Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Thank you a whole bunch.  Am I allowed to post here to thank you? :lol:

Thank you Tom...!   :D

Thanks so very much for all your hard work.

We appreciate it.

The guy over at scrux thinks it was all some orchestrated conspiracy to knock out web sites related to Natalee!   :shock:

Any idea when it will be back to normal?

Tom Tom He's our man if he can't do it no one can - Yeah Tom.

Easy - the guy at scrux needs a tin foil hat - he can purchase one from SandraK at refugees.

It's just so dang cool to "see" my friends again!

Hi y'all. :D

EASYWRITER:

I, too, found it interesting that both sites went down so close to each other, although I think they are using up band width at BFN posting so many wacky avatars and pictures which feed their imagination.  I did not say that, did I?  But I read the post about the body moving in the bag after a possible death 10-11 days prior to that.  Do I need the tinfoil hat or does someone else need it?

Thanks so much Tom!

Hi all, just got back from a meeting..I see Tom has been busy!  :lol:

Well, Roger did admit that his site was down this morning due to a Denial of Service attack.

Can we post here, or will that screw things up?

Finally got Art Wood and he will be happy to be on DP's radio show.  Not sure when.

I don't know Easy - just returned.  Probably not a good idea to post too much.

Oh, Beth will be in the studio with Kimberly G this Saturday night and Dave and Jossy will be on the telephones.

Easy ...........

Is It True That NEWS Is Forthcoming ..........

Heard That The Witness Was More Than A Witness .............

 8)

Mere sent me an email while I was out regarding the aru-bay video/chicago video #24 where it shows the white bag near the pond.  She said it looked to her like there was a weight in the upper right hand corner near the bag.  Sure enough, I lightened the photo  :shock:   I'll re-post this photo when we get the old threads back:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/whitebagblackitemcopy.jpg)

Mere - YOU ROCK!

Widget:  I don't know, but I am going to ask.  Kelly's announcement about the weights kind of surprised everyone and that has been the focus today.  Seems these weights were found by LE divers at the exact spot the witness took Jossy to before he was arrested.

Ya know, it would make more sense than the original story though.

Can you make out what that is?  Somekind of sand bag?

I have always felt that her body was in the water.


Especially after reading this morning on front page long comment from a poster who pointed out how they kept the FBI from water search/diving.

The white bag appears to be a plastic bag.  Not sure what would be in the bag.  Seems some people at BFN think there's a body in there...I don't.  Maybe clothing though.

HI Klaas ...........

Is This The Same Bag That Someone Blew Up And Had The Impression Of

A Head ............

 :roll:

Yes, and I don't see a head or body but I do see a weight.

Can you make out what the weight is?  Just looks like a black sack to me.

Easy - did you see my post at the top of this page?

I would like to say that the particular photo I sent to Klaas is from BFN....who has been discussing the video on one of their threads.

If The Photos That Were On Here Some Time Back Were'nt Trick Photography Those Photos Sure Looked Like 2 Eyes, A Nose & An Ear That
Were Visible With The Face Area Swollen ..............

Natalee Would Have Had A Head Wound Cause It Was Stated In A Few Different Instances ...........

KLaas You Have Those Photos ???

 :roll:

.
Widget, You haven't been reading at the Bad Place, have you?   :shock:
I think they are already trying to discredit this witness and also make any others afraid to come forward.

I don't think that is even a plastic bag in the usual sense, just a bunch of that really really thin plastic used for temporary drop cloth by painters all wadded up.  Don't see a head, butt, hand, ring, foot, flip-flop or much of anything else in it myself.

How do we know that is a weight?  Are they shaped specially?  I was thinking like a ring for a barbell.  Is this the kind like divers hang on their belts or wetsuits and they are shaped this way?  There is something familiar about that shape but I can't place it right now.  Bet MeMere and Klaas know, however.

A Denial of Service attack is definitely the result of being targeted.  I wonder if that is what happened to use up BFN bandwidth or it was all those same photos over and over of the videos and animations?

Mahalo Tom!  :D

Widget - I do have those photos but I don't want to post alot of photos until we get the threads back.  Will just create more work for us.

Yes, but we have already studied those photos...months ago and the possibility of a body being in the bag.  I don't really see a body but I do see the weight.

WE Saw An Infared Photo Of This Bag & It Showed Something ...........

I Was'nt The Only One To See It Either ..............

Now This Scenario Pops Up Again ...........

Makes Ya Kinda Wonder ..............

 :roll:

I first saw a black sack like Easy, but when I looked at it closer, I see a monkey figure, left arm down and right touching head.   :lol:  :lol:

OK ..........

 8)

I don't think the bag looks big enough for an adult sized body? :?:

Yes, I remember the different shadings etc. but I think it is just too small for one thing.  And the hand is not rubbing the leg and it is not moving as some see.  Wind blowing the plastic maybe.  

But the whole purpose of the photo could be the weight instead of the bag.  That would make more sense to me.

I can make out different things from the shadows like a perfect dog head and snout but I don't really think that is what it is.  I think it is just wrinkles in the plastic.  

But I could be wrong and just not seeing it for sure.

.

I agree Kuoka - unless it was part of a body (sorry about that).

But Is Large Enough For An Adult Head ................

 :cry:

Well, it's good to be back inside 8) ~

I never could see the form of a body either Klass.

In The Photos That Klaas Will Post Later ................

The Only Thing That Looked Like Anything Was The Outline Of A Persons

Head & From What I Could Make Out The Area Of The Eyes Had A Trauma

Because There Looked Like Swelling ..........There Was Also Visible

An Impression Of The Left Ear ...........The Nose Protruded A Little .........

WE Need To See Those Photos Again ..........

 :roll:

I just looked and I don't have that picture but I can see if I can adjust the photo I have to see the same.  Working on it now.

Klaas.....this is a sandbag weight (imagine black instead of red)....

http://tinyurl.com/z8u8h

Klaas, can you post the links to the photos in the meantime, please? Thanks.

Thanks Klaas ...........

Thanks Tom ...........

See Y'All In A Bit ..........

By The Way How Did We All Get Started With This Topic .............Again ...

 :roll:

Sun...video #24....is that the one you want...?


http://tinyurl.com/bmqr8

When I first saw these pictures I thought it was a dog or monkey. Then someone brought to my attention that when the cage and divers knife/tool were stollen from the fishermans hut I looked at the pictures a little closer. What appears to me is the fishers tool holding feet or hands together. But it still looks like a dog or monkey to me. Not a human body. But then again, if a body were cut inhalf or in pieces anything is possible.

(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b341/dkpen/cid_014201c62c009f6f20000201a8c0MOM.jpg)
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b341/dkpen/cid_014301c62c009f6f20000201a8c0MOM.jpg)
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b341/dkpen/4160040-2.jpg)

Widget.....the subject is not the plastic item in the overflow....the subject is the possible weight located in the right upper corner of the overflow....and how it might relate to the weights discussed last night on Greta.....hope that is right....perhaps the video was never about the white plastic but more about the black item which might be a weight..... :)

I can visualize the form of a body, but a few things bother me about the photo.  First, we can't tell anything about the size of anything b/c there is nothing in the photo to give us a size relationship.  Second, it appears that there are several step downs in the cement area that the white bag is laying in.  The foot area should be down in the bottom area of the cement area, but the "body" appears to be lying along one plane on its side.  The foot looks very large in proportion to the rest of the "body."

This would be a re-enactment to give hints about what happened, correct?  Maybe the 'feet' are actually Joran's shoes.

Guess I need to stop looking....but now I can see a large tennis shoe...the first one of dkpen's pictures looks like a tennis shoe on the lower right...on the side with the sole facing the lower right corner.... :shock:

then the picture on the bottom left is turned and the shoe is on the top right...large and the sole facing up..... :shock:

Think I'll have some coffee... :)

I don't have time to stay, just passing through, but Mere, that does look like a bigger version of those black weights used on groins just after a cardiac cath; good thinking.

is this thing on? test test

Exactly......good description.....packed...?  :)

I missed some of Greta and only heard JQK talking about the witness that we've been discussing here.  What was said about weights?

BTW, what happened to SM?  I tried getting on during Greta and it was down?  Server crash again?

From the front page last night......Greta's show....with JQK.....

igsigs Says:

June 22nd, 2006 at 10:46 pm
Greta

JQK - JQK put this witness in touch with KJ in april. In jail now. Feels sorry for the guy. Beach guy- Carlos the Colombian. Witnessed Natalee being assaulted, disposal of body in water. Attacker tall and thin.
Physical evidence- weights…consistent with his story. Fear he might dissapear-thus detention. NFI/Aruba acting slowly. Police on strike? JQK thinks they have been on strike for 13 months!

Thanks Mere!

i posted about this black bag about 8 or 9 months ago.  It is similar to the ones Deepak and satish carry their belingings from jail with.

LOL, Blah.  Deepak's luggage.

Hey!  What's up with the boards?

I'm seeing faces again!  :shock:

From djpen's photos:

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/SunFreak2/f4d526af.jpg)

Social & Domestic Issues  
Replace Liberal with Morally Decayed
by Mike Thompson
Posted Jun 23, 2005

Fifty years ago, a  decade after Europeans had been extricated from the hellhole of World War Two by their magnanimous American cousins, the Old World denizens again were enjoying the fruits of civility envisioned for them in their Maker’s original Garden of Eden.

Yet, British writer William Golding, eventual winner of a Nobel Price for literature, foresaw how easily barbarism again could vanquish the West’s inherent Christian decency.  His Lord of the Flies, published in 1954, was the first of three allegorical novels that would explore fundamental challenges to human existence, survival and freedom. Lord of the Flies specifically describes the horrific slide into savagery by aband of young children following the crash of their plane on a small tropical island (not too unlike Aruba, in the southern Caribbean).
True to Golding’sprophetic vision, by the mid- 1960s Western Europe, including the redoubtable British Isles, had begun a hedonistic rear march into the hypnotic ancient land of Anything Goes. In the Netherlands (AKA Holland), the Dutch even would coin a word to describe their retreat to moral anarchy: gedoogcultuur, “the culture of permissiveness.” (Remember, these are the same people who a few decades earlier had contributed to English language the term “Dutch uncle,” that is, a stern, relatively decent mentor who tries to keep others on the straight and narrow path.)

Here, as Golding predicted with clarity, are some terminal, cancerous, liberal sores that today fester on Holland’s once-traditional and healthy body politic:

Scantily clad prostitutes laze about in urban storefronts so that sex-hungry passersby can window-shop for a steamy middle-of-the-day liaison. Meantime, the Sex Workers Union (blue-collar hookers) is pushing the Dutch government to allow the pimpish labor bosses to crank up in Amsterdam’s Schiphol Airport the fastfood-restaurant-sounding “YumYum Caviar Club,” which actually would be a bordello for horny in-transit travelers. (One of the Netherlands’ biggest imports has become “whordes,”so to speak, of attractive young East European women to replace the aging pool of native Dutch prostitutes.)
Local and tourist pedophiles, the most unrepentent of dirty old men, roam the land with impunity since the 1990 national “reform” legislation lowered the age of sexual consent to 12 (think of your own children and grandchildren when they were that age, one year shy of being even a teenager).
The grossest pornography available can be purchased in chain grocery stores, just down the aisle from tofu and skim milk, and graphic nudity is a big hit on “family hour” prime-time, through-the-air television.
Marriage is a legal right of homosexuals, even if it includes serial infidelity on both sides.
“Dutch treat” has become another perverted expression, no longer meaning that two people at the same table simply pay for their own share of the food or drink bill. The only Dutch “treat” today is physically, mentally and socially ruinous, and exemplified by 210 Amsterdam “coffee shops” that really are dens for foreign and domestic marijuana users, and 75 “bars” for hash heads. Holland has become the drug capital of Europe and is blamed by Britain and France for exporting at least 80% of the heroin marketed into those countries, and 100% of the trade in nightmarish psychedelic substance Ecstasy.Meantime, absorbed with systemic liberal guilt over its colonial past, the Netherlands has opened the floodgates for immigrants from Indonesia, the Islamic colony in Asia which the Dutch ruled for three
Meantime, absorbed with systemic liberal guilt over its colonial past, the Netherlands has opened the floodgates for immigrants from Indonesia, the Islamic colony in Asia which the Dutch ruled for three centuries. This has resulted in one million Muslims (6% of Netherlands’ population) living in little Holland (slightly larger than Maryland), whose four largest cities now count Muslims under age 14 as the majority of their youth. Such immigration also has resulted in an outbreak of deadly tit-for-tat terrorism between Indonesians and a handful of unapologetically militant Dutch nationalists.
All these sad details of Dutch decay are important because it goes a long way toward explaining what is happening, and not happening, in Dutch-owned Aruba, an island speck that is a world away geographically but only a heartbeat away culturally from the motherland.

No longer a colony but a full-fledged political division of the distant Netherlands, Aruba is a mélange of 70,000 multicultural souls on an island off the South American coast about the size of Washington, DC.

Like Mother Holland, Aruba boasts that its crime rate is “very low.” Also like Mother Holland, however, Aruba has a low crime rate in large part because so little tawdry and outright dangerous activity in its laissez-faire environment actually qualifies as a crime; furthermore, if such activity is criminal, the police tradition in many cases (based on the Dutch model) is to wink at the perps and head for the nearest Dunkin’van Donuts for a quick sugar-fix. In the wake of the highly reported May 20 disappearance of teenage American tourist Natalee Holloway, USA Today has reported this less-than-professional Aruban attitude toward crime statistics:

“Detailed crime statistics are hard to come by: In 2003, the most recent year with available data, there were 4,236 crimes, though no specifics on those against tourists. According to Aruba's attorney general, five homicides were reported last year. But police have not provided a breakdown of offenses since 1995, says Martijn Balkestein of the Central Bureau of Statistics.”

A more frightening portrait of Dutch/Aruban police incompetence in dealing with “noncriminal criminals” emerged in an Associated Press story that details how Natalee’skinfolk in Alabama, not the Karibbean Kops, nailed the prime suspect, the playboy son of an influential local official:

Hi All!  Good to have a place to chat - now that there is sort of some news!


FYI - Rob just posted this at BFN...


Re: OPEN DISCUSSION - NATALEE - JUNE, 2006
« Reply #263 on: Today at 03:16:09 PM »
   
I recieved some info that this columbian guy does not have any info and could be lying.. as most may know.. i have known about this guy since around the first week of may or end of april, then he fell off the radar..there might not be a condom, and if there is ~ it is not in the possession of the ALE, as i understand what was just related to me..i also was told at the time he passed some background checks and some other type of testing and that he may be more than a witness currently...if he has a condom, it could still be in Venezuela.

however the belt found by Art Wood was found fifty feet from the rock area.
and this is where Dave spotted Halley shutting the trunk of the car..

also, there was a columbian boy apparently recovered in the dunes area.. 1 YEAR prior to Natalee disappearing.

that is a fact known only to a few ppl, and that info was disclosed before the massive searching began for Natalee..

Sunfreak, you rock!!!!!!

Hey Monkeys...

Hi Mrs. Red

Awful quiet in here  :cry:


Thanks to TOM and Red for getting us off the FP.

Someone just sent me that, but I'm not sure I understand it.  Does anyone else?

Hi everyone.. Nice to see yah~!

EASYWROTER.. can you check your email when you get a moment? TY!

  Sorry  EASYWRITER..  (leave it up to me to typo already.. lol  ughh)

Reading  Robs post... more then a witness? Could that possibly mean a suspect????

Hi Angie - not sure where everyone is right now.  Think they are waiting on Tom to get the rest of the forum posts loaded.

  Howdy Klaas~!   Ummm.. are we not suppose to be posting here?
I am a little lost.. been working.. and out of the loop~! :)

Hey guys,

I read Rob's post that was brought over and I didn't really understand it either. It sounds kind of contradictory, so I assume that means I'm missing something.

Tom hasn't said no, so I guess it's OK.  I just don't want to post too much that needs to be moved later, like alot of photos.

  Well hell.. nobody has to worry about me posting pics..LMAO
I tryed once and blew the pages~!!  :)
  TY Tom for working on the boo boo .. whatever it is~!!  HUGS!


 HI MOM~!

Hey monkeys! What's shakin? Besides my bee-hiney, that is  :lol:

 

  Hi Mishy.. we all be naked right now..lol  :)

What he's saying here is the 7yr old boy that was found happened a year before Natalee disappeared - was found a year before Natalee was in Aruba.  That would mean the rock area is a NH crime scene and not that of a 7yr old boy.

Can someone email me the link to BFN back up ??  TIA
Angiex911dsptchr@aol.com

I'm not sure either but I thought it was interesting that he too is hearing that the witness may be involved.

TY MERE~!!

Klaas.. TY.. that makes some sense.

Oh wow, I didnt' even notice til you said something Ang! hahahaha

Yes, thanks Klaas! I'm about to go to the movies. See ya later, monks!!

  Have a great time~!

The time seems to be posting correctly again.

I was really disoriented there for a while. :?

I can see a tennis show also. As for the rest of it ?
And this bag is from the AruBay vids ?
Having a hard time trying to figure this one out.
Where was the bag found ?
I am +++++++ right now.

My time says 11:19 PM....LOL

So, is this spot near the rocks some type of sacrificial burial ground, or something?  I don't know which coincidence would be more flabbergasting!

Mine says 7:17. One of us is in the wrong time zone. :lol:

Wasn't Jossy told that it was during the same time as Natalee?

  My time is always messed up.. I dunno how to fix it.. but its ok.. I have a clock hanging on the wall above my desk.. and my cell here next to me. and a watch..LOL  :) :)

 8) I'm 6:20....are you logged in Angie?

Maybe this Columbian guy has been turned into a crown witness?  Lordy, I hope they haven't turned him into a scapegoat.  :shock:

 :lol: And don't forget - it's always five o'clock somewhere in the world. :lol:

Me too Sunfreak.  That was a great article.

  Yeppers ONO~!!  The time is always wrong for me..LOL I am EST..
I dont pay much attention to it.. its almost 7:30 pm here..lol
Great to see you~! :)

[quote="Ono
 :lol: And don't forget - it's always five o'clock somewhere in the world. :lol:[/quote]

  LOL ~! I have a nice ICE cold beverage here on my desk as I type~! :)

I've never had a good feeling about this witness, but if ALE divers went to the site he described and found anything at all it would indicate that he did see something.  I don't think he is the right age to be running with Joran's pack of party buddies.  So, you have to ask how would this Columbian illegal become involved in the actual crime.....

That is my biggest fear.  I just hope there's more that we don't know and it will all fall into place.  Though, so far - nothing has!  :oops:

Unless they are trying to pin it on a choller friend of his!  That is my fear.

Angie

If you're still there, would you please e-mail me?

You can say anything you want - I'm just trying to check out a new setting on the computer.

Thanks.

  LOL ~! I have a nice ICE cold beverage here on my desk as I type~! :)[/quote]

 :lol: Going to the kitchen and get my wine right now! :lol:

His story has sounded pretty far out there so far.  My questions are 1) why did he wait about 10-11 months before coming forward?  I can understand the fear of being deported, but what motivated him recently to do it anyway? The money? But even if it is the money, why still wait so long?  2) Even though they found weights at the place where he said they'd be, how long were those weights really in the water?  Now we hear he may be involved in the disposal.  Something just sounds hinky to me, too.  But oh how I hope this will solve this case.

BTW, is all of Aruba under a gag order or just the ALE/justice dept. & the rest of the government?

This is sorta sad to say but many times both over seas and here in the US  or end up being pinned on transiets or homeless people .
  The reasons are  they are usually percieved as useless to socity They usually have an alcohol or drug problem  and many  suffer with some sort of mental illness
  and they most of the time have no one to stick up for them except for their public Deffender which is usually  not the best friend to have in a case like that unless you get very very lucky in who you get or if it is a high profile case .JMHO
  Jerry from Ohio

Well...one thing makes does make sense: Keeping him safe & sound in jail, with the way things go down on that Unsafe Island. Didn't Jossy say he passed a lie-detector test?

Jerry, I agree.

hello you all`and to think, last night I thought the problem with the site was either with my computer, or was just me :?

Whoa! Can someone summarize for me what's been happening?!

Hi, monkeys! It's the weekend so I get to be online! Whoohoo! How is everyone?

Has anyone ever sandbagged due to storms???  The bags look just like the one in the pic.. They are black with nylon threads and you scoop sand into them.  They could have empty bags all over the place (in case of high water threat).  It would be easy to find the sand to fill them with.  And........the top of the bag looks like spilled sand.......

Hi Justins, I don't know what is going on yet, just got here myself.

Easy

What is dos Santos' first name???

Don't get me wrong, I do think J and K2's were probably responsible, but I am amazed at all the people coming out of the woodwork that were up and about during the wee hours of that morning in Aruba. The guy tooling over to his friends to cool off because his house was too hot, the guy who had an argument with his girlfriend or whatever and takes a drive to the beach, the after hours parties we heard about~lots of roaming on that island. Creepy if ya ask me :shock:

This was just posted by Shizaru over at BFN:

Google Hits:

Did a comparison with other famous missing people, thought this result was interesting

"Natalee Holloway": 1.3 million hits
"Jimmy Hoffa": 818,000 hits
"Chandra Levy": 244,000 hits

"George Smith" missing: 93,000 hits
"Natalee Holloway" missing: 629,000 hits

What is it about this case that has caused it to become the most famous unsolved missing persons case since Hoffa?  Maybe the most famous ever?

Well, for starters, it was a case and a face I could instantly identify with. I felt like my girls came very close to going on that trip and not returning. I instantly adopted Natalee into my heart. The story reached out, got ahold of my heart, and has not let go.

I am in no way, shape or form saying Beth should not have let Natalee go. I refused to let any of my daughters go on those trips, they always begged and I never gave in. One reason was, I was too afraid something would happen to them, and the other reason was, it did not fit into my budget.

Hi everyone,

I've been on the road (I'm in the Houston area now) and I wasn't aware we were "down" again... I DID notice that I couldn't get on here late last night. When did we go out?

I am back in thread #476. Red, I am up to that point if that becomes a factor again... :wink:

I'll keep the posting to a minimum like Klaasnd said but I DO want to hear about this "weight" business.

I've mever Googled "Natalee Holloway."  Just think of the people who follow this case that have never gogled her either or used some other search engine.  WOW!

Her age, her demeanor, her promise, her ability to have become someone who contributed to society unlike many who have passed on before her, plus her family represented the best of Americans.  Her parents although divorced, behaved in such a way that any child would be proud of them.  Finding their daughter meant more to them than the money they had saved for a rainy day, finding their daughter was the ultimate and foremost thing ever minds.  They showed complete class in front of and away from cameras.  They never lost control except the one time when Beth broke down and cried in front of the cameras and I expect she had tried not to do that.  Everyone saw her pain, her agony, and the complete cover-up from Aruba and all those who cheer for the good guys, knew Beth & Dave were the good guys and Aruba was the worst of what any country could be, the very nasty remarks from Arleen, Tito, Ruben, and the hateful posts by Julia Renfro, the ugliest of them all whose hard is lined with lead and her veins run ice water --- that was what represented Aruba while Dave & Beth and their friends and family, who were very respectable and warm and friendly, represented Natalee.

sorry :oops:  I did not realize posting was to be kept to a minimum, I will shush now.

Hi SB - we went down yesterday morning.  I don't think we've lost everything this time but Tom and Red need to add it all back.

COVER-UP

THE DISLIKE FOR ONE JVDS ...........

THE HOPE THAT JVDS GETS SNATCHED & DISAPPEARS FROM THE PLANET

THE HOPE THAT SOMEONE HAS THE BALLS TO TELL THE TRUTH FINALLY

THE HOPE THAT ARUBA WILL BE INVADED BY CHAVEZ

THE HOPE THAT ARUBA SINKS UNDER A TIDAL WAVE ...........

THE HOPE THAT THE KALPOES CRASH THEIR CAR INTO A TELEPHONE

POLE , KILLING ALL INSTANTLY .............

THE HOPE THAT PVDS & ANITA DROWN IN THEIR POOL ...............

THE HOPE THAT NATALEE WILL BE FOUND & THE FAMILY HAS CLOSURE

THESE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT KEEP BRINGING ME BACK ..

 8)

Widge- I gotta meet you someday ... you are a riot!

How about fecalauruba being swalloed by a black hole?

Hey ya'll!   Actually got measuarable rain today.

Actually, any quantum singularity would do the trick!

what's up Monkeys?

Hi Mrs. Red - TGIF!!  :lol:

Widget, I love your poetry! So gentle and specific and for a moment I could close my eyes and imagine...

The air tasted good at the thought...

Keep it up!

Gunslinger ,I have had thunder and lightning off and on for days and not a drop of rain.  Am I not living right?  Our temperature yesterday exceeded any since 1830.  We broke another record today.  Send rain, just any amount of rain.  Water bill is going to cause divorce. :lol:

My dear Klass  <g> Hi
  I believe tat the N case as gererated so much interest and concern because the ALE and the island of Aruba  was so BLATENT in their disreguard for Natalee and her family.
  Americans will and have stood for a lot from oter countries  citizens  but  PLEASE NEVER throw it right back in our faces  or we will come out like a fighter in the prize fight ring !
  Tat is what got everyone so angry  and Beth and her friends  just made sure that all of us back here new about it also .
  BTW  although I have never spoken to you I just wanted to sat tat you do a splendid Job in all that you do for the SM board .  So from me please accept a personalThank you from Ohio
   Jerry from Ohio

Nope , no conspiracies here, our host has on a connection that would make it very very hard to knock out.

But they can not put a @#$@# hard drive in this server that will last. I wanted to get you all up and running asap, so I did the quick fix.

We are looking into alternatives so hopefully this will not happen again, but we unfortunately can not control a hard drive failure or two.

For those who are not in and were added recently, Red is working on it and it should be done in a couple of days.

Hi Jerry - thank you very much!  I hope we get the rest of the forum back soon!!  

Sorry if I didn't answer this post right away but I was goofing off, playing games..  :wink:  :lol:

Tom - tell Server Pronto to stop purchasing their hard drives from the "flea market".. :lol:  :lol:

I don't know and I have asked several times.  I'm also supposed to get some pictures of Lorenzo, but have not thus far.

scared-tom wrote:

How much to talk the host into a mirrored-array?  SM has to be their most famous customer.

There is an Arthur Santos who I believe is Ally Santo's brother.  They both, Arthur and Ally are friends with Joran, Koen and Sander:

Arthur:
http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=EQRK.PIiLfERqdhf

Ally:
http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=XxFh8dFWzMR4N-E5

DITTO ~

Tom: You rock~! :D

It is being looked into. It is exhausting going from a standing start when these situations happen. I lost a whole day of work yesterday and half a day today on it.

Actually..I think Chavez and his minions are salivating at the impending fall of Aruba.....so like Cuba's demise.

I was told it was definitely not Ally Santos.  It was a guy that was at the casinos with them the night/morning after Natalee went missing.

Thanks Tom.

Thanks Tom and Red!   Whew it's awful when the board is down!  Hi Monks!  I loved JQ's remark about the aruban police being off the job  for the past 13 months!!!  I almost didn't turn Greta on...but now i am glad I did!  GO JQK!  Can someone explain where it comes from that the Columbian witness might be more than a witness??  TIA

OK, can someone straighten me out here?  I know what I have heard about the witness and them finding the weights and all, and it sounds like there may be something there.  I know J told us the dunes thing happened on June 10th "this past year" days after Natalee went missing.  First it was a sign Aruba says, now its a 7 year old boy.  But then I read what Rob has said, and don't understand the year difference.  We were told the body may have been there for a year prior to all of this.  But not found a year prior to this.  I am going to go make what I think looks like in that bag, can someone tell me where the shoe might be?  I have been to that sight, and that bag isn't all that big, maybe 3 feet by 3 feet.  The location of where that pic is taken is right in between the huts, cross the road, and it leads to the area that they drained, if that helps anyone.  That area you see is right after you go across the road, like a drain.  I am going to go make what i see and I'll post it if thats OK.  BRB

Klaas

Did you notice on Arthur's tickle site....the bottle of Absinthe (his friend?)? Isn't that the stuff from Greece that they talked about making people go crazy (in the George Smith case)?

Easy

Thanks for persevering (sp?).

thanks Hotshot!

thanks Easy....have you heard anything about the possibility that the Columbian witness may be more than a witness?  I didn't get a sense of that from JQ last night...just the fact the he felt the $$$ was what eventually brought this guy out??

Alex Matthews wasn't safe and sound in jail.  Same person supervises the prison now as when Mattews was drugged, beaten, tortured, etc.   :(

Oh, wait.  He changed his name so that means he doesn't do those things anymore, I guess.   :?

Well, we got about a dozen rain drops which went into the making of a huge fog bank!!  It could be worse, Tyler.  I couldn't drive in this if I had to!

 :?

Ally is a girl, the one who is in the prom/limo picture with Joran and Koen and Freddy.  I was thinking that it might be Arthur.

Hotshot

Pictures and shoe discussion on page 4.

yup

That is a new twist I read on the boards today.  I do know the guy was hard pressed for cash when he approached JM.  I also know that some of his story checks out and some of it bothers everyone that has heard it.  I want to know more about it, but I'm just not sure right now.

.
Maybe Dos Santos first name is Dos--get it??  Dos Santos??    8)

Isn't THE PURPOSE of reward money to bring people forward....make it worth the risk....especially in a corrupt area??

Didn't someone find a tickle site for a Bryan Dos Santos that was 20-years-old and one of his friend's pictures linked him to Arthur Santos and all the other usual suspects?

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/gummy_2006/bag.jpg)

And yes I was thinking it was a sandbag also.

There is a Bryan Dos Santos but I didn't find any links:

http://www.zorpia.com/cgi/album.cgi?username=85bryan&album_id=-1

LOL Anna your exactly right!!!

New front page post:

Aru-bay/Chicago Pond and White Bag Videos; Did a Witness say they saw Weights?

www.scaredmonkeys.com

.
This new Colombian witness just plain stinks.  Sorry, I do not mean personally he does but just this story we are being given.  It doesn't add up.

Supposedly he had two pieces of evidence so would that be the weights and the frozen condom he gave to his brother in South America?  What happened to all that talk?  And keeping a person in jail for over a month has to be a tremendous hardship on them and their family.  Who is supporting this man's wife and children if he has them?  Has he given a statement to the judge yet?  If not, why not?  Will his evidence be sent to that great black hole known as NFI never to be heard from again like all the rest?  Does it even do any good to have evidence if none of it is allowed or it disappears?

Is he being groomed to take the blame for all of this?  I just don't like the fact that we are getting so many different explanations for why he is being held so long and what evidence he has presented and why.  In Aruba, this kind of shuffle usually leads no where.  Just done to confuse and obfuscate.   :(

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=thcrig3LeMEDFIeJ

thanks Easy...I was wondering where the story came from.....Please let us know when hear something :wink:

Anna: I thought of that..the pains and agony that Alex Matthews suffered while in jail, but the way things seem to evolve in Aruba, as far as anything having to do with Natalee is concerned is...perhaps this guy (IF he is a legitimate witness) is better off in jail?

I think it appears to the careless observor, that if you are in any way, shape or form, connected to Natalee---that you suffer the tortues of the damned if you do not go "along with the program" (pro-Joran,etc.) ~

Alexx the axeman is friends with Bryan Dos Santos friend on his Tickle site.

Since the pictures have been removed...this must be him.  His only friend is Lilly...and Lilly has a friend called Daniiii e choller. hmmmmm...

Hey, that's bound to be a good person to be friends with.  You surely don't want anybody known as Axman posing with same for an enemy!!
 :wink: I wonder how he came to have that nickname, too.   :shock:

BBLater.. . . . . . . . . .

Alexx, the axeman, always gave me the "willies"....not to mention many horrific thoughts regarding Natalee.

I am sorry... I just cannot see this as any part of Natalee....When this video was filmed......exactly HOW FAR AWAY from this object was the camera man?

Did you notice that Lily's address is Noord?  :shock:

I think I was too busy looking at her sand sculpture...lol..

Who is that near?  Alto Vista - Nord?

Well you can see them walking on the road, and looking over.  It's about 10 to 15 feet away

As far as the pics (on page 4).  I don't see "the body" images either...but the top photo (the smaller one with the shot of the bag in the well) could have the sole of a shoe in the bottom right of the plastic. This would be the head area (I think) that other people are visualizing.

Hotshot - new front page post on the white bag and pond - check it out.

Alto Vista is the name of the street, right? 109c Alto Vista.  The town is Noord. Isn't Noord where the polis station, Lion's Club is and close to Montana?

Yes, Noord is where the police station is.  So she lives near the VDS and the Lions Den...in same general vicinity.  I thought maybe someone else lived on Alto Vista and didn't remember it. :wink:

Excellent pics Klaas.  When I went, I did the same route they did to see what they were trying to say, and that about summizes it all up.

HotShot - did you see my Face in the bag on page 5?

Thanks Hotshot!  Sometimes I feel like I have been there I've watched so many videos...ha ha ha  :lol:

Did I miss anything on Fox?  Have to finish catching up.  Hello, monkeys, btw!

Not sure If Jacqueline has been here, but just checked on Uncle Mike...another postponement...Day of week/dates are askew in the latest update, but here's the link:

http://www.freeunclemike.com/

yes I did, but that would make the face really tiny.  They were zooming in so, I just dont know.  I also looked for the sole of the shoe, and did see that in the top, but not the bottom ones.  The weight bag bothers me.  Oh by the way the second piece of evidence was not a weight, I forgot who said that. "sorry about that".

Klaas, no doubt in my mind, if you were to go, you would need NO map!!!

 :lol:  :lol:

Joran's shoe?  Natalee was wearing brown sandal flip flops that night, wasn't she?

Be back in a few minutes..going to play a quick game of spades  :lol:  :lol:

yes, I dont know what color but flip flops

I am now beginning to wonder if in fact, of Paulus' two eldest sons (assuming Lorenzo is his and his eldest), that Lorenzo just might be the really upstanding one (assuming we've been fed a bunch of bull by unseen Joran supporters), and that is why we do not hear or see him? He really had nothing to do with this after all.

Her flip flops were brown I believe.

I see what you mean ~

Night all....

Natalee Holloway was last seen wearing a blue, denim mini-skirt; a multi-colored halter top; and black flip-flop sandals

http://tinyurl.com/hm3w7      FBI

Oops! You're right! I just went to the FBI site~ Thanks! :D

Hi y'all

Glad to see everyone at home again...and...thank you Tom for all your hard work & sacrifice to get us there!

If someone wouldnt mind answering please....in the bag that some see a body in...it seems so small..so are y'all saying that it is not whole?  that is a very disturbing thought so I hope not....I personally can not make out anything.

Did the person who took these videos stage them or take actual footage?  I understood it was actual footage during the rock painting ...but what about this part?

Thanks to whoever cares to answer

FINGERPRINTS ON THE WEIGHTS?

Last night after we heard about the weights, we were speculating on whether the weights would hold fngerprints after being in the water for a year. I did some reserach on it and it doesn't sound very likely.

How long do fingerprints last on evidence?  Fingerprints on paper, cardboard and unfinished wood can last for up to forty years (per actual casework histories) unless exposed to water (and contaminate transfer prints can even then sometimes persist).  Fingerprints on non-porous surfaces such as plastic, metal and glass can last for many years if not exposed to water and if left undisturbed.

http://onin.com/fp/lpfaq.html#what_kinds_of_evidence

Hello monkeys.

Klaas, great pics on FP.  Is it possible to put the route taken on the aru-bay photos on that map in a different color?  It's easy to follow in the photos, but not so easy on the map.  Maybe when the rest of the forum goes up?  TIA.

tidy

PS, has anyone heard how Nonesuche and Mr. Nonesuch are doing?

Sure, I'll work on that.  I may need to get another satellite shot that takes in a larger area.

Thanks Klaas!  I don't remember if you had all/most of "your" maps posted when you were recently doing stickys?  Maybe it would take up too much bandwidth to post them all though.

Anyway, good night.

Tom is going to get the threads back, I'm sure of it.  It won't be a problem to post most of the maps when the site gets back to normal.  It's bare bones right now.

Well, it looks like the sandbags you fill to prevent water during flooding.  Those bags have to be propped open to fill with sand...then tied...I swear it looks like spilled sand over the top of the bag.  There could be prints around the edges.  Maybe that was what they wanted the DNA for (not the toothbrush).  If I remember correctly, the first time I heard the shoe story was from Tromp and Dave during the draining of the pond...maybe they found one shoe in the plastic and were looking for the other in the water????

Klaas:

Thank you!  Then you'll have most of the info all together in one spot for reference.  Thank you for all the hard work and time you have put into doing that.

Hello to the Monkeys who are still here,

I was distressed that the board wasn't working yesterday. Today I was busy all day and just signed on and read the back pages. I'm so sorry the board is still in flux and I want to thank Tom for his working in trying to get everything up and running again.

On the front page, in pic of the white bag, I do see the form of a body. On all the subsequent pics posted on this thread, I don't see a body. But as my very smart adopted daughter, SunFreak2 said, "First, we can't tell anything about the size of anything b/c there is nothing in the photo to give us a size relationship." I don't see feet or shoes (regarding Joran).  I see a body in a fetal position laying on it's left side, head bent down, back curved, legs bent and feet at the right. But what do I know?

As for what Rob posted at BFN, I no longer have confidence in anything he says. I don't believe he is making stuff up, but his head is somewhere in outer space lately. Just my humble opinion.

I missed Greta and John Q discussing the weights last night. Can anyone give me a clue? And if they are weights, how do the fit into the case? Was that picture supposed to show that the white bag was connected to the weights and they found the bag and weights in the water?

I heard over and over, from Beth, that the flip flops were brown. I specifically noted that because I would never wear brown flip flops with that outfit.

Good evening, Monkeys!  Like everyone here, I am thankful to have the forum back, even in its "bare-bones state".   I also want to thank Tom and Red and Mrs. Red for their work, time, and patience.  They are doing a very good work here, and I hope they know how much they are appreciated by so many.

SSD

Additionally, I don't understand what happened to the board that made it go down. Is Tom saying the company that provides the server no good or that their servers don't last or they wear out way too soon?

Louise

Go to FP post Aruba Police Task force....  scroll down to June 22 10:37 pm...there is transcriptions of Greta with JQK.

The FBI says black...so who knows??

I heard the same thing Louise - I was surprised to see the FBI site says black.

Sounds like the hard drives they use fail way too often.  I suggested Tom find out if they are getting their hard drives from the "flea market"  :lol:

Good evening!  Thanks for getting us back, Tom.

Very interesting development, not sure what to make from it yet.

Hey look, it's the edit button!  THERE IS A GOD!

Wow, how many times can you edit?

Hello hello hello........anyone here?

Should I turn out the lights?

There's an edit button?!  :shock:

No! Can't see the edit button with the lights out!

HA!  Can you see it now????? Maybe I should shhhhhhhhh before Red takes it away again?  Or maybe mine is special? ;)

Don't get too attached to the edit button, it probably won't last long, lol  :lol:

I had a feeling.........

Been lurking, catching up...hi guys!

On my screen, I don't see an edit button.

Look at your posts.... top right corner of the post.

On my last post just now, I saw the edit button, but not on anyone else's posts.

Have you guys looked at www.ashesandsnow.org?  Beautiful work!

Right, because you can only edit your own. :)

You would only see it on your posts to the upper right.

I need to take a quick bath, brb

Can we cuss while you are gone?

Did anyone else's heart sink when JQK said the evidence has been sent to the NFI for examination?

I've been sitting here mulling over the scenario as presented by the Columbian witness of the rape & disposal at sea.  Does anyone remember hearing about a cabdriver that ALE was trying to locate again?  The cabdriver who supposedly was up near the lighthouse or Arashi Beach that night?  Could he have been picking up 2 Kalpos, after they left sporter with Natalee with Deepak's car?  Then sporter takes the car back to the Kalpos who then drive him to the McD where Paula$$ comes to pick sporter up at 4AM.  Paula$$ swings by the bank to get money to give to the Deepuke for letting sporter use Deepuke's car, to pay for gas, to pay for getting the car detailed and/or repaired.  Deepuke leaves.  Paula$$ & sporter hook up w/ Korn who has Daddy's boat to retrive the body from where Joran stashed it in the water.  

Watcha think?

Evening, Monkeys!

O/T

whytegirl, you said the Solstice is your dream car.  Can you be in Portersville, PA at 10:30 in the morning?

AAAHHH!!! I am back on!! for awhile said invalid id or password. hello all!! Gotta catch up...been painting all day but where did that video come from...I don't know it's history.

Seems feasible. And wasn't there someone who said they overheard a scuffle/argument? that night on the beach?

That's where I heard it too.  Hi Mom, good to see your beautiful presence tonight. Hows the baby kitty doing?  :D

There are several aru-bay videos.  A poster by the name of Chicago_510 uploaded the ones pertaining to the case to google.  You can look through all of them from this link:

The video on the front page is Chicago video #24

http://tinyurl.com/8wcrq

thanks so much!! I just had never viewed this one before, didn't know there were others besides the painted rock ones.

Continuing the theme from the FP all day...... I think we have ALL the pertinent proof right in front of us. I know many of you doubt what our FBI knows and have been doing in this case. I may be totally wrong ... but I am more and more confident that this case is about to explode with answers!
This case is much deeper than we all can imagine. International relations and on-going cooperative intelligence activities are playing a role in how this plays out. The FBI will comment ONLY at the appropriate time.  I just feel that this will be something completely amazing when it finally can be told.
I'm ready to be ridiculed!!!  :oops:   :shock:   :roll:

Wouldn't this be awesome?????

I hope very much you are correct!

Hi Sun,

You are one of the best "out of the box" thinkers on the board. Your scenario is plausible. But do you think Deepak would leave his beloved car with Joran?

The baby kitten is doing well. I already lost her three times today inside the apartment! Panic.

With Love

.... to further go out on a limb ......
It would not shock me that  Aruba's independence from The Netherlands is in play here. They may be letting Oduber/Croes hang themselves. ( I told you this is going to amaze you) ---- I guess we'll just have to see.

 :D You owe me PAWPRINTS!!!  Hey I checked the label on the side of the door and yes, my van was made in BAMA!!!!!

Does not ring a bell with me, should be far from Erie.

Check out this article in my newspaper....a sub to find missing people underwater and to carry out searches!!

http://tinyurl.com/myhfq


NEW ROBOT FOR ACQUATIC SEARCH

The extensive searches in rivers, lakes and in the sea to locate missing or drowned people no longer will have to represent a danger for the divers that dedicate themselves to this type of rescue operation.

The State Agency for Manejo de Emergencias (AEME) finishes acquiring a submarine robot that will serve to look for objects and people in the water bodies of the Island.

To the vanguard
$90 thousands
cost of the submarine robot of the AEME Nazario Lugo, executive director of the AEME, explained to the New Day that the equipment was acquired with bottoms of the Department of federal National Security to a cost of $90,000.

“This equipment allows to do searches of disappeared people, of explosives or any device that can have in a water body, without is direct bonding of the human being”, explained Lugo.

The submarine, that it has of three on four feet of length, also will extend the time search since a diver can remain under the water with an oxygen tank a maximum time of 45 minutes. “With this equipment we can be hours. As much in waters in movement, calm, in sea or lakes and rivers”, it specified Lugo.

The unit has a system of cameras that allows that the civil employees supervise the searches from a boat that remains in the surface.

At the moment the AEME is training to some of their employees to handle the sophisticated equipment, that is in exhibition in the Convention the International of Security and Health that is carried out in center until today of Conventions of Puerto Rico.

I'm not going to ridicule you. I think the depth of the corruption and coverup will be astounding when it is revealed.  I also believe there is much more evidence and witness statements we haven't heard about.  It seems to me that the only results of evidence we have heard about is unusable evidence and that is why we are told.  Positive evidence (usuable for trial) is kept secretive so as to maintain its integrity.  I read that one of the reasons the Dutch use this legal system is to protect the integrity of the investigation which protects the integrity of the prosecutors case. I think they have circumstantial evidence, but they need that one dammin piece of evidence since there is no body. I've been told by a source very close to this case that the tip of the iceberg has been verified and they are beginning to delve into the rather large iceberg below.  They could blow it out of the water right now and many would be shocked, but they want to probe it as deep as they can first.  Sounds exciting and frightening at the same time.  I just hope that when the case blows open, that Natalee's loved ones don't get hit with flying scrapnel.  The truth is bound to be very shocking to some and disappointing to others.

Thank you, Louise.  I think Deepak might do it for the money or b/c he is beholden to Joran for something.  IOW, Joran's holding something over Deepak controlling him.  

It is scary when you can't find the little guys.  I couldn't find one of my dogs last night after the workmen were in & out of the house all day. I was getting ready to get dressed and go hunt outside for her when she finally showed up from hiding under the dresser.   I'm glad you found your baby and that I found mine too.  :D

Goodnight Klaas.  Finally I'm up to say goodnight to you.

nite all too!

Goodnight whytegirl.

G'nite all.  Rest well with pleasant dreams.   :D

http://tinyurl.com/eumey

Crime and Punishment Poll results as of 6/24/2006am

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/pollcrimepunishment1.jpg)

Joran Driving Depak's car

On TV when this case first started I thought Mr. Croes who paid the money to find info on where Joran lived, also said that the informers told him that Joran drives that car a lot. "Oh that Joran's car" IMO to me it means he is seen driving it too. I thought I had gotten the impression then that he drive a lot when underage.

Things get fuzzy in this case... just trying to remember.

Thanks everyone for all your hard work keeping this site together!

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Weight1.jpg

Take a look at this pic of the weight. Just so everyone knows, this is what I did after I cropped: I "auto contrasted, auto colored, and sharpened entire picture." Then I sharpened the three "highlights on the object ( white reflections) the same amount. The upper "white highlight" looks like a word to me. Anybody else's opinion?

Sorry... it was to read "drove"

Sorry! I didn't even say HI!!!! I was back reading and just saw the weight pictures.

Just an FYI,  really popular sandal these teens wear is called the Rainbow sandal and they do come in brown only, so I tend to believe Beth likely were referring to those. Kids wear them with anything, just a really popular sandal. Where did the FBI say black? I"m so out of it, been so busy with doctors this week.

Tidy- I owe you email, I am woefully behind but he's holding his own. His bloodwork looked much better than he does, but post 4 IV's Friday afternoon of supplements we're hopeful he can just hold out thru one more week of radiation. Thank you for asking and caring.....

BonDia  June 23, 2006
Warning!  Picture of a corpse on the front page

http://www.cspnv.com/archivo/pdf/23/A-23-06-2006.pdf
http://www.cspnv.com/archivo/pdf/23/B-23-06-2006.pdf
http://www.cspnv.com/archivo/pdf/23/C-23-06-2006.pdf

Papiamentu Translator:
http://www.donamaro.nl/papiamentu/

Diario   June 23, 2006
http://www.diarioaruba.com/diabierna/frontpage/index.html

Did the Columbian guy plant the evidence of the weights and then tell the polis the beach story so that he could collect the reward money?

None
Hope all is well.  See FBI quote and link:

Natalee Holloway was last seen wearing a blue, denim mini-skirt; a multi-colored halter top; and black flip-flop sandals

http://tinyurl.com/hm3w7

I thought of that too.  If the weight is a sandbag, like the Chicago video...that was filmed in June 2005.....another mystery..

This is why I have doubts about this guy Leslie.  But then again I think his story would have to stick.  Didn't JQK say he signed a contract for the reward money.  If this guy does not identify Joran as the guy he saw that night with Natalee then this is a scam.  I just don't trust anything coming out of Aruba.

She also has a friend named Marten.   :roll:

I think it's odd, he hung out long enough to see the swim out and return but not to get the plate number...unless he actually did get it and we don't know.  I think he would have called in an anonymous tip long ago....then again, maybe he did.

My Morgan dog is missing but I think I am still here.  If anyone sees this HI and Good Morning.

Just reading back....did the evidence (weights) get sent to the "Black Hole" for testing?

Good Morning All!

Anything new?

Good morning!  So this is about the 3rd time the discussion forum disappears.  I think few people are going to continue to post.

Good morning Easy.  I don't know if there is anything new-looking around for info myself :)

Hello Morgan.  We are all nekky this morning.

Good morning MominTN.  It is indeed unfortunate the discussion forum has again disappeared, but I think per Klaasend, Tom and/or Red may be able to recover some of it.  I think people will continue to post-I know I will.  I hope you do too :)

I don't see any reason for there not being an edit button ~ nor PMs now anymore...

I've been looking around and all the boards seem to be a little quiet this morning.  I keep hoping for that big break to happen while I am sleeping and to read about it here when I wake.

See where Arron Spelling and Patsy Ramsey died.

I don't see an edit button.

isn't it interesting that it is either yes he did it or no he didn't, not many in betweens!!

I would think one reason would be is if someone left the forum that provided important information they have the ability to delete it.  I agree that there should never be an edit button.  Once you hit submit it should be there to stay.  I never really had any use for the PMs because I use my email address.  I guess it would be good because if people don't want to give their personal email address out they could use PMs.

Good morning monkeys.

I tried to put my clothes back on, but it told me it couldn't upload my avatar. :(  It's sooooo embarrassing to be prancing around nekky like this. :oops:  :lol:

Easy,

I didn't know Patsy Ramsey had died. What did she die from?

I missed both deaths!! Poor Patsy Ramsey. Was it cancer? What that woman went through...I NEVER believed it was her and her hubby that killed Jon Benet

What did Patsy Ramsey die of?   I hadn't heard about it.

Easy there was an edit button last night but they probably fixed the problem.  I even had a delete post button :shock:

I read that at another site and now I can't find it on any of the news sites.  The other site said ovarian cancer.

that's what my Momma dies of..she was only 49..it's awful..usually EVERYWHERE by the time they find it. She was finally diagnosed a week and a half before she passed..by then it was too late to do anything. 4th of July will be 13 years..still seems like yesturday, and still hurts as bad..that's why I can't even fathom Beth's pain!! In conceivable to me.

Patsy Ramsey died of a reaccurrance of Ovarian Cancer.  She was first diagnosed in 1993, had been clear for 9 years.  Very sad.

Very sad indeed.  :cry:
Every time I hear of something like this, I'm so grateful that I have none of those female parts left. :oops:

I'm so sorry ldstlou about your Mom.  Mine died at age 49 too, but from a different kind of cancer, and that was almost 30 years ago.  I was quite young when she passed.

My condolences to both of you. :(

This makes sense to me. That statement/question always bothered me.  Why would he obey that law when he has such disregard for the rest of them?

I see that were back up and thats good..  Anything on the case for this weekend?

Kimberly on The Lineup with have something on the case this evening at 9pm eastern time.

Kimberley G might have a good show tonight.  I think she has Beth, Dave, JQK, Art  Wood and Jossy Mansur lined up for The LineUp.

ooops, I must have been posting at the same time as Klaas.

Thanks!! I was young..28 but my siblings were quite younger..baby was 18 and just graduated. We are all ok now. Just still get sad she never knew my son!!

Exactly.  He laughs at he law.  He knows he has Van der Straaten right in his back pocket if he got stopped by the police.

When he was on either the Greta or Chris Coumo interview notice how quickly he mentioned he didn't drive.  That was to discredit the gardner or anyone else seeing drive.

well...better get over to my rehab project so I can be home to watch the show!! Body still aches from yesturday though!! So sore!! Positive side is I lost 5lbs last week working on the house!! WOOHOO!! See you all this evening!!

Why  don't  more folks use an  E-Mail addy so that if we do want to ask a question we can write them ?
  and why dont more SM tell a little more about themselves  such as what aera they live in or are from so that we could get a more personal view of them ? (sorry my H is still acting up again .
  Jerry from Ohio and isnt afraid to say it  LOL   :shock:  

**************************************************
  I never really had any use for the PMs because I use my email address.  I guess it would be good because if people don't want to give their personal email address out they could use PMs.[/quote]

[/quote]

Jerry from Ohio, I am Lisa from Ohio. Born in Steubenville, raised in Columbus and moved to St Louis 7 years ago. Good to see a fellow Buckeye!! GO BUCKS!! Am I allowed to say sc__ the Blue?!  :o  :lol:

Will miss the Line Up tonight due to a wedding reception, and will hope that tidbits are posted here,when we return.  Confused the weekend edition last night when I asked if anything was on Fox....

Good morning, all.

I think it repeats at midnight, just in case you want to catch it.

[/quote]

There are too many nuts out there that read this board and I don't want to hear from any of them in my email.

That sounds like a good line up for tonight.. Everyone take care, I have to do some stuff.. Work seems to know when I want play and tries to make it hard..

Hi 2NJSons,

Depending on how I'm feeling I will transcribe what I can but I can't promise you.

Thanks, Klaasend.  The rerun may be perfect timing, for the reception should be over at 11pm, here, and we should be home, hopefully by midnight, unless family lingers at the restaurant.  (Now, isn't that a horrific run-on sentence?!)

Morning monks...

I saw where Patsy Ramsey and Aaron Spelling died...Maybe Patsey will finally know what happened to sweet Jon Benet  :cry:

I've already got the Line Up programmed on my DVR  :wink:

Hi, San...no worries if you can't do it.  I'm sure I'll survive on comments in the forum, otherwise.  

Thanks.

There are too many nuts out there that read this board and I don't want to hear from any of them in my email.[/quote]
Unfortunately, it is never a good idea to expose your e-mail address in a public forum. There are actually robots that scan forums that pick-up random addys to send you spam/spyware etc. That's why PMs are preferable.

I rec'd 3 bulk emails from strange addys 2 days ago, all of which were marked as having a virus attachment.  This was a first for me.  I deleted them, and ran Adaware and antivirus, and so far haven't had it happen since.  Did not think of a robot and the forum, but rather, someone on my list having a problem.  mmmmmmm

I think the PMs are a great idea as well...unless the privilege is used to abuse...

I got stung last week by a spoof PayPal. I went to the "PayPal" site in the email and gave them by PayPal password. They asked for more info, but I didn't give it. I called Paypal and emailed the other fake vendor.
NEVER GO TO A SITE, ANY SITE FROM THE EMAIL.
CLOSE THE EMAIL AND GO TO THE SITE BY THE USUAL METHODS YOU USE.
I changed my password with PayPal and they also sugested that I do that frequently. PayPal has now frozen my account for a while. Even I cannot get any money out of there. I have to check all my accounts every day
and hopefully in a while, things will normalize.
I have my email address here, but I am thinking that my email address might be public from some other places where I used to post. RVW for starters.

I have seen the same scam from "eBay." You will get a very real-looking e-mail saying you need to update your credit card info. Reputable companies will NEVER ask you to do this from an e-mail.

O/T - One more picture of a different Rose I planted.
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/Rose13.jpg)

Yep, my hubby got one of those PayPal emails about a month ago.  It was discussed here in the forum about a week or so ago, and I shared the info with him.  He had not used the accout in a long time, so when he got the email, he flipped.  I've even gotten them on the corporate network, and reported them.  Once got one from a client, SunTrustBank, referencing an account I did not have with them.  Later, a notice went through warning about such.

Klaas, if you are here, I was wondering where you play spades. I have been playing in msn zone classic spades for years now, and they decided to revamp their site so all of the teams/leagues/ladders players have found new sites to call home.

Very beautiful, San.  Lovely color.  I'm back to rose envy.  I have only one tea rose surviving and have no blooms.  All of my others died in the past couple years.  Their location became too shaded due to trees that grew so tall they blocked the sunlight.  The trees are now gone, so I'm thinking I should get some new ones to cultivate.

I just wasn't thinking.  :oops:  :oops:  :oops:  :oops:  :oops: It was late at night. But, I just went to PayPay and some other stuff, everything OK. I have insurance for this kind of thing, but what a pain in the ! !
I passed the warning to ppl I know who have PayPal b/c it is too easy to be a dummy like moi.

I have only gotten 2 virus emails for my SM account ever... but my personal account... which I use for family, etc. that account gets hit hard all the time...

I get the paypay thing... and I have never used them!!

Hey everyone!  Just popping in to see what is happening.

In today's Diario - looks pretty interesting.  If Whytegirl is around maybe she can give us a clue what it says.

  Polis falso tabata kier pa nan haci sex su dilanti MARDUGA TURISTANAN MERICANO A YAMA CONSULADO DI MERCA PA PIDI ASISTENCIA

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Un caso lamenta a keda registra, y DIARIO ta insisti cu e tin di worde investiga profundamente pa autoridad concerni.  Mescos cu regularmente ta socede na Los Angeles y na Cancun regularmente unda hendenan ta impersona Polis djis pa comete crimen... algo asina awor ta socede na Aruba!

   Tin di captura e Polis falso aki cu a pone pais Aruba den luz negativo.  Isla di Aruba a haya bastante golpi caba relaciona cu e caso Natalee, awor ta bin esaki cerca? Un homber di habla hispano, a haya ta bon pa hunga como Polis falso.

   Segun e informe suministra na Central di polis cual a keda registra pa 2’or di marduga cu presencia di un patruya ta worde rekeri na un Lowrise Hotel.

   E unidad policial cu a presenta a atende e mucha muher di inicialnan H.M.C. di 19 aña naci Merca y ta hospeda pa un hotel. Segun e mucha muher, e tabata sinta riba beach disfrutando di briza di laman den compania di su amigo. Pero a aparece un homber bisti cu un trahe blou ("bluawe pak" manera polis a describi esaki).

    E homber a bisa e bishitantenan cu e ta Polis y e tin di duna nan boet di 500 Dollar. Debi cu e turistanan a viola leynan vigente.

   E turistanan mes no por a comprende ki ley nan a viola y tampoco e articulo di ley cu e homber “in blue” ta menciona.

   Hunto cu e “man in blue”, nan a bay direccion di nan camber pa asina regla e asunto di boet. Pero e Polis falso aki a bisa e turista encuestion si bo paga 50 Dollar e ta deshaci di e boet.

   E turista a draai contesta e Polis falso cu nan no tin placa e momento ey den nan poder. Direpiente e polis falso a haci uso di un celular y supuestamente e tabata delibera... Dios sa kende, of ta laga aparenta cu e ta papiando cu un persona, su combersacion tabata na spaño segun e turista a laga miembronan di patruya comprende.

   Cos a bira mas serio ora cu e polis falso a regresa y a bisa e turistanan e lo siguiente: "Si boso haci sex dilanti mi"... e ta deshaci completamente di e boet encorto e ta destrui esaki.

   Ora cu e turistanan a scucha esaki nan a probecha na un dado momento di drenta den nan camber y dal e porta sera.  Mesora nan a yama number di telefon di Consulado Mericano na Curaçao pa pone nan na altura di e sucedido.

   Segun version ta indica cu esun cu a atende nan na Consulado, a notifica nan pa yama Warda di Polis inmediatamente, y esey a worde haci mesora.

   Mientras gerente di hotel a tuma medidanan ta suplica tur nan guests, tanto bishitante y tambe local pa no duna ID of paspoort na ningun hende si no ta autoridad competente.

   E caso serio aki tin debido atencion di autoridad competente si tin cualkier persona cu lo por a wak un tipo bisti cu "blue suit" e marduga pa mes o menos 2’or pa reporta autoridad pa asina logra pone man riba e anti social aki pa asina lastre hibe dilanti Corte pa a causa daño na nos industria turistico cual pueblo ta depende di dje.

http://www.diarioaruba.com/diabierna/noticia/news3.html

Hey, monks! How are y'all on this fine June day?

It's the weekend, so I get to be online! :P

good to see you justinsmom!

When I try to respond to the sender, I can go to a site in the NL.
I will have to be on Scam Alert now that I know about this kind of stuff.  
 :roll:  :roll:  :roll:
Thank you for all your hard work on this forum and getting things back
up ! ! I do not get Fox, so I will have to rely on the monkeys for the synopsis. And we do have some very smart monkeys here I might add. And some cheeky ones too !!

Last night I think it was Tidycat that was looking for the satellite view of the aru-bay pond video and the routes it took.  The satellite view has to be a large picture so I put it in a separate thead so it won't blow the margins here:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=3

Hope that helps people get an idea of where they were taking the video.

hey justis...

It's good to be here with my fellow monkeys! Justin "let" me lurk a bit last week, but it was not quite the same.  :? Very busy at work.  

My right hand is slightly numb along the pinky side. Spent several hours at the key board on Tuesday at work (like 8) to catch up paper work. Taking ibuprofin in case it is a nerve that is inflamed from too much of that typing. Anyone else had anything similar?

That smiley face was supposed to an eight...

Anyone care to summarize the week?

Justinsmom, it could be from you typing.  I have had a sore wrist before from being on the computer too much.  Ibuprofen is good to take.  If it is from the computer it should get better in a few days.  If it doesn't you might want to have it checked out.

 :D Good Morning All!

Klass: Thank you so much! That makes it clear to me for the first time!

I've not been on much this week so I don't have much news.  I think Beth is going to be on Kimberly's show tonight.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

That is correct.  Beth will be on and I believe Dave and Skeeters via phone.  Kimberly is on FOX at 9pm eastern.

I get alot of shoulder / hand distress from mousing and keying at work.
At home too. I am going to go and look at some technology for home..
I want a hand held remote mousie possibly laser so I can just not use a conventional mouse.

FYI - regarding the mouse.

I have very small hands and have always had problems using normal size mouses.  What I've done to solve my problem is go to a laptop mouse.  It's a small, child sized optical mouse with a cord, the one I use is a Fellowes.  Works perfect for me.  I'm on the computer all the time and have no problems with my hands.  Now if I can just figure out a way to solve my neck problem, lololol.

There is an article on the front page of Bondia from 6/23/2006 regarding a body that was found - WARNING GRAPHIC PHOTO.

http://www.cspnv.com/archivo/pdf/23/A-23-06-2006.pdf

Here is a short summation of the article from Easywriter's friend:

Yes it is. It's about the body of a woman in advance state of decomposition.
 
The authorities of Aruba arrested a man who tried to gain access to the island illegally. he told the police that he was part of a group of 8 persons trying to get to Aruba by sea.This has led the police to believe the body of the woman may be one of the 8 persons in the gorup of illegals trying to get to Aruba.

G'day Monkeys..

Have developed a summer cold or something.. Head feels kinda like a large Pumpkin  sitting on my shoulders :shock:  :cry:

Klaasend
I guess the smaller size mouse makes it easier for you to have multiple mice,  keyboards and monitors on the tables around you too :wink:

 :lol:  :lol: How did you know I have my PC and laptop set up side by side??
Hope you get over that summer cold quick.  Get some of those zinc lozenges they help.  Also, I find the zycam zinc nose spray really helps shorten the durration of the cold.

Will get some Zycam today... have used it before  thanks for reminding me  :?

Need make the effort to get some stuff done  no matter what..

SeeYaaaaByeeeeeeeeeee

My Granddaughter has a baby mouse. But, you still have to move the mouseball. My SIL is a techno person and he reads about new stuff all the time. Like ( it's in development ) the laser keyboard. It's about the size of a pen with a flat bottom. You stand it up on your desk and turn it on and the keyboard is projected on to the desk or surface. WOW.
The new tech stuff I just read about that is available from Kodak ( $ 150.00 ) is a frame where you put your camera memory card ? or a USB mem card and you can do a slideshow or just leave it on the one pix.  I guess it's like a mini PC screen.

Anyone other than me think the body of the woman needs to be DNA tested by someone other than Aruba?

Jossy is going to be on with Beth and Dave....You got mail Klaas

I saw that demonstrated on TV, yes big WOW.  

Regarding your grandaughters mouse and the mouseball.  Mine is optical so there is no ball.  I would never use anything but an optical.  I had a cordless optical but I went through batteries too fast  :lol:

Please allow me a moment to brag.  I have talked to some of y'all about my "adopted" son who I treat like my own child.  He just graduated from high school this year with my youngest daughter.  He has a full scholarship to college to play football and basketball!  But the new news is that he was invited to play in our states all star football game and it was last night.  He caught a pass and scored a 57 yard touchdown (longest and only one of two in the game) and was named offensive most valuable player.  He is beside himself with joy!  I am very proud of him.  He will be 2 and 1/2 hours away from me next year but I have promised to keep sending money and Skittles to him. (My desk drawer at school always had a stash of Skittles and gummy worms in it!)  Will also be attending college football games!  Thanks for letting me brag as I am very proud that he has used his abilities to better himself and not wind up on the streets like so many of his peers! :D

Klaas, how about the chair you use.  Is it comfortable.  Do you have good support?

((edit - I didn't want to post it in the forum because it's so graphic))

Notice she also has one of those bracelets on for drinking maybe?

Wow - you must be so proud of your adopted son!!  It's wonderful that he is so good in sports.  I believe that sports keeps alot of the kids out of trouble and teaches disapline.  Great news!

OK, off to do housework

I'll capture just the wrist and enlarge it.  Sorry, but I didn't want the entire photo posted because it's so graphic.

We have optical ones at work. New Dell flatscreen set ups for all !
There are 400 + so they must have go a bulk order discount !
I just know they have the stuff I want somewhere. I bought a roll up waterproof keyboard in the US at some techie store b/c it was neat. But wound up by giving it to SIL for the kiddie. She can now spill all she wants. And her gooey fingered friends aren't going to gum up her keyboard.

casa~ Congrats on your "adopted" son!

Hotshot~ Very good catch on that "bracelet". Hmmmm. Wonder how she accomplished going to an establisment while drowning on her way to Aruba? The same way Natalee buried hersel (twice)?

Glad I saved that pic before ya (rightfully) edited it, Klaas!

How old is that corpse?  Weeks?  Was it just in a pile of trash?  How do things like this go unnoticed on such a small island?

That really was sort of graphic!  You are right Klaasend I think sports has probably saved many kids from going down the wrong road.  It's a shame that we can't keep them all on the straight and narrow.  I think he really has the potential to play beyond college.  He is such an athlete!  He even ran track and is fast.  He was recruited by several colleges.  I just told him to remember me when he was rich and famous!  haha

Only on Aruba do these things happen, eh ?
Aruba is in the anti logic universe. No other explanation. :lol:  :lol:

I can't find a chair I'm comfortable in and I don't want to spend $300 on one either.  The one I'm using is OK but short people always have a problem.  :lol:

Arm with bracelet:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/corpsearmbracelet062306.jpg)

Yes, why is it in a pile of garbage? If we are to believe that she washed up on shore, then are the beaches that littered? Or does Aruba just throw corpses in with refuse? Bodies seem to show up in the oddest places there.

That red "bracelet"~ is it actually one or where her flesh was cut into by something with which she was bound?

The blackened areas on her back would seem to indicate that soon after death, she was in a prone position long enough for her blood to pool there.

Easy - from the source-  the new witness DID find a condom on the spot.  It is a rumor about him being involved in the disposal.  The story of the Columbian child being found prior to Natalee is an "unconfirmed report so far."

I can't make much out of the wrist area.  There is so much discoloration.  Does she have clothes on?

No clothes on.

People are still researching the events at the rock scene and more answers should be forthcoming next week.

Sort of looks like we have another mystery in Aruba, doesn't it?

Or semi-sitting, rather. How odd.

Suggestion - get one of those rubbermaid steps to prop your feet on.  If that is too much, you can use an old coke crate, or one of those stackable step exercise blocks.  It really helps short people avoid some back strain.

The sharks must have eaten her clothing. Either that, or she was a nudist.

The red area appears sunken. Bracelet with flesh swelled around it or ligature mark?

Anyone got a feel about her age?

I got what you're saying.  I just ordered a new chair for myself and I'm waiting for it to come.  I hate the chair I'm using right now because it is incomfortable and I need all the support I can get.  I'm 5.8 I don't have your problem :D

Not sure, Easy. I did note that the muscles her upper arm are well defined. Whether that is from "shrinkage" of the surrounding tissue or someone who was fit, I can't tell. I am not a pathologist nor do I play one on TV. I also did not spend the night in a Holiday Inn Express.

Drowning would not do that, would it ?
The no clothes ? I only looked briefly, but that body is in pretty good shape. Wouldn't clothes or remnants of be there if she went in the water with clothes on / even underwear ?
Glad that Easy is on the job in regards to the vids.

Hotshot: Yes...great catch!

Justin's: Good question!

Casa: That's wonderful!

Hi, Ono! How ya be?

God only knows ~ That place is weird.

Klaas - I had soooooo much trouble finding a comfortable place to sit and type. Since I use a laptop, I got a little "desk" meant for people to use in bed. Now I just lie on the bed with my feet stretched out and type away.

That's why I always have to sign off SM whenever hubby is ready to go to sleep. :lol:

Morning monkeys.  That's a strange pic of a corpse.  There are even white lines above and below that "bracelet" mark.  This looks more like ligature marks to me.  The discoloration on back and buttocks looks like she laid on her back during and after death.  Can anyone discern the round object to her immediate right about the stomach area?  What is that?  There is a little green bottle standing on the rock next to her, like a little travel shampoo sized bottle.  Very odd.

 :D Hey Ono! Just fine thank you! How's everything with you today?

Oops! I meant "Hey Justin's!" HAHAHAHA!

BT, you and I share the same problem.  People don't understand how uncomfortable it is for your feet to never touch the ground while sitting, LOLOLOL.   What I've done that has helped, is put a footstool in front of my chair to rest my feet on so my legs aren't just dangling  :lol:

I blew up the pic and clarified it some.  It looks like she is lying amongst rocks and timbers, like raft logs.  Her hand is outstretched on the timber or log to the top center of the pic.  There are clothes around her--looks like a pair of blue jeans or denim near her leg and fabric to the right of her arm.  It does look as if it might be a "shipwreck" type of scene where someone on a boat or raft washed ashore and the pieces of the raft and their belongings are scattered about.

I'm also very short and have trouble with sitting at the computer on a standard office chair.  I purchased a little stool at a garage sale that I was told was a "nursing" stool.  It's wooden and the top has ridges across it.  The stool is a few inches lower in front than in back.  I put my feet on it and it is just perfect!

Best site for online games IMO is Pogo.
http://tinyurl.com/k7ylw

Unoh, ya'll don't probably don't want to know, I do all my computer work from a recliner with laptop using a usb trackball.

I've been computing most all my waking hours for 15 yrs or more and dearly love my trackball.

Oh, yeah, also gone thru a couple of recliners as well.

Looks like I gotta update the profile to get BBCode to work eh?

The profiles don't seem to be adding anyone's avatar, so you might save your time and wait on Tom to get this back up to speed.

BT girl - I was watching Rebecca's Garden today and she was talking about how some types of bats eat scorpions. She suggested that people make wooden bat houses, and put them up at least 15 ft from the ground and facing in a S to SW direction.    :shock:  :D

I actually play at Hardwood Spades.  I grew tired of Pogo a long time ago.  

http://www.hardwoodspades.com/

AZLady - That's correct.  Avatars are not working right now for anyone.  Tom is working on getting that part fixed.

Thanks for letting me know that. I had no idea that bats ate scorpions!

Me too!  I play there and read here at the same time... Do you go by Leslie on Pogo?  I'm Frijole7.

I just tried to register at this site and someone to my screen name :shock:   The nerve on some people :(

Maybe you could use #1San.....

Just jumping in to say hello and a big Thank You for all the behind-the-scenes work to get SM rolling.

O/T..SunFreak2 - did you know that Rebecca is a metrologist - she used to be the local weather forecaster....

meteorologist....  LOL...Altmetroguy is our resident metrologist  :lol:

Sleuth - what kind of video software do you have and is it only for mac?  TIA

this is no sandbag see pic ture in the middle highlighted that way you can see the head of a woman with blond hair she is laying on her left cheek that is her right side of the face is up to view and you can see the outline of her eyes nose mouth and chin far right.  far left you see long blond hair some tucked behind her ear.  if you look to the center of the head you see the outline of her vertebre prolly cervical 1 thru 5.  her chest is cut with a very sharp object as the lines are clean. It appears to have been cut to just below the outline of breasts.  I do not see any other boney prominences such as the shoulder blades on eaither side or the ribs eaither which should be below the breast area.  I also do not see the clavicle area which should attatch to the shoulder bones at the ends and also to inner ribs and meeting the vertebre in the center.  This cutting up was very skillfully done.  make no mistake it is a woman , blond with lond shoulder legnth hair. I remember giving a description of this almost 10 months ago.  Its in the archives.   also in arub bay film 24 while panning around the edge of the water 2 shoes are seen they appear to be white sneakers awith dark soles. the sneaker is on its side. this was also discussed. Red asked me to email it to family with the diecription but i sent it to him or mrs Red to foward incase it was too shocking for the family.

brown leather flip flops

Beth has said brown leather flip flops

Klaasend - I have VideoMaster, etc. but find myself usually using:
1)  GigaPocket software...I think it is called PictureGear
2)  ACD FotoCanvas

No I didn't.  I like her show. Better than Marfa's.  :lol:

Thanks, I'll check those out. :wink:

sandy leiva - The sandbag is in the spillover area that this white plastic is in, but it is in the corner and NOT in the three-some photo set that I originally created that is posted above.  

I took the original Aru-Bay film and captured the white plastic area, then turned it (per a monkey request, don't remember who now), and then applied a 'negative' filter (center pic of the three-some) and then applied a 'sephia' filter (right pic of the three-some)

Sleuth - do you see a body in that white plastic bag?

Hi Justinsmom..YES. By all means go to your doctor and get this checked now...NOW..for ulnar nerve inflamation. I am still recovering from surgery for this and its been over a year and a half. I have a permanently numb pinky and next finger..my muscle is gone between the thumb and the pointer finger  AND the musle has atrophied just below the elbow.
Do NOT fool around with this. The numbness is the FIRST sign.

Sandy - I'm not sure where you are seeing the face.  Could you draw, point or circle the head please?  Thanks.

I see what sandy leiva sees.

I dont...


Gotta run...

Here's my problem with a body in that plastic bag.  If you watch the video you can tell that the plastic is very light, it blows in the wind.  It's seems like it could be the weight of dry cleaners plastic.  Also, if you notice, people think they are seeing a face or head in many different locations.  The concrete area is very small, maybe 3' x 3'.  I'm not seeing a body although from enhancements I can see several different areas that almost look like a head or face.  I think it's an illusion.

diario article writes its lamentable and sad to have to report what has occurred. Usually these things have been known to apppen in los angeles or in cancun but never here in aruba!
to report that false police are going around gives aruba a very bad name in light of the tragic circumstances that has already occurred with the natalie case.
A man speaking spanish and dressed in police blues stopped in front of a american tourist enjoying the brreze on the beach and told her she owed 500 for a fine.  It does not say what the fine was for .  In a Nutshell when the tourist said she was not aware of commitiing anything she could be fined for as she had just arrived not only was she unaware of what crime was committed to incur that fine.
the blue uniformed polis then spoke with someone on his cell phone, she believed him to be asking something about the fines to whomever he was tlking to.  He then said to her ok if you preform a sexual act in front of me we can then forget the fine ,but you must do this.  the tourist ran to the hotel desk and asked for help in reporting what occured.  while the desk person took down identification of guests and locals the woman also called the consulate to report the icident.  
This put our polis and tourism in  poor light and can only be useful in hamperin tourism.  
Not a word to word translation but pretty much it in a nutshell.

Sandy - WOW, thanks!

Last night when I looked at the pictures I couldn't see the face even though it was labeled.

Today I was looking and in the first picture the eyes are staring back.

But then if I look again I can almost see the face way on the right so I'm totally confused.

I'm not making out the arm or hand.

God bless Natalee, Beth, Dave, Robin and the family.  This must really be awful for them!

What I see is a perfectly circular object where many say they see a fact.  Further, the circular object appears to be flat like the lid to a paint can.  Then behind it where some see a head, I see the paint can, slightly tilted to the right.  Otherwise, the head would have to be almost square.

I'd say the spillway is even smaller inside that 3' square, more like two ft square and this is too small an area for human remains to fit.  Also the remains would be very heavy and not float up and over the edge.  It would have to be deliberately placed there beside a busy road for all to see??  I do see the one weight in the corner, however.  Whatever is in this plastic must not be very heavy at all if it remains afloat.

.

not red bracelet but maybe something she was bound with cut into her wrists.  bosy in advance stages of decomposition and she is missing thumb digit in tht hand.  when did these people claim they can with the 8 others and thinks it was one who came with them.  Bull  another lie by aruba   amazing how all these decomposed bodys was up on the shores and are just hanging around for someone to find while beachcombing.  Like the suppposed bosy of the boy which has been atop the rocks in plain view of the public on a beach frequented by tourist and locals and especially with the new ligths and signs that went up -- no one saw these bodies previously.  How stupid does aruba think the world is.........

Edit to say face where I typed fact, sorry.

Where some see a face, I see a round flat object, perfect circle as seldom seen in nature.

For the longest time I couldn't see anything in the plastic but when you look at those enhancements you know there is something in there but I just didn't think it was a body.  I used to think there was a fish that someone caught wrapped in the plastic.  I know call me nuts.

Klaas~ That is so possible that it is an illusion. I very clearly "see" (interpret) a face the same as sandy leiva wrote.

Facing your (devoted reader's) screen:

                                         

                         

<-- This is LEFT                                           This is RIGHT -->

no clothing discolored purple black areas of blood pooled under skin apperar on her posterior upper torso, shoulderblade buttucks and thigh.

Almost finished packing my shoes. Anyone wanna help with more packing? Plenty of boxes to go around!

How many pairs of shoes do you have?? :shock:  It would take me about 30 seconds to pack mine, LOLOL  :lol:

Let me know when you get to the last box and then I'll help :lol:

 


how do i do that. explain and i will try

.
I guess Aruba is One Happy Island alright, unless, of course, you end up as one of the MANY dead!  This just seems like far far too many corpses all over the place.  Just since Natalee disappeared it would seem there must have been well over a dozen unexplained deaths.  Well, unexplained unless you believe everybody commits suicide.

I would still like to know about two security gurads who supposedly jumped off high rise hotels last year, too, we didn't know at the time to consider how abnormal all this actually is.  What is the suicide rate on such a happy paradise and why is it so strangely high??

 :?

.
First it was 97 degrees then lightening and a few drops of water fell so the temperature dropped but now it is 96% humidity.  I feel like a fish and can't breathe!  Help!  Maybe a nap will help.. . . . . . .  8)

Hope you feel better, Anna!

Hi Justins,

I'm happy to see you.  

I associate the numbness in your right pinky with the beginning of carpal tunnel or arthritis. I never actually was diagnosed with carpal tunnel but I do have arthritis in my hands. It got really bad in 2001 when I stayed at my daughter's house for three months taking care of her while she took care of the baby. I grocery shopped, I cleaned, I cooked, fed the dogs, held the baby while my ate. My fingers began to get numb and I would drop things. I was already taking Celebrex so I went back to my Rheumatologist and he said I should wear those Velcro hand/wrist things when I sleep. It seemed to help and I haven't had numb fingers again.

Be careful that you don't overdo taking the ibuprofen, tylenol or advil. They can eat up your stomach.

I think it would be a good idea if you went to a doctor. Try to find an Internist who specializes in Rheumatology. An Internist specializing in Cardiology (or other specialties) will not have a clue.

Good luck and keep me posted.

Love, Louise

If one looks at the original full picture, the red around the right wrist looks more like a bracelet.  This body looks like it is at least  48- 72 hours dead.  Rigor mortis has come and gone, and this usually takes place within the first 72 hours.  That this phase has passed is  evident in the flaccidity and wasting of the muscles.  Bodies decompose fairly rapidly in higher temperatures, and one would expect more decomposition & putrefaction (appears as melting) if she was exposed to the elements and the heat of Aruba.  She has lividity on her lower back and left shoulder meaning these are the areas she lay on in death and is where the blood pooled (settled). I don't think her thumb is missing, but is turned down and/or folded under and hidden from view.

Sorry about the graphic description.

Sandy, thanks for Diario trans.

Fake Polis? Imagine that. The perp need not worry, IMO. Since Dompig is still employed, impersonating an officer of the law is clearly not a crime.

Hi Again Justins,

Are you a shoe freak like I am? How many pairs do you have?

I have at least 100 pairs of shoes. They are all in boxes on the top shelf in my closet and they are labeled on the outside and arranged by color and type.

I cannot imagine how long it would take me to pack up the shoes. I'd probably get overwhelmed and cry or need a drink!  

When I was a young mother, we were poor. I had one pair of shoes because my daughter was growing and needed bigger sizes all the time.

I think that's what contributed to my wanting to have shoes that specifically matched every outfit when I started to work in the corporate world.  

What can I say?  I love clothes and shoes, not to mention purses.

Love, Louise

Sandy - yes, email me with your descriptions and I'll try to mark the photo.  You are talking about the center one right?

Sandy - do you a photo editor or graphics program on your computer?  You would have to right c-lick the photo and copy it into your program.  Then mark it wher you see the face.  Then upload it to a photo storage site and place the link for the edited photo in your reply.  Thanks.

Can someone let me know what a "spillway" is? What is their purpose? And how do we know the spillway in the pic is 3 feet square and 2 feet square inside? And how does the spillway significantly fit into this case?

Thank you in advance.

Um, I don't know, really... :oops:

San~ So you'll be just in time to load!

Louise~ Good to see you, too, friend! I see my primary care physician next month. I'll talk with her about it, and see what she wants to do if it is still giving me fits.

Ah, Louise, that is similar to how my shoe buying began. Grew up with not much $ to spread around five children. Once I was out of grad school, the spree began! Luckily, I am not quite as into purses!

Hi Mama Louise!  I never knew you were a shoe addict!  Ha Ha!
 :lol:  :lol:   :lol:

I prolly have about a dozen pairs of shoes, but only wear about 3 pair.  I gave up on high heels long ago as they are just torture devices.  However, I used to wear the sexy spike heels back when, but, now I sacrifice fashion for comfort.    :D

Anna,

How did you find out that two security guards jumped off the high rise hotels last year?  What was said about it and were there any reasons for them to do so? I'm suspicious. Do you think/know if they were in some kind of trouble and were pushed or forced to jump?

As far as I'm concerned, there are much easier and less dramatic ways to commit suicide. Jumping off a building is drastic (remember people jumping out of the Twin Towers on September 11) as opposed to overdosing on drugs, since drugs abound on Aruba. Also, how about a gun? 1-2-3 and it's over.

Please let me know what information you might have about this.

Thank you very much.

Louise

Justins :lol:   I'm having my own problem now.  I put a load of wash in the dryer and put another one on and everthing stopped.  I went to hit the button on the plug and heard a buzzing sound :shock: .  Do you know any electricians :cry:

San~ I do know an electrician but we are not on speaking terms. Bring your laundry. My units are working!

Best site for online games IMO is Pogo.
http://tinyurl.com/k7ylw[/quote]
Me too!  I play there and read here at the same time... Do you go by Leslie on Pogo?  I'm Frijole7.[/quote]
No, that was taken!  I am Coldincanada6 and I play bridge. I usually play while I am reading here also. lol

"sandy leiva"  is this what you see?  The person is laying on the left side facing right.  hair crumbled up by the face.

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/gummy_2006/bodyonside.jpg)

spillway

n : a channel that carries excess water over or around a dam or other obstruction [syn: spill, wasteweir]


Spillway
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Spillway of Llyn Brianne dam in Wales
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Spillway of Llyn Brianne dam in Wales

A Spillway is a structure used to provide for the controlled release of flood flows from a dam or levee into a downstream area, typically being the river that has been dammed. Floods are released by spillways so that the water does not overtop and damage, or even destroy, the dam by overflowing the structure. Except during flood periods, water does not normally flow over a spillway. In contrast, an "intake" is a structure used to release water on a regular basis for water supply, hydropower production, etc. Floodgates may be designed into spillways to regulate water flow and dam height.

A spillway is located at the top of the reservoir pool. Dams may also have bottom outlets with valves or gates which may be operated to release flood flow, and a few dams rely entirely on bottom outlets and lack an overflow spillway.

There are two types of spillways: uncontrolled and controlled.

Uncontrolled spillways do not have gates; when the water rises above the lip or "crest" of the spillway it begins to be released from the reservoir. The rate of discharge is controlled only by the depth of water within the reservoir. All of the storage volume in the reservoir above the spillway crest can be used only for the temporary storage of floodwater, and cannot be used as water supply storage because it is normally empty.

A controlled spillway has mechanical structures or "gates" to regulate the rate of flow. This design allows nearly the full height of the dam to be used for water storage year-around, and flood waters can be released as required by opening one or more gates.

Some spillways are designed like an inverted bell-mouth so that water can enter all around the perimeter (also termed a "morning-glory" design). In areas where the surface of the reservoir may freeze, bell-mouth spillways are normally fitted with some arrangements for breaking the ice to prevent the spillway from becoming ice-bound.

The "spillway" if thats what you call it does not have water in it, unless there is an abundance of water.  so the ag is not floating, it is laying on cement....The wind in the video is blowing it but not moving it, just the edges are blowing around.  IMO

That's what I see, Hotshot.

youve got mail;  hope it worked

Right, the edges of the plastic bag are moving.  Do you think it's possible for a body to be in that bag?

Go look at the bottom of page 29 please!  I posted it.

yes yes yes i emailed klass with it too but your pic is neater than mine

If moving air were to get inside the bag, then there is a greater chance that we are seeing an illusion instead of what we think we see.

Sandy - it didn't work.  I don't need the photo, I have that.  What I need is your description of where you see the body/face etc.

Did you see the picture Hotshot posted on the previous page?

yes hers says what i saw except i added a circle around the neck vetebre in the center of pic below the head

 


be back soon dont want to miss the news at 9

I'm going to.

Okay, I'm a bit puzzled! I DO see the "face" in the pic posted here in the discussion forum. BUT; I also see what appears to be a body in the "fetal position" in the same photos on the front page posts. The pics do not correspond! That makes me tend to think that neither are what they appear to be and are kind of like an "ink blot" where different people see different things.

That's what I think.  I also don't think the bag is large enough to hold a body.

Me too!  And, I hope we learn something new!

The concrete structure everyone is talking about is not a spillway.  It appears to be a drainage inlet that collects run-off from storms, etc. and funnels it into the ponds.  The size of these pre-cast inlets are very predictable and dependant upon engineered specifications.

Me too!!!

Good evening monkeys.  I finally got in again.  Has anyone seen CP405 yet? She's been having log in problems.  Hope everyone is okay tonight.
(http://bestsmileys.com/waving/6.gif)

Just another observation.......
Do you all remember when they first tried to "drain the pond"? They brought in huge pumps (from Valero, if I recall). They put the drain hose directly into a "spillway" VERY similar to the one in the pic. This "spillway" supposedly drained directly back to the sea.  Could we be talking about the same one??

But its not a whole body

I agree.  Even if it was large enough - the bag isn't sturdy enough to hold the weight.  IMHO

Oh goodness!  I see we are talking body in bag video again.  I can't make anything out of that picture.  Do some of you think this is the body of the young boy they said was buried in the dunes?

I see what sandy describes...only in the middle picture.  Reminds me of a statue of the madonna with child...the face is pretty clear.  This is the first time I've seen anything in the pictures.

What does everyone make of this body that was just found in Aruba?  Does the location fit with a boat, or raft drifting toward the island?

I see the two faces too.  Who knows maybe they are someone's collection.  Nothing would surprise me.

It's real clear, and as far as weight goes, if she was 110 lbs, that would only be maybe 30 lbs at the most.  garbage bags do hold that kind of weight, and its sitting on cement so whats to hold?  I don't know what to think now, that pic is pretty scary if you ask me.  The face does resemble that of our missing girl too.

What is the location EASY?  That I didnt get to see.

Jossy

Witness said it was Joran.

Currently, at 6:02 pm, Jossy is on Fox with Kimberly talking about the witness who saw the man (who took his clothes off) who took a woman out to sea and came back.

Mark Lunsford must have a lot of self-control!  I would have had to

The Witness: Spoke with his wife, and then went to a place where they used to go... was the 7 year old's body their child?

Like a cameo.

Beth

Has sat on this witness info for 2 months. KJ should act.

KJ told JQK she is inclined to believe the witness.

Dave

Art Wood did not believe witness. Maybe a language problem.

Witness wanted reward.

Pipe or piece of metal used to weigh body was recovered.

Evidence?  A piece of pipe or metal to weigh the body down?  First I have heard this in detail.  JQK only said a weight of some kind. HMMMMM!

Wonder if it's a tire jack?

I'm sure I have the spelling wrong, but it was in the Ariwok(?) area I believe.

Dave wasn't very optimistic ---- but could anyone remotely blame him????

The Boca Bolunfa area of Arikok National Park.

That was kind of short and sweet!

Pipe, metal....  Car jack?

Jon Bon Ramsies mother died......Looks like what goes around comes around.  Sorry, I guess I was one of those people that believed she knew.

That's what I thought too.

I think the plastic looks more like the tarps they were painting with than a real bag.

If it is Ariwok, or Arikok they are both on the bad side of the island, near natural bridge.  Boats dont go out there, it's too rough, and columbia is totally across the Island to the south/west.  So it's kind of hard to believe she washed up there then.  Just another thing to think about.

I can see the face now, but Natalee wire her hair parted on her right side.  No disrespect to the family or to her, but she would have had to  be disarticulated or decapitated to fit in that small space if it is only 3x3'.

The interesting thing about what Jossy said was that the witness claims that he heard a woman scream and then nothing.  Then the person went to the trunk of his car and got something out to wrap the body in.  I had not heard that described in that way before.  Maybe she was unconscious and Joran planned to leave her after he raped her and she woke up.  That is when he decided to hit her to make her shut up and he may have broken her neck or even hit her on the head with what he weighed her down with.   Joran has been identified and there are no Kalpoes in this scenario to take the blame.

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/MapEvidence6.jpg)

I just recieved an Amber Alert for a 6 yr old Kaitlyn Hamrick White/F brn/grn 4ft 70lb.
Suspect 32 Yr old Chevett Hager White/M 5'5 135 lbs.

For all you Columbus Buckeyes out there!  Keep your eyes out!

And there you got it straight from Jossy's mouth.  The other piece of evidence is a piece of Natalees clothing that her mom should be able to identify.  Has Beth seen it yet?   NO!!!!!!

valentin once wrote on another blog that natalees head would be found when it rolls in with the wave.  many peop;e thought at the time he was being gross or a sick joke but when someone states something like that i tale it seriously,

sandy....valentine....are you saying jorans little brother wrote this????

sandy

I remember that too...

I have a question about the Aru-Bay videos (Klaas is thinking, "Not again") concerning what Jossy said they were.  Did we ever get a definitive answer as to what Jossy thinks about them?

Sorry about that O/T, I just get a little upset when I get those alerts.  They come on my cell phone.

Anyways,  I am having a hard time seeing anything in those pictures too. I've stared, turned my head and just can't see a face or body....  Sandy do you have any forensics background?  I'm impressed with your knowledge of what you are seeing, so just wondering.

That is what stood out more than anything with me.

1.  How hard would it be to check with her?
2.  Heck, how hard would it be to check it against the 9 billion copies of her outfit that are on the internet?  (assuming it's skirt or top)
3.  Why isn't the Sporter behinds bars as we speak?

These are rhetorical questions my friends.   Makes me so mad.

yes way back in june of last year he wrote that in another blog.  we discussed it here - on our arhives here whenever we get those records recovered.  I almost forgot about that till the picture of the torso was put up again.  Unfortunatly so much time has passed and with it all those details and things discussed early on.

Sadly, I tended to believe she knew who did it and protected him. Was the son's DNA ever tested?

which blog?  100% sure it was him...or someone claiming to be him???

No, Jossy is still investigating them.  What he has told us is what his people have been told but it's highly suspicious.

That's what I was thinking.  The location doesn't sound right for an accidental death while trying to make it to the island.  Isn't the same area where Pitbull was found?

I believe it was a comment on Valentijns Myspace site if I'm not mistaken.

Yuppers!

I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around the spillway. How many spillways are there in Aruba?

Are they out in the open where anyone can see them or are they in secret/non visible areas?

And no one replied to my question on how we know they are 3 ft. square and 2 ft. square on the inside.

What would be the purpose of putting a body in a spillway, especially if the spillway is out in the open?

So how many spillways are in Aruba and are they hidden or out in the open?

way to go Jossy  tell it like it is....... why hasnt Beth seen what she could easily describe as belonging to Natalee..   because the ale doesnt want this solved if it involves joran.  Papa sloot calling in favors...
what really gets to me is what does he have on everyone that they protect him so....

Yes, the same general vicinity that Pitbull was found.  That side of the island and in Arikok National Park.

Does anyone remember how dark it was that night on the beach?  Was there any moonlight?  I want to know how far away that witness actually was.  I think it would be difficult to identify Joran as the person unless the witness was very close to him.  There are several people that have been mentioned that could easily look like Joran on a beach in the early morning hours.  ( Geez!  Now I sound like I am on Joran's side.)  :roll:

thanks klaas and sandy....does anybody have his myspace account saved...where that comment shows up?

Correct me if I am wrong (anyone), but I believe that Hotshot saw such (if not THE) a spillway in Aruba.



I do not know whether this is possible, but perhaps it washed up into it with flooding?

Headlights on the car were on?

Again, how close was this witness?  Just trying to think through this as being someone else that may have been paid to dispose of the body that resembled Joran.

This got rushed right before "The Line-Up" came on. Any thoughts???

Well, if it was too dark to describe the car....then it would be too dark to see if anyone else was in the car.

Buckeye,
That is what I am trying to say.  How can the witness see Joran well enough to identify him and yet can't tell you anything about the car.  Yet the witness saw him remove something from the car to wrap her body in.

My engineering background is really having a problem with this constant reference to a spillway.  A concrete box is not a spillway!  It is an inlet and it will collect anything that is carried by water.

its on my burned out hard drive which i have saved anyone know how to make miracles happen?  am willling to donate hardware if u can  it has most of all early natalee archives in it

And no, Lala's, asking that does not make you seem like a Joran supporter. Only someone seeking the truth.

Not sure, I don't think so but it's possible:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/nhinvest1.jpg)

Thank you!  This is a drainage ditch.

That is a winged-wall inlet.  A spillway would allow water to cross over the surface.

Thank you, Justins, for trying to answer my nagging questions.

Hotshot, if you saw such (if not THE) spillway in Aruba, is that the only spillway in Aruba? Hotshot, did you personally take the pics we are now looking at online?

Are spillways hidden or out in the open?

Sorry for nagging but no one is saying how many spillways Aruba has and if they are hidden or out in the open.  

Once I can get my questions answered, then I can contemplate further on the bag in the spillway.

In my year here at Scared Monkeys, I have never before nagged you to death about any issue.

I live near a big dam, the William Mulholland / Hollywood Reservoir dam. It is huge. But I'm a moron when it comes to spillways.

Somebody please help me.

Yes!!  Only he made it at least into a cave.

Anyone else find it weird that Dave said he doesn't even know if the condom has been turned in?

Wonder if he meant:

to ALE
to Holland

???

We've heard that an item is being tested in Holland ... could it be:

pipe,
clothing
condom

or .... maybe they just put it in the file drawer.   :lol:

Thanks for all the hard work getting the forum back up.  Have a question, perhaps Easywriter can address.

Last month, JQK said on Greta that KJ said she was NOT leaving next month, and would be there into next year.  Jossy said in the DP interview that KJ was "still leaving next month" and they had not talked to the man who was replacing her.  

Is this KJ's annual 2 week vacation to Holland? Or is she leaving for good? Did she lie to JQK?  Or to Jossy?   Why?

Thanks.

I'll help you out Easy - it is a DRAINAGE INLET, not a spillway:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/drainageinlet.jpg)

The one we saw when they drained the pond was huge compared to the one the bag is in though.

May 30 - The ARUBA sky is partly cloudy. Temperature is 84.2 degrees. Dew point is 77 degrees. Humidity is 79%. Wind is out of the east at 13.8 mph. Ground visibility is perfectly clear at 7 miles to horizon.  

Virtual Reality Phase of the Moon
 2005 May  30, 0 hrs   ET
(http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/gif/moons/m266.gif)

Great question!

I sat there wondering why the hxxx Greta didn't do a follow up question on that.

Louise, this particular Drainage Inlet is out in the open.  Take a look at the satellite photo I've posted:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=3