Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/NH.gif)

:)

Greta did not know if Dave was oon the same flight with Beth.  I wonder what time they are supposed to meet with Mos?

Joran's motion dismissed means I think only that the judge made the decision and the decision was no TV, no parents and visitors, only old magazines and books and some exercise - that's what I got out of RU - but I could be wrong


But Joran did not get a really good ruling - so that is a very good sign I think....I hope

 you stinker,., you're always first !  :cool:

I hope someone carries the press conference.

 I certainly hope so as well !

me too...I'm getting sick of looking at the outside of Hillary's office....it's all that's on...

I have believed in Mos from the beginning......but my trust is now shaking....A LOT!  Was the a carefully orchestrated release.with Dave and Beth arriving?? ..I know Mos didn't do the releasing....did he not present enough to hold them? Does he has more? ..who was the frigging judge??  Why in the hell didn't they bring a new judge or three in from Holland to handle these proceeding??

At least...

Hans knows that he must speak. But it is hard to imagine how he will wriggle out of this....

Angie, do you know what time the press conference is supposed to be?  I'm gonna be heading out of town soon.

I hope to canary....I hope too

This is all just so wrong.....so wrong.  :smt009

This is not neccessarily bad news about the Kalpoes being released.  Let's wait and hear what Mos has to say.  What really would of been bad, is if the kept the 2k's and released Baby Huey; then we would know for sure the 2k's have been chosen as the sacrificial lambs

and can they still try them for anything since they've been released, or does that mean they won't be tried because there isn't enough evidence?

Me Too!  There supposed to be doing a presser soon too in NH.  It will probably be the same time as Mos's and they'll show NH first :(

He has it all planned  :cool:

From Greta's blog:

November 30th, 2007 4:12 PM Eastern

How Would You Like THIS ?? My Timing On The Call Was Lousy
by Greta Van Susteren

When news broke that the Kalpoes would be or are released from jail in Aruba I immediately hit the phones. I was told by a good source in Aruba that it is indeed true.

I then called Beth Holloway….she answered her phone….I could hear noise in the background….I said, “where are you?” She said, “we just landed in Aruba…I just turned on my cell phone ….we are on the taxi way headed to the terminal….”

I then had the horrible job of explaining my call. Her voice dropped. She is very disappointed. We talked briefly and she was unsure whether she would just turn around and return to the USA or spend the night. As I noted, she is very disappointed. She was in Aruba in hopes of getting answers about her daughter…remember, that so called “new incriminating evidence.”

She said her plane was turning around in an hour and going back to the USA and that she might just see if she could buy a ticket and re-board.. She was in Aruba to speak to the new Chief Prosecutor but now the trip seemed to lack any purporse. I told her I would call her in an hour. She said ok.

Ren~Ho don't give a ratz ass about  Beth..  The sjank posted THIS about the earthquake. Ren~ho is probably having a big orgasm at the moment..  Calling Greta to report Kalpoes release,,  <sorry to be gross>



Glenda Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:43 pm

I thought that shake was Beth landing on Aruba.

As far as Dave goes, we're aren't confirming that he is on his way are we? I can't find where he said he is going to Aruba?

OT!
 
EVEL KNIEVEL HAD DIED

Frank ... I concede ... your incite was right on ... I was unkowningly ... once again ... on the Aruban roller coaster with all the Monkey.

If the news is accurate and ... the Kalpoes have been released ... I suspect that all the happenings of the past week were a collaborated last hurrah by Aruba prior to closing the Natalee Holloway case and ... the prosecutor had zilch or ... the judges ... Paulus' friends and associates ... are disregarding the evidence.

Either way ... my heart breaks for Natalee's family and ... I am sooo angry.

If the  Dutch and Aruban administrations were serious in regards to their desire that justice for Natalee Holloway prevails ... an outside investigative agency ... one whose members have no personal or professional relationship with Paulus van der Sloot would be requested.  I cannot comprehend how the Dutch and Arubans are allowed to investigate ... prosecute and ... judge their own.  What is the definition of "conflict of interest" under Dutch law?

Janet

+++++++++++++++++++

Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
October 4, 2005

GRACE:  Jossy, regarding the connection, what I perceived to be a close connection between the judge, Paulus Van Der Sloot and the retired chief of police who initially handled Natalee`s case, Van Der Stratten, were they friends?

MANSUR: Of course, they were friends. It stands to reason they were friends because Paul Van Der Sloot had many friends within the police department; he had many friends within the Department of Justice. And he had many friends with -- and he was friendly with all the judges in Aruba. He worked out of the same office as they did and did the same work.

All very good questions.  I don't if this was a 'blunder' by Mos or if the evidence was not strong or if the judge is an idiot.

 Casa.. 4:30? 5:30? Not sure.. but CUZ asked me to call back if i hear more since shes stuck at work.   :-|

I think it means that MOS just didn't present enough evidence.  They can still be brought to trial with more evidence.  Geez who the heck knows.

We should know more after Hans speaks - but i think that they can still be charged.

This just breaks my heart. I am praying for Beth right now...

All of this sad news for Beth and thoughts of changing her travel plans and meeting with Mos, based on her good source, Julia Renfro.

Glad that you are keeping in touch with her!  I am headed out of town for the week end.  I will be away from a tv or computer until about 5:30 or 6.  If you hear anything that I should know give me a call on my cell.  I'm gonna go by and check on the Cuz before I leave town in about 45 minutes. Thanks Angie! 

Everyone keep the faith and continue to hope!  As long as Joran is still being held I'm going to try to be confident!

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/11/30/

A badly informed lawyer


By: Jossy M. Mansur

Once again this man, who thinks himself a star lawyer, has given various televised interviews in which he unfortunately proves that he has no control over his emotions, and uttered one nonsense after the other in angry tone he could not camouflage! What is he looking for really? Popularity? This certainly is not the way to achieve his goal!

I have an immense regard for Greta, but I can't understand why she gives this man the last word and doesn't let us confront him. Neither does she with the facts of the case, which Greta is fully aware of, I'm sure. Maybe in the US, there might be some people that are afraid of his tongue and temper, but with me, he is climbing the wrong tree!

How does a lawyer who pretends to have any class, say that what I've quoted from Joran's deposition isn't true? I again publish this document in the original Dutch, with a translation in English. This should put duct tape on Tacopina's mouth.

In the referred document, Joran said to four Aruban police officers that he thinks he might know where Natalee's body is buried, and that he thinks that Deepak went back to the beach where the girl was lying on the sand, raped and killed Natalee, and afterward buried her close to the first fishermen's hut! And he also wants to ignore a taped conversation in a police car, where the three suspects (Joran, Deepak and Satish were sitting in the back seat), trying to make his client, Joran, come out "innocent" in his confrontation with Deepak. Does this lawyer know how to read? Or is he simply dumb? Deepak said directly to Joran (and the police have this tape!): "if they find the girl, you are looking at 15 years in prison! What did he mean by that? That Joran is "innocent" or "guilty" of something that will send him behind bars for so many years? Can this big-mouthed lawyer understand this? Or does he only want to impose his street style here too? Attacking my evidence based on real facts won't help his client, and if he doesn't stop painting Joran like an angel, I'll find myself forced to publish everything we have found out about him since he was 8 years old! He is certainly no "angel", believe me!

Let Tacopina understand once and for all that I have 33 years of journalism in Aruba behind me, and that if the American media ask for my comments, it is because they are aware that I know more than Tacopina thinks! Could he possibly be trying to break my credibility with the American People, by his clownish acts on TV? I've always spoken the truth to them! I have nothing to hide from anyone. My relationship with David Kock and Ronny Wix, the defense lawyers for the Kalpoe brothers is excellent! They have the professional ethics that Tacopina lacks and a good sense in the practice of law, of that I'm sure!

In my opinion, Paulus committed a critical error when he hired Tacopina to defend Joran, because he doesn't know our environment, he is not up-to-date directly on what happened to Natalee, and all his "knowledge" seems to come from what he has read about the case. I'm sure he doesn't have half of the documents that DIARIO has. Furthermore, we have additional documents that no other media can even dream of having, and that's because we are serious journalists that respect authorities and cooperate with them when asked to do so.

I've said on Greta's show that the three suspects know very well what happened to Natalee, because they were the last ones that were with her on the night of her disappearance. Forget about the tales that from Carlos and Charlies they left her at the Holiday Inn or at the beach close to the Marriott! The story about going behind the Lighthouse to see sharks also leaves lots of doubts. There are contradicting testimonies from Joran, Deepak and Satish! Joran said that they went to his apartment from Carlos and Charlies; the Kalpoe brothers have completely denied that statement. They have declared to the police that they didn't go to that apartment! Which party is telling the truth? And Joran declared that Deepak picked him up at the beach, but Deepak denied that allegation. And then Joran said it was Satish that picked him up! But Satish also denied that he picked him up! The big question Tacopina has to answer is: How did Joran get back home that night? Did he walk? Did Paulus pick him up? Or was there someone else?

And can Tacopina explain to us how his client did the miracle of letting his shoes grow from size 11 to size 14 in one night?

These are some of the discrepancies that authorities have been investigating again, because they don't make any sense! For instance, what was the real relationship between Joran and Koen? Why did he leave the island one or two days after Natalee disappeared? Why, when Art Wood and Dave, Natalee's father, asked authorities to interrogate him, it wasn't done? Why hasn't he been interrogated so far? My reliable sources tell me that Koen knows exactly what happened that night!

If Tacopina thinks that we're not aware of ALL the details of this case, he is badly mistaken! The truth is that we honor our word and will not reveal what we know from our police and judicial sources when asked not to do so! What is said to us in trust will never be betrayed, because then we would be betraying our principles!

I hope this case goes to Court as soon as possible, and if Joran, Deepak and Satish are innocent, they will be cleared by the judge. And if one or more are guilty, this also will be determined by the evidence presented to the presiding Judge. My advice to Tacopina? Stay in the US! Your presence in Aruba will only cause more harm to Joran! Believe me!

Beth must meet with the prosecutor regardless!

She must look him in the eyes!!!

Please anyone who can contact her, Red, she must confront Mos!

 HI Frank  .. this was posted earlier....


Beth & Dave to Meet on Saturday w/ Chief Prosecutor

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) -- The chief prosecutor in the Natalee Holloway investigation has agreed to meet Saturday with the parents of the missing Alabama teen, who is presumed dead.


Natalee Holloway disappeared while on vacation in Aruba with classmates in 2005.

"I'm really anxious to meet him," Beth Holloway told CNN. "I've waited a long time for this meeting."

A lawyer for Beth Holloway contacted prosecutor Hans Mos last week after suspects Joran van der Sloot and brothers Satish and Deepak Kalpoe were arrested on suspicion of manslaughter.

"There's no doubt in my mind that [Natalee Holloway] is dead. ... I think we have enough evidence to prove the girl is not alive anymore, even without a body," Mos said last week.

Natalee Holloway's mother said she has hope that Mos will be able to solve the case.

"He seems great. The case seems to be handled well. I'm going to ask him some long-awaited questions," she said.

The family is encouraged that the meeting will take place, Holloway attorney John Kelly told CNN. Two years ago, the previous chief prosecutor -- who has since returned to the Netherlands -- would not sit down with them.

Kelly said Beth Holloway and her ex-husband, Dave, want to share information they've gathered since their daughter disappeared in May 2005 while on vacation with about 100 classmates. See a timeline of the case »

Neither he nor Beth Holloway would provide details.

Questions about evidence

Lawyers for the three suspects were in court in Aruba on Thursday on behalf of their clients. They argued that last week's rearrests were baseless and that prosecutors have no new evidence against their clients. They said they have no idea what happened to Holloway.

As he rushed out of the closed hearing before a judge, van der Sloot's lawyer told CNN that authorities have no reason to hold van der Sloot in jail again as they did two years ago. He said the so-called new incriminating evidence is worthless.

"To say it's less than nothing is too much. But it's not very much. It's very, very thin," Ariean de Bie said.

Van der Sloot's parents were allowed to provide him with a Bible but no other reading materials, the lawyer said. Van der Sloot is forbidden from seeing any visitors and can meet only with his lawyers and interrogators.

De Bie said van der Sloot has not provided authorities with any new information since his rearrest and extradition from the Netherlands, where he'd been attending college. He said his client would rather be anywhere than in a prison cell.

"He's not very happy about it," the attorney said.

Van der Sloot's co-counsel -- New York attorney Joe Tacopina -- said he has no doubt his client is innocent.

"Whatever they're holding in their bag, whatever they don't want to show anyone ... it's not going to amount to a hill of beans against Joran van der Sloot because he had no involvement in Natalee's disappearance," Tacopina told CNN.

Tacopina said he'll be in Aruba next week and try to meet with van der Sloot in his jail cell.

Attorneys for the Kalpoe brothers will meet with a judge in separate jailhouse hearings Friday to argue that their clients should be set free and not held another eight days.

A judge will decide whether prosecutors can continue to hold the Kalpoes even longer.

Van der Sloot will have a similar hearing next Friday when prosecutors are expected to ask to keep him jailed another 60 days.

Mos has said he hopes to decide by the end of the year whether he will try all three suspects for Holloway's presumed death, which he suggests was an accident. The prosecutor won't say what his new evidence is until his investigation is complete.

New search for remains

The Holloways still have not given up the search for their daughter. In fact, a benefactor is donating an estimated $500,000 to help map the waters offshore.

On Thursday, Natalee's father watched Louis Schaeffer's crew load a boat equipped with the latest sonar equipment and a remote operated vehicle (ROV) to search the waters where Holloway's remains might be.

"I've got a feeling that if she's in the ocean, these guys are gonna find her," Dave Holloway said. "No doubt about it." Watch an interview with Natalee Holloway's father »

Schaeffer said he's retired, has the money, and was touched by the Holloways' tragedy and wanted to help.

"My only objective is to find Natalee, to bring her home for Dave and Beth and also to help identify the people that did this to her. This is a terrible thing, an injustice, and I want to help solve the case," said Schaeffer.

"We've known since [May 2005], the FBI told us Natalee's not with us anymore," Dave Holloway said.

The boat is expected to take about 10 days to get to Aruba. It'll take a few more days to set up a search.

The family says it has no new information about where to look. The Holloways just want to exhaust every area they can offshore with equipment that wasn't available to them two years ago.


Thanks to Schaefer, that's changed.

"We are just so thankful that he's got a big heart and willing to do that," Dave Holloway said. E-mail to a friend

CNN's Tracy Sabo contributed to this report.

Beth needs to get the hell out of Aruba and fast.

UNBELIEVABLE.
   :-? :sad:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxXZSa1rYC8

CNN originally said Mos conference at 4:30 Eastern time.........don't know if they took aruba island time into consideration.........

  Will do Casa  :)

Casa,
Please give her a hug from us and let her know we're praying...

Thanks for going to check on her, sweetie  :lol:

Thanks Klaas

Carpe, it almost sounds like Greta was crying at the beginning of that...

Posted on the front page of SM:

EURobert wrote:

I haven’t given up all hope yet. There could be a possibility that the two are released because there’s no necessity to hold them longer in order to continue the investigation / interrogation of JvdS. Maybe they are not allowed to leave the island.

It’s still open…

I told you this was all a sham.  Such a shame.   Just another aruban fiasco.

Go Jossy!!

Greta on.

Kalpoes being released as we speak.

Apparently the judge is unconvinced that there's incriminating new evidence.

Greta called Beth, had to tell her. Her voice sunk. Beth is there in Aruba to meet with Mos. Was profoundly disappointed, said "I might just get back on this plane and go back to the US.'

Bottom line, a judge is not convinced that the "new evidence" is new or that it's incriminating or both.

So says Greta.

This case is closed..guys. Face it!  Evil wins again...there will be no justice for Natalee...ever. My heart can't take it anymore...I can't imagine what the family is feeling.  Hans Mos was playing us all and the Dutch will forever be linked to the unsolved disappearance of Natalee Holloway.  FOREVER!!!

Hell yeah Frank.... She should meet with him. At least make him tell her face to face.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/30/aruba.holloway/index.html

Brothers to be freed in Natalee Holloway case

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) -- Two of the suspects being held in connection with Natalee Holloway's presumed death will be released from custody.

Prosecutors wanted Deepak and Satish Kalpoe held in Aruba for another eight days, but a judge rejected their request Friday, according to a prosecution spokesman.

A third man, Joran van der Sloot, is still being held in the case.

The three were the last people to be seen with the Alabama teen before she disappeared in May 2005.

They were all re-arrested last week.

I'm not going to allow myself to get as NEGATIVE about this as some of you.  I really get tired of the defeatist attitude.

So..I'm going to the store, brb.

I agree Frank,  I couldn't leave without confronting him, though I can also understand her feelings too.  I hope Dave is there or gets there soon, so she is not alone.

let's just see what Mos says at the press conference...But I know how you feel. I feel like we've all been duped (again). Let's concentrate on Beth right now and send her our strength and prayers. She must be sooooo devastated right now, but I do think she'll stay and meet with Mos. I really hope she's not alone...she's gone through more than one person should ever have to bear...

Well, I can understand Beth not wanting to at this point.  She has been lied to by people aon Aruba from day one.  What would be the point in listening to more BS coming from the God forsaken rock?

Let's wait and see if the Kalpoes leave the country. That would mean they squealed.

I'm with ya, Klaas!  Thanks for the Diario Article. 

Beth will not go back to the US. She will confront Mos about this. She is in this till the end.

I DO have some small hopes in the fact they didn't release Joran nor give him everything he wanted.  Maybe K2's gave some incrimitating info. (finally seeing they were going to take the fall).   I wanna hear Mos.!  I hope it's not the same time as news conf. in NH! 

Hi,  I was in a state of shock listening to the breaking news on TV, but in being interviewed I heard Greta explain about the arrests.  The arrests of the K2's was a prosecutors call and not due to any new evidence examined by a judge.

Such was not the case for Joran, as he was in Holland, and the judge made the decision to have him arrested, evidently on this new evidence.

Did anyone else hear this?  I was in such a state I can't remember who Greta was talking to?  lol

CNN Headline news just reported they won't be released until tomorrow.....
?

Lord!  I hope so!

Maybe they are being sent somewhere for their own protection. That would mean they talked.

I heard that on Fox too.  Beth really needs to stay and talk to Mos..   I would hope he doesn't make them wait until tomorrow now.  Maybe he will meet with them asap.

I'm with you Kaas; i'm willing to wait until all the cards have been laid out on the table.  Something's going on, we just don't know what it is and I don't think this is going to turn out to be a bad thing.  PATIENCE PEOPLE!!

All along we have been advising the Kalpoes to talk and rat out Joran and now that this may have been what happened, we lose all hope.  The ballgame is not over.  We are in the 4th quarter, but let's wait.  I am hoping the reason the Kalpoes have been released is because they have spilled the beans and so has Freddy.

Greta is only speculating.  She doesn't know what info the prosecutor has at this point 

I think Beth should leave Aruba immediately.  Again...I would not be at all surprised if they tried some BS arrest of her today.

I'm choosing to hold out hope as long as Joran's in custody--maybe this just means they're not going to allow him to pin it all on the Kalpoes.

Oh nooooo..... I just got off work and have a little while at my friends house waiting for her to get home and doing a load of laundry cause my washing machine just bit the dust, log and and hear that k2 have been released?????

Hey girl !

Yep.. but dunno why as of yet?   :-x

Ia m absolutely torn down the middle...part of me think this is just Bullcrap...well planned and executed....the have still wants to believe...so I am just gonna go get drunk!!

Hi Cubbee......thats what being reported...they WILL Be released

I'm not jumping ship. Remember, it was supposedly Joran who was the one "infiltrated."  It has been Taco wildly pointing the blame off his client and onto the Kalpoes. This "release" flies in the face of Joe T.
Let's wait and see what Mos has to say. Did he gamble that the tiny bits of information he let out was just enough to detain them? Should he have exposed more of his hand?
I don't know. I just think there is a lot more here than meets the eye.

 :lol:  Sounds like fun Sunny..  :wink:

Last time they were released instantly, weren't they?

Look, released is released. Not-released is not-released.

They're still in jail tonight.

Need pictures. Like last time -- Kalpoes exiting jail with black plastic bags with their belongings, Nadira greeting them with smiles and hugs. Till then, who knows for sure?

This just truly breaks my heart, I am sitting here reading this and looking at a picture of little Kaitlin on her mothers computer desk and feeling very angry and very depressed...

Angielala, please call me soon!!!

Don't get down everyone..Let Beth and Dave speak to Hans Mos from the heart. Everyone knows it was a coverup and we are all still waiting for that to be exposed. And if it never is then Americans should boycott the hell out of Aruba!!

well it's five o'clock somewhere and  I hear margaritas calling my name...LOUDLY!!

 I will

I'm not jumping ship yet, but tell me they are not waiting for Steve Cohen to arrive in Aruba.

Man when Mos says he wants to reenact the crime, he really means it. I guess we can expect 6 or 7 more arrests/

Yeah.

I walked away for a few minutes.  I said a prayer for Beth.  For Dave.  For Matt.  For Jug and Robin.  For justice.  I come back renewed.  IMO they're going after Joran.  This is not over.  Never give up hope.   

Don't be discouraged
Don't be disheartened
God is in control


Justice is coming

Thanks Scandi. If this is true, it does make me feel a wee bit (but not much) better...

 I agree OBS. I am trying my best to stay positive. but pissed at the same time.  :(

Hold on, Everyone; as we've all "heard" Mrs. Red say hundreds of times, "Keep the faith."  The powers that be in Aruba wouldn't dare jerk us (i.e. all we spectators and Natalee's family) around again.  There's no reason for them to do that.  They had distance, for whatever it was worth, behind them in this case.  If they weren't serious about solving this case, and believed these three were the key, there'd be no reason for them to go back to the height of their bad publicity.  They have something.  Remember the new prosecutor has publicly bragged that this case will not go unsolved on his watch.  There's no reason for him to say that if it only ends up making him look stupid and re-igniting the furor against Aruba.  He's confident for a reason.

Its 5 here. I need to go shower.. check back later ...   Have a few things I need to do.  :cool:

Hi Port Valerie,  I find myself stretching my imagination to wonder if mYbe Mos is down talking to the judge!  When this broke about an hour ago it was said they were being released as the reporter was speaking.  Could it be possible their being detained overnight is a new development?  I just don't know if this is possible under Aruban law, for the prosecutor to have a further say after the judge has made a ruling.

Lazlo at RU said it is because there is not enough evidence to hold them
Lazlo  PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:54 pm         

Probably mentioned already, but just in case, the Dutch media reports that the judge has ruled them to be released because he felt there was not enough evidence against Kalpoe brothers to hold them any longer.

I hope and pray that this is not over Snoopy....

If the Dutch wanted to find Natalee, why didn't THEY send a boat?

Yes and this doesn't mean that there isn't more evidence.  MOS is holding more.  Much more.

Dana's show tonight should be a classic!

Think of this as a poker game. You can throw in your hand now, or play your cards. This just needs to be played out. Remember the boat is still on its way. It's a card that could force them into jail for as they said, 15 years.

My guess would be they don't have a boat with the same capabilities as the one that is headed there now.

Ok...I have a frozen margarita in hand


something has been bothering me...Mos said he promised the k2's to close this by 12/31...that bothered me...

someone posted something today..copied from someplace...(no I am not drunk yet...just can't remember who posted it or from where)....deepak said to someone...tell the truth....cause his 8 days were over and he was walking out...HE KNEW he was being released.....

so..... have they been confront with what was learned from the 'new recordings' and did they confirm what ever and were promised to be set free if they gave evidence against the pervert killer???

I know I might be grasping at straws here...but I gotta go with the half of me that still believes

Well I am glad I have not placed any bets.
This is outrageous. BRING ON THE OTHER ARRESTS!! Sweaty running man must be jumping for joy just thinking that his nice boy will be released too. I hate these people, all of them.

De nada Mishy,  I am remaining positive too!  When I think that last night we were discussing Joran's claims that Deepak went back to the beach and raped and killed her, I think what were we doing?  Taking the word of a compulsive liar, planting such thoughts in our heads. 

That alone gives me hope, as if it were true I am sure with all of the investigating done the prosecutor would know this and have given the info to the judge.

But they have been a seafaring nation for several hundred years and are home to Phillips Electronics, Philco, etc. probably the largest electronics company in the world.  It's possible they don't have this exact equipment if it is truly new and still under strict patent but I find it hard to believe they don't have anything similar.

All electronics are Philco world wide it seems, even medical.

.

Anyone hear any more on the presser Mos was supposed to give this afternoon?  I've been flipping between stations and all they're talking about is that b--ch hilary clinton

the 8 day remark was from 2005. It was only repeated on the boards today.

Poor me a couple!

Latest from Greta

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsiO-jwsd6A

I intend to keep the faith also... remember , Christmas is a time of miracles!!

I know!  I can't sit here all afternoon waiting.  Am beginning to think there will not be a presser or if there is, we are not going to get to see it.

Didn't Deepak's attorney claim the other night that he had not been "questioned" since LAST Friday????? Hmmmm -- strange. Maybe the Kalpoe arrest was soley to confuse/addle Joran. Just a thought..

Hey Cubbee,

Big hugs to you sweetie!!!

Then there is also the possibility that the Kalpoes did in fact just drop Joran and Natalee off somewhere.

Charges can still be brought and they can still be tried, just not being held in jail until trial.  At least I hope.

I have been saying for a while my cast of suspects keeps shrinking.  I can see this as totally a Joran and Paulus screw up of some sort.  Maybe they left Joran and Natalee at the Sloot compound and went home and so were not directly involved in whatever happened after that.

Don't shoot me, just thinking out loud.

I do hope Beth will talk with Mos tomorrow as planned.

.

Lala ... with all my heart I believe that evil will not prevail as long as our God is still on the throne.

I never did believe that justice would prevail for Natalee Holloway as long as the power was in hands of those within Abruba Law Enforcement ... Aruban Prosecutors Office and ... the Aruban Justice System ... as long as the outcome was in the hands of those who had personal and professional connections to Paulus van der Sloot.

However ... the road to justice for Natalee Holloway may not have been travelled and ... when it is ... the "powers that be" in the Dutch/Aruban administrations who were involved in this corrupt investigation will have wished they had done what was right in June, 2005 ... pursued justice for Natalee Holloway.

I am hoping for FBI intervention once the case is closed.  After all ... Natalee Holloway is an American citizen who went missing on Aruban soil and ... was denied justice by a corrupt investigation ... an investigation that was riddled with conflicts of interest.

Janet

++++++++++++++

Art Wood
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 1, 2005

ART WOOD, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Absolutely. Absolutely. There's a lot that Americans can do through the State Department. I want to remind everybody that Natalee Holloway was a U.S. citizen. Once the Aruban authorities are done investigating this case, the FBI can still conduct an investigation.

 

I just read on Fox News.com that the K2's have been ordered released.  Is Joran far behind?

I guess maybe this was all a "desperate act" as was described by one of their attorney's... :roll:

Right back at ya mishy!

Lazlo RU



The dossier that now exsists about the two suspects, according to the judge would have severe suspicions against them, but would be to less to hold them any longer.
"Based on these facts, the pre arrest therefor is not allowed acc. to Dop Kruimel. "That was about destroying evidence of a crime, and hiding the body" On these charges is to less punishment to apply pre arrest.

Yes, the FBI can still conduct an investigation but unfortunately they just can't do it in Aruba without permission being granted and we know that would never happen.

This is it as far as these perps being brought to justice.  Mos has just got to make it work.

.

I think was Lazlo is reporting is that hte evidence is only that K2 were not part of the original crime but of coverup and that has less punishment than voluntary manslaughter so they get out of jail because the crime sentence is less for what they did than what Joran did...if that makes any sense to anybody.  Pre trial detention is for more serious crimes with longer terms in jail

That tells me a lot.
I think this the Dutch equivalent of "out on bail awaiting trial" on charges less severe than perhaps Joran.

I hope you are right, but I fear that is not the case.  Too much BS comes from Aruba and my hopes that a new invetigation would change all that are diminishing fast.  All I can think of is the level of disappointment Beth must feel right now.  I fear that this was never meant to hold anyone responsible, but possibly an attempt to make it appear that Aruba gave it their best shot....case closed. 

I hope Americans find somewhere else to vacation and Aruba can let Chavez take care of them from now on.  See how they like it when they can't support themselves without the tourist money and have to rely on a dictator for their pathetic survival.

And as for Renfroe....keep her sorry azz down there.  We don't want her and her diseases back here.

I agree Anna.  Only problem is...based on this "new evidence" not being enough to hold the K2's any longer...I'd be willing to bet money the same thing will happen to Joran as well.  As much as that hurts to admit, I am now almost positive the person(s) responsible for Natalee's disappearance will go through this life at least not having to pay for their crimes... :sad:

I think that's what she's saying, too, Canary.  Those are much lesser crimes and so they get to be out of jail until there is a trial.

But we should then see a very different result for Joran.

.

That's what I'm thinking too wreck.  And Mos is not going to lay everything out on the table yet.

It is so hard to post on this site - it keeps telling me new replies and won't let my post go thru!!

Dop Kruimel says the Kalpoes werent detained for manslaughter, but for disposing of the body and for destroying leads in this case. These delicts dont justify the detaining of the brothers at this point.


THE CHARGE WAS DIFFERENT

This Mos dude seems so fourth coming, I just cant imagine him
throwing himself to the wolves in this case

Things are getting clearer to me:

They are after JVS

the K2 are only being charged with destruction of evidence

The tapes or whatever from Holland implicate Joran and not really the K2's IMO.

by GWEN @ RU
2 Suspects to Be Freed in Holloway Case

Nov 30, 4:41 PM (ET)

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) - Two brothers re-arrested last week as suspects in the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway will be released from jail, a prosecutor said Friday.

The two brothers, Satish and Deepak Kalpoe, will be released by Saturday, prosecutor Dop Kruimel said.

"We have three days to launch an appeal, but we have to think about it," Kruimel said.

The prosecutor corrected a statement made earlier by Vinda de Sousa, an attorney for Dave Holloway, Natalee's father, who said they had already been released due to lack of evidence.

Their release will mark the third time that the brothers have been arrested and later released in the case. Both have denied having any role in her disappearance.

They and a third suspect who remains in jail, Joran van der Sloot, were the last known people to see Holloway alive before she vanished on May 30, 2005, hours before she was scheduled to return home to Alabama with fellow high school classmates celebrating their graduation. She was 18 at the time.

The three suspects were re-arrested on Nov. 21 on suspicion of involvement in Holloway's death. Authorities said they had "new incriminating evidence, but defense attorneys had complained that the new material amounted to little more than misunderstandings in the suspects' recorded conversations.

Van der Sloot's mother said Friday that she was happy for the Kalpoe brothers but did not whether the rulings mean anything for her son's case.

"I'm happy that something is happening," she said.


http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071130/D8T888001.html

Well, if this has all just been a Aruba blowing smoke, I for one think that it is blatantly cruel to do this to Natalee's family, at any time, but most especially during the holidays....

Makes perfect sense to me.  They left Joran somewhere with an alive Natalee and get a call sometime later that she is deceased.  They go back to help or are in the middle of assisting in hiding the remains the night when Beth arrives.  No wonder Paulus was sweating.  Bet he knew all about it as well.

All is not lost by far!  In fact, it may just be another step in tightening the noose around the neck of Joran, figuratively only of course.

I hope Beth will meet with Mos and get the low down on it all.  I continue to think they have Joran dead to rights on this.

.

Canary - it was a setting in your profile, I just fixed it for you.  Should be better now.

No doubt.  I'll be there!

I'm confused as to what this means....  I'm not comprehending, I guess..

Flashback to when Deepak and Satish were released in July, 2005  from custody ... while Joran's detention was extended.  The Kalpoes were rearrest at the end of August, 2005 ... new facts and evidence.  Nevetheless ... when all is said and done ... less than a week later ... in September, 2005 ... Joran, Deepak and Satish were all released without restrictions ... evidence was not sufficient and ... justice for Natalee Holloway did not prevail.

Why is there such a wide gulf between the prosecution's definition of evidence and ... the judges' definition of evidence?

Janet

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/NE121007.jpg)

This is on the FoxNews site:

"The judge in the case told Van Susteren that supposed new and incriminating evidence presented by the prosecutor in the case "was neither new or incriminating," and that he was preparing to order the release of the brothers."

No way the judge spoke to Greta. Ridiculous.

I don't have any money right now but OK, I'll just bet ya.  Joran is the one they are after in this as the one responsible for whatever happened to Natalee.  Drug dealers and body disposal are minor players.  It must have happened when Joran was alone with Natalee and the Kalpoes not present.

I think you're right on Anna!!   :-|

Kalpoe Charges

Canary writes: "Dop Kruimel says the Kalpoes werent detained for manslaughter, but for disposing of the body and for destroying leads in this case..."

Really?

That's not what the original news reports said.

This is starting to have that old Aruban 3 card monte feeling.  Where nobody can report or recite actual facts about actual factual happenings.

But if this is true, then it is sloot alone who is held for involuntary manslaughter and the Kalpoe's were essentially acessories after the fact.  This might be bad news for sloot.

.

I agree PV

I have to say that I don't like the idea of Beth being on Aruba or meeting with anyone without a bodyguard or JKelly at her side. Sorry, but I do not trust she is safe on that island. She's in my prayers for safety first, then heaven help her heart and what it's been through just today one more time.

OK, Klaas,

Jossy said duct tape and Joe T so here he goes!


(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Funny/2gx1ohe_th.png)

Posted by Lazlo at RU:


http://www.ad.nl/binnenland/article1863776.ece?nscategory=topStoryA

Hans Mos gave a graphic description of charge and I believe it is Voluntary Manslaughter.

I hope it is bad news for ditch boy,,,

I agree.  I think Beth needs to leave that island right now.  Let the prosecutor communicate through JQK. 

Hammer,

No, not involuntary manslaughter but VOLUNTARY according to explicit details from Hans Mos in the Greta interview.

And he used graphic violent examples for this such as hitting a person on the head with an ax.

.

I vote we tape him up head to toe like a mummy !!!

The judge said SEVERE SUSPICIONS against the Kalpoes.  It's just that their charges are so much less than Sloots.  For that reason they are being released pending charges and a trial.

Up next on the Big Story - Fox,  Aruba update (probably the same).  Hopefully they have the presser soon.   Wonder if Greta's spoken to Beth again, she was s'posed to call her back in an hour.

Don't you also wonder if Greta revealed to Beth "oh Renfro called me with the news" ?

Would she be that insensitive? I am beginning to think the answer is yes  :sad:

On GretaBlog

FRIDAY UPDATE, 5:35pm - just spoke to John Q. Kelly….he is in Aruba with Natalee’s parents…it sounds like their meeting with the Chief Prosecutor will go forward…

Thank God!

Correction Hammer - VOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER

Yes! 

I think what Mos was trying to do was to charge the Kalpoes as just as culpable as Joran for assisting in the body disposal and hiding evidence. The judge decided that their involvement did not rise to equal culpability as "Voluntary Manslaughter." All this means is that they will be only tried as accessories -- not manslaughter. (I think they SHOULD be held just as accountable -- but I can live with decision so long as Joran (and Paulus) are nailed to the wall)

Voluntary, Not Involuntary

Right.  Thanks for correction.  I actually knew that.

And since Mos had provided details and explanations of the charges "against the suspects"  THEN he should have been just as clear in stating that these charges applied to sloot only.

Isn't this the first time anyone here or elsewhere is hearing the Kalpoe's were being held for "disposing of body" and "destroying evidence?"

So Kalpoes are held on crime of destroying evidence -- but have to be released because there isn't enough evidence to hold them longer? 

That's Aruban justice for you.

.

 

Yes and maybe by arresting all 3 of them with voluntary manslaughter charges was enough to make 2K tell all they knew. 

Ugh!!! Tito in the phone with FOX.  Can barely understand him.

Glad to hear JQK is in Aruba with Beth and Dave

I think Mos is only guilty of trying to over-prosecute the Kalpoes. (Again, I think the Kalpoes should be fried as well -- but I can see the Judge's point)

Mos said he would drop the case in 30 days if it was not prosecutable. He didnt have enough to hold the Kalpoes in detention. He wouldnt be sandbagging if he was going to charge in 30 days. He would put up enough new evidence to hold them for charges. He did say this detention was a "last attempt" to get to the truth.

well said Hammer, it's not as if Mos didn't have ample opportunity to state it all correctly in his interviews.

I'm so relieved to know JKelly is there also, thank you Dihannah, I hope he lets his knuckles show a bit for I'm unsure if anything less than that gets an ounce of truth out of Aruba.

Yes! I think it's extremely important this meeting takes place for many reasons..It should be interesting what Mos tells them about the fine police work of Van Der Straaten and Jacobs and the rest of them that killed this case.

Since when do Murder and Kidnapping suspects get immunity from having there houses searched? Confessions that were retracted and blood that turned into chocolate? Paul Van Der Sloots best friend was the Police Chief are you kidding me?? BS!!  :wink:

Klass thanks for fixing my posting situation.

It has always been my belief that JVS did the deed and the Kalpoes were accessories so I am not too upset by this  YET!

The judge seems to be somehow agreeing that though there is serious evidence the Kalpoes were accessories after the fact, as we call it, this is not as serious a charge and therefore they don't need to stay in jail until and if convicted.  I remember reading these rules in Dutch law - that the pretrial detention or accusation detention was not as easy for a lesser crime. 

oh lordy...thanks...that has bothered me all aftrnoon

Beth may or may not have been surprised.  You know Julia Renfro and Greta are playing to the masses and trying to hype their suffering images.  Beth may have pretended to be surprised and not really at all. 

I doubt Beth will leave until she meets with Mos anymore than I would.  I would fight the devil and a circle saw if it was my child that had died in that pigsty and I wanted to bring it back home away from prostitute island. 

di ....I have frozen margaritas.....a whole pitcher full!

Once again people:

Mos did not lie to us. He TRIED to hold the Kalpoes to the same crime as Joran -- "Voluntary Manslaughter." The Kalpoes were not released for "lack of evidence." They were released because their involvement was not "Voluntary Manslaughter." The Kalpoes are not "off-the-hook"!!
This is probably why the Kalpoes were not released "immediately." They are still facing a trial. No one is "cleared" of wrongdoing.

Jossy will be my 1st guest tonight, actually of of my guests will discuss the story.
I wont be catering to Joe Tacopina like other shows do.

Well pour me one, would ya?

DANA - be sure to check your email, I've been sending you the questions for Jossy.

I'll be listening, Dana.  I hope Jossy can shed more light on what is really going on down there.  Thanks for what you do not just for Natalee, but for all the stories you cover.

thank God is right!!!

well it's half a pitcher now...but I got a big one for you!!

Posted by SMS at RU:

From cnn reporter:

Han Mos says it's a setback and a bit of a surprise that the judge decided to set them free.

Not enough to hold them for pre trial


Reading from the release of judges ruling:

New evidence together with existing evidence in this case file does produce serious grounds for the suspicion of some kind of aiding and abetting of covering up the traces of a crime committed or the disposing of a corpse. However it goes on to say that even the combination of either of those is not enough to keep these two suspects in pretrial detention any longer.


So Han MOs saying again it's a setback but he does have three days to lodge an appeal with the court of appeals here.
 
But that wont be enough to stand in the way of the release of these two suspects, the Kalpoe brothers tomorrow at 4pm.

Joran will be there until at least Dec. 7th

Reporters were told that the new evidence was the same for all three suspects. (my question - told by whom, the defense attorneys or the prosecutor?)

Earlier this week someone posted that Julie RenHO said the Kalpoes would be released Friday.  How did she know that?  This explains Joe T. going down next week----HE knows baby Huey is GOING DOWN.  He cannot lay this on the Kalpoes cause Mos knows and Joe knows he knows.  How interesting.

Fox changed its web site. No longer claiming that Greta spoke with the judge.  :roll:

This whole thing sounds like a fire drill in the cuckoo's nest. Fox is SO eager to get everybody out of jail.

Sunny...any wine? lol

Should be a big audience tonight Dana  :wink: ..No one is buying all the horrendous mistakes made early in this Investigation!! If they can't ever answer key questions about this then they better fix it before this goes to trial.

I seem to be missing some developments here:

1. Kalpoes suspected of "disposing of body" and "destroying evidence" and released?

2. Joran suspected of "voluntary manslaughter" and held?

3. The Judge said disposing of a body is not serious enough to merit detention?

4. What is the source of all of this or is this guessing?

Gotta run. BBL.

ABC 33/40 Birmingham...just had a live report from Aruba.  They showed Beth getting off of the plane and she was alone, but a tall nice looking man met her.
No idea who he was.
They said that the Kalpoes have been released from jail but not from suspect status.
Interview with Figaroa(sp) He hardly speaks English.
He said that for this stage of the detention the evidence has to be a much higher level than before.

 Oh me too Klaas. I just had a sigh of relief, but can still hardly think. The word cruelty is pounding in my brain...cruelty. :smt022  :smt009

Thanks,  I'll start making our next pitcher right now.

Not a shot in hell darling!  LOL :shock: :shock:  just got the house painted ya know

If we have "aiding and abetting in the cover up of a crime and hiding of a body" then that means we have a crime and the hiding of a body...am I correct? So it says to me they have joran for a crime and hiding of a body!!! Lets hope!!!

Spock - please read back a couple of pages

thanks for making me laugh!! I needed that!!! :smt052

Hi Dana and nice to meet you.  We'll be riveted to your show tonight. 

It is already 8pm in Aruba, so I doubt the presser with Mos will take place tonight.  I was hoping it would take place before Greta starts her show so I wouldn't have to mess with the volume to blank out Joe T.

I can just see your monkey dipping his beautiful tongue in a glass of frothy eggnog for Christmas (http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/6285/winksm6bq0jf.gif)

I am declaring my show a Tacopina free zone, however I may have a comment or two about him.  :-)

She did post that at RU...I forget what day. She was not just posting it as her opinion either. At least that's my opinion, lol.

Sunny, sounds good to me.  Better get another pitcher started!  :)

going to try and download the video player thingy for your show so I can finally listen...see how highly technically advanced I am..lol...the video player thingamajig.

Hello! I still think that Hans Mos may take them to a trial, they were released from detention in the jail..but remain suspects. Sounds to me like Hans Mos and the dutch know exactly what happened in this case, they just have to prove it. I am very glad that Joran remains behind bars. I have to keep faith that a trial is upcoming. Anything less, would really make them look like fools for drawing attention to this case again after two years.

I need to get off for a few.  Have some things to do.  But will be back to catch up and watch Greta tonight!

Stay positive Monkeys!  The main suspect is still in jail!  Let's pray the k2's will be heading to protective services for spilling the beans!  ;)

Keep the faith, it ain't over yet!

Thanks Klaas, our posts hit about the same time. I understand the information comes from the Judges ruling. My question becomes how can disposal of a body not be a crime worthy of pretrial detention?

Also, if the Kalpoes involved themselves in disposal of a body, they had to of had a motive apart from helping their friend get off the hook.

ok...where did it go?

Need to switch over to a new cable modem I just got.  Have to log off, be back in a bit (hopefully  :lol:)

(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r139/songluva/margaritaglass.jpg)   (http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r139/songluva/margaritapitcher.jpg)

If anyone is having problems listening to Dana's Show just buzz me in the musings thread and I will help you!

Maybe Taco will call in  :lol:

I am declaring my show a Tacopina free zone, however I may have a comment or two about him.  :-)
[/quote]


dana, that's the best damn news i've heard today.
dennisintn

Spock,
I mentioned it several pages back --
I don't think the Dutch system allows people out "on bail." The kalpoes are essentially "out on bail awaiting trial." You can only be held in Detention for the most serious of charges.

.... that said, I DO think personally that "disposal of a body" is pretty damned serious and it SHOULD be a detainable offense pre-trial.

We don't understand their system  :roll:

I will be tuning into Dana tonight. I will NOT be watching Greta. My bet says she will have Renfro and Joe T. blabbing crap. I can't go there tonight. It is too painful. They make me sick. You know Julia is just jumping up and down with joy right now...probably out slurping down a few with all her wasted friends.

Anyone know who the judge was that released them?

Evidence was same for all 3.  Could it be that all evidence showed that Joran was the guilty goat in all this?  In all 3 cases? 

Remember Mos was always sly about answering if all the charges would be the same.  He kind of side stepped that by not really answering.  He would only say at the moment yes all would carry the same charge.  I think he knew what they would be charged with and only led everyone to believe he had them all on the same charge.  He said from the beginning he would not discuss the specifics of this case so I think he is very aware of what he is doing here.

Ther Kalpoes may be effectively "out on bail", but we dont have charges and we dont have a trial date. If they assisted in disposal of a body, they must have a motive, and that likely would be they did something to her they did not wish to have discovered. That should be enough to hold them another eight days.

That would be MY guess!!

"cannot hold on pretrial detention."  To me this sounds like a trial is forthcoming and they could be placed under arrest, depending on this trial and its findings.  Correct me if I am wrong, but I am just trying to understand their system.  I think I know, but that's beside the point. 

[/b]

Key words here! This implies a trial IS coming -- they just can't be held behind bars UNTIL the trial.

Reminder that no one has been charged as yet.

No, the Kalpoes were not released because there was not enough evidence to hold them but because the suspicions under which they are being held, not charges but suspicions only, are of a much lesser crime and not one that calls for being held without bond as we would put it in this country.

.

dana, that's the best damn news i've heard today.
dennisintn
[/quote]

Yes!! We can finally listen to a show without the scrooge  :cool:

Don't worry folks..The Evil doer's will not win!!  :lol:

http://www.scroogeyourself.com/?id=1123256495

I like your line of thinking.

Wonder what the sporter thinks about his accomplices getting out of the pokey?

Wasn't Mos suppose to give a statement around 4:30?? Did I miss it?

Hi Monkeys, I'm disappointed by the release as welll ggrrrr, but Tyler seriously? They change it everyday? I don't think they have a "system" they make it up as they go along!

I'll keep praying for Natalee, and I hope Beth and Dave at least get some answers...

Well if that be the case would releasing them set up a situation for them to be either coached by the relatives of the prime suspect or threatened by them?

.....And I am still waiting for Van Der Straten to be held accountable for his actions during the first investigation.

There's kind of a bigger question. If the 2K's helped hide Natalee, why release them without having them show where she is! So if its a lessor crime in Aruba why not just till us the rest.

It is likely that we will be told that Joran doesn't know but we all know that would be BS, as well. You can bet your boots he knew a few minutes after it all went down.

By the way Peaches, I hope you are feeling well today.

Is it possible that in Aruba this happens on a regular basis?  Not something anyone would be concerned about?

One witness is no witness.  How many have disappeared before?

I'm maintaining my position on the daisy side of the dirt, thank you for asking.

I think I need a nap now. 

They can't...she was moved and they know it...they just don't know where.

I know what you mean.  I can only guess that they have not admitted to any of it and those crimes just aren't very serious to the Dutch judges.  Even if Mos can prove they id those things they still do not have to admit it.

Latest from Greta

http://tinyurl.com/2uszbs

I too want this info....do we know? Can we find out? Does Jossy know?

Posted on the front page of SM:

EURobert wote:

It’s possible that the Kalpoes didn’t take part in the - alledged - sexual abuse of Natalee Holloway but Joran might have “ordered’ them when things went wrong, to help dispose of the body because he KNEW things about them. Maybe he threatened them: “if I fall you will fall too! Remember in the Telegraaf-news-article it was said that the police thought that raping of drunk American girls probably happened many times before. Criminals have power over each-other because they know things of each-other! And maybe that’s the only reason why the Kalpoes untill now have kept their mouths shut about what happened.

And about the boat: I saw on the forum the question why the Dutch didn’t do a search themselves. I would guess that there are untill now to few strong clues where to search. Being familiar with the Dutch aproach I don’t think they would do searches in the wild, without strong and certain clues were the body is to be found.

Judge ASSBITE

I think they are all playing us...it's a scam that will bury this case.

Reading from the release of judges ruling:

New evidence together with existing evidence in this case file does produce serious grounds for the suspicion of some kind of aiding and abetting of covering up the traces of a crime committed or the disposing of a corpse. However it goes on to say that even the combination of either of those is not enough to keep these two suspects in pretrial detention any longer.

I am just amazed that this is not serious enough to keep them in detention..... :roll:

I agree, they are after JVS/PVS. Arresting 2K could have been part of Mos's plan to scare the chit out of joran and paulus, wondering IF they would talk, WHAT they would say, etc. And to now release 2K is really gonna add fuel to Mos's fire I think. I bet this could have been part of his plan from the start, to arrest all 3, then let 2K go but not JVDS. Talk about sparks flying!! 
Plus I think it's possible that 2K have talked, have told the truth about all they know after being scared by their arrests. They might have actually listened when the interrogators talked to them about what they could get for NOT talking versus what they could get if they DID talk. These two are just country bumpkins for sure, but they have to be street smart from what we know about them. They have to have seen which way was the smartest to go. They may have bought themselves a lesser charge plus freedom until the trial. Time will tell of course but my faith is still in Mr. Mos.

Penis Charadis 4 Joe T...I am sure he will spin all this in Joran's favor...puke that he is.

Well I'm going to open Kiwi's Dog House early now instead of waiting for the football games to  begin. Your all welcome but you have to bring your own!

they are margaritas....I have a pitcher or two  :lol:

How did the prosecutor and ... 10 lawyers get it so wrong.  Maybe the judge that released the Kalpoe brothers has a different take on the definition of "sufficient evidence" than the prosecutor and ten lawyers.

There were no differences in the suspicions against the Kalpoes and Joran.  They all were held to the same accountability.

I can only assume if Deepak and Staish Kalpoe were released by a judge's rules ... Joran will receive the same ruling.

Janet

++++++++++++++++++++++

http://sendtofriend.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3912737

Hans Mos
ABC NEWS
November 26, 2007

Hans Mos, Aruba's chief prosecutor, told ABC News he believes the the new evidence makes the case against the three men stronger than it was two years.

"We are convinced if we had had this evidence we have now they would not have been released by the court at that time," Mos said.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313168,00.html

Hans Mos
On the Record with Greta
November 27, 2007

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: Breaking news from Aruba, Joran van der Sloot ordered to stay behind bars for at least eight more days. Now, the Kalpoe brothers already got the same news last week. Now, all three suspects were re-arrested. Why? The prosecutor has now charged all three with voluntary manslaughter of Natalee Holloway.  

MOS: And this decision to re-arrest these three suspects was a decision taken by 10 lawyers, by 10 lawyers sitting around a table (INAUDIBLE) whole afternoon, being presented the new material.  

Margaritas. Have one!

This was posted at RU:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/6ly4kyq.jpg)

What this appears to be saying is that the K2's most likely helped dispose of the body after the fact and did not kill Natalee.  That helping dispose of a body is not as bad as killing and their detention is not warrented.

This does not mean they won't be charged with a crime when it goes to trial, only a lesser crime than Joran.

It's a setback but not the end.
Please remain hopeful.

Joran's still in jail.
Ship Persistence is enroute.
Kalpoes not off the hook.

And just in case Aruba is thinking of pulling another fast one and jerking
Natalee's family around again, here is a comment from Gretawire from someone
in Texas who is outraged about the K2 release:

"Dear Aruba-
I was never a fan of the “Ban Aruba” campaign. I have now switched sides. Thanks, Aruba. I will never visit you, ever."

have margaritas, will travel...eerrrrr I hope it's warm where you are

So -both- Kalpoes are likely to be charged with disposal of a corpse?

Sunday night...3am-ish?  Joran on comp at 3:30? Or Val?

Or monday.

Well, I think it is sort of like when a doctor thinks your gallbladder is ruptured because he cannot visualize it on a CAT or a Cgram, and when he gets in there, he finds the gallbladder is eaten up with cancer and so is the liver, the heart and part of the lungs, and then he just does what he can to stop the bleeding sotaspeak. 

Canary, I think and pray you are right!  I have not given up and the ship is on the way to help close this up! 

I wonder what if Dutch/Aruban law has a category of crime and penalties for those that have assisted other in concealing a crime?

Charged with rape, some form of murder, concealing a corpse, by association and participation?  Even if the participation was limited?

I'm in AZ, but its not too warm today. I'm watching Fox News in the Dog House, which is still saying that the defense lawyers said...... the usual

Here are some other thoughts ~

Does vacation booking/tourism spike after Aruba is in the news?

Example, do the recent arrests and their related news stories about Aruba change the perception of Aruba in the public mind?

Will the press 'drop' the story now that 2K have been released?

Leaving the public with the 'perception' that J2K are being held accountable for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway?

Birmingham ABC33/40 report....
Figaroa (Kalpoe Attoney)  said that the Kalpoes are still suspects
but the judge thought that the Kalpoes being free would not hinder the investigation.
They showed Beth with JQK.  (He looked great in jeans and windblown hair.)
They said that Dave has landed in Aruba and they will meet with Mos
tomorrow.

Let's do a hypothetical.  You go out and kill Klaas.  You drove my car and then you called me and asked me and ask if I will ask Anna to get rid of the body.  In the meantime, I call Anna while my brother Bob, is gathering up body bags.  They could hold me and my brother  Joebob, but not for an extended period of time, because we were not a part to the original charge, but accessories after the fact.  What fact?  There has been no fact established in a court of law yet. Therefore, they will have to let me and my brother go and charge us as an accessory to whatever you are found guilty of  at such point you are tried and verdict render, whether it be wearing a wearing a plaid shirt or killing Klaas.  Then Anna, my brother and I will have to be tried for taking Klaas out to sea, if you are found guilty of killing Klaas.

That sounds about right to me.  They would have to convict Joran first before they could try and convict anyone of helping him after the fact.

Thanks Magnolia

I have loved your Birmingham reports.

Thanks Magnolia!

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=Nat's

November 29, 2007 Search for Natalee at sea

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XKxPAS5uXGg

Reading from the release of judges ruling:

New evidence together with existing evidence in this case file does produce serious grounds for the suspicion of some kind of aiding and abetting of covering up the traces of a crime committed or the disposing of a corpse.  However it goes on to say that even the combination of either of those is not enough to keep these two suspects in pretrial detention any longer.

+++++++++++++++

My understand of the judge's ruling that released Deepak and Satish Kalpoe:

The same suspicions were leveled against Joran, Deepak and Satish ... suspcions that dictated their apprehension.

I speculate that Joran will also be released ... no pretrial detention and ... the judge will cite the same reasons.

In other words ... if the case is brought to court ... Gerold Dompig's scenario comes into play ... the scenario which implies that Joran, Deepak and Satish acted alone and ... the only crime committed was the disposal of Natalee's remains.

Janet

++++++++++

Gerold Dompig
48 Hours Mystery
March 22, 2006

"We feel strongly that she probably went into shock or something happened to her system with all this alcohol maybe on top of that other drugs which either she took or they gave her and that she just collapsed," says Dompig.

The crime, Dompig suspects, occurred when the body was illegally disposed of.  The boys may have acted alone.

"We’re not talking about killers here," he says

Just to add...the reporter also said that Mos stated that he would ask the family to not talk about the case.  So far, this reporter, Ebony Hall, has been spot on with everything she has reported...seems that she has the ability to actually get to some of the truth...imagine that...a local Birmingham reporter.

Most of the reports can be found here...http://www.abc3340.com/
Tonights reports will not be available until tomorrow.

If destroying evidence and hiding a corpse are minimal offenses in the Aruban system, then rape doesn't warrant jail time. This kind of explains why you just don't have anyone reporting any crimes.

I think that's what me and Klaas and Wreck been screaming for hours. :2doh: :2doh: :2doh:

If Joran committed voluntary manslaughter on Natalee and the Kalpoes were not even present at the time, they cannot be held accountable for what he did.  Neither can they for his drugging her drink especially if they were not aware that he was doing so or it cannot be proven they were aware of it.

So if they in fact did drop Joran off somewhere, they would not be a party to what he did after that.  Then if he calls them up and asks for help and they give it, that is going to be a much lesser crime because they didn't kill anybody.

I have never heard of anybody in this country being held for abuse of a corpse without being allowed bail or maybe not even being detained in jail at all.  The law tends to take a rather light view of things after a person is already dead.

And yes, Tyler, that's just how it happened--er, I mean good example.

.

She must not be wasting her time running after Taco and Renfro.

Fox update..Interview with Tito and new greaseball attorney representing Tacos  Law firm

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xT1e6ipPFlY

And all we get to see is Joey T!

If this is the case it may also explain why people may not want to go to Aruba.

The judge damn sure doesn't think she was wisked away on a MedJet.   :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

Exactly!  They are guilty.  The judge is just saying they aren't as guilty as Joran. 

Does it not strike anyone as telling that the judge says there are SERIOUS SUSPICIONS concerning the concealment of a crime and disposal of a body.

Would that not mean that there are also serious suspicions that there was a body to be disposed OF as well as someone who made that person into a body?

This is NOT something Julia and friends are likely to be happy about at all.  Not looking good for Sporter in my opinion.  Might as well say the judge said there are serious suspicions that Joran caused Natalee's death and then the Kalpoes helped him.

Now add to that the information about the boat in the NE article and it would seem the Kalpoes may not even be responsible for total body disposal but only assisting in it in some manner.  I doubt they drove the boat, etc.

On one hand, dead people are not buying condos or timeshares.  Dead people are not going to be return visitors.  So, finding dead people may not be a good investment of of tourism dollars.  MO

Magnolia, can you link that video or isn't it up yet?
My search was not successful.
TIA

Hey Hiker!! :2waver: As usual, I agree with you...

thanks Anna!! I posted that earlier!! If they are suspected of covering up crime and body, there has to be some proof there was a crime and body!!
What is next w/ Dr. Phil by the way??!! So if they only covered up the crime and body, does dr Phil have to pay them? :roll:

And there can't be serious suspicions about them if there are not also serious ones about Joran having killed Natalee.

And the judge can't now release Joran after having said there were serious suspicions concerning the crime of voluntary manslaughter that he is suspected of.

It can't be serious against Kalpoes and not serious against Joran for we are talking basically the same evidence, are we not?

Judge who released Kalpoes today.

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/CMPM/judge.jpg)

The judge in the case of the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway, whose identity was not released by the government, leaves the San Nicolaas police station in Aruba, Friday, Nov. 30, 2007. The two brothers re-arrested last week as suspects, Satish and Deepak Kalpoe, will be released after the judge did not find 'serious grounds' for suspicion of their involvement in a crime, according to a statement from the prosecutor's office Friday. (AP Photo/Pedro Famous Diaz)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071130/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/aruba_missing_teen;_ylt=Av9lm4Civ4tXydAjWilQ9zRvaA8F

I think this has been part of the problem.   The Aruban authorities always telling the Dave and Beth to keep their mouths shut.  Maybe its time they spoke out and told all they know.  All this secretive stuff is for the birds and I think leads to no good.

[/quote]

Just to add...the reporter also said that Mos stated that he would ask the family to not talk about the case.  So far, this reporter, Ebony Hall, has been spot on with everything she has reported...seems that she has the ability to actually get to some of the truth...imagine that...a local Birmingham reporter.

Most of the reports can be found here...http://www.abc3340.com/
Tonights reports will not be available until tomorrow.
[/quote]

Thank you Pita.

Does anybody know the name of the judge?

Janet

Hi Miss Mish! As they say in England, "Back at you." :2waver: :2waver: :2waver:

(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/9131/hansyc2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Video
http://tinyurl.com/2287fj
Brothers to be freed in Natalee Holloway case

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) -- Two of the suspects being held in connection with Natalee Holloway's presumed death will be released from custody by Saturday.

Prosecutors wanted Deepak and Satish Kalpoe held in Aruba for another eight days, but a judge rejected their request Friday.

The decision was "a bit of a setback," said Hans Mos, Aruba's chief public prosecutor. But it does not change his plan to decide by the end of the year whether to prosecute anyone in the Holloway case.

"We had hoped for a longer period to confront these suspects with the material we have against them, but this is the way the law says it must go," Mos said.

Holloway's parents are expected to meet with Mos on Saturday. The prosecutor said he will explain to them what happened, "if I can explain it. I hope I can."

Deepak Kalpoe's defense attorney, meanwhile, said his client is "really happy to recover his freedom after 10 days in jail."

Prosecutors have three days to appeal the decision and will decide Monday whether or not to do so.

A third man, Joran van der Sloot, is still being held in the case. Van der Sloot is set to appear before a judge December 7, and prosecutors have said they are considering requesting that he be detained another 60 days.

The Kalpoe brothers were previously jailed in the case, but were rearrested last week and charged with being involved in the "voluntary manslaughter" of Holloway.

The judge reasoned Friday that "the new evidence, together with the existing evidence in this case, produce serious grounds for the suspicion of some kind of aiding and abetting, of covering up the traces of a crime committed or of the disposing of a corpse," prosecutors said.

But people accused of those crimes do not qualify for pretrial detention under Aruban law, Mos told reporters. He noted that on Monday, the same judge approved van der Sloot's continuing detention based on the same evidence.

"Apparently, the judge sees a difference between the third suspect and these two suspects," Mos said, since the judge concluded the evidence against the Kalpoes was not strong enough to warrant their continued detention.

When the arrests took place November 21, prosecutors said they had new incriminating evidence against the three men.

They were the last people seen with Holloway, 18, as she left an Oranjestad nightclub on May 30, 2005. She was on a trip to Aruba with about 100 classmates celebrating their graduation from Mountain Brook High School in suburban Birmingham, Alabama.

Holloway has been missing since. Van der Sloot and the Kalpoes have maintained their innocence in her disappearance.

The Kalpoes have told police they dropped Holloway and van der Sloot off near a lighthouse on the northern tip of the island after they left the nightclub. Van der Sloot's mother, Anita, has said her son told her he was on the beach with Holloway but left her there because she wanted to stay.

Mos has told CNN he believes authorities have enough evidence to prove Holloway is dead, even if her body is never found. He has suggested her death was an accident.

The new evidence against the three men was gathered from advanced techniques used to re-examine existing information, including cell phone records and text messages exchanged the night Holloway disappeared, Mos has said.

Investigators also returned to the homes of the suspects to try to re-create transmissions. The team also discovered that some existing evidence was improperly analyzed.

Defense attorneys for the Kalpoes and van der Sloot have said the prosecutors' evidence is flimsy. "To say it's less than nothing is too much," van der Sloot's lawyer, Ariean de Bie, told CNN.

In Aruba, authorities can make an arrest if they have reasonable suspicion that someone knows about or is involved in a crime. Magistrates investigate cases, and judges determine a suspect's guilt or innocence. There are no jury trials.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/30/aruba.holloway/index.html

That is NOT what the office stated!! They said serious suspicion of hiding a crime and natalee's body!!!

I wonder if Clyde Beatty is reading his Bible tonight, playing cards, smoking dope or having a fun time with Bubba, his bunk bud.

I completely disagree with this statement.

Crap, I meant Clyde Barrow (duh, Warren Beatty was Clyde Barrow, right?) :lol: :lol:

Come on!  Thats ridiculous.  Mos hoped to have more time to confront them??????   Well he has not talked to them in a whole week since they've been there.  I heard no one has talked to them since last Friday.   Why didn't they make good use of the time they did have for goodness sakes!  What a bunch of baloney.  I don't know why some of you guys have such faith in this Mos person???

The Kalpoe brothers were previously jailed in the case, but were rearrested last week and charged with being involved in the "voluntary manslaughter" of Holloway.

The judge reasoned Friday that "the new evidence, together with the existing evidence in this case, produce serious grounds for the suspicion of some kind of aiding and abetting, of covering up the traces of a crime committed or of the disposing of a corpse," prosecutors said. Sounds like the judge is saying there WAS a crime

But people accused of those crimes do not qualify for pretrial detention under Aruban law, Mos told reporters. He noted that on Monday, the same judge approved van der Sloot's continuing detention based on the same evidence. I think this is a good sign!! More evidence against joran?
"Apparently, the judge sees a difference between the third suspect and these two suspects," Mos said, since the judge concluded the evidence against the Kalpoes was not strong enough to warrant their continued detention. I think the judge is saying there is a crime of voluntary manslaughter against Natalee...joran committed it, k2 helped cover it up. I think this is the same conclusion alot of us had too.

Why do you continue to believe everything the defense attorneys say?

Maybe Dana can ask Jossy tonight on his show??

dana, that's the best damn news i've heard today.
dennisintn
[/quote]

Me too.  I can't stand watching the idiot(Taco).  I actually get sick. 

I was watching a talk show one night about 2 months ago and authorities including CIA/FBI agent and a couple pathologists, etc., were discussing murder and the resolution rate in the USA.  They said it was about 50% whereas before the 1960s it was about 90%.  Why do you think that is?  We, the people, want to know more than we are entitled to know but we scream freedom of press, and by doing so, police and prosecutors often have to give us so much detail that it gives the perps information they are able to use in eluding conviction.  So maybe we are demanding too much here while Mos is trying to keep some information close to the vest.  I think we will know more by JQKs expression if we are fortunate to have him on TV this weekend.  Maybe that is who is going to be on KGs' program Saturday night, our big surprise, or is it Beth or Dave in an exclusive?

(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/9131/hansyc2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Video
http://tinyurl.com/2287fj

Hans Mos Press conference if you missed the link above.

Hiker,
I don't think Sinter Klaus will be coming to see Joran.

If this picture is of the judge walking out of the police station, why does it say "drinks" on the door?

I wish I could laugh at that but it may just be true!!

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: If he did he'd probably tell him to read his Bible instead of using it for a doorstop.

Holy crap Katy, good eye!!! I missed that!!

You never know with these clowns.  :wink: :wink: :wink:

Glenda/Julia is having a good laugh over Beth at RU...she really needs to be thrown down and stomped on...sickening slut.

When the Dutch People have been bad SinterKlaas sends them to Spain..Weird Huh? I still have plenty of hope that Joran and everyone else that is involved will be sent to hell.

It's a vending machine

Maybe the kalpoe's do not want to leave jail.  The judge said he did not think it would hinder the investigation--I would think the Kalpoes would feel they are being thrown to the dogs.  They thought it was bad in jail, just wait until Papa Sloot, Joe T and others get ahold of them. :P

The purpose of the arrest was not to force them into a confession and have them turn on one another.

It was to give them a choice to either stick with their old lies or make up new ones before going to trial.

So how is that going to look? If they they have to explain why they were lying up until November 30th 2007? And if they change their stories at the trial, they will be asked why they didn't provide that information during the investigation only a few months earlier.

So nothing has changed except Hans Mos has brought them in to establish their lies from two years ago.

This is a pre-trial situation. And what is important to remember this time around is the post-trial lock up.

1) pre-trial (Mos isn't showing all his cards)

2) establishes lies from 2 years ago

3) goes to trial

4) establishes case against them, which will include lies right up to the trial

The judge looks like a Greyhound bus driver  :-|

Frank …didn’t see this answered…..Kalpoes

2005…June 9th arrested…………….released July 4th
2005…August 26th………………….released September 4th
2007…November 21st………………released November 30th/December 1st
Are you thinking time served?


Ldstlou…..There will be no money for the Kalpoes  as they will not turn over  ALL the documents Dr Phil’s lawyers have requested.   It will not matter what Aruba does with the Kalpoes. IMO



Thanks Pita for a photo of JUDGE NO-NAME…someone has to know who he is!

She is so pathetic...she is so damned jealous of Beth!! She is trying to give Greta the scoop because she wants to be on tv so bad again and everyone is ignoring her!!
AAAhhhh...did you notice gwen and glenda are posting to each other? Aren't glenda and gwen one and the same??!! No one else is buying her bs anymore so she talks to herself.  :lol: Too pathetic to even waste our time with a throw down and a stomp. Can you imagine?! Hell 2 years later we still have to hear about the supposed "push" by Jug!!! :roll:

Ahhhh; I see it now.  Thanx Frank

Lol....thanks day, I really needed that chuckle...it helped. :smt052

What I was thinking is that Joran has spent more time than the Kalpoe's in jail, right along with the theory of lesser crimes.

It doesn't.  That is on the front of a soft DRINK vending machine apparently in the hallway at the jail.

.

Maybee this is Paul Van Der Sloots buddy Judge Smid?

...and Jimmy Carter  :-|

Thanks Mum...that was my attempt at sarcastic humor...did ya catch it?  :2doh: :lol:

where's the peanuts..lol...and I think Katy was correct...is he coming out of a bar?! :shock:

maybe the email i got earlier wasnt so far off the mark

You know what, Nutt, an old man used to tell me when I was quite young (most of the time mad at my husband because he had to work every holiday) and other people had their husbands home --- he would say, "the sun don't shine up the same dog's ass every morning."  Just wait.  Every dog his/her day.  It's coming.

Thanks.

can you share?

In order for the Kalpoes ti have serious evidence of hiding a corpse, there had to have first been one.

A body /  A Case, Paulus!

I wondered the same thing??    (http://www.cosgan.de/images/midi/konfus/a015.gif)

Have we ever seen a picture of Smiddy? I know we've seen Witty.

The judge who released the Kalpoe's looks like the man who was pictured admonishing PVDS for his demeaning remarks against his fellow lawyers.  You posted the newspaper article days ago with the picture of PVDS with a dunce cap.  I cannot find it by using the search feature.  Could you find it for me please?

Thanks *******. This stuff worries me...

He does look like he could use a drink.

Thank you.

No we have not. He is a very elusive and no pics on the net that I am aware of :-?

well, from what my neighbor can tell me it says "basically they got them"

but since i screwed it up so bad, i better wait till i get more information  :lol: :cool:

"the new evidence, together with the existing evidence in this case, produce serious grounds for the suspicion of some kind of aiding and abetting, of covering up the traces of a crime committed or of the disposing of a corpse," prosecutors said.


that is some pretty powerful stuff

uhhhhhhhh  JOE - there is NEW EVIDENCE the judge just said so

Quote Hans Mos "He has suggested her death was an accident."

This is what worries me.  No way in hell was Natalee's death an "accident".

Been looking for the last week and as ******* says no pics, not much of anything.

Look closer.  It's a soda machine.

He is a very elusive

As well he should be.

 :lol:

(you forgot Anita and Mama...)

Is it a cultural thing?

Maybe...where they 'dispense' justice, along with other things?

I wonder what is dispensed at other watering holes?

I am even more impressed!! Better eye Muffy!!!

HAHA...I was thinking to myself, who does he remind me of???   Thats IT!!  LOLOL

But, even as I sit here and laugh I feel bad about doing it because what if THIS judge is finally an honest judge? What if he is going to do his best to see that this case/trial are done right?  We don't know yet, and his expression is pretty serious in that picture. Wow, mine would be too I think. His reputation is on the line as well as Mos's and Aruba's.
After I thought about that I was still grinning but the snickering stopped  :silent:  LOL

good point!! And all the locals who are tired of the media there again...and the loss of their tourists and tips!!

Klaas ... Deepak and Satish's defence attorneys claimed that there was not sufficient evidence to hold them on the suspicion of voluntary manslaughter ... the defence attorney announced to the world prior to the judge's ruling today that Deepak and Satish were going to be released.  They were right.

For the past week Hans Mos has been claiming just the opposite ... he was wrong.

As in the past ... it seems that the defence attorney and the judge are on the same page as far as what constitutes whether evidence is strong or insuffient under Dutch law.

As in the past ... Natalee Holloways parents again are forced to ride the emotional roller coaster from H---.

Klaas ... you and I have the same objective ... Justice for Natalee.  However ... we definitely have a different perspective regarding the recent happenings in Aruba but ... please do not hold that against me.  In my quest ... I have to say it how I see it.

If I am wrong and ... it is revealed that Aruba is genuinely pursuing justice for Natalee ... I will concede ... happily concede.

Janet

I wonder if this applies to Aruba?

http://www.caribbeancourtofjustice.org/papersandarticles/ccj-code%20of%20conduct.pdf

I wonder what organization holds judges accountable for their behavior?

Who's watching the chamber?

Does a watched chamber ever boil?

Tam, I don't think anyone can hold your doubts against you or anyone else here after the ups and downs we have experienced from the emotional roller coaster Aruba has had us on for so long. Even Beth is very cautious with good news it seems. I am trying to remain positive, Robots helps!! lol And I am praying constantly!! We need a miracle here!! It is the season of miracles!!! Keep the faith!!!

ME TOO!

idfwiw...gwen used to be gagal05, but was banned at RU then came back as gwen. You are right tho not as many are paying attention to Glenda/Julia as they use to... :wink:

my guess is that they have tapes of K2 moving or getting rid of a body
and for some crazy reason that is not enough to hold them, because the tapes probably
show that that is exactly what they did. the tapes show that JORAN was with her when she was killed and the K2 were helping their buddy after the fact

but wasnt Mos trying to get them for murder or well it seems for mansalughter
i will still call it murder. but he cant hold them for murder or manslaughter but he can try them for the hiding of a body

Thank you Idstlou.

I thought gwen/gagal_05/glenda were all one and the same?!

 :smt052

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/30/aruba.holloway/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

Moss press conference

I am sorry to say I have to agree with Janet.  I hope I am wrong but so far everything the defense attorneys have come out and said have been true.  And I bet dollars to donuts Joran goes free next.   I HOPE IT ISN'T TRUE.  But so far, from day one, Aruban authorities have done this.   The prosecutors office just seems to stink over there.  I hope I am proved wrong.  I really really do.

TUNE IN AT 9PM ET (15 minutes from now)

www.scaredmonkeysradio.com

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Pretzer113007.jpg)

thinking the same thing...also, will Joran have the same Judge??

:2rofl: :2rofl: :2rofl: :2rofl: :2rofl:
LOL  !!  Great description!!

The Defense Attorneys were saying their clients, the Kalpoes would be released as SUSPECTS a week ago, too.

That has far, far from happened.  In fact a judge has said there are SERIOUS suspicions against them but on different charges.

Now I don't recall hearing even one defense attorney saying that is what was going to happen.

.

Moss will decide whether to appeal on Monday

There is not enough per the judge to keep them on the serious charge (vol. mansl.)

There is a lot of evidence for the disposal of the body charge but that charge isn't serious enough to hold them. 

They will stay a part til tomorrow at 4 PM.

Will someone sort of transcribe for me since I am having trouble with this new computer getting Dana?

I do not drink ... but I do have my weaknesses that I fall back up when I am frustrated and ... today I am frustrated.

I do believe I will partake in a large slice of mud pie that my daughter-in-law brought over as a contribution to our take-out Chinese food dinner.  I think I will forget about the Chinese food and ... go straight for the pie.   :D

Janet

It will certainly be interesting to hear Jossy's take on the Kalpoe's being released and his prosecutor & Judge basically creating a circus with the case all over again. Not quite the image I am sure Jossy wants for Aruba,

I thought I heard Mos say the judge thought there was "serious material" in regards to k2 being guilty of lesser charges of hiding a body. Did he say serious material or suspicion? I think there is a big difference in my mind at least.

Posted on this last week to Anna as it appears Judge Wit sp was promoted..per Ramm. Later I read she had not read back. :lol: Checked pics and Jacob Wit sp is our Judge Wit. Does not seem to include Aruba. But not sure and wanted to know what Ramm had posted at BFN.

Sorry I can't transcribe the press conf. cause it doesn't come in well on my computer - very jerky and hard to understand so I didn't get the exact words

no way

Does anyone else think it was just super crappy of Greta to call Beth and just dump on her that the Kalpoes released without even bothering to find out what the judge really said?

Big difference in just being released and being released under suspicion.

.

You can bet that Paulus is going to try to contact the Kalpoes whether himslef or a third party.  He is going to want to know exactly what was asked of the Kalpoes and what they answered with.  he then will let Joran's lawyers who in turn will share this with Joran.  I hope they have sense enoguth to tell Papa to take a hike.  They must know by now ( regardless of their involvement) that it is all about Joran, and that Papa is not looking out for them at all unless it saves Joran's hide.  I hope they impressed that on the Kalpoes before releasing them.

Without a doubt, I feel the brothers are guilty of the knowledge that Joran was planning to drug a tourist and sexually assault her.  They assisted in getting her to the car, and sitting by and allowing Joran to sexually assault her.

They also were guilty of obstructing justice by lying to the police, covering up for Joran, most likely to save themselves.  They knew they were involved and I am sure Paulus told them that they would serve time for their involvement, so they must deny everything, because there was no body to prove a crime anyway.  The snowball started rolling at that point and they got in over their heads.

They may have been guilty of assisting Joran with an unconscious, semi-unconscious, injured, or possibly dead Natalee by carrying her in and out of the car to various locations etc.  They may have also helped set up alibis due to Paulus and/or Joran irequest/demand, or been a "chauffer" for Joran that night or in night to follow.  They may have assisted in the disposal of the body, or helped Joran set up some contacts etc.

If any of the above is true and they actually didn't sexually assault her, take part in a possible injury, or negelect to get her medical help while in their "care" this may not be a heavy punishable offense in Dutch Courts.  If you only get 10-15 for a murder, with some of that time being reduced, then they probably wouldn't get much time for the other offenses.

We need to see Paulus picked up!  I don't know Dutch law, but is it possible he is considered immune from what he knows because he is considered one of Joran's lawyers?  That is not to say he isn't guilty of participating int hr evening, but as others have said, maybe Joran needs to be charged with the voluntary murder first.

JOSSY:  The judge saw no merit in the evidence and released them (K2).  The judge rejected the appeal that K2's get the same attorney.  The judge also rejected Joran's appeal except for the bible.

Ramm's post at BFN:

seeing as, almost all the judges are just going there for 3 years before going back to the Netherlands to continue their career as judge in the Netherlands, it is certain that those judges are just as good as any other judge in the Kingdom. They are not second rate judges, they are the same judges that have before and will again be judges in the Netherlands after their tour of duty in the Carribean.

And Judge Witt is now a judge on a higher court in the area, not involved in day to day judging on Curacao (as far as I have found out).

Isn't it possible that someone set up Mos and the prosecutors office?  

The Kalpoes?  I wonder who was on the phone?  Who and what conversations were taped?

Deflect away from the VDS compound?

DANA:  I was livid when JoeT accused Jossy of fabricating evidence.
Is JoeT given any status in Aruba. 

JOSSY:  JoeT can't practice law or activily participate in any court procedings.  He's a loud mouth lawyer. 

JOSSY:  All JoeT wants to do is show his face on TV and hear himself talk.

just more confiramtion that greta is a witch

yes, they (  the K2 ) what joran was up to

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JOSSY:  Since the K2's have been released, do you think they will be tried with anything.

They have been released but NOT EXONERATED. 


JOSSY:  JoeT would need a work permit to work in Aruba.  JoeT cannot practice law.

JOSSY:  Does not know the names of the judges.  There were 2.  One for Joran and one for K2's

JOSSY:  Met with the prosecutor a couple days ago.  Jossy feels that the prosecutor has solid evidence against the suspects, especially pertaining to the sexual assault part of it.

What is so absurd is what in the hell were the Kalpoe's doing there at all? They weren't there to just drive Joran around

What were the Kalpoe's doing there at all?

Accident my ass

JOSSY:  Will go in front of a judge next Thursday.  Jossy is affraid they may also let Joran go unless they have evidence that pertains specifically to Joran.

OMG! Computers have been down at work all day, I just got home and turned on Dana...............I cannot believe it. I'm in shock. I just found out from looking here. OMG!

JOSSY:  They do have new evidence plus found many things missed from the old.  Plus, Jossy thinks they may have found some things when they searched the VDS home.

We need to all keep faith that this time the case will move forward.  I am not ready to accuse Mos and some of the other prosecuters as playing games this time.  It would just be too painful.

So, as of the end of the year, what has to happen?  I remember someone saying something about a time limit of December 31, 2007.

Please guys, I'm just sick about the Kalpoes being released..............is that it then? They'll release Joran as well. Is it over?

Mike McIntyre www.mikeoncrime.com up next

(http://www.mikeoncrime.com/images/mike.jpg)

I don't know details, haven't been here, but it has to be the judge. It's the same thing as before. Please tell me there isn't anything to indicate Hans Mos was playing a game.

Wearing wires so they can tape Paulus. 

NO - IT'S NOT OVER - please read back a few pages.  Even if they are all released at the moment does not mean that MOS will not take it to trial.  They are all still suspects. 

Well, 4 vodka tonics and counting.   Those margaritas also look darned good.  I'm not sure what to say Monkeys.  I'm frigging furious that we're still here 2.5 years later, and that Beth and Dave are still getting jerked around, and that the judges are still waiting a day or two or more to deliver their stupid decisions, and that Natalee still hasn't been found...and that these boys are on tape talking about "finding her"...and Aruban justice still seems to suck.

Yet, a part of me is curious about what is going to happen next.  There is so much we don't know.  I'm glad Beth and Dave will meet with Mos tomorrow.  It's THE LEAST the office of the prosecutor could do for this family - meet with them and show them a MODICUM (and I do mean modicum) of respect!!!  And perhaps apologize for the BS this family has been put through.

The one photo I always think of is Beth sitting down in her hotel room in front of a chiffarobe, sifting through cards, letters, photos in Aruba....looking totally haunted and forelorn.  Beth, we are all with you.  Dave, we are all with you.  Natalee, we are all with you.

This case drives me insane.  I want to cry...and why would I cry after 2.5 years?  Because I can't believe we're all still here...and we're all still listening to this bullshit...and Natalee's parents are still being put through all of this.  PLEASE God, if you're up there, grant this family relief.

Jossy spoke well of Mos and thinks he is legit. Says they do have new evidence. Keep the faith and keep up the prayers!! 'tis the season of miracles!!!

It will never be over until Justice is served.

Thank you Klaas...........for answering and for your answer. Yes, I'll go read.

Thanks, Klaas.  You are the best, but Jossy is contradicting himself, NO?

CBB


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/NE121007.jpg)

released from further detention at this time.  Not exonerated.  Serious suspicion of helping dispose of a corpse and disposal of evidence.

CBB, not over, they are released but not exonerated. Judge feels strong material for suspicion of covering a crime and hiding corpse. We don't know if there is different material pertaining to joran, but the same judge that release k2, did order joran to 8 days, so maybe additional info on joran, or material implicates only joran of the manslaughter charges.

I was listening to Dana's show. Wow, that was cool to see the folks here at Scared Monkey being discussed with the case!

Congrats you guys!

I'm not jumping ship until Hans Mos says he isn't pressing charges.

He is probably trying to buy some time for the ocean search.

These suspects were just arrested for questioning. This party is just getting started.



 

What Jossy is saying is that IF they same New Evidence is in Joran's file then the Judge may release Joran from custody as well.  IF

Now that said, being released does not release them as suspects.  It only means that they can't be held in pre-trial detention. 

Tyler, that is a quote my father used to say as well.  The last time he used it was when my Niece's team had lost a game, and she was depressed. She was about 13 at the time.   She quoted him in her speech when she became an all American  in collegefor the third time, and everyone in the audience broke up laughing. She was referring to the fact that her college team had been defeated in the playoffs after having won the previous year.  Thanks for the memory.  But now I am sad for not having him here!  Yes,  he was from Georgia!

On HGTV Canada right now on Selling Houses Abroad " a couple search for an oceanfront home in Aruba".  Joe and Mercy just saw a $ million+  home that didn't have a bathtub but it was close to a golf course.  Looks like Tierra del Sol to me.  
Just bizarre watching this.  They just showed the California lighthouse.

CBB

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/6ly4kyq.jpg)

I didn't get that...think he says..if material is same..he will go...BUT if material pertained to joran or additional material, he can be held over.

We have guessed that j2 knew what happened, but most probably joran was with Natalee alone when it happened. It could be the case and so only joran can be charged with manslaughter.

Jossy had some good points...
(my parapharase)

Many on Aruba have sons and daughters.  They want the case solved and would like the parents of Natalee to have answers.
~~~~~~

I can't imagine living in a place where this kind of thing is going on.  The only thing that comes to mind in the U.S. right now is Bolingbrook and Stacy.   I see a lot of similarities.

When you're in the middle of a nightmare, how do you wake up?

Yeah, it's a repeat of a show they did about a year ago. 

Greta is way overdue to have John Q Kelly on her program to offset Joe T.  She has had Joe T on ten times since JQK at least that I have seen.

Does anyone know who she will have from Aruba?  I wonder if she now understands that the Kalpoes were not released from being suspects just from PRETRIAL detention.

I like that word pretrial as it indicates that a trial is in the works.

WOW, that commercial is REALLY loud!