Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/NH.gif)

Hey Shango!  Yes you!  Tell us...

Who is Dirty Hand?  It's time to spit it out...don't be like your buddy Simian and remain silent any longer...email me at cindoal@yahoo.com.  Tell me who he is. I am waiting.  :roll: :roll:

Hi merkus and welcome.

Yoo hoo!  Simian!  I am still waiting on the 5th suspect?  Tell me who he is...come on...you can do this...cindoal@yahoo.com. :shock:

You're always a step ahead, Klaas.  :D

See above, I brought it over  :wink:

Welcome, Merkus,

I don't really know the answer to your question but don't think the Kalpoes would ever admit to any kind of sexual assault, they'd claim consensual at best.  Only on the Skeeters tape do I recall them admitting to sex with Natalee and that is in question.

Good to see new folks posting.  Please feel free to share your thoughts and ideas with us. 

Hi Lala's.  For what is worth, Fierljepper at Scrux, says Dirty Hands is Ben Vocking.  He also states that Vocking is not Dutch, but has retired in the Netherlands.  I wonder if this is true and if so, where he's really from.  How are you planning to verify if the real Shango replies to you? 

OMG! I've heard you guys mention RU several times, so I thought I'd look it up and see what it was....WHAT is wrong with those people?????? :2doh: Is that where Joran and K2's family and friends go to talk to each other or what??!! It made me sick. I hope none of those idiots ever have a loved one go missing........wow...

Oh, and someone was asking if Magnolia was here.....I haven't seen her, but I'll watch the local Birmingham news at ten and let you guys know if they say anything about the meeting with Mos.


Michele

I'd bet I could verify it  :wink:

Thanks Chele!

Nut ... I am missing it too.

Joran, Deepak and Satish are not talking.  I cannot comprehend why Hans Mos did not lay it all out before the judge ... try his utmost to secure further detentions as well as .... pursue charges.   He is just letting precious time slip by.

Hans Mos promised the judge and the defence attorneys that he would attempt to wrap everything up by December 31, 2005 or ... would dismiss the case..  I was under the impressing that the prosecutor was the victim's advocate.  To heck with accommodating the defence.  In my opinion ... the prosecutor's timeline should be focused on when justice has the best chance for of prevailing for Natalee Holloway.

Janet

++++++++++


http://sendtofriend.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3912737

Hans Mos
ABC NEWS
November 26, 2007

MOS: I have given the word to the judge and to the lawyers of the brothers that if by the 31st of December, things are not clear, this case will be dismissed. They will be charged if it's a case that we can try in court. And I said the only exception I make on not making it up to the date of the 31st of December, because I had -- I needed a small way out, is if there is very, very heavy and important evidence coming up between now and 31st of December 31.

Going back to the discussion in the previous thread, I don’t believe Areian (Airean?) de Bie’s comment about Holloway-Twitty connections with the White House is a meaningless, isolated comment.  I think it is tied to the “unofficial” official position of pointing to Mountain Brook, the recent anti-victim, anti-family Amigoe articles and Joe Tacopina’s continued involvement as Joran’s “US attorney”.  

Joran no longer needs a US attorney in the US, because the lawsuits against him were dismissed.  Joran doesn’t need a US attorney in Aruba, because this lawyer is unable to practice law there.  So why does he continue to use Joe Tacopina?  Joe Tacopina loves the opportunity of free media exposure, but I doubt that is all there is to it.  

I often wonder if AHATA and the Van der Sloots have signed a Pactum de Quota Litis with Tacopina, because they foresee an opportunity to initiate proceeding against the Holloway-Twittys, some media outlets and others in an American court of law in which the plaintiffs, AHATA and/or the Van der Sloots, pursue nominal and compensatory damages, respectively.

This may sound far fetched, but i wouldn't put it past them.

If they did that they might as well drop a bomb on that island because the end result will be the same. 

The Prosecutor in Dutch law is supposed to be neutral, not an advocate for either the victim or the defendant or suspect but a purveyor of justice.

HA!  That's a good one for considering KJanssen in the role of suspect advocate instead of for the victim at all.  There seems to be no one who is an advocate for victims.  That's why sixteen years old girls have to move away after being gang raped with the evidence on the cell phone and internet messages of the culprits!  No crimes against society seem to exist in these regards and unless the victim fights for themselves, they basically have no real voice other than this sham of a DA whose position is supposed to remain neutral.

Even that would be an improvement over Janssen who was clearly an advocate for the defense.

.

On many occasions, Dan Riehl mentioned that Paulus not only wants to sue all stated by Stom, but bloggers as well.  Tacopino was obviously the attorney who put this in his head, because it was about the time that Rizzo came up in the conversation.  I am sure Observor and Anna will recall that as well.

I bet you could if Shangie really lives in Florida and he writes to you.  But given that he only posted for 4/5 days, I always believed he was temporarily in Florida, and when back in Aruba mutated into two different "cells":  one born in Aruba to Dutch parents, a member of AHATA, with permanent residence in the USA, the other born in the Netherlands, member of AHATA too, with residence in Aruba.

Best of luck Lala's... you have the best verifier available.

Deepak stated in an email to a friend of his on that sunday or monday morning, that "the girl had put her hands down his pants". he was confronted with this in an interrogation and said he "made that up".  

I am not sure of the particular Caribbean paper that ran it, but before they were arrested, either of them, they all three said they had had consensual sex with Natalee, and if memory serves, that was also stated to the Mt Brook party.

STom - But I know what email addresses Shango and Simian used.  IF they used the same and especially if the IP was the same we could more or less assume a match.

Yes, in their fantasy world, these people seem to hear about somebody receiving $3 million from McDonald's over spilled coffee and so they think anything is possible in the good old U.S. of A. 

Deepak's suit is the result of this kind of magical thinking I do believe and must be financed by something like AHATA.  Well, this is really going to throw that in the crapper because how can he sue Dr. Phil when the Aruban Prosecutor is saying worse things about Deepak than Dr. Phil did?

And now I wonder if AHATA will pay for the costs that will result from this and the sanctions Dr. Phil is asking for from this suit.  Will they pay that or stick the Kalpoes with it or what exactly?  Just totally default and have outstanding judgment against the Kalpoes for twenty years?

But I do think Deepak's suit was a sort of trial balloon for further actions and the rest of those jerks trying to get rich off the crimes of their devil spawn.  Doesn't get much lower than that.

.

I know who Shango is. :wink:

It was AM Digital and if you hold on a bit I'll get a copy for you

Evening all!
I just got here.  I am fearful that the reporter on Aruba has been pulled back to AL.
Just speculating...but it has sorta looked that way.  I haven't heard anything all day, but must admit that I have not watched anything but football.

I agree, but I think it is possible than someone may have agreed to procure compensation eventually, under the assumption that sooner or later, JvdS would be deleted from the suspect list and the case would be dismissed.

The real Shango is not in Florida... he never was...only his hands were there to type the riddles...do you guys think I just read all that crap and not give it any thought?

Hey Magnolia! I think you're right...local news only reported on K2's being released, nothing about Beth or Dave.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/AMDig060405sex.jpg)

Intelligence has never been one of their virtues.

If anyone should be filing lawsuits, it is the hapless tourists lied to about the lack of crime in Aruba when we see it constantly in their own newspapers.

Every tourist who has gone there in the past five years has likely been told that whopper about no crime, one murder in last twenty years or some outrageous lie about how safe Aruba is.

A class action lawsuit for false advertising would be more appropriate than trying to sue bloggers or other people for defaming a named suspect in killing a tourist.

It has been repeated over and over that he posted from FL, but I accept it's possible that he did have a VPN, posted from a provider outside of the US with a server in Florida or wrote the comments in conjunction with someone that was in Florida at the time.

Why would AHATA risk enormous amounts of money on the Kalpoe Brothers? Are they paying for Joe Tacopina's huge Attorney costs also?

Or perhaps the Aruban people should launch a class action lawsuit for the incredibly shitty job their governemnt did handling Natalee's case.

It might be they are trying to recoup the loss to tourism by suing, but it will have the reverse effect on tourism for people will fear going there out of fear they might be sued about anything that happens, or if they are not sued, they will die at the end of a rope with their hand in their pocket.  Someone is giving AHATA some very bad advice or is intentionally trying to bankrupt Aruba.

Not to mention getting their mitts on at least some sizable portion of any award given the Kalpoes.  They are foolish enough to think they might actually get  $800 million for the reputation of these two bums who would likely never see that much money in their entire miserable lives no matter what they did.

Oh, I know, Satish has had his career as a brain surgeon damaged by all this but aside from that how delusional is it to think their reputations worth even fifty cents let alone that amount.

Yes, they have wasted a lot of money and got nothing in return but heartache. LOLOLOL Laughing again. Fools!

Time for me to hug Nemo.....


Still waiting to Shango to call...waiting...waiting...

Simian, old buddy, let me know....I am waiting for you too. 

From the article that Klassend posted:

" the three young men, declared that they had taken Natalee to that area, had sex with her and then dropped her at the holiday inn resort"

The problem with that newspaper article is that we dont have any declarations in hand that support it. If true, it does provide a motive for a killing and the hiding of the body

I don't think AHATA is risking anything...the lawyers are taking the chance.  If they collect, they keep a hefty percentage of the indemnification.  This percentage is calculated based on the possibilities of recuperating damages. The harder the materialization of collection is, the higher their share.  And on the mean time, they receive as palliative compensation other benefits such as free media exposure. 

For someone like Tacopina, "Any Publicity is Good Publicity".  Most lawyers base their credentials on professional achievements.  Tacopina bases his on opinions from media outlets and personalities, as if he were on the Best Seller on the NY Times.  Check his site http://www.tacopinalaw.com .  He markets the Tacopina name as if it were a commercial good, a brandname.  He wants media time, to exploit and publicize the Tacopina Trademark. 

If he eventually sues the H-Ts and or other parties on behalf of the Van der Sloots or AHATA, he will not care about the consequences for his clients, because even if the legal actions backfires, they would have served their end, which is to encourage people to talk about him, to become better known.

perhaps Mos is hoping that Natalee is found with the search boats before the 31st

seems like that may be what he is hoping for because the BUGS might have overheard something that will link the suspects to something that she is either buried with.

chelebele....i am sorry nobody warned you beforehand......i have been there a couple of times in the past but refuse to subject myself to the hate the resides there....just totally depresses me that there are actual human beings that have no empathy and are just down right spiteful!

magnolia....i have appreciated your birmingham updates! so, i assume nobody knows if beth,john q and dave left today after their marathon session....i hate the thought that beth has to spend the night there one more night after the kick to the gut she has had to take!

Klaasend -- Thanks for posting this.  I knew I had heard somewhere that there were reportedly some admissions by the 3 about sex at some point. 

Here are a few more questions from a new guy --

In the recorded conversation in the police van, Joran says something about helping the 2 of them with the choller, which I think is a drug dealer.  What's the speculation on what Joran meant by that?

What about the reference by Deepak or Satish in the same transcript that "Freddie knows what happened to the girl, if anyone does" and "Freddie needs to tell the truth," or something like that?

I spent some time with all of the Shango / Simian stuff a couple of years ago.  I am sure there are a lot of posts about the 2 of them, and I will go back and look for them, but can someone give a really short summary of the state of current opinion re: who they are and why they were posting all of that stuff?

Thanks.

That is what I have been thinking, Robots.  I also think that is why he is waitig to file charges.

There was nothing new on the local news tonight.  Some footage of Satish getting out of a car at home...looked like it was borrowed from CNN to me.
All about the cheerleaders killed in the car accident.  That was in my tiny little town.

it also is getting clearer that the prosecutor is going after joran in a big way
and that K2 will get whats coming to them for hiding a body.

if they get joran they get K2

if they dont get joran they wont get K2

at least thats what i think

i also think Mos has PLAN "B" ready to go into action

Merkus, the choller remark has always bothered me.  It is my thinking that Paulus has something on the Kalpoes that he holds over them like a guillotine and after reading this statement, I think it has something to do with a choller.  Who knows?  Maybe they "ran over" a choller, and Paulus represented them or Joran lied for them about it.  I think for anyone who lives in Aruba, this might be a good project to look into.  Joran seems to imply someone was run over by a car that involved either DK or SK, and it is not far from that statement he mentions the choller, and then goes back to accusing them of getting his father into this after all he has done for them.

:shock:  I had never looked at his sight before!  It DOES read like a Best Seller from NY times commercial.  But scariest of ALL!  It quotes GQ magazine calling him "Hottest Attorney"! :roll:  Did I say  :shock:

try www.smdginc.com if you'd like to see who's running the p.r. for aruba's anti-holloway program.  it's steve cohen's group that advises political candidates in the u.s.  dirty politics is their specialty.  check out some of the campaigns for some of their clients they have listed.  imo, if you can dig deep enough you might find a taco connection.
dennisintn

I have a hard time believing Tacopina's entire law firm is doing this for free and the Chicago Attorneys are working Pro Bono..They would have to be deaf dumb and blind to take on Dr.Phil especially after Steve Cohen stated on the same show at least two of the boys had sex with Natalee. We also have the famous PI out of chicago that worked for the Van Der Sloots about the same time Posner admitted hiring his own Investigators. Something is all too fishy about all of this and I dont think these extremely expensive Lawyers would risk anything on these 3 lying punks.IMO

WTF?  Is this a joke or am I really this tired....  :-?   On his web page is a pdf, by one of our own MOnkeys????  A seemingly more valid advertisement?

http://www.tacopinalaw.com/pdfs/JoeTacopino.GQ.pdf

G'night, Monkeys.  Keep the faith, keep the blog going, keep your chins up and keep Natalee and her family in your prayers.

Klaas?  Help me out here....   I've had a long day, moving a friend on my birthday and I'm either going crazy or missing a bad joke......

I agree that Mos is the "real deal", but there are limitations to what he will do.

1. He (his team) will attempt to put together a case to try the suspects.

2. However, that does not mean he will put them on trial.

3. He will not coverup any evidence he finds.

4. However, he will not expose the coverup he knows has already taken place.

5. He will not do anything that will place another prosecutor, policeman, or judicial authority in jeopardy.

Mos has been given a difficult "nut to crack", he has been asked to prosecute the suspects but not to prosecute the coverup by law enforcement and the politicians. If he is going to crack the case, he will need to do both. Keep in mind, in the end, its the politicians he has to please first. The netherlands do not want the coverup exposed and he has been told that. IMO



 

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/03/14/joe-tacopina-meets-the-no-spin-zone-and-crumbles/

Members of the family along with supporters of the Van der Sloot family have made contributions to their defense.

In my opinion, Posner's Private Investigator and Paulus are the same one = Earnie "Dirtytricks" Rizzio, now deceased.

Are you are referring to the writer of the article in GQ magazine (which is what the PDF is)?  Not sure what you mean by one of our own Monkeys since I know Monkeys by their nicknames  :wink: And we don't give out "real life" names here.  I'm sure there is more than one person in the USA with that name.

Then I better email you.

Its getting late, maybe someone can edit the typo's in my post  (1,2,3,4,5 and his name)

Thank You

MOS needs to do his job as ugly as it is

I would love to see who contributed to that fund..Same donors to the Kalpoes also? Must be some enormous donations :wink:


So much for the case being pro bono as originally advertised. It would appear that “supporters of the family” have made contributions to the defense fund. Wouldn’t everyone want to get a look at that list of donors?

 :shock:  The tennis shoe(s)??  :shock:  :P

Klaas, email sent to gmail.   Please explain?

i would eat spiders if they existed and they were found  :cool:

I've responded  :lol:

Thank you San,  another day, another year older ;)   I try to skip them, but this one really sucked...  I am soooo exausted and trying to catch up.....

 :shock: I may have to save this post just in case..Do you have a web camera?  :lol:

Don't worry Robots..Spiders are a delicacy in some remote parts of Asia and Africa  :silent:  :cool:

Web camera...that's a good one  :lol:

LOL - We can take up a fund and send one to him if he doesn't  :lol:

Edited to add:  Then I'll put it on Youtube  :lol:

He even said spiders as in plural  :shock:..I will gladly donate money to a webcam  :D

i have a digital camera and a video camera, but i dont have a web cam

i was in third grade and i ate 2 spiders,

i was trying impress Mary Jo :)

i got no where with her, she thought it was gross

LOL - the whole thing stung  :cool: :wink:

Dihannah - did you get my email?

Robots,

That's  quite an array of things you have said you would eat if this or that happened including roadkill, your left arm and various other things.  Hope someone has been keeping tabs on all this but might make even a Robots sick!

i know  :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
BUT, i have not puked in over 20 years

never gotten the flu shot and have not been sick in a long time


KNOCKING on wood now  :wink:

Yes, I responded, got kicked of my wireless, and rebooted.  Just toooo strange of a coincidence....  But thank you!

I dont think the chics at any age like them spiders,especially if one of the legs was still on your lips  :wink:

I dont think the girls are very impressed with the lying Joranstein either  :silent:

(http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/2494/joransecretsew0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

However, it shows his true professionalism and how sick he really is to put that up!  :roll:  Now he disgusts me even more, if that's possible......   I s'pose he thinks that's funny?   

He's an assbite

IMO, very astute observations Stom.

Not to confuse anybody, this was for Klaas, she knows what I'm talking about...  Let's just say Tacopino is TRULY Tacky!  Proven by his website.   Ok, I'm beyond delirious, so going to bed now.

Robots,  I'm sure you have a gut of "Steel".  ;)  :)

Nite Dihannah

Robots - when I was 4 I ate one of those big green flys because someone bet me I wouldn't

 :shock:

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Since there appears to be no news right now, think I'll "buzz"  :lol: out of here for about 15 minutes and go play some games.  Be back in a few.

Good night all. I am optimistic. My thinking is, Dutch law prohibits detention of K2 if they are only suspected of improper disposal of a body. That is supposedly a "minor" crime. If they are that far with the investigation, that is a quantum leap from last time when they refused to admit there WAS a body. And, since 2K was with J that night, either Urine of the ditch or Paul of the ditch made the need for such disposal necessary. Doogslag (manslaughter). :batman:

I agree NCDan.  I also think it does no good to be unoptimistic.  We have to hope it's different this time.

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :smt102

I had a warped childhood - I never ate spiders. :shock: :-| :silent:

Sniffed your share of magic markers?

JK

Good morning.  Still trying to catch up.

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

Now THIS is a cool website!  Great information from the horse's mouth on the ship headed to Aruba to search for Natalee.

I still believe that it was Steve Cohen that spewed the garbage to Bill O'Reilly several months back re: Natalee Drug OD. breaking news  :roll: story. By the way...has Bill ever mentioned this again- on air??

Nut, I think BOR worked it in when he had Greta on right after the three were arrested. 

Cohen is smarmy.  He looks like a crook or pervert or both to me. 

I have one I will donate!!!

Klaas and Di...you have mail on this one!!!

I read that you all can get through to Beth Holloway and am hoping you will pass along this message, so that her private investigator or the FBI  can pursue it.  What i am about to tell you sounds crazy; please know i have nothing to gain from going out on this limb: I have a friend who is a very shy private person, a medium, who does not seek publicity like some other mediums out there.  She has been used by the police to solve crimes, but for reasons i won't go into here, has a policy not to come forward unless she is first approached by the family or police to solve a mystery.  She does not normally reveal her visions to others, but this one is so troubling she finally told me: Since the abduction, she has been having reoccurring dreams that Natalee was sold to the slave trade, but because her case became too notorius has been hidden away and is being held in Caracao or Caracas by two men in a decrepet cement building. she sees Natalee being drugged and cigarette burned, but still alive. She purposely does not watch the news, so she did not know about the recent developments, but of late she is getting an urgent message of "two weeks", like perhaps she only has a few weeks to live. I know that this all sounds bizarre, and you would probably think me a crackpot, (if I read this, I might also) but i had to pass it on, just in case it might help.  God bless you all and prayers for Natalee.

hopefull - I don't know how to respond to your post so will let Klaas handle that one. I think we would all hope for Natalee to be alive but I also think whatever Mos has in hand currently might speak against that possibility.

STom is correct, Joe T isn't driven by a desire for credibility but rather for fame. It's well known he's wanted a cable show for some time now, so don't we have to ask why that hasn't happened? If people think Geraldo is a risk can you only imagine what sane producers think about Joe T? He's good for ratings and for sensationalism but he would generate too many possible lawsuits with his own unfiltered mouth. I remember one article in which he details first meeting his wife and how she was "unattainable" and how he pursued her. It was a classic tale of him perceiving her to be the uptown girl he couldn't have, so having a 'prize' is more important to him than genuinely falling in love? He's competitive, that's fine for his workplace (truly credentialed attorneys don't even view him as competition unless you want to slum with the Mafia) but there are reams of stories out there to prove marrying someone just to impress others who you 'caught' rarely results in truly happy relationships on both sides. It's like his move to CT, he so wants to be part of that Town & Country life because he grew up shut out of those arenas. Well I hate to tell him but one, those folks never truly accept you Joe they just tolerate you; two, there are far bigger rats with big bats to trip you up in high society than where you grew up too. Likely you'll ultimately get what you deserve.

Joe T rant over now.

I don't know if this was posted prior but it's video of K2 being released yesterday

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/12/01/vo.aruba.kalpoes.released.cnn

Yup....Nelson Oduber and AHATA are on their client list.

 :2thinky:  This may sound crazy too, but I think I have heard/read/seen this exact same scenario somewhere before. It rings a bell with me, I just can't remember where or when I saw it. I am going to say IMO this is not what happened to Natalee.

my ex used to laugh and brag about finding a nest with robin's eggs and then telling his younger sister it was a malted milk egg. poor thing she bit right into it  :shock:

Finally! Now we know how you can get to and from the store so quickly.   :wink:

It must be good to be a criminal in Aruba you get your own police escort home  :roll: .

The "two week" reference sticks out for me  :wink:

And with a laugh and a hand shake by a man I persume to be a policeman when Satish enters the car.  :smt097

Hey Simian!  I am still waiting...I am relentless...if you know any thing get with the program and tell me....Who is the 5th suspect?  Where is he now?  Where was the party?  Why did he need an alibi? 

Yes, I am still waiting...someone that knows Simian needs to tell him I am calling him out.  He can email me at cindoal@yahoo.com.  It's all for you, Simian.  I am waiting.

Nut ... in an October, 2007 interview with Beth ... Bill O'Reilly claimed that his source was the FBI.  Gerold Dompig conveyed the same scenerio back in March, 2006 in the 48 Hours Mystery interview.  It appears that Hans Mos is claiming the same scenario in regards to the happenings of the past week.

I am somewhat inclined to believe the theory that Natalee died unintentionally but ... O'Reilly, Dompig and Mos fail to address some  big issues.

1.  They are all silent in regards to the participation of Paulus and the sons of the elite in the events that encompass that fateful morning when Natalee Holloway went missing.

2. They are silence in regards to the need for Natalee's remains to "disappear"?  What incriminating evident was on her person that would have implicated others?

3.  Which one of the participants who participated in Natalee Holloway's "disposal" possessed medical qualification to determine that she was deceased and ... not just passed out ... prior to the "disposal".

Janet

+++++++++++++++++

Beth Holloway
O'REILLY FACTOR
October 5, 2007

O'REILLY:  The FBI was present during the interrogations by Aruban authorities of those men and The Factor has learned what those agents believe happened to Natalee.  American agents.

The Feds say she died from a drug/alcohol overdose and someone or people ditched her body in the ocean. Thus, when the suspects denied killing her the could claim they weren't lying.

... How do you react to it?

HOLLOWAY:  Well Bill, I think we have always been concerned that drugs were involved in this, of course because the suspects, when they were giving the account of Natalee and the condition she was in in the car, it is very odd that she was falling asleep and waking up repeatedly and the bizarre things the suspects say she's saying. I think we've always felt that in some part, drugs were involved as far as someone slipping something in her drink unbeknownst to her.

Transcript Credit: Heli - RU


Gerold Dompig
48 Hours Mystery
March 22, 2006

"We feel strongly that she probably went into shock or something happened to her system with all this alcohol maybe on top of that other drugs which either she took or they gave her and that she just collapsed," says Dompig.

The crime, Dompig suspects, occurred when the body was illegally disposed of.  The boys may have acted alone.

"We’re not talking about killers here," he says

I am going to throw this out to you and see what you think.  I believe the 5th suspect is Satish.  First and second was the security guards, third was Joran, fourth was Deepak and 5th was Satish. 

Wonder if he asked for an autograph also? :shock:

I can see them saying to him there was that so bad I told you that you would be taken care of in there.  By the way did you complete our hotel accomodation card we left you on your pillow.  :D

Are you asking me?  Nope. The 5th suspect was the so called "boyfriend". The 5th suspect was the host of a "party" of some type. The 5th suspect was known to have talked or had sometype of contact with Natalee earlier in the week (which really wasn't a true week as we think of it). Therefore, Satish doesn't qualify.

There was the one time that O'Reilly said that Natalee died of
a drug overdose and his source was an Aruban official
That was when he and Rivera were on together and Rivera
said that Aruba was known for drugs and prostitution.
It created quite an uproar.

The truth about that island and those that are involved in all the shady underworld dealings...gambling, prostitution, porn, drugs, money laundering, etc...would truly shock the world as Jug said. If they ever name names...won't happen...they can't take that chance.

Blue Moon
I am going to ask you a question now... Why did they arrest those particular 2 security guards?  Of all the people they had to choose from, there were more than just these two that worked as security  in that location...why were these two guys chosen?  Anyone have any idea? 

I have wondered that myself....I believe they said that those two had been known
to approach tourist before.  Why do you think those two, Lalas?

I believe the 2 security guards were arrested and put in there to help the police to monitor what J2K were blabbing in jail.  JMO but I do believe they could not take a chance of having those boys talking to anyone so they placed the guards (probably paid off to do this) in cells next to them to account for anything they might say.

+++++++++++++++++++++

I am convinced that Steve Cohen was speaking from a foundation of knowledge when he stated at the conference that there had been an admission from two of the suspects ... admission that they had sex with Natalee Holloway.  Cohen never denied his quoted words in his feeble attempt at a retraction.

Janet

++++++++++++++++++

Steve Cohen
ARUBA TRUTH
December 7, 2005

A coalition of groups announced Friday the appointment of Steve Cohen to act as spokesperson to North American media, in regards to the Natalee Holloway disappearance case.

AHATA and the ATA appointed Cohen to deal with all media relations concerning the case which still commands media coverage in the United States. Mr. Cohen has been part of the Strategic Communications Task Force since its creation in June. He has a full knowledge of the case and is an associate of the Strategic Message Design Group that has served in an advisory capacity to both ATA and AHATA.

The goal of this action is to coordinate the responses of the private and public sectors to North American media.


Steve Cohen
CARIBBEAN VOICE
January 28, 2006

Aruba stays afloat through Natalie Holloway's investigation
By Hazel Heyer

"Anything DNA that is identified to be of Natalee's will allow us to bring a strong case forward against the three boys. We are also getting to finally talk to some of the Alabama teens who left on that plane and did not wait around for interrogation," said Cohen.
Aruba believes it is most important to get a hold of her mental state and most importantly, Natalee's physical state at the time of disappearance. "Two of the boys said they had consensual sex with her. Whether consensual or not, depends on her ability to be conscious and make a choice." said Cohen.


Steve Cohen
ARUBA TRUTH
January 29, 2006

There are concerns about the statements regarding the investigations view of whether or not any of the suspects had consensual sex with Natalee Holloway. It was not my intention to suggest that they had admitted any such actions on the official record.

Klaas ... the last quote in my post ... the date should be January 29, 2005.  Would you please edit it.

Thank you

Janet

You mean January 29, 2006?

I know that MJ was released as a suspect...but has AJ ever been given that same courtesy? 

I think it's more than a courtesy, I think you need the money to pay your attorney.  Could be AJ didn't have enough money.

Readign the PV's from both guards is quite interesting.  Yes, they must have been known to approach tourists, in fact, may have even approached some of the MB group...but why were these two out of all the others, that probably also approached tourists, singled out.  None of the 3 perps ever singled them out as being the guard they claimed saw Natalee with. 

WTF? His ostentatious display is embarrassing...Best dressed even? Heck, his shoes don't even match his suit...puh-lease  :roll:

Not sure I buy that explanation.  Seems to me that MJ didn't have enough money to pay either.  Let's see how can I say this?  Maybe MJ was a little more vocal abouthis situation and they released him as a suspect and AJ wasn't?

True.  For all we know though AJ could have been released as a suspect but with little fanfare.

I believe we all surmised based on events and Dompig's statement, that it was in fact, Dompig who was the informant in this case.

Was it not said that some possessions of Mountain Brook students that were missing from their rooms?

Yes and ... thank you.

Klaas ... my first cuppa strong caffeinated Tim Hortons coffee is now in the prcess of warming its way through my system on a cold snowy morning.  In approximately 15 minutes ... the buzz should set in and ... the cobwebs will clear and ... hopefully I will not have to bother you again.   :wink:

Have a good Sunday Monkeys.

Janet

Oh yes, I remember that.  Do we know where we heard it?  Was it just rumor or did someone actually link the theft to those particular men?

got it and responded.....not YOU for sure!!!

Morning All!

It doesn't answer your question, Lala's but I'm sure the reason that two "Black" security guards were implicated by the suspects in the first place was because they were Black. I don't have a feel for the population % of blacks on the island, but depending on the number, that probably narrowed the choices.

With the racial remarks they attributed to Natalee, obviously Jk2 thought it might be a more believable story to an American audience that Black guys committed the crime. Those sentiments might reflect attitudes on the island as well.

Never heard and I cannot recall if the kids had reported their missing items to the desk or the police, or what exactly.  It does not seem to matter in Aruba, to whom you report, as there is not going to be any action taken against perpetrators regardless, so it has been a haven for criminal activity where Americans spend billions of dollars to be used, abused, coerced, robbed and murdered without consequence.

I am just speculating here but travel to Aruba must be getting sticky since there is Chavez on one side threatening to overtake the Caribbean and touting pictures of Oburder, with the help of his Iranian contacts, and the Dutch who want to keep Aruba in their clutches, that maybe someone has concluded the war on terror is in their backyard, Aruba, and if they don't rescue it by doing the right thing, Iran will own South America and Aruba will be used as a training base and become a target of democracies, but not for leisure and vacation.

Good Morning everyone and welcome to our new monkeys!!  None thanks for posting this as I am trying to catch up from being away from SM since Friday....since the news of them being released came out....this video makes me sick to my stomach.....their asses should still be in jail.....aruba is the rotten crotch of the world....I HATE THAT PLACE

I hadn't seen the video, Sunny, so thanks for bringing it here. I agree, it's sickening.

Tylergal just said a mouthful! Great post!

If anyone doubts our State Department has been in contact with this fiasco all along, doubt no longer.  I can assure you that our State Department knows when even a fly moves near Chavez.  There is technology owned by our government that can track everything.  Remember when Joran was taken in at the airport in New York because he was on "a list."  What kind of list is that?  Is that a list of potential criminals, a list of potential drug dealers, a list of potential terrorists, a list of people who have intention to do bring items or information from one country to the next that could be harmful to our economy, our democracy?  We don't know but somebody up there does.  He was on "a list," nonetheless, which means he will not go obliviously into the night.

Amen Tyler.....

Morning CCB...None posted the video...sickening huh!!   Tyler's psot always give us a lot to think about...Love ya Tyler

yup!  :cool: (that has been my mantra for some time). OUR GOVRNMENT KNOWS

Aruba needs to understand, for their own good and benefit, that nothing ever remains the same and adjust. 

At one time the South boasted some of the richest men in the world, but that was before the Civil War.  When one "sect" of people becomes jealous or tired of another, wars break out and change things.  Sometimes these wars are only civil wars, but wars nonetheless. 

Just as we have a shadow government running our country and causing the dollar to fall and our economy going to China, there are shadow governments in many governments which cause governments and their economy to change.  Aruba, is Rudy your shadow government?   

Most governments, whose leaders have a vision can re-adjust but it seems you must have someone with a vision.  Perhaps Aruba is like the USA, the citizenry is dumbed down to the point they can no longer see what the real painting is here, it's so vocal and yet so abstract.

Tylergal you have done your homework and ... in my opinion ... you are right on!!

I contend that Holland's desire to hold onto Aruba and keep the island from aligning itself with Chavez ... is just another conflict of interest that abounds in the Natalee Holloway case.  The implication is ... the "powers that be" in Holland will not undermine the corrupt Aruban investigation.

If Holland was serious in regards to her desire that justice for Natalee Holloway prevails ... in the initial stages of the Aruban investigation the "powers that be" would have strongly advised Aruba that the FBI or ... another international investigative agency should be called upon ... one whose members have no personal or professional relationship with Paulus van der Sloot.  I cannot comprehend how the Dutch and Arubans are allowed to investigate ... prosecute and ... judge their own.  What is the definition of "conflict of interest" under Dutch law?

Janet

+++++++++++++++++

Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
October 4, 2005

GRACE:  Jossy, regarding the connection, what I perceived to be a close connection between the judge, Paulus Van Der Sloot and the retired chief of police who initially handled Natalee`s case, Van Der Stratten, were they friends?

MANSUR: Of course, they were friends. It stands to reason they were friends because Paul Van Der Sloot had many friends within the police department; he had many friends within the Department of Justice. And he had many friends with -- and he was friendly with all the judges in Aruba. He worked out of the same office as they did and did the same work.

I am still hung up on the k2's release.....on helping to him a body....NATALEE ...messing with evidence..what kind of shxt hole is this where you can be a part of this and walk right out of jail....we had dinner with friends last night and although they don't follow things as closly as we do...were still totally shocked that this could happen...I listened to Mos' press conference....but it still just grates me to the bones.....

Any news of Beth, Dave and JQ's meeting with Mos???  Damn this family has suffered so much and this latest blow has to  hurt them to the very core of their being

I HATE ARUBA

I agree totally robots...this is what I think also.

I agree Tyler.

Now that I am over the shock...I think it's funny!!
I WISH I were a journalist for GQ Magazine!!! THAT would be a fun job!! However...if I were to pick the hottest lawyer...lackopenis would not even be LAST on the list!!! He would be in a whole new category all by himself...and it wouldn't be a good one!!!
Call me crazy...but I think JQK is sexy!! Love his deep sexy voice and he could leave crackers in my bad anyday!! lol
I DID NOT JUST SAY THAT!!!!  :shock: lol

I agree with you and I am an old woman but who considers a loud, obnoxious, big mouth braggart as "hot?"  Obviously, incompetent men who considers him a spokesman for their cause, whatever that cause may be? Is GQ a men's magazine or a women's magazine?  Or does it appeal more to metrosexuals?  Just asking?  My husband always considered it a magazine for "pretty boys," and my boys subscribed to it while in high school but their view of it changed once they were college graduates.

We'll have to poll some of our male Monkeys.

Do REAL men read GQ?! :-?

LOL...Good Morning and yes you said it...don't you start this morning!   :lol:LOL

lol!!!
HEY!!! I drank wine last night and didn't spill a drop!!!!
And don't tell me you don't think JQK is hot...I know you better!!!

My my such wondeful women but with such poor taste:::))))) JQK, hot????????? my my my what has this world come to, a nation of near sighted females!!!!!!!!

ROFLMAO!!! Leave crackers in your BAD? That's a freudian slip if I ever heard one!

Actually, Idstlou, He could leave a few crumbs in mine as well.  :lol:

Ditto.   :wink:

... and with that said ... Tamikosmom is off to church.   :lol:

Later,  Janet

hey Lldstlou...I totally agree with you on your thoughts about JQK  :wink: and he is far more intelligent and has higher moral standards than ugga maffo lackopenis...

That is the time I was referring to.

Ok...he's HOT..... :lol: :lol:

Someone said they had evidence that they had stolen things from the MB kids? Or traded for drugs??  :roll:

Private Eye - beauty is in the eye of the beholder  :lol:  Compared to JoeT, JQK is an adonis.   :lol:


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/johnjoe.jpg)
 

Hi private,

It's not all in the "eyes," per se. Granted JQK is nice looking and definitely has a mystique about him, but men who are smart and just are very hot in my book! Just speakin' for myself, ya know  :lol:

he can leave crackers in your bed also? lol

Klaas needs to put Jorans 2 sized sneakers on that photo  :lol:

I think I could make an exception for him  :geek:

He certainly has CLASS...no one can deny that!

great comparison Klaas :lol:

For some reason they removed the detail from this web site

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

you must sure be male!  LOL

Peaches  Thanks for sharing this!  What an awesome writer as well.  This is truly a fascinating blog and so exciting to be able to read and feel like I'm actually on the boat with them.  I never realized we were going to have those kind of updates during the water search, right on the boat from the 'horse's mouth' and with such passion and emotion with explanation of the technical facets. 

I know Red said we would be getting something, but not quite like that, if it's the same as what he was talking about.

lol, you know what they say about men who wear expensive sandals from Milan don't you....

hiding small feet? :smt002

you know what they say about small feet don't you?
lackopenis?  :smt119

Hi Mishy!  I agree that smart men are hot....and JQ's air of confidence is sexy

Interresting.  Wonder if they were getting threats?

uummmmmm perhaps thy decided it wasn't wise to post everything....

I pick the door on the left!!!!!

I'll ask again :lol:....any news on Mos' meeting with Dave, Beth and JQ??

Did you see the article I posted yesterday?
Said they met with Mos for an hour and the interrogators for 3 hours. That is the only thing I saw besides renho's bs. :roll:

Not that I've seen

NEVER, Do not read rags

is it me or has everything been removed temporarily for review?

 :shock: They did!  I was just there 20 mins. ago reading!  Wonder what's up with that????

I agree with this, and let me explain why:
Since it first became obvious to us that this case was turning into a fiasco 2.5 years ago, I began wondering if perhaps Natalee's case didnt somehow end up smack dab in the middle of an ongoing "sting" by our government concerning drugs, money laundering, etc. and just tangling everything up. That would explain why so many FBI agents were on the island almost immediately (for damage control regarding their ongoing operation), it would explain Charles Croes saying that this goes far beyond just a missing young girl (paraphrased), Bachus commenting something to that same effect in his comments to the press after he met with ALE, etc., it would explain how so many people were suddenly discovered dead shortly after Natalee went missing... the guy with the Columbian necktie (I dont buy the story that his wife did it  LOL), the guy found dead in some kind of large storage container, and others (I know I am probably stating these wrong, it's been so long). If our govt had already been in the middle of a major sting operation when Natalee disappeared, and perhaps had been watching PVDS already, maybe even JVDS and others for drug dealing (maybe they were very small fish, but nevertheless had gotten themselves noticed regarding drugs, thus involved...perhaps because of who they got their drugs from, or who they were running drugs for, etc.). This would also explain JVDS's seemingly unlimited credit at casinos, his VIP status at CnCs - being allowed in, drinking, etc. even underage (he stated somewhere early on that he had a card he showed at a separate door to get in..in his PV I think, but perhaps one of his interviews). It would explain how Natalee's body and personal things have never been found if she was disappeared by professionals. PVDS might have called in a favor from someone on the side of the bad guys since I totally believe he is involved up to his eyeballs with the Mafia. And now maybe the sting has been completed or nearly so, to the point that everything can now be brought to an end and things involving Natalee's case brought to light. Or perhaps Mr. Mos is just gonna go ahead and try to get the case solved anyway, regardless of whether they were told not to..or not. This is all just speculation of course but it really seems feasible to me, and answers quite a few questions regarding this extremely complex case. I think it is completely possible that this case is intertwined with something MUCH more involved and that has played at least a part in why it has taken so long to solve.

I just noticed, I still have it up in another window where I was reading, where I haven't refreshed and it's still showing.  I'm going to copy and save all the text to my puter for now.

you can still see the cached page

would be interesting to find out... Watch out Aruba the troops are coming :lol:

His name & contact info is on the site, so maybe he was contacted for content...

I would like to see that typed copy of the press release on the Judges decision to release Kalpoes again. Can someone put it ip? Thank You.

thanks LD...no I haven't gone back to read.....would you repost it for me and others who might have missed it.... :lol:

I did get an email that contained renHO's statement on RU...but as well know that pure bull crap!! :roll: :roll:

thanks Klaas....I know we probably won't hear any details.....but would love to know how they felt it went

I wonder if his web page can track where people visit from like you can here.. be interesting to see how many arubans are hitting that site

I'll find it again...think it was CNN...

Whaaaaat!!  I need that back!!  :2doh:

Gabby that goes right along with Beth and Jug saying they had information that would be shocking

Thank God the window was still opened.   I have it all saved on my computer, images and all. 

thank you

Still cant find it, it was a photo of the press release with the Judges ruling...

Hi Snoopy!!!! :lol:

WTG Di!!

I got it saved! ;)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/6ly4kyq.jpg)

oops!!!
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/12/01/aruba.holloway/

Like SunnyinTX, I was thinking maybe security reasons....not sure.

 :D :D :D  :D

Hi Sunny and everybody

O/T real quick!!! So sorry!!!
Did ya see this girlfriend???!!!
GO BUCKEYES!!!!RANKINGS AP Top 25
Ohio St.
LSU
Oklahoma
Georgia
Virginia Tech
USC
Missouri
Kansas
Florida
Hawaii

Awesome, huh....  :D

I think it's very interesting that we HAVEN'T heard a word from the family.  Very different approach this time around.

Has anyone seen Rob in the last few days?  He's been missing in action...during all the action, in fact.   

Has Simian called my name yet?  Still waiting?  Where the heck did Shango go?  I am getting tired of asking all the questions after 2 years. 

Hey Aruba!  If you had asked some questions 2 years ago...we might have the answers by now.


What ever happened to Tony?  Our super secret informant from Aruba?  Any new suicides down there lately?

Is Deepak still breathing? Still walking the streets?  Thinking out loud again.  :roll:

One team on that list...still undefeated...still overlooked.

Good point!
I think we would hear about it if they were not 100% convinced it was legitimate this time around.

Not a whole lot posted. The following was printed in the CNN article I posted above:

Klaas,

Please see my post

Re: Monkey Musings Daily Open Discussion #9 11/19 -
« Reply #162 on: November 29, 2007, 09:10:16 PM

TIA

Sleddogs:  I can't answer that question, email Dugga ok?  dugga@scaredmonkeys.com

Hawaii correct?

I would assume that Mos asked them to stay quiet for a few more days...at least until December 31st.

I am not sure how many of you have watched this Greta disinfo program this weekend, but note that her main source is the Sporter.  Then she goes to Tito, another 'impeccable' source, according to Greta.  It's no wonder Beth shuns her like the plague until it is advantageous to Beth.  I think JQK is calling the shots for Beth and telling her to dodge Greta.  He knows that Great is closely aligned with the group of attorneys we so hate, i.e., Johnny Cochran, joe tacopino and that slug that defended Scott Peterson.  That seems to be her "group." 

She redeemed herself when first coming to Fox, but she has found another venue to espouse her dislike for justice and the rule of law.  JMHO.

Let's not forget her defense attorney mindset...permeates all she does.  Goes back to her roots, both liberal and professional.

He did.  It was in one of his statements.  He said something to the effect that he would ask the family not to speak of the meeting.

So tell me, does the MO of this case sound familiar?

With all the twists and turns in the bizarre case of missing and murdered Emily Sander/Zoey Zane, one things remains constant … the number one suspect in this case is the individual she left the bar with and was last known seen with. Missing persons cases begin to sound familiar don’t they?

Sad Conclusion to Bizarre Case of Missing Emily Sander/Internet Porn Star Zoey Zane Body Positively ID’d

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/12/02/sad-conclusion-to-bizarre-case-of-missing-emily-sanderinternet-porn-star-zoey-zane-body-positively-idd/

Now the work that still needs to be done by police and investigators is finding Israel Mireles. Emily Sander was last spotted leaving a bar in El Dorado, KS on Friday night with Israel Mireles. According to her friend, Emily Sander and Israel Mireles, met that night at the bar. Emily Sander had not been seen again until her body was discovered last Thursday. So the main suspect in this case is the individual who Emily was last seen leaving the bar with … MO’s in missing persons/murder cases begin to sound rather similar.

Perhaps they are reviewing any logistic info...to be sure no one knows exactly where they are going? Seems like they are too smart to have hinted at anything like that though...mmm......this is interesting.

mmmmmm....I noticed WangChung is back at it again at RU today. He has been 'missing' for 10 days.....mmmmmm :2thinky:

Who from MB filed a police report?  Who took that report?

Anyone from MB step up to the plate to identify the stolen / traded merchandise?

Anyone step up to admit they even tried to lodge a complaint with ALE?

When will the insanity stop?? I have lost a lot of faith in whats good and whats bad.. The sad things is that I never knew there were so many twisted individuals in the world but seeing the same dirt bags cheering for these killers just is too much to watch or hear on tv.. I come here just to see if by chance that someone has a conscience on that island but so far not a one.. I have a hard time putting too much faith in finding Natalee in the ocean but I do hope I'm wrong.. I just feel that everyone on that island is playing a cruel game and I have a hard time watching or hearing these idiots on tv.. This is the most simple case in the world and this would of been closed the first 24 hours if they wanted it solved.. Well hopefully my feelings are wrong and this time they will give Beth and Dave some answers if not their daughter back.. Have a good day and hopefully Joran and the others are having a rotten day..

td

Wang Chung should stay missing.  I think that Wang is female...just such a dirty mind that one would assume male.

Yes Red, the last person seen with them.

I think the repeat, of the Peter DeVries investigation, was broadcast last night. He's convinced Joran lies and is involved.  Wish he would head to the island.

Posted by Glenda at Ru:



Question for Glenda:  When was the last time you dove to 1000 feet?   

I am going to ask an oceanography friend who taught at the graduate level.  I am sure she is qualified to answer that and if she does not know the answer, some of her contacts will. 

Good one Klaas!!! IMHO-My hopes are positive that justice will prevail with this new investigative crew.

While I am awaiting Ann's response to the temperature of the Caribbean at that level, I found this.

Ocean temperature also varies with depth. In general, the temperature falls as the depth increases. The warm surface waters extend to depths of about 500 feet (150 metres) in the tropics, and about 1,000 feet (300 metres) in the subtropics. Below the surface waters, the temperature drops rapidly, forming a layer called the thermocline. The thermocline varies in thickness, from about 1,000 feet (300 metres) to 3,000 feet (910 metres). Below the thermocline, the water cools more slowly. Close to the deep-sea floor, the temperature of the ocean ranges between 34 and 39 °F (1 and 4 °C) (Eliav, Weiss.)

Thanks, Dayhiker.  I had probably heard this but had forgotten it.  I appreciate your prompt response so that puts to rest that pack-a-tales.

I remember reading about the F-16 flyovers back in 2005.

Did they make any recordings of the waters around Aruba?

Anyone look there?

Who decided where the F-16's searched?  Who had their hands in that cookie jar?

If a crab trap were missing, if there was suggestion she was left at the beach, why didn't the F-16 do a detail fly over of the waters surrounding Aruba?

Or, maybe they did?

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/temperature_depth.jpg)

Well said

Has anyone seen or heard from Rob lately?  I have not seen him on here and I am worried about him.  Rob, if you are around, let us hear from you. 

He's updated his blog today so I'm guessing he's ok.

Well, yes, I sort of knew that about refrigeration and salt, but was wondering what the temperatures were in the Caribbean as opposed to the Atlantic, Pacific, etc.

Thanks, Klaas.  I sort of miss his mixing it up and his theories, etc.  It lends itself to an interesting debate, with which I do not always agree, but enjoy nonetheless, the brain exercises.

Suffice it to say, I also enjoy seeing the programs of open-heart surgery and the off-pump bypasses, the inducement of hypothermia, cold-blood cardioplegia, stop the beating heart, etc.

Why would AHTA risk enormous amounts of money on the Kalpoe Brothers?  That is a very good question.

Here are a few thoughts that come to mind (JMHO) ~

• They misunderstand how the American justice system works.  Sometimes, 'no body' may not be an insurance policy to insure that there is 'no case'
• The term 'there is no evidence' is highly subjective
• What is the difference between "beyond a reasonable doubt" and "a preponderance of the evidence"?
• Is winning any lawsuit against Dr. Phil or Natalee's family likely to bring tourists to the island?
• How will the average Aruba profit from these lawsuits?
  
• From any boycott?
• How with the wealth of Avarice be distributed among the little people?
  
  • Perhaps it will 'trickle down' from those above?
  • Do any of these lawsuits make life better for the sons and daughters of Aruban's?
    
  • Put food on the Aruban table, or shoes on the feet of Aruban children?
  • Raise taxes to pay for them?
  
  
  Quote
  preponderance of the evidence
  n. the greater weight of the evidence required in a civil (non-criminal) lawsuit for the trier of fact (jury or judge without a jury) to decide in favor of one side or the other. This preponderance is based on the more convincing evidence and its probable truth or accuracy, and not on the amount of evidence. Thus, one clearly knowledgeable witness may provide a preponderance of evidence over a dozen witnesses with hazy testimony, or a signed agreement with definite terms may outweigh opinions or speculation about what the parties intended. Preponderance of the evidence is required in a civil case and is contrasted with "beyond a reasonable doubt," which is the more severe test of evidence required to convict in a criminal trial. No matter what the definition stated in various legal opinions, the meaning is somewhat subjective.
  http://dictionary.law.com/definition2.asp?selected=1586
  
  Quote
  evidence
  n. every type of proof legally presented at trial (allowed by the judge) which is intended to convince the judge and/or jury of alleged facts material to the case. It can include oral testimony of witnesses, including experts on technical matters, documents, public records, objects, photographs and depositions (testimony under oath taken before trial). It also includes so-called "circumstantial evidence" which is intended to create belief by showing surrounding circumstances which logically lead to a conclusion of fact. Comments and arguments by the attorneys, statements by the judge and answers to questions which the judge has ruled objectionable are not evidence. ...Evidence must survive objections of opposing attorneys that it is irrelevant, immaterial or violates rules against "hearsay" (statements by a party not in court), and/or other technicalities.
  http://dictionary.law.com/definition2.asp?selected=671&bold=
  
  Quote
  circumstantial evidence
  n. evidence in a trial which is not directly from an eyewitness or participant and requires some reasoning to prove a fact. There is a public perception that such evidence is weak ("all they have is circumstantial evidence"), but the probable conclusion from the circumstances may be so strong that there can be little doubt as to a vital fact ("beyond a reasonable doubt" in a criminal case, and "a preponderance of the evidence" in a civil case). Particularly in criminal cases, "eyewitness" ("I saw Frankie shoot Johnny") type evidence is often lacking and may be unreliable, so circumstantial evidence becomes essential. Prior threats to the victim, fingerprints found at the scene of the crime, ownership of the murder weapon, and the accused being seen in the neighborhood, certainly point to the suspect as being the killer, but each bit of evidence is circumstantial.
  http://dictionary.law.com/definition2.asp?selected=191&bold=
  
  Quote
  res ipsa loquitur
  (rayz ip-sah loh-quit-her) n. Latin for "the thing speaks for itself," a doctrine of law that one is presumed to be negligent if he/she/it had exclusive control of whatever caused the injury even though there is no specific evidence of an act of negligence, and without negligence the accident would not have happened...
  http://dictionary.law.com/default2.asp?typed=res+ipsa+l&type=3
  
  (I don't think this stuff was ever talked about on Matlock   :lol: )
  
  
  
  
  

Just to let everyone know I will be on the Crime And Punishment Radio show accross Canada tonight at 9:30pm et approx discussing the Holloway case.
For those of you not in Canada you can pick up the net feed of the show at http://www.cjob.com/ or leave comments at www.mikeoncrime.com
I believe there is a toll fee number you can call in during the show.
Now a favor can someone email me a timeline of events, it doenst have to be pages, i just want to make sure my dates are accurate.

Im not sure how long I will be on but I will try and cover as much as I can.

Dana

Well, now that we have that cleared up...back to my original question.

Why were these 2 particular security guards arrested as suspects in the first place?  I do not recall them being singled out by name by any of the 3 perps?  What prompted KJ to g o in like cowboys and take them from their homes?  What?  Why?

Thanks Klaasend. This is my read on the ruling:

1. The new evidence places at least one of the Kalpoes back on the beach after the 3 am text messages

2. This information was obtained by bugging of the Kalpoe home and it is what I heard Tacopina blurt out on Fox.

3. The new evidence contains an admission by Joran that the girl was dead to an infiltrator.

4. The police now believe the body was taken to sea Monday evening and the cell phone called can be traced equally well to an offshore location as to the casino area the boys say they were at.

In addition to this new evidence, I believe both Guido and Steve were with the kalpoes and natalee that night.

Thanks Dana - I'll be sure to tune in!

Spock - I read it the same way, thanks.

Here is my answer to your question posted earlier.

OK,  someone refresh my memory, please? Monday evening was what day in relation to the night she went missing?

Were Beth and Jug on the island Monday evening?

Beth and Jug got to aruba Monday night about 10pm.

Monday, May 30, 2005 - Natalee was seen getting into the car with JK2 at approx 1am

Monday, May 30, 2005 - Beth and Jug arrived in Aruba and starting looking for Joran.  At approx 3am (5/31/05) Beth and Jug arrived at the Sloot home but Joran was not there, was supposed to be at the casino per PVDS.  After going to the casino, Joran calls PVDS and says he's home.  Beth says Joran didn't look like he was dressed for a casino.

Thank you, Wreck.

So, it's entirely possible that instead of at any casino, Joran + Deepak + ? were in the process of disposing of Natalee's body at the time Beth and Jug arrived in Aruba.

Thank you too, Klaas!

I was trying to figure out how the calls to Joran from Paulus, after Jug and Beth arrived, fit in. I was also remembering Jug's statement that if he had it to do over again, he would have just blocked Deepak's car in until someone opened the trunk.

Could the boat be in the vacinity now and ready to search?  Seems really strange that all info was removed to be reviewed.  I know it is suppose to take 7-10 days for the trip but could they be there now (left early) and have started the search?  Just thinking out loud on this.

The Judge could not make the link between the killing and the destruction of evidence, so he released the kalpoes. I hope Mos files the appeal, at least that way three Judges will have to rule on releasing the Kalpoes.

Thanks. I saw your answer earlier...I tend to agree...my only question is why were these 2 the most likely to yield to coercion by ALE in order to accomplish this goal?

Maybe because they Were seen hanging around the kids or maybe taking something of theirs.  If the police had something on them then would have been easy to bring them in and make them cover for the boys by listening to them and relaying what was said by them. OR maybe Paulus set them up so they could protect the three (J2K) while in jail/prison.

Deepak's car was inside the fence when the "handlers" first found Joran's house.  By the time, everyone got organized and things arranged and the DEA agent had spoken to Charles Croes...the car in question was moved.  hmmmmm

Hadn't the 2 security guards been working at a hotel near the Holiday Inn where Natalee was supposedly dropped off by J2K?  IIRC the two security guards were laid off because the hotel was closed for remodeling?  And I am thinking back.  There was discussion at one time that perhaps Deepak had crossed the paths of the two security guards previously.  Shoot, it's been such a long time, but I remember some of the bit of discussion.

Are you going to send Dana the time line?  Please.

Monday eveningish-Tuesday morningish.  She went to C&C on Sunday night, left on Monday morning.  Beth was there within 24 hours of her leaving C&C.  Does that help?

" Glenda " at RU is not an expert in marine temperates.
Unless she is speaking of a Hot Marine. LOL
.. The owners of this equipment are the experts and and if they make such statements, then I would listen.

Exactly.

Regarding Joran's lawyer and wild accusations (arms dealing?) - I'm thinking that the extra page in Joran's dossier has some a little nervous.

The team does seem to be chatting up a US conspiracy angle.  I would love to see Greta read the line to Joe and ask him if that is going to be his "client's" defense......especially if he's being "retained".

I wonder if the case will makes its way into Dutch legal text books.  What might the next generation of Dutch lawyers and judges learn from this?  From family van der Sloot?

here is a little News Flash for Hans

1. GOT GET JORAN

if you get joran you will automatically get K2

if you Get K2 you will get Paulus


thats the way to do it  :cool:

If you remember, they were no where to be found during the wild goose chase that Paulus took them on that night...car was inside the gate...care was outside gate in the end...they were too busy to be gambling.

I believe the 2 security guards were arrested and put in there to help the police to monitor what J2K were blabbing in jail.  JMO but I do believe they could not take a chance of having those boys talking to anyone so they placed the guards (probably paid off to do this) in cells next to them to account for anything they might say.
I disagee in the most polite and monkey like fashion.
IMO those two were arrested to see how it would fly and if Beth and Jug and Dave had not been there and done some of their own research into the facts and knew better, it would have been life for those two. Beth was the driving force on the CNN news channels in getting these two guys released. The families of the two guards were not treated in the same fashion as the Kalpoes or the Sloots. I do remember one of their mothers being on CNN and she was being told absolutely nothing by the ALE. I don't even think she was told where her son was. The guards familes had no inside track in the Justice Ministry.

I have to agree with Kat.  Considering the way Aruba looks down on blacks (and women), the 2 black men would of been the 'easy out' for Aruba.

thanks LD......shows once again what a vile evil person renHO is.....they met with Mos for approximately one hour and about 3 with the interrogators....not being interrogated for 6 hours as renHO states....I hope that witches tongue rots right out of her ugly mouth!!

But....what prompted KJ to arrest them?  What caused those two out of several to be the ones that got arrested?  I am not claiming any inside knowledge here..just wondering why they were the ones and not some other black guards.  They weren't the only ones that fit the description.

I'm behind, but didn't Dr. Baden make the statement about the body being preserved in cold, deep water?

Wreck that ran through my mind as well...and then again as long as the killer is in jail I don't think Beth will say a word....but I hope we hear something from JQK before too much longer

As you astute monkeys have pointed out..it was Dompig that mentioned the crab trap that was stolen...so does that mean the Glenda is calling Dompig a liar?  :roll:

you are starting to show an evil streak like me..lol!!

I think it was VERY INTERESTING!!! they spent most of their time with the interrogators!!!

I think the security guards were arrested because Deepak ID'ed one of them from the security tape from the hotel where they were working.  Abraham Johns.  MJ was later hauled in as well because he shared a shift sometimes with AJ and they had been known to hang out together.

Has been speculated that J2K picked those particular guards because they passed them frequently going to and from the HI Excelsior casino.

At one time the SPECULATION was further plans were to plant things along their routine patrol route but that seemed to be abandoned in favor of perhaps rock painting for a crime scene.

Just my opinion as it's been far too long to still have links.  At least for me and doesn't seem to matter any more any way.

.

Sorry, 2NJ, I messed up that quote thingy again...gosh! :roll:

I have the link to the Crime and Punishmnet radio show open. You have to click Download now. Slows things down here, but I wanted to test it out. Will look fwd to listening.
My young ppl are in Florida right now, I voluntered to shovel snow over there when there was not a sno flake in sight. So of course it has been snowing like crazy.

she has never dove that deep...but she has sunk a whole lot lower.....b/witch

Anna ~  I agree with you, and made a similiar post a couple pages back.  (It's a biotch being invisible)  I thought too that the two security guards had been working at a hotel very near the Holiday Inn.  That hotel was closed for remodel, and I was thinking the two guards were laid off at the time or were just doing security near there.  Can't remember, it's been a while.

aruba is a hell hole

Race did not have a significant role in the arrest of Antonius Johns and Abraham Jones.  The fact that Johns is from Grenada and Jones from Bonaire probably did make them more vulnerable to becoming “dispensable” in the eyes of the police investigators, because they are immigrants.

Yes, but then we know Glenda is more knowledgeable of technology, pathology, forensics, global warming, art, hardware, contracting, stockmarket and especially murder and mayhem than all people put together, either alive or dead on the planet at this moment.

Of course, should Natalee's remains be found, then the emissaries of hell will claim it was planted to be found.  I hope they have an impeccable witness aboard and video everything.

Oh really. Hmmm.  I saw the photos of the two security guards being dragged out of their houses early in the a.m. in their boxers and handcuffs.  IIRC, that wasn't the case for Joran. 

Aruba will look even more EVIL than ever, if Hans Mos does not
do the right thing and get this to trial and get a conviction.

Aruba can pay now or they can pay later,  when you pay later
you always PAY more in the long run.

Not to mention the DUTCH will be forever linked to the CORRUPT aruba police and
dept and law enforcement

what you say Hans ?

you want to be linked with the likes of DOMPIG, PAULUS, JOE T. JORAN
and K2 !!
 
you like the sound of that? want youre kids to grow up and read how inept you were
when it is crystal clear what happened ?

come on Hans. show some guts - nobody on aruba has any

 :cool:

I think the K2 will be rearrested tomorrow.

They were too involved that night with the main suspect to be given any benefit of doubt as to the limits of their participation.

They should be fully questioned.

I would assume the Dutch are more offended than Americans.

This BS isn't going to fly long.

This is their problem and they need to deal with it.

Sure wasn't, muffybee.  And I think the fact that they were black was supposed to appeal to Hitler's sister's daughter as well, given her known racist tendencies.  Deepak has been told Natalee called them slaves so guess that also gave him the idea to select a couple of black people to go along with the Plantation mentality of the Alabama Delegation.  Course he got that little tidbit from Joran telling him Natalee said that.  Joran's way of trying to make Deepak hate Natalee.  And also a good reflection of Joran's prejudices as well instead of all the others he tries to cast aspersions upon.

Could it of been because they were working that night?  I don't remember exactly when they got laid off; if it was before or after the night Natalee disappeared.  Surely Klaas knows :D

Because their faces were known around the HI. It was Deepak / Joran / Satish who provided the story and the Ale went with it. If it hadn't been them, it would have been someone else who was around the hotels frequently. KJ as a prosecutor relied on the police to provide the information. The ALE were Van Der Stratten and Jacobs. Did Van Der Stratten go to see or talk on the phone with either of the guards families and give them a heads up ? My memory is good when it comes to the visual things I see and I watched this unfold on CNN and thought to myself, are they crazy in Aruba ? That was before the all the connections to the Sloot family and the OM and the ALE became public knowledge.

replay of greta today

the delicious sporter admitted they went to his house but didnt go in.. :roll:

sureeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee..

Also didn't some news station get a huge fine for filming the Sporter in his briefs?  Money believed in part given to Joran for his bragging of how much money he made while sitting in jail?

No such deal for the hapless security guards.

I like the way you think!

LOL......as long as I don't drink wine like you, Ill be OK :lol: I am sure the interrogators were very interested in all the info Beth and Dave and JQK had to offer

I agree...especially since the 2 security guards were taken into custody on 6/5/05 and held for a few days before J2K were brought in....unless they were in seminars on how-to eavesdrop or get J2K to talk.. :) 

muffy....you are not invisible.....I promise you that....I am scurrying trying to catch up from early this afternoon...I agree with your post....IIRC they were laid off.....and they had been bumming smokes and drinks from the tourists....and trying to hit on the young girls

And I sincerley hope that any information gleaned in this meeting is not made public.
I also hope they never used a phone in Aruba. Glenda can speculate all she wants, unless she was a fly on the wall she knows sh*&.

Allegro was the hotel....I see you buzzing around... :cool:

msmarples and all

Found a full English copy of the letter Art Woods had published in Diario.  You need to scroll a little down past the black backround and the very white newspaper backround will display.

http://renevannie.com/inhoud/kritisch/_kritisch.html

Tyler,
Thank you for those most eloquent posts this morning.  I have read back and they did not fall on deaf ears.  You are spot on as always from my vantage point.

.

I hate to disagrre with Tyler...but IMO the only thing renHo has any knowledge of is what she can do on her back or her knees :shock:

I do not believe they will be rearrested.  But then again I could be wrong because stranger things have happened.  Kalpoes pack your baggies.

The only time the so called Dutch were offended in this case was when Beth came to Aruba and handed the Sloots on a silver platter in her daughters disappeareance.  How dare she accuse this nice well known Dutch family.  Van der Straaten and Karin Janssen were highly offended.

I agree this is their problem and they need to fix what they created in the first place.  In the words of Deepak Kalpoe "enough of this BS already".  Bring them to trial for the voluntary manslaughter and throw in Kidnapping and Rape.

Amen Kat....Amen......

I think the boys were being quite clever and described the apparel of The Soul Beach guards.  I think it backfired on them.  Didn't Mickey have on a black coat that night??

Dayhiker ... I have only located one quote of Hans Mos that references ... the Father.  I must have missing something.

I cannot imagine any "new" wiretap and textmessage evidence that would not implicate Paulus along with Joran, Deepak and Satish.  I cannot imagine any "re-examination" of existing evidence which would not implicate Paulus along with Joran, Deepak and Satish.  Yet ... Paulus was not detained along with the other three.

I have read over many of Hanns Mos statements to the media as well as his words in the Greta interview.  In my opinion ... there is a deafening silence by Hans Mos in regards to Paulus ... there is an appearance that Paulus is off topic.

Janet

++++++++++++++++++++

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313168,00.html
Hans Mos
On the Record w/ Greta

And what we think is very important, at least the Dutch suspect, instead of the two Surinams, and his father, who was one way or another involved in this case, has said in interviews that they are willing to talk. They are willing to disclose what happened in the past at a time set by them. And we think it is very important that this is the time to disclose this information to the public and to us because their point of view is, their son or this suspect, this Dutch suspect, didn't do anything, but he has information and he doesn't give it. We think that's unthinkable.


http://www.wtop.com/?sid=1296839&nid=105
Associated Press
November 24, 2007

Investigators are focusing in part on cell phone calls and text messages between the suspects, prosecutor Dop Kruimel told The Associated Press.

"It's part of the investigation," she said, declining to give further details. "We do everything we can to see what happened."

Van der Sloot will appear before a judge on Monday, Aruba's chief prosecutor Hans Mos told the AP.


http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/30/aruba.holloway/index.html
Hans Mos
CNN
November 30, 2007

Mos has told CNN he believes authorities have enough evidence to prove Holloway is dead, even if her body is never found. He has suggested her death was an accident.

The new evidence against the three men was gathered from advanced techniques used to re-examine existing information, including cell phone records and text messages exchanged the night Holloway disappeared, Mos has said.

Thanks...much appreciated

Someone  emailed this  to me it's from Robin Holloway
I think she talking about Mark in aruba not Mark F
If you already have it you can delete it TY

Dave is currently on his way home to Meridian. Beth is on her way back also. They met with the KLPD and OM yesterday. I guess there is a miscommunication between interrogation and questioning. They had a lot of questions for Dave and Beth in efforts to help Natalee’s case and dispel a lot of nasty rumours. Also, Dave and Beth had a lot of questions for them too in regards to Natalee’s case. The meeting went well and they are working hard, but we don’t know what will happen next and pray this water search will turn up something. As far as Julia, we have stayed in contact with her and she truly does care for Natalee and wants to know what happened to her as much as anyone else. Dave was able to meet with Mark for a little while last night while he was there and had a nice visit. It is good to know they are still there and willing to help. Please know they are still there too for Natalee.

For now, waiting on Dave to get home and will watch the news or wait on that phone call to see what will happen next. It’s been a long two and a half years and never dreamed this much time would go by with no answers. Thanks to all of you for your continued support and for hanging in there with us. Thank you Debbie for coming to Meridian to hang out with the girls, Matt and me. I was a nervous wreck and glad you were able to make time for us this weekend. Brooke just got in from a playdate and was upset she didn’t get to say goodbye Sad I don’t think she realized you would be gone before she got home.

The boat should be in Aruba depending on the weather between Thurs and Saturday. Will keep you updated.

I believe Paulus has MUCH involvement.  I can't get that picture of him at the casino talking to Natalee out of my mind.  Maybe Paulus was the one who had so much interest in Natalee at first.  Joran is very protective about his father.  Maybe Paulus was more involved in the beginning and that is why he was willing to help 2K so much (meeting, planning, attorneys, etc.).  It think they did go to Joran's house BUT that they DID go inside. 

Oh Anna...they already think that. They think this ship is carrying Natalee out to sea to be planted...didn't you know?  :roll:

Yes 2NJ - I have heard Dr Baden make this statement more than once on FOX.

So true Kat_Gram.
BTW it is nice to see you posting also.

I know that anyone in Beth's family would agree to be interrogated for an eternity if it would help Mos do his job. IF THERE IS ANY INFORMATION THE FAMILY COULD POSSIBLY POSSESS THAT WOULD MOVE THIS CASE FORWARD I AM SURE THEY PRAY THAT MOS IS INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO ASK THEM THE CORRECT QUESTION THAT WILL GENERATE THE NEEDED ANSWER. NOTHING WOULD BE OFF LIMITS.

However, I still think Mos is on track by prosecuting the brothers as that process is the most probable course to extracting the truth about what happened to Natalee. Three years to the brothers is a life time, and anything they can do to mitigate the time they have to serve they will do. Maybe Aruba doesn't have "plea bargaining" as we do, but I guarantee that cooperation with the authorities results in lighter sentences. I hope everyone will support Mos efforts, keep him politically strong and personally interested, and keep our expectations of him high so that Natalee's friends can only a part of the solution and not an excuse for the failure. People are people the world over and people are motivated by public support and the expectations people have of them, so lets give Mos all of that we have got. He has expressed his interest, demonstrated his passion, and is all we have as of now.

Well, at least I have 3 cents left after spewing my 2 cents worth.

PS My real reason for hope is that RU and those misfits still are not celebrating as one would think.

The only thing ... the security guards were not working on the evening/ morning when Natalee Holloway went missing.

Janet

+++++++++++++++++++++++

Chris LeJuez - Abraham Jones' Attorney
NANCY GRACE
June 9, 2005

LEJUEZ: My client`s alibi he is that went to a soul music festival at another beach far away from the Holiday Inn hotel. He was there with his wife, with his friend, and he saw many friends there. They were together when he went home, and they spent the night together at home. The next morning, he woke up and went to work at around 7:00 o`clock in the morning, a very believable and confirmed alibi.


Noraina Pietersz - Mickey John's Attorney
NANCY GRACE
June 9, 2005

PIETERSZ: Well, he has an alibi, but the problem is, he has nobody to verify it because his mother was at home. She was sleeping. And like she said, he`s a grown-up man. She doesn`t really control and check on the time he gets home. So he doesn`t have somebody that can say, Oh, yes, he was home at such time. That`s the only thing. But the fact is that he was not at the Holiday Inn. He was never seen at that time during the disappearance at the Holiday Inn. He was not working. He didn`t have a uniform, so it could never be him, the man that these two now suspects are talking about.

Sorry but I call BS on the red highlighted above.  I think it's a huge problem to trust Julia Renfro or Mark Purcell.  I doubt Beth does.

I just can't believe that Robin would think Julia Renfro was on the family's side.  How Sad

I think the boys were trying to implicate the Soul Beach guards (who by then would have left the island....with Natalee).  It was the ALE that went with the others.  I don't know why.  I know they weren't working.

Look at the way those two have trashed not only Natalee but so many of us as well.  I guess our support is very cheap.

Could someone please explain what Hans Mos is talking about in that one quote where he references Paulus ... the Father.  I find his words so confusing.

Thanks.

Janet

I think the truth be known Anita and Paulus called Natalee racist and that was planted by the "Yenta," Rosemary Arnold.  Make no mistake there is a method to the outrage of the obstreperous Taco.

There are none so blind as those that will not see.

There was no confusion.  This is what Julia Renfro posted at RU.  Her intent was clear.

Glenda  PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:06 pm         

Beth spends 6 hours with OM
Word on the street, she was being questioned for six hours. Dave and JQK also there.

I cannot read what Robin writes, because it makes me feel like I am in the twilight zone.

Robin is not a smart lady....obviously easily taken in..she has proved this time after time....perhaps we should send her all the nasty statements and utterances she has made against and about Natalee...forget the nastiness that comes out of her much used mouth about Beth :roll:

Julia Renho is no friend of Natalee or Beth's family, period, imo.

 :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

I forgot to add the "rolling eyes."

Agreed!

Totally confusing.  Yes, I hear that music playing now.  Maybe we should all be over at RU bashing Natalee and calling Beth a liar?  I just do not understand at all.  Not at all.

the major problem with jvds statements is that you can never believe any of them.  whether you want to believe what he says or not.  he even lies when the truth would do him better.
dennisintn

 :lol:

Of course, it's part of the big FBI plot they eluded to in Geezix' article. And the Dutch are in on it to, and Hitler's relatives, the slave owners, the insurance companies, and the little green men. :D :D :D

 :lol: :lol:

Actually, Nutz, no, I don't read there very often at all.  Makes me ill.  But it is predictible.

They need a credible witness and a good video camera.

Listen up, Monkeys.  Make sure you have your decoder rings and tin foil beanies ready before the ship arrives on Aruba.

LOL...thank goodness I knew what this meant and didn't have to pull up the dictionary.....  :lol:

no eggnog....coconut rum and coffee.... :lol:

 :shock: :shock: :shock: :gaah:

Hasn't Robin any idea what these people have said and done to trash Beth and Natalee?
IMO Robin is a loose cannon that could cause damage to this mission by sharing too much on public boards or with people who have set themselves in a position to use any information for the wrong ends and then to discard the source.
Remember the old saying : Loose lips sink ships.

I am going to log out now before I post anything more that may get me banned   :roll:

Well, if the shoe fits, I think he should wear this name! :lol: :lol: :lol:

well there went my coffee and coconut rum all over my computer screen!  LOL

delusional comes to mind as I read what Robin is perhaps parroting.  :shock:

Only with the help of Jug the Gunrunner was she able to escape their clutches, Hiker.

LOL...well he is a perfect visual definition for sure!!!

?? who is Mark? Are she talking about fat Bastard??!! :shock:
Does anyone know what she meant by miscommunications between interrogations and questioning?
Was Dave and Beth questioned??!! Is that your understanding too? About what???!!!!!! Whether Beth is related to Hitler?
OK...this is making me angry!!!

I am with Tibro.  I think I had better take a little break before I become obstreperous and post something that might get me banned.

BBL

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

on the illegal Med Jet he had waiting!!!  :roll:

Yes, LD, she are talking about fat bastard.

Care to join me and Tibro in taking a break before getting banned?

me too!!! Switching to good old football and laundry!!!

That's just flippin' unbelievable....

I am joinin' ya girlfriends!!!

Well, I believe it alright.  But geeeeeesh...

I doubt you could say anything about Renfro or Purcell that would make me ban you  :wink:

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer? :wink:

As I earlier posted, my impression of Beth is she would welcomed being questioned, interrogated, etc if it helps Mos with his case, so I wouldn't sweat the dumb posts of RU. Anything he needs to know I hope he has the sense to ask, because Beth's family wants him to have any information they have. Beth has nothing to fear from the truth. Hell, I imagine Beth and her whole family tree would should up for questioning if it would help. Some of her family wouild also love to even be held in the same jail that Joran is currently being held and would pay to be Joran's cell mate:) Big dollars:))))))))

You know for supposedly well-educated people, those including Tacopino, Rosemary Arnold, Paulus vanderSloot and Anita, they would know that Hitler who disappeared or died at a fairly advanced age, was already out of the news when Beth was born and moreover, the Civil War and plantations were gone 140 years before this event occurred.  It just makes them look and sound so third-world.  It almost makes me feel sorry for people like Julia Renfro who has no ability to work other than spread the message of these obviously ignorant people.  You know she must hate having to do it even though it pays well, but it is an embarrassment to see them all claiming to be so intelligent and yet espousing ignorant comments like these.  Perhaps they do it just to play to the Refugees, many of whom appear to hail from Gardendale and have gotten hairdresser jobs in Mountain Brook.

Could that be possible???

Exactly, what Mark knows, Julia knows.

Robin ... if you are reading ... I am just trying to comprehend your unwavering loyalty to Julia Renfro and Mark Purcell ... especially  when you stop and consider their dispictable, disrespectful words that continually undermine Beth Holloway's every word and action ... the mother of your precious stepdaughter.  Robin ... in my opinion ... your ongoing words supporting Julia and Mark ... are outright betrayals to both Beth and Natalee.

Janet

++++++++++++++++++++   

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2403.msg309813;topicseen#msg309813

Angiex911dsptchr
Scared Monkey
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29/2007
« Reply #975 on: November 30, 2007, 07:08:30 PM »

Renho is a XXXXXXX.  I saw a post of hers on RU earlier todday, about the Earthquake that hit the carribean..she said Maybe it was Beth landing.


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003741183_aruba09.html

As missing-teen case cools, Aruba turns against family
By Carol J. Williams
Los Angeles Times
June 9, 2007

American Julia Renfro, editor-in-chief of Aruba Today, initially sided with Holloway's parents when they sought publicity and lambasted Aruban police for following Dutch investigative procedures different from those in the United States.

Galvanized by compassion for a desperate mother, Renfro stopped the presses of her daily newspaper for the first time in its history to include a picture of Holloway to aid Arubans in the islandwide search.

Renfro, a mother of four, spent weeks shuttling the family from the scene of one rumored development to another, but she became disenchanted with what she saw as Twitty's pandering to tabloid TV and "flat-out lies" she told on the air.

"I feel guilty saying any negative thing about a mother who has lost her daughter," Renfro said. "But her behavior was odd from the get-go."

Renfro has concluded that the body would have turned up by now if she died on the island proper. She -- and many Arubans -- doubts the three suspects, all good students without criminal records, could have pulled off a perfect crime, never caving in to intense interrogations.

"I've spoken with all of the suspects," she said. "I don't believe any of them did anything to her."

Heavily intoxicated, according to accounts given by her classmates to the FBI, Holloway could have staggered into the sea and drowned after the local men left her, Renfro speculated.

Holloway might have died of alcohol poisoning or a drug overdose and washed out to sea, as Deputy Police Chief Gerold Dompig surmised. She might have climbed aboard one of dozens of catamarans and cabin cruisers for late-night partying after a nearby concert.

Renfro says she was perplexed when Twitty immediately concluded that her daughter had been kidnapped and made no effort to check hospitals or police about accident victims. Within hours, Twitty had concluded van der Sloot was responsible, and within a couple of days she was telling TV interviewers that she knew her daughter had been gang-raped and murdered.

LOL...I sincerely don't believe you, or anyone, could say anything about renHO that would get you banned...... :lol:   

i could truthfully say things about renfroe and purcell that would get me banned from the entire damned internet.  
dennisintn

JANET, STANDING OVATION!!!! :smt052 :smt052 :smt052

see I was right!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't think that's the case with Robin and Dave.  I can only guess that Robin and Dave MUST be very naive.

Nut...robin is not that smart....sad, but true.

Standing up and appauding for Janet.  Well said!

Janet...this is one of the best posts I have evr seem...by anyone...thank you!


Robin ... if you are reading ... I am just trying to comprehend your unwavering loyalty to Julia Renfro and Mark Purcell ... especially  when you stop and consider their dispictable, disrespectful words that continually undermine Beth Holloway's every word and action ... the mother of your precious stepdaughter.  Robin ... in my opinion ... your ongoing words supporting Julia and Mark ... are outright betrayals to both Beth and Natalee.

Janet

Robin's loyalty to Mark and Julia has gotten her and Dave exactly nowhere.  There is not one thing that she can say this has gotten her.  The MB kids and her townspeople supported them and then when they got on with their lives, as most people have to do and their kids went on off to college, Beth convinced Dave to go with JQK, which was the best thing they could have done. 

It is totally mindboggling how she goes on about them and her undying loyalty to GaGal who was hell-bent on negotiating any modicum of dignity she may have ever had with the dark side.  This is not a Christian behavior.  The Lord wants us to witness; He does not want us to compromise our own beliefs.  He says we are judged by the fruit we bear .... does that not mean those with whom one associates?

hahahaha...it's probably what many of us have thought...just not said out loud!!

JANET  

:thumright: :smt041 :smt038 :thumright: :bigup: :smt023

Robin ... prior to the summer of 2006 ... you did not adhere to the Aruban agenda of Julia Renfro and Mark Purcell.  What changed??

I sincerely want to understand ... your relationship with these two as well as others with an Aruban agenda ... just does not make sense.

Janet

+++++++++++++++

Robin Holloway
FOX NEWS
August 26, 2005

The brothers were first arrested on June 9 along with Joran van der Sloot (search), 18, who authorities have identified as a suspect in the case though no charges have been filed.

"We haven't been told why, but I think it's obvious," Natalee's stepmother, Robin Holloway, said by phone from Meridian, Miss.  We've known all along they all had something to do with Natalee's disappearance."


Robin Holloway
CBS NEWS
June 17, 2005

"I don't think they're going to find Natalee until these [first] three guys talk," said Robin Holloway.  They know they were the last ones to see her. And I firmly believe in my heart they know where Natalee is and just please tell us.  They hold the answer."


Robin Holloway
MSNBC - MORNING JOE
March 24, 2006

ROBIN HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY’S STEPMOTHER: I’m confused. When Dave got on the island, from day one, Dennis Jacobs said, “Oh, she ran off with somebody to go find a beer. She’ll show up.”  And then a couple of months later, Dompig said, “They’re all three guilty as hell. We’re going to prove it. We’re going to close this case.”

And now, blaming the victim, yes.  It sounds like they’re trying to say, “Well, she had too much booze, too much drug use, and, as a result, she caused her own death.”


Robin Holloway
'Scarborough Country'
March 24, 2006

HOLLOWAY:  ... If she was drugged, it was because of the last drink Joran gave her, either compliments of Joran or the bartender.
 

FYI:

The info that was taken down on the http://nholloway.blogspot.com/ blog was done by them as just a way of being cautious about information.

From what I have heard it will be back and they will continue to put more info out there.

Its simply a logistic matter. Nothing bad happened.

What's up with attacking the Holloway family?

This isn't about them or their credibility.

You guys are nuts. I'm out of here.

Thanks, Red.

Good to know.  Yes, caution is certainly in order.

 :lol: :lol: :smt120

 :lol: :lol: You guys are on a roll...

Well, if this is not about the Holloway family and their missing loved one, please explain to me what it is about.  I am having another twilight zone moment.

i dont know what to say about what robin said


i find it incredulous

my head is spinning in circles

something aint right there

We are not attacking the Holloways, we are QUESTIONING why on earth Robin and Dave believe that Julia Renfro and Mark Purcell are worthy of trust after how badly they have spoken about both Natalee and Beth.