Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

You all know the rules


(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/InHonorofNatalee.jpg)

First?

You mean you no like my cooking receipts, San? :lol:

Second :lol:

Yeeeeah, my first time for being first....  I'm heading to lunch now.... see ya'll in a while.

I loved your neatly typed cooking recipes. :wink:

You cheated you said you we leaving :lol:

My former housekeeper was Spanish speaking.  Back when I cooked a lot, she would tell me, "Mssush, I like you cooking reciepts."  

I always made an abundance over the weekends, so she would have leftovers that I froze to take home with her.  I am not sure if she liked them or she just liked the leisure of warming them up.

Both.

Cheater, cheater, booger eater.

SAN - I'm hoping AM Digital has an article about the witness today  :wink:

Oh, yeah.  We can read them.   :lol:   We depend on Sandy and Whytegirl a whole bunch. :oops:

 :shock:

AM Digital is in english.  It comes as a PDF file but it can't be posted as a link in the forum because it's membership only.  If there's an article, I'll snag and post it.

Last time the cleaning lady came I had to go to therapy and when I cam back she was in a panic because she blew a fuse near where my nephew has his fish tank hooked up and she though she was going to kill the fish :lol: .  Then when she turned the vacuum on I forgot to tell her my dogs attack the vacuum :lol:

.

Mrs Red,
You may have to order the cookbooks in multiples like ten at a time but seems like there are that many needed.

My sister was entitled to take mine and gave the following explanations:

She entertains and I don't
She hosts family dinners sometimes and I don't
She belongs to a supper club and I don't
I only reared boys and so am only a "meat and potatoes" kind of cook and she enjoys trying new things.

So you see, she had every right to it and I don't.   :roll: What are sisters for?

Haven't received anything yet.

She sounds like my sister.  I ordered a new pair of sandles and somehow she walked out with them :shock:   She said I don't wear sandles like her because I'm always in sneakers and she hates sneakers.  How's that for reasoning :lol:

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Perhaps I am fortunate that my sisters live far away, travel a great deal but I do remember my sister (the one who modeled and has it all) thinking a blue blouse with spaghetti straps I had, looked much better on her since she is so "naturally tan", than it did on me with my pale skin, how it made me look "washed out," so she felt obligated to take it, so I would feel better about my pasty color.

 :lol:  :lol:

Excellent translation of article, but what about so called evidence the so called witness (now labeled as liar) gave.....and I am not talking about the so called used condomn, gag me, that is gross....lol

OK, I am going outside and sit in the shade, read some, enjoy the scenery, watch the birds from the corner of my eye and absorb the moment in time.  It's historical in my life that I come here to meet with loving, giving and caring people, but it is also historical in my life that I savor each moment in the garden that I can.  I can sit in the shade and not have to worry about my husband's lectures about getting too hot, I can watch the birds drink and bathe at the fountain, think of how the land where I lived was once inhabited by plantation owners and the African-Americans who picked cotton here and ponder what their thoughts were on a day like today and what would they have been doing.  Were they singing spiritual songs with a low country flavor or were they awaiting the time off to be with their families and think 200 years from now, if any of my roses will still be here and if so, will those who come here, wonder what the owner of this land must have been doing at this same time of day, long ago when computers were new and consumed a whole corner of the room in order to accommodate monitors, speakers, printers, hard drives, and a big desk to hide the bazilion cords attached thereto.  Will they ponder why air filght was so crude or will they be back in the place where African-Americans once were, tilling the soil.  Will time take us back to place we once were.

Great post, TG.

Makes me think of my favorite hymn.  "In the Garden".

Of course, that song always makes me boohoo so I'm going to go commute and boohoo in my car as I hear that song in my head and think of the dew still on the roses.

My Grandmas fav too my best friend (an Opera Singer) sang it at her funeral service not a dry eye in the place! :cry:

I ate too much lunch and now I just want to hide under my desk until quiting time!

Sure Happy It's Thursday!

My old admin who worked a four day week used to say that all the time!

Well, I will be working tomorrow and I will be working Monday.  The 4th fell on a rotten day this year!  That will make it like two Mondays next week....  :cry:

Ah, cheer up!  Dogs and cattle want to be fed EVERY day!  But I am thankful that I am not a dairy farmer.  They have to get up at four a.m. so things can always be worse.  Could be better but sure could be worse.

 :D

.  That Tyler is sitting outside pretending it's not 100 degrees!  :roll: Hope she took a cold beverage.

Off to work again and giving thanks for inventions such as air conditioning!
I can't imagine this particular summer without it.  Or don't want to imagine that!

Is everyone leaving now?  I wanted to talk about something that's been bothering me for a week, ever since I heard Jossy on the internet radio show.  Jossy said that the ALE KNOW Natalee was at Joran's apartment.  They KNOW this.  I wonder how they know it.  What evidence do they have?  Has anyone heard?

that is a very good question!

Well, Mermaid, I guess we are full of questions with no answers, huh?

EASYWRITER:
When you talk to your friend in Aruba, could you ask how the police KNOW that Natalee was at Joran's apartment?  Would you ask if he knows what evidence they have and if he can tell us what it is?
Thanks

I guess I'll go sit in the garden, like Tyler.  See ya later, Monks.  It's nappy time.

I may eat boogers, but I SWEAR I DON'T cheat!  :lol:

Just a few thoughts that have crossed my mind since yesterday afternoon:

Yesterday as soon as I learned the Columbian witness had admitted he had not been telling the truth, I shared that information with the rest of you.  I was just as frustrated by this turn of events as anyone else and you can believe my source was as well.  The whole story just became another spoke in this never ending wheel Aruba inaptly named a legal system. The whole episode has probably turned out to be another complete waste of time and I am sure only caused that much more anguish for Natalee’s family.

Being fully aware of the impact this story has probably had on the whole investigation, I must ask if it would be better not to follow every possible lead.  Would it be better not to seek out information from those that know the island of Aruba very well, because of the risk that a story might not pan out?  Or, is it better to leave no stone unturned and avail one’s self to any credible source willing to share information?

I’m not sure anymore, because of the reaction to the news yesterday, both here and at other forums.  Maybe it would be best to just wait for Fox to create some “Breaking News” in this case, while I keep what I learn to myself.

Any comments?

AZ....I always felt that Anita's ability to describe N's underwear indicated that she had seen them...even though she was in Holland at the time of the disappearance....I think she was part of the "clean up" team....this is JMHO

We haven't discussed that at all, have we? and I did hear that...

Like I said yesterday, the last thing I want to do is question your source's veracity or well-intentions. What we don't know is the veracity and intentions of your "source's" source! I just don't trust ANY inside info coming from there anymore.
That said, I still want to hear EVERY rumor that is being floated or postulated from there.

as long as like your friend, they are credible.... I believe they are saying the witness lied... and I believe the witness may not be... make sense??

Easy....I don't know the answer....but, if we only looked at or discussed solid information, there would be little to discuss.  I don't think that the witness lying is particularly disappointing....we can cut him loose....we have all learned a lot about Aruba....your associate seems to be honest....let's keep going....Mere

Easy ~ I appreciate so very much when you share your information with us ~ be it discouraging, hopeful, whatever it is.....it's better than hearing nothing  :?

These days, I have come to rely on your info *for* any info .... probably makes no sense.  oh well.  Thanks.

FM, did you order that CD we talked about the other day?  
I got mine.  It's fabulous.  Both CDs.  "Schoolhouse Rock Medley" really does rock.

I hope SSD got hers but I haven't seen her here to ask.

PLUS -- we have not heard exactly what he was lying about.

There may be some truth -- JQK said the metal pipe was found.

I agree with Mrs Red -- if the source is reliable, it's better to know what is being said. But that's MO.

OMG........

Does it have I'm just a Bill?  Sittin here on capital hill????? :lol:

sharon, could you re-post that link to the forum about the NY lawyers  again please.  I was  too busy at work to read it and now I'm home so I can.  TY

YES!  
www.maxquartet.com
Part of the proceeds go to St. Jude's in Memphis.  I think SSD follows a child who is being treated there.

 :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

I was just kidding, Dihannah!

To me, anything that keeps people interrested in the case, even if it doesn't pan out is a good thing.  The reason is, it keeps it in the news.  As long as the case is in the news there is still hope, IMO.

Easy, I have to say I agree with the others.  We need to hear what is going on - whether it helps the case or not, whether it turns out something or not.  Who knows when the real break will come.  I have faith that it will.... I just hate the waiting....

Here you go , Peaches. This was a comment posted on Michelle's blog http://arubanboycott.blogspot.com/.


Anonymous said...
The New York City Bar Association don't support the Forum Non Conveniens. Here is the link, http://www.abcny.org/Publications/reports/index.php?type=subject
Tue May 16, 08:10:39 AM EDT

Not only that Klass, but the real main erason we visit boards like this is to have access to info not yet available to the general public.  There have been quite a few ocassions where news has been broken here first...far in advance of the MSM.  If we wanted to wait until a "Fox News Alert", we'd do so in front of a TV...not a computer screen.  Besides...hasn't the MSM been inaccurate with their reporting as well?  I think info otained and released in here is more authentic and accurate then what's reported out there...dig?

hi Bobo2, Jacqueline, Kimmy53, MeMere, mrs. red, San, sharon, thik, thirdstrike, wreck and everyone else..  Sorry sharon, I wasn't ignoring you, I'm trying to do a few things at the same time and I'm afraid that I will mess up and send my post to my boss and my email to you..  

Easy, you need to keep the communications open, we can deal with the rumors and stuff.. Its being in limbo and silence that will kill us, we can work around the other stuff..

Sharon, I was very happy to watch the Heat when and I wish I could of been at the game and felt the excitement in Miami.

Hey Terry!

Thirdstrike - exactly.  How many times have we watched MSM in amazement at their lack of knowledge in the case.

I just took a look at that “other” message board and some of those people actually think Beth Twitty spends her leisure time reading their posts.  Kind of reminds me of that public service announcement with the egg in a frying pan.  Whduhhellaredeezcrackheadson…

Hi Jacqueline!  I know I'm going to mess up soon and start sending out code to you guys and then you will know I'm crazy..

That's exactly the importance of an "underground" media source like this one!  If we lose that edge, we're nothing more then an extension of their  (the MSM) ignornaces...

http://tinyurl.com/e95a3

Dutch Cabinet to Resign Over Somali's Case

By TOBY STERLING
The Associated Press
Thursday, June 29, 2006; 2:58 PM

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands -- The Dutch prime minister said Thursday his government will resign after his coalition split over the citizenship case of a Somali-born lawmaker. Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende said he will tender his resignation to Queen Beatrix on Friday, signaling the collapse of three-year-old government and likely early elections.

I think we should forget about the "other" message boards (well, at least the "dirty" ones) from this point forward.  We represent the best of the best here.  They are simply jealous of that.  Ever notice that those sites are filled with our "banished ones"?  It rarely happens in reverse of that.  That says someting about the quality of content here.  We should ALL be proud of that fact...

Thanks, Sharon.  What letter of the alphabet do I have to go to in order to read the forum part?  

TY

Sometimes it is so off the wall that it is amusing and at other times it makes a person question the sanity of some of those people.  I wonder if their friends and co-workers realize what really lurks in the minds and hearts of the evil ones?  Wasn't that an old radio show? lol

"I don't know if this commercial has kept anyone away from drugs but it sure has put me off on eggs"              Funky Winderbean

I see letters....is it an S...I see, I see....an H.....anyone have an H in their name....., I see an I !!  .......... ;) oh, I get iT.....teehee.....and on a more serious note, I personally think this NY Judge is simply doling out MORE cruel and unusual punishment for a family who has endured way more than their share!! GET ON WITH IT! I am sure many feel there are more important matters on the doc 4 this judge, but come on.....it has been way too long....I am gonna pull a Nancy Grace on this and say this Judge should be held in CONTEMPT!!!!!! ACKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!

LOL!

  Sorry  Terry  too late we have already had a meeting about that sorry  didn't you get that memo ?
 Damm could have sworn I sent that to ya  HeHeHe  
 ::::::::::Giggeling here like crazy :::::::::
 can just imagine Terry  thinking who is this crazy Cowboy  and who does he think he is messen with ROFL  Now !!
  REACHING for a fresh depends !  Things are definatly out of control here today  LOL
  Darn,  Ol Jer  Looks into box and sees it is empty  no depends left  OH chit !  Uh OH  no ment No Pee, No Pee !!           :shock:

  your new friend Jerry from Ohio
  ( Who some say  was thrown on his head by the Bulls one too many times )

I haven't heard anything but think it might go back to the phone records.   :roll: And of course we do not have access to those.  Wonder if ALE even bothered to obtain and secure them or waited until they are gone like everything else.  

After Joran's 22nd version of events, eliminating the lighthouse, is this the only place the three still agree that they went that night?  There and the beach?

But you are right to wonder.  Do you suppose there was some forensic evidence found on something, even the gate outside so he had to say there were there or stopped briefly and is that why they claim one of the younger brothers was home?  What a burden and wrong to do to that other child if in fact this has been claimed!  That should be a crime against a child right there.

Sorry Peaches :oops:  :oops:

I too am trying to do a few things at the same time (not well, though).

Try this:

http://www.nycbar.org/pdf/report/ForeignArbitral.pdf

It should bring up the pdf.

Otherwise -- you need to type 'forum non conveniens' in that search box and it will return a link to the pdf.

Again -- sorry :oops:  I HATE when that happens.

Easy, we have sharp and capable minds here that can sift the spin from the truth.  We turn it over, and punch at it, and knead it some more, and the truth rises to the surface.  However, if we don't have the "dough" to start with, then how can we make bread?   :lol:   Please don't stop sharing your information--it is valuable.

I am still wondering about the evidence found in Joran's apartment that Natalee was there.  I believe Jossy when he says the police KNOW she was there.  He said that so emphatically that I feel there is evidence of her presence there.  Would her DNA be on his sheets, on his door or walls?  Did they find her sandals or some article of clothing there?  I suppose we should be glad that the prosecution is tight-lipped about evidence that will be used in a trial, but my curiosity is pushing the limits of my little brain!

Thanks, Sharon.  I guess and got it right.

I remember in the beginning when Beth first made contact with 'Dinkus',aka (Joran)..   he pounded his chest and and yelled at her '' what do you want me to do?""   he should have completed the comment right then and there. This would be all over with.. ''what do you wantr me to do,, she's already dead'' !!!   (sorry)   I've felt this for a long long time..


God Bless Natalee, Wherever She Is.........................

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows ...

Of course I don't personally remember this.

Jerry from Ohio,

It happen already, I kept sending some stuff to Klaasend to send to someone else and it wasn't what I thought I was sending.. She told me what I sent her and I couldn't believe it..  I know everyone that uses IM has done that, when trying to talk to multiple people at the same time..

I agree.  "What do you want to me to do?" seems like an incomplete thought by someone who knows the answer to the question.

Where was this posted?

Sharon, the NYC Bar article has nothing to do with this case or the civil case that JQK filed.  This article is about the enforcement of foreign arbitral awards.  The only thing in common with this case is the term forum non conveniens.  It does not deal with similar issues.

or.........."they already took her"....would make sense too

Or they've already disposed of her body.

I too always got the impression that after he said WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO.... that something like:  it's too late now would have followed.

And I feel that meant she was gone.

I agree it was an incomplete sentence  and even the beating on his chest was an inappropiate gesture filled with fear and rage that he was almost caught .
  Such a very sad thing that daddy was allowed and  steped in and stopped him,  if left to his own thought processes   he  would have put his foot in his mouth all the way up to his Knee.  Just an ol Country Boys opinion .
  Jerry from Ohio

**************************************************

agreeing on all of the above....

not that it solves anything

No, the three don't agreee that they went to his apt that nite.  2K say they took a completely differnet route, down the main road past La Cabana to the lighthouse.

Also, I don't believe it's true that ALE "knows" she was in his apt.

exactly !!!  the options are endless aren't they ?

 My wish is that dinkus' be cursed to re-live the events with Natalee, and eventually 'feel' something remorseful.....

Why?

I don't think the ale could find their own arse with a map and a compass.

Hey ya'll.

Because then Joran would be in jail now.

That was the source of Jossy's frustration and anger.  He said that the ALE KNOW she was in Joran's apartment that night, and he could not understand why they didn't arrest him.

Shizaru, did you listen to the webcast where Dana Pretzer interviewed Jossy?

AZLady -- you are correct. This opinion was not expressed as a result or as a request of JQK's filing and it is not related to the case.

This is a special committee of the NYC bar as far as I can tell -- and their role is to express opinions.

It is an opinion expressed on 'forum non conveniens' -- and when it does and does not apply.

Since it is a pdf, I can't seem to cut and paste the actual 'conclusion'.

I am not a lawyer (nor do I play one on TV) and I was told, by a legal type, that this would give the NYSC judge an 'opinion' to use or site in her decision.

Since I am not a lawyer, I was asking the legal minds on this board for their input -- I had originally posted this on the previous thread. Sorry for any confusion.

AZlady, if you are a legal mind -- I'm very interested in your input as to their conclusion.

I do believe Jossy when he makes emphatic public statements that cannot be misinterpreted.  He said, twice, on the air, that the police KNOW she was in Joran's apartment that night.  Thus, my follow-up question is how do they know this, what is their evidence, and, inevitably, why isn't Joran under arrest?

No, but altho I think Jossy's heart is in the right place, he's not infallible.  I believe there was an effort to protect Joran initially, but that right now if ALE could nail Joran they would.

I don't have time right now to look through his whole site ~ but his photo  on the home page is beautiful!!!

And I see that the site was made on a Mac.  It totally figures...


I need a new car ~ and I want a new Mac ~ Oh!  I can't wait till I save enough money to buy both!

Shizaru, this has nothing to do with Jossy's heart.  Jossy is not a liar; he tells the truth that he knows.  While others on Aruba have dissembled and fabricated and prevaricated, Jossy has always been proven to tell the truth as he knows it.  

He made a very clear statement that the police KNOW Natalee was at Joran's apartment that night.  He did not offer his opinion; he did not speculate.  He said, unequivocally, the police KNOW Natalee was at Joran's apartment that night.

Please go to the archives and listen to Jossy discuss the case.  You will hear what I heard. http://sundaynightsatellite.libsyn.com/

I'm not saying he's a liar, I'm saying he may have wrong information. And I think he does, for the reason I stated.  And also because if proof existed that she was in his apt, that would be such a huge bombshell that some word of it would have leaked a long time ago.

Klaas ~ if you think that this shouldn't be posted too many times ~ that it should be kept close to the vest ~ please delete this post.  Thanks!

I have to run out ~ but I'll be back in about an hour...

I brought all of Sharon's posts from the last thread on the NYC judge, the ruling, the Hague and NATO escorting Joran over from the last thread.  Thanks for getting my hopes up, Sharon!


sharon wrote:

Morning Monkeys!

I've been out of town a bit lately and away from Internet access -- so I have LOTS of reading to catch up on. It will take awhile.

I know we have 'legal' minds here -- so this is a question to them.

On Michelle's site there has been an 'anonymous' poster that has commented many times on the Hague convention and that if we hear NOTHING that JQK has the right to start questioning jvds and pvds at the 60 day mark. I will post a few of the comments below -- but I have NO IDEA if there is any truth to the comments. Or if they are even the same poster.

Anyone??

"Anonymous said...
Looks like the Judge is playing the Hague Convention 60 days waiting period game by her legal advisement panel. On July 17, JQK has the right to call Joran and Paulus for deposition in NYC courtroom. We will see what happen. This Natalee Case is highly charged and political. If the Bush Administration do not side with Natalee, there will be a very serious consequence for the Mid Term election in NYC for the Republicans.
Thu Jun 15, 01:02:52 AM EDT "

"Anonymous said...
Looks like the NYSC Judge advisement panel acts on the Hague Convention War Crime 60 days rules protocols without have the initiation Judge to make a ruling on the civil case. That means on July 15, 60 days after the May 15 hearing, the plaintiff can call the Defendant Joran and his lawyer Joe T. to the stand for deposition. Joran will be escorted by the NATO Marine Military Police, and flying in from Holland to New York City. Joran is now under citizen surveilance and prevented from escaping to another country.
Thu Jun 01, 11:10:49 AM EDT "

"Anonymous said...
The New York City Supreme Court has the direct Hague Convention power granted from the United Nations solely for the New York City Supreme Court to subpoena Joran from Holland to appear in
court in the Month of July, 2006 after Joran completed his current school session. Joran domiciles in Holland and refuses to appear before the Judge at New York City Supreme Court under the adivisement of his attorney Joe Tarcopina. Joran lost his domcile protection after violating the Aruban Judge's restriction travel order by a Dutch court. The NYCSC judge can compel the testimony of
Joran who is unwilling to appear by the force of the NATO military police on the wartime signatory treaties formalised between Holland and the United States ratified in 1965 by Hague Civil Precedure Convention.
Sat May 20, 06:12:51 AM EDT"

"Anonymous said...
The New York City Supreme Court has the direct Hague Convention power granted from the United Nations solely for the New York City Supreme Court to subpoena Joran from Holland to appear in
court in the Month of July, 2006 after Joran completed his current school session. Joran domiciles in Holland and refuses to appear before the Judge at New York City Supreme Court under the adivisement of his attorney Joe Tarcopina. Joran lost his domcile protection after violating the Aruban Judge's restriction travel order by a Dutch court. The NYCSC judge can compel the testimony of
Joran who is unwilling to appear by the force of the NATO military police on the wartime signatory treaties formalised between Holland and the United States ratified in 1965 by Hague Civil Precedure Convention.
Sat May 20, 06:12:51 AM EDT "


This was another VERY interesting post about the subject from a comment at Michelle's site.

This arm of the NY bar that has been formed to express opinions ..... basically says that Taco Joe is out of luck if he thinks that 'forum non conveniens' applies.

Anonymous said...
The New York City Bar Association don't support the Forum Non Conveniens. Here is the link,
http://www.abcny.org/Publications/reports/index.php?type=subject
Tue May 16, 08:10:39 AM EDT


Anonymous said...
It is very clear stated in Hague Convention that the New York City Supreme Court has the absolute subpoena power over all the civil cases related to all FNC over the world because New York City is the landlord of the United Nations' residence based on the Roman Stature. New York City is the only unique place in the world has that power, not even the White House in DC has that power. Please study the Hague Convention by-rules very carefully. United Nations is a Forum Non Conveniens to the Greater City of New York, so the Charter of United Nations pays tribute of civil jurisdiction to the Landlord who is the New York State Supreme Court. It is written in stone upon the Charter of United Nations.
Thu May 18, 10:59:51 PM EDT

Anonymous said...
It is a long haul. However, the Hague Convention allows the plaintiff to call witness while the advisement is in due process. The discoveries can be done in 3 to 4 weeks. But the monetary award by the Judge might take years for the decision depending the date of submital of the affidavit by the advisement panel.
Thu May 18, 02:42:14 AM EDT


"Anonymous said...
Rule 23. 60-Day Rule. If 60 days have elapsed after a motion has been finally submitted or oral argument held, whichever was later, and no decision has been issued by the court, counsel for the movant shall send the court a letter alerting it to this fact with copies to all parties to the motion. While the advisement is in motion and past 60 days without returning an affidavit to the Judge, the Judge will not discourage the plaintiff from calling the defendants to the stand, if the defense have no shows, the defendants will have lost the civil case under the provisions of the Hague Convension. A default judgement follows.
Thu May 18, 05:37:19 PM EDT

Sharon, I'm not the legal authority you seek.  My understanding is that if a case is cited as reference in court, it had darn well better pertain to the matter at hand or it has no bearing on the case.  This is true in any source-based writing, not just legal references or sources.

I do not agree.  Jossy is quite clear when he doubts his source and when he does not.  He is a canny and wise newspaper man who can judge his sources.  He is emphatic that the police KNOW Natalee was at Joran's apartment.   No, this would not be such a huge bombshell.  Beth stated that she felt Natalee had been there at the VDS home in June 2005.  This was her feeling, and she didn't have evidence of that at the time that she shared with us.  

You have little faith in the Prosecution or the ALE keeping evidence quiet and under wraps, don't you?  Well, we didn't learn about GVC and his possible knowledge of Natalee's disappearance until recently, a year after he had been interviewed several times!  I do not think we know all the evidence or information that is in possession of ALE and prosecution.  Yes, I do think this is a huge bombshell and it is time to explode it.  Happy 4th of July!!!    :D

third-

I agree regarding messages to the family as Easy said, is pretty ludicrous. I do however feel it's important to remember that not every pro-family site has no value beyond SM. If that were the case then Klaas wouldn't work so hard to pull posts or articles which appear there.

I also don't mind saying out loud that I wish to heaven we had grannytoad posting here, she has a mind like a steel trap and has contributed much. I know carnut would agree  :wink:

but I never wish away all trends of community thought or interaction, much like the approach to marketing a new product - you don't wish away all the competition for it validates your own existence to have competition?

Just IMO and not a negative toward you, but hopefully thought-provoking?

Sorry, I meant to say I do not think this is a huge bombshell but it's time to explode it.

Hi None.  What's up?

You're such a sweetie KatzHome :)

I don't want to get your hopes up  -- or mine or anyone's -- for nothing.

That's why I posted and asked for help from the 'legal' minds.

We were told early on when the civil suit was filed that there was very little 'precedence' for the decision on this jurisdiction.

I was interested to see what the NYSC judge might be 'researching' for her decision.

As with so much the past 13 months -- this might be more BS.

Well let's see, the 4th is a coming,

aren't we STILL waiting for those damn ''Fireworks'' ??? :roll:

While there has been little precedence for this decision, I think the judge is most likely researching the Constitutional rights of the family and how the Consitution upholds those rights as opposed to the rights of the state to declare jurisdiction.

because daddy paid for him not to be???

Hi AZ-

Just typing while my patient is napping  :wink:

I have had some email discussion with Sharon around her research and points though, and Chadbourne which is Scott Balber's firm has some really interesting partner profiles which introduce some expertise within the Supreme Courts, international and transnational crime and law, and also international partners with that expertise.

So I have to put in a vote from my uneducated non-lawyer opinion that I think it may be more complex than simply the forum of nonconveniens but hopefully we'll see over time.

When was the first admission that they even went by Joran’s house that night?  There was much speculation about such, but I believe the confirmation came from Joran’s lips during one of his interviews.  That disclosure did not cause ALE to bring him back in for questioning, did it?

My thoughts are that there are things in the declarations that led people to believe they were at Joran’s apartment.  His whole Greta interview miraculously adjusted in a manner to address every rumor we had heard and read of his statements.  There is a question about shoe size, so Joran makes a point of talking about his shoes.  There is a leak about them going by Joran’s apartment, so he brings it up in the interview in an effort to minimize the importance.  There was just one thing after another that was carefully adjusted during that interview in order to account for some contradiction that Joran left dangling in his declarations.

That interview would have been a masterpiece of deception, if anyone did not know the history of this case.

It wouldn't be a bombshell that she was there, but the fact that they could prove it would be.  

I have very little faith on the Prosecution or ALE period.  

I don't think GVC had any knowledge of Natalee's disappearance, I think ALE just arrested him because altho now they would nail Joran if they could, as long as they can't they will try to find alternate suspects to muddy the water.  

Happy 4th to you too.

You are entering the squeaking door of Intersanctum.

Easy-

Come on and admit it, we've met even psychopaths at work in corporate america  :lol: I know I have.

That's when I'd like to yell "hey put baby in the corner"  :lol: "and quickly"

hope you're feeling better today tyler, good to see you!

Nor do I take it anything other then thought provoking.  I know you to have always been respectful, so I would never believe this to be anythign other then that.  So, allow me to retort (as the greatr Samuel L. Jackson once said)...

I don't doubt that there are many purposeful reasons to have "other" sites actively involved in this case...even if/when they have opposing viewpoints.  It's perfectly natural and healthy to have debate.  But, there's a fine line between respectful debate, and abusive opposition.  And, strictly stating my opinion here, many of those said sites practice negativity in their presentations of their "truths".  And, again, speaking for myself, I would not want to be a part of that...now or ever.  Does that make the entire tree bad because of a few apples?  Of course not.  But, I think their reputation precedes them.  And, because of that, those "good" ones will tend to be overlooked...in favor of the many "bad" ones that outnumber them...ya know?

As for the competition factor...of course we need that aspect in order to thrive.  What fun would it be without it?  But, we have to make sure the game is played fairly or else winning isn't as much of a reward as it should be.  When your opponent plays dirty, it disrespects the game.  And, nobody wants to win that way.  I'm just proud of the way SM plays the game...

Thanks for the debate.  It's good to use my brain every once and a while...;)

Nonesuche can you e-mail me

Can y'all just invite grannytoad to come over here and visit?

None, I don't know about that GrannyToad.  We were told by one poster last night the posters at RWV were all din and sin.  Granny Toad, Anna, DH and I were amongst the long-term posters there, so we might all be considered nuts, flakes and toadies.

There ya go!

Granny Toad has refused many invitations and has repeated more than 1000 times that Natalee is in the sesspool.

oh.  :oops:  :?

Well duh!!  I think we ALL know Natalee was in Joran's apartment that night.  Why on earth would a 17 year old kid take a girlk to the beach when he had a place of his own (and all to himself if he wished)?  Makes no sense what so ever...

now you know that means you are in good stead, you're just funnin with me  :lol:  :lol:

Well, Wreck was right there with us as was Eleye.  We were all working hard and then our blogmeister took the florins from the faded, freckled fauna girl of Aruba, and  :roll:  we were all RTG then.

third, we're on the same page regarding respectful debate, thank you for affording me that  :wink:

my biggest concern is criticisms now against BFN, for actually I think they do a good job and assist the case just as SM has tried to. I'm a bit concerned to hear some think it's no longer that, that's all.

You don't go to beach and get sand in your pants when you have a perfectly good clean (I guess that's relative) bed at home.  Doesn't make sense.  Someone as bright and studious as the sporter would surely be able to decide between getting laid at home and getting sand in his naughty neighborhood.  I believe they were at the house.  I bet something small from Natalee's pocket (like her driver's license, underwear or something) ended up under the bed or under a pile of dirty clothes and Anita found it when she got home, heard about the incident and cleaned up the crime scene.

Peaches has got it, I know I think Anita is the wiser here - where is San???

San like me thinks Anita knows a plenty  :lol:

Anytime!  I always enjoy your dialogue...even when you're WRONG!!  ;)

Seriously though...I do think objectivity is VERY important...especially with regards to a case that's as emotionally charged as this one is.  Your concerns are legitimate...

Well, let me go.  I don't want to be mistaken for a refugee just because I once posted at RWV.  Of course, Anita knows.  I always said she even saw Natalee's panties, the only reason she could have identified them so well but then you know you all jumped on me when I said that out of fear I would insult Bon Dia's handmaidens.

make that three of us

Not when it's consensual, no.   But there are several reasons why a deserted beach near her hotel would be better suited for a nonconsensual encounter than his apt.

I would prefer to be left out of that "you all", if you don't mind.  I tried not to aggravate those from the island who were allegedly trying to be helpful (while busy misdirecting).  When Bondia/Julia/Glenda couldn't find the painted rocks, I knew we were being hosed big  time.  I guess I should've jumped to your defense.  I would never mistake you for a refugee.

such as?

But what if there was nobody else home?  And the scene of the crime is a detached building?  And maybe PVDS was either a wi tness or a participant?  

I have a lot of questions for someone with chemo brain.....

I think BFN is a good site.  For the most part they discuss the case much as we do with very few disruptive types always there stirring the pot.

The site I was talking about goes beyond anything that could be considered normal behavior.  Earlier their favorite topic was about Natalee running away because she was getting forced to get a nose job.  Another topic had to do with her taste in prom outfits.  Then the thread that prompted my post was a challenge to Beth to publicly answer some of their ridiculous questions since they knew she spent a lot of time reading their board.  I think they even decide what pseudonym she was using while reading all their insightful posts.

Now that chit just ain’t normal I tell ya!

Good analysis there, Easy.  ABnormal.

LOL! "Only the Shadow knows...." 8)

These punks had this down to a science and I don't believe that formula included a public beach.  They swoop in 30 minutes before a bar closes and talk a tourist that is there on her last night of holiday to leave with them.  They had a place to go and it was not rolling around in the sand.

Since I have already entered Intersanctum, I just want to say, that I can see it from Shiz's viewpoint and from that of going to Joran's house.  Personally I do not think that what happened, happened at the house but see I am not as smart as the rest of you.  I am just thinking that a girl on vacation who thinks this stooge is an exchange student from Holland is not going to go to his house.  She wants to have romance somewhere near a beach, if it is consensual, not where the VDS live.  Maybe it is not substandard by their standards, but if Natalee saw that house thinking they were a family of large means, she might have had a heart attack just thinking what a mess she had gotten her house into, believing they lived in a "big house."

Those are good points, TG.  I forgot about the exchange student scam he was running.  I can't see the boys pulling this off 20 times if they made a habit of heading for the beach.  Maybe.  I don't know.  It's so hard to keep the lies straight.

That is why I believe this happened at a motel/hotel or some place near the beach.  They may have gone to the VDS house but I just do not believe it happened there.  I think Paulus had found a room at a hotel/motel and it occurred somewhere near the HI, perhaps even the HI.  How do we know what those cameras showed or did not show ? If it showed them taking Natlaee there, you know the powers that be at HI, had that all deleted and redone by the time Beth arrived.  No way did they want their little house of horrors involved in this and thus, the nice gesture to let Beth stay so she would be less than wise to their goings-on.

I think Bro Easy  can and should have an amen for that last statement   AMEN !!
   Now lets not get bogged down about the other sites  as most of us really know their agenda and what their doing.  
>>  Easy said in part >>>
I think BFN is a good site.  For the most part they discuss the case much as we do with very few disruptive types always there stirring the pot.

The site I was talking about goes beyond anything that could be considered normal behavior.  Earlier their favorite topic was about Natalee running away because she was getting forced to get a nose job.  Another topic had to do with her taste in prom outfits.  Then the thread that prompted my post was a challenge to Beth to publicly answer some of their ridiculous questions since they knew she spent a lot of time reading their board.  I think they even decide what pseudonym she was using while reading all their insightful posts.

Now that chit just ain’t normal I tell ya![/quote]

AMEN Again Easy OlBud !!!  Jerry  :D

Someplace like THE MILL RESORT?  Where Loco Stef was as in the Bailey Ann last night in Aruba??

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/Steflocowildnight2.jpg)

I'm one of those also. Anita is used to 'running the show' around her house it looks like to me, and sooner or later, she found/figured everything out. She's The General.

For any of our Alabama Monkeys that haven't heard yet...

2 of this state's biggest THUGS will be donning pinstripes soon!

Don Siegelman and Richard Scrushy are both CONVICTED on multiple counts involving fraud and extortion today.

I don't know.  I've never been of the belief that Paulus had any involvement deeper then helping to conceal the crime after the fact (and disposing of her body).  I just can't (for whatever reason) see him being directly involved with her rape and murder...

It's happy hour here.

Is everybody happy?  

I'm working on it.

Who's Loco Stef?  Forgive me if this is a dumb question...

Good.  Maybe they can by roomies with those Enron crooks.

WOO HOO!!!!!! Had not heard that yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hotr damn! Justice WAS served. :D

Geez, I forgot about the Mill Resort and Stef.  I need a flowchart to keep all this stuff straight!

I should have probably said that Joran was The General and Anita is the Lt. General. I still cannot get over his "rubbing" of his parents' shoulders and his mother's hair..yuk.

I wonder where Loco Stef is these days?

whoever was wonderng if the police knew J2K's 1st story was BS or not when they arrested the security guards:

Thirdstrike - in March 2005 we have photos of Joran, Deepak and Freddy have fun with a tourist girl and her friend on their last night in Aruba.  Bailey Ann and her girlfriend.  Loco Stef is an Aruban girl that befriended Bailey Ann and is seen in this photo:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/deepakcar.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/arubamarch84.jpg)

We suspect that this photo of Loco Stef at THE MILL RESORT was taken that same night:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/Steflocowildnight2.jpg)

Here is an earlier photo of Joran with Loco Stef:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/Stef_loco_latina.jpg)[/b]

Ono, I am so glad you are here with me to cheer.   :lol:  :lol:

Who is Bailey Anne?  I know she was photographed with the goons, but what happened?

Based on conversations with Melody, I would say she might have been a stand-in or possibly a partner with Loco Steph.  Just speculating, you know.  Nothing in granite or marble.

Tylergal - I would not be surprised at all if Melody was another one of their local girls sent to help them "get the tourist girls".

Was it justice?  Or just jurists that didn't want to deal with it over the 4th of July weekend?

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: Me too Tyler! I can't even link onto Alabama Live right now...must be crowds trying to get on.  It's sooooo long overdue!

They make the Enron fellas look like choirboys.

I bet there are more than two of them too.

YES, justice was served.

Fourth of July or not, those two cancerous thugs have bribed and swindled and peddled influence for the last time. The NERVE siegeljerk had to actually run for governor while being tried for these charges...

Now let's nail Terry Butts and Doug Jones and this state will be a long way toward cleaning up the thugs AND their crook attorneys.

I googled "Richard Scrushy" -- and it said he was ACQUITTED on all charges?!?

That was from the last time he was tried, last year. This is an entirely different trial today. Believe me, he won't be cracking open the champagne tonight like he did last year! Arrogant jerk.

http://beta.abc3340.com/news/stories/0606/340465.html

Siegelman, Scrushy Convicted On Federal Charges

Montgomery (AP) -     Former Gov. Don Siegelman and former Health South CEO Richard Scrushy were convicted Thursday in a bribery scheme that derailed Siegelman's campaign to retake his former office.
(snipped)

KLAAS, let's not forget that Melody was explainng how close she lived to the Marriott and Joran knew a short cut from her house to his house from there.  It sounds like to me this was a routine.  I asked her if Joran liked rough sex to which she replied "only once in a blue moon."  I asked her if there were two moons in May 2005.  I don't think it computated with her, but that "once in a blue moon," might mean when he picks up tourist girls.

Remember that 16 year old that came to the defense of Joran and she had no problem saying that Joran and her were intimate and that he was such a gentleman when staying with them, here in the states.. I thought that was strange, what happen to being sweet 16 and the parents seemed to have no problem with it.. That Melody seemed to be the same type of girl and I'm sure no girl with any class would be defending Joran..

What kind of mother would have allowed that?  Like mother, like daughter, like mother.  

Hi, Terry.

wreck, I've had Google do that to me before, they are TERRIBLE about time tags and the like! It can be confusing to follow cases like that sometimes when all there is is a name to look up.

If you google Natalee you may get an article from yesterday and an article from last year at the same time.

Shelby Cadmus:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/ShelbyCadmus.jpg)

Thanks, it was a WaPo article dated June 29th,2005 --- that is what threw me!

Melody on the left - very "close" to Joran:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/melody2.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/melody.jpg)

Ono, Can ya imagine  Ol Joran and Anita in  a consensual sexual relationship ? Now keep an open mind all,  the Dutch culture is far far more permissive and Kinky  then any thing that we in the USA can imagine ,  I thought about this when the pantie  description came out  but yet NO one as a hard copy of it even when i wrote te GVS wire all I was told was that it was only Gretas sense of  how orrific  the sex tales told to her by Anita were so shocking to hear .
  is it also possable that Anita  get's turned on  by  talking about these things or is possably Bisexual ?
  and I do have a very very strong feeling that PVDS
would with very little prodding jump into a sexual consensual or  not  sexual trist with an obviousley  underage girl if he had the chance and his wife was absent right >?
  Now I know these thoughts are very unsetteling to some and I say them not to be titalating  but just to point out the non conviential sexual acts that these people are possably capable of  and as for the Kalpo bros  I believe that they would have intercourse with a snake if someone promised to hold it's head,  they are just that low  especially DeePak that scumbag .
  I sincerly hope that this dosent offend  but I think that when this all over that we all may be more shocked then any of us think .
 and as for her passing I can and do send up smoke that NH's passing was quick and that the Lord made it as painless as he could .
  I am sorry  I do not think that it was a accidental fall or any type of an accident Murder intentiontal with no remorse .
 Please do not make it look any better then it is
  and as always this just my own personal opinion
  Jerry from Ohio  

Hi Tylergal,

Yes Melody was on RWV posting and I used to think that she was clueless and was there to muddy the waters.. She actually messed up a few times because she was the one that let the cat out of the bag about Joran having the friend (Freddy) sleep over.. They are all in the same gang and I'm sure the gang (PIMPS) have some girls too..

Klassend thats correct (Shelby Cadmus) I thought that her parents should of been arrested for how they raised that girl.. She was 16 at the time she was talking and had no problem saying that Joran stayed in her room at her parents house while he was here and that his one problem was he left stuff on the floor in their room, I guess his shoes or condom's..  I think if I knew her parents I would not have anything nice to say..

Jerry from Ohio,  I don't think we can even come closed to what goes on, on that slutty little island.. I'm sure that its a real cess pool of perversions..

Jerry, I have had these for the longest time, waiting for someone to mention it.

www.stolenchildren.net/pr/morality.html


www.family.org/fofmag/pp/a0024006.cfm

Here is a part that got to me with that young American girl;

S. CADMUS: I wouldn’t be as attracted to him and the more, he lived with me for three weeks, so obviously, you know, you start fighting, and just minor fights, “Oh, you left your cereal bowl on the table, you have to clean up after yourself,” just minor fights.  Obviously, we would become frustrated with each other living with each other for three weeks.  And no violence, no anger at all, just very calm and subdued.

ABRAMS: And when you would reject advances, it sounds like Mom is suggesting that there was some point when you were no longer interested in him?

S. CADMUS: Toward the end of the three weeks, I wasn’t interested in him in a romantic way, more of just friends, and we got to know each other more over these three weeks and I saw him as a friend.

She was telling this with her Mother sitting there smiling..  I guess I will take a walk this just makes me mad to think there are parents out there that have no principles or judgments rasing kids..

WOW now I really need to take a walk that not right..  Tylergal I guess its part of their culture and I try not to judge but stuff like this makes you feel that they really are just pretentious pieces of Eurotrash?  I will go for now, I think I need a break..


www.stolenchildren.net/pr/morality.html

  Terry  I have never been there and will never go there! But i personly know of quite a few bands that have played there about 15 to 20 years ago and when the guys got together and talked  all they talked about was that if you had American dollars  there was NOTHING that you could not get  or see .
 Now i do not imagine  things have changed all that much.
    Jerry from Ohio

Sorry that I keep going at it, but I found the transcription and I want you to read what Bush said today with regards to the missing young woman in N. Korea.  It would've been nice if he told that to Beth.  After that I have to get off.  Thanks.


President Bush and Japanese Prime Minister Koizumi Participate in a Joint Press Availability The East Room

President's Remarks
 view  

      Fact Sheet: The Japan-U.S. Alliance of the New Century
      In Focus: Global Diplomacy


11:33 A.M. EDT

PRESIDENT BUSH: Thank you all. Please be seated. Mr. Prime Minister, as I said on the South Lawn, we are delighted to have you here in Washington. The Prime Minister and I have got a very friendly relationship. We've just had two hours of discussions. We talked about a lot of areas of mutual concern. I've reminded the Prime Minister -- the American people, Mr. Prime Minister, over the past months that it was not always a given that the United States and America [sic] would have a close relationship. After all, 60 years we were at war -- 60 years ago we were at war, and today we talked about North Korea, and Iran, and Iraq, and trade, and energy cooperation.

 It's amazing fact that we're able to have these discussions. To me it shows the power of liberty and democracy to transform enemies to allies and to help transform the world. And one thing about the Prime Minister is he understands that. He's a firm believer that -- in universal values. He believes in freedom. And he's willing to act on those beliefs. And we have been a strong partner in peace, Mr. Prime Minister.

You've had a remarkable tenure as the Prime Minister of your country. You have led with courage, you have made hard decisions. You've helped us change our relationship so that Japan and the United States will be able to work even closer together in the 21st century. You made the hard decision to help realign our troops in your part of the world to better accommodate the needs of the Japanese people, and at the same time, keep in position a relationship that will be necessary for peace and stability.

I want to thank you for opening your markets to U.S. beef. I think the Japanese people are going to like the taste of U.S. beef. As a matter of fact, I had a good slice of beef last night, and you told me you did, as well, and you look like you're feeling pretty good. (Laughter.)

PRIME MINISTER KOIZUMI: Very good. (Laughter.)

PRESIDENT BUSH: Right, good. We had an interesting discussion about energy. One of the things that Japan and the United States can do is we can help provide technologies that will improve the climate, as well as reduce our dependence on hydrocarbons. We discussed the Nuclear Suppliers Group that we're a part of, and our contributions to some research and development that will help speed up fast breeder reactors and new types of reprocessing so that we can help deal with the cost of globalization when it comes to energy; make ourselves more secure, economically, as well as make us less dependent on hydrocarbons from parts of the world that may not agree with our policies.

We -- as I mentioned, we discussed Iraq and Afghanistan. By the way, the Japanese defense forces did a really good job when they were in Iraq. And they're able to leave because they did such a good job. And now the Iraqis will be running the province in which the Japanese forces used to be. Nevertheless, the Prime Minister, as he mentioned in the comments, will continue to provide airlift capacity and naval help.

 The North Korean issue is one, obviously, that's got everybody's attention now. And we discussed this issue in length. We both agree that it's very important for us to remain united in sending a clear message to the North Korean leader that, first of all, launching the missile is unacceptable. There have been no briefings as to what's on top of the missile. He hasn't told anybody where the missile is going. He has an obligation, it seems like to me, and the Prime Minister, that there be a full briefing to those of us who are concerned about this issue as to what his intentions are. It makes sense, doesn't it? It's a reasonable thing for somebody to do.

We talked about the six-party talks, and to make sure we remain bound up in sending a clear message to the leader of North Korea. I also talked about one of the most touching moments of my presidency, when the mom of the abducted daughter came to the Oval Office and talked to me about what it was like to have a young daughter abducted by the North Koreans. And it really broke my heart. I told the Prime Minister it was -- it was a moving moment for me. I just could not imagine what it would be like to have somebody have taken, you know, my daughter -- one of my daughters -- and never be able to see her again. And the woman showed such great courage, Mr. Prime Minister, when she came and shared her story with me. It took everything I could not to weep, listening to her.

It also reminded me about the nature of the regime -- what kind of regime would kidnap people, just take them off offshore, you know; what kind of person would not care about how that woman felt.

And so we talked about the need to work together to bring a resolution to this issue about nuclear weapons. And I reminded the Prime Minister -- he didn't need reminding, but I'm going to share with him once again my deep concern about the human condition inside North Korea. He shares that condition -- after all, he's the Prime Minister of a country that has suffered a lot as a result of abductions. So we spent time talking about abductions.

All in all, it was a visit that I knew was going to be a good one because I know the man; I know what he's like: he's a good thinker, he's a strategic thinker, he's a clear speaker. And, plus, as you all know, it's become quite well-known that we're going to visit Graceland tomorrow. He's an Elvis fan. Laura and I gave him a jukebox as a gift, and I can't -- what was the first song you put on? It wasn't "Hound Dog," it was --

 PRIME MINISTER KOIZUMI: "I Want You, I Need You, I Love You."

PRESIDENT BUSH: See, he loves Elvis, and I couldn't think of a better way to honor my friend by going to Graceland. But it also sends a signal about how close our relationship is.

And so Mr. Prime Minister, we're glad you're here. Thanks for your friendship, thanks for your alliance, and thanks for your leadership.

PRIME MINISTER KOIZUMI: (As translated.) Thank you very much. With President Bush, I had a very candid exchange of views. Over the past five years, I've really had a close friendship with President Bush, and thanks to that we've been able to have a very candid exchange of views. And I believe this is not just limited to close relations between us, personally, but I believe this close relationship is necessary in the future between Japan and the United States, as well.

Japan and the United States is in a Japan-U.S. alliance in the world, and we confirmed that we can cooperate with each other on various challenges, maintain Japan's security and deterrence, and reduce burdens on local communities. On these points we were able to have a very important agreement, and we're most grateful for that.

In the meeting, we discussed not just Japan-U.S. bilateral relations, but numerous challenges that the world community faces today -- Afghanistan, North Korea, poverty reduction -- reduced poverty for people who suffer from various diseases. We shared common perception, and by doing so we'll be able to cooperate with each other.

Now, Japan, in a way different than the U.S., has been supporting the nation-building in Iraq by the Iraqis, themselves. The ground self-defense forces stationed in Samawa, having accomplished their mission, will be withdrawing. But as a responsible member of the international community, through cooperation with various countries concerned and through cooperation with the United Nations, Japan will continue provide support and help the Iraqis get back on their feet.

With regard to North Korea, we spent a lot of time, and I expressed my views, and President Bush also expressed his thoughts. President Bush was kind enough to meet with Mrs. Sakie Yokota. And he told me he was very moved on that occasion. Anyone, if one's daughter is abducted, naturally will be grieved. And this feeling need be shared by Americans and Japanese. And we discussed that sort of thing.

We do have the six-party talks framework. Japan and the United States, I believe, need to maintain close coordination and encourage North Korea to become a responsible member of the international community.

With regard to Iranian nuclear proliferation, Japan also is concerned about this problem. The United States attaches importance to cooperation with EU and other countries concerned. Japan certainly supports that U.S. stance of seeking resolution through a dialogue regarding the nuclear proliferation issue. The Iranian issue remains a grave issue for the entire world economy, and Japan wishes to cooperate with the United States and other countries concerned on this matter, as well.

On U.N. reforms, building on the results achieved so far, we would like to work out with the G4 a proposal that can be supported by the United States and achieve reforms in the United Nations and the Security Council. Japan and the United States will maintain close coordination and partnership. We need to do that and address various challenges.

The Japan-U.S. alliance is not just an alliance for our two countries; it is an alliance for the world. And in the interest of the world we were able to confirm that we need to cooperate with each other, and I think this was a very substantive, fruitful meeting. And I would like to thank President Bush and the U.S. for a very warm, hospitable welcome.

PRESIDENT BUSH: We've agreed to take two questions a side. Walking in, I reminded the Prime Minister of one of Elvis's greatest songs, "Don't Be Cruel" -- (laughter) -- so keep that in mind, Hunt, when you ask your question.

Q Thank you, Mr. President. You've said that you wanted to close the prison at Guantanamo Bay, but you were waiting for the Supreme Court decision that came out today. Do you intend now to close the Guantanamo Bay quickly? And how do you deal with the suspects that you've said were too dangerous to be released or sent home?

PRESIDENT BUSH: Thank you for the question on a court ruling that literally came out in the midst of my meeting with the Prime Minister -- and so I haven't had a chance to fully review the findings of the Supreme Court. I, one, assure you that we take them very seriously. Two, that to the extent that there is latitude to work with the Congress to determine whether or not the military tribunals will be an avenue in which to give people their day in court, we will do so.

The American people need to know that this ruling, as I understand it, won't cause killers to be put out on the street. In other words, there's not a -- it was a drive-by briefing on the way here, I was told that this was not going to be the case. At any rate, we will seriously look at the findings, obviously. And one thing I'm not going to do, though, is I'm not going to jeopardize the safety of the American people. People have got to understand that. I understand we're in a war on terror; that these people were picked up off of a battlefield; and I will protect the people and, at the same time, conform with the findings of the Supreme Court.

Q Do you think the prison will close?

PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, I haven't had a chance to fully review what the court said, Terry. I wish I had, and I could have given you a better answer. As I say, we take the findings seriously. And, again, as I understand it -- now please don't hold me to this -- that there is a way forward with military tribunals in working with the United States Congress; as I understand certain senators have already been out expressing their desire to what the Supreme Court found, and we will work with the Congress. I want to find a way forward.

In other words, I have told the people that I would like for there to be a way to return people from Guantanamo to their home countries, but some of them -- people need to be tried in our courts. And that's -- the Hamdan decision was the way forward for that part of my statement, and, again, I would like to review the case. And we are, we've got people looking at it right now to determine how we can work with Congress if that's available to solve the problem.

Q On North Korea, I'd like to ask a question of both of you, Prime Minister and President. On North Korea, I understand you spent a lot of time to exchange views. It is said that the North Koreans are preparing to launch Taepodong-2. To resolve this missile issue, what kind of cooperation do you think is possible between Japan and the United States? And also, did you discuss possibly referring the matter to the U.N. Security Council?

On the abduction issue and human rights issue, I understand, Mr. President, you've shown deep concerns for the resolution of the abduction issue. What sort of cooperation do you think is possible between the U.S. and Japan?

PRESIDENT BUSH: Do you want to go? Yes, please.

PRIME MINISTER KOIZUMI: (As translated.) The North Koreans -- I believe, in the first place, we need to try and approach the North Koreans not to launch Taepodong-2 through various efforts, and should they ever launch the missile, that will cause various pressures -- we would apply various pressures. And we discussed that. I believe it is best that I do not discuss what specific pressures we were talking about.

As we approach the North Koreans, we shall maintain close cooperation and coordination with the United States, including the abduction issue.

PRESIDENT BUSH: -- all kinds of opportunities, and the U.N. is an opportunity to express our common concern. You know, another interesting opportunity is, over time, to work on missile defenses. The Japanese cannot be -- afford to be held hostage to rockets. And neither can the United States or any other body who loves freedom. And so one really interesting opportunity is for -- to share and cooperate on missile defenses.

You know, the leader of North Korea is just going to have to make a decision, does he want to be isolated from the world, or is he interested in being an active participant in kind of the nations of the world who care about their people and desire peace? It's his choice to make. We've made our choice. We believe it's important for nations such as Japan and the United States to be active participants in the world in a positive way. And that's what we're doing.

You know, a lot of the focus of our relationship is based upon, obviously, Iraq and Afghanistan, but the truth of the matter is, Japan and the United States make mighty contributions to end suffering because of disease and hunger. And that's why I appreciate the Prime Minister's leadership. He understands that with economic might comes serious responsibilities in the world. And the United States takes those responsibilities seriously, and so does Japan.

Q Yes, Mr. President. We can assume you've at least been given some of the broad strokes of the Supreme Court's decision on Guantanamo --

PRESIDENT BUSH: I just gave you the answer on that. I'll be glad to answer another question -- I gave you the broad strokes I've been given.

Q Right, but this -- can you comment on what looks like a judicial repudiation of your administration's policy on the treatment of terror suspects post-9/11?

PRESIDENT BUSH: Matt, I can't -- I wish I could comment, and would, obviously. I'm a person who generally comments on things. I haven't been briefed enough to make a comment on it, except for the following things. I'm sorry you had to waste your question, but we will conform to the Supreme Court, we will analyze the decision. To the extent that the Congress has given any latitude to develop a way forward using military tribunals, we will work with them.

As I understand, a Senator has already been on TV. Haven't seen it, haven't heard what he said, but as -- they briefed me and said he wants to devise law in conformity with the case that would enable us to use a military tribunal to hold these people to account. And if that's the case, we'll work with him. But that's -- I can't comment any more than I have just done in the first question. Otherwise I would have. I just haven't been fully briefed enough to answer your question, Matt.

Q (As translated.) Over the past five years, Prime Minister Koizumi and President Bush have built up the best sort of relationship between the two of you in the history of Japan and the United States. Now, what is the greatest reason for having maintained this policy of attaching greatest importance to Japan-U.S. relations?

A question for President Bush: Various problems have occurred after 9/11. And in the Prime Minister Koizumi's policy of attaching importance to Japan-U.S. relations, what was the case, instance where you were most appreciative of Prime Minister Koizumi's position? And what sort of impact has it had -- has it had on your feeling and stance toward Japan?

PRIME MINISTER KOIZUMI: (As translated.) Well, attaching importance to our relations with the United States -- well, after the second world war, throughout, over the past six years, Japan has maintained that policy. We've recognized the importance of Japan-U.S. alliance, and also maintain a stance of international cooperation and coordination. It's because we have learned the lessons of World War II we took up this policy in believing that this was good for Japan. In the past, today, and the future, as well maintain Japan-U.S. alliance and international cooperation. This is a very important fundamental policy of Japan that should never change.

Last year, President Bush visited Kyoto in Japan and had one-on-one meeting. Some seem to think that the -- to the extent that Japan-U.S. relations is undermined, that could be complemented by better relations with Asia and other countries. And I've said I do not subscribe to that view. The better the Japan-U.S. relations, my view is that we will be able to have better relations with China and other countries and Asia.

Some in the mass media took up on that and misinterpreted my position. In other words, they felt that I was saying to the extent Japan-U.S. relations remain good, I couldn't care less what Japan's relations would be with other countries. That is not at all what I said. I've been saying that there is no country in the world that has as important bilateral relations as Japan-U.S. bilateral relations. But I have no view such as having better relations with the United States at the expense of relations with other countries.

My view is that by having better relations with the United States, I can have better relations with other countries. And from that perspective, in the post-war years, Japan has achieved remarkable growth and development. It is because we've learned lessons from the past in our relations with the United States and determined to maintain friendly relations with the United States. And that is what we have done to date.

In the future, as well, Japan-U.S. alliance is something that will be -- contribute to the resolution of various challenges in the world by maintaining friendly ties between Japan and the United States. Attaching importance to our relations with the United States does not sacrifice our views and our relations with other countries. Please do not misunderstand.

PRESIDENT BUSH: It's a pretty tricky question. I hate to point out one area where that has influenced my thinking about Japan's contributions for fear of diminishing the contributions in other areas. Because the truth of the matter is we live in a very complex world, and by cooperating to solve problems makes the world a better place. However, since you asked, I'll answer. I would think it is the Prime Minister's understanding of the capacity for democracies to help change the conditions of the world. And, therefore, his strong support for helping a new Afghanistan democracy grow and his willingness to do something a lot of other leaders in Japan have been unwilling to do, which is to commit self-defense forces to help the growth of a new democracy.

And I tell the American people this, I use the Prime Minister all the time in my speeches, as the press corps will tell you, incredibly bored of hearing. But, nevertheless, I do

share the example with the people about my relationship with the Prime Minister. It is just -- it strikes me as just amazing. A lot of people take it for granted. I don't, because 60 years ago we were at war. And something happened between our visit to Graceland and when our respective fathers looked at each other with deep suspicion. And what happened was, Japan developed a Japanese-style democracy based upon shared values. And today, we're able to discuss peace. It is a remarkable transformation of a relationship. We just happen to be the beneficiaries of that transformation. I also believe, however, that there are people who are coming up who have shedded the bonds of tyranny are also the benefits of this relationship.

And so Japan is making a mighty contribution to new democracy, which I strongly believe is in our nation's interests, and I strongly believe will yield peace. And I firmly believe that the example that we show today will be repeated over the decades, particularly with newly-elected leaders in the Middle East. And the Prime Minister understands that. And I'm grateful for the contribution of the Japanese people to the cause of peace.

Mr. Prime Minister, thank you.

PRIME MINISTER KOIZUMI: Thank you, very much, American people, for "Love Me Tender." (Laughter.)

END 12:00 P.M. EDT

What was in the deal for Loco Stephie?
a) Drugs?
b) Voyuerism?
c) Girl on girl action?
d) Profits from the videos?
e) all of the above?

San is here now and Anita knows the whole deal including the discussion with her son when he discussed his sexual assault against Natalee in front of Beth and Greta.  

Obviously someone is lying because her son now says they never had sex.  Is Anita the one now making up her story.

I worked at Health South years ago.   :shock:   :(

I'll pick d.

Drugs are easy to come by on that drug infested island.

who was this girl???

I am glad this is finally over.  Maybe one of the BHAMers can give us some insight to the Tajmahal that Scrushy was buiding in honor of himself that was stopped in mid construction, and what is going to be done about that or can be done about that.

Oh, yeah and will we rename Scrushy Drive and all the buildings erected to his majesty?

Anna, that seems to be a big problem.  So many people not understanding the laws.

OK, WTF is wrong with this place????????  Do i just not get it or is this just the most messed up thing you ever heard of???

can you elaborate on this?

Strange people, very barbaric and they call us Cowboys.

Of course.  Bush cannot do anything about what happened to Natalee, beyond offering what he has, Condi's help at the state department, FBI agents, DEA agents.  That is a soverign nation.  We cannot go in dropping bombs on Aruba because one of our citizens visited there and never returned.  This is totally different from what has happened with the wholesale of children for the World Cup.  The International Community would get involved.  

For Bush to go in there and blow up Aruba, would be like someone visiting here from London and being kidnapped at Disney World.  Tony Blair is not going to drop bombs on Florida.

Okay, I'll bite!
I've got 75 Euros for Joran to try this! (wouldn't it be a shame if their was a malfunction???)  :roll:   :twisted:    :D

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM


 :wink:

-- hate that! their = there

I really need to proofread before I post

Not to worry, we all do it.  I read that in a book once where "there" was used as a pronoun and I could not make sense of what they were saying until I figured out someone had mistyped the word.  Honest mistakes happen.

With more voice recognition, we are going to be seeing more and more of that and worse. :cry:

whew, I thought I'd lost my mind for a second. I understand the restrictions around Aruba vs Korea, just was concerned if we were all now not understanding law or if it's just Aruba who doesn't?  :lol:

I think Aruba writes their own laws  :lol:

so no one knows anything about the dame that called the FBI and told them about Deepak trying to get her to lie for him?

Anna, re President, well said.

There is a huge difference is someone being kidnapped by a FOREIGN GOVERNMENT and by three garden variety punks.  When a FOREIGN GOVERNMENT kidnaps, it is considered an internationally hostile incident between governments.  When punks kidnap, it is regular street crime and has nothing to do with entire nations.

KIDHAPPING BY A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT is taken to be hostility by the ENTIRE NATION AGAINST ANOTHER ENTIRE NATION, not a crime against one person.  It can even be considered an act of war.

Why some want to use this to take political snipes at Bush like this I don't understand but the two things are not even close.  No, Bush certainly should never have told Beth he was sorry a foreign government kidnapped and were holding her daughter because it never happened.
Natalee is not locked up in KIA for some later use in exchange for prisoners or to blackmail our government.

She is likely dead at the hands of individuals who do NOT represent their government.  They were not acting on instructions received from their Parliament or Intelligence Services in what they did.  They acted alone on the basis of their own INDIVIDUAL evil and greed.  No government told or paid them to do what they did, at least that we are aware of and can prove.  

It is ludicrous to compare the two situations, too.  We all know Bush would be impeached in a heartbeat if he even thought about considering this a political kidnapping.  Bush is not even allowed to protect U.S. Citizens on U.S. soil let alone on foreign turf.  So if someone has proof that this was ordered by the Parliament or Military of Aruba, please present it.  Otherwise, it is apples and oranges.

.

None, I think it is called AL.  Ad lib it as they go. :lol:

Are you referring to the one that Skeeters talked to Deepak about in the taped conversation?

It would be interesting to know.  I think for some reason and I don't know how and why but I get a bad feeling about Deepak being on line, either phone or computer with someone from the USA at the time this happened.  There was also the name 'STEVE' written on a piece of paper on his person with the name of a cruise ship that has been involved in human trafficking, which is owned by someone in Florida.  I wonder if there is a connection with Mr. Pink, Deepak, et al.

One of our posters from that area of the USA where Mr. Pink has been known to travel/live was very supportive and defensive about Deepak.

I wish I did, Blah.  There was rumor long time ago that it was Melody but I don't think so.  I have no idea who she is.   :? But I would love to know and also what Deepak actually said to her.

Ignoring things like this --this is why I don't think ALE is collecting anything nor KJ has any plans to prosecute at all.  I wonder if the judge was even told about this or half the other stuff that has gone on.  Wouldn't want him to think badly of the J2K, now would we?

.

Anna, I wondered about Melody as well, because she inserted herself into this about the time all this was being talked about but then the newspaper people and the VDS family took control of her and caused her to change her mind, if it was indeed she who was called for the alibi.

I dont know if it is the same girl or not.  Deepak called this girl after being in court to hear the testimony of the gardner witness.  Here is Beths quote:

"Nancy, go back to August, go back when the gardener`s statement was given before the judge of instruction, sworn testimony, the defense, the prosecutor, Deepak, Satish, and Joran.

And what happened was his statement was credible and Deepak panicked. He panicked that very day, made a phone call to a girl looking for an alibi. This young woman became very upset and concerned, made a phone call to the FBI. She did not want to be involved in it."

Blah  - here's what I know.  Without naming the nickname of the poster I will say that she was a poster at SM.  She was "close" to Deepak and confided in me that Deepak was very upset with her over the FBI deal.  What it sounded like to me is that Deepak was very worried about the Gardener witness, that the Gardener may have actually seen them.  That's all I know.

I find it interesting that she called the FBI instead of the ALE, expecially if she was in Aruba.  Did she know about ALE involvement and knew she couldnt go to them??

.
Well, Deepak was upset about the gardener witness because he had the fit and threw the dominoes all over the room.  I don't think he would be upset if he was not seen.


And that just blows any time line I have ever had right out of the water, too.   :?

do you still communicate with her?

yeah, now add to that - the gardener is gone.  What happneed to him, does anyone even know?

No, haven't for months.

Blah - to let you know how long it's been, the last time I communicated with her was when we still had the PM feature.  I will tell you that she did not live in Aruba but the US.

Dam.  It sure would be nice to know if the FBI interrogated her, or at least asked a few questions.

Was he deported as an illegal?  Or ran away to keep from being jailed like the current Colombian?

JQK on Greta tonight...

i'm pretty sure he was deported, but where to? Why? Has anyone contacted him since?  Can he still be brought back to aruba to testify if need be?

Blah,
I am sure the FBI took her statement.  They also did those of the MB students but ALE didn't even bother to read them for months.  Not until they decided they could be used to cast aspersions elsewhere and away from J2K.  Maybe no one has bothered to read what she said.

You have to want to build a case and be actually looking for information to find it.   :(

This one?

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:32 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Social & Domestic Issues
Replace Liberal with Morally Decayed
by Mike Thompson
Posted Jun 23, 2005

Fifty years ago, a decade after Europeans had been extricated from the hellhole of World War Two by their magnanimous American cousins, the Old World denizens again were enjoying the fruits of civility envisioned for them in their Maker’s original Garden of Eden.

Yet, British writer William Golding, eventual winner of a Nobel Price for literature, foresaw how easily barbarism again could vanquish the West’s inherent Christian decency. His Lord of the Flies, published in 1954, was the first of three allegorical novels that would explore fundamental challenges to human existence, survival and freedom. Lord of the Flies specifically describes the horrific slide into savagery by aband of young children following the crash of their plane on a small tropical island (not too unlike Aruba, in the southern Caribbean).
True to Golding’sprophetic vision, by the mid- 1960s Western Europe, including the redoubtable British Isles, had begun a hedonistic rear march into the hypnotic ancient land of Anything Goes. In the Netherlands (AKA Holland), the Dutch even would coin a word to describe their retreat to moral anarchy: gedoogcultuur, “the culture of permissiveness.” (Remember, these are the same people who a few decades earlier had contributed to English language the term “Dutch uncle,” that is, a stern, relatively decent mentor who tries to keep others on the straight and narrow path.)

Here, as Golding predicted with clarity, are some terminal, cancerous, liberal sores that today fester on Holland’s once-traditional and healthy body politic:

Scantily clad prostitutes laze about in urban storefronts so that sex-hungry passersby can window-shop for a steamy middle-of-the-day liaison. Meantime, the Sex Workers Union (blue-collar hookers) is pushing the Dutch government to allow the pimpish labor bosses to crank up in Amsterdam’s Schiphol Airport the fastfood-restaurant-sounding “YumYum Caviar Club,” which actually would be a bordello for horny in-transit travelers. (One of the Netherlands’ biggest imports has become “whordes,”so to speak, of attractive young East European women to replace the aging pool of native Dutch prostitutes.)
Local and tourist pedophiles, the most unrepentent of dirty old men, roam the land with impunity since the 1990 national “reform” legislation lowered the age of sexual consent to 12 (think of your own children and grandchildren when they were that age, one year shy of being even a teenager).
The grossest pornography available can be purchased in chain grocery stores, just down the aisle from tofu and skim milk, and graphic nudity is a big hit on “family hour” prime-time, through-the-air television.
Marriage is a legal right of homosexuals, even if it includes serial infidelity on both sides.
“Dutch treat” has become another perverted expression, no longer meaning that two people at the same table simply pay for their own share of the food or drink bill. The only Dutch “treat” today is physically, mentally and socially ruinous, and exemplified by 210 Amsterdam “coffee shops” that really are dens for foreign and domestic marijuana users, and 75 “bars” for hash heads. Holland has become the drug capital of Europe and is blamed by Britain and France for exporting at least 80% of the heroin marketed into those countries, and 100% of the trade in nightmarish psychedelic substance Ecstasy.Meantime, absorbed with systemic liberal guilt over its colonial past, the Netherlands has opened the floodgates for immigrants from Indonesia, the Islamic colony in Asia which the Dutch ruled for three
Meantime, absorbed with systemic liberal guilt over its colonial past, the Netherlands has opened the floodgates for immigrants from Indonesia, the Islamic colony in Asia which the Dutch ruled for three centuries. This has resulted in one million Muslims (6% of Netherlands’ population) living in little Holland (slightly larger than Maryland), whose four largest cities now count Muslims under age 14 as the majority of their youth. Such immigration also has resulted in an outbreak of deadly tit-for-tat terrorism between Indonesians and a handful of unapologetically militant Dutch nationalists.
All these sad details of Dutch decay are important because it goes a long way toward explaining what is happening, and not happening, in Dutch-owned Aruba, an island speck that is a world away geographically but only a heartbeat away culturally from the motherland.

No longer a colony but a full-fledged political division of the distant Netherlands, Aruba is a mélange of 70,000 multicultural souls on an island off the South American coast about the size of Washington, DC.

Like Mother Holland, Aruba boasts that its crime rate is “very low.” Also like Mother Holland, however, Aruba has a low crime rate in large part because so little tawdry and outright dangerous activity in its laissez-faire environment actually qualifies as a crime; furthermore, if such activity is criminal, the police tradition in many cases (based on the Dutch model) is to wink at the perps and head for the nearest Dunkin’van Donuts for a quick sugar-fix. In the wake of the highly reported May 20 disappearance of teenage American tourist Natalee Holloway, USA Today has reported this less-than-professional Aruban attitude toward crime statistics:

“Detailed crime statistics are hard to come by: In 2003, the most recent year with available data, there were 4,236 crimes, though no specifics on those against tourists. According to Aruba's attorney general, five homicides were reported last year. But police have not provided a breakdown of offenses since 1995, says Martijn Balkestein of the Central Bureau of Statistics.”

A more frightening portrait of Dutch/Aruban police incompetence in dealing with “noncriminal criminals” emerged in an Associated Press story that details how Natalee’skinfolk in Alabama, not the Karibbean Kops, nailed the prime suspect, the playboy son of an influential local official:

Was she a Super Hero?

.
Yes, Sunfreak,
Thanks!  That is a very good explanation of what is wrong with them and why they think we are also like they are.

 :shock:

She contacted the FBI because she lives in the United States. At least that is what I presume given the fact she called them first. :wink:

Scared Monkeys truly is the very best site around ~ Red and Tom and Mrs. Red have Hearts of Gold for having this site for us.  Klaas is truly a class act ~ a Heart of Gold and the patience of a Saint ~ and artistic and funny to boot!  Red's Front Page Posts are read and quoted on Natalee boards everywhere.  And twice now the Monkeys have gathered together for a full day of prayer ~ and the second time even included people who don't even post here!

This place is a refuge for me.  Yeah, I'm sitting back and just mostly agreeing with the Monkeys ~ I mostly post OT stuff, some graphics and just say hello here ~ everything that can and should be said on the case has already been said by one of the other Monkeys.

BTW ~ the Monkeys are truly THE BEST POSTERS that I've ever had the pleasure of posting with.

I am so very thankful that I don't have to make posts defending Natalee or Beth or anyone in Natalee's family ~ thankful that I don't have to post in defense of the major players who are helping the family ~ thankful that I don't have to defend myself for boycotting Aruba and the Netherlands and the products that the Netherlands exports ~ thankful that I post with people who care enough to put a Natalee bumper sticker on their cars ~ and who are angry enough to put a Boycott Aruba bumper sticker on there too!

And truly thankful that those who do not support the family, who oppose all help for the family ~ will not find a home here.

Yeah, I post sometimes at BFN and now at PFN ~ but there really is no place like the Monkey Cage ~ and I can't even be bothered reading at any other sites ~ I don't even want their garbage to be filtered through my mind.

Right out of Marvel comics??   :shock:

.

Thanks for the heads up!!

Didnt Jossy have some connection to the gardner witness? Maybe we could find out more from him.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Heck no!!  NO WAY!  :lol:

Make that four +

so she lives in the US but just happened to be in Aruba the night they killed Natalee??

Oh blah, i really don't know.

I just assumed reading these posts that if she called the FBI she was American. I could be way off base.

Just a hunch, that's all.

oh.  It would be pretty tough for her to provide an alibi for Deepak if she was in the US at the time.  Thats why I assumed she was an Aruban.

I almost completly agree with you there, Strike...

But ~ since we're not on the beach anymore ~ the most logical place for Natalee's death ~ at least to me ~ is the VDsloot compound.

And I think that Joran ran for Paulus while Natalee was dying ~ seeking his advice.

I think it was Paulus who decided that it was better for them to just let her die ~ to not take her for help.  That he would take care of getting rid of her body.

Yes, and i can see where you would go that way.
And i guess when i read FBI i just thought of USA.

Yeah, but I'd believe Deepak to be stupid enough to ask a woman who lives in another COUNTRY to provide an alibi for him... :roll:

And who said he couldn't be confused with a Rocket Scientist??

From the Skeeter's tapes regarding the gardener and Deepaks call to a girl in the US:

Jamie Skeeters:  Right after the guy called that testified against you... the gardener. You made a call. Not
                             a telephone call, but you made a call to a girl and asked her to be your alibi.  That girl
                             went right to the FBI. She's scared that she's going to get mixed up and thrown in jail and
                             be arrested. And they recorded your voice on a (unintelligible) call.  They've got you
                             calling for an alibi.

Deepak Kalpoe:   But, I didn't call anyone.

Jamie Skeeters:  I heard your voice.  I mean, I saw the voice on the telephone call message.

Deepak Kalpoe:  And, where was the call number?

Jamie Skeeters:  I can find out.  But, anyway, that girl..they have... the  FBI has your. You did it, not
                            on the phone, but you did it... phone call through the internet.  Anyway...

Deepak Kalpoe:  It's just not possible, because I didn't.
                             (chuckles)
                            I didn't.

Jamie Skeeters: You may have called somebody, somehow, insinuating you wanted them... or they were
                            wearing a wire.  One or the other, I'm not sure how they did it.  But, I do know after that...
                            that guy testified, you allegedly.  I don't know the true story. You called this girl and said I'm
                            going to need you to help me with an alibi.  She... got scared... went to the Feds. The
                            justice system knows about it and I know you're going to get picked up. And they are
                            going to use that against you as your scared alibi.  It's not good for you, guy.  It's not good
                            at all what's happening.  They say that you were running scared and you called, saying
                            you need help or something. I can get the conversation; it's gonna take me a couple days.

Deepak Kalpoe:   Are parts anonymous?  Or all of  it or...?

Jamie Skeeters:  I don't know.  I just tell you what I found out from my source. That other... the mother knows, her
                            attorneys know, the justice know and the police know.  I got first (unintelligible) and this girl
                            here is tipping them.  Whatever, that family knows.  As a matter of fact, I may go do the
                            last kiss you know, and say "Hi  here's... here's, if I can help you, give me a call.," just
                            so I can see what they know. That's usually how I work on that side. If they a...  Anyhow.
                            It's a good friend of yours and she's scared for her well being.  So, if you go back and
                            threaten her, if it did happen, they will snap you up and (unintelligible).  So, because the feds
                            know and people know and they, they...

Deepak Kalpoe:   And who is this lady friend?

Jamie Skeeters:  I will find out  I will find out, for..

Deepak Kalpoe:   Because, it's not true.

That is an excellent point THird strike.
ANd riddle me this......I wonder where or how he came about to know this girl/woman if she did/does indeed live here in the US.

So many questions, so few answers.

I dunno about rocket scientist, but I do believe Deepak is the smartest out of all of the pimp punks.

My vote goes to Satish.

I was kinda glad for that whole long post, though, Anna ~ I was 4 pages behind ~ and now, without hardly having to read anything ~ I'm only 3 pages behind...    :roll:

C'mon now.  Deepak is probably the dumbest (IMO)...with his brother a close second.  I believe Joran to be of much higher intelligence then the K2's.  That doesn't mean he hasn't made some VERY stupid moves along the way (the interviews one glarinf example).  But, I think he's most likely the most educated of them all.

I beliebe if it wasn't for his lawyer, Deepak would have sank himself LONG ago!  He would have taken that polygraph test (from J. Skeeters), and the rest would have been history.  It'd be VERY easy to get to Deepak if his lawyer wasn't around.  All it would take is $$$...

WOW klass thats great, thank you !!!!


this whole transcript tells me that Deepak contacted this girl through a method that he thought was untraceable. It must have been through the internet somehow.  He was shocked that they had that communiction with the girl.

Why would he say things like this if he didnt contact that girl?

Deepak Kalpoe: And, where was the call number?

Deepak Kalpoe: Are parts anonymous? Or all of it or...?

I would love to know what satish has to say... and why of all of them is he the one that never gets cornered... if I were him I would be ill for having to take the year again at school....

Deepak's behavior is very suspicious, but I still think the gardener's story is probably bogus.  Not to sound too CSI, but people lie, evidence doesn't.  And it's very hard to reconcile Deepak being at the pond at 2:30 with the computer and phone record evidence.  Not only is Deepak logging on at 2:00, but at 3:15 you have Joran sending him casual "I'm home" and "What's up" TMs, indicating that at that point Deepak did not know anything was wrong.  The only realistic way I see for the gardener's story to be true is if it was actually Satish in the car not Deepak.  But that doesn't seem likely to me, why would Deepak go home and let Joran and Satish have all the fun with Natalee. If Deepak was home at 2:00 than I think Satish probably was too.  

Based on electronic records and polis car tape I have come down to two scenarios:

1) 2K are innocent, Joran alone raped and murdered Natalee after 2K left him alone with her on beach  

2) Joran raped Natalee on beach, then after learning from Joran that he'd left her there, 2K came back and raped, murdered, and disposed of her without Joran's knowledge

Oh yeah, Joran is the smart one all right - running around doing interviews and running his mouth...... :roll:

Look at the way Deepak completely outwits Joran in the back of the police car

Ok that part has always struck me as odd... guys don't do that kind of thing... send TM's they are home... I think he was saying she's gone... or something to that effect and in words that could not be held against him... JMO

I am sooooo  glad I just read this in time for Greta to begin ~ I'll record it...  I so much want to say "tape" it  :lol: 2 generations maybe for tape to stop meaning record...

i could not agree with you more!!!

The only way a guy may do that is if it is to a female, a girlfriend,wife or even just a friend.

But no way would guys do that.

Or should I say, it is unlikely.

I agree it's odd, but my take on it is a little different.  I don't think it was some kind of code or anything like that.  I think possibly he was trying to act like nothing was wrong and trying a little too hard.

I have wondered a lot if the TMs were not some kind of pre-arranged code or shorthand, a way of telling Deepak that "It's done".

Whatever "it" is.

I STILL think there is just too much mystery in all this to be accounted for if it was just a simple case of murder or accident. There is some BIG, DARK, UGLY thing here that is being covered up that has ramifications beyond those of the murder of 1 girl.

I didn't say he was the "smart one" at all.  Rather, I said (IMO) that he was smarter then the others...that's it.  And, I clarified my statement to include the fact I believed him to be VERY stupid for doing the interviews.  So, take it for what it's worth...strictly my opinion...

As for Deepak outwitting Joran (or anyone, for that matter)...that dude couldn't outwit a rock!  All I heard in those tapes is attempts by both sides (Joran vs the K2's) to jab at each other.  It was like watching a fly keep bumping in to a mirror thinking it was open space.  It was useless and pathetic by both sides.  All we got out of it is the fact that ONE of them was lying...that's it!  If you call that "outwitting", then maybe you shouldn't put that application in to "Survivor" anytime soon...;)

it has always bugged me... but I admit I pick up on really strange stuff... and think/know there is something there... but I never get to what

just like the fact that in the CA interview Joran makes the point to say I called Deepak to pick me up at the beach but he didn't.... he interjects into questions that weren't even relavent to that fact.... and then licks his lips...("tasting the lie"... thanks Hat)... and I wonder... what is the significance of this???  that story then changes in his Greta interview... we all know he lies but what about this particular (stupid) point???

 :D   :idea:   :wink:  I have to also put my money on Satish -- after all, he is 21 and still in Highschool. His mom says he is interested in becoming a Doctor. (you think we have a healthcare crisis.-!?!)  :wink:

exactly what I was thinking.... ok.. guys... would you at that age do that with your friends??

I should clarify, I think the person he was trying to fool with that act was Deepak.  I don't think it even occured to him the polis would ever be reading those TMs, because his "I'm home" TM contradicts his initial HI story.

[quote="mrs. red
Or should I say, it is unlikely.[/quote]

it has always bugged me... but I admit I pick up on really strange stuff... and think/know there is something there... but I never get to what

just like the fact that in the CA interview Joran makes the point to say I called Deepak to pick me up at the beach but he didn't.... he interjects into questions that weren't even relavent to that fact.... and then licks his lips...("tasting the lie"... thanks Hat)... and I wonder... what is the significance of this???  that story then changes in his Greta interview... we all know he lies but what about this particular (stupid) point???[/quote]

Tasting the lie? Oh Hat, that is a good one, wherever you are.

if thats all you got out of those transcripts than all 3 of them outwitted you (is that where the 3 strikes come from?) :)

it has always bugged me... but I admit I pick up on really strange stuff... and think/know there is something there... but I never get to what

just like the fact that in the CA interview Joran makes the point to say I called Deepak to pick me up at the beach but he didn't.... he interjects into questions that weren't even relavent to that fact.... and then licks his lips...("tasting the lie"... thanks Hat)... and I wonder... what is the significance of this???  that story then changes in his Greta interview... we all know he lies but what about this particular (stupid) point???[/quote]

Tasting the lie? Oh Hat, that is a good one, wherever you are.[/quote]

Hat has told me that he lurks and reads w/o signing in sometimes... so maybe he's around.... but isn't that a perfect description of it??

That's a good point wreck!!  Satish is like the Aruban "Rerun"!  Remember him...from that show "What's Happening"?  Kept flunking so much, he was the only dude in High School with grey hair, and a hip replacement!!  By the time Satish gets his diploma, he'll be using a walker and be breathing through a ventilator...

OMG... y'all are kidding me aren't you???

Oh, you got jokes, huh?  I guess I deserved it...;)

Well if it makes you feel better, I think we all agree they are all dumb as a box of rocks, just areguing about the 3 iq points that seperates that 3 of them.  :lol:

Kid with you??  No way!!  Mamma Strike didn't raise no dummies... :wink:

Hat if you are out there:

I'm stealing your line!    :wink:

That's my point blah!  If two of them had an IQ id 12, and the third one had an IQ of 14, wouldn't the one with 14 be smarter?  But, in comparison, they're ALL dumb!  That's what I was initially trying to say...

just playin   :)

mrs. red, guys WOULDN'T do that.

ESPECIALLY not guys who don't even care or worry about letting their parents know their whereabouts... or even have no problem sneaking out after midnight.

The ONLY way Joran does that is if Deepak needs that info as part of some pre-arranged agenda. Joran couldn't care less where Deepak was, nor Deepak care less where Joran was- there is not a shred of loyalty or humanity between two guys like that in the least.

No need for a rousing rendition of kumbaya here.

Third and Blah just playin :lol:

O/T....... Jaq... Glavine looks terrible... and you know as a (former) Braves fan.(don't live in ATL anymore... root for the home team and all).. I never forgave him.... :oops:  that was like Damon going to the NYY....

The thing that bothers me about those two (Deepak and Joran) is the fact that by all accounts, they weren't very close friends.  Sure, they hung out.  But, not close enough to spend time in jail for...even for an hour!  That's why, I DO believe all 3 had some level of involvement.  The real question is, who's in deeper?  My $$ is on Joran...

Understood Mrs.  i get ya.

oh yeah, I totally agree.  But if you lined all 3 of them up on the side of the road and had a dipshit contest, Joran would win hands down !!






LOL  ok i'll stop now.

I don't think it was at his house. I think they went to the house to get Freddy. I also think that the intent was to rape.
Do you think a beach is not romantic enough ?
Sand in your pants ?
Think young guys and quickies.
This wasn't about Joran or anyone else being attracted to Natalee.
It was about control, sex and humiliation.
Foreplay is a shot of 151 rum. With or without drugs.
Get what you want, dump them. It's the last night in Aruba for the girl.
When a rape is the intent the less info the girl has about you the better.
Deepak had his car in the back of C & C's.
Deepak, Satish and Joran did not hang out together in C & C's.
If someone had not seen Natalee in the car after leaving, who would be the wiser ?  
The lie would have stuck. I don't know who Natalee is says Joran.
Jug called him out on that one right on the spot.  
They did " this " 20 x before.

But, can you sing just the first line of it Jacque?  I'd love to hear you sing...;)

HI EVERYONE -- klaas -- look at my new nickname!!  I'm not GretaRocks anymore!!

This is the way i see it too.

I think it'd have to go in to OVERTIME to decide that one... :roll:

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Mi mi mi.....

I knew a girl named niki, i guess you could say she was a sex...oops wrong song :oops:

Hey everyone!!  It's Windor - formerly Gretarocks!! :lol:  :lol:

can someone go back to Melody letting' the cat out of the bag that Freddy was? or the Sloots that night?

why couldn't it have been Freddy on the internet at 3am?

just watching with my sistah... and rootin for the other team.. :lol:

Yeah, why not?

 Yep.

If the guys are not "close" friends, why in the world would Joran even HAVE Deepak's contact info? Joran obviously had communicated w/Deepak before. They were NOT just 2 ships passing in the night.

They had to have had some kind of agenda that night... at least along the lines of the Stefy-Mill routine, if not more involved than that.

You need to fine tune that....

Windsor Rocks! :lol:

wow, that taught me a lesson; things can quickly change

could have been Paulus too

In the immortal words of Borat (of Ali G fame)...

"I Like"!!  

Wait, that's the song about the girl who likes to read magazines in a hotel lobby, right?   :wink:

and that is why the stupid littlest pieces bother me...  and if you take the small little utterances, we did this 20x... you know that all 3 are involved... and I think SCroes, Freddy, GW... all have some involvement...

lol; I'm just happy to be Windsor right now; shewwww   :lol:

Satish could have been the one at home at the Kalpoes.
Deepak uses Joran's phone.
It is just the phone that can be placed and the computer at the Kalpoes.
Satish is the one who has school the next day. Deepak starts work late.
Don't know what Freddy does.

klaasend, BTW, is there any word on when we can get our avatars back? They make it much easier to find each other's posts.

Like I said before...his lawyer surely is!  But, not him...

I love Ali G.

Ah yes , that is one in the same.

Call her up whenever you want to - - - -! :lol:

Only Prince !  What a wordsmith. :lol:

but again, please explain to me the comment about Melanie/Melody (sorry about her name); what did she say? how did it come about?

Man's a GENUIS!!  What else can be said???

Yes there are inconsistancies about that too.... and let's face it... there seems to be shall we say a little racism among the Dutch on the island... (I say this because they tried to pin this on MJ and Abraham) how would these two have crossed paths??

In a NY minute... good to see you GR/W... can I call you that :lol:

Amen.

yeah i'm the same way with the stupid little pieces.  

I was reading Jorans interviews earlier tonight (the chris coumo one and and some other one) and man, is it full of these little things.  I mean every response to every question was just a blatent lie.

I had to quit reading because it was just getting me too wound up.

yep, I guess that can be our lil secret; haha

That is a question for Tom, sorry I have no idea.

Not Klaasend, but I can tell you that they are working on it... A lot... and I miss our avatars too

If when they come back, I make my avatar a little red x, will you know it's me? :roll:

People do that when they are just making it up as they go.

And when they are having to cover one set of lies with a new set.

There..is this better??  :lol:  :lol:

I can always find my sistah silly!  LOL...

now y'all have that song playing in my head...

Theoretically yes.  But not realistically.  It's not plausable that Satish would be online talking to Deepak's friends pretending to be Deepak, and then on top of that, after going thru so much trouble to set up a computer alibi for himself, Deepak contradicts his own alibi in his first statement. when he tells polis he didn't get home and log on until 2:40.

Catchy little diddy! :lol:

I still say that if you take all the interviews... and put them together and pick out those little slips... i.e. we drove by my house, I called deepak and he said no... and then the next interview... sharks, shoes, etc... we could get to some truths that are told unintentionally...

yeah, and it was just killing me that the interviewers were treating him with kid gloves.  So many opportunities to nail his sorry ass and they just them slip by.

Heading out for a while. See y'all later tonight.

I totally agree with you, Mrs Red; and the more Joran talked/lied, the more it says that he was confronted with certain evidence, such as stopping by his house (because he found out someone saw them on the road, ArubaGirl's friend or family member)

but if that's true, then why did he say they were at the Marriott beach area, or the fishermen's hut area -- was that when they broke into it?

ps...

The girls Natalee was with in the Casino, they thought Joran was an exchange student from Holland. They was no overt contact between Joran and Natalee in the casino or at C & C's.
No one " saw "  Natalee get in the car.
The reason they were on to Joran so quick is because Beth looked at the videos in the casino within 24 hours.

and could Paulus' comment that he picked "them' up at 4am be Freddy?

I'm very suspicious of Freddy

was the exchange student from Holland on vacation part of the we did this 20x?  was going to CnC's 30 minutes before closing time part of the 20x.... a shot of 151 laced with ghb?   tourist girls that got raped and were too ashamed to come forward...and left and prayed no one was the wiser?

I mean... he didn't talk to Natalee in the Casino... and in 30 minutes she goes from dancing with her friend(s) to waving him over, doing belly shots, 151 and finds him so fascinating she wants to leave with him after 30 minutes????? this happened 20x??  then the whole scummy thing starts at CnC's.... IMO

I'm convinced that Freddy is 100% involved.  Deepak sealed the deal when he said on tape that Freddy needs to tell the truth.  The truth about what?

Sorry if it's been mentioned, I haven't read tonight yet.  But Greta just said a new arrest in Aruba?  coming up soon.

oh, that's right, San; I had forgotten that; I was just going with my gut that Freddy is involved

and what about Deepak saying "your own father"

to me, that screams involvement before the fact, not just cover up

prolly Jossy; did you read SurfGirl's post on PFN?  sounds like JR to me

God Love 'em for all the hard work they do.  It's a shame it's happened so much recently..  Any thoughts of looking into another hosting company?  With better contingency?

I haven't had a chance to read anything, I was just signing on at the same time I was listening to Hannity and Colmes.  Greta came on to say what was coming up on her show.  "New arrest in Aruba".....

I have to be honest... when the site crashes, I don't ask too many questions... they get testy with me...  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

The root of everything is Joran, if Joran wasn't there that night we wouldn't be here talking about Natalee..  There were others but Joran is the root and I believe the crime happen at the house.. He isn't scared of his parents or and he is the head of the snake..

I'm curious on what JQK will have to say tonight and my only fear is that Greta will have Julia on too.. There goes my dinner...

I want to hear more about the poster from BFN that is saying Jossy????  did i hear that right??

well, good night, all; gonna get ready to watch Greta

formerly known as GretaRocks

now Windsor

 8)

Mrs Red, that's how rumors get started; lemme see if I can find the post

ok after i hit submit and < < 2x... I didn't read that right the first time...  :oops:  :oops:  nevermind...

I think this is what down:
Alana sees Natalee and Joran is walking behing her, not with her.
Deepak circles CnC's 3 times trying to wait out the taxi crowd so they aren't seen with Natalee.  

They drop Satish at home who signs on the internet.

They go to Joran's apartment and get Freddy. They drive to the lighthouse as they wait for the drugs to kick in. Natalee was verbal in the car leaving CnC's and the drugs needed time to work.  But something goes wrong, maybe Natalee is getting sick inthe car.

They drive to the pond to to wash the vomit  away and they are spotted by the Gardener.

They cook up a plan for an alibi, and then drive to the vdS home.  They decide to take Natalee into Joran's apt where they leave her alone for a few minutes.  Joran & Freddie walk Deepak back to the car where they talk about the plan some more.  Joran heading back to the apt catches Natalee on the phone, and starts beating her in a fit of rage and rapes her.  Somehow, he fatally injures her. Maybe he struck her and she fell against something, like a corner of a piece of furniture, injuring her head.  

Joran gets Daddy involved, but Natalee is fatally injured.  She is not given any emergency care and dies. Paulus makes the plans for the disposal of the body. He pays someone to dispose of the body, but they dump her at the rocks instead.

She is found by ALE, and disposed of again.

I think this time she went into the crypts in the cemetary.

In January,  some crypts are destroyed to cover up the breaking into the crypt was Natalee was placed.  Aruba plans to bury her in the dunes and then have the FBI cadaver dogs find her.  But the FBI foils that plan when they refuse to send the dogs b/c ALE won't disclose the source of the mysterious tip.

What they've done with the body now is anyone's guess.

Winsor what did you do with our GretaRocks?  Give her back... :D

I completely relate, because that is what I do for a living.  It's a complete bummer!  So they have my sympathy!

Mrs Red -- below is what SurfChic wrote on PFN; she had only posted two times at this point; that's why I thought it might be JR.  I don't know how to quote, but it's on page 24 of "Carlos the Colombian" thread:

Most everyone here in aruba knew Carlos was lying!!! He was after the reward money. He's got a long record of drug arrests, like the crackhead from the landfill that Jossy believed. He'll be deported after he does his time for his latest offense. They knew he was lying almost immediately because he said he called his wife and it was checked out and it never happened. His story was always changing and was just too sensational to ever be believed. Jacobs and Adolpho called him "Mansur's MANURE!!!" in reference to all the lying witnesses that Jossy creates, intimidates or fabricates. No one here believes anything or anyone remotely tied to Jossy anymore. He's become the butt of jokes at the local comedy clubs as well. Certain lawyers who want to remain nameless, are considering legal action against him for witness tampering and intimidation. They've said KJ agrees with them and before she leaves (end of 2006) she'll "take care" of Jossy. Most of us can't wait!!!!

Another Refugee, IMO

Hi all, please be patient with me, new to the discussion group...

Seeing the discussion regarding the gardener....

I have always been confused about what exactly the gardener is said to have seen.  I have heard that he reported seeing all 3 suspects in Deepak's car near the pond at about 3 AM.  I have also heard that he is said to have stated that he saw 2 of the suspects, one definitely Joran and a third person 'trying to hide in the car (slumping down).  There have been other reports involving various combinations of who he definitely identified etc.  I have seen lots of arguments discrediting this witness saying he was driving to fast to have seen anyone.  What is the right story?

If he did only see 2 people upright and a third 'slumped over', the third could have been Natalee, freeing up one of the brothers to be at home typing away on the computer to bolster an alibi.

Mrsred I didn't do it whatever I did...  

Has Easywriter heard anything going on?  I think its kinda of interesting that JQK is doing Greta.

ah, Ter, you'll like me better  :wink:

Welcome to SM Bob in FL!  Nice to have new input and thoughts!

Mrs Red - - I sent you a letter today.  I had to chuckle when I heard Jimmy Buffett's Margaritaville as I sat in the car sealing the envelope and putting the stamp on it.  Then on the way home from the post office I heard Freebird.

I love Lynerd Skynrd.  Southern rock n roll was great back in the early 70's.  Lynerd Skynrd.  The Allman brothers.  Jo Jo Gunn.

Bob of Florida your not the Florida Power and Light Bob are you?  :D   Anyway welcome to Scared Monkeys..

I was going on my gut also in the beginning but once he opened his mouth he confirmed it.  Once I heard Freddy made that video and then when I saw them walking Freddy into the police station I said to myself this kid is weird.

ok; now I'm reallllly goin' to get ready to watch Greta; later Monkeys

I guess I better explain, Florida Power and Light has this guy named Bob going around asking how to save electric on the commericals here.. You never see him just hear and see the people responding to his questions.. So I guess only those that live here in Florida will get my question.. Sorry..

Scubajap.

Has anyone seen or heard from BTGirl or Angie? I sure miss them!  :roll:

Nope, not scubajap.  She does not write that coherently, so I take that back.  She needs a few lessons in fourth-grade language.  This person is probaby Bon Dia.

I've been in email discusstion with BT, she's taking a break for a few days.

Than Who Witnessed The Witness Driving To FAST ...............

 :roll:

Greta opens with flooding.

Should be Holloway news coming up.

Oh Ok Dihannah1.. Thanks. Can you ask her to come back? I really miss her.

First Three Game Losing Streak Of The Season ................

 :roll:

Please tell her she needs to cut short her break and get back here! :wink:  :D  :D

I did and she will..... we all miss her and Ang.

Amen tcumom!  :wink:  Now we need to find Angie... Sis!!!! Where are you!!!!

JQK said this new witness is being charged with one or two things.  Either perjury or extortion.

I sure hope so.. the board seems different without them.  :roll:

Yes, now I'm even more bummed out!  I'm feeling pestimistic again, no solving this case, dammit!

Widgey...Our boys lost three in a row.

But we're still 10 games in first.

Big series starts tomorrow!

Arrest

John Q. Kelly:

New charges and witness, this is Carlos the Columbian, looking for the reward money.

I found the story inplausible, could not be corroberated, her story. Karin found it plausible.

Apparently he just admitted that he lied, and that is why he is being held. Being charge with one of two things, either perjury or extortion.

Quickk version, his story was that he saw someone murder and strangle natalee and he saw them get rid of the body.

He has been in custody about 6 or 8 weeks.

I think they were holding him under the guise of illegal immigration., At least she followed up on it, I won't criticize her for that, but something that implausible you cant get too excited over it.

No lead, no new leads it has been very quiet. I have not heard anything . we are now hopin that the civil suit will proceed in NY.

Ready to be decided soon if it will stay in ny or get tossed.

It should be announced soon, it is a good sign that they are taking this much time to consider all this info.

Ok greta, it's not a bad sign.....

I have a jaded view, she has not dismissed the case yet so that is a good sign.

The last search, the ocean search was where this eye witness supposedly saw the body.

I think the searches are over.

Sorry for not getting it earlier... and I hate to ask but what is PFN?  and Greta 's little chuckle... about the case going forward... and she doesn't dare do that to tacky joe....

Remember Joran Lied As A Witness ..............

Wheres The Perjury Charge ??

Oh I Forgot He Was'nt Under Oath .........

Ms Janssen Conveniently Forgot To Swear In Her FIRST Witnesses .........

 :roll:

Hi, Widget, good to see you here.  Hoping the girls and your bride are doing fine.

I think the reason Arleen said we do not understand their system is because she is exactly right.  No one undertands it.  They make it as they go.

terryd270:

Hi..No I’m not the FPL Bob...wish I were...maybe I would get a cut rate on power....

I’m in Clearwater and have to pay homage to Progress Energy (actually the only progress associated with their energy are rate increases).

By the way, has Carlos the Columbian been discredited now or is this just another troll story.

He has officially been discredited per JQK.  He has admitted to KJ that he lied about the entire thing.  He is now being detained for lying as a witness and possibly extortion.

Hi Bob in Florida!!  Welcome!

Karin Janssen Believed The Storytelling Colombian ..........

Shows Where Her Head Is At ...........

Anyone & Anything Outside Of Joran Is Believable For Her ..........

She Does'nt Seem To Want To Get Her Head Outta Her Arse ......

 8)

Wasn't that nice of her to do such a favor for the psychopath.

John Q. Kelly pretty much proved him for what he was :

A fraud.

Just out for the money.

He apparently conned karin Jansen into believing his story.

kelly never thought he was plausible from the beginning.

They change the laws like they change their underwear.

Sure looked like Scuba to me.

Hi Tyler ..............

Alls Quiet On The Western Front ..............

 8)

more often actually.....

besoes widgey!!  good to see you...

What makes you think they change their underwear as often as their laws?

is scuba jap the dark haired reporter that was in the Vanity Fair article?  how could JK "get" jossy... what a crock... :roll:

Yes, Angela, the one who describes herself as very similar to Elizabeth Taylor. :roll:  :lol:  :roll:

Oh Mrs Red I had a server die on me today and I have a ton of work ahead of me now.

Poor decisions I've made in coding in the past for what I considered better performance has me recoding for changes due to the crash.

Course better backup discipline also would have helped.

Carnut...............remember,,,when she would rite like this; to make her point............that she hated Beth,,,and everybody else,,,but her own beautiful self,,,,who had so many social events to attend,,,and so many.....lacivious nights on the ............beach.

Perjury?  :lol:  :lol:

If they make perjury a crime in Aruba it will become a penal colony.

Mrs. Red,  "You Have Mail"

Hola Mrs Red .........

Abrazos & Besos ...............

 8)

I thought everyone on that island was related in someway.. I guess Carlos the Colombian didn't have any relatives in the police force or the Dutch family tree..

I didn't like the feeling I got that JQK was putting so much in getting justice through the civil case..  I was thinking this was more of a nusance then really a way of getting justice.. We think their criminal cases are close try to find their financial trail.. I just didn't feel good to hear JQK saying that they were hoping for the civil case to move forward for justice..These are just my thoughts..

Well, I am not going to touch that one but I am glad your spelling is good. :wink:

I think that if she believed the Columbian witness, it was b/c she does want to prosecute Joran.

Hee!

Yes I do, but I think I remember some more lenghty posts with similar point of view and descriptions of events as was posted without the ....... and social event info.

The Only Way She Could Think He Was Describing Joran Is If Joran

Went To His House To Get Bleach For His Hair .....

 :roll:

Taylergal,

I remember scubajap and how she was an expert on everything..  How she acted exactly like Julia in the way she would say I will be back later I have to do a report or something.. She was saying that she used to be a dive master and was always hinting that Natalee might of drowned.. So scubajap isn't Julia?  They sure sound the same to me..

That would be Angela M.  I've read that she and SJ are the same but I'm not sure, I read a posting by Angela someone found on an Internet psychic's site and it didn't read like SJ.  Also SJ doesn't seem quite as full of venom towards Natalee as Angela did in that VF article, I've actually seen her defend Natalee a few times. Someone suggested that SJ might acually be a shared nic.

Whew, took me forever to find this:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/Munzehofer.jpg)

Light hair, dark hair.  Thin, medium, stocky.  It's all in a person's own perspective.  Maybe to a dark-haired Columbian, Joran's hair is light.

Klaas, is there anything you don't have?  You are soooo awesome with pics and resources!  What would we do without YOU!

Hey I can see TerryD's and my avatars, tonight.  :D  :D  :D

Sounded like scubajap to me too! If Jacobs and Richardson are belittling him -- we need to SERIOUSLY re-evaluate him again. I don't know why everyone is so believing of ALE and KG again.
The more Aruba "discredits" someone -- the more inclined I am to believe that "someone" .

Never thought that scuba was JR.

There was a poster on scrux named *witness* that sure did, though. :wink:

Good night Monkeys!

A Belt & What Looked Like Natalees Top Never Sent For Forensics ...But..

They Send This Evidence To The NFI Provided By Lying Witness ..........

Karin Janssen Is On PVDS's Side ...............

Actions Speak Louder Than Words ..................

 8)

To WidgetTheMidget:

Regarding my earlier post on the gardener drive to fast...the most notable reference for that remark came from Isaac Chin and it book "the Natalee Holloway Case".  Chin is an Aruban resident, retired engineer, and writer of very obscure books.  In his book on the case (don't even think about wasting your money like I did and buying it), supposed he retraced the route the gardener took and tried to tie it to a time line and concluded the gardener would have to have been traveling at approximately 70 miles an hour to get from his house to where he reported seeing the 3 amigos in the car by the pond in the time he reported.

Wow there is another person (not related to case) trying to get rich off this case?  And an Aruban, but thanks for the warning!  Makes me sick!

Isn't Julia Renfro writing a get rich book too?

She is no Elizabeth Taylor :lol:
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/Scuba.jpg)

Welcome Bob In Florida ..........

Well 70 MPH Seems To Be The NOrmal Speed In Aruba .........

Deepak Supposedly Logged On His Computer At 2 AM ..........

After Going Around The Block 3 Times .............

Going By Jorans ...........

Driving To The Lighthouse ..............

Dropping The Idiot Off At The Marriot ..........

Than Driving Home & Arriving At 2 AM ...............

Deepak Would Have To Be Traveling At 105 MPH .........

Without Stops ................

 :roll:

Seriously, these kids aren't normal.. I know if I was a kid and there was this kid that I knew had done things like this before and I heard him bragging about his conquest and stuff like that.. I would be $250.000.00 richer with a few hours with that kid (Joran).. I would think there would be a lot of kids on that island that would want to collect the $250.000.00...  Are they that afraid of getting arrested or being killed..  I assume that JQK has informants and people over there getting this type of information.. What about Jossy he knows the right people to get this kind of information.. How can the PIMPS have that much control, there got to be another gang on the island that would find this a perfect time to get rid of the PIMPS..  I guess I just putting this out there, frustration...

No, they are not the same one but SJ's brother-in-law owns one of those ski rental places.  I was going to check to see if it was the one where the guy went to get his ski equipment and never returned.

Julia is the editor and Angela is her lackey.

Wonder if she's been married as much as ET?

 :lol:  :lol: We were looking for the same picture.

 

no Julia is bon dia/ glenda/ ... I forgot her other name :oops:  and scuba I think works with her..

Yes Terry Its True .... They Are ................

The Children Of The Damned .....................

 8)

Oh, yeah.  I forgot one minor detail. :wink:  Correspondence.

I agree Terry,  I always thought $$ talked...  Wonder what is holding 'somebody who knows' from talking.  Very interesting...

Perjury ??? You can lie all you want in Aruba. Just ask Joran. You can lie
to the police, you can lie and interfere with an investigation, you can lie to yo' Mama, you can bribe other ppl to lie about you, you can pay ppl to come forth with aliblis. But as long as it wasn't to a judge, you was
still a fine upstanding citizen. You can get Joe T to lie if youse pays him enuf. And if you are Dompig'd kid, well, you can lie and have your former friend arrested ! ! ! :wink:  :wink:
.....
This  "witness ", I never believed it from he get go and neither did Jossy.
But, he did sign a paper about the reward money at Helen Lejuez's office.
.....
So KJ is going to get Jossy. :oops:  Isn't she one of the ones that was described as unprofessional and Dompig's investigation dscribed as " strange ".
She might be getting herself.
LOL  What a strange crew they have on watch on Aruba    :lol:

There was a time when they posted on RWV together when SM was down and their syntax is somewhat different, although they both are very full of themselves and are both moneymongers.

She's writing a bitch book.

ok..I just read that post about Liz Taylor where DiHannah said ET and thought of an alien... with a glowing finger... so I know I need sleep ...

take care and keep the faith monkeys... see you tomorrow...

:lol:  :lol:

Shes A Rich , Witch , Bitch .............

 :roll:

I'm sure she thought about it. And i am sure she would have liked to. But when she had a falling out with Natalee's family her gravy train was de-railed. That might explain her current...errr...position.

Good night, rest well.  No news, just verified what Easy had told us via his source.  I see why Jossy was worried about this witness.

Tylergal,

How many evil, vicious woman live on that island.  Is that Julia's sidekick Angela an American?  I think they need different nic's more like Julia Renfro, a.k.a. "The Black Widow" a.k.a. "The Dangerous Diva" a.k.a "The Toxic Tempress" a.k.a. "The Woman Who Goes Around Killing Lots Of People".  

I know I need to tone it down because we don't want to hurt Julia's feeling do we?

G.W. Bush's Popularity Ratings On The Upswing ..............

Even A Blind Squirrel Finds An Acorn One In Awhile ...............

 8)

Sleep well mrsred and stay dry..

LOL Mrs. Red.  I'm just too lazy to type!

G'night and sweet dreams Mrs. Red!

I hope we hear something positive soon.. I'm going to bed also and if I don't talk to you tomorrow then have good weekend..

I'm feeling nothing positive this weekend on the case.  But hope your weekend is wonderful!

Ok, my bedtime too.  Have a wonderful productive (on the case) night and sweet dreams!

This is way off topic, but if you all get around to it ...
New Front page post.


Supreme Court Stupidity; Salim Ahmed Hamdan Decision … SCOTUS 5-3 that the trials for 10 foreign terror suspects violate U.S. military law & the Geneva conventions.

http://tinyurl.com/k7elb


Comment from Nancy Pelosi ... “Today’s Supreme Court decision reaffirms the American ideal that all are entitled to the basic guarantees of our justice system. This is a triumph for the rule of law".

Take a good look on the FP as to who the SCOTUS just gave the rule of law to and Geneva Conventions rights to as well. WOW

Un oh, ya aren't gonna hold that against me are ya?

Pretty soon on the battle field our grunts will have to 'marandize' anyone they plan on shooting or capturing.

terryd270:

I think the 250K$ reward isn't enough to break the silence of those truly in the know on Aruba, meaning those involved in what happened to Natalee.  There has been much speculation about there being a large scale cover-up (involving government officially, police, the suspects, friends etc.).  But I think the number of people who actually know what happened to Natalee is limited to J2K and Paulas.  If it weren't, the odds go way up that the truth will come out.  The others really don't have the information (meaning van der Stratten, JK, Jacobs, even Obador (the Prime Minister)).  They are all involved in helping to pull off ruining the case due to friendship ties, family ties, and political ties but they don't I think few really know where Natalee is and what happened. With their involvement, they would subject to prosecution in Holland if they talk...and the 250K$ would begin to pay the resulting lawyer fees.

Joran and the Kalpoes probably have not discussed this much with friends, yet.  They will someday - look at Joran and his new blog site.

It has been suggested on SM that the time has come for the 1 million dollar reward to be changed to 'for information leading to the recovery' of Natalee from the present 'safe return'.  With a million, one of those involved could rat out the others and start a new life..' but not on 250K.

WoooHooo!!! I just learned how to put more than one IP address on a Linux box with just one NIC.

I know that some on here will not like this post , But if I were a grunt I would probaly not capture anyone. In other words take no prisoners. JMHO

Sam

Anybody get a good read on the Greta/JQK civil discussion? They were joking around and i could not tell if the judge's slowness was being referred to as good or bad.

Kinda appeared to be just what they were discussing.

The glass could be half full or half empty depending on who was looking.

Greta appeared to question JQK's assertion that the slowness was good.

A very helpful person, VMS, just emailed me a couple of better photos of Angela:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/angelaM1.jpg)

You know better than that.  After all, you flattered me when you said you thought I was GT.

JQK was attempting to suggest it was a good thing and Greta was pressing him about it.  JQK said he really didn't know if it was a good thing but he preferred to think of it as good.  I think Greta was trying to see if JQK had any inside info regarding how the judge might decide.

The sad thing is the million dollar reward is put up by Joe Mamana SP? It is really only gaurrenteed for the safe return which was never really expected to be paid. I also understand from the darkside JM has some financial woes of his own.

Sam

That's what I thought.  I guess I need to take a Greta pill because lately she has been causing me a good bit of constipation.

I'm not real good at guessing ages, but that lady looks rather young to me.

Scuba seemed to be very proud of being the mother of a 20 yr old and her description past activities seemed to age her to me to at least be in her late 40's. the girl pictured looks a lot younger to me.

Old pic? or Different lady from Scuba?

BRAVO, Red!!

Your editorial is GREAT.

Thanks Klass and Carnut. I was kinda distracted and at first it sounded to me like Greta was implying that it was 'obvious' that the delay was a good thing and was trying to get JQK to admit it. But i will go with your versions.

Didn't you find JR's resume ? C'mon, no one is looking ! ! ! :lol:  :lol:

I've been under the impression that Joe M put up the last $250,000.00 to bring it to $1 million.

Well, Carnut, I can assure you when I had a 20-year-old son I looked no older nor near as fat as this cat.

Tylergal,
I am signing off and going to bed now but wanted to let you know I went to the 2 websites you posted much earlier and spent alot of time reading about the missing, kidnapped American children and also the social mores of the Netherlands. No wonder there is no crime in Aruba. Nothing there is illegal.

Sam

The photo is from a wedding where it looks like her son is getting married.  Her son looks like he could be in his 20's.

Sam, it was eye opening, don't you think.

Waterboy (previously, Jerry) Says: (on FP)
June 29th, 2006 at 11:10 pm


I agree with this!
If you take ALL the posts on different blogs that get the most reaction from "the dark side" or trolls -- we can bet we are getting very close to the truth with that topic!!

Well, if anyone knows about financial woes it would be the darkside. They will be enjoying their beachfront vacations allright. Only now they will be sharing quarters with Boeti. 8)