm. He would not talk until Paulus was released and also until he received word from Carlos.

Anyways...check out the second statement...and what he did talk about after he apparently met with Anita and received word from Carlos.

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/police_documents/joran624.htm





Sent pic to Klaas at hotmail add of who is supposed to be David Wever.    j/b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 28, 2008, 07:52:04 AM
texasmom....I was going to ask Buckeye for the link to the Wever' family tree and saw your post on the other thread. LOL

Maybe Lorenzo/David is Guido's grandpa?

Have picture.  Youngish about mid to late twenties, maybe.  Probably about 30 now.
Supposed to be friends with Jerry Strawberry who is supposed to be Cheremy Croes and Quincy?  Went to colligo in Aruba.  Lives in Netherlands.  Supposed to be homo.
Have picture.  Short hair, flat top. Dark eyes, maybe even dark blue appears they could be, nice looking, not fat, perhaps healthy looking. Nicely dressed, very neat.  Had on red shirt.



Thanks jackb...So the Lorenzo 'David' Wever that died is not the same Lorenzo Wever!

Anna...if you are still here...you posted once that there was two Lorenzo's...is this the other one?  TIA...and yes I am surprised about the hummer. On the lighter side ...I believe 'King' LeBron James drives a yellow one! LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 28, 2008, 07:55:26 AM
Lala's....I was looking for a statement as to why Joran 'shut down' on the 22nd and found on 6/24 he refused to talk and go with police as he said Anita was coming to see him at 2pm. He would not talk until Paulus was released and also until he received word from Carlos.

Anyways...check out the second statement...and what he did talk about after he apparently met with Anita and received word from Carlos.

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/police_documents/joran624.htm





Sent pic to Klaas at hotmail add of who is supposed to be David Wever.    j/b


Thanks again...I am getting totally confused between David and Lorenzo ...LOL..I think I'll make some more coffee!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 28, 2008, 08:04:17 AM
Lala's...I bet you have probably seen this from 5/16/2006.. LOL

http://therealarubatruth.blogspot.com/2006/05/interesting-rumors.html

I'm straight on your David Wever now jackb...I hope Klaas will post that pic.

Still interested in my David....from Joran's book and I am working on him.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on January 28, 2008, 08:49:35 AM
Lala's... this is the day Joran refused to talk and I cannot remember what his reason was. Something to do with Paulus, maybe to talk to his lawyer? and later on he changes his story, again. Is this the story that Satish picked him up? I think it was. So what does that have to do with Paulus being arrested. Some posters trying to put the blame on 2K though.

A couple of interesting posts by Lucy...the one about 'are you there' and a few minutes later Simian posts. Also the one about the 5th suspect....'he was filming himself'. Is thes a Brough connection to Lorenzo or my best bud Freddy?

That 'whole time' thing still bugs me.....


Still here just trying to take it all in....LOL
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bill, three young men have been arrested in connection with the investigation for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. As we speak, their homes are being searched for clues and any evidence that prosecutors can glean.

The island's chief prosecutor, Karen Janssen, has told me that the three men who are now arrested are the three men last seen in Natalee Holloway's company. Those are the three men with whom she left the Carlos and Charlie's Mexican bar in the wee small hours of the Monday when she disappeared. That then takes the note to five the total of people now arrested in this case over the weekend. Of course, those two other suspects, two security guards who were arrested and who yesterday have been detained for further eight days -- Bill.

HEMMER: Karl, what's the relationship between the three men picked up last night and the two men in court yesterday?

PENHAUL: Defense attorneys say there's absolutely no relationship between the group at all, that the group of two arrested over the weekend do not know the group of three now arrested. That, though, is obviously a key relationship which the police and prosecutors will be closely looking at. We do, of course, know that the three young men arrested this morning are friends. They do know one another, and they had been at Charlie and Carlos' bar.

HEMMER: Karl Penhaul watching that story in Aruba with breaking news. Again, to repeat, three others taken into custody overnight in Aruba, three young men who were seen at that bar with Natalee Holloway more than a week ago. So as Karl watches that in Aruba, we'll watch it here. More news when we get it.

Aired June 9, 2005 - 07:0 ET    Karl Penhaul is in Aruba on the phone now with the latest



The island's chief prosecutor, Karen Janssen, has told me that the three men who are now arrested are the three men last seen in Natalee Holloway's company. Those are the three men with whom she left the Carlos and Charlie's Mexican bar in the wee small hours of the Monday when she disappeared. That then takes the note to five the total of people now arrested in this case over the weekend. Of course, those two other suspects, two security guards who were arrested and who yesterday have been detained for further eight days -- Bill.

-------------
If they are not counting the security guards, wouldn't that put Guido next in line or GVC, whichever one was arrested first.  I believe it was Guido.  (his name sounds Italian to me, however he lives in NL, or did.   j/b



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on January 28, 2008, 08:55:02 AM
Mum, saw your post about the lions link and found I could get it to work by finding the cached version...not sure if this will work, now, but I was just looking at it.

http://www.arubalions.org/Board/ALC_Board_Members_2005-2006.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 28, 2008, 09:02:52 AM
jackb...I have been going on GVC arrested 4/15/2006 and Guido May 2006..though Guido was interviewed really early in June 3 times. Do you have more info that either was detained in 2005.  TIA

Of course Freddy was detained it appears 'early', but of course it was not related to Natalee!

Jossy says early and Marianne Croes said the 9th.of June. I made a long post on Freddy back on page 51 or 52 that explains. Again, nothing sticks to Freddy!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Bearlyhere on January 28, 2008, 09:06:10 AM
Lala's....I was looking for a statement as to why Joran 'shut down' on the 22nd and found on 6/24 he refused to talk and go with police as he said Anita was coming to see him at 2pm. He would not talk until Paulus was released and also until he received word from Carlos.

Anyways...check out the second statement...and what he did talk about after he apparently met with Anita and received word from Carlos.

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/police_documents/joran624.htm





Well then, I guess talking to his Mom about underwear color is pretty mild. 

::MonkeyShocked:: ::MonkeyShocked::
This casual "anything goes" attitude towards sex is beyond my comprehension.  Thank God the 12 year old's parent was vigilant.
:pig: :pig: :pig:

Why anyone would let their daughter (or son) date him is beyond crazy.  That any woman or man would want to subject themselves to that kind of disregard as a person is more than sad.  How must you feel about yourself to be used like this?  How must you feel about yourself to act like this?   

That Big Momma knows about this and is still okay with it makes me sick.
 :smt078

Mum, I was looking for you last night.  I wanted to apologize to you for cutting out so quickly yesterday.  Right before I posted I saw the time and realized I should have been off the computer 10 minutes before.  Sorry.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 28, 2008, 09:06:46 AM
Mum, saw your post about the lions link and found I could get it to work by finding the cached version...not sure if this will work, now, but I was just looking at it.

http://www.arubalions.org/Board/ALC_Board_Members_2005-2006.htm

Thanks 2NJ...will see if I can find the cached one as the link won't work...would really like those names as a couple jumped out at me. One being Max Arends' daddy who scubajap said was really surprised when Max' name came up.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on January 28, 2008, 09:11:18 AM
The "hand" reference is about Freddy. He was left out of that picture when the media first began to use it.  I assume because he had not been mentioned in connection with the case at the time.

Is that a way of saying the hand (Freddy) is dirty?

Also:  GCV could have been called dirty hand instead of "Dirty Harry" the tv cop (good guy) perhaps as an inside joke among friends, as GVC had police powers but used drugs, and even sold them according to the blogs.       jack/b

 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 28, 2008, 09:11:34 AM
Mum, saw your post about the lions link and found I could get it to work by finding the cached version...not sure if this will work, now, but I was just looking at it.

http://www.arubalions.org/Board/ALC_Board_Members_2005-2006.htm

Thanks 2NJ...will see if I can find the cached one as the link won't work...would really like those names as a couple jumped out at me. One being Max Arends' daddy who scubajap said was really surprised when Max' name came up.


Strange I can't open any of the links not even the one for 2007 and 2008. What the heck!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 28, 2008, 09:15:51 AM
The "hand" reference is about Freddy. He was left out of that picture when the media first began to use it.  I assume because he had not been mentioned in connection with the case at the time.

Is that a way of saying the hand (Freddy) is dirty?

Also:  GCV could have been called dirty hand instead of "Dirty Harry" the tv cop (good guy) perhaps as an inside joke among friends, as GVC had police powers but used drugs, and even sold them according to the blogs.       jack/b

 


jackb...I love the way you think...LOL...thanks again for all the info....am I correct that Mirian brings up the hand...TIA...where's Lala's?


Bearlyhere...I am bearlyhere of an evening...Morning Monkey...LOL



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on January 28, 2008, 09:20:34 AM
Mum, saw your post about the lions link and found I could get it to work by finding the cached version...not sure if this will work, now, but I was just looking at it.

http://www.arubalions.org/Board/ALC_Board_Members_2005-2006.htm

Thanks 2NJ...will see if I can find the cached one as the link won't work...would really like those names as a couple jumped out at me. One being Max Arends' daddy who scubajap said was really surprised when Max' name came up.


Strange I can't open any of the links not even the one for 2007 and 2008. What the heck!!!

Initially, I found the same...404 error or something similar.  Then, I went back and used the cached link and eventually found the page that was posted the other day...with some pictures missing, as they were the other day...here's a copy/paste of the names.

Board of Directors 2005-2006

 President   Clemente "Mike" Lampe
 Imm. Past President   Maximiliano F. "Bibi" Arends
 1st Vice-President   Frank Croes
 2nd Vice-President   John J. P. de Vries
 3rd-Vice President   Ludwig Jansen
 Secretary   Omar Tromp
 Treasurer   Jaime Laclé
 Lion Tamer   Adriaan J. Arendsz
 Tail Twister   Maiky L. Croes
 Director 2 yrs.   Marlon Croes
 Director 2 yrs.   Jaime A. Mata
 Director 1 yrs.   Tendo Boekhoudt
 Director 1 yrs.   Derwin Alders
 Director Membership   Modesto I. "Dede" Ruiz
 Leo Advisor   Jaime O. Donata
 
Back to Baord of Directors 2005-2006
 




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 28, 2008, 09:30:41 AM
Mum, saw your post about the lions link and found I could get it to work by finding the cached version...not sure if this will work, now, but I was just looking at it.

http://www.arubalions.org/Board/ALC_Board_Members_2005-2006.htm

Thanks 2NJ...will see if I can find the cached one as the link won't work...would really like those names as a couple jumped out at me. One being Max Arends' daddy who scubajap said was really surprised when Max' name came up.


Strange I can't open any of the links not even the one for 2007 and 2008. What the heck!!!

Initially, I found the same...404 error or something similar.  Then, I went back and used the cached link and eventually found the page that was posted the other day...with some pictures missing, as they were the other day...here's a copy/paste of the names.

Board of Directors 2005-2006

 President   Clemente "Mike" Lampe
 Imm. Past President   Maximiliano F. "Bibi" Arends
 1st Vice-President   Frank Croes
 2nd Vice-President   John J. P. de Vries
 3rd-Vice President   Ludwig Jansen
 Secretary   Omar Tromp
 Treasurer   Jaime Laclé
 Lion Tamer   Adriaan J. Arendsz
 Tail Twister   Maiky L. Croes
 Director 2 yrs.   Marlon Croes
 Director 2 yrs.   Jaime A. Mata
 Director 1 yrs.   Tendo Boekhoudt
 Director 1 yrs.   Derwin Alders
 Director Membership   Modesto I. "Dede" Ruiz
 Leo Advisor   Jaime O. Donata
 
Back to Baord of Directors 2005-2006
 





Thanks again...that was what I wanted, but it is strange that none of the links open!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Bearlyhere on January 28, 2008, 09:38:33 AM
Mum, saw your post about the lions link and found I could get it to work by finding the cached version...not sure if this will work, now, but I was just looking at it.

http://www.arubalions.org/Board/ALC_Board_Members_2005-2006.htm

Thanks 2NJ...will see if I can find the cached one as the link won't work...would really like those names as a couple jumped out at me. One being Max Arends' daddy who scubajap said was really surprised when Max' name came up.


Strange I can't open any of the links not even the one for 2007 and 2008. What the heck!!!

Strange things are going on around here this morning.

I just had an "out of cage experience" myself.  Suddenly the cage was shaking, the room went dark and I was thrown into cyberspace.  Glad to be back safely in the cage.

 ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Bearlyhere on January 28, 2008, 09:43:50 AM
Other things from Joran's statememt that make me go hmmm...

That Joran could hurt his Dad by what he said. 

Joran wanted to wait until his father made a statement before he made one.

That it appears that Joran feels he has the power to force his father's release...


 ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyNoNo::  ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyNoNo::

Mum, what stood out to you?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 28, 2008, 10:04:05 AM
Other things from Joran's statememt that make me go hmmm...

That Joran could hurt his Dad by what he said. 

Joran wanted to wait until his father made a statement before he made one.

That it appears that Joran feels he has the power to force his father's release...


 ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyNoNo::  ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyNoNo::

Mum, what stood out to you?


Much of the same...insisting he wouldn't leave because Anita was coming....LOL...who the heck was in charge! Remember he was still 17 at this time...my kid would have been shaking in her boots at that age...even now if it was law enforcement.

I would love to see some more statements....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 28, 2008, 10:04:27 AM
Lala's....did you just put all those 'shock' posts together? Funny how things jump out at you when they are taken 'out of context' LOL

Now....back to rereading....and trying to understand what COLUMBO is trying to tell me...'in context'....



Not me...I just knew where to find them.  Don't have them all and there are some missing that I have found later in other places. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 28, 2008, 10:21:14 AM
Lala's....did you just put all those 'shock' posts together? Funny how things jump out at you when they are taken 'out of context' LOL

Now....back to rereading....and trying to understand what COLUMBO is trying to tell me...'in context'....



Not me...I just knew where to find them.  Don't have them all and there are some missing that I have found later in other places. 

Had you seen those Grey Whisper posts before?

Did you get your mail?

I wonder if Paulus was in charge of contracts in 1999/2000 when all those millions went for airport improvements for the FOP per the 10 year agreement.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Bearlyhere on January 28, 2008, 10:28:28 AM
Other things from Joran's statememt that make me go hmmm...

That Joran could hurt his Dad by what he said. 

Joran wanted to wait until his father made a statement before he made one.

That it appears that Joran feels he has the power to force his father's release...


 ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyNoNo::  ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyNoNo::

Mum, what stood out to you?


Much of the same...insisting he wouldn't leave because Anita was coming....LOL...who the heck was in charge! Remember he was still 17 at this time...my kid would have been shaking in her boots at that age...even now if it was law enforcement.

I would love to see some more statements....

Yes, it seems like the tail is wagging the dog in Aruba.

I think any typical teenager would be doing the same as your daughter.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 28, 2008, 10:33:02 AM
Lala's....did you just put all those 'shock' posts together? Funny how things jump out at you when they are taken 'out of context' LOL

Now....back to rereading....and trying to understand what COLUMBO is trying to tell me...'in context'....



Not me...I just knew where to find them.  Don't have them all and there are some missing that I have found later in other places. 

Had you seen those Grey Whisper posts before?

Did you get your mail?

I wonder if Paulus was in charge of contracts in 1999/2000 when all those millions went for airport improvements for the FOP per the 10 year agreement.

Yes, did you check your email?  I sent you something.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 28, 2008, 10:44:06 AM
Thanks....I was trying to email Klaas and lost what I was going to send and had to redo, but I did get it....I don't think I'll ever catch up.

Been trying to find stuff on the airport and I think 2000 is when Paulus was in charge of contracts....thinking along the lines of what power he had. Just a thought.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 28, 2008, 11:03:39 AM
You can't catch up. there is always something new to read. LOL  I may find something else you are interested in...keep checking your mail, just in case. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on January 28, 2008, 11:30:27 AM
This photo of David Wever was emailed to me:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/DavidWever.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 28, 2008, 11:42:42 AM
Thanks Klaas....all of these names seem to be connected, strange that no one knows each other though...

Lala's....I know I won't catch up...not today anyway...LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 28, 2008, 11:46:05 AM
This photo of David Wever was emailed to me:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/DavidWever.jpg)

Thanks for posting.  How does he fit in this again?  I am still on the confused list.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on January 28, 2008, 12:03:55 PM
Lala's - I know Joran mentioned David in his book.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 28, 2008, 12:08:37 PM
This photo of David Wever was emailed to me:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/DavidWever.jpg)

Thanks for posting.  How does he fit in this again?  I am still on the confused list.


LOL....A little confused myself today... I was in the other thread and thought I was here...

He came about because of 'only David left the den alive'. And then we began finding David/Lorenzo Wevers. This is the one jackb commented on as leaving and going to the Netherland. The other one that died was 69 and had Lorenzo and a nickname of 'David' in his name I believe. Remember I posted a couple of days ago about two Lorenzos...well I think that's where it started...but I'm not sure as I'm confused...LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 28, 2008, 12:16:24 PM
Lala's - I know Joran mentioned David in his book.

Klaas...do you think this is this David? 

I have been following Joran's mentions of David and found another one that is really interesting with an interesting Mother....US...different surname...but believe the surname to be probably fake.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 28, 2008, 12:35:43 PM
I wonder if I can get credit for the new dictionary entry?

con·fu·sion      /kənˈfyuʒən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kuhn-fyoo-zhuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1.   the act of confusing.
2.   the state of being confused.
3.   disorder; upheaval; tumult; chaos: The army retreated in confusion.
4.   lack of clearness or distinctness: a confusion in his mind between right and wrong.
5.   perplexity; bewilderment: The more difficult questions left us in complete confusion.
6.   embarrassment or abashment: He blushed in confusion.
7.   Psychiatry. a disturbed mental state; disorientation.
8.   Archaic. defeat, overthrow, or ruin.
9.   Reading the Shango thread at Scared Monkeys.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Bearlyhere on January 28, 2008, 12:39:43 PM
I wonder if I can get credit for the new dictionary entry?

con·fu·sion      /kənˈfyuʒən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kuhn-fyoo-zhuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1.   the act of confusing.
2.   the state of being confused.
3.   disorder; upheaval; tumult; chaos: The army retreated in confusion.
4.   lack of clearness or distinctness: a confusion in his mind between right and wrong.
5.   perplexity; bewilderment: The more difficult questions left us in complete confusion.
6.   embarrassment or abashment: He blushed in confusion.
7.   Psychiatry. a disturbed mental state; disorientation.
8.   Archaic. defeat, overthrow, or ruin.
9.   Reading the Shango thread at Scared Monkeys.

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 28, 2008, 12:42:42 PM
LOL.....now I think I need to take my question for Klaas over to the other thread..

Bringing these over from the main threadDRAX is the destroyer
Scores could be music or the Drax scores could mean Killed or destroyed.
Babalu is a jester, a host or a dj, or master of ceremony type.
The Original Shango said:  Babalu left his post at (and game time)  I thought to be 12:01 or so.  He may have left his station (ship--Tattoo??.)  Disk Jock Croes?  Got fired.  Was not on the ship overnight.  He never signed out and was fired.

Shivas:  like body guards and used as gofers.

Consort:  Husband to the queen or intimate to a person.

Dirty Hand ( I forgot at this time what that meaning is)

The morphing is done thruogh changing of looks and names as the pictures change subtly, as the words and sayings in Shango, enough to change the meaning.

The original Shango has been changed so subtly, but over time has become whatever anyone seems to want it to be to prove their point or throw off those who see some meaning to the answers. 

Mary:  The only name used.  Why?  Why not use "the girl"  Is mary a person, or a girlfriend of one of those at the gathering, perhaps a married woman who befriended the "lamb."    The lamb could have been who was raped and became a goat.  The original Shango did not specify who was the lamb, or why one name was used in all the sayings of his.  I just thought this as being strange.  XTC, DNA is not necessarily drugs, as I said it could be a tag, a licence number on a vessel of some sort.

Threadsurfer is maritime language meaning small boats going over waves or threading the waves to get through a maze of coral (maze is another maritime word.)

Shango used old language as is in the Bible in parts and maritime expressions.

There is a House of David there.  A great house with smaller houses surrounding them who serve the great house.  The house of david is a resort for those of alternate sexual preference.  There is an underground chain of them.  They cater to those who want privacy and some who are well known from different countries who are keeping secretes due to their positions.  Whatever goes on there may be more than just the deflowering of young maidens.  They are a cultish people who bind together in these scenarios.

Isn't this just the strangest thing?     jack blue


From Helenback
Isn't this just the strangest thing?     jack blue

Maybe the alternative definition of "elder" I posted in S&S is not so far off after all.   

Strangest thing indeed, jack.


From jackb
Also while I am thinking about it:  The hammer and block is abstract justice, ie, the gavel and block it is hit upon.  The force behind the gavel (enforcement) would most likely be the Law Enforcement.  The actual banging of the gavel the judicial and the block the prison where is the final stopping of the criminal, or incarceration.  Yellowhammer, the word I have not read in Shango, could mean the blong headed enforcer of the law.  I just was thinking of the indians calling Custer "yellow hair."  The pointing to by the prosecuting with the evidence does not mean justice will be given.        Jack blue


From Bearlyhere
I thought "Mary" was used because it was a common name.  Mary who was a virgin as opposed to "Mary" who isn't (like Mary Magdeline).  I thought the maze was an introduction to sex...not a voluntary one, one which was difficult to escape.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 28, 2008, 02:48:54 PM
Mary
Mary who was not a virgin (Magdelene)

suggests either a transaction, or a "judgement"

there is more than one house of music

even if you play cards in the house of Babylon as an Arawak, you still have DirtyHand

the only other reference to cards is:

the arawaks hold the singing card from babylon
there is also a trio
   # # # # # # # # #
the maze of babylon is difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent

the lamb ran bleating.......





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on January 28, 2008, 05:09:47 PM
Mary
Mary who was not a virgin (Magdelene)

suggests either a transaction, or a "judgement"

there is more than one house of music

even if you play cards in the house of Babylon as an Arawak, you still have DirtyHand

the only other reference to cards is:

the arawaks hold the singing card from babylon
there is also a trio
   # # # # # # # # #
the maze of babylon is difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent

the lamb ran bleating.......






here are more references to cards.......sorry if this wasn't what you meant




Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians do not like the Babylonian intrusion.
The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:37 pm
Why don’t the Arawaks to play the BabylonianCard ?
The posse is far from the fort and the loot is gone
The indians can’t count on the cowboys
The arawaks need to audition the singing card

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:49 pm
Elder needs to sing to preserve his lineage
To agree to remain silent is to agree not to hum any tune
The Arawaks are desperate, they fear for the tribe, they do not want war with the cowboys
But the loot remains hidden
And the Arawaks keep their singing card hidden as well
The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:57 pm
The Arawaks may not need to play the singing card
The cowboys won’t hear the music and the teepees will be safe
Wampum is needed as the doors closed on Eden

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:26 pm
The maze of Babylon is very difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent
The Arawaks cannot reveal their singing card
many teepees would be destroyed and the cowboys would get upset
the singing card is bad luck for wampum for many moons
So there must be some type of sacrifice
The gods are hungry, the cowboys are hungry
Great disruption in the halls of babylonian palace

there are many more references to cards if you want them..... ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 28, 2008, 05:36:44 PM
many card game references......but what game is being played? not poker.......

".............even if you play cards as an Arawak"

"......some elders of the game, not just of babylon (Arawak game, too), walk in older circles....."


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 28, 2008, 05:37:58 PM
maze of babylon is difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on January 28, 2008, 06:00:51 PM
maze of babylon is difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent

the halls of justice=KIAjustice system  are difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent=2 security guards

singing cards = security guards

I have always felt that the guards were arrested in an attempt to pin the crime on them, this is well known.  I feel at some point during their incarceration they cut a deal........maybe they were threatened and decided to become informants hence the conversations with the perps.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 28, 2008, 06:05:13 PM
PVDS had one or two cards up his sleeve......they were played, and lost......one's song was noton the bill (the music man).....the other was DirtyHand, but Arawaks could not let him sing

DirtyHand knows who provided escort (babylonians) after the shivas left......2 other guards?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 28, 2008, 06:07:54 PM
or something else?

".......sacrifice will be made to spare the polis......."

what did babalu say?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 28, 2008, 06:11:35 PM
& where was that black team anyways?????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on January 28, 2008, 06:47:09 PM
simian wondered that too.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 28, 2008, 07:08:47 PM
loesge may be right.......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Helen Back on January 28, 2008, 07:14:41 PM
Urban dictionary:

Card - membership in a group/gang

Card - Rasta meaning to play joke or trick

Cards -  cigarettes or joints are called cards because cigarettes and joints fit perfectly into playing card packs.

 :smt102


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on January 28, 2008, 07:58:08 PM
Urban dictionary :
1.card
an amusingly eccentric person

2. card     
A word that old people use to say you have a unique personality.

3. card     
1. The distinct personality of an individual regarded as a persisting entity; individuality. (If your card is getting “pulled”, you are going to get fucked up)

2. The set of behavioral or personal characteristics by which an individual is recognizable as a member of a group.

3. To check the identification of, especially in order to verify legal age.

4.card     
A circuit board used to add functionality to a computer; for example, a graphics card or a wireless networking card.

5.card     
membership in a group/gang.

6.card     
Rasta meaning to play a joke or trick.

 ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on January 28, 2008, 08:54:02 PM
loesge may be right.......

I can't decipher code, but I do have this:

1.   loesge Says:
April 22nd, 2006 at 5:41 am
Gunslinger Says:
April 21st, 2006 at 7:06 pm
they filmed her de-flowering.
who was the actor?
——————————————-
ODUBER

2.   loesge Says:
April 22nd, 2006 at 5:51 am
Gunslinger Says:
April 21st, 2006 at 7:34 pm
The video was filmed live and
on location at the neighborhood
Holiday Inn.
““““““““““““““““
no,
it was the Wyndham


3.   loesge Says:
April 22nd, 2006 at 6:00 am
connect the dots to Bob Smith, manager of the Wyndham who also is head of the “black-clad” visability team. It was those black-clad “guards” who intercepted Natalee from Joran, NOT the two guards who were arrested. Joran delivered Natalee to a “House his father was known to be at”= Casablanca= “white house”.
The visability guards handed her over to Paulus and he, ultimately to Oduber.
The Lions prefer nice accomodations for their deflowerings. Presidential suite, anyone?
It’s an ongoing racket.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 28, 2008, 09:33:57 PM
would that suite be the "Great House" with a window overlooking Babylon?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on January 28, 2008, 09:37:13 PM
In case Shango or Simian are reading here, this is what it's all about:

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Natalee2.swf


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on January 28, 2008, 10:15:57 PM
Beautiful tribute for an outstanding young lady, Klaas.  Thank you!



If you have information, PLEASE....do the right thing and help bring Natalee home.











Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Helen Back on January 28, 2008, 10:43:16 PM
loesge may be right.......

I can't decipher code, but I do have this:

1.   loesge Says:
April 22nd, 2006 at 5:41 am
Gunslinger Says:
April 21st, 2006 at 7:06 pm
they filmed her de-flowering.
who was the actor?
——————————————-
ODUBER

2.   loesge Says:
April 22nd, 2006 at 5:51 am
Gunslinger Says:
April 21st, 2006 at 7:34 pm
The video was filmed live and
on location at the neighborhood
Holiday Inn.
““““““““““““““““
no,
it was the Wyndham


3.   loesge Says:
April 22nd, 2006 at 6:00 am
connect the dots to Bob Smith, manager of the Wyndham who also is head of the “black-clad” visability team. It was those black-clad “guards” who intercepted Natalee from Joran, NOT the two guards who were arrested. Joran delivered Natalee to a “House his father was known to be at”= Casablanca= “white house”.
The visability guards handed her over to Paulus and he, ultimately to Oduber.
The Lions prefer nice accomodations for their deflowerings. Presidential suite, anyone?
It’s an ongoing racket.


Buckeye and Colombo, I've never seen this.  However, this does back up some of my feelings about the story.  What do you know about these posts?





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on January 28, 2008, 10:48:57 PM
loesge may be right.......

I can't decipher code, but I do have this:

1.   loesge Says:
April 22nd, 2006 at 5:41 am
Gunslinger Says:
April 21st, 2006 at 7:06 pm
they filmed her de-flowering.
who was the actor?
——————————————-
ODUBER

2.   loesge Says:
April 22nd, 2006 at 5:51 am
Gunslinger Says:
April 21st, 2006 at 7:34 pm
The video was filmed live and
on location at the neighborhood
Holiday Inn.
““““““““““““““““
no,
it was the Wyndham


3.   loesge Says:
April 22nd, 2006 at 6:00 am
connect the dots to Bob Smith, manager of the Wyndham who also is head of the “black-clad” visability team. It was those black-clad “guards” who intercepted Natalee from Joran, NOT the two guards who were arrested. Joran delivered Natalee to a “House his father was known to be at”= Casablanca= “white house”.
The visability guards handed her over to Paulus and he, ultimately to Oduber.
The Lions prefer nice accomodations for their deflowerings. Presidential suite, anyone?
It’s an ongoing racket.


Buckeye and Colombo, I've never seen this.  However, this does back up some of my feelings about the story.  What do you know about these posts?





Posted on FP of SM, while forum was down.  Klaas couldn't verify posting area (? Aruba).  Discussed maybe on page 2 or so of this thread...if I remember correctly...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Helen Back on January 28, 2008, 10:57:45 PM
loesge may be right.......

I can't decipher code, but I do have this:

1.   loesge Says:
April 22nd, 2006 at 5:41 am
Gunslinger Says:
April 21st, 2006 at 7:06 pm
they filmed her de-flowering.
who was the actor?
——————————————-
ODUBER

2.   loesge Says:
April 22nd, 2006 at 5:51 am
Gunslinger Says:
April 21st, 2006 at 7:34 pm
The video was filmed live and
on location at the neighborhood
Holiday Inn.
““““““““““““““““
no,
it was the Wyndham


3.   loesge Says:
April 22nd, 2006 at 6:00 am
connect the dots to Bob Smith, manager of the Wyndham who also is head of the “black-clad” visability team. It was those black-clad “guards” who intercepted Natalee from Joran, NOT the two guards who were arrested. Joran delivered Natalee to a “House his father was known to be at”= Casablanca= “white house”.
The visability guards handed her over to Paulus and he, ultimately to Oduber.
The Lions prefer nice accomodations for their deflowerings. Presidential suite, anyone?
It’s an ongoing racket.


Buckeye and Colombo, I've never seen this.  However, this does back up some of my feelings about the story.  What do you know about these posts?





Posted on FP of SM, while forum was down.  Klaas couldn't verify posting area (? Aruba).  Discussed maybe on page 2 or so of this thread...if I remember correctly...

I'm glad you posted, can't believe I missed it.  Thanks, Helen



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sirensong on January 28, 2008, 11:21:21 PM
Has CapsLockWizard been here today?

I find the posts by grey whisperer very interesting.  I sure wish he would have just told what he knew.  Makes you wonder if these posters are still alive and well.

Lazlo from RU says Jacobs gave his number to anyone who believes Albert G?   What is  that  all about.  Why would Jacobs even care?   Is  he protecting Julia, like the newspapers and Mos are?  Crazy place, that  Aruba. 

The statement made by Joran when the cops came to take him to the police station is too much.  He doesn't  want to say anything because his dad is scared he will make a mistake and get Paulus in deeper trouble.   So Joran says his dad's memory is bad, can't remember what  he wore yesterday.  Now if that  isn't the  most transparent statement he  has ever made.

  I noticed in his story about his sexual encounter with Karen sounds so much like the things he said in describing his encounter with Natalee.  (in his book).  It sounds like maybe Karen told the police she wasn't a willing participant, and the blood was proof she was a virgin.  These young girls just can't wait to give Joran a  blow job, and he just never   has a  condom unless  he is at his apartment.   Of course, they were both drinking, but  she knew what she was doing.   It sounds like maybe the  guys were there waiting for him to  bring a   drugged Karen so they could partake in the action.  And she spent the night with Anita's okay?   What  an evil set up Joran and his pimp friends had for these poor girls.  I hope he gets  busted and put away for life.   I hate  them all,  it  is  so   outrageous how  long this has  gone   on.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on January 28, 2008, 11:36:39 PM
Sirensong..I don't believe that Caps has been here today....He said last night that His reports on the riddles were almost done....I just hope He decides to share the reports with Us...  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 28, 2008, 11:57:56 PM

Klaasend:

Got it and letf something

who was living in the apartment that is Pauls related.?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on January 29, 2008, 12:00:09 AM

Klaasend:

Got it and letf something

who was living in the apartment that is Pauls related.?

Not sure what you are asking Caps

Joran was living in the apartment that was separate from the rest of the Sloot home but on the same property. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sirensong on January 29, 2008, 12:12:45 AM
Sirensong..I don't believe that Caps has been here today....He said last night that His reports on the riddles were almost done....I just hope He decides to share the reports with Us...  ::MonkeyWink::

Thanks, hotping!  Speaking of the Wizard!   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Hope you aren't working too hard, CapsLockWizard!  Can't wait what you came up with.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 29, 2008, 12:14:09 AM

Ckeck Mbox


who is the brother of joran, the one that born in aruba

just Pauls and anita little fam tree


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on January 29, 2008, 12:17:32 AM

Ckeck Mbox


who is the brother of joran, the one that born in aruba

just Pauls and anita little fam tree

Paulus
Anita
Joran - born in the NL
Valentijn - born in Aruba (I think)
Sabastian - born in Aruba

Valentijn is about 2 years younger than Joran and Sebastian is about 2 or 3 years younger than Valentijn.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on January 29, 2008, 12:18:47 AM
Sirensong..I don't believe that Caps has been here today....He said last night that His reports on the riddles were almost done....I just hope He decides to share the reports with Us...  ::MonkeyWink::

Thanks, hotping!  Speaking of the Wizard!   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Hope you aren't working too hard, CapsLockWizard!  Can't wait what you came up with.
You're Welcome SS!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 29, 2008, 12:19:45 AM
had to move to other location...

there will be time for a total war...but if keep singin to much in shango.... will wakeup soldiers.....




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on January 29, 2008, 12:21:02 AM

Ckeck Mbox


who is the brother of joran, the one that born in aruba

just Pauls and anita little fam tree

Paulus
Anita
Joran - born in the NL
Valentijn - born in Aruba (I think)
Sabastian - born in Aruba

Valentijn is about 2 years younger than Joran and Sebastian is about 2 or 3 years younger than Valentijn.

This is Valentijn.  The photo was taken at Carlos n Charlies on April 7. 2007.  I believe that Joran Valentijn just graduated high school this year.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ValCnC040707-1-2.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 29, 2008, 12:22:08 AM
we need a new stratigic way to work on this...

The element of surprise is monkeys best wapen...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on January 29, 2008, 12:42:54 AM
Thank You Caps for All that You are Doing for Natalee and Her Family! Share what You Can of the Riddles! Sincerely PC


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on January 29, 2008, 02:01:53 AM

Ckeck Mbox


who is the brother of joran, the one that born in aruba

just Pauls and anita little fam tree

Paulus
Anita
Joran - born in the NL
Valentijn - born in Aruba (I think)
Sabastian - born in Aruba

Valentijn is about 2 years younger than Joran and Sebastian is about 2 or 3 years younger than Valentijn.

This is Valentijn.  The photo was taken at Carlos n Charlies on April 7. 2007.  I believe that Joran Valentijn just graduated high school this year.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ValCnC040707-1-2.jpg)

Klaas and Caps, I found this in the archives, it says 2 of the 3 were born in NL

2  Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #706 12/20 - on: December 21, 2007, 07:41:34 PM 

snip
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/paul_van_der_sl_1.html

Paul Van der Sloot Background

Tilburg
Van der Sloot (53) got his legal education at the University of Tilburg in the seventies. He co-founded the Legal Faculty Association Tilburg and also the faculty newspaper ‘Nondejure'. After he finished his studies he did not went to work for the government, but assisted citizens that had conflicts with the government.  It was in that period in Arnhem, where he met a woman Anita (teacher of Artistic Formation) and it was also there were Joran and Valentijn, two of his three suns, were born.
New job
In 1991 Paul van der Sloot thought it was the time for a new job and he found one in Aruba where he was appointed for five year as a lawyer for the Aruban government.

Monday, June 27, 2005 at 11:23 AM
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on January 29, 2008, 02:13:22 AM
Just curious...I wonder what Anita's full name is.....Anyone!   


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Bearlyhere on January 29, 2008, 02:15:32 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:49 pm
Elder needs to sing to preserve his lineage
To agree to remain silent is to agree not to hum any tune
The Arawaks are desperate, they fear for the tribe, they do not want war with the cowboys
But the loot remains hidden
And the Arawaks keep their singing card hidden as well
The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

Could the singing card be a "plant" of some sort?  Someone who pretends to be on your side but is not and reports back?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on January 29, 2008, 02:19:12 AM
Just curious...I wonder what Anita's full name is.....Anyone!   

I don't think I have her "full" name, but I think I have her maiden name saved somewhere, I'm looking...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on January 29, 2008, 02:21:45 AM
I wonder if the singing cards are Val and Sabastian? Maybe they saw something that night and the sloots are scared they will sing.....just a thought... ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on January 29, 2008, 02:22:58 AM
Just curious...I wonder what Anita's full name is.....Anyone!   

I don't think I have her "full" name, but I think I have her maiden name saved somewhere, I'm looking...


Anita Hugen van der Sloot


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Bearlyhere on January 29, 2008, 02:23:05 AM
Mary
Mary who was not a virgin (Magdelene)

suggests either a transaction, or a "judgement"


there is more than one house of music

even if you play cards in the house of Babylon as an Arawak, you still have DirtyHand

the only other reference to cards is:

the arawaks hold the singing card from babylon
there is also a trio
   # # # # # # # # #
the maze of babylon is difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent

the lamb ran bleating.......





At her judgement no one could "throw stones" because they were all guilty of something.

The judges are impotent because they all have something to hide?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on January 29, 2008, 02:23:39 AM
Thanks TM! Seems like I saw it somewhere but could have been anywhere that I read it...... ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on January 29, 2008, 02:25:18 AM
Just curious...I wonder what Anita's full name is.....Anyone!   

I don't think I have her "full" name, but I think I have her maiden name saved somewhere, I'm looking...


Anita Hugen van der Sloot
Thanks TM I was wondering if Her name included Mary or some version.... ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on January 29, 2008, 02:28:45 AM
Just curious...I wonder what Anita's full name is.....Anyone!   

I don't think I have her "full" name, but I think I have her maiden name saved somewhere, I'm looking...


Anita Hugen van der Sloot
Thanks TM I was wondering if Her name included Mary or some version.... ::MonkeyConfused::

You're welcome.  That's all I have, wish I knew more too!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Bearlyhere on January 29, 2008, 02:29:39 AM
Mary
Mary who was not a virgin (Magdelene)

suggests either a transaction, or a "judgement"

there is more than one house of music

even if you play cards in the house of Babylon as an Arawak, you still have DirtyHand

the only other reference to cards is:

the arawaks hold the singing card from babylon
there is also a trio
   # # # # # # # # #
the maze of babylon is difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent

the lamb ran bleating.......





Even if you play in another casino there is still someone "playing cards with dirty money" to be laundered?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on January 29, 2008, 02:30:45 AM
Just curious...I wonder what Anita's full name is.....Anyone!   

I don't think I have her "full" name, but I think I have her maiden name saved somewhere, I'm looking...


Anita Hugen van der Sloot
Thanks TM I was wondering if Her name included Mary or some version.... ::MonkeyConfused::

You're welcome.  That's all I have, wish I knew more too!
ME Too! This S/S stuff will make You crazy...LOL! ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on January 29, 2008, 02:32:59 AM
Caps, I also found this information

Chapter 2 of Joran's book: An american school on Aruba

page 1

1. says his mom started teaching there in 1991, gives arty lesses and art history

2. ISA is American school with about 200 students, private school, expensive (8,000 $ a year per student but as child of a teacher they got on cheaply)

3. US grading system (A, B, C, essays and SATS)

4. because he followed his education in English his dutch is not that good

5. speaks of his youngest brothers that was born in 1995 and a true Aruban. He is a sweetheart according to Joran

page 2:

1. calls his little brother cute small teddybear. Very sensitive, hates fights. When a small family arguments looms he shouts "stop" to prevent the argument or starts crying. Very caring towards his family (the smallest van der Sloot that is). Very social, a lot of friends, less athletic than his brothers.

2. Brother Valentijn is very different to Joran. Is very much into school and basketball. Hangs out with younger kids. Joran says he and his brother have little in common, hopes that will change when adulthood sets in. He loves him but they often argued over things like the computer, time spent behind the computer and other silly things.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Bearlyhere on January 29, 2008, 02:33:15 AM
Just curious...I wonder what Anita's full name is.....Anyone!   

I don't think I have her "full" name, but I think I have her maiden name saved somewhere, I'm looking...


Anita Hugen van der Sloot
Thanks TM I was wondering if Her name included Mary or some version.... ::MonkeyConfused::

HP  Anita is a form of Anna.  Anne is Mary's mother.
Does that help?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on January 29, 2008, 02:37:58 AM
Just curious...I wonder what Anita's full name is.....Anyone!   

I don't think I have her "full" name, but I think I have her maiden name saved somewhere, I'm looking...


Anita Hugen van der Sloot
Thanks TM I was wondering if Her name included Mary or some version.... ::MonkeyConfused::

HP  Anita is a form of Anna.  Anne is Mary's mother.
Does that help?
BH To be honest I don't know if it does or not I just keep trying to think of reasons that Mary was used in the riddles...... ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on January 29, 2008, 02:38:43 AM

yes, indeed.....this is me ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Bearlyhere on January 29, 2008, 02:38:55 AM
many card game references......but what game is being played? not poker.......

".............even if you play cards as an Arawak"

"......some elders of the game, not just of babylon (Arawak game, too), walk in older circles....."

Not all expert players of the game (elders--those wise to the game) are young, some have been doing this a long time or are old or hang out with older people.  (Joran hangs out with his Dad).


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Bearlyhere on January 29, 2008, 02:42:43 AM
Just curious...I wonder what Anita's full name is.....Anyone!   

I don't think I have her "full" name, but I think I have her maiden name saved somewhere, I'm looking...


Anita Hugen van der Sloot
Thanks TM I was wondering if Her name included Mary or some version.... ::MonkeyConfused::

HP  Anita is a form of Anna.  Anne is Mary's mother.
Does that help?
BH To be honest I don't know if it does or not I just keep trying to think of reasons that Mary was used in the riddles...... ::MonkeyConfused::

I'm just trying not to add to the confusion.  What I mean is-am I making things more confusing for those who have been doing the Shango Tango and The Simian Shimmyin' for much loger than me?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on January 29, 2008, 02:43:17 AM
many card game references......but what game is being played? not poker.......

".............even if you play cards as an Arawak"

"......some elders of the game, not just of babylon (Arawak game, too), walk in older circles....."

Not all expert players of the game (elders--those wise to the game) are young, some have been doing this a long time or are old or hang out with older people.  (Joran hangs out with his Dad).
I would say that he hangs out with his Dad and they Scope out unexpecting tourist girls....I think when Joran made His comment about We have done this 20 times before.... that Dad was right in there with Him....just like that night in the casino video. JMO ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on January 29, 2008, 02:45:28 AM
Just curious...I wonder what Anita's full name is.....Anyone!   

I don't think I have her "full" name, but I think I have her maiden name saved somewhere, I'm looking...


Anita Hugen van der Sloot
Thanks TM I was wondering if Her name included Mary or some version.... ::MonkeyConfused::

HP  Anita is a form of Anna.  Anne is Mary's mother.
Does that help?
BH To be honest I don't know if it does or not I just keep trying to think of reasons that Mary was used in the riddles...... ::MonkeyConfused::

I'm just trying not to add to the confusion.  What I mean is-am I making things more confusing for those who have been doing the Shango Tango and The Simian Shimmyin' for much loger than me?
I know what You mean sometimes I feel like an intruder...... ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Bearlyhere on January 29, 2008, 02:45:29 AM
I'm just trying not to add to the confusion.  What I mean is-am I making things more confusing for those who have been doing the Shango Tango and The Simian Shimmyin' for much loger than me?

For much longer than me.

(Must be getting a cold)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Bearlyhere on January 29, 2008, 02:46:45 AM
Just curious...I wonder what Anita's full name is.....Anyone!   

I don't think I have her "full" name, but I think I have her maiden name saved somewhere, I'm looking...


Anita Hugen van der Sloot
Thanks TM I was wondering if Her name included Mary or some version.... ::MonkeyConfused::

HP  Anita is a form of Anna.  Anne is Mary's mother.
Does that help?
BH To be honest I don't know if it does or not I just keep trying to think of reasons that Mary was used in the riddles...... ::MonkeyConfused::

I'm just trying not to add to the confusion.  What I mean is-am I making things more confusing for those who have been doing the Shango Tango and The Simian Shimmyin' for much loger than me?
I know what You mean sometimes I feel like an intruder...... ::MonkeyConfused::

Thanks HP, that is exactly what I mean.   ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on January 29, 2008, 02:48:10 AM
I really respect all the Monkeys that have working this thread for so long...they are real troupers....Sincerely


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on January 29, 2008, 02:54:03 AM
Looks like Caps Info is so believable that He can't post it Here but thats OK if it will help find Natalee and get some proof of what happened.....  MO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on January 29, 2008, 02:55:49 AM

I agree!  I don't see how some of them have done it as long as they have.  I tried working on it for several months at one time but had to step away, the whole thing was really wearing on me.  I have the utmost respect for those that just keep on picking away at it and I'll try to help when I think I have something that might help.  I just worry that I'm more of a nuisance since I haven't been involved with all of the discussions and have missed a lot of what has already been said. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on January 29, 2008, 02:56:40 AM
Just curious...I wonder what Anita's full name is.....Anyone!   

I don't think I have her "full" name, but I think I have her maiden name saved somewhere, I'm looking...


Anita Hugen van der Sloot
Thanks TM I was wondering if Her name included Mary or some version.... ::MonkeyConfused::

HP  Anita is a form of Anna.  Anne is Mary's mother.
Does that help?
BH To be honest I don't know if it does or not I just keep trying to think of reasons that Mary was used in the riddles...... ::MonkeyConfused::

I'm just trying not to add to the confusion.  What I mean is-am I making things more confusing for those who have been doing the Shango Tango and The Simian Shimmyin' for much loger than me?
I know what You mean sometimes I feel like an intruder...... ::MonkeyConfused::

Thanks HP, that is exactly what I mean.   ::MonkeyConfused::
You're Welcome BH! I truly wish I could be more helpful in this S/S mess. Good Night ALL....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Bearlyhere on January 29, 2008, 02:57:38 AM
Just curious...I wonder what Anita's full name is.....Anyone!   

I don't think I have her "full" name, but I think I have her maiden name saved somewhere, I'm looking...


Anita Hugen van der Sloot
Thanks TM I was wondering if Her name included Mary or some version.... ::MonkeyConfused::

HP  Anita is a form of Anna.  Anne is Mary's mother.
Does that help?
BH To be honest I don't know if it does or not I just keep trying to think of reasons that Mary was used in the riddles...... ::MonkeyConfused::

I'm just trying not to add to the confusion.  What I mean is-am I making things more confusing for those who have been doing the Shango Tango and The Simian Shimmyin' for much loger than me?
I know what You mean sometimes I feel like an intruder...... ::MonkeyConfused::

Thanks HP, that is exactly what I mean.   ::MonkeyConfused::

I just looked down the quote stacks, we must all be related because we all look alike.

 ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on January 29, 2008, 03:00:43 AM
OMG WE Do Look Alike!! I Always wanted a couple of sisters....LOL Good Night !


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on January 29, 2008, 03:01:29 AM
Looks like Caps Info is so believable that He can't post it Here but thats OK if it will help find Natalee and get some proof of what happened.....  MO

I'm going to trust him and Klaas on that.  I really want to know the results but maybe we can find out another way without him having to post it.  I hope anyway.  Truthfully, if it will help find resolution...I don't need to know anything!

I'm calling it a night, I'm going to HATE myself tomorrow at work!

Goodnight HP and anyone else that's still here!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on January 29, 2008, 03:06:57 AM
goodnight bearlyhere!   ::MonkeyConfused:: lol


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Bearlyhere on January 29, 2008, 03:07:38 AM
many card game references......but what game is being played? not poker.......

".............even if you play cards as an Arawak"

"......some elders of the game, not just of babylon (Arawak game, too), walk in older circles....."

Not all expert players of the game (elders--those wise to the game) are young, some have been doing this a long time or are old or hang out with older people.  (Joran hangs out with his Dad).
I would say that he hangs out with his Dad and they Scope out unexpecting tourist girls....I think when Joran made His comment about We have done this 20 times before.... that Dad was right in there with Him....just like that night in the casino video. JMO ::MonkeyEek::

I think 20 times was a low ball figure, that was only how high he could count at that moment. 

It looks like any orifice at any time in any position--outy or inny, or any location, in front of anyone.  I am not talking about someone who is truly one way, the other, or both.  It's dehumanizing, it's not about sexual preference, it's about whatever is there when I feel like it.  Not whoever but whatever.

Lamb--quite, docile or Goat--will "eat" anything.

I can't imagine that prostitutes make any money there.  It looks like most anyone will "roll over" or be drugged to "roll over" at any time.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Bearlyhere on January 29, 2008, 03:09:47 AM
goodnight bearlyhere!   ::MonkeyConfused:: lol

Nite.  Take a nice nap when you get home (or fake yourself out and tell yourself all day you are going to).

 ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 29, 2008, 06:09:09 AM
LOL....you guys are confused.....I can't even decipher COLUMBO'S riddles....

For Lala's 5th. suspect.....

P179-181

Wednesday June 22, 2005

While being transferred from police station to KIA, Deepak and Satish are secretly recorded in a 40min conversation:

D: I'm not going outside much (in prison), since they're asking too much
shit.
S: When you stay on your own, you'll start to think too much, so don't stay
on your own. Talk to people. Play domino.
D: I've told them that they should arrest Freddy as well.
S: The three of us have been arrested, but he just knows the truth.
D: I've told them to arrest Koen and Sander as well. f***ing all of them.
From me, they won't get any hint, as long as the truth keeps hanging. None
of them are friends, except for us. Do you get it? Do I get it? (<- this is
a Dutch saying when " something doesn't make sense")
S: I have nothing, there is nothing, nothing from me and I didn't do
anything.
D: I'm not afraid of that shit
S: I'm not afraid. I don't worry.
D: I want them to get ("find") the girl, so, but preferably alive. But
anyway, if they'll find her dead, yeh, then that's bad luck for the family.
But when they find her, they'll know exactly who did it. That's what I all
learned from (???). I want them to get her. I know (???)
S: I know where I am. I am close to the truth. I'm always close to the
truth.
D: I'm not afraid. I do miss mum and all those things. That bores me.
S: Yes.
D: Not that I'm afraid. The worst has already happened. I've already come to
the worst place, so nothing worse than this can happen, do you understand?
But I know, that when I get outside (be released) then they are going to pay
me very well.
D: I'm not afraid. It also depends on that f***ing statement. Yeh, since
there's one (or a) person who changes his story every time. That (person)
has made already six statements, I guess. But they are all pure shit (???)
and I'm still in it (here).

S: (???)
D: You push (???)
S: And by let give to let go (???)
D: It is impossible, swa. When you start that car the whole neighborhood
will hear it.
S: Anyway, he seems to know everything better.
D: He knows our rule, we trust him as a friend, like a brother to be close
with (???)
S: Anyway, bad luck.
D: And I also trusted Freddy like a brother.
S: Yes.
D: But he also talked shit, that's why we've been arrested.
S: What did he say?
D: He keeps information behind. You know that Van der Sloot trusts Freddy
with his life. Freddy knows what has happened. Freddy knows the truth.
S: I know he knows truth
D: Freddy knows, Freddy knows.

S: I've just said, Freddy also knows about the story of what happened, ask
him.
D: Freddy knows
S: Yes, he knows that if that person maybe has told him some details (???)
that I don't know, but I also know what that person has told me. That is the
first and the story that we made up, that I know (???)

D: That boy is also arrested, no. Steve. He has been solved too, so then
it's solved too (???)
S: He didn't do a thing.
D: It has been solved.
(.)
D: Up till today, I haven't told any shit about him, whether he did
something with the girl or that the chick.
S: We've only told the truth
D: Yep, because he hasn't told me anything and I don't know it. I'm not
gonna lie about him. But the more he talks (??????) I would never never
never talk shit about him like: "he did do this or that to the girl",
because I don't know.
S: Must just declare the truth
D: I'll never do that. But let him talk shit. I'll never say something
against or about (???) him. Never, just tell the truth. And that's also what
I've always declared in my statements. His attorney will point that out to
himself. I'll never (falsely) accuse somebody.

In a second statement on June 13th, Freddy "keeps insisting" that Joran told him the HI story on May 30th. In his sixth and seventh statements Freddy repeated that Joran had unsuccesfully tried to revive an unconsious Natalee and that Joran thought that a black tourist couple on the beach would look after Natalee.

P153

The girl said that if the Kalpoe brothers would had lived in her city,
they would have been slaves. After this they drove to the hotel. When the
girl opened the door of the car she fell on the ground. Joran wanted to help her, but she pushed him away. [...]

The next day, Tuesday May 31st, 2005 in the afternoon I was with Joran
at the Racquet Club.
Joran looked worried. He asked me if I remembered
what he told me about the girl the day before, I said yes. The girl appeared to be missing.

P. 154

Joran characterizes Freddy's statement as remarkable, primarily because it was only in the night of May 30th May 31st that Joran concocted the HI drop off story as until he learned Natalee was missing, he had no reason to lie about his leaving Natalee on the beach.

Joran believes Freddy got the dates wrong and that he told Freddy the lie on May 31st. Joran denies having stated that the girl fell unconscious and that "we" left her on the beach. Joran does not consider the mistakes strange as witnesses often have problems concerning dates, events from almost two weeks earlier.

That night (presumably the 12th) Freddy and his parents visited the VDS parents and Freddy told them and Antonio Carlo what had happened.

P. 155

Freddy again told his version of his and Joran's May 30th conversation. Carlo constantly asks Freddy why Freddy thought Joran said or did what Freddy was relating Joran said or did.

Paulus says nothing to Freddy but did ask Anita "Why does Joran lie, and why did he not tell us.
             ---------------------------------------------------------

I believe they caught themselves in their own lies, again....IIRC the Racqut Club was Monday the 30th....so now Joran,Freddy and David were at the Racuet Club and who else was there? Koen...Sander...Guido...Dos Santos....more homework!

Remember Sander told Freddy that his phone was stolen....now when was it stolen -30th - and just when did he tell Freddy-31st....and why the heck would he tell Freddy....


I will go back and see what the statements say about Tuesday, May 31st and the Raquet Club, but I don't recall them being there two days in a row. Somehow I can't see them congregating there after the Twitty's arrived either.










Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 29, 2008, 06:41:10 AM
would that suite be the "Great House" with a window overlooking Babylon?


LOL...this is about the only one I have got....

COLUMBO'S  Path.....the Penthouse at the Wyndham...
Joran delivered Natalee to the 'Black team"....but again IIRC the Security Guards for the Soul Beach Festival wore black also.

Per Shango, somewhere in the riddle, 'a elder'....doesn't appear to be talking about Paulus IIRC....Jaime's Dad works at the Wyndham....LOL....maybe more useless information

I recall something to the effect 'she was a virgin...made you mad....you had to give her up'. Who said this? Was it a post that was deemed to be a fake. I haven't seen it in my reading....TIA



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 29, 2008, 07:02:58 AM
According to Caps I'm on the wrong path again....LOL

From the main thread....quote...


CapsLockWizard on January 27, 2008, 11:10:39 AM


No monkeys it is not the Black Team

it is new becuase not even Babalu knows who they are

it is the BSB and the BBE "

it is the new Quick Intervention Unit. The QIU


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 29, 2008, 07:29:45 AM
many card game references......but what game is being played? not poker.......

".............even if you play cards as an Arawak"

"......some elders of the game, not just of babylon (Arawak game, too), walk in older circles....."

Not all expert players of the game (elders--those wise to the game) are young, some have been doing this a long time or are old or hang out with older people.  (Joran hangs out with his Dad).



Neither 'game' is describing cards here.....review the posts

Babylon:   'the game'=prostitution, children of the elders 'play'

arawaks:   '..........hold the singing cards, there is also a trio' [hint, they are in jail]


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Bearlyhere on January 29, 2008, 08:39:15 AM
many card game references......but what game is being played? not poker.......

".............even if you play cards as an Arawak"

"......some elders of the game, not just of babylon (Arawak game, too), walk in older circles....."

Not all expert players of the game (elders--those wise to the game) are young, some have been doing this a long time or are old or hang out with older people.  (Joran hangs out with his Dad).



Neither 'game' is describing cards here.....review the posts

Babylon:   'the game'=prostitution, children of the elders 'play'

arawaks:   '..........hold the singing cards, there is also a trio' [hint, they are in jail]

I don't think the game is cards, while I thought it was sexual, I didn't think it was prostitution, I thought it was involuntary.

Maybe I should start a thread for Shango in the "Shallow End."



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 29, 2008, 09:15:59 AM
I was trying to put this to rest one way or the other as I still have my other ‘David’ to follow up on. Strange I started with ‘only David left the den alive’ and look where it led me. I can’t tell if Pita’s and jackb’s David are the same. I am absolutely no good at pics. So have put the link Nut found right in the middle.


David Wever/Lorenzo Wever?Guido Wever

 Jacobus Lorenzo ‘David’ Wever that died at age 69, jackb said he left for Holland, may have been the manager at the HI casino


Lorenzo/Guido Wever -  we already know all about him, or do we?


David Wever – from Pita page 46 of the other thread – leaning against what appears to be a white pickup.

http://www.hi5.com/friend/584378--Dave--Profile-html


David Wever – that jackb posted on page 69 and which Klaas posted the picture on page 70.

Lorenzo van Rijn/Gijn/Sijn…..need I say more!




Lorenzo Wever?
Rjames forums…9/9/2005
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:LoWHbBrK9kIJ:www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/08/natalee_hollowa_48.html+%2B%22natalee+Holloway%22+%2Bbreakfast+%2Bbrunch+%2Bolder+man&hl=en
Posted by: Noplanstovisit | Aug 21, 2005 5:32:10 AM

"Tag team set up. Lorenzo Wever (casino employee, flew to Holland right after Natalee’s disappearance) befriends Natalie and makes sure he sits with her at breakfast so that observers will think something is going on between them (and maybe so, maybe not)."

"About all I'll say - 24 was the age I heard. And I am aware of a poker dealer who allegedly quit and left Aruba the day after he was questioned. Have no more info on that."
Posted by: Dan | Aug 21, 2005 3:14:08 AM



Snipped from a post on Jan 26th.

I did find over at Refugees that someone seems to think these below are the three people being arrested. They say that Guido Wever was arrested last Wed and is the subject of the Dutch news interview and the one that Aruba wants to come back to be charged,that his attorney will fight this. One person said this Wever is not Lorenzo, but I am not sure about that. One said that Wever is not his Dutch last name, but his Dutch name does not exist in Aruba so he is called Wever - I have no idea is this is accurate and did not see this posted but once.
                                    ------------------------


http://bfnbackup.16.forumer.com/a/hiram-vrolijk-friend-of-joran_post77.html


GrannyToad- 05-27-2006

Why does it matter who this boy is? He isn't even close to being one of the suspects. We never know if or which of Joran's pals were involved in what way with Natalee being disappeared, ladytiger. You have your personal interests, at BFN we want Natalee found or to learn how she was Disappeared. that doesn't mean that we have to discuss every distrant friend or every kid that was on the same school as a suspect. There are already way too much suspects to begin with. Discussing every person on the island in Joran's age group is not productive IMHO.
‘Ya spose? I knew about Guido a couple months before his name came up. Oh yeah, really last June except that Tito made a mistake and referred to him as Lorenzo. There is another Lorenzo, Wever, at that casino so I understand the mistake if Tito didn't know either well. So if in cases like Guido's and Koen's whom I'd also identified before they hit the blogs, it's good to know. Are there more to know, besides Freddy, Jaime, Steve Croes, the Kalpoe brothers ... ?’
                         ---------------------------------------


January 23, 2008, 05:42:17 AM -mine
Lala's...I found these posts from *******....on: January 02, 2008, 07:48:19 PM  Quote from: ******* on January 02, 2008, 07:08:12 PMQuote from: ******* on January 02, 2008, 05:40:27 PMLorenzo who was questioned but released because of an alibi provided by Babylonians who couldn’t be disbelieved due to the positions their parents hold in government We know Guido's dad is Robert Wever a politician and the chairman of the Aliansa / MSA. No idea if Guido is related to Booshi Wever or the other high ranking Wevers. But I have long been suspicious that PVDS was not the only father who influenced this case.
                             ----------------------------------

January 23, 2008, 04:35:03 AM - mine
Seeing Guido is being discussed again, this is what I found in the last LCD before we went to the new format and had posted tn the Shango and Simian thread.....Bringing this discussion from August forward as Jossy is quoted as saying that it was not Guido who had the scratches.    dialogue from final LCD thread on August 11, 2007, 07:07:02 PMHow did Guido get into this picture, charged as suspected as being accomplice to among other things heavy battery, "Grievous Bodily Harm". What time did Guido leave work that late night? Anybody think that Guido was questioned in the first week of June 05 because of scratch/other witnesses, unrelated to Joran...initially?I've a question. Did Jossy say or write that the scratches were on GvC not Guido?He was detained last Wednesday. He was considered a witness in June, 2005. Since February of this year, he is now a suspect. Prosecutor in Aruba want him very quickly. Main evidence against him is witness made statements against him. He claims that he is innocent and never met Natalee last June.
Jossy says he will have to come back to Aruba and the case will go forward in court. Guido Wever is his name. He did not have scratches or bruises on him last June. He was interrogated last June. Good friend of Joran. Played Tennis with him and gambles with Joran. Jossy believes Guido is in bigger trouble than GVC ever was. GVC never knew Joran.Also, according to Jossy Mansur of Diario in Aruba Guido Weaver is not the individual that was arrested the other day with the scratches on his face. Guido Weaver is another detained individual. The identity of the individual who was arrested with the scratches has yet to be identified.
                     ---------------------------------------------

January 14, 2008, 02:37:37 PM - mine
Do we know if Guido is Aruban or Dutch? I'm getting kinda stuck on someone else running off to the Netherlands...but that's because in the back of my mind I have one of the SG's mothers saying 'dutch brothers' from an influential family.
                     -------------------------------------------

January 11, 2008, 11:00:53 AM mine
From June 5th 2005….8.34AM …Arbeej

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?t=2244&page=6



quote:
"* One of the 3 original "persons of interest" is the son of a Judge on the island of Aruba..."

This was actually confirmed for us by an Aruban news reporter. He confirmed that one is the son of a judge, the other the son of a lawyer. It was not, however, clarified as to whether their Dads and the rest of the families live and work on Aruba. The three boys, though born in other countries, are legal residents of Aruba. I do not Know long they have lived there, but they are indeed legal residents.                   
                         -------------------------------------------


I will quit here as this path starts leading me to Sander and Koen.
 
So I wonder who were the two Dutch brothers reportedly arrested early on?

Lorenzo/Joran

Koen/Sander

Or maybe Guido and David are brothers. (But definately not blond)

All Arubans are Dutch, but not all Dutch are Arubans!




Link that leads to Gottenbos….a couple of posts on pages 2 and 3

http://www.katablog.com/month_blogs.cfm?m=5&y=2006&pagenum=2

And this one takes me back to Sander

January 26, 2008, 09:45:29 PM - mine
Think I found my blue-eyed Dutchboy with the scratches and of course his phone was stolen...now let's see if the sitemeter goes crazy...LOL:
 Mon May 22, 2006 1:22 am   
 Post subject:  from hyscience 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You're welcome Harry. It has been interesting to read around and I may have just gotten more confused than clarified. I'm going to bed now. You and me seem to be the only one's up late tonight and commenting.
 
There seem to be enough folks speculating about three people that my guess is there will be if it has not happened already. I think your original assessment that this Wever arrest is more than a suspect, perhaps a real charge, is likely accurate. The only reason I might guess that it may not be is the interview with Joe T >> I just didn't get the impression that he was convinced since he stressed they had known about him since the beginning.
 
One post somewhere said that Weaver worked the casino the night Natalee disappeared, my impression was for a few hours after her disappearance, and that others who worked with him thought he acted nervous (that wasn't their adjective, but it was similar), then he abruptly quit after her disappearance and moved to Holland. It is claimed by some he had scratches and bruises after here disappearance, but some were disputing this. He and Joran also were alleged to have played tennis the afternoon after Natalee disappeared.
 
I did find over at Refugees that someone seems to think these below are the three people being arrested. They say that Guido Wever was arrested last Wed and is the subject of the Dutch news interview and the one that Aruba wants to come back to be charged,that his attorney will fight this. One person said this Wever is not Lorenzo, but I am not sure about that. One said that Wever is not his Dutch last name, but his Dutch name does not exist in Aruba so he is called Wever - I have no idea is this is accurate and did not see this posted but once.

There is some speculation that the Columbian that some claim to have been arrested in Aruba may be the famous Jossy witness gardener. I'll just be tyou will have it all sorted out by Friday.
 
Here are the three:
 
1. Guido Wever who use to work at the Excelcior Casino as "dealer", who use to play tennis at the Aruba Raquet club, and who is the son of a political party's leader, Robert Wever, was detained in the Netherlands.
 
2. Sander G. is the kid in school in Aruba that left before his finals and flew to Holland last week and now is detained in the Netherlands. (Some speculated that he is Koen's younger brother, but don't know if this is accurate.)

Carlos Alberto Penata Ramos is a Colombian man who was detained in Aruba. (Some speculated that he also is Jossy's gardener witness.)





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 29, 2008, 10:08:48 AM
Found them in the next thread... ::MonkeyDance::

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 2:23 pm
The older Van Der Sloot has been taken in again by Aruban Police.

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 2:27 pm
Can’t confirm that he is detained. He has been taken in again by the authorities.



These are the two Simian posts that I found when we were missing 11.

Didn't notice until this morning that Simian says 'again' in both posts....

So is this Paulus' 2nd detainment....where does that leave our #5?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 29, 2008, 01:02:37 PM
jackb...have a look at the link up towards the top of the long post and see if that is the same one.....I snagged your post from the other thread....thanks

quote jackb.....

David Wever, it has been said is Guido's big brother.  There seems to be an abundance of big brother sets here.  As for the accuracy of him being Guids's bog brother.  I do not know.  The picture where the truck is does not look like David W., unless it is an older picture.    Jack B



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 29, 2008, 01:39:30 PM
Would really like to know if Lorenzo's name is van Gijn or Rijn...I believe what I saw when he was arrested was van Gijn...

Judge critical of aviation
25 Aug, 2003, 11:36pm 25 2003, 11:36 pm

WILLEMSTAD — In het kort geding van BonairExel tegen de minister van Verkeer en Vervoer toonde de rechter zich vanmorgen zeer kritisch naar de autoriteit. WILLEMSTAD - The interim relief of BonairExel against the Minister of Transport, Public Works and Transportation showed the court this morning is very critical to the authority. Namens de overheid wilde advocaat Bertie Braam op aangeven van de rechter het geschil niet onderling oplossen. On behalf of the government lawyer wanted Bertie Braam on entering the court the dispute is not resolved mutually. Vooruitlopend op het verliezen van het kort geding kondigde de raadsman aan een bodemprocedure te starten. Ahead of losing the interim measures announced counsel to the merits start.

De nieuwe maatschappij Dutch Eagle Express (BonairExel) kreeg van de minister geen toestemming voor de route Curaçao-Aruba vice versa. The new company Dutch Eagle Express (BonairExel) got no permission from the Minister for the route Curacao-Aruba vice versa. Na eerder ook al de economische vergunning via de rechter te hebben afgedwongen, stapte de Bonaireaanse maatschappij opnieuw naar de rechter. After previously even though the economic permit from the court to have enforced stepped Bonaireaanse society, return to the court. Vanmorgen verzocht het vliegbedrijf om een voorlopige voorziening om naar Aruba te mogen vliegen vanaf vliegveld Hato. This morning asked the airline for an interim injunction to Aruba to fly from Hato Airport. Vanmiddag na het ter perse gaan van deze editie volgde uitspraak in de zaak. This afternoon after going to press this issue followed ruling in the case.

Judge sorry the translated page didn't copy
Rechter Leo van Gijn
wilde vooral van de bewindsman en het Departement van Luchtvaart horen waarom het eerste artikel van de verleende vergunning alle ruimte biedt aan de luchtvaartmaatschappij om vanuit bestemmingen in de Antillen naar andere bestemmingen binnen en buiten de Antillen te vliegen. Judge Leo van Gijn wanted especially the Minister in the Department of Aerospace know why the first article of the authorization granted to all space on the carrier to destinations in from the West Indies to other destinations within and outside the West Indies to fly. De aanwezige luchtvaartdirecteur Siegfried Fransisco stelde dat de ruimte in beginsel normaal was. The present luchtvaartdirecteur Siegfried Fransisco claimed that the area was normal, in principle. En dat het vervolgens aan de minister is om te bekijken voor welke vluchten hij wel en geen toestemming verleent. And then to the Minister to see what he does and no flights permission

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://baba.lusink.biz/viewtopic.php%3Ft%3D66%26sid%3D7f8ab13a96017a257decc3c0b007b638&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dvan%2Bgijn%2Baruba%26start%3D40%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN


Guess I should have done a tinyurl......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 29, 2008, 01:53:32 PM
I knew I'd seen it...Jossy used Gijn...the other paper used Rijn...From what I've seen the Gijn family is influential and has a history in The netherlands...

#471 on: June 21, 2007, 11:39:26 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/6/21/


Quote
Cas yena cu camara, yen di cacho brabo y rondona cu prikkel draad…
LORENZO VAN GIJN DETENI PA PLANTACION GRANDI
DI MARIHUANA NA SAVANETA

ORANJESTAD(AAN):Lorenzo van Gijn no ta un desconoci di polis. Den e bishitanan cu e Team Bijzondere Projecten a haci na diferente lugar, su cas no tabata un excepcion.

E ta biba den Yaraweg y na su cas e team special a pasa basta dolor di cabez pa drenta. E cas ta full rondona cu prikkeldraad, camara tur rond y algun monster di cacho den cura. Asina mes e agentenan a drenta y cu shotgun den man pa defende nan mes contra e cachonan brabo.

Despues di basta grita no a haya ningun hende ta reacciona y drentando den e cas a bin topa cu Lorenzo van Gijn morto na soño. El a wordo lanta mesora y a bay directamente cune unda e droga tabata na diferente parti bon sera den cura patras di cas.

Den un cooler na e cas a haya masha hopi marihuana tambe. A listra den diferente autonan costoso den e cura di cas.

Den discoteca priva tambe a haya marihuana mientras cu a confisca un ice jug yen di placa. Lorenzo van Gijn a bisa polis cu ta pa propio uso.

Otro mas cu ta kere den storia of ta kere cu tur hende ta pensa mescos cune. Riba e fotonan aki por mira mas di e accion na cas di Lorenzo van Gijn den Yara Weg.



Lorenzo - apparently - arrested.

Online Pap translation:

cas fill cu camara, complete of cacho brabo y rondona cu prikkel draad…
lorenzo van gijn deteni for plantacion big
of marihuana at savaneta

oranjestad(aan):lorenzo van gijn do not one desconoci of police. in the bishitanan cu the team bijzondere projecten owing to haci at various lugar, his cas not was one excepcion.

the live in yaraweg y at his cas the team special owing to happen enough dolor of cabez for enter. the cas is full rondona cu prikkeldraad, camara all rond y some monster of cacho in cura. so self the agentenan owing to enter y cu shotgun in hand for defende they self contra the cachonan brabo.

after of enough bark not owing to achieve none person is reacciona y drentando in the cas owing to come come across cu lorenzo van gijn dead at dream. past owing to wordo arise at once y owing to bay directamente cune where the drugs was at various part good close in cura behind cas.

in one cooler at the cas owing to achieve very much marihuana also. owing to listra in various autonan costoso in the cura of cas.

in discoteca priva also owing to achieve marihuana while cu owing to confisca one ice jug complete of coin. lorenzo van gijn owing to tell police cu is for own usage.

another more cu is believe in storia or is believe cu everybody is think same cune. on the fotonan here can see more of the accion at home of lorenzo van gijn in yara weg.
 
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 29, 2008, 02:30:22 PM
Good Moring Monkeys

Monkeys....to not rattle the cage to much.....soldier will wakeup   sleeping soldier are more easy to hunt



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 29, 2008, 02:34:13 PM
we all need to get to gether offline. how? I do not know


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 29, 2008, 02:35:22 PM
Good Moring Monkeys

Monkeys....to not rattle the cage to much.....soldier will wakeup   sleeping soldier are more easy to hunt



Hi Caps...who is rattling the cage?......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 29, 2008, 02:35:34 PM
Wat about Monkey HQ


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 29, 2008, 02:36:42 PM
How about Monkey HQ whew all info reside.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 29, 2008, 02:40:34 PM
Caps...I don't understand what you are trying to say...what is wrong with posting right here?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 29, 2008, 02:47:08 PM
Caps.....I still don't understand.... ::MonkeyWaa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 29, 2008, 02:50:07 PM
new type of netwok to to discuss this....h.tmail.com can be used for private on invitation only access
trusted monkeys with good source of infos.

Klaasend you have my email on invitation only.Conference style


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Helen Back on January 29, 2008, 03:07:27 PM
new type of netwok to to discuss this....h.tmail.com can be used for private on invitation only access
trusted monkeys with good source of infos.

Klaasend you have my email on invitation only.Conference style

Klass, my group uses Acrobat connect.  It's good and cheap, too, but Dugga can probably set up something for you.
 ::MonkeyWink::
Helen



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: ala_gunslinger on January 29, 2008, 03:17:04 PM
loesge may be right.......

I can't decipher code, but I do have this:

1.   loesge Says:
April 22nd, 2006 at 5:41 am
Gunslinger Says:
April 21st, 2006 at 7:06 pm
they filmed her de-flowering.
who was the actor?
——————————————-
ODUBER

2.   loesge Says:
April 22nd, 2006 at 5:51 am
Gunslinger Says:
April 21st, 2006 at 7:34 pm
The video was filmed live and
on location at the neighborhood
Holiday Inn.
““““““““““““““““
no,
it was the Wyndham


3.   loesge Says:
April 22nd, 2006 at 6:00 am
connect the dots to Bob Smith, manager of the Wyndham who also is head of the “black-clad” visability team. It was those black-clad “guards” who intercepted Natalee from Joran, NOT the two guards who were arrested. Joran delivered Natalee to a “House his father was known to be at”= Casablanca= “white house”.
The visability guards handed her over to Paulus and he, ultimately to Oduber.
The Lions prefer nice accomodations for their deflowerings. Presidential suite, anyone?
It’s an ongoing racket.


Buckeye and Colombo, I've never seen this.  However, this does back up some of my feelings about the story.  What do you know about these posts?





I remember it, of course.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 29, 2008, 03:19:54 PM
Caps...can't you give us a clue to what you have found....ask COLUMBO I am terrible at riddles....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on January 29, 2008, 03:21:45 PM
.......from whom are we hiding this valuable knowledge? I doubt there are subjects/speculation/information that hasn't already been talked about in the past. At least in here some of the information is committed to print and hence record. MOO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 29, 2008, 03:34:37 PM
Caps...come back we need to know more...how the heck do we know what is waking up the soldiers?????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on January 29, 2008, 03:37:07 PM
jackb...have a look at the link up towards the top of the long post and see if that is the same one.....I snagged your post from the other thread....thanks

quote jackb.....

David Wever, it has been said is Guido's big brother.  There seems to be an abundance of big brother sets here.  As for the accuracy of him being Guids's bog brother.  I do not know.  The picture where the truck is does not look like David W., unless it is an older picture.    Jack B

The picture upon enhancing looks more like Koen G. and the "boy" appears to actually be a girl.  The enhancements faded the thin-line-like beard on the other young looking boy, but he has no break in the bottom half of his clothes that indicates slacks (pants or whatever.)  The light on who I am saying could be Koen appears to be glasses, but maybe not.  If so, I do not recall seeing him in a pair.  The picture has, no doubt been messed around until it is really hard to tell who it is.  I do believe I have seen Koen's picture in a pink-like shirt.  This really is a wierd and wild bunch that is being dealt with here.  The picture, if a boy with Koen, looks like (a bit) GVC, but when enhanced has NH features, but the hair is tucked up or done over with some pixels to blend it in.  Maybe some of you can do something with it.  It is on my list to "work on," but getting to it is another matter.   




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 29, 2008, 03:43:17 PM
jackb...have a look at the link up towards the top of the long post and see if that is the same one.....I snagged your post from the other thread....thanks

quote jackb.....

David Wever, it has been said is Guido's big brother.  There seems to be an abundance of big brother sets here.  As for the accuracy of him being Guids's bog brother.  I do not know.  The picture where the truck is does not look like David W., unless it is an older picture.    Jack B

The picture upon enhancing looks more like Koen G. and the "boy" appears to actually be a girl.  The enhancements faded the thin-line-like beard on the other young looking boy, but he has no break in the bottom half of his clothes that indicates slacks (pants or whatever.)  The light on who I am saying could be Koen appears to be glasses, but maybe not.  If so, I do not recall seeing him in a pair.  The picture has, no doubt been messed around until it is really hard to tell who it is.  I do believe I have seen Koen's picture in a pink-like shirt.  This really is a wierd and wild bunch that is being dealt with here.  The picture, if a boy with Koen, looks like (a bit) GVC, but when enhanced has NH features, but the hair is tucked up or done over with some pixels to blend it in.  Maybe some of you can do something with it.  It is on my list to "work on," but getting to it is another matter.   




Thanks jackb....did you go to that hi5 whatever link back on the last page...I think there was 13 pictures.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 29, 2008, 03:46:25 PM
Klaasend:

check Mbox


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on January 29, 2008, 04:37:15 PM
.......from whom are we hiding this valuable knowledge? I doubt there are subjects/speculation/information that hasn't already been talked about in the past. At least in here some of the information is committed to print and hence record. MOO

Looks like we finally have a live one here BB  ::MonkeyCool::

I have to re-read this thread again to try and digest a lot of the new theories posted in my recent absence as it appears those garnered in the past two and a half years have now gone base over apex, but my first question is :
Shango and Simian posted in English so why is there a need to translate perfectly understandable English words into other words that have a totally different meaning eg. "music" altered to "news"?

With apologies to the original author :

Old King Cole was a merry old soul,
And a merry old soul was he;
He called for his pipe, he called for his glass,
And he called for his riddlers three.

Every riddler he had a fine riddle,
And a very fine riddle had he;
Twee-tweedle-dee, tweedle-dee, went the riddlers.
Oh, there's none so rare as can compare
With King Cole and his riddlers three!

Riddlers three :  Shango, Simian and Shonky.

.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 29, 2008, 04:52:36 PM
many card game references......but what game is being played? not poker.......

".............even if you play cards as an Arawak"

"......some elders of the game, not just of babylon (Arawak game, too), walk in older circles....."

Not all expert players of the game (elders--those wise to the game) are young, some have been doing this a long time or are old or hang out with older people.  (Joran hangs out with his Dad).



Neither 'game' is describing cards here.....review the posts

Babylon:   'the game'=prostitution, children of the elders 'play'

arawaks:   '..........hold the singing cards, there is also a trio' [hint, they are in jail]

I don't think the game is cards, while I thought it was sexual, I didn't think it was prostitution, I thought it was involuntary.

Maybe I should start a thread for Shango in the "Shallow End."




pimpin is called 'the game'....

Arawaks often go to play in the small houses of babylon with the offspring of the elders

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation (LE & gov't folks, not their kids!)
meet, under cover of delusion.
In the maze
the lions which play   (& pay)
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note. (note-money)
Tell the cowboys!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on January 29, 2008, 04:55:00 PM
Yellowhammer

Alabama has been known as the "Yellowhammer State" since the Civil War. The yellowhammer nickname was applied to the Confederate soldiers from Alabama when a company of young cavalry soldiers from Huntsville, under the command of Rev. D.C. Kelly, arrived at Hopkinsville, KY, where Gen. Forrest's troops were stationed. The officers and men of the Huntsville company wore fine, new uniforms, whereas the soldiers who had long been on the battlefields were dressed in faded, worn uniforms. On the sleeves, collars and coattails of the new calvary troop were bits of brilliant yellow cloth. As the company rode past Company A , Will Arnett cried out in greeting "Yellowhammer, Yellowhammer, flicker, flicker!" The greeting brought a roar of laughter from the men and from that moment the Huntsville soldiers were spoken of as the "yellowhammer company." The term quickly spread throughout the Confederate Army and all Alabama troops were referred to unofficially as the "Yellowhammers."


http://www.archives.state.al.us/emblems/st_bird.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on January 29, 2008, 05:25:55 PM
Yellow hammer=white woman


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on January 29, 2008, 05:38:48 PM
I think sometimes we can delve to deep in looking for meanings in what Shango has written. I, having been on-line when the writings were posted, recall the speed with which these posts were made. IMO the time intervals between posts are significant in that there were minutes not hours or days or longer to conceive of hidden double meanings, parallel historical references and the like. There was time to pull from a personal frame of knowledge and INTEREST(ie comic references) and background. I am sure many will disagree......MOO. That being said, HI Tibro


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on January 29, 2008, 05:56:36 PM
I think sometimes we can delve to deep in looking for meanings in what Shango has written. I, having been on-line when the writings were posted, recall the speed with which these posts were made. IMO the time intervals between posts are significant in that there were minutes not hours or days or longer to conceive of hidden double meanings, parallel historical references and the like. There was time to pull from a personal frame of knowledge and INTEREST(ie comic references) and background. I am sure many will disagree......MOO. That being said, HI Tibro

I also believe that many of Simians relate in real time to what we now know was happening per the PV and witness list.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on January 29, 2008, 05:57:44 PM
.......from whom are we hiding this valuable knowledge? I doubt there are subjects/speculation/information that hasn't already been talked about in the past. At least in here some of the information is committed to print and hence record. MOO

I also think we do better as a collective mind.  We not only help each other remember, we keep each other in check.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on January 29, 2008, 05:59:47 PM
Gunslinger  if still around...

Do you remember much about loesge?  Think she was on more than one board.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 29, 2008, 06:01:07 PM
in light of some of CAP'S posts and loesge......was just thinking-what political leader held more concentrated power than any other during the 90's?

Monica Lewinsky......

But the Arawak king controls destiny of all. The Arawak king has DirtyHands and DirtyFeet. If he is to reign anew, he cannot be soiled more.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Of whom is the young Babylonian afraid?
Why won’t he talk?


Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid Arawak King who wishes to blame the babylonians for the behaviour of lowly minions.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:11 am
All the Arawaks know the Maze which plays the poison songs


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on January 29, 2008, 06:19:39 PM
Government elections were held September 23 2005 in Aruba. Oduber was reelected. Does this fit? Oduber =Arawak King

The Arawak king has DirtyHands and DirtyFeet. If he is to reign anew, he cannot be soiled more.




http://tinyurl.com/389beu


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 29, 2008, 06:23:07 PM
with 'goods' like that you could build anything on Aruba


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: ala_gunslinger on January 29, 2008, 06:26:21 PM
Gunslinger  if still around...

Do you remember much about loesge?  Think she was on more than one board.

Gunslinger - Always around

If I had time, I would research the name 'loesge'.  I think it may be a letter jumble (jmho).  A lot of people dismissed the idea, not me.  To me, this fits with what you guys are discussing.

This person seemed to know more than the average.  Not sure about 'other' boards, as I had sought another path by that time.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Altruist on January 29, 2008, 06:28:56 PM
In some instances maze could refer to the internet.

We feel that there are many involved in the coverup, think that Simian & some of the other co conspirator's could have utilized a popular public message board to exchange information fearing phone taps & records.  Shango I always felt was a misinformation poster.

So with a full blown coverup taking place a safe way to communicate among persons involved would have been necessary, no way were then these persons seen speaking with each other alone in a suspicious manner, tracable by wired recordings, no out of ordinary visits to homes.  A reliable manner for persons involved, who worked for various departments & were parents to communicate. 

We now know that the location of an ISP does not necessarily indicate a poster's location.  There is equipment out there, think they are called ghosts, that change ISP's or go through other ISP's.

The intention was NEVER to DISCLOSE the location of Natalee, think it was always to communicate under cover & safely.  Could indicate information thus disclosed allowing the next story to be manufactured for the next visit to JVDStoolscum=the story teller, how many times were the stories changed?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on January 29, 2008, 06:53:58 PM
Gunslinger  if still around...

Do you remember much about loesge?  Think she was on more than one board.

Gunslinger - Always around

If I had time, I would research the name 'loesge'.  I think it may be a letter jumble (jmho).  A lot of people dismissed the idea, not me.  To me, this fits with what you guys are discussing.

This person seemed to know more than the average.  Not sure about 'other' boards, as I had sought another path by that time.



GS:

Had wondered the same.....now, what language?!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on January 29, 2008, 07:00:14 PM
Government elections were held September 23 2005 in Aruba. Oduber was reelected. Does this fit? Oduber =Arawak King

The Arawak king has DirtyHands and DirtyFeet. If he is to reign anew, he cannot be soiled more.




http://tinyurl.com/389beu

Well, the previous editor of Aruba Today was an Oduber and he owns the Solo whatever paper.  I could see him powerful enough to control media and disinformation....at least try to until the US media started telling us "the not ready for prime time island" was a bit shady. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on January 29, 2008, 07:02:31 PM
In some instances maze could refer to the internet.

We feel that there are many involved in the coverup, think that Simian & some of the other co conspirator's could have utilized a popular public message board to exchange information fearing phone taps & records.  Shango I always felt was a misinformation poster.

So with a full blown coverup taking place a safe way to communicate among persons involved would have been necessary, no way were then these persons seen speaking with each other alone in a suspicious manner, tracable by wired recordings, no out of ordinary visits to homes.  A reliable manner for persons involved, who worked for various departments & were parents to communicate. 

We now know that the location of an ISP does not necessarily indicate a poster's location.  There is equipment out there, think they are called ghosts, that change ISP's or go through other ISP's.

The intention was NEVER to DISCLOSE the location of Natalee, think it was always to communicate under cover & safely.  Could indicate information thus disclosed allowing the next story to be manufactured for the next visit to JVDStoolscum=the story teller, how many times were the stories changed?

This makes sense.

Wasn't there a lot of talk about the power of the ping and then Simian was gone..


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on January 29, 2008, 07:06:36 PM
Posted by Pita on previous Natalee thread:

scubajap
Posted: Sat Oct 28th, 2006 06:58 pm Quote Reply

This is not the poster printed before she left for Aruba. The poster printed before she left said "Kidnapped" but Jan v/d Stratten would not allow her to put those up, because no ransom demand was made. This is the first poster that went up, but it was printed in Aruba by Pro Graphics that Tuesday.

Just setting things straight. What she arrived with in Aruba said "Kidnapped"

Hi Loesje!

Last edited on Sat Oct 28th, 2006 07:00 pm by scubajap



I know scuba was on RWV. Is this the same loesge...but with a different spelling??


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on January 29, 2008, 07:09:35 PM
Government elections were held September 23 2005 in Aruba. Oduber was reelected. Does this fit? Oduber =Arawak King

The Arawak king has DirtyHands and DirtyFeet. If he is to reign anew, he cannot be soiled more.




http://tinyurl.com/389beu

Well, the previous editor of Aruba Today was an Oduber and he owns the Solo whatever paper.  I could see him powerful enough to control media and disinformation....at least try to until the US media started telling us "the not ready for prime time island" was a bit shady. 

Lots of Odubers, Arubian equivalent of Smith, just don't quite feel  anyone one of them would have the power of a king as in Shango's carefully worded prose as Nelson.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on January 29, 2008, 07:10:19 PM
Gunslinger  if still around...

Do you remember much about loesge?  Think she was on more than one board.

Gunslinger - Always around

If I had time, I would research the name 'loesge'.  I think it may be a letter jumble (jmho).  A lot of people dismissed the idea, not me.  To me, this fits with what you guys are discussing.

This person seemed to know more than the average.  Not sure about 'other' boards, as I had sought another path by that time.



GS:

Had wondered the same.....now, what language?!

There was a Loesje posting at RWV that appears to be from the Netherlands.  Maybe just a coincidence.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on January 29, 2008, 08:09:28 PM
Capslock translation:

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the NEWS and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED

Actual Shango riddle:
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED



Please explain how you came up with the NEWS as the MUSIC?  How does follow the music translate into follow the news?  Did you mean Julia or are you referring to Jossy Mansur also?  I think those two are the owners of the news around Aruba and if you mean real news I would think you mean Jossy...never read much that came from Julia's papers but fluff pieces and tall tales.

What does "Mary who was not a virgin" mean  in your context? Who are the DiceMen?  Shango capitalized them so is that significant? What does "rolled" mean in your context of the riddle?  I am sure you think these are minor things in the grand scheme, but they need to be answered in order to actually solve the riddle...well to me anyway. 

I have often wondered, since ice is delivered a lot on that island if they used an ICE truck to get her out of the maze.  The, perhaps corridors of some hotel that had hidden entrances to the outside, perhaps tunneling into caves that would hold private parties, etc.  Maybe she was in the wrong place and saw someone coming out or going in earlier in the week.  If the Cromvoirts had video equipment in place, there had to be walls and attics.  Perhaps they were showing a picture of her in various stages of dress in Depak's car and she wanted out and they stopped as she was kicking up a fuss and took off again forcing her with them.  It is my believ that she never went with them willingly.  They used the cops to help intimidate her into being more submissive.  There are several security officials and cops who have seemed to make at least myself suspicious with their behavior.  She could have been threatened with jail and said she left without paying the hotel or wherever for some charges.  Those people are dispicable what they have allowed to happen to that girl and her family.  That aside, she could have told the police and they put her in jail.  I would not put anything passed them.        j/b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 29, 2008, 08:51:20 PM
I am back, now that the wisperers stop fly in over my family hous...all kinds of touch came to mind...

move again.

Monkeys I believe that we should break the message to Dave and Beth before antone runs wild with it.

thats why I did not post anything yet,

Wat we need is some large water pumps. to do the job.





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on January 29, 2008, 08:55:49 PM
CapsLock - I agree.  No need to show your hand until it's at least checked out. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 29, 2008, 09:09:15 PM

Lets start preparing for a big case...all doc need to be safeguarded....photos, reference, research papers etc...concentrate on a case of conspiracy against an Nation Court House....The DUTCH LAW AND ITS JUDGES...


 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 29, 2008, 09:32:23 PM

Lets start preparing for a big case...all doc need to be safeguarded....photos, reference, research papers etc...concentrate on a case of conspiracy against an Nation Court House....The DUTCH LAW AND ITS JUDGES...


 



What is safer than multiple internet places with the information out in the public so that it can't be tampered with?  I must be missing something here. :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Pita on January 29, 2008, 09:34:13 PM
jackb...have a look at the link up towards the top of the long post and see if that is the same one.....I snagged your post from the other thread....thanks

quote jackb.....

David Wever, it has been said is Guido's big brother.  There seems to be an abundance of big brother sets here.  As for the accuracy of him being Guids's bog brother.  I do not know.  The picture where the truck is does not look like David W., unless it is an older picture.    Jack B

The picture upon enhancing looks more like Koen G. and the "boy" appears to actually be a girl.  The enhancements faded the thin-line-like beard on the other young looking boy, but he has no break in the bottom half of his clothes that indicates slacks (pants or whatever.)  The light on who I am saying could be Koen appears to be glasses, but maybe not.  If so, I do not recall seeing him in a pair.  The picture has, no doubt been messed around until it is really hard to tell who it is.  I do believe I have seen Koen's picture in a pink-like shirt.  This really is a wierd and wild bunch that is being dealt with here.  The picture, if a boy with Koen, looks like (a bit) GVC, but when enhanced has NH features, but the hair is tucked up or done over with some pixels to blend it in.  Maybe some of you can do something with it.  It is on my list to "work on," but getting to it is another matter.   




Thanks jackb....did you go to that hi5 whatever link back on the last page...I think there was 13 pictures.

Here's a current picture of David Wever from hi5.   IIRC, on his old tickle profile (no longer available,) his sexual orientation was homosexual.   This is who I believe was said to be Guido's brother.  He lives in the Netherlands, but is moving back to Aruba in February according to his hi5 profile.

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/CMPM/DavidWever.jpg)

http://www.hi5.com/friend/610939--David--Profile-html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 29, 2008, 09:46:45 PM
.......from whom are we hiding this valuable knowledge? I doubt there are subjects/speculation/information that hasn't already been talked about in the past. At least in here some of the information is committed to print and hence record. MOO

Looks like we finally have a live one here BB  ::MonkeyCool::

I have to re-read this thread again to try and digest a lot of the new theories posted in my recent absence as it appears those garnered in the past two and a half years have now gone base over apex, but my first question is :
Shango and Simian posted in English so why is there a need to translate perfectly understandable English words into other words that have a totally different meaning eg. "music" altered to "news"?

With apologies to the original author :

Old King Cole was a merry old soul,
And a merry old soul was he;
He called for his pipe, he called for his glass,
And he called for his riddlers three.

Every riddler he had a fine riddle,
And a very fine riddle had he;
Twee-tweedle-dee, tweedle-dee, went the riddlers.
Oh, there's none so rare as can compare
With King Cole and his riddlers three!

Riddlers three :  Shango, Simian and Shonky.

.


Who's Shonky? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 29, 2008, 09:51:44 PM
And how is this guy connected?  I am lost.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 29, 2008, 09:59:44 PM
And how is this guy connected?  I am lost.

LOL...did you not see your reading assignment this morning?

I was trying to put the Lorenzo/David/Guido Wever thing to rest. And this is David Wever.

Nice looking guy...I hope he doesn't have anything to do with this.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 29, 2008, 10:11:02 PM
.......from whom are we hiding this valuable knowledge? I doubt there are subjects/speculation/information that hasn't already been talked about in the past. At least in here some of the information is committed to print and hence record. MOO

Looks like we finally have a live one here BB  ::MonkeyCool::

I have to re-read this thread again to try and digest a lot of the new theories posted in my recent absence as it appears those garnered in the past two and a half years have now gone base over apex, but my first question is :
Shango and Simian posted in English so why is there a need to translate perfectly understandable English words into other words that have a totally different meaning eg. "music" altered to "news"?

With apologies to the original author :

Old King Cole was a merry old soul,
And a merry old soul was he;
He called for his pipe, he called for his glass,
And he called for his riddlers three.

Every riddler he had a fine riddle,
And a very fine riddle had he;
Twee-tweedle-dee, tweedle-dee, went the riddlers.
Oh, there's none so rare as can compare
With King Cole and his riddlers three!

Riddlers three :  Shango, Simian and Shonky.

.


Who's Shonky? 


The way Shango Riddle is written is not simple....He uses a technique morphing of two diffrent stories but with the same persons has two meaning. For  the not trained eyes, the word can be confusing. it can make you mind go crazy but you have to start first looking to similarties in the text and then look the format they are written and third pass is to a little knowledge of the word he use , and where is it come from, and used for...For a person that only speak 1 language, you will never solve it but if you can handle let say 6 or 7 languages, you can decipher it

E.G. What is Arawak

and what is a Simian



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 29, 2008, 10:14:15 PM
Caps....what did he go search for if not Natalee? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Helen Back on January 29, 2008, 10:21:46 PM
Caps....what did he go search for if not Natalee? TIA
the video


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 29, 2008, 10:24:46 PM
And how is this guy connected?  I am lost.

LOL...did you not see your reading assignment this morning?

I was trying to put the Lorenzo/David/Guido Wever thing to rest. And this is David Wever.

Nice looking guy...I hope he doesn't have anything to do with this.

No teacher, I didn't...I guess I have write...I will read my assignments...20 times now.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 29, 2008, 10:33:28 PM
I thought Shango was written in English?  ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 29, 2008, 10:35:30 PM
he went to search for the owner of the Yellow Hammer


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on January 29, 2008, 10:36:14 PM
CapsLockWizard wrote;

Quote
The way Shango Riddle is written is not simple....He uses a technique morphing of two diffrent stories but with the same persons has two meaning. For  the not trained eyes, the word can be confusing. it can make you mind go crazy but you have to start first looking to similarties in the text and then look the format they are written and third pass is to a little knowledge of the word he use , and where is it come from, and used for...For a person that only speak 1 language, you will never solve it but if you can handle let say 6 or 7 languages, you can decipher it

E.G. What is Arawak

and what is a Simian

Caps, I hear you on this. I personally have always felt that Shango knew what happened and with extensive education and literacy wrote the passages that he did, as they occurred and that is key in this IMO. He did not have the luxury of time as did say Homer writing the Iliad. His posts were relatively rapid in succession, and IMO hardly allowed for "same persons having two meaning" or multilinguistic meanings to words. I just think it is important not to read more into the passages than was meant to be there originally. Over time more about the case has become known and then and only then do we look back and say "Ah ha I am sure Shango was trying to say.......".  Just as in criminology one has to take care not to fit the crime to the clues...but rather have the clues solve the crime, so goes Shango.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 29, 2008, 10:37:53 PM
he went to search for the owner of the Yellow Hammer

Who went to search??  I am lost, my dear Caps.  Help me here.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: yapperz1 on January 29, 2008, 10:39:48 PM
So if someone only speaks 1 language, ie English, they can't decipher the true meaning of Shango's posts? Then who was Shango trying to get info too? Are you saying it was a coded language?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 29, 2008, 10:41:13 PM


First look who are the players before you start interpreting.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 29, 2008, 10:42:16 PM
yes it is coded


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 29, 2008, 10:43:06 PM
Caps are you talking about a Yellow Hummer or the phrase in Merian Ernest about the Yellowhammer?  Please clarify this for me.  It will help me understand.  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: yapperz1 on January 29, 2008, 10:44:33 PM
OK Caps who was searching for the owner of the yellow hammer?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 29, 2008, 10:45:27 PM


First look who are the players before you start interpreting.

Please, tell us the players....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 29, 2008, 10:48:36 PM

when pvds left the casino where did he go?

He went to seearch for the the extadite that yhe MIU needed to take out from the Island


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: yapperz1 on January 29, 2008, 10:53:42 PM

when pvds left the casino where did he go?

He went to seearch for the the extadite that yhe MIU needed to take out from the Island

Sorry I am not understanding this post. Can you explain please?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 29, 2008, 10:55:10 PM

when pvds left the casino where did he go?

He went to seearch for the the extadite that yhe MIU needed to take out from the Island

He went looking for the Marines?  How is that related to the yellowhammer?  Gosh! I am so confused.  I am so dumb!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 29, 2008, 11:04:00 PM

when pvds left the casino where did he go?

He went to seearch for the the extadite that yhe MIU needed to take out from the Island

Who was the extradite and why did he go looking for him? TIA Caps


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: kpg on January 29, 2008, 11:09:02 PM


Prevaricators. 


There is a reward posted for any information about Natalee.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on January 29, 2008, 11:09:45 PM
If Shango was fluent in 6 or 7 languages, I have to wonder why he used characters out of Marvel Comic Books.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: yapperz1 on January 29, 2008, 11:13:23 PM
If Shango was fluent in 6 or 7 languages, I have to wonder why he used characters out of Marvel Comic Books.



Not to be glib..but because he could? Or because he really really liked Marvel comic books


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 29, 2008, 11:17:15 PM
If Shango was fluent in 6 or 7 languages, I have to wonder why he used characters out of Marvel Comic Books.



And the Santeria religion.  Interesting.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on January 29, 2008, 11:45:18 PM
.......from whom are we hiding this valuable knowledge? I doubt there are subjects/speculation/information that hasn't already been talked about in the past. At least in here some of the information is committed to print and hence record. MOO

Looks like we finally have a live one here BB  ::MonkeyCool::

I have to re-read this thread again to try and digest a lot of the new theories posted in my recent absence as it appears those garnered in the past two and a half years have now gone base over apex, but my first question is :
Shango and Simian posted in English so why is there a need to translate perfectly understandable English words into other words that have a totally different meaning eg. "music" altered to "news"?

With apologies to the original author :

Old King Cole was a merry old soul,
And a merry old soul was he;
He called for his pipe, he called for his glass,
And he called for his riddlers three.

Every riddler he had a fine riddle,
And a very fine riddle had he;
Twee-tweedle-dee, tweedle-dee, went the riddlers.
Oh, there's none so rare as can compare
With King Cole and his riddlers three!

Riddlers three :  Shango, Simian and Shonky.

.


Who's Shonky? 

Sorry Lalas - you really have to be fluent in Strine to understand my post.   ::MonkeyWink::

.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 29, 2008, 11:50:07 PM

If you were so smart how come it is not decode yet?

lalmom: yapperz1: anna:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians (Suriname) do not like the Babylonian (Sloot’s) intrusion. The Babylonian (Sloot’s) card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian  (Suriname) feet (or feat)….


dum

go to you tube and watch some Dopple Ganger to undertand what was going on.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 29, 2008, 11:51:28 PM
Well, Tibro.  I'm shocked...just shocked.  ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 29, 2008, 11:53:54 PM

If you were so smart how come it is not decode yet?

lalmom: yapperz1: anna:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians (Suriname) do not like the Babylonian (Sloot’s) intrusion. The Babylonian (Sloot’s) card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian  (Suriname) feet (or feat)….


dum

go to you tube and watch some Dopple Ganger to undertand what was going on.




Look, I never said I was smart...I don't appreciate you talking to me like that at all.  I was merely making an observation about something and asking you to clarify things for me. I was hoping to be able to validate your claims...obviously that is not going to happen since I am not so smart.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on January 29, 2008, 11:54:01 PM
So if someone only speaks 1 language, ie English, they can't decipher the true meaning of Shango's posts? Then who was Shango trying to get info too? Are you saying it was a coded language?

Maybe the code was by being in English as we have seen that not many people from Aruba are really fluent in English as it is at best a third language to them and the nuances, spelling and syntax are completely lost.

Adding that I would rather master one language and understood by fellow speakers, than flounder around in multiple tongues, being misunderstood by everyone.   MOO.

.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 29, 2008, 11:56:19 PM
go here to learn more before you start makeing fun of people skills

http://globalrecordings.net/language/2337


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on January 29, 2008, 11:59:16 PM

If you were so smart how come it is not decode yet?

lalmom: yapperz1: anna:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians (Suriname) do not like the Babylonian (Sloot’s) intrusion. The Babylonian (Sloot’s) card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian  (Suriname) feet (or feat)….


dum

go to you tube and watch some Dopple Ganger to undertand what was going on.




I resent you speaking to my fellow monkeys in that way.  They have been here for the past two and a half years with their whole focus on justice for Natalee and answers for her family.

I have to comment that if you are so smart and have this solved why have you not stated your conclusions instead of only adding to the confusion by such obscure references.

Again MOO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 30, 2008, 12:02:26 AM
go here to learn more before you start makeing fun of people skills

http://globalrecordings.net/language/2337

I have never said anything about your skills. I have repeatedly asked questions trying to understand you and you have yet to afford me the courtesy of explaining things in a way I can understand it.  I am sorry you think I am making fun of your posts.  I am trying to understand what you are trying to tell us...but I can't understand it...I just can't.  Please, know that I will refrain from now on as much as I can and go back and reread your posts to try and gain a better understanding of what you mean.  My sincere apologies.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 30, 2008, 12:14:01 AM
but to assume that what I am saying is also wrong???

maybe I am Judging right now but is not my style. .. understand the riddle is hiding a bad thing and I am wondering why he did it this way. but Also I am on your side, and my contribution is to solve a problem. I have notting to do with this case by the riddle sound challanging and thats way I did took a look at it.


who ever I did offend, sorry and lets move foreward.

to those wonder where the names comes from and why he uses them

http://thriceholy.net/pagan.html#Hindu

The owner of the Yellow Hummer is a hindu.

But the snitch identified the wrong hindu

The work of the shiva (destoyer)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on January 30, 2008, 12:24:08 AM
I have seen several interpretations of the codetalkers posts.  I know what a simian, doppleganger, etc. are and don't particularly like the condesention implied as an answer to what I do consider to be a legitimate question.

I am no smarter than anyone else but no dumber, either.  I'd have to guess we are all about the same general level of intelligence.  Implying that one is superior in this regard is not advisable considering dealing with complete unknows on a posting forum.

We've all seen "I know but I'm just not going to tell you!" before.  Many times. 

I think I asked a perfectly legitimate question and didn't make fun of anything or anybody.  And I just don't really care enough to play games so will leave and refrain from posting in this thread as I did not understand no questions allowed, etc. 

Guess I don't understand the rules of the game here and not concerned enough to learn them.

Carry on. . . . . . I won't interrupt again.

.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 30, 2008, 12:30:30 AM

Now this

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:56 pm
The Simian knows his Lordship (Nelson Oduber) did not have a key (investors money) to open the door to (Ritz Carlton)
the answer lies with the Arawak Nation (The Dutch Government)
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:59 pm
The package (The report) is still due.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:01 pm
If the door to eden (Ritz Carloton) is to be opened with that key, (the report) it will be tomorrow or forever remained closed
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders (Prime Minster) for a long time


This is telling you a diffrent story. but same players

the way to know who is what in different section, goes back to a timeline and knowledge of the events that are happening in Aruba. I am not an historian to remember what was going on with the deal with the Ritz Carlton.. but there is also a dirtyhand at the game.

it is 32 pages long morph in two stories




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on January 30, 2008, 12:37:03 AM
Caps...I think what all the Monkeys are wanting to know is just in plain English what You decoded the riddles to say or mean...such as names and places and most of all what happened to Natalee....I understand from earlier in the day that this information was to be kept under wraps (secret) for now....and I don't think some of the Monkeys read all of the prior posts of the day......this has caused everyone not to understand each other.......Hopefully Everything will straighten itself out soon....LOL  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on January 30, 2008, 01:13:48 AM
Monkeys friend:

I started to look at the case of Natalee on Dec 22, 2007 and I wrote a research report that was send to the FBI to let  them take a look into my reseach. The research is not about who did, it is about by looking at all the possible scenarios that can match a single "AND LOGIC" connected question.

I send it to klaasend for review and that's how I got here. The results was a place that everyone overlooked.

Shango did his in a riddle and I did my in an "AND LOGIC" question that neededd to be satisfy one of the error they made when paul said he pict him up at 4:00 am then changed it to another time. You can not fool time. it is difficult to do somthing at 4:00 am and then swith back to 11:00 pm, This will create a time paradox and there was the missing link and also the sneaker which also created another time paradox. I even have it documented with google Earth.

the result is the same.

Me being here made me feel right. the feeling to solve this too long lingering problem.

Now that my report is the same All can read it and all can see what shango ment.

But I have to respect the elders from Natalee. They need to see it first.

and once again Sorry for the outbust.
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on January 30, 2008, 01:23:54 AM
CapsLock - I appreciate everything you are doing.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on January 30, 2008, 01:33:04 AM
Caps Thanks for all You have done and Please know that You are appreciated for all of Your hard work.....Sincerely PC  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on January 30, 2008, 01:34:56 AM
Good Night Monkeys!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 30, 2008, 05:42:45 AM
Just read something on the Ritz....about putting all one's eggs in one basket...even mentioned the turtles that migrate there....it was by someone who appears to have inserted himself into this very early on.....who would have thought....

Funny when I try to search this morning on the subject...it tells me 'can't access database'


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 30, 2008, 06:04:21 AM
Does the yellow hummer have anything to do with BB's DNA - or MIU - or 2K's uncle? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 30, 2008, 09:33:49 AM
Confused this morning...LOL....I don't think it was BB....Anyone going to tango today?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: ala_gunslinger on January 30, 2008, 10:32:36 AM
Monkeys friend:

I started to look at the case of Natalee on Dec 22, 2007 and I wrote a research report that was send to the FBI to let  them take a look into my reseach. The research is not about who did, it is about by looking at all the possible scenarios that can match a single "AND LOGIC" connected question.

I send it to klaasend for review and that's how I got here. The results was a place that everyone overlooked.

Shango did his in a riddle and I did my in an "AND LOGIC" question that neededd to be satisfy one of the error they made when paul said he pict him up at 4:00 am then changed it to another time. You can not fool time. it is difficult to do somthing at 4:00 am and then swith back to 11:00 pm, This will create a time paradox and there was the missing link and also the sneaker which also created another time paradox. I even have it documented with google Earth.

the result is the same.

Me being here made me feel right. the feeling to solve this too long lingering problem.

Now that my report is the same All can read it and all can see what shango ment.

But I have to respect the elders from Natalee. They need to see it first.

and once again Sorry for the outbust.
 

Caps, I recognize and understand your system.  You ARE doing the right thing.  Thank you for sharing what you can.  If I may be able to assist you, please let me know.

Thanks

Gunslinger


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Helen Back on January 30, 2008, 10:40:28 AM
Hey CapsLock,

I have been reading about your work through you front page posts, and also your work here on S&S.  I appreciate all your hard work, and the fact that we all here are seeking truth for the family. 

I appreciate the hard work and steadfast faith and support of all the Monkeys.  I feel strongly that this case will be aided to resolution through the amazing efforts and contributions here, and through all those who truly seek justice for Natalee Holloway.

Miracles happen through the open hearts of strangers.  ::MonkeyCool::



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Helen Back on January 30, 2008, 10:44:57 AM
Yes, CapsLock,

Meant to add that I do understand your system, and your need to handle things accordingly.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 30, 2008, 11:25:42 AM
Yes Caps....Thanks for your insight...


Lala's...I guess we can wipe GVC of that list for the 5th suspect...look what Joran says....if I could just work out which lie of his to believe I'd be home free...And who Amsterdam 'G' is....

P 256 …from Joran’s book translation

On Monday April 24th 2006, GVC is released. GVC had an alibi for the night that Natalee Holloway disappeared. Apparently GVC wasn’t the "G" from Amsterdam with whom Natalee was in love.


When I’m reading these summaries, I wish to heck that I could read and speak Dutch and then I could read it for myself…..but the few copies that were printed have probably gone by now.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on January 30, 2008, 01:47:06 PM
Yes Caps....Thanks for your insight...


Lala's...I guess we can wipe GVC of that list for the 5th suspect...look what Joran says....if I could just work out which lie of his to believe I'd be home free...And who Amsterdam 'G' is....

P 256 …from Joran’s book translation

On Monday April 24th 2006, GVC is released. GVC had an alibi for the night that Natalee Holloway disappeared. Apparently GVC wasn’t the "G" from Amsterdam with whom Natalee was in love.


When I’m reading these summaries, I wish to heck that I could read and speak Dutch and then I could read it for myself…..but the few copies that were printed have probably gone by now.


I am more confused by the alleged "explanation" of Shango's riddle ,than by the riddle it seems........but perfectly willing to listen and learn  ::MonkeyRoll::

So back to the "g" if not GVC, who? Guido ........van Gijn.......?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 30, 2008, 02:10:58 PM
Yes Caps....Thanks for your insight...


Lala's...I guess we can wipe GVC of that list for the 5th suspect...look what Joran says....if I could just work out which lie of his to believe I'd be home free...And who Amsterdam 'G' is....

P 256 …from Joran’s book translation

On Monday April 24th 2006, GVC is released. GVC had an alibi for the night that Natalee Holloway disappeared. Apparently GVC wasn’t the "G" from Amsterdam with whom Natalee was in love.


When I’m reading these summaries, I wish to heck that I could read and speak Dutch and then I could read it for myself…..but the few copies that were printed have probably gone by now.


I am more confused by the alleged "explanation" of Shango's riddle ,than by the riddle it seems........but perfectly willing to listen and learn  ::MonkeyRoll::

So back to the "g" if not GVC, who? Guido ........van Gijn.......?
I am not very good at the riddles, but do enjoy the research and trying to make the pieces of the puzzle fit.  Just too many pieces to this puzzle...

 Joran would have us believe that there is a blue-eyed dutch marine boy from Amsterdam whose name started with 'G', oh and that Natalee fell in love with.

'G'=van Gijn...Interesting. I hadn't considered that. I do believe there is a distinct difference between van Rijn and van Gijn and some one has led us down the garden path. Do you remember the picture that Klaas posted with a guy, maybe Paulus, a woman and maybe Lorenzo?  Nothing like the arrest pictures we saw from last year.

Would the real Lorenzo van Gijn please stand up....LOL



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on January 30, 2008, 02:24:49 PM
MumInOhio wrote;

Quote
'G'=van Gijn...Interesting. I hadn't considered that. I do believe there is a distinct difference between van Rijn and van Gijn and some one has led us down the garden path. Do you remember the picture that Klaas posted with a guy, maybe Paulus, a woman and maybe Lorenzo?  Nothing like the arrest pictures we saw from last year

Do you mean the "legs" picture?  Do you mean the picture which was discussed for so long about how many legs did one see in the photo? The pic you mention where the three are walking down a path or walkway or something with their faces gazing down at the ground sorta? I remember that pic........


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 30, 2008, 02:33:00 PM
MumInOhio wrote;

Quote
'G'=van Gijn...Interesting. I hadn't considered that. I do believe there is a distinct difference between van Rijn and van Gijn and some one has led us down the garden path. Do you remember the picture that Klaas posted with a guy, maybe Paulus, a woman and maybe Lorenzo?  Nothing like the arrest pictures we saw from last year

Do you mean the "legs" picture?  Do you mean the picture which was discussed for so long about how many legs did one see in the photo? The pic you mention where the three are walking down a path or walkway or something with their faces gazing down at the ground sorta? I remember that pic........

That's the one....I don't think that guy looked anything like the creep in the arrest pictures. That guy was cleancut looking the arrest guy looks like a sleezeball and definately not someone that Natalee would look twice at. Actually he'd probably have scared the heck out of her!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on January 30, 2008, 02:42:24 PM
MumInOhio wrote;

Quote
'G'=van Gijn...Interesting. I hadn't considered that. I do believe there is a distinct difference between van Rijn and van Gijn and some one has led us down the garden path. Do you remember the picture that Klaas posted with a guy, maybe Paulus, a woman and maybe Lorenzo?  Nothing like the arrest pictures we saw from last year

Do you mean the "legs" picture?  Do you mean the picture which was discussed for so long about how many legs did one see in the photo? The pic you mention where the three are walking down a path or walkway or something with their faces gazing down at the ground sorta? I remember that pic........

That's the one....I don't think that guy looked anything like the creep in the arrest pictures. That guy was cleancut looking the arrest guy looks like a sleezeball and definately not someone that Natalee would look twice at. Actually he'd probably have scared the heck out of her!

I don't think so either.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 30, 2008, 02:46:45 PM

So I wonder which one is the real Lorenzo van Gijn/Rijn?

Our friend Tito appears to be the main source of the confusion concerning Lorenzo/David/Guido Wever and also the second arrest in The Netherlands that apparently didn’t happen. Jossy says that it was not Guido that had the scratches, but the other ‘unidentified’ person.

Someone needs to ask Jossy about Lorenzo van Gijn/Rijn and about Freddy’s detainment of June 9th. Though he did say that Freddy was detained early and that he was told that it was not related.

Any detainment on June 9th has to be related IMO.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on January 30, 2008, 03:14:23 PM
Don't know if this is really Margaret Wever but since The News and UPI carried the same address thought I would bring this over from the FP.

margaret wever
on January 30th, 2008 10:00 am

My newspaper THE NEWS HAS NEVER KNOWINGLY PLACED AND WILL NEVER KNOWINGLY PLACE escort and prostitution ads!!! It has been our policy since the paper was established in 1951. We have occasionally even checked up ourselves on “suspicious ads.”
Plus, I know for a fact that also Mr. Jossy Mansur will not place these ads in his Aruba Daily, although they did let one slip in a few years ago, but soon discontinued it.
Since there are three free English newspapers on Aruba, and two do not place escort and prostitution ads, this article should have stated that one newspaper is the one doing this (Aruba Today)!!!
Thank you.
Prayers for Natalee, Beth and Matt!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on January 30, 2008, 03:28:16 PM
Don't know if this is really Margaret Wever but since The News and UPI carried the same address thought I would bring this over from the FP.

margaret wever
on January 30th, 2008 10:00 am

My newspaper THE NEWS HAS NEVER KNOWINGLY PLACED AND WILL NEVER KNOWINGLY PLACE escort and prostitution ads!!! It has been our policy since the paper was established in 1951. We have occasionally even checked up ourselves on “suspicious ads.”
Plus, I know for a fact that also Mr. Jossy Mansur will not place these ads in his Aruba Daily, although they did let one slip in a few years ago, but soon discontinued it.
Since there are three free English newspapers on Aruba, and two do not place escort and prostitution ads, this article should have stated that one newspaper is the one doing this (Aruba Today)!!!
Thank you.
Prayers for Natalee, Beth and Matt!



I seem to remember a few papers there running ads selling escort services, but can't say for sure which ones. Ms. Wever however is correct about ArubaToday, as there is no question in my mind what they are selling on page B14.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

http://www.arubatoday.com/index.php?option=com_flippingbook&book_id=3


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on January 30, 2008, 03:29:53 PM
Don't know if this is really Margaret Wever but since The News and UPI carried the same address thought I would bring this over from the FP.

margaret wever
on January 30th, 2008 10:00 am

My newspaper THE NEWS HAS NEVER KNOWINGLY PLACED AND WILL NEVER KNOWINGLY PLACE escort and prostitution ads!!! It has been our policy since the paper was established in 1951. We have occasionally even checked up ourselves on “suspicious ads.”
Plus, I know for a fact that also Mr. Jossy Mansur will not place these ads in his Aruba Daily, although they did let one slip in a few years ago, but soon discontinued it.
Since there are three free English newspapers on Aruba, and two do not place escort and prostitution ads, this article should have stated that one newspaper is the one doing this (Aruba Today)!!!
Thank you.
Prayers for Natalee, Beth and Matt!



I seem to remember a few papers there running ads selling escort services, but can't say for sure which ones. Ms. Wever however is correct about ArubaToday, as there is no question in my mind what they are selling on page B14.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

http://www.arubatoday.com/index.php?option=com_flippingbook&book_id=3

go to newspaper local and turn the pages. Sorry Klaas for the OT didn't realize i was in S+S thread


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: yapperz1 on January 30, 2008, 07:35:59 PM
GVC's nickname was "G" or "Gee". We saw it listed that way in some photos posted by a tourist who had met him at a bar.

The only "yellow hummer" I am familiar with was driven by Vadir van Loen or van Loon


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on January 30, 2008, 07:41:20 PM
GVC's nickname was "G" or "Gee". We saw it listed that way in some photos posted by a tourist who had met him at a bar.

The only "yellow hummer" I am familiar with was driven by Vadir van Loen or van Loon

I don't think Vadir drives a hummer, I think it's a jeep.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: yapperz1 on January 30, 2008, 09:09:29 PM
Probably is a jeep Klaas. All I know is it is YELLOW


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 30, 2008, 09:43:45 PM
GVC....'G'... but his Daddy is not a Judge or a lawyer...still could be DirtyHand....I wonder where they are?


Lawyers and Judges...van Loon....van Gijn...van der Sloot....Wever


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 30, 2008, 09:49:49 PM
GVC....'G'... but his Daddy is not a Judge or a lawyer...still could be DirtyHand....I wonder where they are?


Lawyers and Judges...van Loon....van Gijn...van der Sloot....Wever

Remember van Loon was the one mentioned in Beth's book.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on January 31, 2008, 12:22:04 AM
Vadir van Loon - yes he was mentioned in Beth's book.  She spoke to him.  He was questioned in the case early on.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/vadirvanloon2.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/vadirvehicle.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on January 31, 2008, 12:36:49 AM
Vadir van Loon - yes he was mentioned in Beth's book.  She spoke to him.  He was questioned in the case early on.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/vadirvanloon2.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/vadirvehicle.jpg)
Klaas is there another picture of this guy...He looks like a guy who was in one of the casino pictures the guy was staring up at the stage...like watching the dancing.....TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on January 31, 2008, 12:37:47 AM
Correction not casino but carlos and charlies sorry... ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on January 31, 2008, 01:06:09 AM
Vadir van Loon - yes he was mentioned in Beth's book.  She spoke to him.  He was questioned in the case early on.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/vadirvanloon2.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/vadirvehicle.jpg)

Loving Natalee page 84-85
snips
The tips are coming in steadily all day...One tip in particular keeps resurfacing---that Jeep...One caller says the driver is known as Theodore.  Another says his name is Vader.  A well-known drug runner on the island drives a bright yellow Jeep pulling a trailer with a small rubber boat on the back......In the little dinghy is an old oil barrrel.  This is the most difficult tip for me to listen to so far, as the callers are saying that the barrel in the boat on the back of this Jeep is where Natalee was put so she could be taken out to sea and dumped...

On the way to the print shop to have the new "KIDNAPPED" posters printed Beth spots the yellow Jeep with a small boat on a trailer and a barrel in the dinghy.  It's parked at a pizza restaurant.  The cab driver confirms that "It's Vader's Jeep."  He very bad.  Very bad.....Beth has the driver pull up to the Jeep and rolls down her window.

Loving Natalee Page 86
"Before I can speak, he sees me and offers, "I'm sorry about Natalee."
   That's weird, and his statement takes me aback.  I haven't even introduced myself.  So I ask him if he knows where she is and explain that there are reports that she has been seen in his vehicle.
   He replies, "What about the gray Honda?  I thought they were looking into that."  And before I can answer he volunteers, "The Coast Guard has already searched my boat."




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on January 31, 2008, 01:14:23 AM
Vadir van Loon - yes he was mentioned in Beth's book.  She spoke to him.  He was questioned in the case early on.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/vadirvanloon2.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/vadirvehicle.jpg)

Loving Natalee page 84-85
snips
The tips are coming in steadily all day...One tip in particular keeps resurfacing---that Jeep...One caller says the driver is known as Theodore.  Another says his name is Vader.  A well-known drug runner on the island drives a bright yellow Jeep pulling a trailer with a small rubber boat on the back......In the little dinghy is an old oil barrrel.  This is the most difficult tip for me to listen to so far, as the callers are saying that the barrel in the boat on the back of this Jeep is where Natalee was put so she could be taken out to sea and dumped...

On the way to the print shop to have the new "KIDNAPPED" posters printed Beth spots the yellow Jeep with a small boat on a trailer and a barrel in the dinghy.  It's parked at a pizza restaurant.  The cab driver confirms that "It's Vader's Jeep."  He very bad.  Very bad.....Beth has the driver pull up to the Jeep and rolls down her window.

Loving Natalee Page 86
"Before I can speak, he sees me and offers, "I'm sorry about Natalee."
   That's weird, and his statement takes me aback.  I haven't even introduced myself.  So I ask him if he knows where she is and explain that there are reports that she has been seen in his vehicle.
   He replies, "What about the gray Honda?  I thought they were looking into that."  And before I can answer he volunteers, "The Coast Guard has already searched my boat."



WOW!  ::MonkeyShocked:: ::MonkeyShocked:: ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on January 31, 2008, 01:28:14 AM
Vadir van Loon - yes he was mentioned in Beth's book.  She spoke to him.  He was questioned in the case early on.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/vadirvanloon2.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/vadirvehicle.jpg)

Loving Natalee page 84-85
snips
The tips are coming in steadily all day...One tip in particular keeps resurfacing---that Jeep...One caller says the driver is known as Theodore.  Another says his name is Vader.  A well-known drug runner on the island drives a bright yellow Jeep pulling a trailer with a small rubber boat on the back......In the little dinghy is an old oil barrrel.  This is the most difficult tip for me to listen to so far, as the callers are saying that the barrel in the boat on the back of this Jeep is where Natalee was put so she could be taken out to sea and dumped...

On the way to the print shop to have the new "KIDNAPPED" posters printed Beth spots the yellow Jeep with a small boat on a trailer and a barrel in the dinghy.  It's parked at a pizza restaurant.  The cab driver confirms that "It's Vader's Jeep."  He very bad.  Very bad.....Beth has the driver pull up to the Jeep and rolls down her window.

Loving Natalee Page 86
"Before I can speak, he sees me and offers, "I'm sorry about Natalee."
   That's weird, and his statement takes me aback.  I haven't even introduced myself.  So I ask him if he knows where she is and explain that there are reports that she has been seen in his vehicle.
   He replies, "What about the gray Honda?  I thought they were looking into that."  And before I can answer he volunteers, "The Coast Guard has already searched my boat."




Loving Natalee Pages 86-88
snips...
I feel he has something to hide.  He has information on where Natalee is.  I just know it.  I insist that he come to the Bubali police station and talk to the detective.  The cab driver also becomes angry and demands that Vader follow us there.  And, surprisingly, he does......Dennis Jacobs...asks the man his name.  "Vader" is his answer.  Jacobs looks at me and says the reports are that a man named Theodore is the one who has the Jeep we are looking for, not this guy......

The man who said his name was Vader admitted that his name was Theodore after Beth drug him into the police station for the second time.  Beth begs Jacobs to do something.  "I'll talk to him.".......  Later we were told that he is related to Joran Vandersloot.  They might be cousins.  But that's where it ends.  He isn't held or searched or interrogated.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 31, 2008, 07:17:12 AM
For COLUMBO (from the other thread)...who is MIA....LOL


Reply #295 on: Today at 02:49:16 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Silverfox on Today at 12:39:21 AMok...

In light that many of you are now becoming more focused on Paulus...

And for good reason...

On that fateful night Anita was is Holland with her two younger sons (according to the first versions we heard)...

Paulus is out playing with his son in the sinful game of "Help me pick up a cute chick cuz mommy is out of town"...Hence the Casino video of paulus sitting next to Natalee...Hence the K2 comment about "Your Own Father"...

I have said this many times since Natalee first disappeared -- Watch the movie "Eyes Wide Shut" -- keep in mind that it is a sub-plot in the movie that I am pointing to:


-A secret Sex club (rave party) where the influential and rich "get it on"
-Young girls being "recruited" for sexual purposes and exhibition
-The murder of one of the young women
-Cover-up of the murder by the rich and famous and influential
-Attempts to discredit important witnesses as well efforts to blame it on the girl

The smugness of Joran that "he didn't do it" (but in denial that he would be a direct accomplice even if he, himself, did not do it...

While not the same -- the movie strongly suggests to me that if you compare it to what we know and feel we might know about nat's case that indeed, there may be strong similarities.

I remember my good friend (for deputy sheriff) in texas who explained to me a couple of weeks after Nat disappeared that he felt Joran was recruiting (by date rape drugs) young tourist girls for his Dad.  All along my friend has felt that Paulus was the key.  Of course if you consider the depth of the cover-up and the levels of importance it makes you wonder if all these top, influential people on Aruba and surrounding islands just might have a "group" similar to the one in "Eyes Wide Shut" that they all know about and to allow one to fall would open an entire can of worms and they all would be exposed -- hence the statement of Paulus alluding to a lot of people would be hurt if the truth were to come out...Perhaps the "pimps" principle job all along was to drug and provide young girls for top government officials and their friends and collegues.

Think about it... certainly more and more folks are starting to smell something rotten that goes much deeper than J2K...


quote from hotping:
I believe You are very correct Silverfox....I also believe that the Club is still in operation....I'm thinking of the California lady who is now missing from another nearby island.....This goes way deeper than just Natalee's Case......Really Sad...I hope someone can put a stop to it......   
 
 




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 31, 2008, 07:23:51 AM
For Helenback...re the video reference of the other night. I had posted this previously in the main thread.

Also posted something recently about Anita's camera which was taken during the search of 8/15/2005. She complained that it had 'field trip' pics on it. And wondered why she hadn't been complaining about aal the pics that should have been on it from her trip to The Netherlands.

My apologies if you have already read this.....


January 09, 2008, 05:15:06 AM  Is this when Anita saw the underwear? This was June 8th and they were arrested 4 hours later...more coincidence.


From Deepak’s 6/10 PV
To your question as to when I last was in Joran's place the last time, I can state the following. I went to his place Wednesday June 8th, at approximately 22.45 hours, together with my brother Satish.

To your question as to what the purpose of this visit was, I can state the following. First of all because we had no power at our house, and secondly because Joran wanted to see the video of my brother's school trip.
To your question as to who was at the house, I can state the following. His parents were at the house and his little brother. To your question as to how late we stayed there, I can state the following. We stayed there until about 02.00 hours in the morning.


Is the little brother Val...why was he not questioned until just before the last arrests?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 31, 2008, 07:27:52 AM
Thanks for all the info on Vadir.....Tamiskosmom had posted a week or so about him and IIRC she said June 2nd. I had menat to go back and ask her about him and the page numbers from Beth's book.

Theodore/Vadir van Loon....LOL ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 31, 2008, 08:48:32 AM
Just moving things around...

From Capslockwizard:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:39 pm ******* NAT STORY ******
Every tribe has bad Indians (………..)
Every fort has bad cowboys (Bad FBI or DEA)
If sirens sing a poison song, all will get sick
Arawaks (Reporter) and cowboys (Bad FBI) working well
Arawaks (Reporter) fear wrath of cowboys (BETH) for DirtyHand
But babylonians (The Sloot’s) live in teepees (Police Force) too.
If the house of babylon (The Dutch Court) is to remain erect,
it must protect the babylonians (The Sloot’s) who have
lived in teepees (Police Force), among the arawaks, (Aruba Law Enforccement) for a long time.
Babylon (Sloot) will agree to a sacrifice of newer
teepee (New Police Force) dwellers (Home)to prevent the story of dirtyhand being made public
Dirtyhand scares arawaks (Aruba Law Enforccement) too
the sacrifice (Natalee) will be the correct sacrifice to appease the gods (…..) and cowboys (Bad FBI or DEA)
cowboys (Beth)will leave without loot (Natalee)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 31, 2008, 09:38:43 AM
Lala's...found a better one.....

Originally Posted by surrie
A man by the name of DINESH DJOEGAN aka MAIKEL JUDAN was a bouncer for a bar called Choose-A-Name.
Think about this, and maybe I doing a bit of stretching here but look below:

dineSH
djOeGAN

SHANGO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Bearlyhere on January 31, 2008, 09:43:36 AM
in light of some of CAP'S posts and loesge......was just thinking-what political leader held more concentrated power than any other during the 90's?

Monica Lewinsky......

But the Arawak king controls destiny of all. The Arawak king has DirtyHands and DirtyFeet. If he is to reign anew, he cannot be soiled more.
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Of whom is the young Babylonian afraid?
Why won’t he talk?


Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid Arawak King who wishes to blame the babylonians for the behaviour of lowly minions.

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:11 am
All the Arawaks know the Maze which plays the poison songs


Someone who has been in on this since he was young Arawak (he already got his hands dirty--money or financial part of the organization, and feet dirty--part of the delivery system of the organization).  We have to do what it takes to keep his name clear so no one knows the King is involved in this--IOW, publicly distance him from the actual day to day goings on.  If the king goes down, we all go down.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 31, 2008, 09:54:31 AM
I am assuming that this is the Ritz, our buddy again....interesting...Eden

Found an Anita Hugen signed the petition....hmmm

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?t=7041

Doing much better than I can, Bearlyhere.....I'm so confused...LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 31, 2008, 10:05:12 AM
Thanks for finding this for me Mum.  Shango readers...some light reading this morning. (Please keep in mind that some of the links and info may be unavailable now.)

..from webslueths


Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 4

Aruba Propaganda

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aruba has a website for all to see about how concerned they have been
about Natalee's dissapearance from day 1. Anyone who has read Dave
Holloway's book knows this is untrue. Anyone who has followed the case
knows this is untrue. Aruba government at this very moment is speaking
of how much money, time and effort they have spent on Natalee, like
they are doing the Holloways and the Twittys a favor, and the Arubans
are also saying that the locals are holding vigils and are very
concerned for our missing girl. More than they(Arubans) have ever done
for anyone ever come up missing on their island.

Go to the website www.arubatruth.com


It will enrage and sicken you. It did me.

It talks of how safe of the island is.HA!

I have also uncovered a bizzare and disturbing event that just took
place on the island recently.

A man by the name of DINESH DJOEGAN aka MAIKEL JUDAN was a bouncer for
a bar called Choose-A-Name. The press or someone tried to discredit his
reputation saying that he had a seedy past and may have some enemies
because of his profession. His body was found just recently ON FIRE in
the opening of a heart shaped cave on the island. His hands were nailed
to boards, his penis was sliced off and both of his legs were severed
off. Then his body was set on fire. The only way to identify Dinesh was
because of the TATTOOS he had on his body. Didn't hear to much about
that from Aruba. Smells of drug cartel to me.
Think about this, and maybe I doing a bit of stretching here but look
below:

dineSH
djOeGAN

SHANGO
I have tried to e-mail Aruba 's site along with several other people
and all my e-mails were returned due to an "error". Hey, anything's
possible-especially with this case.
If anyone has any thoughts post them. I have an idea of what happened
to Natalee. I have done extensive research online. I have read Dave's
online Evidentiary Review and the information that goes along with it-
not to mention Shango's riddle in conjuction with the entire case and
knowledge that is out there to look at. I am sure there is much more
that the public does not know, so not to compromise the case.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Bearlyhere on January 31, 2008, 10:08:44 AM
Vadir van Loon - yes he was mentioned in Beth's book.  She spoke to him.  He was questioned in the case early on.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/vadirvanloon2.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/vadirvehicle.jpg)

Do we know who this is in the white shirt, in the top picture, reflected in the vehicle?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 31, 2008, 10:12:12 AM
Actually MUM I would like to post one particular comment from that link...it is a very interesting post and some may not read it...



May 30, 2007
     
charlescroes
Aruba Expert
        
Join Date: February 21st, 2005
Posts: 691
charlescroes is on a distinguished road
Default Re: a petition for the Nature Organization Against Arashi Hotel
SHERRY, I posted the below a while ago and have had about 15 personal phone calls from locals on it. everyone is concerned and this is the time to unite the varios BB's in their poll taking and go to ownership and ask them to calculate how many persons sign into their or browse through their sites daily, weekly, monthly etc. You and beach boy are in the positions to do it as Aruba Vacationers and not locals with posible "agendas" If you feel that the below is not appropriate, please feel very free to erase it.
===================================
First of all,

Beach Boy - Allow me to thank you for your vigilance on these kinds of things and for keeping us aware of what is at stake.

I am going to get on my soap box and promise to take it away when I am done.

If a Garden Of Eden does exist - and I think it does - then I hope no-one finds it. It is in our nature to spread the word about all things good and (with the very best intentions) invite all that will listen to go to our respective wonder Gardens. It is also in our nature to invite people that are like us to these Gardens and (as sure as I write this) those invitees will inturn also invite others.

Is it possible that the huge allegiance that so many people have to this pebble in the Caribbean is causing its' own demise? Maybe it is and if that is the case, then is the logical solution for us to not love comming here but instead to hate vacationing on Aruba - year after loyal year? NAAHHH. Don't think so. And as long as loving this little Garden in the Caribbean exists, then more space will be needed for those that arrive all "wide-eyed" to see if what they were told is true - and if it is - to enjoy it and .... go home and tell others.

I have vacationed in other places that enjoyed immense popularity as well. How they react to this popularity seems to fall into categories - but mostly tied into geography and not development laws. Where and when there is plenty of space to grow sideways and spread out, they do - Miami and Orlando come to mind. Yet, where space (geography) does not allow for spreading out sideways, (and here Key West comes to mind) the construction stops and the quality of service as well as other client oriented issues is the focus. I used to go to Cherokee North Carolina to Trout fish in a place called "Big Cove. Lovely mountains, streams, fish and peacefullness. Then along came gambling and tax-free cigarettes and land was cleared (sideways) and significant portions of reservation land mountains have been flattened to accomodate what?? Cigarette sales? Casinos? Wrong - To accomodate newly found money. Large and wonderous sections of land have been ruined for the sake of - money. Think about it and ask if we (all of us) are any different.

The major challenge will not be environmental - nope - it will be humanity. The environment will do the suffering but the problem will be humanity. You see, for every one of the rooms that is constructed, there is a certain amount of humanity that his needed to take care of it. I used to know the ratio but no longer recall it. That said, every guest room needs to have XXX persons working in varios aspects of the resort to give the service expected. If service becomes the standard to measure with - and it should be - then the obvios, but not always correct assumption will be, we need more people NOW!! And if we follow that need then...

RESULT =
More rooms
More staffing needed
More residential units needed
More transportation needed
More infrastructure needed
More guests needed
More airlines to bring them needed
More taxis needed
More rental cars needed
More food
More consumption at all levels and I mean all.

Less what? Something gets sacrificed. What is it?
Less personal privacy for those living here
Less care given to the environment (what will be left of it)
Less history taught and kept because history is being made (that is not a play on words)

That is my take on all of this new construction on the beaches or elsewhere. That said, there are some responsible projects being built but these are mostly for long term housing.
I am not foolish enough to think that this is one of those situations where single voices or one or two politicos or conservation groups will be heard. NOPE! The single voice is lost in the wind and the politic is seen as self serving - unless there are politicos that serve the community and ... if there are, send them here when you have used them up. You see - dear reader and I presume Aruba fanatic - lover - and he who has a huge allegiance to our island, the voice that will be heard is that of the masses.

As an example and i hope this is not misunderstood:
Americans are tremendous when it comes to getting things done.
One child is lost (this is a horrid thing)
All networks are mobilized
Shows dedicated to the topic
Books written
and then
Aruba lovers come to the rescue and
Write supportive letters
Make their voices heard
The Aruba lovers support, support, support and then support some more. Afterall, this is their favorite island, or is it Eden?

So why - I ask myself - would this not be one of those occasions where the tourists, visitors and Aruba lover should and would not come to the rescue? - Why I wonder. You could you know.

Simply think about the following:

YOU OUT-NUMBER US (by many many millions) AND YOUR VOICE IS THUNDEROUS

Especially - when you are saving Eden.

While it is so very easy to find fault and danger, sometimes it is even easier to find the good and use it as an example. Here I speak of BUCUTI and the management phylosophies that motivate all that happens there. No high rises needed to give tremendous accomodations and impecable service. No "White Suited" bellman at the entrance to make sure that everyone and I mean EVERYONE says "Hello - how are you? More importantly, you can sit in the natural breeze - as opposed to that of a massive and monsterous airconditioned areas. Prices aren't cheap and the people love paying for what they get. No bare bones services but instead a dedication to pampering the guest. Maybe that is the way we should look at things.

OK OK OK --Can someone give me a hand with moving this soap-box? It's heavy.

be well
charles
Reply With Quote


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 31, 2008, 10:13:56 AM
Encouraging everyone to read that link Mum posted...there will be some you will recognize there.  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 31, 2008, 10:21:15 AM
Encouraging everyone to read that link Mum posted...there will be some you will recognize there.  ::MonkeyCool::


LOL ...still reading it myself...wish I could find that other post of his about the eggs in one basket....maybe it's here and I didn't get to it yet...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Bearlyhere on January 31, 2008, 10:28:34 AM
I am assuming that this is the Ritz, our buddy again....interesting...Eden

Found an Anita Hugen signed the petition....hmmm

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?t=7041

Doing much better than I can, Bearlyhere.....I'm so confused...LOL

Just thoughts I am having after reading.  I am also confused.  I admire those that have been trying to figure this out.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on January 31, 2008, 10:29:02 AM
Vadir van Loon - yes he was mentioned in Beth's book.  She spoke to him.  He was questioned in the case early on.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/vadirvanloon2.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/vadirvehicle.jpg)

Do we know who this is in the white shirt, in the top picture, reflected in the vehicle?


The geek guy took away my magnifier and I have to wait until tonight or tomorrow for my D to find it for me....sorry....computer illiterate here....LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 31, 2008, 10:44:32 AM
Since Julia took the photo ( with a camera that needed batteries, I might add) maybe it's a sign that says "How's my driving, Julia"?  OK.  I will behave, I promise. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 31, 2008, 10:54:40 AM
Let's talk a little Merian Ernest today...

Klaas
Would you mind posting this photo in here so we can look at it some more...I think Mum has been right about the 5th suspect for a while now. She has laid out her theory in a logical manner and I think Freddy almost fits the criteria to be the 5th suspect. TIA


Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject: Who framed who?
Take a close look at the famous picture.

Deepak, Joran and Satish at C&C. Whose hand is on Satish's shoulder? Take another look.
A really good look.

It can never be the hand of any of the three.

Merian Ernest Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:07 pm Post subject: The mysterious hand...
See the hand. On the infamous picture in C&C. The boy in the middle and the Hindus on each
side.

Whose hand is on the shoulder of the Hindu on he left? Somebody is missing on this picture.
Maybe somebody was placed on this picture?

It seems more people are vanishing in this case.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 31, 2008, 10:56:51 AM
Notice that Merian Ernst refers to the Kalpoes as "Hindu".  Where have we seen this before? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 31, 2008, 11:00:14 AM
Mum??? You still with me here?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on January 31, 2008, 11:02:45 AM
Merian Ernest Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:51 pm Post subject: They call him bifrons...
Find Aruba. Find the Haystack. Find Santa Marta. Trace with your finger what the Antenna
has spoken about.

Unleash the dogs. Inch by inch...grid by grid.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Helen Back on January 31, 2008, 11:07:57 AM
Breaking news on Holloway case.  Peter DeVries has new info out of Holland.   Chief prosecutor says it may resolve how Natalee Holloway died. 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: yapperz1 on January 31, 2008, 05:20:24 PM
Lalas here are both pics:

(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l286/yapperz1/satishjorandeepak.jpg)


(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l286/yapperz1/satshjorandeepakfreddy.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on January 31, 2008, 07:05:10 PM
Just moving things around...

From Capslockwizard:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:39 pm ******* NAT STORY ******
Every tribe has bad Indians (………..)
Every fort has bad cowboys (Bad FBI or DEA)
If sirens sing a poison song, all will get sick
Arawaks (Reporter) and cowboys (Bad FBI) working well
Arawaks (Reporter) fear wrath of cowboys (BETH) for DirtyHand
But babylonians (The Sloot’s) live in teepees (Police Force) too.
If the house of babylon (The Dutch Court) is to remain erect,
it must protect the babylonians (The Sloot’s) who have
lived in teepees (Police Force), among the arawaks, (Aruba Law Enforccement) for a long time.
Babylon (Sloot) will agree to a sacrifice of newer
teepee (New Police Force) dwellers (Home)to prevent the story of dirtyhand being made public
Dirtyhand scares arawaks (Aruba Law Enforccement) too
the sacrifice (Natalee) will be the correct sacrifice to appease the gods (…..) and cowboys (Bad FBI or DEA)
cowboys (Beth)will leave without loot (Natalee)


Thanks for bringing this over, Lalas.
Is this all there is?
Some name or identity changes but still comes back to what everyone has believed since almost day one.
I am hoping there is more to come with details which will solve the puzzle.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on January 31, 2008, 10:45:41 PM
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The boy told the Hindus that he didn’t need their help anymore.
This was in the small hours. The confrontation was brutal.
So who heeded his call? Who switched places?
People…the bloodied, swollen tongue. The boy’s fear runs deep.
They accuse him to be Bifrons. (Bifrons = demon /monster)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 01, 2008, 07:48:55 AM
There is something about that big picture...not sure what. Freddy and Satish...the guy in the background...the other hand...who took the pic....will keep looking at it.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 01, 2008, 08:09:17 AM
Do we know when that was taken? Or where it came from? Is this from a tickle site?

When did we first hear about Freddy? Was this the first pic. posted of him?

Did Freddy get his hair cut after that weekend?

Freddy...#1 Pimp!

Back to the PVs....LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Nut44x4 on February 01, 2008, 08:30:13 AM
I just popped over here to see if I can find the posts I made re: that Dec. b-day...will try and do a search for it, but our 'search' page sucks, lol.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 01, 2008, 08:41:33 AM
I just popped over here to see if I can find the posts I made re: that Dec. b-day...will try and do a search for it, but our 'search' page sucks, lol.



LOL...tell me about it...might be easier to search Leslie's....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 01, 2008, 10:49:12 AM
loesge may be right.......

I can't decipher code, but I do have this:

1.   loesge Says:
April 22nd, 2006 at 5:41 am
Gunslinger Says:
April 21st, 2006 at 7:06 pm
they filmed her de-flowering.
who was the actor?
——————————————-
ODUBER

2.   loesge Says:
April 22nd, 2006 at 5:51 am
Gunslinger Says:
April 21st, 2006 at 7:34 pm
The video was filmed live and
on location at the neighborhood
Holiday Inn.
““““““““““““““““
no,
it was the Wyndham


3.   loesge Says:
April 22nd, 2006 at 6:00 am
connect the dots to Bob Smith, manager of the Wyndham who also is head of the “black-clad” visability team. It was those black-clad “guards” who intercepted Natalee from Joran, NOT the two guards who were arrested. Joran delivered Natalee to a “House his father was known to be at”= Casablanca= “white house”.
The visability guards handed her over to Paulus and he, ultimately to Oduber.
The Lions prefer nice accomodations for their deflowerings. Presidential suite, anyone?
It’s an ongoing racket.



I meant to reply to this and Klaas yesterday, but forgot...I remember that I found some post from Reihl world and they didn't say much but the poster had spelt the name loesje
I am not sure if that is who Klaas was referring to or not.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Nut44x4 on February 01, 2008, 11:26:15 AM
Hi Mum....I figured what you asked me about this morning re: Dec. birthday happened around Dec. 5th...I am looking for it now.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 01, 2008, 11:41:25 AM
Hi Mum....I figured what you asked me about this morning re: Dec. birthday happened around Dec. 5th...I am looking for it now.


Hi Nut...not important....takes too long and I don't think we ever did find out who it was.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Nut44x4 on February 01, 2008, 11:44:38 AM
omg I am sorry....I can't even find any of the conversation re: the Dec. birthday person!!   :gaah:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Nut44x4 on February 01, 2008, 11:46:51 AM
Yes...I think you are correct. All we did was rule out who it wasn't.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 01, 2008, 01:21:10 PM
Don't you just love it when you find something that makes you think that maybe this is the correct path after all....still mispelt...maybe...but with a 'G' NOT an R

 
1
 Natalee Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE) / Natalee Breaking News Archive / RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS # 10
on: June 18, 2005, 08:17:19 PM
 Message by americaninaruba
Quote from: "DJTAYLOR"
Quote from: "Ting"
If I understand correctly, Lorenzo is said to be the son of Paulus van der Sloot by a woman not his wife. Does anyone know if this relationship is acknowledged? And has Mr. van der Sloot been involved in the life of this son? Who is the mother, and does she live in Aruba?

BUT i thought they said his dad killed himself or somthing, my god ahahahahah what a confusion huh?   :0)


Lorenzos father (Van Geijn) committed suicicede like 3 or 4 eyars ago the "rumor" that hes VDSLoots soon is just that...A RRUMOR



 Natalee Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE) / Natalee Breaking News Archive / RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS # 6
on: June 17, 2005, 07:42:03 AM
Message by americaninaruba

Quote from: "Professor"
To American in Aruba: Are you sure about that identity? Fox News says he has the initials SGC and is the son of a prominent member of the judiciary. How can that be, if his father committed suicide?


OK im sosorry for mixign this up...its just i have liek 30 people on my back at the same time and im at work answerign the phone! LOl
ok the Boy taht hsi father commited suicide (Lorenzo is his name) he was arrrested YESTERDAY...the one of TODAY (SGC) i have not been confirmed a name yet...but i dont know who his parents are



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 01, 2008, 02:35:01 PM
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The boy told the Hindus that he didn’t need their help anymore.
This was in the small hours. The confrontation was brutal.
So who heeded his call? Who switched places?
People…the bloodied, swollen tongue. The boy’s fear runs deep.
They accuse him to be Bifrons. (Bifrons = demon /monster)

How did Simian know that the Kalpoes were not involved?  What told him this was true?  Seems it may be true now, but what or who came to help?  I still don't buy Joran watching a girl die of an overdose and not getting some help with the body.  A dead body is heavy...no matter the size.  He needed help...to get home...to get rid of the body.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 01, 2008, 02:40:03 PM
Hi Lala's...need help....please

aia called him "Van Geijn"


Lots of money around that one too. Did aia know what she was talking about?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 01, 2008, 02:45:39 PM
Hi Lala's...need help....please

aia called him "Van Geijn"


Lots of money around that one too. Did aia know what she was talking about?


Best clarify...the 'aia called him 'Van Geijn'' came from an old RBN thread. Posters were discussing Rijn/Gijn/Geijn for Lorenzo early on.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: yapperz1 on February 01, 2008, 07:24:44 PM
<snip>
2.   loesge Says:
April 22nd, 2006 at 5:51 am
Gunslinger Says:
April 21st, 2006 at 7:34 pm
The video was filmed live and
on location at the neighborhood
Holiday Inn.
““““““““““““““““
no,
it was the Wyndham

3.   loesge Says:
April 22nd, 2006 at 6:00 am
connect the dots to Bob Smith, manager of the Wyndham who also is head of the “black-clad” visability team. It was those black-clad “guards” who intercepted Natalee from Joran, NOT the two guards who were arrested. Joran delivered Natalee to a “House his father was known to be at”= Casablanca= “white house”.
The visability guards handed her over to Paulus and he, ultimately to Oduber.
The Lions prefer nice accomodations for their deflowerings. Presidential suite, anyone?
It’s an ongoing racket.


I have always felt Natalee was taken to "the dirty old mens club" member(s). However I do not think the so called "white house" was the Casablanca. Could it have been a secretive meeting spot for the DOMC? One where they could slip in unseen?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 01, 2008, 07:42:54 PM
Hi Lala's...need help....please

aia called him "Van Geijn"


Lots of money around that one too. Did aia know what she was talking about?

AmericaninAruba...I would think so.  Seemed to give very reliable info.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 01, 2008, 07:45:08 PM
<snip>
2.   loesge Says:
April 22nd, 2006 at 5:51 am
Gunslinger Says:
April 21st, 2006 at 7:34 pm
The video was filmed live and
on location at the neighborhood
Holiday Inn.
““““““““““““““““
no,
it was the Wyndham

3.   loesge Says:
April 22nd, 2006 at 6:00 am
connect the dots to Bob Smith, manager of the Wyndham who also is head of the “black-clad” visability team. It was those black-clad “guards” who intercepted Natalee from Joran, NOT the two guards who were arrested. Joran delivered Natalee to a “House his father was known to be at”= Casablanca= “white house”.
The visability guards handed her over to Paulus and he, ultimately to Oduber.
The Lions prefer nice accomodations for their deflowerings. Presidential suite, anyone?
It’s an ongoing racket.


I have always felt Natalee was taken to "the dirty old mens club" member(s). However I do not think the so called "white house" was the Casablanca. Could it have been a secretive meeting spot for the DOMC? One where they could slip in unseen?


You must be reading my mind.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 01, 2008, 07:47:59 PM
<snip>
2.   loesge Says:
April 22nd, 2006 at 5:51 am
Gunslinger Says:
April 21st, 2006 at 7:34 pm
The video was filmed live and
on location at the neighborhood
Holiday Inn.
““““““““““““““““
no,
it was the Wyndham

3.   loesge Says:
April 22nd, 2006 at 6:00 am
connect the dots to Bob Smith, manager of the Wyndham who also is head of the “black-clad” visability team. It was those black-clad “guards” who intercepted Natalee from Joran, NOT the two guards who were arrested. Joran delivered Natalee to a “House his father was known to be at”= Casablanca= “white house”.
The visability guards handed her over to Paulus and he, ultimately to Oduber.
The Lions prefer nice accomodations for their deflowerings. Presidential suite, anyone?
It’s an ongoing racket.


I have always felt Natalee was taken to "the dirty old mens club" member(s). However I do not think the so called "white house" was the Casablanca. Could it have been a secretive meeting spot for the DOMC? One where they could slip in unseen?



while of gold bricks, the road is not paved (unless you win)

the house with the path (to the maze), but not of gold


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 01, 2008, 07:51:01 PM
Yapp
Have you ever checked to see if there is such a place in Aruba by that name?  You are so good at researching...would you mind? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: yapperz1 on February 01, 2008, 09:16:27 PM
Sure I will be glad to look lalas. Let ya know if I find anything.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: yapperz1 on February 01, 2008, 09:44:19 PM
Lalas the only thing that can be found so far is this:

http://tinyurl.com/2naage

go down to (CP-011) {I can't snag the pic}

Found this on chamber of commerce registry:

MOKO APARTMENTS N.V. 
 
Business address MOKO 30-A, NOORD 
Legal form  LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY 
Name of the company  MOKO APARTMENTS N.V. 
Statutory seat  ARUBA 
Date of incorporation  9 AUGUST 1993 
     
Authorized capital  ARUBAN FLORINS 50,000.00 
Issued capital  ARUBAN FLORINS 10,000.00 
Paid up capital  ARUBAN FLORINS 10,000.00 
Fiscal year  01 JANUARY thru 31 DECEMBER 
   
DIRECTORS - AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND CORPORATE BODIES - SUPERVISORY BOARD: 
 
DIJKHOFF, THOMAS; 
Residing in  TANKI LEENDERT 94-B, NOORD, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 8 JANUARY 1946 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  MANAGING DIRECTOR 
Effective  9 AUGUST 1993 
Authority  FULL 
   
DIJKHOFF-BOEKHOUDT, LUCIA; 
Residing in  TANKI LEENDERT 94-B, NOORD, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 25 JUNE 1949 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  MANAGING DIRECTOR 
Effective  9 AUGUST 1993 
Authority  FULL 


ALSO Notice "The Star" on top of the motel. Wasn't it Merian Ernest who said something about a star?
Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:47 am Post subject: Just head for that big star
straight on.
See how the dead-ends meet? Like the Simian said. There is little to fear as the
Babylonians are swinging the scepter still.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on February 01, 2008, 09:47:47 PM
Nut and all...Leslie's post, December bday:

Random musings:
Judge Kuiperdal died in 2006/2007.  He was from Curacao.  We have his obit in the archives.
Pauw en Witteman TV show from Holland with PVDS on the phone and Peter deVries in the studio:  In Dutch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5RAr8nUbu8
AZLady:  I was wondering the same thing about the blurring of the casino video when PVDS pulls something off the table.  Seems odd that the only person blurred was Paul at the moment he performed his sleight of hand.  By the way, who is that blonde female standing to the left of Joran?  If I was playing poker I would not appreciate a stranger watching my cards.   I might be paranoid enough to think she was communicating with the dealer.  Call me crazy!
Still cannot figure out who the tennis playing, male born in Aruba in December, who had a new job as a clerk is.  I don't see that anyone was making a statement to police on September 22 or 29, 2005.  I am watching the Diario birthday greeting section for familiar names as this is the month of December.  I did notice that Chris Hodge - the poster known as Peeps - and the owner of the www.yadoneknow.com
website has a birthday today.  He was the person who gave up the picture of Lorenzo's "earthquake" van, even though he told us later on, that he really doesn't know Lorenzo and that picture of the skinhead man at Peeps birthday party, years ago,  certainly wasn't Lorenzo  Rolling Eyes  ( I think thou doth protest too much. )
http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/12/10/
I am honoured to know that Paul Reynolds reads here.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2432.msg316359#msg316359



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on February 01, 2008, 09:49:43 PM
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #701 12/5/2007
« Reply #277 on: December 06, 2007, 09:16:22 AM »
   
Isn't this important information that there is a PV stating that a person who was born in Aruba with a birthday in December, said that NH offered him/her a sniff of cocaine?
That rules out Joran, Deepak, Satish, Freddy, Paul, Jaime, etc.   I am trying to find Val's birthday.  Anybody know?

International Friends of Aruba:
http://www.ifaruba.com/newsletter.html


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2424.msg313546#msg313546


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 01, 2008, 10:41:43 PM
Lalas the only thing that can be found so far is this:

http://tinyurl.com/2naage

go down to (CP-011) {I can't snag the pic}

Found this on chamber of commerce registry:

MOKO APARTMENTS N.V. 
 
Business address MOKO 30-A, NOORD 
Legal form  LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY 
Name of the company  MOKO APARTMENTS N.V. 
Statutory seat  ARUBA 
Date of incorporation  9 AUGUST 1993 
     
Authorized capital  ARUBAN FLORINS 50,000.00 
Issued capital  ARUBAN FLORINS 10,000.00 
Paid up capital  ARUBAN FLORINS 10,000.00 
Fiscal year  01 JANUARY thru 31 DECEMBER 
   
DIRECTORS - AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND CORPORATE BODIES - SUPERVISORY BOARD: 
 
DIJKHOFF, THOMAS; 
Residing in  TANKI LEENDERT 94-B, NOORD, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 8 JANUARY 1946 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  MANAGING DIRECTOR 
Effective  9 AUGUST 1993 
Authority  FULL 
   
DIJKHOFF-BOEKHOUDT, LUCIA; 
Residing in  TANKI LEENDERT 94-B, NOORD, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 25 JUNE 1949 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  MANAGING DIRECTOR 
Effective  9 AUGUST 1993 
Authority  FULL 


ALSO Notice "The Star" on top of the motel. Wasn't it Merian Ernest who said something about a star?
Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:47 am Post subject: Just head for that big star
straight on.
See how the dead-ends meet? Like the Simian said. There is little to fear as the
Babylonians are swinging the scepter still.

LALA what about the owner of this appartment complex locate at

Montana Park Apartments These are of the dutch owners.

Find the names etc.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 01, 2008, 10:52:13 PM

LaLa : Klaasend:

HEre is the pool and the site of where they have gone last

http://www.aruba-mpa.com/



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: yapperz1 on February 01, 2008, 10:52:45 PM
Is this it Caps?

MONTANA APARTMENT 
 
Business address MONTANA 6-D, ORANJESTAD OOST 
Legal form  SOLE OWNERSHIP 
Name of the company  MONTANA APARTMENT 
Date of commencement  1 JANUARY 1980 
     
   
OWNERS/PARTNERS 
 
LEEST, DOMINICO; 
Residing in  MONTANJA 32, NOORD, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 27 JULY 1932 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  OWNER 
Effective  16 FEBRUARY 1982 
Authority  FULL 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 01, 2008, 10:57:05 PM
This site has a pool, the other don't

This site is dutch and the other is aruban.

They all sit around and lite the fire. (smoke the sigars)

http://www.aruba-mpa.com/

check it out


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 01, 2008, 11:04:26 PM
This site has a pool, the other don't

This site is dutch and the other is aruban.

They all sit around and lite the fire. (smoke the sigars)

http://www.aruba-mpa.com/

check it out


Did you just say light the fires?   That makes sense.  ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 01, 2008, 11:06:52 PM
Is this it Caps?

MONTANA APARTMENT 
 
Business address MONTANA 6-D, ORANJESTAD OOST 
Legal form  SOLE OWNERSHIP 
Name of the company  MONTANA APARTMENT 
Date of commencement  1 JANUARY 1980 
     
   
OWNERS/PARTNERS 
 
LEEST, DOMINICO; 
Residing in  MONTANJA 32, NOORD, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 27 JULY 1932 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  OWNER 
Effective  16 FEBRUARY 1982 
Authority  FULL 


Those apartments don't look white to me...I am confused again...they do however look like they are painted gold. Is that road paved?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: yapperz1 on February 01, 2008, 11:07:12 PM
Caps:

VERENIGING VAN EIGENAREN MONTANA APPARTEMENTEN  
  
Business address MONTANJA 51, NOORD  
Legal form  ASSOCIATION  
Name of the VERENIGING VAN EIGENAREN MONTANA APPARTEMENTEN  
company/foundation/association:
Statutory seat  ARUBA  
Date of 21 JULY 1995  
incorporation/commencement:
      
NOT IN POSSESION OF A BUSINESS ESTABLISHMENT LICENCE  
  
BOARD MEMBERS/AUTHORIZED PERSONS  
  
VAN DIJK, JOHANNES;  
Residing in  NOORDERPLASSENWEG 38, 1316 US ALMERE, THE NETHERLANDS  
Born in  THE NETHERLANDS, HAARLEM on 12 JANUARY 1962  
Nationality  DUTCH  
Position  
Effective  6 JUNE 2006  
Authority  RESTRICTED  
  
VAN DER LUYT, ALBERTUS;  
Residing in  CATHARINADAL 9, 5235 BJ DEN BOSCH, THE NETHERLANDS  
Born in  THE NETHERLANDS, NOORDWIJK on 28 OCTOBER 1959  
Nationality  DUTCH  
Position  TREASURER  
Effective  1 NOVEMBER 2006  
Authority  RESTRICTED  
  
BARNAS, PETRONELLA GEERTRUIDA;  
Residing in  VAN HALEWIJNBAAN 329, 2274 TK VOORBURG, THE NETHERLANDS  
Born in  THE NETHERLANDS, VOORBURG on 7 APRIL 1970  
Nationality  DUTCH  
Position  SECRETARY  
Effective  1 NOVEMBER 2006  
Authority  RESTRICTED  
  



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 01, 2008, 11:08:35 PM

LaLa : Klaasend:

HEre is the pool and the site of where they have gone last

http://www.aruba-mpa.com/



Is that near the Sloots house? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 01, 2008, 11:26:49 PM
Yes

lala

the one with the gold paint and the road is paved

The question is in which room?


In my report I choose the White one but my road is not paved

The Montana Park Apartment is where all started..The Sex etc....

so look for the owners

In their website there is a Holland phone: I wonder who will answer..

Pauls brother or Anitas Mother...

LOL



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 01, 2008, 11:32:57 PM
Caps:

VERENIGING VAN EIGENAREN MONTANA APPARTEMENTEN  
  
Business address MONTANJA 51, NOORD  
Legal form  ASSOCIATION  
Name of the VERENIGING VAN EIGENAREN MONTANA APPARTEMENTEN  
company/foundation/association:
Statutory seat  ARUBA  
Date of 21 JULY 1995  
incorporation/commencement:
      
NOT IN POSSESION OF A BUSINESS ESTABLISHMENT LICENCE  
  
BOARD MEMBERS/AUTHORIZED PERSONS  
  
VAN DIJK, JOHANNES;  
Residing in  NOORDERPLASSENWEG 38, 1316 US ALMERE, THE NETHERLANDS  
Born in  THE NETHERLANDS, HAARLEM on 12 JANUARY 1962  
Nationality  DUTCH  
Position  
Effective  6 JUNE 2006  
Authority  RESTRICTED  
  
VAN DER LUYT, ALBERTUS;  
Residing in  CATHARINADAL 9, 5235 BJ DEN BOSCH, THE NETHERLANDS  
Born in  THE NETHERLANDS, NOORDWIJK on 28 OCTOBER 1959  
Nationality  DUTCH  
Position  TREASURER  
Effective  1 NOVEMBER 2006  
Authority  RESTRICTED  
  
BARNAS, PETRONELLA GEERTRUIDA;  
Residing in  VAN HALEWIJNBAAN 329, 2274 TK VOORBURG, THE NETHERLANDS  
Born in  THE NETHERLANDS, VOORBURG on 7 APRIL 1970  
Nationality  DUTCH  
Position  SECRETARY  
Effective  1 NOVEMBER 2006  
Authority  RESTRICTED  
  


YES YES  ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 01, 2008, 11:35:57 PM
Both of the Apartments have been use to do this....

One was for the party and planning the other was for the seeking pleasure of the forbidden fruits
 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 01, 2008, 11:39:24 PM
I have been reading this so much that I almost knows the meanings out of my head..

Strange this Shango....



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 01, 2008, 11:49:54 PM
You will get used to it...I have.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 01, 2008, 11:52:36 PM
Yes

lala

the one with the gold paint and the road is paved

The question is in which room?


In my report I choose the White one but my road is not paved

The Montana Park Apartment is where all started..The Sex etc....

so look for the owners

In their website there is a Holland phone: I wonder who will answer..

Pauls brother or Anitas Mother...

LOL




Are you saying one of these relatives owns this apartment complex...that could possibly be the legendary lions den? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 01, 2008, 11:54:09 PM
LaLa when this is all over we can teach it in high shool as a new language....

Back to work....



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 01, 2008, 11:57:07 PM
Where is every body....The Wizard is in the halls and no guest



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on February 02, 2008, 12:57:08 AM
(http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/3420/mokowhitehousefh8.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 02, 2008, 07:58:51 AM
My ...we have been busy Monkeys


Buckeye.....Thanks....the second one was what I recalled, but will go back and read both.

Caps, Lala's, Yapp....more names...is the picture becoming any clearer.....WHO ANSWERED THE DARN PHONE?



Thanks....Kermit....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 02, 2008, 08:23:22 AM
This site has a pool, the other don't

This site is dutch and the other is aruban.

They all sit around and lite the fire. (smoke the sigars)

http://www.aruba-mpa.com/

check it out


Sorry, the reservation system could not locate the property you requested.

Click Here to search for an available property for locations around the world



Lots of things going poof of the web lately.....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 02, 2008, 08:31:07 AM
OOPS...first search of van Dijn took me to a photo gallery of sorts....BBL...I think I need a shower.....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Nut44x4 on February 02, 2008, 10:40:52 AM
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #701 12/5/2007
« Reply #277 on: December 06, 2007, 09:16:22 AM »
   
Isn't this important information that there is a PV stating that a person who was born in Aruba with a birthday in December, said that NH offered him/her a sniff of cocaine?
That rules out Joran, Deepak, Satish, Freddy, Paul, Jaime, etc.   I am trying to find Val's birthday.  Anybody know?

International Friends of Aruba:
http://www.ifaruba.com/newsletter.html


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2424.msg313546#msg313546


Val's Birthday is December 13th......but Val was not born in Aruba.....was he?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 02, 2008, 11:51:39 AM
OOPS...first search of van Dijn took me to a photo gallery of sorts....BBL...I think I need a shower.....


van Dijn?  van Gijn?  van Rijn?  Anyone see this connection?  Am I going blind?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 02, 2008, 11:53:44 AM
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #701 12/5/2007
« Reply #277 on: December 06, 2007, 09:16:22 AM »
   
Isn't this important information that there is a PV stating that a person who was born in Aruba with a birthday in December, said that NH offered him/her a sniff of cocaine?
That rules out Joran, Deepak, Satish, Freddy, Paul, Jaime, etc.   I am trying to find Val's birthday.  Anybody know?

International Friends of Aruba:
http://www.ifaruba.com/newsletter.html


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2424.msg313546#msg313546


Val's Birthday is December 13th......but Val was not born in Aruba.....was he?

So easy if it's a brother isn't it?  She got the coke from me...it wasn't anyone but Nat's fault...we didn't do anything to the girl...shhhh


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Helen Back on February 02, 2008, 11:53:54 AM
OOPS...first search of van Dijn took me to a photo gallery of sorts....BBL...I think I need a shower.....


van Dijn?  van Gijn?  van Rijn?  Anyone see this connection?  Am I going blind?

I'm with you , Lala's.  I'm no help, but I'm with you.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 02, 2008, 11:57:37 AM
OOPS...first search of van Dijn took me to a photo gallery of sorts....BBL...I think I need a shower.....


van Dijn?  van Gijn?  van Rijn?  Anyone see this connection?  Am I going blind?

You forgot the one aia mentioned...LOL

Doing a quick check on the Sloots family tree, but I'm not very good at following the branches, but know someone that is....should be interesting!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Helen Back on February 02, 2008, 11:59:35 AM
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #701 12/5/2007
« Reply #277 on: December 06, 2007, 09:16:22 AM »
   
Isn't this important information that there is a PV stating that a person who was born in Aruba with a birthday in December, said that NH offered him/her a sniff of cocaine?
That rules out Joran, Deepak, Satish, Freddy, Paul, Jaime, etc.   I am trying to find Val's birthday.  Anybody know?

International Friends of Aruba:
http://www.ifaruba.com/newsletter.html


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2424.msg313546#msg313546


Val's Birthday is December 13th......but Val was not born in Aruba.....was he?

So easy if it's a brother isn't it?  She got the coke from me...it wasn't anyone but Nat's fault...we didn't do anything to the girl...shhhh

Brilliant find on the birthday. 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 02, 2008, 12:11:11 PM
OOPS...first search of van Dijn took me to a photo gallery of sorts....BBL...I think I need a shower.....


van Dijn?  van Gijn?  van Rijn?  Anyone see this connection?  Am I going blind?

You forgot the one aia mentioned...LOL

Doing a quick check on the Sloots family tree, but I'm not very good at following the branches, but know someone that is....should be interesting!

I did indeed.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on February 02, 2008, 05:11:54 PM

Ckeck Mbox


who is the brother of joran, the one that born in aruba

just Pauls and anita little fam tree

Paulus
Anita
Joran - born in the NL
Valentijn - born in Aruba (I think)
Sabastian - born in Aruba

Valentijn is about 2 years younger than Joran and Sebastian is about 2 or 3 years younger than Valentijn.

This is Valentijn.  The photo was taken at Carlos n Charlies on April 7. 2007.  I believe that Joran Valentijn just graduated high school this year.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ValCnC040707-1-2.jpg)

Klaas and Caps, I found this in the archives, it says 2 of the 3 were born in NL

2  Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #706 12/20 - on: December 21, 2007, 07:41:34 PM 

snip
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/paul_van_der_sl_1.html

Paul Van der Sloot Background

Tilburg
Van der Sloot (53) got his legal education at the University of Tilburg in the seventies. He co-founded the Legal Faculty Association Tilburg and also the faculty newspaper ‘Nondejure'. After he finished his studies he did not went to work for the government, but assisted citizens that had conflicts with the government.  It was in that period in Arnhem, where he met a woman Anita (teacher of Artistic Formation) and it was also there were Joran and Valentijn, two of his three suns, were born.
New job
In 1991 Paul van der Sloot thought it was the time for a new job and he found one in Aruba where he was appointed for five year as a lawyer for the Aruban government.

Monday, June 27, 2005 at 11:23 AM
 

Lala's bringing these forward it says that Val was born in Aruba... ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on February 02, 2008, 05:30:49 PM

Ckeck Mbox


who is the brother of joran, the one that born in aruba

just Pauls and anita little fam tree

Paulus
Anita
Joran - born in the NL
Valentijn - born in Aruba (I think)
Sabastian - born in Aruba

Valentijn is about 2 years younger than Joran and Sebastian is about 2 or 3 years younger than Valentijn.

This is Valentijn.  The photo was taken at Carlos n Charlies on April 7. 2007.  I believe that Joran Valentijn just graduated high school this year.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ValCnC040707-1-2.jpg)

Klaas and Caps, I found this in the archives, it says 2 of the 3 were born in NL

2  Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #706 12/20 - on: December 21, 2007, 07:41:34 PM 

snip
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/paul_van_der_sl_1.html

Paul Van der Sloot Background

Tilburg
Van der Sloot (53) got his legal education at the University of Tilburg in the seventies. He co-founded the Legal Faculty Association Tilburg and also the faculty newspaper ‘Nondejure'. After he finished his studies he did not went to work for the government, but assisted citizens that had conflicts with the government.  It was in that period in Arnhem, where he met a woman Anita (teacher of Artistic Formation) and it was also there were Joran and Valentijn, two of his three suns, were born.
New job
In 1991 Paul van der Sloot thought it was the time for a new job and he found one in Aruba where he was appointed for five year as a lawyer for the Aruban government.

Monday, June 27, 2005 at 11:23 AM
 

Lala's bringing these forward it says that Val was born in Aruba... ::MonkeyWink::

It says Joran and Val were orn in Arnhem which is in NL.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on February 02, 2008, 05:53:51 PM
OOps My Mistake!  ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyWaa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 02, 2008, 06:38:23 PM
So Val is out...who's next in line?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 03, 2008, 07:58:35 AM
Anyone know anymore about this....TIA

Post from frijole on the main thread:

February 01, 2008, 07:59:54 PM

Yes, because the confession that didn't happen (cough, spit) took place on June 10th. I think the 14th was around the time that Paulus spent the night in the slammer.   Rocks were painted on 12th/13th (arubay videos).

In fact a ton of activity was around that time.  That is when the real cover up began.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 03, 2008, 09:14:22 AM
Lalas the only thing that can be found so far is this:

http://tinyurl.com/2naage

go down to (CP-011) {I can't snag the pic}

Found this on chamber of commerce registry:

MOKO APARTMENTS N.V. 
 
Business address MOKO 30-A, NOORD 
Legal form  LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY 
Name of the company  MOKO APARTMENTS N.V. 
Statutory seat  ARUBA 
Date of incorporation  9 AUGUST 1993 
     
Authorized capital  ARUBAN FLORINS 50,000.00 
Issued capital  ARUBAN FLORINS 10,000.00 
Paid up capital  ARUBAN FLORINS 10,000.00 
Fiscal year  01 JANUARY thru 31 DECEMBER 
   
DIRECTORS - AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND CORPORATE BODIES - SUPERVISORY BOARD: 
 
DIJKHOFF, THOMAS; 
Residing in  TANKI LEENDERT 94-B, NOORD, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 8 JANUARY 1946 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  MANAGING DIRECTOR 
Effective  9 AUGUST 1993 
Authority  FULL 
   
DIJKHOFF-BOEKHOUDT, LUCIA; 
Residing in  TANKI LEENDERT 94-B, NOORD, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 25 JUNE 1949 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  MANAGING DIRECTOR 
Effective  9 AUGUST 1993 
Authority  FULL 


ALSO Notice "The Star" on top of the motel. Wasn't it Merian Ernest who said something about a star?
Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:47 am Post subject: Just head for that big star
straight on.
See how the dead-ends meet? Like the Simian said. There is little to fear as the
Babylonians are swinging the scepter still.


Thanks Yapperz....I haven't had time to have a good look for it yet, but I am looking for info on the bank lady that died in the Netherlands...same surname and then of course the maid....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 03, 2008, 10:25:22 AM
Lala's...I can't find your post from the other day about this, but could this be the guy in the yelloe hummer?

Merian Ernest Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:33 pm Post subject: Soc & Prot
So many people seem to be obsessed with the Simian. Even the santería overlord with the corny chopped verses.

"That my opinion is true by virtue of its being my opinion?"



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 03, 2008, 10:28:47 AM
Lala's...I can't find your post from the other day about this, but could this be the guy in the yelloe hummer?

Merian Ernest Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:33 pm Post subject: Soc & Prot
So many people seem to be obsessed with the Simian. Even the santería overlord with the corny chopped verses.

"That my opinion is true by virtue of its being my opinion?"



I am confused over Caps reference to hummer...the only yellow vehicle I know anything about is Vadir van Loon and the photo that Julia took for us. Merian Ernst was making reference to yellowhammer which is a bird...the state bird of Alabama...I am fairly sure it was a reference to Natalee.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 03, 2008, 10:34:09 AM
THE FIFTH SUSPECT....again.

As i read the Discovery Log Timeline, these are who I see..from the associations column...unless I missed it...Paulus isn't referred to in the same way

2 security guards
J2K
Freddy
Koen

Take away the security guards and who is #5?

http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/Statements_timeline.htm



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 03, 2008, 10:37:30 AM
Lala's...I can't find your post from the other day about this, but could this be the guy in the yelloe hummer?

Merian Ernest Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:33 pm Post subject: Soc & Prot
So many people seem to be obsessed with the Simian. Even the santería overlord with the corny chopped verses.

"That my opinion is true by virtue of its being my opinion?"



I am confused over Caps reference to hummer...the only yellow vehicle I know anything about is Vadir van Loon and the photo that Julia took for us. Merian Ernst was making reference to yellowhammer which is a bird...the state bird of Alabama...I am fairly sure it was a reference to Natalee.

Hi Lala's...I had always taken it that way too...the bird, jackb mentioned another choice a little while back and can't recall what it was. Will have to find it.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 03, 2008, 11:22:05 AM
edit my list to include Steve Croes....LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on February 03, 2008, 02:02:53 PM
(http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/6568/lionsden148is9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 03, 2008, 02:39:13 PM
Lala's...I can't find your post from the other day about this, but could this be the guy in the yelloe hummer?

Merian Ernest Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:33 pm Post subject: Soc & Prot
So many people seem to be obsessed with the Simian. Even the santería overlord with the corny chopped verses.

"That my opinion is true by virtue of its being my opinion?"



I am confused over Caps reference to hummer...the only yellow vehicle I know anything about is Vadir van Loon and the photo that Julia took for us. Merian Ernst was making reference to yellowhammer which is a bird...the state bird of Alabama...I am fairly sure it was a reference to Natalee.

Ok A bit confused....here is the answer

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2007/WORLD/americas/10/09/chavez.taxes.ap/art.chavez.ap.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/10/09/chavez.taxes.ap/index.html&h=219&w=292&sz=20&hl=en&start=3&um=1&tbnid=VaV4E9kHcUyE_M:&tbnh=86&tbnw=115&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhummer%2Bwhisky%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX

The Owner of the Yellow Hummer in aruba trade with venezueal in Whisky.

The FBI Adent that works from Venezuela with an operation between US and Holland but the informant give the wrong info....They took the wrong person The Inoncent..Mistaken Identety.

ALso They never when to the Ocean...do ney let them tell you that thay went there.. shago saya clearly : Mary never heard the buoy toll (she was never on the Ocean)
this statement tell you she was never on a boat nor near the bouy with the bells

The CAPS


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 03, 2008, 03:27:08 PM
Lala's...I can't find your post from the other day about this, but could this be the guy in the yelloe hummer?

Merian Ernest Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:33 pm Post subject: Soc & Prot
So many people seem to be obsessed with the Simian. Even the santería overlord with the corny chopped verses.

"That my opinion is true by virtue of its being my opinion?"



I am confused over Caps reference to hummer...the only yellow vehicle I know anything about is Vadir van Loon and the photo that Julia took for us. Merian Ernst was making reference to yellowhammer which is a bird...the state bird of Alabama...I am fairly sure it was a reference to Natalee.

Ok A bit confused....here is the answer

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2007/WORLD/americas/10/09/chavez.taxes.ap/art.chavez.ap.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/10/09/chavez.taxes.ap/index.html&h=219&w=292&sz=20&hl=en&start=3&um=1&tbnid=VaV4E9kHcUyE_M:&tbnh=86&tbnw=115&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhummer%2Bwhisky%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX

The Owner of the Yellow Hummer in Aruba trade with venezueal in Whisky.

The FBI Agent that works from Venezuela had an operation between US and Holland to get the owner, but the informant give the wrong info....They took the wrong person The Inoncent..Mistaken Identety.

Also Shango say that they never went to the Ocean...do never went there.. shago saya clearly : Mary never heard the buoy toll (she was never on the Ocean)
this statement tell you she was never on a boat nor near the bouy with the bells

The CAPS


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Stom on February 03, 2008, 08:58:40 PM
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:09 pm
 You can’t remember answering a phone call at 2:00 in the morning? When the next day your son was picked up?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:10 pm
 Father is a suspect of the disappearance.

Daury is Paulus's codename.  He must have disposed of the body.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 04, 2008, 10:33:03 AM
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:09 pm
 You can’t remember answering a phone call at 2:00 in the morning? When the next day your son was picked up?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:10 pm
 Father is a suspect of the disappearance.

Daury is Paulus's codename.  He must have disposed of the body.



Hi Stom....please elaborate for me if you can on what is bolded. TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: yapperz1 on February 04, 2008, 03:14:26 PM
(http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/6568/lionsden148is9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)


OR

(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l286/yapperz1/mokowhitehousefh8.jpg)

FOLLOW WHICH STAR????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 04, 2008, 06:33:02 PM
Follow the star...

Depends where you want to go....

Let me know

or the line of the shango


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: NCMike on February 05, 2008, 11:59:59 PM
LaLa,

Suppose JVdS is telling the truth about using the pay phone at the Marriott.

Why use a pay phone? -----  To call your drug dealer?

Who was JVdS drug dealer? ---- Lorenzo?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lake Erie Princess on February 06, 2008, 01:01:49 AM
LaLa,

Suppose JVdS is telling the truth about using the pay phone at the Marriott.

Why use a pay phone? -----  To call your drug dealer?

Who was JVdS drug dealer? ---- Lorenzo?



Joran had a cell phone, or didn't he ?
Fishy story to use the pay phone, unless he did not want the call on record ? Aruba should have records of calls made on their pay phones, I would think ?

I still think that Joran killed Nat at his home, and his Dad helped him dispose of her body.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on February 06, 2008, 03:26:22 AM
Caps,
I read a post where you were looking for someone who built the Marriott..

I found in one of JVDS police statements where he mentions a girlfried who now lives in the states Jillian Johnson, he said that her father built the Marriott. 

this is the link  ][url] (http://[url)[/url]http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/police_documents/joran610.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 06, 2008, 03:03:33 PM
LALA Thanks for the link. but Now I need to  know the person that was in charge of constructing the Ritz.

The person that I am looking for is that supposed to have the lucrative contract for the materials in the deal of the Ritz Carlton.

The AHATA board know...This person wanted to be on the board of Directors for AHATA but they left him out.

Here is what I have research and I came to the following conclusion..

The Hammer nor the Block belong to a person. This person supposed to have got a contract for the building of The Ritz. , Now when the problem begin with the area, Marriott wanted to continue with the project but asked for incentives and Tax deal where the Hotel will be build with all material and including furniture will be tax exempt.

This person must have made a deal with Nelson Dauber, and Nelson must have gone to Holland to fore them to change the LAW to accommodate his friend developer. Holland said no, The AHATA also did not include him in the tribe and so his plan is to sabotage the whole project by performing a kidnap then turning in murder of Natalee. The person I think is:

Mark Purcell

Mark Purcell joined Interstate in 1988 as an accounting manager and gained additional financial experience in a number of related positions, culminating in director of business development.  In his new position as vice president, business development and feasibility, he will be responsible for sourcing and pursuing hotel management and acquisition opportunities.  Mark has a pr oven record of success with our development and acquisitions group,” Jorns explained.  “His experience and contacts will be invaluable as we continue to expand our acquisition activities.”

Jorge Pesquera, The President of the Aruban Hotel and Tourism Association (AHATA) put this Task Force together – with member selection help and input from Joran’s attorney Antonio Carlo, and Mark Purcell’s wife Marlene.

On June 30, 2005 Aruban Prime Minister Nelson Oduber makes this telling statement about the effectiveness of this hand picked Task Force.

Prime Minister Nelson Oduber presents “anti incorrect news” committee



I believe that Mr. Purcell had a plan to destroy the AHATA, Mr. Ourcell was from a higher class in the tourism business bu by leaving him out of the AHATA, He decided to boycot Aruba.






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sirensong on February 07, 2008, 12:57:50 AM
Wow!   Interesting work you guys!!    ::MonkeyWink::  I love reading your Shango Tango!  Good  work Caps!! 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 07, 2008, 08:13:25 AM

Ckeck Mbox


who is the brother of joran, the one that born in aruba

just Pauls and anita little fam tree

Paulus
Anita
Joran - born in the NL
Valentijn - born in Aruba (I think)
Sabastian - born in Aruba

Valentijn is about 2 years younger than Joran and Sebastian is about 2 or 3 years younger than Valentijn.

This is Valentijn.  The photo was taken at Carlos n Charlies on April 7. 2007.  I believe that Joran Valentijn just graduated high school this year.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ValCnC040707-1-2.jpg)

Klaas and Caps, I found this in the archives, it says 2 of the 3 were born in NL

2  Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #706 12/20 - on: December 21, 2007, 07:41:34 PM 

snip
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/paul_van_der_sl_1.html

Paul Van der Sloot Background

Tilburg
Van der Sloot (53) got his legal education at the University of Tilburg in the seventies. He co-founded the Legal Faculty Association Tilburg and also the faculty newspaper ‘Nondejure'. After he finished his studies he did not went to work for the government, but assisted citizens that had conflicts with the government.  It was in that period in Arnhem, where he met a woman Anita (teacher of Artistic Formation) and it was also there were Joran and Valentijn, two of his three suns, were born.
New job
In 1991 Paul van der Sloot thought it was the time for a new job and he found one in Aruba where he was appointed for five year as a lawyer for the Aruban government.

Monday, June 27, 2005 at 11:23 AM
 

Lala's bringing these forward it says that Val was born in Aruba... ::MonkeyWink::



Bringing this forward so that someone can help with my confusion....Val dob...December when....what year....I read last night Joran said he'd been in Aruba 18 years...we have they moved 1991 and it's just now 2008. If Val graduated 2007...was he born in 1990...
I'm just wondering if Val wasn't born in Aruba...anyone.....?????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 07, 2008, 08:20:03 AM
Caps...I'm doing a search of construction companies on Aruba and a familar name appears, both on construction companies and construction legal services.

Legal services...Wever Croes and Tchong...Hendrick...I wonder what happened to the senior partner Mr Wever

Construction...HJC Engineering...Wever....another Hendrick

http://www.hjcaruba.com/aboutus/index.html




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 07, 2008, 09:04:42 AM
Caps...I'm doing a search of construction companies on Aruba and a familar name appears, both on construction companies and construction legal services.

Legal services...Wever Croes and Tchong...Hendrick...I wonder what happened to the senior partner Mr Wever

Construction...HJC Engineering...Wever....another Hendrick

http://www.hjcaruba.com/aboutus/index.html





Did Paulus have anything to do with the construction contracts awarded in 2002...in particular the Marriott ones? And yes I still want to know about the airport contracts and the US Gov't money from 2000 as apparently they are way behind schedule that money was allocated for the airport.  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 07, 2008, 10:12:34 AM
Caps.......every path I followed on construction companies and materials took me to one name....CROES.....which took me to Setar, tourism...

Lala's...do you remember that post of Sam's from I believe Getagrip about the elections? Rudy didn't have enough votes to hold the position of Justice Minister and he said he would take the Tourism post if Hendrick could have the Justice one.....my question...if he didn't have enough votes, and he still holds the position...what does he have?????????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 07, 2008, 11:06:26 AM
Something to think about....

82.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The new hammer and block could not island hop. The Babylonians can’t keep the gates shut forever. The days are 116 and they each have a number.
The Babylonians can’t use the whip on the boy. A elder is playing mute. If he doesn’t know, why did he heed the call?
The music man is singing. His song is not on the bill. One witness is not a witness.


For starters I know there was something up with that new judge not getting there and believe this had to do with DNA.....the bolded part

The music man, Lorenzo - DJ- is talking. His song - Paulus is Poppa - then one witness is not going to testify against his family. Thoughts!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on February 07, 2008, 11:56:45 AM

Ckeck Mbox


who is the brother of joran, the one that born in aruba

just Pauls and anita little fam tree

Paulus
Anita
Joran - born in the NL
Valentijn - born in Aruba (I think)
Sabastian - born in Aruba

Valentijn is about 2 years younger than Joran and Sebastian is about 2 or 3 years younger than Valentijn.

This is Valentijn.  The photo was taken at Carlos n Charlies on April 7. 2007.  I believe that Joran Valentijn just graduated high school this year.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ValCnC040707-1-2.jpg)

Klaas and Caps, I found this in the archives, it says 2 of the 3 were born in NL

2  Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #706 12/20 - on: December 21, 2007, 07:41:34 PM 

snip
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/paul_van_der_sl_1.html

Paul Van der Sloot Background

Tilburg
Van der Sloot (53) got his legal education at the University of Tilburg in the seventies. He co-founded the Legal Faculty Association Tilburg and also the faculty newspaper ‘Nondejure'. After he finished his studies he did not went to work for the government, but assisted citizens that had conflicts with the government.  It was in that period in Arnhem, where he met a woman Anita (teacher of Artistic Formation) and it was also there were Joran and Valentijn, two of his three suns, were born.
New job
In 1991 Paul van der Sloot thought it was the time for a new job and he found one in Aruba where he was appointed for five year as a lawyer for the Aruban government.

Monday, June 27, 2005 at 11:23 AM
 

Lala's bringing these forward it says that Val was born in Aruba... ::MonkeyWink::



Bringing this forward so that someone can help with my confusion....Val dob...December when....what year....I read last night Joran said he'd been in Aruba 18 years...we have they moved 1991 and it's just now 2008. If Val graduated 2007...was he born in 1990...
I'm just wondering if Val wasn't born in Aruba...anyone.....?????
Mum...According to Nut44x4... Val was born on Dec 13 the year I don't know...Nut posted it this thread reply# 1643 on 2/02  ::MonkeyConfused::   


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 07, 2008, 12:12:27 PM
Hi hotping...thanks...looking for the year....Joran said he had been in Aruba 18 years and I think Val is 17, but not sure.

Just a loose end to do with that PV that was mentioned from someone born in Aruba, December birthday....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 07, 2008, 12:33:00 PM
Follow the star...

Depends where you want to go....

Let me know

or the line of the shango

"Follow the Star"...........

Posner (THE elder)
North end of Aruba (north star)
White House Apts./Moko

"Follow the Music".........

Nightclubs (C&C)
DJ's/Reggae Music
Lorenzo's "disco"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 07, 2008, 01:40:46 PM
LaLa,

Suppose JVdS is telling the truth about using the pay phone at the Marriott.

Why use a pay phone? -----  To call your drug dealer?

Who was JVdS drug dealer? ---- Lorenzo?



Joran had a cell phone, or didn't he ?
Fishy story to use the pay phone, unless he did not want the call on record ? Aruba should have records of calls made on their pay phones, I would think ?

I still think that Joran killed Nat at his home, and his Dad helped him dispose of her body.


Joran uses his cell phone to call the Kalpoes on his way home that night...yes he had a cell phone.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 07, 2008, 01:50:55 PM
LaLa,

Suppose JVdS is telling the truth about using the pay phone at the Marriott.

Why use a pay phone? -----  To call your drug dealer?

Who was JVdS drug dealer? ---- Lorenzo?



Joran had a cell phone, or didn't he ?
Fishy story to use the pay phone, unless he did not want the call on record ? Aruba should have records of calls made on their pay phones, I would think ?

I still think that Joran killed Nat at his home, and his Dad helped him dispose of her body.


Joran uses his cell phone to call the Kalpoes on his way home that night...yes he had a cell phone.


Hi Lala's...according to J's book all his buddies had two...one for each girlfriend, but he didn't...LOL...I say the other one was for the drug dealer or porn man...or both.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 07, 2008, 01:53:17 PM
Who would be considered Aruba's mafia?  Who are the players? Anyone?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 07, 2008, 01:55:14 PM
Back to that December birthday...I believe in the PV from this person they stated that Nat was drunk...so you can see why I would like to rule young Val in or out....

Joran to Anita..'this wouldn't have happened if you had have been here'...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 07, 2008, 02:01:41 PM
The reporter that died with her hand in her pocket from suicide was working on a story of some kind, I am sure.  I wonder what it was?  Who was she asking about on Aruba?  What did she have in her story? We need to find that out too.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 07, 2008, 02:01:49 PM
Who would be considered Aruba's mafia?  Who are the players? Anyone?

I bet the Customs/DEA down there could tell us....LOL

IMO....South American...Columbian Venezuelan, maybe from Suriname. I remember reading how the ordinary Aruban had not liked the changes since a lot from these places moved there.

I was reading a little this morning on work visas and they require a police statement showing a clean record before they will grant you one. Guess this means that Posner didn't need one.

Would that be under Rudy's jurisdiction?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 07, 2008, 02:03:02 PM
Back to that December birthday...I believe in the PV from this person they stated that Nat was drunk...so you can see why I would like to rule young Val in or out....

Joran to Anita..'this wouldn't have happened if you had have been here'...

I am lost...where is this story about the December birthday?  Remind me again. TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 07, 2008, 02:08:34 PM
The reporter that died with her hand in her pocket from suicide was working on a story of some kind, I am sure.  I wonder what it was?  Who was she asking about on Aruba?  What did she have in her story? We need to find that out too.


******* just posted on her a couple of days ago, I think he said he had contact with her family...please don't quote me though!

I do remember the last big story was the 'Race Junkies'....ahhhh...are we heading back to Lorenzo!

Quite possible that she came across something on that story though! Remember her cameraman just a few days later, same thing!

Must have been really something to drive them both to suicide!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 07, 2008, 02:17:28 PM
Back to that December birthday...I believe in the PV from this person they stated that Nat was drunk...so you can see why I would like to rule young Val in or out....

Joran to Anita..'this wouldn't have happened if you had have been here'...

I am lost...where is this story about the December birthday?  Remind me again. TIA


LOL...Leslie found something from a PV back I think in December, there's someting on it a couple of pages back. Well I asked Nut about it as both of them where trying to track it down. Long story short, Nut posted over here about it and that's how the subject got here.

I believe the PV states that Nat was very drunk. Anyway the PV'er was born in Aruba and had a December birthday. It came out during the last J2K arrests and Leslie felt there was something significant about it.

Most of the PVs that I've seen don't have that info on it...and the only one we.ve seen with a December b'day is Val, but we thought he was born in the Netherlands.  Maybe not....may not even been him...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 07, 2008, 02:27:12 PM
Lala's this is from the Lorenzo thread....just brought the whole post over...

Maybe a whole lot of nothing, but found it interesting! Had mentioned them in the Shango and Simian thread a few days back and when Pita posted about Astrid I thought I’d do a little checking. Was the Soul Beach festival held at or near the racetrack? I seem to recall something about parking there.


This is from 2004, but notice the spelling of Arends/Arendz

April 30-May 2 GARAGE CENTRAAL EXTRAVAGANZA
The Aruba Drag Race Foundation (ADRF) celebrates 21 years of drag racing in Aruba with this spectacular international event. Contact Roland Arends at Tel. (297)-584-0322/Fax. (297)-587-3884 E-mail draginaruba@hotmail.com or visit the website www.draginaruba.com for additional information.


These are the about the two TV suicides Dec 2006 and Jan 2007…I knew I remember a racing connection. Note what their last documentary was about. Both are listed on page 16 of the Murder and Crime thread.

Posted on LCD Jan 8th by Florida:


Brigitte Katelaan worked for ATV and TeleAruba as a producer.
Camilo Romero worked for ATV as a cameraman and ?

Both found dead by hanging within weeks of each other.
(Brigitte's latest doumentaries: The International Racetrack
& legal/illegal prostitution in certain towns in Aruba.)

Television Stations:
ATV Aruba Broadcasting Co. N.V....3rd floor of Royal Plaza Mall
P.O. Box 5040, Oranjestad
Tel: (297) 583-8150
Fax:(297) 583-8570

Tele Aruba
P.O. Box 392, Oranjestad
Pos Chiquito 1-A
SPAANS LAGOEN n/a
Tel: (297) 585-7302
Fax: (297) 585-1683

(Would Aru-bay videos be a part of ATV or TeleAruba?)


This is where the discussion started about the two of them and pics:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=714.540
This is the pics and story on Brigittte :

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=672.20

Found that post about the house being the same one that Joran came out of...LOL...it was on this thread, first one or two pages. I posted it over on the S/S thread this morning!Still looking for Lorenzo's lawyer!
 
 
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Chata on February 07, 2008, 02:27:38 PM


[/quote]
Hi Lala's...according to J's book all his buddies had two...one for each girlfriend, but he didn't...LOL...I say the other one was for the drug dealer or porn man...or both.
[/quote]

I remember something about Joran going by his girlfriend's house and picking up a cell phone.  She shared this in an interview maybe or from a post on RWV or maybe here, at the beginning.  Can't remember if it was the same night that Natalee disappeared.  Maybe someone can find it.  If that is so, maybe he did have two cell phones at one time.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on February 07, 2008, 02:36:22 PM
Back to that December birthday...I believe in the PV from this person they stated that Nat was drunk...so you can see why I would like to rule young Val in or out....

Joran to Anita..'this wouldn't have happened if you had have been here'...

I am lost...where is this story about the December birthday?  Remind me again. TIA


LOL...Leslie found something from a PV back I think in December, there's someting on it a couple of pages back. Well I asked Nut about it as both of them where trying to track it down. Long story short, Nut posted over here about it and that's how the subject got here.

I believe the PV states that Nat was very drunk. Anyway the PV'er was born in Aruba and had a December birthday. It came out during the last J2K arrests and Leslie felt there was something significant about it.

Most of the PVs that I've seen don't have that info on it...and the only one we.ve seen with a December b'day is Val, but we thought he was born in the Netherlands.  Maybe not....may not even been him...
Maybe one of the Dutch posters could find out when and where Val was born..I know here in the states up until a few years ago it was easy to find this info....Maybe even someone could ask Jossy to find out...just a thought.. ::MonkeyWink::   


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 07, 2008, 02:39:33 PM


Hi Lala's...according to J's book all his buddies had two...one for each girlfriend, but he didn't...LOL...I say the other one was for the drug dealer or porn man...or both.
[/quote]

I remember something about Joran going by his girlfriend's house and picking up a cell phone.  She shared this in an interview maybe or from a post on RWV or maybe here, at the beginning.  Can't remember if it was the same night that Natalee disappeared.  Maybe someone can find it.  If that is so, maybe he did have two cell phones at one time.
[/quote]

Hi Chata...Thanks...Was that Melody...TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 07, 2008, 02:44:41 PM
Thanks hotping...great idea...maybe I'll see if any of the Dutch posters are on in the morning....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 07, 2008, 02:49:34 PM
LOL Lala's...now it's posted on both threads!!!

Notice how everything is intertwined? I look for Arends/Arendz, the young Max's, and come to 2 suicides/race junkies and did I see old 'Bibi's name in that post...Second in charge of the Aruba Lions 2005-2006...sorry links gone...Poof!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 07, 2008, 02:49:49 PM
I know this wildly unpopular, but it's food for thought.  Joran never tells the whole truth about anything. So I still can't believe he walked to the Marriott to call someone just after a girl died in his arms. Joran clearly knew what had happened before she died and to me walking into the Marriott is not what I would do if I were not planning on getting her any help. 

Joran uses his cell phone at 2;26 AM near the McDonald's so there is little reason for him to use a pay phone.  I am thinking he did indeed walk through that area to find a buddy of his...either Freddy or Koen.  Remember Sander had the boat out but Joran declined to go and opted to play poker instead.  If Freddy was working that night, he could have been close.  I may have that wrong as to if Freddy was there working but there is a reason he tells the pay phone story.  I am thinking of the possible people he could round up in that one place that he knew.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 07, 2008, 03:01:29 PM
I know this wildly unpopular, but it's food for thought.  Joran never tells the whole truth about anything. So I still can't believe he walked to the Marriott to call someone just after a girl died in his arms. Joran clearly knew what had happened before she died and to me walking into the Marriott is not what I would do if I were not planning on getting her any help. 

Joran uses his cell phone at 2;26 AM near the McDonald's so there is little reason for him to use a pay phone.  I am thinking he did indeed walk through that area to find a buddy of his...either Freddy or Koen.  Remember Sander had the boat out but Joran declined to go and opted to play poker instead.  If Freddy was working that night, he could have been close.  I may have that wrong as to if Freddy was there working but there is a reason he tells the pay phone story.  I am thinking of the possible people he could round up in that one place that he knew.

No way to prove if Freddy was working, but he's been questioned too many times and he is the #1 Pimp.

Did you see the post, I think from Buckeye about Guido working at the Marriott? Some one called the Marriott and asked, but I don't think they got a call back. Will ask Buckeye. After that it was only said that he worked at the HI.

Tyler posted that there was a big bust right after Natalee disappeared and then there was the Richard Lacle thing with the Feds in Florida(money laundering). Will go back tomorrow and see what I come up with.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 07, 2008, 03:06:41 PM
Follow the star...

Depends where you want to go....

Let me know

or the line of the shango

"Follow the Star"...........

Posner (THE elder)
North end of Aruba (north star)
White House Apts./Moko

"Follow the Music".........

Nightclubs (C&C)
DJ's/Reggae Music
Lorenzo's "disco"



Hi Debra....I'm leaning towards apartments, but have a window open on Lorenzo...Posner is interesting.

Follow the music....DJs...I know of three....not sure on this


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on February 07, 2008, 03:11:34 PM
Thanks hotping...great idea...maybe I'll see if any of the Dutch posters are on in the morning....
There is one on now who I think might could help Ciskebab I think is the name....seems very helpful and knowledable ::MonkeyWink::...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 07, 2008, 03:17:41 PM
Lala's...Pic about two thirds of the way down the page.....

MUSCARIELLO, Renzo – DJ, reportedly friends with Steve Croes & Paul Brough
   
http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=eKAATIcbMSLQqrkP


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=203.0



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 07, 2008, 03:24:44 PM
Lala's...Pic about two thirds of the way down the page.....

MUSCARIELLO, Renzo – DJ, reportedly friends with Steve Croes & Paul Brough
   
http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=eKAATIcbMSLQqrkP


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=203.0




Lala's...Klaas says she not sure about him being friends with Brough. Was going to check on him this morning and ran out of time....may just be more useless information....gotta run....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Chata on February 07, 2008, 03:50:38 PM
I remember something about Joran going by his girlfriend's house and picking up a cell phone.  She shared this in an interview maybe or from a post on RWV or maybe here, at the beginning.  Can't remember if it was the same night that Natalee disappeared.  Maybe someone can find it.  If that is so, maybe he did have two cell phones at one time.


Hi Chata...Thanks...Was that Melody...TIA


No, I don't think it was Melody ... thinking about it some more, it would have to be Flor.  Was she the current one???  I guess I had Melody in mind because she posted at RWV and was interviewed and tried to alibi Joran.  I just remember it was said Joran went by to pick up the phone before going to C&C's.  Probably a lie like everything else.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 08, 2008, 04:54:33 AM
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:09 pm
 You can’t remember answering a phone call at 2:00 in the morning? When the next day your son was picked up?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:10 pm
 Father is a suspect of the disappearance.

Daury is Paulus's codename.  He must have disposed of the body.



I have been waiting patiently for Stom to enlighten me further......

Codename implies, to me anyway, something covert. Which would take me back to drugs, money laundering, smuggling, prostitution and from my brief readings Aruba is a 'mafia' island.

FARC - Columbians, Venuzuelans, Russians and obvious others. It's a free trade zone, lots of import/export businesses.

No wonder the ordinary Arubans won't talk....just look at all the unexplained deaths since we started following this case or should I say arubacides.

This would also explain Joran's bloodied tongue.

Going back to read Simian....the crime...Freddy...Freddy...Freddy...#1 for#5

Thanks Chata and hotping.....there's something up with that pay phone story and there is even more up when Taco says the Aruban Coast Guard checked it out...



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 08, 2008, 07:39:33 AM
Still trying to sort this one out.....In Joran's book he said his father was picked up this day when he went to KIA to visit him. My question is about the 'again'. It was posted on the other thread that Paulus spent the night in the slammer. Not sure if it was the 14th. or the 17th. The non-search of the house was on the 15th. Could this be the same house that posters referred to as seeing on an earlier arrest?

Simian started posting the 17th........more coincidence.....

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 11:17 am
Waiting for a call…

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 2:23 pm
The older Van Der Sloot has been taken in again by Aruban Police.

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 2:27 pm
Can’t confirm that he is detained. He has been taken in again by the authorities.

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 2:30 pm
Paulus has been picked up.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MsVada on February 08, 2008, 08:43:13 AM
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:10 pm
 Father is a suspect of the disappearance.

Daury is Paulus's codename.  He must have disposed of the body.


I have been here since the beginning. I spent many months posting in the "Codetalkers" forum.....I have saved the original postings from Shango/Simian.....I absolutely have never heard or seen the highlighted comment about Daury is Paulus's codename.....Would someone kindly tell me how they obtained  that? TIA
MsVada




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 08, 2008, 09:09:58 AM
I was trying to make a little sense of Simian's posts or timing of them....LOL..

Simian started posting 6/17....was this when Paulus was first hauled in and let go?

Resumed on 6/22...though the Discovery Log Timeline says Paulus was detained 6/22, all else says 6/23?...Confused about this...

I found some interesting things in Paulus' PV, especially regarding Eric Williams and do not see any mention of the Racquet Club for 5/31. This is when Freddy said he was there with Joran. there has been alot of confusion as to when Joran told Freddy what, and IMO Freddy was at the Racquet Club with all the pimps on 5/30.

     http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/police_documents/pvds623.htm

     
     http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/index.htm



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 08, 2008, 09:17:04 AM
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:10 pm
 Father is a suspect of the disappearance.

Daury is Paulus's codename.  He must have disposed of the body.


I have been here since the beginning. I spent many months posting in the "Codetalkers" forum.....I have saved the original postings from Shango/Simian.....I absolutely have never heard or seen the highlighted comment about Daury is Paulus's codename.....Would someone kindly tell me how they obtained  that? TIA
MsVada





Hi MsVada.....I took that as Stom's opinion, which is why I asked him to elaborate...I highlighted it in my response to Stom....it wasn't highlighted in his original post.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 08, 2008, 09:54:02 AM
Same story from Paulus about Williams in his first PV...it does not jive with what Beth said and what we have hased out numerous times.....also apparent that he is very familiar with Charles Croes. Interesting where the pages are missing from this PV....to me anyway as I was at the ISA website this morning and their links intrigued me.


from PV

 The headmaster then barred these people access to the school grounds. If the girl wasn't found, there was a good chance that the boys would be seen as suspects again. I did find it a bit strange that the boys weren't asked to make more detailed statements, and so I concluded for myself that there probably was information that the girl in fact had been seen after...

PAGE OR PAGES MISSING FROM STATEMENT  

...spoken. With some friends who visited us we undoubtedly spoke about this because it was on our minds too. Some of our friends are members of  “Friends of Aruba” and were closely involved with the search for the girl.

You ask me whether I told the boys that they would be taped. I did say that, but only because I suspected that, and a little bit as a joke. Not because I knew there were being taped.



ISA........http://www.isaruba.com/home1/home.html





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 08, 2008, 10:21:01 AM
Anna just posted this and seeing Lala's is totally confused about the December birthday, I'll post it here...now I have to go find the post of Leslie's....LOL...Lala's, a PV surfaced from someone born in Aruba with a December birthday, only person found was Val, but he was apparently not born in Aruba....or was he?


Also Lorenzo’s family had already told a newspaper in the past that this story about half brother is not true.  The two families had contact with each other right after family Van der Sloot moved to Aruba in 1990.  “They had an auto-repair shop and we have taken our car to them a few times.  Lorenzo was five or six years old at that time and Joran two-and-a-half.”





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 08, 2008, 10:35:17 AM
Whew!  I am glad Anita cleared that Lorenzo thing up for us.  As an afterthought, oh never mind....Sloot arrived in 1990.  Val was born when?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 08, 2008, 10:49:09 AM
Why would Eric Williams identify himself as FBI?  This story is slightly different from the one Beth told in her book, did anyone notice?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 08, 2008, 11:03:37 AM
I don't think Val has anything to do with all this.  After all, he was the first person to log into the computer that fateful night.  I think computer records show his hotmail account being accessed at that time, I could be wrong. If I am right, why was he up at that hour anyway?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 08, 2008, 11:07:32 AM
Why would Eric Williams identify himself as FBI?  This story is slightly different from the one Beth told in her book, did anyone notice?

Yep...and who would you believe, also Paulus said he met him back at the HI...not the story at all. Interesting...I remember in Joran's earlier statements he said FBI and I dismissed it as having to do with Jody Bearman, but also Joran said agents from the Consul....confusing.

Just checking Leslie's posts and I've got to a PV, a screenshot of which was shown on De Vries show, not the recent one, but that person said Natalee offered him a sniff of cocaine. I don't suppose she would have met that many locals, do you?

Anyways, Val apparently graduated 2007, so I'm trying to work out how old he is. May be nothing, but don't like all these loose ends, and somebody put this in a PV!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 08, 2008, 11:10:49 AM
This is one of Leslie's posts about it and I'm still checking and haven't followed the link...Dec. 6th...9.16am

Isn't this important information that there is a PV stating that a person who was born in Aruba with a birthday in December, said that NH offered him/her a sniff of cocaine?
That rules out Joran, Deepak, Satish, Freddy, Paul, Jaime, etc.   I am trying to find Val's birthday.  Anybody know?

International Friends of Aruba:
http://www.ifaruba.com/newsletter.html



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 08, 2008, 11:15:15 AM
In fact, it is nothing like what Beth said happened.  Williams told Beth to remain in the car until he got there...Paulus first saw Williams at the HI?  I could go on, but you get the idea...interesting....

Paulus statement:

The police officers were also somewhat tired of the situation and said that the Americans should report the girl missing. We then drove to the police-station in Noord and the police-officers consulted with the watch-commander. They also changed cars. I understood that the watch-commander had no objections to the police-officers going to the Holiday Inn together with Deepak, Joran and myself. When we arrived at the Holiday Inn there was a dark coloured man there standing with folded arms who later introduced himself as WILLIAMS from the F.B.I. This man immediately took Joran separately and had a short talk with him. I also went over to WILLIAMS and asked him what his function was. Then he told me he was with the F.B.I. so I returned to the the police officers and asked them whether they knew that F.B.I. officers were present there. They told me they did not know anything about that. I briefly talked with a member of staff from the Holiday Inn who told me there was only one camera and that this camera was pointed in the direction of the front desk. I also understood it was not certain whether or not that camera was actually working. One of the police officers had a lengthy discussion with WILLIAMS in the back of the lobby. I understood from the officer that he had informed WILLIAMS of the existence of the so-called “Beach bums”.


According to Beth the DEA agent arrives at the Sloot home.  Remember, Williams tells her to wait in the car. He is the last one arriving.  Paulus could not have met in the HI standing in the back of the lobby unless he was there...Beth doesn't say they went back to the HI, she says they went to the Wyndham looking for Joran and then back to the Sloots. 

Again, I am confused.  Good catch!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 08, 2008, 11:20:17 AM
Lala's...do you remember anything about that screenshot on a Devries show.
All I think I can remeber is a repeat of his show that Leslie saw this on.

Seems to me someone stuck there neck out here.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 08, 2008, 11:27:56 AM
Thanks Lala's...I had noticed between Joran and Paulus before the references to gov't peeps and thought that weird, never noticed the story was different from Beth's. Will find which one of Joran's he talks about it.

Any thoughts on why the Discovery Timeline Log has the 22nd. as Paulus arrest date? Could be just an error. Now I have to go back and check dates and make sure I am clear on things when I check over there.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 08, 2008, 12:48:21 PM
For Chata and Lala's....looks like they knew about phones early on...my guess cell phones, not pay phones...Is it just me or is it strange that they are asking if the girls have phones?

To your question whether I have a girlfriend, I answer to you that I had a girlfriend. After this happened I told my girlfriend what had happened and she wasn't happy about it. My girlfriend's name is "Elaine" but I do not remember het last name now. I do not know the address where Elaine lives, but I can point out her house to you. Elaine is Aruban and she studies at the Colegio Arubano Oranjestad. A few weeks ago she and her fellow students went to Venezuela. She now is in class V-4 on the Colegio Arubano and she is 17 years old. Elaine has a mobile phone, but her name is under the nickname "Fishy" in the memory of my mobile phone.

 have to say that I have another girlfriend now. Her name is "Florencia METZ". She just graduated from the Mavo and lives behind "Codemsa". Her friends and acquaintances call her "Flor". I do not know the number of her house but I can point it out to you. Flor has a mobile phone with the number "REMOVED". Flor is from Argentina and I speak Dutch with her.





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MsVada on February 08, 2008, 12:53:17 PM
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:10 pm
 Father is a suspect of the disappearance.

Daury is Paulus's codename.  He must have disposed of the body.


I have been here since the beginning. I spent many months posting in the "Codetalkers" forum.....I have saved the original postings from Shango/Simian.....I absolutely have never heard or seen the highlighted comment about Daury is Paulus's codename.....Would someone kindly tell me how they obtained  that? TIA
MsVada





Hi MsVada.....I took that as Stom's opinion, which is why I asked him to elaborate...I highlighted it in my response to Stom....it wasn't highlighted in his original post.


Hi Mum

When I first read it, I thought someone was saying Simian said it.....I saw it wasn't highlighted which further made me want to ask for clarification. I've seen a few variations of Shango/Simian posts in which people have added or changed things and wanted to be sure it wasn't thecase here.......

IMHO,  I really don't know who Daury really is, but some of the speculations are plausable


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 08, 2008, 12:57:03 PM
Sorry Chata...having a hard time following his lies...in 3 paragraphs no less..

After my father came and picked me up at Mc Donalds we drove home. I took a shower. After that I got dressed again, and according to me at approximately 24.00 hours, Deepak and Satish came and picked me up at home. Before they came and picked me up, I had called Deepak to ask where he was, and he told me that he was on his way. At approximately 00.15 hours the three of us left for Carlos & Charlies. (with this Monday May 30th is meant; comment Jacobs). I have to say that I also called Flor and asked if she wanted to come to Carlos & Charlies. She answered that she wasn't allowed to go from her dad. Flor is 16 years old.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 08, 2008, 01:43:45 PM
Not sure exactly what he saying...LOL, but I think it was Jody Bearman at the house. I think he is saying what Paulus said, but haven't come across the one where he mentions a Consul agent yet! I think he said Smit? I t may have been from his book and I'm pretty sure I posted about that on Dec.5th...LOL

Joran's 6/14 PV.....
Then approximately 5 cars approached. There were two police officers among them. There were a couple of people that said that they were FBI. Natalee's mother was also there. Then Deepak and myself were attacked with questions. At a certain point Deepak was cursed out by one of the men. Then my father said that enough is enough, that the police officers were the ones with authority here. At my house I had talked to a man, I don't know if he was the father. I had told him that from Carlos & Charlies we had dropped her off at the Hotel. I cannot remember telling him that I fingered Natalee. After that we had to go with the police to the police station in Noord. Deepak, my father and myself went to the police station. At the police station in Noord we did not say what had happened to the girl. We did say that we dropped off Natalee at the Holiday Inn. After that we had to go to the Holiday Inn. There were were attacked again by a woman who said she was with the FBI. I also briefly talked to agent WILLIAMS of the FBI. I had told him we had dropped off the girl at the Holiday Inn. It is possible that I told him that I had kissed or had fingered Natalee. For the rest I had told him nothing.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 08, 2008, 02:29:39 PM
Just had athought about following the star......Star of David....

Came to mind with all what is on the Judicial Inc site and Debra's mention of the North Star and I just can't get the 'only David left the den alive' out of my mind!

I need to go back a few pages and look at the other stars....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 08, 2008, 05:35:56 PM
LaLa,

Suppose JVdS is telling the truth about using the pay phone at the Marriott.

Why use a pay phone? -----  To call your drug dealer?

Who was JVdS drug dealer? ---- Lorenzo?



Joran had a cell phone, or didn't he ?
Fishy story to use the pay phone, unless he did not want the call on record ? Aruba should have records of calls made on their pay phones, I would think ?

I still think that Joran killed Nat at his home, and his Dad helped him dispose of her body.


Hi LEP:

What if somebody else had the payphone?

"Who heeded his call? Who switched places?"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 08, 2008, 05:40:58 PM
sorry-meant cellphone in prev post.......

"If you were asleep who answered your phone?"  (JVDS' cellphone?)




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 08, 2008, 07:34:20 PM
Cordes case (St Maarten) video update-sounds familiar:
http://www.zebrabot.com/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 09, 2008, 09:37:06 AM
Hi COLUMBO...Paulus had Anita's phone...and Sander lost his phone...just why did Joran make a point of saying Paulus was using Anita's phone?

BBL later to watch the vid...I'm still working on the connection...not the sharpest knife in the drawer...LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 09, 2008, 09:52:55 AM
Hi COLUMBO...Paulus had Anita's phone...and Sander lost his phone...just why did Joran make a point of saying Paulus was using Anita's phone?

BBL later to watch the vid...I'm still working on the connection...not the sharpest knife in the drawer...LOL


Of course, ALE never had the intelligence to check all the Sloots and the rest of the cast of characters cell records.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 09, 2008, 11:15:21 AM
Hi COLUMBO...Paulus had Anita's phone...and Sander lost his phone...just why did Joran make a point of saying Paulus was using Anita's phone?

BBL later to watch the vid...I'm still working on the connection...not the sharpest knife in the drawer...LOL


Of course, ALE never had the intelligence to check all the Sloots and the rest of the cast of characters cell records.

Page 16 or 17 of the other thread...from the front page...rumor of a reported find of a cell phone right after Nat disappeared....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 09, 2008, 11:50:31 AM
As I said before...Joran didn't use that pay phone.  He had one in his pocket that he used.  If not his it was either Sander's phone  (which I doubt) or a phone he carries with him to call his dealer or his go-to guy that helps with the girls after it's all over.  The reason he mentioned the Marriott is due to either someone seeing him there or he was looking for a buddy of his.  MOO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 09, 2008, 11:53:39 AM
OOPS!  Forgot to add if the story of Paulus' cell phone being found behind the fisherman's huts area is true...then Paulus lost it when he was back there with Joran.  Either picking him up or when they were looking for a fish trap.  Maybe Joran had daddy's cell phone in his pocket too. (which I doubt) Why is Sander's missing phone so important? Because it was lost too.  So we have two cell phones lost...Sander's and Paulus'. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. MOO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 09, 2008, 12:20:51 PM
OOPS!  Forgot to add if the story of Paulus' cell phone being found behind the fisherman's huts area is true...then Paulus lost it when he was back there with Joran.  Either picking him up or when they were looking for a fish trap.  Maybe Joran had daddy's cell phone in his pocket too. (which I doubt) Why is Sander's missing phone so important? Because it was lost too.  So we have two cell phones lost...Sander's and Paulus'. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. MOO


I took it that way at first too Lala's, but the guy said he dialed the last number and Paulus answered. that would mean it wasn't poppa's phone. My thought as to why he had Anita's is that he didn't want his checked.

Very possible there was a cell found because of all the questions about cells in the PVs...I'm remembering Chata's post about Joran's phone being at Flor's.

Remember a few weeks back,IIRC it was Kermit who put up pics of the bank and I think what was Charles Croes place right next door. Maybe Paulus went to see Charles on the Monday to make a phone and it's records disappear.

By there way...there is a pay phone at the Racquet Club...credible witness...testified before a judge.

Something up with these phones though for sure...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 09, 2008, 01:05:08 PM
COLUMBO.....Security guards in black, insurance policy, maybe she drowned, road some of which is not paved, taken to another part of the island, Wyndham/Westin, small island and everyone should know...there's a lot of connections here....it all sounds familiar...so what happened to her...I read Leta was seen in the casino and then that was apparently retracted....not sure which path...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 09, 2008, 02:10:55 PM
OOPS!  Forgot to add if the story of Paulus' cell phone being found behind the fisherman's huts area is true...then Paulus lost it when he was back there with Joran.  Either picking him up or when they were looking for a fish trap.  Maybe Joran had daddy's cell phone in his pocket too. (which I doubt) Why is Sander's missing phone so important? Because it was lost too.  So we have two cell phones lost...Sander's and Paulus'. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. MOO


I took it that way at first too Lala's, but the guy said he dialed the last number and Paulus answered. that would mean it wasn't poppa's phone. My thought as to why he had Anita's is that he didn't want his checked.

Very possible there was a cell found because of all the questions about cells in the PVs...I'm remembering Chata's post about Joran's phone being at Flor's.

Remember a few weeks back,IIRC it was Kermit who put up pics of the bank and I think what was Charles Croes place right next door. Maybe Paulus went to see Charles on the Monday to make a phone and it's records disappear.

By there way...there is a pay phone at the Racquet Club...credible witness...testified before a judge.

Something up with these phones though for sure...

Paulus might answer if Joran was the last person to dial it and say perhaps he told Val to log in and check something on the computer or was calling daddy for help with Paulus own phone. There are...were..cell records on that phone...unless it's the throw away type nefarious people use to commit crimes.  Just thinking here.  If the phone's last call was to Paulus and it is a legit story...that is a BIG clue.  Paulus would only call his own home with his own phone for just a handful of reasons.  Joran on the other hand might call for the same reasons.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 09, 2008, 02:12:08 PM
COLUMBO.....Security guards in black, insurance policy, maybe she drowned, road some of which is not paved, taken to another part of the island, Wyndham/Westin, small island and everyone should know...there's a lot of connections here....it all sounds familiar...so what happened to her...I read Leta was seen in the casino and then that was apparently retracted....not sure which path...

You lost me here...who is Leta? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 09, 2008, 02:46:32 PM
COLUMBO.....Security guards in black, insurance policy, maybe she drowned, road some of which is not paved, taken to another part of the island, Wyndham/Westin, small island and everyone should know...there's a lot of connections here....it all sounds familiar...so what happened to her...I read Leta was seen in the casino and then that was apparently retracted....not sure which path...

You lost me here...who is Leta? 

The woman missing from St Maarten...didn't you follow COLUMBO'S clue? I think he's trying to tell us the same thing has happened again, but I'm not sure what happened.
Was she kidnappend, sent off the island? I know I read that she made it to the casino, but I think that was retracted and haven't followed it closely the last week or so? Another gone without a trace...Leta, Natalee and Amy...makes you wonder...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 09, 2008, 06:25:03 PM
DOH!!  I knew that.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 09, 2008, 06:29:13 PM
COLUMBO.....Security guards in black, insurance policy, maybe she drowned, road some of which is not paved, taken to another part of the island, Wyndham/Westin, small island and everyone should know...there's a lot of connections here....it all sounds familiar...so what happened to her...I read Leta was seen in the casino and then that was apparently retracted....not sure which path...


while of gold bricks
the road is not paved

Westin Aruba was Wyndham
"The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys"

DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played (by PVDS)

DirtyHand is the key and may leave soon to avoid attention from the cowboys and the fort


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 09, 2008, 06:43:51 PM
link was moved:

http://www.zebrabot.com/zbvideo/?cat=1


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 09, 2008, 07:32:03 PM
Mum
Do you remember the conversation about Ruffner Page from the NAH thread a few weeks ago? HI daughter is Virginia and there was speculation that she would have been the most likley target if there was a planned kidnapping? Could you use your magical powers and find out about this again for me?  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 09, 2008, 08:26:40 PM
Mum
Do you remember the conversation about Ruffner Page from the NAH thread a few weeks ago? HI daughter is Virginia and there was speculation that she would have been the most likley target if there was a planned kidnapping? Could you use your magical powers and find out about this again for me?  TIA

Lala's...here's the link...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2539.180


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 10, 2008, 08:15:36 AM
Mum:

Did they? Or, didn't they?

http://sxmophile.blogspot.com/2008/02/false-alarm-in-leta-lynn-cordes-case.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 10, 2008, 08:35:40 AM
Mum:

Did they? Or, didn't they?

http://sxmophile.blogspot.com/2008/02/false-alarm-in-leta-lynn-cordes-case.html


Morning COLUMBO....I will check...I have been looking at Simian's posts of 6/24...Paulus had been detained, but not much is on the Discovery Log which probably means that those statements were not given to the Kalpoe lawyers. Found 2 PVs...Joran and Satish...and it's all about Freddy...was he the 5th and the singing card? His statements always seem to match relevent dates....were the 'film' charges a kind of deal and then nothing happened...something is up with Freddy.....for darn sure..

Link to statements for 6/24

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/index.htm

Going back to that now COLUMBO....lots of thoughts on it last night and this morning....will try and see where you're taking me first.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 10, 2008, 08:48:44 AM
lol.......the body I mean.....think the polis, who dispatched several units, found one? or not?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 10, 2008, 08:52:10 AM
Mum:

Did they? Or, didn't they?

http://sxmophile.blogspot.com/2008/02/false-alarm-in-leta-lynn-cordes-case.html



MO...same as in Aruba...they did...way too many coincidences...even the female on the next to last link reminded me of our friend Arlene...same words, same story...different island...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 10, 2008, 08:55:41 AM
even included the poison notes:

saying....many disappear down there when they find out that they can have a much better life, or something to that effect


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 10, 2008, 08:58:00 AM
wonder if FBI will get tapes, guestlists.......just a hunch......DirtyHand......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 10, 2008, 09:35:11 AM
COLUMBO...Did they allow the FBI to help?...as I said a little out of the loop on this lately, but last I saw they hadn't responded to the FBI

Any idea where Freddy fits?  Per Joran's book on 6/3 it was already decided that Freddy would get Joran a new pair of shoes....He's all over that book everywhere....wasn't it Freddy that ALE let Joran call about something?...A bit fuzzy on this as I know he called Deepak re what Nat was wearing.

The cell phone...possibly a throw away...per book...Joran said that Natalee was on the phone the entire time in the casino....and I recall a post from the front page discussing the casino video where it was said that Nat was on the phone. Personally I can't see her with a phone at C&Cs,but I'm just throwing it out there. Maybe she borrowed Paulus' phone in the casino...those darn phones just won't go away.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 10, 2008, 09:47:31 AM
I've never looked closely at that......my recollection is that he was brought in on an issue related to the past, possibly for motive or alibi stuff


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 10, 2008, 10:08:47 AM
I've never looked closely at that......my recollection is that he was brought in on an issue related to the past, possibly for motive or alibi stuff

LOL...Freddy always has my attention....August arrest with the rearrest of the Kalpoes was to do with the underage filming. Jossy said he was detained early to do with a false alibi or so he was told and the press was never notified. Marianne Croes, slip or not, he was detained from 6/9. I suspect he may have been the A.B. questioned in April 2006 when GVC was arrested...Aaron Batzis...

The shoes being discussed on 6/3 is a little strange as IIRC Dompig announced the shoes way later.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 10, 2008, 10:11:17 AM
I saved this post from yesterday on the Natalee Holloway thread and didn’t want anyone to miss it.

Private Eye…Reply #723 on: Today at 06:45:33 PM »
   
 In Aruba, the Arubans are the recipient of money from the drug lords for smuggling and money laundering. The Dutch controlling the police and the courts are aware of the corrpution, even the specifics. The local Dutch have blackmailed Rudy and the others into not prosecuting in exchange for not blowing the whistle on Rudy, and Rudy controll the prosecutors. The prosecutors assemble the evidence, present it, and decide whether to proceed. They also are the ones who ship evidence to Holland to be examined. So Joran CANNOT EVER BE PROSECUTED IN ARUBA.

 Rudy could care less about Joran, would give him up in a second, but he can't, for fear of being exposed by the local Dutch. That is why Rudy publicly exclaimed that HE WAS NOT AWARE THAT JORAN WAS GOING TO BE RE-ARRESTED, SO THAT THE DUTCH WOULDN'T FIRE BACK AT HIM. THAT IS WHY MOS TOOK ACTION WHEN RUDY WAS AWAY FROM ARUBA. HOLLAND NOW SEES THIS, BUT WITH THE EVIDENCE ALREADY BEING CLEANSED, CAN DO LITTLE.

But Rudy can organize an out of court settlement for Joran, and that is what we are watching. IMO.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 10, 2008, 10:24:13 AM
Whew!  I am behind again trying to catch up.  Life gets in the way often at my house. 


The FBI was very limited.  They obtained very little to nothing in the way of information from ALE.  Beth has stated that before.  I am surprised they even have the blood/chocolate evidence and at that I am suspicious if it is the genuine thing. So I would say NO. The FBI was left out for the  most part.

Freddy is the 5th suspect.  As much as I have wanted it to fit others it doesn't fit as well as it does with Freddy, given what info we have at this time.  If there is even a 5th suspect. Just because Simian says it does not make it so.  I do however, think Simian had some inside info...not always on the up and up, but he/she did have a connection either feeding him/her info or was right there in the thick of things.   Same with Shockthemonkey...inside info. 

Shango?  I have given up on that one...I just keep shaking my head.  Did we ever find out Boeti's birthday? Did we locate out December guy? Just wondering.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 10, 2008, 10:31:23 AM
I saved this post from yesterday on the Natalee Holloway thread and didn’t want anyone to miss it.

Private Eye…Reply #723 on: Today at 06:45:33 PM »
   
 In Aruba, the Arubans are the recipient of money from the drug lords for smuggling and money laundering. The Dutch controlling the police and the courts are aware of the corrpution, even the specifics. The local Dutch have blackmailed Rudy and the others into not prosecuting in exchange for not blowing the whistle on Rudy, and Rudy controll the prosecutors. The prosecutors assemble the evidence, present it, and decide whether to proceed. They also are the ones who ship evidence to Holland to be examined. So Joran CANNOT EVER BE PROSECUTED IN ARUBA.

 Rudy could care less about Joran, would give him up in a second, but he can't, for fear of being exposed by the local Dutch. That is why Rudy publicly exclaimed that HE WAS NOT AWARE THAT JORAN WAS GOING TO BE RE-ARRESTED, SO THAT THE DUTCH WOULDN'T FIRE BACK AT HIM. THAT IS WHY MOS TOOK ACTION WHEN RUDY WAS AWAY FROM ARUBA. HOLLAND NOW SEES THIS, BUT WITH THE EVIDENCE ALREADY BEING CLEANSED, CAN DO LITTLE.

But Rudy can organize an out of court settlement for Joran, and that is what we are watching. IMO.





My post from January 31, 2008:
This is not going to be a bombshell...it's going to be a scapegoat scenario....Janet I think you may be right...case closed...again...Joran confessed to her dying accidently while he was there...he panicked...dumped her body...lost his shoes...it's all about Joran...no one else...

provide the scapegoat...cowboys go home happy...dirty hand stays hidden...only one teepee falls...back to One Happy Island... I am feeling sick all over again.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 10, 2008, 10:51:33 AM
Good morning Lala's....been reading all over this morning....and still don't know which path to follow....except for Freddy.....just not sure were he fits...heck he was questioned as much as J2K....

Been looking at Simian's posts as to regards your request, maybe that path better fits the 'boyfriend from earlier in the week, drinking for free and at the tables all week'.

Lots of visitors in the wee hours, probably due to different time zones, but we had as many guests as the other room....



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 10, 2008, 11:22:25 AM
Do we know if Natalee and her friends ever visited Moomba's?  Champions? Choose A Name?  I have only a few of the 302's.  Maybe they are there, I just don't see them in ICD thread.

Do we know for certain that Deepak actually made a stop at a bar after he left CnC?  I need to go back and read what Deepak says.  No other reason to stop at another bar except for a small number of things...my thoughts...

> buy another drink
> buy drugs of some kind
> inform a person of something or make arrangements for something

What do you think Mum?









Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 10, 2008, 11:29:57 AM
Deepak's 6/9 PV:

A friend of mine came walking up to me. His name is Eli and I don't know his last name. He used to me in my class at the MAVO/BAVO. Eli talked to me for about five to ten minutes. Eli then walked away. When I turned around Satish and Joran were nowhere to be seen. They hadn't even told that they were leaving. I looked for them for a short while, but hadn't found them. I was in the bathroom for a little while. I have no patience to look. After the bathroom I looked around somewhat. I walked past the bar, past the glass section where the "Carlos & Charlies" souvenirs of "Carlos & Charlie" are sold to the outside. When I was walking outside, I could hear the announcement that it was the last opportunity to buy alcohol. That is always announced before closing. I walked to my car. My car was the only one parked in the back of the parking lot. I went and sat in my car to wait for Satish and Joran. I had no more money left on my pre-paid phone to call them. I was listening to the radio and was trying to adjust the sound. The car door on the right front door was opened. I looked up and saw that it was Satish. Satish sat down next to me. Then the back car door opened. Joran got into the car. He got in on the right side of the car and sat down behind Satish. The girl had also got into the car through the back car door on the left side. She sat down behind me in the car. I greeted her. I said to her: "Hi" She greeted me back and had told me her name. I immediately forgot her name. I had no problem with the fact that she was sitting in the car. It wasn't the first time that I had girls in my car that were on vacation and dropped them off at hotels.


I wonder if there is a PV from Eli?  Anyone know?

Didn't Deepak say he didn't speak to Natalee in another PV?

Deepak played taxi often...for tourists.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 10, 2008, 11:34:20 AM
Same 6/9 Deepak PV:

During that time the girl stuck her head out of the car and yelled something. I had not understood what she had shouted. I looked into the direction she had been yelling to. I saw a group of people standing there, there were both boys and girls there. It was a group of more than ten people. I assumed that they belonged with her group. One of the boys responded and walked towards us. I hear the boy say: " What are you doing there. Are you crazy, get out of the car.". She didn't want to get out. I hadn't responded. I kept on driving at walking pace and stopped my car at the zebra crossing. I had done this because I thought it would be better if she went with her friends. To prevent problems because her friends clearly didn't want her coming with us. To your question as to what I mean by problems, I can state the following. The kind of problem that I have now gotten into. People would think that she would have gone with us against her will. She was more drunk than she had been previously.

Deepak knew the plan all along. He also knew she was drugged by now... wonder how he will explain that in the civil suit?  MOO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 10, 2008, 11:40:19 AM
Mum this one is for you...

Deepak 6/10 PV:

To your question whether or not we pick up girls when we go for example to "Carlos & Charlies", I can state the following. Yes, we from time to time pick up girls there.

To your question whether these are local girls or tourists, I can state the following. They are tourists.
To your question as to who is the one who makes the first move towards the girls we are going to pick up, I can state the following. It usually is Joran or another friend with the name Freddy Zedan.

Joran and Freddy are the two that work the tourists.  Did someone say 5th suspect?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 10, 2008, 11:43:19 AM
Do we know if Natalee and her friends ever visited Moomba's?  Champions? Choose A Name?  I have only a few of the 302's.  Maybe they are there, I just don't see them in ICD thread.

Do we know for certain that Deepak actually made a stop at a bar after he left CnC?  I need to go back and read what Deepak says.  No other reason to stop at another bar except for a small number of things...my thoughts...

> buy another drink
> buy drugs of some kind
> inform a person of something or make arrangements for something

What do you think Mum?













Did you read Anna's post that both Tyler and I bought over on page 1 of the new thread this morning? Wish I knew who they were talking about.

I have been going over the PVs looking for certain things, will check Deepak's again, but I thought his lawyer may have mentioned a stop.

Then there is Joran saying they went to another bar in C&Cs.

We only have two 302s, I'm not sure if BFN has more. There is mention of the MB'ers going down to Choose-A-Name, not sure if it stayed opened later or if they were looking for stragglers. But they knew about the place.

J2Ks talk about the yards and throwing them away...always assumed they came from C&Cs, but if they got them later that would mean that Natalee was probably drugged later. And it's shortening up the timeframe.

Did they say they were followed immediately after leaving C&Cs? I read about the other car this morning in J's book and he said he thought they wanted to race. I thought it was further away from the club.

PVs....lots of answers to questions about phones and cars....makes me think ALE knew about both. Why would they want to know what Jaime drives if he wasn't even there....hmmmmmm? Clue...they know there is another car....IN THE OTHER CAR!!!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 10, 2008, 11:55:54 AM
I have always thought it strange that he was out with Satish and Deepak, if I'm remembering right, both Saturday and Sunday night and that Jaime and Freddy were not around. He stated he went with 2Ks once a week.

All I have seen of Freddy's PVs are what's in that book and who's to say whats true....all it is to me is contradictions of what Freddy was told, when and where....that is why I asked if Freddy could have been singing!

OH...but everyone told Freddy everything...not Joran...I wonder why?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 10, 2008, 12:25:15 PM
I wonder why they would questions the Diamond's International guy so long after...this is closer to when GVC was arrested.

http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/Statements_timeline.htm

Is this Booti?

Xiavier Elias Naar



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 10, 2008, 03:25:06 PM
I wonder why they would questions the Diamond's International guy so long after...this is closer to when GVC was arrested.

http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/Statements_timeline.htm

Is this Booti?

Xiavier Elias Naar



I think that is Boeti's last name...Greta would know. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 10, 2008, 03:29:09 PM
Something else I have wondered...why did they interrogate Freddy in 2006 as a suspect?  I was under the impression he was a witness...2005 he was a witness....2006 he was a suspect. hmmmmmm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 10, 2008, 05:24:45 PM
I wonder why they would questions the Diamond's International guy so long after...this is closer to when GVC was arrested.

http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/Statements_timeline.htm

Is this Booti?

Xiavier Elias Naar



Yes, that is Boeti


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 11, 2008, 05:22:51 AM
I wonder why they would questions the Diamond's International guy so long after...this is closer to when GVC was arrested.

http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/Statements_timeline.htm

Is this Booti?

Xiavier Elias Naar



Yes, that is Boeti


Thanks Klaas...I thought it was. I was looking for the Eli that Lala's mentioned that Deepak talked to at Charlies.

Joran also bought someone a drink that night...may have been from a PV of Satish.

Lala's...******* posted last night that it was a slip by David Kock that Deepak stopped at another bar...did not confirm Choose-a-name.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 11, 2008, 05:54:28 AM
Something else I have wondered...why did they interrogate Freddy in 2006 as a suspect?  I was under the impression he was a witness...2005 he was a witness....2006 he was a suspect. hmmmmmm


Lala’s…thanks for reminding of this….we were discussing Freddy’s arrests one night and I came up with …sometime between 6/17 and 6/23, August 2005 arrest with the Kalpoes, Feb. 2006 and the questioning for 6 hours with GVC…from the A.B.

I could not recall where the Feb 2006 came from until you posted the above.

I have since learned that Marianne Croes stated that Freddy was detained from 6/9/2005.  IMHO he was a suspect at some point in 2005 by the van der Sloot/Arambatzis in the associations column of the Time Log.

Interesting that GVC and A.B. were bought in only four days after the Dutch re-enactment. A tip maybe….

I’ve been trying to work out if the Discovery Log Timeline is a request for documents from the Natalee Holloway case ONLY or could possibly be requesting statements from other cases.

Very Important… if these documents are from Natalee’s case ONLY then Freddy is clearly a suspect in Natalee’s case…..more than once….

My opinion from the Log and all the other entries….ALL connected to Natalee’s case….which would make Freddy a suspect. (And a protected one at that)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 11, 2008, 06:36:19 AM
From Joran's 8/8 PV...Freddy's relatives....who, what, where?????


The suspect was informed once again of the statements given by his friend Freddy and Freddy’s nearest relatives.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 11, 2008, 10:15:48 AM
From Joran's 8/8 PV...Freddy's relatives....who, what, where?????


The suspect was informed once again of the statements given by his friend Freddy and Freddy’s nearest relatives.



Well, Freddy did live just around the corner from Joran.  So maybe they were trying to verify Freddy's alibi for that night.  Remember he was the first person suggested as the sleep over friend.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on February 11, 2008, 10:29:05 AM
LaLa,

Suppose JVdS is telling the truth about using the pay phone at the Marriott.

Why use a pay phone? -----  To call your drug dealer?

Who was JVdS drug dealer? ---- Lorenzo?



Joran had a cell phone, or didn't he ?
Fishy story to use the pay phone, unless he did not want the call on record ? Aruba should have records of calls made on their pay phones, I would think ?

I still think that Joran killed Nat at his home, and his Dad helped him dispose of her body.


What a nice surprise! Lake Erie Princess!

I hope all is well with you.

We all still stand with the girl ::MonkeyHaHa::

Lala's -- Mum -- and all. Thanks for the perseverance and not letting the thread get derailed  ::MonkeyCool::

BB I agree with your comment about 15 pages back  ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

I read the posts live as they were happening as well. And when you read in context -- no deep research -- quick response. Simian didn't talk in 'code' until confronted by Shango.

And yet they both KNEW what the other was referring to....even though 2.5 years later, we still don't  ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

Sounds like they both used the same 'dictionary'  ::MonkeyLaugh::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 11, 2008, 10:31:23 AM
From Joran's 8/8 PV...Freddy's relatives....who, what, where?????


The suspect was informed once again of the statements given by his friend Freddy and Freddy’s nearest relatives.






Well, Freddy did live just around the corner from Joran.  So maybe they were trying to verify Freddy's alibi for that night.  Remember he was the first person suggested as the sleep over friend.


I see....it was a simple party at his house...he was there the 'whole' time

Saint Alibi....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 11, 2008, 11:23:49 AM
Yes, Mum.  That may be the reason to talk to the family too...you would need to make the alibi...so tight...so tight.

Sharon
Concerning the pay phone.  Regardless of whether Joran walked up to the Marriott area and used a pay phone or not...we do have records of him using a cell phone that night.  He calls Deepak...he makes a call at 2:26 AM near the Mickey D's.  So you can't deny that Joran had a cell phone in his possession. He texts Deepak that night. 

One thing that would be interesting to know did the cell phone we are just learning about...was that Paulus' cell phone?  Or was that just the last number called on that phone?  Did we ever find out who's phone it was?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 11, 2008, 11:41:01 AM
Yes, Mum.  That may be the reason to talk to the family too...you would need to make the alibi...so tight...so tight.

Sharon
Concerning the pay phone.  Regardless of whether Joran walked up to the Marriott area and used a pay phone or not...we do have records of him using a cell phone that night.  He calls Deepak...he makes a call at 2:26 AM near the Mickey D's.  So you can't deny that Joran had a cell phone in his possession. He texts Deepak that night. 

One thing that would be interesting to know did the cell phone we are just learning about...was that Paulus' cell phone?  Or was that just the last number called on that phone?  Did we ever find out who's phone it was?

I believe it is being checked out....LOL

I believe also it was found up by the lighthouse and just finished reading some PVs....the family eanted to go there that night and Paulus said absolutely NOT and so did Deepak....hmmmm

First paragraph for COLUMBO...

Deepak 6/13


One of the family members said in English to Joran that he was lying/not telling the truth and that they saw Joran and the girl on the videocamera's of the Windham casino earlier that afternoon. Then I asked like if she was missing or that they saw her on the camera.

Then Joran's father got angry and said to the man in English: *You are out of your jurisdiction" (loosely translated by reporting officer: You are outside of you jurisdiction). The police then calmed the situation down. After that the family wanted us to go with the police to show them the route we drove. Joran's father refused. I also said no. After that the police officers said it was nonsense to drive out to the light house at that moment in time.


Sharon...great to see you




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 11, 2008, 12:01:20 PM
Yes, Mum.  That may be the reason to talk to the family too...you would need to make the alibi...so tight...so tight.

Sharon
Concerning the pay phone.  Regardless of whether Joran walked up to the Marriott area and used a pay phone or not...we do have records of him using a cell phone that night.  He calls Deepak...he makes a call at 2:26 AM near the Mickey D's.  So you can't deny that Joran had a cell phone in his possession. He texts Deepak that night. 

One thing that would be interesting to know did the cell phone we are just learning about...was that Paulus' cell phone?  Or was that just the last number called on that phone?  Did we ever find out who's phone it was?

I believe it is being checked out....LOL

I believe also it was found up by the lighthouse and just finished reading some PVs....the family eanted to go there that night and Paulus said absolutely NOT and so did Deepak....hmmmm

First paragraph for COLUMBO...

Deepak 6/13


One of the family members said in English to Joran that he was lying/not telling the truth and that they saw Joran and the girl on the videocamera's of the Windham casino earlier that afternoon. Then I asked like if she was missing or that they saw her on the camera.

Then Joran's father got angry and said to the man in English: *You are out of your jurisdiction" (loosely translated by reporting officer: You are outside of you jurisdiction). The police then calmed the situation down. After that the family wanted us to go with the police to show them the route we drove. Joran's father refused. I also said no. After that the police officers said it was nonsense to drive out to the light house at that moment in time.


Sharon...great to see you




Now I am even more confused about all of it. Thanks for you help! (sarcasm included for free). LOL

I guess what I am wondering is...well, actually I don't even know what I was wanting to know...Let me think about all this. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 11, 2008, 12:06:31 PM
Sharon
Sorry, I was rude.  Good to see someone besides our normal crew in here.  Thanks for the compliment..it is hard to stay on track these days.  Come by more often.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 11, 2008, 12:12:26 PM
Well I'm wondering if Natalee was somewhere up by that lighthouse at that time, or signs that she had been there. Or maybe as posted early on, the road was too rough for Deepak's car and that would have been obvious from that night. Their lie would have been uncovered right away.

Trying to find info on the Sloots vehicles, as Ks were asked if both Joran and Val drove, bet jeeps could get up by the lighthouse and rocks though...


Lala's...sometimes I confuse myself....LOL...quite often actually!!!





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 11, 2008, 12:25:26 PM
I have often wondered about this statement made by Satish June 10th.  WE now know this is a made up story, but look how Satich is trying to fit the pieces together without success...it's full of holes and lots of errors. Interesting how Satish weaves this story...he was out of the loop.

"I was informed of my rights. I am still going to stand by the statement I made as a witness at the police station in Bubali. I do remember now that my brother had told me. Last week Friday my brother told me that the man Steve had seen us when we dropped off Natalee Holloway that night at the Holiday Inn Hotel. My brother Deepak told me that Steve had said to him that he had seen us. I myself do not know Steve. My brother thinks that Steve works at Digicel. I don't personally know Steve. I have never seen Steve. According to my brother, Steve had told him that he had dropped off people at the Holiday Inn on Monday May 30th at approximately 01.45 hours. My brother has also told me that Steve was also in Carlos & Charlies that night. My brother also told me that Steve had seen us coming out of Carlos & Charlies with the girl Natalee.

On that particular day it was going from Sunday to Monday and it wasn't busy at that moment in time. The traffic wasn't busy either at that moment in time. It was approximately 01.15 hours when we came out of Carlos & Charlies. When we were leaving Carlos & Charlies, we immediately walked towards the car. I think that the girl briefly talked to her friends that were standing in front of Carlos & Charlies. Joran was with her, and I think he too briefly waited for her. According to my brother Steve was supposed to work that night and he had quietly slipped out to go to Carlos & Charlies. My brother did not tell to me in what kind of car Steve drives. My brother also told me that Steve had also seen that the girl Natalee had fallen down from the car, and that Joran had gone to help her get up. According to me Steve had told my brother that he was dropping off tourists at the Holiday Inn Hotel that night. I did not ask my brother what kind of car Steve drives and he also did not tell me that.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 11, 2008, 12:39:37 PM
I have often wondered about this statement made by Satish June 10th.  WE now know this is a made up story, but look how Satich is trying to fit the pieces together without success...it's full of holes and lots of errors. Interesting how Satish weaves this story...he was out of the loop.

"I was informed of my rights. I am still going to stand by the statement I made as a witness at the police station in Bubali. I do remember now that my brother had told me. Last week Friday my brother told me that the man Steve had seen us when we dropped off Natalee Holloway that night at the Holiday Inn Hotel. My brother Deepak told me that Steve had said to him that he had seen us. I myself do not know Steve. My brother thinks that Steve works at Digicel. I don't personally know Steve. I have never seen Steve. According to my brother, Steve had told him that he had dropped off people at the Holiday Inn on Monday May 30th at approximately 01.45 hours. My brother has also told me that Steve was also in Carlos & Charlies that night. My brother also told me that Steve had seen us coming out of Carlos & Charlies with the girl Natalee.

On that particular day it was going from Sunday to Monday and it wasn't busy at that moment in time. The traffic wasn't busy either at that moment in time. It was approximately 01.15 hours when we came out of Carlos & Charlies. When we were leaving Carlos & Charlies, we immediately walked towards the car. I think that the girl briefly talked to her friends that were standing in front of Carlos & Charlies. Joran was with her, and I think he too briefly waited for her. According to my brother Steve was supposed to work that night and he had quietly slipped out to go to Carlos & Charlies. My brother did not tell to me in what kind of car Steve drives. My brother also told me that Steve had also seen that the girl Natalee had fallen down from the car, and that Joran had gone to help her get up. According to me Steve had told my brother that he was dropping off tourists at the Holiday Inn Hotel that night. I did not ask my brother what kind of car Steve drives and he also did not tell me that.


I do recall some posts early and the links don't work anymore that in fact Satish was a friend on Steve Croes' tickle site. My early impressions of Steve's arrest was that he was brought in to keep him quiet about who was really at Charlies that night.

Flame me, but I've always thought one of the Kalpoes less guilty, and thought it was Satish based on the timelines of the very early PVs...I think Freddy switched places....

Trying to find 'another car'....have you seen pictures of the Sloots blue jeep? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 11, 2008, 01:09:35 PM
From Joran's 8/8 PV...Freddy's relatives....who, what, where?????


The suspect was informed once again of the statements given by his friend Freddy and Freddy’s nearest relatives.

Freddy's first alibi was that he was on Curacao at a famly reunion
& his relative's backed him up on this lie.

Boeti...Exactly what did he claim to see again?
Looked like he was looking for $ for his info...
Maybe they should have looked beyond his addictions.
He just nay have seen something!
He WAS in the RIGHT place at the right time.....




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 11, 2008, 01:11:30 PM
This from CNN when GVC and A.B. were questioned..hmmm...

GOLDBAND: I`ll abstain from comment on that one Nancy. Geoffrey von Cromvoirt, he of course, caught the 15th of this month, set free on the 24th and, of course, now this new person, we don`t have a photo of this person, Nancy, all we have are two initials and now just realized three hours ago, these are the right initials, A.B., six hours is how long this person was held for.

GRACE: Back to Jossy Mansur, the director and editor of "Diario Magazine." Jossy you`re there on the scene. What possible connection was there between A.B., the last catch and release and the investigation of Natalee Holloway?

MANSUR: You know, I can`t imagine what kind of connection it could have. I know that this person that they`ve arrested and questioned for six hours has a Web site in which he appears, in which you`ll find pictures of Joran and many other girls. Maybe there is some kind of a connection that the police want to know or the prosecution as to what degree does he know these people and what would he know about the Holloway case itself?

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/24/ng.01.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 11, 2008, 01:29:51 PM
IMHO I think when J2K say the "lighthouse" they are really meaning Arashi Beach...Which was probably one stop they made after leaving Joran's apt. while looking for THE party...A.B. and GVC (& Guido?) would have been there.
Next stop...Moomba Bar/beach where "something bad happens"....Where Paulus shows up to "take care of things"...I doubt Joran really knows what happened after that.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 11, 2008, 01:30:46 PM
From Joran's 8/8 PV...Freddy's relatives....who, what, where?????


The suspect was informed once again of the statements given by his friend Freddy and Freddy’s nearest relatives.

Freddy's first alibi was that he was on Curacao at a famly reunion
& his relative's backed him up on this lie.

Boeti...Exactly what did he claim to see again?
Looked like he was looking for $ for his info...
Maybe they should have looked beyond his addictions.
He just nay have seen something!
He WAS in the RIGHT place at the right time.....





Thanks Debra....the alibi...so tight.

I don't think I have heard the Curacao family reunion before...but figured his family needed to be pinched.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 11, 2008, 01:52:26 PM
Where is Janet where you need her? LOL  It would be interesting to see what written record we have (news stories, PV) as to Koen's where abouts and also Freddy's the night in question. 

Koen=supposedly at a family gathering.
Freddy=supposedly at a family gathering.

Why was Sander still on the island if this was family?  I think I know why...there never was a Gottenbos family gathering that Koen or Sander atteneded.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 11, 2008, 01:57:06 PM
Where is Janet where you need her? LOL  It would be interesting to see what written record we have (news stories, PV) as to Koen's where abouts and also Freddy's the night in question. 

Koen=supposedly at a family gathering.
Freddy=supposedly at a family gathering.

Why was Sander still on the island if this was family?  I think I know why...there never was a Gottenbos family gathering that Koen or Sander atteneded.


Back to the beginning...again....and see what is still out there...

IMO....No family reunions.....just the pimp family reunion...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 11, 2008, 03:17:38 PM
IMHO I think when J2K say the "lighthouse" they are really meaning Arashi Beach...Which was probably one stop they made after leaving Joran's apt. while looking for THE party...A.B. and GVC (& Guido?) would have been there.
Next stop...Moomba Bar/beach where "something bad happens"....Where Paulus shows up to "take care of things"...I doubt Joran really knows what happened after that.


Was it Arashi that Charles Croes went to and was told 'that's Joran's car'? TIA

Someone posted yesterday that maybe the phone was washed up on the beach, but I don't think a cell would be in very good condition after that. DH's went in the pool and POOF!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 11, 2008, 04:57:19 PM
I never had a cell phone that did anytime in a liquid substance that survived in working order....ever again.  LOL

Key here would be who owned that phone...right now unless we find that out we can't go any further with that scenario.

Actually it appears that everyone seems to have decided that the only thing that works is what Joran has said.  Just because Joran says it doesn't make it so.  He is clearly hiding another person in all this and removing the Kalpoes from any responsibility.  Now, given what we know...does that make any sense? 

Too many things unexplained:

The 4AM pickup by Paulus.
The trips to the bank that seemed important to Paulus.
Kalpoes cleaning their car in the wee hours of the morning when Satish had school the next day.
Freddy needing to tell the truth.
Anita wanting to know what Freddy had said to the police.
Joran clearly wanting to toss the Kalpoes under the bus for years and now they are in the clear??
Guido being arrested for heavy battery.
Sander's phone missing.
A mystery man sitting next to Natalee in the casino video.
Deepak's alibi Steve Croes.
Satish asking "how's the girl"?
Deepak talking about "that chit".


I could go on, but there are too many things unresolved for this to be just Joran involved.  I wish that cell phone's owner identity was known.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 11, 2008, 05:14:52 PM
One more very strange thing to explain, but given how things work on Aruba maybe Joran has the power to rearrange time.

Joran makes a 2:26 AM phone call near the Mickey D's.
A witness places Joran and Deepak in a car near the Raquet Club from 2:30 to 3:00 AM.
Yet....Deepak was at home before Joran's 2:26 AM phone call which I thought was made to Deepak. 

So the conclusion here would be that the witness was mistaken...at least about who was in the car with Joran or Deepak went back to Joran and the witness saw them closer to 3:00 AM.  That might fit.





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 11, 2008, 05:44:38 PM

Hello Monkeys.

Alot have been descovert from Shango and Simian.

To understand what has happend on that they, you have to work with both authors side by side.

The shango Author left alot of his clues in poems and Music, Clues of a mystery that delves into the hidden worlds of the Freemasons and other secret societies. Among the questions they must tackle are why an young inocent girl would be the target of a horrifying ritual killing, and how the murderer is using the Dutch LAW to get his way. Do the answers lie within a series of paintings by Leonardo da Vinci? Underneath it all is a shocking secret that some would do anything to protect. 

One of the most interesting poems is this one

# Shango Says: June 30th, 2005 at 2:13 am *****NAT *******
All Secrets are hidden in Plain View



The traffic's backed for miles
On these quiet suburban roads
While the rubber necking strangers
Are dying to see these victims wounds
Cause he's all alone

With his notebooks and poems
In this open grave where he wrote
All of his secrets
That became his lyrics
With no intent to show anyone

[Chorus:]
And we give, and we give
But it's all for nothing
Its all for nothing
We try to resist,
But I gave everything
And its all for nothing

So the panic sets and cycles
His mind for restless sleep
And while the blood-sucking leeches
Contaminate every line they read
Just leave him alone in this dark room

This white sheet, his tightly wrapped cocoon

Cause its no secret
I f***ing need this
Like I don't need anyone

[Chorus x2]

It's like I'm falling asleep with my eyes open
shutting down and off the lights
cause after all of this it's all or nothing
still I wouldn't try to ...

I've fallen asleep with my eyes open
(and you'll lie to all your friends)
(about sights you never saw)

Shutting down and off the lights
(and you'll preach to all the press)
(about what you don't know at all)

Cause after all of this it's all or nothing
Still I wouldn't try to fight

So let me drown so I can breathe again
I'm through choking and suffocating


On alter egos and alter motives
Which weigh you down and take control of
The way you are and the things that you need
The life you live and the dreams that you dream
Distort and blur all in slow motion

They broke you down and now your broken
(Spill the ink and spill your guts again)*16 times in the background*
And it's sadder than the saddest movie
I ever saw but without the beauty
So I stopped watching, I stopped caring
I've lost all interest and I stopped wearing
These plastic smiles, I've washed my hands clean
Forget that you forgot about me
And I'm living life, the big city feeling
It's better than suburban dreaming
Living off the friends that hate you
Talk shit on me like I don't know who
My real friends are anymore, no,
I dont know you anymore
And it's sadder than the saddest movie
I ever saw, but without the beauty
So I stopped watching, I stopped caring

Spill the ink and spill your guts again!

I've fallen asleep with my eyes open
(and you'll lie to all your friends)
(about sights you never saw)

Shutting down and off the lights
(and you'll preach to all the press)
(about what you don't know at all)

Cause after all of this it's all or nothing
Still I wouldn't try to fight


These lyrics is telling how Joran Is and what has happend that night.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 11, 2008, 06:17:16 PM
Caps
Up to this point in time I was able with much effort to follow you...now I am really lost.  I can't see this in Shango at all.  You have a much more creative thought process than I do. 

I see Simian as very simple...relating what was happening at the time within the ALE.  Shango is still a mystery on some things, but he's not that difficult to understand.  Don't get me wrong, I know nothing about Shango.  I have only been here for almost three years racking my brain trying to make it fit.  Some days you win....some days you lose.  I guess today I will say I lost...my mind over Shango.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 11, 2008, 07:55:46 PM
CapsLockWizard:  What is the name of that song & where it is from?

Wouldn't you say Shango is someone "in the know" of both worlds,
a writer, a creative person, a music producer (reggae), wealthy, "connected"?

One straight path
to the house of Rave,...................Very well could be Canashitu caves
                                                The first "official search"
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin.........Samson Investments (Paul Brough &)
XTC
DNA.............................................."genetics"/evidence

Canashitu caves are right above the bus stop Paulus says he met the bus....



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 11, 2008, 08:48:48 PM
Shango: "All secrets are hidden in Plain View..."

Dan Brown's "Da Vinci Code"
Secrets Hidden in Plain View

Da Vinci's paintings contain hidden levels of meaning that go well beneath the surface of the paint. Many scholars believe his work intentionally provides clues to a powerful secret…a secret that remains protected to this day by a clandestine brotherhood of which Da Vinci was a member.

Isn't Lorenzo van Rijn a descendant of Rembrandt van Rijn? (sin, XTC, DNA)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 11, 2008, 08:58:03 PM
I haven't done Shango in a long time but was just reviewing with a friend.
Her suggestion: When reading Shango, think of all music references as relating to drugs.

Maybe you've done this? I haven't read through the thread but it makes sense to me.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 11, 2008, 09:07:54 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:50 pm ******** NAT ******
Are insects conned into entering Venus Flytraps?


(Here Shango is telling us not to follow speculation but follows the facts. He put these clues in for those that read his riddle to understand that you can not mix fact with speculation.....he said this is all in 2005, but look what are we doing today, Joran sing a impossible story and the world follows.....).

The pictures are beautiful.  The stories are entertaining.  No human lifetime could watch the whole sequence, so the interpretations are very much model-driven and riddled with difficulties.  Certain ones claim this or that feature supports their pet theory (see Finagle’s Second Law).  Others claim it turns the pet against its owner.

    Evolutionists seem drawn to violence as a creative process.  Though biological evolution is many orders of magnitude more implausible than stellar evolution, it still seems that theories of star and planet formation, though dealing in the hard-science realms of physics and chemistry, still require many ad hoc elements to work.  Note Feigelson’s remark about the “complexities of planet formation” – they are many, and serious.

    Telescopes bring us light from these objects that, though it left long ago, is received in our present.  The light gives us information about color, temperature, wavelengths, magnetic fields, velocities and a few other things that were going on when the photons left the object.

It is “tempting” to “hop aboard the boat” of this or that speculation, but boats without firm planks tend to leak.  A “firm theoretical anchor” makes a leaky boat leak even faster. (Shango is trying to tell here in 2005 to look at the facts, the missing right show shoe, McDonald's pickup, The Times of these events. recoded facts that can be used to follow logic.)

The Moral of this story: keep the data distinct from the stories.  Collect watertight planks before setting out to sea.  The next publication could well reveal today’s Dutch Armada of blustering hype sinking under the violent onslaught of new observations.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 12, 2008, 05:03:53 AM
Caps
Up to this point in time I was able with much effort to follow you...now I am really lost.  I can't see this in Shango at all.  You have a much more creative thought process than I do. 

I see Simian as very simple...relating what was happening at the time within the ALE.  Shango is still a mystery on some things, but he's not that difficult to understand.  Don't get me wrong, I know nothing about Shango.  I have only been here for almost three years racking my brain trying to make it fit.  Some days you win....some days you lose.  I guess today I will say I lost...my mind over Shango.  :roll:


I peeked in last night and was lost...after coffee this morning....I'm still lost.....

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on February 12, 2008, 09:51:28 AM
Record Album

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Holloway/2w3n788_th.jpg)


Shango's Literary Depth

Marvel Comics

Try Issue 141/#4

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Holloway/raveironfist4.jpg)


Art Appreciation 101 might also be in order.

Source of many rumors including Freddie at family reunion and others:  Try Scubajap posting at RWV.  Wealth of misinformation in the early days.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 12, 2008, 09:56:29 AM
Thought this interesting when I came across it this morning. It had a familiar ring to it. the top post was from a forum thread and Simian's from the front page.

Reply #875 on: June 18, 2005, 07:53:23 PM »   
 
Come on guys how long did it take the whole federal security establishment to find Chandra Levy under their noses in DC, about the size of aruba, over a year?  If you can't find her you can't find her.  That is a possible outcome and a more likely one with each passing day.  Want to boycott DC too?
 

Simian’s first 3 posts I believe….
218.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xxBy the way, they found Levy’s remains a full year after she went missing. In a place where they did search numerous times. Give the authorities a chance. Maybe this girl doesn’t want to be found. Posted Jun 17, 5:23 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “BREAKING NEWS: 4th Person Arrested in Natalee Holloway case (CORRECTION NO 5th PERSON)” | View Post

219.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xxThey found them…do you know what happened? Condit has been cleared… Posted Jun 17, 5:20 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “BREAKING NEWS: 4th Person Arrested in Natalee Holloway case (CORRECTION NO 5th PERSON)” | View Post

220.      Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xxWhy would anybody take this girl for the purpose of Sex Slavery? If you look up where Aruba is you will notice our proximity to South America. A lot of pretty girls and a lot of poverty. Why take an North American girl and sell her in Colombia? People don’t just dissappear. And if Amy Bradley was the last girl to dissappear in Aruba and Natalee after 7 years, I would say that these human traffickers really suck. By the way This thing will be solved. Maybe after this all the North Americans bashing Aruba here should focus on Chondra Levy. Nobody knows what happened to her and it’s been awhile. Maybe you can start a “Boycott Central Park” on-line petition.



Morning Anna...nice to 'see' you...

Caps I'm working on your 'facts'...I have a grand total of 3....if you count the shoes...some think he was wearing them during the Greta interview....




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 12, 2008, 09:57:31 AM
 :smt102


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 12, 2008, 10:08:57 AM
:smt102

LOL...is that for my benefit or Caps?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 12, 2008, 10:18:04 AM
:smt102

LOL...is that for my benefit or Caps?

.....Anna's post.... :smt102




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 12, 2008, 10:18:47 AM
Thanks Anna.....Guess I'll follow the music and scubajap....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 12, 2008, 11:13:24 AM
Thanks Mum this is what I was looking for. My question is this, maybe you will know.  Note the date I highlighted and tell me does that mean he was arrested at that time too or what do you think?  If it means June 2005 as I read it, that is the unknown person that was rumored in all the news reports we couldn't put our finger on at the time.  The local Aruban posters kept saying they heard it on the radio, but if GVC is the person at the time...I missed it until now. What do you say? 


MumInOhio

   
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #729 2/11 -
« Reply #356 on: Today at 05:52:59 AM »
   
Lala's...here's the info on GVC and the tourist...maybe I should post in the Shango thread....I know you'll see it there....LOL

Prev. posted Feb.5th.

Here's the article about GVC...I just read at reihlworld that Nat's friends had seen her talking to GVC see bottom of page.

Interview With Cromvoirt Acquaintance
Though currently studying abroad, I was able to establish contact and do a brief phone interview with a young American girl acquainted with current detainee in the Natalee Holloway investigation, Geoffrey van Cromvoirt.

She is still somewhat shaken by news of his arrest, particularly as it was June 9th, 2005, the night Joran Van der Sloot and the two Kalpoe brothers were arrested, when she met GVC at Carlos and Charlies. She was able to provide the day of the week, Thursday, which matches with the night of the three boys arrests. After speaking with her, I've no reason to doubt her veracity.

GVC was alone at Carlos and Charlies that night keeping mostly to himself. She could only remember him saying hello to one other person passing by that night in the club. After some initial eye contact, it was she who approached GVC. He immediately appeared to open up.

One item of possible interest, he told her that he worked during the day taking tourists out on a Catamaran. While I have no way of ascertaining it was the same catamaran, I do recall photos taken by the Mountain Brook students showing that they did take such a trip.

GVC struck her as something of a self promoter, constantly talking about himself, his many connections and his family's supposed wealth. She also recalled seeing images of some famous individuals he had stored in his cell phone, noting that GVC did not appear with those people in said pictures. Still, he insisted they were friends.

On another night, she may have been less receptive to the seemingly brash young man, but she found him attractive, she was on vacation and the two eventually danced. She indicated that there were no drugs involved, though both were drinking. At some point, GVC offered her a ride to her hotel and a male friend of the young woman went along.

GVC did apparently brag about being involved with security, trying to exert some pressure on a hotel guard to acknowledge who he was. The guard apparently failed to acknowledge him in any significant manner. She believes he was driving a jeep at the time, possibly blue and that he also mentioned a recent or pending purchase of a truck, color unknown.

Back at her hotel, it was decided that he would leave behind his ID and possibly some other wallet contents with her friends as security before the two went back out alone together. They spent approximately a half an hour or so together, primarily on the beach. The only potentially unusual thing she noticed during their time on the beach was that he might have been a bit nervous, looking about - at one point claiming he saw a security guard coming. She could not see a guard.

After some time on the beach his cell phone started ringing but he did not answer it. She believes it rang several times in succession, possibly as many as seven times. When she inquired about the calls, he stated that it was his Mother and that he had to get home. He kept reiterating, he had to go. She was puzzled at this as she believed him to be 19 years old at the time.

After a night of being extremely talkative, mostly about himself, she did eventually ask him in a casual way about the Natalee Holloway case. She feels very strongly that it was at that point his demeanor significantly changed. He almost completely stopped talking while the two were walking, swiftly now, back to her hotel.

She asked a few different questions ... if he knew of the case, of those involved, what was it that he thought. But he did not answer any of those questions, or change the topic. He mostly just stopped talking at all. They returned to her hotel, a friend brought down his things and that was the last she saw of him until his recent arrest. She felt he all but took off running, likely related to the phone calls, as he left.

Later after leaving the island, the interaction did leave her with a strange feeling, mostly because of his sudden silence when the topic of Natalee Holloway came up. Unsure if it meant anything, or not, eventually she did call the FBI. She gave them what information she could as regards the encounter, much of which I have now relayed here.

It remains unclear what, if any connection GVC has to the Holloway case. But at least one individual who spent some time with the boy soon after the disappearance was troubled enough about his demeanor simply talking about the case to make a call to the FBI.

I have agreed to keep her identity secret.


------------------------


According to what Holloway's friends have told authorities, the blond-haired, blue-eyed van Cromvoirt was seen with their classmate after she left van der Sloot - the pals say they saw them in the Holiday Inn casino together. But when the casino's video surveillance tapes were turned over to police, investigators could find no sign of Holloway and van Cromvoirt, the source noted.

Van Cromvoirt's father is the security expert in charge of video surveillance at the hotel.

Aruban authorities are also scrutinizing a surveillance tape taken earlier on May 30 that shows Holloway arguing with a light-haired young man in a jewelry store in the Wyndham Hotel, according to the source.






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 12, 2008, 11:34:17 AM
Lala's...I'm really not sure....I wonder how far back in the thread all those posts are. I'm sure we put them all here. The 11th. stands out to me as possibly 2 arrests. I think you and ******* posted about that on the other thread and I posted it here. I just found a whole lot on GVC last week and I think I saved it, if I can find it, that's where I got this from.

A blue jeep...hmmmm Anita had one of those too...

I will do a print page and see what I can find....I don't think I started posting here until about page 28.....shouldn't be too bad....LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 12, 2008, 11:43:16 AM
Lala's...here is the link...you'll need to scroll down...it's in date order and there's a few on GVC with a topic or two intermingled....

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/natalee_holloway/index.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 12, 2008, 11:48:28 AM
........a herring or not, one more time for fun......

++++++++++++


Shango Says: July 27, 2005 9:54 pm

I see from afar with the eyes of god.

Shango has always said
the DirtyHand hid the SlanderFoot.

The hand has long fingers
which still caress the tender lamb
tucked away at manger
awaiting his fate.

Cowboys, don't step on the Herrings!
The SlanderFoot is whispering
with the Gods of Babylon.

Has not the DirtyHand walked in many circles?
Amongst the lions.....
And even now he summons help
from the Gods of Babylon.

Pleading for keys
to remain hidden
so that doors
may remain closed.

For how many can see
the strings of marionettes
as they are subtley
pulled by the gods?

The Arawaks whisper fervently...
Heads will roll
the fires which were dim
have brightened

the sleights of DirtyHand
have not sleightened....

but are still
at the root of this evil tree
and all of the "Plants"

If the DirtyHand
can't be washed
the SlanderFoot
must be amputated

For how can a lamb walk
without a foot?

Because I have revealed
many truths
Lions undiscovered
still pace nervously
in dark places

waiting to pounce.

And the consorts of Babylon
maintain contact with corrupt emissaries...


Research has shown scarcity or non-existence of Orisha Dopplegangers
Have faith in what has been attributed to me
The Ether remains my realm thanks to Obatala!

I have done my best
to illuminate the path
so do not beseige me
for vestiges of humanity

Nothing is seen with the eyes of god
if the cowries are not thrown

What Mary thought
was MagicTransport
was nothing but
Tragic Mansport

I see from afar with the eyes of God

I must feed the messengers
for I am Ojuobah
and thence Shango! 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 12, 2008, 12:27:35 PM
What Mary thought
was MagicTransport
was nothing but
Tragic Mansport

BB…I am not very good at deciphering the riddle and have read some thoughts on this along time ago as to do with drugs, but this came to me because of recent discussions on Deepak leading Natalee out by the arm:

Magic transport…she’d missed her ride back to the hotel with her friends after going back into Charlies, confused. Magically….a cab driver – Deepak – appears to take her back….and it turned into a gang rape…Man sport


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 12, 2008, 12:34:05 PM
What Mary thought
was MagicTransport
was nothing but
Tragic Mansport

BB…I am not very good at deciphering the riddle and have read some thoughts on this along time ago as to do with drugs, but this came to me because of recent discussions on Deepak leading Natalee out by the arm:

Magic transport…she’d missed her ride back to the hotel with her friends after going back into Charlies, confused. Magically….a cab driver – Deepak – appears to take her back….and it turned into a gang rape…Man sport

Mum I happen to agree with your thoughts about magic transposrt. Many happen to feel though that the above passages I have quoted are from a fake Shango.  ::MonkeyNoNo::  Whom ever it was was very very good MOO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 12, 2008, 01:05:47 PM
What Mary thought
was MagicTransport
was nothing but
Tragic Mansport

BB…I am not very good at deciphering the riddle and have read some thoughts on this along time ago as to do with drugs, but this came to me because of recent discussions on Deepak leading Natalee out by the arm:

Magic transport…she’d missed her ride back to the hotel with her friends after going back into Charlies, confused. Magically….a cab driver – Deepak – appears to take her back….and it turned into a gang rape…Man sport

Mum I happen to agree with your thoughts about magic transposrt. Many happen to feel though that the above passages I have quoted are from a fake Shango.  ::MonkeyNoNo::  Whom ever it was was very very good MOO


How do we know which ones are fake? I have read 'Only David left the den alive' was a fake as well....we don't seem to have a list of them. Or a list of the real ones should I say...

Speaking of David....Lala's ...when I get a chance I will see if GVC fits David in Joran's book....No reason to think that Marco is the only name change...oh I forgot Luis and Joshua....Columbian and Venezuelan....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 12, 2008, 01:51:48 PM
Apparently Klaas checked the URL's of these various posters in the past, and the one that wrote the lines I quoted above was different than that of the Shango poster.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 12, 2008, 03:02:17 PM
Just posted by ******* in the other thread:

Posted by Barthol on FOK. He keeps insisting that GVC is not involved. He posted this video of GVC(In Dutch),says it is not very interesting but I did not know GVC has done any interviews.   
-----------------------------------------
Former suspect Geoffrey Cromvoirt responds to broadcast De Vries

     * Publication: 04/02/08 22:08
     * Last update: 04/02/08 22:56

The family of Cromvoirt Aruba looked on with very different eyes to the revelations in the broadcast of Peter R. De Vries.

Until recently son Geoffrey was also a suspect in the case of missing Natalee. And even though he's never met before. Rapporteur Ilse van Wingerden looked into when the family saw how the matter by Peter R. De Vries from the paintings were done.

http://tinyurl.com/35abcz



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 12, 2008, 03:15:09 PM
Just posted by ******* in the other thread:

Posted by Barthol on FOK. He keeps insisting that GVC is not involved. He posted this video of GVC(In Dutch),says it is not very interesting but I did not know GVC has done any interviews.   
-----------------------------------------
Former suspect Geoffrey Cromvoirt responds to broadcast De Vries

     * Publication: 04/02/08 22:08
     * Last update: 04/02/08 22:56

The family of Cromvoirt Aruba looked on with very different eyes to the revelations in the broadcast of Peter R. De Vries.

Until recently son Geoffrey was also a suspect in the case of missing Natalee. And even though he's never met before. Rapporteur Ilse van Wingerden looked into when the family saw how the matter by Peter R. De Vries from the paintings were done.

http://tinyurl.com/35abcz



So what prompted the arrest?  What made him so nervous?  I doubt he's involved also, just need to eliminate him.  BTW I don't think Koen was at a family anything off island and I don't think Freddy was in Curacao.   Koen and Sander had school the next day. I suppose none of this matters now, given Joran has confessed to everything save for Daury's disposal.  At this point it's all Joran and no one else involved...very pretty package all tied up with ribbon sitting at the door of the prosecutor.  How nice. :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 12, 2008, 03:26:10 PM
Just posted by ******* in the other thread:

Posted by Barthol on FOK. He keeps insisting that GVC is not involved. He posted this video of GVC(In Dutch),says it is not very interesting but I did not know GVC has done any interviews.   
-----------------------------------------
Former suspect Geoffrey Cromvoirt responds to broadcast De Vries

     * Publication: 04/02/08 22:08
     * Last update: 04/02/08 22:56

The family of Cromvoirt Aruba looked on with very different eyes to the revelations in the broadcast of Peter R. De Vries.

Until recently son Geoffrey was also a suspect in the case of missing Natalee. And even though he's never met before. Rapporteur Ilse van Wingerden looked into when the family saw how the matter by Peter R. De Vries from the paintings were done.

http://tinyurl.com/35abcz



So what prompted the arrest?  What made him so nervous?  I doubt he's involved also, just need to eliminate him.  BTW I don't think Koen was at a family anything off island and I don't think Freddy was in Curacao.   Koen and Sander had school the next day. I suppose none of this matters now, given Joran has confessed to everything save for Daury's disposal.  At this point it's all Joran and no one else involved...very pretty package all tied up with ribbon sitting at the door of the prosecutor.  How nice. :roll:


LOL...I think I read in that last link that it was a tip from the Dutch TV show about a car parked at his house...am guessing a white one if that's what they used in the show.


I keep seeing that post of the arrests on 6/9....one was a son of a judge another the son of a lawyer....

Was it ever determined that van der Straten had a son or not?

Pita said she thinks Max Arendz, Lorenzo's Max, went to Holland...wonder if he had scratches....LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on February 12, 2008, 03:35:45 PM
Apparently Klaas checked the URL's of these various posters in the past, and the one that wrote the lines I quoted above was different than that of the Shango poster.

Given the posting time of July 27, 2005 9:54 and the two valid Shango posts below, I believe the one at 9:54 was not the same poster.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder
The gods are talking

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:57 pm
Outsiders brought into the Arawak tribe walk in many circles, nameless


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 12, 2008, 03:41:42 PM
Lala's...I don't know if I would discount him just yet...the phone call...his family taking off to Holland..looks like Papa had a good business....and it looks like he was a friend of Steve Croes..I bet he went to ISA...and Daddy was interrogated as well...I'm sure I saw vcb in that cartoon...and there was something else...I'll think of it later...LOL

Another suspect with the initials of "EB" (recently corrected to "AB") was arrested and questioned for six hours before being released according to news sources. In addition, Steve Croes denied knowing GVC during an interview with The Lineup. Of course he wasn't shown the picture which shows a different story, even though the picture was shown on The Lineup at the completion of his interview. Several people savvy with altered pictures contend that there are several things which athenicate the picture, including that alterations would show up if the image is placed in a text editor such as Notepad and the original picture was uploaded in August 2005 and shows that it has not been changed since then.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 12, 2008, 03:48:31 PM
thanks truthseeker...I appreciate your response...some of you have been doing this since forever.....

I'm still stuck on what is hidden and across the pond....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on February 12, 2008, 03:54:12 PM
thanks truthseeker...I appreciate your response...some of you have been doing this since forever.....

I'm still stuck on what is hidden and across the pond....

Here's something else to consider about some of the Shango posts.  The following was posted by the nickname Robalo33:

J’aime mieux passer les temps avec un femme comme vous Simian

Meaning: I like to better spend times with a woman like you Simian


Simian tu no hablo nada de veridad todavia, ‘ta siempre la misma vaina con usted cabron?

Meaning: Simian your I do not speak to anything of veridad todavia
ta always the same case with you cabron?


At 11:48 on June 27 Shango uses the term austrolopithecus.  At 02:10 am on June 28 Robalo33 uses that very same term, yet does not attribute it to Shango.  He immediately posts again at 02:13 am to attribute the use of this term to Shango.

Seems Shango may have posted under more than one name.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 12, 2008, 04:54:27 PM
thanks truthseeker...I appreciate your response...some of you have been doing this since forever.....

I'm still stuck on what is hidden and across the pond....

Here's something else to consider about some of the Shango posts.  The following was posted by the nickname Robalo33:

J’aime mieux passer les temps avec un femme comme vous Simian

Meaning: I like to better spend times with a woman like you Simian


Simian tu no hablo nada de veridad todavia, ‘ta siempre la misma vaina con usted cabron?

Meaning: Simian your I do not speak to anything of veridad todavia
ta always the same case with you cabron?


At 11:48 on June 27 Shango uses the term austrolopithecus.  At 02:10 am on June 28 Robalo33 uses that very same term, yet does not attribute it to Shango.  He immediately posts again at 02:13 am to attribute the use of this term to Shango.

Seems Shango may have posted under more than one name.


Of course Shango and Simian were multiple personalities.  Why do you think they are so hard to understand.  Just look at Caps posts about Shango and Simian...btw Simian and Merian were one and the same or at the same computer posting on different dates.  I have no doubt...remember our candidates for Shango are as varied as our candidates for Dirty Hand. 

Across the pond...well depends on who you ask...I always thought they meant Netherlands...but to some Americans it means Britain and to others it might mean the USA. To an Aruban is would have a different meaning than to someone posting from Florida...hint, hint.  Now, I wonder what Caps thinks it means?  I wonder who Caps thinks is Dirty Hand?  I want someone to prove to me that van der Straaten is NOT dirty hand.  So we can say Babalu was wrong in that assumption.  I am rambling again. Sorry.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on February 12, 2008, 04:54:59 PM
........a herring or not, one more time for fun......

++++++++++++


Shango Says: July 27, 2005 9:54 pm

I see from afar with the eyes of god.

Shango has always said



The hand has long fingers
which still caress the tender lamb
tucked away at manger
awaiting his fate.

Cowboys, don't step on the Herrings!
The SlanderFoot is whispering
with the Gods of Babylon.

Has not the DirtyHand walked in many circles?
Amongst the lions.....
And even now he summons help
from the Gods of Babylon.

Pleading for keys
to remain hidden
so that doors
may remain closed.

For how many can see
the strings of marionettes
as they are subtley
pulled by the gods?

The Arawaks whisper fervently...
Heads will roll
the fires which were dim
have brightened

the sleights of DirtyHand
have not sleightened....

but are still
at the root of this evil tree
and all of the "Plants"

If the DirtyHand
can't be washed
the SlanderFoot
must be amputated

For how can a lamb walk
without a foot?

Because I have revealed
many truths
Lions undiscovered
still pace nervously
in dark places

waiting to pounce.

And the consorts of Babylon
maintain contact with corrupt emissaries...


Research has shown scarcity or non-existence of Orisha Dopplegangers
Have faith in what has been attributed to me
The Ether remains my realm thanks to Obatala!

I have done my best
to illuminate the path
so do not beseige me
for vestiges of humanity

Nothing is seen with the eyes of god
if the cowries are not thrown

What Mary thought
was MagicTransport
was nothing but
Tragic Mansport

I see from afar with the eyes of God

I must feed the messengers
for I am Ojuobah
and thence Shango! 

Talks like Palus will be knocked off if Joran is not prosecuted.  That is if he is slanderfoot.  Slanderfoot may be a grandparent in Holland.   If PVS is slanderfoot they will take him out if Joran keeps being protected.  That is what it sounds like.       jack blue
the DirtyHand hid the SlanderFoot.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 12, 2008, 05:26:49 PM
thanks truthseeker...I appreciate your response...some of you have been doing this since forever.....

I'm still stuck on what is hidden and across the pond....

Here's something else to consider about some of the Shango posts.  The following was posted by the nickname Robalo33:

J’aime mieux passer les temps avec un femme comme vous Simian

Meaning: I like to better spend times with a woman like you Simian


Simian tu no hablo nada de veridad todavia, ‘ta siempre la misma vaina con usted cabron?

Meaning: Simian your I do not speak to anything of veridad todavia
ta always the same case with you cabron?


At 11:48 on June 27 Shango uses the term austrolopithecus.  At 02:10 am on June 28 Robalo33 uses that very same term, yet does not attribute it to Shango.  He immediately posts again at 02:13 am to attribute the use of this term to Shango.

Seems Shango may have posted under more than one name.


Of course Shango and Simian were multiple personalities.  Why do you think they are so hard to understand.  Just look at Caps posts about Shango and Simian...btw Simian and Merian were one and the same or at the same computer posting on different dates.  I have no doubt...remember our candidates for Shango are as varied as our candidates for Dirty Hand. 

Across the pond...well depends on who you ask...I always thought they meant Netherlands...but to some Americans it means Britain and to others it might mean the USA. To an Aruban is would have a different meaning than to someone posting from Florida...hint, hint.  Now, I wonder what Caps thinks it means?  I wonder who Caps thinks is Dirty Hand?  I want someone to prove to me that van der Straaten is NOT dirty hand.  So we can say Babalu was wrong in that assumption.  I am rambling again. Sorry.


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play (the game) in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders (dirty hands)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon (note: Arawaks=LE)
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak
Many pioneers have settled with the tribe

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon
the girl knew this
Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.
But not to satiate desire. (He is the link-between gardeners & Arawaks)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 12, 2008, 05:48:54 PM
JVDS:
So she takes a shot of Bacardi 151. She takes it, and right away she goes, Whoo, bam — 151 proof, you know, 151 proof, that is. That`s 75 percent alcohol. So she asks for a chaser. She`s drunk, really drunk. What I was thinking, I`ll just take the girl with me. We`ll go (DELETED). So I say, What do you want to do?? You want to go to your hotel? I`ll just go with her to her hotel. That`s the best thing to do. She says, No, no, no, I don`t want to go to my own hotel.    ::MonkeyEek::

MagicTransport? Casablanca had a car as a grand prize.......

Young babylonians and Shivas don't build sandcastles.......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 12, 2008, 05:51:39 PM
Arawak is ______________. 

Everyone please fill in the blank. Thanks. Just asking...no trick question here.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 12, 2008, 05:56:17 PM
arawaks-polis
Arawak King - Oduber
Arawak Nation - govt
Arawak DirtyHand-(the "fetid" Arawak King maybe?-he'd have an escort, no?)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 12, 2008, 05:57:04 PM
arawak-polis
Arawak-federale?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 12, 2008, 06:00:10 PM
persona non grata:


Babylon needs to allow one sacrifice to keep DirtyHand hidden



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 12, 2008, 06:50:46 PM
........a herring or not, one more time for fun......

++++++++++++


Shango Says: July 27, 2005 9:54 pm

I see from afar with the eyes of god.

Shango has always said



The hand has long fingers
which still caress the tender lamb
tucked away at manger
awaiting his fate.

Cowboys, don't step on the Herrings!
The SlanderFoot is whispering
with the Gods of Babylon.

Has not the DirtyHand walked in many circles?
Amongst the lions.....
And even now he summons help
from the Gods of Babylon.

Pleading for keys
to remain hidden
so that doors
may remain closed.

For how many can see
the strings of marionettes
as they are subtley
pulled by the gods?

The Arawaks whisper fervently...
Heads will roll
the fires which were dim
have brightened

the sleights of DirtyHand
have not sleightened....

but are still
at the root of this evil tree
and all of the "Plants"

If the DirtyHand
can't be washed
the SlanderFoot
must be amputated

For how can a lamb walk
without a foot?

Because I have revealed
many truths
Lions undiscovered
still pace nervously
in dark places

waiting to pounce.

And the consorts of Babylon
maintain contact with corrupt emissaries...


Research has shown scarcity or non-existence of Orisha Dopplegangers
Have faith in what has been attributed to me
The Ether remains my realm thanks to Obatala!

I have done my best
to illuminate the path
so do not beseige me
for vestiges of humanity

Nothing is seen with the eyes of god
if the cowries are not thrown

What Mary thought
was MagicTransport
was nothing but
Tragic Mansport

I see from afar with the eyes of God

I must feed the messengers
for I am Ojuobah
and thence Shango! 

Talks like Palus will be knocked off if Joran is not prosecuted.  That is if he is slanderfoot.  Slanderfoot may be a grandparent in Holland.   If PVS is slanderfoot they will take him out if Joran keeps being protected.  That is what it sounds like.       jack blue
the DirtyHand hid the SlanderFoot.




LALA where is this last Shango peace come from. Mine ends on June 30, 2005

How come I never saw this peace...and it go all the way in July 27, 2005

I have ask for the complete Shango riddle and I see now it is not complete.

I need the rest of it... THe July 27,  2005 is easy to read


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 12, 2008, 07:50:56 PM
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We have 317 state-of-the-art slot machines, all with comfortable seats for extended play. Also, for your enjoyment, we offer complimentary beverage and cocktail service. Our slot machines include a variety of models and coin denominations (5 cents to $25) which appeal to every player, including electronic video games and the newest technology, multi-game touch screens. We also have reelers, crisscrosses, multiples, progressive/specialty machines, and video poker.



Our table games include:

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Two craps tables, the exciting, fast-paced, action-packed dice game
Three double-zero roulette tables
One baccarat table plus one mini-baccarat table
Three Caribbean stud poker tables, Let It Ride and three-card poker
We also feature a special [liONS] high limit exclusive area[for high ROLLers], with an additional roulette table, three blackjack tables, one baccarat table and a Caribbean stud poker table.

The Ca$ino Bar offers specialty drink favorites  ::MonkeyConfused::and live [FOLLOW THE] music which will keep the rhythm of the night pumping ::MonkeyCool::. You can also enjoy watching your favorite sports teams on our multiple-screen television.

For those of you that are "Slot Players", be sure to inquire with our Casino Promotions Desk about our special MVP membership club. We offer a daily promotion which is specially designed to give you the most probabilities to walk away with your pockets filled with merchandise, cash, restaurant discount coupons, weekend stays and even a new car[BUT THE ROAD IS NOT PAVED]!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 12, 2008, 08:28:43 PM
Capslock - there were some Shango impersonators after June 30th.  I'm not sure those are real Shango.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on February 12, 2008, 08:36:55 PM
Sharon
Sorry, I was rude.  Good to see someone besides our normal crew in here.  Thanks for the compliment..it is hard to stay on track these days.  Come by more often.

Lala's -- not rude in the slightest.

Life has kicked in and returns my status to 'lurker' but I check in almost daily and read as much as I can.

And it is very heartwarming to see others keep things rolling. I know you can understand the sentiment. I feel so badly when I can't post 'Boycott Aruba' a few times a day ::MonkeyLaugh:: But I know others are here keeping the fires lit for Beth.  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on February 12, 2008, 09:08:27 PM
Lala's -- lost the part of my post about the phones.

And I agree. Joran had his phone. But I think there is a real tangled web about the phones.

Lot's of questions in the PV's about cell phone numbers, too. A lot in Joran's pv's. Jaime. Jaime's sister, I think. Sander. I thought it was wierd. But maybe it's how they identiy eachother ::MonkeyConfused::

Lots of wierd stuff with the phones.

A a girl is in critical distress so you guy find a pay phone to call a friend to disappear her? He has no condom, but he has change? He knows this guys number by heart?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Icehawk on February 12, 2008, 09:15:22 PM
One straight path

to the house of Rave,

while of gold bricks

the road is not paved,

answers mysterious lie within

magical letters which spell sin

XTC DNA


Has  this been decoded by anyone?

Thanks Icehawk.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 12, 2008, 09:16:44 PM
........a herring or not, one more time for fun......

++++++++++++


Shango Says: July 27, 2005 9:54 pm

I see from afar with the eyes of god.

Shango has always said



The hand has long fingers
which still caress the tender lamb
tucked away at manger
awaiting his fate.

Cowboys, don't step on the Herrings!
The SlanderFoot is whispering
with the Gods of Babylon.

Has not the DirtyHand walked in many circles?
Amongst the lions.....
And even now he summons help
from the Gods of Babylon.

Pleading for keys
to remain hidden
so that doors
may remain closed.

For how many can see
the strings of marionettes
as they are subtley
pulled by the gods?

The Arawaks whisper fervently...
Heads will roll
the fires which were dim
have brightened

the sleights of DirtyHand
have not sleightened....

but are still
at the root of this evil tree
and all of the "Plants"

If the DirtyHand
can't be washed
the SlanderFoot
must be amputated

For how can a lamb walk
without a foot?

Because I have revealed
many truths
Lions undiscovered
still pace nervously
in dark places

waiting to pounce.

And the consorts of Babylon
maintain contact with corrupt emissaries...


Research has shown scarcity or non-existence of Orisha Dopplegangers
Have faith in what has been attributed to me
The Ether remains my realm thanks to Obatala!

I have done my best
to illuminate the path
so do not beseige me
for vestiges of humanity

Nothing is seen with the eyes of god
if the cowries are not thrown

What Mary thought
was MagicTransport
was nothing but
Tragic Mansport

I see from afar with the eyes of God

I must feed the messengers
for I am Ojuobah
and thence Shango! 

Talks like Palus will be knocked off if Joran is not prosecuted.  That is if he is slanderfoot.  Slanderfoot may be a grandparent in Holland.   If PVS is slanderfoot they will take him out if Joran keeps being protected.  That is what it sounds like.       jack blue
the DirtyHand hid the SlanderFoot.




LALA where is this last Shango peace come from. Mine ends on June 30, 2005

How come I never saw this peace...and it go all the way in July 27, 2005

I have ask for the complete Shango riddle and I see now it is not complete.

I need the rest of it... THe July 27,  2005 is easy to read


This was not known to be a genuine Shango riddle...not my assumption. I was told that was not written here on FP but at another site.  Therefore it can not be verified as authentic.  Caps. by July everyone on the internet could speak Shango. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 12, 2008, 09:30:24 PM
arawaks-polis
Arawak King - Oduber
Arawak Nation - govt
Arawak DirtyHand-(the "fetid" Arawak King maybe?-he'd have an escort, no?)

Arawak

Main Entry:
    Ar·a·wak Listen to the pronunciation of Arawak
Pronunciation:
    \ˈa-rə-ˌwäk, -ˌwak\
Function:
    noun
Inflected Form(s):
    plural Arawak or Arawaks
Etymology:
    earlier Arwaca, Aroaca, an Arawak subgroup of 16th century Trinidad, perhaps from an Arawak name for the subgroup
Date:
    1769

1 : a member of an Indian people of the Arawakan group now living chiefly along the coast of Guyana 2 : the language of the Arawak people

Another definition of arawak:
http://www.blackstudies.ucsb.edu/antillians/arawaks.html


Arawak=local Arubans   

Straaten is mentioned by Babalu...which I realize is just a wild guess...Shango does not correct Babalu, but instead agrees only to the extent that it "opens windows". So never positive there.



Given your premise...Dirty Hand can not be anyone connected to police or government. That rules out many of the suspected dirty hands.  It rules out Jacobs, Straaten, Croes, Bernadina, etc.   So who is dirty hand?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 12, 2008, 09:32:26 PM
One straight path

to the house of Rave,

while of gold bricks

the road is not paved,

answers mysterious lie within

magical letters which spell sin

XTC DNA


Has  this been decoded by anyone?

Thanks Icehawk.

Many times...many versions.  Why don't you give it a try?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 12, 2008, 09:34:27 PM
Icehawk
I should add...most of the versions are here in the Shango thread...it would take a while to find them all.  My search capabilities are limited since the changeover.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Icehawk on February 12, 2008, 10:21:32 PM
Icehawk
I should add...most of the versions are here in the Shango thread...it would take a while to find them all.  My search capabilities are limited since the changeover.



Hi Lala'sMom.


Is this the right thread?

http://www.mcharvey.com/shango/shango.html




One straight path

to the house of Rave,

while of gold bricks

the road is not paved,

answers mysterious lie within

magical letters which spell sin

XTC DNA


Something Involing Natalee  =   sin

XTC DNA  =  ?




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 12, 2008, 11:01:22 PM
Arawak is ______________. 

Everyone please fill in the blank. Thanks. Just asking...no trick question here.

Arawak=Persons from the Caribbean
          =Native Arubians

SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?

Shango=Mafia friends
Simian=Arubian with friends in ALE

Shango is describing the "secret brotherhood" among men on Aruba

...JMO.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 05:32:21 AM
arawaks-polis
Arawak King - Oduber
Arawak Nation - govt
Arawak DirtyHand-(the "fetid" Arawak King maybe?-he'd have an escort, no?)

Arawak

Main Entry:
    Ar·a·wak Listen to the pronunciation of Arawak
Pronunciation:
    \ˈa-rə-ˌwäk, -ˌwak\
Function:
    noun
Inflected Form(s):
    plural Arawak or Arawaks
Etymology:
    earlier Arwaca, Aroaca, an Arawak subgroup of 16th century Trinidad, perhaps from an Arawak name for the subgroup
Date:
    1769

1 : a member of an Indian people of the Arawakan group now living chiefly along the coast of Guyana 2 : the language of the Arawak people

Another definition of arawak:
http://www.blackstudies.ucsb.edu/antillians/arawaks.html


Arawak=local Arubans   

Straaten is mentioned by Babalu...which I realize is just a wild guess...Shango does not correct Babalu, but instead agrees only to the extent that it "opens windows". So never positive there.



Given your premise...Dirty Hand can not be anyone connected to police or government. That rules out many of the suspected dirty hands.  It rules out Jacobs, Straaten, Croes, Bernadina, etc.   So who is dirty hand?


van der Straten was outed on 6/5 - the 2 secutity guards were arrested - and back in on 6/11 - the day everything was retracted....so the info and order to arrest the SGs came from him and Jacobs...MO only

The only appearance of van der Straten on the Time Log has to do with Wyndham where Joran, Guido, Andre and Deepak reportedly were gambling on the evening of 5/30....MO only...they were never there....Joran said they were there to create an alibi as to appear that everything was normal...again MO....the security tapes were fixed...it appears by way of van der Straten...of course with the help of Mr von Cromvoirt.

The von Cromvoirt's have been banished to The Netherlands or at least the mother has, the vcb website appears to be exactly the same as the very first time I saw it. 'Willem' is an ex cop and only moved to Aruba in 1997. Nice home, affluent family, daughter a cop, and appears a very good business. Why did GVC lawyer deny that his Dad's company had the contract for the H.I.? Is the sister a cop on Aruba still? Who now owns von Cromvoirt's company...Where's Geoffrey?...where's Willem?

The shirt, the sunglasses were rumored to belong to GVC, and that phone call from the tourist puts GVC in the mix for me....oh forgot the jeep and access to ATV's.

Why was 'Willem' interrogated early?

IMO 'Daddy' is not only covering for GVC....he is one of the 'dirty hands'.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 06:45:57 AM
Lala's -- lost the part of my post about the phones.

And I agree. Joran had his phone. But I think there is a real tangled web about the phones.

Lot's of questions in the PV's about cell phone numbers, too. A lot in Joran's pv's. Jaime. Jaime's sister, I think. Sander. I thought it was wierd. But maybe it's how they identiy eachother ::MonkeyConfused::

Lots of wierd stuff with the phones.

A a girl is in critical distress so you guy find a pay phone to call a friend to disappear her? He has no condom, but he has change? He knows this guys number by heart?

Sharon...thanks for the reminder:

She hit her head on a 'pilar' and if IIRC it was even spelt the same way...may be more useless information....but yes I believe her phone was asked about.

CACERES, Maria del Pilar Carrasquillia   – “Pilar” – Jaime’s sister


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 07:01:35 AM
thanks truthseeker...I appreciate your response...some of you have been doing this since forever.....

I'm still stuck on what is hidden and across the pond....

Here's something else to consider about some of the Shango posts.  The following was posted by the nickname Robalo33:

J’aime mieux passer les temps avec un femme comme vous Simian

Meaning: I like to better spend times with a woman like you Simian


Simian tu no hablo nada de veridad todavia, ‘ta siempre la misma vaina con usted cabron?

Meaning: Simian your I do not speak to anything of veridad todavia
ta always the same case with you cabron?


At 11:48 on June 27 Shango uses the term austrolopithecus.  At 02:10 am on June 28 Robalo33 uses that very same term, yet does not attribute it to Shango.  He immediately posts again at 02:13 am to attribute the use of this term to Shango.

Seems Shango may have posted under more than one name.


Of course Shango and Simian were multiple personalities.  Why do you think they are so hard to understand.  Just look at Caps posts about Shango and Simian...btw Simian and Merian were one and the same or at the same computer posting on different dates.  I have no doubt...remember our candidates for Shango are as varied as our candidates for Dirty Hand. 

Across the pond...well depends on who you ask...I always thought they meant Netherlands...but to some Americans it means Britain and to others it might mean the USA. To an Aruban is would have a different meaning than to someone posting from Florida...hint, hint.  Now, I wonder what Caps thinks it means?  I wonder who Caps thinks is Dirty Hand?  I want someone to prove to me that van der Straaten is NOT dirty hand.  So we can say Babalu was wrong in that assumption.  I am rambling again. Sorry.

Simian/Mirian ... one and the same or at he same computer..would lead me to believe that the same message was trying to be given...ie Freddy is the 5th. suspect...tying in the Simian's 5th suspect and Mirian's 'famous pic'. Nah...way too simple!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 07:51:12 AM
Lala's...was Simian's ISP from Florida or Aruba?  I thought Shango's was Florida, but not necessary to mean Shango was in Florida...but again I think you have said otherwise....another fuzzy brain day....

I'm still on 'across the pond'...LOL...and of course Freddy's family reunion...bet Ernesto was there....sorry, the Florida reference...I wonder where Freddy is?

Lala's when Simian says 'across the pond' as an Aruban I think he is referring to Holland or should be....but it doesn't quite fit into his posts...will ponder it some more


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 13, 2008, 09:42:11 AM
Icehawk
I should add...most of the versions are here in the Shango thread...it would take a while to find them all.  My search capabilities are limited since the changeover.



Hi Lala'sMom.


Is this the right thread?

http://www.mcharvey.com/shango/shango.html




One straight path

to the house of Rave,

while of gold bricks

the road is not paved,

answers mysterious lie within

magical letters which spell sin

XTC DNA


Something Involing Natalee  =   sin

XTC DNA  =  ?




Hey!  How did you know I was looking for that yesterday?  Actually, that is only one version.  It was the gold standard for a while...yet some differ on it now.  My interpretation is that it refers to a place.  I have made Carlos n Charlie's fit it quite well before.  Or it is a house, which could be the Sloots or another location that holds rave parties.  I think the term rave on Aruba is more or less meaning party...that supplies drugs and has lots of music. That would fit pretty much any club there.  When I get a chance I will find you some more versions.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 13, 2008, 10:20:46 AM
Lala's...was Simian's ISP from Florida or Aruba?  I thought Shango's was Florida, but not necessary to mean Shango was in Florida...but again I think you have said otherwise....another fuzzy brain day....

I'm still on 'across the pond'...LOL...and of course Freddy's family reunion...bet Ernesto was there....sorry, the Florida reference...I wonder where Freddy is?

Lala's when Simian says 'across the pond' as an Aruban I think he is referring to Holland or should be....but it doesn't quite fit into his posts...will ponder it some more

Simian=Aruba
Shango=Florida

Some Aruban posters IP appear to be in Florida and other places as well, so without someone with excellent hacker skills I doubt we can be certain...not saying that Klaas is not excellent, mind you.

One thing you might keep in mind about the "across the pond" reference is that could also mean the USA.  It could mean some of the answers are here in the U.S.  That does not necessarily mean that the answers lie in MB as some have said...it could very well mean the answers lie in places such as, oh...let's say Plantation Florida, Brickell Bay, Miami, or other places in the U.S.  Just throwing that out there to muddy the water even more. It's all from Simian's interpretation and without knowing exactly who Simian was or Simian's source, it's hard to tell for certain.

Simian is simple in explanation except that 5th suspect. Shango was cryptic, yet not as complicated as we make it.  Both were talking to an audience without any knowledge of reference.  Now, if you want it to be complicated it can be.  Keep in mind that both Simian and Shango clearly wanted to clear Joran of any wrongdoing and include Paulus.  So is there anything to it all?  Well......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 10:34:23 AM
Lala's...was Simian's ISP from Florida or Aruba?  I thought Shango's was Florida, but not necessary to mean Shango was in Florida...but again I think you have said otherwise....another fuzzy brain day....

I'm still on 'across the pond'...LOL...and of course Freddy's family reunion...bet Ernesto was there....sorry, the Florida reference...I wonder where Freddy is?

Lala's when Simian says 'across the pond' as an Aruban I think he is referring to Holland or should be....but it doesn't quite fit into his posts...will ponder it some more

Simian=Aruba
Shango=Florida

Some Aruban posters IP appear to be in Florida and other places as well, so without someone with excellent hacker skills I doubt we can be certain...not saying that Klaas is not excellent, mind you.

One thing you might keep in mind about the "across the pond" reference is that could also mean the USA.  It could mean some of the answers are here in the U.S.  That does not necessarily mean that the answers lie in MB as some have said...it could very well mean the answers lie in places such as, oh...let's say Plantation Florida, Brickell Bay, Miami, or other places in the U.S.  Just throwing that out there to muddy the water even more. It's all from Simian's interpretation and without knowing exactly who Simian was or Simian's source, it's hard to tell for certain.

Simian is simple in explanation except that 5th suspect. Shango was cryptic, yet not as complicated as we make it.  Both were talking to an audience without any knowledge of reference.  Now, if you want it to be complicated it can be.  Keep in mind that both Simian and Shango clearly wanted to clear Joran of any wrongdoing and include Paulus.  So is there anything to it all?  Well......


Hi Lala's...my problem is fitting all the posts....if I believe all that Simian says, my take on 'across the pond' would tie into other references of 'favorite passtime, hitter or slogger...I can't pick and choose...but then I wonder if Simian wasn't outed and fed false information...

And then, if Simian was fed false information, whose to say that the 5th suspect isn't part of that as well....

I wonder if we'll ever know?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 13, 2008, 10:41:27 AM
You can't fit it all...don't even try.  The comments were dependant upon the topic of conversation at the time....as I have said over and over and over....these riddles do not stand alone...they were part of ongoing conversation between many posters.  Sometimes a verse or two is simply answering a question from another poster. Take for instance the verse below..the posters were asking if TES had any luck at the Moko dump area and Simian answered them.  He is saying they got a hit of some kind.  What was the story given by the gamblers?  That is certainly not the Sloots telling them to look in that pond, now is it?

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:59 am
The cowboys’ steel and wires are screaming. The dirty water is large, deep and too wide, but they are sure there is light on their screen.
The Babylonians will be proven right. All along they were right. The story given by the gamblers might check out after all.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 10:56:56 AM
You can't fit it all...don't even try.  The comments were dependant upon the topic of conversation at the time....as I have said over and over and over....these riddles do not stand alone...they were part of ongoing conversation between many posters.  Sometimes a verse or two is simply answering a question from another poster. Take for instance the verse below..the posters were asking if TES had any luck at the Moko dump area and Simian answered them.  He is saying they got a hit of some kind.  What was the story given by the gamblers?  That is certainly not the Sloots telling them to look in that pond, now is it?

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:59 am
The cowboys’ steel and wires are screaming. The dirty water is large, deep and too wide, but they are sure there is light on their screen.
The Babylonians will be proven right. All along they were right. The story given by the gamblers might check out after all.


gamblers...could be Joran, Guido, Andres, Deepak or could be unknown gamblers asked if the young gamblers were in the casino that Monday night, could be neither...I need time to go back and read....in context...sometimes I think I read too much into these posts.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 11:40:26 AM
Lala's...I ran across this ... you asked about it a couple of pages back. Old article...interesting read.

    http://earthops.org/rus_mafia_carib.html



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Chata on February 13, 2008, 11:57:34 AM
Lala's...was Simian's ISP from Florida or Aruba?  I thought Shango's was Florida, but not necessary to mean Shango was in Florida...but again I think you have said otherwise....another fuzzy brain day....

I'm still on 'across the pond'...LOL...and of course Freddy's family reunion...bet Ernesto was there....sorry, the Florida reference...I wonder where Freddy is?

Lala's when Simian says 'across the pond' as an Aruban I think he is referring to Holland or should be....but it doesn't quite fit into his posts...will ponder it some more

Simian=Aruba
Shango=Florida


One thing you might keep in mind about the "across the pond" reference is that could also mean the USA.  It could mean some of the answers are here in the U.S.  That does not necessarily mean that the answers lie in MB as some have said...it could very well mean the answers lie in places such as, oh...let's say Plantation Florida, Brickell Bay, Miami, or other places in the U.S.  Just throwing that out there to muddy the water even more. It's all from Simian's interpretation and without knowing exactly who Simian was or Simian's source, it's hard to tell for certain.

Simian is simple in explanation except that 5th suspect. Shango was cryptic, yet not as complicated as we make it.  Both were talking to an audience without any knowledge of reference.  Now, if you want it to be complicated it can be.  Keep in mind that both Simian and Shango clearly wanted to clear Joran of any wrongdoing and include Paulus.  So is there anything to it all?  Well......



Some thoughts after looking back at some Shango I had saved from another site ... with explanations of what the riddles might mean made by a poster named RINGO.

The fly entered the trap = traps are planned, so was Natalee set up??? Was money owed???Who owed it???

Was she expecting to just have good time/fun??

Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game

dirtyhand=drug flow??? dirty feet= drug transport???
DirtyHand=main player, but who???

gods are talking=bosses of the underworld/Aruban underbelly???

lions=those who live above the law/not controlled or tamed by DirtyHAnd

will they sacrifice the Lamb or the Lion=who will DirtyHand give up??? Joran or the real bad guys??? PVdS pressure???

to make the cowboys smile=is Joran and his confession going to set things right with Americans???

Shango seems to say the boys were not on the beach with Natalee and they lost to the lions in a brutal confrontation???  Everyone knows this, but no one talks??? Why?

There was some more about the old Allegro hotel/casino(The Palace) and Wyndham hotel/casino connection, J2K being scapegoats, etc.

What is the signifcance of the mask seen in the porn video and the pic of Joran with girl and male with mask on???

I am trying to think past what we have been told.  There is more there.  What is it???
Has to be important to have so many trying to divert from the underside of the island.  This is where I think the real truth lies. 







Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 12:09:32 PM
Wow Chata!...This is great....you really should post more often...Thanks for sharing!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Chata on February 13, 2008, 12:44:58 PM
Wow Chata!...This is great....you really should post more often...Thanks for sharing!


These are not my unriddlings ... RINGO and some others did the unraveling.

I do think that more is involved and that there are things going on in Aruba that would boggle our minds.  Mine, anyway.  LOL!

My son went to the Ukraine in the late 1990's and came home telling us things that we could hardly take in.  It was all drug/mafia related.  Mum, I read your link and could only nod my head ... same stuff.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 13, 2008, 01:04:16 PM
LALA: Klaasend:

I need a list of the 2004-2005-2006 Aruba Lions Club Directors and member of the board for those years.

DirtyHand = I know how to decode this but I need the list of the names

for all who is interested in SLanderFoot, He the same person....

How to determin that is in his style of writting

Let me explain:

Take the word SLanderFoot split them apart in ( SL ander F oot)
not revers the SL with the F Letters and go get (F ander SL oot )
now take the word (FanderSLoot) and split them again in (Fan der Sloot)

The first word is (Fan) that sounds like a Van.

Now in Dutch his real name is Paul Van der Sloot. or (PVDS)

Now for DirtyHand, Shango uses an other method. Thanks to some old Lodge books that I found.

but first the name list.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 01:12:51 PM
Wow Chata!...This is great....you really should post more often...Thanks for sharing!


These are not my unriddlings ... RINGO and some others did the unraveling.

I do think that more is involved and that there are things going on in Aruba that would boggle our minds.  Mine, anyway.  LOL!

My son went to the Ukraine in the late 1990's and came home telling us things that we could hardly take in.  It was all drug/mafia related.  Mum, I read your link and could only nod my head ... same stuff.

Beth did make a short reference to Russia and North Korea in her book...I have always thought this related to the 'shock the world' comment.

I did go a couple of weeks back and find some stuff under DEA Caribbean News... there is quite a bit out there ... just need the time to find it all and read1


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 01:22:10 PM
Caps...I'm still stuck on Freddy...I know he fits in here somewhere...He's just got to be Lala's 5th Suspect ....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 13, 2008, 01:36:11 PM
Caps...I'm still stuck on Freddy...I know he fits in here somewhere...He's just got to be Lala's 5th Suspect ....


LALA: Klaasend:

If it a young man, than I also need the Junior Lions Club board members of 2004, 2005, 2006



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 01:38:59 PM
caps...do you want the whole members list or just the directors...I have 2004...all members and 2005-2005 directors

http://www.arubalions.org/Board/ALC_Board_Members_2005-2006.htm

http://www.arubalions.org/Member%20Area/member_roster_2004-2005.htm



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 13, 2008, 01:42:14 PM
Caps
Do you really think Shango mean a true Lions Club?  As in the International Lions Clubs?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 01:48:16 PM
Caps...I'm still stuck on Freddy...I know he fits in here somewhere...He's just got to be Lala's 5th Suspect ....


LALA: Klaasend:

If it a young man, than I also need the Junior Lions Club board members of 2004, 2005, 2006



I can't find a Junior Club??? This is the other link for all members

http://www.arubalions.org/Member%20Area/member_roster_2005-2006.htm

The Directors meet at the Lions Den...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 01:52:24 PM
Every time I hear Lions I think of Merian's orange regal visage....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 13, 2008, 02:06:36 PM
 No picture, No name of the board for the Aruba Lions Club.

I have someone checking the Library now...will bring it home soon.

Shango uses Music, Phonetic, letter reversal, Letter insertion, it uses the same technique of The Lodge coding style to decode his text.

By the way Shango = SaHiA NeGrO
and he must be Latin of Puerto Rican.

XTC DNA = Letter insertion and phonetic

Try it


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 02:18:16 PM
No picture, No name of the board for the Aruba Lions Club.

I have someone checking the Library now...will bring it home soon.

Shango uses Music, Phonetic, letter reversal, Letter insertion, it uses the same technique of The Lodge coding style to decode his text.

By the way Shango = SaHiA NeGrO
and he must be Latin of Puerto Rican.

XTC DNA = Letter insertion and phonetic

Try it


Caps ... some of the posters on the main thread have pictures...yesterday there was 2 posted...one of Arends and one of Arendz and their sons. If you know who you are looking for there is a good chance someone has it.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 02:20:30 PM
Caps....I found this...

http://www.arubalions.org/Board/board_of_directors.htm



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 13, 2008, 02:31:39 PM
Caps...I'm still stuck on Freddy...I know he fits in here somewhere...He's just got to be Lala's 5th Suspect ....


LALA: Klaasend:

If it a young man, than I also need the Junior Lions Club board members of 2004, 2005, 2006



I can't find a Junior Club??? This is the other link for all members

http://www.arubalions.org/Member%20Area/member_roster_2005-2006.htm

The Directors meet at the Lions Den...


The list at the website is just a small list.

There is a Junior Lions Club Aruba. it does exist.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 02:31:58 PM
Exotic....DNA?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 02:36:35 PM
Would it be the Leo Club...they had that when my daughter was in high school. If you go to the list...it wouldn't open for me. But I haven't been able to open Lion's sites until today.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 13, 2008, 02:42:38 PM
Exotic....DNA?


YEP

and now the DNA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 02:46:21 PM


LOL...baby steps as they say....one at a time

Did you see my post about the Leo Club....I flipped the page!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 02:49:09 PM
Caps...did you go to the photo gallery on that Lions home page?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 13, 2008, 02:51:14 PM
Yes, but his name was not on the picture.

Which site did you go to?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 02:59:42 PM
Yes, but his name was not on the picture.

Which site did you go to?




This one....Klaas has heaps of pictures in her photbucket....

http://www.arubalions.org/coppermine/



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 13, 2008, 03:02:25 PM
Caps...I'm still stuck on Freddy...I know he fits in here somewhere...He's just got to be Lala's 5th Suspect ....


LALA: Klaasend:

If it a young man, than I also need the Junior Lions Club board members of 2004, 2005, 2006



I can't find a Junior Club??? This is the other link for all members

http://www.arubalions.org/Member%20Area/member_roster_2005-2006.htm

The Directors meet at the Lions Den...


The list at the website is just a small list.

There is a Junior Lions Club Aruba. it does exist.

http://www.arubalions.org/Member%20Area/member_roster_2004-2005.htm

http://www.arubalions.org/Member%20Area/member_roster_2005-2006.htm



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 03:08:50 PM
Caps...do you have a name or are you trying to put a name to a person's face....TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 13, 2008, 03:20:45 PM
Here are photos, no list of names though.......

http://www.arubalions.org/coppermine/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 03:30:35 PM
Caps...if you don't want to post it, you could send Klaas an email...she's really good with pics...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 13, 2008, 03:48:17 PM
Caps...I'm still stuck on Freddy...I know he fits in here somewhere...He's just got to be Lala's 5th Suspect ....


LALA: Klaasend:

If it a young man, than I also need the Junior Lions Club board members of 2004, 2005, 2006



I can't find a Junior Club??? This is the other link for all members

http://www.arubalions.org/Member%20Area/member_roster_2005-2006.htm

The Directors meet at the Lions Den...


The list at the website is just a small list.

There is a Junior Lions Club Aruba. it does exist.

http://www.arubalions.org/Member%20Area/member_roster_2004-2005.htm

http://www.arubalions.org/Member%20Area/member_roster_2005-2006.htm



Well the rooster of 2004-2005 and 2005-2006 are the same...so from 2004 to 2006 they did not acquire no new members....Hmmmm somthing smells fishy


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 13, 2008, 03:57:49 PM
I suppose I know nothing about Shango here..but I don't think he is referring to an actual member of the Aruba Lions Club.  If he is then the Lions Clubs all over the world have some real problems on their hands.  I think the reference is more akin to lions in a den or a private club named the Lions Den.  Of course, I am more into the Shango and Simian are not too cryptic, because they are trying to tell us something...and they want us to figure it out.  The only thing I don't understand in regard to Simian is the 5th suspect.  There are only a few choices there and Shango's Dirty Hand.  Again, only a few choices there...so I am thinking I need to forget everything I ever thought about Shango and Simian.  I have been wrong from the start. The only thing I am right about is they were cowards and if they knew something they should have said so. Alas.....heavy sigh!  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 04:08:08 PM
I suppose I know nothing about Shango here..but I don't think he is referring to an actual member of the Aruba Lions Club.  If he is then the Lions Clubs all over the world have some real problems on their hands.  I think the reference is more akin to lions in a den or a private club named the Lions Den.  Of course, I am more into the Shango and Simian are not too cryptic, because they are trying to tell us something...and they want us to figure it out.  The only thing I don't understand in regard to Simian is the 5th suspect.  There are only a few choices there and Shango's Dirty Hand.  Again, only a few choices there...so I am thinking I need to forget everything I ever thought about Shango and Simian.  I have been wrong from the start. The only thing I am right about is they were cowards and if they knew something they should have said so. Alas.....heavy sigh!  :roll:

Doesn't Simian even say he belong to a 'skull and bones' group?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 13, 2008, 04:12:34 PM
Caps...if you don't want to post it, you could send Klaas an email...she's really good with pics...


I am waiting for the list from the library..will be delivert tnight...

The Person Lions IM# is 116.

There are those with the number 113, 114, 115, 117, 118 but no 116.

What happend to 116.???

How do you translate Hand in papiamento or spanish.!!!





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 04:24:32 PM
Maybe he died and they retired his number. Sorry no Spanish here...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 13, 2008, 04:29:58 PM
Remember Monkeys...


Dir. = ?
T. = first Name
y = Phonetic in dutch
Hand=Translate in papia mento

He is a bussiness owner and his lastname was the only one on the MEP party.

More to come...but I'm having difficulty getting on the net...complete disconnect. every 5 min.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 13, 2008, 04:34:51 PM
Caps....I found this...

http://www.arubalions.org/Board/board_of_directors.htm




On this site I check allready,and all info are taken out.


The Lib. has all this she is checking...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Icehawk on February 13, 2008, 04:41:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Icehawk on February 12, 2008, 09:21:32 PM
Quote from: Lala'sMom on February 12, 2008, 08:34:27 PM
Icehawk
I should add...most of the versions are here in the Shango thread...it would take a while to find them all.  My search capabilities are limited since the changeover.




Hi Lala'sMom.


Is this the right thread?

http://www.mcharvey.com/shango/shango.html




One straight path

to the house of Rave,

while of gold bricks

the road is not paved,

answers mysterious lie within

magical letters which spell sin

XTC DNA


Something Involing Natalee  =   sin

XTC DNA  =  ?





Hey!  How did you know I was looking for that yesterday?  Actually, that is only one version.  It was the gold standard for a while...yet some differ on it now.  My interpretation is that it refers to a place.  I have made Carlos n Charlie's fit it quite well before.  Or it is a house, which could be the Sloots or another location that holds rave parties.  I think the term rave on Aruba is more or less meaning party...that supplies drugs and has lots of music. That would fit pretty much any club there.  When I get a chance I will find you some more versions.




Thanks Lala's mom.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 04:48:27 PM
Icehawk...on page 52 are all the links to what we  have here at SM..if that's any help...not sure how far down the page though....Lala's and a few others have a lot of their own stuff...many hours of research...good to see you here...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 13, 2008, 04:54:33 PM


The clue is in here

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm   ***** NAT ****
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders (Prime Minster)
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder (Ex Prime Minster)
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, Babylon  will fall on the arawak nation (The people from Aruba)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on February 13, 2008, 05:03:01 PM

Only two references I can find that could fit :

donga (dong´g²)
n.
(S Afr., Austral.) a gully, a watercourse with steep sides.


donna (don´²)
n.
1 an Italian lady.
2 (Donna) an Italian title for, or form of address to, a lady, Madame, madam.

[It., from L domina, lady]

It is a bit early in the day for me to be tangoing   ::MonkeyCool::

Caps - I have noticed how your English has improved in the short time you have been posting here.  Congratulations.  I hope we have been able to help you with our language.
You have to ignore how I spell some words as we are taught the British version of English.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Icehawk on February 13, 2008, 05:20:09 PM
Icehawk...on page 52 are all the links to what we  have here at SM..if that's any help...not sure how far down the page though....Lala's and a few others have a lot of their own stuff...many hours of research...good to see you here...



Thanks MumInOhio


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on February 13, 2008, 05:43:17 PM
Taking the exercise even further you can get :

dental  (we all know this one)

denial
n.
1 the act of denying.
2 a negative reply.
3 abjuration, disavowal.
4 self-denial.
5 (Psych.) (subconscious) suppression of unacceptable knowledge or feelings.

edental
a.
edentate.
~ n.
an edentate animal.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 13, 2008, 06:02:04 PM
From BFN:


Aristotle wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am going to go out on a limb here.  This is only my opinion, like it or not, i don't care.  I reread shango recently and after devries "confession" by joran, i finally think i understand what shango was saying.  IMO joran is still lying to protect others.  IMO Mos should go to Bonaire and question vanderstraten.  I won't bore you with my line by line translations, but here is the gist. (and by the way, more than one source in aruba have confirmed that they have heard that these parties DO exist).

long ago in holland, a tradition was started where older influential men would meet and party..drugs, etc., and a younger girl or girls would be brought to them to satisfy their sexual pleasures.  Some of those men over the years transplanted to Aruba, yet they kept up the tradition, allowing others into their "group." These others likely consist of politicians and others in "power" positions.

there was one of these parties held in May 2005.  The "guest of honor" at this party...the young girl... was natalee.  She was lured to the party by joran.  The 2k dropped them off, as the 2k were not permitted at the party.  Something bad happened to natalee at the party.  joran was not the one who directly harmed her...he just lead her to this party.  Paulus and Vanderstraten know about these parties, and this party in particular.  Vanderstraten knows who harmed natalee. Other members of the ALE attend these parties as well.  joran cannot tell the truth about what happened to natalee because to do so would expose all of these other people.  Many of the politicians and policemen of aruba, and others...possibly judges, attorneys, etc., would lose their jobs over this and tourism would decline because tourists would not feel safe on an island littered with crooked cops.

the searches, arrests, court proceedings, etc. have been orchestrated to deceive the Americans/world and hide the truth about the island. everything, right down to joran's recent "confession" has been a sham, smoke and mirrors and a horse and pony show.  The ALE knows that the Americans/world is not going to let this go until someone is blamed for natalee's death.  joran is the obvious scapegoat because he was last seen with her and did not cause her death, so he can't be found guilty of that. 

the truth of Shango's posts will remain hidden, as will the truth about what happened to natalee until these parties and their participants are exposed.  According to shango, Vanderstraten did not participate directly in these parties, but he knew about them and did not shut them down.

IMO all of the people involved in these parties, and this party in particular, should be held accountable as they have misdirected the "investigation" from the start and up to the present time.  The question is, will Mos break the case wide open by exposing this, or is he a participant in these parties and/or the cover up?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 13, 2008, 07:02:56 PM


Only two references I can find that could fit :

donga (dong´g²)
n.
(S Afr., Austral.) a gully, a watercourse with steep sides.


donna (don´²)
n.
1 an Italian lady.
2 (Donna) an Italian title for, or form of address to, a lady, Madame, madam.

[It., from L domina, lady]

It is a bit early in the day for me to be tangoing   ::MonkeyCool::

Caps - I have noticed how your English has improved in the short time you have been posting here.  Congratulations.  I hope we have been able to help you with our language.
You have to ignore how I spell some words as we are taught the British version of English.




XTC DNA

eXoTiC DiNnA = EXOTIC DINNA

XTC DNA is restaurand specializing in Exotic food.

Now which ethnic is easy to fined.

We all know that the chinese do not pronounce the (R) letter

In chinese if a word start with an (R) they will substitute the letter with an (L) e.g Aruba they will say phonetic Aluba.

Now it the word terminate in an (R), the will just leave it out.

So D N A = DiNnA  (Phonetic)

so XTC DNA = An exotic chinese restaurant.

The rest of the riddle is also easy

Try-it



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 13, 2008, 07:08:08 PM
From BFN:


Aristotle wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Amen, Ari!  What I have been trying to express for so long!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 13, 2008, 07:35:55 PM
From BFN:


Aristotle wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am going to go out on a limb here.  This is only my opinion, like it or not, i don't care.  I reread shango recently and after devries "confession" by joran, i finally think i understand what shango was saying.  IMO joran is still lying to protect others.  IMO Mos should go to Bonaire and question vanderstraten.  I won't bore you with my line by line translations, but here is the gist. (and by the way, more than one source in aruba have confirmed that they have heard that these parties DO exist).

long ago in holland, a tradition was started where older influential men would meet and party..drugs, etc., and a younger girl or girls would be brought to them to satisfy their sexual pleasures.  Some of those men over the years transplanted to Aruba, yet they kept up the tradition, allowing others into their "group." These others likely consist of politicians and others in "power" positions.

there was one of these parties held in May 2005.  The "guest of honor" at this party...the young girl... was natalee.  She was lured to the party by joran.  The 2k dropped them off, as the 2k were not permitted at the party.  Something bad happened to natalee at the party.  joran was not the one who directly harmed her...he just lead her to this party.  Paulus and Vanderstraten know about these parties, and this party in particular.  Vanderstraten knows who harmed natalee. Other members of the ALE attend these parties as well.  joran cannot tell the truth about what happened to natalee because to do so would expose all of these other people.  Many of the politicians and policemen of aruba, and others...possibly judges, attorneys, etc., would lose their jobs over this and tourism would decline because tourists would not feel safe on an island littered with crooked cops.

the searches, arrests, court proceedings, etc. have been orchestrated to deceive the Americans/world and hide the truth about the island. everything, right down to joran's recent "confession" has been a sham, smoke and mirrors and a horse and pony show.  The ALE knows that the Americans/world is not going to let this go until someone is blamed for natalee's death.  joran is the obvious scapegoat because he was last seen with her and did not cause her death, so he can't be found guilty of that. 

the truth of Shango's posts will remain hidden, as will the truth about what happened to natalee until these parties and their participants are exposed.  According to shango, Vanderstraten did not participate directly in these parties, but he knew about them and did not shut them down.

IMO all of the people involved in these parties, and this party in particular, should be held accountable as they have misdirected the "investigation" from the start and up to the present time.  The question is, will Mos break the case wide open by exposing this, or is he a participant in these parties and/or the cover up?

This is what I have said over and over.  Shango was telling us about the "routine" that takes place.  Also, notice that van der Straaten is labeled as Dirty Hand...again what I have said over and over.   :2brickwall:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 13, 2008, 07:47:35 PM
We are over-analyzing a creative person's "story"....
told thru the veil of "Santeria", etc. images.

A story of sex, drugs and rock & roll ....."Follow the Music"
With the higher ups on Aruba...Corruption.

One that he has most likely been a part of.... :wink2:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Chata on February 13, 2008, 07:49:09 PM
From BFN:


Aristotle wrote:


This is exactly what RINGO was getting at when unriddling Shango back in 2005.  Someone paraphrased Doyle, "...remove the impossible and what you are left with is truth"
I don't think Aruba has gotten to the truth yet.

LaLa's, Mum, Caps ... keep pressing on.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 13, 2008, 08:29:53 PM
Tib…G’day mate…you have the honour of first mention in my 2000th post…

Vms… Thanks for bringing this over

Lala’s…the routine…It’s what I have thought as well…but we need the names and places

Caps…The Indo Restaurant…is that next to the Lion’s Den?

Just said today I was over analyzing…..




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on February 13, 2008, 09:09:59 PM
Tib…G’day mate…you have the honour of first mention in my 2000th post…

Vms… Thanks for bringing this over

Lala’s…the routine…It’s what I have thought as well…but we need the names and places

Caps…The Indo Restaurant…is that next to the Lion’s Den?

Just said today I was over analyzing…..






G'day Mum - I am indeed honoured   ::MonkeyWink::

As for over analysing - yes we do get to a point of not being able to see the forest for the trees.  But it is just so intriguing .......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 13, 2008, 10:38:59 PM
Tib…G’day mate…you have the honour of first mention in my 2000th post…

Vms… Thanks for bringing this over

Lala’s…the routine…It’s what I have thought as well…but we need the names and places

Caps…The Indo Restaurant…is that next to the Lion’s Den?

Just said today I was over analyzing…..





No, It is not

LALA have you read my report?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on February 13, 2008, 11:48:14 PM
I have often thought of something like what Ari's theory is,but why would they block the search of the VDS home and the reports of the blood in Deepak's car? All a smoke screen? A dutch poster the other day brought up the PV from one of the MB girls about the phonecalls to rosemarie about a massage or something outside of the HI. Then we also have the MB student who had to be carried back to the HI on the 28th. Also the mysterious urine tests in NY done to Hayley Carroro on 6/6/05. Were there attempts on others that failed?

It reminds me of Pausebreaks spoof at RU
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1291.40





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 14, 2008, 06:04:49 AM
*******...thanks...I remember reading that now

Tib....can't see the esses for the zees...LOL

Chata....anymore that you can remember?

COLUMBO...I expected to see you this morning!

Can anyone open those Lion's links this morning...maybe it's just me....again!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 14, 2008, 07:04:35 AM
Remember Monkeys...


Dir. = ?
T. = first Name
y = Phonetic in dutch
Hand=Translate in papia mento

He is a bussiness owner and his lastname was the only one on the MEP party.

More to come...but I'm having difficulty getting on the net...complete disconnect. every 5 min.


English to Pap translator...hand=man?????Gottcha...I am getting better at these riddles...must be the coffee....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 14, 2008, 07:45:34 AM
Caps....did you say those links went down again yesterday?

I can't find a "T".....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 14, 2008, 08:43:06 AM
Tib…G’day mate…you have the honour of first mention in my 2000th post…

Vms… Thanks for bringing this over

Lala’s…the routine…It’s what I have thought as well…but we need the names and places

Caps…The Indo Restaurant…is that next to the Lion’s Den?

Just said today I was over analyzing…..





No, It is not

LALA have you read my report?


Caps...No, it is not...it is not the Indo Restaurant or it is not next to the Lion's Den?  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 14, 2008, 09:26:48 AM
The post by aristotle that vms bought over from BFN would certainly explain Joran's use of a phone and computer while detained. Also explain the lack of questioning or their 'refusal' to answer questions.

COLUMBO...you're penthouse suite would be a possibility or a big white house. I wonder who that one belonged to that we had pics of, with the same young girl, a while back. The one that had some foreigners in it.

I wonder who would do the targeting...3 days...the cartoon...possibly from video tapes...now who would have access to those?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 14, 2008, 09:39:27 AM
LOL...posting to myself on two threads this morning....

The reason Ari's theory sounds more plausible to me than the Russian/North Korean Mafia one is that I can't see any way that Joran would still be on this earth if the Mafia was involved...thoughts COLUMBO?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 14, 2008, 09:41:11 AM
Tib…G’day mate…you have the honour of first mention in my 2000th post…

Vms… Thanks for bringing this over

Lala’s…the routine…It’s what I have thought as well…but we need the names and places

Caps…The Indo Restaurant…is that next to the Lion’s Den?

Just said today I was over analyzing…..





No, It is not

LALA have you read my report?

Yes.  I have read it...many times over.  I can not make the connections you do.  I am sorry...I am still trying.  I still say Shango's riddles are useless unless someone understands them.  They were not written for people on Aruba, they were written for internet posters...so either they are simple in nature or they are a bunch of malarky.  Now, I think there are valid points in both Simian and Shango.  I just can't see the connections you have...it is because I am not there and have not lived it like you have. Problem here is this...and I think this is why it's so hard to make you understand and for me as well...just because you say it doesn't make it so.  It requires proof that this is correct.  I have to work with what I have at the moment.  I am trying, but contrary to popular belief...I am not a conspiracy theorist.  That makes it harder for me to piece together.   

If indeed, you are correct about the Ritz and the kidnapping and all the other stuff...then Aruba is in big, big trouble and so are a lot of other people. Don't get me wrong, if it's true...it needs to be told.  I am just too dumb to understand it I guess.  I will keep plodding on and hope I have one of those "ah ha" type moments.  You have done a lot of work here.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 14, 2008, 10:02:42 AM
Not reading back plus I just woke up.  Could PVDS be Dirtyhand? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 14, 2008, 10:06:06 AM
LOL...posting to myself on two threads this morning....

The reason Ari's theory sounds more plausible to me than the Russian/North Korean Mafia one is that I can't see any way that Joran would still be on this earth if the Mafia was involved...thoughts COLUMBO?



I agree with you on Joran's lifespan if involved in the Russian/North Korean connection.  Joran is more of a threat to the local gambling, money laundering mob than the really big stuff.  I am thinking as long as he doesn't finger others for this mess...he is safe for a while.  If he is arrested then things could get very interesting.  I don't see Joran going down for this, but he did confess in such a way as to give him the out he needs.  It is obvious that the OM does not plan on pursuing anything more than a manslaughter charge...I go for the time served scenario myself.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 14, 2008, 10:06:56 AM
Not reading back plus I just woke up.  Could PVDS be Dirtyhand? 

I would say he's certainly one of them.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on February 14, 2008, 10:15:36 AM
Not reading back plus I just woke up.  Could PVDS be Dirtyhand? 

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am
Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29.   He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens the door to the lions den


watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:29 am
I think Subdude is on the right track about the media putting pressure on WHY the polis chief is leaving.


FWIW...I continue to believe that Shango is referring to Van Der Straten when he uses the singular term Dirty Hand.  Shango calls Dirty Hand the babylonian card and the keystone.  Van Der Straten managed the 'investigation' from the very beginning.  I think he did not leave the island until he was sure Natalee would never be found.


For those asking about the term Lions and/or Lion's Den....google flags of the Netherlands.  How many lions do you see?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on February 14, 2008, 10:21:54 AM

-----------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=flags+of+the+netherlands+lion&btnG=Search


------------------------------------------------------------------


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 14, 2008, 10:25:56 AM
Thanks truthseeker...Im glad google doesn't charge...See that...thanks...

Lala's...I found 2 references to an arrest on the 11th...one a blog entry I posted on the main thread and this one...see the headline...but I'm not seeing anything in the article...

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/12/national/12aruba.html





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 14, 2008, 11:51:51 AM
LOL...posting to myself on two threads this morning....

The reason Ari's theory sounds more plausible to me than the Russian/North Korean Mafia one is that I can't see any way that Joran would still be on this earth if the Mafia was involved...thoughts COLUMBO?



that's here:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:54 pm
Babylon needs to allow one sacrifice to keep DirtyHand hidden

Arawaks fear wrath of cowboys for DirtyHand
But babylonians live in teepees too
If the house of babylon is to remain erect, it must protect the babylonians who have lived in teepees, among the arawaks, for a long time.
babylon will agree to a sacrifice of newer teepee dwellers to prevent the story of dirtyhand being made public
Dirtyhand scares arawaks too
the sacrifice will be the correct sacrifice to appease the gods and cowboys

And who has the Elder SlanderFoot contacted in Babylon?
Hidden whispers, plans for the future.
OMERTA

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Coverups begin with elders and the founders of the houses of Babylon

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 14, 2008, 11:53:48 AM
Truthseeker....I only see ONE lion on those flags....but he could belong to the Lions....LOL....

Someone please try those links....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 14, 2008, 12:04:58 PM
LOL...posting to myself on two threads this morning....

The reason Ari's theory sounds more plausible to me than the Russian/North Korean Mafia one is that I can't see any way that Joran would still be on this earth if the Mafia was involved...thoughts COLUMBO?



that's here:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:54 pm
Babylon needs to allow one sacrifice to keep DirtyHand hidden

Arawaks fear wrath of cowboys for DirtyHand
But babylonians live in teepees too
If the house of babylon is to remain erect, it must protect the babylonians who have lived in teepees, among the arawaks, for a long time.
babylon will agree to a sacrifice of newer teepee dwellers to prevent the story of dirtyhand being made public
Dirtyhand scares arawaks too
the sacrifice will be the correct sacrifice to appease the gods and cowboys

And who has the Elder SlanderFoot contacted in Babylon?
Hidden whispers, plans for the future.
OMERTA

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Coverups begin with elders and the founders of the houses of Babylon

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys.





Are you trying to tell me he will be taken out?....Or is that just wishful thinking on my part...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 14, 2008, 12:07:31 PM
dirty hand:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand

The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty.
Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.


DirtyHand:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:49 pm
And the Arawaks keep their singing card hidden as well
The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house,
and so DirtyHand was discovered

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Tribe knows all of the players, even the elders of the inner circle

Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating

Follow the notes
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians (pimps)
and the arawak nation   (polis, gov't)
meet, under cover of delusion.
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.

DirtyHand is the link (between pimps and polis, gov't)
He holds the real key (hint: the real key=a real key, maybe!!!)

knows the forbidden fruit & gardeners......he sets the table


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 14, 2008, 12:16:01 PM
Truthseeker....I only see ONE lion on those flags....but he could belong to the Lions....LOL....

Someone please try those links....


Finaly I get it.

The lions are not of the Lions club

The Lions belong to the government who walk with the shield. They think that the shield can protect them

Remember the word wappun = Shield

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wapen_van_Aruba

Check the lion sitting on top of the shield

so DirtyHand = some one in the Aruba governments.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 14, 2008, 12:24:30 PM
Truthseeker....I only see ONE lion on those flags....but he could belong to the Lions....LOL....

Someone please try those links....


Finaly I get it.

The lions are not of the Lions club

The Lions belong to the government who walk with the shield. They think that the shield can protect them

Remember the word wappun = Shield

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wapen_van_Aruba

Check the lion sitting on top of the shield

so DirtyHand = some one in the Aruba governments.




Shield=cops

Aruba government + Justice= Rudy Croes

My opinion and a few other only

COLUMBO...I'm thinking.....and puzzling...where's Lala's?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 14, 2008, 12:26:41 PM
notes: lines of credit

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the note$
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians (pimps)
and the arawak nation (gov't polis)
meet, under cover of delusion.
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.
Tell the cowboys!

excerpt-pg 4:
Both pimps and prostitutes generally referred to their activities as “the game.”
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Chata on February 14, 2008, 12:35:28 PM

Remember Monkeys...


Dir. = ?
T. = first Name
y = Phonetic in dutch
Hand=Translate in papia mento

He is a bussiness owner and his lastname was the only one on the MEP party.


I really do not know who DirtyHand is but:

Reading back in my notes I found a reference to this same idea (Caps)... someone with their own business, powerful person on the island.  3 names come to mind as maybe fitting this ... Contreras/Cuntreras family, Monsur family (not necessarily Jossy), and the Posner family.

On another blog, from my notes, it was suggested that Jan Van der Straaten was not a power player, but was aware of all that happened on the island.  Did not participate as it would make him vulnerable, but that he might not be above taking bribes???

Now some questions:

How are Aruba and Curacao connected???  Sex trade is a possibility???

Shango makes many references to gambling, so what/who is the link to the casinos???  What is the connection to Natalee???  Did she owe money???  Or was she the owed money???

Is the maze a casino circuit??? Providing any and all entertainment (raves) to the high stakes players (lions)???

Was Natalee taken to the Palace at the Allegro (hotel closed, casino open-follow the misic)??? If so, why and by whom???  Joran???  If so, for what purpose???

What/who connects the Allegro and Wyndham???  Were the HI and Wyndham the only casinos that Joran ( the wanna be lion) gambled???  Why was he allowed, at 17???  Who/what was his connection???

Something is just not right with Joran and his confession ... I'm still thinking and reading back.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Chata on February 14, 2008, 01:03:19 PM
Colombo quoted Shango:

The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys.


This is why I think there is something wrong with Jorans confession ... too pat!!!

It is what everyone has been waiting to hear, offers explainations, ties it all up ... too neatly.  IMO!

Also, the elders walk in older circles, reference could be refering to the games previously/still played in other countries and brought forward to Aruba.  Elites/powerful men.

Still thinking here.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 14, 2008, 01:14:53 PM
Chata:

had a thought regarding circles......family circles? circles of power? perhaps both!

excerpt:
Aruba's reputation as a 'Mafia island' became public in March 1993 when it was described by the Italian daily Corriere della Sera as 'the first state to be bought by the bosses Cosa Nostra'. (7) The Sicilian Mafia clan of the families Cuntrera and Caruana allegedly had taken over the island. Between 1988 and 1992 they acquired 60 per cent of Aruba through investments in hotels, casino's and the election-campaign of a Prime Minister. Aruba looked set to be the first independent state under Mafia control.
http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml?page=archives_tblick_aruba


excerpt:
Aruba is controlled by the sicilian mafia -- all judges are bought -- the judge in training - the boy's father, is part of the Cuntrera family - the sicilian mafia top dogs -- they control all of aruba - they control judges, police - and all intelligence -
http://thesearchfornatalee.blogspot.com/2005/11/aruban-mafia-sold-natalee-to-sex-slave.html




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 14, 2008, 01:17:58 PM
My simple opinion on Joran's confession is that he now actually believes what he has said.

A distant? relative can tell the biggest whoppers and I have listened and heard them grow for 25 years. This person would no doubt pass a lie-detector test because she believes every word that has been said. This person is convinced that the 'stories' are the truth!

The only other options to that are: he's telling the truth....or it's a setup!!!

Because I lean to more involved than just Joran and "Daury" my opinion is that he now believe's what he's saying.....subject to change though...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 14, 2008, 01:22:15 PM
Mum:

I remember Mos careful statement that included a suggestion of - perhaps if there were a movie- or something along those lines

a few other clues:

Simian: Who said the alibi played for Van der Sloots? The fifth suspect is waltzing away......

Shango: Shango has not danced with the lions......

by any chance did NH dance? earlier in the week perhaps?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Chata on February 14, 2008, 01:27:43 PM
Chata:

had a thought regarding circles......family circles? circles of power? perhaps both!
excerpt:
Aruba's reputation as a 'Mafia island' became public in March 1993 when it was described by the Italian daily Corriere della Sera as 'the first state to be bought by the bosses Cosa Nostra'. (7) The Sicilian Mafia clan of the families Cuntrera and Caruana allegedly had taken over the island. Between 1988 and 1992 they acquired 60 per cent of Aruba through investments in hotels, casino's and the election-campaign of a Prime Minister. Aruba looked set to be the first independent state under Mafia control.
http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml?page=archives_tblick_aruba


excerpt:
Aruba is controlled by the sicilian mafia -- all judges are bought -- the judge in training - the boy's father, is part of the Cuntrera family - the sicilian mafia top dogs -- they control all of aruba - they control judges, police - and all intelligence -http://thesearchfornatalee.blogspot.com/2005/11/aruban-mafia-sold-natalee-to-sex-slave.html




Exactly!!!

Lawyers, as in US spokesperson.  IMO!

Mum,
I also believe that Joran believes his own stories, whatever/however they come forth at any given time.  That doesn't mean I do and I hope he is not fooling all the people all the time.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 14, 2008, 01:34:15 PM
Chata:

so,
"Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak (LE), you still have DirtyHand"

"The fallen judge and the singing card (DirtyHand) are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the arawaks to play it"

the notion of playing cards confused me......but Shango's references to card games are the LE bringing the heat down on the suspects!

Indeed, the maze of babylon is difficult for the supposed guilty

Why did the girl owe money?

DirtyHand knows
so does the elder (fallen judge)!




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Chata on February 14, 2008, 01:35:35 PM
Mum:

I remember Mos careful statement that included a suggestion of - perhaps if there were a movie- or something along those lines

a few other clues:

Simian: Who said the alibi played for Van der Sloots? The fifth suspect is waltzing away......

Shango: Shango has not danced with the lions......

by any chance did NH dance? earlier in the week perhaps?

You mean somwhere besides Carlos and Charlies???  With/for someone???


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 14, 2008, 01:36:01 PM
elders of the game, not just of babylon, walk in older circles

1) "the game"  (see above ref: pimpin)
2) "Cards"  (LE)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 14, 2008, 01:37:20 PM
Mum:

I remember Mos careful statement that included a suggestion of - perhaps if there were a movie- or something along those lines

a few other clues:

Simian: Who said the alibi played for Van der Sloots? The fifth suspect is waltzing away......

Shango: Shango has not danced with the lions......

by any chance did NH dance? earlier in the week perhaps?

You mean somwhere besides Carlos and Charlies???  With/for someone???

may be a fascinating question!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 14, 2008, 01:43:40 PM
Mum:

I remember Mos careful statement that included a suggestion of - perhaps if there were a movie- or something along those lines

a few other clues:

Simian: Who said the alibi played for Van der Sloots? The fifth suspect is waltzing away......

Shango: Shango has not danced with the lions......

by any chance did NH dance? earlier in the week perhaps?

The MB'ers apparently went to C&Cs on the Friday night I believe. Is this where she ran into GVC? Not sure on the facts on that right now.

It has crossed my mind a few times lately that the 'earlier in the week' and 'the girl owed money' could have been someone else. I'm sure you read the posts and saw the pics.

We have never been able to get around that 'earlier in the week' as Nat only arrived on Thursday and from what I've read they didn't do anything that night.

Got a really sick feeling about it....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 14, 2008, 01:49:20 PM
Mum:

I remember Mos careful statement that included a suggestion of - perhaps if there were a movie- or something along those lines

a few other clues:

Simian: Who said the alibi played for Van der Sloots? The fifth suspect is waltzing away......

Shango: Shango has not danced with the lions......

by any chance did NH dance? earlier in the week perhaps?

You mean somwhere besides Carlos and Charlies???  With/for someone???

may be a fascinating question!


COLUMBO...I don't remember that reference by Mos....remember I'm a reader...not a video person. Is that where you recall it from? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Chata on February 14, 2008, 01:51:13 PM
Chata:

so,
"Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak (LE), you still have DirtyHand"

"The fallen judge and the singing card (DirtyHand) are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the arawaks to play it"

the notion of playing cards confused me......but Shango's references to card games are the LE bringing the heat down on the suspects!

Indeed, the maze of babylon is difficult for the supposed guilty

Why did the girl owe money?

DirtyHand knows
so does the elder (fallen judge)!




Did the US lawyer make noise when he appeared on TV???  Warning???  Have some of the weird deaths in Aruba been warnings???

Why did the girl owe money???

Also, I still would like to know the significance of the masks that are in some of the photos floating around and purported to have been worn by an older man being intimate with Natalee ... this from someone who is supposed to have viewed a video with Natalee on it???

Colombo,

I also found a reference to Simian being connected to music ... Simian sound equipment.  Mobil sound equipment ... maybe used at raves???  The music man???

Be back in a few hours.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 14, 2008, 01:56:40 PM
Mum:

I remember Mos careful statement that included a suggestion of - perhaps if there were a movie- or something along those lines

a few other clues:

Simian: Who said the alibi played for Van der Sloots? The fifth suspect is waltzing away......

Shango: Shango has not danced with the lions......

by any chance did NH dance? earlier in the week perhaps?

You mean somwhere besides Carlos and Charlies???  With/for someone???

may be a fascinating question!


And are we now back to the 5th suspect. Who did she dance with, where...Natalee was a dancer!

I wish we could see those 302's...

Thurs...they didn't do much from what I've read.
Friday...C&Cs
Saturday....the snorkeling and stayed at the hotel.
Sunday...C&Cs

From what I've read...this was all I could find.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 14, 2008, 02:02:50 PM
Mum:

I remember Mos careful statement that included a suggestion of - perhaps if there were a movie- or something along those lines

a few other clues:

Simian: Who said the alibi played for Van der Sloots? The fifth suspect is waltzing away......

Shango: Shango has not danced with the lions......

by any chance did NH dance? earlier in the week perhaps?

You mean somwhere besides Carlos and Charlies???  With/for someone???

may be a fascinating question!


And are we now back to the 5th suspect. Who did she dance with, where...Natalee was a dancer!

I wish we could see those 302's...

Thurs...they didn't do much from what I've read.
Friday...C&Cs
Saturday....the snorkeling and stayed at the hotel.
Sunday...C&Cs

From what I've read...this was all I could find.

are young flies conned into venus flytraps?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Nut44x4 on February 14, 2008, 02:16:29 PM
From BFN:


Aristotle wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am going to go out on a limb here.  This is only my opinion, like it or not, i don't care.  I reread shango recently and after devries "confession" by joran, i finally think i understand what shango was saying.  IMO joran is still lying to protect others.  IMO Mos should go to Bonaire and question vanderstraten.  I won't bore you with my line by line translations, but here is the gist. (and by the way, more than one source in aruba have confirmed that they have heard that these parties DO exist).

long ago in holland, a tradition was started where older influential men would meet and party..drugs, etc., and a younger girl or girls would be brought to them to satisfy their sexual pleasures.  Some of those men over the years transplanted to Aruba, yet they kept up the tradition, allowing others into their "group." These others likely consist of politicians and others in "power" positions.

there was one of these parties held in May 2005.  The "guest of honor" at this party...the young girl... was natalee.  She was lured to the party by joran.  The 2k dropped them off, as the 2k were not permitted at the party.  Something bad happened to natalee at the party.  joran was not the one who directly harmed her...he just lead her to this party.  Paulus and Vanderstraten know about these parties, and this party in particular.  Vanderstraten knows who harmed natalee. Other members of the ALE attend these parties as well.  joran cannot tell the truth about what happened to natalee because to do so would expose all of these other people.  Many of the politicians and policemen of aruba, and others...possibly judges, attorneys, etc., would lose their jobs over this and tourism would decline because tourists would not feel safe on an island littered with crooked cops.

the searches, arrests, court proceedings, etc. have been orchestrated to deceive the Americans/world and hide the truth about the island. everything, right down to joran's recent "confession" has been a sham, smoke and mirrors and a horse and pony show.  The ALE knows that the Americans/world is not going to let this go until someone is blamed for natalee's death.  joran is the obvious scapegoat because he was last seen with her and did not cause her death, so he can't be found guilty of that. 

the truth of Shango's posts will remain hidden, as will the truth about what happened to natalee until these parties and their participants are exposed.  According to shango, Vanderstraten did not participate directly in these parties, but he knew about them and did not shut them down.

IMO all of the people involved in these parties, and this party in particular, should be held accountable as they have misdirected the "investigation" from the start and up to the present time.  The question is, will Mos break the case wide open by exposing this, or is he a participant in these parties and/or the cover up?

Not so far fetched at all vms. I think msany of us have thought along these lines at one time or another. Don't forget about the skeeeeeery hindu--witch doctor--masks too! Part of the sick ritual, imo.
(http://bestsmileys.com/scared/5.gif)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 14, 2008, 02:17:37 PM
Mum:

I remember Mos careful statement that included a suggestion of - perhaps if there were a movie- or something along those lines

a few other clues:

Simian: Who said the alibi played for Van der Sloots? The fifth suspect is waltzing away......

Shango: Shango has not danced with the lions......

by any chance did NH dance? earlier in the week perhaps?

You mean somwhere besides Carlos and Charlies???  With/for someone???

may be a fascinating question!


And are we now back to the 5th suspect. Who did she dance with, where...Natalee was a dancer!

I wish we could see those 302's...

Thurs...they didn't do much from what I've read.
Friday...C&Cs
Saturday....the snorkeling and stayed at the hotel.
Sunday...C&Cs

From what I've read...this was all I could find.

are young flies conned into venus flytraps?


Do you think she was conned into something because of her dancing?...A movie...or so she thought...someone had to be watching her...or at least talking to her or her friends....?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 14, 2008, 02:35:15 PM
I do not believe that Shango & Simian's use of these terms is coincidental

in each case it does not directly refer to NH as doing the dancing

as a dancer would she need to be conned? or asked?

takes me back to an earlier post:

http://www.group-sales.com/resorts/aruba/wyndham_aruba.php

Open from midday until the early hours[SMALL HOURS], this "Gaming Paradise" offers the excitement of your favorite traditional and classic table games[SPEND YOUR NIGHTS AT THEIR TABLES], in a glamorous, glittering Arabic [BABYLONIAN] atmosphere.
We have 317 state-of-the-art slot machines, all with comfortable seats for extended play. Also, for your enjoyment, we offer complimentary beverage and cocktail service. Our slot machines include a variety of models and coin denominations (5 cents to $25) which appeal to every player, including electronic video games and the newest technology, multi-game touch screens. We also have reelers, crisscrosses, multiples, progressive/specialty machines, and video poker.



Our table games include:

Nine blackjack tables, one of the most popular and simple games
Two craps tables, the exciting, fast-paced, action-packed dice game
Three double-zero roulette tables
One baccarat table plus one mini-baccarat table
Three Caribbean stud poker tables, Let It Ride and three-card poker
We also feature a special [liONS] high limit exclusive area[for high ROLLers], with an additional roulette table, three blackjack tables, one baccarat table and a Caribbean stud poker table.

The Ca$ino Bar offers specialty drink favorites (TRAGIC MANSPORT)  and live [FOLLOW THE] music which will keep the rhythm of the night pumping . You can also enjoy watching your favorite sports teams on our multiple-screen television.

For those of you that are "Slot Players", be sure to inquire with our Casino Promotions Desk about our special MVP membership club. We offer a daily promotion which is specially designed to give you the most probabilities to walk away with your pockets filled with merchandise, cash, restaurant discount coupons, weekend stays and even a new car["MAGIC TRANSPORT" BUT THE ROAD IS NOT PAVED]!




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 14, 2008, 04:04:52 PM
I'm not sure who Simian considers to be the 5th suspect
She does post about a "wild & crazy boy" (at start of vacation) jealous of Joran
GVC tried to dance with Natalee on Friday night

Simian: Who said the alibi played for Van der Sloots?
The fifth suspect is waltzing away......


Could just be a figure of speech
Was the alibi for another?

Shango: Shango has not danced with the lions......

That he is not a part of this "brotherhood" And watches from a distance


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Chata on February 14, 2008, 04:58:30 PM
I do not believe that Shango & Simian's use of these terms is coincidentalin each case it does not directly refer to NH as doing the dancing

as a dancer would she need to be conned? or asked?

takes me back to an earlier post:

http://www.group-sales.com/resorts/aruba/wyndham_aruba.php

Open from midday until the early hours[SMALL HOURS], this "Gaming Paradise" offers the excitement of your favorite traditional and classic table games[SPEND YOUR NIGHTS AT THEIR TABLES], in a glamorous, glittering Arabic [BABYLONIAN] atmosphere.
We have 317 state-of-the-art slot machines, all with comfortable seats for extended play. Also, for your enjoyment, we offer complimentary beverage and cocktail service. Our slot machines include a variety of models and coin denominations (5 cents to $25) which appeal to every player, including electronic video games and the newest technology, multi-game touch screens. We also have reelers, crisscrosses, multiples, progressive/specialty machines, and video poker.



Our table games include:

Nine blackjack tables, one of the most popular and simple games
Two craps tables, the exciting, fast-paced, action-packed dice game
Three double-zero roulette tables
One baccarat table plus one mini-baccarat table
Three Caribbean stud poker tables, Let It Ride and three-card poker
We also feature a special [liONS] high limit exclusive area[for high ROLLers], with an additional roulette table, three blackjack tables, one baccarat table and a Caribbean stud poker table.

The Ca$ino Bar offers specialty drink favorites (TRAGIC MANSPORT)  and live [FOLLOW THE] music which will keep the rhythm of the night pumping . You can also enjoy watching your favorite sports teams on our multiple-screen television.

For those of you that are "Slot Players", be sure to inquire with our Casino Promotions Desk about our special MVP membership club. We offer a daily promotion which is specially designed to give you the most probabilities to walk away with your pockets filled with merchandise, cash, restaurant discount coupons, weekend stays and even a new car["MAGIC TRANSPORT" BUT THE ROAD IS NOT PAVED]!





I agree. 

Look where the ad refers you to ... the Wyndham!!  Casino!!  With an exclusive area for the high rollers!!!  Lots to offer guests.  Wonder what else a guest could request and get??? 

Every question brings another to mind.

Back to thinking about it.

Caps you have been very quiet ... who is DirtyHand, in your opinon???



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 14, 2008, 05:11:00 PM
Mum:

Could you repost that link from RWV about LVR & SGC being brought in????

tx


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 14, 2008, 05:18:48 PM
Chata:

no telling what is on the menu in the exclusive VIP area
 ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 14, 2008, 05:46:42 PM
The Allegro Hotel? (allegro=music)

Hotel was closed/under construction
Top floors-timeshares-open
Rendevouz Casino (for locals)
2 Security guards, Haley worked there
Underground parking area



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on February 14, 2008, 06:33:33 PM
Mum:

I remember Mos careful statement that included a suggestion of - perhaps if there were a movie- or something along those lines

a few other clues:

Simian: Who said the alibi played for Van der Sloots? The fifth suspect is waltzing away......

Shango: Shango has not danced with the lions......

by any chance did NH dance? earlier in the week perhaps?

The MB'ers apparently went to C&Cs on the Friday night I believe. Is this where she ran into GVC? Not sure on the facts on that right now.

It has crossed my mind a few times lately that the 'earlier in the week' and 'the girl owed money' could have been someone else. I'm sure you read the posts and saw the pics.

We have never been able to get around that 'earlier in the week' as Nat only arrived on Thursday and from what I've read they didn't do anything that night.

Got a really sick feeling about it....
Yes,the info is foggy but I recall that GVC was grinding up against Natalee at there first trip to C&C..Might have been a confrontation after that? We heard Deepak,GVC and Joran fought with a MB teen. Not sure exactly who it was if anyone.

Also:If you look at the archives of RWV at about July 25th,so many rumors and speculation. But they talk about the dead dogs..Saying Lorenzo killed them,one sacraficed by the bloody mattress,another in a bag at the allegro where they were searching for Natalee..Someone speculates it was santeria or whatever that religeon is. Which reminds me of hotshot,when she was leaving Aruba and the blood on the sidewalk as she entered her terminal.. ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 14, 2008, 07:55:08 PM
We have been search Thinking Like America... We need to think duct and a lot new info comes up but in dutch

Lios = Leeuwen
Lion = Leeuw
Geheim = Secrets
VDA = Veiligheid Diend Aruba (Aruba Secret Service)
Government=Overheid

Dirty=Vuil or Vuile

so search for "Aruba Vuile Overheid leeuwen"

or search for "Aruba Overheid geheim"



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 14, 2008, 09:33:31 PM
re: The Allegro Hotel ("Follow the Music"?)

Joran's photo was labelled "Our friend's from Barcelona"
Then he removed the label

3 of the 4 owners of the Allegro come from Spain
1 from Barcelona, Spain


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on February 14, 2008, 09:49:05 PM
Alfonso Riversol was involved with both the Allegro and the Wyndham, in 2005.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 14, 2008, 10:56:06 PM
Allegro Hotel...."Royal club Suites"
Owners:
De Diego...............Madrid
Aznar, Ambrosio.....Barcelona, Spain
Cardoso...............Zamora, Spain
Trimon.................Aruba

Wyndham Hotel..."Presidential Suites"
Owners: Rob Smith & Riversol


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on February 15, 2008, 01:38:08 AM
We have been search Thinking Like America... We need to think duct and a lot new info comes up but in dutch

Lios = Leeuwen
Lion = Leeuw
Geheim = Secrets
VDA = Veiligheid Diend Aruba (Aruba Secret Service)
Government=Overheid

Dirty=Vuil or Vuile

so search for "Aruba Vuile Overheid leeuwen"

or search for "Aruba Overheid geheim"



If we are not Dutch, do not understand the Dutch language and therefore can not think like the Dutch then it is very difficult to interpret it in any other way than the way we already think and understand.
That is why I am in awe of all the clever monkeys that have worked with these riddles since they were first posted and have come so far with their findings, as not very many of them had any prior understanding of the Dutch or Aruban cultures.
I will now step back and watch with renewed interest while the Dutch monkeys solve this for us.
.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on February 15, 2008, 01:43:52 AM
*******...thanks...I remember reading that now

Tib....can't see the esses for the zees...LOL

Chata....anymore that you can remember?

COLUMBO...I expected to see you this morning!

Can anyone open those Lion's links this morning...maybe it's just me....again!

Mum - yes   LOL   Or the zees for the zeds  LOL

I have the most trouble with dates though : 4/5 could be 4 May or 5 April.  Guess you have become used to it by now?

OT - I have a query about WA and you may have lived there then.  Can you email me when you find time please.  Lalas should have my addy somewhere in her Shango files   LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 15, 2008, 05:12:23 AM
I'm not sure who Simian considers to be the 5th suspect
She does post about a "wild & crazy boy" (at start of vacation) jealous of Joran
GVC tried to dance with Natalee on Friday night

Simian: Who said the alibi played for Van der Sloots?
The fifth suspect is waltzing away......


Could just be a figure of speech
Was the alibi for another?

Shango: Shango has not danced with the lions......

That he is not a part of this "brotherhood" And watches from a distance


Interesting that you think that Simian was a female and Chata thinks connected to music, Lala's thinks someone with inside info to ALE (I think)....

If indeed Simian was a female, she may not be with us anymore, another arubacide!

Not sure if Simian is/was female though...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 15, 2008, 05:23:45 AM
Mum:

Could you repost that link from RWV about LVR & SGC being brought in????

tx

Is this it?....over-rode my favorite yesterday and accidently cleared my history the day before....sounds like something Aruba would do....you just have to open the comments to the story...and I'm not sure what you're looking for...at the top of the page are dates for back or forward...much like our fron page....

  http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/week24/index.html




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 15, 2008, 05:44:15 AM
From BFN:


Aristotle wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am going to go out on a limb here.  This is only my opinion, like it or not, i don't care.  I reread shango recently and after devries "confession" by joran, i finally think i understand what shango was saying.  IMO joran is still lying to protect others.  IMO Mos should go to Bonaire and question vanderstraten.  I won't bore you with my line by line translations, but here is the gist. (and by the way, more than one source in aruba have confirmed that they have heard that these parties DO exist).

long ago in holland, a tradition was started where older influential men would meet and party..drugs, etc., and a younger girl or girls would be brought to them to satisfy their sexual pleasures.  Some of those men over the years transplanted to Aruba, yet they kept up the tradition, allowing others into their "group." These others likely consist of politicians and others in "power" positions.

there was one of these parties held in May 2005.  The "guest of honor" at this party...the young girl... was natalee.  She was lured to the party by joran.  The 2k dropped them off, as the 2k were not permitted at the party.  Something bad happened to natalee at the party.  joran was not the one who directly harmed her...he just lead her to this party.  Paulus and Vanderstraten know about these parties, and this party in particular.  Vanderstraten knows who harmed natalee. Other members of the ALE attend these parties as well.  joran cannot tell the truth about what happened to natalee because to do so would expose all of these other people.  Many of the politicians and policemen of aruba, and others...possibly judges, attorneys, etc., would lose their jobs over this and tourism would decline because tourists would not feel safe on an island littered with crooked cops.

the searches, arrests, court proceedings, etc. have been orchestrated to deceive the Americans/world and hide the truth about the island. everything, right down to joran's recent "confession" has been a sham, smoke and mirrors and a horse and pony show.  The ALE knows that the Americans/world is not going to let this go until someone is blamed for natalee's death.  joran is the obvious scapegoat because he was last seen with her and did not cause her death, so he can't be found guilty of that. 

the truth of Shango's posts will remain hidden, as will the truth about what happened to natalee until these parties and their participants are exposed.  According to shango, Vanderstraten did not participate directly in these parties, but he knew about them and did not shut them down.

IMO all of the people involved in these parties, and this party in particular, should be held accountable as they have misdirected the "investigation" from the start and up to the present time.  The question is, will Mos break the case wide open by exposing this, or is he a participant in these parties and/or the cover up?

Not so far fetched at all vms. I think msany of us have thought along these lines at one time or another. Don't forget about the skeeeeeery hindu--witch doctor--masks too! Part of the sick ritual, imo.
(http://bestsmileys.com/scared/5.gif)

I remember those posts from way back about the masks, only vaguely about the witch doctor....

Which path to follow....Ari's, COLUMBOS, any more?

Both the above require a huge cover-up, but what is bugging me big time is....why has Aruba not just let this die down, why have they repeatedly put this story back in the news...the glass of wine....there was no need for that interview to even happen...

I can't see any 'mafia' allowing J's antics.....

None of this makes sense to me.....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 15, 2008, 05:59:56 AM
I'm not sure who Simian considers to be the 5th suspect
She does post about a "wild & crazy boy" (at start of vacation) jealous of Joran
GVC tried to dance with Natalee on Friday night

Simian: Who said the alibi played for Van der Sloots?
The fifth suspect is waltzing away......


Could just be a figure of speech
Was the alibi for another?

Shango: Shango has not danced with the lions......

That he is not a part of this "brotherhood" And watches from a distance

I have long thought that Freddy is the 5th...I need to find confirmation on his 'alibi...so tight...so tight'.

MO...The alibi is playing for Freddy...

As San says...nothing sticks to Freddy....

That said....the early posts about an arrest on 6/11 may throw a spanner in the works and if I go with what Marianne Croes said about Freddy being held from the 9th...more quesrions...was he detained...when...when did he become a suspect...it appears not until sometime between 6/16 to 6/23

Was Guido a suspect before May 2006...was GVC?...More questions?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 15, 2008, 06:14:30 AM
The Allegro Hotel? (allegro=music)

Hotel was closed/under construction
Top floors-timeshares-open
Rendevouz Casino (for locals)
2 Security guards, Haley worked there
Underground parking area



Haley...cop...is this who Dave saw...I think at the rocks...hurriedly closing his trunk...TIA

Why does your post about the Allegro make me think of elevators or an elevator company?  I know I just something about it...top floor-timeshares...had to be elevators from the underground garage....

Didn't caps mention an underground garage...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 15, 2008, 06:31:31 AM
Mum:

I remember Mos careful statement that included a suggestion of - perhaps if there were a movie- or something along those lines

a few other clues:

Simian: Who said the alibi played for Van der Sloots? The fifth suspect is waltzing away......

Shango: Shango has not danced with the lions......

by any chance did NH dance? earlier in the week perhaps?

The MB'ers apparently went to C&Cs on the Friday night I believe. Is this where she ran into GVC? Not sure on the facts on that right now.

It has crossed my mind a few times lately that the 'earlier in the week' and 'the girl owed money' could have been someone else. I'm sure you read the posts and saw the pics.

We have never been able to get around that 'earlier in the week' as Nat only arrived on Thursday and from what I've read they didn't do anything that night.

Got a really sick feeling about it....
Yes,the info is foggy but I recall that GVC was grinding up against Natalee at there first trip to C&C..Might have been a confrontation after that? We heard Deepak,GVC and Joran fought with a MB teen. Not sure exactly who it was if anyone.

Also:If you look at the archives of RWV at about July 25th,so many rumors and speculation. But they talk about the dead dogs..Saying Lorenzo killed them,one sacraficed by the bloody mattress,another in a bag at the allegro where they were searching for Natalee..Someone speculates it was santeria or whatever that religeon is. Which reminds me of hotshot,when she was leaving Aruba and the blood on the sidewalk as she entered her terminal.. ::MonkeyEek::

Just read yesterday...Bryan Reynolds said that it was Joran that had a confrontation with one of the MB'ers...he said in the same interview that J2K's were the first he thought of when he heard that Natalee got in a car with someone....

I am sure Freddy and Jaime were hanging around the beach...it was their MO...for some reason I do not see the Kalpoes hanging out on the beach....no way!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 15, 2008, 06:49:42 AM
We have been search Thinking Like America... We need to think duct and a lot new info comes up but in dutch

Lios = Leeuwen
Lion = Leeuw
Geheim = Secrets
VDA = Veiligheid Diend Aruba (Aruba Secret Service)
Government=Overheid

Dirty=Vuil or Vuile

so search for "Aruba Vuile Overheid leeuwen"

or search for "Aruba Overheid geheim"



If we are not Dutch, do not understand the Dutch language and therefore can not think like the Dutch then it is very difficult to interpret it in any other way than the way we already think and understand.
That is why I am in awe of all the clever monkeys that have worked with these riddles since they were first posted and have come so far with their findings, as not very many of them had any prior understanding of the Dutch or Aruban cultures.
I will now step back and watch with renewed interest while the Dutch monkeys solve this for us.
.


I will google away until they decide to charge me Caps....let you know if I find anything.

I am disappointed though....not even a pat on the back for solving your little riddle yesterday...and I was so proud of myself....dir. 'T' hand

Tib...MO only...Shango and Simian posted on the front page of SM...they posted with Americans...I didn't read then, and you and Lala's would know for sure, but I don't recall any Dutch posters on the front page back then.Only American and Arubans, with a few others sprinkled in, but I can't recall any Dutch. Even if there was one or two, it wouldn't make sense to direct the posts that way...

Caps...I think you are on the wrong path here...Shango and Simian had to be directing their posts to Americans.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 15, 2008, 06:59:30 AM
*******...thanks...I remember reading that now

Tib....can't see the esses for the zees...LOL

Chata....anymore that you can remember?

COLUMBO...I expected to see you this morning!

Can anyone open those Lion's links this morning...maybe it's just me....again!

Mum - yes   LOL   Or the zees for the zeds  LOL

I have the most trouble with dates though : 4/5 could be 4 May or 5 April.  Guess you have become used to it by now?

OT - I have a query about WA and you may have lived there then.  Can you email me when you find time please.  Lalas should have my addy somewhere in her Shango files   LOL

Tib...the very first thing I stopped using...zed....every time I used it DH gave me such a strange look.

Still have a terrible time with the dates....still go to get in the wrong side of the car...funny as I don't drive...took me years to cross a road by myself

Think I have your email from Lala's...will do emails today....too much tangoing

Hope it's not about Skylab...LOL....those crazy Americans need to let this one land on Aruba...if they miss they may hit Chavez...LOL...way behind on the news...it may be down already!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 15, 2008, 07:37:19 AM
My simple opinion on Joran's confession is that he now actually believes what he has said.

A distant? relative can tell the biggest whoppers and I have listened and heard them grow for 25 years. This person would no doubt pass a lie-detector test because she believes every word that has been said. This person is convinced that the 'stories' are the truth!

The only other options to that are: he's telling the truth....or it's a setup!!!

Because I lean to more involved than just Joran and "Daury" my opinion is that he now believe's what he's saying.....subject to change though...

As I said...subject to change...It was a setup....I distinctly remember Mos saying in November he had 'an infitrator'...I posted on this, speculated it may have been a girl. Not going back to find my posts..I remember what I read and posted.

Mos would not have been able to use this 'confession'.

Rudy squashed whatever Mos had in November...there turned out to be 'no new evidence' except for Deepak's comment on a drowned teacher.

There were not two infiltrators..no way...I was not born yesterday...everyone in Aruba heard this story if we did...Joran went back and set up Peter deVries...absolutely no doubt in my mind...you just have to look at Joran's face to know it was.

He threw the wine in deVries face because he knew what de Vries was going to do. I hope de Vries is hopping mad.

Juries out,IMO, on whether Patrick was a 'victim' as well...we may never know.

There's going to be lots of lawsuits...the evidence is gone...but we have the statements...or do we...

We don't even have a scapegoat any more....

How in the world can a third world country like Aruba get away with this????

Rant over...before I really go to town....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 15, 2008, 07:57:24 AM
COLUMBO...was that link what you wanted?...I just came across a post about them in a photo from the 12th .. no link..just something I found and wasn't sure.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 15, 2008, 08:30:20 AM
vms or Nut ... did aristotle elaborate any more on his posts? I know he said he didn't wnat to be a bore, but some of us would find them quite interesting...I'm sure.   TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on February 15, 2008, 09:58:44 AM
Alfonso Riversol was involved with both the Allegro and the Wyndham, in 2005.


Thank goodness....at last someone else sees this!!!!!

Yes, he was.  He was very involved in booking the entertainment for the hotel lounges.

I have been screaming Allegro since Shango first posted this:

Shango on June 27th, 2005 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED



This was posted on the Allegro message board back in June 2005 and I posted it here many times:

> If there was no connection, maybe she wandered over to the other hotel
> to use their casino?  The Allegro was only a few minutes away and
> despite the renovations the casino was open.  It seems unlikely that
> she would have just been grabbed off the street in front of her hotel
> right after being dropped off.
> They said something on Fox about witnesses alerting police to
> suspicious activity at the Allegro after her disapperance, people
> coming and going even tho it was closed.


The security guards originally arrested worked security at the Allegro until the hotel closed down for rennovations. It was their uniform that Deepak chose to describe, not the uniform of the HI security. While Deepak was inventing the HI lie did he inadvertantly describe the Allegro security uniforms because that's how he saw security that night...at the Allegro?  With the casino being open, people could still enter the hotel if invited by the hotel manager/GM...right?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 15, 2008, 10:01:00 AM
*******...sorry...that was a friend of Bryan Reynolds that had the confrontation with Joran. Bryan had to separate them. I just found it in the 'student quotes' link I have.





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 15, 2008, 10:10:10 AM
Truthseeker..Good Morning...how far is the Allegra from the HI and Wyndham?  Could 'small houses' be townhouses?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on February 15, 2008, 10:19:14 AM
Truthseeker..Good Morning...how far is the Allegra from the HI and Wyndham?  Could 'small houses' be townhouses?

Not far at all.  The Allegro is now called the Occidental Grand Aruba.  Check out this map:

(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r139/songluva/hotel-map-1.jpg)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on February 15, 2008, 10:31:01 AM
Truthseeker..Good Morning...how far is the Allegra from the HI and Wyndham?  Could 'small houses' be townhouses?
::MonkeyTongue::

Here is a link to an old article about the Wyndham.  You will see the names of Alfonso Riverol and Rob Smith.

http://tinyurl.com/2rvow7


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 15, 2008, 10:41:30 AM
Thanks...I was looking for something on the Wyndham and the security tapes - why van der Straten interviewed this person. I remembered something in the student quotes and I'm looking for it.
In I think his book, Joran gave Deepak instructions as to the route they drove because of being caught on tape.

Rambling a little, but bottom line I'm sure they were back there...

GVC Daddy would have erased all the tapes. van der Straten needed the sec. Camera guy on board....more random thoughts

Need to connect the dots....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on February 15, 2008, 10:52:55 AM
Truthseeker..Good Morning...how far is the Allegra from the HI and Wyndham?  Could 'small houses' be townhouses?

Oh...and the Wyndham on that map is now called the Westin Aruba Resort.

Here are all of the addresses:

Marriott Resort - L.G. Smith Boulevard # 101

Marriott Ocean Club - L. G. Smith Boulevard #99

Holiday Inn - J. E. IRAUSQUIN BLVD #230

Playa Linda - J.E. Irausquin Blvd. #87

Hyatt Regency - J.E. Irausquin Blvd #85

Allegro/Occidental - J.E. Irausquin Blvd. #83

Radisson - J.E. Irausquin Blvd. #81

Wyndham/Westin - J.E. Irausquin Boulevard 77




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on February 15, 2008, 10:57:12 AM
Truthseeker..Good Morning...how far is the Allegra from the HI and Wyndham?  Could 'small houses' be townhouses?

Oh...and the Wyndham on that map is now called the Westin Aruba Resort.

Here are all of the addresses:

Marriott Resort - L.G. Smith Boulevard # 101

Marriott Ocean Club - L. G. Smith Boulevard #99

Holiday Inn - J. E. IRAUSQUIN BLVD #230

Playa Linda - J.E. Irausquin Blvd. #87

Hyatt Regency - J.E. Irausquin Blvd #85

Allegro/Occidental - J.E. Irausquin Blvd. #83

Radisson - J.E. Irausquin Blvd. #81

Wyndham/Westin - J.E. Irausquin Boulevard 77




Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved
,

Possibility???

One straight path is the beach.  The beaches are manmade and the beaches support the hotels.  Lots of money involved in creating this part of the island.  money = gold brick,   sand = not paved.

House of Rave -  Allegro, Marriott, Riverol???????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 15, 2008, 11:02:41 AM
WOW!! We are almost to page 100 in this thread.  Is that a record?  Woo hoo!! 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 15, 2008, 11:03:18 AM
I think you guys are onto something!

(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/Allegro-Wyndham-Piets-Pier.jpg)
Allegro-Piet's Pier to Wyndham

(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/wyndham-owner.jpg)
Alfonso Riversol..."He was very involved in booking the entertainment for the hotel lounges."

(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/Wyndham-parking.jpg)
Entrance to Wyndham from road...Left: out of pic...Open parking area (where Deepak had parked Monday night) Passageway between buildings...kitchen and basement. Left: Main entrance dropoff...On right: enclosed parking area (closed in 2005) Elevators...and 3 small apartments for "Managers/Food & bev mgrs"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 15, 2008, 11:04:33 AM
Small houses would be apartments...read Capslock's version of the apartments used for "deflowerings".


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 15, 2008, 11:06:37 AM
'one straight path' is the beach...I think I asked COLUMBO that once...back when he seldom answered.

Lala's...the phone GVC got may have been his mother....maybe his Dad was being questioned....just another thought....

I wonder what the 'real key' was to?

Follow the Music...Riversol?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 15, 2008, 11:13:12 AM
Lala's...I meant phone CALL....need more coffee!

I think I'll borrow your post from the other thread and put it in the thread that a new poster started that says 'IT'S OVER'. I hope you don't mind...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 15, 2008, 11:48:03 AM
Wyndham Hotel="The White House"?

Presidential Suites
Casabanca Casino
Small apts. for managers

Story: Inside the enclosed empty parking area is 3 small apts.  Out of the middle, came a man with a suitcase on wheels.  He looked around and paced back & forth very nervously for quite awhile...Finally, leaving with his suitcase...walking very quickly outside and into the main entrance to the business offices. Then on to the "Follies Show" where he placed himself in photos with the dancers and tourists...Riversol?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 15, 2008, 12:01:10 PM
Lala's...I meant phone CALL....need more coffee!

I think I'll borrow your post from the other thread and put it in the thread that a new poster started that says 'IT'S OVER'. I hope you don't mind...

Of course I don't mind. Thanks.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 15, 2008, 12:02:43 PM
Wyndham Hotel="The White House"?

Presidential Suites
Casabanca Casino
Small apts. for managers

Story: Inside the enclosed empty parking area is 3 small apts.  Out of the middle, came a man with a suitcase on wheels.  He looked around and paced back & forth very nervously for quite awhile...Finally, leaving with his suitcase...walking very quickly outside and into the main entrance to the business offices. Then on to the "Follies Show" where he placed himself in photos with the dancers and tourists...Riversol?

I know this is going to sound strange coming from a Shango nut such as I, but where did this "white house" term actually originate?  Is it in Shango?  I don't seem to remember that in there, but I do tend to skip things these days.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on February 15, 2008, 12:08:33 PM
Wyndham Hotel="The White House"?

Presidential Suites
Casabanca Casino
Small apts. for managers

Story: Inside the enclosed empty parking area is 3 small apts.  Out of the middle, came a man with a suitcase on wheels.  He looked around and paced back & forth very nervously for quite awhile...Finally, leaving with his suitcase...walking very quickly outside and into the main entrance to the business offices. Then on to the "Follies Show" where he placed himself in photos with the dancers and tourists...Riversol?

I know this is going to sound strange coming from a Shango nut such as I, but where did this "white house" term actually originate?  Is it in Shango?  I don't seem to remember that in there, but I do tend to skip things these days.

Me neither.  I have seen Columbo post about, but i do not see it in Shango.

I'm more interested in the Allegro than the Wyndham.  And the Marriott.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 15, 2008, 12:10:39 PM
I'm not sure where the "white house" reference came from...
I thought the Moko "Whitehouse" was a possibility to this reference...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 15, 2008, 12:12:47 PM
Are we there yet????

Just posting these from his book...maybe his directions to Deepak will make sense to someone....

Deepak 6/15 PV
After this his mother said to us: "Boys you will have to go home soon". She felt we should not be out on the streets untill late.
We also should not go in the neighbourhood of the Marriott, because the police would control for sure, and you never know what can happen.


Page 133, Deepak statement about June 8.
That Wednesday Satish and I stayed until 01:45 at Joran's watching tv.
My mother called angry and said that we had to come home. When I walked
outside Joran asked Satish if he would come the next day to cut Joran's
hair.
On the way to the car Joran said to me: Do you remember the way back
from the Holiday Inn? I said yes, we have dropped off the girl and we
have brought you to your home. He said: Come to my room for a while, I
will explain to you on a piece of paper, it is very important.
He told me that I should remember (what we had done) after we had
dropped the girl off, I had to say that we drove off from the hotel and had
driven into a North-East direction and not in a South-West direction,
this to prevent that police would go and check camera's of the other
hotels and would see that we had not driven to the HI.
After that I told him ok and we went home.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 15, 2008, 12:12:52 PM
Please read the story about the Wyndham "apts"...It is most likely Riveroll.

I see that at one time the Wyndham was owned by him and 5 men from Belize.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 15, 2008, 12:20:21 PM
I'm not sure where the "white house" reference came from...
I thought the Moko "Whitehouse" was a possibility to this reference...

The would not be in Shango then..so where in the heck did we get that idea?  Gosh! It's all hard to separate. I will see what I can find. the Moko reference was in Merian Ernst.  Hmmmmm. Which is linked with Simian and not Shango. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 15, 2008, 12:22:28 PM
Other than COLUMBO'S Casablanca...the loesge posts

Yapperz posted the 'star' with pics...I would have to go back and see if both those apartments were white...seems one had a lot of orange.

Truthseeker...I found a star yesterday something to do with political parties? Will see if I can find it.

Next question...is Riversol Jewish...just my Star of David thought?





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 15, 2008, 12:23:19 PM
Wyndham Hotel="The White House"?

Presidential Suites
Casabanca Casino
Small apts. for managers

Story: Inside the enclosed empty parking area is 3 small apts.  Out of the middle, came a man with a suitcase on wheels.  He looked around and paced back & forth very nervously for quite awhile...Finally, leaving with his suitcase...walking very quickly outside and into the main entrance to the business offices. Then on to the "Follies Show" where he placed himself in photos with the dancers and tourists...Riversol?

I am missing your point...sorry.  Help me out here...show me something. TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 15, 2008, 12:25:47 PM
Sorry...I don't know where the "White House" reference came from on here.
The Moko Apts was posted as a possibility of "illicit apts"/ white house & I'm adding the Wyndham apts as a possibility.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 15, 2008, 12:26:26 PM
Other than COLUMBO'S Casablanca...the loesge posts

Yapperz posted the 'star' with pics...I would have to go back and see if both those apartments were white...seems one had a lot of orange.

Truthseeker...I found a star yesterday something to do with political parties? Will see if I can find it.

Next question...is Riversol Jewish...just my Star of David thought?





What Yapp posted was connected to Capslock's post about the Whitehouse apartments. I am the one that asked her to post it. She posted the picture of the star because of a Merian Ernst post that speaks of a star.  That is why I am wondering where the original term "white house" came from?  Is it because the word Casablanca means white house?  I don't know the answer.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 15, 2008, 12:27:33 PM
Sorry...I don't know where the "White House" reference came from on here.
The Moko Apts was posted as a possibility of "illicit apts"/ white house & I'm adding the Wyndham apts as a possibility.

Now I am on a search to find out...LOL  I never thought about it's origins.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 15, 2008, 12:28:53 PM
One more thing...how did Simian know that there was a cell call placed at 2 in the morning?  That has always bothered me there....thinking out loud again.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 15, 2008, 12:36:06 PM
That Wednesday Satish and I stayed until 01:45 at Joran's watching tv.
My mother called angry and said that we had to come home. When I walked
outside Joran asked Satish if he would come the next day to cut Joran's
hair. "Supposedly" this is the night J2K return a camera to Freddy...
And Joran is worried about his hair?!


On the way to the car Joran said to me: Do you remember the way back
from the Holiday Inn? I said yes, we have dropped off the girl and we
have brought you to your home. First lie Joran asked from Deepak on Tuesday am.
He said: Come to my room for a while, I will explain to you on a piece of paper, it is very important. He told me that I should remember (what we had done) after we had dropped the girl off, Where? I had to say that we drove off from the hotel (Holiday Inn) and had driven into a North-East direction
(Joran's house) and not in a South-West direction, this to prevent that police would go and check camera's of the other hotels and would see that we had not driven to the HI. After that I told him ok and we went home.

IMO...most likely the Wyndham as Joran "mixes up" the Radisson & Wyndham...which one he was gambling at to "be on camera"
Deepak parked at the Wyndham Monday night.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 15, 2008, 12:40:48 PM
Sorry...I don't know where the "White House" reference came from on here.
The Moko Apts was posted as a possibility of "illicit apts"/ white house & I'm adding the Wyndham apts as a possibility.

Now I am on a search to find out...LOL  I never thought about it's origins.


Maybe COLUMBO knows....I'm thinking the 46th spirit and what he told me when I asked how the Wyndham got to be the 46th...it's 46th on the hotel list.
Casablaca=white house and the loesge posts...other than that I have no clue???


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 15, 2008, 01:21:20 PM
One more thing...how did Simian know that there was a cell call placed at 2 in the morning?  That has always bothered me there....thinking out loud again.


I don't know...interesting!

Debra I will check on that...I have a tab open with PVs, but have a little going on right now....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on February 15, 2008, 01:40:14 PM
Sorry...I don't know where the "White House" reference came from on here.
The Moko Apts was posted as a possibility of "illicit apts"/ white house & I'm adding the Wyndham apts as a possibility.

Now I am on a search to find out...LOL  I never thought about it's origins.


Maybe COLUMBO knows....I'm thinking the 46th spirit and what he told me when I asked how the Wyndham got to be the 46th...it's 46th on the hotel list.
Casablaca=white house and the loesge posts...other than that I have no clue???

Does anyone remember this post by tidycat:

[tidycat
Scared Monkey


Oh, and when I followed the above link to Lorenzo's tickle site, I noticed that under the pics of his friends it said, "see all 46." Which of course brought to mind Shango's 46th spirit and 46 sacrifices. (Yes, I know...I should post this elsewhere.) ]


I have this saved but for some reason I did not save the time stamp for her post.  I posted in another site back then and I had shown this to fellow posters there in 08/28/05.  She did not include the link to the tickle site.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 15, 2008, 02:49:46 PM
Debra...it appears the Raddisson is where Deepak was parked....or so J says.

Guido and I arrived at the Raddison Casino. I went to play poker. I was busy playing poker when I was called by Andre. He asked me where I was. I had told him that I was at the Raddison Hotel. He told me he would come by there. Deepak had also asked me where I was. I told him that I was at the Raddison Casino. Deepak told me that he would be there as soon as possible. At approximately 01.00 am Deepak came over to me. Andre was there too. I was on a roll. I played for about another hour. At approximately 02.00 am I stopped playing. I had "cashed out" my chips. Deepak wanted to go and play black jack. I didn't know why but he wanted to go to the Wyndham Casino. According to him he had no luck at the Raddison Casino. At approximately 02.30 am, Deepak and myself were walking to his car. He was there in his Honda Civic. The car was parked in the parking lot of the Raddison Hotel. Guido left to take Andre home.

We drove towards the Wyndham Casino. When we were just about to get out of the car, my father called.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 15, 2008, 03:07:27 PM
Truthseeker...I wonder if Tidycat remembers anymore about that post. It is interesting as on all the old blogs I see people saying no tickle site for him. I have been trying to go back over the RBNs and the old front page, but there is just not enough time.

I'm sure if I run across it I will save it....LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 15, 2008, 03:58:03 PM
ORANJESTAD, Aruba - Aruban authorities have arrested a new suspect in the case of missing Alabama teen Natalee Holloway, the prosecutor’s office announced Friday.

The person “suspected of being involved” in Holloway’s disappearance was identified only as a 26-year-old with the initials S.G.C. The office did not disclose the gender.

The arrest was made at 6:25 a.m. local time, the office stated.

Qouted from the MSN webpage located here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8218429/
Posted by: Hman | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 12:47 PM

So as I understand it -

1)fourth guy was taken into custody last night and was being questioned.

2)fifth guy arrested this morning (different from guy above).

I have heard two names "lorenzo" and "person with initials SGC"...

Is this correct and can anyone tell which one is which?

Posted by: Florida Girl | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 01:04 PM






Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 15, 2008, 04:58:30 PM
vms or Nut ... did aristotle elaborate any more on his posts? I know he said he didn't wnat to be a bore, but some of us would find them quite interesting...I'm sure.   TIA

Aristotle wrote:

here is the most telling part:

casanostra Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:35 am
I picked the casanostra as a name after doing much research as to their relationship to the island of Aruba and the drug trade, as well as other things that go along with it. Do some googling and find out for yourself. I think that Natalie is alive and that there are people on the island, and those that pass through the island that no one wants to mess with. There lies the predicament. You have a criminal element more powerful than the authorities and a chess game is being played. I think Joran is being protected, but he is also guilty of something. Not murder, but leading Natalie into something very sinister. I apologize if my speculation is in any way disrespectful to she or her family, but I find this very intriguing and it goes much deeper than what is implied on television.

Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:36 am
Casanostra is standing at a window looking onto Babylon…



whereas others were merely opening windows to the truth with their guesses about vanderstraten, etc., casanostra was STANDING there staring the truth right in the face.
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mum,

Thank you for responding yesterday on the other thread. Just decided it was best to leave well enough alone...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 15, 2008, 07:38:52 PM
VMS
Your post reminded me of something I have been meaning to post here.  KEEP IN MIND some of these posts are not from the same IP address as most of Simian's posts were.  Klaasend would know more about how to explain it, but since we are pulling out all the stops here...I think it bears looking at once again.

subdude on June 30th, 2005 12:31 am

Simian Says:

June 29th, 2005 at 4:18 pm
A Babylonian capo whispered to me. They have too much on the boy and the Hindus.

June 29th, 2005 at 4:29 pm This one Babylonian is a sure shot. The boy and the Hindus are closer than you would think. They believe all of their fingers are burned. The Babylonians think she’s on her way to Panama with the help of the Carib.

4:18 post: Simian says he has an informer that is a head of some Aruban branch of government: Commissioner, police chief. “Too much” could mean either too focused on JVDS/Kalpoes or a wealth of evidence against JVDS/Kalpoes

4:29 post: Aruban head of government is reliable — a “sure shot”. JVDS and Hindus are more involved that we think. Since they do not get outside information in jail, they do not know information like PVDS or Croes have been released. They think that information has come out that connects them to the drugs/prostitution ring. This ring is consistent with Shango’s statements about what goes on at the house (suggested drugs and prostitution, e.g. “honey laden notes”, “raves”, Mary was no virgin, etc…)

JVDS and Kalpoes are involved in prostitution/drugs ring themselves, not just getting dope from the dealers.

The Arubans think NH is on the way to Panama with the help of? Who is the Carib?

Ladies and gents, the police chief is resigning as the focus turns towards drugs and prostitution. Again I ask, coincidence? Not likely.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 15, 2008, 07:46:10 PM
Found this also...just wanted to post it in case we ever need it for reference again...no comments from me at this time. A lot of this may or may not have been debunked by now. This is not my info...it is from a poster named new girl.

new girl on June 30th, 2005 12:42 am

The content of my post from last night about Lorenzo, all of which is compiled from message board postings. I did not author these. I am posting them anyway, for no reason other than because they may be important. I only want to find an answer for the Holloways. OKAY, here’s more “Lorenzo” posts:

According to AmericaninAruba, Lorenzo has a house on the main road of Savaneta and also another one in Seroe Alejandro.

Per AmericaninAruba:

The Lorenzo guy who was questioned yesterday is known for having underground parties at one of his houses. The house is rather isolated and surrounded by lots of brush & cactus.

A poster from Aruba on Scared Monkeys is claiming that in addition to SGC, there was another guy detained yesterday. This other guy, Lorenzo, is known to be wild and crazy, especially since his father killed himself a few years ago, according to the poster.

The other person, a “Lorenzo” who was allegedly questioned yesterday, is a crazy dude whose father owned the local VW dealership but the father offed himself a few years ago.

the lorenzo character - hsi father owned the Vwagen distributor here….but after his father committed suicide they family sold th ebusiness…

teh SBC (this mornigns arrest) - i have no idea!!!

The lorenzo guy reportedly has connections to drugs and parties. The

Someone named Lorenzo was detained and questioned yesterday, but we don’t think he has been arrested yet. He is known to be a nutcase, maybe capable of something. His dad owned the Volkswagon dealership there but committed suicide 3 years ago and was found hanging in the hallway of their home. Finally, someone suggested that maybe Natalee was taken to an “underground party”. Other posters have explained that these parties are thrown after the bars close, that they are supposed to get permissions before they have them, that the police quickly close down any parties that don’t have permission, but that Lorenzo lives out away from town and does throw parties and the police don’t close those down as easily.

This “Lorenzo” kid’s name was mentioned from the very beginning..In fact it is the first name I heard when this whole thing started…. My guess is that he must have been involved with her sometime during her trip, and that they are now bringing in EVERYBODY that had come in contact with her…. (from what I hear, “lorenzo” is ONE troublemaker…… )I don’t know him, but I know he has had problems with the law before…..something about a fight at one of his parties….can’t remember the details…

does anyone one remember the first couple of night we were all talk ing someone said basically, “when this all shakes out there are going to be major ramifications, there are ppl involved that are high up”.. and it aint gonna be pretty….sounds like this guy knew something about the actual crime…this was post in the other area before we had this forum.. does anyone remeber and also, do you know who this might have been…

I don’t know if his name is Lorenzo or not…
But from the very beginning “the son of an ex Vwagen dealer” was somehow involved….. He was the first one mentioned….

rvmaui

Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 3

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:54 am Post subject: missing girl

——————————————————————————–
Blue Volkswagon. maybe van or sedan?
High Road.Dead End. National Park
black plastic bag. moist in a dry area.
2 bulders.
leg twisted back.

Thats all i got.
I’m a little sick now.
I hope they find her.

rvmaui

Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 3

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:32 pm Post subject: missing girl

——————————————————————————–

A bird could lead the way to the location of her body. or a bird watcher.

what I mean by moist in a dry area, or what I see is an area that is normally dry and water some times splashes or drips on the location.

DNA to be found in a blue volkswagon? not sure I see a blue hatchback of a vehicle with the emblem of volkswagon I think. not blood.

I could be full of shit.





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 15, 2008, 07:56:29 PM
Michoo on June 30th, 2005 12:50 am

about shango:

Shango is the deity, orisha whose power is imaged by thunder and lightning. As the legendary fourth king of the ancient kingdom of Oyo, Shango’s rule was marked by capricious use of power. One account asserts that Shango was fascinated with magical powers. He inadvertently caused a thunderstorm and lightning struck his own palace killing many of his wives and children. In repentence he left his kingdom and travelled to Koso where he hung himself. When his enemies cast scorn upon his name, a rash of storms destroyed parts of Oyo. Shango’s followers proclaimed him a god and that the storms were Shago’s wrath, avenging his enemies.

“All of the stories concerning Shango represent the theme of power-capricious, authoritative, procreative, destructive, magical, medicinal, and moral power. Shango’s staff visualizes the unpredictable and violent power of the deity. This power is personified through dance. At the annual festival for Shango, an entranced devotee, the elegunshango , dances to the piercing, staccato rhythms of the bata drum and waves the staff, oshe , with violent and threatening gestures and then suddenly draws it to himself in a motion of quiet composure.”


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 15, 2008, 07:59:35 PM
Michoo on June 30th, 2005 1:05 am

it is part of a religion found in Yorubaland, Nigeria. some of yoruba tradition/rituals are found in the carib and in South America (brazil)b/c many yorubians/yorubans were taken as slaves and transported to the carib and S.A. but i think this shango/simian person is one in the same. it is a college kid messing around with our minds. the shango story is very well known with people who study west africa.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 15, 2008, 08:03:02 PM
Michoo on June 30th, 2005 1:24 am

alcatl Says:

June 30th, 2005 at 1:16 am
maybe Shango is Larenzo which leads back to my theory that a psychopath always likes to lead people back to his crime…Shango you know is here he is just either under a different name or not speaking…either way…these boys down in aruba are more arrogant than intelligent…unless you have a point in doing it stop telling them how wise they are…justice will come in some form or fashion…KARMA won’t let you get away with something like this…

_________________________________
this shango character is arrogant b/c he thinks of himself as the fourth ruler of Yoruba a god. but i am telling you these are college kids who had to take a traditions class in school, and they are messing w/us.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 15, 2008, 08:14:36 PM
As most of you know I prefer to post things with context for reference as to why something was said...so here is a lot to read with a few things of interest thrown in. These are actual FP posts from this time period...nothing is made up here...don't shoot the messenger, please.



#  subdude on June 30th, 2005 1:39 am

Kristy and Jutin T:

Was she hanging out with a group of gampbellers during the three or four nights before her disappearance? Aruban gampbellers, men, not people from AL on the trip.

Please answer and please check with your people. Is it likely there is videotape from the kaseeno showing this? Again, I am not judging. Man, if you knew my history, you would know I am not judging.


# alcatl on June 30th, 2005 1:40 am

.


# Ari on June 30th, 2005 1:40 am

Kristi:

The lie detector thing was all over here and Dan Riehls and the Websleuths, but I don’t recall if it was from the channels or from a newspaper.


# subdude on June 30th, 2005 1:40 am

Justin T: Still out there?


# Justin T on June 30th, 2005 1:40 am

subdude,

NO that was anther rumor that got started somehow.


# watcher on June 30th, 2005 1:41 am

YES, Bethany! That is what I thought! I think he was baring his soul. I think the little bit of a smile was an embarassed one. Like, yes I have been a lowlife, but I didn’t kill her.


# subdude on June 30th, 2005 1:41 am

Justin T:

The kaseeno thing was a rumor?


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 1:41 am

I wasnt there …..

Shango/Simian stated … the revenge of a scorned lover ….

I dont recall the exact phrase

I believe she was playin the kaseeno … pun intended


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 1:42 am

Thanks watcher!!


# T K on June 30th, 2005 1:44 am

Justin

Was there anyone on the trip with her that might have been upset or jealous that she was hanging out with Joran?


# casanostra on June 30th, 2005 1:45 am

I’m starting to buy into the idea that these guys (Joran and the brothers) are being kept safe from Lorenzo and crew. But what about the parents? Why are they safe? Do they not know anything at all or are they not at risk from Lorenzo because so much attention is on their homes? If that’s the case, that wouldn’t Joran also be safe at home? Or would his release cause the media to go away, causing things to go back to normal? What kind of journalists are Greta and Geraldo that they don’t have enough sense/nerve to go check out Lorenzo’s rave house?


# Justin T on June 30th, 2005 1:45 am

Subdude,

There were locals and everyone else at the tables. Someone I know started this thing that Natalee was hanging out with some coloumbian drug lord or something. That didn’t happen.


# hope on June 30th, 2005 1:46 am

I agree, Joran is being protected in custody


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 1:46 am

Interesting how all the pictures that were taken whilst on vacation were apprehended/confiscated by the parents or chaperones .. not LE. and that they were not to be developed.

This is what I hear.

My senior trip …. if i was to take pictures … there is no way im turning over my memories. Regardless. Doesnt that make you a little curious to know what might have been photographed. I mean just a bunch of party girls/guys. but why hide the pictures.

Im sure Mr. Justin can correct me.


# Ari on June 30th, 2005 1:46 am

Michoo:

He didn’t leave her on the beach, nor HI, that is a lie. He took her to a party, but he doesn’t dare say that - his life is at stake if he does. Incidentally, this is the sort of thing that Beth suspects and waiting it out hoping that 3 boys will confess is a joke of an investigation. It seems that if this is the case they are stuck. Joran and the others will keep silent until the end.


# T K on June 30th, 2005 1:46 am

Can anyone tell me if this “Lorenzo” has been discussed by any of the news people? Is he only someone whos been mentioned on this board, or does he actually exsist? I never heard about him except on this site.


# Justin T on June 30th, 2005 1:47 am

not as in someone “I” know but someone I understand started the rumor about hanging with gambler or something


# subdude on June 30th, 2005 1:47 am

Justin T: Thanks for being on here. You must know more than you can share.

So far, your comments (to my recollection) have been strictly limited to telling people when things are not accurate. It seems you can’t offer info.

Know that most, if not all, of us are trying to help.

See if you can’t share something more.

My tel is (954) 614-9453 anytime. I know I am a fool to post it, but . . . .

Night all, I’m wupped.


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 1:47 am

You cannot hear the music in the daytime. Shango says.

Joran is being held possibly for protection, but also due to the pressure from the media and the states.

I bet Aruba will be glad when the media leaves.


# watcher on June 30th, 2005 1:48 am

The parents are safe as long as the boys keep their mouths shut. That is why “the lamb is biting his tongue bloody”.


# hope on June 30th, 2005 1:49 am

Ari, I agree these boys got in way over their head trying to impress a beautiful girl. Can you really blame the Dad for advising them? They are not afraid of the courts or the US….this goes WAY up.


# Shango on June 30th, 2005 1:49 am

All of Shango’s information comes from the higher power, Olorum

Shango has not danced with the lions, nor Arawaks,and does not keep their company

Eyes of god may look from afar with great acuity.

The resolution to find Mary lies with the Arawak Nation

Dirty Hand has bound the Arawak Nation with Babylonian Rope

The Lamb and the two Shivas whisper in the dark,

while the lions pace silently in the bush.

Dirty Hand is the link!

The lamb, the shivas, the elder whispering, exiting like theives in the night, clothed with invisible armor

If Dirty Hand falls, so does Babylon, but too, the Arawak Nation shall suffer.

Threadsurfers listen!

The lamb shall run anew in virgin fields, cropping sweet grass which should remain untouched.

The Lamb has sins, but the lions have sharper teeth.

A new key must be found to open unknown doors.

The first concern of the Arawak nation is wampum.

But unseen tides pull babylonian seas through Arawak Moats, bittering the waters.

DirtyHand and the Lions must see the light of Arawak Day, or forever walk in plentiful fields.

The dead shall eternally sleep if a clamour is not made.

Lamb and the Elder are stepping stones into the fetid pool of deception.

The rule of the Arawak King is the Final word.

DirtyHand has fouled the air for all nearby, but the Arawak Nation will claim Babylonian Authority prevents them from hunting Lions, and DirtyHand.

But the Arawak king controls destiny of all. The Arawak king has DirtyHands and DirtyFeet. If he is to reign anew, he cannot be soiled more.

The babylonians have ruled the Arawak Nation through deception and stealth, and their charges, the Arawaks, speak now with the same forked tongue, on behalf of their king.

The gift the cowboys ask of the king of the Arawak Nation is a mere trifle.

All ye who sing in the cyber-chorus lower your voices not!

It has been proven that the lamb, the shivas, and the elders are not the breach in Arawak Armour!

Let us hunt Lions, The King, and Dirty Hand.

The lions pace silently in the bush, while the king seeks pleasures with his concubines.

Threadsurfers! What is sought is not hidden.

The Lamb and the elder are not the keystone in the Arch of Corruption.

Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid Arawak King who wishes to blame the babylonians for the behaviour of lowly minions.

If the head of the beast is in plain view it is folly to attack protected flanks.

Threadsurfers, DirtyHand is more vulnerable than the Arawak King and your lances should point in his direction.

He is the weak link, if he tumbles, all fall with him….. The lamb, the shivas, the elder

Shango looks from afar but speaks with truth. He does not converse with the Simian, or any other worldly sources, and attempts to bring direction to speculation

I must feed the messengers

The gods are talking


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 1:49 am

Ari, are you a local?


# T K on June 30th, 2005 1:50 am

Subdude you are really asking for it now. lol Posting that number is a huge mistake if it is real. lol Hope you have a goodnight, that is if your phone doesn’t start ringing soon.


# watcher on June 30th, 2005 1:50 am

I also think that is why the PVDS and depok were so adament about telling Joran to SAY NOTHING. Because they know that all of consquences that would happen from saying anything.


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 1:50 am

Welcome Shango.


# T K on June 30th, 2005 1:51 am

Ohhhh look who joined us. Mr. shango.


# Michoo on June 30th, 2005 1:52 am

someone writes:
“Was she hanging out with a group of gampbellers during the three or four nights before her disappearance? Aruban gampbellers, men, not people from AL on the trip.”

Please answer and please check with your people. Is it likely there is videotape from the kaseeno showing this? Again, I am not judging. Man, if you knew my history, you would know I am not judging. ”
_________________________________________

aruba has like three major bars/clubs..and they are very small. however, the isle has plenty of casinos! everyone that visits aruba visits the casinos. so i am sure she went to the casinos. My 60 yr old aunt and uncle visit the casinos. along with the old people! aruba is not the party island it is being potrayed as.


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 1:52 am

It will take me all night to decipher.


# T K on June 30th, 2005 1:53 am

thats what he wants. lol


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 1:54 am

Shango :

Does Shango and Simian fear one another?


# casanostra on June 30th, 2005 1:55 am

Let’s hear more about Lorenzo. Someone send an email to Greta or Nancy Grace and see if they’ll pursue that angle. Surely they are running out of things to talk about and keep their ratings up unless they find something new.


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 1:55 am

Shango,

What do you study?


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 1:56 am

Lets work together here. I know who most everyone is. But Im not certain I know the “lions”

Shango … DH is leaving. Correct ?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 15, 2008, 08:18:30 PM
Again...don't shoot the messenger...

#  hope on June 30th, 2005 1:56 am

Shango–who is Lorenzo?


# watcher on June 30th, 2005 1:56 am

Shango,
has DH or KING been on tv?


# casanostra on June 30th, 2005 1:56 am

I want some of what Shango has been smoking.


# ******* on June 30th, 2005 1:57 am

Why don’t you guys do something decent and tip the authorities with some of these alternate theories. C’mon - have some courage and dignity rather than posting this stuff here for sheer fetish pleasure. Someone may have died, but the locals seem to be loyal to either the VDS family or are afraid to point the finger at the true culprits (publicly or anonymously to the authorities). The Arubans deny it, but you appear scared of the drug mafia (columbians or whoever). Why have they taken you captive?

Don’t worry - even though the media may leave, the holloways will stay until they get justice.

MAY THE GHOST OF NH HAUNT THE LOCAL ARUBANS FOREVER UNTIL THEY HELP SOLVE THIS CASE - DISGUSTING COWARDS.

# ydave on June 30th, 2005 1:57 am

I think they realized they can distract a lot of people with new theories and a little bit of flirting, and the idea that Natalee is kidnapped and moved to another country by big drug dealers.

When that does not work, they will come with a new distraction about a jealous boyfriend who may have killed her. Like if the ex boyfriend would know that Joran and the Kalpoes were going to leave Natalee at a beach near the Marriot hotel, at 2:30 in the morning of May 30th.

If you read the posts on this page, you barely see anyone talk about Paulus VDS coaching his son and the friends of his son on May 31st, that there will be no case if there is no body. The same father who told them to lie about their activities with Natalee on the night of May 30th.

Just remember, Joran and the Kalpoes would not need to lie for the whole time they have been in jail, if they have not harmed Natalee. And Father VDS would not need to coach them if he son was not involved in a crime.


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 1:57 am

The Arwaks need money


# subdude on June 30th, 2005 1:57 am

Shango:

I wassss going to sleep.

The key is Polis Chief. I knew it was no coincidence he is resigning.

Arawak King is the Prime Minister who is also dirty and apparently coming up for reelection. Its all about the wampum.

I am going to have to study your message.

Bloggers, keep the focus on the Police Chief.


# Shango on June 30th, 2005 1:58 am

Shango does not fear the Simian

Shango feels the Simian speaks speculatively

desiring to know, but remaining clothed in darkness


# Ari on June 30th, 2005 1:58 am

Kristy:

No, I am from the States, but I am well travelled.


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 1:59 am

JvdS has not harmed her. I feel sure.


# izzy on June 30th, 2005 1:59 am

right on, ydave!!!


# Michoo on June 30th, 2005 1:59 am

hey shango…how long did your message take all day? you don’t fool me for a second college boy/girl…however, i am sure you are a boy. if you know so much, you should contact the proper officals…b/c a life depends on it. but i am sure- you are a bored teenage college boy.


# T K on June 30th, 2005 2:00 am

shango,

do you feel that yourself is also “clothed in darkness”?


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 2:00 am

Shango,

The Arwaks need “more” wampum?


# ******* on June 30th, 2005 2:02 am

SHANGO - You are the biggest coward of all! If what you imply is really true, and if you really have information, you should anonymously tip it to the authorities rather than leave cryptic messages here. If you’re leaving messages here in order to help the case, would it not be more effective to communicate this directly to the authorities? If you’re afraid of the real culprits (columbians or whoever), don’t you think that by posting here, you’ve already disclosed yourself to the columbians or whoever may be monitoring this site. THEREFORE, you are honest in what you say and are a coward (for not speaking up) or stupid (for speaking on here), or you’re masturbating on the thought of these alternative theories.


# watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:02 am

clothed in darkness meaning simian doesn’t really know what is going on?


# T K on June 30th, 2005 2:02 am

lol that was funny.


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 2:03 am

Shango,

How is Mary?


# T K on June 30th, 2005 2:03 am

neither one of them know any more than we do about this case.


# watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:03 am

Maybe the local authorities are afraid also? for themselves and their families?


# ******* on June 30th, 2005 2:03 am

Ydave - You’re right - these guys post a different theory every week as long as it does not implicate the VDS family. Even if Joran did not do it, he knows what happened with NH or where she went.

You can keep VDS safe in jail, but he will not be safe from the Holloways if he’s ever released.


# Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:04 am

Observe all communications from Shango and judge from their worth….

DirtyHand is the the Keystone!

The lamb is in ther fold, and the shivas.

Threadsurfers, if they cannot out a lamb to manger, how will they deal with lions?

DirtyHand is the key and may leave soon to avoid attention from the cowboys and the fort


# hope on

June 30th, 2005 2:04 am

Hopefully, authorities moniter these sites huh?


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 2:05 am

Dirty hand is the keystone … hes the staller.


# watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:06 am

The Holloways don’t think Jaron did it. Just that he could tell them more about that night. If something happened to him, the link would be gone.



# new girl on June 30th, 2005 2:06 am

THANK YOU for returning, Shango!

Ignore the people here who want to distract and deter the curious and the driven.

Have you read the thread? Am I following your clues? I have tried.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 15, 2008, 08:24:35 PM
Keep reading there are some posts here that a lot of Shango readers have not seen in a while....

#  Kristy on June 30th, 2005 2:06 am

Shango,

The scorned lover … an arwak, or babylonian? friend of the lamb ?


# ******* on June 30th, 2005 2:06 am

The locals on here make Aruba sound like a terrible place w/ ppl scared of drug mafia and the police and govt filled w/ corruption. I thought Aruba was a paradise before this. I hope a hurricane wipes out your island this summer.


# Michoo on June 30th, 2005 2:06 am

i cannot beleive people are actually thinking this shango guy/girl whatever is like for real. just like that person messaged:

shango what are you smoking!


# hope on June 30th, 2005 2:06 am

Sooooo “if they cannot out a lamb to manger” you mean let them go?


# Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:07 am

If the keystone falls, it will crush the lamb, the shivas, and the elder

the noise of the crashing arch shall scare the lions from their den

DirtyHand is the key to All!


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 2:07 am

They are protected from hurricanes …


# casanostra on June 30th, 2005 2:07 am

Does:
DirtyHand = Joran?
Lamb = Natalie?
Lions = Lorenzo and Co.?
# ******* on June 30th, 2005 2:07 am

New Girl - how can you call yourself “driven” - are you doing anything about this case?


# T K on June 30th, 2005 2:07 am

shango if you know so much then why dont you just tell everyone where Natalee is. Be done with your word games and speak clearly for once.



# southernbelle73f on June 30th, 2005 2:08 am

wb new girl…shango…wow i left for just a few minutes…i missed a lot



# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 2:09 am

You are wrong. You should view previous threads for clues. It took us a long time to decipher the code.

I feel like Shango believes he was told us where she is. We just cant figure it out.



# southernbelle73f on June 30th, 2005 2:09 am

Dirty hand= police chief
Lamb=joran
lions=lorenzo…dj…whoever else involved (i think)


# watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:09 am

out a lamb to manger - can’t get Jvds to talk?


# ******* on June 30th, 2005 2:10 am

southern girl - you have not missed anything - just a bunch of b.s. - what is the email address for greta or nancy grace - this meaningless speculation of theories on here is geting old. Shango - maybe we can summon you to appear as a witness


# hope on June 30th, 2005 2:10 am

Don’t waste time trying to get him to ” speak plainly” he won’t . He really seems right on about things


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 2:11 am

I feel like Shango believes he was told us where she is. We just cant figure it out.

I meant …….. he has told us ^^^


# Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:11 am

All Secrets are hidden in Plain View



# southernbelle73f on June 30th, 2005 2:11 am

shango…you mentioned a handicap…would this have anything to do with the golf course by close to the lighthouse or the mini golf course in oranjestad? you mentioned the other night about you having a handicap of 12



# Michoo on June 30th, 2005 2:11 am

******* Says:

June 30th, 2005 at 2:06 am
The locals on here make Aruba sound like a terrible place w/ ppl scared of drug mafia and the police and govt filled w/ corruption. I thought Aruba was a paradise before this. I hope a hurricane wipes out your island this summer.
______________________________________________________

i guess you have never been to aruba. if you had, you would never say such things.


# watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:11 am

Have to get DH to talk before he leaves?


# ******* on June 30th, 2005 2:11 am

Issue a summons to scaredmonkeys to find out who these posters are who claim to have credible information and force them to testify.


# T K on June 30th, 2005 2:11 am

I think new girl is losing it. lol She sounds like some cult follower over this Shango person.


# Ari on June 30th, 2005 2:11 am

Casanostra:

Lamb = Joran
Shivas = Brothers
Elder = PVDS

DirtyHand =? Chief of Police
Lions =? Inner circle in Aruba connected to casinos e.t.c.



# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 2:11 am

Again, Shango … how is Mary?


# bnk on June 30th, 2005 2:13 am

test


# ******* on June 30th, 2005 2:13 am

Michoo - you’re own fellow arubans talk about how the police, government officials and families would not speak the truth or expose the underground drug industry - don’t you agree that paints your society in a bad light?


# watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:13 am

Shango,

is Natalee close by her mother?



# southernbelle73f on June 30th, 2005 2:13 am

shango…yes please answer kristy…please


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 2:13 am

the cowboys must search at night … You cannot hear the music in the day.

Shango, Do you hear the music every night ?


# Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:13 am

The Arawaks make the cowboys dance so the smoke signals are lost in the wind

How can one hunt for lions without a local guide?

How can one hunt for lions with fishing gear?

DirtyHand still commands Arawak war parties, confusing outlanders…

Time is the enemy of the cowboys

and friend to the Arawaks, the Babylonians, and the hunted Jungle beasts



# watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:14 am

corruption is everywhere



# Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:14 am

Shango did not mention a Handicap

That was the fetid Simian



# ydave on June 30th, 2005 2:14 am

New girl and Checkme are afraid of the truth, because it involves Paulus and Joran VDS.

They are part of the team sent to distract readers and true Monkeys.



# T K on June 30th, 2005 2:16 am

if he has “told us” where she is Kristy. then he should be held AS accountable for whatever happens to Natalee as the people who took her. If he knows her where abouts he needs to speak clearly. He needs to let the police know that. If he doesn’t and it results in more bad things happening, I only hope that GOD punishes him for his little game. :) Although I still believe he is full of crap. ;)



# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 2:16 am

the dutch marines are coming to help … might they be a “local guide”


# ******* on June 30th, 2005 2:16 am

Has the VDS family paid Checkme and some other loyalists on here?



# watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:16 am

Shango,

some kind of undercover agent has to be sent into the rave underworld. before too much time has gone by?


# subdude on June 30th, 2005 2:16 am

DH = Police Chief
Arawak King = Prime Minister
Babylonians = Dutch
Lions = drug/prostitution/slavery cartel

Shango says that the chief, PM and Lions are running durgs, prostitutes and sex slaves and that teh VDSs and Kalpoes are in on it as well. One big happy family of scum

The Chief is the weakest link, the most easy to expose. VDSs and Kalpoes are talking to prosecutors. But the PM and Chief will say that they can not investigate the allegations because their hands are tied by Dutch law. This is one good way to check Shango’s veracity.

Raise hell about why Chief is resigning. Raise hell about why no one will look into allegations of drugs,hookers,sex slaves and see if we get some excuse from the PM about how its up to the Dutch to conduct the investigation. If you hear something along these lines, Shango’s Olorum is credible.

Federal Bureau, can you apply on pressure? Problem is investigation of corruption into Aruban gov’t has to be conducted by Dutch, most likely. Will Dutch do it?

International pressure might help, or Dutch government might tell the world to go to hell.

Make noise on this board for starters.



# casanostra on June 30th, 2005 2:17 am

DirtyHand is in the cage

Kept safe from the lions

Lamb is not safe from the lions

Croes was told to crow and now he is not to crow

He is of the same years as a Lion so he knows

Delicate balance not to be broken

Or it all comes crashing down


# southernbelle73f on June 30th, 2005 2:17 am

sorry bout that…i sometimes get y’all confused with all this cryptic talk


# bethany on June 30th, 2005 2:18 am

wow…just because posters are looking into other options instead of “JVDS did it” doesn’t mean that they are not true monkeys or here to distract.


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 2:18 am

yanno, they always say the biggest clues are right under our noses. Shango says … her father has been close. In fact, he said everyone has been close .. even missed evidence that was overlooked.

I feel like they are searching the wrong end of the island !!!! Go south !!


# Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:18 am

For those who think Shango has danced with the lions

or walked the maze

they have not read diligently

Eyes of God see from afar

If ye have truth, ask not how it was begotten…


# ******* on June 30th, 2005 2:18 am

A bunch of us lawyers should call the HOlloways and get on their legal team. It’s time to take action in our own hands. File a complaint against this board to reveal the identity of posters as this is a murder case - enough of a public interest to reveal identity and serve as witness. Fantasy time is over.


# Michoo on June 30th, 2005 2:18 am

the cowboys must search at night … You cannot hear the music in the day.

Shango, Do you hear the music every night
_________________________________________________

i guess your smoking what that shango cat is smoking…this is crazy stuff.

and to the obersver: i am from miami! my family and i have been visiting aruba for ten years…we go every year. in fact, some family members were there when nh was there. of course, they did not stay at the HI!


# Ari on June 30th, 2005 2:19 am

Kristy:

I don’t thing that Shango knows anything more about Mary’s fate than we do. He can make intelligent guesses, also extrapolate but that is all.


# hope on June 30th, 2005 2:21 am

How do we find out “where” Natalee rolled through the maze? Sorry fellow readers, but this is intruiging


# ydave on June 30th, 2005 2:22 am

Subdude says “Problem is investigation of corruption into Aruban gov’t has to be conducted by Dutch, most likely. Will Dutch do it?”

Subdude should know that the Police chief, the Attorney General, PVDS, and most of the officials of the Aruba justice ministry are from the Netherland. The friendship among them, and the inherent sentiment that they have to help one of their own are the reason why this investigation is getting nowhere.


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 2:22 am

I did not mean shango danced with the lions.

Michoo, I was asking Shango a question regarding something he has posted previously.


# Ari on June 30th, 2005 2:22 am

File a complaint against this board to reveal the identity of posters as this is a murder case

*******:

Get a US judge (any judge) to say (from the bench) that this is a murder case and I’ll give you $1,000.


# new girl on June 30th, 2005 2:22 am

“******* Says:

June 30th, 2005 at 2:07 am
New Girl - how can you call yourself “driven” - are you doing anything about this case?”

Such as WHAT? I have searched and searched for information to the limited extent that it is available to me. I have posted my thoughts about possible avenues that have been under-explored. I am not the media, I am not Aruban, I have no personal knowledge but only my brain to try to interpret what’s out there, and I am not law enforcement. I am not independently wealthy enough to fly to Aruba to try to bust up drug cartels by myself, and also I am female so I am not really eager to get my ass kicked or raped by busting the allegedly psycho-rapist-dog-killer’s-gang-rapists’s party house.

But by all means, feel free to stick your neck out if you want.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 15, 2008, 08:31:56 PM
Do I have your attention yet?   I hope so...there are more Shango riddles than what everyone has thought. Is anyone going hmmmmmm? 

#  Michoo on June 30th, 2005 2:23 am

“searching the wrong end of the island”

i can search the island in two days. One part of the island is like s. florida flat and green; the other, like nevada! get real people! shango/simian are full of shit…and if they are for real, they need to be the men they are and tell the authorities. …..!


# T K on June 30th, 2005 2:23 am

Yeah I think that he gets what he wants each time he posts. Everyone starts attacking each other, and then the outrageous ramblings begin again.


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 2:24 am

Ari,

Shango posted quite a bit about Mary in the past days. From afar, how is Mary? Is her fate secure?


# subdude on June 30th, 2005 2:25 am

Wasn’t the “casanostra” mentioned in the newgirl posts about Mansur and the drugs/money laundering cartel linked to Aruban PM?


# hope on June 30th, 2005 2:26 am

Is Natalee tucked away in a house somewhere? Close to the elder?


# Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:26 am

In your senseless rage you wave your sword recklessly

as such you would sever the limb even of a defender of the faith

If a bird whispers an evil secret, the listener is not the sinner!

Not all messages come from a terrestrial origin.

Believe.

When olorum speaks, lesser gods listen

but do not ask how it is they hear



# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 2:26 am

I dont attack anyone. I listen. Maybe you should too.

There isnt anything we can do, If indeed this is true. Seems as if … Hands are tied.


# watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:27 am

Are the VDS neighbors back from vacation, I wonder?


# ******* on June 30th, 2005 2:28 am

Ari - I think a judge would find that it’s more reasonable to conclude that this is a murder case (or perhaps voluntary or involuntary manslaughter) than a runaway case. What other alternative is there? Maybe kidnapping and that she’s still alive. But w/ Aruban authorities already implying that there’s little hope that she’ll be found alive, i think a U.S. judge can rely on that in calling this a murder case.

New girl - how old are you? You don’t have to fly to Aruba and face some Columbian drug lord to help - you can simply email anonymous tips. I guess I can do that in the morning, in addition to legal assistance.

Question - what does it mean to be a “monkey” - does the motto on the website “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil” really apply? we can theorize but just not speak out - just follow?


# T K on June 30th, 2005 2:29 am

Do you people honestly believe that the disappearance of Natalee has anything to do with a huge drug cartel and money laundering sceme??? Come on now. Why in the world would people in that deep risk everything over one 18 year old foreigner? It just does not make sense people. Her disappearance is much smaller than that, it is not some huge cover up. Unless she is something more than just a missing High school graduate from MB.


# watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:29 am

I think Subdude is on the right track about the media putting pressure on WHY the polis chief is leaving.


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 2:30 am

olorum = sun?


# hope on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am

*******– I would most def. hope these tips would reach the proper authorities. But should we not wait until at least some of these things are validated. Sorry this appears to offend you so much


# wreck on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am

are you olorum — or a follower? Is fate sealed or malleable?


# southernbelle73f on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am

shango…it was said earlier that country moon and others frequent this site and that all the clues that are given are passed along to Beth and the family memebers that are in Aruba


# ******* on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am

Kristy - simple question. You say that if this is true, hands are tied. What does that mean? What do you mean that hands are tied? That is the kind of defeatist attitude that is so frustrating.


# Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am

Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29.

He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens the door to the lions den


# watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am

I think it means that most people are supposed to be monkeys, but those that question things should be scared monkeys. but are questioning anyways.


# T K on June 30th, 2005 2:32 am

Kristy I wasnt speaking about you when I stated that people attack each other. Maybe you should read the other posts here and see who is attacking others. Besides why get all bent out of shape all of the sudden. You have been speaking your mind all night just like the reast of us. Some of just choose not to listen to Shango, because he refuses to speak clearly. If he knows so much then he should speak up about it in a way that will help Natalee.


# wreck on June 30th, 2005 2:33 am

TK - the drug lords are not responsible for Natalee’s fate — the COVERUP may lead to them. That is why they care.


# Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:33 am

TK - tributaries by definition stray from the river to leave the ocean



# BrodieGirl on June 30th, 2005 2:34 am

Is Olorum a sky god?


# watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:34 am

Shango,

is Natalee near to her mother? or do you not know that as of now?


# T K on June 30th, 2005 2:34 am

Question - what does it mean to be a “monkey” - does the motto on the website “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil” really apply? we can theorize but just not speak out - just follow?

That is a very nice question *******! I love it!


# Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:35 am

How long does a cat hold a mouse before eating it?


# casanostra on June 30th, 2005 2:35 am

I picked the casanostra as a name after doing much research as to their relationship to the island of Aruba and the drug trade, as well as other things that go along with it. Do some googling and find out for yourself. I think that Natalie is alive and that there are people on the island, and those that pass through the island that no one wants to mess with. There lies the predicament. You have a criminal element more powerful than the authorities and a chess game is being played. I think Joran is being protected, but he is also guilty of something. Not murder, but leading Natalie into something very sinister. I apologize if my speculation is in any way disrespectful to she or her family, but I find this very intriguing and it goes much deeper than what is implied on television.


# southernbelle73f on June 30th, 2005 2:35 am

ok so now how do we go about putting pressure on them to find out why this dude is trying to leave….especially in the middle of an investigation…but then didn’t they say something about his petition to go back in as cheif of polis being rejected (or something like that)?


# Michoo on June 30th, 2005 2:36 am

Olorum is:”Como its name in language yoruba indicates it, Olorum sends to the “gentleman or teacher to us of the sky”, to the star king, giver of light and life. It is for that reason that by those days we will be revitalized with its energy and we will be infected with the enthusiasm which vigilant overflowed in streets, seats and theaters of this aged ciudad”


# Ari on June 30th, 2005 2:36 am

T K:

I was not thinking in terms of a drug cartel, but in terms of underground cabaret/casino owners and their regular patrons. Abducted, imprisoned, on her own will, or something in between, I have no idea. Here is where everybody’s mind stops I think.


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 2:36 am

I didnt take anything personally. I just thought someone was referring to me. I dont hesitate to speak my mind. I understand some are not believers and I am fine with that.

Hands are tied was something Shango said. I was repeating.


# Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:36 am

Casanostra is standing at a window looking onto Babylon…


# subdude on June 30th, 2005 2:37 am

Olorum is the god of the sky, Kristy.

ydave, thanks, I am not familiar with Aruban govt.

What about Prime Minister? Not from the Netherland?

“The rule of the Arawak King is final word.”

Does the PM make the decision to investigate corruption of Chief of Police, Attorney General, JVDS? If PM decides not to investigate, is that the final word on the subject?

Is the PM elected? Appointed? Is he up for reelection or reappointment soon?


# ******* on June 30th, 2005 2:37 am

TK - were you being genuine when you complimented my question about the meaning of monkeys? It was a serious question. Why are ppl supposed to be monkeys (copy-cat/followers)? Hey, were you referring to me as the person who causes agitation and fighting among each other. I’m not trying to get others to attack each other — it’s clear who/what I’m attacking.


# Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:39 am

Why would the Arawaks fear a lamb, tiny toothed little beast?

The chieftan would sacrifice the lamb,

but the demons would not leave for such a petty sacrifice

The Lamb knows, but doesn’t rule

Lambs aren’t knigs of the Jungle


# hope on June 30th, 2005 2:39 am

So if the commissioner resigns is he open for questioning? Can he be arrested? He is withholding evidence and obstructing


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 2:39 am

the cat eats the mouse when it dies. Would the cat share his food ?


# ******* on June 30th, 2005 2:39 am

Is this a cult? Do I need to be a believer?


# new girl on June 30th, 2005 2:40 am

SUBDUDE (I’m yelling for you here, because I feel like some are trying to drown us out) - you asked “Federal Bureau, can you apply on pressure? Problem is investigation of corruption into Aruban gov’t has to be conducted by Dutch, most likely. Will Dutch do it?”

SUBDUDE, I might have thought Dutch, or Aruban Dutch, cooperation would be possible, but the “alleged” information I posted earlier from http://www.tni.org/archives/tblick/aruba.htm suggests that it COULD (maybe) be that the Dutch in Aruba are profiting the MOST from the money laundering, drug trafficking, associated banking, and the rest (other than perhaps Sicilians and ??? Sicilian-Columbians?.

LORD knows I AM NOT professing to know the truth here. But READ that article.

You do not have to rely on the anonymous “Shango” to accept the validity of this inquiry. It is ALL OVER the net, and (I bet it is all over academia) IF IF IF .. YOU CARE AT ALL, it is right there at your fingertips.


# T K on June 30th, 2005 2:40 am

No I was stating that I believe that Shango and Simian with there code cause the people to start attacking each other. Every time one of them post this starts up.

I was being genuine when I said I loved that question. It makes sense to ask that questions in reference to this type of discussion board. Because this type of discussion brings out all of those things (followers, copiers, and realist). All of that in one place makes for the great thought processes that end up coming out in the end.


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 2:40 am

Will the Dutch marines help any? or do they KNOW too.


# Michoo on June 30th, 2005 2:41 am

a monkey likes to play pranks…pull hair, tease. a monkey is of folly!

if they have not found her on that island, guess what…they are not going to. island is too small. half the island is rock and sand!


# Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:43 am

Direct Speech leads to homogenized thought

ShangoSpeak brings out all emotions, possibilities, and destinies!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 15, 2008, 08:34:10 PM
#  T K on June 30th, 2005 2:43 am

Shango Says:

June 30th, 2005 at 2:33 am
TK - tributaries by definition stray from the river to leave the ocean

Shango,

Doesnt a tributary also feed into something new like a larger river or lake? If you are calling yourself a “tributary” then what is it that you are trying to feed into??


# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 2:43 am

Will the lamb and the elder survive ?


# subdude on June 30th, 2005 2:44 am

casanostra: I believe you are right and the Polis Chief, Prime Minister, JVDS, PVDS the Kalpoes, Stephen Croes and Lorenzo VanRijn are all intertwined with casanostra dealing dope, prostitution, etc…

I think Joran gots his drugs to deal there and dabbled in the sex slave trade. PVDS pimped young girls as well. Remember “PIMPle is about to pop” right before PVDS arrest?


# casanostra on June 30th, 2005 2:44 am

Shango - am I off target in my assumption that the sinister forces control the power in this situation?


# ******* on June 30th, 2005 2:44 am

TK - are you a guy or girl? Where do you live?


# T K on June 30th, 2005 2:45 am

I am female and I live in the USA (NC).


# southernbelle73f on June 30th, 2005 2:47 am

Main Entry: 2ca ·po
Pronunciation: ‘kà ¤-(”)pO, ‘ka-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural capos
Etymology: Italian, head, chief, from Latin caput
: the head of a branch of a crime syndicate

shango mentioned that the capo had whispered


# ******* on June 30th, 2005 2:47 am

OK - mid-atlantic guy here - md area. you seem smarter than some others here.


# T K on June 30th, 2005 2:47 am

ShangoSpeak brings out all emotions, possibilities, and destinies!

That is the truest thing that I know you have said the whole time. But in the case of life or death, which is what we are talking about here. You need to use “Direct Speech


# heartache on June 30th, 2005 2:47 am

Well, if the polis chief is crooked than what about the rest of the force. Does this give new meaning to “Policemans Ball”? Do the patrolmen go round up young things for Mr. DirtyHand to play with? and typically speaking a cat will play around with it’s prey for a good , long while.



# southernbelle73f on June 30th, 2005 2:48 am

so are we talkin mafia?


# Michoo on June 30th, 2005 2:49 am

Direct Speech leads to homogenized thought
_________________________________________________

do you say you break uniformity in our thought process?


# watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:49 am

Michoo,

the smallest spots can have hiding places


# Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:50 am

Always remember that what is unseen is greater than what is seen

All has been seen from afar

and whispered by olorum to an earthbound son

I must leave to feed the messengers

The gods are talking

Good Night


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 15, 2008, 08:48:49 PM
# Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:07 am

If the keystone falls, it will crush the lamb, the shivas, and the elder

the noise of the crashing arch shall scare the lions from their den

DirtyHand is the key to All!



THE KEYSTONE COPS!!!!!!!

"Arawaks often go to play in the small houses of babylon with the offspring of the elders"

"........hand holding it dirty too"

DirtyHand is the link.......to the polis......his reach is long!!!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 15, 2008, 08:52:02 PM
his reach is long.......the long arm.....of the law


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 15, 2008, 08:53:03 PM
why......I wonder if he's ever been behind the wheel of a real polis car......if so, where were the polis? "playing?"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 15, 2008, 08:53:23 PM
 ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 15, 2008, 08:59:13 PM
Wow, LaLa'sMom...I've never seen this....

A few things really jumped out at me
Simian  June 2005
The Babylonians think she’s on her way to Panama with the help of the Carib.


(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/map-panama.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 15, 2008, 09:07:14 PM
This post hit hardest.....

# subdude on June 30th, 2005 2:16 am

DH = Police Chief
Arawak King = Prime Minister
Babylonians = Dutch
Lions = drug/prostitution/slavery cartel

Shango says that the chief, PM and Lions are running durgs, prostitutes and sex slaves and that teh VDSs and Kalpoes are in on it as well. One big happy family of scum

The Chief is the weakest link, the most easy to expose. VDSs and Kalpoes are talking to prosecutors. But the PM and Chief will say that they can not investigate the allegations because their hands are tied by Dutch law. This is one good way to check Shango’s veracity.

Raise hell about why Chief is resigning. Raise hell about why no one will look into allegations of drugs,hookers,sex slaves and see if we get some excuse from the PM about how its up to the Dutch to conduct the investigation. If you hear something along these lines, Shango’s Olorum is credible.

Federal Bureau, can you apply on pressure? Problem is investigation of corruption into Aruban gov’t has to be conducted by Dutch, most likely. Will Dutch do it?

International pressure might help, or Dutch government might tell the world to go to hell.

Make noise on this board for starters.





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 15, 2008, 09:23:03 PM
Seems like Shango knew in June about the Natural Bridge collapse in Sept.
A sign of the "Fall of Babylon"?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 15, 2008, 09:54:12 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:59 pm
DirtyHand can bring down all houses

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:56 pm
Shango is the god of justice
alive in many forms
he who speaks through Oxum through lightning
and himself through thunder
father of the violent dance
diviner of secrets of the seven levels of inferno (Tower)
bound to truth even as it burns
so that justice may be brought.

http://www.super-aruba-discount-hotels.com/discounts/aruba/wyndham-aruba-resort-and-casino-hotel/




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 15, 2008, 10:33:17 PM
I knew someone would be interested. ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 15, 2008, 10:53:34 PM
Were there any other posters that seemed to "know something"?

Shango....FL
Subdude..Miami
Robalo33...NE FL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 15, 2008, 11:22:14 PM
Were there any other posters that seemed to "know something"?

Shango....FL
Subdude..Miami
Robalo33...NE FL

Subdude was not Miami


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 16, 2008, 01:40:23 AM
Lala: Klaasend:

I need a List of all Lawyers in Aruba and that belong to the Lions club and that is a advisor to both the New Prime Minister and the one that left office as a Prime Minister.

This is What I now Believe what has happend by putting all the bits and peaces together.

This is my believe.

From Carlos and Charley, kalpoe's drop Joran and Natalee at the Holiday Inn.
Kalpoe's went home and hop on internet and chat.
 
From the Holiday in, someone (The DRIVER) brought them to the Whitehouse for Sex party.
Paul was also already there and waiting her.
 
When she died, the group when to the Park Apartment, Joran called Kalpoe's to meet him at The Park Apartment.
 
At he the Park Apartment Paul Instructed them what to say the next day. Paul was the one that couch them on what to say when authority comes to asked for them and to give statement on what happens to Natalee. The Kalpoe's were waiting at the Park Apartment for Natalee to returns but she never did. Kalpoe's never saw where Joran and (the Driver) dump the Body. they where not there.
 
While they were waiting for Natalee to return, Joran and (the DRIVER) went to search for a place to dump the body.
 
It was getting late around 3:35 and Joran and (the DRIVER) the driver decided to dump the body in one of the murky pool pond.
 
The DRIVER drop Joran with the body closeby to the pond.
The DRIVER decided to split when Joran was walking in the mud to reach the deep end of the murkey pool. When Joran disposed of the body, he walk back from the pond but lost the right foot shoe in the mud in the process.
 
When Joran came to the edge of the pond, he was alone, He call his dad to pick him up, but Paul did not know where Joran was.
 
The Kalpoe's went to look also for Joran but could not find him. and so was Paul.
 
Paul thought that Joran was at the CMB Bank but there is always a security guard at that place.
If he has check the Aruba Bank ATM, He would have notice the other security guard at that place also.
So Paul pretended to use The ATM Machine while Joran continue walking towards the McDonalds. on the secondary road.
 
Joran continue walking towards Mcdonald's and pass in front of the witness house.
The witness states that The Choller his body was cover all in mud from the waste down and also he siad he was missing the RIGHT FOOT Shoe. He said the Choller was walking towards Mcdonald.
 
Near McDonald Paul pict up his son who was walking towards the McDonalds. He picked him up and brought him home.
 
and so the next day, the whole story was a lie and cover-up till yesterday.
 
The Mystery Driver is a Lawyer according to Shango.
 
Shango say: the Fallen Judge and DirtyHand are of the same Hand. (They are of the same type either a Judge or a Lawyer)
 
So Dirtyhand is the DRIVER and he is either a Judge or a Lawyer that is eihter in the Lions CLub and is a cordinator or consultant that speak with both the Prime Minister and Henny Eman.
 
The Caps.

Was there a Judge or someone living on Paul property?




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 16, 2008, 06:51:50 AM
Good Morning...I posted this the other day in the main thread...as this is what I thought of when JQK said Natalee's body was not recoverable at this time...



The Natural Bridge – is located on the north east coast. It’s called the Natural Bridge
because it rises 25 feet above the sea and spans a hundred feet of rock-strewn waters carved out of solid coral by centuries of relentless pounding by the  Atlantic surf.  Collapsed 9-2-05

Satish…6/30 PV


On your question if I have ever been to the "Natural Bridge", I will answer yes. I have been on the North side of Aruba but I have never swum there.


Lala's...Thanks...I have to reread as I only scanned last night....





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 16, 2008, 07:08:33 AM
COLUMBO...I need the video...I think there was 3 ...of the surprise trip that Greta and Beth made to Aruba last year.

Remember Debbie, the make up artist...she opened a door into an apartment..they were saying it looked like someone lived there.

I remember Greta on the balcony and making a point of saying they were staying in a different hotel than they normally did...

Guess which hotel.....

fran09-30-2007, 12:02 PM
Apparently from Greta's blog, they had a hardtime getting into the country. They stayed at the Westin.They also visited C&C's? I wonder why?

The last place Natalee was seen alive by anyone other than the three :liar: suspects, was C&C. Therefore, IMO, it would make sense that Greta and Beth would visit there when doing a segment about the release of Beth's book.

JMHO
fran

Was Greta trying to tell us something?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 16, 2008, 11:11:56 AM
LaLa:
How come you did not sent the whole lis of converstation when I asked you before.

I have read not the Whole converation let me say this

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am

Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29.

He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens the door to the lions den

The Wather is the Bank Security gaurd.

The other thing is that shango says he can see from afar.

I think shango is the Helicoper Pilot that fly the Police helicopter over Aruba. They have a heavy light beam to search at Nignt and can see in the Night


The CAPS



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 16, 2008, 11:16:54 AM
You can not see the Hidden maze from plain view.

I do not own a Helicopter to hover over the Island ....So I use Google Earth to hover over dark places.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 16, 2008, 11:38:12 AM
LaLa:
How come you did not sent the whole lis of converstation when I asked you before.

I have read not the Whole converation let me say this

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am

Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29.

He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens the door to the lions den

The Wather is the Bank Security gaurd.

The other thing is that shango says he can see from afar.

I think shango is the Helicoper Pilot that fly the Police helicopter over Aruba. They have a heavy light beam to search at Nignt and can see in the Night


The CAPS



I didn't have it before.  What I gave you was the link to what SM had at the time.  Some of these posts are questionable as to if they are the genuine thing.  It was just yesterday when VMS posted something that I remembered where they were.  I was not trying to mislead you at all...I had forgotten about these.  They are not listed in my link I sent you the first time.  Actually, there are other posts scattered all over the internet by both Simian and Shango that I can't get to now. I had them on my first computer before the first time I was hacked.  I can't get them back...I have tried.  I have been spending lots of time trying to find them again for you.

BTW Shango clearly indicates that Dirty Hand is in the ALE or government.  Does Aruba consider lawyers part of the government down there?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 16, 2008, 11:45:46 AM
LaLa:
How come you did not sent the whole lis of converstation when I asked you before.

I have read not the Whole converation let me say this

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am

Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29.

He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens the door to the lions den

The Wather is the Bank Security gaurd.

The other thing is that shango says he can see from afar.

I think shango is the Helicoper Pilot that fly the Police helicopter over Aruba. They have a heavy light beam to search at Nignt and can see in the Night


The CAPS




Here is Watcher's 2:29 AM post:

# watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:29 am

I think Subdude is on the right track about the media putting pressure on WHY the polis chief is leaving.


Shango replies to this post here:

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am

Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29.



Again it is about the polis chief....and only the polis chief....it is about Dirty Hand.  Am I the only person on here that sees this?   :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 16, 2008, 12:00:37 PM
Lala: Klaasend:

I need a List of all Lawyers in Aruba and that belong to the Lions club and that is a advisor to both the New Prime Minister and the one that left office as a Prime Minister.

This is What I now Believe what has happend by putting all the bits and peaces together.

This is my believe.

From Carlos and Charley, kalpoe's drop Joran and Natalee at the Holiday Inn.
Kalpoe's went home and hop on internet and chat.
 
From the Holiday in, someone (The DRIVER) brought them to the Whitehouse for Sex party.
Paul was also already there and waiting her.
 
When she died, the group when to the Park Apartment, Joran called Kalpoe's to meet him at The Park Apartment.
 
At he the Park Apartment Paul Instructed them what to say the next day. Paul was the one that couch them on what to say when authority comes to asked for them and to give statement on what happens to Natalee. The Kalpoe's were waiting at the Park Apartment for Natalee to returns but she never did. Kalpoe's never saw where Joran and (the Driver) dump the Body. they where not there.
 
While they were waiting for Natalee to return, Joran and (the DRIVER) went to search for a place to dump the body.
 
It was getting late around 3:35 and Joran and (the DRIVER) the driver decided to dump the body in one of the murky pool pond.
 
The DRIVER drop Joran with the body closeby to the pond.
The DRIVER decided to split when Joran was walking in the mud to reach the deep end of the murkey pool. When Joran disposed of the body, he walk back from the pond but lost the right foot shoe in the mud in the process.
 
When Joran came to the edge of the pond, he was alone, He call his dad to pick him up, but Paul did not know where Joran was.
 
The Kalpoe's went to look also for Joran but could not find him. and so was Paul.
 
Paul thought that Joran was at the CMB Bank but there is always a security guard at that place.
If he has check the Aruba Bank ATM, He would have notice the other security guard at that place also.
So Paul pretended to use The ATM Machine while Joran continue walking towards the McDonalds. on the secondary road.
 
Joran continue walking towards Mcdonald's and pass in front of the witness house.
The witness states that The Choller his body was cover all in mud from the waste down and also he siad he was missing the RIGHT FOOT Shoe. He said the Choller was walking towards Mcdonald.
 
Near McDonald Paul pict up his son who was walking towards the McDonalds. He picked him up and brought him home.
 
and so the next day, the whole story was a lie and cover-up till yesterday.
 
The Mystery Driver is a Lawyer according to Shango.
 
Shango say: the Fallen Judge and DirtyHand are of the same Hand. (They are of the same type either a Judge or a Lawyer)
 
So Dirtyhand is the DRIVER and he is either a Judge or a Lawyer that is eihter in the Lions CLub and is a cordinator or consultant that speak with both the Prime Minister and Henny Eman.
 
The Caps.

Was there a Judge or someone living on Paul property?

Caps..I have been a little confused as to whether Judge Witt was there that weekend or the weekend of the search 6/15. He states it would have been a conflict of interest to allow the search as he was staying with Anita and Paulus.

I will have to find what I quoted, but it is not clear what he was referring to!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 16, 2008, 12:09:56 PM
On one of my old hard drives I had saved a post from Shango about water or waters.  I found it on a yahoo site around August of 2005. I do not have any of that now either.  I have since tried to find it, but I can't.  If I had known what I do now...I would have made more copies of it. 

If we think in terms of Simian and Shango being the same person (just thinking here, I know Colombo has said this before) then we have to assume that they were being fed info from the same source.  Since I know the IP's are in different locations that might change things...but...I also know that Aruban IP's can also show up as being in the USA.  Simian was plain spoken to an extent (too bad he didn't speak plainly about that darn 5th suspect) and Shango wanted to entice us all with riddles and rhymes.  Some of the early posters (I mean within the first 30 days or so) also began to think they were the same person. 

When you think of Simian...you must also think of Merian Ernst.  Their writing style and veiled references to each other is unmistakable.  They were either the very same person or were well known to each other.  You have to read them together even though they posted at different times...they are most likley one and the same person or persons. 

So is Shango the same person as Simian and Merian?  Did Shango know Shock and Checkme or was it the other way around?  Were they playing off each other or trying to one up each other...I say they were competing for the bloggers attentions at the time.  It could be true that Shango had no real knowledge of anything...that he was as Michoo, the poster, said.  Just a college student with time on his hands.  For a student he sure knew some things that were happening on the island at the time, didn't he?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 16, 2008, 12:12:09 PM
LaLa:
How come you did not sent the whole lis of converstation when I asked you before.

I have read not the Whole converation let me say this

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am

Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29.

He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens the door to the lions den

The Wather is the Bank Security gaurd.

The other thing is that shango says he can see from afar.

I think shango is the Helicoper Pilot that fly the Police helicopter over Aruba. They have a heavy light beam to search at Nignt and can see in the Night


The CAPS



I didn't have it before.  What I gave you was the link to what SM had at the time.  Some of these posts are questionable as to if they are the genuine thing.  It was just yesterday when VMS posted something that I remembered where they were.  I was not trying to mislead you at all...I had forgotten about these.  They are not listed in my link I sent you the first time.  Actually, there are other posts scattered all over the internet by both Simian and Shango that I can't get to now. I had them on my first computer before the first time I was hacked.  I can't get them back...I have tried.  I have been spending lots of time trying to find them again for you.

BTW Shango clearly indicates that Dirty Hand is in the ALE or government.  Does Aruba consider lawyers part of the government down there?

Yes the government has his own set of lawyers and only work for the Government.

The Lawyers also represents a group that work hand in hand with the OM.


I was wondering which lawyer was on the Roll that night to handel the cases.

On the Roll means (schedule) How I know this is that my uncle is a Lawyer and He always talk abaout to have Roll duty.

It means that he is on the evening list to handel cases comming in that night. it can also be a sub prosecuter.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 16, 2008, 12:40:00 PM
Caps
Tell me about a person on Aruba named Andres Meneses and a friend of his Maria Bernadeta Kelly? Andres was questioned many times and so far we have found little to connect him other than he was involved in photography of airplanes.  Does any of that go along with what you are thinking?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 16, 2008, 12:48:42 PM
Caps
Tell me about a person on Aruba named Andres Meneses and a friend of his Maria Bernadeta Kelly? Andres was questioned many times and so far we have found little to connect him other than he was involved in photography of airplanes.  Does any of that go along with what you are thinking?

This is exactly the person I was thinking of from Caps post....

Is he not from Costa Rica?... I read something on him recently...a crash with a reporter...not sure if it was a plane or helicopter???


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 16, 2008, 12:50:18 PM
The witness state that the Bird was constantly moving in circle around the area that night..

and the bird normaly will wake you up and one will tent to go look up in the sky of what is going on. and wonder.

some take pictures. If picture was taken, the Man in the bird with his power beam will see you taken pictures. and can zoom in to see who you are.

so allways stay away of the Birds.

The issue of the Lawyer on the Roll Duty.

Here is what the CPT says after audit Aruba

Read it in full

http://www.cpt.coe.int/documents/nld/1996-27-inf-eng-1.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 16, 2008, 12:53:53 PM
Caps
Tell me about a person on Aruba named Andres Meneses and a friend of his Maria Bernadeta Kelly? Andres was questioned many times and so far we have found little to connect him other than he was involved in photography of airplanes.  Does any of that go along with what you are thinking?

This is exactly the person I was thinking of from Caps post....

Is he not from Costa Rica?... I read something on him recently...a crash with a reporter...not sure if it was a plane or helicopter???

GMTA!  LOL  Both of those people were considered witnesses.  So what would they have witnessed? Also, why is it that Steve Croes is questioned many time during that year?  His alibi was proven unnecessary to the case since the Kalpoes and Joran both admitted the HI story was a lie.   Yet, the ALE knew something that Steve Croes was involved in and just kept at him.  Hmmmmmm.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 16, 2008, 12:55:59 PM
The witness state that the Bird was constantly moving in circle around the area that night..

and the bird normaly will wake you up and one will tent to go look up in the sky of what is going on. and wonder.

some take pictures. If picture was taken, the Man in the bird with his power beam will see you taken pictures. and can zoom in to see who you are.

so allways stay away of the Birds.

The issue of the Lawyer on the Roll Duty.

Here is what the CPT says after audit Aruba

Read it in full

http://www.cpt.coe.int/documents/nld/1996-27-inf-eng-1.htm


The "Bird" could have been another reference to Merian Ernst's Yellowhammer reference meaning Natalee. Then again, that may not even be one of Shango's posts...it could be his doppleganger too.  I think there were multiple persons posting as Shango all along.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 16, 2008, 01:01:23 PM
I have another dumb question..but it just came to me and I am wondering if anyone knows the answer.

Carlos Penata Ramos....the gardener that was the witness to seeing Joran, Deepak and someone else in the car near the Raquet Club was questioned on 7/26/05 by ALE.  Then he is questioned again 8/11/05 concerning a "boat crew list".  What does walking from one house to another and seeing a car that looks like Deepak's have to do with a list of a boat crew?  What boat?  What crew?  Did he work on a boat too and was only a gardener part time?  Anyone? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 16, 2008, 01:04:11 PM
Also, what did the FBI know concerning Paul Brough(Mr. Pink) that merits the subpoena of his cell phone records on August 9, 2005? 


And who is Joseph Casandra?  An American on the trip or what?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 16, 2008, 01:07:15 PM
Good afternoon Lala's....only got to the first sentence...LOL...Didn't Simian say he went to visit KIA when it was opened? Through school or something? May give us a hint to his age.

In addition, the delegation visited the former Dakota Prison, located in Oranjestad, which was taken out of service in September 1990, date of opening of the KIA.


Lala's...I saw that boat crew list and was going to ask about it!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 16, 2008, 01:13:57 PM
Also, what did the FBI know concerning Paul Brough(Mr. Pink) that merits the subpoena of his cell phone records on August 9, 2005? 


And who is Joseph Casandra?  An American on the trip or what?

Not familiar with Joseph - who interviewed him?

I have a list somewhere of all the peeps on the log that I didn't know anything about, but have never got back to it.

Interesting one, forgot the name, ASI student interviewed 3 times. did a quick search a couple of weeks back...nothing!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 16, 2008, 02:23:38 PM
Also, what did the FBI know concerning Paul Brough(Mr. Pink) that merits the subpoena of his cell phone records on August 9, 2005? 


And who is Joseph Casandra?  An American on the trip or what?

Not familiar with Joseph - who interviewed him?

I have a list somewhere of all the peeps on the log that I didn't know anything about, but have never got back to it.

Interesting one, forgot the name, ASI student interviewed 3 times. did a quick search a couple of weeks back...nothing!

Casandra was interviewed by the FBI. In Birmingham.  Shipley (FBI agent) is out of that office.  He had to be one of the MB teens...why him?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 16, 2008, 02:30:36 PM
Who is Loenardo Lopez Riveria?  Jacobs and Soemers spoke to him the same day as Satish was interrogated and Carmen was interviewed on what is believed to be an alibi for Freddy and Joran.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 16, 2008, 02:48:16 PM
Good afternoon Lala's....only got to the first sentence...LOL...Didn't Simian say he went to visit KIA when it was opened? Through school or something? May give us a hint to his age.

In addition, the delegation visited the former Dakota Prison, located in Oranjestad, which was taken out of service in September 1990, date of opening of the KIA.


Lala's...I saw that boat crew list and was going to ask about it!

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 11:41 am
To whoever made comment: I have taken a tour of the facility and even spent a night in there when it was inaugurated. So have everybody in my gradutating class at Colegio Arubano who wanted to participate.



September 1990, date of opening of the KIA.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 16, 2008, 02:59:54 PM
Good afternoon Lala's....only got to the first sentence...LOL...Didn't Simian say he went to visit KIA when it was opened? Through school or something? May give us a hint to his age.

In addition, the delegation visited the former Dakota Prison, located in Oranjestad, which was taken out of service in September 1990, date of opening of the KIA.


Lala's...I saw that boat crew list and was going to ask about it!

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 11:41 am
To whoever made comment: I have taken a tour of the facility and even spent a night in there when it was inaugurated. So have everybody in my gradutating class at Colegio Arubano who wanted to participate.



September 1990, date of opening of the KIA.



Thanks vms....that would make him around 32 in 2005...or maybe her!

That Riveria kid is the one that was questioned 3 times...that is what I thought as strange

Lala's...I don't know why I thought this, but had always associated Carmen and Karen with the girls coming forward with the allegations against the pimps. I may have just formed my opinion from the book, but believe it had to do with the dates that I thought Freddy became a suspect. He appeared differently on the log after Karen was interviewed and up until Carmen was....Yep...It was the latter ...LOL

Thanks again for posting all those posts Lala's...I had intended to read them today, but was having a hard time concentrating!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 16, 2008, 03:08:21 PM
Good afternoon Lala's....only got to the first sentence...LOL...Didn't Simian say he went to visit KIA when it was opened? Through school or something? May give us a hint to his age.

In addition, the delegation visited the former Dakota Prison, located in Oranjestad, which was taken out of service in September 1990, date of opening of the KIA.


Lala's...I saw that boat crew list and was going to ask about it!

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 11:41 am
To whoever made comment: I have taken a tour of the facility and even spent a night in there when it was inaugurated. So have everybody in my gradutating class at Colegio Arubano who wanted to participate.



September 1990, date of opening of the KIA.



Thanks vms....that would make him around 32 in 2005...or maybe her!

That Riveria kid is the one that was questioned 3 times...that is what I thought as strange

Lala's...I don't know why I thought this, but had always associated Carmen and Karen with the girls coming forward with the allegations against the pimps. I may have just formed my opinion from the book, but believe it had to do with the dates that I thought Freddy became a suspect. He appeared differently on the log after Karen was interviewed and up until Carmen was....Yep...It was the latter ...LOL

Thanks again for posting all those posts Lala's...I had intended to read them today, but was having a hard time concentrating!


They are listed as friends.  Not complainants or whatever.  You could be right.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 16, 2008, 03:10:32 PM
Also, what did the FBI know concerning Paul Brough(Mr. Pink) that merits the subpoena of his cell phone records on August 9, 2005? 


And who is Joseph Casandra?  An American on the trip or what?

Not familiar with Joseph - who interviewed him?

I have a list somewhere of all the peeps on the log that I didn't know anything about, but have never got back to it.

Interesting one, forgot the name, ASI student interviewed 3 times. did a quick search a couple of weeks back...nothing!

Casandra was interviewed by the FBI. In Birmingham.  Shipley (FBI agent) is out of that office.  He had to be one of the MB teens...why him?


Lala's...what date is this?...I can't find him....told you I couldn't concentrate!  TIA...Casandra...I mean...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 16, 2008, 03:24:14 PM
Title: Email from Joseph Casandra E(MM)(FBX)
Date: 08/09/2005 10:17 am
Location: None (Electronic email)
File #: none
Initiator. Shipley,Douglas S(BB)(FBI)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1098.0;prev_next=prev


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 16, 2008, 03:27:51 PM
Title: Email from Joseph Casandra E(MM)(FBX)
Date: 08/09/2005 10:17 am
Location: None (Electronic email)
File #: none
Initiator. Shipley,Douglas S(BB)(FBI)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1098.0;prev_next=prev

Thanks.  I almost posted the same thing until I saw you. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 16, 2008, 06:26:09 PM
Here is the link for Beth and Greta's trip to Aruba...I haven't had a chance to watch them again. Scroll to Oct 1st.

     http://gretawire.foxnews.com/tag/debi-the-make-up-artist/page/2/




   


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 16, 2008, 07:07:45 PM
wow........."whole 7th floor"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 16, 2008, 07:16:47 PM
good thing somebody else could walk inside that room and bring the real key


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 16, 2008, 07:21:05 PM
wow........."whole 7th floor"


LOL...you are so NOT funny...I can't watch these now as DH is sleeping and I don't recall that much about them.

MORE CLUES PLEASE!!!!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 16, 2008, 07:21:22 PM
sirens singing a poison song......all will get sick


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 16, 2008, 07:22:32 PM
DH walks with the Babylonians

will soon leave

St Maarten?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 16, 2008, 07:23:32 PM
really need to know the passages well


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 16, 2008, 07:28:16 PM
great house (overlooking babylon) will tumble down, crush teepees

DH holds key to unlocking unknown doors


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JuJu on February 16, 2008, 08:00:43 PM
geez...been working too many hours to count and haven't been here for a while.....last time I was here there was maybe 40 pages on this thread........hey Lala's got any cliff notes?    ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 16, 2008, 08:08:17 PM
Chata:

watch those clips?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 16, 2008, 08:27:29 PM
Here is the link for Beth and Greta's trip to Aruba...I haven't had a chance to watch them again. Scroll to Oct 1st.

     http://gretawire.foxnews.com/tag/debi-the-make-up-artist/page/2/




   

That was extensively discussed on the NAH thread at the time...in fact, I was even called on the phone to be sure I was aware of her comment.  7th level of inferno and all.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 16, 2008, 08:29:57 PM
geez...been working too many hours to count and haven't been here for a while.....last time I was here there was maybe 40 pages on this thread........hey Lala's got any cliff notes?    ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyWink::

We are pretty much right where you left off..with a little confusion thrown in for good measure. LOL  Why don't you read a few pages starting around 52 and then skip up to around page 100.  That should help a little...sorta...kinda...maybe.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 16, 2008, 08:32:02 PM
Here is the link for Beth and Greta's trip to Aruba...I haven't had a chance to watch them again. Scroll to Oct 1st.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/tag/debi-the-make-up-artist/page/2/

This is the Marriott Hotel
There is nothing like "intuition"!

Greta, Beth & crew on 5th floor
This attractive woman alone on 7th floor ("Honeymoon Suites") ??

Same as Beth's "intuition" at the vds house.
She must have recognized Tiko's sounds and reacted.
The "Paulus waterworks" began....IMO.

In reference to Shango's "7 levels of inferno (hell)...she entered the maze"
Could the maze be all these hotels "7th floor"?

Marriott............Honeymoon Suites
Holiday Inn....... Posner had a suite on 7th floor
Allegro.............(1) Presidential Suite/Floors 7-8-9 Timeshare/suites
(Wyndham..........I think it has 14 floors)

   


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 16, 2008, 08:47:47 PM
JuJu...if it helps we discussed Dirty Hand...Didn't you just ask about the second fellow Lala's?

Posted on the front page of SM: and Stolen from the main thread..

hoepelman wrote:


There were only two Dutchmen: v/d Sloot and Vocking. Vocking is the one that had all the connections to arrange things in Paul’s favor. He’s the one that probably came up with the security guards ploy, he’s the one that obtained a last minute suspension for the order to search the main v/d Sloot house, he’s the one that got the prison connection to smuggle Joran a phone, he was probably the one that gave Joran instructions on how to behave during interrogation, he’s the one that left Aruba quietly and everyone is slowly forgetting his role, as the key player trafficking influence.

There was an Aruban also, Police pokesperson Comemencia. At the initial stage of the investigation, he gave too many the press too many details to justify Paulu’s behaviour and actions, as if he was intentionally trying to steer negative opinions away from the v/d Sloots…very suspicious, since he was the Police Department spokesperson, and not the suspect’s family’s PR representative.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 16, 2008, 08:51:23 PM
Here is the link for Beth and Greta's trip to Aruba...I haven't had a chance to watch them again. Scroll to Oct 1st.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/tag/debi-the-make-up-artist/page/2/

This is the Marriott Hotel
There is nothing like "intuition"!

Greta, Beth & crew on 5th floor
This attractive woman alone on 7th floor ("Honeymoon Suites") ??

Same as Beth's "intuition" at the vds house.
She must have recognized Tiko's sounds and reacted.
The "Paulus waterworks" began....IMO.

In reference to Shango's "7 levels of inferno (hell)...she entered the maze"
Could the maze be all these hotels "7th floor"?

Marriott............Honeymoon Suites
Holiday Inn....... Posner had a suite on 7th floor
Allegro.............(1) Presidential Suite/Floors 7-8-9 Timeshare/suites
(Wyndham..........I think it has 14 floors)

   


Remember all the floors have a seven in them...or something like that.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 16, 2008, 08:55:22 PM
JuJu...if it helps we discussed Dirty Hand...Didn't you just ask about the second fellow Lala's?

Posted on the front page of SM: and Stolen from the main thread..

hoepelman wrote:


There were only two Dutchmen: v/d Sloot and Vocking. Vocking is the one that had all the connections to arrange things in Paul’s favor. He’s the one that probably came up with the security guards ploy, he’s the one that obtained a last minute suspension for the order to search the main v/d Sloot house, he’s the one that got the prison connection to smuggle Joran a phone, he was probably the one that gave Joran instructions on how to behave during interrogation, he’s the one that left Aruba quietly and everyone is slowly forgetting his role, as the key player trafficking influence.

There was an Aruban also, Police pokesperson Comemencia. At the initial stage of the investigation, he gave too many the press too many details to justify Paulu’s behaviour and actions, as if he was intentionally trying to steer negative opinions away from the v/d Sloots…very suspicious, since he was the Police Department spokesperson, and not the suspect’s family’s PR representative.



Actually King was also suspected of being dirty hand. A poster that I gave hard time here once made the speculation.  I have to admit it is very possible.  Kermit said that Bernadina is the Chief of Police...there is certainly a problem in the terminology translation as to who is the police chief or the police commissioner. Depends on what news source you read as to how they use the term.

Comemencia is the person I referred to as Papi the Butterfly...from Merian Ernst.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 16, 2008, 08:58:02 PM
Natalee's room was #7114 - ground floor - was the next floor #7214?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 16, 2008, 09:01:07 PM
Look at it this way...people in positions to help Paulus...Jan van der Straten, Ben King (Vocking), Rudy Croes, Dennis Jacobs, Ronnie Bernadina. Then let's not forget those others...Jean Akers...Karen Jansen...Nelson Oduber...and the list goes on.  Seems there was indeed a confession of some kind and when Paulus was told Joran confessed the cover up began...it went from one hand to another until so many were involved that it had to be covered up in order to "maintain the integrity of the great house" sotospeak.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 16, 2008, 09:05:12 PM
JuJu...if it helps we discussed Dirty Hand...Didn't you just ask about the second fellow Lala's?

Posted on the front page of SM: and Stolen from the main thread..

hoepelman wrote:


There were only two Dutchmen: v/d Sloot and Vocking. Vocking is the one that had all the connections to arrange things in Paul’s favor. He’s the one that probably came up with the security guards ploy, he’s the one that obtained a last minute suspension for the order to search the main v/d Sloot house, he’s the one that got the prison connection to smuggle Joran a phone, he was probably the one that gave Joran instructions on how to behave during interrogation, he’s the one that left Aruba quietly and everyone is slowly forgetting his role, as the key player trafficking influence.

There was an Aruban also, Police pokesperson Comemencia. At the initial stage of the investigation, he gave too many the press too many details to justify Paulu’s behaviour and actions, as if he was intentionally trying to steer negative opinions away from the v/d Sloots…very suspicious, since he was the Police Department spokesperson, and not the suspect’s family’s PR representative.



Actually King was also suspected of being dirty hand. A poster that I gave hard time here once made the speculation.  I have to admit it is very possible.  Kermit said that Bernadina is the Chief of Police...there is certainly a problem in the terminology translation as to who is the police chief or the police commissioner. Depends on what news source you read as to how they use the term.

Comemencia is the person I referred to as Papi the Butterfly...from Merian Ernst.


Yes...I have seen a few of his posts...many dirty hands....

I have been thinking about van der Straten and Jossy saying he is a good man.

Well if Jossy was asked 'What about van der Straten?'  He could answer that he was a good man? As in a good guy...I don't remember the question that was posed to Jossy regarding him and KJ.....I just think he's Dirty!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 16, 2008, 09:08:38 PM
Natalee's room was #7114 - ground floor - was the next floor #7214?

Right....Holiday Inn has 3 wings/towers
Aruba, Bonaire & Curacao
Natalee was on first floor of Curacao wing
Same wing as Posner when he was on 7th floor
(Holiday Inn 7th floor has a freight elevator that goes to the basement)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 16, 2008, 09:14:04 PM
Natalee's room was #7114 - ground floor - was the next floor #7214?

Right....Holiday Inn has 3 wings/towers
Aruba, Bonaire & Curacao
Natalee was on first floor of Curacao wing
Same wing as Posner when he was on 7th floor
(Holiday Inn 7th floor has a freight elevator that goes to the basement)


So all that tower would have a 7 in it?  7114, 7214,7314 etc


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 16, 2008, 09:15:19 PM
same statement-stated differently?

The Lamb and the two Shivas whisper in the dark,
while the lions pace silently in the bush.
Dirty Hand is the link! (between lions and babylonians)

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the note$ (follow the money)
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation (lions)
meet, under cover of delusion.

He (DirtyHand) holds the real key (to the poison house)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon?
DirtyHand knows, this is his Power

there will be 46 sacrifices (the answer is "yes")

# # # # # # # # # # #

again, same statements stated differently:

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll
ask the men who play dice and “roll”
 
next post-

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:32 pm
THE DRAX SCORES
drax Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles=
they weren’t on the beach?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 16, 2008, 09:27:16 PM
Natalee's room was #7114 - ground floor - was the next floor #7214?

Right....Holiday Inn has 3 wings/towers
Aruba, Bonaire & Curacao
Natalee was on first floor of Curacao wing
Same wing as Posner when he was on 7th floor
(Holiday Inn 7th floor has a freight elevator that goes to the basement)


So all that tower would have a 7 in it?  7114, 7214,7314 etc


Debra...do you know how the other hotels were numbered ie Marriott, Wyndham and Allegro? TIA

COLUMBO...you are not on ignore...I am too tired to remember what you said the lions were the other day and therefore I'm stick on the link....LOL...lost cause here


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 16, 2008, 09:45:38 PM
Mum:

Along a suggestion by Caps....What are notes?

All the gamblers knew was written down

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation
meet, under cover of delusion.
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.
Tell the cowboys!




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 16, 2008, 09:55:12 PM
JuJu...if it helps we discussed Dirty Hand...Didn't you just ask about the second fellow Lala's?

Posted on the front page of SM: and Stolen from the main thread..

hoepelman wrote:


There were only two Dutchmen: v/d Sloot and Vocking. Vocking is the one that had all the connections to arrange things in Paul’s favor. He’s the one that probably came up with the security guards ploy, he’s the one that obtained a last minute suspension for the order to search the main v/d Sloot house, he’s the one that got the prison connection to smuggle Joran a phone, he was probably the one that gave Joran instructions on how to behave during interrogation, he’s the one that left Aruba quietly and everyone is slowly forgetting his role, as the key player trafficking influence.

There was an Aruban also, Police pokesperson Comemencia. At the initial stage of the investigation, he gave too many the press too many details to justify Paulu’s behaviour and actions, as if he was intentionally trying to steer negative opinions away from the v/d Sloots…very suspicious, since he was the Police Department spokesperson, and not the suspect’s family’s PR representative.



Actually King was also suspected of being dirty hand. A poster that I gave hard time here once made the speculation.  I have to admit it is very possible.  Kermit said that Bernadina is the Chief of Police...there is certainly a problem in the terminology translation as to who is the police chief or the police commissioner. Depends on what news source you read as to how they use the term.

Comemencia is the person I referred to as Papi the Butterfly...from Merian Ernst.


Yes...I have seen a few of his posts...many dirty hands....

I have been thinking about van der Straten and Jossy saying he is a good man.

Well if Jossy was asked 'What about van der Straten?'  He could answer that he was a good man? As in a good guy...I don't remember the question that was posed to Jossy regarding him and KJ.....I just think he's Dirty!!!

I remember the question...it was one I submitted to Dana for Jossy.  Something along the lines of does he still have confidence that van der Straten is trying to solve this case.  I also asked Dana to ask Jossy who would have the power to keep this covered up (something like that) and Jossy said Paulus brother.  The same one that they have been discussing in the NAH thread.  See, I do pay attention.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 16, 2008, 10:02:38 PM
same statement-stated differently?

The Lamb and the two Shivas whisper in the dark,
while the lions pace silently in the bush.
Dirty Hand is the link! (between lions and babylonians)

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the note$ (follow the money)
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation (lions)
meet, under cover of delusion.

He (DirtyHand) holds the real key (to the poison house)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon?
DirtyHand knows, this is his Power

there will be 46 sacrifices (the answer is "yes")

# # # # # # # # # # #

again, same statements stated differently:

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll
ask the men who play dice and “roll”
 
next post-

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:32 pm
THE DRAX SCORES
drax Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles=
they weren’t on the beach?


Yes even Caps agrees with that...they did not go to the beach.  That is why Joran said they did.  That is also why he claims to have used a pay phone that has only international calling on it...he didn't know it was that way...he never used that phone.  He used the cell phone he had in his pocket and it was only after they were at the huts tying to break in for that cage that they may not have even used after all.  Yes, he was in a few places according to his own cell phone...the fisherman's huts area near the Marriott...the McDonald's at 2:26 AM...the racquet club area...and his house.

That reminds me of something I have been wanting to ask...I need to go find it.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 16, 2008, 10:10:47 PM
provided he was the one carrying the phone at that time


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 16, 2008, 10:33:55 PM
Lala :

What time didi Paul said that he went to the ATM?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on February 16, 2008, 11:15:50 PM
Lala :

What time didi Paul said that he went to the ATM?



Caps,
This is not Lala, and she may know more about this than I do but I'm going to tell you what I know.  I don't think Paul has ever admitted to making any ATM transactions.  One timeline I have shows someone making an ATM withdrawal from his account at the bank across from the McDonald's at 3am, and another withdrawal at 3:45am. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 16, 2008, 11:30:43 PM
Lala :

What time didi Paul said that he went to the ATM?



Caps,
This is not Lala, and she may know more about this than I do but I'm going to tell you what I know.  I don't think Paul has ever admitted to making any ATM transactions.  One timeline I have shows someone making an ATM withdrawal from his account at the bank across from the McDonald's at 3am, and another withdrawal at 3:45am. 

Thank you, This was the prove I needed and now do yo know what ATM.

There is two, The Aruba Bank and The CMB



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on February 16, 2008, 11:35:21 PM
Lala :

What time didi Paul said that he went to the ATM?



Caps,
This is not Lala, and she may know more about this than I do but I'm going to tell you what I know.  I don't think Paul has ever admitted to making any ATM transactions.  One timeline I have shows someone making an ATM withdrawal from his account at the bank across from the McDonald's at 3am, and another withdrawal at 3:45am. 

Thank you, This was the prove I needed and now do yo know what ATM.

There is two, The Aruba Bank and The CMB



Aruba Bank


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 16, 2008, 11:44:55 PM
The Aruba bank is not across McDonalds. There is no bank Across the Mc Donalds

Do You Have My Emial


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 16, 2008, 11:46:51 PM
The time is correct and the bank is correct but the location is wrong


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 16, 2008, 11:51:43 PM
The time is correct and the bank is correct but the location is wrong


Capslock - I don't think it was ever verified or admitted by PVDS that he used the ATM that night.  It may have happened it's just not verified.  The only reference to the bank is in PVDS June 23, 2005 statement:

"To your question if I tell you all the things I did on that
Monday the 30th of May 2005, I can state the following. I went to work.
The exact time I cannot remember but I think it was approximately
08.00 hours. I can also remember that around 10.00 hours I went
to the C.M.B. bank
. There were long cues at the bank so I left without
having made any transaction and went back to work. I left my workplace
at approximately 15.00 hours. I arrived at the bank at approximately 15.30.
 I had gone to the C.M.B. bank that is situated in Noord."


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 17, 2008, 12:06:34 AM
The time is correct and the bank is correct but the location is wrong


Capslock - I don't think it was ever verified or admitted by PVDS that he used the ATM that night.  It may have happened it's just not verified.  The only reference to the bank is in PVDS June 23, 2005 statement:

"To your question if I tell you all the things I did on that
Monday the 30th of May 2005, I can state the following. I went to work.
The exact time I cannot remember but I think it was approximately
08.00 hours. I can also remember that around 10.00 hours I went
to the C.M.B. bank
. There were long cues at the bank so I left without
having made any transaction and went back to work. I left my workplace
at approximately 15.00 hours. I arrived at the bank at approximately 15.30.
 I had gone to the C.M.B. bank that is situated in Noord."



But that night of 3:45 in question and the 4:00 pickup at the McDonalds is right. He did not go to the Aruba Bank otherwise he could have pictup his son. When he went there, there was the Security sitting outside so he could not went there.

The time and the Bank he Went to is where he has his account and he must have use the drive true ATM so he can keep an eye for his son comming out the woods. but his sone decided to walk to wards the McDonald where his Paul pict him up.

If his son comming out the woods must have seen the Security man of Aruba Bank, So he continue to wak straight toward the Mc Donald.

Paul was at the ATM but not the Aruba Bank becuase he does not have an account there.

Also the birts with big light where over that area that night.

this is according to the WTNS and the security sits in front of the building. The other security man at the CMB

He was on the


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 17, 2008, 12:13:03 AM
if the son continue walking to the CMB bank than two secuirty man would have seen him. but he use the secondary road back street. he walk passing the WTNS home to the McDonnald.





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 17, 2008, 12:14:51 AM
Klaasend:

Did got Email from the man, He know nows and Understand.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on February 17, 2008, 01:45:16 AM
Caps,
It may very well have been the CMB Bank. I know that there was a lot of discussion about this and I had also read the statements about PVDS going to the CMB Bank later in the day, twice if I remember correctly.  I don't have a lot of information that I'd saved early in the case because my hard drive crashed and I couldn't retrieve anything from it.  I saved the timeline that I gave you the info from in the past few months.   I know that all of the information on it is not correct but it did have a lot of verifiable information also.  This timeline is from an "unknown source".  The timelines that only have verifiable information on them do not include any ATM transactions in the early morning hours that I can find.  When this has been discussed in the media/forums it has been said that these type of records are not released for investigation as they would be here in the States.

These are the lines of the timeline that I posted from:

3:00 am...........?Someone makes withdrawl from Paulus’ account @ Aruba Bank ATM across from Mcdonalds?

3:45 am..........?Someone makes 2nd withdrawl from Paulus’ account @ Aruba Bank ATM?

In another scenario that was discussed here, speculation was that he went to the ATM to see if money had been deposited into his account.  This was in a discussion of Natalee possibly being a kidnap for ransom/sale scenario.  There was an argument that this was not a possibility because a transaction made after banking hours would not show up until the next day anyway.  You may know better how this works there.

When Lala's and Mum are here tomorrow maybe they can tell you more, I know they were involved in the discussions I read about.






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on February 17, 2008, 03:30:23 AM

 
The Mystery Driver is a Lawyer according to Shango.
 
Shango say: the Fallen Judge and DirtyHand are of the same Hand. (They are of the same type either a Judge or a Lawyer)
 
So Dirtyhand is the DRIVER and he is either a Judge or a Lawyer that is eihter in the Lions CLub and is a cordinator or consultant that speak with both the Prime Minister and Henny Eman.
 
The Caps.

Was there a Judge or someone living on Paul property?



Caps,
Not sure if this applies to your question.  Are lawyer's or judge's in training referred to as "interns"?  In the translation of Joran's book I remembered that they had rented the apartment out when he was younger.  I found this in the Chapter 2 translation:

- when they got older, no need for live in housekeeper/babysitter so apartment rented out to mostly interns. One guy lived there, ran up a big rent debt and was kicked out. Still needs to pay, PVDS believes one day he will pay out of the "goodness of his heart", JVDS and brother ridicule his dad for that belief. Then it stood empty for some time


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 17, 2008, 04:22:15 AM

 
The Mystery Driver is a Lawyer according to Shango.
 
Shango say: the Fallen Judge and DirtyHand are of the same Hand. (They are of the same type either a Judge or a Lawyer)
 
So Dirtyhand is the DRIVER and he is either a Judge or a Lawyer that is eihter in the Lions CLub and is a cordinator or consultant that speak with both the Prime Minister and Henny Eman.
 
The Caps.

Was there a Judge or someone living on Paul property?



Caps,
Not sure if this applies to your question.  Are lawyer's or judge's in training referred to as "interns"?  In the translation of Joran's book I remembered that they had rented the apartment out when he was younger.  I found this in the Chapter 2 translation:

- when they got older, no need for live in housekeeper/babysitter so apartment rented out to mostly interns. One guy lived there, ran up a big rent debt and was kicked out. Still needs to pay, PVDS believes one day he will pay out of the "goodness of his heart", JVDS and brother ridicule his dad for that belief. Then it stood empty for some time

Yes an Intern is a Judge in Training or A Lawyers. WE have a lot of Dutch Interns that come to Aruba to do training and get experience.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 17, 2008, 04:36:21 AM
Caps,
It may very well have been the CMB Bank. I know that there was a lot of discussion about this and I had also read the statements about PVDS going to the CMB Bank later in the day, twice if I remember correctly.  I don't have a lot of information that I'd saved early in the case because my hard drive crashed and I couldn't retrieve anything from it.  I saved the timeline that I gave you the info from in the past few months.   I know that all of the information on it is not correct but it did have a lot of verifiable information also.  This timeline is from an "unknown source".  The timelines that only have verifiable information on them do not include any ATM transactions in the early morning hours that I can find.  When this has been discussed in the media/forums it has been said that these type of records are not released for investigation as they would be here in the States.

These are the lines of the timeline that I posted from:

3:00 am...........?Someone makes withdrawl from Paulus’ account @ Aruba Bank ATM across from Mcdonalds?

3:45 am..........?Someone makes 2nd withdrawl from Paulus’ account @ Aruba Bank ATM?

In another scenario that was discussed here, speculation was that he went to the ATM to see if money had been deposited into his account.  This was in a discussion of Natalee possibly being a kidnap for ransom/sale scenario.  There was an argument that this was not a possibility because a transaction made after banking hours would not show up until the next day anyway.  You may know better how this works there.

When Lala's and Mum are here tomorrow maybe they can tell you more, I know they were involved in the discussions I read about.






Wel I check and the Aruba Bank has a security guard.

You see of he pictup Joran at 4:00 am track back 15 min and this will put you back at the two banks.

The ATM of CMB is across the street from the Aruba Back.

Both have Security cameras and bot have security guards.

If Paul went to canvas the area, he must have pretend gone to the ATM to stand there pretending to take money while he taks to the gaurds to distract them from the what is going on.

So he pretent to widthdraw money or check on his account. but did not remove any money.
then come back but this time to remove money for someone. A pay off to the dirtydriver.

let me check here who was the security comp that the bank uses at night for that year. In the daytime, they have their own security personel but at night, Who?

Also if the guard was destracted so Joran can clear the aea without being seen.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 17, 2008, 04:47:27 AM
LaLa let do this

Lets separate the DUTCH and  the Arubans and the Americans in groups

in the group of the Dutch, include any name that you think had someting to say about the case

let do it this way and let look at the names.

Then there relationship with the Government if any or a relatioship to the Law world or other.

I have check and the only website that is not working is only one and is a Dutch.


Remember he walk in all places so he is in the plain view,



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 08:57:22 AM
A slightly different take...COLUMBO...probably doesn't apply to Shango, but true I think....

Dutch - in the Netherlands - hand holding Dutch/Aruban or Aruban hand is dirty.

Dirty Hand is the link...the Governor-General...he is the link in the above.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 17, 2008, 09:18:05 AM
A slightly different take...COLUMBO...probably doesn't apply to Shango, but true I think....

Dutch - in the Netherlands - hand holding Dutch/Aruban or Aruban hand is dirty.

Dirty Hand is the link...the Governor-General...he is the link in the above.



a sacrifice will be made to spare the polis, to spare the teepees

The Lamb and the two Shivas whisper in the dark,
while the lions pace silently in the bush.
Dirty Hand is the link! (between lions and babylonians)

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the note$ (follow the money)
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation (polis, gov't, et al)
meet, under cover of delusion.

He (DirtyHand) holds the real key (to the poison house)
He is the link! (between pimps and lions-which "play")

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there(???), or did they flee to Babylon?
DirtyHand knows, this is his Power
there will be 46 sacrifices (the answer is "yes")


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 17, 2008, 09:25:28 AM
Babalu knew who dirty hand was-polis! looking for Natalee........

the gamblers took note......all they "knew" was written down

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:22 pm
Because the fallen judge agreed, he can sing any song he wants
A poisonous siren in the halls of babylon

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
Who knows what song the elder will sing (?)
 
-which song.....
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl
the arawaks new the girl
and the babylonians still know the girl (loot)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 17, 2008, 10:45:41 AM
Lala :

What time didi Paul said that he went to the ATM?



Paulus did not make a statement say he made any ATM withdrawals. At this moment, I am not sure how that story came about, but...it is a documented fact that Paulus was heard or been known to have been in the area of the McDonald's around 4 AM in the morning.  That is one of the reasons given for denial of his compensation by the Aruban courts.  This fits in line with your..."Joran walked across the street to McDonald's theory".


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 17, 2008, 10:51:31 AM
quoting Chata:

"Reading back in my notes I found a reference to this same idea (Caps)... someone with their own business, powerful person on the island.  3 names come to mind as maybe fitting this ... Contreras/Cuntreras family, Monsur family (not necessarily Jossy), and the Posner family."

What other Mansurs with business interests are in Aruba?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 17, 2008, 10:54:46 AM
LaLa let do this

Lets separate the DUTCH and  the Arubans and the Americans in groups

in the group of the Dutch, include any name that you think had someting to say about the case

let do it this way and let look at the names.

Then there relationship with the Government if any or a relatioship to the Law world or other.

I have check and the only website that is not working is only one and is a Dutch.


Remember he walk in all places so he is in the plain view,



I can name people, but honestly I don't know if they are Dutch or Aruban.  I get that mixed up too easily.  Maybe someone will come along and complete this info if I start it.


Players that I know of at this moment or suspect as being involved...

From Joran's end: Some are Aruban and some are Dutch, Colombian, Brazilian, etc.

Satish
Deepak
Freddy
Guido
Steve Croes
Jaime
Andre and Arthur Santos
Lorenzo ( Wever or Van Rijn or maybe some other Lorenzo)


From Paulus end:

Jan van der Straten
Rudy Croes
Nelson Oduber
Dennis Jacobs
Ben King
Karen Janssen
Ronny Bernadina
Comemencia


I know I have left some out and will think of them or perhaps there are others that will add to these.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on February 17, 2008, 01:31:17 PM
LaLa let do this

Lets separate the DUTCH and  the Arubans and the Americans in groups

in the group of the Dutch, include any name that you think had someting to say about the case

let do it this way and let look at the names.

Then there relationship with the Government if any or a relatioship to the Law world or other.

I have check and the only website that is not working is only one and is a Dutch.


Remember he walk in all places so he is in the plain view,



I can name people, but honestly I don't know if they are Dutch or Aruban.  I get that mixed up too easily.  Maybe someone will come along and complete this info if I start it.


Players that I know of at this moment or suspect as being involved...

From Joran's end: Some are Aruban and some are Dutch, Colombian, Brazilian, etc.

Satish
Deepak
Freddy
Guido
Steve Croes
Jaime
Andre and Arthur Santos
Lorenzo ( Wever or Van Rijn or maybe some other Lorenzo)


From Paulus end:

Jan van der Straten
Rudy Croes
Nelson Oduber
Dennis Jacobs
Ben King
Karen Janssen
Ronny Bernadina
Comemencia


I know I have left some out and will think of them or perhaps there are others that will add to these.

Lala's,
Is Ben King (Vocking) a lawyer?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 17, 2008, 01:41:01 PM
Texasmom
Very good question.  I know he was involved with the Matthews case and all that. He has certainly been touted as possible dirty hand.  How much he is involved in all the other aspects I don't know.  My problem with the term lawyer is this...in the USA you have prosecutors and defense attorneys...that goes along with district attorneys and such.  So since he worked with Karen Jansen in some capacity it would place him in that position.  He did seem to be in the think of things with Paulus, since he was there during that search and I have often wondered how that could be if he was part of the group trying to find out what happened.

If you are trying to tie him with dirty hand I can see how it might work...only thing is Shango said that Babalu opened a window by commenting on dirty hand being a member of the polis...so how that translates into lawyer is beyond me at this time.  Maybe someone will bring that info back to us and let us review it again.  I keep forgetting the details. My understanding of lawyers in Aruba is that they aren't exactly operating in the same capacity as what we normally think here in the USA.

BTW, have you ever wondered if Paulus was teaching law classes at the local college why he couldn't pass his exams or whatever to become a judge?  Strange that.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 17, 2008, 01:44:56 PM
This from the Aruban Who's Who thread:

KING, Ben (Vocking)   – one of Paulus’s friends.  Ex-KIA official, now working at Prosecutor;s office.  Was present at the time of search at VDS home.  Paulus allegedly stayed with him during beginning of case.  Paulus allegedly helped him to destroy evidence in the infamous case of  Eduardo Matthews.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 17, 2008, 01:47:22 PM
Caps
As I said I left out some people in my list...such as the Gottenbos...here is the link to a thread that has lots of info on the players and participants in this whole case.  Idon't know when the last update of the info was, but I know who to ask to find out.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=203.0


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 17, 2008, 02:13:58 PM
Having a senior moment here...sorry.  Who replaced van der Straten as Polis Chief? Anyone? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on February 17, 2008, 03:07:05 PM
Having a senior moment here...sorry.  Who replaced van der Straten as Polis Chief? Anyone? TIA

Lalas,
I know this is more info than you asked for but hopefully what you're looking for is here.  It's all so hard to keep straight to me that I thought I would go ahead and post it all just in case.

STRAATEN, Jan van der  -  Former Chief of Polis, head of investigation into the disappearence of Natalee Holloway.

TROMP, Lieutenant Roy  - Dutch Aruban police Investigator; he was the initial Aruba police Lead Investigator on the disappearance case.

SOEMERS, Eric  -  took over as the Aruba Police Commissioner when van der Stratten went on a pre-retirement “vacation.”

BERNADINA, Ronny  - High Commissioner of Police, recently resigned from office.

WITTE, Peter de  - new Chief of Police in Aruba.   Peter de Witte, acting director of the Coastguard of the Neth.Antilles and Aruba will become the new chief of police. Effective January 1st, 2007 he will formally succeed chief of police Ronny Bernadina, but he will start working on November 1st. After the three years, he will be replaced by a new local chief of police. He will be assisted by three local experts, including a district attorney, an expert in the field of personnel, and a person from the police corps.

DOMPIG, Gerold  - Deputy Police Commissioner.  Head of investigation after Jan van der Straaten.


RICHARDSON, Dolph  – current lead investigator after Dompig removed from case.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on February 17, 2008, 03:38:46 PM
Texasmom
Very good question.  I know he was involved with the Matthews case and all that. He has certainly been touted as possible dirty hand.  How much he is involved in all the other aspects I don't know.  My problem with the term lawyer is this...in the USA you have prosecutors and defense attorneys...that goes along with district attorneys and such.  So since he worked with Karen Jansen in some capacity it would place him in that position.  He did seem to be in the think of things with Paulus, since he was there during that search and I have often wondered how that could be if he was part of the group trying to find out what happened.

If you are trying to tie him with dirty hand I can see how it might work...only thing is Shango said that Babalu opened a window by commenting on dirty hand being a member of the polis...so how that translates into lawyer is beyond me at this time.  Maybe someone will bring that info back to us and let us review it again.  I keep forgetting the details. My understanding of lawyers in Aruba is that they aren't exactly operating in the same capacity as what we normally think here in the USA.

BTW, have you ever wondered if Paulus was teaching law classes at the local college why he couldn't pass his exams or whatever to become a judge?  Strange that.

This has always been a sticking point with me.  If PVDS simply did not "pass the test" to become a judge, wouldn't he be allowed to RETAKE the test as is done is the case of lawyers?  Is "the test" a written test only?  I have read many times that he did not receive the "required recommendations of other judges" though I cannot site anything official on that, just remarks in forums etc.  In Dave Holloway's book I found the following quite interesting:

Pg 21-23 (snipped in some areas)
When the prime minister arrived back in Aruba from Fort Lauderdale approximately ten days after Natalee disappeared, his island was inundated with international press members, and he decided that he needed to take action.  He must have felt that a meeting with the families would send a clear message that the government was concerned about Natalee.  He had previously met with Beth and her family, and it was time to meet with my side...His opening remarks were those of a concerned man.  He told us that he had a son who was in college, and he expressed his sympathy about Natalee.  But then he proceeded to tell us how many hotels he had built and how many other ongoing projects he had.  In fact, he said he had a $90 million project currently in the works............I interjected, "Could I have the floor, and can I ask you three simple questions?"........I began my inquiry: 
Dave: "What is the legal age of gambling?"
Oduber: "18"
Dave: "What is the legal age of alcohol consumption?"
Oduber: "18"
Dave: "What is the legal age of driving?"
Oduber: "18"
He asked why I wanted to know.  I said, "In my country, a judge interprets the law and renders justice based on the crime.  He also has the responsibility to project an image to the public that would represent trust, honesty, and integrity.  Paulus Van der Sloot's son is only seventeen.  How can a man training to be a judge sit at a poker table with his son and allow him to gamble, go to Carlos'n Charlie's and order drinks, and even drive?  What kind of image does this project upon the average person in Aruba?  Ordinary people are fined and sent to prison, but does it apply to Paulus van der Sloot and his son?  Are they above the law?"
   The prime minister responded, "Nobody here is above the law, and van der Sloot will not be a judge."  Apparently, Paulus had failed the test required to become a judge on the island.  The prime minister added that he had been trying to close Carlos'n Charlie's for some time, I told him I would quote him and hold him to his word that "No one is above the law."


I would really like to know what the specifics are because I agree that it seems if he "taught" the classes, he should know the material required to pass the test.  I just have to wonder if that is all there is to it.
 ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 17, 2008, 03:55:08 PM
If I am correct, I think Paulus had already learned he did not pass his judge tests or what ever you call them.  He had spent a lot of time on Curacao, I think, studying for them.  Didn't we learn that Paulus was never home and Anita shouldered much of the discipline for three boys?  How could Paulus not pass them?  What did he do all the time he was supposed to be studying and learning?  It seems to me that he had to be appointed and maybe he didn't make the friends he needed to make.  Perhaps, he knew the law well enough to "move around in the palace" but couldn't get past the fact that he had made enemies earlier in his life that had come back to haunt him.  The latter seems far fetched to me given the fact that all the judges have seemingly covered for him at every opportunity.  I am still perplexed over it also.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Chata on February 17, 2008, 04:29:40 PM
Shango may have been messing with the bloggers, but 3 years after the fact more and more of what he had to say seems to fit with what is now known … IMO.

Shango said:
Of whom is the young Babylonian afraid?  (Someone holds power over him … ???)
Why won’t he talk?  (Except to spout his “invented stories” … who is writing Joran’s script???)

Then:
The dice throwers know
The maze of the rave
And the fly that entered the trap (a set-up or something pre-planned … maybe just for Natalee or something done on a regular basis???  I think the latter … Joran says at least 20 times before and the casino folk know about it)

Shango speaking of DirtyHand:
He walks in many circles (has his ear to the ground and knows what is happening on the entire island and who is involved with what and is accepted into all social strata … has to be someone that can go everywhere without raising eyebrows)
………
but DirtyHand is afraid to rave (if he involved himself here he would be vulnerable to those running this operation … so he may make an appearance on occasion, but does not “party”/”play”)
 

Then:
Follow the music (locate where the rave is on any given night … after hours private party.  I would think that they either have a DJ, with his portable sound equipment or a live band of some sort , so if one knew to listen, the rave would be easily located.  Hotel suites could be involved, that would make sense with Casinos located in the Hotels)
 
I have already indicated that the Allegro and Wyndham may have had a connection:
Riversol  and Smith were mentioned:
Who were they chummy with???
Who did they have on board financially???
Do they have a connection to Curacao???

………..

Ask the men who play dice and “roll” (this is a regular thing on Aruba and there are regular players/partiers, elite and their guests)
Follow the music
The DiceMen must be questioned (DiceMen are not same as men who play dice … they are the Casino employees/bosses)
They go to the Music and enter the same Maze (The casino employees pick up a little extra money by working the after hours private parties, maybe, or they go as participants???)

Then:
The threadsurfers are opening the door to babylon (the dirty underbelly of Aruba, I believe)
Be careful of the lions (players/partiers, elite … probably not all from Aruba)
DirtyHand does not have them tamed (they live above the law, doing what they please)
But he can enter the den ( the lions allow DirtyHand to enter the maze/rave … I don’t know who DirtyHand is but I agree he most likely is Jan VDS)

Caps:
I really appreciate all the work you have done and how you have tried to make us understand how Arubans think, but mostly I have been lost.  I guess I just can’t understand the Aruban thought process any better than I understand the Justice system.  Thanks for all your input.

Colombo:
I remember the clips from Greta’s OTR, I did watch them then.  I was really interested in Beth and how serious she was as she looked around.  Made me wonder if she was looking for an actual something.  Big suite … was it on the 7th level??? Or owned by a 7th level Mason???
About the “notes” in Shango.  Is it referring to money???  Or actual notes … handbill, as in something printed on paper and handed out to certain people.  You know, like the stuff that gets stuck under your wiper blades at the shopping centers.  Advertising!  I seem to remember Dave or Jug or someone say something like that very early on, first few weeks.
Gamblers took note=noticed/saw/see it all or do they let others know when a fly is ready for the trap???

LaLa,
Thank you for posting the Simian/Shango along with all the comments from bloggers. 
I have to agree with you about the coverup and its purpose.

I was going to post this last night … early AM, talked myself out of it, but after reading something I saved from the front page that was posted 12-01-06 decided to post it.  I am going to post a few quotes from that front page too.








Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Chata on February 17, 2008, 04:36:13 PM
Caps post aboput the DaVinci Code made me remember seeing this posted ... and I think it was here (maybe another blog) that a heated discussion developed.  Anyway, for what it is worth, they were discussing the Mason and levels and rites, etc.
 
This is about the 7th level , Royal Arch Degree

"Masons
I furthermore promise and swear, that I will assist a Companion Royal Arch Mason when I see him engaged in any difficulty, and will espouse his cause so far as to extricate him from the same, whether he be right or wrong.
Comment by Allan K | December 1, 2006, 8:37 pm "


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Chata on February 17, 2008, 04:42:36 PM
Was the Judge a freemason too with all those secret rooms at the lodge. Natalee was hidden in plain sight in a secret room at
 the lodge? King Solomons keys-not gold paths that freemasons speak of. Masonic cult activities. Bifrons, he changeth dead bodies from place to place, ties into that freemason cult.
Comment by Allan K | December 1, 2006, 5:32 pm
Freemasons can not sprak out.
7 th level at the mason lodbe
Comment by Allan K | December 1, 2006, 5:33 pm
Natalee’s Key;
Is across the sea;

Natalee’s Key;
Is across the sea;
In the dirty hands of Arch-Royalty.
Follow decendants of Templars who;
Will convince you at last;
That Shango was true.
Comment by parascope | December 1, 2006, 5:45 pm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 17, 2008, 04:43:44 PM
Does anyone have a picture of Ben Vocking?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Chata on February 17, 2008, 04:47:43 PM
Shango said the key to the Hague did not exist
HEADQARTERS MASON
that door to eden remains closed
until the house with the path
But not of gold Mason
is entered
7 th level right here in Aruba
Comment by Allan K | December 1, 2006, 6:15 pm


Messengers fed at the banquet hall;
them;
One and all.
Mention of Bacchus and his poison wine;
Is a Masonic oath;
That secrecy binds.
Comment by parascope | December 1, 2006, 6:16 pm


Mary ROLLED through the Maze MASON LODGES
There is more than one house of music
the Lamb is a Scapegoat
Comment by Allan K | December 1, 2006, 6:22 pm
All know of the music
beckoning lost souls
to enter the seven levels of inferno MASONS
who gave Mary the poison wine of Bacchus?
MASONS
Comment by Allan K | December 1, 2006, 6:26 pm



SHANGO:
All know of the music
beckoning lost souls
to enter the seven levels of inferno
who gave Mary the poison wine of Bacchus?
Enter the Maze.
SONG (From Cole’s “Antient Constitutions”, 1731)
I
As I at Wheeler’s Lodge one Night
Kept Bacchus company;
For Bacchus is a Mason bright,
And of all Lodges free- free- free..
II
Said I, great Bacchus is adry,
Pray give the God some Wine;
Jove in a Fury did reply,
October’s as divine- divine- divine.
III
It makes us Masons more compleat,
Adds to our Fancy Wings,
Makes us as happy and as great
As mighty Lords and Kings- Kings- Kings.
FOLLOW THE MUSIC
Comment by parascope | December 1, 2006, 6:28 pm






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Chata on February 17, 2008, 04:51:26 PM
There is more if anyone would like it posted.  It is from the front page of SM, Dec. 2006.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Chata on February 17, 2008, 04:55:00 PM

Shango said:

"The lamb shall run anew in virgin fields, cropping sweet grass which should remain untouched"

I read a little earlier that Joran was fearful for his life ??? and was on a ski vacation in Germany??? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 17, 2008, 05:02:40 PM
Where exactly does this "witness" see Paulus at an ATM at 4am?

http://www.cmbnv.com/locations.php


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 17, 2008, 05:21:20 PM
Wyndham Hotel="The White House"?

Presidential Suites
Casabanca Casino
Small apts. for managers

Story: Inside the enclosed empty parking area is 3 small apts.  Out of the middle, came a man with a suitcase on wheels.  He looked around and paced back & forth very nervously for quite awhile...Finally, leaving with his suitcase...walking very quickly outside and into the main entrance to the business offices. Then on to the "Follies Show" where he placed himself in photos with the dancers and tourists...Riversol?

This man....Riversol!
(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/riversol.jpg)

Maze-Numerous hotels with private "7th floors"
Wyndham-2005-Casablanca Casino/Royale Caberet Owners from Belize
(friends of Posner?)
Allegro-2005 Owners from Spain (friends of Paulus?)

Riversol-The "middle man" between the two? Possibly "DirtyHand"?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 05:40:15 PM
Does anyone have a picture of Ben Vocking?


I just saw one and I don't remember where....will have a quick look in the Aruban Who's Who thread or ask *******.

Still on page 100 here.....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 17, 2008, 05:40:22 PM

Shango said:

"The lamb shall run anew in virgin fields, cropping sweet grass which should remain untouched"

I read a little earlier that Joran was fearful for his life ??? and was on a ski vacation in Germany??? 


skiing can be extremely dangerous..........    ::MonkeyLaugh::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 17, 2008, 05:51:16 PM
Does anyone have a picture of Ben Vocking?


I just saw one and I don't remember where....will have a quick look in the Aruban Who's Who thread or ask *******.

Still on page 100 here.....

Thanx i found this in a peter r de vries documentary of 2006 about Natalee Holloway. At 8 minutes into the video they talk about Ben (Voc)king there is his picture and a group portrait with him and other guys in tuxedo's. Lionsclub maybe?

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/peter-r-de-vries-reportage-sbs6--2006-deel-5/998645198


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 05:53:06 PM
There is more if anyone would like it posted.  It is from the front page of SM, Dec. 2006.


I appreciate you posting them Chata. I know some posters have got their knickers in a knot, so to speak, when it was discussed on the LCD.

I look at it this way...the Marines are always looking for a few good men...occasionally they get a bad one.

Back to page 100...where's JuJu?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 17, 2008, 05:57:29 PM
Here is a photo listed as Ben Vocking on that Judicial Inc website.  I'm not sure if it's verified:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/BenVocking.jpg)

Geeze - just went and checked the Judicial site and it looks like he's change the photo to this:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Josran_31.jpg)

http://judicial-inc.biz/Joran_va_der_sloot.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 06:02:06 PM
Here is a photo listed as Ben Vocking on that Judicial Inc website.  I'm not sure if it's verified:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/BenVocking.jpg)


Thanks Klaas...JE found a video and should be able to confirm if it is.

100


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 17, 2008, 06:02:55 PM
Here is a photo listed as Ben Vocking on that Judicial Inc website.  I'm not sure if it's verified:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/BenVocking.jpg)

Hey Klaas that looks like the guy on this site it says he's a pastor in ther order of the dominicans

http://www.dominicanen.nl/detail_page.phtml?act_id=28&username=guest&password=9999&publish=Y&username=guest&password=9999&groups=DOMINICA&banner=2&categories=broeders

he s on here too funny coincidence
surinam parish
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:hRkYJGxsu3oJ:www.surinaamseparochie.nl/archief/nieuws2005/Nieuwsbrief%2520mei%25202005.pdf+ben+vocking+site:.nl&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2

He looks older than the guy in the de vries tape i mentioned


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on February 17, 2008, 06:05:27 PM
Ok so it is the same guy..

(http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/7549/benvockingkleinzp0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Ben Vocking o.p., provinciaal   
Hang 17
3011 GG ROTTERDAM
http://tinyurl.com/3ddfxf


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Chata on February 17, 2008, 06:07:11 PM
"Riversol-The "middle man" between the two? Possibly "DirtyHand"?"


Possible, but DH is probably part of LE. MO.

Riversol is mor likely to be connected/involved with casinos circuit and what goes on there ... public and private.  Just MO.  Does he have a son???


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 06:07:25 PM
ORANJESTAD, Aruba - Aruban authorities have arrested a new suspect in the case of missing Alabama teen Natalee Holloway, the prosecutor’s office announced Friday.

The person “suspected of being involved” in Holloway’s disappearance was identified only as a 26-year-old with the initials S.G.C. The office did not disclose the gender.

The arrest was made at 6:25 a.m. local time, the office stated.

Qouted from the MSN webpage located here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8218429/
Posted by: Hman | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 12:47 PM

So as I understand it -

1)fourth guy was taken into custody last night and was being questioned.

2)fifth guy arrested this morning (different from guy above).

I have heard two names "lorenzo" and "person with initials SGC"...

Is this correct and can anyone tell which one is which?

Posted by: Florida Girl | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 01:04 PM






Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.   Croes
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian…. Per above Lorenzo
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?   two cards-Croes and Lorenzo

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon    Lorenzo
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.    J2K
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

I do not know who is holding Lorenzo's hand  



My answers in red....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 06:20:36 PM
"Riversol-The "middle man" between the two? Possibly "DirtyHand"?"


Possible, but DH is probably part of LE. MO.

Riversol is mor likely to be connected/involved with casinos circuit and what goes on there ... public and private.  Just MO.  Does he have a son???


Hi Chata...I asked if he is Jewish, does anyone know?

I was thinking the Star of David...


100


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 17, 2008, 06:23:58 PM
so PVDS is 5th as arawaks kept babylonian card hidden.......

DirtyHand is more vulnerable than the Arawak King:
http://scaredmonkeys.com/index.php?s=van+rijn+arrested

forbidden desires in small houses?
"Last Wednesday, the team of special projects of the police corps arrested the five men, L.R, J.V., R.V, D.W., and M.W. and confiscated 898 hemp plants, two live cartridges, five firearms, cars and money, during house searches in several homes."

Arawaks often go to play in the small houses of babylon with offspring of the elders:
Jossy:
"We think that the police moved in on him and others partially because they are mad for what happened to one of their cars that was taken by an anti-social and then burned somewhere near Santa Cruz. The culprit has since been arrested."

He holds the real key.......
He is the link!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 06:24:50 PM
vms or Nut ... did aristotle elaborate any more on his posts? I know he said he didn't wnat to be a bore, but some of us would find them quite interesting...I'm sure.   TIA

Aristotle wrote:

here is the most telling part:

casanostra Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:35 am
I picked the casanostra as a name after doing much research as to their relationship to the island of Aruba and the drug trade, as well as other things that go along with it. Do some googling and find out for yourself. I think that Natalie is alive and that there are people on the island, and those that pass through the island that no one wants to mess with. There lies the predicament. You have a criminal element more powerful than the authorities and a chess game is being played. I think Joran is being protected, but he is also guilty of something. Not murder, but leading Natalie into something very sinister. I apologize if my speculation is in any way disrespectful to she or her family, but I find this very intriguing and it goes much deeper than what is implied on television.

Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:36 am
Casanostra is standing at a window looking onto Babylon…



whereas others were merely opening windows to the truth with their guesses about vanderstraten, etc., casanostra was STANDING there staring the truth right in the face.
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mum,

Thank you for responding yesterday on the other thread. Just decided it was best to leave well enough alone...



Thanks vms...I found this on the front page. I need to google for more info.

1.   Checkme on June 29th, 2005 10:16 pm
Moose, in short, NH, located on beach, is expected by party of people, prepared for her, take her to Colombia, (maybe Venezuela). The connection between AUA and Colombia is obviously what is the “missing link” here. I believe they know about this link but expsing it will ping them and all hope for NH being alive will be lost.





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 06:31:06 PM
Michoo on June 30th, 2005 1:05 am

it is part of a religion found in Yorubaland, Nigeria. some of yoruba tradition/rituals are found in the carib and in South America (brazil)b/c many yorubians/yorubans were taken as slaves and transported to the carib and S.A. but i think this shango/simian person is one in the same. it is a college kid messing around with our minds. the shango story is very well known with people who study west africa.



Dos Santos - Brazil?...Will check...



The Arubans think NH is on the way to Panama with the help of? Who is the Carib?

Venezuelan…got something to check on.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 06:33:55 PM
Lala’s…How did Kristy get the impression Shango was a student? TIA
 
# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 1:55 am

Shango,

What do you study?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 17, 2008, 06:41:32 PM
ORANJESTAD, Aruba - Aruban authorities have arrested a new suspect in the case of missing Alabama teen Natalee Holloway, the prosecutor’s office announced Friday.

The person “suspected of being involved” in Holloway’s disappearance was identified only as a 26-year-old with the initials S.G.C. The office did not disclose the gender.

The arrest was made at 6:25 a.m. local time, the office stated.

Qouted from the MSN webpage located here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8218429/
Posted by: Hman | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 12:47 PM

So as I understand it -

1)fourth guy was taken into custody last night and was being questioned.

2)fifth guy arrested this morning (different from guy above).

I have heard two names "lorenzo" and "person with initials SGC"...

Is this correct and can anyone tell which one is which?

Posted by: Florida Girl | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 01:04 PM






Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.   Croes
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian…. Per above Lorenzo
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?   two cards-Croes and Lorenzo

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon    Lorenzo
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.    J2K
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

I do not know who is holding Lorenzo's hand  



My answers in red....


Croes provided a useless alibi...what did the other card provide?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 17, 2008, 06:43:05 PM
Lala’s…How did Kristy get the impression Shango was a student? TIA
 
# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 1:55 am

Shango,

What do you study?



another posters named Michoo claimed that Shango was a bored college student sitting around playing with everyone...actually that may not be as far from the truth as some would think?  Are you interested?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 17, 2008, 06:49:09 PM
According to the de vries tapes guy on the right is vocking



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 17, 2008, 06:49:54 PM
Does anyone have a picture of Ben Vocking?


I just saw one and I don't remember where....will have a quick look in the Aruban Who's Who thread or ask *******.

Still on page 100 here.....

Thanx i found this in a peter r de vries documentary of 2006 about Natalee Holloway. At 8 minutes into the video they talk about Ben (Voc)king there is his picture and a group portrait with him and other guys in tuxedo's. Lionsclub maybe?

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/peter-r-de-vries-reportage-sbs6--2006-deel-5/998645198



JE, these two pics? I can't understand it so I'm not sure...

(http://i30.tinypic.com/jkwu1c.jpg)

(http://i32.tinypic.com/2yvmm1u.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 17, 2008, 06:54:45 PM
What is said about Ben Vocking?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 17, 2008, 06:56:17 PM
Does anyone have a picture of Ben Vocking?


I just saw one and I don't remember where....will have a quick look in the Aruban Who's Who thread or ask *******.

Still on page 100 here.....

Thanx i found this in a peter r de vries documentary of 2006 about Natalee Holloway. At 8 minutes into the video they talk about Ben (Voc)king there is his picture and a group portrait with him and other guys in tuxedo's. Lionsclub maybe?

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/peter-r-de-vries-reportage-sbs6--2006-deel-5/998645198



JE, these two pics? I can't understand it so I'm not sure...

(http://i30.tinypic.com/jkwu1c.jpg)

(http://i32.tinypic.com/2yvmm1u.jpg)

Yep that's him and then they zoom out to show him in a group photo i was curious if anyone recognizes any of the other people in the picture


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 06:56:48 PM
Lala’s…How did Kristy get the impression Shango was a student? TIA
 
# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 1:55 am

Shango,

What do you study?



another posters named Michoo claimed that Shango was a bored college student sitting around playing with everyone...actually that may not be as far from the truth as some would think?  Are you interested?


Above post

Drugs…rave house…secluded

I know you have more you’re dying to post…LOL

102


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 17, 2008, 06:56:50 PM
Lala's:

other card is dirty.....DirtyHand


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 17, 2008, 06:59:47 PM
What is said about Ben Vocking?

They say that when the police went to sloots property vocking opened the door. He had taken a holliday to assist sloot during these difficult times and that bob wit altered the search warrant on the spot to restrict the search to jorans appartement.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 17, 2008, 07:00:28 PM
whoa......

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians do not like the Babylonian intrusion.
The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….

re:"judicial feat"
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20020312/edit.htm#2




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 17, 2008, 07:02:46 PM
re: link above:

Who provided escort afte te Shivas left?

Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid Arawak King who wishes to blame the babylonians for the behaviour of lowly minions.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 07:08:14 PM
vms or Nut ... did aristotle elaborate any more on his posts? I know he said he didn't wnat to be a bore, but some of us would find them quite interesting...I'm sure.   TIA

Aristotle wrote:

here is the most telling part:

casanostra Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:35 am
I picked the casanostra as a name after doing much research as to their relationship to the island of Aruba and the drug trade, as well as other things that go along with it. Do some googling and find out for yourself. I think that Natalie is alive and that there are people on the island, and those that pass through the island that no one wants to mess with. There lies the predicament. You have a criminal element more powerful than the authorities and a chess game is being played. I think Joran is being protected, but he is also guilty of something. Not murder, but leading Natalie into something very sinister. I apologize if my speculation is in any way disrespectful to she or her family, but I find this very intriguing and it goes much deeper than what is implied on television.

Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:36 am
Casanostra is standing at a window looking onto Babylon…



whereas others were merely opening windows to the truth with their guesses about vanderstraten, etc., casanostra was STANDING there staring the truth right in the face.
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mum,

Thank you for responding yesterday on the other thread. Just decided it was best to leave well enough alone...



Thanks vms...I found this on the front page. I need to google for more info.

1.   Checkme on June 29th, 2005 10:16 pm
Moose, in short, NH, located on beach, is expected by party of people, prepared for her, take her to Colombia, (maybe Venezuela). The connection between AUA and Colombia is obviously what is the “missing link” here. I believe they know about this link but expsing it will ping them and all hope for NH being alive will be lost.





Can anyone tell me what AUA is please? Not sure if i got the right thing on google.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 17, 2008, 07:10:23 PM
Lala's:

other card is dirty.....DirtyHand

The other card is van der Straten? I tend to think the cards are witnesses and suspects that if they tell what they know they can solve the case.  But then you and I never seem to agree on anything Shango. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 17, 2008, 07:11:02 PM
Lala’s…How did Kristy get the impression Shango was a student? TIA
 
# Kristy on June 30th, 2005 1:55 am

Shango,

What do you study?



another posters named Michoo claimed that Shango was a bored college student sitting around playing with everyone...actually that may not be as far from the truth as some would think?  Are you interested?


Above post

Drugs…rave house…secluded

I know you have more you’re dying to post…LOL

102



Am not! LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 17, 2008, 07:12:18 PM
vms or Nut ... did aristotle elaborate any more on his posts? I know he said he didn't wnat to be a bore, but some of us would find them quite interesting...I'm sure.   TIA

Aristotle wrote:

here is the most telling part:

casanostra Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:35 am
I picked the casanostra as a name after doing much research as to their relationship to the island of Aruba and the drug trade, as well as other things that go along with it. Do some googling and find out for yourself. I think that Natalie is alive and that there are people on the island, and those that pass through the island that no one wants to mess with. There lies the predicament. You have a criminal element more powerful than the authorities and a chess game is being played. I think Joran is being protected, but he is also guilty of something. Not murder, but leading Natalie into something very sinister. I apologize if my speculation is in any way disrespectful to she or her family, but I find this very intriguing and it goes much deeper than what is implied on television.

Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:36 am
Casanostra is standing at a window looking onto Babylon…



whereas others were merely opening windows to the truth with their guesses about vanderstraten, etc., casanostra was STANDING there staring the truth right in the face.
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mum,

Thank you for responding yesterday on the other thread. Just decided it was best to leave well enough alone...



Thanks vms...I found this on the front page. I need to google for more info.

1.   Checkme on June 29th, 2005 10:16 pm
Moose, in short, NH, located on beach, is expected by party of people, prepared for her, take her to Colombia, (maybe Venezuela). The connection between AUA and Colombia is obviously what is the “missing link” here. I believe they know about this link but expsing it will ping them and all hope for NH being alive will be lost.





Can anyone tell me what AUA is please? Not sure if i got the right thing on google.

Aruba.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 07:14:48 PM
Those pics don't look like the same guy as Klaas and ******* posted to me?

Funny a few pages back COLUMBO...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 17, 2008, 07:15:51 PM
vms or Nut ... did aristotle elaborate any more on his posts? I know he said he didn't wnat to be a bore, but some of us would find them quite interesting...I'm sure.   TIA

Aristotle wrote:

here is the most telling part:

casanostra Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:35 am
I picked the casanostra as a name after doing much research as to their relationship to the island of Aruba and the drug trade, as well as other things that go along with it. Do some googling and find out for yourself. I think that Natalie is alive and that there are people on the island, and those that pass through the island that no one wants to mess with. There lies the predicament. You have a criminal element more powerful than the authorities and a chess game is being played. I think Joran is being protected, but he is also guilty of something. Not murder, but leading Natalie into something very sinister. I apologize if my speculation is in any way disrespectful to she or her family, but I find this very intriguing and it goes much deeper than what is implied on television.

Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:36 am
Casanostra is standing at a window looking onto Babylon…



whereas others were merely opening windows to the truth with their guesses about vanderstraten, etc., casanostra was STANDING there staring the truth right in the face.
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mum,

Thank you for responding yesterday on the other thread. Just decided it was best to leave well enough alone...



Thanks vms...I found this on the front page. I need to google for more info.

1.   Checkme on June 29th, 2005 10:16 pm
Moose, in short, NH, located on beach, is expected by party of people, prepared for her, take her to Colombia, (maybe Venezuela). The connection between AUA and Colombia is obviously what is the “missing link” here. I believe they know about this link but expsing it will ping them and all hope for NH being alive will be lost.





Can anyone tell me what AUA is please? Not sure if i got the right thing on google.

Aruba.
IMO, that is an interesting catch, Mum. Who would refer to Aruba as AUA other than an airline/airport related employee?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 17, 2008, 07:17:11 PM
Those pics don't look like the same guy as Klaas and ******* posted to me?

Funny a few pages back COLUMBO...
Same here. I think JE just found us pics of the real guy.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on February 17, 2008, 07:17:20 PM
Does anyone have a picture of Ben Vocking?


I just saw one and I don't remember where....will have a quick look in the Aruban Who's Who thread or ask *******.

Still on page 100 here.....

Thanx i found this in a peter r de vries documentary of 2006 about Natalee Holloway. At 8 minutes into the video they talk about Ben (Voc)king there is his picture and a group portrait with him and other guys in tuxedo's. Lionsclub maybe?

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/peter-r-de-vries-reportage-sbs6--2006-deel-5/998645198



JE, these two pics? I can't understand it so I'm not sure...

(http://i30.tinypic.com/jkwu1c.jpg)
That guy there you will see in many videos. Most notably when Joran was on video when he went to give his DNA sample. I always thought it was Ben King,but he doesnt look like the other pictures that we have.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 07:20:05 PM
Lala's:

other card is dirty.....DirtyHand

The other card is van der Straten? I tend to think the cards are witnesses and suspects that if they tell what they know they can solve the case.  But then you and I never seem to agree on anything Shango. LOL

Simian says the boy was seen.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 17, 2008, 07:23:57 PM
Does anyone have a picture of Ben Vocking?


I just saw one and I don't remember where....will have a quick look in the Aruban Who's Who thread or ask *******.

Still on page 100 here.....

Thanx i found this in a peter r de vries documentary of 2006 about Natalee Holloway. At 8 minutes into the video they talk about Ben (Voc)king there is his picture and a group portrait with him and other guys in tuxedo's. Lionsclub maybe?

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/peter-r-de-vries-reportage-sbs6--2006-deel-5/998645198



JE, these two pics? I can't understand it so I'm not sure...

(http://i30.tinypic.com/jkwu1c.jpg)
That guy there you will see in many videos. Most notably when Joran was on video when he went to give his DNA sample. I always thought it was Ben King,but he doesnt look like the other pictures that we have.

The one above must be him, *******. Find us some more pics of him.  :lol:
Let's see just how visible he really was...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 07:24:15 PM
vms or Nut ... did aristotle elaborate any more on his posts? I know he said he didn't wnat to be a bore, but some of us would find them quite interesting...I'm sure.   TIA

Aristotle wrote:

here is the most telling part:

casanostra Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:35 am
I picked the casanostra as a name after doing much research as to their relationship to the island of Aruba and the drug trade, as well as other things that go along with it. Do some googling and find out for yourself. I think that Natalie is alive and that there are people on the island, and those that pass through the island that no one wants to mess with. There lies the predicament. You have a criminal element more powerful than the authorities and a chess game is being played. I think Joran is being protected, but he is also guilty of something. Not murder, but leading Natalie into something very sinister. I apologize if my speculation is in any way disrespectful to she or her family, but I find this very intriguing and it goes much deeper than what is implied on television.

Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:36 am
Casanostra is standing at a window looking onto Babylon…



whereas others were merely opening windows to the truth with their guesses about vanderstraten, etc., casanostra was STANDING there staring the truth right in the face.
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mum,

Thank you for responding yesterday on the other thread. Just decided it was best to leave well enough alone...



Thanks vms...I found this on the front page. I need to google for more info.

1.   Checkme on June 29th, 2005 10:16 pm
Moose, in short, NH, located on beach, is expected by party of people, prepared for her, take her to Colombia, (maybe Venezuela). The connection between AUA and Colombia is obviously what is the “missing link” here. I believe they know about this link but expsing it will ping them and all hope for NH being alive will be lost.





Can anyone tell me what AUA is please? Not sure if i got the right thing on google.

Aruba.


Thanks Lala's ... I didn't want to take another wrong turn....I'm lost already!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 07:29:54 PM
vms ...I think it is jackb that keep saying the peeps in Aruba are morphed into each other...Hard to find someone if you don't know what they look like and their name gets confused with someone elses!

UAU...I don't think that's the airport code, is it?  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 17, 2008, 07:31:15 PM
about dirtyhand probably a long shot but i ll have a go
in these posts simian shango like to juggle letters for example slanderfoot=fandersloot
van der straten: straten in english means streets
pronounce vanDIRstrEETs with a little imagination this makes DIRTEE
just a thought


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 17, 2008, 07:32:21 PM
Oh and the hand would logically be on the end of the long arm of the law


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 17, 2008, 07:33:45 PM
vms ...I think it is jackb that keep saying the peeps in Aruba are morphed into each other...Hard to find someone if you don't know what they look like and their name gets confused with someone elses!

UAU...I don't think that's the airport code, is it?  TIA

AUA = Airport code for Aruba.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 07:34:14 PM
*******...did you look at the video?...I know you are good at recognizing people, maybe someone else will jump out of you!

Remember..It took us until last November to get a pic of Judge Smid!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 17, 2008, 07:36:12 PM
"Riversol-The "middle man" between the two? Possibly "DirtyHand"?"

Possible, but DH is probably part of LE. MO.

Riversol is mor likely to be connected/involved with casinos circuit and what goes on there ... public and private.  Just MO.  Does he have a son???


Hi Chata...I asked if he is Jewish, does anyone know?

I was thinking the Star of David...

I don't believe in "coincidences"

CHATA:  You quoted AllanK's posts.  IMO if it had not been for him coming across those photos of Amy Bradley, the possibility of this being Natalee's unfortunate fate would not have been researched.

MomInOhio: The person that saw Riverol in Aruba said the first "instict" was the word "Jewish" ???

And the Caracas connection would be Riverol & others.
(remember Paul Baxter?)

Wasn't it Florida that thought Shango was a friend of the Chicago mafia?
He was outting Posner's new "Aruba Mafia"




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 17, 2008, 07:37:06 PM
Lala's:

other card is dirty.....DirtyHand

The other card is van der Straten? I tend to think the cards are witnesses and suspects that if they tell what they know they can solve the case.  But then you and I never seem to agree on anything Shango. LOL


PVDS played two cards......one's song was not on the bill (though 'the boy was seen')

the other card is DirtyHand (who else plays in the orchestra?)

Arawaks can't let the babylonian card sing because hand holding it dirty too! (polis)


ORANJESTAD, Aruba - Aruban authorities have arrested a new suspect in the case of missing Alabama teen Natalee Holloway, the prosecutor’s office announced Friday.

The person “suspected of being involved” in Holloway’s disappearance was identified only as a 26-year-old with the initials S.G.C. The office did not disclose the gender.

The arrest was made at 6:25 a.m. local time, the office stated.

Qouted from the MSN webpage located here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8218429/
Posted by: Hman | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 12:47 PM

So as I understand it -

1)fourth guy was taken into custody last night and was being questioned.

2)fifth guy arrested this morning (different from guy above).

I have heard two names "lorenzo" and "person with initials SGC"...

Is this correct and can anyone tell which one is which?

Posted by: Florida Girl | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 01:04 PM


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 17, 2008, 07:37:22 PM
Lala's:

other card is dirty.....DirtyHand

The other card is van der Straten? I tend to think the cards are witnesses and suspects that if they tell what they know they can solve the case.  But then you and I never seem to agree on anything Shango. LOL

Simian says the boy was seen.

What boy?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 07:39:38 PM
about dirtyhand probably a long shot but i ll have a go
in these posts simian shango like to juggle letters for example slanderfoot=fandersloot
van der straten: straten in english means streets
pronounce vanDIRstrEETs with a little imagination this makes DIRTEE
just a thought



I see Caps and COLUMBO'S posts in your replies...thanks


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 17, 2008, 07:39:55 PM
vms ...I think it is jackb that keep saying the peeps in Aruba are morphed into each other...Hard to find someone if you don't know what they look like and their name gets confused with someone elses!

UAU...I don't think that's the airport code, is it?  TIA


Several posters from Aruba used that term on occassion...including Arubagirl and Native Lingo. Checkme and Yliana and Lucy used it also.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 17, 2008, 07:42:08 PM
Subdude's opening windows:

Arawaks can't let the babylonian card (DirtyHand) sing because hand holding it dirty too! (polis)

Arawaks often go to pay in the small houses of babylon with offspring of the elders

DirtyHand is the link
He holds the real key (to the poison house)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 17, 2008, 07:42:30 PM
about dirtyhand probably a long shot but i ll have a go
in these posts simian shango like to juggle letters for example slanderfoot=fandersloot
van der straten: straten in english means streets
pronounce vanDIRstrEETs with a little imagination this makes DIRTEE
just a thought



I see Caps and COLUMBO'S posts in your replies...thanks

Srry didn't know this was mentioned before but then there's so much info havent read up on it all yet lol



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 07:42:53 PM
Lala's:

other card is dirty.....DirtyHand

The other card is van der Straten? I tend to think the cards are witnesses and suspects that if they tell what they know they can solve the case.  But then you and I never seem to agree on anything Shango. LOL

Simian says the boy was seen.

What boy?


LOL...I wonder that every time I read it!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 17, 2008, 07:43:08 PM
vms ...I think it is jackb that keep saying the peeps in Aruba are morphed into each other...Hard to find someone if you don't know what they look like and their name gets confused with someone elses!

UAU...I don't think that's the airport code, is it?  TIA


Several posters from Aruba used that term on occassion...including Arubagirl and Native Lingo. Checkme and Yliana and Lucy used it also.
Thanks, Mum. It must be a common way to refer to Aruba then...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 17, 2008, 07:43:33 PM
sgc


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 07:44:44 PM
vms ...I think it is jackb that keep saying the peeps in Aruba are morphed into each other...Hard to find someone if you don't know what they look like and their name gets confused with someone elses!

UAU...I don't think that's the airport code, is it?  TIA


Several posters from Aruba used that term on occassion...including Arubagirl and Native Lingo. Checkme and Yliana and Lucy used it also.


Lots of different things at that airport...if you get my drift!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 07:46:17 PM
sgc

??


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 17, 2008, 07:47:17 PM
the boy that was seen


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 07:48:16 PM
about dirtyhand probably a long shot but i ll have a go
in these posts simian shango like to juggle letters for example slanderfoot=fandersloot
van der straten: straten in english means streets
pronounce vanDIRstrEETs with a little imagination this makes DIRTEE
just a thought



I see Caps and COLUMBO'S posts in your replies...thanks

Srry didn't know this was mentioned before but then there's so much info havent read up on it all yet lol


No actually Caps got the Dir and COLUMBO the long arm of the law.
You put it all together...Thanks...you made Lala's happy!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 17, 2008, 07:49:51 PM
(http://i28.tinypic.com/2nkruxi.jpg)

(http://i26.tinypic.com/fbw7xt.jpg)

(http://i31.tinypic.com/o5xiee.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 17, 2008, 07:50:02 PM
the boy that was seen

Which one?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 07:51:26 PM
the boy that was seen

Never thought of SGC as a boy...when do they become a man down there?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on February 17, 2008, 07:51:33 PM
*******...did you look at the video?...I know you are good at recognizing people, maybe someone else will jump out of you!

Remember..It took us until last November to get a pic of Judge Smid!
I watched the video and he clearly said that is Ben King in that picture posted here by JE. I have watched all the old video's and that guy is clearly seen with Joran on several occasions transporting him to the courthouse,kia,the dna test..etc..

The video didn't show much except pics of KJ and Nit Wit that we havent seen before.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 17, 2008, 07:51:55 PM


may be wrong here.....but didn't Sim say that SGC made it into statements of JVDS-as being seen?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 17, 2008, 07:52:39 PM
the boy that was seen

Never thought of SGC as a boy...when do they become a man down there?

me too......but the comment ref'd SGC


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 17, 2008, 07:54:11 PM
about dirtyhand probably a long shot but i ll have a go
in these posts simian shango like to juggle letters for example slanderfoot=fandersloot
van der straten: straten in english means streets
pronounce vanDIRstrEETs with a little imagination this makes DIRTEE
just a thought




I see Caps and COLUMBO'S posts in your replies...thanks

Srry didn't know this was mentioned before but then there's so much info havent read up on it all yet lol


No actually Caps got the Dir and COLUMBO the long arm of the law.
You put it all together...Thanks...you made Lala's happy!


Glad to be of service if i made someone happy my day is good to thx


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 07:57:14 PM
the boy that was seen

Never thought of SGC as a boy...when do they become a man down there?

Rob is posting some pics from the video in the main thread!

Guess I should have said we have been discussing it for how long!!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 08:01:35 PM
(http://i28.tinypic.com/2nkruxi.jpg)

(http://i26.tinypic.com/fbw7xt.jpg)

(http://i31.tinypic.com/o5xiee.jpg)


Did we ever find out who that guy was vms? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 08:03:15 PM


may be wrong here.....but didn't Sim say that SGC made it into statements of JVDS-as being seen?


I'll check in the morning....JVDS stated he didn't know him, but Simian and all of us knew otherwise.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 17, 2008, 08:08:35 PM
BTW, until Shango shows up Simian is pretty much plain spoken. He is not a cryptic riddler until he posts as Merian Ernst.

He talks about insurance fraud...that was being discussed at the time. 
The sex slave angle that was also being talked up by the internet bunch.
He talks about Chandra Levy being found a year or so later.
He relates his trip to KIA and what it was like to be there.
He talks about the landfill and how the Americans were the builders.
He even defends the 3 perps at first against what the MSM is saying about them.
He tells what is happening on Aruba at the time.

Then......it all changes in the later part of June.  Something within ALE caused Simian's change...he starts talking about the 5th suspect and how this person is getting away with it all.  It is not a monologue it is a conversation with the other posters. When Paulus became a serious suspect it all changed.  By June 26 Simian is talking in riddles and mystery...then Shango appears the next day.   Until this time Simian was just conversing with the posters on the FP trying to relate what he knew as facts at the time. 

After Shango emerges Simian spends the rest of the time arguing each time Shango appears...the FP posters clearly were more intrigued with Shango's mysterious posts and even Checkme was jealous at times.   You have to read in context to what the other posters are saying...but then again I have been saying it forever. 

Shango did not want Joran to be a suspect or guilty of anything.  He was the innocent lamb that was just doing what he had to do or was paid to do.  He helped his daddy or whoever.  He was not guilty of anything...Shango clearly wanted to lay some of the blame on Natalee for getting herself into this mess.  It is there plain as day...but I just see things in a different light than some of you...doesn't mean it's wrong or right...it's only my opinion.  I bet some of you wish I would just go away. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 17, 2008, 08:09:23 PM
the boy that was seen

Never thought of SGC as a boy...when do they become a man down there?

Rob is posting some pics from the video in the main thread!

Guess I should have said we have been discussing it for how long!!!!

Yes you should.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 17, 2008, 08:11:18 PM
(http://i28.tinypic.com/2nkruxi.jpg)

(http://i26.tinypic.com/fbw7xt.jpg)

(http://i31.tinypic.com/o5xiee.jpg)


Did we ever find out who that guy was vms? TIA

It must be Ben King, as identified in the video that JE posted. JE says the other pic, previously thought to be him, are of a pastor


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 17, 2008, 08:15:57 PM
the boy that was seen

Never thought of SGC as a boy...when do they become a man down there?

Rob is posting some pics from the video in the main thread!

Guess I should have said we have been discussing it for how long!!!!

Yes you should.


I did and gave JE credit.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 17, 2008, 08:25:40 PM
I read someone wanted more info on aruba lions club thers lots a pictures in this link

http://www.arubalions.org/images/

http://www.arubalions.org/coppermine/

maybe its of some use


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 17, 2008, 08:29:40 PM
I read someone wanted more info on aruba lions club thers lots a pictures in this link

http://www.arubalions.org/images/

http://www.arubalions.org/coppermine/

maybe its of some use

Caps will be much appreciative of those pictures. Thanks.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on February 17, 2008, 08:40:37 PM
Picture taken before Joran went to give his DNA

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/benking.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 17, 2008, 08:51:35 PM
Picture taken before Joran went to give his DNA

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/benking.jpg)

A larger version here: http://media3.comcast.net/data/news/photoshow/html/int_news/182889.html

(http://i26.tinypic.com/2r6077b.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 17, 2008, 08:59:24 PM
Klaasend And LALA:

I was watching Miami Ink last night and The firt thing cam to my mind was what a dirty ugly arms.

The show is about TATOO's and so here is my other opinion

DIRTYHAND = TATOO = STEVE CROES.

I have been looking for some picture and found these.

See if you can identify any of these.

http://www.nel.aw/

the crooks of aruba


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on February 17, 2008, 09:01:48 PM
"Riversol-The "middle man" between the two? Possibly "DirtyHand"?"

Possible, but DH is probably part of LE. MO.

Riversol is mor likely to be connected/involved with casinos circuit and what goes on there ... public and private.  Just MO.  Does he have a son???


Hi Chata...I asked if he is Jewish, does anyone know?

I was thinking the Star of David...

I don't believe in "coincidences"

CHATA:  You quoted AllanK's posts.  IMO if it had not been for him coming across those photos of Amy Bradley, the possibility of this being Natalee's unfortunate fate would not have been researched.

MomInOhio: The person that saw Riverol in Aruba said the first "instict" was the word "Jewish" ???

And the Caracas connection would be Riverol & others.
(remember Paul Baxter?)

Wasn't it Florida that thought Shango was a friend of the Chicago mafia?
He was outting Posner's new "Aruba Mafia"





 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Memories .....Memories......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 17, 2008, 09:02:57 PM
I agree, LaLaMom....
IMO...Simian was trying to be helpful with local info
and possibly info from ALE
Shango is also trying to direct us in the right direction.  
That it goes way beyond Joran & the p.i.m.p.s.
(IMO they are all "pimps")

I think Shango uses clues with several meanings.

"Follow the music" in 2005

From C&C to "the beach" to the Allegro (fast tempo)to possibly the Radisson (Crescendo Hotel-volume) to the Wyndham (Royale Cabaret?)

It would make sense that the Allegro (w/4 owners in 2005 from Spain) was possibly Paulus "den" And the Wyndham (w/ owners in 2005 from Belize) Posner's "den"

Wasn't one of the first searches the Bird Sactuary across from the Wyndham? And then the Canashito Caves?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on February 17, 2008, 09:04:32 PM
the boy that was seen

Never thought of SGC as a boy...when do they become a man down there?

Mum - I think this may have more to do with their suntans than their actual age.   ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 17, 2008, 09:44:40 PM
Picture taken before Joran went to give his DNA

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/benking.jpg)

A larger version here: http://media3.comcast.net/data/news/photoshow/html/int_news/182889.html

(http://i26.tinypic.com/2r6077b.jpg)


Wel in this picture you can clearly see that they do not want to arrest him.

He is in handcuffs but with hand in the front, meanwhile the LAW says that during transportation hands must be handcuffs but in the back position till entering the building where they bring him in a seperate interogation room than handcuff release.

I bet you he jjust wals in ask for coffee and a hamburger.

This is just to show that how they treat one of there own..



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 17, 2008, 10:07:01 PM
Klaasend And LALA:

I was watching Miami Ink last night and The firt thing cam to my mind was what a dirty ugly arms.

The show is about TATOO's and so here is my other opinion

DIRTYHAND = TATOO = STEVE CROES.

I have been looking for some picture and found these.

See if you can identify any of these.

http://www.nel.aw/

the crooks of aruba


Thanks Caps.  I am getting some of our other monkeys to take a look also.  Let's see who we know.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on February 17, 2008, 10:11:27 PM
Picture taken before Joran went to give his DNA

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/benking.jpg)

A larger version here: http://media3.comcast.net/data/news/photoshow/html/int_news/182889.html

(http://i26.tinypic.com/2r6077b.jpg)


Wel in this picture you can clearly see that they do not want to arrest him.

He is in handcuffs but with hand in the front, meanwhile the LAW says that during transportation hands must be handcuffs but in the back position till entering the building where they bring him in a seperate interogation room than handcuff release.

I bet you he jjust wals in ask for coffee and a hamburger.

This is just to show that how they treat one of there own..



Caps,
There has been much discussion on the other thread regarding the man on the left with the blue shirt, Ben King.  I have been trying to determine if he is a lawyer all day, have come to the conclusion that he MUST be considering the jobs he's held.  Please check out all of the posts regarding him.  If not the driver you're looking for, most definately one of the DIRTYHANDS!  In my opinion anyway.....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 17, 2008, 10:23:20 PM
In this photo, the only one besides Oduber that I can for sure identy is EDISON BRIES:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/MEP1.jpg)


If I'm not mistaken he was accused of sexual harrassment last year plus some scandal in Curacao or Bonaire having to do with prostitution (I think).


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: San on February 17, 2008, 10:24:11 PM
Klaasend And LALA:

I was watching Miami Ink last night and The firt thing cam to my mind was what a dirty ugly arms.

The show is about TATOO's and so here is my other opinion

DIRTYHAND = TATOO = STEVE CROES.

I have been looking for some picture and found these.

See if you can identify any of these.

http://www.nel.aw/

the crooks of aruba


Thanks Caps.  I am getting some of our other monkeys to take a look also.  Let's see who we know.

Minister Booshi Wever, Minister of Tourism and Transport, Edison Briesen

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/ArubaMinisters.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 17, 2008, 10:35:50 PM
Who is the other guy on the right?  (My right) that is in other photos too? Any idea?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 17, 2008, 10:51:16 PM
Very good information posted by Tamikosmom in the NAH thread.
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #732 2/15 -
One month following the disappearance of Natalee Holloway there were those who recognized that justice would never be realized.

Janet

+++++++++++


http://newsblaze.com/story/2005070108300200001
http://eworldwire.com/pressreleases/12239

Is Aruba's Government Covering Up Again
EAST GREENWICH, R.I. (EWORLDWIRE) Jul 1, 2005

Rudy Croes, the Minister of Justice in Aruba, has every opportunity to question the Holloway investigation to assure that there is justice in Aruba even against the people that he did favors for and those he received favors from (the Dutch judicial officials).

Aruba is in a very difficult situation and this is not because of the American press, the Holloway case and most definitely not because of a web site by the name of "to hell with Aruba.com." Aruba is going through an extremely difficult period because of a nasty and corrupt government that owes favors to the different departments of the judicial system. The current government in Aruba, MEP has serious problems with the Dutch justice department yet they can not take a stand and voice their concerns due to the favors that they received over the years. The MEP government is maliciously leaking out information to the press about the Dutch police commissioner Jan van der Straten instead of confronting him or any other member of the justice department to ensure that there is no cover up in the investigation of the Holloway case.

The minister of justice, the political party MEP and the Dutch judges are portraying their partiality by bringing in a judge from a different Island to rule over the case yet the officials that are preparing the investigation are all friends and family of the suspect. How partial is this? Those who are preparing the investigation/case have access to all declarations, forensic reports, suspects and suspects family. Several reports by the international press have proven that the van der Sloot family is very close to the investigating team (The Dutch prosecutors office).

The habitual impartiality has been demonstrated in the past with several cases, one case in particular stands out. The case of Alexander Mathew against a Dutch government official, Ben Vocking whom now goes by the name of Ben King . In this particular case documents disappeared, forensic reports were over looked and witnesses were denied, these documents were in the favor of Alexander Mathew. Paul van der Sloot is a high ranking official in the judicial system and is close friends with Ben King, whom now works at the prosecution office. King was reportedly seen visiting Paul van der Sloot at his home when the Arubian police were performing a search of the van der Sloot residence. Mathew's entire case was tampered with. King said that his friend Paul van der Sloot helped him in the Mathew case. How many cases has and will Paul van der Sloot help cover up?

Mathew was isolated for two years and eight months to ensure that the truth would not surface. The Arubian press and the minister of justice, Rudy Croes played a large roll in the defamation of his character to justify his isolation. Now that the truth has surfaced, certain politicians and senators have raised concern that this corruption will repeat itself in the Holloway case and justice will not be served. The minister of justice Rudy Croes is attacking Alexander Mathew, the politicians and the senators in the local newspapers based upon lies. The minister of justice is even accusing Mathew of owning the website "to hell with Aruba. Com," this is a false accusation that is being supported by the Arubian newspaper "Bon Dia Aruba."

Mathew states that the government and the prosecution department is corrupt and is harming the Holloway family and the entire Arubian population. If the Holloway case had been investigated appropriately from the beginning it would have been resolved by now and Aruba would not still be suffering.

The Holloway family must be aware of the corruption that encompasses the Arubian government and judicial system so that they can obtain the appropriate international aid to assist in the search for the truth, justice and most importantly their daughter Natalie.

The government and prosecution officials should offer to take a lie detector test. Assure the world that there is no cover up in the Natalie Holloway case. Help clear Aruba's name.
     
Massimo
RI,    USA
4018645592 (phone)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 17, 2008, 10:51:53 PM
Who is the other guy on the right?  (My right) that is in other photos too? Any idea?

Lala's if I had known anyone elses name I would have written it on the photo.  I only know in that photo Oduber and Briesen.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 17, 2008, 10:55:40 PM
Sorry San, I didn't mean you...I was asking in general terms....sorry.  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on February 17, 2008, 11:12:44 PM
Very good information posted by Tamikosmom in the NAH thread.
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #732 2/15 -
One month following the disappearance of Natalee Holloway there were those who recognized that justice would never be realized.

Janet

+++++++++++


http://newsblaze.com/story/2005070108300200001
http://eworldwire.com/pressreleases/12239

Is Aruba's Government Covering Up Again
EAST GREENWICH, R.I. (EWORLDWIRE) Jul 1, 2005

Rudy Croes, the Minister of Justice in Aruba, has every opportunity to question the Holloway investigation to assure that there is justice in Aruba even against the people that he did favors for and those he received favors from (the Dutch judicial officials).

<snip>
     
Massimo
RI,    USA
4018645592 (phone)



Shango on June 30th, 2005 1:49 am 
Lamb and the Elder are stepping stones into the fetid pool of deception.  The rule of the Arawak King  is the Final word.  DirtyHand has fouled the air for all nearby, but the Arawak Nation will claim Babylonian Authority prevents them from hunting Lions, and DirtyHand.  But the Arawak king  controls destiny of all. The Arawak king  has DirtyHands and DirtyFeet. If he is to reign anew, he cannot be soiled more.  The babylonians have ruled the Arawak Nation through deception and stealth, and their charges, the Arawaks, speak now with the same forked tongue, on behalf of their king.  The gift the cowboys ask of the king of the Arawak Nation  is a mere trifle.  All ye who sing in the cyber-chorus lower your voices not!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 17, 2008, 11:15:23 PM
Who is the other guy on the right?  (My right) that is in other photos too? Any idea?

he seem to be from the DVA (Dienst Veilighet aruba


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 17, 2008, 11:39:00 PM
Who is the other guy on the right?  (My right) that is in other photos too? Any idea?

he seem to be from the DVA (Dienst Veilighet aruba


Well....okie dokie. LOL  I have no idea what you just said. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 17, 2008, 11:40:03 PM
Very good information posted by Tamikosmom in the NAH thread.
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #732 2/15 -
One month following the disappearance of Natalee Holloway there were those who recognized that justice would never be realized.

Janet

+++++++++++


http://newsblaze.com/story/2005070108300200001
http://eworldwire.com/pressreleases/12239

Is Aruba's Government Covering Up Again
EAST GREENWICH, R.I. (EWORLDWIRE) Jul 1, 2005

Rudy Croes, the Minister of Justice in Aruba, has every opportunity to question the Holloway investigation to assure that there is justice in Aruba even against the people that he did favors for and those he received favors from (the Dutch judicial officials).

<snip>
     
Massimo
RI,    USA
4018645592 (phone)



Shango on June 30th, 2005 1:49 am 
Lamb and the Elder are stepping stones into the fetid pool of deception.  The rule of the Arawak King  is the Final word.  DirtyHand has fouled the air for all nearby, but the Arawak Nation will claim Babylonian Authority prevents them from hunting Lions, and DirtyHand.  But the Arawak king  controls destiny of all. The Arawak king  has DirtyHands and DirtyFeet. If he is to reign anew, he cannot be soiled more.  The babylonians have ruled the Arawak Nation through deception and stealth, and their charges, the Arawaks, speak now with the same forked tongue, on behalf of their king.  The gift the cowboys ask of the king of the Arawak Nation  is a mere trifle.  All ye who sing in the cyber-chorus lower your voices not!


At least one other person agrees with me.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on February 17, 2008, 11:45:58 PM
Who is the other guy on the right?  (My right) that is in other photos too? Any idea?

he seem to be from the DVA (Dienst Veilighet aruba


Well....okie dokie. LOL  I have no idea what you just said. LOL
::MonkeyHaHa::  and I can't even try to help Lala's....lol


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on February 17, 2008, 11:54:19 PM
Who is the other guy on the right?  (My right) that is in other photos too? Any idea?

he seem to be from the DVA (Dienst Veilighet aruba


Well....okie dokie. LOL  I have no idea what you just said. LOL

The translator says that the "Dienst" is "service", I couldn't get anything to come up on google for DVA or the words written out that I think would apply.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on February 18, 2008, 12:01:21 AM
Very good information posted by Tamikosmom in the NAH thread.
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #732 2/15 -
One month following the disappearance of Natalee Holloway there were those who recognized that justice would never be realized.

Janet

+++++++++++


http://newsblaze.com/story/2005070108300200001
http://eworldwire.com/pressreleases/12239

Is Aruba's Government Covering Up Again
EAST GREENWICH, R.I. (EWORLDWIRE) Jul 1, 2005

Rudy Croes, the Minister of Justice in Aruba, has every opportunity to question the Holloway investigation to assure that there is justice in Aruba even against the people that he did favors for and those he received favors from (the Dutch judicial officials).

<snip>
     
Massimo
RI,    USA
4018645592 (phone)



Shango on June 30th, 2005 1:49 am 
Lamb and the Elder are stepping stones into the fetid pool of deception.  The rule of the Arawak King  is the Final word.  DirtyHand has fouled the air for all nearby, but the Arawak Nation will claim Babylonian Authority prevents them from hunting Lions, and DirtyHand.  But the Arawak king  controls destiny of all. The Arawak king  has DirtyHands and DirtyFeet. If he is to reign anew, he cannot be soiled more.  The babylonians have ruled the Arawak Nation through deception and stealth, and their charges, the Arawaks, speak now with the same forked tongue, on behalf of their king.  The gift the cowboys ask of the king of the Arawak Nation  is a mere trifle.  All ye who sing in the cyber-chorus lower your voices not!


At least one other person agrees with me.  :roll:

I agree too Lala's especially about the cyber-chorus lower your voices not!  I'd commented already in the other thread about Janet's posting, that's why I didn't say anything here too.
 ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 18, 2008, 01:10:10 AM
Who is the other guy on the right?  (My right) that is in other photos too? Any idea?

he seem to be from the DVA (Dienst Veilighet aruba


Well....okie dokie. LOL  I have no idea what you just said. LOL

The translator says that the "Dienst" is "service", I couldn't get anything to come up on google for DVA or the words written out that I think would apply.

Dienst Veiligheid Aruba or better know as the Blue Team

ARUBA Secret Service

The one behind Marisol with the glasses is mr. Farro the bodyguard.


I have someone checking these pictures... We will know by then in the moring...a good source.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 18, 2008, 01:17:34 AM
The guy in the blue shirt at the courthouse is  Colombian... Looks like a Hitman.., long hair. Will check with source..


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Altruist on February 18, 2008, 02:17:06 AM
You all are INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!!!!

Think Van de stratten was giving JVDS & PVDS private audiences & advice, Van de stratten did not believe for one second that pile of nonsense that JVDS spewed out of his mouth, knew that an autopsy would be performed in the USA, therefore Natalee would NOT be returned to her family.  PVDS did not necessarily share with Van de stratten the blackmail he had on the higherup politicians & judges.  Van de stratten was played by PVDS, he thought PVDS was his best friend, right?  Geraldo brought forward that bit of info, as a quote.  So Van de stratten is BOTH a dirtyhand & a card.  Van de stratten did not specifically know that there were workings going on behind the scenes at that point, if he had he wouldn't have been forced to retire from LieRuba.  Van de stratten had NO PLANS TO RETIRE, imo.  He was sacrificed thinking this would coverup the involvement of theresa croes, karin janssen, croes, oduber.  Van de stratten would be the whole blame for all the evidence, statements that disappeared.  We know now that it was the plan of PVDS from the beginning, that PVDS knew that HIS SON would not be JAILED for a long period of time.  Remember 146 days, that was his promise & the corrupt delivered.

Now where is that handsome, ethical, ambitious de Vries to wrap it all up & present it to the people of the Netherlands & LieRuba.  The Netherlands after all still has many of these people on the payroll of the taxpayers of the Netherlands to continue with their DIRTY TRICKS, to contaminate the halls of Justice.  If King isn't still working for the Attorney General then he is in the Netherlands, Janssen is in the Netherlands, Van de stratten is on Bonaire, the Judges of the ABC's will be returning to the Netherlands.  You think that JVDS is the only deranged unit of Dutch heritage??????  I don't.  If this crime goes without being properly prosecuted, there will be more.  We had Andrew Luster, who was tried & convicted but then fled, who had it not been for a Bounty Hunter who broke the laws of Mexico would still be free to roam & continue his preying on innocent people.  When the Mexican police searched his room he had an abundance of the date rape drug.  It is very important that this horrible crime be stopped, not to continue without serious consequences or the reoccurance of such depravity is probable.

There is a lot at stake for the people of the Netherlands.  A lot!!!!!!!!

I still believe that Shango was a misdirectant affiliated with the extortion, to let those being blackmailed realize how far the media would be covering this & just how ruined they would become if the truth would ever be allowed out cuz the trap of JVDS would be running non stop to save his cowardly ugly criminal ass.

Thanks for all you all are doing, will be reading daily.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Altruist on February 18, 2008, 02:26:27 AM
I still believe that Shango was a misdirectant affiliated with the extortion, to let those being blackmailed realize how far the media would be covering this & just how ruined they would become if the truth would ever be allowed out cuz the trap of I still believe that Shango was a misdirectant affiliated with the extortion, to let those being blackmailed realize how far the media would be covering this & just how ruined they would become if the truth would ever be allowed out cuz the trap of PVDS JVDS would be running non stop to save his cowardly ugly criminal ass.  PVDS made the decision, he & JVDS are complicit in the murder of Natalee Holloway, IT WAS NO ACCIDENT.

Thanks for all you all are doing, will be reading daily.
   


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: cubbeegirl on February 18, 2008, 09:19:24 AM
Lala's..... after being crashed for so long, am finally getting caught up.....
I know that I use to say that Shango gave me a headache, but have been reading here and have to say that I am starting to get it! You will definitely be seeing me on this thread from now on......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 18, 2008, 10:18:32 AM
Who is the other guy on the right?  (My right) that is in other photos too? Any idea?

he seem to be from the DVA (Dienst Veilighet aruba


Well....okie dokie. LOL  I have no idea what you just said. LOL

The translator says that the "Dienst" is "service", I couldn't get anything to come up on google for DVA or the words written out that I think would apply.

Dienst Veiligheid Aruba or better know as the Blue Team

ARUBA Secret Service

The one behind Marisol with the glasses is mr. Farro the bodyguard.


I have someone checking these pictures... We will know by then in the moring...a good source.


If he's Aruba Secret Service they need to replace him.  He sure inst' paying attention to that crowd...he's more interested in getting his picture taken with the  big dog.  Maybe that's how it works on Aruba...who knows?  MOO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 18, 2008, 10:35:00 AM
I still believe that Shango was a misdirectant affiliated with the extortion, to let those being blackmailed realize how far the media would be covering this & just how ruined they would become if the truth would ever be allowed out cuz the trap of I still believe that Shango was a misdirectant affiliated with the extortion, to let those being blackmailed realize how far the media would be covering this & just how ruined they would become if the truth would ever be allowed out cuz the trap of PVDS JVDS would be running non stop to save his cowardly ugly criminal ass.  PVDS made the decision, he & JVDS are complicit in the murder of Natalee Holloway, IT WAS NO ACCIDENT.

Thanks for all you all are doing, will be reading daily.
   

No doubt that Shango came on board as a counter to what Simian was saying.  Afterall, Simian was giving out information that was being discussed among the ALE and the porsecution.  You can see that quite easily.  Simian was ALE or was very connected to ALE in some way.  There is no other way that Simian would have known about the 2 AM phone calls or the timelines not matching.  Simian didn't come out and say it, but he/she or the ALE connection knew there was a 4 AM stop or pick up made by Paulus.  Simian became more careful with words when things began to heat up...thus the 5th suspect story.  That person is someone that did not get an extended jail stay.  That is the person that Simian thought had some answers or he would not have been so upset that they let him/her go at the time.

Simian was trying to tell us about Steve Croes when suddenly Shango appears.  Now, some think Simian and Shango were one and the same.  That would be difficult to prove with out one of them speaking up and revealing their identity since there are two (sometimes even three) different IP's for Simian and Shango one in the USA and the other in Aruba.   Shango began trying to get attention away from Simian, but it didn't work.  Simian was known by some of the Aruban posters at the time and they trusted him/her more than Shango.  That tells me that Shango was indeed not on Aruba at the time he/she posted OR Shango was feeding info to someone that was located here in the USA.

As the days went on, Shango began to tell us a little of what had been happening in Aruba and how it related to the Natalee situation. There are times that he made sense and then at other times he's way off the wall...that is why the Shango mystery is still here with us and still being debated.  As you can see, none of us agree on everything, but there are things that we all agree on and that is this underlying corruption story that is just now beginning to surface as hard facts.  Of course, us Shango people have known this for some time...why do you think they gave us this thread?  They knew we had to be a little nutty to work on this stuff for over 2 years.

Please come visit more often.  What you see in here is the same as on the NAH thread a groupd of people that want to see justice for Natalee.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: cubbeegirl on February 18, 2008, 10:43:04 AM
I still believe that Shango was a misdirectant affiliated with the extortion, to let those being blackmailed realize how far the media would be covering this & just how ruined they would become if the truth would ever be allowed out cuz the trap of I still believe that Shango was a misdirectant affiliated with the extortion, to let those being blackmailed realize how far the media would be covering this & just how ruined they would become if the truth would ever be allowed out cuz the trap of PVDS JVDS would be running non stop to save his cowardly ugly criminal ass.  PVDS made the decision, he & JVDS are complicit in the murder of Natalee Holloway, IT WAS NO ACCIDENT.

Thanks for all you all are doing, will be reading daily.
   

No doubt that Shango came on board as a counter to what Simian was saying.  Afterall, Simian was giving out information that was being discussed among the ALE and the porsecution.  You can see that quite easily.  Simian was ALE or was very connected to ALE in some way.  There is no other way that Simian would have known about the 2 AM phone calls or the timelines not matching.  Simian didn't come out and say it, but he/she or the ALE connection knew there was a 4 AM stop or pick up made by Paulus.  Simian became more careful with words when things began to heat up...thus the 5th suspect story.  That person is someone that did not get an extended jail stay.  That is the person that Simian thought had some answers or he would not have been so upset that they let him/her go at the time.

Simian was trying to tell us about Steve Croes when suddenly Shango appears.  Now, some think Simian and Shango were one and the same.  That would be difficult to prove with out one of them speaking up and revealing their identity since there are two (sometimes even three) different IP's for Simian and Shango one in the USA and the other in Aruba.   Shango began trying to get attention away from Simian, but it didn't work.  Simian was known by some of the Aruban posters at the time and they trusted him/her more than Shango.  That tells me that Shango was indeed not on Aruba at the time he/she posted OR Shango was feeding info to someone that was located here in the USA.

As the days went on, Shango began to tell us a little of what had been happening in Aruba and how it related to the Natalee situation. There are times that he made sense and then at other times he's way off the wall...that is why the Shango mystery is still here with us and still being debated.  As you can see, none of us agree on everything, but there are things that we all agree on and that is this underlying corruption story that is just now beginning to surface as hard facts.  Of course, us Shango people have known this for some time...why do you think they gave us this thread?  They knew we had to be a little nutty to work on this stuff for over 2 years.

Please come visit more often.  What you see in here is the same as on the NAH thread a groupd of people that want to see justice for Natalee.

Lala's I have to admit to kind of skimming through this thread due to the fact that riddles of any sort give me a headache... I started out reading the Simian,Shango posts in the beginning and while I felt they could have some credence could never make sense of it....now I am beginning to see differently...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 18, 2008, 11:38:11 AM
Ben Vocking came from Holland to take the position of Director at KIA (Prison of Aruba). After he got a incident (fight) with an inmate he was send to the hospital where he was for more than 2 months with head injuries. He was dismissed from KIA and start to work after more than a year and a half disabled, at the Prosecutor's office as an assistant and a help in other justice department. He was introduced in one of the two KIWANIS Club in Aruba, Palm Beach KIWANIS by his neighbor, who happens to be one of the founder of PBKiwanis.

The gentleman in blue shirt that was on the picture is a Dutch of Indonisian descend. I believe he is working with the RST which department of inspectors falls directly under Holland. But we will find out exactly who he is.As his face is also known in the Horeca Industry and might be a friend of the VDS. But my guess will be RST.

The other picture of the 3 men are Paulus van der Sloot, Ben Vocking and infront is Mr. Carlo, the lawyer of Joran, who happens to be a son of a former high police officer and well respected person. At this moment, PvdS is working as a lawyer at Carlo's office.

The picture with the 3 persons all in yellow, was taken after the elction was known and are all members of the MEP party who are at this moment in the power of government. The dark tall man on the right is mr. Tevreden, an musician in a rap group before named BMW. He went after the election to Holland on a study assignment from the government.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 18, 2008, 11:40:44 AM
Simian on June 30th, 2005 2:42 pm

The Simian has an IQ of 149 as measured by Gringos.

All of the words of the cohorts of the boy and the Hindus have been hi-jacked. For weeks already. The confrontation of yesterday was brutal. More lies woven. The boy has to fall apart. The Babylonians have their swords ready…

North American special interests have organized a “human chain of prayers” in Aruba. From the Wyndham to the Holiday Inn. Are afraid for their multi-million dollar investments? The Simian heard from the Gringos say they are doing OK. The bread won’t be taken from them. They will just sit this one out.



Let's look at this supposed statement from Simian. What was happening at the time? 

The police car conversation had taken place on June 24 and the transcript was recorded  as having been made available on June 29.


 Transcripts of Audio Recordings
Name: Transcript of an audio recording of a conversation between Deepak Kalpoe, Satish Kalpoe, and loran van der Sloot
Date: 29 June 2005
Pages; 7
Writer/Initiator: Hanskoemar Mohan
Description: the recording was made while suspects were being transported to KIA (prison)
Responsive to Requests 3 and 53



Clearly, Simian knew what these transcripts said and apparently had not seen them until June 29......so WHO IS SIMIAN???

Simian had read those transcripts the day the transcription was finished.  Simian had seen them OR was told what they said.  I rest my case on Simian being ALE or had a very close ALE connection.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 18, 2008, 11:49:32 AM
Oops!  I forgot to add this Simian could have been one of the doppelgangers too. So how did they know?  Sorry, I never get my thoughts on paper in order. I need lunch.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 18, 2008, 01:56:00 PM
JMO...I think Shango's "Arawak King" is: PM Arthur Owen

http://barbadosfreepress.wordpress.com/2007/01/05/fashion-barbados-king-arthurs-new-clothes/

Didn't investigators go early on to Bahamas?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 18, 2008, 03:30:46 PM
Reina Beatrix Airport (AUA) Details - ArubaUpdate airport details, click here. Reina Beatrix (AUA) Aruba. User's Rating Not Rated. Airport Code : AUA Airport Name : Reina Beatrix (?) ...
www.world-airport-codes.com/aruba/reina-beatrix-378.html - 16k -


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 18, 2008, 03:46:37 PM
UAU...amongst other things...

FOP…..Homeland Security…Customs=DEA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 18, 2008, 04:36:32 PM
UAU...amongst other things...

FOP…..Homeland Security…Customs=DEA


What is it that we are looking for.

I am a bit lost...



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 18, 2008, 04:47:57 PM
Ben Vocking came from Holland to take the position of Director at KIA (Prison of Aruba). After he got a incident (fight) with an inmate he was send to the hospital where he was for more than 2 months with head injuries. He was dismissed from KIA and start to work after more than a year and a half disabled, at the Prosecutor's office as an assistant and a help in other justice department. He was introduced in one of the two KIWANIS Club in Aruba, Palm Beach KIWANIS by his neighbor, who happens to be one of the founder of PBKiwanis.

The gentleman in blue shirt that was on the picture is a Dutch of Indonisian descend. I believe he is working with the RST which department of inspectors falls directly under Holland. But we will find out exactly who he is.As his face is also known in the Horeca Industry and might be a friend of the VDS. But my guess will be RST.

The other picture of the 3 men are Paulus van der Sloot, Ben Vocking and infront is Mr. Carlo, the lawyer of Joran, who happens to be a son of a former high police officer and well respected person. At this moment, PvdS is working as a lawyer at Carlo's office.

The picture with the 3 persons all in yellow, was taken after the elction was known and are all members of the MEP party who are at this moment in the power of government. The dark tall man on the right is mr. Tevreden, an musician in a rap group before named BMW. He went after the election to Holland on a study assignment from the government.

A study assignment?  What is that?  When does a musician in a rap group get afforded the luxury of being right up front with someone like Oduber without some connection?  He sure looks like he's buddies with Nelson, there.  That is interesting to say the least.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 18, 2008, 04:52:51 PM
Reina Beatrix Airport (AUA) Details - ArubaUpdate airport details, click here. Reina Beatrix (AUA) Aruba. User's Rating Not Rated. Airport Code : AUA Airport Name : Reina Beatrix (?) ...
www.world-airport-codes.com/aruba/reina-beatrix-378.html - 16k -



I think you have the correct term.  Many early posters used that term when talking about Aruba...seems there has always been a connection to things at the airport...Universal Air employees...such as...Alberto Groenveldt and Caludio Ehteridge and the lady that worked there (forgot her name, sorry) and of course the one person that became a college student and was rumored (well, maybe not rumored, speculated to be the provider of all things Shango) Gabriel Leo....just to name a few. One of these people was posting as Checkme...trust me on this one.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 18, 2008, 04:57:16 PM
quote CAPSThis stupidity was the idea of Michel Dubero, so that that Tourist can call home from anywhere via a credit card at a cost of 20.00 dollar when you see the bill from your credit card. Another type of providing someone linked to the Government with money to implement a stupid idea all over the Island and a $20.00 call for 5 min talk.

Corruption is in every corner



Caps any relation….I found a post on him, Darwin, that said he wasn’t all he appeared to be. Can’t put my hands on it right now.


DUBERO, Darwin (DOB 9-6-85) – reportedly a member of the Pimps

Please explain AUA..Lala's...Thanks

BBL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 18, 2008, 05:10:44 PM
Reina Beatrix Airport (AUA) Details - ArubaUpdate airport details, click here. Reina Beatrix (AUA) Aruba. User's Rating Not Rated. Airport Code : AUA Airport Name : Reina Beatrix (?) ...
www.world-airport-codes.com/aruba/reina-beatrix-378.html - 16k -



I think you have the correct term.  Many early posters used that term when talking about Aruba...seems there has always been a connection to things at the airport...Universal Air employees...such as...Alberto Groenveldt and Caludio Ehteridge and the lady that worked there (forgot her name, sorry) and of course the one person that became a college student and was rumored (well, maybe not rumored, speculated to be the provider of all things Shango) Gabriel Leo....just to name a few. One of these people was posting as Checkme...trust me on this one.


The right way to find about this airport is to look who is managing it.

The Shiphol Group. they are the so call Dutch Elite group that 1 squer meter space in the Airport will cost $30.00 per month for rent. The guys came in and made it for the worse. Airport Tax went up, Parking went up, to rent a place in the Airport. you must be either a person with a lot of cash rolling or must some sort of King where money is not anobject.

All the Department of the Government has been replace with Dutch Directors, Including the Post office.

so to keep it in the departments, you must have the same players (of the same hand as Shango would say) to keep the corruption going.

Thats why the PM is at al cost trying to open doors for the European on Aruba...He said that it is Tourisim. But, the European go to Spain, France, Italie, Majorca, Brazil.

But Aruba they come to laundry money. and they know that that is a no no in the USA.

any offshore company in Aruba is doing that. skimming on taxes, foney deals, etc.

Like Shango say how can one hunt for Lions when the lions are In charge of the Hunt is a lion.

 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 18, 2008, 05:14:56 PM
The price is wrong for the sq. footage. it is $300.00 per month. and thats why only the business that are in the airport are fron this Mr. Lacle that was persecuted by the USA for money Laundry.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 18, 2008, 05:17:43 PM
These airport most likely "knew things"
One of the reasons Charles Croes knew to go to Arashi Beach
Looking for info/address about Joran

Then it appears most left Aruba for FL
Where most are attending college

Most likely it is them posting on the front page


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 18, 2008, 05:44:22 PM
These airport most likely "knew things"
One of the reasons Charles Croes knew to go to Arashi Beach
Looking for info/address about Joran

Then it appears most left Aruba for FL
Where most are attending college

Most likely it is them posting on the front page

Actually only one or two of them went to Florida...and they have since returned to Aruba.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Pita on February 18, 2008, 07:36:10 PM
quote CAPSThis stupidity was the idea of Michel Dubero, so that that Tourist can call home from anywhere via a credit card at a cost of 20.00 dollar when you see the bill from your credit card. Another type of providing someone linked to the Government with money to implement a stupid idea all over the Island and a $20.00 call for 5 min talk.

Corruption is in every corner



Caps any relation….I found a post on him, Darwin, that said he wasn’t all he appeared to be. Can’t put my hands on it right now.


DUBERO, Darwin (DOB 9-6-85) – reportedly a member of the Pimps

Please explain AUA..Lala's...Thanks

BBL


Darwin Dubero (DOB 9-6-85)
Alumni Valencia College 2007


(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/CMPM/DarwinDubero.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 18, 2008, 08:03:52 PM
As it seems Shango's clues have several meanings....
"Royal House" on Aruba is most likely PM Oduber

This is interesting...Between the Wyndham & Radisson in 2005 was
the Aruba Grand   It's VIP suites: Royal Palace Club

On the beach is Unique Watersports
Owners: live on Montanja
and are from Texas
http://www.visitaruba.com/uniquesports/
(Paulus friend with the boat?)
We also offer two locations to depart from. Radisson Resort on Palm Pier

-----------------------------------
And this rental: Royal Palm Villa
http://www.arubavillarental.com/villa-2.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 18, 2008, 08:17:36 PM
As it seems Shango's clues have several meanings....
"Royal House" on Aruba is most likely PM Oduber

This is interesting...Between the Wyndham & Radisson in 2005 was
the Aruba Grand   It's VIP suites: Royal Palace Club

On the beach is Unique Watersports
Owners: live on Montanja
and are from Texas
http://www.visitaruba.com/uniquesports/
(Paulus friend with the boat?)
We also offer two locations to depart from. Radisson Resort on Palm Pier

-----------------------------------
And this rental: Royal Palm Villa
http://www.arubavillarental.com/villa-2.html

I would imagine there are alot of people living in Montanja with boats.  Unless you can find some other connection there's no reason to think they are friends of PVDS:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/unique.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 18, 2008, 08:47:24 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:51 pm   ***** RITZ ****
The 46th spirit does not walk the same circle as the elders, this shall be his downfall


In this post, Shango is telling us how the Holloway's should proceed to get Justice.

AN INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT
In 1993, the Commission's working group produced a nearly complete first draft of
a statute.2 Although the Commission as a whole did not consider the product of the
working group in 1993, the draft was submitted to the General Assembly so that the
Commission would have the benefit of the views of governments before undertaking a
second draft. The comments of governments, though including some cautionary and
hesitant voices, were generally positive and the Commission was requested to continue
its work.3 Among the aspects of the first draft questioned by governments were the
open-ended inclusion of crimes under customary law, the extent to which the existing
system of national jurisdiction and international cooperation seemed in danger of being
preempted by a costly and untested regime, the inadequate recognition of the central
role of the Security Council in matters of peace and security, and the great complexity
of the proposed regime. The 1992/ 1993 working group was reconstituted and Profes­
sor James Crawford, who had served from the beginning as the acknowledged de facto
special expert, succeeded Judge Abdul Koroma as chairman after Judge Koroma was
elected to the International Court of Justice.

The Commission undertook to prepare a second draft in the light of the written
and oral comments of governments, the progress made with the ad hoc Tribunal for
Yugoslavia, and such other developments as the appointment by the Security Council
of a commission to investigate the situation in Rwanda similar to the commission that
had preceded the creation of the ad hoc Tribunal for Yugoslavia. This second draft was
adopted by the Commission at the 1994 session.

The ILC made various revisions in the preamble and draft articles to underscore the
extent to which the proposed court would supplement and not displace existing national

____________________
1 Report of the International Law Commission on the work of its forty-sixth session, UN GAOR, 49th Sess.,
Supp. No. 10, at 382, 383, UN Doc. A/49/10 (1994) [hereinafter 1994 ILC Report].
2 Report of the International Law Commission on the work of its forty-fifth session, UN GAOR, 48th Sess.,
Supp. No. 10, UN Doc. A/48/10 (1993).
3 See UN Doc. A/CN.4/458 and Adds. 1-8, and UN Doc. A/CN.4/457 ( 1994).


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 18, 2008, 09:02:42 PM
The 46th spirit does not walk the same circle as the elders,
this shall be his downfall


IMO..."46th spirit" is the Wyndham Hotel (Ambrosio Riverol & Belize owners)
and
Bifrons, the 46th Spirit, that makes people around him aware of their own mortality.

Is Riverol, also THE DirtyHand...The "go-between" of Allegro & Wyndham's "goings on's"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Sam on February 18, 2008, 09:06:32 PM
I keep going back to the beginning to try to see if there is anything we have missed. It looks to me like everything was known before the end of June 2005.

In these post I am copying and pasting in here are a few that are not Simian or Shango but a couple of others. Just more food for thought.#  Shadoworm on June 25th, 2005 12:17 pm

Found a cache of the original

UPDATE 6/15/05

[NOTE FROM THE MIRACLIST. This is the information I received when asking
about the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Sometimes I am wrong as
you can see from the past prediction archive. The correct way to approach
the use of psychics in a case is to ask four or five psychics to read and look
for a common thread then mix it with hard detective work and evidence so
resources are not wasted on one person’s leads. The most well known
psychic can be wrong on a case but a group of psychics from different
backgrounds and locales usually are not. These are excerpts from a longer,
more detailed reading. I would encourage other psychics to post their
findings as well.]

HS 06/04/05

Q: I would like to do a reading on the disappearance of Natalee Holloway on
the island of Aruba. Please give me something to bring some closure for
those who are grieving.

These girls freeing summer fun turned tragic when Natalee made a grievous
error in judgment that ultimately cost her life…Natalee wanted to meet some
new people and went with a handsome-enough local man to a party away
from the group. When she received the invitation, she was surprised and
honored (flattered) to be selected as she had previously experienced
damage to her self esteem at the competitive high school filled with attractive
girls… So that night she had a drink and felt uninhibited. When asked to
leave with a promise to return before the others left the bar, she accepted.
She immediately knew she had made a mistake in getting in the small car
(maybe a Toyota-looking car). Two other men came along and that
frightened her. They drove left after exiting the bar through the town and
began the ascent on a hilly, curving street…They arrived at a nice house that
overlooks the town to a certain degree (not too high)… She was drugged with
a local ecstasy substitute…The other men left and she hardly noticed…The
white male repeated raped….her. She was innocent to some of this and
became hysterical. She was so out of control that he strangled her with his
bare hands…The white male was so confident he would not be caught; her
clothes were put in the local trash bin for pick up in front of the house…So
Natalee was taken on the fishing boat out to sea by someone who knew the
white male and was called at about 3:30AM… The boat has blue somewhat
scrolled writing on the back . It lists or slants in the water to the left
somewhat when viewed from behind as it sits in the water at the public
marina… a local man drove the boat straight out from the marina at about 35
mph for 32 minutes…he weighted and pushed her body overboard…Natalee
has found some peace after the traumatic act. She is deeply regretful about
the agony it is causing everyone (especially her mother) but what is done is
done. Her body may never be found.
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/25/natalee-holloway-saturday-june-25/

#  subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:37 pm

Simian: Last clue re: Babylonians was your best so far. Babylonian culture is known for Hammurabi, among other things. He was the sixth king of this dynasty was Hammurabi (1792-1750 BC) who made Babylon the capital of a vast empire and is best remembered for his code of laws. (Ask Jeeves)

Simian’s Babylonians (sounds nice, huh?) are the Aruban authorities. PVDS knows his way “around the palace” of law, so the Aruban police have to set him up to get around the freedom from testifying between JVDS and PVDS.

Well done, Simiam. Had to look up the Babylonian reference.



#  Simian on June 25th, 2005 8:57 pm

The Babylonians might release the Hindus.

The boy knows his father knows the way. He’s been inside the palace for many years. It has worked before. This time too much is at stake. This time there was someone there to hear the tree fall.

The music man is singing. The Simian can’t understand the words.

A bloody tongue is a bloody tongue. Swollen and thick. This boy is lost.


#  ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:40 pm

Yes, something bad did happened. But it was an accident, it wasn’t meant to happen … as it did not happen on the beach as assumed,

 rather, it was in a house.

This one was interesting. Was it a different Person?


#  Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:06 pm

There is whisperer on the line. The sword of Damocles will soon fall. I can’t say whose on the throne.

Did he think he could rule forever from his hideaway?

All along the gamblers knew who he was.













Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 18, 2008, 09:15:33 PM
quote CAPSThis stupidity was the idea of Michel Dubero, so that that Tourist can call home from anywhere via a credit card at a cost of 20.00 dollar when you see the bill from your credit card. Another type of providing someone linked to the Government with money to implement a stupid idea all over the Island and a $20.00 call for 5 min talk.

Corruption is in every corner



Caps any relation….I found a post on him, Darwin, that said he wasn’t all he appeared to be. Can’t put my hands on it right now.


DUBERO, Darwin (DOB 9-6-85) – reportedly a member of the Pimps

Please explain AUA..Lala's...Thanks

BBL


Darwin Dubero (DOB 9-6-85)
Alumni Valencia College 2007


(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/CMPM/DarwinDubero.jpg)


Thanks Pita...I will look for that post on him tomorrow. I followed a link from the front page on the 'Haunting Evidence’  show.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 18, 2008, 09:20:35 PM
Quote
This one was interesting. Was it a different Person?


#  Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:06 pm

There is whisperer on the line. The sword of Damocles will soon fall. I can’t say whose on the throne.

Did he think he could rule forever from his hideaway?

All along the gamblers knew who he was.

If you are asking if this was the real Simian, the answer is YES.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 18, 2008, 09:30:57 PM
Lala's..any clue how far I'd have to go back to find those Shock posts you posted that day. ...LOL

Tib...now you know I'm a lost cause....the boy!

Good to see so many 'veterans' in here lately and of course new Monkey faces.


Will repost for the new ones and of course me....



Links and posts for Shango and Simian

These are the links that Lala’s posted from page 28

Simian link
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1194.0

Shango link
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=281.0


There is another poster Merian Ernest. Check it out also.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=223.0


Link to Shango’s posts from Magnolia, page 28

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.520


Links to the missing Simian posts…169-179

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.940
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.960





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 18, 2008, 09:35:27 PM
Caps...didn't find much on your BMW, but cars....LOL

No seriously only a rapper out of Florida I think...pretty big guy though. Not like the guy in the pic. Will have another look in the morning. Not much time this week.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 18, 2008, 09:36:44 PM
Quote
This one was interesting. Was it a different Person?


#  Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:06 pm

There is whisperer on the line. The sword of Damocles will soon fall. I can’t say whose on the throne.

Did he think he could rule forever from his hideaway?

All along the gamblers knew who he was.

If you are asking if this was the real Simian, the answer is YES.


How about this interpretation:

Indeed this tyrant [Dionysius II of Syracuse] himself gave his judgment as to how fortunate he was. For when one of his flatterers, Damocles, mentioned in conversation the wealth of Dionysius, the majesty of his rule, the abundance of his possessions, the magnificence of the royal palace and denied that there had ever been anyone more fortunate, he said, 'So, Damocles, since this life delights you, do you wish to taste it yourself and make trial of my fortune?'
 
 
When Damocles said that he desired this, Dionysius gave orders that the man be placed on a golden couch covered with a most beautiful woven rug, embroidered with splendid works; he adorned many sideboards with chased silver and gold; then he gave orders that chosen boys of outstanding beauty should stand by his table and that they, watching for a sign from Damocles, should attentively wait on him; there were unguents and garlands; perfumes were burning; tables were piled up with the most select foods. Damocles seemed to himself fortunate.

In the middle of this luxury Dionysius ordered that a shining sword, fastened from the ceiling by a horse-hair, be let down so that it hung over the neck of that fortunate man. And so he looked neither at those handsome waiters nor the wonderful silver work, nor did he stretch his hand to the table. Now the very wreaths slipped off. Finally he begged the tyrant that he should be allowed to depart because he no longer wanted to be fortunate.
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 18, 2008, 09:42:13 PM
CapsLockWizard:
May I ask...Were you recently visitng Aruba or do you live there?

Wouldn't this be a spectacular place to stay!?
Royal Palm Villa
http://www.arubavillarental.com/villa-2.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 18, 2008, 10:05:03 PM
Lala's..any clue how far I'd have to go back to find those Shock posts you posted that day. ...LOL

Tib...now you know I'm a lost cause....the boy!

Good to see so many 'veterans' in here lately and of course new Monkey faces.


Will repost for the new ones and of course me....



Links and posts for Shango and Simian

These are the links that Lala’s posted from page 28

Simian link
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1194.0

Shango link
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=281.0


There is another poster Merian Ernest. Check it out also.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=223.0


Link to Shango’s posts from Magnolia, page 28

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.520


Links to the missing Simian posts…169-179

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.940
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.960






Hang on and I will get the whole set for you and post them in here.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 18, 2008, 10:30:21 PM
CapsLockWizard:
May I ask...Were you recently visitng Aruba or do you live there?

Wouldn't this be a spectacular place to stay!?
Royal Palm Villa
http://www.arubavillarental.com/villa-2.html

I live here now, After september 11, I came down to see my parents.
 
These are the best if you can rent one or buy, They belong to the Tierra Del Sol Development.
Spectacular yes indeed. but if money is not an object, go for it. the view ...wow....sun..

if they clean up the corruption of the island. it will be a paradise again.

it is my dream place too, but I am a poor man.




i


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 18, 2008, 10:40:42 PM
I do not know if these are complete or not...this is all that I have at this time.  Don't hold me to the authenticity of these either.

SHOCKtheMOKEY Says:
June 23rd, 2005 at 10:18 am
the submarine pinged….im being watched

SHOCKtheMOKEY Says:
June 23rd, 2005 at 10:44 am
thongs are getting weird here, VERY weird. just keep your eye on noord

SHOCKtheMONKEY Says:
June 23rd, 2005 at 11:03 am
the right people are doing what needs to be done. be patient

SHOCKtheMONKEY Says:
June 23rd, 2005 at 11:11 am
major activity in noord. more than before! the island is hot today. red hot! big like the moon was lastnight. remember, its not always as it appears to be. ask csr, he knows all.

SHOCKtheMONKEY Says:
June 23rd, 2005 at 11:18 am
these boards are being watched. wording of comments are monitored and being obscure is the only way to communicate right now.

SHOCKtheMONKEY Says:
June 23rd, 2005 at 11:30 am
they have been and still are in columbia and venequela…..way big stuff going on…..way big

SHOCKtheMONKEY Says:
June 23rd, 2005 at 11:32 am
the PIMPle is about to pop

SHOCKtheMONKEY Says:
June 23rd, 2005 at 11:39 am
the boys are innocent. only witness. co and sa are key.

SHOCKtheMONKEY Says:
June 23rd, 2005 at 11:52 am
are any of you in aruba as am i? if you dont want my clues then i wont post anymore. my safety isn’t worth it…..

SHOCKtheMONKEY Says:
June 23rd, 2005 at 12:06 pm
big pappy, im not accustomed to risking my safety to give information. i thought my information would be appreciated here, i was wrong. i will leave you to your own devices. i thought u would like to know first hand whats happening here. your u.s. news never tells all. NEVER.



ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:08 pm
To my faithful believers:
This may be my last post. But I’ll tell you what’s going on. The younger VDS did it. No admission of guilt yet, but witnesses to prove. Awaiting DNA results to confirm will be soon. Two more possible arrests. DJ was the “Vessel”. Sorry for cryptic message, but my job is on the line. Still I remain true to you bloggers and the truth shall set us free. A mystery is only as mysterious as the mind allows it to be. Sometimes the truth is right in front of your face …

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:14 pm
If you’ve seen the evidence and live here, you would draw the same conclusions …

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:16 pm
could arrive with new judge… plane was delayed… may have been the reason … hand delievering the DNA results …

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
Sim, you working tonight?

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:23 pm
who’s to say there was a trojan horse? There are other forms …

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:24 pm
kristin .. i can not comment. But I told you two more arrests.

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The one with the longest legs begs …

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:29 pm
have you noticed you haven’t seen Mrs. Twitty lately? The last time you did, did you notice her sorrow? That should answer your question Kristin.

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:40 pm
Yes, something bad did happened. But it was an accident, it wasn’t meant to happen … as it did not happen on the beach as assumed, rather, it was in a house.

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
A substance was given to victim without knowledge. Substance served purpose … victim came to … suspect panics .. in an attempt to quiet victim, “something bad happens”

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:52 pm
Lily we are working 24 hrs to bring this to a resolution.

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:59 pm
No that’s not what it means Kristin. Premeditated requires planning. This was an accident perpetuated by a mallace act. It’s what happened after, that was premeditated …

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 10:13 pm
kristin … watch the bartender pour your drink

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:01 pm
edie … it’s a rumor… no arrests at 11

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:04 pm
New news comes to those who wait … Be patient!

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:12 pm
Tomorrow, we’re searching the waters

June 25th, 2005 at 11:18 pm
I am on the island and am involved in the matter (which I can not disclose how I am involved). I am blogging to keep you informed as this case has captured the world.

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:21 pm
Only doing my job. But thank you guys anyway.

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:25 pm
You will wake up with news tomorrow morning … can’t elaborate, so please don’t ask.

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:27 pm
It won’t happen T K.

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:30 pm
Sub: LOL thanks, but they would only make me constipated, which I don’t need at a time like this.

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:32 pm
If you need clarification or confirmation, I was the one who told in crypt that “DADDY VDS” would be arrested by simply stating “the PIMPle is about to pop”…

Maya99 Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:33 pm
I think Shock means he judge from Carasau (sp.?) is bringing the dna evidence from the Hague tomorrow, and then they will be charged t the hearing. Am I warm?
What was that moderator line?

T K Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:33 pm
nice analogy. lol

scaredsh**less Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:34 pm
goodnight everyone….hope news will await in a.m.

subdude Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:35 pm
night, scared

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:35 pm
Quite possible, however …..

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:39 pm
Let me go prepare for your morning news ….. Good night all!

subdude Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:39 pm
chimes: fascinating. Seems to me most people interested enough to stay this involved share similarities. I think that the heightened sensitivity is, in some ways, a gift to compensate for the trauma. Yin/yang type thing.

Ragalee Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:40 pm
Shock, after it is all over, will you reveal your identity and position?

subdude Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:40 pm
I think Shock is in the news biz and has confidential sources. “Just doing my job”

Ragalee Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:42 pm
Speaking of being in the news, did someone say Greta went home, left Aruba?

subdude Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:44 pm
Ragalee: Thought I heard that. Pretty telling fact.
edie: Out there?

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:44 pm
Ragalee:
No
Sub:
No


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 18, 2008, 10:52:11 PM
Ddin't I mention Tierra Del Sol not too long ago? I think I did.  :roll:

BrodieGirl on June 30th, 2005 3:47 am

Shango said,”whispered by olorum to an earthbound son”.
Olorum or Olorun had a son sent to earth and one thing he brought with him was calabash. Calabash is a fruit that grows in Aruba. There is an area called Calabas which on on the North Western part of the island about 5 minutes away from a golf course called Tierra del Sol. Shango in earlier post metioned forbidden fruit. This is as far as I have gotten but I thought it was interesting.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 18, 2008, 10:55:17 PM
I do not know if these are complete or not...this is all that I have at this time.  Don't hold me to the authenticity of these either.

SHOCKtheMOKEY Says:
June 23rd, 2005 at 10:18 am
the submarine pinged….im being watched

SHOCKtheMOKEY Says:
June 23rd, 2005 at 10:44 am
thongs are getting weird here, VERY weird. just keep your eye on noord

SHOCKtheMONKEY Says:
June 23rd, 2005 at 11:03 am
the right people are doing what needs to be done. be patient

SHOCKtheMONKEY Says:
June 23rd, 2005 at 11:11 am
major activity in noord. more than before! the island is hot today. red hot! big like the moon was lastnight. remember, its not always as it appears to be. ask csr, he knows all.

SHOCKtheMONKEY Says:
June 23rd, 2005 at 11:18 am
these boards are being watched. wording of comments are monitored and being obscure is the only way to communicate right now.

SHOCKtheMONKEY Says:
June 23rd, 2005 at 11:30 am
they have been and still are in columbia and venequela…..way big stuff going on…..way big

SHOCKtheMONKEY Says:
June 23rd, 2005 at 11:32 am
the PIMPle is about to pop

SHOCKtheMONKEY Says:
June 23rd, 2005 at 11:39 am
the boys are innocent. only witness. co and sa are key.

SHOCKtheMONKEY Says:
June 23rd, 2005 at 11:52 am
are any of you in aruba as am i? if you dont want my clues then i wont post anymore. my safety isn’t worth it…..

SHOCKtheMONKEY Says:
June 23rd, 2005 at 12:06 pm
big pappy, im not accustomed to risking my safety to give information. i thought my information would be appreciated here, i was wrong. i will leave you to your own devices. i thought u would like to know first hand whats happening here. your u.s. news never tells all. NEVER.



ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:08 pm
To my faithful believers:
This may be my last post. But I’ll tell you what’s going on. The younger VDS did it. No admission of guilt yet, but witnesses to prove. Awaiting DNA results to confirm will be soon. Two more possible arrests. DJ was the “Vessel”. Sorry for cryptic message, but my job is on the line. Still I remain true to you bloggers and the truth shall set us free. A mystery is only as mysterious as the mind allows it to be. Sometimes the truth is right in front of your face …

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:14 pm
If you’ve seen the evidence and live here, you would draw the same conclusions …

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:16 pm
could arrive with new judge… plane was delayed… may have been the reason … hand delievering the DNA results …

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
Sim, you working tonight?

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:23 pm
who’s to say there was a trojan horse? There are other forms …

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:24 pm
kristin .. i can not comment. But I told you two more arrests.

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The one with the longest legs begs …

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:29 pm
have you noticed you haven’t seen Mrs. Twitty lately? The last time you did, did you notice her sorrow? That should answer your question Kristin.

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:40 pm
Yes, something bad did happened. But it was an accident, it wasn’t meant to happen … as it did not happen on the beach as assumed, rather, it was in a house.

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
A substance was given to victim without knowledge. Substance served purpose … victim came to … suspect panics .. in an attempt to quiet victim, “something bad happens”

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:52 pm
Lily we are working 24 hrs to bring this to a resolution.

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:59 pm
No that’s not what it means Kristin. Premeditated requires planning. This was an accident perpetuated by a mallace act. It’s what happened after, that was premeditated …

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 10:13 pm
kristin … watch the bartender pour your drink

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:01 pm
edie … it’s a rumor… no arrests at 11

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:04 pm
New news comes to those who wait … Be patient!

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:12 pm
Tomorrow, we’re searching the waters

June 25th, 2005 at 11:18 pm
I am on the island and am involved in the matter (which I can not disclose how I am involved). I am blogging to keep you informed as this case has captured the world.

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:21 pm
Only doing my job. But thank you guys anyway.

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:25 pm
You will wake up with news tomorrow morning … can’t elaborate, so please don’t ask.

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:27 pm
It won’t happen T K.

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:30 pm
Sub: LOL thanks, but they would only make me constipated, which I don’t need at a time like this.

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:32 pm
If you need clarification or confirmation, I was the one who told in crypt that “DADDY VDS” would be arrested by simply stating “the PIMPle is about to pop”…

Maya99 Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:33 pm
I think Shock means he judge from Carasau (sp.?) is bringing the dna evidence from the Hague tomorrow, and then they will be charged t the hearing. Am I warm?
What was that moderator line?

T K Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:33 pm
nice analogy. lol

scaredsh**less Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:34 pm
goodnight everyone….hope news will await in a.m.

subdude Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:35 pm
night, scared

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:35 pm
Quite possible, however …..

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:39 pm
Let me go prepare for your morning news ….. Good night all!

subdude Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:39 pm
chimes: fascinating. Seems to me most people interested enough to stay this involved share similarities. I think that the heightened sensitivity is, in some ways, a gift to compensate for the trauma. Yin/yang type thing.

Ragalee Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:40 pm
Shock, after it is all over, will you reveal your identity and position?

subdude Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:40 pm
I think Shock is in the news biz and has confidential sources. “Just doing my job”

Ragalee Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:42 pm
Speaking of being in the news, did someone say Greta went home, left Aruba?

subdude Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:44 pm
Ragalee: Thought I heard that. Pretty telling fact.
edie: Out there?

ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 11:44 pm
Ragalee:
No
Sub:
No

WOW this clarified a lot now....hmmmm

papa did pop the pimple.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 18, 2008, 11:16:57 PM
To read those posts in context:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/22/transcripts-from-gretas-interview-with-natalees-friends/

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/25/natalee-holloway-saturday-june-25/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 18, 2008, 11:34:49 PM
To read those posts in context:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/22/transcripts-from-gretas-interview-with-natalees-friends/

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/25/natalee-holloway-saturday-june-25/

I swear you are reading my mind. LOL 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 18, 2008, 11:47:56 PM
To read those posts in context:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/22/transcripts-from-gretas-interview-with-natalees-friends/

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/25/natalee-holloway-saturday-june-25/

I swear you are reading my mind. LOL 

It was just that the collection as you posted them was slightly familiar, lol.

I knew exactly where to find the links. :wink2:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 04:31:24 AM
Thanks Lala's and vms......

I don't think Shock was in the news business!    ::MonkeyNoNo::

Simian worked nights?....Makes sense...on the day that Paulus was arrested he was waiting for a call.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 07:07:24 AM
JMO...I think Shango's "Arawak King" is: PM Arthur Owen

http://barbadosfreepress.wordpress.com/2007/01/05/fashion-barbados-king-arthurs-new-clothes/

Didn't investigators go early on to Bahamas?



Found this...

The Big Story Nov 22/07 TRANSCRIPT  FROM HELI@RU

The Big Story
Fox News Channel

November 22, 2007


Julia:

Well, from what I understand over $10 million have been spend in the search for answers for Natalee Holloway and that money has been spent by Aruba, by The Netherlands and they have put together an investigative team, a hardcore 28 man team on this in the last 1-1/2 years, this is from Holland. In addition to those people, they've been assisted by the FBI in Barbados, by the aruban authorities as well as the Dutch Forensic Institute.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 07:50:43 AM
Found this post of Lala's while looking for something in the old threads,


November 22, 2007, 12:37:35 PM »   
 Time for turkey...but before I go I brought this over from the Shango thread...courtesy of our very own Colombo...

All has been seen from afar
and whispered by olorum to an earthbound son

when Olorum speaks (to an EARTHBOUND son), lesser gods listen (record)
messengers (of god): ......tapes (& interpretations) are fed
Shango has looked from afar with great acuity (keenness of hearing, sight, INTELLECT)

And who has the Elder SlanderFoot contacted in Babylon?
Hidden whispers, plans for the future.

If a bird whispers an evil secret, the listener is not the sinner!
Not all messages come from a terrestrial origin.


Just a thought...the listener is not the sinner....if something was heard and could not be used per the agreement that information could only be used pertaining to drug cases....maybe the listener was called out for giving out information that could not be used.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 19, 2008, 08:50:36 AM
Lala's..any clue how far I'd have to go back to find those Shock posts you posted that day. ...LOL

Tib...now you know I'm a lost cause....the boy!

Good to see so many 'veterans' in here lately and of course new Monkey faces.


Will repost for the new ones and of course me....



Links and posts for Shango and Simian

These are the links that Lala’s posted from page 28

Simian link
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1194.0

Shango link
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=281.0


There is another poster Merian Ernest. Check it out also.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=223.0


Link to Shango’s posts from Magnolia, page 28

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.520


Links to the missing Simian posts…169-179

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.940
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.960







In the Merian Ernst posts there is a piece of morse code
.   .-..   .--.   .-   -..   .-.   .
...   ---   ---   ...   .-   -.   .   .--   -   .-.   ..-   -   ....   .--   ..   .-..   .-..   -...   .   ..-   -.   ...-   .   .-...   .   -..   .-.-.-   

This says:
ID PADRE
SOOS A NEW TRUTH WIDL BE UNVELED

There is also a reference to the number 112 in combination with telephone and pieces of the puzzle

112 is the alarm number in the Netherland Like 911 in the US

Are the merian posts to be taken seriously?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 09:05:31 AM
Lala's..any clue how far I'd have to go back to find those Shock posts you posted that day. ...LOL

Tib...now you know I'm a lost cause....the boy!

Good to see so many 'veterans' in here lately and of course new Monkey faces.


Will repost for the new ones and of course me....



Links and posts for Shango and Simian

These are the links that Lala’s posted from page 28

Simian link
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1194.0

Shango link
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=281.0


There is another poster Merian Ernest. Check it out also.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=223.0


Link to Shango’s posts from Magnolia, page 28

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.520


Links to the missing Simian posts…169-179

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.940
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.960







In the Merian Ernst posts there is a piece of morse code
.   .-..   .--.   .-   -..   .-.   .
...   ---   ---   ...   .-   -.   .   .--   -   .-.   ..-   -   ....   .--   ..   .-..   .-..   -...   .   ..-   -.   ...-   .   .-...   .   -..   .-.-.-   

This says:
ID PADRE
SOOS A NEW TRUTH WIDL BE UNVELED

There is also a reference to the number 112 in combination with telephone and pieces of the puzzle

112 is the alarm number in the Netherland Like 911 in the US

Are the merian posts to be taken seriously?


Hi JE....I think Lala's could answer better....but I 'think' Mirian and Simian are the same.
Thanks for your input...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 19, 2008, 09:35:49 AM
Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject: Who framed who?
Take a close look at the famous picture.

Deepak, Joran and Satish at C&C. Whose hand is on Satish's shoulder? Take another look.
A really good look.

It can never be the hand of any of the three.




Hmmm he has a point there someone's been edited out of the pic....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 09:41:57 AM
Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject: Who framed who?
Take a close look at the famous picture.

Deepak, Joran and Satish at C&C. Whose hand is on Satish's shoulder? Take another look.
A really good look.

It can never be the hand of any of the three.




Hmmm he has a point there someone's been edited out of the pic....


It's Freddy Arambatzis....Joran's best friend and the #1 Pimp....I can't bring the picture over and will find you the link if I find the pic.

He's the one I've always thought the 5th suspect.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 09:49:19 AM
Go down to Arubans with some possible involvement..

The Pimps

  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=203.0



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 19, 2008, 10:15:18 AM
Go down to Arubans with some possible involvement..

The Pimps

  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=203.0



Thanks i ll take a look
Had the morse code thing and the 112 being the dutch alarm number been discussed before?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 10:35:15 AM
Go down to Arubans with some possible involvement..

The Pimps

  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=203.0



Thanks i ll take a look
Had the morse code thing and the 112 being the dutch alarm number been discussed before?



Sorry...stepped away for a bit...I recall something about the morse code back before this thread was started...on the old Lively threads...I don't recall the 112...maybe some of the veterans can tell us.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 19, 2008, 10:45:31 AM
Very stupid question what is the correct way to insert a picture in a post??


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 10:55:00 AM
Very stupid question what is the correct way to insert a picture in a post??


LOL...not a stupid question....I don't know either....LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 19, 2008, 10:57:46 AM
Very stupid question what is the correct way to insert a picture in a post??


LOL...not a stupid question....I don't know either....LOL

Mum in the ost i made about the hand on the shoulder can you see a picture i tried to include one but i m not sure if it is visible to others?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 11:01:49 AM
Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject: Who framed who?
Take a close look at the famous picture.

Deepak, Joran and Satish at C&C. Whose hand is on Satish's shoulder? Take another look.
A really good look.

It can never be the hand of any of the three.




Hmmm he has a point there someone's been edited out of the pic....

This one has a pic...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 19, 2008, 11:04:18 AM
Someone else can probably explain this better but here goes...

Save the picture on your computer.
Go to www.tinypic.com.
Click the Browse button and find the picture you saved.
Click the Upload Now button.
When the upload is complete, copy the link provided under the box labeled: IMG Code for Forums & Message Boards


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 11:04:30 AM
But it doesn't now.....Help!  Where's Lala's?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 11:08:37 AM
Someone else can probably explain this better but here goes...

Save the picture on your computer.
Go to www.tinypic.com.
Click the Browse button and find the picture you saved.
Click the Upload Now button.
When the upload is complete, copy the link provided under the box labeled: IMG Code for Forums & Message Boards


Thanks vms....LOL...I just learnt how to take a screen shot the other day...google is my friend.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 19, 2008, 11:08:57 AM
Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject: Who framed who?
Take a close look at the famous picture.

Deepak, Joran and Satish at C&C. Whose hand is on Satish's shoulder? Take another look.
A really good look.

It can never be the hand of any of the three.




Hmmm he has a point there someone's been edited out of the pic....

This one has a pic...

Strange i only see it when i am logged in.
i ll try again
(http://z.about.com/d/crime/1/0/9/F/holloway.jpg)

Is there  a picture that shows who the person is to whom the hand in the lower right hand corner belongs to?

It s not Jorans because it is a persons right hand he should have been standing on the right side of the picture but has been edited out

I could not find the same complete picture on the aruban who's who page


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 19, 2008, 11:10:32 AM
Someone else can probably explain this better but here goes...

Save the picture on your computer.
Go to www.tinypic.com.
Click the Browse button and find the picture you saved.
Click the Upload Now button.
When the upload is complete, copy the link provided under the box labeled: IMG Code for Forums & Message Boards


Thx vms i think i understand lol


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 19, 2008, 11:12:27 AM
Lala's..any clue how far I'd have to go back to find those Shock posts you posted that day. ...LOL

Tib...now you know I'm a lost cause....the boy!

Good to see so many 'veterans' in here lately and of course new Monkey faces.


Will repost for the new ones and of course me....



Links and posts for Shango and Simian

These are the links that Lala’s posted from page 28

Simian link
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1194.0

Shango link
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=281.0


There is another poster Merian Ernest. Check it out also.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=223.0


Link to Shango’s posts from Magnolia, page 28

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.520


Links to the missing Simian posts…169-179

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.940
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.960







In the Merian Ernst posts there is a piece of morse code
.   .-..   .--.   .-   -..   .-.   .
...   ---   ---   ...   .-   -.   .   .--   -   .-.   ..-   -   ....   .--   ..   .-..   .-..   -...   .   ..-   -.   ...-   .   .-...   .   -..   .-.-.-   

This says:
ID PADRE
SOOS A NEW TRUTH WIDL BE UNVELED

There is also a reference to the number 112 in combination with telephone and pieces of the puzzle

112 is the alarm number in the Netherland Like 911 in the US

Are the merian posts to be taken seriously?


No more so than the Simian and Shango posts.  All of these posts may be lucky guesses or nothing at all.  You will have to decide.  Both Simian and Merian Ernst came from someone using the same email address...you decide. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 19, 2008, 11:12:55 AM
Thx vms i tried it it works...

For clarification this is the hand i mean

(http://[IMG]http://i30.tinypic.com/211uu5g.jpg)[/img]


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 19, 2008, 11:14:23 AM
(http://i25.tinypic.com/5jvbtk.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 19, 2008, 11:15:05 AM
Thx vms i tried it it works...

For clarification this is the hand i mean

(http://[IMG]http://i30.tinypic.com/211uu5g.jpg)[/img]


oops

(http://i30.tinypic.com/211uu5g.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 11:16:25 AM
Thanks Lala's...same email address...that was it.

Found this on your Carib....could be anyone of many we've heard Brazilian Columian or Venezuelean. Oh forgot Suriname.

The people
Because of Dominica's rugged area, Caribs were able to hide from European forces. Today, on the island's east coast, there is a 3,700 acre territory which was granted by Her Majesty Queen Alexandra of Britain and the British Empire in 1903. There are only 3000 Caribs remaining after many years of brutal treatment by the Spanish, French and British colonists. They elect their own chief. In July of 2003, Caribs Observed 100 Years of Territory. In July of 2004, Charles Williams was elected as Carib Chief. [1] It is said that they are the only remaining native Carib people. However, some of them are married with the local population.

There are several hundred ethnic Caribs in Trinidad, as well as a Carib population in St.Vincent-the size of which is not known. Some ethnic Carib communities remain on the South American mainland, in countries such as Venezuela, Colombia, Brazil, French Guiana, Guyana and Suriname. The sizes of these communities differ.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 19, 2008, 11:16:43 AM
Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject: Who framed who?
Take a close look at the famous picture.

Deepak, Joran and Satish at C&C. Whose hand is on Satish's shoulder? Take another look.
A really good look.

It can never be the hand of any of the three.




Hmmm he has a point there someone's been edited out of the pic....

This one has a pic...

Strange i only see it when i am logged in.
i ll try again
(http://z.about.com/d/crime/1/0/9/F/holloway.jpg)

Is there  a picture that shows who the person is to whom the hand in the lower right hand corner belongs to?

It s not Jorans because it is a persons right hand he should have been standing on the right side of the picture but has been edited out

I could not find the same complete picture on the aruban who's who page


The hand belongs to Freddy...he was cropped out at first because the MSM did not have any info that he was involved.  It wasn't until he was arrested over the underage video making that he became a focus.  There is nothing sinister about the photo...Merian Ernst must have known he had some type involvement. If you guys would like to see the whole photo I can ask Klaas to post it.  I have seen it in the NAH thread often in its unedited form.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 11:20:13 AM
That's the one thanks vms...did you see it JE on the last page?

Freddy!!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 19, 2008, 11:20:46 AM
(http://i25.tinypic.com/5jvbtk.jpg)

bump


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 19, 2008, 11:22:29 AM
Lala's..any clue how far I'd have to go back to find those Shock posts you posted that day. ...LOL

Tib...now you know I'm a lost cause....the boy!

Good to see so many 'veterans' in here lately and of course new Monkey faces.


Will repost for the new ones and of course me....



Links and posts for Shango and Simian

These are the links that Lala’s posted from page 28

Simian link
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1194.0

Shango link
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=281.0


There is another poster Merian Ernest. Check it out also.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=223.0


Link to Shango’s posts from Magnolia, page 28

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.520


Links to the missing Simian posts…169-179

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.940
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.960







In the Merian Ernst posts there is a piece of morse code
.   .-..   .--.   .-   -..   .-.   .
...   ---   ---   ...   .-   -.   .   .--   -   .-.   ..-   -   ....   .--   ..   .-..   .-..   -...   .   ..-   -.   ...-   .   .-...   .   -..   .-.-.-   

This says:
ID PADRE
SOOS A NEW TRUTH WIDL BE UNVELED

There is also a reference to the number 112 in combination with telephone and pieces of the puzzle

112 is the alarm number in the Netherland Like 911 in the US

Are the merian posts to be taken seriously?


No more so than the Simian and Shango posts.  All of these posts may be lucky guesses or nothing at all.  You will have to decide.  Both Simian and Merian Ernst came from someone using the same email address...you decide. 

You are probably right about these posts. The morse code just got me thinking that maybe someone called the alarm number that night since there is a reference to SOOS (SOS) and that maybe the records of this would clarify sometings.

Oh and srry about all these posts about the hand LOL at least i learned how to post a picture



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 19, 2008, 11:24:30 AM
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j178/dodie_photos/4Suspects.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 19, 2008, 11:25:42 AM
I give up VMS!  You are way too fast for an old woman like me!  LMAO  Thanks again.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 19, 2008, 11:27:46 AM
I give up VMS!  You are way too fast for an old woman like me!  LMAO  Thanks again.
LOL, sorry.

I bet you a dollar that I am older.  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 11:29:09 AM
I haven't hardly been anywhere around the web this morning and have already run into two posts that said that Jamie's Dad is a major Columbian drug player. Jaime says his Dad works at the Wyndham.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 19, 2008, 11:29:43 AM
I give up VMS!  You are way too fast for an old woman like me!  LMAO  Thanks again.
LOL, sorry.

I bet you a dollar that I am older.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Hey, email me. cindoal@yahoo.com.  I lost your addy in my computer crash last year.  I want to review something I know you have access to and I don't. Thanks.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 19, 2008, 11:32:41 AM
I give up VMS!  You are way too fast for an old woman like me!  LMAO  Thanks again.
LOL, sorry.

I bet you a dollar that I am older.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Hey, email me. cindoal@yahoo.com.  I lost your addy in my computer crash last year.  I want to review something I know you have access to and I don't. Thanks.

Done.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 11:36:58 AM
Here is the link vms with a comment about Darwin Dubero.

Also not sure who all the 'players' are in this 'game'.

Can anyone help, please? TIA

http://arubansecrets.blogspot.com/2005/07/dont-hate-player-hate-game.html





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 19, 2008, 11:41:44 AM
I will try to help, Mum, but I don't understand.
 You want the picture posted?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 11:47:42 AM
I will try to help, Mum, but I don't understand.
 You want the picture posted?

Actually I would just like to know who the 2 guys are between Freddy and Joran  in the pic at that link....if you know.  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 19, 2008, 11:49:57 AM
JE
Don't be sorry. There are others that may just be reading this stuff and want to know too.  No question is too trivial here.  I forget that not everyone has been here as long as I have.  Keep questioning us...it makes us think about things even more.  Oh, and did I ever say welcome...glad to have you?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 11:50:26 AM
Caps...did you mention Richard Lacle (French for key)...a poster pointed out a while back? Which richard Lacle - the money laundering one or there is another to do with the Port?  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 19, 2008, 11:51:08 AM
I will try to help, Mum, but I don't understand.
 You want the picture posted?

Actually I would just like to know who the 2 guys are between Freddy and Joran  in the pic at that link....if you know.  TIA
I believe the one next to Joran is Sander. The other one, I'm not sure...

(http://i27.tinypic.com/2zizeo3.gif)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 19, 2008, 11:52:25 AM
(http://i25.tinypic.com/5jvbtk.jpg)

bump

LALA,

on Morse Code, I read

EL PADRE (The Father)

SOO SANE  w TRUTH WILL BE UNVELIED fullstop




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 11:53:08 AM
JE
Don't be sorry. There are others that may just be reading this stuff and want to know too.  No question is too trivial here.  I forget that not everyone has been here as long as I have.  Keep questioning us...it makes us think about things even more.  Oh, and did I ever say welcome...glad to have you?

LOL...I can't even understand what Simian meant about the boy. I meant to bring those links forward on Sunday, but it got too hectic and then the thunderstorms poofed me!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 19, 2008, 11:56:38 AM
I will try to help, Mum, but I don't understand.
 You want the picture posted?

Actually I would just like to know who the 2 guys are between Freddy and Joran  in the pic at that link....if you know.  TIA

We have talked about it before in the NAH thread.  Let's post the pic in here and then I will go ask.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 11:58:34 AM
Lala's..any clue how far I'd have to go back to find those Shock posts you posted that day. ...LOL

Tib...now you know I'm a lost cause....the boy!

Good to see so many 'veterans' in here lately and of course new Monkey faces.


Will repost for the new ones and of course me....



Links and posts for Shango and Simian

These are the links that Lala’s posted from page 28

Simian link
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1194.0

Shango link
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=281.0


There is another poster Merian Ernest. Check it out also.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=223.0


Link to Shango’s posts from Magnolia, page 28

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.520


Links to the missing Simian posts…169-179

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.940
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.960







In the Merian Ernst posts there is a piece of morse code
.   .-..   .--.   .-   -..   .-.   .
...   ---   ---   ...   .-   -.   .   .--   -   .-.   ..-   -   ....   .--   ..   .-..   .-..   -...   .   ..-   -.   ...-   .   .-...   .   -..   .-.-.-   

This says:
ID PADRE
SOOS A NEW TRUTH WIDL BE UNVELED

There is also a reference to the number 112 in combination with telephone and pieces of the puzzle

112 is the alarm number in the Netherland Like 911 in the US

Are the merian posts to be taken seriously?

Caps...this is what JE got...I need them on the same page...LOL

vms...Thanks...I keep remembering all the discussion about a younger van der Straten. Not sure what to make of that about Darwin as the tickle sites are gone.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 19, 2008, 11:58:50 AM
I will try to help, Mum, but I don't understand.
 You want the picture posted?

Actually I would just like to know who the 2 guys are between Freddy and Joran  in the pic at that link....if you know.  TIA
I believe the one next to Joran is Sander. The other one, I'm not sure...

(http://i27.tinypic.com/2zizeo3.gif)

Is that a Santos in front?  Maybe not.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 12:02:36 PM
Lala's...it's back on the last page...vms posted it...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 19, 2008, 12:05:48 PM
Starting far left back row:

Koen Gottenbos
Joran
Sander Gottenbos
Not sure
Freddy Arambatzis
Jaime C

Bottom:
Not sure - but not Santos
Valentijn

Remember this photo was taken at Sasha's birthday party.  We have determined that Sasha and Freddy are related. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 12:13:15 PM
Starting far left back row:

Koen Gottenbos
Joran
Sander Gottenbos
Not sure
Freddy Arambatzis
Jaime C

Bottom:
Not sure - but not Santos
Valentijn

Remember this photo was taken at Sasha's birthday party.  We have determined that Sasha and Freddy are related. 

Thanks Klaas...I had forgotten about Sasha and Freddy...the one Not sure at the back is who I was wondering about.



Here’s both the morse code…same thing.

From Caps

EL PADRE (The Father)

SOO SANE  w TRUTH WILL BE UNVELIED fullstop

From JE

ID PADRE

SOOS A NEW TRUTH WIDL BE UNVELED


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 19, 2008, 12:20:02 PM
Starting far left back row:

Koen Gottenbos
Joran
Sander Gottenbos
Not sure
Freddy Arambatzis
Jaime C

Bottom:
Not sure - but not Santos
Valentijn

Remember this photo was taken at Sasha's birthday party.  We have determined that Sasha and Freddy are related. 

That in itself is a very amazing thing to me. Sasha and Freddy being related that is.......unless maybe Sasha is adopted.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 19, 2008, 12:26:53 PM
Starting far left back row:

Koen Gottenbos
Joran
Sander Gottenbos
Not sure
Freddy Arambatzis
Jaime C

Bottom:
Not sure - but not Santos
Valentijn

Remember this photo was taken at Sasha's birthday party.  We have determined that Sasha and Freddy are related. 

Thanks.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 19, 2008, 12:29:11 PM
Starting far left back row:

Koen Gottenbos
Joran
Sander Gottenbos
Not sure
Freddy Arambatzis
Jaime C

Bottom:
Not sure - but not Santos
Valentijn

Remember this photo was taken at Sasha's birthday party.  We have determined that Sasha and Freddy are related. 

Thanks Klaas...I had forgotten about Sasha and Freddy...the one Not sure at the back is who I was wondering about.



Here’s both the morse code…same thing.

From Caps

EL PADRE (The Father)

SOO SANE  w TRUTH WILL BE UNVELIED fullstop

From JE

ID PADRE

SOOS A NEW TRUTH WIDL BE UNVELED


The next question to ask is....what happened or was revealed shortly after that post?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 19, 2008, 12:31:52 PM
Are they cousins?  How are they related?  I have forgotten after all this time. TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on February 19, 2008, 12:32:20 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/PimpPhoto.jpg)(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/PimpJoranPhoto.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 12:35:24 PM
Judge ordered DNA samples from J2K on 7/19/2005


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on February 19, 2008, 12:35:32 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/gregtrompdj-2.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 19, 2008, 12:35:57 PM
Of course, this link identifies them differently.  Interesting, if true. http://arubansecrets.blogspot.com/2005/07/dont-hate-player-hate-game.html

Thanks VMS, do you know how accurate it is?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 12:37:52 PM
I don't remember about the relationship Lala's.

I'm wondering who the pimpettes are that Anna posted??? Thanks!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 19, 2008, 12:39:02 PM
Of course, this link identifies them differently.  Interesting, if true. http://arubansecrets.blogspot.com/2005/07/dont-hate-player-hate-game.html

Thanks VMS, do you know how accurate it is?

That site? Very inaccurate, IMO.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 12:40:54 PM
Of course, this link identifies them differently.  Interesting, if true. http://arubansecrets.blogspot.com/2005/07/dont-hate-player-hate-game.html

Thanks VMS, do you know how accurate it is?


Interesting Lala's...

We had Vocking all wrong until Sunday...he turned out to be a pastor.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 12:45:38 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/gregtrompdj-2.jpg)


Anna are you going to share, please!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 19, 2008, 12:46:00 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/PimpPhoto.jpg)(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/PimpJoranPhoto.jpg)

Thank you. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on February 19, 2008, 12:49:20 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Holloway/guyatbar.jpg)


Guy at the bar seen in what appears to be looking up at Natalee here with his group of tourists.  Name may be Tony, can't rememer, but he is with this group of people and there are several photos of him with them at webshots site.  He is not local.  Not involved in any way, in my opinion.

.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 12:51:58 PM
Just wondering how Caps and JE decoded the morse..the internet or do they know it. Just wondering what sort of people know morse code these days? Airport people?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 19, 2008, 12:58:03 PM
Of course, this link identifies them differently.  Interesting, if true. http://arubansecrets.blogspot.com/2005/07/dont-hate-player-hate-game.html

Thanks VMS, do you know how accurate it is?


Interesting Lala's...

We had Vocking all wrong until Sunday...he turned out to be a pastor.

Now you know why I asked.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 19, 2008, 12:58:58 PM
Just wondering how Caps and JE decoded the morse..the internet or do they know it. Just wondering what sort of people know morse code these days? Airport people?

http://www.onlineconversion.com/morse_code.htm

We had it decoded on the codetalker's thread, just after Merian posted it.
He loved playing games too.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 12:59:01 PM
Lala's...I can't see anything else for the day of that Merian post, but the judge ordering them to go for DNA testing. Would have to check TV archives to see if there is anything else.

The Father
Soon the truth will be unveiled!

DNA makes sense....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 19, 2008, 01:00:50 PM
Just wondering how Caps and JE decoded the morse..the internet or do they know it. Just wondering what sort of people know morse code these days? Airport people?

That particular part of Merian Ernst was decoded a long time ago...there is more Shango/Simian/Merian/Etc. on the regular case discussion threads than you will find in here...believe it or not.  I have often been accused of hijacking the threads for Shango...imagine that?   :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 01:03:09 PM
Of course, this link identifies them differently.  Interesting, if true. http://arubansecrets.blogspot.com/2005/07/dont-hate-player-hate-game.html

Thanks VMS, do you know how accurate it is?


Interesting Lala's...

We had Vocking all wrong until Sunday...he turned out to be a pastor.

Now you know why I asked.

jackb said peeps morphed into each other...I remember asking him about it once.

Thanks vms...so Mirian could have stayed at a Holiday Inn and posted in morse code.

This case is stranger than fiction.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 01:07:09 PM
Of course, this link identifies them differently.  Interesting, if true. http://arubansecrets.blogspot.com/2005/07/dont-hate-player-hate-game.html

Thanks VMS, do you know how accurate it is?

Well I find it strange that the name van der Straten is on that link.

I had just about forgotten it. I do remember a little of the discussion on the forum, though not much. I recall some saying he never even had a son!




Interesting Lala's...

We had Vocking all wrong until Sunday...he turned out to be a pastor.

Now you know why I asked.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 01:09:53 PM
Of course, this link identifies them differently.  Interesting, if true. http://arubansecrets.blogspot.com/2005/07/dont-hate-player-hate-game.html

Thanks VMS, do you know how accurate it is?

Well I find it strange that the name van der Straten is on that link.

I had just about forgotten it. I do remember a little of the discussion on the forum, though not much. I recall some saying he never even had a son!



Interesting Lala's...

We had Vocking all wrong until Sunday...he turned out to be a pastor.

Now you know why I asked.


My reply in red...sorry


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 19, 2008, 01:21:04 PM
Lala's...I can't see anything else for the day of that Merian post, but the judge ordering them to go for DNA testing. Would have to check TV archives to see if there is anything else.

The Father
Soon the truth will be unveiled!

DNA makes sense....

So where was the DNA to compare?  In the house?  In the cars? Where?  Makes you go hmmmmm, doesn't it? They didn't ask for Paulus' DNA, they were taking it from J2K.  Hmmmmmm.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 01:27:27 PM
Lala's...I can't see anything else for the day of that Merian post, but the judge ordering them to go for DNA testing. Would have to check TV archives to see if there is anything else.

The Father
Soon the truth will be unveiled!

DNA makes sense....

So where was the DNA to compare?  In the house?  In the cars? Where?  Makes you go hmmmmm, doesn't it? They didn't ask for Paulus' DNA, they were taking it from J2K.  Hmmmmmm.


They took DNA from Beth back around June 11th...to compare to what?

I wonder what date they refused and how long it took for the judge to order  it?

If it's wasn't J2K's, it would show if it was a relative of one of the suspects, from the little I've seen of CSI.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on February 19, 2008, 01:34:53 PM
Of course, this link identifies them differently.  Interesting, if true. http://arubansecrets.blogspot.com/2005/07/dont-hate-player-hate-game.html

Thanks VMS, do you know how accurate it is?

Well I find it strange that the name van der Straten is on that link.

I had just about forgotten it. I do remember a little of the discussion on the forum, though not much. I recall some saying he never even had a son!



Interesting Lala's...

We had Vocking all wrong until Sunday...he turned out to be a pastor.

Now you know why I asked.


My reply in red...sorry


I know the person who made that site and please note it has not been updated since November, 2005.  Island Hopper posted extensively at RWV and she certainly had no intent to deceive anyone.  Right from the start, Arubans we were in contact with misidentified photos right and left.  Don't know if it was intentional or what but they did.  And she abandoned the site and just never went back to correct the mislabeled photos.  Dan at RWV often removed the posts of people he banned such as Island Hopper and lots of hers are now missing from the archives of that forum but she did find a lot of information in the very beginning..

She was also handed lots of misinformation, as were we all, at the start and apparently she just moved on without going back to change anythings.

And we found the Ben (Voc)King/Alex Matthews connection as early as July, 2005.  Dan took down all the posts about that and said he wasn't going to have his blog taken over by "environmental wackos" which was apparently what he deemed the Matthews case to be about instead of human rights.  It was then she made her own blog to get that information out.

She was an excellent researcher and I wish she had stayed with her effort.  But all that is on that site is VERY old and preliminary however was very cutting edge at the time it was posted and was the best that was known.

.

.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Ree on February 19, 2008, 01:35:19 PM
Just wondering how Caps and JE decoded the morse..the internet or do they know it. Just wondering what sort of people know morse code these days? Airport people?

I believe there is still a Boy Scout Badge related to Morse code.  I can't remember is there's still a girl scount badge that includes it.  My husband learned it in the military.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 01:35:50 PM


July 17th…..Judge rules for suspects to give DNA

July 25th…..Aruban authorities dispatch a prosecutor to consult with FBI and bring in experts from the Netherlands

July 27TH. To 30th.….Drain pond near Marriott and await DNA results from the Netherlands and US


RIGHT LALA’S……..TO COMPARE WITH WHAT!


 ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 01:42:48 PM
Anna...Thanks for the info. I have seen the site before last week, but it was a while ago. I guess I always thought it was an error in labelling.

Ree...Thanks...that was what I was asking. Military people at the airport...

Sorry Lala's...I've got a bee in my bonnet about that airport.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 19, 2008, 01:53:26 PM
Just wondering how Caps and JE decoded the morse..the internet or do they know it. Just wondering what sort of people know morse code these days? Airport people?

MUM I just looked up morse code on the net and went from there. I dont know morse code lol. Probably military people do like the navy etc.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 01:55:07 PM


July 19th…..Judge rules for suspects to give DNA

July 25th…..Aruban authorities dispatch a prosecutor to consult with FBI and bring in experts from the Netherlands

July 27TH. To 30th.….Drain pond near Marriott and await DNA results from the Netherlands and US


RIGHT LALA’S……..TO COMPARE WITH WHAT!


 ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyNoNo::


edit to correct date to 19th.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 01:59:49 PM
LOL...the toothbrush...then why would he go to court to fight it if he knew his DNA wasn't on a darn toothbush...

More book bs...

July 27th

Joran went to court to appeal against the taking of the DNA sample.

Upon his return, Joran reads an article in Diario that has him quite upset, although he does not elaborate. According to Joran, Jossy Mansur publicizes “nonsense” and is only interested in obtaining an American visa.

Page 216

July 28th

Joran discusses ventilation in his jail cell.

July 29th

A lot of visitors came to see Joran as it was a Saturday. Joran also discovers that the DNA swab was disallowed and that, in any event, it was not his DNA on the Natalee’s toothpaste.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 19, 2008, 02:17:24 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/gregtrompdj-2.jpg)
Exactly!  The DJ at the 2004 birthday party was Freddy's best friend Gregory & his girlfriend Melody. He's a Bibba Lekke gang member. All these pics are from his Tickle page in 2005.
(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/GregsGirlfriendMelony.jpg)
(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/GregoryTromp-1.jpg)
EDIT - WHY WOULD YOU POST A PICTURE OF A BABY - DO YOU THINK THIS BABY IS INVOLVED?  PLEASE DON'T DO IT AGAIN
Labeled: Baby G Next pimp
(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/GTtattoo-1.jpg)
(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/DauryFrancisco6.jpg)
"A Daury"

Joran calls Freddy...Freddy shows up with "2 dawgs"...Gregory & Daury? The car seen at the racquet club?.....



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 19, 2008, 02:21:14 PM
Just wondering how Caps and JE decoded the morse..the internet or do they know it. Just wondering what sort of people know morse code these days? Airport people?

MUM I just looked up morse code on the net and went from there. I dont know morse code lol. Probably military people do like the navy etc.

Up until a year or so ago..you had to know Morse Code to get a ham radio license. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 02:25:10 PM
debra...the 2 guys ...in the pic...who are they, which is which please? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 19, 2008, 02:35:03 PM
My mistake...Thank you for editing.
I was just wanting to show how Gregory refered to his baby as the new pimp...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 19, 2008, 02:40:58 PM
Just wondering how Caps and JE decoded the morse..the internet or do they know it. Just wondering what sort of people know morse code these days? Airport people?

boy scout, brial language, DOT and DASH

The letter E = DOT
The Letter I = DOT DOT


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 19, 2008, 02:47:28 PM
debra...the 2 guys ...in the pic...who are they, which is which please? TIA


Mum,
IIRC

Gregory Tromp:
http://hi5.com/friend/10231085--Gregory--Profile-html

Daury Rodriguez:
http://www.hi5.com/friend/3664670--Daury--Profile-html



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 02:49:13 PM
My mistake...Thank you for editing.
I was just wanting to show how Gregory refered to his baby as the new pimp...


So Gregory is the DJ and the other guy is....??? TIA

Sorry I'm a little slow here especially when I'm trying to do 3 things at once.

Thanks Caps....Did you see my question about Richard Lacle?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 02:51:52 PM
debra...the 2 guys ...in the pic...who are they, which is which please? TIA


Mum,
IIRC

Gregory Tromp:
http://hi5.com/friend/10231085--Gregory--Profile-html

Daury Rodriguez:
http://www.hi5.com/friend/3664670--Daury--Profile-html



Thanks vms....is this the Daury that supposedly had nothing to do with it?
The one they tracked down already?  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 19, 2008, 02:54:54 PM
debra...the 2 guys ...in the pic...who are they, which is which please? TIA


Mum,
IIRC

Gregory Tromp:
http://hi5.com/friend/10231085--Gregory--Profile-html

Daury Rodriguez:
http://www.hi5.com/friend/3664670--Daury--Profile-html



Thanks vms....is this the Daury that supposedly had nothing to do with it?
The one they tracked down already?  TIA

Yes, nothing to do with it.  He wasn't even in Aruba at the time.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 19, 2008, 02:56:20 PM
debra...the 2 guys ...in the pic...who are they, which is which please? TIA


Mum,
IIRC

Gregory Tromp:
http://hi5.com/friend/10231085--Gregory--Profile-html

Daury Rodriguez:
http://www.hi5.com/friend/3664670--Daury--Profile-html



Thanks vms....is this the Daury that supposedly had nothing to do with it?
The one they tracked down already?  TIA

Yes, he says he has an alibi and was not in Aruba at the time. Also, Peter de Vries says Rodriguez was not the name Joran gave.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 02:58:12 PM
This one is an ISA student was questioned three times. And we have a Luis,supposed last name Betancourt.  LOL..either Columbian or Venezuelan that hangs around the beach and C&Cs with Joshua. Can't remember which is Columbian and which is Venezuelan right now.

Luis Guillermo Rodriguez


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 19, 2008, 02:58:13 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/gregtrompdj-2.jpg)
Exactly!  The DJ at the 2004 birthday party was Freddy's best friend Gregory & his girlfriend Melody. He's a Bibba Lekke gang member. All these pics are from his Tickle page in 2005.
(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/GregsGirlfriendMelony.jpg)
Gregory and girlfriend Melony
(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/GregoryTromp-1.jpg)

Labeled: Baby G Next pimp

(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/GTtattoo-1.jpg)
Gregory's tattoo
(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/DauryFrancisco6.jpg)
"A Daury" Francisco (tattoo)

Joran calls Freddy...Freddy shows up with "2 dawgs"...Gregory & Daury? The car seen at the racquet club?.....
...."Freddy needs to tell the truth"[/[/i]quote]




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on February 19, 2008, 02:59:05 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/gregtrompdj-2.jpg)
Exactly!  The DJ at the 2004 birthday party was Freddy's best friend Gregory & his girlfriend Melody. He's a Bibba Lekke gang member. All these pics are from his Tickle page in 2005.
(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/GregsGirlfriendMelony.jpg)
(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/GregoryTromp-1.jpg)
EDIT - WHY WOULD YOU POST A PICTURE OF A BABY - DO YOU THINK THIS BABY IS INVOLVED?  PLEASE DON'T DO IT AGAIN
Labeled: Baby G Next pimp
(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/GTtattoo-1.jpg)
(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/DauryFrancisco6.jpg)
"A Daury"

Joran calls Freddy...Freddy shows up with "2 dawgs"...Gregory & Daury? The car seen at the racquet club?.....


When I saved the bottom picture labeled A Daury to My computer it says DauryFrancisco6...I don't know if that means anything...  ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 19, 2008, 03:00:59 PM
Just wondering how Caps and JE decoded the morse..the internet or do they know it. Just wondering what sort of people know morse code these days? Airport people?

boy scout, brial language, DOT and DASH

The letter E = DOT
The Letter I = DOT DOT

CAPS you re right it is EL PADRE not ID PADRE as I thought


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 19, 2008, 03:06:49 PM

When I saved the bottom picture labeled A Daury to My computer it says DauryFrancisco6...I don't know if that means anything...  ::MonkeyConfused::

Maybe that someone mislabeled the picture with the wrong last name. JMO.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 19, 2008, 03:25:03 PM
Daury Rodriquez is Daury #1 with the alibi
Daury Francisco is Daury #2 (appears to be a gang member)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Debra on February 19, 2008, 03:26:33 PM
Oops...needed to post...
http://zoltanzion.blogspot.com/2008/02/daury-francisco-joran-van-der-sloots.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on February 19, 2008, 03:26:42 PM
Daury Rodriquez is Daury #1 with the alibi
Daury Francisco is Daury #2 (appears to be a gang member)
Maybe Daury Francisco is the one that Mos said they were trying to locate...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 19, 2008, 03:27:18 PM
Daury Rodriquez is Daury #1 with the alibi
Daury Francisco is Daury #2 (appears to be a gang member)

More pics of daury francisco here
http://zoltanzion.blogspot.com/2008/02/daury-francisco-joran-van-der-sloots.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 03:32:15 PM
Lala's...just a thought about how Simian knew about the phone call in the wee hours....is it possible Freddy was talking?

Joran said they roughed him up a bit, Freddy that is, he may have been pressured...nah....Freddy...tell the truth.

Just wanted you to know I'm still thinking on that phone call...someone told!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 19, 2008, 03:35:24 PM
Daury Rodriquez is Daury #1 with the alibi
Daury Francisco is Daury #2 (appears to be a gang member)
The picture you posted is of Daury Rodriguez not Daury Francisco, IMO.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 19, 2008, 03:56:56 PM
Lala's...just a thought about how Simian knew about the phone call in the wee hours....is it possible Freddy was talking?

Joran said they roughed him up a bit, Freddy that is, he may have been pressured...nah....Freddy...tell the truth.

Just wanted you to know I'm still thinking on that phone call...someone told!

I think the phone call info was the result of what was on the cell records that ALE had.  There was a 2:26 AM call placed near the Mickey D's that night.  It's in the records and it was from Joran's cell phone...the one he didn't use but walked to the Marriott to use theirs.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 19, 2008, 03:59:42 PM
Lala's...just a thought about how Simian knew about the phone call in the wee hours....is it possible Freddy was talking?

Joran said they roughed him up a bit, Freddy that is, he may have been pressured...nah....Freddy...tell the truth.

Just wanted you to know I'm still thinking on that phone call...someone told!


Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:05 pm
If you were asleep who answered your phone?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:09 pm
You can’t remember answering a phone call at 2:00 in the morning? When the next day your son was picked up?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Father is a suspect of the disappearance.



Was it in Joran's book that Freddy gets roughed up?  I am lost on that one. TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 19, 2008, 04:01:37 PM
One more thing...you think it might be Freddy that let that info out...Simian continues with this...could it have been Steve instead?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:14 pm
The Kalpoes will remain detained, because they agreed to go along with the Holiday Inn story.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:17 pm P 1178
Steve Croes is singing.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 10:35 am P 1181
Anybody wants a blessing from Saint Alibi?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 04:03:02 PM
Lala's...just a thought about how Simian knew about the phone call in the wee hours....is it possible Freddy was talking?

Joran said they roughed him up a bit, Freddy that is, he may have been pressured...nah....Freddy...tell the truth.

Just wanted you to know I'm still thinking on that phone call...someone told!

I think the phone call info was the result of what was on the cell records that ALE had.  There was a 2:26 AM call placed near the Mickey D's that night.  It's in the records and it was from Joran's cell phone...the one he didn't use but walked to the Marriott to use theirs.  :roll:

ALE would have had the records....or some of them.
What time was the 8 minute one then, do you know?

I wonder how they picked up that a phone was unaccounted for...re all the questions in the PV's? To me they were looking for a phone. They should have checked Sander's as he told them it was stolen...LOL

I wonder if they checked Val's and Anita's?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 19, 2008, 04:06:03 PM
"Mickey" D's?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 04:06:59 PM
Lala's...just a thought about how Simian knew about the phone call in the wee hours....is it possible Freddy was talking?

Joran said they roughed him up a bit, Freddy that is, he may have been pressured...nah....Freddy...tell the truth.

Just wanted you to know I'm still thinking on that phone call...someone told!


Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:05 pm
If you were asleep who answered your phone?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:09 pm
You can’t remember answering a phone call at 2:00 in the morning? When the next day your son was picked up?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Father is a suspect of the disappearance.



Was it in Joran's book that Freddy gets roughed up?  I am lost on that one. TIA


I'll find it in the morning.

Did find this one interesting as I've heard it somewhere before...wasn't natalee seen having lunch with a guy like this...

More book bs

Freddy is a light colored latino from Venezuela that only spoke papi. Joran thinks he is a nice guy


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 19, 2008, 04:09:09 PM
"Mickey" D's?


Mickey ' 's?

Not Freddy Lala's


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 19, 2008, 04:13:50 PM
"Mickey" D's?

McDonald's.  Sorry, it's our American slang for that restaurant chain.  LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 19, 2008, 04:15:44 PM
Daury Rodriquez is Daury #1 with the alibi
Daury Francisco is Daury #2 (appears to be a gang member)
The picture you posted is of Daury Rodriguez not Daury Francisco, IMO.

No, it's not.  Also, I believe that Peter DeVries and most anyone else investigating the case believe Daury was a name Joran just threw out there, that the real person is Paulus. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 19, 2008, 04:22:32 PM
Are you asking if that call was placed near Freddy's place?  I don't think so..the 2:26 AM call was placed near the McDonald's I believe. Freddy lived near Joran.  I made that assumption (which could be wrong) by looking at this.  Look under photos and maps and click on Joran walks home (A) or (B).
 
http://www.hollowaycase.com/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 19, 2008, 04:51:41 PM
Daury Rodriquez is Daury #1 with the alibi
Daury Francisco is Daury #2 (appears to be a gang member)
The picture you posted is of Daury Rodriguez not Daury Francisco, IMO.

No, it's not.  Also, I believe that Peter DeVries and most anyone else investigating the case believe Daury was a name Joran just threw out there, that the real person is Paulus. 

The first thing patrick asks after he mentions the name is: A dutch guy?
Not a logical question with a name like rodriguez or francisco


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 19, 2008, 05:13:10 PM
"Mickey" D's?

McDonald's.  Sorry, it's our American slang for that restaurant chain.  LOL

and the Simian????? the fetid mongrel????? the Frenchman???


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 19, 2008, 05:14:54 PM
LALA Looking at the Morse code, I came to remeber one other way

LALA I have an other theory and I want you to look at all these names using the International morse code technique.

I am wonder what the meaning was, but I think we are wrong in the way we decode it.

First we decode the letter and then decode the letters again using the Morse Code but with names.

The names can be English, American, Italian, German, International

Now removing the Duplicate letters and see what we left with for names.

E(Edward) L(Lucy) P(eter) A(Andrew) D(David) R(Robert) E(Edward) 
S(Sugar) O(Oliver) O(oliver) S(Sugar) A(andrew) N(Nelli) E(Edward) w(william)
T(Tommy) R(Robert) U(Uncle) T(Tommy) H(harry)
W(william) I(Isaac) L(Lucy) L(Lucy)
B(Benjamin) E(Edwad)
U(uncle) N(Nelli) V(victor) E(Edward) L(Lucy) I(Isaac) E(Edward) D(David)
fullstop


http://www.sckans.edu/~sireland/radio/code.html

CAPSLOCK


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 19, 2008, 05:15:19 PM
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 10:36 am
The boy was picked up at 23:00 on Sunday at Mickey D’s. Sneaked out later. Was on time for school. Don’t mix things up.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The boy told the Hindus that he didn’t need their help anymore. This was in the small hours.
The confrontation was brutal.  So who heeded his call? Who switched places?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 19, 2008, 05:23:11 PM
"Mickey" D's?

McDonald's.  Sorry, it's our American slang for that restaurant chain.  LOL

and the Simian????? the fetid mongrel????? the Frenchman???

OK. I am lost but Simian did not use the word McDonald's...I did. Maybe that is what is confusing me.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 19, 2008, 05:33:15 PM
This one is an ISA student was questioned three times. And we have a Luis,supposed last name Betancourt.  LOL..either Columbian or Venezuelan that hangs around the beach and C&Cs with Joshua. Can't remember which is Columbian and which is Venezuelan right now.

Luis Guillermo Rodriguez


Luis is from Columbia as I recall. The reason this stands out is because of Ingrid Betancourt. Not saying there is any connection between the two, it is just why I recall the country of origin.

http://newschomp.blogspot.com/2007/12/ingrid-betancourt-hostage-of-farcs-in.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 19, 2008, 05:33:45 PM
LALA Looking at the Morse code, I came to remeber one other way

LALA I have an other theory and I want you to look at all these names using the International morse code technique.

I am wonder what the meaning was, but I think we are wrong in the way we decode it.

First we decode the letter and then decode the letters again using the Morse Code but with names.

The names can be English, American, Italian, German, International

Now removing the Duplicate letters and see what we left with for names.

E(Edward) L(Lucy) P(eter) A(Andrew) D(David) R(Robert) E(Edward) 
S(Sugar) O(Oliver) O(oliver) S(Sugar) A(andrew) N(Nelli) E(Edward) w(william)
T(Tommy) R(Robert) U(Uncle) T(Tommy) H(harry)
W(william) I(Isaac) L(Lucy) L(Lucy)
B(Benjamin) E(Edwad)
U(uncle) N(Nelli) V(victor) E(Edward) L(Lucy) I(Isaac) E(Edward) D(David)
fullstop


http://www.sckans.edu/~sireland/radio/code.html

CAPSLOCK

Caps in the merian post, the "Lucy Isaac" "unve L I ed" in the last line is a .-... This is not a morse letter. I thought it was L at first
But L is .-.. maybe a typo on his part?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Altruist on February 19, 2008, 05:37:50 PM
This is probably nothing that can be of any help but it came to me in the last week or so:

Andre Santos, in his PV, he mentions his car being green & like a SUV type is inferred IIRC.

DK letter to Betty, alibi/BS letter references on their RIDE seeing a green SUV pulled over, think it was prior to the lighthouse.

Andre Santos refers to driving a vehicle but it wasn't his own.

Andre Santos is referenced to driving 5/30 his brother & himself to school in his father's truck.

Why wasn't Andre Santos driving around in his own vehicle?  Maybe nothing, just wanted to mention in case someone has researched & come to any conclusions of same.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on February 19, 2008, 05:40:16 PM
I will try to help, Mum, but I don't understand.
 You want the picture posted?

Actually I would just like to know who the 2 guys are between Freddy and Joran  in the pic at that link....if you know.  TIA
I believe the one next to Joran is Sander. The other one, I'm not sure...

(http://i27.tinypic.com/2zizeo3.gif)

Is that a Santos in front?  Maybe not.


Koen, Joran, Sander, I think it's Raymbert, Freddy, Jamie
Darwin Duberto, and  Val





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on February 19, 2008, 05:41:24 PM
(http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/1377/sanderandraymbertjg3.jpg)
Here is an older Sander and Raymbert (same earrings in both ears)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on February 19, 2008, 05:43:02 PM
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 10:36 am
The boy was picked up at 23:00 on Sunday at Mickey D’s. Sneaked out later. Was on time for school. Don’t mix things up.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The boy told the Hindus that he didn’t need their help anymore. This was in the small hours.
The confrontation was brutal.  So who heeded his call? Who switched places?


Freddy.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 19, 2008, 05:46:31 PM
One more thing...you think it might be Freddy that let that info out...Simian continues with this...could it have been Steve instead?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:14 pm
The Kalpoes will remain detained, because they agreed to go along with the Holiday Inn story.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:17 pm P 1178
Steve Croes is singing.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 10:35 am P 1181
Anybody wants a blessing from Saint Alibi?


What day was it Paulus was detained? was it after Steve Croes did his singing?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 19, 2008, 05:55:47 PM
One more thing...you think it might be Freddy that let that info out...Simian continues with this...could it have been Steve instead?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:14 pm
The Kalpoes will remain detained, because they agreed to go along with the Holiday Inn story.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:17 pm P 1178
Steve Croes is singing.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 10:35 am P 1181
Anybody wants a blessing from Saint Alibi?


What day was it Paulus was detained? was it after Steve Croes did his singing?

I believe it was 6/23/05 unless it was late in the day on 6/22


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 19, 2008, 06:00:57 PM
One more thing...you think it might be Freddy that let that info out...Simian continues with this...could it have been Steve instead?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:14 pm
The Kalpoes will remain detained, because they agreed to go along with the Holiday Inn story.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:17 pm P 1178
Steve Croes is singing.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 10:35 am P 1181
Anybody wants a blessing from Saint Alibi?


What day was it Paulus was detained? was it after Steve Croes did his singing?

I believe it was 6/23/05 unless it was late in the day on 6/22

Hmmm thank-you Klaas I still find that time frame and the fact that Paulus was brought in then very interesting.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 19, 2008, 06:09:31 PM
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused.
The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away.
The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms.
The gamblers knew the girl.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 19, 2008, 06:49:41 PM
Posted Jun 25, 8:41 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Natalee Holloway; Saturday June 25” | View Post
85.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
What does the music man know? He was seen. He was mentioned by the boy.

Posted Jun 25, 9:46 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Natalee Holloway; Saturday June 25” | View Post
80.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Babylonians hands are not dirty.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played


Posted Jun 24, 10:47 AM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Evening Update; Natalee Holloway” | View Post
154.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Who said the alibi played for the Van Der Sloot’s? The 5th suspect is waltzing away.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 19, 2008, 07:00:54 PM
154.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Who said the alibi played for the Van Der Sloot’s? The 5th suspect is waltzing away.

Great couple of lines.......Simian knew. I almost exclusively read Shango , so a few of Simians thoughts are new to me.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 19, 2008, 07:34:34 PM
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 12:16 pm
Jake your sarcams is typical of your upbringing. The thing is that it is just what makes the rest of the world question North American rationalism.

We are worried when people say that they won’t come, because wherever I am I always invite people to my island. It is the best advertisement.
I do have to let all of you know that bookings are up (YTD) and it is actually low-season at the moment.

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:52 am
The Simian says that The Simian only reports developments ahead of time. The Simian thinks was is going on is shameless. Playing with feelings.
Th Simian’s umbilical is buried close to the heart of the island. (wampum)

Posted Jun 25, 9:46 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Natalee Holloway; Saturday June 25” | View Post
80.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Babylonians hands are not dirty.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
Is Simian a DirtyHand too
Has the Simian played with the lions
in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes
where the innocent flies are lured?

Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals?
Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno,
not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 19, 2008, 07:46:05 PM
Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 8:21 pm
The Simian knows the Babylonians.

Posted Jun 25, 9:46 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Natalee Holloway; Saturday June 25” | View Post
80.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Babylonians hands are not dirty.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 19, 2008, 07:47:29 PM
That was the Simian preserving Babylon...trying at least


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 19, 2008, 07:59:34 PM
as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRK-CQVQevQ&feature=related


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 19, 2008, 09:38:57 PM
That was the Simian preserving Babylon...trying at least

In plain English...please...for our newbies.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 19, 2008, 11:12:46 PM
That was the Simian preserving Babylon...trying at least

In plain English...please...for our newbies.

LALA Shango is saying that the Simian must be part of the Higher Court in Den Haug. The Simian is being accused of being of the same group of these corrupted Dutch Judges.

But Shango also post somewhere that the 46th is in conflit with the US constitution with in in itself is a LAW that applied to a US citizen. I have been researching how to come up with a way to get the ICC (International Criminal Court) to convict a group Criminlas which his nation is also part of the ICC.

I do belive that this could have been a way to force the USA to sign the ICC court and by this breaking the US Constitution Apart and breaking the Nation apart. but I think the Judges plans failed they forgot the word Group.

Any one trying to do bodly harm to a Group or a Nation = ????  ok

Their is a solution that can be used and the answer is simple.

Just remember they came to Aruba as a Group and left as a Group but without one. The crime committed could have been inflicted to anyone in the group..not just Natalee... it was crime against a group and if one in the group has been hurt, it should not make a diffrent, It is a Group US Citzen (Boys and Girls) or a Nation. So the ICC in Rome should look at this. It is a group crime do not forget this.

YOu can not tried him in the USA but in ICC in rome or other ICC Nation court.


 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on February 19, 2008, 11:15:23 PM
Lala's..any clue how far I'd have to go back to find those Shock posts you posted that day. ...LOL

Tib...now you know I'm a lost cause....the boy!

Good to see so many 'veterans' in here lately and of course new Monkey faces.


Will repost for the new ones and of course me....



Links and posts for Shango and Simian

These are the links that Lala’s posted from page 28

Simian link
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1194.0

Shango link
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=281.0


There is another poster Merian Ernest. Check it out also.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=223.0


Link to Shango’s posts from Magnolia, page 28

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.520


Links to the missing Simian posts…169-179

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.940
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.960





 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

Translation for Mum : boy =  "Jacky"





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on February 19, 2008, 11:24:23 PM
Starting far left back row:

Koen Gottenbos
Joran
Sander Gottenbos
Not sure
Freddy Arambatzis
Jaime C

Bottom:
Not sure - but not Santos
Valentijn

Remember this photo was taken at Sasha's birthday party.  We have determined that Sasha and Freddy are related. 

Thanks Klaas...I had forgotten about Sasha and Freddy...the one Not sure at the back is who I was wondering about.



Here’s both the morse code…same thing.

From Caps

EL PADRE (The Father)

SOO SANE  w TRUTH WILL BE UNVELIED fullstop

From JE

ID PADRE

SOOS A NEW TRUTH WIDL BE UNVELED


The next question to ask is....what happened or was revealed shortly after that post?

Just to add more confusion :  Padre can also mean clergyman.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on February 19, 2008, 11:29:46 PM
"Mickey" D's?


Mickey ' 's?

Not Freddy Lala's

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Translating for Mum  :  Mickey "D"'s  =  Macca's


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on February 19, 2008, 11:37:16 PM
LALA Looking at the Morse code, I came to remeber one other way

LALA I have an other theory and I want you to look at all these names using the International morse code technique.

I am wonder what the meaning was, but I think we are wrong in the way we decode it.

First we decode the letter and then decode the letters again using the Morse Code but with names.

The names can be English, American, Italian, German, International

Now removing the Duplicate letters and see what we left with for names.

E(Edward) L(Lucy) P(eter) A(Andrew) D(David) R(Robert) E(Edward) 
S(Sugar) O(Oliver) O(oliver) S(Sugar) A(andrew) N(Nelli) E(Edward) w(william)
T(Tommy) R(Robert) U(Uncle) T(Tommy) H(harry)
W(william) I(Isaac) L(Lucy) L(Lucy)
B(Benjamin) E(Edwad)
U(uncle) N(Nelli) V(victor) E(Edward) L(Lucy) I(Isaac) E(Edward) D(David)
fullstop


http://www.sckans.edu/~sireland/radio/code.html

CAPSLOCK

 ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused::

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_phonetic_alphabet

.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 20, 2008, 01:39:22 AM
154.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Who said the alibi played for the Van Der Sloot’s? The 5th suspect is waltzing away.

Great couple of lines.......Simian knew. I almost exclusively read Shango , so a few of Simians thoughts are new to me.


LALA: Klaasend:

It now 2:40 am. but before zzzzz one more post.

The 5th suspect is waltzing away is not about a suspect. It is a clue about what happend and what the suspect did.

I posted a clue that Shango said about a song where the girl was put in a pond. Well this time is Simian is telling us where to look also.

The Story about the 5th whaltzing away is legendary . it is the Story of Mathilda Waltzing Away.  This story has many interpretation depending the situations. In this case, the desposing of a Body in a Creek or pond.

read this and see the clues. And it fits with my theory.


 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Once a jolly swagman camped by a billabong,
Under the shade of a coolibah tree,
And he sang as he watched and waited till his billy boiled,
"Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me?
Waltzing Matilda, Waltzing Matilda,
Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me?"
And he sang as he watched and waited till his billy boiled,
"Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me?"
Down came a jumbuck to drink at the billabong:
Up jumped the swagman and grabbed him with glee.
And he sang as he shoved that jumbuck in his tucker-bag,
"You'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me.
Waltzing Matilda, Waltzing Matilda,
You'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me."
And he sang as he shoved that jumbuck in his tucker-bag,
"You'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me."

Up rode a squatter, mounted on his thoroughbred;
Down came the troopers, one, two, three:
"Who's that jolly jumbuck you've got in your tucker-bag?
You'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me!
Waltzing Matilda, Waltzing Matilda,
You'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me.
Who's that jolly jumbuck you've got in your tucker-bag?
You'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me!"

Up jumped the swagman and sprang into the billabong;
"You'll never catch me alive!" said he;
And his ghost may be heard as you pass by that billabong,
"You'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me!
Waltzing Matilda, Waltzing Matilda,
You'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me!"
And his ghost may be heard as you pass by that billabong,
"You'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me!"


 
* swagman: an intinerant farmhand, carrying his "swag" (his blankets) rolled into a cylinder
* billabong: a creek (normally with a pronounced "oxbow" bend)
* coolibah tree: a eucalypt (gum) tree )
* waited till his billy boiled: a billy is a tin can used to heat water over a campfire to make tea
* jumbuck: sheep
* tucker-bag: bag or box used to store food
* squatter: farmer/grazier who simply found good land and took possession; some became extremely rich
* trooper: policeman or soldier on horseback
 


CAPSLOCKWIZARD




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 20, 2008, 02:33:11 AM
Caps:

another clue about what happened:

Shango:
Shango has not danced with the lions

Simian:
The 5th suspect is waltzing away

Shango:
Are insects conned into entering Venus Flytraps?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 20, 2008, 03:48:49 AM
Caps:

another clue about what happened:

Shango:
Shango has not danced with the lions

Simian:
The 5th suspect is waltzing away

Shango:
Are insects conned into entering Venus Flytraps?



Are insects conned into entering Venus Flytraps?
I have posted something abouth this allready

Telescopes bring us light from these objects that, though it left long ago, is received in our present. 
The light gives us information about color, temperature, wavelengths, magnetic fields, velocities and a few other things that were going on when the photons left the object. 

It is “tempting” to “hop aboard the boat” of this or that speculation, but boats without firm planks tend to leak.  A “firm theoretical anchor” makes a leaky boat leak even faster. 

Moral: keep the data distinct from the stories.  Collect watertight planks before setting out to sea.  The next publication could well reveal today’s Spanish Armada of blustering hype sinking under the violent onslaught of new observations.

So speculation there are a lot but use the data that we have to come up with answer. The answer is all there in plain view.

I posted this already once


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 04:00:05 AM
Lala's..any clue how far I'd have to go back to find those Shock posts you posted that day. ...LOL

Tib...now you know I'm a lost cause....the boy!

Good to see so many 'veterans' in here lately and of course new Monkey faces.


Will repost for the new ones and of course me....



Links and posts for Shango and Simian

These are the links that Lala’s posted from page 28

Simian link
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1194.0

Shango link
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=281.0


There is another poster Merian Ernest. Check it out also.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=223.0


Link to Shango’s posts from Magnolia, page 28

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.520


Links to the missing Simian posts…169-179

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.940
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.960





 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

Translation for Mum : boy =  "Jacky"






LOL....Bonzer mate.....


 ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 04:36:21 AM
Well I never thought I'd see the day.....

Simian and Waltzing Matilda in the same post....

Caps...Are you having a go at us?....LOL

The Boy from Bassendean.....not to be confused with Tib's boy....


   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INdjRCNcZj0


Time for another cuppa and to call the Flying Kangaroo... ::MonkeyWink::



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 04:50:58 AM
Sorry for the O/T...but I did find an Arambatzis in Sydney!!!!   ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on February 20, 2008, 04:53:06 AM

 ::MonkeyShocked::

Aruba and Banjo Paterson - now that really stretches the imagination.


And the bush hath friends to meet him, and their kindly voices greet him
In the murmur of the breezes and the river on its bars,
And he sees the vision splendid of the sunlit plains extended,
And at night the wond'rous glory of the everlasting stars.


Time for you to travel south again soon Mum. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on February 20, 2008, 04:56:36 AM
Sorry for the O/T...but I did find an Arambatzis in Sydney!!!!   ::MonkeyHaHa::

We do have a slightly more open immigration policy these days.
Talking of which I noticed one Monkey mention a few threads back that the van der Sloots could possibly migrate to Australia.  With their history in Aruba and our immigration policy they would not make it past the first step.

 ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 04:58:50 AM

 ::MonkeyShocked::

Aruba and Banjo Paterson - now that really stretches the imagination.


And the bush hath friends to meet him, and their kindly voices greet him
In the murmur of the breezes and the river on its bars,
And he sees the vision splendid of the sunlit plains extended,
And at night the wond'rous glory of the everlasting stars.


Time for you to travel south again soon Mum. 

G'day Tib...I guess I should stay away from youtube today....

Almost put the link for your Aussie thread as the new Shango thread, but didn't want to confuse our new friends from the Netherlands.

Confuse and Shango in the same sentence....LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 05:01:51 AM
Sorry for the O/T...but I did find an Arambatzis in Sydney!!!!   ::MonkeyHaHa::

We do have a slightly more open immigration policy these days.
Talking of which I noticed one Monkey mention a few threads back that the van der Sloots could possibly migrate to Australia.  With their history in Aruba and our immigration policy they would not make it past the first step.

 ::MonkeyWink::


LOL...I saw that....Pretty sure they wouldn't last long if they did...kangaroo court and all!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on February 20, 2008, 05:05:26 AM

Yeah - to paraphrase an old saying :

You don't have to be mad to understand Shango, but it helps.


oops - I better log out before Lalas catches up with me.   ::MonkeyTongue::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 05:11:16 AM
I have to go back and find Kermit's Raymbert....googled him last week...computer went poof a couple of days and I lost my history and can't even remember what his real name is!...

I think I've googled everyone between 15 and 30 on the island and half the people over...no wonder my computer is sick!

Have a great day Tib...need to go catch up on the other thread!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 06:30:00 AM
debra...the 2 guys ...in the pic...who are they, which is which please? TIA


Mum,
IIRC

Gregory Tromp:
http://hi5.com/friend/10231085--Gregory--Profile-html

Daury Rodriguez:
http://www.hi5.com/friend/3664670--Daury--Profile-html




Thanks again vms...I was behind yesterday and I am just now catching up. Is that our Jaime on Gregory's site?

Seems not much sticks to Jaime or Freddy....Of all the pimps Jaime has probably had the least written about him.....I posted yesterday that I had seen 2 posts that said that Jaime's Dad was a Columbian drug lord...one was from a SM poster...Jaime said in his PV that his Dad worked at the Wyndham and that he, Jaime picked him up from work at 11PM on 5/30.

I have no clue what question Jaime was asked or why he gave this answer, only know from this that he was at the Wyndham at 11PM the night the family arrived.

From SunFreak's Aruban Who's Who...He lived at Alto Vista at the time and I posted previously a quote from one of the MB students that one day early on they were searching the chapel and vicinity.

This may all be useless info, but I put it out there in case a light bulb goes on for another poster.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 06:45:07 AM
This one is an ISA student was questioned three times. And we have a Luis,supposed last name Betancourt.  LOL..either Columbian or Venezuelan that hangs around the beach and C&Cs with Joshua. Can't remember which is Columbian and which is Venezuelan right now.

Luis Guillermo Rodriguez


Luis is from Columbia as I recall. The reason this stands out is because of Ingrid Betancourt. Not saying there is any connection between the two, it is just why I recall the country of origin.

http://newschomp.blogspot.com/2007/12/ingrid-betancourt-hostage-of-farcs-in.html

BB...I was wrong about the Luis above....pics tend to confuse me...he was only questioned once IIRC

I had found that link when I searched Betancourt and IIRC could not find any in the phone book.

Because of the lies in Joran's book I was assuming that Luis and Joshua were in fact Jaime and Freddy...puts them on the beach and at C&Cs.

I will keep an open mind on this as there clearly is another Luis, maybe two, but I have always found it strange that neither Jaime or Freddy went out with J that night.

Others have posted that is why the 'something bad' happened, but I can't be completely sure that they were not there.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 07:18:19 AM
This is probably nothing that can be of any help but it came to me in the last week or so:

Andre Santos, in his PV, he mentions his car being green & like a SUV type is inferred IIRC.

DK letter to Betty, alibi/BS letter references on their RIDE seeing a green SUV pulled over, think it was prior to the lighthouse.

Andre Santos refers to driving a vehicle but it wasn't his own.

Andre Santos is referenced to driving 5/30 his brother & himself to school in his father's truck.

Why wasn't Andre Santos driving around in his own vehicle?  Maybe nothing, just wanted to mention in case someone has researched & come to any conclusions of same.


Light bulb went on for me on Sunday I think. I don't recall the letter to Betty and if I had the switch may have been flipped earlier.

This may not even be anything, but this is what I found and only put dates on interviews last night after I saw your post. Jacobs was involved with at least two interviews and I think Freddy may have been questioned around the same time at least twice...per the Discovery Time Log.

From SunFreak...Thanks again...

SANTOS, Montival da Silva – Father of Andre and Arthur Santos.  He is
the President of the Commercial Chamber Brazil Aruba.  The mission of
the CCBA is to promote the approach between governmental entities,
Brazilian and Aruban associations and entrepreneurs, aiming the
consolidation of the commercial and cultural relations between the two
nations.  Drives a green quad cab Ford Ranger, license plate number “A-
23794.” 
Played in the Texas Hold Em Tournament at the Excelsior Casino with Joran, Paulus, and Andre.  Took Elvis & Gladys Kelly to their home
in Noord after first stopping by the “Wendys.”

This from Ms Maple's thread

Quote Klaas....see link for article

Elvis Kelly and his wife Gladys were at the casino the same night
Joran and Natalee were. It's in Andre dos Santos statement.

Elvis Kelly is related to Gregorio Kelly. Gregorio Kelly was just murdered in the Netherlands. It appears it happened at a casino.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=188.

Lala's post from I think Sunday

Who is Loenardo Lopez Riveria?  Jacobs and Soemers spoke to him the
same day as Satish was interrogated and Carmen was interviewed on what
is believed to be an alibi for Freddy and Joran

This is what I found...

Questioned...I believe...6/27…7/1….8/29 ISA student

   http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/Statements_timeline.htm


From SunFreak again

CHATO   – aka Leonardo, Mexican, drives a green 4 door Ford pick-up
truck



This is Luis..also questioned by Jacobs

Luis Guillermo Rodriguez 7/22


Once again...this may all be useless information, but anyone that Jacobs interviewed I am suspicious of.

Maybe it will help someone connect some dots or solve a riddle.

I can't believe that I had already searched both Leonardo's separately and not realised that here may be a connection!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 07:25:20 AM
One more thing...you think it might be Freddy that let that info out...Simian continues with this...could it have been Steve instead?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:14 pm
The Kalpoes will remain detained, because they agreed to go along with the Holiday Inn story.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:17 pm P 1178
Steve Croes is singing.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 10:35 am P 1181
Anybody wants a blessing from Saint Alibi?


What day was it Paulus was detained? was it after Steve Croes did his singing?

I believe it was 6/23/05 unless it was late in the day on 6/22


It was 6/23/2005 and J says in his book that he was picked up at the prison when he was going for a visit, I think...LOL

The Discovery Time Log says on the blue stripe that it was 6/22/2005!!! I don't know if this is just an error, but I have to careful now when I look for anything around those dates.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 07:29:44 AM
Starting far left back row:

Koen Gottenbos
Joran
Sander Gottenbos
Not sure
Freddy Arambatzis
Jaime C

Bottom:
Not sure - but not Santos
Valentijn

Remember this photo was taken at Sasha's birthday party.  We have determined that Sasha and Freddy are related. 

Thanks Klaas...I had forgotten about Sasha and Freddy...the one Not sure at the back is who I was wondering about.



Here’s both the morse code…same thing.

From Caps

EL PADRE (The Father)

SOO SANE  w TRUTH WILL BE UNVELIED fullstop

From JE

ID PADRE

SOOS A NEW TRUTH WIDL BE UNVELED


The next question to ask is....what happened or was revealed shortly after that post?

Just to add more confusion :  Padre can also mean clergyman.


Like in a pastor.....I think we have a pic of one here somewhere!

Lala's....re the plain English....for an 'oldie' too!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 07:41:34 AM
Caps...are we still trying to decipher the code from the letters a few pages back?

I am a little lost with that and still lost with your "plain view"...I didn't understand the first time...and I'm sure it's just me...Thanks anyway Caps

If it's any consolation....I did understand 'Waltzing Matilda'...or the lyrics at least.

COLUMBO...I know you don't think this is the real key, but anytime I see Frenchman, I think of Lacle=key!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 07:49:28 AM
Lala's...I need to ask this again, in light of some posts on the Natalee thread yesterday about a missing boy.

I recall who Grande thinks is Simian and have absolutely no way of knowing how he came to this conclusion, but have wondered if it may not have been....see first paragraph.

Guess it really is not important anyway...just peaked my interest as Aruba and coincidence seem to go hand in hand....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 08:24:30 AM
Found this while looking for something else....in regards to the DNA mentioned yesterday...I have to go find the other link to check as I found this in the Dr Phil thread...check date...description and address...doesn't look like the toothbrush to me!

Writer/Initiator: Brendan F.Shea (DNA Analysis Unit 1)
Description: DNA samples compared
Source: FBI
Lab nr : 050611001KSRT
Location: Quantico,VA 22135
G€¢ Name/Title /Description: transcript of house search (van der Sloot)
Date: 15 June 2005 / 12:15
Pages: 2
File #: none
Location: Montana 19
Writerllnitiator. Rodolfo Tromp


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 08:51:37 AM
Caps...In plain view...eyes in the sky...just ran across this name...

Bigwig....Sijtsma - Curacao

Found it interesting that in the translated article I found mention of both Carib and Southern Cross...appears to be both military references and of course we all know what the other "Southern Cross" is ...


De Nederlandse antillen - Curacao - Bonaire - Saba - Sint ...- [ Translate this page ]nieuwe commadant op Curacao gestationeerd. WILLEMSTAD — Met veel ceremonieel en in aanwezigheid van een groot aantal genodigden droeg Frank Sijtsma gisteren ...
www.antillenmagazine.nl/2007_06_24_archive.html - 34k -


Why do I keep waiting for my computer to go 'poof'..... ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 09:30:02 AM
It appears the one I posted above was actually two different items....sorry for the confusion....I should have checked first...but I still don't know what it means...house search was 6/15

Name/Title: Laboratory report (DNA)
File No: 163a-bb-1426
Date: 15 June 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Brendan F.Shea (DNA Analysis Unit 1)
Description: DNA samples compared
Source: FBI
Lab nr : 050611001KSRT
Location: Quantico,VA 22135

Name/Title /Description: transcript of house search (van der Sloot)
Date: 15 June 2005 / 12:15
Pages: 2
File #: none
Location: Montana 19
Writerllnitiator. Rodolfo Tromp


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 20, 2008, 09:35:00 AM
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:34 am
That which is hidden shan’t be found in the light
Break ye the hand and the hidden comes to light.
Why have all forgotten DirtyHand, who has aided son of SlanderFoot?
He holds the key! (real key-to the poison house)

There are many circles, but each has a center.
DirtyHand holds the key to the secrets of the SlanderFoot Clan
Babylon holds the answers

All Secrets are hidden in Plain View
http://www.juvenilejusticefund.org/documents/childProstitution_summary.pdf




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 20, 2008, 09:35:38 AM
elders of "the game," not just of babylon........


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 20, 2008, 09:39:27 AM
children of the elders play in the maze

Both pimps and prostitutes generally referred to their activities as “the game.”
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 20, 2008, 09:51:37 AM
For heaven's sake folks! This entire thread is beginning to look ridiculous.  There is nothing  consistent here at all.  I am tired of saying the same thing over and over again...Simian is not cryptic...sorry...he's just not.  He spoke about what was happening and what he/she could find out about the investigation at the time.  There is not a super secret code to Simian...when he said 5th suspect he meant a person.  A person that ALE considered a suspect..since everyone that gets arrested is a suspect I guess that means all of them.  Simian did not mean a real boyfriend either...he meant a male person that Natalee was seen with at some point in the three or four days she was there.  Someone she met sitting at a table or out on the beach....this is not rocket science. 

Grande thought Simian was a member of ALE...that is consistent with what I have speculated with one caveat...I think either a member of ALE or was being fed info by a member of ALE. If anyone really cares to remain with their feet on the ground today I will elaborate...otherwise I refuse to waste my time saying it all again.  Grande thought Simian was Clyde Burke.  I don't know and frankly, at this point, I don't care anymore.  I need more coffee and maybe even a donut this morning. :roll: :roll: :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 20, 2008, 09:55:56 AM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 20, 2008, 09:56:35 AM
and so does the Simian


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 09:59:43 AM
Good Morning Lala's..please have some coffee and maybe a lamington would be nice this morning....

I think you just wrote my name in big red letters in that brand new book....




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: cubbeegirl on February 20, 2008, 10:00:23 AM
For heaven's sake folks! This entire thread is beginning to look ridiculous.  There is nothing  consistent here at all.  I am tired of saying the same thing over and over again...Simian is not cryptic...sorry...he's just not.  He spoke about what was happening and what he/she could find out about the investigation at the time.  There is not a super secret code to Simian...when he said 5th suspect he meant a person.  A person that ALE considered a suspect..since everyone that gets arrested is a suspect I guess that means all of them.  Simian did not mean a real boyfriend either...he meant a male person that Natalee was seen with at some point in the three or four days she was there.  Someone she met sitting at a table or out on the beach....this is not rocket science. 

Grande thought Simian was a member of ALE...that is consistent with what I have speculated with one caveat...I think either a member of ALE or was being fed info by a member of ALE. If anyone really cares to remain with their feet on the ground today I will elaborate...otherwise I refuse to waste my time saying it all again.  Grande thought Simian was Clyde Burke.  I don't know and frankly, at this point, I don't care anymore.  I need more coffee and maybe even a donut this morning. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Lala's I know that I don't contribute much on this thread, but I do read, research and take it all in. I am so glad that you posted this as I was starting to think that maybe I was missing something .Please don't go away as I am just getting hooked on this thread.
You go ahead and have that donut, as I feel the need for one this morning also.Think I will have to go get me a Krispy Kreme honey bun....they are my new fave....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 20, 2008, 10:08:57 AM
they walk in many circles
each has a center
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donut



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 10:10:46 AM
Good Morning Cubbee...nice to see you here...I think I need some more brain food too.

It would be a whole easier to stay on track, I think, if Aruba hadn't muddied the waters so...

COLUMBO....are you still thinking MJ? I know Lala's asked this recently and didn't see it answered. TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: cubbeegirl on February 20, 2008, 10:19:59 AM
they walk in many circles
each has a center
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donut




Alright,,,, now you made me even more hungry!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 20, 2008, 10:20:15 AM
did you re-post that rwv link 4 me?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 20, 2008, 10:21:17 AM
Whew!  I am feeling better now!  Thanks Mum for whatever it was you called it...it was delicious!  LOL

Colombo
Would you please elaborate in detail from now on when you post and not just throw out a quote from Shango and highlight it?  There are many new posters here and I fear that we are turning too many of them off by leaving it all to the imagination.  One thing I will say for Capslock...at least he attempts to explain his reasonings...whether they make any sense or not.  I think our newbies would appreciate it if you could explain a little better. 

Caps
Who do you think is Simian and Shango?  Any ideas?  What is really scary is that I am beginning to understand you now. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: cubbeegirl on February 20, 2008, 10:22:13 AM
Good Morning Cubbee...nice to see you here...I think I need some more brain food too.

It would be a whole easier to stay on track, I think, if Aruba hadn't muddied the waters so...

COLUMBO....are you still thinking MJ? I know Lala's asked this recently and didn't see it answered. TIA


Good morning Mum! I have been here for awhile now...just not saying much, taking it all in...Thanks for the welcome....

And they have muddied the waters hoping that we would not be able to see through the murkiness IMO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 20, 2008, 10:23:42 AM
they walk in many circles
each has a center
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donut




:roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 20, 2008, 10:24:54 AM
all:

see the movie Casino


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 10:29:37 AM
did you re-post that rwv link 4 me?


Yes....do you need it again, as I will have to find it!

I know you quoted it a few pages back....well maybe 20 by now....so I guess I need to go back and find your post....and then I will have the answer to my question?...LOL...well maybe!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 20, 2008, 10:31:42 AM
no need......answer to your question about what I believe is there


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 20, 2008, 10:32:05 AM
two cards-played at the same time


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 20, 2008, 10:32:33 AM
one (still) kept hidden


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 10:36:01 AM
all:

see the movie Casino

No...but this is where I get confused.

Mafia/casino...like in casinos

Drug cartels...Columbians/Venezuelans ither SA countries

Aristotle's post.....I need to bring that forward and ask JE about it

I simply can't decide....and COLUMBO...I am glad you have found a path and you have stuck with it....



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 10:38:48 AM
two cards-played at the same time


One is Steve Croes and I thought the other was Lorenzo...is he still hidden?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 20, 2008, 10:42:37 AM
no need......answer to your question about what I believe is there

Not true...just posting without explanation is why people won't read over here.  Such as....who are those singing cards?  Names please!  What is hidden?  Spit it out! A lot of people can't get videos to load so they won't watch it and they go away.  Simple explanation is best. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 20, 2008, 10:44:11 AM
two cards-played at the same time


One is Steve Croes and I thought the other was Lorenzo...is he still hidden?

I thought about 5 pages back it was Dirty Hand that was a hidden card?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 20, 2008, 10:47:20 AM
no need......answer to your question about what I believe is there

Not true...just posting without explanation is why people won't read over here.  Such as....who are those singing cards?  Names please!  What is hidden?  Spit it out! A lot of people can't get videos to load so they won't watch it and they go away.  Simple explanation is best. 


...---.-.-....      --....-..-.--..       ".-..-.-..-."


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 20, 2008, 10:48:01 AM
two cards-played at the same time


One is Steve Croes and I thought the other was Lorenzo...is he still hidden?

I thought about 5 pages back it was Dirty Hand that was a hidden card?


Shango literally says this


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: cubbeegirl on February 20, 2008, 10:48:17 AM
no need......answer to your question about what I believe is there

Not true...just posting without explanation is why people won't read over here.  Such as....who are those singing cards?  Names please!  What is hidden?  Spit it out! A lot of people can't get videos to load so they won't watch it and they go away.  Simple explanation is best. 


Ummmm.... I have to agree with Lala's here, I have just really started getting into this thread and many times just give up cause I am lost and feel as if everyone knows a secret that are teasing me with.... JMO

I know I will take alot of flaming for this post so I will just go away for awhile....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 20, 2008, 10:49:15 AM
two cards-played at the same time


One is Steve Croes and I thought the other was Lorenzo...is he still hidden?


not in here anyways.....

Jacobs: "no involvement"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 20, 2008, 10:50:41 AM
no need......answer to your question about what I believe is there

Not true...just posting without explanation is why people won't read over here.  Such as....who are those singing cards?  Names please!  What is hidden?  Spit it out! A lot of people can't get videos to load so they won't watch it and they go away.  Simple explanation is best. 


...---.-.-....      --....-..-.--..       ".-..-.-..-."


I have to apologize to anybody that understands morse code who might take offense to that......if it actually is a sentence it is purely a coincidence


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 10:53:06 AM
no need......answer to your question about what I believe is there

Not true...just posting without explanation is why people won't read over here.  Such as....who are those singing cards?  Names please!  What is hidden?  Spit it out! A lot of people can't get videos to load so they won't watch it and they go away.  Simple explanation is best. 


Ummmm.... I have to agree with Lala's here, I have just really started getting into this thread and many times just give up cause I am lost and feel as if everyone knows a secret that are teasing me with.... JMO

I know I will take alot of flaming for this post so I will just go away for awhile....


Cubbee....I am totally lost....

COLUMBO...would a person from Grenada be considered a Carib?

Is one of the SGs still a 'suspect'...TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 10:55:51 AM
two cards-played at the same time


One is Steve Croes and I thought the other was Lorenzo...is he still hidden?


not in here anyways.....

Jacobs: "no involvement"

So it is Lorenzo!

Did the Carib provide escort?  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 20, 2008, 11:01:19 AM
no need......answer to your question about what I believe is there

Not true...just posting without explanation is why people won't read over here.  Such as....who are those singing cards?  Names please!  What is hidden?  Spit it out! A lot of people can't get videos to load so they won't watch it and they go away.  Simple explanation is best. 


...---.-.-....      --....-..-.--..       ".-..-.-..-."

I don't do morse code.  Have at it and enjoy.  I am with Cubbee here.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 20, 2008, 11:15:13 AM
two cards-played at the same time


One is Steve Croes and I thought the other was Lorenzo...is he still hidden?


not in here anyways.....

Jacobs: "no involvement"

So it is Lorenzo!

Did the Carib provide escort?  TIA

DirtyHand is the link between the Arawaks and the young babylonians.....a procurer of sorts.....so, just a guess here.....but the "escort" was not being provided for Natalee?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 20, 2008, 11:19:14 AM
no need......answer to your question about what I believe is there

Not true...just posting without explanation is why people won't read over here.  Such as....who are those singing cards?  Names please!  What is hidden?  Spit it out! A lot of people can't get videos to load so they won't watch it and they go away.  Simple explanation is best. 


Ummmm.... I have to agree with Lala's here, I have just really started getting into this thread and many times just give up cause I am lost and feel as if everyone knows a secret that are teasing me with.... JMO

I know I will take alot of flaming for this post so I will just go away for awhile....


Cubbee....I am totally lost....

COLUMBO...would a person from Grenada be considered a Carib?

Is one of the SGs still a 'suspect'...TIA


no idea what this means-first thought is a cruise line?

13.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Babylonians don’t believe in any stories that include The Picaros.
The lies have to stop. Time is running out. They know it, but they trust that the dirt is enough to keep him. They think the cowboys won’t find what they were looking for. They believe that the girl has joined the Carib on a journey to Panama.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 11:35:29 AM
no need......answer to your question about what I believe is there

Not true...just posting without explanation is why people won't read over here.  Such as....who are those singing cards?  Names please!  What is hidden?  Spit it out! A lot of people can't get videos to load so they won't watch it and they go away.  Simple explanation is best. 


Ummmm.... I have to agree with Lala's here, I have just really started getting into this thread and many times just give up cause I am lost and feel as if everyone knows a secret that are teasing me with.... JMO

I know I will take alot of flaming for this post so I will just go away for awhile....


Cubbee....I am totally lost....

COLUMBO...would a person from Grenada be considered a Carib?

Is one of the SGs still a 'suspect'...TIA


no idea what this means-first thought is a cruise line?

13.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Babylonians don’t believe in any stories that include The Picaros.
The lies have to stop. Time is running out. They know it, but they trust that the dirt is enough to keep him. They think the cowboys won’t find what they were looking for. They believe that the girl has joined the Carib on a journey to Panama.


It does look like that there. But I had read it to mean the currents that would take her to Panama...I have seen this written, may have been Jossy.

Lala's posted the other day and asked 'who' was the Carib. I will find it a little later. That was why I was looking for a person to fit 'Carib'....I guess it could mean anyone from the Caribbean, but what I posted yesterday from Wiki concerning the tribe said from Brazil, Columbia, Venezuela and Suriname.

Earlier post I was thinking that one of the SGs would fit Carib, only because of what you thought a while ago.

I want to check into the other SGs that were dressed in black for the Soul Beach Festival. I wonder if they were I.S.A.S. too?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 20, 2008, 12:11:47 PM
LALA: Klaasend:

MBOX


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 20, 2008, 12:13:42 PM
Klaasend: LALA:

In MBOX LIES THE ANSWER FOR THE SHANGO AND SIMIAN.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on February 20, 2008, 02:24:30 PM


Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am

Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals?
Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno,
not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!

Shango called simian 'the 46th'.  Earlier in his posts Shango refers to the '46th' as Bifrons, one who moves dead bodies. 

Other definitions:

Demon of astrology and geometry, guards cemeteries and streams
A teacher of sciences and arts, the virtues of the gems and woods, herbs, ....

Two days after Shango calls Simian the 46th Shango makes his last post.

Just something to think about....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 20, 2008, 02:24:44 PM
For heaven's sake folks! This entire thread is beginning to look ridiculous.  There is nothing  consistent here at all.  I am tired of saying the same thing over and over again...Simian is not cryptic...sorry...he's just not.  He spoke about what was happening and what he/she could find out about the investigation at the time.  There is not a super secret code to Simian...when he said 5th suspect he meant a person.  A person that ALE considered a suspect..since everyone that gets arrested is a suspect I guess that means all of them.  Simian did not mean a real boyfriend either...he meant a male person that Natalee was seen with at some point in the three or four days she was there.  Someone she met sitting at a table or out on the beach....this is not rocket science. 

Grande thought Simian was a member of ALE...that is consistent with what I have speculated with one caveat...I think either a member of ALE or was being fed info by a member of ALE. If anyone really cares to remain with their feet on the ground today I will elaborate...otherwise I refuse to waste my time saying it all again.  Grande thought Simian was Clyde Burke.  I don't know and frankly, at this point, I don't care anymore.  I need more coffee and maybe even a donut this morning. :roll: :roll: :roll:

LOL Lala's not sure who this rant was directed at........but I am glad you feel better. Simian might be inside but he IMO has many cryptic passages. So please don't yell at us for trying.......... :smt014   :smt056   :2waver:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on February 20, 2008, 02:30:14 PM


no idea what this means-first thought is a cruise line?

13.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Babylonians don’t believe in any stories that include The Picaros.
The lies have to stop. Time is running out. They know it, but they trust that the dirt is enough to keep him. They think the cowboys won’t find what they were looking for. They believe that the girl has joined the Carib on a journey to Panama.


It does look like that there. But I had read it to mean the currents that would take her to Panama...I have seen this written, may have been Jossy.

Lala's posted the other day and asked 'who' was the Carib. I will find it a little later. That was why I was looking for a person to fit 'Carib'....I guess it could mean anyone from the Caribbean, but what I posted yesterday from Wiki concerning the tribe said from Brazil, Columbia, Venezuela and Suriname.

Earlier post I was thinking that one of the SGs would fit Carib, only because of what you thought a while ago.

I want to check into the other SGs that were dressed in black for the Soul Beach Festival. I wonder if they were I.S.A.S. too?
[/quote]

My take on this is not about the Carib being a person.  Simply that many believed she was put in the Caribbean ocean and the current was taking her out toward Panama.

But...I could be wrong.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 20, 2008, 02:38:47 PM
I agree truthseeker I have always interpreted the Carib to mean the Caribbean current.

http://tinyurl.com/26p6yj


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 03:44:30 PM
two cards-played at the same time


One is Steve Croes and I thought the other was Lorenzo...is he still hidden?


not in here anyways.....

Jacobs: "no involvement"

So it is Lorenzo!

Did the Carib provide escort?  TIA

DirtyHand is the link between the Arawaks and the young babylonians.....a procurer of sorts.....so, just a guess here.....but the "escort" was not being provided for Natalee?


Not sure....but Natalee was the escort...she was being provided for someone else?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 20, 2008, 03:44:57 PM
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
Is Simian a DirtyHand too
Has the Simian played with the lions
in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes
where the innocent flies are lured?
Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals?
Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno,
not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!
[Simian compared to the 46th]

We are worried when people say that they won’t come, because wherever I am I always invite people to my island. It is the best advertisement. (sound like A.L.E?)
I do have to let all of you know that bookings are up (YTD) and it is actually low-season at the moment.

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:52 am
The Simian says that The Simian only reports developments ahead of time. The Simian thinks was is going on is shameless. Playing with feelings.
Th Simian’s umbilical is buried close to the heart of the island. (not A.L.E. - wampum)

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:05 pm
No battle. The man on the inside will call soon (A.L.E.-source). The confrontation will last all night. The boy’s arrogance will be his downfall.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:17 am
Waiting for a call…

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:27 pm
Can’t confirm that he is detained. He has been taken in again by the authorities.
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:46 pm
Confirmed. He has been detained

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:58 pm
One of the Kalpoes might be let go. Can’t confirm.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:31 pm
The father was confronted with evidence. Can’t confirm if it’s from the cars of the house. They needed this to make him talk.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:54 pm
I can confirm they are there.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 20, 2008, 03:46:15 PM
two cards-played at the same time


One is Steve Croes and I thought the other was Lorenzo...is he still hidden?


not in here anyways.....

Jacobs: "no involvement"

So it is Lorenzo!

Did the Carib provide escort?  TIA

DirtyHand is the link between the Arawaks and the young babylonians.....a procurer of sorts.....so, just a guess here.....but the "escort" was not being provided for Natalee?


Not sure....but Natalee was the escort...she was being provided for someone else?


who provided escort after the shivas left?

DH links pimps to Arawaks (i.e. Arawak King)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 20, 2008, 03:59:31 PM
Who provided escort after the shivas left....I thought I asked that this morning....

Are you talking about Odubar...Arawak King!


LOL...lost cause!


Caps...can you share anything with us...please....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Bladerunner on February 20, 2008, 04:20:00 PM
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
Is Simian a DirtyHand too
Has the Simian played with the lions
in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes
where the innocent flies are lured?
Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals?
Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno,
not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!
[Simian compared to the 46th]

We are worried when people say that they won’t come, because wherever I am I always invite people to my island. It is the best advertisement. (sound like A.L.E?)
I do have to let all of you know that bookings are up (YTD) and it is actually low-season at the moment.

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:52 am
The Simian says that The Simian only reports developments ahead of time. The Simian thinks was is going on is shameless. Playing with feelings.
Th Simian’s umbilical is buried close to the heart of the island. (not A.L.E. - wampum)

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:05 pm
No battle. The man on the inside will call soon (A.L.E.-source). The confrontation will last all night. The boy’s arrogance will be his downfall.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:17 am
Waiting for a call…

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:27 pm
Can’t confirm that he is detained. He has been taken in again by the authorities.
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:46 pm
Confirmed. He has been detained

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:58 pm
One of the Kalpoes might be let go. Can’t confirm.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:31 pm
The father was confronted with evidence. Can’t confirm if it’s from the cars of the house. They needed this to make him talk.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:54 pm
I can confirm they are there.




Delegate of the 7th level:

Seventh Circle. This circle houses the violent. Its entry is guarded by the Minotaur, and it is divided into three rings:
Outer ring, housing the violent against people and property, who are immersed in Phlegethon, a river of boiling blood, to a level commensurate with their sins. The Centaurs, commanded by Chiron, patrol the ring. The centaur Nessus guides the poets along Phlegethon and across a ford in the river. (Canto XII)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 20, 2008, 04:42:37 PM
how 'bout the 7th floor?

the towering inferno?

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:56 pm
Shango is the god of justice
alive in many forms
he who speaks through Oxum through lightning
and himself through thunder
father of the violent dance
diviner of secrets of the seven levels of inferno
bound to truth even as it burns   (the tower-of babylon?)
so that justice may be brought.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 20, 2008, 04:43:28 PM
goes back to Loesge post


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 20, 2008, 04:44:49 PM
Who provided escort after the shivas left....I thought I asked that this morning....

Are you talking about Odubar...Arawak King!


LOL...lost cause!


Caps...can you share anything with us...please....

escort not NH's......"magic transport" belonged to someone else


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 21, 2008, 10:57:03 AM
Who provided escort after the shivas left....I thought I asked that this morning....

Are you talking about Odubar...Arawak King!


LOL...lost cause!


Caps...can you share anything with us...please....

escort not NH's......"magic transport" belonged to someone else

We have no way of knowing if the "magic transport" post by Shango was a legit post from the one and only Shango.  It was posted in another blog and without Ian's help we can not make that determination.  So it has to be viewed with skepticism...unless the real Shango would like to comment on it....on the FP...please.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 21, 2008, 11:13:46 AM
Who provided escort after the shivas left....I thought I asked that this morning....

Are you talking about Odubar...Arawak King!


LOL...lost cause!


Caps...can you share anything with us...please....

escort not NH's......"magic transport" belonged to someone else

We have no way of knowing if the "magic transport" post by Shango was a legit post from the one and only Shango.  It was posted in another blog and without Ian's help we can not make that determination.  So it has to be viewed with skepticism...unless the real Shango would like to comment on it....on the FP...please.

Good Morning....so that's where you have been....hiding out on the FP waiting on Shango!

COLUMBO...You have been very patient with me, but I am having a terrible time remembering the pieces to the puzzle.

Example....the other day you mentioned Caps deciphering a word meant which money. IIRC that was notes, but for a day and a half I could not remember. And there are quite a few you have posted, but I just can't remember. Must be an age thing!

Would you be so kind as to post a small glossary so that I may follow you a little easier, without going back through pages of posts to find what one word in the riddle is. From now on I will make a note so as not to bother you again.  TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 21, 2008, 12:07:12 PM
After all this time one would think Shango would have the guts to come into this thread and tell us the truth of the matter.   I am thinking Shango has a yellow streak running right down the middle of his back...yes, I said it...Shango is a coward.  He doesn't care what happened to Natalee..he never did...hmmmm that made me think of something.

So who is Shango and why am I even asking this again?  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 21, 2008, 12:25:02 PM
After all this time one would think Shango would have the guts to come into this thread and tell us the truth of the matter.   I am thinking Shango has a yellow streak running right down the middle of his back...yes, I said it...Shango is a coward.  He doesn't care what happened to Natalee..he never did...hmmmm that made me think of something.

So who is Shango and why am I even asking this again?  :roll:


I think Shango is scared to death of your pencils....

Would I be correct to assume that Baboon and Mono and Simian were all from the same email address, but not necessarilary the same person. Or was that just Mirian and these two are in fact Simian???

I'm sorry I know you answered about Mirian the other day, but all those pics of pimps has totally confused me.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 21, 2008, 02:35:02 PM
After all this time one would think Shango would have the guts to come into this thread and tell us the truth of the matter.   I am thinking Shango has a yellow streak running right down the middle of his back...yes, I said it...Shango is a coward.  He doesn't care what happened to Natalee..he never did...hmmmm that made me think of something.

So who is Shango and why am I even asking this again?  :roll:


LALA:

Who is Simian? Simina = the 46th = new dutch ICC project.

Shango = Defender of the USA Supreme Court.

LALA did you check MBOX


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 21, 2008, 02:55:01 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA

@Caps i believe i read a post of yours where you thought XTC DNA could be exotic dinner has anyone ever mentioned that it might mean exotic dance. The magical letters(Neon signs) of an exotic dance/ strip club? just a thought


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 21, 2008, 03:11:31 PM
After all this time one would think Shango would have the guts to come into this thread and tell us the truth of the matter.   I am thinking Shango has a yellow streak running right down the middle of his back...yes, I said it...Shango is a coward.  He doesn't care what happened to Natalee..he never did...hmmmm that made me think of something.

So who is Shango and why am I even asking this again?  :roll:


I think Shango is scared to death of your pencils....

Would I be correct to assume that Baboon and Mono and Simian were all from the same email address, but not necessarilary the same person. Or was that just Mirian and these two are in fact Simian???

I'm sorry I know you answered about Mirian the other day, but all those pics of pimps has totally confused me.

I think that would be a correct assumption at this point.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 21, 2008, 03:13:32 PM
After all this time one would think Shango would have the guts to come into this thread and tell us the truth of the matter.   I am thinking Shango has a yellow streak running right down the middle of his back...yes, I said it...Shango is a coward.  He doesn't care what happened to Natalee..he never did...hmmmm that made me think of something.

So who is Shango and why am I even asking this again?  :roll:


LALA:

Who is Simian? Simina = the 46th = new dutch ICC project.

Shango = Defender of the USA Supreme Court.

LALA did you check MBOX

Yes, I did and I read it all. Are you trying to tell me that Simian and Shango are not real posters from the front page?  Sorry, I am confused again.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 21, 2008, 03:42:34 PM
LALA:

Ask this question: How many understand the workings of the 46th and its ramification in the world?

Ask your self how would you go against the LIONS in EU. (Leave it to the Lawyer but not as ONE VS ONE  But as a GROUP VS GROUP and then the 46th make sense. and I think these two just wanted to warn us about the ramification.  Simian say " I ONLY REPORT AHEAD OF TIME (THE FUTURE)"

Joran already pass three test. twice in Aruba and now on his own turf.

Why would someone boost of dumping a body at sea or killing and it goes world wide on TV and walk away of it. This is to show you the differance of th DUtch Court. that is in the EU. Super Power vs Super Power

There is only two Supreme court in the world. and they do not see eye to eye.

 

 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 21, 2008, 03:57:20 PM
LALA:

Ask this question: How many understand the workings of the 46th and its ramification in the world?

Ask your self how would you go against the LIONS in EU. (Leave it to the Lawyer but not as ONE VS ONE  But as a GROUP VS GROUP and then the 46th make sense. and I think these two just wanted to warn us about the ramification.  Simian say " I ONLY REPORT AHEAD OF TIME (THE FUTURE)"

Joran already pass three test. twice in Aruba and now on his own turf.

Why would someone boost of dumping a body at sea or killing and it goes world wide on TV and walk away of it. This is to show you the differance of th DUtch Court. that is in the EU. Super Power vs Super Power

There is only two Supreme court in the world. and they do not see eye to eye.

 

 


:2brickwall:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 21, 2008, 04:00:25 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA

@Caps i believe i read a post of yours where you thought XTC DNA could be exotic dinner has anyone ever mentioned that it might mean exotic dance. The magical letters(Neon signs) of an exotic dance/ strip club? just a thought

The danger of the shango/simian posts i think is that you can interpret them anyway you like
i googled some things after i posted the above and found this:

http://www.worldsexarchives.com/world_sex_guide/1Aruba.html

quote from page:I also checked out the new (to me anyway) strip club in downtown Oranjestadt. It is advertised in the Aruba Today paper as Hotel Baccara. It is located a few blocks behind the Royal Plaza. Just drive up the street between the Bus Station and the Royal Plaza a few blocks and you'll see the lights from the hotel.

Now this place the hotel Baccara is on Arendstraat 37. Arendstreet is a direct side street from the street on which carlos n charlies is located. it is "One straight path to the house of Rave"

If it turns out to be a cobblestone street then "while of gold bricks the road is not paved, answers mysterious lie within" would also apply.

Now even though this seems plausible the cryptic way in which the shango/simian posts are written, can if you look hard enough, make almost anything fit.

I think that if simian or shango know anything they should come forward if they don't then maybe they are just cowards or people with an interest in throwing the investigation off track.

just my opinion


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 21, 2008, 04:03:06 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA

@Caps i believe i read a post of yours where you thought XTC DNA could be exotic dinner has anyone ever mentioned that it might mean exotic dance. The magical letters(Neon signs) of an exotic dance/ strip club? just a thought

The danger of the shango/simian posts i think is that you can interpret them anyway you like
i googled some things after i posted the above and found this:

http://www.worldsexarchives.com/world_sex_guide/1Aruba.html

quote from page:I also checked out the new (to me anyway) strip club in downtown Oranjestadt. It is advertised in the Aruba Today paper as Hotel Baccara. It is located a few blocks behind the Royal Plaza. Just drive up the street between the Bus Station and the Royal Plaza a few blocks and you'll see the lights from the hotel.

Now this place the hotel Baccara is on Arendstraat 37. Arendstreet is a direct side street from the street on which carlos n charlies is located. it is "One straight path to the house of Rave"

If it turns out to be a cobblestone street then "while of gold bricks the road is not paved, answers mysterious lie within" would also apply.

Now even though this seems plausible the cryptic way in which the shango/simian posts are written, can if you look hard enough, make almost anything fit.

I think that if simian or shango know anything they should come forward if they don't then maybe they are just cowards or people with an interest in throwing the investigation off track.

just my opinion

And Baccara of course is a card game hence the reference to cards and gamblers in the shango/simian posts


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 21, 2008, 04:10:59 PM
Thanks JE...I can't stay, but the Royal Plaza is mentioned in one of the PVs. I will see what it says in the morning, I will look at the maps in the Important Doc Thread...maybe this was the stop they made...though David Kock slipped and said bar I think.

******* would know for sure.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 21, 2008, 04:23:13 PM
Why not just ask arubagirl who Simian is. I certain that she could fill in the blanks. :wink:


Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 21, 2008, 04:28:56 PM
Why not just ask arubagirl who Simian is. I certain that she could fill in the blanks. :wink:


Fin

Welcome Finbar -

With all the information I have available to me as an Administer of this site I see absolutely nothing that ties Simian to Arubagirl. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 21, 2008, 04:34:46 PM
Why not just ask arubagirl who Simian is. I certain that she could fill in the blanks. :wink:


Fin

Welcome Finbar -

With all the information I have available to me as an Administer of this site I see absolutely nothing that ties Simian to Arubagirl. 

Finbar why the she in bold, just curious


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 21, 2008, 04:39:11 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA

@Caps i believe i read a post of yours where you thought XTC DNA could be exotic dinner has anyone ever mentioned that it might mean exotic dance. The magical letters(Neon signs) of an exotic dance/ strip club? just a thought
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA

@Caps i believe i read a post of yours where you thought XTC DNA could be exotic dinner has anyone ever mentioned that it might mean exotic dance. The magical letters(Neon signs) of an exotic dance/ strip club? just a thought

The danger of the shango/simian posts i think is that you can interpret them anyway you like
i googled some things after i posted the above and found this:

http://www.worldsexarchives.com/world_sex_guide/1Aruba.html

quote from page:I also checked out the new (to me anyway) strip club in downtown Oranjestadt. It is advertised in the Aruba Today paper as Hotel Baccara. It is located a few blocks behind the Royal Plaza. Just drive up the street between the Bus Station and the Royal Plaza a few blocks and you'll see the lights from the hotel.

Now this place the hotel Baccara is on Arendstraat 37. Arendstreet is a direct side street from the street on which carlos n charlies is located. it is "One straight path to the house of Rave"

If it turns out to be a cobblestone street then "while of gold bricks the road is not paved, answers mysterious lie within" would also apply.

Now even though this seems plausible the cryptic way in which the shango/simian posts are written, can if you look hard enough, make almost anything fit.

I think that if simian or shango know anything they should come forward if they don't then maybe they are just cowards or people with an interest in throwing the investigation off track.

just my opinion
HereTo understand this clue, you have to read it and split it apart. and then ingor some of the confusion arount the text and you will get the answer.

but neet to think...think...think on wallstreet


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 21, 2008, 04:41:51 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA

@Caps i believe i read a post of yours where you thought XTC DNA could be exotic dinner has anyone ever mentioned that it might mean exotic dance. The magical letters(Neon signs) of an exotic dance/ strip club? just a thought
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA

@Caps i believe i read a post of yours where you thought XTC DNA could be exotic dinner has anyone ever mentioned that it might mean exotic dance. The magical letters(Neon signs) of an exotic dance/ strip club? just a thought

The danger of the shango/simian posts i think is that you can interpret them anyway you like
i googled some things after i posted the above and found this:

http://www.worldsexarchives.com/world_sex_guide/1Aruba.html

quote from page:I also checked out the new (to me anyway) strip club in downtown Oranjestadt. It is advertised in the Aruba Today paper as Hotel Baccara. It is located a few blocks behind the Royal Plaza. Just drive up the street between the Bus Station and the Royal Plaza a few blocks and you'll see the lights from the hotel.

Now this place the hotel Baccara is on Arendstraat 37. Arendstreet is a direct side street from the street on which carlos n charlies is located. it is "One straight path to the house of Rave"

If it turns out to be a cobblestone street then "while of gold bricks the road is not paved, answers mysterious lie within" would also apply.

Now even though this seems plausible the cryptic way in which the shango/simian posts are written, can if you look hard enough, make almost anything fit.

I think that if simian or shango know anything they should come forward if they don't then maybe they are just cowards or people with an interest in throwing the investigation off track.

just my opinion
HereTo understand this clue, you have to read it and split it apart. and then ingor some of the confusion arount the text and you will get the answer.

but neet to think...think...think on wallstreet


Caps you confuse me do you know the answer?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 21, 2008, 04:43:07 PM
Why not just ask arubagirl who Simian is. I certain that she could fill in the blanks. :wink:


Fin

Finbar, have we met?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: martini on February 21, 2008, 04:48:02 PM
Hi Monkeys~
I have not read Shango's riddle till now~
If this post is a recent repeat please delete~
I would like to know if the key is correct~
Thanks!
Quote
  THE KEY:
*Mary=Natalee
*The Lamb=Joran
*Shivas=Kalpoe brothers
*Dirty Hand=police commissioner Van Der Straaten
*The Elder=Paulus Van Der Sloot
*His Lordship=unknown; maybe the Aruban Prime Minister
*Sumerians= maybe American government officials or Jossy Mansur, head of Diario
*Babylonians=European (Dutch) influence on Aruba
*Arawaks=native Arubans
*Arawak King=Prime Minister, or possibly the boat with the same name from the mainland that frequents Aruba.
*Olorum=supreme being
*46th Spirit=a reference to Bifrons, a spirit with the swollen features of a rotting corpse; makes people around him aware of their own mortality. Not sure what the connection is here
*Teepees=dwelling of innocent people/carefree island culture was first suggested, but I think it really means the island s businesses: casinos, hotels, etc. that would be hurt worst by a drop in tourism
*Roll=reference to doing the drug ecstasy; or tripping whether or not self induced doing X is called rolling
*Keystone=Dirty Hand=the center of corruption, which will expose this crime and other corruption
*The Lions=the truly dangerous people involved in underworld; Natalee s real killers (or those responsible for her death Sex/drug dealers.)
*The Maze=location of rave parties/ seedy underworld of the island
*Sacrifice=person or people who will take the fall if truth isn't exposed (The Lamb and shivas)
*Cowboys=Americans searching for Natalee; her family, EquuSearch, FBI, etc.

*Indians= arubans
*Loot=Natalee; some think this means hard evidence of any kind
*Wampum= money, income to Aruba; the economy
*Occam's Razor=medieval principle that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed
*Doppleganger=an invisible shadow-self possessed by every human
*Eden=truth

*cowboy gods=the real power in the U.S.: FBI, senators, et cetera                 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 21, 2008, 04:48:18 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:56 pm
Shango is  the god of justice (A Judge)
alive  in many forms
he who speaks through Oxum through lightning
and himself through thunder
father of  the violent dance
diviner of secrets of the seven levels of inferno  
bound to truth  even as it burns   (the tower-of babylon?)
so that justice may be brought.  

Read the red lines....who am I?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 21, 2008, 04:54:04 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:56 pm
Shango is  the god of justice (A Judge)
alive  in many forms
he who speaks through Oxum through lightning
and himself through thunder
father of  the violent dance
diviner of secrets of the seven levels of inferno  
bound to truth  even as it burns   (the tower-of babylon?)
so that justice may be brought.  

Read the red lines....who am I?


????????????????????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 21, 2008, 04:54:43 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:56 pm
Shango is  the god of justice (A Judge)
alive  in many forms
he who speaks through Oxum through lightning
and himself through thunder
father of  the violent dance
diviner of secrets of the seven levels of inferno  
bound to truth  even as it burns   (the tower-of babylon?)
so that justice may be brought.  

Read the red lines....who am I?


So are you saying that Shango is a judge?  Give me a hint here, please.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 21, 2008, 04:59:06 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:56 pm
Shango is  the god of justice (A Judge)
alive  in many forms
he who speaks through Oxum through lightning
and himself through thunder
father of  the violent dance
diviner of secrets of the seven levels of inferno  
bound to truth  even as it burns   (the tower-of babylon?)
so that justice may be brought.  

Read the red lines....who am I?


So are you saying that Shango is a judge?  Give me a hint here, please.

I did give you a Hint before but you mist it...

LALA:

Who is Simian? Simina = the 46th = new dutch ICC project.

Shango = Defender of the USA Supreme Court.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 21, 2008, 05:02:10 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:56 pm
Shango is  the god of justice (A Judge)
alive  in many forms
he who speaks through Oxum through lightning
and himself through thunder
father of  the violent dance
diviner of secrets of the seven levels of inferno  
bound to truth  even as it burns   (the tower-of babylon?)
so that justice may be brought.  

Read the red lines....who am I?


So are you saying that Shango is a judge?  Give me a hint here, please.

I did give you a Hint before but you mist it...

LALA:

Who is Simian? Simina = the 46th = new dutch ICC project.

Shango = Defender of the USA Supreme Court.


Caps....I don't understand.  Please just tell me.  Simian is who??  Shango is who? I don't know who the defender of the Supreme Court is?  I have no idea or I am missing your point. Sorry. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 21, 2008, 05:04:44 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:56 pm
Shango is  the god of justice (A Judge)
alive  in many forms
he who speaks through Oxum through lightning
and himself through thunder
father of  the violent dance
diviner of secrets of the seven levels of inferno  
bound to truth  even as it burns   (the tower-of babylon?)
so that justice may be brought.  

Read the red lines....who am I?


So are you saying that Shango is a judge?  Give me a hint here, please.

I did give you a Hint before but you mist it...

LALA:

Who is Simian? Simina = the 46th = new dutch ICC project.

Shango = Defender of the USA Supreme Court.


Caps....I don't understand.  Please just tell me.  Simian is who??  Shango is who? I don't know who the defender of the Supreme Court is?  I have no idea or I am missing your point. Sorry. 

Why be so mysterious about it I missed the clue too would you please fill us in on what you know?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 21, 2008, 05:05:41 PM
Why not just ask arubagirl who Simian is. I certain that she could fill in the blanks. :wink:


Fin

Finbar, have we met?


Only online.

Yes, I am the one that has Buki di Telefoon Aruba 2005.

Yes, I live upside down. lol.

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 21, 2008, 05:15:33 PM
Well, let me see here...the Chief Justice is over the Supreme Court.  Then there is the President and of course the defender could be the U.S. Constitution.  So I am confused.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 21, 2008, 05:17:10 PM
Why not just ask arubagirl who Simian is. I certain that she could fill in the blanks. :wink:


Fin

Welcome Finbar -

With all the information I have available to me as an Administer of this site I see absolutely nothing that ties Simian to Arubagirl. 

Klass,

I respect your work here. I have worked elsewhere, for countless hours, for a resolution to this nightmare.

I am not sure what methods you have to discern your line of thought, but I think if one looks at the posts between the two posters, that there are numerous links between them. Too many to ignore.

But, this is all trivia now.

I do not wish to derail the current line of investigation. The coverup and corruption need to be followed to their ends. The pressure must be focused on this and the continuing boycott.

We still have much work to be done to bring Nat home.

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 21, 2008, 05:17:22 PM
Hi Monkeys~
I have not read Shango's riddle till now~
If this post is a recent repeat please delete~
I would like to know if the key is correct~
Thanks!
Quote
  THE KEY:
*Mary=Natalee
*The Lamb=Joran
*Shivas=Kalpoe brothers
*Dirty Hand=police commissioner Van Der Straaten
*The Elder=Paulus Van Der Sloot
*His Lordship=unknown; maybe the Aruban Prime Minister
*Sumerians= maybe American government officials or Jossy Mansur, head of Diario
*Babylonians=European (Dutch) influence on Aruba
*Arawaks=native Arubans
*Arawak King=Prime Minister, or possibly the boat with the same name from the mainland that frequents Aruba.
*Olorum=supreme being
*46th Spirit=a reference to Bifrons, a spirit with the swollen features of a rotting corpse; makes people around him aware of their own mortality. Not sure what the connection is here
*Teepees=dwelling of innocent people/carefree island culture was first suggested, but I think it really means the island s businesses: casinos, hotels, etc. that would be hurt worst by a drop in tourism
*Roll=reference to doing the drug ecstasy; or tripping whether or not self induced doing X is called rolling
*Keystone=Dirty Hand=the center of corruption, which will expose this crime and other corruption
*The Lions=the truly dangerous people involved in underworld; Natalee s real killers (or those responsible for her death Sex/drug dealers.)
*The Maze=location of rave parties/ seedy underworld of the island
*Sacrifice=person or people who will take the fall if truth isn't exposed (The Lamb and shivas)
*Cowboys=Americans searching for Natalee; her family, EquuSearch, FBI, etc.

*Indians= arubans
*Loot=Natalee; some think this means hard evidence of any kind
*Wampum= money, income to Aruba; the economy
*Occam's Razor=medieval principle that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed
*Doppleganger=an invisible shadow-self possessed by every human
*Eden=truth

*cowboy gods=the real power in the U.S.: FBI, senators, et cetera                 

Thanks.  As you will soon see...no one agrees with anyone on Shango or Simian. It's a wild ride if you choose to take it. Welcome to the thread. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 21, 2008, 05:21:25 PM
Why not just ask arubagirl who Simian is. I certain that she could fill in the blanks. :wink:


Fin

Welcome Finbar -

With all the information I have available to me as an Administer of this site I see absolutely nothing that ties Simian to Arubagirl. 

Klass,

I respect your work here. I have worked elsewhere, for countless hours, for a resolution to this nightmare.

I am not sure what methods you have to discern your line of thought, but I think if one looks at the posts between the two posters, that there are numerous links between them. Too many to ignore.

But, this is all trivia now.

I do not wish to derail the current line of investigation. The coverup and corruption need to be followed to their ends. The pressure must be focused on this and the continuing boycott.

We still have much work to be done to bring Nat home.

Fin

Finbar - I can see all IP's and email addresses both in the forum and the front page.  There is absolutely nothing to tie AG to Simian, nothing.  So, you can believe what you want but I'd stake my life on it you are wrong. 

I don't want to see people wasting time with that line of thought.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 21, 2008, 05:26:37 PM
Yoo hoo!  Caps. Where did you go?  Am I even close?  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 21, 2008, 05:33:42 PM
Why not just ask arubagirl who Simian is. I certain that she could fill in the blanks. :wink:


Fin

Finbar, have we met?


Only online.

Yes, I am the one that has Buki di Telefoon Aruba 2005.

Yes, I live upside down. lol.

Fin

 :2waver:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 21, 2008, 05:37:08 PM
Why not just ask arubagirl who Simian is. I certain that she could fill in the blanks. :wink:


Fin

Welcome Finbar -

With all the information I have available to me as an Administer of this site I see absolutely nothing that ties Simian to Arubagirl. 

Klass,

I respect your work here. I have worked elsewhere, for countless hours, for a resolution to this nightmare.

I am not sure what methods you have to discern your line of thought, but I think if one looks at the posts between the two posters, that there are numerous links between them. Too many to ignore.

But, this is all trivia now.

I do not wish to derail the current line of investigation. The coverup and corruption need to be followed to their ends. The pressure must be focused on this and the continuing boycott.

We still have much work to be done to bring Nat home.

Fin

Finbar - I can see all IP's and email addresses both in the forum and the front page.  There is absolutely nothing to tie AG to Simian, nothing.  So, you can believe what you want but I'd stake my life on it you are wrong. 

I don't want to see people wasting time with that line of thought.

Heck Klaas there is more wasting of time with riddles to answer riddles , and nonsensical posts by posters who claim to know....what is one more?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 21, 2008, 05:48:36 PM
Rant mode on

My opinion on this whole discussion: There are elements of brazialian beliefs Shango Oxum etc there are elements of Dante the inferno part. Bifrons and many other legend/folklore ingredients. This lays out a grid of many possibilities and leaves it to the imagination of the reader to fill in the blanks. And blanks there are many.I just wonder if there are people that know things relevant to this case why do they not state this knowledge in plain and simple words. This is not about how litterate anyone is or about how much they know of legends and folklore. This is about truth.
Maybe i am too thick to understand all that is being discussed here but i believe that if there are people like Shango, Simian or whatever their names are that know something and that they should come forward and say what they know.

THIS IS NOT A GAME.

rant mode off


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 21, 2008, 05:49:05 PM
Yoo hoo!  Caps. Where did you go?  Am I even close?  :roll:


LALA: MBOX


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 21, 2008, 06:14:33 PM
Rant mode on

My opinion on this whole discussion: There are elements of brazialian beliefs Shango Oxum etc there are elements of Dante the inferno part. Bifrons and many other legend/folklore ingredients. This lays out a grid of many possibilities and leaves it to the imagination of the reader to fill in the blanks. And blanks there are many.I just wonder if there are people that know things relevant to this case why do they not state this knowledge in plain and simple words. This is not about how litterate anyone is or about how much they know of legends and folklore. This is about truth.
Maybe i am too thick to understand all that is being discussed here but i believe that if there are people like Shango, Simian or whatever their names are that know something and that they should come forward and say what they know.

THIS IS NOT A GAME.

rant mode off

I agree JE no need to rant in my direction. I have been around for awhile......(>5000 posts check it out) not saying I know all. Just hate to see anyone new shot down on their first post. I also agree that Shango and Simian tried to convey, each in their own way information which we(collectively) have tried to understand. Some relatively new posters have arrived with an understanding of these posts, yet from what I read their posts are as cryptic or more so than what Shango and Simian
wrote almost 3 years ago. Why?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: martini on February 21, 2008, 06:18:57 PM
I ran my search engines on a boat named "King Arawak" and what do I find but a boat that sails all over the world, the skippers name is Martini. That makes me a scared monkey for sure. ::MonkeyShocked::
http://www.pesaro.com/lega/arrivo06.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 21, 2008, 06:26:05 PM
JE: I placed "she" in bold type because everyone(here and elsewhere kept repeating "he").

Even Simian referred to itself as "he".

"...have even taken girls there myself." Area where people park on dates. Could mean that the person just drove there with girlfriends(maybe to take photos to put on a blog). Does not mean the person is a male.

"...all this playing with emotions...." A male would never say this.

Simian knew someone in ALE that fed "it" information. AG has a cousin that is ALE.

The list goes on and on....


Bleach: Right back at cha. I am also concerned for the welfare of all penguins. I see some other names that I recognize from somewhere else. :wink:

Klaas: So, one person with two IP's and two email addys has to be two people?

Besides, from what I was told by those that explicitly understand Internet Protocol, that using it as a means to trace someone is useless for several reasons that you should already know.

I do agree that this avenue needs no further exploration.

We should focus on the boycott, corruption and coverup.

All My Best,
Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 21, 2008, 06:32:12 PM
Finbar & Bleachedblack -

Do you seriously think I only look at IP's and email addys?  I've read everything that has been posted about AG and Simian and others.  I have done my own research.

Like I said, I'm not telling you what to believe I've simply saying that I will stake my life on it that AG is not Simian.

I believe arguing the point is very unproductive at this stage of the game.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MsVada on February 21, 2008, 07:07:59 PM
JE: I placed "she" in bold type because everyone(here and elsewhere kept repeating "he").

Even Simian referred to itself as "he".

"...have even taken girls there myself." Area where people park on dates. Could mean that the person just drove there with girlfriends(maybe to take photos to put on a blog). Does not mean the person is a male.

"...all this playing with emotions...." A male would never say this.

Simian knew someone in ALE that fed "it" information. AG has a cousin that is ALE.

The list goes on and on....


Bleach: Right back at cha. I am also concerned for the welfare of all penguins. I see some other names that I recognize from somewhere else. :wink:

Klaas: So, one person with two IP's and two email addys has to be two people?

Besides, from what I was told by those that explicitly understand Internet Protocol, that using it as a means to trace someone is useless for several reasons that you should already know.

I do agree that this avenue needs no further exploration.

We should focus on the boycott, corruption and coverup.

All My Best,
Fin

Finbar;

What a pleasant surprise to see you are still around.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 21, 2008, 07:15:15 PM
I ran my search engines on a boat named "King Arawak" and what do I find but a boat that sails all over the world, the skippers name is Martini. That makes me a scared monkey for sure. ::MonkeyShocked::
http://www.pesaro.com/lega/arrivo06.htm


Maybe you have a doppleganger too. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 21, 2008, 07:43:52 PM

Finbar;

What a pleasant surprise to see you are still around.

Ms,

I prefer your old avatar. Not all birdies fly. lol.

Whaddya think about PVSD's witness statement that he asked the night manager which cameras were working? He was told only the one behind the check in desk. I think this is the alibi/lie that J2K used later on. They got that lie form PVDS. Not sure how that lie fell apart(J2K changed stories, 2 security guards, etc).

All My Best,
Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 21, 2008, 07:55:10 PM
Who provided escort after the shivas left....I thought I asked that this morning....

Are you talking about Odubar...Arawak King!


LOL...lost cause!


Caps...can you share anything with us...please....

escort not NH's......"magic transport" belonged to someone else

We have no way of knowing if the "magic transport" post by Shango was a legit post from the one and only Shango.  It was posted in another blog and without Ian's help we can not make that determination.  So it has to be viewed with skepticism...unless the real Shango would like to comment on it....on the FP...please.

Good Morning....so that's where you have been....hiding out on the FP waiting on Shango!

COLUMBO...You have been very patient with me, but I am having a terrible time remembering the pieces to the puzzle.

Example....the other day you mentioned Caps deciphering a word meant which money. IIRC that was notes, but for a day and a half I could not remember. And there are quite a few you have posted, but I just can't remember. Must be an age thing!

Would you be so kind as to post a small glossary so that I may follow you a little easier, without going back through pages of posts to find what one word in the riddle is. From now on I will make a note so as not to bother you again.  TIA

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damage he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away.
The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
Who knows what song the elder will sing
 
(what song??)
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl (???)
the arawaks new the girl (???)
and the babylonians still know the girl  (???)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Why did the girl owe money?

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:36 pm
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew the girl.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:37 pm
How can so many gamblers be wrong about the girl (lost bet?)? This is unbelievable.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:41 pm
One straight path (to the maze)
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks (ca$ino)
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:46 pm
Shango said the key to the Hague did not exist
that door to eden remains closed
until the house with the path (to the maze)
But not of gold (you won't win)
is entered

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
Windows looking onto (from above?) Babylon are being opened by the ThreadSurfers

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation
meet, under cover of delusion.
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.
Tell the cowboys!

The babylonian and the shivas did not build castles in the sand
they lost to the lions


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MsVada on February 21, 2008, 10:11:16 PM
Fin

I  liked that avatar too, but can't use it here ::MonkeyHaHa::

I agree about PVDS and the cameras, its his lie,he is up to his butt in this.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Chata on February 21, 2008, 11:46:38 PM
Rant mode on

My opinion on this whole discussion:....................................................................

THIS IS NOT A GAME.

rant mode off

I agree JE no need to rant in my direction. I have been around for awhile......(>5000 posts check it out) not saying I know all. Just hate to see anyone new shot down on their first post. I also agree that Shango and Simian tried to convey, each in their own way information which we(collectively) have tried to understand. Some relatively new posters have arrived with an understanding of these posts, yet from what I read their posts are as cryptic or more so than what Shango and Simian
wrote almost 3 years ago. Why?

Someone was probably getting too close to the truth, or maybe hit on it.  So ..... divert attention.  MO.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 22, 2008, 03:50:50 AM
Rant mode on

My opinion on this whole discussion: There are elements of brazialian beliefs Shango Oxum etc there are elements of Dante the inferno part. Bifrons and many other legend/folklore ingredients. This lays out a grid of many possibilities and leaves it to the imagination of the reader to fill in the blanks. And blanks there are many.I just wonder if there are people that know things relevant to this case why do they not state this knowledge in plain and simple words. This is not about how litterate anyone is or about how much they know of legends and folklore. This is about truth.
Maybe i am too thick to understand all that is being discussed here but i believe that if there are people like Shango, Simian or whatever their names are that know something and that they should come forward and say what they know.

THIS IS NOT A GAME.

rant mode off

I agree JE no need to rant in my direction. I have been around for awhile......(>5000 posts check it out) not saying I know all. Just hate to see anyone new shot down on their first post. I also agree that Shango and Simian tried to convey, each in their own way information which we(collectively) have tried to understand. Some relatively new posters have arrived with an understanding of these posts, yet from what I read their posts are as cryptic or more so than what Shango and Simian
wrote almost 3 years ago. Why?

Bleached it was not a rant directed at anyone in particular i am sorry if it came across that way.
Finbar thanks for your explanation


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 22, 2008, 08:15:09 AM
FREDDY – Is he the 5th. Suspect?

COLUMBO…please take another look at Freddy! Remember Marianne Croes said he was detained  since 6/9/2005 and Jossy said he was detained early on and the media was not informed. He was TOLD it was because he provided a false alibi for Joran. (Nadira said big people lie)

Freddy questioned 6/17/2005 and next on 6/28/2005
Karen 6/23/2005:Carmen 6/28/2005
Karen is interviewed at 1.55PM on 6/23/2005…
Joran refused to give a statement in the morningof 6/24 until his Dad is released.
Joran then comes back in the evening and the talk is all about Karen.(There are two statements at the link below)
Can anyone tell me if the picture of a grey car at the back of Freddy’s house is a Toyota.(see Annie Todd witness below)  Aruban Who’s Who…houses show a grey car
Deepak’s is a Honda.
Maybe Freddy answered the phone…..
For some reason after Lorenzo is  questioned on 6/28/2005, Freddy doesn’t appear as a suspect again until August 2005

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/police_documents/joran624.htm

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/police_documents/pvds623.htm


To your question whether I picked up Joran on the 30th of May 2005, in the early morning hours, I can state the following. I have previously stated that I had picked up Joran on Sunday May 29th at approximately 23.00 hours near Mc Donalds. Subsequently I woke up at that Monday morning at approximately 05.45 hours. In the hours between I had gone to sleep and I did not hear Joran leaving or hear him return home. 05.45 hours is the normal time for the alarm to go off and I wake up. The children I wake up at approximately 06.00 hours. I awakened Valentijn, Sebastian and Joran.

Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
If you were asleep who answered your phone?
Posted Jun 23, 3:05 PM

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
You can’t remember answering a phone call at 2:00 in the morning? When the next day your son was picked up?
Posted Jun 23, 3:09 PM


Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Anybody wants a blessing from Saint Alibi?
Posted Jun 24, 10:35 AM

Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The 5th suspect. Does anyone remember what I said?
Posted Jun 24, 10:43 AM

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Who said the alibi played for the Van Der Sloot’s? The 5th suspect is waltzing away.
Posted Jun 24, 10:45 AM



Name: Karen Martina
Date: 23 June 2005113:55
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs / Juan Boezem
Description: witness statement by a friend of Van der Sloot and Arrambatzis

Name: Carmen Aurora Jacopucci
Date: 28 June 2005 / 15:55
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs /Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement by a fried of Van der Sloot and Araambatzis

Name: Freddy Alexander Zedan Arambatzis
Date:28 June 2005 / 14:25
Pages: 11
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Kelly & Haydee Nadal
Description: witness statement

Name: Lorenzo Van Rijn
Date: 28 June 2005 / 17:00
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Giovanni Heyliger
Description: witness statement

Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 1
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness pointing out an area of interest
 
Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness statement about a gray Toyota

Per Joran’s book

Page 126, Deepak's June 14 (?) statement.
On Friday June 3 I went to work again from 9 am till 4 pm.

Snipped…
We stayed there till around 10 pm. When Satish and me went to the car
Joran and Freddy walked with us. We stayed and talked briefly. In this
conversation we had spoken again about the sport shoes of Joran, how we would arrange that. Freddy had already proposed to buy Joran new ones.
He had asked Joran if he had arranged that.
Joran then said: Imagine
someone has murdered and buried her, then they will never find her and they will always be after us. After that we went home.

The PV continues:

Page 160

You are informing me that Freddy has stated that I told him the first
story on May 30th 2005 in the afternoon. In response to your question if that is true I answer you that this could be true. You are informing me that
Freddy is stating that I told him Natalee went unconscious several times on the way to the beach of the Marriott Hotel. That she at a certain moment did not regain consciousness and that we have left her on the beach. I don't know what to answer to this, because according to me, I did not tell the story to Freddy this way.

That Freddy has stated that we did not know what to do when she did not
recover and that we then left her on the beach and that I left my sport
shoes behind, that is not correct.
This did not happen this way. I have
left my sport shoes at the Marriott beach. I think Freddy did not correctly
understand what I told him.






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: cubbeegirl on February 22, 2008, 08:18:44 AM
Rant mode on

My opinion on this whole discussion: There are elements of brazialian beliefs Shango Oxum etc there are elements of Dante the inferno part. Bifrons and many other legend/folklore ingredients. This lays out a grid of many possibilities and leaves it to the imagination of the reader to fill in the blanks. And blanks there are many.I just wonder if there are people that know things relevant to this case why do they not state this knowledge in plain and simple words. This is not about how litterate anyone is or about how much they know of legends and folklore. This is about truth.
Maybe i am too thick to understand all that is being discussed here but i believe that if there are people like Shango, Simian or whatever their names are that know something and that they should come forward and say what they know.

THIS IS NOT A GAME.

rant mode off

I agree JE no need to rant in my direction. I have been around for awhile......(>5000 posts check it out) not saying I know all. Just hate to see anyone new shot down on their first post. I also agree that Shango and Simian tried to convey, each in their own way information which we(collectively) have tried to understand. Some relatively new posters have arrived with an understanding of these posts, yet from what I read their posts are as cryptic or more so than what Shango and Simian
wrote almost 3 years ago. Why?

Bleached it was not a rant directed at anyone in particular i am sorry if it came across that way.
Finbar thanks for your explanation



Some relatively new posters have arrived with an understanding of these posts, yet from what I read their posts are as cryptic or more so than what Shango and Simian
wrote almost 3 years ago. Why?


Bleached.... I totally agree with you. I have been gone for awhile due to a puter crash and other life events that have prevented me from being here.Upon returning it was very obvious to me....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 22, 2008, 08:36:24 AM
Good morning Cubbee...The only part that I can see a little clearly on is the 5th. suspect.

I have come to believe this is Freddy, thought Columbo thinks otherwise...LOL

I keep trying to find 'real info' to support my case, maybe this is the wrong aproach...I don't know.

I do think Simian knew things....Shango....he confuses me....though Lala's keeps saying it's not that difficult.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: cubbeegirl on February 22, 2008, 08:54:26 AM
Good morning Cubbee...The only part that I can see a little clearly on is the 5th. suspect.

I have come to believe this is Freddy, thought Columbo thinks otherwise...LOL

I keep trying to find 'real info' to support my case, maybe this is the wrong aproach...I don't know.

I do think Simian knew things....Shango....he confuses me....though Lala's keeps saying it's not that difficult.




I agree Mum... Simian knew things....Shango tends to confuse me to, as I suck at riddles ,crossword puzzles and the like....I am trying though!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 22, 2008, 10:07:25 AM
Good morning Cubbee...The only part that I can see a little clearly on is the 5th. suspect.

I have come to believe this is Freddy, thought Columbo thinks otherwise...LOL

I keep trying to find 'real info' to support my case, maybe this is the wrong aproach...I don't know.

I do think Simian knew things....Shango....he confuses me....though Lala's keeps saying it's not that difficult.




I agree Mum... Simian knew things....Shango tends to confuse me to, as I suck at riddles ,crossword puzzles and the like....I am trying though!



Sometimes this helps. :2brickwall:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 22, 2008, 10:59:41 AM
Let’s assume that Simian is in fact ALE. Then he would know who the suspects actually are. Since we haven’t done a list in a while here’s mine.

1.   Guido…..Asked permission on 6/7/2005 to leave for Holland. Would a witness need to ask?
2.   Joran

3.   Deepak

4.   Satish

5.   Freddy….according to Marianne Croes detained on 6/9/2005


Another interesting note ….Deepak was not questioned one time while Paulus was detained.

                                        Paul VDS Statement 6/23/05
                                      Police Car Tape Transcript 6/24/05
                                            Joran Statements 6/24/05
                                             Satish Statement 6/24/05
                                           Paul VDS Statement 6/25/05
                                            Deepak Statement 6/29/05

I put the Police car transcript in the statements to show where it fits, and in his book Joran said that Deepak and Satish were taped. Here is where he was interrogated on 6/22/2005 and the car tape on the same day.

Name: Deepak Kalpoe
Date: 22 June 2005 / 18:15
Pages: 3
Writerllnitiator: Shaniro Kelly
Description: interrogation of D.S. Kalpoe
Responsive to Requests 27 and 41

Wednesday June 22, 2005 …from book

While being transferred from police station to KIA, Deepak and Satish are secretly recorded in a 40min conversation: see Two thirds of the way down

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1097.0



Hmmmmmmmm...Now just what did Simian have to say during this time.

One of the Kalpoes might be let go.....and I always thought it was Satish!







Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 22, 2008, 11:40:13 AM
Let’s assume that Simian is in fact ALE. Then he would know who the suspects actually are. Since we haven’t done a list in a while here’s mine.

1.   Guido…..Asked permission on 6/7/2005 to leave for Holland. Would a witness need to ask?
2.   Joran

3.   Deepak

4.   Satish

5.   Freddy….according to Marianne Croes detained on 6/9/2005


Another interesting note ….Deepak was not questioned one time while Paulus was detained.

                                        Paul VDS Statement 6/23/05
                                      Police Car Tape Transcript 6/24/05
                                            Joran Statements 6/24/05
                                             Satish Statement 6/24/05
                                           Paul VDS Statement 6/25/05
                                            Deepak Statement 6/29/05

I put the Police car transcript in the statements to show where it fits, and in his book Joran said that Deepak and Satish were taped. Here is where he was interrogated on 6/22/2005 and the car tape on the same day.

Name: Deepak Kalpoe
Date: 22 June 2005 / 18:15
Pages: 3
Writerllnitiator: Shaniro Kelly
Description: interrogation of D.S. Kalpoe
Responsive to Requests 27 and 41

Wednesday June 22, 2005 …from book

While being transferred from police station to KIA, Deepak and Satish are secretly recorded in a 40min conversation: see Two thirds of the way down

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1097.0



Hmmmmmmmm...Now just what did Simian have to say during this time.

One of the Kalpoes might be let go.....and I always thought it was Satish!







Mum is this true? Guido was questioned as a witness even before Joran and 2K's?
I thought Guido left for the Netherlands as soon as 2 days after Natalee went missing. Can you fill me in?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 22, 2008, 11:50:29 AM
Hi BB...June 2nd, 7th. and 8th.

http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/Statements_timeline.htm

I'm sorry I don't have the other written ones at hand right now, just the Log.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 22, 2008, 11:52:45 AM
Here is what I think......suspects were arrested. Witnesses were questioned, Guido later was charged, maybe making him a suspect in 2006. no? Anyway depending on if you include the security guards or not, and it seems S+S made few references to them therefore I think they weren't counted in the line-up. Paulus on the other hand was actually charged. So I think

1)Joran
2)Deepak
3)Satish
4) Steve Croes
5) PVDS

http://tinyurl.com/23wv9q

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159862,00.html

http://tinyurl.com/2x7vyu


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 22, 2008, 11:55:23 AM
Hi BB...June 2nd, 7th. and 8th.

http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/Statements_timeline.htm

I'm sorry I don't have the other written ones at hand right now, just the Log.


Thank-you Mum. I guess it it a question of when someone is truely a suspect. It is difficult.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 22, 2008, 11:55:36 AM
Guido was still in Aruba on 6/8/2005. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 22, 2008, 12:02:12 PM
 Name: Guido Wever
Date: 3 June 2005 / 20:45
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Marceline Ras
Description: witness statement by Joran van der Sloot friend

 Name: Guido Wever
Date: 7 June 2005 / 14:15
Pages: 1
Writer/Initiator: Giovanni Croes
Description: Notice about leaving Aruba for Holland

 Name: Guido Wever
Date: 8 June 2005 / 20:45
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator: Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 22, 2008, 12:04:35 PM
Guido was still in Aruba on 6/8/2005. 

Yes thank-you I saw that on the document Mum posted that he requested to leave on June 7th. I thought he had left earlier....well at least one thing is clear. :)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 22, 2008, 12:06:19 PM
 Name: Freddy Alexander Arambatzis
Date: 12 June 2005 / 11:05
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Juan Boezem
Description: witness statement of Joran van der Sloot's neighbor/friend

Name: Freddy Alexander Arambaizis
Date: 13 June 2005 / 17:00
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator. Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement

Was Freddy really a witness or were they just treating him like one in case they could trip him up on his stories and how they did or did not conflict with the others? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 22, 2008, 12:11:46 PM
No mention of Guido in Deepak or satish PVs for 5/31 so must be in the 'one' of Joran's. There is something further down from an Urban Croes friend of Guido and another I think Urbano Croes, HI casino...I have tried to work out if this is the same person.

Sorry about all the I thinks...LOL


BB...That is why I have been chasing around looking for someone that apparently didn't finish school and went to the Netherlands...and supposedly had scratches...I will have to find it again tomorrow, but apparently no scratches for Guido.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 22, 2008, 12:16:57 PM
This is some I had saved about the scratches, but there is more if I can put my hands on it. I believe a lot of the confusion came from Tito...IIRC...and I think that path led to Sander...

: Mon May 22, 2006 1:22 am    Post subject:  from hyscience 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
You're welcome Harry. It has been interesting to read around and I may have just gotten more confused than clarified. I'm going to bed now. You and me seem to be the only one's up late tonight and commenting.

There seem to be enough folks speculating about three people that my guess is there will be if it has not happened already. I think your original assessment that this Wever arrest is more than a suspect, perhaps a real charge, is likely accurate. The only reason I might guess that it may not be is the interview with Joe T >> I just didn't get the impression that he was convinced since he stressed they had known about him since the beginning.

One post somewhere said that Weaver worked the casino the night Natalee disappeared, my impression was for a few hours after her disappearance, and that others who worked with him thought he acted nervous (that wasn't their adjective, but it was similar), then he abruptly quit after her disappearance and moved to Holland. It is claimed by some he had scratches and bruises after here disappearance, but some were disputing this. He and Joran also were alleged to have played tennis the afternoon after Natalee disappeared.

I did find over at Refugees that someone seems to think these below are the three people being arrested. They say that Guido Wever was arrested last Wed and is the subject of the Dutch news interview and the one that Aruba wants to come back to be charged,that his attorney will fight this. One person said this Wever is not Lorenzo, but I am not sure about that. One said that Wever is not his Dutch last name, but his Dutch name does not exist in Aruba so he is called Wever - I have no idea is this is accurate and did not see this posted but once.

There is some speculation that the Columbian that some claim to have been arrested in Aruba may be the famous Jossy witness gardener.


Reply #950 on: January 22, 2008, 04:48:35 AM »    Quote
 
Bringing this discussion from August forward as Jossy is quoted as saying that it was not Guido who had the scratches.   


dialogue from final LCD thread on August 11, 2007, 07:07:02 PM

How did Guido get into this picture, charged as suspected as being accomplice to among other things heavy battery, "Grievous Bodily Harm". What time did Guido leave work that late night?

Anybody think that Guido was questioned in the first week of June 05 because of scratch/other witnesses, unrelated to Joran...initially?

I've a question. Did Jossy say or write that the scratches were on GvC not Guido?

He was detained last Wednesday. He was considered a witness in June, 2005. Since February of this year, he is now a suspect. Prosecutor in Aruba want him very quickly. Main evidence against him is witness made statements against him. He claims that he is innocent and never met Natalee last June.

Jossy says he will have to come back to Aruba and the case will go forward in court. Guido Wever is his name. He did not have scratches or bruises on him last June. He was interrogated last June. Good friend of Joran. Played Tennis with him and gambles with Joran. Jossy believes Guido is in bigger trouble than GVC ever was. GVC never knew Joran.

Also, according to Jossy Mansur of Diario in Aruba Guido Weaver is not the individual that was arrested the other day with the scratches on his face. Guido Weaver is another detained individual. The identity of the individual who was arrested with the scratches has yet to be identified.

 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 22, 2008, 12:19:07 PM
 Name: Freddy Alexander Arambatzis
Date: 16 June 2005115:30
Pages: 8
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement

What was in the previous witness statements that caused Jacobs to sit in on this interview?  I think it concerned the timeline...shortly after this interview both Koen and Sander were questioned. Flor Metz had been questioned also at this time.

The next day Jacobs is back in there with Freddy.  Freddy had information and they were either trying to find out what he knew in order to effect the cover up or Freddy said something inconsistent with previous statements made by J2K and Paulus.  Steve Croes was arrested and Simian began his convos on the FP with the other Aruban posters.  Now...the question is...what prompted this? 

Jacobs interference?
Timeline conflicts?
Missing cell phones?
Missing shoes?

Jaime was also questioned around this time...Jacobs questioned both Steve Croes and Jaime on the same day.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 22, 2008, 12:24:42 PM
From Paulus PV of June 18:

On May 30th 2005, in the nightly hours, I did not pick up Joran from anywhere. I slept solidly through the night without waking up. On May 30th in the morning hours, I did not notice anything out of the ordinary with Joran. According to me he got onto the I.S.A. bus with his brothers Sebastian and Valentijn just like he always does. I am not absolutely sure about that because I didn't notice it, and because Joran didn't have to be at school every day during that period. He was busy with his final exams and sometimes he stayed home. On May 30th at approximately 08.00, I went to work. The precise time I do not know for sure because during that period I had different hours on different days that I started working. I cannot remember any more if I came home to eat in the middle of the day, because that too was different on different days. At approximately 16.30, I got home and the kids were already home. Because my wife was in the Netherlands, I wanted to be home when the kids came home from school. Between 17.00 hours and 18.30 hours, I dropped off Joran in front of the entrance of the Aruba Raquet Club with my Suzuki, so that he could take tennis lessons and go to the gym.

Notice Paulus doesn't say a word in this about that documented 4 AM time frame that the courts used to deny him compensation.  He simple slept through the night.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 22, 2008, 12:30:54 PM
From the same PV of Paulus June 18:
You are asking me whether I asked Joran for Guido's phone-number. I did indeed do that to verify with Guido if Joran had truly won third place at the Holiday Inn Tournament. Joran had told me he had won third place, he said he had won $150 and had exchanged these into Aruban florin. I had my doubts because he hadn't told me he had won the money immediately after winning it. I spoke with Guido at the “Raquet Club” and he told me Joran did indeed win third or fourth place. I allow Joran to play the “Free Tournaments” but he is not allowed to play for real money in the casino.


Hmmmmm!  Joran in a casino playing poker and blackjack...we know he was sitting at a table playing, because we have a video of it.  He was playing with REAL MONEY.  I doubt he was just sitting there trying to get fake money back for one of those girls.  Paulus was also playing with REAL money. 

This statement, if we had it in it's entirety would be a real eye opener. Most of it is lies...but even lies tell a tale.  ALE already knew Guido was involved in some way...they were asking Paulus if he...Paulus himself....had called Guido!  Paulus had other reason to call Guido and it wasn't about fake money...Paulus already knew the answer to that...he was sitting there with Joran. MOO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 22, 2008, 12:31:31 PM
Joran was questioned about Flor's cell phone...heck they were all questioned about cell phones.

I would have to check the PV's to see the dates and also the date the shoes were first talked about.

I know the shoes were discussed by Deepak, in my post above on June 4th, from the book. That says June statement with a ?....came from the book translation....the one from other sites, not the one that Klaas did.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 22, 2008, 12:39:41 PM
It is becoming much more likely that Freddy is the 5th suspect.  He certainly was in the mix as a witness...did Simian interchange the words suspect and witness or was he calling Freddy was he really was.....SUSPECT...it's harder to get suspects to talk...but leave them as witnesses and you get more from them.  It's that darn alibi that keeps throwing a kink in all this information. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 22, 2008, 12:44:54 PM

I do remeber hearing about Guido with the scratches....seems Jossy thinks it is someone else though? GVC maybe? Sorry Lala's I know this non-Shango is making you  :smt091


+++++++++++

    Jossy says he will have to come back to Aruba and the case will go forward in court. Guido Wever is his name. He did not have scratches or bruises on him last June. He was interrogated last June. Good friend of Joran. Played Tennis with him and gambles with Joran. Jossy believes Guido is in bigger trouble than GVC ever was. GVC never knew Joran.

Also, according to Jossy Mansur of Diario in Aruba Guido Weaver is not the individual that was arrested the other day with the scratches on his face. Guido Weaver is another detained individual. The identity of the individual who was arrested with the scratches has yet to be identified.

http://tinyurl.com/2axrma


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 22, 2008, 12:49:33 PM
It is becoming much more likely that Freddy is the 5th suspect.  He certainly was in the mix as a witness...did Simian interchange the words suspect and witness or was he calling Freddy was he really was.....SUSPECT...it's harder to get suspects to talk...but leave them as witnesses and you get more from them.  It's that darn alibi that keeps throwing a kink in all this information. 

I think it would depend on the vantage point from where Simian was observing the case. Just thinking out loud,but the nearer the inside(to ALE), possibly the more privy to information and therefore the more likely to consider Freddy the fifth. By contrast my post referring to PVDS as the fifth is according to MSM. Clear as mud-I know.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 22, 2008, 12:51:40 PM
It is becoming much more likely that Freddy is the 5th suspect.  He certainly was in the mix as a witness...did Simian interchange the words suspect and witness or was he calling Freddy was he really was.....SUSPECT...it's harder to get suspects to talk...but leave them as witnesses and you get more from them.  It's that darn alibi that keeps throwing a kink in all this information. 

I think it would depend on the vantage point from where Simian was observing the case. Just thinking out loud,but the nearer the inside(to ALE), possibly the more privy to information and therefore the more likely to consider Freddy the fifth. By contrast my post referring to PVDS as the fifth is according to MSM. Clear as mud-I know.

Don't get me wrong...Paulus could fit the 5th suspect just as easily if we could just get that "boyfriend" term in perspective.   Yep, clear as mud. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 22, 2008, 02:51:23 PM

Finbar thanks for your explanation
[/quote

YW.

Would a male[/] ever say, "... playing with emotions..." in your opinion?

I agree with your frustration though.

There are many winding paths created where none should exist. Why?

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 22, 2008, 02:57:04 PM
Finbar & Bleachedblack -

Do you seriously think I only look at IP's and email addys?  I've read everything that has been posted about AG and Simian and others.  I have done my own research.

Like I said, I'm not telling you what to believe I've simply saying that I will stake my life on it that AG is not Simian.

I believe arguing the point is very unproductive at this stage of the game.

Klaas,

I never mentioned IP's and email addys first. lol.

I would not stake me life on anything in this twisted puzzle. I would place the probability in the 90% range though. With the dopple being the mother.

If not her, then it would have to be M.C..

I would like to hear your thoughts on who it is. You may email me if you do not wish to post it.

Simian is a female though.

All Me Best,
Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 22, 2008, 03:21:54 PM
It is becoming much more likely that Freddy is the 5th suspect.  He certainly was in the mix as a witness...did Simian interchange the words suspect and witness or was he calling Freddy was he really was.....SUSPECT...it's harder to get suspects to talk...but leave them as witnesses and you get more from them.  It's that darn alibi that keeps throwing a kink in all this information. 

I think it would depend on the vantage point from where Simian was observing the case. Just thinking out loud,but the nearer the inside(to ALE), possibly the more privy to information and therefore the more likely to consider Freddy the fifth. By contrast my post referring to PVDS as the fifth is according to MSM. Clear as mud-I know.

Don't get me wrong...Paulus could fit the 5th suspect just as easily if we could just get that "boyfriend" term in perspective.   Yep, clear as mud. LOL

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.

The lamb is a scapegoat.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 22, 2008, 04:05:05 PM
It is becoming much more likely that Freddy is the 5th suspect.  He certainly was in the mix as a witness...did Simian interchange the words suspect and witness or was he calling Freddy was he really was.....SUSPECT...it's harder to get suspects to talk...but leave them as witnesses and you get more from them.  It's that darn alibi that keeps throwing a kink in all this information. 

I think it would depend on the vantage point from where Simian was observing the case. Just thinking out loud,but the nearer the inside(to ALE), possibly the more privy to information and therefore the more likely to consider Freddy the fifth. By contrast my post referring to PVDS as the fifth is according to MSM. Clear as mud-I know.

Don't get me wrong...Paulus could fit the 5th suspect just as easily if we could just get that "boyfriend" term in perspective.   Yep, clear as mud. LOL

He is if, you know what he did and where he did it, or assisted in the wrong doing.

Lala, the 5th Waltz.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sirensong on February 23, 2008, 03:33:09 AM
Is it possible  "the lamb" in Shango's riddle is not Joran?  Maybe they were going to make Guido the scapegoat.   I find it VERY interesting that Paulus contacted him.  And we KNOW it was not about Joran winning money, such an  obvious  lie.   They were making it all up day by day.  No wonder Joran was claiming his dad had a bad memory.  Once Paulus was jailed, he was  terrified Joran would say something that would incriminate him.  Paulus knew what a big mouth, stupid punk his son was.  He couldn't even believe or trust him.   Yes, Paulus is the  fifth suspect, waltzing away.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 23, 2008, 04:57:20 AM
So, as far as we have traveled, all we know fer certain is:
1. JVDS is a bisexual
2. JVDS Bogarts spliffs

The ghost of Bob Marley be sayin', "be tokin' or passin' mon, ire."

Bi? I don't care if one be homo or hetero, but bi? Jeez St Patrick in Heaven! Choose a side you greedy bi-pig!

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 23, 2008, 12:04:33 PM
Name: Freddy Alexander Arambatzis
Date: 12 June 2005 / 11:05
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Juan Boezem
Description: witness statement of Joran van der Sloot's neighbor/friend

Name: Freddy Alexander Arambaizis
Date: 13 June 2005 / 17:00
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator. Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement

Was Freddy really a witness or were they just treating him like one in case they could trip him up on his stories and how they did or did not conflict with the others? 


Lala's....I really believe Freddy was a suspect at some time. Just from the way that the Log is written when Karen and Carmen were interviewed.

After Lorenzo was questioned on the 28th. Freddy doesn't have anything for us to identify what he is.

After being kicked off yesterday, I had a chance to read some of my notes. The first thing is that I was misreading what Marianne Croes said about Freddy on the 9th of June. That means I need to have a good look at the time right before Karen came in.

I think you are right Lala's....Karen and Carmen are part of Freddy's alibi.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 23, 2008, 12:10:26 PM
From the same PV of Paulus June 18:
You are asking me whether I asked Joran for Guido's phone-number. I did indeed do that to verify with Guido if Joran had truly won third place at the Holiday Inn Tournament. Joran had told me he had won third place, he said he had won $150 and had exchanged these into Aruban florin. I had my doubts because he hadn't told me he had won the money immediately after winning it. I spoke with Guido at the “Raquet Club” and he told me Joran did indeed win third or fourth place. I allow Joran to play the “Free Tournaments” but he is not allowed to play for real money in the casino.


Hmmmmm!  Joran in a casino playing poker and blackjack...we know he was sitting at a table playing, because we have a video of it.  He was playing with REAL MONEY.  I doubt he was just sitting there trying to get fake money back for one of those girls.  Paulus was also playing with REAL money. 

This statement, if we had it in it's entirety would be a real eye opener. Most of it is lies...but even lies tell a tale.  ALE already knew Guido was involved in some way...they were asking Paulus if he...Paulus himself....had called Guido!  Paulus had other reason to call Guido and it wasn't about fake money...Paulus already knew the answer to that...he was sitting there with Joran. MOO


Guido had an ATV and car taken IIRC.

Wasn't he supposedly at the casinos on the Monday as well as Deepak and Santos? Joran's alibe for the night the family arrived.

And Paulus said he called Guido at the Racquet Club...that club is bugging me....these pimps keep mentioning it the next 3 or 4 days after Natalee disappeared.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 23, 2008, 12:19:14 PM

I do remeber hearing about Guido with the scratches....seems Jossy thinks it is someone else though? GVC maybe? Sorry Lala's I know this non-Shango is making you  :smt091


+++++++++++

    Jossy says he will have to come back to Aruba and the case will go forward in court. Guido Wever is his name. He did not have scratches or bruises on him last June. He was interrogated last June. Good friend of Joran. Played Tennis with him and gambles with Joran. Jossy believes Guido is in bigger trouble than GVC ever was. GVC never knew Joran.

Also, according to Jossy Mansur of Diario in Aruba Guido Weaver is not the individual that was arrested the other day with the scratches on his face. Guido Weaver is another detained individual. The identity of the individual who was arrested with the scratches has yet to be identified.

http://tinyurl.com/2axrma


GVC has crossed my mind too. I've posted before that his Dad was reportedly interrogated early on, read it somewhere and did not save it.

GVC was mentioned as having contact with the MB'ers and I can't forget the way he reacted to that phone call from his Mom. I suggested once that maybe it was his Mom and his Dad had been questioned.

I wonder when he left Aruba, if his Dad still owns VCB? The house was still for sale as of 12/17/2007, though I haven't checked lately.

I always think of him when I see those reports of arrests that didn't happen on 6/11. the news report said outside the city and everytime I see a map it reminds me of Paradera.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 23, 2008, 12:22:27 PM
It is becoming much more likely that Freddy is the 5th suspect.  He certainly was in the mix as a witness...did Simian interchange the words suspect and witness or was he calling Freddy was he really was.....SUSPECT...it's harder to get suspects to talk...but leave them as witnesses and you get more from them.  It's that darn alibi that keeps throwing a kink in all this information. 

I think it would depend on the vantage point from where Simian was observing the case. Just thinking out loud,but the nearer the inside(to ALE), possibly the more privy to information and therefore the more likely to consider Freddy the fifth. By contrast my post referring to PVDS as the fifth is according to MSM. Clear as mud-I know.


This is what I was trying to say...LOL...must be my accent... ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 23, 2008, 12:25:01 PM
It is becoming much more likely that Freddy is the 5th suspect.  He certainly was in the mix as a witness...did Simian interchange the words suspect and witness or was he calling Freddy was he really was.....SUSPECT...it's harder to get suspects to talk...but leave them as witnesses and you get more from them.  It's that darn alibi that keeps throwing a kink in all this information. 

I think it would depend on the vantage point from where Simian was observing the case. Just thinking out loud,but the nearer the inside(to ALE), possibly the more privy to information and therefore the more likely to consider Freddy the fifth. By contrast my post referring to PVDS as the fifth is according to MSM. Clear as mud-I know.

Don't get me wrong...Paulus could fit the 5th suspect just as easily if we could just get that "boyfriend" term in perspective.   Yep, clear as mud. LOL

LOL...wild and crazy guy...NOT

Hi Fin....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 23, 2008, 12:30:10 PM
Is it possible  "the lamb" in Shango's riddle is not Joran?  Maybe they were going to make Guido the scapegoat.   I find it VERY interesting that Paulus contacted him.  And we KNOW it was not about Joran winning money, such an  obvious  lie.   They were making it all up day by day.  No wonder Joran was claiming his dad had a bad memory.  Once Paulus was jailed, he was  terrified Joran would say something that would incriminate him.  Paulus knew what a big mouth, stupid punk his son was.  He couldn't even believe or trust him.   Yes, Paulus is the  fifth suspect, waltzing away.

I posted a link a while back, probably 20 pages by now and posted that it almost made Joran sound like the 'boyfriend from earlier in the week'. If I run across it I will repost.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 23, 2008, 12:34:35 PM
BB....I believe that J2K were arrested early in the morning and the phone call that GVC got was in the nightly hours....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 23, 2008, 01:12:50 PM
GVC was in the Netherlands 5/09/2006 and Guido was arrested on 5/21/2005. He was threatening to sue....

I wonder if he had scratches?????

Also at the link about 'Willem' van C. being questioned, but I did see 'interrogaed' before.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/index.php?s=opsporing


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 23, 2008, 02:07:41 PM
Mum brought something to my attention today...concerning the raquet club and tennis.  Hope you don't mind..I found it interesting.

quote from Mum:
Sounds like someone gave his name. Just started searching and if I
change the name to Sanchez...I come up with a Columbian tennis player.

Responsive to Request 41
+ Name: Jorge Porras Sanches
Date: 21 June 2005 / 14:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Juan Boezem / Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement


With further discovery we find that both Humphrey Hose and Magda Frans from the Raquet Club are interviewed on the same day...along with Steve Croes and then  the next day....who is arrested?????    Paulus.

This is about those shoes and whether or not Joran was ever at that club the next day.  Paulus was kind of vague on those details.


Paulus June 25, 2005
We spoke last time about that Monday night when Joran was at the "Raquet Club", that I only took the bag with me. I am remembering that it was around 08:00pm when I took the bag to Joran at the “Raquet Club”, this was when Joran was walking in the direction of the Marriott and made the announcement that he was going to participate in the “Free Tournament” at the Wyndham that this came up. In my view I even grumbled to Joran and then went on to pick up Sebastian at the ZEOLA family. Again I am not sure. This image comes in my head, but I had no reason at that moment to remember any of these things. I had done a lot on automatic pilot. Sure when it came to pickup and bring the kids back. I also don't know the relevance of this fact.

On your question if I can tell you what Joran wore that day, I can explain to you the following:

I can remember very vague, in my view he had something blue, but I am not absolutely sure.

On your question if I can remember what kind of shoes Joran had on, I can explain to you the following:

I think that he had a gym shoes on, but I am not sure.

On your question on what time did the above occur, I can explain to you the following:

The association of 08.00pm comes to me, because I thought that the tournament didn't start at 08.00pm?

On your question if I saw other friends of Joran at the "Raquet Club" on that Monday night of May 30 2005, I can explain to you the following:

I can't remember if I had seen Joran's friends.



Also keep in mind this same statement is the one with the confusing date...it either happened on June 23 or 25. 

After the suspect P.A.P.J van der Sloot had read his statement, he declared he agrees with what is on the paper and signed it. Of which by us, on oath of office made this warrant, closed and signed in Noord on June 23 (25*), 2005.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 23, 2008, 02:25:06 PM
I remember checking a while back and that whole Monday and the Racquet Club is a little weird. Will go back and revisit Joran's account as I know it didn't match with Paulus. At the time I was following the bag.

Got to finish checking on the days after at that Club....Joran 30th, Freddy 31st, Satish another day, Joran and a girl at the pool.

Joran does not say he met Freddy there on 5/30...Joran said he went to Freddy's house.... and had to wait for Freddy.

Isn't that Salinja by the Racquet Club?...Is that the one in the Aru-Bay/Chicago videos?...the ones with an arrow pointing at shoes?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 23, 2008, 02:34:17 PM
Thought I would post this for all of us…clear as mud….right?


HOLLOWAY INVESTIGATION: REVOLVING DOOR IN ARUBA?
Tuesday, April 25, 2006
 
snippied....

KOCK: No, not yet. But he was just held for interrogation, so he was not formally arrested. You can always be held for interrogation after six hour, and they didn't find necessity to keep detaining him after that. But we don't know yet who he is.

VAN SUSTEREN: But you get with it, which sort of is unusual, you get labeled "suspect." They pick you up; they talk to you. And even when they let you go because you didn't say enough to keep you, you're a suspect.

KOCK: Yes, well, you can hold somebody up and question them as a witness. But once you put the label on them "suspect," there are certain things that you can do to such a person, and I think that's why very — I don't want to say easily, but very rapidly you would want to qualify somebody a suspect. I mean, it's the interest of the investigating authorities.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 23, 2008, 02:44:52 PM
So, as far as we have traveled, all we know fer certain is:
1. JVDS is a bisexual
2. JVDS Bogarts spliffs

The ghost of Bob Marley be sayin', "be tokin' or passin' mon, ire."

Bi? I don't care if one be homo or hetero, but bi? Jeez St Patrick in Heaven! Choose a side you greedy bi-pig!

Fin

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 23, 2008, 03:10:56 PM
Caps....I've been googling away and I bet you know what this means...TIA

Of course I don't mind Lala's...

Responsive to Request 41
+ Name: Jorge Porras Sanches

Date: 21 June 2005 / 14:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Juan Boezem / Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 23, 2008, 05:05:44 PM
Caps....I've been googling away and I bet you know what this means...TIA

Of course I don't mind Lala's...

Responsive to Request 41
+ Name: Jorge Porras Sanches

Date: 21 June 2005 / 14:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Juan Boezem / Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement






CAPS
Do you know who this person is? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 23, 2008, 08:09:17 PM
Caps....I've been googling away and I bet you know what this means...TIA

Of course I don't mind Lala's...

Responsive to Request 41
+ Name: Jorge Porras Sanches

Date: 21 June 2005 / 14:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Juan Boezem / Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement






CAPS
Do you know who this person is? 
Which one

Johny Erasmus:

Johny work for Sonesta Hotel in Aruba. He hanga out a lot in the Casinos.
Jaun Boezem: is being check....I know his brother is a KIA Guard


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 23, 2008, 08:21:56 PM


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open?
Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths.
Tell the Cowboys!
The Arawaks are hiding the path to the Maze for the Babylonians.

Lamb and the Elder are stepping stones into the fetid pool of deception.
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sirensong on February 23, 2008, 08:27:30 PM
You all may already have  this, but  came  across it  when searching one night.   I believe it is a register  of businesses that belong to the Aruba Chamber of  Commerce?   It  lists  the owner and the business address, and I have been checking it against  the other list of businesses I  posted.  If nothing else, it is  interesting to see the names on it.  My hope is that it will  be helpful to  one of  you smart Monkeys!

http://www.arubachamber.com/LC%20KLEIN%2005-06-2005.htm

http://www.visitaruba.com/business/directory/busdir.mv?search


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 24, 2008, 01:06:21 AM


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open?
Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths.
Tell the Cowboys!
The Arawaks are hiding the path to the Maze for the Babylonians.

Lamb and the Elder are stepping stones into the fetid pool of deception.
 

Fetid pool..

Moko near the Sloots?
Landfill?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 24, 2008, 01:13:00 AM
You all may already have  this, but  came  across it  when searching one night.   I believe it is a register  of businesses that belong to the Aruba Chamber of  Commerce?   It  lists  the owner and the business address, and I have been checking it against  the other list of businesses I  posted.  If nothing else, it is  interesting to see the names on it.  My hope is that it will  be helpful to  one of  you smart Monkeys!

http://www.arubachamber.com/LC%20KLEIN%2005-06-2005.htm

http://www.visitaruba.com/business/directory/busdir.mv?search


Siren,

Yes , it is a useful tool.

Look up how many businesses Jossy owns.

Here is one for PVDS

Appearing in the Trade Register of the Chamber of Commerce and Industry in ARUBA since 18 JANUARY 2007 under serial number 35741.0 is the company with the trade name:

 
CARLO & VAN DER SLOOT
 
Business address   CONSTANTIJN HUYGENSTRAAT 5, ORANJESTAD OOST
Legal form   PARTNERSHIP
Name of the company   CARLO & VAN DER SLOOT
Date of commencement   1 JANUARY 2007
    
 
OWNERS/PARTNERS

ADVOCATENKANTOOR MR A.A.D.A. CARLO N.V.
Established at   CONSTANTIJN HUYGENSTRAAT 5, ORANJESTAD, ARUBA
Position   MANAGING PARTNER
Since   18 JANUARY 2007
Authority   FULL
 
VAN DER SLOOT, PAUL ANTONIUS PETRUS JOHANNA;
Residing in   MONTANJA 19, NOORD, ARUBA
Born in   THE NETHERLANDS, BOXTEL on 15 FEBRUARY 1952
Nationality   DUTCH
Position   MANAGING PARTNER
Effective   18 JANUARY 2007
Authority   FULL
 
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY

HET UITOEFENEN VAN EEN ADVOCATENKANTOOR.
 
Only valid if accordingly signed by the Chamber of Commerce & Industry Aruba - J.E. Irausquin Blvd.10, Oranjestad, Aruba.

=====

Carlo, that name rings a bell.

Hi Mum.

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on February 24, 2008, 01:25:23 AM
It is becoming much more likely that Freddy is the 5th suspect.  He certainly was in the mix as a witness...did Simian interchange the words suspect and witness or was he calling Freddy was he really was.....SUSPECT...it's harder to get suspects to talk...but leave them as witnesses and you get more from them.  It's that darn alibi that keeps throwing a kink in all this information. 

I think it would depend on the vantage point from where Simian was observing the case. Just thinking out loud,but the nearer the inside(to ALE), possibly the more privy to information and therefore the more likely to consider Freddy the fifth. By contrast my post referring to PVDS as the fifth is according to MSM. Clear as mud-I know.



This is what I was trying to say...LOL...must be my accent... ::MonkeyHaHa::



Sister is a police officer. Their house was listed for sale as of 12/14/2007.(Yellow…just like the Gottenbos)

CROMVOIRT, Geoffry van - 19 years old, resident of Aruba, who was detained by ALE on 4-15-2006 in an unannounced connection to the Natalee Holloway case. He is the son of the owner of an island security company that supplies equipment and personnel to beach patrol and hotels. For more information see Who’s Who - Victim, Suspects, Witnesses & Families.

CROMVOIRT, Wilhemus “Willem” Bernadus Henricus Papaya van - owner & operator of VCB Security. Father of Geoffrey van Cromvoirt. There is some question as to whether the Cromvoirt’s moved to the Netherlands. Resided at 14D, Paradera, Aruba.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on February 24, 2008, 01:30:08 AM


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open?
Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths.
Tell the Cowboys!
The Arawaks are hiding the path to the Maze for the Babylonians.

Lamb and the Elder are stepping stones into the fetid pool of deception.
 

Fetid pool..

Moko near the Sloots?
Landfill?

Joran = Arrested 6-9-05, released 9-3-05 by Judge R Smid , under “reasonable suspicion of murder, manslaughter or intentional containment with the dead as consequence”

Deepak = Arrested 6-9-05, released 7-4-05, under “reasonable suspicion of murder, manslaughter or intentional containment with the dead as consequence” Re-arrested on 8-26-05 under suspicion of the primary criminal act of committing premeditated murder, alternately together with other people murdering somebody, more alternately, rob a person of her liberty with fatal consequences, and even more alternately, raping somebody

Satish = Arrested 6-9-05 along with his brother Deepak, & Joran. Seemingly unemployed 18 year old citizen of Suriname under “reasonable suspicion of murder, manslaughter or intentional containment with the dead as consequence.”

Paulus = Arrested 6-23-2005 around 2:15 pm, released 6-26-05. Suspicion of complicity to premeditated murder, complicity to murder and complicity to kidnapping

Guido = Arrested on 5-20-06, released on 5-23-06, under suspicion of accessory to murder, kidnapping and heavy battery.

Geoffrey Cromvroit detained April  2006.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on February 24, 2008, 01:42:55 AM
Is it possible  "the lamb" in Shango's riddle is not Joran?  Maybe they were going to make Guido the scapegoat.   I find it VERY interesting that Paulus contacted him.  And we KNOW it was not about Joran winning money, such an  obvious  lie.   They were making it all up day by day.  No wonder Joran was claiming his dad had a bad memory.  Once Paulus was jailed, he was  terrified Joran would say something that would incriminate him.  Paulus knew what a big mouth, stupid punk his son was.  He couldn't even believe or trust him.   Yes, Paulus is the  fifth suspect, waltzing away.

oran = Arrested 6-9-05, released 9-3-05 by Judge R Smid , under “reasonable suspicion of murder, manslaughter or intentional containment with the dead as consequence”

Deepak = Arrested 6-9-05, released 7-4-05, under “reasonable suspicion of murder, manslaughter or intentional containment with the dead as consequence” Re-arrested on 8-26-05 under suspicion of the primary criminal act of committing premeditated murder, alternately together with other people murdering somebody, more alternately, rob a person of her liberty with fatal consequences, and even more alternately, raping somebody

Satish = Arrested 6-9-05 along with his brother Deepak, & Joran. Seemingly unemployed 18 year old citizen of Suriname under “reasonable suspicion of murder, manslaughter or intentional containment with the dead as consequence.”

Paulus = Arrested 6-23-2005 around 2:15 pm, released 6-26-05. Suspicion of complicity to premeditated murder, complicity to murder and complicity to kidnapping

GVC detained in April 2006.

Guido = Arrested on 5-20-06, released on 5-23-06, under suspicion of accessory to murder, kidnapping and heavy battery.

Geoffrey Cromvroit detained April  2006 would make him 5th suspect if the two security guards are not counted and if they are you have anouther 5th suspect being Joran.  So it would be my guess either way Joran and/or GVC are the 5th suspects and maybe just as culpable.    jack blue


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on February 24, 2008, 01:51:30 AM
Here is what I think......suspects were arrested. Witnesses were questioned, Guido later was charged, maybe making him a suspect in 2006. no? Anyway depending on if you include the security guards or not, and it seems S+S made few references to them therefore I think they weren't counted in the line-up. Paulus on the other hand was actually charged. So I think

1)Joran
2)Deepak
3)Satish
4) Steve Croes
5) PVDS

http://tinyurl.com/23wv9q

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159862,00.html

http://tinyurl.com/2x7vyu

Croes was more like a witness at the time wasn't he?

Joran
Depak
Satish
Palus
GVC      April 06
Guido    May 06

I thought that would be the way it went.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 24, 2008, 07:56:21 AM


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open?
Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths.
Tell the Cowboys!
The Arawaks are hiding the path to the Maze for the Babylonians.

Lamb and the Elder are stepping stones into the fetid pool of deception.
 

Fetid pool..

Moko near the Sloots?
Landfill?

Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid Arawak King who wishes to blame the babylonians for the behaviour of lowly minions.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 24, 2008, 07:57:42 AM
off topic....somewhat:

http://www.amazon.com/Delivery-Man-Joe-McGinniss-Jr/dp/0802170420/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1203857428&sr=8-1


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 24, 2008, 08:57:32 AM
Caps....I've been googling away and I bet you know what this means...TIA

Of course I don't mind Lala's...

Responsive to Request 41
+ Name: Jorge Porras Sanches

Date: 21 June 2005 / 14:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Juan Boezem / Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement






CAPS
Do you know who this person is? 
Which one

Johny Erasmus:

Johny work for Sonesta Hotel in Aruba. He hanga out a lot in the Casinos.
Jaun Boezem: is being check....I know his brother is a KIA Guard


Caps who is this and what does it mean? TIA


Responsive to Request 41
+ Name: Jorge Porras Sanches  


Book

P178

"Despite the fact that i stuck to the same statement for two and half months, i was interrogated many times per week."

Guards treated Joran very well but the interrogators did not. Every interrogation was recorded but sometimes they turned off the camera. One police officer hit him.

CHAPTER 14

Chapter 14 Slapped by the police

July 16,

The police arrived for a further interview. They ask if Joran would give a DNA sample. Although he does not have a problem with it, his parents and lawyer’s oppose the idea.

Joran takes the police on another walk-through outside the Marriott.

The police asked if this “Location indication” was truthful, Joran refused to answer.

Upon his return to jail, Joran was interrogated by a police officer Boezem. Boezem turned off the camera and began shouting at Joran. He grabbed Joran by the shirt.

Boezem screamed that Joran was “a murderer.” “Everybody hates you” Boezem continued. “Your family hates you. Nobody believes you. Your whole family and your lawyers should be locked up since they all know the truth.”
At this point Joran tells Boezem to f*** off at which point, Boezem slaps Joran across the forehead with his bare hand, causing Joran to fall off the chair.

Page 210 -212.

The assault left a mark. Two guards reported the incident and a social worker called a doctor to visit Joran and make a report.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 24, 2008, 10:50:18 AM
Caps....I've been googling away and I bet you know what this means...TIA

Of course I don't mind Lala's...

Responsive to Request 41
+ Name: Jorge Porras Sanches

Date: 21 June 2005 / 14:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Juan Boezem / Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement






CAPS
Do you know who this person is? 
Which one

Johny Erasmus:

Johny work for Sonesta Hotel in Aruba. He hanga out a lot in the Casinos.
Jaun Boezem: is being check....I know his brother is a KIA Guard


Caps who is this and what does it mean? TIA


Responsive to Request 41
+ Name: Jorge Porras Sanches  


Book

P178

"Despite the fact that i stuck to the same statement for two and half months, i was interrogated many times per week."

Guards treated Joran very well but the interrogators did not. Every interrogation was recorded but sometimes they turned off the camera. One police officer hit him.

CHAPTER 14

Chapter 14 Slapped by the police

July 16,

The police arrived for a further interview. They ask if Joran would give a DNA sample. Although he does not have a problem with it, his parents and lawyer’s oppose the idea.

Joran takes the police on another walk-through outside the Marriott.

The police asked if this “Location indication” was truthful, Joran refused to answer.

Upon his return to jail, Joran was interrogated by a police officer Boezem. Boezem turned off the camera and began shouting at Joran. He grabbed Joran by the shirt.

Boezem screamed that Joran was “a murderer.” “Everybody hates you” Boezem continued. “Your family hates you. Nobody believes you. Your whole family and your lawyers should be locked up since they all know the truth.”
At this point Joran tells Boezem to f*** off at which point, Boezem slaps Joran across the forehead with his bare hand, causing Joran to fall off the chair.

Page 210 -212.

The assault left a mark. Two guards reported the incident and a social worker called a doctor to visit Joran and make a report.




And look at what was happening during this timeframe...


Bozeman has interviewed Joran's girlfriend..Flor and Koen Gottenbos.  Steve Croes was arrested the next day...it fits with the other stuff.  Someone was telling a different story than Joran...again.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 24, 2008, 10:56:37 AM
According to the Timeline of the Dr. Phil documents...Bozeman questioned Koen several times after...there is something about what Koen was saying in contrast to what Joran was saying.   Of course, this is from Joran's perspective...so you have to read between the lines...if Bozeman didn't whack the sporter he will next time he gets the chance.

I think Sander and Koen were being implicated with this boat story that Joran had already told certain people...Jacobs and Straten...they were not saying anything and just letting the lower ALE carry on as if nothing was known.  Joran was trying to make Bozeman look bad in his book..but he just made me think what did Bozeman do that made Joran so nervous...I really should just take things at face value...I guess. MOO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 24, 2008, 11:04:10 AM
Finbar wrote;
Quote
Siren,

Yes , it is a useful tool.

Look up how many businesses Jossy owns.

Here is one for PVDS

Appearing in the Trade Register of the Chamber of Commerce and Industry in ARUBA since 18 JANUARY 2007 under serial number 35741.0 is the company with the trade name:

 
CARLO & VAN DER SLOOT
 
Business address   CONSTANTIJN HUYGENSTRAAT 5, ORANJESTAD OOST
Legal form   PARTNERSHIP
Name of the company   CARLO & VAN DER SLOOT
Date of commencement   1 JANUARY 2007
   
 
OWNERS/PARTNERS

ADVOCATENKANTOOR MR A.A.D.A. CARLO N.V.
Established at   CONSTANTIJN HUYGENSTRAAT 5, ORANJESTAD, ARUBA
Position   MANAGING PARTNER
Since   18 JANUARY 2007
Authority   FULL
 
VAN DER SLOOT, PAUL ANTONIUS PETRUS JOHANNA;
Residing in   MONTANJA 19, NOORD, ARUBA
Born in   THE NETHERLANDS, BOXTEL on 15 FEBRUARY 1952
Nationality   DUTCH
Position   MANAGING PARTNER
Effective   18 JANUARY 2007
Authority   FULL
 
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY

HET UITOEFENEN VAN EEN ADVOCATENKANTOOR.
 
Only valid if accordingly signed by the Chamber of Commerce & Industry Aruba - J.E. Irausquin Blvd.10, Oranjestad, Aruba.

=====

Carlo, that name rings a bell.

Hi Mum.

Fin

I think that is the law partnership Paulus joined in with Carlo.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 24, 2008, 11:12:30 AM
Here is what I think......suspects were arrested. Witnesses were questioned, Guido later was charged, maybe making him a suspect in 2006. no? Anyway depending on if you include the security guards or not, and it seems S+S made few references to them therefore I think they weren't counted in the line-up. Paulus on the other hand was actually charged. So I think

1)Joran
2)Deepak
3)Satish
4) Steve Croes
5) PVDS

http://tinyurl.com/23wv9q

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159862,00.html

http://tinyurl.com/2x7vyu

Croes was more like a witness at the time wasn't he?

Joran
Depak
Satish
Palus
GVC      April 06
Guido    May 06

I thought that would be the way it went.


I personally think Croes was more than a witness.....afterall he was jailed for more than a week. I know why he says he was brought in by ALE, but I have quoted it before ......
the reason he was brought in was because of statements by one of the 3 perps and this was said by jan van der straaten. This makes sense, not the fact that he "overheard a conversation" at the internet cafe. or that he saw 3 people arguing on the beach and had to go tell ALE (another line he once gave). MOO
 
As for the order of the suspects......your guess is as good as mine.... ::MonkeyWink::
++++++

>>>>SNIP

Police Superintendent Jan van der Straaten told the AP Croes was detained based on information from one of the other three detainees.

http://tinyurl.com/2ljs2v


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 24, 2008, 11:21:30 AM


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open?
Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths.
Tell the Cowboys!
The Arawaks are hiding the path to the Maze for the Babylonians.

Lamb and the Elder are stepping stones into the fetid pool of deception.
 
fetid depths/ fetid pool = corruption


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 24, 2008, 11:22:53 AM
Here is what I think......suspects were arrested. Witnesses were questioned, Guido later was charged, maybe making him a suspect in 2006. no? Anyway depending on if you include the security guards or not, and it seems S+S made few references to them therefore I think they weren't counted in the line-up. Paulus on the other hand was actually charged. So I think

1)Joran
2)Deepak
3)Satish
4) Steve Croes
5) PVDS

http://tinyurl.com/23wv9q

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159862,00.html

http://tinyurl.com/2x7vyu

Croes was more like a witness at the time wasn't he?

Joran
Depak
Satish
Palus
GVC      April 06
Guido    May 06

I thought that would be the way it went.


Well, if you read the news reports and the comments from the FP posters in Aruba at the time.  It is clear that Croes was a suspect in some way. Simian is talking about a 5th person long before the April 6 and May 6 dates...so it has to be someone other than GVC or Guido.  As I said, there was a person detained as a witness, but in Aruba it seems suspect and witness is interchanged.  To me the only person that fits the suspect status is Steve or Paulus at the time...but...we still don't have a clear picture about Freddy during all this. Not to mention there is another person that even Checkme...and Aruban poster...was talking about...Lorenzo.  Again...little to go on as proof. So there remains a lot of confusion. I do understand your thinking along this line. More input please.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 24, 2008, 11:26:15 AM
Caps....I've been googling away and I bet you know what this means...TIA

Of course I don't mind Lala's...

Responsive to Request 41
+ Name: Jorge Porras Sanches

Date: 21 June 2005 / 14:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Juan Boezem / Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement






CAPS
Do you know who this person is? 
Which one

Johny Erasmus:

Johny work for Sonesta Hotel in Aruba. He hanga out a lot in the Casinos.
Jaun Boezem: is being check....I know his brother is a KIA Guard



Caps no way Erasmus works with Sonesta.  He was ALE and taking statements from this guy Sanches. He and Bozeman were both ALE.  Please recheck your sources. TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on February 24, 2008, 12:54:38 PM
Lala's

In case you miss my post on the LCD, I posted the GVC / dad interview, under it's own topic (under Natalee, a little below this thread).


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 24, 2008, 02:02:19 PM
Shango's "lamb" is Joran...lambdersloot...lamb ran bleating...lamb will be sacrifice to appease cowboys.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Chata on February 24, 2008, 05:30:21 PM
According to the Timeline of the Dr. Phil documents...Bozeman questioned Koen several times after...there is something about what Koen was saying in contrast to what Joran was saying.   Of course, this is from Joran's perspective...so you have to read between the lines...if Bozeman didn't whack the sporter he will next time he gets the chance.

I think Sander and Koen were being implicated with this boat story that Joran had already told certain people...Jacobs and Straten...they were not saying anything and just letting the lower ALE carry on as if nothing was known.  Joran was trying to make Bozeman look bad in his book..but he just made me think what did Bozeman do that made Joran so nervous...I really should just take things at face value...I guess. MOO


LaLa's,
In my opinion, nothing that comes out of Aruba should be taken at face value ... I think that is why Simian and maybe Shango were posting the things they were.  You have done an outstanding job not only in unraveling some of their messages, but in keeping it all in perspective to what facts are known.  Thanks!!!
Chata


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 24, 2008, 06:02:20 PM
I don't know Chata...what do you think?  If you are looking for hard evidence in this thread your are in the wrong place.  We have tried to put as much fact as we can find with what is being said...but most of the time it is speculation on our part...then again most everything in this forum relies on someone's speculation.  Shango is cryptic...Simian a little less. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 24, 2008, 06:06:10 PM
I should really preview before I submit....I meant to add that I have only done what I can...there are so many others so much smarter than myself.  Thanks for the compliment.  Post more in here...we get lonely some days.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 24, 2008, 07:13:55 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open?
Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths.
Tell the Cowboys!
The Arawaks are hiding the path to the Maze for the Babylonians.

Lamb and the Elder are stepping stones into the fetid pool of deception.

Just a farfetched thought i googled "doolhof"(maze in dutch) and "aruba"

There was a maze at the church in aruba but that was made after may 29 th

but this also came up with this book: "Spoken en goudzoekers" (Ghosts and golddiggers)
http://biblioteca.arubahost.com/index.php3?h=178&maand=02-2007

Its a story about kids that have adventures on the island

it says:Bij een ander nachtelijk avontuur, tijdens een kampeerweek op het rif bij Savaneta, vallen ze in handen van cocaïnesmokkelaars en worden ontvoerd!Ook gaan ze op zoek naar de goudschat die volgens een legende verborgen ligt in de grotten van Rooi Taki. Het wordt een bloedstollende tocht door de doolhof  van onderaardse gangen en spelonken, waar achter iedere bocht nieuw gevaar dreigt

short translation: During a nightly adventure whilst on a camping trip at the reef of savaneta they fall into the hands of cocaine smugglers and are abducted. They also go looking for the treasure which according to legend is hidden in the caves of Rooi Taki. A thrilling journey through the maze of underground corridors follows.

Rooi Taki is a place on the island. It s probably nothing but maybe someone s familiar with the place


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 24, 2008, 10:24:55 PM
Caps....I've been googling away and I bet you know what this means...TIA

Of course I don't mind Lala's...

Responsive to Request 41
+ Name: Jorge Porras Sanches

Date: 21 June 2005 / 14:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Juan Boezem / Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement






CAPS
Do you know who this person is? 
Which one

Johny Erasmus:

Johny work for Sonesta Hotel in Aruba. He hanga out a lot in the Casinos.
Jaun Boezem: is being check....I know his brother is a KIA Guard



Caps no way Erasmus works with Sonesta.  He was ALE and taking statements from this guy Sanches. He and Bozeman were both ALE.  Please recheck your sources. TIA


Yep Jiame is a Cop is a Cop and his cousin Jaime that is also Jaime works at the Hotel.

But the question is the mistery Snaches that is not on aruba no more and is now in Palm Beach.

Remeber my fellow monkeys, the Riddle is two stories in one but related.

The Natalee and the Nelson O./AHATA.

Remember there is
2 cowboys, 2 lamb, 2 Ditryhand exept that Dirtyhand and Dirty Hand are explicit separated. etc.





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 24, 2008, 10:45:57 PM
Caps....I've been googling away and I bet you know what this means...TIA

Of course I don't mind Lala's...

Responsive to Request 41
+ Name: Jorge Porras Sanches

Date: 21 June 2005 / 14:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Juan Boezem / Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement






CAPS
Do you know who this person is? 
Which one

Johny Erasmus:

Johny work for Sonesta Hotel in Aruba. He hanga out a lot in the Casinos.
Jaun Boezem: is being check....I know his brother is a KIA Guard



Caps no way Erasmus works with Sonesta.  He was ALE and taking statements from this guy Sanches. He and Bozeman were both ALE.  Please recheck your sources. TIA


Last Name:Porras
First Name:Jorge A   
Date of Birth:12/30/1982
Place of Birth:Caracas, Venezuela
Current Address:Rondweg 21, Aruba


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 24, 2008, 10:52:50 PM
Caps....I've been googling away and I bet you know what this means...TIA

Of course I don't mind Lala's...

Responsive to Request 41
+ Name: Jorge Porras Sanches

Date: 21 June 2005 / 14:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Juan Boezem / Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement






CAPS
Do you know who this person is? 
Which one

Johny Erasmus:

Johny work for Sonesta Hotel in Aruba. He hanga out a lot in the Casinos.
Jaun Boezem: is being check....I know his brother is a KIA Guard



Caps no way Erasmus works with Sonesta.  He was ALE and taking statements from this guy Sanches. He and Bozeman were both ALE.  Please recheck your sources. TIA


Last Name:Porras
First Name:Jorge A   
Date of Birth:12/30/1982
Place of Birth:Caracas, Venezuela
Current Address:Rondweg 21, Aruba


The Mother is living at the same Address, there is no info on the Father

Last name:Porras Rodriguez,
Born: Sanchez
First Name: Josefa O   
Date Of Birth: 1/9/1945,
Current Address: Rondweg 21, Aruba



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 25, 2008, 12:06:34 AM
The problem with the name is the Sanchez.

Porros as a last name exist

Sanchez as a Lastname with Jorge as First name but no Porros --NONE

This name must have been made up by someone to protect something.

will check one more datamine.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on February 25, 2008, 03:23:09 AM
The problem with the name is the Sanchez.

Porros as a last name exist

Sanchez as a Lastname with Jorge as First name but no Porros --NONE

This name must have been made up by someone to protect something.

will check one more datamine.


CapsLockWizard,
I haven't been able to spend as much time here as I'd like lately.  I just wanted to say THANKS! for coming here and helping us.  I really do appreciate all you've done and are doing to help us make sense of all of this....and I don't know if you saw the compliment I gave the other day so I'll say it again.....I love that avatar!  It's COOL!
TM


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 04:57:12 AM
Caps…..


There is this person on the Discovery Log since the mother has this name as well. And there is also a ‘Daury Rodriguez’ … LOL

Name: Luis Guillermo Rodriguez
Date:22 July 2005
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs, Zoraida De Cuba
Description: witness statement

Responsive to Request 41 + Name: Jorge Porras Sanches 

Caps…I am still not sure what the ‘responsive to request 41’ means.   TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 08:05:46 AM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open?
Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths.
Tell the Cowboys!
The Arawaks are hiding the path to the Maze for the Babylonians.

Lamb and the Elder are stepping stones into the fetid pool of deception.

Just a farfetched thought i googled "doolhof"(maze in dutch) and "aruba"

There was a maze at the church in aruba but that was made after may 29 th
but this also came up with this book: "Spoken en goudzoekers" (Ghosts and golddiggers)
http://biblioteca.arubahost.com/index.php3?h=178&maand=02-2007

Its a story about kids that have adventures on the island

it says:Bij een ander nachtelijk avontuur, tijdens een kampeerweek op het rif bij Savaneta, vallen ze in handen van cocaïnesmokkelaars en worden ontvoerd!Ook gaan ze op zoek naar de goudschat die volgens een legende verborgen ligt in de grotten van Rooi Taki. Het wordt een bloedstollende tocht door de doolhof  van onderaardse gangen en spelonken, waar achter iedere bocht nieuw gevaar dreigt

short translation: During a nightly adventure whilst on a camping trip at the reef of savaneta they fall into the hands of cocaine smugglers and are abducted. They also go looking for the treasure which according to legend is hidden in the caves of Rooi Taki. A thrilling journey through the maze of underground corridors follows.

Rooi Taki is a place on the island. It s probably nothing but maybe someone s familiar with the place



JE...do you know what church this was? there is a picture of Freddy in a church and also a post from one of the students that stayed to search for Natalee that said they were searching a church where Natalee eas belived to be.  TIA



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 25, 2008, 09:04:07 AM
MUM it was the Alto Vista Chapel there's more info here

http://olgathetravelingbra.blogspot.com/2007/12/feeling-rummy-in-aruba.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 25, 2008, 09:07:22 AM
Here ' s some more info

http://www.newdayherald.org/template.php3?ID=704


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 09:16:02 AM


FREDDY – Is he the 5th. Suspect?

Revised as I think Tamikosmom has found the missing pieces of the puzzle.

I have inserted two entries which I believe show that Freddy was indeed a suspect some time between June 16th. And 28th. 2005 in the Natalee Holloway case.


Reply #29 on: Yesterday at 11:13:51 AM quote Tamiksmom»   
 

Logic implies that Freddy Arambatzis 6th and 7th declarations ... the declaration that affirms Joran van der Sloot's words in the Peter Devries' video recording ... are missing.

I hope John Q. Kelly is looking into this.

Janet

+++++++++++++


FREDDY ARAMBATZIS

Joran van der Sloot
De Zaak Natalee Holloway


Page 160/161

After Freddy's second statement on June 13th at 18:30, in which he keeps insisting that I told him the first story already on May 30th, the police confront us as best friends with each other.  Some further statements follow after that.  In the end Freddy states in his 6th and 7th statements that I have told him that Natalee went unconscious several times and did not regain consciousness at a certain moment, that I tried to wake her up by shaking her but that but this also did not work.

Unofficial Engish translation

+++++++++++

Phil McGraw Disclosure Log
Name: Freddy Alexander Arambatzis
Date: 12 June 2005 / 11:05
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Juan Boezem
Description: witness statement of Joran van der Sloot's neighbor/friend
 
Name: loran van der Sloot & Freddy Arambatzis
Date; 13 June 2005118:30
Pages: 2
Writer/lnitiator: Dennis Jacobs I Juan Boezem
Description: transcript of a face to face meeting
 
Name: Freddy Alexander Arambaizis
Date: 13 June 2005 / 17:00
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator. Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement
 
Name: Freddy Alexander Arambatzis
Date: 16 June 2005115:30
Pages: 8
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement

Name: Freddy Zedan
Date:17 Juni 2005
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs, Eric Soemers
Description: witness statement

Name: Karen Martina
Date: 23 June 2005113:55
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs / Juan Boezem
Description: witness statement by a friend of Van der Sloot and Arrambatzis

Name: Carmen Aurora Jacopucci
Date: 28 June 2005 / 15:55
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs /Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement by a fried of Van der Sloot and Araambatzis

Name: Freddy Alexander Zedan Arambatzis
Date:28 June 2005 / 14:25
Pages: 11
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Kelly & Haydee Nadal
Description: witness statement
 
Name: Freddy Zedan Arrambatzis
Date: 1 July 2005
Pages: 9
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Haydee Azucena
Description: witness statement
 
Name: Freddy Zedan Arrambatzis
Date:20 July 2005
Pages: 4
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs, Eric Soemers
Description: witness statement
 
Name: Freddy Alenxander Arambatzis
Date: 10 February 2006/17:15
63
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs /Eric Soemers
Description: interrogation of a suspect
Responsive to Request 41

        +++++++++++++++++++++++


Joran refused to give a statement in the morning of 6/24 until his Dad is released.

Joran then comes back in the evening and the talk is all about Karen.(There are two statements at the link below)

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/police_documents/joran624.htm




Page 160 ..from Book

You are informing me that Freddy has stated that I told him the first
story on May 30th 2005 in the afternoon. In response to your question if that is true I answer you that this could be true. You are informing me that Freddy is stating that I told him Natalee went unconscious several times on the way to the beach of the Marriott Hotel. That she at a certain moment did not regain consciousness and that we have left her on the beach. I don't know what to answer to this, because according to me, I did not tell the story to Freddy this way.

That Freddy has stated that we did not know what to do when she did not recover and that we then left her on the beach and that I left my sport
shoes behind, that is not correct.  This did not happen this way. I have left my sport shoes at the Marriott beach. I think Freddy did not correctly understand what I told him.


Jossy and statement here:

http://blogsfornatalee.com/2005/08/26/freddie-locoman-pimp-questioned-before-sells-sex-video/


In this interview Jossy Mansur confirms Freddie Arambatzis-Zedan is now being held in prison. Mansur explains that he takes sexual pictures of “unsuspecting” girls and then sells it. The girls are apparently aware and okay with the picture taking, however not with the distribution of them. No offense but I think if you allow someone to take a picture of you, especially one that claims to be “Locoman Pimp”, you should be well aware of his intent. Mansur says this guy was held in the beginning of the investigation and obviously the media was not made aware of this.  Jossy says he is probably being held because of a false alibi for Joran van der Sloot he initially gave police.

DOWNLOAD and view video here.

THE FIFTH SUSPECT

1…Joran

2….Deepak

3…Satish

4…Steve Croes….AM of 6/17/2005

5…Freddy….before 1.55 PM…6/23/2005…per Karen’s statement

6...Paulus van der Sloot…….6/23/2005…..in the nightly hours….

++++++++++


Merian Ernest Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:07 pm Post subject:

The mysterious hand...
See the hand. On the infamous picture in C&C. The boy in the middle and the Hindus on each
side.

Whose hand is on the shoulder of the Hindu on he left? Somebody is missing on this picture.
Maybe somebody was placed on this picture?

It seems more people are vanishing in this case.


Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject:

Who framed who?
Take a close look at the famous picture.

Deepak, Joran and Satish at C&C. Whose hand is on Satish's shoulder? Take another look.
A really good look.

It can never be the hand of any of the three.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 09:19:26 AM
MUM it was the Alto Vista Chapel there's more info here

http://olgathetravelingbra.blogspot.com/2007/12/feeling-rummy-in-aruba.html

Thanks....JE...That is the one that the MB student said that they were searching around. IIRC it was early June. I will see if I saved it....LOL...in all my Freddy docs....otherwise I will have to search the thread....big..LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 09:29:35 AM
This was the earlier post I made on 1/11/2008...


UNCAPHER:  Well, normally, they‘ve been searching from the lighthouse to the Alta Vista, which is a church which they think that Natalee may be.   And then this area, there is just a lot of brush and just a lot of ground to cover and also little homes that we may think that, you know, people don‘t have cable or—we can‘t imagine people not knowing about this, but we are just trying to go out there just to see if, you know, people haven‘t heard about it.

CACERES,  JAIME, Alberto Carrasquilia (DOB 4-25-85) - born in Columbia, E.P.I.(Sector Economico)  reportedly one of the PIMPS. Drives a 4 door green Honda Civic, 1997 or 1998. Nickname “Beto”   The places he frequents are "Carlos & Charlies", "Bahia", Tandra", "Cinema" and the beach near the big hotels. Met Joran through Freddy in 2004.  Worked at Caribbean Overseas (June 2005).  Lives in the hamlet of Alto Vista, Aruba.   Interviewed by ALE on two occasions, 6-17-05 and 8-30-05.Joran met Jaime through Freddy according to Joran’s book.


On the way to the Alto Vista Chapel there is a paved road on the left leading to a water tank on a hill. The view from there encompasses the entire north end of the island including a good panoramic view of the Palm Beach hotels, the lighthouse, and the golf course.

http://www.orrin.org/aruba/
Looks like the road to Alto vista is not paved. See picture at link above.

‘Built by Spanish missionaries in 1750, services are still conducted in this little yellow chapel that is considered to be the first church...’

Looks more gold in this pic.

http://hotels.about.com/od/aruba/ig/Aruba-Pictures/Chapel-of-Alto-Vista.htm





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 09:35:04 AM
Mum
Very good work!  Yes, I think Freddy was the 5th...still trying to place him as meeting Natalee earlier.  We really need to find out if he was working anywhere near the Marriott that night.  I was just thinking about the two witnesses that we think provided the alibi.  What if Freddy was having friends over at his place near Joran's apartment?  It was just a couple of girls and they were just sitting around talking or whatever when Joran calls him or what if Freddy had a room somewhere in a hotel, such as, the Marriott and Joran just walked up and found Freddy to help him?  The chance of him being seen would be a good reason to claim a phone call being made at the pay phone. If we could just get a look at those PV's this entire 5th person would most likely be settled.  The alibi was so tight because those two girls said Freddy was with them all night.  Hmmmmm.  It's beginning to make even more sense now.  Anita would want to know what he said in order to keep Joran straight on his lies...goes back to her knowing it all from the very first.

Clink, clink, snap, snap...the pieces are falling into place.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 09:37:06 AM
This was the earlier post I made on 1/11/2008...


UNCAPHER:  Well, normally, they‘ve been searching from the lighthouse to the Alta Vista, which is a church which they think that Natalee may be.   And then this area, there is just a lot of brush and just a lot of ground to cover and also little homes that we may think that, you know, people don‘t have cable or—we can‘t imagine people not knowing about this, but we are just trying to go out there just to see if, you know, people haven‘t heard about it.

CACERES,  JAIME, Alberto Carrasquilia (DOB 4-25-85) - born in Columbia, E.P.I.(Sector Economico)  reportedly one of the PIMPS. Drives a 4 door green Honda Civic, 1997 or 1998. Nickname “Beto”   The places he frequents are "Carlos & Charlies", "Bahia", Tandra", "Cinema" and the beach near the big hotels. Met Joran through Freddy in 2004.  Worked at Caribbean Overseas (June 2005).  Lives in the hamlet of Alto Vista, Aruba.   Interviewed by ALE on two occasions, 6-17-05 and 8-30-05.Joran met Jaime through Freddy according to Joran’s book.


On the way to the Alto Vista Chapel there is a paved road on the left leading to a water tank on a hill. The view from there encompasses the entire north end of the island including a good panoramic view of the Palm Beach hotels, the lighthouse, and the golf course.

http://www.orrin.org/aruba/
Looks like the road to Alto vista is not paved. See picture at link above.

‘Built by Spanish missionaries in 1750, services are still conducted in this little yellow chapel that is considered to be the first church...’

Looks more gold in this pic.

http://hotels.about.com/od/aruba/ig/Aruba-Pictures/Chapel-of-Alto-Vista.htm





Remember the photos of the gate that was near a grotto?  Is that near this place?  My geography is always confused when it comes to Aruba.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 09:45:05 AM
Mum
Very good work!  Yes, I think Freddy was the 5th...still trying to place him as meeting Natalee earlier.  We really need to find out if he was working anywhere near the Marriott that night.  I was just thinking about the two witnesses that we think provided the alibi.  What if Freddy was having friends over at his place near Joran's apartment?  It was just a couple of girls and they were just sitting around talking or whatever when Joran calls him or what if Freddy had a room somewhere in a hotel, such as, the Marriott and Joran just walked up and found Freddy to help him?  The chance of him being seen would be a good reason to claim a phone call being made at the pay phone. If we could just get a look at those PV's this entire 5th person would most likely be settled.  The alibi was so tight because those two girls said Freddy was with them all night.  Hmmmmm.  It's beginning to make even more sense now.  Anita would want to know what he said in order to keep Joran straight on his lies...goes back to her knowing it all from the very first.

Clink, clink, snap, snap...the pieces are falling into place.

Lala's....When I saw Tamikosmom's post yesterday on NAH it hit me. I looked at those '6th and 7' statements in the book a few days back and nothing made sense. When Tamik posted that two statements appear to be missing, it clicked.

On 6/28...Lorenzo is questioned, right after Freddy...could he be part of the alibi?

Also I need to go back on that ASI student that was questioned three times...two were on the same day as Freddy....LOL...maybe all three... and I think Jacobs was in on two. Will see what I find.

The place is going to be the hard thing.

Where did Joran stay when he was in Aruba that time with Fabienne? Do you recall?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 09:50:20 AM
Lala's...the pics with the gate are back around page 25 or so...I'm not sure where it is. Do you want me to find them?

Alto Vista chapel is near the Natural Bridge.

I have been looking for a map as Freddy's Mon works at Bubali Sports Club and I was trying to find that and the Bird Sanctuary.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 09:56:35 AM
Merian Ernest Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:07 pm Post subject:

The mysterious hand...
See the hand. On the infamous picture in C&C. The boy in the middle and the Hindus on each
side.

Whose hand is on the shoulder of the Hindu on he left? Somebody is missing on this picture.
Maybe somebody was placed on this picture?

It seems more people are vanishing in this case.


Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject:

Who framed who?
Take a close look at the famous picture.

Deepak, Joran and Satish at C&C. Whose hand is on Satish's shoulder? Take another look.
A really good look.

It can never be the hand of any of the three.


Since we now know that Simian and Merian had the same email address...that confirms that they are either the very same person or at the least know each other.  I think they are the same person because of things Merian alludes to that are the same as Simian said in his posts. 

The "who framed who"  part has always had my attention...until now I could not understand it but since we have been working on the 5th suspect being Freddy...it now makes sense.  Did Freddy frame the 3 perps from the beginning or maybe it's more like blackmail?  Freddy is there and knows what happened...we know Joran claims she died on the beach...where was Joran and Natalee?  At a party perhaps in the hotel?  This takes us back to Tylergal's theory of a room being used.  Freddy was known to film underage girls...and didn't he work near the Marriott area? 

Now, going with Joran's story of her dying from some kind of seizure, then you could speculate that the Kalpoe's did indeed drop Joran and Natalee at the beach....after the party...she was in bad shape but they didn't realize it at the time.  Maybe they gave her too much of the drug.  Combine it with alcohol and pretty soon she's semi-conscious.  Something bad happened and it was Natalee's reaction to the drug and the resulting state she was in.  The plan was to leave her on the beach as they had done before, but she was in such a state when Joran was ready to leave her that he thought she was dead.  Panic time!

The Kalpoes know they left her on the beach and Freddy came to help.  The 5th suspect waltzed away because of his alibi....an alibi given by two girls that are most likely lying since they would be considered accomplices should anything be proven. Joran designed his story for Patrick to eliminate all involved including daddy that eventually came to clean up the mess.  It takes everyone out of the equation and gives Joran the leverage he needs to stay out of jail.  We never see those PV's and no one is the wiser. Interesting....indeed!

Good work! Mum.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 25, 2008, 09:59:25 AM
Maybe helpful
http://www.aruba-travelguide.com/googlemap/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 10:00:14 AM
Lala's...the pics with the gate are back around page 25 or so...I'm not sure where it is. Do you want me to find them?

Alto Vista chapel is near the Natural Bridge.

I have been looking for a map as Freddy's Mon works at Bubali Sports Club and I was trying to find that and the Bird Sanctuary.

I have been thinking about trying organize stuff in this thread with categories...what do you think? Don't know how to do it, but it would be nice if we had sections for each person that could be a part of the Simian/Shango/Merian/Shock riddles.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 10:12:40 AM
Lala's....When I saw Tamikosmom's post yesterday on NAH it hit me. I looked at those '6th and 7' statements in the book a few days back and nothing made sense. When Tamik posted that two statements appear to be missing, it clicked.

On 6/28...Lorenzo is questioned, right after Freddy...could he be part of the alibi?

Also I need to go back on that ASI student that was questioned three times...two were on the same day as Freddy....LOL...maybe all three... and I think Jacobs was in on two. Will see what I find.

The place is going to be the hard thing.

Where did Joran stay when he was in Aruba that time with Fabienne? Do you recall?


This has me thinking...maybe Lorenzo was mentioned or suspected in some way, as you said, in providing an alibi...or providing assistance.  We have no idea where Lorenzo was...maybe he being a shady character caused ALE to look at him first until Lorenzo was called in and questioned and then he provided an alibi for his whereabouts that night.  This could all be about who was where and the opportunity that night.  If we remove Lorenzo from the equation and leave Freddy...it is easier to fit...it would also fit with all those that were in Aruba suspecting Lorenzo and not Freddy.  Seems one was more suspicious since he already was known as the weird one...but look at Freddy's nickname....locoman..."wild and crazy"  without saying his name Simian may have told us from the beginning.   Loco=crazy.  Am I making any sense?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 10:21:34 AM
Lala's...the pics with the gate are back around page 25 or so...I'm not sure where it is. Do you want me to find them?

Alto Vista chapel is near the Natural Bridge.

I have been looking for a map as Freddy's Mon works at Bubali Sports Club and I was trying to find that and the Bird Sanctuary.

I have been thinking about trying organize stuff in this thread with categories...what do you think? Don't know how to do it, but it would be nice if we had sections for each person that could be a part of the Simian/Shango/Merian/Shock riddles.

Thank You Lala's....Freddy needs to tell the truth!

LOL...I have been thinking of making an index???? I scanned about 30 pages last week looking for something on GVC.

Does Shango mention a gate or a key?

Ayo rock formations/Casibari...back on page 25....will go to the link that JE posted...Thanks JE...

Do you remember what anidac posted last week about the green truck or SUV....back around page 100....LOL...

Santos had a green truck or his Dad did and I found this....

Leonardo Lopez Riviera          …6/27/2005    Jacobs...ISA student
                                           1/7/2005 …..Freddy same day-not Jacobs
                                           8/29/2005    Jacobs

CHATO   – aka Leonardo, Mexican, drives a green 4 door Ford pick-up truck.


YES Lala's...makes perfect sense to me.....



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 10:48:05 AM
Mum
I don't know if what I am talking about is in this thread or some other thread. LOL  I just remember the gate and someone bringing it to my attention.  It was a grotto area where they supposedly have parties or something.  I wish it was easier to search this forum.  Nothing I do helps me to find stuff anymore...there is a secret to it..but I haven't decoded the search secret yet and the PTB must not have it either. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 10:52:58 AM
Lala's...the pics with the gate are back around page 25 or so...I'm not sure where it is. Do you want me to find them?

Alto Vista chapel is near the Natural Bridge.

I have been looking for a map as Freddy's Mon works at Bubali Sports Club and I was trying to find that and the Bird Sanctuary.

I have been thinking about trying organize stuff in this thread with categories...what do you think? Don't know how to do it, but it would be nice if we had sections for each person that could be a part of the Simian/Shango/Merian/Shock riddles.

Thank You Lala's....Freddy needs to tell the truth!

LOL...I have been thinking of making an index???? I scanned about 30 pages last week looking for something on GVC.

Does Shango mention a gate or a key?

Ayo rock formations/Casibari...back on page 25....will go to the link that JE posted...Thanks JE...

Do you remember what anidac posted last week about the green truck or SUV....back around page 100....LOL...

Santos had a green truck or his Dad did and I found this....

Leonardo Lopez Riviera          …6/27/2005    Jacobs...ISA student
                                           1/7/2005 …..Freddy same day-not Jacobs
                                           8/29/2005    Jacobs

CHATO   – aka Leonardo, Mexican, drives a green 4 door Ford pick-up truck.


YES Lala's...makes perfect sense to me.....



We need to get this green truck to fit better in this scenario.  I am still trying to make the connection.  I was thinking maybe Freddy doesn't leave, but calls someone else to help with the body. Enter Steve Croes..he's close by on the beach somewhere...maybe. Then who would he call for a pickup?  I know I am venturing off the path here.  I am beginning to think that Paulus didn't come into play until that 4 AM stop at McDonald's.  That leaves time for hiding a body... waiting at the pond...cleaning a car...and making phone calls.  I do not think my first call would have been to my father...if said father was at home asleep.  It is more likely Joran did walk up to the Marriott looking for help...but not the kind you would expect..he was looking for disposal help instead.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 10:56:57 AM
Mum
I don't know if what I am talking about is in this thread or some other thread. LOL  I just remember the gate and someone bringing it to my attention.  It was a grotto area where they supposedly have parties or something.  I wish it was easier to search this forum.  Nothing I do helps me to find stuff anymore...there is a secret to it..but I haven't decoded the search secret yet and the PTB must not have it either. LOL


On page 25...Steve posted about...seems to be between the Natural Bridge and the Chapel...maybe it is what JE posted about this morning...
Rooi Taki....back on the last page

This is a good map...I think...

http://www.caribbean-on-line.com/islands/ar/armap.shtml



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 11:00:34 AM
 I will see if I can find what anidac posted about Santos and the green truck....I think I found the secret of the SM search!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on February 25, 2008, 11:08:37 AM
Merian Ernest Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:07 pm Post subject:

The mysterious hand...
See the hand. On the infamous picture in C&C. The boy in the middle and the Hindus on each
side.

Whose hand is on the shoulder of the Hindu on he left? Somebody is missing on this picture.
Maybe somebody was placed on this picture?

It seems more people are vanishing in this case.


Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject:

Who framed who?
Take a close look at the famous picture.

Deepak, Joran and Satish at C&C. Whose hand is on Satish's shoulder? Take another look.
A really good look.

It can never be the hand of any of the three.


Since we now know that Simian and Merian had the same email address...that confirms that they are either the very same person or at the least know each other.  I think they are the same person because of things Merian alludes to that are the same as Simian said in his posts. 

The "who framed who"  part has always had my attention...until now I could not understand it but since we have been working on the 5th suspect being Freddy...it now makes sense.  Did Freddy frame the 3 perps from the beginning or maybe it's more like blackmail?  Freddy is there and knows what happened...we know Joran claims she died on the beach...where was Joran and Natalee?  At a party perhaps in the hotel?  This takes us back to Tylergal's theory of a room being used.  Freddy was known to film underage girls...and didn't he work near the Marriott area? 

Now, going with Joran's story of her dying from some kind of seizure, then you could speculate that the Kalpoe's did indeed drop Joran and Natalee at the beach....after the party...she was in bad shape but they didn't realize it at the time.  Maybe they gave her too much of the drug.  Combine it with alcohol and pretty soon she's semi-conscious.  Something bad happened and it was Natalee's reaction to the drug and the resulting state she was in.  The plan was to leave her on the beach as they had done before, but she was in such a state when Joran was ready to leave her that he thought she was dead.  Panic time!

The Kalpoes know they left her on the beach and Freddy came to help.  The 5th suspect waltzed away because of his alibi....an alibi given by two girls that are most likely lying since they would be considered accomplices should anything be proven. Joran designed his story for Patrick to eliminate all involved including daddy that eventually came to clean up the mess.  It takes everyone out of the equation and gives Joran the leverage he needs to stay out of jail.  We never see those PV's and no one is the wiser. Interesting....indeed!

Good work! Mum.

That is Freddy's hand.  I have the whole picture.  Joran, according to him, (for what that is worth) returned Freddy's camera.  He must have been taking some pictures too.  Also, I doubt she looked "sweet" as they probably were rough with her.  That was thrown in to make it look like she passed away unharmed except forthe "seizure."  Each had their own lead parts in the murder and coverup.  Some parts crossed into the other.  They are so bound to each other through their murderous acts, they are unable to tell the truth, any of them.  ALSO:  According to Palus his two younger sones (both) were home and got on the school bus.  He also kept referring to when Anita went to the NL.  Not his and her trip, but HER trip.  That makes me think he never went at all.  She may have never gone for all we know.  Anita would more than likely help Joran just as quick as his father.
It was just too close to the end of a school year for her to have gone out of town for so many days.  The first words out of the mouth of the LIAR were:  "If mom had been home none of this would have happened."  Keeping in mind his whold account is nothing more than to lay the groundwork for his innocence, his MOM may have NOT been in the NL and knows, as does the two younger boys, EVERYTHING first hand, except the final disposition, and then maybe that.  They are all guilty of protecting the killers and attempting to blame the victim.  If they would do that than they are capable of the other as well.       Jack blue.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on February 25, 2008, 11:22:38 AM
Lala's...the pics with the gate are back around page 25 or so...I'm not sure where it is. Do you want me to find them?

Alto Vista chapel is near the Natural Bridge.

I have been looking for a map as Freddy's Mon works at Bubali Sports Club and I was trying to find that and the Bird Sanctuary.

Again I will say that is not a mystery, the hand.  I have the whole picture.
It IS Freddy's hand.   Also Freddy has a brother living in south Fla., an older one who looks nothing like Freddy.  He is a very nice looking young man who is an MC to the show's acts there at the nightclubs.  He lives, or at least did, a high lifestyle and is of the gay persuasion, according to reports.
The young man I am speaking of here is supposed to have connections to underworld figures, etc.  Jack b. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 11:24:03 AM
Lala's...still looking for the grren truck, but there were beach concerts during the afternoon at Moomba's...


Re: Soul Beach Music Festival  Moombas is where the "bands" are. The noise is unbearable from the Marriott down to the Radisson. It satrts on Thursday and goes through Sunday, every day from noon on!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 11:32:03 AM
This is probably nothing that can be of any help but it came to me in the last week or so:

Andre Santos, in his PV, he mentions his car being green & like a SUV type is inferred IIRC.

DK letter to Betty, alibi/BS letter references on their RIDE seeing a green SUV pulled over, think it was prior to the lighthouse.

Andre Santos refers to driving a vehicle but it wasn't his own.

Andre Santos is referenced to driving 5/30 his brother & himself to school in his father's truck.

Why wasn't Andre Santos driving around in his own vehicle?  Maybe nothing, just wanted to mention in case someone has researched & come to any conclusions of same.


Found it....was looking for anidac and it was Altruist...my apologies...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 11:55:25 AM
Lala's...the pics with the gate are back around page 25 or so...I'm not sure where it is. Do you want me to find them?

Alto Vista chapel is near the Natural Bridge.

I have been looking for a map as Freddy's Mon works at Bubali Sports Club and I was trying to find that and the Bird Sanctuary.

Again I will say that is not a mystery, the hand.  I have the whole picture.
It IS Freddy's hand.   Also Freddy has a brother living in south Fla., an older one who looks nothing like Freddy.  He is a very nice looking young man who is an MC to the show's acts there at the nightclubs.  He lives, or at least did, a high lifestyle and is of the gay persuasion, according to reports.
The young man I am speaking of here is supposed to have connections to underworld figures, etc.  Jack b. 

It never has been a mystery of the hand...we have known that hand was Freddy's from the beginning. There is lots of info on Freddy's brother in the NAH LCD threads.  Nothing new there...we have just now begun to make the 5th conncetion actually work. Freddy's brother, Ernesto has been on the radar in all the Brickell Bay discussions I have ever seen.  I don't know how to find all those posts either, most of them were between Rob and several other posters with much more knowledge than me. You are correct about Ernest's connections.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 12:13:09 PM
Lala's....I have to run down to my neighbours for coffee...when I get back I will see what I can find on Ernesto if you think we need to look at it.

I looked on the web a little while back and didn't find anything new.

I do remember discussions on the forum and could search there...

Hi 2NJ...could to see you!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 12:15:19 PM
Lala's....I have to run down to my neighbours for coffee...when I get back I will see what I can find on Ernesto if you think we need to look at it.

I looked on the web a little while back and didn't find anything new.

I do remember discussions on the forum and could search there...

Hi 2NJ...could to see you!


Since JackB mentioned it we need to give it another look. Thanks.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 25, 2008, 12:39:45 PM
LALA

I am check the name: I need his address if anyone has it

Need it to cross referance.

Freddy Arambatzis-Zedan

Zedan=0
Arambatzis=2


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on February 25, 2008, 12:43:00 PM
Ernesto Arambatzis
Freddy's brother/Nightclub owner/manager
200 14TH AVE Recorded: 03/12/2002
MIAMI, FL 33125


Guido Wever - model
Kelvin Osmond Hally (bad cops son)    - model
Ernesto (freddy's brother) - model

444 Brickell Ave.
Is the business address for Posner, Bang Bus, Ernesto (freddy's brother)
and Jossy Mansur.

701 Brickell is Aruba Aloe.

yntUltra Lounge
1921 Collins Ave.
MIAMI BEACH   FL   33139
Telephone: 786.276.6132
Fax: 786.276.6131



teamed with Mynt Lounge marketing director Ernesto Arambatzis
 http://www.bizbash.com/florida/newsletter/issue046.html

With or without the assistance of the moon this Wednesday night party, which Max co hosts with Ernesto Arambatzis,
http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2003/01-30-03/Nightlife.htm


Since I didn’t make an appearance at Skybar the previous week for Ernesto Arambatzis’ new party,
http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2003/03-06-03/Nightlife.htm


Creator Ernesto Arambatzis, president of Brainworks & Co.,
http://www.southbeach-usa.com/miami-beach-news/miami-beach-news-9.htm


Ernesto is also on the team at the Rok bar.
http://www.cooljunkie.com/clubs/girl_about_town_0517_location_miami_1603.html

Open House Jan. 7, 2005
hosted by Ernesto Arambatzis
http://www.cooljunkie.com/miami/open_house_venue_cafeteria_miami_19720.html


a site like Tickel for Miami:
http://www.buzznet.com/www/search/photos/Arambatzis/


The Marlin Hotel’s new owners are making quite a few changes with the historic hotel including transforming the lobby into a restaurant called REX.
On Tuesday night I joined a crowd of media types to sample the restaurants cuisine and check out the changes.
Ernesto Arambatzis
http://cubbywritesmiami.blogspot.com/

"You're either well connected, or you wait in line and pay your money," says Ernesto Arambatzis, a promoter of events at the Delano and Mynt, who entered clubland a decade ago through the modeling pipeline.
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/Issues/2004-02-26/news/feature.html
FEb. 26, 2004

___________________________________________________________-
Ernesto       Arambatzis             1994       Porlamar       NE       Venezuela
http://tinyurl.com/hzjel


From Grande's original post on SM, I traced back:


http://www.miami-dadeclerk.com/public-records/image.asp?page=1&cfn_master_id=17537889#image

http://www.miami-dadeclerk.com/civil/docketinfo.asp?pCase_Year=2005&pCase_Seq=9957&pCase_Code=FC&pCase_Loc=04&id=AAAA8tAAHAAAhW/AAb

There is a party promoter in Miami with the name, Ariel Stein, but I do not know if it is the same person.
http://www.cooljunkie.com/miami/automatic_slims_venue_automatic_slims_miami_8446.html
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/search/locations.php?oid=8112&locationSearch=1

The document shows Ernesto's date of birth as 8/18/76.








Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 25, 2008, 12:45:05 PM
LALA

I am check the name: I need his address if anyone has it

Need it to cross referance.

Freddy Arambatzis-Zedan

Zedan=0
Arambatzis=2

I don't think we have his address, all we know is that he lives near the Sloots somewhere in Montanja.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 25, 2008, 12:52:40 PM
MONTANJA 62 was the address listed for the mother in the 2005 chamber directory.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 25, 2008, 12:53:21 PM
LALA:

Only Freddy living near the sloot is

Bordes   Freddy   8/12/1958   Utrecht   Montanja 34

older man DUTCH. I am wondering that these names are all made up as a smokescreen



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 25, 2008, 12:56:34 PM
MONTANJA 39-F from the 2004 directory.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 25, 2008, 01:00:15 PM
LALA:

Only Freddy living near the sloot is

Bordes   Freddy   8/12/1958   Utrecht   Montanja 34

older man DUTCH. I am wondering that these names are all made up as a smokescreen



I doubt there will be a listing in Freddy's name.  Will be in the name of his parents either under Zedan or Arambatzis. 

VMS just posted Montanja 39-F

Edited to add:  I believe Sasha is Freddy's stepsister.  Sasha's name is Sasha Rodriguez (I think).  Trying to work and think at the same time, lol.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 25, 2008, 01:01:35 PM
this is from the ...... official  database  hmmmmm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 25, 2008, 01:10:36 PM
wel look at this

Lima                             Montanja 39C
Lima                             Montanja 39C
Lima                             Montanja 39C
Paramaribo                Montanja 39C
Aruba                             Montanja 39C
distrikt Commewijne   Montanja 39C
Aruba                            Montanja 39E
Los Taques               Montanja 39G
Punta Cardon               Montanja 39G
Eindhoven              Montanja 39G
Utrecht                           Montanja 39G



Where is the F adress ????

this is a current database


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 25, 2008, 01:12:16 PM
This remind me of the Steve Croes Address: Shiribana 3-I and did not show up


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 25, 2008, 01:16:24 PM
This remind me of the Steve Croes Address: Shiribana 3-I and did not show up


Caps,

Did you try Montanja 62 ?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 25, 2008, 01:21:30 PM
Canlas   Teoderico   7/1/1951   Angeles City   Montanja 62
Lacle   Mateo   9/21/1923   Aruba   Montanja 62A
Cratsz   Philip S   9/28/1971   Curacao   Montanja 62C
Cratsz, geb. Ras   Rita E   2/8/1965   Aruba   Montanja 62C
Jansen   Irenaeus PT   7/6/1960   Rotterdam   Montanja 62D
Jansen, geb. Bouwman   Vendetta XC   11/22/1955   Aruba   Montanja 62D
Wu   Huan Z   7/10/1949   Guangdong   Montanja 62E
Wu   Wen G   4/14/1976   Guangdong   Montanja 62E
Wu   Wen Y   11/8/1973   Guangdong   Montanja 62E
Wu, geb. Liu   Yue Y   11/2/1949   Guangdong   Montanja 62E


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 01:23:03 PM
Thanks Kermit, Klaas and VMS.  I knew someone had the info handy.  I should have known it was the little froggy that could help us.  :wink2:

CAPS
Freddy lived just down the street from Joran...he mentions it in something I have read...somewhere...at sometime. LOL



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 25, 2008, 01:24:44 PM
according to
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=255.0
it 39F and 39G


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 25, 2008, 01:25:07 PM
there is only 1 Address with Montanja 62

very strange.....hmmm




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 25, 2008, 01:30:27 PM
ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT

http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm
http://www.arubachamber.com/LC%20KLEIN%2005-06-2005.htm
http://www.arubachamber.com/LANDSCOURANT%20KLEIN-2006-2007.XLS

 :smt102


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 01:39:02 PM
I guess the next question is does the Rodriguez we have a statement from related or connected to Freddy?  Now, I wonder how we find that out?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on February 25, 2008, 01:39:11 PM
Thanks Kermit, Klaas and VMS.  I knew someone had the info handy.  I should have known it was the little froggy that could help us.  :wink2:

CAPS
Freddy lived just down the street from Joran...he mentions it in something I have read...somewhere...at sometime. LOL



Lala's -- I saw your post on the main Natalee thread.

What do you want in relation to Ernesto? I had ton's of stuff -- not sure if I can put my hands on it --posted it all here in the past.

Info on Ernesto seemed to 'dry up' in 2006.

He was working at 'mynt lounge' on Miami Beach the last I knew -- and that was 2006.

Ernesto has either changed his name -- or has really gone underground (which can't really be a possibility due to how he makes his living).

I somewhere have a copy of his finalized 'divorce' filing. It was to a woman.

I also have a copy of a 'discharged' complaint -- Florida statute of 'domestic violence' which means you are related or are sharing the same living space -- filed against Ernesto by a male friend.

(either the ex wife or the ex roommate is 'Ariel Stein' -- can't remember right now  ::MonkeyLaugh::)

Anyhow -- it will probably take me a bit to dig the stuff out so I was curious if you had something specific in mind.


BTW you will see a LOT of things in Miami as 'Brickell'. You will even find many of the real estate holding with "brickell' in the title related to POSNER.

POSNER is Victor Posner. Passed away. Head of Arby's, Sharon Steel, and a few other conglomerates.

NO RELATION to Michael Posner. I've mentioned that before -- not that anyone cares.  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 25, 2008, 01:41:58 PM
ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT

http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm
http://www.arubachamber.com/LC%20KLEIN%2005-06-2005.htm
http://www.arubachamber.com/LANDSCOURANT%20KLEIN-2006-2007.XLS

 :smt102

The Aruba Chamber database show an address of a person that I know that his business is closed since 2004
The database is almost 4yr old.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on February 25, 2008, 01:47:21 PM
Lala's...the pics with the gate are back around page 25 or so...I'm not sure where it is. Do you want me to find them?

Alto Vista chapel is near the Natural Bridge.

I have been looking for a map as Freddy's Mon works at Bubali Sports Club and I was trying to find that and the Bird Sanctuary.

I have been thinking about trying organize stuff in this thread with categories...what do you think? Don't know how to do it, but it would be nice if we had sections for each person that could be a part of the Simian/Shango/Merian/Shock riddles.

Thank You Lala's....Freddy needs to tell the truth!

LOL...I have been thinking of making an index???? I scanned about 30 pages last week looking for something on GVC.

Does Shango mention a gate or a key?

Ayo rock formations/Casibari...back on page 25....will go to the link that JE posted...Thanks JE...

Do you remember what anidac posted last week about the green truck or SUV....back around page 100....LOL...

Santos had a green truck or his Dad did and I found this....

Leonardo Lopez Riviera          …6/27/2005    Jacobs...ISA student
                                           1/7/2005 …..Freddy same day-not Jacobs
                                           8/29/2005    Jacobs

CHATO   – aka Leonardo, Mexican, drives a green 4 door Ford pick-up truck.


YES Lala's...makes perfect sense to me.....



We need to get this green truck to fit better in this scenario.  I am still trying to make the connection.  I was thinking maybe Freddy doesn't leave, but calls someone else to help with the body. Enter Steve Croes..he's close by on the beach somewhere...maybe. Then who would he call for a pickup?  I know I am venturing off the path here.  I am beginning to think that Paulus didn't come into play until that 4 AM stop at McDonald's.  That leaves time for hiding a body... waiting at the pond...cleaning a car...and making phone calls.  I do not think my first call would have been to my father...if said father was at home asleep.  It is more likely Joran did walk up to the Marriott looking for help...but not the kind you would expect..he was looking for disposal help instead.

Steve Croes good friend GVC is Security and has access to all kinds of vehicles, boats, and ATVs.  Who would notices cops going out on a boat or looking as if they are patroling.  Of course GVC's parents would alibi him, they would lose everything if the company vehicles and employee (son) were fingered in this.  They could be sued up the wazoo.       jack blue


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 01:50:28 PM
Thanks Kermit, Klaas and VMS.  I knew someone had the info handy.  I should have known it was the little froggy that could help us.  :wink2:

CAPS
Freddy lived just down the street from Joran...he mentions it in something I have read...somewhere...at sometime. LOL



Lala's -- I saw your post on the main Natalee thread.

What do you want in relation to Ernesto? I had ton's of stuff -- not sure if I can put my hands on it --posted it all here in the past.

Info on Ernesto seemed to 'dry up' in 2006.

He was working at 'mynt lounge' on Miami Beach the last I knew -- and that was 2006.

Ernesto has either changed his name -- or has really gone underground (which can't really be a possibility due to how he makes his living).

I somewhere have a copy of his finalized 'divorce' filing. It was to a woman.

I also have a copy of a 'discharged' complaint -- Florida statute of 'domestic violence' which means you are related or are sharing the same living space -- filed against Ernesto by a male friend.

(either the ex wife or the ex roommate is 'Ariel Stein' -- can't remember right now  ::MonkeyLaugh::)

Anyhow -- it will probably take me a bit to dig the stuff out so I was curious if you had something specific in mind.


BTW you will see a LOT of things in Miami as 'Brickell'. You will even find many of the real estate holding with "brickell' in the title related to POSNER.

POSNER is Victor Posner. Passed away. Head of Arby's, Sharon Steel, and a few other conglomerates.

NO RELATION to Michael Posner. I've mentioned that before -- not that anyone cares.  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Thanks!  I think what we are looking at is Freddy and Ernesto's connections.  I know we have discussed it before, but Mum probably hasn't seen it and most likely the newbies either. 

Is the Brickell Bay stuff connected to Ernesto or do I have that confused?  Thanks for the Posner info...I had forgotten that one.

Please post what you have if it's not too much trouble...anything for reference helps us when we are digging around trying to make connections. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 01:52:52 PM
ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT

http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm
http://www.arubachamber.com/LC%20KLEIN%2005-06-2005.htm
http://www.arubachamber.com/LANDSCOURANT%20KLEIN-2006-2007.XLS

 :smt102

The Aruba Chamber database show an address of a person that I know that his business is closed since 2004
The database is almost 4yr old.

Does your Chamber of Commerce work like ours here in USA?  Ours lists only businesses that are associated with certain persons and not info on every individual in the area.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 01:58:01 PM
Strange my doc's say it's locked for editing, but it will let me read my own notes...LOL...maybe we are onto something!

Sorry but just copied and pasted....will see if I can find anything else



ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT   LILIAN REGINA   MONTANJA   62   NOORD
            
MONTANJA   62   NOORD


ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT   LILIAN REGINA   MONTANJA   39-F


Freddy's mom is a "Supervisory Director" for the Bubali Sports Club located in Noord. Bubali is also the location of the Bird Sanctuary which has 2 ponds.
Here is the complete name of Freddy's mom: Freddy's mom is a "Supervisory Director" for the Bubali Sports Club located in Noord. Bubali is also the location of the Bird Sanctuary which has 2 ponds.
Here is the complete name of Freddy's mom:
LILIAN REGINA ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT
It appears that she has been married twice. I don't know if Rodriguez or Albert is her maiden name. Since she is listed as being "Dutch" I would think that "Albert" was probably her maiden name....but, I am not sure. Can anybody help me out on this?
I have always thought "Zedan" was Freddy's last name until I found this other info. Could it be his middle name?
You can find this information at:
http://206.48.100.138/registry/registry_search.afp
Type in: S.C. BUBALI where it says TRADE NAME & then click search.
Posted by: Shelly | Monday, August 29, 2005

LILIAN REGINA ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT
It appears that she has been married twice. I don't know if Rodriguez or Albert is her maiden name. Since she is listed as being "Dutch" I would think that "Albert" was probably her maiden name....but, I am not sure. Can anybody help me out on this?
I have always thought "Zedan" was Freddy's last name until I found this other info. Could it be his middle name?
You can find this information at:
http://206.48.100.138/registry/registry_search.afp
Type in: S.C. BUBALI where it says TRADE NAME & then click search.
Posted by: Shelly | Monday, August 29, 2005





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 25, 2008, 02:02:27 PM
Here is the complete name of Freddy's mom:
LILIAN REGINA ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on February 25, 2008, 02:05:43 PM
 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

Well, Mum -- if Ernesto is using one of his mother's names of Rodriguez -- I'll never be able to find him amongst the millions of Rodriguez's here in Miami  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Sorry -- just a little Miami humour  ::MonkeyTongue::

Lala's -- I will look for what I have on Ernesto and post it -- probably later this afternoon or evening (or when I can find it).

IMO -- there is no connection with Brickell Bay and Ernesto. I think Grande might have a different opinion, however not sure where he's posting his stuff these days. I know search is difficult -- but maybe you can find his postings on the SM forum??


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 25, 2008, 02:09:34 PM
another arambatzis in venezuela 52 years old male
http://www.esdata.info/centro/38162/electores/1


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 25, 2008, 02:18:56 PM
ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT

http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm
http://www.arubachamber.com/LC%20KLEIN%2005-06-2005.htm
http://www.arubachamber.com/LANDSCOURANT%20KLEIN-2006-2007.XLS

 :smt102

The Aruba Chamber database show an address of a person that I know that his business is closed since 2004
The database is almost 4yr old.

Does your Chamber of Commerce work like ours here in USA?  Ours lists only businesses that are associated with certain persons and not info on every individual in the area.

Yes, it only state a bussiness to a person.. if the Bussiness is closed, the database show it up as a non-active bussiness.

if the bussiness move, the address also is change. but I see several names that do not have a bussiness no more in the database......

the GDI is a new database of where every house is listed and the current address of a person is and so can locate the house.

in the case of Steve Croes, THe address he mention is where his Telepone calling businesss is register is Shiribana 3-I

In GDI when search, do not exist but the map show the house.

The map Show all the house location but the Shi3-I is not in the database....strange....but it does exist in real life. but you can not SQL it.

This make me believe that the land/house on the MAP is not link to anyone. all other land/house location is link to an Address. exept this one. it was the SHI-3I that cought my attention.

Strange.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 02:19:49 PM
LOL...Sharon


Freddy is Venezuelan...

ARAMBATZIS PEREZ ROBBY GERARDUS from JE’s Link


From Dr Phil docs…

Name: Luis Guillermo Rodriguez
Date:22 July 2005
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs, Zoraida De Cuba
Description: witness statement


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on February 25, 2008, 02:21:11 PM
::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

Well, Mum -- if Ernesto is using one of his mother's names of Rodriguez -- I'll never be able to find him amongst the millions of Rodriguez's here in Miami  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Sorry -- just a little Miami humour  ::MonkeyTongue::

Lala's -- I will look for what I have on Ernesto and post it -- probably later this afternoon or evening (or when I can find it).

IMO -- there is no connection with Brickell Bay and Ernesto. I think Grande might have a different opinion, however not sure where he's posting his stuff these days. I know search is difficult -- but maybe you can find his postings on the SM forum??
  Try Plain View Fla that is where the Hdqtrs of some of the Bricknell bus is located from what I understand.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on February 25, 2008, 02:21:19 PM
Ernesto Arambatzis

Nicola Siervo wants an affluent, New York style party populated by models, photographers and other members of the modeling industry for his Monday and Friday night parties at the Metro Kitchen and Bar in the Astor. Who do you hire to promote the party? Answer: someone who has experience in both the nightlife and production arenas: Ernesto Arambatzis.

Ernesto started his career under the wings of Chris Paciello, Ingrid Casareas, and Gerry Kelly, working as the “fashion director” for Bar Room and Shadow Lounge. Then he took a break and became a men’s model booker for Ford Model’s “new faces” section. 

Well, break’s over. Besides the Monday and Friday gig at Metro, he also promotes the already popular Sky Bar at the Shore Club on Saturdays and the newly opened restro-lounge Sabor on Thursdays. He also plans to promote the Pure Lounge above Joia—once its completed that is.

“I love the whole restaurant and lounge thing,” he says. “I have free dinners almost every night.”

 

http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2003/01-23-03/firststoryfrontpage.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on February 25, 2008, 02:31:41 PM
Ernesto Arambatzis

Nicola Siervo wants an affluent, New York style party populated by models, photographers and other members of the modeling industry for his Monday and Friday night parties at the Metro Kitchen and Bar in the Astor. Who do you hire to promote the party? Answer: someone who has experience in both the nightlife and production arenas: Ernesto Arambatzis.

Ernesto started his career under the wings of Chris Paciello, Ingrid Casareas, and Gerry Kelly, working as the “fashion director” for Bar Room and Shadow Lounge. Then he took a break and became a men’s model booker for Ford Model’s “new faces” section. 

Well, break’s over. Besides the Monday and Friday gig at Metro, he also promotes the already popular Sky Bar at the Shore Club on Saturdays and the newly opened restro-lounge Sabor on Thursdays. He also plans to promote the Pure Lounge above Joia—once its completed that is.

“I love the whole restaurant and lounge thing,” he says. “I have free dinners almost every night.”

 

http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2003/01-23-03/firststoryfrontpage.htm

Guido, his brother and GVC did some modeling from what I understand.  For whom, I do not know.  From information I have seen Guido and his older brother are of the gay persuasion, as for GVC, I do not know this.  He is a nice enough looking kid that would look like he could model.    jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 02:33:23 PM
Mirian said..more people are disappearing in this case...

All I found a while ago on Ernesto was old....thought I saw somewhere on the forum a while ago that Ernesto had moved to New York, but don't quote me on that.

A poster asked about a month ago if Freddy was in the US now????

Where is Freddy....and why did ALE sneak him out the back door when he and the Kalpoes were released?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 25, 2008, 02:33:56 PM
Here is the complete name of Freddy's mom:
LILIAN REGINA ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT

I'm pretty sure the address is:

62 Montanja


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on February 25, 2008, 02:50:53 PM
::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

Well, Mum -- if Ernesto is using one of his mother's names of Rodriguez -- I'll never be able to find him amongst the millions of Rodriguez's here in Miami  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Sorry -- just a little Miami humour  ::MonkeyTongue::

Lala's -- I will look for what I have on Ernesto and post it -- probably later this afternoon or evening (or when I can find it).

IMO -- there is no connection with Brickell Bay and Ernesto. I think Grande might have a different opinion, however not sure where he's posting his stuff these days. I know search is difficult -- but maybe you can find his postings on the SM forum??
  Try Plain View Fla that is where the Hdqtrs of some of the Bricknell bus is located from what I understand.

Interesting from Aruba Dirty Police:

continue to find documented evidence that clearly shows a link between Aruba and the North Valle Cartel. xxxxx recently reviewed some files regarding the North Valle Cartel in Aruba, and the US's attempts to stifle it's transport of Narcotics through Aruba to MIAMI. It seems the sole purpose of the Forward Operating Location at the Beatrix Airport in Aruba was to combat the Narco transit from Aruba to Florida.

This is where Plainview Florida Inc. comes in to play. The Saieh brothers, registered officers of Plainview, were recently added to the Department of the Treasury's SDNT list (known narco traffickers list) in June 2006. The other registered officers for Plainview are Staten Management of Curacao and Pedro Martin of the Terra Group.

Check out the Terra Group. These are some major players in the real estate development industry not only in the US but worldwide. They are currently ressurecting the skyscraper located at 900 Biscayne Drive, of which is likely funded with xxxxx Dollars.

Interestingly enough many if not all of the Saieh brothers business registrations in Florida have Pedro Martin listed as an officer as well.

xxxxxxxxxx purpose of filing FOI requests;xxxxxx will file a formal request on the Posner's from the Department of Justice as well as some other municipalities. Generally speaking once the request has been processed the corresponding department will send xxxxxx a projected cost to 'pull the files'.

Blackmore investments is the link between North Valle Cartel and the Saieh Brothers.

Pedro Martin is the link between the the Saieh Brothers (North Valley Cartel) and Miami along with Karen Overseas and other Florida registered corporations.

xxxxxx one document to date that would suggest the Posner's and Saieh's/Pedro Martin are associates. They also seem to use the same registered agent in Mark Bryn.

Along with that Plainview Florida, Inc. (Pedro Martin, Saieh Brothers, et. al) are just doors down from the Posners at 701 Brickell along with the other entities I will be showcasing.

It is only a matter of time before xxx uncovers more links some of which I would suggest will link right back to the Excelsior casino and perhaps the VDS' credit lines.

xxxxxxxx discussed my findings regarding Plantation Florida.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: martini on February 25, 2008, 02:54:54 PM
Who is Shango and Simian? Shango is an insider who has wasted energy, words and powers on not finding Justice for Natalee. Simian has wasted words and energy on misinformation to bring more misinformation to this case. Shango is not a God or mystic. If Shango has any energy left maybe in straight forward terms can enlighten us all, in the meantime I am no longer wasting my time with Shango or Simian's visions.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 02:56:52 PM
Sharon...have you ever looked for anything on Freddy's Dad?

I came up empty a few months back...TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on February 25, 2008, 02:59:21 PM
Mirian said..more people are disappearing in this case...

All I found a while ago on Ernesto was old....thought I saw somewhere on the forum a while ago that Ernesto had moved to New York, but don't quote me on that.

A poster asked about a month ago if Freddy was in the US now????

Where is Freddy....and why did ALE sneak him out the back door when he and the Kalpoes were released?



He moved to NY in 2003 from South Beach -- when I find my links & stuff there is a 'going' away party for him.

He didn't even stay a year in NY and returned to South Beach (Miami Beach). Continuing his life saving work in VIP parties. On South Beach. His modeling career just never took off  ::MonkeyConfused::

Many of the clubs he was 'entertainment' director for are known to specialize in female impersonators.

I haven't tried in the past month or so to see if he's turned up again at any of the SoBe clubs. As I mentioned -- he seemed to disappear (or changed his name) from the club scene.

I really don't know too many people anymore who are into the Beach club scene. Sorry.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on February 25, 2008, 03:02:53 PM
Sharon...have you ever looked for anything on Freddy's Dad?

I came up empty a few months back...TIA

A long time ago Mum. It wasn't me -- might have been 'the frog' (kermit, of course)  ::MonkeyLaugh::

A record from when Ernesto was in College --- in Venezuela. iirc -- it had some info on Daddy. Also in Venezuela.

But I don't remember if it was posted here -- or at BFN  ::MonkeyConfused::

SHOUT OUT TO KERMIT


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 03:07:20 PM
Who is Shango and Simian? Shango is an insider who has wasted energy, words and powers on not finding Justice for Natalee. Simian has wasted words and energy on misinformation to bring more misinformation to this case. Shango is not a God or mystic. If Shango has any energy left maybe in straight forward terms can enlighten us all, in the meantime I am no longer wasting my time with Shango or Simian's visions.


LOL...martini...I guess that is why they gave us our own thread...so those of us that want to 'waste' our time can do it, without bothering the other posters....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 03:12:04 PM
Thanks Sharon...That is probably what I remember...the going away party.

Maybe the froggy will pop back in soon.....

I swear I have forgotten so much that I have read.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on February 25, 2008, 03:16:15 PM
::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

Well, Mum -- if Ernesto is using one of his mother's names of Rodriguez -- I'll never be able to find him amongst the millions of Rodriguez's here in Miami  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Sorry -- just a little Miami humour  ::MonkeyTongue::

Lala's -- I will look for what I have on Ernesto and post it -- probably later this afternoon or evening (or when I can find it).

IMO -- there is no connection with Brickell Bay and Ernesto. I think Grande might have a different opinion, however not sure where he's posting his stuff these days. I know search is difficult -- but maybe you can find his postings on the SM forum??
  Try Plain View Fla that is where the Hdqtrs of some of the Bricknell bus is located from what I understand.

Interesting from Aruba Dirty Police:

continue to find documented evidence that clearly shows a link between Aruba and the North Valle Cartel. xxxxx recently reviewed some files regarding the North Valle Cartel in Aruba, and the US's attempts to stifle it's transport of Narcotics through Aruba to MIAMI. It seems the sole purpose of the Forward Operating Location at the Beatrix Airport in Aruba was to combat the Narco transit from Aruba to Florida.

This is where Plainview Florida Inc. comes in to play. The Saieh brothers, registered officers of Plainview, were recently added to the Department of the Treasury's SDNT list (known narco traffickers list) in June 2006. The other registered officers for Plainview are Staten Management of Curacao and Pedro Martin of the Terra Group.

Check out the Terra Group. These are some major players in the real estate development industry not only in the US but worldwide. They are currently ressurecting the skyscraper located at 900 Biscayne Drive, of which is likely funded with xxxxx Dollars.

Interestingly enough many if not all of the Saieh brothers business registrations in Florida have Pedro Martin listed as an officer as well.

xxxxxxxxxx purpose of filing FOI requests;xxxxxx will file a formal request on the Posner's from the Department of Justice as well as some other municipalities. Generally speaking once the request has been processed the corresponding department will send xxxxxx a projected cost to 'pull the files'.

Blackmore investments is the link between North Valle Cartel and the Saieh Brothers.

Pedro Martin is the link between the the Saieh Brothers (North Valley Cartel) and Miami along with Karen Overseas and other Florida registered corporations.
xxxxxx one document to date that would suggest the Posner's and Saieh's/Pedro Martin are associates. They also seem to use the same registered agent in Mark Bryn.

Along with that Plainview Florida, Inc. (Pedro Martin, Saieh Brothers, et. al) are just doors down from the Posners at 701 Brickell along with the other entities I will be showcasing.

It is only a matter of time before xxx uncovers more links some of which I would suggest will link right back to the Excelsior casino and perhaps the VDS' credit lines.

xxxxxxxx discussed my findings regarding Plantation Florida.


Hi jackb!

I've kept up with the case you have mentioned.

IMHO -- Pedro Martin is only guilty of getting work for his law firm -- Greenburg Traurig. He broke all affilitiations with the brothers once all this came to lite.

I am local -- and have been for 20 years -- so this stuff makes my newspapers and evening news on a daily basis.

IMO -- Pedro is one of the good guys. But I don't have the time to go back and post all of the articles. And am not trying to change anyone else's opinion.

The 'Posners' you refer to are Israel & Luis Posner from Aruba Aloe -- No connection to M Posner.

And, iirc, Brickell Bay Reality or Developers??? were Victor Posner -- a deceased Miami Philanthropist who served prison time -- and his son (steven?) inherited the company. Again -- no relation to M Posner -- or Israel & Luis.

And just to add more fuel to all the speculations   ::MonkeyWink:: -- I found an article awhile back -- a fundraising event in Coral Gables which was attended by Steven Posner and ?? (can't remember the name -- but he was the original 'owner' of bangbus) I found that by googling 'Posner and bangbus' as I attempted to follow up on some comments made on this site connecting Posner to Bangbus.

Right bangbus -- wrong posner.

imoo



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Pita on February 25, 2008, 03:28:39 PM
Mum
I don't know if what I am talking about is in this thread or some other thread. LOL  I just remember the gate and someone bringing it to my attention.  It was a grotto area where they supposedly have parties or something.  I wish it was easier to search this forum.  Nothing I do helps me to find stuff anymore...there is a secret to it..but I haven't decoded the search secret yet and the PTB must not have it either. LOL

I'm trying to catch up.  I apologize if this was already posted.  Here's a picture of Lourdes Grotto in Aruba.


(http://i26.tinypic.com/24wgfh1.jpg)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 25, 2008, 03:42:07 PM
(http://i30.tinypic.com/25u30r8.jpg)

http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=Ernesto+Arambatzis&init=q


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 25, 2008, 03:42:32 PM
Sharon...have you ever looked for anything on Freddy's Dad?

I came up empty a few months back...TIA


Any Date of Birth for Freddy Freddy?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 25, 2008, 03:43:46 PM


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open?
Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths.
Tell the Cowboys!
The Arawaks are hiding the path to the Maze for the Babylonians.

Lamb and the Elder are stepping stones into the fetid pool of deception.
 
fetid depths/ fetid pool = corruption


Bleach,

Do you have a map that shows Moko on it? Maybe Blonde has it.

I think it was a little square map.

The Shango/simian riddle mention the three names: Moko, Montanja & Nood.

The lawyer Carlo with PVDS - is that not one of the lawyers for one of the suspects? Antonio?

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 03:51:44 PM
Caps...I think he may be 24 now, but may be 22. Would have to check newspapers from his arrest in August of 2005....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on February 25, 2008, 03:53:00 PM
Fin this one
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/maps/0e1a3471.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 03:55:36 PM
Who is Shango and Simian? Shango is an insider who has wasted energy, words and powers on not finding Justice for Natalee. Simian has wasted words and energy on misinformation to bring more misinformation to this case. Shango is not a God or mystic. If Shango has any energy left maybe in straight forward terms can enlighten us all, in the meantime I am no longer wasting my time with Shango or Simian's visions.

I think you made the right decision.  :roll:MOO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 03:57:52 PM
Thanks Pita!  That is what I was looking for.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 03:59:32 PM


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open?
Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths.
Tell the Cowboys!
The Arawaks are hiding the path to the Maze for the Babylonians.

Lamb and the Elder are stepping stones into the fetid pool of deception.
 
fetid depths/ fetid pool = corruption


Bleach,

Do you have a map that shows Moko on it? Maybe Blonde has it.

I think it was a little square map.

The Shango/simian riddle mention the three names: Moko, Montanja & Nood.

The lawyer Carlo with PVDS - is that not one of the lawyers for one of the suspects? Antonio?

Fin

Hi Fin.....Carlo is one of Joran's lawyers and now Paulus is a partner....


Freddy's lawyer is Dianne Emerencia..sp....same name as one of the peeps that came and talked to US authorities...didn't find any connection on a search.

vms or Pita will know which guy I mean....

Ooman came up a couple of times in Joran's book and the PV's and it crossed my mind that maybe Paulus got the Kalpoes and Freddy the same lawyer in the beginning.  Ooman won't release his case files for the Dr Phil case.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on February 25, 2008, 04:14:43 PM
(http://i30.tinypic.com/25u30r8.jpg)

http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=Ernesto+Arambatzis&init=q

Thanks, vms!

I'm not a member, so I can't pull up the page. Is it recent???


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on February 25, 2008, 04:14:44 PM


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open?
Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths.
Tell the Cowboys!
The Arawaks are hiding the path to the Maze for the Babylonians.

Lamb and the Elder are stepping stones into the fetid pool of deception.
 
fetid depths/ fetid pool = corruption


Bleach,

Do you have a map that shows Moko on it? Maybe Blonde has it.

I think it was a little square map.

The Shango/simian riddle mention the three names: Moko, Montanja & Nood.

The lawyer Carlo with PVDS - is that not one of the lawyers for one of the suspects? Antonio?

Fin

http://www.aruba.com/about/vrtour.php


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 04:20:51 PM
(http://i30.tinypic.com/25u30r8.jpg)

http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=Ernesto+Arambatzis&init=q

Thanks, vms!

I'm not a member, so I can't pull up the page. Is it recent???

Sorry vms...I meant to reply too...I couldn't either.

Lala's...as soon as I saw that gate I knew it was the one you were looking for!

More googling...LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 25, 2008, 04:23:52 PM


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open?
Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths.
Tell the Cowboys!
The Arawaks are hiding the path to the Maze for the Babylonians.

Lamb and the Elder are stepping stones into the fetid pool of deception.
 
fetid depths/ fetid pool = corruption


Bleach,

Do you have a map that shows Moko on it? Maybe Blonde has it.

I think it was a little square map.

The Shango/simian riddle mention the three names: Moko, Montanja & Nood.

The lawyer Carlo with PVDS - is that not one of the lawyers for one of the suspects? Antonio?

Fin

Antonio Carlo was or is the lawyer for JVDS he also had a meeting with Karen Janssen to talk about his client and to clear his conscience


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on February 25, 2008, 04:27:47 PM
ERNESTO for lala's


Img Clerk's
File No GRP Doc.
Type Rec.
Date Plat
Book/Page Rec.
Book/Page First Party (Code) Second Party
  2005 R 503298 1 FCP 05/17/05 N/A 23382/2564 ARAMBATZIS, ERNESTO (R) STEIN, ARIEL
  2007 R 98246 1 FCP 01/29/07 N/A 25317/2088 ARAMBATZIS, ERNESTO (D) SPONSELLER, REBECCA  


Ariel Stein -- was the dropped Domestic violence charge. Ariel is a male who is also a 'club promoter' on South Beach. But he didn't work at the VIP clubs (where you are not automatically allowed in)

Rebecca Sponseller is who Ernie divorced

Here's the link
http://www.miami-dadeclerk.com/public-records/searchresult.asp?page=1


If that doesn't work -- go here -- and type Arambatzis

http://www.miami-dadeclerk.com/public-records/pubsearch.asp





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 25, 2008, 04:29:08 PM
(http://i30.tinypic.com/25u30r8.jpg)

http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=Ernesto+Arambatzis&init=q

Thanks, vms!

I'm not a member, so I can't pull up the page. Is it recent???

Sorry, I don't know when it was updated...

MySpace Search (http://searchservice.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=search&searchType=network&interesttype=&country=&searchBy=First&f_first_name=Ernesto+Arambatzis&Submit=Find&SearchBoxID=FindAFriend)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 04:32:45 PM


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open?
Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths.
Tell the Cowboys!
The Arawaks are hiding the path to the Maze for the Babylonians.

Lamb and the Elder are stepping stones into the fetid pool of deception.
 
fetid depths/ fetid pool = corruption


Bleach,

Do you have a map that shows Moko on it? Maybe Blonde has it.

I think it was a little square map.

The Shango/simian riddle mention the three names: Moko, Montanja & Nood.

The lawyer Carlo with PVDS - is that not one of the lawyers for one of the suspects? Antonio?

Fin

Antonio Carlo was or is the lawyer for JVDS he also had a meeting with Karen Janssen to talk about his client and to clear his conscience


Also got himself in trouble for talking to one of the security guards....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on February 25, 2008, 04:35:56 PM

An Ernesto oldie
http://www.southbeach-usa.com/columns/news-boy/newsboy55.htm


Another Ernesto oldie -- when he worked at the Delano. I've tried researching his company -- 'brainworks' -- no luck. Also, tried researching some of his 'compadres'.  ::MonkeyEek:: scary.
http://www.gmcvb.com/visitors/new_in_miami_entertainment.asp


More old Ernesto
http://www.southbeach-usa.com/clubs/misc/stage/stage1.htm


Some old Webshots -- without names -- that I think may include a few of Ernesto
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/1511947743080750696AeADiG


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 25, 2008, 04:42:06 PM
BRAINWORKS & CO. INC.  (http://www.sunbiz.org/scripts/cordet.exe?action=DETFIL&inq_doc_number=P04000088215&inq_came_from=NAMFWD&cor_web_names_seq_number=0000&names_name_ind=N&names_cor_number=&names_name_seq=&names_name_ind=&names_comp_name=BRAINWORKS&names_filing_type=)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on February 25, 2008, 04:43:07 PM
Miami Beach Chamber of Commerce
Tuesday, May 30, 2006
Page 12

Members: Members by Business Class - All Classes
Company Contact Phone Fax

Bars, Lounges & Nightclubs
Beaches Timothy Wilcox (305)672-1910 (305)672-1910
Free Spirits Timothy Wilcox (305)532-5399 (305)532-5399
Liquor Lounge Timothy Wilcox (305)672-7171 (305)672-7171
Mango's Tropical Cafe, Inc. David Wallack (305)673-4422 (305)674-0311
Mynt Ultralounge Ernesto Arambatzis (305)674-9178
Score Billy Kemp (305)535-1111 (305)535-1164
Ted's Hideaway Timothy Wilcox (305)532-9869 (305)532-9869
Tropical Cigars of South Beach Manny Pozo (305)673-3194
Wet Willies David Stachel (305)532-5650 (305)532-5545



The above is from a PDF of the Miami Beach Chamber of Commerce as of May 2006.
Grande had mentioned that he called Mynt and was told Ernesto no longer worked there??

Interesting -- the link is gone. But I had saved the .pdf?

Info on Ernesto has been 'scarce' since then -- other than the court doc from his divorce in 01/07.

.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 25, 2008, 04:45:42 PM
Miami Beach Chamber of Commerce
Tuesday, May 30, 2006
Page 12

Members: Members by Business Class - All Classes
Company Contact Phone Fax

Bars, Lounges & Nightclubs
Beaches Timothy Wilcox (305)672-1910 (305)672-1910
Free Spirits Timothy Wilcox (305)532-5399 (305)532-5399
Liquor Lounge Timothy Wilcox (305)672-7171 (305)672-7171
Mango's Tropical Cafe, Inc. David Wallack (305)673-4422 (305)674-0311
Mynt Ultralounge Ernesto Arambatzis (305)674-9178
Score Billy Kemp (305)535-1111 (305)535-1164
Ted's Hideaway Timothy Wilcox (305)532-9869 (305)532-9869
Tropical Cigars of South Beach Manny Pozo (305)673-3194
Wet Willies David Stachel (305)532-5650 (305)532-5545



The above is from a PDF of the Miami Beach Chamber of Commerce as of May 2006.
Grande had mentioned that he called Mynt and was told Ernesto no longer worked there??

Interesting -- the link is gone. But I had saved the .pdf?

Info on Ernesto has been 'scarce' since then -- other than the court doc from his divorce in 01/07.

.

www.miamibeachchamber.com/pdfs/cwr_membyclassallcls010306.pdf


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on February 25, 2008, 04:56:40 PM
(http://i30.tinypic.com/25u30r8.jpg)

http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=Ernesto+Arambatzis&init=q

Thanks, vms!

I'm not a member, so I can't pull up the page. Is it recent???

Sorry, I don't know when it was updated...

MySpace Search (http://searchservice.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=search&searchType=network&interesttype=&country=&searchBy=First&f_first_name=Ernesto+Arambatzis&Submit=Find&SearchBoxID=FindAFriend)

Thanks, vms.

The first 2 definitely could be Ernesto.

The second 2 are from a 22 year old in Miami, Kansas  ::MonkeyLaugh::

Both of the 'potential' Ernesto's have not updated since Sept -- Oct 2006 -- right about when Ernesto 'disappeared'?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on February 25, 2008, 04:59:48 PM
vms  ::MonkeyLaugh:: I can't keep up with you  ::MonkeyHaHa::


http://i7.tinypic.com/21b6wbq.jpg

I think Grande posted this  -  a pic of Ernesto and his domestic violence charge.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 25, 2008, 05:21:05 PM
vms  ::MonkeyLaugh:: I can't keep up with you  ::MonkeyHaHa::


http://i7.tinypic.com/21b6wbq.jpg

I think Grande posted this  -  a pic of Ernesto and his domestic violence charge.

Lol, Sharon.
We worked together on Ernesto many moons ago.  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 05:43:35 PM
ERNESTO for lala's


Img Clerk's
File No GRP Doc.
Type Rec.
Date Plat
Book/Page Rec.
Book/Page First Party (Code) Second Party
  2005 R 503298 1 FCP 05/17/05 N/A 23382/2564 ARAMBATZIS, ERNESTO (R) STEIN, ARIEL
  2007 R 98246 1 FCP 01/29/07 N/A 25317/2088 ARAMBATZIS, ERNESTO (D) SPONSELLER, REBECCA  


Ariel Stein -- was the dropped Domestic violence charge. Ariel is a male who is also a 'club promoter' on South Beach. But he didn't work at the VIP clubs (where you are not automatically allowed in)

Rebecca Sponseller is who Ernie divorced

Here's the link
http://www.miami-dadeclerk.com/public-records/searchresult.asp?page=1


If that doesn't work -- go here -- and type Arambatzis

http://www.miami-dadeclerk.com/public-records/pubsearch.asp






Thanks Sharon.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 25, 2008, 05:50:10 PM
So Freddy is Dirty????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on February 25, 2008, 05:58:40 PM
vms  ::MonkeyLaugh:: I can't keep up with you  ::MonkeyHaHa::


http://i7.tinypic.com/21b6wbq.jpg

I think Grande posted this  -  a pic of Ernesto and his domestic violence charge.

Lol, Sharon.
We worked together on Ernesto many moons ago.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

At BFN?? (but you weren't vms??)

HI  ::MonkeyDance::  ::MonkeyDance::  ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 25, 2008, 06:01:14 PM
vms  ::MonkeyLaugh:: I can't keep up with you  ::MonkeyHaHa::


http://i7.tinypic.com/21b6wbq.jpg

I think Grande posted this  -  a pic of Ernesto and his domestic violence charge.

Lol, Sharon.
We worked together on Ernesto many moons ago.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

At BFN?? (but you weren't vms??)

HI  ::MonkeyDance::  ::MonkeyDance::  ::MonkeyDance::

You got it.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I think we may have been the only two interested in him at the time.  ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on February 25, 2008, 06:22:51 PM
GREAT to see you (now that I know  ::MonkeyHaHa::)

And I see that you still have that 'data center' for all your info storage  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 25, 2008, 06:27:38 PM
GREAT to see you (now that I know  ::MonkeyHaHa::)

And I see that you still have that 'data center' for all your info storage  ::MonkeyHaHa::
Great to see you too!

Now, why are we searching Ernesto again?  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on February 25, 2008, 06:39:50 PM
Page 114 Jorans book
Joran visits neighbor Freddy

7A Catiri Freddy Zedan Arambatziz

ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT     LILIAN REGINA     MONTANJA     39-F
http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm


#39-F Montana (Montanja), Noord

Freddy’s house:
7A Catiri (apartment)


Mom's address is: 62 Montana is ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ address in NOORD

WELCO
Catiri 1
NOORD
Tel: (297) 5871916
Fax:

PARADISE RESTAURANT
Catiri 5 A
NOORD
Tel: (297) 5879126
Fax:
5-TH GEAR ART PRODUCTIONS
Catiri 6
ORANJESTAD
Tel: (297) 5871241
Fax: (297) 5871241
Email: lemminga@setarnet.aw



Freddy is Venezuelan



(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b341/dkpen/ernestoaruba.gif)
Ernesto on the left

Here are the exact charges against Freddy Arambatziz, according to Vinda de Sousa:

Intentionally distributing sexual images of a minor.
Intercourse with an unconscious person.
Sexual acts with a girl younger than 16 years.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 07:01:00 PM
GREAT to see you (now that I know  ::MonkeyHaHa::)

And I see that you still have that 'data center' for all your info storage  ::MonkeyHaHa::
Great to see you too!

Now, why are we searching Ernesto again?  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I have forgotten. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 07:07:40 PM
Page 114 Jorans book
Joran visits neighbor Freddy

7A Catiri Freddy Zedan Arambatziz

ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT     LILIAN REGINA     MONTANJA     39-F
http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm


#39-F Montana (Montanja), Noord

Freddy’s house:
7A Catiri (apartment)


Mom's address is: 62 Montana is ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ address in NOORD

WELCO
Catiri 1
NOORD
Tel: (297) 5871916
Fax:

PARADISE RESTAURANT
Catiri 5 A
NOORD
Tel: (297) 5879126
Fax:
5-TH GEAR ART PRODUCTIONS
Catiri 6
ORANJESTAD
Tel: (297) 5871241
Fax: (297) 5871241
Email: lemminga@setarnet.aw



Freddy is Venezuelan



(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b341/dkpen/ernestoaruba.gif)
Ernesto on the left

Here are the exact charges against Freddy Arambatziz, according to Vinda de Sousa:

Intentionally distributing sexual images of a minor.
Intercourse with an unconscious person.
Sexual acts with a girl younger than 16 years.




That is what confuses me about all this.  Freddy was obviously being questioned concerning Natalee very early in all this.  From what we can tell he was the person arrested right after Steve Croes and yet, we never heard anything about him until we got a glimpse at those van conversations between Joran and K2.  Since then, he's been the mystery man, mostly because we didn't know he was on the radar early.  The only thing left is to establish that Natalee met Freddy earlier in her vacation...if that is done...then we most likely have found our 5th suspect. 


I wonder why Freddy would have Joran shaking in his boots?  What is the connection that Freddy has that could be that powerful?  The only thing I can think of would be drugs and money laundering and maybe even weapons smuggling of some type.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on February 25, 2008, 07:51:11 PM
FIN ... Here is a good link for Aruba Maps
http://www.fallingrain.com/world/AA/0/Noord.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 07:52:28 PM


Caps….Which is the father’s name please?

FREDDY ZEDAN ARAMBATZIS…is it ZEDAN…..TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 25, 2008, 08:29:31 PM
June 22nd, 2005 at 5:38 pm
Checkme…check this…and please recheck:
Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week.
After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him. This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The 5th suspect. Does anyone remember what I said?

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Who said the alibi played for the Van Der Sloot’s? The 5th suspect is waltzing away.

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Was I the one who was speculative? My story was not about the boys. Don’t dismiss if you can’t remember. Are you asking for a refresher?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on February 25, 2008, 08:30:31 PM
Great to see you too!

Now, why are we searching Ernesto again?  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I have forgotten. LOL

I was going to say  -- I don't know why we're searching him again  -- but all it takes for me to spring into action is the mere mention of his name ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

 




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 08:32:19 PM
For Lala’s…Melody and scuba who is starting to sound like Simian!!!! Not sure how the posts got out of order...I don't think I did it...

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/09/natalee_hollowa_4.html


good morning all :)
if it's true that freddy will be leaving aruba then good for him!!!
his dad has been dieing in venezuela and because of all this he couldn't go and visit him, put yourself in his shoes ... so, heartfully : good for him :)
Posted by: Melody | Saturday, September 03, 2005 at 11:23 AM

BTW-Freddy had an ironclad alibi for the night in question-May 30-there was a big family event and he was with his family all night. Many Witnesses.
Posted by: scubajap | Saturday, September 03, 2005 at 11:47 AM

Melody-check your mail
Posted by: scubajap | Saturday, September 03, 2005 at 11:54 AM
 
Hmmmm. Then why on earth was he called into question? That makes no sense when many saw him partying with his family. He could not have any connection. Why would they do that?
Posted by: FloridaPatty | Saturday, September 03, 2005 at 11:54 AM
 
Sorry-May 29 to 30. He was not with the others the night Natalee disappeared.
Posted by: scubajap | Saturday, September 03, 2005 at 11:55 AM

BTW-Freddy had an ironclad alibi for the night in question-May 30-there was a big family event and he was with his family all night. Many Witnesses.
Posted by: scubajap | Sep 3, 2005 11:47:20 AM

I thought he was supposed to have spent the night at Joran's apartment.
Posted by: DennisAOK | Saturday, September 03, 2005 at 12:32 PM



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 08:37:42 PM
June 22nd, 2005 at 5:38 pm
Checkme…check this…and please recheck:
Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week.
After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him. This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The 5th suspect. Does anyone remember what I said?

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Who said the alibi played for the Van Der Sloot’s? The 5th suspect is waltzing away.

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Was I the one who was speculative? My story was not about the boys. Don’t dismiss if you can’t remember. Are you asking for a refresher?


So who is this cool and crazy guy?  Give us a name!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 08:38:46 PM
Great to see you too!

Now, why are we searching Ernesto again?  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I have forgotten. LOL

I was going to say  -- I don't know why we're searching him again  -- but all it takes for me to spring into action is the mere mention of his name ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

 





LOL...It's because of Freddy!!!! Who I think is #5....

Now if COLUMBO can give me proof otherwise I will rethink it!

 ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 08:41:57 PM
For Lala’s…Melody and scuba who is starting to sound like Simian!!!! Not sure how the posts got out of order...I don't think I did it...

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/09/natalee_hollowa_4.html


good morning all :)
if it's true that freddy will be leaving aruba then good for him!!!
his dad has been dieing in venezuela and because of all this he couldn't go and visit him, put yourself in his shoes ... so, heartfully : good for him :)
Posted by: Melody | Saturday, September 03, 2005 at 11:23 AM

BTW-Freddy had an ironclad alibi for the night in question-May 30-there was a big family event and he was with his family all night. Many Witnesses.
Posted by: scubajap | Saturday, September 03, 2005 at 11:47 AM

Melody-check your mail
Posted by: scubajap | Saturday, September 03, 2005 at 11:54 AM
 
Hmmmm. Then why on earth was he called into question? That makes no sense when many saw him partying with his family. He could not have any connection. Why would they do that?
Posted by: FloridaPatty | Saturday, September 03, 2005 at 11:54 AM
 
Sorry-May 29 to 30. He was not with the others the night Natalee disappeared.
Posted by: scubajap | Saturday, September 03, 2005 at 11:55 AM

BTW-Freddy had an ironclad alibi for the night in question-May 30-there was a big family event and he was with his family all night. Many Witnesses.
Posted by: scubajap | Sep 3, 2005 11:47:20 AM

I thought he was supposed to have spent the night at Joran's apartment.
Posted by: DennisAOK | Saturday, September 03, 2005 at 12:32 PM



One most step for Freddy to be the 5th suspect.  I was just reading in the pages 29 to 40. Somewhere in there is a post about Freddy and Joran spending time with the girls from MB for the first few days.  I can't remember where, but I swear I just read it. LOL   So I am thinking you were right on Mum.  Until someone proves to me otherwise...I am going with you.  Freddy was that other person Simian talked about...now someone prove me wrong.  Mum has done an excellent job of proving her point.  If anyone thinks it's someone else prove it like Mum did.

Mum we need bullet points on Freddy's qualifications as the 5th. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 08:51:08 PM
LOL Lala's...where would I find those little bullet things?

Do you think Freddy's gone?

Party with relatives....Ernesto...was the false alibi saying he was at the Sloots for Joran-sleeping over, but then his family bailed him out?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 08:57:45 PM
Freddy's alibi...

ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT   LILIAN REGINA..Mom

Stepdad
Stepsister...Sasha
The other Rodriguez...from Dr Phil...posted this morning

And I believe there is another one on the Log...may be HI security Guard

Got to look at that log again...

Still want to know why he is so protected...need his Dad's name!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 25, 2008, 08:59:40 PM
I did see some party pictures from the bars with Freddy last year.  I don't know if he's still in Aruba or maybe was there on school break?  Who knows?  If he's not in Aruba then my next guess would be with Ernesto in the Miami area.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 09:05:06 PM
You mean I have to go find those posts again!

I think the Soul Beach Festival beach concerts at Moomba's would be a good bet, they started early afternoon.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 25, 2008, 09:12:26 PM
Blonde,

No, those are not they.

It was a long time ago... where I saw that map.

I think that the three names mentioned form a triangle(like all three points will) but I thought that the VS home was near the center of those three points.

I think the waters around his home were being searched.

Fetid pools of deception...maybe this is a clue that false clues were being planted to throw the dogs off. Maybe riddle was speaking in broader terms.

I still wonder what JVDS meant that he was lucky that no one found her... like maybe one of the searches was close.

That smirk on his face when he said, "it's a big ocean" maybe like she is not there. One thing for sure, that smirk also meant he knows where she is.

I do not think they had enough time to dump her that night. The next day/night they would have had time. That is why he had to be on the casino video.

Odd too that he made certain that he was on video. So, he knew about the casino video-taping before when he and Papa Perv were sitting at the same table as NH.

Odd also, that body turns up draining pond, body found in the LH dunes, "old indian graves" at Fisherman's Huts. Just how many bodies does Aruba lose?

Oh, and Nat of course. But are they really looking for her?

How many more?

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 09:13:19 PM
I did see some party pictures from the bars with Freddy last year.  I don't know if he's still in Aruba or maybe was there on school break?  Who knows?  If he's not in Aruba then my next guess would be with Ernesto in the Miami area.

Klaas...a poster asked a few weeks back if he was in the US...it made me wonder...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on February 25, 2008, 09:35:14 PM
This one
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/maps/hollowaygeoprofile.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on February 25, 2008, 09:54:29 PM
LOL...Sharon


Freddy is Venezuelan...

ARAMBATZIS PEREZ ROBBY GERARDUS from JE’s Link


From Dr Phil docs…

Name: Luis Guillermo Rodriguez
Date:22 July 2005
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs, Zoraida De Cuba
Description: witness statement


Freddy may be dirtyhand.  He is neither Babylonian nor Arawak.  Also, Joran said (for what it is worth) the man he was speaking of was part Aruban.  Also I remember Freddy reading that Joran came home and changed shirts that night while he, himself was there sleeping.  He must have changed his "staying over story."  Shango speaks of deflowerings, etc., sounds like too young girls for this activity.  A lot of it must go on.  Freddy has some crap on many people, and his family, is no doubt connected through his older silly looking brother whose girlfriend looks like a boy in a dress who has had harmone shots.  Sick assed bunch.      jack blue


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: kippy on February 25, 2008, 09:55:21 PM
I think you are right on with Freddy.  There is so much information in this thread, I gave up long ago trying to keep up!  Freddy has always bugged me.  Where else in the world, other than Aruba, would they keep protecting a known pervert??  How many times was he picked up for the same thing...taking pictures of unconscious girls, underage girls, showing the pictures...the need for JK2 to return his camera. The pictures of him above really creep me out. When I saw the tape with Patrick I thought Daury must be Freddy, just for the fact that Urine does have "stuff" on him and has been loyal to him.  I also in my heart think Daury is papasloot. OOPS got off on a rant there..sorry.  Anyway, Freddy fits into so much of what Shango says in the very beginning.  Actually he could very well fit into what alot of the very early posters said back in 2005.  Keep up the good work, I'm pulling for ya! Big Monkey WOOTS! to all of you.  ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 10:03:36 PM
Well...it looks like Beth doesn't believe in all this coincidence either...and was Steve Croes singing?

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/29/ng.01.html



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 25, 2008, 10:14:34 PM
June 22nd, 2005 at 5:38 pm
Checkme…check this…and please recheck:
Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week.
After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him. This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The 5th suspect. Does anyone remember what I said?

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Who said the alibi played for the Van Der Sloot’s? The 5th suspect is waltzing away.

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Was I the one who was speculative? My story was not about the boys. Don’t dismiss if you can’t remember. Are you asking for a refresher?


So who is this cool and crazy guy?  Give us a name!


Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:50 pm
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 25, 2008, 10:14:39 PM
Klaasend: LaLA:

I have sent you an email with the map in question

please upload to forum


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 10:17:38 PM
I think you are right on with Freddy.  There is so much information in this thread, I gave up long ago trying to keep up!  Freddy has always bugged me.  Where else in the world, other than Aruba, would they keep protecting a known pervert??  How many times was he picked up for the same thing...taking pictures of unconscious girls, underage girls, showing the pictures...the need for JK2 to return his camera. The pictures of him above really creep me out. When I saw the tape with Patrick I thought Daury must be Freddy, just for the fact that Urine does have "stuff" on him and has been loyal to him.  I also in my heart think Daury is papasloot. OOPS got off on a rant there..sorry.  Anyway, Freddy fits into so much of what Shango says in the very beginning.  Actually he could very well fit into what alot of the very early posters said back in 2005.  Keep up the good work, I'm pulling for ya! Big Monkey WOOTS! to all of you.  ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::
Page 28 is where the 5th suspect discussion begins and leads into Freddy in detail by page 36.  It's worth the read to see how things have changed since we have heard Joran's story...other stories. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 10:19:16 PM
Last one..not going to lose any more sleep on Freddy...Link no longer works..Good Night all...

08-27-2005, 05:14 PM 
LovelyPigeon
 Info on Freddy from BHT: Holloway Twitty said she wasn't surprised by the arrest of the third man, who she identified only as "Freddy," saying police and FBI agents had repeatedly mentioned him to her as a "person of interest" in the case.Holloway Twitty said the suspect was a friend of 18-year-old Joran van der Sloot, who has been detained since June 9 in the disappearance of Holloway. She said the man lived near the van der Sloots' home in Noord and had previously been questioned as a witness. - http://www.wral.com/apworldnews/4905559/detail.html
Link doesn’t work…


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 10:23:32 PM
Should I wait up ... Caps?...where's my yawning monkey....Hurry you guys, please!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 25, 2008, 10:28:08 PM
LALA: Klaasend:

I have also sent you a Google Earth Map about the Are

You can upload for the rest to work from


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on February 25, 2008, 10:36:45 PM
June 22nd, 2005 at 5:38 pm
Checkme…check this…and please recheck:
Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week.
After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him. This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The 5th suspect. Does anyone remember what I said?

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Who said the alibi played for the Van Der Sloot’s? The 5th suspect is waltzing away.

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Was I the one who was speculative? My story was not about the boys. Don’t dismiss if you can’t remember. Are you asking for a refresher?


So who is this cool and crazy guy?  Give us a name!


Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:50 pm
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.




Now letttsss see.  Who would have access to video tapes?  Could it be SATAN?  Maybe, but the Cromvroits may be working for him.  They have the "keys" to everything.  The sergeant at arms would have the key to the Lions Den, wouldn't he?  Who would that be?
I am thinking at that time it would be different than it is now.  "The Babylonians know her"  could simply mean:  The Babylonians were with her last and know where she was taken, etc.     Jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on February 25, 2008, 10:37:44 PM
Page 114 Jorans book
Joran visits neighbor Freddy

7A Catiri Freddy Zedan Arambatziz

ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT     LILIAN REGINA     MONTANJA     39-F
http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm


#39-F Montana (Montanja), Noord

Freddy’s house:
7A Catiri (apartment)


Mom's address is: 62 Montana is ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ address in NOORD

WELCO
Catiri 1
NOORD
Tel: (297) 5871916
Fax:

PARADISE RESTAURANT
Catiri 5 A
NOORD
Tel: (297) 5879126
Fax:
5-TH GEAR ART PRODUCTIONS
Catiri 6
ORANJESTAD
Tel: (297) 5871241
Fax: (297) 5871241
Email: lemminga@setarnet.aw



Freddy is Venezuelan



(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b341/dkpen/ernestoaruba.gif)
Ernesto on the left

Here are the exact charges against Freddy Arambatziz, according to Vinda de Sousa:

Intentionally distributing sexual images of a minor.
Intercourse with an unconscious person.
Sexual acts with a girl younger than 16 years.




That is what confuses me about all this.  Freddy was obviously being questioned concerning Natalee very early in all this.  From what we can tell he was the person arrested right after Steve Croes and yet, we never heard anything about him until we got a glimpse at those van conversations between Joran and K2.  Since then, he's been the mystery man, mostly because we didn't know he was on the radar early.  The only thing left is to establish that Natalee met Freddy earlier in her vacation...if that is done...then we most likely have found our 5th suspect. 


I wonder why Freddy would have Joran shaking in his boots?  What is the connection that Freddy has that could be that powerful?  The only thing I can think of would be drugs and money laundering and maybe even weapons smuggling of some type.


Art: It could have been Freddy. I've seen a lot of interviews, one of those interviews talks about the fact Paul had gotten attorneys for thse kids the first week in June before they were even arrested. He got an attorney for Freddy, who wasn't even arrested until September. That tells you a lot an Freddy is one of the 5 people I mentioned earlier.

.
Freddy Zedan-Arambatzis,  is accused of taking photos of a minor female in "tempting poses" and of showing the photos to other people, said his lawyer, Diana Emerencia. He is also suspected of having unspecified "physical contact" with the girl, she said.
FREDDY’S ATTORNEY: DIANE Emerencia, or Lady Eyes
(http://island-temptations.com/old/spring04/images/calipso_2-14.jpg)



TUESDAY,  MAY 31
 
sometime during the day ** Sander calls  Freddy. ** The conversation went concerning my telephone that was stolen ( SG - 6/17)



Freddy knew about the invented Holiday Inn and the tale which my brother and I and Joran told and that the missing girl was dropped off at the beach at the Marriott. My brother Deepak had told me that he and Joran invented the tale but to Freddy the beach tale was told.
Satish Kalpoe Suspect Statement 06/24/05



Satish Kalpoe Suspect Statement 06/30/05
Freddy is the person Joran confides in and he can tell you the truth.


Freddy is a light colored latino from Venezuela that only spoke papi.

(page 1 Joran's book)


Joran and Freddy often went to the beach. He got him in touch with the pretty girls.
(page 5 Joran's book)

Joran says Freddy introduced in to the paradise that had always been in front of him.
(Page 5 Joran's book)

together with Freddy and Jaime Joran would trawl the beaches and swimming pools to chat up tourists
(Page 1 Joran's book)


"the pimpology crew"

 Freddy was my best friend
(page 7 Joran's book and Freddy Zedan Witness Statement June 12th 2005)
I tell my father that I want to talk to Freddy to talk about this whole thing.
Freddy practically lives next to me and is one of my best friends.

DAVE: Any name that is mentioned in the interrogation was called in for questioning.
(Source: BFN - Dave Holloway shared with BFN Chat)

June 13, 2005 - Freddy witness statement
June 16, 2005 - Freddy Alexander Arambatzis statement
June 17, 2005 - Freddy witness statement
June 28, 2005 - Freddy Alexander Zedan Arambatzis witness statement
July 1, 2005 - Freddy witness statement
July 20, 2005 - Freddy witness statement
Feb. 10, 2006 - Freddy witness statment


D: And I also trusted Freddy like a brother.
(Polis tapes)


D: He keeps information behind. You know that Van der Sloot trusts Freddy with his life.
Freddy knows what has happened. Freddy knows the truth.
D: Freddy knows, Freddy knows.
S: I’ve just said, Freddy also knows about the story of what happened, ask him.
D: Freddy knows
(Polis tapes)




BENVINDA DE SOUZA - ATTORNEY : The rearrest of the Kalpoe brothers is based on the new facts and circumstances that in the course of the investigation have come forward. Freddy who is Joran’s best friend and neighbour is always with Joran a

The official charges on Freddy Zedan-Arambatzis are intentionally distribute and show sexual images of a minor; intercourse with someone he knows is unconscious and sexual acts with a girl younger than 16 years. I do believe he will remain in custody for quite some time. It is my understanding, that strategically he is a very important suspect along with Joran and the Kalpoe brothers.(Helen Lejuez - Family's Aruban Attorney,Benvinda de Souza - Family's Aruban Attorney on At Large w/ Geraldo Rivera - August 27, 2005)


MARTINA, Karen Theresa Paulina   – Allegedly was in porn video taped by Freddy. Joran admits to having sex with her multiple times.  Was named by JQK as a date rape victim of Joran, but Tacopina claims she has said it was consensual



LEJUEZ: : She is a minor, so I won’t say anything about her. She has been involved in whatever the young man is being accused of right now. She is not the only one. The news we are getting right now is there are sex films that are being produced for selling. I think this information I am getting right now is bigger than even we expected.



Monday afternoon on the 30th, Joran came to my house.(Joran's book)



Prosecutor's office spokeswoman Mariaine Croes told FOX News that the third person was a man known as "Freddy" or "F.A.," said to be a friend of Joran van der Sloot, who has been held in the case since June 9.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 10:41:04 PM
Klaasend: LaLA:

I have sent you an email with the map in question

please upload to forum



Thanks.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 10:48:55 PM
Klaas is going to have to resize it for us.  I uploaded, but it says the image is too large. She will fix it. She's a wizard...she really is.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 10:52:24 PM
CAPS
Did you send those other two to Klaas too?  That one with Freddy's home in relation to those apartments is interesting. Are those the apartments you mentioned Joran knew about?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 10:57:53 PM
Should I wait up ... Caps?...where's my yawning monkey....Hurry you guys, please!

Hang on. I have asked for assistance. The images just say they are too large. So Klaas has to work her magic.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 25, 2008, 11:00:14 PM
LALA :

Who is the attorney for Freddy, Who is representing him as Legal adviser



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 11:01:44 PM
LALA :

Who is the attorney for Freddy, Who is representing him as Legal adviser



Diane Emerencia. I think. Check out the posts above by Kermit.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 25, 2008, 11:03:10 PM
From Capslock:

Please load this map to show the houses.
39f is located just 3 minutes walking distance of the Montanja Park apartments..


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/montanjaarea.jpg)

Montanja 19 to Montanja 39f link

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Mtj19toMtj39link.jpg)

Freddy home to Montana Park Apartments.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/FreddytoMontanaParkapartments.jpg)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 11:03:15 PM
This one
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/maps/hollowaygeoprofile.jpg)


Where did you get this?  I remember seeing it before...please give me details.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 11:03:58 PM
LALA :

Who is the attorney for Freddy, Who is representing him as Legal adviser




Dianne emerencia


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 11:06:34 PM
Caps and Mum

Did you look at that map Blonde posted very closely???  The red circle?  Predator profiling?  Interesting isn't it?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 25, 2008, 11:07:28 PM
Caps and Mum

Did you look at that map Blonde posted very closely???  The red circle?  Predator profiling?  Interesting isn't it?

Someone Rob was working with put that together.

Edited to add:  It's been posted in the forum several times, but not recently.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 11:08:27 PM
Is anyone in here?  yoo hoo??


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 11:09:45 PM
Caps and Mum

Did you look at that map Blonde posted very closely???  The red circle?  Predator profiling?  Interesting isn't it?

Someone Rob was working with put that together.

Edited to add:  It's been posted in the forum several times, but not recently.


Klaas what I need you for is to check your email and see if you can post those pics Caps sent you. I tried, but it didn't work for me.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 25, 2008, 11:14:03 PM
Caps and Mum

Did you look at that map Blonde posted very closely???  The red circle?  Predator profiling?  Interesting isn't it?

YEP


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 11:14:31 PM
Is anyone in here?  yoo hoo??


I'm here...trying to look at the red circle...eyes side shut....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 11:21:32 PM
Caps and Mum

Did you look at that map Blonde posted very closely???  The red circle?  Predator profiling?  Interesting isn't it?

YEP



Lala's....Is that circle where Joran and Freddy live?   TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 25, 2008, 11:23:09 PM
Lala's - I posted Caps pictures already, they are on the previous page  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 11:23:27 PM
Caps and Mum

Did you look at that map Blonde posted very closely???  The red circle?  Predator profiling?  Interesting isn't it?

YEP



Lala's....Is that circle where Joran and Freddy live?   TIA

No they live in Montanja.  Check you email again. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 11:25:17 PM
Lala's - I posted Caps pictures already, they are on the previous page  ::MonkeyWink::

Gosh!  I am sorry..where have I been all this time. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 11:26:03 PM
Caps…Renata Emerencia…I couldn’t find a connection to Freddy’s lawyer Dianne…he came to Washington and met with US authorities…may be more useless info…

Be back in the morning …weather permitting….


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 11:27:27 PM
Night Mum, Sweet dreams.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 25, 2008, 11:32:51 PM
Lala's - I posted Caps pictures already, they are on the previous page  ::MonkeyWink::

Gosh!  I am sorry..where have I been all this time. LOL


LOL...I kept going back to the original map and there's one on the top of the page....Ok....nite...LOL...I hope it's not Freddy again...the dreams I mean!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 26, 2008, 12:34:42 AM
Lala's - I posted Caps pictures already, they are on the previous page  ::MonkeyWink::

Gosh!  I am sorry..where have I been all this time. LOL


LOL...I kept going back to the original map and there's one on the top of the page....Ok....nite...LOL...I hope it's not Freddy again...the dreams I mean!

The map is good for what it is.
Who ever made the map, it must in the early stages of the investigation.

The map does show where they have search. Who desided where to search is still a question for me.

I have a better maps with more details.

Klaasend did you say that a Rob made the map. I wonder is it Rob Smith?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 26, 2008, 01:35:19 AM
Lala's - I posted Caps pictures already, they are on the previous page  ::MonkeyWink::

Gosh!  I am sorry..where have I been all this time. LOL


LOL...I kept going back to the original map and there's one on the top of the page....Ok....nite...LOL...I hope it's not Freddy again...the dreams I mean!

The map is good for what it is.
Who ever made the map, it must in the early stages of the investigation.

The map does show where they have search. Who desided where to search is still a question for me.

I have a better maps with more details.

Klaasend did you say that a Rob made the map. I wonder is it Rob Smith?


No, Rob didn't make the map, an investigator he knew drew it up and yes, it was pretty early in the case.  NO...not Rob Smith.  Just Rob who has posted here at SM since the beginning.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 26, 2008, 05:40:26 AM
Caps…Kermit….Lala’s…..does this make any sense…where is 7A Catiri…
I think I just lost my mind!!!!

This from Kermit yesterday…..

Reply #2692 on: February 25, 2008, 10:37:44 PM »    Quote
 
Quote from: Lala'sMom on February 25, 2008, 07:07:40 PM
Quote from: Kermit on February 25, 2008, 06:39:50 PM
Page 114 Jorans book
Joran visits neighbor Freddy

7A Catiri Freddy Zedan Arambatziz

ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT     LILIAN REGINA     MONTANJA     39-F
http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm


#39-F Montana (Montanja), Noord

Freddy’s house:
7A Catiri (apartment)
Mom's address is: 62 Montana is ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ address in NOORD

I found this at websleuths….

08-29-2005, 03:43 AM
upallnite  Registered User       Join Date: May 2005Posts: 841

Hey rollerbladr!!!!  Honestly,I'm having real confusion over Freddies name.When I first,I meen very first,heard about those arrests of K2 and Freddie the other day I heard some newscaster on TV say his name was Frederick Arends or F.A.I know y'all are gonna think I'm crazy!!!I found an aruban list,it's in dutch so I couldn't read the title above the list,but I was doing a search on aruban students looking for the correct spelling of Arambatzis and this list came up and there is a Frederick Jacinthus Arends on list. It says he lives in Catiri Aruba,which is right by Oranjestad.Ok everyone tell me I'm a nut!!!I'll admit it freely.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28293&page=7


And this
anaam vnaam pstraat pnummer pplaats AAL GEORGE JOHANNES ...
ARENDS, FREDERICK JACINTHUS, CATIRI, 7-A, NOORD. ARENDS, GALO DARIO, NEWTONSTRAAT, 12, ORANJESTAD. ARENDS, GILBERT REINALD, TANKI LEENDERT, 133, NOORD ...www.arubachamber.com/LC%20KLEIN%2005-06-2005.htm - Similar pages



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 26, 2008, 06:33:37 AM
Kermit…help…please…where did 7A Catiri…come from?


Link to Chamber

www.arubachamber.com/LC%20KLEIN%2005-06-2005.htm





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 26, 2008, 06:36:56 AM
Does anybody know where the moko pond is in relation to jorans house
it was said he dumped his dead dogs there

it is described in this link but i can't find a location for it:
http://www.sarfa.org/news07-02-22HogaDamdiMoko.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 26, 2008, 06:55:07 AM
Does anybody know where the moko pond is in relation to jorans house
it was said he dumped his dead dogs there

it is described in this link but i can't find a location for it:
http://www.sarfa.org/news07-02-22HogaDamdiMoko.html


 Hi...I think it is close JE

I posted a link yesterday AM for a map...is it on there?

I googled a week or so back and didn't have much luck.

May not be able to reply any more ...as my dish keeps going out!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 26, 2008, 07:04:59 AM
June 22nd, 2005 at 5:38 pm
Checkme…check this…and please recheck:
Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week.
After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him. This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The 5th suspect. Does anyone remember what I said?

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Who said the alibi played for the Van Der Sloot’s? The 5th suspect is waltzing away.

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Was I the one who was speculative? My story was not about the boys. Don’t dismiss if you can’t remember. Are you asking for a refresher?


So who is this cool and crazy guy?  Give us a name!


Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:50 pm
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.




Now letttsss see.  Who would have access to video tapes?  Could it be SATAN?  Maybe, but the Cromvroits may be working for him.  They have the "keys" to everything.  The sergeant at arms would have the key to the Lions Den, wouldn't he?  Who would that be?
I am thinking at that time it would be different than it is now.  "The Babylonians know her"  could simply mean:  The Babylonians were with her last and know where she was taken, etc.     Jack b


his lordship:
http://scaredmonkeys.com/index.php?s=posner+security


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 26, 2008, 08:27:24 AM
Maybe someone else needs to google Freddy Arambatzis/Arends.....

Just who the heck is Freddy? ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on February 26, 2008, 08:48:37 AM
Maybe someone else needs to google Freddy Arambatzis/Arends.....

Just who the heck is Freddy? ::MonkeyConfused::

(a.k.a. Locoman Pimp,” a.k.a. “badboy_956,” a.k.a. “Freddy Zedan” nickname “Fefi”)

 according to Joran’s book.

http://www.fokkinel.com/tag/joran-van-der-sloot/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 26, 2008, 09:17:41 AM
Good Morning vms...do you have any idea where Kermit got this address from?  Have you seen it before?

7A Catiri



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on February 26, 2008, 09:50:54 AM
Good Morning vms...do you have any idea where Kermit got this address from?  Have you seen it before?

7A Catiri



Good morning, Mum.

That address was posted very early on. I don't remember now where it came from but always believed it was wrong. JMO.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 26, 2008, 10:16:10 AM
Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:14 am
The road from the boy’s home leads to the dirty water. Look for Noord and look for Moko.
The cowboys feet are wet. They are not quickdraws, they will creep by the inch. It’s deep and wide. The Babylonians need this, before time runs out.

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:33 am
Find Aruba. Look for Noord. Look for Montaña. Look for Moko. Let your fingers connect the dots.
The cowboys feet are deeper in the dirty water. The vultures are hanging around and are ready to pounce. Hang on to your tubes.
The Simian doesn’t want to be right.

Find Aruba. Look for Noord. Look for Montaña. Look for Moko. Let your fingers connect the dots.

Just a thought:
Maybe Noord Montana and Moko are all geographical locations and not neighborhoods.
-what if by look for Noord he means the california lighthouse at the most northern point of the island.
-what if look for montana means just that: a mountain=Hooiberg

I drew a line from hooiberg to the lighthouse. If you follow this line (Let your fingers connect the dots)  there is a pond near moko right on this line

The distance from the pond to sloots house is about 2km. this distance can be walked in 15-20 min. The time it took for him to walk home as he mentioned in the PRDV video. A walk from the Mariott to his home would take about an hour.

I am not sure this is the moko pond and if it has been searched though maybe someone else knows.


Could this pond be the one in wich joran allegedly disposed of his dead dog(s)
Maybe the crab cage was dropped in this pond?


Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:11 pm
Los vaqueros tienen los pies profudamente en esa agua sucia. Estan seguro de sus maquinas. Babylonicos estan allí para recojer si es necesario. Desde Montaña a Moko no es mucho caminar.
Este mono esta contectado con las ondas de micro. Los buitres ya llegaron para comer de la angustía. Ya se bajo el pajarito del cable. Hay que esperar un poco para que se deje saber porque bota a sus perros muertos alli.

AllyinMiami Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:34 pm
The cowboys have their feet deep in the dirty water. They are confident in their equipment. Babylonians are there to pick up when necessary. From Montana to Moko there is not much to walk
The monkey is connected to a microwave. The monsters have come to eat from the anguished/ The birdie has come down from the cable/ we have to wait a while until it becomes known to all why he leaves all his dogs dead there

just thinking out loud criticize at will.

(http://i31.tinypic.com/2ho8pyb.jpg)

(http://i28.tinypic.com/2eckqrr.jpg)

(http://i30.tinypic.com/2z592m8.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 26, 2008, 10:29:40 AM
Does anybody know where the moko pond is in relation to jorans house
it was said he dumped his dead dogs there

it is described in this link but i can't find a location for it:
http://www.sarfa.org/news07-02-22HogaDamdiMoko.html


 Hi...I think it is close JE

I posted a link yesterday AM for a map...is it on there?

I googled a week or so back and didn't have much luck.

May not be able to reply any more ...as my dish keeps going out!
[/quote

The pond in question (MOKO) is right out near the Whitehouse Apartment.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 26, 2008, 10:36:08 AM
caps is that whitehouse anywhere near the pond on the maps i posted?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 26, 2008, 11:36:09 AM
Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:14 am
The road from the boy’s home leads to the dirty water. Look for Noord and look for Moko.
The cowboys feet are wet. They are not quickdraws, they will creep by the inch. It’s deep and wide. The Babylonians need this, before time runs out.

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:33 am
Find Aruba. Look for Noord. Look for Montaña. Look for Moko. Let your fingers connect the dots.
The cowboys feet are deeper in the dirty water. The vultures are hanging around and are ready to pounce. Hang on to your tubes.
The Simian doesn’t want to be right.

Find Aruba. Look for Noord. Look for Montaña. Look for Moko. Let your fingers connect the dots.

Just a thought:
Maybe Noord Montana and Moko are all geographical locations and not neighborhoods.
-what if by look for Noord he means the california lighthouse at the most northern point of the island.
-what if look for montana means just that: a mountain=Hooiberg

I drew a line from hooiberg to the lighthouse. If you follow this line (Let your fingers connect the dots)  there is a pond near moko right on this line

The distance from the pond to sloots house is about 2km. this distance can be walked in 15-20 min. The time it took for him to walk home as he mentioned in the PRDV video. A walk from the Mariott to his home would take about an hour.

I am not sure this is the moko pond and if it has been searched though maybe someone else knows.


Could this pond be the one in wich joran allegedly disposed of his dead dog(s)
Maybe the crab cage was dropped in this pond?


Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:11 pm
Los vaqueros tienen los pies profudamente en esa agua sucia. Estan seguro de sus maquinas. Babylonicos estan allí para recojer si es necesario. Desde Montaña a Moko no es mucho caminar.
Este mono esta contectado con las ondas de micro. Los buitres ya llegaron para comer de la angustía. Ya se bajo el pajarito del cable. Hay que esperar un poco para que se deje saber porque bota a sus perros muertos alli.

AllyinMiami Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:34 pm
The cowboys have their feet deep in the dirty water. They are confident in their equipment. Babylonians are there to pick up when necessary. From Montana to Moko there is not much to walk
The monkey is connected to a microwave. The monsters have come to eat from the anguished/ The birdie has come down from the cable/ we have to wait a while until it becomes known to all why he leaves all his dogs dead there

just thinking out loud criticize at will.

(http://i31.tinypic.com/2ho8pyb.jpg)

(http://i28.tinypic.com/2eckqrr.jpg)

(http://i30.tinypic.com/2z592m8.jpg)


The last two picture is the Soledad Pond:

Some People call it also the Slinja Pond but officialy it is the Soledad Pond


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 26, 2008, 11:42:53 AM
Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:14 am
The road from the boy’s home leads to the dirty water. Look for Noord and look for Moko.
The cowboys feet are wet. They are not quickdraws, they will creep by the inch. It’s deep and wide. The Babylonians need this, before time runs out.

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:33 am
Find Aruba. Look for Noord. Look for Montaña. Look for Moko. Let your fingers connect the dots.
The cowboys feet are deeper in the dirty water. The vultures are hanging around and are ready to pounce. Hang on to your tubes.
The Simian doesn’t want to be right.

Find Aruba. Look for Noord. Look for Montaña. Look for Moko. Let your fingers connect the dots.

Just a thought:
Maybe Noord Montana and Moko are all geographical locations and not neighborhoods.
-what if by look for Noord he means the california lighthouse at the most northern point of the island.
-what if look for montana means just that: a mountain=Hooiberg

I drew a line from hooiberg to the lighthouse. If you follow this line (Let your fingers connect the dots)  there is a pond near moko right on this line

The distance from the pond to sloots house is about 2km. this distance can be walked in 15-20 min. The time it took for him to walk home as he mentioned in the PRDV video. A walk from the Mariott to his home would take about an hour.

I am not sure this is the moko pond and if it has been searched though maybe someone else knows.


Could this pond be the one in wich joran allegedly disposed of his dead dog(s)
Maybe the crab cage was dropped in this pond?


Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:11 pm
Los vaqueros tienen los pies profudamente en esa agua sucia. Estan seguro de sus maquinas. Babylonicos estan allí para recojer si es necesario. Desde Montaña a Moko no es mucho caminar.
Este mono esta contectado con las ondas de micro. Los buitres ya llegaron para comer de la angustía. Ya se bajo el pajarito del cable. Hay que esperar un poco para que se deje saber porque bota a sus perros muertos alli.

AllyinMiami Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:34 pm
The cowboys have their feet deep in the dirty water. They are confident in their equipment. Babylonians are there to pick up when necessary. From Montana to Moko there is not much to walk
The monkey is connected to a microwave. The monsters have come to eat from the anguished/ The birdie has come down from the cable/ we have to wait a while until it becomes known to all why he leaves all his dogs dead there

just thinking out loud criticize at will.

(http://i31.tinypic.com/2ho8pyb.jpg)

(http://i28.tinypic.com/2eckqrr.jpg)

(http://i30.tinypic.com/2z592m8.jpg)


They are geographical locations.  The Moko area is where TES looked and tried to dive but there was too much garbage in there.  Noord is the area of the police station and a few other places could be of interest.  The Sloots live in Montanja.  Merian Ernest claimed these were areas of interest.  I am sure there are many ponds on that island that were never searched.  It would take an enormous use of manpower to drain even the smaller ones...given that...Aruba would rather waste their money on begging tourists to return than solving this case.

Those Dutch owned apartments are located near both Joran and Freddy...I would say within walking distance if necessary, but why walk when you have cars at your disposal? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 26, 2008, 01:05:17 PM
(http://)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 26, 2008, 01:06:33 PM
@Lala's I know the sloots live in the montanja neighborhood and that Noord is another neighborhood were the police station is. I just thought of Noord and Montana as specific locations/places instead of a general area. Hence the lighthouse and hooiberg. This "Let your fingers connect the dots" bugs me. But then again most of these shango/simian posts do LOL

@Caps  Could you show me on a map where this moko landfill, moko pond etc is?

Apparently there has up to 1983 also been a moko zoo which belonged to a certain Don Mansur. In 1983 they sold all the larger animals like bears etc to the Curacao zoo. Maybe someone knows it's former location?

Thanks for your input


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 26, 2008, 01:07:53 PM
Caps you re a mind reader. you answered my question before i posted it LOL Thx


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 26, 2008, 01:12:31 PM
the CAPS say: I receve my messeges from far away


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 26, 2008, 01:18:03 PM
From Websleuths...VBulletin site 2005:


08-28-2005, 11:28 PM
rollerbladr123 rollerbladr123
Registered User
   
Arambatziz-Zedan
Confusion over Freddy's last name is said to result from naming conventions which can be difficult for some to interpret. Apparently the name of both parents or their family names are taken at birth and Zedan may be Freddy's Mother's maiden name.


08-29-2005, 03:43 AM
upallnite upallnite is offline
Registered User
        
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 841
Hey rollerbladr!!!!
Honestly,I'm having real confusion over Freddies name.When I first,I meen very first,heard about those arrests of K2 and Freddie the other day I heard some newscaster on TV say his name was Frederick Arends or F.A.I know y'all are gonna think I'm crazy!!!I found an aruban list,it's in dutch so I couldn't read the title above the list,but I was doing a search on aruban students looking for the correct spelling of Arambatzis and this list came up and there is a Frederick Jacinthus Arends on list. It says he lives in Catiri Aruba,which is right by Oranjestad.Ok everyone tell me I'm a nut!!!I'll admit it freely.

08-29-2005, 06:42 AM
Larkit Larkit is offline
Registered User
    I've seen discussion elsewhere about this. I think there is indeed a Freddy Arends and there are others who heard reports that it was Arends who was arrested, but the last name got corrected quickly to the right guy.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 26, 2008, 01:19:58 PM
the CAPS say: I receve my messeges from far away

Shango:
All of Shango's information comes from the higher power, Olorum
Eyes of god may look from afar with great acuity (keeness of sight, hearing, intellect)
If a bird whispers an evil secret, the listener is not the sinner!
Not all messages come from a terrestrial origin.  ::MonkeyLaugh::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 26, 2008, 01:22:34 PM
More from the same site:

08-29-2005, 07:37 AM
Larkit Larkit is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by legalbee
Girasole, I thought about that monkey in the background too. Could it be heard from Freddie's house as he is said to be neighbor of Joran's? And could Freddie have lied about being at Joran's house that night because Joran PM'd Deepak saying he was home then got Freddie to go with him and Paulus to dispose of Natalee's body? Maybe the kids thought they would each be each other's alibi and Joran PM'd from Freddie's, not his own house a little after 3am. That would still triangulate on the cell phone records in the same area.
Is there a zoo in Aruba? If so, have the police looked at properties and areas close to the monkey cage, if there are any? Maybe the monkey cage happens to back up to a secluded, empty lot......or a home, shed, garage......whatever. Could it have been a parrot instead of a monkey?
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  #160 
Old 08-29-2005, 07:43 AM
Larkit Larkit is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2005
P


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassata11
She does sometimes make comments that raise my eyebrows as well. The video Of Paulus VS's backside is getting old.

I was just wondering why she never mentioned Freddie. I seriously feel he knows something. This thread has done a good job putting a circle around Joran and company. I think the police better check alibis. With their circle of friends, I don't know if any of the alibis are creditable.
NG gets on my nerves sometimes, too, and she can be unprofessionally abrasive for a lawyer, imo. But basically I like her okay and as for the PVDS footage, she can loop that 24/7 for all I care. He deserves to have his skulking, "No body, no case" butt shown in retreat all day long.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 26, 2008, 01:33:52 PM
To confuse the issue of Freddie's complete name even more lol-here is a snippet about Freddie's name from Abrams 26th August-obviously they have misspelled Arambatsis but they have Aaron in there-"Police also arrested another man; a friend and neighbor of lead suspect Joran van der Sloot, Freddie Aaron Batiz (ph). They say it‘s related to another case. " http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9118769/
Geraldo on his At-Large program this past Saturday announced Freddie's full name as Freddie Aaron Zedan Arambatziz -so there you go-maybe he has a few more names out there aside from his nicknames!



Freddy Aaron....Freddy Arends? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 26, 2008, 01:34:23 PM
the CAPS say: I receve my messeges from far away

 ::MonkeyHaHa::
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/CapsSmoking.gif)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 26, 2008, 01:43:46 PM
From RWV:

As I said before what about Freddy ? he's always with Joran an Deepak at the bar's an get togethers an his name hasnt come up yet ?

Posted by: NorthAla | Thursday, August 11, 2005 at 08:38 PM



Let's cloud things even further or maybe even clear it up.  I found this in the same area concerning Max Arends.



Possibly - this is Max Arends? - I remember this name early on as someone that came in for questioning by the LE.

Don't think it is Max-I know his father very well, and he told me he is not that close to Joran, and this was a month ago, and all the classmates were brought in for questioning-not only Max

Posted by: scubajap | Thursday, August 11, 2005 at 09:07 PM

Don't think it is Max-I know his father very well, and he told me he is not that close to Joran, and this was a month ago, and all the classmates were brought in for questioning-not only Max

Posted by: scubajap | August 11, 2005 09:07 PM

Is this the Max that is Lorenzo's alibi or is there another Max?

Posted by: (((AG))) | Thursday, August 11, 2005 at 09:08 PM

Just got off the phone with Bibi (Max,sr) Arends, Max's father. They are sitting in a movie theatre in Orlando, Florida at this very moment, because Max is going to school there. So I doubt he is giving a statement in Aruba. Bibi informs me Max has never stayed over in Joran's house.

Posted by: scubajap | Thursday, August 11, 2005 at 09:13 PM


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on February 26, 2008, 02:26:11 PM
Here are some pics of the 'pond' in Moko.


(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r139/songluva/moko3.jpg)

(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r139/songluva/moko2.jpg)

(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r139/songluva/moko4.jpg)

(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r139/songluva/moko.jpg)


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:01 pm
If the door to eden is to be opened with that key, it will be tomorrow
or forever remained closed


This is when Paulus and Steve Croes were released and the next day the Moko quarry search began and ended.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 26, 2008, 02:47:30 PM
@truthseeker thx for the pics. i guess the word pond is flattering things a bit


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on February 26, 2008, 02:48:41 PM
@truthseeker thx for the pics. i guess the word pond is flattering things a bit

LOL.  Yeah, the place looks like a dump.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 26, 2008, 02:53:22 PM
@truthseeker thx for the pics. i guess the word pond is flattering things a bit

LOL.  Yeah, the place looks like a dump.

Ohh yehh it is a big dump


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 26, 2008, 03:02:41 PM
the CAPS say: I receve my messeges from far away

 ::MonkeyHaHa::
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/CapsSmoking.gif)

Thanks for lighting the puff puff, Now I going to exhange some gold bars  ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: kippy on February 26, 2008, 03:03:06 PM
Maybe someone else needs to google Freddy Arambatzis/Arends.....

Just who the heck is Freddy? ::MonkeyConfused::

(a.k.a. Locoman Pimp,” a.k.a. “badboy_956,” a.k.a. “Freddy Zedan” nickname “Fefi”)

 according to Joran’s book.

http://www.fokkinel.com/tag/joran-van-der-sloot/



Do all the pimps refer to themselves as "locoman pimp" or is this just Freddy's nickname?  I remember while reading the internet messages between Joran and Depak (or whoever it really was) the Joran left a message saying "locoman pimp hehhehehe". Wondering if it was Freddy at Sloots house leaving that message pretending to be Joran or if Joran was referring to Depak and himself as locoman pimps.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 26, 2008, 03:24:50 PM
yapperz1
Scared Monkey
Posts: 1206
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #1629 on: February 01, 2008, 10:07:12 PM »
   Reply with quoteQuote
Caps:

VERENIGING VAN EIGENAREN MONTANA APPARTEMENTEN 
 
Business address MONTANJA 51, NOORD 
Legal form  ASSOCIATION 
Name of the VERENIGING VAN EIGENAREN MONTANA APPARTEMENTEN 
company/foundation/association:
Statutory seat  ARUBA 
Date of 21 JULY 1995 
incorporation/commencement:
     
NOT IN POSSESION OF A BUSINESS ESTABLISHMENT LICENCE 
 
BOARD MEMBERS/AUTHORIZED PERSONS 
 
VAN DIJK, JOHANNES; 
Residing in  NOORDERPLASSENWEG 38, 1316 US ALMERE, THE NETHERLANDS 
Born in  THE NETHERLANDS, HAARLEM on 12 JANUARY 1962 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position 
Effective  6 JUNE 2006 
Authority  RESTRICTED 
 
VAN DER LUYT, ALBERTUS; 
Residing in  CATHARINADAL 9, 5235 BJ DEN BOSCH, THE NETHERLANDS 
Born in  THE NETHERLANDS, NOORDWIJK on 28 OCTOBER 1959 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  TREASURER 
Effective  1 NOVEMBER 2006 
Authority  RESTRICTED 
 
BARNAS, PETRONELLA GEERTRUIDA; 
Residing in  VAN HALEWIJNBAAN 329, 2274 TK VOORBURG, THE NETHERLANDS 
Born in  THE NETHERLANDS, VOORBURG on 7 APRIL 1970 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  SECRETARY 
Effective  1 NOVEMBER 2006 
Authority  RESTRICTED 
   

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j178/dodie_photos/FreddytoMontanaParkapartments.jpg)


I think these are the Dutch owned apartments you see in the upper right corner of the photo.  If I am wrong, Caps will correct me.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 26, 2008, 03:27:10 PM
Maybe someone else needs to google Freddy Arambatzis/Arends.....

Just who the heck is Freddy? ::MonkeyConfused::

(a.k.a. Locoman Pimp,” a.k.a. “badboy_956,” a.k.a. “Freddy Zedan” nickname “Fefi”)

 according to Joran’s book.

http://www.fokkinel.com/tag/joran-van-der-sloot/



Do all the pimps refer to themselves as "locoman pimp" or is this just Freddy's nickname?  I remember while reading the internet messages between Joran and Depak (or whoever it really was) the Joran left a message saying "locoman pimp hehhehehe". Wondering if it was Freddy at Sloots house leaving that message pretending to be Joran or if Joran was referring to Depak and himself as locoman pimps.

LOCO means CRAZY in spanish and papiamento and it is also the way to identyfie your group gang. Thee is the MADIKI PIMP, PLAYAPABAO PIMP, LOCOMAN PIMP,

I think they got the idea from these rap songs that they watch on you tumbe.

There is also a older PIMPs that are in the escort bussiness wh call themself "I'LL BE PIMPING ALL MY LIVE" and that whtat they do for a living.. Why the government allows it.."Must be friends and famaly" connected.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 26, 2008, 03:36:03 PM
I think Simian was telling us who he was talking about...

"cool and crazy" guy....."locoman" pimp

It has been in plain view all the time.  Oops!  I just mixed my Shango with my Simian.  ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 26, 2008, 03:47:58 PM
or clients:

Both pimps and prostitutes generally referred to their activities as “the game.”
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf

dirty hand:
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

The fallen judge and the singing card (DirtyHand) are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

Children of the Elders play in the maze

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation (Arawaks)
meet, under cover of delusion.
Dirty Hand is the link! (between young babylonians & the Arawaks)
He holds the real key (to the poison house)

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:39 am
The arawaks must hunt the lions
in the place of darkness
house of secrets

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating
afraid to walk through the maze

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Why did the girl owe money?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 26, 2008, 03:55:25 PM
Joran June 14 PV:
Deepak and I had agreed that we should talk a lot on the phone and "Chat" a lot on internet to make our story believable. I must also state that I had talked to Freddy and my parents about the fact that Deepak could have gone back to the girl. Freddy also said that if Deepak indeed went back to the girl that I was in big trouble because I was the last person seen with the girl. Freddy had told me that to be safe I should record a conversation between Deepak, Satish and myself.


What does that mean?  RECORD a conversation?  Interesting what you can find by reading over and over again.


Joran June 9 PV:
To your question with whom I regularly go to Carlos & Charlies, I answer you that I regularly go there with "Freddy ZEDAN" and "Jaime CARASQUIA". Freddy is a Venezuelan and Jaime is a Columbian. The boy named "Koen GOTENBOS" also regularly goes out with us. The names of my three friends are in the memory of my mobile phone. Freddy is under the name "Fefi" and Koen under the name "Cul".



Deepak June 10 PV:
 To your question whether these are local girls or tourists, I can state the following. They are tourists.
To your question as to who is the one who makes the first move towards the girls we are going to pick up, I can state the following. It usually is Joran or another friend with the name Freddy Zedan.



Deepak June 11 PV:
To your question whether I know if Joran told the story to someone else, than I can say the following. I know Joran told his story to his friend named Freddy ZEDAN. Freddy lives behind Joran. His mobile phone number is in my mobile phone.

To your question whether Joran told me what he had told Freddy, I can say the following. Joran told me that he had told Freddy the truth and the made up story. I know that he trusts Freddy more because they have known each other for a long time. If you go and talk to Freddy, he will tell you the made up story and maybe also the truth.
[/b]

Satish June 13 PV:
Joran´s parents were also in his apartment. His mother arrived that day from Holland. She wanted to know everything. We told her what had happened. We didn´t tell his parents the truth. We told them the story we made up. His mother did not want us to stay long. We left after an hour. We drove straight home. We arrived home around 11 p.m. My brother and I decided to inform our parents when they got back from work. On Thursday June 2, 2005 around 00.30 a.m. we told our parents about what happened. We sat at the porch behind our house. We told our parents the made up story. The story in which we dropped the girl at Holiday Inn. During the days after that Thursday, we met Joran more often to discuss the case of Natalee. I have to tell though, we could never talk alone because Joran´s father came between us all the time, to hear what we had to say. Joran´s father wanted to know everything but we did not tell him the truth. Except Freddy, nobody knew we left Joran and the girl behind at the Marriot Beach. To answer your question whether Joran drives his parents' car every now and then, I can say he has no driver´s license. His parents do not allow him to drive the car, and he even does not do that in secret. Joran can drive a car, however. He once drove my mother´s car. I have only contact with Freddy during the weekends, when we go out.

Normally during the week I have no contact with Freddy. Only when we go out in the weekend. To answer your question when it was the last time Deepak´s car was cleaned: The last time Deepak and I cleaned the car it was Sunday May 29, 2005, during the evening. The car is cleaned once a week. Usually by me. The car wash usually takes place on Fridays and Saturdays during the afternoon. Sunday May 29, 2005 was the only exception. But the cleaning happened, as I said, because of the ants that entered the car.


Freddy can't tell the truth!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: ospainter on February 26, 2008, 04:09:11 PM
HI Everyone,

I wonder why Simian and Shango chose SM to post their messages?

Dan's site was in full swing at that time with Aruban posters. There were probably others. But for some reason they chose SM. Did someone "bring" them here?

I have been reading back on the FP of SM during the early days in June and see several posters from Aruba.

By the 12th of June several Aruban posters were very upset with the mention of "coverup", the media, and Americans in general they are no longer here but wonder

what they would say now? It is obvious to me 1 poster didn't like the Gov't of Aruba but liked the ALE.

Just things that me go hummmmm.

Hi Lalas

MOO

OS





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: martini on February 26, 2008, 04:09:20 PM
Freddy was used as a patsy: a person who is easily manipulated aka as a Sucker.

The cover-up started at the beginning, lie to Freddy and have Freddy tell what he believes to be the truth. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 26, 2008, 04:11:07 PM
yapperz1
Scared Monkey
Posts: 1206
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #1629 on: February 01, 2008, 10:07:12 PM »
   Reply with quoteQuote
Caps:

VERENIGING VAN EIGENAREN MONTANA APPARTEMENTEN 
 
Business address MONTANJA 51, NOORD 
Legal form  ASSOCIATION 
Name of the VERENIGING VAN EIGENAREN MONTANA APPARTEMENTEN 
company/foundation/association:
Statutory seat  ARUBA 
Date of 21 JULY 1995 
incorporation/commencement:
     
NOT IN POSSESION OF A BUSINESS ESTABLISHMENT LICENCE 
 
BOARD MEMBERS/AUTHORIZED PERSONS 
 
VAN DIJK, JOHANNES; 
Residing in  NOORDERPLASSENWEG 38, 1316 US ALMERE, THE NETHERLANDS 
Born in  THE NETHERLANDS, HAARLEM on 12 JANUARY 1962 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position 
Effective  6 JUNE 2006 
Authority  RESTRICTED 
 
VAN DER LUYT, ALBERTUS; 
Residing in  CATHARINADAL 9, 5235 BJ DEN BOSCH, THE NETHERLANDS 
Born in  THE NETHERLANDS, NOORDWIJK on 28 OCTOBER 1959 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  TREASURER 
Effective  1 NOVEMBER 2006 
Authority  RESTRICTED 
 
BARNAS, PETRONELLA GEERTRUIDA; 
Residing in  VAN HALEWIJNBAAN 329, 2274 TK VOORBURG, THE NETHERLANDS 
Born in  THE NETHERLANDS, VOORBURG on 7 APRIL 1970 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  SECRETARY 
Effective  1 NOVEMBER 2006 
Authority  RESTRICTED 
   

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j178/dodie_photos/FreddytoMontanaParkapartments.jpg)


I think these are the Dutch owned apartments you see in the upper right corner of the photo.  If I am wrong, Caps will correct me.

Yes they are

Simian says:

90.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx

…they boys met around the pool in Montanja.

…unless the package from The Hague says that he is implicated. The evidence has him in a legal checkmate. He cannot deny.

Only one piece is missing.
Around the pool the Hindus were told what to say. They did not know why. They were asked to protect the boy. The father was not there, but he knew what to do.

The Hindus thought the girl would reappear.

Not even a confession will help.

One witness is not a witness.

The body is needed.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 26, 2008, 04:18:48 PM
HI Everyone,

I wonder why Simian and Shango chose SM to post their messages?

Dan's site was in full swing at that time with Aruban posters. There were probably others. But for some reason they chose SM. Did someone "bring" them here?

I have been reading back on the FP of SM during the early days in June and see several posters from Aruba.

By the 12th of June several Aruban posters were very upset with the mention of "coverup", the media, and Americans in general they are no longer here but wonder

what they would say now? It is obvious to me 1 poster didn't like the Gov't of Aruba but liked the ALE.

Just things that me go hummmmm.

Hi Lalas

MOO

OS





LOL If we knew then what we know now...we all would have paid attention to the posters better.  I feel sure Simian posted under other names as did Shango.  I hold less credence to Shango's rantings than Simian since I know that Simian was or was connected to ALE in some way. Shango didn't get that inside info and therefore was out of the loop...the results....jealousy. 

Simian and Checkme and Lucy and Allyinmiami were best buds and most likley IM with each other then came to the FP and held court for all to see.  Don't you think?  Not saying they didn't know what was happening..just saying.

MOO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: ospainter on February 26, 2008, 05:12:57 PM
Hey Lalas

I am a slow reader and must admit I skipped over some posts to get to Simain, then realized in order to get a feel for the FP I had to go back to earlier.

What I did read of Simian's posts there was a poster "kirsten or kristen" that would explain what Simian was saying, and Simian never said her explanations were wrong.

Don't think kirsten/Kristen (small k) knew Simian though.

In a day or two I might be up to the Simian posts..Lots of reading..

IMO, Simian was connected to ALE somehow, really don't think he/she is ALE yet might change my mind about that in the future.

Yep, never know our enemies do we, but, but, but they sounded so sincere..They wanted to help, they wanted to find Natalee, they wanted justice..

Plain and simple they wanted the media out, they wanted the boards shut down, they wanted us to shut up, they wanted the family to leave, they wanted business as

usual and that was around June 8th maybe 10th..

Boy, a few from back then are a thorn in my side..

Well back to reading..

MOO

OS


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Chata on February 26, 2008, 05:30:55 PM
CAPS posted:

90.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx

…they boys met around the pool in Montanja.

…unless the package from The Hague says that he is implicated. The evidence has him in a legal checkmate. He cannot deny.

Only one piece is missing.  Around the pool the Hindus were told what to say. They did not know why. They were asked to protect the boy. The father was not there, but he knew what to do.

The Hindus thought the girl would reappear.

Not even a confession will help.

One witness is not a witness.

The body is needed.  

CAPS,
Joran has now confessed and conveniently removed everyone from involvement, with the exception of Daury.  Does this leave the way clear for Natalee to be recovered or will this never happen???  Just your opinion as an Aruban.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 26, 2008, 05:58:03 PM
CAPS posted:

90.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx

…they boys met around the pool in Montanja.

…unless the package from The Hague says that he is implicated. The evidence has him in a legal checkmate. He cannot deny.

Only one piece is missing.  Around the pool the Hindus were told what to say. They did not know why. They were asked to protect the boy. The father was not there, but he knew what to do.

The Hindus thought the girl would reappear.

Not even a confession will help.

One witness is not a witness.

The body is needed.  

CAPS,
Joran has now confessed and conveniently removed everyone from involvement, with the exception of Daury.  Does this leave the way clear for Natalee to be recovered or will this never happen???  Just your opinion as an Aruban.

well shango left someting very interesting in his posting...it is about the 46th.

if the holloways go Sloots vs Holloway in court, it will go nowhere. but if The holloway go for a Group vs a Group then they can use the 46th to get justice.

they should go USA citizen vs DUTCH citizen. A group of innocent on vacation beeing terrorized, prowled for a group pleasure leadind to Murder. Who killed her the group.

Individuality case then can be tried via extradiction to face the USA Justice after the 46th issue their verdict.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 26, 2008, 07:19:31 PM
HI Everyone,

I wonder why Simian and Shango chose SM to post their messages?

Dan's site was in full swing at that time with Aruban posters. There were probably others. But for some reason they chose SM. Did someone "bring" them here?

I have been reading back on the FP of SM during the early days in June and see several posters from Aruba.

By the 12th of June several Aruban posters were very upset with the mention of "coverup", the media, and Americans in general they are no longer here but wonder

what they would say now? It is obvious to me 1 poster didn't like the Gov't of Aruba but liked the ALE.

Just things that me go hummmmm.

Hi Lalas

MOO

OS





Yes RWV was busy as were other sites.  I have no idea why Shango and Simian chose to post on the front page of SM.  I do know that Simian also posted at RWV as Marian Ernest.  We still have many Aruban posters on the front page of SM and they still don't like mention of a coverup or Boycott.  We now have many more from the Netherlands that now understand more what Natalee's family has gone through.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 26, 2008, 07:29:31 PM
CAPS posted:

90.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx

…they boys met around the pool in Montanja.

…unless the package from The Hague says that he is implicated. The evidence has him in a legal checkmate. He cannot deny.

Only one piece is missing.  Around the pool the Hindus were told what to say. They did not know why. They were asked to protect the boy. The father was not there, but he knew what to do.

The Hindus thought the girl would reappear.

Not even a confession will help.

One witness is not a witness.

The body is needed.  

CAPS,
Joran has now confessed and conveniently removed everyone from involvement, with the exception of Daury.  Does this leave the way clear for Natalee to be recovered or will this never happen???  Just your opinion as an Aruban.

well shango left someting very interesting in his posting...it is about the 46th.

if the holloways go Sloots vs Holloway in court, it will go nowhere. but if The holloway go for a Group vs a Group then they can use the 46th to get justice.

they should go USA citizen vs DUTCH citizen. A group of innocent on vacation beeing terrorized, prowled for a group pleasure leadind to Murder. Who killed her the group.

Individuality case then can be tried via extradiction to face the USA Justice after the 46th issue their verdict.




USA vs Dutch will never happen in a court of law.  I would be more than shocked if it did.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on February 26, 2008, 07:33:12 PM
Must say that TigerGirl & Shango seem to be the
ones offering the goods, so far.
p.s. 'Seedy' was female.

OK-where did they get that information. Just cause someone posted it, doesn't always make it true-I can attest to that plenty.
Seedy never gave anything away to indicate his/her sex-I wonder how this could be found out.
Everyone assumed I was male until I corrected them. This is what I am talking about-a lot of the things you present here as fact are only assumptions that people have picked up from here and there on the internet. They have no back up and that doesn't make them fact.


Posted by: scubajap | Thursday, August 18, 2005 at 09:03 AM


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on February 26, 2008, 07:43:53 PM
I always found the week of the TES pond/quarry search
to be a pivotal part of the coverup,
especially in the way that week relates to simian/shango

ie: simian was either doublecrossed that week or out-ed as an ALE leak

plus: when did shango start/stop posting?
when did sim stop posting?

this is something I worked on long ago/far away in another place.
please feel free to correct or add to my interpretation

the simian/shango postings lose much of their value
when they stand alone ...
but when you read them interwoven w/ the ongoing events
their meaning is much more clear

some of what simian said was obviously misleading,
both in terms of logic & what we now know ...
& that may have been of his/her own free will

"Who said they all had sex with her? Nobody did as far as I know"
sounded iffy but perhaps believable on June 22, 2005
 
sex is the motive in prolly 85% of missing/murdered females cases.
perhaps the plan was that we will not play up the sex angle here,
no telling ::ahem:: where it may :::cough::: lead

the back beat is the alibi, the alibi, break the alibi:
Lorenzo's alibi? ... provided by Max Arendsz?
Max, friend of Peeps ... who told us that neither he nor Max know Joran or Lorenzo
("we don't want to know him, we mind our own business" =
something similar to omerta/sicilian code of silence).

the not knowing Joran part is interesting in light of Peeps' statement:
"this Joran is f**king sly & has a rarely seen strong character".
interesting observation re someone he claims to know nothing about.
Peeps also mentions his own talks to the detectives from time to time.
small circle of people here, interesting people.
little teeny tiny small world

perhps simian's ALE source did not have the true inside info.
the source knew some of the truth,
but those higher up ... covered up.
did the source did not know about the cover up?
simian was led to believe that he/she was an "insider"
& that was true to a degree

simian's postings served a purpose
or they would have been stopped or discredited

then again, simian WAS discredited as soon as shango came on board:
"Who else plays in the orchestra ... a Babylonian?"

a couple ways the doublecross could have unfolded:

#1 the original plan was to have the body recovered
in the waters of the quarry
but for whatever reasons that changed:
too much violence done to the body
or just plain wanting to stonewall,
insisting it can & will blow over eventually w/o the body

or

#2 recovering the body in the quarry was never really the plan.
a good way to find the leak on your team is to plant false info
& then see who runs w/ it

Sat June 25:

7:59 pm simian says:
The fires burned high and bright. Even Saint John denied he knew.
The smoke will clear soon. The elder can’t deny. The son can’t talk.
names morph across cultures/languages.
Jan van der Straaten: Jan=Johannes=John

keeping in mind that when the codetalkers say something
is as important as what they say,
shango's first post comes the day before the quarry search,
the day of the double cross

Sun June 26, Paulus is released & goes home.
Steve Croes' release is ordered
but he doesn't walk out until the next morning

Sun June 26:

2:58 pm simian says:
The music man’s song was not on the bill.
Steve Croes coming forward w/ alibi, a rogue move unanticipated by those in charge

3:09 pm shango says:
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….
"hello, I'm here & I know as much as you do, perhaps more.
please enlighten our readers"

3:18 pm simian says:
The alibi needs to be broken. The party-go-ers need to be pressured.
They have seen from the corners of their eyes. The house was dusted.

3:18 pm shango says:
Simian, why was the key from the Babylons Palace
not used to open the Sumerians Door ?

3:26 pm shango says:
Simian, his lordship did not bring the expected key,
the door never existed

3:30 pm shango says:
Simian, his lordship did not bring the key for the Arawaks.
 
3:33 pm shango says:
Simian, His Lordship did not bring the key found in the car,
it did not exist

3:40 pm shango says:
The key does not exist

 the refrain seems to be that there is a change in plans,
which simian refuses to believe.
something re the evidence/a witness that is not going as planned

4:04 pm simian says:
The wire has been shaken. The bird has left.

Paulus is released,
a fact not announced to the media for 2 hours/approx 6 pm

then simian is silent for many hours.
shango lays out that Joran will take the fall, in that:
even w/o a body as proof of murder,
he will forever be known as the one last seen w/ Natalee

5:04 pm shango says:
Prepare the fires. We need a sacrifice. A babylonian beast.
Young Lamb der Sloot

5:51 pm ConcernedUK says:
Does Shango liaise with Simian?

6:30 pm shango says:
Shango is not a Simian Doppleganger and has his own messengers
 
8:04 pm shango says:
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice
for the Arawaks and the cowboys.
All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat.
The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well.

finally, hours later, simian returns,
referring to Paulus & saying I told you so.
what has simian been told?
there is no loss of confidence,
simian is still sure of his/her source
because he/she still predicts that the body will be found.

simian & shango continue to disagree over tomorrow's outcome
following the quarry search.
they quickly respond to each other,
nearly ignoring the other posters in the forum.
any gaps between their back/forth are filled by shango's posts,
one after another, no room for all of them here

11:01 pm simian says:
If the door to eden is to be opened with that key,
it will be tomorrow or forever remained closed

11:05 pm shango says:
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time

11:09 pm simian says:
The whisperer is on the line. The Babylonians know what happened,
but their hands are tied. They do not own the hammer nor the block.
The owner of the hammer and the block will never carry the package
from the Hague. The trias works infallibly.
The party-go-ers need to be pinched, but no one wants to be the cafone.
Including the boy. Too much is at stake and he is no Ajax.
He is biting his tongue so he won’t be able to speak. So afraid he is.
 
IMO the whisperer is simian's source.
sim is saying his/her info is fresh & he/she still believes it

11:12 pm shango says:
Even Flying Birds Sing. If the key does not arrive tomorrow,
that door to Eden will remain closed

11:19 pm simian says:
The Simian asks that his words not be confused with anyone else’s.

11:23 pm simian says:
Who took the boy to the party? Who took him home?
Therein lies the third act. Look up the Simian’s posts from days ago.
 
11:37 pm simian says:
How can so many gamblers be wrong about the girl?
This is unbelievable.
The Babylonians need to pinch the ravers.
That will need to happen tomorrow.
The Simian is leaving.

12:39 am simian says:
Watch tomorrow, but do not speak, and it will all unfold before you

obviously still confident that his/her info is correct:
the body will be recovered tomorrow

12:54 am simian says:
I am leaving. I am done.

Mon June 27, the day of the quarry search.
there are late-morning reports that 2 search dogs have a "hit"

posters were discussing the DirtyHand clues & casino ownership
& somehow arabs were brought up.
ConcernedUK became confused & posted:

Very disjointed
Dirty Hand is casino link to crimes involving,
but bigger than, Natalee missing.
Arabs are related to this Island????
Is the kasino owned by Arabs?? Anyone??
Arabs do not equal terrorists. I understand that.
Is Dirty Hand an Arab?

Babalu answered: chief of polis.
Lucy's later post (below) does also & shango gives them both a
LOOK AT THIS, THREADSURFERS ... repeatedly

12:30 am Babalu says:
ConcernedUK, no, I guess he is head of some local official corps.
He is the guy that knows everything and that has been
in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself,
so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee
and he is the chief of Polis.

4:00 am shango says:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon
with his 12:30 posting

now the critical day, TES is beginning the quarry search.
5 hour break: no simian/no shango

Mon June 27:

9:13 am simian says:
Lack of evidence is not proof of innocence.
The cowboys are looking everywhere,
but the land and waters hold many secrets.
The Babylonians need to keep an eye on the cowboys.
The process muct be protected.
The ravers need to be pinched.

10:51 am simian says:
The Babylonians and the cowboys have swarmed the dirty waters.
The dead dogs are stinking.

10:59 am simian says:
The cowboys’ steel and wires are screaming.
The dirty water is large, deep and too wide,
but they are sure there is light on their screen.
The Babylonians will be proven right. All along they were right.
The story given by the gamblers might check out after all.

11:14 am simian says:
The road from the boy’s home leads to the dirty water.
Look for Noord and look for Moko. The cowboys feet are wet.
They are not quickdraws, they will creep by the inch.
It’s deep and wide. The Babylonians need this, before time runs out

11:33 am simian says:
Find Aruba. Look for Noord. Look for Montaña. Look for Moko.
Let your fingers connect the dots.
The cowboys feet are deeper in the dirty water.
The vultures are hanging around and are ready to pounce.
Hang on to your tubes. The Simian doesn’t want to be right.

11:37 am simian says:
Her decapitated body to be found. Her head to wash up on shore later.

11:39 am simian says:
Why does anyone want to be the Simian’s doppelganger.
The Simian finds that to be counter productive.

11:46 am simian says:
I have not left. I do not want to be copied however
and would like to stay and speak.

11:49 am simian says:
I leave now. The island is stirring.

11:58 am simian says:
They have found her. Watch your news stations for this one.
I said this was to happen. You can praise The Simian later.

12:08 pm simian says: 
THEY FOUND HER BODY!!

simian then makes a few posts in spanish, translation of one is:

12:11 pm
he said to keep watching the news,
and that he apologizes for the confusion,
but he is tired of people trying to impersonate him

shango has been silent all morning
until simian announces the body is found, then:

12:12 pm shango says:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon
with his 12:30 AM posting.
If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found
 
12:26 pm shango says:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon
with his 12:30 AM posting.
Simian your Doppleganger is with us

12:28 pm shango says:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon
with his 12:30 AM posting

 shango knows the body will not be found, while simian is still unaware.
shango begins to repeatedly point the readers toward Babalu's post
re polis involvment, since they are definitely involved if DirtyHand is polis.
we sit in front of the tv for hours, waiting to hear results of the search,
nothing comes ... & simian/shango are silent for 8 hours until:

9:41 pm shango says:
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA

9:44 pm shango says:
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:30 A.M. Post.
DirtyHand is alive

9:46 pm
shango: Shango said the key to the Hague did not exist
that door to eden remains closed
until the house with the path
But not of gold
is entered
 
9:48 pm shango says:
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

10:30 pm drax says:
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles =
they weren’t on the beach?

10:32 pm shango says:
THE DRAX SCORES
 
shango wasn't into idle chat & if he/she referred to a post
then that meant it was significant in some way.
there was much discussion of Natalee being taken to a rave,
XTC being the drug of choice,
Joran either leaving her there or being made to leave her there, then:  

10:45 pm shango says:
Windows looking onto Babylon are being opened by the ThreadSurfers

10:56 pm Lucy says:
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.

10:57 pm drax says:
DirtyHand has walked through the maze:…is DirtyHand Poppa VDS?

11:01 pm shango says:
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer

11:04 pm shango says:
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post

11:13 pm shango says:
Lucy spoke at 10:56

11:48 pm shango says:
The Simian was incorrect about the package from the Hague.
I told the Simian, but the Simian would not listen.
The simian is not a simian, but an austrolopithecus
 
11:52 pm shango says:
Threadsurfers on other beaches are oblivious to the Maze and the lions.
Without exposure, the arawaks will deceive the cowboys,
they will leave without loot

since shango posted in "our" forum,
other beaches are the other forums besides SM.
he was saying that we were the ones who were working his clues
& getting close to solving the puzzle

11:59 pm shango says:
Only those who cRave music go into the Maze

only those who take XTC go to the rave parties.
we haven't heard from simian for 12 hours.
no body recovered & no posts from simian

Tues June 28, the day following the quarry search:
 
10:17 am simian says:
hello news from the seas will rise today
 
has simian now been told that the body is in the ocean?
is that true or is more misinformation being fed to him/her?
a meek thing to say after the over-the-top reporting the previous day,
that the body had been found.
no acknowledgment is made of the error

Wed June 28:

12:09 am subdude says:
Raves as in XTC parties.

12:11 am shango says:
All the Arawaks know the Maze which plays the poison songs

12:14 am shango says:
How those innocent young flies enter the trap with honey laden notes

12:14 am (aruban poster) Yliana:
And of course you have what we call the mobile pharmacies (aka drug dealers)

12:18 am Big Pappy says:
Yliana, Can you name some places immediately associated with music
and young people on the island other than the bars?

12:22 am Yliana says:
pappy - we don’t have many places like that -
kids usually hang out on the streets or in clubs
because there are no other places to hang out.
Oh, I forgot a big one - Moomba beach - (near Holliday Inn) -
oooh a big one!

12:23 am shango says:
Follow the notes
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation
meet, under cover of delusion.
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.
Tell the cowboys!

12:23 am subdude says:
Yliana: Why a big one?

12:26 am Yliana says:
Subdude - Moomba beach is near the beach under the dark skies
and it’s known that bartenders serve more than drinks.
Especially when it’s full moon party night
 
12:28 am shango says:
Not all lions leave their den
a house party

12:30 am Yliana says:
Most of the cafes are Dutch owned.
The Paddock and the Black Hog Saloon are two wild places
where the Dutch frequent - not much of a young crowd though.
Clubs in hotels come to mind too

12:34 am Yliana says:
There are many ‘country’ houses where parties are held.
And these houses are not really mazes
but have different rooms where things can happen
 
12:34 am subdude says:
Babylonians are Dutch because Dutch legal system in Aruba, I believe.
Arawaks are Arubans.
Children of Babylonians could be Dutch kids
meeting with Arubans “under cover of delusion” —
thinking they are not noticed. I am struggling — just spit balling.

12:35 am Yliana says:
But I seriously doubt there would have been a party on a school night
in a country house. It was after all Tuesday!

 she's half-right.
it was a school night but it was not a tuesday

12:37 am shango says:
Yliana and Subdude have both opened windows
which look into the heart of babylon
do not stray from your paths
you hold the key in hand

12:39 am shango says:
The threadsurfers are opening the door to babylon
be careful of the lions
DirtyHand does not have them tamed
but he can enter the den
tell the cowboys

1:05 am subdude says:
Yliana, Shango mentioned we had opened windows
to the heart of Babylon just after our exchange regarding countryhouses.
Dutch kids and Arubans meeting out in the country thinking no one noticed.
Country house of the dealers which the police chief has been in.

Shango?

1:11 am shango says:
See Subdude / Iliana 12:34

1:19 am jetline says:
Shango, Do you know all of this because you were at the rave
and witnessed what happened to Natalee
or did someone else at the rave witness what happened and confide in you?
Either way you need to report this to the appropriate authorities.
If your story happens to be true and you knew it all along,
you could be facing serious criminal charges.
Otherwise, I think it is safe to assume that you are playing
some kind of sick game and leading all readers on a wild goose chase.
If the latter is true, I think your IP should be blocked.

1:32 am shango says:
For the doubters: You do not need to see a grain of sand in your eye
to know it is there

1:43 am simian says: 
The Simian has a handicap of 12.

simian was correct re 12 previous facts/statements?

1:52 am simian says:
The Simian says that The Simian only reports developments ahead of time.
The Simian thinks was is going on is shameless. Playing with feelings.
The Simian’s umbilical is buried close to the heart of the island.
NOBODY EVER try to put us down. The Simian hates what he has been reading.
All things must pass.

1:55 am shango says:
Find the music. Only David left the den alive

2:01 am simian says:
The Simian is getting out. Knows Shango, knows Shock me, knows Checkme.
Do not underestimate the power of the ping.
Shango is a dumb copycat. Maybe the Simian should place a call on you.
Get you 8 days with a hole to take a dump in.
Complementary peanut butter on stale bread for you, you fool.
The Simian is angry. Over and out.

2:09 am simian says:
The Simian is disapointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom,
but like to say the he only reports ahead of time.
The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources.
Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.
Seeing how this has been used to foul,
the Simian will again say that he will retire.

you can report ahead of time
only if you know what is planned to happen.
"seeing how this has been used to foul" refers to being misled/lied to,
being used to spread false information re the body being recovered

2:13 am Robalo33 says:
someone wrote earlier the simeon was an austrolopithecus,
which is an early man, not a monkey.
But simian, more of the stuff this shango says seems more real
than your predictions.
Your predictions about the hague two days ago were wrong.
u were also wrong about the searchers finding natalee

2:15 am Robalo33 says:
also that simeon never typed anything when he was upset.
i believe that is a simeon poser
 
2:18am simian says:
F**k the poetry. The Simian is a frenchman. Blue blood if you should know.

2:21am simian says:
The Simian doesn’t make predictions.
Only gives the group information ahead of time.
Predictions are for fools. This is the Simian.
No me hagan mofa.
Estoy molesto por las bobedades de Shango y Shock y Checkme.
Se creen, pero no son.
 
translation: I will not be mocked.
I am bothered by the bobedades (?) of Shango and Shock and Checkme. 
They are believed, but should not be.

2:21am Robalo33 says:
J’aime mieux passer les temps avec un femme comme vous Simian
 
 translation: I would rather spend time with a woman like you Simian.

2:23am Robalo33 says:
Simian tu no hablo nada de veridad todavia,
‘ta siempre la misma vaina con usted cabron?
 
Simian you still do not speak anything true,
is it always the same with you, b*tch?

2:24am shango says:
This Simian is not the Simian. It is a Doppleganger.

2:27 am shango says:
Crypticism leads to tributaries of thought
which would not usually leave the MainStream

2:28am simian says:
Cabron seras tu, pendejo. Yo trato de pasar la informacion antes de tiempo,
pero Uds. no entienden y creen que todo se soluciona por ser gringo.
No hago predicciones y tampoco nunca dije que sabía que paso esa noche.
Je ne compris pas quesque tu dire. Que je suis une femme?
La vie n’est pas comment tu pense.
 
translation: You're the b*tch, a**hole. 
I try to pass the information ahead of time, but you do not understand
and believe that everything is solved, being a foreigner. 
I do not make predictions and I never knew what happened that night.
I don't understand what you're saying. You think I'm a woman?
Life is not what you think it is.

2:32am simian says:
Shango, you have been pinged. No pone bo mes na liña.
E cosnan cu bo a papia awe por haci’bo dolor mañan.
Cera bo boca y no papia di loke bo no sa. Bai drumi, paso ta laat.
Hopi hende ta lesa loke bo ta skibi.
Nan lanta na porta di bo cas mañan, no spanta.

translation: Shango, get real, do not place yourself at the center.
The things you say today can cause sorrow tomorrow.
Close your mouth and do not talk of things you know nothing about.
Go to sleep, it is late.
Many people are reading the things you are writing.
They arise/arrive (?) at the door of your house tomorrow, not spanta

simian & shango knew each other & did not like each other at all.
much sniping & trading of insults, a very female way of doing things.
I always had the impression that simian was snippy, impatient & short-tempered.
the way they talked to each other truly does sound like a cat fight

(w/ apologies to my gender for the stereotype)

headed out for awhile, laters,
finn


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on February 26, 2008, 07:47:37 PM
OMG your alive my friend, and look who who else found his was out of he snow the other half ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 26, 2008, 08:14:50 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating

Shango has not danced with the lions, nor Arawaks,and does not keep their company


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on February 26, 2008, 08:17:21 PM
T. J. Ward stated that Freddy lives behind Joran.
http://www.immob.biz/afdrukken.php?id=927〈=NL

http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm
The picture of Freddy's house, the address for the pic is 39F
but that is his mom's address on the chamber list for 2004.
Her address on the list as of 05/06/05 is Montanja 62.


19 Montanja Joran van der Sloot
232 Montanja Jaime Carrasquilla
7A Catiri Freddy Zedan Arambatziz




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on February 26, 2008, 10:30:39 PM
Simian,

The key has closed. The sand has waft.
Who does the fourth see on a bow?

Did not the crimson monkey poison the cowboys?

It is not in the air but in the brew.

Mary was lost by the crimson monkey.

IF ONLY THE NEIGHBOR'S MONKEY COULD TALK - HE'D TELL THE TALE

* Joran & father seated at the blackjack table.

* Joran has a VIP PASS to Carlos n' Charlie's

* Alberto Levy is the General Manager of Carlos & Charlie's. Is he related to the Rafael Levy of Miami, Florida, who has reportedly been deeply involved in the worldwide online porn business, including child porn and "snuff" films?

* Freddy came over (he takes pictures for the PIMPS)
(http://photos21.flickr.com/37420561_75c180d68b_m.jpg)

Remember there is a video of a 14 yr. old with Freddy and the Kalpoe Brothers (and probably Joran)
and that is why they were arrested - kidnapping, rape charges. Gerald mentioned it too.
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=153787&bypass=153787#153787
Geraldo on Heartland

If JVDS & Kalpoe brothers are arrested and convicted of raping the 14 yr old, they will be in jail for a very long time. The investigators on the NH case will have plenty of time to find out what if anything they did to NH

Reporter: Do you expect Joran to be charged in this?

Geraldo: If you ask me to be a betting man, I bet eventually this will touch Joran in a big way. As I said at the top of the show, we have always heard Joran was involved in this porno tape in a very intimate way."
posted on 08/27/2005



* Joran downloaded 2 porn films





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 26, 2008, 11:08:29 PM

{::Insert Big SNIP here::}


I could not have made a better first post meself.

Unless I could do it in one sentence.

Fin

P.S. Strike the he/she part of your post and I am in total agreement. You really fumbled that part. Tsk, tsk.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 26, 2008, 11:39:58 PM
I always found the week of the TES pond/quarry search
to be a pivotal part of the coverup,
especially in the way that week relates to simian/shango

ie: simian was either doublecrossed that week or out-ed as an ALE leak

plus: when did shango start/stop posting?
when did sim stop posting?

this is something I worked on long ago/far away in another place.
please feel free to correct or add to my interpretation

the simian/shango postings lose much of t

heir value
when they stand alone ...
but when you read them interwoven w/ the ongoing events
their meaning is much more clear

some of what simian said was obviously misleading,
both in terms of logic & what we now know ...
& that may have been of his/her own free will

"Who said they all had sex with her? Nobody did as far as I know"
sounded iffy but perhaps believable on June 22, 2005
 
sex is the motive in prolly 85% of missing/murdered females cases.
perhaps the plan was that we will not play up the sex angle here,
no telling ::ahem:: where it may :::cough::: lead

the back beat is the alibi, the alibi, break the alibi:
Lorenzo's alibi? ... provided by Max Arendsz?
Max, friend of Peeps ... who told us that neither he nor Max know Joran or Lorenzo
("we don't want to know him, we mind our own business" =
something similar to omerta/sicilian code of silence).

the not knowing Joran part is interesting in light of Peeps' statement:
"this Joran is f**king sly & has a rarely seen strong character".
interesting observation re someone he claims to know nothing about.
Peeps also mentions his own talks to the detectives from time to time.
small circle of people here, interesting people.
little teeny tiny small world

perhps simian's ALE source did not have the true inside info.
the source knew some of the truth,
but those higher up ... covered up.
did the source did not know about the cover up?
simian was led to believe that he/she was an "insider"
& that was true to a degree

simian's postings served a purpose
or they would have been stopped or discredited

then again, simian WAS discredited as soon as shango came on board:
"Who else plays in the orchestra ... a Babylonian?"

a couple ways the doublecross could have unfolded:

#1 the original plan was to have the body recovered
in the waters of the quarry
but for whatever reasons that changed:
too much violence done to the body
or just plain wanting to stonewall,
insisting it can & will blow over eventually w/o the body

or

#2 recovering the body in the quarry was never really the plan.
a good way to find the leak on your team is to plant false info
& then see who runs w/ it

Sat June 25:

7:59 pm simian says:
The fires burned high and bright. Even Saint John denied he knew.
The smoke will clear soon. The elder can’t deny. The son can’t talk.
names morph across cultures/languages.
Jan van der Straaten: Jan=Johannes=John

keeping in mind that when the codetalkers say something
is as important as what they say,
shango's first post comes the day before the quarry search,
the day of the double cross

Sun June 26, Paulus is released & goes home.
Steve Croes' release is ordered
but he doesn't walk out until the next morning

Sun June 26:

2:58 pm simian says:
The music man’s song was not on the bill.
Steve Croes coming forward w/ alibi, a rogue move unanticipated by those in charge

3:09 pm shango says:
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….
"hello, I'm here & I know as much as you do, perhaps more.
please enlighten our readers"

3:18 pm simian says:
The alibi needs to be broken. The party-go-ers need to be pressured.
They have seen from the corners of their eyes. The house was dusted.

3:18 pm shango says:
Simian, why was the key from the Babylons Palace
not used to open the Sumerians Door ?

3:26 pm shango says:
Simian, his lordship did not bring the expected key,
the door never existed

3:30 pm shango says:
Simian, his lordship did not bring the key for the Arawaks.
 
3:33 pm shango says:
Simian, His Lordship did not bring the key found in the car,
it did not exist

3:40 pm shango says:
The key does not exist

 the refrain seems to be that there is a change in plans,
which simian refuses to believe.
something re the evidence/a witness that is not going as planned

4:04 pm simian says:
The wire has been shaken. The bird has left.

Paulus is released,
a fact not announced to the media for 2 hours/approx 6 pm

then simian is silent for many hours.
shango lays out that Joran will take the fall, in that:
even w/o a body as proof of murder,
he will forever be known as the one last seen w/ Natalee

5:04 pm shango says:
Prepare the fires. We need a sacrifice. A babylonian beast.
Young Lamb der Sloot

5:51 pm ConcernedUK says:
Does Shango liaise with Simian?

6:30 pm shango says:
Shango is not a Simian Doppleganger and has his own messengers
 
8:04 pm shango says:
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice
for the Arawaks and the cowboys.
All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat.
The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well.

finally, hours later, simian returns,
referring to Paulus & saying I told you so.
what has simian been told?
there is no loss of confidence,
simian is still sure of his/her source
because he/she still predicts that the body will be found.

simian & shango continue to disagree over tomorrow's outcome
following the quarry search.
they quickly respond to each other,
nearly ignoring the other posters in the forum.
any gaps between their back/forth are filled by shango's posts,
one after another, no room for all of them here

11:01 pm simian says:
If the door to eden is to be opened with that key,
it will be tomorrow or forever remained closed

11:05 pm shango says:
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time

11:09 pm simian says:
The whisperer is on the line. The Babylonians know what happened,
but their hands are tied. They do not own the hammer nor the block.
The owner of the hammer and the block will never carry the package
from the Hague. The trias works infallibly.
The party-go-ers need to be pinched, but no one wants to be the cafone.
Including the boy. Too much is at stake and he is no Ajax.
He is biting his tongue so he won’t be able to speak. So afraid he is.
 
IMO the whisperer is simian's source.
sim is saying his/her info is fresh & he/she still believes it

11:12 pm shango says:
Even Flying Birds Sing. If the key does not arrive tomorrow,
that door to Eden will remain closed

11:19 pm simian says:
The Simian asks that his words not be confused with anyone else’s.

11:23 pm simian says:
Who took the boy to the party? Who took him home?
Therein lies the third act. Look up the Simian’s posts from days ago.
 
11:37 pm simian says:
How can so many gamblers be wrong about the girl?
This is unbelievable.
The Babylonians need to pinch the ravers.
That will need to happen tomorrow.
The Simian is leaving.

12:39 am simian says:
Watch tomorrow, but do not speak, and it will all unfold before you

obviously still confident that his/her info is correct:
the body will be recovered tomorrow

12:54 am simian says:
I am leaving. I am done.

Mon June 27, the day of the quarry search.
there are late-morning reports that 2 search dogs have a "hit"

posters were discussing the DirtyHand clues & casino ownership
& somehow arabs were brought up.
ConcernedUK became confused & posted:

Very disjointed
Dirty Hand is casino link to crimes involving,
but bigger than, Natalee missing.
Arabs are related to this Island????
Is the kasino owned by Arabs?? Anyone??
Arabs do not equal terrorists. I understand that.
Is Dirty Hand an Arab?

Babalu answered: chief of polis.
Lucy's later post (below) does also & shango gives them both a
LOOK AT THIS, THREADSURFERS ... repeatedly

12:30 am Babalu says:
ConcernedUK, no, I guess he is head of some local official corps.
He is the guy that knows everything and that has been
in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself,
so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee
and he is the chief of Polis.

4:00 am shango says:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon
with his 12:30 posting

now the critical day, TES is beginning the quarry search.
5 hour break: no simian/no shango

Mon June 27:

9:13 am simian says:
Lack of evidence is not proof of innocence.
The cowboys are looking everywhere,
but the land and waters hold many secrets.
The Babylonians need to keep an eye on the cowboys.
The process muct be protected.
The ravers need to be pinched.

10:51 am simian says:
The Babylonians and the cowboys have swarmed the dirty waters.
The dead dogs are stinking.

10:59 am simian says:
The cowboys’ steel and wires are screaming.
The dirty water is large, deep and too wide,
but they are sure there is light on their screen.
The Babylonians will be proven right. All along they were right.
The story given by the gamblers might check out after all.

11:14 am simian says:
The road from the boy’s home leads to the dirty water.
Look for Noord and look for Moko. The cowboys feet are wet.
They are not quickdraws, they will creep by the inch.
It’s deep and wide. The Babylonians need this, before time runs out

11:33 am simian says:
Find Aruba. Look for Noord. Look for Montaña. Look for Moko.
Let your fingers connect the dots.
The cowboys feet are deeper in the dirty water.
The vultures are hanging around and are ready to pounce.
Hang on to your tubes. The Simian doesn’t want to be right.

11:37 am simian says:
Her decapitated body to be found. Her head to wash up on shore later.

11:39 am simian says:
Why does anyone want to be the Simian’s doppelganger.
The Simian finds that to be counter productive.

11:46 am simian says:
I have not left. I do not want to be copied however
and would like to stay and speak.

11:49 am simian says:
I leave now. The island is stirring.

11:58 am simian says:
They have found her. Watch your news stations for this one.
I said this was to happen. You can praise The Simian later.

12:08 pm simian says: 
THEY FOUND HER BODY!!

simian then makes a few posts in spanish, translation of one is:

12:11 pm
he said to keep watching the news,
and that he apologizes for the confusion,
but he is tired of people trying to impersonate him

shango has been silent all morning
until simian announces the body is found, then:

12:12 pm shango says:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon
with his 12:30 AM posting.
If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found
 
12:26 pm shango says:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon
with his 12:30 AM posting.
Simian your Doppleganger is with us

12:28 pm shango says:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon
with his 12:30 AM posting

 shango knows the body will not be found, while simian is still unaware.
shango begins to repeatedly point the readers toward Babalu's post
re polis involvment, since they are definitely involved if DirtyHand is polis.
we sit in front of the tv for hours, waiting to hear results of the search,
nothing comes ... & simian/shango are silent for 8 hours until:

9:41 pm shango says:
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA

9:44 pm shango says:
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:30 A.M. Post.
DirtyHand is alive

9:46 pm
shango: Shango said the key to the Hague did not exist
that door to eden remains closed
until the house with the path
But not of gold
is entered
 
9:48 pm shango says:
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

10:30 pm drax says:
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles =
they weren’t on the beach?

10:32 pm shango says:
THE DRAX SCORES
 
shango wasn't into idle chat & if he/she referred to a post
then that meant it was significant in some way.
there was much discussion of Natalee being taken to a rave,
XTC being the drug of choice,
Joran either leaving her there or being made to leave her there, then:  

10:45 pm shango says:
Windows looking onto Babylon are being opened by the ThreadSurfers

10:56 pm Lucy says:
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.

10:57 pm drax says:
DirtyHand has walked through the maze:…is DirtyHand Poppa VDS?

11:01 pm shango says:
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer

11:04 pm shango says:
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post

11:13 pm shango says:
Lucy spoke at 10:56

11:48 pm shango says:
The Simian was incorrect about the package from the Hague.
I told the Simian, but the Simian would not listen.
The simian is not a simian, but an austrolopithecus
 
11:52 pm shango says:
Threadsurfers on other beaches are oblivious to the Maze and the lions.
Without exposure, the arawaks will deceive the cowboys,
they will leave without loot

since shango posted in "our" forum,
other beaches are the other forums besides SM.
he was saying that we were the ones who were working his clues
& getting close to solving the puzzle

11:59 pm shango says:
Only those who cRave music go into the Maze

only those who take XTC go to the rave parties.
we haven't heard from simian for 12 hours.
no body recovered & no posts from simian

Tues June 28, the day following the quarry search:
 
10:17 am simian says:
hello news from the seas will rise today
 
has simian now been told that the body is in the ocean?
is that true or is more misinformation being fed to him/her?
a meek thing to say after the over-the-top reporting the previous day,
that the body had been found.
no acknowledgment is made of the error

Wed June 28:

12:09 am subdude says:
Raves as in XTC parties.

12:11 am shango says:
All the Arawaks know the Maze which plays the poison songs

12:14 am shango says:
How those innocent young flies enter the trap with honey laden notes

12:14 am (aruban poster) Yliana:
And of course you have what we call the mobile pharmacies (aka drug dealers)

12:18 am Big Pappy says:
Yliana, Can you name some places immediately associated with music
and young people on the island other than the bars?

12:22 am Yliana says:
pappy - we don’t have many places like that -
kids usually hang out on the streets or in clubs
because there are no other places to hang out.
Oh, I forgot a big one - Moomba beach - (near Holliday Inn) -
oooh a big one!

12:23 am shango says:
Follow the notes
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation
meet, under cover of delusion.
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.
Tell the cowboys!

12:23 am subdude says:
Yliana: Why a big one?

12:26 am Yliana says:
Subdude - Moomba beach is near the beach under the dark skies
and it’s known that bartenders serve more than drinks.
Especially when it’s full moon party night
 
12:28 am shango says:
Not all lions leave their den
a house party

12:30 am Yliana says:
Most of the cafes are Dutch owned.
The Paddock and the Black Hog Saloon are two wild places
where the Dutch frequent - not much of a young crowd though.
Clubs in hotels come to mind too

12:34 am Yliana says:
There are many ‘country’ houses where parties are held.
And these houses are not really mazes
but have different rooms where things can happen
 
12:34 am subdude says:
Babylonians are Dutch because Dutch legal system in Aruba, I believe.
Arawaks are Arubans.
Children of Babylonians could be Dutch kids
meeting with Arubans “under cover of delusion” —
thinking they are not noticed. I am struggling — just spit balling.

12:35 am Yliana says:
But I seriously doubt there would have been a party on a school night
in a country house. It was after all Tuesday!

 she's half-right.
it was a school night but it was not a tuesday

12:37 am shango says:
Yliana and Subdude have both opened windows
which look into the heart of babylon
do not stray from your paths
you hold the key in hand

12:39 am shango says:
The threadsurfers are opening the door to babylon
be careful of the lions
DirtyHand does not have them tamed
but he can enter the den
tell the cowboys

1:05 am subdude says:
Yliana, Shango mentioned we had opened windows
to the heart of Babylon just after our exchange regarding countryhouses.
Dutch kids and Arubans meeting out in the country thinking no one noticed.
Country house of the dealers which the police chief has been in.

Shango?

1:11 am shango says:
See Subdude / Iliana 12:34

1:19 am jetline says:
Shango, Do you know all of this because you were at the rave
and witnessed what happened to Natalee
or did someone else at the rave witness what happened and confide in you?
Either way you need to report this to the appropriate authorities.
If your story happens to be true and you knew it all along,
you could be facing serious criminal charges.
Otherwise, I think it is safe to assume that you are playing
some kind of sick game and leading all readers on a wild goose chase.
If the latter is true, I think your IP should be blocked.

1:32 am shango says:
For the doubters: You do not need to see a grain of sand in your eye
to know it is there

1:43 am simian says: 
The Simian has a handicap of 12.

simian was correct re 12 previous facts/statements?

1:52 am simian says:
The Simian says that The Simian only reports developments ahead of time.
The Simian thinks was is going on is shameless. Playing with feelings.
The Simian’s umbilical is buried close to the heart of the island.
NOBODY EVER try to put us down. The Simian hates what he has been reading.
All things must pass.

1:55 am shango says:
Find the music. Only David left the den alive

2:01 am simian says:
The Simian is getting out. Knows Shango, knows Shock me, knows Checkme.
Do not underestimate the power of the ping.
Shango is a dumb copycat. Maybe the Simian should place a call on you.
Get you 8 days with a hole to take a dump in.
Complementary peanut butter on stale bread for you, you fool.
The Simian is angry. Over and out.

2:09 am simian says:
The Simian is disapointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom,
but like to say the he only reports ahead of time.
The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources.
Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.
Seeing how this has been used to foul,
the Simian will again say that he will retire.

you can report ahead of time
only if you know what is planned to happen.
"seeing how this has been used to foul" refers to being misled/lied to,
being used to spread false information re the body being recovered

2:13 am Robalo33 says:
someone wrote earlier the simeon was an austrolopithecus,
which is an early man, not a monkey.
But simian, more of the stuff this shango says seems more real
than your predictions.
Your predictions about the hague two days ago were wrong.
u were also wrong about the searchers finding natalee

2:15 am Robalo33 says:
also that simeon never typed anything when he was upset.
i believe that is a simeon poser
 
2:18am simian says:
F**k the poetry. The Simian is a frenchman. Blue blood if you should know.

2:21am simian says:
The Simian doesn’t make predictions.
Only gives the group information ahead of time.
Predictions are for fools. This is the Simian.
No me hagan mofa.
Estoy molesto por las bobedades de Shango y Shock y Checkme.
Se creen, pero no son.
 
translation: I will not be mocked.
I am bothered by the bobedades (?) of Shango and Shock and Checkme. 
They are believed, but should not be.

2:21am Robalo33 says:
J’aime mieux passer les temps avec un femme comme vous Simian
 
 translation: I would rather spend time with a woman like you Simian.

2:23am Robalo33 says:
Simian tu no hablo nada de veridad todavia,
‘ta siempre la misma vaina con usted cabron?
 
Simian you still do not speak anything true,
is it always the same with you, b*tch?

2:24am shango says:
This Simian is not the Simian. It is a Doppleganger.

2:27 am shango says:
Crypticism leads to tributaries of thought
which would not usually leave the MainStream

2:28am simian says:
Cabron seras tu, pendejo. Yo trato de pasar la informacion antes de tiempo,
pero Uds. no entienden y creen que todo se soluciona por ser gringo.
No hago predicciones y tampoco nunca dije que sabía que paso esa noche.
Je ne compris pas quesque tu dire. Que je suis une femme?
La vie n’est pas comment tu pense.
 
translation: You're the b*tch, a**hole. 
I try to pass the information ahead of time, but you do not understand
and believe that everything is solved, being a foreigner. 
I do not make predictions and I never knew what happened that night.
I don't understand what you're saying. You think I'm a woman?
Life is not what you think it is.

2:32am simian says:
Shango, you have been pinged. No pone bo mes na liña.
E cosnan cu bo a papia awe por haci’bo dolor mañan.
Cera bo boca y no papia di loke bo no sa. Bai drumi, paso ta laat.
Hopi hende ta lesa loke bo ta skibi.
Nan lanta na porta di bo cas mañan, no spanta.

translation: Shango, get real, do not place yourself at the center.
The things you say today can cause sorrow tomorrow.
Close your mouth and do not talk of things you know nothing about.
Go to sleep, it is late.
Many people are reading the things you are writing.
They arise/arrive (?) at the door of your house tomorrow, not spanta

simian & shango knew each other & did not like each other at all.
much sniping & trading of insults, a very female way of doing things.
I always had the impression that simian was snippy, impatient & short-tempered.
the way they talked to each other truly does sound like a cat fight

(w/ apologies to my gender for the stereotype)

headed out for awhile, laters,
finn



I have said this for over 2 years now...you have to read them in context.  That is the only way to get a feel for what and to whom they are addressing in their posts.

BTW Simian was the ALE contact and he/she was outed as a snitch.  Why do you think he/she is not still posting. Too risky still works in the same place and knows the same people. Multiple personalities as I often say.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on February 27, 2008, 12:11:01 AM

{::Insert Big SNIP here::}


I could not have made a better first post meself.

Unless I could do it in one sentence.

Fin

P.S. Strike the he/she part of your post and I am in total agreement. You really fumbled that part. Tsk, tsk.

Fin:

thank you, sir

finn

PS: tsk tsk?

the "she" thing tends to rub people the wrong way ...
and I always/always try to rub people the right way

no double meaning intended  :wink:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on February 27, 2008, 12:24:17 AM
I have said this for over 2 years now...you have to read them in context.  That is the only way to get a feel for what and to whom they are addressing in their posts.

BTW Simian was the ALE contact and he/she was outed as a snitch.  Why do you think he/she is not still posting. Too risky still works in the same place and knows the same people. Multiple personalities as I often say.

 :2waver:

yah, the context is everything

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts re the out-ing ...
how/when it occurred/etc

finn





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 27, 2008, 12:59:16 AM
I have said this for over 2 years now...you have to read them in context.  That is the only way to get a feel for what and to whom they are addressing in their posts.

BTW Simian was the ALE contact and he/she was outed as a snitch.  Why do you think he/she is not still posting. Too risky still works in the same place and knows the same people. Multiple personalities as I often say.

 :2waver:

yah, the context is everything

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts re the out-ing ...
how/when it occurred/etc

finn





It happened right before Simian began to post at RWV as Merian Ernst.  Simian and Merian are one and the same.  Same style.  Stuck with the things they knew...not much speculation on either part. It took Shango a while but he finally had someone tell him about Simian and that was the first blood draw between them.  Shango only knew Natalee was not in the ocean.  Shango, to this day, does not know where the body is. Shango was not on Aruba so had to rely on his messengers...he wasn't feeding them...they were feeding him.  Shango had those same multiple personalities.  Shango was not on the inside of any of the ALE investigations and did not have anyone to rely on but his messengers.  That is why he knew nothing about the details of the investigation...only about things that may have occurred.  Shango was speculating much more than Simian. Shango's messengers were just that...internet messengers.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 27, 2008, 03:08:31 AM

{::Insert Big SNIP here::}


I could not have made a better first post meself.

Unless I could do it in one sentence.

Fin

P.S. Strike the he/she part of your post and I am in total agreement. You really fumbled that part. Tsk, tsk.

Fin:

thank you, sir

finn

PS: tsk tsk?

the "she" thing tends to rub people the wrong way ...
and I always/always try to rub people the right way

no double meaning intended  :wink:

Finn,

Bingo on the leako. Disinfo to catch a squeako.

Tsk tsk - me attempt at hugh more.

Why let where the facts lead one be concerned on how others are rubbed?

If I thought sim was a wombat, I would say so.

Is that not why we are all here? To find answers? It is important to who these people were. Were they helping? Were they giving false clues? Were they giving clues that they thought were real? It matters.

"Thank you sir"?

How do you know I am not a female?

YW, ma'am(?),

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on February 27, 2008, 03:24:28 AM
Finn,

Bingo on the leako. Disinfo to catch a squeako.
on this we agree

Tsk tsk - me attempt at hugh more.
I enjoy the hugh more

Why let where the facts lead one be concerned on how others are rubbed?
true

If I thought sim was a wombat, I would say so.
yes, you would

Is that not why we are all here? To find answers? It is important to who these people were. Were they helping? Were they giving false clues? Were they giving clues that they thought were real? It matters.
since gender seems to matter tonight/this morning
and since for various reasons I believe sim to be female ...
have you ever considered that shango is female as well?

"Thank you sir"?

How do you know I am not a female?
'twas told to me by a small yet informative penguin

YW, ma'am(?),

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 27, 2008, 04:44:21 AM
Finn,

Bingo on the leako. Disinfo to catch a squeako.
on this we agree
then what r u arguing for? lol

Tsk tsk - me attempt at hugh more.
I enjoy the hugh more
Dew u enjoy the hugh less

Why let where the facts lead one be concerned on how others are rubbed?
true
blue

If I thought sim was a wombat, I would say so.
yes, you would
eye nough eye wood

Is that not why we are all here? To find answers? It is important to who these people were. Were they helping? Were they giving false clues? Were they giving clues that they thought were real? It matters.
since gender seems to matter tonight/this morning
and since for various reasons I believe sim to be female ...
have you ever considered that shango is female as well?
I never wented 2 Shango skule. Shango culd b a wombat. Mayb ewe shuld po st razons.

"Thank you sir"?

How do you know I am not a female?
'twas told to me by a small yet informative penguin
I hate leako pengos.

orry vwah,
Fin


YW, ma'am(?),

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: martini on February 27, 2008, 09:27:52 AM
(http://cdbaby.name/s/h/shangoband.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 27, 2008, 10:01:17 AM
I have said this for over 2 years now...you have to read them in context.  That is the only way to get a feel for what and to whom they are addressing in their posts.

BTW Simian was the ALE contact and he/she was outed as a snitch.  Why do you think he/she is not still posting. Too risky still works in the same place and knows the same people. Multiple personalities as I often say.

 :2waver:

yah, the context is everything

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts re the out-ing ...
how/when it occurred/etc

finn





It happened right before Simian began to post at RWV as Merian Ernst.  Simian and Merian are one and the same.  Same style.  Stuck with the things they knew...not much speculation on either part. It took Shango a while but he finally had someone tell him about Simian and that was the first blood draw between them.  Shango only knew Natalee was not in the ocean.  Shango, to this day, does not know where the body is. Shango was not on Aruba so had to rely on his messengers...he wasn't feeding them...they were feeding him.  Shango had those same multiple personalities.  Shango was not on the inside of any of the ALE investigations and did not have anyone to rely on but his messengers.  That is why he knew nothing about the details of the investigation...only about things that may have occurred.  Shango was speculating much more than Simian. Shango's messengers were just that...internet messengers.

LaLa:

I do believe shango know where the body is

who wrote then the key XTC DNA then



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 27, 2008, 11:18:04 AM
9:41 pm shango says:
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 27, 2008, 11:25:44 AM
I have said this for over 2 years now...you have to read them in context.  That is the only way to get a feel for what and to whom they are addressing in their posts.

BTW Simian was the ALE contact and he/she was outed as a snitch.  Why do you think he/she is not still posting. Too risky still works in the same place and knows the same people. Multiple personalities as I often say.

 :2waver:

yah, the context is everything

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts re the out-ing ...
how/when it occurred/etc

finn





It happened right before Simian began to post at RWV as Merian Ernst.  Simian and Merian are one and the same.  Same style.  Stuck with the things they knew...not much speculation on either part. It took Shango a while but he finally had someone tell him about Simian and that was the first blood draw between them.  Shango only knew Natalee was not in the ocean.  Shango, to this day, does not know where the body is. Shango was not on Aruba so had to rely on his messengers...he wasn't feeding them...they were feeding him.  Shango had those same multiple personalities.  Shango was not on the inside of any of the ALE investigations and did not have anyone to rely on but his messengers.  That is why he knew nothing about the details of the investigation...only about things that may have occurred.  Shango was speculating much more than Simian. Shango's messengers were just that...internet messengers.

LaLa:

I do believe shango know where the body is

who wrote then the key XTC DNA then



We will just have to agree to disagree on that part.  I have my reasons, but I do hope I am wrong.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 27, 2008, 11:28:37 AM
(http://cdbaby.name/s/h/shangoband.jpg)

Shango is a band...a religion...a comic book.  Many things, none of which fit into a nice neat package.

I thought you were tired of us weirdos in here? LOL 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Chata on February 27, 2008, 12:09:33 PM
Finngirl said:
"
simian & shango knew each other & did not like each other at all.
much sniping & trading of insults, a very female way of doing things.
I always had the impression that simian was snippy, impatient & short-tempered.
the way they talked to each other truly does sound like a cat fight

(w/ apologies to my gender for the stereotype) "

Thanks for the post ... a good one.

Sometimes stereotyping just fits ... but what if Shango (or one of his personalities) was just a bitchy she-male??? 

Whatever/whoever both of them were/are, I think they were conveying information and maybe some insight into the workings of Aruba. MHO.

Chata


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 27, 2008, 04:36:40 PM
Finngirl said:
"
simian & shango knew each other & did not like each other at all.
much sniping & trading of insults, a very female way of doing things.
I always had the impression that simian was snippy, impatient & short-tempered.
the way they talked to each other truly does sound like a cat fight

(w/ apologies to my gender for the stereotype) "

Thanks for the post ... a good one.

Sometimes stereotyping just fits ... but what if Shango (or one of his personalities) was just a bitchy she-male??? 

Whatever/whoever both of them were/are, I think they were conveying information and maybe some insight into the workings of Aruba. MHO.

Chata



I am not stereotyping. I just let the chips fall where they may.

The textual clues lead me to be certain that sim was female.

sim threatened Shango with, "get you eight days in the hole with stale bread for you, you fool"(WTTE). ALE connection. A male would not use these methods of insults or threats.

I first thought sim could be female or a gay person. But, the evidence points to female.

They were conveying info. That is why it is important to who they were. To figure out their motives. Help? Mislead?

I do not have a clear gender for Shango. I am open to ideas. I always thought that the obvious pick was Eduardo Matthew. But I could not find the early clues to the ID for multiple reasons.

I do believe Shango spoke with authority from a point of trying to help by giving some deep background to the island life.

Why Shango chose to do it the way done - could be many reasons. Think about it, their life could be in danger by trying to help if what is really happening down there - drugs, cartel etc..

Me thinks Shango knew some things.

Only a few know everything.

Thanks Shango.

I must go feed the credit cards.

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 27, 2008, 05:40:12 PM
9:41 pm shango says:
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA


Maybe I should explain my comment that Shango did not know where Natalee was.  Shango clearly says that she is not in the ocean...never heard the buoy toll...some think it means she was dead when she was placed in the ocean...but to me it says Shango is claiming she is not in the ocean.  I think....and this is a big IF...Shango knew anything...he knew she was not in the ocean.  A location in his riddles....such as a specific location...not a general area....tells me he did not know where she was placed for her final resting place.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 27, 2008, 05:41:19 PM
Finngirl said:
"
simian & shango knew each other & did not like each other at all.
much sniping & trading of insults, a very female way of doing things.
I always had the impression that simian was snippy, impatient & short-tempered.
the way they talked to each other truly does sound like a cat fight

(w/ apologies to my gender for the stereotype) "

Thanks for the post ... a good one.

Sometimes stereotyping just fits ... but what if Shango (or one of his personalities) was just a bitchy she-male??? 

Whatever/whoever both of them were/are, I think they were conveying information and maybe some insight into the workings of Aruba. MHO.

Chata



I am not stereotyping. I just let the chips fall where they may.

The textual clues lead me to be certain that sim was female.

sim threatened Shango with, "get you eight days in the hole with stale bread for you, you fool"(WTTE). ALE connection. A male would not use these methods of insults or threats.

I first thought sim could be female or a gay person. But, the evidence points to female.

They were conveying info. That is why it is important to who they were. To figure out their motives. Help? Mislead?

I do not have a clear gender for Shango. I am open to ideas. I always thought that the obvious pick was Eduardo Matthew. But I could not find the early clues to the ID for multiple reasons.

I do believe Shango spoke with authority from a point of trying to help by giving some deep background to the island life.

Why Shango chose to do it the way done - could be many reasons. Think about it, their life could be in danger by trying to help if what is really happening down there - drugs, cartel etc..

Me thinks Shango knew some things.

Only a few know everything.

Thanks Shango.

I must go feed the credit cards.

Fin

Does Matthew live in Florida?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 27, 2008, 05:59:51 PM
I do believe Shango Knows what has happend and put it all for someone to unravel it and by this way not involved his own name but left a map of clues that involve two cases that was going on in Aruba in 2005.

Case 1 - was the Natalee Holloway
Case 2 - The Ritz Carlton Between the Brazillian investor and the USA but with the palyers are of the corruption is a group of Dutch.

The same players play in both cases at the higher up in the corruption chain.

In case-1 and case -2 both have similair player but with diffrent rol (act)

when you separate what is case 1 and what is case 2, you can see better.

e.g. When the word Lions is used, it means two type of Lions.

Case -2 :The Ritz Carlton Lion ---Look at their logo to find out it is a lion

Case -1 :The Dutch Lion ----Look at their Coat of arms. it is a Lion

Shango took the time put two story into some post to confuse the readers or to protect his neck.

In both case there is a answer to the Riddle.

In the case of Simian, Simian knows where the oroginal plans was to dump the bosy and the area was search but noting was found... The reason is the cops must have discover that Simian was leaking the info and so there was a change in the plans. The original plan that was in Noord where the Texas Group was Searching.

Then from there, someone must have come up with a fish story about the Ocean to obscure the investigation.

When the Perps plans has change he must have gotten sensitive information, by this, Shange made shure that the world who read the Monkeys will read his riddle and with hope for some one to decode it. By decoding the clues that will lead to a new chapter in Natalee Case and the Body.

Where is Shango now? God nows. I believe he post his riddle when he went on vacation from his hotel or apartment.

The Caps



 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 27, 2008, 06:16:37 PM
Finngirl said:
"
simian & shango knew each other & did not like each other at all.
much sniping & trading of insults, a very female way of doing things.
I always had the impression that simian was snippy, impatient & short-tempered.
the way they talked to each other truly does sound like a cat fight

(w/ apologies to my gender for the stereotype) "

Thanks for the post ... a good one.

Sometimes stereotyping just fits ... but what if Shango (or one of his personalities) was just a bitchy she-male??? 

Whatever/whoever both of them were/are, I think they were conveying information and maybe some insight into the workings of Aruba. MHO.

Chata



I am not stereotyping. I just let the chips fall where they may.

The textual clues lead me to be certain that sim was female.

sim threatened Shango with, "get you eight days in the hole with stale bread for you, you fool"(WTTE). ALE connection. A male would not use these methods of insults or threats.

I first thought sim could be female or a gay person. But, the evidence points to female.

They were conveying info. That is why it is important to who they were. To figure out their motives. Help? Mislead?

I do not have a clear gender for Shango. I am open to ideas. I always thought that the obvious pick was Eduardo Matthew. But I could not find the early clues to the ID for multiple reasons.

I do believe Shango spoke with authority from a point of trying to help by giving some deep background to the island life.

Why Shango chose to do it the way done - could be many reasons. Think about it, their life could be in danger by trying to help if what is really happening down there - drugs, cartel etc..

Me thinks Shango knew some things.

Only a few know everything.

Thanks Shango.

I must go feed the credit cards.

Fin

Does Matthew live in Florida?


I know now who Shango is and it is Matthew.





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 27, 2008, 06:40:54 PM
Caps  eduardo mathew the guy that attacked ben vocking?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on February 27, 2008, 06:58:57 PM
Did Shango stop posting at the same time as van der Straaten left Aruba?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 27, 2008, 07:00:45 PM
Caps  eduardo mathew the guy that attacked ben vocking?



Yes, it is him...If he has a personal war agains the corruption of Aruba. And how he was incaserated for taken justice in his own hand agains his ex. wife...But the ex wife was also playing and in his rage but in KIA they abuse of all his rights and they ried to break him apart. He was a very fit guy and owner of the Millenium Security in Aruba. He was body guard for some wealthy old ladies that travel frequenlty to Aruba and he was their protector.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on February 27, 2008, 07:02:32 PM
Did Shango stop posting at the same time as van der Straaten left Aruba?
Jan VDS left a few months after Natalee dissapeared and I believe Shango stopped posting the end of June 2005.

Matthews apparently was in Rhode Island in 2005.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 27, 2008, 07:07:50 PM
when was the re-election of Oduber?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 27, 2008, 07:08:02 PM
Did Shango stop posting at the same time as van der Straaten left Aruba?
Jan VDS left a few months after Natalee dissapeared and I believe Shango stopped posting the end of June 2005.

Matthews apparently was in Rhode Island in 2005.


Yes there was the weathy old ladies from Rhode Island. They used to say a lot in the Radisson when visiting Aruba. It all make sense now.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 27, 2008, 07:12:48 PM
Yes,
They were the weathy old ladies from Rhode Island. They used to stay a lot in the Radisson when visiting Aruba.

It all make sense now.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 27, 2008, 07:20:18 PM
Yes,
They were the weathy old ladies from Rhode Island. They used to stay a lot in the Radisson when visiting Aruba.

It all make sense now.

caps maybe this helps

Eduardo Alexander Antonio Mathew (born 1973) is a Netherlands national who now lives in Providence, Rhode Island. He is a kickboxing instructor by profession. In 2004 and 2005, Mathew campaigned against alleged racism against black inmates in the Caribbean island of Aruba (off the coast of Venezuela), which is part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands.

http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/eduardo-mathew/

excuse me for sounding stupid but i m lost now what has rhode island to do with it all. Plz explain?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on February 27, 2008, 07:23:05 PM
when was the re-election of Oduber?
I believe it was the end of Sept 2005


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on February 27, 2008, 07:24:58 PM
when was the re-election of Oduber?

September, 2005, iirc.  I'd have to search for the exact date of the election, but I believe it was early in the month.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on February 27, 2008, 07:31:17 PM
when was the re-election of Oduber?

September, 2005, iirc.  I'd have to search for the exact date of the election, but I believe it was early in the month.

******* is right...found an article dated 9/25/05:

http://www.nationnews.com/326426343404700.php


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 27, 2008, 07:32:21 PM
The rule of the Arawak King is the Final word.

DirtyHand has fouled the air for all nearby, but the Arawak Nation will claim Babylonian Authority prevents them from hunting Lions, and DirtyHand.

But the Arawak king controls destiny of all. The Arawak king has DirtyHands and DirtyFeet. If he is to reign anew, he cannot be soiled more.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 27, 2008, 07:37:09 PM
had thought that was the dynamic in play when Shango stopped posting-probably not, given the timing

IMO-whatever the circumstance surrounding this comment, no further posting would be useful:

"If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found."


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 27, 2008, 07:40:14 PM
But the contention in our estimation might be over the political career of Mr. Oduber and how he`s been portrayed in the newspaper. You know, separate from the Natalee Holloway case, he is running a political campaign. With the Natalee Holloway case, her disappearance happened on his watch.

You know, we didn`t even see him start to really pressure the government to let the FBI in on this case until a few weeks ago. And from what I understood and reading in the polls, that was good timing for Mr. Oduber.

GRACE: Yes. I saw that letter that he wrote, the prime minister, misspelling Natalee`s name two times in one letter. Has anybody heard of spell-check in Aruba? So that`s how you get re-elected there, you sue people that speak out against you for defamation?

FAULKNER: Well, you know, I think it`s just posturing.

GRACE: If that were true, both Bill Clinton and George Bush would have thrown me in jail a long time ago. Go ahead.

FAULKNER: It`s just posturing, I think, at this point. You know, we can`t possibly know every detail that`s at the heart of this. This would be a long-running relationship. Both these men have been public figures a long time.

GRACE: OK. Just give me the short end of the stick on this. When`s the re-election?

FAULKNER: I believe it`s September 23rd.

GRACE: OK. September 23rd.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on February 27, 2008, 07:40:56 PM
had thought that was the dynamic in play when Shango stopped posting-probably not, given the timing

IMO-whatever the circumstance surrounding this comment, no further posting would be useful:

"If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found."


Was that post the end of June? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 27, 2008, 07:44:30 PM
had thought that was the dynamic in play when Shango stopped posting-probably not, given the timing

IMO-whatever the circumstance surrounding this comment, no further posting would be useful:

"If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found."


Was that post the end of June? 

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on February 27, 2008, 07:50:36 PM
had thought that was the dynamic in play when Shango stopped posting-probably not, given the timing

IMO-whatever the circumstance surrounding this comment, no further posting would be useful:

"If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found."


Was that post the end of June? 

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found

Thanks, I just looked it up, myself (which I should have done before asking).  That was a Monday, and exactly a month following Natalee's disappearance.  Maybe it has no significance at all.....it was just an observation at this point.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on February 27, 2008, 07:58:46 PM
They started to drain the pond on 6/27...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/07/26/aruba.missing/index.html?iref=newssearch


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 27, 2008, 07:58:58 PM
need to know significance of JUN 28


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on February 27, 2008, 08:01:15 PM
They started to drain the pond on 6/27...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/07/26/aruba.missing/index.html?iref=newssearch
[/s]

Date was wrong.  My bad. ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on February 27, 2008, 08:07:21 PM
need to know significance of JUN 28

Well that day Lorenzo Van Rijn was questioned,Daury Rodriguez birthday and something else that I cant find at the moment.

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/LorenzoWitnessStatement_small.jpg)
This is from the Dr Phil documents...

Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 1
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness pointing out an area of interest
 
Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness statement about a gray Toyota


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 27, 2008, 08:08:12 PM
so they start to drain this pond 7/26, yet-Shango said that the loot will not be found after 6/27


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on February 27, 2008, 08:08:44 PM
had thought that was the dynamic in play when Shango stopped posting-probably not, given the timing

IMO-whatever the circumstance surrounding this comment, no further posting would be useful:

"If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found."


Was that post the end of June? 

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found

Thanks, I just looked it up, myself (which I should have done before asking).  That was a Monday, and exactly a month following Natalee's disappearance.  Maybe it has no significance at all.....it was just an observation at this point.

which brings us back to Mon/June 27,
the day of the much-anticipated TES quarry/pond search

AFAIK that was the only public activity that day ...
of course there may have been something percolating behind the scenes

shango stressed that June 27 was a now-or-never day for body recovery

a group of locals interrrupted TES' work:
jeering/throwing rocks into the water to disrupt the equipment/etc

leave it to aruba to allow the local riff raff
to impede an officially sanctioned body search

 :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 27, 2008, 08:10:55 PM
what day did Wyndham sell?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 27, 2008, 08:15:41 PM
what day did Wyndham sell?



scratch that-that was in '06


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on February 27, 2008, 08:21:22 PM
when was the re-election of Oduber?

Oduber was re-elected. 09-26-2005


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 27, 2008, 08:30:30 PM
so they start to drain this pond 7/26, yet-Shango said that the loot will not be found after 6/27


This is because they change the maze location


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Kermit on February 27, 2008, 08:33:32 PM
I do believe Shango Knows what has happend and put it all for someone to unravel it and by this way not involved his own name but left a map of clues that involve two cases that was going on in Aruba in 2005.

Case 1 - was the Natalee Holloway
Case 2 - The Ritz Carlton Between the Brazillian investor and the USA but with the palyers are of the corruption is a group of Dutch.

The same players play in both cases at the higher up in the corruption chain.

In case-1 and case -2 both have similair player but with diffrent rol (act)

when you separate what is case 1 and what is case 2, you can see better.

e.g. When the word Lions is used, it means two type of Lions.

Case -2 :The Ritz Carlton Lion ---Look at their logo to find out it is a lion

Case -1 :The Dutch Lion ----Look at their Coat of arms. it is a Lion

Shango took the time put two story into some post to confuse the readers or to protect his neck.

In both case there is a answer to the Riddle.

In the case of Simian, Simian knows where the oroginal plans was to dump the bosy and the area was search but noting was found... The reason is the cops must have discover that Simian was leaking the info and so there was a change in the plans. The original plan that was in Noord where the Texas Group was Searching.

Then from there, someone must have come up with a fish story about the Ocean to obscure the investigation.

When the Perps plans has change he must have gotten sensitive information, by this, Shange made shure that the world who read the Monkeys will read his riddle and with hope for some one to decode it. By decoding the clues that will lead to a new chapter in Natalee Case and the Body.

Where is Shango now? God nows. I believe he post his riddle when he went on vacation from his hotel or apartment.

The Caps



 

CMB logo is a Lion

Paulus made 2 trips to the CMB



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on February 27, 2008, 08:40:14 PM
so they start to drain this pond 7/26, yet-Shango said that the loot will not be found after 6/27


This is because they change the maze location

two different pond searches

June 27 TES search was at the small quarrry pond near the vdS home ...
pics were posted on pg 138

shango's first/earliest posts June 26/27
stressed the the now-or-never status re small quarry pond search

the large pond which was drained lies across from Marriott.
draining began July 26/was expected to take 24 hours,
never was fully/successfully drained


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 27, 2008, 08:43:13 PM
so they start to drain this pond 7/26, yet-Shango said that the loot will not be found after 6/27


This is because they change the maze location

two different pond searches

June 27 TES search was at the small quarrry pond near the vdS home ...
pics were posted on pg 138

shango's first/earliest posts June 26/27
stressed the the now-or-never status re small quarry pond search

the large pond which was drained lies across from Marriott.
draining began July 26/was expected to take 24 hours,
never was fully/successfully drained


It is that nobody did understand shango Location... to undertand it you must known him and his past.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 27, 2008, 08:45:05 PM
so they start to drain this pond 7/26, yet-Shango said that the loot will not be found after 6/27


This is because they change the maze location

two different pond searches

June 27 TES search was at the small quarrry pond near the vdS home ...
pics were posted on pg 138

shango's first/earliest posts June 26/27
stressed the the now-or-never status re small quarry pond search

the large pond which was drained lies across from Marriott.
draining began July 26/was expected to take 24 hours,
never was fully/successfully drained




and there is no loot......

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:25 pm
The Arawaks want the truth to come out
As long as DirtyHand is not found
Aruba is preserved and Babylon will pay the price
the gods know that the blame lies on babylon
the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 27, 2008, 08:57:29 PM
I wonder why they change location and go to a shallow water aea.

Shango (Mat) was pointing them all thaat time where to find a secret.

their is still change the secret is still there.? 2.5 years has been gone.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on February 27, 2008, 10:58:52 PM
I wonder why they change location and go to a shallow water aea.

Shango (Mat) was pointing them all thaat time where to find a secret.

their is still change the secret is still there.? 2.5 years has been gone.

but they went to the shallow water area first

looking at it in direct order:

something caused them to look at the shallow pond,
perhaps partly because it was so close to vdS home

shango didn't point in the direction of water near the vdS home ... simian did.
but this pointing from simian came during the first/June search,
it didn't come ahead of time, causing them to look there.
it was a comment on the current activity

11:14 am simian says:
The road from the boy’s home leads to the dirty water.
Look for Noord and look for Moko. The cowboys feet are wet.
They are not quickdraws, they will creep by the inch.
It’s deep and wide. The Babylonians need this, before time runs out

11:33 am simian says:
Find Aruba. Look for Noord. Look for Montaña. Look for Moko.
Let your fingers connect the dots.
The cowboys feet are deeper in the dirty water.
The vultures are hanging around and are ready to pounce.
Hang on to your tubes. The Simian doesn’t want to be right.

11:37 am simian says:
Her decapitated body to be found. Her head to wash up on shore later.

altho I'm not clear on how washing up on shore
relates to a quarry filled w/ water ... ?

the deep water search in the larger pond was a month later/July

I doubt that ALE or TES was listening to sim/shango back then, anyway

shango said Mary never heard the buoy toll ...
buoys being objects found in seas or lakes, more often than not.
so in relation to a buoy, shango did mention water
but more likely it was ocean water, given the context

some believe not hearing the buoy toll
meant she was unconscious when she was transported to sea ...
some believe it meant she was never taken to the ocean


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on February 27, 2008, 11:02:32 PM
should have included the date of the sim posts above:
Mon June 27

:2redface:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 27, 2008, 11:04:17 PM
I wonder why they change location and go to a shallow water aea.

Shango (Mat) was pointing them all thaat time where to find a secret.

their is still change the secret is still there.? 2.5 years has been gone.

but they went to the shallow water area first

looking at it in direct order:

something caused them to look at the shallow pond,
perhaps partly because it was so close to vdS home

shango didn't point in the direction of water near the vdS home ... simian did.
but this pointing from simian came during the first/June search,
it didn't come ahead of time, causing them to look there.
it was a comment on the current activity

11:14 am simian says:
The road from the boy’s home leads to the dirty water.
Look for Noord and look for Moko. The cowboys feet are wet.
They are not quickdraws, they will creep by the inch.
It’s deep and wide. The Babylonians need this, before time runs out

11:33 am simian says:
Find Aruba. Look for Noord. Look for Montaña. Look for Moko.
Let your fingers connect the dots.
The cowboys feet are deeper in the dirty water.
The vultures are hanging around and are ready to pounce.
Hang on to your tubes. The Simian doesn’t want to be right.

11:37 am simian says:
Her decapitated body to be found. Her head to wash up on shore later.

altho I'm not clear on how washing up on shore
relates to a quarry filled w/ water ... ?

the deep water search in the larger pond was a month later/July

I doubt that ALE or TES was listening to sim/shango back then, anyway

shango said Mary never heard the buoy toll ...
buoys being objects found in seas or lakes, more often than not.
so in relation to a buoy, shango did mention water
but more likely it was ocean water, given the context

some believe not hearing the buoy toll
meant she was unconscious when she was transported to sea ...
some believe it meant she was never taken to the ocean


This is known to be a fake Simian post from a location somewhere in Colorado. Shango says she is not in the ocean, is what I think he means there, but that's just my opinion. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on February 27, 2008, 11:49:56 PM
11:37 am simian says:
Her decapitated body to be found. Her head to wash up on shore later.

altho I'm not clear on how washing up on shore
relates to a quarry filled w/ water ... ?


shango said Mary never heard the buoy toll ...
buoys being objects found in seas or lakes, more often than not.
so in relation to a buoy, shango did mention water
but more likely it was ocean water, given the context

some believe not hearing the buoy toll
meant she was unconscious when she was transported to sea ...
some believe it meant she was never taken to the ocean

This is known to be a fake Simian post from a location somewhere in Colorado.  

ah so, that explains why the post doesn't fit the situation

good to know, thank you  :cool:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 28, 2008, 12:28:11 AM
9:41 pm shango says:
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA


Shango clearly says...


LM,

Surely you jest. lol.

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 28, 2008, 12:40:01 AM
9:41 pm shango says:
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA


Yes, here is where they should have search in 2005.

hope we are not late. lets wait and see what these comming day will bring.

Shango clearly says...


LM,

Surely you jest. lol.

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 28, 2008, 12:43:46 AM
9:41 pm shango says:
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA


Shango clearly says...


LM,

Surely you jest. lol.

Fin

Yes, here is where they should have search in 2005.

hope we are not late. Lets wait and see what these comming day will bring.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 28, 2008, 01:01:40 AM
9:41 pm shango says:
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA


Shango clearly says...


LM,

Surely you jest. lol.

Fin

Yes, here is where they should have search in 2005.

hope we are not late. Lets wait and see what these comming day will bring.



CLW,

Would that rhyme have to be changed now?

One straight path
to the house of Rave
while of gold bricks
the road is now paved
a white truck

answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA


Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 28, 2008, 01:06:36 AM
9:41 pm shango says:
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA


Shango clearly says...


LM,

Surely you jest. lol.

Fin

Yes, here is where they should have search in 2005.

hope we are not late. Lets wait and see what these comming day will bring.



CLW,

Would that rhyme have to be changed now?

One straight path
to the house of Rave
while of gold bricks
the road is now paved
a white truck

answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA


Fin

It is still the same.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 28, 2008, 01:09:00 AM
9:41 pm shango says:
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA


Shango clearly says...


LM,

Surely you jest. lol.

Fin

Yes, here is where they should have search in 2005.

hope we are not late. Lets wait and see what these comming day will bring.



CLW,

Would that rhyme have to be changed now?

One straight path
to the house of Rave
while of gold bricks
the road is now paved
a white truck

answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA


Fin

It is still the same.

The road has not change. It is still the same


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on February 28, 2008, 01:20:17 AM
Caps,
Are you pleased with the areas that are now being searched?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 28, 2008, 01:27:33 AM
9:41 pm shango says:
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA


Shango clearly says...


LM,

Surely you jest. lol.

Fin

Fin,

Why is your Monkey avatar Cigarett is not lit.

Should ask Klaasend: to ligh it up.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 28, 2008, 01:33:01 AM
Caps,
Are you pleased with the areas that are now being searched?

Yes,

At 9:00 will go over there to amke sure they do not mis a spot....The sneaker is there....where is the sneaker is the remains.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on February 28, 2008, 02:47:34 AM
Caps,
Are you pleased with the areas that are now being searched?

Yes,

At 9:00 will go over there to amke sure they do not mis a spot....The sneaker is there....where is the sneaker is the remains.

Thank you Caps!   ::MonkeyCool::

I will definately be lurking from work, please give us a sign of some kind if you can. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on February 28, 2008, 02:54:39 AM
9:41 pm shango says:
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA


Shango clearly says...


LM,

Surely you jest. lol.

Fin

Fin,

Why is your Monkey avatar Cigarett is not lit.

Should ask Klaasend: to ligh it up.

By the way Caps.... After looking at Fin's cigarette and comparing to yours.....just curious as to exactly what that is you're smoking, yours seems to be much thinner than Fins.....
 ::MonkeyEek::   ::MonkeyWink::  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 28, 2008, 04:53:12 AM
9:41 pm shango says:
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA


Shango clearly says...


LM,

Surely you jest. lol.

Fin

Fin,

Why is your Monkey avatar Cigarett is not lit.

Should ask Klaasend: to ligh it up.

Caps,

Ire.

If it was lighted, everyone would know what it is then.

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 28, 2008, 04:57:03 AM

By the way Caps.... After looking at Fin's cigarette and comparing to yours.....just curious as to exactly what that is you're smoking, yours seems to be much thinner than Fins.....
 ::MonkeyEek::   ::MonkeyWink::  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Tex,

Them's Marlboro 100's - John Wayne Killers.

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 28, 2008, 08:23:47 AM

By the way Caps.... After looking at Fin's cigarette and comparing to yours.....just curious as to exactly what that is you're smoking, yours seems to be much thinner than Fins.....
 ::MonkeyEek::   ::MonkeyWink::  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Tex,

Them's Marlboro 100's - John Wayne Killers.

Fin

No, My Brand is More....very slim....and it hits hard. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on February 28, 2008, 08:38:51 AM
11:37 am simian says:
Her decapitated body to be found. Her head to wash up on shore later.

altho I'm not clear on how washing up on shore
relates to a quarry filled w/ water ... ?


shango said Mary never heard the buoy toll ...
buoys being objects found in seas or lakes, more often than not.
so in relation to a buoy, shango did mention water
but more likely it was ocean water, given the context

some believe not hearing the buoy toll
meant she was unconscious when she was transported to sea ...
some believe it meant she was never taken to the ocean

This is known to be a fake Simian post from a location somewhere in Colorado.   

ah so, that explains why the post doesn't fit the situation

good to know, thank you  :cool:

  A bouy toll give a warning and she did not hear it because she trusted them or was messed up enough to get into the car with them.  There is a road that goes into a cave that is well hidden, large enough to drive cars into.  I believe it has an outlet that comes into the water.  I trust Shango, not Simian.     Jack blue


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on February 28, 2008, 08:51:29 AM
Must say that TigerGirl & Shango seem to be the
ones offering the goods, so far.
p.s. 'Seedy' was female.

OK-where did they get that information. Just cause someone posted it, doesn't always make it true-I can attest to that plenty.
Seedy never gave anything away to indicate his/her sex-I wonder how this could be found out.
Everyone assumed I was male until I corrected them. This is what I am talking about-a lot of the things you present here as fact are only assumptions that people have picked up from here and there on the internet. They have no back up and that doesn't make them fact.


Posted by: scubajap | Thursday, August 18, 2005 at 09:03 AM


Are you talking about Seedy Rum?  If so Seedy is a girl.  Know a little history there.  Seedy Rum is/was one of the most anti-American system people I ever talked to.  Seedy Rum was also one of the best researchers for trash on any political figure I ever came accross.  We were totally opposite in our beliefs.  I will say he, but......He hated those in power in this country, and who knows which other countries.  I used to try to tame Seedy down a bit, but he got so nasty and so bad I had to quit even talking to him.  He liked me for some reason and sent e-mails for a long time after, but his e-mails were like newspapers.  He was brilliant, but also a very sick person.  He went off the deep in and would come back at times.  Don't know what happened to her/him.  I believe I tracked him/her off the coast of Venezuela at the southern end while we were blogging and e-mailing, but that has been at least two years, I guess.    Jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 28, 2008, 09:19:51 AM
11:37 am simian says:
Her decapitated body to be found. Her head to wash up on shore later.

altho I'm not clear on how washing up on shore
relates to a quarry filled w/ water ... ?


shango said Mary never heard the buoy toll ...
buoys being objects found in seas or lakes, more often than not.
so in relation to a buoy, shango did mention water
but more likely it was ocean water, given the context

some believe not hearing the buoy toll
meant she was unconscious when she was transported to sea ...
some believe it meant she was never taken to the ocean

This is known to be a fake Simian post from a location somewhere in Colorado.   

ah so, that explains why the post doesn't fit the situation

good to know, thank you  :cool:

  A bouy toll give a warning and she did not hear it because she trusted them or was messed up enough to get into the car with them.  There is a road that goes into a cave that is well hidden, large enough to drive cars into.  I believe it has an outlet that comes into the water.  I trust Shango, not Simian.     Jack blue

may relate to the following:

rolled INTO the maze to play with lions (finish line=beach)

rolled THROUGH the maze

JVDS afraid to walk THROUGH the maze

more than one house of music

-so, if the finish line was dropping an unconscious NH on the beach to eventually awaken, looks like there was something more to this particular "maze menu item"



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 28, 2008, 09:30:11 AM
along those same lines, I've always been intrigued by post #300 here:
http://www.bastardly.com/archives/2005/07/23/what-really-happened-to-natalee-holloway/#comment-713055




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 28, 2008, 10:57:21 AM
9:41 pm shango says:
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA


Shango clearly says...


LM,

Surely you jest. lol.

Fin

Of course.  Seems my humor often gets lost in this thread.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 28, 2008, 11:07:30 AM
9:41 pm shango says:
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA


Shango clearly says...


LM,

Surely you jest. lol.

Fin

Yes, here is where they should have search in 2005.

hope we are not late. Lets wait and see what these comming day will bring.



CLW,

Would that rhyme have to be changed now?

One straight path
to the house of Rave
while of gold bricks
the road is now paved
a white truck

answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA


Fin

Keep in mind that Caps does not make any connection with Lorenzo or a rave house he may have had.  Caps is talking about a place such as apartments.  If I have that incorrect, he will inevitably correct me. As he should. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 28, 2008, 11:25:56 AM

Babalú Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:26 pm
The kidnapper is not Aruban
Van Rijn can not be pressured
The FBI would close in on the whole operation
The Arubans are prepared to give somebody as a token culprit
They will not sacrifice Steve Croes


Rember DirtyHand is PAUls other son


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 28, 2008, 11:31:05 AM
 ::MonkeyCool::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/FinbarSmoking.gif)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 28, 2008, 11:40:50 AM
9:41 pm shango says:
One straight path
to the house of Rave, (lions)
while of gold bricks   (honey laden notes)
the road is not paved, (poison notes...you won't win)
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:36 pm
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.


Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.
But not to satiate desire.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 28, 2008, 01:25:32 PM
Caps....can you show me where 7A Catiri is on a map please?

Is it in the same area as Joran's and Freddy's?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on February 28, 2008, 02:25:36 PM
shango said Mary never heard the buoy toll ...

some believe not hearing the buoy toll
meant she was unconscious when she was transported to sea ...
some believe it meant she was never taken to the ocean

A bouy toll give a warning and she did not hear it because she trusted them or was messed up enough to get into the car with them. 
yes, had forgotten this interpretation, which I like.
thank you

note to self: be less literal when "thinking shango"

I trust Shango, not Simian. 
ditto    


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on February 28, 2008, 02:30:43 PM
something I read long ago ...
hope I have credited it to the correct poster

Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:02 pm mcrhme says:

...........in the very begining after there were no more shango posts when someone else mentioned to a moderater that perhaps shango had still been posting under different names and in a different manner
 
The reply was that Shango was indeed among us

The poster replied: im not suprised

The moderater replied: i didnt think you would be suprised and carry on




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 28, 2008, 02:53:09 PM
something I read long ago ...
hope I have credited it to the correct poster

Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:02 pm mcrhme says:

...........in the very begining after there were no more shango posts when someone else mentioned to a moderater that perhaps shango had still been posting under different names and in a different manner
 
The reply was that Shango was indeed among us

The poster replied: im not suprised

The moderater replied: i didnt think you would be suprised and carry on




I've researched this and NOT as far as I can tell, not on the front page of SM nor in the forum.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 28, 2008, 03:46:17 PM
something I read long ago ...
hope I have credited it to the correct poster

Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:02 pm mcrhme says:

...........in the very begining after there were no more shango posts when someone else mentioned to a moderater that perhaps shango had still been posting under different names and in a different manner
 
The reply was that Shango was indeed among us

The poster replied: im not suprised

The moderater replied: i didnt think you would be suprised and carry on





OMG!  I remember mcrhme well...too well, in fact. That was one vile poster IIRC. :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 28, 2008, 03:55:26 PM
Freddy was used as a patsy: a person who is easily manipulated aka as a Sucker.

The cover-up started at the beginning, lie to Freddy and have Freddy tell what he believes to be the truth. 


Maybe....but nobody heard of Freddy until August.

I think Freddy may just be the real key...

Now all we have to do is find the real 'Freddy'...

I am still wondered why they slipped him out the back door when he was released.

I bet I know who the F.A. held for 6 hours was when GVC was arrested was!!!

Oh my...what a tangled web...

Freddy Zedan Arambatzis Arends

Frederick Arends

Max Arends/Arendz

Guido/David/Lorenzo Wever

Will the real Pimps....Please stand up!

Will have to read Mirian in the morning....

We know the hand is Freddy's, but is it he real 'Freddy'?

Or is it a fake?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Rob on February 28, 2008, 03:55:48 PM
Dr. Maurice Godwin made the map.

http://www.investigativepsych.com/

He is the investigator working the Tara Grinsted case and found the tooth under the bed, broken leg to the bed, the drop of blood in the car port and other items missing by the police.

He was kind enough to make the map for us. He made the map in Jessica Lunsford's case. And she was located in the anchor point where he said she would be.

http://www.investigativepsych.com/newvitae2002.PDF

Tracker - Hunting down serial killers.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1560256346/ref=sib_dp_pt/104-3398044-3462369#reader-link


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MsVada on February 28, 2008, 04:06:41 PM
something I read long ago ...
hope I have credited it to the correct poster

Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:02 pm mcrhme says:

...........in the very begining after there were no more shango posts when someone else mentioned to a moderater that perhaps shango had still been posting under different names and in a different manner
 
The reply was that Shango was indeed among us

The poster replied: im not suprised

The moderater replied: i didnt think you would be suprised and carry on




I've researched this and NOT as far as I can tell, not on the front page of SM nor in the forum.

I however remember this as I was here posting when the moderator made this comment.  Let me see if I have it somewhere saved as anything back then may be gone,  it was definately in the codetalkers forum,  I know this because mcrhme was such a jerk most of the time to us and wouldn't just go away.
MsVada

Finngirl,  Long time since we've chatted.....if you still have my email, its the same.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MsVada on February 28, 2008, 04:11:52 PM
The archives only go to june 30th,  I know it was after that that the moderator said that in the forum to mcrhme and others posting at that time.....If I am not mistaken, the moderator at the  time was RB???  Does anyone else remember this?  I know Snorkletoes was around then, and so was BestBuddy and a few others.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 28, 2008, 04:15:06 PM
I know this has already been posted.

Capslock!  Excellent!  Does this say they are using the side scan sonar? 

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Bondia022808search.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 28, 2008, 04:15:47 PM
Dr. Maurice Godwin made the map.

http://www.investigativepsych.com/

He is the investigator working the Tara Grinsted case and found the tooth under the bed, broken leg to the bed, the drop of blood in the car port and other items missing by the police.

He was kind enough to make the map for us. He made the map in Jessica Lunsford's case. And she was located in the anchor point where he said she would be.

http://www.investigativepsych.com/newvitae2002.PDF

Tracker - Hunting down serial killers.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1560256346/ref=sib_dp_pt/104-3398044-3462369#reader-link

Thanks Rob!  I was hoping to draw you out for an explanation about that map.  I knew you were the original poster of it and wanted the low down on it's source and the reasoning behind it.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 28, 2008, 04:18:32 PM
I know this has already been posted.

Capslock!  Excellent!  Does this say they are using the side scan sonar? 

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Bondia022808search.jpg)

Why didn't we take the "Papiamento in Five Easy Lessons" course two years ago?  LOL

Yes, this is wonderful news.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 28, 2008, 04:18:36 PM
The archives only go to june 30th,  I know it was after that that the moderator said that in the forum to mcrhme and others posting at that time.....If I am not mistaken, the moderator at the  time was RB???  Does anyone else remember this?  I know Snorkletoes was around then, and so was BestBuddy and a few others.

Early moderators were, Catriana, RB, Caligirl, Absolute, Thorazine.  I believe RB, Absolute and Thorazine were Admin but many just Absolute...not sure on that.  There were a couple other moderators as well but I don't recall at the moment.  After September 2005 they were all gone.  For a long time I was the ONLY moderator.  FYI - they were all gone for a reason  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Rob on February 28, 2008, 04:26:11 PM
Here is a map that Carpe added a few points of interest to...
Rooi Santo = Racquet club

(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g130/arubapictures1/ujjuju.png)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: ala_gunslinger on February 28, 2008, 04:26:15 PM
The archives only go to june 30th,  I know it was after that that the moderator said that in the forum to mcrhme and others posting at that time.....If I am not mistaken, the moderator at the  time was RB???  Does anyone else remember this?  I know Snorkletoes was around then, and so was BestBuddy and a few others.

Early moderators were, Catriana, RB, Caligirl, Absolute, Thorazine.  I believe RB, Absolute and Thorazine were Admin but many just Absolute...not sure on that.  There were a couple other moderators as well but I don't recall at the moment.  After September 2005 they were all gone.  For a long time I was the ONLY moderator.  FYI - they were all gone for a reason  ::MonkeyWink::

Yes, I remember.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 28, 2008, 05:37:04 PM

By the way Caps.... After looking at Fin's cigarette and comparing to yours.....just curious as to exactly what that is you're smoking, yours seems to be much thinner than Fins.....
 ::MonkeyEek::   ::MonkeyWink::  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Tex,

Them's Marlboro 100's - John Wayne Killers.

Fin

No, My Brand is More....very slim....and it hits hard. LOL

Caps,

I know More brand.

Some once say me Bob Marley's braddah.

Now if I culd just get that smoke with a glowing ember on tha end....

Ire,
Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 28, 2008, 05:40:48 PM
I know this has already been posted.

Capslock!  Excellent!  Does this say they are using the side scan sonar? 

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Bondia022808search.jpg)

Why didn't we take the "Papiamento in Five Easy Lessons" course two years ago?  LOL

Yes, this is wonderful news.

Lmum,

You should have double majored in Shango 101 too. That was the course where things were clearly stated. lol

Fin




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on February 28, 2008, 05:55:57 PM
I know this has already been posted.

Capslock!  Excellent!  Does this say they are using the side scan sonar? 

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Bondia022808search.jpg)

Why didn't we take the "Papiamento in Five Easy Lessons" course two years ago?  LOL

Yes, this is wonderful news.

Lmum,

You should have double majored in Shango 101 too. That was the course where things were clearly stated. lol

Fin




not Caps, but I saw some discussion about this before I left work maybe over in the reg Natalee thread.  Kyle from the Persistence said that they did do sonar scan but he has not read it yet, he's catching up on other readings and will probably do it sometime this evening.  I wish I'd had the Papiamento and Shango 101 classes also!

 ::MonkeyHaHa::   ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Frijole on February 28, 2008, 06:01:16 PM
I know this has already been posted.

Capslock!  Excellent!  Does this say they are using the side scan sonar? 

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Bondia022808search.jpg)

Why didn't we take the "Papiamento in Five Easy Lessons" course two years ago?  LOL

Yes, this is wonderful news.

Lmum,

You should have double majored in Shango 101 too. That was the course where things were clearly stated. lol

Fin




Be grateful you didn't take the Aruban Criminal Justice course... what a waste that would be.  But it could be had in ONE EASY CLASS.   ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 28, 2008, 06:25:43 PM
What? You guys don't understand Shango? It's crystal clear...as I said before, no one appreciates my humor.  BTW I have been here so long that I have taken Shango 101, 102  and now working on Advanced Shango for Dummies. I think the next class is called Shango Unleashed! LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 28, 2008, 06:54:17 PM

By the way Caps.... After looking at Fin's cigarette and comparing to yours.....just curious as to exactly what that is you're smoking, yours seems to be much thinner than Fins.....
 ::MonkeyEek::   ::MonkeyWink::  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Tex,

Them's Marlboro 100's - John Wayne Killers.

Fin

No, My Brand is More....very slim....and it hits hard. LOL

Caps,

I know More brand.

Some once say me Bob Marley's braddah.

Now if I culd just get that smoke with a glowing ember on tha end....

Ire,
Fin

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Finbar2.gif)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on February 28, 2008, 07:29:55 PM
something I read long ago ...
hope I have credited it to the correct poster

Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:02 pm mcrhme says:

...........in the very begining after there were no more shango posts when someone else mentioned to a moderater that perhaps shango had still been posting under different names and in a different manner
 
The reply was that Shango was indeed among us

The poster replied: im not suprised

The moderater replied: i didnt think you would be suprised and carry on




I've researched this and NOT as far as I can tell, not on the front page of SM nor in the forum.

I however remember this as I was here posting when the moderator made this comment.  Let me see if I have it somewhere saved as anything back then may be gone,  it was definately in the codetalkers forum,  I know this because mcrhme was such a jerk most of the time to us and wouldn't just go away.
MsVada

Finngirl,  Long time since we've chatted.....if you still have my email, its the same.


 :smt039

good memory you have, MsV  :salut:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on February 28, 2008, 07:39:11 PM
The archives only go to june 30th,  I know it was after that that the moderator said that in the forum to mcrhme and others posting at that time.....
yes, that was a July 2005 post ...
July archives never retrieved after that first crash

If I am not mistaken, the moderator at the  time was RB???  Does anyone else remember this? 
Absolut the mod confirmed re shango via PMs to some as well

I know Snorkletoes was around then, and so was BestBuddy and a few others.
BB, of course, along w/
rockyroads, I hear shango, LilOrphan, enigma, omega, Dallas Also, eleye, Dan in Tx ...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 28, 2008, 07:55:25 PM
Well today was a long day,

Yesterday the group use the side scanner to map the whole area of the pond. This will give them a clear view what is in there. The still have to load all the data and come back with a verdict.

The area in question is very large and with 3 possibility.

Pos.1 - The old rave club was closed in When Mathew went to Jail.

and it has never been open since...the doors and windows are boarded up completely.

Pos 2. - The Water in murky and has a deep end. and if some walked in, your clothing will be full of this green and mud. There is also a lot of ants. once step where it is dried.

This made me think about Kalpoe has ants in the Car.

Pos 3. - when the pond fills up, it will overflow under a bridge. The Bridge is made of 3 one meter wide very long pipes that will end in an another water basin..Need to check these one meter wide pipes in its entirely.

The chance to hide a body it is plausible since you have to get your self dirty when you go into one of these pipes.

There was a White Pickup over there and it has some black strips at the doors.

This remind me about what Fin said. Fin where there and how you know about the white pickup.

Also I think he came to take picture.

CAPS



and  and 3 pipes that


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 28, 2008, 08:02:59 PM
So Lala:

Who is Shango.

Is It Alex Mathew?

and Simian (C.B)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on February 28, 2008, 08:11:08 PM
Well today was a long day,

Yesterday the group use the side scanner to map the whole area of the pond. This will give them a clear view what is in there. The still have to load all the data and come back with a verdict.

The area in question is very large and with 3 possibility.

Pos.1 - The old rave club was closed in When Mathew went to Jail.

and it has never been open since...the doors and windows are boarded up completely.

Pos 2. - The Water in murky and has a deep end. and if some walked in, your clothing will be full of this green and mud. There is also a lot of ants. once step where it is dried.

This made me think about Kalpoe has ants in the Car.

Pos 3. - when the pond fills up, it will overflow under a bridge. The Bridge is made of 3 one meter wide very long pipes that will end in an another water basin..Need to check these one meter wide pipes in its entirely.

The chance to hide a body it is plausible since you have to get your self dirty when you go into one of these pipes.

There was a White Pickup over there and it has some black strips at the doors.

This remind me about what Fin said. Fin where there and how you know about the white pickup.

Also I think he came to take picture.

CAPS




thanks for the update Caps!  Do you have to go through the mud to get to the pipes that you described?  Sounds as if the pipes could have made a temporary hiding place, until they could arrange for permanent disposal?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on February 28, 2008, 08:19:03 PM
I remember something about a white truck being discussed earlier also.  I think it was in regards to the body being removed from the bushes and wrapped in plastic and put in the back of the truck.  I'm going to look, that was from memory and I have too much saved information to be sure, lol.  I'll be back.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 28, 2008, 08:24:13 PM
So Lala:

Who is Shango.

Is It Alex Mathew?

and Simian (C.B)



Mathew would need to live in Florida to be Shango...OR...have a good friend there. 

Simian? I was hoping you would ask for me?  Please.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 28, 2008, 08:24:57 PM
What? You guys don't understand Shango? It's crystal clear...as I said before, no one appreciates my humor.  BTW I have been here so long that I have taken Shango 101, 102  and now working on Advanced Shango for Dummies. I think the next class is called Shango Unleashed! LOL

My C.S.I Degree from the University of Cryptologic consist of Simian 101, Simian 102, and Strategic Cryptology science given by Prof. Clyde Burk.

The books material are intro to Shango, How to Shango, The complete Shango and The new Encyclopedia of Shango.
These books where written by Alex Mathew.

My PhD. Degree, I had to write a a Logic Thesis Report title "The LOGIC Question Report" for graduation.

and to defend my report I had to prove the XTC DNA.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 28, 2008, 08:31:16 PM
What? You guys don't understand Shango? It's crystal clear...as I said before, no one appreciates my humor.  BTW I have been here so long that I have taken Shango 101, 102  and now working on Advanced Shango for Dummies. I think the next class is called Shango Unleashed! LOL

My C.S.I Degree from the University of Cryptologic consist of Simian 101, Simian 102, and Strategic Cryptology science given by Prof. Clyde Burk.

The books material are intro to Shango, How to Shango, The complete Shango and The new Encyclopedia of Shango.
These books where written by Alex Mathew.

My PhD. Degree, I had to write a a Logic Thesis Report title "The LOGIC Question Report" for graduation.

and to defend my report I had to prove the XTC DNA.


and Not to forgetmy mentors LALA, HotShot, Klaasend and all The monkeys that we have reach a way to begin searching in Aruba Again. this is just the begining and not the end. End? It will never end. Its Already in the books of histories.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on February 28, 2008, 08:31:30 PM
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1059.msg308197 (http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1059.msg308197)

Reply #103 Pictures but no info, I'm still looking....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on February 28, 2008, 08:37:59 PM
Well today was a long day,

Yesterday the group use the side scanner to map the whole area of the pond. This will give them a clear view what is in there. The still have to load all the data and come back with a verdict.

The area in question is very large and with 3 possibility.

Pos.1 - The old rave club was closed in When Mathew went to Jail.

and it has never been open since...the doors and windows are boarded up completely.

Pos 2. - The Water in murky and has a deep end. and if some walked in, your clothing will be full of this green and mud. There is also a lot of ants. once step where it is dried.

This made me think about Kalpoe has ants in the Car.

Pos 3. - when the pond fills up, it will overflow under a bridge. The Bridge is made of 3 one meter wide very long pipes that will end in an another water basin..Need to check these one meter wide pipes in its entirely.

The chance to hide a body it is plausible since you have to get your self dirty when you go into one of these pipes.

There was a White Pickup over there and it has some black strips at the doors.

This remind me about what Fin said. Fin where there and how you know about the white pickup.

Also I think he came to take picture.

CAPS



and  and 3 pipes that


another water basin. was this the  BASIN   that had the bag in it ?[/b]


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 28, 2008, 08:46:53 PM
What? You guys don't understand Shango? It's crystal clear...as I said before, no one appreciates my humor.  BTW I have been here so long that I have taken Shango 101, 102  and now working on Advanced Shango for Dummies. I think the next class is called Shango Unleashed! LOL

My C.S.I Degree from the University of Cryptologic consist of Simian 101, Simian 102, and Strategic Cryptology science given by Prof. Clyde Burk.

The books material are intro to Shango, How to Shango, The complete Shango and The new Encyclopedia of Shango.
These books where written by Alex Mathew.

My PhD. Degree, I had to write a a Logic Thesis Report title "The LOGIC Question Report" for graduation.

and to defend my report I had to prove the XTC DNA.


I have been meaning to ask...how long have those exotic dinner places been in Aruba? Are there more than one?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 28, 2008, 08:55:25 PM
Well I did not know till I check where the pipes are leading to.

I will have picture of the pipes tomorrow.

to get in the pipes, one must put on a coverall becuase you will get dirty and it is very dark and a long walk. to the other end.

I need big light to check these pipes.

when the pond fills up, all the debry stay in the pond only the water will move to the other end in another waterbasin. I never know about this but my dad has clearyfy it. The rain water will move to another water basin. anything large and havy will stay in the pipe since the water flow is not strong. The flow only start when the pond fills-up.

Will check it but it has a horrable stenge.

I will take some picture to compare.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on February 28, 2008, 08:58:59 PM
Not exactly what I was looking for but discusses the white truck.....

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/10/20/aruba-skeleton-found-by-tourists-was-remains-of-shipwrecked-sailor-from-1886-that-was-fast/ (http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/10/20/aruba-skeleton-found-by-tourists-was-remains-of-shipwrecked-sailor-from-1886-that-was-fast/)

Response #44
Patti on October 21st, 2007 5:05 pm
Richard:
The cage that was stolen from the fisherman’s hut was reported early in the morning, long before the reports went out about Natalee missing. In addition, there was a white truck that was seen by an eyewitness. Around the same time, another white truck seen on the beach near the Marriott with three men lifting the body of a woman into the truck bed was also reported.
We know that GVC owned a Mitsibishi similar to the one that was seen at the fisherman’s huts while Guido owns a white truck similar to the one seen at the Marriott. We also know that the phone calls made to the Kalpoes and to Paulus were made from that location at or around the same time that these things were witnessed.
I know there are red herrings in this case, but I don’t believe that this is one of them. If anything it ties all those things that were a mystery to us together and explains why Paulus was in that area around 4am.
************************


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MsVada on February 28, 2008, 09:06:09 PM
The archives only go to june 30th,  I know it was after that that the moderator said that in the forum to mcrhme and others posting at that time.....
yes, that was a July 2005 post ...
July archives never retrieved after that first crash

If I am not mistaken, the moderator at the  time was RB???  Does anyone else remember this? 
Absolut the mod confirmed re shango via PMs to some as well

I know Snorkletoes was around then, and so was BestBuddy and a few others.
BB, of course, along w/
rockyroads, I hear shango, LilOrphan, enigma, omega, Dallas Also, eleye, Dan in Tx ...


well you just proved your memory is better than mine ::MonkeyWink::
Absolut is who the moderator was,  I do remember RB too though.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 28, 2008, 09:09:22 PM
What? You guys don't understand Shango? It's crystal clear...as I said before, no one appreciates my humor.  BTW I have been here so long that I have taken Shango 101, 102  and now working on Advanced Shango for Dummies. I think the next class is called Shango Unleashed! LOL

My C.S.I Degree from the University of Cryptologic consist of Simian 101, Simian 102, and Strategic Cryptology science given by Prof. Clyde Burk.

The books material are intro to Shango, How to Shango, The complete Shango and The new Encyclopedia of Shango.
These books where written by Alex Mathew.

My PhD. Degree, I had to write a a Logic Thesis Report title "The LOGIC Question Report" for graduation.

and to defend my report I had to prove the XTC DNA.


I have been meaning to ask...how long have those exotic dinner places been in Aruba? Are there more than one?


There are several, chinese Rest. But in Indonisia or how the Dutch call it, Lekker exotic dinners is only one. The food they sell is mostly Dutch chinese Cuisine.

Not The House of Rave. There is several House of rave in Aruba but in Noord there is none left.

Alex had the last one and it was Called Spice Night Club. Meaning hot, sexy, you know. He was robed of all this and end up in Jail. The palce is till there but to find it you had to know what was in Noord as house of Rave.

From the House of Joran there is was a House of Rave that night but not gold brick.

on a straight path means from the Police station go straight. Pass the house of Rave (Alex old SPICE Night Club)
To the Gold Bricks (These are the Fininacial Institution) Banks - Aruba Bank

Trun Left till the dirt road....on the Dirt road you will find the pond.

The pond is Behine the Restaurant LEKKER RESTAURANT (e X o T i C   D i N n A (r)

Here is the mistery


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on February 28, 2008, 09:13:21 PM
Caps do you have the basin pictures I'm talking about


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on February 28, 2008, 09:15:16 PM
Not exactly what I was looking for but discusses the white truck.....

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/10/20/aruba-skeleton-found-by-tourists-was-remains-of-shipwrecked-sailor-from-1886-that-was-fast/ (http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/10/20/aruba-skeleton-found-by-tourists-was-remains-of-shipwrecked-sailor-from-1886-that-was-fast/)

Response #44
Patti on October 21st, 2007 5:05 pm
Richard:
The cage that was stolen from the fisherman’s hut was reported early in the morning, long before the reports went out about Natalee missing. In addition, there was a white truck that was seen by an eyewitness. Around the same time, another white truck seen on the beach near the Marriott with three men lifting the body of a woman into the truck bed was also reported.
We know that GVC owned a Mitsibishi similar to the one that was seen at the fisherman’s huts while Guido owns a white truck similar to the one seen at the Marriott. We also know that the phone calls made to the Kalpoes and to Paulus were made from that location at or around the same time that these things were witnessed.
I know there are red herrings in this case, but I don’t believe that this is one of them. If anything it ties all those things that were a mystery to us together and explains why Paulus was in that area around 4am.
************************


finbar look at the pictures of the white trucks at the link


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 28, 2008, 09:22:50 PM
Not exactly what I was looking for but discusses the white truck.....

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/10/20/aruba-skeleton-found-by-tourists-was-remains-of-shipwrecked-sailor-from-1886-that-was-fast/ (http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/10/20/aruba-skeleton-found-by-tourists-was-remains-of-shipwrecked-sailor-from-1886-that-was-fast/)

Response #44
Patti on October 21st, 2007 5:05 pm
Richard:
The cage that was stolen from the fisherman’s hut was reported early in the morning, long before the reports went out about Natalee missing. In addition, there was a white truck that was seen by an eyewitness. Around the same time, another white truck seen on the beach near the Marriott with three men lifting the body of a woman into the truck bed was also reported.
We know that GVC owned a Mitsibishi similar to the one that was seen at the fisherman’s huts while Guido owns a white truck similar to the one seen at the Marriott. We also know that the phone calls made to the Kalpoes and to Paulus were made from that location at or around the same time that these things were witnessed.
I know there are red herrings in this case, but I don’t believe that this is one of them. If anything it ties all those things that were a mystery to us together and explains why Paulus was in that area around 4am.
************************



the white pickup truck, seems to be watch for something he came 3 time and just sit there and watching... very strange. A scary feeling, there is nobody in the area except on the main road. At night, No one will know you are over there no one, perfect hiding place.  The aruba Bank is right there and now tinking of it, Paul must have use it to destract the guard to move to the ATM so no to see what was going on.

He did it twice. I wonder why?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 28, 2008, 11:02:18 PM

By the way Caps.... After looking at Fin's cigarette and comparing to yours.....just curious as to exactly what that is you're smoking, yours seems to be much thinner than Fins.....
 ::MonkeyEek::   ::MonkeyWink::  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Tex,

Them's Marlboro 100's - John Wayne Killers.

Fin

Thank you.

What dat sweet smell? lol

Fin



No, My Brand is More....very slim....and it hits hard. LOL

Caps,

I know More brand.

Some once say me Bob Marley's braddah.

Now if I culd just get that smoke with a glowing ember on tha end....

Ire,
Fin

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Finbar2.gif)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 28, 2008, 11:06:27 PM

Caps,

I know More brand.

Some once say me Bob Marley's braddah.

Now if I culd just get that smoke with a glowing ember on tha end....

Ire,
Fin

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Finbar2.gif)

Klaas,

Thank you.

That sweet smell made me post go swirly.

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 28, 2008, 11:09:34 PM
What? You guys don't understand Shango? It's crystal clear...as I said before, no one appreciates my humor.  BTW I have been here so long that I have taken Shango 101, 102  and now working on Advanced Shango for Dummies. I think the next class is called Shango Unleashed! LOL

My C.S.I Degree from the University of Cryptologic consist of Simian 101, Simian 102, and Strategic Cryptology science given by Prof. Clyde Burk.

The books material are intro to Shango, How to Shango, The complete Shango and The new Encyclopedia of Shango.
These books where written by Alex Mathew.

My PhD. Degree, I had to write a a Logic Thesis Report title "The LOGIC Question Report" for graduation.

and to defend my report I had to prove the XTC DNA.


I have been meaning to ask...how long have those exotic dinner places been in Aruba? Are there more than one?


There are several, chinese Rest. But in Indonisia or how the Dutch call it, Lekker exotic dinners is only one. The food they sell is mostly Dutch chinese Cuisine.

Not The House of Rave. There is several House of rave in Aruba but in Noord there is none left.

Alex had the last one and it was Called Spice Night Club. Meaning hot, sexy, you know. He was robed of all this and end up in Jail. The palce is till there but to find it you had to know what was in Noord as house of Rave.

From the House of Joran there is was a House of Rave that night but not gold brick.

on a straight path means from the Police station go straight. Pass the house of Rave (Alex old SPICE Night Club)
To the Gold Bricks (These are the Fininacial Institution) Banks - Aruba Bank

Trun Left till the dirt road....on the Dirt road you will find the pond.

The pond is Behine the Restaurant LEKKER RESTAURANT (e X o T i C   D i N n A (r)

Here is the mistery


Now, let me make sure this is correct so everyone will understand what you are saying.
This Lekker Restaurant is the XTC DNA reference from Shango.  Alex Matthews once owned such a place called the Spice Night Club and this was at one time a Rave house. In essence Shango was telling us exactly where this pond they searched was located. Just trying to make it clearer for those that don't often venture in here. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 28, 2008, 11:12:20 PM
One more question....does Alex Matthews like to deep sea fish?  Anyone know?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 28, 2008, 11:15:34 PM
OOPS!  Another question....Caps, do you remember our discussion about the road that is now paved and has the white pickup?  It's in this thread somewhere, but I doubt I could find it now. LOL  I am sure Mum remembers...well, maybe. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on February 28, 2008, 11:19:46 PM
OOPS!  Another question....Caps, do you remember our discussion about the road that is now paved and has the white pickup?  It's in this thread somewhere, but I doubt I could find it now. LOL  I am sure Mum remembers...well, maybe. LOL

Um....just stopping by and can't stay long, but I thought Caps said the road is still not paved....wish I didn't have personal life things interfering with my forum time.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 28, 2008, 11:33:34 PM
OOPS!  Another question....Caps, do you remember our discussion about the road that is now paved and has the white pickup?  It's in this thread somewhere, but I doubt I could find it now. LOL  I am sure Mum remembers...well, maybe. LOL

Um....just stopping by and can't stay long, but I thought Caps said the road is still not paved....wish I didn't have personal life things interfering with my forum time.

You are right...see I knew someone would remember.   The nerve of people thinking they are more important than your time with us. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on February 28, 2008, 11:49:30 PM
OOPS!  Another question....Caps, do you remember our discussion about the road that is now paved and has the white pickup?  It's in this thread somewhere, but I doubt I could find it now. LOL  I am sure Mum remembers...well, maybe. LOL
Lala's are You talking about the white pickup in front of Lorenzo's house....I think that the pics are in this thread in the pages between 60 and 75 maybe I don't have time now to look but maybe later....  ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 29, 2008, 12:35:16 AM
One more question....does Alex Matthews like to deep sea fish?  Anyone know?

Yes he allways charter a boat with his friends when they came to Aruba.
When he started the New Millenium Secuirty Group, He was respected by everyone. but he was hated bay those that allway want to twist the law.

Alex and his crew when they are hired as bouncer for a party, nobody will fool these guys. ID check metal check they had the control of the the situation.

When he presented the proposal to gaurd the hotels and to setup the Visibility team, that was his plans...it did not come from Jeff Lesker, nor from these hotel owners. He left it on jeff Desk as a proposal for his company.

But what made the differance where the color of their skin. The intimidation just becuase of the color of the skin, The descrimination runs deep in the New AHATA run VISIBILITY TEAM.

Just ask yourself, since when is a GM a Law enforceman.

Their job is only to watch the revenue for their properties. Thats all you here allways comming from the Financial controller "The Bottom Line this week is so and so, but we have made Par "

Hotel Lingo.

The CAPS


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 29, 2008, 12:39:01 AM
OOPS!  Another question....Caps, do you remember our discussion about the road that is now paved and has the white pickup?  It's in this thread somewhere, but I doubt I could find it now. LOL  I am sure Mum remembers...well, maybe. LOL
Lala's are You talking about the white pickup in front of Lorenzo's house....I think that the pics are in this thread in the pages between 60 and 75 maybe I don't have time now to look but maybe later....  ::MonkeyConfused::


Yes I still have in my mind..It is that what I wanted to explore with the group tomorrow. emails

have some new info. KIA source but need to make sure it is the right info.... it is in the pipeline and not forgotten...



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 29, 2008, 01:00:44 AM
OOPS!  Another question....Caps, do you remember our discussion about the road that is now paved and has the white pickup?  It's in this thread somewhere, but I doubt I could find it now. LOL  I am sure Mum remembers...well, maybe. LOL

Um....just stopping by and can't stay long, but I thought Caps said the road is still not paved....wish I didn't have personal life things interfering with my forum time.

You are right...see I knew someone would remember.   The nerve of people thinking they are more important than your time with us. LOL


The house in the other area of the island where the driveway was not paved is now paved.

this is what they say....we need to confirm if it has new asfalt on it. the asfalt is new they say and the loot is under the asfalt.

The source will be checked again but I have a couple of Q. to ask him to see if what he knows and say can be veryfied.

I did not forget the probability that they would do this but first lets finish one task and move to the other.

CAPS


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 29, 2008, 01:14:35 AM
What? You guys don't understand Shango? It's crystal clear...as I said before, no one appreciates my humor.  BTW I have been here so long that I have taken Shango 101, 102  and now working on Advanced Shango for Dummies. I think the next class is called Shango Unleashed! LOL

My C.S.I Degree from the University of Cryptologic consist of Simian 101, Simian 102, and Strategic Cryptology science given by Prof. Clyde Burk.

The books material are intro to Shango, How to Shango, The complete Shango and The new Encyclopedia of Shango.
These books where written by Alex Mathew.

My PhD. Degree, I had to write a a Logic Thesis Report title "The LOGIC Question Report" for graduation.

and to defend my report I had to prove the XTC DNA.


I have been meaning to ask...how long have those exotic dinner places been in Aruba? Are there more than one?


There are several, chinese Rest. But in Indonisia or how the Dutch call it, Lekker exotic dinners is only one. The food they sell is mostly Dutch chinese Cuisine.

Not The House of Rave. There is several House of rave in Aruba but in Noord there is none left.

Alex had the last one and it was Called Spice Night Club. Meaning hot, sexy, you know. He was robed of all this and end up in Jail. The palce is till there but to find it you had to know what was in Noord as house of Rave.

From the House of Joran there is was a House of Rave that night but not gold brick.

on a straight path means from the Police station go straight. Pass the house of Rave (Alex old SPICE Night Club)
To the Gold Bricks (These are the Fininacial Institution) Banks - Aruba Bank

Trun Left till the dirt road....on the Dirt road you will find the pond.

The pond is Behine the Restaurant LEKKER RESTAURANT (e X o T i C   D i N n A (r)

Here is the mistery


Now, let me make sure this is correct so everyone will understand what you are saying.
This Lekker Restaurant is the XTC DNA reference from Shango.  Alex Matthews once owned such a place called the Spice Night Club and this was at one time a Rave house. In essence Shango was telling us exactly where this pond they searched was located. Just trying to make it clearer for those that don't often venture in here. 

Yes he did, but I wonder why nobody look at it at that time in 2005. I did not even know it exisited.


Yes this is the answer of the Riddle (part of it) still other part to be solved... but the players knew about this... all alone.

But Simain say to search the MOKO pond and that it the pond that Texas search. but the place of the maze has change.

The cops did try to direct them to Moko while shango was trying yo direct them to Monserat.

This make more logic about the 4:10 AM (around that time) pickup at McDonnald. He was scared and was walking fast face down full of MUD missing the right foot Shoe.


I wonder if he still has foot pain?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 29, 2008, 01:23:20 AM
Caps do you have the basin pictures I'm talking about

Hi blond:

I will check it in the moring...

SHANGO SAYS: THE TIME is NOW 2:20 am the zzzzzzzzz are calling.

LOL

Night all..

Fin..

One more MORE before zzzz


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on February 29, 2008, 02:00:36 AM
It would appear following the Natalee Holloway reenactment many tips came in to the show ...

... an unidentified woman called the hotline after the show to report seeing four sweaty boys leaving the beach with a shovel the night Natalee disappeared.
http://scaredmonkeys.com/index.php?s=opsporing

There was also a reporting that around 02:30 on the night Natalee disappeared, a Honda Civic was seen at the Saliña near the Raquet Club. If there are more people that have seen this, please contact the police. A woman had also reported that she had seen four sweaty boys with a shovel on that night in question. The police want to find this woman.
http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2006_04_09_archive.html

04-12-2006, 01:31 PM
From the Opsporing Verzocht website, a different version of when the woman called in:

Specific Female Informer
And to conclude, there was also a woman who made a call on Monday May 30, 2005, to report that she had seen four sweaty boys with a shovel walking on the north side of Aruba. Of course the police want to know who these boys are and what they did there, but the police would also like to have contact with the female informer and to know if there is anyone else who saw these boys.

http://www.opsporingverzocht.nl/index.asp?ID=0

That's quite a difference! It seems the woman called right after Natalee was missing, not a few days ago!

Did she never call again, never get questioned by police, never told any media about that sighting?

04-12-2006, 03:05 PM
Monday, May 30 is the date Natalee disappeared, albeit very early in the a.m. hours that she was last reported seen. Joran says he saw her last about 2:30 a.m., Boeti says he saw her in the early morning hours too, and even the videotape from the Holiday Inn is time-stamped 3 a.m. so it would still have been the same day that a woman reported seeing 4 "sweaty" guys with a shovel on a north beach.

Did she tell beach patrol, I wonder? Or call ALE? Because she thought it a suspicious thing she saw? Because it wasn't known, so we've been told, except by a few people on Aruba May 30 that Natalee was even missing.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38449



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 29, 2008, 05:03:48 AM
OOPS!  Another question....Caps, do you remember our discussion about the road that is now paved and has the white pickup?  It's in this thread somewhere, but I doubt I could find it now. LOL  I am sure Mum remembers...well, maybe. LOL

Um....just stopping by and can't stay long, but I thought Caps said the road is still not paved....wish I didn't have personal life things interfering with my forum time.

You are right...see I knew someone would remember.   The nerve of people thinking they are more important than your time with us. LOL


The house in the other area of the island where the driveway was not paved is now paved.

this is what they say....we need to confirm if it has new asfalt on it. the asfalt is new they say and the loot is under the asfalt.

The source will be checked again but I have a couple of Q. to ask him to see if what he knows and say can be veryfied.

I did not forget the probability that they would do this but first lets finish one task and move to the other.

CAPS

CAPS,

Thanks. That was what I meant to say before. I made a mistake posting "road". I meant driveway.

One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the driveway is now paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA.


CAPS, thanks for what you are doing.

Take your time and go slow.

Don't ask the WRONG questions there(don't put yourself at risk).


Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 29, 2008, 05:05:51 AM

SHANGO SAYS: THE TIME is NOW 2:20 am the zzzzzzzzz are calling.

LOL

Night all..

Fin..

One more MORE before zzzz

 ::MonkeyCool::

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 29, 2008, 05:48:52 AM

This is known to be a fake Simian post from a location somewhere in Colorado. Shango says she is not in the ocean, is what I think he means there, but that's just my opinion. 

Mom,

Care to post all the fake simian posts?

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on February 29, 2008, 05:52:49 AM

By the way Caps.... After looking at Fin's cigarette and comparing to yours.....just curious as to exactly what that is you're smoking, yours seems to be much thinner than Fins.....
 ::MonkeyEek::   ::MonkeyWink::  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Tex,

Them's Marlboro 100's - John Wayne Killers.

Fin

No, My Brand is More....very slim....and it hits hard. LOL

CAPS,

Bob Marley Killers.

Fin



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 29, 2008, 07:33:41 AM
need to know significance of JUN 28

Well that day Lorenzo Van Rijn was questioned,Daury Rodriguez birthday and something else that I cant find at the moment.

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/LorenzoWitnessStatement_small.jpg)
This is from the Dr Phil documents...

Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 1
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness pointing out an area of interest
 
Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness statement about a gray Toyota



June 28th. 2005

Name: Tanis Maria del Carmen Larmonie
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Patricia Wendriks
Description: witness statement by a Security supervisor at the Wyndham

Name: Martha Ruthmila Martis
Date: 28 June 2005 / 15:10
Pages: 2
Writer/Tnitiator: Patricia Wendriks
Description: witness statement by a Holiday Inn supervisor

Name: Luis Ramirez   
Date: 28 June 2005 / 11:15
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Johny Erasmus & Zoraida De Cuba
Description: witness statement by the Kalpoe's stepfather

Name: Freddy Alexander Zedan Arambatzis  
Date:28 June 2005 / 14:25
Pages: 11
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Kelly & Haydee Nadal ..no Jacobs this timeDescription: witness statement

Name: Lorenzo Van Rijn
Date: 28 June 2005 / 17:00
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Giovanni Heyliger
Description: witness statement

Name: Carmen Aurora Jacopucci
Date: 28 June 2005 / 15:55
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs /Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement by a fried of Van der Sloot and Araambatzis

Name: John Charles Croes
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Johny Erasmus / Zoraida De Cuba
Description: Chat traffic
++++++++

It appears to me that it was all over on June 28th....Just tying up loose ends.

Carmen is the only one that Jacobs interviewed....I wonder why?

And we have the Kalpoe stepfather...this always bothered me that he was questioned on the same day as Freddy and Lorenzo.

And the gray toyota...not Deepak's silver Honda...

This is what I found on Karen and have presumed the same applied for Carmen...I need to go back and check the New York City filing.

MARTINA, Karen Theresa Paulina    – Allegedly was in porn video taped by Freddy. Joran admits to having sex with her multiple times.  Was named by JQK as a date rape victim of Joran, but Tacopina claims she has said it was consensual



This would mean that IMO that Jacobs made them change their stories or retract their original stories....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 29, 2008, 07:51:19 AM
Not exactly what I was looking for but discusses the white truck.....

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/10/20/aruba-skeleton-found-by-tourists-was-remains-of-shipwrecked-sailor-from-1886-that-was-fast/ (http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/10/20/aruba-skeleton-found-by-tourists-was-remains-of-shipwrecked-sailor-from-1886-that-was-fast/)

Response #44
Patti on October 21st, 2007 5:05 pm
Richard:
The cage that was stolen from the fisherman’s hut was reported early in the morning, long before the reports went out about Natalee missing. In addition, there was a white truck that was seen by an eyewitness. Around the same time, another white truck seen on the beach near the Marriott with three men lifting the body of a woman into the truck bed was also reported.
We know that GVC owned a Mitsibishi similar to the one that was seen at the fisherman’s huts while Guido owns a white truck similar to the one seen at the Marriott. We also know that the phone calls made to the Kalpoes and to Paulus were made from that location at or around the same time that these things were witnessed.
I know there are red herrings in this case, but I don’t believe that this is one of them. If anything it ties all those things that were a mystery to us together and explains why Paulus was in that area around 4am.
************************



Lala's asked about a white truck a while back and I believe we came up with a pic that was posted in the main thread that was a police truck.

Not sure where the info in Patti's post came from, but in the witness that contacted the FBI letter about GVC, she said he was driving a blue jeep, she thought, on June 9th. The reason GVC was bought in for questioning in April 2006 was from a tip to the dutch TV show about a white car parked at his house. (Or so we were told)

Guido had, I believe a white Sentra, it's in the PV's or book.

Sorry...I can't go back and find the links now....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 29, 2008, 08:02:16 AM

This is known to be a fake Simian post from a location somewhere in Colorado. Shango says she is not in the ocean, is what I think he means there, but that's just my opinion. 

Mom,

Care to post all the fake simian posts?

Fin

Not Lala's, but the real Simian posts are back on page 112...or the links are.

The first link are the ones that Klaas verified to be Simian and the second two links I found from the front page as Caps found some were missing....169 to 179 inclusive.

These seem to fit, but I don't think they were checked by Klaas, but what was a little strange was that Simian posted two in a different thread from the others.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 29, 2008, 08:07:52 AM
Caps…I am still not sure what the ‘responsive to request 41’ means.   TIA
Responsive to Request 41 + Name: Jorge Porras Sanches ....is this like a subphoena?

IIRC you were coming up empty on Freddy Zedan and even said that the name may have been a smokescreen.

Could you please share what you came up with on Freddy and where he lives.

Again TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 29, 2008, 09:38:32 AM
Does anyone think that this picture posted early was trying to show us something important? Not sure is the road to this establishment was paved......but have always felt there was a message.

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a27/clkent1294/deepakcar3.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 29, 2008, 09:42:20 AM
One more question....does Alex Matthews like to deep sea fish?  Anyone know?

....not certain, but I believe he moved to the Ocean State, so could be possible......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 29, 2008, 09:47:29 AM
Caps…I am still not sure what the ‘responsive to request 41’ means.   TIA
Responsive to Request 41 + Name: Jorge Porras Sanches ....is this like a subphoena?

IIRC you were coming up empty on Freddy Zedan and even said that the name may have been a smokescreen.

Could you please share what you came up with on Freddy and where he lives.

Again TIA

It is not a subphoena: it is the Respons to Artikel 41 of penal code of Aruba

Titel III.  Uitsluiting en verhoging van strafbaarheid

Artikel 41

1.   Niet strafbaar is hij die een feit begaat, geboden door de noodzakelijke verdediging van eigen of eens anders lijf, eerbaarheid of goed tegen ogenblikkelijke, wederrechtelijke aanranding.

2.   Niet strafbaar is de overschrijding van de grenzen van noodzakelijke verdediging, indien zij het onmiddellijk gevolg is geweest van een hevige gemoedsbeweging, door de aanranding veroorzaakt.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 29, 2008, 09:48:23 AM
The archives only go to june 30th,  I know it was after that that the moderator said that in the forum to mcrhme and others posting at that time.....If I am not mistaken, the moderator at the  time was RB???  Does anyone else remember this?  I know Snorkletoes was around then, and so was BestBuddy and a few others.

....Karen, the woman who was looking for her son.....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 29, 2008, 09:53:12 AM
Caps…I am still not sure what the ‘responsive to request 41’ means.   TIA
Responsive to Request 41 + Name: Jorge Porras Sanches ....is this like a subphoena?

IIRC you were coming up empty on Freddy Zedan and even said that the name may have been a smokescreen.

Could you please share what you came up with on Freddy and where he lives.

Again TIA

It is not a subphoena: it is the Respons to Artikel 41 of penal code of Aruba

Titel III.  Uitsluiting en verhoging van strafbaarheid

Artikel 41

1.   Niet strafbaar is hij die een feit begaat, geboden door de noodzakelijke verdediging van eigen of eens anders lijf, eerbaarheid of goed tegen ogenblikkelijke, wederrechtelijke aanranding.

2.   Niet strafbaar is de overschrijding van de grenzen van noodzakelijke verdediging, indien zij het onmiddellijk gevolg is geweest van een hevige gemoedsbeweging, door de aanranding veroorzaakt.




Thanks Caps....Good Morning...Could I please have a quick English translation?   TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 29, 2008, 09:55:45 AM
Does anyone think that this picture posted early was trying to show us something important? Not sure is the road to this establishment was paved......but have always felt there was a message.

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a27/clkent1294/deepakcar3.jpg)

This picture looks like they entering a Garage or some building. will check.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 29, 2008, 10:02:09 AM
Good catch Caps.......looked at that many times and never noticed...Is that the same time as the pic with Freddy, Bailey and Alyce in the back seat?..TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 29, 2008, 10:02:50 AM
Caps, not ignoring you, I just can't see any words with your last post with the pic.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 29, 2008, 10:05:54 AM
Hi BB...

Quote Caps
This picture looks like they entering a Garage or some building. will check.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 29, 2008, 10:08:55 AM
Hi BB...

Quote Caps
This picture looks like they entering a Garage or some building. will check.


Thanks Mum....and may I add, I agree.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on February 29, 2008, 10:15:21 AM
Hi BB...

Quote Caps
This picture looks like they entering a Garage or some building. will check.


Thanks Mum....and may I add, I agree.

I may be wrong, but I thought someone was able to lighten that picture long ago and they were riding on the road toward Diamonds International.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 29, 2008, 10:21:24 AM
Hi BB...

Quote Caps
This picture looks like they entering a Garage or some building. will check.


Thanks Mum....and may I add, I agree.

I may be wrong, but I thought someone was able to lighten that picture long ago and they were riding on the road toward Diamonds International.

Hi 2NJ....could be, I don't recall that, but I see a piller, an arch and some signs. If it was the same time as Bailey etc, they have been interviewed by the FBI, so I'm sure they at least know where it is!....LOL

Will have to check dates, but the guy from Diamond's International was questioned like late July or August, maybe it was after this surfaced.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 29, 2008, 10:24:35 AM
Hi BB...

Quote Caps
This picture looks like they entering a Garage or some building. will check.


Thanks Mum....and may I add, I agree.

I may be wrong, but I thought someone was able to lighten that picture long ago and they were riding on the road toward Diamonds International.

Diamonds International was on the sign, but it did appear they were entering a loading area, or an import area? The vantage point of the person taking the pic....and likely the one who posted the pic is unique. Whether this was with Bailey Anne or one of the other
20 tourist girls ....no way to know that I can see. But there seems to be a message MOO. Porn on one of the 2 screens.....photog in the back seat. My guess is that the one taking the pic is the usual cameraman........


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 29, 2008, 10:35:38 AM
Hi BB...

Quote Caps
This picture looks like they entering a Garage or some building. will check.


Thanks Mum....and may I add, I agree.

I may be wrong, but I thought someone was able to lighten that picture long ago and they were riding on the road toward Diamonds International.

Diamonds International was on the sign, but it did appear they were entering a loading area, or an import area? The vantage point of the person taking the pic....and likely the one who posted the pic is unique. Whether this was with Bailey Anne or one of the other
20 tourist girls ....no way to know that I can see. But there seems to be a message MOO. Porn on one of the 2 screens.....photog in the back seat. My guess is that the one taking the pic is the usual cameraman........


I was just trying to remember where I saw that logo and yes it is when you leave C&C to driving toward the bus station.

are there more photos?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 29, 2008, 10:41:22 AM
The white House Apartment garages also looks someting like in the photo but where the logo is, is the door to the apartment.

I was searhing for a word that start with DIKum but it is DIAMONDS



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 29, 2008, 10:43:20 AM
Hi BB...

Quote Caps
This picture looks like they entering a Garage or some building. will check.


Thanks Mum....and may I add, I agree.

I may be wrong, but I thought someone was able to lighten that picture long ago and they were riding on the road toward Diamonds International.

Diamonds International was on the sign, but it did appear they were entering a loading area, or an import area? The vantage point of the person taking the pic....and likely the one who posted the pic is unique. Whether this was with Bailey Anne or one of the other
20 tourist girls ....no way to know that I can see. But there seems to be a message MOO. Porn on one of the 2 screens.....photog in the back seat. My guess is that the one taking the pic is the usual cameraman........


I was just trying to remember where I saw that logo and yes it is when you leave C&C to driving toward the bus station.

are there more photos?


No, no more photos but this was posted to Jorans tickle site. It was felt by many to be sending a message. There were photos posted of Freddy in the back seat of a vehicle with 2 girls, not showing who was in the front seat...no way to know if they were taken at the same time. As the perps have admited to picking up tourists girls on their last nights some 20 times it might represent any one of those times. Having said that , the pic has been looked out closely.....but why was it posted?




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 29, 2008, 10:43:38 AM
Hi BB...

Quote Caps
This picture looks like they entering a Garage or some building. will check.


Thanks Mum....and may I add, I agree.

I may be wrong, but I thought someone was able to lighten that picture long ago and they were riding on the road toward Diamonds International.

Diamonds International was on the sign, but it did appear they were entering a loading area, or an import area? The vantage point of the person taking the pic....and likely the one who posted the pic is unique. Whether this was with Bailey Anne or one of the other
20 tourist girls ....no way to know that I can see. But there seems to be a message MOO. Porn on one of the 2 screens.....photog in the back seat. My guess is that the one taking the pic is the usual cameraman........


I was just trying to remember where I saw that logo and yes it is when you leave C&C to driving toward the bus station.

are there more photos?



Caps...I think there may be....Lala's may remember.

I was thinking the one of Freddy and the two girls was at the same time, but I could be wrong.

Klaas may have more....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 29, 2008, 10:49:28 AM
Quote
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:18 am   
Observations.

The car with Joran right back from the dash leaning in to the sight of the lights which seem to be a drive and hotel lights or club.

I say that as Satish not Deepak, see different ears is leaning to the right and has right hand down as pulling the vehicle into a sharp turn to the lights. Now the lights show a real big place that has an entrance, see rails by the first standard lamp in the windscreen. Is this someone they can see waiting there as the tenseness of the image and who took it is again for a reason. Deepak is the camera man as I always said and so why he took this picture is important.

Start with the window, although it has headrests same as Honda of European spec in Deepaks car, its arch is to high to be the one in the picture. To me retaking this I took it in an SUV pointing up from this angle. This would make Joran who is tall as lower from the ceiling which is apparent. The flipdown dvd and tv monitor is an lcd and larger than 7 inches, look at ratio to head. Now it is placed so high that those in the back can see this dvd player and not on back of headrests so is a demo car or a professionals car, not a young mans. The interior shows that this is not tinted where in contrast the Honda of Deepaks is. The kit used on his is same as my sons in a film over the glass as a self tint kit. It is not the tinted glass used by the garages.

The sitting forward is for Deepak to take the film of this angle from the back and some feature that is very important to all of them. I get the impression that another seat is filled with a fourth or fifth person who is part of this ensemble in the left behind Satish. The reason for this is his seat is pulled forward and there is some fading in the glass as reflection back. This image was taken with a camera phone. I think that this meeting place is a hotel on the island and Arubagirl can tell which hotel has such strategic light as can remember them from researched photos of the islands tourism outlets. This has to be pre Natalee abduction or when?

I am most concerned as all along the Holliday Inn figured and wondered if indeed Fred West style someone buried her in the building works, which would explain seeing guys come down to investigate car pulling in and them seeing them and they in turn being seen. Make sense? Fingure them before they finger you. It is also possible that this image is a trophy photo, so I want to know asp when I 'window it' where it was published, give me the site, when, and who found it. Also what text or other associated pictures went with it. Again Joran is in the front and not back and Deepak is in the right side of the back aiming the camera low at his waist to the windscreen, to show that dvd not omit it, so what was showing on the screen before. It is a portrait image as still life, so all the components a photographer makes are for getting this image as there will be 20 of them and sent into the camera. One does not take one moving picture, one takes a stream in a digital camera phone.

I say it is camera phone as the image is held with one hand when the other person looks at the screen and not the view through a lens as aiming it. The key is the image is recored past that vital standard lamp. In such a strategic pose that is not showing faces but a view of vegetation and a dark area I would as Tim Miller to excavate that area with Aruban police in presence as this is a safety picture. Someone is being met and this is the reason for the picture. They are pulling in and to the right near Jorans head will be a person sos reflections are shadows. See how high the car is in the turn in circle to the height of the lamps. These are solar powered lights and come on at a certain time and are standard hotel issue, so this is a large car park or back entrance as not grand entrance. Could be the valet station, or the sports club as leisure club, not casino as no neon signs seen yet.

Quote
Ozziesmom
   
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:30
I don't think it's Satish driving, it looks like Deepak to me. I think the person in the back seat taking the pic is laying down/leaning somewhat
BUT I'm not sure

Quote
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:42 am   
That is a vehicle in front. The corner of the building is where main lampstandard is and is cream or canary yellow, there is the sharp corner. Now stop and image with zoom in. There is the sensor that comes on when someone approaches to the left of this object in front. On zooming in it takes the shape of a large truck with wheels see side view near Jorans head. In this view pixelated as expected is a person in the visor of this truck or hatch with a light as lamp, so small it is flashing green. You can see white and a white tee shirt if you image where this green light is. Someone is leading them into this place and to this meeting point. It is almost like the way Cornish fishermen led the ships on to rocks as small lit candle lanterns which would explain the green flare. This is a person waiting in a large specifice commercial vehicle and there is a radio transmitter above this flare. Is it a garbage truck. Or is it a produce truck as its wheels are small and close together. This then is not a saloon, and an SUV so as to get this elevation to see this corner angle which a low sedan would not. I recreate scenes to see how they are industrialy orchestrated. This is a street that is off to the side, now is that c and c's then as back entrance where someone parks to the left of that building.

If this is important in someones memory of an overnight parking zone or a rendesvous contact the FBI. Images of that truck might be elsewhere in daylight. I would say this is a young lean man in the view that the camera man has taken and shows what to me seems to be a left handed person as light is on left not right of this shades of white image and 'face'. I have the technology to make this emerge with time, but so do FBI more so than I. Me I use medical imaging software so if it can see a cancer cell more defined it can window this as past experience shows.

None of the participants are ruffled, dirty or unkempt, as back view, Satish has the chains around his neck and is lean, so it is why Deepak is chaperoned to this destination as the main man. But Joran is leaning to this image and is in control of situation, neither is scared, alarmed and are prepared for this turn into this location and hence why I was published. So is this to warn someone that they have the follow on to this and have imaged the occupant who I believe is one of the ham radio operators who are in constant chatter on the airwaves, or was?

Quote
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:18 am    Post subject: Camera    Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
Olympus? See the left wing mirror has caught the light of the screen lit up and the fingures around it, that person is dark skinned like Satish. Again look at the younger brothers head size and hair and see Satish is larger. Satish is not a photographer, he is a gopher, who drives people and keeps himself to himself.

Look in wing mirror, it shows back windown mirror reflected and a saloon would not do that at this angle. In a showroom imaging same way in angles to reconstruct this image. The make of the dvd or tv is a long name. I will look for model and make. Strangely the driver has a persistence with correct driving in putting on his indicator as red light on right side is blinking on dash board, so someone has told him to turn in and so he reacts as a gopher would and follows in to this curve as off the main road, no lights behind in the wing mirror, that is very important.

Why am I open sourcing this? The answer is it is published on the net for others to see. In that Joran and ilk can see my mindset and not remove this image and know I am tracking and more important as Aruba thanks to Reds presence there is logging on to the site here to read. So a break through could come from those who live there identifying the driver in that vehicle and when and where. That would be very important to the search team to find out the motive of the stopping place. The participants were expecting to meet at this location after dark and is not dusk or dawn so very early in the hours of the morning in an area that has a central standard lamp on the approach as seen in the window near the side frame of the vehicle.

See half view of this to the left of the left hand wing mirror. These are lights not sensors, so why both lined standard lamps on either side of square none decorative building as dwelling and sensors as well on the front and side of this well painted and in good order building. I am saying this as at daylight th
e persons as ordinary workers will be congregating at this location and see what is described. I believe Aruba truth will pick it up. Indeed I ask for them to publish this and the features to find this location of the scene taken.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 29, 2008, 10:51:52 AM
Hi BB...

Quote Caps
This picture looks like they entering a Garage or some building. will check.


Thanks Mum....and may I add, I agree.

I may be wrong, but I thought someone was able to lighten that picture long ago and they were riding on the road toward Diamonds International.

Diamonds International was on the sign, but it did appear they were entering a loading area, or an import area? The vantage point of the person taking the pic....and likely the one who posted the pic is unique. Whether this was with Bailey Anne or one of the other
20 tourist girls ....no way to know that I can see. But there seems to be a message MOO. Porn on one of the 2 screens.....photog in the back seat. My guess is that the one taking the pic is the usual cameraman........


I was just trying to remember where I saw that logo and yes it is when you leave C&C to driving toward the bus station.

are there more photos?


No, no more photos but this was posted to Jorans tickle site. It was felt by many to be sending a message. There were photos posted of Freddy in the back seat of a vehicle with 2 girls, not showing who was in the front seat...no way to know if they were taken at the same time. As the perps have admited to picking up tourists girls on their last nights some 20 times it might represent any one of those times. Having said that , the pic has been looked out closely.....but why was it posted?





BB....do you recall how long those tickle sites stayed up?

I recall the 'famous pic' was snipped as no-one knew about Freddy in the beginning. and then Tickle was no more.

Did they remove their sites as they did with myspace?   TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 29, 2008, 10:57:43 AM
Does anyone think that this picture posted early was trying to show us something important? Not sure is the road to this establishment was paved......but have always felt there was a message.

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a27/clkent1294/deepakcar3.jpg)

The picture also show who the driver is and the passenger in front seat

The passenger is Joran..Look at that shirt, Stripes and Green...He was in a shirt like that in one of the photos.

I think going to Jail or comming out of jail or to be interrogated.

I seen that shirt in one of the pictures or was it the movie?   

it is not the Paules...He is a Casino man but Prawls when Anita is not seeing.


LALA:

The Gamblers = Casino man = Paules



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 29, 2008, 11:09:02 AM
I don't think that photo was posted for any reason other than to show us what Deepak, Joran and Freddy do.

The photo originated from Bailey Ann's webshot site.  Last I looked it's still there. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 29, 2008, 11:12:01 AM
Morning!  I have a few things to post, but I am slow today as life has gotten in my way also.  That photo in the car shows the Diamonds International sign.  If you remember it is the one place there is a supposed video of Natalee in the car with the 3 perps. 

Also, Caps....I have one more Alex question for you...you have filled in some really big gaps lately of Shango's identity and such. Things I have wondered about for a while.  The deep sea fishing connection was a big plus for me, thanks.  I am going to peruse a few places and be right back. 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 29, 2008, 11:13:12 AM
I don't think that photo was posted for any reason other than to show us what Deepak, Joran and Freddy do.

The photo originated from Bailey Ann's webshot site.  Last I looked it's still there. 

Klaasend:

Do you have in you archive some of the picures of Joran in hand cuffs or comming out of KIA. going to Police Station...

in several pictures of him, I seems to rember seeing the green shirt.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on February 29, 2008, 11:23:38 AM
Not Klaas but here is one pic...

(http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2007/11/22/amd_joran_sloot.jpg)

(http://judicial-inc.biz/J_Oran52.jpg)

(http://img251.echo.cx/img251/5235/x1pnprgmi5o51c53k3wlvbvxjd5i8j.jpg)

[img]


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 29, 2008, 11:38:07 AM
Not Klaas but here is one pic...

(http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2007/11/22/amd_joran_sloot.jpg)

(http://judicial-inc.biz/J_Oran52.jpg)

(http://img251.echo.cx/img251/5235/x1pnprgmi5o51c53k3wlvbvxjd5i8j.jpg)

[img]


Well there you have it, The shirt that says it all...it is his favorite shirt. He wears it everywhere...

Maybe that is the only nice shirt he has.!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 29, 2008, 11:48:15 AM
Caps
The white truck...do you have any idea about who it was?  I am still on that subject for some reason.  I know you and I have discussed this often concerning the asphalt driveway and the white truck.  You will soon learn that I rarely ask any question that I do not already have some idea what the answer will be.  That is how I do things to either reinforce my ideas or discount completely.  You have to answer with a name...just were you able to recognize the person in the truck? 

BTW, I would like to know more about this Spice Night Club.  I have waited to ask details for a while now...if you would be so kind...I understand it was owned by Matthews and when he went to prison...did it just close or was it sold to someone?  Just curious.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 29, 2008, 12:04:06 PM
Caps…I am still not sure what the ‘responsive to request 41’ means.   TIA
Responsive to Request 41 + Name: Jorge Porras Sanches ....is this like a subphoena?

IIRC you were coming up empty on Freddy Zedan and even said that the name may have been a smokescreen.

Could you please share what you came up with on Freddy and where he lives.

Again TIA

It is not a subphoena: it is the Respons to Artikel 41 of penal code of Aruba

Titel III.  Uitsluiting en verhoging van strafbaarheid

Artikel 41

1.   Niet strafbaar is hij die een feit begaat, geboden door de noodzakelijke verdediging van eigen of eens anders lijf, eerbaarheid of goed tegen ogenblikkelijke, wederrechtelijke aanranding.

2.   Niet strafbaar is de overschrijding van de grenzen van noodzakelijke verdediging, indien zij het onmiddellijk gevolg is geweest van een hevige gemoedsbeweging, door de aanranding veroorzaakt.




Sorry to harp on this...but it's bothering me .....some of this Caps posted a few days ago and I just found the last one(bolded)

Caps...does it make any more sense now?

Last Name:Porras
First Name:Jorge A   
Date of Birth:12/30/1982
Place of Birth:Caracas, Venezuela
Current Address:Rondweg 21, Aruba

Last name:Porras Rodriguez,
Born: Sanchez
First Name: Josefa O   
Date Of Birth: 1/9/1945,
Current Address: Rondweg 21, Aruba

The problem with the name is the Sanchez.

Porros as a last name exist

Sanchez as a Lastname with Jorge as First name but no Porros --NONE

This name must have been made up by someone to protect something.

will check one more datamine.

Responsive to Request 41
+ Name: Jorge Porras Sanches
Date: 21 June 2005 / 14:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Juan Boezem / Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement

Name: Jorge Porras Sanches
Name/Title: Reply on request to return suspects belongings
Date: 20 October 2005
Pa.gcs: 1
Writer/Initiator: J.M.A.M. Ponsioen



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 29, 2008, 12:17:28 PM
Freddy....again....


P179-181

Wednesday June 22, 2005

While being transferred from police station to KIA, Deepak and Satish are secretly recorded in a 40min conversation:


Snipped
D: It is impossible, swa. When you start that car the whole neighborhood
will hear it.
S: Anyway, he seems to know everything better.
D: He knows our rule, we trust him as a friend, like a brother to be close
with (???)
S: Anyway, bad luck.
D: And I also trusted Freddy like a brother.
S: Yes.
D: But he also talked shit, that's why we've been arrested.
S: What did he say?

snipped...

Now when did Freddy talk to ALE that got the Kalpoes arrested?Guess I missed the memo!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 29, 2008, 12:28:07 PM
OOPS!  Another question....Caps, do you remember our discussion about the road that is now paved and has the white pickup?  It's in this thread somewhere, but I doubt I could find it now. LOL  I am sure Mum remembers...well, maybe. LOL
Lala's are You talking about the white pickup in front of Lorenzo's house....I think that the pics are in this thread in the pages between 60 and 75 maybe I don't have time now to look but maybe later....  ::MonkeyConfused::

Yes, Hotping...I am talking about that white pickup truck that seems as mysterious as Lorenzo himself.  Probably no connection, but the discussion was left hanging and I think it needs more investigation. Thanks for looking for me..I really need to get this thread indexed...I have no idea how to do that either.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 29, 2008, 12:45:58 PM
One more question....does Alex Matthews like to deep sea fish?  Anyone know?

Yes he allways charter a boat with his friends when they came to Aruba.
When he started the New Millenium Secuirty Group, He was respected by everyone. but he was hated bay those that allway want to twist the law.

Alex and his crew when they are hired as bouncer for a party, nobody will fool these guys. ID check metal check they had the control of the the situation.

When he presented the proposal to gaurd the hotels and to setup the Visibility team, that was his plans...it did not come from Jeff Lesker, nor from these hotel owners. He left it on jeff Desk as a proposal for his company.

But what made the differance where the color of their skin. The intimidation just becuase of the color of the skin, The descrimination runs deep in the New AHATA run VISIBILITY TEAM.

Just ask yourself, since when is a GM a Law enforceman.

Their job is only to watch the revenue for their properties. Thats all you here allways comming from the Financial controller "The Bottom Line this week is so and so, but we have made Par "

Hotel Lingo.

The CAPS

Interesting that hotel lingo involves golf terms...

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:43 am
The Simian has a handicap of 12.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 29, 2008, 12:47:45 PM
Freddy....again....


P179-181

Wednesday June 22, 2005

While being transferred from police station to KIA, Deepak and Satish are secretly recorded in a 40min conversation:


Snipped
D: It is impossible, swa. When you start that car the whole neighborhood
will hear it.
S: Anyway, he seems to know everything better.
D: He knows our rule, we trust him as a friend, like a brother to be close
with (???)
S: Anyway, bad luck.
D: And I also trusted Freddy like a brother.
S: Yes.
D: But he also talked shit, that's why we've been arrested.
S: What did he say?

snipped...

Now when did Freddy talk to ALE that got the Kalpoes arrested?Guess I missed the memo!

I missed it too...interesting.  I need to check that out more. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 29, 2008, 12:54:10 PM
I hope I have this correct..if not maybe Klaas will edit for me.


Posts made by someone at a different location...I am not saying they are fake..just that they were not made by the poster we know as Simian:

June 27, 2005
Her decapitated body to be found.

Her head to wash up on shore later

June 27, 2005
I have not left. I do not want to be copied however and would like to stay and speak.

June 27, 2005
I leave now. The island is stiring.

June 27, 2005
They have found her. Watch your news stations for this one. I said this was to happen. You can praise The Simian later

June 27, 2005
Ally ellos han encontrado su cuerpo. Mire las noticias para más información en esto

All on June 24th:

As Simian:
BREAKING NEWS: Charges have been made against Joran. MURDER by Drug. Father tried to cover up and will be charged soon.
This is huge

As Simian
Im serious - im down her in aruba right now

As crs
Scratch that, it is the real Simian. He confirmed it.

As Simian
Joran was charged with murder not father.

As Simian
Someone is now posting as me. I did not post that joran raped her or that they buried her. News out on the islands says they dumped her somewhere in the ocean. Will probably be really hard to find the body.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 29, 2008, 12:57:50 PM
Caps
The white truck...do you have any idea about who it was?  I am still on that subject for some reason.  I know you and I have discussed this often concerning the asphalt driveway and the white truck.  You will soon learn that I rarely ask any question that I do not already have some idea what the answer will be.  That is how I do things to either reinforce my ideas or discount completely.  You have to answer with a name...just were you able to recognize the person in the truck? 

BTW, I would like to know more about this Spice Night Club.  I have waited to ask details for a while now...if you would be so kind...I understand it was owned by Matthews and when he went to prison...did it just close or was it sold to someone?  Just curious.

The Spice Night Club:

This club belong to Enrique Trimon jr. His father is the owner of The National Car Rental. The Father bought the property for the son Enrique (Froggy). With money of the father, the son build the club.

Spice was a nice latin / dance club in Noord... The club was doing very well, but the Erique jr. (Nic=Froggy) was havely into cocain use. The club was booming with the Latin community at that time. The bouncers operating the entrance where the Millenium Security Group. When froggy could not run it no more, Alex rented the Club out for a Substantial amount for the rights to use this special permit that allows him to run the club till 5:00 am in the morning.

He and his security group did a wonderfull job in running it, but all the money that Alex paid for the rent of the place, froggy was putting up his nose...he was a full Junky. Froggy continue to visit the club at night and over the weekend. Alex did not like it at all that Froggy was in the club doing coke.

Alex put his wife in charge of the Club and here is where the nightmare for him has begun. The wife wanted him to be home with the two kids but Alex was more in the enterpreneurs mode and was expanding his Idea of a security force in Aruba that can protect against these upcomming problematic youth. he was growing and was controlling the night scene at door entrance. he was the commando at night. noboy dare to challange his group becuase they ment bussiness. Infraction, fights, drugs and you are black listed for 3 month then sis month and life.

His wife was behinde the bar and controlled the income. Alex knows the POS (Point of sale System well) and can read the numbers, (Sales on weekend where in the 15000.00 per night) he was also very aware of the Night club scene cheats and who was stealing. Alex confronted her about the missing money several times but she allways had answers, but Alex has another way to controll the bar...He counted the cases of beer, the bottle etc. He did not trust nobody with the numbers except for some of his close friend that he trusted. Sales was way up but the cash count shows diffrent.

Who was managing the bar?.......She was accousing Alex of not beeing a good father and Alex do not like when some one put him down...He confronted the wife with the money issue and it is here that thing escalate to where he beat the wife. The wife called the polis and he went to jail. The wife wanted to punish Alex for what he did but she did forgot that it was Alex who was the brain behind the secure operation of the club. The club was transform by the wife into a house of Rave with no control or knowledge on how to run the bussiness. (Wife was wasting the money and did not pay the rent).

The club could not be managed any more and the rent was not paid and so froggy took it all back. But he aslo was not in a condition to run the club (The money was not comming in) So he desided to pass the license to Ricky Croes from the Taxi Central. Now Taxi Central became SPICE in TAXI CLUB. Ricky was now feeding the habbits of froggy. The Spice in Taxi did well for some time and now it is also dead.. The Colomiban girlfriend from ricky (not his Wife) was also handling the money and flow the nest with the lood.

In 2006 The Taxi Central owners want that the club be shut down so that Taxi central be a Station for Taxi again and a social club for the Taxi group.

The father of froggy tried to help the boy with his problem, but the boy will not stop using cocain.

Froggy with the help of the Father, bought a new Black Hummer car and the rummors are that froggy is in costa Rica where is father has a house.. Froggy seems to be in a Treatment center in Costa Rica. will check more about this.


Note before Spice moved to Taxi Central location, Taxi was know to be a junky hangout place.....

This is a bit of the spice Club.

This is a small Story about the Spice.

This is a small story about the Spice Night Club


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 29, 2008, 01:04:07 PM
Still looking at the other car....in between going in circles on arambatzis/Arends/Arendz...and of course there appears to be 2...LOL...Bibi Arends....but thought this interesting for July...

I am not sure what ASI Luis is doing in there again, he could be related to Freddy???(per mother's name)

Osman and Freddy on the same day....and Ramos saw a car...need to check which one he saw...silver or gray???Honda or Toyota????

Name: OSMAN FAROUK OSMAN
Date: 20 July 2005
Pages: 4
Writer/Initiator: DENNIS JACOBS/ ERIC SOEMBRS
Description: witness statement by an Automotive Center employee

Name: Freddy Zedan Arrambatzis
Date:20 July 2005
Pages: 4
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs, Eric Soemers
Description: witness statement

Name: Carlos Penata Ramos
Date:22 July 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Kelly/Luigi Croes
Description: witness statement by a gardener

Name: Luis Guillermo Rodriguez
Date:22 July 2005
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs, Zoraida De Cuba
Description: witness statement


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 29, 2008, 01:06:29 PM
<<<quote from Capslock>>>

Yes he did, but I wonder why nobody look at it at that time in 2005. I did not even know it exisited.


Yes this is the answer of the Riddle (part of it) still other part to be solved... but the players knew about this... all alone.

But Simain say to search the MOKO pond and that it the pond that Texas search. but the place of the maze has change.

The cops did try to direct them to Moko while shango was trying yo direct them to Monserat.

This make more logic about the 4:10 AM (around that time) pickup at McDonnald. He was scared and was walking fast face down full of MUD missing the right foot Shoe.


I wonder if he still has foot pain?


Maybe the info was something similar to..."I dumped something in a pond."  Given that Joran lived closer to Moko, that would seem logical.  Maybe someone else indicated that was the case.  I will give Simian and Merian the benefit of the doubt for the time being on this one.  They drained ponds, looked high and low.  I know many want to disclaim Simian as a distraction.  It is possible, yet Simian gave us good clues too, most often without riddles. If Simian is who we think, then he/she was working on what he had at the time.

ALE was trying to ask the questions without really asking...for example...asking if Jaime was given something to hold or keep from Joran...asking Paulus if Joran's legs hurt...asking about cleaning the car...ants permeate that area of Montserat...etc. I know we think ALE was a bunch of bumbling idiots...and I am not ready to give them a pass just yet...but there were questions asked that are now easier to link to things we know. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 29, 2008, 01:16:27 PM
Caps…I am still not sure what the ‘responsive to request 41’ means.   TIA
Responsive to Request 41 + Name: Jorge Porras Sanches ....is this like a subphoena?

IIRC you were coming up empty on Freddy Zedan and even said that the name may have been a smokescreen.

Could you please share what you came up with on Freddy and where he lives.

Again TIA

It is not a subphoena: it is the Respons to Artikel 41 of penal code of Aruba

Titel III.  Uitsluiting en verhoging van strafbaarheid

Artikel 41

1.   Niet strafbaar is hij die een feit begaat, geboden door de noodzakelijke verdediging van eigen of eens anders lijf, eerbaarheid of goed tegen ogenblikkelijke, wederrechtelijke aanranding.

2.   Niet strafbaar is de overschrijding van de grenzen van noodzakelijke verdediging, indien zij het onmiddellijk gevolg is geweest van een hevige gemoedsbeweging, door de aanranding veroorzaakt.




Sorry to harp on this...but it's bothering me .....some of this Caps posted a few days ago and I just found the last one(bolded)

Caps...does it make any more sense now?

Last Name:Porras
First Name:Jorge A   
Date of Birth:12/30/1982
Place of Birth:Caracas, Venezuela
Current Address:Rondweg 21, Aruba

Last name:Porras Rodriguez,
Born: Sanchez
First Name: Josefa O   
Date Of Birth: 1/9/1945,
Current Address: Rondweg 21, Aruba

The problem with the name is the Sanchez.

Porros as a last name exist

Sanchez as a Lastname with Jorge as First name but no Porros --NONE

This name must have been made up by someone to protect something.

will check one more datamine.

Responsive to Request 41
+ Name: Jorge Porras Sanches
Date: 21 June 2005 / 14:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Juan Boezem / Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement

Name: Jorge Porras Sanches
Name/Title: Reply on request to return suspects belongings
Date: 20 October 2005
Pa.gcs: 1
Writer/Initiator: J.M.A.M. Ponsioen




Who is this guy??  What is a request 41???  What did they take from him that he wants returned??? 

Does anyone have any ideas?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 29, 2008, 01:23:06 PM
Lala's....I don't have a clue...I had that site in English last week, but thought it quicker to ask Caps than to go back and find it.

I thought it was the wrong site last week, but it appears from what Caps posted this morning it was the right one!

The one with Article 41....I mean!

Will do another search on him without the Sanches...I remember a h15 or whatever site... sounds like it could fit!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 29, 2008, 01:23:12 PM
The problem with Moko pool is that if they dump the body in there, this acctiion leave Joran walking home. and not to the McDonnald.

Now lets assume that what is said that the head was not part of the body no more, and that both places has been used.

The Moko Pool which is right at the doorstep of the Whitehouse Apartment and there they could have dumb a peace of the body then drive Joran to the Monserat Pool and split leaving Joran alone.

Driving to the Monserat they will dump an other peace of the body.
Split and leave Joran behind.
The Monserat pool will leave him walking to McDonald.

This will give both Simian and Shango Validity for their writtings.

BRB..

CAPS


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 29, 2008, 02:02:00 PM
The problem with Moko pool is that if they dump the body in there, this acctiion leave Joran walking home. and not to the McDonnald.

Now lets assume that what is said that the head was not part of the body no more, and that both places has been used.

The Moko Pool which is right at the doorstep of the Whitehouse Apartment and there they could have dumb a peace of the body then drive Joran to the Monserat Pool and split leaving Joran alone.

Driving to the Monserat they will dump an other peace of the body.
Split and leave Joran behind.
The Monserat pool will leave him walking to McDonald.

This will give both Simian and Shango Validity for their writtings.

BRB..

CAPS

I am right there with you in your thinking. If Joran is indeed on foot..he would have to be able to walk to where he needs to be picked up.  I think Moko was first target because it was so close to Joran's house...which now takes me to the position of did Joran have Natalee at his place?  Knowing how close the apartments are to Joran's and Freddy's homes and knowing that it is within walking distance to Moko leaves you thinking that is a logical place to dump something.  I am following you.

Logic dictates that Joran was NOT walking the entire time...as I have said.  Thus the witness seeing them near the raquet club in a car and the timeline being so close.  There are still missing pieces of this puzzle however that must be reconciled in order to fit precisely into a nice little package. 

Two different views of the same scenario...interpreted by many.  Yes, it's crystal clear again.  :roll: :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on February 29, 2008, 02:04:49 PM
One more question....does Alex Matthews like to deep sea fish?  Anyone know?

Yes he allways charter a boat with his friends when they came to Aruba.
When he started the New Millenium Secuirty Group, He was respected by everyone. but he was hated bay those that allway want to twist the law.

Alex and his crew when they are hired as bouncer for a party, nobody will fool these guys. ID check metal check they had the control of the the situation.

When he presented the proposal to gaurd the hotels and to setup the Visibility team, that was his plans...it did not come from Jeff Lesker, nor from these hotel owners. He left it on jeff Desk as a proposal for his company.

But what made the differance where the color of their skin. The intimidation just becuase of the color of the skin, The descrimination runs deep in the New AHATA run VISIBILITY TEAM.

Just ask yourself, since when is a GM a Law enforceman.

Their job is only to watch the revenue for their properties. Thats all you here allways comming from the Financial controller "The Bottom Line this week is so and so, but we have made Par "

Hotel Lingo.

The CAPS

Interesting that hotel lingo involves golf terms...

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:43 am
The Simian has a handicap of 12.



Shango says Simian is "as the 46th"

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 12:16 pm
We are worried when people say that they won’t come, because wherever I am I always invite people to my island. It is the best advertisement.

I do have to let all of you know that bookings are up (YTD) and it is actually low-season at the moment. Which is what explains the students getting their vacation packages at US$ 1500.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 29, 2008, 02:33:49 PM
Lala's....I don't have a clue...I had that site in English last week, but thought it quicker to ask Caps than to go back and find it.

I thought it was the wrong site last week, but it appears from what Caps posted this morning it was the right one!

The one with Article 41....I mean!

Will do another search on him without the Sanches...I remember a h15 or whatever site... sounds like it could fit!


Art.41

This article deals with the question in how far an offence committed in the Netherlands under the influence of alcohol or other drugs can be imputed to the offender. Unlike many other countries the Dutch Penal Code does not contain specific provisions with respect to the criminal liability of addicted or intoxicated offenders. In principle, they are held responsible for their offences, even when the dolus or culpa is absent at the moment they commit their offence. Doctrine and jurisprudence found this liability on the principle of 'culpa/dolus in causa', by accepting an anterior dolus or culpa, which is situated at the moment the offender takes alcohol or other drugs. As is shown in this article, the - nondogmatic - interpretation of this culpa in causa doctrine leaves hardly any space for a claim to impunity.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 29, 2008, 02:52:31 PM
Lala's....I don't have a clue...I had that site in English last week, but thought it quicker to ask Caps than to go back and find it.

I thought it was the wrong site last week, but it appears from what Caps posted this morning it was the right one!

The one with Article 41....I mean!

Will do another search on him without the Sanches...I remember a h15 or whatever site... sounds like it could fit!


Art.41

This article deals with the question in how far an offence committed in the Netherlands under the influence of alcohol or other drugs can be imputed to the offender. Unlike many other countries the Dutch Penal Code does not contain specific provisions with respect to the criminal liability of addicted or intoxicated offenders. In principle, they are held responsible for their offences, even when the dolus or culpa is absent at the moment they commit their offence. Doctrine and jurisprudence found this liability on the principle of 'culpa/dolus in causa', by accepting an anterior dolus or culpa, which is situated at the moment the offender takes alcohol or other drugs. As is shown in this article, the - nondogmatic - interpretation of this culpa in causa doctrine leaves hardly any space for a claim to impunity.




Thanks Caps...will take another look at it in the morning


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on February 29, 2008, 02:53:46 PM
Good Afternoon, Tangoers!

Two quick thoughts.

Mathews has been and continues to be incarcerated.  He was during this entire time period.  He has been extradited to the U.S. to serve out the balance of his sentence near his wife.  I believe he is in a U.S. prison in the New England region where his wife lives.  Northeast. 

He is kept in a form of solitary confinement about which he is most unhappy.  It was deemed necessary in this country as well for reasons of safety.

Because of this, I wanted Capslock to think whether or not a person in such confinement would have access to a computer.  Hotshots has spoken with his wife and knows much more about it I do believe.

Secondly, aren't Spanish names the given name then the surname or father's last name followed by the mother's last name?  If one of the last names is to be dropped, it is the second one, opposite of what would be done in this country?

Example:  John Smith (father's last name) Jones (mother's lasts name).  If they do not use a last name, it is the Jones that would be deleted for a Spanish name.

I apologize for the interruption but thought this might save some effort on the part of all your research. 

Please just ignore if you find it too disruptive.

.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 29, 2008, 03:08:52 PM
Good Afternoon, Tangoers!

Two quick thoughts.

Mathews has been and continues to be incarcerated.  He was during this entire time period.  He has been extradited to the U.S. to serve out the balance of his sentence near his wife.  I believe he is in a U.S. prison in the New England region where his wife lives.  Northeast. 

He is kept in a form of solitary confinement about which he is most unhappy.  It was deemed necessary in this country as well for reasons of safety.

Because of this, I wanted Capslock to think whether or not a person in such confinement would have access to a computer.  Hotshots has spoken with his wife and knows much more about it I do believe.

Secondly, aren't Spanish names the given name then the surname or father's last name followed by the mother's last name?  If one of the last names is to be dropped, it is the second one, opposite of what would be done in this country?
Example:  John Smith (father's last name) Jones (mother's lasts name).  If they do not use a last name, it is the Jones that would be deleted for a Spanish name.

I apologize for the interruption but thought this might save some effort on the part of all your research. 

Please just ignore if you find it too disruptive.

.



Hi Anna...where have you been?

So if Freddy's Mom's name is Arambatzis-Rodriquez, where would the Arambatzis come from, her prior marriage?

And seems Freddy is Zedan-Arambatzis so the Zedan would come from where?

And if you can help with that, maybe you can remember where the Aaron or Arends came from?...LOL

Personally I think the names were confused to protect the guilty!

Any help would be appreciated Anna...TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: LoRain on February 29, 2008, 03:18:24 PM
In this photo, the only one besides Oduber that I can for sure identy is EDISON BRIES:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/MEP1.jpg)


If I'm not mistaken he was accused of sexual harrassment last year plus some scandal in Curacao or Bonaire having to do with prostitution (I think).

Could the guy behind the guy with the striped tie be one of the rock painters?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 29, 2008, 03:21:39 PM
Good Afternoon, Tangoers!

Two quick thoughts.

Mathews has been and continues to be incarcerated.  He was during this entire time period.  He has been extradited to the U.S. to serve out the balance of his sentence near his wife.  I believe he is in a U.S. prison in the New England region where his wife lives.  Northeast. 

He is kept in a form of solitary confinement about which he is most unhappy.  It was deemed necessary in this country as well for reasons of safety.

Because of this, I wanted Capslock to think whether or not a person in such confinement would have access to a computer.  Hotshots has spoken with his wife and knows much more about it I do believe.

Secondly, aren't Spanish names the given name then the surname or father's last name followed by the mother's last name?  If one of the last names is to be dropped, it is the second one, opposite of what would be done in this country?

Example:  John Smith (father's last name) Jones (mother's lasts name).  If they do not use a last name, it is the Jones that would be deleted for a Spanish name.

I apologize for the interruption but thought this might save some effort on the part of all your research. 

Please just ignore if you find it too disruptive.

.


According to KIA papers he did serve his sentance in Aruba completly. He was not extradited to the USA.

This is from KIA officials that handled him everyday.

about the spanish Names:

Father: First NAME: Mario Luis
Last Name: Rodriquez Sanches

women before married : Carment Maria Sarmieneto Gonzales

women get maried to father new name : Carmen Maria Rodriquez Sarmiennto

women get a child but married to the Father

first Name : Jose Luis
Last name : Rodriquez Sanches.

women get a child but not married to the father

First Name: Jose Luis
Last Name: Rodriquez Sarmiento



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on February 29, 2008, 03:21:48 PM
Mum,

I only know the correct form that is to be used.  My children are Hispanic.  Like you, it seems evident that Freddie likes to scramble his collection of last names.

I would share your conclusion that this is deliberate.  He can have only one legal father at a time.  Or could his last names be scrambled in an attempt to protect his identity for the same reason of the curious use of initials many times in press releases?

In any event, his name should be his father's last name followed by the last name of his mother, her maiden name only.  It is not possible that he doesn't know his own name so the conclusion that this is a deliberate attempt to obscure his identity would seem the most logical one.

In the event a child is illegitimate, the names would reflect that of the mother only, normally.  Her maiden names, meaning that of her father followed by that of her mother's maiden name.  Otherwise, it would not relflect the correct geneology, etc.

I don't know who does it, the individual or those taking the statements but would have to say that this seems to be a systemic problem with the duel names.  Add in the various nicknames and we might as well refer to them as component "X" at times.  Good luck sorting it out.  All I know is how it SHOULD be.

.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 29, 2008, 03:28:19 PM
Good Afternoon, Tangoers!

Two quick thoughts.

Mathews has been and continues to be incarcerated.  He was during this entire time period.  He has been extradited to the U.S. to serve out the balance of his sentence near his wife.  I believe he is in a U.S. prison in the New England region where his wife lives.  Northeast. 

He is kept in a form of solitary confinement about which he is most unhappy.  It was deemed necessary in this country as well for reasons of safety.

Because of this, I wanted Capslock to think whether or not a person in such confinement would have access to a computer.  Hotshots has spoken with his wife and knows much more about it I do believe.

Secondly, aren't Spanish names the given name then the surname or father's last name followed by the mother's last name?  If one of the last names is to be dropped, it is the second one, opposite of what would be done in this country?

Example:  John Smith (father's last name) Jones (mother's lasts name).  If they do not use a last name, it is the Jones that would be deleted for a Spanish name.

I apologize for the interruption but thought this might save some effort on the part of all your research. 

Please just ignore if you find it too disruptive.

.



No interruption at all...thanks I needed that bit of info.  Just what I needed to hear.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on February 29, 2008, 03:33:48 PM
Thanks Anna and Caps....will save that so as I remember in the future.

Ernesto goes by just Arambatzis...

Melody said that Freddy's dad was dying in Venezuela...with a smile...and then Scuba said Melody email me.....hmmmm

Caps....Rodriquez....keeps popping up

Wish I had the Freddy and Sasha connection.

They had plenty of time to confuse and with Tito along for the ride giving MSM wrong names, it's no wonder it's confusing!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on February 29, 2008, 03:36:28 PM
Capslock,

You are correct that he was not extradited.  He is in prison here on new and separate charges.  I couldn't recall the details, just knew he was still in jail.

Here is Post #616 from link below:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2439.msg317518#msg317518

 Re: Natalee Case Discussion #704 12/11 -
« Reply #616 on: December 15, 2007, 02:18:17 AM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Anna on December 14, 2007, 10:46:06 PM
Thanks, Hotshots.

So Matthews is serving time in this country as a sort of exchange with Netherlands.  I wonder how much longer he has to go on his sentence.

And talk about wild stories, very early when I first heard about him and had a few Aruban contacts, one of them told me in an email that the reason he got in a fight with Vocking in the first place was because Vocking was hitting on Matthews wife, implying that if she knew what was good for Alex, she better play along with him.

That's just one of those wild rumors and I have no way of proving it one way or another, just gossip but it might explain his behavior somewhat.

.


No, Matthews is being held because he lied on his visa entry papers. He is now saying he is a political prisoner in the USA and the US is committing a crime against humanity by holding him in jail.

He also claimed that he was being mistreated and tortured by his US jailers. 
 
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 29, 2008, 04:45:19 PM
Thanks Anna and Caps....will save that so as I remember in the future.

Ernesto goes by just Arambatzis...

Melody said that Freddy's dad was dying in Venezuela...with a smile...and then Scuba said Melody email me.....hmmmm

Caps....Rodriquez....keeps popping up

Wish I had the Freddy and Sasha connection.

They had plenty of time to confuse and with Tito along for the ride giving MSM wrong names, it's no wonder it's confusing!

Picture looks like it might have been taken at Moombas

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/JoranFreddySasha.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 29, 2008, 05:35:29 PM
Capslock,

You are correct that he was not extradited.  He is in prison here on new and separate charges.  I couldn't recall the details, just knew he was still in jail.

Here is Post #616 from link below:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2439.msg317518#msg317518

 Re: Natalee Case Discussion #704 12/11 -
« Reply #616 on: December 15, 2007, 02:18:17 AM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Anna on December 14, 2007, 10:46:06 PM
Thanks, Hotshots.

So Matthews is serving time in this country as a sort of exchange with Netherlands.  I wonder how much longer he has to go on his sentence.

And talk about wild stories, very early when I first heard about him and had a few Aruban contacts, one of them told me in an email that the reason he got in a fight with Vocking in the first place was because Vocking was hitting on Matthews wife, implying that if she knew what was good for Alex, she better play along with him.

That's just one of those wild rumors and I have no way of proving it one way or another, just gossip but it might explain his behavior somewhat.

.


No, Matthews is being held because he lied on his visa entry papers. He is now saying he is a political prisoner in the USA and the US is committing a crime against humanity by holding him in jail.

He also claimed that he was being mistreated and tortured by his US jailers. 
 
 

It is interesting to know how things are turning in live.

Ben King did order many Abuse situation on Alex they forget that people will get out of jail one day. and tell the horror put on him.

This time the coins has flipped and now is the Judge and the son that has done something that he can not walk away. This is not a domestic abuse case but a Murder. They will use all the tactical tricks to find a way to save there A$$.

I know know thats why he left these clues like Art. 41 and The 46 court etc.

I wonder how many years he has to serve in the USA.

BTW in USA he might have computer access. it is the norm in europian jails, maybe someone post it for him.






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 29, 2008, 05:37:45 PM
Freddy....again....


P179-181

Wednesday June 22, 2005

While being transferred from police station to KIA, Deepak and Satish are secretly recorded in a 40min conversation:


Snipped
D: It is impossible, swa. When you start that car the whole neighborhood
will hear it.
S: Anyway, he seems to know everything better.
D: He knows our rule, we trust him as a friend, like a brother to be close
with (???)
S: Anyway, bad luck.
D: And I also trusted Freddy like a brother.
S: Yes.
D: But he also talked shit, that's why we've been arrested.
S: What did he say?

snipped...

Now when did Freddy talk to ALE that got the Kalpoes arrested?Guess I missed the memo!

In those transcripts they mention automotive enterprises anybody know what they mean by that?
There is an automotive enterprises NV on aruba.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on February 29, 2008, 05:39:37 PM
Capslock,

I was also thinking along the lines of when was Matthews NOT in jail.  Could it have been during the time of the Shango posts?  Someone more into Shang than I am would have to determine this.  But I don't think he would have computer access in solitary confinement as would defeat the purpose of taking away privileges.

His wife could have posted for him but think she is in RI or CT area, Northeast.  Not Florida.

But it could also be a reason for the postings to have stopped as well.

.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 29, 2008, 05:43:12 PM
interesting article about Matews

ARUBA (EWORLDWIRE) May 27, 2005

Local activists are not only gearing up for the upcoming September elections in Aruba, but one group in particular has stepped up its attacks on the MEP government, accusing the government of being in serious violation of international human rights laws and violating the basic human rights of its own citizenry.

Attorney Roland A. Smith and renowned black activist and survivor of the Aruba prison abuse scandal, Mr. Alex Mathew, have joined forces in opposing the MEP government. Mathew vehemently has maintained his innocence prior to and during his incarceration at the KIA correctional facility from 2001 to 2004. Many pundits argue that it is Mathew who initially indirectly uncovered and exposed the corrupt and atrocious racist practices of the MEP Government when a group of disinterested international activists learned of the abuse perpetrated onto Mathew by government officials and decided to take matters into their own hands with their own investigation. The group also addressed other clear cases of abuse towards black inmates.

&quot;It is time for the global community to know and appreciate the large scale racial abuse that the MEP has, for the most part, always condoned. We will continue to expose the corrupt practices of the MEP and we will not stop. The United Nations will hear our voices and so will the international tourists who are the bread and butter of the Arubian economy,&quot; said Mathew.

Mathew, a native of Aruba served a sentence at the KIA correctional facility in Aruba from 2001 to 2004 after, what may call was the wrongful conviction of an innocent black man. To many, the crime was simply the color of Mathews skin together with his high level of intellect and the fact that he was, at the time, a young entrepreneur who was headed for tremendous success. Mathew's case is currently being heard before the European Court of Human Rights.

Luis A. Maxwell, a businessman from New York who monitored the incarceration and abuse of Mathew, described Mathew's detention &quot;as an international racial injustice, an injustice that Martin Luther King would never have tolerated. Mathew was and is incredibly intelligent, he was on the brink of great success at the time he was wrongfully convicted and incarcerated. I truly believe that if Mathew was Caucasian, we would not even be talking about him.&quot;

Mathew further stated that, in the coming months, &quot;we plan on meeting with the United States Congressional Black Caucus, and we intend to have their support both nationally and internationally. The MEP needs to understand that there are not only other people, but other governments deeply concerned about potential racial and human rights violations in Aruba.&quot;

The Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor, a division of the United States Department of State, recently called the prison system in Aruba &quot;substandard.&quot; Mathew and many others plan on addressing their concerns not only in the upcoming elections in Aruba but also to the United States and the United Nations.

Mathew is also spearheading efforts to enforce air quality standards in Aruba. San Nicolas is home to the oil refinery which has polluted the Aruban environment. &quot;Many people, including small children are suffering from health problems related of the poor air quality which is believed to stem directly from the refinery,&quot; said Mathew.

The population of San Nicolas is predominantly black and Mathew is not afraid to point fingers at the government, accusing it of intentionally assisting in the placement of the refinery in an area made up of mostly low black citizens. Mathew also urges the public to visit the website www.savesannicolas.com for updates.

Mathew concluded by saying, &quot;We will fight tooth and nail to see that every citizen of Aruba, whether black or white, is treated equally and with absolute respect - no matter the color of their skin.&quot


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 29, 2008, 05:47:44 PM
ON NOVEMBER 5, 2005, he was returning from a trip to Holland, and he was pulled aside at Logan Airport in Boston by Customs. He was asked if he had ever been in jail in Aruba. He told them yes. They came back with some paperwork and said there was a discrepancy, and that he was being paroled back into the U.S.

U.S. Customs took his green card and passport, and gave him a notice to report to the customs office in Providence to explain the situation, so he could get back his green card and passport. We went to the CBP [Customs and Border Patrol] office on several occasions, and each time we went, they said they didn’t have the documents. They kept postponing the appointment.

Then we got another letter to go to the immigration office on May 9 to complete “the deferred inspection,” and we thought he was going to get his green card back. They took him in a room and shackled him and arrested him. We never got a chance to explain the situation.

When he was paroled back in the U.S., every time we went to the customs office, we asked if we could bring an attorney, and they told us he was not entitled to an attorney, because of his parole status.

He’s been in jail since May 9,2006. They’ve beat him up, violated his rights, denied him due process and tortured him at each of the prisons immigration has placed him in.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on February 29, 2008, 05:47:46 PM
Caps for you
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/ARU10107201508-big.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 29, 2008, 05:52:06 PM
Capslock,

I was also thinking along the lines of when was Matthews NOT in jail.  Could it have been during the time of the Shango posts?  Someone more into Shang than I am would have to determine this.  But I don't think he would have computer access in solitary confinement as would defeat the purpose of taking away privileges.

His wife could have posted for him but think she is in RI or CT area, Northeast.  Not Florida.

But it could also be a reason for the postings to have stopped as well.

.

Dr.Iannuccilli-Mathew and her husband have been married for 11 years. They have a 16 month old son and have significant ties to their community. They own two businesses in Providence, Rhode Island and employ approximately 18 people. Amongst the significant amount of stress caused to her family by the absence of her husband, are the conditions of his detention in which he is being held, treated and living as a criminal.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on February 29, 2008, 06:06:11 PM
In this photo, the only one besides Oduber that I can for sure identy is EDISON BRIES:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/MEP1.jpg)


If I'm not mistaken he was accused of sexual harrassment last year plus some scandal in Curacao or Bonaire having to do with prostitution (I think).

Could the guy behind the guy with the striped tie be one of the rock painters?

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Video%2027/paaaint222w.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 29, 2008, 06:20:53 PM
i don't know if this has been translated yet but i'll give it a shot

Artikel 41

1.   Niet strafbaar is hij die een feit begaat, geboden door de noodzakelijke verdediging van eigen of eens anders lijf, eerbaarheid of goed tegen ogenblikkelijke, wederrechtelijke aanranding.

2.   Niet strafbaar is de overschrijding van de grenzen van noodzakelijke verdediging, indien zij het onmiddellijk gevolg is geweest van een hevige gemoedsbeweging, door de aanranding veroorzaakt.

Article 41

1. Not accountable is he who commits an act necessary to the defense of his or someone elses body, honour or property against immediate unlawfull assault.

2. Not accountable is the transgression of the boundaries of necessary defense if this is the immediate result of emotional reactions caused by the assault.

I doubt i'd make it as a lawyer but heck i tried LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 29, 2008, 06:47:49 PM
Freddy....again....


P179-181

Wednesday June 22, 2005

While being transferred from police station to KIA, Deepak and Satish are secretly recorded in a 40min conversation:


Snipped
D: It is impossible, swa. When you start that car the whole neighborhood
will hear it.
S: Anyway, he seems to know everything better.
D: He knows our rule, we trust him as a friend, like a brother to be close
with (???)
S: Anyway, bad luck.
D: And I also trusted Freddy like a brother.
S: Yes.
D: But he also talked shit, that's why we've been arrested.
S: What did he say?

snipped...

Now when did Freddy talk to ALE that got the Kalpoes arrested?Guess I missed the memo!

In those transcripts they mention automotive enterprises anybody know what they mean by that?
There is an automotive enterprises NV on aruba.

Well Well,

This where the court have moved to. They are renovating the court house and have moved the Court to the building of Automotive Enterprise N.V .

Automotive Enterprise is ownd by Tio. we call him uncle Tio. He got a 2 year rental contract for the top floor of his building.

I would like to see those transcript.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 29, 2008, 06:56:05 PM
Freddy....again....


P179-181

Wednesday June 22, 2005

While being transferred from police station to KIA, Deepak and Satish are secretly recorded in a 40min conversation:


Snipped
D: It is impossible, swa. When you start that car the whole neighborhood
will hear it.
S: Anyway, he seems to know everything better.
D: He knows our rule, we trust him as a friend, like a brother to be close
with (???)
S: Anyway, bad luck.
D: And I also trusted Freddy like a brother.
S: Yes.
D: But he also talked shit, that's why we've been arrested.
S: What did he say?

snipped...

Now when did Freddy talk to ALE that got the Kalpoes arrested?Guess I missed the memo!

In those transcripts they mention automotive enterprises anybody know what they mean by that?
There is an automotive enterprises NV on aruba.

Well Well,

This where the court have moved to. They are renovating the court house and have moved the Court to the building of Automotive Enterprise N.V .

Automotive Enterprise is ownd by Tio. we call him uncle Tio. He got a 2 year rental contract for the top floor of his building.

I would like to see those transcript.

Deepak:  I want them to find the girl. You are going to tell shit about me that I have buried the girl at fishermans hut
Joran: Who has said about burying? I didn't say anything about burying.
Deepak: That's what you have stated. Stop with that bullshit.
Joran:  I have said nothing about burying.  The only thing what I can think of, is that you know people that it is the people of automotive enterprises.
Satish: Yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah,yeah,yeah, then I had a flat tire, right?   Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah... I picked you up, right.  And then I went back to the beach for her.
Joran:  Who has said that?
Satish:  You said that.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 29, 2008, 07:14:57 PM
Caps
The white truck...do you have any idea about who it was?  I am still on that subject for some reason.  I know you and I have discussed this often concerning the asphalt driveway and the white truck.  You will soon learn that I rarely ask any question that I do not already have some idea what the answer will be.  That is how I do things to either reinforce my ideas or discount completely.  You have to answer with a name...just were you able to recognize the person in the truck? 

BTW, I would like to know more about this Spice Night Club.  I have waited to ask details for a while now...if you would be so kind...I understand it was owned by Matthews and when he went to prison...did it just close or was it sold to someone?  Just curious.

The Spice Night Club:

This club belong to Enrique Trimon jr. His father is the owner of The National Car Rental. The Father bought the property for the son Enrique (Froggy). With money of the father, the son build the club.

Spice was a nice latin / dance club in Noord... The club was doing very well, but the Erique jr. (Nic=Froggy) was havely into cocain use. The club was booming with the Latin community at that time. The bouncers operating the entrance where the Millenium Security Group. When froggy could not run it no more, Alex rented the Club out for a Substantial amount for the rights to use this special permit that allows him to run the club till 5:00 am in the morning.

He and his security group did a wonderfull job in running it, but all the money that Alex paid for the rent of the place, froggy was putting up his nose...he was a full Junky. Froggy continue to visit the club at night and over the weekend. Alex did not like it at all that Froggy was in the club doing coke.

Alex put his wife in charge of the Club and here is where the nightmare for him has begun. The wife wanted him to be home with the two kids but Alex was more in the enterpreneurs mode and was expanding his Idea of a security force in Aruba that can protect against these upcomming problematic youth. he was growing and was controlling the night scene at door entrance. he was the commando at night. noboy dare to challange his group becuase they ment bussiness. Infraction, fights, drugs and you are black listed for 3 month then sis month and life.

His wife was behinde the bar and controlled the income. Alex knows the POS (Point of sale System well) and can read the numbers, (Sales on weekend where in the 15000.00 per night) he was also very aware of the Night club scene cheats and who was stealing. Alex confronted her about the missing money several times but she allways had answers, but Alex has another way to controll the bar...He counted the cases of beer, the bottle etc. He did not trust nobody with the numbers except for some of his close friend that he trusted. Sales was way up but the cash count shows diffrent.

Who was managing the bar?.......She was accousing Alex of not beeing a good father and Alex do not like when some one put him down...He confronted the wife with the money issue and it is here that thing escalate to where he beat the wife. The wife called the polis and he went to jail. The wife wanted to punish Alex for what he did but she did forgot that it was Alex who was the brain behind the secure operation of the club. The club was transform by the wife into a house of Rave with no control or knowledge on how to run the bussiness. (Wife was wasting the money and did not pay the rent).

The club could not be managed any more and the rent was not paid and so froggy took it all back. But he aslo was not in a condition to run the club (The money was not comming in) So he desided to pass the license to Ricky Croes from the Taxi Central. Now Taxi Central became SPICE in TAXI CLUB. Ricky was now feeding the habbits of froggy. The Spice in Taxi did well for some time and now it is also dead.. The Colomiban girlfriend from ricky (not his Wife) was also handling the money and flow the nest with the lood.

In 2006 The Taxi Central owners want that the club be shut down so that Taxi central be a Station for Taxi again and a social club for the Taxi group.

The father of froggy tried to help the boy with his problem, but the boy will not stop using cocain.

Froggy with the help of the Father, bought a new Black Hummer car and the rummors are that froggy is in costa Rica where is father has a house.. Froggy seems to be in a Treatment center in Costa Rica. will check more about this.


Note before Spice moved to Taxi Central location, Taxi was know to be a junky hangout place.....

This is a bit of the spice Club.

This is a small Story about the Spice.

This is a small story about the Spice Night Club

Who is Ricky Croes?  Related to any Croes we know?  Why is it called Taxi Central? Do you mean as in a real taxi such as a car?  Lost on that one.  So it was Mathews wife that ran the Rave house?  Can you explain to me the difference between a rave house and a regular night club?  You also said Latin dance club?  Would that allow some of the local bands to play there also or did they use DJ's instead? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 29, 2008, 07:24:54 PM
The story that joran told Patrick about him walking home buggs me.
Since they had access to cars and everything why would he walk home?
Could it be that he had to because someone took his place a car after something happened?
In other words something went wrong people were called and he was told to leave?


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating
afraid to walk through the maze
why don’t the arawaks ambush the lions?
The cowboys don’t know.
DirtyHand knows, but is afraid of the Arawak Nation
The gods are talking


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on February 29, 2008, 07:31:47 PM
Freddy....again....


P179-181

Wednesday June 22, 2005

While being transferred from police station to KIA, Deepak and Satish are secretly recorded in a 40min conversation:


Snipped
D: It is impossible, swa. When you start that car the whole neighborhood
will hear it.
S: Anyway, he seems to know everything better.
D: He knows our rule, we trust him as a friend, like a brother to be close
with (???)
S: Anyway, bad luck.
D: And I also trusted Freddy like a brother.
S: Yes.
D: But he also talked shit, that's why we've been arrested.
S: What did he say?

snipped...

Now when did Freddy talk to ALE that got the Kalpoes arrested?Guess I missed the memo!

In those transcripts they mention automotive enterprises anybody know what they mean by that?
There is an automotive enterprises NV on aruba.

Well Well,

This where the court have moved to. They are renovating the court house and have moved the Court to the building of Automotive Enterprise N.V .

Automotive Enterprise is ownd by Tio. we call him uncle Tio. He got a 2 year rental contract for the top floor of his building.

I would like to see those transcript.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PROCES - VERBAAL

We, Dennis Dominico JACOBS and Eric Louis SOEMERS, head agent and inspector for the Korps Politie Aruba, former classified at the team of particular projects and last mentioned at the section criminal organizations classified, explain the following:

On Saturday, August 6, 2005, around 16:50, we interrogated the witness, OSMAN Farouk OSMAN, born on Curacao on 01 October 1974, of profession director (Automotive Enterprises) and living Sabana Blanco xxxxxxxxx Aruba.

Statements are taken in papiamento and by me, JACOBS, in Dutch it was translated, on record were put and sound as follows:

"On your question if it is normal that the man" Deepak KALPOE leaves his car at my garage, I answer you the following:

Because I had worked in the past on the car of Deepak, he approached me to keep z/n its car for him in my garage in the "Automotive Enterprises established" at Wayaca for him. I must note that I in the past the car of Deepak had twice left his car in my garage when I worked on it. With the car of Deepak I mean the grey four door private car of the make "Honda Civic".

On your question if Deepak had told me how he knew that the missing American little girl Natalee Ann HOLLOWAY on Monday, 30 May 2005, in the night time hours, had only her identification document (drivers license) and an amount of US $50, =, in her possession, I answer you the following:

At absolutely no moment did Deepak tell me how he knew that missing little girl only had her identity card and US $50, =, in her possession. You must ask it to Deepak.

On your question if the brothers of "Deepak Sharma KALPOE" and "Satish Sharma KALPOE" have a girlfriend and also if I have seen them ever with a girlfriend, I answer you the following:

I have never seen Deepak and Satish with a girlfriend. You must ask them if they have a girlfriend.

If you have more questions, I will be prepared to answer them.

O.F. OSMAN,

After the witness O.F. OSMAN gave his statement, declared he had read and thereby signed it.

Of what our statement, on oath of office made up this warrant, and has been signed at Oranjestad on August 6, 2005 has been closed.

Signed,


D.D. JACOBS E.L. SOEMERS


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 29, 2008, 07:40:20 PM
There seem to be two

STERN AUTOMOTIVE ENTERPRISES N.V.
Sabana Blanco 35
DAKOTA
Tel: (297) 5823838
Fax: (297) 5833408

Automotive Enterprises N.V.
Address: Wayaca z/n
Phone: (297) 582-6594 / (297) 583-2544 / (297) 582-4378
Fax: (297) 583-4499    
Categories: Automobile parts -new-


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on February 29, 2008, 07:53:13 PM
was there a story about a star i can't remember but ithink i read it somewhere
STERN automotive enterprises = (german) STAR   automotive enterprises
hope i m not adding to the confusion here.
going out on a limb again, but according to Albert Schweizer that's where the fruit is.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 29, 2008, 08:22:17 PM
JE
Am I to understand that Alex Mathews was NOT in jail anytime during the Shango writings? I need clarification on this, please and thanks.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on February 29, 2008, 08:23:31 PM
Mum

*******
Global Moderator


Posts: 4997
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08
« Reply #965 on: Today at 06:47:40 PM »
   


Mr. Jorge Sanchez (PTR Certified Pro)
Aruba Racquet Club

With a degree in Business Administration, Jorge decided to follow his father steps. He has been teaching tennis for the    passed 8 years and has been traveling around the world to attend the best Tennis Conferences. As the National Coach of    Aruba in 2004, his team earned the title # 1 in the Caribbean . His expertise in the modern Tennis game will help you to    reach a much higher level!.

 In the year 2002, father and son joined together to create "Sanchez Tennis Services". This school focuses on
   developing players of all ages and games of all levels and also organizes Tennis Events. Sanchez Tennis Services is well    known for developing top Junior Players of Aruba, who are able to compete at an International Level.

   Aruba Racquet Club

   Tel: 5860215

   Pro's phone:

   Mr. Leonel Sanchez : 5936693

   Mr. Jorge Sanchez : 5936263

   E-mail:

   Sancheztennis@setarnet.aw


http://www.arc.aw/tennis/tennisschool.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on February 29, 2008, 09:15:54 PM
There seem to be two

STERN AUTOMOTIVE ENTERPRISES N.V.
Sabana Blanco 35
DAKOTA
Tel: (297) 5823838
Fax: (297) 5833408

Automotive Enterprises N.V.
Address: Wayaca z/n
Phone: (297) 582-6594 / (297) 583-2544 / (297) 582-4378
Fax: (297) 583-4499    
Categories: Automobile parts -new-

Nope, this is the correct one:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/osman.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 29, 2008, 11:05:02 PM
There seem to be two

STERN AUTOMOTIVE ENTERPRISES N.V.
Sabana Blanco 35
DAKOTA
Tel: (297) 5823838
Fax: (297) 5833408

Automotive Enterprises N.V.
Address: Wayaca z/n
Phone: (297) 582-6594 / (297) 583-2544 / (297) 582-4378
Fax: (297) 583-4499    
Categories: Automobile parts -new-

Nope, this is the correct one:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/osman.jpg)

Klassend: LALA:

I see it already. Tio is the older, The Father, He is a Gentleman of a person. He allways said that the government own him so much on tires that he is going to stop their contract. Tio is straigt to the point business man. The police depart get their tire form him. Since he make a lot of money, The government want to tax him a lot of money but the government also own him a lot..there was allway a war between them for payment. When a department of the government need to move to a temporary place, he was allway there to help eventhough they had a sober business realtion.
 
But the son or the brother, I do not know. And why would he park the car in the carage..Only for Tire Change and Tune-up. Tio does not allow nobody to leave the car if it is not for service.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 29, 2008, 11:09:05 PM
The stern Authomotive is own by these Dutch group.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on February 29, 2008, 11:13:21 PM
I do think that Joran lied here about his associates with the owners of The Automotive Enterprise.

must be either Garage Central owners or Stern Automotive.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on February 29, 2008, 11:52:07 PM
ALSO..One of their workers was found dead pad locked in a container from the outside.
His Name was Wayne Bension (sp) Aruba said it was his heart.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on March 01, 2008, 12:42:23 AM
Blonde,

Me thinks it was a refrigerator.

Ah...ahhh...busht!

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on March 01, 2008, 12:50:59 AM
Dr. A. Mathew Announces Boycott Of Aruba

Proposed boycott due to Human Rights Violations

For Immediate Release
PROVIDENCE, R.I./EWORLDWIRE/Jan. 29, 2004 --- The momentum is building and the numbers are increasing as a boycott on the popular island tourist destination, Aruba, is getting underway.

Dr. A. Mathew, the wife of Eduardo Mathew, a man whom many deem is being held in prison with no justifiable or legal grounds, is now spearheading an effort to boycott Aruba in hopes of cutting off Aruba's main industry, tourism. It is alleged that the current government of Aruba has been implicated in several accounts of barbaric and torturous treatment carried out on black people. As educated Americans, we just simply cannot accept this type of behavior.

Yesterday afternoon a large crowd gathered in Providence, Rhode Island to garner support for a national and international human rights movement, which begins with the case of Eduardo Mathew. The sponsor of the rally was Freedom Partner's Alliance, and multimillionaire Jatin G. Kinney of Kinney Enterprises. Mr. Kinney himself, the notorious large-scale Internet marketing wizard, was on hand to kick off the rally. The rally consisted of business leaders and commoners alike within the community and the community is undoubtedly increasing in size nationally and internationally each day.

Dr. Mathew opened the rally with a "Call For Unity" for all Americans who travel to Aruba and to other nations, which accept American tax dollars but do not abide by basic and commonsense human rights laws. Dr. Mathew stated that, "The American people and the American economy fuel the global market. Each person, whether American or foreign deserves fair and humane treatment within their own countries, whether they are among the law abiding or the minority of the punished few who often find themselves slaves to their own country's judicial and prison systems."

Attorney for Freedom Partner's Alliance, J. Paul Nadeau commented that, "If a foreign nation receives any monetary aid from the United States, they need to start playing by the same human rights rules that us Americans play by, even small Caribbean Nations."

Nadeau later asserted that, "It appears that Eduardo Mathew is more or less a political prisoner and is being punished not for breaking the law, but he is being punished for being Eduardo Mathew, a black man."

Kinney himself took a personal interest in Mr. Mathew's case when contacted by a colleague who traveled to Aruba in June and had read local newspapers and learned from natives of Mr. Mathew's wrongful incarceration, which is believed to be nothing more than politically and racially motivated. During that time, the local newspapers had also incorrectly reported that Mr. Mathew had started a fire at the KIA Correctional Facility where he is currently incarcerated. Kinney also learned that Mr. Mathew has been confined to a cell 24 hours a day for over 2 years, he has been beaten and denied the necessary medical treatment for a back injury which was sustained in one of the beatings. Kinney is outraged that the Arubian government and the Dutch judges appear to be treating Mr. Mathew like a "caged animal" because of his skin color.

Also in attendance at the rally was former Vice President of LOGO, Rowan Walters, who praised Dr. Mathew in her efforts and hailed her as "a kind woman who will stop at nothing to see that human rights violations and discrimination end and a woman who will stop at nothing to make herself heard". Friends and colleagues alike agree that Dr. Mathew has started a grass roots campaign for her husband's cause and has now gained enough support and contributions to fund an internet website and plans are in the works to launch television and radio commercials by the beginning of this year.

Although Aruba has always been a second home to her, Dr. Mathew made it clear by saying, "That that government of Aruba left her no choice but to launch a boycott which will undoubtedly affect the Arubian economy but put a stop to racism perpetrated by judges and government officials."[ Dr. Mathew first got the idea of a boycott to make her point heard when she learned of a boycott that was planned for the Bahamas in 1999. Apparently, Jatin G. Kinney orchestrated that boycott when American property owners allegedly had their land illegally confiscated by the Bahamian Government; however, Kinney himself soon called off that boycott at the last minute when the dispute was settled.

According to internal records provided by Kinney Enterprises to the Freedom Partner's Alliance, nearly 3.5 million Americans had signed on to boycott the Bahamas in 1999 and there was a point in time when the movement was growing by roughly 40,000 each day through the Internet and direct mailings.

Now the attention has turned to Aruba and Freedom Partner's Alliance seems determined as ever. Attorney Nadeau further stated that, "In Mr. Mathew's case, it appears to be well documented that Arubian Government Officials and the Dutch judges have violated Mr. Mathews rights and have gone against doctors recommendations. He has even been placed in solitary confinement well beyond what is considered humane by any measure and that is also evidenced by Amnesty International and the Committee for Prevention of Torture of Prisoner's current interest and involvement with this case."

Nadeau also added that he and a team of well known international attorney's are preparing for a large scale international civil lawsuit against Aruba and the Netherlands and will be seeking an award of upwards to several hundred million dollars.

Mr. Mathew was scheduled to be released on January 27, 2004; however, his release has been denied without cause.

The Minister of Justice, Mr. Rudy Croes and the director of the prison, Mr. F Maduro prolonged Mr. Mathew's detention under the same inhumane and barbaric circumstances that he has been in for the past 2 years despite repeated pleas for help and resolution by Mr. Mathew, his family and human rights organizations around the word including Amnesty International. His mental and physical condition is deteriorating daily. This is a flagrant abuse of power and violation of international human rights standards.

Freedom Partner's Alliance is now soliciting subscribers to participate in their planned boycott of Aruba which is scheduled for "sometime" in February 2004 in the event the Arubian Government does not take drastic steps to participate in the global human rights movement. Attorney Nadeau also hinted that they will be monitoring Mr. Matthew's situation closely and that may determine the launch date of their planned boycott.

Mr. Mathew has appealed his case and is currently awaiting the trial in the Supreme Court in the Netherlands and he is being represented by one of the best Attorneys in Europe Mr. A. Moszkowicz. Mr. Mathew also has a case against the Netherlands and Aruba in the European court of human rights and is being represented by Ms. J. Serrarens

Anyone interested in taking part in the boycott or to join the Freedom Partner's Alliance mailing list, go to www.boycottaruba.com.

   HTML: http://www.eworldwire.com/pressreleases/2113
   MOBILE: http://e4mobile.com/view_release.php?id=2113
   PDF: http://www.eworldwire.com/pdf/2113.pdf
   ONLINE NEWSROOM: http://www.eworldwire.com/newsroom/2146.htm
   NEWSROOM RSS FEED: http://newsroom.eworldwire.com/xml/newsrooms/2146.xml
   LOGO: http://www.eworldwire.com/newsroom/2146.htm

CONTACT:
Arianna Mathew
Dr. A. Mathew
Providence, RI 02903
PHONE. 401-884-0413
http://www.boycottaruba.com

KEYWORDS: aruba, boycott, civil rights, human rights, injustice
SOURCE: Dr. A. Mathew

http://www.eworldwire.com/pressreleases/2113


Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on March 01, 2008, 01:13:06 AM
498
29.9.2005
 
Press release issued by the Registrar
 
CHAMBER JUDGMENT MATHEW v. THE NETHERLANDS
 
The European Court of Human Rights has today notified in writing a judgment[1] in the case of Mathew v. the Netherlands (application no. 24919/03).
 
The Court held, unanimously, that there had been a violation of Article 3 (prohibition of inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment) of the European Convention on Human Rights, in that:
·        the applicant was detained in solitary confinement for an excessive and unnecessarily protracted period;
·        he was detained for at least seven months in a cell which failed to provide adequate protection against the weather and the climate; and,
·        he had had to endure unnecessary and avoidable physical suffering in order to gain access to outdoor exercise and fresh air.
 
Under Article 41 (just satisfaction) of the Convention, the Court awarded the applicant 10,000 euros (EUR) for non-pecuniary damage and EUR 3,000 for costs and expenses. (The judgment is available only in English.)
 
1.  Principal facts
 
The applicant, Eduardo Mathew, is a Netherlands national who was born in 1973. He is a kickboxing instructor by profession. As far as the Court is aware, he is currently living in Providence, Rhode Island, USA. The events in question took place on the Caribbean island of Aruba (off the coast of Venezuela), which is part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands.
 
On 9 October 2001 the applicant was arrested on Aruba on a charge of inflicting grievous bodily harm. From October 2001 until the end of April 2004 he was detained on remand in the Aruba Correctional Institution (Korrektie Inrichting Aruba), (KIA). During most of that time, he was in solitary confinement.
 
On 29 November 2001 an incident took place in which the acting KIA governor was very seriously injured (broken eye socket, cheekbone and skull) and for which the applicant was subsequently convicted of inflicting serious bodily harm.
 
Following the incident, the applicant was placed in solitary confinement for 35 days. Thereafter, on 4 January 2002, a special detention regime was imposed on him, aimed at keeping him away from the other prisoners. He was not allowed to leave his cell without handcuffs around his wrists and fetters around his ankles (the use of fetters was discontinued after a certain time). Contact with the outside world was also limited. On two other occasions after the applicant had, among other things, assaulted prison staff, he was also denied visits or use of the telephone for 28 days.
 
From the time when the applicant was first detained there until some time between August and October 2002, there was a large opening in the roof of the applicant’s cell through which the rain penetrated. The cell was located on the second and top floor of the KIA prison building and exposed its occupant to the heat of the sun. Iced water was provided; there was, however, no air conditioner or other cooling system. There were no lifts.
 
As from June 2002 the applicant was found to be suffering from a serious spinal condition. Aruba’s only neurosurgeon found that the applicant had a Lumbar Discal Hernia and considered surgery to be appropriate. He asked for the applicant to be examined by another neurosurgeon for a second opinion, which did not happen. The applicant was provided with a wheelchair on 14 August 2002, but permission to use it was withdrawn following an incident on 13 February 2003, when he ripped a piece of metal off his wheelchair and used it as a weapon against prison staff.
 
On 19 February 2003 the applicant began court proceedings requesting more comfortable detention conditions. Among other things, he complained that his cell was unsanitary and that he was made to walk down two flights of stairs to meet visitors, take outside exercise or go to hospital, and that he was denied physiotherapy and a wheelchair. A local court ordered the prison to review the need for continuing the special regime at regular intervals.
 
On 14 April 2003 the applicant was found guilty as charged on appeal by the Joint Court of Justice for the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba, which stated that it had imposed a considerably lower sentence (three years and six months instead of five years) than would normally be justified by the applicant’s crimes, in view of the unusual severity of the regime imposed on him while on remand.
 
The applicant received physiotherapy in hospital from 23 May until 13 June 2003. It was intended he should continue to receive physiotherapy as an outpatient. However, his physiotherapy sessions were discontinued. The applicant maintained that his physical condition prevented him from walking from his cell to the vehicle which was to take him to hospital and from sitting up straight in the vehicle.
 
The applicant would normally have been eligible for early release on 27 January 2004. This, however, was refused him on grounds related to his behaviour in prison.
 
A physiotherapist who examined the applicant on 6 March 2004 described him as able, despite going nine months without treatment, to walk a distance of at least 90 meters and carry out complex physical actions such as twisting his body and walking stairs.
 
The applicant was released by order of the Minister of Justice of Aruba on 30 April 2004 (by which time his application before the European Court of Human Rights had been communicated to the Netherlands Government).
 
2.  Procedure and composition of the Court
 
The application was lodged with the European Commission of Human Rights on 5 August 2003.
 
Judgment was given by a Chamber of seven judges, composed as follows:
 
Boštjan M. Zupančič (Slovenian), President,
John Hedigan (Irish),
Corneliu Bîrsan (Romanian),
Margarita Tsatsa-Nikolovska (Macedonian),
Vladimiro Zagrebelsky (Italian),
Egbert Myjer (Netherlands),
David Thór Björgvinsson (Icelandic), judges,

and also Vincent Berger, Section Registrar.
 
 
3.  Summary of the judgment[2]
 
Complaints
The applicant complained that: he had been physically abused by prison staff and injured by the use of fetters on his feet; that he had been denied necessary medical assistance, a wheelchair and physiotherapy; he also complained about the length and conditions of his detention in solitary confinement and the location of and conditions inside his cell. He relied on Article 3 of the Convention.
 
Decision of the Court
 
Article 3
 
Admissibility
The Court observed that the Joint Court of Justice judgment of 14 April 2003 imposed a considerably lower sentence than would normally be justified by the applicant’s crimes, to compensate for the unusual severity of the prison regime imposed on him. That, in the Government’s submission, meant that the applicant could no longer claim the status of “victim” of an alleged violation of the Convention.
 
The Court accepted that the reduction was considerable. However, the Joint Court of Justice had stopped short of finding those conditions unacceptable in terms equivalent to those employed by Article 3 of the Convention. It could not therefore be said that the court had acknowledged either expressly or in substance that the applicant was a victim of a violation of Article 3. The Court therefore held, unanimously, that the applicant’s complaint under Article 3 was admissible.
 
 
 
 
Merits
 
The Court’s establishment of the facts
The facts and the evidence in the case were disputed.
 
Certain photographs showing the applicant, which were superficially suggestive of external violence committed against him (and which had previously been published in the Aruban press and on an Internet site), were denounced by the Government as fabrications. The Court found, after examining them closely, that they did not support the applicant’s allegations of deliberate maltreatment.
 
Since his release from the KIA on 30 April 2004, the Court noted that the applicant had been treated for his back condition in the United States. It had not, however, been brought to the Court’s attention that he had undergone surgery. Nor did surgery appear to have been prescribed for him at any time after his release.
 
The Court accepted, however, that since June 2002, if not earlier, the applicant had suffered from a serious spinal condition which probably made walking and other physical activity painful and difficult for him. Nonetheless, the Court could not find it established that the applicant was incapacitated to the point of immobility. Nor was the information available sufficient for the Court to conclude that the applicant’s condition was caused or worsened by external violence.
 
As far as the Court was aware, no psychiatric or psychological examination of the applicant was undertaken. The Court nonetheless considered the applicant’s mental state to be relevant to the merits of his case and therefore found it necessary to draw its own inferences. The applicant’s behaviour in detention had been characterised by his continued inability to adapt to the exigencies of prison life and his lack of response to normal prison discipline. It was apparent that he had, while detained, been suffering from a disturbance, the precise nature of which the Court could not determine, which resulted in an increased propensity to recalcitrant and even violent behaviour.
 
Use of physical force
The Court could not find that the force used against the applicant in preventing or terminating violent episodes had gone beyond what was strictly necessary in the circumstances. Neither had the applicant satisfied the Court that the wounds on his ankles were the inevitable consequence of the use of fetters. The Court further accepted that the use of fetters was eventually discontinued in view of those injuries. The Court therefore found no violation of Article 3 as regards the use of physical force against the applicant and the injuries allegedly resulting from the use of fetters.
 
In establishing disputed facts the Court disregarded the applicant’s criminal conviction of inflicting serious bodily harm. The fairness of the proceedings leading up to that conviction is the object of another application before the European Court of Human Rights, that is still pending.
 
Medical Care
The Court observed that Article 3 could not be interpreted as requiring a prisoner’s every wish and preference regarding medical treatment to be accommodated. The practical demands of legitimate detention might impose restrictions which a prisoner would have to accept. Examination by a medical expert who had no links to the detaining authority was nonetheless an important safeguard against the physical or mental abuse of prisoners. The Court therefore considered that a prisoner’s choice of physician should as a rule be respected, subject if need be to the condition that responsibility for any additional expense not justified by genuine medical reasons be accepted by the prisoner. Even so, there was no objection to requiring a medical practitioner to hold a valid license to practice – issued or recognised by the competent domestic authority as a condition for being granted access to a prisoner – provided always that such a requirement did not result in a denial of timely and adequate medical examination, treatment and advice.
 
Concerning the alleged denial of necessary medical assistance in the applicant’s case, the Court did not find the absence of a second medical opinion regarding the need for surgery to be the fault of the Netherlands authorities, as much of the information available suggested that the applicant was apt to set preconditions for accepting medical treatment.
 
Concerning the applicant’s wheelchair, the Court found that, on the evidence available, in the hands of the applicant a wheelchair was perceived on reasonable grounds as a threat to the safety of others. In those circumstances the Court held that the domestic authorities were entitled to consider it necessary, in the conditions existing at that time, to deny him the continued use of one.
 
The Court did not accept that the applicant was unable to go to hospital as an outpatient for physiotherapy and that he needed to be visited in prison. The Court accepted that transport to hospital caused the applicant discomfort at such a level that he might well have preferred to be visited by a physiotherapist in prison. It could not, however, find it established that the applicant’s condition had dictated the latter course. The applicant was apparently capable of extreme physical resistance (ripping off a piece of metal from his wheelchair and using it as a weapon for example). Also, on 6 March 2004, a physiotherapist described the applicant as able, despite going nine months without treatment, to walk a distance of at least 90 meters and carry out complex physical actions such as twisting his body and walking stairs.
 
There was therefore no violation of Article 3 concerning a denial of necessary medical care.
 
Detention conditions
The detention regime imposed on the applicant on 4 January 2002 required him to spend the remainder of his detention in a situation amounting to solitary confinement, which involved far greater hardship than ordinary detention on remand.
 
It was apparent that the applicant was stubbornly uncooperative and much inclined to acts of violence against property and individuals. On the information available, the Court accepted that the KIA authorities found him impossible to control except in conditions of strict confinement.
 
The Court agreed with the Council of Europe’s Committee for the Prevention of Torture that even for difficult and dangerous prisoners, periods of solitary confinement should be as short as possible. It had found in the past that complete sensory isolation coupled with total social isolation could destroy the personality and constituted a form of inhuman treatment which could not be justified by the requirements of security or any other reason. However, the prohibition of contact with other prisoners for security, disciplinary or protective reasons did not in itself amount to inhuman treatment or punishment
 
The applicant was subjected to the punishment regime in question because he could not adapt to an ordinary prison setting. Attempts by the authorities to remove its harmful effects were not effective.
 
Plainly the Aruban authorities were aware that the applicant was not a person fit to be detained in the KIA in normal conditions and that the special regime designed for him was causing him unusual distress. Admittedly, attempts were made, most conspicuously by the Joint Court of Justice, to alleviate the applicant’s situation to some extent, but the Court considered that the Netherlands Government could and should have done more.
 
The Court accepted that accommodation suitable for prisoners of the applicant’s unfortunate disposition did not exist on Aruba at the relevant time (it is only now being built). However, it was not Aruba but the Kingdom of the Netherlands which was responsible under the Convention for ensuring compliance with its standards. Judicial orders given in one of the three countries of the Kingdom – the Realm in Europe, the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba – could be executed throughout the Kingdom. The Court was concerned to find that, despite a request to that effect from the applicant, no attempt appeared to have been made to find an appropriate place of detention for the applicant elsewhere in the Kingdom.
 
The Court accordingly found that the applicant was subjected to distress and hardship of an intensity considerably exceeding the unavoidable level of suffering inherent in detention and amounting to “inhuman treatment”.
 
The applicant’s cell
The Court could not find it established that the applicant was unable throughout the entire period of his detention, which lasted two-and-a-half years, to do any cleaning of his cell himself. It noted in addition that the applicant did not deny that another prisoner was in fact appointed, at the prison’s expense, to clean the committal cell periodically. In those circumstances the Court did not find the Netherlands to be responsible for the lack of cleanliness of the applicant’s cell.
 
Referring to the opening in the roof of the cell through which the rain penetrated and the fact that the cell exposed its occupant to the heat of the sun, however, the Court found that it was unacceptable for anyone to be detained in conditions involving a lack of adequate protection against the weather and the climate.
 
On the evidence available, the Court found it established that it was painful for the applicant to negotiate the two flights of stairs in order to go to the exercise area for outdoor exercise and fresh air. It was understandable in those circumstances that the applicant preferred many times to forgo outdoor exercise rather than suffer the pain. Some arrangement should have been made whereby that could have been avoided. It had to be accepted that accommodation suitable for the applicant situated on the same level as the exercise area or accessible by a lift did not exist in the KIA at the relevant time. However, in the Court’s opinion, the competent authorities ought to have considered the possibility of detaining the applicant in a place more appropriate to his physical condition, in one of the other two countries of the Kingdom if need be.
 
The Court could not find it established that there was a positive intention of humiliating or debasing the applicant. However, the Court considered that the conditions of detention which the applicant had had to endure must have caused him both mental and physical suffering, diminishing his human dignity and amounting to “inhuman treatment”.
 
Conclusion
The Court therefore held, unanimously, that there had been a violation of Article 3 in that the applicant was kept in solitary confinement for an excessive and unnecessarily protracted period, that he was kept for at least seven months in a cell that failed to offer adequate protection against the weather and the climate, and that he was kept in a location from which he could only gain access to outdoor exercise and fresh air at the expense of unnecessary and avoidable physical suffering. There had, on the other hand, been no violation concerning the applicant’s complaint that he had been deliberately maltreated, denied medical treatment or detained in unsanitary conditions.
 
***
 
The Court’s judgments are accessible on its Internet site (http://www.echr.coe.int).
 
Registry of the European Court of Human Rights
F – 67075 Strasbourg Cedex
Press contacts:   Roderick Liddell (telephone: +00 33 (0)3 88 41 24 92)
                            Emma Hellyer (telephone: +00 33 (0)3 90 21 42 15)
                            Stéphanie Klein (telephone: +00 33 (0)3 88 41 21 54)
                            Beverley Jacobs (telephone: +00 33 (0)3 90 21 54 21)
Fax: +00 33 (0)3 88 41 27 91
 
The European Court of Human Rights was set up in Strasbourg by the Council of Europe Member States in 1959 to deal with alleged violations of the 1950 European Convention on Human Rights. Since 1 November 1998 it has sat as a full-time Court composed of an equal number of judges to that of the States party to the Convention. The Court examines the admissibility and merits of applications submitted to it. It sits in Chambers of 7 judges or, in exceptional cases, as a Grand Chamber of 17 judges. The Committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe supervises the execution of the Court’s judgments.
 

[1] Under Article 43 of the European Convention on Human Rights, within three months from the date of a Chamber judgment, any party to the case may, in exceptional cases, request that the case be referred to the 17‑member Grand Chamber of the Court. In that event, a panel of five judges considers whether the case raises a serious question affecting the interpretation or application of the Convention or its protocols, or a serious issue of general importance, in which case the Grand Chamber will deliver a final judgment. If no such question or issue arises, the panel will reject the request, at which point the judgment becomes final. Otherwise Chamber judgments become final on the expiry of the three-month period or earlier if the parties declare that they do not intend to make a request to refer.
[2] This summary by the Registry does not bind the Court.

=======

10,000 Euros. Paul got 30,000.

I think this case clearly illustrates the corruption of the government and the Dutch judicial system(lol) on Aruba.


Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on March 01, 2008, 01:15:06 AM
Forgot the linky.

So, he was out then.

Fin


http://www.echr.coe.int/Eng/Press/2005/Sept/ChamberjudgmentMathewvNetherlands29905.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on March 01, 2008, 01:29:08 AM
Eduardo Alexander Antonio Mathew

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduardo_Mathew


Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on March 01, 2008, 02:33:20 AM
Forgot the linky.

So, he was out then.

Fin


http://www.echr.coe.int/Eng/Press/2005/Sept/ChamberjudgmentMathewvNetherlands29905.htm

Thanks Finbar for bringing that over, VERY INFORMATIVE!!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 01, 2008, 05:15:53 AM
Forgot the linky.

So, he was out then.

Fin

http://www.echr.coe.int/Eng/Press/2005/Sept/ChamberjudgmentMathewvNetherlands29905.htm

Thanks Finbar for bringing that over, VERY INFORMATIVE!!!!

yah, good on ya, fin ... way good :cool:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 01, 2008, 05:30:33 AM
JE
Am I to understand that Alex Mathews was NOT in jail anytime during the Shango writings? I need clarification on this, please and thanks.

Mathew, a native of Aruba served a sentence at the KIA correctional facility in Aruba from 2001 to 2004 after, what may call was the wrongful conviction of an innocent black man. To many, the crime was simply the color of Mathews skin together with his high level of intellect and the fact that he was, at the time, a young entrepreneur who was headed for tremendous success.

ON NOVEMBER 5, 2005, he was returning from a trip to Holland, and he was pulled aside at Logan Airport in Boston by Customs. He was asked if he had ever been in jail in Aruba. He told them yes. They came back with some paperwork and said there was a discrepancy, and that he was being paroled back into the U.S.

He’s been in jail since May 9,2006. They’ve beat him up, violated his rights, denied him due process and tortured him at each of the prisons immigration has placed him in.

IMO this says he was released from KIA in 2004 and then put in jail in the USA in 2006


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 01, 2008, 08:34:10 AM
Does anyone think that this picture posted early was trying to show us something important? Not sure is the road to this establishment was paved......but have always felt there was a message.

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a27/clkent1294/deepakcar3.jpg)

That is about definite to be GVC holding the light just outside the window (front)
I lit it up and he is sittingwith shorts on. My eyes are tired tonight.  (am)  Anyway,
when was this supposed to have been made and by whom?  There is a picture of a bus in the oval shape where the writing is. on the wall of that building.  Those appear to be porno in the tv in front of Depak and Joran has some type movie or something going on his side to the left arm area.    j/b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 01, 2008, 08:34:32 AM
THE OTHER CAR

Freddy, Osman and the Gardener

I do not think we are talking about Deepak’s silver Honda.

I think we are talking about a gray Toyota…what is that gray car at the back of Freddy’s house?….The one that looks like the one that someone looking like Paulus was seen up by the rocks in the Aru-Bay videos…

Name: Freddy Alexander Zedan Arambatzis
Date:28 June 2005 / 14:25
Pages: 11
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Kelly & Haydee Nadal
Description: witness statement

Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 1
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness pointing out an area of interest
 
Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness statement about a gray Toyota
+++++++

Name: OSMAN FAROUK OSMAN
Date: 20 July 2005
Pages: 4
Writer/Initiator: DENNIS JACOBS/ ERIC SOEMBRS
Description: witness statement by an Automotive Center employee

Name: Freddy Zedan Arrambatzis
Date:20 July 2005
Pages: 4
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs, Eric Soemers
Description: witness statement

Name: Carlos Penata Ramos
Date:22 July 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Kelly/Luigi Croes
Description: witness statement by a gardener

Name: Luis Guillermo Rodriguez
Date:22 July 2005
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs, Zoraida De Cuba
Description: witness statement
+++++

Name: Carlos Penata Ramos
Date: 26 July 2005
Pages: 1
Writer/Initiator: Shapiro Kelly
Description: witness statement

File #: 2005.08.31.2198/1046
Name: Not Stated (tip line call)
Date: 27 July 2005
Pages: 1
Writer/Initiator: Edwin Jacinto Comenencia
Description: tip about a jogger in the Raquet Club area
++++++

Name; OSMAN FAROUK OSMAN
Date: 06 August 2005
Pages: 2
Writer /Initiator: DENNIS JACOBS / ERIC SOEMERS
Description: witness statement by an Automotive Center employee

If it has Jacobs' name on it, I want to know why!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 01, 2008, 08:42:53 AM
Mum

*******
Global Moderator


Posts: 4997
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08
« Reply #965 on: Today at 06:47:40 PM »
   


Mr. Jorge Sanchez (PTR Certified Pro)
Aruba Racquet Club

With a degree in Business Administration, Jorge decided to follow his father steps. He has been teaching tennis for the    passed 8 years and has been traveling around the world to attend the best Tennis Conferences. As the National Coach of    Aruba in 2004, his team earned the title # 1 in the Caribbean . His expertise in the modern Tennis game will help you to    reach a much higher level!.

 In the year 2002, father and son joined together to create "Sanchez Tennis Services". This school focuses on
   developing players of all ages and games of all levels and also organizes Tennis Events. Sanchez Tennis Services is well    known for developing top Junior Players of Aruba, who are able to compete at an International Level.

   Aruba Racquet Club

   Tel: 5860215

   Pro's phone:

   Mr. Leonel Sanchez : 5936693

   Mr. Jorge Sanchez : 5936263

   E-mail:

   Sancheztennis@setarnet.aw


http://www.arc.aw/tennis/tennisschool.html


Aruba Racquet Club…Thanks Lala’s

I believe this is where I started on this with the spelling of Sanchez/Sanches…..imagine that?


Name: Humphrey Hose
Date: 21 June 2005 / 9:10
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Giovanni Heyliger
Description: witness statement

Name: Magda Hilaria Frans
Date: 21 June 2005 / 11:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Giovanni Heyliger
Description: witness statement by a Racquet Club employee

Responsive to Request 41
+ Name: Jorge Porras Sanches
Date: 21 June 2005 / 14:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Juan Boezem / Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement

Name: Jorge Porras Sanches
Name/Title: Reply on request to return suspects belongings
Date: 20 October 2005
Pa.gcs: 1
Writer/Initiator: J.M.A.M. Ponsioen
++++++


 So what did all these people get questioned about and what did Jorge want returned?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 01, 2008, 08:54:18 AM
Caps......can you check into this guy and also when all the improvements were done on the Racquet Club?...TIA

Jorge Sanchez...sounds like one and the same...

Responsive to Request 41
+ Name: Jorge Porras Sanches
Date: 21 June 2005 / 14:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Juan Boezem / Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement

Name: Jorge Porras Sanches
Name/Title: Reply on request to return suspects belongings
Date: 20 October 2005
Pa.gcs: 1
Writer/Initiator: J.M.A.M. Ponsioen


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 01, 2008, 11:23:26 AM
JE
Am I to understand that Alex Mathews was NOT in jail anytime during the Shango writings? I need clarification on this, please and thanks.

Mathew, a native of Aruba served a sentence at the KIA correctional facility in Aruba from 2001 to 2004 after, what may call was the wrongful conviction of an innocent black man. To many, the crime was simply the color of Mathews skin together with his high level of intellect and the fact that he was, at the time, a young entrepreneur who was headed for tremendous success.

ON NOVEMBER 5, 2005, he was returning from a trip to Holland, and he was pulled aside at Logan Airport in Boston by Customs. He was asked if he had ever been in jail in Aruba. He told them yes. They came back with some paperwork and said there was a discrepancy, and that he was being paroled back into the U.S.

He’s been in jail since May 9,2006. They’ve beat him up, violated his rights, denied him due process and tortured him at each of the prisons immigration has placed him in.

IMO this says he was released from KIA in 2004 and then put in jail in the USA in 2006

Thanks to all of you...now I need to tie a few loose ends still dangling.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 01, 2008, 11:29:33 AM
Now, what did Jorge have that ALE took from him?  Why would this person have anything ALE would need in this case?   :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 01, 2008, 11:37:35 AM
Now, what did Jorge have that ALE took from him?  Why would this person have anything ALE would need in this case?   :roll:

Good morning Lala's....Shoes, bag...LOL...I guess it was something he wanted back!

Something is up with the Racquet Club....all the pimps said they were there in the days following Natalee's disappearance...Joran, Satish, Guido, Freddy, Koen....and of course Paulus

Will have to put days with peeps and see if it makes sense.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 01, 2008, 11:49:50 AM
Does anyone think that this picture posted early was trying to show us something important? Not sure is the road to this establishment was paved......but have always felt there was a message.

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a27/clkent1294/deepakcar3.jpg)

OK, you asked and I will tell you what I found.  In the front window you will see one man by the light, that appears, after it is lightened up to be GVC sitting in shorts.There is a man behind him farther up on the porch (who I have not had time to work on)standing.  On the porch like place there is what appears to be some strange table, but it is a large object covered by bush and it has massive amounts of red substance in and around it.  They may have made a display for us to make us look stupid, or someone may have taken pictures who wanted this found out.  Either way:  ANYHOW:  The sign says on the outside wall there:  DINNA  (close to DNA?  Yes.  Also I have not had time to read all your posts and you may already know this.  After seeing this I typed DiNNA Aruba into the computer and came up with some interesting stuff.  Give it a go.  I never opened any of it up, but the captions are plenty self-explanatory.    I will send Kass some of this later when I feel it is clear enough.  If not I will forgo sending it until it is somewhat recognizable.  You will note that when any pics are posted by them they are just about readable.  Why?
A tease, perhaps or they want to get caught but do not have the nerve to say what went on.  There is a prone figure covered with the brush there.  Strange.   Jack b   Mar 1, 2008.       


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 01, 2008, 11:52:11 AM
Now, what did Jorge have that ALE took from him?  Why would this person have anything ALE would need in this case?   :roll:

Good morning Lala's....Shoes, bag...LOL...I guess it was something he wanted back!

Something is up with the Racquet Club....all the pimps said they were there in the days following Natalee's disappearance...Joran, Satish, Guido, Freddy, Koen....and of course Paulus

Will have to put days with peeps and see if it makes sense.

The picture I was talking about below with Depak and Joran in the car here does not show part of Joran, but when I copy and past it on my computer it is very clear Joran is beside him in his loving plad shirt.
       jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 01, 2008, 11:57:22 AM
jackb....Thanks...I know Caps is really interested in DINNA...EXOTIC DINNA...XTC DNA...

Thanks again!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 01, 2008, 12:06:16 PM
jackb....Thanks...I know Caps is really interested in DINNA...EXOTIC DINNA...XTC DNA...

Thanks again!

jackb... here is the link to Caps last post ...I think...on this post #2881

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.msg357279



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 01, 2008, 12:13:09 PM
Does anyone think that this picture posted early was trying to show us something important? Not sure is the road to this establishment was paved......but have always felt there was a message.

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a27/clkent1294/deepakcar3.jpg)

OK, you asked and I will tell you what I found.  In the front window you will see one man by the light, that appears, after it is lightened up to be GVC sitting in shorts.There is a man behind him farther up on the porch (who I have not had time to work on)standing.  On the porch like place there is what appears to be some strange table, but it is a large object covered by bush and it has massive amounts of red substance in and around it.  They may have made a display for us to make us look stupid, or someone may have taken pictures who wanted this found out.  Either way:  ANYHOW:  The sign says on the outside wall there:  DINNA  (close to DNA?  Yes.  Also I have not had time to read all your posts and you may already know this.  After seeing this I typed DiNNA Aruba into the computer and came up with some interesting stuff.  Give it a go.  I never opened any of it up, but the captions are plenty self-explanatory.    I will send Kass some of this later when I feel it is clear enough.  If not I will forgo sending it until it is somewhat recognizable.  You will note that when any pics are posted by them they are just about readable.  Why?
A tease, perhaps or they want to get caught but do not have the nerve to say what went on.  There is a prone figure covered with the brush there.  Strange.   Jack b   Mar 1, 2008.       

When you type for DiNAA put DiNAA Aruba.  I mispelled it earlier.  I don't have time to research that site, but it is catering to the more baser tastes of humanity.
     jackb


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 01, 2008, 12:19:48 PM
OOPS!  Another question....Caps, do you remember our discussion about the road that is now paved and has the white pickup?  It's in this thread somewhere, but I doubt I could find it now. LOL  I am sure Mum remembers...well, maybe. LOL

Um....just stopping by and can't stay long, but I thought Caps said the road is still not paved....wish I didn't have personal life things interfering with my forum time.

You are right...see I knew someone would remember.   The nerve of people thinking they are more important than your time with us. LOL


The house in the other area of the island where the driveway was not paved is now paved.

this is what they say....we need to confirm if it has new asfalt on it. the asfalt is new they say and the loot is under the asfalt.

The source will be checked again but I have a couple of Q. to ask him to see if what he knows and say can be veryfied.

I did not forget the probability that they would do this but first lets finish one task and move to the other.

CAPS

CAPS,

Thanks. That was what I meant to say before. I made a mistake posting "road". I meant driveway.

One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the driveway is now paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA.


CAPS, thanks for what you are doing.

Take your time and go slow.

Don't ask the WRONG questions there(don't put yourself at risk).


Fin

That place where the car is in front of is DiNAA (DNA) and it comes up when I type DiNAA Aruba in search (the correct way to spell it is DiNAA) very interesting.  See my post, I believe it is on pg 50 or thereabouts.   Jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 01, 2008, 12:21:00 PM
About this picture in the car

IMO its just shot from the back seat of the car for no special purposes

The large version is on this site

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/305850535ERHiiA?start=48

I ve cropped and ligthened a part of the larger original image

(http://i26.tinypic.com/35jmd0g.jpg)

I think that the object with the yellow light is a public phone or something

Just a street scene close to one of the Diamond International stores
their logo is on the sign

(http://i29.tinypic.com/16gbad5.gif)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 01, 2008, 12:24:41 PM
Now, what did Jorge have that ALE took from him?  Why would this person have anything ALE would need in this case?   :roll:

Good morning Lala's....Shoes, bag...LOL...I guess it was something he wanted back!

Something is up with the Racquet Club....all the pimps said they were there in the days following Natalee's disappearance...Joran, Satish, Guido, Freddy, Koen....and of course Paulus

Will have to put days with peeps and see if it makes sense.

WE know Joran played tennis there...we know some of the other Dutch kids played there...but did Deepak and Satish actually play tennis?  Do we know this for certain?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 01, 2008, 12:26:37 PM
there are three possible locations i think for where this pic was taken

(http://i32.tinypic.com/mkx7xg.gif)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 01, 2008, 12:30:57 PM
Now, what did Jorge have that ALE took from him?  Why would this person have anything ALE would need in this case?   :roll:

Good morning Lala's....Shoes, bag...LOL...I guess it was something he wanted back!

Something is up with the Racquet Club....all the pimps said they were there in the days following Natalee's disappearance...Joran, Satish, Guido, Freddy, Koen....and of course Paulus

Will have to put days with peeps and see if it makes sense.

WE know Joran played tennis there...we know some of the other Dutch kids played there...but did Deepak and Satish actually play tennis?  Do we know this for certain?

As far as I know...no tennis for Satish....let me see what I have saved on Satish being there....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 01, 2008, 12:34:53 PM
I have a reason for asking about Satish and Deepak playing tennis...we need to establish the fact that he did or did not play tennis for a reason.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 01, 2008, 12:40:45 PM
From Satish... 6/13/2005 PV

On Wednesday June 1, 2005 I wenr to school in the morning and came home around 2.30 p.m. When I came home my brother Deepak was home. Around that time the police called him for driving the same route. I asked my brother where he and Joran told the police that we had stopped the car at the Holiday Inn, in order to let Natalee get out of the car. I told him then what I had pointed to as the spot where we stopped at the Holiday Inn. My brother then went to the police station at  Bubali. At Bubali both of us were asked, separately, to show the route. I told the police I had done that already yesterday. I understood they did not know that and we had to do it over again. After we drove the route we went back to Bubali. I called my brother Deepak to pick me up. When he picked me up we went straight to the Racquet Club, near Marriot. My brother told me we were going to Joran. He is an intern at the club. In front of the entrance of the club the three of us met and talked. We talked about what happened. Joran told him the police called him to take him to drive the route. We told him which route we drove so he knew where to go. We spoke for about 15 minutes. We did not speak long because the police was on its way to pick up Joran. After that we drove straight home. At home my brother and I finished our sister´s home work. It had to be finished the next day. As we were busy my brother got a phone call from Joran. My brother told me we had to go to Joran´s later on. After we finished our sister´s work we went to Joran. I drove the car to his house.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 01, 2008, 12:42:57 PM
there are three possible locations i think for where this pic was taken

(http://i32.tinypic.com/mkx7xg.gif)

Why is this photo important other than it was taken from a myspace type site that belonged to one of the girls in the photo with Freddy?  I have missed something here.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on March 01, 2008, 12:45:37 PM
FIN...

From Diario: Robert Wayne Benson found dead in Aruba
 (http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Robert_20Wayne_20Benson_small-1.jpg)
From Diario, 17 November, 2005; Mecanico di Harley Davidson haya morto den container

Another person found dead in Aruba. The body of American born Robert Wayne Benson found in a locked container.

Full translation, Hat Tip: Getagrip

Harley Davidson mechanic found dead in a container

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Yesterday afternoon, a San Nicolas patrol car was sent to Cura Cabay, just behind a company that fixes cars and motorcycles, since a dead person was found in a container.
The person in question is the known mechanic Robert Wayne Benson, born in the U.S., of 58 years of age, resident of Pos Abao, who the day before had disappeared, according to his wife.

” The owner of the business, aware of his disappearance, asked two employees to go take a look at the container, they forced the door of the container which was locked from the inside and when opening it they encountered the lifeless body.  ”

Dr. van der Linden confirmed his death, however the cause is still not precisely known. Our deep condolences to his family.


http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/11/19/from-diario-robert-wayne-benson-found-dead-in-aruba/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 01, 2008, 12:46:01 PM
I have a reason for asking about Satish and Deepak playing tennis...we need to establish the fact that he did or did not play tennis for a reason.

Lala's...I can not recall anything about either of them playing tennis.

I will check book and PV's to see if I can find anything and the dates that both came to Aruba.

I don't think Deepak would with the hours he worked at the cafe, but that's my opinion only.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 01, 2008, 01:05:06 PM
there are three possible locations i think for where this pic was taken

(http://i32.tinypic.com/mkx7xg.gif)

Why is this photo important other than it was taken from a myspace type site that belonged to one of the girls in the photo with Freddy?  I have missed something here.

Lalas i dont think it is i just posted it to clarify that it is not at some mysterious location, or that it was taken as a means to convey a message.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 01, 2008, 01:39:16 PM
there are three possible locations i think for where this pic was taken

(http://i32.tinypic.com/mkx7xg.gif)

Why is this photo important other than it was taken from a myspace type site that belonged to one of the girls in the photo with Freddy?  I have missed something here.

Lalas i dont think it is i just posted it to clarify that it is not at some mysterious location, or that it was taken as a means to convey a message.

I see. Thanks.  Now, what message?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 01, 2008, 01:41:57 PM
I have a reason for asking about Satish and Deepak playing tennis...we need to establish the fact that he did or did not play tennis for a reason.

Lala's...I can not recall anything about either of them playing tennis.

I will check book and PV's to see if I can find anything and the dates that both came to Aruba.

I don't think Deepak would with the hours he worked at the cafe, but that's my opinion only.

I am wondering why Satish would be so upset by a tennis player/instructor or whatever's death if he never played tennis?  Maybe, it was just a teacher and not a tennis instructor or maybe it was a lie since all people lie.  I am thinking that Satish, in the conversations that were recorded, was indeed talking about Natalee...of course we all knew that. Oh well.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 01, 2008, 01:48:36 PM
I have a reason for asking about Satish and Deepak playing tennis...we need to establish the fact that he did or did not play tennis for a reason.

Lala's...I can not recall anything about either of them playing tennis.

I will check book and PV's to see if I can find anything and the dates that both came to Aruba.

I don't think Deepak would with the hours he worked at the cafe, but that's my opinion only.

I am wondering why Satish would be so upset by a tennis player/instructor or whatever's death if he never played tennis?  Maybe, it was just a teacher and not a tennis instructor or maybe it was a lie since all people lie.  I am thinking that Satish, in the conversations that were recorded, was indeed talking about Natalee...of course we all knew that. Oh well.

I had forgotten all about that!...Was it Deepak or Satish?

I did start to look for the drownings in MsMaple's thread and never finished!

What do you remember about it?...TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 01, 2008, 02:10:33 PM
About this picture in the car

IMO its just shot from the back seat of the car for no special purposes

The large version is on this site

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/305850535ERHiiA?start=48

I ve cropped and ligthened a part of the larger original image

(http://i26.tinypic.com/35jmd0g.jpg)

I think that the object with the yellow light is a public phone or something

Just a street scene close to one of the Diamond International stores
their logo is on the sign

(http://i29.tinypic.com/16gbad5.gif)

You are not using the right flashlight.  The bricks are gold when you use the right light on them and the "Diam becomes DiNAA.  I guess that is why they are saying we dumb cowboys cannot see the smoke signals that they are in plain view.  They are.  There is some wierd stuff going on there.  You cannot see, but it would take me too long at this time to explain, but I will when you ask me.  When the right light is on there you will see the faces of the boys in the car reflected back from the windshield.  So far I have seen four I have recognized counting the two big people in the front.    Also there will start to become pictures on the "bricks" of anguished faces and PV initials in what looks like blood on the outer walls.  It is wierd.  Also it appears the name Jossy appears, but as I said, someone could be trying to discredit us with the picture or trying to help.  They may have the advertising so that it appears with a certain light given to the members....never heard of it, but it is possible, I suppose.  There is something to that picture whether it is for helping or for mockery, it is there.          jack blue


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 01, 2008, 02:12:30 PM
there are three possible locations i think for where this pic was taken

(http://i32.tinypic.com/mkx7xg.gif)

Why is this photo important other than it was taken from a myspace type site that belonged to one of the girls in the photo with Freddy?  I have missed something here.

Lalas i dont think it is i just posted it to clarify that it is not at some mysterious location, or that it was taken as a means to convey a message.

I see. Thanks.  Now, what message?

Maybe i should have writen "nor that it was taken as a means to convey a message."

If i did not make myself clear i m srry LOL. I just looked into the picture and the location it was taken at, because others asked if it was important.

My opinion: It s not important. It's just a random pic taken before may 29th. No message, no secret location. just a pic


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 01, 2008, 02:19:46 PM
I have a reason for asking about Satish and Deepak playing tennis...we need to establish the fact that he did or did not play tennis for a reason.

Lala's...I can not recall anything about either of them playing tennis.

I will check book and PV's to see if I can find anything and the dates that both came to Aruba.

I don't think Deepak would with the hours he worked at the cafe, but that's my opinion only.

I am wondering why Satish would be so upset by a tennis player/instructor or whatever's death if he never played tennis?  Maybe, it was just a teacher and not a tennis instructor or maybe it was a lie since all people lie.  I am thinking that Satish, in the conversations that were recorded, was indeed talking about Natalee...of course we all knew that. Oh well.

I had forgotten all about that!...Was it Deepak or Satish?

I did start to look for the drownings in MsMaple's thread and never finished!

What do you remember about it?...TIA

I think he mentioned a death in an email. And it was assumed that he talked about Natalee, but it was explained as him refering to the drowning of a tennis player. i am not 100% sure though


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 01, 2008, 02:24:04 PM
it was this:

The defense attorney are not denying that the internet chats took place, nor are they denying when the internet chats took place. They are denying the interpretation of the content of what was said. A CNN article reports that Hans Mos stated that the chat took place shortly after May 30, 2005.

    Mos said evidence on an Internet chat shortly after May 30, 2005, suggested Holloway was dead and prosecutors used the chat messages to rearrest the three key suspects in the case, CNN reported Friday.

So the real question remains, when was the exact time of this internet chat and why would a suspect. Did the internet chat take place prior to anyone having knowledge that Natalee Holloway was missing? If so, how could they have known?

    “That chat session was about two subjects: the disappearance of Natalee and the death of a tennis instructor that drowned near Conchi.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 01, 2008, 02:27:29 PM
forgot the link

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/12/24/no-matter-where-they-reside-defense-attorney-act-lower-than-pond-scum-care-to-discuss-the-times-of-the-chats/#more-5075


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 01, 2008, 02:31:24 PM
I have a reason for asking about Satish and Deepak playing tennis...we need to establish the fact that he did or did not play tennis for a reason.

Lala's...I can not recall anything about either of them playing tennis.

I will check book and PV's to see if I can find anything and the dates that both came to Aruba.

I don't think Deepak would with the hours he worked at the cafe, but that's my opinion only.

I am wondering why Satish would be so upset by a tennis player/instructor or whatever's death if he never played tennis?  Maybe, it was just a teacher and not a tennis instructor or maybe it was a lie since all people lie.  I am thinking that Satish, in the conversations that were recorded, was indeed talking about Natalee...of course we all knew that. Oh well.

I had forgotten all about that!...Was it Deepak or Satish?

I did start to look for the drownings in MsMaple's thread and never finished!

What do you remember about it?...TIA

I think he mentioned a death in an email. And it was assumed that he talked about Natalee, but it was explained as him refering to the drowning of a tennis player. i am not 100% sure though

Thanks JE...I will have to look it up...I thought I remembered a teacher...how soon we forget....information overload is what it is!

Still need to find when the Kalpoes moved to Aruba...it was different times, but Deepak may never have gone to school there.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 01, 2008, 02:47:46 PM
I have a reason for asking about Satish and Deepak playing tennis...we need to establish the fact that he did or did not play tennis for a reason.

Lala's...I can not recall anything about either of them playing tennis.

I will check book and PV's to see if I can find anything and the dates that both came to Aruba.

I don't think Deepak would with the hours he worked at the cafe, but that's my opinion only.

Yeah, they played beach tenns looks like a badmiton set up to me.  Have a pic somewhere of Depak and the Sasquatch (sp?) playing what they pass for tennis down there.  The net is high like badminton.  May use a tennis ball modified for sand.    jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 01, 2008, 02:54:10 PM
Caps for you
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/ARU10107201508-big.jpg)

Caps I asked Klass to send you a pic of what I was speaking of about the right llight.  Same pic, but different lighting.  Also that green windshield does not help on that car.   I gotta go for now.  j/b  30208


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on March 01, 2008, 03:24:44 PM
This is the photo Jackb was referring to.  We had already determined (I think the pics are in the Bailey Ann thread) that Deepak's car is in front of Diamonds International:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/DeepakCarDI.jpg)


Link to the Bailey Ann thread for your viewing pleasure  ::MonkeyWink::

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=663.0


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 01, 2008, 08:42:07 PM
Lala’s was right…of course…tennis teacher…LOL ::MonkeyDance::


Snipped

The 24-year-old native of Suriname in fact told a friend he was upset and thought it was stupid of him to let Holloway, whom he called a drunk stranger, get into his car, the attorney said.
Kalpoe then commented on the death of a tennis teacher who drowned in Aruba almost three years ago. When prosecutors translated his writing from Papiamento to Dutch, they substituted 'the death' to 'her death,' and assumed he was talking about Holloway, Wix said. Most Arubans speak Papiamento, a Creole language that has absorbed words from Spanish, Dutch, English and Portuguese.
Mos was on vacation Friday and could not be reached for a response. Another prosecutor, Dop Kruimel, did not immediately return phone calls seeking comment.


From book…- though Koen and Sander Joran met the hindu Kalpoe brothers Deepak and Satish. Deepak had been living on Aruba for 5 years, Satish for 3 years


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 02, 2008, 11:01:59 AM
My point exactly! If Mos had made an effort, he would have found out that Satish not only doesn't play tennis...he had not been in Aruba long enough to establish a relationship with a tennis teacher that later died.  The way they take their words as credible fact just drives me nuts.  I guarantee you they did not ask any further questions after Satish said it was a teacher.  They do not and can not let the truth come out. 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 02, 2008, 11:06:41 AM
I need monkey help here...this thread needs an index of some sort.  If possible, could several monkeys volunteer to read through some of the old pages and jot down the highlights and then send it to my email? I have already done pages 22 through 42 and a few others.  Please, is anyone interested?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sharon on March 02, 2008, 11:51:46 AM
lala's -- i see the request, but unfortuantely am on my way to work today. sorry.

weekends is all the 'free time' i have :-(  and not so much this weekend.

i hope you get the help you've asked for before next weekend -- i will check back as i can.

just wanted you to know that i saw your request and would have liked to have helped -- as I've been a 'shango head' for a long time  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 02, 2008, 12:10:25 PM
Thanks for at least considering it. It is a big task ahead if I actually attempt it in some way.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 02, 2008, 10:57:31 PM
I need monkey help here...this thread needs an index of some sort.  If possible, could several monkeys volunteer to read through some of the old pages and jot down the highlights and then send it to my email? I have already done pages 22 through 42 and a few others.  Please, is anyone interested?

I'll gladly help  :cool:

your email addy ... ?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 03, 2008, 06:32:38 AM
My point exactly! If Mos had made an effort, he would have found out that Satish not only doesn't play tennis...he had not been in Aruba long enough to establish a relationship with a tennis teacher that later died.  The way they take their words as credible fact just drives me nuts.  I guarantee you they did not ask any further questions after Satish said it was a teacher.  They do not and can not let the truth come out. 



Lala's...I meant to post the link and forgot...It appears to be Deepak...I am doing a quick search on drownings...so far a 16 year old boy...June 7th 2005??? and a Bulgarian tourist 01/2008.

JE...sorry I missed your post on this until after I loggout...the page flipped and I usually go back and check...sorry!


In discussing the online chat, prosecutor Hans Mos told reporters that one of the suspects — he did not disclose which — wrote that Holloway, 18 at the time of disappearance, was dead. He also said Internet messages among two suspects discussed meeting drunk American girls in Aruba.

Wix said the prosecution misinterpreted Deepak Kalpoe's Internet chats.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/12/21/news/CB-GEN-Aruba-Missing-Teen.php




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 03, 2008, 08:26:33 AM
Lala's and JE...one more on the tennis teacher....I did not find one that drowned, but didn't expect to.

More confusion as to Satish or Deepak, but the timeline is discussed here...

http://scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=725&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=42c014a3fb9cd175700dac206d694767




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 03, 2008, 10:22:02 AM
I need monkey help here...this thread needs an index of some sort.  If possible, could several monkeys volunteer to read through some of the old pages and jot down the highlights and then send it to my email? I have already done pages 22 through 42 and a few others.  Please, is anyone interested?

I'll gladly help  :cool:

your email addy ... ?

Thanks!  cindoal@yahoo.com


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 03, 2008, 10:23:23 AM
Lala's and JE...one more on the tennis teacher....I did not find one that drowned, but didn't expect to.

More confusion as to Satish or Deepak, but the timeline is discussed here...

http://scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=725&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=42c014a3fb9cd175700dac206d694767




I may have my perps confused then...maybe it was Deepak, but I thought it was an email or phone call between Satish and someone else.  Hmmmm.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 03, 2008, 10:35:16 AM
After reading that link it appears to be Deepak they are talking about...my mistake.  Sorry.  Now, the next question should have been where did you play tennis, Deepak?  How long have you played there and how in the heck could you afford to be a member of a tennis club with your salary?  What hours were your lessons?  Did you ever have any contact with anyone else at that club? Please give us the names of those people that routinely saw you at your tennis lesson.  I know, that would be too much to ask...but that is just some of the questions they should have asked...I am thinking that Deepak did not play tennis at any exclusive club on Aruba at all.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 03, 2008, 10:39:06 AM
Lala's and JE...one more on the tennis teacher....I did not find one that drowned, but didn't expect to.

More confusion as to Satish or Deepak, but the timeline is discussed here...

http://scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=725&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=42c014a3fb9cd175700dac206d694767




I may have my perps confused then...maybe it was Deepak, but I thought it was an email or phone call between Satish and someone else.  Hmmmm.

I'm not sure...this link says Satish and the other says Deepak...LOL...do I have that right?

I think it's all BS anyway....no tennis teacher drowned...and more confusion....

I quit searching after an hour or so as I figured it was a waste of time.

The one that bothers me is the 16 year old on June 7th...another coincidence...hang on I read somewhere this morning he was 7....you get my drift!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 03, 2008, 10:42:24 AM
After reading that link it appears to be Deepak they are talking about...my mistake.  Sorry.  Now, the next question should have been where did you play tennis, Deepak?  How long have you played there and how in the heck could you afford to be a member of a tennis club with your salary?  What hours were your lessons?  Did you ever have any contact with anyone else at that club? Please give us the names of those people that routinely saw you at your tennis lesson.  I know, that would be too much to ask...but that is just some of the questions they should have asked...I am thinking that Deepak did not play tennis at any exclusive club on Aruba at all.

I think jackb said he has a pic of Satish playing with a high net like badminton...this would be beach tennis...much the same as our beach volleyball...I would guess...doesn't even have to be organized...just for fun.
No instruction necessary!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on March 03, 2008, 01:32:33 PM
For what it's worth, which is nothing, I remember it being Satish who was talking on the phone to a girl at five or six o'clock in the morning, not sleeping as was his sworn statement.

The girl was in Suriname I believe as was the alleged (and probably non-existent) tennis teacher.  Didn't say he took lessons from this teacher, only that she/he  was supposedly a friend.

Must have been a very very close friend for him to still be so upset supposedly years later.  Just something they made up to explain why he was talking about a dead person on the phone that night.

Now why would he have even been thinking of dead people?  Most young people I know seldom do that.  And that night of all times, acting strangely and talking about dead people?  It was Natalee and not any tennis teacher at all.  They just make up things and expect us to believe whatever tale they come up with.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 03, 2008, 01:59:19 PM
My point exactly! If Mos had made an effort, he would have found out that Satish not only doesn't play tennis...he had not been in Aruba long enough to establish a relationship with a tennis teacher that later died.  The way they take their words as credible fact just drives me nuts.  I guarantee you they did not ask any further questions after Satish said it was a teacher.  They do not and can not let the truth come out. 



Lala's...I meant to post the link and forgot...It appears to be Deepak...I am doing a quick search on drownings...so far a 16 year old boy...June 7th 2005??? and a Bulgarian tourist 01/2008.

JE...sorry I missed your post on this until after I loggout...the page flipped and I usually go back and check...sorry!


In discussing the online chat, prosecutor Hans Mos told reporters that one of the suspects — he did not disclose which — wrote that Holloway, 18 at the time of disappearance, was dead. He also said Internet messages among two suspects discussed meeting drunk American girls in Aruba.

Wix said the prosecution misinterpreted Deepak Kalpoe's Internet chats.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/12/21/news/CB-GEN-Aruba-Missing-Teen.php




Mum no problem about missing the post LOL

I m sure the deepak was the one who talked about the drowned tennis teacher on a retrieved chat session. He actually talked about his/her death while not mentioning the tennis teacher in the first place. his lawyers then said that the papiementu word "su" can mean "his" or "her" and said that his or her death refered to the tennis teacher and not Natalee.

He also made a phone call to a girl in surinam about five hours after Joran supposedly left Natalee at the beach. The girl later told police that was acting strange

If he did talk about a tennis teacher it could have been a male or female

some articles:
http://betweenlifeanddeath.blogspot.com/2007/12/natalee-holloway-recent-news.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 03, 2008, 02:01:26 PM
oh and the teacher drowned at conchi just like the bulgarian tourist. Conchi is less than a mile from where tim miller believed the shallow grave was


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Anna on March 03, 2008, 02:07:54 PM
JE,

You may well be correct.  I am speaking only from memory and mine is frazzled at the moment.

.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 03, 2008, 02:13:06 PM
I m just as confused as you now

"There was also a new witness: a girlfriend of one of the three suspects. She said that a little more than five hours after the disappearance, she was called by one of the three suspects with the information that 'something bad' happened that he couldn't talk about over the phone. It appeared that didn't concern Van der Sloot but Satish and Deepak. Van der Sloot: 'That wasn't any new evidence against me. It concerned a tapped conversation between Satish and his girlfriend from Suriname, in which he so-called* told her that something bad happened and that Deepak supposedly said the girl was dead'."

 ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 03, 2008, 02:17:42 PM
oh and the teacher drowned at conchi just like the bulgarian tourist. Conchi is less than a mile from where tim miller believed the shallow grave was

Hi JE...I checked Conchi this morning and didn't find anything...all I found were tourists drowning on Aruba except for the one on June 7th 2005.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 03, 2008, 02:20:07 PM
oh and the teacher drowned at conchi just like the bulgarian tourist. Conchi is less than a mile from where tim miller believed the shallow grave was

Hi JE...I checked Conchi this morning and didn't find anything...all I found were tourists drowning on Aruba except for the one on June 7th 2005.

This is about the bulgarian at conchi
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/01/10/tourist-dies-in-aruba-drowns-at-conchi-aruba-it-has-a-beautiful-view-but-a-visit-is-not-without-danger-natalee-holloway-would-attest-the-same/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 03, 2008, 02:23:07 PM
this is about the 17 year old boy
I dont think it was at conchi though

******* posted this on


http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/09/05/missing-man-gregory-van-der-biezen-drown-in-aruba-however-his-body-was-found/

Sounds like the same beach as the bloody mattress was found..They determined within hours that it was Dogs blood and no way related to Natalee Holloway..Hmmm…Who has a history of killing Dogs in Aruba besides Joran Van Der Sloot and Lorenzo Van Rijn??

However they launched a huge search in that area and also in Savaneta from a anonymous tip. Awemainta newspaper even reported Natalee was dead. Next day they said it was a mistake and was a 17 year old boy. Where is that Bloody Mattress?

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/amAruba.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/aruba_20paper.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/2418646920086243696rMnIOK_ph.jpg


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on March 03, 2008, 04:38:04 PM
I m just as confused as you now

"There was also a new witness: a girlfriend of one of the three suspects. She said that a little more than five hours after the disappearance, she was called by one of the three suspects with the information that 'something bad' happened that he couldn't talk about over the phone. It appeared that didn't concern Van der Sloot but Satish and Deepak. Van der Sloot: 'That wasn't any new evidence against me. It concerned a tapped conversation between Satish and his girlfriend from Suriname, in which he so-called* told her that something bad happened and that Deepak supposedly said the girl was dead'."

 ::MonkeyConfused::


Yes wasn't that Deepak calling his xgirlfriend  maybe she was the one he asked if he could use her for his albi  she said NO and she called the  police on him.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: LoRain on March 03, 2008, 10:28:20 PM
In this photo, the only one besides Oduber that I can for sure identy is EDISON BRIES:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/MEP1.jpg)


If I'm not mistaken he was accused of sexual harrassment last year plus some scandal in Curacao or Bonaire having to do with prostitution (I think).

Could the guy behind the guy with the striped tie be one of the rock painters?

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Video%2027/paaaint222w.jpg)

Thanks....I can't tell....I have seen his pic somewhere before.....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 03, 2008, 10:44:19 PM
Caps posted those pics either in here on the NAH thread a few weeks back. They are all quite interesting.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on March 03, 2008, 11:28:36 PM
Anyone know the name of SGC's father?

Tick tock, the hammer & the block.


Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on March 03, 2008, 11:47:30 PM
From Kermit's post in the other thread:

"The justices on the Aruban bench:

mw. mr. E. Angela august 1st 2000
mw. mr. P. de Bruin august 1st 2000
mr. J.S. Kuiperdal
mr. P.A.H. Lemaire august 1st 2002
mr. C. Slothouber august 1st 2001
## mr. F.J.F. Gerard march 1st 2005
## mr. H.E. de Boer august 1st 2005
## mr. J.A. van Voorthuizen august 1st 2005



The justices on the Curacao bench

mw. mr. M.K. Asscheman-Versluis (since august 1st 1999)
mr. J. de Boer august 1st 1998
@ mr. R.A. Th. M. Dekkers after 2004 because at that time he was judge in The Hague
mr. W. Foppen (since august 1st 1999)
mr. L. van Gijn august 1st 2000
@ mr. L. Groefsema after 2004 because mr. L. Groefsema was a judge in Assen in 2004
@ mw. mr. L.C. Hoefdraad after 2004 because mw. mr. L.C. Hoefdraad at that time was a judge in the Hague
@ mr. S.M. Lieshout after 2004 because mr. S.M. Lieshout was a judge in Utrecht
mr. B.M. Mezas

@ mr. R.F.B. van Zutphen after 2004 because mr. R.F.B. van Zutphen was a judge in Amsterdam
mr. M.W. Zandbergen since may 1st 2000
@ mr. J.Th. Wit after 2004 because in 2004 he was DA in Dordrecht
mr. P. Wagemakers august 1st 2000
@ mr. R.W.J. van Veen after 2004 because in 2004 he was still a judge in Breda
mw. mr. M.M.M. Tillema september 1st 2000
@ mr. J.R. Sijmonsma after 2004
mw. mr. E.A. Saleh since august 1st 1999
mr. G.E.M. Polkamp november 1st 2000
@ mw. mr. M.H.H.A. Moes 2004 or later because in 2004 she was a judge in Almelo
mr. M.L.A. Angela since march 1st 2000
mr. A.N.G.N.E. Mijnssen since 1996, from november 2000 onwards part-time judge
mr. F.P. Wiel re-appointed for 3 more years on august 1st 1999
@ mr. H.A.C. Smid (since march 1st 2005)
## mr. J.M.P. Drijkoningen (since august 1st 2005)
## mw. mr. A.M.P. Geelhoed (since august 1st 2005)
## mr. K.J. Haarhuis (since august 1st 2005)
## mw. mr. L. de Kerpel-van de Poel (since august 1st 2005)
## mw. mr. A.S. Gratama (since august 1st 2005)
## mr. H.L. Wattel (since september 1st 2005)
Mr. P. W. van Schendel re-appointed for 3 more years on august 1st 2005

## mr. E.M. van der Bunt february 1st 2005
## mr. dr. J.P. de Haan february 1st 2005
@ mr. J.H. Bosch august 1st 2004
@ mr. E.P. van Unen august 1st 2004
@ mr. drs. G.C.C. Lewin august 1st 2004
@ mr W.J. Noordhuizen august 1st 2004
@ mr J.Th. Drop september 1st 2004

From the 45 justices working for the Court of Aruba and the Antilles:

11 started working there after Paul van der Sloot became a suspect
15 started working there much later than Paul van der Sloot

Only 19 might be friends of Paul van der Sloot and of them 14 were Curacao justices."

=============

46 sacrifices.

The judges serve three year contracts. Three years from 2005 would be now. A new(?) group of judges rotated in(unless they may serve more than once).

The 47th would break the cycle of conspiracy.

The conspiracy will then fall.

Judges....

The crooks, on Aruba or even in the United States, cannot flourish without corrupt lawyers and judges.

Look at all those businesses that people own there. They are washing machines.

Maybe PVDS is a lawyer for the dark side.

While I do not think drug trafficking is the answer that we seek, it is a piece of the puzzle. There are many pieces. All important.

We must shine a light on those that rule the night.

Why do the cowboys turn their heads? Me thinks the ABC's get their clothes washed there too. Easier than on the Hill.


Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 04, 2008, 12:22:44 AM

first interpretation of the 46 I've seen that makes me go :shock:

the post office, the laundromat and now this


 :cool:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 04, 2008, 12:57:25 AM
Anyone know the name of SGC's father?

Tick tock, the hammer & the block.


Fin

You mean the guy he was taking to the airport when Greta stopped him? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 04, 2008, 01:03:57 AM
I think that guy was his uncle...don't remember if I have ever heard Steve's father's name. Hmmmmmmm.  Wonder if he's a judge? the uncle's name was Solinger or something like that, I think.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on March 04, 2008, 01:06:16 AM

first interpretation of the 46 I've seen that makes me go :shock:

the post office, the laundromat and now this


 :cool:



Gives the Sno-Cone Shop, down there, a whole new connotation.

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on March 04, 2008, 01:09:33 AM
Anyone know the name of SGC's father?

Tick tock, the hammer & the block.


Fin

You mean the guy he was taking to the airport when Greta stopped him? 

No, his biological father.

Second post, was if Rufo? That name rings a bell. I thought cop, but maybe someone else, that was not kicked in the head by a miniature horse, could ring in.

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on March 04, 2008, 01:16:57 AM
I think that guy was his uncle...don't remember if I have ever heard Steve's father's name. Hmmmmmmm.  Wonder if he's a judge? the uncle's name was Solinger or something like that, I think.

Why sis his uncle pick him up?

Maybe papa is dead. Maybe he is close to the uncle.

May be a dead end. I was reading old stuff and someone mentions SGC had a high ranking father in the judiciary. So, yes. Judge was what I was seeking.

Has anyone ever named his father?

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on March 04, 2008, 01:38:59 AM
Anyone know the name of SGC's father?

Tick tock, the hammer & the block.


Fin

His Uncle is Rufo Solognier retired ALE who he was living with..He has a son around 5 years old but not married. Not sure what his Fathers name is but I am assuming he lives in Curacao where they are from. I think his family is in the bottled water business.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 04, 2008, 02:28:56 AM

2005: lived w/ gramma/grampa, Tio Rufo lived next door ...
mom/pops in curacao

partnership in bottled water business began in 2006, IIRC

eBay rings a bell


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 04, 2008, 04:23:26 AM
"The justices on the Aruban bench:

mr. J.S. Kuiperdal ...deceased...info in the thread somewhere...judge in the security guards cases.

The justices on the Curacao bench

From  previous posts back on page 74...coincidence???

mr. L. van Gijn august 1st 2000

Judge sorry the translated page didn't copy
Rechter Leo van Gijn wilde vooral van de bewindsman en het Departement van Luchtvaart horen waarom het eerste artikel van de verleende vergunning alle ruimte biedt aan de luchtvaartmaatschappij

Reply #1468 on: January 29, 2008, 01:53:32 PM »   Reply with quote
 
I knew I'd seen it...Jossy used Gijn...the other paper used Rijn...From what I've seen the Gijn family is influential and has a history in The netherlands...

#471 on: June 21, 2007, 11:39:26 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/6/21/


Quote
Cas yena cu camara, yen di cacho brabo y rondona cu prikkel draad…
LORENZO VAN GIJN DETENI PA PLANTACION GRANDI
DI MARIHUANA NA SAVANETA

ORANJESTAD(AAN):Lorenzo van Gijn no ta un desconoci di polis. Den e bishitanan cu e Team Bijzondere Projecten a haci na diferente lugar, su cas no tabata un excepcion.







Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on March 04, 2008, 04:33:08 AM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Arrests%20in%20the%20case/manincar.jpg)
His Uncle is Rufo Solognier retired ALE who he was living with.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 04, 2008, 05:32:40 AM
Not sure on this Blonde....I recall he was living with his Grandmother and the uncle lived next door. I don't have the links handy, but it may have been Fox. There is a lot of info at Riehl World on this.

Also the Mother came from Curacao when he was arrested and was concerned when he was called to the police station in August, when the Kalpoes and Freddy were arrested, that he was going to be re-arrested.

Steve said he was there to pick up some things....I asked I believe last week, if SGC was singing in August....

COLUMBO would know when Steve was singing....  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on March 04, 2008, 08:26:05 AM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Arrests%20in%20the%20case/manincar.jpg)
His Uncle is Rufo Solognier retired ALE who he was living with.

The party boat that employs Croes docks near the Holiday Inn where Holloway was staying.

Croes' uncle Rufo Solognier, a retired police officer, described his nephew as a quiet divorced man with a 2-year-old son. Solognier said he did not know of any connection between Croes and the three others.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/18/missing.teen/index.html




CNN spoke with his next-door neighbor, who identified himself as Rufo Solognier. He identified the person arrested as his nephew Steve Croes and described him as a quiet, divorced father of a 2-year-old son.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/17/missing.teen/index.html



RUFO SOLOGNIER, STEVE CROES' UNCLE: No, not for a week.

VAN SUSTEREN: What is your...

SOLOGNIER: My wife went to the courtroom this morning.

VAN SUSTEREN: Right. What did they say in court today?

SOLOGNIER: Nothing. Nothing. They can't say nothing. He can't speak to her.

VAN SUSTEREN: They won't let Steve Croes talk to his...

SOLOGNIER: No, nobody.

VAN SUSTEREN: Why not?

SOLOGNIER: I don't know. I have to ask the lawyer.

VAN SUSTEREN: Steve is not your son, he's your nephew, right?

SOLOGNIER: He's the nephew of my wife.

VAN SUSTEREN: Where is Steve's parents?

SOLOGNIER: In Curacao.

VAN SUSTEREN: And sorry, he lives next door with his grandmother?

SOLOGNIER: Grandmother, grandfather.

VAN SUSTEREN: With your wife's mother and father then?

SOLOGNIER: Yes, yes, yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: And his grandparents. Any idea
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160562,00.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 04, 2008, 09:11:53 AM
Mum this one is for you...

Deepak 6/10 PV:

To your question whether or not we pick up girls when we go for example to "Carlos & Charlies", I can state the following. Yes, we from time to time pick up girls there.

To your question whether these are local girls or tourists, I can state the following. They are tourists.
To your question as to who is the one who makes the first move towards the girls we are going to pick up, I can state the following. It usually is Joran or another friend with the name Freddy Zedan.

Joran and Freddy are the two that work the tourists.  Did someone say 5th suspect?

Still doing my homework assignment...LOL...and found this interesting in that Deepak was calling Freddy - Freddy Zedan this early in the case.

Would someone please look at the famous pic on page 80 and see if they think Freddy could be either Greek or Middle Eastern....Arambatzis-Greek...Zedan-Middle Eastern....only one Arambatzis found in Venezuela and NO Zedans in Aruba or Venezuela....Note to self...LOL...the Arends name didn't stick for long!

Joran over stresses in his book that Freddy only spoke Pap...no Dutch.

Too many names and too much mystery surrounds Freddy, including sneaking him out the back door when he was released, I need to find out more about Freddy!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 04, 2008, 11:02:08 AM
"The justices on the Aruban bench:

mr. J.S. Kuiperdal ...deceased...info in the thread somewhere...judge in the security guards cases.

The justices on the Curacao bench

From  previous posts back on page 74...coincidence???

mr. L. van Gijn august 1st 2000

Judge sorry the translated page didn't copy
Rechter Leo van Gijn wilde vooral van de bewindsman en het Departement van Luchtvaart horen waarom het eerste artikel van de verleende vergunning alle ruimte biedt aan de luchtvaartmaatschappij

Reply #1468 on: January 29, 2008, 01:53:32 PM »   Reply with quote
 
I knew I'd seen it...Jossy used Gijn...the other paper used Rijn...From what I've seen the Gijn family is influential and has a history in The netherlands...

#471 on: June 21, 2007, 11:39:26 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/6/21/


Quote
Cas yena cu camara, yen di cacho brabo y rondona cu prikkel draad…
LORENZO VAN GIJN DETENI PA PLANTACION GRANDI
DI MARIHUANA NA SAVANETA

ORANJESTAD(AAN):Lorenzo van Gijn no ta un desconoci di polis. Den e bishitanan cu e Team Bijzondere Projecten a haci na diferente lugar, su cas no tabata un excepcion.







Now, if Lorenzo is related to any of these people..that would be a 5th suspect related to a high judicial official....that makes a lot of pieces fit...if true.  No way to find out for sure...high official...leave Lorenzo alone...yep.  Of course, that makes Lorenzo back in the mix with Freddy again.   ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 04, 2008, 11:10:02 AM
Now, why are we talking about Steve's father?  I have lost the gist of this conversation. Sorry.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 04, 2008, 11:17:06 AM
Morning Lala's...I just saw that quote 'high ranking judicial' and another that said 'one is the son of a judge, the other the son of a lawyer'....here we go again!

Also, after reading a pile of DEA Caribbean News lately to see if anything would fit with the May 2005 timeline, I have been wondering just why only ALE were involved in the big bust last year.

Drugs are the purpose of the FPO,or so we are told. Wiretapping to do with drugs etc. So does all this info get fed to ALE?

Remember too that Lorenzo 'talked' to a judge and walked!

Got to think on all the Lorenzo/wiretapping possibilities for a bit...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 04, 2008, 11:21:13 AM
Anyone know the name of SGC's father?

Tick tock, the hammer & the block.


Fin

This was the first post I found on it....and it goes back to the time, Steve's arrest, when we thought Lorenzo could have been arrested...as I said...here we go again!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 04, 2008, 11:24:15 AM
Morning Lala's...I just saw that quote 'high ranking judicial' and another that said 'one is the son of a judge, the other the son of a lawyer'....here we go again!

Also, after reading a pile of DEA Caribbean News lately to see if anything would fit with the May 2005 timeline, I have been wondering just why only ALE were involved in the big bust last year.

Drugs are the purpose of the FPO,or so we are told. Wiretapping to do with drugs etc. So does all this info get fed to ALE?

Remember too that Lorenzo 'talked' to a judge and walked!

Got to think on all the Lorenzo/wiretapping possibilities for a bit...

I was thinking the same thing...Lorenzo's being able to have a "private" meeting with a judge and then be released was a curious turn of events, but in light of the "high judicial official" it would make sense that given the corruption he would be let go.  A favor of sorts.  Wonder who the judge was that met with Lorenzo?  I have put in a few inquiries with some others...will see what turns up.   Since Steve is considered the 4th suspect we are again at that stage of Freddy or Lorenzo as the 5th.   :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 04, 2008, 11:32:43 AM
I wish COLUMBO would chime in on how this would all fit. He believes Lorenzo is the other singing card. I did understand that much.

Paulus was never really a judge or was he? He was a lawyer....Help!!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 04, 2008, 12:10:24 PM
Yes, I think Colombo does think Lorenzo is one of the singing cards.  I am still waiting for that one to play out.  I think he thinks Lorenzo was the card the Arawaks held and did not play.  Now, as usual, we are back to who are the Arawaks?   ALE or the Aruban people?  3 years and I am even less convinced.  Same with the Babylonians and Sumerian references.  It's all what you believe to be true...Shango without a codex is nothing. LOL


Oh Shango?? Please give us an audience.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on March 04, 2008, 12:45:12 PM
Now, why are we talking about Steve's father?  I have lost the gist of this conversation. Sorry.

I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.


Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 04, 2008, 01:01:48 PM
Hi Fin...Steve's reason for his arrest just doesn't make sense...there were a lot of posts at the time of another arrest, which officially didn't happen.

Most early posters believed this to be Lorenzo and also Max Arendz being bought in.

Last I checked, a few weeks back, with a very reliable SM poster Max is in the Netherlands.

This is why we have been trying to check on Lorenzo and the posts about a judge from Curacao. Jossy said van Gijn...the other papers said van Rijn...I have never seen so much mixing of names and I am sure it is intentional!

We were told that the judges were from there as they would be more impartial. Well Kermit's little list shows just the opposite!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 04, 2008, 01:19:56 PM
If we look at it as two separate stories...is it possible for Freddy to be Simian's 5th. suspect and for Lorenzo to be Shango's singing card?

I bet I've already asked this before....LOL



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 04, 2008, 01:47:53 PM
If we look at it as two separate stories...is it possible for Freddy to be Simian's 5th. suspect and for Lorenzo to be Shango's singing card?

I bet I've already asked this before....LOL



Of course. LOL  I can see that working.  Mum, do you still have the link to the 4th suspect and 5th suspect info that was released at the time?  The one that talks of which one of them was the son of a high ranking official?  We need to narrow that one down so we know which one of these guys we are looking at.  I am thinking if it says "son"  it would not be Lorenzo, since his father is dead...I know, I know.  :roll:

Most people do not want to separate Simian and Shango...since they would snipe at each other on occasion, but essentially there are two different stories.  One story concerns the information and happenings at the time and the other about the corruption.  They are different...any way you look at it...it is only when they talk to each other that you can confuse the two issues.  My opinion, which is basically useless at this point.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 04, 2008, 01:56:04 PM
If we look at it as two separate stories...is it possible for Freddy to be Simian's 5th. suspect and for Lorenzo to be Shango's singing card?

I bet I've already asked this before....LOL



Of course. LOL  I can see that working.  Mum, do you still have the link to the 4th suspect and 5th suspect info that was released at the time?  The one that talks of which one of them was the son of a high ranking official?  We need to narrow that one down so we know which one of these guys we are looking at.  I am thinking if it says "son"  it would not be Lorenzo, since his father is dead...I know, I know.  :roll:

Most people do not want to separate Simian and Shango...since they would snipe at each other on occasion, but essentially there are two different stories.  One story concerns the information and happenings at the time and the other about the corruption.  They are different...any way you look at it...it is only when they talk to each other that you can confuse the two issues.  My opinion, which is basically useless at this point.

Was it the Riehl World one? I think it was...will look really quick...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 04, 2008, 02:10:58 PM
From Kermit's post in the other thread:

"The justices on the Aruban bench:

mw. mr. E. Angela august 1st 2000
mw. mr. P. de Bruin august 1st 2000
mr. J.S. Kuiperdal
mr. P.A.H. Lemaire august 1st 2002
mr. C. Slothouber august 1st 2001
## mr. F.J.F. Gerard march 1st 2005
## mr. H.E. de Boer august 1st 2005
## mr. J.A. van Voorthuizen august 1st 2005



The justices on the Curacao bench

mw. mr. M.K. Asscheman-Versluis (since august 1st 1999)
mr. J. de Boer august 1st 1998
@ mr. R.A. Th. M. Dekkers after 2004 because at that time he was judge in The Hague
mr. W. Foppen (since august 1st 1999)
mr. L. van Gijn august 1st 2000
@ mr. L. Groefsema after 2004 because mr. L. Groefsema was a judge in Assen in 2004
@ mw. mr. L.C. Hoefdraad after 2004 because mw. mr. L.C. Hoefdraad at that time was a judge in the Hague
@ mr. S.M. Lieshout after 2004 because mr. S.M. Lieshout was a judge in Utrecht
mr. B.M. Mezas

@ mr. R.F.B. van Zutphen after 2004 because mr. R.F.B. van Zutphen was a judge in Amsterdam
mr. M.W. Zandbergen since may 1st 2000
@ mr. J.Th. Wit after 2004 because in 2004 he was DA in Dordrecht
mr. P. Wagemakers august 1st 2000
@ mr. R.W.J. van Veen after 2004 because in 2004 he was still a judge in Breda
mw. mr. M.M.M. Tillema september 1st 2000
@ mr. J.R. Sijmonsma after 2004
mw. mr. E.A. Saleh since august 1st 1999
mr. G.E.M. Polkamp november 1st 2000
@ mw. mr. M.H.H.A. Moes 2004 or later because in 2004 she was a judge in Almelo
mr. M.L.A. Angela since march 1st 2000
mr. A.N.G.N.E. Mijnssen since 1996, from november 2000 onwards part-time judge
mr. F.P. Wiel re-appointed for 3 more years on august 1st 1999
@ mr. H.A.C. Smid (since march 1st 2005)
## mr. J.M.P. Drijkoningen (since august 1st 2005)
## mw. mr. A.M.P. Geelhoed (since august 1st 2005)
## mr. K.J. Haarhuis (since august 1st 2005)
## mw. mr. L. de Kerpel-van de Poel (since august 1st 2005)
## mw. mr. A.S. Gratama (since august 1st 2005)
## mr. H.L. Wattel (since september 1st 2005)
Mr. P. W. van Schendel re-appointed for 3 more years on august 1st 2005

## mr. E.M. van der Bunt february 1st 2005
## mr. dr. J.P. de Haan february 1st 2005
@ mr. J.H. Bosch august 1st 2004
@ mr. E.P. van Unen august 1st 2004
@ mr. drs. G.C.C. Lewin august 1st 2004
@ mr W.J. Noordhuizen august 1st 2004
@ mr J.Th. Drop september 1st 2004

From the 45 justices working for the Court of Aruba and the Antilles:

11 started working there after Paul van der Sloot became a suspect
15 started working there much later than Paul van der Sloot

Only 19 might be friends of Paul van der Sloot and of them 14 were Curacao justices."

=============

46 sacrifices.

The judges serve three year contracts. Three years from 2005 would be now. A new(?) group of judges rotated in(unless they may serve more than once).

The 47th would break the cycle of conspiracy.

The conspiracy will then fall.

Judges....

The crooks, on Aruba or even in the United States, cannot flourish without corrupt lawyers and judges.

Look at all those businesses that people own there. They are washing machines.

Maybe PVDS is a lawyer for the dark side.

While I do not think drug trafficking is the answer that we seek, it is a piece of the puzzle. There are many pieces. All important.

We must shine a light on those that rule the night.

Why do the cowboys turn their heads? Me thinks the ABC's get their clothes washed there too. Easier than on the Hill.


Fin

looks like van der sloot is missing from the justices on the aruban bench


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 04, 2008, 03:08:24 PM
JE......Very interesting...I wonder if a Judge in training would be included...and I wonder if Kermit would know...he is a very clever little frog...LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 04, 2008, 03:17:36 PM
JE......Very interesting...I wonder if a Judge in training would be included...and I wonder if Kermit would know...he is a very clever little frog...LOL

on this link

http://almanak.overheid.nl/2203/Lid/

he is mentioned as LID which means MEMBER
If you look at for example curacao you ll see that there is also a function of
PLAATSVERVANGEND LID = REPLACEMENT MEMBER
seems like he was a judge after all  ::MonkeyConfused::

    * mw. mr. E.M.D. Angela
    * mw. mr. P. de Bruin
    * mr. J.S. Kuiperdal
    * mr. P.A.H. Lemaire
    * mr. P.A.J. van der Sloot
    * mr. C. Slothouber


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 04, 2008, 03:20:13 PM
from this page
http://almanak.overheid.nl/2201.html
you can see the member of the bench for the other islands
i cant find a date for the document though


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 04, 2008, 03:23:51 PM
Not what I was looking for...but couldn't resist because of the date and the poster....

January 11, 2008, 11:00:53 AM
From June 5th 2005….8.34AM …Arbeej

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?t=2244&page=6



quote:
"* One of the 3 original "persons of interest" is the son of a Judge on the island of Aruba..."

This was actually confirmed for us by an Aruban news reporter. He confirmed that one is the son of a judge, the other the son of a lawyer. It was not, however, clarified as to whether their Dads and the rest of the families live and work on Aruba. The three boys, though born in other countries, are legal residents of Aruba. I do not Know long they have lived there, but they are indeed legal residents.                   


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 04, 2008, 03:32:53 PM
JE......Very interesting...I wonder if a Judge in training would be included...and I wonder if Kermit would know...he is a very clever little frog...LOL

on this link

http://almanak.overheid.nl/2203/Lid/

he is mentioned as LID which means MEMBER
If you look at for example curacao you ll see that there is also a function of
PLAATSVERVANGEND LID = REPLACEMENT MEMBER
seems like he was a judge after all  ::MonkeyConfused::

    * mw. mr. E.M.D. Angela
    * mw. mr. P. de Bruin
    * mr. J.S. Kuiperdal
    * mr. P.A.H. Lemaire
    * mr. P.A.J. van der Sloot
    * mr. C. Slothouber


JE...I couldn't open the link...there is 6 on your list and 8 on Kermit's...do you know why? The first 4 are the same...TIA

And if he was a Judge, then he would be 'a fallen judge'....where is COLUMBO? ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 04, 2008, 03:35:24 PM
JE......Very interesting...I wonder if a Judge in training would be included...and I wonder if Kermit would know...he is a very clever little frog...LOL

on this link

http://almanak.overheid.nl/2203/Lid/

he is mentioned as LID which means MEMBER
If you look at for example curacao you ll see that there is also a function of
PLAATSVERVANGEND LID = REPLACEMENT MEMBER
seems like he was a judge after all  ::MonkeyConfused::

    * mw. mr. E.M.D. Angela
    * mw. mr. P. de Bruin
    * mr. J.S. Kuiperdal
    * mr. P.A.H. Lemaire
    * mr. P.A.J. van der Sloot
    * mr. C. Slothouber


JE...I couldn't open the link...there is 6 on your list and 8 on Kermit's...do you know why? The first 4 are the same...TIA

And if he was a Judge, then he would be 'a fallen judge'....where is COLUMBO? ::MonkeyDance::

The ones on kermits list with ## in front of their names were apointed after jan 2005


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 04, 2008, 03:45:09 PM
Mum can't you open either of these links?

http://almanak.overheid.nl/2203/Lid/

http://almanak.overheid.nl/2201.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on March 04, 2008, 03:49:17 PM
Now, why are we talking about Steve's father?  I have lost the gist of this conversation. Sorry.

I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.


Fin

Do you have this picture, Fin?
I do not recall ever seeing one with the two of them together.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 04, 2008, 03:57:19 PM
Mum can't you open either of these links?

http://almanak.overheid.nl/2203/Lid/

http://almanak.overheid.nl/2201.html

JE..I opened the second one, but can't read Dutch...LOL

Just wanted to see how the numbers added up with your inclusion of Paulus and Kermit's list...if it would make 46....or 47....LOL...confused myself...

All the rain has turned to ice and my computer is sloowww, so hopefully will be back in the morning!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 04, 2008, 04:09:22 PM
Mum can't you open either of these links?

http://almanak.overheid.nl/2203/Lid/

http://almanak.overheid.nl/2201.html

JE..I opened the second one, but can't read Dutch...LOL

Just wanted to see how the numbers added up with your inclusion of Paulus and Kermit's list...if it would make 46....or 47....LOL...confused myself...

All the rain has turned to ice and my computer is sloowww, so hopefully will be back in the morning!

On the page of the second link there are links to the names of people that are in the court of the dutch antilles and aruba

i counted them and there wre 35 names plus 2 griffiers(registrar?)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on March 04, 2008, 04:57:47 PM
Now, why are we talking about Steve's father?  I have lost the gist of this conversation. Sorry.

I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.


Fin

Do you have this picture, Fin?
I do not recall ever seeing one with the two of them together.
......not Fin, but here is one...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/dvr01/x1pnprgmi5o51c53k3wlvbvxjd5i8j.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 04, 2008, 05:15:14 PM
I wish COLUMBO would chime in on how this would all fit. He believes Lorenzo is the other singing card. I did understand that much.

Paulus was never really a judge or was he? He was a lawyer....Help!!!!


DH & PVDS:
The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:26 pm
The maze of Babylon is very difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent

sounds alot ike a game of cards!
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

PVDS & DH:
Even if you play cards (see above-"cards") in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.

A sacrifice will be made to spare the police

PVDS & DH:
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:27 pm
DirtyHand and the fallen judge may not be crucified

PVDS & DH:
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played

PVDS & DH:
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.

The lamb is a scapegoat.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 04, 2008, 05:20:59 PM
Mum:

This is 'being a judge:'

Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.

Here is the game of cards:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.


Some elders of the game, not just of babylon (Arawak game!) walk in older circles......



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on March 04, 2008, 05:24:37 PM
Thanks Bleached,

That is the pic I remember. I have not seen that pic in a long time, from a different beach. I think a mole or two might have seen it though. ::MonkeyWink::


Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on March 04, 2008, 05:48:46 PM
Now, why are we talking about Steve's father?  I have lost the gist of this conversation. Sorry.

I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.


Fin

Do you have this picture, Fin?
I do not recall ever seeing one with the two of them together.
......not Fin, but here is one...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/dvr01/x1pnprgmi5o51c53k3wlvbvxjd5i8j.jpg)

Quincy?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on March 04, 2008, 05:53:22 PM
Thanks Bleached,

That is the pic I remember. I have not seen that pic in a long time, from a different beach. I think a mole or two might have seen it though. ::MonkeyWink::


Fin

That is NOT Steve Croes in that photo, it's Quincy.  They do have a similar look but two different people.

This is Quincy - not Steve

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/quincy.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 04, 2008, 05:54:38 PM
Now, why are we talking about Steve's father?  I have lost the gist of this conversation. Sorry.

I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.


Fin

Do you have this picture, Fin?
I do not recall ever seeing one with the two of them together.

I am still looking for something that tells me Steve Croes father was a high ranking official. I have never found anything that said this...I am really curious to know for sure.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on March 04, 2008, 06:12:34 PM
Now, why are we talking about Steve's father?  I have lost the gist of this conversation. Sorry.

I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.


Fin

Do you have this picture, Fin?
I do not recall ever seeing one with the two of them together.

I am still looking for something that tells me Steve Croes father was a high ranking official. I have never found anything that said this...I am really curious to know for sure.

IMO, that was incorrectly reported in the scramble to identify who the person was with the initials, S.G.C.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/17/breaking-news-4th-person-arrested-in-natalee-holloway-case/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on March 04, 2008, 07:29:50 PM
Thanks Bleached,

That is the pic I remember. I have not seen that pic in a long time, from a different beach. I think a mole or two might have seen it though. ::MonkeyWink::


Fin

That is NOT Steve Croes in that photo, it's Quincy.  They do have a similar look but two different people.

This is Quincy - not Steve

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/quincy.jpg)


Yikes ! Sorry to have made a mistake.......I have always been lead to believe that was Steve Croes.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 04, 2008, 07:37:09 PM
Hi Fin...Steve's reason for his arrest just doesn't make sense...there were a lot of posts at the time of another arrest, which officially didn't happen.

Most early posters believed this to be Lorenzo and also Max Arendz being bought in.

Last I checked, a few weeks back, with a very reliable SM poster Max is in the Netherlands.

which Max?

Max Arends, approx age 20 in 2005

Max/Maxito Arendsz, age 26 in 2005

SM/august 2005
Peeps: I am the owner of Boost Unit website and the webmaster of the speedshop. I don't know what your deal is with us or anything. We don't have nor want anything to do with some stupid teens, americans, dutch, surinam or any nationality whatsoever involved with this annoying case. We don't know that teen Joran nor his 3 chocolate factory buddies. They are not of our age bracket. We are some motorsports fans and that's all there is to it.

omega: Hiya, Peeps! Welcome to the Scared Monkeys, Natalee Holloway THEORY & SPECULATION FORUM. I've often wondered why so few webmasters ever seem to notice when dozens of hits unexpected come to their websites from unexpected places. Hope you enjoy your visit here, I suppose you're right and that "The Butler Did It!!" will soon be proven. Can you please tell me to whom you refer when you wrote "...Joran and his three chocolate factory buddies." Who are these 3 individuals? Thanks so much.

Peeps: I knew about this site from the newspapers, plus its name is pretty "catchy". I got my monthly referrals report today (Aug 1) and what do I see? More than 50 referrals from the famous NH connected "scared monkeys". The purpose of this particular speculation forum is all good. I just don't want our names stickied on the internet, especially something that we have no part in. This is not the first time that somebody wants to connect us with the fatass dutchy. I did a typo, I meant 2 chocolate buddies.

karen: hi, peeps! no disrespect intended! just posting the trail that led to maxito, as we've been told he is lorenzo's, aka locoman's, alibi. could you share a little re lorenzo, just so we have everyone straight? maybe you can help us, & we can help you? thx!

Peeps: Maxito is one of my best friends. We go everywhere together. This rumor also spread on the street. Frankly we were pretty scared about this false accusations. Long story short, the detectives already know about this and have straightened out this false rumor. He doesn't know this guy Lorenzo. Locoman came once with his mom to the shop to get some quotations for parts for his Quad racer. that's it. We don't know locoman nor his following. Also we don't want to know anything about him. We stick to our motto " minding our own business"

Ms DarthVada: I thought he meant 3, meaning, deepak, satish and freddy. haha

karen: thank you, peeps! just to be sure..we are talking about the maxito arendsz, who is in his 20's? i know there is also a max arends, could that be the one they meant? i REALLY appreciate you taking the time to answer.

Peeps: He's 26. The same as me. He's the same person. Maxito = Little Max in papiamento. A childhood name that got stuck till now. I just notified one of the detectives again about this piece, just in case some false accusations come up. Just taking precautions. If there are more questions I can ask them as far as I can. You can put a separate thread or something or email.

Oxygenated Lady: Peeps - why are you so angry??

Peeps: Some people on this forum are sooooooooooo friggin Ignorant, it's unbelievable. It's like they don't know anything around the world. They have no clue about why certain things go the way they go over here and don't want to understand either. That's the main problem on this forum. Guys that's the way we do it over here. It's a different law system, understand it. Don't rebel against, accept it. I wonder if it's this type of arrogance and ignorance that so hated about some americans in the world. Expand your mind with real things instead of reading Shango BS that goes nowhere.

new girl: I understand your frustration, Peeps. But our frustration isn't much different than yours. We know we have no clue why things have gone the way they have over there. We are begging to understand.

eleye: let me tell you why...because a criminal element is present and puts big money into their economy...exposing that means ruining that island and that's why the aruban people are mad, scared or indifferent. this case exposes the belly of the beast and they are getting nervous that an island that runs on tourism and crime, will crumble.

Peeps: You are 15 years late. You know who the belly were?
Marlboro Company
Citi Bank
ABN AMRO Bank
Hotel Chains.
American / European bank
Mr. Pablo Escobar.

There were even some White Citations with bald eagle encriptions on them. Who can that be. Everybody gained from the small washing machine with white beaches. There is a reason why I tell you why there won't be any embargoes or economic restrictions.

a couple weeks later:

Peeps: Alright guys, I just found out a little detail: There are 2 Max's on the island. But....the difference lies in the last name: Max Arends - @20 years old. And associated with Joran. Max Arendsz - 26 years old. Owner of the Speed Shop and has no clue who Joran and his posse is. Somehow, the names got mixed up and misleading info spread like wild fire. Anyhow, back on topic.

followed by:

Peeps: From my uber reliable source, the local detectives searched his house twice already, but what to do if you can't find anything.

The police know about the parties, etc etc. And they also agree that LVR is a little kwak kwak in the head.

Anyhow, I got this pic from a source of mine, which I think will be the only pic you'll be able to find of him.

This is from his van, and guess who's driving.

So there, I helped you guys a little. I hope I don't get shafted like many helpful Arubians have been misused / abused in the past by los americanos.

http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/7466/piwannabee6fq.jpg

Don't ask me for more.
Don't ask me for higher resolution.
Don't ask me for bigger pictures.
I still stand by my opinion that you guys are losing your time with this fellow.
See you next time




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on March 04, 2008, 07:56:57 PM
Now, why are we talking about Steve's father?  I have lost the gist of this conversation. Sorry.

I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.


Fin

Do you have this picture, Fin?
I do not recall ever seeing one with the two of them together.

I am still looking for something that tells me Steve Croes father was a high ranking official. I have never found anything that said this...I am really curious to know for sure.

Lala's I recall the uncle being retired police.....don't recall seeing anything printed about the Croes father. He was from Curacao so possibly there?
>>>>SNIP

Croes' uncle Rufo Solognier, a retired police officer, ........

http://tinyurl.com/396rbv


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on March 04, 2008, 08:06:53 PM
Actually Uncle was Police Chief Inspector according to this source.

>>>>>SNIP


PENHAUL: He`s a 26-year-old, originally born on Curacao, but he has lived on Aruba for many years now. He`s a recent divorcee. He`s the father of a 2-year-old son. He was living in the town of Santa Cruz. That`s a town in the center of the island near the national park. He was living at that house with his grandfather and his grandmother, living next door to his uncle. His uncle is a retired police chief inspector, Nancy.

http://tinyurl.com/359bj8


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 04, 2008, 08:40:30 PM
Hi Fin...Steve's reason for his arrest just doesn't make sense...there were a lot of posts at the time of another arrest, which officially didn't happen.

Most early posters believed this to be Lorenzo and also Max Arendz being bought in.

Last I checked, a few weeks back, with a very reliable SM poster Max is in the Netherlands.

which Max?

Max Arends, approx age 20 in 2005

Max/Maxito Arendsz, age 26 in 2005

SM/august 2005
Peeps: I am the owner of Boost Unit website and the webmaster of the speedshop. I don't know what your deal is with us or anything. We don't have nor want anything to do with some stupid teens, americans, dutch, surinam or any nationality whatsoever involved with this annoying case. We don't know that teen Joran nor his 3 chocolate factory buddies. They are not of our age bracket. We are some motorsports fans and that's all there is to it.

omega: Hiya, Peeps! Welcome to the Scared Monkeys, Natalee Holloway THEORY & SPECULATION FORUM. I've often wondered why so few webmasters ever seem to notice when dozens of hits unexpected come to their websites from unexpected places. Hope you enjoy your visit here, I suppose you're right and that "The Butler Did It!!" will soon be proven. Can you please tell me to whom you refer when you wrote "...Joran and his three chocolate factory buddies." Who are these 3 individuals? Thanks so much.

Peeps: I knew about this site from the newspapers, plus its name is pretty "catchy". I got my monthly referrals report today (Aug 1) and what do I see? More than 50 referrals from the famous NH connected "scared monkeys". The purpose of this particular speculation forum is all good. I just don't want our names stickied on the internet, especially something that we have no part in. This is not the first time that somebody wants to connect us with the fatass dutchy. I did a typo, I meant 2 chocolate buddies.

karen: hi, peeps! no disrespect intended! just posting the trail that led to maxito, as we've been told he is lorenzo's, aka locoman's, alibi. could you share a little re lorenzo, just so we have everyone straight? maybe you can help us, & we can help you? thx!

Peeps: Maxito is one of my best friends. We go everywhere together. This rumor also spread on the street. Frankly we were pretty scared about this false accusations. Long story short, the detectives already know about this and have straightened out this false rumor. He doesn't know this guy Lorenzo. Locoman came once with his mom to the shop to get some quotations for parts for his Quad racer. that's it. We don't know locoman nor his following. Also we don't want to know anything about him. We stick to our motto " minding our own business"

Ms DarthVada: I thought he meant 3, meaning, deepak, satish and freddy. haha

karen: thank you, peeps! just to be sure..we are talking about the maxito arendsz, who is in his 20's? i know there is also a max arends, could that be the one they meant? i REALLY appreciate you taking the time to answer.

Peeps: He's 26. The same as me. He's the same person. Maxito = Little Max in papiamento. A childhood name that got stuck till now. I just notified one of the detectives again about this piece, just in case some false accusations come up. Just taking precautions. If there are more questions I can ask them as far as I can. You can put a separate thread or something or email.

Oxygenated Lady: Peeps - why are you so angry??

Peeps: Some people on this forum are sooooooooooo friggin Ignorant, it's unbelievable. It's like they don't know anything around the world. They have no clue about why certain things go the way they go over here and don't want to understand either. That's the main problem on this forum. Guys that's the way we do it over here. It's a different law system, understand it. Don't rebel against, accept it. I wonder if it's this type of arrogance and ignorance that so hated about some americans in the world. Expand your mind with real things instead of reading Shango BS that goes nowhere.

new girl: I understand your frustration, Peeps. But our frustration isn't much different than yours. We know we have no clue why things have gone the way they have over there. We are begging to understand.

eleye: let me tell you why...because a criminal element is present and puts big money into their economy...exposing that means ruining that island and that's why the aruban people are mad, scared or indifferent. this case exposes the belly of the beast and they are getting nervous that an island that runs on tourism and crime, will crumble.

Peeps: You are 15 years late. You know who the belly were?
Marlboro Company
Citi Bank
ABN AMRO Bank
Hotel Chains.
American / European bank
Mr. Pablo Escobar.

There were even some White Citations with bald eagle encriptions on them. Who can that be. Everybody gained from the small washing machine with white beaches. There is a reason why I tell you why there won't be any embargoes or economic restrictions.

a couple weeks later:

Peeps: Alright guys, I just found out a little detail: There are 2 Max's on the island. But....the difference lies in the last name: Max Arends - @20 years old. And associated with Joran. Max Arendsz - 26 years old. Owner of the Speed Shop and has no clue who Joran and his posse is. Somehow, the names got mixed up and misleading info spread like wild fire. Anyhow, back on topic.

followed by:

Peeps: From my uber reliable source, the local detectives searched his house twice already, but what to do if you can't find anything.

The police know about the parties, etc etc. And they also agree that LVR is a little kwak kwak in the head.

Anyhow, I got this pic from a source of mine, which I think will be the only pic you'll be able to find of him.

This is from his van, and guess who's driving.

So there, I helped you guys a little. I hope I don't get shafted like many helpful Arubians have been misused / abused in the past by los americanos.

http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/7466/piwannabee6fq.jpg

Don't ask me for more.
Don't ask me for higher resolution.
Don't ask me for bigger pictures.
I still stand by my opinion that you guys are losing your time with this fellow.
See you next time




Anyhow, I got this pic from a source of mine, which I think will be the only pic you'll be able to find of him.

This is from his van, and guess who's driving.

So there, I helped you guys a little. I hope I don't get shafted like many helpful Arubians have been misused / abused in the past by los americanos.

(http://i32.tinypic.com/72d094.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on March 04, 2008, 08:49:32 PM
MUM

In my opinion PVDS was a judge, "substitute" or "in training", but a judge.

scaredmonkeys.com/2007/06/18/scared-monkeys-vide (http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/06/18/scared-monkeys-vide)
PROCES-VERBAAL

We, Roland Ramiro TROMP and Clyde Anthony BURKE, respectively inspector and sergeant first class with the Korps Politie Aruba and attached to the Section Often Occurring Crimes, state the following.

On June 18th 2005 at approximately 18.30 hours, we interviewed as a witness the man who when asked for his name and details, stated to be, Paulus Antonius Petrus Johanna van der SLOOT born in the Netherlands on February 15th 1952, occupation judge (Joint Court) and living at ADDRESS REMOVED in Aruba for further information.  snip

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/02/02/amigoe-paul-van-der-sloot-claims-damages/ (http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/02/02/amigoe-paul-van-der-sloot-claims-damages/)
Amigoe: Paul van der Sloot claims damages
 
Amigoe; February 2, 2006: Paul van der Sloot claims damages

Weren’t there others that were wrongfully arrested in part due to statements and comments given by those that would benefit from Paul Van der Sloot’s claim? Many wonder what ever became of the two security guards and why they are still considered suspects. Interesting how Paulus gets his claims heard but why is it not the same for the first individuals that were arrested in the Natalee Holloway disappearance?

ARUBA âₔ Paul van der Sloot claims damages from the National Government of Aruba, because he was wrongfully arrested and detained in the Holloway-case. The case was handled behind closed doors by the court sitting in chambers last Monday. The judge will continue the case at the end of this month.

Van der Sloot indicated in a telephone conversation with the Amigoe that he doesn’t want to tell the size of the amount he is claiming. He did say though that during the hearing, the chief public prosecutor Karin Janssen substantiated the Public Prosecutor’s (OM) opinion on the claim, but he didn’t go into details. The OM didn’t want to give any comments. Van der Sloot emphasized that having been wrongfully arrested, is not under discussion. “The Judge had already decided that this was the case”, and based on that he thinks that he can claim damages. During the hearing in the Judge’s chambers, Van der Sloot’s lawyer Arie Swaen indicated that his client’s social position and career were damaged due to negative publicity his family had to deal with during the Holloway-case. Question is whether his case is built strong enough. Luis de Lannooy, presiding judge of the common Court of Justice where Van der Sloot was working as substitute judge, mentioned before Van der Sloot was arrested that his work was not satisfactory and that his contract would definitely not be extended. In addition, the publicity had to do with his son and his wife Anita had consciously sought publicity a few times. The judge heard the lawyer as well as the OM and said that he will look into the information. The parties will meet again on February 27th. It is not sure yet whether the judge will give verdict on that day. “It can be that the judge comes with another proposal. We’ll wait and see”, said Van der Sloot.


snipped from:
http://arubadirtypolice.blogspot.com/2006/12/diplomatic-immunity-for-van-der-sloots.html  (http://arubadirtypolice.blogspot.com/2006/12/diplomatic-immunity-for-van-der-sloots.html)
4.5 A judge shall disqualify himself or herself from participating in any proceedings in which the judge is unable to decide the matter impartially or in which a reasonable, fair-minded and informed person might believe that the judge is unable to decide the matter impartially.

Paulus van der Sloot, being an attorney and a substitute Judge, continues to be a member of the same fraternal body as Justice Wit. This fact alone should have caused Justice Wit to disqualify himself from making any decisions in this case. They both served on the Joint Court at the same time.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 04, 2008, 08:53:40 PM
Oh yes, the good old blue van with all the stuff painted on the side.  I remember the first time it was posted on SM...caused quite a stir.  Early posters on FP alluded to that van many times.  I think some of the convo is posted somewhere in here. Maybe when we get that index finished we can put our hands on it quicker.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on March 04, 2008, 09:33:49 PM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Arrests%20in%20the%20case/manincar.jpg)
His Uncle is Rufo Solognier retired ALE who he was living with.

The party boat that employs Croes docks near the Holiday Inn where Holloway was staying.

Croes' uncle Rufo Solognier, a retired police officer, described his nephew as a quiet divorced man with a 2-year-old son. Solognier said he did not know of any connection between Croes and the three others.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/18/missing.teen/index.html




CNN spoke with his next-door neighbor, who identified himself as Rufo Solognier. He identified the person arrested as his nephew Steve Croes and described him as a quiet, divorced father of a 2-year-old son.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/17/missing.teen/index.html



RUFO SOLOGNIER, STEVE CROES' UNCLE: No, not for a week.

VAN SUSTEREN: What is your...

SOLOGNIER: My wife went to the courtroom this morning.

VAN SUSTEREN: Right. What did they say in court today?

SOLOGNIER: Nothing. Nothing. They can't say nothing. He can't speak to her.

VAN SUSTEREN: They won't let Steve Croes talk to his...

SOLOGNIER: No, nobody.

VAN SUSTEREN: Why not?

SOLOGNIER: I don't know. I have to ask the lawyer.

VAN SUSTEREN: Steve is not your son, he's your nephew, right?

SOLOGNIER: He's the nephew of my wife.

VAN SUSTEREN: Where is Steve's parents?

SOLOGNIER: In Curacao.

VAN SUSTEREN: And sorry, he lives next door with his grandmother?

SOLOGNIER: Grandmother, grandfather.

VAN SUSTEREN: With your wife's mother and father then?

SOLOGNIER: Yes, yes, yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: And his grandparents. Any idea
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160562,00.html

all the info


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on March 04, 2008, 09:41:54 PM
That picture above looks more like the Quincy guy than it does SC.......IMO. Any wonder for the confusion????//


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on March 04, 2008, 10:50:59 PM
That picture above looks more like the Quincy guy than it does SC.......IMO. Any wonder for the confusion????//
They look alot alike..But that quincy guy has a big chin..MO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Magnolia on March 05, 2008, 01:35:55 AM
Now, why are we talking about Steve's father?  I have lost the gist of this conversation. Sorry.

I think Steve Croes father is or was a musician on Curacao.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on March 05, 2008, 08:54:10 AM
Now, why are we talking about Steve's father?  I have lost the gist of this conversation. Sorry.

I think Steve Croes father is or was a musician on Curacao.
I have heard the same  also at the same time Amy Bradely became missing he was playing somewhere where she was.
 a  small group of us worked on this  together help me here!
Follow the Music  


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on March 05, 2008, 09:09:10 AM
I can't find my info name of the band  Yellow Jackets? Yellow  Hornets?
This was why I always thought SC was involved somehow.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on March 05, 2008, 09:19:44 AM
It is known that the last person seen with Amy in the early hours of the morning was a cruise ship band member of a group known as 'Blue Orchid' by the name of 'Yellow'...and, there were other crew members who spent time with Amy, as well...Katalin (from Hungary); Eduardo Cabrito (a waiter); David Cato (a waiter); and, Patrick (a waiter).

http://www.amybradley.net/amy-story.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 05, 2008, 10:30:39 AM
It is known that the last person seen with Amy in the early hours of the morning was a cruise ship band member of a group known as 'Blue Orchid' by the name of 'Yellow'...and, there were other crew members who spent time with Amy, as well...Katalin (from Hungary); Eduardo Cabrito (a waiter); David Cato (a waiter); and, Patrick (a waiter).

http://www.amybradley.net/amy-story.htm

And how does this connect Steve Croes father?  What is his father's name? Anyone?  What else do we have?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on March 05, 2008, 10:35:27 AM
It is known that the last person seen with Amy in the early hours of the morning was a cruise ship band member of a group known as 'Blue Orchid' by the name of 'Yellow'...and, there were other crew members who spent time with Amy, as well...Katalin (from Hungary); Eduardo Cabrito (a waiter); David Cato (a waiter); and, Patrick (a waiter).

http://www.amybradley.net/amy-story.htm

And how does this connect Steve Croes father?  What is his father's name? Anyone?  What else do we have?
I don't know how it would connect his father. Maybe the speculation started because of the confusion about the name of the band? The Yellow Jackets has/had a member by the name of Steve Croes.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 05, 2008, 10:55:41 AM
It is known that the last person seen with Amy in the early hours of the morning was a cruise ship band member of a group known as 'Blue Orchid' by the name of 'Yellow'...and, there were other crew members who spent time with Amy, as well...Katalin (from Hungary); Eduardo Cabrito (a waiter); David Cato (a waiter); and, Patrick (a waiter).

http://www.amybradley.net/amy-story.htm

And how does this connect Steve Croes father?  What is his father's name? Anyone?  What else do we have?
I don't know how it would connect his father. Maybe the speculation started because of the confusion about the name of the band? The Yellow Jackets has/had a member by the name of Steve Croes.

I see.  Thanks. Now I am confused between Orchids and Yellow Jackets. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on March 05, 2008, 11:34:05 AM
the Yellowjackets) highlights the talents of all, including bassist Jimmy Haslip with his Jaco Pastorius-like licks on the opener "Jacket Town," an exciting tune with Mintzer and Ford on the front-line. The nine tunes on this session (dedicated to Richard Tee) lean to the R&B side, with guests Robben Ford (guitar), Steve Croes (synclavier),


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 05, 2008, 12:47:37 PM
Maybe this one?

http://worldmusiccentral.org/artists/artist_page.php?id=2699

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=83776903


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on March 05, 2008, 01:51:35 PM
Maybe this one?

http://worldmusiccentral.org/artists/artist_page.php?id=2699

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=83776903

I think the Dushi Band is well known. If Hildward was related, that fact would have come out immediately, IMO.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 05, 2008, 02:26:33 PM
Maybe this one?

http://worldmusiccentral.org/artists/artist_page.php?id=2699

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=83776903

I think the Dushi Band is well known. If Hildward was related, that fact would have come out immediately, IMO.

You re probably right, but he's from 1962 so that could fit and the myspace pics of him show a resemblance to steve croes


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 05, 2008, 04:05:20 PM
Did the Yellow Jackets "hit the jackpot?"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 05, 2008, 04:11:59 PM
Mum this one is for you...

Deepak 6/10 PV:

To your question whether or not we pick up girls when we go for example to "Carlos & Charlies", I can state the following. Yes, we from time to time pick up girls there.

To your question whether these are local girls or tourists, I can state the following. They are tourists.
To your question as to who is the one who makes the first move towards the girls we are going to pick up, I can state the following. It usually is Joran or another friend with the name Freddy Zedan.

Joran and Freddy are the two that work the tourists.  Did someone say 5th suspect?

Still doing my homework assignment...LOL...and found this interesting in that Deepak was calling Freddy - Freddy Zedan this early in the case.

Would someone please look at the famous pic on page 80 and see if they think Freddy could be either Greek or Middle Eastern....Arambatzis-Greek...Zedan-Middle Eastern....only one Arambatzis found in Venezuela and NO Zedans in Aruba or Venezuela....Note to self...LOL...the Arends name didn't stick for long!

Joran over stresses in his book that Freddy only spoke Pap...no Dutch.

Too many names and too much mystery surrounds Freddy, including sneaking him out the back door when he was released, I need to find out more about Freddy!
  I believe there may well be a mid eastern link somehow, as well.  It may be on the peripheries of this case, but there.  Freddy as well as Depak and Satish look mid- eastern.  In fact the bros are from Suriname where the people are of mis-eastern origin.  These people are gaining a toe hold through secrete organizations such as the Lion (Lyons) or whatever secrete organizations.  The Lions per se would not be originally set up for that (I hope) but due to their secretive nature, it is evidentally a good place for them.  I am thinking here the more extremist groups use unsuspecting members to send and receive information in such a manner as to prohibit everyone knowing about it.  Over the years, from what I have been made to understand that membership in some of these older organizations has declined and new membership is not so particular in who they bring in.  It would depend upon the agenda of the local chapters of this, I would say and if they are promoted they would go district and later on to headquarters.
Over the years they have tried to associate themselves with Presidents on down the political latter.  Many upright citizens have joined but go only so far, to the first 2 or three levels where the real action is NOT.  Some have been given a high order membership just because their name makes the organizations look and smell legit.  That is not to say the participant is participating.  There have been US presidents associated with on campus organizations who later call on them.  Many people who join go inactive, but their names are still on the roll.      j/b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 05, 2008, 04:18:25 PM
Now, why are we talking about Steve's father?  I have lost the gist of this conversation. Sorry.

I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.


Fin

Do you have this picture, Fin?
I do not recall ever seeing one with the two of them together.
Palus Vandersloot has played music with Steve Croes father.  Both are instrument players.  They all know one another.  Also Steve Croes is a good party friend (at least) with Geoffrey Cromvroit.  His father was also a policeman for either 12 or 18 years.  There is a picture of GCV in the home of Vandersloots with the family watching tv it appears.  He was younger.
         Jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 05, 2008, 04:32:39 PM
Anyone know the name of SGC's father?

Tick tock, the hammer & the block.


Fin

Also I wonder if this uncle of S croes is Steves mother's brother as the Uncle (I guess it is the Uncle, or dad even) in the car when Greta interviewed Croes looks a lot like Bill Cromvroit's  picture when he was younger or at least the one posted on the I-net that may have been taken from ID when he was active as a cop or Security.  He has short grey hair now, I think and has gained up some weight from the shot I saw of him with GVC's mom walking towards their house. Steve and GVC are good friends.  Wonder if they are cousins from Steve's mother's side?  Steve Croes dad and Joran's dad know each other as they have played music together.  Croes father was a musician on the ship where Amy Bradly disappeard (if at the time of Bradley I do not know for sure.)  He plays guitar and Palus plays some type of horn or wind instrument at the least.  He is supposed to play music as a hobby though.  I believe he has other, more dangerous hobbies as  well from the way it is looking.       jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on March 05, 2008, 05:01:11 PM
Anyone know the name of SGC's father?

Tick tock, the hammer & the block.


Fin

Also I wonder if this uncle of S croes is Steves mother's brother as the Uncle (I guess it is the Uncle, or dad even) in the car when Greta interviewed Croes looks a lot like Bill Cromvroit's  picture when he was younger or at least the one posted on the I-net that may have been taken from ID when he was active as a cop or Security.  He has short grey hair now, I think and has gained up some weight from the shot I saw of him with GVC's mom walking towards their house. Steve and GVC are good friends.  Wonder if they are cousins from Steve's mother's side?  Steve Croes dad and Joran's dad know each other as they have played music together.  Croes father was a musician on the ship where Amy Bradly disappeard (if at the time of Bradley I do not know for sure.)  He plays guitar and Palus plays some type of horn or wind instrument at the least.  He is supposed to play music as a hobby though.  I believe he has other, more dangerous hobbies as  well from the way it is looking.       jack b

What is the name of Steve's father then?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on March 05, 2008, 05:22:31 PM
Now, why are we talking about Steve's father?  I have lost the gist of this conversation. Sorry.

I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.


Fin

Do you have this picture, Fin?
I do not recall ever seeing one with the two of them together.
Palus Vandersloot has played music with Steve Croes father.  Both are instrument players.  They all know one another.  Also Steve Croes is a good party friend (at least) with Geoffrey Cromvroit.  His father was also a policeman for either 12 or 18 years.  There is a picture of GCV in the home of Vandersloots with the family watching tv it appears.  He was younger.
         Jack b

Yeah, Quincy. That is why I was never asked about ID'ing pics. I stinky at it. lol.


Jack,

Nice one!

"Who else plays in the band?"

So, if they played in the band together, there might be a pic of them somewhere.

This thing has more actors than a bad Italian opera.


Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on March 05, 2008, 05:39:16 PM
 Hildward Croes ????
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/In%20the%20News/808789401_m-2.jpg)




(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/In%20the%20News/tmb-bradleyunsub1.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on March 05, 2008, 05:42:22 PM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/In%20the%20News/tmb-bradleyunsub1.jpg)

 Wanted for Questions for Amy Bradley





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on March 05, 2008, 05:43:08 PM
Thanks Bleached,

That is the pic I remember. I have not seen that pic in a long time, from a different beach. I think a mole or two might have seen it though. ::MonkeyWink::


Fin

A mole? Where?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on March 05, 2008, 05:44:07 PM
About Hildward Croes
..

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/In%20the%20News/808789401_m.jpg)

Born on the Caribbean island of Aruba on a 7th of September, Hildward Croes comes from a family of deep musical roots. His mother Ada is a singer and his father Maiky is a musician, singer, and choir director of their hometown church of Santa Cruz.

At an early age Mr. and Mrs. Croes encouraged their four sons to participate in the church choir on Sundays. This has been an important musical influence on the entire Croes family.

Since little Hildward was performing with different youth groups. A music-lover since birth, Hildward started playing the piano at home with the help of his father at the age of 8. After a few years playing by ear, Hildward began taking piano lessons with various music teachers on the island.

While forming part of the band that accompanied their church choir, Hildward and his brother Michael were invited to start the band Cryptus Confession. Cryptus quickly became one of the most popular pop-rock bands of Aruba, recording their number 1 hit: "Love Dream", part of a successful album of Hildward's original compositions. The album was recorded at Criteria Studios, Miami (studio famous in those days for recordings of The Bee Gees, Elton John, and The Eagles' Hotel California). With Cryptus Confession, Hildward toured Venezuela, South America, and other Caribbean islands extensively.

Croes received a scholarship from the Arubian government to study music at the renowned Berklee College of Music in Boston. While in Boston he received regular invitations to participate in recordings and to perform in concerts and recitals. He finished his bachelors degree in professional music and continued his post-graduate studies at Bowling Green State University, in Ohio. Hildward returned to Aruba with a master of music degree and became one of the most sought after arrangers and producers of the area. He produced numerous hits for artists and groups in Aruba, Curacao, and other Caribbean islands.

After he was comissioned to produce an album of Caribbean music for the record label Sonografica in Caracas, Venezuela, Hildward got noticed by the "merengue-king": Wilfrido Vargas. Vargas immediately signed him to be a part of his orchestra and produce records for his corporation. Hildward toured Europe, North, Central and South America with the Wilfrido Vargas orchestra playing keyboards and programming computer sequences for the live shows. During this time Croes also arranged and produced for many successful Latin American acts such as Las Chicas Del Can, Altamira Banda Show, Mandarina, Eddy Herrera, Roy Tavare, Micky Taveras, and of course Wilfrido Vargas.

Hildward earned an American Grammy Award nomination in the Latin-Tropical category for his work on the album Animacion by Wilfrido Vargas, which he co-produced. The same year he won first prize in the international competition of arrangements of the world-popular hit-song of that time: Lambada, which he arranged and produced for the popular ladies-group: Las Chicas Del Can.

Soon Croes got noticed by the world-famous latin singer-songwriter Juan Luis Guerra and was approached to be a part of his orchestra. For 5 years Hildward toured the world performing sold-out concerts playing keyboards and programming computer sequences for Juan Luis Guerra & 4.40.

Hildward Croes was awarded prestigious prizes and recognitions in his native Aruba on numerous occasions. Awards such as 'arranger of the year', 'musician of the year', 'music-man of the year', etc. He was awarded 'musician of the decade' and received the distinguished honor of being named 'man of the year' by the local press.

After Juan Luis Guerra retired from the music scene for a few years in the mid 1990s, Croes chose to return to his native Aruba, where he was once again one of the most popular producers on the island, as well as a regular performer in local shows, night-clubs, hotels and casinos.

In 1997 Hildward received a call from his old friend Chichi Peralta who invited him to be a part of his then newly formed project: Son Familia. He met and established a strong friendship with Chichi Peralta who was one of the main percussionist of Juan Luis Guerra & 4.40. With Chichi Peralta + Son Familia he was once again touring the world playing sold-out concert halls and stadiums.

In 1999 Croes participated extensively as an advisor, arranger, keyboardist, and music calligrapher in the production of the CD: De Vuelta Al Barrio, which earned them a Latin Grammy Award for best merengue album in 2001. The live CD/DVD release En Vivo by Chichi Peralta became a huge success in France and other parts of Europe. Croes made musical arrangements and played the accordion, piano, and keyboards on Chichi Peralta's latest release: Mas Que Suficiente, which again earned them a Latin Grammy nomination in 2006.

Hildward directs and writes for his own Dushi Band which has become one of the most popular local bands especially during the carnival festivities producing hit songs year after year and winning music festivals on many occasions. He also plays the accordion with Grupo Di Betico; a typical acoustic folkloric music group formed by Croes' family members that performs regularly at the end of each year during the holiday season. While on Aruba, he can be found playing his heart out with local bands such as JEMM (Funk, Rock), Antonio Bello Blues (Blues, Rock), Soul Cowboy (Nu-Jazz, Fusion), Roots Rebels (Reggae), and others.

Croes directs show and special event orchestras and has his own production company where he continues to produce music for film, TV, radio ads, jingles, as well as CDs for artists around the Caribbean and South America out of his home-studio: Vanilla Kingdom. He recently wrote Rumba Aruba for the Aruba Tourism Authority's international ad campaign, and won the 2007 Aruba Carnival Roadmarch Festival with the song: Music (Music is we language!).

In his free time Hildward chooses to enjoy watersports in the Caribbean sun and relaxes on the white sandy beaches of his native Aruba.

At the end of 2007 Hildward Croes once again received the distinguished recognition of "Artist Of The Year" by the local media.

HILDWARD CROES' RUMBA ARUBA

 
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on March 05, 2008, 05:50:08 PM
Anyone know the name of SGC's father?

Tick tock, the hammer & the block.


Fin

Also I wonder if this uncle of S croes is Steves mother's brother as the Uncle (I guess it is the Uncle, or dad even) in the car when Greta interviewed Croes looks a lot like Bill Cromvroit's  picture when he was younger or at least the one posted on the I-net that may have been taken from ID when he was active as a cop or Security.  He has short grey hair now, I think and has gained up some weight from the shot I saw of him with GVC's mom walking towards their house. Steve and GVC are good friends.  Wonder if they are cousins from Steve's mother's side?  Steve Croes dad and Joran's dad know each other as they have played music together.  Croes father was a musician on the ship where Amy Bradly disappeard (if at the time of Bradley I do not know for sure.)  He plays guitar and Palus plays some type of horn or wind instrument at the least.  He is supposed to play music as a hobby though.  I believe he has other, more dangerous hobbies as  well from the way it is looking.       jack b

It is Steve Croes uncle in the car with him when Greta does her brief interview.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: FaithMS on March 05, 2008, 06:10:37 PM
Anyone know the name of SGC's father?

Tick tock, the hammer & the block.


Fin

Also I wonder if this uncle of S croes is Steves mother's brother as the Uncle (I guess it is the Uncle, or dad even) in the car when Greta interviewed Croes looks a lot like Bill Cromvroit's  picture when he was younger or at least the one posted on the I-net that may have been taken from ID when he was active as a cop or Security.  He has short grey hair now, I think and has gained up some weight from the shot I saw of him with GVC's mom walking towards their house. Steve and GVC are good friends.  Wonder if they are cousins from Steve's mother's side?  Steve Croes dad and Joran's dad know each other as they have played music together.  Croes father was a musician on the ship where Amy Bradly disappeard (if at the time of Bradley I do not know for sure.)  He plays guitar and Palus plays some type of horn or wind instrument at the least.  He is supposed to play music as a hobby though.  I believe he has other, more dangerous hobbies as  well from the way it is looking.       jack b

It is Steve Croes uncle in the car with him when Greta does her brief interview.



(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b315/FaithMS/Natalees/scng.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on March 05, 2008, 06:14:30 PM
He lies through his teeth again here when he says he doesn't know Deepak. We know Deepak said in three other statements that he is friends with Steve Croes. He even has his cell phone number as he says in the Skeeters tape.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on March 05, 2008, 06:28:36 PM
Anyone remember SC's Mother didn't she  live in CURACAO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on March 05, 2008, 06:37:40 PM
Thanks Bleached,

That is the pic I remember. I have not seen that pic in a long time, from a different beach. I think a mole or two might have seen it though. ::MonkeyWink::


Fin

A mole? Where?

Fin you been a sleep for too long

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Fun%20stuff/4131738040.jpg)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on March 05, 2008, 06:43:37 PM
Anyone remember SC's Mother didn't she  live in CURACAO
IMOLDA STATIA SALIANA

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/27/ltm.05.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on March 05, 2008, 07:01:58 PM
Thank You VMS

CNN spoke with his next-door neighbor, who identified himself as Rufo Solognier. He identified the person arrested as his nephew Steve Croes  and described him as a quiet, divorced father of a 2-year-old son.
   
Croes' boss on the Tattoo cruise ship, Marcus Williams, told CNN the boat generally does not go out on Sunday nights.

Even when the boat does go out on Sundays, it returns by midnight, Williams said.

The boat docks about 300 meters, or about 1,000 feet, from the Holiday Inn where Holloway was staying.




http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/17/missing.teen/index.html?iref=newssearch


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 05, 2008, 09:14:49 PM
JMO

but I think simian's:
the music man's song was not on the bill

referenced only 2 things:
Croes being a DJ and "singing" an alibi

shango's first post:
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian....

was a follow-up to simian's musical metaphor
and the set-up for shango's musical metaphors to follow:

singing cards
singing beetles
follow the music
the poison song
fallen judge sings any tune
sing for his son
cowboys won't hear the music
etc

this came just 2.5 hours into shango's 5-day posting history:

The simplicity of Occam's Razor is often outweighed
by the complexity of maintaining factors in an elemental state 

= keep theories simple, even though it is hard to do so
and tempting to do otherwise ... again, JMHO

 :cool:







Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 05, 2008, 09:20:27 PM
IMOLDA STATIA SALIANA
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/27/ltm.05.html

LAWRENCE: Steve Croes was still handcuffed Sunday, but he was all smiles, knowing the judge had ordered his release, too. Croes is a deejay on a party boat that docks near the hotel where Natalee was staying.

His mother cried when she heard the news, but wasn't surprised.

QUESTION: Do you think he's innocent?

IMOLDA STATIA SALIANA, STEVE CROES' MOTHER: Of course. I'm sure.


 :salut:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 05, 2008, 10:37:26 PM
Now, why are we talking about Steve's father?  I have lost the gist of this conversation. Sorry.

I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.


Fin

Do you have this picture, Fin?
I do not recall ever seeing one with the two of them together.
Palus Vandersloot has played music with Steve Croes father.  Both are instrument players.  They all know one another.  Also Steve Croes is a good party friend (at least) with Geoffrey Cromvroit.  His father was also a policeman for either 12 or 18 years.  There is a picture of GCV in the home of Vandersloots with the family watching tv it appears.  He was younger.
         Jack b

Do you have a link for this information?  It would be nice to have proof that this is true. How do we know he and Paulus were friends?  I guess what I need is proof that this Hildward fellow is indeed Steve's father. Why didn't he show his face when Steve was arrested?  Why didn't he support his son? 

Also, where is this photo?  I would love to see it since GVC claims he did not know Joran.  TIA.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 05, 2008, 10:46:01 PM
Hildward Croes ????
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/In%20the%20News/808789401_m-2.jpg)




(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/In%20the%20News/tmb-bradleyunsub1.jpg)

I don't think this guy resembles Steve Croes...his uncle looks more like Steve than this man.  But then again I don't do well with photos unless they are side by side.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on March 05, 2008, 11:29:31 PM
Anyone know the name of SGC's father?

Tick tock, the hammer & the block.


Fin

Also I wonder if this uncle of S croes is Steves mother's brother as the Uncle (I guess it is the Uncle, or dad even) in the car when Greta interviewed Croes looks a lot like Bill Cromvroit's  picture when he was younger or at least the one posted on the I-net that may have been taken from ID when he was active as a cop or Security.  He has short grey hair now, I think and has gained up some weight from the shot I saw of him with GVC's mom walking towards their house. Steve and GVC are good friends.  Wonder if they are cousins from Steve's mother's side?  Steve Croes dad and Joran's dad know each other as they have played music together.  Croes father was a musician on the ship where Amy Bradly disappeard (if at the time of Bradley I do not know for sure.)  He plays guitar and Palus plays some type of horn or wind instrument at the least.  He is supposed to play music as a hobby though.  I believe he has other, more dangerous hobbies as  well from the way it is looking.       jack b

It is Steve Croes uncle in the car with him when Greta does her brief interview.



(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b315/FaithMS/Natalees/scng.jpg)

Is the second pic cropped? I would love to see more of the left part if it is.

Notice they both have that same deformed looking ear curl going inwards toward the ear canal - proper.

That is an inherited trait.

Maybe papa Crow has it too.

Follow the ear lobes....


Fin

P.S. Hey Faith


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 06, 2008, 12:04:01 AM
de moeder van Lorenzo

De moeder van Lorenzo, Astrid van Rijn, actief is als poster op een aantal websites (als SandraK en Keywest). Zij gaf onlangs aan dat ze op goede voet staat met Robin Holloway, de vrouw van Dave Holloway. Dit is natuurlijk pikant, nu de ex vriendin van Lorenzo van Rijn zijn alibi op 30 mei 2005 intrekt

::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyEek::

I don't need a translator for this post  ::MonkeyEek::

If true -- that would explain a LOT.
Klaas would disagree with that for sure! SandraK says she is from Michigan She is a crazy lady but has had this unique interest in Lorenzo and has since the beginning..The other day HannieC asked Glenda twice about Lorenzo's GF withdrawing his alibi the night Natalee went missing. She never answered him.

(Translation)
The mother of Lorenzo, Astrid van Rijn, operates as a poster on a number of websites (as SandraK and Keywest). She said recently that she is on good footing with Robin Holloway, the wife of Dave Holloway. Of course, this is spicy, now that the former girlfriend of Lorenzo van Rijn withdrew her  alibi on May 30, 2005

summer 2005 from sandraK:

6-18-05 Maybe if we have more LvR info in one place we can decide what we know/don't know. Seems understandable that we would be curious about him, as we would be about anyone whose property was searched by ALE, which some posters insist is fact. We know very little re description, age, which pic is/isn't him, etc. There is little info & much of what we have conflicts w/ what we've seen/read in news converage.

here?  http://album.pancayente.com/displayimage.php?album=19&pos=43

NO... rest, dear.

7-31-05 here? (http://photos17.flickr.com/19750742_6d3595db3e_m.jpg)
NOT STEVE..NO.. and not Lorenzo..He near 30..LOL

7-31-05 THE "Lorenzo".. Is thin faced and has a Shaved Head..LMAO..& is 27!!!

7-31-05 can someone give me 1, ONE good reason why Lorenzo has attained a God-like status?
I'm clueless, as he has nothing to do with this case.

7-31-05 here? http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=vH-TivODO3rP_OLy
Not the one you Thinking of.. this is just a kid..

7-31-05 Has anyone wondered if perhaps the guy/witness who was a daily fixture at the beach, but who is now vanished, is Lorenzo? Maybe that's the puzzle piece. He was questioned as a witness early in all of this; is he missing now?  Maybe Lorenzo isn't a culprit, and that's why we couldn't fit him into the puzzle at first. Maybe he was a RELIABLE witness who actually saw something.....and maybe he's a missing beach bum, and that's why we couldn't find anything on him. Is that plausible?)
Lorenzo is alive and well, the ALE payed him a visit on a "TIP" .. and seached his place, dogs & all... He had nothing to do with the case.

8-1-05 Honestly, I am beginning to wonder what part of "NO BODY - NO CASE" the people searching for Natalee on that island, do NOT understand? PVDS was very emphatic when he said "NO BODY." If her body was taken off the island to dump they had to have access to a boat. That leads me to Croes or Lorenzo. Does anyone know why Lorenzo was one of the first ones the ALE interviewed?)
WHO told you That???

8-2-05 What happened to the reports she had once been kept at Van Rijn's?)
Stop with the Lorenzo..LOL!!  He realy has nothing to do with this case.. a "Tip" *maybe from a Monkey* had LE dogs and all @ him home and Nothing and No ties to anyone...

8-2-05 Lorenzo was born in Holland

8-2-05 WHY was he brought in for questioning about this case? WHY is he so elusive?
he has Nothing to do with this case.. LE went there on a"TIP" found Nothing..

8-4-05 If I say Lorenzo, will you be mad?
VERY

8-4-05 Lorenzo is involved I think.
STOP with Lorenzo... OK :?:  :?:  :?:  :?: He Doesn't hang around with "Teenie Boppers"

8-5-05 because, i have heard for awhile now, that Mr Pink is Lorenzo, and supposedly rumor has it that Lorenzo is paulus son
NO...NO..& NO Mr Pink is Paul Bourhs(sp) and lives in Michigan...

8-21-05 Lorenzo V R 's home had been seached...He has Nothing to do with this Case. We now have a new Lorenzo (wever) enter to picture.. he has returned to Holland. right after Nalalee went missing ... and has been questioned a few times.. his dad is a Big wig in a Politic Party!

8-21-05 we are still in mass confusion about Lorenzos. Lorenzo Wever is the older guy with the 2 houses, one possibly "rave party" site. Lorenzo Van Rijn is Joran's classmate. Is that correct?
Lorenzo VR is like 27! and long out of school.& Has the Big old House !! your thinking of MAX Arends I bet..he went to school with Joran and Maybe the one that spent the night?! He was called in for Questioning the same day SteveO was arrested!! This Wever dude worked @ a casino

8-21-05 I'm interested in this as the VdS/K2 homes weren't searched until 16 days after the disappearance & 6 days after their detainments. It was reported that LvR was questioned & that makes sense if he is a friend of JvdS, I'm sure many friends were questioned. But an actual search sounds like upping the ante quite a bit, no? Any idea on what basis a search was done? And when?
He does NOT Know Him..but a "TIP" was called in..

8-21-05 I agree..not the same person. But, I also don't understand this "Lorenzo is 27" stuff. My son is 30 and doesn't look any older than Jaime
He has some very Cute friends  :wink: But it is a common name in the world.. true. He is a Non person is this..IMHO

8-21-05 please tell me the origin of the "Lorenzo" question, I have heard it often and assume it started on late night scared monkeys, have been hesitant to ask
PM me.. I no not want trouble

8-21-05 trouble from Lorenzo?!
From anyone  :sad: 
 
8-21-05 Can someone please tell me what Lorenzo has to do with this case? I'm starting to feel sorry for the poor guy.
Me,too... The ALE found he had Nothing to do with this case.. After seaching his home, dogs and everything!!! all on a "Tip"

8-22-05 They have questioned friends, such as Max Arendsz and Lorenzo van Rijn, and I believe one other guy was questioned for sure, as I believe a few girlfriends. DIARIO wants those pictures.
Max was in de Cop shop the same day SteveO was taken in for his extended Vacation. Max was the over night Vistor @ joran's pad on night of Joran's C& C night on the Town

8-27-05 how about a brief desciption on what Lorenzo looks like. Approx height, weight, eye color, hair color, age, any distinguishing marks, tattoos, scars, married, single
slowly... He is no friend of mine... !!

8-27-05 thought someone said he was tall and bald???
That's a Hoot... where did you hear that???

after the list above was posted:
Do you realy copy,count, read, and think about every Post I ever made :?:
This site just hit 3 million people..

I didn't identify them as your posts :!:

Quote from: omega
Quote from: sandraK
Do you realy copy,count, read,and think about every Post I ever  made :?:
This site just hit 3 million people..

Good point, and with over THREE MILLION visitors, you are the only poster who expressed glee & delight when Steve Croes was released, referring to him as "baby" -- and when asked about this, repetitively by other posters, you never explained.

I find it very disingenuous that, after seeing you questioned ALL THE TIME over in Lively Case Discussion, again & again & again & again, that you are acting "surprised" over here.

Frankly, I personally don't care about your relationships with any of the perpetrators, or whether you don't have any relationships with them.

Quote from: Kimmer
And, SandraK, I don't mean any harm in asking you questions, but you bring up the topics yourself, by leading us to believe that you know these people (Steve, LVR).  Then, you don't respond to our questions.  If you don't want to be questioned, stick back and don't post about them.  You somehow claim to know them, so of course people will ask questions.

summer 2005/no date available:
Quote from: Rob
here it is...name deleted to protect his idenity....

My counterpart with the local Police told me what they "did" to Lorenzo and he is confident that Lorenzo had nothing to do with the case. According to him Lorenzo was crying like a baby. They stripped his house, cars and boats apart, piece by piece. Other than that he also has an alibi corroborated by three friends who spent the night with him. That alibi does not include his girlfriend who reportedly was with him and the friends too. The other house is his mother's. He is quite the eccentric and "everybody" in Aruba knows he has that nightclub in the basement.
Quote from: arubagirl
On the Rob post. About Lorenzo being cleared? No, not really, actually. As far as I know, he's not cleared.
Quote from: Rob
maybe hes wrong, i trust him to tell me the truth....he has no reason to lie... it might be one of those things, your always a suspect until YOU can prove your not.....
Quote from: NativeLingo
In fact his is the first name I heard connected to this case....

summer 2005/no date available:
sandraK: Lorenzo's Dad had a VW Dealership.. He is dead.sadly..He runs with. Max Arendsz & Orlando Bello  From the Aruba Speed Shop...A Kinda Strange Dude.. but harmless...  SM's think he has something to do with this.. Cops Been all over him.. He's not involved...

MisGivings: Is this the 'rave' guy? And, wasn't some of Natalee's clothing found in his basement?

sandraK: No clothes were found...!! Nothing

jozee: SandraK, So Lorenzo runs with the guys from the Speed Shop?? I thought Peeps said he only met him once??

sandraK: and ???

jozee: ...and back at ya...if he met him once how does he run with them?

sandraK: I didn't know Peeps was Max Arendsz....I'm Sorry.   :oops: :oops:

jozee: SandraK, I don't believe he is Max...if you are to believe what he says they are best friends...just do a search on Peeps posts and you can see for yourself. He came here after a bunch of Monkeys hit on the speed shop during research. I don't know if he posts anymore....

sandraK: WE  PM  :wink:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: FaithMS on March 06, 2008, 12:06:44 AM
Anyone know the name of SGC's father?

Tick tock, the hammer & the block.


Fin

Also I wonder if this uncle of S croes is Steves mother's brother as the Uncle (I guess it is the Uncle, or dad even) in the car when Greta interviewed Croes looks a lot like Bill Cromvroit's  picture when he was younger or at least the one posted on the I-net that may have been taken from ID when he was active as a cop or Security.  He has short grey hair now, I think and has gained up some weight from the shot I saw of him with GVC's mom walking towards their house. Steve and GVC are good friends.  Wonder if they are cousins from Steve's mother's side?  Steve Croes dad and Joran's dad know each other as they have played music together.  Croes father was a musician on the ship where Amy Bradly disappeard (if at the time of Bradley I do not know for sure.)  He plays guitar and Palus plays some type of horn or wind instrument at the least.  He is supposed to play music as a hobby though.  I believe he has other, more dangerous hobbies as  well from the way it is looking.       jack b

It is Steve Croes uncle in the car with him when Greta does her brief interview.



(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b315/FaithMS/Natalees/scng.jpg)

Is the second pic cropped? I would love to see more of the left part if it is.

Notice they both have that same deformed looking ear curl going inwards toward the ear canal - proper.

That is an inherited trait.

Maybe papa Crow has it too.

Follow the ear lobes....


Fin

P.S. Hey Faith

Hi Fin :), I took those screenshots from the video.

My notes say:

June 28th, 2005
Steven Croes Talks to Greta


The link I have no longer works. :(



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 06, 2008, 12:48:38 AM
Now, why are we talking about Steve's father?  I have lost the gist of this conversation. Sorry.

I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.


Fin

Do you have this picture, Fin?
I do not recall ever seeing one with the two of them together.
Palus Vandersloot has played music with Steve Croes father.  Both are instrument players.  They all know one another.  Also Steve Croes is a good party friend (at least) with Geoffrey Cromvroit.  His father was also a policeman for either 12 or 18 years.  There is a picture of GCV in the home of Vandersloots with the family watching tv it appears.  He was younger.
         Jack b

Do you have a link for this information?  It would be nice to have proof that this is true. How do we know he and Paulus were friends?  I guess what I need is proof that this Hildward fellow is indeed Steve's father. Why didn't he show his face when Steve was arrested?  Why didn't he support his son? 

Also, where is this photo?  I would love to see it since GVC claims he did not know Joran.  TIA.

Klass them both.  I do not post pics in photo bucket as I do not want users in my computer.  I have too much information that I try to transfer to outside storages, but sometimes get behind the 9-ball on it. I send all my pictures out by e-mail so as to limit the possibilities of them getting all over the i-net.  Also there are pictures of Cromvroit partying with Steve Croes.  In the event Klass does not have these tell her to let me know and I will send them to her again.   Jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 06, 2008, 12:58:27 AM
About this picture in the car

IMO its just shot from the back seat of the car for no special purposes

The large version is on this site

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/305850535ERHiiA?start=48

I ve cropped and ligthened a part of the larger original image

(http://i26.tinypic.com/35jmd0g.jpg)

I think that the object with the yellow light is a public phone or something

Just a street scene close to one of the Diamond International stores
their logo is on the sign

(http://i29.tinypic.com/16gbad5.gif)

In all probability, this picture was not really made within a car, but is a picture within a picture, different layers.  The picture shows different objects under different lighting.  If you have a good graphics program and know how to use the thing, it helps.  Personally I like the newer Paint professional programs.  I have more control there.  Actually the Paint Shop Pro version 9 is good.  That is not the newest.  There are ways to get more visual, but it is so long and drawn out I will not go into this just now.  I will say that someone who is posting the pictures really knows their stuff.  There is the man sitting with the "ax" who is rally hiding what the picture is about.  There are many pictures within this.  It is interesting, but you are only going to have pictues and no proof.  It does tell the story, of what happened as far as the violence, but that is the main pictures you will see.  The proof would not help because those ALE and justices will not prosecute their own children for an American tourist.  They are all hiding things, those who have the means to do something, it seems.  We all know what happened, they just will not prosecute.     Jack blue


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tater on March 06, 2008, 06:44:42 AM
About this picture in the car

IMO its just shot from the back seat of the car for no special purposes

The large version is on this site

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/305850535ERHiiA?start=48

I ve cropped and ligthened a part of the larger original image

(http://i26.tinypic.com/35jmd0g.jpg)

I think that the object with the yellow light is a public phone or something

Just a street scene close to one of the Diamond International stores
their logo is on the sign

(http://i29.tinypic.com/16gbad5.gif)

In all probability, this picture was not really made within a car, but is a picture within a picture, different layers.  The picture shows different objects under different lighting.  If you have a good graphics program and know how to use the thing, it helps.  Personally I like the newer Paint professional programs.  I have more control there.  Actually the Paint Shop Pro version 9 is good.  That is not the newest.  There are ways to get more visual, but it is so long and drawn out I will not go into this just now.  I will say that someone who is posting the pictures really knows their stuff.  There is the man sitting with the "ax" who is rally hiding what the picture is about.  There are many pictures within this.  It is interesting, but you are only going to have pictues and no proof.  It does tell the story, of what happened as far as the violence, but that is the main pictures you will see.  The proof would not help because those ALE and justices will not prosecute their own children for an American tourist.  They are all hiding things, those who have the means to do something, it seems.  We all know what happened, they just will not prosecute.     Jack blue


jackb,you really have my head spinning now! Man sitting with the ax?
Could you further explain alittle?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on March 06, 2008, 08:47:46 AM
Now, why are we talking about Steve's father?  I have lost the gist of this conversation. Sorry.

I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.


Fin

Do you have this picture, Fin?
I do not recall ever seeing one with the two of them together.
Palus Vandersloot has played music with Steve Croes father.  Both are instrument players.  They all know one another.  Also Steve Croes is a good party friend (at least) with Geoffrey Cromvroit.  His father was also a policeman for either 12 or 18 years.  There is a picture of GCV in the home of Vandersloots with the family watching tv it appears.  He was younger.
         Jack b

Do you have a link for this information?  It would be nice to have proof that this is true. How do we know he and Paulus were friends?  I guess what I need is proof that this Hildward fellow is indeed Steve's father. Why didn't he show his face when Steve was arrested?  Why didn't he support his son? 

Also, where is this photo?  I would love to see it since GVC claims he did not know Joran.  TIA.

Klass them both.  I do not post pics in photo bucket as I do not want users in my computer.  I have too much information that I try to transfer to outside storages, but sometimes get behind the 9-ball on it. I send all my pictures out by e-mail so as to limit the possibilities of them getting all over the i-net.  Also there are pictures of Cromvroit partying with Steve Croes.  In the event Klass does not have these tell her to let me know and I will send them to her again.   Jack b

I think this is the picture you are talking about, but I don't think it was ever proving to be  GVC

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/People%20of%20Intrest/Theotherhalf.jpg)

Also there are pictures of Cromvroit partying with Steve Croes.

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Aruba/w80ykk.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on March 06, 2008, 10:22:36 AM
Now, why are we talking about Steve's father?  I have lost the gist of this conversation. Sorry.

I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.


Fin

Do you have this picture, Fin?
I do not recall ever seeing one with the two of them together.
Palus Vandersloot has played music with Steve Croes father.  Both are instrument players.  They all know one another.  Also Steve Croes is a good party friend (at least) with Geoffrey Cromvroit.  His father was also a policeman for either 12 or 18 years.  There is a picture of GCV in the home of Vandersloots with the family watching tv it appears.  He was younger.
         Jack b

Do you have a link for this information?  It would be nice to have proof that this is true. How do we know he and Paulus were friends?  I guess what I need is proof that this Hildward fellow is indeed Steve's father. Why didn't he show his face when Steve was arrested?  Why didn't he support his son? 

Also, where is this photo?  I would love to see it since GVC claims he did not know Joran.  TIA.

Klass them both.  I do not post pics in photo bucket as I do not want users in my computer.  I have too much information that I try to transfer to outside storages, but sometimes get behind the 9-ball on it. I send all my pictures out by e-mail so as to limit the possibilities of them getting all over the i-net.  Also there are pictures of Cromvroit partying with Steve Croes.  In the event Klass does not have these tell her to let me know and I will send them to her again.   Jack b

The photo Jackb is referring to with GVC at the Sloots has never been proven to be GVC.  The kid resembles GVC but that's it.  As far as GVC and Steve Croes, yes there are a couple of photos of Steve C and GVC in webshots:

(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/21/33218732_c285bbf15b.jpg)




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 06, 2008, 10:43:31 AM
Klaas
Do you have the info about Steve Croes father?  Is he really this guy in the band that plays with Paulus? TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 06, 2008, 11:31:41 AM
Anyone remember SC's Mother didn't she  live in CURACAO
IMOLDA STATIA SALIANA

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/27/ltm.05.html


vms...Thanks...I don't see any Croes in ther though...the name-game!

Maybe a stage name.

When he was first arrested he was rumored to be an EMT, a pilot amongst other things. There was apparently a Steve Croes - EMT-different bod.

The one that intrigued me was that his dad was a member of a paramilitary squad. A poster went on to add that would have to be in Curacao.

I haven't seen a name on his Dad anywhere and would be interested to know who he is.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 06, 2008, 12:37:02 PM
Found this the other day and thought it interesting...from when Freddy was arrested with the Kalpoes...Steve just had to go in then and pick up a few things, but his mother called a TV show!

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/29/ng.01.html


Thing number two, that party boat deejay, remember Steven Croes?

GRACE: Yes.

FAULKNER: Well, a camera crew spotted him coming out of the police station today, thought maybe he`d been re-arrested. Apparently he told the camera crew, no, I just went to pick a few things up. However, "A Current Affair" got a call from his mother earlier today saying she was concerned that her son might have been re-arrested. So we`re still working to see what the plan is there.

I thought he`d been exonerated. "A Current Affair" was the only station to talk with him, the only network to talk with him when he got out of prison the first time he was arrested. He told me on camera, Harris, I`ve been exonerated, I have no reason to think I`ll be a further suspect in this case. That was over a month ago.

Back at the police station, Nancy, we`re not quite sure why. He says he`s picking something up. His mom says she`s worried.

Third thing going on, the divers, what they found yesterday as they searched about a mile off the coast of Aruba. One of the volunteer searchers had said that he saw something with sonar that looked like it might be human bones. It turns out to be nothing.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 06, 2008, 12:45:47 PM
Hi Caps...anything you can share?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on March 06, 2008, 02:33:26 PM
Hi Caps...Just wanted to say Hello!

Lala's and Caps wasn't there a David mentioned in the S/S riddles...something about the only one that made it out of the maze or something.... ::MonkeyConfused:: Anyways there was a mention of David Dicks on page 11 on the Natalee thread  reply# 208...just caught My eye when I saw it....just thought I would mention it..... ::MonkeyWink:: 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 06, 2008, 02:46:14 PM
Hi Caps...Just wanted to say Hello!

Lala's and Caps wasn't there a David mentioned in the S/S riddles...something about the only one that made it out of the maze or something.... ::MonkeyConfused:: Anyways there was a mention of David Dicks on page 11 on the Natalee thread  reply# 208...just caught My eye when I saw it....just thought I would mention it..... ::MonkeyWink:: 

Thanks Hotping....my favorite... 'Only David left the den alive'

Must have missed it in my skimming to catch up this morning...I wonder will I have 3 Davids to keep my eye on now!!! ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 06, 2008, 03:02:15 PM
Hi Mum

Not meaning to confuse things further

DAVID DICK
DIRTY HAND

same number of letters


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on March 06, 2008, 03:07:55 PM
Hi Caps...Just wanted to say Hello!

Lala's and Caps wasn't there a David mentioned in the S/S riddles...something about the only one that made it out of the maze or something.... ::MonkeyConfused:: Anyways there was a mention of David Dicks on page 11 on the Natalee thread  reply# 208...just caught My eye when I saw it....just thought I would mention it..... ::MonkeyWink:: 

Thanks Hotping....my favorite... 'Only David left the den alive'

Must have missed it in my skimming to catch up this morning...I wonder will I have 3 Davids to keep my eye on now!!! ::MonkeyConfused::
YW! There is also another mention of David Dick on pg 20 of the above thread...just letting You know... ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on March 06, 2008, 03:56:25 PM
Klaas
Do you have the info about Steve Croes father?  Is he really this guy in the band that plays with Paulus? TIA

I have zero information on Steve Croes dad and I really doubt there is any relationship to the band that plays with Paulus.  Croes is just too common a name. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 06, 2008, 05:08:16 PM
Hi Mum

Not meaning to confuse things further

DAVID DICK
DIRTY HAND

same number of letters

Shango says that Babalu told us who Dirty Hand was with the 12:30 posting.  Now, David left the den alive could be anyone...maybe not even a person named David at all..just a reference that could have been confused with Daniel leaving a lions den.  Now, how confused is everyone? LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 06, 2008, 06:45:08 PM
Hi Mum

Not meaning to confuse things further

DAVID DICK
DIRTY HAND

same number of letters

Shango says that Babalu told us who Dirty Hand was with the 12:30 posting.  Now, David left the den alive could be anyone...maybe not even a person named David at all..just a reference that could have been confused with Daniel leaving a lions den.  Now, how confused is everyone? LOL

didn t babalu open a window looking into babylon? He never actualy said babalu is right and straten is dirty hand.
I m not trying to be a smart ass and certainly not pretending i m right. But it would be a possibility
One more to add to the confusion

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:37 pm
What is an Arawak.
To find answers, one must Google if smoke signals blowing in strong wind

just for the heck of it i did just that i googled: arawak smoke signals wind

second hit was: Smoke signal news letter from the Manataka American Indian Council

http://www.manataka.org/page794.html

it says:It is also important to note how the Carib or Caribe was thought to reside in the "Greater Antilles," where the "peaceful Arawak" were supposed to be. In fact, the Arawak did not penetrate the Antillean region (Lamourt-Valentin 2002; Rouse 1992)

read it if you have time. I just thought it was interesting



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 06, 2008, 08:08:56 PM
anyone hear from caps lately

...  the robot in lost in space would say REGNAD

last post march3

me yrrow


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 06, 2008, 08:25:52 PM
pg 4:   Both pimps and prostitutes generally referred to their activities as “the game.”
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf

Shango restates Babalu:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

Elders of the game, not just of babylon (Arawak, too) walk in older circles

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game (why did the girl owe money?)
the lamb ran bleating

dirty hand:Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card (DirtyHand) sing because hand holding it dirty too (dirty hand).

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation
meet, under cover of delusion.
[restated: Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the ]
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.

DirtyHand is the link (between pimps & Arawaks)
He holds the real key (to the poison house)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on March 06, 2008, 08:27:07 PM

didn t babalu open a window looking into babylon? He never actualy said babalu is right and straten is dirty hand.
I m not trying to be a smart ass and certainly not pretending i m right. But it would be a possibility

Here;s why I believe Shango did answer the question of Dirty Hand.  I believe Dirty Hand to definitely be Van Der Straten based on these posts:

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.


Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 4:00 am
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:26 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
Simian your Doppleganger is with us

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post
DirtyHand is alive

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

drax on June 27th, 2005 10:57 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze:…is DirtyHand Poppa VDS?

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:01 pm
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post

drax on June 27th, 2005 11:08 pm
Shango says: The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.
I don’t understand, Shango.

Babalú on June 27th, 2005 11:10 pm
He’s talking about Dirty Hands identity, please refer to my post of yesterday 12:30 AM. He is JVDS, and not Joran.

Lucy on June 27th, 2005 10:56 pm
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:13 pm
Lucy spoke at 10:56

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am
Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29.   He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens the door to the lions den

watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:29 am
I think Subdude is on the right track about the media putting pressure on WHY the polis chief is leaving.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 06, 2008, 08:42:14 PM
arawaks hold the singing card from babylon

DirtyHand is not an arawak

DirtyHand knows who provided escort after the shivas left

......a window overlooking babylon (from above-ca$ino)

where's loesge?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 06, 2008, 08:46:07 PM
Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders 

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 06, 2008, 08:58:14 PM
drax on June 27th, 2005 10:57 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze:…is DirtyHand Poppa VDS?

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:01 pm
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post

drax on June 27th, 2005 11:08 pm
Shango says: The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.
I don’t understand, Shango.


so if i understand correctly Drax says: is dirty handhand PVDS? shango says you answered your own question
meaning yes it is
then he goes back to babalu(chief of police)= dirtyhand
then back to drax saying that he dont understand shango

maybe dirtyhand is not a single person but corruption in general?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 06, 2008, 09:25:34 PM
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:54 pm
The Arawaks are not going to sacrifice a scapegoat
Babylon needs to allow one sacrifice to keep DirtyHand hidden

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on March 06, 2008, 09:27:50 PM
drax on June 27th, 2005 10:57 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze:…is DirtyHand Poppa VDS?

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:01 pm
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post

drax on June 27th, 2005 11:08 pm
Shango says: The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.
I don’t understand, Shango.


so if i understand correctly Drax says: is dirty handhand PVDS? shango says you answered your own question
meaning yes it is
then he goes back to babalu(chief of police)= dirtyhand
then back to drax saying that he dont understand shango

maybe dirtyhand is not a single person but corruption in general?
Do not look for one dirtyHand, there several, but the one that we are looking for is PDVS, Ben King, etc. there are several in many capacity that has dirt their hands in the Natalee case.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 06, 2008, 09:46:26 PM
i.e.

1) DirtyHand is not an Arawak

2) But the foundations will shake even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is found

3) hand holding it dirty too (dirty hand)
a sacrifice will be made to spare the polis, to spare the teepees



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 07, 2008, 07:46:01 AM
COLUMBO...Just thought I'd let you know that I've copied and pasted your posts of the 4th. and 6th. as I am sure I will be looking for some light reading when my internet goes down during the next storm!...LOL  ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 07, 2008, 09:54:29 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….

ignore post if irrelevant

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=283019688

Tommy Croes
(Cuarta y Canto)
Rudy Croes
(Percusion y Canto)
Aiky Croes
(Percusion y Canto)
Maiky Croes
(Percusion y Canto)
Maikito Croes
(Percusion y Canto)
Hildward Croes
(Sonfoni'i Man y Canto)
Leoncio Croes
(Guitara y Canto)
Ruben Werleman
(Cuarta y Canto)
Gos Oduber
(Guitara Bajo y Canto)
Rigo Oduber
(Guitara y Canto)
Dennis Oduber
(Percusion y Canto)
Rudney Lopez
(Percusion y Canto)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 07, 2008, 10:01:16 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….

ignore post if irrelevant

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=283019688

Tommy Croes
(Cuarta y Canto)
Rudy Croes
(Percusion y Canto)
Aiky Croes
(Percusion y Canto)
Maiky Croes
(Percusion y Canto)
Maikito Croes
(Percusion y Canto)
Hildward Croes
(Sonfoni'i Man y Canto)
Leoncio Croes
(Guitara y Canto)
Ruben Werleman
(Cuarta y Canto)
Gos Oduber
(Guitara Bajo y Canto)
Rigo Oduber
(Guitara y Canto)
Dennis Oduber
(Percusion y Canto)
Rudney Lopez
(Percusion y Canto)

Good Morning JE...that site tracks who visits their place...only visited once, but I wonder why? Croes and Odubers...I bet the others are related as well...heck everyone on that island is related or will be by the next generation.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 07, 2008, 10:05:44 AM
Mum i just thought it was funny rudy croes himself on percussion


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 07, 2008, 10:12:23 AM
Mum i just thought it was funny rudy croes himself on percussion

Needed to add that Paulus plays something for 'Carnival'...sorry I don't recall what right now....once we finish this index maybe we will be able to put our hand on all this info!...some useless...some not...LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 07, 2008, 10:16:10 AM
Paul van der Sloot is a member of a brass band and he goes all out during the carnival, but in Aruba he is mostly known as the serious lawyer for whom the principles of justice always and everywhere comes in first place.

http://www.joranconfesses.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=58


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 07, 2008, 11:06:52 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
There are many DirtyHands among the Arawak, and so it has been for centuries…

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:28 pm
All preceding stated is verifiable
DirtyHand is well known
there will be a sacrifice
the gods have been talking
the fires have been lit
the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot
that is why they are preparing the sacrifice
All fear DirtyHand
Arawaks and babylon
I must go feed the messengers


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on March 07, 2008, 02:14:51 PM
drax on June 27th, 2005 10:57 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze:…is DirtyHand Poppa VDS?

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:01 pm
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post

drax on June 27th, 2005 11:08 pm
Shango says: The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.
I don’t understand, Shango.


so if i understand correctly Drax says: is dirty handhand PVDS? shango says you answered your own question
meaning yes it is
then he goes back to babalu(chief of police)= dirtyhand
then back to drax saying that he dont understand shango

maybe dirtyhand is not a single person but corruption in general?

Drax copied the post from Shango and then Drax said to Shango "I don't understand, Shango."

These are the posts that seal the deal for me regarding the identity of Dirty Hand:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon
He holds the real key


Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am
Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29.   He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens the door to the lions den

watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:29 am
I think Subdude is on the right track about the media putting pressure on WHY the polis chief is leaving.


Van Der Straten was the only one known to be leaving at the time of this post.

And...yes...there are many dirty hands in Aruba, but Van Der Straten is the Dirty Hand with the key. imo


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 07, 2008, 03:14:20 PM
Maybe we should take a poll...Truthseeker, Lala's and Mum on van der Straten as Dirty Hand...anyone else? ::MonkeyHaHa::

Lala's and I 'thought' we had our 5th. Suspect! ::MonkeyConfused::

COLUMBO thinks otherwise on Dirty Hand, won't tell unless you guess and has the singing cards worked out!  ::MonkeyCool::

Truthseeker...this is a serious question...did you ever figure out his Lordship?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on March 07, 2008, 03:18:54 PM

Truthseeker...this is a serious question...did you ever figure out his Lordship?

Have it narrowed down between Rudy Croes and the Governor General - Fredis J. Refunjol .


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 07, 2008, 03:25:56 PM
DH services Arawak Nation, and this is why it fears him

notice in Shango the interplay (pardon the pun) of DH with PVDS???

DH knows
so does the elder

he walked with the fallen elder

DH & #5 may be one in the same......if so, #5's being 'kept hidden' is what makes PVDS the defacto 5th

PVDS played and lost the hidden card, which the Arawaks cannot allow to sing


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 07, 2008, 03:48:46 PM
drax on June 27th, 2005 10:57 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze:…is DirtyHand Poppa VDS?

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:01 pm
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post

drax on June 27th, 2005 11:08 pm
Shango says: The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.
I don’t understand, Shango.


so if i understand correctly Drax says: is dirty handhand PVDS? shango says you answered your own question
meaning yes it is
then he goes back to babalu(chief of police)= dirtyhand
then back to drax saying that he dont understand shango

maybe dirtyhand is not a single person but corruption in general?

Drax copied the post from Shango and then Drax said to Shango "I don't understand, Shango."

These are the posts that seal the deal for me regarding the identity of Dirty Hand:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon
He holds the real key


Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am
Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29.   He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens the door to the lions den

watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:29 am
I think Subdude is on the right track about the media putting pressure on WHY the polis chief is leaving.


Van Der Straten was the only one known to be leaving at the time of this post.

And...yes...there are many dirty hands in Aruba, but Van Der Straten is the Dirty Hand with the key. imo

Truthseeker thx for the explanation you're right i misread.
but still...

babalu says it's JanVDS  shango answers he opened a window into babylon
My interpretation of this: Babalu gets the general idea he looks in the right direction. He stands at a window and looks in at the corruption

The Rastafarians borrowed the concept of “Babylon” from Revelation to describe oppressive government - “the establishment”. In turn, the Rainbow Family borrowed the term “Babylon” from the Rastas in an effort to describe “mainstream” society and the world outside of the Rainbow Gathering from which they are trying to separate themselves.

In Revelation, chapters 17 through 19, Babylon is used to describe the corrupt oppressive one world government
of the antichrist and his one world religion supported by an apostate church.

Now drax says is it Paulus Shango says: The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.

Thats a yes to me


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 07, 2008, 03:51:48 PM
DH services Arawak Nation, and this is why it fears him

notice in Shango the interplay (pardon the pun) of DH with PVDS???

DH knows
so does the elder

he walked with the fallen elder

DH & #5 may be one in the same......if so, #5's being 'kept hidden' is what makes PVDS the defacto 5th

PVDS played and lost the hidden card, which the Arawaks cannot allow to sing

Then I don't think you believe that Freddy can be the 5th. and Lorenzo the singing card. My thought on the two different stories...

Merian clearly points to Freddy...I think...and if Merian is connected to Simian, that would make Freddy, Simian's 5th. Suspect! The famous Pic and whose hand...

OK...I'm more confused than when I started my post...if Paulus is the 'defacto' #5, who is the 'hidden #5?...In your opinion...TIA

LOL...trying to work out if the answer is in your post somewhere! ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 07, 2008, 03:55:49 PM
PVDS played 2 cards-IMO this was summarized in that link you'd posted from RWV.....Croes was not hidden, the other was.....in fact, Jacobs insisted that one individual has nothing at all to do with the case.....not a suspect, never was......but, if he is DirtyHand and can break the alibi, many teepees fall!!!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 07, 2008, 03:57:10 PM
.........he 'walked' with the fallen elder........


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 07, 2008, 04:00:10 PM
@truthseeker

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

that would make both JanVDS and PVDS dirtyhand

Dirtyhand a general name for the corrupt officials as Caps said?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 07, 2008, 04:03:34 PM
dirty hand is this:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 07, 2008, 04:04:44 PM
DH=babylonian

what do babyonians trade?

while of gold bricks
the road is not paved


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 07, 2008, 04:05:11 PM
follow poi$on note$


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 07, 2008, 04:06:42 PM
PVDS played 2 cards-IMO this was summarized in that link you'd posted from RWV.....Croes was not hidden, the other was.....in fact, Jacobs insisted that one individual has nothing at all to do with the case.....not a suspect, never was......but, if he is DirtyHand and can break the alibi, many teepees fall!!!!!

Lorenzo...I can see where you get this. But according to Merian, Freddy is the 5th or is he?
 
I'm assuming that you think Lorenzo is the 5th. I would really like to know more about him and do believe Anita protested too loudly about him in that recent article. I don't believe I even saw on from her about Joran during that time.

JE...are you saying you think that Paulus is Dirty Hand?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 07, 2008, 04:09:21 PM
5th Suspect and Dirty Hand....LOL

I have seen more than my share of theories, but let's look at them...

Dirty Hand possibilities:
Jan van der Straten
Rudy Croes
Ben Vocking
Paulus van der Sloot
Ronny Bernadina
Karen Jansen
I have even seen the SG mentioned as DH and also Nelson Oduber. 

5th Suspect possibilities:
Freddy Abrambatizs
Steve Croes
Lorenzo van Rijn or Gijn
Koen or Sander Gottenbos
Paulus van der Sloot
Geoffrey van Cromvoit
I have even seen Joran, Jaime and Val mentioned.

So there you have it...just a few of the usual suspects.  So which ones fit???  I wish Caps would weigh in with his thoughts too.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 07, 2008, 04:10:15 PM
CAPS already did



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 07, 2008, 04:12:05 PM

Babalú Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:26 pm
The kidnapper is not Aruban
Van Rijn can not be pressured
The FBI would close in on the whole operation
The Arubans are prepared to give somebody as a token culprit
They will not sacrifice Steve Croes


Rember DirtyHand is PAUls other son


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 07, 2008, 04:14:18 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon?
DirtyHand knows, this is his Power
there will be 46 sacrifices


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 07, 2008, 04:14:47 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 07, 2008, 04:17:00 PM
Colombo I have yet to see anything that even suggests that Lorenzo is the 5th.  Don't get me wrong that would be my ideal suspect...you know that...but there is nothing that indicates that Lorenzo hung out with Joran or the other pimps.  I would like to see something that would support this other than just Shango says.

There is much that points to Freddy as the 5th. He was known to hang out with Joran on the beach and pick out the girls.  He to was rumored to be at a party and had two girls give statements which are most likley his alibi.  He is mentioned by the Kalpoes on several occasions as to needing to tell the truth.  I think we even found some evidence that he was in the casinos with Joran.

No doubt I would love for Lorenzo to be the 5th...but I am still waiting for that connection.  Is there anyone that can show indications that Lorenzo is the 5th other than Shango says?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 07, 2008, 04:17:51 PM
would defer to the title for this forum


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 07, 2008, 04:18:50 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak

But there is an Arawak Dirty Hand also...so how many are there?

BTW I left out Guido and Jacobs in the 5th and DH scenarios...I think Jacobs could easily be a dirty hand.  He certainly was in Beth's way.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 07, 2008, 04:20:01 PM

Babalú Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:26 pm
The kidnapper is not Aruban
Van Rijn can not be pressured
The FBI would close in on the whole operation
The Arubans are prepared to give somebody as a token culprit
They will not sacrifice Steve Croes


Rember DirtyHand is PAUls other son


That was in January...not now...He has changed many of his theories since that was posted.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 07, 2008, 04:20:40 PM
PVDS played 2 cards-IMO this was summarized in that link you'd posted from RWV.....Croes was not hidden, the other was.....in fact, Jacobs insisted that one individual has nothing at all to do with the case.....not a suspect, never was......but, if he is DirtyHand and can break the alibi, many teepees fall!!!!!

Lorenzo...I can see where you get this. But according to Merian, Freddy is the 5th or is he?
 
I'm assuming that you think Lorenzo is the 5th. I would really like to know more about him and do believe Anita protested too loudly about him in that recent article. I don't believe I even saw on from her about Joran during that time.

JE...are you saying you think that Paulus is Dirty Hand?

MUM I m still trying to make sense of this. I just went with the direct question this DRAX poster asked
is dirtyhand PVDS? shango answers "You answered your own question" That sounds like a Yes to me

Then shango also says Babalu knew who dirtyhand was at 12.30

Now that would make JanVDS dirtyhand as well


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 07, 2008, 04:22:58 PM
PVDS played 2 cards-IMO this was summarized in that link you'd posted from RWV.....Croes was not hidden, the other was.....in fact, Jacobs insisted that one individual has nothing at all to do with the case.....not a suspect, never was......but, if he is DirtyHand and can break the alibi, many teepees fall!!!!!

Lorenzo...I can see where you get this. But according to Merian, Freddy is the 5th or is he?
 
I'm assuming that you think Lorenzo is the 5th. I would really like to know more about him and do believe Anita protested too loudly about him in that recent article. I don't believe I even saw on from her about Joran during that time.

JE...are you saying you think that Paulus is Dirty Hand?

Also, remember that Simian and Merian are most likely the same person...so you have the same person indicating there is "some other" person that has gotten away with something.   Shango is not concerned with a 5th suspect his concern is dirty hand...which could be the same person as well....LOL  I bet you didn't expect me to say that?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 07, 2008, 04:40:43 PM
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians (a.k.a. pimps)
and the arawak nation (polis, gov't)
meet, under cover of delusion.
In the maze
the lions which play (the game)
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note. (bets)
Tell the cowboys!


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon
He holds the real key (to the aforementioned poison house perhaps?)

Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.
But not to satiate desire.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time

Dirty Hand is the link! (between pimps/Arawaks)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 07, 2008, 04:43:12 PM
per Babalu......sounds like reference was not to chief of polis going to house of babylon to search for NH

rather, polis often go there looking to play

teepees sway in babylonian breeze........


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 07, 2008, 08:27:01 PM
there is nothing that indicates that Lorenzo hung out with Joran or the other pimps.  I would like to see something that would support this other than just Shango says.

Jun 18, 2005 5:45pm
arubagirl: aia, van Rijn is the son of the late owner of the Volkswagen dealership. He is very close to van der Sloot, and he has been taken in for questioning.
 
Sat Jun 18, 2005 5:49pm
americaninaruba: they took him again??!!! IM sorry I know who he is but I was lost..I didnt know they have him again....I understood they interrogated him & released him later......wow ok I know who this guy is if you check my posts. I "described" him!




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 07, 2008, 08:34:01 PM
aug 1, 2005
Peeps: I am the owner of Boost Unit website and the webmaster of the speedshop.

Peeps: Maxito is one of my best friends. We go everywhere together. He doesn't know this guy Lorenzo. Locoman came once with his mom to the shop to get some quotations for parts for his Quad racer. that's it. We don't know locoman nor his following. Also we don't want to know anything about him. We stick to our motto " minding our own business"

summer 2005
sandraK: Lorenzo's Dad had a VW Dealership.. He is dead.sadly..He [meaning Lorenzo] runs with Max Arendsz & Orlando Bello From the Aruba Speed Shop...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

last year, on another beach, I read the text of an IM. the aruban in the conversation was being asked if he would be willing to take this girl to Lorenzo's place so she could party there. his advice? don't go to Lorenzo's. why? because los columbianos are there

June 27th, 2005 10:09pm ******* says:
Checkme - How confident are you in your theory about NH being kidnapped or hurt at a party being hosted by the Columbians? Is it an alternate theory or a predominant one in your mind?

Also, do the Columbians control you guys that much in Aruba? If so, I feel sad for you people that you have to turn the other way in light of such heinous crimes (murder, human sex and drug trafficking). Sure, we have the same crimes and the mafia in the U.S., but we also have people with some courage, which appears to be lacking in this case.

June 27th, 2005 11:54pm Checkme says:
... fear for the Colombians, no we don’t fear them. We can only fear ourselves falling to them as prey. That’s why we humble serve our customers in a legal way and stay out of trouble. Only those that do mess and deal with Colombians need to fear them.

June 28th, 2005 2:21am simian says:
No me hagan mofa. Estoy molesto por las bobedades de Shango y Shock y Checkme. Se creen, pero no son.

[I will not be mocked. I am bothered by the bobedades (?) of Shango and Shock and Checkme. They should not be believed]






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 07, 2008, 08:50:33 PM
 Shango Says:
June 30th, 2005 at 2:13 am
How can one hunt for lions with fishing gear?

Time is the enemy of the cowboys
and friend to the Arawaks, the Babylonians, and the hunted Jungle beasts



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on March 07, 2008, 08:57:38 PM
Does anyone have a link to the 2005 Front Page posts?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on March 07, 2008, 09:02:41 PM
Colombo I have yet to see anything that even suggests that Lorenzo is the 5th.  Don't get me wrong that would be my ideal suspect...you know that...but there is nothing that indicates that Lorenzo hung out with Joran or the other pimps.  I would like to see something that would support this other than just Shango says.

There is much that points to Freddy as the 5th. He was known to hang out with Joran on the beach and pick out the girls.  He to was rumored to be at a party and had two girls give statements which are most likley his alibi.  He is mentioned by the Kalpoes on several occasions as to needing to tell the truth.  I think we even found some evidence that he was in the casinos with Joran.

No doubt I would love for Lorenzo to be the 5th...but I am still waiting for that connection.  Is there anyone that can show indications that Lorenzo is the 5th other than Shango says?

I do not recall a post where Shango mentions the "5th suspect".  Simian posted many times about a 5th suspect.  Simian was somehow 'connected' to ALE, therefore I have never been sure that information coming from Simian was anything more than what ALE wanted people to know or think.  jmho


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 07, 2008, 09:13:42 PM
aug 1, 2005
Peeps: I am the owner of Boost Unit website and the webmaster of the speedshop.

Peeps: Maxito is one of my best friends. We go everywhere together. He doesn't know this guy Lorenzo. Locoman came once with his mom to the shop to get some quotations for parts for his Quad racer. that's it. We don't know locoman nor his following. Also we don't want to know anything about him. We stick to our motto " minding our own business"

summer 2005
sandraK: Lorenzo's Dad had a VW Dealership.. He is dead.sadly..He [meaning Lorenzo] runs with Max Arendsz & Orlando Bello From the Aruba Speed Shop...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

last year, on another beach, I read the text of an IM. the aruban in the conversation was being asked if he would be willing to take this girl to Lorenzo's place so she could party there. his advice? don't go to Lorenzo's. why? because los columbianos are there

June 27th, 2005 10:09pm ******* says:
Checkme - How confident are you in your theory about NH being kidnapped or hurt at a party being hosted by the Columbians? Is it an alternate theory or a predominant one in your mind?

Also, do the Columbians control you guys that much in Aruba? If so, I feel sad for you people that you have to turn the other way in light of such heinous crimes (murder, human sex and drug trafficking). Sure, we have the same crimes and the mafia in the U.S., but we also have people with some courage, which appears to be lacking in this case.

June 27th, 2005 11:54pm Checkme says:
... fear for the Colombians, no we don’t fear them. We can only fear ourselves falling to them as prey. That’s why we humble serve our customers in a legal way and stay out of trouble. Only those that do mess and deal with Colombians need to fear them.

June 28th, 2005 2:21am simian says:
No me hagan mofa. Estoy molesto por las bobedades de Shango y Shock y Checkme. Se creen, pero no son.

[I will not be mocked. I am bothered by the bobedades (?) of Shango and Shock and Checkme. They should not be believed]


I read something a while back pretty outrageous. it was about parties being organized at lorenzo's house where guys with guns were doing surveillance on the property. A new girl had to be brought in every time. there were dog fights. Girls had to do the laundry or wash the dishes(a metaphor for sexual activities) the guys with guns were referenced to as having flowers. Stupid as i was i dismisssed it because i thought it was to outrageous. It mentioned colombians etc etc. i ll see if i can dig it up


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 07, 2008, 09:15:31 PM
Posted Jun 24, 10:47 AM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Evening Update; Natalee Holloway” | View Post
154.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Who said the alibi played for the Van Der Sloot’s? The 5th suspect is waltzing away.
Posted Jun 24, 10:45 AM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Evening Update; Natalee Holloway” | View Post


Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.

The lamb is a scapegoat.
 




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on March 07, 2008, 10:03:05 PM
Lucy on June 27th, 2005 10:56 pm
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:13 pm
Lucy spoke at 10:56

watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:29 am
I think Subdude is on the right track about the media putting pressure on WHY the polis chief is leaving.

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am
Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29.   He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens the door to the lions den.

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:04 am
Observe all communications from Shango and judge from their worth….DirtyHand is the the Keystone!The lamb is in ther fold, and the shivas.  Threadsurfers, if they cannot out a lamb to manger, how will they deal with lions?DirtyHand is the key and may leave soon to avoid   attention from the cowboys and the fort


Questions for the S/S fans:

Who was the first person to say publically that Natalee was no longer alive?

Who retired...leaving Aruba?

Who was in charge of the investigation at the beginning?

My answer:
Jan Van Der Straten






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 07, 2008, 10:44:33 PM
DirtyHand is the key that opened the door to the Lion's Den, and, if an Arawak entered to probe the maze's fetid depths, what would he/she find?

Arawaks!

All the Arawaks know the maze that plays the poison songs

but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake
even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed

His reach is long (yeah, long arm)

Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house,
and so DirtyHand was discovered
But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings

A sacrifice will be made to spare the polis (dirty hand won't sing)

DirtyHand is not an Arawak

DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left

Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon?
DirtyHand knows, this is his Power
there will be 46 sacrifices

Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.
But not to satiate desire. (holds the real key!)


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open?
Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths.

why don’t the arawaks ambush the lions? (who are the lions??)
The cowboys don’t know.
DirtyHand knows, but is afraid of the Arawak Nation


Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:11 am
All the Arawaks know the Maze which plays the poison songs

The Arawak king has DirtyHands and DirtyFeet. If he is to reign anew, he cannot be soiled more.


Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid Arawak King who wishes to blame the babylonians for the behaviour of lowly minions.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 07, 2008, 11:18:44 PM
Colombo I have yet to see anything that even suggests that Lorenzo is the 5th.  Don't get me wrong that would be my ideal suspect...you know that...but there is nothing that indicates that Lorenzo hung out with Joran or the other pimps.  I would like to see something that would support this other than just Shango says.

There is much that points to Freddy as the 5th. He was known to hang out with Joran on the beach and pick out the girls.  He to was rumored to be at a party and had two girls give statements which are most likley his alibi.  He is mentioned by the Kalpoes on several occasions as to needing to tell the truth.  I think we even found some evidence that he was in the casinos with Joran.

No doubt I would love for Lorenzo to be the 5th...but I am still waiting for that connection.  Is there anyone that can show indications that Lorenzo is the 5th other than Shango says?

I do not recall a post where Shango mentions the "5th suspect".  Simian posted many times about a 5th suspect.  Simian was somehow 'connected' to ALE, therefore I have never been sure that information coming from Simian was anything more than what ALE wanted people to know or think.  jmho

Shango doesn't mention the 5th suspect. I was being facetious...sorry.  Forgot my sarcasm included there.  What I meant was it seems all we ever do is play the "shango says" game without anything to back it up.


BTW, Mum and I have tried to find the link to Lorenzo...that makes him the 5th suspect.   Believe me I have tried...I want it to be so...but Freddy is a better fit.  Actually, GVC fits and so does Guido and a few others. LOL 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 07, 2008, 11:22:10 PM
I have been meaning to tell Finngirl, since she asked me the other day... there is a thread devoted to all the Peeps and Boostunit stuff somewhere here.  I think ******* started it. I need to go find it, I guess.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 07, 2008, 11:23:36 PM
Lucy on June 27th, 2005 10:56 pm
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:13 pm
Lucy spoke at 10:56

watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:29 am
I think Subdude is on the right track about the media putting pressure on WHY the polis chief is leaving.

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am
Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29.   He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens the door to the lions den.

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:04 am
Observe all communications from Shango and judge from their worth….DirtyHand is the the Keystone!The lamb is in ther fold, and the shivas.  Threadsurfers, if they cannot out a lamb to manger, how will they deal with lions?DirtyHand is the key and may leave soon to avoid   attention from the cowboys and the fort


Questions for the S/S fans:

Who was the first person to say publically that Natalee was no longer alive?

Who retired...leaving Aruba?

Who was in charge of the investigation at the beginning?

My answer:
Jan Van Der Straten







Here... you are going to need this... :2brickwall:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 07, 2008, 11:27:17 PM
DirtyHand is the key that opened the door to the Lion's Den, and, if an Arawak entered to probe the maze's fetid depths, what would he/she find?

Arawaks!

All the Arawaks know the maze that plays the poison songs

but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake
even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed

His reach is long (yeah, long arm)

Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house,
and so DirtyHand was discovered
But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings

A sacrifice will be made to spare the polis (dirty hand won't sing)

DirtyHand is not an Arawak

DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left

Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon?
DirtyHand knows, this is his Power
there will be 46 sacrifices

Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.
But not to satiate desire. (holds the real key!)


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open?
Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths.

why don’t the arawaks ambush the lions? (who are the lions??)
The cowboys don’t know.
DirtyHand knows, but is afraid of the Arawak Nation


Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:11 am
All the Arawaks know the Maze which plays the poison songs

The Arawak king has DirtyHands and DirtyFeet. If he is to reign anew, he cannot be soiled more.


Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid Arawak King who wishes to blame the babylonians for the behaviour of lowly minions.


So are you saying that Dirty Hand is not a member of the police? Is that what you mean?  I need help...as usual.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on March 08, 2008, 05:07:48 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:37 pm

DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon

So, he is not Dutch & not Aruban. What nationality is he?

Literally one would think it means someone that is not from NL or Aruba.

Yet, child of Babylon infers - not a young person of Dutch decent. Could mean an older person that is Dutch.

Not Arawak meaning - not descended from the original islanders. Could be borne there, but I think locals mean one has to have been there for several generations to be considered Aruban(Arawak).

Could also be an elder person of Dutch and Aruban parents that are not considered Arawak.

Could be someone that was borne there and not of Dutch or Aruban heritage.

Could be someone that settled there from another country than NL or Aruba.

If we assume that Shango was trying to help and if what he stated is true, then we must find someone that fits one of these criteria of birth and origin.

I think these are things that only the locals may know.

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 08, 2008, 07:09:31 AM
not the son of a babylonian elder

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew the girl.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:36 pm
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 08, 2008, 07:12:38 AM
DirtyHand is the key that opened the door to the Lion's Den, and, if an Arawak entered to probe the maze's fetid depths, what would he/she find?

Arawaks!

All the Arawaks know the maze that plays the poison songs

but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake
even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed

His reach is long (yeah, long arm)

Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house,
and so DirtyHand was discovered
But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings

A sacrifice will be made to spare the polis (dirty hand won't sing)

DirtyHand is not an Arawak

DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left

Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon?
DirtyHand knows, this is his Power
there will be 46 sacrifices

Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.
But not to satiate desire. (holds the real key!)


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open?
Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths.

why don’t the arawaks ambush the lions? (who are the lions??)
The cowboys don’t know.
DirtyHand knows, but is afraid of the Arawak Nation


Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:11 am
All the Arawaks know the Maze which plays the poison songs

The Arawak king has DirtyHands and DirtyFeet. If he is to reign anew, he cannot be soiled more.


Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid Arawak King who wishes to blame the babylonians for the behaviour of lowly minions.


So are you saying that Dirty Hand is not a member of the police? Is that what you mean?  I need help...as usual.


Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation
meet
, under cover of delusion. (to "play")
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.
Tell the cowboys!

why don’t the arawaks ambush the lions? (who are the lions??)
The cowboys don’t know.
DirtyHand knows, but is afraid of the Arawak Nation


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 08, 2008, 01:17:35 PM
Where is the Maze?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on March 08, 2008, 01:29:58 PM
Where is the Maze?

I do not believe the maze is a place.  I believe the maze is the system that makes the game work.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 08, 2008, 05:26:39 PM
The "house" (of gold bricks) with the path.......

http://www.group-sales.com/resorts/aruba/wyndham_aruba.php

 We offer a daily promotion which is specially designed to give you the most probabilities to walk away with your pockets filled with merchandise, cash, restaurant discount coupons, weekend stays and even a new car! (the road is not paved)

We also feature a special high limit exclusive area (the path to the maze!!!!) ::MonkeyEek::

The Casino Bar offers specialty drink favorites and live music which will keep the rhythm of the night pumping.   ::MonkeyCool::

We offer five extraordinary restaurants with gourmet cuisine to please every palate - from continental to authentic Caribbean.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 08, 2008, 05:27:27 PM
Open from midday until the early hours, this "Gaming Paradise" offers the excitement of your favorite traditional and classic table games, in a glamorous, glittering Arabic atmosphere.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 08, 2008, 06:30:57 PM
Where is the Maze?
Who are the Elders?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 08, 2008, 06:34:27 PM
posted by tamikosmom in case discussion

Dave Holloway
Corruption in Paradise

Page 183: I asked Jacobs to print me out another copy of my statement, and Art Wood came walking in.  He noticed a computer printout on the wall about Natalee’s case.  It was a flowchart with all of the suspects and interested parties on it.  He noticed that one person who we thought was a suspect, Lorenzo van Rijn, rumoured to be Joran’s half brother, was not on it.  We had been told that he might have had some connection to Natalee’s disappearance.  He is supposedly known on the island by the nickname Xtacy.   Art was trying to figure out how the flowchart worked, and he noticed that some of the names were significantly larger than others.  He asked Jacobs what that symbolized, and Jacobs responded that it was just the way the computer printed it out.  Art asked him where Lorenzo was, and Jacobs said that Lorenzo had nothing to do with Natalee’s case, so he doesn’t have to be on the flow chart.   We left, and Art commented on Jacobs’ reaction.  There is talk in Aruba that Lorenzo is a known drug dealer who lives in a compound on the island with a remote-controlled sliding gate, television monitors, and razor wire all around the top of the fence.  Apparently, you cannot get into that place.  It looks like a prison camp.  Since Lorenzo is suppose to be related to Joran, if the boys got drugs to give Natalee, they may have gotten them from him.

Maybe you all knew already but it just caught my eye


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 08, 2008, 06:38:44 PM
Sounds like the hidden card that was played (by PVDS)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on March 08, 2008, 06:46:18 PM
Sounds like the hidden card that was played (by PVDS)
Hidden card meaning illegitimate son....XTCDNA???


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on March 08, 2008, 07:05:53 PM
Sounds like the hidden card that was played (by PVDS)

Played and lost according to Shango.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 08, 2008, 07:17:51 PM
posted by tamikosmom in case discussion

Dave Holloway
Corruption in Paradise

Page 183: I asked Jacobs to print me out another copy of my statement, and Art Wood came walking in.  He noticed a computer printout on the wall about Natalee’s case.  It was a flowchart with all of the suspects and interested parties on it.  He noticed that one person who we thought was a suspect, Lorenzo van Rijn, rumoured to be Joran’s half brother, was not on it.  We had been told that he might have had some connection to Natalee’s disappearance.  He is supposedly known on the island by the nickname Xtacy.   Art was trying to figure out how the flowchart worked, and he noticed that some of the names were significantly larger than others.  He asked Jacobs what that symbolized, and Jacobs responded that it was just the way the computer printed it out.  Art asked him where Lorenzo was, and Jacobs said that Lorenzo had nothing to do with Natalee’s case, so he doesn’t have to be on the flow chart.   We left, and Art commented on Jacobs’ reaction.  There is talk in Aruba that Lorenzo is a known drug dealer who lives in a compound on the island with a remote-controlled sliding gate, television monitors, and razor wire all around the top of the fence.  Apparently, you cannot get into that place.  It looks like a prison camp.  Since Lorenzo is suppose to be related to Joran, if the boys got drugs to give Natalee, they may have gotten them from him.

Maybe you all knew already but it just caught my eye

He is also called "locoman" just like Freddy. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 08, 2008, 07:22:21 PM
Sounds like the hidden card that was played (by PVDS)

Played and lost according to Shango.

What would be Paulus' purpose of exposing Lorenzo? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 08, 2008, 07:26:29 PM
save his ass


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 08, 2008, 07:28:49 PM
Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Who said the alibi played for the Van Der Sloot’s? The 5th suspect is waltzing away.
Posted Jun 24, 10:45 AM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Evening Update; Natalee Holloway” | View Post

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 08, 2008, 07:35:26 PM
the maze is difficult for the supposed guilty even if innocent

Shango: why did the girl owe money?

His Lordship (preserving babylon) and the 46th in the maze:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRK-CQVQevQ


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on March 08, 2008, 07:35:55 PM
Shango uses the term ‘house’ as an esoteric term.  He uses ‘house of babylon’ and the ‘Royal House’.  While the Royal House is something that does exist, consider who is part of the Royal House.  You would think anyone in the Royal family would be part of the Royal House.  Not so.  For instance, you may be part of the Royal family, but if you marry a commoner you are no longer part of the Royal House.

The Babylonian house, I believe, is a reference to the dutch elite in Aruba.  These are well to do Dutch expatriates who do as they please on Aruba.  They are protected by the likes of Jan Van Der Straten and Karin Janssen.  Both are Dutch, yet hold critical positions on Aruba even though Aruba is ‘independent’ of Holland except in matters of national defense and ….the judiciary.  Convenient. 

The house of rave is also esoteric.  Rave is to party without any inhibitions often accompanied by the use of drugs such as ecstacy.  Shango seems to imply that the Dutch and young Arubans do this together from time to time.  However, it’s not out in the open.  The Babylonians are the Dutch elite and are not normally associated with commoners on Aruba.  I think Paulus was a fringe member of the Dutch elite.  He would like to consider himself part of the House of Babylon, but he never quite makes it in.  He’s just Dutch in Aruba, which is better than any other Nationality on Aruba.

Shango uses these terms to get across to us that there is a caste system of sorts in Aruba.  The one that has distracted us the most is House of Rave.  Interesting in that if you think of ‘house’ in an esoteric fashion you are not looking for a specific place as much as you would be looking for a group of people who provide all of the required elements of an uninhibited ‘good time’.  Where else to find such a group but those involved in the the tourist trade. 

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA

One straight path is the beach where you find most of the hotels and casinos that attract the tourists.  These are manmade beaches (not paved) that cost a great deal of money (gold bricks) to create.  If you look into this “House of Rave” and you know the exercise of Magical Letters you may find some answers.

http://www.udel.edu/eli/2006P4L/badr2.pdf

Shango never truly clarifies the ‘House of Rave’ as a particular place.  One poster guesses that ‘it’ is a country house with different rooms where things happen.  Could this description not also apply to hotels and/or timeshares?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 08, 2008, 07:40:09 PM
if you lose at blackjack, who is the winner?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 08, 2008, 07:41:13 PM
house of rave=where you find lions

lions rave, too


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on March 08, 2008, 07:44:52 PM
house of rave=where you find lions

lions rave, too

Many of the Dutch flags have an emblem depicting a Lion.  Coincidence???????????   Maybe.  Maybe not.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on March 08, 2008, 07:45:26 PM
if you lose at blackjack, who is the winner?

The House.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 08, 2008, 08:09:45 PM
Is there a chronological document of the shango/simian posts that also shows other posters responses to what they said? I have a feeling that Shango/Simian use their metaphors loosely on occasion. It would be interested to see in which posts they respond to other posters and in which posts they seem to reveal details about the case. For example in some posts Babylon seems to refer to dutch or holland where as in others it is very plausible that it refers to Babylon as coruption in general


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on March 08, 2008, 10:43:15 PM
LALA:

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:04 am
Observe all communications from Shango and judge from their worth….DirtyHand is the the Keystone!The lamb is in ther fold, and the shivas.  Threadsurfers, if they cannot out a lamb to manger, how will they deal with lions?DirtyHand is the key and may leave soon to avoid   attention from the cowboys and the fort

I thought you have this already solved.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 08, 2008, 11:29:29 PM
LALA:

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:04 am
Observe all communications from Shango and judge from their worth….DirtyHand is the the Keystone!The lamb is in ther fold, and the shivas.  Threadsurfers, if they cannot out a lamb to manger, how will they deal with lions?DirtyHand is the key and may leave soon to avoid   attention from the cowboys and the fort

I thought you have this already solved.



I do..they don't. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 08, 2008, 11:35:12 PM
Is there a chronological document of the shango/simian posts that also shows other posters responses to what they said? I have a feeling that Shango/Simian use their metaphors loosely on occasion. It would be interested to see in which posts they respond to other posters and in which posts they seem to reveal details about the case. For example in some posts Babylon seems to refer to dutch or holland where as in others it is very plausible that it refers to Babylon as coruption in general

Simian says the babylonians are the gamblers so would that not make babylon the casinos?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 08, 2008, 11:35:57 PM
if you lose at blackjack, who is the winner?

The House?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on March 08, 2008, 11:47:38 PM
if you lose at blackjack, who is the winner?
The Dealer


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 08, 2008, 11:54:23 PM
Colombo I have yet to see anything that even suggests that Lorenzo is the 5th.  Don't get me wrong that would be my ideal suspect...you know that...but there is nothing that indicates that Lorenzo hung out with Joran or the other pimps.  I would like to see something that would support this other than just Shango says.

There is much that points to Freddy as the 5th. He was known to hang out with Joran on the beach and pick out the girls.  He to was rumored to be at a party and had two girls give statements which are most likley his alibi.  He is mentioned by the Kalpoes on several occasions as to needing to tell the truth.  I think we even found some evidence that he was in the casinos with Joran.

No doubt I would love for Lorenzo to be the 5th...but I am still waiting for that connection.  Is there anyone that can show indications that Lorenzo is the 5th other than Shango says?

I do not recall a post where Shango mentions the "5th suspect".  Simian posted many times about a 5th suspect.  Simian was somehow 'connected' to ALE, therefore I have never been sure that information coming from Simian was anything more than what ALE wanted people to know or think.  jmho
  The 5th suspect is GCV.  There were others who were brought in as witnesses, but Guido and GCV were suspects.  The list reads him being arrested 5th.  That may be the reason for so much "protecting" going on.  GVC's dad is in charge of the videos and knows if JVS gets sunk his son goes along with it.  GVC's sister works for LE in Aruba and knew what evidence there was and had friends as well as Vanderstratten was friends with at least GVC and Jorn.  Joran is getting more flack than GVC, but I have reason to believe he was deeply involved as Joran and his dad and may have used his service revolver.    He and Guido are waltzing away from being suspects in the more serious crimes to allow Joran to take full accountability along with his family.  I also believe some of the kids may have mentioned to that pack of wolves that NH was not a wild girl and was probably a virgin and not to treat her like she was loose.  This part I am theorizing on in that I have heard nothing about anyone saying about her being a nice girl, etc. to them) but as evil as they are this could have made them even more inclined to "teach her a lesson."         jack blue


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 09, 2008, 12:03:07 AM
Is there a chronological document of the shango/simian posts that also shows other posters responses to what they said? I have a feeling that Shango/Simian use their metaphors loosely on occasion. It would be interested to see in which posts they respond to other posters and in which posts they seem to reveal details about the case. For example in some posts Babylon seems to refer to dutch or holland where as in others it is very plausible that it refers to Babylon as coruption in general

I would be happy to find them for you if you will tell me which ones you want.  I have posted some of them in context already on past pages. 29 and up to about 38 or so..


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 09, 2008, 12:31:31 AM
When was GVC first questioned?   That is as elusive as when was Freddy's first statement?  Also, to be the 5th he has to be a suspect, but in Aruba this is sometimes interchangeable with witness.  He has to be someone Natalee met within the first day or so. What kind of alibi did he have?  Who provided it?  Was he giving a party?  This is what Simian says and I posted it in context so the conversation would be easier to understand.  I think it's Lorenzo...Mum thinks it's Freddy.  Both were arrested/detained and questioned and provided alibis.  Can we do that with GVC or Guido?  If so then they are just as viable for being the 5th also.




Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:56 pm

The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.



# MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 4:57 pm

Stefe:

****yawn****

You’re boring me.


# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 4:57 pm

Sim - what is the other side of the pond? Is it a place, or is it an organization?


# ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:58 pm

wat alibi does the 5ht suspect have??


# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 4:59 pm

Who is the 5th suspect? There are now 4. Who is the 5th?


# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 4:59 pm

“the other side of the pond” - the Aruban Mafia


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:00 pm

The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:02 pm

The other side of pond I assume is the us and you are insinuting it is her friends/family involved.


# ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 5:02 pm

whose boyfriend earlier in the week??????


# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 5:02 pm

Huh Simian?


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:02 pm

What boyfriend? Whose? I am confused Sim.


# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:03 pm

This is getting really bizarre. Who’s boyfriend from earlier in the week?


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:03 pm

The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?


# MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 5:03 pm

Simian:
Boyfriend from earlier? Can you elaborate??

Thanx!


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:03 pm

Sim - i am totally lost on what you are saying.


# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:04 pm

SImian
Is #5 Van Rijn????????


#  Stefe McHearthy on June 22nd, 2005 5:04 pm

@ MOFOfromMO
And I want to say that I care about you! But you need to work on yourself! That is not easy. Nobody sais it is easy! You will receive the guidance and love you need if you step up and be honest!

Stefe.


# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:06 pm

I think he is saying NH had an earlier aquaintance during the first couple of days of the trip — I think.


# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:06 pm

crs
I think you blew the cover.


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:06 pm

Stefe - why have you gone psycho on mom, chill out.


# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:07 pm

This is BS. I don’t believe that NH family or friends had anything to do with this! This is not what this case is about. Stop trying to throw us off track here. The MAIN SUSPECTS and CULPRITS in this case are the ones that are in jail right now. I don’t think we should let anyone take us away from that. We heard from Country Moon that Nat and Family are really good people, and I believe it! I truly do! You can tell by all the pictures. I still believe it is Joran and friends!


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:07 pm

rem - you may be right.


# MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 5:07 pm

Stefe:

What exactly is your purpose in this forum????

No one cares what the hell you are talking about. Please stay on topic or go back to pre-school.


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:09 pm

A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.



# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:11 pm

Was the lover on the trip??


# Stefe McHearthy on June 22nd, 2005 5:12 pm

@ MOFOfromMO
You know it is exactly on topic.
Do what you feel is right.


# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:12 pm

Sim -Surely your not saying a local MT brook boyfriend would be involved in this, would you.


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:13 pm

A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.


# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:14 pm

Sim -I think your reaching


# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:15 pm

How could a local MT boyfriend be involved. The FBI would have cracked this case already through phone records and the internet. I don’t believe this. This is yet ANOTHER rumor!


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:16 pm

He had to be let go.



# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:16 pm

Does seem a little far fetched.


# born 2 b wild on June 22nd, 2005 5:17 pm

I love the cock fighting that goes on in this blog -complete w/razor blades attached to the spurs

We should take odds on the hour for the latest round

Right now we got Stefe in this corner and MOM from MO (the “show me MOM”) in that corner

p.s: checkme - check this


# Kristin on June 22nd, 2005 5:17 pm

COUNTRY MOON:

Thank you for taking the time to come on and talk to us. We appreciate your time, even though we can’t imagine how hard this must be for you and your community-we do understand. We all have been pretty caught up in this case, it’s tearing everyone apart. People have been listening to the news, radio and checking online forums faithfully. We all want Natalee to be safe, and we all understand that there is more to the story. As typical Americans though, we don’t understand WHY we can’t hear the truth. We know that Mrs. Twitty is keeping it together for SOME reason other than the simple hope of Natalee being alive. She has to KNOW that she is alive. Any information that we hear is helpful…and just the fact that you say OUTLOUD that there is more to the story keeps us all hanging on. It is hard to try and justify what Natalee is really like, when we don’t know her and we hear all of the rumors. It would help us all to understand MORE if we knew if Natalee has dissapeared before. But as you said, you probably can’t answer that.
I figured I would give it a shot anyways, and if you still can’t answer, I respect that.
Do you believe that she is alive but in another country?


# sunny71 on June 22nd, 2005 5:17 pm

Some insight from a local:
the coverage of this case is ridiculous, but I can understand the fixation on the ‘exoticness’ of this case, what with the weird Aruban laws and all.
Fact is, the police here has every interest in getting this thing resolved asap, if only because of the negative publicity.
The investigators screwed up in the beginning, because vdSloot Sr. is well known in those circles and they took Jr.’s story at face value at first. Understandable under the circumstances, but stupid in hindsight.
Jr. would have confessed a long time ago if he had done it. Interrogations by the local police are not a walk in the park for the suspects, as some of you might think. Aruban police knows a thing or two about pressuring a suspect.
My question is: did NH go back to her hotelroom and sneak out that night and are her roommates keeping mum about that? Just a thought.
I think Steve Croes and the Kalpoe’s should be the focus.


# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:17 pm

Good try Sim….I hope this story (rumor) breaks tonight. That will mean more air time for the Natalee Case!!!


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:18 pm

Sim - again is this your theory or something more concrete?


# MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 5:19 pm

Hey Sim?

Didn’t you mention earlier that when you were ‘awaiting moderation’, that it occurred when you typed (the word for a place to gamble)???


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:20 pm

Kristin - Country seemed to discount that earlier that she had been kidnapped and was possibly on another island - she seemed to point the finger at Van Der Sloot.


# MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 5:21 pm

Born 2 B Wild:

Now, don’t get excited. I’m not in any corner, cuz I don’t humor TROLLS for long.

Besides, I’ve already flushed him down the commode with the rest of his little ‘brown friends’.

***Whhhhaaaa-Shhhhhhhhhh***


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:22 pm

This is not my theory. This is for real.

[/b]





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 09, 2008, 12:48:04 AM
Is there a chronological document of the shango/simian posts that also shows other posters responses to what they said? I have a feeling that Shango/Simian use their metaphors loosely on occasion. It would be interested to see in which posts they respond to other posters and in which posts they seem to reveal details about the case. For example in some posts Babylon seems to refer to dutch or holland where as in others it is very plausible that it refers to Babylon as coruption in general

yes, this is what I've said since June 2005

I'm sure the FP links have been posted before
but sorta tedious searching for them ...
which is why Lala's index will come in handy

(I'm working on my portion, Lala's, I really am, LOL.
will ship you some more very soon)

I've converted the FP links into tiny urls so as not to blow the margins

don't have a time log for simian posts as shango was my thing,
but AFAIK this is when shango posted/approximate time/aruba clock:

june 26th: 7am to 3:12pm
8 hours

june 27th: 8pm to 4am
8 hours

june 28th: 4am to 7pm
double shift
15 hours

june 29th: OFF

june 30th: 6pm to 7pm
1 hour

I never tracked the simian post links ...
sim began posting around june 17, yes?

the front page is sorta squirrelly as the threads run simultaneously.
ie: people could be posting in 2 different places at 10am on june 26

below are links to the Front Page posts
during the week of the quarry search when shango started posting
 
CheckMe & Shock the Monkey were also predicting big news
the day before the TES search just like sim was ...

you know when shango posted so you look at the articles
from somewhere around those dates/times to find shango's comments

98 comments/beginning june 25, 2005 @ 11:56pm
http://tinyurl.com/2pd79v
7:45am
22. What's the morning news Shock?

8:58am
42. Morning, all. Did the judge from Curacao make the flight to Aruba today?

9:11am
49. yes, judge is at courthouse I just heard. Satish's lawyer thinks Satish will be free today. Grrrrr

9:25am
56. Well it is morning so where is the news that Shock was talking about?


1001 comments/beginning june 26, 2005 @ 2:33pm
http://tinyurl.com/hyfw3
6:52am
71. bye for now folks...wish shocked monkey would come on...he/she had me so hopeful last night...that there would be answers...seems their theory is seriously challenged now

10:03pm
219. The alibi needs to be broken. The dogs have pouches on their feet. They are checking the dirty waters in Noord.

The Babylonians knew what the girl did earlier in the week. Therein lies the motive. The third act will [be] played soon, but the boy is not Ajax. He is too afraid to pull off such a feat.

11:23pm
361. Maybe last night's poster was given wrong information that the package from the Hague would be arriving this morning. Maybe it's arriving tomorrow instead. Perhaps the judge who "missed the plane" on Saturday was trying to delay the hearing until he or she could review this package. But it never came, and time required the hearing be held today without it.

some shango posts: 128-129-168-169-173-175-177
some simian posts: 170-203-219

221 comments/beginning june 27, 2005 @ 11:56am
http://tinyurl.com/hg2dk
12:28pm
26. Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 AM posting

743 comments/beginning june 27, 2005
http://tinyurl.com/gkqkz
9:41pm
68. One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letter which spell
XTC DNA

june 26/the night before the search, actually at 12:39am on june 27,
not long after midnight sim said:
"watch tomorrow but do not speak & it will all unfold before you"

the day of the search, june 27 at 12:08pm, sim says:
"They have found her. Watch your news stations for this one.
I said this was to happen. THEY FOUND HER BODY!!

3 minutes later sim says in spanish (& Ally translates)
"he said to keep watching the news,
and that he apologizes for the confusion,
but he is tired of people trying to impersonate him"

the search dogs "hit" in late morning/early afternoon.
until late night/midnight we were still waiting to hear official word
of what they may have found: nothing

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 AM posting. If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found.

finally, after midnight, when nothing was "admitted" to be found & posters were seriously criticizing the codetalkers:

http://tinyurl.com/gkqkz
1:43am
623. The Simian has a handicap of 12

1:53am
635. The Simian says that The Simian only reports developments ahead of time. The Simian thinks what is going on is shameless. Playing with people's feelings.

[etc/etc, you know these posts well]

1:54am
637. So Shango is schizophrenic and his other personality is Simian. That is priceless you sick freak.

then sim/shango have their big catfight.
sim is really insulted by the criticism from the other posters

2:01am
648. The Simian is getting out. Knows Shango, knows Shock me, knows Checkme. Do not underestimate the power of the ping.

Shango is a dumb copycat. Maybe the Simian should place a call on you. Get you 8 days with a hole to take a dump in. Complementary peanut butter on stale bread for you, you fool.

The Simian is angry. Over and out.

6:56am
725. See, this is kind of ridiculous. We've got folks who say they are on the inside or at least close enough to understand what is going [on], they are arguing back and forth and "calling each other out". The above seems to say that Simian can ping Shock/Check and they all know each other. Simian could make a call and get Shango taken in to jail?

What a joke folks, screw this, if you know something F*cking do something besides act like children as you fight over clue supremacy. Knowing something and doing nothing, or not ending something you could help to, serves only to build your ego folks.

don't be discouraged ...
soon you'll be navigating thru the FP
like a well-oiled machine




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on March 09, 2008, 12:56:08 AM
Lala's... Isn't Lorenzo's alibi that He was home all night and never left....well if Natalee was TAKEN to His house then He WAS home all night so therefore He never left...Does that make sense.... ::MonkeyConfused::  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 09, 2008, 01:40:16 AM
Lala's... Isn't Lorenzo's alibi that He was home all night and never left....well if Natalee was TAKEN to His house then He WAS home all night so therefore He never left...Does that make sense.... ::MonkeyConfused::  ::MonkeyHaHa::

not Lala's, but yes ...

June 28th, 2005 12:28am shango says:
Not all lions leave their den




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: katrien on March 09, 2008, 01:41:51 AM
Klaassend, will you please take my last lost away? I posted accidently in the wrong subject.
I see also a few mistakes. I place the post in the other subject again.

Will you to that for me?

Thanks a lot and sorry for the trouble.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on March 09, 2008, 01:50:32 AM
Klaassend, will you please take my last lost away? I posted accidently in the wrong subject.
I see also a few mistakes. I place the post in the other subject again.

Will you to that for me?

Thanks a lot and sorry for the trouble.
I erased your post but you posted some good info :( and I hope you post it in the main thread. From what I have heard Joran killed his Dog and tried to blame it on a friend. It was also reported by Peter R,and I believe Joran killed him with a paintball gun. Also there is much talk/rumors about Lorenzo killing dogs in june/july at RWV.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on March 09, 2008, 01:50:52 AM
Klaassend, will you please take my last lost away? I posted accidently in the wrong subject.
I see also a few mistakes. I place the post in the other subject again.

Will you to that for me?

Thanks a lot and sorry for the trouble.

I don't see anything in this thread so maybe ******* or San took care of it already.  If not let me know  ::MonkeyWink::

Edited to add:  Thanks *******!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: katrien on March 09, 2008, 03:02:34 AM
Klaassend, will you please take my last lost away? I posted accidently in the wrong subject.
I see also a few mistakes. I place the post in the other subject again.

Will you to that for me?

Thanks a lot and sorry for the trouble.

I don't see anything in this thread so maybe ******* or San took care of it already.  If not let me know  ::MonkeyWink::

Edited to add:  Thanks *******!

The post is in the other subject now, but thanks anyway. :)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on March 09, 2008, 05:42:14 AM
So.

How does ag know Shango?

She is on Aruba and Shango is supposedly in FLA.

Shango would have to be from or lived on Aruba at one point in time.

How does ag have the "power of the ping"?

I would think that it would be extremely, extremely difficult for a poster to have the power to trace someone through an internet BB. A super hacker - maybe.

How can this be?

If one notices at the bottom right of each post, it states "Logged".
Click it and a window pops up -
"Your IP address is shown only to you and moderators. remember that this information is not identifying, and that most IPs change periodically.

You cannot see other member's IP addresses, and they cannot see yours."

So.

Did someone ever supply ag with the IP addy or location of Shango?

Shango knew when the Dopple was there because they had a common friend. Either a phone call, email or IM was sent when the mother came home. The mother was the Dopple. I do not believe that anyone was posting as a Dopple unless it was the mother. I believe that it was meant that the mother had simply arrived home.

So, how so, how the power of the ping?

I once knew a penguin that could ping.

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 09, 2008, 09:29:13 AM
Lala's... Isn't Lorenzo's alibi that He was home all night and never left....well if Natalee was TAKEN to His house then He WAS home all night so therefore He never left...Does that make sense.... ::MonkeyConfused::  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Certainly, it makes sense.  I have always maintained that the 5th suspect didn't have to leave to do his dirty work.  Maybe what the 5th suspect did was nothing more than "make arrangements" if you get m;y drift.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 09, 2008, 09:41:42 AM
So.

How does ag know Shango?

She is on Aruba and Shango is supposedly in FLA.

Shango would have to be from or lived on Aruba at one point in time.

How does ag have the "power of the ping"?

I would think that it would be extremely, extremely difficult for a poster to have the power to trace someone through an internet BB. A super hacker - maybe.

How can this be?

If one notices at the bottom right of each post, it states "Logged".
Click it and a window pops up -
"Your IP address is shown only to you and moderators. remember that this information is not identifying, and that most IPs change periodically.

You cannot see other member's IP addresses, and they cannot see yours."

So.

Did someone ever supply ag with the IP addy or location of Shango?

Shango knew when the Dopple was there because they had a common friend. Either a phone call, email or IM was sent when the mother came home. The mother was the Dopple. I do not believe that anyone was posting as a Dopple unless it was the mother. I believe that it was meant that the mother had simply arrived home.

So, how so, how the power of the ping?

I once knew a penguin that could ping.

Fin


Only Mods and Admin can see other posters IP address.  I don't think I ever saw my own IP on the FP. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 09, 2008, 12:20:40 PM
Truthseeker pointed out to me that this video has shades of Shango in it....so I asked for the link...
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=UpxYEdXpjcw


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 09, 2008, 12:26:40 PM
about the fifth suspect

http://renevannie.com/inhoud/kritisch/_kritisch2005.html

....Er is wel een 5de verdachte gearresteerd vanmorgen om vijf over zes en de politie geeft alleen de initialen. Weet alleen dat de laatste letter een C. is. Waarom opeens die geheimzinnigheid?
We zullen het spoedig weten...

... a fifth suspect has been arrested this morning at five past six Police will only give initials. I only know the last letter is a C. Why the secrecy? we will know soon...

Rene van Nie is a dutch cinematographer/writer that lives on aruba


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 09, 2008, 12:29:36 PM
about the fifth suspect

http://renevannie.com/inhoud/kritisch/_kritisch2005.html

....Er is wel een 5de verdachte gearresteerd vanmorgen om vijf over zes en de politie geeft alleen de initialen. Weet alleen dat de laatste letter een C. is. Waarom opeens die geheimzinnigheid?
We zullen het spoedig weten...

... a fifth suspect has been arrested this morning at five past six Police will only give initials. I only know the last letter is a C. Why the secrecy? we will know soon...

Rene van Nie is a dutch cinematographer/writer that lives on aruba


DE JONGEN DIE ZE HEBBEN OPGEPAKT IS DJ OP EEN PARTYBOOT -DE TATTOO- EN ZIJN ACHTERNAAM IS CROES. 26 JAAR

The guy they arrested is a DJ on a party boat The Tattoo his last name is croes 26 years old


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 09, 2008, 12:39:53 PM
about the fifth suspect

http://renevannie.com/inhoud/kritisch/_kritisch2005.html

....Er is wel een 5de verdachte gearresteerd vanmorgen om vijf over zes en de politie geeft alleen de initialen. Weet alleen dat de laatste letter een C. is. Waarom opeens die geheimzinnigheid?
We zullen het spoedig weten...

... a fifth suspect has been arrested this morning at five past six Police will only give initials. I only know the last letter is a C. Why the secrecy? we will know soon...

Rene van Nie is a dutch cinematographer/writer that lives on aruba


DE JONGEN DIE ZE HEBBEN OPGEPAKT IS DJ OP EEN PARTYBOOT -DE TATTOO- EN ZIJN ACHTERNAAM IS CROES. 26 JAAR

The guy they arrested is a DJ on a party boat The Tattoo his last name is croes 26 years old

I am posting as i read this guys page sorry for quoting myself
Croes arrested on a friday at 06.05
PVDS arrested saturday questioned for 4 hours arrested again  the next thursday at 14.00

This guy has lots of info on his site almost on a day to day basis ill keep reading interesting


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 09, 2008, 12:55:16 PM
From the friday after PVDS arrest

(Online translation)

Paul of of the ditch continue be stuck anyway 48 hours, then it is decided if that is extended with 8 days.
Its son Joran now admits that he has only remained that night behind with the little girl on the range of Marriot.
And that he has Natalee there left behind.
If that where how he has then at home come without car?

Moreover its father, a man who must and applies follow the rules of the law it finds absolutely no problem that its son on 17jarige age drives car - therefore it is not insured because he has no drivers licenses
and night-long can sit gamble in casinos where you years also 18 for must be.

Father assumes  therefore completely arrogantly that if  problems arise from his sons actions he will take care of them. I find that the man even if he didn't do anything should be removed from the island


Furthermore I have, however, trust in the Dutch commissioner Jan of of the streets. He is a man who does not love nonsense and certain not stupid is. He will close himself thus let impress by right v.d. Sloot "the judge"
Moreover there are staying at the v.d.Sloten house a man in a high position in the dutch OM.
That creates a very found oneself picture. This then again is arrogance of another justice man? Where that knakker nevertheless the bravados obtain from - some judges and other one occasional in this case - a type of above the law to put itself. They are there serve the citizen but those assholes frequently twist the affair for.
We on Aruba therefore everything must do the right to irrespective of which to apply. I count thereby on Jan v.d. straten.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: San on March 09, 2008, 12:55:44 PM
I don't know if this link was posted on this thread but a kind monkey sent this to me and thought you would want to look/use it for reference:

http://www.mcharvey.com/shango/shango.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 09, 2008, 12:55:54 PM
It is confusing since Steve Croes was the 4th person arrested according to U.S. media.  Right after his early morning arrest, there was someone else arrested.  Mum did extensive research on this and has it somewhere in this thread.  Let me see what I can find.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 09, 2008, 12:56:35 PM
I don't know if this link was posted on this thread but a kind monkey sent this to me and thought you would want to look/use it for reference:

http://www.mcharvey.com/shango/shango.html

Thanks San. It is in here somewhere...LOL 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 09, 2008, 01:09:08 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159862,00.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/17/world/main702601.shtml


Shortly after this the forums and blogs began talking about another person arrested.  This is where Mum has been researching heavily on Freddy being that person.  I am sure she can find it faster than I can.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 09, 2008, 01:13:55 PM
It is confusing since Steve Croes was the 4th person arrested according to U.S. media.  Right after his early morning arrest, there was someone else arrested.  Mum did extensive research on this and has it somewhere in this thread.  Let me see what I can find.

It might be a mix up of arrested and suspect

The way i see it

arrests in chronological order:
JVDS
Satish
Deepak
Croes
PVDS

Suspects in chronological order:
JVDS
Satish
Deepak
Pvds
Croes


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on March 09, 2008, 01:14:26 PM
I did a lot of research on the questioning and arrests on June 16th and it was definetly LVR that was taken in that day and questioned. This video was just taken off the net but is interesting.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0Jes7N13Kg

4th suspect arrested friend of JVDS..
In addition fox News has learned that police have questioned a 5th man..Not necesarily a suspect but a witness that they brought into the police station yesterday and questioned him for a while..


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 09, 2008, 02:12:39 PM
Somewhere between Steve Croes and Paulus van der Sloot is a mystery person that may no really be a mystery after all.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 09, 2008, 02:15:19 PM


FREDDY – Is he the 5th. Suspect?

Revised as I think Tamikosmom has found the missing pieces of the puzzle.

I have inserted two entries which I believe show that Freddy was indeed a suspect some time between June 16th. And 28th. 2005 in the Natalee Holloway case.


Reply #29 on: Yesterday at 11:13:51 AM quote Tamiksmom»   
 

Logic implies that Freddy Arambatzis 6th and 7th declarations ... the declaration that affirms Joran van der Sloot's words in the Peter Devries' video recording ... are missing.

I hope John Q. Kelly is looking into this.

Janet

+++++++++++++


FREDDY ARAMBATZIS

Joran van der Sloot
De Zaak Natalee Holloway


Page 160/161

After Freddy's second statement on June 13th at 18:30, in which he keeps insisting that I told him the first story already on May 30th, the police confront us as best friends with each other.  Some further statements follow after that.  In the end Freddy states in his 6th and 7th statements that I have told him that Natalee went unconscious several times and did not regain consciousness at a certain moment, that I tried to wake her up by shaking her but that but this also did not work.

Unofficial Engish translation

+++++++++++

Phil McGraw Disclosure Log
Name: Freddy Alexander Arambatzis
Date: 12 June 2005 / 11:05
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Juan Boezem
Description: witness statement of Joran van der Sloot's neighbor/friend
 
Name: loran van der Sloot & Freddy Arambatzis
Date; 13 June 2005118:30
Pages: 2
Writer/lnitiator: Dennis Jacobs I Juan Boezem
Description: transcript of a face to face meeting
 
Name: Freddy Alexander Arambaizis
Date: 13 June 2005 / 17:00
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator. Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement
 
Name: Freddy Alexander Arambatzis
Date: 16 June 2005115:30
Pages: 8
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement

Name: Freddy Zedan
Date:17 Juni 2005
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs, Eric Soemers
Description: witness statement

Name: Karen Martina
Date: 23 June 2005113:55
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs / Juan Boezem
Description: witness statement by a friend of Van der Sloot and Arrambatzis

Name: Carmen Aurora Jacopucci
Date: 28 June 2005 / 15:55
Pages: 6
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs /Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement by a fried of Van der Sloot and Araambatzis

Name: Freddy Alexander Zedan Arambatzis
Date:28 June 2005 / 14:25
Pages: 11
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Kelly & Haydee Nadal
Description: witness statement
 
Name: Freddy Zedan Arrambatzis
Date: 1 July 2005
Pages: 9
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Haydee Azucena
Description: witness statement
 
Name: Freddy Zedan Arrambatzis
Date:20 July 2005
Pages: 4
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs, Eric Soemers
Description: witness statement
 
Name: Freddy Alenxander Arambatzis
Date: 10 February 2006/17:15
63
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs /Eric Soemers
Description: interrogation of a suspect
Responsive to Request 41

        +++++++++++++++++++++++


Joran refused to give a statement in the morning of 6/24 until his Dad is released.

Joran then comes back in the evening and the talk is all about Karen.(There are two statements at the link below)

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/police_documents/joran624.htm




Page 160 ..from Book

You are informing me that Freddy has stated that I told him the first
story on May 30th 2005 in the afternoon. In response to your question if that is true I answer you that this could be true. You are informing me that Freddy is stating that I told him Natalee went unconscious several times on the way to the beach of the Marriott Hotel. That she at a certain moment did not regain consciousness and that we have left her on the beach. I don't know what to answer to this, because according to me, I did not tell the story to Freddy this way.

That Freddy has stated that we did not know what to do when she did not recover and that we then left her on the beach and that I left my sport
shoes behind, that is not correct.  This did not happen this way. I have left my sport shoes at the Marriott beach. I think Freddy did not correctly understand what I told him.


Jossy and statement here:

http://blogsfornatalee.com/2005/08/26/freddie-locoman-pimp-questioned-before-sells-sex-video/


In this interview Jossy Mansur confirms Freddie Arambatzis-Zedan is now being held in prison. Mansur explains that he takes sexual pictures of “unsuspecting” girls and then sells it. The girls are apparently aware and okay with the picture taking, however not with the distribution of them. No offense but I think if you allow someone to take a picture of you, especially one that claims to be “Locoman Pimp”, you should be well aware of his intent. Mansur says this guy was held in the beginning of the investigation and obviously the media was not made aware of this.  Jossy says he is probably being held because of a false alibi for Joran van der Sloot he initially gave police.

DOWNLOAD and view video here.

THE FIFTH SUSPECT

1…Joran

2….Deepak

3…Satish

4…Steve Croes….AM of 6/17/2005

5…Freddy….before 1.55 PM…6/23/2005…per Karen’s statement

6...Paulus van der Sloot…….6/23/2005…..in the nightly hours….

++++++++++


Merian Ernest Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:07 pm Post subject:

The mysterious hand...
See the hand. On the infamous picture in C&C. The boy in the middle and the Hindus on each
side.

Whose hand is on the shoulder of the Hindu on he left? Somebody is missing on this picture.
Maybe somebody was placed on this picture?

It seems more people are vanishing in this case.


Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject:

Who framed who?
Take a close look at the famous picture.

Deepak, Joran and Satish at C&C. Whose hand is on Satish's shoulder? Take another look.
A really good look.

It can never be the hand of any of the three.



This is how I go to Freddy...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 09, 2008, 02:55:11 PM
it depends on how we define the fifth suspect
are witnesses suspects, do you have to be arrested to be a suspect or is anybody that has relevance to the cas a suspect?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on March 09, 2008, 04:52:30 PM
it depends on how we define the fifth suspect
are witnesses suspects, do you have to be arrested to be a suspect or is anybody that has relevance to the cas a suspect?

A witness is some one that has information - No Arrest
A  suspect is one that is part of the crime - Arrest
a winess/suspect is someone that has information but that information makes him a suspect - Arrest depend of others who snitch
a suspect/witness is that he is involved but snitched and now has preferential treatment.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 09, 2008, 05:23:29 PM
it depends on how we define the fifth suspect
are witnesses suspects, do you have to be arrested to be a suspect or is anybody that has relevance to the cas a suspect?

A witness is some one that has information - No Arrest
A  suspect is one that is part of the crime - Arrest
a winess/suspect is someone that has information but that information makes him a suspect - Arrest depend of others who snitch
a suspect/witness is that he is involved but snitched and now has preferential treatment.



would in that case PVDS be the 5th suspect?

One more thing, disregard if irrelevant of course
DINA: Departamento di Imigration y Naturalisacion Aruba


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Destiny on March 09, 2008, 05:24:39 PM
I wonder why they change location and go to a shallow water aea.

Shango (Mat) was pointing them all thaat time where to find a secret.

their is still change the secret is still there.? 2.5 years has been gone.

I'm 23 pages behind the rest of you...but I'm gonna stick my stupid neck out...when was the concrete patio work started at the Sloot's...I *still* think the house of rave is Lorenzo's house...and yes Natalee could have been on the scummy pond with the dead dogs for a short time...aaaaaccckkkkkkk!!!!!   Running like hell from all you true Shango Tangoers...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: ocgirl on March 09, 2008, 06:20:01 PM
(snip)

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA
(snip)

\

Just reading thru....was struck by this combination of "letters"....

FWIW....I was surprised to see these abbreviations for "ecstacy" and "dna" together.....because MY PERSONAL OPINION....is that these are the two "tells" that forced the disappearance of Natalee when medical attention became necessary for her.....the presence of drugs and someone's DNA!

I return you now to your regularly scheduled decoding.....(smiling, waving, and moving on in the cage).

ocgirl



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 09, 2008, 06:24:05 PM
Hi OC! Welcome to the Shango thread.  We always welcome new ideas and thoughts. In fact just about all of us new ideas in here and they are nothing alike. LOL 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 09, 2008, 06:30:58 PM
I wonder why they change location and go to a shallow water aea.

Shango (Mat) was pointing them all thaat time where to find a secret.

their is still change the secret is still there.? 2.5 years has been gone.

I'm 23 pages behind the rest of you...but I'm gonna stick my stupid neck out...when was the concrete patio work started at the Sloot's...I *still* think the house of rave is Lorenzo's house...and yes Natalee could have been on the scummy pond with the dead dogs for a short time...aaaaaccckkkkkkk!!!!!   Running like hell from all you true Shango Tangoers...

Not only does the cryptic messenger speak of Bifrons or body movers...so did Dompig...I think...well, someone else said they moved her body more than once.  I guess if we take the landfill witness seriously then maybe they were afraid she'd be found in that landfill or as some have said...maybe there are other things there besides a body.  Putting a body in the landfill and hoping it won't be found was a bit more risky at that time...now it would be gone, of course, but at the time it could have made some nervous.  It is hard to figure out all the different locations for the body.  In the ocean, in the landfill, in the incinerator, in the pond, under the pool..etc.  She can't be in all those places...I hope not anyway...that would take me to places my mind just can't go at this time


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on March 09, 2008, 06:36:29 PM
(snip)

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA
(snip)

\

Just reading thru....was struck by this combination of "letters"....

FWIW....I was surprised to see these abbreviations for "ecstacy" and "dna" together.....because MY PERSONAL OPINION....is that these are the two "tells" that forced the disappearance of Natalee when medical attention became necessary for her.....the presence of drugs and someone's DNA!

I return you now to your regularly scheduled decoding.....(smiling, waving, and moving on in the cage).

ocgirl



Hi OC for the record (like I haven't stated this before) I agree with your thoughts about the XTC DNA....just what they say.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 09, 2008, 07:12:10 PM
Fingirl, Lala's

Thx for the links and posts that show some of the other posters comments at the time

Read through it quickly, will go back. The possibility of the house in the country where the rave parties are and the lion that does not leave his den stand out

Only those who cRave music go into the Maze

From c&c right into the basement?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on March 09, 2008, 07:36:55 PM

How does ag have the "power of the ping"?


Only Mods and Admin can see other posters IP address.  I don't think I ever saw my own IP on the FP. 

Yes, mistake on me part. Riddle was only posted on the FP.

Me thinks Mom answered Fin's rhetorical question.


Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Destiny on March 09, 2008, 08:16:02 PM
I wonder why they change location and go to a shallow water aea.

Shango (Mat) was pointing them all thaat time where to find a secret.

their is still change the secret is still there.? 2.5 years has been gone.

I'm 23 pages behind the rest of you...but I'm gonna stick my stupid neck out...when was the concrete patio work started at the Sloot's...I *still* think the house of rave is Lorenzo's house...and yes Natalee could have been on the scummy pond with the dead dogs for a short time...aaaaaccckkkkkkk!!!!!   Running like hell from all you true Shango Tangoers...

Not only does the cryptic messenger speak of Bifrons or body movers...so did Dompig...I think...well, someone else said they moved her body more than once.  I guess if we take the landfill witness seriously then maybe they were afraid she'd be found in that landfill or as some have said...maybe there are other things there besides a body.  Putting a body in the landfill and hoping it won't be found was a bit more risky at that time...now it would be gone, of course, but at the time it could have made some nervous.  It is hard to figure out all the different locations for the body.  In the ocean, in the landfill, in the incinerator, in the pond, under the pool..etc.  She can't be in all those places...I hope not anyway...that would take me to places my mind just can't go at this time

Lala's...I'll go to those *places* for you...already have...that's why I posted in the main thread last night...that I think *part* of Natalee is on land...I do think her head is no longer with her body...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on March 09, 2008, 08:27:29 PM
http://www.caribbean360.com/News/Caribbean/Stories/2008/03/03/NEWS0000005537.html

Caribbean

    Report shows Caribbean still eyed for money laundering

 
The United States State Department has released a report indicating that it's keeping a close eye on a number of Caribbean states where large amounts of money are being laundered.   
BRIDGETOWN, Barbados, March 03, 2008 - The United States State Department has released a report indicating that it's keeping a close eye on a number of Caribbean states where large amounts of money are being laundered.

The 2008 International Narcotics Control Strategy Report just released by the Department pointed to a number of countries that are 'jurisdictions of primary concern' -that is, those that are major money laundering counties.

The report identified Antigua and Barbuda, the Bahamas, Belize, Haiti and Venezuela as among those jurisdictions of primary concern, but made it clear that this classification did not speak to how these countries have been trying to stamp out the crime.

"The focus of analysis...is on the significance of the amount of proceeds laundered, not of the anti-money laundering measures taken," the report explained.

"It is not based on an assessment of the country or jurisdiction's legal framework to combat money laundering; its role in the terrorist financing problem; or the degree of its cooperation in the international fight against money laundering, including terrorist financing."

In the case of Antigua, the document noted that although it has comprehensive legislation in place to regulate its financial sector, it remains susceptible to money laundering because of its offshore financial sectors and Internet gaming industry.

"As with other countries in the region, illicit proceeds from the transshipment of narcotics are laundered in Antigua and Barbuda. Its offshore financial sector exacerbates Antigua and Barbuda's vulnerability to money laundering," the report indicated.

"Despite the comprehensive nature of the law, Antigua and Barbuda has yet to prosecute a money laundering case and there are few arrests or prosecutions."

The twin-island state's government has been urged to conduct more thorough investigations that could lead to higher numbers of arrests, prosecutions, and convictions; and train law enforcement and customs authorities to recognise money laundering typologies that fall outside the formal financial sector.

In the Bahamas, which is a regional and offshore financial centre, money laundering was said to be primarily related to financial fraud and the proceeds of drug trafficking, while Belize which does not have the same prominence in the industry, has seen the criminal activity occurring within its offshore financial sector.

According to the report, while Haiti's dire economic condition and unstable political situation inhibit it from advancing its formal financial sector, it is a major drug-transit country with money laundering activity linked to the drug trade.

"Money laundering and other financial crimes are facilitated through the banks and casinos, and through foreign currency transactions and real estate transactions," it was noted.

Venezuela was however identified as a major concern since according to the U.S report, it's "proximity to drug producing countries, weaknesses in its anti-money laundering regime, refusal to cooperate with the United States on counternarcotics activities, and rampant corruption throughout the law enforcement, judicial, banking, and banking regulatory sectors continue to make Venezuela vulnerable to money laundering."

In the other category of 'jurisdictions of concern', the Caribbean territories of Aruba, Barbados, Dominica, Grenada, Guyana, Jamaica, St. Kitts and Nevis, St. Lucia, St. Vincent, Suriname are among those listed. The classification for St. Kitts represents an improved view of the country since it was previously seen as a country that presented primary concern.

The report suggested that while the actual money laundering problem in these jurisdictions is not as acute, "they too must undertake efforts to develop or enhance their anti-money laundering regimes".


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 10, 2008, 12:56:07 AM
(snip)

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA
(snip)


Just reading thru....was struck by this combination of "letters"....

FWIW....I was surprised to see these abbreviations for "ecstacy" and "dna" together.....because MY PERSONAL OPINION....is that these are the two "tells" that forced the disappearance of Natalee when medical attention became necessary for her.....the presence of drugs and someone's DNA!

I return you now to your regularly scheduled decoding.....(smiling, waving, and moving on in the cage).

ocgirl


Hi OC for the record (like I haven't stated this before) I agree with your thoughts about the XTC DNA....just what they say.

ditto that, since the first time I read it

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:48 pm
The simplicity of Occams Razor is often outweighed
by the complexity of maintaining factors in an elemental state



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on March 10, 2008, 05:30:33 AM
(snip)

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA
(snip)


Just reading thru....was struck by this combination of "letters"....

FWIW....I was surprised to see these abbreviations for "ecstacy" and "dna" together.....because MY PERSONAL OPINION....is that these are the two "tells" that forced the disappearance of Natalee when medical attention became necessary for her.....the presence of drugs and someone's DNA!

I return you now to your regularly scheduled decoding.....(smiling, waving, and moving on in the cage).

ocgirl


Hi OC for the record (like I haven't stated this before) I agree with your thoughts about the XTC DNA....just what they say.

ditto that, since the first time I read it

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:48 pm
The simplicity of Occams Razor is often outweighed
by the complexity of maintaining factors in an elemental state



Ergo,

XTC's DNA.


Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 10, 2008, 09:52:11 AM
Lucy on June 27th, 2005 10:56 pm
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:13 pm
Lucy spoke at 10:56

watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:29 am
I think Subdude is on the right track about the media putting pressure on WHY the polis chief is leaving.

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am
Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29.   He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens the door to the lions den.

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:04 am
Observe all communications from Shango and judge from their worth….DirtyHand is the the Keystone!The lamb is in ther fold, and the shivas.  Threadsurfers, if they cannot out a lamb to manger, how will they deal with lions?DirtyHand is the key and may leave soon to avoid   attention from the cowboys and the fort


Questions for the S/S fans:

Who was the first person to say publically that Natalee was no longer alive?

Who retired...leaving Aruba?

Who was in charge of the investigation at the beginning?

My answer:
Jan Van Der Straten





According to what I originally read Babilu opened the window to Babylon and left his post at 12:01 or around that time.  Babilu means a a master of ceremonies of musician type.
Where did this word "watcher" come from?  To leave a post usually means some kind of duty or post exists to leave.  A duty on a ship or LE?  jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 10, 2008, 10:04:20 AM
Freddy was used as a patsy: a person who is easily manipulated aka as a Sucker.

The cover-up started at the beginning, lie to Freddy and have Freddy tell what he believes to be the truth. 


Maybe....but nobody heard of Freddy until August.

I think Freddy may just be the real key...

Now all we have to do is find the real 'Freddy'...

I am still wondered why they slipped him out the back door when he was released.

I bet I know who the F.A. held for 6 hours was when GVC was arrested was!!!

Oh my...what a tangled web...

Freddy Zedan Arambatzis Arends

Frederick Arends

Max Arends/Arendz

Guido/David/Lorenzo Wever

Will the real Pimps....Please stand up!

Will have to read Mirian in the morning....

We know the hand is Freddy's, but is it he real 'Freddy'?

Or is it a fake?


  GVC is the fifth suspect to be looked at as a suspect in this murder case.  Guido is also looked at as a suspect with complicity to murder, battery, etc.  The other (david who is Guido's brother) you have mentioned here were questioned as witnesses or detained to see if they had knowledge of the case.  Freddy was picked up and questioned because of another case he had on him at the time (supposedly.)  In reality he probably had pictures of the assault in his camera which Joran said he returned a camera he borrowed from Freddy.  Jack B


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 10, 2008, 12:10:05 PM
Lucy on June 27th, 2005 10:56 pm
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:13 pm
Lucy spoke at 10:56

watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:29 am
I think Subdude is on the right track about the media putting pressure on WHY the polis chief is leaving.

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am
Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29.   He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens the door to the lions den.

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:04 am
Observe all communications from Shango and judge from their worth….DirtyHand is the the Keystone!The lamb is in ther fold, and the shivas.  Threadsurfers, if they cannot out a lamb to manger, how will they deal with lions?DirtyHand is the key and may leave soon to avoid   attention from the cowboys and the fort


Questions for the S/S fans:

Who was the first person to say publically that Natalee was no longer alive?

Who retired...leaving Aruba?

Who was in charge of the investigation at the beginning?

My answer:
Jan Van Der Straten





According to what I originally read Babilu opened the window to Babylon and left his post at 12:01 or around that time.  Babilu means a a master of ceremonies of musician type.
Where did this word "watcher" come from?  To leave a post usually means some kind of duty or post exists to leave.  A duty on a ship or LE?  jack b


Watcher was a poster on the FP.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 10, 2008, 01:32:18 PM
Here are a few of the conversations that happened on the FP just before Simian appeared.  As you can see, Checkme was already posting.  They are discussing the 4th and 5th person arrested.  It is confused already by this time.  The media in USA seemed to be saying Steve Croes was arrested first and then the 5th person...notice then that both are reversed according to Checkme.


Story from FP of Scared Monkeys: June 17th, 2005
9:14am **** UPDATE ****
4th arrest made in Natalee Holloway case

9:17 am: From one of our great sources in Aruba, americaninaruba …

    today 6am police go into house in Sta Cruz where they go with one person ……with initials S.C. this arrest took place 6am this morning…surprised the family with this arrest….we got different information, but we want to get all concrete things together before we bring this news to you…..we dont want to confuse anyone! we want to say that their is suspicion that she is ALIVE! but we dont want to bring up any suspicion to anyone but we will be back with info if this person has information for this case…also in Savaneta they took someone for interogation…..we are hoping this will come to an end, with all this suspicion we believe shes alive…..stay pending…..thank you harry

****
At 9:50 am: MSNBC & Fox have just reported the arrest of a fourth suspect. A 27 year old man.
It has been confirmed by Fox speaking to individual in Justice department 4th arrest 26 year old friend of joran

Fox News now reporting: Sources: 4th Person Arrested in Aruba Mystery

    Authorities in Aruba arrested a fourth man in connection with the disappearance of missing Alabama honors student Natalee Holloway, sources told FOX News.

    The new person detained is a 26-year-old friend of Joran van der Sloot — who was with Holloway the night she disappeared, sources said. Van der Sloot, 17, has been detained but not charged.

****
Unbelievable, after 18 days a fourth suspect now confirmed arrested, 26 year old, son of a prominent businessman and alleged friend of joran van der Sloot. Aruban authorities state there is an search going on with regards to this arrest but did not state where.

The boy has the initials SGC, and his father is also high in the judiciary.

Update: 1045 There is a rumor of another person taken into custody, his father recently committed suicide and that he has had serious mental issues since. He has two homes, a house on the main road of savaneta and also another one in Seroe Alejandro, and was know for having underground parties.

This is getting a little bizarre.

From the AP: Fourth Person Detained in Holloway Disappearance

11:00 am:

    ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) - A fourth person has been detained in Aruba in the disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway, authorities announced Friday.
    The person “suspected of being involved” in Holloway’s disappearance was identified by the attorney general’s office only as a 26-year-old with the initials S.G.C. The office did not disclose the gender or say when the person was detained.

According to Top 95 via American in Aruba

The arrest this morning was of a 26 year old. There wwere 2 dutch brothers questioned yesterday may have provided some information that led to this arrest. Also , a family friend of Joran Van Der Sloot was on the radio saying the Joran was a quiet nice boy who liked to go out with friends. The station is holding out hope publicly on the radio that she may be alive.

Let us hope and pray.






#  Checkme on June 17th, 2005 1:23 pm

Connie,
The guy this morning is not Dutch. The guy they brought in last night is. However, it looks like the not-Dutch guy is JvdS’s friend and the Dutch guy is the Kalpoe’s.


# Connie on June 17th, 2005 1:27 pm

I was thinking last night, and I may be reaching a bit. What type of equipment do archiologist use to locate skeletal remains of dinosaurs? Some type of machine that sends echo waves into the earth to determine if there’s something there. I am not quite sure how this equipment works, but that may be something they could use to see if she may have been burried.


# Connie on June 17th, 2005 1:29 pm

Oh, thanks Check, then it is possible that the guy I was this morning was “Freddy” from the pics. I know initials were given, but right off hand I can’t remember what they were. and I’m too lazy to scroll up to see what it was. (lol)


# Jeff Dowder on June 17th, 2005 1:29 pm

Those Kalpoe guys look like those people who work at 7-11’s or indian restaurants.









Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 10, 2008, 02:28:09 PM
many teepees crushed......

Arawaks often go to play in the small houses of babylon with the offspring of the elders......

elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles......

all who enter the damned corridors know the dangers that await......

DirtyHand knows who provided escort........

http://msxml.excite.com/info.xcite/clickit/search?r_aid=EB5C6C961C10496492B182DC32EDCB40&r_eop=2&r_sacop=2&r_spf=0&r_cop=main-title&r_snpp=2&r_spp=0&qqn=Tz%2B9SP%24z&r_coid=372368&rawto=http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080310/us_nm/newyork_spitzer_dc_1


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 10, 2008, 02:29:32 PM
could bubba be next......??????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 10, 2008, 03:08:29 PM
could bubba be next......??????


Who is Bubba? LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 10, 2008, 03:17:03 PM
October Surprise......Spitzer's get out of jail card


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 10, 2008, 03:25:08 PM

Simian's arrival in context...he/she does not post again until June 22.




#  Checkme on June 17th, 2005 5:01 pm

We are listening to the local radio reports from the Aruba courts.


# cancon on June 17th, 2005 5:03 pm

my take on the human trafficking angle, i still say that people in tha line of business would not be foolish enough to take a middle class American girl unless they planned to get her off the island asap, in which case they are watching all this and continuing to move her, unless this is a real amateur operation

most of these slime bags grab girls that they know won’t be missed or have parents that are poor and don’t have the resources to go after them,
# cancon on June 17th, 2005 5:05 pm

why are the brothers moving, I suspect the Aruba jail is getting very crowded now, Mrs. H said more arrests are coming……..

i mean they had a missing persons case and an armed robbery all in similar time frame


# BhamNativeGirl on June 17th, 2005 5:06 pm

BhamNative Girl: are you as boring and do nothing as you seem?

- Probably. Don’t have anything good for you to sink your teeth in, just here observing as well…


# Lucy on June 17th, 2005 5:07 pm

Checkme:
Is Steve Croes the same guy with the famous loud truck?
Thanks


# blogger info on June 17th, 2005 5:07 pm

FYI - I never said FBI. My brother is an ICE (Immigration Customs Enforcement) Agent presently stationed in Curacao (no not the ones that greet you at the airport either). He works with many of the Latin American and Island Governments in concert with the FBI and DEA. I think you can figure out why he is there. Is that enough to satisfy the skeptics?


# MAD-DOG on June 17th, 2005 5:08 pm

ASHLEY
I AM FROM MOUNTAIN BROOK…SORRY I HAVE BEEN OFF LINE FOR A WHILE


# Simian on June 17th, 2005 5:08 pm

Why would anybody take this girl for the purpose of Sex Slavery? If you look up where Aruba is you will notice our proximity to South America. A lot of pretty girls and a lot of poverty. Why take an North American girl and sell her in Colombia?

People don’t just dissappear. And if Amy Bradley was the last girl to dissappear in Aruba and Natalee after 7 years, I would say that these human traffickers really suck. By the way

This thing will be solved.

Maybe after this all the North Americans bashing Aruba here should focus on Chondra Levy. Nobody knows what happened to her and it’s been awhile. Maybe you can start a “Boycott Central Park” on-line petition.


# Brianna on June 17th, 2005 5:10 pm

Bham Native Girl - so am I - what part are you from?


# blogger info on June 17th, 2005 5:10 pm

Simian -

They found Levy’s remains FYI.
# Lucy on June 17th, 2005 5:11 pm

CGI-Common Gateway Interface. I think it means traffic jam, because of the amount of visitors at one time.


# Jeff Dowder on June 17th, 2005 5:11 pm

Pretzel boy…..you remind of that kid in sixth grade who always had his hands in his pants and proceeded to smell his fingers. You’re sick !


# Canadian Girl on June 17th, 2005 5:11 pm

Blogger

I believe you about your relative, but do you know for sure whether Natalie is Alive or not?


# Gargantua on June 17th, 2005 5:12 pm

Simian- Everybody knows Gary C. had her killed


# Brianna on June 17th, 2005 5:12 pm

Lucy, thanks…now it’s not a complete mystery. These guys are getting huge with this website.


# DFW Guy on June 17th, 2005 5:12 pm

Blogger, do you think that it is possible that she is alive?


# scottie on June 17th, 2005 5:13 pm

One thing I haven’t seen the media pick up on, was what a friend of Natalee’s said in an interview on O’Reilly the other night.

He was at Carlos and Charlies that night with her, and asked her if she was alright.

You don’t ask someone if they’re ok in a bar, unless you’re concerned they’re not.

He said he saw Natalee and Joran together dancing in the club, and saw them leave together.

He was trying to be protective of her in the interview, claiming they were all ‘drinking responsibly’, but let’s be real here.

On another matter, what happened to the reported finding of panties, condoms and duct tape? Were the panties confirmed as not being Natalee’s? Certainly, her mother could verify whether they were her size or if she had even purchased them for her daughter.


# Checkme on June 17th, 2005 5:14 pm

Lucy,
So you have been paying real attention… No, this is not the same guy. Info on him is still not out yet, at least not officially.


# mostlyalurker on June 17th, 2005 5:16 pm

Chandra Levy disappeared in DC’s Rock Creek Park, not NYC’s Central Park.

The bad news with Croes is that with more people involved, anything might have happened (with just Joran and the Kalpoes, it might have just been 4 drunks and a misunderstanding gone bad). With other conspirators, it is chillingly evil.

The good news is that the more conspirators, the more likely it is to unravel.


# concerned4natalee on June 17th, 2005 5:16 pm

scottie:
it was confirmed that those items were NOT linked to natalee on the dan abrams report yesterday


# DFW Guy on June 17th, 2005 5:17 pm

The more complicated this gets, the more I think she might just be alive.


# blogger info on June 17th, 2005 5:18 pm

Canadian Girl/DFW Guy -

As said in previous post, he can not confirm whether she is alive or not but that investigation is coming together much more rapidly now. Some newer info will be coming in the next few hours - thats all I have for now. I am awaiting for email update (which he sends me through a secure/anonymous email site fro obvious reasons)


# Canadian Girl on June 17th, 2005 5:19 pm

I read earlier on here that JVDS father was allowed to see him but that his lawyer could not see him for the next 8 days because he was questioning witnesses which apparently is not allowed. Very strange laws over there. Anyone know if this is true??? Nothing on Fox or CNN about this.


# Mecha-Godzilla on June 17th, 2005 5:19 pm

DFW….good point, Natalee’s mom had an optimistic air about her the other day when she was being interviewed


# Lucy on June 17th, 2005 5:20 pm

Checkme
Yes, I have been paying attention. Also noticed that Billy is missing. I think he went to Haiti and the Dominican Republic. (Joking)



# Simian on June 17th, 2005 5:20 pm

They found them…do you know what happened? Condit has been cleared…


#  DFW Guy on June 17th, 2005 5:21 pm

One thing is for sure. If she is alive, the book and movie deals will have her set for life.


# concerned4natalee on June 17th, 2005 5:21 pm

what is the absolute latest news- anybosy know links, or can tell me?


# Checkme on June 17th, 2005 5:22 pm

Blogger info,
Tell me, if this brother of yours is so high up in a pretty confidential organization, how come you talk about this on this form?


# Simian on June 17th, 2005 5:23 pm

By the way, they found Levy’s remains a full year after she went missing. In a place where they did search numerous times.

Give the authorities a chance.

Maybe this girl doesn’t want to be found.


# Canadian Girl on June 17th, 2005 5:23 pm

Blogger …

Ok I will give you the benefit of the doubt and wait to see what happens before judging you. I hope you are right and by some miracle she is still alive.


# HannieC on June 17th, 2005 5:25 pm

Hi mecha,
lees me een ongeluk kan t allemaal nauwlijks bijhouden meer. Maar ja ik zit ook vastgeplakt op me stoel voor nieuws. Woon je eigenlijk in Nederland of op de antillen?


# Brianna on June 17th, 2005 5:26 pm

um….boy those foreign languages would come in handy right about now….se dice que?


# Mecha-Godzilla on June 17th, 2005 5:28 pm

Ik woon in Amerika, al since 1984, maar mijn ouders wonen op Aruba dus het is voor hun wel spannend.


# concerned4natalee on June 17th, 2005 5:29 pm

any news blogger????


# eagle on June 17th, 2005 5:29 pm

blogger info - what the heck does FBI level mean? Some other government agency? I’m not buying your story.


# concerned4natalee on June 17th, 2005 5:30 pm

please don’t turn this into a dutch blog……. i can’t read it, thanx


# concerned4natalee on June 17th, 2005 5:31 pm

DFW: that’s for sure (book deals)


# Brianna on June 17th, 2005 5:31 pm

concerned, I second that.


# Canadian Girl on June 17th, 2005 5:32 pm

Does anyone know anything about this tickle.com website??? I read that all four of these guys have or had (before someone took them down) profiles on this site?? Someone suggested that Natalie had made contact with JVDS before she got there. Anyone know if this has been checked out??


# blogger info on June 17th, 2005 5:32 pm

Checkme -

Never said pretty confidential - said high up in law enforcement (FBI Level) for those not from the US and who might be unfamiliar with ICE.

I dont think I have given away the store here. Just trying to pass on what I know in the most discreet manner possible. Will pass on any more new I get.


# HannieC on June 17th, 2005 5:33 pm

Sorry Brianna,

I said in dutch ; ” That there`s so much to read I can`t hardly keep up ” ;)

Ok mecha vandaar dat je zo goed engels spreekt :)


# blogger info on June 17th, 2005 5:33 pm

eagle -

See previous posts. FBI Level for those unfamiliar with ICE.



# Mecha-Godzilla on June 17th, 2005 5:34 pm

Eagle..En Espanol se quires? En Frances si’l vous plait. Come on give it up and show your love….this tragedy transcends all languages and cultures. I’t like an ever changing kaleidoscope of moods and colors!!??


# claire on June 17th, 2005 5:36 pm

canadian girl-yes you can find copies of all those on the geocities site http://www.geocities.com/proud_college_republican/


# nagpur on June 17th, 2005 5:36 pm

The diskjockey just selled the drugs to JvdS to drug Natalee and she got an overdose and went in a coma, so Deepak thought that after some time she would wake up and they would lose her at the beach or a crackhouse. So they hid her body at a friends house, but she didn’t make it, so they all wrapped her body up in a black plastic bag, filled with stones and disposed her body in the Carribean Sea. That’s my theory.


# claire on June 17th, 2005 5:37 pm

might have to re-link “geo” and cities for it to work


# Florida Girl on June 17th, 2005 5:37 pm

@ Canadian Girl

All of the boys involved had tickle sites:

Joran, Satish, Deepak, Steve Crose, and even Valentijn (Joran’s brother). I posted the links earlier but for some reason the post said (awaiting moderation), so I guess it never went through. All of the tickle sites were still active as of an hour ago except Jorans.

Does anyone know why the moderator would block that?


# TLC on June 17th, 2005 5:39 pm

Blogger

Do you then share the idea that, the parents may have some inkling of what is really going on, based on what some senator they know said. I now believe this is all very much more than we are all thinking.

BTW if you’re janking our chains, remember Curacao is 15min by plane and island ppl talk eventually.


# Canadian Girl on June 17th, 2005 5:39 pm

I just heard on Fox that JVDS father was given permission to see his son…they were interviewing a Judge who implyed that this is a special priveledge that usually would not be allowed until after charges are laid.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 10, 2008, 05:34:31 PM

Story from FP of Scared Monkeys: June 17th, 2005
9:17 am: From one of our great sources in Aruba, americaninaruba …

today 6am police go into house in Sta Cruz where they go with one person ……with initials S.C. this arrest took place 6am this morning.....also in Savaneta they took someone for interogation…..
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Unbelievable, after 18 days a fourth suspect now confirmed arrested, 26 year old, son of a prominent businessman and alleged friend of Joran van der Sloot. Aruban authorities state there is an search going on with regards to this arrest but did not state where.

The boy has the initials SGC, and his father is also high in the judiciary.

so, Steve Croes' father is prominent businessman AND high in the judiciary?

fin: is this where you got "high in the judiciary"?
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Update: 1045 There is a rumor of another person taken into custody, his father recently committed suicide and that he has had serious mental issues since. He has two homes, a house on the main road of Savaneta and also another one in Seroe Alejandro, and was known for having underground parties.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Checkme on June 17th, 2005 1:23 pm
Connie,
The guy this morning is not Dutch. The guy they brought in last night is. However, it looks like the not-Dutch guy is JvdS’s friend and the Dutch guy is the Kalpoe’s.

saying that Croes is friend of JvdS and LvR is friend of K2 ...
ass backward according to what we know/think

but ... even if linkage is mistakenly reversed,
quite interesting that friendships were acknowledged/had been discovered
between Joran/LvR and Steve Croes/K2

because those particular relationships
have been denied since day one, by all involved

Lucy on June 17th, 2005 5:07 pm
Checkme: Is Steve Croes the same guy with the famous loud truck? Thanks

is she referring to LvR's "earthquake" van ... outfitted w/ deluxe sound system?

Checkme on June 17th, 2005 5:14 pm
Lucy, So you have been paying real attention… No, this is not the same guy. Info on him is still not out yet, at least not officially.

nagpur on June 17th, 2005 5:36 pm
The diskjockey just selled the drugs to JvdS to drug Natalee and she got an overdose and went in a coma, so Deepak thought that after some time she would wake up and they would lose her at the beach or a crackhouse. So they hid her body at a friends house, but she didn’t make it, so they all wrapped her body up in a black plastic bag, filled with stones and disposed her body in the Carribean Sea. That’s my theory.

interesting theory, interesting details:
Croes the DJ as source of drugs that night,
Deepak right smack in the middle of the event,
black plastic bag/stones



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 10, 2008, 06:35:58 PM
interseting comment on

http://www.majorwager.com/forums/mess-hall/44196-anyone-else-following-natalee-holloway-case-6.html


Quote:
Originally posted by: clevfan
Aruba Suspect's Father Released
Sunday, June 26, 2005

FOX NEWS

ORANJESTAD, Aruba — An Aruban judge on Sunday freed the father of a Dutch teen arrested in the disappearance of Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway (search), the man's wife said — hours after the judge ordered a party boat disc jockey held in the case released.

clevfan,
Did your sources tell you that the judge and the father are golf buddies?


could this be related to simian's having a handicap of 12 comment?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 10, 2008, 07:10:36 PM
Yes, the Steve Croes and LVR stories are intertwined only because the media on Aruba wasn't playing straight with the rest of the world.  That is why we still have no idea who is the 4th and 5th and in what order they actually were arrested or if LVR is even involved.  To me, a person that needs an alibi is a SUSPECT not a witness.  I have never seen witnesses need alibis, but then again it is Aruba.  Although Steve Croes did not have to provide an alibi..he was an alibi....then Freddy had an alibi in those two girls and of course there is Lorenzo...seems a guy names Max provided his alibi...so then since Steve Croes only provided an alibi for the 3 perps... does that make Steve Croes an arrested witness?  Yep.  I just confused myself. Gosh!! :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on March 10, 2008, 07:13:08 PM
interseting comment on

http://www.majorwager.com/forums/mess-hall/44196-anyone-else-following-natalee-holloway-case-6.html


Quote:
Originally posted by: clevfan
Aruba Suspect's Father Released
Sunday, June 26, 2005

FOX NEWS

ORANJESTAD, Aruba — An Aruban judge on Sunday freed the father of a Dutch teen arrested in the disappearance of Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway (search), the man's wife said — hours after the judge ordered a party boat disc jockey held in the case released.

clevfan,
Did your sources tell you that the judge and the father are golf buddies?


could this be related to simian's having a handicap of 12 comment?
I wonder also if this is what was meant by the 5th suspect walked with the elder..Steve Croes and PVDS walked from jail at the same time.  ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyConfused:: Just a Thought!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 10, 2008, 07:27:50 PM
if by the fifth suspect we mean the fifth person arrested in relation to the case it would be PVDS


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 10, 2008, 07:43:56 PM
interseting comment on

http://www.majorwager.com/forums/mess-hall/44196-anyone-else-following-natalee-holloway-case-6.html


Quote:
Originally posted by: clevfan
Aruba Suspect's Father Released
Sunday, June 26, 2005

FOX NEWS

ORANJESTAD, Aruba — An Aruban judge on Sunday freed the father of a Dutch teen arrested in the disappearance of Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway (search), the man's wife said — hours after the judge ordered a party boat disc jockey held in the case released.

clevfan,
Did your sources tell you that the judge and the father are golf buddies?


could this be related to simian's having a handicap of 12 comment?
I wonder also if this is what was meant by the 5th suspect walked with the elder..Steve Croes and PVDS walked from jail at the same time.  ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyConfused:: Just a Thought!

per Shango, DirtyHand walked with the fallen elder

per Simian:
Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Who said the alibi played for the Van Der Sloot’s? The 5th suspect is waltzing away.
Posted Jun 24, 10:45 AM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Evening Update; Natalee Holloway” | View Post

I believe that the word 'suspect' refers to the technical declaration by ALE



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 10, 2008, 07:44:34 PM
per Shango, DirtyHand walked with the fallen elder

SGC walked hours earlier


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 10, 2008, 07:48:19 PM
per CNN, and so perhaps officially PVDS was the 5th

per Simian, if the 5th is DirtyHand, then the Babylonian Card was tossed from the table, crushed under Sumerian Feat

feat:  as in "judicial feat" (fee'-aht)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 10, 2008, 07:57:31 PM
per Shango, DirtyHand walked with the fallen elder

SGC walked hours earlier

but, IIRC:

PvdS and Steve-O were ordered released the same day/sunday

Paulus walked out that day ...
Croes spent one more night and walked out early on monday

which I always wondered about:
why the extra night if he was free to leave?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 10, 2008, 08:16:10 PM
Yes, the Steve Croes and LVR stories are intertwined only because the media on Aruba wasn't playing straight with the rest of the world. 

yes ... and how does that intertwining of facts reflect on CheckMe? it seemed like he was one of the insiders, so was he mis-directing as well or was he not as inside as he appeared to be? it matters, IMO, since sim included CheckMe on the list of those "known" to sim, along w/ shock and shango

That is why we still have no idea who is the 4th and 5th and in what order they actually were arrested or if LVR is even involved. 

involved enough to have searches conducted, yes? surely that indicates something

late august 2005
Dan in Tx: My Aruban contact tells me LVR's mom's house in Savaneta was NOT searched along with the other house and his boat and car, and furthermore has not been searched even to this day. This person tells me polis want very badly to search the Savaneta 'ranch house' that I believe belongs to his mom but aren't allowed near it as it is 'not in the scope of the search'. Can you verify or refute this please?

Peeps: That's right Dan. Other note: That's the best I can provide you guys. Use your photoshop skills to better the pic.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 10, 2008, 08:34:31 PM
also intertwined:

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Who said the alibi played for the Van Der Sloot’s? The 5th suspect is waltzing away.
Posted Jun 24, 10:45 AM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Evening Update; Natalee Holloway” | View Post

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:43 pm
The fallen judge agreed to sing because he can hum any tune
He needs to sing for his son, or see the end of his babylonian offspring

The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:27 pm
DirtyHand and the fallen judge may not be crucified
the gods are talking

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder
The gods are talking

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:18 pm
DirtyHand does not play with the lions
but he has entered the maze
the lamb is a scapegoat
DirtyHand knows
So does the Elder

Shango Says:June 27th, 2005 at 11:26 pm
The Arawaks will not enter the maze unless the cowboys refuse the peace pipe
Follow the music,
the lions are not tame
DirtyHand knows,
so does the elder

Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid Arawak King who wishes to blame the babylonians for the behaviour of lowly minions.

Threadsurfers, DirtyHand is more vulnerable than the Arawak King and your lances should point in his direction.

He is the weak link, if he tumbles, all fall with him….. The lamb, the shivas, the elder

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak
Many pioneers have settled with the tribe

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Tribe knows all of the players, even the elders of the inner circle


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 10, 2008, 08:38:55 PM
Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty. (note the card game-not blackjack!)
Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak (while you really are not), you still have DirtyHand.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 10, 2008, 09:27:24 PM
This is the order as per Dr Phil documents and ALE officially, I presume….Where is that bag of salt?

Notice Joran’s does NOT say ‘first statement’ and there is that 'response to request' again!

Name: Joran van der Sloot
Date: 9 June 2005 / 12:00
Pages. 15
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Luigi Croes
Description: transcript of interrogation as a suspect
Responsive to Request 41

Name: Deepak Kalpoe
Date: 9 June 2005 / 15:30
Pages: 10
Writer/Initiator: Johny Erasmus & Clyde Burke
Description: first statement of D.S. Kalpoe as a suspect
Responsive to Request 25

Name: Deepak Kalpoe
Date: 9 June 2005 / 15:30
Pages: 10
Writer/Initiator: Johny Erasmus & Clyde Burke
Description: first statement of D.S. Kalpoe as a suspect
Responsive to Request 25

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 17 June 2005 / 07:40
Pages: 4
Writer/Initiator. Dennis Jacobs/Luigi Croes
Description: suspect interrogation
Responsive to Request 41

Name: Paulus van der Sloot
Date: 23 June 2005 / 14:30
Pages: 13
Writer/Initiator: Roland Tromp
Description: transcript of interrogation
Responsive to Request 41

++++++++++++++++

Simian June 22nd, 2005 at 5:38 pm

Checkme…check this…and please recheck:
Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week.
After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him. This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.
Posted Jun 22, 5:55 PM

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The first guy she met has all the motive. The second guy is scared shitless in a cell.
I have heard from Americans living in Aruba and and they think something completely different.
Posted Jun 22, 6:01 PM

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was “the whole time”.
Posted Jun 22, 6:04 PM

JMO…This is not Paulus van der Sloot

Four choices, IMO…
Guido
Freddy
Lorenzo
GVC


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on March 10, 2008, 09:43:44 PM
Is Checkme and Simian one in the same? Why do they both say the 5th suspect is the key? Klaas says Checkme was also posting from Aruba.
-----------------------------
Lucy,
I read snips of that. Found it a bit silly. Information was provided many days ago. Except that "DH" part. The house is in Savaneta. Definitely connected to "Arawaks". But for this they would need solid proof and they would wreak havoc on the Arawak establishment... that's the fear that keeps everybody busy will other things.

Posted by: Checkme | Monday, June 27, 2005 at 06:36 PM
-------------------

Checkme

Why has it been so hard to pin down #5?

Posted by: Lucy | Monday, June 27, 2005 at 06:06 PM
---------------

Focus left him because the incarcelation of the boyz. But he still is key to this case. They may now go and take him in now the vdS is a dead end.

Posted by: Checkme | Monday, June 27, 2005 at 06:09 PM


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on March 10, 2008, 09:55:15 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Did the babylonians like to make movies?
From the tears, a new river will spring forth….


Security videos??  From the Wyndham...owned by Riverol?  just thinking....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on March 10, 2008, 10:03:15 PM
Shango on June 27th, 2005 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED

Shango on June 27th, 2005 10:41 pm
Mary ROLLED through the Maze
There is more than one house of music
the Lamb is a Scapegoat

Shango on June 27th, 2005 10:42 pm
The Lamb returned to the fold
Mary Rolled
And the lions played



From an urban dictionary:

Rolled:
V.
1. Used in the past tense has having been beaten badly.
a. Used a lot in the online gaming community similarly to pwned or owned
b. Also in reference to a competition.

(pwned: It basically means "to own" or to be dominated by an opponent or situation, especially by some god-like or computer-like force.)



getting your ass kicked while gaming online
 
The past tense of 'roll'. Roll means an ecstacy pill, to take the pill, or to be f***ed up from the pill.






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 10, 2008, 10:20:21 PM
could be high-rolled when capitalized

Shango: "Why did the girl owe money?"

Dicemen.net   (???)    the gamblers & other (rock 'n') rollers talk



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 10, 2008, 11:26:00 PM
Checkme is not the same person as Simian...but Simian and Merian Ernst could be the same. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 11, 2008, 12:20:27 AM
don't have the link anymore but saved the text:

From the Scarborough Country transcript, of June 9, 2005
MSNBC - Joe Scarborough

SCARBOROUGH: With the arrest of three more suspects and also the search for Natalee Holloway entering the 11th day and counting, the question remains, what could have happened to this beautiful, intelligent, attractive young girl from Mountain Brook, Alabama?

With me now to talk about it is Marjanne Havelaar. She is the editor of “The Amigoe,” which is, from what I understand, Marjanne, the largest Dutch-language newspaper on the island.

Thank you for being with us tonight.

Your island is such a safe island. I know this has to be a shock to everybody down there. How often do you have tourists from America or any other country end up missing like this?

MARJANNE HAVELAAR, EDITOR, “THE AMIGOE”: As far as I can remember, it never happens. I work as an editor for five years now on this island. I live here for 15 years. And something like this, it‘s really the first time.

SCARBOROUGH: It just doesn‘t happen. Now, let me ask you something. You know the family of the Dutch teen. Obviously, they‘re a very well respected family there. What can you tell us about them tonight?

HAVELAAR: Yes. You‘re right. It‘s a very respected family. As we know, the father is a local judge. The mother is a teacher. I mean, they have three kids. They‘ve never been in trouble. It‘s a normal, decent family, nothing extraordinary about them. So, this came really as a shock that their son was named as one of the suspects.

SCARBOROUGH: Yes. I‘m sure a lot of people are shocked by that.

Let me ask you something. Last night, we had an FBI profiler come on this show. And they said, you know, one of the things that happens, not only in Aruba, but happens—I mean, it happens in Miami. It happens all across America, all across the world, is, sometimes, you have date rape drugs that are slipped into drinks. It happens on college campuses. A lot of speculation that that may have happened in this case.

Has that ever happened in Aruba before? Have police or newspapers ever felt the need to issue warnings to tourists because this happens?

HAVELAAR: Yes. It‘s something that happens on Aruba. It happened a few times last—over the last few years.

And, sometimes, in our paper, we issue a warning, not only for the tourists, but also for the local teens. Once in a while, we hear information about this kind of thing.


did she almost say "it happened a few times last year/last summer " ... ?





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 11, 2008, 01:47:03 AM

O/T but ... hadn't seen this one before ... very nice photo

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c28/HBelcourt/Natpink.jpg)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 11, 2008, 10:24:55 AM
it depends on how we define the fifth suspect
are witnesses suspects, do you have to be arrested to be a suspect or is anybody that has relevance to the cas a suspect?

A witness is some one that has information - No Arrest
A  suspect is one that is part of the crime - Arrest
a winess/suspect is someone that has information but that information makes him a suspect - Arrest depend of others who snitch
a suspect/witness is that he is involved but snitched and now has preferential treatment.



Thanks Caps...I wonder which ones GVC, Lorenzo, Guido, Freddy and even Steve fit under?

Lala's.....did you find that link to Jossy about Freddy. It is in that long post, I think on the last page.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Destiny on March 11, 2008, 12:11:02 PM
This is the order as per Dr Phil documents and ALE officially, I presume….Where is that bag of salt?

Notice Joran’s does NOT say ‘first statement’ and there is that 'response to request' again!

Name: Joran van der Sloot
Date: 9 June 2005 / 12:00
Pages. 15
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Luigi Croes
Description: transcript of interrogation as a suspect
Responsive to Request 41

Name: Deepak Kalpoe
Date: 9 June 2005 / 15:30
Pages: 10
Writer/Initiator: Johny Erasmus & Clyde Burke
Description: first statement of D.S. Kalpoe as a suspect
Responsive to Request 25

Name: Deepak Kalpoe
Date: 9 June 2005 / 15:30
Pages: 10
Writer/Initiator: Johny Erasmus & Clyde Burke
Description: first statement of D.S. Kalpoe as a suspect
Responsive to Request 25

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 17 June 2005 / 07:40
Pages: 4
Writer/Initiator. Dennis Jacobs/Luigi Croes
Description: suspect interrogation
Responsive to Request 41

Name: Paulus van der Sloot
Date: 23 June 2005 / 14:30
Pages: 13
Writer/Initiator: Roland Tromp
Description: transcript of interrogation
Responsive to Request 41

++++++++++++++++

Simian June 22nd, 2005 at 5:38 pm

Checkme…check this…and please recheck:
Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week.
After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him. This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.
Posted Jun 22, 5:55 PM

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The first guy she met has all the motive. The second guy is scared shitless in a cell.
I have heard from Americans living in Aruba and and they think something completely different.
Posted Jun 22, 6:01 PM

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was “the whole time”.
Posted Jun 22, 6:04 PM

JMO…This is not Paulus van der Sloot

Four choices, IMO…
Guido
Freddy
Lorenzo
GVC


Mum...I go with Lorenzo...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 11, 2008, 12:30:53 PM
This is the order as per Dr Phil documents and ALE officially, I presume….Where is that bag of salt?

Notice Joran’s does NOT say ‘first statement’ and there is that 'response to request' again!

Name: Joran van der Sloot
Date: 9 June 2005 / 12:00
Pages. 15
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Luigi Croes
Description: transcript of interrogation as a suspect
Responsive to Request 41

Name: Deepak Kalpoe
Date: 9 June 2005 / 15:30
Pages: 10
Writer/Initiator: Johny Erasmus & Clyde Burke
Description: first statement of D.S. Kalpoe as a suspect
Responsive to Request 25

Name: Deepak Kalpoe
Date: 9 June 2005 / 15:30
Pages: 10
Writer/Initiator: Johny Erasmus & Clyde Burke
Description: first statement of D.S. Kalpoe as a suspect
Responsive to Request 25

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 17 June 2005 / 07:40
Pages: 4
Writer/Initiator. Dennis Jacobs/Luigi Croes
Description: suspect interrogation
Responsive to Request 41

Name: Paulus van der Sloot
Date: 23 June 2005 / 14:30
Pages: 13
Writer/Initiator: Roland Tromp
Description: transcript of interrogation
Responsive to Request 41

++++++++++++++++

Simian June 22nd, 2005 at 5:38 pm

Checkme…check this…and please recheck:
Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week.
After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him. This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.
Posted Jun 22, 5:55 PM

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The first guy she met has all the motive. The second guy is scared shitless in a cell.
I have heard from Americans living in Aruba and and they think something completely different.
Posted Jun 22, 6:01 PM

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was “the whole time”.
Posted Jun 22, 6:04 PM

JMO…This is not Paulus van der Sloot

Four choices, IMO…
Guido
Freddy
Lorenzo
GVC


Mum...I go with Lorenzo...

Simian s posts are from the 22nd of june the only ones one Mum's list brought in for questioning before that date
were Freddy and Guido (according to McGraw timeline and assuming this is accurate) ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 11, 2008, 12:34:54 PM
But then again.....

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/06/21/lorenzo-van-rijn-arrested-on-drug-charges-in-aruba-hmm-ya-dont-say/

147 Responses to “Lorenzo van Rijn Arrested on Drug Charges in Aruba … Hmm … Ya Don’t Say”

   1. 10061906 on June 22nd, 2007 12:21 am

Remember technically Lorenzo was the fifth suspect arrested and then immediately released. Also in Dave’s book…..when he was in the police station with Dompig there was a chart on the wall with a picture of all the suspects. Curiously Lorenzo’s picture was missing. When asked Dompig said there was no reason for Lorenzo to be on the chart and blew off Dave and I believe Art Wood.
      Yeh riggghhhtt. Mr XTACY himself.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Destiny on March 11, 2008, 12:35:07 PM
I should explain more why I go with Lorenzo...

It is *known* that the PIMPS did take vids of druged young girls to sell...am convinced that the camera that had to be returned to Freddy, was used with Natalee...I think there is a vid of Natalee in someones' posession...IMOO..just who that person would be, don't know...but evidence/blackmail fodder of that nature just doesn't get destroyed...it's saved for possible future use/gain...

Am also convinced that Lorenzo's Rave party basement...(was said to be a complete underground niteclub and vid room) was in use when Natalee went missing. Even though it was a school nite...that doesn't seem to matter on Aruba.

Also...this is the reason that Urine was picked up by the bus near Lorenzo's party house on the way to school...I don't think that Perv DaddySloot dropped him off there to be picked up by the bus.

Also am of the thought that Lorenzo met Natalee earlier in the week, before Urine ever met her....Natalee was, for whatever reason...nothing good we know for sure...*chosen* out of a group of students for a specific purpose.  It's something that has been going on in Aruba for a long long time.

Aruba has many *dirty* secrets....with many people's hand involved....yep, know I'm being cryptic...sorry...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 11, 2008, 12:55:00 PM
it depends on how we define the fifth suspect
are witnesses suspects, do you have to be arrested to be a suspect or is anybody that has relevance to the cas a suspect?

A witness is some one that has information - No Arrest
A  suspect is one that is part of the crime - Arrest
a winess/suspect is someone that has information but that information makes him a suspect - Arrest depend of others who snitch
a suspect/witness is that he is involved but snitched and now has preferential treatment.



Thanks Caps...I wonder which ones GVC, Lorenzo, Guido, Freddy and even Steve fit under?

Lala's.....did you find that link to Jossy about Freddy. It is in that long post, I think on the last page.

GCV is the fifth in that case.  GVC, after guido beat and battered as so the others, did the final GSW, I have reason to believe.  I believe everyone there had a part and had to get rid of the evidence.
GCV had acces to guns, boats, changing of videos, keys to hotel rooms,  Beach Patrol would find it difficult to really fire the boss' son and not let him have anything he needed. Joran and Depak initiated the kidnapping and rape and it was ended with many kids of that community who are being protected at all costs.  They all had a hand in this and are just as guilty and should all receive severe consequences, however the adults have bound together to protect their kids and each other as that is the only way they will maintain ,their staying out of jail.  jack b, 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 11, 2008, 01:02:24 PM
5th Suspect and Dirty Hand....LOL

I have seen more than my share of theories, but let's look at them...

Dirty Hand possibilities:
Jan van der Straten
Rudy Croes
Ben Vocking
Paulus van der Sloot
Ronny Bernadina
Karen Jansen
I have even seen the SG mentioned as DH and also Nelson Oduber. 

5th Suspect possibilities:
Freddy Abrambatizs
Steve Croes
Lorenzo van Rijn or Gijn
Koen or Sander Gottenbos
Paulus van der Sloot
Geoffrey van Cromvoit
I have even seen Joran, Jaime and Val mentioned.

So there you have it...just a few of the usual suspects.  So which ones fit???  I wish Caps would weigh in with his thoughts too.


Based on times suspects (not witnesses) were arrested, not counting the two black security guards it would have to be GVC, otherwise it would the three original perps, Joran would fall fifth.  There are two fifth suspects, actually and both seem to fill the bill.  Maybe there are supposed to be two fifth suspects.    Jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 11, 2008, 01:50:36 PM
I should explain more why I go with Lorenzo...

It is *known* that the PIMPS did take vids of druged young girls to sell...am convinced that the camera that had to be returned to Freddy, was used with Natalee...I think there is a vid of Natalee in someones' posession...IMOO..just who that person would be, don't know...but evidence/blackmail fodder of that nature just doesn't get destroyed...it's saved for possible future use/gain...

Am also convinced that Lorenzo's Rave party basement...(was said to be a complete underground niteclub and vid room) was in use when Natalee went missing. Even though it was a school nite...that doesn't seem to matter on Aruba.

Also...this is the reason that Urine was picked up by the bus near Lorenzo's party house on the way to school...I don't think that Perv DaddySloot dropped him off there to be picked up by the bus.

Also am of the thought that Lorenzo met Natalee earlier in the week, before Urine ever met her....Natalee was, for whatever reason...nothing good we know for sure...*chosen* out of a group of students for a specific purpose.  It's something that has been going on in Aruba for a long long time.

Aruba has many *dirty* secrets....with many people's hand involved....yep, know I'm being cryptic...sorry...

Ok good arguments but if Lorenzo was the jealous boyfriend from earlier in the week. Then i doubt Joran would be a welcome guest at his house party


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on March 11, 2008, 01:59:41 PM
I should explain more why I go with Lorenzo...

It is *known* that the PIMPS did take vids of druged young girls to sell...am convinced that the camera that had to be returned to Freddy, was used with Natalee...I think there is a vid of Natalee in someones' posession...IMOO..just who that person would be, don't know...but evidence/blackmail fodder of that nature just doesn't get destroyed...it's saved for possible future use/gain...

Am also convinced that Lorenzo's Rave party basement...(was said to be a complete underground niteclub and vid room) was in use when Natalee went missing. Even though it was a school nite...that doesn't seem to matter on Aruba.

Also...this is the reason that Urine was picked up by the bus near Lorenzo's party house on the way to school...I don't think that Perv DaddySloot dropped him off there to be picked up by the bus.

Also am of the thought that Lorenzo met Natalee earlier in the week, before Urine ever met her....Natalee was, for whatever reason...nothing good we know for sure...*chosen* out of a group of students for a specific purpose.  It's something that has been going on in Aruba for a long long time.

Aruba has many *dirty* secrets....with many people's hand involved....yep, know I'm being cryptic...sorry...

Ok good arguments but if Lorenzo was the jealous boyfriend from earlier in the week. Then i doubt Joran would be a welcome guest at his house party
JE...Here's My theory on that...maybe Lorenzo just saw Natalee somewhere before that night and liked her...it doesn't mean that Natalee or Joraan were aware of His feelings...Make sense???  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 11, 2008, 02:03:22 PM
154.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Who said the alibi played for the Van Der Sloot’s? The 5th suspect is waltzing away.

Great couple of lines.......Simian knew. I almost exclusively read Shango , so a few of Simians thoughts are new to me.

I am curious about the word WALTZING away since some of this says "follow the music."
Were any of them into some type Dance?  j/b






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 11, 2008, 02:26:39 PM
5th Suspect and Dirty Hand....LOL

I have seen more than my share of theories, but let's look at them...

Dirty Hand possibilities:
Jan van der Straten
Rudy Croes
Ben Vocking
Paulus van der Sloot
Ronny Bernadina
Karen Jansen
I have even seen the SG mentioned as DH and also Nelson Oduber. 

5th Suspect possibilities:
Freddy Abrambatizs
Steve Croes
Lorenzo van Rijn or Gijn
Koen or Sander Gottenbos
Paulus van der Sloot
Geoffrey van Cromvoit
I have even seen Joran, Jaime and Val mentioned.

So there you have it...just a few of the usual suspects.  So which ones fit???  I wish Caps would weigh in with his thoughts too.


Based on times suspects (not witnesses) were arrested, not counting the two black security guards it would have to be GVC, otherwise it would the three original perps, Joran would fall fifth.  There are two fifth suspects, actually and both seem to fill the bill.  Maybe there are supposed to be two fifth suspects.    Jack b

When was GVC arrested? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 11, 2008, 02:34:20 PM
I should explain more why I go with Lorenzo...

It is *known* that the PIMPS did take vids of druged young girls to sell...am convinced that the camera that had to be returned to Freddy, was used with Natalee...I think there is a vid of Natalee in someones' posession...IMOO..just who that person would be, don't know...but evidence/blackmail fodder of that nature just doesn't get destroyed...it's saved for possible future use/gain...

Am also convinced that Lorenzo's Rave party basement...(was said to be a complete underground niteclub and vid room) was in use when Natalee went missing. Even though it was a school nite...that doesn't seem to matter on Aruba.

Also...this is the reason that Urine was picked up by the bus near Lorenzo's party house on the way to school...I don't think that Perv DaddySloot dropped him off there to be picked up by the bus.

Also am of the thought that Lorenzo met Natalee earlier in the week, before Urine ever met her....Natalee was, for whatever reason...nothing good we know for sure...*chosen* out of a group of students for a specific purpose.  It's something that has been going on in Aruba for a long long time.

Aruba has many *dirty* secrets....with many people's hand involved....yep, know I'm being cryptic...sorry...

Ok good arguments but if Lorenzo was the jealous boyfriend from earlier in the week. Then i doubt Joran would be a welcome guest at his house party
JE...Here's My theory on that...maybe Lorenzo just saw Natalee somewhere before that night and liked her...it doesn't mean that Natalee or Joraan were aware of His feelings...Make sense???  ::MonkeyWink::

Simian indicates this "boyfriend" was jealous. I would think Joran was aware of that at some point...since Simian wants us to realize that Joran isn't the only suspect in this.  Also, Simian says that Natalee met him at the casino...which had to be some time after the Thursday they arrived there.  That does not leave too much time..does it.  Keep in mind that both Simian and Shango attempt to distance Joran from the actual crime. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 11, 2008, 03:31:59 PM
Remember that when counting suspects the security guards had already been released before Simian made his pronouncement on June 22nd. Therefore you would not count them in the mix. That leaves:

Deepak
Satish
Joran
Steve
And whoever that person was that was arrested right after Steve Croes.

 There is a person, we just do not know who it was.  Mum thinks it was Freddy, I think it was Lorenzo.  Why? Because we find evidence that these two were questioned somewhere along this time line and before Paulus was arrested on the 22 or 23rd.  Some have said Lorenzo was questioned on the 16th...that is after the guards were released and before Paulus was arrested and if true...right before Simian began posting...Freddy also fits in this same scenario too...much more  indication that he was questioned as a possible suspect before Lorenzo.  The rumor on the blogs and on Aruba, as relayed by various posters there, was it was Lorenzo....but I have nothing to prove that as of yet.  I welcome evidence to the contrary....I would like to eliminate one or both of these two if I could.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 11, 2008, 03:34:02 PM
5th Suspect and Dirty Hand....LOL

I have seen more than my share of theories, but let's look at them...

Dirty Hand possibilities:
Jan van der Straten
Rudy Croes
Ben Vocking
Paulus van der Sloot
Ronny Bernadina
Karen Jansen
I have even seen the SG mentioned as DH and also Nelson Oduber. 

5th Suspect possibilities:
Freddy Abrambatizs
Steve Croes
Lorenzo van Rijn or Gijn
Koen or Sander Gottenbos
Paulus van der Sloot
Geoffrey van Cromvoit
I have even seen Joran, Jaime and Val mentioned.

So there you have it...just a few of the usual suspects.  So which ones fit???  I wish Caps would weigh in with his thoughts too.


Based on times suspects (not witnesses) were arrested, not counting the two black security guards it would have to be GVC, otherwise it would the three original perps, Joran would fall fifth.  There are two fifth suspects, actually and both seem to fill the bill.  Maybe there are supposed to be two fifth suspects.    Jack b

When was GVC arrested? 

april 2006?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 11, 2008, 03:35:47 PM
154.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Who said the alibi played for the Van Der Sloot’s? The 5th suspect is waltzing away.

Great couple of lines.......Simian knew. I almost exclusively read Shango , so a few of Simians thoughts are new to me.

I am curious about the word WALTZING away since some of this says "follow the music."
Were any of them into some type Dance?  j/b







Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating

Shango has not danced with the lions, nor Arawaks,and does not keep their company


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:50 pm
Are insects conned into entering Venus Flytraps?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 11, 2008, 03:44:31 PM
Just to put a spanner in the works…I believe from reading the posts of the day from a couple of forums, that this arrest happened and was retracted…so the question would be…who was it?

First date was June 10th. at 9.38am.

Sorry to repost, but we have new tangoers!

Lala’s…I just read that 2 brothers and a Columbian were questioned on the 16th.!


the link is no longer available.

www.nbc4i.com/news/4593143/detail.html

Another Arrest Made In Case Of Missing Ala. Teen
POSTED: 9:38 am EDT June 10, 2005
UPDATED: 9:34 am EDT June 11, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba -- Police in Aruba investigating the disappearance of an Alabama teenager made another arrest early Saturday. It comes just hours after police said one of three men recently arrested admitted "something bad had happened" to Natalee Holloway.

Police aren't commenting on the latest arrest, which was the sixth since Holloway went missing May 30.

Late Friday, one of three young men who took Holloway to the beach during her class trip to Aruba said "something bad happened" to her, police said.

The three men arrested by Aruban police early Thursday morning had been designated "persons of interest" in the case and were detained soon after Natalee Holloway's disappearance. Police officials questioned the trio, and then released them back to their families.

And more…..

This one from the AP about the same arrest:
By MICHAEL NORTON, Associated Press Writer

ORANJESTAD, Aruba - Police investigating the disappearance of an Alabama honors student in Aruba arrested a man at dawn Saturday, hours after one of three young men already in custody admitted "something bad happened" to the woman after they took her to the beach.

It was unclear if the 6 a.m. arrest was related to the admission. The same team of officers who arrested five others in the case during the past week went to a home just outside Oranjestad, the capital, and came out with a handcuffed man who looked to be in his 20s.

And then I posted:
OK....I just read that the arrest I posted above was NOT related to Natalee!

Next I posted:
Same arrest....now it didn't happen!

by Norman 'Gus' Thomas
Caribbean Net News Senior Regional Correspondent
E-mail: rc@caribbeannetnews.com
Saturday, June 11, 2005ORANJESTAD, Aruba:

Law enforcement officials in Aruba are calling recent reports coming out of the USA in relation to the disappearance of an Alabama teenager as "untrue and misleading." 18-year-old Natalee Holloway vanished May 29 after leaving an Oranjestad nightclub.

According to US reports, police in Aruba arrested a man on Saturday morning, after one of a trio that was previously held reportedly told police "something bad happened to her".

CNN's 2:00 pm report on Saturday stated that a senior police officer had told them that one of the three men arrested had confessed to killing Halloway.

Aruba police told Caribbean Net News Saturday that they have been engaged in an unsuccessful island-wide search for Holloway, who had come to the island with 124 other students from the USA to celebrate their graduation from Mountain Brook High School.

Caribbean Net News contacted CNN Headline News in Atlanta who said that they have reporters on the ground in Aruba and were adamant that they are sticking by their story.

However, officials in Aruba maintain that no confession was made and there has been no other arrest apart from the five made earlier.

According to one US report, police this morning visited a home on the outskirts of the capital city of Oranjestad and were later seen coming from the house with a young man wearing handcuffs, but the Aruba police have also denied this.

However, police did confirm to Caribbean Net News that, of the arrested trio, two are brothers and hail from Suriname while the other is a 17-year-old Dutchman who is the son of a top member of Aruba's legal circle.






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 11, 2008, 04:05:32 PM
Just to put a spanner in the works…I believe from reading the posts of the day from a couple of forums, that this arrest happened and was retracted…so the question would be…who was it?

First date was June 10th. at 9.38am.

Sorry to repost, but we have new tangoers!

Lala’s…I just read that 2 brothers and a Columbian were questioned on the 16th.!


the link is no longer available.

www.nbc4i.com/news/4593143/detail.html

Another Arrest Made In Case Of Missing Ala. Teen
POSTED: 9:38 am EDT June 10, 2005
UPDATED: 9:34 am EDT June 11, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba -- Police in Aruba investigating the disappearance of an Alabama teenager made another arrest early Saturday. It comes just hours after police said one of three men recently arrested admitted "something bad had happened" to Natalee Holloway.

Police aren't commenting on the latest arrest, which was the sixth since Holloway went missing May 30.

Late Friday, one of three young men who took Holloway to the beach during her class trip to Aruba said "something bad happened" to her, police said.

The three men arrested by Aruban police early Thursday morning had been designated "persons of interest" in the case and were detained soon after Natalee Holloway's disappearance. Police officials questioned the trio, and then released them back to their families.

And more…..

This one from the AP about the same arrest:
By MICHAEL NORTON, Associated Press Writer

ORANJESTAD, Aruba - Police investigating the disappearance of an Alabama honors student in Aruba arrested a man at dawn Saturday, hours after one of three young men already in custody admitted "something bad happened" to the woman after they took her to the beach.

It was unclear if the 6 a.m. arrest was related to the admission. The same team of officers who arrested five others in the case during the past week went to a home just outside Oranjestad, the capital, and came out with a handcuffed man who looked to be in his 20s.

And then I posted:
OK....I just read that the arrest I posted above was NOT related to Natalee!

Next I posted:
Same arrest....now it didn't happen!

by Norman 'Gus' Thomas
Caribbean Net News Senior Regional Correspondent
E-mail: rc@caribbeannetnews.com
Saturday, June 11, 2005ORANJESTAD, Aruba:

Law enforcement officials in Aruba are calling recent reports coming out of the USA in relation to the disappearance of an Alabama teenager as "untrue and misleading." 18-year-old Natalee Holloway vanished May 29 after leaving an Oranjestad nightclub.

According to US reports, police in Aruba arrested a man on Saturday morning, after one of a trio that was previously held reportedly told police "something bad happened to her".

CNN's 2:00 pm report on Saturday stated that a senior police officer had told them that one of the three men arrested had confessed to killing Halloway.

Aruba police told Caribbean Net News Saturday that they have been engaged in an unsuccessful island-wide search for Holloway, who had come to the island with 124 other students from the USA to celebrate their graduation from Mountain Brook High School.

Caribbean Net News contacted CNN Headline News in Atlanta who said that they have reporters on the ground in Aruba and were adamant that they are sticking by their story.

However, officials in Aruba maintain that no confession was made and there has been no other arrest apart from the five made earlier.

According to one US report, police this morning visited a home on the outskirts of the capital city of Oranjestad and were later seen coming from the house with a young man wearing handcuffs, but the Aruba police have also denied this.

However, police did confirm to Caribbean Net News that, of the arrested trio, two are brothers and hail from Suriname while the other is a 17-year-old Dutchman who is the son of a top member of Aruba's legal circle.






Brothers?  Sander and Koen??? Columbian??? Jaime


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 11, 2008, 04:08:32 PM
Oops!  Maybe I didn't mean Jaime...he's Brazilian, right?  I meant Freddy.   If you look at the Dr. Phil documents....Koen Sander and Freddy are questioned on June 16th.  Sorry about that.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on March 11, 2008, 04:08:47 PM
Interesting.....Freddy was first 'interviewed' on Sunday June 12 at 11:05am, according to the spreadsheet that Grande was able to put together, Freddy was the only interview that day.  At least as far as we can tell from the list of documents from the Dr. Phil case.

This from Deepak's June 11 statement at 12:10 hours:

I also have to tell you that Joran was wearing white sneakers/sport shoes that night. If you search/investigate his home then you will see that the shoes aren't there. He had told me that he had theft them on the beach.
To your question whether I of if Joran told the story to someone else,   than I can say the following. I know Joran told his story to his friend named Freddy ZEDAN. Freddy lives behind Joran. His mobile phone number is inside my mobile phone.

To your question whether Joran told me what he had told Freddy, I can say the following. Joran told me that he had told Freddy the truth and the story that was made up. I know that he trusts Freddy more because they have known each other for a long time. If you go and talk to Freddy, he will tell you the made up story and maybe also the truth.


So...When, exactly, so they think a confession was made?  June 10th or 11th?  We know it was before June 12th and Freddy was not interviewed until June 12th.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 11, 2008, 04:15:01 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4430010&page=1

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

All along the gamblers knew who he was. (George Fox #9?)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 11, 2008, 04:15:58 PM
Jaime was the 17th.???

Name: Florencia Mets
Date: 16 June 2005 / 19:10
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Johny Erasmus & Ghrizanti Tromp
Description:

Name: Koen Gottenbos
Date: 16 June 2005 / 17:15
Pages: 10
Writer/Initiator: Luigi Croes & Juan Boezem
Description: witness statement of a friend of the Kalpoe's and Van der Sloot

Name: Sander Gottenbos
Date: 16 June 2005 / 17:10
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Kelly & Clyde Burke
Description: witness statement (brother of Koen Gottenbos)

Name: Freddy Alexander Arambatzis
Date: 16 June 2005115:30
Pages: 8
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 11, 2008, 04:16:08 PM
Also Paulus gave a statement on June 18 right after Steve Croes was arrested.  In he is talking about Freddy...

Freddy had told this story shortly after he was interviewed by the police. He had called my wife and had said that he found it important to tell the truth. After that he came over to us and he first talked to my wife. After that he came back one time and and he spoke with Joran's lawyer, his parents, me and my wife were also present. My wife and myself were very saddened and angry at Joran for apparently not telling us the truth. My wife and the lawyer then confronted Joran about this. According to my wife Joran reacted calmly and said that he had always told Freddy the truth.

It is clear that Paulus is trying to distance himself from the "no body, no case" comments also:

To your question whether my son asked if no body would be found that there would be no case, I can state the following. I cannot remember Joran having asked me this. I have said on several occasions that if the girl were not found, this could pose a problem for them, on top of that would be the uncertainty whether a crime and what crime had been committed.


Mum...this goes back to our Zeolla discussion...too bad those pages before that are missing in Paulus PV...

spoken. With some friends who visited us we undoubtedly spoke about this because it was on our minds too. Some of our friends are members of  “Friends of Aruba” and were closely involved with the search for the girl.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 11, 2008, 04:17:23 PM
Jaime was the 17th.???

Name: Florencia Mets
Date: 16 June 2005 / 19:10
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Johny Erasmus & Ghrizanti Tromp
Description:

Name: Koen Gottenbos
Date: 16 June 2005 / 17:15
Pages: 10
Writer/Initiator: Luigi Croes & Juan Boezem
Description: witness statement of a friend of the Kalpoe's and Van der Sloot

Name: Sander Gottenbos
Date: 16 June 2005 / 17:10
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Kelly & Clyde Burke
Description: witness statement (brother of Koen Gottenbos)

Name: Freddy Alexander Arambatzis
Date: 16 June 2005115:30
Pages: 8
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement



I told you I was sorry...I had things mixed up. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 11, 2008, 04:17:44 PM
Remember that when counting suspects the security guards had already been released before Simian made his pronouncement on June 22nd. Therefore you would not count them in the mix. That leaves:

Deepak
Satish
Joran
Steve
And whoever that person was that was arrested right after Steve Croes.

 There is a person, we just do not know who it was.  Mum thinks it was Freddy, I think it was Lorenzo.  Why? Because we find evidence that these two were questioned somewhere along this time line and before Paulus was arrested on the 22 or 23rd.  Some have said Lorenzo was questioned on the 16th...that is after the guards were released and before Paulus was arrested and if true...right before Simian began posting...Freddy also fits in this same scenario too...much more  indication that he was questioned as a possible suspect before Lorenzo.  The rumor on the blogs and on Aruba, as relayed by various posters there, was it was Lorenzo....but I have nothing to prove that as of yet.  I welcome evidence to the contrary....I would like to eliminate one or both of these two if I could.

The first time paulus was brought in for a 4 hour interrogation was on saturday june 18th (he was running from reporters when leaving the police station)

(http://i31.tinypic.com/2s78fw2.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 11, 2008, 04:20:01 PM
Paulus gave a statement on June 14...wouldn't you like to read that one?  I bet it's totally different than the June 18 one.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 11, 2008, 04:21:51 PM
Remember that when counting suspects the security guards had already been released before Simian made his pronouncement on June 22nd. Therefore you would not count them in the mix. That leaves:

Deepak
Satish
Joran
Steve
And whoever that person was that was arrested right after Steve Croes.

 There is a person, we just do not know who it was.  Mum thinks it was Freddy, I think it was Lorenzo.  Why? Because we find evidence that these two were questioned somewhere along this time line and before Paulus was arrested on the 22 or 23rd.  Some have said Lorenzo was questioned on the 16th...that is after the guards were released and before Paulus was arrested and if true...right before Simian began posting...Freddy also fits in this same scenario too...much more  indication that he was questioned as a possible suspect before Lorenzo.  The rumor on the blogs and on Aruba, as relayed by various posters there, was it was Lorenzo....but I have nothing to prove that as of yet.  I welcome evidence to the contrary....I would like to eliminate one or both of these two if I could.

The first time paulus was brought in for a 4 hour interrogation was on saturday june 18th (he was running from reporters when leaving the police station)

(http://i31.tinypic.com/2s78fw2.jpg)

But he wasn't arrested until the 22nd or 23rd.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 11, 2008, 04:26:32 PM
Lala’s…Freddy is supposed to be Venezeulan and Jaime Columbian….I think I’ll broaden my search!

Thruthseeker…this from Joran’s book…the bolded part tells me that Freddy was questioned before June 9th. 2005…


P179-181

Wednesday June 22, 2005

While being transferred from police station to KIA, Deepak and Satish are secretly recorded in a 40min conversation:

S: Anyway, he seems to know everything better.
D: He knows our rule, we trust him as a friend, like a brother to be close
with (???)
S: Anyway, bad luck.
D: And I also trusted Freddy like a brother.
S: Yes.
D: But he also talked shit, that's why we've been arrested.
S: What did he say?
D: He keeps information behind. You know that Van der Sloot trusts Freddy
with his life. Freddy knows what has happened. Freddy knows the truth.
S: I know he knows truth
D: Freddy knows, Freddy knows.
S: I've just said, Freddy also knows about the story of what happened, ask
him.
D: Freddy knows
S: Yes, he knows that if that person maybe has told him some details (???)
that I don't know, but I also know what that person has told me. That is the
first and the story that we made up, that I know (???)
D: That boy is also arrested, no. Steve. He has been solved too, so then
it's solved too (???)
S: He didn't do a thing.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 11, 2008, 04:30:23 PM
5th Suspect and Dirty Hand....LOL

I have seen more than my share of theories, but let's look at them...

Dirty Hand possibilities:
Jan van der Straten
Rudy Croes
Ben Vocking
Paulus van der Sloot
Ronny Bernadina
Karen Jansen
I have even seen the SG mentioned as DH and also Nelson Oduber. 

5th Suspect possibilities:
Freddy Abrambatizs
Steve Croes
Lorenzo van Rijn or Gijn
Koen or Sander Gottenbos
Paulus van der Sloot
Geoffrey van Cromvoit
I have even seen Joran, Jaime and Val mentioned.

So there you have it...just a few of the usual suspects.  So which ones fit???  I wish Caps would weigh in with his thoughts too.


Based on times suspects (not witnesses) were arrested, not counting the two black security guards it would have to be GVC, otherwise it would the three original perps, Joran would fall fifth.  There are two fifth suspects, actually and both seem to fill the bill.  Maybe there are supposed to be two fifth suspects.    Jack b

When was GVC arrested? 

april 2006?

Nein, Guido in May of 2006 and GVC in June 14 or 15 2006.   


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 11, 2008, 04:32:54 PM
Also Paulus gave a statement on June 18 right after Steve Croes was arrested.  In he is talking about Freddy...

Freddy had told this story shortly after he was interviewed by the police. He had called my wife and had said that he found it important to tell the truth. After that he came over to us and he first talked to my wife. After that he came back one time and and he spoke with Joran's lawyer, his parents, me and my wife were also present. My wife and myself were very saddened and angry at Joran for apparently not telling us the truth. My wife and the lawyer then confronted Joran about this. According to my wife Joran reacted calmly and said that he had always told Freddy the truth.

It is clear that Paulus is trying to distance himself from the "no body, no case" comments also:

To your question whether my son asked if no body would be found that there would be no case, I can state the following. I cannot remember Joran having asked me this. I have said on several occasions that if the girl were not found, this could pose a problem for them, on top of that would be the uncertainty whether a crime and what crime had been committed.


Mum...this goes back to our Zeolla discussion...too bad those pages before that are missing in Paulus PV...

spoken. With some friends who visited us we undoubtedly spoke about this because it was on our minds too. Some of our friends are members of  “Friends of Aruba” and were closely involved with the search for the girl.



Basically the Zeolla's are Paulus' alibi....they were watching Sebastion...If he is in the Netherlands Paulus has no alibi!



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 11, 2008, 04:37:12 PM
5th Suspect and Dirty Hand....LOL

I have seen more than my share of theories, but let's look at them...

Dirty Hand possibilities:
Jan van der Straten
Rudy Croes
Ben Vocking
Paulus van der Sloot
Ronny Bernadina
Karen Jansen
I have even seen the SG mentioned as DH and also Nelson Oduber. 

5th Suspect possibilities:
Freddy Abrambatizs
Steve Croes
Lorenzo van Rijn or Gijn
Koen or Sander Gottenbos
Paulus van der Sloot
Geoffrey van Cromvoit
I have even seen Joran, Jaime and Val mentioned.

So there you have it...just a few of the usual suspects.  So which ones fit???  I wish Caps would weigh in with his thoughts too.


Based on times suspects (not witnesses) were arrested, not counting the two black security guards it would have to be GVC, otherwise it would the three original perps, Joran would fall fifth.  There are two fifth suspects, actually and both seem to fill the bill.  Maybe there are supposed to be two fifth suspects.    Jack b

When was GVC arrested? 

april 2006?

Nein, Guido in May of 2006 and GVC in June 14 or 15 2006.   

4/15/2006...GVC

http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/Statements_timeline.htm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 11, 2008, 04:42:55 PM


But he wasn't arrested until the 22nd or 23rd.

Was Freddy ever arrested?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 11, 2008, 04:47:04 PM


But he wasn't arrested until the 22nd or 23rd.

Was Freddy ever arrested?

Not until late August 2005 when the Kalpoes were re-arrested according to ALE...On charges unrelated to Natalee Holloway.....

Where is that bag of salt?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 11, 2008, 04:47:19 PM
Lala’s…Freddy is supposed to be Venezeulan and Jaime Columbian….I think I’ll broaden my search!

Thruthseeker…this from Joran’s book…the bolded part tells me that Freddy was questioned before June 9th. 2005…


P179-181

Wednesday June 22, 2005

While being transferred from police station to KIA, Deepak and Satish are secretly recorded in a 40min conversation:

S: Anyway, he seems to know everything better.
D: He knows our rule, we trust him as a friend, like a brother to be close
with (???)
S: Anyway, bad luck.
D: And I also trusted Freddy like a brother.
S: Yes.
D: But he also talked shit, that's why we've been arrested.
S: What did he say?
D: He keeps information behind. You know that Van der Sloot trusts Freddy
with his life. Freddy knows what has happened. Freddy knows the truth.
S: I know he knows truth
D: Freddy knows, Freddy knows.
S: I've just said, Freddy also knows about the story of what happened, ask
him.
D: Freddy knows
S: Yes, he knows that if that person maybe has told him some details (???)
that I don't know, but I also know what that person has told me. That is the
first and the story that we made up, that I know (???)
D: That boy is also arrested, no. Steve. He has been solved too, so then
it's solved too (???)
S: He didn't do a thing.



And what did Freddy say that got the Kalpoes arrested?  Hmmmmm.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 11, 2008, 04:52:45 PM
Lala’s…Freddy is supposed to be Venezeulan and Jaime Columbian….I think I’ll broaden my search!

Thruthseeker…this from Joran’s book…the bolded part tells me that Freddy was questioned before June 9th. 2005…


P179-181

Wednesday June 22, 2005

While being transferred from police station to KIA, Deepak and Satish are secretly recorded in a 40min conversation:

S: Anyway, he seems to know everything better.
D: He knows our rule, we trust him as a friend, like a brother to be close
with (???)
S: Anyway, bad luck.
D: And I also trusted Freddy like a brother.
S: Yes.
D: But he also talked shit, that's why we've been arrested.
S: What did he say?
D: He keeps information behind. You know that Van der Sloot trusts Freddy
with his life. Freddy knows what has happened. Freddy knows the truth.
S: I know he knows truth
D: Freddy knows, Freddy knows.
S: I've just said, Freddy also knows about the story of what happened, ask
him.
D: Freddy knows
S: Yes, he knows that if that person maybe has told him some details (???)
that I don't know, but I also know what that person has told me. That is the
first and the story that we made up, that I know (???)
D: That boy is also arrested, no. Steve. He has been solved too, so then
it's solved too (???)
S: He didn't do a thing.



And what did Freddy say that got the Kalpoes arrested?  Hmmmmm.


And when did he say it?

I'm beginning to think Freddy is one of those suspects that get preferential treatment and slipped out the back door when they are released!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 11, 2008, 05:00:52 PM
Lala’s…Freddy is supposed to be Venezeulan and Jaime Columbian….I think I’ll broaden my search!

Thruthseeker…this from Joran’s book…the bolded part tells me that Freddy was questioned before June 9th. 2005…


P179-181

Wednesday June 22, 2005

While being transferred from police station to KIA, Deepak and Satish are secretly recorded in a 40min conversation:

S: Anyway, he seems to know everything better.
D: He knows our rule, we trust him as a friend, like a brother to be close
with (???)
S: Anyway, bad luck.
D: And I also trusted Freddy like a brother.
S: Yes.
D: But he also talked shit, that's why we've been arrested.
S: What did he say?
D: He keeps information behind. You know that Van der Sloot trusts Freddy
with his life. Freddy knows what has happened. Freddy knows the truth.
S: I know he knows truth
D: Freddy knows, Freddy knows.
S: I've just said, Freddy also knows about the story of what happened, ask
him.
D: Freddy knows
S: Yes, he knows that if that person maybe has told him some details (???)
that I don't know, but I also know what that person has told me. That is the
first and the story that we made up, that I know (???)
D: That boy is also arrested, no. Steve. He has been solved too, so then
it's solved too (???)
S: He didn't do a thing.



And what did Freddy say that got the Kalpoes arrested?  Hmmmmm.

Maybe this could have something to do with it:

Joran: Deepak and I had agreed that we should talk a lot on the phone and "Chat" a lot on internet to make our story believable. I must also state that I had talked to Freddy and my parents about the fact that Deepak could have gone back to the girl. Freddy also said that if Deepak indeed went back to the girl that I was in big trouble because I was the last person seen with the girl. Freddy had told me that to be safe I should record a conversation between Deepak, Satish and myself.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 11, 2008, 05:19:05 PM


But he wasn't arrested until the 22nd or 23rd.

Was Freddy ever arrested?

Not until late August 2005 when the Kalpoes were re-arrested according to ALE...On charges unrelated to Natalee Holloway.....

Where is that bag of salt?

My point exactly!!!  Paulus was not arrested until the day Simian began the 5th suspect talk. Simian indicates that the 5th suspect has already been cleared.   It's long, but it's in context...



crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:29 pm

Sim - Right now we hear Joran has changed his story again - what do your hear?



#  ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:29 pm

JON—-Ok I kinda figured something like that and I know you have heard several stories from allot ppl who were on the trip that is if you were’nt, but did anyone say y they didnt stop her? Or is it that no one saw her go in the car period?

# frank on June 22nd, 2005 4:30 pm

Wild stories. Things must be different in Aruba. In the US this would have already been leaked to the media.

We are all over speculating. An arrogant 17 year old kid is not that savy. A 26 year old DJ does not have a lot of credability either. If either of them had the kind of contacts necessary to pull of a human smuggling plot they would all already dead. It took the police over a week to arrest, trust me the mastermind behind something like that would have made sure there were no weak links. Like a mouthy 17 year old kid.

Here is the kicker though. Even in the simplest and most likely theory that something went wrong and they dumped the body. These kids would 100% leave obvious clues. They are not criminal masterminds. I am sure that the FBI knows what to look for immediately. Simple things, that even intelligent people like an Aruban judge would overlook.

The 26 year DJ puzzles me simply becuase of how he fits in and why…If I was dropped off by my friends and committed this crime alone. I would not tell or bring in a soul. I would figure this out on my own. You can never count on anybody not to talk. That is why serial killers do not traditionally have partners.

Even if this kid had an accident, maybe went skinny dippping and NH did not resurface. He should fry. He should fry for holding out and having a cavalier attitude.


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:30 pm

Vanessa - either that or he has told all he knows.


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:31 pm

I tried to, but I got a message saying that my post would bo placed in through the moderator. I tried again and got the same message. Maybe I am not allowed to say what I know.



# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 4:32 pm

You mean he has been talking for the past 3 weeks, and NOW he decides to shut up? What a jerk. Obviously since Nat has not been found, he hasn’t given much concrete info to begin with. Why shut up now Joran. I mean have you even given authorities a clue on where Nat might be? Why stop talking now.

give me a break!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


# CountryMoon on June 22nd, 2005 4:32 pm

I second all that Jon has said. Stop the rediculous rumors. Nat is a great girl. She has no reason to want to run away.
I never implied anything *******.
We second what Jon has said, we just want her to come home safe so that this whole nightmare can finally be over. Its interrupted everyones life and its very hard to deal with all of this. I think that is the main reason why we have come and read these polls, we want answers just like everyone else. Any little bit helps.



# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 4:33 pm

Sim - say it in another language and we’ll translate.



# Stefe McHearthy on June 22nd, 2005 4:34 pm

@ MOFOfromMO
Don’t you have any job or obligation to fulfill?

Or are you the one sponsored by Bin Laden….



# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 4:36 pm

We have to know that “Montana” (house where Joran and family lives) is really part of “Noord”. I reported yesterday that there was something going on. It was the parents finally meeting each other. Aruba is working.



# Red on June 22nd, 2005 4:36 pm

Just a heads up …

according to CNN, Scared Monkeys is supposed to be featured on “Inside the Blogs” today at 4:50 - 4:55 pm.

Thanks


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:37 pm

Checkme - any new tidbits you can provide today? Do you still think what we talked about yesterday to be true?



# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 4:38 pm

CountryMoon - I think the best thing Nat’s family has done is to keep this story in the spotlight!!! My advice to you and her family is to try and keep it in the front page of every newspaper, and on the news in every state/country. I think with enough publicity Nat will come home! KEEP THE MEDIA involved. Even if what they say are rumors and nothing is a fact, it keeps the story in the news!!!! That is what’s important. GOD BLESS NATALEE!



# frank on June 22nd, 2005 4:39 pm

Also, if there is more than one party involved. Somebody needs to explain to this kid that he is about to ass-raped for a very longtime. How long depends on who cracks first…

How is that for drama. Just like Law and Order


# Mark 2 on June 22nd, 2005 4:40 pm

I don’t know Natalee, but I don’t see any way that Natalee would run away and put her mother through such grief. The pictures they show of them together indicate they have a pretty close bond. Unless she is an absolute cook, which she doesn’t seem to be, there is no way she would put her mother through this.



# pktbk on June 22nd, 2005 4:41 pm

jake….that is true. even if her parents have to leave. they need to be on tv or newspapers everyday to keep this going.

checkme—you were spot on yesterday.


# ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:42 pm

Country Moon do u believe she was drugged also?


# frank on June 22nd, 2005 4:42 pm

and either way, wether this punk thinks he can be free in 120 days or whatever the law is. If I was NH family and this does not come to a close by then. I would make sure he is silienced for good. One way or another.

Just make sure they hire someone that will torture the little punk first. Everyone is talks tough until you cut a finger off.


# MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 4:42 pm

**Stefe McHearthy Says:

June 22nd, 2005 at 4:34 pm
@ MOFOfromMO
Don’t you have any job or obligation to fulfill?

Or are you the one sponsored by Bin Laden….**

You are a LOSER. And I don’t need a reject trying to be my daddy, when I already have a wonderful one.

Don’t YOU have a life, other than attempting to cast insults on people obviously better than you are?

Good grief! You are pathetic!!! No wonder some animals eat their young!



# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 4:43 pm

June 16, 2005 08:26 AM on RiehlWorldView:

“I have always loved Aruba for it’s multi cultural society. Even to see how under extreme stress we can still see each others humanity gives me hope. On this island the distances are very short so you cannot remain distant and judge coldly. “



# ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:43 pm

Is Simian gone??


# pktbk on June 22nd, 2005 4:44 pm

do you think it odd that not only do we mainly hear about joran, not the brothers. but also that steve croes is a friend of the brothers, not so much joran. i think there is something going on in regards to the brothers. there is no spotlight on them right now.


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:45 pm

I hope they find her. The gov’t and the private sector should give the whole island the day off to go wave her goodbye at the Airport.


# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 4:46 pm

Do you guys believe that Simien tried to send us a message and got placed in a “moderator”????? Do you think he’s for real? Or are his walls padded? Or maybe he needs a nap?



# ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:46 pm

pktbk I totally agree, b/c they were the first ones sent to the big Prison not Joran, so y him and not them.


# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 4:47 pm

You got it pktbk.

CRS, all still stands dude.


# CountryMoon on June 22nd, 2005 4:47 pm

If those three boys want everyone to believe that they did to her what they had claimed in their first, second, and third version of their stories, when they were trying to smear her name, then given her character she would have had to of be drugged. I am not saying that she was though. There are different interpretations on how she looked when she left that night. Every one was just so busy having a good time, and the idea of something bad actually happening was the farthest from everyones minds. I can not really comment further on that.


# Stefe McHearthy on June 22nd, 2005 4:47 pm

@ MOFOfromMO
Thanks for confirming!



# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:47 pm

what was up with Checkme’s last post. Checkme, give me something today - you are always right on.



# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:48 pm

I am here. Can’t say the things I want…




# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:48 pm

Thanks checkme!!



# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 4:49 pm

Sorry CRS, gotta go.



# frank on June 22nd, 2005 4:49 pm

We only hear from Joran because he is the weakest. The other 2 do not have as much to loose.



# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:50 pm

Tom/Red - can you elaborate at all on Simian?



# pktbk on June 22nd, 2005 4:50 pm

*mouth wide open*

all i can think is what came from an aruban poster in regards to them not really liking the dutch or other minorities. so scapegoat the two black security guards, and scapegoat the rich dutch boy….



# MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 4:50 pm

Jake to Simian: Oopsey…I think Simian’s back. Maybe he could answer about the ‘padded walls’. :O



# Stefe McHearthy on June 22nd, 2005 4:50 pm

@ MOFOfromMO
And now comes the true hard part:
Put down that bottle!
I realize it is very hard but give it a try. There are people who care about you!!


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:50 pm

Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.



# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 4:52 pm

WO!




# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:53 pm

Sim can you elaborate anymore than that? Is this your opinion or based on something mre concrete?



# pktbk on June 22nd, 2005 4:53 pm

wow…..we’ve made more progress in the last five minutes than all week!!


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 4:54 pm

pktbk - sim is contradicting what checkme says. Thoughts?


# ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:55 pm

pktbk— where did u hear that they didnt like black or the dutch kid, b/c they seemed to hang out with him more than once.



# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 4:55 pm

What did CheckMe say?



# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:56 pm

The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.
[/b]


#  MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 4:57 pm

Stefe:

****yawn****

You’re boring me.


# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 4:57 pm

Sim - what is the other side of the pond? Is it a place, or is it an organization?



# ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 4:58 pm

wat alibi does the 5ht suspect have??


# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 4:59 pm

Who is the 5th suspect? There are now 4. Who is the 5th?


# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 4:59 pm

“the other side of the pond” - the Aruban Mafia


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:00 pm

The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:02 pm

The other side of pond I assume is the us and you are insinuting it is her friends/family involved.


# ladyJA on June 22nd, 2005 5:02 pm

whose boyfriend earlier in the week??????


# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 5:02 pm

Huh Simian?


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:02 pm

What boyfriend? Whose? I am confused Sim.



# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:03 pm

This is getting really bizarre. Who’s boyfriend from earlier in the week?


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:03 pm

The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?



#  MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 5:03 pm

Simian:
Boyfriend from earlier? Can you elaborate??

Thanx!


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:03 pm

Sim - i am totally lost on what you are saying.



# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:04 pm

SImian
Is #5 Van Rijn????????



# Stefe McHearthy on June 22nd, 2005 5:04 pm

@ MOFOfromMO
And I want to say that I care about you! But you need to work on yourself! That is not easy. Nobody sais it is easy! You will receive the guidance and love you need if you step up and be honest!

Stefe.


# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:06 pm

I think he is saying NH had an earlier aquaintance during the first couple of days of the trip — I think.


# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:06 pm

crs
I think you blew the cover.


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:06 pm

Stefe - why have you gone psycho on mom, chill out.


# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:07 pm

This is BS. I don’t believe that NH family or friends had anything to do with this! This is not what this case is about. Stop trying to throw us off track here. The MAIN SUSPECTS and CULPRITS in this case are the ones that are in jail right now. I don’t think we should let anyone take us away from that. We heard from Country Moon that Nat and Family are really good people, and I believe it! I truly do! You can tell by all the pictures. I still believe it is Joran and friends!


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:07 pm

rem - you may be right.


# MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 5:07 pm

Stefe:

What exactly is your purpose in this forum????

No one cares what the hell you are talking about. Please stay on topic or go back to pre-school.


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:09 pm

A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.



# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:11 pm

Was the lover on the trip??


# Stefe McHearthy on June 22nd, 2005 5:12 pm

@ MOFOfromMO
You know it is exactly on topic.
Do what you feel is right.


# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:12 pm

Sim -Surely your not saying a local MT brook boyfriend would be involved in this, would you.


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:13 pm

A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.



# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:14 pm

Sim -I think your reaching


# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:15 pm

How could a local MT boyfriend be involved. The FBI would have cracked this case already through phone records and the internet. I don’t believe this. This is yet ANOTHER rumor!


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:16 pm

He had to be let go.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 11, 2008, 05:24:54 PM
Quote from JE:

Maybe this could have something to do with it:

Joran: Deepak and I had agreed that we should talk a lot on the phone and "Chat" a lot on internet to make our story believable. I must also state that I had talked to Freddy and my parents about the fact that Deepak could have gone back to the girl. Freddy also said that if Deepak indeed went back to the girl that I was in big trouble because I was the last person seen with the girl. Freddy had told me that to be safe I should record a conversation between Deepak, Satish and myself.


For Freddy to have said something that got Deepak and Satish arrested it would need to be on the record, right?  So Freddy gave a statement prior to their arrest and it wasn't an alibi like Steve Croes.  So if they arrested Steve because he DID alibi the Kalpoes...why would they not have arrested Freddy for what he said?   I guess the important thing is what time did Freddy say whatever it was that got them arrested?  That has to be on the record somewhere...in all the jumble of information.  I wish I could find it.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 11, 2008, 05:40:33 PM
Quote from JE:

Maybe this could have something to do with it:

Joran: Deepak and I had agreed that we should talk a lot on the phone and "Chat" a lot on internet to make our story believable. I must also state that I had talked to Freddy and my parents about the fact that Deepak could have gone back to the girl. Freddy also said that if Deepak indeed went back to the girl that I was in big trouble because I was the last person seen with the girl. Freddy had told me that to be safe I should record a conversation between Deepak, Satish and myself.


For Freddy to have said something that got Deepak and Satish arrested it would need to be on the record, right?  So Freddy gave a statement prior to their arrest and it wasn't an alibi like Steve Croes.  So if they arrested Steve because he DID alibi the Kalpoes...why would they not have arrested Freddy for what he said?   I guess the important thing is what time did Freddy say whatever it was that got them arrested?  That has to be on the record somewhere...in all the jumble of information.  I wish I could find it.  :roll:

So do I lol

another shot, from freddy's june 12 PV:

After that Joran told me that Deepak, Satish and he didn't drop of the missing girl at the Holiday Inn Hotel, but that the four of them had driven to the beach north of the Mariott Hotel. The girl fell multiple times on the way to the beach. Joran told me that at some point the girl didn't recover anymore and that they had left her on the beach. He also told that he left his sport shoes on the beach. After Joran told me this I asked him why he had left her behind. He answered me that he didn't knew what to do at that moment. Joran told me that after that he was
dropped off at home by Deepak and Satish.
On friday evening June 3 I met Joran at his home. [...] He told me that during this period he could not remember if they bought food or did something else.

Maybe he told the police that all four of em were at the beach? just guessing here

In your post before this one there was this comment by simian:

# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 4:31 pm

I tried to, but I got a message saying that my post would bo placed in through the moderator. I tried again and got the same message. Maybe I am not allowed to say what I know.


I read that whole page and i believe he is refering to typing the word "casino". apparently when typing the word casino in a post you got a message saying "your post is awaiting moderation""

He later typed this as C@$ino in his post about meeting a wild and crazy guy in the C@$ino


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 11, 2008, 05:59:27 PM
The whole C@$ino discussion is on this page

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/21/beth-twitty-and-the-van-der-sloots-meet/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 11, 2008, 06:01:37 PM
Lala's do you know on what date Simian started posting?
Earliest I found was june 17th 2005


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 11, 2008, 06:31:01 PM
interesting posts

Checkme on June 16th, 2005 5:41 pm

There was a pic online showing a house in Savaneta, where Karin Jansen was at the door, and the guy who loves there is a known drug dealer. (He drives around in a souped-up grafiti truck (after he crashed his brand new audi TT 2 years ago). In the same scene as the Kalpoes. Where did they get the money to drive that grey car?) I hear a persistent mention of this fourth person on the local radio. Dealing drugs requires a network ring. Sources (savaneta), distributions (Kalpoes) and fronts (van der Sloot, with or without his knowing).


Checkme on June 17th, 2005 9:17 am

Savaneta is on the east side of Aruba. This morning’s local newpaper reports a person being detained at Saveta. I have seen pics of this person’s house in savaneta on the net, on the day they arrested the three.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 11, 2008, 06:33:32 PM
one more

Checkme on June 16th, 2005 5:30 pm

He would have a one hour walk, after he disposed of the body? I think the Kalpoes continued NH, hurt her, called in help (from a fourth person (savaneta!!!)). There is another evil soul involved and it is not the van der Sloot’s.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Destiny on March 11, 2008, 06:38:01 PM
Lala’s…Freddy is supposed to be Venezeulan and Jaime Columbian….I think I’ll broaden my search!



Thruthseeker…this from Joran’s book…the bolded part tells me that Freddy was questioned before June 9th. 2005…

Destiny plays with words...my own translations...in red...

P179-181

Wednesday June 22, 2005

While being transferred from police station to KIA, Deepak and Satish are secretly recorded in a 40min conversation:

S: Anyway, he seems to know everything better.
He knows more that we thought...
D: He knows our rule, we trust him as a friend, like a brother to be close
with (???)
Man we're getting screwed over...HE knows the rules of the *game*
S: Anyway, bad luck.
Yes, but what's done is done...
D: And I also trusted Freddy like a brother.
I really thought he could be trusted...man this is bad...
S: Yes.
So did I...we're in deep shit now...
D: But he also talked shit, that's why we've been arrested.
He's talking too much...we're really screwed...he shouldn't have said any of that.
S: What did he say?
How much do you think he's told?
D: He keeps information behind. You know that Van der Sloot trusts Freddy
with his life. Freddy knows what has happened. Freddy knows the truth.
Just enough to keep his ass out of bad trouble...Freddy knows what VDS really did...he knows it...you know he told Freddy everything...he's changing the story too...
S: I know he knows truth
So Freddy know everything now?
D: Freddy knows, Freddy knows.
Yes...I think he knows everthing...VDS told him everything...shit!
S: I've just said, Freddy also knows about the story of what happened, ask
him
I'm telling you Dude...we're in bad trouble.... ask Freddy if you don't believe me..
D: Freddy knows
Shit!
S: Yes, he knows that if that person maybe has told him some details (???)
that I don't know, but I also know what that person has told me. That is the
first and the story that we made up, that I know (???)
Freddy just thinks he knows everything I know...but he doesn't...
D: That boy is also arrested, no. Steve. He has been solved too, so then
it's solved too (???)
If Steve gets arrested...he'll be found out (found out=solved) then everything will be found out...
S: He didn't do a thing.
He doesn't know about Steve...



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 11, 2008, 06:44:39 PM
Lala's do you know on what date Simian started posting?
Earliest I found was june 17th 2005
[/quote  I believe GVC WAS arrested April 15 or 16 of 06.  I was not at home earlier and did not have access to my outside storage, but I looked an arrest date up on here.  The arrest of GVC was reported by Maryanne Croes I believe on 17 April, but I kept thinking he was arrested about the 15 or 16th.   Jack Blue


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Destiny on March 11, 2008, 06:45:52 PM
interesting posts

Checkme on June 16th, 2005 5:41 pm

There was a pic online showing a house in Savaneta, where Karin Jansen was at the door, and the guy who loves there is a known drug dealer. (He drives around in a souped-up grafiti truck (after he crashed his brand new audi TT 2 years ago). In the same scene as the Kalpoes. Where did they get the money to drive that grey car?) I hear a persistent mention of this fourth person on the local radio. Dealing drugs requires a network ring. Sources (savaneta), distributions (Kalpoes) and fronts (van der Sloot, with or without his knowing).


Checkme on June 17th, 2005 9:17 am

Savaneta is on the east side of Aruba. This morning’s local newpaper reports a person being detained at Saveta. I have seen pics of this person’s house in savaneta on the net, on the day they arrested the three.


Lorenzo's home...and Urine's half brother via Papa Sloot...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 11, 2008, 06:53:14 PM
Lala’s…Freddy is supposed to be Venezeulan and Jaime Columbian….I think I’ll broaden my search!



Thruthseeker…this from Joran’s book…the bolded part tells me that Freddy was questioned before June 9th. 2005…

Destiny plays with words...my own translations...in red...

P179-181

Wednesday June 22, 2005

While being transferred from police station to KIA, Deepak and Satish are secretly recorded in a 40min conversation:

S: Anyway, he seems to know everything better.
He knows more that we thought...
D: He knows our rule, we trust him as a friend, like a brother to be close
with (???)
Man we're getting screwed over...HE knows the rules of the *game*
S: Anyway, bad luck.
Yes, but what's done is done...
D: And I also trusted Freddy like a brother.
I really thought he could be trusted...man this is bad...
S: Yes.
So did I...we're in deep shit now...
D: But he also talked shit, that's why we've been arrested.
He's talking too much...we're really screwed...he shouldn't have said any of that.
S: What did he say?
How much do you think he's told?
D: He keeps information behind. You know that Van der Sloot trusts Freddy
with his life. Freddy knows what has happened. Freddy knows the truth.
Just enough to keep his ass out of bad trouble...Freddy knows what VDS really did...he knows it...you know he told Freddy everything...he's changing the story too...
S: I know he knows truth
So Freddy know everything now?
D: Freddy knows, Freddy knows.
Yes...I think he knows everthing...VDS told him everything...shit!
S: I've just said, Freddy also knows about the story of what happened, ask
him
I'm telling you Dude...we're in bad trouble.... ask Freddy if you don't believe me..
D: Freddy knows
Shit!
S: Yes, he knows that if that person maybe has told him some details (???)
that I don't know, but I also know what that person has told me. That is the
first and the story that we made up, that I know (???)
Freddy just thinks he knows everything I know...but he doesn't...
D: That boy is also arrested, no. Steve. He has been solved too, so then
it's solved too (???)
If Steve gets arrested...he'll be found out (found out=solved) then everything will be found out...
S: He didn't do a thing.
He doesn't know about Steve...


Who is "that person"?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 11, 2008, 06:57:55 PM
Lala’s…Freddy is supposed to be Venezeulan and Jaime Columbian….I think I’ll broaden my search!

Thruthseeker…this from Joran’s book…the bolded part tells me that Freddy was questioned before June 9th. 2005…


P179-181

Wednesday June 22, 2005

While being transferred from police station to KIA, Deepak and Satish are secretly recorded in a 40min conversation:

S: Anyway, he seems to know everything better.
D: He knows our rule, we trust him as a friend, like a brother to be close
with (???)
S: Anyway, bad luck.
D: And I also trusted Freddy like a brother.
S: Yes.
D: But he also talked shit, that's why we've been arrested.
S: What did he say?
D: He keeps information behind. You know that Van der Sloot trusts Freddy
with his life. Freddy knows what has happened. Freddy knows the truth.
S: I know he knows truth
D: Freddy knows, Freddy knows.
S: I've just said, Freddy also knows about the story of what happened, ask
him.
D: Freddy knows
S: Yes, he knows that if that person maybe has told him some details (???)
that I don't know, but I also know what that person has told me. That is the
first and the story that we made up, that I know (???)
D: That boy is also arrested, no. Steve. He has been solved too, so then
it's solved too (???)
S: He didn't do a thing.



And what did Freddy say that got the Kalpoes arrested?  Hmmmmm.


And when did he say it?

I'm beginning to think Freddy is one of those suspects that get preferential treatment and slipped out the back door when they are released!
 

The Cromvroits said GVC was home with them.  How tight is that?  He was arrested April 2006,  I messed up earlier.   jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 11, 2008, 07:05:15 PM
LOL…At Destiny…here is the whole thing…. ::MonkeyDance::

JE…THAT PERSON…I wonder that every time I read it and forget to ask!...Thanks!

P179-181

Wednesday June 22, 2005

While being transferred from police station to KIA, Deepak and Satish are secretly recorded in a 40min conversation:

D: I'm not going outside much (in prison), since they're asking too much
shit.
S: When you stay on your own, you'll start to think too much, so don't stay
on your own. Talk to people. Play domino.
D: I've told them that they should arrest Freddy as well.
S: The three of us have been arrested, but he just knows the truth.
D: I've told them to arrest Koen and Sander as well. f***ing all of them.
From me, they won't get any hint, as long as the truth keeps hanging. None
of them are friends, except for us. Do you get it? Do I get it? (<- this is
a Dutch saying when " something doesn't make sense")
S: I have nothing, there is nothing, nothing from me and I didn't do
anything.
D: I'm not afraid of that shit
S: I'm not afraid. I don't worry.
D: I want them to get ("find") the girl, so, but preferably alive. But
anyway, if they'll find her dead, yeh, then that's bad luck for the family.
But when they find her, they'll know exactly who did it. That's what I all
learned from (???). I want them to get her. I know (???)
S: I know where I am. I am close to the truth. I'm always close to the
truth.
D: I'm not afraid. I do miss mum and all those things. That bores me.
S: Yes.
D: Not that I'm afraid. The worst has already happened. I've already come to
the worst place, so nothing worse than this can happen, do you understand?
But I know, that when I get outside (be released) then they are going to pay
me very well.
D: I'm not afraid. It also depends on that f***ing statement. Yeh, since
there's one (or a) person who changes his story every time. That (person)
has made already six statements, I guess. But they are all pure shit (???)
and I'm still in it (here).
S: (???)
D: You push (???)
S: And by let give to let go (???)
D: It is impossible, swa. When you start that car the whole neighborhood
will hear it.
S: Anyway, he seems to know everything better.
D: He knows our rule, we trust him as a friend, like a brother to be close
with (???)
S: Anyway, bad luck.
D: And I also trusted Freddy like a brother.
S: Yes.
D: But he also talked shit, that's why we've been arrested.
S: What did he say?
D: He keeps information behind. You know that Van der Sloot trusts Freddy
with his life. Freddy knows what has happened. Freddy knows the truth.
S: I know he knows truth
D: Freddy knows, Freddy knows.
S: I've just said, Freddy also knows about the story of what happened, ask
him.
D: Freddy knows
S: Yes, he knows that if that person maybe has told him some details (???)
that I don't know, but I also know what that person has told me. That is the
first and the story that we made up, that I know (???)
D: That boy is also arrested, no. Steve. He has been solved too, so then
it's solved too (???)
S: He didn't do a thing.
D: It has been solved.
(.)
D: Up till today, I haven't told any shit about him, whether he did
something with the girl or that the chick.
S: We've only told the truth
D: Yep, because he hasn't told me anything and I don't know it. I'm not
gonna lie about him. But the more he talks (??????) I would never never
never talk shit about him like: "he did do this or that to the girl",
because I don't know.
S: Must just declare the truth
D: I'll never do that. But let him talk shit. I'll never say something
against or about (???) him. Never, just tell the truth. And that's also what
I've always declared in my statements. His attorney will point that out to
himself. I'll never (falsely) accuse somebody.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 11, 2008, 07:06:25 PM
Maybe Kalpoes only thought freddy was responsable for them being arrested?

This would be a good reason
(http://i25.tinypic.com/2lbcat.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 11, 2008, 07:15:31 PM
Here are a few of the conversations that happened on the FP just before Simian appeared.  As you can see, Checkme was already posting.  They are discussing the 4th and 5th person arrested.  It is confused already by this time.  The media in USA seemed to be saying Steve Croes was arrested first and then the 5th person...notice then that both are reversed according to Checkme.


Story from FP of Scared Monkeys: June 17th, 2005
9:14am **** UPDATE ****
4th arrest made in Natalee Holloway case

9:17 am: From one of our great sources in Aruba, americaninaruba …

    today 6am police go into house in Sta Cruz where they go with one person ……with initials S.C. this arrest took place 6am this morning…surprised the family with this arrest….we got different information, but we want to get all concrete things together before we bring this news to you…..we dont want to confuse anyone! we want to say that their is suspicion that she is ALIVE! but we dont want to bring up any suspicion to anyone but we will be back with info if this person has information for this case…also in Savaneta they took someone for interogation…..we are hoping this will come to an end, with all this suspicion we believe shes alive…..stay pending…..thank you harry

****
At 9:50 am: MSNBC & Fox have just reported the arrest of a fourth suspect. A 27 year old man.
It has been confirmed by Fox speaking to individual in Justice department 4th arrest 26 year old friend of joran

Fox News now reporting: Sources: 4th Person Arrested in Aruba Mystery

    Authorities in Aruba arrested a fourth man in connection with the disappearance of missing Alabama honors student Natalee Holloway, sources told FOX News.

    The new person detained is a 26-year-old friend of Joran van der Sloot — who was with Holloway the night she disappeared, sources said. Van der Sloot, 17, has been detained but not charged.

****
Unbelievable, after 18 days a fourth suspect now confirmed arrested, 26 year old, son of a prominent businessman and alleged friend of joran van der Sloot. Aruban authorities state there is an search going on with regards to this arrest but did not state where.

The boy has the initials SGC, and his father is also high in the judiciary.

Update: 1045 There is a rumor of another person taken into custody, his father recently committed suicide and that he has had serious mental issues since. He has two homes, a house on the main road of savaneta and also another one in Seroe Alejandro, and was know for having underground parties.

This is getting a little bizarre.

From the AP: Fourth Person Detained in Holloway Disappearance

11:00 am:

    ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) - A fourth person has been detained in Aruba in the disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway, authorities announced Friday.
    The person “suspected of being involved” in Holloway’s disappearance was identified by the attorney general’s office only as a 26-year-old with the initials S.G.C. The office did not disclose the gender or say when the person was detained.

According to Top 95 via American in Aruba

The arrest this morning was of a 26 year old. There wwere 2 dutch brothers questioned yesterday may have provided some information that led to this arrest. Also , a family friend of Joran Van Der Sloot was on the radio saying the Joran was a quiet nice boy who liked to go out with friends. The station is holding out hope publicly on the radio that she may be alive.

Let us hope and pray.






#  Checkme on June 17th, 2005 1:23 pm

Connie,
The guy this morning is not Dutch. The guy they brought in last night is. However, it looks like the not-Dutch guy is JvdS’s friend and the Dutch guy is the Kalpoe’s.


# Connie on June 17th, 2005 1:27 pm

I was thinking last night, and I may be reaching a bit. What type of equipment do archiologist use to locate skeletal remains of dinosaurs? Some type of machine that sends echo waves into the earth to determine if there’s something there. I am not quite sure how this equipment works, but that may be something they could use to see if she may have been burried.


# Connie on June 17th, 2005 1:29 pm

Oh, thanks Check, then it is possible that the guy I was this morning was “Freddy” from the pics. I know initials were given, but right off hand I can’t remember what they were. and I’m too lazy to scroll up to see what it was. (lol)


# Jeff Dowder on June 17th, 2005 1:29 pm

Those Kalpoe guys look like those people who work at 7-11’s or indian restaurants.








    The suspects that were called suspects involved with the kidnapping, battering and murder are the ones who went to jail.  The rest are witnesses to information, etc.  Guido and GVC were arrested one month apart the best I can remember and GVC would be no. 5 counting not arresting the Sec. guards.  If the guards were counted it would fall back on Joran.  There is a list on this forum that says the arrests and how and when they were arrested.  That wimp GVC was right in the middle of it and he was NOT home as his parents claim.  That is most likely why the videos disappeared from the casinos, as his dad owns the security business that videos the place.  They lawyered him up so quick and hid him that no one would dare question him again.  They are protecting GVC more than Joran.   Jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 11, 2008, 07:17:44 PM
Lala's do you know on what date Simian started posting?
Earliest I found was june 17th 2005

This was the first on the SM front page…June 17th. IIRC – 2posts and not again until the 22nd.

jackb...there is alot to back up your GVC theory...I just can't put my hands on it right now.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Destiny on March 11, 2008, 07:22:10 PM
Mum....we all need a good laugh at times...as usual...I'm good for a few of them....LOL....Thanks for reposting with all the quotes....I think I should have remembered the whole thing for as many times as I've read it...LOL at myself....*don't get old...it sucks!* should be in my sig line....

Mum scribbled..

LOL…At Destiny…here is the whole thing….


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 11, 2008, 07:32:05 PM
Lala's do you know on what date Simian started posting?
Earliest I found was june 17th 2005

This was the first on the SM front page…June 17th. IIRC – 2posts and not again until the 22nd.

jackb...there is alot to back up your GVC theory...I just can't put my hands on it right now.

Thx


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 11, 2008, 07:37:08 PM
Here are a few of the conversations that happened on the FP just before Simian appeared.  As you can see, Checkme was already posting.  They are discussing the 4th and 5th person arrested.  It is confused already by this time.  The media in USA seemed to be saying Steve Croes was arrested first and then the 5th person...notice then that both are reversed according to Checkme.


Story from FP of Scared Monkeys: June 17th, 2005
9:14am **** UPDATE ****
4th arrest made in Natalee Holloway case

9:17 am: From one of our great sources in Aruba, americaninaruba …

    today 6am police go into house in Sta Cruz where they go with one person ……with initials S.C. this arrest took place 6am this morning…surprised the family with this arrest….we got different information, but we want to get all concrete things together before we bring this news to you…..we dont want to confuse anyone! we want to say that their is suspicion that she is ALIVE! but we dont want to bring up any suspicion to anyone but we will be back with info if this person has information for this case…also in Savaneta they took someone for interogation…..we are hoping this will come to an end, with all this suspicion we believe shes alive…..stay pending…..thank you harry

****
At 9:50 am: MSNBC & Fox have just reported the arrest of a fourth suspect. A 27 year old man.
It has been confirmed by Fox speaking to individual in Justice department 4th arrest 26 year old friend of joran

Fox News now reporting: Sources: 4th Person Arrested in Aruba Mystery

    Authorities in Aruba arrested a fourth man in connection with the disappearance of missing Alabama honors student Natalee Holloway, sources told FOX News.

    The new person detained is a 26-year-old friend of Joran van der Sloot — who was with Holloway the night she disappeared, sources said. Van der Sloot, 17, has been detained but not charged.

****
Unbelievable, after 18 days a fourth suspect now confirmed arrested, 26 year old, son of a prominent businessman and alleged friend of joran van der Sloot. Aruban authorities state there is an search going on with regards to this arrest but did not state where.

The boy has the initials SGC, and his father is also high in the judiciary.

Update: 1045 There is a rumor of another person taken into custody, his father recently committed suicide and that he has had serious mental issues since. He has two homes, a house on the main road of savaneta and also another one in Seroe Alejandro, and was know for having underground parties.

This is getting a little bizarre.

From the AP: Fourth Person Detained in Holloway Disappearance

11:00 am:

    ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) - A fourth person has been detained in Aruba in the disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway, authorities announced Friday.
    The person “suspected of being involved” in Holloway’s disappearance was identified by the attorney general’s office only as a 26-year-old with the initials S.G.C. The office did not disclose the gender or say when the person was detained.

According to Top 95 via American in Aruba

The arrest this morning was of a 26 year old. There wwere 2 dutch brothers questioned yesterday may have provided some information that led to this arrest. Also , a family friend of Joran Van Der Sloot was on the radio saying the Joran was a quiet nice boy who liked to go out with friends. The station is holding out hope publicly on the radio that she may be alive.

Let us hope and pray.






#  Checkme on June 17th, 2005 1:23 pm

Connie,
The guy this morning is not Dutch. The guy they brought in last night is. However, it looks like the not-Dutch guy is JvdS’s friend and the Dutch guy is the Kalpoe’s.


# Connie on June 17th, 2005 1:27 pm

I was thinking last night, and I may be reaching a bit. What type of equipment do archiologist use to locate skeletal remains of dinosaurs? Some type of machine that sends echo waves into the earth to determine if there’s something there. I am not quite sure how this equipment works, but that may be something they could use to see if she may have been burried.


# Connie on June 17th, 2005 1:29 pm

Oh, thanks Check, then it is possible that the guy I was this morning was “Freddy” from the pics. I know initials were given, but right off hand I can’t remember what they were. and I’m too lazy to scroll up to see what it was. (lol)


# Jeff Dowder on June 17th, 2005 1:29 pm

Those Kalpoe guys look like those people who work at 7-11’s or indian restaurants.








    The suspects that were called suspects involved with the kidnapping, battering and murder are the ones who went to jail.  The rest are witnesses to information, etc.  Guido and GVC were arrested one month apart the best I can remember and GVC would be no. 5 counting not arresting the Sec. guards.  If the guards were counted it would fall back on Joran.  There is a list on this forum that says the arrests and how and when they were arrested.  That wimp GVC was right in the middle of it and he was NOT home as his parents claim.  That is most likely why the videos disappeared from the casinos, as his dad owns the security business that videos the place.  They lawyered him up so quick and hid him that no one would dare question him again.  They are protecting GVC more than Joran.   Jack b

Jack, where in the quotes you posted is the reference to GVC or did i miss something?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 11, 2008, 07:41:01 PM
dirty hand is this:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks

 

It sort of sounds like IF the singing card is a PERSON that he/she is being held by the Arawaks.  Singing card is that a video with sound?  Palus had two cards up his sleeve.
Looks to me like someone is trying to say what happened, but I believe if it was on video or happened in FRONT of the judges (and may have for all we know) there would be no justice there as too many involved who can ruin each other and their children.
The US needs a more active role in dispensing justice in this case, and under the circumstances, it makes me wonder why we do not have that assurance.   Jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 11, 2008, 07:46:27 PM
5th Suspect and Dirty Hand....LOL

I have seen more than my share of theories, but let's look at them...

Dirty Hand possibilities:
Jan van der Straten
Rudy Croes
Ben Vocking
Paulus van der Sloot
Ronny Bernadina
Karen Jansen
I have even seen the SG mentioned as DH and also Nelson Oduber. 

5th Suspect possibilities:
Freddy Abrambatizs
Steve Croes
Lorenzo van Rijn or Gijn
Koen or Sander Gottenbos
Paulus van der Sloot
Geoffrey van Cromvoit
I have even seen Joran, Jaime and Val mentioned.

So there you have it...just a few of the usual suspects.  So which ones fit???  I wish Caps would weigh in with his thoughts too.


Based on times suspects (not witnesses) were arrested, not counting the two black security guards it would have to be GVC, otherwise it would the three original perps, Joran would fall fifth.  There are two fifth suspects, actually and both seem to fill the bill.  Maybe there are supposed to be two fifth suspects.    Jack b

When was GVC arrested? 

april 2006?
 

Yes, I got messes up earlier.  That would put him fifth and his parents alibied him and no doubt had control over the casino videos, etc.  I believe that is why the videos in the casino are missing and they had the means and opportunity to get these and tamper with them.
Jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 11, 2008, 07:47:50 PM
from:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/05/23/holloway/index.html

Wever's arrest is the 10th made in connection with the Holloway investigation. All others held, including van der Sloot, have been released

If guido was arrested in may then GVC would be 9th

i need some sleep LOL  ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 11, 2008, 07:55:56 PM
arrests:

1.  security guard
2.  security guard
3.  Satish
4.  Deepak
5.  JVDS
6.  Steve Croes
7.  PVDS
8.  Lorenzo??????
9.  GVC
10. Guido

3, 4 and 5: not sure about about who was arrested first or in what order
8:  Not even sure if arrested and when


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 11, 2008, 07:57:13 PM
No way will I ever believe that Paulus was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.  No way no day.  Natalee would not be interrested in him that way.  Not a chance. 

If NH had any dealings with Palus it would be that she would seem him as an older person who befriended her and she trusted him.  In the South most girls seem to trust older people and are nice to them without realizing some older people are extremely dangerous.

GVC would be out and about any and everywhere with his patrol buggies and habits of pidgeonholing girls without them being aware of any danger.  Many of the ISA school kids woud be in school many days of the week and have less chance to encounter during the day.  It is pointing to the LE - security factor in that his father knows what information to destroy, how to alibi and there is VDS and the daughter of Cromvroit who works there.  NH dissed him in his eyes and probably heard she was not loose and maybe even she had not been "around" so to speak.  I think he thought he owned that particular "quail" (in his eyes, quail) and may have used his authority to intervene and finally participate in the "party."  He would be afraid to rave because of his job and may have planted drugs on NH as a rouse to arrest her IF she did not cooperate.  Everywhere I go seems to come back to this young man, Joran, K2, Palus, and Freddy.  Steve Croes was probably involved as a help to means of disposal, etc.  It can go no where else.  We all know, now it is a matter of them doing something about it or our own country doing something about it.  If they do not we need to find out why.    Jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 11, 2008, 08:06:35 PM
arrests:

1.  security guard
2.  security guard
3.  Satish
4.  Deepak
5.  JVDS
6.  Steve Croes
7.  PVDS
8.  Lorenzo??????
9.  GVC
10. Guido

3, 4 and 5: not sure about about who was arrested first or in what order
8:  Not even sure if arrested and when

correction

1.  security guard            june 5 2005
2.  security guard            june 5 2005
3.  Satish                       june 9 2005
4.  Deepak                      june 9 2005?
5.  JVDS                        june 9 2005?
6.  Steve Croes               june 17 2005
7.  PVDS                        june 22  2005   
8.  Lorenzo??????
9.  Freddy                      aug 26 2005
10.  GVC                        april 15 2006
11. Guido                       may     2006


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 11, 2008, 08:34:40 PM
No way will I ever believe that Paulus was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.  No way no day.  Natalee would not be interrested in him that way.  Not a chance. 

If NH had any dealings with Palus it would be that she would seem him as an older person who befriended her and she trusted him.  In the South most girls seem to trust older people and are nice to them without realizing some older people are extremely dangerous.

GVC would be out and about any and everywhere with his patrol buggies and habits of pidgeonholing girls without them being aware of any danger.  Many of the ISA school kids woud be in school many days of the week and have less chance to encounter during the day.  It is pointing to the LE - security factor in that his father knows what information to destroy, how to alibi and there is VDS and the daughter of Cromvroit who works there.  NH dissed him in his eyes and probably heard she was not loose and maybe even she had not been "around" so to speak.  I think he thought he owned that particular "quail" (in his eyes, quail) and may have used his authority to intervene and finally participate in the "party."  He would be afraid to rave because of his job and may have planted drugs on NH as a rouse to arrest her IF she did not cooperate.  Everywhere I go seems to come back to this young man, Joran, K2, Palus, and Freddy.  Steve Croes was probably involved as a help to means of disposal, etc.  It can go no where else.  We all know, now it is a matter of them doing something about it or our own country doing something about it.  If they do not we need to find out why.    Jack b



Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.

The lamb is a scapegoat.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 11, 2008, 08:45:35 PM
Simian said that he makes a living on the island......and he had information on the PVDS interrogations, etc......only referring to him by name after he was relieved and it became apparent that it would get into the media.....so the jealous boyfriend stuff, etc was a way to keep the maze stuff hidden-to preserve babylon.....he actually posted that he knows the babylonians and he shares the concern over wampum

but if a body had been recovered, then there was a cover story, motive, forensics, etc

Shango apparently didn't share this concern


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sirensong on March 12, 2008, 02:45:42 AM
Wow, this thread is  hopping!

According to the  Kalpoes' "Van der Sloot trusts Freddy with his life."  That certainly sounds like what Joran said about "Daury".  I am convinced Freddy has much to do  with this story.   He threw  Joran to the   wolves by telling about what Joran told him on the 30th, and Joran meekly said Freddy must have misunderstood him, or remembered the date wrong.   No anger, no feelings of betrayal.

Also, Shango had said if Natalee  was not found by a particular day, that she would never be found.  I wonder how he knew this, as it looks like he was right.  Then he says "light the fires" in his postings, and I can't help but wonder if her body was incinerated either at the hospital or in a fire on that holiday that occured around that time that they all burn things. 

Just some random thoughts.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 12, 2008, 09:35:20 AM
Wow, this thread is  hopping!

According to the  Kalpoes' "Van der Sloot trusts Freddy with his life."  That certainly sounds like what Joran said about "Daury".  I am convinced Freddy has much to do  with this story.   He threw  Joran to the   wolves by telling about what Joran told him on the 30th, and Joran meekly said Freddy must have misunderstood him, or remembered the date wrong.   No anger, no feelings of betrayal.

Also, Shango had said if Natalee  was not found by a particular day, that she would never be found.  I wonder how he knew this, as it looks like he was right.  Then he says "light the fires" in his postings, and I can't help but wonder if her body was incinerated either at the hospital or in a fire on that holiday that occured around that time that they all burn things. 

Just some random thoughts.


Yes, you are correct!  It looks more everyday that Freddy could be the person that Simian is talking about. Freddy certainly gave more statements than our other "5th" prospects.  There was a good reason for that too...he knew something that ALE either wanted to hide or get to the bottom of at that time.  If you notice even the Kalpoes had a great trust in Freddy...wonder why?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tater on March 12, 2008, 09:45:33 AM
Wow, this thread is  hopping!

According to the  Kalpoes' "Van der Sloot trusts Freddy with his life."  That certainly sounds like what Joran said about "Daury".  I am convinced Freddy has much to do  with this story.   He threw  Joran to the   wolves by telling about what Joran told him on the 30th, and Joran meekly said Freddy must have misunderstood him, or remembered the date wrong.   No anger, no feelings of betrayal.

Also, Shango had said if Natalee  was not found by a particular day, that she would never be found.  I wonder how he knew this, as it looks like he was right.  Then he says "light the fires" in his postings, and I can't help but wonder if her body was incinerated either at the hospital or in a fire on that holiday that occured around that time that they all burn things. 

Just some random thoughts.


Great random thoughts too! I think you are right..She was incinerated or dropped into very deep waters..Freddy seem's to be right up at the front with Polly the perv... :2thinky:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 12, 2008, 03:45:51 PM
from:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/05/23/holloway/index.html

Wever's arrest is the 10th made in connection with the Holloway investigation. All others held, including van der Sloot, have been released

If guido was arrested in may then GVC would be 9th

i need some sleep LOL  ::MonkeyConfused::
 

GVC was arrested 5tn not 9th.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 12, 2008, 03:53:10 PM


But he wasn't arrested until the 22nd or 23rd.

Was Freddy ever arrested?
 

Freddy was not arrested for THIS case but quetioned because he had committed crimes on another minor.  They were supposedly wanting info from him because of his type crimes.   jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 12, 2008, 04:00:31 PM
Remember that when counting suspects the security guards had already been released before Simian made his pronouncement on June 22nd. Therefore you would not count them in the mix. That leaves:

Deepak
Satish
Joran
Steve
And whoever that person was that was arrested right after Steve Croes.

 There is a person, we just do not know who it was.  Mum thinks it was Freddy, I think it was Lorenzo.  Why? Because we find evidence that these two were questioned somewhere along this time line and before Paulus was arrested on the 22 or 23rd.  Some have said Lorenzo was questioned on the 16th...that is after the guards were released and before Paulus was arrested and if true...right before Simian began posting...Freddy also fits in this same scenario too...much more  indication that he was questioned as a possible suspect before Lorenzo.  The rumor on the blogs and on Aruba, as relayed by various posters there, was it was Lorenzo....but I have nothing to prove that as of yet.  I welcome evidence to the contrary....I would like to eliminate one or both of these two if I could.

The first time paulus was brought in for a 4 hour interrogation was on saturday june 18th (he was running from reporters when leaving the police station)

(http://i31.tinypic.com/2s78fw2.jpg)
 

Steve Croes was not arrested as a suspect in the murder and kidnapping more on the line of what we would call material witness.  He told a lie about the HI dropping off and they arrested him to get info, not as a suspect.   jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 12, 2008, 04:48:07 PM
arrests:

1.  security guard 2.  security guard
3.  Satish
4.  Deepak
5.  JVDS
6.  Steve Croes
7.  PVDS
8.  Lorenzo??????
9.  GVC
10. Guido

3, 4 and 5: not sure about about who was arrested first or in what order
8:  Not even sure if arrested and when

correction

1.  security guard            june 5 2005
2.  security guard            june 5 2005
3.  Satish                       june 9 2005
4.  Deepak                      june 9 2005?
5.  JVDS                        june 9 2005?
6.  Steve Croes               june 17 2005
7.  PVDS                        june 22  2005   
8.  Lorenzo??????
9.  Freddy                      aug 26 2005
10.  GVC                        april 15 2006
11. Guido                       may     2006
 

satish
depak
jvds
pvds
GVC
Guido

Seem to be all (besides the security guards) who were arrested for the kidnapping, murder, battery, etc. of NH.  Counting the SGuards it would fall back on Joran, not counting them would fall on GVC.  There are two 5th suspects and both are equally guilty most likely.  PVS may have had GVC to get rid of her because she would sing (talk) and VDS was helping cover this up.  Some, if not all of the others most likely took part in other crimes against NH,  including filming, not helping her while she was being abused or whatever.   Jack blue



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 12, 2008, 06:06:41 PM


But he wasn't arrested until the 22nd or 23rd.

Was Freddy ever arrested?
 

Freddy was not arrested for THIS case but quetioned because he had committed crimes on another minor.  They were supposedly wanting info from him because of his type crimes.   jack b


I understand that...but someone was arrested right after Steve Croes...within 12 hours of each other...that is what needs to be determined...who was that person?  Find that out and you have Simian's 5th suspect.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 12, 2008, 06:09:55 PM


But he wasn't arrested until the 22nd or 23rd.

Was Freddy ever arrested?
 

Freddy was not arrested for THIS case but quetioned because he had committed crimes on another minor.  They were supposedly wanting info from him because of his type crimes.   jack b




Let me try this again...hey Red...I need my own edit button...yes...I do! LOL Sorry for messing that quote up...Gosh!!

I understand that...but someone was arrested right after Steve Croes...within 12 hours of each other...that is what needs to be determined...who was that person?  Find that out and you have Simian's 5th suspect.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on March 12, 2008, 07:44:01 PM
I have a question for all those who have worked so hard to decipher the Simian posts.  If we feel pretty confident the Simian's info came from ALE should we trust anything he/she posted that wasn't verified by the press releases?  I mean, I never felt like ALE was very upfront about anything.  Would it make sense for someone connected to ALE to give out this kind of info when everyone knew about the blogs and ALE could read them as well?

I'm just asking because at one point this thing about the fifth suspect would seem to be about whoever ALE wanted to be guilty, but could never prove it.  After that they went on to arrest many others that were never held for very long.  If ALE was seriously trying to prove that the "5th" suspect was guilty they didn't seem to be doing much to keep him locked up.

Sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone, but this thought has been nagging at me for a while now.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 12, 2008, 08:37:49 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:26 pm
Simian, his lordship did not bring the expected key
the door never existed
Eden is distant

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:33 pm
Simian, His Lordship did not bring the key found in the car, it did not exist
The arawaks can’t open the door
Hope lies with the cowbous,
but the posse was too late
Eden is still distant

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks
The way is clouded for the sacrifice
Rules have changed, so has the maze
the way is lost for the pioneers who went to live among the indians
The flames are growing
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police;
to spare the teepees
Singing cards have lost their power
Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand
His lordship will bestow the title soon….
They will save the teepees and the palace,
but first
The Sacrifice

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:43 pm
Meetings with his lordship will reveal several mysteries
the sacrifice also knows the fires have been lit

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist.
doors to eden remain closed.
The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty.
Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.
If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons.
DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon.
Better to prepare the sacrifice quickly so the cowboys go home
….without the loot

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:34 pm
the struggle between the babylonians and the arawaks still remains hidden
the arawaks awaited the key
his lordship said no
the door to eden remains closed
they are preparing the fire

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:56 pm
The Simian knows his Lordship did not have a key to open the door to eden
the answer lies with the Arawak Nation


Any ideas on who 'his Lordship' is?

Oduber
Rudy Croes
The Govenor General



http://scaredmonkeys.com/index.php?s=posner+video

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 12, 2008, 08:39:21 PM
His lordship is there to preserve babylon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--dpn34WoxA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 12, 2008, 08:55:53 PM
"Kristen"
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0312084kristen1.html



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on March 12, 2008, 08:59:22 PM
His lordship is there to preserve babylon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--dpn34WoxA


Not buying it, Columbo.  His Lordship ain't no Joe Pesci type.  His Lordship does not get his own hands dirty.  He let's Dirty Hand do that.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 12, 2008, 09:06:55 PM
I have a question for all those who have worked so hard to decipher the Simian posts.  If we feel pretty confident the Simian's info came from ALE should we trust anything he/she posted that wasn't verified by the press releases?  I mean, I never felt like ALE was very upfront about anything.  Would it make sense for someone connected to ALE to give out this kind of info when everyone knew about the blogs and ALE could read them as well?

I'm just asking because at one point this thing about the fifth suspect would seem to be about whoever ALE wanted to be guilty, but could never prove it.  After that they went on to arrest many others that were never held for very long.  If ALE was seriously trying to prove that the "5th" suspect was guilty they didn't seem to be doing much to keep him locked up.

Sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone, but this thought has been nagging at me for a while now.


Very good point! I don't think anyone trusts what Simian/Merian/Shango/Shock/Checkme or any of the others say completely.  In fact, we should look at a lot of others posts that were made in those first few weeks.  There are some posters that had some pretty good info but didn't have the cool names or spoke in cryptic riddles. 

One reason I would like to know who the 5th suspect actually is would be to deteremine what real worth Simian's posts are...they could all be a bunch of nothing.  If you trust what Checkme said (another Aruban poster) Simian knew nothing of importance.  One thing I would point out, Simian made every effort to distance Joran from the crime.  He only comes close to saying anything negative when he poses as Merian and even then if you read it over and over you can see Merian seemed to change attitudes as if there was a doppleganger Merian also.  So it's mainly what ever you want to think...or speculate...but you are correct...Simian did not implicate Joran...and neither does Shango.  That is why another person comes into play here...not just the 3 perps...there is more involvement...either from someone we can't discover....or...Paulus is just as...if not more...guilty than Joran of what happened to Natalee.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 12, 2008, 09:08:18 PM
His lordship is there to preserve babylon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--dpn34WoxA


Not buying it, Columbo.  His Lordship ain't no Joe Pesci type.  His Lordship does not get his own hands dirty.  He let's Dirty Hand do that.

more like the type in the post before pesci?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 12, 2008, 09:10:18 PM
I have a question for all those who have worked so hard to decipher the Simian posts.  If we feel pretty confident the Simian's info came from ALE should we trust anything he/she posted that wasn't verified by the press releases?  I mean, I never felt like ALE was very upfront about anything.  Would it make sense for someone connected to ALE to give out this kind of info when everyone knew about the blogs and ALE could read them as well?

I'm just asking because at one point this thing about the fifth suspect would seem to be about whoever ALE wanted to be guilty, but could never prove it.  After that they went on to arrest many others that were never held for very long.  If ALE was seriously trying to prove that the "5th" suspect was guilty they didn't seem to be doing much to keep him locked up.

Sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone, but this thought has been nagging at me for a while now.


Very good point! I don't think anyone trusts what Simian/Merian/Shango/Shock/Checkme or any of the others say completely.  In fact, we should look at a lot of others posts that were made in those first few weeks.  There are some posters that had some pretty good info but didn't have the cool names or spoke in cryptic riddles. 

One reason I would like to know who the 5th suspect actually is would be to deteremine what real worth Simian's posts are...they could all be a bunch of nothing.  If you trust what Checkme said (another Aruban poster) Simian knew nothing of importance.  One thing I would point out, Simian made every effort to distance Joran from the crime.  He only comes close to saying anything negative when he poses as Merian and even then if you read it over and over you can see Merian seemed to change attitudes as if there was a doppleganger Merian also.  So it's mainly what ever you want to think...or speculate...but you are correct...Simian did not implicate Joran...and neither does Shango.  That is why another person comes into play here...not just the 3 perps...there is more involvement...either from someone we can't discover....or...Paulus is just as...if not more...guilty than Joran of what happened to Natalee.

alot of the singing beetles transcripts had things in the S/S quatrains......5th suspect was in the headlines the following news cycle.....I'm sure others could add to that


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 12, 2008, 09:12:01 PM
TS2:

this is how babylon is preserved:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRK-CQVQevQ


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 12, 2008, 09:13:03 PM
So who is his lordship?  Depends on what you think babylon means...if you think it means gamblers...as Simian said...then it is different answer from what it would be if babylon means the Dutch...so who is it? Anyone want to venture a guess....by offering a name?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 12, 2008, 09:19:19 PM
second article:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/index.php?s=posner+video

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 12, 2008, 09:22:46 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
Windows looking onto Babylon are being opened by the ThreadSurfers

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:36 pm
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew the girl.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on March 12, 2008, 10:51:13 PM
His lordship is there to preserve babylon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--dpn34WoxA


Not buying it, Columbo.  His Lordship ain't no Joe Pesci type.  His Lordship does not get his own hands dirty.  He let's Dirty Hand do that.

more like the type in the post before pesci?

Maybe. 

His Lordship, I believe, is in a government position.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 12, 2008, 11:10:50 PM
I have a question for all those who have worked so hard to decipher the Simian posts.  If we feel pretty confident the Simian's info came from ALE should we trust anything he/she posted that wasn't verified by the press releases?  LOL, we all gotta decide that for ourselves, depending on the circumstances. some verifications may have happened behind the scenes/never reaching the press/media. example: sim's post re an argument between JvdS/K2 ... "you made me lie" etc ... was verified much later when the polis van transcript was released. the post date matched the date of convo. if transcript had never been released we wouldn't have had verification ... therefore the truth of the post would've remained behind the scenes.  I mean, I never felt like ALE was very upfront about anything.  Would it make sense for someone connected to ALE to give out this kind of info when everyone knew about the blogs and ALE could read them as well? perhaps sim was over-confident re being out-ed ... or over-estimated depth of her altitude below the radar

I'm just asking because at one point this thing about the fifth suspect would seem to be about whoever ALE wanted to be guilty, but could never prove it. could also be "whoever ALE knew to be guilty, but could never (or chose not to) prove it." After that they went on to arrest many others that were never held for very long.  If ALE was seriously trying to prove that the "5th" suspect was guilty they didn't seem to be doing much to keep him locked up. I'd bet on fair amount of ALE in-fighting ... surely, not every single officer/top-to-bottom was happy w/ investigation

Sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone, but this thought has been nagging at me for a while now. not to worry, all inquiries welcome here, right Lala's?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 12, 2008, 11:18:29 PM
His lordship is there to preserve babylon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--dpn34WoxA


Not buying it, Columbo.  His Lordship ain't no Joe Pesci type.  His Lordship does not get his own hands dirty.  He let's Dirty Hand do that.

more like the type in the post before pesci?

Maybe. 

His Lordship, I believe, is in a government position.


http://shopping.yahoo.com/p:Lords%20of%20the%20Mafia%3A%20New%20York:1808486013;_ylt=Avk3.rOKMPg.FBoZWPX.n3gbFt0A;_ylu=X3oDMTBic2hxMGNhBGx0AzQEc2VjA3Ny?clink=dmps/lords_of_the_mafia/ctx=mid:3,pid:1808486013,pdid:3,pos:1,spc:14489115,date:20080312,srch:kw,x:,sem:1

http://shopping.yahoo.com/p:Lords%20of%20the%20Mafia%3A%20Sicily:1808486015;_ylt=Aj.lBdrahrNiruHtsJMR9OkbFt0A;_ylu=X3oDMTBic2hxMGNhBGx0AzQEc2VjA3Ny?clink=dmps/lords_of_the_mafia/ctx=mid:3,pid:1808486015,pdid:3,pos:9,spc:14489115,date:20080312,srch:kw,x:,sem:1

http://mafia-lords.com/mafia/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 12, 2008, 11:42:23 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4430010&page=1

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

All along the gamblers knew who he was. (George Fox #9?)

 

Sounds like dirtyhand knew who provided the ride after the Kalpoes left.  They know, they just will not make a case against the guilty.  They have known since the first few days she was dead and what happened for the most part, but will not make a case.  The US needs to make a case for them.   Jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 12, 2008, 11:49:54 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4430010&page=1

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

All along the gamblers knew who he was. (George Fox #9?)

 

Sounds like dirtyhand knew who provided the ride after the Kalpoes left.  They know, they just will not make a case against the guilty.  They have known since the first few days she was dead and what happened for the most part, but will not make a case.  The US needs to make a case for them. There was more than one white guy who became escorts after the K2 left.  Escort sounds rather formal.  Police escoort?  Beach Security escort?  I think so.    Jack b 


 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: sirensong on March 13, 2008, 02:50:04 AM
His lordship is there to preserve babylon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--dpn34WoxA


Not buying it, Columbo.  His Lordship ain't no Joe Pesci type.  His Lordship does not get his own hands dirty.  He let's Dirty Hand do that.

more like the type in the post before pesci?

Maybe. 

His Lordship, I believe, is in a government position.


http://shopping.yahoo.com/p:Lords%20of%20the%20Mafia%3A%20New%20York:1808486013;_ylt=Avk3.rOKMPg.FBoZWPX.n3gbFt0A;_ylu=X3oDMTBic2hxMGNhBGx0AzQEc2VjA3Ny?clink=dmps/lords_of_the_mafia/ctx=mid:3,pid:1808486013,pdid:3,pos:1,spc:14489115,date:20080312,srch:kw,x:,sem:1

http://shopping.yahoo.com/p:Lords%20of%20the%20Mafia%3A%20Sicily:1808486015;_ylt=Aj.lBdrahrNiruHtsJMR9OkbFt0A;_ylu=X3oDMTBic2hxMGNhBGx0AzQEc2VjA3Ny?clink=dmps/lords_of_the_mafia/ctx=mid:3,pid:1808486015,pdid:3,pos:9,spc:14489115,date:20080312,srch:kw,x:,sem:1

http://mafia-lords.com/mafia/


Babylon is defined as a city of sin.  So could his lordship be Posner, or his boss?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 13, 2008, 10:17:26 AM
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4430010&page=1

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

All along the gamblers knew who he was. (George Fox #9?)

 

Sounds like dirtyhand knew who provided the ride after the Kalpoes left.  They know, they just will not make a case against the guilty.  They have known since the first few days she was dead and what happened for the most part, but will not make a case.  The US needs to make a case for them.   Jack b

JB:

Interesting notion.....in which scenario is the "escort" not doing its job? When they are providing security for an official who is breaking the law-or when they are standing down?

A sacrifice will be made to spare the polis........


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on March 13, 2008, 11:07:42 AM
I just found this in my notes

Is there any chance van der Stratten is Shango?

Posted by: ustt | Thursday, December 22, 2005 at 12:08 AM

You can't be serious.
My God, the man is a 75 year old grandfather, and believe me, poetry is not his thing. His wife is a wonderful
artist, though, and his daughter-in-law writes children's books.

Posted by: Scubajap | Thursday, December 22, 2005 at 12:13 AM


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 13, 2008, 11:29:45 AM
I just found this in my notes

Is there any chance van der Stratten is Shango?

Posted by: ustt | Thursday, December 22, 2005 at 12:08 AM

You can't be serious.
My God, the man is a 75 year old grandfather, and believe me, poetry is not his thing. His wife is a wonderful
artist, though, and his daughter-in-law writes children's books.

Posted by: Scubajap | Thursday, December 22, 2005 at 12:13 AM


Why would Scubajap not know that van der Straten was an artist also?  She knew about his family...how could she have missed that little detail?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: bleachedblack on March 13, 2008, 12:51:54 PM
So who is his lordship?  Depends on what you think babylon means...if you think it means gamblers...as Simian said...then it is different answer from what it would be if babylon means the Dutch...so who is it? Anyone want to venture a guess....by offering a name?

Well in fitting with my interpretation of what Babylon means i would venture to say his lordship might be Oduber?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 13, 2008, 02:01:47 PM
So we have Posner or Oduber...see why this is so hard to pin down? LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on March 13, 2008, 02:46:09 PM
His Lordship=(possibly, presiding judge) *Sumerians=(Cartel, Mafia) *Babylonians=European (Dutch) influence on Aruba *Arawaks=native Arubans .

Is His Lordship a Dutch official who just arrived in Aruba? ...

http://www.google.com/search


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 13, 2008, 03:12:38 PM
So we have Posner or Oduber...see why this is so hard to pin down? LOL


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:32 pm
The sacrifice is the correct food to appease the gods, arawaks, and cowboys
but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake
even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed (Oduber)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon (polis, LE)
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card (DirtyHand) sing because hand holding it dirty too.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not. (an Arawak)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 13, 2008, 03:14:09 PM
His Lordship=(possibly, presiding judge) *Sumerians=(Cartel, Mafia) *Babylonians=European (Dutch) influence on Aruba *Arawaks=native Arubans .

Is His Lordship a Dutch official who just arrived in Aruba? ...

http://www.google.com/search

re: Sumerian feat......feat is a judicial term.....made DirtyHand disappear (judicial feat-fee'-aht)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 13, 2008, 03:46:32 PM
native Arubans=Indians


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 13, 2008, 04:14:00 PM
His Lordship=(possibly, presiding judge) *Sumerians=(Cartel, Mafia) *Babylonians=European (Dutch) influence on Aruba *Arawaks=native Arubans .

Is His Lordship a Dutch official who just arrived in Aruba? ...

http://www.google.com/search

I think it is the judge that was flown in, and who released PVDS and SGC. This was a new judge. Simian was speculating that it may have something to do with DNA (The Key) being analyzed in holland. Probably the DNA taken from JVDS and Kalpoes on the 21th. or DNA found in a vehicle. The dna outcome was negative so the door to eden remained closed.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:33 pm
Simian, His Lordship did not bring the key found in the car, it did not exist
The arawaks can’t open the door
Hope lies with the cowbous,
but the posse was too late
Eden is still distant

My translation:
Simian the judge did not bring new evidence (DNA from the car?) it was not there
The ALE won't get at the truth
Only hope is equusearch finding the body
They may be too late (Body has been moved?)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!

The judge is there to protect the entire legal system
not PVDS as an individual
Remember dirtyhand

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun

The americans are only allowed so much liberty (They can't search everywhere?)
Arubans need food they had no income for 30 days????
Arubans are witholding witness/ other perpetrator(s)???
JVDS and Kalpoes will do
The judge prevents others being arrested or kept detained (He let PVDS and Croes go)
The DNA or evidence simian talked about(The package from the Hague) was a dud
The refrain(coverup has begun??)

my interpretation is as good as anyone's.

I started reading the posts on this page
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/26/
The whole lordship thing is in many cases a dialogue between shango, simian and the other posters


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 13, 2008, 04:25:06 PM
So who is his lordship?  Depends on what you think babylon means...if you think it means gamblers...as Simian said...then it is different answer from what it would be if babylon means the Dutch...so who is it? Anyone want to venture a guess....by offering a name?


If they have ever been under English rule sometimes the senior judges use the title lord.  Judges in high courts in India use Lordship.  Of course that goes for judges from England.  In pagan religions lorship is given to the higher up dudes.  In special courts such as courts of the Lyons lordship on king of arms.   



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 13, 2008, 04:31:12 PM
So who is his lordship?  Depends on what you think babylon means...if you think it means gamblers...as Simian said...then it is different answer from what it would be if babylon means the Dutch...so who is it? Anyone want to venture a guess....by offering a name?

There is a Baby Beach in Aruba.  Stands to reason there is a place called Babylon.  I think some of the final disposition took place at the south end of that island, after leaving the VDsloots.  The old ISA is down that way, southward, anyway.  jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 13, 2008, 05:03:56 PM
So who is his lordship?  Depends on what you think babylon means...if you think it means gamblers...as Simian said...then it is different answer from what it would be if babylon means the Dutch...so who is it? Anyone want to venture a guess....by offering a name?

There is a Baby Beach in Aruba.  Stands to reason there is a place called Babylon.  I think some of the final disposition took place at the south end of that island, after leaving the VDsloots.  The old ISA is down that way, southward, anyway.  jack b

Please elaborate on the south end scenario...that theory has always grabbed my attention. TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 13, 2008, 06:54:08 PM
So who is his lordship?  Depends on what you think babylon means...if you think it means gamblers...as Simian said...then it is different answer from what it would be if babylon means the Dutch...so who is it? Anyone want to venture a guess....by offering a name?

Well in fitting with my interpretation of what Babylon means i would venture to say his lordship might be Oduber?




Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Simian has an IQ of 149 as measured by Gringos.
All of the words of the cohorts of the boy and the Hindus have been hi-jacked. For weeks already. The confrontation of yesterday was brutal. More lies woven. The boy has to fall apart. The Babylonians have their swords ready
North American special interests have organized a human chain of prayers in Aruba. From the Wyndham to the Holiday Inn. Are afraid for their multi-million dollar investments? The Simian heard from the Gringos say they are doing OK. The bread won’t be taken from them. They will just sit this one out.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 13, 2008, 07:17:34 PM
i think it is important to read all the shango, simian and other interesting post by ShocktheMonkey, checkme, Aenim and some others in relation to the thread they posted on and the events that unfolded that day or the one or two days preceding the date of these posts.

What i mean is for example that the 5th suspect discussion took place around the 21st-22nd of june. So anyone arrested or interrogated after that date can not be the fifth suspect.

the only problem is that there are thousands of posts and as some of you have mentioned posters posted on different threads on the same dates.

to get to a scaredmonkeys.com FP on a specific date use this url:
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/25
change the 25 to go to FP articles on any day in june 2005
(probably known but anyway)

By just looking at shango's post for instance you don't get the whole picture as sometimes he states something he appears to know and at other times replies to simian or another poster.

Funny thing i noticed is that if you look at the times of the posts, shango and simian post at the exact same times a lot (too much to be a coincidence if you ask me) Also sometimes others pop up that seem to understand or to clarify what they are saying and after 2 or 3 posts never post again.

Some people brought forward the theory that Shango and Simian posted in riddles for fear of being discovered. These riddles have the exact opposite effect. They generate attention. IP's can be traced so why bother with the riddles? and why keep it up over a period of of give or take 10 days?

I think that to find meaning in these posts, assuming there is any we have to look at the events of the day the posts were made.

To make a long post even longer here is one i noticed by Rastafai Rabbi on June 27th, 2005 12:12 am
pretty knowlegeable for a one time poster



1. The Babylonians are the Dutch, the white man. The Arawaks are the Arubans. The black man. They cannot stand being ruled by the Dutch white man. They were hoping conviction of the father would bring the Dutch ruling house of cards to come tumbling down.

the struggle between the babylonians and the arawaks still remains hidden

the arawaks awaited the key

his lordship said no

the door to eden remains closed

they are preparing the fire


2. The new judge came in and released father Sloot in order to keep Dutch control over Aruba. If a white dutch judge is convicted of a crime there all hell will break loose in the Hague.



His lordship is there to preserve babylon

not the elder

remember dirtyhand!


3. Past tense for the Indian brothers and past tense for the Arubans who had been in contact with her at any time. Present tense for the Dutch who are holding her captive and alive (at this or some other time).



The shivas knew the girl

the arawaks new the girl

and the babylonians still know the girl



4. Dirty hand is not an Aruban but has been there from day one. Not like the Sloots.


DirtyHand is not an Arawak

Many pioneers have settled with the tribe


5. Released the Father today which would have set the domino effect of the outser of foreign invaders from Aruba. The Americans sense all of this but cannot figure it out yet.

The card of babylon was already played

if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation

the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made

Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles

cowboys hear the singing, but the words are not understood

The gods and the babylonians are worried about the cowboys response

6. Local kids play with the younger Sloot children. Where are the younger children today. That or brothels where locals partake in the forbiden European pleasures.



Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon?

DirtyHand knows, this is his Power

there will be 46 sacrifices


7. Either the brother or the Sloot house. Where dirty hand watched or filmed.


You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon

the girl knew this

Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.

But not to satiate desire



8. If they don’t find her tomorrow they never will. Oddly enough one of the rescuers said the same thing. Tomorrow or within 3 days based in there search site info



If the door to eden is to be opened with that key, it will be tomorrow

or forever remained closed



9. and who is dirty hand. the sloots gardner houseboy cook who hears and sees eveyrthing in that house


DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 13, 2008, 07:23:23 PM
So who is his lordship?  Depends on what you think babylon means...if you think it means gamblers...as Simian said...then it is different answer from what it would be if babylon means the Dutch...so who is it? Anyone want to venture a guess....by offering a name?

Well in fitting with my interpretation of what Babylon means i would venture to say his lordship might be Oduber?




Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Simian has an IQ of 149 as measured by Gringos.
All of the words of the cohorts of the boy and the Hindus have been hi-jacked. For weeks already. The confrontation of yesterday was brutal. More lies woven. The boy has to fall apart. The Babylonians have their swords ready
North American special interests have organized a human chain of prayers in Aruba. From the Wyndham to the Holiday Inn. Are afraid for their multi-million dollar investments? The Simian heard from the Gringos say they are doing OK. The bread won’t be taken from them. They will just sit this one out.


Columbo what was the date of that simian post?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 13, 2008, 07:58:47 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
Who knows what song the elder will sing (or should we say fallen judge)

[which song..........]
 

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl
the arawaks new the girl
and the babylonians still know the girl


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 13, 2008, 08:00:16 PM
You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon

the girl knew this

Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.

But not to satiate desire

[the reason.....]

DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 13, 2008, 08:12:54 PM
1)    dirty hand:
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles

from pg 4:    Both pimps and prostitutes generally referred to their activities as “the game.”
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf


2) DirtyHand
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians
and the arawak nation
meet
, under cover of delusion.

Shango Says:June 27th, 2005 at 4:00 am
Babalu knew who dirty hand was-polis
A sacrifice will be made to spare the polis
DirtyHand is the link (to pimps & arawak nation-LE, polis, gov't....remember dirty hand)
DirtyHand is the key
His reach is long (yeah, the long arm!)
He holds the real key!   (to eden-the poison house)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left


3) Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak
Many pioneers have settled with the tribe

but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake
even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
If the Alibi is broken by DirtyHand the walls of Babylon will shake

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open?
Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths.  (looks like they have!)



Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:11 am
All the Arawaks know the Maze which plays the poison songs

Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid Arawak King who wishes to blame the babylonians for the behaviour of lowly minions.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 13, 2008, 08:15:05 PM
DirtyHand=lowly minion......with access


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 13, 2008, 08:44:26 PM
Shango's story=loesge's post


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 13, 2008, 08:50:07 PM
arawaks and babylonians often fight........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSfBrw1Sxy0


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on March 13, 2008, 09:45:49 PM
DirtyHand=lowly minion......with access

PVDS?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 13, 2008, 10:07:34 PM
DirtyHand=lowly minion......with access

PVDS?


Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not. (Arawak)

The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

The Lamb and the elder are not the keystone in the Arch of Corruption.

Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid Arawak King who wishes to blame the babylonians for the behaviour of lowly minions.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on March 14, 2008, 01:20:37 AM
So we have Posner or Oduber...see why this is so hard to pin down? LOL

There is more that one dirty hand.

CAPS mentioned this. The different spellings of DH/dh seems to indicate this also.

His Lordship is not Oduber. He is the Prime Minister. He is there to preserve Aruba.

His Excellency Governor Refunjol is there to preserve Holland. He is the Head of State. No one higher unless we want to drag the Queen into it.

If we go Rasta - Babylon is the oppression of the Dutch laws, legal system, police, etc.. It is a foreign government forced upon the Arawak peoples from ages ago.

His Lordship Refunjol is there to preserve Babylon.

CAPS, do you own cats?


Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 14, 2008, 02:24:04 AM
The dna outcome was negative so the door to eden remained closed.

negative for real ...
or manipulated/hidden to appear so?

The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
Arubans need food, they had no income for 30 days????

not sure that food/income was deficient ...
but perhaps casino skimming/money laundering
had to be scaled back, at least for awhile?

my interpretation is as good as anyone's. yepper  :cool:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 14, 2008, 02:40:12 AM
There is more than one dirty hand. yes

CAPS mentioned this. The different spellings of DH/dh seems to indicate this also.
yes. shango was too meticulous/too literate
for dh/DH/d h/D H to be insignificant

His Lordship is not Oduber. He is the Prime Minister. He is there to preserve Aruba. yes

His Excellency Governor Refunjol is there to preserve Holland. He is the Head of State. yes
No one higher unless we want to drag the Queen into it. please, no

If we go Rasta - Babylon is the oppression of the Dutch laws, legal system, police, etc.. It is a foreign government forced upon the Arawak peoples from ages ago. the rasta thingy has validity, IMO.
babylon = many facets ... not _ _ _ or _ _ _ but the totality of it

His Lordship Refunjol is there to preserve Babylon. yes


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 14, 2008, 04:46:01 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
Who knows what song the elder will sing (or should we say fallen judge)

[which song..........]
 

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl
the arawaks new the girl
and the babylonians still know the girl

I think by the song he means the statements that PVDS was going to make
He waived his right not to testify or implicate his own son
if PVDS lies he sings a poisoned song


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 14, 2008, 07:51:16 AM
I found this on

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1115.msg151856#msg151856

Date: 21 June 2005 / 11:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Giovanni Heyliger
Description: witness statement by a Racquet Club employee
Name: Steve Croes

Date: 21 June 2005 / 13:00
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiato: Shaniro Kelly / Clyde Burke
Description: interrogation of a suspect
Responsive to Request 41
Name: Jorge Porras Sanches

Was Croes ever employed by the racquet club? Or are the names mixed up
If not Jorge could be the 5th suspect. The date matches simians comments and might explain this one

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:50 pm
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.

The Racquet club being on the other side of the pond

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 14, 2008, 07:53:00 AM
i know jorge has been discussed before but i only saw his name as witness not a suspect


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 14, 2008, 08:03:32 AM
found a link that places Jorge Sanchez at the holiday inn

http://flyertalk.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-450388.html

It has some reviews of the HI one person posted

"Things to do: They have a great tennis pro (Jorge Sanchez)."


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 14, 2008, 08:40:17 AM
found a link that places Jorge Sanchez at the holiday inn

http://flyertalk.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-450388.html

It has some reviews of the HI one person posted

"Things to do: They have a great tennis pro (Jorge Sanchez)."

Great find JE...I am trying to put all the posts together we have on Sanches/Sanchez...give me a few...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 14, 2008, 08:57:42 AM
OOOPS i made a mistake it should read

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 21 June 2005 / 13:00
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiato: Shaniro Kelly / Clyde Burke
Description: interrogation of a suspect

Responsive to Request 41

Name: Jorge Porras Sanches
Date: 21 June 2005 / 14:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Juan Boezem / Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement

Srry all got the lines mixed up ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 14, 2008, 09:23:38 AM
OOOPS i made a mistake it should read

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 21 June 2005 / 13:00
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiato: Shaniro Kelly / Clyde Burke
Description: interrogation of a suspect

Responsive to Request 41

Name: Jorge Porras Sanches
Date: 21 June 2005 / 14:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Juan Boezem / Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement

Srry all got the lines mixed up ::MonkeyNoNo::


LOL....now I have a nice file on Sanches/Sanchez!!!  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 14, 2008, 09:48:24 AM
 :2redface: Sorry MUM


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 14, 2008, 10:33:42 AM
The person that was arrested/detained right after Steve Croes is your 5th suspect.  Whoever that was...Simian's hints are right in line with this...as so many have said, when reading in context it is easy to see...once again...I will say it...we only have to deteremine who that person was that was arrested the same day as Steve Croes to know who the 5th suspect was.  It was right before they took Paulus in...there were more rumors about another person that day than day on the FP.  Those in Aruba were hearing things that we did not know about at the time.

Also, yes there are many dirty hands in this mess.  I have come to believe that the dirty hand reference is about several persons that are in on the corruption and cover up and each and every time Shango mentions them he could easily be talking about a different person. 


Question for thought.....Who are the messengers?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 14, 2008, 10:37:05 AM
OOOPS i made a mistake it should read

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 21 June 2005 / 13:00
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiato: Shaniro Kelly / Clyde Burke
Description: interrogation of a suspect

Responsive to Request 41

Name: Jorge Porras Sanches
Date: 21 June 2005 / 14:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Juan Boezem / Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement

Srry all got the lines mixed up ::MonkeyNoNo::


LOL....now I have a nice file on Sanches/Sanchez!!!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Knowing how many people were questioned that had something to do with tennis leads one to believe there is a lot of smoke concerning if or when Joran was at the racquet club and did he have a tennis lesson that day or was it all a ruse?  ALE was trying to fit the pieces together...they were just short a few of the vital pieces at the time. 

another question for thought...Why did ALE spend so much time questioning the people at the racquet club?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 14, 2008, 12:14:09 PM
Simian tells us that the babylonians are the gamblers...don't believe me?  Read on....





#  Lucy on June 26th, 2005 9:14 pm

Anne
On Friday, Checkme said that they had nothing against the Paul. Earlier, Simian said that the son’s problem was his attitude and predicted that the father was going to be brought in. I gather whenever he mentioned Noor, he was refering to the VDS’s.

You just have to be patient and keep tuned in.

Now Shango, he is really something. If his postings were not so repetitive, I’d give it a try at deciphering, but he repeats too much.

I think his Lordship is the PM, the Babylons are exiles, whatever that means. The Lebanese Aruba are also mentioned (Sumarians). The shivas are the Kalpoe’s. I think the fort is Texas or the USA. Paul’s cards up the sleeve are the securitu guards theory plus Steve Croes. The thing is that Shango goes over and over, and indifferent lines calls the same people different names, for instance, the Kalpoes. So his doble talk is not precise, making it non enticing to decipher.



# Yolande on June 26th, 2005 9:16 pm

The more I read here the more I think Americans ….. could think better at times.
# san on June 26th, 2005 9:18 pm

The guy on Fox News said that he believe the body is not far from where Natalee was last seen. Know one knows where in fact she was last seen. Three options come to mind are: 1. VDS home. 2. Marriott beach. 3 Light house.



# Shango on June 26th, 2005 9:19 pm

DirtyHand is not an Arawak

The singing card can not be played

The cowboys would circle the wagons

The arawaks are preparing the sacrifice

light the fires

the gods are talking



# Shango on June 26th, 2005 9:21 pm

The sacrificial offering will not be scapegoat



# Babalú on June 26th, 2005 9:25 pm

Shangoooooooo


# Babalú on June 26th, 2005 9:26 pm

The kidnapper is not Aruban

Van Rijn can not be pressured

The FBI would close in on the whole operation

The Arubans are prepared to give somebody as a token culprit

They will not sacrifice Paul



# Lily on June 26th, 2005 9:26 pm

There is some really intreasting information on this blog about PVDS http://www.hasibokos.com/hbknews/default.asp?view=day&blogDate=6/11/2005



# Simian on June 26th, 2005 9:27 pm

The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ’cause the bird would fly away.

The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.



# Babalú on June 26th, 2005 9:27 pm

Correction

They will not sacrifice Steve Croes



# Compananzi on June 26th, 2005 9:27 pm

FYI, there appears a lot of concern for the release of Paulus, a previous comment of Jug Twit to have Anita arrested barely raised an eyebrow. MB student claim that the MSM always seem to take their statement out of context. Okay so now we have a situation where Paulus was brought in to clarify previous statement. Perhaps the Police saw the full unedited version of the taped interview? See where I am heading? Paulus could have elaborated on something but the taped version never came out or what ever you know? Well that or the Police is doing a tactical release of the suspect. There I was able to appease both camps.



# Shango on June 26th, 2005 9:30 pm

Who knows what song the elder will sing


# sarizona on June 26th, 2005 9:30 pm

i thought the last judge was supposed to be impartial

why did they again change judges for papa vs?

today’s judge was new

why?

cover up



# Shango on June 26th, 2005 9:31 pm

The shivas knew the girl

the arawaks new the girl

and the babylonians still know the girl



# Babalú on June 26th, 2005 9:31 pm

Shango

Do the Sumerians own the kaseenos??????



#  Shango on June 26th, 2005 9:32 pm

His lordship is there to preserve babylon

not the elder

remember dirtyhand!


# Babalú on June 26th, 2005 9:33 pm

Shango

Clarify this. Joran is supposed to be a Babylonian. Are there more Babylonians other than him????


# Shango on June 26th, 2005 9:34 pm

the struggle between the babylonians and the arawaks still remains hidden

the arawaks awaited the key

his lordship said no

the door to eden remains closed

they are preparing the fire


# Babalú on June 26th, 2005 9:34 pm

Is Dirty Hand from Savaneta???


# Shango on June 26th, 2005 9:35 pm

DirtyHand is not an Arawak

Many pioneers have settled with the tribe


# Babalú on June 26th, 2005 9:35 pm

Ok, they are preparing the sacrificial fire, but will they sacrifice a Babylonian????



# new girl on June 26th, 2005 9:35 pm

What do you folks think about all of the gambling references from Shango?

All of his clues involve “playing” a hand or a card…And the terrible secret is a “Dirty Hand.” And the consistent references to whether or not the cowboys will leave with the loot.


# Simian on June 26th, 2005 9:36 pm

All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.



# JayFreddy on June 26th, 2005 9:36 pm

S-H-ANGEEOH
S-H-ANGEEOH
S-H-ANGEEOH

And SHANGO was his name-oh!


# Babalú on June 26th, 2005 9:37 pm

Why would an elder Babylonian let a younger Babylonian be sacrified. Once again, do the Sumerians own the kaseenos?


# Babalú on June 26th, 2005 9:40 pm

IS Dirty Hand a Macambo???



# new girl on June 26th, 2005 9:40 pm

The “kaseenos” must be the the important link. I wonder how JVDS had so much cash (and why the elder had so much cash) to blow on drinking and gambling when supposedly this family was regular middle class. Follow the money.


# Babalú on June 26th, 2005 9:41 pm

Shango

So, the night before the disappearance, Joran was with the same gamblers too.


# Shango on June 26th, 2005 9:43 pm

Did the babylonians like to make movies?

From the tears, a new river will spring forth…..



# Anne on June 26th, 2005 9:43 pm

Lucy:
Thanks. It’s not a matter of being patient as much as I was puzzled how it was okay to arrest a man just to make his son talk and then let him go. Does arrest not harm reputations in Dutch law as it does in US? Again, thanks. I have been lurking for awhile now :)

Simian:

Never said you posed. You have predicted too much not to be much closer to the situation than anyone else. Just thought maybe you were going with the word on the street or speculating.

Also: the Babylonians know the girl. Current tense. Last night I was certain you were speaking epilogue, not ongoing story.


# Babalú on June 26th, 2005 9:44 pm

New Girl

You don’t have to have a lot of cash to stay all night at the kaseenos. A few chips on the roulette will keep you eating and drinking for free all night long.

Simian
So, she played the casinos 3 nights and supposedly took $10,000 out of her credit card, and left $5,000 in her purse. So obviously she was gambling. But why would the gamblers harm her.


# edie on June 26th, 2005 9:47 pm

What keeps confusing me is what will be the sacrifice.



# Babalú on June 26th, 2005 9:47 pm

Shango

I read something about ganbanging a 14 yr. old tourist and filming it. But this was not attributed to the duo of Babylonians, but to another group of kids, including Van Rijn, Aredszetc.


# Simian on June 26th, 2005 9:48 pm

The boy told the Hindus that he didn’t need their help anymore. This was in the small hours. The confrontation was brutal.

So who heeded his call? Who switched places?

People…the bloodied, swollen tongue. The boy’s fear runs deep. They accuse him to be Bifrons.


# Shango on June 26th, 2005 9:48 pm

The card of babylon was already played

if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation

the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made

Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles

cowboys hear the singing, but the words are not understood

The gods and the babylonians are worried about the cowboys response


# edie on June 26th, 2005 9:50 pm

Bifrons- evil or the devil… right?


# new girl on June 26th, 2005 9:51 pm

Bifrons = demon /monster


# Shango on June 26th, 2005 9:51 pm

The 46th spirit does not walk the same circle as the elders, this shall be his downfall


# Babalú on June 26th, 2005 9:52 pm

Simian

Demoniacal???


# new girl on June 26th, 2005 9:52 pm

Who are the gods?


# edie on June 26th, 2005 9:52 pm

the 46th spirit was bifrons


# Simian on June 26th, 2005 9:53 pm

The Simain thinks that Babalà º is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.

The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew he girl.


# Shango on June 26th, 2005 9:53 pm

The Tribe knows all of the players, even the elders of the inner circle


# sarizona on June 26th, 2005 9:53 pm

croes out tomottow @ 1

papa out already

why the time difference???


# new girl on June 26th, 2005 9:53 pm

Bifrons = He changeth Dead Bodies, and putteth them in another place; also he lighteth seeming Candles upon the Graves of the Dead.

: (
# Babalú on June 26th, 2005 9:54 pm

Shango and Simian

So he said goodbye to the Kalpoes and called some school friens that are Babylonians and were at the kaseeno the night before, and the other three nights gambling with Natalee.

So, the kid is a sociopath???


# Shango on June 26th, 2005 9:55 pm

DirtyHand walks with the elders

Babylon knows


# edie on June 26th, 2005 9:56 pm

conspiracy


# T K on June 26th, 2005 9:56 pm

how about he Joran left her on the beach alone, and some other gamblers from the casino who knew her did something to her?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 14, 2008, 04:23:24 PM
All the gamblers knew was written down

she spent her nights at their tables

why did the girl owe money

windows overlooking babylon are being opened:
http://scaredmonkeys.com/index.php?s=Paulus+Van+der+Sloot+and+the+Man+at+the+Excelsior

his lordship is there to preserve babylon, not the elder




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 14, 2008, 05:51:59 PM
if this is the real simian it would be pretty clear who the babylonians are
anybody know if this is a genuine post?

Simian on June 30th, 2005 12:24 pm

If the Picaros took the girl then why haven’t they radioed in? They have an agenda and they always prove their point.

The Babylonians still have the boy and the Hindus pinched. The Hindus and the boy met again yesterday. The boy fell apart. Another patch is woven. There are no Picaros here, only a boy. So do the Babylonians think.

A slap in the face did the Babylonians receive yesterday from the ones who own the block and the hammer. The boy can recieve the elder. Ha! Their words will be committed to magnet.

The elder is not a capo in the Palace. The palace servants all think he is a failure, but he sure knows his way around. He did break one gate already.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 14, 2008, 06:23:01 PM
if this is the real simian it would be pretty clear who the babylonians are
anybody know if this is a genuine post?

Simian on June 30th, 2005 12:24 pm

If the Picaros took the girl then why haven’t they radioed in? They have an agenda and they always prove their point.

The Babylonians still have the boy and the Hindus pinched. The Hindus and the boy met again yesterday. The boy fell apart. Another patch is woven. There are no Picaros here, only a boy. So do the Babylonians think.

A slap in the face did the Babylonians receive yesterday from the ones who own the block and the hammer. The boy can recieve the elder. Ha! Their words will be committed to magnet.

The elder is not a capo in the Palace. The palace servants all think he is a failure, but he sure knows his way around. He did break one gate already.






Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 14, 2008, 06:29:11 PM
There is more than one dirty hand. yes

CAPS mentioned this. The different spellings of DH/dh seems to indicate this also.
yes. shango was too meticulous/too literate
for dh/DH/d h/D H to be insignificant

His Lordship is not Oduber. He is the Prime Minister. He is there to preserve Aruba. yes

His Excellency Governor Refunjol is there to preserve Holland. He is the Head of State. yes
No one higher unless we want to drag the Queen into it. please, no

If we go Rasta - Babylon is the oppression of the Dutch laws, legal system, police, etc.. It is a foreign government forced upon the Arawak peoples from ages ago. the rasta thingy has validity, IMO.
babylon = many facets ... not _ _ _ or _ _ _ but the totality of it

His Lordship Refunjol is there to preserve Babylon. yes
 

The judges are refered to as lordships in many places.  Probably there too.  The head of the justice department is Oduber and he hobnobs with the queen.  He fits the bill as well.  jackb



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 14, 2008, 06:32:15 PM
The person that was arrested/detained right after Steve Croes is your 5th suspect.  Whoever that was...Simian's hints are right in line with this...as so many have said, when reading in context it is easy to see...once again...I will say it...we only have to deteremine who that person was that was arrested the same day as Steve Croes to know who the 5th suspect was.  It was right before they took Paulus in...there were more rumors about another person that day than day on the FP.  Those in Aruba were hearing things that we did not know about at the time.

Also, yes there are many dirty hands in this mess.  I have come to believe that the dirty hand reference is about several persons that are in on the corruption and cover up and each and every time Shango mentions them he could easily be talking about a different person. 


Question for thought.....Who are the messengers?


  AB or Adin Bikker?  seems he was just asked something or other and released.  j/b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 14, 2008, 06:54:33 PM
There is more than one dirty hand. yes

CAPS mentioned this. The different spellings of DH/dh seems to indicate this also.
yes. shango was too meticulous/too literate
for dh/DH/d h/D H to be insignificant

His Lordship is not Oduber. He is the Prime Minister. He is there to preserve Aruba. yes

His Excellency Governor Refunjol is there to preserve Holland. He is the Head of State. yes
No one higher unless we want to drag the Queen into it. please, no

If we go Rasta - Babylon is the oppression of the Dutch laws, legal system, police, etc.. It is a foreign government forced upon the Arawak peoples from ages ago. the rasta thingy has validity, IMO.
babylon = many facets ... not _ _ _ or _ _ _ but the totality of it

His Lordship Refunjol is there to preserve Babylon. yes
 

The judges are refered to as lordships in many places.  Probably there too.  The head of the justice department is Oduber and he hobnobs with the queen.  He fits the bill as well.  jackb



Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damage he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away.
The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:36 pm
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew the girl.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand! (comps!)

who threw PVDS under the bus?
http://scaredmonkeys.com/index.php?s=posner+video




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 14, 2008, 07:03:01 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun

There was a meeting on june 28th between Croes, Donner(dutch justice minister) and Pechtold(dutch minister of kingdom relations) in curacao. During this meeting croes asked the dutch ministers for assistance in rectifying the aruban image that was painted in the US media. The bad image was harming arubas tourist industry. (wampum)
This would also tie in nicely to the trio comment in the post

I still think that a judge fits "his lordship" best but....

can't figure out what either Croes or the judge that let PVDS and SGC walk have to do with this one....?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks
The way is clouded for the sacrifice
Rules have changed, so has the maze
the way is lost for the pioneers who went to live among the indians
The flames are growing
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police;
to spare the teepees
Singing cards have lost their power
Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand
His lordship will bestow the title soon….
They will save the teepees and the palace,
but first
The Sacrifice


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 14, 2008, 07:04:28 PM
 
The person that was arrested/detained right after Steve Croes is your 5th suspect.  Whoever that was...Simian's hints are right in line with this...as so many have said, when reading in context it is easy to see...once again...I will say it...we only have to deteremine who that person was that was arrested the same day as Steve Croes to know who the 5th suspect was.  It was right before they took Paulus in...there were more rumors about another person that day than day on the FP.  Those in Aruba were hearing things that we did not know about at the time.

Also, yes there are many dirty hands in this mess.  I have come to believe that the dirty hand reference is about several persons that are in on the corruption and cover up and each and every time Shango mentions them he could easily be talking about a different person. 


Question for thought.....Who are the messengers?


  AB or Adin Bikker?  seems he was just asked something or other and released.  j/b
 

Also this may help:  On Friday, June 17, a fourth person, later identified as disc jockey Steve Gregory Croes was also arrested. Police Commissioner Jan van der Straten, who briefly headed the investigation before his retirement, told the media that "Croes was detained based on information from one of the other three detainees".[38] On June 22 Aruban police detained Van der Sloot's father, Paulus van der Sloot (an attorney who had been part of the judge in training program, but who had left it prior to the Holloway incident), for questioning, and arrested him the same day. He was released on June 26 after agreeing to waive his right not to testify against his son. Croes was released on June 27. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 14, 2008, 07:11:48 PM
I have a question for all those who have worked so hard to decipher the Simian posts.  If we feel pretty confident the Simian's info came from ALE should we trust anything he/she posted that wasn't verified by the press releases?  I mean, I never felt like ALE was very upfront about anything.  Would it make sense for someone connected to ALE to give out this kind of info when everyone knew about the blogs and ALE could read them as well?

I'm just asking because at one point this thing about the fifth suspect would seem to be about whoever ALE wanted to be guilty, but could never prove it.  After that they went on to arrest many others that were never held for very long.  If ALE was seriously trying to prove that the "5th" suspect was guilty they didn't seem to be doing much to keep him locked up.

Sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone, but this thought has been nagging at me for a while now.


Very good point! I don't think anyone trusts what Simian/Merian/Shango/Shock/Checkme or any of the others say completely.  In fact, we should look at a lot of others posts that were made in those first few weeks.  There are some posters that had some pretty good info but didn't have the cool names or spoke in cryptic riddles. 

One reason I would like to know who the 5th suspect actually is would be to deteremine what real worth Simian's posts are...they could all be a bunch of nothing.  If you trust what Checkme said (another Aruban poster) Simian knew nothing of importance.  One thing I would point out, Simian made every effort to distance Joran from the crime.  He only comes close to saying anything negative when he poses as Merian and even then if you read it over and over you can see Merian seemed to change attitudes as if there was a doppleganger Merian also.  So it's mainly what ever you want to think...or speculate...but you are correct...Simian did not implicate Joran...and neither does Shango.  That is why another person comes into play here...not just the 3 perps...there is more involvement...either from someone we can't discover....or...Paulus is just as...if not more...guilty than Joran of what happened to Natalee.
   

On Friday, June 17, a fourth person, later identified as disc jockey Steve Gregory Croes was also arrested. Police Commissioner Jan van der Straten, who briefly headed the investigation before his retirement, told the media that "Croes was detained based on information from one of the other three detainees".[38] On June 22 Aruban police detained Van der Sloot's father, Paulus van der Sloot (an attorney who had been part of the judge in training program, but who had left it prior to the Holloway incident), for questioning, and arrested him the same day. He was released on June 26 after agreeing to waive his right not to testify against his son. Croes was released on June 27


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 14, 2008, 07:54:03 PM
the sumerians:

The significance of the cedars of Lebanon to the history of man are traced to the very earliest written records, that of the Sumerians in the third millennium BC

http://www.intelligence.org.il/Eng/bu/hizbullah/pb/app14.htm

Venezuela

Venezuela, and its neighboring island, Aruba, have long had a well established drug trafficking, drug smuggling, and money laundering network, which had been created in the early 70s by the

Cosa Nostra’s Cuntrera-Caruana family. [175]   In the 1990s, the Aruba-based Mansur family, of Lebanese descent, took over the network, adding cigarette smuggling to their operations.  According to U.S. court documents from March 2001,“Much of the proceeds garnered by the Mansur brothers went to Hizballah.” [176]

and

http://www.tobacco.org/articles/country/aruba/

Intro:

[This reprise of a part of the CPI report contains graphics of some of the documents--gb]

The chief purveyors of tobacco through Colombia's "backdoor ports" were two powerful Aruba families by the names of Mansur and Harms.

In August 1994, the United States indicted cousins Eric and Alex Mansur along with 52 others allegedly involved in a massive drug-money laundering enterprise. The investigation, dubbed Operation Golden Trash, targeted an alleged conspiracy that used narco dollars to purchase cigarettes, alcohol and household electronics, which were sold to individuals and businesses in Colombia. The proceeds flowed to cocaine barons.

could the Mansur family have anything to do with the sumerians in the posts?

If too far fetched let me know i can take it LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 14, 2008, 08:00:17 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun

There was a meeting on june 28th between Croes, Donner(dutch justice minister) and Pechtold(dutch minister of kingdom relations) in curacao. During this meeting croes asked the dutch ministers for assistance in rectifying the aruban image that was painted in the US media. The bad image was harming arubas tourist industry. (wampum)
This would also tie in nicely to the trio comment in the post

I still think that a judge fits "his lordship" best but....

can't figure out what either Croes or the judge that let PVDS and SGC walk have to do with this one....?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks
The way is clouded for the sacrifice
Rules have changed, so has the maze
the way is lost for the pioneers who went to live among the indians
The flames are growing
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police;
to spare the teepees
Singing cards have lost their power
Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand
His lordship will bestow the title soon….
They will save the teepees and the palace,
but first
The Sacrifice



The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio  (DirtyHand kept hidden)
The key to edens door did not exist     


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 14, 2008, 08:03:55 PM
the sumerians:

The significance of the cedars of Lebanon to the history of man are traced to the very earliest written records, that of the Sumerians in the third millennium BC

http://www.intelligence.org.il/Eng/bu/hizbullah/pb/app14.htm

Venezuela

Venezuela, and its neighboring island, Aruba, have long had a well established drug trafficking, drug smuggling, and money laundering network, which had been created in the early 70s by the

Cosa Nostra’s Cuntrera-Caruana family. [175]   In the 1990s, the Aruba-based Mansur family, of Lebanese descent, took over the network, adding cigarette smuggling to their operations.  According to U.S. court documents from March 2001,“Much of the proceeds garnered by the Mansur brothers went to Hizballah.” [176]

and

http://www.tobacco.org/articles/country/aruba/

Intro:

[This reprise of a part of the CPI report contains graphics of some of the documents--gb]

The chief purveyors of tobacco through Colombia's "backdoor ports" were two powerful Aruba families by the names of Mansur and Harms.

In August 1994, the United States indicted cousins Eric and Alex Mansur along with 52 others allegedly involved in a massive drug-money laundering enterprise. The investigation, dubbed Operation Golden Trash, targeted an alleged conspiracy that used narco dollars to purchase cigarettes, alcohol and household electronics, which were sold to individuals and businesses in Colombia. The proceeds flowed to cocaine barons.

could the Mansur family have anything to do with the sumerians in the posts?

If too far fetched let me know i can take it LOL



Some believe the Mansurs relate to these posts more directly

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians do not like the Babylonian intrusion.
The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….

judicial feat (fi'-at)?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 14, 2008, 08:08:26 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun

There was a meeting on june 28th between Croes, Donner(dutch justice minister) and Pechtold(dutch minister of kingdom relations) in curacao. During this meeting croes asked the dutch ministers for assistance in rectifying the aruban image that was painted in the US media. The bad image was harming arubas tourist industry. (wampum)
This would also tie in nicely to the trio comment in the post

I still think that a judge fits "his lordship" best but....

can't figure out what either Croes or the judge that let PVDS and SGC walk have to do with this one....?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks
The way is clouded for the sacrifice
Rules have changed, so has the maze
the way is lost for the pioneers who went to live among the indians
The flames are growing
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police;
to spare the teepees
Singing cards have lost their power
Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand
His lordship will bestow the title soon….
They will save the teepees and the palace,
but first
The Sacrifice



The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio  (DirtyHand kept hidden)
The key to edens door did not exist     


My first thought was stick to the three involved, so who is his lordship, judge or croes?
just thought i should mention the trio on the 28th
do you think his lordship is a judge?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on March 14, 2008, 08:10:46 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun

There was a meeting on june 28th between Croes, Donner(dutch justice minister) and Pechtold(dutch minister of kingdom relations) in curacao. During this meeting croes asked the dutch ministers for assistance in rectifying the aruban image that was painted in the US media. The bad image was harming arubas tourist industry. (wampum)
This would also tie in nicely to the trio comment in the post

I still think that a judge fits "his lordship" best but....

can't figure out what either Croes or the judge that let PVDS and SGC walk have to do with this one....?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks
The way is clouded for the sacrifice
Rules have changed, so has the maze
the way is lost for the pioneers who went to live among the indians
The flames are growing
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police;
to spare the teepees
Singing cards have lost their power
Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand
His lordship will bestow the title soon….
They will save the teepees and the palace,
but first
The Sacrifice

jackb,

Do you have a link for this source?

Interesting. A Croes that was at the meeting. Still reaching to tie in SGC into the mix. Croes is as common as a Yoruba priest down there, but one has to be related. With small island inter relations - most likely, more than one.

So, one suspect names SGC and he was arrested. I read somewhere else that SGC mentions he was arrested because he over heard something stated by one of the suspects.

I think the island's close familial relationships are the nut that will not likely be cracked.


Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 14, 2008, 08:17:14 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun

There was a meeting on june 28th between Croes, Donner(dutch justice minister) and Pechtold(dutch minister of kingdom relations) in curacao. During this meeting croes asked the dutch ministers for assistance in rectifying the aruban image that was painted in the US media. The bad image was harming arubas tourist industry. (wampum)
This would also tie in nicely to the trio comment in the post

I still think that a judge fits "his lordship" best but....

can't figure out what either Croes or the judge that let PVDS and SGC walk have to do with this one....?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks
The way is clouded for the sacrifice
Rules have changed, so has the maze
the way is lost for the pioneers who went to live among the indians
The flames are growing
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police;
to spare the teepees
Singing cards have lost their power
Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand
His lordship will bestow the title soon….
They will save the teepees and the palace,
but first
The Sacrifice
 

Odie (Oduber) is the Minister of Justice.  That seems to fit.  He went to Holland for some reason or other and I do not believe he was really on vacation.    Odie smoozes as much as he can with the Queen.  If not a judge then the Minister of Justice might have a title known as "his lordship" he uses when trying to look official and not smoozing with the locals. jack blue


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 14, 2008, 08:17:57 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun

There was a meeting on june 28th between Croes, Donner(dutch justice minister) and Pechtold(dutch minister of kingdom relations) in curacao. During this meeting croes asked the dutch ministers for assistance in rectifying the aruban image that was painted in the US media. The bad image was harming arubas tourist industry. (wampum)
This would also tie in nicely to the trio comment in the post

I still think that a judge fits "his lordship" best but....

can't figure out what either Croes or the judge that let PVDS and SGC walk have to do with this one....?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks
The way is clouded for the sacrifice
Rules have changed, so has the maze
the way is lost for the pioneers who went to live among the indians
The flames are growing
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police;
to spare the teepees
Singing cards have lost their power
Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand
His lordship will bestow the title soon….
They will save the teepees and the palace,
but first
The Sacrifice

jackb,

Do you have a link for this source?

Interesting. A Croes that was at the meeting. Still reaching to tie in SGC into the mix. Croes is as common as a Yoruba priest down there, but one has to be related. With small island inter relations - most likely, more than one.

So, one suspect names SGC and he was arrested. I read somewhere else that SGC mentions he was arrested because he over heard something stated by one of the suspects.

I think the island's close familial relationships are the nut that will not likely be cracked.


Fin

Fin

here's one
http://juridischdagblad.nl/content/view/1831/71/

This one talks about them meeting about police matters, anti terrorism, drugs etc

http://www.elsevier.nl/dossierartikel/asp/dossier/620/hoofdstuk/4/artikel/51768/reageer/ja/index.html

this one is mostly about aruba's bad image due to us media


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 14, 2008, 08:19:02 PM
fin Croes = Rudy Croes


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 14, 2008, 08:31:45 PM


But he wasn't arrested until the 22nd or 23rd.

Was Freddy ever arrested?
 

Freddy was not arrested for THIS case but quetioned because he had committed crimes on another minor.  They were supposedly wanting info from him because of his type crimes.   jack b


I understand that...but someone was arrested right after Steve Croes...within 12 hours of each other...that is what needs to be determined...who was that person?  Find that out and you have Simian's 5th suspect.
 

Palus Vandersloot right after croes


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 14, 2008, 08:35:16 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun

There was a meeting on june 28th between Croes, Donner(dutch justice minister) and Pechtold(dutch minister of kingdom relations) in curacao. During this meeting croes asked the dutch ministers for assistance in rectifying the aruban image that was painted in the US media. The bad image was harming arubas tourist industry. (wampum)
This would also tie in nicely to the trio comment in the post

I still think that a judge fits "his lordship" best but....

can't figure out what either Croes or the judge that let PVDS and SGC walk have to do with this one....?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks
The way is clouded for the sacrifice
Rules have changed, so has the maze
the way is lost for the pioneers who went to live among the indians
The flames are growing
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police;
to spare the teepees
Singing cards have lost their power
Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand
His lordship will bestow the title soon….
They will save the teepees and the palace,
but first
The Sacrifice



The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio  (DirtyHand kept hidden)
The key to edens door did not exist     


My first thought was stick to the three involved, so who is his lordship, judge or croes?
just thought i should mention the trio on the 28th
do you think his lordship is a judge?


Sumerian feat (fi'-at) may be Dutch law.....used to make DirtyHand disappear.....sparing polis (comps) and preserving babylon

The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks

his lordship (IMO)= Posner


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 14, 2008, 08:48:48 PM
thx columbo got some more thinking to do


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 14, 2008, 08:50:21 PM
columbo=colombo srry lol


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 14, 2008, 08:55:19 PM
The person that was arrested/detained right after Steve Croes is your 5th suspect.  Whoever that was...Simian's hints are right in line with this...as so many have said, when reading in context it is easy to see...once again...I will say it...we only have to deteremine who that person was that was arrested the same day as Steve Croes to know who the 5th suspect was.  It was right before they took Paulus in...there were more rumors about another person that day than day on the FP.  Those in Aruba were hearing things that we did not know about at the time.

Also, yes there are many dirty hands in this mess.  I have come to believe that the dirty hand reference is about several persons that are in on the corruption and cover up and each and every time Shango mentions them he could easily be talking about a different person. 


Question for thought.....Who are the messengers?


 

If you are wanting who is arrested/detained after Steve Croes, it is Palus Vandersloot.  j/b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 14, 2008, 08:57:45 PM
So we have Posner or Oduber...see why this is so hard to pin down? LOL
 

Where was Odie born.  He may not be an Aruban.  He may be a dark Dutch.  He is the minister of Justice.  j/b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 14, 2008, 08:59:24 PM
going by arrests or people interviewed as suspects we still have to assume PVDS is the 5th suspect
does that make sense in light of cool and crazy guy she met earlier in the week?....NO
Besed on rumours LVR could be 5th but there have been no documents from press or Mcgraw timeline to confirm this.
ideas anyone?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 15, 2008, 01:51:53 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun

There was a meeting on june 28th between Croes, Donner (dutch justice minister) and Pechtold (dutch minister of kingdom relations) in curacao. During this meeting croes asked the dutch ministers for assistance in rectifying the aruban image that was painted in the US media. The bad image was harming arubas tourist industry. (wampum)

This would also tie in nicely to the trio comment in the post

I still think that a judge fits "his lordship" best but....

perhaps the trio is not three persons but three branches of gov't

a rep from each branch would form a trio

ie: once his lordship agreed/became involved ...
all three branches of gov't were represented

Sun June 26, 2005 11:09pm simian says:
The whisperer is on the line. The Babylonians know what happened, but their hands are tied. They do not own the hammer nor the block.

The owner of the hammer and the block will never carry the package from the Hague. The trias works infallibly.
 
The party-go-ers need to be pinched, but no one wants to be the cafone. Including the boy. Too much is at stake and he is no Ajax.

He is biting his tongue so he won’t be able to speak. So afraid he is.

Separation of powers, a term coined by French political Enlightenment thinker Baron de Montesquieu, is a model for the governance of democratic states. The model is also known as Trias Politica.

Under this model, the state is divided into branches or estates, and each estate of the state has separate and independent powers and areas of responsibility. The normal division of estates is into the Executive, the Legislative, and the Judicial.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 15, 2008, 02:11:13 AM
may not have explained that very well

if interpretation of facts/clues
leads to the belief that the incomplete trio
consists of reps from executive and legislative branches ...
then the one completing the trio reps judicial branch

and therefore his lordship is judicial

if interpretation leads to belief that
incomplete trio consists of legislative and judicial branches ...

then his lordship is from executive branch

if interpretation leads to belief that
incomplete trio consists of executive and judicial branches ...

then his lordship is from legislative branch



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Finbar on March 15, 2008, 02:16:38 AM
Yes. I remember a long time ago I researched trias and could not find anything.

But the three branches of government sounds plausible.

Someone here posted the fact that the three branches of government involved themselves in this case was a major faux pas.

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 15, 2008, 02:45:26 AM

Yes. I remember a long time ago I researched trias and could not find anything.

fin:100s / finn:1

ooh, look out, I'm gaining on ya, LOL



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 15, 2008, 07:11:59 AM
trio:


The Arawaks keep the singing card     (4-DirtyHand)
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough    (1+2=3)
His lordships presence guarantees a trio  (not 4)




The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….
[judicial feat]


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 15, 2008, 05:21:12 PM

No Wampum for AHATA…LOL

AHATA Elects A New Board
 Business      December 13th, 2007

Palm Beach – A new Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association board was elected during the recent AHATA General Assembly, held at the Radisson Aruba Resort & Casino.

The new officers of the board were elected from a slate of candidates presented by a nominating committee headed by General Manager Paul Gielen, Renaissance Aruba Resort, and independent consultant Jaap Beaujon.
The election process was overseen by Dr. Ryan Peterson of the Universidad di Aruba.

The new board of the Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association consists of the following eight members: Rick Zeolla, General Manager, Marriott Aruba Resort; Eduardo De Veer, Developer, Meta Corp; Scott Allen, General Manager, Hyatt Regency; Guillermo Valencia, General Manager Holiday Inn Sunspree Resort; Gary Jutz, General Manager, Radisson Aruba Resort & Casino; Matt Balcik, General Manager, Westin Aruba Resort; Peter Steinmetz, Director, Aruba Airport Authority; David Smith, VP Public Relations, Valero Aruba Refinery.

Two board candidates, Joe Najjar, General Manager, La Cabana Beach & Racquet Club and Andres Pichardo, Senior VP Sales and Marketing, Occidental Grand Aruba, remained available in case of seat vacancy on the board and were invited to attend all meetings effective immediately.
Rob Smith, President and CEO of the Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association reports the new board will conduct its first meeting this week, with hotelier Ewald Biemans, Bucuti Beach Resort & Tara Suites, as Chairman of the Board.

AHATA and GRETA ON THE RECORD….

Judge:  Mr Zeolla, I would remind you that you are under oath, the esteemed Attorney has asked if you have any personal connection to any of the former suspects in the Natalee Holloway case or their families?

Zeolla:  Well, just a little, Your Lordship.

My wife and I were babysitting one of the younger ditches while his mother was out of the country and while his father was gambling in the casino on the night before Ms Holloway disappeared. And, and my wife is PTA President at ISA where all of our children have and are attending school….that is a private school in Aruba, partially funded by the State Department and The Netherlands Government…and…and…Mrs. Ditch is employed as a teacher there…and…they, the ditches, are members of the IFA, that is the International Friends of Aruba, as are my wife and I, so we do meet socially, as well as our kids knowing each other…and they do sleepover at times…as I said Your Lordship…just a little connection to …..

 ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 15, 2008, 07:55:10 PM
@ mum ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

@ caps been reading your posts from a while back about the surinam connection
if you juggle with the letters in sumerian you get suriname not sure if it helps though LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 15, 2008, 08:01:01 PM
the foundations will shake even harder if Arawak DirtyHand is revealed


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 15, 2008, 09:25:53 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun

There was a meeting on june 28th between Croes, Donner(dutch justice minister) and Pechtold(dutch minister of kingdom relations) in curacao. During this meeting croes asked the dutch ministers for assistance in rectifying the aruban image that was painted in the US media. The bad image was harming arubas tourist industry. (wampum)
This would also tie in nicely to the trio comment in the post

I still think that a judge fits "his lordship" best but....

can't figure out what either Croes or the judge that let PVDS and SGC walk have to do with this one....?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks
The way is clouded for the sacrifice
Rules have changed, so has the maze
the way is lost for the pioneers who went to live among the indians
The flames are growing
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police;
to spare the teepees
Singing cards have lost their power
Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand
His lordship will bestow the title soon….
They will save the teepees and the palace,
but first
The Sacrifice
 

Odie (Oduber) is the Minister of Justice.  That seems to fit.  He went to Holland for some reason or other and I do not believe he was really on vacation.    Odie smoozes as much as he can with the Queen.  If not a judge then the Minister of Justice might have a title known as "his lordship" he uses when trying to look official and not smoozing with the locals. jack blue

Boy did I mess that up.  Odie is PM and Croes MOJ.  Anyway Croes is the one who went to Holland too, I believe.  I saw Odie with the queen in a pic.  He must mean something to the royals to put up with his sorriness.  Jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 15, 2008, 10:04:26 PM
So we have Posner or Oduber...see why this is so hard to pin down? LOL
 

Where was Odie born.  He may not be an Aruban.  He may be a dark Dutch.  He is the minister of Justice.  j/b
[/quoteMJ.  Got a case of the DAs.  jack


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 15, 2008, 10:06:36 PM
So we have Posner or Oduber...see why this is so hard to pin down? LOL
 

Where was Odie born.  He may not be an Aruban.  He may be a dark Dutch.  He is the minister of Justice.  j/b
[/quoteMJ.  Got a case of the DAs.  jack

  Odie is Prime M and Croes Minister of J.  Still got a case of the DAs.  Jack


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 15, 2008, 10:14:39 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Did the babylonians like to make movies?
From the tears, a new river will spring forth….


Security videos??  From the Wyndham...owned by Riverol?  just thinking....
 

I seem to get that Shango is saying frome the pain a new era in governance will start.
Something good will eventually be gained from all of this.  Perhaps an outing of the crooks and oppressors.  That goes to show great things are accomplished by those for whom it was meant to be.  NH will have accomplished great things even in her death.  Eventually  those waters that have been bittered by the dutch and their filthiness will emerge and be cleansed by this new river.  Jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 15, 2008, 10:24:51 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Did the babylonians like to make movies?
From the tears, a new river will spring forth….


Security videos??  From the Wyndham...owned by Riverol?  just thinking....
 

I seem to get that Shango is saying frome the pain a new era in governance will start.
Something good will eventually be gained from all of this.  Perhaps an outing of the crooks and oppressors.  That goes to show great things are accomplished by those for whom it was meant to be.  NH will have accomplished great things even in her death.  Eventually  those waters that have been bittered by the dutch and their filthiness will emerge and be cleansed by this new river.  Jack b

These videos are under control of the Beach Security owned by Geoffrey van cromvroits father who is not allowing them to be seen to protect Geoffrey????  Posner took his azz and ran to Chicago.  He has his copies and is probably not as good as the Cromvroits with the security videos and the manipulation of them.  Cromvroits daughter, as well, worked at the PD and could have seen her baby brother in some big azzed trouble and between she, cromvroit, Vanderstratten and Palus changed what they needed changing and have been covering ever since.  Vanderstratten and Cromvroit would protect their jobs and livlihood.  cromvroit would never be able to operate security again if his son was involved with a murder and it was to be found out.  Especially him working as Patrol, having keys and business security access.  It comes down to those three and Jacobs who is lazy and would kiss Vanderfstrattens behind if it meant he could skate until retirement.  Yes, those cops were destroying evidence as fast as people found it and turned it in.  By now I am beginning to get pissed at our State Department for not protecting the integrity of our citizens' rights., etc.  This country should pressure them and demand her be found and the rats dealth with.  Our country needs to stand up for her citizens and if she does not, then WE NEED To know why not.  Who is standing in the way.  Perhaps they are getting some Aruban spin off of perks.  This stuff has got to stop.  Jack Blue


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 15, 2008, 11:17:54 PM

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
Windows looking onto Babylon are being opened by the ThreadSurfers (open windows......MS Windows?)

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:29 pm
Some windows overlooking Babylon have been opened

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:37 am
Yliana and Subdude have both opened windows which look into the heart of babylon
do not stray from your paths (house with the path, but not of gold)
you hold the key in hand

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:28 am
Not all lions leave their den




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on March 16, 2008, 06:00:47 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun

There was a meeting on june 28th between Croes, Donner(dutch justice minister) and Pechtold(dutch minister of kingdom relations) in curacao. During this meeting croes asked the dutch ministers for assistance in rectifying the aruban image that was painted in the US media. The bad image was harming arubas tourist industry. (wampum)
This would also tie in nicely to the trio comment in the post

I still think that a judge fits "his lordship" best but....

can't figure out what either Croes or the judge that let PVDS and SGC walk have to do with this one....?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks
The way is clouded for the sacrifice
Rules have changed, so has the maze
the way is lost for the pioneers who went to live among the indians
The flames are growing
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police;
to spare the teepees
Singing cards have lost their power
Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand
His lordship will bestow the title soon….
They will save the teepees and the palace,
but first
The Sacrifice



The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio  (DirtyHand kept hidden)
The key to edens door did not exist     


My first thought was stick to the three involved, so who is his lordship, judge or croes?
just thought i should mention the trio on the 28th
do you think his lordship is a judge?


Sumerian feat (fi'-at) may be Dutch law.....used to make DirtyHand disappear.....sparing polis (comps) and preserving babylon

The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks

his lordship (IMO)= Posner

http://www.caribbeancourtofjustice.org/speeches/wit/ccj_Role_in%20business_040206_wit.pdf (http://www.caribbeancourtofjustice.org/speeches/wit/ccj_Role_in%20business_040206_wit.pdf)

In reading the above article I thought of the discussion here.  On page 3 Judge Justice Jacob Wit refers to the three major legal systems that have their representatives in the courts; the common law, the civil law, and the international law....
  ::MonkeyCool:: 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on March 16, 2008, 06:14:57 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Did the babylonians like to make movies?
From the tears, a new river will spring forth….


Security videos??  From the Wyndham...owned by Riverol?  just thinking....
 

I seem to get that Shango is saying frome the pain a new era in governance will start.
Something good will eventually be gained from all of this.  Perhaps an outing of the crooks and oppressors.  That goes to show great things are accomplished by those for whom it was meant to be.  NH will have accomplished great things even in her death.  Eventually  those waters that have been bittered by the dutch and their filthiness will emerge and be cleansed by this new river.  Jack b

These videos are under control of the Beach Security owned by Geoffrey van cromvroits father who is not allowing them to be seen to protect Geoffrey????  Posner took his azz and ran to Chicago.  He has his copies and is probably not as good as the Cromvroits with the security videos and the manipulation of them.  Cromvroits daughter, as well, worked at the PD and could have seen her baby brother in some big azzed trouble and between she, cromvroit, Vanderstratten and Palus changed what they needed changing and have been covering ever since.  Vanderstratten and Cromvroit would protect their jobs and livlihood.  cromvroit would never be able to operate security again if his son was involved with a murder and it was to be found out.  Especially him working as Patrol, having keys and business security access.  It comes down to those three and Jacobs who is lazy and would kiss Vanderfstrattens behind if it meant he could skate until retirement.  Yes, those cops were destroying evidence as fast as people found it and turned it in.  By now I am beginning to get pissed at our State Department for not protecting the integrity of our citizens' rights., etc.  This country should pressure them and demand her be found and the rats dealth with.  Our country needs to stand up for her citizens and if she does not, then WE NEED To know why not.  Who is standing in the way.  Perhaps they are getting some Aruban spin off of perks.  This stuff has got to stop.  Jack Blue

http://www.caribbeancourtofjustice.org/judges_pages/wit.html
The Honourable Mr. Justice Jacob Wit

Snip:
Mr. Justice Wit was appointed by Her Majesty Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands as Deputy Judge of the Rotterdam District Court in January 1984, Judge of the Rotterdam District Court in March 1985 and Judge of the Joint Court of Justice of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba on 1 October 1988. This Court consists of two Courts of First Instance (Netherlands Antilles, Aruba) and a Court of Appeal. Resident in Curaçao since 1986, from then to the present, Mr. Justice Wit has presided over or sat in the Court of Appeal, but mainly presided in the Courts of First Instan­ce over a wide range of cases, involving: civil law (contract, tort, property, succession), commercial and admiralty law, insurance, bankruptcy and (cross border) insolvency, company law and intellectual property, criminal law (serious crime, government corruption, international fraud, money laundering), military law, administrative law, constitutional law and international human rights law.

Snip:
Off the Bench, Mr. Justice Wit has served as Chairman of the Committee of Supervision of the Nether­lands Antilles' Prisons and Houses of Detention (1987-1991); Chairman of the Board of Discipline for Medical Doctors (1992-1995); President of the Military Court of the Nether­lands Antilles (1992-present); Chairman of the Judicial Working Groups on (a) Videoconfe­ren­cing in Court and (b) Code of Ethics for the Judiciary (2003-present); and Chairman of the Committee of Supervision of the Securi­ty Servi­ce of Aruba (2004-present). He has also been a member of the National Committee On Revising the Codes of Crimi­nal Procedure of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba (1987-1998); and Vice-President of the National Committee On Revi­sing the Crimi­nal Code of the Netherlands Antilles (2002-present).
Snip
 





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 16, 2008, 08:49:34 AM
Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Who said the alibi played for the Van Der Sloot’s? The 5th suspect is waltzing away.
Posted Jun 24, 10:45 AM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “Evening Update; Natalee Holloway” | View Post

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?



Sounds like Shango was posting what some-one else was relaying to him here!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 16, 2008, 08:54:50 AM
trio

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas. (1+2=3)
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.
(last line: what his Lordship's presence guarantees    4-1=3)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 16, 2008, 08:56:51 AM
it depends on how we define the fifth suspect
are witnesses suspects, do you have to be arrested to be a suspect or is anybody that has relevance to the cas a suspect?

A witness is some one that has information - No Arrest
A  suspect is one that is part of the crime - Arrest
a winess/suspect is someone that has information but that information makes him a suspect - Arrest depend of others who snitch
a suspect/witness is that he is involved but snitched and now has preferential treatment.



would in that case PVDS be the 5th suspect?

One more thing, disregard if irrelevant of course
DINA: Departamento di Imigration y Naturalisacion Aruba


Rudy Croes...

E. Holders of a Laissez-passer (also if not traveling on duty) issued by the United Nations.

Permission to work in Aruba. Visitors wishing to work and/or reside in Aruba for a number of months must have a formal working permit, or residence permit issued by the Ministry of Justice (Department of immigration and Naturalization (D.I.N.A.). The future employer of the person concerned is responsible for the application of the working permit. Further information and application forms for written permits can be obtained free of charge at the aforementioned Department. (Ministry of Justice, c/o Department of Immigration and Naturalization (DINA). Voldellaan 6-D Tel. (297) 582-8500 / (297) 585-8592, Fax (297) 585-8593

http://www.aruba-travelguide.com/vacation/entry_requirements.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 16, 2008, 08:57:26 AM
his Lordship's presence......but where: in court? or in the house with the path?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 16, 2008, 09:03:25 AM

Story from FP of Scared Monkeys: June 17th, 2005
9:17 am: From one of our great sources in Aruba, americaninaruba …

today 6am police go into house in Sta Cruz where they go with one person ……with initials S.C. this arrest took place 6am this morning.....also in Savaneta they took someone for interogation…..
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Unbelievable, after 18 days a fourth suspect now confirmed arrested, 26 year old, son of a prominent businessman and alleged friend of Joran van der Sloot. Aruban authorities state there is an search going on with regards to this arrest but did not state where.

The boy has the initials SGC, and his father is also high in the judiciary.

so, Steve Croes' father is prominent businessman AND high in the judiciary?

fin: is this where you got "high in the judiciary"?
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Update: 1045 There is a rumor of another person taken into custody, his father recently committed suicide and that he has had serious mental issues since. He has two homes, a house on the main road of Savaneta and also another one in Seroe Alejandro, and was known for having underground parties.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Checkme on June 17th, 2005 1:23 pm
Connie,
The guy this morning is not Dutch. The guy they brought in last night is. However, it looks like the not-Dutch guy is JvdS’s friend and the Dutch guy is the Kalpoe’s.

maybe Freddy is the not-Dutch guy...

saying that Croes is friend of JvdS and LvR is friend of K2 ...
ass backward according to what we know/think

but ... even if linkage is mistakenly reversed,
quite interesting that friendships were acknowledged/had been discovered
between Joran/LvR and Steve Croes/K2

because those particular relationships
have been denied since day one, by all involved

Lucy on June 17th, 2005 5:07 pm
Checkme: Is Steve Croes the same guy with the famous loud truck? Thanks

is she referring to LvR's "earthquake" van ... outfitted w/ deluxe sound system?

Checkme on June 17th, 2005 5:14 pm
Lucy, So you have been paying real attention… No, this is not the same guy. Info on him is still not out yet, at least not officially.

nagpur on June 17th, 2005 5:36 pm
The diskjockey just selled the drugs to JvdS to drug Natalee and she got an overdose and went in a coma, so Deepak thought that after some time she would wake up and they would lose her at the beach or a crackhouse. So they hid her body at a friends house, but she didn’t make it, so they all wrapped her body up in a black plastic bag, filled with stones and disposed her body in the Carribean Sea. That’s my theory.

interesting theory, interesting details:
Croes the DJ as source of drugs that night,
Deepak right smack in the middle of the event,
black plastic bag/stones




My comment in red...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 16, 2008, 09:11:01 AM
Yes, the Steve Croes and LVR stories are intertwined only because the media on Aruba wasn't playing straight with the rest of the world.  That is why we still have no idea who is the 4th and 5th and in what order they actually were arrested or if LVR is even involved.  To me, a person that needs an alibi is a SUSPECT not a witness.  I have never seen witnesses need alibis, but then again it is Aruba.  Although Steve Croes did not have to provide an alibi..he was an alibi....then Freddy had an alibi in those two girls and of course there is Lorenzo...seems a guy names Max provided his alibi...so then since Steve Croes only provided an alibi for the 3 perps... does that make Steve Croes an arrested witness?  Yep.  I just confused myself. Gosh!! :roll:

If you go by what we have heard, Croes was arrested for providing the HI story…anyone have the actual charges on him?

And Freddy earlier for a false alibi...it was designed to confuse IMO!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 16, 2008, 09:21:25 AM
Interesting.....Freddy was first 'interviewed' on Sunday June 12 at 11:05am, according to the spreadsheet that Grande was able to put together, Freddy was the only interview that day.  At least as far as we can tell from the list of documents from the Dr. Phil case.

This from Deepak's June 11 statement at 12:10 hours:

I also have to tell you that Joran was wearing white sneakers/sport shoes that night. If you search/investigate his home then you will see that the shoes aren't there. He had told me that he had theft them on the beach.
To your question whether I of if Joran told the story to someone else,   than I can say the following. I know Joran told his story to his friend named Freddy ZEDAN. Freddy lives behind Joran. His mobile phone number is inside my mobile phone.

To your question whether Joran told me what he had told Freddy, I can say the following. Joran told me that he had told Freddy the truth and the story that was made up. I know that he trusts Freddy more because they have known each other for a long time. If you go and talk to Freddy, he will tell you the made up story and maybe also the truth.


So...When, exactly, so they think a confession was made?  June 10th or 11th?  We know it was before June 12th and Freddy was not interviewed until June 12th.

Truthseeker it was being posted on early AM of June 11th. IIRC.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 16, 2008, 09:30:51 AM
Quote from JE:

Maybe this could have something to do with it:

Joran: Deepak and I had agreed that we should talk a lot on the phone and "Chat" a lot on internet to make our story believable. I must also state that I had talked to Freddy and my parents about the fact that Deepak could have gone back to the girl. Freddy also said that if Deepak indeed went back to the girl that I was in big trouble because I was the last person seen with the girl. Freddy had told me that to be safe I should record a conversation between Deepak, Satish and myself.


For Freddy to have said something that got Deepak and Satish arrested it would need to be on the record, right?  So Freddy gave a statement prior to their arrest and it wasn't an alibi like Steve Croes.  So if they arrested Steve because he DID alibi the Kalpoes...why would they not have arrested Freddy for what he said?   I guess the important thing is what time did Freddy say whatever it was that got them arrested?  That has to be on the record somewhere...in all the jumble of information.  I wish I could find it.  :roll:
[/quote

Lala’s…Starting to think Freddy is a ‘special witness/suspect’!

LOL...can't fix quote!!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 16, 2008, 10:42:31 AM
Jossy Attacks! 10/17/05
http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/10/government-has-its-hand-over-michael.html "Monday, October 17, 2005 Government has its hand over Michael Posner’s head? Notorious Chicago figure active in Aruba casino DIARIO Aruba 10/17/2005 ORANJESTAD (AAN): Some time ago DIARIO found information regarding the manager of the Holiday Inn’s Excelsior Casino and people have been calling out to ask how a figure with a criminal past of such an extent can be active in the casino industry of Aruba. His name? Michael Posner, owner (or one of the owners) of the Brickel Hotel situated in front of the big hotels in Malmok. In the past he was arrested in the state of Illinois for violation of the Ricco Act (racketeering) and because he was also involved in the world of prostitution. He was condemned to 10 years in prison, but apparently he served 8 out of the 10 years. He appealed his case and lost the appeal! After he was released he was on parole for 5 years. His name is also mentioned as an associate of a notorious family. DIARIO knows that the government is at the height of such people, and asks how he can be active in the casino industry of Aruba. How did he find a permit to work in this branch with the background that he has? How has the Minister of Justice still not taken action against him? Now that his criminal past is known, what is the government waiting for to take him out of Aruba? During the campaign which recently came to an end, many comments and rumours were circulating regarding contributions to certain politicians, including those in the government. DIARIO hopes that the issue of campaign moneys remain a rumour, because if true, then there are more politicians for sale than is apparent. The presence of Michael Posner in the Aruba casino industry, with the criminal past that he has, does not speak well of the judicial control system, nor that of National Security, nor of those in charge to check the background of those who work in the tourism industry of Aruba. This is the damage that one person with such a bad reputation, who was incarcerated during 8 years, who is associated with a notorious family in America, can cause to the tourism of Aruba."


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 16, 2008, 10:44:10 AM
Monday, October 17, 2005 Government has its hand over Michael Posner’s head


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 16, 2008, 10:45:59 AM
for emphasis:

This is the damage that one person with such a bad reputation, who was incarcerated during 8 years, who is associated with a notorious family in America, can cause to the tourism of Aruba


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 16, 2008, 03:21:55 PM
trio

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas. (1+2=3)
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.
(last line: what his Lordship's presence guarantees    4-1=3)

 

It sounds like whomever was holding Joran in jail was holding him to keep him from talking as he has dirt on his hands too.  Vandersloot may know the dirt and they were blackmailing each other one saying he wants a guarantee Joran will keep his mouth shut., etc.  j/b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 16, 2008, 03:41:54 PM
Yes, the Steve Croes and LVR stories are intertwined only because the media on Aruba wasn't playing straight with the rest of the world.  That is why we still have no idea who is the 4th and 5th and in what order they actually were arrested or if LVR is even involved.  To me, a person that needs an alibi is a SUSPECT not a witness.  I have never seen witnesses need alibis, but then again it is Aruba.  Although Steve Croes did not have to provide an alibi..he was an alibi....then Freddy had an alibi in those two girls and of course there is Lorenzo...seems a guy names Max provided his alibi...so then since Steve Croes only provided an alibi for the 3 perps... does that make Steve Croes an arrested witness?  Yep.  I just confused myself. Gosh!! :roll:

If you go by what we have heard, Croes was arrested for providing the HI story…anyone have the actual charges on him?

And Freddy earlier for a false alibi...it was designed to confuse IMO!

Some interesting info from SM FP 2005/06/17
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/17/breaking-news-4th-person-arrested-in-natalee-holloway-case/#comments

At 9:50 am: MSNBC & Fox have just reported the arrest of a fourth suspect. A 27 year old man.
It has been confirmed by Fox speaking to individual in Justice department 4th arrest 26 year old friend of joran

Fox News now reporting: Sources: 4th Person Arrested in Aruba Mystery

    Authorities in Aruba arrested a fourth man in connection with the disappearance of missing Alabama honors student Natalee Holloway, sources told FOX News.

    The new person detained is a 26-year-old friend of Joran van der Sloot — who was with Holloway the night she disappeared, sources said. Van der Sloot, 17, has been detained but not charged.

****
Unbelievable, after 18 days a fourth suspect now confirmed arrested, 26 year old, son of a prominent businessman and alleged friend of joran van der Sloot. Aruban authorities state there is an search going on with regards to this arrest but did not state where.

The boy has the initials SGC, and his father is also high in the judiciary.

Update: 1045 There is a rumor of another person taken into custody, his father recently committed suicide and that he has had serious mental issues since. He has two homes, a house on the main road of savaneta and also another one in Seroe Alejandro, and was know for having underground parties.

This is getting a little bizarre.

interesting posts:

Billyboy leroy from alabama on June 17th, 2005 3:52 pm

I think , this has happend

once upon a time there was a man called steve croes was the writer of a first aid book , but bored with his live witing books on emergencies , he decided he wanted to be a disc jockey on a tropical island , so he did some cosmetical operations , provided by a anonimous corperation ran by two former security guards in venezuela . In order to blend in on aruba he needed to buy a new indentity , with the help of a young kid (joran van der sloot) father (paul van der sloot) who father had influence in the local law system. So smuggled him on a boat called the tatoo to aruba an provided him with a new passport the courier for this passport was lorenzo . Then one day on the island appeard a nice young lady called natalee who per coincidence liked reading books on emergencys uncovered on her last night out poor steve a writer of books. Steve panicked that is true indentity would be uncovered and that he was not the cool disc jockey he claimed to be but a writer of books on emergencies . So steve offered her a large sum of money enough to start a new life unoticed to say nothing about the whole ordeal. So she went on her last night out with the sun of the judge and 2 brothers, the karpoe brothers” who provided security to dig up a large sum with money hidden near the light house . Then she hid in a cave for a while before being flown out to another country with an helicopter with an infared camera to an other country ………………………….


#  Lucy on June 17th, 2005 5:07 pm

Checkme:
Is Steve Croes the same guy with the famous loud truck?
Thanks

#  Checkme on June 17th, 2005 5:14 pm

Lucy,
So you have been paying real attention… No, this is not the same guy. Info on him is still not out yet, at least not officially.


#  Checkme on June 17th, 2005 6:02 pm

Look for the blue (with grafiti) delivery truck getting impounded…

#  Checkme on June 17th, 2005 6:11 pm

Fox-news:
“FOX also learned that police may have questioned yet another young man, said to be of Dutch nationality, on Thursday night.”

This is the guy with the blue van… He is the key to the story.







Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 16, 2008, 03:45:46 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy
Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House
Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house,
and so DirtyHand was discovered
But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings
He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous

He was discovered???? By whom?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 16, 2008, 04:11:09 PM
from a post by texasmom on the NCD


The Honourable Mr. Justice Wit is married to Sheila Wit-Thodé, a native of Curaçao. They have 4 children: Demseys, Taciana, Eurydice, and Nausi­caä, all born in Curaçao


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:02 pm
The babylonians are to blame.
The arawaks were worried about teepees and the cowboys.
They did not bring DirtyHand into the Tribe!
He will go back to babylon broken, after the sacrifice is eaten

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak
Many pioneers have settled with the tribe

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:57 pm
Outsiders brought into the Arawak tribe walk in many circles, nameless


just a thought


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 16, 2008, 04:34:34 PM
trio

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas. (1+2=3)
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.
(last line: what his Lordship's presence guarantees    4-1=3)

 

It sounds like whomever was holding Joran in jail was holding him to keep him from talking as he has dirt on his hands too.  Vandersloot may know the dirt and they were blackmailing each other one saying he wants a guarantee Joran will keep his mouth shut., etc.  j/b


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

the game, from pg 4:
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
Both pimps and prostitutes generally referred to their activities as “the game.”

elders of the game, not just of babylon (Arawak!!!!!) walk in older circles

DirtyHand is the link
holds the real key!   (to what?)

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians (pimps)
and the arawak nation
   (elders of the game)
meet, under cover of delusion.
In the maze
the lions which play
shall be found.
The gamblers also took note.
Tell the cowboys!
 
Tribe knows the players, even the elders of the inner circle


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 16, 2008, 04:35:48 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy
Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House
Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house,
and so DirtyHand was discovered
But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings
He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous

He was discovered???? By whom?



Gods of the cowboys


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 16, 2008, 04:39:36 PM
Post by Dennisintn on NCD



On 7-1 “Hasibokos” reported, “In March 2004 Paulus van der Sloot traveled to Holland for a year and when he returned to Aruba in March 2005 he did not receive the required recommendation to become a Judge. The results of his training in Holland were not sufficient to become a Judge, and he was notified by the President of the Common Court of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba that he cannot function as a judge and has to look for another function.”

and still anita referred to paulus as a judge or judge-in-training several times, during interviews.
dennisintn


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks
The way is clouded for the sacrifice
Rules have changed, so has the maze
the way is lost for the pioneers who went to live among the indians
The flames are growing
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police;
to spare the teepees
Singing cards have lost their power
Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand
His lordship will bestow the title soon….
They will save the teepees and the palace,
but first
The Sacrifice

Maybe his lordship did not bestow the title?





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 16, 2008, 04:43:51 PM
trio

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas. (1+2=3)
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.
(last line: what his Lordship's presence guarantees    4-1=3)

 

It sounds like whomever was holding Joran in jail was holding him to keep him from talking as he has dirt on his hands too.  Vandersloot may know the dirt and they were blackmailing each other one saying he wants a guarantee Joran will keep his mouth shut., etc.  j/b



A sacrifice will be made to spare the police;
to spare the teepees
Singing cards have lost their power
Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand

Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 16, 2008, 04:45:52 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy
Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House
Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house,
and so DirtyHand was discovered
But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings
He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous

He was discovered???? By whom?



Gods of the cowboys


I figured that much but who or what are they?(the gods) If he was discovered his identity is known.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 16, 2008, 04:58:08 PM
#  Checkme on June 17th, 2005 6:02 pm

Look for the blue (with grafiti) delivery truck getting impounded…

funny BTW that checkme says "delivery truck" in dutch a van is called bestelwagen=delivery truck


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on March 16, 2008, 05:01:32 PM
#  Checkme on June 17th, 2005 6:02 pm

Look for the blue (with grafiti) delivery truck getting impounded…

funny BTW that checkme says "delivery truck" in dutch a van is called bestelwagen=delivery truck

So Checkme is saying look for Lorenzo's van to be impounded?  There's that darn Lorenzo again, lol  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 16, 2008, 05:13:26 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy
Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House
Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house,
and so DirtyHand was discovered
But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings
He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous

He was discovered???? By whom?



Gods of the cowboys


I figured that much but who or what are they?(the gods) If he was discovered his identity is known.



think of it this way.........
http://www.nypost.com/seven/03122008/news/regionalnews/spitzer_to_resign_in_the_hour__sources_s_101629.htm





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 16, 2008, 05:17:29 PM
If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 16, 2008, 05:18:09 PM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy
Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House
Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house,
and so DirtyHand was discovered
But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings
He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous

He was discovered???? By whom?



Gods of the cowboys


I figured that much but who or what are they?(the gods) If he was discovered his identity is known.



think of it this way.........
http://www.nypost.com/seven/03122008/news/regionalnews/spitzer_to_resign_in_the_hour__sources_s_101629.htm



So media/camera's etc? like the one's recording the game?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 16, 2008, 05:19:42 PM
He walks in many circles
He walks in ALL houses


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 16, 2008, 05:20:13 PM
He is well known


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 16, 2008, 05:24:55 PM
He walks in many circles
He walks in ALL houses

Is good governance fully compatible with adherence to moral principles, or does it sometimes require their sacrifice? Philosophers throughout the ages have grappled with the problem of “dirty hands” that results from political leaders having to choose between unsatisfactory alternatives.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 16, 2008, 05:29:17 PM
#  Checkme on June 17th, 2005 6:02 pm

Look for the blue (with grafiti) delivery truck getting impounded…

funny BTW that checkme says "delivery truck" in dutch a van is called bestelwagen=delivery truck

So Checkme is saying look for Lorenzo's van to be impounded?  There's that darn Lorenzo again, lol  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Yep him again and all this talk about him on the 17th when Steve Croes was arrested maybe he is the 5th


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 16, 2008, 07:56:07 PM
The person that was arrested/detained right after Steve Croes is your 5th suspect.  Whoever that was...Simian's hints are right in line with this...as so many have said, when reading in context it is easy to see...once again...I will say it...we only have to deteremine who that person was that was arrested the same day as Steve Croes to know who the 5th suspect was.  It was right before they took Paulus in...there were more rumors about another person that day than day on the FP.  Those in Aruba were hearing things that we did not know about at the time.

Also, yes there are many dirty hands in this mess.  I have come to believe that the dirty hand reference is about several persons that are in on the corruption and cover up and each and every time Shango mentions them he could easily be talking about a different person. 


Question for thought.....Who are the messengers?


 

If you are wanting who is arrested/detained after Steve Croes, it is Palus Vandersloot.  j/b

 

There was an AB pulled in, but don't know just now when.  I am not home and have info on outside storage.  Anyway Adin Bikker is who that was, the best I can remimber. 
Jack B


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 16, 2008, 09:09:06 PM
Was Paulus a Judge or not?

Post by Anonymous on June 19th. 2005 below from *******…is this the first time we heard he failed? Up until then was he a Judge in training?

Borrowed from the NAH thread…posts from SS, *******, Lala's and texasmom…thanks!

Posts start here by ******* #455 and continue over the next few pages.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.440

++++

From *******…

I read he failed his exams not sure how correct that was,others say he learned of his failure right before May 29th 2005 but Im not sure about that either. PVDS when interviewed said he was not ready to be a Judge.
------------
I do not intend to point any fingers or acuse anyone, nevertheless for the sake of what is going on I will provide this information: Paul v/der Sloot failed a substancial part of his exams in the judge-in-training program (RAIO-opleiding in Dutch) . He was actually kicked out of the program the beginning of this year and cannot return, hence not become a full fledged judge. Considering his position and his career in the Dutch/Aruban justice system so far, this should have had a great impact on him. Although I truly hope that Paul is not involved and that Natalee will show up alive, it must be said that he was already in a ‘difficult’ position before his son being involved in this situation.

I hope someone picks up on this. I apologize for the anonimity.


Posted by: anonymous_OM | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 04:32
++++

www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/paul_van_der_sl_1.html

Van der Sloot, persistent lawyer with principles    (sorry, had to laugh)

The lawyer Paul van der Sloot, that is detained in Aruba in the Natalee Holloway affair is here mostly known for his 20-year fight against the building of a motorway around Boxtel.

Boxtel

Paul van der Sloot is indeed member of a brass band and he goes all out during the carnival, but in Aruba he is mostly known as the serious lawyer for whom the principles of justice always and everywhere comes in first place. 

There was a huge disbelief in Aruba when he was arrested for his alleged involvement in disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Boxtel had experienced him as someone who would always persevere and had a thorough manner of working. 

Paul van der Sloot fought twenty years long (from 1973 until 1993) with local residents against the construction of a southern motorway, that had to be build partly over the estate of the Van der Sloot family. Paul van der Sloot stood his ground and fought civil servants and politicians that had proposed and produced the faulty plans for the new motorway in the Cousil of State. The motorway came eventually but it was not laid through the scenic valuable territory anymore but further away. 

In his birthplace Boxtel, van der Sloot was criticized a lot because while he was fighting the developments of the new motorway,  the dangerous traffic was still led trough Boxel and this was causing accidents and consequently was costing the lives of many people.  Van der Sloot was seen as a fault-finder that to prevent the motorway from being build on part of his land, was willing to sacrifice the lives of the youth who attended the schools in the vicinity of the local dangerous streets. Van der Sloot said later on that the criticism hurt him deeply.

Tilburg

Van der Sloot (53) got his legal education at the University of Tilburg in the seventies. He co-founded the Legal Faculty Association Tilburg and also the faculty newspaper ‘Nondejure'. After he finished his studies he did not went to work for the government, but assisted citizens that had conflicts with the government.  It was in that period in Arnhem, where he met a woman Anita (teacher of Artistic Formation) and it was also there were Joran and Valentijn, two of his three sons, were born.

New job

In 1991 Paul van der Sloot thought it was the time for a new job and he found one in Aruba where he was appointed for five year as a lawyer for the Aruban government. The ministers there were not impressed with his stance  „I always first try to find a compromise. By simply prosecuting nobody gets wiser.  If the authorities do something wrong I will always admit that. You must never interpret the facts differently then what they are.  I am convinced that on the long run this will give better results“, According to Van der Sloot in an interview ten years ago in the Brabants Dagblad. 

After a while Van der Sloot got a different assigment: the government wanted him to only set up contracts. Van der Sloot considered going back to The Netherlands, but he liked the small scale of Aruba and as it appeared he had enough possibilities to continue with his career.  He became cabinets leader for the public ministry and gave classes of Administrative Law at the local university. 

Judge

Two years ago Van der Sloot Ditch got the opportunity to become a judge.  With his background that meant that he had follow a training course of three years.  During that training period, he was appointed as a substitute judge in the Antillean court.  Van der Sloot completed the training period of a year in the Netherlands recently but he has not conducted a court(hearing) yet.
++++


Paulus also states He is a Judge in June 2005....
PROCES-VERBAAL

We, Roland Ramiro TROMP and Clyde Anthony BURKE, respectively inspector and sergeant first class with the Korps Politie Aruba and attached to the Section Often Occurring Crimes, state the following.

On June 18th 2005 at approximately 18.30 hours, we interviewed as a witness the man who when asked for his name and details, stated to be, Paulus Antonius Petrus Johanna van der SLOOT born in the Netherlands on February 15th 1952, occupation judge (Joint Court) and living at ADDRESS REMOVED in Aruba for further information.

++++

http://www.carlolawoffice.com/attorneys/index.html

Paul A.P.J. van der Sloot, born in the Netherlands (1952), graduated from the University of Tilburg, the Netherlands (LL.M., 1979). Before going into private practice Mr. van der Sloot worked ten years in social legal aid in the Netherlands, four years in the Aruban Government, eight years in the public prosecution and three years as a judge. He was admitted to the bar in 2006. His practice focuses mainly on administrative law and mediation.

Languages: Dutch, English, German, French and Papiamento.


He is still claiming that he was a judge.
++++

*******...Have We ever learned the reason why Paulus did not make Judge? Seems He has lots of so called friends I just can't imagine why He didn't make it....
   
I read he failed his exams not sure how correct that was,others say he learned of his failure right before May 29th 2005 but Im not sure about that either. PVDS when interviewed said he was not ready to be a Judge.
------------
I do not intend to point any fingers or acuse anyone, nevertheless for the sake of what is going on I will provide this information: Paul v/der Sloot failed a substancial part of his exams in the judge-in-training program (RAIO-opleiding in Dutch) . He was actually kicked out of the program the beginning of this year and cannot return, hence not become a full fledged judge. Considering his position and his career in the Dutch/Aruban justice system so far, this should have had a great impact on him. Although I truly hope that Paul is not involved and that Natalee will show up alive, it must be said that he was already in a ‘difficult’ position before his son being involved in this situation.
 
I hope someone picks up on this. I apologize for the anonimity.
Posted by: anonymous_OM | Sunday, June 19, 2005 at 04:32
------------------------------------------
Hello All...Geraldo is in Aruba. He interviewed the judicial minister today who cleared up that Paul Van Der Sloot was a failed judge in training. He failed the test in Holland and the week prior to Natalee's disapearance Paul was in to see the judicial minister asking for a job. Paul was out of work. The judicial minister also told Geraldo that he thought Paul was arrested to put pressure on his son to talk. We get bits and pieces from the officials but this was more info than I have heard from any of officials.

Posted by: Jacque | Saturday, June 25, 2005 at 06:22 PM
-------------------------------------------
And yet, this failed judge in training has the power to bring an entire island to its knees???  Interesting balance of power there...the judge wannabe is ruler over all the real judges, polis and citizens.
   
As indicated in the posts that ******* cited above THERE IS MORE to the fact that PVDS is not a Judge, not just "failing a test".  I've read it many times since the case began and it seems that every time I need the text, I can't find it.
 
"Required recommendation" of other judges keeps coming to mind.  I have saved so much of my information outside of my hard drive (just in case) that I can't put my hands on it right now.  I was able to find these today, that basically say what I have.  Other than what it says, I'd also read there were concerns about "questionable decisions" he'd made as a substitute judge.

http://www.exposetheleft.com/2005/06/22/1767/
   
ORANJESTAD - We think it is about time to correct the false information that is constantly being published and aired, especially by the international (US) media, that Paul van der Sloot, father of Joran van der Sloot, is a judge in the Aruba jusicial system.

This is absolutely false and according to information that we have, he was never a Judge.

In 2003, Paul van der Sloot became a deputy judge as part of his formation to become a judge. As such he followed training as his wish was to one day become a Judge in the Common Court of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba. He functioned as a deputy Judge, but always under supervision of an established Judge. Paul van der Sloot was a deputy judge until March 2004.

In March 2004 Paul van der Sloot traveled to Holland for a year and when he returned to Aruba in March 2005 he did not receive the required recommendation to become a Judge.

The results of his training in Holland were not sufficient to become a Judge, and he was notified by the President of the Common Court of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba that he cannot function as a judge and has to look for another function.

We know for a fact that Paul van der Sloot did not function as a Judge since March 2004, and when he functioned as a deputy Judge before that time, it was always under supervision of an established Judge of the Common Court of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba.

We think that for the sake of correctness and objective news distribution, the media, and especially US media such as CNN and Fox News must stop sensacionalizing the entire Holloway drama and quit giving false information to the international public.
Content © A.M. Digital 2005

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.phpt=39575&page=2

http://scaredmonkeys.com/

On 7-1 “Hasibokos” reported, “In March 2004 Paulus van der Sloot traveled to Holland for a year and when he returned to Aruba in March 2005 he did not receive the required recommendation to become a Judge. The results of his training in Holland were not sufficient to become a Judge, and he was notified by the President of the Common Court of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba that he cannot function as a judge and has to look for another function.”





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 16, 2008, 09:49:36 PM
Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not.

The fallen judge and the singing card (DirtyHand) are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty.
Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak (PVDS), you still have DirtyHand.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks (something he's not) often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders


playing cards (per Shango)-not talking about Poker:
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 16, 2008, 10:01:29 PM
AHHH!!!...But they told us that you could not lie as a suspect!!!!

PROCES VERBAAL

We, Roland Ramiro TROMP and Clyde Anthony Burke, respectively inspector and sergeant first class, with the Korps Politie Aruba and attached to the section Often Occurring Crime District 2, state the following.

On June 23rd 2005, at approximately 14.30 hours, as a suspect, a man was interviewed who stated his name was: Paulus Antonius Petrus Johanna van der SLOOT, born in the Netherlands on February 15th 1952, judge (common court)  and living at XXXXXXXX number XX on Aruba.

Before the interview the suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT was informed that he was under no obligation to answer.

The suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT  has asked if his council Mr. A. SWAEN could be present at this interview and this was also requested by his council. This request was denied. His statement in dutch was transcribed by us, the reporting officers and goes as follows:



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on March 16, 2008, 10:03:48 PM
AHHH!!!...But they told us that you could not lie as a suspect!!!!

PROCES VERBAAL

We, Roland Ramiro TROMP and Clyde Anthony Burke, respectively inspector and sergeant first class, with the Korps Politie Aruba and attached to the section Often Occurring Crime District 2, state the following.

On June 23rd 2005, at approximately 14.30 hours, as a suspect, a man was interviewed who stated his name was: Paulus Antonius Petrus Johanna van der SLOOT, born in the Netherlands on February 15th 1952, judge (common court)  and living at XXXXXXXX number XX on Aruba.

Before the interview the suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT was informed that he was under no obligation to answer.

The suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT  has asked if his council Mr. A. SWAEN could be present at this interview and this was also requested by his council. This request was denied. His statement in dutch was transcribed by us, the reporting officers and goes as follows:


Evidently if You Are Dirtyhand You can! 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 16, 2008, 10:08:17 PM
There was an AB pulled in, but don't know just now when.  I am not home and have info on outside storage.  Anyway Adin Bikker is who that was, the best I can remimber. 

I thought "AB" was early misinterpretation of Freddy's name?

his last name/Arambatzis was released verbally at first,
rather than in writing

the listener heard Aaron Batsis = AB

anyone else remember this?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 16, 2008, 10:16:52 PM
There was an AB pulled in, but don't know just now when.  I am not home and have info on outside storage.  Anyway Adin Bikker is who that was, the best I can remimber. 

I thought "AB" was early misinterpretation of Freddy's name?

his last name/Arambatzis was released verbally at first,
rather than in writing

the listener heard Aaron Batsis = AB

anyone else remember this?



Hi Finn...Yes...Lala's and I have both posted the transcript, somewhere in the thread...LOL

Remember it started as E.B. I saw one yesterday, Eduardo Boekhart, that I want to check out.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 16, 2008, 10:20:21 PM
AHHH!!!...But they told us that you could not lie as a suspect!!!!

PROCES VERBAAL

We, Roland Ramiro TROMP and Clyde Anthony Burke, respectively inspector and sergeant first class, with the Korps Politie Aruba and attached to the section Often Occurring Crime District 2, state the following.

On June 23rd 2005, at approximately 14.30 hours, as a suspect, a man was interviewed who stated his name was: Paulus Antonius Petrus Johanna van der SLOOT, born in the Netherlands on February 15th 1952, judge (common court)  and living at XXXXXXXX number XX on Aruba.

Before the interview the suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT was informed that he was under no obligation to answer.

The suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT  has asked if his council Mr. A. SWAEN could be present at this interview and this was also requested by his council. This request was denied. His statement in dutch was transcribed by us, the reporting officers and goes as follows:


Evidently if You Are Dirtyhand You can! 


But what if he still was a Judge? And the 'fallen judge' came from the meeting with Rudy...I think this was around 6/17 IIRC.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 16, 2008, 10:40:06 PM
if this is the real simian it would be pretty clear who the babylonians are
anybody know if this is a genuine post?

Simian on June 30th, 2005 12:24 pm

If the Picaros took the girl then why haven’t they radioed in? They have an agenda and they always prove their point.

The Babylonians still have the boy and the Hindus pinched. The Hindus and the boy met again yesterday. The boy fell apart. Another patch is woven. There are no Picaros here, only a boy. So do the Babylonians think.

A slap in the face did the Babylonians receive yesterday from the ones who own the block and the hammer. The boy can recieve the elder. Ha! Their words will be committed to magnet.

The elder is not a capo in the Palace. The palace servants all think he is a failure, but he sure knows his way around. He did break one gate already.


JE...according to the list of 'real Simian posts' it is.

Here are the links...

Simian link
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1194.0

Links to the missing Simian posts…169-179

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.940
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.960




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 16, 2008, 10:44:06 PM
I just found this in my notes

Is there any chance van der Stratten is Shango?

Posted by: ustt | Thursday, December 22, 2005 at 12:08 AM

You can't be serious.
My God, the man is a 75 year old grandfather, and believe me, poetry is not his thing. His wife is a wonderful
artist, though, and his daughter-in-law writes children's books.

Posted by: Scubajap | Thursday, December 22, 2005 at 12:13 AM


Why would Scubajap not know that van der Straten was an artist also?  She knew about his family...how could she have missed that little detail?

LOL...hardly 75 years old either...maybe there is two!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on March 17, 2008, 05:30:51 AM
There was an AB pulled in, but don't know just now when.  I am not home and have info on outside storage.  Anyway Adin Bikker is who that was, the best I can remimber. 

I thought "AB" was early misinterpretation of Freddy's name?

his last name/Arambatzis was released verbally at first,
rather than in writing

the listener heard Aaron Batsis = AB

anyone else remember this?



Hi Finn...Yes...Lala's and I have both posted the transcript, somewhere in the thread...LOL

Remember it started as E.B. I saw one yesterday, Eduardo Boekhart, that I want to check out.


Going from memory : there was an "AB" taken in for questioning and some reports identified it as an A Bikker. (Not sure of first name). There was a close relative of his posting at RWV at the time and they vehemently denied that this was the person.  Mr Bikker was a respectable person probably in his 30s and held a good job.
Much later Freddy was identified as being the AB questioned.

Hey Mum - that is a bonzer Easter Bonnet you are wearing! 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 05:48:38 AM
There was an AB pulled in, but don't know just now when.  I am not home and have info on outside storage.  Anyway Adin Bikker is who that was, the best I can remimber. 

I thought "AB" was early misinterpretation of Freddy's name?

his last name/Arambatzis was released verbally at first,
rather than in writing

the listener heard Aaron Batsis = AB

anyone else remember this?



Hi Finn...Yes...Lala's and I have both posted the transcript, somewhere in the thread...LOL

Remember it started as E.B. I saw one yesterday, Eduardo Boekhart, that I want to check out.


Going from memory : there was an "AB" taken in for questioning and some reports identified it as an A Bikker. (Not sure of first name). There was a close relative of his posting at RWV at the time and they vehemently denied that this was the person.  Mr Bikker was a respectable person probably in his 30s and held a good job.
Much later Freddy was identified as being the AB questioned.

Hey Mum - that is a bonzer Easter Bonnet you are wearing! 

G'day Tib...I am back on page 168 working on Lala's index and hoped to catch you. LOL on my Bonnet, but what about those eyes?

A. Bikker would be who jackb was talking about and I believe he mentioned a while back a business type guy dressed maybe in a suit. Pretty sure that was in April 2006...maybe he has more.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on March 17, 2008, 06:15:38 AM
There was an AB pulled in, but don't know just now when.  I am not home and have info on outside storage.  Anyway Adin Bikker is who that was, the best I can remimber. 

I thought "AB" was early misinterpretation of Freddy's name?

his last name/Arambatzis was released verbally at first,
rather than in writing

the listener heard Aaron Batsis = AB

anyone else remember this?



Hi Finn...Yes...Lala's and I have both posted the transcript, somewhere in the thread...LOL

Remember it started as E.B. I saw one yesterday, Eduardo Boekhart, that I want to check out.


Going from memory : there was an "AB" taken in for questioning and some reports identified it as an A Bikker. (Not sure of first name). There was a close relative of his posting at RWV at the time and they vehemently denied that this was the person.  Mr Bikker was a respectable person probably in his 30s and held a good job.
Much later Freddy was identified as being the AB questioned.

Hey Mum - that is a bonzer Easter Bonnet you are wearing! 

G'day Tib...I am back on page 168 working on Lala's index and hoped to catch you. LOL on my Bonnet, but what about those eyes?

A. Bikker would be who jackb was talking about and I believe he mentioned a while back a business type guy dressed maybe in a suit. Pretty sure that was in April 2006...maybe he has more.

Name :  Andin Bikker.

Link to a pic (not the one I remember) 

http://arubadirtypolice.blogspot.com/2006/04/andin-bikker.html

Link to more information

http://pipl.com/directory/people/Andin/Bikker

Too late for me to trawl through RWV now for more information, and it would be pointless as this man is not involved - as far as we know.

Yes I love the eyes Mum.  Will get that email off to you tomorrow - been away from home a lot lately but hoping for a quiet Easter.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 06:44:55 AM
Simian said that he makes a living on the island......and he had information on the PVDS interrogations, etc......only referring to him by name after he was relieved and it became apparent that it would get into the media.....so the jealous boyfriend stuff, etc was a way to keep the maze stuff hidden-to preserve babylon.....he actually posted that he knows the babylonians and he shares the concern over wampum

but if a body had been recovered, then there was a cover story, motive, forensics, etc

Shango apparently didn't share this concern

Two stories…Simian and Mirian were trying to tell us that someone else was involved…Mirian was still posting this about the famous pic in mid July.

Also it was posted that if the loot was not found by June 28th. it would not be found…so why would Mirian keep on posting about the 5th.?

Shango…not concerned…just confusing…LOL

# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:14 pm
Sim -I think your reaching

# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:15 pm
How could a local MT boyfriend be involved. The FBI would have cracked this case already through phone records and the internet. I don’t believe this. This is yet ANOTHER rumor!

# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:16 pm
He had to be let go.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 07:07:13 AM
Wow, this thread is  hopping!

According to the  Kalpoes' "Van der Sloot trusts Freddy with his life."  That certainly sounds like what Joran said about "Daury".  I am convinced Freddy has much to do  with this story.   He threw  Joran to the   wolves by telling about what Joran told him on the 30th, and Joran meekly said Freddy must have misunderstood him, or remembered the date wrong.   No anger, no feelings of betrayal.

Also, Shango had said if Natalee  was not found by a particular day, that she would never be found.  I wonder how he knew this, as it looks like he was right.  Then he says "light the fires" in his postings, and I can't help but wonder if her body was incinerated either at the hospital or in a fire on that holiday that occured around that time that they all burn things. 

Just some random thoughts.


LOL...this is the thread for random thoughts...

I think too that Joran makes too much of Freddy getting dates wrong, only speaking pap. Saying he was worried because he was Venezuelan...more garbage IMO

He was only 17. He worshipped the #1 Pimp and also his best friend.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 17, 2008, 07:08:08 AM
consecutive posts:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover (5th suspect) needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05. (first use of name)
He had been brought in for questioning that day


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 07:13:15 AM
I have a question for all those who have worked so hard to decipher the Simian posts.  If we feel pretty confident the Simian's info came from ALE should we trust anything he/she posted that wasn't verified by the press releases?  I mean, I never felt like ALE was very upfront about anything.  Would it make sense for someone connected to ALE to give out this kind of info when everyone knew about the blogs and ALE could read them as well?

I'm just asking because at one point this thing about the fifth suspect would seem to be about whoever ALE wanted to be guilty, but could never prove it.  After that they went on to arrest many others that were never held for very long.  If ALE was seriously trying to prove that the "5th" suspect was guilty they didn't seem to be doing much to keep him locked up.

Sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone, but this thought has been nagging at me for a while now.

LOL...not offended...I see your point, but we have Dave's theory on Lorenzo and Jacob's response. And Freddy...Jossy said he was detained early in the case and the media was not informed. The press reported he was let quietly out the back door on his release, while the Kalpoes came out the front with all the cameras flashing.

Things that make you go hmmmm!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 07:28:24 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:26 pm
Simian, his lordship did not bring the expected key
the door never existed
Eden is distant

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:33 pm
Simian, His Lordship did not bring the key found in the car, it did not exist
The arawaks can’t open the door
Hope lies with the cowbous,
but the posse was too late
Eden is still distant

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks
The way is clouded for the sacrifice
Rules have changed, so has the maze
the way is lost for the pioneers who went to live among the indians
The flames are growing
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police;
to spare the teepees
Singing cards have lost their power
Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand
His lordship will bestow the title soon….
They will save the teepees and the palace,
but first
The Sacrifice

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:43 pm
Meetings with his lordship will reveal several mysteries
the sacrifice also knows the fires have been lit

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist.
doors to eden remain closed.
The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty.
Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.
If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons.
DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon.
Better to prepare the sacrifice quickly so the cowboys go home
….without the loot

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:34 pm
the struggle between the babylonians and the arawaks still remains hidden
the arawaks awaited the key
his lordship said no
the door to eden remains closed
they are preparing the fire

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:56 pm
The Simian knows his Lordship did not have a key to open the door to eden
the answer lies with the Arawak Nation


Any ideas on who 'his Lordship' is?

Oduber
Rudy Croes
The Govenor General



http://scaredmonkeys.com/index.php?s=posner+video

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!


His Lordship sounds like a Judge in these posts. The key being DNA.

Judge Smid is the expert on money laundering...article posted yesterday in the NAH thread.

I have seen Judges called His Lordship, also Governors and then we have Posner.

What about Rudy?...He is the Minister (Lord) of the Judges.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 17, 2008, 07:44:06 AM
There was an AB pulled in, but don't know just now when.  I am not home and have info on outside storage.  Anyway Adin Bikker is who that was, the best I can remimber. 

I thought "AB" was early misinterpretation of Freddy's name?

his last name/Arambatzis was released verbally at first,
rather than in writing

the listener heard Aaron Batsis = AB

anyone else remember this?


  It is Adin Bikker.  I am still not home, but have a picture of him and his father (or boyfriend) or whatever.  They play golf.  He wears glasses, has slope shoulders and looks a bit strange, not quite nerdy, but sort of strange.  The dude with him is older than he is.  I believe the dude with him is some kind of coach or something.  I am not just where I can get hold of this info.  They may have the picture on BFN in their archives.   Jack blue


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 07:54:46 AM
So who is his lordship?  Depends on what you think babylon means...if you think it means gamblers...as Simian said...then it is different answer from what it would be if babylon means the Dutch...so who is it? Anyone want to venture a guess....by offering a name?

Well in fitting with my interpretation of what Babylon means i would venture to say his lordship might be Oduber?




Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Simian has an IQ of 149 as measured by Gringos.
All of the words of the cohorts of the boy and the Hindus have been hi-jacked. For weeks already. The confrontation of yesterday was brutal. More lies woven. The boy has to fall apart. The Babylonians have their swords ready
North American special interests have organized a human chain of prayers in Aruba. From the Wyndham to the Holiday Inn. Are afraid for their multi-million dollar investments? The Simian heard from the Gringos say they are doing OK. The bread won’t be taken from them. They will just sit this one out.


Columbo what was the date of that simian post?

IIRC June 30th. around 2 or 3 in the afternoon, but I bet you have already found it by now...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 17, 2008, 07:55:16 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:26 pm
Simian, his lordship did not bring the expected key
the door never existed
Eden is distant

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:33 pm
Simian, His Lordship did not bring the key found in the car, it did not exist
The arawaks can’t open the door
Hope lies with the cowbous,
but the posse was too late
Eden is still distant

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks
The way is clouded for the sacrifice
Rules have changed, so has the maze
the way is lost for the pioneers who went to live among the indians
The flames are growing
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police;
to spare the teepees
Singing cards have lost their power
Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand
His lordship will bestow the title soon….
They will save the teepees and the palace,
but first
The Sacrifice

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:43 pm
Meetings with his lordship will reveal several mysteries
the sacrifice also knows the fires have been lit

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist.
doors to eden remain closed.
The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty.
Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.
If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons.
DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon.
Better to prepare the sacrifice quickly so the cowboys go home
….without the loot

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:34 pm
the struggle between the babylonians and the arawaks still remains hidden
the arawaks awaited the key
his lordship said no
the door to eden remains closed
they are preparing the fire

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:56 pm
The Simian knows his Lordship did not have a key to open the door to eden
the answer lies with the Arawak Nation


Any ideas on who 'his Lordship' is?

Oduber
Rudy Croes
The Govenor General



http://scaredmonkeys.com/index.php?s=posner+video

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!


His Lordship sounds like a Judge in these posts. The key being DNA.

Judge Smid is the expert on money laundering...article posted yesterday in the NAH thread.

I have seen Judges called His Lordship, also Governors and then we have Posner.

What about Rudy?...He is the Minister (Lord) of the Judges.

Seems that I remember that dirtyhand is the key.  His lordship never brought the key back.
Perhaps he was attempting to have Guido or some of the ones who ran to the NL brought back and could not as someone thwarted that.  A few of them took off.  I believe GCV took off too.  There was this bartender at C&C, Guido, GCV, The Gottenbos' and Posner all went somewhere.  But dirtyhand is the key and the key was never brought back as it never existed (tight alibi?)  The partents (prominent citizens) gave GCV a tight alibi that could not be broken by saying (a lie) he was with them all evening or something to that effect.  They have so much stuff on people through those security videos, most likely, that many are afraid to go after them.  I have it in my head, gut and pictures figured out that GVC did the final death blow to her by GSW.  Everyone who has kept up with this case knows the LE has the case solved and has for three years since June of 05, but there has got to be a way for the US to get their azzes since they are not doing their job  by one of ours.  We prosecute ours if one of theirs is killed here.  Those effers will pay.  Those sorry azzed judges and LE are not fit to lead their own families and suck on wieners for a hobby.  They reek of filth.  Even allowing, in the NL, for filthy people to have sex in public restrooms where families have to go, even filthy perv sex that is an abomination to God.  They are Godless and hate anything or anyone who wants a Godly relationship.  They are a DISGRACE to the world.  Aruba and the NL.   Jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 08:13:54 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
Who knows what song the elder will sing (or should we say fallen judge)

[which song..........]
 

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl
the arawaks new the girl
and the babylonians still know the girl

I think by the song he means the statements that PVDS was going to make
He waived his right not to testify or implicate his own son
if PVDS lies he sings a poisoned song

Posted this before, but not sure if you were here then, then legal checkmate if LVR is indeed his son and Joran's half brother. They do not have to testify against each other...A body would be needed.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 17, 2008, 08:19:35 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
Who knows what song the elder will sing (or should we say fallen judge)

[which song..........]
 

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl
the arawaks new the girl
and the babylonians still know the girl

I think by the song he means the statements that PVDS was going to make
He waived his right not to testify or implicate his own son
if PVDS lies he sings a poisoned song

Posted this before, but not sure if you were here then, then legal checkmate if LVR is indeed his son and Joran's half brother. They do not have to testify against each other...A body would be needed.

I believe they have one if they go get it, that is if they have not already.  jackb


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 08:22:05 AM
The person that was arrested/detained right after Steve Croes is your 5th suspect.  Whoever that was...Simian's hints are right in line with this...as so many have said, when reading in context it is easy to see...once again...I will say it...we only have to deteremine who that person was that was arrested the same day as Steve Croes to know who the 5th suspect was.  It was right before they took Paulus in...there were more rumors about another person that day than day on the FP.  Those in Aruba were hearing things that we did not know about at the time.

Also, yes there are many dirty hands in this mess.  I have come to believe that the dirty hand reference is about several persons that are in on the corruption and cover up and each and every time Shango mentions them he could easily be talking about a different person. 


Question for thought.....Who are the messengers?


Had always thought the messengers were the Press. Should be fairly easy to affirm or deny by what time he says he has to feed them.

If it's midnight...I say no...more homework!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 08:30:07 AM
OOOPS i made a mistake it should read

Name: Steve Croes
Date: 21 June 2005 / 13:00
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiato: Shaniro Kelly / Clyde Burke
Description: interrogation of a suspect

Responsive to Request 41

Name: Jorge Porras Sanches
Date: 21 June 2005 / 14:20
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: Juan Boezem / Johny Erasmus
Description: witness statement

Srry all got the lines mixed up ::MonkeyNoNo::


LOL....now I have a nice file on Sanches/Sanchez!!!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Knowing how many people were questioned that had something to do with tennis leads one to believe there is a lot of smoke concerning if or when Joran was at the racquet club and did he have a tennis lesson that day or was it all a ruse?  ALE was trying to fit the pieces together...they were just short a few of the vital pieces at the time. 

another question for thought...Why did ALE spend so much time questioning the people at the racquet club?

I have all the Sanches/Sanchez posts together...thanks to JE...LOL

Maybe Caps can give us more info on the one Sanches and his mother he found and on the Club. Their website looks like the Club has been totally renovated.

When I get the Racquet Club info together I may put it all together in it's own thread, maybe others that don't Tango have info they could add.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 08:59:29 AM
the sumerians:

The significance of the cedars of Lebanon to the history of man are traced to the very earliest written records, that of the Sumerians in the third millennium BC

http://www.intelligence.org.il/Eng/bu/hizbullah/pb/app14.htm

Venezuela

Venezuela, and its neighboring island, Aruba, have long had a well established drug trafficking, drug smuggling, and money laundering network, which had been created in the early 70s by the

Cosa Nostra’s Cuntrera-Caruana family. [175]   In the 1990s, the Aruba-based Mansur family, of Lebanese descent, took over the network, adding cigarette smuggling to their operations.  According to U.S. court documents from March 2001,“Much of the proceeds garnered by the Mansur brothers went to Hizballah.” [176]

and

http://www.tobacco.org/articles/country/aruba/

Intro:

[This reprise of a part of the CPI report contains graphics of some of the documents--gb]

The chief purveyors of tobacco through Colombia's "backdoor ports" were two powerful Aruba families by the names of Mansur and Harms.

In August 1994, the United States indicted cousins Eric and Alex Mansur along with 52 others allegedly involved in a massive drug-money laundering enterprise. The investigation, dubbed Operation Golden Trash, targeted an alleged conspiracy that used narco dollars to purchase cigarettes, alcohol and household electronics, which were sold to individuals and businesses in Colombia. The proceeds flowed to cocaine barons.

could the Mansur family have anything to do with the sumerians in the posts?

If too far fetched let me know i can take it LOL



Some believe the Mansurs relate to these posts more directly

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians do not like the Babylonian intrusion.
The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….

judicial feat (fi'-at)?

COLUMBO may be right on this one...LOL

JE...Dave, Beth and Jug totally trust Jossy, but he is not the only member of the Mansur family.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 17, 2008, 09:02:58 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:26 pm
Simian, his lordship did not bring the expected key
the door never existed
Eden is distant

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:33 pm
Simian, His Lordship did not bring the key found in the car, it did not exist
The arawaks can’t open the door
Hope lies with the cowbous,
but the posse was too late
Eden is still distant

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks
The way is clouded for the sacrifice
Rules have changed, so has the maze
the way is lost for the pioneers who went to live among the indians
The flames are growing
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police;
to spare the teepees
Singing cards have lost their power
Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand
His lordship will bestow the title soon….
They will save the teepees and the palace,
but first
The Sacrifice

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:43 pm
Meetings with his lordship will reveal several mysteries
the sacrifice also knows the fires have been lit

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist.
doors to eden remain closed.
The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty.
Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.
If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons.
DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon.
Better to prepare the sacrifice quickly so the cowboys go home
….without the loot

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:34 pm
the struggle between the babylonians and the arawaks still remains hidden
the arawaks awaited the key
his lordship said no
the door to eden remains closed
they are preparing the fire

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:56 pm
The Simian knows his Lordship did not have a key to open the door to eden
the answer lies with the Arawak Nation


Any ideas on who 'his Lordship' is?

Oduber
Rudy Croes
The Govenor General



http://scaredmonkeys.com/index.php?s=posner+video

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!


His Lordship sounds like a Judge in these posts. The key being DNA.

Judge Smid is the expert on money laundering...article posted yesterday in the NAH thread.

I have seen Judges called His Lordship, also Governors and then we have Posner.

What about Rudy?...He is the Minister (Lord) of the Judges.
 

If you arHis Lordship sounds like a Judge in these posts. The key being DNA.

Judge Smid is the expert on money laundering...article posted yesterday in the NAH thread.

I have seen Judges called His Lordship, also Governors and then we have Posner.

What about Rudy?...He is the Minister (Lord) of the Judges.   quote from Jack b
 
 
If you are going to quote me give me credit:    Jack b



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 09:05:26 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun

There was a meeting on june 28th between Croes, Donner(dutch justice minister) and Pechtold(dutch minister of kingdom relations) in curacao. During this meeting croes asked the dutch ministers for assistance in rectifying the aruban image that was painted in the US media. The bad image was harming arubas tourist industry. (wampum)
This would also tie in nicely to the trio comment in the post
I still think that a judge fits "his lordship" best but....

can't figure out what either Croes or the judge that let PVDS and SGC walk have to do with this one....?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks
The way is clouded for the sacrifice
Rules have changed, so has the maze
the way is lost for the pioneers who went to live among the indians
The flames are growing
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police;
to spare the teepees
Singing cards have lost their power
Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand
His lordship will bestow the title soon….
They will save the teepees and the palace,
but first
The Sacrifice


Thanks JE...I followed the link and it said June 27th. 2005...Interesting!

Made the meeting info red as to stand out...

http://juridischdagblad.nl/content/view/1831/71/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 09:08:28 AM
LOL at jackb...Good Morning!

I'm still back on page 174 trying to catch up after 9 days...getting there!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 09:25:15 AM
the foundations will shake even harder if Arawak DirtyHand is revealed

But Jossy did reveal His Lordship, Posner, and I didn't hear much ado about that.

Interesting that the casino is listed under Posner's son's name, but I bet Paulus knew who was really running the show!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 09:31:36 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Did the babylonians like to make movies?
From the tears, a new river will spring forth….


Security videos??  From the Wyndham...owned by Riverol?  just thinking....
 

I seem to get that Shango is saying frome the pain a new era in governance will start.
Something good will eventually be gained from all of this.  Perhaps an outing of the crooks and oppressors.  That goes to show great things are accomplished by those for whom it was meant to be.  NH will have accomplished great things even in her death.  Eventually  those waters that have been bittered by the dutch and their filthiness will emerge and be cleansed by this new river.  Jack b

These videos are under control of the Beach Security owned by Geoffrey van cromvroits father who is not allowing them to be seen to protect Geoffrey????  Posner took his azz and ran to Chicago.  He has his copies and is probably not as good as the Cromvroits with the security videos and the manipulation of them.  Cromvroits daughter, as well, worked at the PD and could have seen her baby brother in some big azzed trouble and between she, cromvroit, Vanderstratten and Palus changed what they needed changing and have been covering ever since.  Vanderstratten and Cromvroit would protect their jobs and livlihood.  cromvroit would never be able to operate security again if his son was involved with a murder and it was to be found out.  Especially him working as Patrol, having keys and business security access.  It comes down to those three and Jacobs who is lazy and would kiss Vanderfstrattens behind if it meant he could skate until retirement.  Yes, those cops were destroying evidence as fast as people found it and turned it in.  By now I am beginning to get pissed at our State Department for not protecting the integrity of our citizens' rights., etc.  This country should pressure them and demand her be found and the rats dealth with.  Our country needs to stand up for her citizens and if she does not, then WE NEED To know why not.  Who is standing in the way.  Perhaps they are getting some Aruban spin off of perks.  This stuff has got to stop.  Jack Blue


Well said jackb...I totally agree and have a major problem with all the Arubans hopping in and out of the country easier than I can!

The State Department owe Beth and Dave answers...to heck with the 'bigger picture'!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 09:37:15 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Did the babylonians like to make movies?
From the tears, a new river will spring forth….


Security videos??  From the Wyndham...owned by Riverol?  just thinking....
 

I seem to get that Shango is saying frome the pain a new era in governance will start.
Something good will eventually be gained from all of this.  Perhaps an outing of the crooks and oppressors.  That goes to show great things are accomplished by those for whom it was meant to be.  NH will have accomplished great things even in her death.  Eventually  those waters that have been bittered by the dutch and their filthiness will emerge and be cleansed by this new river.  Jack b

These videos are under control of the Beach Security owned by Geoffrey van cromvroits father who is not allowing them to be seen to protect Geoffrey????  Posner took his azz and ran to Chicago.  He has his copies and is probably not as good as the Cromvroits with the security videos and the manipulation of them.  Cromvroits daughter, as well, worked at the PD and could have seen her baby brother in some big azzed trouble and between she, cromvroit, Vanderstratten and Palus changed what they needed changing and have been covering ever since.  Vanderstratten and Cromvroit would protect their jobs and livlihood.  cromvroit would never be able to operate security again if his son was involved with a murder and it was to be found out.  Especially him working as Patrol, having keys and business security access.  It comes down to those three and Jacobs who is lazy and would kiss Vanderfstrattens behind if it meant he could skate until retirement.  Yes, those cops were destroying evidence as fast as people found it and turned it in.  By now I am beginning to get pissed at our State Department for not protecting the integrity of our citizens' rights., etc.  This country should pressure them and demand her be found and the rats dealth with.  Our country needs to stand up for her citizens and if she does not, then WE NEED To know why not.  Who is standing in the way.  Perhaps they are getting some Aruban spin off of perks.  This stuff has got to stop.  Jack Blue

http://www.caribbeancourtofjustice.org/judges_pages/wit.html
The Honourable Mr. Justice Jacob Wit

Snip:
Mr. Justice Wit was appointed by Her Majesty Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands as Deputy Judge of the Rotterdam District Court in January 1984, Judge of the Rotterdam District Court in March 1985 and Judge of the Joint Court of Justice of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba on 1 October 1988. This Court consists of two Courts of First Instance (Netherlands Antilles, Aruba) and a Court of Appeal. Resident in Curaçao since 1986, from then to the present, Mr. Justice Wit has presided over or sat in the Court of Appeal, but mainly presided in the Courts of First Instan­ce over a wide range of cases, involving: civil law (contract, tort, property, succession), commercial and admiralty law, insurance, bankruptcy and (cross border) insolvency, company law and intellectual property, criminal law (serious crime, government corruption, international fraud, money laundering), military law, administrative law, constitutional law and international human rights law.

Snip:
Off the Bench, Mr. Justice Wit has served as Chairman of the Committee of Supervision of the Nether­lands Antilles' Prisons and Houses of Detention (1987-1991); Chairman of the Board of Discipline for Medical Doctors (1992-1995); President of the Military Court of the Nether­lands Antilles (1992-present); Chairman of the Judicial Working Groups on (a) Videoconfe­ren­cing in Court and (b) Code of Ethics for the Judiciary (2003-present); and Chairman of the Committee of Supervision of the Securi­ty Servi­ce of Aruba (2004-present). He has also been a member of the National Committee On Revising the Codes of Crimi­nal Procedure of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba (1987-1998); and Vice-President of the National Committee On Revi­sing the Crimi­nal Code of the Netherlands Antilles (2002-present).
Snip
 






Judge Wit has been around the halls of the palace a very long time.

I still wonder what authority he had in this case if he was appointed to the Caribbean Court of Justice on June 1st. 2005


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 17, 2008, 09:59:37 AM
There was an AB pulled in, but don't know just now when.  I am not home and have info on outside storage.  Anyway Adin Bikker is who that was, the best I can remimber. 

I thought "AB" was early misinterpretation of Freddy's name?

his last name/Arambatzis was released verbally at first,
rather than in writing

the listener heard Aaron Batsis = AB

anyone else remember this?


  It is Adin Bikker.  I am still not home, but have a picture of him and his father (or boyfriend) or whatever.  They play golf.  He wears glasses, has slope shoulders and looks a bit strange, not quite nerdy, but sort of strange.  The dude with him is older than he is.  I believe the dude with him is some kind of coach or something.  I am not just where I can get hold of this info.  They may have the picture on BFN in their archives.   Jack blue

I would like to see your info if you can find it...I am still waiting to see some type of press release that tells us this.  It has always been hard to pin down with Freddy and his last name in the mix.  Those in Aruba are the reason for all the misinformation...they let too many things just lay in hopes it would prevent anyone from asking the tough questions.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 17, 2008, 10:01:26 AM
the foundations will shake even harder if Arawak DirtyHand is revealed

But Jossy did reveal His Lordship, Posner, and I didn't hear much ado about that.

Interesting that the casino is listed under Posner's son's name, but I bet Paulus knew who was really running the show!

A clever method to circumvent laws regarding convicted criminals owning casinos.  How nice and convenient.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 10:07:07 AM
#  Checkme on June 17th, 2005 6:02 pm

Look for the blue (with grafiti) delivery truck getting impounded…

funny BTW that checkme says "delivery truck" in dutch a van is called bestelwagen=delivery truck


We have one of those 'delivery trucks'...without the graffiti of course!

Do you suppose that checkme is Dutch, or could they just be called that there as well?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 10:12:02 AM
the foundations will shake even harder if Arawak DirtyHand is revealed

But Jossy did reveal His Lordship, Posner, and I didn't hear much ado about that.

Interesting that the casino is listed under Posner's son's name, but I bet Paulus knew who was really running the show!

A clever method to circumvent laws regarding convicted criminals owning casinos.  How nice and convenient.


Good Morning Lala's...there was some discussion on the NAH thread about a week ago about his son and I just happened to see the details listed yesterday and realised that was how they got away with it...Still he should never have been allowed a work permit...oh wait he owns the place...he doesn't actually need to work!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 17, 2008, 10:27:17 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Did the babylonians like to make movies?
From the tears, a new river will spring forth….


Security videos??  From the Wyndham...owned by Riverol?  just thinking....
 

I seem to get that Shango is saying frome the pain a new era in governance will start.
Something good will eventually be gained from all of this.  Perhaps an outing of the crooks and oppressors.  That goes to show great things are accomplished by those for whom it was meant to be.  NH will have accomplished great things even in her death.  Eventually  those waters that have been bittered by the dutch and their filthiness will emerge and be cleansed by this new river.  Jack b

These videos are under control of the Beach Security owned by Geoffrey van cromvroits father who is not allowing them to be seen to protect Geoffrey????  Posner took his azz and ran to Chicago.  He has his copies and is probably not as good as the Cromvroits with the security videos and the manipulation of them.  Cromvroits daughter, as well, worked at the PD and could have seen her baby brother in some big azzed trouble and between she, cromvroit, Vanderstratten and Palus changed what they needed changing and have been covering ever since.  Vanderstratten and Cromvroit would protect their jobs and livlihood.  cromvroit would never be able to operate security again if his son was involved with a murder and it was to be found out.  Especially him working as Patrol, having keys and business security access.  It comes down to those three and Jacobs who is lazy and would kiss Vanderfstrattens behind if it meant he could skate until retirement.  Yes, those cops were destroying evidence as fast as people found it and turned it in.  By now I am beginning to get pissed at our State Department for not protecting the integrity of our citizens' rights., etc.  This country should pressure them and demand her be found and the rats dealth with.  Our country needs to stand up for her citizens and if she does not, then WE NEED To know why not.  Who is standing in the way.  Perhaps they are getting some Aruban spin off of perks.  This stuff has got to stop.  Jack Blue


Well said jackb...I totally agree and have a major problem with all the Arubans hopping in and out of the country easier than I can!

The State Department owe Beth and Dave answers...to heck with the 'bigger picture'!

If they know something then they should tell the family or they should be made to answer legally why the family and the deceased rights are not being protected.  They are hiding something.  If we can conclude this then they can and since they can they should act on it as it is eroding the confidence and security the Americans are paying through taxes to know we are being protected as best can be and what they are doing to do this.  If they let this piss-ant country get away with this without making then answer for it, then they will be under scrutiny for this.  It has been almost 3 years and they are telling us they cannot stand up for our citizens any better than this and they have billions to work with?  I say it is time for answers or someone is going to show where they are spending all this freaking money and on what.  They allowed our FBI's hands to be tied when dealing with this and thought it would pass.  I am NOT going to spend 3 years of my life on something and not get some kind of answer.  There are others as well.  Now, SOMEONE out there better start buttering OUR bread because we have buttered yours long e-freaking 'nuff and got nothing in return for it but silence.  By the looks of it there is a lot of committment to this and those in a position to better get some.  I am JUST a freaking 'bout mad at this freaking silent movie.   Jackb


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on March 17, 2008, 10:34:43 AM
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Did the babylonians like to make movies?
From the tears, a new river will spring forth….


Security videos??  From the Wyndham...owned by Riverol?  just thinking....
 

I seem to get that Shango is saying frome the pain a new era in governance will start.
Something good will eventually be gained from all of this.  Perhaps an outing of the crooks and oppressors.  That goes to show great things are accomplished by those for whom it was meant to be.  NH will have accomplished great things even in her death.  Eventually  those waters that have been bittered by the dutch and their filthiness will emerge and be cleansed by this new river.  Jack b

These videos are under control of the Beach Security owned by Geoffrey van cromvroits father who is not allowing them to be seen to protect Geoffrey????  Posner took his azz and ran to Chicago.  He has his copies and is probably not as good as the Cromvroits with the security videos and the manipulation of them.  Cromvroits daughter, as well, worked at the PD and could have seen her baby brother in some big azzed trouble and between she, cromvroit, Vanderstratten and Palus changed what they needed changing and have been covering ever since.  Vanderstratten and Cromvroit would protect their jobs and livlihood.  cromvroit would never be able to operate security again if his son was involved with a murder and it was to be found out.  Especially him working as Patrol, having keys and business security access.  It comes down to those three and Jacobs who is lazy and would kiss Vanderfstrattens behind if it meant he could skate until retirement.  Yes, those cops were destroying evidence as fast as people found it and turned it in.  By now I am beginning to get pissed at our State Department for not protecting the integrity of our citizens' rights., etc.  This country should pressure them and demand her be found and the rats dealth with.  Our country needs to stand up for her citizens and if she does not, then WE NEED To know why not.  Who is standing in the way.  Perhaps they are getting some Aruban spin off of perks.  This stuff has got to stop.  Jack Blue

http://www.caribbeancourtofjustice.org/judges_pages/wit.html
The Honourable Mr. Justice Jacob Wit

Snip:
Mr. Justice Wit was appointed by Her Majesty Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands as Deputy Judge of the Rotterdam District Court in January 1984, Judge of the Rotterdam District Court in March 1985 and Judge of the Joint Court of Justice of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba on 1 October 1988. This Court consists of two Courts of First Instance (Netherlands Antilles, Aruba) and a Court of Appeal. Resident in Curaçao since 1986, from then to the present, Mr. Justice Wit has presided over or sat in the Court of Appeal, but mainly presided in the Courts of First Instan­ce over a wide range of cases, involving: civil law (contract, tort, property, succession), commercial and admiralty law, insurance, bankruptcy and (cross border) insolvency, company law and intellectual property, criminal law (serious crime, government corruption, international fraud, money laundering), military law, administrative law, constitutional law and international human rights law.

Snip:
Off the Bench, Mr. Justice Wit has served as Chairman of the Committee of Supervision of the Nether­lands Antilles' Prisons and Houses of Detention (1987-1991); Chairman of the Board of Discipline for Medical Doctors (1992-1995); President of the Military Court of the Nether­lands Antilles (1992-present); Chairman of the Judicial Working Groups on (a) Videoconfe­ren­cing in Court and (b) Code of Ethics for the Judiciary (2003-present); and Chairman of the Committee of Supervision of the Securi­ty Servi­ce of Aruba (2004-present). He has also been a member of the National Committee On Revising the Codes of Crimi­nal Procedure of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba (1987-1998); and Vice-President of the National Committee On Revi­sing the Crimi­nal Code of the Netherlands Antilles (2002-present).
Snip
 






Judge Wit has been around the halls of the palace a very long time.

I still wonder what authority he had in this case if he was appointed to the Caribbean Court of Justice on June 1st. 2005
Mum, my thoughts on this are that his being on the Caribbean Court of Justice is in addition to his role in the Joint Court of Justice of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba.  I don't think he lost any authority by the appointment, just gained authority over more jurisdictions.  JMO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 17, 2008, 10:36:02 AM
SS did such a wonderful job last night with this that I just had to bring it over.  Mum, there could be some names here you might find in your many searches. Thanks SS!

From this statement, it appears that she knew Theodora van den Broek well and that Theodora was the widow of Mattijs Koppens. She also declared that the floor of her declared that the child had suffocated or drowned. Theodora further explained that the boy's name was Antonius.house in the spot where Theodora van den Broek had been sitting showed signs of childbirth. From these lines I concluded that Petrus had been born in the immediate proximity of the home of Catharina van den Heuvel and her husband Johannes de Weert sometime between eleven in the morning and two in the afternoon.

Next Theodora van den Broek said to Catharina van den Heuvel that she was going to Jenneke Vogels’ house where she did not arrive until five o’clock, according to the latter. Between the hours of two and three o’clock this mother must have been busy with the preparations of disposing of our patriarch Petrus, because, according to the statement of Arnoldus Merks, he found him that same day between three and four o’clock. Another argument could be that Petrus from two until three or four o’clock had been lying in the ditch.




Arnoldus Merks makes his discovery after following baby sounds coming from a ditch near the homes of Johannes de Weert and Martinus Leppers. When he got closer, he first discovered a little foot then the child, which was naked and covered with dirt, sand, and foliage.


http://www.vandersloot.com/vandersloothistory/english/default.htm



When Lourens Johannes van den Heuvel on July 15, 1808, around two o’clock in the afternoon learned that a child had drowned in the stream, he walked over there and retrieved the naked boy of about twelve years old from the water. He also learned that the boy was the son of Theodora van den Broek. Next, the neighbors took the boy to his home by wagon. Doctor A. De Roy, by request of the City Officials, made his way to the house of Theodora van den Broek and established that the boy had drowned in the water. The City Officials A. Lemmens, H. van der Sande, and H. van den Bosch also appeared at the house of Theodora van den Broek in Spoordonk, where they also declared that the child had suffocated or drowned. Theodora further explained that the boy's name was Antonius.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 17, 2008, 10:38:26 AM
A little information from Mum about the new AHATA board:

AHATA Elects A New Board Business      December 13th, 2007

Palm Beach – A new Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association board was elected during the recent AHATA General Assembly, held at the Radisson Aruba Resort & Casino.
The new officers of the board were elected from a slate of candidates presented by a nominating committee headed by General Manager Paul Gielen, Renaissance Aruba Resort, and independent consultant Jaap Beaujon.
The election process was overseen by Dr. Ryan Peterson of the Universidad di Aruba.
The new board of the Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association consists of the following eight members: Rick Zeolla, General Manager, Marriott Aruba Resort; Eduardo De Veer, Developer, Meta Corp; Scott Allen, General Manager, Hyatt Regency; Guillermo Valencia, General Manager Holiday Inn Sunspree Resort; Gary Jutz, General Manager, Radisson Aruba Resort & Casino; Matt Balcik, General Manager, Westin Aruba Resort; Peter Steinmetz, Director, Aruba Airport Authority; David Smith, VP Public Relations, Valero Aruba Refinery.
Two board candidates, Joe Najjar, General Manager, La Cabana Beach & Racquet Club and Andres Pichardo, Senior VP Sales and Marketing, Occidental Grand Aruba, remained available in case of seat vacancy on the board and were invited to attend all meetings effective immediately.
Rob Smith, President and CEO of the Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association reports the new board will conduct its first meeting this week, with hotelier Ewald Biemans, Bucuti Beach Resort & Tara Suites, as Chairman of the Board.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 10:43:06 AM
consecutive posts:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover (5th suspect) needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05. (first use of name)
He had been brought in for questioning that day


I'm a little confused about when Paulus actually became a suspect.

His 6/23 PV said witness, but his 6/25 said suspect from the beginning.

He was informed later during questioning on 6/25, that he was being detained and gave another statement. They are both listed under the same date.

So he wasn't really a suspect for the first statement, was he?

And I don't think we have one of those arrest notices in the Dr Phil files and I am pretty sure the page and sections are missing from the two previous witness statements and not his suspect statement.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 10:49:42 AM
LOL...Lala's...I'm totally lost on geneology, heck I can't spell, type or think anymore today, but I see texasmom is here...

Lala's...Thanks for bringing over those front page posts...it is the only way I get to read them lately!

Texasmom...I will check with Kermit when he visits and see if he recalls when all those new judges were bought in...sometime in 2005, but could have been 2006. I think he would have been meddling regardless!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 10:56:20 AM
From Tib…Thanks…

Name :  Andin Bikker.

Link to a pic (not the one I remember) 

http://arubadirtypolice.blogspot.com/2006/04/andin-bikker.html

Link to more information

http://pipl.com/directory/people/Andin/Bikker

Too late for me to trawl through RWV now for more information, and it would be pointless as this man is not involved - as far as we know.

++++

DIGICEL….Interesting! More at the link below

http://www.zoominfo.com/Search/PersonDetail.aspx?PersonID=255035420



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 11:01:53 AM
consecutive posts:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover (5th suspect) needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05. (first use of name)
He had been brought in for questioning that day


So we do agree that paulus was a judge in training until around 6/17/2005, right?

And if Paulus is the 5th. suspect I don't believe he was scorned by Natalee, so who scorned him.

And who were the friends that he was home with?

More questions...LOL...TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 11:07:37 AM
There was an AB pulled in, but don't know just now when.  I am not home and have info on outside storage.  Anyway Adin Bikker is who that was, the best I can remimber. 

I thought "AB" was early misinterpretation of Freddy's name?

his last name/Arambatzis was released verbally at first,
rather than in writing

the listener heard Aaron Batsis = AB

anyone else remember this?


  It is Adin Bikker.  I am still not home, but have a picture of him and his father (or boyfriend) or whatever.  They play golf.  He wears glasses, has slope shoulders and looks a bit strange, not quite nerdy, but sort of strange.  The dude with him is older than he is.  I believe the dude with him is some kind of coach or something.  I am not just where I can get hold of this info.  They may have the picture on BFN in their archives.   Jack blue

Is this the pic that you are talking about from getagrip's site? Tibro posted the link this morning.

http://arubadirtypolice.blogspot.com/2006/04/andin-bikker.html


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 11:14:37 AM
Interesting thought about bringing someone back, jackb…also Max Arends, Darwin Dubero and I believe that Max Arendz is in Holland now as well

Quote from this morning by jackb

Seems that I remember that dirtyhand is the key.  His lordship never brought the key back.Perhaps he was attempting to have Guido or some of the ones who ran to the NL brought back and could not as someone thwarted that.  A few of them took off.  I believe GCV took off too.  There was this bartender at C&C, Guido, GCV, The Gottenbos' and Posner all went somewhere.  But dirtyhand is the key and the key was never brought back as it never existed (tight alibi?)  The partents (prominent citizens) gave GCV a tight alibi that could not be broken by saying (a lie) he was with them all evening or something to that effect.  They have so much stuff on people through those security videos, most likely, that many are afraid to go after them.  I have it in my head, gut and pictures figured out that GVC did the final death blow to her by GSW.  Everyone who has kept up with this case knows the LE has the case solved and has for three years since June of 05, but there has got to be a way for the US to get their azzes since they are not doing their job  by one of ours.  We prosecute ours if one of theirs is killed here.  Those effers will pay.  Those sorry azzed judges and LE are not fit to lead their own families and suck on wieners for a hobby.  They reek of filth.  Even allowing, in the NL, for filthy people to have sex in public restrooms where families have to go, even filthy perv sex that is an abomination to God.  They are Godless and hate anything or anyone who wants a Godly relationship.  They are a DISGRACE to the world.  Aruba and the NL.   Jack b

   





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 11:27:28 AM
This was posted over in the NAH thread yesterday by Truthseeker. I thought it interesting that he was back in Aruba September 1st 2005.

September 1, 2005

Son minister gets fined for threat
 ORANJESTAD - The son of Minister Candelario 'Booshi' Wever (MEP) of Health and Environment, Guido "Inti" yesterday after a payment of a fine of 1750 florin vacant.  He was since Saturday, because of the threat Thijzen family.
 There has been a long conflict between supporters of OLA, including the number two on the list Danny van der Linde, and the family Wever.  This was partly with letters sent in the ochtendkranten out.  Van der Linde and others did declaration Friday because of threats against the son of Minister Wever.  The young man was then arrested by the police and interrogated, but could even then.
 When there again Saturday there would be threat Wever junior arrested and detained.  Gisterochtend he was after paying the fine to free feet.  According to his lawyer Anthony Carlo wanted the young man bakkeleien prefer not on the substance of the conflict.  "He should be here on a number of things Aruba regulate shortly before he again goes back to Cuba, where he studied dentistry."

 According to the ministerszoon would not have threat: "I think the public prosecutor wishes to make clear that it will be hard act against threats in political campaigns.  Had the same fact in a different context, it was probably lighter than punished. "Moreover, Minister Wever complaint against Van der Linde, because making a false declaration.  (Amigoe)




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 11:40:32 AM
All caught up!...LOL

Caps...I can't find your post right now, but it went like this...

Zedan=0
Arambatzis=2

Can you give us any info on the 2 Arambatzis that you found, please.

Also more on the names....any help would be appreciated...TIA

LILIAN REGINA ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT...supposedly mother

FREDDY ALEXANDER ZEDAN ARAMBATZIS...he needs to tell the truth(have seen the last two names reversed, but Mostly have seen it as above)


Also, still trying to sort out Jorge Porras Sanches/Sanchez

It looks like we are after tennis guy, Sanchez, but I'm still looking for more info on him and ties to the Holiday Inn as their tennis pro.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 17, 2008, 12:04:10 PM
Just posted by BTGirl in the NAH thread...a few more names. LOL

Since there has been some discussion about the VDS ancestry, I was asked to post this by someone who has an interest in genealogy. They were all part of the land lawsuit in Boxtel that Paulus' family started.


{{edit - see link for names}}
 
http://www.echr.coe.int/ECHR/EN/Header/Case-Law/HUDOC/HUDOC+database/
http://cmiskp.echr.coe.int/tkp197/view.asp?item=1&portal=hbkm&action=html&highlight=sloot&sessionid=6262211&skin=hudoc-en



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 17, 2008, 12:11:55 PM
consecutive posts:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover (5th suspect) needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05. (first use of name)
He had been brought in for questioning that day


I'm a little confused about when Paulus actually became a suspect.

His 6/23 PV said witness, but his 6/25 said suspect from the beginning.

He was informed later during questioning on 6/25, that he was being detained and gave another statement. They are both listed under the same date.

So he wasn't really a suspect for the first statement, was he?

And I don't think we have one of those arrest notices in the Dr Phil files and I am pretty sure the page and sections are missing from the two previous witness statements and not his suspect statement.

According to Aruba, Paulus was arrested to put pressure on Joran.  That has always made me suspicious since Joran was probably getting ready to break until they arrested Paulus. Joran began to refuse to cooperate in earnest right after Paulus was arrested on June 23.  If you read Joran's PV from the 24th you can see he his entire demeanor had begun to change.  Joran was well aware that they intended to use Paulus as pressure.


On June 24th 2005, at approximately 10.00 hours, we, the reporting officers, went to the correctional facility Aruba to pick up suspect "Joran Andreas Petrus van der SLOOT" to be questioned.

There we, the reporting officers, were informed by the watch-commander on duty of the KIA that the suspect J.A.P. van der SLOOT refused to go with us.

The suspect J.A.P. van der SLOOT talked to us subsequently, and informed us that he did not want to go with us to the police station in Oranjestad to make a statement.

The suspect J.A.P. van der SLOOT gave us as a reason:

- he would only go with us, the reporting officers if is father was released

- that his mother and his lawyer had advised him on behalf of his father to not make any more statements and to invoke his right to not make statements

- that he would receive a message from his father's lawyer when he should make statements

- that according to his lawyer,if he would stop making statements, his father would be released in two days

- that he listens to his families advise

- that the lawyers "Antonio CARLO" and "OOMEN" are good friends of his father

- that these two lawyers out of friendship with is father would defend them

- that he know that if he would make a statement he could bring his father into trouble

- that his father suffers from bad memory and that because of that his and his fathers statements would not correspond

- that his father even can't remember what kind of clothes he himself wore the day before

- that his lawyer had said that the police arrested his father because according to the police his father had picked him up in the late night hours of May 30th 2005 at McDonalds

- that he wished the police would leave his friends and family alone/stop bothering his family and friends

- that he would only answer new questions asked by investigators

- that his lawyer had advised him only to make statements in his presence

- that his lawyer had started a lawsuit so that he would only make a statement with the lawyer present

- that he wouldn't come with us today because his mother would be visiting him at 14.00 hours that day

- that if he gets a visit from his mother he would discuss making another statement with her

- that only if his father, by way of his lawyer would say he should make a statement he would do so

- that he was waiting for the statement of his father and after that make another statement.

Of this, we, the reporting officers, on our oath of office, have made this proces-verbaal, closed and signed in Oranjestad on June 24th 2005.

The reporting officers,

S.A. TROMP M.A.G. RAS


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 01:08:10 PM
For Lala's...can't link to where I found it...LOL...this is what I am looking for on Freddy's Mom...any help would be appreciated...very important piece of information...LOL...TIA

EXCELSIOR CASINO N.V.
Business address J.E. IRAUSQUIN BLVD. 230, NOORD
Legal form LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY
Name of the company EXCELSIOR CASINO N.V.
Statutory seat ARUBA
Date of incorporation 19 JUNE 1998

Authorized capital ARUBAN FLORINS 100,000.00
Issued capital ARUBAN FLORINS 20,000.00
Paid up capital ARUBAN FLORINS 20,000.00
Fiscal year 01 JANUARY thru 31 DECEMBER
DIRECTORS - AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND CORPORATE BODIES - SUPERVISORY BOARD:
POSNER, WALTER BRETT;
Residing in 9 BANOCKBURN COURT , BANOCKBURN III, U.S.A.
Born in U.S.A., CHICAGO, ILLINOIS on 21 MAY 1960
Nationality AMERICAN
Position MANAGING DIRECTOR
Effective 23 OCTOBER 1998
Authority FULL
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY
TO OPERATE A CASINO AT THE "HOLIDAY IN RESORT".





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on March 17, 2008, 01:46:10 PM
All caught up!...LOL

Caps...I can't find your post right now, but it went like this...

Zedan=0
Arambatzis=2

Can you give us any info on the 2 Arambatzis that you found, please.

Also more on the names....any help would be appreciated...TIA

LILIAN REGINA ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT...supposedly mother

FREDDY ALEXANDER ZEDAN ARAMBATZIS...he needs to tell the truth(have seen the last two names reversed, but Mostly have seen it as above)


Also, still trying to sort out Jorge Porras Sanches/Sanchez

It looks like we are after tennis guy, Sanchez, but I'm still looking for more info on him and ties to the Holiday Inn as their tennis pro.

Mum, not sure if this will help but Caps post about
Zedan=0
Arambatzis=2
is on page 130 of this thread.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 17, 2008, 02:10:17 PM
He walks in many circles
He walks in ALL houses

Is good governance fully compatible with adherence to moral principles, or does it sometimes require their sacrifice? Philosophers throughout the ages have grappled with the problem of “dirty hands” that results from political leaders having to choose between unsatisfactory alternatives."

------------------

wonder what that Catholic Priest knows who runs that small "mazed" church in the middle of Aruba?  He called the sloots or LE and said Beth had been out there, etc.  He needs to be examined as it would seem he is picking sides, the "Godly" man of the cloth.   j/b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 17, 2008, 03:11:53 PM
consecutive posts:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover (5th suspect) needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05. (first use of name)
He had been brought in for questioning that day


So we do agree that paulus was a judge in training until around 6/17/2005, right?

And if Paulus is the 5th. suspect I don't believe he was scorned by Natalee, so who scorned him.

And who were the friends that he was home with?

More questions...LOL...TIA

PVDS was not scorned......remember the Simian's business interest......the chief concern of wampum

with respect to the party, that is the alibi story-some times friends cover for each other.....only DH was w/ PVDS when "the tree fell"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 04:05:39 PM
All caught up!...LOL

Caps...I can't find your post right now, but it went like this...

Zedan=0
Arambatzis=2

Can you give us any info on the 2 Arambatzis that you found, please.

Also more on the names....any help would be appreciated...TIA

LILIAN REGINA ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT...supposedly mother

FREDDY ALEXANDER ZEDAN ARAMBATZIS...he needs to tell the truth(have seen the last two names reversed, but Mostly have seen it as above)


Also, still trying to sort out Jorge Porras Sanches/Sanchez

It looks like we are after tennis guy, Sanchez, but I'm still looking for more info on him and ties to the Holiday Inn as their tennis pro.

Mum, not sure if this will help but Caps post about
Zedan=0
Arambatzis=2
is on page 130 of this thread.


Thanks tm....I would really like Caps to tell me about the two Arambatzis he found, if he can...LOL...it's probably been so long ago he can't remember!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 04:11:47 PM
consecutive posts:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover (5th suspect) needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05. (first use of name)
He had been brought in for questioning that day


So we do agree that paulus was a judge in training until around 6/17/2005, right?

And if Paulus is the 5th. suspect I don't believe he was scorned by Natalee, so who scorned him.

And who were the friends that he was home with?

More questions...LOL...TIA

PVDS was not scorned......remember the Simian's business interest......the chief concern of wampum

with respect to the party, that is the alibi story-some times friends cover for each other.....only DH was w/ PVDS when "the tree fell"


COLUMBO...I do believe you are telling me that I have been been barking up the wrong tree, chasing all over the internet in search of Freddy, Lorenzo, Guido, GVC. Steve Croes, the Gottenbos boys, David and of course the other David. Probably a couple more that I can't quite recall right now....LOL ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 17, 2008, 04:17:39 PM
consecutive posts:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover (5th suspect) needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05. (first use of name)
He had been brought in for questioning that day


So we do agree that paulus was a judge in training until around 6/17/2005, right?

And if Paulus is the 5th. suspect I don't believe he was scorned by Natalee, so who scorned him.

And who were the friends that he was home with?

More questions...LOL...TIA

PVDS was not scorned......remember the Simian's business interest......the chief concern of wampum

with respect to the party, that is the alibi story-some times friends cover for each other.....only DH was w/ PVDS when "the tree fell"


COLUMBO...I do believe you are telling me that I have been been barking up the wrong tree, chasing all over the internet in search of Freddy, Lorenzo, Guido, GVC. Steve Croes, the Gottenbos boys, David and of course the other David. Probably a couple more that I can't quite recall right now....LOL ::MonkeyHaHa::


just don't stand too close to it.....in case it falls


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 17, 2008, 04:20:25 PM
quoting Mum:

"So we do agree that paulus was a judge in training until around 6/17/2005, right?"


Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 17, 2008, 04:21:19 PM
Even if you "play cards"in the house of babyon as an arawak, you stil have DirtyHand.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 17, 2008, 04:21:47 PM
DirtyHand knows
So does the elder


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 04:49:53 PM
consecutive posts:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover (5th suspect) needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05. (first use of name)
He had been brought in for questioning that day


So we do agree that paulus was a judge in training until around 6/17/2005, right?

And if Paulus is the 5th. suspect I don't believe he was scorned by Natalee, so who scorned him.

And who were the friends that he was home with?

More questions...LOL...TIA

PVDS was not scorned......remember the Simian's business interest......the chief concern of wampum

with respect to the party, that is the alibi story-some times friends cover for each other.....only DH was w/ PVDS when "the tree fell"


COLUMBO...I do believe you are telling me that I have been been barking up the wrong tree, chasing all over the internet in search of Freddy, Lorenzo, Guido, GVC. Steve Croes, the Gottenbos boys, David and of course the other David. Probably a couple more that I can't quite recall right now....LOL ::MonkeyHaHa::


just don't stand too close to it.....in case it falls


Lol…Maybe that tree got Freddy, Ernesto and the Mom!

 ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 17, 2008, 07:56:00 PM
Any idea why Simian felt he had to make 5 almost identical posts in succession about the Night of Saint John and the fires?

Shango made many references to fire on june 26th




Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:46 pm

I will drive past the water reservoirs in Noord. The think is that tonight is a night when people in Aruba light fires. A lot of smoke. Religious/Pagan ritual. There will be a lot of Police on teh streets.


Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:47 pm

will drive past the water reservoirs in Noord. The thing is that tonight is a night when people in Aruba light fires. A lot of smoke. Religious/Pagan ritual. There will be a lot of Police on the streets.



Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:47 pm

I will drive past the water reservoirs in Noord. The thing is that tonight is a night when people in Aruba light fires. A lot of smoke. Religious/Pagan ritual. There will be a lot of Police on the streets.


#  Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:48 pm

I will drive past the water reservoirs in Noord. The thing is that tonight is a night when people in Aruba light fires. A lot of smoke. Religious/Pagan ritual. There will be a lot of Police on the streets.


Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:57 pm

The waters are low. The street are full. The night of Saint John. The fires will burn all around on the island. The smoke will clear tomorrow morning.

I’m leaving…[/i]


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 17, 2008, 08:04:27 PM
Simian on June 24th, 2005 6:12 pm

A whiskered rat will pause in repose, and then drink a cup of gravy.

This is a strange comment because it is not related at aal to any of the other posters remarks.
The only whiskered rat i can think of is this one from cinderella


" I am your fairy godmother and you shall go to the ball. But first you must go into the garden and pick a golden pumpkin, then bring me six mice from the mousetraps, a whiskered rat from the rat trap, and six lizards. You'll find the lizards behind the watering can. So Cinderella fetched a golden pumpkin, six grey mice, a whiskered rat, six lizards. The fairy godmother touched them with her wand and the pumpkin became a golden coach, the mice became six grey horses, the rat became a coachman with the most enormous moustache, and the lizards became six footmen dressed in green and yellow

just a thought


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 17, 2008, 08:12:32 PM
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/29/lkl.01.html


Nancy Grace….6/29/2005

GRACE: Yes, ma'am. Beth, what did you do today? I know you are working every single day to bring Natalee home. You have vowed not to leave the island without your girl. How are you spending your days?

B. TWITTY: Well, that's a good question. Today we really kind of looked at it as just regrouping and coming up with a different direction tomorrow. And we -- you know, I love children and we want to be involved in the community. So tomorrow we're headed to a school here in Aruba and we will begin making the hope bracelet for Natalee with a group of school age children.

And tomorrow we're also forming a -- we're doing a human chain from the Holiday Inn to the Windham Hotel, and just a prayer vigil for Natalee. So just, you know, every day right now is a little different. We're taking a few just different directions.

GRACE: What time is that prayer vigil tomorrow?

B. TWITTY: Tomorrow it's from 2:45 and will end at 3:00 at the Holiday Inn with a prayer for Natalee.


Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Simian has an IQ of 149 as measured by Gringos.
All of the words of the cohorts of the boy and the Hindus have been hi-jacked. For weeks already. The confrontation of yesterday was brutal. More lies woven. The boy has to fall apart. The Babylonians have their swords ready…
North American special interests have organized a “human chain of prayers†in Aruba. From the Wyndham to the Holiday Inn. Are afraid for their multi-million dollar investments? The Simian heard from the Gringos say they are doing OK. The bread won’t be taken from them. They will just sit this one out.
Posted Jun 30, 2:42 PM

   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Simian has an IQ of 149 as measured by Gringos.
All of the words of the cohorts of the boy and the Hindus have been hi-jacked. For weeks already. The confrontation of yesterday was brutal. More lies woven. The boy has to fall apart. The Babylonians have their swords ready…
North American special interests have organized a “human chain of prayers” in Aruba. From the Wyndham to the Holiday Inn. Are afraid for their multi-million dollar investments? The Simian heard from the Gringos say they are doing OK. The bread won’t be taken from them. They will just sit this one out.
Posted Jun 30, 2:03 PM

A day late this time...not reported beforehand.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 17, 2008, 08:36:36 PM
Any idea why Simian felt he had to make 5 almost identical posts in succession about the Night of Saint John and the fires?

Shango made many references to fire on june 26th




Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:46 pm

I will drive past the water reservoirs in Noord. The think is that tonight is a night when people in Aruba light fires. A lot of smoke. Religious/Pagan ritual. There will be a lot of Police on teh streets.


Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:47 pm

will drive past the water reservoirs in Noord. The thing is that tonight is a night when people in Aruba light fires. A lot of smoke. Religious/Pagan ritual. There will be a lot of Police on the streets.



Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:47 pm

I will drive past the water reservoirs in Noord. The thing is that tonight is a night when people in Aruba light fires. A lot of smoke. Religious/Pagan ritual. There will be a lot of Police on the streets.


#  Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:48 pm

I will drive past the water reservoirs in Noord. The thing is that tonight is a night when people in Aruba light fires. A lot of smoke. Religious/Pagan ritual. There will be a lot of Police on the streets.


Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:57 pm

The waters are low. The street are full. The night of Saint John. The fires will burn all around on the island. The smoke will clear tomorrow morning.

I’m leaving…[/i]


Might have something to do with one of the cards played by PVDS


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 17, 2008, 08:37:32 PM
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/29/lkl.01.html


Nancy Grace….6/29/2005

GRACE: Yes, ma'am. Beth, what did you do today? I know you are working every single day to bring Natalee home. You have vowed not to leave the island without your girl. How are you spending your days?

B. TWITTY: Well, that's a good question. Today we really kind of looked at it as just regrouping and coming up with a different direction tomorrow. And we -- you know, I love children and we want to be involved in the community. So tomorrow we're headed to a school here in Aruba and we will begin making the hope bracelet for Natalee with a group of school age children.

And tomorrow we're also forming a -- we're doing a human chain from the Holiday Inn to the Windham Hotel, and just a prayer vigil for Natalee. So just, you know, every day right now is a little different. We're taking a few just different directions.

GRACE: What time is that prayer vigil tomorrow?

B. TWITTY: Tomorrow it's from 2:45 and will end at 3:00 at the Holiday Inn with a prayer for Natalee.


Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Simian has an IQ of 149 as measured by Gringos.
All of the words of the cohorts of the boy and the Hindus have been hi-jacked. For weeks already. The confrontation of yesterday was brutal. More lies woven. The boy has to fall apart. The Babylonians have their swords ready…
North American special interests have organized a “human chain of prayers†in Aruba. From the Wyndham to the Holiday Inn. Are afraid for their multi-million dollar investments? The Simian heard from the Gringos say they are doing OK. The bread won’t be taken from them. They will just sit this one out.
Posted Jun 30, 2:42 PM

   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Simian has an IQ of 149 as measured by Gringos.
All of the words of the cohorts of the boy and the Hindus have been hi-jacked. For weeks already. The confrontation of yesterday was brutal. More lies woven. The boy has to fall apart. The Babylonians have their swords ready…
North American special interests have organized a “human chain of prayers” in Aruba. From the Wyndham to the Holiday Inn. Are afraid for their multi-million dollar investments? The Simian heard from the Gringos say they are doing OK. The bread won’t be taken from them. They will just sit this one out.
Posted Jun 30, 2:03 PM

A day late this time...not reported beforehand.



and he talks about hi-jacking words!!!!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 17, 2008, 08:41:10 PM
quote from jackb Today at 06:55:16 AM


Seems that I remember that dirtyhand is the key.  His lordship never brought the key back.
Perhaps he was attempting to have Guido or some of the ones who ran to the NL brought back and could not as someone thwarted that.  A few of them took off.  I believe GCV took off too.  There was this bartender at C&C, Guido, GCV, The Gottenbos' and Posner all went somewhere.  But dirtyhand is the key and the key was never brought back as it never existed (tight alibi?)  The partents (prominent citizens) gave GCV a tight alibi that could not be broken by saying (a lie) he was with them all evening or something to that effect.  They have so much stuff on people through those security videos, most likely, that many are afraid to go after them.  I have it in my head, gut and pictures figured out that GVC did the final death blow to her by GSW.  Everyone who has kept up with this case knows the LE has the case solved and has for three years since June of 05, but there has got to be a way for the US to get their azzes since they are not doing their job  by one of ours.  We prosecute ours if one of theirs is killed here.  Those effers will pay.  Those sorry azzed judges and LE are not fit to lead their own families and suck on wieners for a hobby.  They reek of filth.  Even allowing, in the NL, for filthy people to have sex in public restrooms where families have to go, even filthy perv sex that is an abomination to God.  They are Godless and hate anything or anyone who wants a Godly relationship.  They are a DISGRACE to the world.  Aruba and the NL.   Jack b

Maybe OT but i just felt i had to react to this one.
1. Having sex in public restrooms in the NL is not allowed
2. There has been some talk lately about legalizing homosexual sex in the vondelpark in amsterdam. This was just something that was proposed by a politician that apparently feels the need to make the press talk about him and put him in the spotlight. This idea has been condemned by almost everybody.

The point i am trying to make here is that generalisation is the stuff that leads to wars. Spitting out false and nasty generalisations, with the hope to get the masses behind their perverted agendas is what politicians of all nations have been doing for centuries. And in the end the wars that are started because of all this are not for the benefit of the simple guy in the streets like you and me. No one ever fought a war over the rights of the common man. Wars are fought for benefits like power, resources, whatever.

Call me naive but i believe that in every nation on this planet the majority of people are by nature good people, they just do not have the influence or importance to rally public opinion like some of the so called great politicians and opinion makers that mostly do have that hidden and perverted agenda.

So lets not give the few bad apples that you find in every country the satisfaction that they seek.

Think for yourself.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 17, 2008, 08:50:52 PM
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/29/lkl.01.html


Nancy Grace….6/29/2005

GRACE: Yes, ma'am. Beth, what did you do today? I know you are working every single day to bring Natalee home. You have vowed not to leave the island without your girl. How are you spending your days?

B. TWITTY: Well, that's a good question. Today we really kind of looked at it as just regrouping and coming up with a different direction tomorrow. And we -- you know, I love children and we want to be involved in the community. So tomorrow we're headed to a school here in Aruba and we will begin making the hope bracelet for Natalee with a group of school age children.

And tomorrow we're also forming a -- we're doing a human chain from the Holiday Inn to the Windham Hotel, and just a prayer vigil for Natalee. So just, you know, every day right now is a little different. We're taking a few just different directions.

GRACE: What time is that prayer vigil tomorrow?

B. TWITTY: Tomorrow it's from 2:45 and will end at 3:00 at the Holiday Inn with a prayer for Natalee.


Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Simian has an IQ of 149 as measured by Gringos.
All of the words of the cohorts of the boy and the Hindus have been hi-jacked. For weeks already. The confrontation of yesterday was brutal. More lies woven. The boy has to fall apart. The Babylonians have their swords ready…
North American special interests have organized a “human chain of prayers†in Aruba. From the Wyndham to the Holiday Inn. Are afraid for their multi-million dollar investments? The Simian heard from the Gringos say they are doing OK. The bread won’t be taken from them. They will just sit this one out.
Posted Jun 30, 2:42 PM

   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Simian has an IQ of 149 as measured by Gringos.
All of the words of the cohorts of the boy and the Hindus have been hi-jacked. For weeks already. The confrontation of yesterday was brutal. More lies woven. The boy has to fall apart. The Babylonians have their swords ready…
North American special interests have organized a “human chain of prayers” in Aruba. From the Wyndham to the Holiday Inn. Are afraid for their multi-million dollar investments? The Simian heard from the Gringos say they are doing OK. The bread won’t be taken from them. They will just sit this one out.
Posted Jun 30, 2:03 PM

A day late this time...not reported beforehand.



and he talks about hi-jacking words!!!!

LoL never noticed that. But then again his "Hi-jacking" words probably meant singing beetles


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 17, 2008, 09:02:23 PM
Any idea why Simian felt he had to make 5 almost identical posts in succession about the Night of Saint John and the fires?

Shango made many references to fire on june 26th




Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:46 pm

I will drive past the water reservoirs in Noord. The think is that tonight is a night when people in Aruba light fires. A lot of smoke. Religious/Pagan ritual. There will be a lot of Police on teh streets.


Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:47 pm

will drive past the water reservoirs in Noord. The thing is that tonight is a night when people in Aruba light fires. A lot of smoke. Religious/Pagan ritual. There will be a lot of Police on the streets.



Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:47 pm

I will drive past the water reservoirs in Noord. The thing is that tonight is a night when people in Aruba light fires. A lot of smoke. Religious/Pagan ritual. There will be a lot of Police on the streets.


#  Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:48 pm

I will drive past the water reservoirs in Noord. The thing is that tonight is a night when people in Aruba light fires. A lot of smoke. Religious/Pagan ritual. There will be a lot of Police on the streets.


Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:57 pm

The waters are low. The street are full. The night of Saint John. The fires will burn all around on the island. The smoke will clear tomorrow morning.

I’m leaving…[/i]


Might have something to do with one of the cards played by PVDS

Which one?

I went into suspicious mode and thought reference to the fires may indicate an alternative way of disposing of the body. It is so easy to go far out on ones assumptions. I read some of Mum's old posts and she made a good point about shango/simian reacting to the the events of the hour and the speculations raised by other posters. I think that is a very good insight.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 17, 2008, 09:04:53 PM
Any idea why Simian felt he had to make 5 almost identical posts in succession about the Night of Saint John and the fires?

Shango made many references to fire on june 26th




Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:46 pm

I will drive past the water reservoirs in Noord. The think is that tonight is a night when people in Aruba light fires. A lot of smoke. Religious/Pagan ritual. There will be a lot of Police on teh streets.


Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:47 pm

will drive past the water reservoirs in Noord. The thing is that tonight is a night when people in Aruba light fires. A lot of smoke. Religious/Pagan ritual. There will be a lot of Police on the streets.



Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:47 pm

I will drive past the water reservoirs in Noord. The thing is that tonight is a night when people in Aruba light fires. A lot of smoke. Religious/Pagan ritual. There will be a lot of Police on the streets.


#  Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:48 pm

I will drive past the water reservoirs in Noord. The thing is that tonight is a night when people in Aruba light fires. A lot of smoke. Religious/Pagan ritual. There will be a lot of Police on the streets.


Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:57 pm

The waters are low. The street are full. The night of Saint John. The fires will burn all around on the island. The smoke will clear tomorrow morning.

I’m leaving…[/i]


Most likley he didn't see them posted.  Sometimes it takes a little while to get them approved and maybe he missed seeing it the first time...if not...then I have no idea. LOL  Unless...he was trying to get everyone's attention about those fires.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 17, 2008, 09:25:59 PM
quote
Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:57 pm

The waters are low. The street are full. The night of Saint John. The fires will burn all around on the island. The smoke will clear tomorrow morning.

I’m leaving…[/i]


sounds like an interrogation:

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:59 pm
The fires burned high and bright. Even Saint John denied he knew. The smoke will clear soon.
The elder can’t deny. The son can’t talk. He is biting off his tongue. His sore and bloody tongue.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 17, 2008, 09:46:04 PM
light fires=turn up LE heat

many polis on the streets.......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 17, 2008, 09:49:13 PM
on drudge:

SOURCES: NY DAILY NEWS SET TO PUBLISH...

MAJOR POLITICAL BOMBSHELL: DEVELOPING

wonder who else was ensnared in the prostitution ring


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MsVada on March 17, 2008, 09:52:44 PM
Any idea why Simian felt he had to make 5 almost identical posts in succession about the Night of Saint John and the fires?

Shango made many references to fire on june 26th




Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:46 pm

I will drive past the water reservoirs in Noord. The think is that tonight is a night when people in Aruba light fires. A lot of smoke. Religious/Pagan ritual. There will be a lot of Police on teh streets.


Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:47 pm

will drive past the water reservoirs in Noord. The thing is that tonight is a night when people in Aruba light fires. A lot of smoke. Religious/Pagan ritual. There will be a lot of Police on the streets.



Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:47 pm

I will drive past the water reservoirs in Noord. The thing is that tonight is a night when people in Aruba light fires. A lot of smoke. Religious/Pagan ritual. There will be a lot of Police on the streets.


#  Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:48 pm

I will drive past the water reservoirs in Noord. The thing is that tonight is a night when people in Aruba light fires. A lot of smoke. Religious/Pagan ritual. There will be a lot of Police on the streets.


Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:57 pm

The waters are low. The street are full. The night of Saint John. The fires will burn all around on the island. The smoke will clear tomorrow morning.

I’m leaving…[/i]


Might have something to do with one of the cards played by PVDS

Which one?

I went into suspicious mode and thought reference to the fires may indicate an alternative way of disposing of the body. It is so easy to go far out on ones assumptions. I read some of Mum's old posts and she made a good point about shango/simian reacting to the the events of the hour and the speculations raised by other posters. I think that is a very good insight.



JMHO regarding the 5 exact posts......Back then when the site/server were really busy, there was some lagging happening, It is POSSIBLE that he/she posted, it took forever to show up or he/she thought it didn't post so re posted it.....before it finally showed up he/she had entered it several times.  BACK THEN, nobody mentioned it as it seemed a once in a while occurence. 

I don't post often anymore, but was a regular since the beginning.  I do remember this happening to me, so I do think its possible it happened to Simian

AND, did anyone else pick up on the words "the thing is" ??  There was another poster who was not SImian that used that phrase a lot in their posts. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 17, 2008, 11:12:21 PM
consecutive posts:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover (5th suspect) needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05. (first use of name)
He had been brought in for questioning that day


So we do agree that paulus was a judge in training until around 6/17/2005, right?

And if Paulus is the 5th. suspect I don't believe he was scorned by Natalee, so who scorned him.

And who were the friends that he was home with?

More questions...LOL...TIA

PVDS was not scorned......remember the Simian's business interest......the chief concern of wampum

with respect to the party, that is the alibi story-some times friends cover for each other.....only DH was w/ PVDS when "the tree fell"


COLUMBO...I do believe you are telling me that I have been been barking up the wrong tree, chasing all over the internet in search of Freddy, Lorenzo, Guido, GVC. Steve Croes, the Gottenbos boys, David and of course the other David. Probably a couple more that I can't quite recall right now....LOL ::MonkeyHaHa::


just don't stand too close to it.....in case it falls


Lol…Maybe that tree got Freddy, Ernesto and the Mom!

 ::MonkeyDance::

Since the Lions had a meeting at the last of the week in May, he may have had overnight guests, a judge or maybe?  It may have been to bring in new members.  They have about 70 members in that lions den.  Right many bros, I would think.   jack


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 17, 2008, 11:16:05 PM
quoting Mum:

"So we do agree that paulus was a judge in training until around 6/17/2005, right?"


Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not.

  He was supposed to have not been for a week or so before NH went missing.
His self esteem was waxing and waning.  Dangerous for psycopaths and those who seem to think too highly of themselves.  Sometimes they have to prove themselves at other' expense.  j/b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 17, 2008, 11:33:58 PM
There was an AB pulled in, but don't know just now when.  I am not home and have info on outside storage.  Anyway Adin Bikker is who that was, the best I can remimber. 

I thought "AB" was early misinterpretation of Freddy's name?

his last name/Arambatzis was released verbally at first,
rather than in writing

the listener heard Aaron Batsis = AB

anyone else remember this?


  It is Adin Bikker.  I am still not home, but have a picture of him and his father (or boyfriend) or whatever.  They play golf.  He wears glasses, has slope shoulders and looks a bit strange, not quite nerdy, but sort of strange.  The dude with him is older than he is.  I believe the dude with him is some kind of coach or something.  I am not just where I can get hold of this info.  They may have the picture on BFN in their archives.   Jack blue

Is this the pic that you are talking about from getagrip's site? Tibro posted the link this morning.

http://arubadirtypolice.blogspot.com/2006/04/andin-bikker.html


Yes that is the one.  j/b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 18, 2008, 06:11:02 AM
Found this this morning...

The twentieth century brought with it cycles of boom and bust not that different from feast and famines of old, and when the automation of the 1950’s reached Aruba and threw people out of work, the government realized the disadvantages of a one-horse economy. It got worse, in 1984 the entire plant closed down. And in a piece of decisive action that still leaves politician-watchers breathless, the Arubans – a coalition of government and the business community – engineered a shift from oil dependency to tourism, taking the unemployment rate from 30% in 1985 to almost zero today. Spearheading this was the Prime Minister Henny Eman (the grandson) and local banker Juanho Enrique Irausquin. Irausquin, in the words of his friend Milton Henriquez, "Looked at the beaches and didn’t see sand. He saw white gold."

http://www.internationalreports.net/theamericas/aruba/2002/diverse.html

Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm

One straight path

to the house of Rave,

while of gold bricks

the road is not paved,

answers mysterious lie within

magical letters which spell sin

XTC DNA







Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 18, 2008, 06:28:11 AM
MsVada: quote

JMHO regarding the 5 exact posts......Back then when the site/server were really busy, there was some lagging happening, It is POSSIBLE that he/she posted, it took forever to show up or he/she thought it didn't post so re posted it.....before it finally showed up he/she had entered it several times.  BACK THEN, nobody mentioned it as it seemed a once in a while occurence. 

I don't post often anymore, but was a regular since the beginning.  I do remember this happening to me, so I do think its possible it happened to Simian

AND, did anyone else pick up on the words "the thing is" ??  There was another poster who was not SImian that used that phrase a lot in their posts.

Lala’s: quote

Most likley he didn't see them posted.  Sometimes it takes a little while to get them approved and maybe he missed seeing it the first time...if not...then I have no idea. LOL  Unless...he was trying to get everyone's attention about those fires.
++++

JE…You and I were having the same thoughts at the same time last night…Scary…too much time in the Shango thread, maybe?

Last night when I was reading the NG interview I remembered that the post I referred to was posted twice as well. (See post on the last page). These two posts are 40 minutes apart!

Seems Simian did it a lot…about Paulus’ arrest as well as these other two. He even posted the two about PVDS arrest on a different thread than he had been using a few hours earlier.

Hmmmm! If he was at work and got sidetracked he may not have remembered if he had posted the info, and possibly could not read back at times.





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 18, 2008, 08:06:32 AM
quote
Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:57 pm

The waters are low. The street are full. The night of Saint John. The fires will burn all around on the island. The smoke will clear tomorrow morning.

I’m leaving…[/i]


sounds like an interrogation:


Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:59 pm
The fires burned high and bright. Even Saint John denied he knew. The smoke will clear soon.
The elder can’t deny. The son can’t talk. He is biting off his tongue. His sore and bloody tongue.



In dutch Saint John = Sint Jan (or Johannes de doper/John the baptist)
couldn't be a reference to Jan vd S could it?

still don't know what's with the fires. Shango mentions them at least 10 times


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 18, 2008, 08:12:17 AM
MsVada: quote

JMHO regarding the 5 exact posts......Back then when the site/server were really busy, there was some lagging happening, It is POSSIBLE that he/she posted, it took forever to show up or he/she thought it didn't post so re posted it.....before it finally showed up he/she had entered it several times.  BACK THEN, nobody mentioned it as it seemed a once in a while occurence. 

I don't post often anymore, but was a regular since the beginning.  I do remember this happening to me, so I do think its possible it happened to Simian

AND, did anyone else pick up on the words "the thing is" ??  There was another poster who was not SImian that used that phrase a lot in their posts.

Lala’s: quote

Most likley he didn't see them posted.  Sometimes it takes a little while to get them approved and maybe he missed seeing it the first time...if not...then I have no idea. LOL  Unless...he was trying to get everyone's attention about those fires.
++++

JE…You and I were having the same thoughts at the same time last night…Scary…too much time in the Shango thread, maybe?

Last night when I was reading the NG interview I remembered that the post I referred to was posted twice as well. (See post on the last page). These two posts are 40 minutes apart!

Seems Simian did it a lot…about Paulus’ arrest as well as these other two. He even posted the two about PVDS arrest on a different thread than he had been using a few hours earlier.

Hmmmm! If he was at work and got sidetracked he may not have remembered if he had posted the info, and possibly could not read back at times.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 18, 2008, 08:18:34 AM
MsVada: quote

JMHO regarding the 5 exact posts......Back then when the site/server were really busy, there was some lagging happening, It is POSSIBLE that he/she posted, it took forever to show up or he/she thought it didn't post so re posted it.....before it finally showed up he/she had entered it several times.  BACK THEN, nobody mentioned it as it seemed a once in a while occurence. 

I don't post often anymore, but was a regular since the beginning.  I do remember this happening to me, so I do think its possible it happened to Simian

AND, did anyone else pick up on the words "the thing is" ??  There was another poster who was not SImian that used that phrase a lot in their posts.

Lala’s: quote

Most likley he didn't see them posted.  Sometimes it takes a little while to get them approved and maybe he missed seeing it the first time...if not...then I have no idea. LOL  Unless...he was trying to get everyone's attention about those fires.
++++

JE…You and I were having the same thoughts at the same time last night…Scary…too much time in the Shango thread, maybe?

Last night when I was reading the NG interview I remembered that the post I referred to was posted twice as well. (See post on the last page). These two posts are 40 minutes apart!

Seems Simian did it a lot…about Paulus’ arrest as well as these other two. He even posted the two about PVDS arrest on a different thread than he had been using a few hours earlier.

Hmmmm! If he was at work and got sidetracked he may not have remembered if he had posted the info, and possibly could not read back at times.


Srry messed up last post

The server thing may be true, but the first three posts were made within 2 minutes of each other. The are not word for word the same ( not copy/pasted IMO) so he must be an extremely fast typer. 2 minutes would hardly even give him time to see if his message was even posted. He says he will drive past the reservoir 4 times and in his last post he says the water is low (as if he actually went there and checked) Post nr 5 was 9 min later.????


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 18, 2008, 08:49:55 AM
quote
Simian on June 24th, 2005 5:57 pm

The waters are low. The street are full. The night of Saint John. The fires will burn all around on the island. The smoke will clear tomorrow morning.

I’m leaving…[/i]


sounds like an interrogation:


Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:59 pm
The fires burned high and bright. Even Saint John denied he knew. The smoke will clear soon.
The elder can’t deny. The son can’t talk. He is biting off his tongue. His sore and bloody tongue.



In dutch Saint John = Sint Jan (or Johannes de doper/John the baptist)
couldn't be a reference to Jan vd S could it?

still don't know what's with the fires. Shango mentions them at least 10 times


Sounds quite possible to me JE....it appears a few of the posters were Dutch or of Dutch descent.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: truthseeker2 on March 18, 2008, 10:20:18 AM
Found this this morning...

The twentieth century brought with it cycles of boom and bust not that different from feast and famines of old, and when the automation of the 1950’s reached Aruba and threw people out of work, the government realized the disadvantages of a one-horse economy. It got worse, in 1984 the entire plant closed down. And in a piece of decisive action that still leaves politician-watchers breathless, the Arubans – a coalition of government and the business community – engineered a shift from oil dependency to tourism, taking the unemployment rate from 30% in 1985 to almost zero today. Spearheading this was the Prime Minister Henny Eman (the grandson) and local banker Juanho Enrique Irausquin. Irausquin, in the words of his friend Milton Henriquez, "Looked at the beaches and didn’t see sand. He saw white gold."

http://www.internationalreports.net/theamericas/aruba/2002/diverse.html

Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm

One straight path

to the house of Rave,

while of gold bricks

the road is not paved,

answers mysterious lie within

magical letters which spell sin

XTC DNA







Yes!  I have saying just that for the last two years.

When a FP poster offered a quess that Shango was talking about a country house off the beaten path that had many rooms where different things could happen I did not interpret Shango's response to be a definitive 'yes' to the poster.  I believe Shango indicated that the poster was 'close' to understanding when he said they had opened windows looking into the heart of Babylon.

The straight path is the beach - the man made beaches - which cost a great deal of money - gold brick -  to build.  Not to mention the amount spent on the hotels and casinos.

I'm not sure that 'house of Rave' is one particular place, but more a group or society or organization that establshes the boundaries and participants of the 'game'.  As I posted before - Royal House is not a 'place' nor is 'House of Babylon'.  Seems likely that Shango would use the same esoteric prose when he uses 'House of Rave'.

Now...when he posted:

The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED


The word I have highlighted in red stand out to me.  Music and Maze appear in this post to be proper nouns identifying a place, person or specific organization. 

The term 'ROLLED' is in all caps...for emphasis. The urban dictionary had a few interesting definitions.  One refers to the effects of using ecstacy.  Several referred to getting beaten, as in losing a game.  For example: "I got rolled in poker and lost my shirt.  If the term is used by the winner it would be "I rolled that dude so bad he didn't know how he was going to tell his wife he lost their house!"

As for the mysterious answers and magical letters I would find it odd that everything else Shango posts is cryptic to a degree, yet XTC and DNA on the surface seem to be very straight forward.  So....back to wondering what those letters REALLY mean.

These are just the things I think about when reading the Shango posts.  I don't spend much time on Simian anymore.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 18, 2008, 01:01:33 PM
Lala’s…do you remember anything about the Rainbow Warriors?…A Milton Ponson…is he the father of the of the 2 guys from the Racquet Club? An older woman tied in there as well. Could be the Mom.

Buckeye just posted about the Rainbow Warriors and I recognized the name. There was discussion early on in this thread before I started posting here. I will go back later and see if I can find the posts…just thought you may have a quick answer.(that darned Racquet Club again)...LOL

TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 18, 2008, 02:14:35 PM
Found this this morning...

The twentieth century brought with it cycles of boom and bust not that different from feast and famines of old, and when the automation of the 1950’s reached Aruba and threw people out of work, the government realized the disadvantages of a one-horse economy. It got worse, in 1984 the entire plant closed down. And in a piece of decisive action that still leaves politician-watchers breathless, the Arubans – a coalition of government and the business community – engineered a shift from oil dependency to tourism, taking the unemployment rate from 30% in 1985 to almost zero today. Spearheading this was the Prime Minister Henny Eman (the grandson) and local banker Juanho Enrique Irausquin. Irausquin, in the words of his friend Milton Henriquez, "Looked at the beaches and didn’t see sand. He saw white gold."

http://www.internationalreports.net/theamericas/aruba/2002/diverse.html

Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm

One straight path

to the house of Rave,

while of gold bricks

the road is not paved,

answers mysterious lie within

magical letters which spell sin

XTC DNA







Yes!  I have saying just that for the last two years.

When a FP poster offered a quess that Shango was talking about a country house off the beaten path that had many rooms where different things could happen I did not interpret Shango's response to be a definitive 'yes' to the poster.  I believe Shango indicated that the poster was 'close' to understanding when he said they had opened windows looking into the heart of Babylon.

The straight path is the beach - the man made beaches - which cost a great deal of money - gold brick -  to build.  Not to mention the amount spent on the hotels and casinos.

I'm not sure that 'house of Rave' is one particular place, but more a group or society or organization that establshes the boundaries and participants of the 'game'.  As I posted before - Royal House is not a 'place' nor is 'House of Babylon'.  Seems likely that Shango would use the same esoteric prose when he uses 'House of Rave'.

Now...when he posted:

The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED


The word I have highlighted in red stand out to me.  Music and Maze appear in this post to be proper nouns identifying a place, person or specific organization. 

The term 'ROLLED' is in all caps...for emphasis. The urban dictionary had a few interesting definitions.  One refers to the effects of using ecstacy.  Several referred to getting beaten, as in losing a game.  For example: "I got rolled in poker and lost my shirt.  If the term is used by the winner it would be "I rolled that dude so bad he didn't know how he was going to tell his wife he lost their house!"

As for the mysterious answers and magical letters I would find it odd that everything else Shango posts is cryptic to a degree, yet XTC and DNA on the surface seem to be very straight forward.  So....back to wondering what those letters REALLY mean.

These are just the things I think about when reading the Shango posts.  I don't spend much time on Simian anymore.



remember the gamblers??? high-ROLLED???

other rollers talk????

dicemen.net


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 18, 2008, 02:17:39 PM
All:

the straight path is the path to the maze (why did the girl owe money?)

about the house (with the path)
while of gold bricks   (those honey laden note$)
the road is not paved (poison note$)

note=loan (line of credit?)

the gamblers also took note
all the gamblers knew was written down
they knew the girl (who owed money)
she spent her nights at their tables




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 18, 2008, 02:52:43 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:57 pm
All know of the music
beckoning lost souls
to enter the seven levels of inferno
who gave Mary the poison wine of Bacchus?
Enter the Maze.


http://www.ludeboyrecords.com/bands.html
The Dicemen aim for total world domination. But if that's aiming too high this irresistible trio will be satisfied by making a lot of shows by spilling blood, sweat, and tears. Their own special blend of psychobilly is influenced by punk rock, rock & roll, rockabilly, hardcore, and death metal. The band is currently touring around Europe to infect poor innocent souls with their dirty power rock'n roll. As long as it stinks like sweat, tastes like beer and innocent girls fall to their knees when hearing the straight from the heart music, these Dicemen will conquer!


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll
ask the men who play dice and “roll”

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Follow the music
 

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED
 

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:18 pm
DirtyHand does not play with the lions
but he has entered the maze
the lamb is a scapegoat
DirtyHand knows
So does the Elder
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Follow the music
into the maze
the lions know they are being stalked
the gamblers and other Rollers talk
tell the cowboys!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 18, 2008, 07:15:55 PM
Lala’s…do you remember anything about the Rainbow Warriors?…A Milton Ponson…is he the father of the of the 2 guys from the Racquet Club? An older woman tied in there as well. Could be the Mom.

Buckeye just posted about the Rainbow Warriors and I recognized the name. There was discussion early on in this thread before I started posting here. I will go back later and see if I can find the posts…just thought you may have a quick answer.(that darned Racquet Club again)...LOL

TIA

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2258.0


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 18, 2008, 07:17:09 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:57 pm
All know of the music
beckoning lost souls
to enter the seven levels of inferno
who gave Mary the poison wine of Bacchus?
Enter the Maze.


http://www.ludeboyrecords.com/bands.html
The Dicemen aim for total world domination. But if that's aiming too high this irresistible trio will be satisfied by making a lot of shows by spilling blood, sweat, and tears. Their own special blend of psychobilly is influenced by punk rock, rock & roll, rockabilly, hardcore, and death metal. The band is currently touring around Europe to infect poor innocent souls with their dirty power rock'n roll. As long as it stinks like sweat, tastes like beer and innocent girls fall to their knees when hearing the straight from the heart music, these Dicemen will conquer!


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll
ask the men who play dice and “roll”

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Follow the music
 

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED
 

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:18 pm
DirtyHand does not play with the lions
but he has entered the maze
the lamb is a scapegoat
DirtyHand knows
So does the Elder
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Follow the music
into the maze
the lions know they are being stalked
the gamblers and other Rollers talk
tell the cowboys!


Which leads me to a question I have asked before.  Where is the Maze?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 18, 2008, 07:19:40 PM
And before someone asks about Lorenzo...here is the Race Junkies link.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1291.0


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 18, 2008, 07:22:05 PM
All:

the straight path is the path to the maze (why did the girl owe money?)

about the house (with the path)
while of gold bricks   (those honey laden note$)
the road is not paved (poison note$)

note=loan (line of credit?)

the gamblers also took note
all the gamblers knew was written down
they knew the girl (who owed money)
she spent her nights at their tables




One more question...who is the girl that owed money?  We know it was not Natalee.   Isn't that a contradiction in Shango's theory? Was he/she mistaken? 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on March 18, 2008, 10:04:42 PM
All:

the straight path is the path to the maze (why did the girl owe money?)

about the house (with the path)
while of gold bricks   (those honey laden note$)
the road is not paved (poison note$)

note=loan (line of credit?)

the gamblers also took note
all the gamblers knew was written down
they knew the girl (who owed money)
she spent her nights at their tables




One more question...who is the girl that owed money?  We know it was not Natalee.   Isn't that a contradiction in Shango's theory? Was he/she mistaken? 
Did they have the wrong girl?  ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 19, 2008, 04:27:54 AM
And before someone asks about Lorenzo...here is the Race Junkies link.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1291.0

I gotta ask about Lorenzo

OK, I've seen it posted/discussed numerous times:
he was questioned/Maxito Arendsz was questioned

Max co-signed his home-all-night alibi

I thought this happened on successive days:
either june 16/17 or june 17/18

this set of facts/sequence of events is burned into my brain

our team posted that Lorenzo's property underwent massive search ...
opposing team posted the same thing

but tonight I read thru that discovery docs link ...
didn't see Max Arendsz at all ...
saw Lorenzo's interro listed as june 28 ...
didn't see a search documented

so, am I one key lime krispy kreme short of a dozen?

or what?

any help would be much appreciated/TIA




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 19, 2008, 06:31:14 AM
All:

the straight path is the path to the maze (why did the girl owe money?)

about the house (with the path)
while of gold bricks   (those honey laden note$)
the road is not paved (poison note$)

note=loan (line of credit?)

the gamblers also took note
all the gamblers knew was written down
they knew the girl (who owed money)
she spent her nights at their tables




One more question...who is the girl that owed money?  We know it was not Natalee.   Isn't that a contradiction in Shango's theory? Was he/she mistaken? 
Did they have the wrong girl?  ::MonkeyConfused::


This has been touched on in the thread before, it's still in the back of my mind. There was discussion in the NAH thread about 6 weeks back, could have been longer, with a photo and a girl that looked a lot like Natalee...Virginia Page. ******* had posted the photo and the rumors about it.

Will see if I can find it here as I posted the link to the discussion on the main thread.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 19, 2008, 06:50:18 AM
Mum
Do you remember the conversation about Ruffner Page from the NAH thread a few weeks ago? HI daughter is Virginia and there was speculation that she would have been the most likley target if there was a planned kidnapping? Could you use your magical powers and find out about this again for me?  TIA

Lala's...here's the link...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2539.180

Bringing forward...oh my...what one can find with an index... ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on March 19, 2008, 09:25:48 AM
And before someone asks about Lorenzo...here is the Race Junkies link.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1291.0

I gotta ask about Lorenzo

OK, I've seen it posted/discussed numerous times:
he was questioned/Maxito Arendsz was questioned

Max co-signed his home-all-night alibi

I thought this happened on successive days:
either june 16/17 or june 17/18

this set of facts/sequence of events is burned into my brain

our team posted that Lorenzo's property underwent massive search ...
opposing team posted the same thing

but tonight I read thru that discovery docs link ...
didn't see Max Arendsz at all ...
saw Lorenzo's interro listed as june 28 ...
didn't see a search documented

so, am I one key lime krispy kreme short of a dozen?

or what?

any help would be much appreciated/TIA




Please remember, the discovery log pertains to documents that the Kalpos stated, that they have, in response to specific interrogatories from Dr. Phil.  I am not sure that all documents/statements related to Joran (and his case) have been seen or are part of the Kalpo dossier.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on March 19, 2008, 10:35:37 AM
And before someone asks about Lorenzo...here is the Race Junkies link.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1291.0

I gotta ask about Lorenzo

OK, I've seen it posted/discussed numerous times:
he was questioned/Maxito Arendsz was questioned

Max co-signed his home-all-night alibi

I thought this happened on successive days:
either june 16/17 or june 17/18

this set of facts/sequence of events is burned into my brain

our team posted that Lorenzo's property underwent massive search ...
opposing team posted the same thing

but tonight I read thru that discovery docs link ...
didn't see Max Arendsz at all ...
saw Lorenzo's interro listed as june 28 ...
didn't see a search documented

so, am I one key lime krispy kreme short of a dozen?

or what?

any help would be much appreciated/TIA


SGC was questioned on 6/16/05,then LVR and then Max Arendsz and depending who you talk to it is conflicting if his property was ever searched. Some say it was just his mothers property,others say his house and boat were searched and some say his property was never searched at all. SGC was arrested on 6/17/05

According to Pietjezz and his brother on racejunkies who knew Lorenzo,he was questioned the first week Natalee went missing and I believe that to be true. It's confusing second hand info,but I think that tip about the Natalee's clothes came in that first week and he was questioned before JK2 were picked up on 6/9/05. IMO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 19, 2008, 11:15:43 AM
Donuts?  No one told me?  ::MonkeyShocked::

Steve Croes was arrested on or around the same time another person was arrested.  This other person was never identified as far as Mum and I can tell.  This would have occured the very day or shortly the next day AFTER Steve Croes was arrested.  Whoever that person was is the 5th SUSPECT.  Why can't we just try to figure out who it is and stop fighting over it?  If it turns out to be someone other than Freddy, Lorenzo, Paulus or whoever then that is good...we eliminate people and the field becomes narrower and we have less to think about.

There are posts all over the internet about Steve Croes arrest...he is called both the 4th and 5th.  If Steve Croes is the 5th suspect, then he did indeed waltz away.  This same theory can apply to Freddy, Lorenzo, GVC, Guido, Paulus, and maybe even a few others.  Simian was telling us what he/she was hearing about the case at the time...nothing more...nothing less.  Since I think Simian and Merian both had the same email addy, I think they were the same person...Merian clearly points to the "hand" in the photo as being invovled....that hand belongs to Freddy. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 19, 2008, 11:26:47 AM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:57 pm
All know of the music
beckoning lost souls
to enter the seven levels of inferno
who gave Mary the poison wine of Bacchus?
Enter the Maze.


http://www.ludeboyrecords.com/bands.html
The Dicemen aim for total world domination. But if that's aiming too high this irresistible trio will be satisfied by making a lot of shows by spilling blood, sweat, and tears. Their own special blend of psychobilly is influenced by punk rock, rock & roll, rockabilly, hardcore, and death metal. The band is currently touring around Europe to infect poor innocent souls with their dirty power rock'n roll. As long as it stinks like sweat, tastes like beer and innocent girls fall to their knees when hearing the straight from the heart music, these Dicemen will conquer!


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll
ask the men who play dice and “roll”

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Follow the music
 

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED
 

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:18 pm
DirtyHand does not play with the lions
but he has entered the maze
the lamb is a scapegoat
DirtyHand knows
So does the Elder
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Follow the music
into the maze
the lions know they are being stalked
the gamblers and other Rollers talk
tell the cowboys!


Which leads me to a question I have asked before.  Where is the Maze?

I believe the maze can be entered from an underground cellar in one of the bars and from an entrance on the island where cars can actually drive into.
It is obscured from sight by foliage until right on it.  It has probably been in use for a few generations for one thing or another.  Perhaps on old gold mine, that has been altered in ways to accommodate partyers.  The path would not be paved and the walls would be of gold bricks.  The place could also be gone into from some house that is up against a hillside and leads into the cave ("rave".)   There are houses that fit this discriptions.  The island is made for solid caves to be formed.  Jack B


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 19, 2008, 11:29:22 AM
Good Morning Lala's...Or was it a fake?...LOL...Here we go again...Pop goes the Weasel!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 19, 2008, 11:34:27 AM
The person that was arrested/detained right after Steve Croes is your 5th suspect.  Whoever that was...Simian's hints are right in line with this...as so many have said, when reading in context it is easy to see...once again...I will say it...we only have to deteremine who that person was that was arrested the same day as Steve Croes to know who the 5th suspect was.  It was right before they took Paulus in...there were more rumors about another person that day than day on the FP.  Those in Aruba were hearing things that we did not know about at the time.

Also, yes there are many dirty hands in this mess.  I have come to believe that the dirty hand reference is about several persons that are in on the corruption and cover up and each and every time Shango mentions them he could easily be talking about a different person. 


Question for thought.....Who are the messengers?


  The person arrested after Steve Croes was Geoffrey Cromvroit, if not counting the black security guards.  If counting them, then it would be Joran.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 19, 2008, 11:42:49 AM
AHHH!!!...But they told us that you could not lie as a suspect!!!!

PROCES VERBAAL

We, Roland Ramiro TROMP and Clyde Anthony Burke, respectively inspector and sergeant first class, with the Korps Politie Aruba and attached to the section Often Occurring Crime District 2, state the following.

On June 23rd 2005, at approximately 14.30 hours, as a suspect, a man was interviewed who stated his name was: Paulus Antonius Petrus Johanna van der SLOOT, born in the Netherlands on February 15th 1952, judge (common court)  and living at XXXXXXXX number XX on Aruba.

Before the interview the suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT was informed that he was under no obligation to answer.

The suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT  has asked if his council Mr. A. SWAEN could be present at this interview and this was also requested by his council. This request was denied. His statement in dutch was transcribed by us, the reporting officers and goes as follows:


 

What was said is:  Suspects may lie and are expected to.  Witnesses may not.
j/b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 19, 2008, 11:49:20 AM
The person that was arrested/detained right after Steve Croes is your 5th suspect.  Whoever that was...Simian's hints are right in line with this...as so many have said, when reading in context it is easy to see...once again...I will say it...we only have to deteremine who that person was that was arrested the same day as Steve Croes to know who the 5th suspect was.  It was right before they took Paulus in...there were more rumors about another person that day than day on the FP.  Those in Aruba were hearing things that we did not know about at the time.

Also, yes there are many dirty hands in this mess.  I have come to believe that the dirty hand reference is about several persons that are in on the corruption and cover up and each and every time Shango mentions them he could easily be talking about a different person. 


Question for thought.....Who are the messengers?


  The person arrested after Steve Croes was Geoffrey Cromvroit, if not counting the black security guards.  If counting them, then it would be Joran.

Where is the evidence that GVC was arrested in early 2005?  I am still trying to find that after you first mentioned it.  How would you know this?  I want to see it in writing so there will be no doubt as to who is the 5th. TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 19, 2008, 12:13:51 PM
Simian on June 24th, 2005 6:12 pm

A whiskered rat will pause in repose, and then drink a cup of gravy.

This is a strange comment because it is not related at aal to any of the other posters remarks.
The only whiskered rat i can think of is this one from cinderella


" I am your fairy godmother and you shall go to the ball. But first you must go into the garden and pick a golden pumpkin, then bring me six mice from the mousetraps, a whiskered rat from the rat trap, and six lizards. You'll find the lizards behind the watering can. So Cinderella fetched a golden pumpkin, six grey mice, a whiskered rat, six lizards. The fairy godmother touched them with her wand and the pumpkin became a golden coach, the mice became six grey horses, the rat became a coachman with the most enormous moustache, and the lizards became six footmen dressed in green and yellow

just a thought

   

The only one I can think of is Simian going by seeing this and then trying to act like Shango.  Simian is not like Shango.  Simian is going to be the 47th because of misdirection.   j/b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 19, 2008, 12:18:02 PM
The person that was arrested/detained right after Steve Croes is your 5th suspect.  Whoever that was...Simian's hints are right in line with this...as so many have said, when reading in context it is easy to see...once again...I will say it...we only have to deteremine who that person was that was arrested the same day as Steve Croes to know who the 5th suspect was.  It was right before they took Paulus in...there were more rumors about another person that day than day on the FP.  Those in Aruba were hearing things that we did not know about at the time.

Also, yes there are many dirty hands in this mess.  I have come to believe that the dirty hand reference is about several persons that are in on the corruption and cover up and each and every time Shango mentions them he could easily be talking about a different person. 


Question for thought.....Who are the messengers?


  The person arrested after Steve Croes was Geoffrey Cromvroit, if not counting the black security guards.  If counting them, then it would be Joran.

Where is the evidence that GVC was arrested in early 2005?  I am still trying to find that after you first mentioned it.  How would you know this?  I want to see it in writing so there will be no doubt as to who is the 5th. TIA
 

2005 has nothing to do with the arrests in the order they were made as some of the suspects were arrested a year later, including GcV and Guido one month apart.   jack/b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 19, 2008, 12:24:33 PM
The person that was arrested/detained right after Steve Croes is your 5th suspect.  Whoever that was...Simian's hints are right in line with this...as so many have said, when reading in context it is easy to see...once again...I will say it...we only have to deteremine who that person was that was arrested the same day as Steve Croes to know who the 5th suspect was.  It was right before they took Paulus in...there were more rumors about another person that day than day on the FP.  Those in Aruba were hearing things that we did not know about at the time.

Also, yes there are many dirty hands in this mess.  I have come to believe that the dirty hand reference is about several persons that are in on the corruption and cover up and each and every time Shango mentions them he could easily be talking about a different person. 


Question for thought.....Who are the messengers?


  The person arrested after Steve Croes was Geoffrey Cromvroit, if not counting the black security guards.  If counting them, then it would be Joran.

Where is the evidence that GVC was arrested in early 2005?  I am still trying to find that after you first mentioned it.  How would you know this?  I want to see it in writing so there will be no doubt as to who is the 5th. TIA
 

2005 has nothing to do with the arrests in the order they were made as some of the suspects were arrested a year later, including GcV and Guido one month apart.   jack/b
 

CROMVOIRT, Geoffry van - 19 years old, resident of Aruba, who was detained by ALE on 4-15-2006 in an unannounced connection to the Natalee Holloway case. He is the son of the owner of an island security company that supplies equipment and personnel to beach patrol and hotels. For more information see Who’s Who - Victim, Suspects, Witnesses & Families.

Also it does not matter about wheather it is 2005 or 2006 as the arrests were coming, but put off, until they felt they had to act.  They knew who and when who would be arrested.   The wait was to throw everyone off and really fix alibis.  j/b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 19, 2008, 12:34:58 PM
Lala’s…do you remember anything about the Rainbow Warriors?…A Milton Ponson…is he the father of the of the 2 guys from the Racquet Club? An older woman tied in there as well. Could be the Mom.

Buckeye just posted about the Rainbow Warriors and I recognized the name. There was discussion early on in this thread before I started posting here. I will go back later and see if I can find the posts…just thought you may have a quick answer.(that darned Racquet Club again)...LOL

TIA

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2258.0

 

It seems someone wrote very recently that Freddy's mom had some kind of directorhip at the recquet club.   j/b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on March 19, 2008, 12:35:20 PM
JE

Between St. John being Jan and Van der Straaten's denials and the whiskered rat as coachman, my interest is almost peeked again.

You are really good at this...interesting "different" insight.  hmmmmm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on March 19, 2008, 12:42:34 PM
2005 has nothing to do with the arrests in the order they were made as some of the suspects were arrested a year later, including GcV and Guido one month apart.   jack/b

If they were suspects, early on, would they not have been detained?  Aren't Guido's statements listed as "witness" statements?

Guess it all depends on whether the poster was referring to "suspects" (formally) or just "suspicious" people.  I took the post in a more formal sense. Media called him "the fifth suspect". There were many people questioned but not too many named as suspects.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 19, 2008, 12:42:53 PM
The person that was arrested/detained right after Steve Croes is your 5th suspect.  Whoever that was...Simian's hints are right in line with this...as so many have said, when reading in context it is easy to see...once again...I will say it...we only have to deteremine who that person was that was arrested the same day as Steve Croes to know who the 5th suspect was.  It was right before they took Paulus in...there were more rumors about another person that day than day on the FP.  Those in Aruba were hearing things that we did not know about at the time.

Also, yes there are many dirty hands in this mess.  I have come to believe that the dirty hand reference is about several persons that are in on the corruption and cover up and each and every time Shango mentions them he could easily be talking about a different person. 


Question for thought.....Who are the messengers?


  The person arrested after Steve Croes was Geoffrey Cromvroit, if not counting the black security guards.  If counting them, then it would be Joran.

Where is the evidence that GVC was arrested in early 2005?  I am still trying to find that after you first mentioned it.  How would you know this?  I want to see it in writing so there will be no doubt as to who is the 5th. TIA
 

2005 has nothing to do with the arrests in the order they were made as some of the suspects were arrested a year later, including GcV and Guido one month apart.   jack/b

Whoa!  How can Simian be talking about an arrest that had not happened already when Simian clearly states it had?  You have me totally lost...please explain in more detail. TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 19, 2008, 12:44:34 PM
JE

Between St. John being Jan and Van der Straaten's denials and the whiskered rat as coachman, my interest is almost peeked again.

You are really good at this...interesting "different" insight.  hmmmmm

I agree...JE does 'see' some interesting things...


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 19, 2008, 12:50:15 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:57 pm
All know of the music
beckoning lost souls
to enter the seven levels of inferno
who gave Mary the poison wine of Bacchus?
Enter the Maze.


http://www.ludeboyrecords.com/bands.html
The Dicemen aim for total world domination. But if that's aiming too high this irresistible trio will be satisfied by making a lot of shows by spilling blood, sweat, and tears. Their own special blend of psychobilly is influenced by punk rock, rock & roll, rockabilly, hardcore, and death metal. The band is currently touring around Europe to infect poor innocent souls with their dirty power rock'n roll. As long as it stinks like sweat, tastes like beer and innocent girls fall to their knees when hearing the straight from the heart music, these Dicemen will conquer!


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll
ask the men who play dice and “roll”

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Follow the music
 

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED
 

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:18 pm
DirtyHand does not play with the lions
but he has entered the maze
the lamb is a scapegoat
DirtyHand knows
So does the Elder
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Follow the music
into the maze
the lions know they are being stalked
the gamblers and other Rollers talk
tell the cowboys!


Which leads me to a question I have asked before.  Where is the Maze?

It shows in the art exhibits of the Lions Club.  The whole story in different paintings.  The paintings have to be (resized not just enhanced)  and given the
right lighting and some even inversed.  It is very interesting.  There is one picture of a tree-like thing with PVs picture on the face of a scorpion-like incubus.  LOL  J    Have fun.  These paintings include Vds paintings as well as other artists.  There is a painting with what looks like a boot with a red truck inside it, but it is actually a road going into a cave, most likely that has a place to turn around.  The pictures were there.  Most likely some of them still are.  The houses with different block like features are actually individual pictures that can be somewhat brought into focus.  With better equipment they probably could be brought into good enough focus if someone knows what they are doing.   jackb


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 19, 2008, 12:54:44 PM
Lala’s…do you remember anything about the Rainbow Warriors?…A Milton Ponson…is he the father of the of the 2 guys from the Racquet Club? An older woman tied in there as well. Could be the Mom.

Buckeye just posted about the Rainbow Warriors and I recognized the name. There was discussion early on in this thread before I started posting here. I will go back later and see if I can find the posts…just thought you may have a quick answer.(that darned Racquet Club again)...LOL

TIA

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2258.0

 

It seems someone wrote very recently that Freddy's mom had some kind of directorhip at the recquet club.   j/b


It was me jackb...but it was SC Bubali and it was checked out the other night on the main thread and she is no longer listed on the list of businesses.

I have a post that said that she was listed as Dutch on an earlier list and wanted to verify it.

Now I am going with Dutch, as the poster read it and would have no reason to say otherwise when she posted a link with this info on it.

By the way...the Grandfather of Aruban tennis is Venezuelan, Humphrey Hose...who would have guessed!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 19, 2008, 01:35:43 PM
AHHH!!!...But they told us that you could not lie as a suspect!!!!

PROCES VERBAAL

We, Roland Ramiro TROMP and Clyde Anthony Burke, respectively inspector and sergeant first class, with the Korps Politie Aruba and attached to the section Often Occurring Crime District 2, state the following.

On June 23rd 2005, at approximately 14.30 hours, as a suspect, a man was interviewed who stated his name was: Paulus Antonius Petrus Johanna van der SLOOT, born in the Netherlands on February 15th 1952, judge (common court)  and living at XXXXXXXX number XX on Aruba.

Before the interview the suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT was informed that he was under no obligation to answer.

The suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT  has asked if his council Mr. A. SWAEN could be present at this interview and this was also requested by his council. This request was denied. His statement in dutch was transcribed by us, the reporting officers and goes as follows:


 

What was said is:  Suspects may lie and are expected to.  Witnesses may not.
j/b


OK...Lets try it this way...LOL...as a witness...and still a Judge or so he said...oh my I hear COLUMBO on his way in...LOL

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/police_documents/pvds618.htm

PROCES-VERBAAL

We, Roland Ramiro TROMP and Clyde Anthony BURKE, respectively inspector and sergeant first class with the Korps Politie Aruba and attached to the Section Often Occurring Crimes, state the following.

On June 18th 2005 at approximately 18.30 hours, we interviewed as a witness the man who when asked for his name and details, stated to be, Paulus Antonius Petrus Johanna van der SLOOT born in the Netherlands on February 15th 1952, occupation judge (Joint Court)  and living at ADDRESS REMOVED in Aruba for further information.

Before his statement would be taken the witness  was informed of his right to refuse giving any statement due to the relationship with the suspect.

The statement that he made was made in Dutch and goes as follows.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: nuntukamen on March 19, 2008, 02:25:29 PM
rumors afloat that joran has been rearrested in the netherlands


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 19, 2008, 02:43:04 PM
Jackb and JE...Caps was allowed to post all his theories about Shango and Simian, perhaps the two of you would do the same.  It helps me to follow all theories.  Thanks.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Windsor on March 19, 2008, 02:53:09 PM
I always thought the "whiskered rat" was Rudy Croes, with the beard


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 19, 2008, 02:58:17 PM
rumors afloat that joran has been rearrested in the netherlands


Thanks...I was having trouble loading pages, so made sure I stayed on the Natalee thread.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: nuntukamen on March 19, 2008, 06:42:41 PM
rumors afloat that joran has been rearrested in the netherlands


Thanks...I was having trouble loading pages, so made sure I stayed on the Natalee thread.





well, looks like that was all it was...rumors

aooarently a radio station broadcast it on aruba, but everything online is quiet, so it obviously did not occur


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 19, 2008, 07:07:12 PM
Jackb and JE...Caps was allowed to post all his theories about Shango and Simian, perhaps the two of you would do the same.  It helps me to follow all theories.  Thanks.

If i ever get to the point where i believe i can make sense of this and tell it in such a way that it is not open to different interpretations i will gladly post it. I believe that if shango/simian and others have a legitimate story to tell and for some reason had to "encode" it there should be a single key or logic to decode it. There is no point in encrypting a message without giving your audience the means to decode it according to a fixed set of rules unless there is no message. For example i dont think the word babylonians can mean one thing in a certain post and something else in an earlier or subsequent post. All forms of cryptography are based on the principle that both sender and receiver have a key to encrypt and decrypt the message.
I am now going over all the post they made from the beginning in relation to other posters comments and the events of that particular day.

If something comes to mind like the whiskered rat/ cinderella story that may or more likely may not have some meaning i will post it in the hope that it will trigger someone else. But as i said before my interpretation is as good as anyones.

what i have now are lots of pieces of a puzzle that don't fit together.

What i am interested in is what triggered simian to go from "normal posting" to the cryptic messages. That happened around the 24th

Off to work on a theory LOL








Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 19, 2008, 08:19:37 PM
Lala's a very wild theory (since you asked) ockhams razor applies but free salt shakers for everyone

Lets assume the wild and crazy guy (The guy that confronted joran) from earlier in the week was LVR. Freddy dont make sense cause the pimps were apparently willing to share girls so why would he get jealous? MB crowd and joran go to C&C
LVR and cohorts are there. They see Natalee and J2k leave. They follow them in a car. 2k and joran get pulled of the road by LVR. Lvr confronts joran, takes natalee and joran for a ride. Kalpoes leave. Lvr takes jorans shoes and  makes him get out of car, to walk home barefeet. LVR has shoes as leverage. Something bad happens to Natalee while in the presence of LVR(kills her out of jealousy). Joran freaks when confronted with Beth tells HI story. There is no doubt joran was interviewed by police on 31th of may. Maybe he tells the true story of what happened (someone, took Natalee). LVR could implicate joran by presenting shoes with DNA on them. Jan van der Straten, Paulus and Joran come up with the story that he left her at beach. Girl is missing no body no case. Joran lies about shoe size and type.(he was probably wearing beige coloured boots) So if joran rats on LVR and LVR produces shoes or makes them be found, legal checkmate

The reason i am postulating this rather outreagous and implausible theory is that i cant understand the lies. If joran would have said like in the de vries tapes that he dumped the body in the first place, assuming the body would never be found, which is a realistic assumption in the case he would have gotten rid of it. The maximum sentence for him would be six monts. No proof of foul play since there is no body. He could have maintained that Natalee had a seizure from drugs or whatever.

But if he was the last person to be seen with her and was unsure about what happened to her and had the knowledge that a third party could implicate him, that would make him prone to lying and confusing the police about his role in the events.

DONT GET ME WRONG i am not saying he had nothing to do with it and in my heart i feel he's much more involved. It's just an alternative scenario that came to mind.

Fire at will







Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on March 19, 2008, 10:09:59 PM
Lala’s…do you remember anything about the Rainbow Warriors?…A Milton Ponson…is he the father of the of the 2 guys from the Racquet Club? An older woman tied in there as well. Could be the Mom.

Buckeye just posted about the Rainbow Warriors and I recognized the name. There was discussion early on in this thread before I started posting here. I will go back later and see if I can find the posts…just thought you may have a quick answer.(that darned Racquet Club again)...LOL

TIA


Mum, I found these links for Rainbow Warriors:

http://www.rainbowwarriors.net/sids/la-car/aruba/index.html (http://www.rainbowwarriors.net/sids/la-car/aruba/index.html)

http://www.ecoaruba.com/en/index.html (http://www.ecoaruba.com/en/index.html)

Looked like interesting reading, however I was unable to view any pages other than the main page.  Websites have not been updated since 2006.  Maybe they're operating under a different name now, maybe the international site would be more accessible than the Aruba specific one.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 20, 2008, 08:28:40 AM
I always thought the "whiskered rat" was Rudy Croes, with the beard

Hi Windsor...he sure looks like one!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 20, 2008, 08:32:54 AM
Lala’s…do you remember anything about the Rainbow Warriors?…A Milton Ponson…is he the father of the of the 2 guys from the Racquet Club? An older woman tied in there as well. Could be the Mom.

Buckeye just posted about the Rainbow Warriors and I recognized the name. There was discussion early on in this thread before I started posting here. I will go back later and see if I can find the posts…just thought you may have a quick answer.(that darned Racquet Club again)...LOL

TIA


Mum, I found these links for Rainbow Warriors:

http://www.rainbowwarriors.net/sids/la-car/aruba/index.html (http://www.rainbowwarriors.net/sids/la-car/aruba/index.html)

http://www.ecoaruba.com/en/index.html (http://www.ecoaruba.com/en/index.html)

Looked like interesting reading, however I was unable to view any pages other than the main page.  Websites have not been updated since 2006.  Maybe they're operating under a different name now, maybe the international site would be more accessible than the Aruba specific one.



Thanks texasmom and Lala's. I found some posts back on pages 26 and 27, lol...I think, where it was discussed.

I am looking for a Racquet Club connection as some Ponsons are listed in the business directory for 2005.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 20, 2008, 08:46:59 AM
JE…on the jealous boyfriend.

In Joran’s book, there is a reference to a jealous boyfriend, a David. I am not sure if this is the same David mentioned as going to ASI and whose mother worked for US Customs. I don’t even know if this is David’s real last name that Joran states in the book, probably not. It could also be David Wever or it could also be someone else and Joran used the name ‘David’ as he did with Marco and Guido.

He may have even included this all in his book because of the Simian posts. Who knows…after all the book is listed as fiction.

Here are both the book links…

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1097.0

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1117.0




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 20, 2008, 09:00:01 AM
Good Morning Lala's...Coffee?

I know there is a quote from Dave about this and will have to look for it.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,193029,00.html


GRIMM: Right. Right. And I think what happened is "GVC" was seen at some time with Natalee...

(CROSSTALK)

VAN SUSTEREN: Apparently not. His lawyers issued a statement saying that they've never met.

GRIMM: Last week, the Aruban police came out and said she was seen with him at some point in time.

VAN SUSTEREN: And I think Dave Holloway said they had bumped into each other at Carlos and Charlie's or something, too.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 20, 2008, 09:10:47 AM
GVC…hottest guy in Aruba…1st link is Michael Dompig, second two don’t work and the last one is GVC…this is where I found it at Riehl World

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2006/04/natalee_hollowa_8.html


All these guys have to know each other. GVC worked on snorkeling and parasailing boats. So did M Dompig. They all go after the tourist girls including Joran. It's impossible they all don't know each other.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/425616365/1425697195063453400HgIaHE#
http://community.webshots.com/photo/518010456/1518040021082327657ofmBiQ
http://community.webshots.com/photo/518010456/1518051474082327657SPpgAG
http://community.webshots.com/photo/240708389/1242559385063433796DvPWEv
Posted by: rick | Tuesday, April 18, 2006 at 07:28 PM




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 20, 2008, 09:14:43 AM
Lala's a very wild theory (since you asked) ockhams razor applies but free salt shakers for everyone

Lets assume the wild and crazy guy (The guy that confronted joran) from earlier in the week was LVR. Freddy dont make sense cause the pimps were apparently willing to share girls so why would he get jealous? MB crowd and joran go to C&C
LVR and cohorts are there. They see Natalee and J2k leave. They follow them in a car. 2k and joran get pulled of the road by LVR. Lvr confronts joran, takes natalee and joran for a ride. Kalpoes leave. Lvr takes jorans shoes and  makes him get out of car, to walk home barefeet. LVR has shoes as leverage. Something bad happens to Natalee while in the presence of LVR(kills her out of jealousy). Joran freaks when confronted with Beth tells HI story. There is no doubt joran was interviewed by police on 31th of may. Maybe he tells the true story of what happened (someone, took Natalee). LVR could implicate joran by presenting shoes with DNA on them. Jan van der Straten, Paulus and Joran come up with the story that he left her at beach. Girl is missing no body no case. Joran lies about shoe size and type.(he was probably wearing beige coloured boots) So if joran rats on LVR and LVR produces shoes or makes them be found, legal checkmate

The reason i am postulating this rather outreagous and implausible theory is that i cant understand the lies. If joran would have said like in the de vries tapes that he dumped the body in the first place, assuming the body would never be found, which is a realistic assumption in the case he would have gotten rid of it. The maximum sentence for him would be six monts. No proof of foul play since there is no body. He could have maintained that Natalee had a seizure from drugs or whatever.

But if he was the last person to be seen with her and was unsure about what happened to her and had the knowledge that a third party could implicate him, that would make him prone to lying and confusing the police about his role in the events.

DONT GET ME WRONG i am not saying he had nothing to do with it and in my heart i feel he's much more involved. It's just an alternative scenario that came to mind.

Fire at will







In this thread there are no theories too crazy or off the wall.  That is why they gave me my own thread. LOL  I am the queen of "out of the box".  I would ask how we can establish the LVR was ever in the casino at that time.  He is known as a recluse and from all the silence about him I may agree.  I do however think he would frequent casinos.  Why he would choose the HI one is another mystery.  I can't quite understand why that particular casino seems to attract all the action.  There are so many on Aruba, but the Excelsior seems more prone to illegal activity than the others.  Most likley that is not true...we just hear about the HI one more since Natalee was there last.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 20, 2008, 09:17:07 AM
GVC…hottest guy in Aruba…1st link is Michael Dompig, second two don’t work and the last one is GVC…this is where I found it at Riehl World

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2006/04/natalee_hollowa_8.html


All these guys have to know each other. GVC worked on snorkeling and parasailing boats. So did M Dompig. They all go after the tourist girls including Joran. It's impossible they all don't know each other.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/425616365/1425697195063453400HgIaHE#
http://community.webshots.com/photo/518010456/1518040021082327657ofmBiQ
http://community.webshots.com/photo/518010456/1518051474082327657SPpgAG
http://community.webshots.com/photo/240708389/1242559385063433796DvPWEv
Posted by: rick | Tuesday, April 18, 2006 at 07:28 PM




We have seen him in a photo with Steve Croes, yet not with Joran.  I would think if he and Joran were often trolling the beaches for girls we would find photos of them together.  Freddy was known to roam the beaches with Joran and we see them together in photos. We see Freddy with the Kalpoes too.  Where is GVC with them?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 20, 2008, 09:34:10 AM
Jackb and JE...Caps was allowed to post all his theories about Shango and Simian, perhaps the two of you would do the same.  It helps me to follow all theories.  Thanks.

If i ever get to the point where i believe i can make sense of this and tell it in such a way that it is not open to different interpretations i will gladly post it. I believe that if shango/simian and others have a legitimate story to tell and for some reason had to "encode" it there should be a single key or logic to decode it. There is no point in encrypting a message without giving your audience the means to decode it according to a fixed set of rules unless there is no message. For example i dont think the word babylonians can mean one thing in a certain post and something else in an earlier or subsequent post. All forms of cryptography are based on the principle that both sender and receiver have a key to encrypt and decrypt the message.
I am now going over all the post they made from the beginning in relation to other posters comments and the events of that particular day.

If something comes to mind like the whiskered rat/ cinderella story that may or more likely may not have some meaning i will post it in the hope that it will trigger someone else. But as i said before my interpretation is as good as anyones.

what i have now are lots of pieces of a puzzle that don't fit together.

What i am interested in is what triggered simian to go from "normal posting" to the cryptic messages. That happened around the 24th

Off to work on a theory LOL








At this time I agree with you that once a definition is established it would remain the same through out the riddles.  I can't make it change and mean something else either. Simian says that babylonians meant gamblers. So if that is true then much of Colombo's theories are correct. If we think babylonians means the Dutch...then we have a different story there.  When you read the posts in context the terms do get changed from time to time and that is confusing...but Simian and Shango do not confuse them...only the others trying to decipher them.


Simian discovered there was a doppleganger around that time.  Also, I think someone was trying or did find out who Simian was then.  The cryptic messages began just 2 days before Shango arrived on scene.  There is a connection.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 20, 2008, 09:41:42 AM
Mum
The first webshots link worked for me..the rest wouldn't load...but I did find some familiar faces in that one...seems some people are everywhere on Aruba...day and night. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on March 20, 2008, 09:49:29 AM
GVC…hottest guy in Aruba…1st link is Michael Dompig, second two don’t work and the last one is GVC…this is where I found it at Riehl World

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2006/04/natalee_hollowa_8.html


All these guys have to know each other. GVC worked on snorkeling and parasailing boats. So did M Dompig. They all go after the tourist girls including Joran. It's impossible they all don't know each other.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/425616365/1425697195063453400HgIaHE#
http://community.webshots.com/photo/518010456/1518040021082327657ofmBiQ
http://community.webshots.com/photo/518010456/1518051474082327657SPpgAG
http://community.webshots.com/photo/240708389/1242559385063433796DvPWEv
Posted by: rick | Tuesday, April 18, 2006 at 07:28 PM




We have seen him in a photo with Steve Croes, yet not with Joran.  I would think if he and Joran were often trolling the beaches for girls we would find photos of them together.  Freddy was known to roam the beaches with Joran and we see them together in photos. We see Freddy with the Kalpoes too.  Where is GVC with them?

I haven't seen any of him with the Kalpoes but here is one with Angelina.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/AngelinawithGeoffrey.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 20, 2008, 09:50:10 AM
Mum
The first webshots link worked for me..the rest wouldn't load...but I did find some familiar faces in that one...seems some people are everywhere on Aruba...day and night. LOL

The fourth one has GVC with 2 girls. will have to go back as I had to shut down, that is the one that said the hottest guy in Aruba...just was going to post an interesting CNN link, will have to fetch it again...LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 20, 2008, 09:59:30 AM
I found this interview interesting and there is some discussion on the vcb shirt, but it is way too long to post. Here is the link and a small piece.




http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/20/ng.01.html



VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to make sure I heard you correctly because what you said was very significant, if I heard you right. You`re saying that you believe Geoffrey was at Carlos and Charlie`s that night?

HOLLOWAY: Yes. There are some witnesses...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow!

HOLLOWAY: ... that are being talked to that indicate that he may have been in Carlos and Charlie`s that same night.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s big new information, and I want to stress the reason why it`s such big new information is that we had originally theorized when we heard about this young man that he may have been patrolling the beach that night, the night Natalee disappeared, because that was a job he later held.

Now, of course, he has the presumption of innocence. I`d like to read a statement that his attorney has handed to us, and this is sort a summary of a very long statement, basically saying Geoffrey was not employed in May or June for the Visibility team or the VCB
security company. And that basically means that he says he wasn`t patrolling the beach for them. Geoffrey was not a friend and has no relationship to the three suspects previously detained, Joran and the Kalpoes. VCB did not take care of security in May 2005 for the Holiday Inn. From May 2005 to the present, VCB did not install security cameras at the Holiday Inn or any hotels along the string.

Again, bottom line, he`s saying he was patrolling that night. But gosh, Jim Moret, if it turns out that he was at Carlos and Charlie`s, doesn`t that give it an entirely new spin? That`s new information.

MORET: It does give it new spin. And let me just restate what the OM, the public prosecutor`s office, said in a written statement because this is very important. The OM said that Van Cromvoirt is being held as a suspect, not as a witness. But Van Der Sloot remains the main suspect.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 20, 2008, 10:20:58 AM
I got back to those two that wouldn't open by doing prev. and next, but they were only family pics. Didn't want to miss anything...LOL

jackb...if you are here...Do you have anything on GVC's alibi? I know you have posted that it was his Dad, but is there anything, posts, transcripts or interviews that you could point me to?...TIA


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 20, 2008, 10:35:20 AM
The person that was arrested/detained right after Steve Croes is your 5th suspect.  Whoever that was...Simian's hints are right in line with this...as so many have said, when reading in context it is easy to see...once again...I will say it...we only have to deteremine who that person was that was arrested the same day as Steve Croes to know who the 5th suspect was.  It was right before they took Paulus in...there were more rumors about another person that day than day on the FP.  Those in Aruba were hearing things that we did not know about at the time.

Also, yes there are many dirty hands in this mess.  I have come to believe that the dirty hand reference is about several persons that are in on the corruption and cover up and each and every time Shango mentions them he could easily be talking about a different person. 


Question for thought.....Who are the messengers?


  The person arrested after Steve Croes was Geoffrey Cromvroit, if not counting the black security guards.  If counting them, then it would be Joran.

Where is the evidence that GVC was arrested in early 2005?  I am still trying to find that after you first mentioned it.  How would you know this?  I want to see it in writing so there will be no doubt as to who is the 5th. TIA
GCV was not arrested in 2005, but Shango being Shango did not need to have it in the year he was talking about it happening.  As well AB (Bikker) was not a suspect.  SUSPECT being the key word here.  SUSPECTS are kept.  Not sure when Adine Bikker was arrested, will not look it up now.  j/b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 20, 2008, 10:56:40 AM
I don't buy for one minute that Joran and GVC don't know each other, but keep seeing this type comment.

Would the bridge between the two be the Gottenbos brothers? Who else Croes?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,192309,00.html


KELLY: Actually, there's a rather large mix still. I mean, I know Joran's attorneys have been stating that he doesn't know this individual, which I have no reason to doubt. But I've also been told that GVC has involvement with other people that are involved with the three principal suspects. So if you sort of bridge the gap there and look at Croes, you can try to speculate a little bit there as to what's going on.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on March 20, 2008, 10:56:53 AM
New Arrestee in Holloway Case First Questioned By Police a Year Ago
Geoffrey van Cromvoirt, a Potential Suspect, Was Questioned in Investigation's Early Stages, ABC News Learns

April 20, 2006—


The 19-year-old man arrested last weekend as a new potential suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway was first questioned by police in the earliest stages of the investigation almost a year ago, ABC News has learned.

Geoffrey van Cromvoirt was arrested following "chatter" generated after the Dutch equivalent of "America's Most Wanted" aired a reenactment of Holloway's disappearance, sources told ABC News. Van Cromvoirt's sister, who is a police officer, played an on-camera roll on the program, ABC News has learned.

In the Dutch reenactment, a mysterious white car follows the one Holloway is in with Joran van der Sloot, the Dutch teen long suspected in the case, the night of her disappearance. On Wednesday, a similar car was spotted parked in front of van Cromvoirt's gated home.


Investigators Return to Waters off Aruba
While van Cromvoirt faces hours of more police interrogation, Dutch and Aruban Coast Guard ships have returned to search the waters off Aruba with sonar devices.

Van Cromvoirt is being held as a possible suspect, not a witness, although van der Sloot remains the chief suspect. Van der Sloot has repeatedly denied being involved in Holloway's disappearance. Police won't say whether the two men knew each other, but van der Sloot's lawyer has said his client does not know van Cromvoirt.

Holloway has been missing since she disappeared on May 30, 2005, while on a class trip to Aruba. Van Cromvoirt worked for a private security company that patrols beaches outside Aruba's hotels. Holloway was last seen leaving an Aruba bar with van der Sloot and Surinamese brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, who were held for 25 days before being released. Van der Sloot has said he left Holloway on a beach near her hotel after they had kissed.

Van Cromvoirt's family runs the security company, according to Joseph Tacopina, the attorney for van der Sloot. The company provides security for the Aruban government and private companies, including the Holiday Inn, where Holloway had been staying, he said. The company installed the security camera and patrols the beach. Van Cromvoirt was part of the team that patrolled the Holiday Inn's beach in the early hours of the morning, according to Tacopina.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/LegalCenter/story?id=1865343&page=1


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 20, 2008, 11:17:52 AM
Hi vms...thanks for posting the pic.

Somewhere in the thread is something about GVC being arrested because of a white car that was parked at his house. Someone called a tip. I have been looking for it, but haven't found it yet.

I have posted about it a couple of times, but was looking for where I got it from. I will be back later, but it may have been from America's Most Wanted now I think about it.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on March 20, 2008, 11:34:53 AM
Hi vms...thanks for posting the pic.

Somewhere in the thread is something about GVC being arrested because of a white car that was parked at his house. Someone called a tip. I have been looking for it, but haven't found it yet.

I have posted about it a couple of times, but was looking for where I got it from. I will be back later, but it may have been from America's Most Wanted now I think about it.

Hi Mum,

You're welcome. I have several saved of him. If you need anymore, let me know.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

There is a reference to the white car in the ABC article above. Is that it?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 20, 2008, 11:47:24 AM
Some more i found
Hard to believe they did not know each other, same bars, same beaches, same interests
Anyone know who the guy on the left in top photo is?
(http://i26.tinypic.com/281wih4.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on March 20, 2008, 11:54:12 AM
I have seen him referred to as Curly, JE. That's all I know...

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/GeoffreyandCurley3.jpg)

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Curley.jpg)

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Curley2.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 20, 2008, 12:01:46 PM
Hi vms...thanks for posting the pic.

Somewhere in the thread is something about GVC being arrested because of a white car that was parked at his house. Someone called a tip. I have been looking for it, but haven't found it yet.

I have posted about it a couple of times, but was looking for where I got it from. I will be back later, but it may have been from America's Most Wanted now I think about it.

Hi Mum,

You're welcome. I have several saved of him. If you need anymore, let me know.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

There is a reference to the white car in the ABC article above. Is that it?

I saw that and don't think it is what I am looking for...but I could be totally confused on this LOL...it will drive me nuts until I find it! It wasn't in the AMW article, but that's been changed a couple of times recently when new things came up.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 20, 2008, 01:21:59 PM
I have often said that IF Natalee was even slightly interested in any male on Aruba while she was there it would have been GVC.  He was much more the beach bum hunk type of guy that would appeal to the girls. In fact, he is the only guy my own daughter ever thought was... as she says..."cute" among all the others.  If he was a cool and crazy as Simian said then meeting him would make sense. Still trying to make the pieces fit.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on March 20, 2008, 01:38:14 PM
I have often said that IF Natalee was even slightly interested in any male on Aruba while she was there it would have been GVC.  He was much more the beach bum hunk type of guy that would appeal to the girls. In fact, he is the only guy my own daughter ever thought was... as she says..."cute" among all the others.  If he was a cool and crazy as Simian said then meeting him would make sense. Still trying to make the pieces fit.
I've always thought the same. He is cute, IMO. A couple of comments, at webshots, left me wondering if he may be a real jerk though...

(http://i31.tinypic.com/28lb4er.jpg)

(http://i31.tinypic.com/2cpsxll.jpg)

(http://i30.tinypic.com/64gpbc.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 20, 2008, 01:41:06 PM
I have often said that IF Natalee was even slightly interested in any male on Aruba while she was there it would have been GVC.  He was much more the beach bum hunk type of guy that would appeal to the girls. In fact, he is the only guy my own daughter ever thought was... as she says..."cute" among all the others.  If he was a cool and crazy as Simian said then meeting him would make sense. Still trying to make the pieces fit.




Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.

The lamb is a scapegoat.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: cubbeegirl on March 20, 2008, 01:44:18 PM
I have often said that IF Natalee was even slightly interested in any male on Aruba while she was there it would have been GVC.  He was much more the beach bum hunk type of guy that would appeal to the girls. In fact, he is the only guy my own daughter ever thought was... as she says..."cute" among all the others.  If he was a cool and crazy as Simian said then meeting him would make sense. Still trying to make the pieces fit.
I've always thought the same. He is cute, IMO. A couple of comments, at webshots, left me wondering if he may be a real jerk though...

(http://i31.tinypic.com/28lb4er.jpg)

(http://i31.tinypic.com/2cpsxll.jpg)

(http://i30.tinypic.com/64gpbc.jpg)

I agree with you both on this... he is the only attractive one I have seen so far, and as far as being a jerk, probably is, but it sometimes takes a bit for that side of a person to come out as they can sometimes be so good at hiding that side of theirself...JMO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 20, 2008, 01:57:56 PM
Well, daughter did say sometimes the cute ones are the most dangerous...don't think I want to know why she made that statement.  ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 20, 2008, 03:32:38 PM
Well, daughter did say sometimes the cute ones are the most dangerous...don't think I want to know why she made that statement.  ::MonkeyShocked::


I bet those are size 14 boots he's wearing! ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on March 20, 2008, 03:41:56 PM
Well, daughter did say sometimes the cute ones are the most dangerous...don't think I want to know why she made that statement.  ::MonkeyShocked::


I bet those are size 14 boots he's wearing! ::MonkeyHaHa::
Mum that's really funny because I thought the same thing when I saw them..  ::MonkeyHaHa:: 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 20, 2008, 03:55:20 PM
Bringing over some posts from the NAH thread on my theoryon Simian’s ‘other car’.


« Reply #438 on: Today at 12:36:08 PM


Quote from: Lala'sMom on Today at 11:53:59 AM

That car looks more like the one sitting outside Freddy's place than any other photo.  Notice the dark trim on the car as compared to Freddy's.  Just saying...slinking back in corner.

from Mum

But are any of them a Toyota, is what I would really like to know...LOL

This is from the Dr Phil documents...and of course Freddy was interviewed that same day...


Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 1
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness pointing out an area of interest
 
Name: Annie Vicenta Todd
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Ghrizanti Tromp & Dennis Jacobs
Description: witness statement about a gray Toyota


From Hotping

Mum the top pic in Lala's post reply 435 looks like a Toyota Tercel....My Daughter had one just like it years ago.... 




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on March 20, 2008, 04:12:59 PM
I get the feeling he is quite impressed with himself.   :roll:

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Geoffrey4.jpg)

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Geoffrey5-1.jpg)

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/Geoffrey6-1.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 20, 2008, 04:39:31 PM
Lala’s…do you remember anything about the Rainbow Warriors?…A Milton Ponson…is he the father of the of the 2 guys from the Racquet Club? An older woman tied in there as well. Could be the Mom.

Buckeye just posted about the Rainbow Warriors and I recognized the name. There was discussion early on in this thread before I started posting here. I will go back later and see if I can find the posts…just thought you may have a quick answer.(that darned Racquet Club again)...LOL

TIA

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2258.0

 

It seems someone wrote very recently that Freddy's mom had some kind of directorhip at the recquet club.   j/b


It was me jackb...but it was SC Bubali and it was checked out the other night on the main thread and she is no longer listed on the list of businesses.

I have a post that said that she was listed as Dutch on an earlier list and wanted to verify it.

Now I am going with Dutch, as the poster read it and would have no reason to say otherwise when she posted a link with this info on it.

By the way...the Grandfather of Aruban tennis is Venezuelan, Humphrey Hose...who would have guessed!
  I did not make the "It's me Jackb quote."  If someone uses my name again to quote, I will mess your computer up so bad you will NEVER have use for it again.  Do it as you will.  I don't put up with that crap.  This IS me Jackb

Jackb - this is a warning. Next time you will be put on a timeout.  I suggest you read more carefully and think before posting rediculous threats ... SHE WAS RESPONDING TO YOU, NOT IMPERSONATING YOU(klaasend)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 20, 2008, 04:44:27 PM
Lala’s…do you remember anything about the Rainbow Warriors?…A Milton Ponson…is he the father of the of the 2 guys from the Racquet Club? An older woman tied in there as well. Could be the Mom.

Buckeye just posted about the Rainbow Warriors and I recognized the name. There was discussion early on in this thread before I started posting here. I will go back later and see if I can find the posts…just thought you may have a quick answer.(that darned Racquet Club again)...LOL

TIA

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2258.0

 

It seems someone wrote very recently that Freddy's mom had some kind of directorhip at the recquet club.   j/b


It was me jackb...but it was SC Bubali and it was checked out the other night on the main thread and she is no longer listed on the list of businesses.

I have a post that said that she was listed as Dutch on an earlier list and wanted to verify it.

Now I am going with Dutch, as the poster read it and would have no reason to say otherwise when she posted a link with this info on it.

By the way...the Grandfather of Aruban tennis is Venezuelan, Humphrey Hose...who would have guessed!


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on March 20, 2008, 04:47:37 PM
Lala’s…do you remember anything about the Rainbow Warriors?…A Milton Ponson…is he the father of the of the 2 guys from the Racquet Club? An older woman tied in there as well. Could be the Mom.

Buckeye just posted about the Rainbow Warriors and I recognized the name. There was discussion early on in this thread before I started posting here. I will go back later and see if I can find the posts…just thought you may have a quick answer.(that darned Racquet Club again)...LOL

TIA

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2258.0

 

It seems someone wrote very recently that Freddy's mom had some kind of directorhip at the recquet club.   j/b


It was me jackb...but it was SC Bubali and it was checked out the other night on the main thread and she is no longer listed on the list of businesses.

I have a post that said that she was listed as Dutch on an earlier list and wanted to verify it.

Now I am going with Dutch, as the poster read it and would have no reason to say otherwise when she posted a link with this info on it.

By the way...the Grandfather of Aruban tennis is Venezuelan, Humphrey Hose...who would have guessed!
  I did not make the "It's me Jackb quote."  If someone uses my name again to quote, I will mess your computer up so bad you will NEVER have use for it again.  Do it as you will.  I don't put up with that crap.  This IS me Jackb

What is wrong with you?

She was answering you!

Just what and who are you threatening with the following words?
 I will mess your computer up so bad you will NEVER have use for it again.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 20, 2008, 04:58:27 PM
GVC…hottest guy in Aruba…1st link is Michael Dompig, second two don’t work and the last one is GVC…this is where I found it at Riehl World

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2006/04/natalee_hollowa_8.html


All these guys have to know each other. GVC worked on snorkeling and parasailing boats. So did M Dompig. They all go after the tourist girls including Joran. It's impossible they all don't know each other.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/425616365/1425697195063453400HgIaHE#
http://community.webshots.com/photo/518010456/1518040021082327657ofmBiQ
http://community.webshots.com/photo/518010456/1518051474082327657SPpgAG
http://community.webshots.com/photo/240708389/1242559385063433796DvPWEv
Posted by: rick | Tuesday, April 18, 2006 at 07:28 PM




We have seen him in a photo with Steve Croes, yet not with Joran.  I would think if he and Joran were often trolling the beaches for girls we would find photos of them together.  Freddy was known to roam the beaches with Joran and we see them together in photos. We see Freddy with the Kalpoes too.  Where is GVC with them?

Val is into snorkeling and diving as well.  "curly" sort of looks like a curly sloot.  I do not believe it is Val, though.  Also someone said something about a heavy-set Hawaiian-looking dude was in the Casino with some of the sloots or their gang.  This dude looks Hawaiian and is heavy-set.  ALSO:
  It would pay all of them to distance from one another and if they can get ride of those videos, then they can certainly get rid of a few pictures of them together.  They had to be acquainted.  Both GVC and Guido was into mideling and Guido knew GVC.  Joran and GVC maybe never got along that well, as they both seem to want to be Prince of Aruba.  Not room for two of them.  It would be a guess that GVC went to ISA same as Joran, but is a  year or two older than he is.  GVC carried a gun and it is more than likely Joran never cleaned his clock because of GVC's position with the Beach Security and working relationship with the police.  He was probably told by his parents NOT to hang around Joran and group.  He seemed to have his own little crime thing going with the maryjane.  He and Croes were pretty thick and Croes was acquainted with both groups.  Note the Hawaiian-looking dude giving the same pimps sign.  They all knew each other and Croes was most likely the binding agent who would lie for either group as he worked both.  Croes is everybody's buddy as it is financially rewarding to be so.  He would do a favor just as quick for either group, especially if it covered his own azz.   jackb


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on March 20, 2008, 05:01:49 PM
Jack:

Whats going on here? Please don't threaten anyone! I am trying to catch up to see what happened?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 20, 2008, 05:04:50 PM
Lala’s…do you remember anything about the Rainbow Warriors?…A Milton Ponson…is he the father of the of the 2 guys from the Racquet Club? An older woman tied in there as well. Could be the Mom.

Buckeye just posted about the Rainbow Warriors and I recognized the name. There was discussion early on in this thread before I started posting here. I will go back later and see if I can find the posts…just thought you may have a quick answer.(that darned Racquet Club again)...LOL

TIA

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2258.0

 

It seems someone wrote very recently that Freddy's mom had some kind of directorhip at the recquet club.   j/b


It was me jackb...but it was SC Bubali and it was checked out the other night on the main thread and she is no longer listed on the list of businesses.

I have a post that said that she was listed as Dutch on an earlier list and wanted to verify it.

Now I am going with Dutch, as the poster read it and would have no reason to say otherwise when she posted a link with this info on it.

By the way...the Grandfather of Aruban tennis is Venezuelan, Humphrey Hose...who would have guessed!
  It's me, it's me earnest T.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 20, 2008, 05:06:15 PM
Jack:

Whats going on here? Please don't threaten anyone! I am trying to catch up to see what happened?
  It was my own stupid falt.  Misread what was printed.  I am totally nuts.  Sorry, Jack.

Please take that down.  It was nothing.   


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 20, 2008, 05:11:04 PM
Jack:

Whats going on here? Please don't threaten anyone! I am trying to catch up to see what happened?

What happened is (dumbazz me) thought because someone said "It's me Jack b" that they were writing in my name.  They were answering something I wrote.  I am going babanas.  That sort of scared me because I figured they might say something bad and it would be me who was thought to do it.  It just was a silly thing on my part.  J/b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Observer on March 20, 2008, 05:11:13 PM
Jack:

Whats going on here? Please don't threaten anyone! I am trying to catch up to see what happened?
  It was my own stupid falt.  Misread what was printed.  I am totally nuts.  Sorry, Jack.

Please take that down.  It was nothing.   

Ok,No problem..Play nice! :)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 20, 2008, 05:24:46 PM
JE…on the jealous boyfriend.

In Joran’s book, there is a reference to a jealous boyfriend, a David. I am not sure if this is the same David mentioned as going to ASI and whose mother worked for US Customs. I don’t even know if this is David’s real last name that Joran states in the book, probably not. It could also be David Wever or it could also be someone else and Joran used the name ‘David’ as he did with Marco and Guido.

He may have even included this all in his book because of the Simian posts. Who knows…after all the book is listed as fiction.

Here are both the book links…

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1097.0

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1117.0




Thx Mum for the links

David mmm... any relation to this one? The one in the bible was daniel

124: Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 1:55 am
Find the music
Only David left the den alive


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 20, 2008, 05:30:24 PM


In this thread there are no theories too crazy or off the wall.  That is why they gave me my own thread. LOL  I am the queen of "out of the box".  I would ask how we can establish the LVR was ever in the casino at that time.  He is known as a recluse and from all the silence about him I may agree.  I do however think he would frequent casinos.  Why he would choose the HI one is another mystery.  I can't quite understand why that particular casino seems to attract all the action.  There are so many on Aruba, but the Excelsior seems more prone to illegal activity than the others.  Most likley that is not true...we just hear about the HI one more since Natalee was there last.

Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape.


I d like to see that tape or know where he (whoever he is) declared that and to whom


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 20, 2008, 05:57:15 PM
Jackb and JE...Caps was allowed to post all his theories about Shango and Simian, perhaps the two of you would do the same.  It helps me to follow all theories.  Thanks.

If i ever get to the point where i believe i can make sense of this and tell it in such a way that it is not open to different interpretations i will gladly post it. I believe that if shango/simian and others have a legitimate story to tell and for some reason had to "encode" it there should be a single key or logic to decode it. There is no point in encrypting a message without giving your audience the means to decode it according to a fixed set of rules unless there is no message. For example i dont think the word babylonians can mean one thing in a certain post and something else in an earlier or subsequent post. All forms of cryptography are based on the principle that both sender and receiver have a key to encrypt and decrypt the message.
I am now going over all the post they made from the beginning in relation to other posters comments and the events of that particular day.

If something comes to mind like the whiskered rat/ cinderella story that may or more likely may not have some meaning i will post it in the hope that it will trigger someone else. But as i said before my interpretation is as good as anyones.

what i have now are lots of pieces of a puzzle that don't fit together.

What i am interested in is what triggered simian to go from "normal posting" to the cryptic messages. That happened around the 24th

Off to work on a theory LOL








At this time I agree with you that once a definition is established it would remain the same through out the riddles.  I can't make it change and mean something else either. Simian says that babylonians meant gamblers. So if that is true then much of Colombo's theories are correct. If we think babylonians means the Dutch...then we have a different story there.  When you read the posts in context the terms do get changed from time to time and that is confusing...but Simian and Shango do not confuse them...only the others trying to decipher them.


Simian discovered there was a doppleganger around that time.  Also, I think someone was trying or did find out who Simian was then.  The cryptic messages began just 2 days before Shango arrived on scene.  There is a connection.

I think simian went into crypto mode like you said when there were doppelgangers not only of him but of many posters
there were lots of raunchy comments made by people impersonating others.

on the 25th if i am correct simian used the term babylonians for the first time. I think he meant the police by that(my interpretation). On the 26 shango jumps in and IMO misunderstands simian cause in shango's posts babylonian seems to mean the dutch, the dutch legal system, or corruption. Maybe that is the cause of the confusion

if this a genuine simian post

Simian on June 30th, 2005 12:24 pm

If the Picaros took the girl then why haven’t they radioed in? They have an agenda and they always prove their point.

The Babylonians still have the boy and the Hindus pinched. The Hindus and the boy met again yesterday. The boy fell apart. Another patch is woven. There are no Picaros here, only a boy. So do the Babylonians think.

A slap in the face did the Babylonians receive yesterday from the ones who own the block and the hammer. The boy can recieve the elder. Ha! Their words will be committed to magnet.

The elder is not a capo in the Palace. The palace servants all think he is a failure, but he sure knows his way around. He did break one gate already.


The babylonians still seem to mean the police. The hindus and the boy met again yesterday is related to the police car recording of J and 2K. The police receive a slap in the face cause judge decides PVDS can see his son Their words will be recorded


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 20, 2008, 06:01:19 PM
The picaros
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tintin_and_the_Picaros
This is from a series of comic books from holland/belgium
The picaros in this story are fictive but the story develops somewhere in south america


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 20, 2008, 06:03:00 PM
@VMS thx for the clarification on "Curly" he is in a lot of pics with GVC


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on March 20, 2008, 06:09:07 PM
@VMS thx for the clarification on "Curly" he is in a lot of pics with GVC

You're welcome and yes he is in quite a few pics with GVC. I think I spelled it wrong though. I believe it is Curley.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 20, 2008, 06:14:13 PM
another thing use salt at will and may have been posted before

Simian posts about something rotten from the Hague. Probably refering to the results of DNA analysis from sloots car. He made a point of saying that PVDS could only be arrested if they had hard evidence

Later Shango brings this up by saying the key from the Hague did not exist etc

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
 
A line from the play Hamlet, by William Shakespeare. An officer of the palace guard says this after the ghost of the dead king appears, walking over the palace walls.     1
“Something is rotten in the state of Denmark” is used to describe corruption or a situation in which something is wrong.

Just a thought


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 20, 2008, 06:55:43 PM


In this thread there are no theories too crazy or off the wall.  That is why they gave me my own thread. LOL  I am the queen of "out of the box".  I would ask how we can establish the LVR was ever in the casino at that time.  He is known as a recluse and from all the silence about him I may agree.  I do however think he would frequent casinos.  Why he would choose the HI one is another mystery.  I can't quite understand why that particular casino seems to attract all the action.  There are so many on Aruba, but the Excelsior seems more prone to illegal activity than the others.  Most likley that is not true...we just hear about the HI one more since Natalee was there last.

Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape.


I d like to see that tape or know where he (whoever he is) declared that and to whom

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/02/25/michael-posner-upset-over-excelsior-casino-security-tapes-to-abc/

Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape.

First guy never denies the affair.

The father was confronted with evidence.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:28 pm
The father is trapped in a legal check mate.
The boy is mutilating his own tongue. He doesn’t want to let the old man down.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:54 pm
…unless the package from The Hague says that he is implicated. The evidence has him in a legal checkmate. He cannot deny.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 20, 2008, 06:58:23 PM
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/05/09/paulus-van-der-sloot-and-the-man-at-the-excelsior-casino-you-make-the-call/


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 20, 2008, 07:15:25 PM
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/05/09/paulus-van-der-sloot-and-the-man-at-the-excelsior-casino-you-make-the-call/

I always understood the legal checkmate to mean like simian said
1. PVDS can't testify for or against his son or any member of his family
2. PVDS can't incriminate himself

In other words he cant help his son even if he would admit he had someting to do with it and not his son.
He can sing any tune but it wont help cuz either way it is not admissible

Are you saying he is the cool and crazy guy? He must have a very hidden side if he is. On the other hand if he is the only one on tape(as far as we know) and cant deny that. What makes me doubt this is where jealousy comes in. I can't start to understand a father confronting his son about going out with a girl that he had been seeing before the son did.

Do you believe PVDS is the "boyfriend" from earlier in the week?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 20, 2008, 07:15:44 PM
forgot to include.....

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:59 pm
The fires burned high and bright. Even Saint John denied he knew. The smoke will clear soon.
The elder can’t deny. The son can’t talk. He is biting off his tongue. His sore and bloody tongue.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 20, 2008, 07:17:51 PM
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/05/09/paulus-van-der-sloot-and-the-man-at-the-excelsior-casino-you-make-the-call/

I always understood the legal checkmate to mean like simian said
1. PVDS can't testify for or against his son or any member of his family
2. PVDS can't incriminate himself

In other words he cant help his son even if he would admit he had someting to do with it and not his son.
He can sing any tune but it wont help cuz either way it is not admissible

Are you saying he is the cool and crazy guy? He must have a very hidden side if he is. On the other hand if he is the only one on tape(as far as we know) and cant deny that. What makes me doubt this is where jealousy comes in. I can't start to understand a father confronting his son about going out with a girl that he had been seeing before the son did.

Do you believe PVDS is the "boyfriend" from earlier in the week?

I don't buy the jealousy motive.....the Simian himself talks about occupancy, revenues, and what is the island's best advertisement.....while Shango has no reservations about the real underlying motivations


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 20, 2008, 07:21:53 PM
curiously, Simian does not use PVDS name until he knew (IMO) that it would hit the news:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05.
He had been brought in for questioning that day


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 20, 2008, 07:25:39 PM
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/05/09/paulus-van-der-sloot-and-the-man-at-the-excelsior-casino-you-make-the-call/

I always understood the legal checkmate to mean like simian said
1. PVDS can't testify for or against his son or any member of his family
2. PVDS can't incriminate himself

In other words he cant help his son even if he would admit he had someting to do with it and not his son.
He can sing any tune but it wont help cuz either way it is not admissible

Are you saying he is the cool and crazy guy? He must have a very hidden side if he is. On the other hand if he is the only one on tape(as far as we know) and cant deny that. What makes me doubt this is where jealousy comes in. I can't start to understand a father confronting his son about going out with a girl that he had been seeing before the son did.

Do you believe PVDS is the "boyfriend" from earlier in the week?

I don't buy the jealousy motive.....the Simian himself talks about occupancy, revenues, and what is the island's best advertisement.....while Shango has no reservations about the real underlying motivations

as in

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits

DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.

That makes sense if i put my mind in very sleazy mode. But then we still have simian bringing up the boyfriend being on tape and all. Why would he say that if revenues etc were his prime concern?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 20, 2008, 07:36:44 PM
curiously, Simian does not use PVDS name until he knew (IMO) that it would hit the news:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05.
He had been brought in for questioning that day


He had to be let go  is the 5th suspect that is not mentioned by name.

From what i saw in a Nova interview PVDS said he took time off from his job himself. So as not to be thought of as a person with a conflict of interest. Judging by the chronological order of arrests he was indeed the 5th suspect. But for the life of me i just can't fit in the cool and crazy guy and him being the host of the party. Unless the party is supposed to mean the tragic chain of events. But then he is still not the cool and crazy guy


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 20, 2008, 07:40:20 PM
seems some folks claimed they were at his house with him......sometimes friends will cover for each other


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 20, 2008, 07:41:07 PM
is there mention of the 5th suspect after Simian refers to PVDS by name?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on March 20, 2008, 07:43:06 PM
Lala’s…do you remember anything about the Rainbow Warriors?…A Milton Ponson…is he the father of the of the 2 guys from the Racquet Club? An older woman tied in there as well. Could be the Mom.

Buckeye just posted about the Rainbow Warriors and I recognized the name. There was discussion early on in this thread before I started posting here. I will go back later and see if I can find the posts…just thought you may have a quick answer.(that darned Racquet Club again)...LOL

TIA

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2258.0

 

It seems someone wrote very recently that Freddy's mom had some kind of directorhip at the recquet club.   j/b


It was me jackb...but it was SC Bubali and it was checked out the other night on the main thread and she is no longer listed on the list of businesses.

I have a post that said that she was listed as Dutch on an earlier list and wanted to verify it.

Now I am going with Dutch, as the poster read it and would have no reason to say otherwise when she posted a link with this info on it.

By the way...the Grandfather of Aruban tennis is Venezuelan, Humphrey Hose...who would have guessed!
  I did not make the "It's me Jackb quote."  If someone uses my name again to quote, I will mess your computer up so bad you will NEVER have use for it again.  Do it as you will.  I don't put up with that crap.  This IS me Jackb

Jackb - this is a warning. Next time you will be put on a timeout.  I suggest you read more carefully and think before posting rediculous threats ... SHE WAS RESPONDING TO YOU, NOT IMPERSONATING YOU(klaasend)

What a charming post, jackb.   ::MonkeyEek::

I hope your next post will be an apology directed personally to this hard working monkey who spends many hours of her day searching and researching details to enlighten all those who struggle to decipher these cryptic posts.  She comes up with some very pertinent and interesting facts, far ahead of the preposterous claims made in some of your rambling efforts.

It is an unwritten rule on blogs to attack the post and not the poster.
I have seen posters banned from blogs for a lot less than your comments above.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 20, 2008, 07:45:11 PM
seems some folks claimed they were at his house with him......sometimes friends will cover for each other

At the house of the 5th suspect not at the house of PVDS specifically


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 20, 2008, 07:47:10 PM
seems some folks claimed they were at his house with him......sometimes friends will cover for each other

At the house of the 5th suspect not at the house of PVDS specifically

5th said he was home with some friends until the morning

the partygoers need to be pinched (perjury?)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 20, 2008, 07:49:23 PM
Lala’s…do you remember anything about the Rainbow Warriors?…A Milton Ponson…is he the father of the of the 2 guys from the Racquet Club? An older woman tied in there as well. Could be the Mom.

Buckeye just posted about the Rainbow Warriors and I recognized the name. There was discussion early on in this thread before I started posting here. I will go back later and see if I can find the posts…just thought you may have a quick answer.(that darned Racquet Club again)...LOL

TIA

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2258.0

 

It seems someone wrote very recently that Freddy's mom had some kind of directorhip at the recquet club.   j/b


It was me jackb...but it was SC Bubali and it was checked out the other night on the main thread and she is no longer listed on the list of businesses.

I have a post that said that she was listed as Dutch on an earlier list and wanted to verify it.

Now I am going with Dutch, as the poster read it and would have no reason to say otherwise when she posted a link with this info on it.

By the way...the Grandfather of Aruban tennis is Venezuelan, Humphrey Hose...who would have guessed!
  I did not make the "It's me Jackb quote."  If someone uses my name again to quote, I will mess your computer up so bad you will NEVER have use for it again.  Do it as you will.  I don't put up with that crap.  This IS me Jackb

Jackb - this is a warning. Next time you will be put on a timeout.  I suggest you read more carefully and think before posting rediculous threats ... SHE WAS RESPONDING TO YOU, NOT IMPERSONATING YOU(klaasend)

What a charming post, jackb.   ::MonkeyEek::

I hope your next post will be an apology directed personally to this hard working monkey who spends many hours of her day searching and researching details to enlighten all those who struggle to decipher these cryptic posts.  She comes up with some very pertinent and interesting facts, far ahead of the preposterous claims made in some of your rambling efforts.

It is an unwritten rule on blogs to attack the post and not the poster.
I have seen posters banned from blogs for a lot less than your comments above.


I support that apology is required (hope my computer lives)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Tibrogargan on March 20, 2008, 07:51:55 PM
curiously, Simian does not use PVDS name until he knew (IMO) that it would hit the news:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05.
He had been brought in for questioning that day


He had to be let go  is the 5th suspect that is not mentioned by name.

From what i saw in a Nova interview PVDS said he took time off from his job himself. So as not to be thought of as a person with a conflict of interest. Judging by the chronological order of arrests he was indeed the 5th suspect. But for the life of me i just can't fit in the cool and crazy guy and him being the host of the party. Unless the party is supposed to mean the tragic chain of events. But then he is still not the cool and crazy guy

FWIW - the time difference between Paulus' suspension on 17th and Simian's post on the 22nd leads me to believe that it is another person to which Simian refers.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 20, 2008, 07:53:51 PM
seems some folks claimed they were at his house with him......sometimes friends will cover for each other

At the house of the 5th suspect not at the house of PVDS specifically

5th said he was home with some friends until the morning

the partygoers need to be pinched (perjury?)

You got a point there. I read on the renevannie.com site (all in dutch) that at the time of PVDS first interrogation he places this on the 18th there was a high ranked official from the dutch OM staying at the VDS house. But still it is hard to believe that they would cover for him. Were his wherabouts ever questioned to such a degree as to need an alibi?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on March 20, 2008, 07:59:47 PM
curiously, Simian does not use PVDS name until he knew (IMO) that it would hit the news:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05.
He had been brought in for questioning that day


He had to be let go  is the 5th suspect that is not mentioned by name.

From what i saw in a Nova interview PVDS said he took time off from his job himself. So as not to be thought of as a person with a conflict of interest. Judging by the chronological order of arrests he was indeed the 5th suspect. But for the life of me i just can't fit in the cool and crazy guy and him being the host of the party. Unless the party is supposed to mean the tragic chain of events. But then he is still not the cool and crazy guy

Paulus and Anita did an interview on CNN?, August 2005.  Paulus explained his call to the court so it would not appear to be a conflict of interest.  The reporter asked about being out of work since this started.  Paulus responded he has "been working from home".  He was not let go...IMO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 20, 2008, 08:03:20 PM
curiously, Simian does not use PVDS name until he knew (IMO) that it would hit the news:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05.
He had been brought in for questioning that day


He had to be let go  is the 5th suspect that is not mentioned by name.

From what i saw in a Nova interview PVDS said he took time off from his job himself. So as not to be thought of as a person with a conflict of interest. Judging by the chronological order of arrests he was indeed the 5th suspect. But for the life of me i just can't fit in the cool and crazy guy and him being the host of the party. Unless the party is supposed to mean the tragic chain of events. But then he is still not the cool and crazy guy

FWIW - the time difference between Paulus' suspension on 17th and Simian's post on the 22nd leads me to believe that it is another person to which Simian refers.

He had to be let go

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:30 pm
Paulus has been picked up.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Buckeye on March 20, 2008, 08:05:15 PM
seems some folks claimed they were at his house with him......sometimes friends will cover for each other

At the house of the 5th suspect not at the house of PVDS specifically

5th said he was home with some friends until the morning

the partygoers need to be pinched (perjury?)

You got a point there. I read on the renevannie.com site (all in dutch) that at the time of PVDS first interrogation he places this on the 18th there was a high ranked official from the dutch OM staying at the VDS house. But still it is hard to believe that they would cover for him. Were his wherabouts ever questioned to such a degree as to need an alibi?

In hind site, there could have been knowledge of the casino video and two witnesses to a four o'clock pick up time and wiretaps.  Might have needed a "powerful person" alibi to get past all that....


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 20, 2008, 08:23:57 PM
PLEASE!! Let's read Simian in context...there are things in some of the quotes above that is not in the original quote...let's read it together. There is no mention of Paulus in this conversation of Simian's...the place I pulled that quote from was a site that I have access to and that about PVDS is simply a comment from the poster that is thinking along the same lines as Colombo...I like to read it as it was originally written.  Thanks.



Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:09 pm

A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.




# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:11 pm

Was the lover on the trip??


# Stefe McHearthy on June 22nd, 2005 5:12 pm

@ MOFOfromMO
You know it is exactly on topic.
Do what you feel is right.



# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:12 pm

Sim -Surely your not saying a local MT brook boyfriend would be involved in this, would you.


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:13 pm

A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.



# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:14 pm

Sim -I think your reaching



# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:15 pm

How could a local MT boyfriend be involved. The FBI would have cracked this case already through phone records and the internet. I don’t believe this. This is yet ANOTHER rumor!


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:16 pm

He had to be let go.



# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:16 pm

Does seem a little far fetched.


# born 2 b wild on June 22nd, 2005 5:17 pm

I love the cock fighting that goes on in this blog -complete w/razor blades attached to the spurs

We should take odds on the hour for the latest round

Right now we got Stefe in this corner and MOM from MO (the “show me MOM”) in that corner

p.s: checkme - check this



# Kristin on June 22nd, 2005 5:17 pm

COUNTRY MOON:

Thank you for taking the time to come on and talk to us. We appreciate your time, even though we can’t imagine how hard this must be for you and your community-we do understand. We all have been pretty caught up in this case, it’s tearing everyone apart. People have been listening to the news, radio and checking online forums faithfully. We all want Natalee to be safe, and we all understand that there is more to the story. As typical Americans though, we don’t understand WHY we can’t hear the truth. We know that Mrs. Twitty is keeping it together for SOME reason other than the simple hope of Natalee being alive. She has to KNOW that she is alive. Any information that we hear is helpful…and just the fact that you say OUTLOUD that there is more to the story keeps us all hanging on. It is hard to try and justify what Natalee is really like, when we don’t know her and we hear all of the rumors. It would help us all to understand MORE if we knew if Natalee has dissapeared before. But as you said, you probably can’t answer that.
I figured I would give it a shot anyways, and if you still can’t answer, I respect that.
Do you believe that she is alive but in another country?


# sunny71 on June 22nd, 2005 5:17 pm

Some insight from a local:
the coverage of this case is ridiculous, but I can understand the fixation on the ‘exoticness’ of this case, what with the weird Aruban laws and all.
Fact is, the police here has every interest in getting this thing resolved asap, if only because of the negative publicity.
The investigators screwed up in the beginning, because vdSloot Sr. is well known in those circles and they took Jr.’s story at face value at first. Understandable under the circumstances, but stupid in hindsight.
Jr. would have confessed a long time ago if he had done it. Interrogations by the local police are not a walk in the park for the suspects, as some of you might think. Aruban police knows a thing or two about pressuring a suspect.
My question is: did NH go back to her hotelroom and sneak out that night and are her roommates keeping mum about that? Just a thought.
I think Steve Croes and the Kalpoe’s should be the focus.



# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:17 pm

Good try Sim….I hope this story (rumor) breaks tonight. That will mean more air time for the Natalee Case!!!



# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:18 pm

Sim - again is this your theory or something more concrete?
# MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 5:19 pm

Hey Sim?

Didn’t you mention earlier that when you were ‘awaiting moderation’, that it occurred when you typed (the word for a place to gamble)???


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:20 pm

Kristin - Country seemed to discount that earlier that she had been kidnapped and was possibly on another island - she seemed to point the finger at Van Der Sloot.
# MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 5:21 pm

Born 2 B Wild:

Now, don’t get excited. I’m not in any corner, cuz I don’t humor TROLLS for long.

Besides, I’ve already flushed him down the commode with the rest of his little ‘brown friends’.

***Whhhhaaaa-Shhhhhhhhhh***



# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:22 pm

This is not my theory. This is for real.



# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:23 pm

Sim - I will give you your props if it proves correct.


# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:25 pm

Sim - let me get this right - seriously - you are saying NH’s ex killed her on the trip and the friends are covering up that he did this? Hence giving him an airtight alibi as you say.



# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:25 pm

crs- can you put together a small little paragraph on the latest theory from Sim.


# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:25 pm

Sim - You have lost me!!


# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:25 pm

Sunny 71
I do not know if it is true, but about 12 days ago it was reported that the roomates had not worried because she had only slept in the room the first night. Did not say if she had slept at other friends’ or elsewhere.


# Kristin on June 22nd, 2005 5:25 pm

Seriously guys, what are we talking about? WHO is suspect # 5? AND, something along these lines WOULD make sense, seeing as how everyone in Aruba knows whats going on and they all seem calm about it. If Joran really did something to Natalee, you think Mrs. Twitty would be hugging his mother and being friendly with his Dad? NO. I don’t care how nice she is, she wouldn’t do that.

Thanks CRS for being so helpful.
GOD-WHAT is going on??? And WHEN are we going to find out????????????


# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:26 pm

The alibi story is the almost the latest.

The latest is that there’s a gap in the time-line for the boys.

It is true that one of them tried to off himself.



# Midway on June 22nd, 2005 5:26 pm

Joran’s probably innocent


# MOMfromMO on June 22nd, 2005 5:28 pm

I’m outtie, folks. Have a great evening..Thank you everyone, for all the updates!!

Peace out.


# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 5:28 pm

Simian is late with facts and wring with his speculations.



# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:28 pm

Kristin
Mrts. Twiggy didn’t hug Mrs. Van Der Sloot. Mrs. Van Der Sloot kissed Mrs. Twiggy on the cheek, as she left her house.



# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:29 pm

I did not say an ex. Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.




#  crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:29 pm

Sim - your not making any sense- on the one hand you seem to be saying an ex killed NH and on the other hand you are back talking about the boys - why would one of the boys try and kill himself if he is being framed?



# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:29 pm

elaborate Checkme


# Midway on June 22nd, 2005 5:29 pm

The two security guards set Joran up



# Jake on June 22nd, 2005 5:30 pm

But who is the ex-boyfriend? Is he someone from the US, or did Natalee meet him in Aruba? Who is Van Rijn?



# Rob on June 22nd, 2005 5:30 pm

Sim,

Was this #5 perhaps someone Joran was having a confrontation with in C&C’s?


# pdl on June 22nd, 2005 5:30 pm

Mrs. Twitty after leaving the Van Der Sloot’s home said that she felt sure there would be more arrests leading me to think that she is being held somewhere by others.



# Trisher on June 22nd, 2005 5:30 pm

He said the ex was at “home.” He said the 5th had an alibi - that is not necessarily the ex.



# crs on June 22nd, 2005 5:30 pm

Checkme- that is what i figured as you have by far been the most accurate and I am with you on your theory.


# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:31 pm

Checkme
Please put us up-to-date.


# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:31 pm

Sim is saying that her ex’s friends had something to do with this, her ex was back in alabama, right Sim



# concerned4natalee on June 22nd, 2005 5:31 pm

DOES ANYONE HAVE A CLUE HERE?



# concerned4natalee on June 22nd, 2005 5:32 pm

WHO’S THE 5TH PERSON??



# rem05 on June 22nd, 2005 5:33 pm

Concerned - Ask Sim, he’s like my mom, he knows everything.



# Stefe McHearthy on June 22nd, 2005 5:33 pm

@ MOFOfromMO

Think, it is your life!
Please be blesseth!



# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 5:33 pm

Checkme and Simian
This is it for you guys. You need to deliver something, since you have created all this expectation




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 20, 2008, 08:33:32 PM
FYI for those that need to know this:  I don't own this thread but, I have spent a great deal of time in it and should anyone feel the need to berate or insult any of our loyal posters in here that have spent countless hours researching and posting...take it up with me next time.  I am the Hall Monitor and I guarantee you I don't back down...that is why I am here after all this time. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 20, 2008, 08:42:53 PM
 Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:29 pm

I did not say an ex. Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.



I believe he used the word "affair"


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 20, 2008, 09:18:59 PM
Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:29 pm

I did not say an ex. Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.



I believe he used the word "affair"

Colombo, please provide the proof of the meeting between Natalee and Paulus prior to the night in question.  Also, show me where Paulus hosted a party.  That is the real sticking point...we never can prove a party...ever.  I don't think Natalee would even look in Paulus direction...he had to coax her in the casino video to even speak to him...so as of now I still don't buy it.  Natalee was not interested in Paulus van der Sloot.  No way!  Now she might look twice at GVC.  If she was interested in Paulus...I truly think one of her friends would have known.  But I will reserve a space just in case we find evidence in support of your theory. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 20, 2008, 09:39:01 PM
Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:29 pm

I did not say an ex. Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.



I believe he used the word "affair"

Colombo, please provide the proof of the meeting between Natalee and Paulus prior to the night in question.  Also, show me where Paulus hosted a party.  That is the real sticking point...we never can prove a party...ever.  I don't think Natalee would even look in Paulus direction...he had to coax her in the casino video to even speak to him...so as of now I still don't buy it.  Natalee was not interested in Paulus van der Sloot.  No way!  Now she might look twice at GVC.  If she was interested in Paulus...I truly think one of her friends would have known.  But I will reserve a space just in case we find evidence in support of your theory. 


ok-the sticking point....no party(IMO).......sometimes friends will cover for each other

the partygoers need to be pinched (for perjury?)



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: hotping on March 20, 2008, 10:04:33 PM
Hi Caps! How's it going in Your part of the world....I hope all is well!  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 20, 2008, 11:24:55 PM
Simian on June 22nd, 2005 5:29 pm

I did not say an ex. Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.



I believe he used the word "affair"

Colombo, please provide the proof of the meeting between Natalee and Paulus prior to the night in question.  Also, show me where Paulus hosted a party.  That is the real sticking point...we never can prove a party...ever.  I don't think Natalee would even look in Paulus direction...he had to coax her in the casino video to even speak to him...so as of now I still don't buy it.  Natalee was not interested in Paulus van der Sloot.  No way!  Now she might look twice at GVC.  If she was interested in Paulus...I truly think one of her friends would have known.  But I will reserve a space just in case we find evidence in support of your theory. 


ok-the sticking point....no party(IMO).......sometimes friends will cover for each other

the partygoers need to be pinched (for perjury?)



Ahhh!  Those darn sticking points have tripped me up often. LOL   Parts seem to fit various people at different times, only nothing fits everyone all of the time.  I thought LVR and even Caps agreed until we could not get the "met in the casino" part to fit. LOL  Then Freddy fit so well...but still trying to place him in the caisno also.  He did hang with Joran and that is one thing we can't establish with GVC.  But GVC was seen with Natalee.  I can on and on about all of our suspected 5th suspects.  A piece here and a piece there...we will figure this out... too many smart people in here not to.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 20, 2008, 11:59:28 PM
curiously, Simian does not use PVDS name until he knew (IMO) that it would hit the news:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05.
He had been brought in for questioning that day


He had to be let go  is the 5th suspect that is not mentioned by name.

From what i saw in a Nova interview PVDS said he took time off from his job himself. So as not to be thought of as a person with a conflict of interest. Judging by the chronological order of arrests he was indeed the 5th suspect. But for the life of me i just can't fit in the cool and crazy guy and him being the host of the party. Unless the party is supposed to mean the tragic chain of events. But then he is still not the cool and crazy guy
 

I do not know where to start:  But I will attempt this. I sent pics enhanced, resized and enlightened with different type lighting to Klassand and at one time to Debbie on BFN.  There is this one particular photo that was a scene in a bar with some dude that appeared to be sitting on a bar stool watching NH dance.  All you could see was her arm.  I saw first a large beer bottle first glance, then the dude with the fuzzed out face and figured someone is trying to screw with a picture.  I got to looking at it and it definitely was screwed.  I will skip a lot of details here and say this.  I got into taking small images off beer bottles, etc and enhancing them and seeing perps, etc.  One very clear (to me anyway) picture if of GVC and there is a "flame" close to his face.  The picture rotated became another scene with a girl lying face down, very injured, and the arm that was supposed to be on stage is lying accross a case of beer bottles with what appears to be sneaker or tire marks on them.  I figure by now the FBI and those working on this case should have the pictures and do a lot better job than I have on them.  They have the equipment.  The shoe marks that appear on the arm do fit a style of shoe said to be worn by the prime suspect.  There is all kinds of evidence.  The beer bottle picture shows enough that it appears to have caught the bullet coming out of a gun from a camer within the bar that photographed this and was later what some are calling "photoshopped."  They however failed to get the little images on the beer bottles and they tell a tell.  That is all I can say for now, but will answer questions about this.  I wanted to tell you all because I have kept this silent for almost three years and, the beer bottle thing for maybe two.  No one seems to be moving on this and it could be because Wood, and the others may or may not have been able to pull down the information on the pictures where they could be seen in the right program.  The Pain Shot Pro will bring them down nicely under JPEG.  They should be handled in JPEG as anything else may nor may not give what clarity there is.  I am just tired and have been trying not to post graphic pictures or post any pictures that would injure the family emotionally and/or give cause to help the other parties.  It seems our own Justice Department is failing in their job of getting this case closed.  Why?  Jack b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 21, 2008, 12:19:25 AM
Lala’s…do you remember anything about the Rainbow Warriors?…A Milton Ponson…is he the father of the of the 2 guys from the Racquet Club? An older woman tied in there as well. Could be the Mom.

Buckeye just posted about the Rainbow Warriors and I recognized the name. There was discussion early on in this thread before I started posting here. I will go back later and see if I can find the posts…just thought you may have a quick answer.(that darned Racquet Club again)...LOL

TIA

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2258.0

 

It seems someone wrote very recently that Freddy's mom had some kind of directorhip at the recquet club.   j/b


It was me jackb...but it was SC Bubali and it was checked out the other night on the main thread and she is no longer listed on the list of businesses.

I have a post that said that she was listed as Dutch on an earlier list and wanted to verify it.

Now I am going with Dutch, as the poster read it and would have no reason to say otherwise when she posted a link with this info on it.

By the way...the Grandfather of Aruban tennis is Venezuelan, Humphrey Hose...who would have guessed!
  I did not make the "It's me Jackb quote."  If someone uses my name again to quote, I will mess your computer up so bad you will NEVER have use for it again.  Do it as you will.  I don't put up with that crap.  This IS me Jackb

Jackb - this is a warning. Next time you will be put on a timeout.  I suggest you read more carefully and think before posting rediculous threats ... SHE WAS RESPONDING TO YOU, NOT IMPERSONATING YOU(klaasend)

What a charming post, jackb.   ::MonkeyEek::

I hope your next post will be an apology directed personally to this hard working monkey who spends many hours of her day searching and researching details to enlighten all those who struggle to decipher these cryptic posts.  She comes up with some very pertinent and interesting facts, far ahead of the preposterous claims made in some of your rambling efforts.

It is an unwritten rule on blogs to attack the post and not the poster.
I have seen posters banned from blogs for a lot less than your comments above.

  I did apologize all over the place.  I screwed up because as I said it was an honest mistake on my part, but a bit overreactive.  I would come nearer giving someone a computer than messing their's up if you knew me.  I think that girl is a sweet girl, and I never even looked to see to wrote it.  All I saw was someone said "It is me, Jack b" and I went into a protect the pics mode.  I know I am just a wreck, myself for spending every spare moment trying to "fight city hall" with this case.  God only knows how the parents and kin of NH stand up under this.  Jackb

I support that apology is required (hope my computer lives)
/quote]  I did apologize all over the place.  I screwed up because as I said it was an honest mistake on my part, but a bit over reactive.  I would come nearer giving someone a computer than messing their's up if you knew me.  I think that girl is a sweet girl, and I never even looked to see to wrote it.  All I saw was someone said "It is me, Jack b" and I went into a protect the pics mode.  I know I am just a wreck, myself for spending every spare moment trying to "fight city hall" with this case.  God only knows how the parents and kin of NH stand up under this. I have got to get this information out that I have as it seems that whomever is sitting on it does not know what to do with it or is not using the right programs to bring down the images.   Jackb


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 21, 2008, 01:31:41 AM

thank you buckeye and *******

for clearing up my confusion re discovery log data:
whether or not we had confiirmation of LvR's interrogation

canceling lobotomy appt  :wink:





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 21, 2008, 01:39:07 AM
PLEASE!! Let's read Simian in context...there are things in some of the quotes above that is not in the original quote ... There is no mention of Paulus in this conversation of Simian's ... I like to read it as it was originally written. 

thank you!!!

I been like: WTH ... ?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05.
He had been brought in for questioning that day






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 21, 2008, 01:46:57 AM
5th said he was home with some friends until the morning

the partygoers need to be pinched (perjury?)

pinched/slang for arrested = perjury/false witness statement?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 21, 2008, 01:59:22 AM

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/17/

June 17, 2005

BREAKING NEWS: 4th Person Arrested in Natalee Holloway case
(CORRECTION NO 5th PERSON)

9:14am **** UPDATE ****
4th arrest made in Natalee Holloway case

At 9:50 am: MSNBC & Fox have just reported the arrest of a fourth suspect. A 27 year old man.

Fox News now reporting: Sources: 4th Person Arrested in Aruba Mystery

From the AP: Fourth Person Detained in Holloway Disappearance

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) - A fourth person has been detained in Aruba in the disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway, authorities announced Friday. The person “suspected of being involved” in Holloway’s disappearance was identified by the attorney general’s office only as a 26-year-old with the initials S.G.C.

further down the page:

UPDATE- CORRECTION
Fifth person was detained, but released last night.

last night precedes this morning ...
detainment/release last night = 4th suspect

morning arrest = 5th

the music man waltzed away?




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: CapsLockWizard on March 21, 2008, 02:48:16 AM
LALA: Klassend:

Do you have any of Info on the Band that play in the Holiday Inn Casino


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 21, 2008, 06:32:08 AM
LALA: Klassend:

Do you have any of Info on the Band that play in the Holiday Inn Casino


No clue at all.  I am sure if it is out there someone will know. Actually,never thought about a band in the casino before. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 21, 2008, 06:48:42 AM

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/17/

June 17, 2005

BREAKING NEWS: 4th Person Arrested in Natalee Holloway case
(CORRECTION NO 5th PERSON)

9:14am **** UPDATE ****
4th arrest made in Natalee Holloway case

At 9:50 am: MSNBC & Fox have just reported the arrest of a fourth suspect. A 27 year old man.

Fox News now reporting: Sources: 4th Person Arrested in Aruba Mystery

From the AP: Fourth Person Detained in Holloway Disappearance

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) - A fourth person has been detained in Aruba in the disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway, authorities announced Friday. The person “suspected of being involved” in Holloway’s disappearance was identified by the attorney general’s office only as a 26-year-old with the initials S.G.C.

further down the page:

UPDATE- CORRECTION
Fifth person was detained, but released last night.

last night precedes this morning ...
detainment/release last night = 4th suspect

morning arrest = 5th

the music man waltzed away?







Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05.
He had been brought in for questioning that day


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 21, 2008, 01:16:55 PM

thank you buckeye and *******

for clearing up my confusion re discovery log data:
whether or not we had confiirmation of LvR's interrogation

canceling lobotomy appt  :wink:





Keep in mind those discovery logs are incomplete.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on March 21, 2008, 01:45:05 PM
I would really like to know who Steve Croes parents are.  Even if he isn't the 5th, I think it might shed some light into why he involved himself with the case to begin with.  We know that he is friends with GVC, was his original lie that confirmed the JVDS/K2 beginning alibi of dropping Natalee off an effort to draw attention away from GVC?  I don't believe his story of overhearing Deepak on the phone at the internet cafe talking about the HI dropoff story as his only reason for inserting himself in the case to begin with.  There's more to it.  Have there been any hints as to who his parents are that I've missed?  There was a Hendrik Croes in the Solagnier/genaruba geneology information; but not in recent history.  I'm curious as to if his purpose of supporting the original alibi might not have been to protect the "elders", if not GVC.  SS seems to have a better source of geneology information than I'm able to find.  If he reads this maybe he will see what he can find.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on March 21, 2008, 01:56:49 PM
I would really like to know who Steve Croes parents are.  Even if he isn't the 5th, I think it might shed some light into why he involved himself with the case to begin with.  We know that he is friends with GVC, was his original lie that confirmed the JVDS/K2 beginning alibi of dropping Natalee off an effort to draw attention away from GVC?  I don't believe his story of overhearing Deepak on the phone at the internet cafe talking about the HI dropoff story as his only reason for inserting himself in the case to begin with.  There's more to it.  Have there been any hints as to who his parents are that I've missed?  There was a Hendrik Croes in the Solagnier/genaruba geneology information; but not in recent history.  I'm curious as to if his purpose of supporting the original alibi might not have been to protect the "elders", if not GVC.  SS seems to have a better source of geneology information than I'm able to find.  If he reads this maybe he will see what he can find.
The reason I mentioned the Solagnier/genaruba information is that IMO Finbar led us there to discover something about Steve Croes being the 5th or find an ex-monkey.  If it was to discover info about Steve Croes, the last name of the uncle who is retired ALE was spelled Solognier; plus the uncle stated in news transcripts that Steve was his nephew by relation to his wife.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Do we have any idea what the grandparents names are? Or Rufo Solognier's wife's maiden name?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on March 21, 2008, 04:40:10 PM
LALA: Klassend:

Do you have any of Info on the Band that play in the Holiday Inn Casino


No clue at all.  I am sure if it is out there someone will know. Actually,never thought about a band in the casino before. LOL

The only thing I can find is it's called the "Excelsior Casino Band" and it's hear the bar area.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 21, 2008, 09:30:21 PM
curiously, Simian does not use PVDS name until he knew (IMO) that it would hit the news:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05.
He had been brought in for questioning that day


He had to be let go  is the 5th suspect that is not mentioned by name.

From what i saw in a Nova interview PVDS said he took time off from his job himself. So as not to be thought of as a person with a conflict of interest. Judging by the chronological order of arrests he was indeed the 5th suspect. But for the life of me i just can't fit in the cool and crazy guy and him being the host of the party. Unless the party is supposed to mean the tragic chain of events. But then he is still not the cool and crazy guy

FWIW - the time difference between Paulus' suspension on 17th and Simian's post on the 22nd leads me to believe that it is another person to which Simian refers.

He had to be let go

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:30 pm
Paulus has been picked up.


Maybe it meant he had to be let go from jail, such as was Guido and some of the other ones who never was in jail.

Let go from a job:  PVs, SC, GVC, Guido, Posner left too, perhaps let go in a job or let go from jail as we do not know for sure they quit.  Someone wrote that GVC was no longer working beach patrol at the time, but others say he was.  He had on a uniform in the "searching for NH" group.  Those people are the biggest liars in the world.  They should start a Liars Club of Aruba.  It is a wonder half aren't starved to death thinking their mama was lying when she called them to supper.   Jack/b


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 21, 2008, 09:36:32 PM

Info on Jean Akers

Mum left these links that must contain some info about Akers...I didn't find much in them though.  I am still looking at her older posts to find some of her better info. 

http://www.bcnavyleague.org/PressReleases/SeaPowerMagJuly05.htm

On May 7, the council hosted a gala dinner at the Divi Resort that was
attended by representatives from the American Embassy in Barbados and
the American Consulate in Curacao. Vice-Consul Jean Akers from Curacao
attended with her mother, Barbara. American Vice-Consul Donald Carroll
from Barbados and his wife, Georgina, made their first visit to St.
Maarten/St. Martin for the event.
++++

Sinclaire Language Award Winners 2007

http://www.afsa.org/awards/awardwinners_sinclaire2007.cfm

AFSA Announces the Winners of the 2007 Matilda W. Sinclaire
AwardsProficiency in foreign languages is one of the most valuable and
important skills in today’s Foreign Service.  AFSA’s Sinclaire Language
Awards program honors language students for outstanding accomplishments
in the study of a “hard” language and their associated cultures.
Candidates for the award are nominated by the language-training
supervisors at the FSI School of Language, or by the language
instructors at the field schools. They are selected by a committee
composed of volunteer AFSA members, a member of the Governing Board who
serves as chairman and the AFSA Coordinator for Professional Issues.
Each of the winners receives a check for $1,000 from the Matilda W.
Sinclaire Endowment and a certificate of recognition signed by the AFSA
President and the chair of the AFSA Awards committee. In an unusual
move, the committee decided to award one of this year’s recipients,
Drew Schufletowski, an additional $500, in recognition of his
extraordinary accomplishment.  He is the only foreign language student
in Polish to achieve outstanding success while enrolled solely as an
online student for three semesters.  During his testing at FSI, he
received a score of 4 in speaking and a 4 in reading.  He achieved
this while working full-time with the U.S. Mission to the U.N.  The
number of nominations submitted during 2007 were the most ever received
by AFSA.  A total of 21 nominations were considered by the committee.
The languages included Chinese, Japanese, Dari, Farsi, Hungarian,
Polish, Lithuanian and Ukrainian. AFSA congratulates the 16 winners of
this year’s Sinclaire Language Award, and commends the School of
Language Studies at FSI for its dedication in preparing students of
hard languages for the intense challenges of modern diplomacy. This
year’s winners are:
Kelly Adams-Smith     Bulgarian
Mark Thornburg     Chinese-Mandarin
Eric Barboriak     Chinese-Mandarin
Carleton Bulkin     Dari
Ethan Chorin     Farsi
Jeffrey Hovenier     Greek
Carol Kalin     Greek
Berenice Mariscal     Greek
Robert Mearkle     Hungarian
Edward Kwok Hee Dong     Japanese
Jean E. Akers     Khmer ...............*****
Rona Rathod     Lithuanian
Worth Anderson     Polish
Drew Schufletowski     Polish
Christine P. Jackson     Tagalog
Viktor Karabin     Ukrainian

Here is the link to the LCD where her name comes up shortly after we began discussing the DEA agent Williams.  I will continue to look for one link in particular that was quite detailed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2417.740


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: jackb on March 21, 2008, 09:38:45 PM
I would really like to know who Steve Croes parents are.  Even if he isn't the 5th, I think it might shed some light into why he involved himself with the case to begin with.  We know that he is friends with GVC, was his original lie that confirmed the JVDS/K2 beginning alibi of dropping Natalee off an effort to draw attention away from GVC?  I don't believe his story of overhearing Deepak on the phone at the internet cafe talking about the HI dropoff story as his only reason for inserting himself in the case to begin with.  There's more to it.  Have there been any hints as to who his parents are that I've missed?  There was a Hendrik Croes in the Solagnier/genaruba geneology information; but not in recent history.  I'm curious as to if his purpose of supporting the original alibi might not have been to protect the "elders", if not GVC.  SS seems to have a better source of geneology information than I'm able to find.  If he reads this maybe he will see what he can find.
The reason I mentioned the Solagnier/genaruba information is that IMO Finbar led us there to discover something about Steve Croes being the 5th or find an ex-monkey.  If it was to discover info about Steve Croes, the last name of the uncle who is retired ALE was spelled Solognier; plus the uncle stated in news transcripts that Steve was his nephew by relation to his wife.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Do we have any idea what the grandparents names are? Or Rufo Solognier's wife's maiden name?

I have read that Steve Croes father and Palus played music together.  Lately, then or when I do not know.   You might find out who played in the musical group with PVs.   jackb


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: yapperz1 on March 21, 2008, 09:48:33 PM
My question is..DOES Lorenzo fit the criteria for the 5th suspect????
I have never been able to rule him out.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: SS on March 21, 2008, 10:16:41 PM
This is the cryptic information that Fin gave us about the ancestral tree of the fifth suspect. The names in the genealogy tree seemed to point toward Steve Croes and his uncle/neighbor Rufo Solognier.  There are several words in the cryptic clues that still have no meaning, including ex-monkey. The genealogy data that was found is very old with many generations missing between the recorded data and present family members. There was also information found about the connection between Alex Salangier and Jossy Mansur regardling the illegal tobacco and drug smuggling. 

http://www.publicintegrity.org/Report.aspx?aid=355
http://www.public-i.org/Content.aspx?src=search&context=article&id=579
http://duncan.gn.apc.org/bat/Health_Committee_Evidence_1.htm
http://duncan.gn.apc.org/bat/Health_Committee_Evidence_1.htm

3/17/08 Finbar
Yes, the Mormons have a great database. Info only good as those who submit lineage, or those two guys on the bikes have time to find. There are others.

Perhaps, to find more fruit, one might need to seek another family tree.

Maybe shake the tree of a retired ex-polis and see what kinda flavour falls out.

Who knows...it may lead to the fifth and a monkey.

3/18/08 Finbar
Flip tha coin again, sour mash gal.

There is more than one retired polis....

Maybe search: Solagnier + genaruba
=

"...Frenchman...."
"Blue blood...."
"Cousins"
"Crows"
"South American"
"Curacao"
"grandmother"
"Insurance"
"Blogs"
"ALE"
"Ex-monkey"

Fin3/19/08
Not Shango.

Search: Solaganier + genaruba

ah ... Tio Rufo, SGC's next door neighbor? Rufo... rings a bell. Is he a neighbour?
fin thinks SGC the 5th? Why would he lie? Any reasons? Any relations to an ex-monkey?
the monkey is ex/not current? Posts the cage no more.

RUFO SOLOGNIER
Retired ALE Police Chief

Now that rings a louder bell.

No typos in

Search: Solagnier + genaruba.

Do names through genealogy histories always stay the same?

The ex-monkey is not a Crows, but is related to Crows.

Steve Crows is not the ex-monkey, but maybe related to one.

Shake the Solagnier + genaruba and an ex-monkey will fall out of the tree.

Rufo cannot find a razor, think he could type?

Two words above to be searched with a "+" in between. Does the s-engine still work?


This is the search result for Solagnier + genaruba.

108.   Nicolaas Croes, born 1732 in Curaçao103.  He was the son of 216. Lourens Croes and 217. Susanna van der Westen.  He married 109. Maria Elizabeth van der Biest 01 november 1770103.
109.  Maria Elizabeth van der Biest  She was the daughter of 218. Harmen van der Biest and 219. Suzanna van der Woestijne.

Children of Nicolaas Croes and Maria Biest are:
  i. Hendrik Croes, born 15 oktober 1769104; died 09 oktober 1854 in Aruba104; married Anna Clara Poppe 16 augustus 1826 in Aruba105; born 25 februari 1773106; died 26 september 1841 in Aruba106.
  ii. Lourens Croes, born 08 januari 1777107; died 12 augustus 1850 in Aruba108; married Magdalena Specht 1801109; died Bef. 1850110.
  iii. Regina Jacomina Croes, born 14 oktober 1781111; died Bef. 1831111; married Michel Benoit Solagnier; born 09 juni 1754 in Marseille, France112; died 28 april 1831 in Aruba112.
54 iv. Jan van der Biest Croes, born 12 november 1783; died 20 juni 1859 in Aruba; married Maria Elizabeth Specht 27 augustus 1834 in Aruba.

27 in Aruba80; born 10 september 1798 in Aruba81; died 08 november 1881 in Aruba81.
  ii. Jan Pieter Croes, born 15 februari 1812 in Aruba82; died 28 december 1904 in Aruba82; married Sarah Zagaria Castro 11 november 1857 in Aruba83; born Abt. 1823 in Aruba84; died 01 november 1908 in Aruba84.
28 iii. Casper Theodorus Croes, born 17 mei 1825 in Aruba; died 13 juli 1889 in Aruba; married Regina Jacomina Ravine 11 augustus 1847 in Aruba.


58.  Paulus Ravine, born 06 april 1794 in Aruba85; died 13 juli 1841 in Aruba85.  He married 59. Maria Margaretha Solagnier 16 augustus 1826 in Aruba86.
59.  Maria Margaretha Solagnier, born 25 mei 180487; died 29 oktober 1861 in Aruba87.  She was the daughter of 118. Michel Benoit Solagnier and 119. Regina Jacomina Croes.

Child of Paulus Ravine and Maria Solagnier is:
29 i. Regina Jacomina Ravine, born Abt. 1824 in Aruba; died 18 oktober 1897 in Aruba; married Casper Theodorus Croes 11 augustus 1847 in Aruba.

http://www.geocities.com/genaruba/Page5_29.html

28.   Casper Theodorus Croes, born 17 mei 1825 in Aruba46; died 13 juli 1889 in Aruba46.  He was the son of 56. Frans Muller Croes and 57. Catharina Theresa Tromp.  He married 29. Regina Jacomina Ravine 11 augustus 1847 in Aruba47.
29.  Regina Jacomina Ravine, born Abt. 1824 in Aruba48; died 18 oktober 1897 in Aruba48.  She was the daughter of 58. Paulus Ravine and 59. Maria Margaretha Solagnier.

Children of Casper Croes and Regina Ravine are:
  i. Jan Croes, born 11 januari 1848 in Aruba49; died 02 januari 1918 in Aruba50; married Abeona Croes 23 juni 1869 in Aruba51; born 19 oktober 1851 in Aruba52; died 06 oktober 1926 in Aruba53.
14 ii. Johannes Nicolaas Croes, born 29 september 1863 in Aruba; died 23 maart 1947 in Aruba; married Theolinda Robustiana Lampe 24 september 1884 in Aruba.

http://www.geocities.com/genaruba/Page12_29.html

118.   Michel Benoit Solagnier, born 09 juni 1754 in Marseille, France112; died 28 april 1831 in Aruba112.  He married 119. Regina Jacomina Croes.
119.  Regina Jacomina Croes, born 14 oktober 1781113; died Bef. 1831113.  She was the daughter of 108. Nicolaas Croes and 109. Maria Elizabeth van der Biest.

Child of Michel Solagnier and Regina Croes is:
59 i. Maria Margaretha Solagnier, born 25 mei 1804; died 29 oktober 1861 in Aruba; married Paulus Ravine 16 augustus 1826 in Aruba.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on March 21, 2008, 11:17:37 PM

Thanks SS, I appreciate your time!  I see that you came up with the same thing as I on Finbars research suggestion. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 21, 2008, 11:20:36 PM
Steve Croes is the 4th person arrested...well if you don't count the SG, which had been released by the time Simian was speaking of them. 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 22, 2008, 12:54:13 AM
Steve Croes is the 4th person arrested...well if you don't count the SG, which had been released by the time Simian was speaking of them. 

but what about the un-named person
who was detained/released the previous night?

detain/arrest: synonyms which share common definition

you say po ta to, I say po tah to ...
they fry up the same

someone detained musta earned suspect status



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: SS on March 22, 2008, 08:34:25 AM
I would really like to know who Steve Croes parents are.  Even if he isn't the 5th, I think it might shed some light into why he involved himself with the case to begin with.  We know that he is friends with GVC, was his original lie that confirmed the JVDS/K2 beginning alibi of dropping Natalee off an effort to draw attention away from GVC?  I don't believe his story of overhearing Deepak on the phone at the internet cafe talking about the HI dropoff story as his only reason for inserting himself in the case to begin with.  There's more to it.  Have there been any hints as to who his parents are that I've missed?  There was a Hendrik Croes in the Solagnier/genaruba geneology information; but not in recent history.  I'm curious as to if his purpose of supporting the original alibi might not have been to protect the "elders", if not GVC.  SS seems to have a better source of geneology information than I'm able to find.  If he reads this maybe he will see what he can find.


Hi Texasmom,  I have subscription databases to many genealogy libraries, but I am finding it very difficult to locate additional information about these people.  The vital records for Aruba and Curacao aren't online.  There are quite a few generations missing between what we found and the present living individuals.  I somehow got the impression from Fin that we should be able to see a name and recognize it.  Maybe the suspect has been named after a great great grandparent.   Fin also mentioned something about a grandmother.  The only way that the name of a grandmother would be in the mix that I found, would be if the fifth suspect is quite old himself.  (I'm a she!)




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 22, 2008, 08:40:16 AM
Maybe this was brought up before, but anyway.....

If the general belief is that Simian and Merian Ernest are one and the same
then Alcazar's Revenge makes another good candidate for being simian

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=212df9d42a5568a77557dead318cc13b&topic=1186.0

He has some interesting posts:

Alcazar's Revenge

Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:05 am Post subject: Van Rijn
________________________________________
I do not understand the fixation on Van Rijn. The Police eliminated him as a suspect after extensive harassment. They even literally took his boat, cars and house apart.

He was brought in for questioning a couple of times, but somehow this was not brought in the limelight by the interviews on TV.

His father/family used to own the Volkswagen dealership. They might have sold part of it or completely. He known for off-the-wall behaviour.

Alcazar's Revenge

Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:24 am Post subject: Rape?
________________________________________
I hear Shango, You haven't seen one piece of legal document on anything. So in that regard you should keep your opinion to yourself.

Why you haven't seen his face on TV, because he was never pointed to by the Twitty's. That is why.

It is a public secret that the casino employees pointed to him as being involved with Natalee and the group during their stay in Aruba. Even alluding to a romantic involvement with Natalee.


At the same time Beth Twitty states that Joran raped her daughter, because she was a virgin. That even if the sex was consensual it was still rape to her.


The reason i think he could be simian/merian is the references in his posts to characters from the TinTin comic book series. For example Alcazar, picaros, tapioca, at one point he says "duizend bommen en granaten" which is a line often used in those comic books by one of the characters.

another post:

Alcazar's Revenge
Joined: 03 Aug 2005

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 5:03 pm Post subject: Choose sides...

It's helpful to do so. It avoids embarrassment.

The Shivas will be pinched again. Reset your clocks as it may happen before the ides of August.

Do not underestimate the Babylonians. That has been your mistake all along. The words exchanged with the Yellowhammer will haunt Cain. The question is if he will be Abel to tell the truth.

Remember that the block and the hammer are not owned by the Babylonians. Et tu, De Wit?

The whisperer is back on the line. Weak,...but still hungry. Never broken. In the Nemean sense.

"Death to Tapioca!"


Now for the off the wall part.....

I googled Alczars revenge and this came up, off the wall like i said...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Bishop

Mary Bishop was a fictional character on the American soap opera General Hospital.

some quotes from the wiki page:

Mary discovered that the stranger Nikolas spoke to was Lorenzo Alcazar
They painted Emily as a scorned lover that couldn't let go of Connor.
Mary received her medication and went into cardiac arrest and later died. It was discovered that Mary had been given the wrong medication. Suspicion fell on Emily since she was alone with the medicine cart and threatened Mary. The mystery of her murder was never solved, although many believe she was killed by Lorenzo Alcazar

Probably nothing but some of the terms used jumped out

just a thought


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: SS on March 22, 2008, 08:45:19 AM
curiously, Simian does not use PVDS name until he knew (IMO) that it would hit the news:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05.
He had been brought in for questioning that day


He had to be let go  is the 5th suspect that is not mentioned by name.

From what i saw in a Nova interview PVDS said he took time off from his job himself. So as not to be thought of as a person with a conflict of interest. Judging by the chronological order of arrests he was indeed the 5th suspect. But for the life of me i just can't fit in the cool and crazy guy and him being the host of the party. Unless the party is supposed to mean the tragic chain of events. But then he is still not the cool and crazy guy

FWIW - the time difference between Paulus' suspension on 17th and Simian's post on the 22nd leads me to believe that it is another person to which Simian refers.

He had to be let go

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:30 pm
Paulus has been picked up.


Maybe it meant he had to be let go from jail, such as was Guido and some of the other ones who never was in jail.

Let go from a job:  PVs, SC, GVC, Guido, Posner left too, perhaps let go in a job or let go from jail as we do not know for sure they quit.  Someone wrote that GVC was no longer working beach patrol at the time, but others say he was.  He had on a uniform in the "searching for NH" group.  Those people are the biggest liars in the world.  They should start a Liars Club of Aruba.  It is a wonder half aren't starved to death thinking their mama was lying when she called them to supper.   Jack/b



Hi Jack,

A few days ago, I put about six Aruban newspaper articles and a statement from GVCs parents.  GVC was no longer working with security.  He was working for a beach boating company and was referred to as a "beach bum".  The family also denied any connections to the security service at the Holiday Inn and their company.  I wonder what that was all about?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 22, 2008, 08:49:45 AM
Steve Croes is the 4th person arrested...well if you don't count the SG, which had been released by the time Simian was speaking of them. 

but what about the un-named person
who was detained/released the previous night?

detain/arrest: synonyms which share common definition

you say po ta to, I say po tah to ...
they fry up the same

someone detained musta earned suspect status



consecutive Simian posts-need to check....can someone check-is this the point at which #5 has become PVDS????

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05.
He had been brought in for questioning that day


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 22, 2008, 08:52:10 AM
Fifth suspect in custody after U.S. teen's disappearance
Thursday, June 23, 2005; Posted: 10:01 p.m. EDT (02:01 GMT)
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/aruba.holloway/index.html



Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 22, 2008, 09:07:33 AM
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05.
He had been brought in for questioning that day

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:30 pm
Paulus has been picked up.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: SS on March 22, 2008, 10:05:00 AM
I'm not sure that we have identified all of the information that Fin was giving us.  These are the surnames that I found in the source which Fin gave.  The names are Croes, van der Westen, van der Biest, van der Woestijne, Poppe, Specht, Solagnier, Zagaria, Castro, Ravine, Tromp, and Lampe.

This is the list that Fin gave us.  We haven't figured out very much of it

Retired ex-polis - Rufo Solognier (uncle and neighbor of Steve Cores)
Blue Blood - ?
Cousins - ?
Crows - Steve Cores (?)
Curacao - ?
Grandmother - ?
Insurance - ?
Blogs - ?
ALE - ?
ex-monkey - no longer posts on SM

Fin wanted us to ask why SGC would lie, and what relations he has to an ex-monkey.
Who is Fin? He didn't join this forum until February.  Was he a former forum member?  How would he know this information about former posters?  I haven't seen Fin post since he gave these cryptic clues. I very quickly identified that Fin knows how genealogy data is gathered.  He knew how LDS gets their information, which might have gone over many monkey heads.  He knew about individuals submitting lineages and the "two on the bike".  Fin has done genealogy research. I think we ned to take a good look a Fin's clues again.

Yes, the Mormons have a great database. Info only good as those who submit lineage, or those two guys on the bikes have time to find. There are others.

Perhaps, to find more fruit, one might need to seek another family tree.

Maybe shake the tree of a retired ex-polis and see what kinda flavour falls out.

Who knows...it may lead to the fifth and a monkey.

Flip tha coin again, sour mash gal.

There is more than one retired polis....

Maybe search: Solagnier + genaruba

ah ... Tio Rufo, SGC's next door neighbor? Rufo... rings a bell. Is he a neighbour?
fin thinks SGC the 5th? Why would he lie? Any reasons? Any relations to an ex-monkey?

the monkey is ex/not current? Posts the cage no more.

RUFO SOLOGNIER
Retired ALE Police Chief

Now that rings a louder bell.

No typos in

Search: Solagnier + genaruba.

Do names through genealogy histories always stay the same?

The ex-monkey is not a Crows, but is related to Crows.

Steve Crows is not the ex-monkey, but maybe related to one.

Shake the Solagnier + genaruba and an ex-monkey will fall out of the tree.

Rufo cannot find a razor, think he could type?

Two words above to be searched with a "+" in between. Does the s-engine still work?

Fin


Am I sour mash girl?  ::MonkeyHaHa::  I keep focusing on the changes in the Solagnier spelling.  The family that now spells it Solognier is Rufo.  The family that still spells it Solagnier is the one that was involved in smuggling with the Harms family and Jossy Mansur.  Rufo can't find a razor and typing is also of interest.






Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 22, 2008, 10:10:38 AM
Steve Croes is the 4th person arrested...well if you don't count the SG, which had been released by the time Simian was speaking of them. 

but what about the un-named person
who was detained/released the previous night?

detain/arrest: synonyms which share common definition

you say po ta to, I say po tah to ...
they fry up the same

someone detained musta earned suspect status




Finngirl…but what about the one from the 11th. that didn’t happen? It was reported on and posted about on more than one board!

Also according to the Kalpoe car tape of 6/22, Freddy was why they were arrested. Only way for that to happen was if Freddy spoke to ALE prior to 6/9, which we have no record of.

All of this would of course change who is #5…..


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: SS on March 22, 2008, 11:06:46 AM
I found some research on descendants of Solangier family that was done by Diandre Alders. Do any of these names mean anything to anyone?

1 Michel Benoit SOLAGNIER b: 9 Jun 1754 d: 28 Apr 1831
  + Regina Jacomina CROES b: 14 Oct 1781 d: Bef 1831
    2 Maria Margaretha SOLAGNIER b: 25 May 1804 d: 29 Oct 1861
      + Paulus RAVINE b: 6 Apr 1790 d: 20 Oct 1824
        3 Regina Jacomina RAVINE b: Abt 1828 d: 18 Oct 1897
          + Casper Theodorus CROES b: 17 May 1825 d: 13 Jul 1889
            4 Jan CROES b: 11 Jan 1848 d: 2 Jan 1918
              + Abeona CROES b: 19 Oct 1851 d: 6 Oct 1926
                5 Jacobo CROES b: 18 Jan 1877 d: 9 Dec 1918
                  + Anna Elisabeth CROES b: 24 Sep 1879 d: 16 May 1924
                    6 Inovia Beltranda CROES b: 10 Oct 1904 d: 4 Aug 1979
                      + Constantino Remaclo ALDERS b: 13 Sep 1881 d: 15 Jun 1965
            4 Johannes Nicolaas CROES b: 29 Sep 1863 d: 23 Mar 1947
              + Theolinda Robustiana LAMPE b: 14 Mar 1864 d: 2 Oct 1931
                5 Maria Regina CROES b: 30 Dec 1906 d: 9 Aug 1991
                  + Ezau Albrecht HENRIQUEZ b: 13 Jan 1904 d: 14 Mar 1975
                    6 Living HENRIQUEZ
                      + Living ALDERS


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: SS on March 22, 2008, 11:29:29 AM
This means that the daughter of Ezau and Marie Henriques married the son of Constantino and Inovia Alders.  Their names aren’t given because they are still alive.
Could Inovia Croes or Maria Cores be Fin’s grandmother?

·  ID: I49616985
·  Name: Living HENRIQUEZ
·  Sex: F

Father: Ezau Albrecht HENRIQUEZ b: 13 Jan 1904 in Aruba
Mother: Maria Regina CROES b: 30 Dec 1906 in Aruba

Marriage 1 Living ALDERS
Children
1.    Living ALDERS

·  ID: I49616984
·  Name: Living ALDERS
·  Sex: M

Father: Constantino Remaclo ALDERS b: 13 Sep 1881 in Kralendijk, Bonaire
Mother: Inovia Beltranda CROES b: 10 Oct 1904 in Aruba

Marriage 1 Living HENRIQUEZ
Children
1.    Living ALDERS

 ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 22, 2008, 11:55:21 AM
I have those also: ::MonkeyWink::

Alcazar's Revenge

Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:05 am Post subject: Van Rijn
________________________________________
I do not understand the fixation on Van Rijn. The Police eliminated him as a suspect after extensive harassment. They even literally took his boat, cars and house apart.

He was brought in for questioning a couple of times, but somehow this was not brought in the limelight by the interviews on TV.

His father/family used to own the Volkswagen dealership. They might have sold part of it or completely. He known for off-the-wall behaviour.

Alcazar's Revenge

Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:24 am Post subject: Rape?
________________________________________
I hear Shango, You haven't seen one piece of legal document on anything. So in that regard you should keep your opinion to yourself.

Why you haven't seen his face on TV, because he was never pointed to by the Twitty's. That is why.

It is a public secret that the casino employees pointed to him as being involved with Natalee and the group during their stay in Aruba. Even alluding to a romantic involvement with Natalee.

At the same time Beth Twitty states that Joran raped her daughter, because she was a virgin. That even if the sex was consensual it was still rape to her.

Alcazar's Revenge

Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:27 am Post subject: Going to school...
______________________________________
How did Joran qualify?

He is a straight A, honor student. Kind of like Natalee, without the cheerleader bit.

Alcazar's Revenge

Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:03 am Post subject: Raids
_____________________________________
Raids on and visits by the Police to Van Rijn's home and his mother's were widely documented with pictures in Aruban newspapers.

Even the fact that when they busted into his house they found him crouched under the kitchen table begging not to be hurt.

On another note, this week started with newspapers full of attitudes towards everybody involved in this case.

Alcazar's Revenge

Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:18 am Post subject: Aruban Newspapers
________________________________________
Diario and Bondia Aruba both posted telelens pictures of the police at his mother's house.

I believe it was in the week right after the trio's arrest.

This week started with reports of Texas Equusearch destroying nesting grounds of protected turtles. A lot of unhappy people. This is the umpteenth time they have breached their agreement with the authorities.

Alcazar's Revenge

Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:35 am Post subject: TIP
______________________________________
I do not know, but there is a group of locals who have stated that they found new evidence of the week before the disappearance. They call themselves Team Investigativo Priva (TIP).

This TIP group of people are indicating that they are out to proof that Natalee's case is similar to Max Devries's. Max has been found living with friends in Brazil. Max's mother has apparently been arrested by the FBI.

There is also a possibility of a slander case against Tim Miller since he said he would make Paulus van der Sloot’s life impossible.

Joran will turn 18 this Saturday and the Police are trying to bridge these couple of days so they can move the interrogation in a new direction as soon as he loses his privileges as a minor.

Alcazar's Revenge

Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:51 am Post subject: On-line Newspapers

________________________________________
You can check awe AweMainta for those TIP articles. Their counter English publication is called AM.

Yesterday there was an article stating that TJ Ward's PI license had expired some 6 years ago.

Alcazar's Revenge

Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:18 pm Post subject: Tight lipped
________________________________________
Why would anybody come out? Get your face plastered over the Internet with accusations of cover-up and drugs and what not. Especially if your innocent.

It has been all over local media with the statements of the Casino employees. You are being cheated by the tabloid news of CNN and Fox.

By the way, the apparently the mobile phone grids do not place any of the trio near Savaneta. Savaneta is where Van Rijn's house is.

Jan van der Straaten left because his time was up. He should have retired long ago. He has been with the Dutch and Aruban police a combined 30 years. His retirement was very much publicized in the press and overwhelmingly the community regrets that he had to retire. It has nothing to do with the case. Since early this year it was announced.

Alcazar's Revenge

Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:29 pm Post subject: Defamation
________________________________________
I hear Shango, "slander" is spoken defamation. Tim Miller's words are defamatory towards Paulus van de Sloot and tarnish his reputation. Tim Miller could be called upon to reverse his statements and apologize.

Repeatedly, showing up at somebody's home with your equipment and TV cameras could also constitute harassment.

Alcazar's Revenge

Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:36 am Post subject: Stop hearing Shango and form your own opinion...
________________________________________
I see that "I hear Shango" wrote some really ignorant comments about if Arubans care or not.

Listen, boy, there is not much more that we Arubans can do. We have done everything in our power and within our scope. Even went so far as to bend jurisdiction regulations to allow FBI in. The fact that the girl can't be found is not our fault. I hope your comments are not indicative of your intelligence, because what you put on display here should embarrass you.

Tim Miller has been called in and his head straightened. You cannot threaten people. Doesn't matter who you are and what noble intentions you might have.

TJ Ward is breaking the law and he will be dealt with appropriately too. There are such thongs as immigration laws in Aruba.

As for the turtles, they are a protected species and there are signs everywhere that state the beach as being an off-limits zone. Like in the US we have laws and regulations too concerning endangered species.

So "I hear Shango", be more respectful of other country's laws, other nations customs and realize that there is a whole other world outside of the US.

By the way, Savannah of the Broom, translated in papiamento is "Sabana Basora". It's an area in Aruba.

Alcazar's Revenge

Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:19 am Post subject: Aruba held hostage
________________________________________
An entire people are being held hostage here. Baseless accusations of conspiracy and what not. Very childish. Aruba has a lot more to lose than to protect the spoiled child of a macamba.

First of all, we are embarrassed that this happened at all. Violent crime is very rare and although a tourist or two might get robbed, there’s hardly any aggression directed towards tourists. Tourists that get in trouble are those that went looking for it as in getting involved with drug pushers.

What happened to Natalee is a mystery, but what I do know is that Aruba has complied with all the reasonable wishes of the Holloway/Twitty families. What Aruba cannot do is produce a Natalee for the world. We don’t know where she is and happened to her.

Three experts in interrogation will work on Joran the next couple of days. The police are looking forward for his 18th birthday. He will then lose his privileges as a minor.

Suddenly Mark Furhman is the voice of reason? A racist and perjurer?

Alcazar's Revenge

Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:44 am Post subject: Jossy and Diario
________________________________________
You should take Jossy Mansur for what he is. The owner and publisher of a newspaper.

That he has his own agenda. Sure. That he is an opinionated man. Damn sure. Did you know Jossy's niece is married to the Minister of Justice. Everybody meets for drinks and BBQ.

A police pick-up truck. I have yet to hear that one. You guys make up a lot of stuff on this board. I see F-16's turn into F-14's. I see water reservoirs turn into lakes. I also see fine police people called out for being corrupt.

I am familiar with Mark Furhman's work and the books he wrote. Still a perjurer and racist. He should be the last one to call anybody names. Additionally, as a former LAPD man, he sure knows corrupt police forces. Maybe he finds Aruba attractive in that regard.
[/i]

Alcazar's Revenge

Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:57 am Post subject: Perjury
________________________________________
Some would say? Let's stick to the facts.

You are allowed to say whatever you want when you are being interrogated. You might even choose to Please be quiet.

You can only commit perjury under oath. Joran and the brothers have not been in a court of law yet.

Alcazar's Revenge

Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:55 am Post subject: Matutino Diario
________________________________________
My opinion is that Mr. Mansur is enjoying his moment in the sun a little bit too much.

However, he has been known to be a very well-informed man in all levels of Aruban society. Everybody, tells him everything. Confidential documents magically appear in the Diario's mailbox everyday.

Alcazar's Revenge

Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:24 pm Post subject: Who? Me?
________________________________________
Karen, are you under the impression that I am unaware?

Alcazar's Revenge

Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:51 pm Post subject: Get the name right?
________________________________________
It is the result of her taking all parts of her to wherever it is that she went to. There's as much evidence from day one as there is today.

I guess Aruba Search & Rescue, The Dutch Marines, 1500 Gov't Employees, Texas Equusearch, F-16's, FBI, Miami Dade Police, TJ Ward and whoever is next in line couldn't find her. They are all incompetent to me, because daisysistah of them have a clue. They have all performed poorly.

Dukkha, my friends, Dukkha...
_________________
"Death to Tapioca!"

Alcazar's Revenge

Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:13 pm Post subject: Good to see you Chang!
________________________________________
The landfill was just another dead-end. Junior, que paso hermano? "Un cheep amariyo?" This guy can't speak his own language. Hopi kens mes.

Everybody in Aruba is scared to wear sneakers these days. So the sneaker got stuck in the mud. Do we need to have a National Sneaker Search day? Do the Marines have experience in sneaker search? Arubans are generally incompetent. They can't even find a sneaker.

The sneaker is being passed around from house to house. Very "The Da Vinci Code"-ian. The Holy Grail Sneaker. Damn...a sneaker-conspiracy in which ALL Arubans are hiding "something". Anything. OK...everything.

Now, if Greta could just be more like Sophie. People in Aruba are Dutch, but they call themselves Arubans. Their official language is Dutch, but they speak to each other in Papiamento. Although, they are all Arubans they don't fit a general description. Sounds a like a secret society.

Maybe, they take young virgins in secret, barbaric rituals. Some of these rituals are known to involve colorful lights, throbbing music and copious amounts of mind-altering icy tropical beverages. Some ingredients are even known by numerical codes like “151”.

The repercussions for this secret society of around 90,000 members, who suspiciously all live together on the same tiny island, will be dire. If this case is not solved the Americans will boycott and destroy their own established businesses on the island. Just under 2 Billion.

With some more thought I can really work this one out.
_________________
"Death to Tapioca!"

Last edited by Alcazar's Revenge on Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:22 pm; edited 2 times in total

Alcazar's Revenge
Joined: 03 Aug 2005


PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:48 am Post subject: El que corta la oreja es un santo con fallas...
Toma las fechas por un solo nombre. Toma mis palabras por lo que son. Mira que no falta mucho.

The one that cuts the ear is santo with faults...

(The one that cuts the ear is a saint with faults... Take the dates by a single name. Take my words for what they are. Look at that which is missing the least.)
_________________
"Death to Tapioca!"
Alcazar's Revenge
Joined: 03 Aug 2005

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:06 pm Post subject: What about Malchus' ear?


Observando...pero manteniendo distancia.

Muchos quieren castigar a la forma. Buscando en donde no deben. No paga saber demaciado. El piloto de Jupiter AM-13 se consumió. Tal como la forma humana del original.

Te hable de los patos de pecho negro. Ve y busca. Antes de los mediados de 31 B.C. - 14 A.D. veras que es verdad.

(Observing... but maintaining distance.
Many want to punish the form. Looking in places they shouldn’t. It does not pay to know too much. The pilot of Jupiter AM-13 was consumed. Just like the human form of the original one.
It speaks to you of the ducks of black chest. It sees and it looks for. Before the ides of 31 B.C. - 14 A.D. you will all see that it is the truth.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

gordo:
Joined: 31 Jul 2005

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:32 pm Post subject: Unmasked the god with the misspelled name is...

My city is destroyed, my house is wrecked, my children have been taken captive.

I have been forced to leave .... a fugitive. Even I escape not from thy hand.

Et tu, Guillermin?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Alcazar's Revenge
Joined: 03 Aug 2005

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:10 pm Post subject: For he is a saint with fault to cut off Malchus' ear...

Que bueno es el detective "mejor amigo" que no sabe ni leer.

El piloto del Jupiter AM-13, el sabe quien es el santo con la nombre equivocada.

Les engaño a todos. Ha ha ha! Duizend bommen en granaten!!!

(How good is the detective “best friend” that does not know nor read. The pilot of the Jupiter AM-13, he knows who is the saint with the mistaken name. He decieved you all. ha ha ha! Thousand bombs and grenades!!!)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gordo Enmisión
Joined: 31 Jul 2005

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:35 pm Post subject: His mind is not for rent to any god or government...

The Simian only relays. Never claimed to know where Eurydice may lay.

The reporting detective suits you well. You latino speaking knickerbockers wearing fool. The Simian hopes you are not an embarrassement to your fellow Ladino people. Son of the Jaguar you are, forget not.

The Simian does know the frontpage history of the becoming of the god with the misspelled name. Look for the "Dutch in Aruba". A lie perpetuated too long.

Always engaging most of you are. Again the form must be consumed.

Goodbye, Nouvelle Fille. Tu est ma meilleur amie.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Alcazar's Revenge
Joined: 03 Aug 2005

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:18 pm Post subject: San Theodoros

Tal vez los "frontpagers" se acuerden de quien hacía postings con el nombre "Dutch In Aruba".

El es quien buscan. Veran que el les ha tomado el pelo por mucho tiempo ya.

Que pena...

(Perhaps "frontpagers" remember who made postings with the name "Dutch In Aruba".
It is the one who they look for. You will all see that he has taken you by the hair for a long time already.
What a pity... )
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Alcazar's Revenge
Joined: 03 Aug 2005

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:35 pm Post subject: Grammar Nazi

Bueno, chiquita dame un chance. Verán...como debe ser.

(Fine, little one give me a chance. They will see... as it must be)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Alcazar's Revenge
Joined: 03 Aug 2005

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:47 pm Post subject: Busquen por donde en los viejos frontpagers...

Les estoy diciendo quien es ese dios que les intriga tanto y se pasan tratando de averiguar quien soy yo.

(Look for by where in old frontpagers... I am telling you who is that God that intrigues you so much to them and they go trying to find out who I am.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Alcazar's Revenge
Joined: 03 Aug 2005

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 5:03 pm Post subject: Choose sides...

It's helpful to do so. It avoids embarrassment.

The Shivas will be pinched again. Reset your clocks as it may happen before the ides of August.

Do not underestimate the Babylonians. That has been your mistake all along. The words exchanged with the Yellowhammer will haunt Cain. The question is if he will be Abel to tell the truth.

Remember that the block and the hammer are not owned by the Babylonians. Et tu, De Wit?

The whisperer is back on the line. Weak,...but still hungry. Never broken. In the Nemean sense.

"Death to Tapioca!"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Alcazar's Revenge
Joined: 03 Aug 2005

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject: "Mejor Amigo" tiene la cabeza dura... ( "bestbuddy" has a hard head...)

The Simian has never claimed to know where Eurydice may lay.

He is just a relayer of information for the benefit of his friends like "Nouvelle Fille" and the "Parentless One".
_________________


dietser is a white-supremacy word for a person who is a member of a minority. It also can refer to a neo-nazi or skinhead, I believe.
Mithra is a contract
pantoufle de vair "translates from French as "Squirrel fur slipper"
(I need that clarified a bit further)." "A pantoufle de vair is a "Cinderella slipper"."
16.04 - "Ok so Joran lost a size-14 soccer shoe."


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: SS on March 22, 2008, 12:20:19 PM
I think we need to find some answers to these specifc clues from Fin.  The rest may then fall into place.

Do names through genealogy histories always stay the same?

The ex-monkey is not a Crows, but is related to Crows.

Steve Crows is not the ex-monkey, but maybe related to one.

Shake the Solagnier + genaruba and an ex-monkey will fall out of the tree.

Rufo cannot find a razor, think he could type?


I did notice in the previous post that Mansur's niece was married to the Minister of Justice - Rudy Croes?  Interesting. Mansur was also involved in the BAT fiasco with Alex Solangier.  I haven't found the name of an ex-monkey in the ancestral data that I found.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 22, 2008, 12:52:40 PM
This means that the daughter of Ezau and Marie Henriques married the son of Constantino and Inovia Alders.  Their names aren’t given because they are still alive.
Could Inovia Croes or Maria Cores be Fin’s grandmother?

·  ID: I49616985
·  Name: Living HENRIQUEZ
·  Sex: F

Father: Ezau Albrecht HENRIQUEZ b: 13 Jan 1904 in Aruba
Mother: Maria Regina CROES b: 30 Dec 1906 in Aruba

Marriage 1 Living ALDERS
Children
1.    Living ALDERS

·  ID: I49616984
·  Name: Living ALDERS
·  Sex: M

Father: Constantino Remaclo ALDERS b: 13 Sep 1881 in Kralendijk, Bonaire
Mother: Inovia Beltranda CROES b: 10 Oct 1904 in Aruba

Marriage 1 Living HENRIQUEZ
Children
1.    Living ALDERS

 ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused::


So are we saying that Arubagirl is actually Fin?  Or that Arubagirl is really Simian regardless of any known info and she gladly implicated her own relatives in this case?      I know the info on AG as Simian...if it is true then AG as Simian was saying that Joran and K2 are not guilty and that the 5th suspect...which in this case is Steve Croes...would be responsible for Natalee's death.  Steve Croes did not have to provide the alibi...he was the alibi.  I must be reading this all wrong, because I am trying to understand it.  OR are we saying that Arubagirl obtained all her info from her cousin that was in ALE and said cousin claims that Steve Croes is the 5th suspect?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 22, 2008, 01:04:47 PM
Lala's in one of the Alcazar revenge posts there is this:

(How good is the detective “best friend” that does not know nor read. The pilot of the Jupiter AM-13, he knows who is the saint with the mistaken name. He decieved you all. ha ha ha! Thousand bombs and grenades!!!)


Jupiter AM-13 was launched in december 58 on board was Gordo a South American squirrel monkey ::MonkeyWink::


In what you posted there are 2 posts by a certain Gordo.

Are there any more posts by "gordo" you know of?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 22, 2008, 02:07:53 PM
Finbars first post was:

    
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #2459 on: February 21, 2008, 03:23:13 PM »
   
Why not just ask arubagirl who Simian is. I certain that she could fill in the blanks. Wink


Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 22, 2008, 02:09:30 PM
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He (PVDS) had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05.
He (PVDS) had been brought in for questioning that day

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 22, 2008, 02:54:07 PM
Lala's in one of the Alcazar revenge posts there is this:

(How good is the detective “best friend” that does not know nor read. The pilot of the Jupiter AM-13, he knows who is the saint with the mistaken name. He decieved you all. ha ha ha! Thousand bombs and grenades!!!)


Jupiter AM-13 was launched in december 58 on board was Gordo a South American squirrel monkey ::MonkeyWink::


In what you posted there are 2 posts by a certain Gordo.

Are there any more posts by "gordo" you know of?

Yes.  Neither Alcazar or Gordo was posted at SM.  They were RWV posts. 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 22, 2008, 02:54:45 PM
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He (PVDS) had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05.
He (PVDS) had been brought in for questioning that day


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 22, 2008, 02:57:00 PM
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He (PVDS) had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05.
He (PVDS) had been brought in for questioning that day


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation



Well poop!  Sorry, I hit post before I was finished. LOL  The UNDERLINED post is NOT....I repeat...NOT part of the original Simian posts.  It was part of a conversation at another website.  It has nothing to do with that Simian post...I have been saying this for days now. It should never be quoted in that comment by Simian.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 22, 2008, 03:08:59 PM
Finbars first post was:

    
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #2459 on: February 21, 2008, 03:23:13 PM »
   
Why not just ask arubagirl who Simian is. I certain that she could fill in the blanks. Wink


Fin


Then if Finbar is AG why not just say so??  I am tired of the cloak and dagger stuff.  If AG is Simian then just say so and tell us who is the 5th suspect.  Then tell me about the party and the people that provided the alibi...we have lots of other things that we could be doing if this was out of the way.  I have no problem with the truth....just seems that if I were Simian and after all this time having seen the crap said that are wrong I would have enough courage to step out of my little corner of the world and help this family out and prove that what I say is true...otherwise it's a coward's way to communicate.  Same with Shango.  I have never said they were right or knew diddly squat about what happened...but if they did and one of them is AG...then she is complicit in the cover up as far as I am concerned and should have to account for what she did. AG has denied she is Simian or knows who Simian is.  Another lie? I don't know.  Shango is no better...regardless of who it is they allowed the truth to be hidden to the point that it has ruined an entire island.  They should be held accountable. MOO


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 22, 2008, 03:11:26 PM
Gordon Enmision posts:


Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 2 Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:21 am Post subject: ...and the yellowhammer has flown.
________________________________________
The god with the misspelled name will not fulfill his Mithra. A copycat he was. Not more
can be said.
Soon the dirty waters shall be made of salt and rain again. The clouds keep rolling.

Three Dietsers will try. A swollen tongue will not let anyone talk. His pantoufle de vair
much less so.
_________________
Et tu, Guillermin?

Gordo Enmisión

Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 2 Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 12:07 pm Post subject: Veritas semper en agaria
________________________________________
The incident at the Savannah of the Broom is not for the lost yellowhammer. The Quisqueya
did that for herself.

Do not wag. Can the dogs are soaked in dirty water drag 16.04? Not if there is no weight.

Choose sides now. Broken promises. So Damocles seems to think he can get confortable?
Swift and efficient is the karma.

Greased floors of the palace halls. Many passageways. A shadow of a men that will never
stand in them again.
_________________
Et tu, Guillermin?


Gordo Enmisión

Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 3 Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:02 pm Post subject: Austen's masterwork
________________________________________
The words combines cause all too much grief. Generalizations. Pain.

Just as all the Arawaks are thrown into a burning stake by fingerpointers. Three fingers
point back at the gringos.

Pax Romana. Gratitude and humbleness go a long way to erase imperial howls.
_________________
Et tu, Guillermin?

Gordo Enmisión

Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 4 Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:17 pm Post subject: Shango is 8-5
________________________________________
On a mission. The god with the misspelled name is no more. The new form knows this.

The god with the misspelled name is two-fold being with too many minutes in his hour.
Idle hands. Idle thoughts.

Childish metaphors more akeen to a sempoa-handler than a self-respecting wordsmith.

Goodness, thank you. His mind is elsewhere.
_________________
Et tu, Guillermin?

Gordo Enmisión

Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 5 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:11 am Post subject: Party like it's...
________________________________________
The Tracy has a trench coat that died. Access long denied. A worthless piece of paper
kept in a wallet that is growing fatter.

Funny, how he only speaks in his own language. Maybe the Yellowhammer should look for
new branches to perch on.

Cowboys are swinging with mud that will pretty soon stick to their own faces. Do they
think their shovels are hammers? Soon they will have neither.
_________________
Et tu, Guillermin?

Gordo Enmisión

Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 7 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:09 pm Post subject: That Libanese Family...
________________________________________
They have nothing to do with the Yellowhammer case.

Fingerpointers, there are three fingers pointing back at the gringos.
_________________
Et tu, Guillermin?

Gordo Enmisión

Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 7 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:11 pm Post subject: It's a fish...
________________________________________
The Simian knows what a barbishi is.
_________________
Et tu, Guillermin?

Gordo Enmisión

Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:36 pm Post subject: Get the name right...
________________________________________
Gratitude is the begging bowl's best advertisement. The Simian is not one to gloat.
Time is of essence. Always.

The grinding of teeth by Babylonians makes all so much more difficult.

All the slippery afternoon delight Tracy's work couldn't figure that Eurydice would not
rise.

The human form was consumed for sign language and free tickets in rockets are much more
worthwhile.
_________________
Et tu, Guillermin?

Gordo Enmisión

Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:44 pm Post subject: His mind is not for rent...
________________________________________
The Simian is not the same as the god with misspelled name.

Just as a macamba is not a macumba.

You have desecrated the Merian form and now you are finishing off the Simian.
_________________
Et tu, Guillermin?

Gordo Enmisión

Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:32 pm Post subject: Unmasked the god with
the misspelled name is...
________________________________________
My city is destroyed, my house is wrecked, my children have been taken captive.

I have been forced to leave .... a fugitive. Even I escape not from thy hand.
_________________
Et tu, Guillermin?

Gordo Enmisión

Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:44 pm Post subject: How can a fish be a
friendly foreigner?
________________________________________
Redeemed is the house of the Babylon. For it is grander than the palace itself. The robed
ones have walked the line too many times. Thin as it may well be.

Pink mist for what used to be. Address with respect. Question the whisperer you must not.

A "Dietser in Aruba" has twisted the ears and eyes of many. Never of the Simian.
_________________
Et tu, Guillermin?

Gordo Enmisión

Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:35 pm Post subject: His mind is not for
rent to any god or government...
________________________________________
The Simian only relays. Never claimed to know where Eurydice may lay.

The reporting detective suits you well. You latino speaking knickerbockers wearing fool.
The Simian hopes you are not an embarrassement to your fellow Ladino people. Son of the
Jaguar you are, forget not.

The Simian does know the frontpage history of the becoming of the god with the misspelled
name. Look for the "Dutch in Aruba". A lie perpetuated too long.

Always engaging most of you are. Again the form must be consumed.

Goodbye, Nouvelle Fille. Tu est ma meilleur amie.
_________________
Et tu, Guillermin?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on March 22, 2008, 03:20:09 PM
I'm not sure that we have identified all of the information that Fin was giving us.  These are the surnames that I found in the source which Fin gave.  The names are Croes, van der Westen, van der Biest, van der Woestijne, Poppe, Specht, Solagnier, Zagaria, Castro, Ravine, Tromp, and Lampe.

This is the list that Fin gave us.  We haven't figured out very much of it

Retired ex-polis - Rufo Solognier (uncle and neighbor of Steve Cores)
Blue Blood - ?
Cousins - ?
Crows - Steve Cores (?)
Curacao - ?
Grandmother - ?
Insurance - ?
Blogs - ?
ALE - ?
ex-monkey - no longer posts on SM

Fin wanted us to ask why SGC would lie, and what relations he has to an ex-monkey.
Who is Fin? He didn't join this forum until February.  Was he a former forum member?  How would he know this information about former posters?  I haven't seen Fin post since he gave these cryptic clues. I very quickly identified that Fin knows how genealogy data is gathered.  He knew how LDS gets their information, which might have gone over many monkey heads.  He knew about individuals submitting lineages and the "two on the bike".  Fin has done genealogy research. I think we ned to take a good look a Fin's clues again.

Yes, the Mormons have a great database. Info only good as those who submit lineage, or those two guys on the bikes have time to find. There are others.

Perhaps, to find more fruit, one might need to seek another family tree.

Maybe shake the tree of a retired ex-polis and see what kinda flavour falls out.

Who knows...it may lead to the fifth and a monkey.

Flip tha coin again, sour mash gal.

There is more than one retired polis....

Maybe search: Solagnier + genaruba

ah ... Tio Rufo, SGC's next door neighbor? Rufo... rings a bell. Is he a neighbour?

Tio=TEOFILO SEFERINO CROES?  
Neighbors? 

Solognier Raul (Rufo?)    
Seroe Pita 20 D    

Croes Hendrik S (Hendrik Serefino Croes) (Serefino "Steve" Gregory Croes grandparent?)   
Seroe Pita 22  
I have found other Croes/Solognier with common street addresses but the above are the closest together.
fin thinks SGC the 5th? Why would he lie? Any reasons? Any relations to an ex-monkey?

the monkey is ex/not current? Posts the cage no more.  I don't know the name of the ex-monkey that finbar is referring to, so I will leave this to someone who does.
RUFO SOLOGNIER
Retired ALE Police Chief

Now that rings a louder bell.

No typos in

Search: Solagnier + genaruba.

Do names through genealogy histories always stay the same?  There are both Solognier/Solagnier families listed in Aruba
The ex-monkey is not a Crows, but is related to Crows.

Steve Crows is not the ex-monkey, but maybe related to one.

Shake the Solagnier + genaruba and an ex-monkey will fall out of the tree.

Rufo cannot find a razor, think he could type?

Two words above to be searched with a "+" in between. Does the s-engine still work?

Fin


Am I sour mash girl?  ::MonkeyHaHa::  I keep focusing on the changes in the Solagnier spelling.  The family that now spells it Solognier is Rufo.  The family that still spells it Solagnier is the one that was involved in smuggling with the Harms family and Jossy Mansur.  Rufo can't find a razor and typing is also of interest.


SS, what i have discovered is in blue above.  Not sure if any of it is what Finbar was leading us too, probably much more investigation is needed.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 22, 2008, 03:35:44 PM
Finbars first post was:

    
Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #2459 on: February 21, 2008, 03:23:13 PM »
   
Why not just ask arubagirl who Simian is. I certain that she could fill in the blanks. Wink


Fin


Then if Finbar is AG why not just say so??  I am tired of the cloak and dagger stuff.  If AG is Simian then just say so and tell us who is the 5th suspect.  Then tell me about the party and the people that provided the alibi...we have lots of other things that we could be doing if this was out of the way.  I have no problem with the truth....just seems that if I were Simian and after all this time having seen the crap said that are wrong I would have enough courage to step out of my little corner of the world and help this family out and prove that what I say is true...otherwise it's a coward's way to communicate.  Same with Shango.  I have never said they were right or knew diddly squat about what happened...but if they did and one of them is AG...then she is complicit in the cover up as far as I am concerned and should have to account for what she did. AG has denied she is Simian or knows who Simian is.  Another lie? I don't know.  Shango is no better...regardless of who it is they allowed the truth to be hidden to the point that it has ruined an entire island.  They should be held accountable. MOO

Agree with you there, if Finbar wants to tell us something why doesn't he/she say so?

I dont buy for a second that Simain Shango etc had to use code to not be found out.
A Single post, including the so called inside information they may have had, would have been much mure effective and less "dangerous" than talking in code for days. There is a possibility that they knew nothing. Have they ever brought forward any new information that was not in the news? Or were they just rehashing known facts in a sort of code they made up and just enjoyed the attention?

Thx for the "Gordo on mission" posts these guys do have fun nicks just like "Mary im Ernest" LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 22, 2008, 04:47:10 PM
Simian reported slightly ahead of the news cycle:

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:09 am
The Simian is disapointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom, but like to say the he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources. Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 22, 2008, 04:50:36 PM
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He (PVDS) had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05.
He (PVDS) had been brought in for questioning that day


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation



Well poop!  Sorry, I hit post before I was finished. LOL  The UNDERLINED post is NOT....I repeat...NOT part of the original Simian posts.  It was part of a conversation at another website.  It has nothing to do with that Simian post...I have been saying this for days now. It should never be quoted in that comment by Simian.


not the important part......the important part is: did DirtyHand walk w/ PVDS on the 17th, or was it the 24th


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 22, 2008, 04:51:48 PM
the day that the "judge" had become fallen.......


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 22, 2008, 06:16:29 PM
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He (PVDS) had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05.
He (PVDS) had been brought in for questioning that day


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation



Well poop!  Sorry, I hit post before I was finished. LOL  The UNDERLINED post is NOT....I repeat...NOT part of the original Simian posts.  It was part of a conversation at another website.  It has nothing to do with that Simian post...I have been saying this for days now. It should never be quoted in that comment by Simian.


not the important part......the important part is: did DirtyHand walk w/ PVDS on the 17th, or was it the 24th

Actually it is important...to me.  The date of the 17th is not substantiated as true by any sources I have seen.  His duties were suspended...I never read that anywhere..just in that conversation.  Paulus was arrested on June 22 and released on June 26th. Steve Croes the next day.  So if you are are saying that Dirty Hand is Steve Croes...then I might buy that one.  Heck, you know I don't know anything here...I am as dumb as a sack of rocks when it comes to this stuff.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: SS on March 22, 2008, 06:28:09 PM
Texas Mom,

Fin's responses are in blue:
ah ... Tio Rufo, SGC's next door neighbor? Rufo... rings a bell. Is he a neighbour?
fin thinks SGC the 5th? Why would he lie? Any reasons? Any relations to an ex-monkey?
the monkey is ex/not current? Posts the cage no more.

Rufo Solognier is the neighbor of Steve Croes and he is also his uncle.  He told reporters that he is related to Steve Croes through his wife.  This would mean that his wife is most likely the sister of Hendrik Croes or sister of the wife of Hendrik Croes. Hendrik and his wife are the grandparents of Steve Croes.  If we could identify the maiden name of Rufo Solognier's wife, we would be able to move forward.  Aruban vital records are not online.  We need someone to go to the courthouse.

This might sound a little crazy, but humor me.  The avatar that Finbar was using was a monkey smoking a cigarette.  Alex Solagnier was the one who exposed the Mansur/Harms families with their involvement in the smuggling of cigarettes and drugs during the British American Tobacco Company scandal during the 1990s.
http://www.publicintegrity.org/Report.aspx?aid=355
http://www.public-i.org/Content.aspx?src=search&context=article&id=579
http://duncan.gn.apc.org/bat/Health_Committee_Evidence_1.htm

I am still not certain about the significance of Solognier v. Solagnier.  Are they two different families or are they both descendants of Frenchman Michel Solagnier?

Can Klaas give us a compiled list of everything that Finbar posted since February?  We might be missing stuff.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 22, 2008, 06:36:00 PM
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He (PVDS) had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05.
He (PVDS) had been brought in for questioning that day


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation



Well poop!  Sorry, I hit post before I was finished. LOL  The UNDERLINED post is NOT....I repeat...NOT part of the original Simian posts.  It was part of a conversation at another website.  It has nothing to do with that Simian post...I have been saying this for days now. It should never be quoted in that comment by Simian.


not the important part......the important part is: did DirtyHand walk w/ PVDS on the 17th, or was it the 24th

Actually it is important...to me.  The date of the 17th is not substantiated as true by any sources I have seen.  His duties were suspended...I never read that anywhere..just in that conversation.  Paulus was arrested on June 22 and released on June 26th. Steve Croes the next day.  So if you are are saying that Dirty Hand is Steve Croes...then I might buy that one.  Heck, you know I don't know anything here...I am as dumb as a sack of rocks when it comes to this stuff.

And he walked with the fallen elder

The problem here is that we can never logically put a date on this comment.
dirtyhand walked with the fallen elder. This can mean dirtyhand walked with PVDS. This could mean Jan VDS walked with PVDS. But we can never determine if they walked together on a specific date much less what the purpose of the walk was. Or if it was a walk in the litteral sense in the first place.

I take it to mean that dirty hand knew PVDS. But then since we can't say for sure who dirtyhand is what does it help us?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 22, 2008, 06:56:33 PM
I still think that simians and shangos definition of babylonians is not the same
simian    Babylonians=police
Shango  Babylonians= dutch/dutch governement

I know that simian made a post in which he said that babalu was clueless about who babylonians are and that he would make an exception and answer: the gamblers knew the girl. People then assumed that babylonians were the gamblers.

But he does not say the babylonians are the gamblers

these are the post of simian and babalu on that date pertaining to that comment:




Simian on June 26th, 2005 9:27 pm


The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ’cause the bird would fly away.


The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Babalu on June 26th, 2005 9:33 pm


Shango


Clarify this. Joran is supposed to be a Babylonian. Are there more Babylonians other than him????
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Babalu on June 26th, 2005 9:37 pm


Why would an elder Babylonian let a younger Babylonian be sacrified. Once again, do the Sumerians own the kaseenos?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Babalu on June 26th, 2005 9:47 pm


Shango


I read something about ganbanging a 14 yr. old tourist and filming it. But this was not attributed to the duo of Babylonians, but to another group of kids, including Van Rijn, Aredszetc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Babalu on June 26th, 2005 9:52 pm


Simian


Demoniacal???


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Simian on June 26th, 2005 9:53 pm


The Simain thinks that Babalu is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.


The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew he girl.



What i think he says: Babalu assumes all the time that Joran and PVDS are the babylonians. They're not simian thinks this is funny because in the first post he says The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl. it's obvious that they are not the same as the gamblers. All he does in my opinion is saying look at my post that include the words: The gamblers knew the girl



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: SS on March 22, 2008, 07:01:49 PM
Finbar claims that he is the one who originally created this timeline of events related to the night Natalee disappeared.  He posted this on SM on 2/21.  Who is Finbar?

 Re: Natalee Case Discussion #734 2/21 -
« Reply #712 on: February 23, 2008, 01:12:13 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Magnolia on February 23, 2008, 12:04:24 PM
Quote from: bleachedblack on February 23, 2008, 11:32:54 AM
Quote from: Blonde on February 23, 2008, 09:46:02 AM
I have NO link saved of where I got this I'm not sure if it's right
Monday, May 30
12:15 am?.......Deepak, Satish & Joran arrive Carlos’nCharlies’
........................MB kids surprised to see Joran because he’d said @ casino Sunday nites slow & no one goes out
12:45 am.........Joran in another scuffle with MBHS kids outside Carlos’nCharlies’
........................Natalee & other MBHS kids believe Joran van der Sloot is a Dutch tourist visiting Aruba
........................Some locals later tell MBHS kids Joran van der Sloot is a local drug dealer
1:00 am...........Carlos’nCharlie’s closes, everyone starts leaving
1:30 am...........Joran walks next to Natalee outside Carlos’nCharlie’s, but two are not touching
........................MB kids say Natalee does not appear to be drunk & is walking OK
........................Natalee tells MB friends she’s going back to Holiday Inn with another group of MB kids
........................Natalee points to MB kids she’s going with, Kalpoe brothers & Deepak’s car nowhere in sight
........................MB kids see Natalee & Joran in Deepak’s car but think it’s a taxi (taxis not marked in Aruba)
........................Natalee & Joran leave Carlos’nCharlies’ in Deepak Kalpoe’s car with his brother Satish
........................MB kids go back to hotel pool and beach. Marriott beach visible. Moon at 59% illumination
1:40 am...........Kalpoe’s lawyer says Deepak briefly stops at a bar/restaurant a block from Carlos’nCharlies’
1:50 am...........Kalpoe’s lawyer says Deepak then drives away from Oranjestad to California Lighthouse
1:50 am...........Kalpoe’s lawyer says the brothers drop off Natalee & Joran (@ Marriott?)
2:00 am...........Mickey John says Deepak told him in jail that he & Satish went home and got on the computer
2:00 am...........Person sees Kalpoe brothers in Deepak’s car driving toward Montanja where van der Sloots live
2-3:00 am........Kalpoe’s neighbor sees brothers at home washing Deepak’s car
2:30 am...........Geraldo says Joran van der Sloot calls Deepak Kalpoe and asks for a ride
2:40 am...........Satish Kalpoe’s lawyer David **** says cellphone records show Joran called Deepak
........................Lawyer says Deepak told him Joran said he was walking home & left Natalee on beach
........................Mickey says Deepak told him Joran said he would go online in hour and tell him what happened
3:00 am...........?Someone makes withdrawl from Paulus’ account @ Aruba Bank ATM across from Mcdonalds?
3:00 am?.........Someone who sounds like Natalee leaves garbled message on cellphone voicemail of MB guy
....................... MB guy’s cell (his, not rented) is only MB cell which can make/receive calls locally in Aruba
........................Message on his voicemail is along the lines of “I don't know these people”
3:00 am...........?Natalee also leaves message on Twittys answering machine in MB calling from a cellphone?
........................Beth Twitty in Arkansas @ time. Where were Jug Twitty & Natalee’s 16 y.o. brother Matthew?
........................Cellphone may have belonged to or was rented by Joran or Paulus van der Sloot
........................Beth Twitty tells Fox H&C she believes Natalee was @ van der Sloots when she made the call
3:00 am...........Deepak tells Mickey Johns that Joran text messaged they “need to talk” as per People Mag
3:15 am..........Geraldo says Deepak gets text message saying “Nevermind. Got another ride.”
3:20 am..........Satish’s lawyer says Deepak said he got text message from Joran saying he was home
3:45 am..........?Someone makes 2nd withdrawl from Paulus’ account @ Aruba Bank ATM?
4:00 am..........Geraldo says Paulus picks up Joran (from where??) and drives him home
5:00 am..........50-100 MB kids @ beach, Holiday Inn pool & lobby start to go back to their rooms for sleep
6:30 am..........?Records show call from one of 3 amigo’s cellphones in Santa Lucia area of Aruba ?
.......................?Call is to another of the 3 amigos?
6:40 am..........Julia @ “Aruba Today” says Joran on school bus & “aced” his exam, but no exams scheduled
.......................Headmaster @ International School of Aruba says Joran was late this day & Paulus drove him
???? am..........Joran in school bragging about sex with Natalee -- also saying she drowned??
8:00 am..........Chaperones go to all the MB kids’ hotel rooms, make sure all awake.
.......................Chaperones take headcount and notice Natalee is missing.



Blonde I have seen this timeline also, but  don't recall where from. It interestingly contains the mention of the stop at the other bar by the perps, and the ATM stops, but
sadly not confirmed info on it though I recall it too .......often I think this early info true...out before it got cleaned up, sadly no way to prove it.

1:40 am...........Kalpoe’s lawyer says Deepak briefly stops at a bar/restaurant a block from Carlos’nCharlies’

3:00 am...........?Someone makes withdrawl from Paulus’ account @ Aruba Bank ATM across from Mcdonalds?

3:45 am..........?Someone makes 2nd withdrawl from Paulus’ account @ Aruba Bank ATM? [/b]


I think the timeline above may be the one Writenow did at the end of June o5,
I always thought that was important because information was new in the mind.


Nope.

That computer scrawl be mine.

I think I composed it from several sources. One was World Journier. One was from interviews. Me thinks Shizaru sounds familiar, but I do not remember those text messages that were actually sent.

It may seem they came from several sites because I mined all the net info I could find at the time. That page came from one place.

I was hoping it would be posted because that info was on an old computer that I no longer use.

It needs reworking and a badly needed format make over. lol.

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 22, 2008, 07:02:36 PM
Jan VDS' retirement had been planned well in advance, according to a post a few pages back

consider:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too. (arawak nation)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak (babylonian)
Many pioneers have settled with the tribe

why don’t the arawaks ambush the lions?
The cowboys don’t know.
DirtyHand knows, but is afraid of the Arawak Nation

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:11 am
All the Arawaks know the Maze which plays the poison songs

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Follow the notes
to the poison house
where the children of the babylonians (pimps)
and the arawak nation
meet, under cover of delusion.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
Why do they leave the Maze open?
Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths.
Tell the Cowboys!
The Arawaks are hiding the path to the Maze for the Babylonians.

he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation

Dirty Hand is the link! (between arawak nation & pimps)
A new key must be found to open unknown doors. (hidden path to maze)

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
He holds the real key (to the poison hou$e)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 22, 2008, 07:06:03 PM
I still think that simians and shangos definition of babylonians is not the same
simian    Babylonians=police
Shango  Babylonians= dutch/dutch governement

I know that simian made a post in which he said that babalu was clueless about who babylonians are and that he would make an exception and answer: the gamblers knew the girl. People then assumed that babylonians were the gamblers.

But he does not say the babylonians are the gamblers

these are the post of simian and babalu on that date pertaining to that comment:




Simian on June 26th, 2005 9:27 pm


The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ’cause the bird would fly away.


The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Babalu on June 26th, 2005 9:33 pm


Shango


Clarify this. Joran is supposed to be a Babylonian. Are there more Babylonians other than him????
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Babalu on June 26th, 2005 9:37 pm


Why would an elder Babylonian let a younger Babylonian be sacrified. Once again, do the Sumerians own the kaseenos?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Babalu on June 26th, 2005 9:47 pm


Shango


I read something about ganbanging a 14 yr. old tourist and filming it. But this was not attributed to the duo of Babylonians, but to another group of kids, including Van Rijn, Aredszetc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Babalu on June 26th, 2005 9:52 pm


Simian


Demoniacal???


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Simian on June 26th, 2005 9:53 pm


The Simain thinks that Babalu is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.


The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew he girl.



What i think he says: Babalu assumes all the time that Joran and PVDS are the babylonians. They're not simian thinks this is funny because in the first post he says The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl. it's obvious that they are not the same as the gamblers. All he does in my opinion is saying look at my post that include the words: The gamblers knew the girl



great post-you're absolutely correct....he doesn't call babylonians gamblers.....he says the gamblers knew the girl, she spent her nights at their tables......all they "knew" was written down

Shango says "why did the girl owe money"

who would have made this determination?

is this the maze?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRK-CQVQevQ


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 22, 2008, 07:07:39 PM
poison notes-line of credit?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: SS on March 22, 2008, 07:09:33 PM
In this post, Finbar gives us the information about the firm owned by Paulass.  He says that Carlo is significant.  Once again he is pointing to Jossy Mansur.

 Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #2541 on: February 24, 2008, 12:13:00 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: sirensong on February 23, 2008, 07:27:30 PM
You all may already have  this, but  came  across it  when searching one night.   I believe it is a register  of businesses that belong to the Aruba Chamber of  Commerce?   It  lists  the owner and the business address, and I have been checking it against  the other list of businesses I  posted.  If nothing else, it is  interesting to see the names on it.  My hope is that it will  be helpful to  one of  you smart Monkeys!

http://www.arubachamber.com/LC%20KLEIN%2005-06-2005.htm

http://www.visitaruba.com/business/directory/busdir.mv?search



Siren,

Yes , it is a useful tool.

Look up how many businesses Jossy owns.

Here is one for PVDS

Appearing in the Trade Register of the Chamber of Commerce and Industry in ARUBA since 18 JANUARY 2007 under serial number 35741.0 is the company with the trade name:

 
CARLO & VAN DER SLOOT
 
Business address   CONSTANTIJN HUYGENSTRAAT 5, ORANJESTAD OOST
Legal form   PARTNERSHIP
Name of the company   CARLO & VAN DER SLOOT
Date of commencement   1 JANUARY 2007
     
 
OWNERS/PARTNERS

ADVOCATENKANTOOR MR A.A.D.A. CARLO N.V.
Established at   CONSTANTIJN HUYGENSTRAAT 5, ORANJESTAD, ARUBA
Position   MANAGING PARTNER
Since   18 JANUARY 2007
Authority   FULL
 
VAN DER SLOOT, PAUL ANTONIUS PETRUS JOHANNA;
Residing in   MONTANJA 19, NOORD, ARUBA
Born in   THE NETHERLANDS, BOXTEL on 15 FEBRUARY 1952
Nationality   DUTCH
Position   MANAGING PARTNER
Effective   18 JANUARY 2007
Authority   FULL
 
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY

HET UITOEFENEN VAN EEN ADVOCATENKANTOOR.
 
Only valid if accordingly signed by the Chamber of Commerce & Industry Aruba - J.E. Irausquin Blvd.10, Oranjestad, Aruba.

=====

Carlo, that name rings a bell.

Hi Mum.

Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on March 22, 2008, 07:18:09 PM
SS,

Finbar was on other forums, way back when, IIRC.

Also, the family history page is the work of the ex-monkey, arubagirl.

If any of that helps.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 22, 2008, 07:19:47 PM
In this post, Finbar gives us the information about the firm owned by Paulass.  He says that Carlo is significant.  Once again he is pointing to Jossy Mansur.

 Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #2541 on: February 24, 2008, 12:13:00 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: sirensong on February 23, 2008, 07:27:30 PM
You all may already have  this, but  came  across it  when searching one night.   I believe it is a register  of businesses that belong to the Aruba Chamber of  Commerce?   It  lists  the owner and the business address, and I have been checking it against  the other list of businesses I  posted.  If nothing else, it is  interesting to see the names on it.  My hope is that it will  be helpful to  one of  you smart Monkeys!

http://www.arubachamber.com/LC%20KLEIN%2005-06-2005.htm

http://www.visitaruba.com/business/directory/busdir.mv?search



Siren,

Yes , it is a useful tool.

Look up how many businesses Jossy owns.

Here is one for PVDS

Appearing in the Trade Register of the Chamber of Commerce and Industry in ARUBA since 18 JANUARY 2007 under serial number 35741.0 is the company with the trade name:

 
CARLO & VAN DER SLOOT
 
Business address   CONSTANTIJN HUYGENSTRAAT 5, ORANJESTAD OOST
Legal form   PARTNERSHIP
Name of the company   CARLO & VAN DER SLOOT
Date of commencement   1 JANUARY 2007
     
 
OWNERS/PARTNERS

ADVOCATENKANTOOR MR A.A.D.A. CARLO N.V.
Established at   CONSTANTIJN HUYGENSTRAAT 5, ORANJESTAD, ARUBA
Position   MANAGING PARTNER
Since   18 JANUARY 2007
Authority   FULL
 
VAN DER SLOOT, PAUL ANTONIUS PETRUS JOHANNA;
Residing in   MONTANJA 19, NOORD, ARUBA
Born in   THE NETHERLANDS, BOXTEL on 15 FEBRUARY 1952
Nationality   DUTCH
Position   MANAGING PARTNER
Effective   18 JANUARY 2007
Authority   FULL
 
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY

HET UITOEFENEN VAN EEN ADVOCATENKANTOOR.
 
Only valid if accordingly signed by the Chamber of Commerce & Industry Aruba - J.E. Irausquin Blvd.10, Oranjestad, Aruba.

=====

Carlo, that name rings a bell.

Hi Mum.

Fin

SS, Carlo was the atorney for JVDS when he was first arrested. In the first show that Peter de Vries did on Natalee in 2006 He went into Carlos office with a hidden camera and asked Carlo about a meeting Carlo had with the prosecuter Karen Janssen. Carlo wrote a letter to the prosecutor saying that he wanted to clear his conscience about his client.
Carlo never denied the meeting took place but did not say what he had told Janssen. It's a strange coincidence that after Paulus became the fallen judge he partnered with Carlo as a lawyer in his law firm


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: SS on March 22, 2008, 07:20:16 PM
In this posting, Finbar seems to be telling us that the father of Steve Croes is involved with the judiciary on Curacao.  Once again he is pointing to the family of Steve Croes.

 Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #3083 on: March 04, 2008, 02:49:17 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Finbar on March 04, 2008, 11:45:12 AM
Quote from: Lala'sMom on March 04, 2008, 10:10:02 AM
Now, why are we talking about Steve's father?  I have lost the gist of this conversation. Sorry.


I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.


Fin

Do you have this picture, Fin?
I do not recall ever seeing one with the two of them together.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 22, 2008, 07:24:21 PM
poison notes-line of credit?

The lies in the PV's? The false testimony's?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 22, 2008, 07:28:36 PM
poison notes-line of credit?

The lies in the PV's? The false testimony's?

she spent her nights at their tables

the gamblers also took note


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 22, 2008, 07:30:31 PM
I still think that simians and shangos definition of babylonians is not the same
simian    Babylonians=police
Shango  Babylonians= dutch/dutch governement

I know that simian made a post in which he said that babalu was clueless about who babylonians are and that he would make an exception and answer: the gamblers knew the girl. People then assumed that babylonians were the gamblers.

But he does not say the babylonians are the gamblers

these are the post of simian and babalu on that date pertaining to that comment:




Simian on June 26th, 2005 9:27 pm


The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ’cause the bird would fly away.


The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Babalu on June 26th, 2005 9:33 pm


Shango


Clarify this. Joran is supposed to be a Babylonian. Are there more Babylonians other than him????
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Babalu on June 26th, 2005 9:37 pm


Why would an elder Babylonian let a younger Babylonian be sacrified. Once again, do the Sumerians own the kaseenos?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Babalu on June 26th, 2005 9:47 pm


Shango


I read something about ganbanging a 14 yr. old tourist and filming it. But this was not attributed to the duo of Babylonians, but to another group of kids, including Van Rijn, Aredszetc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Babalu on June 26th, 2005 9:52 pm


Simian


Demoniacal???


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Simian on June 26th, 2005 9:53 pm


The Simain thinks that Babalu is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.


The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew he girl.



What i think he says: Babalu assumes all the time that Joran and PVDS are the babylonians. They're not simian thinks this is funny because in the first post he says The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl. it's obvious that they are not the same as the gamblers. All he does in my opinion is saying look at my post that include the words: The gamblers knew the girl



great post-you're absolutely correct....he doesn't call babylonians gamblers.....he says the gamblers knew the girl, she spent her nights at their tables......all they "knew" was written down

Shango says "why did the girl owe money"

who would have made this determination?

is this the maze?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRK-CQVQevQ


Columbo i dont have that much "faith" in shango He is too loose in his definitions for my taste. The maze IMO can mean
- judicial red tape and rules
- criminal underground stuff(like your youtube link)
- it could even be a hard to unravel kind of secret society etc

just MHO some of you guys have been at this so much longer than I have so i'm open to suggestions


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 22, 2008, 07:30:31 PM
Simian on June 26th, 2005 9:27 pm


The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ’cause the bird would fly away.


The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.

the gamblers took note......all they knew was written down


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on March 22, 2008, 07:31:09 PM
Texas Mom,

Fin's responses are in blue:
ah ... Tio Rufo, SGC's next door neighbor? Rufo... rings a bell. Is he a neighbour?
fin thinks SGC the 5th? Why would he lie? Any reasons? Any relations to an ex-monkey?
the monkey is ex/not current? Posts the cage no more.

Rufo Solognier is the neighbor of Steve Croes and he is also his uncle.  He told reporters that he is related to Steve Croes through his wife.  This would mean that his wife is most likely the sister of Hendrik Croes or sister of the wife of Hendrik Croes. Hendrik and his wife are the grandparents of Steve Croes.  If we could identify the maiden name of Rufo Solognier's wife, we would be able to move forward.  Aruban vital records are not online.  We need someone to go to the courthouse.

This might sound a little crazy, but humor me.  The avatar that Finbar was using was a monkey smoking a cigarette.  Alex Solagnier was the one who exposed the Mansur/Harms families with their involvement in the smuggling of cigarettes and drugs during the British American Tobacco Company scandal during the 1990s.
http://www.publicintegrity.org/Report.aspx?aid=355
http://www.public-i.org/Content.aspx?src=search&context=article&id=579
http://duncan.gn.apc.org/bat/Health_Committee_Evidence_1.htm

I am still not certain about the significance of Solognier v. Solagnier.  Are they two different families or are they both descendants of Frenchman Michel Solagnier?

Can Klaas give us a compiled list of everything that Finbar posted since February?  We might be missing stuff.
SS, this can be done but it would be EXTREMELY long and they probably would not appreciate us posting it all here again.  Plus, all of the posts do not apply to what we're researching.  Follow the link that I am posting below and you can view all of Finbar's post from the beginning.  The first page will be the most recent posts and they are in order back to his beginning post.

 http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=profile;u=3806;sa=showPosts (http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=profile;u=3806;sa=showPosts)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 22, 2008, 07:32:36 PM
JE:

maze difficult for supposed guilty, even if innocent

the fallen judge & the singing card.......




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 22, 2008, 07:33:27 PM
He has a history of making himself something he's not (a judge maybe?)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 22, 2008, 07:40:40 PM
http://www.ipsn.org/lolli1.html

Acting through his underboss, Rocco Ernest Infelise, head of one of the largest "street crews" in Chicago, Ferriola directed Jahoda to lure 51-year-old Robert Heyden Plummer to the outfit's elegantly appointed "Murder Mansion" in northern Libertyville Township. The secluded Lake County mansion in the woods once belonged to a local millionaire, Bruce Rouse, and his wife, Darlene, until they were brutally murdered in 1980. Their case was never solved. The mob bought up acreage and spent $50,000 converting the former residence into a high stakes  casino (ca$ino) that employed eighteen full-time people to accommodate the gambling high rollers (ROLLERS) and fun- loving clientele who parked their cars in the rear. Reportedly, the outfit raked in $400,000 for just fifteen nights of casino gambling (of gold bricks). According to Jahoda, political protection was supplied by former Lake County Sheriff Tom Brown, whose elected term spanned 1978 - 1982.

The Murder Mansion was an appropriate setting for what Rocky Infelise had in mind. He told the skittish Jahoda a few short hours before a well-planned murder to lead the unsuspecting Bobby Plummer up the flight of stairs to the second-floor casino and "just keep going." Plummer was a "revenue collector" (all they knew was written down) for Ferriola, and a gambler of long standing in the northern suburbs. He also operated the Front Runner Messenger Service, a horse-betting parlor in Highwood belonging to Michael Posner, a protégé of Ferriola and a kingpin in Lake County mob vice operations. Plummer, of north suburban Lake Forest, was attacked on the stairway and savagely beaten to death. His body was found in the trunk of his wife's Lincoln Continental in a Mundelein Holiday Inn parking lot. Jahoda still cannot forget the horrible death cries of Plummer as he was dispatched from this world.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 22, 2008, 07:41:43 PM
He has a history of making himself something he's not (a judge maybe?)

This quote i am almost certain refers to Joran

some posts from that day

#  Rachael on June 24th, 2005 2:48 pm

WHO AGREES WITH ME?

To all you out there bashing about grammer, find a different discussion board. This is about Natalee and the case of her disapearance. Grow up!
# Pam on June 24th, 2005 2:48 pm

You often hear of sociopaths that kill people having a history of killing animals first.
# Rachael on June 24th, 2005 2:48 pm

WHO AGREES WITH ME?

To all you out there bashing about grammer, find a different discussion board. This is about Natalee and the case of her disapearance. Grow up!
# pktbk on June 24th, 2005 2:49 pm

crs-lmao!!!!!!
come on inside…i want you to watch me sweat…don’t bring the cameras in.
# Dutch on Aruba on June 24th, 2005 2:49 pm

Yeah SImian, what was found in The Hague?
# crs on June 24th, 2005 2:49 pm

******* ,yes, there was a lady on last week that there was no way Joran did it because he was so good looking and she was totally serious.
# Rachael on June 24th, 2005 2:50 pm

Joran is not an ulgy boy
# Simian on June 24th, 2005 2:50 pm

This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 22, 2008, 07:42:27 PM
This is what Fin is saying....Arubagirl is Simian or at the least, wrote the posts for Simian which was her cousin in ALE that was feeding the info to her.   There the cat is out of the bag...has been for a while...doesn't mean it's true...just info that is out there among tons and tons of info that could be right or wrong.  Is AG's cousin Steve Croes's uncle Rufo?  I thought Arubagirl's cousin was female that worked at ALE.

Now, where does that leave us?  AG's related to Steve Croes...not sure I didn't already know this but...let's continue.  Simian or AG now is willing to implicate her own relative and release Joran and K2 of any guilt.  Interesting thought. Now show me where there was a party that Steve Croes hosted at his house that night.  He was in and out of CnC's that night too and was supposed to be on the Tattoo as a night watchman...so was there a party at his house?  Who provided his alibi?  They would be the people at that party....and is he the one that Joran called?  Would that make him Daury? 

If I am incorrect Fin...please accept my apologies...but Steve Croes is there and the ex-monkey is Arubagirl.  If this is incorrect please feel free to set the record straight. TIA.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: SS on March 22, 2008, 07:42:58 PM
Finbar posted this on the Persistence site.

Barry said...
Today's the day! - Mel Fisher

All My Best,
Finbar
February 8, 2008 5:57 AM


This was posted over at Greta.

Comment by BobTWA
February 9th, 2008 at 2:28 am
Comment by Finbar
February 9th, 2008 at 2:12 am
America, please please please come back to Aruba!

We go broke because a few dozen tourists died and we covered it up.

From now on we promise, no more cover up.

Of course, we still kill you.

Sincerely,

His Royal Highnass The Fetid Mongrel Arawak King(AKA Nelson “Lion King” Oduber)

Finbar,

Your post reminds me of “Achmed the dead terrorist”:. Everyone watch this, it is halarious and it’s safe, I scanned it. Somebody posted this the other night.
Bob





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on March 22, 2008, 07:43:41 PM
SS,

Finbar was on other forums, way back when, IIRC.

Also, the family history page is the work of the ex-monkey, arubagirl.

If any of that helps.


I'm not SS, but thank you very much VMS!  Now it makes more sense.   ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 22, 2008, 07:44:41 PM
Texas Mom,

Fin's responses are in blue:
ah ... Tio Rufo, SGC's next door neighbor? Rufo... rings a bell. Is he a neighbour?
fin thinks SGC the 5th? Why would he lie? Any reasons? Any relations to an ex-monkey?
the monkey is ex/not current? Posts the cage no more.

Rufo Solognier is the neighbor of Steve Croes and he is also his uncle.  He told reporters that he is related to Steve Croes through his wife.  This would mean that his wife is most likely the sister of Hendrik Croes or sister of the wife of Hendrik Croes. Hendrik and his wife are the grandparents of Steve Croes.  If we could identify the maiden name of Rufo Solognier's wife, we would be able to move forward.  Aruban vital records are not online.  We need someone to go to the courthouse.

This might sound a little crazy, but humor me.  The avatar that Finbar was using was a monkey smoking a cigarette.  Alex Solagnier was the one who exposed the Mansur/Harms families with their involvement in the smuggling of cigarettes and drugs during the British American Tobacco Company scandal during the 1990s.
http://www.publicintegrity.org/Report.aspx?aid=355
http://www.public-i.org/Content.aspx?src=search&context=article&id=579
http://duncan.gn.apc.org/bat/Health_Committee_Evidence_1.htm

I am still not certain about the significance of Solognier v. Solagnier.  Are they two different families or are they both descendants of Frenchman Michel Solagnier?

Can Klaas give us a compiled list of everything that Finbar posted since February?  We might be missing stuff.
SS, this can be done but it would be EXTREMELY long and they probably would not appreciate us posting it all here again.  Plus, all of the posts do not apply to what we're researching.  Follow the link that I am posting below and you can view all of Finbar's post from the beginning.  The first page will be the most recent posts and they are in order back to his beginning post.

 http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=profile;u=3806;sa=showPosts (http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=profile;u=3806;sa=showPosts)

not that difficult just search members and click finbar


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 22, 2008, 07:47:23 PM
he has a history of making himself something he's not

Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.

but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake
even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.





Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on March 22, 2008, 07:48:26 PM
SS
Finbar claims that he is the one who originally created this timeline of events related to the night Natalee disappeared.  He posted this on SM on 2/21.  Who is Finbar?



Finbar is NOT Arubagirl

A few of us posted together with Finbar way back when this all started.
Finbar made that timeline that was how I got it, that is why, I did not have a link.
Finbar doesn't let things go he will keep looking not stop.
Finbar thinks Arubagirl is Simian and this was his list of clues
"This is the list that Fin gave us.  We haven't figured out very much of it"

Retired ex-polis - Rufo Solognier (uncle and neighbor of Steve Cores)
Blue Blood - ?
Cousins -  She is a cousin of  police
Crows - Steve Cores (?)
Curacao - ?Grandmother -
Insurance - ? What AG does for workBlogs - ?
ALE - Has cousin in  
ex-monkey - no longer posts on SM  ArubaGirl

Sometimes it's hard to understand him because he lived upside down in
Antarctica Underground Bunka ,and penquin's pick at his brain.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on March 22, 2008, 07:50:38 PM
SS,

Finbar was on other forums, way back when, IIRC.

Also, the family history page is the work of the ex-monkey, arubagirl.

If any of that helps.


I'm not SS, but thank you very much VMS!  Now it makes more sense.   ::MonkeyDance::

You are welcome. I was trying not to cross the line but felt like that was important for you to know.  :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 22, 2008, 07:53:32 PM
JE:

maze difficult for supposed guilty, even if innocent

the fallen judge & the singing card.......




In this case i would think the maze could mean the dutch legal system. A suspect even if innocent can be held up to 116 days. That would qualify as difficult for the innocent. BTW there were some post with the number 112 i took this to mean the dutch alarm number(like 911 in the states) but i checked that and in aruba the alarm number is 911 also.
Does anyone know if Joran was actually detained for the whole 116 days? and if so did anything significant occur on day 112 of his detention?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on March 22, 2008, 07:58:55 PM
SS
Finbar claims that he is the one who originally created this timeline of events related to the night Natalee disappeared.  He posted this on SM on 2/21.  Who is Finbar?



Finbar is NOT Arubagirl

A few of us posted together with Finbar way back when this all started.
Finbar made that timeline that was how I got it, that is why, I did not have a link.
Finbar doesn't let things go he will keep looking not stop.
Finbar thinks Arubagirl is Simian and this was his list of clues
"This is the list that Fin gave us.  We haven't figured out very much of it"

Retired ex-polis - Rufo Solognier (uncle and neighbor of Steve Cores)
Blue Blood - ?
Cousins -  She is a cousin of  police
Crows - Steve Cores (?)
Curacao - ?Grandmother -
Insurance - ? What AG does for workBlogs - ?
ALE - Has cousin in  
ex-monkey - no longer posts on SM  ArubaGirl

Sometimes it's hard to understand him because he lived upside down in
Antarctica Underground Bunka ,and penquin's pick at his brain.


Blonde,

Could you please tell him to come back and clarify? Geez, we are going need a thread to decode him. Kind of silly at this point, IMO.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 22, 2008, 07:58:56 PM
SS
Finbar claims that he is the one who originally created this timeline of events related to the night Natalee disappeared.  He posted this on SM on 2/21.  Who is Finbar?



Finbar is NOT Arubagirl

A few of us posted together with Finbar way back when this all started.
Finbar made that timeline that was how I got it, that is why, I did not have a link.
Finbar doesn't let things go he will keep looking not stop.
Finbar thinks Arubagirl is Simian and this was his list of clues
"This is the list that Fin gave us.  We haven't figured out very much of it"

Retired ex-polis - Rufo Solognier (uncle and neighbor of Steve Cores)
Blue Blood - ?
Cousins -  She is a cousin of  police
Crows - Steve Cores (?)
Curacao - ?Grandmother -
Insurance - ? What AG does for workBlogs - ?
ALE - Has cousin in  
ex-monkey - no longer posts on SM  ArubaGirl

Sometimes it's hard to understand him because he lived upside down in
Antarctica Underground Bunka ,and penquin's pick at his brain.




Name: Simian | Posted Jun 28, 2:18 AM
F@ck the poetry. The Simian is a frenchman. Blue blood if you should know.

I know french and trust me simian is not french his grammar is way off for him or her to be
But i think that is what fin meant


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 22, 2008, 08:08:37 PM
@ Blonde


Sometimes it's hard to understand him because he lived upside down in
Antarctica Underground Bunka ,and penquin's pick at his brain.


What's with this comment??? Joke or truth?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 22, 2008, 08:20:24 PM

Kermit posted  in NAH  a list of Judges
« Reply #240 on: March 03, 2008, 05:41:11 PM »   
 
The justices on the Aruban bench:

mw. mr. E. Angela august 1st 2000
mw. mr. P. de Bruin august 1st 2000
mr. J.S. Kuiperdal
mr. P.A.H. Lemaire august 1st 2002
mr. C. Slothouber august 1st 2001
## mr. F.J.F. Gerard march 1st 2005
## mr. H.E. de Boer august 1st 2005
## mr. J.A. van Voorthuizen august 1st 2005



The justices on the Curacao bench

mw. mr. M.K. Asscheman-Versluis (since august 1st 1999)
mr. J. de Boer august 1st 1998
@ mr. R.A. Th. M. Dekkers after 2004 because at that time he was judge in The Hague
mr. W. Foppen (since august 1st 1999)
mr. L. van Gijn august 1st 2000
@ mr. L. Groefsema after 2004 because mr. L. Groefsema was a judge in Assen in 2004
@ mw. mr. L.C. Hoefdraad after 2004 because mw. mr. L.C. Hoefdraad at that time was a judge in the Hague
@ mr. S.M. Lieshout after 2004 because mr. S.M. Lieshout was a judge in Utrecht
mr. B.M. Mezas

@ mr. R.F.B. van Zutphen after 2004 because mr. R.F.B. van Zutphen was a judge in Amsterdam
mr. M.W. Zandbergen since may 1st 2000
@ mr. J.Th. Wit after 2004 because in 2004 he was DA in Dordrecht
mr. P. Wagemakers august 1st 2000
@ mr. R.W.J. van Veen after 2004 because in 2004 he was still a judge in Breda
mw. mr. M.M.M. Tillema september 1st 2000
@ mr. J.R. Sijmonsma after 2004
mw. mr. E.A. Saleh since august 1st 1999
mr. G.E.M. Polkamp november 1st 2000
@ mw. mr. M.H.H.A. Moes 2004 or later because in 2004 she was a judge in Almelo
mr. M.L.A. Angela since march 1st 2000
mr. A.N.G.N.E. Mijnssen since 1996, from november 2000 onwards part-time judge
mr. F.P. Wiel re-appointed for 3 more years on august 1st 1999
@ mr. H.A.C. Smid (since march 1st 2005)
## mr. J.M.P. Drijkoningen (since august 1st 2005)
## mw. mr. A.M.P. Geelhoed (since august 1st 2005)
## mr. K.J. Haarhuis (since august 1st 2005)
## mw. mr. L. de Kerpel-van de Poel (since august 1st 2005)
## mw. mr. A.S. Gratama (since august 1st 2005)
## mr. H.L. Wattel (since september 1st 2005)
Mr. P. W. van Schendel re-appointed for 3 more years on august 1st 2005

## mr. E.M. van der Bunt february 1st 2005
## mr. dr. J.P. de Haan february 1st 2005
@ mr. J.H. Bosch august 1st 2004
@ mr. E.P. van Unen august 1st 2004
@ mr. drs. G.C.C. Lewin august 1st 2004
@ mr W.J. Noordhuizen august 1st 2004
@ mr J.Th. Drop september 1st 2004

From the 45 justices working for the Court of Aruba and the Antilles:

11 started working there after Paul van der Sloot became a suspect
15 started working there much later than Paul van der Sloot

Only 19 might be friends of Paul van der Sloot and of them 14 were Curacao justices.








Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on March 22, 2008, 08:21:26 PM
@ Blonde


Sometimes it's hard to understand him because he lived upside down in
Antarctica Underground Bunka ,and penquin's pick at his brain.


What's with this comment??? Joke or truth?

A little of both he might not be getting pecked on by the penquin's, but he always said he lived upside down.

VMS I just sent a  email.


(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Fun%20stuff/296826404.jpg)


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: MumInOhio on March 22, 2008, 08:23:31 PM
The timeline is posted here.

http://www.rjames.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-67.html




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on March 22, 2008, 08:27:04 PM
@ Blonde


Sometimes it's hard to understand him because he lived upside down in
Antarctica Underground Bunka ,and penquin's pick at his brain.


What's with this comment??? Joke or truth?

A little of both he might not be getting pecked on by the penquin's, but he always said he lived upside down.

VMS I just sent a  email.


(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Fun%20stuff/296826404.jpg)
Thanks, Blonde. Maybe right-side-up would help.  :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: SS on March 22, 2008, 08:29:20 PM
I have pulled some tidbits of converstaions with Finbar.

This one was on 3/14 and once again he is pointing a finger at a Cores.

There was a meeting on june 28th between Croes, Donner(dutch justice minister) and Pechtold(dutch minister of kingdom relations) in curacao. During this meeting croes asked the dutch ministers for assistance in rectifying the aruban image that was painted in the US media. The bad image was harming arubas tourist industry. (wampum)

jackb,

Do you have a link for this source?

Interesting. A Croes that was at the meeting. Still reaching to tie in SGC into the mix. Croes is as common as a Yoruba priest down there, but one has to be related. With small island inter relations - most likely, more than one.

So, one suspect names SGC and he was arrested. I read somewhere else that SGC mentions he was arrested because he over heard something stated by one of the suspects.

I think the island's close familial relationships are the nut that will not likely be cracked.

Fin


3/13/08
There is more that one dirty hand.

CAPS mentioned this. The different spellings of DH/dh seems to indicate this also.

His Lordship is not Oduber. He is the Prime Minister. He is there to preserve Aruba.

His Excellency Governor Refunjol is there to preserve Holland. He is the Head of State. No one higher unless we want to drag the Queen into it.

If we go Rasta - Babylon is the oppression of the Dutch laws, legal system, police, etc.. It is a foreign government forced upon the Arawak peoples from ages ago.

His Lordship Refunjol is there to preserve Babylon.

CAPS, do you own cats?

Fin

3/12/08
Something else odd. All these posters stating that a body thrown in the ocean would either wash back upon the shores or S.A..

Max never washed up.

Fin

3/11/08
Is Finbar aka AG aka Simian???
ag & simian were the two I remember posting about insurance scams.

Fin

3/09/08
17   Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #741 3/7 -  on: March 09, 2008, 07:05:07 PM 
Venezuela Nabs Suspected Colombian Cocaine Kingpin

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN09398680


Maybe PVDS was a mob/cartel lawyer and got caught skimming money.

No casino will allow anyone to gamble beyond the means to pay the debt. Unless an equal amount is in a bank account.

South FLA is the drug capitol of the U.S.. Maybe that is the reason for the trip. Bidness. Drug bidness.

Was this the guy from Aruba that was in FLA and then fled? H. Gonzales?

Fin  

3/09/08
Quote from: Lala'sMom on March 09, 2008, 08:41:42 AM
Quote from: Finbar on March 09, 2008, 04:42:14 AM

How does ag have the "power of the ping"?


Only Mods and Admin can see other posters IP address.  I don't think I ever saw my own IP on the FP. 

Yes, mistake on me part. Riddle was only posted on the FP.

Me thinks Mom answered Fin's rhetorical question.

Fin

3/9/08
CAPS,

Yes. This has been my contention for several years now. There are others that will verify that I came up with this idea several years ago. I even sent this info to Dave at that same time I figured this out.

The map link posted earlier in the thread is the same one from Buki Di Telefoon Aruba 2005 showing the Wi-Fi HotSpots.

2K would have to be aware of Wi-Fi. What - own an Internet Cafe and not have that option for customers? They prolly even sold the pre-paid cards for Wi-Fi at their Cafe.

Wi-Fi is often called "the hippie network." One could string a series of Wi-Fi HotSpots, covering a local area, and peeps could receive internet access for free.

It is a broadcast signal through the air waves. So, it could be hacked by someone with that skill. If one has their own personal Wi-Fi router, one can make it accessible only with a password. Got iPod Touch?

The other aspect is that is that Wi-Fi can be accessed via cell phone, pda's, computer, laptop, etc..

Me thinks the range is limited.

This is the aspect that most likely hindered the investigation. The suspects used Wi-Fi to make it appear that they were at a location, where they were not really located there.

Example: Use cell phone to call from the (insert any location here) and access home computer. Logon and send your friend a text message  email. When computer records and emails are investigated - it will make it appear that the person is at home, when they are not. Maybe this is what ALE meant by computer timeclock tampering.

I believe that some ALE on Aruba honestly tries to investigate, but the conflicting information(alibi/lies of Wi-Fi) proved to support the suspects. Then the coverup began.

Wi-Fi - It's the next best thing to being there....

Fin

3/9/08
I have used paintball markers and I do not believe it is possible to kill a dog with one - even point blank. Maybe torture one with it though. Most serial killers torture and kill animals as "practice" for their later deeds.

I have in me notes that clevfan spoke to the grandmother of SGC on Curacao.

SGC's friend is GVC.

GVC played soccer with JVDS.

I cannot decipher the numerous connections with words. I drew a picture. Take a piece of paper and place "Polis" at the center. Then add all the names in the case and arrows pointing to connections.

It is startling.

Round and round it goes.

Fin

3/9/08
So.

How does ag know Shango?

She is on Aruba and Shango is supposedly in FLA.

Shango would have to be from or lived on Aruba at one point in time.

How does ag have the "power of the ping"?

I would think that it would be extremely, extremely difficult for a poster to have the power to trace someone through an internet BB. A super hacker - maybe.

How can this be?

If one notices at the bottom right of each post, it states "Logged".
Click it and a window pops up -
"Your IP address is shown only to you and moderators. remember that this information is not identifying, and that most IPs change periodically.

You cannot see other member's IP addresses, and they cannot see yours."

So.

Did someone ever supply ag with the IP addy or location of Shango?

Shango knew when the Dopple was there because they had a common friend. Either a phone call, email or IM was sent when the mother came home. The mother was the Dopple. I do not believe that anyone was posting as a Dopple unless it was the mother. I believe that it was meant that the mother had simply arrived home.

So, how so, how the power of the ping?

I once knew a penguin that could ping.

Fin

3/07/08
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:37 pm

DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon

So, he is not Dutch & not Aruban. What nationality is he?

Literally one would think it means someone that is not from NL or Aruba.

Yet, child of Babylon infers - not a young person of Dutch decent. Could mean an older person that is Dutch.

Not Arawak meaning - not descended from the original islanders. Could be borne there, but I think locals mean one has to have been there for several generations to be considered Aruban(Arawak).

Could also be an elder person of Dutch and Aruban parents that are not considered Arawak.

Could be someone that was borne there and not of Dutch or Aruban heritage.

Could be someone that settled there from another country than NL or Aruba.

If we assume that Shango was trying to help and if what he stated is true, then we must find someone that fits one of these criteria of birth and origin.

I think these are things that only the locals may know.

Fin

3/08/08
So, why do the shoes appear to be orange?

Then I remembered my time spent on a clay tennis court. Leaves the shoes with clay dust.

I used Google Earth but could not find a clay court at the RC. But around the green ones there is a rectangular ring of - clay.

Odd. I have never seen a court surrounded by clay before.

That would explain why the tennis shoes look like boots. The clay colour.

Fin

03/05/08
Peaches,

Kinda, sorta, not really. That is Finbar for I have to go to work to feed the credit cards before Visa sends a hit man looking for me.

But a poo poo platter sounds kinda interesting.

Fin

3/05/08
Finbar is referring to a photograph of Steve Croes.

Is the second pic cropped? I would love to see more of the left part if it is.

Notice they both have that same deformed looking ear curl going inwards toward the ear canal - proper.

That is an inherited trait.

Maybe papa Crow has it too.

Follow the ear lobes....

Fin

P.S. Hey Faith

3/04/08
Yes. Misdirection away from the landfill.

How many of Aruba's investigators were at the dump helping Dave dig?

Didn't they make him get permits or something?

Covered up the holes that they had dug.

Maybe the witness did not see them burying a body, but digging it back up to be moved. I think CAPS posted that. Insightful.

The ocean makes sense, being on finite island land, but if willing conspirators kept moving and reburying the body - makes it difficult to find.

Dompig gave many conflicting opinions on the case. Related to Kalpoe?

Fin

3/04/04
Reference to the father of Steve Croes
I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.

3/04/08
I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.

03/04/08
I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.

03/03/08
Finbar's response to a list of judges in Curcao and Aruba
I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.


More later


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 22, 2008, 08:30:05 PM
Simian reported slightly ahead of the news cycle:

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:09 am
The Simian is disapointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom, but like to say the he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources. Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.


Simian was supposed to be in aruba his greatest feat was to report the arrest of PVDS before it was on the news.
Now if he or she was close to the police station that dont surprise me. The news people have to report, edit, then broadcast so yes they will be later. Shango nor Simian as far as i know never posted the "scoop" or information the networks did not have

correct me if i am wrong


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 22, 2008, 08:35:13 PM
Simian reported slightly ahead of the news cycle:

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:09 am
The Simian is disapointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom, but like to say the he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources. Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.


Simian was supposed to be in aruba his greatest feat was to report the arrest of PVDS before it was on the news.
Now if he or she was close to the police station that dont surprise me. The news people have to report, edit, then broadcast so yes they will be later. Shango nor Simian as far as i know never posted the "scoop" or information the networks did not have

correct me if i am wrong

sim posted re the JvdS/K2 polis van convo
long before the transcript of the recording was released

the dates matched perfectly




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 22, 2008, 08:37:43 PM
@ Blonde


Sometimes it's hard to understand him because he lived upside down in
Antarctica Underground Bunka ,and penquin's pick at his brain.


What's with this comment??? Joke or truth?

A little of both he might not be getting pecked on by the penquin's, but he always said he lived upside down.

VMS I just sent a  email.


(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Fun%20stuff/296826404.jpg)

LOL blonde not the penguin part but him/her being upside down as in on the other side of the equator?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 22, 2008, 08:45:28 PM
Simian reported slightly ahead of the news cycle:

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:09 am
The Simian is disapointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom, but like to say the he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources. Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.


Simian was supposed to be in aruba his greatest feat was to report the arrest of PVDS before it was on the news.
Now if he or she was close to the police station that dont surprise me. The news people have to report, edit, then broadcast so yes they will be later. Shango nor Simian as far as i know never posted the "scoop" or information the networks did not have

correct me if i am wrong

sim posted re the JvdS/K2 polis van convo
long before the transcript of the recording was released

the dates matched perfectly




When did he post that? i don't mind being wrong LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 22, 2008, 09:04:43 PM
Simian reported slightly ahead of the news cycle:

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:09 am
The Simian is disapointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom, but like to say the he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources. Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.


Simian was supposed to be in aruba his greatest feat was to report the arrest of PVDS before it was on the news.
Now if he or she was close to the police station that dont surprise me. The news people have to report, edit, then broadcast so yes they will be later. Shango nor Simian as far as i know never posted the "scoop" or information the networks did not have

correct me if i am wrong

sim posted re the JvdS/K2 polis van convo
long before the transcript of the recording was released

the dates matched perfectly

When did he post that? i don't mind being wrong LOL
we all take turns being wrong, LOL

forgot to add that transcript was released nearly a year later

simian says: June 24, 2005 at 5:55 PM
The confrontation is going down. “You made me lie.” “You conspired against me.” “Coward.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=95.0
This is a transcript from a translation done by an internet poster called Arubagirl. It has been fomatted for easier reading. This conversation was recorded without the knowlege of the participants as they all three sat in the back seat of a police car on June 24th. [2005]

Editorial: Natalee’s case and the Aruban people
DIARIO Aruba
4/21/2006
Yesterday, we published the transcript of a conversation that police recorded in a police car that was bringing the three suspects (Joran, Deepak and Satish) from KIA to the Court Building, in Dutch and in Papiamento. The document is very revealing of three suspects’ character, their way of speaking, their way of formulating sentences and their violence.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 22, 2008, 09:12:20 PM
Simian reported slightly ahead of the news cycle:

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:09 am
The Simian is disapointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom, but like to say the he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources. Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.


Simian was supposed to be in aruba his greatest feat was to report the arrest of PVDS before it was on the news.
Now if he or she was close to the police station that dont surprise me. The news people have to report, edit, then broadcast so yes they will be later. Shango nor Simian as far as i know never posted the "scoop" or information the networks did not have

correct me if i am wrong

sim posted re the JvdS/K2 polis van convo
long before the transcript of the recording was released

the dates matched perfectly

When did he post that? i don't mind being wrong LOL
we all take turns being wrong, LOL

forgot to add that transcript was released nearly a year later

simian says: June 24, 2005 at 5:55 PM
The confrontation is going down. “You made me lie.” “You conspired against me.” “Coward.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=95.0
This is a transcript from a translation done by an internet poster called Arubagirl. It has been fomatted for easier reading. This conversation was recorded without the knowlege of the participants as they all three sat in the back seat of a police car on June 24th. [2005]

Editorial: Natalee’s case and the Aruban people
DIARIO Aruba
4/21/2006
Yesterday, we published the transcript of a conversation that police recorded in a police car that was bringing the three suspects (Joran, Deepak and Satish) from KIA to the Court Building, in Dutch and in Papiamento. The document is very revealing of three suspects’ character, their way of speaking, their way of formulating sentences and their violence.



i know about that one. The words "you made me lie" "coward" "you conspired against me" are not in that transcript


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 22, 2008, 09:12:47 PM
Just some posts from RWV concerning GVC...Not saying they are reliable just letting putting it out there for thought. Grain of salt.


So, the story is GVC was at the casino with Natalee before she went to C&C's? Well, that seems kind of irrelevant unless he was at C&C or back at the hotel seen with Natalee?

While if true that he was 'with' Natalee that night it certainly means he needs to provide his whereabouts from 1:30 onward, but how could him being at the casino with her earlier in the night exonerate the 3 suspects?

What I understood the new 'line' to be was that 'witnesses' saw him with Natalee at the Holiday Inn after Joran allegedly left her on the beach, but maybe I misinterpreted it.

Posted by: xxx | Tuesday, April 18, 2006 at 01:02 PM
It says the casino in the article, that is why I put it at earlier in the evening. While maybe irrelevant, the fact that he knew her or talked to her may tie in with something else or other evidence. That Post article also says there is a video in a jewelry store of NH arguing with a light haired man the day of her disappearance and that they are trying to determine if he is the guy in that picture. It also says the shirt found has forensic evidence on it. Maybe all put together is why arrested. This is all according to their "source". It also says Joe T. thinks this is a significant arrest (not just the same old, same old).

Posted by: chloe | Tuesday, April 18, 2006 at 01:08 PM






Yep, GVS held 8 more days on suspicion of drug trafficking and criminal wrongdoing leading to the disappearence of Natalee Holloway

Posted by: meso | Tuesday, April 18, 2006 at 03:01 PM


What does that mean as far as criminal wrong doing? Help me out here, could it be selling or giving drugs that resulted in an OD?

Posted by: IMHERE | Tuesday, April 18, 2006 at 03:07 PM





Really is amazing.

The prosecuter has never mentioned this GVC guy since the beginning
Vander Straaten, never mentioned this guy while he let the original 3 boys run free for ten days after hanging it on the black security guys
DomPig, Nada, nothing about this guy, He could say Natalee died by drugs, but never a word about the bleach blong kid.
Deepack, Nope not a word
Satish, or his lawyer, NYET!
Joran, who was on every network in March, - Not a word about the kid.
PVS, or Anita, - sorry NO again.
Marianne Croes - attourneyl - NOPE
All the witness at the Fishermans hut? NOPE, never mentioned the BLOND haired kid.
Fat Kat Editor of ARUBA today? Nope again.
Geraldo, Greta, Dutch Marines, Shieks, Mickey John, anyone anywhere?? NO< NO NO!

All of sudden, this KIDS arrested for possible DRUG connection and disppearance for NH! I would be checking to see if he was termnial or something. ARUBA wants this to go away before the tourism season gets underway, so lets round up someone, charge them and wrap this up nice an tidy....... Fade to commerical.......announcer says "Come to Aruba, we LOVE YOU BACK! (Sometimes you don't make it back)" Native islander then smiles and shrugs shoulders... fade to black......

I can see the FBI now smacking their collective heads....."damn it was the blond haired kid, near the huts with the sunglasses....damn it all..."

Posted by: Skyboxx | Tuesday, April 18, 2006 at 04:02 PM


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 22, 2008, 09:27:33 PM
Would someone please explain to me why AG would say her own relative is involved in Natalee's disappearance? Why would anyone in their right mind go on all the blogs and forums and tell this about their own relative? She never told me that she thought this...she always said she thought Joran was guilty of her disappearance and whatever happened to her beforehand.  I have talked to her several times as have many of the monkeys.  We don't just talk on SM all the time.  Until someone proves to me she is Simian and proves it without any doubt I am reserving judgment.  I know all about the insurance company, the cousin in ALE, and all the other stuff...the trip to KIA and so forth.  I have looked at it endlessly and questioned her and others about it.  I still have nothing to base that on.  When I did learn of the IP and email addy info concerning Simian and Shango I realized that for AG to be Simian she would have to be sitting at a computer in a certain location each time she posted in order for the IP to remain the same.  I don't think she was at this place...but I do think someone in ALE was.  I think Finbar already knows this and I also think he can't prove to me that AG was Simian.  If he can then I will apologize and bow to his knowledge.  I just want answers and less guess work...but I am in the Shango thread and as I have said all theories are welcome.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: SS on March 22, 2008, 09:30:07 PM
More Finbar Information...

03/03/08
Anyone know the name of SGC's father?

Tick tock, the hammer & the block.

03/03/08
First of all, I think if you spent some time reading and thinking about what CAPS had been posting here, you would not post this.

CAPS has provided some interesting deep background on Aruba. Maybe you should try and read some of it before you are so quick to dismiss.

It really worries me that some here see this an arm chair detective novel with no consequences. If what is true about the drug trafficking, and I believe it to be, then CAPS is placing great risk by seeking and speaking about these matters.

I think we should not press CAPS to be injected into this situation too deeply. I do not think it is worth one more human life. I think some of the other deaths there are drug related. Maybe even NH related.

This troubles me deeply.

03/02/08
Me thinks that Nat's case was and is being hindered because of the publicity is this respect:

Aruba is used for laundering drug money
Aruba is used to aid in drug trafficking
Aruba has cartels and maybe some type of mafia
Aruba has government officials that most likely are involved in all of the above.

They would not want ANY TYPE OF NEWS MEDIA shinning a light on what really happens there.

Maybe the cage is one of those little skeletons(pun intended) in their closet.

Maybe the underwater "post office" is a method of dumping cocaine shipments into the ocean, to be recovered by others.

I saw a documentary where drug traffickers dropped bails of drugs that were recovered by speed boats. Maybe this has evolved to where the bails are dumped from a plane or a boat, and sinks. Then divers or fishermen recover them. Maybe the 90 ft one was an error(wrong dump site etc). There appear to be no drugs, and DNA of someone was recovered.

How could Aruba be used for drug trafficking and money laundering if the Aruban government was not involved? They have to know.

DNA was recovered - but who does it belong to? Someone was found.

03/02/08
So all we really know:

1. JVDS is a bisexual
2. JVDS Bogarts spliffs
3. JVDS is setting up for an insanity defense.

03/02/08
This once again goes back to the Solagnier/Harms/Mansur drug and cigarette smuggling case.
The plane is not AF2. At least not the updated one.

When GHWB was President, there was a documentary about AF1 & AF2. They were completely new planes. Extensive show about the planes.

Look at the front end nose section. On top of the more modern AF1 & 2 there is a distinctive bulge on the top.

The plane posted here that is on Aruba does not have this bulge.

It could be Congressmen on a "fact-finding" junket - spending all those tax dollar$. You know, the ones where they take 120 of their "aides" on a trip.

Could be any of the alphabet groups that are there.

It is interesting about the"post office". An underwater one at that.....

Does the name - Harms ring any bells? It should.  

02/29/08
CAPS,

Driver - a bastard of Dauree?

Smoke is More.

White pickup at Dauree's? Or the other place? With the paved driveway?

03/29/08
Finbar joined SM the same time as FinnGirl.
Thanks. I have been on this journey for a long time too. Just on another beach.

Yes, we were siamese triplets - surgically removed. The third ran away with the circus. No act without the other two.  

02/29/08
He is concerned about fake Simian posts.
Mom,

Care to post all the fake simian posts?

02/29/08
CAPS,

Thanks. That was what I meant to say before. I made a mistake posting "road". I meant driveway.

One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the driveway is now paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA.


CAPS, thanks for what you are doing.

Take your time and go slow.

Don't ask the WRONG questions there(don't put yourself at risk).

2/28/08
Van Der Sloot phone number?
587-2711

Ask for Dauree.

02/28/08
CLW,

Would that rhyme have to be changed now?

One straight path
to the house of Rave
while of gold bricks
the road is now paved
a white truck
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA

02/27/08
I am not stereotyping. I just let the chips fall where they may.

The textual clues lead me to be certain that sim was female.

sim threatened Shango with, "get you eight days in the hole with stale bread for you, you fool"(WTTE). ALE connection. A male would not use these methods of insults or threats.

I first thought sim could be female or a gay person. But, the evidence points to female.

They were conveying info. That is why it is important to who they were. To figure out their motives. Help? Mislead?

I do not have a clear gender for Shango. I am open to ideas. I always thought that the obvious pick was Eduardo Matthew. But I could not find the early clues to the ID for multiple reasons.

I do believe Shango spoke with authority from a point of trying to help by giving some deep background to the island life.

Why Shango chose to do it the way done - could be many reasons. Think about it, their life could be in danger by trying to help if what is really happening down there - drugs, cartel etc..

Me thinks Shango knew some things.

Only a few know everything.

Thanks Shango.

I must go feed the credit cards.

02/26/08
Finbar is talking about Aruban divers on Persistence.
The next day...."

When I heard this, my heart dropped.

If what is in the picture is what Tim was talking about, I do not see how he was 99% sure.

It is on the outside of the trap.

Is this the picture from the first time it was mentioned in the show? Or later?

Plastic. Plastic, not diamonds, lasts forever. But the bonds between plastic are fragile. Think kiddie pool. One or two years in direct sunlight and it gets brittle and crumbles. UV light breaks down the plastic bonds, But, the plastic molecules lasts forever. Not certain about polyester.

Not a complete waste of 30K for an edumakshun.

Sending evidence to FBI is like voting. It does not matter how many votes are cast for which candidate, it matters who counts the votes. It matters which evidence was sent to FBI.

In this case, ALE is on board the boat. They dove the next day. Worrying.

Maybe I am a, "glasses half empty" typa person.

02/25/08
I am rereading World Journier.

"GVC [Suspect Gottfried van Cromvoirt] was bothering Natalee on Friday night at Carlos N Charlies. She was dancing with another classmate and this guy (GVC) came up behind her and started humping and grinding on her back and groping her body. She turned around and yelled at him to leave her alone so he left."

So, GVC figures into this on several different levels:
1. Security cameras
2. Was involved with official search for Natalee
3. Made an unwelcome advance on Natalee and he was rejected
4. Became a suspect in her disappearance

This guy needs further attention.

02/25/08
Do you have a map that shows Moko on it? Maybe Blonde has it.

I think it was a little square map.

The Shango/simian riddle mention the three names: Moko, Montanja & Nood.

The lawyer Carlo with PVDS - is that not one of the lawyers for one of the suspects? Antonio?

So, who posted this info? Is it Dr. Phil or someone else?

Interesting that the early statements from the perps is missing.

Lots of phones and PDAs to make many different permutations of who exactly had which phone. Maybe some phne swapping going on.

02/23/08
Can anyone tell me what is the time that the phone call from Nat on Aruba was made? Were there two calls?

"I don't even know these people."

Why would Nat not know J2K? The drugs? I do not think so.

She was somewhere that she was left. By JVDS. Maybe a rave. JVDS gets his ass kicked. Leaves Nat there.

What about the monkey noises that BHT heard? That was next door to PVDS. BHT thought that it meant that Nat was at the Daury compound.

Maybe she was not. Maybe she was at the house WITH the monkeys. Next door. Party. Old man's party. Sons drug female tourists.

"Your own father." - DK

It is quiet as Aruba in here right now.

What was that sound? Another tourist NOT going to Aruba.

02/23/08
Siren

I think that is it.

JVDS calls Daury at 2:00AM.

Daury stops at ATM to purchase Wi-Fi prepaid card.

Wait a minute...prepaid WiFi card can be paid with a credit card. It states this in the Setar ad.

Would a Setar charge be drawn from his ATM automatically or whatever method is used there? Hmmm.

I would love to see the amount of Florins withdrawn....

So, what happened in the next two hours until 4 in the A of M?

Maybe Daury used his cell phone to logon to his home computer and searched for alcohol drug combinations to try and figure out what to do with Nat.

How far can one travel in two hours on Aruba?

How far in a boat?

Including time to go get boat, launch it, and be back before the sun rises on rats?

Maybe the boat ride was the next night, you know, when JVDS made certain that he "was on a casino video".

Who drove the boat then?

In the last sting video, JVDS mentions to Patrick that, "...you have to give them money. They are poor". (WTTE)

Who of JVDS's friends is poor?

Hey JVDS, FU!

02/23/08
A lot of technical information about the WiFi and mobile phones.

02/23/08
Peaches,

Where do you see that they have FOUR cell phones?

Interesting.

Who owns the fourth phone? PVDS? The phone just recently found?

Maybe...they used PVDS's phone.

Maybe...PVDS...was there.

02/23/08
Klaas,

TY.

I did not get this from these documents. I figured this out several years ago. At another place.


I just read stuff and sometimes the light bulb...lights. Sometimes it does not. Sometimes it worries about penguins.


Yes, cell phone to text message home computer. How can three little piggys be two, two places at once? Breaks the laws of QED it does! (It was really three places at once) Houdini could not get out of that one!

02/22/08
Re: chatting a lot to make it seem believable.

I think the use of WiFi by J2K should be seriously factored into the timeline.

2K HAD to know of WiFi through their Internet Cafe. I think their Cafe is a WiFi hotspot. Buki de Telefoon Aruba lists them.

One can use WiFi via a cell phone to call one's home computer. They could send text messages to the home computer via cell phone. That would make it appear that 2K were at home when they were not.

The gardener saw J2K when they were supposed to be home. How can this be? ALE discounted the gardener's statement due to the chats that occurred "at home".

I think ALE are either ignorant or this collision of facts left them with an open door to let J2K free, by turning a blind eye.

It is also interesting that 2K manipulated their computer's clock.

02/22/08
Klaas,

I never mentioned IP's and email addys first. lol.

I would not stake me life on anything in this twisted puzzle. I would place the probability in the 90% range though. With the dopple being the mother.

If not her, then it would have to be M.C..

I would like to hear your thoughts on who it is. You may email me if you do not wish to post it.

Simian is a female though.

All Me Best,
Fin

02/21/08
In response to MsVada who seemed to recognize Finbar from the past.
Ms,

I prefer your old avatar. Not all birdies fly. lol.

Whaddya think about PVSD's witness statement that he asked the night manager which cameras were working? He was told only the one behind the check in desk. I think this is the alibi/lie that J2K used later on. They got that lie form PVDS. Not sure how that lie fell apart(J2K changed stories, 2 security guards, etc).

02/21/08
JE: I placed "she" in bold type because everyone(here and elsewhere kept repeating "he").

Even Simian referred to itself as "he".

"...have even taken girls there myself." Area where people park on dates. Could mean that the person just drove there with girlfriends(maybe to take photos to put on a blog). Does not mean the person is a male.

"...all this playing with emotions...." A male would never say this.

Simian knew someone in ALE that fed "it" information. AG has a cousin that is ALE.

The list goes on and on....


Bleach: Right back at cha. I am also concerned for the welfare of all penguins. I see some other names that I recognize from somewhere else.

Klaas: So, one person with two IP's and two email addys has to be two people?

Besides, from what I was told by those that explicitly understand Internet Protocol, that using it as a means to trace someone is useless for several reasons that you should already know.

I do agree that this avenue needs no further exploration.

We should focus on the boycott, corruption and coverup.

02/21/08
Klass,

I respect your work here. I have worked elsewhere, for countless hours, for a resolution to this nightmare.

I am not sure what methods you have to discern your line of thought, but I think if one looks at the posts between the two posters, that there are numerous links between them. Too many to ignore.

But, this is all trivia now.

I do not wish to derail the current line of investigation. The coverup and corruption need to be followed to their ends. The pressure must be focused on this and the continuing boycott.

We still have much work to be done to bring Nat home.

02/21/08
BleachedBlack asks Finbar if they have met.

Only online.

Yes, I am the one that has Buki di Telefoon Aruba 2005.

Yes, I live upside down. lol.

02/21/08
Why not just ask arubagirl who Simian is. I certain that she could fill in the blanks.


Fin


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on March 22, 2008, 09:33:56 PM
Thanks Blonde for the insight on Finbar! As for your comment "Finbar doesn't let things go he will keep looking not stop."  I can understand that and respect that; I tend to be that way myself, as I sense many others here are.  His posts probably don't seem as cryptic to those that are more "in the know" than I.  I'll admit I was very frustrated after following the geneology lead and getting nowhere,lol.
I hope he'll continue to help us find the answers to all of this!  As to Steve's father, I "followed the music" all day yesterday and into this morning.  Never found PVDS playing with any of the people I looked at.  And there are many, many, Croes; of which many, many are musicians.  My luck his mother's name is Croes and he didn't take his father's name, lol.  Oh well.




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 22, 2008, 09:35:03 PM
Steve Croes is the 4th person arrested...well if you don't count the SG, which had been released by the time Simian was speaking of them. 

but what about the un-named person
who was detained/released the previous night?

detain/arrest: synonyms which share common definition

you say po ta to, I say po tah to ...
they fry up the same

someone detained musta earned suspect status

Finngirl…but what about the one from the 11th. that didn’t happen? It was reported on and posted about on more than one board!
can you point me in direction of reading material?
checked on SM FP but there are about 3000 posts, give/take
for the time period around june 11th

TIA  :cool:

Also according to the Kalpoe car tape of 6/22, Freddy was why they were arrested. Only way for that to happen was if Freddy spoke to ALE prior to 6/9, which we have no record of.

All of this would of course change who is #5…..

SM FP posters said LvR questioning/searches (including mother's home)
occurred on june 16, date of mystery person's detainment/release

said it was in aruban newspapers/on local tv news reports

SM was all dialed in w/ arubanos at that time ...
can't see that Red/Tom would update FP w/ bunk

so AFAIK their june 17 update is valid info



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 22, 2008, 09:50:45 PM
i know about that one. The words "you made me lie" "coward" "you conspired against me" are not in that transcript

gosh, you're right, it's not word for word ...
what was I thinking?

I took sim's post to mean that on June 24
there was an argument/people were turning on each other

guess I read too much into it cuz the dates match ...
thanks for clearing that up

:wink:



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: SS on March 22, 2008, 09:53:18 PM
SS,

Finbar was on other forums, way back when, IIRC.

Also, the family history page is the work of the ex-monkey, arubagirl.

If any of that helps.







How do you know that the family history page was the work of ex-monkey, aruba girl?  The pages that I found through my research were from an old genealogy source and the newer information came from a researcher named {{edit}}.  Who is {{edit}}?  I did not get her name from the site that Finbar directed us to.   ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on March 22, 2008, 09:53:27 PM
Would someone please explain to me why AG would say her own relative is involved in Natalee's disappearance? Why would anyone in their right mind go on all the blogs and forums and tell this about their own relative? She never told me that she thought this...she always said she thought Joran was guilty of her disappearance and whatever happened to her beforehand.  I have talked to her several times as have many of the monkeys.  We don't just talk on SM all the time.  Until someone proves to me she is Simian and proves it without any doubt I am reserving judgment.  I know all about the insurance company, the cousin in ALE, and all the other stuff...the trip to KIA and so forth.  I have looked at it endlessly and questioned her and others about it.  I still have nothing to base that on.  When I did learn of the IP and email addy info concerning Simian and Shango I realized that for AG to be Simian she would have to be sitting at a computer in a certain location each time she posted in order for the IP to remain the same.  I don't think she was at this place...but I do think someone in ALE was.  I think Finbar already knows this and I also think he can't prove to me that AG was Simian.  If he can then I will apologize and bow to his knowledge.  I just want answers and less guess work...but I am in the Shango thread and as I have said all theories are welcome.

I agree. It just doesn't add up, IMO.

I will gladly change my mind if proof is presented but I will not decipher more code language to get there.   :lol:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on March 22, 2008, 10:01:03 PM
SS,

Finbar was on other forums, way back when, IIRC.

Also, the family history page is the work of the ex-monkey, arubagirl.

If any of that helps.







How do you know that the family history page was the work of ex-monkey, aruba girl?  The pages that I found through my research were from an old genealogy source and the newer information came from a researcher named {{edit}}.  Who is {{edit}}?  I did not get her name from the site that Finbar directed us to.   ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused::
It is on the site that Finbar directed us to, if you look at the bottom of each page where the numbers of the pages are, click on what says "first page". 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: texasmom on March 22, 2008, 10:04:32 PM
SS,

Finbar was on other forums, way back when, IIRC.

Also, the family history page is the work of the ex-monkey, arubagirl.

If any of that helps.







How do you know that the family history page was the work of ex-monkey, aruba girl?  The pages that I found through my research were from an old genealogy source and the newer information came from a researcher named {{edit}}.  Who is {{edit}}?  I did not get her name from the site that Finbar directed us to.   ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused::
I realized what you meant the minute I posted the last response, lol.  Many monkeys knew ag's name from personal contact with her.  I didn't know her name either.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: vms on March 22, 2008, 10:11:05 PM
SS,

Finbar was on other forums, way back when, IIRC.

Also, the family history page is the work of the ex-monkey, arubagirl.

If any of that helps.







How do you know that the family history page was the work of ex-monkey, aruba girl?  The pages that I found through my research were from an old genealogy source and the newer information came from a researcher named {{edit}}.  Who is {{edit}}?  I did not get her name from the site that Finbar directed us to.   ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused::
I realized what you meant the minute I posted the last response, lol.  Many monkeys knew ag's name from personal contact with her.  I didn't know her name either.
Exactly.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 22, 2008, 10:24:20 PM
not necessarily directing this thought toward AG/SGC situation,
but toward sim/shango motives/agenda in general

many/many posters have said:

if my kid were involved in something terrible like this
I would still love them but would expect them
to face consequences of their actions ...
would drag them to nearest cop shop myself if I had to

if posting clues could lead to a relative's arrest/conviction
but it needed to be done/was the right thing to do

some might feel that alias was only way to accomplish this

perhaps courage was lost
when situation/resolution seemed hopeless
or fear became too great

w/ much at stake/much to lose,
not yet convinced that asking someone: are you sim/shango? ...
would result in an honest reply



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 22, 2008, 10:29:21 PM
Steve Croes is the 4th person arrested...well if you don't count the SG, which had been released by the time Simian was speaking of them. 

but what about the un-named person
who was detained/released the previous night?

detain/arrest: synonyms which share common definition

you say po ta to, I say po tah to ...
they fry up the same

someone detained musta earned suspect status

Finngirl…but what about the one from the 11th. that didn’t happen? It was reported on and posted about on more than one board!
can you point me in direction of reading material?
checked on SM FP but there are about 3000 posts, give/take
for the time period around june 11th

TIA  :cool:

Also according to the Kalpoe car tape of 6/22, Freddy was why they were arrested. Only way for that to happen was if Freddy spoke to ALE prior to 6/9, which we have no record of.

All of this would of course change who is #5…..

SM FP posters said LvR questioning/searches (including mother's home)
occurred on june 16, date of mystery person's detainment/release

said it was in aruban newspapers/on local tv news reports

SM was all dialed in w/ arubanos at that time ...
can't see that Red/Tom would update FP w/ bunk

so AFAIK their june 17 update is valid info



Which means that LVR is the 5th suspect...or not. LOL


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: SS on March 22, 2008, 10:30:38 PM
SS,

Finbar was on other forums, way back when, IIRC.

Also, the family history page is the work of the ex-monkey, arubagirl.

If any of that helps.







How do you know that the family history page was the work of ex-monkey, aruba girl?  The pages that I found through my research were from an old genealogy source and the newer information came from a researcher named {{edit}}.  Who is {{edit}}?  I did not get her name from the site that Finbar directed us to.   ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused::
I realized what you meant the minute I posted the last response, lol.  Many monkeys knew ag's name from personal contact with her.  I didn't know her name either.





Has ArubaGirl been informed that Finbar has implicated her?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 22, 2008, 10:31:59 PM
SS,

Finbar was on other forums, way back when, IIRC.

Also, the family history page is the work of the ex-monkey, arubagirl.

If any of that helps.







How do you know that the family history page was the work of ex-monkey, aruba girl?  The pages that I found through my research were from an old genealogy source and the newer information came from a researcher named {{edit}}.  Who is {{edit}}?  I did not get her name from the site that Finbar directed us to.   ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused::


That is Arubagirl's real name and I doubt she is going to be happy with it being posted everywhere. I know, because she told me.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 22, 2008, 10:33:56 PM
SS,

Finbar was on other forums, way back when, IIRC.

Also, the family history page is the work of the ex-monkey, arubagirl.

If any of that helps.







How do you know that the family history page was the work of ex-monkey, aruba girl?  The pages that I found through my research were from an old genealogy source and the newer information came from a researcher named {{edit}}.  Who is {{edit}}?  I did not get her name from the site that Finbar directed us to.   ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused::
I realized what you meant the minute I posted the last response, lol.  Many monkeys knew ag's name from personal contact with her.  I didn't know her name either.





Has ArubaGirl been informed that Finbar has implicated her?

Yes.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 22, 2008, 10:52:43 PM
Which means that LVR is the 5th suspect...or not. LOL

sorry, L'sMom, I didn't explain that very well

I meant that june 16 mystery arrest, if true, was #4
and SGC arrest on june 17 was #5

y'know how they say working puzzles/like that
is supposed to enhance mental ability?

living proof > not = me


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 22, 2008, 11:40:15 PM
Which means that LVR is the 5th suspect...or not. LOL

sorry, L'sMom, I didn't explain that very well

I meant that june 16 mystery arrest, if true, was #4
and SGC arrest on june 17 was #5

y'know how they say working puzzles/like that
is supposed to enhance mental ability?

living proof > not = me

provided the individual was declared a suspect


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 22, 2008, 11:49:35 PM
Which means that LVR is the 5th suspect...or not. LOL

sorry, L'sMom, I didn't explain that very well

I meant that june 16 mystery arrest, if true, was #4
and SGC arrest on june 17 was #5

y'know how they say working puzzles/like that
is supposed to enhance mental ability?

living proof > not = me

So then make Steve Croes fit the requirements of the 5th suspect.  What party?  At his house? When did he meet Natalee in the casino?  How do we know?   Who was his alibi?  Why would he be jealous of Joran?  There is much confusion as to who was 4th or 5th.  If Steve is the 5th person then who was 4th?  Why do some news agencies say it the other way around...I am being rhetorical you don't have to answer.  I already know the answer.  One thing to consider is Freddy, Sander and Koen were all questioned the day before.  Someone make Steve fit the criteria for the 5th suspect.  I am waiting.  :roll:


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on March 22, 2008, 11:57:12 PM
NO posting of real life names.  If you see something like that please let me know.  You can report the post and all the Moderators will see the problem.  Please don't continue to quote it as it just makes more work for us.

I will stake my life on it that Arubagirl IS NOT Simian.
 


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 23, 2008, 12:31:45 AM
I am waiting.  :roll:

thinking that you, along w/ the rest of us,
could be waiting a very long time

 :roll:

something I've been wondering about:
perhaps the party was a lie

alibi was a lie/the party was contained in the lie

friends said "(insert name here) was w/ us all night" ...
which entered the official record
and was passed along/was available to ALE source
who passed it along to others/sim

someone needed alibi to cover actual whereabouts, yes ...
house party is a one-size-fits-all alibi

if the "partygoers" gave similar stories/details ...
and LE was not motivated to prove otherwise, for whatever reasons,
we might be looking for a party that never happened

ditto many other details:
if they arose from false statements
which were accepted/entered into official record/passed along ...

we may be trying to prove negatives




Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: finngirl on March 23, 2008, 01:34:22 AM
Which means that LVR is the 5th suspect...or not. LOL

sorry, L'sMom, I didn't explain that very well

I meant that june 16 mystery arrest, if true, was #4
and SGC arrest on june 17 was #5

y'know how they say working puzzles/like that
is supposed to enhance mental ability?

living proof > not = me

provided the individual was declared a suspect

very true

perhaps someone was arrested for jaywalking
and, since it was a slow news week,
the threadsurfers exaggerated it
into something pertaining to the case



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Altruist on March 23, 2008, 03:40:43 AM
POSSIBILITY??????????????????????????

IF SGC claimed to have had a private party, couldn't the location have been the TATOO?  We know that SGC was fired from his DJ job by the owner Wiggins who gave him such a glowing review.  Didn't Sander G take Daddy's boat out the night of 5/29/05?  Maybe there was a destination or rather a party to attend????????????  & then of course the pimp activity could have been planned to take place at a private party but the plans changed?

Pure speculation on my part but after having the thought, believe it is a prudent thing to share with the researchers that have been working so diligently & share so generously.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: JE on March 23, 2008, 08:26:41 AM
i know about that one. The words "you made me lie" "coward" "you conspired against me" are not in that transcript

gosh, you're right, it's not word for word ...
what was I thinking?

I took sim's post to mean that on June 24
there was an argument/people were turning on each other

guess I read too much into it cuz the dates match ...
thanks for clearing that up

:wink:



I m sorry if i did not make my self clear. I am not saying that because of the words not matching exactly it means that simian is not talking about the police recording. It's just odd he didnt even hint at the IMO bombshell in those recordings like for example: D says to J: They’re going to give you 15 years if they find the girl.
judging by the date i'd have to agree with you. ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 23, 2008, 09:34:37 AM
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:04 pm
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was “there whole time”.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 10:36 am
The boy was picked up at 23:00 on Sunday at Mickey D’s. Sneaked out later. Was on time for school. Don’t mix things up.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:06 am
The important “others” are the ones that supported the alibi.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:03 pm
The alibi needs to be broken.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
If the Alibi is broken by DirtyHand the walls of Babylon will shake (PVDS was not at home)

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:49 pm
The phone call to the father was made at 4:00 in the morning. No wonder he was late for school.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:44 pm
Killing his own dogs. Dumping them is the reservoir. Harrassing his schoolmates.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:09 pm
The party-go-ers need to be pinched (for lying?-perjury....), but no one wants to be the cafone. Including the boy.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Who took the boy to the party? Who took him home? Therein lies the third act. Look up the Simian’s posts from days ago.



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: SS on March 23, 2008, 09:39:08 AM
NO posting of real life names.  If you see something like that please let me know.  You can report the post and all the Moderators will see the problem.  Please don't continue to quote it as it just makes more work for us.

I will stake my life on it that Arubagirl IS NOT Simian.
 





I would like to clear a few things up regarding the use of names.  In genealogy research, the researcher is required to produce his/her name and all documented sources of the research data.  In most cases, the researcher is required to submit an address or email contact where other researchers can make contact for the verification of data.  The name which I provided was found on ancestry.com where I have a subscription.  This name is also available at the public sites of rootsweb.com and worldgenweb.com where this person is a prolific researcher in Aruban genealogy. I was completely unaware that this same person was also known by a few SM bloggers as XX.  I have no doubt that most other posters at SM are unaware of XX's identity.  I don't know why Finbar directed us to the genealogy site of this individual, but he did, and I found the identity of the person to whom he was directing us.  I am quite sure that more SMs than just myself were surprised to find that this individual is obviously a special friend to other SMs.  Had this genealogist not been known by a few as a special former SM, I doubt that her name would now be edited.  When Finbar first informed us about an ex monkey, there was much excitement to identify the person.  I guess that things changed when a certain name surfaced. In searching for information about the horrific disappearance and coverup of Natalee Holloway, I was not aware that there are protected individuals on this site.  There doesn't seem to be any restrictions on providing most other names be they Aruban, Dutch, American, etc. This sounds a little like ALE procedures.  Perhaps, the newer SMs should receive a list of the protected ones.  I am out of here.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 23, 2008, 09:39:49 AM
My bad.....

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:04 pm
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was “there whole time”.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
If the Alibi is broken by DirtyHand the walls of Babylon will shake

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there (the alibi), or did they flee to Babylon?
DirtyHand knows, this is his Power
there will be 46 sacrifices


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 23, 2008, 09:40:27 AM
Happy Easter everyone!


Yes, my point exactly!  We are trying to prove a negative.  Only problem is until we find written proof that any of the possible 5th suspects can fit all main criteria according to Simian we will have multiple options.   

Steve Croes...where is the proof of his alibi?  His party?
Lorenzo...where is the proof of his meeting Natalee in the casino?
Freddy...was he working or in the casino?
GVC...was he jealous of Joran? Did he have a party at his house? Who is the alibi?
Paulus...would he really kill someone because he was jealous of his own son?  Who provided his alibi?  Was he having friends over? 

We can go on and on and never make one person totally fit or can we?  Maybe it is more complicated than I think.  Whatever, there are several people working on it and we will get there sooner or later.  I have many thoughts on the 5th suspect that I have yet to mention.  Sometimes it is better to wait and see what develops. 

Several think that the 5th and dirty hand are one and the same.  Some think Shango and Simian are the same person.  Some think Simian spoke in a method to communicate to only his Aruban friends  (I find that theory flawed, but nevertheless). Others have said that this 5th person is solely responsible for Natalee's death...in that case I say it's Paulus.  I do not think for one minute if such a person exists that Joran would take the blame for this guy unless it was family.  What irks me is that Simian wanted people to know, but lacked the courage to come out and say what he needed to say.  It's been 3 years...if no one on Aruba knows who he is by now then that must be the best kept secret in the universe (besides Shango's identity).   

I think all the answers we are seeking lie in those PV's that are still in the hands of the ALE.  The same ones that Natalee's family will never get their hands on.  I fear none of us will ever know the truth anymore.  Should we solve all the riddles and discover all the secrets what good are they if no one will act?   Sad state of affairs is what it is...is there no one person out there that has the courage to end this nightmare for Aruba?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 23, 2008, 09:47:12 AM
POSSIBILITY??????????????????????????

IF SGC claimed to have had a private party, couldn't the location have been the TATOO?  We know that SGC was fired from his DJ job by the owner Wiggins who gave him such a glowing review.  Didn't Sander G take Daddy's boat out the night of 5/29/05?  Maybe there was a destination or rather a party to attend????????????  & then of course the pimp activity could have been planned to take place at a private party but the plans changed?

Pure speculation on my part but after having the thought, believe it is a prudent thing to share with the researchers that have been working so diligently & share so generously.


Good thoughts!  I would love to find out that Steve had a party that night on the Tattoo and that Joran did call on him to help, but we can't find that out.  It would take someone there at the time to provide the info.  I thought the Tattoo was closed that night...according to it's owner.  I also thought Steve was at CnC's at some time that night. Since he is a DJ, maybe he was working another party or his own party.  I haven't seen evidence to suggest he was having his own party.  Maybe we are thinking  about the word party in the wrong fashion...maybe there was a party it just wasn't the party hosts actual house, but rather another house that on that night would have been referred to as "their place".  OK.  I am rambling again....sorry.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Blonde on March 23, 2008, 10:02:15 AM
In one of the Aruba-Bay video's there is a party on the Tatoo, is this a clue?

Lala'sMom their are programs a poster can buy to hide your IP, you will always show up in the location you pick. So you can't always go by that sorry to say.
I have been an Administer at 6 Natalee's sites and have seen them all.

SS wonderful work you remind me of Finbar


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 23, 2008, 10:05:16 AM
Simian on June 26th, 2005 10:24 pm

The boy is no Ajax. He is too afraid of the consequences. He doesn’t want to be made a cafone.

The third act needs to be played and the cowboys will be heroes.

This is all a “lugubrious game” to them. They were all at the party and all of them are turning their heads. One of them needs to be pinched.
[/b]


This party has to be the party for the elders that allows the deflowering of forbidden fruit...the apartment scenario that Caps has spoken of recently.   If Dirty Hand and the 5th suspect are one and the same...then I can think of numerous possibilities here.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 23, 2008, 10:08:58 AM
In one of the Aruba-Bay video's there is a party on the Tatoo, is this a clue?

Lala'sMom their are programs a poster can buy to hide your IP, you will always show up in the location you pick. So you can't always go by that sorry to say.
I have been an Administer at 6 Natalee's sites and have seen them all.

SS wonderful work you remind me of Finbar



You will need to argue the IP point to Klaas...she is the one that said this.  I am simply passing on her info.


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 23, 2008, 10:20:29 AM
Simian on June 26th, 2005 10:24 pm

The boy is no Ajax. He is too afraid of the consequences. He doesn’t want to be made a cafone.

The third act needs to be played and the cowboys will be heroes.

This is all a “lugubrious game” to them. They were all at the party and all of them are turning their heads. One of them needs to be pinched.
[/b]


This party has to be the party for the elders that allows the deflowering of forbidden fruit...the apartment scenario that Caps has spoken of recently.   If Dirty Hand and the 5th suspect are one and the same...then I can think of numerous possibilities here.


for perjury


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there (the alibi), or did they flee to Babylon? (no NH?)
DirtyHand knows, this is his Power
there will be 46 sacrifices


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: Lala'sMom on March 23, 2008, 10:23:30 AM
BTW, some seem to think I don't want Steve Croes to be the 5th suspect....not true at all!  I don't really care who it turns out to be...I just want to know who it is and see the proof of said suspicion provided and all the pieces fit. I have considered all these people mentioned lately at some time or other, but could not make it fit precisely to what we do know.  I wonder what good it will do should we ever determine who is the 5th and who is dirty hand?  Maybe it's all an exercise in futility anyway. 

Please, everyone have at it with whomever you think is the 5th suspect, but please allow me to be skeptical until all the pieces fit. I just want to know who it is....beyond a reasonable doubt and then we can go from there. 



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 23, 2008, 10:24:02 AM
children of the elders were w/ DirtyHand, a babylonian, in babylon

who heeded his call? who switched places?


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: COLOMBO on March 23, 2008, 10:25:02 AM
who switched places? who is the alibi for?



Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #1
Post by: klaasend on March 23, 2008, 10:46:48 AM
This thread is just getting WAY too long.  I've created a new thread and I'm going to lock this one....OK?

Here is a link to the new thread:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.0


Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
Post by: klaasend on March 23, 2008, 01:45:34 PM
NO posting of real life names.  If you see something like that please let me know.  You can report the post and all the Moderators will see the problem.  Please don't continue to quote it as it just makes more work for us.

I will stake my life on it that Arubagirl IS NOT Simian.
 





I would like to clear a few things up regarding the use of names.  In genealogy research, the researcher is required to produce his/her name and all documented sources of the research data.  In most cases, the researcher is required to submit an address or email contact where other researchers can make contact for the verification of data.  The name which I provided was found on ancestry.com where I have a subscription.  This name is also available at the public sites of rootsweb.com and worldgenweb.com where this person is a prolific researcher in Aruban genealogy. I was completely unaware that this same person was also known by a few SM bloggers as XX.  I have no doubt that most other posters at SM are unaware of XX's identity.  I don't know why Finbar directed us to the genealogy site of this individual, but he did, and I found the identity of the person to whom he was directing us.  I am quite sure that more SMs than just myself were surprised to find that this individual is obviously a special friend to other SMs.  Had this genealogist not been known by a few as a special former SM, I doubt that her name would now be edited.  When Finbar first informed us about an ex monkey, there was much excitement to identify the person.  I guess that things changed when a certain name surfaced. In searching for information about the horrific disappearance and coverup of Natalee Holloway, I was not aware that there are protected individuals on this site.  There doesn't seem to be any restrictions on providing most other names be they Aruban, Dutch, American, etc. This sounds a little like ALE procedures.  Perhaps, the newer SMs should receive a list of the protected ones.  I am out of here.

SS  - you are taking this way too personal.  So what, I edited out a name in your post.  You didn't know who it was and I did.  Would you suggest I leave it?  It would be like if someone posted your real life name in the forum.  I realize you didn't know and it wasn't your fault.  I just had to delete it, nothing personal.