Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Please post and discuss information regarding the search in this thread.

I think he is looking for all the references as to where she may be...without actual discussion...maybe I am wrong.
I will start...

http://www.aruba-bb.com/viewforum.php?f=14
bakabl wrote:
Frist Im vary sorry to hear of the vary sad case of Natalee Holloway in such a wonderful place like Aruba but it could happen anywere at any time. There are a few questions that need to be asked of the two men that the FBI are questioning - 1st ask them about the drink that was given to Natalee around 3:15am Aruba Time the morring Natalee never retyrn to her hotel and ask them about what the drug was in the drink that Natalee drunk without her knowing. 2nd ask them about the boat and the 2-1/2 mile trip they took.

They should break dowm and tell the truth about are were Natalee can be found.

 Another wiretap investigation led to over one hundred arrests, as law enforcement dismantled an international drug distribution ring that was responsible for vast quantities of heroin and cocaine coming into the United States from Columbia through Aruba. Electronic surveillance has allowed us to take cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine, and many other dangerous drugs off our streets and away from our children.
http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/parskyTestimony061604.htm

It won't hurt to have some discussion here.  Most of the discussion will be in the NH thread but a direct answer to one of the links provided would be helpful here.

 Re: Natalee Case Discussion #703 12/8/2007
« Reply #485 on: December 09, 2007, 08:39:37 PM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Refer to the line in BOLD:

The examining magistrate says that it’s true that the current dossier of the two suspects contains serious ‘objections’ against them, but not enough to keep them longer in custody.  Custody based on the current evidence is not allowed.  This evidence was the wiping out of traces of a crime scene and the spiriting away of a body, said a spokesperson of the OM. The two brothers remain suspects of voluntary manslaughter or in any case, serious bodily harm that resulted in the death of Natalee Holloway.   

Now the post:
 http://joranvandersloot.blogspot.com/
8:41 pm  anonymous said...
It was high tide and sea water covering the beach slope, Koen's boat stayed out at a distance in the water and he didn't want the boat got stuck in the beach sand dunes. Joran didn't want his shoes get wet and he took them off. He and Deepak together carried Natalee's body and walking through the water towards Koen's boat where Koen kept the boat's motor running and positioning, it was high tide and high wind, the sea waves were strong and rough. For some unknown reasons Joran got some blood into his shoes when the suspects were trying to fit Natalee's body into the
crap cage. They might have to do some cuttings of the body in order to get all the body parts into the cage. The cage was not a coffin shape, it was square in shape, not long enough to fit a body of 5'4. So Joran put his bloody shoes into the square crab cage as well. Together the suspects dropped cage to the deepsea bottom and got rid of the forensic evidence.[b/] If Tim Miller can locate the crab cage, Joran's shoes are there. Joran is the murderer.

MATCHES.... Someone knew what happened,...This needs to be looked  into again, now that the Prosecution has given their stance.

O ughh...the above post was suppose to have Posted by ELAINE @ SM

Is the ship out there searching now?   

Ship should arrive Wed.

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

UPDATE: 11-Dec, 2007: 0900 est - The Persistence is delayed for it's last long leg of the voyage to Aruba. It is scheduled to arrive on Saturday thanks to Tropical Storm Olga.
http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/flt/t1/sloop-wv.html
 

A blogsite, The Search for Natalee Holloway, has been set up.

The purpose of this blog is to give an inside look into the search for Natalee Holloway, offshore Aruba, Dec-2007. All writings are from a geophysical engineer and marine geologist on board the search vessel R/V Persistence. All quotes are direct quotes. All information in this site is reviewed for content and accuracy. This site will be updated daily until the search is terminated.

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/ (http://nholloway.blogspot.com/)

Lousw,

Beautiful poem.

Greetings,

If possible... could we also compile any information on previous ocean searches within this thread? 

I heard a rumor yesterday about a recent ocean search by a group of "non-Americans" conducted or published about a month ago.  I'd like to verify that this is just a rumor or poor reporting.  Supposedly, there were even pictures of the boat and they believed the searchers to be Dutch.  If true, I don't have a clue who was involved and I would really like to.

Thanks and regards to all,
Kyle

Kyle - I haven't heard of anything recent.  I know a few months back there was a psychic that was going to do a ocean search but I believe that was called off.  I'll see if I can find anything on that.  He was non-american if I remember correctly.

Kyle...here is a bit from 2005 from America's Most Wanted web site.

Pictures here too!
http://www.amw.com/features/feature_story_detail.cfm?id=832

From Aug. 2005 ...Scared Monkeys
Divers Search For Natalee Holloway off Aruba’s East Coast
 
About eight volunteer divers explored waters off Aruba’s east coast Sunday searching for Natalee Holloway. The divers were searching waters about one mile from a beach near the Holiday Inn where Holloway stayed.

(CBS/AP) Volunteer divers explored waters off Aruba’s east coast Sunday, hoping to find clues in the disappearance of missing U.S. teen Natalee Holloway.


At least eight divers volunteered to search waters about one mile from a beach near the Holiday Inn where Holloway stayed during a vacation to celebrate her high school graduation, said Eduardo Mansur, co-founder of the Aruba Search and Rescue Foundation.

Although the waters have been searched before, the group claims a radar machine invented by an American has detected human bones in the area. The inventor, Joe Walker, came to Aruba to help in the search but is currently off the island, Mansur said.

Extensive searches have produced no trace of Holloway.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/08/28/divers-search-for-natalee-of-the-aruban-coast/

Could it be related to this story from October, 2007 posted in both the Aruban newspapers and on ScaredMonkeys front page? 

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/10/20/aruba-skeleton-found-by-tourists-was-remains-of-shipwrecked-sailor-from-1886-that-was-fast/

Kyle if I am not mistaken Jossy Mansur did a water search of his own a few months ago, someone like Tim may want to go ove to talk with Jossy about that.  I also know jossy did a search in april of last year, off the North side by the fallen Natural Bridge "caves" to search for a blue tarp that was hanging on one of the cliffs.  They didn't retrieve the tarp, don't know if it's still there or not.  I will write to Jossy to see if he can give me some info on the search.  I wont be home till after 10pm here, dont forget your time change there in aruba.  :)

Ocean -

Back in 2006 a person who does "remote viewing" was going to go to Aruba to search the waters near the refinery. 

http://www.rvcommunity.net/viewtopic.php?t=1648&highlight=aruba&sid=a1bcbe98d1ca1172bfb831122edbfc0f

His name is Major Ed Dames.  He never did go and posted this reason why:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/EdDames.jpg)

OK, Jossy says they did a land search, but I am thinking you already know this right?  Yes.....Jossy told me, and good luck!

Maybe Klaas can post a picture of where Ed dames was going to search next to the wall by the refinery too.

Jossy was going to search in September:

http://mike-connectingthedots.blogspot.com/2007/09/if-they-wont-do-it-then-we-will.html

Sunday, September 30, 2007
“If They Won’t Do It, Then We Will!”
DIARIO has made the decision to perform a water search for Natalee Holloway at their expense. At this time necessary equipment is still being gathered, but the search should commence within the next several days. I’ve been promised a day by day report detailing each event surrounding this latest endeavor.

Way to go Jossy! It has become abundantly clear no one else is willing to make this effort. We applaud your persistence!

Update: We have a pretty good recent lead to go on. Our searches start by mid week, around Wednesday or Thursday. There is a lot of preparatory work to be done before we send the boat out with the necessary divers and equipment. We as Arubans do not need any kind of permit for the activity we are to embark on. That makes it easier.

I will let you know as soon as we are ready to embark on the first search to a spot we have mapped on the ocean.

Update II: So far...

... a lot of disappointments. It seems that the reading taken over a year ago of a specific target are no longer valid. It was explained to me that the pinpointed target has moved due to underwater currents, sand shifts, recent and past bad oceanic conditions created by the passing hurricanes to the north of the island, close to where the target was located, etc.) and has not been relocated yet in its new (and disintegrated) presence. However, I have asked them to try to pinpoint at least a part (the largest possible) of the target and to go for it, but they said it would take time and it makes the search more indefinite as far as location is concerned. The search, therefore, will take time before it can proceed. I will keep you posted on everything, good and bad, related to the search, and when it can be finally done with whatever percentages of success may exist.

This seems to have been the characteristics of this case: one disappointment after another! How can so many factors combine to make a simple case so difficult to solve? Beats me!

This is the area near the refinery they were going to search.  The search to my knowledge never happened:

(http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m174/RemoteViewing/Holloway090306a.jpg)

***SPECIAL NOTICE***
Tuesday, 18-Dec - 1500 hrs:
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/ (http://nholloway.blogspot.com/)

Sat. 22-Dec- 1110 hrs
The Persistence awakes after a few hour much-deserved nap. The crew diligently toss the lines and she's free of the dock. Leaving the port facility, the seas are calm and the trade winds are pleasant and tropical. The occasional cumulus cloud appear cartoon-like. One small cloud in the distance is dumping rain on a few unfortunate people. I can just imagine what they're thinking.. "why me". The rain has a tendency of seeking us all out. Today over the Persistence, the sun is shining bright.

"We've gridded a 22 sq. mile area with bathymetry and will cover it again with this sonar system and magnetometer... Yes. We will find her if she's out there." -John Silvetti (1102 hrs, 22-Dec).

The search area we already covered by bathymetry and began surveying with side scan and magnetometer is the size of Manhattan.

"I believe she's been out here for over the last two years but we didn't have the resources and technology to find her until now. We're blessed to have these resources. Now, hopefully we'll have a wonderful Christmas present for Dave and Beth". - Tim Miller (1108 hrs, 22-Dec).

what a fantastic bunch of UN-SELFISH people on this ship.

makes you happy to be a a human or a robots, something i can not say about the people that caused this whole mess.

you have two totally differnet types of people

1. givers

2. takers

these people are givers

Merry Christmas to you, Robots!

.....



http://nholloway.blogspot.com/


Update: Sat. 22-Dec - 2035 hrs
The seas calmed throughout the evening. The progress we're making is satisfying. Once again, we will work through the night. At night, the seas tend to be calmer and it's easier to focus on the work without being able to see the beach. The sunset was beautiful this evening. ROV pilot Brandon Hernandez hurried out to the back deck of the Persistence to take the photo for the blog. At the same instance he snapped the picture, a swell washed across the back deck, soaking him half way up his shins. Brandon, now the world will know you by this noble photographic cause.

We came across another unknown wreck today, an approximately 50ft long catamaran.

Update: Sun. 23-Dec -0130 hrs

The seas are calm and the moon is brilliant on the last survey line of the night. Murphy's Law always applies offshore. Midway through the survey line, the boat suddenly veers off course to avoid a small ~16ft wooden fishing boat anchored near the line. We hold our breath and bring in the sonar and magnetometer as fast as the winches allow. On the telemetry screens, both sensors suddenly go crazy. We caught the anchor line of the fishing boat with the sonar and magnetometer. The Persistence immediately comes all-stop as we cautiously bring in the gear. Fortunately for us and the fishermen, our reaction time was swift. We didn't give the fishermen much of a ride and no one was hurt. After a careful inspection, we determined that miraculously none of the gear was even slightly damaged in the collision. After the encounter was over, we thanked the fishermen for their patience and the small wooden fishing boat and Persistence went their separate ways into the moonlit night.

Please send this info, this was sent to me by a girl who says she can see where Natalee is I'm just passing this on





 I am not one to jump into information like this so fast.  The boat I see is a ‘sail boat,’ probable sunk just within the last few years.

Off a small land area that is swimmable to a main shore but far.  Almost private property if that is possible in the ocean.

Finding her will not happen, finding pieces might I am sorry if that is too realistic,.

.  Is she missing a bag or purse or back pack, luggage, bigger then smaller, that you will find asap.

Good luck, I feel nothing but compassion and love for the family.

 

If something comes to light about the man with the DARKEST hair, and his comments on his ‘high and mighty’ status.. might lead you to this area that I see.

I am not going to put any more into this unless you ask

Blonde,

I got that message to the  guys out on the boat.

done  -ty

I just found this email, can you pass it on , thanks  carpe
 
 I met a girl tonight who see's dead people her name is Rebecca she help the FBI and police find missing people.
She calls her self spiritaul contact.
I told her that I'm looking for Natalee she started talking fast and sweeting.
She said she was in a black bag near that boat near an island with nine trees two were different
She is caught up in a back and forth thing near a sunk boat  the boat is under the water and part of it you can see it's white .
 

Blonde, I hope this person continues to tell us what she sees.

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

Update: Thurs 26-Dec 1230 hrs
Murphy's Law always applies offshore. After acquiring data all day in sustained 35kt winds and strong cross currents, the night was going rather smooth. In about 450 ft of water and towing 20 ft off the bottom, the magnetometer started to tow differently. The operator (Kent) immediately recognized we had a snag. We brought in the towfish to find a mass of derelict fishing gear snagged on the acoustic beacon. The beacon was fastened to the tow cable above the magnetometer only by two small stainless steel hose clamps. Despite the massive strain on the beacon, it survived without any damage.

Great video by Kyle dedicated to Natalee!

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/12/viii-day-1-side-scan-sonar-search.html

Thanks for posting that, Carpe!  That is one of my all time favorite songs.  God bless those guys, how awesome they are! 

That is very touching. Keep praying Monkeys.

I just watched that video.  All I can say is...wow!  For some reason that word is all I can say when it comes to the unselfish people on this ship.  I am truly amazed by all this. WOW!

Same here Lala's.  I am speechless!   There are no words to describe what that crew is doing and with such selfless intentions.  Not only did i feel like i was there,  I WISH I was there to do anything, any little thing to make there trip more comfortable, since I don't have the skills and knowledge they have.   What awesome people they are.   They will be truly blessed.  And thank you for the video, it was touching and heartfelt.  I not only pray for there success for Natalee's return, but for there trip to not be in vain!

All I can say is everyone on that boat is

God Bless them all.... and I  mean that in the most heartfelt way!!!

Update: Fri Dec-28 2030 hrs

The USBL calibrations are completed. The ROV test dive will proceed in the morning. If successful, the first dive on targets will follow.

http://www.nholloway.blogspot.com/

Just checking in with great interest and a full heart for the effort being made to find Natalee! Our prayers and hopes are with you!

My thoughts and prayers are with you Persistence!  I'm hoping that no news today means good news.  Praying that all is going well and that you are all safe.  Thanks again for all you are doing!

Update

Mon 31-Dec - 1022hrs

The Persistence spent yesterday performing multiple dives with the ROV. The purpose of the dives is for collecting video of each sonar target. Typically, the sonar target is quickly identified and ruled out from the ROV video. The ROV operations lasted until dusk, where we resumed sonar survey operations through the night. Today, we are performing more ROV dives on targets of potential interest.

http://nholloway.blogspot.com

Guess I got my hopes up too that no news yesterday was good news...praying for a miracle TODAY! :smt051

I've wondered every day if we'd hear that the crew found Natalee. I just hope that they are successful. No one could work any harder than they are, to help Natalee and her family. I think their disappointment will be profound if they can't locate her.
But I'm praying that they do.

If they do find her I don't think they would announce it on the blog.  For the obvious reasons of who can lay claim to the remains.

Update:

Tues 01-Jan - 0032 hrs New Year's Day

"Come, wander with me she said into regions yet untrod. Read with me what is still unread in the manuscript of God." - Longfellow
The words return to me as they did in Louisiana almost a month ago. The assembling swaths of sonar data reveal the seabed to us as if it were a scroll from a mighty manuscript written by a mighty hand. The numerous ROV dives are the Rosetta Stone for reading the great manuscript.

The seabed tells a different tale at every scale of observation. The submarine terrain appears tired, bent, and worn- a stark yet welcomed contrast to our jagged expectations. The seabed is deeply pitted, torn, and scarred. It cryptically cries out in past neglect, ruin, and abandon. Sparkling coral and happy creatures thrive in the shallows blissfully unaware of the decay of their heritage laying just out beyond the reef. The water deepens and color fades to grey where predators roam. Deeper still, the seabed appears lifeless and void. As the ROV touches down onto the deep seafloor, a benthic nephloid cloud erupts, engulfing the remote intruder. As the silt settles in the darkness, polycheate worms withdraw into their delicate burrows. Now under immense pressure, the ROV is in total solitude, stillness, and cold. There is no margin for failure in the ocean. The seafloor speaks of past failure, where grim reminders of the lost and broken abound. It is a relief to be back on board the Persistence in relative safety.

The Persistence is amid uncovering the final planned quadrant of the search area. Once completed and ROV ground-truthed, we will assemble the data and read from the last scroll in this mighty manuscript.

http://www.nholloway.blogspot.com/

You're right....we won't know it immediately. But we will as soon as it's safe. And we have the actual searchers telling the story here, so it's a fascinating way to read about it.

I don't know who is doing the writing on the search blog, but they are the kind of people I would like to know. That quote by Longfellow is so, I don't even know what, it gave me chills. I know that these ppl are professional and mostly technicians, but they are also really good writers and have so much heart and empathy. When the search is over, no matter how it turns out, I would like to hear more from them. Their desciptions are poetic. 

IF anything is found, they must have developed protocols for any event.
I am just content knowing that these particular ppl are doing the search and the rest is up to God. 

Just checking in to say that my thoughts are with the crew of the Persistence and with the Holloway family. As you guys are working so diligently, we are here trying to find a way that you might know how in awe we are of your efforts.

May the meditations of our hearts find the right wind to bring our hope and gratitude to you on Natalee's behalf!

To all the ppl on the ship working such long hours to give closure to Natalees family, my heart is over whelmed....trying to bring Natalee home, in spite of it being the Holidays...God bless you. Whether or not your mission is sucessful, it will be anyway, just knowing how much you all care. Mere words are not enough to say how I feel, but I hope you do know. May Jesus's Angels stay with you and keep you safe.

Hi Kyle,

I also wanted to thank you and the entire team for what you guys are doing and the sacrafices you have made to help Natalee and her Family.

Something has been in the back of my mind for 30+ months now and I wanted to make sure you were aware of it. After Natalee dissapeared there was a bloody Mattress that appeared in Grapefield Beach it was quickly determined that it was not related to Natalee and that it was saturated and soaked in Dogs Blood. We know that Joran killed his own dog in the past so there may be a connection.

Also there was a VCB Shirt,Styraphone with teeth marks,Sunglasses and "Suspicious"materials inside a lysol bottle found in the colony area also right after Natalee dissapeared. It has been rumored and reported that the security shirt had dna on it and is related to this case and the arrest of GVC.

I just wanted to make sure you were aware of these two findings from early june 2005 on the southern part of the island. Wish you the best of luck and I will continue to be watching closely. Thanks again!!

KYLE THIS WEBSITE HAS A GOOD EXPLAINATION OF WHAT TOOK PLACE AND WHEN AND HOW


IN THE FACE OF EVIL


What was going on between 7:00 pm and 8:30 pm?

We believe this is when Paulus and Joran took Miss Holloway's remains out to sea on the Gottenbos boat. Here Joran sets himself up to be highly visible that night after 8:00 pm .


Part 3 detailed the most likely movements of Paulus van der Sloot during this time, and here now are Joran's activities for this timeframe.

JORAN SAYS TENNIS LESSON ENDED AT 7:00, HE SHOWERED AND THEN CALLED ANDRE ANDRE AGREES TO MEET HIM AT 8:00 AT THE WYNDHAM

Approximately 19.00 pm, I was ready with playing tennis. I showered in the clubhouse. After I had finised showering I got dressed. Then I called "Andre". We had agreed that we would meet at the Wyndham Hotel at approximately 20.00 pm to play poker.
JVDS 6-14

JORAN SAYS HE ALSO CALLS GUIDO AND ASKS HIM TO GO TO THE WYNDHAM GUIDO DECLINES SAYING HE HAS TO WORK, BUT MIGHT COME LATER

Approximately 19.00 pm, I was ready with playing tennis. I had then also called Guido. Guido had told me that he had to go to work. He would come later and try to enter the tournament for half time
JVDS 6-14

According to Paulus, this conversation took place in person, not over the phone. What then was the true nature of this phone call from Joran to Paulus at around 7:00 pm?

Giving confirmation that the boat was at the launch and ready to go?

JORAN SAYS HE THEN CALLED PAULUS TO ASK PERMISSION TO GO TO THE WYNDHAM TO GAMBLE

Approximately 19.00 pm, I was ready with playing tennis. I showered in the clubhouse. After I had finised showering I got dressed. I had also called my father and asked if I could play poker at the Wyndham Casino. My father gave me permission.
JVDS 6-14

Then we have Joran claiming to have been bouncing from one casino to the next for the hour of 7:00 - 8:00 pm



http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/2007/10/in-face-of-evil-may-30-2005_19.html

TIMELINE FOR KYLE:


http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/search?q=In+the+Face+of+Evil

Kyle, and Tim,
I am thinking while you are there in, and around Aruba, can someone get Jossy to point you out the rocks in the dunes and get some chips from them to DNA them?  I know it all sounds crazy, but I am one of those people that have the theory that the body that was found there wasn't one of which was there for a year.  And Dave also feels the same way.  heres some links to where you can find the rocks. 
Drive to the California light house and as you are looking at the lighthouse, and it is on your upper left, you will find a place where horses are used to be tied up, look down into the dunes for the following picture of the rocks.  Look for the light post for bearings.  Parts of those rocks need to be DNA'd.
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/gummy_2006/ScreenHunter_1032.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/gummy_2006/backgrndrocks7.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/gummy_2006/dunescollage.jpg
The videos to look at for reference points
http://arubassilence.bravehost.com/chicago.html
Also chips of this basin would be a good start.  it is across the road from the fishermans huts
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/gummy_2006/6.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/gummy_2006/oldnew.jpg

Kath

Update: 05-Jan- 0025 hrs

The wind and seas have not let up at all throughout day and night. Working in the rough conditions is taking its toll on some of the crew. Regardless, spirits and hope remain high as we push onwards. Working in side-seas proved unrealistic. The last resort is to dead-head straight into the seas without recording and acquire data with the swells moving with the vessel. Although time consuming, at least production is maintained even though it is at half the rate.

Many have confused adventure with inconvenience, trading the provocative for status quo. I believe exploration both in terms of our surroundings and within ourselves is the essence of human spirit. When denied, we're left feeling isolated and unknown. When we have the courage to search these depths, we learn the most about who we are and hopefully a thing or two about each other and our surroundings.

http://www.nholloway.blogspot.com/

Hi Kyle,
I'm posting any disposal at sea theory/timeline that I can find as I find them.  I hope I can find something that will help.  We appreciate all of your hard work and dedication to finding Natalee.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12040436/
Snip:
“But what if Natalee was not buried, but somehow dropped in the water off the lighthouse?  Dompig suggests that tests have been conducted that show a body dumped in the ocean surrounding the island would float back to shore.  But there has been no discussion as to what would happen to a body if it was weighted down.  Additionally, Dompig’s says that every local boat that was in the water the night Natalee disappeared has been accounted for.  Anyway, any boat that went out two miles or more, something that many find hard to believe.” Email Clint at CVZ@msnbc.com

Hodges Thoughtprint Timeline link:
http://forensicthoughtprints.com/natalee-holloway-watery-grave.html

I came across this site and scanned it for information about disposal at sea, may not be helpful but eerie for sure.... :shock:

http://revelation13.net/KingJames2c.html

Better views

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/gummy_2006/lookingfromlighthouse.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/kath8700/arurocks.gif
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/kath8700/arurocks1.gif

Not sure about this site either Kyle but here it is....

{{removed link - this site and person is very anti Natalee and family}}

http://arubanboycott.blogspot.com/2007/10/what-does-art-wood-know-what-will-be.html

OE,

Another person besides the Gottenbo's that had a boat is Lorenzo Van Rijn. He was questioned at least twice in the beginning of the case and several people from Aruba said he was involved in the very beginning before the dis-information campaign went into full gear. It is rumored that he is close to the Van Der Sloots and perhaps even related. Most everything about him was only discussed on the blogs and not MSM and he was reportedly arrested as a witness and not a suspect,so much speculation and debate.  He is either 100% Mis-Information or is involved in some way. I believe he is involved and so do many others. Nobody is certain what his involvement may be if any but it's possible he helped in getting rid of Natalee.

There is a thread just on him from post's mostly from Arubans in June/July 2005. I do not want top steer you in the wrong direction but much of what we heard about him became true and the rest is still to be determined. Most of the online researchers/bloggers here that have followed this case since the very beginning think he may be involved in some way. This thread wont tell you where Natalee is,it just explains why so many are suspicious of his involvement. It was reported/rumored that his boat and mothers house were searched in the beginning.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1291.0

If I were searching for Natalee I would definetly keep in mind Savaneta,Grapefield Beach and the Colony Area a few miles out if nothing panned out on the NW and NE tip of the island. As i posted previously,very suspicious items were found in those areas on June 5th and 6th 2005. The Grapefield Beach bloody mattress was probably left there because it was in a desolate area and not a launch area. The Colony area where the security shirt was found and a few miles out to sea from where Lorenzo launches his boat,would be the two areas I would search after the Northern tip of the island.

Article on items found in colony area a week after NH went missing
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/Evidencefoundincolony.jpg

Lorenzo is said to have a cigarette boat and this area would be the closest to his home which is just a bit inland of the savaneta coast.
(http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/4731/savanetaep3.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

oceanexploration ... when the observation of the landfill witness is taken into consideration ... is it possible ... if Natalee Holloway was taken out to sea ... the area could have been the east side of the Island and ... not on the morning or evening of the day she went missing?

May God bless the efforts of all those on the Persistence.

Janet

+++++++++++++++++++

ON THE MORNING OF MAY 30, 2005 ... A DECEASED NATALEE IS PLACED IN A WHITE PICKUP.

Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
July 29, 2005

GRACE: OK. Jossy, is there any way to tie in a white pick-up to this scenario?
 
MANSUR: Yes, ma`am, because there`s another witness that, before that, told someone that works at the hotels that he saw a white pick-up over there by the Holiday Inn, in which three persons were also in, all of them male, carrying what looked like the body of a girl, putting it in the back of the white pick-up and driving away with it.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/29/ng.01.html


ON THE MORNING OF MAY 30, 2005 ... THERE IS A RUMORED 6:30 AM CALL FROM ONE OF THE SUSPECTS CELL IN THE SANTA LUCIA AREA OF THE ISLAND AND ... JORAN IS ALLEGEDLY PICKED UP BY THE SCHOOL BUS NEAR THE HOME OF LORENZO VAN RIJN.

Thursday, June 16, 2005 at 04:53 AM in Natalee Holloway | Permalink | Comments (270) | TrackBack (2)

On Natalee's Yahoo forum there there is a report that a helicopter is searching Santa Lucia area because according to the cell phone records of one of the three suspects there was a call in the Santa Lucia area at 6:30 am the morning Natalee was to have met up with the group to leave for airport.
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/week24/


Greta Van Susteren
On the Record w/ Greta
July 3, 2005
 
SUSTEREN: .... I am also curious whether Paul van der Sloot used his phone between midnight and 7 a.m. on May 30. He told me no... he told the Dutch TV correspondent on camera no... but after the interview with the Dutch TV correspondent, he pulled him aside and said maybe he did make a call and that he was not sure.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161474,00.html


Dave Holloway
Question and Answer Chat - BFN
January 23, 2006

14. Why was the school bus driver called the next morning and told to pick up Joran at Lorenzo's house?
 
DAVE: Joran was allegedly dropped off at a bus stop on the main highway. The bus driver had not made it there yet and saved Paulus about 30 minutes. Lorenzo's house was nearby.
http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=2256.0


ON JUNE 1, 2005 ... NATALEE'S REMAINS ARE OBSERVED BY JUNIOR BEING TAKEN FROM A WHITE PICKUP AND PLACED IN THE LANDFILL.

Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
July 29, 2005

MANSUR: … But it`s very important to note that the witness on the beach by the Holiday Inn has absolutely no knowledge of the witness over there to the east side of the island by the landfill or dump. They don't know each other, but still they give the same description of the same white pick-up.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/29/ng.01.html


Susan Candiotti - Cnn Correspondent
NANCY GRACE
July 29, 2005
 
CANDIOTTI:his same witness claims to have told police that he saw a vehicle and was able to provide a tag number to police. I am told that this is a registered car in Aruba, but I can`t tell you more than that.
 

JUNIOR CONVEYS HIS OBSERVATION TO HIS BROTHER WHO ... ON JUNE 3, 2005 ... CONVEYS THE ACCOUNT TO THE ARUBAN AUTHORITIES.

Tim Miller
CBS NEWS
July 30, 2005

The witness told his brother what he saw soon afterward, and the brother told police, he said.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/31/world/main712950.shtml?source=search_story


Edwin Comenencia
Associated Press
August 1, 2005

Police spokesman Edwin Comenencia said police searched the landfill after receiving the tip days after Holloway's disappearance May 30th, but found nothing.
http://www.wtvynews4.com/home/headlines/1756907.html


COULD JUNIOR'S OBSERVATION IMPLIES THAT THE "POWERS THAT BE" IN THE COVERUP REMOVED NATALEE'S REMAINS FROM THE LANDFILL AND ... SHE WAS BURIED OR ... TAKEN OUT TO SEA OR ... BOTH.

Tim Miller
RED - SCARED MONKEYS
July 24, 2005

RED:  There have been reports that a shallow grave was discovered in the area of Boca Tortuga, on the eastern part of the island. There are also reports that cell-phone calls made by Joran earlyin the morning came from a location on the eastern side of the island. It seems plausible that thisarea could yield more clues

TIM MILLER:  We found a site that we feel as though was a possible gravesite. Our thoughts are that Natalee may have been buried in that hole for 1 or 2 days then moved. We have information that the cell phones were possibly being used in that area
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/07/24/interview-transcript-with-tim-miller-july-24th-2005/


Dave Holloway
NANCY GRACE
April 24, 2006

GRACE: Well, Dave Holloway, aren`t there logs and isn`t there surveillance in place in Aruba of all the ships that go out of the tiny island, even at night?

HOLLOWAY: Well, there is but on one of those nights, I think it was June the 7th or June the 8th, the electricity went out on the island for about two hours so you wonder if that would have been the prime opportunity to do it. Small boats, I don`t think, can be picked up as well as the big ones.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/24/ng.01.html

OE,
I've spent hours reading in various forums (man, am I thankful for this website!) trying to scan for any posts regarding her being taken out to sea and just didn't find anything worth sending.  There are some really sick people in this world....  An anonymous poster on the Joren Van Der Sloot Blog said that there were five in the boat including Natalee and that "Koen and Cores were familiar the coastal waters surrounding Aruba and knew what they were doing. Cores picked the deepest drop off point which was between the lighthouse and the Marriot Resort about five miles offshore."  I'm not going to post the rest but you can read it there if your interested.  I also spent some time at Brian's Predictions and a couple of other psychic sites.  Brian's caught my interest because some of the things in his drawings can be connected to the case be he believes she's alive in Columbia with JJ and has a baby, he believes possibly in the same place Amy Bradley was taken.  Although a couple of the psychics believe she is not alive, I didn't find anything that gives a clue as to what area to search in. I was a little too spooked to listen to the backwards recordings at the "coffeepot" website, I was actually afraid at that point of what I might hear :lol:  I'm sorry I couldn't find much for you this evening, but I will try again tomorrow.   I hope that you and the crew get some rest and that the seas are calmer for you tomorrow.  Thanks again for all you guys are doing, there aren't words to express how much we truly appreciate your efforts. 

oceanexplorer

I have compiled a paper with backup sources as well as my personal take on Junior ... the land landfill witness ... which I would be willing to share upon request.

Please ... let me know it you want me to submit this paper in a post.

How are the water conditions today?  I cannot comprehend how all of you on the Persistence are not seasick 24/7.

Take care ... my continued prayers are with the crew in this huge undertaking to bring Natalee' remains home to her family ... her country.

Janet

X. Persistence

Update: 05-Jan-1610 hrs
The Persistence arrived dockside at 0500 hrs after a long night offshore. A few hours sitting still at the dock is revitalizing for a few of the beleaguered crew. Outside, the winds are unrelenting and whip the sea into angry white caps which crash onto the protective reef skirting the harbor. Even the heartiest seabirds have taken cover. The tourist submersible Atlantis II cancels its evening tour in lieu of being forced backwards by the driving currents. Inside, the Persistence is bustling with the daily chores of living on board a boat. With a whistle and a rumble, the twin Diesels comes alive without complaint. Once they’re warm, the lines are tossed and we’re off.

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

I am not aware of the man with the Darkest Hair and his comments,can you give us more of a clue who this is?

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/06/18/what-did-the-aruba-park-ranger-pick-up-at-boca-tortuga-area-fabric-that-matched-natalees-top/

What did the Aruba Park Ranger pick up at Boca Tortuga area? Fabric that matched Natalee’s Top?
 
What ever happened to this material? Why didn’t the media camera man take a close up of what so closely resembled the green fabric of Natalee’s top? One would have thought that they would have zoomed right in to see what had been collected.

On Sunday, July 17, 2005 the park rangers found the duct tape with long blonde hair in the Boca Tortuga area of Aruba. A park ranger being video’d walking around picks up a piece of fabric that matches Natalee’s top.

The question still remains today, what ever happened to this evidence that was collected? We also need to remember that this material that was found washed ashore following the hurricanes that took place last summer. It is highly possibly that the material washed ashore from another location on the island or from out at sea.

+++++++++++

View images at:
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/06/18/what-did-the-aruba-park-ranger-pick-up-at-boca-tortuga-area-fabric-that-matched-natalees-top/

THIS WAS ALL SHE TOLD ME, MY THOUGHTS WERE DEEPAK

http://www.underworldtales.com/aruba.htm
snips:
Flash visions are where I see only glimpses of something and usually through symbols only, a very different form of channeling, but sometimes it can reveal important things, and I believe that my Flash visions of the Holloway case were revealing. 

"Any attempts that I've made to connect during the past few weeks have not been successful.  Once, I partially connected and experienced something strange.  I saw only a light turquoise blue before me and felt intensely cold, and as I moved toward this coldness, it only became more intense until it was unbearable.  The connection broke.  Another time I saw  turquoise blue again, as if I were under water.  Does this mean that Natalee is under water?  I'm not sure.  I've felt all along that she's buried somewhere on the land, and I even saw sand. Of course, and I hate to say this, it's possible that she's not in just one place.  This confusion could also stem from the possibility that the body has been moved.  This underwater area did have a cave-like look, but I don't think it was a cave, and I didn't see a trace of Natalee in it.  Could the water hold another clue?  Perhaps. In a couple of days, I'll try to connect again.

A reader wrote in with this message: "Check out the area between Asahi Beach and Malmok beach as a place that they may placed her." The reader doesn't specify why he believes the body is there. I've requested more information from him. In response, he wrote back: "As per my dowsing, I feel that she may be there.

Another reader wrote:
 In my vision, she is also dead. This is what I saw....She was on the beach and "they" thought she was dead, so they hid the body in a dark place. I see something that looks like the bottom of a pan with bolts around it. Maybe a water main or something. She awakes and knows something is wrong. She breaks off her ankle bracelet with her other foot to leave a clue. During this time she is thinking sharply. I see her hand reaching out to scratch a message but she fall unconscious again. Then the vision goes to pink flags. Like on a boat. And I see a dab of purple, like a dogwood blossom. The vision changes again. I see shaved ice, I feel cold and I smell a strong odor of seafood. I think her body is on a boat. Well, that was my vision.   

A reliable friend sent me this a few hours ago...thought you might find this interesting.  I have read it before, but what the heck...let's read it again.

OK I know most of the so called psychics are never accurate about Natalee's case.
However, look at this map of Renaissance Island:
 
http://hotels.about.com/od/aruba/ig/Pictures-of-Renaissance-Aruba/Map-of-the-Renaissance-Aruba.htm
 
Note the left part of the island has 9 trees drawn on it.
 
Then read this couple's review of Renaissance Island
 
 
http://www.aruba-travelguide.com/hotels/read_review.html?REVIEW_ID=288
 
<snip>
A little side note also, on the adult side (right side-with Flamingo's) off to the far right point, which you can walk out to--about 20-30 yards directly off the point is a sunken ship! Most people didn't even know this, however my wife and I ventured out and found it after reading extensive reviews all over the web. It's really cool and there are tons of fish. There's a part of the boat that is parallel with the water, and you can actually stand up on it as it's only about 2 feet under water! (this is about 30 yards out, so it looks very cool from the beach) The ship was about 100 yards or more long, and there are octopus, Morray eels etc.
 
I know it sounds crazy but what better place to hide a body than in plain view at a ship wreck? Most people are busy looking at the fish etc & not at what may be hidden inside the sunken ship. I know there are a lot of wrecks around Aruba & so would the locals.

You took the thoughts right out of my head.

BH

I agree.  There's a frustrated English major in there somewhere.  I hope he continues to write, on a blog or somewhere.  The Longfellow quote for me brought to mind the quote Ronald Reagan used about the Challenger crew having "slipped the surly bonds of earth to touch the face of God".  Wonderful imagery.

It's a wonderful thing the Persistence is doing.  God bless them.  My prayers are with them.

What night did Natalee disappear?  Sunday night when she left C&C with J2K?  That included early Monday morning.  Is that the 'night' all the 'local' boats were accounted for?

What about Monday night/early Tuesday morning prior to the encounter with the Twitty's at the VDS home?

I think there are at least two nights of interest - Sunday/Monday and Monday/Tuesday.

When did Natalee disappear?

Just a few words to the Crew Members of The Persistence...Please Know that Our Thoughts and Prayers are with You and that We have All the Faith in the World in You All. Miracles are in the Making and You All are the Angels on Earth Making the Miracles Happen for the Precious Angel Natalee....There are Just Not Enough Words to Thank You for What You are Doing.....God Bless Each and Every One of You.  PC

No word from Kyle in a few days.  I do hope everything is all right with the crew and ship.  We are sending prayers for all of you.  Please post when you can Kyle. 

To the crew of the Persistence.

May God bless you all in your sacrificial efforts to bring Natalee Holloway home to her family ... to her country and ... may God keep you all safe.

Sincerely, Janet

Whatever the outcome ... the crew of the Persistence have spoken loud and clear to the "powers that be" in the Aruban coverup into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway ... AMERICA DOES NOT FORSAKE HER OWN!

Janet

Private Investigator TJ Ward discusses the case

He says PVDS had Colombian contacts and may have contacted them to take Natalee off of the island.
5-1-07
640 WGST Atlanta. Talk. Radio.

http://tinyurl.com/33o437

From the Clausen Investigation in Aruba.

http://nataleehollowaywhatweknowsofar.blogspot.com/  (Bottom of Page)

(http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/4056/lionsden151jt9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9798/lionsden29ah2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/4006/lionsden180vm9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

 
I know it sounds crazy but what better place to hide a body than in plain view at a ship wreck? Most people are busy looking at the fish etc & not at what may be hidden inside the sunken ship. I know there are a lot of wrecks around Aruba & so would the locals.
[/quote]

I have always thought something like that too!  Maybe you can help me remember Lala as I am at work and don't have the time to search, but didn't Shango say something about what was hidden is not or something like that?  Maybe she is somewhere those  simple minded people can easily see but not to the trained professional.

X. Persistence

Update: Wed 09-Jan 1240 hrs
We lost Internet connectivity for two days due to rough seas and equipment failure. Now that we're back online, I will post an update shortly.

That storm was your day of reckoning coming Aruba!!!  We want Natalee and justice for her!!!

Janet - Beautiful post!
I'd like to join in adding my good wishes and prayers ot the crew of The Persistence. They have my utmost respect.

KG, "plain view" was mentioned, and I have also wondered if it could be an obvious location. I can tell you I have stayed at the Renaissance(formerly the Sonesta), and I always thought that private island was weird anyhow. There really isn't much going on over there, especially the supervision aspect. My friend and I swam approx 20 yrds past the then roped off area, to a little dock, and caught some sun for a couple of hours. Do not know if this little "dock" still exists, but it was big enough for two people comfortable. This "dock", or platform supposedly wasn't accessible to the guests, but it did seem to have a steep drop off compared to the roped area....

Kyle, we would like an update.  We know the area has been gridded and sonar used to identify targets. The remote was used to inspect targets. Is the search over?

 X. Persistence

Update: Thurs 10-Jan 1635 hrs
The bathymetric survey of the new grid is completed. -update will come shortly

Wed 09-Jan 1816 hrs
All Internet connectivity was lost for two days due to rough seas and equipment failure. The old adage "No news is good news" only applies on land. Offshore, the 'Law of the Sea' rules and no news usually just means "lost contact". The seas were 6-8ft with the occasional 12+ft swell. The past two nights were spent conducting a bathymetry-only survey of the new grid. The new grid more than doubles the original search area. If completed, the total area thoroughly searched will be 80% the size of Aruba. Currently, the seas are calm relative to what we've been experiencing. The four digits posted on the echo-sounder is a reminder of the limits being put to the test.

Every body of water near land has its own unique character, temperament, and color. The nature of water is governed by the trio of land, sea, and sky. The sea surface reflects the sky, the water column contains the turbidity from the land, and the seabed stares upward through the water column as long as the water allows it to. However, as the seabed falls away into the abyss, the color is always the same dark navy blue. Staring into these deep and dark waters reminds me that this island is surrounded by the same water that flows throughout our entire world. On the surface, the expanse of the sea divides us. Looking deeper, it is really what connects us all. Perhaps the sea gives a reflection of human nature and not just the sky.

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

 X. Persistence

Update: Thurs 11-Jan 0030 hrs
The bathymetric survey of the new grid is completed. The search area now totals approximately 57 sq miles, compared to the original 22 sq miles.

Maritime map making has long been an integral aspect of ocean exploration. As adventure seeking sea-faring men of old expanded their frontier, master artisans such as Ortelius and Cicero painstakingly plotted their progress. Instead of producing drab plots where form follows function, they used their artistry to produce meaningful navigation aids and passionately capture the spirit of exploration into their product. Areas of the yet-unknown are filled with caricatures of sea monsters and mermaids.

Today, a new generation of maritime map making, perhaps ushered in by Heezen and Tharpe, provides a new look into the abyss. Hand-painted murals with Latin place names are now replaced with computer generated 3D perspective views with satellite imagery. The old merchant ships and frigates that once sailed these waters charting coastlines and reefs claimed by the sea can now be found and mapped. It is an interesting connection between the old and new. We sail the same seas.

(http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/8831/aruba3ddq9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

X. Persistence

Update: Fri 12-Jan 1145 hrs
The seas calmed down dramatically since Wednesday. Last night was smooth sailing and saw double the progress of the previous nights. ...more to come later.

The crew of the Persistent needs to be upheld through encouragement and prayer as they continue their sacrificial efforts to find Natalee and bring her home to her family and ... to her country.  Spiritual, emotional and physical strength is continually tested as the crew endures the elements and ... separation from home and family for such a long period of time.

Janet

Kyle ... Hotshot just informed the Monkeys that all is well with the Persistence and its crew.  Hey ... we worry when we do not received updates.

However ... I am thankful that you took time out ... time out for a much needed rest and ... a much deserved rest!

I do not know how you and the crew keeps going day after day ... enduring those weather conditions.  There has been a small craft warning most days of the search.  I get seasick just viewing the videos which have been shared on your site.

God Bless

Janet

Update: Thurs 17-Jan 2320 hrs

The Persistence left the dock today at 1224 hrs. The trade winds are howling at 30+kts. The 8ft+ seas are growing and brimming with white caps rolling in from the northeast. The occasional 12-14ft swell rocks the Persistence mercilessly along with its inhabitants. Inside, life goes on as usual and spirits are high. Exceptionally large swells throw around anything that isn't dogged down. The galley clock gets thrown off the wall and is now stuck reading 8:35. It seems we also have high-tech self-clearing shelves, tables, and counters. Traversing around inside the boat is a novelty in high seas. People turn into walking pendulums making Z-shaped paths leaning to and fro 30 degrees. The comedy is abruptly interupted with a sobering reminder of the ocean's peril over the radio.

2100 hrs - A call comes on the radio from the Aruban Port Authority requesting the Persistence assist a vessel in distress. A sailboat named Michelle with 6 reported on board is adrift. In such strong winds and high seas it's possible the sailboat could have broken its mast. All we know is that they need immediate help. The search team picks up the sonar and immediately heads in the reported direction of the distressed vessel. For miles we scan the dark horizon as Curacao, Aruba, and the Persistence carefully monitor the radio. Finally, we receive a position and plot a bearing and range -4.5 miles, heading 210 degrees. After a while, the Aruban port authority once again raises the Persistence on the radio, only this time with a very different position. It seems not only is the Michelle adrift, she is very lost. I can only imagine what kind of hell the people on board are going through. Powerless, drifting, scared, alone, and at the mercy of perilous seas the Michelle hopes and waits for rescue somewhere offshore Curacao. The Persistence is called off its search and turns towards the Port of Aruba at 2300 hrs. Although unspoken, we all feel a sense of disappointment knowing the Michelle is still out there in danger.

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2008/01/xii-perilous-seas.html

God bless you all!

Please be careful. Trusting the Aruban government can prove fatal. I find it interesting that the Aruban Port Authority would contact you at 2100, 9pm, about a missing boat. Had they no one else to send for rescue? 9pm? Then they send you a different set of coordinates? I know you have to do the right thing and pursue the lost boat, but I think you might have been in an area searching where they didn't want you to be or they just wanted to cost you a night's work. I also worry they might try to harm the Persistance. I sincerely hope I am wrong but felt the need to tell you my concerns.

I share the same concerns as Maggie! I can't help but worry that the ship was in the vacinity where Natalee could be found when the call came in. Obviously, the perpetrators of Natalee's demise had help from authorities and someone knows where she was disposed. The ship may have been too close for comfort.

Take care and God Bless you for all you are doing! You remain in my thoughts and prayers every day!

This wasn't part of any conspiracy or diversion. The Michelle was in distress. They likely lost their mast in which case they would lose GPS positioning.  By the time they realised they were in trouble they got disoriented and didn't know where they were.  Those seas were very rough. The night can be extremely disorienting especially with clouds on the horizon, no power, and bouncing around inside of a derilict boat.  It's courtesy to respond to distress calls when you're in the vicinity. 
The Persistence is always in the vicinity where Natalee could be found.  This is why we're searching.  IMO The Aruban authorities have done nothing but help in anyway they can.
As for costing a nights work... the night was too rough to search and we would have turned towards the dock shortly anyhow.

I hope the Michelle made it safely back to harbor.  I looked in the Curacao news and didn't see anything about it.  Hopefully they were rescued and it ended up being a non-event.

Thanks for all you are doing Kyle!

My heart is full to overflowing tonight with thoughts of you, the crew searching for Natalee. I feel expectation as never before and such hope that your hard work, patience, and sacrifice is about to see it's purpose! It may sound silly, but as I enter into prayer, I sense an invitation for all of us to come into His presence and join together in expectant faith.

Be of good heart! I know that He is with you and I know you are in the most powerful place there is: squarely within His will.

God Bless You and Keep You!

XIII. Stay the Course

SPECIAL UPDATE: Fri 18-Jan 2335 hrs

We would like to specifically address one comment left on the blog which likely represents the sentiments of many.
“You guys have been out there for quite a long time now... I was really hoping for results by now. I can't help but begin to think she won't be found” -Overwhelming_Sadness

Quoting John Silvetti- Fri 18-Jan 2300 hrs
“It is easy to lose heart if one confuses expectations with hopes and desires. The nature of a marine search, especially one in which the method and disposition of the item you are searching for is unknown, requires a painstakingly slow and methodical disqualification process. The logic is no different than trying to find your car keys. The methodology is: you look where you were recently. We look where it is believed to be, based on evidence or reports. When you and I do not locate what we are looking for in the most logical place, we move on to the next logical place. Ultimately, we both confirm the old saying, “It is always in the last place you look”.
Unknown topography and terrain, combined with large seas have slowed us down but it has not stopped us. We have surveyed and investigated a large area, disqualified most of it, and moved on to an even larger area. At times our progress has been exceedingly fast and slow at other times. We do however, “STAY THE COURSE”....PERSISTENCE.

Our hopes and desires also were to find Natalee before Christmas so we could help bring closure to the Holloway family as our gift to them. Then, we could return home to our families to enjoy the holiday season and hug our children a little tighter... but, it was not meant to be that easy...and we understand.
–John Silvetti.”

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

XII. Perilous Seas

Update: Fri 18-Jan 2133 hrs
The Persistence pulls away from the dock at 1300 hrs heading northwest into deep water. The seas and winds have greatly diminished through the early morning hours. The crew grabs a few hours rest taking full advantage of the calm waters at the dock.
1655 hrs - the seas build to 6-9ft with the occasional 12ft+. Winds 35kts sustained with stronger gusts.
2130hrs - the seas were building steadily all day. We're forced to dead-head lines running acquisition with the seas at our stern. To maintain heading along the line the captain holds a 37-40 degree crab angle due to swift currents and strong winds.


http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

XIII. Stay the Course

Update: Sat 19-Jan 1745 hrs
The Persistence left the dock at 1530 hrs heading back towards the deepest portion of the survey area. The weather has been continually rough and does not look like it will let up this evening or through tonight. Fortunately, we took on fresh water this morning which acts like additional ballast for the boat, reducing some of the roll. While in about 750-800ft of water we came across another unknown wreck. This wreck (perhaps an old schooner) is about 50-55ft long.

(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2640/aruba55ftwreck800ftdeptyu2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

I am continuously awed by the sacrifices made by the crew of the Persistence.
They are truly the best that America has to offer, and I am very proud of them. These are the kind of people who make us such a great country, and they represent us well. Some of us may not understand the intricacies  and technical difficulties of the work they are doing, but we can all recognize what a great gift they are giving to Natalee and her family regardless of when she is found.

Persistence -  We are with you, for as long as it takes. God Bless you all.

(http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/5064/persistencejg5.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

"No greater sacrifice .... a neighbor takes off his shirt and gives it to you....a friend in need, a friend indeed."  All this seems appropriate, many heroes involved in this operation.

Klaas... I wouldn't let this link here.IMO .... It is a link to a vile site, anti-holloway.
The psoter Rolls from RU, this is his site and hes well an ass! Texasmom, you probably didnt know this. IT is also a anti- SM site as well. TIA

Natalee loved the Wizard of Oz, and I often think of her as "Over The Rainbow". God's promise is broadcast across the heavens everytime that beautiful arched prism makes an appearance. He made the promise to Noah, as the first covenant between God and man. In Revelation 4, we are given a picture of God's throne, and the Bible teaches us that there is a rainbow around His throne. That rainbow is representative of all God's covenants with man and signifies the intimate relationship He has with us. He knows our desires and has chosen to care about each of us as His own child. The rainbow that could be seen by the persistence holds tremendous encouragement and promise for their sacrifice! They are not alone, and they are exhibiting His example of sacrificial love spent for others. Lord, please let them bring Natalee home and please let them feel your presence and guidance! Thank you for the crew and letting us learn of your nature through them!

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/MOD/Natbird2.gif)

Elaine, thank you for the information.  I was unaware of the basis of the site and truly intended no harm.  I asked for Klaas' help to resolve the problem, and she took care of it. 

Update: Tues 22-Jan 0915 hrs
The Persistence left the dock this morning at 0600 hrs, heading out to deep water. Last night, four replacement survey team members flew in to join the Persistence to relieve crew who has been here since the beginning, over a month ago. Although the new crew brings new energy, losing the battle-proven seasoned crew is bittersweet. Words fail to describe the level of trust and bond between the crew. Despite being in close quarters together since 15-Dec, missing holidays with loved ones, birthdays, anniversaries, rough seas, and many intense situations, NEVER was there a moment of bad tension between any of the crew. I trust the new crew will quickly bond and become seasoned to the terrain and conditions- both above and below the waves.
Happy Birthday sis - You're loved and missed.

Thank You Klass ::MonkeyCool::

I sent rebecca the info on the boat search and this was her email back to me.

OK, now there is something to this finding boats.  I know she is near a boat, one that has a part that sticks up the water? Low tide..

Oh how I wish they would find her…..!!!!

Love and light

 

Rebecca

Godspeed the Persistence

There was a post at RU that the Persistence has found something and that forensics were underway. RU is not the most reliable source, but we can't help but get our hopes up. Is there any truth to the post?

You guys are always in our hearts, thoughts, and prayers! Thank you so much for your sacrifices. You give hope where there has been nothing but hopelessness!

kyle's latest update;


XIII. Stay the Course

Update:
Wed 23-Jan 1415hrs
The Persistence left the dock at 0700 hrs headed for the survey area. The winch is fixed, skies are clear, and the seas are calmer. The new crew are settled in and getting used the work flow.
More later

This latest post done today is so beautiful, Im sitting here crying my eyes out ::MonkeyWaa:: Im truely in awe of these wonderful giving ppl that are true heros. Yo kind of give up on human nature with all that is going on in this world and especially the tragic situation with Natalee and her family, and then these heros come along, and just renews your faith in mankind. If nothing else comes of this, please know that you have blessed my heart and many many others. God bless you, your familys and know that you all have blessed me.

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

XIV. The Search Area

Update: Fri 25-Jan 1630 hrs

Early on I was asked the following question by a reader: “do I believe in miracles and are we expecting a miracle to happen”? My response: “I do not have enough faith to be an atheist in time such as these. Perhaps a better question would be: what kind of miracles are we expecting?”
The miracle she referred to was whether we believed we would find Natalee Holloway based on the relative odds and unknowns. The question I returned was perhaps more poignant. How would our lives be changed in the process of finding her in light of the adversity and unknowns? I maintain my position that it is a much larger miracle to have lives and hearts changed than to overcome odds and solve unknowns.
Since the beginning of this search I have been witness to many miracles. I’ve watched loving wives gracefully supporting their husbands while waiting home alone with children for over a month. I’ve seen sons and daughters patiently and cheerfully waiting for their daddies to come home to them. I’ve seen hearts moved and changed to give generously out of love and conviction. I’ve witnessed trust build, bonds form, friendships established, lies replaced with truth, mistakes forgiven, and perhaps the greatest of all and hardest to fathom... genuine loving sacrifice.
While searching offshore Aruba from the shallows to the abyss, we have truly ventured into a new search area. We’ve been exploring the very essence of our human being discovering purpose, hope, strength, and love along the way.

Edited to add

That out of such tragedy these beautiful things can happen is truly a tribute to Natalee, and to her family. It renews my faith that good can triumph over evil. God is showering the Persistence with his blessings.

My prayers continue for the health, safety and success of the crew of the Persistence.

RINGY DINGY!  ::MonkeyConfused::

...

Update: Tues 29-Jan 1610 hrs

The Persistence left the dock at 0645 hrs this morning returning to survey what has been the roughest portion of the search area. The seas here are reliably 8-12 ft due to convergent water masses, strong stratified shearing currents, and opposing trade winds. Local fishermen have a name for it which roughly translates to "don't go there". For the last couple days we have been working in the heart of "don't go there" in atypically calm 2-3 ft swells. We have never seen it this calm out here. The timing couldn't be better. More later

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

Thanks Carpe!

Not a fish trap but I do remember this early on....

All of my Lago friends who grew up in Aruba, including the boys who loved nothing more than skin diving and spearfishing, swam all of those waters with only flippers, snorkle and mask and their trusty spearguns.

They all agree that by far, the fastest and easiest and surest way to dispose of a dead body would be to run over to Boca Mahos from Noord, drive up to the edge of the cliff and toss the body out into the crashing waves over the shear drop of the undercut cliff.

Look at Boca Mahos and the boys I grew up with jumping into the sea as teenagers...

This boca, cove, if you will, MUST be searched by the Navy Seals and the Florida State University forensic divers...or they will have missed the MOST LIKELY PLACE to dump a dead body to hide it forever.

If they dive and search that boca, they will find some traces of Natalee...I am sure...very very very sure.

All of my Aruba friends who know the island as well as I do, and beter, agree...dive in Boca Mahos...and you will find something...

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/07/natalee_hollowa_26.html

you're welcome, texasmom.


some new ones:
.....


XV. Aruba

Update: Thurs 31-Jan 1330 hrs
The Persistence is currently working in the same general area as the last several days. Winds 25 kts with 6-10ft side seas. More later


Thurs 31-Jan 1040 hrs
The last several days saw outstanding progress in what was expected to be the roughest part of the search area. Last night, we learned why the local fishermen nicknamed this area “don’t go there”. The seas were a rather innocuous 2-3ft with pleasant 10kt breeze. Within an hour, the seas exploded into a 12-14ft torrent with 35kt sustained winds. After a few hours battling side seas the search team brought the sonar on deck amidst crashing waves of green water pouring over the back deck. We found an approximately 265ft long wreck lying upright on the seabed which is an eerie testament of this area’s volatile ferocity.

 ::MonkeyTongue::

XVI. Recent Development

Update: Fri 01-Feb 1815 hrs

The Persistence search team and crew are very excited about the recent developments announced yesterday, Thursday January 31st. We are currently acquiring data and have not stopped or changed our search methods in response to the announcement. We too wait with anticipation and hope the outcome is both positive and accurate for the remainder of the ongoing investigation.

Our hearts and prayers are with the Holloway and Twitty families.

SRC:
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

Friday, February 8, 2008
XVII. Support the Effort

Special Notice:
The dedicated ocean search for Natalee Holloway has been underway since mid-November, 2007. What began in Louisiana during mobilization now culminating in Aruba, the search has utilized some of the best search equipment and personnel in the world. To date, approximately 900 miles of sonar data has been collected covering a geographic area 80% the size of Aruba. The search has required a painstakingly slow approach which in the end leaves no stone unturned.

Although slow, this approach is extremely effective in marine search and recovery. Since the beginning, the search has been privately funded by Louis Schaefer Jr. of Underwater Expeditions who remarkably and gracefully accepted the financial burden when requested by Texas Equusearch and Natalee's parents. John Silvetti of Marine Surveys, Greg Landry of Offshore Innovative Solutions, Erik McGuire of Seatronics, along with Agiosat and Wilkens Weather Service came beside Louis to conduct this humanitarian effort. To put this search effort in financial perspective, an equivalent search conducted for industry would involve costs well exceeding several million dollars. This project has been conducted for about 35 cents on the dollar, with costs still exceeding a million dollars.

Although we have searched and ruled out an extensive portion of the original planned search area, a substantial portion of the high-probability area yet remains to be explored. Now, following a publicly confirmed admission that Natalee Holloway was disposed at sea, we are confident that completing the focused search area will bring closure. We therefore formally invite and request anyone who this humanitarian effort has touched to get involved and to help support the remaining search efforts. Donations are being handled by Texas Equusearch, a 501 (c) (3) nonprofit organization. Please come beside those who have already given so much to help ensure a proper funeral in Alabama for Natalee Holloway. Please make all donations marked as: "Holloway search".

To learn more about Texas Equusearch and to help support the search for Natalee Holloway, check out: http://www.texasequusearch.org/donate.html

Texas EquuSearch Office:
4013 FM 517, Suite B
Dickinson, Texas 77539
P. O. Box 395, Dickinson, Texas 77539

Office: (281) 309-9500
Fax: (281) 534-6719
Toll Free: (877) 270-9500
Email: donate@texasequusearch.org

Posted by Kyle Kingman at 4:44 PM

Hi,
This is my first post here at SM, although I have been lurking since the beginning.  I love how dedicated to the Holloway family this group has been.  I wonder, when the Persistance brings Natalie home, if maybe they could look for Max De Vrie
while in Aruba? His story haunts me just as Natalie's does, and my heart aches for his mother as well as Beth.  Just an idea, I hope it is not too forward for a first post.  By the way, my 10 year old son with Asperger's Syndrome loves the animated monkeys!    ::MonkeyDance::

Welcome to the cage Sherry!

Flag that will be raised if Natalee is found..God Speed Persistence!!!!!
http://player.omroep.nl/?aflID=6472985 (Dutch TV)
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/jolly.jpg)

Thank you for the welcome, just listened to the radio show.  Awesome!!  Sending prayers to the Persistence crew, and Natalies family. :smt060

XVII. Support the Effort

Update: Fri 15-Feb 1100 hrs
Over the past few days, progress in the deep water areas has been hampered by 14ft seas and 30kt+ wind. The conditions are simply too rough to work safely. Today, the Persistence headed out to the survey area, completed a single line, and headed back to the dock after getting pounded in the rough conditions.

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

To the Persistence Crew:

That flag is going to wave, and you are going to bring her home! Those ocean waves are a poor attempt to discourage, but they don't stand a chance with the fortitude and resolve you have in your heart. The hand that guides you will calm the wind and waves and lead you. The most powerful place on earth is standing within God's Will and you guys are at ground zero in that regard! All our Love and Prayers!

Greetings,

Thank you all for your kind words, support, and prayers.  We're all bracing for the fall-out of the Dateline broadcast.  We'll provide an update soon.

Hi Kyle - I actually thought the broadcast was pretty well done.  I learned things I didn't know especially in the 2nd half of the broadcast.

What kind of fall-out do you think you'll see?

Maybe I missed this last night....... do you all suspect the "trap" you found to be a "plant" or just some random trap lost by fishermen? It appeared to be very large.
Thanks!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks OE! We are Very Proud of You and the Crew....Bless You All!

I watched a season of "Deadliest Catch" on the Discovery Channel about crab fishing.  It was fascinating to get a glimpse of their difficult work.  The crab traps they used were lifted onto the ship by some overhead crane-type equipment.  It took two men to swing the traps into place and open them to dump the crabs into the holding container.  There were huge stacks of these empty traps on the ship after they were hauled in and emptied. 

The trap we saw on Dateline last night resembled those traps.  I thought the show last night was very well done, and reminded me of the very difficult work and conditions the team of the Persistence is facing every day.  Thank you all so much for your bravery and devotion to this heroic effort.  I hope the donations are pouring in to support you and my prayers for you all continue daily.

Sincerely,

Helen Back

My main regret with the broadcast is John Silvetti not getting the credit he was due.  John's the owner of the Persistence, owner of Marine Surveys LLC, and the field project manager of the search. 
Regardless how good of a production it was - Generally speaking, there should never be a broadcast giving details about an active investigation.  When the investigation is complete and no longer potentially sensitive to either the case, victims family, or suspect (s), then sure... why not broadcast it.  It is irresponsible and potentially damaging to do what they did (broadcasting the show while the search is still active) and they broke their agreement with Tim and John to make this production. 

I would like to personally express my appreciation to all of you who have followed this case for so long, supported the family and the search effort with your prayers, and continued to press for answers and resolution.  Collectively you have a voice which is impossible to silence.  While on board the Persistence, it has been a major encouragement to silently read through the postings of people watching, waiting, praying, and perservering.  Thank you all.

 ::MonkeyShocked::Wow, Kyle!  I am so sorry they did that to you all!!    Very interesting to say the least.  Can anyone be trusted?  Please know  what an inspiration you are to all of us!   Sending love and  prayers to all of  you.

Words cannot express the admiration we all feel for all of you gentle giants!  Godspeed and blessings to you all.

I will be praying that the broadcast does not put You All in danger and if there is anything that We can do please let Us know....John Silvetti is A Great American Hero...Please let Him know that He is Very Much Admired for All He is doing to find Natalee...
That Also goes to Each and Every Crew Member. God Bless You All!
Sincerely PC

Hi Ocean Ex, and all aboard the Persistence,
That answers some big questions for me.  While watching, I couldn't help but wonder if it was wise to show the search efforts at this time, while still in progress.  So sorry that it was not intended on your part.  During the course of this case, I should say we have all learned at lot about the main stream media and what they are willing to do for ratings and hype.  If you ask me, they're all a little late coming to the dance.  I'll stay tuned here and through your blog for updates, and pray daily for your safety and success.

Sincerely,

Helen Back

I think this is important to share.  Posted by LegallyLex at BFN....


CRITICAL TIME IN THE SEARCH - HELP AND IDEAS NEEDED


I am going to post this on several different areas of this blog site because I posted that there was not enough money from donations a few days ago and no one read or responded to this.  NOW, is the time, if you know of any corporations or sponsors who can help complete the search for Natalee the facts are as follows:

1.  We are in a CODE BLUE situation.  Within the next 24-48 hours there will be requests sent to several different countries, US., Aruba, Netherlands to ask for corporate sponsors to help complete the search for Natalee.  In good weather, this search can be completed in full in about 3 weeks.

2.  I am asking that if you know of any corporation or business who can help in this search to please donate monies to Texas Equusearch.

I realize that most of you have contributed to the search; however, our donations have not made a dent as to what is needed to finish the search.  Therefore, within the next 2 days a decision will be made to either complete the areas if the funds become available or to head home with the targets and shallow water search incomplete because of lack of funds.
 
I ask that if you know the friend of a friend of a friend who has ties to corporations to please call them to help.  Greta and Nancy Grace have been approached and have NOT EVEN RESPONDED.... What does that tell you?

People, anything that you can think of to help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Sorry to hear that Kyle.  We know how important John Silvetti and the whole crew of the Persistence is.  I hope that nothing bad happens as a result of the program.

I wish you smooth sailing from here on out and am sending lots of prayers and good wishes your way.  I thank God for you every day, each one of you and also your families who have given up the thing most precious to them and that is their time with you.  God bless!

Kyle and Persistence Crew,
I know there are many people out there with the means to contribute the necessary funds to complete the search.  I just don't know how to contact them!  I just sent an email to the Whitehouse and to the Vice President that included an excerpt from your blog site along with a heartfelt plea for assistance.  I asked that the information be forwarded to anyone that could help with the effort.  I am praying before I close my eyes for the night that those emails will be opened by the right person and some assistance will come your way. 

You are all TRUE AMERICAN HEROES in my heart and always will be.....I hope you know that if I had the means to fund the completion of this effort, you would have it.  You have given HOPE, where there was so little for over two months now and if the search must be discontinued we will never forget how much you have all given in your valiant effort to bring Natalee home.  Your efforts have been truly PRICELESS!  This mother will always be grateful to all of you...

I don't know too much about sonar, but might a lost cell phone antenna under water reflect a certain  microwave frequency back?  And for that matter, might the lobster cage have a certain resonant frequency to diferentiate it from all the other under water junk?   Something to think about in case they haven't tried it yet.   

In my opinion...

If God wills it... Natalee's remains will be found in the manner and timing that God wills it to happen.  Mark my words. That timing will be divinely perfect. From my experience, this generally happens in a manner that defies logic, is beyond chance, and confounds the ways of the wise with the actions of the weak. After it's complete, anyone who looks at the details will be left with no other explanation that there is a loving, caring, omniscient God behind it all.  By the works one knows the worksman.

During the process we are presented with two major challenges: 1) to look beyond all the garbage to see God's hand working in the situation as it unfolds, step by step.  By garbage, I mean the temptation to take full control over the situation, distractions from both well-intended people and opportunists, and discouragement.
2) Stay the course.  His course.  I believe if we overcome these challenges, we will be successful by God's view of success.  Hopefully in this case, His view of success overlaps with ours.  We'll see.
 

Hi Kyle,
Still thinking of you all everyday and praying for a positive
outcome for your search.
My God's hand calm the turbulent waters and bring you
all peace.

(http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/5041/persistence144042hzg4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
The Persistance is equipped with the most advanced sonarapparatuur. Around Aruba speurt the ship for two months to Natalee Holloway.

"Between hooibergen searching for a pin"
By MAAIKE RUEPERT
ORANJESTAD - The father of Natalee Holloway has his hopes on the sonarschip Persistance at the remains of his daughter to be found. 
But so far, the quest, which began as early as December, no results. While the money runs out, the crew starts to the last stage: diving for suspicious objects.

Long before Joran van der Sloot his televisiebekentenis did, departed Persistance-owner John Silvetti and his men of America to Aruba. Since December 15 trotseert a fourteen storey headlines team with the most advanced sonarapparatuur at his own expense of wild sea around the island.

Almost three years after the disappearance of Natalee, it is only the first serious quest under water. Only the coastguard has made an attempt. But Silvetti smiles wrang. ,, The coastguard has never looked further than the extremely shallow waters.''

After a meeting with Holloway last autumn Silvetti said his ship available, which it is in everyday life inspects oil fields. ,, When Dave Holloway told me that he wanted nothing more than his daughter buried, broke my heart. I want the Holloways their daughter back.''

Silvetti said with Louis Schaefer, the financier who already one million dollars in the operation stopped, a zoekteam together. Silvetti with his crew an area miles from the coast and have searched dozens of meters deep. Silvetti:,, almost the entire surface of Aruba.''

Geofysicus Kyle Kingman examine all images of the sonarapparaat that only five meters above the ground is capricious. ,, We will save no inch over,''he says. For one seemed seem the images on the monitor no more than stippeltjes on a yellowish background. But even recognize groenteblikjes Kingman.

Once thought to bite them. On the seabed was a vissenkooi with something on a skull appeared. This week the duiksessies begin with a robot to about one hundred abnormal items, which have been observed on the seafloor. Silvetti:,, It is the last phase of our quest.''

The chance that they ever found something of Natalee, is small. Bones spread and are covered with coral. Natalee is only found when in a vissenkooi or anything such is dumped. ,, We look for a needle in a haystack in the middle of hooibergen,''realizes Silvetti. Kingman remains hopeful. ,, We are on the right track,''says the young geofysicus, who has decided to remain unborn daughter Natalee called.
http://www.ad.nl/holloway/article2083917.ece

I am humbled by you inspiring posts.  Thank you for sharing your opinions.  It is music to my ears to hear truth, especially with all the darkness that comes out of so many mouths  in regards to this case.  God Bless you!

It was here, when they were "without...divisions" that the glory of G_d manifested.
(2 Chronicles 5:11-14). that they may be perfected into a unit..."


Let's come together and be a force for good.

kermit

Friday, February 29, 2008
XVIII. Sonar Search Complete

Update: Fri 29-Feb 2330 hrs

Since the 16th of December, off the west coast of Aruba the search team on board the RV Persistence has been combing the sea floor of an area 80% the size of Aruba. The Herculean side scan sonar search is nearing completion. Once finished, a final ROV dive target list will be constructed. This list is expected to well-exceed 100 targets. The timing and extent of the remaining ROV dive operations depends on weather, logistics, and funding.
The team is weary, yet filled with a sense of accomplishment. The team has performed very well even under the intense pressure, difficult terrain, rough seas, and often grueling pace.


http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

Posted by oceanexploration

It would be rotten of me to lurk and not comment about our departure.  I agree, it feels absolutely awkward leaving.  I know it seems there are more questions now than before the search even began.  The only comfort and comment I can affort is knowing that many questions will be answered in time.

As for the remaining targets:
There are between 100-200 targets yet to be explored.  Remember, we are searching for anything that could contain human remains, not just a fish trap. It's likely most of these remaining targets are simply debris or unimportant seabed features.  However, we originally set out to leave no stone unturned.  The plan is (as of today-plans do often change) to return to these targets once we've secured adequate funding with a dedicated ROV team on a different boat.  A different boat would be more efficient at running ROV operations both in terms of maneuvering and cost.

-The Aruban authorities do not know our target list, nor have the capability to investigate most of the targets.
-AF2 is on the Island.  To me this indicates Cheney is on the island, but I can't confirm this nor comment on the reason for the visit.
-The trap in question is significantly larger than Dr. Hodges reported dimensions from the fishermen huts owner.

Since the search is over, at least for now, I'm going to unsticky this thread.  We'll start a new thread if a team goes back to search.

What a beautiful, inspiriting post ~ thank you for everything ~ God bless all of you.

I think I may have figured this out.

Nice post OE.  Hopefully God's time is now!