Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Natalee Holloway => LCD Archive => Topic started by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 01:11:14 AM



Title: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29 - 11/30/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 01:11:14 AM
 (http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/NH.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 11:54:30 AM
 :roll:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 11:55:55 AM
Kalpoe decision whether they can use the same attorney will be made tomorrow.

Still waiting to hear if Joran can get his bible in Jail.

My wish is PVDS is re-arrested before the weekend:


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Sweatyrunningman-new2-1.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: igsigs on November 29, 2007, 11:56:17 AM
MSNBC report coming up. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 29, 2007, 11:57:00 AM
Posted by spock - pg 48 (#696)

The New Evidence Is:

We know now, the new evidence includes taped conversations at the suspect homes (electronic bugging). We also know anything gathered since the Summer 2005 release of the suspects is also considered "new" for the purpose of re-detaining the boys. To be specific, we have learned one of the Kalpoe boys was heard admitting that he returned to beach after the 3 am text messages to Joran and that the earlier declarations had significant gaps that were recoved from the original video taped interogations.  

can anyone confirm (or deny) this as being true.
this would be a rather interesting tidbit of info, if true.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 12:00:06 PM
Morning Monkeys!

By the way, Monkeys, when we watched Joran at the beach with the police, we were mistaken. The police, nor Joran were ever there.

It was redacted.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 12:01:03 PM
MSNBC report coming up. 

Thanks Igsigs - keep us updated if they say anything of interest


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 29, 2007, 12:01:25 PM
Posted by spock - pg 48 (#696)

The New Evidence Is:

We know now, the new evidence includes taped conversations at the suspect homes (electronic bugging). We also know anything gathered since the Summer 2005 release of the suspects is also considered "new" for the purpose of re-detaining the boys. To be specific, we have learned one of the Kalpoe boys was heard admitting that he returned to beach after the 3 am text messages to Joran and that the earlier declarations had significant gaps that were recoved from the original video taped interogations.  

can anyone confirm (or deny) this as being true.
this would be a rather interesting tidbit of info, if true.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 12:01:56 PM
Posted by spock - pg 48 (#696)

The New Evidence Is:

We know now, the new evidence includes taped conversations at the suspect homes (electronic bugging). We also know anything gathered since the Summer 2005 release of the suspects is also considered "new" for the purpose of re-detaining the boys. To be specific, we have learned one of the Kalpoe boys was heard admitting that he returned to beach after the 3 am text messages to Joran and that the earlier declarations had significant gaps that were recoved from the original video taped interogations.  

can anyone confirm (or deny) this as being true.
this would be a rather interesting tidbit of info, if true.

 :shock:
Where did this come from?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: igsigs on November 29, 2007, 12:02:05 PM
MSNBC - Kosinski

Kalpoe lawyers feel *things went their way* re lawyer decision.

Kalpoe lawyers feel sure OM will ask for additional 8 days. Decision later today?

Confusing report.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: msmarple on November 29, 2007, 12:03:36 PM
which one of the kalpoes was recorded as saying they went to the beach after 3am text message.

where did this info come from ??

I can't fully address the queries about this, or other points Spok suggested, but the tidbit about a Kalpoe returning to the beach was posted several times during the past week or so. Amigoe.com recently reported that CBS mentioned that Deepak (specifically, I *think*) went back to the beach. That article was posted here, probably several times, possibly by me but certainly by other(s).

I went to the CBS news site, did a search, and found a video that does in fact report just that, by a female reporter on Aruba. I posted a link to the video. So it's here somewhere; possibly in the previous thread.

Don't know how well the SM Search function works these days, but I don't post a lot so it shouldn't be too hard to find.

Having said that, I don't know where CBS got that information. In my post, I wondered if this pertains to Deepak going to pick Joran up, or look for Joran's shoes, or what. Especially since the whole beach scenario itself is questionable.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 29, 2007, 12:04:10 PM
Posted by spock - pg 48 (#696)

The New Evidence Is:

We know now, the new evidence includes taped conversations at the suspect homes (electronic bugging). We also know anything gathered since the Summer 2005 release of the suspects is also considered "new" for the purpose of re-detaining the boys. To be specific, we have learned one of the Kalpoe boys was heard admitting that he returned to beach after the 3 am text messages to Joran and that the earlier declarations had significant gaps that were recoved from the original video taped interogations.  

can anyone confirm (or deny) this as being true.
this would be a rather interesting tidbit of info, if true.

A few of us asked, but Spock didn't reply. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 29, 2007, 12:04:22 PM
crazybabyborg - it came from spock - p48 (#696)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 12:06:56 PM
MSNBC - Kosinski

Kalpoe lawyers feel *things went their way* re lawyer decision. Probably pertaining to usuing the same attorney and they will get that decision tomorrow

Kalpoe lawyers feel sure OM will ask for additional 8 days. Decision later today? Yes, the decision whether to detain 8 more days will probably come later today

Confusing report.

My answers in red


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: igsigs on November 29, 2007, 12:09:13 PM
Dilma Arends reported that cell records showed that Deepak went back to the beach - on BOR. June/July 05. Never heard anything else about it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Sue on November 29, 2007, 12:09:26 PM


OFF TOPIC:  I have returned from Middle east and completed
my blog in the lounge with pictures if anyone would like to look
thanks Klaas for fixing that one pic

Some writing might not make sense I have sleep deprevation
and I dont know what time zone i am in :roll:



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Kimmy53 on November 29, 2007, 12:09:37 PM
Morning Monkeys!

By the way, Monkeys, when we watched Joran at the beach with the police, we were mistaken. The police, nor Joran were ever there.

It was redacted.

A Figment of our Imaginations! :roll:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 29, 2007, 12:09:46 PM
msmarple, thanks for your post about the Kalpoe returning to the beach story. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 29, 2007, 12:11:52 PM
Dilma Arends reported that cell records showed that Deepak went back to the beach - on BOR. June/July 05. Never heard anything else about it.

that would certainly open the window for the sloots to "pass the buck" with regard to responsibility and person last with natalee holloway.

one of the kalpoe brothers (probably deepak) will get the most jail time of the three.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 29, 2007, 12:13:36 PM
Dilma Arends reported that cell records showed that Deepak went back to the beach - on BOR. June/July 05. Never heard anything else about it.

that would certainly open the window for the sloots to "pass the buck" with regard to responsibility and person last with natalee holloway.

one of the kalpoe brothers (probably deepak) will get the most jail time of the three.

the setup / framing of deepak may well be in the works. sloots are slick and care about no one but themselves. kalpoes are disposable.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 12:13:40 PM


OFF TOPIC:  I have returned from Middle east and completed
my blog in the lounge with pictures if anyone would like to look
thanks Klaas for fixing that one pic

Some writing might not make sense I have sleep deprevation
and I dont know what time zone i am in :roll:



Thanks Sue - some great photos.  I'm going to spend more time looking a little later today!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 12:15:39 PM
Deepak went back to the beach around 3:00am or after? Why would he wash his car first?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 29, 2007, 12:17:48 PM

Remember the Kalpoes wanted to have the same attorney.  There were 2 motions before the judge today not pertaining to the 8 day extension.  Kalpoes same attorney and Joran's desire to read the bible.

If he'd have read his bible a long time ago, we wouldn't be in this mess right now.

I would imagine that the lawyers want to listen in on whatever is discussed with the Judge, hoping to glean some info....that is IF the judge would allow that.


Many come to a place when they realize that their lives are spinning out of control.  This could be a result of happenings that are or are not  of their own makings ... their own personal choices.

Either way ... this is often the time when individuals ... in their  desperation ... will bow and  reach up ... "genuinely" repent and ... plead forgiveness from God and ... those they have wrongs.

I pray for his sake and ... the sake of Natalee's family ... Joran van der Sloot will bow and ... reach up.

Sincerely, Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 29, 2007, 12:18:32 PM
Dilma Arends reported that cell records showed that Deepak went back to the beach - on BOR. June/July 05. Never heard anything else about it.

that would certainly open the window for the sloots to "pass the buck" with regard to responsibility and person last with natalee holloway.

one of the kalpoe brothers (probably deepak) will get the most jail time of the three.

Just thinking about the car washing/cleaning in the early hours timeline...wonder how that fits in, if a fact. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Dihannah1 on November 29, 2007, 12:18:42 PM


OFF TOPIC:  I have returned from Middle east and completed
my blog in the lounge with pictures if anyone would like to look
thanks Klaas for fixing that one pic

Some writing might not make sense I have sleep deprevation
and I dont know what time zone i am in :roll:



Welcome back Sue! I'm heading over to see and read.  Thanks for sharing your trip.
Be sure to get some rest and drink plenty of water to prevent jetlag!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: igsigs on November 29, 2007, 12:19:35 PM
Early in the case ArubaToday printed articles about both the 6:30am (SCroes) call and the Deepak beach return call. The paper archives are gone but i found summations for both articles on RWV (Maria).

I had pretty much dismissed both reports due to no follow-up.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 12:19:39 PM
Bill O'Reilly
Back of Book Segment
More details from Aruba

Guest: Reporter Dilma Arends
Aruba investigative reporter Dilma Arends elaborated on the
Natalee Holloway investigation, implying that Aruba authorities
may have a stronger case than many people realize. "Aruba
authorities have been using cell sites and the cell phone
batteries to determine the movement of the boys involved. For
example, they were able to determine that Joren Van Der Sloot
got home at 4 AM. So I think they have more proof than they are
telling us." The Factor asserted that Arends' claims will
provide comfort to Natalee's family. "What you just told us
makes a difference to the Holloway family because it gives them
some hope. There should be a way for the government to get more
information to the family that is not going to damage the
case."

http://www.billoreilly.com/show?action=viewTVShow&showID=363


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 12:20:37 PM
Deepak went back to the beach around 3:00am or after? Why would he wash his car first?

he went back to get the shoes after he washed his car?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 12:20:43 PM
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Metro112907.jpg)

http://metropoint.metro.lu/20071129_Amsterdam.pdf


I'll see if I can translate this.  Looks like Peter de Vries is talking about the recent arrests.  I know he re-aired his show last night I think.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 29, 2007, 12:21:48 PM
Deepak went back to the beach around 3:00am or after? Why would he wash his car first?

with all the propaganda in this case, the neighbor hearing / witnessing a late night car wash could very well be for the purpose and to the advantage of deepak to distance himself from being at the beach. neighbor would be closer in friendship to kalpoes than joran.

who the hell knows anymore......... hopefully MOS does !!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Kimmy53 on November 29, 2007, 12:27:25 PM
Question:

As I understand, most if not all cell phones have GPS chips installed in them.. I am wondering....does this feature have to be activated, or would it be possible to track someones movements via them just carrying their phones, even though they did not use it to make a call?

TIA


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 29, 2007, 12:28:04 PM
Deepak went back to the beach around 3:00am or after? Why would he wash his car first?

Everybody is forgetting about the gardener's observation at 2:30 AM ... the observation that places Joran, Deepak and ? across street from the beach in Deepak's parked vehicle.  Where was Natalee??

Janet

++++++++++++++

Carlos Ramos - Gardener
Court Hearing
August 15, 2005


I have seen the car in the morning of 30 May of Sunday on Monday. I went to Lorena on Monday night, then I went to work, told that I saw a car standing along the way when I drove along there. I cannot remember on which day I saw the photograph of the persons in the newspaper. The photograph, which the police force showed me, is the same photograph as the photograph that appeared in the Diario. You ask me how can I know or recognize the persons from the photograph in the newspaper or that I had seen that night. The first time then I saw the photograph in the Diario I had been astonished and I said that to colleagues. You represent me that I have explained that I have recognized the persons from their construction and mail hour. You ask me if I could see from my position in the car. My position was a bit is higher, in the turning I had drive concerning a sand hill as a result of which my position was a bit slanted. As a result, I could look at in the car. I have recognized the car from the rims. Also to the color and the transparent squares. You ask me if I can designate the persons, which sat in the car. Yes.

Beth Twitty
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
February 23, 2006


BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ..... Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Katysmom on November 29, 2007, 12:28:08 PM
Fox saying they have info regarding the kalpoes detention. comeing up after the break


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 12:28:27 PM
Joran got home at 4:00 and Deepak went back to the beach at 3:00? I don't think this lends itself to Deepak going back to the beach to have sex with Natalee. Sounds to me Deepak went back to join Joran who may have encountered a problem.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Katysmom on November 29, 2007, 12:32:58 PM
Leave it to Fox to say one thing and do another


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 12:35:27 PM
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Metro112907.jpg)

http://metropoint.metro.lu/20071129_Amsterdam.pdf


I'll see if I can translate this.  Looks like Peter de Vries is talking about the recent arrests.  I know he re-aired his show last night I think.

RETRANSMISSION PETER R. REPEATED OF OF THE DITCH

SBS6 the reportage repeats that peter R. de Vries a year ago for its crime programme made concerning Joran of of the ditch on 2 December. According to de Vries is with the recent arrest of the boy need for duiding in the matter.

For the reportage de Vries in 2006 research, on Aruba. With people concerned confidential discussions were conducted, which produced revealing insights concerning the disappearance of the American Natalee Holloway.

Peter R. de Vries: "In the media show of the previous days it is too much speculated people who see through no knowledge of matter. Our report from a year ago stands and is dead straight intact


In other words - de Vries stands behind his show and the research he did a year ago.

PS - to our Dutch posters...I know "ditch" is Sloot.  I like leaving it as "ditch", lol  :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Katysmom on November 29, 2007, 12:36:49 PM
Joran gets his bible & the kalpoes hearing hasn't happened yet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 12:36:59 PM
Joran has his bible - nothing else yet



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 29, 2007, 12:37:08 PM
Joran got home at 4:00 and Deepak went back to the beach at 3:00? I don't think this lends itself to Deepak going back to the beach to have sex with Natalee. Sounds to me Deepak went back to join Joran who may have encountered a problem.

sorry to say... i do not put much weight on times. too much conflicting info.

from memory and correct me if wrong...

deepak neighbor - someone washing car in wee hours (3am ??)
deepak cpu - late night chatting (approx 3am)
deepak - gardener spotting at 230 am
joran - home at 4am ??
joran - gardener spotting at 230am
joran - on beach with natalee.
satish - home, sleeping like a baby.
paulus - atm withdrawls.
paulus - 4am mcdonalds
paulus - home, sleeping like a baby. maybe, maybe not using telephone (incoming / outgoing)

wow - makes your head kind of spin !!!

where did expiration of natalee take place in everyone's opinion.
beach? house? car? other place?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: igsigs on November 29, 2007, 12:38:38 PM
FOX - surfer dude

No mention of 8-day hearing / ruling.   ?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 12:39:48 PM
Janet, you are wonderful!

Deepak washing his car 1:30

Gardner saw them parked across from the beach @ 2:30  (waiting for someone?)

Deepak at beach @ 3:00 (Don't know who else is with him)

Joran home @ 4:00

I'm just pulling threads off the top of my head here, but.........
She's dead before Deepak scours his car, that just makes sense.
They're hiding and waiting at 2:30. That would mean they are in disposal of the body mode.
Natalee was in the car?
Whoever they are waiting for is met and they go to the beach to recover anything that may have been left, or to get a crab trap. Puts Deepak at the beach @ 3:00.
By 4:00, she's been buried, or taken out to the ocean.

Help me guys. What am I missing?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on November 29, 2007, 12:40:32 PM
Joran got home at 4:00 and Deepak went back to the beach at 3:00? I don't think this lends itself to Deepak going back to the beach to have sex with Natalee. Sounds to me Deepak went back to join Joran who may have encountered a problem.

Merian Ernest Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:48 am Post subject: Who is Simian?
The lines flow easily. Full sentences.

Everyhere you go, your dot will be on the dish. The thing is that it came back to haunt
you.

Little altars built into their rooms. Only one rested, while the other went to the aide of
foul mouthed one.
Bite your tongue off now. [/i]


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 12:42:00 PM
Deepak went back to the beach around 3:00am or after? Why would he wash his car first?

Everybody is forgetting about the gardener's observation at 2:30 AM ... the observation that places Joran, Deepak and ? across street from the beach in Deepak's parked vehicle.  Where was Natalee??

Janet

++++++++++++++

Carlos Ramos - Gardener
Court Hearing
August 15, 2005


I have seen the car in the morning of 30 May of Sunday on Monday. I went to Lorena on Monday night, then I went to work, told that I saw a car standing along the way when I drove along there. I cannot remember on which day I saw the photograph of the persons in the newspaper. The photograph, which the police force showed me, is the same photograph as the photograph that appeared in the Diario. You ask me how can I know or recognize the persons from the photograph in the newspaper or that I had seen that night. The first time then I saw the photograph in the Diario I had been astonished and I said that to colleagues. You represent me that I have explained that I have recognized the persons from their construction and mail hour. You ask me if I could see from my position in the car. My position was a bit is higher, in the turning I had drive concerning a sand hill as a result of which my position was a bit slanted. As a result, I could look at in the car. I have recognized the car from the rims. Also to the color and the transparent squares. You ask me if I can designate the persons, which sat in the car. Yes.

Beth Twitty
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
February 23, 2006


BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ..... Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.

Natalee could have been either in the trunk which I kind of find it hard that she might fit in the trunk due to Deepak's stero system being in the trunk or they were waiting for a second car that had her body (Paulus).


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 12:42:09 PM
No, no. Deepak wouldn't wash his car and then put her back in it. Someone else picks up Natalee after she's dead, and the boy's job is to get the trap, then meet the boat where she's been taken.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 12:44:17 PM
Deepak went back to the beach around 3:00am or after? Why would he wash his car first?

Everybody is forgetting about the gardener's observation at 2:30 AM ... the observation that places Joran, Deepak and ? across street from the beach in Deepak's parked vehicle.  Where was Natalee??

Janet

++++++++++++++

Carlos Ramos - Gardener
Court Hearing
August 15, 2005


I have seen the car in the morning of 30 May of Sunday on Monday. I went to Lorena on Monday night, then I went to work, told that I saw a car standing along the way when I drove along there. I cannot remember on which day I saw the photograph of the persons in the newspaper. The photograph, which the police force showed me, is the same photograph as the photograph that appeared in the Diario. You ask me how can I know or recognize the persons from the photograph in the newspaper or that I had seen that night. The first time then I saw the photograph in the Diario I had been astonished and I said that to colleagues. You represent me that I have explained that I have recognized the persons from their construction and mail hour. You ask me if I could see from my position in the car. My position was a bit is higher, in the turning I had drive concerning a sand hill as a result of which my position was a bit slanted. As a result, I could look at in the car. I have recognized the car from the rims. Also to the color and the transparent squares. You ask me if I can designate the persons, which sat in the car. Yes.

Beth Twitty
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
February 23, 2006


BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ..... Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.

Natalee could have been either in the trunk which I kind of find it hard that she might fit in the trunk due to Deepak's stero system being in the trunk or they were waiting for a second car that had her body (Paulus).

Meant to say trunk not truck.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 29, 2007, 12:45:40 PM
MSNBC - Kosinski

Kalpoe lawyers feel *things went their way* re lawyer decision.

Kalpoe lawyers feel sure OM will ask for additional 8 days. Decision later today?

Confusing report.

 
:2thinky: Yes it...makes no sense. If things went their way then why would they expect OM to ask for 8 more days... "I don't understand their system"  :gaah:

Also...the hearing was today and they won't decide till tomorrow?? That isn't the way it happened last go around, was it?? "I don't understand their system"  :gaah:



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 12:46:20 PM
FOX - surfer dude

No mention of 8-day hearing / ruling.   ?



That's because I don't think the judge has met with K2 yet today. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 12:49:01 PM
Just posted on the front page of SM:

EURobert wrote:

Dutch Telegraaf reports that Natalees parents both go to Aruba, arriving probably tomorrow (friday).

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/2651564/Ouders_Holloway_op_weg_naar_Aruba.html?p=1,1

Don’t know how accurate this article is because they say Dave will come to Aruba in relation to new boatsearch. But they state that American media that are in contact with Daves lawyers say so.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 12:49:43 PM
Revised:

She's dead before Deepak scours his car, that just makes sense. Neighbor said 1:30.
Someone with access to a boat has been contacted and a plan devised to get a crab trap and dump her in the ocean. The guys have agreed to meet the contact at the beach to get a crab trap so her body wouldn't wash ashore.
They're hiding and waiting at 2:30. A crab trap wouldn't fit in Deepak's car, would it? The contact will haul it.
Whoever they are waiting for is met and they go to the beach to get a crab trap. Puts Deepak at the beach @ 3:00.
By 4:00, Joran's home.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Helen Back on November 29, 2007, 12:51:02 PM
I am surprised that Kalpoe attorneys are arguing for same representation.  Seems irresponsible since each deserves an attorney who represents their best interest.  In the event that one has more involvement than another, this would be impossible. Would also be a good reason for appeal, after conviction.  Makes no sense.

It won't happen, IMO.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 29, 2007, 12:51:50 PM
Janet, you are wonderful!

Deepak washing his car 1:30

Gardner saw them parked across from the beach @ 2:30  (waiting for someone?)

Deepak at beach @ 3:00 (Don't know who else is with him)

Joran home @ 4:00

I'm just pulling threads off the top of my head here, but.........
She's dead before Deepak scours his car, that just makes sense.
They're hiding and waiting at 2:30. That would mean they are in disposal of the body mode.
Natalee was in the car?
Whoever they are waiting for is met and they go to the beach to recover anything that may have been left, or to get a crab trap. Puts Deepak at the beach @ 3:00.
By 4:00, she's been buried, or taken out to the ocean.

Help me guys. What am I missing?


papa sloot could possibly have driven joran back home to sloot residence at 4am.

questions.. (1) if deepak, joran in car at 230 am sighting. who else were they with ??
(2) who was gathering fish trap if they were in car waiting. (3) what was paulus doing from time he learned of problem to 4am? getting money ?? arranging boat ?? (4) doeas steve croes enter the picture here, or guido, or freddy? (5) if satish at home (on cpu) not involved - why is he in jail and why he is so mixed up with a crime that he did not commit ??

thoughts..............


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 12:52:04 PM
No, no. Deepak wouldn't wash his car and then put her back in it. Someone else picks up Natalee after she's dead, and the boy's job is to get the trap, then meet the boat where she's been taken.

That fish trap would have to be put in a truck.  Who had the truck?  Paulus?  Steve Crose?

If you look at one of the pictures of Steve Croes' house there is a blue pickup truck parked there.  This truck would fit a trap and a body.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Kimmy53 on November 29, 2007, 12:57:34 PM
No, no. Deepak wouldn't wash his car and then put her back in it. Someone else picks up Natalee after she's dead, and the boy's job is to get the trap, then meet the boat where she's been taken.

That fish trap would have to be put in a truck.  Who had the truck?  Paulus?  Steve Crose?

If you look at one of the pictures of Steve Croes' house there is a blue pickup truck parked there.  This truck would fit a trap and a body.

Or an ATV...could be strapped on the back


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Sue on November 29, 2007, 12:58:32 PM
Joran gets his bible & the kalpoes hearing hasn't happened yet


he must be praying for his next drink and toke of weed, cant imagine
him praying for anything else


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BTgirl on November 29, 2007, 12:59:19 PM
Would someone please post one of those wonderful maps of Aruba with the areas important to the case labeled?

TY


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 29, 2007, 01:00:15 PM
Deepak went back to the beach around 3:00am or after? Why would he wash his car first?

Everybody is forgetting about the gardener's observation at 2:30 AM ... the observation that places Joran, Deepak and ? across street from the beach in Deepak's parked vehicle.  Where was Natalee??

Janet

++++++++++++++

Carlos Ramos - Gardener
Court Hearing
August 15, 2005


I have seen the car in the morning of 30 May of Sunday on Monday. I went to Lorena on Monday night, then I went to work, told that I saw a car standing along the way when I drove along there. I cannot remember on which day I saw the photograph of the persons in the newspaper. The photograph, which the police force showed me, is the same photograph as the photograph that appeared in the Diario. You ask me how can I know or recognize the persons from the photograph in the newspaper or that I had seen that night. The first time then I saw the photograph in the Diario I had been astonished and I said that to colleagues. You represent me that I have explained that I have recognized the persons from their construction and mail hour. You ask me if I could see from my position in the car. My position was a bit is higher, in the turning I had drive concerning a sand hill as a result of which my position was a bit slanted. As a result, I could look at in the car. I have recognized the car from the rims. Also to the color and the transparent squares. You ask me if I can designate the persons, which sat in the car. Yes.

Beth Twitty
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
February 23, 2006


BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ..... Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.

Natalee could have been either in the trunk which I kind of find it hard that she might fit in the trunk due to Deepak's stero system being in the trunk or they were waiting for a second car that had her body (Paulus).

Tamikosmom's musings ... musings that include all seven detained  suspects as well as Freddy.

Janet

++++++++++++++++

OCKHAM'S RAZOR
"You must never fail to adopt the simplest idea as your working hypothesis. If necessity demands, you can dump it later when you have more data, but only because it is no longer the simplest idea" or "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity."



1.  Freddy is waiting at the VDS' residence ... with his camera ... when Satish, Deepak and Joran arrive with a drugged Natalee after leaving Carlos 'N Charles'.

2.  Guido arrives in his own vehicle at the same time.

3.  In an attempt to escape a gang rape Natalee sustains a head injury.

4.  As the sexual assault ensues Natalee appears to pass out.

5.  The decision is made to take Natalee to the beach where she can sleep it off and ... make her own way to the HI in time to catch her flight back home.

6.  Guido leaves the picture.

7.  Joran, Deepak and Freddy ... enroute to the beach ... drop off Satish off at home.

8.  Deepak drops off Joran, Freddy and a "passed out" Natalee at the beach while he parks his vehicle a short distance away at the tennis club.

9.  However ... Freddy and Joran realize that Natalee is deceased. 

10.  Leaving a deceased Natalee on the beach ... Joran and Freddy run across the street to where Deepak is waiting in his vehicle.

11.  A panicked discussion ensues.  When it is considered that Joran, Deepak and Satish were observed leaving Carlos 'n Charlie's  ... the injury and the DNA evidence on Natalee's person could be very incriminating.

12.  Paulus is contacted.

13.  The gardener enters the picture.  He observes Joran, Deepak and Freddy in the parked vehicle.

14.  Paulus arrives and ... accesses the situation.

15.  Assistance in moving a deceased Natalee is required.  GVC and Steve Croes are contacted.

16.  Deepak, Joran and Freddy leave the scene.

+++++++++++++++++


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 01:00:16 PM
Revised:

She's dead before Deepak scours his car, that just makes sense. Neighbor said 1:30.
Someone with access to a boat has been contacted and a plan devised to get a crab trap and dump her in the ocean. The guys have agreed to meet the contact at the beach to get a crab trap so her body wouldn't wash ashore.
They're hiding and waiting at 2:30. A crab trap wouldn't fit in Deepak's car, would it? The contact will haul it.
Whoever they are waiting for is met and they go to the beach to get a crab trap. Puts Deepak at the beach @ 3:00.
By 4:00, Joran's home.

What was the time of the ATM withdrawal.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: igsigs on November 29, 2007, 01:00:23 PM
Seems like Joran does not expect to be released anytime soon - making all these requests to improve the conditions in his new *home*.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 01:00:31 PM
Revised:

She's dead before Deepak scours his car, that just makes sense. Neighbor said 1:30.
Someone with access to a boat has been contacted and a plan devised to get a crab trap and dump her in the ocean. The guys have agreed to meet the contact at the beach to get a crab trap so her body wouldn't wash ashore.
They're hiding and waiting at 2:30. A crab trap wouldn't fit in Deepak's car, would it? The contact will haul it.
Whoever they are waiting for is met and they go to the beach to get a crab trap. Puts Deepak at the beach @ 3:00.
By 4:00, Joran's home.

I'm with you guys, just keep pulling the threads...........
I would add that after they got the trap, there was time to go back to Joran's apartment, collect Natalee, and Joran stays home and gets on his cell or computer to begin the alibi.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 01:01:02 PM
Would someone please post one of those wonderful maps of Aruba with the areas important to the case labeled?

TY

BTgirl - if you look in the Important Case Document area, Sunfreak has a thread for Evidence, Maps etc.  Lot's of different maps there.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 01:01:32 PM
No, no. Deepak wouldn't wash his car and then put her back in it. Someone else picks up Natalee after she's dead, and the boy's job is to get the trap, then meet the boat where she's been taken.

That fish trap would have to be put in a truck.  Who had the truck?  Paulus?  Steve Crose?

If you look at one of the pictures of Steve Croes' house there is a blue pickup truck parked there.  This truck would fit a trap and a body.

Or an ATV...could be strapped on the back


Guido was the one with the ATV and the police confiscated it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BTgirl on November 29, 2007, 01:01:53 PM
Would someone please post one of those wonderful maps of Aruba with the areas important to the case labeled?

TY

BTgirl - if you look in the Important Case Document area, Sunfreak has a thread for Evidence, Maps etc.  Lot's of different maps there.

Thank you. I'll go take a look.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 01:02:14 PM
Seems like Joran does not expect to be released anytime soon - making all these requests to improve the conditions in his new *home*.

We already know his next hearing isn't until December 7th, so he should have plenty of time to read his bible.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 01:05:45 PM
Seems like Joran does not expect to be released anytime soon - making all these requests to improve the conditions in his new *home*.

We already know his next hearing isn't until December 7th, so he should have plenty of time to read his bible.

If they give the Kalpoes another 8 days tomorrow that would mean that both Joran and K2 will go to court on the same day or is the Kalpoe extension more than 8 days?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 29, 2007, 01:07:56 PM
Deepak went back to the beach around 3:00am or after? Why would he wash his car first?

Everybody is forgetting about the gardener's observation at 2:30 AM ... the observation that places Joran, Deepak and ? across street from the beach in Deepak's parked vehicle.  Where was Natalee??

Janet

++++++++++++++

Carlos Ramos - Gardener
Court Hearing
August 15, 2005


I have seen the car in the morning of 30 May of Sunday on Monday. I went to Lorena on Monday night, then I went to work, told that I saw a car standing along the way when I drove along there. I cannot remember on which day I saw the photograph of the persons in the newspaper. The photograph, which the police force showed me, is the same photograph as the photograph that appeared in the Diario. You ask me how can I know or recognize the persons from the photograph in the newspaper or that I had seen that night. The first time then I saw the photograph in the Diario I had been astonished and I said that to colleagues. You represent me that I have explained that I have recognized the persons from their construction and mail hour. You ask me if I could see from my position in the car. My position was a bit is higher, in the turning I had drive concerning a sand hill as a result of which my position was a bit slanted. As a result, I could look at in the car. I have recognized the car from the rims. Also to the color and the transparent squares. You ask me if I can designate the persons, which sat in the car. Yes.

Beth Twitty
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
February 23, 2006


BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ..... Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.

Natalee could have been either in the trunk which I kind of find it hard that she might fit in the trunk due to Deepak's stero system being in the trunk or they were waiting for a second car that had her body (Paulus).

Tamikosmom's musings ... musings that include all seven detained  suspects as well as Freddy.

Janet

++++++++++++++++

OCKHAM'S RAZOR
"You must never fail to adopt the simplest idea as your working hypothesis. If necessity demands, you can dump it later when you have more data, but only because it is no longer the simplest idea" or "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity."



1.  Freddy is waiting at the VDS' residence ... with his camera ... when Satish, Deepak and Joran arrive with a drugged Natalee after leaving Carlos 'N Charles'.

2.  Guido arrives in his own vehicle at the same time.

3.  In an attempt to escape a gang rape Natalee sustains a head injury.

4.  As the sexual assault ensues Natalee appears to pass out.

5.  The decision is made to take Natalee to the beach where she can sleep it off and ... make her own way to the HI in time to catch her flight back home.

6.  Guido leaves the picture.

7.  Joran, Deepak and Freddy ... enroute to the beach ... drop off Satish off at home.

8.  Deepak drops off Joran, Freddy and a "passed out" Natalee at the beach while he parks his vehicle a short distance away at the tennis club.

9.  However ... Freddy and Joran realize that Natalee is deceased. 

10.  Leaving a deceased Natalee on the beach ... Joran and Freddy run across the street to where Deepak is waiting in his vehicle.

11.  A panicked discussion ensues.  When it is considered that Joran, Deepak and Satish were observed leaving Carlos 'n Charlie's  ... the injury and the DNA evidence on Natalee's person could be very incriminating.

12.  Paulus is contacted.

13.  The gardener enters the picture.  He observes Joran, Deepak and Freddy in the parked vehicle.

14.  Paulus arrives and ... accesses the situation.

15.  Assistance in moving a deceased Natalee is required.  GVC and Steve Croes are contacted.

16.  Deepak, Joran and Freddy leave the scene.

+++++++++++++++++


i like the train of thought, but... where does cleaning kalpoe car come in to play??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 01:09:41 PM
Seems like Joran does not expect to be released anytime soon - making all these requests to improve the conditions in his new *home*.

We already know his next hearing isn't until December 7th, so he should have plenty of time to read his bible.

If they give the Kalpoes another 8 days tomorrow that would mean that both Joran and K2 will go to court on the same day or is the Kalpoe extension more than 8 days?

The Kalpoe extension will be 8 days and yes, it would extend them to around Dec 7 as well.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Kimmy53 on November 29, 2007, 01:10:01 PM
No, no. Deepak wouldn't wash his car and then put her back in it. Someone else picks up Natalee after she's dead, and the boy's job is to get the trap, then meet the boat where she's been taken.

That fish trap would have to be put in a truck.  Who had the truck?  Paulus?  Steve Crose?

If you look at one of the pictures of Steve Croes' house there is a blue pickup truck parked there.  This truck would fit a trap and a body.

Or an ATV...could be strapped on the back


Guido was the one with the ATV and the police confiscated it.

I knew there was something about an ATV - thanks San


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 01:11:11 PM
Greta has posted a current video of the Sloot home from when she was just in Aruba.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: truthseeker2 on November 29, 2007, 01:12:50 PM
Revised:

She's dead before Deepak scours his car, that just makes sense. Neighbor said 1:30.
Someone with access to a boat has been contacted and a plan devised to get a crab trap and dump her in the ocean. The guys have agreed to meet the contact at the beach to get a crab trap so her body wouldn't wash ashore.
They're hiding and waiting at 2:30. A crab trap wouldn't fit in Deepak's car, would it? The contact will haul it.
Whoever they are waiting for is met and they go to the beach to get a crab trap. Puts Deepak at the beach @ 3:00.
By 4:00, Joran's home.

What time was the 8 minute phone call between Joran and Deepak....?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: igsigs on November 29, 2007, 01:12:52 PM
Joran is already on his second 8days - and next for him is 60 days. Kalpoes are up for their second 8 days today.

That's it, right?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 01:13:38 PM
Klaas,
Do you know if Joran got other things besides his Bible?  Like access to media to see Joe T and be encouraged by him?

I hope Mos gets to the bottom of who is leaking information to Joe T as that might as well be giving it to the MSM.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 01:14:36 PM
Seems like Joran does not expect to be released anytime soon - making all these requests to improve the conditions in his new *home*.

We already know his next hearing isn't until December 7th, so he should have plenty of time to read his bible.

If they give the Kalpoes another 8 days tomorrow that would mean that both Joran and K2 will go to court on the same day or is the Kalpoe extension more than 8 days?

The Kalpoe extension will be 8 days and yes, it would extend them to around Dec 7 as well.

So now they will be all on the same page.  So whatever decision is made it will be made for all.  There won't be one without the other.  If they release the Kalpoes first we would all know they would release Joran next.  So in my option they will extend the Kalpoes until next week and release them all at once.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 01:16:20 PM
Seems like Joran does not expect to be released anytime soon - making all these requests to improve the conditions in his new *home*.

We already know his next hearing isn't until December 7th, so he should have plenty of time to read his bible.

If they give the Kalpoes another 8 days tomorrow that would mean that both Joran and K2 will go to court on the same day or is the Kalpoe extension more than 8 days?

The Kalpoe extension will be 8 days and yes, it would extend them to around Dec 7 as well.

So now they will be all on the same page.  So whatever decision is made it will be made for all.  There won't be one without the other.  If they release the Kalpoes first we would all know they would release Joran next.  So in my option they will extend the Kalpoes until next week and release them all at once.

Less time for negative reactions if they are all released at the same time.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 01:19:14 PM
If Greta read here, why is it she only knows information favorable to Joran?  How could she have missed things like the transcript from the police van with Deepak telling Joran to forget his scholarship and he is going to get 15 years if they find "the girl"?

Instead, she only seems to know what Joe T tells her to know and everything he says is totally inaccurate.

Go figure!

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Getagrip on November 29, 2007, 01:20:40 PM
I think it was Stom that mentioned earlier that Satish needs representation the most because he's the most involved, but I think it's the opposite. Satish is only an element in this because there's no way he'll testify against his brother.

IIRC, the friendship was between Joran and Deepak, despite the fact that Joran and Satish are closer in age. Joran used Deepak for transportation, Deepak used Joran to get girls. The accusations that were flying at the beginning were between Deepak and Joran, Satish was pretty much left out of the situation.

Sorry if this sounds obvious, but perhaps I need to verbalize it for my own sake:

- if Deepak alone, or along w/ Satish was responsible, Joran and daddy would have very handily hung them out to dry from the very beginning. No dice because one or both would provide details as to Joran's involvement

- if Joran alone was responsible, both brothers would have cooperated with investigators to clear this matter up

The above leads me to conclude that both Joran and one or both of the brothers are involved. With what we know about the friendship (stated above) and just in general, Satish's demeanor and behavior, I'm pretty convinced Deepak is the culpable Kalpoe.

Now, if the new evidence is audio obtained via bugging of the Kalpoe house, and it was enough to detain Joran for 16 days total (8+8), does this mean that the Kalpoes will be detained for an additional 8?  They're not talking, right? At this point, it may not matter if they continue to be detained or not, because the purpose of the detention is to make them talk.

The only thing that really matters is if Mos really has the goods to take this to court. OTOH, why would he have gone ahead with the detention orders and start the media circus all over again? Does he have enough for detaining them the additional 30 days, at which point they would be jailed up to the arbitrary decision date of 12/31?

As you can see, I'm confused and the more I type the more confused I get  :roll: :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 01:21:38 PM
Greta has posted a current video of the Sloot home from when she was just in Aruba.

http://gretawire.

"When we were in Aruba we made our usual rounds ….to the homes of the suspects, the police stations(s), lawyers’ offices, courthouse etc. etc….and I shot lots of video….just to give you a bit of the behind the scenes, here is a video I shot outside Joran’s home (incidentally, I have pet that dog before…he is friendly even though he may not seem so in the video)….when I shot this video I was attempting to talk to Joran’s parents but no one was home:"

So where was Anita.  She rushed to email Greta and say I want to speak to Beth when they where there last time.  She should be rushing to Greta and giving her the BS she is feeding everyone on the internet.

How is it that every time something is happening at the Sloot home there is no one home.  Where are they staying.  They have to have a second home or they are staying with Vocking.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 01:21:52 PM
From Greta's blog:

November 29th, 2007 1:11 PM Eastern
Another Email From OTR Producer in Aruba
by Greta Van Susteren
 OTR Producer Tim Silfies just sent me this email…..he is outside the courthouse in Aruba.

From: Silfies, Tim
To: Van Susteren, Greta; Tarrant, Angela
Sent: Thu Nov 29 12:13:26 2007
Subject: Aruba

Joran’s motion is over. Hans left without speaking. Joran’s lawyer spoke on his way to the car. Said “they have nothing…..Joran was questioned as recently as last night”. A Dutch reporter told us that in Dutch, the lawyer said that the new evidence is “based mostly on a mistranslation between Dutch and Papiamento”

DON’T FORGET: a ship is headed to Aruba from the USA with high tech research equipment.  Last night we did a segment on this new search effort…and we are monitoring the search effort.  Watch ON THE RECORD for all the latest.  The searchers seem to think that with the sophistication of this equipment, they could find very important clues.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/



REMINDER:  Don't be fooled by defense attorneys  :wink:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: JustMeT on November 29, 2007, 01:21:54 PM
DO NOT be surprised that IF either of the Kalpoes went back to the beach that night that it turns out to be Satish.

This info is mind boggling, I hope they make sense of it all.

About the so called car washing, it doesn't make sense YET but possible I suppose. It was reported at some point because when questioned about it Deepak said it got them into a lot of trouble!? What did? The statement being reported or washing the car? No answer.

There are interrogation vids out there or was. Deepak over heard one where Joran was blaming Deepak which prompted Deepak to admit the HI story was indeed a fib. This is the only confession Deepak Kalpoe made at that time.  


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 01:22:59 PM
Seems like Joran does not expect to be released anytime soon - making all these requests to improve the conditions in his new *home*.

We already know his next hearing isn't until December 7th, so he should have plenty of time to read his bible.

If they give the Kalpoes another 8 days tomorrow that would mean that both Joran and K2 will go to court on the same day or is the Kalpoe extension more than 8 days?

The Kalpoe extension will be 8 days and yes, it would extend them to around Dec 7 as well.

So now they will be all on the same page.  So whatever decision is made it will be made for all.  There won't be one without the other.  If they release the Kalpoes first we would all know they would release Joran next.  So in my option they will extend the Kalpoes until next week and release them all at once.

Less time for negative reactions if they are all released at the same time.
.

Exactly.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 01:24:05 PM
After C&C's: Go to Joran's. Satish goes home. Maybe Deepak AND Satish go home. Freddy is at Joran's.

Natalee dies.

Joran calls Kalpoe/s setting off the car washing: 1:30 Quick plan devised to get a trap, put her in it, and dump her in the ocean.

Contact is made to someone who can haul the trap and take her out to sea.

Kalpoe/s pick Joran up to get the trap. Too risky to have the body with them. They are seen waiting for the contact @ 2:30.

They break into the hut and get the trap. Deepak is at the beach at 3:00. They load the trap into the contact's truck/SUV. Either Joran goes back home with the contact and Kalpoes go home, or rides back home with Kalpoes and then Kalpoes go home. They start establishing their alibis as soon as they are home.

Body is collected at Joran's, and taken by contact to a boat where she is dumped at sea.

Joran is home @ 4:00 establishing an alibi.

Freddy knows it all.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 01:25:28 PM
I think it was Stom that mentioned earlier that Satish needs representation the most because he's the most involved, but I think it's the opposite. Satish is only an element in this because there's no way he'll testify against his brother.

IIRC, the friendship was between Joran and Deepak, despite the fact that Joran and Satish are closer in age. Joran used Deepak for transportation, Deepak used Joran to get girls. The accusations that were flying at the beginning were between Deepak and Joran, Satish was pretty much left out of the situation.

Sorry if this sounds obvious, but perhaps I need to verbalize it for my own sake:

- if Deepak alone, or along w/ Satish was responsible, Joran and daddy would have very handily hung them out to dry from the very beginning. No dice because one or both would provide details as to Joran's involvement

- if Joran alone was responsible, both brothers would have cooperated with investigators to clear this matter up

The above leads me to conclude that both Joran and one or both of the brothers are involved. With what we know about the friendship (stated above) and just in general, Satish's demeanor and behavior, I'm pretty convinced Deepak is the culpable Kalpoe.

Now, if the new evidence is audio obtained via bugging of the Kalpoe house, and it was enough to detain Joran for 16 days total (8+8), does this mean that the Kalpoes will be detained for an additional 8?  They're not talking, right? At this point, it may not matter if they continue to be detained or not, because the purpose of the detention is to make them talk.

The only thing that really matters is if Mos really has the goods to take this to court. OTOH, why would he have gone ahead with the detention orders and start the media circus all over again? Does he have enough for detaining them the additional 30 days, at which point they would be jailed up to the arbitrary decision date of 12/31?

As you can see, I'm confused and the more I type the more confused I get  :roll: :lol:

Hi Getagrip - I agree, Joran and Deepak


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Scandi on November 29, 2007, 01:27:49 PM
Revised:

She's dead before Deepak scours his car, that just makes sense. Neighbor said 1:30.
Someone with access to a boat has been contacted and a plan devised to get a crab trap and dump her in the ocean. The guys have agreed to meet the contact at the beach to get a crab trap so her body wouldn't wash ashore.
They're hiding and waiting at 2:30. A crab trap wouldn't fit in Deepak's car, would it? The contact will haul it.
Whoever they are waiting for is met and they go to the beach to get a crab trap. Puts Deepak at the beach @ 3:00.
By 4:00, Joran's home.

Very interesting Crazybabyborg, 

I just wonder if they really took her out into the ocean that night.  I remember Dompig on American TV saying a boat was known to have gone out the following night after she went missing, from the input {which is not far from the spot where Dave found the wooden cross by the beach}.

The Holloways came to town 2 days after she went missing and arrived around 3 - 4am as I remember.  If Joran and Deepak took off around say midnight and with the boat skipper friend loaded the cage {which had been stolen the night before along with a knife and ROPE} with Natalee inside and took her out, they would be back in an hour or so I would think if they did go 3 miles out which is out of the bay and into the ocean.

Remember Beth commented that Deepak and Joran didn't look dressed to be out in a bar?  That fits for me, as when they got back from dropping her, they went to the casino which is where Papa Sloot got ahold of Joran to get home as the Holloways were there.

Just thinking, but things do seem to fit using this scenario together with yours.  xox


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Getagrip on November 29, 2007, 01:29:13 PM
Yet, if indeed the lobster trap was used...wasn't it at the fishermen's huts area? They may not have left the beach. I'm not sure that they would have taken her to the VDS home if Joran sneaked out that night. I don't discount that they may have taken her elsewhere.

It's just so hard to pinpoint what's a fact and what's not...the car washing, the gardener, etc. It's very difficult to establish a timeline when one or more of these facts may not be a fact at all.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 29, 2007, 01:30:11 PM
From Greta's blog:

November 29th, 2007 1:11 PM Eastern
Another Email From OTR Producer in Aruba
by Greta Van Susteren
 OTR Producer Tim Silfies just sent me this email…..he is outside the courthouse in Aruba.

From: Silfies, Tim
To: Van Susteren, Greta; Tarrant, Angela
Sent: Thu Nov 29 12:13:26 2007
Subject: Aruba

Joran’s motion is over. Hans left without speaking. Joran’s lawyer spoke on his way to the car. Said “they have nothing…..Joran was questioned as recently as last night”. A Dutch reporter told us that in Dutch, the lawyer said that the new evidence is “based mostly on a mistranslation between Dutch and Papiamento

DON’T FORGET: a ship is headed to Aruba from the USA with high tech research equipment.  Last night we did a segment on this new search effort…and we are monitoring the search effort.  Watch ON THE RECORD for all the latest.  The searchers seem to think that with the sophistication of this equipment, they could find very important clues.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/



REMINDER:  Don't be fooled by defense attorneys  :wink:

Well, mistranlations between Dutch & Papiamento is no surprise, here.  How many times have we said that? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: igsigs on November 29, 2007, 01:32:12 PM
Grip - Trial is coming

The standard for re-arrest at this time was very high - we are told. That alone is a strong indicator. IMO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 01:35:21 PM
I think it was Stom that mentioned earlier that Satish needs representation the most because he's the most involved, but I think it's the opposite. Satish is only an element in this because there's no way he'll testify against his brother.

IIRC, the friendship was between Joran and Deepak, despite the fact that Joran and Satish are closer in age. Joran used Deepak for transportation, Deepak used Joran to get girls. The accusations that were flying at the beginning were between Deepak and Joran, Satish was pretty much left out of the situation.

Sorry if this sounds obvious, but perhaps I need to verbalize it for my own sake:

- if Deepak alone, or along w/ Satish was responsible, Joran and daddy would have very handily hung them out to dry from the very beginning. No dice because one or both would provide details as to Joran's involvement

- if Joran alone was responsible, both brothers would have cooperated with investigators to clear this matter up

The above leads me to conclude that both Joran and one or both of the brothers are involved. With what we know about the friendship (stated above) and just in general, Satish's demeanor and behavior, I'm pretty convinced Deepak is the culpable Kalpoe.

Now, if the new evidence is audio obtained via bugging of the Kalpoe house, and it was enough to detain Joran for 16 days total (8+8), does this mean that the Kalpoes will be detained for an additional 8?  They're not talking, right? At this point, it may not matter if they continue to be detained or not, because the purpose of the detention is to make them talk.

The only thing that really matters is if Mos really has the goods to take this to court. OTOH, why would he have gone ahead with the detention orders and start the media circus all over again? Does he have enough for detaining them the additional 30 days, at which point they would be jailed up to the arbitrary decision date of 12/31?

As you can see, I'm confused and the more I type the more confused I get  :roll: :lol:

Yes the main perps are Joran and Deepak.  Satish knows what happened because he witnessed it.  From his statement "How is the girl".  He would not know to ask unless he saw something.

At some point this case would have to be closed.  What better way to do it then to have a prosecutor who is also a media expert.  If they would have just closed this case everyone would be up in arms.  So now they are making it look like they are truly doing an investigation and their final decision will be there is not enough evidence to charge them with the murder.

For a prosecutor to come out and say we know she is dead he better have overwhelming evidence (like a confession) because if not they will be released.

I'm still watching this carefully.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 29, 2007, 01:36:37 PM
Revised:

She's dead before Deepak scours his car, that just makes sense. Neighbor said 1:30.
Someone with access to a boat has been contacted and a plan devised to get a crab trap and dump her in the ocean. The guys have agreed to meet the contact at the beach to get a crab trap so her body wouldn't wash ashore.
They're hiding and waiting at 2:30. A crab trap wouldn't fit in Deepak's car, would it? The contact will haul it.
Whoever they are waiting for is met and they go to the beach to get a crab trap. Puts Deepak at the beach @ 3:00.
By 4:00, Joran's home.

Very interesting Crazybabyborg, 

I just wonder if they really took her out into the ocean that night.  I remember Dompig on American TV saying a boat was known to have gone out the following night after she went missing, from the input {which is not far from the spot where Dave found the wooden cross by the beach}.

The Holloways came to town 2 days after she went missing and arrived around 3 - 4am as I remember.  If Joran and Deepak took off around say midnight and with the boat skipper friend loaded the cage {which had been stolen the night before along with a knife and ROPE} with Natalee inside and took her out, they would be back in an hour or so I would think if they did go 3 miles out which is out of the bay and into the ocean.

Remember Beth commented that Deepak and Joran didn't look dressed to be out in a bar?  That fits for me, as when they got back from dropping her, they went to the casino which is where Papa Sloot got ahold of Joran to get home as the Holloways were there.

Just thinking, but things do seem to fit using this scenario together with yours.  xox

another thought... they did not necessarily have to make final disposal that night. from leaving c&c's, they had 24 hours and another dark night to work with (the next night, just prior to group's arrival) temporary burial could very well have been used until next evening.  that night could have been used for alibis and incriminating evidence gathering (into bag for raquet club drop-off). IIRC, boat ride with koen took place the next evening - is this correct?
asking someone, not directly involved, would take more than a 3am call. may take a sit down meeting to convince a good friend to get involved with such a crime.

contradictory to my previous paragraph - why was paulus' atm card used in the middle of the night if i am supposing final burial took place the next night.

i, too, can spin my head in circles with theories - some contradictory of the previous.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Scandi on November 29, 2007, 01:38:55 PM
I think it was Stom that mentioned earlier that Satish needs representation the most because he's the most involved, but I think it's the opposite. Satish is only an element in this because there's no way he'll testify against his brother.

IIRC, the friendship was between Joran and Deepak, despite the fact that Joran and Satish are closer in age. Joran used Deepak for transportation, Deepak used Joran to get girls. The accusations that were flying at the beginning were between Deepak and Joran, Satish was pretty much left out of the situation.

Sorry if this sounds obvious, but perhaps I need to verbalize it for my own sake:

- if Deepak alone, or along w/ Satish was responsible, Joran and daddy would have very handily hung them out to dry from the very beginning. No dice because one or both would provide details as to Joran's involvement

- if Joran alone was responsible, both brothers would have cooperated with investigators to clear this matter up

The above leads me to conclude that both Joran and one or both of the brothers are involved. With what we know about the friendship (stated above) and just in general, Satish's demeanor and behavior, I'm pretty convinced Deepak is the culpable Kalpoe.

Now, if the new evidence is audio obtained via bugging of the Kalpoe house, and it was enough to detain Joran for 16 days total (8+8), does this mean that the Kalpoes will be detained for an additional 8?  They're not talking, right? At this point, it may not matter if they continue to be detained or not, because the purpose of the detention is to make them talk.

The only thing that really matters is if Mos really has the goods to take this to court. OTOH, why would he have gone ahead with the detention orders and start the media circus all over again? Does he have enough for detaining them the additional 30 days, at which point they would be jailed up to the arbitrary decision date of 12/31?

As you can see, I'm confused and the more I type the more confused I get  :roll: :lol:

Hi Getagrip,  There are 2 things I remember, first that Satish and Joran were friends originally and second that the gardener did not recognize Deepak in the car.  He saw Joran in the drivers seat and Satish I think in the passenger sear, and couldn't recognize the guy in the back seat {I could be wrong about that last part about where Satish was sitting}.  Now this is from reading links back in 2005, so who knows if it is true or not ;}


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Getagrip on November 29, 2007, 01:39:10 PM
Grip - Trial is coming

The standard for re-arrest at this time was very high - we are told. That alone is a strong indicator. IMO


I knew I could count on you to make me feel better  :cool:

Does anyone still have the school's exam schedule or remember whether Joran had an exam that same morning? I think it was Tacopina or Cruella de Ville who said (quoting la Renfro?) that he had an exam and aced it. I know that people I spoke to told me that Joran was sleeping in class that day...and arubagirl had also stated the same at the beginning from people who were in school with him that day.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: NYC_lover on November 29, 2007, 01:40:14 PM
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Metro112907.jpg)

http://metropoint.metro.lu/20071129_Amsterdam.pdf


I'll see if I can translate this.  Looks like Peter de Vries is talking about the recent arrests.  I know he re-aired his show last night I think.

RETRANSMISSION PETER R. REPEATED OF OF THE DITCH

SBS6 the reportage repeats that peter R. de Vries a year ago for its crime programme made concerning Joran of of the ditch on 2 December. According to de Vries is with the recent arrest of the boy need for duiding in the matter.

For the reportage de Vries in 2006 research, on Aruba. With people concerned confidential discussions were conducted, which produced revealing insights concerning the disappearance of the American Natalee Holloway.

Peter R. de Vries: "In the media show of the previous days it is too much speculated people who see through no knowledge of matter. Our report from a year ago stands and is dead straight intact


In other words - de Vries stands behind his show and the research he did a year ago.

PS - to our Dutch posters...I know "ditch" is Sloot.  I like leaving it as "ditch", lol  :lol:

Very great Klaasend!!  :D  :D :wink:
And yes indeed, in another words - Peter stands behind his show and the research he did a year ago.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 01:41:53 PM
Grip - Trial is coming

The standard for re-arrest at this time was very high - we are told. That alone is a strong indicator. IMO


I knew I could count on you to make me feel better  :cool:

Does anyone still have the school's exam schedule or remember whether Joran had an exam that same morning? I think it was Tacopina or Cruella de Ville who said (quoting la Renfro?) that he had an exam and aced it. I know that people I spoke to told me that Joran was sleeping in class that day...and arubagirl had also stated the same at the beginning from people who were in school with him that day.

There were no exams that day.  The exams didn't start until the following week.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Frank on November 29, 2007, 01:42:17 PM
refresh my memory, what did his research find?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: igsigs on November 29, 2007, 01:43:58 PM
Grip - Trial is coming

The standard for re-arrest at this time was very high - we are told. That alone is a strong indicator. IMO


I knew I could count on you to make me feel better  :cool:

Does anyone still have the school's exam schedule or remember whether Joran had an exam that same morning? I think it was Tacopina or Cruella de Ville who said (quoting la Renfro?) that he had an exam and aced it. I know that people I spoke to told me that Joran was sleeping in class that day...and arubagirl had also stated the same at the beginning from people who were in school with him that day.

It's been downgraded to a practice test (book). Whether he was awake or not while taking it is unknown.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 29, 2007, 01:44:39 PM
Janet, you are wonderful!

Deepak washing his car 1:30

Gardner saw them parked across from the beach @ 2:30  (waiting for someone?)

Deepak at beach @ 3:00 (Don't know who else is with him)

Joran home @ 4:00

I'm just pulling threads off the top of my head here, but.........
She's dead before Deepak scours his car, that just makes sense.
They're hiding and waiting at 2:30. That would mean they are in disposal of the body mode.
Natalee was in the car?
Whoever they are waiting for is met and they go to the beach to recover anything that may have been left, or to get a crab trap. Puts Deepak at the beach @ 3:00.
By 4:00, she's been buried, or taken out to the ocean.

Help me guys. What am I missing?

I don't think she was moved to the ocean until the next night which would be the night Beth arrived on the island and went to the Sloot home and Paulus was very sweaty...again.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Getagrip on November 29, 2007, 01:45:40 PM

There were no exams that day.  The exams didn't start until the following week.
Thanks, that gives me one more reason to be confident in discounting anything they say ;)

I did like how JT (nice man-necklace) had to backtrack and say there were bugged conversations in the 'new evidence'. It may very well be that only 5 - 10% of the evidence is new, but that 5 - 10% may just be incriminating enough to close the deal *crosses fingers*


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 29, 2007, 01:46:41 PM
Seems like Joran does not expect to be released anytime soon - making all these requests to improve the conditions in his new *home*.

We already know his next hearing isn't until December 7th, so he should have plenty of time to read his bible.

Lmao Klaas...crack me up. :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 01:47:38 PM
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/ISAFinalExamDates2005.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 29, 2007, 01:47:47 PM
Janet, you are wonderful!

Deepak washing his car 1:30

Gardner saw them parked across from the beach @ 2:30  (waiting for someone?)

Deepak at beach @ 3:00 (Don't know who else is with him)

Joran home @ 4:00

I'm just pulling threads off the top of my head here, but.........
She's dead before Deepak scours his car, that just makes sense.
They're hiding and waiting at 2:30. That would mean they are in disposal of the body mode.
Natalee was in the car?
Whoever they are waiting for is met and they go to the beach to recover anything that may have been left, or to get a crab trap. Puts Deepak at the beach @ 3:00.
By 4:00, she's been buried, or taken out to the ocean.

Help me guys. What am I missing?

I don't think she was moved to the ocean until the next night which would be the night Beth arrived on the island and went to the Sloot home and Paulus was very sweaty...again.

nut - are you saying the next day from her(NH) expiration or two days from her(NH)?? expiration.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Getagrip on November 29, 2007, 01:47:55 PM
It's been downgraded to a practice test (book). Whether he was awake or not while taking it is unknown.
:lol: :lol: :lol:



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: igsigs on November 29, 2007, 01:53:25 PM
refresh my memory, what did his research find?

I could never find out what DeVries' conclusion was - not for lack of trying.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 01:54:00 PM
refresh my memory, what did his research find?

That Joran is guilty - that the beach story was BS - that Joran took Natalee to his house.

The only contravercial part of his show is when he showed a copy of a PV where a witness (my guess is one of Renfro's pals) had made a statement about seeing Natalee do drugs.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 01:55:11 PM
After C&C's: Go to Joran's. Satish goes home. Maybe Deepak AND Satish go home. Freddy is at Joran's.

Natalee dies.

Joran calls Kalpoe/s setting off the car washing: 1:30 Quick plan devised to get a trap, put her in it, and dump her in the ocean.

Contact is made to someone who can haul the trap and take her out to sea.

Kalpoe/s pick Joran up to get the trap. Too risky to have the body with them. They are seen waiting for the contact @ 2:30.

They break into the hut and get the trap. Deepak is at the beach at 3:00. They load the trap into the contact's truck/SUV. Either Joran goes back home with the contact and Kalpoes go home, or rides back home with Kalpoes and then Kalpoes go home. They start establishing their alibis as soon as they are home.

Body is collected at Joran's, and taken by contact to a boat where she is dumped at sea.

Joran is home @ 4:00 establishing an alibi.

Freddy knows it all.

I have always struggled with whether the body was disposed of permenantly that same night. I tentively think it was. The ATM withdrawel, and the theft of the crab trap lend themselves to it. I'm of the opinion that for Joran's crowd, involvement in crime wasn't so foreign as to cause the kind of pause that any of us would face. Even if it was disposed of that night, there was still much to do. Someone thought quickly to have Deepak/Satish clean the car. Joran's whole apartment would require the same scrutiny, and there would be disposal of anything with blood. His shoes were problematic in some way as well. There was still much to do. I have also wondered if maybe Natalee wasn't raped and injured in Deepak's car, then taken to Joran's. Lots to figure out.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 29, 2007, 01:57:46 PM
Buckshot...I mean apx. 24 hours after. Let's say she expired at 1:15 am on the morning of  May 30th. She was buried or 'stored' (geeeeeeezeeeee I hate saying it like that) somewhere but NOT taken to the ocean until the early morning hours (say 2:00 amish) on the 31st. I think we all agree she was moved at LEAST once and possibly twice before they took her to the sea.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 02:00:46 PM
It's been downgraded to a practice test (book). Whether he was awake or not while taking it is unknown.
:lol: :lol: :lol:



Oh, Geta, you're mistaken!  :lol: Don't you remember that Rosemary's Baby said yesterday that Joran took an exam at 8:00 the next day and made an "A" on it?   :roll:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: dennisintn on November 29, 2007, 02:01:02 PM
Grip - Trial is coming

The standard for re-arrest at this time was very high - we are told. That alone is a strong indicator. IMO


I knew I could count on you to make me feel better  :cool:

Does anyone still have the school's exam schedule or remember whether Joran had an exam that same morning? I think it was Tacopina or Cruella de Ville who said (quoting la Renfro?) that he had an exam and aced it. I know that people I spoke to told me that Joran was sleeping in class that day...and arubagirl had also stated the same at the beginning from people who were in school with him that day.

i remember seeing the isa schedule for that period of time and i'm sure the final exams were listed for the following week.  he might have had an exam scheduled for that monday but his actions on sunday night sure don't show any preparations for having one.  i personally think it's another lie from anita.
dennisintn


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Scandi on November 29, 2007, 02:01:04 PM
Revised:

She's dead before Deepak scours his car, that just makes sense. Neighbor said 1:30.
Someone with access to a boat has been contacted and a plan devised to get a crab trap and dump her in the ocean. The guys have agreed to meet the contact at the beach to get a crab trap so her body wouldn't wash ashore.
They're hiding and waiting at 2:30. A crab trap wouldn't fit in Deepak's car, would it? The contact will haul it.
Whoever they are waiting for is met and they go to the beach to get a crab trap. Puts Deepak at the beach @ 3:00.
By 4:00, Joran's home.

Very interesting Crazybabyborg, 

I just wonder if they really took her out into the ocean that night.  I remember Dompig on American TV saying a boat was known to have gone out the following night after she went missing, from the input {which is not far from the spot where Dave found the wooden cross by the beach}.

The Holloways came to town 2 days after she went missing and arrived around 3 - 4am as I remember.  If Joran and Deepak took off around say midnight and with the boat skipper friend loaded the cage {which had been stolen the night before along with a knife and ROPE} with Natalee inside and took her out, they would be back in an hour or so I would think if they did go 3 miles out which is out of the bay and into the ocean.

Remember Beth commented that Deepak and Joran didn't look dressed to be out in a bar?  That fits for me, as when they got back from dropping her, they went to the casino which is where Papa Sloot got ahold of Joran to get home as the Holloways were there.

Just thinking, but things do seem to fit using this scenario together with yours.  xox

another thought... they did not necessarily have to make final disposal that night. from leaving c&c's, they had 24 hours and another dark night to work with (the next night, just prior to group's arrival) temporary burial could very well have been used until next evening.  that night could have been used for alibis and incriminating evidence gathering (into bag for raquet club drop-off). IIRC, boat ride with koen took place the next evening - is this correct?
asking someone, not directly involved, would take more than a 3am call. may take a sit down meeting to convince a good friend to get involved with such a crime.

contradictory to my previous paragraph - why was paulus' atm card used in the middle of the night if i am supposing final burial took place the next night.

i, too, can spin my head in circles with theories - some contradictory of the previous.

How Funny Buckshot!  It is tricky to put everything together for one thing if you use links because of the changing story that was told, for one thing, and we didn't learn quite enough anyway!  Posters even poo-pooed the gardeners story, but I am thinking Jossy was right and he was truthful.

Did the meeting of the 3 with Paulus take place the afternoon of the day she went missing?  I thinks so, and that could be when the plan was effected by Paulus with the boys.  I am thinking that as someone here just said, Deepak and Joran went back to the beach to temporarily bury her by the Fisherman's Huts after calling Paulus to let him know what had happened.  They knew Steve Croes could be hired to take her out to sea, and possibly in anticipation of that, Paulus went to the ATM machine that early am to get cash to pay him.  Steve was reported to have broken into the Huts and stole the things that were missing that early morning - a police report I believe, or was reported by them.  And I think Steve was the one they were waiting for to meet at the racquet club, who did put the stolen things in the bushes around that pond realizing he needed to have more time to get the boat ready and everything prepared to make the trip out into the ocean.  I think something stopped them from taking her out that night, plus there was no boat that went out that night acc to Dompig as it was the following night,

I think Croes was the one who helped in disposal, as having stole the fishing cage and accoutrements, he then made a phone call to the Sloot house around 6:30am that same morning from the south side of the island, supposedly from Max's home.  I can not find that in a link for the life of me, but do remember reading it.  And remember Steve was away from his ship that night from what we learned.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 02:04:10 PM
I'm cracking up.............  :lol: :lol: :lol:

What a team!

Rosemary's Baby Jerksapenis.

 :D :D :lol: :lol: :lol:

sorry, I'll get a grip...............


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 29, 2007, 02:05:12 PM
TES finding the body would have a lot of people shitting in their pants right on the spot, now wouldn't it !!!

if the three current suspects are released next week, i think the there will be major public uproar. i hope this is not a case, as someone else suggested, of a media friendly prosecutor who will tell the public, 'well, we tried, and there is simply not enough evidence to convict"

this could also be a staged resolution to the case to salvage whatever tourism dollars may still exist.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 29, 2007, 02:05:17 PM

Tamikosmom's musings ... musings that include all seven detained  suspects as well as Freddy.

Janet

++++++++++++++++

OCKHAM'S RAZOR
"You must never fail to adopt the simplest idea as your working hypothesis. If necessity demands, you can dump it later when you have more data, but only because it is no longer the simplest idea" or "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity."



1.  Freddy is waiting at the VDS' residence ... with his camera ... when Satish, Deepak and Joran arrive with a drugged Natalee after leaving Carlos 'N Charles'.

2.  Guido arrives in his own vehicle at the same time.

3.  In an attempt to escape a gang rape Natalee sustains a head injury.

4.  As the sexual assault ensues Natalee appears to pass out.

5.  The decision is made to take Natalee to the beach where she can sleep it off and ... make her own way to the HI in time to catch her flight back home.

6.  Guido leaves the picture.

7.  Joran, Deepak and Freddy ... enroute to the beach ... drop off Satish off at home.

8.  Deepak drops off Joran, Freddy and a "passed out" Natalee at the beach while he parks his vehicle a short distance away at the tennis club.

9.  However ... Freddy and Joran realize that Natalee is deceased. 

10.  Leaving a deceased Natalee on the beach ... Joran and Freddy run across the street to where Deepak is waiting in his vehicle.

11.  A panicked discussion ensues.  When it is considered that Joran, Deepak and Satish were observed leaving Carlos 'n Charlie's  ... the injury and the DNA evidence on Natalee's person could be very incriminating.

12.  Paulus is contacted.

13.  The gardener enters the picture.  He observes Joran, Deepak and Freddy in the parked vehicle.

14.  Paulus arrives and ... accesses the situation.

15.  Assistance in moving a deceased Natalee is required.  GVC and Steve Croes are contacted.

16.  Deepak, Joran and Freddy leave the scene.

+++++++++++++++++


i like the train of thought, but... where does cleaning kalpoe car come in to play??


I speculate that Paulus contacted Steve Croes and GVC to assist with the moving of Natalee's remains from the beach and ... then sent Deepak and Freddy home.  Joran stayed a while and then Paulus decided to sent him home walking and ... this is when he called Deepak.  The reasoning for sending Deepak, Freddy and then Joran away ... if any of them talked ... No Body; No Case.

The following words of Deepak in the Jamie Skeeters' interview tells me that that Joran and Deepak knew that Natalee was deceased but ... unaware of where her remains could be located.

Janet

+++++++++++

Deepak Kalpoe
DEEPAK/SKEETERS INTERVIEW


We don’t know where the body is.

If I knew where the body is, I would tell them a long time ago.


David Kock - Satish's Attorney
On the Record w/ Greta
August 24, 2005


GRETA VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So your client, 2 o'clock to 3 o'clock, is on the Internet at home. I've been in his room. I've seen the computer, or at least where it was. And he gets phone calls at 2:40 and 3 a.m. from Joran. Where do the cell records place the phone that Joran is using at 2:40 and 3 o'clock in the morning?

DAVID KOCK, SATISH KALPOE'S ATTORNEY:: Well, there's not an exact pinpoint indication, but the general area is the area here in north in Palm Beach of the hotel.

VAN SUSTEREN: So it looks like he's not home at that hour, but someplace near the Marriott, is that right?

KOCK: That is correct. He is in this neighborhood.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there any explanation as to how he got from the hotel to his home?

KOCK: No, other than what my client stated that he heard or was told by Joran, is that he went home walking. But you know, we don't have any way to verify it. As I indicated in the past, on the path from here to his house, there are certain banks, gas stations, et cetera, that have video cameras that are filming the street. But they just keep them for a couple of days. So by the time the police went there to ask to get these videotapes, they were already wiped out. So you know, we cannot confirm it by any other means.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 29, 2007, 02:07:45 PM
No, no. Deepak wouldn't wash his car and then put her back in it. Someone else picks up Natalee after she's dead, and the boy's job is to get the trap, then meet the boat where she's been taken.

That fish trap would have to be put in a truck.  Who had the truck?  Paulus?  Steve Crose?

If you look at one of the pictures of Steve Croes' house there is a blue pickup truck parked there.  This truck would fit a trap and a body.


I would think they would want to use something more enclosed, like say.....a van?? Now who has a van? Lorenzo has a van.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 02:09:02 PM
Janet, again, you are invaluable! Thanks for reminding us of what we know and can't remember!  :lol:

OK. That calls for revision.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 29, 2007, 02:09:17 PM
Revised:

She's dead before Deepak scours his car, that just makes sense. Neighbor said 1:30.
Someone with access to a boat has been contacted and a plan devised to get a crab trap and dump her in the ocean. The guys have agreed to meet the contact at the beach to get a crab trap so her body wouldn't wash ashore.
They're hiding and waiting at 2:30. A crab trap wouldn't fit in Deepak's car, would it? The contact will haul it.
Whoever they are waiting for is met and they go to the beach to get a crab trap. Puts Deepak at the beach @ 3:00.
By 4:00, Joran's home.

Very interesting Crazybabyborg, 

I just wonder if they really took her out into the ocean that night.  I remember Dompig on American TV saying a boat was known to have gone out the following night after she went missing, from the input {which is not far from the spot where Dave found the wooden cross by the beach}.

The Holloways came to town 2 days after she went missing and arrived around 3 - 4am as I remember.  If Joran and Deepak took off around say midnight and with the boat skipper friend loaded the cage {which had been stolen the night before along with a knife and ROPE} with Natalee inside and took her out, they would be back in an hour or so I would think if they did go 3 miles out which is out of the bay and into the ocean.

Remember Beth commented that Deepak and Joran didn't look dressed to be out in a bar?  That fits for me, as when they got back from dropping her, they went to the casino which is where Papa Sloot got ahold of Joran to get home as the Holloways were there.

Just thinking, but things do seem to fit using this scenario together with yours.  xox

another thought... they did not necessarily have to make final disposal that night. from leaving c&c's, they had 24 hours and another dark night to work with (the next night, just prior to group's arrival) temporary burial could very well have been used until next evening.  that night could have been used for alibis and incriminating evidence gathering (into bag for raquet club drop-off). IIRC, boat ride with koen took place the next evening - is this correct?
asking someone, not directly involved, would take more than a 3am call. may take a sit down meeting to convince a good friend to get involved with such a crime.

contradictory to my previous paragraph - why was paulus' atm card used in the middle of the night if i am supposing final burial took place the next night.

i, too, can spin my head in circles with theories - some contradictory of the previous.

How Funny Buckshot!  It is tricky to put everything together for one thing if you use links because of the changing story that was told, for one thing, and we didn't learn quite enough anyway!  Posters even poo-pooed the gardeners story, but I am thinking Jossy was right and he was truthful.

Did the meeting of the 3 with Paulus take place the afternoon of the day she went missing?  I thinks so, and that could be when the plan was effected by Paulus with the boys.  I am thinking that as someone here just said, Deepak and Joran went back to the beach to temporarily bury her by the Fisherman's Huts after calling Paulus to let him know what had happened.  They knew Steve Croes could be hired to take her out to sea, and possibly in anticipation of that, Paulus went to the ATM machine that early am to get cash to pay him.  Steve was reported to have broken into the Huts and stole the things that were missing that early morning - a police report I believe, or was reported by them.  And I think Steve was the one they were waiting for to meet at the racquet club, who did put the stolen things in the bushes around that pond realizing he needed to have more time to get the boat ready and everything prepared to make the trip out into the ocean.  I think something stopped them from taking her out that night, plus there was no boat that went out that night acc to Dompig as it was the following night,

I think Croes was the one who helped in disposal, as having stole the fishing cage and accoutrements, he then made a phone call to the Sloot house around 6:30am that same morning from the south side of the island, supposedly from Max's home.  I can not find that in a link for the life of me, but do remember reading it.  And remember Steve was away from his ship that night from what we learned.



has it ever officially been confirmed that croes was the one who broke into FH and stole trap and knife? or deductive logic? just curious...

also, it is hard to think those involved would be stupid enough to use beach at FH to temporarily bury NH. seems to "out in the open" for an unknowing tourist to stumble upon.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 02:12:13 PM
If you go with every rumor that has been reported on the internet, it will drive you nuts!

I don't think that there has even been absolute proof of Paulus making an ATM withdrawal, just media and internet rumor.

Involvement of others remains speculation at best.

It will just take you in circles.  I am going to wait and see what Hans says happened.

Have waited this long, what's another thirty days?

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 29, 2007, 02:14:11 PM
It's been downgraded to a practice test (book). Whether he was awake or not while taking it is unknown.
:lol: :lol: :lol:



And it is also very easy to ACE an exam that you never took (http://bestsmileys.com/school/3.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 02:15:46 PM
TES finding the body would have a lot of people shitting in their pants right on the spot, now wouldn't it !!!

if the three current suspects are released next week, i think the there will be major public uproar. i hope this is not a case, as someone else suggested, of a media friendly prosecutor who will tell the public, 'well, we tried, and there is simply not enough evidence to convict"

this could also be a staged resolution to the case to salvage whatever tourism dollars may still exist.

I agree.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 29, 2007, 02:16:51 PM
I'm cracking up.............  :lol: :lol: :lol:

What a team!

Rosemary's Baby Jerksapenis.

 :D :D :lol: :lol: :lol:

sorry, I'll get a grip...............


OMG you are cracking me up too!!! :smt052


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Getagrip on November 29, 2007, 02:17:28 PM
I'm cracking up.............  :lol: :lol: :lol:

What a team!

Rosemary's Baby Jerksapenis.

 :D :D :lol: :lol: :lol:

sorry, I'll get a grip...............

Indeed. Does the other guy have a pet name? I can't even remember his real name, I just know he didn't seem overly enthusiastic in his role and haven't seen him since.

My head is swimming right now with all the rehashing of old info. Although it makes me feel good to know for a fact that the acing of exams while sleeping is a total crock. 



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Scandi on November 29, 2007, 02:17:53 PM
Buckshot...I mean apx. 24 hours after. Let's say she expired at 1:15 am on the morning of  May 30th. She was buried or 'stored' (geeeeeeezeeeee I hate saying it like that) somewhere but NOT taken to the ocean until the early morning hours (say 2:00 amish) on the 31st. I think we all agree she was moved at LEAST once and possibly twice before they took her to the sea.

ITA Nut,  The confusion comes in that it was late night on the 29th when they went to C&C's, and so in a few hours it was the next day, and 24 hours later would make it 2 days on the calendar from when they went out to party on their final evening in Aruba.  Right?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 29, 2007, 02:18:41 PM
part of me feels that few were directly involved. more people that know a secret, the less likely the secret to remain a secret.

then, another part of me feels that if J2K do not know where the body really is, they can never slip up and give its location.  this line of thinking involves others.

if GVC and Croes get involved - it is just so tough to comprehend paulus or joran approaching them (whether in middle of day or middle of night) and saying 'hey, i have a really bad situation on hand - i really need your help. can you bury / dispose of this body?'.....'sure, i'll do it for xxx dollars'....

if they are asked and don't do it, then they would unnecessarily know the crime had been committed. what are your thoughts on this ??????


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 29, 2007, 02:20:25 PM
No, no. Deepak wouldn't wash his car and then put her back in it. Someone else picks up Natalee after she's dead, and the boy's job is to get the trap, then meet the boat where she's been taken.

That fish trap would have to be put in a truck.  Who had the truck?  Paulus?  Steve Crose?

If you look at one of the pictures of Steve Croes' house there is a blue pickup truck parked there.  This truck would fit a trap and a body.


I would think they would want to use something more enclosed, like say.....a van?? Now who has a van? Lorenzo has a van.


Wasn't Lorenzo's van spotted in or around the Sloot compound sometime over the two day period or was that just another internet rumor...??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 02:21:05 PM
Posted by Lazlo at RU:

Lazlo Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:10 pm   
Joe confirmes on Greta: The houses were bugged.

Joe on Greta last night, about the new evidence: they put bugs in the houses of the suspects at different times.

Greta-JoeT clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHmDqS0dOkc

There seems to be thousands of pages from the tapped phones and bugs. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 02:21:18 PM
If you go with every rumor that has been reported on the internet, it will drive you nuts!

I don't think that there has even been absolute proof of Paulus making an ATM withdrawal, just media and internet rumor.

Involvement of others remains speculation at best.

It will just take you in circles.  I am going to wait and see what Hans says happened.

Have waited this long, what's another thirty days?

.

I can wait Anna.  This is why I say I'm still watching.

Why is it we hear about Joran's complaints.  Because it is what we all want to hear.  They are giving us what we want.  Does anyone really think Joran is suffering in jail.  We don't know that he is suffering at all.  It's part of the plan.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Helen Back on November 29, 2007, 02:22:41 PM
Grip - Trial is coming

The standard for re-arrest at this time was very high - we are told. That alone is a strong indicator. IMO


I knew I could count on you to make me feel better  :cool:

Does anyone still have the school's exam schedule or remember whether Joran had an exam that same morning? I think it was Tacopina or Cruella de Ville who said (quoting la Renfro?) that he had an exam and aced it. I know that people I spoke to told me that Joran was sleeping in class that day...and arubagirl had also stated the same at the beginning from people who were in school with him that day.

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: friend of monkeys on November 29, 2007, 02:25:42 PM





ummmmm...


HEY WIZ!!!!  How u been guy?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: friend of monkeys on November 29, 2007, 02:27:25 PM
Posted by Lazlo at RU:

Lazlo Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:10 pm   
Joe confirmes on Greta: The houses were bugged.

Joe on Greta last night, about the new evidence: they put bugs in the houses of the suspects at different times.

Greta-JoeT clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHmDqS0dOkc

There seems to be thousands of pages from the tapped phones and bugs. 




Thousands????   

NICE
 :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 29, 2007, 02:28:58 PM
If you go with every rumor that has been reported on the internet, it will drive you nuts!

I don't think that there has even been absolute proof of Paulus making an ATM withdrawal, just media and internet rumor.

Involvement of others remains speculation at best.

It will just take you in circles.  I am going to wait and see what Hans says happened.

Have waited this long, what's another thirty days?

.

Hi Anna.

The Superior Court ruling of January, 2007 ... the ruling that denied Paulus compenstion for wrongful detainment ... is not speculative.

Beth, Jug and friends have claimed since day one that Paulus placed himself at the McDonalds in the area of the Marriot Beach on the morning that Natalee went missing.  Paulus claimed that his story was that he picked up Joran at MacDonalds at 11:00 PM on the evening of May 29, 2005.  In reality ... Paulus was discrediting Beth, Jug and Friend ... implying they were all lying.

The Superior Court ruled that Paulus' original declaration stated he was at the McDonalds on the morning  that Natalee went missing.  Inquiring minds want to know "Why the lies?"  As Art Wood stated ... "If you want to know the truth ... follow the lies."   

Janet

++++++++++++++++

Superior Court
January, 2007


“With attention to the lying declarations that the son of Paulus, Joran Andreas Petrus van der Sloot (hereafter Joran) gave about his last contact on the 30th of May 2005 with the disappeared Natalee Holloway, the suspicion is not unreasonable that he made himself guilty of a conduct that can be qualified as murder, manslaughter, or kidnapping that resulted in death.

The possible involvement of Paulus with that could then be deducted from the file with the official reports of witnesses, amongst which two people suggested a contact existed between Paulus and Natalee Holloway the night of her disappearance, and a taped report (that was given by the Prosecutor in her final note 1 to the Court). The taped information and his declaration that he picked up Joran and Natalee by the McDonalds Palm Beach and brought them to the Holiday Inn, are clearly understood by the Dept. of Justice, and could in the judgement of this Superior Court, be considered as an indication of the involvement of Paulus in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.”


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 02:29:35 PM
Why on earth would Paulus contact any of those kids when he had mature, willing friends such as Vocking and vdStratten who would have enough sense to keep their traps shut?

My list of those involved has shrunk over the last year as no one has come forward spilling the beans.  Who would want to live under this cloud for Joran?

Paulus never lost control of things and certainly I can't see him involving a gang of juvenile delinquents in something this career ending.

MO



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: wizard on November 29, 2007, 02:31:18 PM
Confused yet? Try this from thebutlerdidit at BHS:

Try this on for size:

Joran said he called Deepak about 9:30ish to see if he wanted to go out that night. Deepak was supposed to get off work at 10 that night but the customers ran him late until about 11. Satish had Deepak's car at home so Satish was going to pick Deepak up at 10, not 11. Now break to the MB kids statements where they said Joran was with them at the bar at the HI at 9:45-waltzed in at that time- but he only stayed for 5 minutes before he left. That would make it about 9:50 that maybe he got picked up by Satish on his way to go get Deepak at 10.

In the original statments it was said Joran and Satish waited for Deepak to get off work outside the cafe where Deepak worked because they really had no idea when he was actually coming out past 10. They ended up waiting until almost 11.

Based on that, my question is, what did the three of them do from 11 to 12:30? And another question is, why don't they want anyone now to know they were together during that time?

This information about Joran being with Satish outside waiting for Deepak from 10 to 11 went by the wayside when Paulus claimed to have picked Joran up at McD's at 11ish, took him home after which he sneaked back out. I think this could be the first point at which Paulus needed to cover for where Joran really was between 11 and 12:30.

Add more curiosity to this time frame by noting that Madison and Ruth left CC's about 11PM per their statements.

Add more, that after hours parties for the Soul Beach Festival began at 11 and ended at 3AM. SBF parties are often opportunities to meet band members. And if I'm not mistaken, the tickets were $50 which is coincidentally how much Natalee had with her and even more coincidentally that her friends knew what amount of cash Natalee had with her - must have been a reason.

(Don't get confused by the drinks Natalee may have bought with her 50 bucks at CC's. They all had 2 free drinks for that night and with contests you could win more free drinks, shots or jello shots. When Joran says Natalee bought him a drink, it's likely she won a pair of drinks that she shared with Joran.)

So where did they really go between 11 and 12:30?

****

Put this weirdness together -

Joran thought Madison was pretty. Joran helped Ruth win back some money. Joran gets invited to CC's by Nat's roommates, not Natalee. He tells them CC's is boring on Sundays, but yet the girls are confused (yeah right) as to why he showed up there anyway. Joran told the K's he met some girls, but when he gets to CC's at 12:30 two of those girls are gone since R and M left about 11, yet one of them -Ruth- tells Joran to Go to Natalee, She fancies him.

Where was Ruth when she told Joran this? Could they have all been at a party where Joran discovers that both Ruth and Madison have boyfriends/dates and Ruth suggests he go get Natalee? And could Joran have only met the girls at CC's at 11 to lead them to a more fun place like a SBF party? Then he goes back to CC's at Ruth's behest to get Natalee?

(There was also confusion over whether or not Joran spoke with one of Natalee's roommates when he entered CC's. One story says yes, the other says no. This could very easily mean Joran entered CC's twice and the first time he communicated with one of Natalee's roommates, about 11, just before she left 'with him' to be led to the party?)

Then Natalee asks one of her classmates, Ali A, if she wants to go with her with some guys she met. She can't get dates for 1 or 2 K's so she ends up alone with all three, going where?

Maybe to that party that they never went to because 2K were dateless? Or maybe 2K dropped J and N off at the party, The House, after 2K got bored of driving around. Recall Deepak or Satish saying to Joran they were bored so let's go to The House. Or maybe once at The House 2K were no longer bored and stayed too.

I don't know. It's just all food for thought and like a big ole game of charades trying to figure out things from so many seemingly meaningless clues that might really shed light on where Joran really went with Natalee that night. Like for example, maybe the MB girls told Joran they'd be at CC's so he could come there to lead them to a party he knew of, not so he could come to boring Sunday CC's. They are not going to tell on themselves if they went to a Rave party.

But one thing is sure; Lee AB said on AMW that she was still having flashbacks when she was at a party scene so bad she had to leave the party. Makes a person wonder what scared her so badly at a party, doesn't it? Read up on PTSD (post traumatic stress syndrome)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 02:34:16 PM
If you go with every rumor that has been reported on the internet, it will drive you nuts!

I don't think that there has even been absolute proof of Paulus making an ATM withdrawal, just media and internet rumor.

Involvement of others remains speculation at best.

It will just take you in circles.  I am going to wait and see what Hans says happened.

Have waited this long, what's another thirty days?

.

Hi Anna.

The Superior Court ruling of January, 2007 ... the ruling that denied Paulus compenstion for wrongful detainment ... is not speculative.

Beth, Jug and friends have claimed since day one that Paulus placed himself at the McDonalds in the area of the Marriot Beach on the morning that Natalee went missing.  Paulus claimed that his story was that he picked up Joran at MacDonalds at 11:00 PM on the evening of May 29, 2005.  In reality ... Paulus was discrediting Beth, Jug and Friend ... implying they were all lying.

The Superior Court ruled that Paulus' original declaration stated he was at the McDonalds on the morning  that Natalee went missing.  Inquiring minds want to know "Why the lies?"  As Art Wood stated ... "If you want to know the truth ... follow the lies."  

Janet

++++++++++++++++

Superior Court
January, 2007


“With attention to the lying declarations that the son of Paulus, Joran Andreas Petrus van der Sloot (hereafter Joran) gave about his last contact on the 30th of May 2005 with the disappeared Natalee Holloway, the suspicion is not unreasonable that he made himself guilty of a conduct that can be qualified as murder, manslaughter, or kidnapping that resulted in death.

The possible involvement of Paulus with that could then be deducted from the file with the official reports of witnesses, amongst which two people suggested a contact existed between Paulus and Natalee Holloway the night of her disappearance, and a taped report (that was given by the Prosecutor in her final note 1 to the Court). The taped information and his declaration that he picked up Joran and Natalee by the McDonalds Palm Beach and brought them to the Holiday Inn, are clearly understood by the Dept. of Justice, and could in the judgement of this Superior Court, be considered as an indication of the involvement of Paulus in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.”


It does not say that Paulus was at McDonald's but only that he said that he was.

Paulus was trying to get the HI story to stick, I suspect.  He is lying to try to exonerate his son, of course.  He is also hoping to frame the security guards with his claims.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 29, 2007, 02:35:37 PM
popping in real quick, my little guy still real sick so no time to read back...any breaking news?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 29, 2007, 02:36:20 PM
Posted by Lazlo at RU:

Lazlo Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:10 pm   
Joe confirmes on Greta: The houses were bugged.

Joe on Greta last night, about the new evidence: they put bugs in the houses of the suspects at different times.

Greta-JoeT clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHmDqS0dOkc

There seems to be thousands of pages from the tapped phones and bugs. 


I speculate maybe ... just maybe ... a judge ... one of Paulus' friends and/or associates ... will rule that the "new" evidence is not admissible ... the wiretapping is illegal under Dutch law.

CASE CLOSED!!

Janet.

++++++++++++++

Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
October 4, 2005


GRACE: … Jossy, regarding the connection, what I perceived to be a close connection between the judge, Paulus Van Der Sloot and the retired chief of police who initially handled Natalee`s case, Van Der Stratten, were they friends?

MANSUR: Of course, they were friends. It stands to reason they were friends because Paul Van Der Sloot had many friends within the police department; he had many friends within the Department of Justice. And he had many friends with -- and he was friendly with all the judges in Aruba. He worked out of the same office as they did and did the same work


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Scandi on November 29, 2007, 02:37:09 PM
Revised:

She's dead before Deepak scours his car, that just makes sense. Neighbor said 1:30.
Someone with access to a boat has been contacted and a plan devised to get a crab trap and dump her in the ocean. The guys have agreed to meet the contact at the beach to get a crab trap so her body wouldn't wash ashore.
They're hiding and waiting at 2:30. A crab trap wouldn't fit in Deepak's car, would it? The contact will haul it.
Whoever they are waiting for is met and they go to the beach to get a crab trap. Puts Deepak at the beach @ 3:00.
By 4:00, Joran's home.

Very interesting Crazybabyborg, 

I just wonder if they really took her out into the ocean that night.  I remember Dompig on American TV saying a boat was known to have gone out the following night after she went missing, from the input {which is not far from the spot where Dave found the wooden cross by the beach}.

The Holloways came to town 2 days after she went missing and arrived around 3 - 4am as I remember.  If Joran and Deepak took off around say midnight and with the boat skipper friend loaded the cage {which had been stolen the night before along with a knife and ROPE} with Natalee inside and took her out, they would be back in an hour or so I would think if they did go 3 miles out which is out of the bay and into the ocean.

Remember Beth commented that Deepak and Joran didn't look dressed to be out in a bar?  That fits for me, as when they got back from dropping her, they went to the casino which is where Papa Sloot got ahold of Joran to get home as the Holloways were there.

Just thinking, but things do seem to fit using this scenario together with yours.  xox

another thought... they did not necessarily have to make final disposal that night. from leaving c&c's, they had 24 hours and another dark night to work with (the next night, just prior to group's arrival) temporary burial could very well have been used until next evening.  that night could have been used for alibis and incriminating evidence gathering (into bag for raquet club drop-off). IIRC, boat ride with koen took place the next evening - is this correct?
asking someone, not directly involved, would take more than a 3am call. may take a sit down meeting to convince a good friend to get involved with such a crime.

contradictory to my previous paragraph - why was paulus' atm card used in the middle of the night if i am supposing final burial took place the next night.

i, too, can spin my head in circles with theories - some contradictory of the previous.

How Funny Buckshot!  It is tricky to put everything together for one thing if you use links because of the changing story that was told, for one thing, and we didn't learn quite enough anyway!  Posters even poo-pooed the gardeners story, but I am thinking Jossy was right and he was truthful.

Did the meeting of the 3 with Paulus take place the afternoon of the day she went missing?  I thinks so, and that could be when the plan was effected by Paulus with the boys.  I am thinking that as someone here just said, Deepak and Joran went back to the beach to temporarily bury her by the Fisherman's Huts after calling Paulus to let him know what had happened.  They knew Steve Croes could be hired to take her out to sea, and possibly in anticipation of that, Paulus went to the ATM machine that early am to get cash to pay him.  Steve was reported to have broken into the Huts and stole the things that were missing that early morning - a police report I believe, or was reported by them.  And I think Steve was the one they were waiting for to meet at the racquet club, who did put the stolen things in the bushes around that pond realizing he needed to have more time to get the boat ready and everything prepared to make the trip out into the ocean.  I think something stopped them from taking her out that night, plus there was no boat that went out that night acc to Dompig as it was the following night,

I think Croes was the one who helped in disposal, as having stole the fishing cage and accoutrements, he then made a phone call to the Sloot house around 6:30am that same morning from the south side of the island, supposedly from Max's home.  I can not find that in a link for the life of me, but do remember reading it.  And remember Steve was away from his ship that night from what we learned.



has it ever officially been confirmed that croes was the one who broke into FH and stole trap and knife? or deductive logic? just curious...

also, it is hard to think those involved would be stupid enough to use beach at FH to temporarily bury NH. seems to "out in the open" for an unknowing tourist to stumble upon.

To the best of my knowledge Buckshot I did read it in a link.  I'm out the door foe work, but when I get back I'll try to find that. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 02:38:32 PM
Wiz - alot of that stuff posted at BHS comes directly from Refugees and has little fact behind it. 

I don't think much of the BHS site, they might be about 1/2 step above Refugees.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: msmarple on November 29, 2007, 02:40:37 PM
refresh my memory, what did his research find?

That Joran is guilty - that the beach story was BS - that Joran took Natalee to his house.

The only contravercial part of his show is when he showed a copy of a PV where a witness (my guess is one of Renfro's pals) had made a statement about seeing Natalee do drugs.

Someone else probably will pick up on this, but he also showed the photo Joran had had made up, of himself with Natalee at a party, at a home, in MB.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 02:40:56 PM
Just posted on the front page of SM:

renee wrote:

Lawyer: Dutch suspect in Holloway case frustrated over latest arrest
Print article
Refer to a friend
© AP
2007-11-29 19:59:21 -

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) - A lawyer for a Dutch suspect in the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway said Thursday his client is frustrated about his return to jail, where he has complained about a lack of reading material and family visitation rights.
Attorney Ariean de Bie spoke with reporters after a closed-door court session
on a motion seeking access to television and magazines for Joran van der Sloot, 20, who was re-arrested along with two other young men Nov. 21 on suspicion of involvement in Holloway’s death.
«Joran is not very happy about it,» de Bie said.
Authorities say new evidence warrants the detention of van der Sloot and the other suspects, Surinamese brothers Satish and Deepak Kalpoe, who were the last people known to see Holloway alive before she vanished on May 30, 2005.
But defense attorneys say they believe the three will be released soon. The lawyers say the new evidence shared with them by prosecutors is based mainly on misunderstandings of language in the suspects’ conversations.
«It is absolutely nothing,» de Bie said.
The private court session also addressed a motion from lawyers for the Kalpoe brothers _ Deepak is 24, Satish, 21 _ to have them represented by the same attorney, David Kock. Rulings on both motions are not expected before Friday.

The brothers are being held in separate jails, and Aruba’s chief prosecutor Hans Mos has said prosecutors believe they should be represented by separate attorneys to prevent a conflict of interest.
The 18-year-old from Mountain Brook, Alabama, was last seen leaving a bar with the three men hours before she was scheduled to fly home with high school classmates celebrating their graduation. Despite extensive searches, no trace has been found of Holloway.
All three suspects have denied involvement in Holloway’s disappearance and were previously released for lack of evidence.
A hearing is scheduled Friday on whether there is enough evidence to detain the Kalpoe brothers for another eight days while authorities pursue the investigation. A judge gave initial approval Monday for the detention of van der Sloot, who was arrested in the Netherlands and returned to Aruba last Friday.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 02:41:53 PM
Posted by Lazlo at RU:

Lazlo Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:10 pm   
Joe confirmes on Greta: The houses were bugged.

Joe on Greta last night, about the new evidence: they put bugs in the houses of the suspects at different times.

Greta-JoeT clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHmDqS0dOkc

There seems to be thousands of pages from the tapped phones and bugs. 


I speculate maybe ... just maybe ... a judge ... one of Paulus' friends and/or associates ... will rule that the "new" evidence is not admissible ... the wiretapping is illegal under Dutch law.

CASE CLOSED!!

Janet.

++++++++++++++

Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
October 4, 2005


GRACE: … Jossy, regarding the connection, what I perceived to be a close connection between the judge, Paulus Van Der Sloot and the retired chief of police who initially handled Natalee`s case, Van Der Stratten, were they friends?

MANSUR: Of course, they were friends. It stands to reason they were friends because Paul Van Der Sloot had many friends within the police department; he had many friends within the Department of Justice. And he had many friends with -- and he was friendly with all the judges in Aruba. He worked out of the same office as they did and did the same work

nawwww... the cover up is over

thank you Mister MOS  :cool: :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 02:43:31 PM
Posted by Lazlo at RU:

Lazlo Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:25 pm
   
Joran also not allowed former lawyer?

It has been mentioned before that Kalpoe brothers were not allowed to be presented by lawyers from the same law office.

But according to the Dutch news, Joran has a new Aruban lawyer also: Ariean de Bie.

Perhaps due to all the precautions Joran is not allowed to be represented at this point by somone working at the same law office as his father, or did DiCarlo step back? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 02:44:47 PM
Wow, I have never seen so much wild and unsubstantiated speculation posted here before!  No way to even begin to refute it.

I don't believe Paulus contacted anybody from the PIMPS for anything as even he is not that stupid and he had adult friends who owed him favors.

That said, I am for sure going to await Hans Mos on this as this is getting farther from anything that I know to be even close to verified.

Will leave the speculations to the rest of you and check back this evening or periodically for ruling on Kalpoes detention.
Not going to spin in circles based on pure rumor, most of which came directly from the AHATA rumor mill. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 02:47:47 PM
Dilma Arends reported that cell records showed that Deepak went back to the beach - on BOR. June/July 05. Never heard anything else about it.

that would certainly open the window for the sloots to "pass the buck" with regard to responsibility and person last with natalee holloway.

one of the kalpoe brothers (probably deepak) will get the most jail time of the three.

Also, the reason Joe brought up "their rooms" were bugged.  He means K2, not the sporter, Heavenforbid, he would deny that Joran has a room or that there are "bugs" in Holland, if that was the case.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 02:48:33 PM
Why on earth would Paulus contact any of those kids when he had mature, willing friends such as Vocking and vdStratten who would have enough sense to keep their traps shut?

My list of those involved has shrunk over the last year as no one has come forward spilling the beans.  Who would want to live under this cloud for Joran?

Paulus never lost control of things and certainly I can't see him involving a gang of juvenile delinquents in something this career ending.

MO


His career was over when Natalee took her last breath.  My mind flips about Paulus' involvement.  Did he assist or participate.  Paulus is a criminal and has a criminal mind just like Joran.  Deepak said to Joran you are just like your father.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 02:54:15 PM
Fox Transcript of JoeT and Jossy on Greta last night:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313765,00.html

Joran van der Sloot's Attorney Goes 'On the Record'
Thursday , November 29, 2007


 This is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," November 28, 2007. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: The managing editor of the El Diario newspaper in Aruba, Jossy Mansur, spoke with us earlier. Jossy gives us his take on the so-called "new evidence." Is it new, or just a new angle on old information?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VAN SUSTEREN: What is your theory on what happened based on any corroborative of evidence?

JOSSY MANSUR, EL DIARIO: The only thing I can say, and I have said this before, is that they only facts in this case that we know (INAUDIBLE), and from that moment on, nobody ever heard anything about her anymore except for what these three suspects have been telling us.

No one else has ever come forward to say anything, that they saw her, or were with her, or whatever related to her after that incident. So that leads me to believe that the three suspects know what happened to her.

VAN SUSTEREN: Unless they left her on the beach and they went home, and she walked that half a mile to her—

MANSUR: No, we have to rule that out.

VAN SUSTEREN: Why? How can you rule it out?

MANSUR: We have to rule it out because, for one, when Joran went with the four police officers to the beach because he told them that he had an idea where Deepak buried the girl, he told them, I think that Deepak walked back to the beach where the girl was sleeping and raped and murdered her.

That is in the transcripts of the police interrogation. How can they have left her there when he is accusing Deepak of this?

VAN SUSTEREN: Unless he and Deepak turned on each other and either made up stories or told the truth. I do not know.

MANSUR: In that sense, you also have to remember what Deepak told Joran in the back of the police car coming from the prison—

VAN SUSTEREN: Which was?

MANSUR: He told him if they find the girl, you are looking at 15 years in prison. What would lead him to say that? He didn't know they were taping him.

VAN SUSTEREN: Have you seen the transcript?

MANSUR: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: So there is no doubt Deepak said that in the back of the van?

MANSUR: There is no doubt. (INAUDIBLE)

VAN SUSTEREN: Has Joran's shoes ever been found? I know there is a discussion that he had a missing shoe. What's the story on that.

MANSUR: No, we haven't heard anything more about the shoes, that they were found or not found. I do not think they were found.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is that insignificant fact in this investigation?

MANSUR: It may be significant in the sense that you would have to look very closely at to how he got home that night. He could not have walked if he left his shoes. So somebody picked him up. Who picked him up?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAN SUSTEREN: Joining us live in Connecticut is Joe Tacopina, lawyer for Joran Van Der Sloot. Nice to see you, Joe.

JOE TACOPINA, JORAN VAN DER SLOOT'S ATTORNEY: Hi, Greta. But, that gets my blood boiling, and I didn't get to say a word yet.

VAN SUSTEREN: Why is your blood boiling?

TACOPINA: Hearing him, someone that has been implicated in fabricating evidence in this case deciding what is credible and not credible evidence makes me laugh a little bit.

But, moreover, Greta, the two things he said are so inaccurate. First of all, that initial statement that was rumored to be out there and that actually made its way into one police report—

VAN SUSTEREN: Which statement?

TACOPINA: The statement that he is saying that Joran had any knowledge about Deepak or Satish Kalpoe doing anything to her. Absolutely not true. The cops have moved off that. They've redacted that. That is absolutely inaccurate, and that has never been said by Joran. If that were said, we wouldn't have had him released.

Number two, and most importantly, he starts citing these tapes that were in the back of the police car, and we talked about this last night for a nano second, but these are those tapes they set the boys up after three months incarceration, basically told them, the other guy pointed the finger at you—which wasn't true.

And they throw them all into a police car and recorded their conversations in hopes that they would get some bombshell evidence of a crime. What they got was clear evidence of Joran Van Der Sloot's innocence on that tape, Greta.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you have the same sense that shows innocence of Deepak and Satish on that tape that you say shows Joran's innocence on the tape.

TACOPINA: In all fairness, my focus was on Joran's statements in the context of some of the Kalpoe's statements.

I do not see anything on the tape that shows that they had anything knowledge of what happened either, quite frankly. But Joran's statements are clearly statement of lack of knowledge.

At two points he leaves open the possibility that Natalee is still alive. He repeatedly said that, and they do not know they are being recorded.

VAN SUSTEREN: You have answered Jossy. Let me ask you about the new and incriminating evidence, that is the statement of the prosecutor. And Joran's lawyer has gotten 15 pages—a mysterious 15 pages. Do you have any idea what is in them?

TACOPINA: Yes, I do.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there anything new?

TACOPINA: Not for my eyes.

VAN SUSTEREN: Are there new wiretaps?

TACOPINA: There are new recordings.

VAN SUSTEREN: What do you mean by new recordings?

TACOPINA: They placed bugs in the homes of the suspects at different times. This is what I hate to do to you, but I cannot get into the specifics. What I will say is this—there are no wiretap conversations that postdate 2005. There is no evidence against Joran, and no incriminating evidence.


VAN SUSTEREN: Joe, are there new recordings of any of the three since April 2007?

TACOPINA: Again, I am going to take a pass on that, because the rules right now that are in place—I do not want to violate them. I want cooperation, and I want to be able to share our information with the authorities.

VAN SUSTEREN: Then answer it this way—do you at least know that answer?

TACOPINA: Yes.


VAN SUSTEREN: I am not going to ask you the incriminating question because you are a defense lawyer, and I know your answer. How is your client doing in jail?

TACOPINA: He is actually doing quite well, considering the conditions he is held under. He is a mentally tough kid. He is now 19, was 17 at the time. This has advanced him years by way of really giving him a life's lesson.

And, certainly, he has been through this before. We are actually going to court tomorrow for a hearing to reduce the restrictions. He is in a cage with no reading material. He cannot read the Bible, he can't read a book. He can't say hi to his parents, his brother can't visit him—no outside contact.

That serves absolutely no investigatory person. What that is supposed to do is try to break a boy to get him to say something that may not be true. It will not happen, here, but that is the condition he is living under.

VAN SUSTEREN: we have 10 seconds left—do you have plans to go to Aruba or not? And if you do have plans, when are you going?

TACOPINA: I'll be there next week with the whole team.

VAN SUSTEREN: How long will you be there?

TACOPINA: As long as it takes to get what we need to get done, done. How's that?

VAN SUSTEREN: We will do a phone interview when you get there. Make sure you give us your phone number.

TACOPINA: Sure, OK.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, Joe, thank you.

TACOPINA: Bye, Greta.





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Magnolia on November 29, 2007, 02:56:13 PM
A fish trap or a body would easily fit in the Vander Sloot Jeep.
A ripped down shower curtain would be a perfect thing to wrap a
body to keep from leaving traces.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on November 29, 2007, 02:57:25 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:41 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA



Joran and Natalee ended up at his place.  Deepak and Satish left them there and went to clean the car...it was a mess in the back seat...won't elaborate here...don't need to...what happened next is all a mystery, since only the perps know if she was dead already or died there.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: igsigs on November 29, 2007, 02:58:01 PM
Carlo is probably still involved, but cannot be Joran's frontman anymore after the DeVries program. He can't even pretend to think Joran is innocent.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 29, 2007, 03:00:58 PM
Why on earth would Paulus contact any of those kids when he had mature, willing friends such as Vocking and vdStratten who would have enough sense to keep their traps shut?

My list of those involved has shrunk over the last year as no one has come forward spilling the beans.  Who would want to live under this cloud for Joran?

Paulus never lost control of things and certainly I can't see him involving a gang of juvenile delinquents in something this career ending.

MO


His career was over when Natalee took her last breath.  My mind flips about Paulus' involvement.  Did he assist or participate.  Paulus is a criminal and has a criminal mind just like Joran.  Deepak said to Joran you are just like your father.

San ... I speculate that Paulus' van der Sloot was not a participant in the events of that fateful morning until Joran called him from Deepak's parked vehicle ... calling him in a panic ... Natalee was deceased.

I realize that Paulus abetted Joran in illegal underage activities but ... the thought that he was a participant along with his own son in the drugging and sexual assault of Natalee Holloway ... is too much to comprehend.  That would be just plain evil.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 29, 2007, 03:03:37 PM
Fox Transcript of JoeT and Jossy on Greta last night:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313765,00.html

Joran van der Sloot's Attorney Goes 'On the Record'
Thursday , November 29, 2007

<snipped>


Thank you Klaas.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Magnolia on November 29, 2007, 03:06:28 PM
Carlo is probably still involved, but cannot be Joran's frontman anymore after the DeVries program. He can't even pretend to think Joran is innocent.

I think the new lawyer is just a puppet.  Has anybody been able to find any
information on him?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 29, 2007, 03:07:15 PM
A fish trap or a body would easily fit in the Vander Sloot Jeep.
A ripped down shower curtain would be a perfect thing to wrap a
body to keep from leaving traces.


I thought about the jeep too, but as I stated before in an earlier post I would more suspect a more enclosed vehicle...van...Lorenzo's perhaps.

Anna...don't get mad. 90% of what we all have been doing here for the past 2.5 years is speculation. Because we don't know what really happened and how it all went down...we speculate and come up with ideas. Isn't that what we have been doing all along?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: MumInOhio on November 29, 2007, 03:07:49 PM
Klaas line 123 Grande spreadsheet rafael solognier..car search

Sorry gotta run


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 03:07:49 PM
Why on earth would Paulus contact any of those kids when he had mature, willing friends such as Vocking and vdStratten who would have enough sense to keep their traps shut?

My list of those involved has shrunk over the last year as no one has come forward spilling the beans.  Who would want to live under this cloud for Joran?

Paulus never lost control of things and certainly I can't see him involving a gang of juvenile delinquents in something this career ending.

MO


His career was over when Natalee took her last breath.  My mind flips about Paulus' involvement.  Did he assist or participate.  Paulus is a criminal and has a criminal mind just like Joran.  Deepak said to Joran you are just like your father.

San ... I speculate that Paulus' van der Sloot was not a participant in the events of that fateful morning until Joran called him from Deepak's parked vehicle ... calling him in a panic ... Natalee was deceased.

I realize that Paulus abetted Joran in illegal underage activities but ... the thought that he was a participant along with his own son in the drugging and sexual assault of Natalee Holloway ... is too much to comprehend.  That would be just plain evil.

Janet

Yes I know Janet that is just to disgusting to think about.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: kkate on November 29, 2007, 03:13:48 PM
Just posted on the front page of SM:

renee wrote:

Lawyer: Dutch suspect in Holloway case frustrated over latest arrest
Print article
Refer to a friend
© AP
2007-11-29 19:59:21 -

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) - A lawyer for a Dutch suspect in the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway said Thursday his client is frustrated about his return to jail, where he has complained about a lack of reading material and family visitation rights.
Attorney Ariean de Bie spoke with reporters after a closed-door court session
on a motion seeking access to television and magazines for Joran van der Sloot, 20, who was re-arrested along with two other young men Nov. 21 on suspicion of involvement in Holloway’s death.
«Joran is not very happy about it,» de Bie said.
Authorities say new evidence warrants the detention of van der Sloot and the other suspects, Surinamese brothers Satish and Deepak Kalpoe, who were the last people known to see Holloway alive before she vanished on May 30, 2005.
But defense attorneys say they believe the three will be released soon. The lawyers say the new evidence shared with them by prosecutors is based mainly on misunderstandings of language in the suspects’ conversations.
«It is absolutely nothing,» de Bie said.
The private court session also addressed a motion from lawyers for the Kalpoe brothers _ Deepak is 24, Satish, 21 _ to have them represented by the same attorney, David Kock. Rulings on both motions are not expected before Friday.

The brothers are being held in separate jails, and Aruba’s chief prosecutor Hans Mos has said prosecutors believe they should be represented by separate attorneys to prevent a conflict of interest.
The 18-year-old from Mountain Brook, Alabama, was last seen leaving a bar with the three men hours before she was scheduled to fly home with high school classmates celebrating their graduation. Despite extensive searches, no trace has been found of Holloway.
All three suspects have denied involvement in Holloway’s disappearance and were previously released for lack of evidence.
A hearing is scheduled Friday on whether there is enough evidence to detain the Kalpoe brothers for another eight days while authorities pursue the investigation. A judge gave initial approval Monday for the detention of van der Sloot, who was arrested in the Netherlands and returned to Aruba last Friday.



I thought the hearing was today!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 03:15:35 PM
Carlo is probably still involved, but cannot be Joran's frontman anymore after the DeVries program. He can't even pretend to think Joran is innocent.

I think the new lawyer is just a puppet.  Has anybody been able to find any
information on him?

I agree Magnolia.  That like when Deepak's new lawyer said he wasn't allowed to speak to Satish's.  I don't believe that for one minute.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 03:19:18 PM
A fish trap or a body would easily fit in the Vander Sloot Jeep.
A ripped down shower curtain would be a perfect thing to wrap a
body to keep from leaving traces.


I thought about the jeep too, but as I stated before in an earlier post I would more suspect a more enclosed vehicle...van...Lorenzo's perhaps.

Anna...don't get mad. 90% of what we all have been doing here for the past 2.5 years is speculation. Because we don't know what really happened and how it all went down...we speculate and come up with ideas. Isn't that what we have been doing all along?


Why would you think I would get mad, Nut?  I am not one of the ones banging my head against a brick wall of what we do not know.

I know some post things to try to make me mad but it doesn't because I know what I know.   :wink: And more importantly, I know what I don't know. But I seriously can't recall seeing so many wild and totally unsubstantiated statements posted at SM especially all in a clump like this.  It's kind of wild!

Carry on by all means.  I am only really interested in anything new or the ruling for the Kalpoes.  After two years of it, I am certainly not taking offense to anybody's theories at this late date.  Just perfectly content to wait for events to develop as I guess I have long since grown weary of speculating myself.  Doesn't mean I mind others doing so.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 29, 2007, 03:19:24 PM
Wow, I have never seen so much wild and unsubstantiated speculation posted here before!  No way to even begin to refute it.

I don't believe Paulus contacted anybody from the PIMPS for anything as even he is not that stupid and he had adult friends who owed him favors.

That said, I am for sure going to await Hans Mos on this as this is getting farther from anything that I know to be even close to verified.

Will leave the speculations to the rest of you and check back this evening or periodically for ruling on Kalpoes detention.
Not going to spin in circles based on pure rumor, most of which came directly from the AHATA rumor mill. 

Anna ... neither do I.

Neither GVS and Steve Croes were considered one of the "pimps".  I speculate there were specific reasons that GVS and Steve Croes were contacted by Paulus for assistance:

1.  Steve Croess - access to the Fisherman's hut.
2.  GVS - White Pickup - Beach Patrol.

I am not focusing in on these guys without a foundation to from.  I contend that there were reasons which dictated that both of these guys were deemed suspects and ... held in pretrial detention.  Witnesses are only question and released.

I suspect that Straaten and Jacobs realized that time in detention  was required for damage control ... damage control that would distance Paulus and Joran from implication in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.  Witnesses are only questioned and released.

Hey ... just speculating like everybody else.   :)

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 03:20:30 PM
Klaas line 123 Grande spreadsheet rafael solognier..car search

Sorry gotta run

Steve Croes uncles car right?


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/CarSearch1.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 03:23:11 PM
I think Kock on one of the shows mentioned the hearing on whether K2 would be extended another 8 days would be either Thursday OR Friday.  Looks like that hearing will be tomorrow now. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 03:23:53 PM
Has the detention ruling for the Kalpoes been moved until Friday?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 03:25:07 PM
I think Kock on one of the shows mentioned the hearing on whether K2 would be extended another 8 days would be either Thursday OR Friday.  Looks like that hearing will be tomorrow now. 


Thanks, Klaas,

Guess a whole day of work was just more than the judge was up to!

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Port Valerie on November 29, 2007, 03:27:23 PM
I think Kock on one of the shows mentioned the hearing on whether K2 would be extended another 8 days would be either Thursday OR Friday.  Looks like that hearing will be tomorrow now. 

Thanks. I'll stop waiting.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: NYC_lover on November 29, 2007, 03:28:10 PM
Ouders Holloway op weg naar Aruba
ORANJESTAD/NEW YORK -  De ouders van de vermiste Amerikaanse Natalee Holloway, Beth Twitty en Dave Holloway, komen allebei vrijdag aan op Aruba. Dat bevestigen Amerikaanse media die contact hebben met de advocaat van de vader.
  
Dave Holloway heeft aangekondigd weer in zee te gaan zoeken naar zijn dochter. Daarvoor heeft hij de hulp gekregen van een Texaanse organisatie die zich heeft gespecialiseerd in zoekacties naar vermiste personen.

Van de organisatie krijgt Holloway een speciale boot met sonarapparatuur en camera's tot zijn beschikking. Met het vaartuig kan hij tot drie kilometer diep zoeken. Tot nu toe is de zeebodem alleen tot ongeveer honderd meter gescand.

De zoekactie van de vader gaat buiten het Openbaar Ministerie op Aruba om. Justitie meldt wel nieuwsgierig te zijn naar eventuele vondsten die van belang voor het onderzoek in de Holloway-zaak.

Van Beth Twitty wordt als reden voor haar komst gemeld dat zij zich persoonlijk op de hoogte wil laten stellen van de nieuwste ontwikkelingen. Onlangs bracht zij een bliksembezoek aan het eiland om de publicatie van haar boek Loving Natalee in de schijnwerpers te zetten. Ook Dave Holloway heeft een boek geschreven dat een reconstructie van de zaak zou geven.

De afgelopen dagen wordt Joran van der Sloot wegens moord en doodslag op Natalee Holloway, verhoord door Arubaanse en Nederlandse specialisten. Wat bij hem en zijn twee medeverdachten wordt gezegd, blijft binnenskamers. De advocaat van Van der Sloot, die wel bij de verhoren aanwezig is, heeft een bezwaarschrift ingediend tegen de beperkingen die justitie aan hem heeft opgelegd. Daarover wordt later op de dag een beslissing verwacht.

„Joran wordt overigens wel goed behandeld in de gevangenis”, licht zijn raadsman Ariean de Bie toe. „Als hij zich beklaagt, beklaagt hij zich over de beperkingen die zijn ingesteld.” Van der Sloot is sinds zijn aanhouding verstoken van lectuur, bezoek en contact met medegedetineerden.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/2651564/Ouders_Holloway_op_weg_naar_Aruba.html?p=7,2


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 03:31:07 PM
Shep just said that there are new translators and are coming up with different versions of what's been said on tapped calls, and listening devices.

Is this a defense position?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 03:31:53 PM
Why on earth would Paulus contact any of those kids when he had mature, willing friends such as Vocking and vdStratten who would have enough sense to keep their traps shut?

My list of those involved has shrunk over the last year as no one has come forward spilling the beans.  Who would want to live under this cloud for Joran?

Paulus never lost control of things and certainly I can't see him involving a gang of juvenile delinquents in something this career ending.

MO


His career was over when Natalee took her last breath.  My mind flips about Paulus' involvement.  Did he assist or participate.  Paulus is a criminal and has a criminal mind just like Joran.  Deepak said to Joran you are just like your father.

Participated.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Magnolia on November 29, 2007, 03:32:50 PM
I think Kock on one of the shows mentioned the hearing on whether K2 would be extended another 8 days would be either Thursday OR Friday.  Looks like that hearing will be tomorrow now. 


Thanks, Klaas,

Guess a whole day of work was just more than the judge was up to!

.

Reckon he'll spend the night with Paulus and Anita or fly back tomorrow?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 03:32:53 PM
Shep just said that there are new translators and are coming up with different versions of what's been said on tapped calls, and listening devices.

Is this a defense position?

Sounds like a "shep" problem.  Geez, I suggested to Brit that he put Shep on that news time instead of Laurie Dhue, what was I thinking?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on November 29, 2007, 03:33:08 PM
Shep just said that there are new translators and are coming up with different versions of what's been said on tapped calls, and listening devices.

Is this a defense position?

How are these calls being released to the news media?  What happened to hush-hush?  This is what I feared.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 29, 2007, 03:34:02 PM

I think Kock on one of the shows mentioned the hearing on whether K2 would be extended another 8 days would be either Thursday OR Friday.  Looks like that hearing will be tomorrow now. 


Thanks, Klaas,

Guess a whole day of work was just more than the judge was up to!

.

Anna and Klaas

I speculate that your speculations are right on!   :lol:

Luv ya both.

No more speculations from Tamikosmom for the afternoon ... I am off.

Later, Janet
12:30 PM




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 03:34:05 PM
Pretty far from Aruba but large earthquake for the Caribbean area:

Earthquake Details
Magnitude 7.4
Date-Time Thursday, November 29, 2007 at 19:00:19 UTC
Thursday, November 29, 2007 at 03:00:19 PM at epicenter
Time of Earthquake in other Time Zones 
Location 14.951°N, 61.241°W
Depth 143.1 km (88.9 miles)
Region MARTINIQUE REGION, WINDWARD ISLANDS
Distances 23 km (14 miles) NNW (332°) from Le Morne-Rouge, Saint-Pierre, Martinique
23 km (14 miles) NW (306°) from Le Lorrain, La Trinité, Martinique
24 km (15 miles) NNW (344°) from Saint-Pierre, Saint-Pierre, Martinique
42 km (26 miles) SSE (159°) from ROSEAU, Dominica
270 km (168 miles) NW (320°) from BRIDGETOWN, Barbados
 
Location Uncertainty horizontal +/- 4.3 km (2.7 miles); depth +/- 6.6 km (4.1 miles)
Parameters Nst=202, Nph=202, Dmin=268.1 km, Rmss=0.8 sec, Gp= 40°,
M-type=moment magnitude (Mw), Version=7 
Source USGS NEIC (WDCS-D)
 
Event ID us2007kha5

(http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsww/Maps/10/295_15.gif)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/N_America.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 03:34:05 PM
A fish trap or a body would easily fit in the Vander Sloot Jeep.
A ripped down shower curtain would be a perfect thing to wrap a
body to keep from leaving traces.

Brings to mind the bloody bathtub pictures posted by some of Val and Joran's friends.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 03:35:15 PM
Shep just said that there are new translators and are coming up with different versions of what's been said on tapped calls, and listening devices.

Is this a defense position?

How are these calls being released to the news media?  What happened to hush-hush?  This is what I feared.

Lala's, I don't know how much of the content is being released. The existance of the taps and bugs is certainly out there.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 03:38:54 PM
Shep just said that there are new translators and are coming up with different versions of what's been said on tapped calls, and listening devices.

Is this a defense position?

YES


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 03:39:19 PM
the only difference in the translation is

joran says he only hit Natalee 8 times and the K2 brothers say he hit her 12 times


defense SPIN


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on November 29, 2007, 03:40:30 PM
Shep just said that there are new translators and are coming up with different versions of what's been said on tapped calls, and listening devices.

Is this a defense position?

YES

Is this like the Skeeter's tape all over again?  Gosh!  :roll:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 03:44:32 PM
Shep just said that there are new translators and are coming up with different versions of what's been said on tapped calls, and listening devices.

Is this a defense position?

YES

Is this like the Skeeter's tape all over again?  Gosh!  :roll:

I believe that KLPD found, after actually watching the videos of the interrigations, that some of the PV's weren't accurate.  Honest mistake or intentional???  My money says intentional.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 03:45:19 PM
Shep just said that there are new translators and are coming up with different versions of what's been said on tapped calls, and listening devices.

Is this a defense position?

YES

Is this like the Skeeter's tape all over again?  Gosh!  :roll:

I believe that KLPD found, after actually watching the videos of the interrigations, that some of the PV's weren't accurate.  Honest mistake or intentional???  My money says intentional.
:cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 03:49:23 PM
I love it when posters at RU out other RU members as liars:  :wink:


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/RU112907HIvideo.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: NYC_lover on November 29, 2007, 03:52:14 PM
Wrote at RU:

Motions in Aruba are Concluded - Nov 29, 2007

From: Silfies, Tim
To: Van Susteren, Greta; Tarrant, Angela
Sent: Thu Nov 29 11:23:25 2007
Subject: Motions

The Kalpoe motion is over. David Kock and Hans argued their respective sides–no decision until tomorrow

**********************************************

Joran’s motion is over. Hans left without speaking. Joran’s lawyer spoke on his way to the car. Said “they have nothing…..Joran was questioned as recently as last night”. A Dutch reporter told us that in Dutch, the lawyer said that the new evidence is “based mostly on a mistranslation between Dutch and Papiamento”  


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Spock on November 29, 2007, 03:53:34 PM
The New Evidence Is:


We know now, the new evidence includes taped conversations at the suspect homes (electronic bugging). We also know anything gathered since the Summer 2005 release of the suspects is also considered "new" for the purpose of re-detaining the boys. To be specific, we have learned one of the Kalpoe boys was heard admitting that he returned to beach after the 3 am text messages to Joran and that the earlier declarations had significant gaps that were recoved from the original video taped interogations.  

I brought this over from the previous discussion. Much of this was said on Greta the last few nights. Tacopino dropped the "bomb" about one of the brothers returning to the beach. The "gaps" in the transcripts were also mentioned.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 04:01:32 PM
Shep just said that there are new translators and are coming up with different versions of what's been said on tapped calls, and listening devices.

Is this a defense position?

YES

Is this like the Skeeter's tape all over again?  Gosh!  :roll:

You gotta believe the church sister is right there, with hand out, wanting to transcribe.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: igsigs on November 29, 2007, 04:04:08 PM
Klaas - i think K Hemingway is Moonshadow, Anita's *friend*.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 04:04:20 PM
The New Evidence Is:


We know now, the new evidence includes taped conversations at the suspect homes (electronic bugging). We also know anything gathered since the Summer 2005 release of the suspects is also considered "new" for the purpose of re-detaining the boys. To be specific, we have learned one of the Kalpoe boys was heard admitting that he returned to beach after the 3 am text messages to Joran and that the earlier declarations had significant gaps that were recoved from the original video taped interogations.  

I brought this over from the previous discussion. Much of this was said on Greta the last few nights. Tacopino dropped the "bomb" about one of the brothers returning to the beach. The "gaps" in the transcripts were also mentioned.

Taco dropped a lot of hot air.  If he ever dropped any honest information, it would mean he is comatose.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Spock on November 29, 2007, 04:07:18 PM
Greta has edited the Fox transcript.

Tacopino said directly: "the homes were bugged and one of the Kalpoe brothers was taped admitting he had returned later to the beach that night"

I think this edit was made because the attorneys are forbidden by the Judge to discuss the nature of the new evidence.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 04:08:13 PM
Klaas - i think K Hemingway is Moonshadow, Anita's *friend*.

I had forgotten, lol  :lol: Makes sense now!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 29, 2007, 04:10:02 PM
From Debbie @ BFN today

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

The Search for Natalee Holloway
The purpose of this blog is to give an inside look into the latest search for Natalee Holloway, offshore Aruba, Dec-2007. All writings are from myself, a marine geophysicist and sonar analyst on board the search vessel R/V Persistence. All quotes are direct quotes. All information in this site is accurate and un-filtered. This site will be updated daily until the search is terminated. Your comments, opinions, and theories are welcomed. Be a part of the search.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ospainter on November 29, 2007, 04:12:41 PM
Hi Everyone,

Still on old laptop so can't stay..

Here is a what if..or speculation..

Urine writes a book, the k2's want to write a book..We know dk tried to make deal earlier.

So the k2's discuss what they want in the book, together or maybe with a writer in their home..And also put info. on computer..

House is bugged, the converstations are taped/video...

the K2's think they are waiting for 31 Dec..then can put the book out..

During discussions they talk about what really happened that night...

Just a thought,

Hi Lalas   :smt039 :smt006

MOOO

OS


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 04:21:00 PM
Greta has edited the Fox transcript.

Tacopino said directly: "the homes were bugged and one of the Kalpoe brothers was taped admitting he had returned later to the beach that night"

I think this edit was made because the attorneys are forbidden by the Judge to discuss the nature of the new evidence.

Watch between 5:00 and 5:30 minutes into the tape:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHmDqS0dOkc


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 29, 2007, 04:24:49 PM
Greta has edited the Fox transcript.

Tacopino said directly: "the homes were bugged and one of the Kalpoe brothers was taped admitting he had returned later to the beach that night"

I think this edit was made because the attorneys are forbidden by the Judge to discuss the nature of the new evidence.

Has Carpe posted an YouTube video of this interview?

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on November 29, 2007, 04:27:14 PM
Hi Everyone,

Still on old laptop so can't stay..

Here is a what if..or speculation..

Urine writes a book, the k2's want to write a book..We know dk tried to make deal earlier.

So the k2's discuss what they want in the book, together or maybe with a writer in their home..And also put info. on computer..

House is bugged, the converstations are taped/video...

the K2's think they are waiting for 31 Dec..then can put the book out..

During discussions they talk about what really happened that night...

Just a thought,

Hi Lalas   :smt039 :smt006

MOOO

OS


Yes, but they are being shoved under that bus faster than Taco can grease his hair...they are going to pay for this crime and Joran goes free.

Hi OS!! 

MOOO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 29, 2007, 04:27:27 PM
Klaas - i think K Hemingway is Moonshadow, Anita's *friend*.

I had forgotten, lol  :lol: Makes sense now!

I do not know if this site gives any real name, but this (I believe from snooping around, lol) is Moonshadows internet candle site.
http://www.moonshadowsandrainforests.com/aboutus.htm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 04:28:03 PM
Hi Everyone,

Still on old laptop so can't stay..

Here is a what if..or speculation..

Urine writes a book, the k2's want to write a book..We know dk tried to make deal earlier.

So the k2's discuss what they want in the book, together or maybe with a writer in their home..And also put info. on computer..

House is bugged, the converstations are taped/video...

the K2's think they are waiting for 31 Dec..then can put the book out..

During discussions they talk about what really happened that night...

Just a thought,

Hi Lalas   :smt039 :smt006

MOOO

OS

You think they would be honest with an author?  Hmmm, maybe they discussed what they were going to tell the author while he/she was out of sight, or they discussed at some length what they MUST leave out of the Dr. Phil requests.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Spock on November 29, 2007, 04:28:22 PM
Greta has edited the Fox transcript.

Tacopino said directly: "the homes were bugged and one of the Kalpoe brothers was taped admitting he had returned later to the beach that night"

I think this edit was made because the attorneys are forbidden by the Judge to discuss the nature of the new evidence.

Watch between 5:00 and 5:30 minutes into the tape:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHmDqS0dOkc

They edited the tape and the transcript...was anyone else watching last night?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 04:29:29 PM
Greta has edited the Fox transcript.

Tacopino said directly: "the homes were bugged and one of the Kalpoe brothers was taped admitting he had returned later to the beach that night"

I think this edit was made because the attorneys are forbidden by the Judge to discuss the nature of the new evidence.

Watch between 5:00 and 5:30 minutes into the tape:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHmDqS0dOkc

They edited the tape and the transcript...was anyone else watching last night?

Or maybe they edited because they know Joe is a liar.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 04:31:51 PM
JOE got BAGGED


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 04:33:10 PM
at 6:14  joe gives it all away

look at his face... :cool:

there are RECORDINGS of his "client" 

hehehehheheeheheeheheheheehehh


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 04:34:17 PM
joe will try and get them all REDACTED


maybe JOE can invite the killer to his house in about 15 years  :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 04:35:14 PM
Spock, we all heard it, for the most part, but few of us believe his lying lips.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 04:40:42 PM
Fox just had a boycott watchdog or something like that on, who said that Aruba had lied about the impact of this case and that the economy there had been hit by 6-8% after this case broke, which was a recession for the island.

So far, I'm with him. But he was trying to make a point that these recent arrests were probably timed to occur after the tourists season so as to avoid a further hit? I think a far better point would be that Aruba decided to solve the case to restore the economy.

The guy wasn't exactly impressive.

It was the Cavuto Report, if you get a chance to watch it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 04:40:59 PM
joe will try and get them all REDACTED


maybe JOE can invite the killer to his house in about 15 years  :cool:

Who gave Joe T fifteen pages of anything and why????  Is he the attorney of record for Joran now?

Yes, blame anybody except Joran seems to be the order of the day.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: wreck on November 29, 2007, 04:41:00 PM
Klaas - i think K Hemingway is Moonshadow, Anita's *friend*.

I had forgotten, lol  :lol: Makes sense now!
Moonshadow is a Julia Renfro desciple -- not really a friend of Anita's (unless Julia hooked her uprecently).


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 29, 2007, 04:41:43 PM
 :roll: Joe T. doesn't even know how old Joran is  :roll:
He says..."Joran was 17 at the time and he is 19 now"  :roll:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: snoopy on November 29, 2007, 04:42:09 PM
From Debbie @ BFN today

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

The Search for Natalee Holloway
The purpose of this blog is to give an inside look into the latest search for Natalee Holloway, offshore Aruba, Dec-2007. All writings are from myself, a marine geophysicist and sonar analyst on board the search vessel R/V Persistence. All quotes are direct quotes. All information in this site is accurate and un-filtered. This site will be updated daily until the search is terminated. Your comments, opinions, and theories are welcomed. Be a part of the search.


Hi Everybody.

Thank you for that link Nut44X4  That is an amazing site.  It made my eyes tear up reading it.  Those folks are on a mission to bring Natalee home.  God Bless them all.  My prayers are with them for their safety, and for a successful mission.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 04:43:20 PM
joe calls joran a "BOY"

joran has bigger breasts than some women i know


ooooooopppppps

did i really just say that ?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 04:44:16 PM
Fox just had a boycott watchdog or something like that on, who said that Aruba had lied about the impact of this case and that the economy there had been hit by 6-8% after this case broke, which was a recession for the island.

So far, I'm with him. But he was trying to make a point that these recent arrests were probably timed to occur after the tourists season so as to avoid a further hit? I think a far better point would be that Aruba decided to solve the case to restore the economy.

The guy wasn't exactly impressive.

It was the Cavuto Report, if you get a chance to watch it.

I would think tourist season is just now starting, winter here, warm there, right?

I saw that guy and not sure what he was trying to say.  More mumbo jumbo.  Lots of that flying fast and thick right now.

So it is official we have to wait until tomorrow to know the ruling on Kalpoe detention.  Bummer.  And anybody but Joran is the order of the day.

Kalpoes better watch their backs very carefully.

.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 29, 2007, 04:45:08 PM
Posted by spock - pg 48 (#696)

The New Evidence Is:

We know now, the new evidence includes taped conversations at the suspect homes (electronic bugging). We also know anything gathered since the Summer 2005 release of the suspects is also considered "new" for the purpose of re-detaining the boys. To be specific, we have learned one of the Kalpoe boys was heard admitting that he returned to beach after the 3 am text messages to Joran and that the earlier declarations had significant gaps that were recoved from the original video taped interogations.  

can anyone confirm (or deny) this as being true.
this would be a rather interesting tidbit of info, if true.

Hey...trying to catch up and had a thought!!
Do you think they bugged deepak while he was talking to his lawyers re: the Dr. Phil case? Wonder if they were asking him questions in prep for a deposition and/or in regards to some of the discovery and he spilled some beans in the conversation?!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Spock on November 29, 2007, 04:46:54 PM
Spock, we all heard it, for the most part, but few of us believe his lying lips.

I'm glad you heard it too. This time, I think Tacopino, got angry, lost his cool, and blurted out some of the evidence. He then tried to backtrack, and later had Greta make it all dissapear. I don't like that kind of journalism when you edit a tape and then alter the transcript to cover it up.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 04:48:44 PM
Fox just had a boycott watchdog or something like that on, who said that Aruba had lied about the impact of this case and that the economy there had been hit by 6-8% after this case broke, which was a recession for the island.

So far, I'm with him. But he was trying to make a point that these recent arrests were probably timed to occur after the tourists season so as to avoid a further hit? I think a far better point would be that Aruba decided to solve the case to restore the economy.

The guy wasn't exactly impressive.

It was the Cavuto Report, if you get a chance to watch it.

I would think tourist season is just now starting, winter here, warm there, right?

I saw that guy and not sure what he was trying to say.  More mumbo jumbo.  Lots of that flying fast and thick right now.

So it is official we have to wait until tomorrow to know the ruling on Kalpoe detention.  Bummer.  And anybody but Joran is the order of the day.

Kalpoes better watch their backs very carefully.

.

.

I'm glad you saw him Anna! It's kind of hard to expalin isn't it?

YES, Robots you DID say it and it made me laugh! Careful though, I can always make that cigar too big to allow speech!  :lol:  :wink:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 29, 2007, 04:48:52 PM
From Debbie @ BFN today

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

The Search for Natalee Holloway
The purpose of this blog is to give an inside look into the latest search for Natalee Holloway, offshore Aruba, Dec-2007. All writings are from myself, a marine geophysicist and sonar analyst on board the search vessel R/V Persistence. All quotes are direct quotes. All information in this site is accurate and un-filtered. This site will be updated daily until the search is terminated. Your comments, opinions, and theories are welcomed. Be a part of the search.


Hi Everybody.

Thank you for that link Nut44X4  That is an amazing site.  It made my eyes tear up reading it.  Those folks are on a mission to bring Natalee home.  God Bless them all.  My prayers are with them for their safety, and for a successful mission.

Your all welcome. It is amazing and I look forward to following along with them on this journey. I do so want them to bring Natalee home. May they be safe on their journey.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 04:49:14 PM
Spock, we all heard it, for the most part, but few of us believe his lying lips.

I'm glad you heard it too. This time, I think Tacopino, got angry, lost his cool, and blurted out some of the evidence. He then tried to backtrack, and later had Greta make it all dissapear. I don't like that kind of journalism when you edit a tape and then alter the transcript to cover it up.


Have we seen any other kind???


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 29, 2007, 04:51:05 PM
Quote
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #696 11/27 - 11/29/2007
« Reply #896 on: Today at 01:33:21 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: ldstlou on Today at 12:37:35 PM
Quote from: Tylergal on Today at 12:26:59 PM
Quote from: Anna on Today at 03:08:26 AM
Shame on You, Aruba!

   


Your own Prosecutor says she is dead!     




But, Anna, what do you expect in a country whose young ones wear Che T-shirts and favor a Chavez government over an American government?  They are sliding into dictatorship faster than peanuts on a greased conveyor belt.


oh my gosh, I never saw these. Are they from '05? Poor Beth, can you imagine having to see those? So much for all the support she got from the aruban people. That makes my stomach sick!!



No, LD, those are not recent pictures but from the first year Natalee was missing taken at one of the demonstration against Beth.  There were more than one so I don't know which one but was from sometime during the first year Natalee was missing.

I just like to remind once in a while about all the loving support Beth received lest we forget that not all were either loving or supportive.

Went back looking for the answer to the pics...THANKS ANNA!!!
I am telling you, these made me sick to my stomach. I think you are right, we did need a reminder of all that Beth and Natalee's family went through!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: wreck on November 29, 2007, 04:51:53 PM
Spock, we all heard it, for the most part, but few of us believe his lying lips.

I'm glad you heard it too. This time, I think Tacopino, got angry, lost his cool, and blurted out some of the evidence. He then tried to backtrack, and later had Greta make it all dissapear. I don't like that kind of journalism when you edit a tape and then alter the transcript to cover it up.
If Joe L. said it -- then someone violated the "gag order." It is NOT FOXNEWS' job to cover his tracks for him. In fact, I think it it is downright COLLUSION to edit his (or Joran's attorneys) CRIMINAL act. This should get someone fired!!!! :shock: :sad:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Puzzler on November 29, 2007, 04:53:13 PM
Greta has edited the Fox transcript.

Tacopino said directly: "the homes were bugged and one of the Kalpoe brothers was taped admitting he had returned later to the beach that night"

I think this edit was made because the attorneys are forbidden by the Judge to discuss the nature of the new evidence.

Watch between 5:00 and 5:30 minutes into the tape:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHmDqS0dOkc

They edited the tape and the transcript...was anyone else watching last night?

Or maybe they edited because they know Joe is a liar.

I heard it last night.  I was immediately angry that Joe was saying that and I was thinking HOW can Joe possibly expect to get an audience with Mos if Mos know anything about Joe spilling what he says is evidence information when there's a gag order.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 29, 2007, 04:53:47 PM
From Debbie @ BFN today

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

The Search for Natalee Holloway
The purpose of this blog is to give an inside look into the latest search for Natalee Holloway, offshore Aruba, Dec-2007. All writings are from myself, a marine geophysicist and sonar analyst on board the search vessel R/V Persistence. All quotes are direct quotes. All information in this site is accurate and un-filtered. This site will be updated daily until the search is terminated. Your comments, opinions, and theories are welcomed. Be a part of the search.


Hi Everybody.

Thank you for that link Nut44X4  That is an amazing site.  It made my eyes tear up reading it.  Those folks are on a mission to bring Natalee home.  God Bless them all.  My prayers are with them for their safety, and for a successful mission.

Your all welcome. It is amazing and I look forward to following along with them on this journey. I do so want them to bring Natalee home. May they be safe on their journey.

oh wow!! thanks Nut...that is incredible!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 04:54:02 PM
Spock, we all heard it, for the most part, but few of us believe his lying lips.

I'm glad you heard it too. This time, I think Tacopino, got angry, lost his cool, and blurted out some of the evidence. He then tried to backtrack, and later had Greta make it all dissapear. I don't like that kind of journalism when you edit a tape and then alter the transcript to cover it up.

Spock - it's there on the video.  At about the 5 minute mark.  I'm uploading just that part of it right now, will post in a second.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 04:55:35 PM
The put BUGS in the Kalpoes home.  Greta, JoeT 11/28/07:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/th_GretaJoeTBugs112807.jpg) (http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/?action=view&current=GretaJoeTBugs112807.flv)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 29, 2007, 04:55:45 PM
Fox just had a boycott watchdog or something like that on, who said that Aruba had lied about the impact of this case and that the economy there had been hit by 6-8% after this case broke, which was a recession for the island.

So far, I'm with him. But he was trying to make a point that these recent arrests were probably timed to occur after the tourists season so as to avoid a further hit? I think a far better point would be that Aruba decided to solve the case to restore the economy.

The guy wasn't exactly impressive.

It was the Cavuto Report, if you get a chance to watch it.

I would think tourist season is just now starting, winter here, warm there, right?

I saw that guy and not sure what he was trying to say.  More mumbo jumbo.  Lots of that flying fast and thick right now.

So it is official we have to wait until tomorrow to know the ruling on Kalpoe detention.  Bummer.  And anybody but Joran is the order of the day.

Kalpoes better watch their backs very carefully.

.

.

I'm glad you saw him Anna! It's kind of hard to expalin isn't it?

YES, Robots you DID say it and it made me laugh! Careful though, I can always make that cigar too big to allow speech!  :lol:  :wink:

lol cbb


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Spock on November 29, 2007, 04:57:22 PM
Spock, we all heard it, for the most part, but few of us believe his lying lips.

I'm glad you heard it too. This time, I think Tacopino, got angry, lost his cool, and blurted out some of the evidence. He then tried to backtrack, and later had Greta make it all dissapear. I don't like that kind of journalism when you edit a tape and then alter the transcript to cover it up.
If Joe L. said it -- then someone violated the "gag order." It is NOT FOXNEWS' job to cover his tracks for him. In fact, I think it it is downright COLLUSION to edit his (or Joran's attorneys) CRIMINAL act. This should get someone fired!!!! :shock: :sad:

I agree, the potential to damage the case when evidence is released prematurely can be immense. Suppose one of the suspects learns of this evidence and then "tailors" his declaration to fit what he has learned. This is exactly what Kos is afraid of and why the Judge imposed a "gag order"


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 04:57:38 PM
From Debbie @ BFN today

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

The Search for Natalee Holloway
The purpose of this blog is to give an inside look into the latest search for Natalee Holloway, offshore Aruba, Dec-2007. All writings are from myself, a marine geophysicist and sonar analyst on board the search vessel R/V Persistence. All quotes are direct quotes. All information in this site is accurate and un-filtered. This site will be updated daily until the search is terminated. Your comments, opinions, and theories are welcomed. Be a part of the search.


Hi Everybody.

Thank you for that link Nut44X4  That is an amazing site.  It made my eyes tear up reading it.  Those folks are on a mission to bring Natalee home.  God Bless them all.  My prayers are with them for their safety, and for a successful mission.

Your all welcome. It is amazing and I look forward to following along with them on this journey. I do so want them to bring Natalee home. May they be safe on their journey.

oh wow!! thanks Nut...that is incredible!!!!

I believe Scared Monkeys is also going to have live updates from the ship.  Red will fill us in later.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: sb on November 29, 2007, 04:58:05 PM
BOY, the site was slammed for a few minutes there. I thought maybe we had some news.

The info that Deepak returned to the beach is not new, Joran said that himself. That means that Joran was still there... or had asked Deepak to go back there. To find his shoes? Remember the gardener story? Deepak was NOT safe at home, snug in bed, at 3 AM. We knew that already.

I don't think Joran can spin this to help himself out at all.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 04:58:41 PM
THEY PUT BUGS IN THE KALPOE'S HOME

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/th_GretaJoeTBugs112807.jpg) (http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/?action=view&current=GretaJoeTBugs112807.flv)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 05:00:27 PM
:roll: Joe T. doesn't even know how old Joran is  :roll:
He says..."Joran was 17 at the time and he is 19 now"  :roll:

Hrrrumph, I believe Joran turned 20 a few months ago.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 05:01:05 PM
BOY, the site was slammed for a few minutes there. I thought maybe we had some news.

The info that Deepak returned to the beach is not new, Joran said that himself. That means that Joran was still there... or had asked Deepak to go back there. To find his shoes? Remember the gardener story? Deepak was NOT safe at home, snug in bed, at 3 AM. We knew that already.

I don't think Joran can spin this to help himself out at all.

"Deepak came with some dogs."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 05:02:01 PM
From Debbie @ BFN today

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

The Search for Natalee Holloway
The purpose of this blog is to give an inside look into the latest search for Natalee Holloway, offshore Aruba, Dec-2007. All writings are from myself, a marine geophysicist and sonar analyst on board the search vessel R/V Persistence. All quotes are direct quotes. All information in this site is accurate and un-filtered. This site will be updated daily until the search is terminated. Your comments, opinions, and theories are welcomed. Be a part of the search.


Hi Everybody.

Thank you for that link Nut44X4  That is an amazing site.  It made my eyes tear up reading it.  Those folks are on a mission to bring Natalee home.  God Bless them all.  My prayers are with them for their safety, and for a successful mission.

Your all welcome. It is amazing and I look forward to following along with them on this journey. I do so want them to bring Natalee home. May they be safe on their journey.

oh wow!! thanks Nut...that is incredible!!!!

I believe Scared Monkeys is also going to have live updates from the ship.  Red will fill us in later.
TOO COOOOOOLLLLLL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Spock on November 29, 2007, 05:04:10 PM
Klass, they took it out. It's not in any of the tapes you posted...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 05:05:14 PM
deepak CAME with two dogs


deepak WENT with two dogs


CAME - indicates joran was there


WENT - indicates joran was told deepak went with 2 dogs

joran is screwed  :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 05:06:09 PM
Klass, they took it out. It's not in any of the tapes you posted...

spock is correct

they took out the part that DEEPAK went back to the beech that JOE was spewing about


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 05:07:10 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/world/5339200.html

Nov. 29, 2007, 1:15PM
Holloway case suspect not happy about being jailed again


By MARGARET WEVER
Associated Press

ORANJESTAD, Aruba — A lawyer for a Dutch suspect in the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway said today his client is frustrated about his return to jail, where he has complained about a lack of reading material and family visitation rights.

Attorney Ariean de Bie spoke with reporters after a closed-door court session on a motion seeking access to television and magazines for Joran van der Sloot, 20, who was re-arrested along with two other young men Nov. 21 on suspicion of involvement in Holloway's death.

"Joran is not very happy about it," de Bie said.

Authorities say new evidence warrants the detention of van der Sloot and the other suspects, Surinamese brothers Satish and Deepak Kalpoe, who were the last people known to see Holloway alive before she vanished on May 30, 2005.

But defense attorneys say they believe the three will be released soon. The lawyers say the new evidence shared with them by prosecutors is based mainly on misunderstandings of language in the suspects' conversations.

"It is absolutely nothing," de Bie said.

The private court session also addressed a motion from lawyers for the Kalpoe brothers — Deepak is 24, Satish, 21 — to have them represented by the same attorney, David Kock. Rulings on both motions are not expected before Friday.

The brothers are being held in separate jails, and Aruba's chief prosecutor Hans Mos has said prosecutors believe they should be represented by separate attorneys to prevent a conflict of interest.

The 18-year-old from Mountain Brook, Ala., was last seen leaving a bar with the three men hours before she was scheduled to fly home with high school classmates celebrating their graduation. Despite extensive searches, no trace has been found of Holloway.

All three suspects have denied involvement in Holloway's disappearance and were previously released for lack of evidence.

A hearing is scheduled Friday on whether there is enough evidence to detain the Kalpoe brothers for another eight days while authorities pursue the investigation. A judge gave initial approval Monday for the detention of van der Sloot, who was arrested in the Netherlands and returned to Aruba last Friday.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 05:07:13 PM
Spock, we all heard it, for the most part, but few of us believe his lying lips.

I'm glad you heard it too. This time, I think Tacopino, got angry, lost his cool, and blurted out some of the evidence. He then tried to backtrack, and later had Greta make it all dissapear. I don't like that kind of journalism when you edit a tape and then alter the transcript to cover it up.
If Joe L. said it -- then someone violated the "gag order." It is NOT FOXNEWS' job to cover his tracks for him. In fact, I think it it is downright COLLUSION to edit his (or Joran's attorneys) CRIMINAL act. This should get someone fired!!!! :shock: :sad:

What if Mos had them remove it and refused Joe entry into Aruba as a result? How cool would that be!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: wreck on November 29, 2007, 05:07:53 PM
Am I the only one spittin' mad that FOX would REDACT/DELETE words actually uttered on their own broadcast simply to "protect" their "guest"??????

This is OUTRAGEOUS!! WHO ELSE WOULD THEY EVER OFFER THIS COURTESY????

 :smt093 :2brickwall:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 05:08:21 PM
Spock, we all heard it, for the most part, but few of us believe his lying lips.

I'm glad you heard it too. This time, I think Tacopino, got angry, lost his cool, and blurted out some of the evidence. He then tried to backtrack, and later had Greta make it all dissapear. I don't like that kind of journalism when you edit a tape and then alter the transcript to cover it up.
If Joe L. said it -- then someone violated the "gag order." It is NOT FOXNEWS' job to cover his tracks for him. In fact, I think it it is downright COLLUSION to edit his (or Joran's attorneys) CRIMINAL act. This should get someone fired!!!! :shock: :sad:

What if Mos had them remove it and refused Joe entry into Aruba as a result? How cool would that be!

very coooooooooool

we need a wayback
 machine


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 05:08:48 PM
Klass, they took it out. It's not in any of the tapes you posted...

spock is correct

they took out the part that DEEPAK went back to the beech that JOE was spewing about

Oh, I thought we were talking about the BUGS.  I'm not sure HOW Fox can take out anything from a video that was captured by Carpe on Tivo then uploaded to Youtube. Could it have been a different interview?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 05:09:06 PM
Am I the only one spittin' mad that FOX would REDACT/DELETE words actually uttered on their own broadcast simply to "protect" their "guest"??????

This is OUTRAGEOUS!! WHO ELSE WOULD THEY EVER OFFER THIS COURTESY????

 :smt093 :2brickwall:

i just blistered them

and i might have the LIVE RECORDING

heheheehheeheheheheheheheheheh


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Canary on November 29, 2007, 05:10:05 PM
Dumb question:  did anyone here tape last night's Greta show - the first one not the repeat?

I myself can not remember what Taco said from last night.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 05:10:08 PM
Klass, they took it out. It's not in any of the tapes you posted...

spock is correct

they took out the part that DEEPAK went back to the beech that JOE was spewing about

Oh, I thought we were talking about the BUGS.  I'm not sure HOW Fox can take out anything from a video that was captured by Carpe on Tivo then uploaded to Youtube. Could it have been a different interview?

hmmmmmmmmmm..i dont think they could do that


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 05:10:47 PM
be back later

robots out


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 29, 2007, 05:10:48 PM
From Debbie @ BFN today

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

The Search for Natalee Holloway
The purpose of this blog is to give an inside look into the latest search for Natalee Holloway, offshore Aruba, Dec-2007. All writings are from myself, a marine geophysicist and sonar analyst on board the search vessel R/V Persistence. All quotes are direct quotes. All information in this site is accurate and un-filtered. This site will be updated daily until the search is terminated. Your comments, opinions, and theories are welcomed. Be a part of the search.


Hi Everybody.

Thank you for that link Nut44X4  That is an amazing site.  It made my eyes tear up reading it.  Those folks are on a mission to bring Natalee home.  God Bless them all.  My prayers are with them for their safety, and for a successful mission.

Your all welcome. It is amazing and I look forward to following along with them on this journey. I do so want them to bring Natalee home. May they be safe on their journey.

oh wow!! thanks Nut...that is incredible!!!!

I believe Scared Monkeys is also going to have live updates from the ship.  Red will fill us in later.

Thats terrific news, thanks Klaas!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Scandi on November 29, 2007, 05:12:31 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:41 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA



Joran and Natalee ended up at his place.  Deepak and Satish left them there and went to clean the car...it was a mess in the back seat...won't elaborate here...don't need to...what happened next is all a mystery, since only the perps know if she was dead already or died there.

Hi Lala'sMom,  Do you know if it was rumor or fact that a blouse or clothing of Natalee's was discovered in Lorenzo's basement?  We learned a lot about Lorenzo in the summer of 2005.  Rave parties - that led no where IMO as we had no confirmation they went there.  He had a boat, but I bet lots of locals have boats in Aruba.  If Paulus had a good relationship with Lorenzo, it could be he asked him to help dispose of a body, but there hasn't been smoke about this, so I really wonder if it is hot.

What I would like to know is how difficult would it be to take a small boat out of the bay and go into the ocean, always active with waves.  A wire cage on board with a body inside, how difficult would that be to dump overboard?  Maybe with 2 guys hoisting it and heaving it overboard it wouldn't be difficult, but there certainly would be a normal reaction of the boat to move in the opposite direction on letting go of it.  Letting it roll off the side of the boat to splash down into the water would leave the possibility of scraping the boat,

It could have been a bit tricky for high schoolers to maneuver, and that would mean if they realized this ahead of time, they would need someone to ferry her out that had enough experience to do the task safely and not jeopardize any lives.  Either SC or Lorenzo come to mind!  ;}


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 29, 2007, 05:13:22 PM
Am I the only one spittin' mad that FOX would REDACT/DELETE words actually uttered on their own broadcast simply to "protect" their "guest"??????

This is OUTRAGEOUS!! WHO ELSE WOULD THEY EVER OFFER THIS COURTESY????

 :smt093 :2brickwall:

shall we all hit the Greta wire and complain? I have to see if I had set it to record last night...fell asleep before it was over.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Dayhiker on November 29, 2007, 05:13:50 PM
If Joe L. said it -- then someone violated the "gag order." It is NOT FOXNEWS' job to cover his tracks for him. In fact, I think it it is downright COLLUSION to edit his (or Joran's attorneys) CRIMINAL act. This should get someone fired!!!! :shock: :sad:


You're right Wreck. Joe is not a registered lawyer in Aruba and therefore has no right to access of the court files. They should reprimand Joran's lawyers and make sure Joe does not get this information. It is a clear violation of the law. Joe with his big mouth could release evidence or testimony that could taint the case. He has no right to be trying to shape a case for his US client on mainstream media using privileged court information. I hope Mos will move on this.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Spock on November 29, 2007, 05:14:28 PM
Klass, they took it out. It's not in any of the tapes you posted...

spock is correct

they took out the part that DEEPAK went back to the beech that JOE was spewing about

Oh, I thought we were talking about the BUGS.  I'm not sure HOW Fox can take out anything from a video that was captured by Carpe on Tivo then uploaded to Youtube. Could it have been a different interview?

We know what we heard and it was redacted. Carpe may have captured one of the edited reruns (they run all night).


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: wreck on November 29, 2007, 05:19:42 PM
If Joe L. said it -- then someone violated the "gag order." It is NOT FOXNEWS' job to cover his tracks for him. In fact, I think it it is downright COLLUSION to edit his (or Joran's attorneys) CRIMINAL act. This should get someone fired!!!! :shock: :sad:


You're right Wreck. Joe is not a registered lawyer in Aruba and therefore has no right to access of the court files. They should reprimand Joran's lawyers and make sure Joe does not get this information. It is a clear violation of the law. Joe with his big mouth could release evidence or testimony that could taint the case. He has no right to be trying to shape a case for his US client on mainstream media using privileged court information. I hope Mos will move on this.
I don't think MOS would be upset that this was leaked. This info does not help the Kalpoes or Joran -- it hurts them. I highly doubt Mos asked FOX to delete it. They did this to appease Lack-'o!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on November 29, 2007, 05:20:51 PM
joe calls joran a "BOY"

joran has bigger breasts than some women i know


ooooooopppppps

did i really just say that ?

Do you have any idea how difficult it is not to laugh out loud when you are at work and read this stuff? LOL :roll:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Dayhiker on November 29, 2007, 05:22:23 PM

What if Mos had them remove it and refused Joe entry into Aruba as a result? How cool would that be!


Mos and the judiciary should move against him, Tyler. He is releasing privileged court information (of course whatever he can twist as exculpatory for Joran and we know he lies like he did last night) on US media to try to sway public opinion for his client. They need to gag his ass and ban him from Aruba.

No Wreck, you aren't the only one pissed about this.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Noly on November 29, 2007, 05:23:45 PM
Why would Joe have ANY of the papers/evidence for what's going on right now?

WHY????

or he just lying about that?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Spock on November 29, 2007, 05:24:06 PM
On the longshot that I am wrong, let's check and see, how many other people heard the statement:

"The homes were bugged and one of the Kalpoe brothers admitted he had returned later to the beach that night"

If I am wrong, I apologise.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 05:24:54 PM
joe calls joran a "BOY"

joran has bigger breasts than some women i know


ooooooopppppps

did i really just say that ?


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: wreck on November 29, 2007, 05:26:46 PM
I do think it would be cool if Mos did infact shut out Joe -- but it would be JUST AS WRONG for FOX to redact Joe just because Mos requested it. In journalism -- you play it as it lays!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on November 29, 2007, 05:27:37 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:41 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA



Joran and Natalee ended up at his place.  Deepak and Satish left them there and went to clean the car...it was a mess in the back seat...won't elaborate here...don't need to...what happened next is all a mystery, since only the perps know if she was dead already or died there.

Hi Lala'sMom,  Do you know if it was rumor or fact that a blouse or clothing of Natalee's was discovered in Lorenzo's basement?  We learned a lot about Lorenzo in the summer of 2005.  Rave parties - that led no where IMO as we had no confirmation they went there.  He had a boat, but I bet lots of locals have boats in Aruba.  If Paulus had a good relationship with Lorenzo, it could be he asked him to help dispose of a body, but there hasn't been smoke about this, so I really wonder if it is hot.

What I would like to know is how difficult would it be to take a small boat out of the bay and go into the ocean, always active with waves.  A wire cage on board with a body inside, how difficult would that be to dump overboard?  Maybe with 2 guys hoisting it and heaving it overboard it wouldn't be difficult, but there certainly would be a normal reaction of the boat to move in the opposite direction on letting go of it.  Letting it roll off the side of the boat to splash down into the water would leave the possibility of scraping the boat,

It could have been a bit tricky for high schoolers to maneuver, and that would mean if they realized this ahead of time, they would need someone to ferry her out that had enough experience to do the task safely and not jeopardize any lives.  Either SC or Lorenzo come to mind!  ;}


Clothing story was a rumor.  Never saw any evidence, maybe someone else has some info on that.  Truthfully, the Gottenbos have a boat that could possibly carry a body out to sea.  Yes, Lorenzo has a boat also, but as of yet, nothing to substantiate the claims.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Katysmom on November 29, 2007, 05:27:58 PM
Why would Joe have ANY of the papers/evidence for what's going on right now?

WHY????

or he just lying about that?

Joe T doesn't know Jack Chit


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: snoopy on November 29, 2007, 05:29:27 PM
If Joe L. said it -- then someone violated the "gag order." It is NOT FOXNEWS' job to cover his tracks for him. In fact, I think it it is downright COLLUSION to edit his (or Joran's attorneys) CRIMINAL act. This should get someone fired!!!! :shock: :sad:



You're right Wreck. Joe is not a registered lawyer in Aruba and therefore has no right to access of the court files. They should reprimand Joran's lawyers and make sure Joe does not get this information. It is a clear violation of the law. Joe with his big mouth could release evidence or testimony that could taint the case. He has no right to be trying to shape a case for his US client on mainstream media using privileged court information. I hope Mos will move on this.



This really ticks me off too!!  If he does in fact have privileged court information someone from Aruba sent it to him.  I wonder if this information could be ruled inadmissible in court because it was released?  Maybe this is exactly what Tacky Joe is trying to do. Anybody know?  Where's Paulus?  Of course missy Arlene said that "we don't understand their system" .  Mos needs to track this down!   :smt102   :smt084   :2brickwall:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Silverfox on November 29, 2007, 05:29:52 PM
There is one thing that sorta confuses me about the new discussions over the past few hours.

That is the 1:30 washing the car discussion, and then subsequent time lines.

I thought CnC closed at 1:00 am...and that Nat left with the boys in the car at closing time which would also indicate they would be in "closing time traffic" -- other cars also leaving at same time...You know? Traffic jam kinda thing to get out of parking lots, etc....

If so wouldn't be near impossible to have the 2 bros washing car at 1:30 am back at the Kalpoe home?

Something doesn't add up here.  If so, then Nat's demise, if the car is indeed involved, happened very very quickly, right?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: wreck on November 29, 2007, 05:30:16 PM
Why would Joe have ANY of the papers/evidence for what's going on right now?

WHY????

or he just lying about that?

Joe T doesn't know Jack Chit
No, but he DOES know Paulus Chit and Joran's real attorneys.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: dennisintn on November 29, 2007, 05:34:34 PM
Why would Joe have ANY of the papers/evidence for what's going on right now?

WHY????

or he just lying about that?

Joe T doesn't know Jack Chit
No, but he DOES know Paulus Chit and Joran's real attorneys.


so who is going to see that mos gets a copy of the original tape? 
dennisintn


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 05:34:38 PM
I am not CERTAIN exactly WHEN I heard Joe T say that but did think I heard it at some point in time.

It is very hard to keep straight when he said what.  Today, for example, I could swear he has been on Fox about once an hour proclaiming Joran's innocence.  Does he have nothing else to do?  This is getting ridiculous.

But I can't say for sure when he said it if it was Greta last night or not.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Stom on November 29, 2007, 05:35:26 PM
On the longshot that I am wrong, let's check and see, how many other people heard the statement:

"The homes were bugged and one of the Kalpoe brothers admitted he had returned later to the beach that night"

If I am wrong, I apologise.

That statement was not in last night's Tacopina Interview, and he didn't discuss any new findings at all.

If I were Kock or Figueroa, I'd request an injunction to stop the information flow from Joran's Aruban attorney to Tacopina ...whenever he defends JvdS, he does it in a way that will generate doubts on the other two suspects, to influence public opinion against the brothers.

Has anyone found out if Jose Figueroa (not Figaroa as I thought) is a member of Kick's offices?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 05:37:39 PM
Why would Joe have ANY of the papers/evidence for what's going on right now?

WHY????

or he just lying about that?


werent the Kalpoes trying to argue some point in the Dr Phil case that Aruba law prevents them from turning over documents to the US courts/lawyers.  Yet here we have them turning over documents to Taco?


It's nice when you can just change the laws at your own convenience


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 29, 2007, 05:38:31 PM
On the longshot that I am wrong, let's check and see, how many other people heard the statement:

"The homes were bugged and one of the Kalpoe brothers admitted he had returned later to the beach that night"

If I am wrong, I apologise.

I did not hear that....I watched ir...but do not remember hearing that....if it was said I hope someone captured it


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 29, 2007, 05:38:41 PM
Am I the only one spittin' mad that FOX would REDACT/DELETE words actually uttered on their own broadcast simply to "protect" their "guest"??????

This is OUTRAGEOUS!! WHO ELSE WOULD THEY EVER OFFER THIS COURTESY????

 :smt093 :2brickwall:


maybe they are just covering their own asses from possible lawsuit...I don't  know, but I do think it is wrong. FAIR AND BALANCED??? I think not!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 05:40:16 PM
On the longshot that I am wrong, let's check and see, how many other people heard the statement:

"The homes were bugged and one of the Kalpoe brothers admitted he had returned later to the beach that night"

If I am wrong, I apologise.

That statement was not in last night's Tacopina Interview, and he didn't discuss any new findings at all.

If I were Kock or Figueroa, I'd request an injunction to stop the information flow from Joran's Aruban attorney to Tacopina ...whenever he defends JvdS, he does it in a way that will generate doubts on the other two suspects, to influence public opinion against the brothers.

Has anyone found out if Jose Figueroa (not Figaroa as I thought) is a member of Kick's offices?

Might you mean Kock's offices, STom.  Please don't tell me there is a whole law firm involved that I haven't even heard of yet.

And if we can't keep these lawyers straight, what are the odds the jailers with ALE can?  What's to stop say the Kalpoes from switching attorneys for a session or two to exchange ideas/

I think there needs to be a list of the attorneys of record for each suspect.  Maybe there is somewhere but we don't have it.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Frank on November 29, 2007, 05:43:12 PM
Wasn't it Jossy who made that comment?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 05:45:10 PM
This whole thing is strating to smell allot like 2005 all over again.

I dont like it.  Something is not right.  This is another show, these sonsofbitches!!! :smt091


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Port Valerie on November 29, 2007, 05:45:44 PM
I recall it this way:

Greta asked Taco about the new evidence coming from wiretaps. Taco said there were no wiretaps; the new evidence came from bugs placed in their homes. He did not say which homes. Then Greta asked if the the evidence (from the bugs) came after April of 2007. (I think she was wondering whether the bugs were put in place during the investigation around that time.) That's when Taco went all legalish and said he wasn't allowed to say.

I don't recall any mention of what the bugs revealed, or any mention of Deepak going to the beach. It could have been there.  I just don't recall it.

Taco was the first one on the case, as far as I know, and the only one, to offer up the idea that bugs were used.

Are you all saying that Fox took the bug comment out of their transcripts? That would be nuts.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Stom on November 29, 2007, 05:49:09 PM
On the longshot that I am wrong, let's check and see, how many other people heard the statement:

"The homes were bugged and one of the Kalpoe brothers admitted he had returned later to the beach that night"

If I am wrong, I apologise.

That statement was not in last night's Tacopina Interview, and he didn't discuss any new findings at all.

If I were Kock or Figueroa, I'd request an injunction to stop the information flow from Joran's Aruban attorney to Tacopina ...whenever he defends JvdS, he does it in a way that will generate doubts on the other two suspects, to influence public opinion against the brothers.

Has anyone found out if Jose Figueroa (not Figaroa as I thought) is a member of Kick's offices?

Might you mean Kock's offices, STom.  Please don't tell me there is a whole law firm involved that I haven't even heard of yet.

And if we can't keep these lawyers straight, what are the odds the jailers with ALE can?  What's to stop say the Kalpoes from switching attorneys for a session or two to exchange ideas/

I think there needs to be a list of the attorneys of record for each suspect.  Maybe there is somewhere but we don't have it.

.

I have tried to find Jose Figueroa on the ArubaYP site, but so far no luck.  I just wonder how effective will the communication restrain among lawyers be, if Kock and Figueroa hyappen to work together.  I don't know if they do or not, but want to discard the possibility.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 05:50:02 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 29, 2007, 05:51:02 PM
There is one thing that sorta confuses me about the new discussions over the past few hours.

That is the 1:30 washing the car discussion, and then subsequent time lines.

I thought CnC closed at 1:00 am...and that Nat left with the boys in the car at closing time which would also indicate they would be in "closing time traffic" -- other cars also leaving at same time...You know? Traffic jam kinda thing to get out of parking lots, etc....

If so wouldn't be near impossible to have the 2 bros washing car at 1:30 am back at the Kalpoe home?

Something doesn't add up here.  If so, then Nat's demise, if the car is indeed involved, happened very very quickly, right?

did anyone actually give a time?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 29, 2007, 05:52:29 PM
There is one thing that sorta confuses me about the new discussions over the past few hours.

That is the 1:30 washing the car discussion, and then subsequent time lines.

I thought CnC closed at 1:00 am...and that Nat left with the boys in the car at closing time which would also indicate they would be in "closing time traffic" -- other cars also leaving at same time...You know? Traffic jam kinda thing to get out of parking lots, etc....

If so wouldn't be near impossible to have the 2 bros washing car at 1:30 am back at the Kalpoe home?

Something doesn't add up here.  If so, then Nat's demise, if the car is indeed involved, happened very very quickly, right?


I have thought about the timeline too. I am not sure the neighbor ever gave an exact time...did he/she?? I thuoght it was said to be in the early morning hours. Not sure...lots to keep track of right now.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 29, 2007, 05:52:46 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



roooobots? callling rooobots!!!
We need your enthusiasm here!!!! lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: greeneyedlady on November 29, 2007, 05:55:34 PM
I wish Mos would hurry up and show what evidence he has (if in fact he has any, and I believe he does) and shut Joe Lackopenis the hell up. I'm so sick of seeing him on tv and hearing his crap.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 05:56:25 PM
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

is the Kylie from this website the same Kylie that used to post here?

Thanks to whoever posted this link, great site.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Puzzler on November 29, 2007, 05:56:48 PM
Am I the only one spittin' mad that FOX would REDACT/DELETE words actually uttered on their own broadcast simply to "protect" their "guest"??????

This is OUTRAGEOUS!! WHO ELSE WOULD THEY EVER OFFER THIS COURTESY????

 :smt093 :2brickwall:


You are NOT the only one; I was mad when I heard Joe T last night and even more upset that On the Record deleted it.  Is there something we can do?

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 05:57:02 PM
If Joe L. said it -- then someone violated the "gag order." It is NOT FOXNEWS' job to cover his tracks for him. In fact, I think it it is downright COLLUSION to edit his (or Joran's attorneys) CRIMINAL act. This should get someone fired!!!! :shock: :sad:



You're right Wreck. Joe is not a registered lawyer in Aruba and therefore has no right to access of the court files. They should reprimand Joran's lawyers and make sure Joe does not get this information. It is a clear violation of the law. Joe with his big mouth could release evidence or testimony that could taint the case. He has no right to be trying to shape a case for his US client on mainstream media using privileged court information. I hope Mos will move on this.



This really ticks me off too!!  If he does in fact have privileged court information someone from Aruba sent it to him.  I wonder if this information could be ruled inadmissible in court because it was released?  Maybe this is exactly what Tacky Joe is trying to do. Anybody know?  Where's Paulus?  Of course missy Arlene said that "we don't understand their system" .  Mos needs to track this down!   :smt102   :smt084   :2brickwall:

Could be aiming for a mistrial? ! ?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 05:58:18 PM
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

is the Kylie from this website the same Kylie that used to post here?

Thanks to whoever posted this link, great site.

ok I need glasses.  its not Kylie


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 29, 2007, 05:58:50 PM
Does this help with the lawyers? Does this mean Kocks firm is still representing joran?

luvslalom Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:36 pm   

A blast from the past: June 2005

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1607.280


A translation by Arubagirl:

KLACHTEN ADVOCATEN

Advocaten klagen ondertussen dat zij niet alle stukken krijgen. Rudy Oomen, advocaat van Deepak Kalpoe: “Men doet er alles aan om mij het werken zo moeilijk mogelijk te maken. Ik moet steeds druk uitoefenen en dreigen met een procedure om stukken te krijgen.” Ook advocaat Anthony Carlo, die samen met Ariean de Bie en Richie Kock de 17-jarige Joran van der Sloot verdedigt, bevestigt dit beeld. Het advocatenteam heeft een verzoek ingediend om bij de verhoren van Van der Sloot aanwezig te mogen zijn. Carlo: “Volgens het Wetboek van Strafvordering mag de verdediging bij de verhoren aanwezig zijn nadat de verdachte door de rechter-commissaris is gehoord.” De rechter-commissaris interpreteert dit artikel echter anders. Het verzoek werd gisteren door de rechter-commissaris afgewezen.

COMPLAINTS BY LAWYERS

In the meantime lawyers are complaining that they are not getting all documents. Rudy Oomen, lawyer of Deepak Kalpoe: Everything is being done to make my work as difficult as possible. I have to constantly put pressure and threaten with court cases to get the documents. Also Anthony Carlo, who defends 17-year-old Joran van der Sloot together with Arieaan de Bie and Richie Kock, confirms this view. The lawyer team has entered a request to be present at the interrogation of van der Sloot. Carlo:" According to the Book of Criminal Law is the defense allowed to be present at the interrogation after the suspect has been interrogated by the Judge of Instructions". The Judge of Instructions, however, interpreted this article differently. The request has been denied yesterday by the Judge of Instructions. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 06:00:18 PM
I recall it this way:

Greta asked Taco about the new evidence coming from wiretaps. Taco said there were no wiretaps; the new evidence came from bugs placed in their homes. He did not say which homes. Then Greta asked if the the evidence (from the bugs) came after April of 2007. (I think she was wondering whether the bugs were put in place during the investigation around that time.) That's when Taco went all legalish and said he wasn't allowed to say.

I don't recall any mention of what the bugs revealed, or any mention of Deepak going to the beach. It could have been there.  I just don't recall it.

Taco was the first one on the case, as far as I know, and the only one, to offer up the idea that bugs were used.

Are you all saying that Fox took the bug comment out of their transcripts? That would be nuts.



I do believe you are right, PV.  I do think I remember Jossy said that about the beach and Taco said "their houses," implying there was incriminating evidence against K2 and not against that guy with the Kleinfelter's syndrome.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Puzzler on November 29, 2007, 06:04:27 PM
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:41 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA


If Paulus is Lorenzo's father, would Paulus trust his son before SC (to dispose of a body)?? 


Joran and Natalee ended up at his place.  Deepak and Satish left them there and went to clean the car...it was a mess in the back seat...won't elaborate here...don't need to...what happened next is all a mystery, since only the perps know if she was dead already or died there.

Hi Lala'sMom,  Do you know if it was rumor or fact that a blouse or clothing of Natalee's was discovered in Lorenzo's basement?  We learned a lot about Lorenzo in the summer of 2005.  Rave parties - that led no where IMO as we had no confirmation they went there.  He had a boat, but I bet lots of locals have boats in Aruba.  If Paulus had a good relationship with Lorenzo, it could be he asked him to help dispose of a body, but there hasn't been smoke about this, so I really wonder if it is hot.

What I would like to know is how difficult would it be to take a small boat out of the bay and go into the ocean, always active with waves.  A wire cage on board with a body inside, how difficult would that be to dump overboard?  Maybe with 2 guys hoisting it and heaving it overboard it wouldn't be difficult, but there certainly would be a normal reaction of the boat to move in the opposite direction on letting go of it.  Letting it roll off the side of the boat to splash down into the water would leave the possibility of scraping the boat,

It could have been a bit tricky for high schoolers to maneuver, and that would mean if they realized this ahead of time, they would need someone to ferry her out that had enough experience to do the task safely and not jeopardize any lives.  Either SC or Lorenzo come to mind!  ;}


Clothing story was a rumor.  Never saw any evidence, maybe someone else has some info on that.  Truthfully, the Gottenbos have a boat that could possibly carry a body out to sea.  Yes, Lorenzo has a boat also, but as of yet, nothing to substantiate the claims.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 29, 2007, 06:07:51 PM
Does this help with the lawyers? Does this mean Kocks firm is still representing joran?

luvslalom Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:36 pm   

A blast from the past: June 2005

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1607.280


A translation by Arubagirl:

KLACHTEN ADVOCATEN

Advocaten klagen ondertussen dat zij niet alle stukken krijgen. Rudy Oomen, advocaat van Deepak Kalpoe: “Men doet er alles aan om mij het werken zo moeilijk mogelijk te maken. Ik moet steeds druk uitoefenen en dreigen met een procedure om stukken te krijgen.” Ook advocaat Anthony Carlo, die samen met Ariean de Bie en Richie Kock de 17-jarige Joran van der Sloot verdedigt, bevestigt dit beeld. Het advocatenteam heeft een verzoek ingediend om bij de verhoren van Van der Sloot aanwezig te mogen zijn. Carlo: “Volgens het Wetboek van Strafvordering mag de verdediging bij de verhoren aanwezig zijn nadat de verdachte door de rechter-commissaris is gehoord.” De rechter-commissaris interpreteert dit artikel echter anders. Het verzoek werd gisteren door de rechter-commissaris afgewezen.

COMPLAINTS BY LAWYERS

In the meantime lawyers are complaining that they are not getting all documents. Rudy Oomen, lawyer of Deepak Kalpoe: Everything is being done to make my work as difficult as possible. I have to constantly put pressure and threaten with court cases to get the documents. Also Anthony Carlo, who defends 17-year-old Joran van der Sloot together with Arieaan de Bie and Richie Kock, confirms this view. The lawyer team has entered a request to be present at the interrogation of van der Sloot. Carlo:" According to the Book of Criminal Law is the defense allowed to be present at the interrogation after the suspect has been interrogated by the Judge of Instructions". The Judge of Instructions, however, interpreted this article differently. The request has been denied yesterday by the Judge of Instructions. 


can we get a chart of lawyers together...I am so confused!!! lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 06:09:33 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



I agree.  I have been saying this for a couple of days now.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 06:13:51 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



I agree.  I have been saying this for a couple of days now.

Really, San has been saying this. She is afraid this is another dog-and-pony show.  She has good instincts. 

I believe if he returns tonight without making the decision, he will have more time for the highest bidder on whatever decision he makes on bidding.  :2doh:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Stom on November 29, 2007, 06:14:26 PM
Does this help with the lawyers? Does this mean Kocks firm is still representing joran?

luvslalom Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:36 pm   

A blast from the past: June 2005

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1607.280


A translation by Arubagirl:

KLACHTEN ADVOCATEN

Advocaten klagen ondertussen dat zij niet alle stukken krijgen. Rudy Oomen, advocaat van Deepak Kalpoe: “Men doet er alles aan om mij het werken zo moeilijk mogelijk te maken. Ik moet steeds druk uitoefenen en dreigen met een procedure om stukken te krijgen.” Ook advocaat Anthony Carlo, die samen met Ariean de Bie en Richie Kock de 17-jarige Joran van der Sloot verdedigt, bevestigt dit beeld. Het advocatenteam heeft een verzoek ingediend om bij de verhoren van Van der Sloot aanwezig te mogen zijn. Carlo: “Volgens het Wetboek van Strafvordering mag de verdediging bij de verhoren aanwezig zijn nadat de verdachte door de rechter-commissaris is gehoord.” De rechter-commissaris interpreteert dit artikel echter anders. Het verzoek werd gisteren door de rechter-commissaris afgewezen.

COMPLAINTS BY LAWYERS

In the meantime lawyers are complaining that they are not getting all documents. Rudy Oomen, lawyer of Deepak Kalpoe: Everything is being done to make my work as difficult as possible. I have to constantly put pressure and threaten with court cases to get the documents. Also Anthony Carlo, who defends 17-year-old Joran van der Sloot together with Arieaan de Bie and Richie Kock, confirms this view. The lawyer team has entered a request to be present at the interrogation of van der Sloot. Carlo:" According to the Book of Criminal Law is the defense allowed to be present at the interrogation after the suspect has been interrogated by the Judge of Instructions". The Judge of Instructions, however, interpreted this article differently. The request has been denied yesterday by the Judge of Instructions. 


So in 2005 Arieaan de Bie, Joran's present attorney was a memeber of the Carlo firm...the same place where Paulus works at.  Now the question is if de Bie still works for Antonio Carlo's law offices or not.

Oomen is no longer Deepak's attorney.  His has retained Jose Figueroa, but we don't know if he works for Oomen & Offringa, Kock, Carlo, or someone else.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 06:14:38 PM
MOS has everything under control

let the Defense spin

the judge has to do what he has to do

cross the T's

dot the I's

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

this case is almost over


think back where we were 1 month ago


have a little faith - not in me

but in MOS  :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Puzzler on November 29, 2007, 06:15:16 PM
I recall it this way:

Greta asked Taco about the new evidence coming from wiretaps. Taco said there were no wiretaps; the new evidence came from bugs placed in their homes. He did not say which homes. Then Greta asked if the the evidence (from the bugs) came after April of 2007. (I think she was wondering whether the bugs were put in place during the investigation around that time.) That's when Taco went all legalish and said he wasn't allowed to say.

I don't recall any mention of what the bugs revealed, or any mention of Deepak going to the beach. It could have been there.  I just don't recall it.

Taco was the first one on the case, as far as I know, and the only one, to offer up the idea that bugs were used.

Are you all saying that Fox took the bug comment out of their transcripts? That would be nuts.



I do believe you are right, PV.  I do think I remember Jossy said that about the beach and Taco said "their houses," implying there was incriminating evidence against K2 and not against that guy with the Kleinfelter's syndrome.


Taco said there weren't wiretaps; the were recordings.  Recordings from bugs put in their homes.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 29, 2007, 06:15:46 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



all great WHY!!!  th eonly thing I think i can respond to is....re: the bible...can you imagine what tacoboy would make out of them NOT allowing him a bible..as well as all the GOOD people of aruba :roll:...I think that was a CYA move.....all the other questions just have me scratching my head


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 06:17:05 PM
here is a little hint

when you see JOE T start exploding

the case is in trouble


he has been exploding because the evidence is


EXPLOSIVE  :cool:



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 06:17:10 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



I agree.  I have been saying this for a couple of days now.

why did they even bring Joran back to Aruba to begin with?  They could interrogate him in the Netherlands or wherethehellever he was juast as easily.  I'm not sure why they brought him to Aruba other than for show?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Katysmom on November 29, 2007, 06:17:48 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



I agree.  I have been saying this for a couple of days now.

I'm not so sure.  We were told at the very beginning (when the re-arrests took place) that no information would be released.  I think Mos knows exactly what he needs to do and that his job is to get this to trial, not to appease the media


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 06:18:01 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



I agree.  I have been saying this for a couple of days now.

Really, San has been saying this. She is afraid this is another dog-and-pony show.  She has good instincts. 

I believe if he returns tonight without making the decision, he will have more time for the highest bidder on whatever decision he makes on bidding.  :2doh:

 :thumright:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Katysmom on November 29, 2007, 06:19:46 PM
here is a little hint

when you see JOE T start exploding

the case is in trouble


he has been exploding because the evidence is


EXPLOSIVE  :cool:




I'm with you, robots


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 06:20:29 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



I agree.  I have been saying this for a couple of days now.

why did they even bring Joran back to Aruba to begin with?  They could interrogate him in the Netherlands or wherethehellever he was juast as easily.  I'm not sure why they brought him to Aruba other than for show?

They had to make it look good.  They had to show they had power over the Sloots and Paulus wasn't involved in any way.  So they made him come home for the Holidays.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 06:20:51 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



all great WHY!!!  th eonly thing I think i can respond to is....re: the bible...can you imagine what tacoboy would make out of them NOT allowing him a bible..as well as all the GOOD people of aruba :roll:...I think that was a CYA move.....all the other questions just have me scratching my head

Is he limited to a Bible only, or is he allowed the TV, internet access, his special pillow, conjugal visits, everything like last time, etc...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 06:23:22 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



I agree.  I have been saying this for a couple of days now.

I'm not so sure.  We were told at the very beginning (when the re-arrests took place) that no information would be released.  I think Mos knows exactly what he needs to do and that his job is to get this to trial, not to appease the media

Yet, information is being released - and to TacoMOUTH of all people. WTF is going on???


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: wreck on November 29, 2007, 06:23:37 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



I agree.  I have been saying this for a couple of days now.

why did they even bring Joran back to Aruba to begin with?  They could interrogate him in the Netherlands or wherethehellever he was juast as easily.  I'm not sure why they brought him to Aruba other than for show?
That actually is evidence this is NOT just a sham. If the Dutch were going to merely sweep this under the rug -- they would have left him in Holland for "questioning." They would simply say a Dutch judge would not approve further detainment.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Frank on November 29, 2007, 06:25:15 PM
They brought Joran over here with the intent to make sure he's not going back. Think about it, is Joe Tacopina accomplishing anything for his client?

Nothing, absolutely nothing.

He brings nothing to the table and American public opinion has nothing to do with Hans Mos or his case.

Joe T is wasting time and money, ignore him.

Has there been an Oduber sighting yet? Nothing?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 06:25:26 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



I agree.  I have been saying this for a couple of days now.

why did they even bring Joran back to Aruba to begin with?  They could interrogate him in the Netherlands or wherethehellever he was juast as easily.  I'm not sure why they brought him to Aruba other than for show?

They had to make it look good.  They had to show they had power over the Sloots and Paulus wasn't involved in any way.  So they made him come home for the Holidays.

but they are bringing him home - to his home field!!  Where he has ALL of the judges bought off


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: wreck on November 29, 2007, 06:25:51 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



I agree.  I have been saying this for a couple of days now.

I'm not so sure.  We were told at the very beginning (when the re-arrests took place) that no information would be released.  I think Mos knows exactly what he needs to do and that his job is to get this to trial, not to appease the media

Yet, information is being released - and to TacoMOUTH of all people. WTF is going on???
It isn't Mos releasing the evidence to Taco -- it's JORAN'S ATTORNIES!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 06:27:18 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



I agree.  I have been saying this for a couple of days now.

why did they even bring Joran back to Aruba to begin with?  They could interrogate him in the Netherlands or wherethehellever he was juast as easily.  I'm not sure why they brought him to Aruba other than for show?
That actually is evidence this is NOT just a sham. If the Dutch were going to merely sweep this under the rug -- they would have left him in Holland for "questioning." They would simply say a Dutch judge would not approve further detainment.


 i think its the other way around.  The sloots are in bed with Curacao judges.  I think they won every damn motion that went in front of these guys last time around


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 06:28:42 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



all great WHY!!!  th eonly thing I think i can respond to is....re: the bible...can you imagine what tacoboy would make out of them NOT allowing him a bible..as well as all the GOOD people of aruba :roll:...I think that was a CYA move.....all the other questions just have me scratching my head

Is he limited to a Bible only, or is he allowed the TV, internet access, his special pillow, conjugal visits, everything like last time, etc...

I hope his conjugal visits are with his roommate, whose picture, I am hoping was one of the ones posted here by Rob recently.  I think he could handle a hardy guy like one of them.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 06:29:39 PM
They brought Joran over here with the intent to make sure he's not going back. Think about it, is Joe Tacopina accomplishing anything for his client?

Nothing, absolutely nothing.

He brings nothing to the table and American public opinion has nothing to do with Hans Mos or his case.

Joe T is wasting time and money, ignore him.

Has there been an Oduber sighting yet? Nothing?

Joran won the 1st motion he threw in front of a judge and is probably reading this right now - who knows
Joran is not yet charged
Paulus still walks around a free man


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 29, 2007, 06:29:39 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



all great WHY!!!  th eonly thing I think i can respond to is....re: the bible...can you imagine what tacoboy would make out of them NOT allowing him a bible..as well as all the GOOD people of aruba :roll:...I think that was a CYA move.....all the other questions just have me scratching my head

Is he limited to a Bible only, or is he allowed the TV, internet access, his special pillow, conjugal visits, everything like last time, etc...

the only thing I have heard is the bible.....but who knows for sure


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 06:30:33 PM
Why re-arrest at all? Why not just say the case is cold and closed, and if anything ever pops up, we'll reopen it.

The damage would have been far less


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: wreck on November 29, 2007, 06:30:49 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



I agree.  I have been saying this for a couple of days now.

why did they even bring Joran back to Aruba to begin with?  They could interrogate him in the Netherlands or wherethehellever he was juast as easily.  I'm not sure why they brought him to Aruba other than for show?
That actually is evidence this is NOT just a sham. If the Dutch were going to merely sweep this under the rug -- they would have left him in Holland for "questioning." They would simply say a Dutch judge would not approve further detainment.


 i think its the other way around.  The sloots are in bed with Curacao judges.  I think they won every damn motion that went in front of these guys last time around
The OLD prosecution team was in bed w/ the judges in Curacao. New team -- new justice.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 06:31:01 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



I agree.  I have been saying this for a couple of days now.

I'm not so sure.  We were told at the very beginning (when the re-arrests took place) that no information would be released.  I think Mos knows exactly what he needs to do and that his job is to get this to trial, not to appease the media

Yet, information is being released - and to TacoMOUTH of all people. WTF is going on???
It isn't Mos releasing the evidence to Taco -- it's JORAN'S ATTORNIES!!!!

Just like last time!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 06:31:45 PM
let him have his bible

he will be needing it


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Frank on November 29, 2007, 06:31:52 PM
did I miss something? What has Joran won?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 29, 2007, 06:32:07 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



I agree.  I have been saying this for a couple of days now.

why did they even bring Joran back to Aruba to begin with?  They could interrogate him in the Netherlands or wherethehellever he was juast as easily.  I'm not sure why they brought him to Aruba other than for show?
That actually is evidence this is NOT just a sham. If the Dutch were going to merely sweep this under the rug -- they would have left him in Holland for "questioning." They would simply say a Dutch judge would not approve further detainment.


I don't remember who said it...possibly Vinda....but it was said that the standard was even higher in the Netherlands than in aruba to hold a suspect over.....from that statement I got that whatever was presented to the judge in the Netherlands was incriminating and NEW


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 06:32:23 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



all great WHY!!!  th eonly thing I think i can respond to is....re: the bible...can you imagine what tacoboy would make out of them NOT allowing him a bible..as well as all the GOOD people of aruba :roll:...I think that was a CYA move.....all the other questions just have me scratching my head

Is he limited to a Bible only, or is he allowed the TV, internet access, his special pillow, conjugal visits, everything like last time, etc...

I hope his conjugal visits are with his roommate, whose picture, I am hoping was one of the ones posted here by Rob recently.  I think he could handle a hardy guy like one of them.

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

we can only hope!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on November 29, 2007, 06:32:31 PM
Joran got home at 4:00 and Deepak went back to the beach at 3:00? I don't think this lends itself to Deepak going back to the beach to have sex with Natalee. Sounds to me Deepak went back to join Joran who may have encountered a problem.

Speculation ~

Could Natalee have been left at someone's home?  Not in the car after being dropped off alive?  Coma or dead?

Could someone have gone to the beach to try and get a fish trap?  The gardener saw those waiting on the side of the road?

IIRC, the fishermen info somewhere suggests that they didn't see someone (other fishermen) until about 3:00 a.m. on Monday.  

Could the car have been dirty from carrying a fish trap and other things?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Maria on November 29, 2007, 06:32:55 PM
I can't watch any of the news shows that JoeT is on anymore - I just get too sick and annoyed of him.

As for Joran requesting a bible - Yeah right.  Mr. Innocent.  I remember in Dave's book he tried to give PVDS a bible to read.  Please coorect me if I am wrong.  I hope they all go down and soon.  Not just the 3 but the whole corrupt government.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 29, 2007, 06:33:03 PM
Didn't Dave give Paulus a bible for Joran when he was in jail the last time?  I don't remember exactly if it was books, or the good book.

NYC_Lover posted a link to Joran's myspace (I think it was myspace) and showed last logged on 11/27/07....I think that was yesterday she posted it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Canary on November 29, 2007, 06:33:30 PM
Whatever Mos put in those 12-14 pages to detain Joran for 8 days, it is not ALL he has.  He doesn't have to share this with the defense attorneys until a short time before the trial.  I read a lot today on Dutch law and the right to silence - as far as I can tell the refusal to speak can influence the judge in a negative way...the only caveat is that the prosecution can not base it's whole case on the refusal of the accused to answer questions - there also has to be other substantial evidence.  Who even knows whether Taco even understands this system.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 06:34:50 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



I agree.  I have been saying this for a couple of days now.

why did they even bring Joran back to Aruba to begin with?  They could interrogate him in the Netherlands or wherethehellever he was juast as easily.  I'm not sure why they brought him to Aruba other than for show?

They had to make it look good.  They had to show they had power over the Sloots and Paulus wasn't involved in any way.  So they made him come home for the Holidays.

but they are bringing him home - to his home field!!  Where he has ALL of the judges bought off

Exactly.  This is why they have been leaking the so called complaints by Joran.  He is not complaining at all.

Remember when we first heard that they were bringing Joran back.  What was the first words we heard "Joran was angry" they were disturbing him he really didn't want to come back because he was trying to get his life together and so on and so on and so on.

They had to make it look like it is a power move when in fact it's not.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 06:35:59 PM
did I miss something? What has Joran won?

he won his motion to ease up on the restrictions while he is in jail.

We dont know if he won the full motion or only parts of it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 06:36:04 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



I agree.  I have been saying this for a couple of days now.

why did they even bring Joran back to Aruba to begin with?  They could interrogate him in the Netherlands or wherethehellever he was juast as easily.  I'm not sure why they brought him to Aruba other than for show?
That actually is evidence this is NOT just a sham. If the Dutch were going to merely sweep this under the rug -- they would have left him in Holland for "questioning." They would simply say a Dutch judge would not approve further detainment.


I don't remember who said it...possibly Vinda....but it was said that the standard was even higher in the Netherlands than in aruba to hold a suspect over.....from that statement I got that whatever was presented to the judge in the Netherlands was incriminating and NEW

it is EXPLOSIVE

and JOE T...........probably does know it

THIS is the reason he is seen everywhere blabbing and blubbering like a fool on every channel he gets a whack at

put a sock in it JOE

he doesnt really care about joran

he cares cause he will look stupid
when joran is thrown in jail, just like his last "client"


nice work JOE - keep up the good work  :cool: :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 06:36:07 PM
did I miss something? What has Joran won?

A free trip to Aruba.  They have to make their tourism numbers go up some how.  :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: wreck on November 29, 2007, 06:36:14 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



I agree.  I have been saying this for a couple of days now.

I'm not so sure.  We were told at the very beginning (when the re-arrests took place) that no information would be released.  I think Mos knows exactly what he needs to do and that his job is to get this to trial, not to appease the media

Yet, information is being released - and to TacoMOUTH of all people. WTF is going on???
It isn't Mos releasing the evidence to Taco -- it's JORAN'S ATTORNIES!!!!

Just like last time!!!!!!!

????? -- I don't get your point.
Joran's attornies are legally able to access about 14 pages of evidence. Joran's Attornies are under a gag order not to release the content of those 14 pages. Joran's attornies have shared those 14 pages with Tacopena (in violation of the gag order.) Tacopena is then taking the leaked info to the press. Blame Joran's attornies -- Not Mos!

why is that so hard to comprehend?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Port Valerie on November 29, 2007, 06:36:22 PM
I recall it this way:

Greta asked Taco about the new evidence coming from wiretaps. Taco said there were no wiretaps; the new evidence came from bugs placed in their homes. He did not say which homes. Then Greta asked if the the evidence (from the bugs) came after April of 2007. (I think she was wondering whether the bugs were put in place during the investigation around that time.) That's when Taco went all legalish and said he wasn't allowed to say.

I don't recall any mention of what the bugs revealed, or any mention of Deepak going to the beach. It could have been there.  I just don't recall it.

Taco was the first one on the case, as far as I know, and the only one, to offer up the idea that bugs were used.

Are you all saying that Fox took the bug comment out of their transcripts? That would be nuts.



I do believe you are right, PV.  I do think I remember Jossy said that about the beach and Taco said "their houses," implying there was incriminating evidence against K2 and not against that guy with the Kleinfelter's syndrome.

Yes, he said "their houses." I took the plural "houses" to mean BOTH the Kalpoe house (they live together in one house) and Joran, the third suspect's house. Which house would be considered to be Joran's? That would be the place in the NL where he lives. In my opinion, it could also include the VDS house in Aruba -- and therefore the bugs could have captured conversations by Paulus and Anita. That's how I took Joe Taco's revelation.







Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Frank on November 29, 2007, 06:39:21 PM
Do we even know if it was contested?

He's in jail, and as far as I'm concerned the more ANYBODY is on TV talking about the van der sloots, the better.

Any attention, for us, is better than no attention.

I like Mos, he has the decency to speak of justice for Natalee, and I believe he is going to prosecute.

We've come a long way if Joran getting a bible is considered a victory for him.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on November 29, 2007, 06:40:11 PM
I'll continue my speculation...

What if someone got hold of a fish trap?  What if it didn' fit in the trunk and look natural?

What if someone needed to put in the back seat?

Did someone walk home from the 'beach'?  Who?

Who made that phone call with Joran's cell?  Could more than one person have walked home?

Is that why there wasn't any tape showing a lone figure walking home from the beach?  Past the hotels?  Other town business?

Maybe the person walking wasn't Joran?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 06:40:23 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



I agree.  I have been saying this for a couple of days now.

why did they even bring Joran back to Aruba to begin with?  They could interrogate him in the Netherlands or wherethehellever he was juast as easily.  I'm not sure why they brought him to Aruba other than for show?

They had to make it look good.  They had to show they had power over the Sloots and Paulus wasn't involved in any way.  So they made him come home for the Holidays.

but they are bringing him home - to his home field!!  Where he has ALL of the judges bought off

Exactly.  This is why they have been leaking the so called complaints by Joran.  He is not complaining at all.

Remember when we first heard that they were bringing Joran back.  What was the first words we heard "Joran was angry" they were disturbing him he really didn't want to come back because he was trying to get his life together and so on and so on and so on.

They had to make it look like it is a power move when in fact it's not.

oh isee what your saying - makes sense.

He's probably sitting back with Ben King, pounding a few shots and watching porn, planning their next statement to the press about how tough they are being on poor Joran. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 06:41:18 PM
Do we even know if it was contested?

He's in jail, and as far as I'm concerned the more ANYBODY is on TV talking about the van der sloots, the better.

Any attention, for us, is better than no attention.

I like Mos, he has the decency to speak of justice for Natalee, and I believe he is going to prosecute.

We've come a long way if Joran getting a bible is considered a victory for him.
:)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 06:42:33 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



I agree.  I have been saying this for a couple of days now.

I'm not so sure.  We were told at the very beginning (when the re-arrests took place) that no information would be released.  I think Mos knows exactly what he needs to do and that his job is to get this to trial, not to appease the media

Yet, information is being released - and to TacoMOUTH of all people. WTF is going on???
It isn't Mos releasing the evidence to Taco -- it's JORAN'S ATTORNIES!!!!

Just like last time!!!!!!!

????? -- I don't get your point.
Joran's attornies are legally able to access about 14 pages of evidence. Joran's Attornies are under a gag order not to release the content of those 14 pages. Joran's attornies have shared those 14 pages with Tacopena (in violation of the gag order.) Tacopena is then taking the leaked info to the press. Blame Joran's attornies -- Not Mos!

why is that so hard to comprehend?

where did I ever say anything about Mos?

Why is that so hard to comprehend????


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 06:45:15 PM
Why does the judge have to go back to Curacao and send in his ruling tomorrow on some very simple motion about who represents the k2's?

Why couldnt they do the 8 more day thing today like they said they were going to? 

Why isnt anyone charged yet?

Why is Paulus still roaming the streets?

Why did Joran win yet another challenge to the court? (seems like he wins EVERYTHING that goes in front of these judges from Curaco)

Why is Taco spewing evidence all over the news?


I'm telling you, this thing STINKS!!!!



I agree.  I have been saying this for a couple of days now.

why did they even bring Joran back to Aruba to begin with?  They could interrogate him in the Netherlands or wherethehellever he was juast as easily.  I'm not sure why they brought him to Aruba other than for show?

They had to make it look good.  They had to show they had power over the Sloots and Paulus wasn't involved in any way.  So they made him come home for the Holidays.

but they are bringing him home - to his home field!!  Where he has ALL of the judges bought off

Exactly.  This is why they have been leaking the so called complaints by Joran.  He is not complaining at all.

Remember when we first heard that they were bringing Joran back.  What was the first words we heard "Joran was angry" they were disturbing him he really didn't want to come back because he was trying to get his life together and so on and so on and so on.

They had to make it look like it is a power move when in fact it's not.

oh isee what your saying - makes sense.

He's probably sitting back with Ben King, pounding a few shots and watching porn, planning their next statement to the press about how tough they are being on poor Joran. 

Exactly.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 06:45:42 PM
Those of you who think this is just a show, whom do you think is behind the show and  for what purpose?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 29, 2007, 06:46:18 PM
Does this help with the lawyers? Does this mean Kocks firm is still representing joran?

luvslalom Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:36 pm   

A blast from the past: June 2005

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1607.280


A translation by Arubagirl:

KLACHTEN ADVOCATEN

Advocaten klagen ondertussen dat zij niet alle stukken krijgen. Rudy Oomen, advocaat van Deepak Kalpoe: “Men doet er alles aan om mij het werken zo moeilijk mogelijk te maken. Ik moet steeds druk uitoefenen en dreigen met een procedure om stukken te krijgen.” Ook advocaat Anthony Carlo, die samen met Ariean de Bie en Richie Kock de 17-jarige Joran van der Sloot verdedigt, bevestigt dit beeld. Het advocatenteam heeft een verzoek ingediend om bij de verhoren van Van der Sloot aanwezig te mogen zijn. Carlo: “Volgens het Wetboek van Strafvordering mag de verdediging bij de verhoren aanwezig zijn nadat de verdachte door de rechter-commissaris is gehoord.” De rechter-commissaris interpreteert dit artikel echter anders. Het verzoek werd gisteren door de rechter-commissaris afgewezen.

COMPLAINTS BY LAWYERS

In the meantime lawyers are complaining that they are not getting all documents. Rudy Oomen, lawyer of Deepak Kalpoe: Everything is being done to make my work as difficult as possible. I have to constantly put pressure and threaten with court cases to get the documents. Also Anthony Carlo, who defends 17-year-old Joran van der Sloot together with Arieaan de Bie and Richie Kock, confirms this view. The lawyer team has entered a request to be present at the interrogation of van der Sloot. Carlo:" According to the Book of Criminal Law is the defense allowed to be present at the interrogation after the suspect has been interrogated by the Judge of Instructions". The Judge of Instructions, however, interpreted this article differently. The request has been denied yesterday by the Judge of Instructions. 


So in 2005 Arieaan de Bie, Joran's present attorney was a memeber of the Carlo firm...the same place where Paulus works at.  Now the question is if de Bie still works for Antonio Carlo's law offices or not.

Oomen is no longer Deepak's attorney.  His has retained Jose Figueroa, but we don't know if he works for Oomen & Offringa, Kock, Carlo, or someone else.

Hey Stom, looks like you and i alone w/ the lawyers..lol

Here's what I've got

Antonio Carlo has in his firm: Paul van der Sweat :roll:, and Vito Carlo

I don't see what firm Richie Kock and Arieaan de Bie is in???

David Kock and Ronald Wix have their own firm

Joran 2005: had Antonio Carlo, Arieaan de Bie and Richie Kock
2007: ? Arieaan de Bie?

Satish 2005: David Kock
Satish 2007? same?

Deepak 2005: ? Rudy Oomen and then David Kock?
Deepak 2007:? Jose Figeroa????

Please help Monkeys :2doh:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: wreck on November 29, 2007, 06:47:28 PM
Blah:
Quote
where did I ever say anything about Mos?

Why is that so hard to comprehend????

You said that the Prosecution is STILL in bed with the Curacao judges. Mos = Prosecution.

 You claim that it is the same old Aruba. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 06:48:46 PM
Do we even know if it was contested?

He's in jail, and as far as I'm concerned the more ANYBODY is on TV talking about the van der sloots, the better.

Any attention, for us, is better than no attention.

I like Mos, he has the decency to speak of justice for Natalee, and I believe he is going to prosecute.

We've come a long way if Joran getting a bible is considered a victory for him.


I agree with the thign about the press.

I'm trying to like Mos, he seems decent.  I'm leaning towards believing he is trying to nail these bastards.  But, very hard to trust anything out of aruba with out some amount of reservation- i'm sure you agree.

What i am saying is something does not seem right.  I dont like these judges from Curacao.  And things are starting to look a little familiar with they way these judges are handling things.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 29, 2007, 06:49:36 PM
Didn't Dave give Paulus a bible for Joran when he was in jail the last time?  I don't remember exactly if it was books, or the good book.

NYC_Lover posted a link to Joran's myspace (I think it was myspace) and showed last logged on 11/27/07....I think that was yesterday she posted it.

I missed that...do we have a link?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 06:49:39 PM
Mos was fishing months ago

he has 3 on the hook

Mos might be investigating the conversations that were BUGGED as soon as the
suspects knew they were being arrested

after they hauled joran off, they might have been listening to the SLOOOOOOOT HOUSE of HORRORS
and the same for the K2 house

these little things take time  :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 06:52:00 PM
Blah:
Quote
where did I ever say anything about Mos?

Why is that so hard to comprehend????

You said that the Prosecution is STILL in bed with the Curacao judges. Mos = Prosecution.

 You claim that it is the same old Aruba. 

ahh I see where I lost ya...

I meant that the SLOOTS were in bed with the Judges NOT the prosecution!!!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 29, 2007, 06:52:09 PM
Mos was fishing months ago

he has 3 on the hook

Mos might be investigating the conversations that were BUGGED as soon as the
suspects knew they were being arrested

after they hauled joran off, they might have been listening to the SLOOOOOOOT HOUSE of HORRORS
and the same for the K2 house

these little things take time  :cool:

Glad you are back Robots!!!  :smt052
I still think the Prosecution was tapping deepak while he was gabbing with the American lawyers!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: wreck on November 29, 2007, 06:53:04 PM
I hate to be argumenative (we are all on the same side here) -- but I just haven't seen anything remotely shady/questionable from the judges yet. (Except for Joran being allowed a Bible  :wink:) If the Bible has a file in it -- let's talk!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Buckeye on November 29, 2007, 06:53:09 PM
Nut

Thanks for link to ship

Magnolia

Ariean deBie was around early on.  I don't remember him in Carlos law firm.  What I found was that he was licensed in the Netherlands Antilles, had gone to school in the Netherlands and was the special guest, invited to sing at the law school reunion.  :roll:

STom

Have not found anything on Jose Figueroa  but found three Figueroas, two from Colombia and one from Venezuela.  Many of the Aruban law firms lists 13-20 members but not all their names.

Interesting bit on Augusto Figueroa Sierra is that he's licensed in Colombia (where Kock has an office) but got a MA and possible PHD at University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (by Chicago, where Deepak has a lawyer).  :shock: probably is nothing.

All I can say is...that if Paulus did a brief lawyer search, Monday night, he must have known exactly what and who he was looking for....or by gum...he'd still be searching... :-?

San

I think they have access to a second property, also....they disappear too fast, from home.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 06:55:26 PM
Those of you who think this is just a show, whom do you think is behind the show and  for what purpose?

the same corrupt officials who bailed the sloots out in the beginning.  The purpose is to save their own ass, just as before.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Canary on November 29, 2007, 06:55:49 PM
 I THINK they were listening to what was said right after the searches of the JVS house and the K2house  = example:

deepak to satish:  do you think they can tell we weren't where we said we were
 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 29, 2007, 06:56:14 PM
I hate to be argumenative (we are all on the same side here) -- but I just haven't seen anything remotely shady/questionable from the judges yet. (Except for Joran being allowed a Bible  :wink:) If the Bible has a file in it -- let's talk!

ok...is it rumor or did he really get a bible?
What he needs is a priest for an exorcism!!! :smt078


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 29, 2007, 06:56:17 PM
Didn't Dave give Paulus a bible for Joran when he was in jail the last time?  I don't remember exactly if it was books, or the good book.

NYC_Lover posted a link to Joran's myspace (I think it was myspace) and showed last logged on 11/27/07....I think that was yesterday she posted it.

I missed that...do we have a link?

I had to search for NYC_Lover's post... :roll:  :2doh:  Yesterday, it said 11/27/07 and now it says 11/28/07..

http://www.myspace.com/japvs


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 06:57:36 PM
Those of you who think this is just a show, whom do you think is behind the show and  for what purpose?

the same corrupt officials who bailed the sloots out in the beginning.  The purpose is to save their own ass, just as before.

Except this time they have 45 L'il Dutchies watching them.  Surely that will make at least some difference in their actions.  Who knows, maybe not.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 06:59:27 PM
Mos was fishing months ago

he has 3 on the hook

Mos might be investigating the conversations that were BUGGED as soon as the
suspects knew they were being arrested

after they hauled joran off, they might have been listening to the SLOOOOOOOT HOUSE of HORRORS
and the same for the K2 house

these little things take time  :cool:

Glad you are back Robots!!!  :smt052
I still think the Prosecution was tapping deepak while he was gabbing with the American lawyers!!
:wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Stella on November 29, 2007, 06:59:36 PM
Mos was fishing months ago

he has 3 on the hook

Mos might be investigating the conversations that were BUGGED as soon as the
suspects knew they were being arrested

after they hauled joran off, they might have been listening to the SLOOOOOOOT HOUSE of HORRORS
and the same for the K2 house

these little things take time  :cool:

Glad you are back Robots!!!  :smt052
I still think the Prosecution was tapping deepak while he was gabbing with the American lawyers!!

I wouldn't think they'd be able to use anything they got like that - attorney-client privilege and all that. At least they wouldn't be able to use it in the States.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 07:00:35 PM
I hate to be argumenative (we are all on the same side here) -- but I just haven't seen anything remotely shady/questionable from the judges yet. (Except for Joran being allowed a Bible  :wink:) If the Bible has a file in it -- let's talk!

the only thing that hs changed is there is a new sherrif in town - who may or may not be serious about trying to nail these bastards.

He still is fighting the same corrupt officials, same broken screwed up system as the day Natalee went missing.  I'm talking about the people higher on the foodchain than the cops and detectives.  Only his hands are tied compaed to what Karen could have done


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 07:01:48 PM
I hate to be argumenative (we are all on the same side here) -- but I just haven't seen anything remotely shady/questionable from the judges yet. (Except for Joran being allowed a Bible  :wink:) If the Bible has a file in it -- let's talk!

ok...is it rumor or did he really get a bible?
What he needs is a priest for an exorcism!!! :smt078


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 07:01:54 PM
Those of you who think this is just a show, whom do you think is behind the show and  for what purpose?

The man who started the ball rolling by requesting help from the Dutch Rudy Croes.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: snoopy on November 29, 2007, 07:03:19 PM

Don't be disheartened

Don't be discouraged

Justice is coming





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 07:03:22 PM
I hate to be argumenative (we are all on the same side here) -- but I just haven't seen anything remotely shady/questionable from the judges yet. (Except for Joran being allowed a Bible  :wink:) If the Bible has a file in it -- let's talk!

ok...is it rumor or did he really get a bible?
What he needs is a priest for an exorcism!!! :smt078

According to news reports today, Joran was allowed to have a bible in his cell....that is all.  It's said that the judge will rule on the REST of Joran's requests tomorrow (family visits, newspapers, etc).


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 29, 2007, 07:04:29 PM
Didn't Dave give Paulus a bible for Joran when he was in jail the last time?  I don't remember exactly if it was books, or the good book.

NYC_Lover posted a link to Joran's myspace (I think it was myspace) and showed last logged on 11/27/07....I think that was yesterday she posted it.

I missed that...do we have a link?

I had to search for NYC_Lover's post... :roll:  :2doh:  Yesterday, it said 11/27/07 and now it says 11/28/07..

http://www.myspace.com/japvs

thanks 2sons...maybe his family is checking it


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 07:04:42 PM
Those of you who think this is just a show, whom do you think is behind the show and  for what purpose?

the same corrupt officials who bailed the sloots out in the beginning.  The purpose is to save their own ass, just as before.

Except this time they have 45 L'il Dutchies watching them.  Surely that will make at least some difference in their actions.  Who knows, maybe not.

.

the whole world was watching them the 1st time around, we have tons of circumstantial evidence right here on these boards.  Didnt stop these corrupt sumbiches from making the most ridiculous decisions the first time around.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 29, 2007, 07:05:17 PM
I hate to be argumenative (we are all on the same side here) -- but I just haven't seen anything remotely shady/questionable from the judges yet. (Except for Joran being allowed a Bible  :wink:) If the Bible has a file in it -- let's talk!

ok...is it rumor or did he really get a bible?
What he needs is a priest for an exorcism!!! :smt078

According to news reports today, Joran was allowed to have a bible in his cell....that is all.  It's said that the judge will rule on the REST of Joran's requests tomorrow (family visits, newspapers, etc).

ok...now I've heard everything!!!  :roll:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 29, 2007, 07:07:00 PM

Don't be disheartened

Don't be discouraged

Justice is coming





I am praying!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 29, 2007, 07:07:31 PM

Don't be disheartened

Don't be discouraged

Justice is coming





I am praying!!!

and listening to Robots!!! lol


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 07:09:46 PM

Don't be disheartened

Don't be discouraged

Justice is coming





I am praying!!!

and listening to Robots!!! lol


 :lol:
Robots is like that little energizer bunny

 :albino:



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 07:12:30 PM
Those of you who think this is just a show, whom do you think is behind the show and  for what purpose?

the same corrupt officials who bailed the sloots out in the beginning.  The purpose is to save their own ass, just as before.

Except this time they have 45 L'il Dutchies watching them.  Surely that will make at least some difference in their actions.  Who knows, maybe not.

.

the whole world was watching them the 1st time around, we have tons of circumstantial evidence right here on these boards.  Didn't stop these corrupt sumbiches from making the most ridiculous decisions the first time around.

It's different watching from an internet forum and physically being there on the island.

You may be right.  At least we won't have long to wait this time with only about thirty days before Mos says he will either fish or cut bait.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 07:16:15 PM
Those of you who think this is just a show, whom do you think is behind the show and  for what purpose?

the same corrupt officials who bailed the sloots out in the beginning.  The purpose is to save their own ass, just as before.

Except this time they have 45 L'il Dutchies watching them.  Surely that will make at least some difference in their actions.  Who knows, maybe not.

.

the whole world was watching them the 1st time around, we have tons of circumstantial evidence right here on these boards.  Didn't stop these corrupt sumbiches from making the most ridiculous decisions the first time around.

It's different watching from an internet forum and physically being there on the island.

You may be right.  At least we won't have long to wait this time with only about thirty days before Mos says he will either fish or cut bait.

.

who knows, if kock is right, it could all be over tomorrow :shock:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 07:18:18 PM
hell, kock doesnt even have to be right, if a corrupt judge shows up tomorrow, it could all be over tomorrow


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Magnolia on November 29, 2007, 07:18:42 PM
I think Joran getting just a bible is a good sign.
I thought when I saw that list the other day that if the judge
was not corrupt he would give him a bible and nothing more.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 29, 2007, 07:19:28 PM
Didn't Dave give Paulus a bible for Joran when he was in jail the last time?  I don't remember exactly if it was books, or the good book.

NYC_Lover posted a link to Joran's myspace (I think it was myspace) and showed last logged on 11/27/07....I think that was yesterday she posted it.

I missed that...do we have a link?

I had to search for NYC_Lover's post... :roll:  :2doh:  Yesterday, it said 11/27/07 and now it says 11/28/07..

http://www.myspace.com/japvs

thanks 2sons...maybe his family is checking it

I am not sure about family....it could be friend (s) or LE, too, if it's not him. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 07:20:34 PM
Do we even know if it was contested?

He's in jail, and as far as I'm concerned the more ANYBODY is on TV talking about the van der sloots, the better.

Any attention, for us, is better than no attention.

I like Mos, he has the decency to speak of justice for Natalee, and I believe he is going to prosecute.

We've come a long way if Joran getting a bible is considered a victory for him.

Unlike Paris, perhaps he will be prepared for his question from Larry King, "what is your favorite Bible scripture?"  LOL.  That santa laugh had never opened the Bible.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 07:23:03 PM
I think Joran getting just a bible is a good sign.
I thought when I saw that list the other day that if the judge
was not corrupt he would give him a bible and nothing more.


where did you hear he is just getting a bible?
I could swear i just heard differently on FOX, anyone watching FOX???


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 29, 2007, 07:23:47 PM
Do we even know if it was contested?

He's in jail, and as far as I'm concerned the more ANYBODY is on TV talking about the van der sloots, the better.

Any attention, for us, is better than no attention.

I like Mos, he has the decency to speak of justice for Natalee, and I believe he is going to prosecute.

We've come a long way if Joran getting a bible is considered a victory for him.

Unlike Paris, perhaps he will be prepared for his question from Larry King, "what is your favorite Bible scripture?"  LOL.  That santa laugh had never opened the Bible.

 :lol: :lol: I was just thinking along similar lines and was about to post.  I know what my sons were like at that age and picking up a bible was not something on their list AND, in no way did they have the lifestyle Joran had.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 07:26:01 PM
I think Joran getting just a bible is a good sign.
I thought when I saw that list the other day that if the judge
was not corrupt he would give him a bible and nothing more.


where did you hear he is just getting a bible?
I could swear i just heard differently on FOX, anyone watching FOX???

I'm multi tasking and so was only half paying attention but I thought I heard something to the effect that he won his motion for a Bible, newspaper, magazines, visits, etc and has already received his bible...


was anyone paying attention?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 07:26:46 PM
I think Joran getting just a bible is a good sign.
I thought when I saw that list the other day that if the judge
was not corrupt he would give him a bible and nothing more.


where did you hear he is just getting a bible?
I could swear i just heard differently on FOX, anyone watching FOX???

I was watching FOX.  The only thing they verified that he did get was his bible.  It was said the judge would make his final decision on the rest of Joran's requests tomorrow.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 07:28:02 PM
I hate to be argumenative (we are all on the same side here) -- but I just haven't seen anything remotely shady/questionable from the judges yet. (Except for Joran being allowed a Bible  :wink:) If the Bible has a file in it -- let's talk!

I hope he is quietly asking for Vaseline.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Magnolia on November 29, 2007, 07:28:10 PM
I think Joran getting just a bible is a good sign.
I thought when I saw that list the other day that if the judge
was not corrupt he would give him a bible and nothing more.


where did you hear he is just getting a bible?
I could swear i just heard differently on FOX, anyone watching FOX???

I heard it from Klaas and on my local(Bham) TV.
I'll bet you Joran has thrown that bible across the room and kicked it
several times.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Helen Back on November 29, 2007, 07:29:05 PM
Ok, I left for a few hours and what happened?

Phil Keating reporting from Aruba on Shep:

Joran is complaining there's not enough to read in jail.  would like magazines and television and visits from his family.  Joran's attorney:  The new evidence is derived from Misunderstandings in previous translations.   :lol:

Sound like not much news today except Joran got a bible, would like more stuff, and the defense attorneys are spinning like tops.

Blah, blah, blah, blah.......No offense Blah!

Just remember there are very few people that know the details of this case like the monkeys.
Greta and most anchors are misinformed.  Defense attorneys are doing what they do best.  Joe T. is a liar and blowhard.

All same as yesterday.

Mos has got em all twisted up in a bag and they are showing signs of stress.  The stress is compounding from the fact that they don't have a clue what he's really got.  They can't get the usual leaks and cross-chatter, and they are having to play by his rules.  They hate it!

But he's got em!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 07:29:34 PM
Also- posted by Sunmoonstars at RU:

sunmoonstars wrote:
Fox gave a little blurb a little while ago. Not much to it, except that the Kalpoes will know tomorrow if they are released. OH, and Joran got a bible, but not the other things he asked for. He will know tomorrow on those items.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 07:29:47 PM
Nut

Thanks for link to ship

Magnolia

Ariean deBie was around early on.  I don't remember him in Carlos law firm.  What I found was that he was licensed in the Netherlands Antilles, had gone to school in the Netherlands and was the special guest, invited to sing at the law school reunion.  :roll:

STom

Have not found anything on Jose Figueroa  but found three Figueroas, two from Colombia and one from Venezuela.  Many of the Aruban law firms lists 13-20 members but not all their names.

Interesting bit on Augusto Figueroa Sierra is that he's licensed in Colombia (where Kock has an office) but got a MA and possible PHD at University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (by Chicago, where Deepak has a lawyer).  :shock: probably is nothing.

All I can say is...that if Paulus did a brief lawyer search, Monday night, he must have known exactly what and who he was looking for....or by gum...he'd still be searching... :-?

San

I think they have access to a second property, also....they disappear too fast, from home.

Google Netherlands, war on terror, etc


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 07:30:30 PM
when did Greta go back to DC?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 07:32:00 PM
Those of you who think this is just a show, whom do you think is behind the show and  for what purpose?

the same corrupt officials who bailed the sloots out in the beginning.  The purpose is to save their own ass, just as before.

Yes, that's the only thing that worries me, the Curaco judges.  I trust Mos, just not sure he knows how to get rid of judges appointed by the powers that be so that he gets a fair shake from the judges. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 07:33:25 PM
Those of you who think this is just a show, whom do you think is behind the show and  for what purpose?

The man who started the ball rolling by requesting help from the Dutch Rudy Croes.

San wins the door prize.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 07:33:41 PM
I think Joran getting just a bible is a good sign.
I thought when I saw that list the other day that if the judge
was not corrupt he would give him a bible and nothing more.


where did you hear he is just getting a bible?
I could swear i just heard differently on FOX, anyone watching FOX???

I was watching FOX.  The only thing they verified that he did get was his bible.  It was said the judge would make his final decision on the rest of Joran's requests tomorrow.

thanks for clearing that up.  Not sure why the judge would wait until tomorrow but at least there is still hope the judge will do the right thing and DENY this nonesense.  ESPECIALLY the visitation from mommy and daddy!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 07:35:08 PM
Those of you who think this is just a show, whom do you think is behind the show and  for what purpose?

The man who started the ball rolling by requesting help from the Dutch Rudy Croes.

San wins the door prize.


But for what purpose?  Why not just leave it twisting in the wind?  At least for now, the suspects are not of free feet.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 29, 2007, 07:35:24 PM
Those of you who think this is just a show, whom do you think is behind the show and  for what purpose?

The man who started the ball rolling by requesting help from the Dutch Rudy Croes.

San wins the door prize.

So right, Tyler....it's easy to forget these details when getting wrapped up in the current events.   


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 07:35:58 PM
when did Greta go back to DC?

Greta flew from Aruba to Bolingbrook IL yesterday morning(11/28).  On her blog she talked about flying back today to DC. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 29, 2007, 07:37:31 PM
i kept this little bit...I don't remember which interview it was from.....


Reporter: Well, I think if you can explain to people what really happened, and you were really forthcoming, the more forthcoming you are, the more chance there will be for you to get on with your life.

Joran van der Sloot: One day, I will explain exactly what happened, but, right now, I don’t feel ready to do that.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on November 29, 2007, 07:37:33 PM
Local news abc3340 led with Natalee Holloway story tonight...pretty much the same stuff we already know except the interview with Dave Holloway.  Mentioned the boat that left from Louisiana today and the new search that was planned.  Dave said the prosecutor told him a "couple weeks" ago that Natalee was no longer alive. 

Next question that Hammer has been asking for 2 years now...HOW DOES MOS KNOW SHE IS DEAD?

Someone told them...showed them...or they heard it from the wire taps. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 07:39:05 PM
when did Greta go back to DC?

Greta flew from Aruba to Bolingbrook IL yesterday morning(11/28).  On her blog she talked about flying back today to DC. 

good.  Having her sniffing around the island trying to get people to talk was making me nervous.  Who knows what would happen if she were actually able to get someone to spill the beans on her show  :roll:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 29, 2007, 07:40:10 PM
let him have his bible

he will be needing it

LOL Robots!
I have been hoping some of these reporters/news people will ask the big question to some of the people they interview..."Do you think there will be any further arrests??"  WHY has no one asked that question to anyone.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 07:40:33 PM
For every appearance by Joe T, I would like to see one by John Q Kelley or someone else knowledgeable about the case who is NOT in Aruba presenting an Aruban slant on things.

It's not fair to have nonstop Joe T like this, forming a very pro-Joran image in the American media with very little to counter it.  I wonder why Greta and others are doing this and why they are defending Joran's position all day long.

Free junkets for all Fox News personnel plus CNN and MSNBC?  Millions in advertising dollars?  What's the deal why we have to see his putrid face constantly?  You can't get away from this guy, Joe T.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 29, 2007, 07:40:35 PM
i kept this little bit...I don't remember which interview it was from.....


Reporter: Well, I think if you can explain to people what really happened, and you were really forthcoming, the more forthcoming you are, the more chance there will be for you to get on with your life.

Joran van der Sloot: One day, I will explain exactly what happened, but, right now, I don’t feel ready to do that.

Reading this just pisses me off....think it was the Cuomo interview on ABC, but not sure.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 07:40:56 PM
i kept this little bit...I don't remember which interview it was from.....


Reporter: Well, I think if you can explain to people what really happened, and you were really forthcoming, the more forthcoming you are, the more chance there will be for you to get on with your life.

Joran van der Sloot: One day, I will explain exactly what happened, but, right now, I don’t feel ready to do that.

wasnt that from when her first fled to the Netherlands?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 07:41:10 PM
Didn't Dave give Paulus a bible for Joran when he was in jail the last time?  I don't remember exactly if it was books, or the good book.

NYC_Lover posted a link to Joran's myspace (I think it was myspace) and showed last logged on 11/27/07....I think that was yesterday she posted it.

I missed that...do we have a link?

Please forgive if already answered, I'm catching up. Dave gave Paulus a copy of ,"The Purpose Filled Life", a Christian Best Seller. It was in Dave's Book.

(I've read it, and it is WONDERFUL!)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 07:42:11 PM
Local news abc3340 led with Natalee Holloway story tonight...pretty much the same stuff we already know except the interview with Dave Holloway.  Mentioned the boat that left from Louisiana today and the new search that was planned.  Dave said the prosecutor told him a "couple weeks" ago that Natalee was no longer alive. 

Next question that Hammer has been asking for 2 years now...HOW DOES MOS KNOW SHE IS DEAD?

Someone told them...showed them...or they heard it from the wire taps. 

Dave/TES/KLPD/FBI/Prosecutor all working together.  They know Natalee is not alive.  Maybe they do have a pretty good idea where in the ocean she was put?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 07:42:56 PM
Local news abc3340 led with Natalee Holloway story tonight...pretty much the same stuff we already know except the interview with Dave Holloway.  Mentioned the boat that left from Louisiana today and the new search that was planned.  Dave said the prosecutor told him a "couple weeks" ago that Natalee was no longer alive. 

Next question that Hammer has been asking for 2 years now...HOW DOES MOS KNOW SHE IS DEAD?

Someone told them...showed them...or they heard it from the wire taps. 

probably the same way Van Der Stratten knew - "because I have seen the evidence and you havent"


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 29, 2007, 07:42:57 PM
Thanks, CBB...just didn't remember.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: michelete2 on November 29, 2007, 07:43:19 PM
Joran has not let anything stop his love of gambling.
http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/joran_sloot    
One of his nicknames is angryshark 68

Here is a new cute mug shot  http://joranvandersloot.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!9E74C66583487C84!780/
(Dont know how to post pictures)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: mishy on November 29, 2007, 07:44:30 PM
I hate to be argumenative (we are all on the same side here) -- but I just haven't seen anything remotely shady/questionable from the judges yet. (Except for Joran being allowed a Bible  :wink:) If the Bible has a file in it -- let's talk!

I hope he is quietly asking for Vaseline.
:smt082 :smt082 :smt082 :smt082 :smt082 :smt040 :smt005 :smt046 :smt045 :smt033 :smt091 :smt116 :smt110 :smt081 :smt081 :smt082 :smt082 :smt082 :smt082


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Blue Moon on November 29, 2007, 07:45:58 PM
Local news abc3340 led with Natalee Holloway story tonight...pretty much the same stuff we already know except the interview with Dave Holloway.  Mentioned the boat that left from Louisiana today and the new search that was planned.  Dave said the prosecutor told him a "couple weeks" ago that Natalee was no longer alive. 

Next question that Hammer has been asking for 2 years now...HOW DOES MOS KNOW SHE IS DEAD?

Someone told them...showed them...or they heard it from the wire taps. 

I still think Mos has pictures/video from that night.  Just the way he made that comment on Gretas about "WHAT IF" someone had a video or how he explaned manslaughter "LIKE" hitting someone with an ax.  He appeared to me to be putting the fear of GOD into someone in that interview.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 07:46:01 PM
Local news abc3340 led with Natalee Holloway story tonight...pretty much the same stuff we already know except the interview with Dave Holloway.  Mentioned the boat that left from Louisiana today and the new search that was planned.  Dave said the prosecutor told him a "couple weeks" ago that Natalee was no longer alive. 

Next question that Hammer has been asking for 2 years now...HOW DOES MOS KNOW SHE IS DEAD?

Someone told them...showed them...or they heard it from the wire taps. 

Dave/TES/KLPD/FBI/Prosecutor all working together.  They know Natalee is not alive.  Maybe they do have a pretty good idea where in the ocean she was put?

"if they find the girl then they will see that shit"

God lets hope they find her!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 07:47:48 PM
i kept this little bit...I don't remember which interview it was from.....


Reporter: Well, I think if you can explain to people what really happened, and you were really forthcoming, the more forthcoming you are, the more chance there will be for you to get on with your life.

Joran van der Sloot: One day, I will explain exactly what happened, but, right now, I don’t feel ready to do that.

wasnt that from when her first fled to the Netherlands?

Yes - the Current Affair interview broadcast on September 26, 2005


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 07:49:39 PM
Local news abc3340 led with Natalee Holloway story tonight...pretty much the same stuff we already know except the interview with Dave Holloway.  Mentioned the boat that left from Louisiana today and the new search that was planned.  Dave said the prosecutor told him a "couple weeks" ago that Natalee was no longer alive. 

Next question that Hammer has been asking for 2 years now...HOW DOES MOS KNOW SHE IS DEAD?

Someone told them...showed them...or they heard it from the wire taps. 

I still think Mos has pictures/video from that night.  Just the way he made that comment on Gretas about "WHAT IF" someone had a video or how he explaned manslaughter "LIKE" hitting someone with an ax.  He appeared to me to be putting the fear of GOD into someone in that interview.

WOW

That brings back memories of a hatchetman or axeman or whatever - the dude running around aruba probably stoned with an Axe

Didnt he approach Greta's car or a reporters car or something?

Wasnt there a picture of a guy with an axe?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 07:51:36 PM
Joran has not let anything stop his love of gambling.
http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/joran_sloot    
One of his nicknames is angryshark 68

Here is a new cute mug shot  http://joranvandersloot.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!9E74C66583487C84!780/
(Dont know how to post pictures)

Yes, we've posted alot of those Spaces photos a long time ago.  Hadn't seen his Pocketfive site though.  Thanks!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 07:52:48 PM
For every appearance by Joe T, I would like to see one by John Q Kelley or someone else knowledgeable about the case who is NOT in Aruba presenting an Aruban slant on things.

It's not fair to have nonstop Joe T like this, forming a very pro-Joran image in the American media with very little to counter it.  I wonder why Greta and others are doing this and why they are defending Joran's position all day long.

Free junkets for all Fox News personnel plus CNN and MSNBC?  Millions in advertising dollars?  What's the deal why we have to see his putrid face constantly?  You can't get away from this guy, Joe T.

.

Anna, I am sure you are right in that there are many in some quarters who tend to believe Joe; however, the more I see him, the worse I dislike him, the more concerned I am, however, that his thugs are out threatening the lives of judges and witnesses and he is being empowered by those groupies of Aruba.  Why else would  like people such as Refugees love them so much if they were not all cut from the same degenerate mold?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 29, 2007, 07:53:09 PM
i kept this little bit...I don't remember which interview it was from.....


Reporter: Well, I think if you can explain to people what really happened, and you were really forthcoming, the more forthcoming you are, the more chance there will be for you to get on with your life.

Joran van der Sloot: One day, I will explain exactly what happened, but, right now, I don’t feel ready to do that.

wasnt that from when her first fled to the Netherlands?


Yes...on Campus. Inside Edition?
(Sorry if this has been answered)...behind again.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Blonde on November 29, 2007, 07:54:10 PM
OK OK I didn't read the last few pages to see if anyone posted last night transcript
So delete me if you need to Klaas

VAN SUSTEREN: You have answered Jossy. Let me ask you about the new and incriminating evidence, that is the statement of the prosecutor. And Joran's lawyer has gotten 15 pages—a mysterious 15 pages. Do you have any idea what is in them?

TACOPINA: Yes, I do.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there anything new?

TACOPINA: Not for my eyes.

VAN SUSTEREN: Are there new wiretaps?

TACOPINA: There are new recordings.

VAN SUSTEREN: What do you mean by new recordings?

TACOPINA: They placed bugs in the homes of the suspects at different times. This is what I hate to do to you, but I cannot get into the specifics. What I will say is this—there are no wiretap conversations that postdate 2005. There is no evidence against Joran, and no incriminating evidence.

VAN SUSTEREN: Joe, are there new recordings of any of the three since April 2007?

TACOPINA: Again, I am going to take a pass on that, because the rules right now that are in place—I do not want to violate them. I want cooperation, and I want to be able to share our information with the authorities.

VAN SUSTEREN: Then answer it this way—do you at least know that answer?

TACOPINA: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: I am not going to ask you the incriminating question because you are a defense lawyer, and I know your answer. How is your client doing in jail?

TACOPINA: He is actually doing quite well, considering the conditions he is held under. He is a mentally tough kid. He is now 19, was 17 at the time. This has advanced him years by way of really giving him a life's lesson.

And, certainly, he has been through this before. We are actually going to court tomorrow for a hearing to reduce the restrictions. He is in a cage with no reading material. He cannot read the Bible, he can't read a book. He can't say hi to his parents, his brother can't visit him—no outside contact.

That serves absolutely no investigatory person. What that is supposed to do is try to break a boy to get him to say something that may not be true. It will not happen, here, but that is the condition he is living under.

VAN SUSTEREN: we have 10 seconds left—do you have plans to go to Aruba or not? And if you do have plans, when are you going?

TACOPINA: I'll be there next week with the whole team.

VAN SUSTEREN: How long will you be there?

TACOPINA: As long as it takes to get what we need to get done, done. How's that?

VAN SUSTEREN: We will do a phone interview when you get there. Make sure you give us your phone number.

TACOPINA: Sure, OK.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, Joe, thank you.

TACOPINA: Bye, Greta.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 29, 2007, 07:55:14 PM
Local news abc3340 led with Natalee Holloway story tonight...pretty much the same stuff we already know except the interview with Dave Holloway.  Mentioned the boat that left from Louisiana today and the new search that was planned.  Dave said the prosecutor told him a "couple weeks" ago that Natalee was no longer alive. 

Next question that Hammer has been asking for 2 years now...HOW DOES MOS KNOW SHE IS DEAD?

Someone told them...showed them...or they heard it from the wire taps. 

Dave/TES/KLPD/FBI/Prosecutor all working together.  They know Natalee is not alive.  Maybe they do have a pretty good idea where in the ocean she was put?


I believe they do, at least within a reasonable zone...otherwise it would be worse than finding a needle in a haystack. That is one huge pond out there, ya know.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 29, 2007, 07:56:29 PM
Greta has edited the Fox transcript.

Tacopino said directly: "the homes were bugged and one of the Kalpoe brothers was taped admitting he had returned later to the beach that night"

I think this edit was made because the attorneys are forbidden by the Judge to discuss the nature of the new evidence.

Watch between 5:00 and 5:30 minutes into the tape:

THIS IS INCRIMINATING AND SOLID EVIDENCE IF TRUE.

HOW CERTAIN ARE YOU THAT THIS WAS IN THE YOUTUBE CLIP. I LISTENED BETWEEN 500-530 AND WAS INDECISIVE, IF YOU WERE REFERRING TO GRETA EDITING THE TAPE. OTHERWISE, I DID NOT HEAR HIM SAY THAT ABOUT A KALPOE RETURNING TO THE BEACH.

PLEASE CLARIFY, IF POSSIBLE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHmDqS0dOkc


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 07:58:49 PM
OK OK I didn't read the last few pages to see if anyone posted last night transcript
So delete me if you need to Klaas

VAN SUSTEREN: You have answered Jossy. Let me ask you about the new and incriminating evidence, that is the statement of the prosecutor. And Joran's lawyer has gotten 15 pages—a mysterious 15 pages. Do you have any idea what is in them?

TACOPINA: Yes, I do.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there anything new?

TACOPINA: Not for my eyes.

VAN SUSTEREN: Are there new wiretaps?

TACOPINA: There are new recordings.

VAN SUSTEREN: What do you mean by new recordings?

TACOPINA: They placed bugs in the homes of the suspects at different times. This is what I hate to do to you, but I cannot get into the specifics. What I will say is this—there are no wiretap conversations that postdate 2005. There is no evidence against Joran, and no incriminating evidence.

VAN SUSTEREN: Joe, are there new recordings of any of the three since April 2007?

TACOPINA: Again, I am going to take a pass on that, because the rules right now that are in place—I do not want to violate them. I want cooperation, and I want to be able to share our information with the authorities.

VAN SUSTEREN: Then answer it this way—do you at least know that answer?

TACOPINA: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: I am not going to ask you the incriminating question because you are a defense lawyer, and I know your answer. How is your client doing in jail?

TACOPINA: He is actually doing quite well, considering the conditions he is held under. He is a mentally tough kid. He is now 19, was 17 at the time. This has advanced him years by way of really giving him a life's lesson.

And, certainly, he has been through this before. We are actually going to court tomorrow for a hearing to reduce the restrictions. He is in a cage with no reading material. He cannot read the Bible, he can't read a book. He can't say hi to his parents, his brother can't visit him—no outside contact.

That serves absolutely no investigatory person. What that is supposed to do is try to break a boy to get him to say something that may not be true. It will not happen, here, but that is the condition he is living under.

VAN SUSTEREN: we have 10 seconds left—do you have plans to go to Aruba or not? And if you do have plans, when are you going?

TACOPINA: I'll be there next week with the whole team.

VAN SUSTEREN: How long will you be there?

TACOPINA: As long as it takes to get what we need to get done, done. How's that?

VAN SUSTEREN: We will do a phone interview when you get there. Make sure you give us your phone number.

TACOPINA: Sure, OK.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, Joe, thank you.

TACOPINA: Bye, Greta.



Darn, he uses that "in a cage" phrase quite loosely, sounds like a freudian slip.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 08:05:03 PM
I think we should all take a deep breath and re-watch the Hans Mos interview.

No one would be more disappointed than me to discover these developments were manipulation to just close the case. I feel very confident that is not what is going on. I do believe that it is the intent of Hans Mos to bring the suspects to trial, and I do believe that he feels strongly that the three suspects are guilty. I do believe that when he had them arrested, he was sure he had enough new, incriminating evidence to do so. I ALSO think that as he examined the existing evidence, he tried very hard to figure out a way to use it, because he felt it had been squandered previously and that there was a lot there for a case already had it just been pursued.

He cannot, however, do this alone. He is dependent on a fair, unbiased judge, and able interrogators, and honest ALE. So far, I have no problem with Joran being given a Bible. I would have given Joran a Bible. I would have given Jack The Ripper a Bible, if he wanted one.

There is mounting attempts at influence in the case right now from Tacky and his evil spawn, Rosemary's Baby. IMO, it's paramount for the perception of Arubans to be that if this case is finally resolved, and by that I mean those reponsible are held accountable for their actions, then and ONLY then will it go away and tourists view Aruba as a vacation option in the numbers that were there pre-Natalee.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 29, 2007, 08:11:06 PM
Mos was fishing months ago

he has 3 on the hook

Mos might be investigating the conversations that were BUGGED as soon as the
suspects knew they were being arrested

after they hauled joran off, they might have been listening to the SLOOOOOOOT HOUSE of HORRORS
and the same for the K2 house

THIS SCENARIO WOULD BE IDEAL FOR LISTENING TO.

PROBABLY DISCLOSED QUITE A BIT OF INFO. NOTHING TOO CRAZY THOUGH - JUST MORE THAN TOLD TO ALE AT THE TIME OF FIRST ARREST.

these little things take time  :cool:

Glad you are back Robots!!!  :smt052
I still think the Prosecution was tapping deepak while he was gabbing with the American lawyers!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 29, 2007, 08:13:08 PM
Joran has not let anything stop his love of gambling.
http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/joran_sloot    
One of his nicknames is angryshark 68

Here is a new cute mug shot  http://joranvandersloot.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!9E74C66583487C84!780/
(Dont know how to post pictures)

Yes, we've posted alot of those Spaces photos a long time ago.  Hadn't seen his Pocketfive site though.  Thanks!

He DEFINATELY has a gambling problem!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 29, 2007, 08:14:48 PM
Didn't Dave give Paulus a bible for Joran when he was in jail the last time?  I don't remember exactly if it was books, or the good book.

NYC_Lover posted a link to Joran's myspace (I think it was myspace) and showed last logged on 11/27/07....I think that was yesterday she posted it.

I missed that...do we have a link?

THIS, I AM SURE, CAN BE FALSIFIED.
NO INTERNET JOR JORAN WHILE IN THE POKIE.
I DO NOT BUY IT.

I had to search for NYC_Lover's post... :roll:  :2doh:  Yesterday, it said 11/27/07 and now it says 11/28/07..

http://www.myspace.com/japvs


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Kat_Gram on November 29, 2007, 08:15:25 PM
For every appearance by Joe T, I would like to see one by John Q Kelley or someone else knowledgeable about the case who is NOT in Aruba presenting an Aruban slant on things.

It's not fair to have nonstop Joe T like this, forming a very pro-Joran image in the American media with very little to counter it.  I wonder why Greta and others are doing this and why they are defending Joran's position all day long.

Free junkets for all Fox News personnel plus CNN and MSNBC?  Millions in advertising dollars?  What's the deal why we have to see his putrid face constantly?  You can't get away from this guy, Joe T.

.

Anna, I am sure you are right in that there are many in some quarters who tend to believe Joe; however, the more I see him, the worse I dislike him, the more concerned I am, however, that his thugs are out threatening the lives of judges and witnesses and he is being empowered by those groupies of Aruba.  Why else would  like people such as Refugees love them so much if they were not all cut from the same degenerate mold?
Tylergal; I am glad you are here. You said something last nite about Joe and Roemary ??
being inovlved in this case longer than we knew.
I remember when Joe T first came on to the TV as Joran's attorney. It was around the time of the Civil Suit in NY. There was an investigator that worked for Joe and he was on and said that he had been on the case for and he gave the date... and it was well before the civil suit or before the Sloots supposedly hired Joe T. Does anyone else remember that ? Why a lawyer like Joe before the NY suit ? What are these ppl afraid of ? No one went to Aruba with the intent of uncovering anything. Natalee went there for a vaction. Her parents went there to look for her. What is going to be exposed at a trial ?      


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 29, 2007, 08:16:19 PM
Joran has not let anything stop his love of gambling.
http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/joran_sloot    
One of his nicknames is angryshark 68

Here is a new cute mug shot  http://joranvandersloot.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!9E74C66583487C84!780/
(Dont know how to post pictures)

Interesting...thanks.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: chelebele on November 29, 2007, 08:20:43 PM
Joran has not let anything stop his love of gambling.
http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/joran_sloot    
One of his nicknames is angryshark 68

Here is a new cute mug shot  http://joranvandersloot.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!9E74C66583487C84!780/
(Dont know how to post pictures)

Yes, we've posted alot of those Spaces photos a long time ago.  Hadn't seen his Pocketfive site though.  Thanks!

He DEFINATELY has a gambling problem!!!

I wonder where he gets all his money. One of his favorite games is listed as the $100 and over tournament. I didn't have that kind of money to lose when I was in college. I wonder if Paulus and Anita give him that much money, or if he's getting it some other way. I've never heard anything about him having a job.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 08:21:55 PM
If Tacky gets under your skin, just remember that today I heard him say that the Police car recording was ALL they had. He said the same thing two days ago, but yesterday said that there were bugs in the house.

A major problem is that the interviewers do not know the details of the case and therefore, when Tacky gets aggresive and boisturous, they just buy what he's saying without challenge. We get furious, because we know better. Hans knows the case. He caused them to be rearrested after 2 1/2 years, and SO FAR, Joran has only a Bible. Joran does not have either parent, Deepak does not have his desired attorney, they are in separate facilities on the island and SO FAR, a judge has upheld their incarcerations.

For me, it is HUGE that they were ever brought in again. It would have been a small bleep on the news had the case been declared cold and closed pended anything new popping up and then Aruba's line would be, "If something ever comes up, we'll reopen it." End of story.

No one in their right mind would choose this course of action knowingly, to just plaster it across worldwide screens again and then announce the boys were free,


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 29, 2007, 08:25:44 PM
SO.........WHAT IS THE CONSENSUS - DOES ANYONE HAVE SUBSTANTIATED INFO WHERE IT WAS MENTIONED DEEPAK WENT BACK TO BEACH AT 300AM OR WHENEVER  ??

MY SPACE PAGE IS NOT BEING UTILIZED BY JORAN. NOT WHILE IN THE POKIE. I DO NOT BUY IT FOR ONE MINUTE. I WOULD HATE TO THINK I WAS WRONG ON THIS.

KALPOES TALKING TO AMERICAN LAWYERS WOULD HAVE BEEN IDEAL TO LISTEN IN ON. DON'T THINK SPECIFICS WOULD BE SPOKEN ABOUT... BUT-MAY HAVE TOLD THEM MORE THAN ALE DURING THE FIRST ARREST PERIOD.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Buckeye on November 29, 2007, 08:25:45 PM
Tyler

Thanks but I still didn't pick up anything except a Mexican with the name Figueroa.  :roll:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 08:26:06 PM
JoeT doesn't get under my skin, I know he's FOS.  He's been caught in almost as many lies as Renfro.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 08:27:21 PM
Joran has not let anything stop his love of gambling.
http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/joran_sloot    
One of his nicknames is angryshark 68

Here is a new cute mug shot  http://joranvandersloot.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!9E74C66583487C84!780/
(Dont know how to post pictures)

Yes, we've posted alot of those Spaces photos a long time ago.  Hadn't seen his Pocketfive site though.  Thanks!

He DEFINATELY has a gambling problem!!!

I wonder where he gets all his money. One of his favorite games is listed as the $100 and over tournament. I didn't have that kind of money to lose when I was in college. I wonder if Paulus and Anita give him that much money, or if he's getting it some other way. I've never heard anything about him having a job.

I believe he is a drug dealer.  When Beth arrived on the island it was said Joran was a drug dealer or she got in the car with a known drug dealer something like that.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 08:28:05 PM
SO.........WHAT IS THE CONSENSUS - DOES ANYONE HAVE SUBSTANTIATED INFO WHERE IT WAS MENTIONED DEEPAK WENT BACK TO BEACH AT 300AM OR WHENEVER  ??

MY SPACE PAGE IS NOT BEING UTILIZED BY JORAN. NOT WHILE IN THE POKIE. I DO NOT BUY IT FOR ONE MINUTE. I WOULD HATE TO THINK I WAS WRONG ON THIS.

KALPOES TALKING TO AMERICAN LAWYERS WOULD HAVE BEEN IDEAL TO LISTEN IN ON. DON'T THINK SPECIFICS WOULD BE SPOKEN ABOUT... BUT-MAY HAVE TOLD THEM MORE THAN ALE DURING THE FIRST ARREST PERIOD.


I think it's possible that it was JOSSY that mentioned that and not JoeT.  Not sure.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 29, 2007, 08:30:19 PM
JoeT doesn't get under my skin, I know he's FOS.  He's been caught in almost as many lies as Renfro.

DEEPAK GOING BACK TO BEACH - IS THIS RUMOR OR FACT ? OR INSIDE(CREDIBLE) INFO ?
STEVE CROES BREAKING INTO FISHERMAN'S HUTS - IS THIS RUMOR OR FACT ? OR INSIDE(CREDIBLE) INFO ?

KLAAS- NOT SINGLING YOU OUT. BUT YOU SURE KNOW YOUR STUFF.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: chelebele on November 29, 2007, 08:33:13 PM
Joran has not let anything stop his love of gambling.
http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/joran_sloot    
One of his nicknames is angryshark 68

Here is a new cute mug shot  http://joranvandersloot.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!9E74C66583487C84!780/
(Dont know how to post pictures)

Yes, we've posted alot of those Spaces photos a long time ago.  Hadn't seen his Pocketfive site though.  Thanks!

He DEFINATELY has a gambling problem!!!

I wonder where he gets all his money. One of his favorite games is listed as the $100 and over tournament. I didn't have that kind of money to lose when I was in college. I wonder if Paulus and Anita give him that much money, or if he's getting it some other way. I've never heard anything about him having a job.

I believe he is a drug dealer.  When Beth arrived on the island it was said Joran was a drug dealer or she got in the car with a known drug dealer something like that.

That's what I was thinking too. There's no way he's getting enough money from his parents to gamble like he does, and stay high all the time. What a good boy he is..... :roll: Anita and Paulus must be so proud.......


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 29, 2007, 08:34:02 PM
SO.........WHAT IS THE CONSENSUS - DOES ANYONE HAVE SUBSTANTIATED INFO WHERE IT WAS MENTIONED DEEPAK WENT BACK TO BEACH AT 300AM OR WHENEVER  ??

MY SPACE PAGE IS NOT BEING UTILIZED BY JORAN. NOT WHILE IN THE POKIE. I DO NOT BUY IT FOR ONE MINUTE. I WOULD HATE TO THINK I WAS WRONG ON THIS.

KALPOES TALKING TO AMERICAN LAWYERS WOULD HAVE BEEN IDEAL TO LISTEN IN ON. DON'T THINK SPECIFICS WOULD BE SPOKEN ABOUT... BUT-MAY HAVE TOLD THEM MORE THAN ALE DURING THE FIRST ARREST PERIOD.


I think it's possible that it was JOSSY that mentioned that and not JoeT.  Not sure.


I thought this was the lie Joran came up with after his attempt to say Satish picked him up from the beach fell through.  Didnt he then switch it to Deepak and try to say Deepak could have went back to the beach after he dropped him off at home?

Joran has always been trying to put one of those 2 back at the beach after dropping him off at home (as if they ever even dropped him off at home to begin with :roll:)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 08:36:58 PM
Joran has not let anything stop his love of gambling.
http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/joran_sloot    
One of his nicknames is angryshark 68

Here is a new cute mug shot  http://joranvandersloot.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!9E74C66583487C84!780/
(Dont know how to post pictures)

Yes, we've posted alot of those Spaces photos a long time ago.  Hadn't seen his Pocketfive site though.  Thanks!

He DEFINATELY has a gambling problem!!!

I wonder where he gets all his money. One of his favorite games is listed as the $100 and over tournament. I didn't have that kind of money to lose when I was in college. I wonder if Paulus and Anita give him that much money, or if he's getting it some other way. I've never heard anything about him having a job.

I believe he is a drug dealer.  When Beth arrived on the island it was said Joran was a drug dealer or she got in the car with a known drug dealer something like that.

That's what I was thinking too. There's no way he's getting enough money from his parents to gamble like he does, and stay high all the time. What a good boy he is..... :roll: Anita and Paulus must be so proud.......

They created a monster.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Kat_Gram on November 29, 2007, 08:37:52 PM
"I believe he is a drug dealer.  When Beth arrived on the island it was said Joran was a drug dealer or she got in the car with a known drug dealer something like that."
I remember that one, wasn't that on trip advisor ?
The source must have been one of the MB kids becasue there was nothing else happening then. But I never knew which one was meant ,D or J.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 08:38:25 PM
JoeT doesn't get under my skin, I know he's FOS.  He's been caught in almost as many lies as Renfro.

DEEPAK GOING BACK TO BEACH - IS THIS RUMOR OR FACT ? OR INSIDE(CREDIBLE) INFO ?
STEVE CROES BREAKING INTO FISHERMAN'S HUTS - IS THIS RUMOR OR FACT ? OR INSIDE(CREDIBLE) INFO ?

KLAAS- NOT SINGLING YOU OUT. BUT YOU SURE KNOW YOUR STUFF.


#1 - Deepak going back to the beach - The only statements regarding this came from Joran, the admitted habitual liar.

#2 - Rumor that it was Steve Croes that may have broken into the Fisherman's Huts.  I don't have an inside credible info on that.  As far as I know rumor only.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 08:40:13 PM
For every appearance by Joe T, I would like to see one by John Q Kelley or someone else knowledgeable about the case who is NOT in Aruba presenting an Aruban slant on things.

It's not fair to have nonstop Joe T like this, forming a very pro-Joran image in the American media with very little to counter it.  I wonder why Greta and others are doing this and why they are defending Joran's position all day long.

Free junkets for all Fox News personnel plus CNN and MSNBC?  Millions in advertising dollars?  What's the deal why we have to see his putrid face constantly?  You can't get away from this guy, Joe T.

.

Anna, I am sure you are right in that there are many in some quarters who tend to believe Joe; however, the more I see him, the worse I dislike him, the more concerned I am, however, that his thugs are out threatening the lives of judges and witnesses and he is being empowered by those groupies of Aruba.  Why else would  like people such as Refugees love them so much if they were not all cut from the same degenerate mold?
Tylergal; I am glad you are here. You said something last nite about Joe and Roemary ??
being inovlved in this case longer than we knew.
I remember when Joe T first came on to the TV as Joran's attorney. It was around the time of the Civil Suit in NY. There was an investigator that worked for Joe and he was on and said that he had been on the case for and he gave the date... and it was well before the civil suit or before the Sloots supposedly hired Joe T. Does anyone else remember that ? Why a lawyer like Joe before the NY suit ? What are these ppl afraid of ? No one went to Aruba with the intent of uncovering anything. Natalee went there for a vaction. Her parents went there to look for her. What is going to be exposed at a trial ?     

They became involved with this case about the same time Red went to Aruba. :idea:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 08:41:46 PM
Tyler

Thanks but I still didn't pick up anything except a Mexican with the name Figueroa.  :roll:

You need superduper Google.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Port Valerie on November 29, 2007, 08:41:50 PM
OK OK I didn't read the last few pages to see if anyone posted last night transcript
So delete me if you need to Klaas

VAN SUSTEREN: You have answered Jossy. Let me ask you about the new and incriminating evidence, that is the statement of the prosecutor. And Joran's lawyer has gotten 15 pages—a mysterious 15 pages. Do you have any idea what is in them?

TACOPINA: Yes, I do.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there anything new?

TACOPINA: Not for my eyes.

VAN SUSTEREN: Are there new wiretaps?

TACOPINA: There are new recordings.

VAN SUSTEREN: What do you mean by new recordings?

TACOPINA: They placed bugs in the homes of the suspects at different times. This is what I hate to do to you, but I cannot get into the specifics. What I will say is this—there are no wiretap conversations that postdate 2005. There is no evidence against Joran, and no incriminating evidence.

VAN SUSTEREN: Joe, are there new recordings of any of the three since April 2007?

TACOPINA: Again, I am going to take a pass on that, because the rules right now that are in place—I do not want to violate them. I want cooperation, and I want to be able to share our information with the authorities.

VAN SUSTEREN: Then answer it this way—do you at least know that answer?

TACOPINA: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: I am not going to ask you the incriminating question because you are a defense lawyer, and I know your answer. How is your client doing in jail?

TACOPINA: He is actually doing quite well, considering the conditions he is held under. He is a mentally tough kid. He is now 19, was 17 at the time. This has advanced him years by way of really giving him a life's lesson.

And, certainly, he has been through this before. We are actually going to court tomorrow for a hearing to reduce the restrictions. He is in a cage with no reading material. He cannot read the Bible, he can't read a book. He can't say hi to his parents, his brother can't visit him—no outside contact.

That serves absolutely no investigatory person. What that is supposed to do is try to break a boy to get him to say something that may not be true. It will not happen, here, but that is the condition he is living under.

VAN SUSTEREN: we have 10 seconds left—do you have plans to go to Aruba or not? And if you do have plans, when are you going?

TACOPINA: I'll be there next week with the whole team.

VAN SUSTEREN: How long will you be there?

TACOPINA: As long as it takes to get what we need to get done, done. How's that?

VAN SUSTEREN: We will do a phone interview when you get there. Make sure you give us your phone number.

TACOPINA: Sure, OK.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, Joe, thank you.

TACOPINA: Bye, Greta.



Thanks for the transcript. This was not a slip of the tongue. Taco intentionally drops in the idea that bugs were used. Again, notice the plural -- "homes." There was one home for both Kalpoes. Any additional home would be Joran's -- in the NL -- or Joran's home in Aruba, whether Joran was present or not. Thus ... maybe the bugs caught Anita and Paulus.

Given that this is not accidental, why did Joe Taco drop the bug bomb? I don't get it. He could be working with the defense team or he is a loose cannon. If he's working with the defense team, then what do they hope to accomplish by leaking stuff against their own law? If he's a loose cannon, won't the defense lawyers want to shut him up? Or is he out of their reach?

Joe Taco might just be an idiot keeping himself on TV by saying new things.





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 08:43:10 PM
SO.........WHAT IS THE CONSENSUS - DOES ANYONE HAVE SUBSTANTIATED INFO WHERE IT WAS MENTIONED DEEPAK WENT BACK TO BEACH AT 300AM OR WHENEVER  ??

MY SPACE PAGE IS NOT BEING UTILIZED BY JORAN. NOT WHILE IN THE POKIE. I DO NOT BUY IT FOR ONE MINUTE. I WOULD HATE TO THINK I WAS WRONG ON THIS.

KALPOES TALKING TO AMERICAN LAWYERS WOULD HAVE BEEN IDEAL TO LISTEN IN ON. DON'T THINK SPECIFICS WOULD BE SPOKEN ABOUT... BUT-MAY HAVE TOLD THEM MORE THAN ALE DURING THE FIRST ARREST PERIOD.

Janet posted where that came from earlier today, I think. Hang on, I'll see if I can find it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: chelebele on November 29, 2007, 08:43:46 PM
I wish Mos would gather up everybody that had ever "seen" anything and make them give statements. Like the guy Greta "outed" about the car washing by the Kalpoe's. It kills me that there are people who know things that they won't tell the police. I wonder who they're so afraid of???


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Observer on November 29, 2007, 08:43:58 PM
Joran has not let anything stop his love of gambling.
http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/joran_sloot   
One of his nicknames is angryshark 68

Here is a new cute mug shot  http://joranvandersloot.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!9E74C66583487C84!780/
(Dont know how to post pictures)

Thanks..Looks like he he was on cloud 9 with his biggest win ever on 11/20/07. He won $4,776 on a $33 tourney. The next day he wasnt so lucky  :D


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 29, 2007, 08:47:26 PM
Word at RU is that they may plan to bombard the most recent Natalee search blog (link I posted earlier from BFN) with their garbage. Karn has already made a post but it has not shown up yet. They will stop at nothing to wreak havoc. It is so obvious they do not want her found. They make me hurl.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Karn's post>>>@RU
~kaRN Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:36 pm   

I posted this anonymous comment at the blog


My concern with this deep sea search is that you will be transporting a deceased Natalee Holloway and planting her exactly where her Mommy wants her to be found. But my concern will never meet your moderation criteria will it. LOL

So far no comments have been posted and I doubt mine will but I do believe they should inundated(sp?) with our opinions. Will ALE be supervising this search? The FBI? Beth and Dave maybe? Didn't we speculate she might be in a long term care facility in Louisiana early on? 

~~~~~~~
These freaks are beyond sick.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Observer on November 29, 2007, 08:47:40 PM
JoeT doesn't get under my skin, I know he's FOS.  He's been caught in almost as many lies as Renfro.

DEEPAK GOING BACK TO BEACH - IS THIS RUMOR OR FACT ? OR INSIDE(CREDIBLE) INFO ?
STEVE CROES BREAKING INTO FISHERMAN'S HUTS - IS THIS RUMOR OR FACT ? OR INSIDE(CREDIBLE) INFO ?

KLAAS- NOT SINGLING YOU OUT. BUT YOU SURE KNOW YOUR STUFF.


The Vigilante Newspaper from Curacao printed a article before June 17th 2005 that Steve Croes may have been involved in breaking into the Fisherman Huts. They did not say for sure and did not list a source.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 08:50:23 PM
SO.........WHAT IS THE CONSENSUS - DOES ANYONE HAVE SUBSTANTIATED INFO WHERE IT WAS MENTIONED DEEPAK WENT BACK TO BEACH AT 300AM OR WHENEVER  ??

MY SPACE PAGE IS NOT BEING UTILIZED BY JORAN. NOT WHILE IN THE POKIE. I DO NOT BUY IT FOR ONE MINUTE. I WOULD HATE TO THINK I WAS WRONG ON THIS.

KALPOES TALKING TO AMERICAN LAWYERS WOULD HAVE BEEN IDEAL TO LISTEN IN ON. DON'T THINK SPECIFICS WOULD BE SPOKEN ABOUT... BUT-MAY HAVE TOLD THEM MORE THAN ALE DURING THE FIRST ARREST PERIOD.

Janet posted where that came from earlier today, I think. Hang on, I'll see if I can find it.

Sorry Buckshot. This is what I was think of and this just pinpoints Joran at the beach around that time............................but that came from somewhere and was posted. I'll keep looking. Below is from Tamik's post earlier today:


David Kock - Satish's Attorney
On the Record w/ Greta
August 24, 2005

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So your client, 2 o'clock to 3 o'clock, is on the Internet at home. I've been in his room. I've seen the computer, or at least where it was. And he gets phone calls at 2:40 and 3 a.m. from Joran. Where do the cell records place the phone that Joran is using at 2:40 and 3 o'clock in the morning?

DAVID KOCK, SATISH KALPOE'S ATTORNEY:: Well, there's not an exact pinpoint indication, but the general area is the area here in north in Palm Beach of the hotel.

VAN SUSTEREN: So it looks like he's not home at that hour, but someplace near the Marriott, is that right?

KOCK: That is correct. He is in this neighborhood.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there any explanation as to how he got from the hotel to his home?

KOCK: No, other than what my client stated that he heard or was told by Joran, is that he went home walking. But you know, we don't have any way to verify it. As I indicated in the past, on the path from here to his house, there are certain banks, gas stations, et cetera, that have video cameras that are filming the street. But they just keep them for a couple of days. So by the time the police went there to ask to get these videotapes, they were already wiped out. So you know, we cannot confirm it by any other means.
 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 29, 2007, 08:50:49 PM
BOY, the site was slammed for a few minutes there. I thought maybe we had some news.

The info that Deepak returned to the beach is not new, Joran said that himself. That means that Joran was still there... or had asked Deepak to go back there. To find his shoes? Remember the gardener story? Deepak was NOT safe at home, snug in bed, at 3 AM. We knew that already.

I don't think Joran can spin this to help himself out at all.

"Deepak came with some dogs."


http://onlineslangdictionary.com/thesaurus/words+meaning+friend.html

The Online Slang Dictionary

dog
 
noun

1.  an unattractive person.
They're such a dog!

2.  a friend. Also dawg.
What's up, dog?
He's my dog.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 29, 2007, 08:51:20 PM
JoeT doesn't get under my skin, I know he's FOS.  He's been caught in almost as many lies as Renfro.

DEEPAK GOING BACK TO BEACH - IS THIS RUMOR OR FACT ? OR INSIDE(CREDIBLE) INFO ?
STEVE CROES BREAKING INTO FISHERMAN'S HUTS - IS THIS RUMOR OR FACT ? OR INSIDE(CREDIBLE) INFO ?

KLAAS- NOT SINGLING YOU OUT. BUT YOU SURE KNOW YOUR STUFF.


#1 - Deepak going back to the beach - The only statements regarding this came from Joran, the admitted habitual liar.

#2 - Rumor that it was Steve Croes that may have broken into the Fisherman's Huts.  I don't have an inside credible info on that.  As far as I know rumor only.


BOTH SEEM TO FIT, THOUGH.
THANKS FOR CLEARING THAT UP, KLAAS.

BLAH - JOSSY DID NOT SAY IT EITHER. I JUST RE-LISTENED TO IT.

SOMETHING IS BINDING (ONE OF) THE KALPOES TO THE SLOOTS. WHAT IS IT?
WITNESSING THE CRIME, SUPPLYING THE DRUGS - PILLS (XTC/GHB), MONEY, THREATS.
CAN NOT FIGURE IT OUT. BINDING ONE IS LIKE BINDING TWO (IMO) BECAUSE OF SIBLING RELATIONSHIP. THE REASONS CITED WOULD HAVE CAUSED MOST TO FLIP MUCH EARLIER DUE TO JORAN AND PAULUS BEING INVOLVED MORE THAN THEM. COULD BE THE CROWN WITNESSES. THEY SHOULD HAVE SOLD THEIR STORIES A LONG TIME AGO. AND I HAVE SAID THIS SEVERAL TIMES, THEY HAD BETTER HAD A PLAN SHOULD A RE-ARREST LIKE THIS TAKE PLACE. THE STAGE IS BEING SET FOR TWO SCAPEGOATS......AND IT MAY NOT BE THE SLOOTS THAT I AM REFERRING TO.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Noly on November 29, 2007, 08:52:17 PM
Joran has not let anything stop his love of gambling.
http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/joran_sloot    
One of his nicknames is angryshark 68

Here is a new cute mug shot  http://joranvandersloot.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!9E74C66583487C84!780/
(Dont know how to post pictures)

Here is another

http://www.nkpoker.nl/players/playerprofile.asp?id={8E44A4C8-54CD-42CC-A51D-84961C88442E}#


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 09:01:56 PM
the thing that binds K2 and joran is that either 1 or 2 of the K2 are just as guilty as joran

simple as that -- i think  :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 29, 2007, 09:03:17 PM
JORAN IMPLICATED EITHER DEEPAK OR SATISH

David Kock
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
February 20, 2006


KOCK: Yes, well, you know what it is? The problem is that he was confronted with a phone call that he made from his cellular to the cellular of one of my clients, so then he had to give a justification for that. Since that cellular number was Deepak's cellular number, he first indicated that he called Deepak to have Deepak pick him up. Afterwards, the police confronted him with proof that Deepak was at home at that time on his computer, because Internet records show that. So then he had to change his story, and since he said, I made the call to that house, he had to give another, you know, solution for the fact that the call was made and somebody picked him up. So, you know, then the other likely person was then Satish. It was more a matter of elimination, really.

COSBY: So what does that say to you about Joran Van Der Sloot? He's pointing the finger at your—at least one of your clients being some—playing some role here.

KOCK: Yes. Well, he's been doing that since early in the investigation, so it doesn't amaze me.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 29, 2007, 09:05:14 PM
Klaas ... would please change the yellow highlite in my quote to red.

Thanks

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: AZSunny on November 29, 2007, 09:07:27 PM
Help!  I have been on Mr. Toads wild ride today..

did they have the hearing and what was the outcome...thanks! I have scanned back but I can't find it. Nothing on front page that  I can see...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Observer on November 29, 2007, 09:08:11 PM
Deepak has never stood up for himself when people tell him what Joran accuses him of. He simply says you would need to ask Joran why he says that.  Strange :-?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 29, 2007, 09:09:08 PM
the thing that binds K2 and joran is that either 1 or 2 of the K2 are just as guilty as joran

simple as that -- i think  :cool:

I AGREE !!!

BACK TO THE ROCK PAINTINGS - DO YOU THINK THIS LOCATION PLAYS A PART AT ALL OR JUST SOMETHING TO THROW OFF THE INVESTIGATION ??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 09:09:19 PM
So far, Sunny, the only change is that Joran was allowed to have a Bible. The judge will rule on same atty for Kalpoes tomorrow.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 29, 2007, 09:10:05 PM
OT

Buckshot,

Any reason why you use lower case during the earlier part of the day and upper case at night?  Just an observation, today.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 09:10:56 PM
Help!  I have been on Mr. Toads wild ride today..

did they have the hearing and what was the outcome...thanks! I have scanned back but I can't find it. Nothing on front page that  I can see...

Yes, they did have a hearing today but NOT regarding if the K2 will remain 8 more days.

1.  To determine if K2 can have the same lawyer (decision will be made tomorrow)
2.  To determine if Joran can have books, newspapers, family visits, etc.  He was allowed a bible today but that is all.  They may decide on the rest tomorrow.

The decision regarding whether K2's will remain another 8 days will be made tomorrow as well.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 09:11:15 PM
personally

i think Mos has the 3 punks and he is trying to get the sweaty whale(s)


let the 3 punks sit in jail until they  puke up some info on sweaty whale


thats my opinion

why only get 3 when you can get 4 or more
 :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 29, 2007, 09:11:38 PM
OT

Buckshot,

Any reason why you use lower case during the earlier part of the day and upper case at night?  Just an observation, today.

NO - COINCIDENCE.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 09:11:45 PM
Tyler,
I remember what you are talking about Joe T and Rosemary being involved at least in some capacity from that Rizzio or whatever his name was, think he may have died since then?  Or one of the did but that was the time false evidence was being found all over the island like the duct tape, etc.

But you may be right about that being the time they became involved and I think that Rizzio was supposedly hired by Paulus who has no such money.  Always thought it was by Posner but cannot substantiate that.  Anyway, I think it is old mob connections from Posner's olden days.  He is why they were all there so very early.

Just my opinion only.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Observer on November 29, 2007, 09:12:06 PM
11.29.2007 JORAN UNHAPPY IN JAIL KALPOE EXT HEARING TOMORROW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOvbv10sisQ


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 09:13:51 PM
the thing that binds K2 and joran is that either 1 or 2 of the K2 are just as guilty as joran

simple as that -- i think  :cool:

I AGREE !!!

BACK TO THE ROCK PAINTINGS - DO YOU THINK THIS LOCATION PLAYS A PART AT ALL OR JUST SOMETHING TO THROW OFF THE INVESTIGATION ??


something happened there

im not sure what to make of it, but something went down there

blood, DNA, vomit

something ??????????????


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 09:15:13 PM
11.29.2007 JORAN UNHAPPY IN JAIL KALPOE EXT HEARING TOMORROW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOvbv10sisQ

Thanks ******* - I didn't see it yet!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: AZSunny on November 29, 2007, 09:15:33 PM
Help!  I have been on Mr. Toads wild ride today..

did they have the hearing and what was the outcome...thanks! I have scanned back but I can't find it. Nothing on front page that  I can see...

Yes, they did have a hearing today but NOT regarding if the K2 will remain 8 more days.

1.  To determine if K2 can have the same lawyer (decision will be made tomorrow)
2.  To determine if Joran can have books, newspapers, family visits, etc.  He was allowed a bible today but that is all.  They may decide on the rest tomorrow.

The decision regarding whether K2's will remain another 8 days will be made tomorrow as well.

Thanks for the update!!  I do apprecitate it...and you too CBB

Glad Joran got the bible, he needs it! :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 29, 2007, 09:15:42 PM
Tyler,
I remember what you are talking about Joe T and Rosemary being involved at least in some capacity from that Rizzio or whatever his name was, think he may have died since then?  Or one of the did but that was the time false evidence was being found all over the island like the duct tape, etc.

But you may be right about that being the time they became involved and I think that Rizzio was supposedly hired by Paulus who has no such money.  Always thought it was by Posner but cannot substantiate that.  Anyway, I think it is old mob connections from Posner's olden days.  He is why they were all there so very early.

Just my opinion only.

.

Rizzo...Frank, I think....Philadelphia


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 09:17:36 PM
personally

i think Mos has the 3 punks and he is trying to get the sweaty whale(s)


let the 3 punks sit in jail until they  puke up some info on sweaty whale


thats my opinion

why only get 3 when you can get 4 or more
 :cool:


All he needs is Deepak and Satish talking it over when they think they are alone plus someone infiltrating to get Joran to say the same thing in Holland and he has them.

Yes, let's hope it includes all involved.  At this point I don't think it is much more than J2K + Pvds.  I posted twice yesterday but it was ignored that new article on America's Most Wanted where Ed Miller says those close to the investigation say Geoffrey von Cromvoirt is believed to have sold them the date rate drugs.

But normally in a crime like this we never even know who the drug dealer is because could have been bought on any street corner especially in druggy Aruba.

MO only.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 29, 2007, 09:18:08 PM
LEAVING C&C TOGETHER, NATALEE DISAPPEARING, AND VERY FEW OTHER 100% CONCRETE FACTS EXIST IN THIS CASE.

EVERYTHING ELSE IS RUMOR / DEDUCTIVE THINKING / SPECULATION.

FELLOW MONKEYS HAVE DONE A GREAT JOB COMBINING INTERVIEWS, LEAKED INFO, LOGICAL THINKING, ETC.. TO REALLY COME UP WITH A VALID TIMELINE, PERIPHERAL PERSON(S) INVOLVED, ETC. ---- VERY IMPRESSIVE. I THOROUGHLY ENJOY PLAYING ONLINE DETECTIVE WITH ALL THOSE WHO CONTRIBUTE.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 29, 2007, 09:21:00 PM
Klaas ... would please change the yellow highlite in my quote to red.

Thanks

Janet

Thanks Klaas.

Now if you give me the option of editing my own posts ....

I promise not to tell the other Monkeys.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 09:22:54 PM
Tyler,
I remember what you are talking about Joe T and Rosemary being involved at least in some capacity from that Rizzio or whatever his name was, think he may have died since then?  Or one of the did but that was the time false evidence was being found all over the island like the duct tape, etc.

But you may be right about that being the time they became involved and I think that Rizzio was supposedly hired by Paulus who has no such money.  Always thought it was by Posner but cannot substantiate that.  Anyway, I think it is old mob connections from Posner's olden days.  He is why they were all there so very early.

Just my opinion only.

.

Rizzo...Frank, I think....Philadelphia

Yeah, him.  Real early in all this.

And 2NJ, don't be offended when people pick on Italians!  Think what they have said about the Dutch and I just carry on, LOL.  I get mad at them, too, the Dutch, much of the time.  They know better and sometimes I can tell when they are just punking us but can't prove it so just let it slide.  Makes me mad when they do that but I can pick up on it sometimes.  We are not seeing good examples of either Italians or the Dutch.  Except maybe Mos.  I like him.  And deVries.  The rest seem to really suck and are not typical I am sure.

But Frank Rizzio went to Aruba to help very early, Paulus supposedly and he is connected to Posner some how in the mob hierarchy.  Maybe I should not say that?  On my third hard drive already.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: GabbyG on November 29, 2007, 09:23:09 PM
Local news abc3340 led with Natalee Holloway story tonight...pretty much the same stuff we already know except the interview with Dave Holloway.  Mentioned the boat that left from Louisiana today and the new search that was planned.  Dave said the prosecutor told him a "couple weeks" ago that Natalee was no longer alive. 

Next question that Hammer has been asking for 2 years now...HOW DOES MOS KNOW SHE IS DEAD?

Someone told them...showed them...or they heard it from the wire taps. 

Dave/TES/KLPD/FBI/Prosecutor all working together.  They know Natalee is not alive.  Maybe they do have a pretty good idea where in the ocean she was put?


I believe they do, at least within a reasonable zone...otherwise it would be worse than finding a needle in a haystack. That is one huge pond out there, ya know.

Mos knows that Natalee is deceased and also knows more, obviously. I think he probably learned how she died and where her body is either from the phone taps, the house bugs, videos, etc. and I believe he was decent enough to share that information with either the FBI who informed Dave, or perhaps he even shared it with TES or Dave directly. I think Tim knows exactly where to look and I believe he will bring Natalee home at long last, and I believe we will have Mos to thank for that.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 09:23:14 PM
personally

i think Mos has the 3 punks and he is trying to get the sweaty whale(s)


let the 3 punks sit in jail until they  puke up some info on sweaty whale


thats my opinion

why only get 3 when you can get 4 or more
 :cool:


All he needs is Deepak and Satish talking it over when they think they are alone plus someone infiltrating to get Joran to say the same thing in Holland and he has them.

Yes, let's hope it includes all involved.  At this point I don't think it is much more than J2K + Pvds.  I posted twice yesterday but it was ignored that new article on America's Most Wanted where Ed Miller says those close to the investigation say Geoffrey von Cromvoirt is believed to have sold them the date rate drugs.

But normally in a crime like this we never even know who the drug dealer is because could have been bought on any street corner especially in druggy Aruba.

MO only.

.


yes and as you said the other day. let them go after the corruption at another date

i want the people that raped and killed and hid Natalee's body brought down

K2, joran and paulus are the players


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 09:24:09 PM
Local news abc3340 led with Natalee Holloway story tonight...pretty much the same stuff we already know except the interview with Dave Holloway.  Mentioned the boat that left from Louisiana today and the new search that was planned.  Dave said the prosecutor told him a "couple weeks" ago that Natalee was no longer alive. 

Next question that Hammer has been asking for 2 years now...HOW DOES MOS KNOW SHE IS DEAD?

Someone told them...showed them...or they heard it from the wire taps. 

Dave/TES/KLPD/FBI/Prosecutor all working together.  They know Natalee is not alive.  Maybe they do have a pretty good idea where in the ocean she was put?


I believe they do, at least within a reasonable zone...otherwise it would be worse than finding a needle in a haystack. That is one huge pond out there, ya know.

Mos knows that Natalee is deceased and also knows more, obviously. I think he probably learned how she died and where her body is either from the phone taps, the house bugs, videos, etc. and I believe he was decent enough to share that information with either the FBI who informed Dave, or perhaps he even shared it with TES or Dave directly. I think Tim knows exactly where to look and I believe he will bring Natalee home at long last, and I believe we will have Mos to thank for that.

i agree

thank you Mister Hans Mos  :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Observer on November 29, 2007, 09:27:02 PM


Rizzo...Frank, I think....Philadelphia

I thought he was from chicago and his name was ernie rizzo??. Was a bit of a legend from chi-town and sometimes appeared on TV as a commentater?? I always thought it was Posner's PI as well. When Posner spoke about it he said he hired Investigators as in more than one. I read up on what I could about this guy as he was old school and had a great rep. He bragged about his ability to look up cell phones numbers and impersonate people.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 09:27:36 PM
Joran has not let anything stop his love of gambling.
http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/joran_sloot   
One of his nicknames is angryshark 68

Here is a new cute mug shot  http://joranvandersloot.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!9E74C66583487C84!780/
(Dont know how to post pictures)

Thanks..Looks like he he was on cloud 9 with his biggest win ever on 11/20/07. He won $4,776 on a $33 tourney. The next day he wasnt so lucky  :D


For real???

I can't believe a jobless college freshman can play in that kind of stakes.

But I don't think Joran sells drugs because he is too lazy.  He would have to really hustle in either Aruba or Netherlands, too much competition and he is just not going to work that hard to make any amount of money to support all this.

I don't know where he gets his money but might be money laundering for the casino owners or something like that but Joran is not one to work hard enough to make money selling drugs in my opinion only.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 09:28:36 PM
Klaas ... would please change the yellow highlite in my quote to red.

Thanks

Janet

Thanks Klaas.

Now if you give me the option of editing my own posts ....

I promise not to tell the other Monkeys.

Janet

 :lol:  Actually when I saw it, I changed it from yellow to orange.  Then you requested red and CBB fixed it before I could to red.

I doubt the "edit button" will return.  Too much bad history at SM with the edit button.  I don't mind fixing things  :wink:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Observer on November 29, 2007, 09:31:06 PM
Joran has not let anything stop his love of gambling.
http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/joran_sloot   
One of his nicknames is angryshark 68

Here is a new cute mug shot  http://joranvandersloot.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!9E74C66583487C84!780/
(Dont know how to post pictures)

Thanks..Looks like he he was on cloud 9 with his biggest win ever on 11/20/07. He won $4,776 on a $33 tourney. The next day he wasnt so lucky  :D


For real???

I can't believe a jobless college freshman can play in that kind of stakes.

But I don't think Joran sells drugs because he is too lazy.  He would have to really hustle in either Aruba or Netherlands, too much competition and he is just not going to work that hard to make any amount of money to support all this.

I don't know where he gets his money but might be money laundering for the casino owners or something like that but Joran is not one to work hard enough to make money selling drugs in my opinion only.

.

He was not playing cheap tournaments either. I saw that he played up to $133 a game and judging by his wins he played a great deal. Especially in the last month.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 09:34:22 PM
frank Rizzo is a JERKY BOY character and is hilarious


i will tell you were joran gets his money

it will make you sick but here it is, i tell it like it is and of course people get upset but
im sure this is what was going on


Joran (gets the girls) to come with him and they do come with him (AT LEAST 20 TIMES before) then he gets the other punks like K2 brothers to PAY him so they can rape the girls, people that are 23 years old and still in high school are not attractive candidates as mates or dates

that is why K2 are willing to HAUL FAT ASS joran around at all hours of the night for free.....

sickening but true

joran gets money this way and of course the old fashioned way
HE STEALS it FROM EVERYONE even his own family
plus there are probably a rash of robberies at the health club

obviously joran wasnt getting any evercise there......delicious sporter

BULL CRAP  BULL CRAP   

i would knock his lights out with my pinky

 :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 09:35:54 PM
i woudl knock his lights out and he would be swallowing his own teeth
and im 89 years old


 :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 29, 2007, 09:37:25 PM
Other than the Holiday Inn fabrication ... I believe that each of Joran's accounts regarding how he got home that fateful morning as well as the insertion of the missing shoes has everything to do with implicating Deepak/Satish as being the last person/s alone with Natalee Holloway.  If Deepak or Satish admitted to picking up Joran at the beach they would be furthering Joran's agenda of implicating them in what happened to Natalee Holloway.  However ... if they maintain that they only dropped Natalee and Joran off at the Marriot Beach ... then they are implicating Joran as the last person with Natalee.

In my opinion, when you consider the gardener's observation at 2:30 AM on the morning that Natalee disappearance ... Joran, Deepak and Satish are all lying.  Joran, Deepak and (?) were together at 2:30 PM sitting in Deepaks parked vehicle across the street from the Marriot Beach and ... no Natalee.   

Janet

+++++++++++++++++


1.  "I WALKED HOME".

Joran is implying that Deepak/Satish returned to beach after he  contacted Deepak and stated he was in the process of walking home after leaving Natalee at the beach sleeping.


2.  "DEEPAK AND SATISH DROPPED ME OFF AT HOME AND LEFT WITH NATALEE".

Joran is implying that Deepak and Satish were the last persons observed with the missing 18 year old American citizen.


3.  "DEEPAK PICKED ME UP AT THE BEACH AND THEN RETURNED TO LOOK FOR MY SHOES."

Joran is implying that Deepak could have encountered Natalee Holloway at the Marriot Beach where she had been left alone a short time previous


4.  "SATISH PICKED ME UP AT THE BEACH AND THEN RETURNED TO LOOK FOR MY SHOES."

Joran is implying that Satish could have encountered Natalee Holloway at the Marriot Beach where she had been left alone a short time previous.
_______________________


Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
July 26, 2005


MANSUR: Because they were trying to hide their faces at that the hour, because we have to remember that the two Kalpoe brothers and Joran held on to the statement that they dropped Joran off at the beach and then went home. But here we have someone that says categorically that they did not go home, they were in the car with Joran. Joran was sitting in the driver`s seat.


Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
August 17, 2005


JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, "DIARIO": I don`t know what`s happening, but the gardener, the witness, did stand by his story. He did confirm in front of the judge, in front of the defense attorneys, in front of the suspects, that he recognized, and he even recognized two of the three suspects that were there. He hasn`t changed his story one bit


Beth Twitty
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
February 23, 2006


BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ... Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Kat_Gram on November 29, 2007, 09:40:49 PM
Tyler,
I remember what you are talking about Joe T and Rosemary being involved at least in some capacity from that Rizzio or whatever his name was, think he may have died since then?  Or one of the did but that was the time false evidence was being found all over the island like the duct tape, etc.

But you may be right about that being the time they became involved and I think that Rizzio was supposedly hired by Paulus who has no such money.  Always thought it was by Posner but cannot substantiate that.  Anyway, I think it is old mob connections from Posner's olden days.  He is why they were all there so very early.

Just my opinion only.

.
I think you have the name correct, also I seem to recall him being dead. Why is there so much money involved here in lawyers, etc ? Nobody has anything but regular jobs.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 09:42:27 PM
Tyler,
I remember what you are talking about Joe T and Rosemary being involved at least in some capacity from that Rizzio or whatever his name was, think he may have died since then?  Or one of the did but that was the time false evidence was being found all over the island like the duct tape, etc.

But you may be right about that being the time they became involved and I think that Rizzio was supposedly hired by Paulus who has no such money.  Always thought it was by Posner but cannot substantiate that.  Anyway, I think it is old mob connections from Posner's olden days.  He is why they were all there so very early.

Just my opinion only.

.

Rizzo...Frank, I think....Philadelphia

Yeah, him.  Real early in all this.

And 2NJ, don't be offended when people pick on Italians!  Think what they have said about the Dutch and I just carry on, LOL.  I get mad at them, too, the Dutch, much of the time.  They know better and sometimes I can tell when they are just punking us but can't prove it so just let it slide.  Makes me mad when they do that but I can pick up on it sometimes.  We are not seeing good examples of either Italians or the Dutch.  Except maybe Mos.  I like him.  And deVries.  The rest seem to really suck and are not typical I am sure.

But Frank Rizzio went to Aruba to help very early, Paulus supposedly and he is connected to Posner some how in the mob hierarchy.  Maybe I should not say that?  On my third hard drive already.

.

One is an ex-pat, former mayor or something of Philadelphia, (maybe) and the other (maybe a brother) was a detective in Chicago, FOP, who recently died.  But if I recall from the Impeachment Hearings, they were bro's.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 29, 2007, 09:43:00 PM
Klaas ... would please change the yellow highlite in my quote to red.

Thanks

Janet

Thanks Klaas.

Now if you give me the option of editing my own posts ....

I promise not to tell the other Monkeys.

Janet

 :lol:  Actually when I saw it, I changed it from yellow to orange.  Then you requested red and CBB fixed it before I could to red.

I doubt the "edit button" will return.  Too much bad history at SM with the edit button.  I don't mind fixing things  :wink:

Klaas ... you had changed the yellow highlight to orange while I was posting my request.  As usual ... you are on top of everything that goes on in the Monkey cage.   :wink:

Thanks again.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 29, 2007, 09:43:19 PM
Tyler,
I remember what you are talking about Joe T and Rosemary being involved at least in some capacity from that Rizzio or whatever his name was, think he may have died since then?  Or one of the did but that was the time false evidence was being found all over the island like the duct tape, etc.

But you may be right about that being the time they became involved and I think that Rizzio was supposedly hired by Paulus who has no such money.  Always thought it was by Posner but cannot substantiate that.  Anyway, I think it is old mob connections from Posner's olden days.  He is why they were all there so very early.

Just my opinion only.

.

Rizzo...Frank, I think....Philadelphia

Yeah, him.  Real early in all this.

And 2NJ, don't be offended when people pick on Italians!  Think what they have said about the Dutch and I just carry on, LOL.  I get mad at them, too, the Dutch, much of the time.  They know better and sometimes I can tell when they are just punking us but can't prove it so just let it slide.  Makes me mad when they do that but I can pick up on it sometimes.  We are not seeing good examples of either Italians or the Dutch.  Except maybe Mos.  I like him.  And deVries.  The rest seem to really suck and are not typical I am sure.

But Frank Rizzio went to Aruba to help very early, Paulus supposedly and he is connected to Posner some how in the mob hierarchy.  Maybe I should not say that?  On my third hard drive already.

.

Next, Rita hosted two City Councilmen from Philadelphia:

Juan Ramos and Frank Rizzo, Jr. Juan Ramos supported the boycott, because they felt sympathy with the family who has lost a daughter. Ramos went over similar losses of daughters around Philadelphia.

Frank Rizzo, Jr., criticized the boycott, because he was familiar with the effort in Aruba. He claimed that the Arubans have gone way beyond their requirement to support the family and this investigation. Interestingly, Rita tried to discredit Frank Rizzo's statement by alleging that he has a vested interest in Aruba. Rizzo had trained some of the Aruban law enforcement officers a few years ago. Also, Rizzo has concern for his constituents, many of whom work for an airline that brings Philadelphia's to Aruba. Rita attempted to enlist Ramos' assistance in her discreditation, but Ramos refused to get involved. Ramos respected his colleague's opinion.


http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/11/harrytho_aruban_2.php

*******

I remember Rizzo early in the case....and I don't think reminding people to think about what they are saying is a bad thing.  I know, first hand, that I have made comments in writing that were meant one way but perceived by others to be something else. 









Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 09:44:46 PM


Rizzo...Frank, I think....Philadelphia

I thought he was from chicago and his name was ernie rizzo??. Was a bit of a legend from chi-town and sometimes appeared on TV as a commentater?? I always thought it was Posner's PI as well. When Posner spoke about it he said he hired Investigators as in more than one. I read up on what I could about this guy as he was old school and had a great rep. He bragged about his ability to look up cell phones numbers and impersonate people.

I don't remember what his first name was but that's the one instead of Frank.  Yes, Chicago Mob, and I think this is when Joe T and Rosemary became involved but just because of the connections.

But you are correct, it is the Chicago one not the one from Philly as I think he is a politician. 

Why is he a legend?

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 09:45:42 PM
Oh, yeah, and we live with the Dutch and the British were the worst colonizers on earth day in and day out, those horrible Jews and nasty French people.  It's okay to say it about me and DH, but don't say it about my young'ins.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 09:46:51 PM
Tyler,
I remember what you are talking about Joe T and Rosemary being involved at least in some capacity from that Rizzio or whatever his name was, think he may have died since then?  Or one of the did but that was the time false evidence was being found all over the island like the duct tape, etc.

But you may be right about that being the time they became involved and I think that Rizzio was supposedly hired by Paulus who has no such money.  Always thought it was by Posner but cannot substantiate that.  Anyway, I think it is old mob connections from Posner's olden days.  He is why they were all there so very early.

Just my opinion only.

.
I think you have the name correct, also I seem to recall him being dead. Why is there so much money involved here in lawyers, etc ? Nobody has anything but regular jobs.

The unspeakable money from unspeakable sources.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Observer on November 29, 2007, 09:49:18 PM
Yes the Rizzo that worked for the Van Der Sloots was from chicago and his name was Ernie Rizzo. We all speculated back in 2005 that he was working for Posner. He was a bit of a legend as he had clients like Micheal Jackson and appeared on TV and was as old school as you could get with many years in the business.  TJ Ward claimed someone impersonated him while in Aruba and it was no coincidence this guy was in Aruba at the same time. He passed away in Oct 2006. You can probably still see the posts about him in the Archives at RWV from july and august 05.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 09:50:10 PM
Now I am confused.  Where is Tyler?  She would know what I am talking about. 

Some Rizzio was hired as a PI I think for Paulus.  He plays real dirty according to rep.  And that's when I think the lawyer came on board, was like a team.  Rizzio and Joe T.

Not that any of this matters one bit, really, at all in the big picture but I was just agreeing with Tyler that whenever this Rizzio came on, the PI one, then so did Taco.

But means nothing really, just thinking out loud about connections.

Now I do wonder if the other Rizzio who opposed the boycott got Joe Mañana.  More of those connections.
.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 09:52:59 PM
Other than the Holiday Inn fabrication ... I believe that each of Joran's accounts regarding how he got home that fateful morning as well as the insertion of the missing shoes has everything to do with implicating Deepak/Satish as being the last person/s alone with Natalee Holloway.  If Deepak or Satish admitted to picking up Joran at the beach they would be furthering Joran's agenda of implicating them in what happened to Natalee Holloway.  However ... if they maintain that they only dropped Natalee and Joran off at the Marriot Beach ... then they are implicating Joran as the last person with Natalee.

In my opinion, when you consider the gardener's observation at 2:30 AM on the morning that Natalee disappearance ... Joran, Deepak and Satish are all lying.  Joran, Deepak and (?) were together at 2:30 PM sitting in Deepaks parked vehicle across the street from the Marriot Beach and ... no Natalee.   

Janet

+++++++++++++++++


1.  "I WALKED HOME".

Joran is implying that Deepak/Satish returned to beach after he  contacted Deepak and stated he was in the process of walking home after leaving Natalee at the beach sleeping.


2.  "DEEPAK AND SATISH DROPPED ME OFF AT HOME AND LEFT WITH NATALEE".

Joran is implying that Deepak and Satish were the last persons observed with the missing 18 year old American citizen.


3.  "DEEPAK PICKED ME UP AT THE BEACH AND THEN RETURNED TO LOOK FOR MY SHOES."

Joran is implying that Deepak could have encountered Natalee Holloway at the Marriot Beach where she had been left alone a short time previous


4.  "SATISH PICKED ME UP AT THE BEACH AND THEN RETURNED TO LOOK FOR MY SHOES."

Joran is implying that Satish could have encountered Natalee Holloway at the Marriot Beach where she had been left alone a short time previous.
_______________________


Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
July 26, 2005


MANSUR: Because they were trying to hide their faces at that the hour, because we have to remember that the two Kalpoe brothers and Joran held on to the statement that they dropped Joran off at the beach and then went home. But here we have someone that says categorically that they did not go home, they were in the car with Joran. Joran was sitting in the driver`s seat.


Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
August 17, 2005


JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, "DIARIO": I don`t know what`s happening, but the gardener, the witness, did stand by his story. He did confirm in front of the judge, in front of the defense attorneys, in front of the suspects, that he recognized, and he even recognized two of the three suspects that were there. He hasn`t changed his story one bit


Beth Twitty
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
February 23, 2006


BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ... Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.

I'm running out of accolades for Tamik's posts!
You know, for the first time since the beginning of this case, it just occurred to me with the above post, that maybe Joran has so obviously showcased his missing shoes for the very reason of implicating the Kalpoes. If Joran asserts that a Kalpoe went back to look for them, Joran could pass the status of being the last with Natalee, to them. After the initial search there was mention of missing shoes/shoe at joran's house and maybe Vander Stratten was going along with it to help keep the options open for Joren to pass the buck.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Observer on November 29, 2007, 09:54:13 PM
Frank Rizzo is a councilman from Philadelphia.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Scandi on November 29, 2007, 09:54:23 PM
Mos was fishing months ago

he has 3 on the hook

Mos might be investigating the conversations that were BUGGED as soon as the
suspects knew they were being arrested

after they hauled joran off, they might have been listening to the SLOOOOOOOT HOUSE of HORRORS
and the same for the K2 house

these little things take time  :cool:

Hi Robots, Nice to meet cha, and I do agree, but like you said in your first sentence, Mos was fishing months ago.  That would be bonus blurb, and Hey, nothin' wrong with that to show cause, but doubt they could use it in court, right?

Do you think there were bugs put in the Kalpoe house in the Spring of this year?  Isn't it amazing that the Kalpoe attnys didn't immediately check for bugs when the investigators left the Kalpoe house?  It was such a sudden search IMHO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 09:54:34 PM
Local news abc3340 led with Natalee Holloway story tonight...pretty much the same stuff we already know except the interview with Dave Holloway.  Mentioned the boat that left from Louisiana today and the new search that was planned.  Dave said the prosecutor told him a "couple weeks" ago that Natalee was no longer alive. 

Next question that Hammer has been asking for 2 years now...HOW DOES MOS KNOW SHE IS DEAD?

Someone told them...showed them...or they heard it from the wire taps. 

Dave/TES/KLPD/FBI/Prosecutor all working together.  They know Natalee is not alive.  Maybe they do have a pretty good idea where in the ocean she was put?


I believe they do, at least within a reasonable zone...otherwise it would be worse than finding a needle in a haystack. That is one huge pond out there, ya know.

Mos knows that Natalee is deceased and also knows more, obviously. I think he probably learned how she died and where her body is either from the phone taps, the house bugs, videos, etc. and I believe he was decent enough to share that information with either the FBI who informed Dave, or perhaps he even shared it with TES or Dave directly. I think Tim knows exactly where to look and I believe he will bring Natalee home at long last, and I believe we will have Mos to thank for that.


Gabby,

Thank you for that wonderfully lucid and rational post.  Makes me feel better just reading it and I do so hope you are right.  Yes, that would be logical to think.  Dave Holloway seemed to have hopes. 

Personally, I don't know how they find anything in the ocean but they do for I see it on TV, recovery, treasure, sunken ships all kinds of things are found all the time so let's be hopeful.

That would be the ultimate evidence Mos could have.

Anna



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 09:54:45 PM
Other than the Holiday Inn fabrication ... I believe that each of Joran's accounts regarding how he got home that fateful morning as well as the insertion of the missing shoes has everything to do with implicating Deepak/Satish as being the last person/s alone with Natalee Holloway.  If Deepak or Satish admitted to picking up Joran at the beach they would be furthering Joran's agenda of implicating them in what happened to Natalee Holloway.  However ... if they maintain that they only dropped Natalee and Joran off at the Marriot Beach ... then they are implicating Joran as the last person with Natalee.

In my opinion, when you consider the gardener's observation at 2:30 AM on the morning that Natalee disappearance ... Joran, Deepak and Satish are all lying.  Joran, Deepak and (?) were together at 2:30 PM sitting in Deepaks parked vehicle across the street from the Marriot Beach and ... no Natalee.   

Janet

+++++++++++++++++


1.  "I WALKED HOME".

Joran is implying that Deepak/Satish returned to beach after he  contacted Deepak and stated he was in the process of walking home after leaving Natalee at the beach sleeping.


2.  "DEEPAK AND SATISH DROPPED ME OFF AT HOME AND LEFT WITH NATALEE".

Joran is implying that Deepak and Satish were the last persons observed with the missing 18 year old American citizen.


3.  "DEEPAK PICKED ME UP AT THE BEACH AND THEN RETURNED TO LOOK FOR MY SHOES."

Joran is implying that Deepak could have encountered Natalee Holloway at the Marriot Beach where she had been left alone a short time previous


4.  "SATISH PICKED ME UP AT THE BEACH AND THEN RETURNED TO LOOK FOR MY SHOES."

Joran is implying that Satish could have encountered Natalee Holloway at the Marriot Beach where she had been left alone a short time previous.
_______________________


Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
July 26, 2005


MANSUR: Because they were trying to hide their faces at that the hour, because we have to remember that the two Kalpoe brothers and Joran held on to the statement that they dropped Joran off at the beach and then went home. But here we have someone that says categorically that they did not go home, they were in the car with Joran. Joran was sitting in the driver`s seat.


Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
August 17, 2005


JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, "DIARIO": I don`t know what`s happening, but the gardener, the witness, did stand by his story. He did confirm in front of the judge, in front of the defense attorneys, in front of the suspects, that he recognized, and he even recognized two of the three suspects that were there. He hasn`t changed his story one bit


Beth Twitty
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
February 23, 2006


BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ... Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.

I'm running out of accolades for Tamik's posts!
You know, for the first time since the beginning of this case, it just occurred to me with the above post, that maybe Joran has so obviously showcased his missing shoes for the very reason of implicating the Kalpoes. If Joran asserts that a Kalpoe went back to look for them, Joran could pass the status of being the last with Natalee, to them. After the initial search there was mention of missing shoes/shoe at joran's house and maybe Vander Stratten was going along with it to help keep the options open for Joren to pass the buck.

yep
he was screwing them from the get go


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 09:55:02 PM
Now I am confused.  Where is Tyler?  She would know what I am talking about. 

Some Rizzio was hired as a PI I think for Paulus.  He plays real dirty according to rep.  And that's when I think the lawyer came on board, was like a team.  Rizzio and Joe T.

Not that any of this matters one bit, really, at all in the big picture but I was just agreeing with Tyler that whenever this Rizzio came on, the PI one, then so did Taco.

But means nothing really, just thinking out loud about connections.

Now I do wonder if the other Rizzio who opposed the boycott got Joe Mañana.  More of those connections.
.

It was Ernie Rizzo:

(http://www.ernierizzo.com/images/rizzo_sm.jpg)

http://www.ernierizzo.com/contact.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 29, 2007, 09:55:02 PM
Prominent Chicago Private Eye Dies 
Ernie Rizzo: Chicago Crime-Fighter Dies 
Last Edited: Monday, 23 Oct 2006, 3:07 PM CDT 
Created: Monday, 23 Oct 2006, 1:05 PM CDT 

 
 
Chicago, IL.  --  Chicago has lost a prominent crime-fighter. Ernie Rizzo, a long time private eye from Chicago who worked cases all over the world, has died. Rizzo had been hospitalized in recent weeks with heart problems. Investigative reporter Larry Yellen has the latest

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=1258765&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

******

I'll probably be sorry I didn't tinysize the link.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 09:56:02 PM
In other words, Joran may have never had a missing pair of shoes at all, but the story of the missing shoes was in place just to implicate the Kalpoes and give Joran an option of placing them at the beach and last to have an opportunity to kill her.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: NCDan on November 29, 2007, 09:58:09 PM
Those of you who think this is just a show, whom do you think is behind the show and  for what purpose?

the same corrupt officials who bailed the sloots out in the beginning.  The purpose is to save their own ass, just as before.

But what would be the point in that? The Dutch team would have been more motivated to leave well enough alone by doing nothing. The Dutch team thought it was worthwhile to risk further economic damage for the purpose of providing justice, which would among other things  :batman:pay off in the long term. Or are you saying saying Mos is fighting the native corruption in the Antillies/Aruba? In that case I would put my bets on Mos winning the battle. :batman:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 10:01:45 PM
Oh, yeah, and we live with the Dutch and the British were the worst colonizers on earth day in and day out, those horrible Jews and nasty French people.  It's okay to say it about me and DH, but don't say it about my young'ins.

Give your DH a big kiss for me and tell him I am still his Internet Girlfriend.  We Dutchies have to stick together sometimes.  I miss his late night internet coffee, tell him for me.   :smt058



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 10:02:18 PM
In other words, Joran may have never had a missing pair of shoes at all, but the story of the missing shoes was in place just to implicate the Kalpoes and give Joran an option of placing them at the beach and last to have an opportunity to kill her.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/joranshoes.jpg)

Interviewer:  You left without your shoes. How do you... how do you explain that? 

Joran van der Sloot:  We walked onto the... on the beach in the beginning, and where we sat down there, then, I had taken off my shoes. And because, when you walk in, it was the exact same shoes that I'm wearing now. 

Interviewer:  Same kind? 

Joran van der Sloot:  Yes, exactly. 

Interviewer:  Or those aren't the shoes? 

Joran van der Sloot:  No, no. Those aren't the shoes... 

Interviewer:  Those are the same kind. 

Joran van der Sloot:  ... but those are the exact same kinds

Interviewer:  All right. 



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 29, 2007, 10:02:21 PM
In other words, Joran may have never had a missing pair of shoes at all, but the story of the missing shoes was in place just to implicate the Kalpoes and give Joran an option of placing them at the beach and last to have an opportunity to kill her.

That is what Tamikosmom speculates.   :lol:

Hi Anna.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 10:03:23 PM
Those of you who think this is just a show, whom do you think is behind the show and  for what purpose?

the same corrupt officials who bailed the sloots out in the beginning.  The purpose is to save their own ass, just as before.

But what would be the point in that? The Dutch team would have been more motivated to leave well enough alone by doing nothing. The Dutch team thought it was worthwhile to risk further economic damage for the purpose of providing justice, which would among other things  :batman:pay off in the long term. Or are you saying saying Mos is fighting the native corruption in the Antillies/Aruba? In that case I would put my bets on Mos winning the battle. :batman:

I agree, NCDan. I believe that Hans is above board. My prayer is that the other players will either have the integrity to be unbiased or enough fear of reprisal not to be!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Observer on November 29, 2007, 10:03:36 PM
Dan Riehl confirms that the Van Der Sloots hired Ernie Rizzo and spoke to him in a short phone call. Rizzo denied that Joran had a houseguest but dan says he may not know a lot. We had two pretty good sources on Rizzo at RWV and lots of talk about him at the end of Aug 05.



The PI is well-known - does work in Caribbean and some don't care for his reputation. It was reported on websleuths I think - Ernie Rizzo. Also did work for Henry Hyde. Based out of Chicago. He said he was not going to Aruba until early Sept. Not sure what that is about. Could be they want him if Joran is going to trial to do some of their ow invesitgating to gather evidence. This also might suggest the family thinks Joran will be charged, or held over again. Hard to justify a PI if Joran were to walk on Sept. 4.

Posted by: Dan | Sunday, August 21, 2005 at 09:59 AM


http://tinyurl.com/2ep8xk


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 10:04:56 PM
Oh, yeah, and we live with the Dutch and the British were the worst colonizers on earth day in and day out, those horrible Jews and nasty French people.  It's okay to say it about me and DH, but don't say it about my young'ins.

Give your DH a big kiss for me and tell him I am still his Internet Girlfriend.  We Dutchies have to stick together sometimes.  I miss his late night internet coffee, tell him for me.   :smt058



He will like that, Anna, as he often asks about you.  I just get busy and forget to tell you and he loves furry Santa's, too.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 10:05:55 PM
In other words, Joran may have never had a missing pair of shoes at all, but the story of the missing shoes was in place just to implicate the Kalpoes and give Joran an option of placing them at the beach and last to have an opportunity to kill her.

That is what Tamikosmom speculates.   :lol:

Hi Anna.

Janet

you are a good speculator

more crap that has been thrown into the mix to trap the K2 brothers

possibly


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 10:06:19 PM
In other words, Joran may have never had a missing pair of shoes at all, but the story of the missing shoes was in place just to implicate the Kalpoes and give Joran an option of placing them at the beach and last to have an opportunity to kill her.

Exactly!

That's what Robots and I were talking about with all that SHOE talk that everybody got so mad at us for.

We were trying to say that very thing.

And got told to go eat a bug, if I recall.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 29, 2007, 10:06:29 PM
Frank Rizzo is a councilman from Philadelphia.

Now resides in Aruba.  I was thinking it was mayor, but you are right although that was pretty close guessing. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 10:07:36 PM
In other words, Joran may have never had a missing pair of shoes at all, but the story of the missing shoes was in place just to implicate the Kalpoes and give Joran an option of placing them at the beach and last to have an opportunity to kill her.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/joranshoes.jpg)

Interviewer:  You left without your shoes. How do you... how do you explain that? 

Joran van der Sloot:  We walked onto the... on the beach in the beginning, and where we sat down there, then, I had taken off my shoes. And because, when you walk in, it was the exact same shoes that I'm wearing now. 

Interviewer:  Same kind? 

Joran van der Sloot:  Yes, exactly. 

Interviewer:  Or those aren't the shoes? 

Joran van der Sloot:  No, no. Those aren't the shoes... 

Interviewer:  Those are the same kind. 

Joran van der Sloot:  ... but those are the exact same kinds

Interviewer:  All right. 



Klaas, that excerpt is freaky. Thanks for posting it. I'm with Tamik, I strongly speculate there is no missing shoe/shoes. How about you?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 10:09:08 PM
In other words, Joran may have never had a missing pair of shoes at all, but the story of the missing shoes was in place just to implicate the Kalpoes and give Joran an option of placing them at the beach and last to have an opportunity to kill her.

Exactly!

That's what Robots and I were talking about with all that SHOE talk that everybody got so mad at us for.

We were trying to say that very thing.

And got told to go eat a bug, if I recall.

.

I'm having chocolate covered grasshoppers. Care to join me?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: adoronron on November 29, 2007, 10:10:16 PM
In other words, Joran may have never had a missing pair of shoes at all, but the story of the missing shoes was in place just to implicate the Kalpoes and give Joran an option of placing them at the beach and last to have an opportunity to kill her.

Exactly!

That's what Robots and I were talking about with all that SHOE talk that everybody got so mad at us for.

We were trying to say that very thing.

And got told to go eat a bug, if I recall.

.

Anna

I remember all that. :cool:

Ado


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 10:10:19 PM
Robots,
I pray that is not how Joran makes his money about the girls and making creeps pay him.

That is something that never once entered my mind and I hope did not his for I do think he would be capable of such a thing.

Not gonna think about that, too ugly.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 10:11:02 PM
In other words, Joran may have never had a missing pair of shoes at all, but the story of the missing shoes was in place just to implicate the Kalpoes and give Joran an option of placing them at the beach and last to have an opportunity to kill her.

Exactly!

That's what Robots and I were talking about with all that SHOE talk that everybody got so mad at us for.

We were trying to say that very thing.

And got told to go eat a bug, if I recall.

.

yea, we went down that road and i ate the bugs

so you wouldnt have to

course, i like spiders.... so im ok with it  :lol: :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 10:13:16 PM
In other words, Joran may have never had a missing pair of shoes at all, but the story of the missing shoes was in place just to implicate the Kalpoes and give Joran an option of placing them at the beach and last to have an opportunity to kill her.

Exactly!

That's what Robots and I were talking about with all that SHOE talk that everybody got so mad at us for.

We were trying to say that very thing.

And got told to go eat a bug, if I recall.

.

Anna

I remember all that. :cool:

Ado


Yes, other posters were really nasty about it and told us to basically not talk about the shoes any more.

AND I REMEMBER YOUR THEORY THAT JORAN STOLE A PAIR OF SIZE 14 from the Racquet club.  That makes so much sense to me since the Dutch interrogator proved Joran wore a 10.5 per Jossy.

He planted those so to prove he was somewhere he wasn't and to get the Kalpoes to go get them making them the last ones with Natalee on the supposed beach, etc.

Hope I am not ordered to eat any bugs for saying this again.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 10:14:02 PM
Robots,
I pray that is not how Joran makes his money about the girls and making creeps pay him.

That is something that never once entered my mind and I hope did not his for I do think he would be capable of such a thing.

Not gonna think about that, too ugly.

.

i agree, i was hesitant to even post it BUT

look at his past
kills dogs
rapes and drugs people
beats others up
throws them off bridges
lies like there is no tomorrow
he was spending money like a drunken sailor - NO OFFENSE to sailors
he could get it from stealing and pimping
thus the name - PIMP
didnt he call himself that


well. there ya go

sometimes we dont have to dig as far as we think we have to



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 10:15:11 PM
In other words, Joran may have never had a missing pair of shoes at all, but the story of the missing shoes was in place just to implicate the Kalpoes and give Joran an option of placing them at the beach and last to have an opportunity to kill her.

Exactly!

That's what Robots and I were talking about with all that SHOE talk that everybody got so mad at us for.

We were trying to say that very thing.

And got told to go eat a bug, if I recall.

.

yea, we went down that road and i ate the bugs

so you wouldn't have to

course, i like spiders.... so im ok with it  :lol: :cool:

Yes, you have always been my hero, robots!  Defender of women and one who likes them and not hates them like PIMPS.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 29, 2007, 10:15:48 PM
In other words, Joran may have never had a missing pair of shoes at all, but the story of the missing shoes was in place just to implicate the Kalpoes and give Joran an option of placing them at the beach and last to have an opportunity to kill her.

Exactly!

That's what Robots and I were talking about with all that SHOE talk that everybody got so mad at us for.

We were trying to say that very thing.

And got told to go eat a bug, if I recall.

.

I'm having chocolate covered grasshoppers. Care to join me?

cbb

I will never forget.  When I was a kid ... my Grandfather came back from his travels from somewhere and ... presented my brothers and me with a package of chocolate ... chocolate with crispy insides  that was thoroughly enjoyed and appreciated.  You guessed it ... chocolate covered grasshoppers.  I loved my Grandfather dearly ... lots of great memories but ...

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 10:17:08 PM
Ado,

What is your take on Mos and the rearrests?  You have not posted much but I always found your posts fascinating and wished you would say more.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Observer on November 29, 2007, 10:17:51 PM
Frank Rizzo is a councilman from Philadelphia.

Now resides in Aruba.  I was thinking it was mayor, but you are right although that was pretty close guessing. 

Yes you were close  :D and Frank Rizzo also was quoted in some of his comments about Aruba. I thought hiring Ernie Rizzo out of chicago was very interesting back then and I still do. Wouldn't suprise me one bit if Posner and PVDS were friends. This PI out of Chicago,Law Firm(Tacopina)out of NY and the Law firm out of Chicago suing for 800 Million are all very suspicious hirings. Even more suspicious is who is paying for these very expensive services.

http://tinyurl.com/2ep8xk




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 10:18:08 PM
In other words, Joran may have never had a missing pair of shoes at all, but the story of the missing shoes was in place just to implicate the Kalpoes and give Joran an option of placing them at the beach and last to have an opportunity to kill her.

Exactly!

That's what Robots and I were talking about with all that SHOE talk that everybody got so mad at us for.

We were trying to say that very thing.

And got told to go eat a bug, if I recall.

.

yea, we went down that road and i ate the bugs

so you wouldn't have to

course, i like spiders.... so im ok with it  :lol: :cool:

Yes, you have always been my hero, robots!  Defender of women and one who likes them and not hates them like PIMPS.

.

thank you for the the kind words, i guess was fortunate to have a great mother
kind, strict and very loving

but tough as nails

 :lol: :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 10:18:58 PM
 :lol: :lol: Your Grandfather had a sense of humor, Tamik!~  :D


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 10:21:59 PM
Frank Rizzo is a councilman from Philadelphia.

Now resides in Aruba.  I was thinking it was mayor, but you are right although that was pretty close guessing. 

Yes you were close  :D and Frank Rizzo also was quoted in some of his comments about Aruba. I thought hiring Ernie Rizzo out of chicago was very interesting back then and I still do. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if Posner and PVDS were friends. This PI out of Chicago,Law Firm(Tacopina)out of NY and the Law firm out of Chicago suing for 800 Million are all very suspicious hirings. Even more suspicious is who is paying for these very expensive services.

http://tinyurl.com/2ep8xk





The original article that accompanied the ABC news video that some think is Paulus in the casino (I can't tell if it is or not but think it might be, doesn't matter he was there and likely oogling the girls whether on vid or not)but anyway that article said Posner was a friend of the family of the Sloots.

Then POOF, that sentence was REMOVED from the article.

Strangest things just vanish like that but I read it with my own eyes and am sure others posting here did as well.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 10:23:52 PM
That's exactly why I think the shoes are important.  Joran made way too big a deal out of the shoes on Greta.  Either those were exactly the shoes he was wearing or he wanted us to believe it. 

I agree, the whole shoe thing may have been a ruse to pin it on the Kalpoes.  That's why the shoes ARE important.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 10:27:51 PM
Natalee Case next on Greta

Klaas.............yes, Joran knew the shoes were important, just maybe for a different reason than I thought.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 10:29:08 PM
If Greta has Joe T on again I am going to hurl!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 10:30:07 PM
Freddy's on board with this whole thing. Remeber the transcript with him offering to buy Joran new shoes?

Deepak told Joran, "Freddy needs to tell the truth"

Freddy's backing up Joran.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Blue Moon on November 29, 2007, 10:31:06 PM
Joran has not let anything stop his love of gambling.
http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/joran_sloot   
One of his nicknames is angryshark 68

Here is a new cute mug shot  http://joranvandersloot.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!9E74C66583487C84!780/
(Dont know how to post pictures)

Thanks..Looks like he he was on cloud 9 with his biggest win ever on 11/20/07. He won $4,776 on a $33 tourney. The next day he wasnt so lucky  :D


For real???

I can't believe a jobless college freshman can play in that kind of stakes.

But I don't think Joran sells drugs because he is too lazy.  He would have to really hustle in either Aruba or Netherlands, too much competition and he is just not going to work that hard to make any amount of money to support all this.

I don't know where he gets his money but might be money laundering for the casino owners or something like that but Joran is not one to work hard enough to make money selling drugs in my opinion only.

.

He was not playing cheap tournaments either. I saw that he played up to $133 a game and judging by his wins he played a great deal. Especially in the last month.


Remember, he has money from his BOOK sales :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 10:32:47 PM
Freddy's on board with this whole thing. Remember the transcript with him offering to buy Joran new shoes?

Deepak told Joran, "Freddy needs to tell the truth"

Freddy's backing up Joran.

Anna, you know he will be. Tacky's like roaches. He mutates to accommodate repellants, and you just can't get rid of them!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Observer on November 29, 2007, 10:33:18 PM
Frank Rizzo is a councilman from Philadelphia.

Now resides in Aruba.  I was thinking it was mayor, but you are right although that was pretty close guessing. 

Yes you were close  :D and Frank Rizzo also was quoted in some of his comments about Aruba. I thought hiring Ernie Rizzo out of chicago was very interesting back then and I still do. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if Posner and PVDS were friends. This PI out of Chicago,Law Firm(Tacopina)out of NY and the Law firm out of Chicago suing for 800 Million are all very suspicious hirings. Even more suspicious is who is paying for these very expensive services.

http://tinyurl.com/2ep8xk





The original article that accompanied the ABC news video that some think is Paulus in the casino (I can't tell if it is or not but think it might be, doesn't matter he was there and likely oogling the girls whether on vid or not)but anyway that article said Posner was a friend of the family of the Sloots.

Then POOF, that sentence was REMOVED from the article.

Strangest things just vanish like that but I read it with my own eyes and am sure others posting here did as well.

.

 :shock: That is strange..Is Posner just advising his Aruban friends on what Criminal Defense Lawyers and PI'S to hire or is he paying for them himself? Posner  said he hired Investigators in this case..I'm assuming that was not Rizzo but someone else? That would be solid proof if they linked Posner to Rizzo because we know for a fact he worked for the Van Der Sloots.

Why is this money trail so hard to follow? Someone is spending Millions!!!! Certainly can't be the sloots or the kalpoes.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 10:36:57 PM
Ado had a theory that Joran picked up a pair of shoes like his but wrong size, right brand.  On his little walk from the racquet club the next night, he may have planted them to prove he was at the FH when in fact he may not have been at all and also to say he sent the Kalpoes back to retrieve his shoes.

Unfortunately for the sporter, they vanished.  Somebody may have stolen them or he may not have left shoes at all as someone I think Janet just posted.

But the thought was to prove he was at FH and that Kalpoes went back to get shoes.

Freddie buying his a new pair is a load as Robots would say and just something to draw attention to the faked alibi.

Even stupid Deepak said shoes to somebody at the HI the night Beth arrived.  Then he pretended to try to take it back.  At that point in time why did Deepak say shoes already if the story was HI.  Did he know the FH story already?

That is another thing that is totally out of sequence of events but if you check the PVs you will see Deepak mentioning Joran losing his shoes already.  He should not have been saying shoes for this was still the HI version of events.  They had been plotting.  This is because they were talking about how could leave shoes somewhere for alibi to prove you were there.  Even if you weren't.

MO

Speculation only

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 29, 2007, 10:40:12 PM
Frank Rizzo is a councilman from Philadelphia.

Now resides in Aruba.  I was thinking it was mayor, but you are right although that was pretty close guessing. 

Yes you were close  :D and Frank Rizzo also was quoted in some of his comments about Aruba. I thought hiring Ernie Rizzo out of chicago was very interesting back then and I still do. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if Posner and PVDS were friends. This PI out of Chicago,Law Firm(Tacopina)out of NY and the Law firm out of Chicago suing for 800 Million are all very suspicious hirings. Even more suspicious is who is paying for these very expensive services.

http://tinyurl.com/2ep8xk





The original article that accompanied the ABC news video that some think is Paulus in the casino (I can't tell if it is or not but think it might be, doesn't matter he was there and likely oogling the girls whether on vid or not)but anyway that article said Posner was a friend of the family of the Sloots.

Then POOF, that sentence was REMOVED from the article.

Strangest things just vanish like that but I read it with my own eyes and am sure others posting here did as well.

.

 :shock: That is strange..Is Posner just advising his Aruban friends on what Criminal Defense Lawyers and PI'S to hire or is he paying for them himself? Posner  said he hired Investigators in this case..I'm assuming that was not Rizzo but someone else? That would be solid proof if they linked Posner to Rizzo because we know for a fact he worked for the Van Der Sloots.

Why is this money trail so hard to follow? Someone is spending Millions!!!! Certainly can't be the sloots or the kalpoes.

I know Joe Mammana (sp?) is no saint, but when he was offering the $ he did plead with Posner to do the right thing...or something like that...What was that all about?  uh huh....mmmmm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 10:41:27 PM
*******, I have always seen Rizzio, the detective not the politician, as the thing that connects the Sloots to Posner.  I thought Rizzio was hired by Paulus but he is connected supposedly to Posner via their commonality in the Chicago Outfit.


I think Posner was paying Rizzio or he was owed a favor by him. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 10:42:39 PM
Frank Rizzo is a councilman from Philadelphia.

Now resides in Aruba.  I was thinking it was mayor, but you are right although that was pretty close guessing. 

Yes you were close  :D and Frank Rizzo also was quoted in some of his comments about Aruba. I thought hiring Ernie Rizzo out of chicago was very interesting back then and I still do. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if Posner and PVDS were friends. This PI out of Chicago,Law Firm(Tacopina)out of NY and the Law firm out of Chicago suing for 800 Million are all very suspicious hirings. Even more suspicious is who is paying for these very expensive services.

http://tinyurl.com/2ep8xk





The original article that accompanied the ABC news video that some think is Paulus in the casino (I can't tell if it is or not but think it might be, doesn't matter he was there and likely oogling the girls whether on vid or not)but anyway that article said Posner was a friend of the family of the Sloots.

Then POOF, that sentence was REMOVED from the article.

Strangest things just vanish like that but I read it with my own eyes and am sure others posting here did as well.

.

 :shock: That is strange..Is Posner just advising his Aruban friends on what Criminal Defense Lawyers and PI'S to hire or is he paying for them himself? Posner  said he hired Investigators in this case..I'm assuming that was not Rizzo but someone else? That would be solid proof if they linked Posner to Rizzo because we know for a fact he worked for the Van Der Sloots.

Why is this money trail so hard to follow? Someone is spending Millions!!!! Certainly can't be the sloots or the kalpoes.

I know Joe Mammana (sp?) is no saint, but when he was offering the $ he did plead with Posner to do the right thing...or something like that...What was that all about?  uh huh....mmmmm

I remember that 2NJSons.  He said something like Mike Posner we are cut from the same cloth and you can put and end to this.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 10:43:57 PM
2NJ, you don't suppose the Rizzio politician was behind taking Joe M down do you, lol.  I just assumed he was because he was furious about the boycott and apparently had $ invested in Aruba if he now lives there, etc.

Now I will get another hard drive fried, lol!

/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 29, 2007, 10:50:27 PM
San, you are probably closer to his statement, but I know he called him out.

Anna, who knows if Frank Rizzo had anything to do with the search of Mamana's home....I doubt Frank put the gun on the nightstand, but it certainly is a possibility that I cannot prove either way. 

If this hard drive fries, I'll be in rehab with D T's.  :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Observer on November 29, 2007, 10:53:29 PM
*******, I have always seen Rizzio, the detective not the politician, as the thing that connects the Sloots to Posner.  I thought Rizzio was hired by Paulus but he is connected supposedly to Posner via their commonality in the Chicago Outfit.


I think Posner was paying Rizzio or he was owed a favor by him. 

I totally agree as Rizzo goes back many many years in Chicago and they both claimed to hire PI'S in the same time period. I feel the same about Tacopina also. I watched taco closely this week when he mentioned his firm is involved with whats happening in Aruba and working a advisory role. I almost get the feeling that whoever hired him doesnt trust the Legal team in Aruba and wants him supervising so the sloots don't go down. I really see no proof that Posner is involved in anything but this is all way too suspicious.

Could be all BS by Tacopina..But why the heck is he even involved?? Who's interests is he really protecting besides the Van Der Sloots? Just seems highly unlikely Paul Van Der Sloot would hire Joe Tacopina and even less likely he could afford him.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 29, 2007, 10:54:18 PM
Natalee's case is going to get either the last or next to last few minutes on Greta's show tonight.  Scott Peterson is also going to be squeezed into the final few minutes.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 29, 2007, 10:56:58 PM
No man has a good enough memory to make a successful liar.
Abraham Lincoln

Abraham Lincoln's quote is especially applicable to Joran van der Sloot.  On June 14, 2005 in his suspect statement ... he conveys two different accounts in regard to Deepak picking up his shoes from the beach.  It is so obvious that Joran is attempting to implicate Deepak when the inconsistencies in his statement pertaining to his shoes is considered.  The truth would imply that there would be one account.

Janet

++++++++++++++++++++++


Joran Van der Sloot
Suspect Statement - June 14, 2005


I told Deepak that I left my shoes at the Marriot Hotel.  Deepak told me not to worry that he would go back the next day and pick them up for me.  I had left a pair of white and blue shoes of the make "K-Swiss", size "14" on the beach. These shoes I bought in the USA.


Joran Van der Sloot
Suspect Statement - June 14, 2005


I was dropped off at my house by Deepak on May 30th 2005 at approximately 03.45. When I was getting out I asked him if he would go "on-line" again. Deepak answered me that he would. I also told him that I would call him tomorrow.  I had asked Deepak if he could pick up the shoes I left behind at the beach. Deepak told me that he would immediately go and get them.  Then Deepak drove off.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 11:01:16 PM
From Greta:

Lawyers for Joran and Kalpoes were all in court today.

Two important motions on behalf of the suspects.

Joran now has the bible he requested.

The Kalpoes could be set free as early as tomorrow.

Joran's lawyer said outside the court this new incriminating evidence is no slam dunk at all.

They said the evidence deals with a lot of the old interrogations and evesdropping.  Basically a language problem.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 11:04:27 PM
From Greta:

Lawyers for Joran and Kalpoes were all in court today.

Two important motions on behalf of the suspects.

Joran now has the bible he requested.

The Kalpoes could be set free as early as tomorrow.

Joran's lawyer said outside the court this new incriminating evidence is no slam dunk at all.

They said the evidence deals with a lot of the old interrogations and evesdropping.  Basically a language problem.

Thanks San - so nothing new from earlier today.  We won't know anything until tomorrow afternoon most likely.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 29, 2007, 11:05:05 PM
 :) Janet, 'next day' then 'immediately'....very perseptive.

Natalee's case got the last minute of Greta's show.  The reporter (surfer guy..sad I can't remember his name a few minutes later after a week)...called it a cold case in his closing....with Greta in DC....just wondering what info is being swapped behind the scenes between Joe T & the likes....skeptical...hope I'm being silly....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 29, 2007, 11:05:44 PM
From Greta:

Lawyers for Joran and Kalpoes were all in court today.

Two important motions on behalf of the suspects.

Joran now has the bible he requested.

The Kalpoes could be set free as early as tomorrow.

Joran's lawyer said outside the court this new incriminating evidence is no slam dunk at all.

They said the evidence deals with a lot of the old interrogations and evesdropping.  Basically a language problem.

Thanks San - so nothing new from earlier today.  We won't know anything until tomorrow afternoon most likely.

Right.  Basically a repeat of what was talked about today.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: adoronron on November 29, 2007, 11:06:07 PM
Ado,

What is your take on Mos and the rearrests?  You have not posted much but I always found your posts fascinating and wished you would say more.

.
Anna,

Well.......I agree for the most part with Robots.
MOS has em cornered and they're going to be in jail for much much longer than any eight days or sixty days.
MOS is not part of the Aruban system, he's part of the Dutch system and he seems the type that has career aspirations. He wouldn't take any risks at ruining his future by filing manslaughter charges he can't prove. He's got the goods on them. He wouldn't say he has proof she is deceased if he didn'thave the proof. On a side note, IMO I think MOS has some photographic or video evidence. We all know the pimps were involved in the porn business.
On the ocean search - Everybody can try to figure out how he and TES know exactly where to look but right now the fact is they know where to look. How they found out where to look may become public sometime down the road but it's too soon for MOS to disclose that information. Again, the fact is they know where to look, and that to me is a major breakthrough, and MOS isn't hinting how they found out. It's has to be driving those involved in the crime nuts.
Notice that JT is trying all he can to get some sort of response from MOS and....................nothing. He (MOS) is not going to respond now matter what JT claims.
If there is an information/evidence leak MOS and the 45 KLPD will find the source.
On arresting Paulus - It would not be a good idea to arrest Paulus this soon. In doing so you would have to disclose evidence to him and he might be able to start cover up activities in motion, or get word to J2K on the "new" story line to follow.
I see a lot of folks in here claiming the sky is falling because this hasn't happened yet, or that person should be arrested and isn't, or Satish's lawyer said it's just the same old stuff. Myself, I think within a month we'll know must of what happened.
I do hope TES has some sort of navy protective support out there. This is dangerous stuff.

ADO.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: mrs. red on November 29, 2007, 11:07:23 PM
In other words, Joran may have never had a missing pair of shoes at all, but the story of the missing shoes was in place just to implicate the Kalpoes and give Joran an option of placing them at the beach and last to have an opportunity to kill her.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/joranshoes.jpg)

Interviewer:  You left without your shoes. How do you... how do you explain that? 

Joran van der Sloot:  We walked onto the... on the beach in the beginning, and where we sat down there, then, I had taken off my shoes. And because, when you walk in, it was the exact same shoes that I'm wearing now. 

Interviewer:  Same kind? 

Joran van der Sloot:  Yes, exactly. 

Interviewer:  Or those aren't the shoes? 

Joran van der Sloot:  No, no. Those aren't the shoes... 

Interviewer:  Those are the same kind. 

Joran van der Sloot:  ... but those are the exact same kinds

Interviewer:  All right. 



Klaas, that excerpt is freaky. Thanks for posting it. I'm with Tamik, I strongly speculate there is no missing shoe/shoes. How about you?

HEy Hey Hey now... I have been saying since this interview that he was wearing the shoes... did I finally get proven correct?  That smirk said it all....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 11:12:21 PM
Ado,

Thank you so much for that positive response.  I needed that after listening to that surfer dude.  Saying the Kalpoes might be released.

Well, even if they are, Mos can STILL file charges and put them right back.

I don't believe any translation errors.  The Dutch have been watching the tape of all this and listening to the taps themselves and coming up with entirely different version of events.

But I don't want any Kalpoes released tomorrow.  I do hope Mos has them as you and Robots insist.  I THINK he does but as you say, we will know within the month.

Thanks again for your thoughts , was wondering what your take on all this might be.


.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 11:17:58 PM
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/29/aruba.holloway/index.html

November 29, 2007

Natalee Holloway's parents to meet with Aruban prosecutor
Story Highlights


By Susan Candiotti
CNN

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) -- The chief prosecutor in the Natalee Holloway investigation has agreed to meet Saturday with the parents of the missing Alabama teen, who is presumed dead.

"I'm really anxious to meet him," Beth Holloway told CNN. "I've waited a long time for this meeting."

A lawyer for Beth Holloway contacted prosecutor Hans Mos last week after suspects Joran van der Sloot and brothers Satish and Deepak Kalpoe were arrested on suspicion of manslaughter.

"There's no doubt in my mind that [Natalee Holloway] is dead. ... I think we have enough evidence to prove the girl is not alive anymore, even without a body," Mos said last week.

Natalee Holloway's mother said she has hope that Mos will be able to solve the case.

"He seems great. The case seems to be handled well. I'm going to ask him some long-awaited questions," she said.

The family is encouraged that the meeting will take place, Holloway attorney John Kelly told CNN. Two years ago, the previous chief prosecutor -- who has since returned to the Netherlands -- would not sit down with them.

Kelly said Beth Holloway and her ex-husband, Dave, want to share information they've gathered since their daughter disappeared in May 2005 while on vacation with about 100 classmates. See a timeline of the case »

Neither he nor Beth Holloway would provide details.

Questions about evidence

Lawyers for the three suspects were in court in Aruba on Thursday on behalf of their clients. They argued that last week's rearrests were baseless and that prosecutors have no new evidence against their clients. They said they have no idea what happened to Holloway.

As he rushed out of the closed hearing before a judge, van der Sloot's lawyer told CNN that authorities have no reason to hold van der Sloot in jail again as they did two years ago. He said the so-called new incriminating evidence is worthless.

"To say it's less than nothing is too much. But it's not very much. It's very, very thin," Ariean de Bie said.

Van der Sloot's parents were allowed to provide him with a Bible but no other reading materials, the lawyer said. Van der Sloot is forbidden from seeing any visitors and can meet only with his lawyers and interrogators.

De Bie said van der Sloot has not provided authorities with any new information since his rearrest and extradition from the Netherlands, where he'd been attending college. He said his client would rather be anywhere than in a prison cell.

"He's not very happy about it," the attorney said.

Van der Sloot's co-counsel -- New York attorney Joe Tacopina -- said he has no doubt his client is innocent.

"Whatever they're holding in their bag, whatever they don't want to show anyone ... it's not going to amount to a hill of beans against Joran van der Sloot because he had no involvement in Natalee's disappearance," Tacopina told CNN.

Tacopina said he'll be in Aruba next week and try to meet with van der Sloot in his jail cell.

Attorneys for the Kalpoe brothers will meet with a judge in separate jailhouse hearings Friday to argue that their clients should be set free and not held another eight days.

A judge will decide whether prosecutors can continue to hold the Kalpoes even longer.

Van der Sloot will have a similar hearing next Friday when prosecutors are expected to ask to keep him jailed another 60 days.

Mos has said he hopes to decide by the end of the year whether he will try all three suspects for Holloway's presumed death, which he suggests was an accident. The prosecutor won't say what his new evidence is until his investigation is complete. (note from me:  I think the reporter used their words and not MOS's words)

New search for remains

The Holloways still have not given up the search for their daughter. In fact, a benefactor is donating an estimated $500,000 to help map the waters offshore.

On Thursday, Natalee's father watched Louis Schaeffer's crew load a boat equipped with the latest sonar equipment and a remote operated vehicle (ROV) to search the waters where Holloway's remains might be.

"I've got a feeling that if she's in the ocean, these guys are gonna find her," Dave Holloway said. "No doubt about it." Watch an interview with Natalee Holloway's father »

Schaeffer said he's retired, has the money, and was touched by the Holloways' tragedy and wanted to help.

"My only objective is to find Natalee, to bring her home for Dave and Beth and also to help identify the people that did this to her. This is a terrible thing, an injustice, and I want to help solve the case," said Schaeffer.

"We've known since [May 2005], the FBI told us Natalee's not with us anymore," Dave Holloway said.

The boat is expected to take about 10 days to get to Aruba. It'll take a few more days to set up a search.

The family says it has no new information about where to look. The Holloways just want to exhaust every area they can offshore with equipment that wasn't available to them two years ago.

Thanks to Schaefer, that's changed.

"We are just so thankful that he's got a big heart and willing to do that," Dave Holloway said.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 11:19:11 PM
Mrs. Red - we are just thinking the whole shoe thing may have been Joran trying to pin the crime on the Kalpoes.  No proof of that though  :wink:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 11:21:28 PM
I remember you saying that Mrs. Red! It, apparently, was just an epiphany for me today!  :lol:

It finally clicked with me there was crucial motive for making up the story about loosing his shoes. He could place the Kalpoes as last with Natalee if he could say he sent them to pick up his shoes at the beach.

SORRY! I didn't realize everyone else was already on board with that! It was an original thought for me!  :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 29, 2007, 11:25:27 PM
Van derStratten and Paulus probably came up with it, and purposefully leaked that a shoe was missing after the search of Joran's apt. to substantiate Joran's assertion that a Kalpoe went back and may have killed her.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Port Valerie on November 29, 2007, 11:27:56 PM
From Greta:

Lawyers for Joran and Kalpoes were all in court today.

Two important motions on behalf of the suspects.

Joran now has the bible he requested.


The Kalpoes could be set free as early as tomorrow.

Joran's lawyer said outside the court this new incriminating evidence is no slam dunk at all.

They said the evidence deals with a lot of the old interrogations and evesdropping.  Basically a language problem.

Minor clarification:

The first motion today concerned Joran and resulted in his getting a Bible.

The second motion today concerned allowing the Kalpoes to have the same lawyer; it was heard but not decided today.

The Kalpoes could be set free tomorrow as part of a third action -- the decision to keep them, or not, for another eight days.







Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: mrs. red on November 29, 2007, 11:31:10 PM
I remember you saying that Mrs. Red! It, apparently, was just an epiphany for me today!  :lol:

It finally clicked with me there was crucial motive for making up the story about loosing his shoes. He could place the Kalpoes as last with Natalee if he could say he sent them to pick up his shoes at the beach.

SORRY! I didn't realize everyone else was already on board with that! It was an original thought for me!  :lol:

Well I remembered being told I was smoking crack basically, when I first said that.. and it's ok, didn't change my mind... in my opinion it was one of those weird details that joran put in the story for a reason, planted evidence against the K2 makes perfect sense, that is an ephinany for me... LOL... but he just had a look on his nasty face that said to me that he was charming Greta and thinking that he had fooled her the entire time he was sitting there...

and he made some comment to the effect that the missing shoes were "just like these" and I thought... yeah, because they were those...

anyway... it's one small thing I got right ... :lol: (and if I didn't, let me live in my bubble anyway)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 11:34:05 PM
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/29/aruba.holloway/index.html

November 29, 2007

Natalee Holloway's parents to meet with Aruban prosecutor
Story Highlights


By Susan Candiotti
CNN

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) -- The chief prosecutor in the Natalee Holloway investigation has agreed to meet Saturday with the parents of the missing Alabama teen, who is presumed dead.

"I'm really anxious to meet him," Beth Holloway told CNN. "I've waited a long time for this meeting."

A lawyer for Beth Holloway contacted prosecutor Hans Mos last week after suspects Joran van der Sloot and brothers Satish and Deepak Kalpoe were arrested on suspicion of manslaughter.

"There's no doubt in my mind that [Natalee Holloway] is dead. ... I think we have enough evidence to prove the girl is not alive anymore, even without a body," Mos said last week.

Natalee Holloway's mother said she has hope that Mos will be able to solve the case.

"He seems great. The case seems to be handled well. I'm going to ask him some long-awaited questions," she said.

The family is encouraged that the meeting will take place, Holloway attorney John Kelly told CNN. Two years ago, the previous chief prosecutor -- who has since returned to the Netherlands -- would not sit down with them.

Kelly said Beth Holloway and her ex-husband, Dave, want to share information they've gathered since their daughter disappeared in May 2005 while on vacation with about 100 classmates. See a timeline of the case »

Neither he nor Beth Holloway would provide details.

Questions about evidence

Lawyers for the three suspects were in court in Aruba on Thursday on behalf of their clients. They argued that last week's rearrests were baseless and that prosecutors have no new evidence against their clients. They said they have no idea what happened to Holloway.

As he rushed out of the closed hearing before a judge, van der Sloot's lawyer told CNN that authorities have no reason to hold van der Sloot in jail again as they did two years ago. He said the so-called new incriminating evidence is worthless.

"To say it's less than nothing is too much. But it's not very much. It's very, very thin," Ariean de Bie said.

Van der Sloot's parents were allowed to provide him with a Bible but no other reading materials, the lawyer said. Van der Sloot is forbidden from seeing any visitors and can meet only with his lawyers and interrogators.

De Bie said van der Sloot has not provided authorities with any new information since his rearrest and extradition from the Netherlands, where he'd been attending college. He said his client would rather be anywhere than in a prison cell.

"He's not very happy about it," the attorney said.

Van der Sloot's co-counsel -- New York attorney Joe Tacopina -- said he has no doubt his client is innocent.

"Whatever they're holding in their bag, whatever they don't want to show anyone ... it's not going to amount to a hill of beans against Joran van der Sloot because he had no involvement in Natalee's disappearance," Tacopina told CNN.

Tacopina said he'll be in Aruba next week and try to meet with van der Sloot in his jail cell.

Attorneys for the Kalpoe brothers will meet with a judge in separate jailhouse hearings Friday to argue that their clients should be set free and not held another eight days.

A judge will decide whether prosecutors can continue to hold the Kalpoes even longer.

Van der Sloot will have a similar hearing next Friday when prosecutors are expected to ask to keep him jailed another 60 days.

Mos has said he hopes to decide by the end of the year whether he will try all three suspects for Holloway's presumed death, which he suggests was an accident. The prosecutor won't say what his new evidence is until his investigation is complete. (note from me:  I think the reporter used their words and not MOS's words)

New search for remains

The Holloways still have not given up the search for their daughter. In fact, a benefactor is donating an estimated $500,000 to help map the waters offshore.

On Thursday, Natalee's father watched Louis Schaeffer's crew load a boat equipped with the latest sonar equipment and a remote operated vehicle (ROV) to search the waters where Holloway's remains might be.

"I've got a feeling that if she's in the ocean, these guys are gonna find her," Dave Holloway said. "No doubt about it." Watch an interview with Natalee Holloway's father »

Schaeffer said he's retired, has the money, and was touched by the Holloways' tragedy and wanted to help.

"My only objective is to find Natalee, to bring her home for Dave and Beth and also to help identify the people that did this to her. This is a terrible thing, an injustice, and I want to help solve the case," said Schaeffer.

"We've known since [May 2005], the FBI told us Natalee's not with us anymore," Dave Holloway said.

The boat is expected to take about 10 days to get to Aruba. It'll take a few more days to set up a search.

The family says it has no new information about where to look. The Holloways just want to exhaust every area they can offshore with equipment that wasn't available to them two years ago.

Thanks to Schaefer, that's changed.

"We are just so thankful that he's got a big heart and willing to do that," Dave Holloway said.




Don't shoot me for the stack quotes but I wanted this on this page so no one would miss it.

This is wonderful news!  This means everything we have sent to the families can be shared with Mos, not that he needs it or that there is anything he can use but it is good to know he will have it as we did a lot of work, research and thinking.

And the family will share any evidence they have that he does not and he will finally maybe answer their questions!  He is like a real prosecutor instead of an AHATA pawn.

Great news!  Thanks, Klaas.  You are always on top of everything.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 11:34:10 PM
look, here is the best part as to why i think Mos is on our side

the SEARCH with the BOAT going to aruba

he is not STOPPING it, he wants it done
and there aint a chance in hell they are going to go down there without having a real real real good idea as to where she is...

they heard something with the BUGS that were in the houses

BANK IT
BET IT ALL
BET EVERYTHING


K2 and joran are worried and skerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrred like you would not believe

anita and JOE T spewing all week about how there is nothing

BULL CRAP

 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: mrs. red on November 29, 2007, 11:37:15 PM
I agree Robots....

this is it...

I would bet but it's Christmas time and I am broke...  :sad:

but.... I agree with you...

good nite monkeys...

keep the faith!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Port Valerie on November 29, 2007, 11:37:20 PM
Is there anything significant in the fact that Beth and JQK are talking to CNN? Are they avoiding Fox? Can Greta only get Taco Joe and nobody else? There's a lot of negative spin coming from Fox. Should we be tracking CNN more? Just asking.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 11:38:25 PM
i still say PUKE boy was driving a vehicle that night

remember when k2 were talking about a flat tire and it was jorans idea according to K2 ( that whole story)

see, the excuse for joran having to drive that night was because his buddies broke down and joran had to go to the rescue to help them (like meathead would even know how to change a tire"

MORE BULL CRAP

i can see it
i can smell it

it stinks like paulus and joran


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 11:39:38 PM
I agree Robots....

this is it...

I would bet but it's Christmas time and I am broke...  :sad:

but.... I agree with you...

good nite monkeys...

keep the faith!

heating oil is bustin all of us up here..
i have been splitting wood for 4 years

i was told i was crazy - who is crazy now  :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 11:40:23 PM
Is there anything significant in the fact that Beth and JQK are talking to CNN? Are they avoiding Fox? Can Greta only get Taco Joe and nobody else? There's a lot of negative spin coming from Fox. Should we be tracking CNN more? Just asking.



greta sucks  :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 11:41:00 PM
I hope and pray they do find her at long last.  But I am afraid to get my hopes up too high because I can't imagine how they find anything in the ocean.  I know they do but it is all mysterious to me.

But for the first time I am hopeful in spite of myself trying to to expect too much to avoid disappointment if they don't find her.

Robots, I agree, they are doing this based on a TIP was what I think Tim first said.  They are not just going in blindly to search but going to a specific place.

Please let them be successful for the family first and for the investigation next.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 11:42:21 PM
I hope and pray they do find her at long last.  But I am afraid to get my hopes up too high because I can't imagine how they find anything in the ocean.  I know they do but it is all mysterious to me.

But for the first time I am hopeful in spite of myself trying to to expect too much to avoid disappointment if they don't find her.

Robots, I agree, they are doing this based on a TIP was what I think Tim first said.  They are not just going in blindly to search but going to a specific place.

Please let them be successful for the family first and for the investigation next.

.
i will eat my snowthrower if there is not a conviction in this case  :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 11:43:41 PM
I hope and pray they do find her at long last.  But I am afraid to get my hopes up too high because I can't imagine how they find anything in the ocean.  I know they do but it is all mysterious to me.

But for the first time I am hopeful in spite of myself trying to to expect too much to avoid disappointment if they don't find her.

Robots, I agree, they are doing this based on a TIP was what I think Tim first said.  They are not just going in blindly to search but going to a specific place.

Please let them be successful for the family first and for the investigation next.

.
yes, and what they heard will implicate k2 and joran  :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Puzzler on November 29, 2007, 11:43:46 PM
I agree with Robots.  I've had this thought in the back of my mind for some time now that the search, the timing of the search and the arrest of J2K, Dave, Dutch/Mos, FBI are all in this one together.

Strength in numbers  :P


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 11:44:46 PM
Is there anything significant in the fact that Beth and JQK are talking to CNN? Are they avoiding Fox? Can Greta only get Taco Joe and nobody else? There's a lot of negative spin coming from Fox. Should we be tracking CNN more? Just asking.



I don't think there's anything significant. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 11:45:18 PM
"robots, why do you have 12 cord of wood?


robots --- cause im going to need em  :D :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 11:45:23 PM
I agree Robots....

this is it...

I would bet but it's Christmas time and I am broke...  :sad:

but.... I agree with you...

good nite monkeys...

keep the faith!

heating oil is bustin all of us up here..
i have been splitting wood for 4 years

i was told i was crazy - who is crazy now  :lol:


Well, I hope you are right about this.  That would be a wonderful Christmas present for all and a source of comfort for this family to bring her home to Sweet Home Alabama where she belongs.

O/T We have the same thing here with propane being un affordable.  If it got really cold, would be very expensive.  Supplementing with space heaters which are dangerous.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 11:46:24 PM
I agree with Robots.  I've had this thought in the back of my mind for some time now that the search, the timing of the search and the arrest of J2K, Dave, Dutch/Mos, FBI are all in this one together.

Strength in numbers  :P

yep

no puzzle to figure out there..is there PUZZLER? :cool: :wink:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Puzzler on November 29, 2007, 11:46:35 PM
"robots, why do you have 12 cord of wood?


robots --- cause im going to need em  :D :cool:

That's a LOT of splittin'


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Observer on November 29, 2007, 11:47:07 PM
From here to Aruba
Thursday, November 29, 2007 12:37 PM CST
BY JEFF MOORE, THE DAILY IBERIAN

An expedition to search the waters off Aruba for the remains of missing Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway leaves today from the Port of Iberia.

The research vessel Persistence, owned by the Lafayette-based Silvetti Group, will make the 10-day journey to the island. A 20- to 25-man crew will spend at least two weeks surveying the sea floor for Holloway, who has been missing since May 30, 2005.

Holloway, 18, was last seen leaving a bar with three men hours before she was scheduled to fly home with high school classmates celebrating their graduation. Last week, police re-arrested the three men, prompting her father to re-launch the search in deep waters.

John Silvetti said his company became involved in the search after he was contacted by Louis Schaefer, chairman of Superior Offshore International. Schaefer had been approached by Texas Equusearch, a non-profit organization that has been searching for Holloway for more than two years.

Schaefer asked Silvetti if he could provide the survey personnel and the geophysical equipment required for the search. After spending a weekend with Schaefer and Pam and Dave Holloway, Silvetti agreed.

“It ripped my heart out to hear them say that right now all they’re looking for is to have a funeral in Alabama,” Silvetti said. “What do you say to someone like that?”

Silvetti agreed to provide his equipment and primary survey vessel at well below cost, with Schaefer covering all out-of-pocket expenses. Silvetti said his staff volunteered its services for the project as well.

“They said ‘You don’t even have to pay me. I just want to help,’” Silvetti said. “That just tells me we’ve got the right people on board.”

Marc Broussard, project manager for the Silvetti Group, said the company normally performs surveys looking for oil rigs and downed helicopters. Now, it will be using its high-resolution SONAR equipment to look for a body.

To upgrade its systems for the terrain in Aruba, Broussard said the Silvetti Group looked to its vendors, two of which are based in New Iberia.

Seatronics, located at the Port of Iberia, agreed to donate some of its high-tech electronic equipment to scan the ocean floor.

“I told (Silvetti) any opportunity that we had to go in on such a good cause, we would go in on it,” said Erik McGuire, vice president of Seatronics Inc.

“We’re more than happy to give the best effort possible to recover this girl for her family.”

Pro Log Inc. also stepped forth to provide a command center building where all of the surveying equipment will be stored. Like many people around the country, Pro Log Human Resources Director Heidi Parker said she has been following Holloway’s disappearance closely.

“We’re a family-owned business, so family is very important to us,” Parker said. “Anything we can do to help this family out is something that we’re going to do.”

After more than two years of searching, Texas Equusearch office manager Cheryl Lawless said she is hoping the organization’s fifth trip to Aruba will be its last. She said the venture would not be possible without the help of Schaefer, Silvetti and the other local companies.

“Nothing is being done to gain name recognition. This is to help these people,” Silvetti said. “Most of us have watched this on television, and I can only imagine the horror any parent would go through searching for their child in a foreign country.”

http://www.iberianet.com/articles/2007/11/29/news/news/news00.txt


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 11:47:22 PM
Still on my wish list....PVDS  :lol:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Sweatyrunningman-new2-1.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Port Valerie on November 29, 2007, 11:47:51 PM
Is there anything significant in the fact that Beth and JQK are talking to CNN? Are they avoiding Fox? Can Greta only get Taco Joe and nobody else? There's a lot of negative spin coming from Fox. Should we be tracking CNN more? Just asking.



I don't think there's anything significant. 

Okay. Thanks. I trust your judgment.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Puzzler on November 29, 2007, 11:48:04 PM
I agree with Robots.  I've had this thought in the back of my mind for some time now that the search, the timing of the search and the arrest of J2K, Dave, Dutch/Mos, FBI are all in this one together.

Strength in numbers  :P

yep

no puzzle to figure out there..is there PUZZLER? :cool: :wink:

 :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 11:48:18 PM
Is there anything significant in the fact that Beth and JQK are talking to CNN? Are they avoiding Fox? Can Greta only get Taco Joe and nobody else? There's a lot of negative spin coming from Fox. Should we be tracking CNN more? Just asking.




Well, it would be nice to see something besides Defense attorneys but then that is what Greta was.  I would like to hear John Q Kelley once in a while instead of Taco and Surfer boy.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: GabbyG on November 29, 2007, 11:48:35 PM
Local news abc3340 led with Natalee Holloway story tonight...pretty much the same stuff we already know except the interview with Dave Holloway.  Mentioned the boat that left from Louisiana today and the new search that was planned.  Dave said the prosecutor told him a "couple weeks" ago that Natalee was no longer alive. 

Next question that Hammer has been asking for 2 years now...HOW DOES MOS KNOW SHE IS DEAD?

Someone told them...showed them...or they heard it from the wire taps. 

Dave/TES/KLPD/FBI/Prosecutor all working together.  They know Natalee is not alive.  Maybe they do have a pretty good idea where in the ocean she was put?


I believe they do, at least within a reasonable zone...otherwise it would be worse than finding a needle in a haystack. That is one huge pond out there, ya know.

Mos knows that Natalee is deceased and also knows more, obviously. I think he probably learned how she died and where her body is either from the phone taps, the house bugs, videos, etc. and I believe he was decent enough to share that information with either the FBI who informed Dave, or perhaps he even shared it with TES or Dave directly. I think Tim knows exactly where to look and I believe he will bring Natalee home at long last, and I believe we will have Mos to thank for that.


Gabby,

Thank you for that wonderfully lucid and rational post.  Makes me feel better just reading it and I do so hope you are right.  Yes, that would be logical to think.  Dave Holloway seemed to have hopes. 

Personally, I don't know how they find anything in the ocean but they do for I see it on TV, recovery, treasure, sunken ships all kinds of things are found all the time so let's be hopeful.

That would be the ultimate evidence Mos could have.

Anna



Thank you for your kind words Anna. For me everything feels different this time around. Dave seems different about the search, so does Tim, they seem very confident. It's time for Natalee to come home. I have believed all along that Natalee would be found and that her parents and families will be rewarded for holding on to their faith, leaning on it, never giving up, and continuing to do good even in the face of such tragedy. Good does overcome evil, and I believe this family will be rewarded for their faith by having Natalee given back to them, and by those responsible for harming her being held accountable. It's been a long difficult road for them but it's possible that the end is finally in sight.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 11:49:36 PM
I agree Robots....

this is it...

I would bet but it's Christmas time and I am broke...  :sad:

but.... I agree with you...

good nite monkeys...

keep the faith!

heating oil is bustin all of us up here..
i have been splitting wood for 4 years

i was told i was crazy - who is crazy now  :lol:


Well, I hope you are right about this.  That would be a wonderful Christmas present for all and a source of comfort for this family to bring her home to Sweet Home Alabama where she belongs.

O/T We have the same thing here with propane being un affordable.  If it got really cold, would be very expensive.  Supplementing with space heaters which are dangerous.

.

its crazy  OIL for homes 3.25 a gallon and going up
propane - worse
i have oil and propane and wood

i suspect i will be giving most of the wood away because there are too many people
that need it and i use it as a back up....i will keep a couple cord and try to help some folks
NOT the young folks that should have been cutting it, but the older folks will get it
 :cool:

im so mean  :cool: :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 11:51:35 PM
Still on my wish list....PVDS  :lol:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Sweatyrunningman-new2-1.gif)

OMG
i ment to tell you, earlier i was driving home and i was humming
"sweaty running man" and then all i could was to laugh at myself

im crazy  :lol: :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 11:52:46 PM
i still think one of the k2 will crack like a lobster  :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 29, 2007, 11:53:08 PM
Is there anything significant in the fact that Beth and JQK are talking to CNN? Are they avoiding Fox? Can Greta only get Taco Joe and nobody else? There's a lot of negative spin coming from Fox. Should we be tracking CNN more? Just asking.



I don't think there's anything significant. 

Okay. Thanks. I trust your judgment.




I think ALL the media outlets FOX, CNN, MSNBC, etc care about ratings first and Natalee second.  Greta may speak with Beth often and may care deeply about the case but Grete works for FOX and she has to play by their rules. 



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 11:54:02 PM
Quote:

“It ripped my heart out to hear them say that right now all they’re looking for is to have a funeral in Alabama,” Silvetti said. “What do you say to someone like that?”

Silvetti agreed to provide his equipment and primary survey vessel at well below cost, with Schaefer covering all out-of-pocket expenses. Silvetti said his staff volunteered its services for the project as well.

“They said ‘You don’t even have to pay me. I just want to help,’” Silvetti said. “That just tells me we’ve got the right people on board.”

---

Doesn't that sound wonderful!

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 11:54:32 PM
only a guilty loser would run like PAULUS

 :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 11:56:00 PM
Quote:

“It ripped my heart out to hear them say that right now all they’re looking for is to have a funeral in Alabama,” Silvetti said. “What do you say to someone like that?”

Silvetti agreed to provide his equipment and primary survey vessel at well below cost, with Schaefer covering all out-of-pocket expenses. Silvetti said his staff volunteered its services for the project as well.

“They said ‘You don’t even have to pay me. I just want to help,’” Silvetti said. “That just tells me we’ve got the right people on board.”

---

Doesn't that sound wonderful!

.

there are some nice people and then there are the morons like the slooooooooots


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 29, 2007, 11:56:03 PM
only a guilty loser would run like PAULUS

 :cool:

And he runs like a girl, too!!!

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 29, 2007, 11:57:23 PM
only a guilty loser would run like PAULUS

 :cool:

And he runs like a girl, too!!!

.

LOL
hehehehehehehhe yep


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Observer on November 29, 2007, 11:58:59 PM
If Hans Mos is exactly who he claims to be and wants to solve this case,then he would sit down for a few hours with Beth and Dave Holloway. I can't even imagine how much evidence was ignored,destroyed or sabataged before him and his team took over.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 12:01:39 AM
If Hans Mos is exactly who he claims to be and wants to solve this case,then he would sit down for a few hours with Beth and Dave Holloway. I can't even imagine how much evidence was ignored,destroyed or sabataged before him and his team took over.

Eight hours of interrogation, a page and a half, double spaced at that.  Never made sense.  The belt and all the other stuff in the magic drawer at ALE, etc.
.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 30, 2007, 12:04:00 AM
If Hans Mos is exactly who he claims to be and wants to solve this case,then he would sit down for a few hours with Beth and Dave Holloway. I can't even imagine how much evidence was ignored,destroyed or sabataged.

I agree ******* and I hope he doesn't ask Beth & Dave what evidence they have uncovered.  Aruba/Dutch has been trying to see what they have for the past 2 1/2 years.  They have even tried to bait the FBI and they are not biting.  No way would I show him what I had.

If that question comes out then I know he isn't on their side.  I can see him saying to them we have evidence but we need more.  Do you have any that we are unaware of.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 12:04:03 AM
If Hans Mos is exactly who he claims to be and wants to solve this case,then he would sit down for a few hours with Beth and Dave Holloway. I can't even imagine how much evidence was ignored,destroyed or sabataged before him and his team took over.

The CNN article I posted on the previous page says that MOS will be meeting with them on Saturday  :wink:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 12:05:15 AM
"robots, why do you have 12 cord of wood?


robots --- cause im going to need em  :D :cool:

That's a LOT of splittin'

not bad for an 89 year old


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: brerlee on November 30, 2007, 12:11:19 AM
Greta and Urine, sitting in a tree . . . :D


I guess at least there is CNN.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 12:15:05 AM
Greta and Urine, sitting in a tree . . . :D


I guess at least there is CNN.

I'm not so sure that Greta is that fond of Joran.

Hi brerlee!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 30, 2007, 12:23:42 AM
I agree Robots....

this is it...

I would bet but it's Christmas time and I am broke...  :sad:

but.... I agree with you...

good nite monkeys...

keep the faith!

heating oil is bustin all of us up here..
i have been splitting wood for 4 years

i was told i was crazy - who is crazy now  :lol:


Well, I hope you are right about this.  That would be a wonderful Christmas present for all and a source of comfort for this family to bring her home to Sweet Home Alabama where she belongs.

O/T We have the same thing here with propane being un affordable.  If it got really cold, would be very expensive.  Supplementing with space heaters which are dangerous.

.

Don't do that, you know the reason why, our recent bad experience, losing a sweet person to a space heater fire.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: brerlee on November 30, 2007, 12:24:35 AM
Greta and Urine, sitting in a tree . . . :D


I guess at least there is CNN.

I'm not so sure that Greta is that fond of Joran.

Hi brerlee!
Hi Klaasend. :)

Sure she is. Remember when she said that she was inclined to believe him. And all through her interview, she was all flustered by his attentions to her. :(
And now she says she's going to Aruba . . . to see her young man Urine.

Yeah, I'm curious to see how all these arrests pan out.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 30, 2007, 12:26:44 AM
:) Janet, 'next day' then 'immediately'....very perseptive.

Natalee's case got the last minute of Greta's show.  The reporter (surfer guy..sad I can't remember his name a few minutes later after a week)...called it a cold case in his closing....with Greta in DC....just wondering what info is being swapped behind the scenes between Joe T & the likes....skeptical...hope I'm being silly....

2NJ ... I am also skeptical regarding justice coming out of Aruba for Natalee Holloway but ... at the same time ... I am praying for a miracle.  I know that is God's timing justice will prevail.

Janet

 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 12:26:50 AM
Greta and Urine, sitting in a tree . . . :D


I guess at least there is CNN.

I'm not so sure that Greta is that fond of Joran.

Hi brerlee!
Hi Klaasend. :)

Sure she is. Remember when she said that she was inclined to believe him. And all through her interview, she was all flustered by his attentions to her. :(
And now she says she's going to Aruba . . . to see her young man Urine.

Yeah, I'm curious to see how all these arrests pan out.

Greta has already been to Aruba this week and come back home. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 12:27:06 AM
Did Greta say she was going back to Aruba?  That surprises me if she did.  She seems more interested in other things now.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 30, 2007, 12:28:54 AM
Is there anything significant in the fact that Beth and JQK are talking to CNN? Are they avoiding Fox? Can Greta only get Taco Joe and nobody else? There's a lot of negative spin coming from Fox. Should we be tracking CNN more? Just asking.



I don't think there's anything significant. 

Okay. Thanks. I trust your judgment.




I think ALL the media outlets FOX, CNN, MSNBC, etc care about ratings first and Natalee second.  Greta may speak with Beth often and may care deeply about the case but Grete works for FOX and she has to play by their rules. 



Greta plays by her own rules; she was always in OJ's corner and then all out for Scott Peterson until she had to admit the truth in both of these situations.  I remember her feeling that cop was not guilty of killing his pregnant girlfriend early on.  You not only have to lead her to water, you have to almost drown her to know it's there.   


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 12:32:26 AM
Did Greta say she was going back to Aruba?  That surprises me if she did.  She seems more interested in other things now.
No she hasn't said she'll go back to Aruba.  What Greta says is she goes where her boss tells her to go.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 30, 2007, 12:33:18 AM
:) Janet, 'next day' then 'immediately'....very perseptive.

Natalee's case got the last minute of Greta's show.  The reporter (surfer guy..sad I can't remember his name a few minutes later after a week)...called it a cold case in his closing....with Greta in DC....just wondering what info is being swapped behind the scenes between Joe T & the likes....skeptical...hope I'm being silly....

2NJ ... I am also skeptical regarding justice coming out of Aruba for Natalee Holloway but ... at the same time ... I am praying for a miracle.  I know that is God's timing justice will prevail.

Janet

 

Just seeing this and my misspelling of perceptive..oh, well....Miracles are what our Peaches lives by and that's all right with me.   God be with us.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 12:35:35 AM
Remember from Beth's book, she said Dr. Condi Rice said I want the FBI back in this?  Maybe that has helped with these taps and technology in some way.

Maybe they are also helping with the search?  I have not heard Hans Mos complaining about them once.  That's a good sign I think.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 12:36:33 AM
Did Greta say she was going back to Aruba?  That surprises me if she did.  She seems more interested in other things now.
No she hasn't said she'll go back to Aruba.  What Greta says is she goes where her boss tells her to go.

OK, thanks.

I wonder who her immediate boss is.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 30, 2007, 12:38:36 AM
Did Greta say she was going back to Aruba?  That surprises me if she did.  She seems more interested in other things now.
No she hasn't said she'll go back to Aruba.  What Greta says is she goes where her boss tells her to go.

OK, thanks.

I wonder who her immediate boss is.

.

Roger Ailes and Chris whathisname, the one whose father is older than Santa Claus and was at NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN before Jesus was crucified.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 30, 2007, 12:39:24 AM
Wallace.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 12:41:11 AM
If Hans Mos is exactly who he claims to be and wants to solve this case,then he would sit down for a few hours with Beth and Dave Holloway. I can't even imagine how much evidence was ignored,destroyed or sabataged.

I agree ******* and I hope he doesn't ask Beth & Dave what evidence they have uncovered.  Aruba/Dutch has been trying to see what they have for the past 2 1/2 years.  They have even tried to bait the FBI and they are not biting.  No way would I show him what I had.

If that question comes out then I know he isn't on their side.  I can see him saying to them we have evidence but we need more.  Do you have any that we are unaware of.

San,

You are scaring me!  I hope Hans Mos will have information to share with them but if they have something pertinent to the investigation that would help him, I also think this may be their last, best chance for this to be resolved.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 30, 2007, 12:41:12 AM
If Joran gets internet access, I bet the first place he goes is to SM.  Whaddya think?  Right or wrong?  He always read here late at night!  :lol: :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: brerlee on November 30, 2007, 12:42:22 AM
Okay. So Greta went down and came back. Did she meet her young man one-on-one, err, for an interview? And was she all happy with a nice rosy flush to her face? . . . Probably.

I can still see her face on TV, tell all her support for her Urine, that poor Urine is just misunderstood. Poor, poor Urine. She tends to believe him. . . . My question to her is: Which of his lies are you, Greta, tending to believe? That he walked home from the beach? That the Kalpoes dropped him off at his home first? That Deepak gave him a ride home? etc., etc. . . . Yeah, Greta is a piece of work.

Nowadays, I sorta try to just catch up at night for a little bit on what's going on with the case. I've still a suspicion that stuff ain't going to be all allowed to come out. And that it might still take another year or two before the crucial info actually is dumped on the public (perhaps through exposes, magazine articles, and books). Money tends to loosen tongues, and time often puts those tongues in situations where they really want some money.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 30, 2007, 12:42:25 AM
:) Janet, 'next day' then 'immediately'....very perseptive.

Natalee's case got the last minute of Greta's show.  The reporter (surfer guy..sad I can't remember his name a few minutes later after a week)...called it a cold case in his closing....with Greta in DC....just wondering what info is being swapped behind the scenes between Joe T & the likes....skeptical...hope I'm being silly....

2NJ ... I am also skeptical regarding justice coming out of Aruba for Natalee Holloway but ... at the same time ... I am praying for a miracle.  I know that is God's timing justice will prevail.

Janet

 

Just seeing this and my misspelling of perceptive..oh, well....Miracles are what our Peaches lives by and that's all right with me.   God be with us.

Our two girls, Natalee and Peaches.  That Peaches has the stamina and character that just won't quit.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: yuknomenot on November 30, 2007, 12:42:48 AM
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/29/aruba.holloway/index.html

November 29, 2007

Natalee Holloway's parents to meet with Aruban prosecutor
Story Highlights


By Susan Candiotti
CNN

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) -- The chief prosecutor in the Natalee Holloway investigation has agreed to meet Saturday with the parents of the missing Alabama teen, who is presumed dead.

"I'm really anxious to meet him," Beth Holloway told CNN. "I've waited a long time for this meeting."

A lawyer for Beth Holloway contacted prosecutor Hans Mos last week after suspects Joran van der Sloot and brothers Satish and Deepak Kalpoe were arrested on suspicion of manslaughter.

"There's no doubt in my mind that [Natalee Holloway] is dead. ... I think we have enough evidence to prove the girl is not alive anymore, even without a body," Mos said last week.

Natalee Holloway's mother said she has hope that Mos will be able to solve the case.

"He seems great. The case seems to be handled well. I'm going to ask him some long-awaited questions," she said.

The family is encouraged that the meeting will take place, Holloway attorney John Kelly told CNN. Two years ago, the previous chief prosecutor -- who has since returned to the Netherlands -- would not sit down with them.

Kelly said Beth Holloway and her ex-husband, Dave, want to share information they've gathered since their daughter disappeared in May 2005 while on vacation with about 100 classmates. See a timeline of the case »

Neither he nor Beth Holloway would provide details.

Questions about evidence

Lawyers for the three suspects were in court in Aruba on Thursday on behalf of their clients. They argued that last week's rearrests were baseless and that prosecutors have no new evidence against their clients. They said they have no idea what happened to Holloway.

As he rushed out of the closed hearing before a judge, van der Sloot's lawyer told CNN that authorities have no reason to hold van der Sloot in jail again as they did two years ago. He said the so-called new incriminating evidence is worthless.

"To say it's less than nothing is too much. But it's not very much. It's very, very thin," Ariean de Bie said.

Van der Sloot's parents were allowed to provide him with a Bible but no other reading materials, the lawyer said. Van der Sloot is forbidden from seeing any visitors and can meet only with his lawyers and interrogators.

De Bie said van der Sloot has not provided authorities with any new information since his rearrest and extradition from the Netherlands, where he'd been attending college. He said his client would rather be anywhere than in a prison cell.

"He's not very happy about it," the attorney said.

Van der Sloot's co-counsel -- New York attorney Joe Tacopina -- said he has no doubt his client is innocent.

"Whatever they're holding in their bag, whatever they don't want to show anyone ... it's not going to amount to a hill of beans against Joran van der Sloot because he had no involvement in Natalee's disappearance," Tacopina told CNN.

Tacopina said he'll be in Aruba next week and try to meet with van der Sloot in his jail cell.

Attorneys for the Kalpoe brothers will meet with a judge in separate jailhouse hearings Friday to argue that their clients should be set free and not held another eight days.

A judge will decide whether prosecutors can continue to hold the Kalpoes even longer.

Van der Sloot will have a similar hearing next Friday when prosecutors are expected to ask to keep him jailed another 60 days.

Mos has said he hopes to decide by the end of the year whether he will try all three suspects for Holloway's presumed death, which he suggests was an accident. The prosecutor won't say what his new evidence is until his investigation is complete. (note from me:  I think the reporter used their words and not MOS's words)

New search for remains

The Holloways still have not given up the search for their daughter. In fact, a benefactor is donating an estimated $500,000 to help map the waters offshore.

On Thursday, Natalee's father watched Louis Schaeffer's crew load a boat equipped with the latest sonar equipment and a remote operated vehicle (ROV) to search the waters where Holloway's remains might be.

"I've got a feeling that if she's in the ocean, these guys are gonna find her," Dave Holloway said. "No doubt about it." Watch an interview with Natalee Holloway's father »

Schaeffer said he's retired, has the money, and was touched by the Holloways' tragedy and wanted to help.

"My only objective is to find Natalee, to bring her home for Dave and Beth and also to help identify the people that did this to her. This is a terrible thing, an injustice, and I want to help solve the case," said Schaeffer.

"We've known since [May 2005], the FBI told us Natalee's not with us anymore," Dave Holloway said.

The boat is expected to take about 10 days to get to Aruba. It'll take a few more days to set up a search.

The family says it has no new information about where to look. The Holloways just want to exhaust every area they can offshore with equipment that wasn't available to them two years ago.

Thanks to Schaefer, that's changed.

"We are just so thankful that he's got a big heart and willing to do that," Dave Holloway said.



Is the true answer to Joe T's official involvement or simply the reporter's words?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 12:43:48 AM
Wallace.

I knew Roger Ailles but Chris Wallace is a total surprise.  That might explain a few things, lol.  He is sort of goofy.

MOO

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 30, 2007, 12:46:26 AM
If Hans Mos is exactly who he claims to be and wants to solve this case,then he would sit down for a few hours with Beth and Dave Holloway. I can't even imagine how much evidence was ignored,destroyed or sabataged before him and his team took over.

******* ... I agree.   :sad:

Good Night Monkeys

Janet
9:45 PM


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 12:46:30 AM
Okay. So Greta went down and came back. Did she meet her young man one-on-one, err, for an interview? And was she all happy with a nice rosy flush to her face? . . . Probably.

I can still see her face on TV, tell all her support for her Urine, that poor Urine is just misunderstood. Poor, poor Urine. She tends to believe him. . . . My question to her is: Which of his lies are you, Greta, tending to believe? That he walked home from the beach? That the Kalpoes dropped him off at his home first? That Deepak gave him a ride home? etc., etc. . . . Yeah, Greta is a piece of work.

Nowadays, I sorta try to just catch up at night for a little bit on what's going on with the case. I've still a suspicion that stuff ain't going to be all allowed to come out. And that it might still take another year or two before the crucial info actually is dumped on the public (perhaps through exposes, magazine articles, and books). Money tends to loosen tongues, and time often puts those tongues in situations where they really want some money.

Actually no, she didn't meet with Joran.  Joran is in jail/KIA and he is only allowed to see his attorney, not even family members.

Greta met with Jossy, Hans Mos and the K2's attorneys and that's about it.  She was only there about a day and a half.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 12:47:02 AM
Nite Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 12:51:18 AM
Joran doesn't like it in jail!

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Funny/Aug201020Crying20Child.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 12:54:05 AM
Joran wants his favorite books to read.  Maybe Joe T can take them to him.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Funny/thbook6.jpg)   (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Funny/thbook3.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: memphis on November 30, 2007, 12:56:38 AM
Regarding the search....

At a Rotary Club meeting  :wink: a few years back, we had a speaker who was involved in the search for Amelia Earhart's plane. He was actually involved in the 2002 (I think) search that was abandoned because of technical problems. Anyway, the search has been difficult and as far as I know, the plane has still not been found.

Searchers have theorized (?) where they might have gone down from their last radio transmissions, etc., and they are searching probably a 1000 mile radius (I'm guessing), and the waters may be much deeper, but success has been elusive.

My point is that those searching for Natalee must have some really good information. While the ocean may not be as deep, etc., it seems it would be much harder to find a body than a metal plane.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 12:56:44 AM
Anna   - lol  :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: NCDan on November 30, 2007, 12:57:53 AM
Is there anything significant in the fact that Beth and JQK are talking to CNN? Are they avoiding Fox? Can Greta only get Taco Joe and nobody else? There's a lot of negative spin coming from Fox. Should we be tracking CNN more? Just asking.



CNN is more optimistic than FOX; posted about 2 hours ago by Susan Candiaotti:


By Susan Candiotti
CNN
Decrease font Decrease font
Enlarge font Enlarge font

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) -- The chief prosecutor in the Natalee Holloway investigation has agreed to meet Saturday with the parents of the missing Alabama teen, who is presumed dead.
art.natalee.jpg

Natalee Holloway disappeared while on vacation in Aruba with classmates in 2005.
Click to view previous image
1 of 4
Click to view next image

"I'm really anxious to meet him," Beth Holloway told CNN. "I've waited a long time for this meeting."

A lawyer for Beth Holloway contacted prosecutor Hans Mos last week after suspects Joran van der Sloot and brothers Satish and Deepak Kalpoe were arrested on suspicion of manslaughter.

"There's no doubt in my mind that [Natalee Holloway] is dead. ... I think we have enough evidence to prove the girl is not alive anymore, even without a body," Mos said last week.

Natalee Holloway's mother said she has hope that Mos will be able to solve the case.

"He seems great. The case seems to be handled well. I'm going to ask him some long-awaited questions," she said.

The family is encouraged that the meeting will take place, Holloway attorney John Kelly told CNN. Two years ago, the previous chief prosecutor -- who has since returned to the Netherlands -- would not sit down with them.
Don't Miss

    * Suspect complains about jail treatment
    * Dutch man to stay in custody in Holloway case
    * Prosecutor: 'No doubt' Natalee Holloway is dead

Kelly said Beth Holloway and her ex-husband, Dave, want to share information they've gathered since their daughter disappeared in May 2005 while on vacation with about 100 classmates. See a timeline of the case »

Neither he nor Beth Holloway would provide details.

Questions about evidence

Lawyers for the three suspects were in court in Aruba on Thursday on behalf of their clients. They argued that last week's rearrests were baseless and that prosecutors have no new evidence against their clients. They said they have no idea what happened to Holloway.

As he rushed out of the closed hearing before a judge, van der Sloot's lawyer told CNN that authorities have no reason to hold van der Sloot in jail again as they did two years ago. He said the so-called new incriminating evidence is worthless.

"To say it's less than nothing is too much. But it's not very much. It's very, very thin," Ariean de Bie said.

Van der Sloot's parents were allowed to provide him with a Bible but no other reading materials, the lawyer said. Van der Sloot is forbidden from seeing any visitors and can meet only with his lawyers and interrogators.

De Bie said van der Sloot has not provided authorities with any new information since his rearrest and extradition from the Netherlands, where he'd been attending college. He said his client would rather be anywhere than in a prison cell.

"He's not very happy about it," the attorney said.

Van der Sloot's co-counsel -- New York attorney Joe Tacopina -- said he has no doubt his client is innocent.

"Whatever they're holding in their bag,  (NCDan i.e. recognition they may have something) whatever they don't want to show anyone ... it's not going to amount to a hill of beans against Joran van der Sloot because he had no involvement in Natalee's disappearance," Tacopina told CNN.

Tacopina said he'll be in Aruba next week and try to meet with van der Sloot in his jail cell.

Attorneys for the Kalpoe brothers will meet with a judge in separate jailhouse hearings Friday to argue that their clients should be set free and not held another eight days.

A judge will decide whether prosecutors can continue to hold the Kalpoes even longer. (NCDan Thus it has not yet been determined in spite of surferboy's comments)
Van der Sloot will have a similar hearing next Friday when prosecutors are expected to ask to keep him jailed another 60 days.

Mos has said he hopes to decide by the end of the year whether he will try all three suspects for Holloway's presumed death, which he suggests was an accident. The prosecutor won't say what his new evidence is until his investigation is complete. (NCDan Thus CNN is not pushing a scenario where the evidence must nbe seen NOW)
New search for remains

The Holloways still have not given up the search for their daughter. In fact, a benefactor is donating an estimated $500,000 to help map the waters offshore.

On Thursday, Natalee's father watched Louis Schaeffer's crew load a boat equipped with the latest sonar equipment and a remote operated vehicle (ROV) to search the waters where Holloway's remains might be.

"I've got a feeling that if she's in the ocean, these guys are gonna find her," Dave Holloway said. "No doubt about it." Video Watch an interview with Natalee Holloway's father »

Schaeffer said he's retired, has the money, and was touched by the Holloways' tragedy and wanted to help.

"My only objective is to find Natalee, to bring her home for Dave and Beth and also to help identify the people that did this to her. This is a terrible thing, an injustice, and I want to help solve the case," said Schaeffer.

"We've known since [May 2005], the FBI told us Natalee's not with us anymore," Dave Holloway said.

The boat is expected to take about 10 days to get to Aruba. It'll take a few more days to set up a search.

The family says it has no new information about where to look. The Holloways just want to exhaust every area they can offshore with equipment that wasn't available to them two years ago.
advertisement

Thanks to Schaefer, that's changed.

"We are just so thankful that he's got a big heart and willing to do that," Dave Holloway said. E-mail to a friend E-mail to a friend

CNN's Tracy Sabo contributed to this report.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 12:59:19 AM
Anna   - lol  :lol:


Well, maybe not funny.  Feel free to delete in inappropriate.  Just want the boy to have his favs.

And a calendar for him, too.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Funny/49g06fb_th.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: wreck on November 30, 2007, 01:04:23 AM
Okay, I should not post after a trip to the bar (COWBOY victory by the way).
WE are all on the right side here. If you have faith in a higher power -- have faith that we will see justice and truth.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 01:10:34 AM
NCDan,

Yes, I agree that sounds much more positive!

I wonder if some people really want justice for Natalee.  Those Defense Attorneys have a job to do but I have had my fill of them especially Joe T.
.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 01:13:38 AM
Okay, I should not post after a trip to the bar (COWBOY victory by the way).
WE are all on the right side here. If you have faith in a higher power -- have faith that we will see justice and truth.


I have faith and I'm feeling confident!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 01:17:35 AM
Am going to try to stay awake and listen to Greta again as she has information on other cases.  Again she kept Natalee's coverage until the very last few minutes so people would watch the rest of her program.

So tomorrow the Kalpoes will be detained but even if they were to be released, it doesn't mean Mos has nothing, just that he is not ready to release it to the judge.  I think he will give just enough to keep them in jail and not one crumb more.

Goodnight!

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 30, 2007, 01:18:41 AM
Okay, I should not post after a trip to the bar (COWBOY victory by the way).
WE are all on the right side here. If you have faith in a higher power -- have faith that we will see justice and truth.


I'll try not to get too sappy here, but I agree with you Wreck. I have comforted myself many times in this case when I think about Natalee that night, believing that we may not know exactly what happened, but God knows. He saw it all and Natalee was not alone in her dying moments. The truth has a different weight than lies and different properties. It has a way of bubbling up no matter how deeply it's buried. Those who caused her pain and death were seen. I wouldn't want to walk through life with a Sovereign God being a witness to what I had done and knowing He hears me continuing to lie about it. I think He's the reason truth holds the properties I mentioned. Huh-uh, I wouldn't be in their shoes.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 01:18:48 AM
Nite Anna


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: brerlee on November 30, 2007, 01:19:43 AM
I'm going to wait a bit longer, w.r.t., Mos.

I still remember when DumbPig first took charge. Yup. I'm going to wait a bit.

And the original main Aruba LE investigators are still in their lead positions in the investigation.

Yup. I'm going to wait a bit longer before I'm all "rah! rah!" and all hopping on the bandwagon. They (ALE/Dutch) have to first deliver something substantial first, especially considering their past history.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 30, 2007, 01:21:11 AM
I'm still at the office, and have been working a little in between posts!  :lol: I'm going to brave the cold and get out of here. I'll check in when I get home!  :wink:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 01:22:07 AM
I'm going to wait a bit longer, w.r.t., Mos.

I still remember when DumbPig first took charge. Yup. I'm going to wait a bit.

And the original main Aruba LE investigators are still in their lead positions in the investigation.

Yup. I'm going to wait a bit longer before I'm all "rah! rah!" and all hopping on the bandwagon. They (ALE/Dutch) have to first deliver something substantial first, especially considering their past history.

I understand.  Keep in mind Mos is the prosecutor and Dompig was just the acting Police Chief.  There are only a few of the original ALE on the case and they are hand picked by the special KLPD team. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 01:22:51 AM
I'm still at the office, and have been working a little in between posts!  :lol: I'm going to brave the cold and get out of here. I'll check in when I get home!  :wink:

OK  :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: NYC_lover on November 30, 2007, 01:25:32 AM
Wrote at RU:

Aruba's judicial system

Overview:

1. Aruba Criminal system is mirrored after the Dutch criminal justice system

2. Traditionally distinguishes itself from other criminal justice systems including the U.S. on many aspects including the severity of sanctions imposed

3. Basic 2 categories of criminal offenses: (i) felonies equivalent (“misdrijf”) and (ii) misdemeanor (“overtreding”)

Attorneys

4. Appointed by the State or privately engaged

5. Admitted to the bar of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba

Duties and powers of the Prosecutor

6. Limited & specific powers:

7. Denominated as chief of investigation by law. Rarely directly involved in the investigation, usually provides general instructions and police in charge of investigative activities.

8. Prosecutorial decisions. Monopoly on which cases go to court. If prosecutor chooses to dismiss a case, that decision can be appealed to the Appellate Court, in which case an order to prosecute could follow. Government/executive branch does not have the power to take prosecutorial desicions.

9. Prosecuting attorney at trial

10. Execution of any sentence imposed

Police investigation

11. Under supervision of prosecutor

12. Suspect must be informed of his rights

13. Suspect has the right to an attorney and not to incriminate himself

14. Hours of investigation limited. No investigation b/w 22:00 and 08:00

15. Written record is made of all interrogations, not a complete transcript, which will go on file

Courts & judges

16. All judges appointed by the Queen. Not through elections or political appointments.

17. Appointed for life.

18. Judges must follow special, rigorous training of 6 years, to qualify for appointment.

19. Alternate judges can be appointed based on trial experience & specific expertise

20. Trial by 1 judge in Court of First Instance of Aruba

21. Appeals handled by 3 judges of the Common Courts of Appeals of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba

22. Appeals at the Supreme Court in the Hague, Netherlands

23. Decision of the supreme court do no constitute legally binding precedent, there’s no official stare decisis. Although lower courts tend to follow supreme court views.

24. Role of the examining judge: (i) during pre-trial to independently examine the legality of procedural aspects & well-being of suspects; (ii) upon instruction of the trialing judge to examine or cross-examine witnesses at request of defense; can’t take the role of a trial judge.

25. Examining judge as a rule not the same individual as trialing judge, to ensure objectivity and impartialness

Pre-trial

26. Pre-trial detention possible in cases of felonies in case that there are:

“... facts and/or circumstances that can justify a reasonable suspicion of involvement in a(ny) criminal act ...”

27. Various phases of detention

- Detention (“aanhouding”): detention for up to six (6) hours; followed by release or

- Arrest/detention (“inverzekeringstelling”): per order of the prosecutor plus 2 X 48 hours

- Examining-judge review of the procedural legality of the first 72 hours of detention

- Detention (“bewaring”): extension of 8 days (so far total 10 days)

- Detention (“gevangenhouding”): extensions and subsequent extensions, possibly leading up to the date of the trial

28. During this phase the defense has remedies to file for suspension of detention and/or other injunctive measures

29. Place of detention. First 10 days usually a police station, after that to the correction facility

Trial

30. Suspects have right to trial within a reasonable period of time

31. Public hearing

32. No trial by jury, but by a professional judge

33. No plea-bargaining

34. No death penalty

35. No permission required by the prosecutor from the court to go to trial

36. Indictment presented, at the prerogative of the prosecutor, after investigations have taken place

37. Defense will have chance to cross-examine witnesses before an examining judge

38. Maximum sentences: (i) Life imprisonment; or (ii) limited time. Section 11 Criminal Code

39. Maximum sentence of limited time sentence is 20 years i.e. 15 plus 5

40. Life sentencing has been issued in the past by the Courts.

41. Death sentence abolished since late 1800’s and since then no serious attempts to re-instate same.

Principles of legality (nulla poena)

42. no conduct can be characterized as criminal, unless defined by a specific statute

43. all legal statutes are subject no very strict interpretation

44. newly imposed (heavier sanctioning) can’t be imposed on a suspect retroactively

45. only penalties imposed by statutes may be applied.

Requirements of criminal act in general

46. (a) conduct by a person; (b) which falls under the definition of an offense; (c) is unlawful; and (4) for which the perpetrator must be held guilty

Justification grounds for criminal acts

47. (a) self defennce (“noodweer”); (b) official orders by an authorized person (”ambtelijk bevel”); (c) hardship/necessity (“noodtoestand”)

Access to information in pre-trial stage

48. No obligation by the prosecutor a/o investigating officers to disclose details of investigation to third parties, incl. the media

49. Press conferences held by prosecution not customary

50. Prosecutor’s office has limited authority to disclose details of the investigation to the suspects

Legal age & prosecution

51. Below 18 years is considered a minor

52. In principle no jail time, but if convicted of a felony, placed at disposal of the Government a/o equivalent to “juvenile hall” a/o in combination with half of an adult sentence. In case of life sentence, maximum of 10 years

Note:
Although this article has been prepared carefully, it may only serve as a summary of the facts presented and its contents should not be relied upon blindly. The text is intended only as an overview of fundamental regulations of the subject and as such may contain inaccuracies and simplifications in its description of the applicable laws, regulations and case law. Application of rules and regulations in each case are on account of special circumstances and it is recommended that advice of counsel be sought in dealing with the application of the law.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 01:40:02 AM
http://www.aruba-bb.com/viewtopic.php?t=51825

Earthquake Was Too Deep To Produce A Tsunami



November 29th 2007, Aruba.



ORANJESTAD-Chaos through out many Caribbean islands, as a powerful
magnitude 7.4 earthquake shook the region at exactly 03:00pm
(02:00pm EST) this afternoon. The earthquake was centered 26 miles
southeast of Roseau, the capital of Dominica, where the shaking lasted
for 20 seconds.

The quake was felt hundreds of miles away from the epicenter, in Puerto
Rico to the west, and Venezuela and Suriname on the South American
continent. The quake send office workers and shoppers on several
islands fleeing into the streets.

Martinique Hardest Hit

Minor injuries have been reported on the French island of Martinique. A
government official said police and fire-fighters were responding to
hundreds of calls for help. Fortunately, no casualties have been reported.
The quake collapsed the roofs of a bank and store in the capital Fort-de-
France.

No Tsunami Threat Caribbean Region

The quake struck at a depth of 90 miles, according to the U.S. Geological
Survey (UGS). The Pacific Tsunami Warning Center in Hawaii said the
quake was too deep to generate a destructive tsunami, that could have
affected many islands in the region and coastal countries of the Americas
located near the Caribbean basin. The last tsunami to have affected the
Caribbean happened in 1946, killing 1,800 people. The tsunami was
triggered by a magnitude 8.6 earthquake near the Dominican Republic.

Many Islands Felt The Tremor

In Trinidad, the shaking sent workers streaming out of office towers into
the streets of the capital, Port-of-Spain. The quake did not disrupt
production at Trinidad state-owned oil refinery, Petrotrin. The refinery
produces 160,000 barrels of refined gasoline, diesel and oil daily for
domestic use and export to countries including the United States.

Thousands more ran outside on the island of St. Maarten. Flight's at
Princess Juliana International Airport (one of the busiest in the region)
were briefly suspended. In Guyana, lawmakers evacuated the South
American country's parliament building.

In St. Lucia, Julian Dubios, deputy director of the national emergency
management organization, said the quake caused some panic and broke
water lines but did not appear to cause severe damage. In the capital,
Castriers, people saw buildings swaying but not collapsing. A glass door
of one company was shattered.

St. Lucia resident Annie Ellis said the quake was the strongest she has
experienced. "In all my years, I have never felt any earthquake so
powerful," said the 100-year-old Ellis. "And it lasted such a long time."

In Antigua, islanders said the shaking lasted about 30 seconds. Antigua
resident Jessie Kentish, said he has not felt such powerful qauke like that
in a very long time.

Caribbean Quake Triggers False Alarms in California

The earthquake that shook the Caribbean region this afternoon triggered
a series of false quake alarms in California. The computers at USG,
picked up energy coming out of the Caribbean and treated it as local
seismic activity. The fake quakes began registering nine minutes after the
Caribbean quake.


Caribbean Major Earthquakes

Major earthquakes are not common in the Caribbean region, but the
volcanic chain that makes up the Caribbean islands is active, with several
light tremors a day. On average, a major earthquake shakes the
Caribbean every 50 years. A dozen earthquakes of magnitude 7.0 or
greater have occurred in the last 500 years, each capable of creating a
tsunami.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Frank on November 30, 2007, 01:55:01 AM
Lawyers are competitive and have large egos, it's part of being successful. Few lawyers, ever, get an audience like this. Janssen hid, couldn't emotionally or professionally handle it.

Mos has an opportunity few get but often dream about. It's the bottom of the ninth, seventh game of the world series.

Janet is praying for a miracle and I'm praying for her praying. But Mos is not sunbathing during the day, he's pale and has been working.

This is the shot we've wanted and WE MUST be positive, we have no choice.

We have a ship of the highest caliber focused and a prosecutor focused so here it is.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 02:00:16 AM
Lawyers are competitive and have large egos, it's part of being successful. Few lawyers, ever, get an audience like this. Janssen hid, couldn't emotionally or professionally handle it.

Mos has an opportunity few get but often dream about. It's the bottom of the ninth, seventh game of the world series.

Janet is praying for a miracle and I'm praying for her praying. But Mos is not sunbathing during the day, he's pale and has been working.

This is the shot we've wanted and WE MUST be positive, we have no choice.

We have a ship of the highest caliber focused and a prosecutor focused so here it is.

I agree Frank !


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 02:00:49 AM
GOODNIGHT ALL!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: IBE on November 30, 2007, 02:28:58 AM
I agree Robots....

this is it...

I would bet but it's Christmas time and I am broke...  :sad:

but.... I agree with you...

good nite monkeys...

keep the faith!

heating oil is bustin all of us up here..
i have been splitting wood for 4 years

i was told i was crazy - who is crazy now  :lol:


Well, I hope you are right about this.  That would be a wonderful Christmas present for all and a source of comfort for this family to bring her home to Sweet Home Alabama where she belongs.

O/T We have the same thing here with propane being un affordable.  If it got really cold, would be very expensive.  Supplementing with space heaters which are dangerous.

.

its crazy  OIL for homes 3.25 a gallon and going up
propane - worse
i have oil and propane and wood

i suspect i will be giving most of the wood away because there are too many people
that need it and i use it as a back up....i will keep a couple cord and try to help some folks
NOT the young folks that should have been cutting it, but the older folks will get it
 :cool:

im so mean  :cool: :lol:

Not mean, but wise! Saw a splitter on TV that was electric and could be put in a garage. Silk long underwear helps to keep warm and light weight. Kind of expensive but lasts a long time.

J4N and all missing persons.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 30, 2007, 07:42:08 AM
i still think one of the k2 will crack like a lobster  :cool:

I think it will be satish. We haven't heard from his lawyer much either...hhhmmm...I don't remember hearing satish is pleading the 5th.
Sing like a canary satish!! sing!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 30, 2007, 07:44:56 AM
In other words, Joran may have never had a missing pair of shoes at all, but the story of the missing shoes was in place just to implicate the Kalpoes and give Joran an option of placing them at the beach and last to have an opportunity to kill her.

Exactly!

That's what Robots and I were talking about with all that SHOE talk that everybody got so mad at us for.

We were trying to say that very thing.

And got told to go eat a bug, if I recall.

.

?? someone wanted you and robots to eat a bug. yuuuuccckk!
No bugs for Anna and Robots!!!
We only want the bugs for j2k!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 30, 2007, 07:48:32 AM
In other words, Joran may have never had a missing pair of shoes at all, but the story of the missing shoes was in place just to implicate the Kalpoes and give Joran an option of placing them at the beach and last to have an opportunity to kill her.

Exactly!

That's what Robots and I were talking about with all that SHOE talk that everybody got so mad at us for.

We were trying to say that very thing.

And got told to go eat a bug, if I recall.

.

I'm having chocolate covered grasshoppers. Care to join me?

ok...putting my breakfast in the trash...lol....all the bug talk ruined my appetite!! I missed some good bug talk last night!!! lol thank goodness!! lol
Good Morning by the way Monkeys!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 30, 2007, 07:51:59 AM
In other words, Joran may have never had a missing pair of shoes at all, but the story of the missing shoes was in place just to implicate the Kalpoes and give Joran an option of placing them at the beach and last to have an opportunity to kill her.

Exactly!

That's what Robots and I were talking about with all that SHOE talk that everybody got so mad at us for.

We were trying to say that very thing.

And got told to go eat a bug, if I recall.

.

Anna

I remember all that. :cool:

Ado


Yes, other posters were really nasty about it and told us to basically not talk about the shoes any more.

AND I REMEMBER YOUR THEORY THAT JORAN STOLE A PAIR OF SIZE 14 from the Racquet club.  That makes so much sense to me since the Dutch interrogator proved Joran wore a 10.5 per Jossy.

He planted those so to prove he was somewhere he wasn't and to get the Kalpoes to go get them making them the last ones with Natalee on the supposed beach, etc.

Hope I am not ordered to eat any bugs for saying this again.

.

sending a cinnamon roll and a good cup of coffee your way Anna!! :smt052
Spiders for Robots since he likes them!!
The theory makes sense to me!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 30, 2007, 08:20:14 AM
That's exactly why I think the shoes are important.  Joran made way too big a deal out of the shoes on Greta.  Either those were exactly the shoes he was wearing or he wanted us to believe it. 

I agree, the whole shoe thing may have been a ruse to pin it on the Kalpoes.  That's why the shoes ARE important.


I am reading Beth's book for the 2nd time. When she was being read joran's statements by her lawyer....the ones where she had no idea what the questions were that were being asked, only joran's answers, he says in his 7:30pm statement on June 10th:
"...My father told us that our e-mails would be read and our cell phones would be bugged. He told us to get our stories straight and then send e-mails. We should use the hard drive to nail an alibi. First, all three of us have to agree on the story and stick to it. If we keep calm and all our stories match, they will let us go in 10 days. My father said to me, "I hope she is alive. But not a big chance for that."

Could it be, that j2k called paulus when they could not get an unconscious Natalee to wake up. Paulus sent the boys home to "nail and alibi", stops at the atm and calls someone to take care of Natalee's body. At the time paulus turns Natalee over to the unknown person, she is unconscious, but alive. If joe t really did give joran a lie detector, it would be the reason he would pass it, he really was not involved in Natalee's body being dissappeared, and the k2 brothers either. The boys go home and wait and e-mail and each other while paulus takes care of hiding Natalee. It is also the reason why in the police car, they can say they don't know if she is alive...they don't KNOW as in have witnessed it, but they KNOW she isn't. Deepak then states, your own father, unbelieveable...because it is paulus and the unknown, or possibly just paulus alone, who knows where Natalee has been placed. The next day, Paulus goes to check on Natalee. Whether she has made it through the night or not, gosh I hate saying this, he can't have Natalee alive at this point. She is then moved to her final resting place.
The shoes could either be a ruse, or left by the unknown, if paulus did not hide Natalee by himself...and they need to be answered for.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: adoronron on November 30, 2007, 08:25:29 AM
i still say PUKE boy was driving a vehicle that night

remember when k2 were talking about a flat tire and it was jorans idea according to K2 ( that whole story)

see, the excuse for joran having to drive that night was because his buddies broke down and joran had to go to the rescue to help them (like meathead would even know how to change a tire"

MORE BULL CRAP

i can see it
i can smell it

it stinks like paulus and joran

Robots is dead on about Joran driving that night. If you go back and read the Depak interrogations you'll see the ALE asking Depak numerous times if Joran knows how to drive. The ALE knew the Sloot jeep or whatever it is was out and about the night Natalee disappeared.
I don't think initially Paulus was aware that Joran had taken the jeep out that night.When Paulus did find out he changed his story. Instead of maintaining he slept all night all of a sudden he confesses he picked up Joran and Natalee that night. He did this because he realized there could be evidence that Natalee had been in the jeep and if the ALE found it the story line he and J2K were holding to would fall apart. As I recall his (paulus) final statement about the jeep being out at night was he picked them up in the jeep at 4 AM which is about the time Joran would be out hiding Natalee. (Shortly after looking up overdose info on the internet at home.) By saying he picked them up, he covered the possibility of the ALE asking how come they found evidence of Natalee having been in the jeep.
I don't think Natalee was ever at the Sloot compound, but she was in that jeep.

Ado


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: chelebele on November 30, 2007, 08:27:38 AM
ldstlou - that would also explain why no one has cracked about the location of the body...they may not know. Paulus may not even know if he called someone to "take care of it" That way, they could all pass lie detector tests regarding whether she is alive, and whether or not they know where the body is.....    interesting.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Helen Back on November 30, 2007, 08:30:04 AM
I'm going to wait a bit longer, w.r.t., Mos.

I still remember when DumbPig first took charge. Yup. I'm going to wait a bit.

And the original main Aruba LE investigators are still in their lead positions in the investigation.

Yup. I'm going to wait a bit longer before I'm all "rah! rah!" and all hopping on the bandwagon. They (ALE/Dutch) have to first deliver something substantial first, especially considering their past history.

I understand.  Keep in mind Mos is the prosecutor and Dompig was just the acting Police Chief.  There are only a few of the original ALE on the case and they are hand picked by the special KLPD team. 

Morning monkeys!

I agree, Klaas.  I would add that one is skeeeeerrrry smart and one ........can't rub two thoughts together!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 30, 2007, 08:38:19 AM
ldstlou - that would also explain why no one has cracked about the location of the body...they may not know. Paulus may not even know if he called someone to "take care of it" That way, they could all pass lie detector tests regarding whether she is alive, and whether or not they know where the body is.....    interesting.

I agree, but I still tend to think paulus was in on hiding Natalee.  The creep was on top of everything from moment one....already thinking of alibis and interogations! He has a criminal mind!! He would have wanted as few people involved as possible, and he would have wanted complete control. He would have had to have known for himself that Natalee was some place where she would never be found to implicate his boy!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 30, 2007, 08:45:10 AM
i still say PUKE boy was driving a vehicle that night

remember when k2 were talking about a flat tire and it was jorans idea according to K2 ( that whole story)

see, the excuse for joran having to drive that night was because his buddies broke down and joran had to go to the rescue to help them (like meathead would even know how to change a tire"

MORE BULL CRAP

i can see it
i can smell it

it stinks like paulus and joran

Robots is dead on about Joran driving that night. If you go back and read the Depak interrogations you'll see the ALE asking Depak numerous times if Joran knows how to drive. The ALE knew the Sloot jeep or whatever it is was out and about the night Natalee disappeared.
I don't think initially Paulus was aware that Joran had taken the jeep out that night.When Paulus did find out he changed his story. Instead of maintaining he slept all night all of a sudden he confesses he picked up Joran and Natalee that night. He did this because he realized there could be evidence that Natalee had been in the jeep and if the ALE found it the story line he and J2K were holding to would fall apart. As I recall his (paulus) final statement about the jeep being out at night was he picked them up in the jeep at 4 AM which is about the time Joran would be out hiding Natalee. (Shortly after looking up overdose info on the internet at home.) By saying he picked them up, he covered the possibility of the ALE asking how come they found evidence of Natalee having been in the jeep.
I don't think Natalee was ever at the Sloot compound, but she was in that jeep.

Ado

paulus and joran and natalee at mcdonalds at 4am. i remember this being a reason for paulus' denial of money to be paid by aruban govt.  i think it was believed (by the court) that paulus had more than one contact with natalee that fateful evening.

so............ in looking at a ruling by its own (aruban) court, this info sure should play a major role, too, in discrediting the timeline set forth by the perpetrators.  paulus was sleeping, joran home at 4am by a deepak ride / satish ride / walk home. 

question: does the fact that paulus be longer deemed a suspect in the case through a previous ruling interfere with MOS trying to initiate charges against him at this stage. i do not know the answer to this question. would MOS have to have the ruling overturned / reversed before initiating charges against paulus or could new evidence simply allow for this to happen?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Leslie on November 30, 2007, 08:48:37 AM
Wrote at RU:
Aruba's judicial system
<snipped>


I posted this information on November 24, 2007 at 3:20 PM.  Please don't give RU credit for research.  
http://www.aruba.com/about/judicialsystem.php


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 30, 2007, 08:51:09 AM
ldstlou - that would also explain why no one has cracked about the location of the body...they may not know. Paulus may not even know if he called someone to "take care of it" That way, they could all pass lie detector tests regarding whether she is alive, and whether or not they know where the body is.....    interesting.

Somehow, I have always had a feeling that PappaSloot would NOT want Joran involved in the final stages....for many reasons. The sea disposal did not involve J2K.


Title: Good Morning, Good Morning
Post by: Leslie on November 30, 2007, 08:55:45 AM
Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
Aruba Today
http://www.arubatoday.com/
24ora
http://www.24ora.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: ldstlou on November 30, 2007, 09:01:16 AM
ldstlou - that would also explain why no one has cracked about the location of the body...they may not know. Paulus may not even know if he called someone to "take care of it" That way, they could all pass lie detector tests regarding whether she is alive, and whether or not they know where the body is.....    interesting.

Somehow, I have always had a feeling that PappaSloot would NOT want Joran involved in the final stages....for many reasons. The sea disposal did not involve J2K.

In my heart I am sure of this too. It's why the boys haven't cracked...they told everything else...but not where Natalee is...because they don't know..it was all paulus. When Paulus took over, I believe Natalee was unconscious, joran could not revive her just as he told freddie, but she was still alive. It was when paulus took over that she met her demise. Now was it by accident or did he kill her? When he took over, and decided to cover for joran, he could NOT have Natalee alive after that.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 30, 2007, 09:15:16 AM
That's exactly why I think the shoes are important.  Joran made way too big a deal out of the shoes on Greta.  Either those were exactly the shoes he was wearing or he wanted us to believe it. 

I agree, the whole shoe thing may have been a ruse to pin it on the Kalpoes.  That's why the shoes ARE important.


I am reading Beth's book for the 2nd time. When she was being read joran's statements by her lawyer....the ones where she had no idea what the questions were that were being asked, only joran's answers, he says in his 7:30pm statement on June 10th:
"...My father told us that our e-mails would be read and our cell phones would be bugged. He told us to get our stories straight and then send e-mails. We should use the hard drive to nail an alibi. First, all three of us have to agree on the story and stick to it. If we keep calm and all our stories match, they will let us go in 10 days. My father said to me, "I hope she is alive. But not a big chance for that."

Could it be, that j2k called paulus when they could not get an unconscious Natalee to wake up. Paulus sent the boys home to "nail and alibi", stops at the atm and calls someone to take care of Natalee's body. At the time paulus turns Natalee over to the unknown person, she is unconscious, but alive. If joe t really did give joran a lie detector, it would be the reason he would pass it, he really was not involved in Natalee's body being dissappeared, and the k2 brothers either. The boys go home and wait and e-mail and each other while paulus takes care of hiding Natalee. It is also the reason why in the police car, they can say they don't know if she is alive...they don't KNOW as in have witnessed it, but they KNOW she isn't. Deepak then states, your own father, unbelieveable...because it is paulus and the unknown, or possibly just paulus alone, who knows where Natalee has been placed. The next day, Paulus goes to check on Natalee. Whether she has made it through the night or not, gosh I hate saying this, he can't have Natalee alive at this point. She is then moved to her final resting place.
The shoes could either be a ruse, or left by the unknown, if paulus did not hide Natalee by himself...and they need to be answered for.

Why would Paulus have to instruct them all on their alibi. Why would they have to keep calm.  If he was innocent he would not need an alibi.  He is trying to say that Natalee was alive when he was with her last.  He makes himself look even more guilty by saying what he said.  I bet Paulus was doing back flips when he read this part.

I believe the only one who didn't realize she wasn't alive was Satish Kalpoe at the time.  I do believe she could have been alive at some point and Paulus took over.  By the time of the police car conversation they knew the whole deal.  Deepak comment if they find the girl they will see that shit and you will get 15 years.  15 years is some sort of murder charge.  They also knew they were being recorded and were careful with how they said certain things.  In fact in the police car conversation the Kalpoes did a much better job than Joran.  The Kalpoes implicated Paulus even more and that is why Joran said he should have killed Deepak.  For once the little guy Deepak got Joran the big tough guys goat and he didn't like it.  I agree that Paulus might have said we can't have her alive because she would just ruin all of them and that would explain the premeditated murder charge against him.

I will guarantee that Joe T. never gave Joran a lie detector test.  If he did he would have asked him questions like is the sky blue  :roll:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Dihannah1 on November 30, 2007, 09:29:04 AM
Good morning Monkeys, a little tidbit from Fox and Friends this morning. They had Kimberly Guilfoyle on and she said she will be having something from Aruba during her show this weekend.  She has some exclusive news is what she said..... ????   Wonder what that is....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 30, 2007, 09:33:22 AM
Leslie, I fixed your quote on the previous page.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: snoopy on November 30, 2007, 09:36:41 AM


Good Morning Everybody!!

Interesting things happen on Friday. 

I wonder what the day will bring.

Justice for Natalee.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Leslie on November 30, 2007, 09:49:49 AM
San:  Thanks, it was a little confusing! 

From 24ora:

Abogado di Kalpoe a entama caso contra OM  
Corte  
Friday, 30 November 2007  

Diahuebs a tuma lugar un caso hudicial, cu mas bien a ser entama pa bufete di David Kock & Wix, p’e hecho cu Ministerio Publico, despues di practicamente 2 aña y mei, nan no por defende un di e rumannan Kalpoe. Ministerio Publico for di siman pasa caba a duna di conoce, cu defensa di rumannan Kalpoe no por wordo atendi pa un solo abogado y pesei ayera a apela e decision aki di Ministerio Publico.
--
Stats for one of Joran's gambling names:    
  
Username = ANGRYSHARK68
Games Played = 32
Av. Profit = -$12
Av. Stake Av. = $30
Av. ROI = -45%
Total Profit = -$388 (minus $388)
Form = Super Tilt
Network = PokerStars
 
http://www.sharkscope.com/index.html?username=ANGRYSHARK68&network=pokerstars


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Dayhiker on November 30, 2007, 09:51:56 AM
question: does the fact that paulus be longer deemed a suspect in the case through a previous ruling interfere with MOS trying to initiate charges against him at this stage. i do not know the answer to this question. would MOS have to have the ruling overturned / reversed before initiating charges against paulus or could new evidence simply allow for this to happen?[/color]


Buckshot, if they have new evidence they can come up with different charges (they have a several grocery bags full of them) and haul him back in. If they want him bad enough, they'll get him. The tide turned in that appeals case, he is no longer the Dutch judges' golden boy.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 09:52:35 AM
WTF???


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on November 30, 2007, 09:52:53 AM
Okay, I should not post after a trip to the bar (COWBOY victory by the way).
WE are all on the right side here. If you have faith in a higher power -- have faith that we will see justice and truth.


I have faith and I'm feeling confident!

Why am I the only one here that feels worried about all this?  I am so afraid that they won't find her and I don't think Mos has the goods and it's all a trick to get someone to slip up and talk. Gosh!  I don't know how this family has been able to ride this roller coaster so many times.

Sorry, morning monkeys!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Leslie on November 30, 2007, 09:56:55 AM
Dear San,
Please fix my previous post and delete everything after the link.  I DID delete it before posting (I think).  Anyway, all I was trying to show was that Joran might be an angry (card)  shark because he is such a lousy gambler.
Thank you,


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 09:57:11 AM
Okay, I should not post after a trip to the bar (COWBOY victory by the way).
WE are all on the right side here. If you have faith in a higher power -- have faith that we will see justice and truth.


I have faith and I'm feeling confident!

Why am I the only one here that feels worried about all this?  I am so afraid that they won't find her and I don't think Mos has the goods and it's all a trick to get someone to slip up and talk. Gosh!  I don't know how this family has been able to ride this roller coaster so many times.

Sorry, morning monkeys!

your not the only one who is worried.  If the judge lets the K's out today, this thing is pretty much over unless TES can find the body :-x


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Dayhiker on November 30, 2007, 09:57:12 AM
Lawyers are competitive and have large egos, it's part of being successful. Few lawyers, ever, get an audience like this. Janssen hid, couldn't emotionally or professionally handle it.

Mos has an opportunity few get but often dream about. It's the bottom of the ninth, seventh game of the world series.

Janet is praying for a miracle and I'm praying for her praying. But Mos is not sunbathing during the day, he's pale and has been working.

This is the shot we've wanted and WE MUST be positive, we have no choice.

We have a ship of the highest caliber focused and a prosecutor focused so here it is.


Frank, I agree with you here and maintain a positive outlook. I just don't believe the Dutch would be stupid enough to open this thing up on the public stage again if they didn't know they had them. I think they want to change the corrupt perception of what the abuse of the Aruban government and judiciary have made them look like too. Until they prove us wrong, I'll give them a shot.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Buckeye on November 30, 2007, 09:58:08 AM
IIRC

The original posting of the Aruban Legal info was a pdf from the lawfirm of Gomez and Bikker in June 2005.


MEMORANDUM
FROM Gomez & Bikker
law offices
Lincoln D. Gomez
Lincoln@gobiklaw.com
DATE June 16h, 2005
SUBJECT Aspects of Aruba Criminal law & criminal
law proceedings


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Puzzler on November 30, 2007, 10:02:10 AM
ldstlou - that would also explain why no one has cracked about the location of the body...they may not know. Paulus may not even know if he called someone to "take care of it" That way, they could all pass lie detector tests regarding whether she is alive, and whether or not they know where the body is.....    interesting.

I agree, but I still tend to think paulus was in on hiding Natalee.  The creep was on top of everything from moment one....already thinking of alibis and interogations! He has a criminal mind!! He would have wanted as few people involved as possible, and he would have wanted complete control. He would have had to have known for himself that Natalee was some place where she would never be found to implicate his boy!!

I believe that Paulus was INSTRUMENTAL in hiding Natalee.  J2K were too nervous, too young, too uneducated to carry off something a major as this and to have been undiscovered so long.   This took PLANNING, by a person EDUCATED IN THE LAW to know all the bases that had to be covered.  We get impressions throughout that Paulus coached and directed these three on what to do and say.  Paulus is in this very deep.
Mos knows it.  We heard Mos say that the father is involved one way or another.  To me, that means that Paulus is involved...period.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Stella on November 30, 2007, 10:02:38 AM
Okay, I should not post after a trip to the bar (COWBOY victory by the way).
WE are all on the right side here. If you have faith in a higher power -- have faith that we will see justice and truth.


I have faith and I'm feeling confident!

Why am I the only one here that feels worried about all this?  I am so afraid that they won't find her and I don't think Mos has the goods and it's all a trick to get someone to slip up and talk. Gosh!  I don't know how this family has been able to ride this roller coaster so many times.

Sorry, morning monkeys!

Good morning!  You're not the only one who's worried, LaLa. I feel the same way.  If the decision today is to let the 2K go, I'll be convinced it's the same old same old and the whole thing is another show and they're just going to do the same coverup as two years ago.

If they keep them, my optimism will firm up a little bit....  Today's an important day IMO.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Dayhiker on November 30, 2007, 10:05:41 AM

I have faith and I'm feeling confident!

Why am I the only one here that feels worried about all this?  I am so afraid that they won't find her and I don't think Mos has the goods and it's all a trick to get someone to slip up and talk. Gosh!  I don't know how this family has been able to ride this roller coaster so many times.

Sorry, morning monkeys!


It's easy to feel that way Lalas after watching the screwing the case took the first two years. They'd make promises and break promises with such ease it did nothing but kill their credibility. This is a different bunch, they are not from Aruba and could give a ratsass about the Sloots. I dare say they don't care for the mafia either.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 10:08:43 AM
Okay, I should not post after a trip to the bar (COWBOY victory by the way).
WE are all on the right side here. If you have faith in a higher power -- have faith that we will see justice and truth.


I have faith and I'm feeling confident!

Why am I the only one here that feels worried about all this?  I am so afraid that they won't find her and I don't think Mos has the goods and it's all a trick to get someone to slip up and talk. Gosh!  I don't know how this family has been able to ride this roller coaster so many times.

Sorry, morning monkeys!

cause you are a skeeeeeeeeeeerdy cat  :lol:  hehehehheh

no, you are just being cautious because this case has stunk from the get go

Mos is the Boss

have no fear  :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 10:09:54 AM
ldstlou - that would also explain why no one has cracked about the location of the body...they may not know. Paulus may not even know if he called someone to "take care of it" That way, they could all pass lie detector tests regarding whether she is alive, and whether or not they know where the body is.....    interesting.

I agree, but I still tend to think paulus was in on hiding Natalee.  The creep was on top of everything from moment one....already thinking of alibis and interogations! He has a criminal mind!! He would have wanted as few people involved as possible, and he would have wanted complete control. He would have had to have known for himself that Natalee was some place where she would never be found to implicate his boy!!

I believe that Paulus was INSTRUMENTAL in hiding Natalee.  J2K were too nervous, too young, too uneducated to carry off something a major as this and to have been undiscovered so long.   This took PLANNING, by a person EDUCATED IN THE LAW to know all the bases that had to be covered.  We get impressions throughout that Paulus coached and directed these three on what to do and say.  Paulus is in this very deep.
Mos knows it.  We heard Mos say that the father is involved one way or another.  To me, that means that Paulus is involved...period.


yep
me too  :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on November 30, 2007, 10:13:31 AM
ldstlou - that would also explain why no one has cracked about the location of the body...they may not know. Paulus may not even know if he called someone to "take care of it" That way, they could all pass lie detector tests regarding whether she is alive, and whether or not they know where the body is.....    interesting.

I agree, but I still tend to think paulus was in on hiding Natalee.  The creep was on top of everything from moment one....already thinking of alibis and interogations! He has a criminal mind!! He would have wanted as few people involved as possible, and he would have wanted complete control. He would have had to have known for himself that Natalee was some place where she would never be found to implicate his boy!!

I believe that Paulus was INSTRUMENTAL in hiding Natalee.  J2K were too nervous, too young, too uneducated to carry off something a major as this and to have been undiscovered so long.   This took PLANNING, by a person EDUCATED IN THE LAW to know all the bases that had to be covered.  We get impressions throughout that Paulus coached and directed these three on what to do and say.  Paulus is in this very deep.
Mos knows it.  We heard Mos say that the father is involved one way or another.  To me, that means that Paulus is involved...period.

That is not my point..we all KNOW that Paulus is guilty of helping get rid of Natalee...we all KNOW that she was assaulted by, at the least, Joran and most likley all of the perps....we all KNOW more than the majority of every other human being on the face of the earth what happened to Natalee besides those that did this to her...just KNOWING does not make it happen.  I think if there was really good evidence out there those defense attorneys would be quiet as church mice...KNOWING that their clients are screwed to hell. They would be running down the back channels in order to make a deal with the prosecution. Instead we have Joe T. going nuts all the time...he knows what his limits are and he walks that fine line, but he doesn't cross it...the Kalpoe attorneys just saying things like it's nothing, there is nothing new...it's all old stuff.  Now, we hear the problem could be in the interpretation...heck we have even had that same problem on here trying to decide what someone meant as opposed to what they actually said after translations. The longer this continues, the more antsy I become and the less likely for a good resolution.  Mos doesn't want it to end this way...it just will, because the perfect crime may just have been committed with the aid of ALE and the inept Dutch.  I so want to be wrong...I would love nothing better than to say you guys are right and Robots really, really was right all along. Sorry, to be the lone voice crying in the wilderness today...I will slink back to the corner and be quiet.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 10:17:55 AM
ldstlou - that would also explain why no one has cracked about the location of the body...they may not know. Paulus may not even know if he called someone to "take care of it" That way, they could all pass lie detector tests regarding whether she is alive, and whether or not they know where the body is.....    interesting.

I agree, but I still tend to think paulus was in on hiding Natalee.  The creep was on top of everything from moment one....already thinking of alibis and interogations! He has a criminal mind!! He would have wanted as few people involved as possible, and he would have wanted complete control. He would have had to have known for himself that Natalee was some place where she would never be found to implicate his boy!!

I believe that Paulus was INSTRUMENTAL in hiding Natalee.  J2K were too nervous, too young, too uneducated to carry off something a major as this and to have been undiscovered so long.   This took PLANNING, by a person EDUCATED IN THE LAW to know all the bases that had to be covered.  We get impressions throughout that Paulus coached and directed these three on what to do and say.  Paulus is in this very deep.
Mos knows it.  We heard Mos say that the father is involved one way or another.  To me, that means that Paulus is involved...period.

That is not my point..we all KNOW that Paulus is guilty of helping get rid of Natalee...we all KNOW that she was assaulted by, at the least, Joran and most likley all of the perps....we all KNOW more than the majority of every other human being on the face of the earth what happened to Natalee besides those that did this to her...just KNOWING does not make it happen.  I think if there was really good evidence out there those defense attorneys would be quiet as church mice...KNOWING that their clients are screwed to hell. They would be running down the back channels in order to make a deal with the prosecution. Instead we have Joe T. going nuts all the time...he knows what his limits are and he walks that fine line, but he doesn't cross it...the Kalpoe attorneys just saying things like it's nothing, there is nothing new...it's all old stuff.  Now, we hear the problem could be in the interpretation...heck we have even had that same problem on here trying to decide what someone meant as opposed to what they actually said after translations. The longer this continues, the more antsy I become and the less likely for a good resolution.  Mos doesn't want it to end this way...it just will, because the perfect crime may just have been committed with the aid of ALE and the inept Dutch.  I so want to be wrong...I would love nothing better than to say you guys are right and Robots really, really was right all along. Sorry, to be the lone voice crying in the wilderness today...I will slink back to the corner and be quiet.
no need to slink  :cool:
your opinions and thoughts are reasonable because of the BULLCRAP put on by the ALE
and others

Mos is the Boss

he has paulus in the cross hairs

the hammer is cocked

he is about to pull the trigger

 :lol:




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Dayhiker on November 30, 2007, 10:19:39 AM

Good morning!  You're not the only one who's worried, LaLa. I feel the same way.  If the decision today is to let the 2K go, I'll be convinced it's the same old same old and the whole thing is another show and they're just going to do the same coverup as two years ago.

If they keep them, my optimism will firm up a little bit....  Today's an important day IMO.


If the judge lets the Kalpoes go free today it will be a huge warning sign that this is all bluster, unless the brothers have flipped on the Sloots. This decision should tell us something.

BTW, the defense lawyers are pissed about a lot of the testimony being old. What they are'nt telling you is that it is really is  convicting testimony, they just never had to face it in court before.  :wink:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 10:21:06 AM

Good morning!  You're not the only one who's worried, LaLa. I feel the same way.  If the decision today is to let the 2K go, I'll be convinced it's the same old same old and the whole thing is another show and they're just going to do the same coverup as two years ago.

If they keep them, my optimism will firm up a little bit....  Today's an important day IMO.


If the judge lets the Kalpoes go free today it will be a huge warning sign that this is all bluster, unless the brothers have flipped on the Sloots. This decision should tell us something.

BTW, the defense lawyers are pissed about a lot of the testimony being old. What they are'nt telling you is that it is really is  convicting testimony, they just never had to face it in court before.  :wink:



BINGO !!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Stella on November 30, 2007, 10:23:48 AM



Mos is the Boss




What a great mantra!!!!  I'll be muttering it under my breath all day.  Thanks, Robots!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 10:30:27 AM



Mos is the Boss




What a great mantra!!!!  I'll be muttering it under my breath all day.  Thanks, Robots!


 :wink:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 10:37:09 AM
NOTICE:  Jossy will be on Dana Pretzer tonight.  I've created a thread for you to let Dana know what questions you would like JOSSY to answer.  Please post your questions in this thread and I'll forward to Dana prior to the show!

QUESTIONS FOR JOSSY


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2404.0


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: igsigs on November 30, 2007, 10:41:17 AM
Mos said be patient - and let these few weeks play out.

J2K not being cooperative was expected, but eventually they must respond to the new evidence.

If they respond during interrogations - their answers must be reasonable or else they will be charged.

If they choose to not respond during interrogations - they will be charged.

EOM IMO H/T - Hans   :arrow:



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BTgirl on November 30, 2007, 10:44:54 AM
God, or whatever you choose to call the creative force behind the universe, is more powerful than all the world's bad guys put together.

Have faith, monkeys.  :smt052


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 30, 2007, 10:45:22 AM
i still say PUKE boy was driving a vehicle that night

remember when k2 were talking about a flat tire and it was jorans idea according to K2 ( that whole story)

see, the excuse for joran having to drive that night was because his buddies broke down and joran had to go to the rescue to help them (like meathead would even know how to change a tire"

MORE BULL CRAP

i can see it
i can smell it

it stinks like paulus and joran

Robots is dead on about Joran driving that night. If you go back and read the Depak interrogations you'll see the ALE asking Depak numerous times if Joran knows how to drive. The ALE knew the Sloot jeep or whatever it is was out and about the night Natalee disappeared.
I don't think initially Paulus was aware that Joran had taken the jeep out that night.When Paulus did find out he changed his story. Instead of maintaining he slept all night all of a sudden he confesses he picked up Joran and Natalee that night. He did this because he realized there could be evidence that Natalee had been in the jeep and if the ALE found it the story line he and J2K were holding to would fall apart. As I recall his (paulus) final statement about the jeep being out at night was he picked them up in the jeep at 4 AM which is about the time Joran would be out hiding Natalee. (Shortly after looking up overdose info on the internet at home.) By saying he picked them up, he covered the possibility of the ALE asking how come they found evidence of Natalee having been in the jeep.
I don't think Natalee was ever at the Sloot compound, but she was in that jeep.

Ado

I so agree with you, that I do not believe Natalee was at the Sloot compound or the beach (in a conscious state), maybe unconscious or deceased, but not in a live state.  I did hear it said that Joran was spotted driving that night by someone whose credibility was questionable, but no one else ever mentioned it and when I asked if he was driving the karpool's car, it was never answered.  Credibility gap there, but it was brought up nonetheless.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Leslie on November 30, 2007, 10:47:46 AM
File this under useless information.  Years ago, I was searching the internet for king-dingiling - one of Joran's names for himself and saw it was an e-bay user's moniker:

http://feedback.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=king-dingiling&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller&item=-1&de=off&items=-1

I visited the the link from time to time and saw that one of the purchases by king-dingiling was a set of furry handcuffs (a sex aid)
Today I visited:

http://joranvandersloot.spaces.live.com/default.aspx?mkt=en-CA&partner=Live.Spaces

and snooped through his photo album, entitled Aruba, and noticed that picture 18 shows two women hugging (Lin and Alinetje) with the female on the left dangling something from her arm that looks like furry handcuffs.  It could be conjecture but it made me chuckle.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: adoronron on November 30, 2007, 10:53:29 AM

Good morning!  You're not the only one who's worried, LaLa. I feel the same way.  If the decision today is to let the 2K go, I'll be convinced it's the same old same old and the whole thing is another show and they're just going to do the same coverup as two years ago.

If they keep them, my optimism will firm up a little bit....  Today's an important day IMO.


If the judge lets the Kalpoes go free today it will be a huge warning sign that this is all bluster, unless the brothers have flipped on the Sloots. This decision should tell us something.

BTW, the defense lawyers are pissed about a lot of the testimony being old. What they are'nt telling you is that it is really is  convicting testimony, they just never had to face it in court before.  :wink:


Don't be concerned with what the lawyers are spewing. It's all a ploy by them to get MOS to disclose more evidence. They want MOS to react and disclose his silver bullet. He doesn't need to react to them nor will he. MOS knows when he will pull the trigger and no one is going to entice him to pull it early.
This time around we don't have half the police force talking to the media. We don't have the tourism reps spouting off. We don't have prosecutor office personnel (except MOS) talking to the media. We don't have Paulus and Anita speaking to the media. We basically have just lawyers trying their damnest to pick MOS's brain.
By the way, anyone know how much money Aruba has asked the Dutch for to fix their financial situation?

Ado


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 10:55:57 AM
File this under useless information.  Years ago, I was searching the internet for king-dingiling - one of Joran's names for himself and saw it was an e-bay user's moniker:

http://feedback.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=king-dingiling&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller&item=-1&de=off&items=-1

I visited the the link from time to time and saw that one of the purchases by king-dingiling was a set of furry handcuffs (a sex aid)
Today I visited:

http://joranvandersloot.spaces.live.com/default.aspx?mkt=en-CA&partner=Live.Spaces

and snooped through his photo album, entitled Aruba, and noticed that picture 18 shows two women hugging (Lin and Alinetje) with the female on the left dangling something from her arm that looks like furry handcuffs.  It could be conjecture but it made me chuckle.

Leslie - lol  :lol:  I can't tell for sure what that furry thing is, might be a purse could be handcuffs.  :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: JusticeforNatalee on November 30, 2007, 10:57:16 AM
Greta posted this on her wire:
Natalee Hollaway’s parents - Beth and Dave - are traveling to Aruba.  They will meet with the Chief Prosecutor tomorrow (Saturday.)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 30, 2007, 10:59:29 AM
Please forgive if this has been posted>>
Government Aruba not in agreement with statutory law

ORANJESTAD – From a letter from Prime Minister Nelson Oduber (MEP) to the Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende (CDA) and the Antillean Prime Minister Emily de Jongh-Elhage (PAR) it appears that Aruba does not agree with a statutory law for the judicial system and judiciary.   

Oduber writes in the letter that was sent yesterday and that Amigoe has a copy that Aruba prefers a similar regulation as the existing Cooperation Regulation Neth.Antilles and Aruba (SWR).   Aruba deviates with the above from the current negotiations between the Netherlands and the Antilles.   These negotiations are going for quite some time already and it is about what to do with the procedural law and the legal position of the members of the Common Court of Justice and the Public Prosecutor when the Neth.Antilles disintegrates.   

From a note from Justice-minister Rudy Croes (MEP) in April, it didn’t seem at first that Aruba had trouble replacing the SWR with a statute law.  He even mentioned in that note that Aruba would love to see the Common Court move from Curacao to Aruba.  Besides, Aruba is a country for more than two decades and has the necessary experience, was the Aruban argumentation.  Curacao can no longer be considered the main island, because of her number of inhabitants and legal businesses.   

The Aruban government’s desire and argumentation were taken up, but it now appears that Aruba has a problem with a statutory law.  Oduber writes that Aruba will cooperate with St. Maarten and Curacao to guarantee ‘the good administration of justice’ on the BES-islands, because these two countries have already agreed to supply judges from their Courts of First Instance for the BES-islands.  Aruba is of the opinion that it must be possible to put in judges back and forth in all the territories for the court of first instance as well as for the appeal court.   

Oduber emphasizes again in the letter that a two-third majority of the Aruban parliament is needed for amending the Charter for the Kingdom of the Netherlands, which is necessary for a new legal scoop for the judicial power and judiciary.  The relation between Aruba and the Netherlands has cooled off considerably since the dragging conflict about the proceeds from selling Plant NV.  Because of this, the Aruban government refuses to take part in the political negotiations with the Antilles and the Netherlands
http://www.amigoe.com/english/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Port Valerie on November 30, 2007, 11:01:27 AM
God, or whatever you choose to call the creative force behind the universe, is more powerful than all the world's bad guys put together.

Have faith, monkeys.  :smt052

Yes.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: chelebele on November 30, 2007, 11:02:32 AM
File this under useless information.  Years ago, I was searching the internet for king-dingiling - one of Joran's names for himself and saw it was an e-bay user's moniker:

http://feedback.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=king-dingiling&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller&item=-1&de=off&items=-1

I visited the the link from time to time and saw that one of the purchases by king-dingiling was a set of furry handcuffs (a sex aid)
Today I visited:

http://joranvandersloot.spaces.live.com/default.aspx?mkt=en-CA&partner=Live.Spaces

and snooped through his photo album, entitled Aruba, and noticed that picture 18 shows two women hugging (Lin and Alinetje) with the female on the left dangling something from her arm that looks like furry handcuffs.  It could be conjecture but it made me chuckle.

Did you notice his horoscope on his page for today?

Expect to be in a provocative mood today, dear Aries. For the past few days, you may have been searching for an outlet for the overflow of energy you're so lucky to have. You'll have an opportunity today, as innovative projects are likely to come your way. If you face your demons head-on, you'll find a unique opportunity to rid yourself of the taboos or fears you've been carrying around for so long.

How fitting.....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 30, 2007, 11:04:50 AM
Okay, I should not post after a trip to the bar (COWBOY victory by the way).
WE are all on the right side here. If you have faith in a higher power -- have faith that we will see justice and truth.


I have faith and I'm feeling confident!

Why am I the only one here that feels worried about all this?  I am so afraid that they won't find her and I don't think Mos has the goods and it's all a trick to get someone to slip up and talk. Gosh!  I don't know how this family has been able to ride this roller coaster so many times.

Sorry, morning monkeys!

Good morning!  You're not the only one who's worried, LaLa. I feel the same way.  If the decision today is to let the 2K go, I'll be convinced it's the same old same old and the whole thing is another show and they're just going to do the same coverup as two years ago.

If they keep them, my optimism will firm up a little bit....  Today's an important day IMO.

I promised myself I wouldn't be too negative today so I will just make this one comment.  :wink:

I believe the Kalpoes will probably be held another 8 days.  This would make their next court appearance the same time as Joran's.  They will either extend that next court appearance another 16 days or let them free.  If they extend their stay I believe the next appearance would be 23rd or 24th depending on when they start the new count (Not sure how they determine that).  So it will be either a Merry Christmas for the Sloots and Kalpoes or a Happy New Year for Natalee's family because it would hopefully mean that Mos has the evidence he wants and he will determine whether he will prosecute them before December 31st which is the date he set for himself.

Now with that being said when they go to trial I could only wish for a Judge who is not crooked and who rule in favor of those murderers because the main suspects father was friends with the entire judicial system.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 30, 2007, 11:07:01 AM
Lala's, lawyers are like politicians, they rant and rave about anything.  Unfortunately for us, most politicians are lawyers and I think that should be changed in the Constitution that no lawyer can ever be president of the USA.  Anytime you see them carrying on like how good they are and how bad their opponent is, take it with a grain of salt.  Where is Old Fart's salt shaker.  Pour some on Taco's head and hopefully he will be caught in his lies.  He is just trying to draw Mos out, to make Mos divulge something that can be used against Mos and perhaps angling for a mistrial.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Port Valerie on November 30, 2007, 11:10:48 AM
Greta's block today invites comments to answer the question: "What question would you ask Natalee's parents if you were the chief prosecutor?"

Is that backwards or what? :roll:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on November 30, 2007, 11:15:20 AM
I know I am always the Doubting Thomas in this crowd...it's my nature. I have never firmly believed anything until it's right in front of my face.  I can make people think I believe something, but until it happens I still have that nagging little monster sitting on my shoulder telling me I am a fool for trusting the outside world.  The only place I have ever put any faith is in God Almighty...mankind just lets you down.  If the K2 are held again I will have more optimism.  Today will tell us who is in who's back pocket and who has the power on One Happy Island...let it NOT be the Sloots this time.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Port Valerie on November 30, 2007, 11:16:32 AM
Blog, not block. You know what I meant.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on November 30, 2007, 11:17:25 AM
Greta's block today invites comments to answer the question: "What question would you ask Natalee's parents if you were the chief prosecutor?"

Is that backwards or what? :roll:


How about :  "What question would you ask Joran's parents if you were the chief prosecutor?"

I understood Dave and Beth were to meet with Mos to present him with evidence they may have.  As far as what questions the chief prosecutor could ask  Dave and Beth?  I guess he could ask them whom he thought responsible for their daughter's disappearance.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 30, 2007, 11:18:34 AM
Beth's loss, Dave's loss, the loss to the world was great when Natalee died.  She was very focused, and had great aspirations to be a doctor, someone who would have "preserved" life instead of taking life away and disposing . . . . . of any remains . . . . trying to erase that person as they never existed -- that's Joran, K2 and moreover Paulus.  It would be my guess that Paulus encouraged the end result here, even if not being the main participant in disposing of Natalee.  That's the difference in someone who has led a nonproductive life, someone whose own accomplishments are so petty, that he has to put out the light of another.  Remember the old saying about hiding the candle under the bushel barrel --- that is what Paulus tried to do, to hide Natalee's light under the bushel barrel.  Failing to do so, Joe Tacopino (another whose life is about destruction instead of construction), picks up the bushel barrel from Paulus and tries to extinguish Natalee's light, Beth's light and the lightness we bring here.  It is their intention to set us apart, to have us argue -- that is what instigators do, that is what evil people do.  Joe has set himself up to strew seeds of doubt and dissention at SM.  Let's not let him put out our light, as he did Natalee's.  Natalee was so young, so frail and they squashed her like a bug --- she was helpless against these ugly evil men.  Don't let Taco do that to SM.  Let's show him we are bigger than that, and that we are joining with Mos and Tim Miller in bringing about justice for Natalee, so that her parents can bring her home to rest.  She has been alone for a long time with God looking out for her, and now it is time she be brought home so her parents can put her to rest where she is loved, rather than despised by agents of Satan on Aruba.

Won't the victory be much sweeter when we see Mos being applauded as the victor and Taco as the goat.  Can we send Joe a big box of salt with which to season his crow, or should we send him sour grapes because we know there are not enough for what he will be going through then, and we can declare victory over evil, nothing to bring Natalee back to life, but a victory so sweet to see Paulus, Taco, Joran, K2, Julia Renfro, Meddling Relay, Shiddalee and all their ilk soaking in bitter oil.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Frank on November 30, 2007, 11:19:54 AM
I wrote, if I were Hans Mos, I would ask the Holloways (on behalf of the Dutch) for forgiveness...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 11:21:02 AM
I wrote, if I were Hans Mos, I would ask the Holloways (on behalf of the Dutch) for forgiveness...

Perfect response to Greta's rediculous question.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Kimmy53 on November 30, 2007, 11:21:15 AM
Lala's, lawyers are like politicians, they rant and rave about anything.  Unfortunately for us, most politicians are lawyers and I think that should be changed in the Constitution that no lawyer can ever be president of the USA.  Anytime you see them carrying on like how good they are and how bad their opponent is, take it with a grain of salt.  Where is Old Fart's salt shaker.  Pour some on Taco's head and hopefully he will be caught in his lies.  He is just trying to draw Mos out, to make Mos divulge something that can be used against Mos and perhaps angling for a mistrial.

The salt would perhaps dry up some of that oil too!! :lol: :lol:

Seriously, I agree Tyler.  Defense lawyers just think if they throw it out there, people will believe.  Maybe some do, but not us.  Then the lawyers get louder, and their faces turn red and they keep talkin without even taking a breath, You can almost see them popping a vein.  It is their job to cast doubt..  Mos is indeed playing this smart.  Defense lawyers are like - They have nothing - if so prove it and Mos is like -Oh yeah I do - I will in due time...  it is eating them alive. They are like little kids - gimme gimme gimme NOW!  Mos is playing them like a fiddle.  I dare say he is keeping a very close eye on Paulus.  This is slippery slope the perps are on...somebody is gonna slip up.  Pressure is on.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on November 30, 2007, 11:25:02 AM
I wrote, if I were Hans Mos, I would ask the Holloways (on behalf of the Dutch) for forgiveness...

Perfect response to Greta's rediculous question.

 :thumleft:  Good answer.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: MumInOhio on November 30, 2007, 11:29:19 AM
Klaas line 123 Grande spreadsheet rafael solognier..car search

Sorry gotta run

Steve Croes uncles car right?


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/CarSearch1.jpg)


Klaas….Sorry I had to leave yesterday. All I can find on Rufo/Rafael, without going back in the archives. Grande may know if it’s the same person. It is the only car searched that I could find, looking quickly, other than Deepak’s that the Dr Phil lawyer’s request documents on and always wondered why. There has to be a reason Dr Phil’s lawyer’s want those docs. And the only other vehicles I remember any thing on are the van der Sloots and Guido’s ATV. Put *******’s post in there to remind us that we don’t know for sure that it is the same person.
 

Rufo Solognier - retired Aruban "police" officer, uncle to Steve Croes

Good question..I know Steve Croes uncle is Rufo Solognier..Same person?…….from *******…lcd…sorry didn’t bring the date June or July 2007

                           

Steve’s uncle lives next door and recall pictures of a truck. IIRC he picked him up from jail in a car and there may have been a video of this. After thinking about this, you only have to look at recent photos of Steve to know he is more involved than the HI lie. He is going downhill fast and by the looks of it finding it really hard to live with himself.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Found this if anyone wants to file away for reference
The concrete work was done by Eloi Fransisco Ruiz IMO, again based on the witness list…..per grande…notice he says IMO

Sorry for being so far behind!










Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 30, 2007, 11:30:48 AM
Good morning Monkeys, a little tidbit from Fox and Friends this morning. They had Kimberly Guilfoyle on and she said she will be having something from Aruba during her show this weekend.  She has some exclusive news is what she said..... ????   Wonder what that is....

Maybe Kimberly Guilfoyle will reveal her sources .....

Janet

+++++++++++++++++


Kimberly Guilfoyle
THE LINEUP
June 9, 2006


Kimberly Guilfoyle: What we do know is that Joran and the Kalpoe brothers were the last people seen with Natalee Holloway, which is the reason why they still remain to this day the main suspects in the case. As for Paulus, sources say he is the person next to Natalie in the casino.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 30, 2007, 11:32:36 AM
Kimmy, I think you and I are on the same thought wave, keeping Paulus out there to fall on his own petard, that's what Mos is doing.  He knows Paulus is going to slip up somewhere and he wants to be there to watch.  It's a great game Mos is playing.  I would like to see him in a chess match against our Sporter boy.  No doubt Sporter boy would be crying for a Bible.  Sporter Boy wants mommy to send him love notes in the Bible.  He wants to watch Fox so he can hear big bad Joe go after anyone who is for justice.  He wants to instruct Joe on how to run Greta's program.  He wants to go to Refugees and solicit contributions to his love fund.  He wants to come to SM so he can see what is going on and what everyone knows or does not know.  I hope he gets a Bible and I hope it haunts him in the dark of night, before and after Bubba comes looking for him for their late night rendezvous.  I hope he finds in himself to admit that his parents are neither omnipotent, invincible, or omnipresent.  I hope he will know in the end, that Mos is omipresent and omniscient when it comes to keeping up with the vdS family.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 11:32:41 AM
Good Morning to all......i haven't read back so if anyone can answer this question...I won't have to go back :shock:

was there anyone who tapped the original Greta show where there was discussion about tacoboy saying one of the k2's returned to the beach..did it ever get cleared that he did say it...or he didn't....thanks


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 30, 2007, 11:32:49 AM
I wrote, if I were Hans Mos, I would ask the Holloways (on behalf of the Dutch) for forgiveness...

Perfect!  Thank you Frank.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Observer on November 30, 2007, 11:33:14 AM
24ora.com

(http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/9168/3020corte20kockxe8.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(Papi Translation)
advocate of kalpoe owing to entama caso contra om friday, 30 november 2007

diahuebs did take lugar one caso hudicial, cu more bien owing to being entama for bufete of david kock & wix, p’e mature cu ministerio publico, after of practicamente 2 year y half, they not can defende one of the rumannan kalpoe. ministerio publico for of week happen end owing to give of conoce, cu defence of rumannan kalpoe not can wordo atendi for one sun advocate y that is why yesterday owing to apela the decision here of ministerio publico. one huez of corsow owing to come for deal the caso here, cu at opinion of advocate mr. david kock, they have to keep kico will become the decision, but the is convenci cu they was much good in corte, argumentando the motibonan pakico they have to follow defende satish y deepak kalpoe. already for today morning huez owing to stay of give his veredicto in the caso of apelacion here. not have one hour fiho stipula for achieve know kico t’e decision of huez, but the have to is first cu the another caso cu advocate mr.david kock owing to entama contra of ministerio publico, relaciona cu detencion of the rumannan kalpoe. thing cu advocate mr. david kock not can end of compronde, t’e urgencia cu ministerio publico had for detene the personanan here. because for of day cu they're deteni, the cantidad of hour cu the team investigativo owing to atende cu they was very limita y not have nothing, but nothing new. relaciona cu the reclamo cu apparently joran van der sloot have, cu the do not achieve oportunidad neither for lucht, look at television etc, advocate mr. david kock owing to tell cu all cos is depende where they're close. at wardanan of police, none detenido not owing to achieve oportunidad of go lucht, corda for look at television or go play ball. come across


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Altruist on November 30, 2007, 11:33:53 AM
There are more scumbag defense attorneys than decent in the world & that goes double for our country of the USA.  The vast majority are the bottom feeders all to make a living, one half step above the guilty scum they represent.  Their job title entitles them to DO or SAY ANYTHING, ESPECIALLY LIE by MISINTERPRETATION OF THE FACTS.  IMO, only 5 % are decent by normal standards & represent those that they truly believe to be innocent.

Hans Mos appears to be an honorable intelligent Prosecutor, their stats IMO are just the opposite of defense attorneys.  Me thinks he is a great poker player.  If the Kalpoes have any intellect in their family at all they will come clean with ALL THEY KNOW, EVERY DIRTY LITTLE DETAIL.  If they don't it is due to their believing that poor excuse of a human being PVDS.  By Hans Mos actions he has clearly indicated to the Kalpoes that he gives them the benefit of the doubt that they are indeed covering for the 2 Slootscum's.

From the beginning this legal system gives the impression to hold empathy for accidents if the TRUTH is submitted to the system.  This time period is being given to the suspects to come clean, if they DON'T then I think the system will be HARSH.

From my memory I believe that 60 days additional holding a suspect is just prior to TRIAL, which we now know JVDS has received.  The Kalpoes have received one of the 8 day extensions, will have another & then they will be heading with JVDS to TRIAL.

Looks like there will be either a February or March 2009 trial of the initial 3 suspects.  Hans Mos is giving every opportunity to the Kalpoes to COME CLEAN before they become CHARGED as every indication is alerting to JVDS.  In my mind he will be charged within the 60 day period that was just handed down to him.

Would find it fitting for Hans Mos to explain in detail that it is very important for Dave & Beth Holloway & their respective family's to follow his direction as to public statements in the future before the Judiciary goes into full steam, in addition to expressing his opinions.  I do hope that Dave & Beth present all they have to him in writing & listen very carefully,  hopefully their representatives have directed them so.  It will be hard, especially due to how they have been treated over the last 2 1/2 years by the corrupt.

Praying for the peace that they all so deserve, especially Natalee.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 11:35:00 AM
Kimmy, I think you and I are on the same thought wave, keeping Paulus out there to fall on his own petard, that's what Mos is doing.  He knows Paulus is going to slip up somewhere and he wants to be there to watch.  It's a great game Mos is playing.  I would like to see him in a chess match against our Sporter boy.  No doubt Sporter boy would be crying for a Bible.  Sporter Boy wants mommy to send him love notes in the Bible.  He wants to watch Fox so he can hear big bad Joe go after anyone who is for justice.  He wants to instruct Joe on how to run Greta's program.  He wants to go to Refugees and solicit contributions to his love fund.  He wants to come to SM so he can see what is going on and what everyone knows or does not know.  I hope he gets a Bible and I hope it haunts him in the dark of night, before and after Bubba comes looking for him for their late night rendezvous.  I hope he finds in himself to admit that his parents are neither omnipotent, invincible, or omnipresent.  I hope he will know in the end, that Mos is omipresent and omniscient when it comes to keeping up with the vdS family.

Tyler you are on a roll this morning...love reading all your posts...I am remaining optimistic that Mos has what he says he has.....and I hope to God Tim et al find Natalee and bring her home


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: snoopy on November 30, 2007, 11:35:09 AM
I wrote, if I were Hans Mos, I would ask the Holloway's (on behalf of the Dutch) for forgiveness...

Exactly!!


IMHO I believe that J2K went to Paulus with Natalee either severely injured or deceased, and that if Natalee wasn't deceased already he allowed her to die by neglect.  He made a choice the same as J2K did.  He is just as guilty of Natalee's demise.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 11:37:12 AM
******* - I think all that 24ora article is really saying is that the decision will come down today and all the PRESS waiting to report on it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 11:39:04 AM
I wrote, if I were Hans Mos, I would ask the Holloway's (on behalf of the Dutch) for forgiveness...

Exactly!!


IMHO I believe that J2K went to Paulus with Natalee either severely injured or deceased, and that if Natalee wasn't deceased already he allowed her to die by neglect.  He made a choice the same as J2K did.  He is just as guilty of Natalee's demise.

Hi Snoopy!!!  I agree


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Frank on November 30, 2007, 11:39:18 AM
The cowardice of men in Aruba is staggering. How is it possible that Nelson Oduber is not interested in meeting with the Holloways?

I'll tell you why, the same reason the yenta Janssen didn't. They can't look them in the eyes because of their guilt.

Cowards of epic proportions.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 30, 2007, 11:40:24 AM
Good Morning to all......i haven't read back so if anyone can answer this question...I won't have to go back :shock:

was there anyone who tapped the original Greta show where there was discussion about tacoboy saying one of the k2's returned to the beach..did it ever get cleared that he did say it...or he didn't....thanks


Sunny ... the following is a video of the interview with Joe Tacopina where he implies that Deepak returned to the beach has been edited.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHmDqS0dOkc


++++++++++++++++++

The following is the transcript of the interview with Joe Tacopina but ... the segment pertaining to Deepak returning to the beach has been edited.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313765,00.html
Joran van der Sloot's Attorney Goes 'On the Record'
Thursday, November 29, 2007


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on November 30, 2007, 11:45:17 AM
Okay, I will stop my negative thoughts...right here...too much enthusiasm with you guys to keep this up...you all know that I want this turn out good for this family.  They not only deserve this...it's now become their right to have justice from all the lying and ugly, hateful, vile words that they have endured.

The Dutch should apologize...they screwed this whole thing up royally and being the wonderful souls that Dave and Beth are...they would find it in their hearts to forgive. Me?  I am not so forgiving... :roll:



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 11:45:40 AM
Good Morning to all......i haven't read back so if anyone can answer this question...I won't have to go back :shock:

was there anyone who tapped the original Greta show where there was discussion about tacoboy saying one of the k2's returned to the beach..did it ever get cleared that he did say it...or he didn't....thanks


Sunny ... the following is a video of the interview with Joe Tacopina where he implies that Deepak returned to the beach has been edited.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHmDqS0dOkc


++++++++++++++++++

The following is the transcript of the interview with Joe Tacopina but ... the segment pertaining to Deepak returning to the beach has been edited.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313765,00.html
Joran van der Sloot's Attorney Goes 'On the Record'
Thursday, November 29, 2007


thanks...so it has been determned that it was indeed edited out??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Frank on November 30, 2007, 11:46:29 AM
Janet,

Can you send to Greta and call her on it?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: JusticeforNatalee on November 30, 2007, 11:46:51 AM
Greta's block today invites comments to answer the question: "What question would you ask Natalee's parents if you were the chief prosecutor?"

Is that backwards or what? :roll:


Yes, it is backward. I also notice that the haters just can't wait to rush
to the wire and post something about Beth or Natalee.
What truly pathetic and sad losers.

I agree with Robots. Mos is the boss.
Positive thoughts, folks.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 11:47:37 AM
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/SUSPECTS_NATALEE_HOLLOWAY/crime/63421

INSIDE POLICE INVESTIGATION: THREE SUSPECTS DUMPED NATALEE HOLLOWAY AT SEA

In a shocking development in the Natalee Holloway case, police believe Joran van der Sloot and his two pals were all with the blonde beauty when she died, The ENQUIRER has learned exclusively.

And they are close to identifying the boat they believe took the Alabama teen to her final resting place.

While others speculated on the new evidence that led to the dramatic Thanksgiving busts of 20-year-old Joran and brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, The ENQUIRER penetrated the top secret investigation.

We learned exclusively that the three suspects were nailed by a young undercover cop who spent months becoming Joran's buddy in Holland. Incriminating evidence was also gathered by phone taps.

"Police now believe they know where Natalee is - at the bottom of the ocean," an Aruban insider told The ENQUIRER.

Natalie, 18, vanished in May 2005 during a graduation trip to Aruba. She was last seen being driven from a popular bar with Joran, Deepak, 24, and Satish, 21.

Joran told police the brothers dropped them off on the beach - and that after he and Natalee made out, he walked home, leaving Natalee alive and well about a half mile from her hotel.

But the phone taps - and details Joran drunkenly let slip to the undercover cop at school - tell a different story, The ENQUIRER has learned.

Pick up the new issue of ENQUIRER for all the details!


Published on: 11/28/2007


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 11:48:33 AM
Mos is the Boss



and paulus knows it

ohhhhhhhhhh... to only be able to hear paulus now..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 11:51:01 AM
prediction

JOE CRAPAPINO


will be IMPLODING today


just watch
it will be worth a lot of laughs    :cool:

 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 30, 2007, 11:52:14 AM
SunnyinTx,

No one, including myself, recalled hearing Joe T mention a Kalpo went back to the beach during that Greta clip.  Others commented that Jossy had said it, and that it was in a Diario or Amigo news article. 

If I'm wrong about this, then I would hope someone will step up and correct me.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 11:53:15 AM
SunnyinTx,

No one, including myself, recalled hearing Joe T mention a Kalpo went back to the beach during that Greta clip.  Others commented that Jossy had said it, and that it was in a Diario or Amigo news article. 

If I'm wrong about this, then I would hope someone will step up and correct me.


i seem to recall hearing it, but it was months ago


 :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Buckeye on November 30, 2007, 11:54:04 AM
SunnyinTx,

No one, including myself, recalled hearing Joe T mention a Kalpo went back to the beach during that Greta clip.  Others commented that Jossy had said it, and that it was in a Diario or Amigo news article. 

If I'm wrong about this, then I would hope someone will step up and correct me.

I watched the broadcast and I did not hear that, either.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 30, 2007, 11:54:07 AM
SunnyinTx,

No one, including myself, recalled hearing Joe T mention a Kalpo went back to the beach during that Greta clip.  Others commented that Jossy had said it, and that it was in a Diario or Amigo news article. 

If I'm wrong about this, then I would hope someone will step up and correct me.

I think it was MsMarple who was first to clarify when this was being discussed.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Sue on November 30, 2007, 11:56:14 AM
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/SUSPECTS_NATALEE_HOLLOWAY/crime/63421

INSIDE POLICE INVESTIGATION: THREE SUSPECTS DUMPED NATALEE HOLLOWAY AT SEA

In a shocking development in the Natalee Holloway case, police believe Joran van der Sloot and his two pals were all with the blonde beauty when she died, The ENQUIRER has learned exclusively.

And they are close to identifying the boat they believe took the Alabama teen to her final resting place.

While others speculated on the new evidence that led to the dramatic Thanksgiving busts of 20-year-old Joran and brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, The ENQUIRER penetrated the top secret investigation.

We learned exclusively that the three suspects were nailed by a young undercover cop who spent months becoming Joran's buddy in Holland. Incriminating evidence was also gathered by phone taps.

"Police now believe they know where Natalee is - at the bottom of the ocean," an Aruban insider told The ENQUIRER.

Natalie, 18, vanished in May 2005 during a graduation trip to Aruba. She was last seen being driven from a popular bar with Joran, Deepak, 24, and Satish, 21.

Joran told police the brothers dropped them off on the beach - and that after he and Natalee made out, he walked home, leaving Natalee alive and well about a half mile from her hotel.

But the phone taps - and details Joran drunkenly let slip to the undercover cop at school - tell a different story, The ENQUIRER has learned.

Pick up the new issue of ENQUIRER for all the details!


Published on: 11/28/2007

well this makes for interesting reading


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 30, 2007, 11:56:53 AM
The cowardice of men in Aruba is staggering. How is it possible that Nelson Oduber is not interested in meeting with the Holloways?

I'll tell you why, the same reason the yenta Janssen didn't. They can't look them in the eyes because of their guilt.

Cowards of epic proportions.

EXCELLENT POST FRANK!! :smt038


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 11:58:15 AM
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/SUSPECTS_NATALEE_HOLLOWAY/crime/63421

INSIDE POLICE INVESTIGATION: THREE SUSPECTS DUMPED NATALEE HOLLOWAY AT SEA

In a shocking development in the Natalee Holloway case, police believe Joran van der Sloot and his two pals were all with the blonde beauty when she died, The ENQUIRER has learned exclusively.

And they are close to identifying the boat they believe took the Alabama teen to her final resting place.

While others speculated on the new evidence that led to the dramatic Thanksgiving busts of 20-year-old Joran and brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, The ENQUIRER penetrated the top secret investigation.

We learned exclusively that the three suspects were nailed by a young undercover cop who spent months becoming Joran's buddy in Holland. Incriminating evidence was also gathered by phone taps.

"Police now believe they know where Natalee is - at the bottom of the ocean," an Aruban insider told The ENQUIRER.

Natalie, 18, vanished in May 2005 during a graduation trip to Aruba. She was last seen being driven from a popular bar with Joran, Deepak, 24, and Satish, 21.

Joran told police the brothers dropped them off on the beach - and that after he and Natalee made out, he walked home, leaving Natalee alive and well about a half mile from her hotel.

But the phone taps - and details Joran drunkenly let slip to the undercover cop at school - tell a different story, The ENQUIRER has learned.

Pick up the new issue of ENQUIRER for all the details!


Published on: 11/28/2007

if this iproves to be true I will buy a subscription to NI ever year until I croak!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 11:59:38 AM
But the phone taps - and details Joran drunkenly let slip to the undercover cop at school - tell a different story,


dumbass


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 12:01:06 PM
SunnyinTx,

No one, including myself, recalled hearing Joe T mention a Kalpo went back to the beach during that Greta clip.  Others commented that Jossy had said it, and that it was in a Diario or Amigo news article. 

If I'm wrong about this, then I would hope someone will step up and correct me.

thanks...I listening that night and didn't hear it....but I'll admit I often only listen to tacoboy with 1/2 an ear....I DID hear him make the statement about the shoe...in a different interview...but not about the beach..I am once again becoming very disillusioned with Greta...she doesn't do the follow up questions.....ggggrrrrrrrrrrrr


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: crazybabyborg on November 30, 2007, 12:01:16 PM
The NE article is very interesting and I hope it's accurate!

Carpe usually puts up the videos of Greta's shows. Wouldn't it be the original version so that we would know if Tacky said Deepak returned to the beach at 3:00?

I didn't hear it. May have just missed it, but the first I became aware of it was on here in Spock's post.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on November 30, 2007, 12:02:24 PM
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/SUSPECTS_NATALEE_HOLLOWAY/crime/63421

INSIDE POLICE INVESTIGATION: THREE SUSPECTS DUMPED NATALEE HOLLOWAY AT SEA

In a shocking development in the Natalee Holloway case, police believe Joran van der Sloot and his two pals were all with the blonde beauty when she died, The ENQUIRER has learned exclusively.

And they are close to identifying the boat they believe took the Alabama teen to her final resting place.

While others speculated on the new evidence that led to the dramatic Thanksgiving busts of 20-year-old Joran and brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, The ENQUIRER penetrated the top secret investigation.

We learned exclusively that the three suspects were nailed by a young undercover cop who spent months becoming Joran's buddy in Holland. Incriminating evidence was also gathered by phone taps.

"Police now believe they know where Natalee is - at the bottom of the ocean," an Aruban insider told The ENQUIRER.

Natalie, 18, vanished in May 2005 during a graduation trip to Aruba. She was last seen being driven from a popular bar with Joran, Deepak, 24, and Satish, 21.

Joran told police the brothers dropped them off on the beach - and that after he and Natalee made out, he walked home, leaving Natalee alive and well about a half mile from her hotel.

But the phone taps - and details Joran drunkenly let slip to the undercover cop at school - tell a different story, The ENQUIRER has learned.

Pick up the new issue of ENQUIRER for all the details!


Published on: 11/28/2007

well this makes for interesting reading


I pray Natalee's final resting place will be back in Alabama and not some place she's been discarded.  I pray Tim Miller and the folks with the ship and equipment can locate Natalee and her family can  then take her home for a decent memorial and burial.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 30, 2007, 12:03:01 PM
Here is msmarple's post regarding the Amigo article.

msmarple
Scared Monkey

 Offline

Posts: 2939



   Re: Natalee Case Discussion #696 11/27 -
« Reply #189 on: November 28, 2007, 05:01:20 AM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.amigoe.com/english/  11/16/2007

This may already have been posted. There is another article in this same issue of Amigoe that I know has been posted - about Renée Gielen's exlusive photos.


Quote
Van der Sloot before the examining magistrate

Joran van der Sloot leaves the airport building of Hato via a side staircase, after a stopover from the Netherlands to Aruba, where he was interrogated during the weekend and was taken before the examining magistrate today.  The reason for the stopover in Curacao was to sidetrack the media in Aruba, which included almost all the American broadcasting stations and several from the Netherlands. {this was a photo caption.}

ORANJESTAD -- Joran van der Sloot (20) was interrogated this past weekend by Dutch and Aruban detectives under the direction of the Aruban chief of police Adolpho ‘Dolphi’ Richardson and one from Rotterdam.   

The examining magistrate heard Van der Sloot, who is suspected of manslaughter or serious body harm that resulted in the death of the American Natalee Holloway, this afternoon about extending the custody with eight days.  “We will definitely continue interrogating him in the next days”, said district attorney Dop Kruimel.  “Keeping him in custody is to get further down into the investigation.  This afternoon after 15:00, we will publish a press release about bringing Van der Sloot before the examining magistrate.”  This was after this paper went to press.   

Van der Sloot’s lawyers’ firm expects the custody to be automatically extended.  Bringing him before the law seems more like a formality, because in the procedure to get him in Aruba, the examining magistrate must have already examined all the documents; ‘kind of too late in the day”, said a representative of the firm.  The lawyers of the suspected brothers Deepak and Satish as well as that of Joran van der Sloot are still saying that they do not expect much of the ‘new evidence’ of the Public Prosecutor (OM): ‘The old information has been examined with new eyes’; ‘they have the same facts, but they have used a different pair of glasses’; and ‘like a shirt with four buttons instead of three’.   

One thing is for sure, the media interest is increasing in Aruba, but not with the same proportions an a few years ago, right after Holloway disappeared in May of 2005.  So now and then you can see camera teams in front of the office of the OM and the house of Van der Sloot’s family.     

Nobody wants to miss a glimpse when more is announced about the new evidence in the disappearance case of Natalee Holloway.  There are meanwhile rumours about the arrival of journalist Greta van Susteren of Fox News.  She was in Aruba just recently promoting the book of Natalee’s mother, Beth Twitty, who will probably come to Aruba this week.   International media is trying to get in contact with Aruba Tourism Authority (ATA), but in vain.  They want to know whether the ‘reopening’ of the case has influenced the tourism.   

‘HAVE DRUGGED GIRLS BEFORE’

The suspects in the Holloway-case have supposedly drugged girls before, so they could take advantage of them afterwards, mentions De Telegraaf.   This same morning paper also mentions that ‘justice has given the former investigation leader a hard rap on the fingers’ and he is no longer allowed to say anything about the investigation.  “Police officer Gerard Dompig suggested that infiltrators were put in against Van der Sloot.”

Not just the Netherlands, but the entire world is following this case.  Each possible indication is therefore used to make an issue from.  Former district attorney Helen Lejeuz, who as a lawyer helps Natalee’s mother, Beth Holloway, told ABC that the suspects thought that their phones are no longer being tapped.  “It has been a long time and people tend to relax and perhaps talk – say things they have never said before – and prosecutors and policemen have good and well-trained ears.”

CBS News mentions a telephone tap, indicating that one of the brothers have gone back to the beach the night Holloway disappeared.
Where, oh where, did the idea that Beth was on her way to Aruba originate? (Or for that matter, that Dave was - I've also seen that mentioned.) Can't imagine either of them being present at this time.

Here is the CBS report "indicating that one of the brothers have gone back to the beach the night Holloway disappeared" --http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=3539137n?source=search_video

To pick up Joran? To get his shoes? Or just more shape shifting?

 
 
 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 30, 2007, 12:03:07 PM
Good Morning to all......i haven't read back so if anyone can answer this question...I won't have to go back :shock:

was there anyone who tapped the original Greta show where there was discussion about tacoboy saying one of the k2's returned to the beach..did it ever get cleared that he did say it...or he didn't....thanks


Sunny ... the following is a video of the interview with Joe Tacopina where he implies that Deepak returned to the beach has been edited.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHmDqS0dOkc


++++++++++++++++++

The following is the transcript of the interview with Joe Tacopina but ... the segment pertaining to Deepak returning to the beach has been edited.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313765,00.html
Joran van der Sloot's Attorney Goes 'On the Record'
Thursday, November 29, 2007


thanks...so it has been determned that it was indeed edited out??

Sunny ... I have not listen to the video but ... it is my understanding from the dialogue yesterday that the video has not been edited ... just the transcript.

Janet

++++++++++++


Greta has edited the Fox transcript.

Tacopino said directly: "the homes were bugged and one of the Kalpoe brothers was taped admitting he had returned later to the beach that night"

I think this edit was made because the attorneys are forbidden by the Judge to discuss the nature of the new evidence.

Watch between 5:00 and 5:30 minutes into the tape:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHmDqS0dOkc


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 30, 2007, 12:03:22 PM
SunnyinTx,

No one, including myself, recalled hearing Joe T mention a Kalpo went back to the beach during that Greta clip.  Others commented that Jossy had said it, and that it was in a Diario or Amigo news article. 

If I'm wrong about this, then I would hope someone will step up and correct me.

I agree.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 12:04:41 PM
did Tony ever comes back and clarify his statement???


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: mishy on November 30, 2007, 12:04:58 PM



I pray Natalee's final resting place will be back in Alabama and not some place she's been discarded.  I pray Tim Miller and the folks with the ship and equipment can locate Natalee and her family can  then take her home for a decent memorial and burial.

These are my fervent prayers as well, MuffyBee...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 12:05:47 PM
at 5:22 CRAPOPINA says "they have some _____________________________"

then he changes GEARS


hmmmmmmmmmmm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on November 30, 2007, 12:07:45 PM
Please delete if this has been previously posted:
Locals to assist in Holloway search
Deep water surveyors head to Aruba today

Bob Moser
bmoser@theadvertiser.com
A team of deep water surveyors from Acadiana is on its way to Aruba today to scan the ocean floor for the body of an Alabama girl who went more than missing two years ago.

It's a volunteer effort that will cost more than $1 million and hopefully bring closure to the search for Natalee Holloway.
Louis Schaefer, a Houston resident and former president of Superior Offshore International in Lafayette, has organized the team and is covering much of the costs himself. Marine Surveys of Lafayette, a sister company of the Silvetti Group, is donating its 120-foot research vessel, the Persistence. It should have left late Thursday night from the Port of Iberia with Schaefer and a team of marine geologists and archaeologists.
The Persistence should arrive in Aruba on Thursday or Friday of next week, and is expected to stay there and use sonar to map the sea floor in search for anomalies, which investigators now say could be where Holloway's body was dropped, said Marc Broussard, project manager with Marine Surveys.

"Louis Schaefer approached us with the idea to assist, and after meeting the family we understood someone had to step up," Broussard said. "We are all parents here, we want to help these people. Their biggest wish is to have a funeral for their daughter, and we want to rectify that in their life. As a parent, that's the most important thing, to get some closure."

Schaefer told Fox News Channel's Greta Van Susteren that investigators now believe Holloway's body may have been placed in a crab trap and dropped in a deep ocean trench off Aruba's coast. The good thing, he said, is the water temperature there would preserve her remains, and there's less ocean life that deep to disturb the body.

The R/V Persistence can map 1,000 feet below the water's surface, and detect items as small as a crab trap.

"We will be there till we reach a happy conclusion, or we've mapped out all the area," Broussard said.

http://www.theadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071130/NEWS01/711300308/1002


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 30, 2007, 12:08:34 PM
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/SUSPECTS_NATALEE_HOLLOWAY/crime/63421

INSIDE POLICE INVESTIGATION: THREE SUSPECTS DUMPED NATALEE HOLLOWAY AT SEA

In a shocking development in the Natalee Holloway case, police believe Joran van der Sloot and his two pals were all with the blonde beauty when she died, The ENQUIRER has learned exclusively.

And they are close to identifying the boat they believe took the Alabama teen to her final resting place.

While others speculated on the new evidence that led to the dramatic Thanksgiving busts of 20-year-old Joran and brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, The ENQUIRER penetrated the top secret investigation.

We learned exclusively that the three suspects were nailed by a young undercover cop who spent months becoming Joran's buddy in Holland. Incriminating evidence was also gathered by phone taps.

"Police now believe they know where Natalee is - at the bottom of the ocean," an Aruban insider told The ENQUIRER.

Natalie, 18, vanished in May 2005 during a graduation trip to Aruba. She was last seen being driven from a popular bar with Joran, Deepak, 24, and Satish, 21.

Joran told police the brothers dropped them off on the beach - and that after he and Natalee made out, he walked home, leaving Natalee alive and well about a half mile from her hotel.

But the phone taps - and details Joran drunkenly let slip to the undercover cop at school - tell a different story, The ENQUIRER has learned.

Pick up the new issue of ENQUIRER for all the details!


Published on: 11/28/2007

I was going to ask if anyone remembers Jouson?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: memphis on November 30, 2007, 12:09:39 PM
WARNING: post on the negative side coming ... :wink:

Many of you say that there will be a positive outcome because the Dutch, or Mos, will not risk the public outcry that will insue if they let J2K go. However, the MSM does not seem to be aware of the coverup and corruption. We, here on the internet, and the family are very aware of it, of course, but is anyone else? If they let them go and close the case, will the outcry be enough? Can we "cry out" enough to make a difference?

Please, someone make me feel better.  :-?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 12:09:53 PM



I pray Natalee's final resting place will be back in Alabama and not some place she's been discarded.  I pray Tim Miller and the folks with the ship and equipment can locate Natalee and her family can  then take her home for a decent memorial and burial.

hi Muffy...your prayer is echoed by all of us


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: the big hammer on November 30, 2007, 12:10:13 PM
National Enquirer

This publication, widely derided as gossip rag, actually published some details of the case that were accurate, but generally unknown by most prior to publication.  Such as Werner's talk at ISA, and the details of their behavior in the car with DVD's and porn.  They also published the story of the Netherland's reporter (Can I bite you?) that was never refuted.

I find it interesting that young police officer undercover is cited as source of infiltration.  No better way, and nor more reliable method.  Wonder if he was wired for sound?  I'd bet he was.

And that true to form for narcisstic personality with AOD pathologies, joran blabs and boasts during drunken episode.  Instead of writing book and drunken talk, he did not and could not lie low and shut up.

Ha!

I thought he could drink a case of beer before he got drunk.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Magnolia on November 30, 2007, 12:10:41 PM
Just reported on ABC 33/40 Birmingham.
Has Mos was suppose to hold a news conference at 11:00 this morning
Aruban time to discuss yesterday's rulings.
News Conference was unexpectly cancelled at the last minute.
Unofficial word is that one of the Kalpoes will be released today.
Also that Dave and Beth will be arriving on Aruba later today to
meet with Mos tomorrow.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 12:12:44 PM
if K2 are released - could be the best news we hear all day


know what i mean ?? :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 12:14:14 PM
Just reported on ABC 33/40 Birmingham.
Has Mos was suppose to hold a news conference at 11:00 this morning
Aruban time to discuss yesterday's rulings.
News Conference was unexpectly cancelled at the last minute.
Unofficial word is that one of the Kalpoes will be released today.
Also that Dave and Beth will be arriving on Aruba later today to
meet with Mos tomorrow.

Maybe I'll get my PVDS wish?

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Sweatyrunningman-new2-1.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on November 30, 2007, 12:15:24 PM
WARNING: post on the negative side coming ... :wink:

Many of you say that there will be a positive outcome because the Dutch, or Mos, will not risk the public outcry that will insue if they let J2K go. However, the MSM does not seem to be aware of the coverup and corruption. We, here on the internet, and the family are very aware of it, of course, but is anyone else? If they let them go and close the case, will the outcry be enough? Can we "cry out" enough to make a difference?

Please, someone make me feel better.  :-?


Memphis
~  Look at what I posted about the deep water search, on this page.  There are people that BELIEVE and are putting their time and considerable resources in an effort to bring Natalee home.  Don't despair...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 12:16:06 PM
Just reported on ABC 33/40 Birmingham.
Has Mos was suppose to hold a news conference at 11:00 this morning
Aruban time to discuss yesterday's rulings.
News Conference was unexpectly cancelled at the last minute.
Unofficial word is that one of the Kalpoes will be released today.
Also that Dave and Beth will be arriving on Aruba later today to
meet with Mos tomorrow.

Maybe I'll get my PVDS wish?

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Sweatyrunningman-new2-1.gif)
:wink:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on November 30, 2007, 12:16:29 PM
if K2 are released - could be the best news we hear all day


know what i mean ?? :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:


 :2thinky:  Could be a good thing...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on November 30, 2007, 12:16:34 PM
Memphis
I don't know if all of us will be enough..I will say this...I have been amazed at what truly dedicated people can and will do for something they believe in.  It only takes a spark..I want to be positive. 

Beth said at her book signing in Birmingham in response to a question about her still believing that this case could be solved...You always have to have hope..without it life would be unbearable. (paraphrasing only) Still, I doubt she thought what has happened in the last few weeks would actually transpire..so yes, I think there is hope...it's that magic word that requires a leap of faith for all those that believe in it.

As someone told me last night...here, hold my hand we will make it through this together. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 30, 2007, 12:17:38 PM
if K2 are released - could be the best news we hear all day


know what i mean ?? :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Self-preservation is a natural instinct.  If one is released, he has preserved his future and turned the key on Joran and the other; that should in turn, bring about the arrest following weeks of surveillance of Paulus.  We were told parents do not have to testify against their own, but if they have it all from a young policeman, maybe Jouson, do they need the falsehoods of Anita?  I can never forget her cracking the whip in New York and demanding Joran pick up the phone and listen to her, that Paulus sit like a wuss while the fishwife directed the affairs and never will I forget the feeling of sheer ectasy when Bo awarded Joran with the warrants.   :lol:  It's all sweeter this time, because it's "gotcha" this time around.  Where is Nadira?  Screaming for someone to throw away the freezer key?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on November 30, 2007, 12:17:43 PM
Memphis
I don't know if all of us will be enough..I will say this...I have been amazed at what truly dedicated people can and will do for something they believe in.  It only takes a spark..I want to be positive. 

Beth said at her book signing in Birmingham in response to a question about her still believing that this case could be solved...You always have to have hope..without it life would be unbearable. (paraphrasing only) Still, I doubt she thought what has happened in the last few weeks would actually transpire..so yes, I think there is hope...it's that magic word that requires a leap of faith for all those that believe in it.

As someone told me last night...here, hold my hand we will make it through this together.


Yes.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Magnolia on November 30, 2007, 12:18:10 PM
It would be a good thing if Dave and Beth were there to see Sweaty Runny Man arrested.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on November 30, 2007, 12:18:43 PM
if K2 are released - could be the best news we hear all day


know what i mean ?? :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

No, no, no.  How can releasing Satish or Deepak or both  be good?  He was part and parcel to this crap too?  I am missing something again...are you saying he ratted on the other two?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 12:19:09 PM
Here is msmarple's post regarding the Amigo article.

msmarple
Scared Monkey

 Offline

Posts: 2939



   Re: Natalee Case Discussion #696 11/27 -
« Reply #189 on: November 28, 2007, 05:01:20 AM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.amigoe.com/english/  11/16/2007

This may already have been posted. There is another article in this same issue of Amigoe that I know has been posted - about Renée Gielen's exlusive photos.


Quote
Van der Sloot before the examining magistrate

Joran van der Sloot leaves the airport building of Hato via a side staircase, after a stopover from the Netherlands to Aruba, where he was interrogated during the weekend and was taken before the examining magistrate today.  The reason for the stopover in Curacao was to sidetrack the media in Aruba, which included almost all the American broadcasting stations and several from the Netherlands. {this was a photo caption.}

ORANJESTAD -- Joran van der Sloot (20) was interrogated this past weekend by Dutch and Aruban detectives under the direction of the Aruban chief of police Adolpho ‘Dolphi’ Richardson and one from Rotterdam.   

The examining magistrate heard Van der Sloot, who is suspected of manslaughter or serious body harm that resulted in the death of the American Natalee Holloway, this afternoon about extending the custody with eight days.  “We will definitely continue interrogating him in the next days”, said district attorney Dop Kruimel.  “Keeping him in custody is to get further down into the investigation.  This afternoon after 15:00, we will publish a press release about bringing Van der Sloot before the examining magistrate.”  This was after this paper went to press.   

Van der Sloot’s lawyers’ firm expects the custody to be automatically extended.  Bringing him before the law seems more like a formality, because in the procedure to get him in Aruba, the examining magistrate must have already examined all the documents; ‘kind of too late in the day”, said a representative of the firm.  The lawyers of the suspected brothers Deepak and Satish as well as that of Joran van der Sloot are still saying that they do not expect much of the ‘new evidence’ of the Public Prosecutor (OM): ‘The old information has been examined with new eyes’; ‘they have the same facts, but they have used a different pair of glasses’; and ‘like a shirt with four buttons instead of three’.   

One thing is for sure, the media interest is increasing in Aruba, but not with the same proportions an a few years ago, right after Holloway disappeared in May of 2005.  So now and then you can see camera teams in front of the office of the OM and the house of Van der Sloot’s family.     

Nobody wants to miss a glimpse when more is announced about the new evidence in the disappearance case of Natalee Holloway.  There are meanwhile rumours about the arrival of journalist Greta van Susteren of Fox News.  She was in Aruba just recently promoting the book of Natalee’s mother, Beth Twitty, who will probably come to Aruba this week.   International media is trying to get in contact with Aruba Tourism Authority (ATA), but in vain.  They want to know whether the ‘reopening’ of the case has influenced the tourism.   

‘HAVE DRUGGED GIRLS BEFORE’

The suspects in the Holloway-case have supposedly drugged girls before, so they could take advantage of them afterwards, mentions De Telegraaf.   This same morning paper also mentions that ‘justice has given the former investigation leader a hard rap on the fingers’ and he is no longer allowed to say anything about the investigation.  “Police officer Gerard Dompig suggested that infiltrators were put in against Van der Sloot.”

Not just the Netherlands, but the entire world is following this case.  Each possible indication is therefore used to make an issue from.  Former district attorney Helen Lejeuz, who as a lawyer helps Natalee’s mother, Beth Holloway, told ABC that the suspects thought that their phones are no longer being tapped.  “It has been a long time and people tend to relax and perhaps talk – say things they have never said before – and prosecutors and policemen have good and well-trained ears.”

CBS News mentions a telephone tap, indicating that one of the brothers have gone back to the beach the night Holloway disappeared.
Where, oh where, did the idea that Beth was on her way to Aruba originate? (Or for that matter, that Dave was - I've also seen that mentioned.) Can't imagine either of them being present at this time.

Here is the CBS report "indicating that one of the brothers have gone back to the beach the night Holloway disappeared" --http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=3539137n?source=search_video

To pick up Joran? To get his shoes? Or just more shape shifting?

Thanks so much...you are terrific...how you find things so fast is amazing!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 12:20:15 PM
joran and his fat ugly mouth that have been able to weasel out of countless things thru out his life by TELLING LIES has bagged him this time.


he can thank his delicious parents for letting him get away with everything and giving into his daily whining whims probably from the time he was 2 years old

there probably was not an ounce of discipline going on in that house

it appears very obvious from allowing him to drink, rape, gamble, kill animals, throw people off bridges, tell lie after lie, steal money and USE friends when it only was in the benefit of joran

good ridence

NEXT UP

Paulus is arrested  :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 12:20:45 PM
Please delete if this has been previously posted:
Locals to assist in Holloway search
Deep water surveyors head to Aruba today

Bob Moser
bmoser@theadvertiser.com
A team of deep water surveyors from Acadiana is on its way to Aruba today to scan the ocean floor for the body of an Alabama girl who went more than missing two years ago.

It's a volunteer effort that will cost more than $1 million and hopefully bring closure to the search for Natalee Holloway.
Louis Schaefer, a Houston resident and former president of Superior Offshore International in Lafayette, has organized the team and is covering much of the costs himself. Marine Surveys of Lafayette, a sister company of the Silvetti Group, is donating its 120-foot research vessel, the Persistence. It should have left late Thursday night from the Port of Iberia with Schaefer and a team of marine geologists and archaeologists.
The Persistence should arrive in Aruba on Thursday or Friday of next week, and is expected to stay there and use sonar to map the sea floor in search for anomalies, which investigators now say could be where Holloway's body was dropped, said Marc Broussard, project manager with Marine Surveys.

"Louis Schaefer approached us with the idea to assist, and after meeting the family we understood someone had to step up," Broussard said. "We are all parents here, we want to help these people. Their biggest wish is to have a funeral for their daughter, and we want to rectify that in their life. As a parent, that's the most important thing, to get some closure."

Schaefer told Fox News Channel's Greta Van Susteren that investigators now believe Holloway's body may have been placed in a crab trap and dropped in a deep ocean trench off Aruba's coast. The good thing, he said, is the water temperature there would preserve her remains, and there's less ocean life that deep to disturb the body.

The R/V Persistence can map 1,000 feet below the water's surface, and detect items as small as a crab trap.

"We will be there till we reach a happy conclusion, or we've mapped out all the area," Broussard said.

http://www.theadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071130/NEWS01/711300308/1002

thanks Muffy...I had not seen this


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Port Valerie on November 30, 2007, 12:20:47 PM
SunnyinTx,

No one, including myself, recalled hearing Joe T mention a Kalpo went back to the beach during that Greta clip.  Others commented that Jossy had said it, and that it was in a Diario or Amigo news article. 

If I'm wrong about this, then I would hope someone will step up and correct me.

I watched the broadcast and I did not hear that, either.

Ditto.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 12:20:58 PM
if K2 are released - could be the best news we hear all day


know what i mean ?? :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

No, no, no.  How can releasing Satish or Deepak or both  be good?  He was part and parcel to this crap too?  I am missing something again...are you saying he ratted on the other two?

Being released doesn't mean that they won't be charged and go to trial.  Being released COULD mean that they are talking.

That said, it has not been reported that they will be released...only speculation.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 12:21:40 PM
if K2 are released - could be the best news we hear all day


know what i mean ?? :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

No, no, no.  How can releasing Satish or Deepak or both  be good?  He was part and parcel to this crap too?  I am missing something again...are you saying he ratted on the other two?

might be as simple as 1 of the K2 brothers know something and ratted out the others

 :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 12:23:01 PM
Just reported on ABC 33/40 Birmingham.
Has Mos was suppose to hold a news conference at 11:00 this morning
Aruban time to discuss yesterday's rulings.
News Conference was unexpectly cancelled at the last minute.
Unofficial word is that one of the Kalpoes will be released today.
Also that Dave and Beth will be arriving on Aruba later today to
meet with Mos tomorrow.

one of the k2's released?? which one and why...so many questions so few answers...and why was the press conference cancelled??? :shock:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: memphis on November 30, 2007, 12:23:35 PM
Memphis
I don't know if all of us will be enough..I will say this...I have been amazed at what truly dedicated people can and will do for something they believe in.  It only takes a spark..I want to be positive. 

Beth said at her book signing in Birmingham in response to a question about her still believing that this case could be solved...You always have to have hope..without it life would be unbearable. (paraphrasing only) Still, I doubt she thought what has happened in the last few weeks would actually transpire..so yes, I think there is hope...it's that magic word that requires a leap of faith for all those that believe in it.

As someone told me last night...here, hold my hand we will make it through this together.


Yes.


OK.
I can't imagine how Natalee's family is getting through this. I'll be praying for them throughout the day today.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 12:23:59 PM
Just reported on ABC 33/40 Birmingham.
Has Mos was suppose to hold a news conference at 11:00 this morning
Aruban time to discuss yesterday's rulings.
News Conference was unexpectly cancelled at the last minute.
Unofficial word is that one of the Kalpoes will be released today.
Also that Dave and Beth will be arriving on Aruba later today to
meet with Mos tomorrow.

Maybe I'll get my PVDS wish?


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Sweatyrunningman-new2-1.gif)

I hope so Klaas...I really, really do!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 12:24:27 PM
if K2 are released - could be the best news we hear all day


know what i mean ?? :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:


NO??????????


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 12:26:37 PM
if K2 are released - could be the best news we hear all day


know what i mean ?? :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Self-preservation is a natural instinct.  If one is released, he has preserved his future and turned the key on Joran and the other; that should in turn, bring about the arrest following weeks of surveillance of Paulus.  We were told parents do not have to testify against their own, but if they have it all from a young policeman, maybe Jouson, do they need the falsehoods of Anita?  I can never forget her cracking the whip in New York and demanding Joran pick up the phone and listen to her, that Paulus sit like a wuss while the fishwife directed the affairs and never will I forget the feeling of sheer ectasy when Bo awarded Joran with the warrants.   :lol:  It's all sweeter this time, because it's "gotcha" this time around.  Where is Nadira?  Screaming for someone to throw away the freezer key?

I usually agree with your way of thinking...but this time I am not so sure...if one turned....then why in the hell would he be released???


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 12:26:57 PM
FYI - nothing on Greta's blog about a release.  Nothing at RU about a release.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 12:27:08 PM
It would be a good thing if Dave and Beth were there to see Sweaty Runny Man arrested.
[/quote

Absolutely!!!! 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Port Valerie on November 30, 2007, 12:28:54 PM
if K2 are released - could be the best news we hear all day


know what i mean ?? :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:


NO??????????

I didn't get it either. Means what?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 12:29:22 PM
if K2 are released - could be the best news we hear all day


know what i mean ?? :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Self-preservation is a natural instinct.  If one is released, he has preserved his future and turned the key on Joran and the other; that should in turn, bring about the arrest following weeks of surveillance of Paulus.  We were told parents do not have to testify against their own, but if they have it all from a young policeman, maybe Jouson, do they need the falsehoods of Anita?  I can never forget her cracking the whip in New York and demanding Joran pick up the phone and listen to her, that Paulus sit like a wuss while the fishwife directed the affairs and never will I forget the feeling of sheer ectasy when Bo awarded Joran with the warrants.   :lol:  It's all sweeter this time, because it's "gotcha" this time around.  Where is Nadira?  Screaming for someone to throw away the freezer key?

I usually agree with your way of thinking...but this time I am not so sure...if one turned....then why in the hell would he be released???

well, because it is possible that ONLY 1 of the k2 was involved in the actual murder - disappearance and the other simply knows INFO.
the knower of info - if he spills it - would be let go - more than likely




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 12:30:41 PM
if K2 are released - could be the best news we hear all day


know what i mean ?? :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

No, no, no.  How can releasing Satish or Deepak or both  be good?  He was part and parcel to this crap too?  I am missing something again...are you saying he ratted on the other two?

Being released doesn't mean that they won't be charged and go to trial.  Being released COULD mean that they are talking.

That said, it has not been reported that they will be released...only speculation.

OK....I am going to wait for confirmation....but I still can't see letting any of them go...especially if they/he talked...it means he knows and was either a major player or with held evidence...oopppssss that's our legal system ...not necessarily aruba's


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Altruist on November 30, 2007, 12:32:19 PM
Wouldn't it also MAKE SENSE that Hans Mos would want to meet & interview Dave & Beth Holloway as WITNESSES in the future trial?

Remember the video coverage of DK crying his eyes out when he was released from KIA the first time?  That visual has repeated in my minds eye hundreds of times.

Every time I see that horrid visual named JVDS I think of Robert Chambers (the Yuppie Murderer) who served 15 years & again resides in jail as a heroin addict & drug dealer.  Another evil being who found entertainment in the loss of a beautiful young woman.  Those two cut from the same mold & with the same kind of egg donor who brought them forth to perpetrate their evil.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Port Valerie on November 30, 2007, 12:32:46 PM

well, because it is possible that ONLY 1 of the k2 was involved in the actual murder - disappearance and the other simply knows INFO.
the knower of info - if he spills it - would be let go - more than likely


Oh, okay, thanks. Thought you were predicting some street justice or something for the one set free to wander around.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on November 30, 2007, 12:33:09 PM
Release of one of the Kalpoes makes no sense to me.  This one would have been there when the rape took place and would know something...doesn't relieve them of guilt in any way. You don't release them when they are guilty too.  You just make a deal for less time served.  Any release to me is not a good sign...where is everyone getting this idea that it is a good thing?  :roll: :roll:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 12:33:10 PM
FYI - nothing on Greta's blog about a release.  Nothing at RU about a release.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 12:33:41 PM
if K2 are released - could be the best news we hear all day


know what i mean ?? :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Self-preservation is a natural instinct.  If one is released, he has preserved his future and turned the key on Joran and the other; that should in turn, bring about the arrest following weeks of surveillance of Paulus.  We were told parents do not have to testify against their own, but if they have it all from a young policeman, maybe Jouson, do they need the falsehoods of Anita?  I can never forget her cracking the whip in New York and demanding Joran pick up the phone and listen to her, that Paulus sit like a wuss while the fishwife directed the affairs and never will I forget the feeling of sheer ectasy when Bo awarded Joran with the warrants.   :lol:  It's all sweeter this time, because it's "gotcha" this time around.  Where is Nadira?  Screaming for someone to throw away the freezer key?

I usually agree with your way of thinking...but this time I am not so sure...if one turned....then why in the hell would he be released???

well, because it is possible that ONLY 1 of the k2 was involved in the actual murder - disappearance and the other simply knows INFO.
the knower of info - if he spills it - would be let go - more than likely

see that's what I don't understand...letting someone go that KNOWS and has been covering up.....ggggrrrrrrrrr...but I am going to take the high road and then wait for confirmation....if that comes then Lala's better sharpen her pencil cause there will be lots of cussing' fussin' and stomping feet and who nows what else!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 30, 2007, 12:34:39 PM
if K2 are released - could be the best news we hear all day


know what i mean ?? :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

No, no, no.  How can releasing Satish or Deepak or both  be good?  He was part and parcel to this crap too?  I am missing something again...are you saying he ratted on the other two?

Being released doesn't mean that they won't be charged and go to trial.  Being released COULD mean that they are talking.

That said, it has not been reported that they will be released...only speculation.

OK....I am going to wait for confirmation....but I still can't see letting any of them go...especially if they/he talked...it means he knows and was either a major player or with held evidence...oopppssss that's our legal system ...not necessarily aruba's

Turning evidence on a guilty player by another less guilty player has always meant a lighter sentence or in some cases, a get-of-jail-free card.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 12:35:40 PM
Wouldn't it also MAKE SENSE that Hans Mos would want to meet & interview Dave & Beth Holloway as WITNESSES in the future trial?

Remember the video coverage of DK crying his eyes out when he was released from KIA the first time?  That visual has repeated in my minds eye hundreds of times.

Every time I see that horrid visual named JVDS I think of Robert Chambers (the Yuppie Murderer) who served 15 years & again resides in jail as a heroin addict & drug dealer.  Another evil being who found entertainment in the loss of a beautiful young woman.  Those two cut from the same mold & with the same kind of egg donor who brought them forth to perpetrate their evil.

would LOVE to see that posted??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 12:35:53 PM
if K2 are released - could be the best news we hear all day


know what i mean ?? :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

No, no, no.  How can releasing Satish or Deepak or both  be good?  He was part and parcel to this crap too?  I am missing something again...are you saying he ratted on the other two?

Being released doesn't mean that they won't be charged and go to trial.  Being released COULD mean that they are talking.

That said, it has not been reported that they will be released...only speculation.


no way, i dont agree one bit.  If they are talking there is no way they would be released.  if they are talking, they are giving the prosecution more evidence to hold them with

There is only 2 ways they are released
1) not enough evidence
2) corrupt judge

either way, if they are released, its all over.  Joran will shortly follow and unless a body is found - no chance of going forward witht his case


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 12:36:31 PM
FYI - nothing on Greta's blog about a release.  Nothing at RU about a release.

thanks for the reminder....whew...I am going to go get some coffee


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 12:37:49 PM
im not saying it will happen
just saying this may be a possible reason IF there is a release



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 30, 2007, 12:38:48 PM
did Tony ever comes back and clarify his statement???


No Sunny. I have been looking in the picture sites for Steve Croes DJ'ing since Tony posted that, but have not seen anything of Steve at work. I have no clue.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 30, 2007, 12:39:34 PM
I always had the feeling that Paulus had convinced Deepak that given his "adult" status (age) and being the official owner of the car, that he would be more responsible for having drugs, alcohol, underaged passengers and whatever transpired than even the perpetrator himself, and had coerced Deepak into believing that he and Joran were his last great white hope.  I am of the opinion and I am probably 180 degrees from right, that Deepak was home and he was called upon to make some calls, possibly to Steve Croes and to those "automotive enterprising" people.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Sue on November 30, 2007, 12:39:42 PM


Ok watched Greta/Joe Interview sounds like Joe is dancing around
answer to whether the boys were recorded after april 2007
but also my question.. Are the dutch going to let him in court?
i dont know what Joe thinks he can accomplish


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 30, 2007, 12:39:56 PM
If someone turns on another and that person is released....I sure hope they are released into protective custody. If not, we will see yet another suicide by hanging w/ one hand in pocket.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Magnolia on November 30, 2007, 12:40:38 PM
 This was the latest report:
It is the Kalpoe lawyers that said one or both of them may be
released.  The judge has until 4:30 tomorrow to make that decision.
The reporter says that things have suddenly gotten confusing.
Kalpoe lawyers are talking.
Mos has been quiet since yesterday.  Mos has a PR person!
Mos may make a statement later today.
Reporter has no idea why the news conference was canceled.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 12:41:54 PM
If someone turns on another and that person is released....I sure hope they are released into protective custody. If not, we will see yet another suicide by hanging w/ one hand in pocket.

at this point, i think that could be considered partial justice :wink:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 12:42:48 PM
did Tony ever comes back and clarify his statement???


No Sunny. I have been looking in the picture sites for Steve Croes DJ'ing since Tony posted that, but have not seen anything of Steve at work. I have no clue.

thanks Nut...so I am assuming that was a prediction by Tony unless we hear differently


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 12:43:21 PM
National Enquirer

This publication, widely derided as gossip rag, actually published some details of the case that were accurate, but generally unknown by most prior to publication.  Such as Werner's talk at ISA, and the details of their behavior in the car with DVD's and porn.  They also published the story of the Netherland's reporter (Can I bite you?) that was never refuted.

I find it interesting that young police officer undercover is cited as source of infiltration.  No better way, and nor more reliable method.  Wonder if he was wired for sound?  I'd bet he was.

And that true to form for narcisstic personality with AOD pathologies, joran blabs and boasts during drunken episode.  Instead of writing book and drunken talk, he did not and could not lie low and shut up.

Ha!

I thought he could drink a case of beer before he got drunk.

.

Must have been that second case of beer that got him, Hammer!  HA!
 :D
.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 12:44:21 PM
This was the latest report:
It is the Kalpoe lawyers that said one or both of them may be
released.  The judge has until 4:30 tomorrow to make that decision.
The reporter says that things have suddenly gotten confusing.
Kalpoe lawyers are talking.
Mos has been quiet since yesterday.  Mos has a PR person!
Mos may make a statement later today.
Reporter has no idea why the news conference was canceled.

WTF!!
first we were told Thurs, then Fri and now tomorrow???

What are they waiting for the bank to transfer the funds into judges account??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 12:44:43 PM
This was the latest report:
It is the Kalpoe lawyers that said one or both of them may be
released.
  The judge has until 4:30 tomorrow to make that decision.
The reporter says that things have suddenly gotten confusing.
Kalpoe lawyers are talking.
Mos has been quiet since yesterday.  Mos has a PR person!
Mos may make a statement later today.
Reporter has no idea why the news conference was canceled.

thanks Magnolia.....that made my blood pressure go down a couple of points..... :shock:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: memphis on November 30, 2007, 12:44:54 PM
This was the latest report:
It is the Kalpoe lawyers that said one or both of them may be
released.  The judge has until 4:30 tomorrow to make that decision.
The reporter says that things have suddenly gotten confusing.
Kalpoe lawyers are talking.
Mos has been quiet since yesterday.  Mos has a PR person!
Mos may make a statement later today.
Reporter has no idea why the news conference was canceled.

CRAP!  :sad:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Port Valerie on November 30, 2007, 12:45:40 PM
This was the latest report:
It is the Kalpoe lawyers that said one or both of them may be
released.  The judge has until 4:30 tomorrow to make that decision.
The reporter says that things have suddenly gotten confusing.
Kalpoe lawyers are talking.
Mos has been quiet since yesterday.  Mos has a PR person!
Mos may make a statement later today.
Reporter has no idea why the news conference was canceled.

WTF!!


first we were told Thurs, then Fri and now tomorrow???

What are they waiting for the bank to transfer the funds into judges account??

I thought judges didn't work on weekends. What is this?





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 30, 2007, 12:45:46 PM
Magnolia, thanks for the news updates....not sure I like what I'm reading, though. :-?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Helen Back on November 30, 2007, 12:46:28 PM
The cowardice of men in Aruba is staggering. How is it possible that Nelson Oduber is not interested in meeting with the Holloways?

I'll tell you why, the same reason the yenta Janssen didn't. They can't look them in the eyes because of their guilt.

Cowards of epic proportions.

EXCELLENT POST FRANK!! :smt038

Good job, Frank.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 30, 2007, 12:46:29 PM
If someone turns on another and that person is released....I sure hope they are released into protective custody. If not, we will see yet another suicide by hanging w/ one hand in pocket.

at this point, i think that could be considered partial justice :wink:

I thought about that, too, Nutt, but I also thought about letting one of them go to see what buzzards started circle what they felt would soon be a corpse.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 12:47:06 PM


Ok watched Greta/Joe Interview sounds like Joe is dancing around
answer to whether the boys were recorded after april 2007
but also my question.. Are the dutch going to let him in court?
i dont know what Joe thinks he can accomplish

I'd love to know the answer as well....I can't imagine him being allowed in an aruban court....the only thing he can/does accomplish IMO is he is a major player in the misinformation train out of aruba....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 30, 2007, 12:47:36 PM
This was the latest report:
It is the Kalpoe lawyers that said one or both of them may be
released.  The judge has until 4:30 tomorrow to make that decision.
The reporter says that things have suddenly gotten confusing.
Kalpoe lawyers are talking.
Mos has been quiet since yesterday.  Mos has a PR person!
Mos may make a statement later today.
Reporter has no idea why the news conference was canceled.

WTF!!
first we were told Thurs, then Fri and now tomorrow???

What are they waiting for the bank to transfer the funds into judges account??

Aren't Dave & Beth expected there, tomorrow?  Just a thought, and I hope that if this factors in, it's staged on a positive note.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 12:48:16 PM
This was the latest report:
It is the Kalpoe lawyers that said one or both of them may be
released
.  The judge has until 4:30 tomorrow to make that decision.
The reporter says that things have suddenly gotten confusing.
Kalpoe lawyers are talking.
Mos has been quiet since yesterday.  Mos has a PR person!
Mos may make a statement later today.
Reporter has no idea why the news conference was canceled.
Like I said, what would you expect the defense attorneys to say?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Buckeye on November 30, 2007, 12:48:18 PM
I always had the feeling that Paulus had convinced Deepak that given his "adult" status (age) and being the official owner of the car, that he would be more responsible for having drugs, alcohol, underaged passengers and whatever transpired than even the perpetrator himself, and had coerced Deepak into believing that he and Joran were his last great white hope.  I am of the opinion and I am probably 180 degrees from right, that Deepak was home and he was called upon to make some calls, possibly to Steve Croes and to those "automotive enterprising" people.

Anita "there were adults there"....the twisting of the knife into the Kalpoes.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 30, 2007, 12:48:26 PM
O/T Klaas...Jef Bryant in missing has been located-safe. Could you mark the subject line please, when you get a minute. TY   :)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Lala'sMom on November 30, 2007, 12:48:55 PM
This was the latest report:
It is the Kalpoe lawyers that said one or both of them may be
released.  The judge has until 4:30 tomorrow to make that decision.
The reporter says that things have suddenly gotten confusing.
Kalpoe lawyers are talking.
Mos has been quiet since yesterday.  Mos has a PR person!
Mos may make a statement later today.
Reporter has no idea why the news conference was canceled.

Guys, that sinking feeling is coming back again...I think I am going to be sick...I have to leave this for a while.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 12:49:06 PM
This was the latest report:
It is the Kalpoe lawyers that said one or both of them may be
released.  The judge has until 4:30 tomorrow to make that decision.
The reporter says that things have suddenly gotten confusing.
Kalpoe lawyers are talking.
Mos has been quiet since yesterday.  Mos has a PR person!
Mos may make a statement later today.
Reporter has no idea why the news conference was canceled.

WTF!!


first we were told Thurs, then Fri and now tomorrow???

What are they waiting for the bank to transfer the funds into judges account??

I thought judges didn't work on weekends. What is this?

i have and will continue to be optomistic...but this is starting to feel a little like de ja vous.....it's scary ...these judges


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 30, 2007, 12:49:25 PM
This was the latest report:
It is the Kalpoe lawyers that said one or both of them may be
released.  The judge has until 4:30 tomorrow to make that decision.
The reporter says that things have suddenly gotten confusing.
Kalpoe lawyers are talking.
Mos has been quiet since yesterday.  Mos has a PR person!
Mos may make a statement later today.
Reporter has no idea why the news conference was canceled.

CRAP!  :sad:

Mohs has gotten quiet, canceled a conference, K2 lawyers talking, Joe Tacopino has been talking nonstop for more than a week; maybe Mos is researching the rules on how he can have an American lawyer arrested who is still on sovereign waters, but who is receiving information from local attorneys who are under gag order.  Maybe he is calling the state department, maybe he is calling the Netherlands, maybe he is just doing this to irritate Paulus, which I suspect is most probable.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 12:50:06 PM
If someone turns on another and that person is released....I sure hope they are released into protective custody. If not, we will see yet another suicide by hanging w/ one hand in pocket.

at this point, i think that could be considered partial justice :wink:

I understand :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 30, 2007, 12:51:01 PM
I need to eat something.  I meant to say someone in sovereign country.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 12:51:36 PM
O/T Klaas...Jef Bryant in missing has been located-safe. Could you mark the subject line please, when you get a minute. TY   :)

thanks for the GOOD NEWS


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Magnolia on November 30, 2007, 12:51:42 PM
Magnolia, thanks for the news updates....not sure I like what I'm reading, though. :-?

I don't like it either, but that is what was reported.  The reporter was live at the
Aruba courthouse.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BTgirl on November 30, 2007, 12:52:58 PM
Mark 9:23 And Jesus said to him, "'If You can?' All things are possible to him who believes."

Mark 11:23 "Truly I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen, it will be granted him."

Have faith, monkeys.  :smt056



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 12:53:32 PM
This was the latest report:
It is the Kalpoe lawyers that said one or both of them may be
released.  The judge has until 4:30 tomorrow to make that decision.
The reporter says that things have suddenly gotten confusing.
Kalpoe lawyers are talking.
Mos has been quiet since yesterday.  Mos has a PR person!
Mos may make a statement later today.
Reporter has no idea why the news conference was canceled.

CRAP!  :sad:

Mohs has gotten quiet, canceled a conference, K2 lawyers talking, Joe Tacopino has been talking nonstop for more than a week; maybe Mos is researching the rules on how he can have an American lawyer arrested who is still on sovereign waters, but who is receiving information from local attorneys who are under gag order.  Maybe he is calling the state department, maybe he is calling the Netherlands, maybe he is just doing this to irritate Paulus, which I suspect is most probable.

too many damn maybe's for me.... :shock: :shock: :shock:  I am going to go meet friends for lunch.....TTYL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 30, 2007, 12:53:33 PM
This was the latest report:
It is the Kalpoe lawyers that said one or both of them may be
released.  The judge has until 4:30 tomorrow to make that decision.
The reporter says that things have suddenly gotten confusing.
Kalpoe lawyers are talking.
Mos has been quiet since yesterday.  Mos has a PR person!
Mos may make a statement later today.
Reporter has no idea why the news conference was canceled.

Guys, that sinking feeling is coming back again...I think I am going to be sick...I have to leave this for a while.

Lala's, I just had a pack of cheese crackers and I still am misspelling words like crazy.  I am going to have some chocolate ice cream.  Grab something you love to eat, like chocolate, and sit back.  This is going to be a bumpy ride, but we are going to land on our feet, I do believe.  He promised me if I have faith the size of a small tiny mustard seed, all I need to do is ask with that faith.  I have asked.  He says there is strength in numbers.  We are all a number but collectively we are a large voice.  Eat a snack, say a prayer, restore your faith and sit back and enjoy the ride albeit bumpy but in the end, it will be such a sweet victory.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 30, 2007, 12:54:34 PM
Mark 9:23 And Jesus said to him, "'If You can?' All things are possible to him who believes."

Mark 11:23 "Truly I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen, it will be granted him."

Have faith, monkeys.  :smt056



Amen, BT.  Amen.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 12:55:51 PM
This was the latest report:
It is the Kalpoe lawyers that said one or both of them may be
released
.  The judge has until 4:30 tomorrow to make that decision.
The reporter says that things have suddenly gotten confusing.
Kalpoe lawyers are talking.
Mos has been quiet since yesterday.  Mos has a PR person!
Mos may make a statement later today.
Reporter has no idea why the news conference was canceled.
Like I said, what would you expect the defense attorneys to say?

This is nothing new.  The Kalpoes attorneys have been saying this all along.  JoeT said that about Joran when he arrived in Aruba and JoeT was WRONG.  Do not listen to the defense attorneys!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Sue on November 30, 2007, 12:56:48 PM


Have we heard If JQK will go to Aruba also?
and  Did Mos invite Dave and Beth down to Aruba to talk
or did they just make decision to go with all the
all the hearings going on?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 12:58:18 PM


Have we heard If JQK will go to Aruba also?
and  Did Mos invite Dave and Beth down to Aruba to talk
or did they just make decision to go with all the
all the hearings going on?

I have no idea


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Magnolia on November 30, 2007, 12:58:32 PM
Mark 9:23 And Jesus said to him, "'If You can?' All things are possible to him who believes."

Mark 11:23 "Truly I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen, it will be granted him."

Have faith, monkeys.  :smt056

I have been thinking for two days:   "If you have faith as a mustard seed,
nothing is impossible to you."




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: GabbyG on November 30, 2007, 01:00:25 PM
ldstlou - that would also explain why no one has cracked about the location of the body...they may not know. Paulus may not even know if he called someone to "take care of it" That way, they could all pass lie detector tests regarding whether she is alive, and whether or not they know where the body is.....    interesting.

I agree, but I still tend to think paulus was in on hiding Natalee.  The creep was on top of everything from moment one....already thinking of alibis and interogations! He has a criminal mind!! He would have wanted as few people involved as possible, and he would have wanted complete control. He would have had to have known for himself that Natalee was some place where she would never be found to implicate his boy!!

I believe that Paulus was INSTRUMENTAL in hiding Natalee.  J2K were too nervous, too young, too uneducated to carry off something a major as this and to have been undiscovered so long.   This took PLANNING, by a person EDUCATED IN THE LAW to know all the bases that had to be covered.  We get impressions throughout that Paulus coached and directed these three on what to do and say.  Paulus is in this very deep.
Mos knows it.  We heard Mos say that the father is involved one way or another.  To me, that means that Paulus is involved...period.

That is not my point..we all KNOW that Paulus is guilty of helping get rid of Natalee...we all KNOW that she was assaulted by, at the least, Joran and most likley all of the perps....we all KNOW more than the majority of every other human being on the face of the earth what happened to Natalee besides those that did this to her...just KNOWING does not make it happen.  I think if there was really good evidence out there those defense attorneys would be quiet as church mice...KNOWING that their clients are screwed to hell. They would be running down the back channels in order to make a deal with the prosecution. Instead we have Joe T. going nuts all the time...he knows what his limits are and he walks that fine line, but he doesn't cross it...the Kalpoe attorneys just saying things like it's nothing, there is nothing new...it's all old stuff.  Now, we hear the problem could be in the interpretation...heck we have even had that same problem on here trying to decide what someone meant as opposed to what they actually said after translations. The longer this continues, the more antsy I become and the less likely for a good resolution.  Mos doesn't want it to end this way...it just will, because the perfect crime may just have been committed with the aid of ALE and the inept Dutch.  I so want to be wrong...I would love nothing better than to say you guys are right and Robots really, really was right all along. Sorry, to be the lone voice crying in the wilderness today...I will slink back to the corner and be quiet.
no need to slink  :cool:
your opinions and thoughts are reasonable because of the BULLCRAP put on by the ALE
and others

Mos is the Boss

he has paulus in the cross hairs

the hammer is cocked

he is about to pull the trigger

 :lol:




I LOVE your new saying robots!!  Mos IS the Boss!!!

Everything will be okay, mos has it under control. He just cant let everything out so soon, all at the same time, it could damage the case he has built against j2k and pvds, and probably others too giving them all he knows so soon. I also think he KNOWS that Tim, Mr. Shaefer and The Perseverence WILL find Natalee's body, which may be what he is trying to hold out for, because that will be the icing on the cake. At that time it will all be over but the paperwork. I feel very safe in believing this. Have faith! At this point we will be disappointed anyway if it doesnt work out, so why not think positive and give Mr Mos credit for going the distance. If he doesnt then we can be disappointed THEN, but no need to yet. This really is a battle of the good against the bad, and I totally believe this time good is gonna win. I think we should be hunting for our pom poms so we can cheer Mr. Mos and the crew of The Perseverence soon!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BTgirl on November 30, 2007, 01:00:54 PM
Mark 9:23 And Jesus said to him, "'If You can?' All things are possible to him who believes."

Mark 11:23 "Truly I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen, it will be granted him."

Have faith, monkeys.  :smt056

I have been thinking for two days:   "If you have faith as a mustard seed,
nothing is impossible to you."



Yep, exactly!  :wink:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 01:05:03 PM
This was the latest report:
It is the Kalpoe lawyers that said one or both of them may be
released
.  The judge has until 4:30 tomorrow to make that decision.
The reporter says that things have suddenly gotten confusing.
Kalpoe lawyers are talking.
Mos has been quiet since yesterday.  Mos has a PR person!
Mos may make a statement later today.
Reporter has no idea why the news conference was canceled.
Like I said, what would you expect the defense attorneys to say?

This is nothing new.  The Kalpoes attorneys have been saying this all along.  JoeT said that about Joran when he arrived in Aruba and JoeT was WRONG.  Do not listen to the defense attorneys!

ALSO - as of right now NOTHING at RU about a release, NOTHING on Greta's blog about a release.

DO NOT listen to the defense attorneys!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: memphis on November 30, 2007, 01:05:54 PM
I think I'm gonna start praying for Hans Mos. If he is on the up and up, he's going to have a tough road to travel. If he's a good guy, he's being attacked from all sides.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 01:06:13 PM
This was the latest report:
It is the Kalpoe lawyers that said one or both of them may be
released
.  The judge has until 4:30 tomorrow to make that decision.
The reporter says that things have suddenly gotten confusing.
Kalpoe lawyers are talking.
Mos has been quiet since yesterday.  Mos has a PR person!
Mos may make a statement later today.
Reporter has no idea why the news conference was canceled.
Like I said, what would you expect the defense attorneys to say?

This is nothing new.  The Kalpoes attorneys have been saying this all along.  JoeT said that about Joran when he arrived in Aruba and JoeT was WRONG.  Do not listen to the defense attorneys!

ALSO - as of right now NOTHING at RU about a release, NOTHING on Greta's blog about a release.

DO NOT listen to the defense attorneys!



keeping my fingers crossed here!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Kimmy53 on November 30, 2007, 01:09:14 PM


I LOVE your new saying robots!!  Mos IS the Boss!!!

Everything will be okay, mos has it under control. He just cant let everything out so soon, all at the same time, it could damage the case he has built against j2k and pvds, and probably others too giving them all he knows so soon. I also think he KNOWS that Tim, Mr. Shaefer and The Perseverence WILL find Natalee's body, which may be what he is trying to hold out for, because that will be the icing on the cake. At that time it will all be over but the paperwork. I feel very safe in believing this. Have faith! At this point we will be disappointed anyway if it doesnt work out, so why not think positive and give Mr Mos credit for going the distance. If he doesnt then we can be disappointed THEN, but no need to yet. This really is a battle of the good against the bad, and I totally believe this time good is gonna win. I think we should be hunting for our pom poms so we can cheer Mr. Mos and the crew of The Perseverence soon!!

You Go GabbyG...You are right on... Hang in there monkeys.  Surely we didn't expect things to get easy here in the homestretch did we? 

We gotta Keep on Keepin' on - For Natalee.  Have Faith. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 01:11:51 PM
http://www.wacotrib.com:80/news/content/news/stories/2007/11/30/11302007wacrachelallison.html?imw=Y

(http://img.coxnewsweb.com/C/09/93/11/image_6211939.jpg)

Despite being separated by state lines, cousins Rachel Allison (right) and Natalee Holloway (center) were together for all the holidays and special visits in the summer. At left is their cousin, Phillisha Holloway

(http://img.coxnewsweb.com/C/06/01/12/image_6212016.jpg)

On visits to Jonesboro, Ark., Natalee Holloway (left) would go down to the river with her cousin, Rachel Allison.

(http://img.coxnewsweb.com/C/01/00/12/image_6212001.jpg)

By the time they could walk, cousins Natalee Holloway (left) and Rachel Allison already were fast friends.

(http://img.coxnewsweb.com/C/09/94/11/image_6211949.jpg)

Natalee Holloway (right), seen with cousin Rachel Allison, has been missing since May 30, 2005, when she failed to board a return flight from Aruba



Baylor basketball's Rachel Allison lives with the memory of her missing cousin, Natalee Holloway

Friday, November 30, 2007

By Jerry Hill

Tribune-Herald assistant sports editor

Not a day goes by that Rachel Allison doesn’t think of her cousin. And cry.

Nearly 2 1/2 years later, it’s still painful for the Baylor University junior basketball player even to talk about the mysterious disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

The Alabama teenager was discovered missing on May 30, 2005, when she didn’t show up for her return flight on a graduation trip to Aruba.

As first cousins separated by state lines, Allison and Holloway were close growing up. But “we had made all these plans that when we got older we were going to try to live closer to each other, because we didn’t get to see each other enough growing up,” Allison said.

“She was my only first cousin and the only girl that was my age on either side of the family,” said Allison, 20, who grew up in Jonesboro, Ark. “All the major holidays were spent together, and she’d come down to Arkansas in the summer, and we’d go to the river. In the summers, we’d call each other a lot.”

Even if she wanted to, Allison couldn’t get away from the tragic story.

On Nov. 21, Joran van der Sloot from the Netherlands and Surinamese brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe were rearrested on suspicion of involvement in Holloway’s death. Although her body never has been found, Aruban officials believe she was kidnapped and murdered.

“People will say something like, ‘Oh, that happened three years ago, Rachel, you should be over it by now.’ ” Allison said.

“Well, maybe I would be if it wasn’t in the news every single day. And I have to hear my family talk about it, because it’s obviously something going on in our lives and something we’re having to deal with.”

Unfulfilled plans

A two-time all-state high school basketball and volleyball player, Allison decided to leave her family roots and signed with Baylor over scholarship offers from Arkansas, Arkansas State, Mississippi, Louisiana Tech, Colorado, Texas A&M and Vanderbilt. Her mother, father and brother had played intercollegiate sports at Arkansas State in her hometown of Jonesboro.

But it was a happy day when Allison “got dropped off for college” in late May 2005, just before the start of Baylor’s first summer session.

“I think it was the summer before I got here, and (Natalee) had just found out about me going to Baylor,” Allison said. “And she’s like, ‘I’m so proud of you. I can’t wait to watch you play next year. I’ve told all my friends you’re going to Baylor. I’ve got some friends going to Baylor. I’m going to come see you all the time.’ ”

Within a matter of days of Allison’s arrival at Baylor, though, the family received the news of Holloway’s disappearance.

After graduating from Mountain Brook High School, located in an upscale suburb of Birmingham, Ala., Holloway joined 124 fellow students for a five-day trip to Aruba.

Not on return flight

According to police reports, Holloway was last seen leaving Carlos ’n Charlie’s bar and grill in Oranjestad at about 1:30 a.m. with van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers. When Holloway did not show up for her return flight later that day, her passport, packed luggage, camera and cell phone were found in her hotel room.

Linda Allison, Rachel’s mother, joined a massive search party that summer that included thousands of volunteers, Texas EquuSearch, Aruban and Dutch soldiers, police and FBI agents. Linda Allison’s brother, Dave Holloway, is Natalee’s father.

“My mom was in Aruba all summer, so I didn’t even see her,” Allison said. “And I was going home almost every weekend, so it was difficult. It’s difficult now.”

Away from home for the first time, Allison said there were nights “where I would come home and just lay on my bed and cry.”

She was the lone outsider in a campus apartment that housed fellow freshmen Jhasmin Player, Jessica Morrow and Tricia Abbott, who were all from the Houston area and had played together for years on the same AAU basketball team.

“As you can imagine, I had no one here to talk to, because I had just met my roommates. I didn’t really know any of them,” Allison said.

But that summer was when she also found out how supportive a team can be. Even a team full of strangers.

“Bernice (Mosby), Sophia (Young), they all took care of me,” Allison said. “So it was nice, right off the bat, to see how your team comes together. And they didn’t even know me. But they knew what was going on, so they were very supportive.

“All the girls were great.”

‘Just hope and pray’

Through her own pain, Allison also marveled at what a “rock” her mom has been.

“She’s been there for my uncle, 100 percent, the whole time,” Rachel said. “They all went to Aruba that summer to help look, and then she’s been down to Mississippi to see him. She’s done interviews. She’s just a wonderful lady.”

Linda Allison and Rachel’s dad, Tim Allison, rarely miss games in Waco and will travel up to eight hours for road trips to Big 12 Conference games. But there were anxious moments the last two years, when Allison and the Lady Bears played at tournaments in Mexico and the Bahamas.

“They would talk to the coaches before and be like, ‘Keep an eye on Rachel,’ ” she said. “But the chances of something like that happening are very slim.”

But as Allison and her family know all too sadly, it can happen. They’ve lived through the nightmare.

And even though the Aruban officials believe Holloway is dead, without a body there has been no closure for Allison or anyone else close to Natalee Holloway.

“Not really,” Allison said. “You just hope and pray.”





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BTgirl on November 30, 2007, 01:12:10 PM
And Peter answered him, "Lord, if it is you, command me to come to you on the water." He said, "Come." So Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water and came to Jesus. But when he saw the wind, he was afraid, and beginning to sink he cried out, "Lord, save me." Jesus immediately reached out his hand and took hold of him, saying to him, "O you of little faith, why did you doubt?"

Matthew 14:28-31


Monkeys - please keep believing.  :smt052


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: NM on November 30, 2007, 01:14:47 PM
Mark 9:23 And Jesus said to him, "'If You can?' All things are possible to him who believes."

Mark 11:23 "Truly I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen, it will be granted him."

Have faith, monkeys.  :smt056

I have been thinking for two days:   "If you have faith as a mustard seed,
nothing is impossible to you."



Yep, exactly!  :wink:
Absolutely Monkeys. Have faith. Keep praying, it is in God's hands.

I want them to only prosecute if  jpk2 will be convicted. Otherwise, keep them as suspects, let them out again and just when they think they are getting their lives back pull the F'ers back in jail. Repeat.

Good you see you BT!!!!!

back to work for me  :sad:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 01:17:20 PM
Posted by Lazlo at RU:

Lazlo Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:15 pm   
Decision about Kalpoes detention may take til tomorrow

The judge wants all the time he needs to take this decision and therefor the decision is delayed, maybe later in the afternoon, but can also be tomorrow.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Port Valerie on November 30, 2007, 01:18:26 PM
Lovely photos. Brings back fresh awareness about what a great loss the family suffered.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: mishy on November 30, 2007, 01:20:46 PM
Just reported on ABC 33/40 Birmingham.
Has Mos was suppose to hold a news conference at 11:00 this morning
Aruban time to discuss yesterday's rulings.
News Conference was unexpectly cancelled at the last minute.
Unofficial word is that one of the Kalpoes will be released today.
Also that Dave and Beth will be arriving on Aruba later today to
meet with Mos tomorrow.

If this is true about one of the K2 being released, my bet would be on Satish...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 30, 2007, 01:21:09 PM
From Gibran

Be silent, my heart, until Dawn comes;
Be silent and attend my story;
Yesterday my thoughts were a boat sailing
Amidst the waves in the sea, and moving
With the winds from one land to another,
And my boat was empty except of seven
Jars of rainbow colors' and time
Came when I grew weary of moving about
On the face of the sea, and I said to
Myself, "I shall return with the empty
Boat of my thoughts to the harbor of the
Isle of my birth.

I entered the harbor of the isle of my
Birth, and the people surged to meet me
With singing and merriment  And the
Throngs invited me to enter the city;
And they were plucking their instruments
And sounding their tambourines.

Such welcome was mine...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Port Valerie on November 30, 2007, 01:22:25 PM
Just reported on ABC 33/40 Birmingham.
Has Mos was suppose to hold a news conference at 11:00 this morning
Aruban time to discuss yesterday's rulings.
News Conference was unexpectly cancelled at the last minute.
Unofficial word is that one of the Kalpoes will be released today.
Also that Dave and Beth will be arriving on Aruba later today to
meet with Mos tomorrow.

If this is true about one of the K2 being released, my bet would be on Satish...

Not mentally competent to stand trial?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 01:23:39 PM
Posted by Lazlo at RU:

Lazlo Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:15 pm   
Decision about Kalpoes detention may take til tomorrow

The judge wants all the time he needs to take this decision and therefor the decision is delayed, maybe later in the afternoon, but can also be tomorrow.


translation:
the judge is waiting for his payoff

What a crock.  All the evidence is heard, whats so hard about making the decision?

Something smells in Aruba. AGAIN! :-x :-x :-x


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: snoopy on November 30, 2007, 01:24:22 PM
Never Give Up!

BY MARTIN FARQUHAR TUPPER.

Never give up! its wiser and better
Always to hope than once to despair:
Fling off the load of Doubt's cankering fetter,
And break the dark spell of tyrannical care:
Never give up! or the burthen may sink you—
Providence kindly has mingled the cup,
And in all trials or troubles, bethink you,
The watchword of life must be, Never give up!

Never give up! there are chances and changes
Helping the hopeful a hundred to one,
And, through the chaos, High Wisdom arranges
Every success—if you'll only hope on:
Never give up! for the wisest, is boldest,
Knowing that Providence mingles the cup,
And of all maxims the best as the oldest,
Is the true watchword of Never give up.

Never give up! though the grape shot may rattle,
Or the full thunder cloud over you burst,
Stand like a rock, and the storm or the battle
Little shall harm you though doing their worst:
Never give up! if adversity presses
Providence wisely has mingled the cup,
And the best counsel, in all your distresses,
Is the stout watchword of Never give up.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 30, 2007, 01:25:18 PM

ALSO - as of right now NOTHING at RU about a release, NOTHING on Greta's blog about a release.

DO NOT listen to the defense attorneys!


OK Klaas ... I will not listen to the defence but ... it does appear that in Aruba the defence are the first to know.

Janet

+++++++++++

LOVING NATALEE
Beth Holloway

Page 182
- Helen is very positive.  "It looks good that they will remain in custody" she says.  Then just three hours after she tells me this encouraging news, a devastating call comes from an AP reporter.

"Paulus van der Sloot and his attorney are bragging to everyone that all three suspects are getting out day after tomorrow!".

Then all the media start calling.  I call Helen, then FBI agent Bill and the U.S. vice-consul.  None of them have this information.  So we tell the media it must be a rumor.  But the word is out all over the island from the defense side that all three suspects will walk.

Four and a half hours after this announcement is made to international media by Joran's father and his defense team, the FBI calls to tell me that it is indeed true.  So the three suspects who were last seen with my daughter, and who offered multiple versions of what happened that night, will go free.  And we are the last ones to find out.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Spock on November 30, 2007, 01:27:12 PM
If the suspects are released, you can bet they will be tearing down the walls looking for "bugs".


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Helen Back on November 30, 2007, 01:30:47 PM

ALSO - as of right now NOTHING at RU about a release, NOTHING on Greta's blog about a release.

DO NOT listen to the defense attorneys!


OK Klaas ... I will not listen to the defence but ... it does appear that in Aruba the defence are the first to know.

Janet

+++++++++++

LOVING NATALEE
Beth Holloway

Page 182
- Helen is very positive.  "It looks good that they will remain in custody" she says.  Then just three hours after she tells me this encouraging news, a devastating call comes from an AP reporter.

"Paulus van der Sloot and his attorney are bragging to everyone that all three suspects are getting out day after tomorrow!".

Then all the media start calling.  I call Helen, then FBI agent Bill and the U.S. vice-consul.  None of them have this information.  So we tell the media it must be a rumor.  But the word is out all over the island from the defense side that all three suspects will walk.

Four and a half hours after this announcement is made to international media by Joran's father and his defense team, the FBI calls to tell me that it is indeed true.  So the three suspects who were last seen with my daughter, and who offered multiple versions of what happened that night, will go free.  And we are the last ones to find out.

That's the way they used to roll under the old "regime".  It's not happening that way any more.  Last time, the DEFENSE was running the investigation! 

Not on Mos's watch!  That's the big difference here.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 01:32:48 PM
People Magazine 12/10/07

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Scan11302007_100056.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Scan11302007_100203.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: mishy on November 30, 2007, 01:33:14 PM
Just reported on ABC 33/40 Birmingham.
Has Mos was suppose to hold a news conference at 11:00 this morning
Aruban time to discuss yesterday's rulings.
News Conference was unexpectly cancelled at the last minute.
Unofficial word is that one of the Kalpoes will be released today.
Also that Dave and Beth will be arriving on Aruba later today to
meet with Mos tomorrow.

If this is true about one of the K2 being released, my bet would be on Satish...

Not mentally competent to stand trial?


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: chelebele on November 30, 2007, 01:42:17 PM
Just reported on ABC 33/40 Birmingham.
Has Mos was suppose to hold a news conference at 11:00 this morning
Aruban time to discuss yesterday's rulings.
News Conference was unexpectly cancelled at the last minute.
Unofficial word is that one of the Kalpoes will be released today.
Also that Dave and Beth will be arriving on Aruba later today to
meet with Mos tomorrow.

If this is true about one of the K2 being released, my bet would be on Satish...

Not mentally competent to stand trial?


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:

But he was going to be a doctor.... :lol: :lol: :roll:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 30, 2007, 01:44:25 PM
Just reported on ABC 33/40 Birmingham.
Has Mos was suppose to hold a news conference at 11:00 this morning
Aruban time to discuss yesterday's rulings.
News Conference was unexpectly cancelled at the last minute.
Unofficial word is that one of the Kalpoes will be released today.
Also that Dave and Beth will be arriving on Aruba later today to
meet with Mos tomorrow.

If this is true about one of the K2 being released, my bet would be on Satish...


that would be my guess too...if true


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Magnolia on November 30, 2007, 01:44:57 PM
Think about it.....the Kalpoe lawyers have been spouting off since
the first day of the arrests, just as Joe T. has been.
All they know is the first bit of evidence that was used to rearrest.
Mos has much more and is holding on to it.
He will release evidence as it is needed to keep holding the perps.
It's the way their system works.
Mos does not even have to give any evidence to the defense before he
presents it to the judge.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: mishy on November 30, 2007, 01:46:32 PM
Think about it.....the Kalpoe lawyers have been spouting off since
the first day of the arrests, just as Joe T. has been.
All they know is the first bit of evidence that was used to rearrest.
Mos has much more and is holding on to it.
He will release evidence as it is needed to keep holding the perps.
It's the way their system works.
Mos does not even have to give any evidence to the defense before he
presents it to the judge.

Magnolia,

I hope this is correct and that Mos has more cards up his sleeve...I've been so praying that he hasn't played his full hand yet...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on November 30, 2007, 01:48:15 PM
Think about it.....the Kalpoe lawyers have been spouting off since
the first day of the arrests, just as Joe T. has been.
All they know is the first bit of evidence that was used to rearrest.
Mos has much more and is holding on to it.
He will release evidence as it is needed to keep holding the perps.
It's the way their system works.
Mos does not even have to give any evidence to the defense before he
presents it to the judge.

Magnolia,

I hope this is correct and that Mos has more cards up his sleeve...I've been so praying that he hasn't played his full hand yet...

We're all hoping this is the case. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: dennisintn on November 30, 2007, 01:49:21 PM
Just reported on ABC 33/40 Birmingham.
Has Mos was suppose to hold a news conference at 11:00 this morning
Aruban time to discuss yesterday's rulings.
News Conference was unexpectly cancelled at the last minute.
Unofficial word is that one of the Kalpoes will be released today.
Also that Dave and Beth will be arriving on Aruba later today to
meet with Mos tomorrow.

If this is true about one of the K2 being released, my bet would be on Satish...

Not mentally competent to stand trial?


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:

But he was going to be a doctor.... :lol: :lol: :roll:

hopefully a proctologist on aruba.
dennisintn


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: AZSunny on November 30, 2007, 01:50:40 PM
Think about it.....the Kalpoe lawyers have been spouting off since
the first day of the arrests, just as Joe T. has been.
All they know is the first bit of evidence that was used to rearrest.
Mos has much more and is holding on to it.
He will release evidence as it is needed to keep holding the perps.
It's the way their system works.
Mos does not even have to give any evidence to the defense before he
presents it to the judge.

Yes,  don't you just love that part?   :smt103


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 30, 2007, 01:50:42 PM

ALSO - as of right now NOTHING at RU about a release, NOTHING on Greta's blog about a release.

DO NOT listen to the defense attorneys!


OK Klaas ... I will not listen to the defence but ... it does appear that in Aruba the defence are the first to know.

Janet

+++++++++++

LOVING NATALEE
Beth Holloway

Page 182
- Helen is very positive.  "It looks good that they will remain in custody" she says.  Then just three hours after she tells me this encouraging news, a devastating call comes from an AP reporter.

"Paulus van der Sloot and his attorney are bragging to everyone that all three suspects are getting out day after tomorrow!".

Then all the media start calling.  I call Helen, then FBI agent Bill and the U.S. vice-consul.  None of them have this information.  So we tell the media it must be a rumor.  But the word is out all over the island from the defense side that all three suspects will walk.

Four and a half hours after this announcement is made to international media by Joran's father and his defense team, the FBI calls to tell me that it is indeed true.  So the three suspects who were last seen with my daughter, and who offered multiple versions of what happened that night, will go free.  And we are the last ones to find out.

That's the way they used to roll under the old "regime".  It's not happening that way any more.  Last time, the DEFENSE was running the investigation! 

Not on Mos's watch!  That's the big difference here.



Helen ... I pray you are right but ... how can you be certain?

With all my heart I hope and pray that Aruba is now serious about affording justice for Natalee Holloway but ... considering that Paulus van der Sloot was not detained along with Joran, Deepak and Satish and ... considering the past foundation that I derive my skepticism from ...  I am not willing to get on that emotional roller coaster ride again ... only to be plunged into the depths of despair.  I have been there ... done that ...

Respectfully, Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: AZSunny on November 30, 2007, 01:51:54 PM
Just reported on ABC 33/40 Birmingham.
Has Mos was suppose to hold a news conference at 11:00 this morning
Aruban time to discuss yesterday's rulings.
News Conference was unexpectly cancelled at the last minute.
Unofficial word is that one of the Kalpoes will be released today.
Also that Dave and Beth will be arriving on Aruba later today to
meet with Mos tomorrow.

If this is true about one of the K2 being released, my bet would be on Satish...

Not mentally competent to stand trial?


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:

But he was going to be a doctor.... :lol: :lol: :roll:

hopefully a proctologist on aruba.
dennisintn
Too funny... you think he could pass that training?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 01:52:17 PM
Just reported on ABC 33/40 Birmingham.
Has Mos was suppose to hold a news conference at 11:00 this morning
Aruban time to discuss yesterday's rulings.
News Conference was unexpectly cancelled at the last minute.
Unofficial word is that one of the Kalpoes will be released today.
Also that Dave and Beth will be arriving on Aruba later today to
meet with Mos tomorrow.

If this is true about one of the K2 being released, my bet would be on Satish...

Not mentally competent to stand trial?


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:

But he was going to be a doctor.... :lol: :lol: :roll:

hopefully a proctologist on aruba.
dennisintn

that would actually be a pretty good business.

Lord knows that island is FULL of assholes!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 02:07:28 PM
I wonder which news outlet would be the first to report on any decisions made.  Maybe the Aruban 24hora website? 

Interesting new rumor that it was an undercover cop who infiltrated with Joran in Holland.

And add to that bug from within the home of Satish.  If they are saying the same thing at both location, Mos has them.  No way to explain that away, IMO.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 02:12:01 PM
I wonder which news outlet would be the first to report on any decisions made.  Maybe the Aruban 24hora website? 

Interesting new rumor that it was an undercover cop who infiltrated with Joran in Holland.

And add to that bug from within the home of Satish.  If they are saying the same thing at both location, Mos has them.  No way to explain that away, IMO.

.

NOTHING at 24ora, NOTHING on Greta's blog, NOTHING at RU except Lazlo saying the decision may not come out until later this afternoon or tomorrow.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 02:12:15 PM
I wonder which news outlet would be the first to report on any decisions made.  Maybe the Aruban 24hora website? 

Interesting new rumor that it was an undercover cop who infiltrated with Joran in Holland.

And add to that bug from within the home of Satish.  If they are saying the same thing at both location, Mos has them.  No way to explain that away, IMO.

.

aruban defense lawyers--->TacoTheMouth---->Internet mouthpieces


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Frank on November 30, 2007, 02:16:16 PM
Janet,

Respectfully, you are already on the roller coaster with us. Your work will not be in vain.

Being right will not ease the pain, so I say, let go and bring the positive energy, we've gotten off the canvas before and we will again if we have to.

A bible to Joran is what a cross is to vampires. He will burn, one way or another, the van der sloots will burn.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 02:17:49 PM
With regard to what the defense attorneys are calling old evidence, what if this was never presented to the judges by Karin Janssen and is found to be credible and incriminating?

I suppose under their system, she is free to just neglect to do that even though it would be her job?

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: igsigs on November 30, 2007, 02:18:51 PM
"DO NOT LISTEN TO DEFENSE ATTORNEYS!"    :lol:

H/T Klaasend 11/30/07


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: igsigs on November 30, 2007, 02:23:50 PM
NE Story - if true, makes sense to have a male undercover. It would be to dangerous to have a young female get *close* to Joran. Obviously.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 02:25:33 PM
NE Story - if true, makes sense to have a male undercover. It would be to dangerous to have a young female get *close* to Joran. Obviously.

SAN is on her way to try and find the NE on the stands.  If she gets it, she'll scan and send to me.  I'll post ASAP.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 02:29:21 PM
The fact that Mos appears to WANT to sit down with Beth and Dave Holloway is encouraging and quite a change from the past in this regard.

I believe information has been shared, not sure from whom or by whom, but nonetheless shared for coordinating this latest search effort.

Mos has his team of 45 from Holland on the island watching and assisting, hand picked for this.  I think any flaky rulings by the judges will not go unnoticed this time.  Surely they do not want to bring scrutiny down upon themselves and will act according to their own laws this time?

If credible evidence is presented, the judges will be expected to act accordingly, not stress over Joran's school schedule like the friends of Paulus so many of them are.  The victim had schedules as well, something that seems totally lost of some in that judiciary.

Painful and sad as it will be, I do hope Mos is able to give the family absolutes in regard as to whether Natalee is at least alive or deceased now.  Even that would be a step forward from wondering.  They have been treated so badly in the past and his meeting with them is definitely progress.

I think judges can work on weekends from what we have seen in the past from Aruba.  Their system is not big on weekends necessarily as that has been their fav time to release bad news.

That being said, it IS Friday, so am waiting anxiously.  I know Klaas will find it first if a ruling does come down.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 30, 2007, 02:30:11 PM
Let's be cheerleaders for Beth & Dave who are surely sniffing justice.  They have longsuffered far greater than anyone I know.  They have had the most precious item in the world removed from them, stolen and brutalized by thiefs, rogues, murdering thugs.  And yet they remain optimistic, hopeful and very faithful to the cause.

Let's be cheerleaders for Klaas and Red, who have worked long and hard and Mrs. Red who has given up her husband more weekends than not and dear Klaas' who has to time her showers and grocery purchases.  They have spent very tiring hours monitoring, setting up websites, writing articles, coordinating phone calls, etc.

Let's be cheerleaders for Tim Miller who has worked long and hard, who has lost his own child and who continues to be faithful to the cause of lost people everywhere.  Let's keep faith for him, who certainly needs it.  Tim is not a young man and is doing the work of a young man, working day and night, organizing and participating.

We can sit here and chat and, least of all, keep the faith.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 02:30:12 PM
With regard to what the defense attorneys are calling old evidence, what if this was never presented to the judges by Karin Janssen and is found to be credible and incriminating?

I suppose under their system, she is free to just neglect to do that even though it would be her job?

.

what if the "old misinterpreted evidence" were a video tape of Joran and the K's killing Natalee.  Are they allowed to just disregard it because its old?

what if it is wire tapped confessions that were not transcribed properly or fully?  The judge is allowed to just say he cant consider it?

This is a bunch of BS

The judge should have easly been able to say "8 more days".  Why does it take 1 then 2 now possibly 3 days to decide if something is incriminating or not?

Either the judge corrupt or Mos is stretching it

Add to it all that Mos has had these punks locked up for a week now.  You telling me he couldnt come up with anything new or incriminating in a week?

This blows, i'm so pissed



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: GabbyG on November 30, 2007, 02:33:17 PM
Memphis
I don't know if all of us will be enough..I will say this...I have been amazed at what truly dedicated people can and will do for something they believe in.  It only takes a spark..I want to be positive. 

Beth said at her book signing in Birmingham in response to a question about her still believing that this case could be solved...You always have to have hope..without it life would be unbearable. (paraphrasing only) Still, I doubt she thought what has happened in the last few weeks would actually transpire..so yes, I think there is hope...it's that magic word that requires a leap of faith for all those that believe in it.

As someone told me last night...here, hold my hand we will make it through this together.


Yes.


OK.
I can't imagine how Natalee's family is getting through this. I'll be praying for them throughout the day today.

Hi Memphis! Count me in on this. I have been and will continue to do so until this is over, and most especially so today.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 02:35:44 PM
Blah,

It is my understanding that the judge has to consider whatever evidence presented to him by the prosecutor whether it is old or new.

Defense attorneys calling it old doesn't mean it is old in the sense the judge has seen it.  New to the judges.

I have never read nor heard anything at all that says old evidence is not to be considered, only that the suspects are using this as an excuse to remain silent.

The judges have to consider it no matter when the evidence was gleaned.  Only new required to keep the perps in jail and it is new if not previously presented to a judge regardless of when the evidence was obtained.

MO

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Helen Back on November 30, 2007, 02:37:17 PM

ALSO - as of right now NOTHING at RU about a release, NOTHING on Greta's blog about a release.

DO NOT listen to the defense attorneys!


OK Klaas ... I will not listen to the defence but ... it does appear that in Aruba the defence are the first to know.

Janet

+++++++++++

LOVING NATALEE
Beth Holloway

Page 182
- Helen is very positive.  "It looks good that they will remain in custody" she says.  Then just three hours after she tells me this encouraging news, a devastating call comes from an AP reporter.

"Paulus van der Sloot and his attorney are bragging to everyone that all three suspects are getting out day after tomorrow!".

Then all the media start calling.  I call Helen, then FBI agent Bill and the U.S. vice-consul.  None of them have this information.  So we tell the media it must be a rumor.  But the word is out all over the island from the defense side that all three suspects will walk.

Four and a half hours after this announcement is made to international media by Joran's father and his defense team, the FBI calls to tell me that it is indeed true.  So the three suspects who were last seen with my daughter, and who offered multiple versions of what happened that night, will go free.  And we are the last ones to find out.

That's the way they used to roll under the old "regime".  It's not happening that way any more.  Last time, the DEFENSE was running the investigation! 

Not on Mos's watch!  That's the big difference here.



Helen ... I pray you are right but ... how can you be certain?

With all my heart I hope and pray that Aruba is now serious about affording justice for Natalee Holloway but ... considering that Paulus van der Sloot was not detained along with Joran, Deepak and Satish and ... considering the past foundation that I derive my skepticism from ...  I am not willing to get on that emotional roller coaster ride again ... only to be plunged into the depths of despair.  I have been there ... done that ...

Respectfully, Janet


Hey Janet,

I understand your skepticism.  I guess we can't be certain of anything until more news is released.  However, what we are witnessing at this time in terms of Mos's handling of the simultaneous arrests,separate locations with no access to the news, management of the media, lack of leaked information, defense attorneys out of the loop, Paulus's non-access to Joran, separate attorneys for the Kalpoes to prevent coordination of info and statements, no AHATA spokespeople giving interviews, etc.... give the appearance to me that things are different.  I am observing quite a different handling of the investigation, and this gives me confidence.  Mos is willing to meet with Beth and Dave, something Janssen never had the guts to do. 

What I am observing is not the kind of circus where the defense lawyers would be holding a press conference to BREAK the news that the suspects are released, WITH EVERYONE ELSE FINDING OUT LATER.  Where was Janssen that day?

These are just my feeling and opinions, but not without basis.  I am basing my feelings and opinions on what I am observing, and my observations tell me this is different. 

I put my confidence in my own observations and not in the statements made by defense attorneys and those who are demonstrated to not be credible.  I also believe that Mos will be bringing the sweaty man in.  But, whats the rush?  Why not let him sweat some more?

Hey Anita, we're gonna need more towels.

That's just how I have to look at things, until shown to be different.  Believe me, I've been to school regarding defense attorneys.  IMO, if you're looking for the truth, take them out of the mix and look at the rest.

Helen




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Spock on November 30, 2007, 02:37:44 PM
When a decision is a close call, Judges like to give something to each side. They may release one suspect and hold one or two others longer. I would be surprised if all are allowed to go at one hearing.

There really is no reason for Mos to hold any evidence back at this point. It wouldn't make any sense to hold back evidence from the Judge so they could walk this week, only to charge them in a month. He did say he would close the case in 30 days, if he couldn't get what he needed to prosecute.

If the boys are released, he wont be bringing them back in before the end of the year, and that would likely be the end of the case


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 02:38:58 PM
All that stuff Cowgirl Janssen chose to ignore can be presented to the judge as NEW evidence.  Only if a judge has seen it before can it not be used to detain but will still be considered in totality of a trial situation.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 02:39:17 PM
Blah,

It is my understanding that the judge has to consider whatever evidence presented to him by the prosecutor whether it is old or new.

Defense attorneys calling it old doesn't mean it is old in the sense the judge has seen it.  New to the judges.

I have never read nor heard anything at all that says old evidence is not to be considered, only that the suspects are using this as an excuse to remain silent.

The judges have to consider it no matter when the evidence was gleaned.  Only new required to keep the perps in jail and it is new if not previously presented to a judge regardless of when the evidence was obtained.

MO

.

thats exactly what I would think.

I just cant figure out why it would take 2-3 days for a judge to come to a conclusion that something is either incriminating or not incriminating.  I mean, either it is or it isnt.  Should be a pretty quick/simple procedure.  Why is the judge stuggeling to come to this decision?  It makes no sense, or am I just nuts, or what?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 02:42:02 PM
Blah,

It is my understanding that the judge has to consider whatever evidence presented to him by the prosecutor whether it is old or new.

Defense attorneys calling it old doesn't mean it is old in the sense the judge has seen it.  New to the judges.

I have never read nor heard anything at all that says old evidence is not to be considered, only that the suspects are using this as an excuse to remain silent.

The judges have to consider it no matter when the evidence was gleaned.  Only new required to keep the perps in jail and it is new if not previously presented to a judge regardless of when the evidence was obtained.

MO

.

thats exactly what I would think.

I just cant figure out why it would take 2-3 days for a judge to come to a conclusion that something is either incriminating or not incriminating.  I mean, either it is or it isnt.  Should be a pretty quick/simple procedure.  Why is the judge stuggeling to come to this decision?  It makes no sense, or am I just nuts, or what?

Where are you getting 2-3 days?  We don't know if the judge got the evidence from the prosecutor TODAY or YESTERDAY.  We know for sure he at least got it today.  So he may be wanting 24hours, what's the big deal?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: snoopy on November 30, 2007, 02:42:44 PM
Let's be cheerleaders for Beth & Dave who are surely sniffing justice.  They have longsuffered far greater than anyone I know.  They have had the most precious item in the world removed from them, stolen and brutalized by thiefs, rogues, murdering thugs.  And yet they remain optimistic, hopeful and very faithful to the cause.

Let's be cheerleaders for Klaas and Red, who have worked long and hard and Mrs. Red who has given up her husband more weekends than not and dear Klaas' who has to time her showers and grocery purchases.  They have spent very tiring hours monitoring, setting up websites, writing articles, coordinating phone calls, etc.

Let's be cheerleaders for Tim Miller who has worked long and hard, who has lost his own child and who continues to be faithful to the cause of lost people everywhere.  Let's keep faith for him, who certainly needs it.  Tim is not a young man and is doing the work of a young man, working day and night, organizing and participating.

We can sit here and chat and, least of all, keep the faith.


 :smt038 :smt038 :smt038 :smt038 :smt038 :smt038 :smt038 :smt038

 :smt045 :smt045 :smt045 :smt045 :smt045

 :thumright: :thumright: :thumright: :thumright:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 02:43:38 PM
When a decision is a close call, Judges like to give something to each side. They may release one suspect and hold one or two others longer. I would be surprised if all are allowed to go at one hearing.

There really is no reason for Mos to hold any evidence back at this point. It wouldn't make any sense to hold back evidence from the Judge so they could walk this week, only to charge them in a month. He did say he would close the case in 30 days, if he couldn't get what he needed to prosecute.

If the boys are released, he wont be bringing them back in before the end of the year, and that would likely be the end of the case


Mos said he would not release the totality of his evidence until the TRIAL.

I think it makes perfect sense not to release any more than absolutely necessary at this point so that they cannot cook up defenses or create a CYA agenda, destroy evidence this time, get Paulus buds on board, etc.

Strategy of releasing the minimum to detain is very smart in my opinion.  Meanwhile, working on enough to arrest Paulus perhaps but at the least trying to get suspects to talk.

See what evidence he can get from them before going to court for actual trial.

MO

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 02:44:55 PM
When a decision is a close call, Judges like to give something to each side. They may release one suspect and hold one or two others longer. I would be surprised if all are allowed to go at one hearing.

There really is no reason for Mos to hold any evidence back at this point. It wouldn't make any sense to hold back evidence from the Judge so they could walk this week, only to charge them in a month. He did say he would close the case in 30 days, if he couldn't get what he needed to prosecute.

If the boys are released, he wont be bringing them back in before the end of the year, and that would likely be the end of the case

I agree 100%

except for maybe the 2nd sentence, not sure about that.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Spock on November 30, 2007, 02:47:07 PM
When a decision is a close call, Judges like to give something to each side. They may release one suspect and hold one or two others longer. I would be surprised if all are allowed to go at one hearing.

There really is no reason for Mos to hold any evidence back at this point. It wouldn't make any sense to hold back evidence from the Judge so they could walk this week, only to charge them in a month. He did say he would close the case in 30 days, if he couldn't get what he needed to prosecute.

If the boys are released, he wont be bringing them back in before the end of the year, and that would likely be the end of the case


Mos said he would not release the totality of his evidence until the TRIAL.

I think it makes perfect sense not to release any more than absolutely necessary at this point so that they cannot cook up defenses or create a CYA agenda, destroy evidence this time, get Paulus buds on board, etc.

Strategy of releasing the minimum to detain is very smart in my opinion.  Meanwhile, working on enough to arrest Paulus perhaps but at the least trying to get suspects to talk.

See what evidence he can get from them before going to court for actual trial.

MO

Anna, it doesnt make any sense to hold back too much evidence and have them released. He has to present enough to keep them in jail, and if he doesn't have it...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 02:48:01 PM
Blah,

It is my understanding that the judge has to consider whatever evidence presented to him by the prosecutor whether it is old or new.

Defense attorneys calling it old doesn't mean it is old in the sense the judge has seen it.  New to the judges.

I have never read nor heard anything at all that says old evidence is not to be considered, only that the suspects are using this as an excuse to remain silent.

The judges have to consider it no matter when the evidence was gleaned.  Only new required to keep the perps in jail and it is new if not previously presented to a judge regardless of when the evidence was obtained.

MO

.

thats exactly what I would think.

I just cant figure out why it would take 2-3 days for a judge to come to a conclusion that something is either incriminating or not incriminating.  I mean, either it is or it isn't.  Should be a pretty quick/simple procedure.  Why is the judge stuggeling to come to this decision?  It makes no sense, or am I just nuts, or what?

Because yesterday he only got the motion for them to share an attorney and for Baby Joran to be given creature comforts.

Today is when he got the evidence to hold the Kalpoes.  Has that hearing even taken place yet?  He may rule at the hearing or tomorrow but I don't know that the hearing to detain has even taken place because the judge would go to the jails, both of them, where the Kalpoes are being held.

The motions he heard yesterday were at the courthouse.  He may not have even heard the evidence yet.  Might be a good idea to let him hear it before we get impatient.  He has to hear the new evidence in the actual presence of the suspects as their way of due process, allow them to answer, etc.  He did not go to any jail yesterday is how we know he didn't hear that evidence.



.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tylergal on November 30, 2007, 02:49:24 PM
When a decision is a close call, Judges like to give something to each side. They may release one suspect and hold one or two others longer. I would be surprised if all are allowed to go at one hearing.

There really is no reason for Mos to hold any evidence back at this point. It wouldn't make any sense to hold back evidence from the Judge so they could walk this week, only to charge them in a month. He did say he would close the case in 30 days, if he couldn't get what he needed to prosecute.

If the boys are released, he wont be bringing them back in before the end of the year, and that would likely be the end of the case

I think Mos will hold back the big guns until he goes for the 60-day "hold."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Rooscrew on November 30, 2007, 02:49:25 PM
Let's be cheerleaders for Beth & Dave who are surely sniffing justice.  They have longsuffered far greater than anyone I know.  They have had the most precious item in the world removed from them, stolen and brutalized by thiefs, rogues, murdering thugs.  And yet they remain optimistic, hopeful and very faithful to the cause.

Let's be cheerleaders for Klaas and Red, who have worked long and hard and Mrs. Red who has given up her husband more weekends than not and dear Klaas' who has to time her showers and grocery purchases.  They have spent very tiring hours monitoring, setting up websites, writing articles, coordinating phone calls, etc.

Let's be cheerleaders for Tim Miller who has worked long and hard, who has lost his own child and who continues to be faithful to the cause of lost people everywhere.  Let's keep faith for him, who certainly needs it.  Tim is not a young man and is doing the work of a young man, working day and night, organizing and participating.

We can sit here and chat and, least of all, keep the faith.

I'm with you, Tyler :) 
Monkeys, we gotta keep the faith, it's all we got. We gotta stay strong as the families draw from our strength as well. Also, we have to remember God's timing isn't our timing. We've been wanting justice for 2 1/2 years now. God's perfect plan sometimes goes in different ways than the way we want that plan to go. We try so hard to do the Lord's job and tell Him what he needs to do. During that process He changes us to become more like Him. We know ultimately God's ways and plans are perfect. 
I go back and forth with exactly what some are going thru' as well, wondering if it's for real or just a pony show going on. I'm trying to remain optimistic and what Robots, Wreck, Klaas and the others keep saying, brings hope. I'm praying that this will be the end and Natalee can be found with the deep sea search and brought home.
We gotta stick together, think positive, hope for the best and continue to fight the good fight. Good overcomes evil!!

Roos~


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 30, 2007, 02:50:08 PM
Janet,

Respectfully, you are already on the roller coaster with us. Your work will not be in vain.

Being right will not ease the pain, so I say, let go and bring the positive energy, we've gotten off the canvas before and we wilagain if we have to.

A bible to Joran is what a cross is to vampires. He will burn, one way or another, the van der sloots will burn.

A story ...

I have always had a good relationship with my my eldest son's wife but ... not close.  My daughter-in-law has given my hubby and I a beautiful grandson and ... she is a great mother and ... she makes my son happy.  However ... she is thisclose with her parents who reside in Quebec.  Fortunately she has a good long-distance plan ... she talks to them every day.

Frank ... I had fully excepted the status quo of our relationship and did not expect it to ever change.  However ... yesterday something happened.  My hubby and I received a personalize card from our beautiful French Canadian daughter-in-law and ... the unexpected made me so happy ... I am still walking on air today.

My point ... I expect nothing out of Aruba in regards to justice for Natalee Holloway and ... closure for her family but ... if it happens ... I am going to be sooo excited.

Frank ... am I making sense.  :wink:

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 02:50:23 PM
Blah,

It is my understanding that the judge has to consider whatever evidence presented to him by the prosecutor whether it is old or new.

Defense attorneys calling it old doesn't mean it is old in the sense the judge has seen it.  New to the judges.

I have never read nor heard anything at all that says old evidence is not to be considered, only that the suspects are using this as an excuse to remain silent.

The judges have to consider it no matter when the evidence was gleaned.  Only new required to keep the perps in jail and it is new if not previously presented to a judge regardless of when the evidence was obtained.

MO

.

thats exactly what I would think.

I just cant figure out why it would take 2-3 days for a judge to come to a conclusion that something is either incriminating or not incriminating.  I mean, either it is or it isnt.  Should be a pretty quick/simple procedure.  Why is the judge stuggeling to come to this decision?  It makes no sense, or am I just nuts, or what?

Where are you getting 2-3 days?  We don't know if the judge got the evidence from the prosecutor TODAY or YESTERDAY.  We know for sure he at least got it today.  So he may be wanting 24hours, what's the big deal?

we were told the hearing was yesterday (or was supposed to be)
Didnt it happen?

Then we were told the decision was supposed to be made today?

And now today we are hearing tomorrow?

thats 2-3 days isnt it?

Seems like it should be a very easy thing to do.  hear the evidence and decide if it is incriminating or not.  I dont understand why it would take even 24 hours??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 02:50:36 PM
I would think Mos has a pretty good feel for how much is enough for a judge to hear to detain someone.  It must be a fine judgment call on his part and I only hope and pray he is correct in his assessment of how much is enough but not too much so as to assist the defense.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 02:54:52 PM
Blah,

It is my understanding that the judge has to consider whatever evidence presented to him by the prosecutor whether it is old or new.

Defense attorneys calling it old doesn't mean it is old in the sense the judge has seen it.  New to the judges.

I have never read nor heard anything at all that says old evidence is not to be considered, only that the suspects are using this as an excuse to remain silent.

The judges have to consider it no matter when the evidence was gleaned.  Only new required to keep the perps in jail and it is new if not previously presented to a judge regardless of when the evidence was obtained.

MO

.

thats exactly what I would think.

I just cant figure out why it would take 2-3 days for a judge to come to a conclusion that something is either incriminating or not incriminating.  I mean, either it is or it isn't.  Should be a pretty quick/simple procedure.  Why is the judge stuggeling to come to this decision?  It makes no sense, or am I just nuts, or what?

Because yesterday he only got the motion for them to share an attorney and for Baby Joran to be given creature comforts.

Today is when he got the evidence to hold the Kalpoes.  Has that hearing even taken place yet?  He may rule at the hearing or tomorrow but I don't know that the hearing to detain has even taken place because the judge would go to the jails, both of them, where the Kalpoes are being held.

The motions he heard yesterday were at the courthouse.  He may not have even heard the evidence yet.  Might be a good idea to let him hear it before we get impatient.  He has to hear the new evidence in the actual presence of the suspects as their way of due process, allow them to answer, etc.  He did not go to any jail yesterday is how we know he didn't hear that evidence.



.

I thought he heard the evidence yesterday and was to notify his decision today.

"He did not go to any jail yesterday is how we know he didn't hear that evidence." \
"because the judge would go to the jails, both of them, where the Kalpoes are being held."

how do we know these 2 sentences are true? 



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 02:55:11 PM
Blah,
No, I don't think the evidence and detention hearing happened yesterday.  Did anyone read about a judge going to the jails?  Didn't we joke that the first two motion hearings were a full day for an Aruban judge?

He still has to rule on those two motions which evidently are considered more important that the one on detention.

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I think today is when he will hear the evidence on whether to detain.

Blah, from yesterday until today is one day, not 2-3.  It just seems like it is, lol.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: igsigs on November 30, 2007, 02:58:56 PM
In the Greta interview Mos said the Kalpoe 8 day hearing would be *thursday or friday*.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 02:59:53 PM
Blah,
No, I don't think the evidence and detention hearing happened yesterday.  Did anyone read about a judge going to the jails?  Didn't we joke that the first two motion hearings were a full day for an Aruban judge?

He still has to rule on those two motions which evidently are considered more important that the one on detention.

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I think today is when he will hear the evidence on whether to detain.

Blah, from yesterday until today is one day, not 2-3.  It just seems like it is, lol.

we must count differently.

I consider today yesterday and today as 2 days (2 work days anyhow)
now we hear possibly tomorrow.  seems to add up to 2-3 days to me


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Frank on November 30, 2007, 03:00:58 PM
Janet,

I understand. I'm just hoping no news can derail you. There really will never be closure here, the pain and unfairness is too great.

The fact that the world isn't mortified that there are sick guys who feel the need to incapacitate a woman to sexually assault her makes me angry. To me that crime alone should be worth life in jail.

But by what you are saying about expectations, we certainly have momentum and we're trending upward.

I have been rethinking some things and it seems to me that if you take down Paulus first, since he is the managing director of this coverup, then the rest will fall, so I have some concern that he is still free. My only hope is that he has a listening device up his ass and will hang himself.

So I'm with you, but I'm optimistic only because everyone knows this story is hot again and that's good for the Holloways.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 03:01:02 PM

I thought he heard the evidence yesterday and was to notify his decision today.

"He did not go to any jail yesterday is how we know he didn't hear that evidence." \
"because the judge would go to the jails, both of them, where the Kalpoes are being held."

how do we know these 2 sentences are true? 




You may be right, Blah.  But the news media just covered the defense attorneys after the motions were presented concerning Kalpoe attorney and Joran getting candy and pizza and beer, etc.

I did not see any indication that the detention hearings took place later in the day.  They may have but I don't think so until today.

The only hearings I saw covered were at the courthouse.  Judge has to go to the jail to hear detention evidence as accused has the right to face their accuser and all that. 

You don't know those sentences are true but did you see anything about any judge going to the jails from any of the attorneys or any surfer dude outside the jail?  I only saw outside the courthouse and not outside the jails.

Maybe I missed it.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 03:01:55 PM
In the Greta interview Mos said the Kalpoe 8 day hearing would be *thursday or friday*.

so which is it?

Are you saying they may not have even had the 8 day extension hearing yet??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Puzzler on November 30, 2007, 03:02:31 PM
Blog, not block. You know what I meant.

yep........no worries.......we all do those little fluffs at one time or another  :wink:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 03:03:58 PM
SAN - just sent me the NE article.  Thanks San!  Hope you can read it.    

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/NE121007.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 03:04:12 PM
Blah,
No, I don't think the evidence and detention hearing happened yesterday.  Did anyone read about a judge going to the jails?  Didn't we joke that the first two motion hearings were a full day for an Aruban judge?

He still has to rule on those two motions which evidently are considered more important that the one on detention.

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I think today is when he will hear the evidence on whether to detain.

Blah, from yesterday until today is one day, not 2-3.  It just seems like it is, lol.

we must count differently.

I consider today yesterday and today as 2 days (2 work days anyhow)
now we hear possibly tomorrow.  seems to add up to 2-3 days to me

24 hours from yesterday = one day.  I think the judge is only hearing detention evidence today.  Tomorrow would be another 24 hours or one day.

Yes, evidently we do count differently as I can't get three days out of something happening even as we speak.  Clock starts running at conclusion of detention hearing.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 03:05:50 PM

I thought he heard the evidence yesterday and was to notify his decision today.

"He did not go to any jail yesterday is how we know he didn't hear that evidence." \
"because the judge would go to the jails, both of them, where the Kalpoes are being held."

how do we know these 2 sentences are true? 




You may be right, Blah.  But the news media just covered the defense attorneys after the motions were presented concerning Kalpoe attorney and Joran getting candy and pizza and beer, etc.

I did not see any indication that the detention hearings took place later in the day.  They may have but I don't think so until today.

The only hearings I saw covered were at the courthouse.  Judge has to go to the jail to hear detention evidence as accused has the right to face their accuser and all that. 

You don't know those sentences are true but did you see anything about any judge going to the jails from any of the attorneys or any surfer dude outside the jail?  I only saw outside the courthouse and not outside the jails.

Maybe I missed it.

.

I guess I just didnt know that it is fact that the judge only goes to the jail for the extension hearings and does not do them at the courthouse.  I mean, I knew he did it the for the first extension, but i didnt know thats the only way it is done for all of the extensions. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 03:07:45 PM
i just got the news...

they are staying in jail


 :smt081 :smt081 :smt081 :smt081 :smt033 :smt033 :smt033 :smt033 :smt033

light em up  :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: igsigs on November 30, 2007, 03:08:05 PM
In the Greta interview Mos said the Kalpoe 8 day hearing would be *thursday or friday*.

so which is it?

Are you saying they may not have even had the 8 day extension hearing yet??

I think it was today - just pointing out that it was probably not delayed yesterday.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 30, 2007, 03:09:51 PM
i just got the news...

they are staying in jail


 :smt081 :smt081 :smt081 :smt081 :smt033 :smt033 :smt033 :smt033 :smt033

light em up  :cool:

are you sure, robots ?
if so, good news.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 03:09:55 PM
i just got the news...

they are staying in jail


 :smt081 :smt081 :smt081 :smt081 :smt033 :smt033 :smt033 :smt033 :smt033

light em up  :cool:

Serious, or wishful thinking?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 03:11:18 PM
In the Greta interview Mos said the Kalpoe 8 day hearing would be *thursday or friday*.

so which is it?

Are you saying they may not have even had the 8 day extension hearing yet??

I don't know about Igs but that's what I'm saying.  Aruban judge heard the two motions mentioned and apparently called it a day.

I did not see him going to the two different jails to hear the detention evidence covered on TV.  He could have without it being reported but even Surfer Dude should have caught on to that.

So if he hears it today, he may rule on it today or tomorrow which is still one day from when the judge hears the evidence.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 30, 2007, 03:11:37 PM
SAN - just sent me the NE article.  Thanks San!  Hope you can read it.    

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/NE121007.jpg)

this must be koen that the article refers to, huh ??
koen = boat = false alibi of playing tennis the next evening.
is that everyone else's take on this as well??


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 03:11:45 PM
Robots has left the Building, he is out smoking a CIGAR



Light em


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: truthseeker2 on November 30, 2007, 03:12:39 PM
i just got the news...

they are staying in jail


 :smt081 :smt081 :smt081 :smt081 :smt033 :smt033 :smt033 :smt033 :smt033

light em up  :cool:


Yeah!!! Smoke 'em if ya got 'em!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Frank on November 30, 2007, 03:12:50 PM
robots,

Source please?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 03:13:16 PM
i just got the news...

they are staying in jail


 :smt081 :smt081 :smt081 :smt081 :smt033 :smt033 :smt033 :smt033 :smt033

light em up  :cool:

Thank GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where did you hear this?????


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 03:14:09 PM
Has to be done in the presence of the accused, the new evidence against them presented.  Just like in this country, the right to face those accusing you.

Slower than molasses, too.  I know, it seems like a day is a week in this process.  But we have to first let the judge at least hear the evidence before he gives a ruling.  That's only fair, lol.

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 03:16:11 PM
ROBOTS - Don't toy with us.  Did you hear this for REAL?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 03:16:20 PM
In the Greta interview Mos said the Kalpoe 8 day hearing would be *thursday or friday*.

so which is it?

Are you saying they may not have even had the 8 day extension hearing yet??

I don't know about Igs but that's what I'm saying.  Aruban judge heard the two motions mentioned and apparently called it a day.

I did not see him going to the two different jails to hear the detention evidence covered on TV.  He could have without it being reported but even Surfer Dude should have caught on to that.

So if he hears it today, he may rule on it today or tomorrow which is still one day from when the judge hears the evidence.



well, where the hell did I get the idea that they did the hearing yesterday morning and the decision was expected today?   And why did y'all let my blood pressure get all worked up if he didnt even hear the dang evidence yet?


oh well, sounds like none of it matters now anyhow!!!! WHEW !!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 03:16:57 PM
Buckshot,

Yes, father owned a boat, someone the Holloways tried to get prosecution to look at before but Cowgirl and her boss Theresa refused to do.

All that sounds like Koen. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Katysmom on November 30, 2007, 03:17:13 PM
Let's be cheerleaders for Beth & Dave who are surely sniffing justice.  They have longsuffered far greater than anyone I know.  They have had the most precious item in the world removed from them, stolen and brutalized by thiefs, rogues, murdering thugs.  And yet they remain optimistic, hopeful and very faithful to the cause.

Let's be cheerleaders for Klaas and Red, who have worked long and hard and Mrs. Red who has given up her husband more weekends than not and dear Klaas' who has to time her showers and grocery purchases.  They have spent very tiring hours monitoring, setting up websites, writing articles, coordinating phone calls, etc.

Let's be cheerleaders for Tim Miller who has worked long and hard, who has lost his own child and who continues to be faithful to the cause of lost people everywhere.  Let's keep faith for him, who certainly needs it.  Tim is not a young man and is doing the work of a young man, working day and night, organizing and participating.

We can sit here and chat and, least of all, keep the faith.

Yeah, Tyler!  That was so very special and you said it so well.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 03:17:33 PM
ROBOTS - Don't toy with us.  Did you hear this for REAL?

i did hear this.  and it is not a secret source..cause i dont have any 

just from a very RELIABLE source

more coming  :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 03:19:29 PM
Robots has left the Building, he is out smoking a CIGAR



Light em

Get back in here and tell us where you heard this!

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 03:19:55 PM
ROBOTS - Don't toy with us.  Did you hear this for REAL?

i did hear this.  and it is not a secret source..cause i dont have any 

just from a very RELIABLE source

more coming  :cool:

Robots - OK...I'll wait to light up my cigar until I see another source  :wink:  I always like at least 2 or 3 sources.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Puzzler on November 30, 2007, 03:20:23 PM
But the phone taps - and details Joran drunkenly let slip to the undercover cop at school - tell a different story,


dumbass

Yep....too cocky...always gets away with everything (just THINK of the many, many different times he's broken the law)...DADDY won't be able to help him out of this one..in fact, I hope Daddy can't even get out of it himself!!

A young undercover cop....very, very, very clever, Mos clever: WICKED CLEVER
hee hee hee


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 03:21:09 PM
ROBOTS - Don't toy with us.  Did you hear this for REAL?

i did hear this.  and it is not a secret source..cause i dont have any 

just from a very RELIABLE source

more coming  :cool:

dont even tell me you are pulling our leg!!!!!!!

I'm about to take someones friggen head off over here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 03:22:00 PM
ROBOTS - Don't toy with us.  Did you hear this for REAL?

i did hear this.  and it is not a secret source..cause i dont have any 

just from a very RELIABLE source

more coming  :cool:

Robots - OK...I'll wait to light up my cigar until I see another source  :wink:  I always like at least 2 or 3 sources.

me too,,, but i got a little excited  :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 03:22:03 PM
And I suspect young cop wearing a wire.  The words of Joran on tape in The Netherlands.

Joe T will really be spinning this!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Frank on November 30, 2007, 03:24:34 PM
Hey Robots,

I have a source that claims your an ass.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Tamikosmom on November 30, 2007, 03:25:26 PM
Janet,

I understand. I'm just hoping no news can derail you. There really will never be closure here, the pain and unfairness is too great.

The fact that the world isn't mortified that there are sick guys who feel the need to incapacitate a woman to sexually assault her makes me angry. To me that crime alone should be worth life in jail.

But by what you are saying about expectations, we certainly have momentum and we're trending upward.

I have been rethinking some things and it seems to me that if you take down Paulus first, since he is the managing director of this coverup, then the rest will fall, so I have some concern that he is still free. My only hope is that he has a listening device up his ass and will hang himself.

So I'm with you, but I'm optimistic only because everyone knows this story is hot again and that's good for the Holloways.


Frank .. I agree.  Natalee Holloway was becoming a distance memory in the minds of many Americans.  The happenings of the past week has definitely been a reminder that one of their own is still being denied a just investigation on foreign soil.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 30, 2007, 03:25:48 PM
i just got the news...

they are staying in jail


 :smt081 :smt081 :smt081 :smt081 :smt033 :smt033 :smt033 :smt033 :smt033

light em up  :cool:

 :shock: fer real?   Don't mess with the bunnys little mind..  :wink:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Anna on November 30, 2007, 03:25:55 PM
Blah,
Not many judges in Aruba are going to hear four motions in three different places in the same day.  They just don't move that quickly.

And robots better not be kidding us!

.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 03:26:33 PM
Hey Robots,

I have a source that claims your an ass.

I have a second source


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 03:27:59 PM
Hey Robots,

I have a source that claims your an ass.

im just reporting what i was told

well see  :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 03:29:30 PM
Hey Robots,

I have a source that claims your an ass.

im just reporting what i was told

well see  :cool:

Robots...I have my cigars ready :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 03:30:03 PM
Blah,
Not many judges in Aruba are going to hear four motions in three different places in the same day.  They just don't move that quickly.

And robots better not be kidding us!

.

ok, can we just take a step back and figure out what we really know or dont know here?  I  am all kinds of confused.

Is the only thing that we know for sure is that Joran got a bible?  True or False?


a ruling on the rest of Joran's request is supposed to come out today? True or False?

A ruling on whether the Kalpukes get separate attornies is due today?  true or false?

We have no clue whats going on with the K2 extension hearing?  true/false?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 03:30:12 PM
Hey Robots,

I have a source that claims your an ass.

im just reporting what i was told

well see  :cool:

Robots...I have my cigars ready :lol:

keep em handy  :wink:
i lit mine already


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Frank on November 30, 2007, 03:31:19 PM
Robots,

This may be a game to you but it isn't for others.

"you were reporting what you were told?'

Weak, very weak.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 03:32:27 PM
Robots,

This may be a game to you but it isn't for others.

"you were reporting what you were told?'

Weak, very weak.

it aint a game to me frank

trust me on that


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 03:33:09 PM
Still nothing on the detention at RU, Greta's blog or 24ora.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Port Valerie on November 30, 2007, 03:33:20 PM
Blah,
Not many judges in Aruba are going to hear four motions in three different places in the same day.  They just don't move that quickly.

And robots better not be kidding us!

.

ok, can we just take a step back and figure out what we really know or dont know here?  I  am all kinds of confused.

Is the only thing that we know for sure is that Joran got a bible?  True or False?


a ruling on the rest of Joran's request is supposed to come out today? True or False?

A ruling on whether the Kalpukes get separate attornies is due today?  true or false?

We have no clue whats going on with the K2 extension hearing?  true/false?



1. True but so what.
2. False -- some time but we don't know when.
3. False -- same, we don't know when.
4. True.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 03:34:14 PM
Hey Robots,

I have a source that claims your an ass.

im just reporting what i was told

well see  :cool:

Robots...I have my cigars ready :lol:

keep em handy  :wink:
i lit mine already

okey dokey..... :smt052


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 03:34:52 PM
NOTICE:  Jossy will be on Dana Pretzer tonight.  I've created a thread for you to let Dana know what questions you would like JOSSY to answer.  Please post your questions in this thread and I'll forward to Dana prior to the show!

QUESTIONS FOR JOSSY


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2404.0


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: igsigs on November 30, 2007, 03:35:19 PM
We need an update from Hans. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Spock on November 30, 2007, 03:35:35 PM
Yes, that would be Koen and his boat. The assistant prosecutor in June 2005 wanted Koen brought in for questioning, but was told that wouldn't be possible. Koens father came to the police station and gave a statement saying his son had no involvement. The prosecutor then resigned.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 03:35:55 PM
And I suspect young cop wearing a wire.  The words of Joran on tape in The Netherlands.

Joe T will really be spinning this!

this really does make sense.....I sure hope to goodness it's true and what ever the evidence is it will put that murdering pervert away for life


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Canary on November 30, 2007, 03:37:24 PM
Since I'm new to Scared Monkeys - could somebody please please tell me who this Lazlo is at RU?  THanks


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 03:37:30 PM
Still nothing on the detention at RU, Greta's blog or 24ora.

thanks Klaas....for a change I have CNN on.....talking about the train wreck and the human bomb ..... :shock:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 03:39:38 PM
Heli at RU reporting MSNBC is saying the Kalpoes are being RELEASED

Note:  Heli could be wrong, MSNBC could be wrong - I'm looking


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 03:39:42 PM
We need an update from Hans. 

man, aint that the truth


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: igsigs on November 30, 2007, 03:40:37 PM
Heli at RU reporting MSNBC is saying the Kalpoes are being RELEASED

It's true.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: truthseeker2 on November 30, 2007, 03:40:59 PM
Heli at RU reporting MSNBC is saying the Kalpoes are being RELEASED

I'm flipping through the channels, but did not see that.  Only coverage I see right now is the hostage situation in New Hampshire.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: mishy on November 30, 2007, 03:41:32 PM
Yes, that would be Koen and his boat. The assistant prosecutor in June 2005 wanted Koen brought in for questioning, but was told that wouldn't be possible. Koens father came to the police station and gave a statement saying his son had no involvement. The prosecutor then resigned.

Do we know if Koen's father had any power on that island? Why would they let a suspect's father come in and give a statement? This is real life, not nursery school...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: igsigs on November 30, 2007, 03:42:41 PM
Since I'm new to Scared Monkeys - could somebody please please tell me who this Lazlo is at RU?  THanks

A Dutch gal that gets good info.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 03:42:52 PM
Heli at RU reporting MSNBC is saying the Kalpoes are being RELEASED

It's true.

you are friggen kidding me!!!!!
WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 03:44:05 PM
Heli at RU reporting MSNBC is saying the Kalpoes are being RELEASED

It's true.

Igsigs - are you hearing from another source? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Canary on November 30, 2007, 03:44:33 PM
Thanks for the info re Lazlo

The only hope here is that the K2 were not as involved as Joran - when is his next hearing?  next week?

Maybe the incriminating evidence was only against Joran...

otherwise this is really bad news.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Helen Back on November 30, 2007, 03:44:41 PM
been surfin for news.  only thing I've seen is hostage coverage in NH.  Maybe came across a ticker?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 03:45:14 PM
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/1LOCK.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 30, 2007, 03:45:16 PM
Heli at RU reporting MSNBC is saying the Kalpoes are being RELEASED

Note:  Heli could be wrong, MSNBC could be wrong - I'm looking


 :shock:     :2doh:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: igsigs on November 30, 2007, 03:46:47 PM
Klaas - i saw the MSNBC report.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 03:47:16 PM
CNN confirming the k2's release


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 30, 2007, 03:47:53 PM
Klaas - i saw the MSNBC report.

 I think I am gonna be sick..   :-x


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 03:47:55 PM
4:30 EST press conference by Mos


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on November 30, 2007, 03:48:04 PM
CNN confirming the k2's release

 :shock: :shock:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 03:48:07 PM
Klaas - i saw the MSNBC report.

if this is true, it is VERY BAD!!!

ARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: JA on November 30, 2007, 03:48:25 PM
This news, if true is very upsetting.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 03:48:44 PM
Dec 7 next hearing for jvds


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 30, 2007, 03:49:16 PM
CNN confirming the k2's release

 TY Sunny..
 Another dog and pony show ...  :-x


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Frank on November 30, 2007, 03:49:24 PM
Just in time for Beth and Dave to be in Aruba.

geez.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: klaasend on November 30, 2007, 03:49:46 PM
CNN just reported Kalpoes released as well.  Hans Mos is supposed to hold a news conference this afternoon.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 30, 2007, 03:49:58 PM
This news, if true is very upsetting.

 Hi JA,..  very upsetting.. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 30, 2007, 03:50:09 PM
Yes, that would be Koen and his boat. The assistant prosecutor in June 2005 wanted Koen brought in for questioning, but was told that wouldn't be possible. Koens father came to the police station and gave a statement saying his son had no involvement. The prosecutor then resigned.


Some sources recently say Koen was questioned several times (from the log we have here someplace)...I am going to look for that now, because I thought he was not questioned too...  :smt102


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Canary on November 30, 2007, 03:50:17 PM
Maybe they cooperated?????

Maybe Joran did not incriminate them????

Maybe Mos is a jerk LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: igsigs on November 30, 2007, 03:50:59 PM
Thanks for the info re Lazlo

The only hope here is that the K2 were not as involved as Joran - when is his next hearing?  next week?

Maybe the incriminating evidence was only against Joran...

otherwise this is really bad news.

Speaking of Lazlo - she did say the investigation was gunning for Joran, and only looking at the Ks with lesser charges (obstruction, etc...)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Kimmy53 on November 30, 2007, 03:50:59 PM
4:30 EST press conference by Mos

I gotta hear this, but I am at work....

Someone keep us up to date



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: mishy on November 30, 2007, 03:51:03 PM
Just in time for Beth and Dave to be in Aruba.

geez.

my thoughts exactly Frank...This is a blow...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on November 30, 2007, 03:51:04 PM
Maybe they cooperated?????

Maybe Joran did not incriminate them????

Maybe Mos is a jerk LOL

No LOL about it!  Not funny


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 03:51:34 PM
Maybe they cooperated?????

Maybe Joran did not incriminate them????

Maybe Mos is a jerk LOL


i'm going with corrupt judges for now :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Nut44x4 on November 30, 2007, 03:51:35 PM
Thanks for the info re Lazlo

The only hope here is that the K2 were not as involved as Joran - when is his next hearing?  next week?

Maybe the incriminating evidence was only against Joran...

otherwise this is really bad news.

I have to agree.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 03:51:43 PM
CNN confirming the k2's release

 TY Sunny..
 Another dog and pony show ...  :-x

this really made me sick.......there is no justice for Natalee in Aruba.....DAMN THAT PLACE....DAMN THEM ALL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Canary on November 30, 2007, 03:51:52 PM
Thanks for the info re Lazlo

The only hope here is that the K2 were not as involved as Joran - when is his next hearing?  next week?

Maybe the incriminating evidence was only against Joran...

otherwise this is really bad news.

Speaking of Lazlo - she did say the investigation was gunning for Joran, and only looking at the Ks with lesser charges (obstruction, etc...)

I think I did read that over there - but would have to go back and check


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: mishy on November 30, 2007, 03:52:27 PM
CNN just reported Kalpoes released as well.  Hans Mos is supposed to hold a news conference this afternoon.

This should be interesting...I just hope he didn't want to meet with Beth and Dave this weekend to break some other bad news to them  :sad:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 03:53:09 PM
I cant even imagine what this is going to do to Dave and Beth

 :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: BUCKSHOT on November 30, 2007, 03:53:27 PM
Buckshot,

Yes, father owned a boat, someone the Holloways tried to get prosecution to look at before but Cowgirl and her boss Theresa refused to do.

All that sounds like Koen. 

wonder who the captain of the boat was...
and also who the crew mates were....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: snoopy on November 30, 2007, 03:54:01 PM
CNN just reported Kalpoes released as well.  Hans Mos is supposed to hold a news conference this afternoon.

He better have a freakin good explanation for this!!!

 :2brickwall: :2brickwall: :2brickwall: :smt093 :smt093 :smt093 :smt076 :smt076 :smt076


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Spock on November 30, 2007, 03:55:03 PM
One can assume, if he didnt have enough to hold the Kalpoes, then he probably doesnt have enough to prosecute them. Thirty days and counting.  :sad:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Port Valerie on November 30, 2007, 03:55:17 PM
4:30 EST press conference by Mos

I gotta hear this, but I am at work....

Someone keep us up to date



EST would be 5:30 on the east coast here -- EDT.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Canary on November 30, 2007, 03:55:32 PM
Heli  PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:50 pm         

Deepak Kalpoe wrote:

Je moet gewoon de waarheid zeggen. Morgen krijg ik mijn laatste 8 dagen en darnaa ga ik naar huis.

Loosely translated (I think)

You simply have to tell the truth.
Tomorrow will be my last 8 days and then I go home.

from RU


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 03:55:58 PM
sorry for the confusion
all i can say is i got an email and i took it as good news
and maybe i need to work on my translating   :2doh: :2doh: :2doh: :2doh:
will have to wait for the  conference  i guess




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Port Valerie on November 30, 2007, 03:56:33 PM
Maybe they cooperated?????

Maybe Joran did not incriminate them????

Maybe Mos is a jerk LOL

No LOL about it!  Not funny

Agreed. No LOL.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: igsigs on November 30, 2007, 03:57:05 PM
Did CNN...or anybody...indicate that they were going to cover the Hans presser?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: truthseeker2 on November 30, 2007, 03:57:07 PM
Greta was called by Renfro and Greta contacted Beth who had just turned on her phone.  Beth, just landing in Aruba, found out from Greta.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 03:57:07 PM
One can assume, if he didnt have enough to hold the Kalpoes, then he probably doesnt have enough to prosecute them. Thirty days and counting.  :sad:

can the prosecution appeal this to a higher court, or anything???????


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 03:57:45 PM
4:30 EST press conference by Mos

I gotta hear this, but I am at work....

Someone keep us up to date



EST would be 5:30 on the east coast here -- EDT.

thanks for correcting that...I can listen and type...heck I can't type period


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on November 30, 2007, 03:57:52 PM
Greta was called by Renfro and Greta contacted Beth who had just turned on her phone.  Beth, just landing in Aruba, found out from Greta.


 :sad:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 03:58:46 PM
sorry for the confusion
all i can say is i got an email and i took it as good news
and maybe i need to work on my translating   :2doh: :2doh: :2doh: :2doh:
will have to wait for the  conference  i guess

thanks...and it's Ok...you did your best


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Dihannah1 on November 30, 2007, 03:59:19 PM
Greta on the phone on Fox and she is reporting she just spoke with Renho to confirm it.  Greta called Beth as she is taxing on the runway in Aruba just arriving and broke the news to her.  She said she could tell her voice change immediately when she heard.  Greta is stunned by the decision!   


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Canary on November 30, 2007, 03:59:41 PM
I didn't mean it was funny if Mos is a jerk - I was being sarcastic.  I certainly hope he knows what he is doing and didn't let us down.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 03:59:52 PM
Greta was called by Renfro and Greta contacted Beth who had just turned on her phone.  Beth, just landing in Aruba, found out from Greta.

really nice how they had the timing of this bullshit all figured out.

They knew exactly what they were doing here - no mistake about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: snoopy on November 30, 2007, 03:59:57 PM
Greta was called by Renfro and Greta contacted Beth who had just turned on her phone.  Beth, just landing in Aruba, found out from Greta.

Damn them all.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 04:00:28 PM
Did CNN...or anybody...indicate that they were going to cover the Hans presser?

yes the reporter said she was heading over to the news conference


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: chelebele on November 30, 2007, 04:00:41 PM
Greta was called by Renfro and Greta contacted Beth who had just turned on her phone.  Beth, just landing in Aruba, found out from Greta.


 :sad:

This just makes me physically ill. I want to cry. Poor Beth and Dave.....crap.... :-x


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Port Valerie on November 30, 2007, 04:00:41 PM
Fox has it on. Greta commenting.

"It is absolutely stunning to me that if there's no new incriminating evidence that this prosecutor has done this. [Meaning, that he arrested them at all.] He looks foolish to me. ... I would expect that Joran VDS will follow suit very soon."



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: truthseeker2 on November 30, 2007, 04:01:05 PM
Greta was called by Renfro and Greta contacted Beth who had just turned on her phone.  Beth, just landing in Aruba, found out from Greta.

really nice how they had the timing of this bullshit all figured out.

They knew exactly what they were doing here - no mistake about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x

Yep!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: nonesuche on November 30, 2007, 04:01:06 PM
the MOS has a lot to answer for now


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 04:01:12 PM
sorry for the confusion
all i can say is i got an email and i took it as good news
and maybe i need to work on my translating   :2doh: :2doh: :2doh: :2doh:
will have to wait for the  conference  i guess

thanks...and it's Ok...you did your best

yes, i wont make any announcements anymore
i will keep my mouth shut regardless of what i receive



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 04:01:21 PM
Greta was called by Renfro and Greta contacted Beth who had just turned on her phone.  Beth, just landing in Aruba, found out from Greta.

poor Beth..you know that freaking ass hole witch renHo loved calling greta with that slimy news


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 04:02:03 PM
i guess it is possible that K2 have squeeeled

we can hope


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: blah on November 30, 2007, 04:02:30 PM
Greta on the phone on Fox and she is reporting she just spoke with Renho to confirm it.  Greta called Beth as she is taxing on the runway in Aruba just arriving and broke the news to her.  She said she could tell her voice change immediately when she heard.  Greta is stunned by the decision!   

this is a message from a corrupt judge directly to Beth. 

No friggen doubt about it.

No way is the timing and coincidence.

This is bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 04:02:38 PM
the MOS has a lot to answer for now

this will be interesting


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: snoopy on November 30, 2007, 04:02:43 PM
sorry for the confusion
all i can say is i got an email and i took it as good news
and maybe i need to work on my translating   :2doh: :2doh: :2doh: :2doh:
will have to wait for the  conference  i guess

thanks...and it's Ok...you did your best

yes, i wont make any announcements anymore
i will keep my mouth shut regardless of what i receive



It's ok Robots.  We've all made mistakes buddy.  Don't beat yourself up.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Frank on November 30, 2007, 04:02:49 PM
Does anyone know how many days total Deepak has been held in jail and how many Joran has spent in jail since the beginning?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Port Valerie on November 30, 2007, 04:03:25 PM
Does anyone know how many days total Deepak has been held in jail and how many Joran has spent in jail since the beginning?

Not nearly enough.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 30, 2007, 04:03:33 PM
sorry for the confusion
all i can say is i got an email and i took it as good news
and maybe i need to work on my translating   :2doh: :2doh: :2doh: :2doh:
will have to wait for the  conference  i guess






No worried Robots !! Bunny still luvs yah  :cool:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 04:03:34 PM
I didn't mean it was funny if Mos is a jerk - I was being sarcastic.  I certainly hope he knows what he is doing and didn't let us down.

it's Ok canary.....emotions are little ticklish right now.... :sad:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: snoopy on November 30, 2007, 04:03:44 PM
Greta was called by Renfro and Greta contacted Beth who had just turned on her phone.  Beth, just landing in Aruba, found out from Greta.

poor Beth..you know that freaking ass hole witch renHo loved calling greta with that slimy news

I like to smack that smirk right off her face.  You know she took delight in making that call.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Canary on November 30, 2007, 04:03:51 PM
Black-Tulip  PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:01 pm         

ORANJESTAD - De rechter heeft het bezwaar afgewezen tegen de beperkingen die zijn opgelegd aan Joran van der Sloot. Dat heeft zijn advocaat Ariean de Bie vrijdagmiddag (lokale tijd) op Aruba gemeld.


Appeal for Joran dismissed.

from RU


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: truthseeker2 on November 30, 2007, 04:04:03 PM
Greta was called by Renfro and Greta contacted Beth who had just turned on her phone.  Beth, just landing in Aruba, found out from Greta.

poor Beth..you know that freaking ass hole witch renHo loved calling greta with that slimy news

I think if I were Beth at this point I would get the hell of that rock.  Who knows, they may try to arrest Beth and Dave next. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: igsigs on November 30, 2007, 04:04:32 PM
the MOS has a lot to answer for now

Yes he does none. I still find it hard to believe he is another Dompig...we will soon find out.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on November 30, 2007, 04:04:38 PM
Does anyone know how many days total Deepak has been held in jail and how many Joran has spent in jail since the beginning?

Not nearly enough.


No, I'm sorry I don't. But it would NEVER be enough...



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 04:04:40 PM
sorry for the confusion
all i can say is i got an email and i took it as good news
and maybe i need to work on my translating   :2doh: :2doh: :2doh: :2doh:
will have to wait for the  conference  i guess

thanks...and it's Ok...you did your best

yes, i wont make any announcements anymore
i will keep my mouth shut regardless of what i receive



It's ok Robots.  We've all made mistakes buddy.  Don't beat yourself up.
ty
my translating sucks



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 30, 2007, 04:05:26 PM
the MOS has a lot to answer for now

 I just talked to Cuz..   :-| She was at work and didn't know. Shes upset.
Hopefully k2 ratted out joran or some shit? I dunno.. this is all so confusing.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Canary on November 30, 2007, 04:05:45 PM
But the rest of the article on www.nu.nl says Joran now can read literature (just not recent articles) and can sport in jail. So at least some measures are being revoked, arent they?

from same poster at RU


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 04:05:49 PM
Greta on the phone on Fox and she is reporting she just spoke with Renho to confirm it.  Greta called Beth as she is taxing on the runway in Aruba just arriving and broke the news to her.  She said she could tell her voice change immediately when she heard.  Greta is stunned by the decision!   

I hope there are people with Beth....someone to give her a big hug


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Port Valerie on November 30, 2007, 04:06:16 PM
sorry for the confusion
all i can say is i got an email and i took it as good news
and maybe i need to work on my translating   :2doh: :2doh: :2doh: :2doh:
will have to wait for the  conference  i guess

thanks...and it's Ok...you did your best

yes, i wont make any announcements anymore
i will keep my mouth shut regardless of what i receive



It's ok Robots.  We've all made mistakes buddy.  Don't beat yourself up.
ty
my translating sucks



Well, you're 89. We don't expect much.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: snoopy on November 30, 2007, 04:06:58 PM
Greta on the phone on Fox and she is reporting she just spoke with Renho to confirm it.  Greta called Beth as she is taxing on the runway in Aruba just arriving and broke the news to her.  She said she could tell her voice change immediately when she heard.  Greta is stunned by the decision!  

I hope there are people with Beth....someone to give her a big hug

Please don't tell me she's alone.  Surely not?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 04:07:09 PM
sorry for the confusion
all i can say is i got an email and i took it as good news
and maybe i need to work on my translating   :2doh: :2doh: :2doh: :2doh:
will have to wait for the  conference  i guess

thanks...and it's Ok...you did your best

yes, i wont make any announcements anymore
i will keep my mouth shut regardless of what i receive



It's ok Robots.  We've all made mistakes buddy.  Don't beat yourself up.
ty
my translating sucks



Well, you're 89. We don't expect much.



yes,

maybe i should have been wearing my reading glasses



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 04:07:21 PM
Fox has it on. Greta commenting.

"It is absolutely stunning to me that if there's no new incriminating evidence that this prosecutor has done this. [Meaning, that he arrested them at all.] He looks foolish to me. ... I would expect that Joran VDS will follow suit very soon."

for Greta :smt097 :smt097 :smt097 :smt097 :smt097


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: chelebele on November 30, 2007, 04:07:45 PM
Robots  - I was excited as heck when I left to go get my son from school...at least you gave me fifteen minutes of happiness....it's ok....we know you weren't trying to mislead us.... :smt052


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Starr on November 30, 2007, 04:08:03 PM
sorry for the confusion
all i can say is i got an email and i took it as good news
and maybe i need to work on my translating   :2doh: :2doh: :2doh: :2doh:
will have to wait for the  conference  i guess

thanks...and it's Ok...you did your best

yes, i wont make any announcements anymore
i will keep my mouth shut regardless of what i receive




Robots

I for one really appreciate that you tried.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Frank on November 30, 2007, 04:08:11 PM
What does joran's appeal being dismissed mean?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Angiex911dsptchr on November 30, 2007, 04:08:30 PM
Greta was called by Renfro and Greta contacted Beth who had just turned on her phone.  Beth, just landing in Aruba, found out from Greta.


 :sad:

 Renho is a f***ing BITCH..  I saw a post of hers on RU earlier todday, about the Earthquake that hit the carribean..she said Maybe it was Beth landing.

 :smt097 :smt097 Renho and Your mama SID too.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: Canary on November 30, 2007, 04:09:03 PM
Well, if it was the same judge, he didn't allow Joran to see anybody - just to read old stuff and exercise and have a Bible so this doesn't sound all that good for Joran - let's hope the Kalpoe's were only minimally involved and that's why they were let go. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on November 30, 2007, 04:09:09 PM
I wonder if the Kalpoes sang?  And it makes me wonder if Paulus will get picked up?  Probably not, but I can always hope...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: SunnyinTX on November 30, 2007, 04:09:36 PM
sorry for the confusion
all i can say is i got an email and i took it as good news
and maybe i need to work on my translating   :2doh: :2doh: :2doh: :2doh:
will have to wait for the  conference  i guess

thanks...and it's Ok...you did your best

yes, i wont make any announcements anymore
i will keep my mouth shut regardless of what i receive

don't do that....you have contributed greatly and will continue to do so.....you BELIEVE!!  translating is a bitch ...you DID YOUR BEST and that's all anyone can ask


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 04:09:43 PM
sorry for the confusion
all i can say is i got an email and i took it as good news
and maybe i need to work on my translating   :2doh: :2doh: :2doh: :2doh:
will have to wait for the  conference  i guess

thanks...and it's Ok...you did your best

yes, i wont make any announcements anymore
i will keep my mouth shut regardless of what i receive




Robots

I for one really appreciate that you tried.

ty
as soon as i received it, i put it here..
and no where else

not that it did any good BUT i wont make that mistake again

again. im sorry


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: tcumom on November 30, 2007, 04:10:22 PM
sorry for the confusion
all i can say is i got an email and i took it as good news
and maybe i need to work on my translating   :2doh: :2doh: :2doh: :2doh:
will have to wait for the  conference  i guess
You meant well, and that's what counts.   :smt056 
Everything's so up and down and emotionally exhausting.   :sad:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: MuffyBee on November 30, 2007, 04:11:15 PM
Robots ~  I think your heart was in the right place.  Let it go.  We are all on an emotional rollercoaster :sad:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: robots on November 30, 2007, 04:11:18 PM
sorry for the confusion
all i can say is i got an email and i took it as good news
and maybe i need to work on my translating   :2doh: :2doh: :2doh: :2doh:
will have to wait for the  conference  i guess

thanks...and it's Ok...you did your best

yes, i wont make any announcements anymore
i will keep my mouth shut regardless of what i receive

don't do that....you have contributed greatly and will continue to do so.....you BELIEVE!!  translating is a bitch ...you DID YOUR BEST and that's all anyone can ask

well, next time i will wear my glasses

there is still hope that Joran has been Pinned and k2 are going to testify against him

mmmmmmmmmmm...doesnt that sound good  :lol:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
Post by: San on November 30, 2007, 04:11:39 PM
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/Scared%20Monkeys/LOCKED.gif)

Please move to NCD #698

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2405.new#new