Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/Scared%20Monkeys/NataleeFirstPage.gif)

Now.

 :cool:

Thank you everyone for helping me get to page 50 :D

I found a tiny bit more of casino video at abc. It appears that Joran may be communicating with the man sitting next to Natalee and the girl next to him points to him afterwards. Then Joran turns and talks to her. Also I believe this confirms what we all thought and that is not Guido. No question once again in this short clip they are hiding the identity of that man next to Natalee. Many of the stills his eyes and other features are blacked out.

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3922731&affil=wlne

(http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/279/casino1cn5.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/1246/casino2lj6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
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(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/5595/casino4dy7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

******* in that picture you can really tell it is Paulus.

Nice clear shots ******* - thanks

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2007/12/suspects_release_no_surprise_t.html

++++++++++

Suspect's release no surprise to Natalee Holloway's parents, lawyer says
Posted by MIKE CASON December 08, 2007 7:36 AM

The parents of Natalee Holloway were not surprised Friday at the release of Joran van der Sloot by Aruban authorities because their attorney had warned them not to believe there was new evidence in her disappearance, the attorney said.

Attorney John Q. Kelly of New York said he expects an announcement later this month that there will be no prosecution of van der Sloot or the other two suspects, Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, who were released Dec. 1. Kelly represents Beth Holloway and Dave Holloway.

"The report of significant new incriminating evidence was misleading," Kelly said. "It was the same evidence or lack of evidence they had from the very beginning."

Kelly said his clients would not comment on van der Sloot's release. Telephone messages left Friday with the Holloways were not returned.

Authorities re-arrested van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers Nov. 21 after finding what they described as "new incriminating evidence" in Natalee Holloway's disappearance.

"It's all a dog and pony show," Kelly said. "I guess they thought it would be good PR to show they were still working on the case. But it amplifies the fact that they mishandled it from the beginning and continue to mishandle it."

Natalee Holloway was last seen May 30, 2005, leaving a bar in Aruba with van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers.

All three men have denied a role in the Mountain Brook High School graduate's disappearance. Van der Sloot has said he left her alone on a beach that night but does not know what happened to her.

Van der Sloot's attorney, Joe Tacopina, told The Associated Press on Friday, "It's been a long road, and we're very relieved and feel very much vindicated."

No trace of Natalee Holloway has been found despite extensive searches.

Kelly said Dave Holloway hopes a new search off the coast of Aruba will yield answers. A private boat owner is providing divers and equipment to conduct the search in deeper waters than authorities previously searched.

"It might yield some additional information," Kelly said. "It might at least give them some closure if they're able to bring Natalee's body home."

Kelly said the search boat has been delayed by bad weather but is expected to arrive in Aruba by Wednesday.

Kelly said it is likely that Friday's release of van der Sloot ends chances for a criminal prosecution.

"I'm sure by the end of the year the prosecutor will announce he's decided not to try the suspects on the evidence he has," Kelly said. "Since clearly they don't have enough to hold them, they don't have enough to prosecute them."

The Associated Press contributed to this report. mcason@bhamnews.com

Slumps his shoulders the same exact way.  Habits die hard.

thats him

Wow, *******, those shots are so clear.  It's clearly Paulus.

Quote from: KarmaRoundUp on Today at 06:11:40 PM
Art Wood
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 1, 2005

ART WOOD, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Absolutely. Absolutely. There's a lot that Americans can do through the State Department. I want to remind everybody that Natalee Holloway was a U.S. citizen. Once the Aruban authorities are done investigating this case, the FBI can still conduct an investigation.

I would like to know,once and for all,IF this is true.
Hi Monkeys

Klaas:
I would like to know too.  I'm affraid if we ask 3 different people we'll get 3 different answers.
 :gaah:
Got stuck on the last thread.I hear you Klaas.
 :smt102

So does everyone think that is Paulus next to Natalee at the casino? Have her friends been asked if that was him? Has he ever been asked if that was him?

I have to agree!! Nice find...I was never certain before, but just looky at this. Nice find *******, nice!

What if Guido was the dealer at the next table.

waterboard
dennisintn

I've checked Klaas, and responded! I think I did it, I've been in there a lot today!  :2doh: :2doh:

Jesus Christ, this is amazing.

I don't know if her friends have been asked.  I certainly wouldn't believe HIM if he were asked. 

  That has always been my question PI.  It sure looks like him to me, but could be confirmed by Natalee's friends, they were there, they saw and obviously talked to him.  Especially, due to the fact he has always denied it was him, a confirmation from them would seal it, and give more suspicion to Paulus being involved.

Add this to the caption:

Superior Court
January, 2007

The possible involvement of Paulus with that could then be deducted from the file with the official reports of witnesses, amongst which two people suggested a contact existed between Paulus and Natalee Holloway the night of her disappearance, and a taped report (that was given by the Prosecutor in her final note 1 to the Court). The taped information and his declaration that he picked up Joran and Natalee by the McDonalds Palm Beach and brought them to the Holiday Inn, are clearly understood by the Dept. of Justice, and could in the judgement of this Superior Court, be considered as an indication of the involvement of Paulus in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.”

Natalee looks happy as can be as her friend leans over to talk to her.

(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/725/casino5zw7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Art Wood
DANA PRETZER
July 2, 2006 - Part 1
July 8, 2006 - Part 2

http://sundaynightsatellite.libsyn.com/index.php?post_year=2006&post_month=07

Art:

The family of Natalee needs to put pressure on the US attorney in Birmingham to push the FBI to conduct an investigation after ALE close the case. We have a treaty that allows the FBI to pursue a violation of civil rights of an american citizen there.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/CasinoPVDS.jpg)

White shirt/tan pants

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/pvdscar1.jpg)

White shirt/white pants

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/pvds8.jpg)

Klaas ... the dates in my post should be 2006.  Would you please do your thing.

I apologize.

Thank you.

Janet

Klaas, it looks like he is even wearing his glasses.

mmmmmm........I was just thinking that...can we get som shoulder shots?? I will see what I have.

I'm BACK! and I'm PRO!  :lol: Thanks, Klaas! I did it!

Yep.  I think he's wearing the white shirt/white pants, what do you think?

Yippee!  Thanks CBB, now you won't have that problem again!

In these pictures, look at Paulus' posture - slight tilt of chair toward Natalee and his arm is in a position that it would be easy for him to turn more easily toward Natalee than to face forward (face forward, most likely would have the arm toward the table more and elbow down toward his lap)

I see the glasses in the clearer shots too!

Frank ... I do believe that the "taped" report that the Superior Court referred to was the casino video recording that appears to be Natalee and Paulus in conversation at the Black Jack table.  I suspect that the casino tape as well Paulus' own declaration in front of witnesses on the morning of May 31, 2005 which implied that he picked up Joran and Natalee at McDonalds on the morning Natalee went missing ... are the reasons that the awarded compensation by a previous judge/court was reversed and ... Paulus' detention was deemed justified.

Janet

Yes I think it is PVDS also. Body posture,Clothes and a uncanny resemblance especially his hair. Every frame I looked at where he was in plain view someone doctored his face. I find that very suspicious. Just like the other few seconds of video in the casino the man goes to town on his drink. Seems like it was strong by the way he puts his head down afterwards after the long drink.

It looks like he is wearing the lite tan pans.

Klaas

Thank you and ... have fun at the birthday party.

Janet

But despite all of the obvious circumstantial evidence, implied involvement, apparent and admitted lying by those with implied involvement, interrupted meltdowns where witnesses, US and Aruban have confirmed that Joran said something went wrong and she was buried by one of the brothers, the taped conversation of the boys in the police vehicle corroborating to a degree their involvement, there is nothing that constitutes evidence of a specific crime? And as Dompiq said, and being one who witnessed the meltdown, it is obvious to all that the boys are guilty as hell, we just don't know what specific crime and thus cannot prosecute them for anything.

Maybe Clinton isn't everyones favorite, and that is understandable, and I am sure there are other people just as educated, knowledgeable of law, world politics, international laws, and the tools available to affect justice in a case like this, it seems to me that unless someone like him adopts this cause, legal recourse against the boys is doubtful. I am not sure where I am going with this, but I think Beth and or her friends from Birmingham, should reach out to him, regardless of politics, for may a private consultation. Not because of his politics, but because of the knowledge he learned thru his experience in the White House, his total grasp of how the world functions and the brilliance with which God blessed him. Bush has done a lot of good, and is the kind of guy who would help if he could, and he is certainly brilliant in his on right, but it is a different kind of brilliance from Clinton. Of course, the elder Bush might have that kind of understanding due to his education and years of experience prior to and in the White House.

All I know is Beth needs someone with a vast understanding to help. Any other suggestions, names?

San actually fixed your typo before I could get to it, LOL.  Thanks, I will!  My mother inlaws birthday  :D

Paulus is a drunk and I will guarantee he was drunk that night.

Karma ... I have save a copy of the treaty and related provision reference somewhere in a file on my disorganized desktop files.   :)

I am off now but ... will attempt to find it tomorrow afternoon and ... post accordingly

Have nice evening Monkeys.

Janet

4:20 PM

THANKS SAN!!

Now if you mods would only give me the option to edit my posts ...    :roll:

Janet

I don't have the power to give you those options.

I have only briefly met some of Beth's and or Jugs friends in Birmingham, and they come across as unpretentious, ordinary, down to earth, friendly, and extremely like able people, some or the group as a whole seem to have connections, obviously. Probably republican though huh:)

Who are the "powers that be" who are in control.   :lol:

Gotta go!

Good Bye.

Janet

The man who looks like or  is Paulus appears also to have a CAMERA in front of him.

 :shock:

(http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/8895/capta87b92480ed84807b7dgx3.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Paulus van der Sloot, forensic scientist Michael Archer, Anita van der Sloot and attorney Joseph Tacopina are seen early Friday, Dec. 7, 2007, before the release of Joran van der Sloot, in Oranjestad, Aruba. A judge in Aruba ordered the release Friday of the last of three suspects re-arrested last month in the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway, ruling the evidence was not strong enough to continue holding him.
---------------------------------
(http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/4848/capt6aa55ae3cc974d8bb45jf5.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Anita van der Sloot, left, reacts as her attorney Rosemarie Arnold givers her the news of the release of her son Joran van der Sloot, Friday, Dec. 7, 2007, in Oranjestad, Aruba. A judge in Aruba ordered the release Friday of the last of three suspects re-arrested last month in the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway, ruling the evidence was not strong enough to continue holding him

We can only hope that they are!

 :D

If I recall...Bill Clinton has already shown interest in the case.
An FBI agent that was on Aruba talked to Clinton about seeing
a Green Bay Packers poster in Joran's room and Clinton talked
to Bret Favre about meeting with Joran to try to get him to confess.

Beth has turned to Condaleeza Rice and Jug said that Bush was
his man so possibably that side would be a better bet.

Private eye - No idea about suggestions names. What kind of things must this person have?

Hi Everyone,  The one hope I have now after the disappointment of Joran being released is that hopefully they will now find Natalee.  The ship should be in place, right?  Has there been any word about what is happening with the search?  Thanks  ;}

ACKKKKKKKKKKKKKK IS PAULUS's FLY UNZIPPED!! :shock:

Well, BLAH can edit MY posts!!!  How does that work?  Must be one of those Teacher's Pet situations, huh?

and what do you think a forensic scientist would be advising them on?  possible evidence that could be found on a body after being in the ocean for 3l mos? 
dennisintn

Where's Robots?   Joe T. has man boobs!

Why does he have a forensic scientist??

Scandi, the ship is experiencing weather delay...stuck in 14-18 foot seas.
They do not expect to arrive until Wednesday.

IT IS!!!!  In that top photo, Paulus' fly is unzipped!  GROOOSSS!

Camera's not allowed in Casino's in US by customers...probably ok in Aruba though. :roll:

That was my question.  Very telling.

Well, he sure has one in that photo.  And we have long been looking for that photo connection.  There's one.

.

That could be a camera..I can't tell for sure though  :-|

It's a silver box with a hole in the front.  Only thing I can think of that fits that description is a camera.  Maybe Paulus is the photog instead of Freddie.

Your own father!

Just a thought.

.

More than likely to discredit any evidence found. BUT....what bugs me is that I googled this man and the only thing I can find is a NEW WIKI posing of him and just stuff recently re: Natalee/Sloots. I just started looking....but it is weird he isn't in google other than that.

I am middle age, so I have gotten to watch a lot of Presidents give speeches on foreign relations, treaties, etc. and I always got the impression that they had aides and speech writers advise them and write their speeches. With Clinton, and the elder Bush, I always felt like they personally had a complete and full understanding of the complete world:) Bush from his education and many many years of public service from the CIA to his work in China, VP and President, and Clinton, mostly from his thirst for knowledge and gift from God, though 2 terms in the white house helped as did his other positions. That is why I think the 2 of them became such close friends the last few years. Nothing at all against the other Pres as Reagan and Kennedy were 2 of my all time favorites as well.

Probably a waste of time to even think about it, and I repeat, I have nothing against the present Bush, I think we all owe him a thanks for despite possibly being wrong at different stages of the Iraq war, having the courage, brilliance, and persistence to correct the situation which he seems to be doing with the latest buildup. That took a strong man interested not in himself, but in bettering the world.

Paul has never been asked, in any public interview, to confirm or deny his presence in the casino beside Natalee.  The video was first viewed as part of the ABC/Chris Cuomo interview with Joran in February 2006.  Cuomo didn't mention that the man was Paul; that was discovered by posters in this forum (myself included).  The man has the same height, weight, posture, clothing, glasses, hairline and gold watch as Paul.  Klaas did many photo comparisons that proved the man was Paul.  Of course, Joran says that his father left the casino prior to his interaction with Natalee and her friends, but his dubious timeline is untruthful.  This is one of the best pieces of evidence to prove that Joran has lied in his police statements and to Greta's face but when has the truth been important in this case?
Why was Joran lying about an interaction between Natalee and his father (when both VDS men admit Paul was at the casino that evening) prior to the last public appearance of Natalee at C&C's?  It seems innocent enough so why not own up to it?  The silence on Paul's part is extremely suspicious. 
 

There is someone who can figure this thing out, and I am praying that whoever he is, somehow, Beth meets him. And no knock against JQK, at all, he is Beth's rock.

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/252/story/194833.html

Photo by Michael Archer

I think I may better sign off. Getting a visual of Natalee being sexually assualted by Paulus is enough to cause me to ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, even though I believe it is a real possibility

I can't tell if it is a camera either...I think I am going to puke

Was that the Captain of the high tech ship who posted last night?

That is Paulus in the casino with Natalee...want to know how I know?

IF IT WASN'T PAULUS WE WOULD ALREADY KNOW WHO IT IS!

 Joe T. would have pulled that guy out of whatever cave he has been hiding in and pranced him out in front of the cameras just to prove that Paulus had nothing to do with this. Attorneys will leak any info that is beneficial to their clients. Proving that is not Paulus would be a big, big positive for the Sloots.  IT IS PAULUS!!!!  If it isn't then someone needs to prove it to me....I am waiting.

Taking pictures of the MB girls so they can pick out one that they like? No idea why PVDS would have a camera in the casino or why he would be using a camera at all that night.

It seems to me like Joran was communicating with the guy. Then the girl points at the  man and Joran quickly turns his attention to her.(Jorans Body Language) Like why are you pointing and drawing attention to him? Sure would be nice to see the entire footage.
(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8677/casino3op4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/6048/casino6qx7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Maybe he's in "computer forensics"  :roll:

I was teasing about not being able to deal with Paulus involvement, sort of. I have always thought he had some undefined inappropriate relationship with Joran involving sex, women, possibly others, drinking, that started out probably as a father wanting to be friends with his kid, then digressing slowly, and culminating in this incident. His behavior with Beth was inappropriate if he was lying for his son. It wouldn't be that terrifying for a Father to lie to protect his son, most fathers could do that without feeling overwhelmed with guilt and stress. It is different to cover up your own wrong deeds, and guilt is a more appropriate reaction.

I may be way off here...but I think that is a pack of cigarettes in front of Paulus. IIRC in the video...the complete one that we saw in the news story, he lights one up.  Of course, I could be wrong.

Those four in the photo look like the Weight Watcher's "BEFORE" photo.  Never knew Joe T was so pudgy.  Even Anita has been porking up.  Koen is not the only one to have packed on the poundage.

Don't think too much of Anita's orange hair, either.

.

On second thought, I think he reaches into his pocket to get the cigs. So I guess, it is a camera.  I would have to see that video again to be sure.  Do we have the entire ABC version anywhere?

It may not be a camera, I could be wrong.  But it looks like a camera to the right of the cigarettes and like it has a thick black camera strap attached to it.

If not a camera, I wonder what it could be.  Wish Klaas would get back as she is very good at this kind of thing.

.

Interesting picture.  It looks like Paul forgot to zip his pants, and Taco has man boobs. 

Michael Archer is the lead forensic scientist on the Joran van der Sloot defense team. In December 2007 Archer travelled to Aruba with van der Sloot's American defense attornies Joseph Tacopina & Rosemarie Arnold. In the weeks leading up to this trip Arubian prosecutor Hans Mos led Joran's defense team to believe there was "incriminating new evidence" against Joran. This was found to be untrue. While in Aruba, Archer examined the points of interest in the case and was set to meet with the Arubian authorities shortly before Joran was released from the KIA detention center. Archer said, "It was obvious that there was no new evidence. In fact, there is no evidence that Natalie died as a result of a criminal act. There is no crime scene, there is no DNA or forensic evidence, there are no confessions and there is no body. In the time Joran was with Natalie it would be impossible for him to have killed her and disposed of her without leaving a trace. I am certain Joran did not kill Natalie Holloway."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Archer

Is Paulus a smoker?

Nice picture of Paul with his fly down and sweat covering the upper right side of his shirt.  Is that his wedding ring on his right hand?
Anita must have asked for the Harpo Marx look at the beauty salon. Ugh.
 

whoops, guess you had already noticed the fly and man boobs. I should have read further before posting.  What a gross looking group though.

I have always thought that Paulus was more directly involved..... More than just with the with cover-up and aftermath of Joran's actions. And I have always believed that Natalee was taken to the VDS home first.
That statement...."Your own father"  is very telling, along with Joran's contention that nothing would have happened if Anita had not been out off the island. I had the feeling he meant that both he and Paulus would have been held in check by Anita's presence.
Doesn't Paulus have a reputation as a ladies man on the island...as sickening and unbelievable as that may sound?

Well she should be very pleased for she sure got it!    :D

Who is paying for Michael Archer???

 :shock:

take a look at the body language in that picture.....

Thanks Magnolia,  I wonder if they are going straight down through all those islands south of Florida?  I'll have to watch the weather tonight.  I just hope they have a specific target area, and I would think they would have to to go to all this work and expense.  Exciting!

what a assbite.... !!!!!  I mean flipping A... I should call myself a forensic scientist by spouting off some stupid BS!  GRRR>... what exactly are his creditials?

Big Bellies-R-Us?

CHECK this out>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Archer
I posted something similar to this earlier...Don't you all find it ODD that that is all it says for this so called Forensic Scientist??? I googled this man and the only thing I found was the NEW WIKI posting of him and just stuff recently re: Natalee/Sloots that is in the news. Show me other stuff this guy has worked on or been involved in...I can't find it. Seems fishy to me.

ACKKKKKK......I have been bitching about that for 3 pages now......arggggggg :gaah:

Probably the same people that payed for the famous PI out of Chicago,Tacopinas Law Firm out of NYC,The Law Firm out of Chicago and every other high dollar american expert representing the Van Der Sloots or Kalpoes.

looks like a preview for the the new TV show "Aruban Fat Club" or "Aruba's Biggest Losers"  :silent:

Can I suggest we change this thread from Natalee to Paulus and focus our attention on him and him alone?

In fact, have we really researched this guy completely? I have to believe there are likely to be some ADULTS who find him a disgrace.

Didn't someone post and article where he was lectured by another lawyer?

Can we get a hold of this lawyer?

Julia probably wrote that wiki article.  I don't believe that guy is forensic anything.  He would have been published somewhere and I can't find a thing.  His comments, if real would have addressed something technical.  He looks like bodyguard/muscle, to me.  Taco doesn't want his new face messed up.  He's afraid in aruba too.

well that too.... but there was something else that stood out to me right away... Look at how they are all standing..


and ANNA and Tyler, Red said he would be sooooo disappointed if the two of you didn't post on the FP about today's article... :wink: :lol:

    Electronic Games Research Guide         Provided by
Dictionaries and Research Guides    
Search:
   
   Michael Archer    
Michael Archer
Michael E. Archer is a forensic scientist from New York City. He is a member of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences. He is the chief forensic examiner at New York Forensics, Inc., in Fishkill, New York. Additionally, he is an Investigator in the Dutchess County Medical Examiner's Office. Archer has taught at Marist College in Poughkeepsie, New York & at Mount Saint Mary's College in Newburgh, New York, worked on high profile cases with Henry C. Lee, Ph.D. & Michael Baden, M.D. and appeared on Court T.V. and has been in the New York Times, The Daily News & The New York Post.

Joran once listed Bill Clinton as his favorite author on his website.  In fact, a lot of the PIMPS listed Clinton as one of their favorite people at one time.

I believe he was lectured by Nico Jorg, in front of the lawyers.

that's the body language I am talking about...

These people have permits to work in Aruba?  :wink:

You're good.  I didn't find anything.

This is a dumb question, but, who has access to what information has been collected specific to Natalee's disappearance, what information has been determined to be admissable in court, and what evidence has actually been submitted to the court? As I understand it, Beth and her attorneys are not allowed to review this material, until Aruba has formally made a decision not to proesecute and cannot prosecute?

Interesting how in this case his findings are completely opposite or what Baden's thoughts are....

Well he certainly couldn't object, and probably would support Clinton's involvement:) I am not talking morals, although Bush a confirmed cocaine user and heavy drinker, Kennedy, a reported injector of speed and womanizer of a scale as to make Clinton a rookie, would all flunk the moral test. I just think him and the elder Bush have a better than normal understanding of things than the average president:) Hey, a Democrat and a Republican I am equal opportunity

o

Karma ... I found it!

Janet

+++++++++++++


“IT AIN’T OVER UNTIL IT IS OVER.”

Art Wood
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 2, 2005

ART WOOD, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Absolutely. Absolutely. There's a lot that Americans can do through the State Department. I want to remind everybody that Natalee Holloway was a U.S. citizen. Once the Aruban authorities are done investigating this case, the FBI can still conduct an investigation, and they could extradite these suspects to the United States. Let me point out that there's a ton of circumstantial evidence in this case to convict these kids.


http://www.internationalextradition.com/netherlands_bi.htm
When the FBI Seeks Extradition
BILATERAL EXTRADITION TREATIES
NETHERLANDS

<snipped>

SCHEDULE OF OFFENSES

1. Murder; assault with intent to commit murder.

2. Manslaughter.

3. Malicious wounding; inflicting grievous bodily harm.

4. Arson.

5. Rape; indecent assault; incest; bigamy.

6. Unlawful sexual acts with or upon children under the age specified by the laws of both the Requesting and Requested States.

7. Wilful abandonment of a minor or other dependent person when the life of that minor or that dependent person is or is likely to be injured or endangered.

8. Kidnapping; abduction; false imprisonment.

9. Robbery; burglary; larceny; embezzlement.

10. Fraud, including obtaining property, money or valuable securities by false pretenses, deceit, falsehood, or other fraudulent means.

11. Bribery, including soliciting, offering [*27] and accepting.

12. Extortion.

13. Receiving, possessing or transporting anything of value knowing it to have been unlawfully obtained.

14. Offenses relating to criminal breach of trust.

15. An offense against the laws relating to counterfeiting and forgery; including the forging of seals, trademarks, documents, or use of such forgeries.

16. An offense against the laws relating to international transfers of funds.

17. An offense against the laws relating to importation, exportation or transit of goods, articles, or merchandise, including violations of the customs laws.

18. Offenses relating to slavery or the illegal transporting of persons.

19. Offenses against the laws relating to bankruptcy.

20. Offenses against the laws relating to prohibition of private monopoly or unfair trade practices.

21. Perjury; subornation of perjury; making a false statement to a government agency or official.

22. Offenses relating to wilful evasion of taxes and duties.

23. Any act or omission intended or likely to: (a) endanger the safety of an aircraft in flight or of any person on board such aircraft; or (b) destroy or render any aircraft incapable of flight.

24. Any unlawful seizure or exercise of control [*28] of an aircraft in flight by force or violence, or by threat of force or violence, or by any other form of intimidation.

25. Any unlawful act or omission intended or that is likely to endanger the safety of any person in a railway train or in any vessel or other means of transportation.

26. Piracy, mutiny, or any mutinous act committed on board a vessel.

27. Malicious damage to property.

28. Offenses against the laws relating to the traffic in, or the possession, production or manufacture of narcotic drugs, cannabis, psychotropic drugs, cocaine and its derivatives, and other dangerous drugs and chemicals.

29. Offenses against laws relating to the poisonous chemicals or substances injurious to health.

30. Offenses against the laws relating to firearms, ammunition, explosives, incendiary devices or nuclear materials.

31. Offenses against the laws relating to the abuse of official authority.

32. Offenses against the laws relating to obstruction of justice.

33. Offenses relating to securities and commodities.

34. Facilitating or permitting the escape of a person from custody.

35. Incitements to violence.

36. Any other act for which extradition may be granted in accordance with the laws [*29] of both Contracting Parties.

_______

me either... :2thinky:

Scandi,

To set the record straight, I am the geophysical engineer on board the Persistence and author of the blog you referenced.  The sea trials of the equipment are described in detail in a post on the blog.  The most direct route is approx 1700 miles, but it is safer to loosely follow the coast.  This makes the trip significantly longer, yet safer.

Looks like a cell phone to me.  Mine looks that way also.

LOL PI ........I am the one who screwed it up, lol...while trying to answer your question about the boat Captain.....

 :lol: :lol:

Was this from Wiki, too??  The only thing in Fishkill NY, I find is an Expert Witness Co.
If he's been quoted in NY Times etc, I would think there'd be a hit.  My son was quoted in a college newspaper and it comes up.   :roll:

I can't help it ! LOL....

Notice he can't even keep his short pants zipped up?  Must be a sign, right?  Trolling for ?

Hey, Paulus has a unique taste in clothes -- anyone notice?  His short sleeved shirts are "elbow length"... Look at other men in the pics and Paulus is the only one who seems to like that.  Very unusual for a guy who sweats so much...

I have long felt that there was a strong possibiity that J2K were on a "fishing" expedition with Paulus.  The casino pics could suggest that perhaps he "chose" nat and then later the boys "picked her Up" -- remember Deepak's tapped statement to Joran in the police car?  "Your own father?"

 :lol: :lol:

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/Harpo.jpg)

It would have been awful if we went all the way to Aruba to find out the side scan sonar and ROV was incapable of the tasks we require.  The sea trials served to both get the gear working on board the Persistence and to prove their adequacy. If you think it would be interesting, I could post a sample of the sea trial data. The side scan sonar data is fantastic.

searching for Michael Archer, forensic science.  Cannot find, CV, published articles or research, past cases.  nada.  I'll keep looking.

Well...RU is giving Beth a rest and are back to blaming the MB kids again  :roll:

Monkey Bunkey @ RU wrote:
I'm still holding fast from day one, one of her "friends" dropped the x in her drink on the last night as a prank or in spite. Nasty gurls vying for that spot on the cheerleader team and all. Then it all went wrong when she never returned and they had to keep it quiet.

Someone in MB knows what they did.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

UGHhhhhhhh
 :roll: Now if they all think that 3 young 'boys' who live on Aruba couldn't get rid of Natalee without a trace...how the hell do they think these girls did...what a bunch of losers. :roll:

It doesn't say for WHAT. Probably as a "perp" in an artcle for organized crime.

PLEASE DO!!

Yes!  Please do!  Where is the ship now?  I read they would be arriving on Wednesday in Aruba. How have they weathered the storms?

Notice from that article this clipped part:

Anita van der Sloot, left, reacts as her attorney Rosemarie Arnold givers her the news of the release of her son Joran van der Sloot, Friday, Dec. 7, 2007

I think it's all fascinating..Even more so because on this expedition you are looking for Natalee. I observed some of the pics and it's amazing how small the crab cage would look. I guess thats where the ROV will come into play and great to hear that it has been working perfect.

In recent years there have been other missing americans who have dissapeared without a trace under suspicious circumstances. They may have been also buried off the coast of Aruba. You search may have others worried in Aruba that are not involved in Natalee's dissapearance.

interesting.....nice catch.

[
35. Incitements to violence.

36. Any other act for which extradition may be granted in accordance with the laws [*29] of both Contracting Parties.

_______
[/quote]

tm, i think that covers every crime possible except for "runs with scissors" and "playing with matches", but i'll bet there's an aruban law to keep the f.b.i. out or to have access to any of the files, even as incomplete as they are.
dennisintn

They meant to say her husbands attorney. :wink:

I don't know exactly where the boat is now.  Yesterday it was waiting on weather.  I'm hoping to fly out on wed or thurs.  I can probably get a couple screen shots of the sea trial data up tomorrow.  I'll post an example from good "industry standard" side scan sonar.. then with this system for comparison.  I mentioned it on the blog... its an EdgeTech 4200-FS if you want to google it.  EdgeTech has some sample images on their site. 

Yes Tacopina and his firm seem to be overseeing the Aruban Defense team..The whole thing stinks and is highly suspicious. PI'S out of Chicago,800 million dollar lawsuit by a firm out of chicago,Forensic Specialist,PI and Mob attorneys out of NYC..It's like a all star class of the full American Mob Defense Team.

San: :lol:

I stole borrowed this:

TOP 20 WAYS TO TELL SOMEONE THEIR FLY IS UNZIPPED:

20) The cucumber has left the salad.
19) I can see the gun of Navarone.
18) Someone tore down the wall, and your Pink Floyd is hanging out.
17) You've got Windows on your laptop.
16) Sailor Ned's trying to take a little shore leave.
15) Your soldier isn't so unknown now.
14) Quasimodo needs to go back in the tower and tend to his bells.
13) You need to bring your tray table to the upright and locked position.
12) Paging Mr. Johnson... Paging Mr. Johnson...
11) Your pod bay door is open, Hal.
10) Elvis Junior has LEFT the building!
9) Mini Me is making a break for the escape pod.
8) Ensign Hanes is reporting a hull breach on the lower deck, Sir!
7) The Buick is not all the way in the garage.
6) Dr. Kimble has escaped!
5) You've got your fly set for "Monica" instead of "Hillary."
4) Our next guest is someone who needs no introduction...
3) You've got a security breach at Los Pantalones.
2) I'm talking about Shaft, can you dig it?

and The Number One Way to Tell Someone Their Fly Is Unzipped..

1) Men are From Mars, I Can See Your Penis.


 

tm, i think that covers every crime possible except for "runs with scissors" and "playing with matches", but i'll bet there's an aruban law to keep the f.b.i. out or to have access to any of the files, even as incomplete as they are.
dennisintn
[/quote]

Yes but it also says that those to be extradited must have been charged and convicted previously.  And it is a voilation of the Dutch Constitution to extradite someone of Dutch nationality.

See:

Article 8 deals with the extradition of nationals. It contains two provisions similar to those included in some of our other recently signed extradition treaties. It grants the Executive Authority the discretionary power to extradite its own nationals. If extradition is denied on the basis of nationality, the requested Party undertakes to submit the case to its competent authorities for the purpose of prosecution, provided that Party has jurisdiction over the offense. This article thus takes into account the law of the Netherlands ordinarily prohibiting the extradition of Dutch nationals but allowing for their prosecution in the Netherlands for offenses committed abroad.  

I was speaking to someone tonight and telling them that a Mob figure is involved in Aruba and they said oh yeah what's his name.  I said Michael Posner without skipping a beat they said well he better stay in Aruba  :lol: 

Joe Tacopina made it a point of saying how he hated the mob and how he would never represent them in his GQ interview.  He is so FOS it is coming out of his ears.  He is your typical Brooklyn Italian who when growing up in a neighborhood that was infested with mob figures.

I found the link for that>>>>
http://www.123exp-fun.com/t/01151501797/

I will not speculate on what we will find offshore Aruba.  Truth be told... noone knows.  That is the nature of ocean exploration.  I am excited by the fact that you will all be able to follow along with us during the search through the blog and the press.   

while this contains some extra info, it came from a lame looking search result.  Related to electronic games?  or something?  http://www.123exp-fun.com/t/01151501797/

I am still looking for court tv. etc.

I can hear Letterman reading this list  :lol:

Yes Tacopina and his firm seem to be overseeing the Aruban Defense team..The whole thing stinks and is highly suspicious. PI'S out of Chicago,800 million dollar lawsuit by a firm out of chicago,Forensic Specialist,PI and Mob attorneys out of NYC..It's like a all star class of the full American Mob Defense Team.
[/quote]

I was speaking to someone tonight and telling them that a Mob figure is involved in Aruba and they said oh yeah what's his name.  I said Michael Posner without skipping a beat they said well he better stay in Aruba  :lol: 

Joe Tacopina made it a point of saying how he hated the mob and how he would never represent them in his GQ interview.  He is so FOS it is coming out of his ears.  He is your typical Brooklyn Italian who when growing up in a neighborhood that was infested with mob figures.
[/quote]

And he no doubt idolized them.

Since Natalee was no longer in high school, I doubt her "cheerleading" position was a basis for MB girls drugging her.  What part of graduation do they not get?  Guess like Satish, these people never graduated from high school?  Do they really think she would be going back on weekends from college or something!

Talk about dumb as a box of rocks!  They can't even make up good lies.

Exactly.

Yes it sounds exciting. If Natalee is ever found this sounds like the best chance. That part of the Caribbean has become known as the Epicenter of cocaine distribution. So no telling what lies on that ocean floor between Aruba,Venezuela and Colombia. I pray Natalee is just a few miles offshore in the first place you guys search.

paulis is a killer

Notice now, as just announced on Fox News, that MOS is saying he will drop the CASE and not just the suspects by the end of the year.

So when did it go from suspects to case?  I noticed that is what a couple of the articles quoted him as saying.  Thought at first it was a misquote but this is about the third source saying that same thing.

Case and not just suspects.  I thought the investigation was going to continue but only those three stooges would not be officially considered as suspects.

Sounds as though he is going to close the entire thing down.

.

Hi Ocenaexploration,

I am so thrilled at the prospect of your search, and so grateful for all the participants.  I'm sure most of us will be following your progress, as it sounds like a fascinating adventure, aside from the fact that we wish you great success in searching for Natalee.  The sample images from the side scan sonar are absolutely amazing!  Is this typical of the clarity you can expect in most searches?

Methinks Mos might be shrewed like a fox... :cool:

REMEMBER :P ??

If Aruba officially "closes" the case then the FBI OFFICIALLY can investigate...

I am thinking perhaps Mos is ready to turn everything over to the FBI under the International treaty...

Now this, to me makes sense...

Before, it was said that Aruba could/would keep the case open even if the boys were released as suspects. thus ensuring the FBI could NEVER get involved...

But Mos just might be doing a great "Statue of Liberty" play here... BRILLIANT!!! (imho)

Anna,

I heard the same report several times today.  That Mos says he may close the case at the end of the year, if he feels that he doesn't have enough evidence to take it to trial.

Anyone hear the actual interview where Mos makes this statement?  or is this a FOX summary?

i'll bet julia can furnish 2 or 3 airport worker "credible witnesses" who saw mb girls hauling a big trunk onto the plane for the trip back to mb. 
dennisintn

Found this from Court TV:

According to police officer Mike Archer, Glenn told him that during a heated argument with Lynn, she admitted "that she didn't love him, and she had never loved him."

"He said he was going to move out and live with his father," Archer told jurors. "He said he didn't trust her anymore. She wasn't the same person that he married."

"The police department is kind of a rumor mill, isn't it?" Berry asked during cross-examination.

Archer conceded that there were rumors floating around about Lynn at the time.

http://www.courttv.com/trials/turner/050304_ctv.html

Everywhere I have seen it quoted it as an AP article.

Me too Helen...I did find a Mike Archer that is >>>Mike Archer, Court TV's executive editor........but geeeze, that can't be him, lol.
Still seems weird to me that this guy doesn't have an internet history that appears REAL!

I am sitting here thinking about that Forensic guy that was with Joe T.  I wonder if Joe is going to say Natalee was never at the Sloots I even took my own forensic team to conduct tests at the Sloot Main House.

You know all this is VERY strange.  On Greta's last week Joe T told her who the judge would be in this case before he even went to Aruba.  The papers would not even report who the judge was, they kept it secret.  How and why did Joe get this information unless someone (the judge maybe) told them ahead of time.  I thought it could have been any judge selected to oversee this. :-|

i like the quote where he can't see enough time for j2k to hide natalee and clean up all the evidence in the timeline.  therefore he concludes that the 3 of them are innocent of anything.  which one of the l0 days they had did they not have time to do all that needed to be done themselves or to find other people to do it?  plus, i know this isn't pc but, who helped him find the exit door on the plane?
dennisintn

He is such a fool.

I would think that the forensic guy is there to dispute anything Mos might have produced in conjunction with what he was touting he had. He clearly said that he could prove Natalee was dead, so maybe Taco thought the arm had been re-examined, or the car seats had been re-tested and blood was found, etc. Wouldn't that have been nice?

OE! Glad you're here! Anything at all you could post for us would be just great and much appreciated!
BTW: You caused me to do some reading last night! You brought to my mind the 10 lepers healed, and only one turned to see the source of the miracle and give praise. "Where are the Nine" was the question.  :wink:

Yes but it also says that those to be extradited must have been charged and convicted previously.  And it is a violation of the Dutch Constitution to extradite someone of Dutch nationality.

See:

Article 8 deals with the extradition of nationals. It contains two provisions similar to those included in some of our other recently signed extradition treaties. It grants the Executive Authority the discretionary power to extradite its own nationals. If extradition is denied on the basis of nationality, the requested Party undertakes to submit the case to its competent authorities for the purpose of prosecution, provided that Party has jurisdiction over the offense. This article thus takes into account the law of the Netherlands ordinarily prohibiting the extradition of Dutch nationals but allowing for their prosecution in the Netherlands for offenses committed abroad.  
[/quote]


The Dutch do not extradite Dutch Nationals.  It is against their Constitution.

Therefore, any Dutch citizen is always going to be going before one of those famous Dutch judges who never met a suspect they didn't like.

Now isn't THAT special!

.

Good sonar imagery depends largely on the sum quality of the sonar, operator, terrain, and the sonar processing. The images you saw are excellent quality with little noise or motion artifacts. In deeper water, say a couple hundred feet, the noise from the sea surface becomes less and less an issue.  The rougher the water, the more motion artifacts and sea surface noise is in the data.  A passing boat makes a mess out of the data, as do schools of fish, or other biology.  Irregular seafloor geology can make things complicated. Say for example you have a rocks outcropping and coral pinnacles.  Seabed features with positive relief will reflect the sound pulse and leave an acoustic shadow behind the feature.  If what you are searching for is in that shadow, it will not be imaged.  Hopefully it will be imaged on a subsequent adjacent pass or from a different direction.  Usually searches are performed in a "mowing the lawn" pattern, with cross lines perpendicular to the main search lines.  Running the search lines with adjacent lines run reciprocal combined with tie-lines gives you horizontal and lateral control of your target position.  Typically you'll have a sonar target imaged on multiple passes where that target is co-aligned between lines after processing. If the target is imaged on multiple passes from different directions and the target doesn't change locations, you've got the correct target location.  Else, its somewhere in the middle.  With swift currents and cable lengths of about 1 mile, good positioning is critical. 

Thats what Rammstein wants you to believe. That it's completely random and unbiased and no one knows which judge it will be. It was the same corrupt Judge as back in 2005 Rick Smid. The whole Mos thing was a complete sham and was in totally inline with this ridiculous outrageous cover up. I seriously doubt he did a complete 180 after seeing how corrupt the defense and the Arubans are..They have had this case since Aug 2006 and had ample opportunity to expose the dirtbags that destroyed evidence,changed statements,intimdated witnesses and killed the investigation. It's quite telling if he closes this case without even going for the lesser charges or letting this all play out in front of a judge. The Van Der Sloots werent worried and even Renho messed up the cover up memo when she reported Joran would be released a day early.

Crazybabyborg...
I was asked last night:
"Do I believe in Miracles and are we expecting one?"
This was my reply:
I say this with absolute conviction... I do not have enough faith to be an atheist in times like this.  It is examples such as these that remind humanity that people still go out of their way for others. About 2000 years ago there was the perfect example of a loving sacrifice.  So do I expect a miracle?  Perhaps a better question is... what are our expectations of that miracle?

My point is WHY did Joe T. have to know this and announce it on T.V.?  Was this judge in someone's pocket from the get-go?  Wonder what kind of cases the judge has done in the past?  Wonder what his track record is?  I said this on BFN one time-Paulus and a couple of the judge's need to be looked into.  Something is fishy big time and Joe T. (MO) is involved in this from day 1.  Is it drugs, cartels, the mob or all the above (I am just thinking out loud and only my opinion on this).

people like the ones in this fiasco..... are not human

patience.... is not easy

soon enough - someone is going to talk because joran or paulus will tick someone off

and more than likely it will be the K2 brothers that talk

hang tight  :cool:

Thank you so much for all you are contributing to the quest for Natalee, but also 'educating' us about your techniques and tools. I googled you too but not to find photos, but discovered while even in college you were involved at Woods Hole, what a fascinating career you have had.

Welcome - we appreciate the opportunity to share this journey with you.

All the above is what runs Aruba. Just seems to me that it is the American Mob that is involved here with connections to Posner. Not sure if that is because who is involved from Aruba or because the victim was American. I can see it both ways who is financing all of this(Posner,Cartel or Aruban Govt). Certainly would be easy for the Aruban Govt to launder up some dirty drug money. One deicent size cocaine bust would cover all of this.

Michael Archer has several documents in the Dutchess County, NY, Document Search at http://www.co.dutchess.ny.us/CountyGov/Departments/CountyClerk/12976.htm .  Most recently, he has been a defendent in a lawsuit brought by the Hudson Valley FCU (Federal Credit Union) for $35,000.  Odd that I can't find him employed by Dutchess County, though, as the wiki article states.  From a researcher's standpoint, wiki is crap, pure crap.

Anna - the Harpo reference made me tear up with laughter, thanks for that one  :lol:

I don't know if Private Eye is reading tonight but Klaas and some others of us had copious discussion regarding the uncanny likeness of Paulus at the gaming table that night next to Natalee. Ultimately we relied heavily close-up's Klaas made of the hairline, the arms, even the watch. Knowing Klaas I am sure she's got those in her photobucket.

Other points to ponder are this, let's suppose for now that Paulus was involved, that perhaps Joran and Daddy-O were misbehaving while mommy harpo was away? It would not be the first time a father/son or even mother/daughter team have preyed upon others for sexual excapades or even debauchery.

The scale of this cover-up is one element I've never been able to satisfy was generated to protect even the dutch son of a judge, it's too large and too wide and too tight to be just for Joran. I've always felt that implied that either larger people in terms of stature were involved and were being protected, or events that transpire on that island that are part of their 'underworld' are what's being protected.

If you do have an underworld, who better than the mob lawyer extraordinaire Joe T to help you cover it up?

Makes sense me, always has.......as Mrs often says water seeks it's own level, indeed the Sloots and Joe T personify that.

If you want to write to Michael Archer, his address is
Archer Michael E Po Box 28 Fishkill Ny

He lives at the Commons At Fishkill Condo Unit 902D.

I can't even find anything about New York Forensics, Inc., in Fishkill, New York., where Michale Archer is the chief forensic examiner.  I'm coming up pretty empty on this.

My opinion--Archer is a local flunkie that Joe Taco picked up to take to Aruba with him to pose as an expert.  None of his credentials check out and his wiki entry is newly made, most likely by the Renho herself.

Is there a way to ask Dr. Baden about him? 

 :smt045 :smt045 :smt045

Boy, do I agree!!  Her ALE buddies are probably impressed as all get out with the guy.

I'm not impressed with his fuzzy credentials, but the recent $35,000 judgement against him in court leads me to believe that he is in dire financial straits and not a successful professional.  Gee, I wonder if Tacky convinced him to go to Aruba and pretend to be a forensic pathologist just for the free trip or if he had to pay him, cash under the table, of course.

I agree with the above....but the question to me is WHY?  Why would the Mob or the Arubian Gov't or a drug cartel care one whit about Joran VanderSloot and his sweaty papa?  That is one piece of the puzzle that I have never found.
I have always thought Posner was in this up to his eyeballs.

Interesting.  In 1999 I see Michael Archer filed a pistol permit application in Fishkill County, NY.  Now why would a forensic pathologist need to carry a pistol?  Hmm...

Correction--Dutchess County, NY, not Fishkill County.  My bad.

Lies when he testifies and people get mad??

Magnolia-

Paulus was special assistant to Rudy Croes prior, his express duty/domain was over contracts. If you're over contracts on this tiny island then every legitimate and also non-legitimate business is in your scope. The word kick-back's might also have some relevance here as well.

night all

Paulus worked on contracts and probably was very tight with the Ministers.  Maybe he has his second set of books locked up or he's in partnership and if he goes down or his kid, the books are open.

Birmingham television just had a report on the Natalee case.
Interview with Joe T....he spewed more of his stuff that his client was
absolutely not guilty.
Then Mos....who said that he wanted the truth to come forward
and he would make every effort to make sure that happened.
He said that the case is not closed.
Then JQK....and this was good...he had a twinkle in his eye.
He said that the investigation was botched from the beginning
and there was corruption from within.

WTF???  I'm gone for a few hours and come back to see this??? I'm still back on page 5..will catch up in a minute. :shock: :shock:  :lol:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/pvdszipper.gif)

Rather than a forensic pathologist, I fear our Michael Archer was a rather unsuccessful undertaker in Beacon, NY.  In 1999, he and the funeral parlor he owned and lived at was sued by two separate parties with resulting judgements of $24,690 and $1650. 

Gee, it must not be too much of a leap from unsuccessful undertaker to forensic pathologist, eh?

About time JQK said corruption.

WHY is right? I wish I had the definite answers. It appears the Dutch aren't doing a damn thing about it either.

Well, Frank suggested that Paulus's background needs digging into and I agree.  I always wondered what the story behind the failed judge in training fiasco was. 

As for Rick Smid, the only thing I can find on him is a recent money laundering case he is presiding over on another island, and his signature on the US Resolution for a Federal Commission on Drug Policy, www.druglibrary.net/resolution/longlist.htm.  You would think in the midst of so much controversy regarding Rick Smid's release of Joran in 2005, they would have sent anyone but him.

You just made my day AZLady.  That is the funniest thing.  Add it to his Wiki article.

Hi OceanExploration,  What a treat to have you here.  Sorry I had to leave for a bit, and now you are offline, but what a nice surprise to meet you here.  I would love to see a sample of the sea trial data. 

I know a little bit about side sonar and how it works.  During the Scott Peterson trial I came to know and correspond with Gene Ralston, that salty 'ole Captain   :D, and I learned quite a bit about the basics through emails.  In fact I was one of the posters {there were actually many of us} who saw what his camera that was attached to the ROV was recording after the SS had spotted what looked like a body in San Francisco Bay on March 14th of 2003.  They had seen her too, Sgt Cloward standing beside him, but the line to the monitor on board the ship had problems, wrong cable.  Even so, there was some footage captured which showed up on Greta's On The Record, live and in living color.  I'll never forget it!  I did do a pencil sketch right away so I wouldn't forget what I saw, and pull it out from time to time for posterity's sake! 

Gene did write and say what I saw was very similar to what they did that day.  He said they saw crabs everywhere on her and so couldn't see clothing, but there were streams of light colored fabric that appeared to be floating above her.  I saw her with lines across, as though she had been wrapped like a mummy.  Turns out what I was seeking was either the crabs or those shredded tatters of her jeans.  It was after her remains washed ashore that he knew it was L

I am so happy you are a part of our group.  Kind of an amazing group of people here, OceanExploration, such a beautifully run sight as well.  Welcome Aboard mate and will  absolutely read everything you give to us.  ;}

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Holloway/Pauluscasino2.jpg)

The thing I am asking if is a camera is at Paulus left elbow, not directly in front of him.  It could be a small video camera even.  Appears to have a wide strap. 

I think it is a prop he used in his ruse along with Joran to play the role of tourist. 

Also recall Anita mentioning her camera at great length.  There is a reason she did that.

Is this her camera and Paulus is using Mommy's camera as a prop to appear to the tourist girls to also be a tourist as we know Joran claimed to be?

Just another of those strange coincidents it is now appearing we will never have answers for.

.

in the picture it looks like paulus is drinking something

i bet he was drunk as hell...

man, dont i hate him

Well, PVDS is at the heart of the matter, IMO. 

yes, a strap of some kind

Paulus - beyond words

Taco - every picture I've ever seen him in he's standing with his legs wide apart and looks like he's getting ready to jump at something - maybe he thinks he looks macho...I think he looks weird.

PUZZLER WROTE:
Paulus - beyond words

Taco - every picture I've ever seen him in he's standing with his legs wide apart and looks like he's getting ready to jump at something - maybe he thinks he looks macho...I think he looks weird.[/b]

Or a Bad case of Jock Itch.

he is so used to JUMPING thru hoops - he cant help it

i agree - he is a NUT CASE- he has to be to be touching these people

i would be looking for an industrial cleaner...after being within 50 feet of them

but i think between paulus grease and JOE T grease they may have come upon a new GREASE for SCUM BAGS

if you ask me, paulus and anita been hitting the booze pretty hard

they look horrible  :cool:

He really is disgusting.

Joe T. looks like he is trying to keep away from Anita.  He has that look on his face like oh god please don't touch me I just took a shower.

Anita is just horrendous.

Robots,

Again, you are my hero as evidently you are the only other one who can see it!

 :smt058

Yes, it has a wide black strap like something that tacky Anita would stick on her camera she was whining about the police taking. 

.

Robots:

In both short clips at the casino I have seen lately he hits his drink hard. He even kinda grimaces(Not the right word)after drinking a big drink in the video and puts his head down like it was strong. Did Paul just learn that he's a failure and will never be a judge? Did he get hammered the night Natalee went missing? I wonder if that person in the video is drinking the same drink that PVDS has here?

(http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3016/pvdskc5.png) (http://imageshack.us)

Robots did you notice Joe T's man boobs?

Paulus and Anita do look like they are drinking....got that bloated look.

Too drunk to zip his pants, evidently, too.

Whatcha wanna bet that Anita and Rosmary's Baby were at the International School gathering documentation that Joran was in attendance the day Natalee went missing? I'm sure Anita had no problem arranging that.

I cant even look at the picture of Paulus anymore he is just repulsive.

OMG

between them there is 3/4 of a ton of BULL CRAP

 :cool:

yep
my goodnesss..........i can tell you that that man in the casino is PAULUS

He is acting as though she smells bad but it could be that hair is scaring him.

.

Anita, but don't make me pull out that see through to the playtex full figure slingshot!

Ya'll have noticed the school in the background of the pic of Anita and Arnold, right?

"We promised the suspects that after Dec. 31, we will not pursue the case," Mos said. "This investigation should end at a certain point."


I still want to know when it went from releasing the suspects to ending the investigation.

.

Which is bigger Anita's belly or her boobs.   Or is it a tie. :lol:

LOL

Not until you mentioned it......does Rosemary have a hand full of money?

:idea:

when MOS was told to SHUT UP

CBB,
I vote for Joe T but Anita's stomach now extends farther than hers which is saying something!  Maybe she's pregnant with another little devil spawn.

Yes, they were at the school probably falsifying records or something equally disgusting.

.

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Not even a photo finish.........Belly. That pic is an advertisement for Sumo Wrestling. They just need thongs and top knots. 
EEEEEEEWWWWWWW

Jamie@BFN posted a video that I havent seen yet after Joran's release and the Kalpoe lawsuit

http://tinyurl.com/2rjfxm

Is that money in Arnolds hand?  Is that the payoff and she is holding on to it until Joran walks out the door? :lol: :lol:

yep, hitting the sauce a little heavy. i predicted this 2 months ago

they know there son drown Natalee and now they are trying to drown themselves


funny how the human mind works

How else are they supposed to secure the story they want if they can't to buy it? Got to have that cash in hand ready to whip out!

Next he will prolly be peeing his pants and passing out on sidewalks like Joran.

.

i saw it immediately  :cool:

im sure he will

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/casino3op4.jpg)

Could be a camera

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/CasinoCamera.jpg)

Similar to this - I know it's not like this one but could be similar

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/camera.jpg)

Hadn't seen it, *******. Thank you for posting the link.

Pretty Much tells it all, doesn't it?

Was Paulus taking pictures of the young American girls for someone?

when you  invert the colors ..it is DEFINATELY a camera  :cool:

Is it Scuba Jap that is the photographer for that paper?
You would think she would have noticed the unzipped
pants before printing that picture to the paper.
I think that picture complete with Klaas's arrow need to go
on the front page.

Could even be a small videocam.IMO

I knew you would!

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Greetings/Prayer%20Thanks%20Compliment/2mper88_th.jpg)

Hi CBB :)

Yes it does. They can close this case but it's far from over.

It must be Anita's camera.  Remember she said they took her camera in the search of the house and she whined about her school projects that were on it.  I bet she didn't know Paulus had the camera with him the night he and Joran met Natalee.  I would guess that this particular casino video and other video from that night showed PVDS with a small silver camera--thus they took Anita's camera in the search. 

Ugh . I didn't thnk it was possible for Anita to look worse.
She has put one some ugly weight. And she's at that age where her age is showing. Nice pants, I used to have a canvas beach chair like that.   
But I threw it away becasue it was ugly.

Could be a cell phone:

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Case/cell-phone.jpg)

Exactly!  That's what I have been saying but no one reads my posts except my Robots.   :smt052

Looks like Paulus has a wedding ring on his right hand in this picture, too.

How did ABC get that casino video?  I can't remember.

Yep it looks like a camera to me.  Looks a lot like my camera/video cam, small screen viewer.

Wow; so that new prosecutor actually said that they (meaning he and his associates, I take it) promised the suspects that they wouldn't prosecute the case after the end of this year!  Big incentive for them to talk; I mean, really, he had to be aware of their previous incarcerations and their ability to keep quiet.  I hate to admit this, but this latest farce appears to have been nothing more than a choreographed act to try to appease prospective tourists prior to their closing the case.  I really hope that they find that they've not only underestimated prospective tourists, but enraged them with these blatent insults to intelligence.  Wow.

Hi Robots,  How Funny, but what I see is what I think looks like a glass of beer sitting on the table that probably belongs to the guy in the gray shirt sitting this side of Paulus.

Too big to be a cell phone and shaped oddly for one, too chunky.

"Hans Mos told The Associated Press Friday he will drop the case unless prosecutors agree before the New Year that they have strong enough evidence to go to court."

Isn't it just sickening!

.

He's trying to look like a tourist to the girls.

Gives new meaning to the term dirty old man.

Anita must have seen the video and knew to blather on about the police taking HER camera.  Denial.

.

Dirty Hands...

Dutch wear wedding rings on their right hands for some reason. 

Yes, Anna, it is sickening; the whole situation is sickening and insulting.  I think that I read that, not only did he tell the AP he'd drop the case if he didn't have enough evidence, but that he had "promised the suspects" that he wouldn't prosecute after December 31 (like they haven't really always known that). 

I hate to make a personal attack on anyone's appearance, but what's that Joe T. wearing?  Was he chased out of this country for dressing funny?

Camcorder???


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/CasinoCameraCamcorder.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/41PESCGF19L.jpg)

Perhaps Anita's (lack of) fashion sense is rubbing off on him.

We never found out but heard that Posner wasn't happy about it.

That does look like a camcorder.  Since when are any types of cameras allowed into casinos?

Maybe Freddie wasn't the photographer after all.

 :shock:

Your own father!

.

Is that another law/rule that the Van der Sloots are allowed to break?

I can remember seeing my Grandmother quilting with her right hand and her wedding rings were on it.  Maybe we can verify with NYC.

.

Klaas,
I would suggest you send it to somebody but what's the use?  I don't think it would matter if we had the whole crime on video, nothing going to happen to anybody for it.

.

Hi again OceanExploration,  I like your question, and know that miracles happen every day that are way beyond what could ever have seemed possible.  Laci and Connor being washed ashore was one. 

But I think the miracle of finding Natalee and bringing her on home would give all those who loved her some peace.  And it also could also point to who did this to her.  Dr Baden said after all this time her bones would still be intact, and with the remnants of clothing, etc the cage, rope used, etc, all would be clues that would hopefully lead to the final outing of those who did not seek help for her when she needed it the most.

Helen? Your avatar is an inspiration and I want everyone to see it! Does this show up a little better?

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/originals/HB.gif)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/originals/HB.gif

Thank you, Klaas.  I bet he wasn't happy.

Weird seeing a camera in a casino though..It's a nono here in America  :wink:...Let's say he was filming the young MB girls. Was it for himself or someone else? He owe a debt to a millionaire or is he a sexual deviant like his son?

Since he picked out a porno tape for his son I am convinced this is no ordinary father. He probably even knows what fetish Joran likes and knew all about him preying on young tourist girls. Not exactly sure what fetish that would be since we know of the love affair with Guido and his 7th grade gf :shock: I guess the staff at the HI knew Joran best. They said he liked to prey on the blondes. Is that what he did 20 times before? He make money or was it for himself?

(http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/5839/joranblurredxz8.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Hey,
It came up in a conversation earlier today, and that was the only one I could find.  Klaas kindly fixed it up for me.  But yes, this one is a much better rendition!  Thanks!

PS:  I am the frog!

That's what it looks like to me.IMO

Hi Monkeys, just jumping in for a few. I found this article, not sure if it's been posted or not, Sorry if it has.  It's basically the same thing, just a different source...

Aruba Considers Closing Holloway Case
By DANICA COTO,AP
Posted: 2007-12-08 17:52:07
SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (Dec. 8) - Aruba's chief prosecutor said he will close the case of missing American teenager Natalee Holloway by the end of the month unless his office finds that there is enough evidence to charge someone with a major crime.

The prosecutor, Hans Mos, said he would not comment about the kind of evidence his office is reviewing but that he does not anticipate finding Holloway's remains and prosecuting a case without them would be "very hard."


Photo Gallery: An Enduring Mystery
 Pedro Famous Diaz, AP Joran van der Sloot, right, with his father Paulus Van Der Sloot, leaves an Aruban jail on Dec. 7, following his release. He had been held in connection with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.
    1 of 10
"We promised the suspects that after Dec. 31, we will not pursue the case," Mos told The Associated Press Friday. "This investigation should end at a certain point."

Holloway's parents did not return multiple messages left at their homes and on their cell phones.

No one has been formally charged in the investigation, which critics have said was botched in its early stages by Aruban authorities.

The probe has revolved around three suspects: Joran van der Sloot, a 20-year-old Dutch citizen and brothers Deepak Kalpoe, 24, and Satish Kalpoe, 21, from Surinam.

They were the last people known to see Holloway before she vanished on the night of May 30, 2005. All three, who have denied any role in her disappearance, have been arrested several times - the latest arrests coming last month - but released after different judges ruled there was not enough evidence to keep holding them.

Mos told the AP he will drop the case unless prosecutors in his office agree before the New Year that they have strong enough evidence to go to court.

He said he imposed the deadline himself earlier this year because he feels two years is a reasonable amount of time for bringing charges against someone.

Mos said he and the Holloway family feel pursuing a minor charge "doesn't serve a purpose." A person convicted of making a body disappear, for example, would serve only six months in prison, he said.

The search for Holloway spanned more than two years and involved hundreds of volunteers, Aruban soldiers, FBI agents and even Dutch F-16 jets laden with search equipment.

"We have a strong conviction that something happened that night, and that it was a very serious thing," Mos said. "The question is whether we are able to prove it."

He said he does not anticipate ever finding Holloway's remains.

"It's very hard to try a case without a body," he said. "It's not impossible, but you need substantial evidence that somebody was killed."

Authorities have combed sand dunes, drained a pond and dove into the island's clear waters. They have detained people including a disc jockey, a casino croupier, two former hotel security guards and even van der Sloot's father, a judge in training at the time.

False leads have included blond hairs attached to a duct tape found along Aruba's coast, and a bloody mattress later linked to a dead dog.

"The Aruban prosecution is going around in circles," said Joseph Tacopina, one of van der Sloot's attorneys. "They've bumbled this case from the beginning."

In 2005, Aruba's prime minister met with Holloway's mother and said authorities made mistakes at the start of their investigation.

Holloway arrived in Aruba to celebrate her high school graduation. On the last night she was seen alive, the Mountain Brook, Alabama native attended a beach concert featuring Boyz II Men and Lauryn Hill and then ate and danced at Carlos 'N Charlie's bar and restaurant.

She never showed up for her return flight, and police found her passport in her hotel room with her packed bags.

As difficult as it is, looking at Paulus is necessary. An international incident over these 3 punks? When does that happen.

All roads go through Paulus van der sloot. We have been distracted.

He has the most to lose. Joran could have raped 100 woman and as a minor been out and still young.

For Paulus, it's life or death.

He is suspect #1 and I think we should devote all our energy at him. How much do we really know about him?

I used to think AHATA was paying for Tacopina but now it's someone else, I'm sure of it.

Now that Anna spotted the camera, and the image is cleared up, it really does appear that it is sitting on the table filming Natalee and her friends.  WTF?

I believed Hans Mos.  I would have trusted that man to buy a used car from him!  Then he does this to Beth.  That was bad enough but he seems to have returned from his vacation saying he is "ending the investigation" and not just releasing J2K from suspect status.

They all seem to go to The Netherlands and return with a sort of attitude adjustment.  Maybe it's my imagination but seems Karin Janssen also did that as well as van der Straaten.

I agree Frank and I think most everyone agrees that PVDS is up to his eyeballs in this. He is obviously being protected and no one seems to be talking about it or doing anything about it in the Investigation.

The attorney on Greta that said he lived in the Carribean has stayed with me. He was one of the panel and said that Judges in the Carribean are not like those in the US. He said that they are NOT more conservative than our juries and that they jealously protect the judiciary. He went on to say that they would never, ever convict without solid evidence.

I've thought about that and I think therein lies some of the answers to why crime and corruption is so rampant in that part of the world. A judge has absolute and sole authority to decide the outcome of any case. That would make corruption so much easier!

I think when Paulus said, "No Body, No Case", he knew exactly what he was talking about. Add to that his friendship and working relationships with the system and this case was a foregone conclusion without a body. It's easier to see in hindsight, and they had a lot of help with corrupt officials, but even at trial, had it gone there, Paulus is right: No Body, No Case.

What a hellhole the place is.

He has the pit boss or casino employee standing right next to him. That would be absolutely unbelievable if that camera was filming at the table.

Yes, Paulus, if that is in fact Paulus, has the viewfinder out on the camera as though filming the MB girls.

But I am sure Julia has three hotel workers and a taxi driver who will swear that's a toaster or something!

.

I sent the photos to Red so he can forward to Beth and Jossy.  That's all we can do and hope that maybe Jossy or JQK make some noise about it.

hahahahaha   Yep!! wow is all I can say  LOL  These two people are something else!! Her with her see through blouse, and him with his fly open, both in pictures being seen around the world. 
Looks like another "Ooops" moment to me   LMAO

Our only hope now lies with the search team finding her body. Our prayers need to concentrate on them now...

Well,  If Joran was telling the girls incl. Natalee he was a tourist from Holland and then told them this was his father, wouldn't his father have to play the role of a tourist... ie: a camera?


IMO if Aruba closes this case and the FBI can step in and extradite Joran and others, then perhaps this is why they are hiring Joe T... posturing for a shadow of a doubt if it would go to a jury here.

What has happened in the last day sure doesn't help tourism to Aruba. The coverage that Mos got over Thanksgiving and that weekend went into more homes of people whom before weren't interested but now are.

What a horrible PR for Aruba and the Dutch let alone being cruel to Natalee's family! IMO

Yes it does Dihannah! Mrs. Red suggested that we do more than a 24 hour prayer vigil, and I'm certainly up for that! I think we may be waiting to see when the search starts.

Even if it's not Paulus, HA!, you'd think someone would have noticed and protested a bit what with all those crack, another HA!, investigators looking at all these things.

Yes, and you know you can count me in! Need to pray for there safety right now ;)

Were charges ever filed against Freddie for the video with the underage
and unconscious girls?  Guess that is not a crime either.

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_37679.php

I'm not going to post the entire thing, just the last paragraph.  Now we know why someone leaked the false information about Joran flying to the USA.  It was to throw the American media off:


According to rumours in the media of of the ditch yesterday evening the plane to the United States will have taken. This made the journalists on from its presence on airport Reina Beatrix. Nothing is less where. Joran were there its American lawyer do escort. Joran remain provisionally still ordinary on Aruba.

Excellent idea...I'm up for it as well...

Goodnight guys! I'm fighting getting sick and am going to try to rest hoping to prevent or lessen the onset. Have a great night. Look at Helen's avatar often: it has the right sentiments, and remember there's a ship with BIG HEARTED, HONEST, ETHICAL, COMPETANT people headed to Aruba with bringing Natalee home on their minds! Godspeed and God Bless!

Nite CBB!  Sweet dreams and hope you feel better!

Nite CBB - hope you feel better.  Have some chicken soup!

Am pages behind in reading...

yes, Europeans wear their wedding bands on the right hand.

And count me in for the prayer vigil.

What a surprise!  It's an old, familiar routine.  Same one they played on Beth and Dave and friends when they were there looking for Natalee.  Very clever the old "bait and switch" and no one has it down better than ALE, RenHo, and the lost ones.

Truly, if Joran's not in jail, I don't give a rat's ass where he is.

Posted at RU the Amigoe article translated:

iquitos Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:22 am   
Joran is not repeat not on his way to US

"In the US they would have offed me"

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_37679.php

‘In de VS zouden ze me afmaken’
8 Dec, 2007, 17:54 (GMT -04:00)

[picture] Joran, inmiddels geschoren, genietend van zijn vrijheid op weg naar de supermarkt.

Joran, shaven, enjoying his freedom on the way to the supermarket.

ORANJESTAD — Beide advocaten hadden verzekerd dat Joran van der Sloot na dagenlange, eenzame opsluiting absoluut geen woord met de media wilde wisselen. Vooral zijn ouders zijn uiteraard bezorgd. Een paar uur na zijn vrijlating is hij toch bereid om vrijdagmiddag een eerste reactie te geven als hij met zijn jongere broer door een stortbui terugloopt van een supermarkt in de regio Noord naar het ouderlijk huis een paar honderd meter verderop. In de supermarkt hadden mensen al gefluisterd: “Hij is terug”, “Wat staat hij door”, en “Het is zo’n aardige familie”. Van der Sloot reageert beleefd in het Papiaments als iemand hem iets vraagt. Bezorgd lijkt hij niet om de straat over te gaan. “In de Verenigde Staten zouden ze me wel afmaken, denk ik.”

Both lawyers assured that after days of solitary confinement he did not want to talk to the press. Is parents are particularly worried. A couple hours after his release he was prepared friday afternoon to give a first reaction as he walked back (in a shoving match?) from the supermarket in Noord to his family home. In the supermarket the people whispered "He is back! and it is such a nice family. Van der Sloot reacts politely in Papiamento if somebody asks him something. He does not seem worried to be on the street. "In the US they would off me, I think."

door Raul Henriquez

De 20-jarige jongen die nog steeds op de verdachtenlijst van Justitie staat, is duidelijk nog niet over het avontuur van de laatste dagen heen. Vijftien dagen heeft hij, voornamelijk geïsoleerd, vastgezeten. “Ik zat in een cel waar wel vijftien man in konden, maar ik zat alleen. Ik mocht een beetje voetballen en kreeg inderdaad de Bijbel. Liever had ik contact met anderen gehad.”

The 20 year old young man who is still on the suspect list is clearly not over his adventure of the last days. For 15 days he was isloated and confined. "I sat in a cell for 15 people, but alone. I could play a little football and had the bible. I would have preferred contact with others."


De verhoren met de rechercheurs vond hij zwaar. “Niet dat ze me constant lastigvielen, maar op vaste tijdstippen werd ik lang ondervraagd. Ik had gewoon niets tegen ze te zeggen, had alles ooit al gezegd en heb tot het laatste moment gezwegen.”


He found the questioning from the detectives hard (heavy). Not that they constantly bothered me, but on a regular schedule i was questioned for long periods. I had nothing to say to them and had already told them everything they asked and was silent until the end.

De aanhouding in zijn kamer in Arnhem was een complete verrassing. Joran van der Sloot was van plan naar Amsterdam te verhuizen vanwege zijn studielocatie. Hij was niet van plan om voor de kerst naar Aruba te gaan. “Ik dacht echt dat alles voorbij was. Misschien dat ik later nog zou worden opgeroepen voor een afsluitend gesprek hier, dat had ik verwacht. Maar dat ik zo werd aangehouden in Nederland, had ik niet gedacht. Bleek dat ze hier niets nieuws hadden. Ik begrijp nog steeds niet wat ze wilden.”

The arrest from his room in Arnhem was a complete surprise. He was planning to move to Amsterdam due to a change in his study location. He was not planning to come to Aruba for Christmas. "I really though that everything had passed. Maybe I would be called in later for a final conversation, that is what I expected. But that I was arrested in Holland i n that way i did not imagine. It seemed they had something new. I still don't understand what they wanted."


Van der Sloot baalt ervan dat hij een deel van zijn studie heeft moeten missen. Graag wil hij gauw terug. Hoe lang hij blijft, weet hij nog niet zeker. “Ik blijf nog even bij mijn ouders. En Aruba blijft ondanks alles een fijne plek. Zo meteen neem ik eerst een duik in het zwembad.”

Van der Sloot complained about having to miss his studies. He wants to go back soon. How long he will stay, he still doesn't know. "I will stay a bit more with my parents. And Aruba is a fine place despite everything. In a while I will take my first dip in the pool."

Op Aruba zal hij geen contact opnemen met de broers Deepak en Satish Kalpoe die een paar dagen eerder vrijkwamen. De vriendschap lijkt ‘al jaren’ bekoeld. Nog een effect van de zaak, beaamt Joran van der Sloot.


In Aruba he won't make contact with the Kalpoe brothers Deepak and Satish who were released a few days earlier. The friendship is already years cooled off. Another effect of the case, says Joran.


Volgens geruchten in de media zou Van der Sloot gisteravond het vliegtuig naar de Verenigde Staten hebben genomen. Dit maakten de journalisten op uit zijn aanwezigheid op luchthaven Reina Beatrix. Niets is minder waar. Joran was daar om zijn Amerikaanse advocaat uitgeleide te doen. Joran blijft voorlopig nog gewoon op Aruba.

According to rumors in the media Joran left last night for the US. The journalists made that up out of his presence at the airport. Nothing is less true. Joran was there to see off his US lawyer. He will remain on Aruba for the time being.

Yeah I didn't think the Kalpoes would do a press conference to announce there innocence..lol

Hi Ocean!! Welcome to SM!! yess, please do post that data, it would be SO interesting!!
It is SUCH an honor to have you posting here at SM, thank you for visiting with us, and many Thanks to you, the Persistence and crew for your selfless undertaking of this mission to bring our girl Natalee home where she belongs! I agree with the other posters that you all are doing God's work and rest assured that He is making the trip with you, and guiding the path of the Persistence. I feel humbled to be able to actually be "speaking" with you, and it has done my heart much good to be reminded that there is still a lot of good in this scary world, evidenced by the supporters and crew of the Persistence who made this mission possible by volunteering the time, knowledge, finances, the ship, equipment etc. in order to search for Natalee and hopefully bring her home at last. We realize the sacrifices all of you are making and the chances you are taking. The world is watching, and our prayers are with all of you for your safety and success.
Thanks for taking the time to keep us updated, and sharing with us Ocean. Stop by and visit us often!
God Speed!!

I agree CBB and Dihannah, and for this I would take part in a prayer vigil.  It is a wonderful idea I think because every positive thought from everyone, no matter where they are, counts.  I'm realizing what a huge job this ship and crew have ahead of them, as it will be them against the sea.  Every prayer will simply send positive thoughts for their safety and of course the miracle we all want to take place.  YaYa

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (AP) The clock is ticking for officials to find concrete evidence in Natalee Holloway's disappearance.

Aruba's chief prosecutor says he plans to close the case by the end of the month unless his office finds enough evidence to charge someone with a major crime.

Hi GabbyG,  Great to see you <<Wavy Guy>>    This will be  a real learning experience to really in essence go through the search with them as it is going on.  What a neat and unexpected bit of fortune to come our way.

Wouldn't it be just great karma ******* if this search finds something of Natalee.  Under the wire, ya baby, that would make everyone sit up and clear their throats!

This site link was posted this morning by Nuts44x4.  It is very good and discusses various aspects very briefly with regard to the rules and Treaty for extradition with The Netherlands.

It is against their constitution to extradite a Dutch National.  So I don't think this is going to happen.

How ironic that THIS is against the law yet drugging and raping tourists isn't.

Excellent article at that site and before we get too excited about extradition or conducting investigations, think we need to read the entirely of this short article and apply where applicable.


Goodnight!

It's late for me.  Goodnight all.

Nite Helen and anyone else leaving for the nite.

I'm calling it a night myself!  GOODNIGHT ALL!

Yes it would. After reading these articles today its about all we have to be hopeful for. The Dutch have had this case since aug 2006..Not sure what more they are waiting on at this point :(

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g03xmlbMM0BjGFGrLokyvroCO6FwD8TDEK0O0
http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2007/12/suspects_release_no_surprise_t.html

I agree *******.  Night Klass and Helen.  I'm going to wind my way to bed as well, but see you guys tomorrow.  Night to you too Anna and Gabby  ;}

Hey Scandi, hi there!!  Great to see you!  Yess, I am very excited about OceanEx sharing the info and experiences of their trip on the Persistence. Some exciting times ahead!
Time to sign off, nite Scandi, nite Monkeys!!

*******- I have an idea that may work with regards to taking the case to trial.

Bad sleep night here.  :(


Carpe I see you on. email me when you can.. TY
 My prayers  to the folks on the boat... Prayers to Nats family
I am do damn behind cause of work it sucks..  :(

"They've bumbled this case from the beginning."

Just amazes me both JQK and Tacopina can say this. Why don't they name names..Like Paul Van Der Sloots best friend Jan Van Der Straaten bumbled the case. He was so incompetent in Natalee's investigation but he took over as Bonaires Chief of Police? Yeh Ok!!

How many times have they talked about or looked into this crooked fat slob? Mr How much money do you have? The guy that changed the statements,tore up confessions,intimidated witnesses and was in charge of all the physical evidence.

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/jacobs1.jpg)

Whats your idea?

 Big Fat POS  Fat F**K..    :-x :-x :-x

Mos wanted to separate everyone in order to get them to talk.  If he only prosecutes the 2K's and not Joran at this time he may have the pressure he needs to get them to talk.

Not a bad idea but I have no idea if they can do that and he said today they wont have a trial to persue lesser crimes..He gave a example like making a body dissapear is only 6 months in jail time. They just don't seem to want to use anything to there advantage like Crowne Witness,bending the rules or investigating the people that intentionally bumbled the case. They just want to close the case.IMO

I find it hard to believe that he won't even attempt to get the truth in the court of law. Or even go after the sexual assault charges that dompig is on tape saying right now he could get Joran for 8 years on sexual assault.

http://tinyurl.com/3yxgr6

It's a shame that they don't have law enforcement down there. This would probably make 2K's mad enough to not go down alone. Especially, if they had limited involvement.  Of course if they are equally guilty, Joran may speak up and want equal punishments. It would nice to see the lawyers turn on each other, for the good of their clients.

Time to call it a night. Good night to who ever is left.

They have no evidence because the powers that be in the first few months got rid of it.  What about the Dutch looking in to that corruption.  They just may find the evidence they need.  Call Dompig in for questioning and ask him why he changed his story five times about what happened to her.  Round them all up and see if the ALE that were taking PV's from witnesses can tell us what Van der stratten did and how he helped his friends.  Mos, go see why Witt and Vocking changed the search warrant when Witt was supposed to have been somewhere else.  Take PV's on all the people that found evidence, then the ones that got rid of it.  You don't have a case because you haven't pushed past the corruption. Don't believe what these lying officials say.  Reinterogate all of the Koens, Freddie, lorenzo etc.  Where were the sloot children, home or with Anita.  What did that truck bring to the sloot house.  What was on Anita's and Freddies cameras.  Why do they let all the criminals go free without ever having to be interogated again. You needed to go after this case not taking into account anything the Arubans did.  Half the time no one knows if it is police or beach patrol.  Look at the mess down there and take 2 minutes to figure ou why they need you to keep giving them more money.  It will get worse, because if we don't get answers, we are going to do  our  best to keep people away from Aruba, and hurt any dutch company we can.  This whole thing is just BS and it's time to know the truth.  What ever  happened to interpol being involved.  Tell us when our FBI can come in and  get answers.  Interogat  Karen Janse, why did she  release  Paul as a suspect, when she knew damn well he was.  Ask her where the evidence went that  changed form before  it  got there.   She personally carried evidence herself.  Where is it.    Not good  enough  Mos, this is ridiculous.  No wonder the  school of  boys  who raped and recorded the school girl had no fear.  This attitude is encouraged by the dutch.  Ridiculous, cruel, corrupt, liars,  perverts and  preditors-thats  what  I think of when Aruba is mentioned.    And lots of money coming from somewhere to cover all these mistakes, as well as defend them.  I hope many people involved in Aruba and some of the Dutch judges fall right into the ocean.  Then they could meet Natalee and be ashamed.

Reporter; Paulus, how do you feel about this recent turn of events, and your son's pending release from detention?
Paulus; Words escape me, but I am highly aroused that my son will be free to find me another naive tourist to make disappear.

Very good article.   I read it and tried twice to respond to no avail.  I got server or page error.  I have not watched NBC or MSNBC in a long, long time and have no plans to view them again.  Ronald Reagan must be turning over in his grave --- remember how he got started in TV -- GE Theatre.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedding_ring
In The Netherlands, Catholic people wear it on the left, all others on the right

In a few European countries people wear their wedding bands on the left hand but the majority wear them on their right hands. In the Netherlands Catholics wear their rings on the left while others wear them on the right.
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/46046

I went shopping yesterday.  Well, not really shopping but trying to get an order on chairs straight where I was delivered the wrong chairs, but ... beside the point, I kept my radio on public radio and they announced every few minutes the case according to Mos, would most likely be closed by 12/31/07, secondary to lack of evidence.

snipped from Klaas's post of Joran's statement after release...
"I sat in a cell for 15 people, but alone. I could play a little football and had the bible."

He forgot to mention his cell phone :wink:

hiya scandi, anything is possible
i wish we had the whole tape

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Morning monkeys.  Why is it so hard for me to do a search here?  All I ever get is something about no matches found. 

Could someone tell me where that list of PV's that Klaas has refined from Grande's list is located?  TIA

MuminOhio I am working on something for you.  You have gotten mine and another very smart monkey's attention.  :wink:

How disgusting!Jeeeezzzz,put some underpants on man or at least don't pull your shorts up to your man boobs! :smt065

This one is a bit more complete than Grandes:

http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/Statements_timeline.htm

Joran's Bible is The Aruban edited edition,  The Commandment "Thou shalt not kill" has been omitted.

Thanks Klaas.

I'm tore down, I'm almost level with the ground.

BUT, im better now

thats how i felt a couple days ago, i feel much better today
cant explain it, something good will happen
 :cool:

I don't know how everyone else feels, but I think this attitude of not pursuing lesser charges is a real can of shit-o. OJ wasn't convicted in the criminal trial, and Nicole's and Ron's family were not witnesses to true "justice" for what he did, but I vividly remember an interview with her sister, Denise, just after the civil trial and she said that it was the first thing that had eased the pain just a little for her family. In a court of law they had been able to secure a finding of guilt for OJ in connection with Nicole's death. It was an official stamp of what the family knew to be true.

She said that after the criminal trial, there was a maddening sense that he had been washed totally clean from the murders. He could truthfully say there had been an exhaustive investigation and it had cleared him. The civil finding took that away if nothing else.

I think that Beth and Dave deserve the same. If the 3 are convicted of body disposal, rape, kidnapping, whatever.........they have been officially connected to a crime committed against their daughter. And 3 or six months in jail is far better than 3 or 6 months on the street. IMO.

From Satish's PV of June 13:

After we drove the route we went back to Bubali. I called my brother Deepak to pick me up. When he picked me up we went straight to the racket club, near Marriot. My brother told me we were going to Joran. He is an intern at the club. In front of the entrance of the club the 3 of us met and talked. We talked about what happened. Joran told him the police called him to take him to drive the route. We told him which route we drove so he knew where to go. We spoke for about 15 minutes. We did not speak long because the police was on its way to pick up Joran. After that we drove straight home. At home my brother and I finished our sister´s home work. It had to be finished the next day. As we were busy my brother got a phone call from Joran. My brother told me we had to go to Joran´s later on. After we finished our sister´s work we went to Joran. I drove the car to his house.


Remember the K2 have just finished offering the HI lie as the latest story of what happened.  What does the "intern at the club" mean?  Joran was an intern at the racket club?  Did he have a key to the place as a result? He was working there at the time?  The police were going there to pick him up?  Why after all of this at the police station did Joran call them?  Why in the heck are they doing their sister's work? Where was the sister? 

I think I have missed something about Joran working at the racket club...I always thought he just played tennis there...if he actually worked there...the bag and shoes become more interesting.

lost battles are not the same as losing the war

ask any soldier they will tell you about "battles"

we just got pushed off the mountain,

we are SIMPLY - REGROUPING

 :cool:

Don't feel that way.  You have been my hope and shining light in my time of depression.  When I have been so discouraged and felt so sad...I cam here and asked where you were.  We have needed you to keep our spirits up.  You made me believe that mankind still has the ability to make good happen in this evil world.  Without your positive attitude I think I would have given up months ago. 

The monkeys have the answers..they are all here in the 2 years worth of work we have done.  You have helped me to keep thinking and asking the questions.  If the case is closed to Aruban prosecution we can't let it slide off the radar.  A life was extinguished because too many people turned a blind eye and looked the other way.  That is how evil gets a foothold and then it's even more difficult to stop.  Thanks to you I know that it is possible to stop...we just have to have faith that someone will find a link...a tiny little tidbit of something...that will spark ideas and thoughts into actions. 

Robots, without you and your courageous in your face comments to Aruba and all involved I would never have had the courage to carry on.   

 :wink: :smt052
im feeling better

:)

NYC,

Can you confirm for me that the Dutch do not ever extradite Dutch nationals and that it is a violation of their basic Constitution to do so?

Would they not have to be tried in The Netherlands under any and all circumstances?

I do not want anyone to get the false hope that anyone, least of all a minor when crime committed, is ever going to be handed over by the Dutch to stand trial in a foreign country.  Never happen.

.

Of course......I would prefer that Paulus be wearing that same wedding band around his neck   :cool:

Once you get that confirmation, remember the post by our 'Blue Moon of KY' a few days ago..........

"Why when Joran was told any questioning in the future would occur in the NL and then ARUBA had him picked up and sent back there--why was this?  Maybe the influence could not be put on the Dutch and control would have been lost if all this occured in the NL.  I think Aruba overrode the NL to bring him back to Aruba for questioning so they could be in control of the outcome. Mos maybe was side tracked by all this.  I hope he has learned his lesson now."

Robots? There have been a few times when I came to the forum to find your headlines and my heart would stop because I thought I had missed something huge. After reading a bit, I would realize that you were being your eternal optimistic self, and I wanted to choke and hug you at the same time.  :lol:

DON'T YOU GO ANYWHERE, AND DON'T FAIL US NOW, YOU OVERGROWN LIZARD OF HOPE! I agree with you, something good is going to happen and because you are here puffing that cigar, I don't feel foolish or alone in my feelings.

It's little things, but I couldn't help but look at those pics of Anita and Paulus and compare them to recent pics of Beth. Beth has been through the fires of Hell and has emerged purified. She has her priorities straight from the pain and knows from where to seek comfort. Paulus and Anita show the wear and scorch marks and I don't think they have emerged from whatever depths they descended. There's some sort of promise in that, that mere humans cannot control outcomes and fashion fate. I'm glad of that.

I believe something good will happen, and you and I are going to celebrate it together.  :wink:

And Lala's is going to write us in her little book when we do, 'cause she's going to be right here as well!  :lol:

The Dutch are holding and refuse to extradite a suspect in the 9/11 attack on this country.  I am not sure he is even a Dutch national. 

Remember the words from Paulus the first night Beth arrived:

You have no jurisdiction!


We can't get them to extradite for crimes committed here where we do have jurisdiction.  They just refuse to do it no matter what we say as we have seen with this terrorist.  Even France cooperated far better than the Dutch in this regard.

They don't respect our system.

.

Not sure about your question but maybe this is an answer on your question.

Extradition
The Netherlands has extradition with another country. The Netherlands authoriteits can come along work entirely for an extradition. I have no idea about the extradition law and (International) law. I am sure, when someone get an extradition request to another country, where the Netherlands has an extradition with. The person has need a International lawyer. Because in the another country where this person has something has done, there is another law.
But in the Holloway case, Aruba is Dutch territory and there is Dutch law. Then there is no International lawyer need.
Only an extradition because Aruba is not the Netherlands. They have just many things look like on the Netherlands, only in Aruba there is much better weather.
But again about extradition, I think everyone can get a extradition when he or she becomes suspicious of involvement at an illegal offence. I think also when someone is under the 18. Of course must the Netherlands, with the concerning country an extradition request have.

I hope u get something new from this. It becomes time for, there more in will deepen for me.
When there is anything else, please ask again!

this was not an extradition from holland to another country. remember their big excuse for letting jvds go to holland in 2005, was because holland and the islands are all one big country, and jvds could be called in at any time for anything a.l.e. needed.  turned out they were wrong about just being able to ask them to come in and talk.  paulus is just twisting people and actions to suit his needs of controlling natalee's case.  moving jvds from holland to aruba isn't much more involved than transfering a prisoner from one jail to another in the same town.  that's what we were lead to believe anyway.
dennisintn

Yes, I agree Dennis but I am afraid some harbor the hope that because of various treaties in place, there is even a slim hope for extradition to this country, the U.S., because of a civil rights violation of our citizen.  Not within the Dutch system but to stand trial under U.S. laws.  I am just saying this won't happen and we should not get hopes up for it only to have them dashed again.


Note:

Article 8 deals with the extradition of nationals. It contains two provisions similar to those included in some of our other recently signed extradition treaties. It grants the Executive Authority the discretionary power to extradite its own nationals. If extradition is denied on the basis of nationality, the requested Party undertakes to submit the case to its competent authorities for the purpose of prosecution, provided that Party has jurisdiction over the offense. This article thus takes into account the law of the Netherlands ordinarily prohibiting the extradition of Dutch nationals but allowing for their prosecution in the Netherlands for offenses committed abroad.

Article 8 also contains an innovation. It provides that the requested Party may not refuse extradition solely on the basis of nationality where there exists a treaty between the Parties on the execution of foreign penal sanctions. Such agreements, more often referred to as prisoner transfer treaties, would, for example, allow a Dutch national tried and convicted in the United States to return to the Netherlands to serve out his ordered term of incarceration. [*7] This provision was put in Article 8 to provide for liberalization of the nationality clause should the Parties in the future conclude such an agreement.

I think this is really true: They don't respect our system.
But it law systeem, I hate this so great.

There was a men in Suriname. He has killed his father. Was never go to the jail in Suriname, and lives free here in the Netherlands.
And 10 times councils where he works? He works by the Dutch Government in The Hague.
Very high corruption in the Netherlands!!!!!

Reporter; Paulus, how do you feel about this recent turn of events, and your son's pending release from detention?
Paulus; Words escape me, but I am highly aroused that my son will be free to find me another naive tourist to make disappear.
[/quote]

this would be extremely funny except that it might be true.
dennisintn

Ok, no idea about the wearing neckless. IMO has nothing to do with the Catholics.

NYC,

Thank you.  I have read this is the case and that other members of the European Union are concerned but they just can't do much with the Dutch to bring them in line with the other countries who are members of the EU.

We Dutch can be stubborn, can't we?  Any reform will have to come from within or it will not happen is what I think for Dutch will never be forced to do much of anything.  They have to get tired of it and make the changes themselves or they would make any reforms just not work one way or another. 

Also have read many things about Dutch judges being corrupt.  These days, a system that operates in secret is going to have this I am afraid.  More open courts might prevent some of this, I don't know.  But all human beings are capable of corruption and wrong doing.  It helps to hold them to public scrutiny in my opinion.

.

Remember, Jorans Dutch lawyer did not fight the extradition back to Aruba.  Remember Quido's (is this spelled right?) lawyer did and he was not sent back.  Joran was better off being sent back to Aruba for his protection by his father and judges. Guido was not best served being sent back to Aruba.

Oh yeah Dutch people can be stubborn, I am very much time stubborn and then I get a big brawl in the house. And tell my parents I do what I want to do.  :wink: Not really good for me, because I must listing to my parents and take them advise, because they are older.

What is this, These days, a system that operates in secret is going to have this I am afraid.
Where is a operates in secret? Please, tell me more about it, maybe I don't have heard this.

Blue Moon of KY - there is no fight for stop the extradition to Aruba. Because they are Dutch KLPD are involved in the research.
And I early wrote Aruba is almost the Netherlands.
With Guido his arrested was something else doing on, he just get only few questions without dention.

Thanks NYC. You are always a help to us.

Investigate the Judges and their brotherhood (and teflon shield).

We all know there is major corruption going on... The judges seems to be a good place to start...

Investigate also the Aruban government at the Minister level... Since Paulus is an apostle of Rudy Croes then it makes sense that the "brotherhood" has deep roots.

Investigate the "Posner" effect ... the brotherhood must get it's funding from somewhere...

If they want the focus off the JK2 then lets re-set the fire where it needs to be -- on discovering who is calling the shots and isolating the masterminds... They believe they are above the law since they are the ones who make the law...

Noriega thought he was above the law too... Now he rots in a U.S. Prison.  IF we can capture a head of state then surely we can capture despots at minister and judicial and polis levels who grow corruption for their own gain...

In the end this may be the only solution...

I'm Dutch-American and stubborn as well, NYC.  At least we know we are, haha, unlike some who don't recognize it.

By operates in secret, I refer to the manner in which Dutch court is conducted.  We have many cases broadcast on TV in live time in this country so to us it seems very secretive that no one is allowed in the courtroom from the press for example during the trials and hearings before judges.  It is required to be public in this country except for juveniles.

.

btw... take a good look at the Posner cases that Smid has been involved with and you will get my drift...

With all that has been going on of late, I have to wonder why in the world the vd Sloots and their evil cadre are all over the newspapers, preening and posing, pants unzipped, see through paraphernalia and all and generally seen as celebrating as though they are so happy that this young girl is still missing.

Is this not the height of callous behavior and poor taste?

the situation here is tragic

one of these days, the people involved in this corruption are going to mess with the wrong person(s)

im anxiously awaiting that day, and in particular i am waiting for paulus and joran
to step on the wrong toes of someone that will solve the "NON ANSWERING of questions with the TRUTHFUL answers  once and for all"

that day is coming

Are u 50%, 25%, 12,5% or 6,25% Dutch? Unlike some who don't recognize it. Lol.... But not only Dutch people been this.  :wink:
Ah, I understand about the operates in secret. That is many time in the Netherlands. It depends on the process. When its a great process, OM and judges don't want media or people in the court. No idea, or that is stipulated legally.

Lalas

I have always remembered Satish's intern statement.  That's why I have no problem with the "beach" story.  There was a road that went to the beach.  If Joran wanted to dropped at the beach, he would have been dropped at the beach, not North of Marriott.  They needed to account for possibly being seen on that road, especially with the gardener witness.  I just wonder if the Racket  Club had a white pick up (that the fisherman could have seen).  They all hung out there.

80% with 20% Scots-Irish just to give me a temper from the Irish, lol.

.

You are right Robots that justice will not be denied forever in this.

I don't know how or where it will come from but it will be served.  That's the natural order of things, anyway.

.

Mos came out with guns ablazin'.

He said that he has Explosive new evidence.
He said that he had proof that Natalee was dead.
He said that the father was definately involved.
He was willing to talk.
He gave us all hope and made us believe in him. (except San)

What happened to him?  Who got to him?
Just before the Kalpoes were released he suddenly canceled
a news conference and his next interview he blamed the
family, the media and the DEA agent. He was suddenly
like a different man.

Where is the explosive new evidence? 
How did he know that the Kalpoes disposed of the body?

It is all goofy!

Cool almost full Dutch...lol..and Scots-Irish...good temper tosame....lol..
What I have heard, few people have Scots-Irish blood in them or are familiar with this country. And live in the US.

You are so right!  I remain stunned by this and don't know what in the world to think now.

It's even gone from releasing the suspects to closing the investigation entirely.

Talking now as though Natalee just died from non-violence maybe in Joran's presence and the Kalpoe Body Disposal Unit just did a sort of unconventional internment of some sort or other that would require only minutes be served in jail so why bother with that trivial detail.

Every time he speaks of late, this becomes less and less a crime and less serious.

And yet nothing has really changed.  Natalee is still missing and her parents do not know what happened to her after she got in the car with the suspects.

Mind boggling!

i can't remember this minute, and don't have time to look, but i don't think guido was under the envelope of suspect when he was arrested in holland, and i think there were other differences in the circumstances of the two men also.
dennisintn

nyclover.  did you hear peter devries say anything about natalee's case?
dennisintn

Hee hee hee....I bet Taco ha NO IDEA his little picture would turn out!!

Same thing I've been thinking for the past few days...

O/T Pages are loading so slowly for me I can't stand it any longer.

Going to drag out the tree and do the thing with that.

If we had all just listened to Carnut, we would still have our trees up from last year and be spared all this re-decorating business!   :lol:

Well, Anna, that's one thing no no one would ever accuse the vdS of, having class.  Had they class, would they allow their kids to hang out (with) (without) them in a local gambling casino?  Would they befriend Julia Renfro?  Would Joran have hung out with the PIMPS that he did?  Would he have worn that same checked blue shirt for weeks on end?  Would Anita have gone out in public with a see-thru blouse?  Would Paulus have dared wear pants that were half zipped and s sweaty shirt?  Would they have chosen Joe Tacopino as an attorney and even if they felt it necessary, would they have had their picture made with him for what appeared a social event?

When people with class are on holiday, they can "slum" and still be trendy, but not the inhabitants of said place.  We all do things on holiday out of cultural interests that we might not do each day in our lives, but it appears the Sloots live like they are on holiday.  Of course not many of us even on holiday would wear see-through blouses or wear our pants unzipped.

Pages have  been loading slowly for me for a while.  Well, good luck, Anna, with your tree.  I have 3 decorated and I think that is it.  I am through.  I usually try to have more but this body is worn out and moreover my DH says he is not going back to the attic or the storage house another time to get decorations.  :lol:

I learned a long time ago that when something is "mind boggling" and seems all screwed up - it's because IT IS!  So...this is screwed up.  Means someone got to Mos, big time, or that Mos was putting out a big bluster to hopefully scare one of J2K into talking, or that Mos didn't know how corrupt the judge was and ended up having his on "mind boggling" experience.

.

They have no shame nor pride.

******* and/or Klassend,

Would you look at that video again.
It looks to me as though he [Paulus] takes a sip from his drink,
It looks like a small pile of chips in front of him
then his right hand picks up chips off the blackjack table and then
he removes his hand from the table and under the table -  when the video goes fuzzy

Why would one remove chips from the table though if that is what I saw?

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3922731&affil=wlne


(http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/9844/paulusincasino2eq5.jpg)
See his hand, watch it.

lol...yeah, something like that! :lol:

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there anything new?

TACOPINA: Not for my eyes.

VAN SUSTEREN: Are there new wiretaps?

TACOPINA: There are new recordings.





Hans Mos
ABC NEWS
November 26, 2007

Hans Mos, Aruba's chief prosecutor, told ABC News he believes the the new evidence makes the case against the three men stronger than it was two years.

"We are convinced if we had had this evidence we have now they would not have been released by the court at that time," Mos said.



We Learned Something New In The Natalee Holloway Investigation
by Greta Van Susteren Gretawire.com

CAR WASHING - Greta interviews off camera the neighbor to Kalpoe brothers who saw them washing their car the night
Natalee disappeared.

_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
Tacopino said directly: "the homes were bugged and one of the Kalpoe brothers was taped admitting he had returned later to the beach that night"





MOS: New evidence is evidence that we didn't have before. As simple as that.

new evidence gained after the moment that they were released,

the evidence is just material, but they have to be confronted with that because they were never confronted with those findings.


MOS has stated:
 
we had to confront them with it. They are suspects, each of them, and they are witnesses against the other, possible. So we have to question them.

That's what we are aiming for. And if this information given by them shows that they are not involved, then they will not be prosecuted. But we don't think that that's the case.

We are not desperate.

we cannot disclose it at this time.

It's not just one person taking that decision. We take it as an organization, and meaning (ph) an organization, we (INAUDIBLE) with -- there are 45 people here, and they contribute one way or another in this case,


decision to re-arrest these three suspects was a decision taken by 10 lawyers, by 10 lawyers sitting around a table (INAUDIBLE) whole afternoon, being presented the new material.


The execution of the whole investigation is done by police officers, who were, in this case, after the Dutch were involved, handpicked from the Netherlands






Greta:

So it's physical evidence, something you can actually touch or feel

JQK: Or see. Sure.

Greta: or some scientific thing

JQK: Absolutely

Evidence - JQK

"I can't specifically answer but i think the evidence that they have their hands on now will do a lot to clarify the timeline, the whereabouts, the actions and where everybody was that night and the time it was when they were at certain places and what was going on."


THEN KELLY STATED
The report of significant new incriminating evidence was misleading," Kelly said. "It was the same evidence or lack of evidence they had from the very beginning."
_______________________________________

Dave Holloway: “There is always hope of finding Natalee alive; however, police are saying to look in the sea”
http://tinyurl.com/2yh3b8

I'm in Florida. Men wear "business casual" or "golf casual" instead of suits. It is possible to look very good without wearing a suit and lots of jewelry.

Question: Is everything in Joe T's wardrobe SHINY?

He seems to go from shiny suits in NY to shiny sportswear in the tropics. Topped off with shiny hair.

Thought I'd bring this over from the front page while it is slow in here.
10061906, a frequent front page poster is leaving us.

10061906 on December 9th, 2007 1:33 pm This is my final posting but I will never let go of Natalee or the fact that Aruba killed her.
Justice was blinded by Aruba.

There are two reasons why Natalee cannot be found.
One: she is alive and being held captive somewhere.
Everything that followas is my opinion based on information that has been released..

Two: Natalee has passed on.
There were injuries to her that forensic evidence would lead to either her abductors or injuries she sustained; so she had to disappear.
It is more difficult to convict someone if there is no body.
If she is alive where is she? She could be any where in the world.
If she is dead where are her remains?
Are they in the Ocean? If she were taken out on a boat then more are dragged into the story.
No: When asked Joran tells us she is not in the sea.
Is she buried near the Fisherman’s Huts? No the ground is too hard to go below at least six feet: a back hoe would be required.
Was she cremated? It is a possible, but then more are dragged into the dirty secret.
So what is available that a body could disappear with the minimum of effort?
A ready made grave or crypt or a hole in the ground like and air shaft to a mine are a few.
From Satish’s statement. “I took it that he meant, if a corpse is found evidence could be found on the corpse that could lead to our arrest”. (some guilt is implied here). Sounds like Paulus knows the Kalpoes are only involved with driving Natalee someplace and is trying to implicate/intimidate them in what happened.
It is more like a threat. I know what happened to Natalee while she was with Joran; I know you guys only drove them around. I will get you attorneys but you have to stick to the story that you dropped Joran and Natalee off at the beach and don’t know anything more”. If not I can make you hang for her murder and burial.
Satish continued.
“This is not the first time that we have dropped young American girls off at their hotels, with we I mean my brother, Joran and I. This means that they have a taxi globe and impersonate a taxi cab.” Each weekend Joran is with us.” But just how many would fit in Deepak’s taxi? Maybe six persons at best.
Maybe only one drugged girl plus the three.
“Deepak and I dropped Joran and the missing girl at the beach north of the Marriot”.
IMO Joran then transferred Natalee into a waiting car or pick up truck and off to another destination.
There is also a reference to bringing a camera to Freddy.
Satish then blames Joran for Natalee’s disappearance.
That is where the K2’s leave the story.
At the time of Natalee’s disappearance; Jaime states that loco Stef is Joran’s girlfriend. However no where in Joran’s book does he mention her.
Joran says that Jaime’s father is never around for Jaime but Jaime says he picks his father up from work every night. Sounds like Joran and Paulus more then Jaime and his father.
Jaime states through Freddy he met Joran. Usually Joran, Freddy, Koen, Sander and me go out together. We go to Carlos and Charlie’s, Bahia, Tandra; etc. He knows Koen and Sander for over a year, plays poker (poke her) with them but does not know their last name.(?)
Sounds like they all had sex with a Natalee but at the time they did not know her last name; if you use “Thoughtprints”.
Joran mentions that Madison is hanging out with her boy friend and that Natalee and Ruth share the same twin bed and describes the room and room number.
Sounds like hidden cameras at the Holiday Inn and Van Cromvoirt could handle that. Perhaps Natalee sleeping with Ruth in his mind constitutes them being lesbians because men would not sleep that close together least they be called gay.
From Deepak’s statement.
“Joran was at that moment in time with a friend of us named Guido in the casino.”
So much for Guido saying he does not know Joran. Guido also hangs out with Andre. Deepak says Guido talks a little funny and may be gay. This was before Guido’s lawyer said that Guido was innocent because he is gay. He was the only one charged with heavy battery. Aruba did not want Guido back for murder; Posner wanted him for skimming the casino with Joran at the black jack tables.
(As an aside why are locals only permitted so many days in the casino. That makes no sense unless they are there money laundering.)
Remember Deepak says that Joran could only win back $100.00 of the $360.00 that was lost either by Ruth or Natalee. Joran says that $100.00 is the best he could do. How does he know that is the best unless that is the amount Guido can loose without arousing suspicion from the pit boss?
I could go on and on; but here are my final thoughts on what happened to Natalee. She was given a roofi by Satish at C and C’s. Remember Natalee, Joran and Satish disappeared for a while and Deepak could not find them. She was told that her friends that left earlier were already at a party and Joran would take her there when C and C closed and then afterwards take her back to the hotel.
The four left C and C’s and headed towards the Lighthouse. On the way they went to a secluded road near the Marriot where Joran helps Natalee out of Deepak’s car. The Kalpoes leave, because there are no girls for them. The friends had left C and C’s earlier then Natalee.
As Deepak pulls away there is a security guard dressed in black. Remember he added that to the story. Geoff could have had his VCB security uniform on and he and Joran placed a drugged and injured Natalee in his pick up.
They then proceed to take Natalee to where they will use her at the party. By this time Natalee realizes she is in trouble but then the roofi kicks in and she falls asleep on the way towards the Lighthouse (MALMOK)(?) Now where is this other party. How about Koen’s house.
Waiting there are Koen, Sander, Freddy, Max Arends Guido some of the local girls and girl friends and look who shows up but Joran’s girlfriend Loco Stef. Natalee enters the party half drugged half drunk. Joran throws her on a bed. Some how she gets Sander’s phone and gets off; “I don’t even know these people”. Of course not she expected to see her girl friends there; but they were back at the hotel.
They take Natalee as she is coming in and out of consciousness from the choke hold administered by Guido. He knows just how to do “Something Dreaming”
While this is on going Freddy is video taping everything.
From Deepak’s email. “We heard a lot of false alarms that she was dead, she was seen with two guys, her hair is cut and is red now.
Who killed Natalee? IMO someone who is just the opposite of Natalee’s blue eyes and blond hair.
Out of jealousy for Joran having sex with Natalee; willingly or not; IMO: Stef cuts Natalee’s hair and maybe stabs her with the scissors or hits her with something.
Her hair is now red from blood stains.
She is loaded in the back of Geoff’s pickup on a mattress from the Gottenbos. Remember there was no inclination that a crime happened there so the Gottenbos home would not be searched. Remember Alexander, Koen’s father would not permit the police to requestion Koen. Sander claims his phone was stolen so he would not have to account for Natalee’s cry for help. The Gottenbos had no plans to but they sure got off the island fast. Remember the wife even had a dress shop. Remember Williem von Cromvoirt also sold his business and left the island. Paulus being in the legal system has no reason to leave because he is untouchable! Some how Van der Straaten sees a dead Natalee; Maybe he was called by Alexander before they took Natalee away.
Geoff and Joran place Natalee in Geoffs pickup and drop Natalee into a mine shaft. They then want to distance themselves from the scene. On the way to Logo Colony and Grapefield Beach they stop in Santa Cruz and Joran calls home. They continue to San Nicolas and get rid of the shirt, glasses, foam and bottle of cleaning fluid. Geoff drops Joran off at school and he sleeps there while Geoff drops off the mattress at Grapefield Beach and returns home to Paradera.
Shortly there after Geoff gets rid of his pickup and has a walk along the beach with another girl from C and C’s. Geoff notices the VCB and when Natalee’s name is mention; he immediately shuts up and takes the girl back to her hotel and leaves.
Basically you have a drugged injured girl; kidnapped and taken to the home of a Dutch Nataional; was raped and may have been mutilated by a jealous girlfriend and her body disposed of down a mine shaft.

“This (kidnapping a drugged tourist) has happened at least twenty times before and nothing ever went wrong. Most of the time they take the girl back to her hotel (Satish) to have sex with the incapacitated tourist in a hotel room (Joran).

If this is what happened how could Aruba resolve this case?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

amoebas

Sumpin' just ain't right.  In retrotpsect, sounds like a bunch of lying liars, all of whom are lying for their lying liar agendas.

Dennis - Well, a week ago, the Holloway case was in Peter R. De Vries his programm.
Peter and another crime reports have just make crime reports about the Holloway case, in RTL Boulevard.
But about that all is nothing new. I early had post what all the crime reports had tell about the Holloway case.

Just wanted to bid everyone au revoir for the day.  Grandson and son participating in Christmas musical at church this evening, and I gotta run in order to be there on time.

 "The wrong shall fail and right prevail with peace on earth,good will to men".

thank you, ma'am, i'll dig them up.  have a great day.
dennisintn

You are welcome, but what does this mean; ma'am?
And btw, thanks have a great day too.

Just got back from the store and I've watched the video.  I didn't see him remove chips from the table but I'll watch again.

Hey Silverfox,

I'm very interested in the Posner cases that Smid has been involved in.  Where can this information be found?  Thanks.