Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

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Did I beat ROBOTS???

 :D :D :cool:

Someone has to post to bring this to the top of the index page.

Hoping others follow  :cool:

2NJ, we are not very good mods.  They are not following.

.

Looks like everyone got lost! See what happens when Klaas leaves us!

I wonder about that ad at the bottom of this page.  What is intimate dating???

 :shock:   :2doh:   :roll:

 :lol: :lol: I was here and went back...and yes, was in a twilight zone...

I beg to differ...we did our best without the key... :wink:

Got back in the nick of time  :lol:  Thanks for moving yourselves over  :wink:

You were faster than monkeys moving from one cage to another.

 :shock:

It's good that when you run out for a bit, it's quicker than we can imagine. :cool:

Even the earthquake appears to be yesterday's news and not at all 7.2 but a 4.7.  The usual inaccurate reporting.

26-DEC-2007 05:59:52 10.76 -65.68 4.7 5.9 NEAR COAST OF VENEZUELA

Has there been any more news about the body found?

Klaasend - WB, I see u had locked the page.  :wink:

PI - No I see and heard really nothing at RTL news in the Netherlands. I can tell this was a fals reporting.

Just my own feeling, a fairlytale being promulgated by Joran's supporters, possibly RU.

Perhaps I did not make it clear; I do not think it is fact, so maybe the word "propagandizing" would have been more appropriate.

What body?

Some of that bothers me, too, Anna, but I have mentioned it before and I know that these things pop in and out.  I wonder, however, if there are more of the sleaze ads because we are discussing Aruba.

Someone has post false information, that Dutch media station RTL news reporting, possible Natalee her body was found in golde mines in Aruba.

Thanks.

Who is this Gerard guy? Reputable?  I mean it is hard to get any reputable info off that island as it is.  If a body has even been found, I wonder who found it?

Klaasend said that the person appeared to be posting on the FM from the Netherlands....NYC_Lover, also in NL has posted she has seen no such news there....and there has been no news elsewhere that gives his post any validity.

We never heard anything more about Joyce, did we? I wonder if aruba was testing the waters to see what our MSM would pick up on?

In my previous post...FM should have been FP 'front page'..

Guess there is no credibilty in any of it then.  If it was on the news, someone else would have heard it.

I agree...many would have run with it and it would be all over the place...imo

I'm sorry, Mum...who's Joyce?

It never was at the news. In the Dutch news get around 4 times in one hour, then mostly to get the same news. Or when there is breaking news in things, it want come directly in the news. And the IP report is come from Amsterdam, Amsterdam there are connections with Aruba and sure with JVDS.
Does not Joran want studying in Amsterdam?
And how can someone tell he has it from RTL, when it never is come in the news?
BTW, a fault report what is not credible and nobody can control it.

I am too often reminded, even with the yeoman efforts of the Persistence of Paulus' remarks regards "no body, no crime," and agree with PI that the only way to ensure that was to take her body to an incinerator or crematorium.  However, I believe that with an incinerator, there would still be remains of teeth, so perhaps it was a crematorium. 

 :shock: :shock: :shock:
I'm SO Sorry! I was away from the computer and missed Klaas' post! I should have posted BBL while I was working and lurking! Sorry, Klaas~!


 :2doh: :2doh: :2doh:

Does anyone really believe the Joyce situation was not a set-up?  No way was that not a PR stunt by ALE and AHATA to show that ALE responds to the needs/demands of American tourists.  Maybe someone should check someone's bank account to see how much money was recently deposited in it for this "staged" rescue and delivery facade.

Guido Wever who was arrested in connection with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway will fight extradition request to Aruba.

A Dutch national detained on suspicion of participating in the kidnapping and killing of Natalee Holloway in Aruba is fighting a request to bring him to the island, his attorney’s office said. Guido Wever was arrested on Sunday and is considered a friend of Joran Van der Sloot. Guido Wever worked at the casino in the Holiday Inn where Natalee Holloway stayed on her senior vacation.

For the first time in a long time a suspect has been detained that admits to knowing Joran Van der Sloot. Looking back on the investigation, Guido Wever is the individual who stated he was playing tennis with Joran Van der Sloot the following day

Guido Weber is related to Yolanda Weber, Director of Mementomori Funeral Home in Aruba?

10061906 posted on March 14, 2006 that “Two out of four Funeral Homes in Aruba are both in Oranjstad and both owned by “WEVER”. Mementomori Director Yolanda Wever. Friend of Paulus Van der Sloot. Instrumental in establishing a crematorium on Aruba. Zepp Wever Funeral Home.”

Now, the next day, in police statements, multiple sources have told us that Joran and Guido were hanging out, that they were together that day after Natalee Holloway disappeared


http://judicial-inc.biz/J_oran_va_der_sloot_supplement.htm

The site where this allegation is posted

Sorry 2NJSons-Mom, had something to do. Joyce disappeared in Aruba from the Banana bus a day or so before Christmas. Found sleeping in her parent's bed at the HI. Muffy started a thread in Missing Persons with a little info. Great pictures of ALE in bullet proof vests.

If memory serves, there was a young woman by the name of Wever, who died about the same time as Natalee.  Makes you go hmmmm.

Ah, okay..thank you...her name didn't stay with me...but I read all of that. 

I have been looking at June 16th because of Lala’s 5th suspect and noticed that Satish was not questioned from June 11th until June 18th, except by Judge Wit. I am presuming that this was in regards to a further 8 day detention, but haven’t checked on it yet. Here are a few things from my notes as the 16th and Rene were mentioned by the night crew. Have not included details of 17th and 18th. Maybe it will help ******* to see why Rene’s wife murdered him! LOL!

June 15th 2005
Van der Sloot’s house searched
Anita and Paulus questioned per Top95
Steve Croes questioned
Florencia Metz questioned
Natalee missing for 4 days in Costa Rica rumor posted and deleted.
Geraldo on Fox - theory on porn video

June 16th 2005Questioned

Camera controllers – various hotels
Florencia Metz
Koen Gottenbos
Sander Gottenbos
Freddy Arambatzis
Lorenzo van Rijn
Max Arendz

Joran’s lawyer spoke with a witness - Top 95
Boycott of Aruba talks announced – 95.1
Joran changes to Kalpoes story – Top 95
Distance to Joran’s house from hotels measured
Porn movie theory debunked by editor of Aruba Today and not mentioned again on Fox
Judge to rule on Paulus visiting Joran
Aruba radio says around 3.30PM that there is an arrest in Savaenta - no confirmation
Abrams Report – arrest not related to Natalee
Helicopter with heat seeking equipment near Donkey Farm
Picture of Joran not looking happy – NY Post and AP

Rumors from June 16th 2005

Joran’s lawyer did not tell the truth about what was discussed with the witness-interesting
Joran’s lawyer fired
Interviewing three more -  Jaime and Freddy should be included
Fox says evidence found
Val taken off the island
Judge not to rule today
Helicopter searched near Seroe/Kia – not sure if this is near the Donkey Farm
Joran was seen going into the woods at ISA on May 30th.
This is second raid and arrest not related to Natalee’s case
Possible first rumor of 6.30 phone call
More rumors that Natalee had run away before
Friend speaks out on Joran’s temper
Friend speaks out on Satish’s temper


From Fox by a friend of the Kalpoes

Satish and Deepak hung out a lot with vacationers

No connection to drugs.

No fights with people.

THinks brothers are protecting Joran.

edit: Friend was also from Surinam


June 16th to 17th.ORANJESTAD - The death of Rene van Heyningen, on the night of Thursday, 16 on Friday, June 17, 2005, were relationship problems in advance. The man was violent and jealous women

June 17th.Steve Croes arrested
Satish questioned by Judge Wit

Questioned
Sander
Freddy
Steve
Jaime
Koen

June 18th. 2005Paulus questioned
Bank lady, Ruth Dijkhoff, murdered in The Netherlands


By the way, I do not buy into ‘the not connected to Natalee’ garbage. All of these people were questioned because of what happened to Natalee.  Lala’s has said many times that just because they were suspects, does not mean that they were detained. Why did ALE not release information about the status of some?


Why NO questions for Satish?



 

http://www.matthewscremation.com/industry/international.asp

The company that sold and installed the crematorium in Aruba

Jalitza Marie Wever
21 Mar 1962 - 02 Jun 2005
 
Funeral took place: 06 Jun 2005, Oranjestad, ARUBA

http://www.amigoe.com/english/   12/24/2007

Interesting - the printed ineundoes.

Persistance continues wit expedition to Holloway

The Persistance searching the seabed for the remains of Natalee Holloway.

ORANJESTAD – The decision of the Public Prosecutor to dismiss the Holloway-case has no effect on the investigation of the special ship Persistance, emphasized the crew that started to scan the seabed around Aruba on Tuesday.  With the best equipment in the world, they are trying to find Holloway.  Dave Holloway, Natalee’s father announced the arrival of the ship one month ago.  However, the ship’s arrival was delayed by the tropical storm Olga.

The ship has modern sonological-equipment that can scan up to 4000 meters deep. 

The ship can scan very deep seabeds.  The ship will first determine the topographical situation of the sea around Aruba till the sea border with Venezuela.   The speed of the sound under water is measured with a sound velocity profile (SVP).  This is needed for the calculation of data during the scan.  Strange abnormal forms on the seabed can be captured with that.   

Maritime geologist Kyle Kingman, who maintains a blog about the expedition on www.nholloway.blogspot.com compares the seabed with an ‘old living creature from the end of the cretaceous period, full of stories’.  “We know that this creature is making sure that he does not abandon his secrets”, writes Kingman.  He expects though that when the side scan sonar is activated, the contents of each split is going to be revealed and can be seen on a monitor in the computer room.  He says though that it remains difficult, like a shopping cart in an area as big as Manhattan.   

The search is of course going to cost a lot.  There are 18 people working with the most modern and expensive instruments on board of the ship.  Project manager Tim Miller doesn’t want to confirm that millions of dollars in donations are paying for this search.  “We don’t want media-attention; we only want to do our job.”  He only wanted to talk to Diario.  Also the office of the organization Texas Equusearch (TES), of which Miller is the founder, doesn’t want to say anything.  This abundantly sponsored American organization is specialized in search actions for mainly missing fellow country persons.  TES has already searched for Natalee two years ago, but only to a depth of 100 meters at that time.   

The organization receives a lot of monetary- as well as emotional support on the weblog.  This support is mainly from people that give the Lord’s blessing and that ask everybody to pray for the crew on the ship and the Holloway family.  Criticism is not really tolerated on the website.  These are not even added to the log.  An anonymous informant is wondering whether the authorities are on board of the ship for if they find evidence.  The lawyers of the former suspects are afraid that evidence can be planted by the crew.  “They may just drop or add a purse for example.” 

The OM does not cooperate with the search action, but wants to be kept informed of whatever is discovered that can be of interest.  It is not known whether the crew has applied for a work permit for the search with the government.

Yes, that's it...a poster here, Rob, contacted them long ago to verify.

These nasty bastards from these Caribbean newspapers never cease to amaze me, at the depths to which they will sink to denigrate the memory of a dead person. 

Aruba can take their work permit and shove it right up their ass.


Anyone on Aruba who wants to use a work permit as an excuse to interfere with the search of a missing American on their land or in their water should get their jaw immediatley broken by a Navy Seal.

So is this article telling us that there is a purse to be found?  What else does the jerk that wrote that article know?  What was their involvement?

To whatever asshole wrote that article - remember, when you point your finger at someone, there are 3 more pointing right back at you!!! 

Aruba likes to point out that the refinery there was of use to the US in WWII. They fail to realize that it was built by US companies and is owned and operated by US companies. It is true that Areubans work there, but they are paid high wages for doing so. So what is it that they think they have given us? If the US did not protect it the Germans would have taken Aruba over, and Aruba having a large Jewish population would not have fared so well. Granted they were a good ally, but given to us?

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/12/27/ (http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/12/27/)

Another suicide; 16 yo boy. Found in his room by his mama.


Online Pap translation:

young of 16 year owing to comete suicidio

oranjestad (aan): diaranzon madruga, one young in pleno flower of his life, owing to comete the acto extremo of suicidio.

this owing to socede at bushiri 74, y is his own mother owing to come descubri the young colga at the cama in camber.

the young of inicial j.g. of 16 year owing to opta for place one end at his life, envez of busca yudanza.
kico owing to place haci the acto here, the only know. but now the is let all his family, amigo, y children conocir of dje at school in tristeza inmenso.

hobennan of aruba have to can know cu for cualkier problem at world, have solucion. pesey is important for do you talk! as cu do you perfect, or do you parents self, or do you uncle, y even abuelo y abuela. besides aruba is disfruta of one good sistema of telephone for hubentud cu also can help.

if you because; one adult, do you achieve one young acercabo y mustrabo cu the have pensamentonan extremo so, can please beat thigh y haci algo!

police owing to present, because; also autoridadnan high of aruba, kendenan owing to bay place they self at height of the sucedido. at end, funeraria zepp wever owing to transporta the restonan deadly. at family of the young, daily paper is extende his more deep word of condolencia.

* * *

Fight breaks out at Havana Beach Club, involves at least one pistol.


Online Pap translation:

they owing to cause problem y action abroad of nightclub!

police owing to captura hobennan coriendo of pistool in car

oranjestad (aan): people of aruba owing to fada of the asunto cu hobennan is believe cu is one “videogame” they're hungando cu arm on caya!

pesey diaranzon madruga during cu had one party andando in havana beach club, testigonan abroad owing to see con one are of person owing to cuminza fight cu another. fist y golpi owing to spat of pariba-pabao, y of pazuid-panort. security owing to deal of domina the situation, but was dificil.

finalmente testigonan owing to see con one of the hobennan here owing to saca arm, for so blof cuanto “power” the have.

after of esey, the are of bringador rebel owing to bay, enter in one nissan sentra color grey cu number a-42250, y still is zwaai they arm rond for blof everybody eybanda cuanto “guts” they have, y cu they're intemible.

but police owing to achieve know all the detayenan here, incluyendo informe is cual of the hobennan have the arm, y where the vehiculo is bayendo.

two unidad of police owing to lever caya, y owing to cuminza busca on lloyd g. smith boulevard, y one bit east of royal plaza mall, they owing to present of surprise on the vehiculo, y everybody in the car owing to achieve they're hoist hand cu “hands up”.

police owing to detene the hobennan in the vehiculo, y owing to achieve know cu the car is pertenece at one adres at coba mud.

police owing to throw view, y owing to come achieve the arm cu his balanan poni in dje.
because; cu eybanda had much person sober on caya, police owing to opta for mobiliza at once of the area, y owing to bay cu the hobennan for keep of police, where they all owing to worde encarcela.

they will bay happen one bad pasco, y kizas even year new is loer eye in scuridad of cel of police.

* * *

Three young men bring firearm when paying a call on a relative.


Online Pap translation:

three joncuman owing to bay visit person but
cu arm in they power

oranjestad (aan): first, during, y after of pasco, the rapportnan of police is reporta cu provided that general, the cantidad of asistencia policial solicita was abao, compara cu añanan anterior.

is immidiately aki-aya was have caso cu owing to stay atende, among another tuesday marduga.
central of police owing to dirigi patrol of oranjestad at one cas in caya sint vincent. informe will is indica cu have one are of young in one cas, cual one of they will is in position of one arm of candela.

patrol cu owing to present via-via owing to worde informa, at the cas police owing to talk cu owner of cas y according his version enberdad one are of young owing to come visit his niece. y one of the bishitantenan will have one arm.

but apparently the are also owing to notice presencia of police y they owing to leave at careda bandona the cas. police also did take notice of one are at careda, the agentenan owing to core behind they y owing to succeed grab three young. they inicialnan is m.e. of 15 year, b.l. of 16 year, y j.m. of 17 year.

police owing to listra the trio y on none owing to achieve arm. probably esun of cuatro cu owing to succeed scapa for of grab policial not owing to worde localiza.

the caso is worde investiga more deep.

* * *
Alert tourist(s) apparently save a local, sleeping (?) on the beach, from possible drowning?


Online Pap translation:

several tourist owing to see the sucedido….

muher owing to send car for of baranca at mouth ugly y scapa milagrosamente

oranjestad(aan): one muher cu was have problem cu his casa owing to send one car for of baranca at costanan panort of we island.

this was just one some east of mouth ugly where turistanan was witness of thing cu owing to happen.
police owing to bay at the lugar while cu ambulance y bomberonan also owing to worde notifica of the caso here.

at once they owing to send they unidadnan at the lugar y at arrival owing to come across cu one muher sleep on the beach close eybanda. turistanan is tell cu they owing to see con the muher owing to send the car for of baranca.

the muher was come cu velocidad high y without as at cuenta owing to immidiately fly cu the car at water.
 
according informacion the muher of surname r live at cashero y cu conocirnan at balashi have problem cu his man.

in the season here of union familiar much person not can live cu the situation here y pesey self have trip they're take such decision.
ambulance owing to bay cu the muher urgente for hospital cu cortanan at curpa door of the lama bruto cu owing to batie in baranca intentando for leave back for of lama.

at hospital past owing to achieve atencion medico y kizas yudanza also for her problem cu the was have cu owing to conduci at such decision.

past owing to scapa milagrosamente of the sucedido.

* * *

Any work permits demanded for this should be met with condemnation by Arubans who are tired of dope dealing, human trafficking, gambling and prostitution whose worthiness is lauded by the likes of Bon Dia, Amigoes, ArubaToday, etc., whose silence on the subject is evidence of their unspoken praise of all things evil.

Oh Nuts. I forgot to copy/paste today's Diario articles at the M&C thread.

klaas, CBB, OBS, anyone -- Can you Quote it over to M&C? It's a bit long, and you know how the tags don't stay ... TY.


I'll get it - nevermind, ******* beat me too it, lol  :lol:

I think we are a little past that at this point.  It is time to start meeting these jerkoffs with a little violence.

Would love to see Joe T's, Rosemary A's and foresic whatever Archer's work permits!

It sounds like suicide is a national pasttime in Aruba.  Young people, old people and hard-working, honest people should stay away from that evil place.  There must be something in the water that makes people so evil, so depressed, so bent on killing themselves or someone else.

I don't know much about the work permit thing on Aruba, or about the money involved with this search.

Having said that - if the crew is volunteering their time (which is my understanding), they aren't taking any paying jobs from Aruba.

Further, Aruba has no one capable of working with the equipment on board, so the technicans aren't taking any paying jobs from Aruba - whether the technicans are being paid or also are volunteering.

Work Permits are to prevent outsiders from taking paying jobs from the locals. It simply isn't an applicable restriction or procedure for this deep water search.

I believe I read early on that Tim Miller invited anyone from ALE to be on board, an invitation that apparently was declined or ignored. Maybe someone has that quote saved.

This is my humble, but nonetheless, educated opinion.

Maybe start strapping bombs on these suicide victims :lol: :lol: :lol:

Msmarple....at one point Deepak was denied a work permit, but now it seems that there are not enough Arubans qualified to work in an internet cafe. :wink:

set a few out on their runways and a few in their 2 major ports and Aruba would be owned.  Hell, a small team of rednecks could probably own Aruba before Jacobs finished his cornflakes.

 :cool:

and before anyone gets their panties all wadded up, that was a joke  :roll:

She's a liar and I see no reason to believe anything that she says! Including Rene was Violent and had multiple other GF'S. The Investigation shows that no way one person let alone a small female could have lifted his body where it was placed. She replied that she had inexplicable force(Super Human Strength) at the time  :roll: Prosecution called her a liar that she did it on her own and we know 2 others were involved. Also the autopsy shows multiple weapons were used but her story only says a machete. Its all BS just like the murder of Dinesh ‘Pitbull’ Djoegan.

Interesting reading today. Well the good news is if the ship finds any chests filled with gold and jewels, then it will belong to Aruba and they will have to print something nice. Too bad the anchor they found probably can't save the country. I'm sure they can give the GPS coordinates and the news paper can sponsor with work permits, a recovery of the anchor.

Totally agree. Will have to put a list together of all the 'deaths' that could be associated with this case. Any thoughts on why Satish was not questioned from 611 to 6/18 except by Judge Wit.

LOL Kiwi!

maybe they can send Paulus and Joran down there to get it   :wink:    :smt045 :smt045 :smt045

Blah, your avi scares me...LOL.....wish we could unleash that kind of fury on Aruba!

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/3177/5/

*******..if you are here, this guy is missing. I had seen his pix in different papers since end of Nov. This isn't related to Joyce.Notice some of the comments mention Natalee.

tamarijn said:

  [pero manera natalie holoway si no ta wordo busca nos aki na aruba no tin balor /b] 

Translation:
But as natalie holoway, if we do not looks for here at aruba, not have value. come across

Thx :wink: I figured that out after I posted the Awemainta article earlier today. I think the article was commenting on missing people in Aruba,as it mentioned Judith Martinez who dissapeared 7 years ago and Natalee.

:smt045 :smt045 :smt045

That article sums up the point of view and the stupidity of Aruba.
The people on the ship are professionals. A determination could be made quickly as to how old anything found was. Anything that was in the sea for two years, ten years, last week, well there would be a difference.
What the heck is it to them where the money is coming from ? It isn't coming from them, is it ?
Anyone that would go to the website and criticize a search for a missing person is out of their minds. The website was set up to provide information on the progress of the mapping and the search,not a platform for the comments ( and rude ones I bet ) of Joran supporters.
Why wouldn't those people want Natalee found, if she can be found ?
Why bring up work permits ?
Theirs is a mindset that is incomprehensible to most reasonable persons. 

Another old article on Rene Van Heyningen. He was black and from San Nicolas so he is not the dutch guy in that photo. The Family was complaining to Diario in Oct 2005
Snip

Victim’s family is none too happy

At the moment when the authorities discovered the body, they checked the house where the victim lived, and there discovered a lot more blood.

To top it all off, a sibling was told that police in Aruba was going to conduct the reconstruction of events this coming Sunday. Now he calls, they tell him that suddenly the reconstruction took place last Thursday evening. And the parents in Aruba are without a vehicle and could not find a way to get to the place. In the end, they couldn’t get there.

Simply said, the families are none too happy with the investigations that are currently taking place in Aruba.

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2005_10_09_archive.html

--------------------------
   
18 years cell in Sabana Basora-murder

ORANJESTAD - The Common Court of Justice of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba eight Yesenia Castillo Helleis guilty to the murder of her friend Rene van Heyningen. The Court convicted the woman yesterday to a prison sentence of eighteen years. The public prosecutor had appealed fifteen years demanded. Helleis denies having committed the murder. (Amigoe)
http://www.korps-politie-suriname.com/nieuws/nieuwsbronnen%20internationaal/archief%20nieuwsbronnen%20internationaal/2006/2006-11-nieuwsbronnen-internationaal/2006-11-nieuwsbronnen%20internationaal.htm

In the trial she said she didn't kill Rene Van Heyningen.

(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7122/renesgfna2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)


in corte superior, yesenia castillo h. now is tell huez cu the not owing to kill rene van heijnigen oranjestad(aan):

monday nightfall did take lugar the caso of apelacion of yesenia castillo h., that owing to wordo acusa of owing to kill his pareha at one form premedita, usando one machete. in corte of first instancia past owing to admiti cu the was esun cu owing to kill rene v.h., usando one machete. the victima was have provided that overall 65 clip at his curpa. autoridadnan, because; also ministerio publico was have much question in the caso here, specialmente mirando the achievement cu they was convenci cu the muher not can owing to carga y throw the curpa his only in cemetery. during tratamento of the caso in corte of first instancia, past owing to splica detayadamente con past owing to comete the crimen y pakico. past owing to tell cu after of did take much abuse of part of his pareha y one discusion cu they was have the night anterior, past owing to lose cabez y cuminza chop his pareha, cu consecuencia cu this owing to fayece. huez some month happen owing to dicta cu y.c.h have to sit one castigo of 12 year, after cu fiscal owing to exigi 18. past owing to apela sentencia of huez y ministerio publico owing to make same. during tratamento of the caso in corte superior monday, the acusado owing to tell huez cu past owing to dicidi of apela the caso, because the not owing to comete the crimen. past owing to tell huez cu was two man, cu past owing to conoce two week first, via his pareha. according y., the hombernan owing to beat at door y ask about for his pareha. past owing to tell they for keep one rato, sinembargo they owing to march enter the cas. they owing to pushe contra the wall y owing to bay arise the victima for of dream. for casualidad the machete was in camber, because the night anterior, y. y his pareha was have one discusion y r.v.h according y. owing to coi the machete y strike the cune in his cara. the machete owing to stay in the camber y one of the hombernan owing to cuminza chop r.v.h. according yesenia, the not can owing to make nothing y ela stop fast of the box of his child of 11 month. past owing to tell huez cu the hombernan constantemente was busca algo in the cas, but they not owing to achieve this. they owing to menaze y owing to bise for her not tell nothing, but algo will can happen cune or his child. yesenia owing to dicidi of not tell nothing y take the blame for thing is the murder, for so proteha his self y his child. huez owing to puntre dicon now if past owing to come fast y count ; the berdad. past owing to tell cu the not can owing to wanta more in jail, sintando one castigo for algo cu the not owing to comete y sabiendo cu his child will happen several year, without can is cune. huez owing to puntre tocante of the achievement cu some day first cu the asesinato, past owing to take away the machete bay slijp y owing to fill name y number false on the paper cu have to owing to wordo fill. past owing to tell cu past owing to fill cos robez, because the was at telephone y distrai, hour cu the was fill the paper. huez owing to ask about y. for count ; kico owing to sosode after cu the hombernan owing to kill his pareha. past owing to splica cu they owing to stay busca algo y after they owing to place curpa of the victima in his own pickup y owing to bay cune. advocate general owing to trece fast cu was have one cloths poni fast the cortina y owing to tell cu was y. owing to place this, for person not look at kico is sosode in the cas. y. owing to tell huez cu the not owing to place this y cu probably was the hombernan, that owing to make this. advocate general owing to tell cu despite cu the also is think cu was have more person in the caso here, specialmente mirando cu two agent policial self was have problem for hoist y carga the curpa, the is of opinion cu the muher is esun cu owing to kill he. past owing to tell cu the muher his declaracion for thing is the reconstruccion of the caso, was mucho good y detail during of tratamento of the caso in corte of first instancia. one of the hueznan owing to ask about the acusado if is berdad cu his pareha owing to arrive of bise cu if do you clip a at his throat, the not can bark more, as the self owing to decalara some month happen. y. owing to tell cu esey niether do not berdad y cu is the self owing to inventa this. advocate general owing to tell also cu police owing to achieve fingerprint on one box, cu do not neither of the victima neither of the acusado, but alas recherche not owing to follow investiga this, probably because y. owing to confesa cu was the owing to comete the acto criminal. according advocate general, the is believe cu mirando various declaracion cu the victima was have relacion cu another muhernan, y.

will owing to comete the acto debi at sentimentonan of jaloezie. advocate general owing to tell cu the is achieve the castigo ask for fiscal in corte of first instancia of 18 year mucho much, sinembargo past owing to tell cu the castigo of 12 year cu past owing to achieve is mucho bit. pesey past owing to ask one castigo of 15 year. advocate de sousa representando y. owing to tell huez cu have mucho indicacion cu his cliente not owing to comete the murder. past owing to tell cu family self of the victima not can owing to believe cu was y. owing to kill rene. past owing to splica cu at various ocasion the pareha was have problem cu another, but always the muher owing to saca rene for of cas y the was bay close his mother, till hour cu they fix bek cu another. this during of the several añanan cu they was have cu another. y. not have to y then not owing to kill his pareha, because always the was have another opcion. near of this is much cla cu y not can owing to arise the curpa his only, or carga this for place in cemetery. the advocate owing to trece fast also cu was have one person that owing to tell cu morning trempan first cu the crimen owing to sosode, was have two man cu is peace the descripcion of the hombernan cu according y. owing to kill rene, that owing to puntre where the cemetery of sabana broom is stay. according y. one of the hombernan was have one acento colombiano y the another was have one acento of child of corsow. de sousa owing to tell huez also cu in the caso here have mucho doubt of thing owing to sosode y so do you not can give y. one castigo, because all cos is indica cu the not owing to kill rene, but past owing to lie at first instancia, because they owing to menaza the y his child. bao of yoramento y. owing to ask the hueznan for they not dune one castigo for algo cu the not owing to comete. huez owing to tell cu the will give his sentencia on 31 of october for 10:45 at corsow y fax this after for aruba. come across

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2006/10/17/local/news1.php

Just a reminder, that the Murder & Crime thread has information about the cases y'all are rehashing.

The Summary (see my sig line) has everything we know of through December 2006. In most cases, more details are available on the previous pages, and you can roughly go by the dates of the incidents/posts to find them.

I have not done a summary for 2007 yet. I have a very full plate right now and don't know when I can get to it. The 2007 incidents begin right after the Summary.

I was just there and didn't see much at all about Rene Van Heyningen.

It makes no sense that Aruba is so paranoid about the possibility of Natalee's remains being found.  To keep J2K from being prosecuted....don't think so....has to be more than that.  What or who are they so scared of?  What secrets would be revealed?  They must know that Natalee can sink that rock!  Would they all rather starve to death than reveal what happened to her?
Why was Mos ready to prosecute and then went on  "vacation" only to return and claim he could not?  Sounds to me like he had someone changed his mind for him.  What will Natalee's truth reveal?  Why are they so scared of her?  I am not big on conspiracy theories but what else are we to think?  It has to be bigger than J2K and Sweaty Pig.

Joran is lying his ass off again. He knows that if a real trial took place he would be cooked big time! Imagine all the people that would come out as witnesses that saw or heard him brag about him drugging girls drinks and preying on tourists.
------------------------------------

JOSSY MANSUR TO DANA PRETZER: I have a video tape of Gerald Dompig that they do have sufficient material to bring these boys in on kidnapping and rape. Which would be 8 years imprisonment.

According to Gerold Dompig, the three boys admitted "that they did ‘have sex with’ this girl when she was going in and out of consciousness”. This is a fact.

It's all about money, money, money.  Did the Bible not tell us money is the root of all evil and evil is thy name, Aruba, and evil is thy game, Aruba.

And Dompig is another one that had his mind changed 20 times about what happened.  i always wondered who got to him.  I think maybe they threatened his sone after he mouthed off on TV.  I feel sorry for the woman who was accused of murdering Rene.  Sounds like a set up for sure to me.  You can't believe anything the police, DA or judges do or say.  My thoughts on Satish, they had to keep him from being interviewed, as he was too close to breaking down and telling all he knew.  Judge Wit probably told him what would happen to him if he didn't pull himself together and stick to his story.  

Sorry for all the typos :2doh: 

I wasn't sure I believed in a Hell, but now I know there is one...it's called Aruba.

I saw a interview with Beth recently and she said that early in the Investigation Dompig was close to solving the case almost immediately after taking over. They then took Dompig off the case and put Jan Van Der Straaten back in  :-|

Sounds like she was set up to me also. When it finally went to trial she said she did not do it. Sounds like they had a witness or proof about two men that were involved as well. One of them being Colombian.

Here is an old Gold mine map...real old, lol.
http://www.lago-colony.com/MAPS/aruba_gold_mine_map_1885.htm

JuJu ... it is!  Believe me ... it is!

The Island of Aruba did not anticipate the strength and determination of a mother by the name of Beth Holloway Twitty. By the time that Aruba realized that this amazing woman was not about to be silenced until her quest for answers regarding her precious daughter were answered … it was too late to turn back. It was no longer just about protecting Paulus and Joran in regards to their role in the events that encompass that fateful morning.  It was now about protecting those at all levels of the Aruban/Dutch administrations who were involved in the coverup … it was now about protecting the sons of the elite … it was now about protecting the judiciary … it was now about the implications of exposing Aruba’s dirty little secrets in regards to organized crime … drugs … gambling … prostitution … pornography … money laundering.

Janet

++++++++++++++


http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=investigative&id=3936339
Aruban casino boss had ties to Chicago mob
Thursday, February 23, 2006 | 6:07 PM

... Posner says it was he who voluntarily turned over this casino surveillance tape to Aruban authorities and that he is furious they have allowed ABC News to broadcast it.


Jossy Mansur
DANA PRETZER
July 23, 2007

Dana: One thing that makes my listeners scratch their heads so to speak and wonder, myself included and we'll talk about it again, is the fact of the underage drinking and gambling that had been going on admittedly by young van der Sloot.  Was there ever any discussion or has there ever been any discussion at least of filing some charges as far as that goes?

Jossy:  No, there hasn't been any of that. The authorities have just (inaudible) it aside, they haven't paid any attention to it then and they're not paying any attention to it now and over the past 26 months.  I haven't seen anything in the direction of trying to make some kind of statement that this is not (inaudiable) at least make some sort of a statement that this is not (inaubible) because it is a known fact that as an underage he wasn't supposed to be in the casino, much less in the company of his father. He was there, there are video tapes to prove that and still the authorities haven't done anything with regard to that specific case.

No money is not a problem in investigations from KLPD. There is an researching what around 500 milion euros cost in the Netherlands. Well no problem because Dutch citizens want pay for that. Because the Dutch citizens pay around 6 to 52% for tax.
And investigatings would be pay by the tax.

They have lost money but the corrupt good ole boy network is still in place. The criminals running the corrupt Govt and there friends are all free and immune from any prosecution of any kind and that is whats most important to them. All of them are doing great,PVDS has his own Law Firm,Van Der Straaten has been Chief of Police in Bonaire,Dompig started his own Security Company,Jorge Pesquera accepted a job for more money in Palm Beach FLA,Rudy Croes is waiting to retire in luxury,Minister Lee still has his career and got away with rape...etc etc

JuJu you are right. They have lost more than they have gained in Aruba. They are throwing the island to the wolves. First there was the very public criminal case of Natalee Holloway and the government participation in a cover-up. At this time tourism may have again increased. Now the island is building and developing in a way that the few natural resources they have there will soon be extinct. Aruba seems on a slippery down hill slope.

While it is Aruba who is losing money, it is the Dutch who are guilty in this case. The Aruban's participate, especially the minister of justice, because they are so dirty, and the police and prosecutor are aware, that he has to particpate, IMO.

With the exception of Jossy, not a single Aruban - Dutch or otherwise - has stepped up.

They are ALL guilty, to hell with THEM ALL!

 :smt097 :smt097 :smt096 :smt096 :smt096 :smt077 :smt077 :smt074 :smt074

******* ... is the following the interview which you are referring to?

sirensong ... I believe that the following words of Dave Holloway are right on when you consider Gerold Dompig's public statements which implicate Joran, Deepak, Satish and Paulus in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

Obviously ... Dompig was not conforming to the Aruban agenda ... the Aruban agenda that implied that Joran and Paulus were to be distanced from the events of that fateful morning.  He had to go!

Janet

++++++++++


Beth Holloway Twitty
'Scarborough Country'
October 24, 2005

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: Now, we have a lead investigator, Gerald Dompig, who is coming up—coming out and saying that these three young men are the perpetrators.
 
Initially, van der Straaten was placed on as lead investigator as early as May 31, June 1, 2, 3, 4. And around the 5, van der Straaten was removed from Natalee‘s case by the prime minister. And Dompig was placed as lead investigator, and we were—we welcomed that. We welcomed that, because of the connection that Paul van der Sloot and van der Straaten had. They had a—they‘re very good friends, very, very close.
 
Even—van der Straaten is even Joran van der Sloot‘s godfather. So, when Gerald Dompig was placed on as lead investigator, we were just—we were relieved. And he actually—you know, he was actually beginning to see just what had happened. And I felt—we felt he was getting close to the answer.

And then, suddenly, within a few days, he was off. And van der Straaten was back on board.


Dave Holloway
On the Record w/ Greta
April 6, 2006

VAN SUSTEREN: How about Deputy Chief Dompig?

HOLLOWAY: Dompig, I think he's on the fence. I think he really does but he always mentioned higher-ups. The higher-ups had his hands tied.


Wednesday, April 11, 2007
GEROLD DOMPIG - TRUTH OR DEFAMATION

http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/2007/04/gerold-dompig-truth-or-defamation.html

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2007/03/03/gerald-dompig-in-his-own-words/

I think that Aruba is responsible for their house. Definitely. I think I meant to point out who benefited

I know, I was just looking for a reason to use this smiley   :smt097 and Aruba in the same sentence.

 :wink:

How about some of those fine Americans in Aruba such as Julia Renfro, Mark Purcell and Charles Croes?  Don't tell me they don't benefit just as much from all this as the Dutch who live there.  If not, they are doubly foolish to play along with Rudy Croes and Nelson Oduber who give the marching orders and tie the hands of any who want to investigate anything.

.

Hello my friend :) I saw it recently in last few weeks and it is close to what your transcript says but not the same. I vividly remember her saying that Dompig was close to breaking the case early in the Investigation but they removed him and put back in Van Der Straaten.

:smt097 Julia Renfro
:smt097 Mark Purcell
:smt097 Charles Croes
:smt097 Rudy Croes
:smt097 Nelson Oduber
:smt097 Aruba!!!!


Hi Anna!
 :cool:

Not necessarily, that laundromat is working in overdrive.

... and then there is Spencer Bachus.  He may not live in Aruba but I speculate that this American's betrayal of one of his own as well as ... anguished constituents named Beth and Jug Twitty ... was bought with a price.

A CHANGING OF LOYALITIES.  WHY?

On June 5, 2005 ... Spencer Bachus upheld the family of Natalee Holloway in their contention that the FBI should be "heavily" involved in the Aruban investigation into the disappearance of an American citizen on the island of Aruba.  However ... six months later Bachus was singing the praises of the Aruban investigation as he emerged from a 2 1/2 hour Alabama meeting with the Aruban delegation ... a meeting that the Aruban delegation objected to the family's respresentation being present.

Janet

++++++++++++++++


Spencer Bachus
BIRMINGHAM NEWS
June 5, 2005

U.S. Rep. Spencer Bachus, R-Vestavia Hills, said Saturday there were circumstances surrounding Holloway's disappearance that warranted the FBI being heavily involved. He declined to give details.

"The circumstances were disturbing," said Bachus, who formally requested the FBI's involvement. "I can't get into it, but it's something the family is aware of. There was an immediate recognition that this was not simply a teen who wandered off."


Spencer Bachus
CBS NEWS
December 16, 2005

(AP) Rep. Spencer Bachus said he came away from a Friday meeting with Aruban officials with the sense that they plan to vigorously pursue leads in the disappearance of American student Natalee Holloway.

Bachus, R-Ala., whose district includes Mountain Brook, where Holloway is from, divulged little about the substance of the meeting, saying only it was a "frank and open discussion" and that Aruban authorities have devoted "tremendous resources" to the case.

"Their intention going forward ... is not to shut this case down, but to continue to pursue it vigorously," Bachus told reporters. "They do not consider it a closed case nor do they consider that they have a dead end. They continue to develop information and pursue leads."

Bachus and Alabama officials would not comment on exactly what Richardson, Aruban police analyst Renato Emerencia and Aruban attorney Arlene Ellis Schipper told them about the investigation.

John Quinlan Kelly, a New York-based attorney for the Holloway family, said Natalee Holloway's parents wanted him to attend the meeting, but the lawmaker's office told Holloway's family the Arubans objected to that.


Spencer Bachus
On the Record w/ Greta
December 16, 2005

VAN SUSTEREN: Your gut reaction from the meeting?
Do you feel confident this is the right team to be leading the investigation or would you like to see some changes?

BACHUS: It’s a small island and they are handicapped by their experience.  But I was impressed with what they had done…at least the work product.  I have seen cases…I’ve been to hired to prosecute murder cases where there is almost no file.  I will say that the resources that have been devoted to this case are really probably more substantial than most murder cases here in the United States.

VAN SUSTEREN: Have there been any leaks that have possibly jeopardized the investigation?  You don’t have to go into any details of the actual leaks but did they tell you…are you convinced that anything said so far hurt the investigation?

BACHUS: It is my understanding they were running wiretaps and it was disclosed…

VAN SUSTEREN: Would that be the initial first week before the initial arrest?

BACHUS: This was in the first weeks, that is what they’re telling me.

VAN SUSTEREN: Since that time there have been no other leaks they told you about that hurt the investigation?

BACHUS: I think if anything it is the news media.  Your show and others that probably do result in more…inaudible

VAN SUSTEREN: Okay, thank you sir.

BACHUS: I don’t have any criticism of them...

I see Reality only posts for Robin now at BFN. She should really talk to M1p6 and Reality and ask them why someone would spread mis-information :smt092 :2brickwall:

Any relation?

Freddy Alexander Zedan-Arambatzis, a friend of van der Sloot and the Kalpoes, was arrested on suspicion of having unspecified "physical contact" with a female minor, said his lawyer, Diana Emerencia.

quote Tamikosmom
Bachus and Alabama officials would not comment on exactly what Richardson, Aruban police analyst Renato Emerencia and Aruban attorney Arlene Ellis Schipper told them about the investigation

Well the misinformation, if it is misinformation is coming from somebody posting from the Netherlands. 

Jan Van Der Straaten had retired and Dompig had been made
chief or acting chief.  Van der Straaten sued to be reinstated
as the chief and won the case in court.....wonder who the judge
was?

If a body were really found and reported to the ALE, it most likely would be covered up rather quickly and not put out in the news.  Or put out and retracted just like the confession

Well,that doesn't sound nearly as disturbing as the real charges that he was arrested on/suspected of  :2doh: No idea if those two are related but it's Aruba..So they probably are  :wink:

At Large w/ Geraldo Rivera - 08-27-05
BENVINDA DE SOUZA - ATTORNEY : ... The official charges on Freddy Zedan-Arambatzis are intentionally distribute and show sexual images of a minor; intercourse with someone he knows is unconscious and sexual acts with a girl younger than 16 years.

Robin ... I agree.  My prayer is the justice will prevail for Natalee and ... there will be a measure of closure for her family.

All those who dare cause more anguish to a family ... who for 2 1/2 years has been forced to ride an emotional roller coaster from H--- ... compliments of the "powers that be" in Arub ... are indeed despicable.  They lack a heart ... they lack a conscience.

Janet


Reality
BFN
September 20, 2006

From what I have been reading over the past 15 months, there is absolutely no evidence of foul play


Reality
BFN
August 18, 2006

Those MB Brats, I wonder if they have started talking yet, possibly in the last year, whilst in the real world and away from the bosoms of their Mama's ?


Reality
BFN
June 17, 2006

Interesting post, but how is the conclusion arrived at that Joran was wild ?  From what I have read, seen and heard, this young fellow seems pretty normal, nothing wilder than the MB Kids that were on Aruba.  In fact, a little pussy-cat when compared to kids that age that I have seen and don't even begin to tell me that does not apply to kids from the US.  One has to take much of the slandering of this kid with a pinch of salt, these are enuendos put forth by the Right Wing US Media.


Reality
BFN
June 2, 2006

Aruba is by far the safest island destination in the Caribbean.
Aruba’s judicial system is based on Dutch law, world renowned as a fair and balanced system. 

+++++++++++++++
 

... and then there is Mark Purcell whose primary focus in his despictable posts is upholding Julia Renfro and ... undermining the every word and action of the mother of Natalee Holloway.  However ... the father and stepfather of the missing eighteen year old American are not excluded from condemnation.


Topic: MIP6 and REALITY - are they part of the disinformation team?
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1896.0

I totally agree, Blah.  This whole thing is just more disinformation from the Twilight Zone.

Reality
BFN
September 20, 2006

From what I have been reading over the past 15 months, there is absolutely no evidence of foul play
----------------------------
No wonder why he deletes all his posts  :-x

I thought van der Stratten was out on June 5th, back in the 12th and retired July 15th. IIRC the police got him back in.

One more on Freddy who needs to tell the truth! :lol:

Found this at the judicial inc site under accomplices and had posted in the Shango/Simian thread.

In this interview Jossy Mansur confirms Freddie Arambatzis-Zedan is now being held in prison. Mansur explains that he takes sexual pictures of “unsuspecting” girls and then sells it. The girls are apparently aware and okay with the picture taking, however not with the distribution of them. No offense but I think if you allow someone to take a picture of you, especially one that claims to be “Locoman Pimp”, you should be well aware of his intent. mMansur says this guy was held in the beginning of the investigation and obviously the media was not made aware of this. Jossy says he is probably being held because of a false alibi for Joran van der Sloot he initially gave police.

So was he in prison with Joran at the same time he was faking the drug test? That according to Joran would mean he also did not pass the drug test. According to Joran's lawyer's only Joran and another passed the test. they identified someone that was not a friend of Joran.

(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/23/37423248_7ead6026bb.jpg?v=0)

........it be Freddie?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/joranvandersloot/page8/

Thats a good find Mum! They kept all of the other suspects and witnesses out of the media and they did there best to cover up things like intercourse with a unconscious person.. We know they protected people like Lorenzo,Gottenbo's,Guido,GVC and others and made sure nothing was leaked.

Freddy knows the truth and no doubt in my mind Jan VDS also. The nerve of them allowing Van Der Straaten to win a lawsuit to complete the cover up he started. The conflict of interest was obvious to everyone in Aruba and they all knew he was close friends with the Van Der Sloots.

:shock:

bleachedblack

Is this an update on the Natalee Holloway case?  Did it take place today?  Do you have a link?

Thank you.

Janet

++++++++++

Jossy Mansur
'Scarborough Country'
August 26, 2005

DANIELS:  It definitely smells that way.  You know, if you take the prosecution‘s statement at its face, we are talking on a whole new level, the charges here.  We are talking about drugs.  We are talking about rape and we are talking about rape of many different people.  There are four guys now in custody, four best friends.  What does that tell you?
 
MANSUR:  Well, what it tells me is that, really, these four guys are friends.  They belong to the same group, these party boys that go out and prey on young, unsuspected girls or other kinds of girls also that are out to have a good time, not suspecting what they‘re in for with these predators around.

And they are—they not only appear in photographs together, but I understand that Freddy lives very near to the Joran house.  So, there is a bond between them.   There is a group that they call themselves the pimps, in which all of these participate.
 

No no no the link I gave was to the pic. The caption in the photo caught my eye, and wondered if it referred to Freddie rather than the pic of the Kalpoe pictured as they are not neighbors. Photo was from Jorans Flicker Blog. Link above

PITTSBURGH -- A Pittsburgh woman was the winning contestant on Wheel of Fortune, taking home $18,000 and a trip to Aruba.  :roll: :roll: :roll: :2doh:

Kristin Culan’s "Happy Holidays" episode aired on Channel 11 Wednesday night.

A life-long fan of Wheel of Fortune, Kristin’s first audition was held at Station Square last June. From there she received an e-mail, asking her to attend a hotel audition at the Pittsburgh International Airport.

For several hours, Kristin and other candidates played Wheel of Fortune puzzles and took a written quiz. Once a few candidates remained, Kristin was told she would be notified by mail shortly if she was picked for the show.

As luck would have it, Kristin was selected and taped her episode on Nov. 28 in Los Angeles.

Kristin said the energy in the studio was so intense she felt like she was going to burst.
http://www.wpxi.com/entertainment/14932984/detail.html?rss=burg&psp=news

Hope she makes it home alive.

Yes,the text is referring to Freddy. He was arrested at the same time as the Kalpoes 2nd arrest back in 2005. They added rape charges to everyone involved including Joran in Natalee's case according to the Family Lawyer. I recall hearing at the time that he may have slept over at the Van Der Sloots home the night NH went missing. We know he was released and we were told he left the country of Aruba after that. If he did leave the country then it wasnt for long.

 :lol:

I promised myself I would not but ... I was ready to hop on that emotion roller coaster ride again.   :wink:

Janet

It just boggles my mind how this can be stated with a straight face and Robin cozy up to these liarbags.

Kiwi, I hadn't even thought about what could have happened when he was detained......been too busy trying to find out when. Appears sometime between June 17th and the 23rd. But if it was kept a secret I'm sure the reason why was also a secret.

Thanks ******* what you say rings true with what I recall with the exception of Freddie being the "sleep over" rumor. Maybe you could refresh my memory of on one other thing.......who was arrested and released with the initials "AB" ? Would that be guido? I thought I recall Freddie going by the initials AB? Sorry the more time that passes things that were once clear become less so......

+++++++++

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And you bring up an absolutely important point, is the number of arrests in this case. This would mark arrest number 10. And we even have a graphic for you that can show you all the people who have been brought in and out throughout this process. It`s absolutely astounding.

First we had the two security guards who were brought in. They had alibis -- totally innocent. Then we had Joran Van Der Sloot. He is still a suspect. Then the Kalpoe brothers, of course. Then we had the party boat deejay, who was brought in after the Kalpoe brothers. And after this guy, the party boat deejay, we had Joran`s dad, Paulus Van Der Sloot. And then we had Geoffrey Van Cromvoirt who was caught and released, as Nancy wants to put it. Then a mysterious man by the name of "AB." And then we had this final gentleman, who has been brought in and released.

http://tinyurl.com/y5mjva

Don Clark, former head of Houston FBI, can you put this in a perspective? Have you ever heard of such a thing?

Hmmmm she may get more than she bargained for.

BB:

I'M not exactly sure who A.B. is.  :-? They really screwed up Freddy's name if they are referring to him. However the timing is right and he's the other guy that is up to his eyeballs in all of this. I'M leaning toward the info MUM found and that it is Freddy..Another good poster here says his last name could be boekhoudt but Freddy makes the most sense.

She's pretty attractive but could pass for a local, so she is probably safe.  It seems they have a predisposition for blonds.

Bleached..not *******, but I bought that up last week and ******* said that he was really sure that it was not Freddy. I had seen Freddy Aaron Batzis on the Abram's Report transcript when he was arrested with the Kalpoes in August 2005

OK thanks *******, I wasn't sure who AB was either, thought I had forgotten

hmmm that sounds possible thanks.

No,I said I wasnt sure because someone else was telling me his last name is boekhoudt and he was sure that was A.B.. The only connection I see at the moment is Freddy and that Abrahams Transcript.

http://www.zorpia.com/alvaro1

Help me out here *******... that would mean Freddy was arrested 4 times! June, August and IIRC February and April. If indeed it was him with GVC.
All over making a movie!!!!

******* Thanks...I misunderstood when we mentioned it last. Don't do well posting in the evening...morning person here.

Freddy was questioned 4 times between June 12th and 18th when Satish wasn't questioned once. :shock:

Freddy was arrested all of those times, but was he
ever prosecuted?

I am only aware of his Aug 2005 arrest and now that article that said he was arrested in the beginning. But if he is A.B. also then you must be correct. Making Movies,Sex with Unconscious girls,Sex with Minors,Distributing Photo's of underage girls,witness to a murder and cover up. He obviously had something to do with the new info that led to the Kalpoes 2nd arrest. That is when they added Rape charges on there list of suspicions on what they did to Natalee.

I'M very puzzled about GVC because they had that shirt in the first week Natalee went missing but didnt arrest him for a year later. We have all seen the reports and taco telling us on National TV that the VCB shirt is his and it's linked to Natalee's dissapearance.

No,and I have not seen one person charged for any crime that we have talked about in this case. Having sex with unconscuious girls is a serious crime as we know Andrew Luster will serve the rest of his life in prison for doing that,but they chose not to  Prosecute Freddy or any of his Pimp friends. Remember GVC was also arrested on drug charges and he was never prosecuted for that either. Lorenzo was caught red handed with over 100 MJ plants and should have done 3 years in prison. But somehow his private mediation with a Dutch Judge gave him immunity.

 Drugs are nothing there...only Lorenzo gets arrested for drugs.
 Freddy's charges were pretty significant anywhere but Aruba.

Don't really know for sure. Did just read that he was released really quietly on September 2nd 2005.

*******..I think the one Jossy is talking about is June 2005. August with the Kalpoes and April with GVC. The Discovery Log has him being questioned in February 2006 and I thought he was detained then too. Will see what I can find in the morning.

I believe Anna is correct, ALE made them all suspects so their lies don't count. Don't understand the GVC one either.

Right, Magnolia,

Prosecution and trial are considered last ditch efforts with any sort of fine, negotiation, restitution, community service, etc. being preferable to prosecution and conviction and having to house even more in their over-crowded jails.  Sort of like our own early release for good behavior, they don't have to actually go to trial if they will plead guilty and work out a deal with the judge or serve probation only, etc.

Their system does not see convictions as the ultimate in obtaining justice they way that ours does.

.

I believe both Freddy and Lorenzo were detained for questioning around the June 9th arrest of JK2. Probably right after the failed attempt to frame the two security guards.The shirt with the reported dna on it,styraphone with teeth marks,sunglasses and "suspicious substance" in the lysol bottle were found on June 6th 2005. But GVC wasnt even questioned until April 2006?? Thats hard to believe! :wink: They never said those things found in the colony area were not related to Natalee's dissapearance. If anything they made everything found even more suspicious.

Was it not Freddy who Anita and Paulus summoned to their home and questioned in regards to what was said in his interrogation?

Jossy Mansur implies in the 'Scarborough Country' interview that Freddy was questioned in the initial stages of the investigation.

What are the basis of suspicion in regards to the A.B./Freddy connection?

Janet

+++++++++++++

FREDDY - INITIAL INTERROGATION - JUNE 29, 2005

Karin Janssen
'The Abrams Report'
June 29, 2005

JANSSEN: ... And secondly, the father and the mother have asked a friend of Joran, the suspect, the minor suspect, to come to their home to tell them what he has explained to the police. That is, well, I can say, was an obstruction of the investigation.


FREDDY - DETAINED AUGUST, 2005

Jossy Mansur
'Scarborough Country'
August 26, 2005

MANSUR: Well, if there is a master plan, we will know about it soon enough.

What I do know is that Freddy was questioned at the beginning with relations to the Natalee Holloway case. He offered an alibi, I believe, to protect Joran. And then he was released. And now he‘s arrested as a suspect of selling photographs. Maybe they are aiming to get to him through this photo business back to the Holloway case.


A.B. - QUESTIONED APRIL, 2006

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,193408,00.html
Aruba Prosecutor: Hundreds Questioned in Natalee Holloway Case
Thursday, April 27, 2006

Police have said nothing about their latest arrest, of a 20-year-old man, identified by prosecutors by the initials A.B. He was released after six hours of interrogation on Saturday.


NANCY GRACE
Suspect Released by Aruban Police
Aired April 24, 2006 - 20:00:00 ET

GRACE: Back to Jossy Mansur, the director and editor of "Diario Magazine." Jossy you`re there on the scene. What possible connection was there between A.B., the last catch and release and the investigation of Natalee Holloway?

MANSUR: You know, I can`t imagine what kind of connection it could have. I know that this person that they`ve arrested and questioned for six hours has a Web site in which he appears, in which you`ll find pictures of Joran and many other girls. Maybe there is some kind of a connection that the police want to know or the prosecution as to what degree does he know these people and what would he know about the Holloway case itself? …

GRACE: Dave, did you get your hopes up when you found out Von Cromvoirt had been taken into custody and then A.B. or E.B., they are changing the initials on us, over the weekend had been taken into custody, only to find out they had both been released?

HOLLOWAY: No. That question was asked and posed of me last week when he was first arrested. Someone asked me, are you getting your hopes up high and I said, no, I`ve seen this process occur a number of times before. Arrest someone, talk to them, and then release them. And it`s a pattern that, I`m hopeful that this is a stepping stone. Maybe he provided some good information, who knows.

I believe that Freddy was questioned and released in the initial stages of the Natalee Holloway investigation but ... his detainment in August ... at the same time as the Kalpoes rearresst ... was apparently unrelated to the Natalee Holloway case.

Janet

++++++++++

Diana Emerencia - Freddy's Attorney
Decatur Daily News
August 31, 2005

Freddy Alexander Zedan-Arambatzis, a friend of van der Sloot and the Kalpoes, was arrested on suspicion of having unspecified "physical contact" with a female minor, said his lawyer, Diana Emerencia.

Zedan-Arambatzis, 21, is also suspected of photographing the girl in "tempting poses" and showing the images to other people, Emerencia said.

The Kalpoe brothers and van der Sloot are also suspected of involvement in the incident, which allegedly occurred before Holloway disappeared, she said.

The "deal with the judge" is the part that bothers me.  Buy out in my opinion.

We know the professional baseball player was allowed to pay a fine for beating up a judge instead of serving time in prison as prescribed by law. 

The prosecutor is only obligated to prosecute if he/she determines it to be in the best interest and service of the public at large.

The Prosecutor is an officer of the court who represents justice and is to be neutral, representing neither the victim nor the defendant/suspect.  Apparently the Prosecutor can also work out arrangements short of a trial and then if it comes to a trial, the judge can also negotiate some sort of settlement of the issue short of a conviction and jail sentence as was done with the baseball player who only paid a fine and was perhaps on probation for a bit.

I guess Aruba needs fines and money more than additional prisoners.  I have a problem with all this being worked out in secret.  How do we know who gets the  money--the governement or the judge in reality?



.

Isn't this one of the girl's Freddy is thought to have photographed? Her  she is dancing with joran and sanders?

(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/18/23790186_7fb9b42909.jpg?v=0)

I think that is Larissa.  Thought Freddie photographed one of the Karens but don't think we want to show her photo.

.

Is this her second day to be missing?  I don't recall her saying anything about being sick so maybe she has holiday company?

.

The Holiday Inn fabrication had been related to Freddy by Joran prior to Beth and Jug Twitty arriving on the Island.

Janet

+++++++++++++++

Freddy Arambatzis
Joran's Book
June 12, 2005

Monday afternoon on the 30th, Joran came to my house.

He told me that the previous day, Sunday, he had befriended a girl in the Holiday Inn casino and that she had invited him to come to Carlos and Charlies that evening. He went and they danced and drank together.

After that he, Deepak Satish and the girl drove off. Her friends saw that. The drove in the direction of the Lighthouse; a white car was behind them and most likely wanted to race Deepak. But that is something Deepak would never do. Joran told me that he fingered and had french kissed the girl while they were driving. He did not say that he had had sex with her.

They drove to the Lighthouse, she wanted to see sharks. But Deepak only drove up to the Lighthouse because his car is very low to the ground and cannot drive up to the North side of Aruba.

The girl had said to Joran that if Deepak and Satish would have lived in her town, they would be slaves.

After that they drove to the hotel. When the girl had pushed open the door of the car, she fell to the ground. Joran wanted to help her but she shoved him away.

The next day, Tuesday May 31st 2005 in the afternoon, I was with Joran at the raquetclub. Joran looked worried. He asked me if I could remember what he had said the previous day about the girl. I told him yes. The girl had gone missing. The FBI had been to his house during the night but he had not been home. His father had called him to find out where he was, Joran said that he was in the Raddison Casino. He told he that after that phone call he was called on the phone by Deepak and that Deepak picked him up a few minutes later. They drove to Joran's house. The FBI and the girls family were at his house. After that Joran told me that Deepak, Satish and himself did not drop off the girl at the Holiday Inn Hotel, but that the four of them drove to the beach at the north side of the Marriot Hotel. The girl had fallen several times on the way to the beach. Joran told me that at some point she "no longer came around/no longer regained consciousness" and that they had left her on the beach. He also told me that he had left his gym/sporting shoes on the beach. After Joran had told me this, I asked him why he had left her there. He answered me that at that moment he had not known what to do. Joran told me that after this he was dropped off at home by Deepak and Satish.

Translation Credit: Rammstein

San went back to work.  Not sure where she is tonight, probably out partying, LOLOL  :lol:

The girl had fallen several times on the way to the beach. Joran told me that at some point she "no longer came around/no longer regained consciousness" and that they had left her on the beach.


he never left her on the beach........

ITS A LIE

Still at work but was checking in for any updates on the ship. You all have some very interesting discussions going on! I thought I followed this case pretty closely in the beginning, but I didn't realize Freddy had been arrested more than once!

Freddy knows exactly what happened the night Natalee went missing.

yea, ok crapface boy  :roll:


she fell severa times????

what the hell does that mean ??

let me put my footprint on this

you HIT her several times

nobody falls several times..

they might fall once and when someone sees how UNSTEADY they are

they DO SOMETHING about

your a LIAR and youre not even a very good one
you are just like your father

"

I don't know where people are getting Jamie from, It is reported that it was Freddie that was arrested....he was the guy who stayed at Jorans that night and pamy - I read that freddie left early that night, so he may not have been there when natalee and her friends were at c&c but he would have been at Jorans when he got home.

Posted by: aoife24 | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 02:32 PM"

http://tinyurl.com/3656re

I agree, Robots.

Who watches a person fall down several times and does nothing?  That is totally unacceptable.

.

yep, the first time someone falls... thats one thing BUT several times

my goodness...joran is a terrible liar and his friends that parrot his lies are IDIOTS

my take on the whole thing is they were laughing as she kept falling and they probably
were kicking her... we must remember these jerks treat women horrible
they dont care about them.

ANITA the BEAST must be so proud of her delicious killer  :-x :-x :-x :-x

She needs to report to us.  She knows better than to not let us know.  Why some Aruban might be out partying and we would never know what happened to her.

There is a video that is new to me posted at the Search site.  I don't know how to copy and move a video but here is a link to the site.  It's the newest post.

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

This morning, I saw your post asking the same question....was going to respond that San was probably asleep, but figured as I read along someone would have.......

Income is a necessity to most of us :wink:...we do notice when she's not around....how can we not??

As far as I know it was Dan Riehl who confirmed that Freddy spent the night at the Van Der Sloots the day Natalee dissapeared.

Dan Riehl has "Natalee Holloway: New Arrest Expected Saturday."

    According to sources on the island, along with today's arrest of Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, Freddie ("Locoman Pimp" slow loading time) Arambatzis-Zedan (dark hair - top three pictures) aka badboy_956, authorities will apprehend Jamie Carrasquilla tomorrow for allegations unrelated to the disappearance to Natalee Holloway.

    Confusion over Freddy's last name is said to result from naming conventions which can be difficult for some to interpret. Apparently the name of both parents or their family names are taken at birth and Zedan may be Freddy's Mother's maiden name.

    The arrests are said to be related to an incident that occurred back in April of this year. There are conflicting stories as to the alleged incident. One local news person is said to have stated that the incident involved a gang rape of an unidentified accuser.
----------------------------
I was able to confirm through another independent party that there was an individual who spent the night at Joran's apartments the night of Natalee Holloway's disappearance - and he has been questioned a number of times.
----------------------------
Reports are coming in that Fox is announcing the re-arrest of the Kalpoes and an individual identified as "Freddie." That individual is known to me as a good friend of Joran Van der Sloot who allegedly stayed over at the apartments of Joran on the night of Natalee Holloway's disappearance

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/08/natalee_hollowa_62.html

Thanks, Anna....I think ******* posted this earlier today.

there have been more than l,000 hits at that site since ll:30 a.m. today.  i'd sure like to be with them out there. 
dennisintn

But Freddie also has the alibi of the all-night family reunion.

The source for that was scubajap.   :roll:

Melody claimed Freddie spent the night at Joran's so I wonder who Dan's alleged second source was, if any.

Nothing is ever clear as to what happened.  Has to be by design.  For every fact, there is oddly an opposing fact.  Strange place where you can't ever get a straight answer to anything.

. :2doh:

The suspect was shown/informed that he had stated that he and the girl went for a walk. And that there was a statement of someone that saw Deepak Kalpoe's car at a location that was several hundred yards away from the Fishermans hut.He was asked about the logic of this and other issues and whether he can explain why he was there with the other boys in that particular location.
The suspect did not respond.[/color]

Sorry.  Guess I missed it.

Klaas, feel free to delete my post.


dennisintn,

It looks a little choppy to me.  Would have to get one of those pirate patches, lol, so wouldn't get seasick.

.

.

I think Freddy was a lie that Melody told to make it sound as though Joran had a guest.  I seriously doubt this occurred.  I always doubted it even when she colluded with Dan to make everyone think Joran was innocent after Dan's merger with Paulus and AHATA.

Is this the ruins of a shipwreck they were discussing earlier.

The water on the video seemed more rough than I would imagine but then, it could be the area they were in at that time.  Seems there is a lot of data to check....hope their efforts are fulfilled in some way.

And Anita to make it appear that nothing happened at the Sloot house.

The video just showed the ship and various parts of it & crew...mostly water view, imo....no shipwreck that I saw.

:o Ahh that explains what happened..LMAO!! Well I certainly wasn't waiting in line to ask Scuba Jap questions..lol! I just refreshed my memory a bit the last few days about some of the last posts from Dan and Harry Ho. Very disturbing!! It's like Dan completely lost all sense of reality  :cool:

lost sense of reality....same as selling out....hating competition....otherwise known as making up crap or lying. jmho  :P

We have an expression for that in the South - don't we for everything?

It's called flying too close to the cotton, if you get my drift, lol!

Lost all sense of ethics.  Money talks and ethics walks.

hhhmmmmmmm... my thought print says the following

"joran knows what he did to Natalee and the police are getting close so better to blame it on someone else at this point"

"joran the detective " is so stupid he gives himself away all the time


who is dumber joran deepak or satish ?

Freddie ratted out Joran pretty well which makes me tend to believe he was not along the night Natalee disappeared.  First he says Joran told him about her being Missing on Monday, a day too soon.

Then the part about Natalee falling down repeatedly, that can't have helped Joran at all.

Maybe Freddie was trying to work out one of those deals because of his own crimes with the under-aged girl.  Oh, but wait!  Couldn't have been because we all know there are no plea bargains in Aruba, they are much too virtuous for such things as that.  HA!

Well, everything he said hurt Joran and the Kalpoes did report having borrowed his camera for some reason or other about that time.  Everything he said was harmful to Joran for some reason.  But I still doubt he ever told the actual truth, at least not all of it.

That Harry Ho was one sicko, too.

.

hmmmmmm

Klaas or CBB...can one of you help me change back into my regular monkey clothes, with the little yellow bow? I cant seem to find it!!    :sad:
Ty!!
GabbyG

I'm not sure if I have it either, I'll ask CBB.

Gabby? I'm just now getting ready to go home from work. I'll look for it when I get there if Klaas doesn't have it.  :wink:

everyone close their eyes when Gabby changes  :wink:

And still the Kalpoes won't tell what happened. 

yep. and it seems to me that 1 of the K2 is in this deep and the other one knows it

I used to think it was Deepak but not so sure any more now that we know Satish was certainly not sleeping.

.

HER IS A BIG TIP from SATISH


On you question how can I explain this, I will answer you the following:
How Joran and the missing girl walked immediately onto the beach. If Joran went in another direction afterwards, that I would not know because Deepak and I immediately drove away.

yep

went away in another direction to ANOTHER CAR :cool:

Interesting what these two dutch posters had to say about Joran saying Deepak raped and killed Natalee and the Aruba-Bay Video's

Translated
http://forum.fok.nl/topic/837319/6/50#37500682
Okay, the above story is apparently by some sort of scoop-horny idiot invented. An sich is that the attached 'note' in Dutch is already defective strangely enough, since even Aruban police for such a document would take even more time.

Secondly, it seems to me quite suspicious that something after so much time only above water, while her mother Himmler SS though the whole world has sent to junk on Joran on digging. It surprises me that they blowt the fact that he has not yet in connection with this case. According to American standards blowers are indeed practical serial killers.

And thirdly ... I know Joran somewhat personally and believe me. If that guy can murder a girl, I Ali Chemicali
Posted by  Slappertje
Vincent Vega
------------------------------------------------
Mysterious Videos create even more questions.
     At the beginning of the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee, some videos posted on an Aruban website, aru-bay.com, people to see that a place to explore in the vicinity of the lighthouse.

     The videos can be seen that the police in the search is in the vicinity of a few large rocks
     The videos are made the day after Aruban and Dutch authorities have made a clear message that Natalee was dead, and that they would return the body.
     The videos were already on the Internet, but until now there has been little attention by the media. Although you may ask whether the videos are convincing, they say a lot of questions.

     Click on the videos to see.
     Video 1, Video 2, 3 video, video 4, 5 video, video 6, 7 video, video 8

Is this the place where Natalee's body was found? Curiously, these videos are plenty!
In video # 8 at 1min. 34sec. Is vague make sure that the person with his back to the camera, a hand / arm?! Pick up, packs and back down. (On the left side of the person who sail uitspreid with his back to the camera.)
It could be that they Natalee's body and found it to have no one like to tell. It may be that because Papa van der Sloot was good friends with the head of police at the time of Natalee's disappearance, the police her for his good friend has to disappear.

I find it remarkable that such persons who may be, there is a lot of interest in something in the rocks that one needs to pull off the canvas to cover! If this Natalee, it is possible that this would be the place where the three boys have brought her, raped her, and she is deceased.

Joran was no longer and told his interrogators that something bad had happened, and told them where the body was? Papa van der Sloot has asked for some favors in his politievriendjes?

http://forum.fok.nl/topic/837319/11/25

Also I can explain that there was a time that when I was with my brother Deepak and Joran and his father was also there, Joran said “if a body is found that we are in big trouble”.  My brother and I said to Joran that is impossible because we had done nothing. Joran said then laughing, “Yes, yes you are right”.  
 :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Another translation from April 2006
   
THE HAGUE - The new suspect in the case surrounding the disappearance in Aruba American toeriste Natalee Holloway, Guido W. , Will be released today. He is still classified as suspicious. That says his lawyer Gerard Spong.

     The Spong announced interim measures that should prevent extradition to Aruba, is the job. Spong says that his arguments have convinced the public prosecutor. According to Spong is a testament to lean to W. To deliver. In addition, he is every day by police in Utrecht, where he stuck since last week Wednesday, after hearing, and the questioning filmed so that the judiciary in Aruba on the images.

     Previously Spong said that W. Aruba should not be extradited because he is afraid as homosexual in prison 'traumatic experiences' to do.

     Justice in Aruba wild W. Get to the island because the possible criminal offences that have been committed. W. Suspected of complicity to murder or manslaughter or grievous bodily injury of Natalee Holloway.

     The American teenager disappeared on May 29 last year vanished during her vacation in Aruba. Justice is convinced that she was murdered. The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot serves as main accused, but was released for lack of evidence.

     W. Was briefly after missing interrogated several times: three times in Aruba and two times by police in The Hague, to which he shortly after the loss of Natalee moved. He was a croupier in Excelsior Casino in the Holiday Inn hotel where Holloway on the evening of her disappearance along with Joran van der Sloot was seen.

     W. Is the son of an Aruban politician: the chairman of the Aliansa / MSA, a party that last year participated in the September parliamentary elections.

(Het Parool)

     Quote:
     'Guido knew Natalee not'
     By MAAIKE RUEPERT

     AMSTERDAM - Guido W. (19), Wednesday in The Hague has been arrested in connection with the disappearance of Natalee ...

     Suspect Guido W.
     ... Holloway, the missing American had not. That says W. 's lawyer Gerard Spong. ,, Natalee Holloway He has never met,''says Spong.

     Spong did yesterday also know that W. Today again at liberty, but still is regarded as suspicious.

     W., who is suspected of complicity in the abduction and mistreatment and murder of Holloway, was apprentice croupier at the casino in the hotel where Holloway during her stay in Aruba stayed. On May 29, 2005, the evening before her disappearance, he was at work confirms Spong. After Holloway's disappearance is W. Five times heard as a witness.

     His arrest followed several incriminating statements that former colleagues from the casino in February on W. Have made. What the casinomedewerkers about his client against the police have said, let Spong not lost. Yesterday told a member of the Excelsior Casino in this newspaper that W. The day after Holloway's disappearance worrying at work appeared. He then held area a few days earlier on his work than was planned.

     Spong says he is the allegations that he "quite easy" can rebut. Justice in Aruba wants it as soon as possible to the island will be transferred for interrogation. Public Prosecutor Karin Janssen refuses to comment.

     W. Is a well-known of the three suspects who were last seen with Holloway. Joran van der Sloot is a good friend. They know each other from the tennis club and evening entertainment. They, too, are suspected of kidnapping and murder of Holloway, but due to lack of evidence on free feet.

     Holloway's mother, Beth Twitty voted against CBS News said to have been shocked by the news of the arrest. ,, It does not seem like the new arrest the three suspects old no longer play, but that the group of suspects around Natalee's disappearance only bigger.''

http://forum.fok.nl/topic/837319/12/25

Joran said “if a body is found that we are in big trouble”.

Klaas,
 When you have a minute, can you please, change Magnolia to her
regular self.  It is bad luck to have your Christmas decor on after New
Year's Eve.
I have no sense about changing it.

Same is true in December 2007 if they find Natalee. The idiots and the failed judge alluded to many times that Natalee hit her head or may have hit her head. We heard Jug confirm that last week with Dana. It must have been a terrible injury and forensics will confirm that if she is found.

yep

Could ya do away with my Christmas duds too? Thanks

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/originals/GabbyG.jpg)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/originals/GabbyG.jpg

There you go, Gabby!

JuJu? This is what I have for you............is that right? Maybe Klaas has something different.

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/originals/jujuxmas.gif)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/originals/jujuxmas.gif

FORGOT TO PASTE IT!  :lol:

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/originals/magnolia.gif)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/originals/magnolia.gif

I can't change anyone, but I can help Klaas find the avatar!

I fixed Gabby, Magnolia and JuJu  :wink:

TY very much CBB!!  And TY too Klaas!!
I appreciate the help very much! I will be sure to save this one where I can find it   LOL

I know, I think you're practicing to be a Vet.  :wink:

Thank you both.....I feel like my old self again.

yes please   :shock: :silent:

and TY for your thoughtfulness kind sir robots    :) :D

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:

Sorry to go off topic, but wasnt this kid in the obits a few weeks ago?
http://www.24ora.com/content/view/3177/5/

I thought he was a missing person.

I just became aware of him today,but the article I posted earlier today I assumed he was missing. It mentioned Natalee and  Judith Martinez who dissapeared 7 years ago without a trace.
(http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/1641/awemainta5bq4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

*******,....what does it say?

Haha..I have no idea  :-| I would love to read that as well..Maybee Klaas can tell us what it says  :lol: It look's interesting as he is talking about the DNA tests and the Info that Peter De Vries provided.

I could be wrong, and have been before, but I look at the obits every day in the diario, and swear he was in there.  I remember the "Dakota" area, because it was a very dangerous part of town.  Gangs.  I am looking now to see if I can find it.

I didn't know that Wit was an ex-judge.
It is from Bondia, so it will be favorable to Wit and
the Sloots.

I tried to translate the recent comments and it looks like he is still missing. One of them was asking God to bring him home I think.  Another was telling them to be patient.

coleganan di kia  said:is pesey self we not can make nothing anything we have of make ask father god for his return pace the only know where the door and we tinele in prayer come across, for his familia we is ask for have much compel and much confidence come across. we of kia also is preocupa come across!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-----------------
december 16, 2007 sharine f said: _ we is wait for gobierno of aruba can give one hand for cu the perdida of jose manuel tromp the is one jui of mother and is aruban clean we is wait for cu this if they can take action cu the buskeda because of nathally holoway they owing to make all they erfuerzo for we aruban also i am wait for cu they can make meskos for cu his majornan can is trankil if all juda can come one solucion pricipalmente gobierno that is my comentario and i am wait for cu they can succeed haje jose manuel tromp for his famianan can happen the dianan of party here feliz cu they jui thanks a lot

Thanks, *******.

I guess the search warrant changed by itself then if Bob Wit didnt change it. According to De Vries the officers were shocked when they arrived to do a full search of the property and found out it was restricted just to Jorans bedroom and a  small part of the property.

What happened to the search warrant when PVDS was arrested on similar charges a week later? I guess that just dissapeared all together? Since when do Murder and Kidnapping suspects get immunity from having their property searched? IF WIT DIDNT CHANGE THE WARRANT THEN WHO DID? If WIt is saying thats all the Prosecuters asked for was Jorans Bedroom and the 2 cars,then they have some major explaining to do!

Another article about Bob Wit in todays Amigoe.

  No alternatives for travel ban

WILLEMSTAD – Bob Wit calls the brushing off of last month’s Antillean travel ban by the Supreme Court ‘a black day for the fight on criminality in Curacao’.  “The Supreme Court took the decision on extremely debatable ground and without any argumentation”, said Wit.

The former judge in the Joint Court of Justice of the Antilles and Aruba and currently in the Caribbean Supreme Court is the person that in July of 2004 imposed the ban as special stipulation for the drug couriers sentenced to conditional imprisonment; during their probation, drug courier are banned from traveling from any part of the Kingdom (especially from Curacao) and the public prosecutor confiscate their passport for that period of time.   

Up till the decision of the Supreme Court on November 6, the OM confiscated and returned after the probation period, a few thousand passports.  Wit says that the travel ban was part of a ‘very careful, well thought-out, humane, and nonetheless or perhaps therefore extremely successful punishment mete out policy of the judicial power of the Dutch Caribbean’ that the Supreme Court did away with ‘in one sacral, epileptic sense, obviously without discussing or maintaining any argumentation’.

Wit is of the opinion that the ‘series of words used by the Supreme Court that in the beginning look inscrutable’ have some weak points and pass over the fact that jurisprudence really exists that can impose special conditions to stop suspects from committing the same kind of crimes again.  “If the Supreme Court had maintained his own jurisprudence, he would have never concluded that the special condition of the travel ban is inadmissible.   The travel ban was meant to stop convicts exporting narcotics from Curacao again.”  Wit knows that if the passport is not confiscated, after having been caught with drugs at the airport of Curaçao and not immediately put behind bars, the drug mafia will pressure these drug carriers to try to transport the extremely profitable merchandise to the Netherlands again.   

The introduction of this travel ban has to do with the explosion of the drug transportation, the measures that followed (Hato team and the 100 percent check) the increased number of cases against drug couriers, and the eternal shortage of cells in prison, whereby letting the convict walk around free was more a rule than an exception.  The special condition of the travel ban has been very successful, says Wit.  The number of arrests on Schiphol from Curacao dropped from 415 to 130 in the first quarter of 2005 and to 40 in the third quarter of that same year; this number continued to drop and was even 17 in the second quarter of 2006.   Also the number of murder crimes in Curacao dropped to 50 in 2004 and 25 in 2005.  The Curacao community is since then back to normal, even though it is no oasis still. 

http://www.amigoe.com/english/

This man looks like a pedophile.  Look at his face.  Ugh.

Aruban Authorities Investigate Blood in Car
Sunday, June 12, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba — Authorities investigating the disappearance of Alabama honors student Natalee Holloway were seeking clues on the source of blood found in the car used to transport the missing teen to the beach nearly two weeks ago, Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes (search) said.

"We have found some blood in the car, but we don't know to whom it belongs," he said.

The teen's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, reportedly gave blood to authorities to determine whether the DNA matched that of the samples taken from a silver Honda.

Forensic expert Michael Baden told FOX News on Sunday, "Everyday that passes makes it more ominous,” in referring to the amount of time that has passed since the woman went missing. He added that "the blood in the car could be due to a struggle" and also said of Aruban authorities: "There’s a great pressure not to convict local people.”

An Aruban judge Saturday ordered the three young men who reportedly spent time with Holloway at a lighthouse on an Aruban beach before she disappeared to stay in jail, as Aruba's attorney general and others denied reports that one had confessed and said he would take police to the body.


As rumors mounted about the fate of 18-year-old Natalee Holloway, a spokeswoman for her family, Carla Caccavale, told The Associated Press: "The family confirms that a body has not been found."

http://forum.fok.nl/topic/710730/3/50

Dutch bloggers talking about the 5th suspect,2 dutch brothers and a Colombian  :o

Automatically translated text:   
On Sunday, June 19, 2005 19:33 wrote milagro the following:

     [..]

     Ms. strange it is, yes.

     That son has a kind of thought I appartementje own, to his parents' house, own entrance therefore, I assume, so I assume again, that zoonlief can come and go without Ma and Pa in the eye, and how or what Who etc.


     Zoonlief to 06.30 tomorrow benefited from the 5th suspect, which is only recently revealed, it is that the 5th man now suspected,.
     Mss want them now only know from Dad or something he noticed that morning and drive to a third party or something

Tokse maandag 20 juni 2005 @ 00:28
I thought that this is the fourth suspect was one Steven Croes? Question wondering what is true of these two Dutch (not surinaamse) brothers and a colombiaan suspected? I think half of that island is suspected, how many people live there?

In short, strange mess with all these stories that you read, they sleuren more and more people, to the son of youknowwho to save ofzo. There is no ass of the whole story, and I wonder whether it only by the news of the amerikanen. I think there is also something very tilted sits on Aruba (skating them there are ash, and also straight or tilted?)



http://forum.fok.nl/topic/716218

For Wit, and I purposely omitt the respectable title of judge as I think he does insult to it, to claim that he felt that Joran's parents home was not the home of Joran because he had a detached living space in the home place is absurd. Joran lived with his parents, he ate their food, prepared in the main house, ate in the main house, his clothes were laundered in the main house, and he had complete run of the main house. His Dad claimed to have set hours of curfew for Joran so Joran defintely lived under their control, had not been emanciapated as far as I know, and thus was still a child. Wit, please go blow smoke up some other idiots ass. You insult the intelligence of all civilized people and you are personally responsible for the demise of Aruba and the torment of Beth.

Papiamentu translating to English
Willemstad – “My owing to actua correct and owing to base of proceduranan estableci in the Natalee Holloway case”. So ex huez commissioner in the affair Bob Wit owing to tell it relates with ponencianan with owing to come fast in last dianan for her as with the investigation in the case owing to march. During one week with, Mr. Wit  awendia is afiliá at cuts of husticia of Caribbean, owing to fungi because; huez commissioner in the case here. At aruba the boss principal of the investigation of the time yonder Gerald Dompig owing to tell with the mature with huez commissioner not owing to accord looks for proof in the case of the pareha van der Sloot owing to stroba the investigation. The Dutch investigator of crimes Peter R. de Vries owing to alegá the same cos. Remarcabel was in the case here with after owing to accord if one are of investigation of the Netherlands enter the case and the territory of the family. Owing to creates the impression also with because; with was deal of civil employee with was learn for become huez, owing to previlegiá the family. Paul van der Sloot, father of Joran van der Sloot, after owing to become suspect in the case. It was in the formacion of raio. Mr. Wit owing to tell with at instant with owing to come the peticion for her listramento at the site caminda Joran van der Sloot was live, owing to come for the request of looks for in his apartment and also in two cars of the family. Niun instant owing to ask look for more far. One huez comissioner not can haci another, because the request for listramento have to is substansia. With another word if owing to accord look for another caminda and esee do not cubri for her request of Ministery of Justice all proof with possibly obtené is ilegal. “Esey is signify with we owing to haci we work correct”, So Mr. Wit owing to tell. the ex huez commissioner owing to tell also for thing is deal the case self with the suspect van der sloot and again the Kalpoes is strong. “My owing to constatá for of the dossier/document with had various contradiccion in they declaration. But esey do not sufficient for succeed one condemns it. In the case with not find the rest deadly hour is deal of one crime do you have to of material adicional with is as declaration of one or more witness with owing to see thing owing to happen or do you have to find tracks of blood or can example cabei for tèstnan of dna”, so the magistrado owing to tell. For thing is the case self, Mr. Wit owing to tell with owing to arrive of happen in happened with after of time owing to come new element with still can conducí at one persecution of the suspect. “My owing to see much trip in my work with cualke instant can come new information new with is throw one another light on case with was slope”, so Mr. Wit owing to comentá. Ministery of Justice of Aruba owing to anunciá the week here with in the case here the accomodate of caducacion of the “crimes” is 7 year for murder and 10 year for murder premeditá (homicide). Come across

I am still not sure what Huez meant, I think a Judge, because this can be good: Huez Comisario - Judge commissioner. But I am not sure, I want ask my cousin later, when I see her.

A case of dumb, dumber, and dumbest?

I said Hi

earlier

today

 :-?

sure looks like someone that in the very least needs a good ass whoopin

Snip of Translation of Dutch article from June 2005

schatje zaterdag 25 juni 2005 @ 10:49
The mysterious disappearance of Natalee Holloway keeps Aruba already a month in its grip. The 18-year old American girl disappeared without trace after a night steps on the island with Joran (17), a son of a Dutch judge. Although the family of Natalee hope keeps on her return, justice in Aruba there is a time assume that the girl is no longer alive. Meanwhile sit five Dutch in custody, including (since the day before yesterday), Judge Paul van der S. Does this as very intelligent magistrate described his son actually helped the murder of Natalee Holloway?

'Happy' island already month in grip of missing American girl

Raadsels on Aruba

By John van den Heuvel

Has Judge Paul S. His son helped a murder?

What happened after the zoenpartij of Joran and Natalee?

ORANJESTAD (Aruba), Saturday
The police station in the district of 'North' in Oranjestad, Aruba, Thursday evening. Just now is the Dutch Judge Paul van der S. Fascinated inward. Cameraploegen, photographers and dozens of journalists for the door to samengestroomd live report on the case which Aruba is already in its grip weeks hold: the mysterious disappearance of the American girl Natalee Holloway.
It is mainly the American media that massive on Aruba are neergestreken. Large networks such as CNN, ABC and NBC have their own teams sent by the American people to keep the search for Natalee. The arrest of Judge Van der S. Was the day before yesterday 'breaking news' on all the major television stations in the United States. Teneur of communication: especially in the popular American tourists as Aruba is no longer 'one happy island. "


Mother and father Beth Jug living between hope and fear. "The idea that there are not more Natalee is intolerable."

Criminal broeinest
The Dutch island in the Caribbean is a criminal broeinest holidaying parents where their daughters minute not only able to, so let the reporters in their constituencies roaring reportages know. Meanwhile, the local authorities try passionate image of Aruba to save. Only a speedy resolution of the matter seems to be the future of the island as a sunny vacation for American tourists to be able to survive.
One outcome seems since the day before yesterday a step closer. Was Paul van der S. -- A former Private Secretary to the Attorney-General on Aruba - actually the one who helped his son Joran letting disappearance of Natalee Holloway? Or is the arrest of a wanhoopspoging Aruban justice to the powerful American media to show that indeed all means be used to cover the case to solve?
Saturday, May 28. Natalee Holloway with 124 schoolgenoten on Aruba neergestreken. The girl from her parents for permission conclusion of the high school to celebrate with a rousing holiday in the Caribbean. Advance is at the school on resistance to the trip. In the very conservative staalstadje Birmingham in the state of Alabama, some parents but nothing that such a large group of children touring with the supervision "only" seven chaperonnes. The school apparently realizes that the risks to the trip stick, because the parents who leave their children in that it must sign a statement that the school indemnify of responsibility in any accidents.
The group will be subsumed into the Holiday Inn Hotel on Aruba, located on the beautiful beach of hagelwitte Palm Beach. On Friday, May 27 Natalee met at the hotel Joran van der S., a 17-year old boy on Aruba studies at the international school. Joran comes from a decent family. His father is Judge since 2002 in training and his mother teaches at the same school where her three children their lessons. The family Van der S. Belongs to the upper-class of Aruba. Joran has its own apartment next to the villa with pool where his parents live. He runs good at school, but will remain under treatment of a psychiatrist because he opvliegend quite a character.
The Holiday Inn it is clicking between Joran and Naalee, after which the two decisions together again the next day to see in the nightclub Carlos' N Charlie's. It is Natalees last day on the island, so if Joran at the end of the evening still wants to drive a piece tackles them the chance of a avontuurtje. Two Surinamese friends of Joran, brothers Deepak and Satish K., sit in the front seats, while the teenagers in the back seat against one another and begin to creep kissing. What then has happened to this day unclear.
It is not disputed that Natalee Holloway no longer revert to her hotel. If the girl the next day vanished shows great alarm is immediately beaten. Her parents divorced from flying over Alabama and the police warned. Until large incomprehension of the Americans are Joran and his friends at first only heard as witnesses. The investigation is already difficult process because there are already direct disagreement arises as to who should lead the rechercheteam. The Aruban Minister of Justice Croes alive for some time partners with the top of police and the Public Prosecutor's Office and the Minister does not want the Dutch Police Jan van der Straaten research. They will, however, support from the local politiebonden, which still Croes eggs for his money elect and Van der Straaten should stay on.
Soon, the very experienced police, who to his eve of his retirement, a police driven meeting consisting of Aruban and Dutch detectives. The team also receives support from seven FBI experts. The initial witnesses' changing rapidly as the three suspects ever changing statements accountable. Joran said earlier that he first went back home and Natalee left with his two friends. The brothers explained that they gedrieën the girl off at her hotel, where they drank inward would be gestrompeld. On the surveillance cameras of the Holiday Inn Hotel, however, there is nothing to be seen.
The three were arrested after a week and the car in which the last ride took place Natalee is for technical research into the politielab. The police will get more and more convinced that the three read about the disappearance of Natalee and gradually the research that the conviction to the police (who has trained nearly thirty detectives) that the girl has been killed by them. The research considers it most likely that Natalee was taken to the Light House 'on Aruba, an extinct place on the northernmost tip of the island. In the eyes of justice would Joran and his friends that have tried sex with the American necessary, but they would not be served and have tegengestribbeld. Natalee Holloway would then have been murdered and her body would leave one of the countless places in the island are abandoned or possibly even be dumped into the sea.

Jorans father
What happened that night and what further role Jorans father Paul van der S. Has played in the crime, is still a mystery. Van der S. Lives already seventeen years on the island three years ago and was deputy judge in training. The judiciary, however, was not satisfied with his work and had already internally decided that Van der S. Its function should be filed. There was another place within the judiciary searched for him and Van der S. Did all no more lawsuits.
The police in Aruba begins his act increasingly suspected to be found as the investigation shows that Paul gives instructions all the suspects and they are trying to keep what they do and do not have to explain. That means that Van der S. A prohibition get his son any longer to visit in the cell, after which the magistrate an interim relief order aanspant this step to challenge. Last Thursday decision Justice Paul van der S. To arrest on suspicion of involvement in the murder of Natalee. Keihard evidence is lacking for the moment, but the opaque attitude of Van der S. Calls too many questions. Whether the accusation of murder in a later stage remains in force, has yet to appear. Justice may also suspected to have landed Van der S. In assurances can. The indictment could later be adjusted, for example the removal of evidence.

http://forum.fok.nl/topic/718927

Wouldn't it be funny if Joran went into law enforcement?  Maybe van der Straaten's old job?  Maybe a vdS younger brother?  Along with Jeffrey vC's sister?

Do you think they eat frosted flakes?

  W. Is the son of an Aruban politician: the chairman of the Aliansa / MSA, a party that last year participated in the September parliamentary elections.

(Het Parool)

     Quote:
     'Guido knew Natalee not'
     By MAAIKE RUEPERT

     AMSTERDAM - Guido W. (19), Wednesday in The Hague has been arrested in connection with the disappearance of Natalee ...

     Suspect Guido W.
     ... Holloway, the missing American had not. That says W. 's lawyer Gerard Spong. ,, Natalee Holloway He has never met,''says Spong.

     Spong did yesterday also know that W. Today again at liberty, but still is regarded as suspicious.

     W., who is suspected of complicity in the abduction and mistreatment and murder of Holloway, was apprentice croupier at the casino in the hotel where Holloway during her stay in Aruba stayed. On May 29, 2005, the evening before her disappearance, he was at work confirms Spong. After Holloway's disappearance is W. Five times heard as a witness.


I wonder what a son of a politician, is doing apprenticing in a casino owned by Posner.  Guess he has ti learn from the ground up if he wants to become somebody in Aruban politics.

Now we have articles about Wit and AHATA trying to defend their decisions.  Are they feeling some heat?  They should be,  they are living in hell.  Prayers are working, keep praying.

I think it would be funny if Joran turned up face down - in a ditch - dead

I would laugh!!!

to borrow a quote from the POS himeslf

 :lol: :lol: :lol:  That was funny!!

I wonder if all of Aruba is hell, or just where Wit and AHATA appear to be defending themselves?

How did Wever get involved anyway?  I wonder if he is related to any Dutch judges?

It would be interesting to know from an historical perspective, how closely related judges and politicians are among the Dutch and Arubans.  Are there families that seem to dominate these ranks? 

I found a Dutch Blog that comments on Natalee's case. May be of some interest to you sleuths that like to look for Info we may have not seen yet or was deleted off the net. Or even just what other Dutch/Aruban Bloggers or newspapers were saying. In Just a hour I have already seen one of Joran's friend posting and a mean spirited blogger who says he worked at the Holiday Inn Casino when Natalee was there. Most of the best Info came from SM and RWV.

http://forum.fok.nl/topic/837319/1/25
(Go Here to see the list of there discussions on NH)

Paul VDS was A former Private Secretary to the Attorney-General on Aruba
http://forum.fok.nl/topic/718927
-------------------------------------------------------------
Aruban Authorities Investigate Blood in Car
Sunday, June 12, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba — Authorities investigating the disappearance of Alabama honors student Natalee Holloway were seeking clues on the source of blood found in the car used to transport the missing teen to the beach nearly two weeks ago, Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes (search) said.

"We have found some blood in the car, but we don't know to whom it belongs," he said.

The teen's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, reportedly gave blood to authorities to determine whether the DNA matched that of the samples taken from a silver Honda.

http://forum.fok.nl/topic/710730/3/50
-------------------------------------------------------------
(Gido)W. Is the son of an Aruban politician: the chairman of the Aliansa / MSA, a party that last year participated in the September parliamentary elections.

Previously Spong said that W. Aruba should not be extradited because he is afraid as homosexual in prison 'traumatic experiences' to do.

   His arrest followed several incriminating statements that former colleagues from the casino in February on W. Have made. What the casinomedewerkers about his client against the police have said, let Spong not lost. Yesterday told a member of the Excelsior Casino in this newspaper that W. The day after Holloway's disappearance worrying at work appeared. He then held area a few days earlier on his work than was planned.

http://forum.fok.nl/topic/837319/12/25
-----------------------------------------
On Sunday, June 19, 2005 19:33 wrote milagro the following:

     [..]

     Ms. strange it is, yes.

     That son has a kind of thought I appartementje own, to his parents' house, own entrance therefore, I assume, so I assume again, that zoonlief can come and go without Ma and Pa in the eye, and how or what Who etc.


     Zoonlief to 06.30 tomorrow benefited from the 5th suspect, which is only recently revealed, it is that the 5th man now suspected,.
     Mss want them now only know from Dad or something he noticed that morning and drive to a third party or something

Tokse maandag 20 juni 2005 @ 00:28
I thought that this is the fourth suspect was one Steven Croes? Question wondering what is true of these two Dutch (not surinaamse) brothers and a colombiaan suspected? I think half of that island is suspected, how many people live there?

In short, strange mess with all these stories that you read, they sleuren more and more people, to the son of youknowwho to save ofzo. There is no ass of the whole story, and I wonder whether it only by the news of the amerikanen. I think there is also something very tilted sits on Aruba (skating them there are ash, and also straight or tilted?)

http://forum.fok.nl/topic/716218

basically its like this

if you are Aruban you are a piece of shit.

any other questions?

I wouldn't laugh.  I think it would give many the opportunity to close the case for good, a scapegoat for everything that has gone wrong.

Would anyone continue to look for those that may have disposed of a body?  Does anyone think a few 'boys' could have done that without help?

What about others that may be involved?  Those that may not be known to ALE or the public?

The truth is always available.  However, when there is  scapegoat, the truth may fall to the side of the road.  jmho

You make a very good point and I agree with you.  But I would still laugh, at least for a minute.  There would be some small amount of satisfaction in the irony of his own words turned onto himself.

ok, its late, i'm tired and probably not making sense anymore

goodnight y'all

Tim Miller and the crew on the Persistance - you all rock!!!!!!  Your always in our thoughts. Please be safe.

Beth, Dave, Jug and the rest of the family - hang in there, we are with you.

Night.

What about residents of Aruba?  J2K? 

I prefer to judge each apple in the bushel, on it's own merits. 

Would any of these players have been of a similar disposition if they had grown up on Bonaire for example?  Or, is it the island? 

There are good people on Aruba.

Would the players in her disappearce have done the same thing regardless of where they lived?

Would they be in a position to form their own circumstances when something bad happens?

Would the players ever move to a place where nobody knows their name?  They aren't related to anyone in a position of authority? 

Ashes to ashes...dust to dust...

Life is of a limited span for all of us.  IIRC, no one has ever cheated death.

I believe what matters is the space of time we have between the beginning and the end.

Should we aim to be famous?  Should we be humble?  Is it ok if no one remembers us after we are gone?

I wonder what the lasting legacy of Natalee Holloway will be on Aruba?  Will there be rumors of missing girls every year?  Will there be rumors of remains near the vdS home in years to come?

Well said.  I agree.

Good night.

Good morning.

In the picture of the Persistence and the fishnet they snagged, did you notice the fish net wasn't BLUE?

Freaking liars.

I hate 'em all.

I'm way behind here.

Good Morning Peaches...No, I didn't notice and I don't recall anyone else posting on it either. Thanks.

Been looking for info on Rudy's brother, whom I read is more corrupt than Rudy, and found this.

   



Lawyer Profile: Hendrik S. Croes
 

About This Firm
 
 
Overview
 
People
 
Practice Areas & Industries
 
Offices
 
 
Hendrik S. Croes
Member
Croes Wever Tchong
Arulex Center, P.O. Box 650
Oranjestad, Aruba



Telephone: +297-58-22138
Fax: +297-58-32363


Email: Contact via email
 


Experience & Credentials

 
Practice Areas General Practice; Civil Law; Commercial Law; Corporate Law; Trademarks; Copyrights; Construction Law; Administrative Law; Labor Law; Debt Collection; Real Estate; Mergers and Acquisitions; Joint Ventures; Gaming Law; Arbitration; Criminal Litigation; Economic Crimes; Drug Crimes; Inheritance Law
 
Education University of Leiden, Netherlands (LL.M., 1967)
 
Admitted 1967, Netherlands Antilles and Aruba
 

 Languages Dutch, Spanish, English, Papiamento, German and French
 
Born Aruba, January 8, 1942
 
Biography Minister of Education & Constitutional Affairs of the Netherlands Antilles, 1973-1976; Minister of Justice & Constitutional Affairs of the Netherlands Antilles, 1979-1981; Member of the Kingdom Committee to Advise on Aruba's independence, 1982; Minister of Preparing the Constitutional Status of Aruba, Deputy Prime Minister of the Netherlands Antilles, 1984-1985; Minister of Public Health of the Netherlands Antilles, September 1985-December 1985; Minister of Justice of Aruba, February 1989-March 1993; Member of the Kingdom Committee to advise on future relations with the European Union, 2004.
 
ISLN 901029773
 

 
 




 
 


     


 





 





 
 

Rush hour in hospital

ORANJESTAD – The personnel of Horacio Oduber Hospital was very busy from December 21 to 26.  The reason was mostly consumption of too much alcohol.  At least 28 victims of traffic accidents were brought in, versus 12 last year. 

Of the 28 victims, 15 were injured due to physical violence, 2 had an overdose of alcohol and/or drugs, and 6 were injured in accidents in and around the house.  Only 6 traffic accidents victims had to be admitted for further treatment.  Five of the fifteen victims of physical violence and five of the six persons that were injured in or around the house were admitted, of which 2 in the ICU.

http://www.amigoe.com/english/

Still looking for a connection between 'Lady Eyes' Diane - Freddy's attorney and Renato who is the police person responsible for all the organization and analysis of evidence in the Holloway case.

I just read the Judge Witt article. I call BS.
If a judge was present and dictated terms of the search -- he could also dictate that the entire property COULD be searched. Any "legit" judge would have deemed the search in a MURDER case able to search the whole property if he physically saw himself the situation.

Bingo. Huez ... does mean Judge/Justice (as in the title).

Just catching up here.... can anyone help me get out of my Christmas attire and back to my ole self? I am not much in a festive mood today.....

I pray the ocean search team is successful....

http://www.amigoe.com/english/   12/27/2007

Take-over purchase refinery by Petrobras a done deal

ORANJESTAD -- Valero Energy Corporation and Petrobras have reached an agreement on the take-over purchase of the refinery in San Nicolas.  The ‘outline agreement’ is signed, even though they are still negotiating almost all the details.

This news comes from a very reliable source that mentions that the take-over purchase is a done deal.  There is no longer a joint venture between Valero and Petrobras; the entire refinery is being sold to the Brazilian semi state-owned company.   The outline agreement for the take-over purchase was signed right before Christmas.  What this is going to mean for the employment and the development of the earnings of the employees of the refinery, is therefore not clear yet. 

We also do not know yet whether there will be conditions set for the environmental accomplishments of the company, which products Petrobras is going to refine, and for which markets.  Can Petrobras expect a ‘tax holiday’; will the government set conditions; will the government ask for guarantees with regard to the personnel?

Spokesperson David Smith of Valero cannot confirm the signing of the outline agreement for the take-over purchase.  “I have no information on this and Valero Aruba is not informed of the signing of a contract.”

Morning monkeys!  What a rag of a newspaper "Amigoe" is!

Take over purchase of refinery is a done deal, yet spokesperson for Valero is not aware of any contract signing.  So typical of the BS we have read from Aruba......either they report complete BS or leak info before it should be released. 

Very weird place.

I agree and will also omit the title of "judge" when discussing Wit.  This man is a disgrace.

I wrote to the Carribean Court of Justice a long time ago, to express the mockery this man Wit, has made of the justice system.  As long as he, and Smid remain in justice positions, there is no justice system in the Antilles.

Wit is without ethics, professional or personal, and tarnishes everything the justice system stands for.  He is disgrace to his profession and a disgrace to the human race.

Now he wants to cover his ass with a ridiculous explanation of his actions, which is indeed an insult to intelligent people everywhere.

Perhaps he can answer this question:  What was he doing at the Sloot dump in the first place?

According to the "Code of Ethics", he should never have been on the property.  Whether friends or acquaintances of the Sloots, his very presence was improper, and a violation of the code of ethics.


Wreck wrote:

Where is Hans Mos? why didn't he investigate the investigation and all the liars that came with it? Why? Because there are Dutch people involved. The Dutch cannot police themselves.


I agree Wreck!  If the Dutch did not come to Aruba to investigate the investigation, the whole episode is a sham and a disgrace. 


Wit has no ethics.
Carribean Justice is a contradiction in terms.
Wit brings disgrace to Dutch justice officials everywhere.
Dutch Justice is a sham and a joke.

The Hague is a joke.

I definitely agree -- but that was Dayhiker's quote not mine!

Jawohl, (yes, however,)  I like it. The KLPD and OM are one joke.  :lol: :lol: :lol: I had watch Peter R. De Vries last sunday, he was telling in his programm to people to speaking out about 4 cases. 3 were early a cold-case and now is the 4th also a cold-case. Dutch government that has something to do with corruption, information keeping back for family of missing children and the lies what they tell in the media and at press conference about many cases.

I definitely agree -- but that was Dayhiker's quote not mine!

Oops.....apologies all!  I guess I need to settle down for a minute.  :2doh:

These guys in their black robes who pretend to stand for justice are difficult to look at, especially Wit.

Dayhiker wrote:

Where is Hans Mos? why didn't he investigate the investigation and all the liars that came with it? Why? Because there are Dutch people involved. The Dutch cannot police themselves.

Wit is a disgrace, and just one symptom in a disease called the Dutch Justice system.

The Hague is a joke.  If I was a Dutch judge, I would remove myself from association with the likes of Wit.

I assume that Beth is speaking from a foundation of knowledge in the following interview.  I trust her words 100% ... case closed!

Beth is on a quest for the truth regarding what happened to her precious daughter.  She has no reason to lie as ... lies are created to obscure the truth.

Janet

++++++++++++++

Beth Twitty
FOX NEW - MARTHA MACCALLUM
November 28, 2006

TWITTY: Well I think they will always have to look at there were two personnel involved from the Aruban Justice Department and that is why we do not have any evidence and that is what Joran’s attorney will have to be reminded of. It is because of Bob Witt and Ben King stopped the search warrants. It was made to initially search the entire area of Mon. 19 - the garden, the buildings and everything  but on the spot a high ranking employee of the Justice Office, Bob Witt, reduced the search warrant to only the room of Joran so that’s why we do not have any evidence because of involvement of the obstruction from the Aruban Justice Department personnel.

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/12/28/ (http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/12/28/)

Brutal assault on female tourist.


Online Pap translation:

atraco y agresion on tourist
female in hotel

golpi strong for turism diahuebs night...

oranjestad(aan): if situation follow so at aruba, cualkier miyon hinca in turism will not help tog. thing cu owing to happen diahuebs in oranan late of nightfall birando dark is one golpi much strong for turism.

one tourist female procedente of miami owing to become victima of one atraco in territory of the highrise timeshare resort where the is hospedando. past owing to socede on the gangway cu have near of beach.

strandpolitie is trahando cu soul y cuerpo for can place hand on he color dark cu owing to comete the atraco. the was have one carson style camouflage dress, y was back sunu.

for colmo, for of trempan oficialnan of seguridad of one another hotel owing to señala the figure odd here in cercania of they hotelnan, but the atraco self did take lugar on territory of one another resort, where the atracador here owing to being señala more in day.

the asalto brutal

the atracador owing to grab the young tourist female of 17 year cu one agare strong y brutal, y although the young owing to struggle for scapa of the hands of the atracador, tog the atracador owing to go back calculate, y zwaai for strike the young violentamente in wall of beton, y lage injury cu golpi at cabez.

the young tourist is naci at venezuela, but live at miami. the victima owing to succeed throw his bag, but so self the atracador owing to happen hand pe y descend at water cu this.

hour cu owing to beat alarma on the caso here at once owing to cuminsa busca via descripcion give for achieve paradero of the atracador. the is one man color dark of estatura of because; 1.80 metre.

the lady tourist owing to stay in shock of spanto, y was tembla according testigonan owing to let know.
the parents of the young atraca owing to dicidi cu they're bay at once for hospital together cu the gerente of the hotel where the caso owing to sosode.

mirando cu was dark dificilmente can owing to succeed capta imagennan cla of the atracador on sistema of video, but another hotelnan cu also owing to señale will facilita autoridadnan the imagennan for so personal of strandpolitie follow work on the caso.

the atraco did take lugar on the part cu is conduci at the cambernan of the hotel.

as wait for cu autoridadnan soluciona the caso here y daily paper will is first for place the photograph of the atracador for so aruba can see that is the burdugo cu is cause one damage irreparable at we island.

on the potret can see instant cu family is dicidi of bay cu the child muher inocente for hospital.

* * *


Online Pap translation:

ministerio publico is tumando caso

of cuatro hombernan arm much at earnest

oranjestad (aan): autoridad is take the caso of the hombernan deteni cu arm of candela much at earnest.

diaranzon madruga the first informe cu owing to enter at police, is cu at havana beach club have one action andando. the club popular here on the madruga ey, was rand-rand of person they if is on another for her party cu owing to worde organiza.

esnan cu atende the party owing to goza according informe one bol. abroad can owing to notice one cantidad of car staciona, y even at dado instant trafico can some owing to jam.

all the time owing to base of informe relaciona cu arm of candela, owing to stay suministra also the number of the nissan sentra, cu is a-42250. the patrol of oranjestad cu was at caminda for havana beach club on lloyd g. smith boulevard, at height of royal plaza mall, they owing to notice one vehiculo of cual the number is cuadra.

at once without vacila, the agentenan owing to reacciona door of stop the chofer. agentenan arm cu they pistola owing to ordena the cuatro hombernan in the vehiculo for hoist hand at high, y descend one for uno.

one of the agentenan owing to look at con one of the hombernan is sconde the arm in dashboard... one acto very dangerous cu the person can owing to lose his life owing to base of his reaccion y the arm cu the have in his power.

all the time polisnan cu arm apunta, owing to ordena the cuarteto in the nissan sentra for hoist hand. all the cuatro person owing to descend y obliga they of sleep at floor.

so they owing to worde listra one for uno, y after police owing to open the dashboard of the nissan sentra. here poni more at high, near of the book owner’s manual of nissan, y one kwashi of verf... owing to come descubri the arm of candela, one jennings nine of 9 mm, cu is gekrenk cla for dispara! past owing to stay confisca, together cu the cartucho cu is contene 4 ball inside.

the cuatro sospechosonan cu owing to stay deteni is he g.b.i.d. of 26 year live at calabas. also owing to detene the hobennan r.j.p. of 17 year y e.m.p. of 18 year both live at home upstairs. can ultimo owing to detene owing a.e.m live at angochi.

the cuarteto deteni is of the district of santa cruz cu once more is worde poni in luz negative.
daily paper owing to achieve know cu recherche have the caso bao of investigacion y is bay haci test forensico, for see in what “otro” crimen the arm here was envolvi at aruba, y is wait for is of know for of cual angle the arm here owing to leave, incluyendo detaye criminal of that can owing to sell the arm of candela here.

* * *


Online Pap translation:

joran van der sloot was desea for her caso owing to bay corte

so past owing to demostra “su inocencia”

oranjestad (aan): the corant free of the netherlands, “dag” owing to succeed one interview cu joran van der sloot.

the young owing to divulga, cu the self was desea much for her caso owing to bay fast huez, for so the can owing to demostra his inocencia in the supuesto envolvimento cu desaparicion of natalee holloway.

according joran, in corte if all cos owing to worde talk open y without censura for everybody.

the is believe cu the second aresto recien of past y rumannan kalpoe, was for justicia aruban can owing to complace cu prensa mericano.

* * *

WhiskeyGirl ... my thoughts exactly.

Janet

++++++++++++++

Galatians 6:7
Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

IMO Wit stopped the search.  If he wasn't there to stop the search, then why be there? OK a favor for a friend....the favor was to stop the search.......Again it is just my opinion, no proof.....but I think the police force drones would have liked things solved......and joran's guilt proven.

I think there is only one place in which our legacy matters, and that is not the newspaper, the halls of Congress, the walls of art galleries, but the Book, the Book of Life kept by the real Gardener, who plants and harvests in His own time.

Hummm. No comments on the "brutal assualt" on a 17-year-old female tourist?

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/3277/1/ (http://www.24ora.com/content/view/3277/1/)

I don't think I've seen this - another suicide. Per the Comments section, his first name is Egbert. 20 years old.




 

I honestly can't understand much even in the translation MsMarple.  :sad:

That's what made me think it was a different case ... ??

i agree with you, bleached, i need someone to translate the translation into middle tenn. redneck english. 
dennisintn

posted by Melissa on the FP:

"Today in Diario there is an article about a 17 year old female tourist being brutally assaulted."

Imagine my surprise!  Another tourist assaulted! 

Who'd have thought?

I just sent an email to the wheel of fortune, this is how it reads.......

Do you realize that giving away an aruba Vacation, is an insult now adays?  I am not trying to be a smart ass or anything, but does anyone follow the news as in the Natalee Holloway case?  Here, I'll send you the link so that you can read up on it.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?board=1.0   I am just hoping your new winner gets back safe and sound!  I think in the future you should think about where you are sending your winners, I would send my loosers there.  Just because it's a cheap vacation, doesn't make it right.  We all know there is a boycot there, so getting there is dirt cheap.  Shame on you!

Maybe we should all send one :2doh:

burgnews@wpxi.com

customerservice@sonyrewards.sel.sony.com


they just got a few from me  :cool:

are you crazy ???

aruba is a HELLHOLE. please do not send people there on vacation

they get "DISAPPEARED"

they are raped and killed and then the whole thing is coverd up

the wheel is a family show, aruba is not a nice place for families


thank you

ROBOTS

oh by the way   ARUBA SUCKS  :cool:

Thank you for your inquiry.
 
Please note that we cannot respond to your email, as all emails to
Customer Service must now be submitted via the Contact link at the
bottom of the Sony Rewards website. Please resubmit your question there
so that we can assist you.
 
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you and appreciate
your cooperation.
 
Sincerely,
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STICK IT  :cool:

sonyrewards@mailhost.sonyrewards.com

DEAR SONY BONEHEADS



 :cool:

i know how to navigate thru blocked emails

dumbasses

am i in the wrong place ???????????? :cool:

Thanks for bringing this story over, MsMarple.  Now if we can get a translation to the translation!  Extremely interesting story! 

Possibly the free feet given to the Aruba Three has been an official declaration of open season on American Tourists.

 :lol:

Is there an English translation of the Bob Wit article?  If there is ... I would appreciate if I could be directed to it.

Thank you

Janet

+++++++++++++


http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/2007/12/justice-jacob-bob-wit.html

Monday, December 10, 2007
JUSTICE JACOB "BOB" WIT
 

Well, you're not at the airport, but at your headquarters... :salut: :lol:

yea, i better give the airport a break,

i mean, you can only go there so many times PRETENDING to be someone picking someone up from a flight

if you know what i mean  :wink:

Wheel of Torture

   


you could always tell them you were picking up the regular drug courier from aruba.  they wouldn't have any trouble believing that at all.
dennisintn

This is the article that I am referring to.  ******* ... thank you for putting it through the translator.  I can get the drift but ...

My youngest son's Dutch FIL ... is not home right now but when he returns I will see what he can do.  My daughter-in-law does not have a clue when it comes to the written word of her native tongue.   :lol:

I sure miss Getagrip.   :sad:

Janet

:lol: :cool:

i just blasted them again....
waiting for a reponse  :cool:

Sorry to be on a rant today, but this slimeball Wit just tears it for me!  His pitiful attempt to defend himself is so pathetic as to make a mockery of any sincerity that may exist in the Dutch Justice System.  I'm not saying any sincerity exists, since I haven't observed any.

IMO, Natalee's Freebirds have done an excellent job at summarizing the conflicts of interest and corruption that are central to the Natalee Holloway case. 

When we are distracted by what the three punks have said and done, along with their little thug friends,  I think we only help to perpetrate the smokescreen constructed by AHATA and the Powers that Be in Aruba.  The hired cleaning crew, and they are many, have done a very effective job at obscuring the facts of the case and provide cover for the punks.  Those facts cannot be sorted out from the bottom up, IMO.

If we ever expect to get to the truth of what happened to Natalee, I believe we must keep the pressure and the focus on the corruption in the Dutch/Aruban Justice system.

J2K certainly kidnapped Natalee, and she was never seen again.

But Natalee was "selected" by Paulus and Joran.  For who and what purpose?  That is the heart of the story, IMO.

The moment "something bad happened", the real players were in full swing. 

The corrupt judges and members of the Justice department are the ones to shine the light on.  They need to be continually exposed for the criminals they are.  When they begin to fall from grace, the rest of the rats will all shake out.

I say, let's not be distracted by looking where AHATA and the PTB want us to look.

The Carribean Court of Justice is a joke.  The Hague is a joke.



 

I have just a few questions for the powers that be. Why would the justice Mr. Wit confine the search to just a one bedroom apartment of a minor rather than the whole property of the minor? Lets not forget that his parents were given special visitation because he was a minor. I bet they had trouble collecting evidence, like his clothing because it was in the laundry room. So besides hardrives and cars that were altered did you actually collect a base line, showing Natalee's DNA was present at some point in contact with the J2K. Just a point that I'm sure you already know. If you don't have any positive DNA then you still have not collected the correct samples yet. Example, they admit she got into the car there has to be a base line of her DNA or the car has been altered or isn't the same car.

The surprising part to me is that he bothered to defend himself at all.
He must be getting some flak about his decisions.
A judge that lies to protect his friend is pretty worthless.
In a normal place his judicial career would be over.

Dayhiker - your words get this
(http://www.brakkefort.nl/pics/buigen.gif):smt025 :lol: :D :thumleft: :thumright: :smt025

Did we ever get a better translation than this on this new attack on 17 yo female American tourist?

This is yet another scandal for Aruba to add to their growing collection.

.

the cover-up participants were able to do what they did because they thought natalee's family would finally give up and go home, and the case would be forgotten like max devries and the male diver from several years ago.  now, i think they're beginning to see that this is going to be a lifelong affair until it's solved and natalee returned home, and the people responsible punished.
dennisintn

The judge friends of Paulus were the main culprits in the corruption of the investigation. There was no way to get a fair decision with
friends of the main suspects making decisions and disallowing evidence.
Those judges should have been removed from the case immediately in the beginning of the investigation.
Who is at fault for not removing them?
Had they been on the up and up they would have stepped aside.

PVDS was also a secretary for the Attorney General in the Prosecuters office and worked as a lawyer for the Govt. His connection to the AG may have been his best connection besides being best friends with the Chief of Police.

Update: Fri Dec-28 1200 hrs

Last night, most of the crew and search team took a break and had dinner on the island. As much as we love the Persistence, it was a needed separation both of work and surroundings. For most of us, it was the first time off the Persistence in over a week.

Today, the trade winds are steady and strong. Wind surfers and parasails dot the beach as the Persistence completes the primary grid of sonar lines. To clarify, there is more planned grid remaining to be surveyed but the priority area is essentially complete. Within minutes, we will perform a calibration routine for the USBL acoustic tracking system. When successful, the ROV team will bring out the ROV and perform a test dive. The dive ensures the Persistence can maintain position over a fixed point (in 35+kt winds, 3-5ft swells, and strong cross currents) while the ROV safely navigates to a known point and can adequately maneuver in close proximity to the seafloor. For once, the pressure is off the sonar operators as they breath a major sigh of relief. All eyes will now turn toward the ROV pilot and boat captain as they perform this difficult dance among men and machine.

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

I understand. I never understand why some where hoping in the Dutch investigator for solved this case.
Also the FBI in NYC knows this case can not be solved by the Dutch investigators. They really get information about the Dutch government. BTW, who is Peter deWitt? Do u not mean Peter R. de Vries?
And well do u know, I am anti Dutch government for around 8 years. I know how they work, I know how inhumanly they are, I know they are corrupt and I know they give wrong/false information to parents of missing children. At this moment the police in the Netherlands has a named for bad, corrupt and liars.

Stupid Question:  Will the ROV pilot be in the ROV or guiding it from the ship?

As a matter of fact, Rammstein has been hard at work on the front page, defending the Dutch judges and laying blame on the Aruban Police. 

For me, anyone who even makes an attempt to defend Wit, Smid, Paulus, Rudy, and others who are so clearly corrupt, is insulting the intelligence of reasonable people.  Such defense is ludicrous, as any honest judge or official would have removed themselves from the case immediately.  Who has got these guys in their pocket?  I don't believe they all love Paulus that much, especially since he didn't qualify for "judgeship". 

I suspect the reason Paulus was a judicial failure and the crooked judges coming to his defense in spite of his "unfitness", is intertwined.  Wonder what they all have a part in that keeps them connected?

Jossy commenting on the 16 year old girl that was robbed and assaulted in Aruba.

It's a Remotely Operated Vehicle so he will guide it from the ship. They also have Human Operated Vehicles but they don't have one of those for this expedition.

As a matter of fact, Rammstein has been hard at work on the front page, defending the Dutch judges and laying blame on the Aruban Police. 

For me, anyone who even makes an attempt to defend Wit, Smid, Paulus, Rudy, and others who are so clearly corrupt, is insulting the intelligence of reasonable people.  Such defense is ludicrous, as any honest judge or official would have removed themselves from the case immediately.  Who has got these guys in their pocket?  I don't believe they all love Paulus that much, especially since he didn't qualify for "judgeship". 

I suspect the reason Paulus was a judicial failure and the crooked judges coming to his defense in spite of his "unfitness", is intertwined.  Wonder what they all have a part in that keeps them connected?

I think that is a big part of the answer to the whole ordeal.

Rammstein's explanations of the Dutch judicial system are made to
confuse the issue, not to clarify.

I never (ever) saw this statement attributed to Rudy Croes before. I have to ask do we have the original source?

Aruban Authorities Investigate Blood in Car
Sunday, June 12, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba — Authorities investigating the disappearance of Alabama honors student Natalee Holloway were seeking clues on the source of blood found in the car used to transport the missing teen to the beach nearly two weeks ago, Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes (search) said.

"We have found some blood in the car, but we don't know to whom it belongs," he said.

NYC,

Can you help me here a little bit with a question?

It is my understanding that Mos is what is known as a Public Prosecutor.  Meaning he can only prosecute members of the public and not ALE nor judges, etc.

Do I understand that correctly?  The ALE investigation would have to originate within their own ranks and through the equivalent of their union or hierarchy?

TIA

.

Well If Judge Bob Wit just said in the paper that the warrant only requested to search Joran's APT and the 2 cars then someone is lying there ass off and I think it's him.

Someone needs to speak up quickly,because the dirtbag that changed that warrant should be in jail. I believe Peter De Vries 100% but if for some reason the fault lied on the OM,AG and Jaren Janssen then someone needs to speak up right now. We know 7 days later PVDS was arrested for suspicion of murder and kidnapping but yet they never searched anything of his on the property.

It is absolutely unnaceptable and they are caught Red Handed Covering Up Natalee's Murder and Protecting the Van Der Sloots. Since when do Murder,Kidnapping and Rape suspects get immunity from having there entire property searched?

Natalee was absolutely in that main house and in back of the property by the garden. Bet it all

Rammstein does a pretty good job of defending the judges but it is all based on his claim that they are infallible.  There is only one infallible human being and he only in matters of faith.

No human being is above even the possibility of corruption.  That is why in this country we have an OPEN court system, no hiding behind black robes and claims of secrecy being legal. 

I appreciate our own system more and more every day.  It's far from perfect but the appearance of wrong-doing is not tolerated.

Karin Janssen said Paulus wouldn't let them search in one of her rare interviews and I have always thought this was a slip of the tongue for her.  I have always felt for whatever reasons, PVDS was running this investigation from the start.  He seemed to be calling the shots and making all the decisions and how odd he was screaming about jurisdiction to Beth and the people from Alabama the minute they arrived.

.

I found it last night on that Dutch Blog. I cant remember if I translated it or it was in English but it's from a newspaper. The site seems to be down at the moment for all the sleuths it is worth looking into. I was suprised to see Jorans friend and a HI Casino worker commenting on the forum.

http://forum.fok.nl/topic/710730/3/50


http://forum.fok.nl/topic/837319/1/25
(Go Here to see the list of there discussions on NH)

Sorry Spock still looking for the article/source of that info. But found this interesting line from Ruben Trapenberg. After we heard numerous accounts by FBI and others that allegedly blood was found in the car only to have it turn into chocolate and cleaning fluid.......apparently Rubin knew from from the start that whatever the others were seeing WAS NOT BLOOD. Humpffff

Ruben Trapenberg, a government spokesman, said authorities found no blood in the car that Holloway was riding in with the three young men. "There is no evidence of foul play that we know of."

http://tinyurl.com/36cahd

Dayhiker - No problem, I know about who are u talking.  :wink:
This a good article for reading. And sure in the red. The corruption is with great eye to see.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2470.msg321949#msg321949

However, we do have NOI who know how to disrupt and corrupt and threaten jurors, and we have the Nifongs who can easily be ferreted out.

Anna,

Ramm can spin it all he likes and blame the ALE and Arubans. I will be on the FP later top see what he saying. They are caught red handed this time since Wit is saying that is all the search requested was Jorans little Apt and the 2 cars. I am quite sure the Judge is lying according to what De Vries told us.

Someone needs to take the blame as what they did was absolutely absurd and it killed any chance of finding evidence in that house. It's not a winning argument for that side,and they are caught.

Spock,

I remember both Croes and Oduber saying this, one of them live on media right in front of Beth who had NOT yet heard this.  Oduber, I think that was.

That resulted in that most anguished of photos of her and the one from which many of us draw inspiration to this day, where she is walking away just devastated in tears and some guy trying to comfort her.

That man actually announced this to the media in this press conference right in front of Beth without having the decency to even warn the mother of the missing child in advance what he was going to say.

Things like that are why I am still here, the level of sheer cruelty that was totally unnecessary that they have shown. 

And we now know Rudy Croes has his $65 million project on the line.  Be a shame to build all those units and have no customers for him, wouldn't it?  Sort of like the new cruise dock they built on credit and now 44% decline in cruise ship activity. 

Someone gets to those who try to do a real investigation.  Dompig started off really trying as I believe did Mos.  Do they sit them down and show them the government books and how this is going to wreck the total economy or what?

.

Dried blood in a car will of course turn brown, as does dry blood on most anything. It was the very confident misinformation by Ruben stating there WAS NO BLOOD found that I wanted to point out.

Why send anything to NFI or FBI when they have Ruben on the scene to do instant analysis?  He can probably see DNA as well.  Very remarkable talents this man claims to have.

Everyone else saw the blood and said so.

.

FoxNews

    quote:
    Aruban Authorities Investigate Blood in Car
    Sunday, June 12, 2005

    ORANJESTAD, Aruba — Authorities investigating the disappearance of Alabama honors student Natalee Holloway were seeking clues on the source of blood found in the car used to transport the missing teen to the beach nearly two weeks ago, Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes (search) said.

    "We have found some blood in the car, but we don't know to whom it belongs," he said.

    The teen's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, reportedly gave blood to authorities to determine whether the DNA matched that of the samples taken from a silver Honda.

    Forensic expert Michael Baden told FOX News on Sunday, "Everyday that passes makes it more ominous,” in referring to the amount of time that has passed since the woman went missing. He added that "the blood in the car could be due to a struggle" and also said of Aruban authorities: "There’s a great pressure not to convict local people.”

    An Aruban judge Saturday ordered the three young men who reportedly spent time with Holloway at a lighthouse on an Aruban beach before she disappeared to stay in jail, as Aruba's attorney general and others denied reports that one had confessed and said he would take police to the body.

    As rumors mounted about the fate of 18-year-old Natalee Holloway, a spokeswoman for her family, Carla Caccavale, told The Associated Press: "The family confirms that a body has not been found."
Posted by Milagro

http://forum.fok.nl/topic/710730/3/50

I have seen dried blood stay red in certain conditions.  But seasoned FBI agents and members of LE know what it looks like, red or brown, from all the car wrecks in Aruba and not even those clowns would be likely to mistake chocolate for blood or anything else for that matter.

I would like to hear from an FBI agent who actually physically saw it as to the quantity.

They love to sing that song about no evidence of violence.

Well, they why make the body disappear?  That doesn't make any sense at all and no amount of panic would last long enough to carry out that action.

They hid the body for one of two reasons only and both involve violence.

.

Anna - sure u can ask what u want, because I don't have right the silent about this government and police rapports.
Hmhm very interesting question, at this moment I don't not sure the answer of your question. I don't think it is possible to get a court case to a judge and a public prosecutor. But I want ask my father tomorrow about it, he has some law articles studied, maybe he knows. 'The ALE investigation would have to originate within their own ranks and through the equivalent of their union or hierarchy'? I think his is right. Such as everyone them or her rank has by the law system and police office.

Mos Says Part II
Dutch press     by Hannie   RU

PUBLISHED 27-12-07:
Regarding the review the KLPD did in the case, he said: "As an investigating team and as prosecutor in charge, we must be open to other possibilities and must be careful not to exclude other options."

He was not present early on in the investigation, he does not know the points and arguments used to balance the investigation and also does not know the circumstances, but denied that the team had tunnel vision: "But my impression is that during that period there was no sign of tunnel vision, the team saw that there were several scenarios possible and they investigated them out."

He criticized the overexposure of the story in the media, specially the sensationalists and tabloids, who when they had no information, would look for their own information; many times sidetracking the real investigators.

"Aruba is a safe place, it's not a place where there is relatively high crime activity, furthermore, the Aruban Police has a impeccable record in solving big crimes."

When asked why couldn't they solve this case then, he replied "I don't know, but one thing for sure, I would not like to be in the shoes of the persons in charge of the investigation early on, not as a police officer or as a member of the Prosecutor's Office. It's now easier to talk about."

PUBLISHED 28-12-07:

Mos answered: "I was not responsable for that, and it's not up to me to give an evaluation. But I can say that all decisions taken back then, were taken with integrity..." to the question, what his opinion was on the attack of the family that it took too long to arrest the former suspects in the case.

About his comments of errors made by the investigative team early on that was printed in a Dutch newspaper, he admitted that he talked to the newpapers de Telegraaf which is known for its sensationalism, but he denies that he said those words. "There were some things in the article that I never said, the only thing I said and confirmed to them was that there were some results not put on paper (PV), that we thought could had given us more information. So, that's why we went back and relistened to all recorded telephone conversations of the previous investigation. And based on that, we got some more things out."

He did not want to give more information but explained that there are some psychological processes that an investigating team can go through when handling too much information. He used the popular expression: "..door de bomen de bos niet meer zien."

It is a fact that some of the MB kids were interviewed, but the process was handled by the lawyers in the States. The FBI intervened to interview a selected group BUT the questions were controlled and had to have approval of the lawyers.

Once again, Mos said that he had no responsability in that and he has not enough information how that process went. "The only thing I can say, and it's a professional opinion after the fact, is that everything should have been investigated and all options eliminated." He continue saying that even if these options were not understood by others or no one agrees with them.

He believes that the investigation should be broadened in the States because "I can conclude that this was not done", but at this moment he does not think that the answers would be there.

Mos confirmed that the island of Aruba and the Netherlands has spent between $5-$10 million dollars on the case, and that is excluding the salary costs. A small group of investigators are still assigned to the case, under the command of Dolphi Richardson to filter any new information that could come in the future.

He finished the interview with these words about the investigators: "We cannot say who and what was done, but I can say that the investigators in this case are so involved with it that even in their free time want to review the whole investigation. Even now that the case is cold, they are willing to keep it alive"
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So I don't think MOS can investigate the corruption.  That has to be done by someone higher ranking than he is for the judiciary and also from within the LE itself.

He is not authorized to do so is my understanding.


Ramm doesn't like me.  He told me so in PM.  I don't know why.  I may not agree with him but I was ALWAYS very civil in my exchanges with him.  And I didn't even point out how other things he claims are not true, either, like the ability of pedophiles in The Netherlands to be working with children.  They recently arrested one molesting young boys whom he was TEACHING sailing lessons.  Ramm said it was impossible for them to have contact with children which was obviously just wrong.  Imagine how much he would hate me if I had even talked about that which I didn't.  Yet.

.

Per the front page of SM.  Looks like there was a FOX article on this June 12th but when you go to the link the article is different:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/12/natalee-holloway-latest-news/

(scroll down to the bottom of the post)


Now..back to working and lurking  :wink:

Anyone remember Gerben?  He was Dutch and has legal information and was very civil and nice.  I wish he would answer our questions.

.

Asked why it took investigators more than two weeks after Holloway's disappearance to search the van der Sloot home, Janssen said Thursday, ``You have to build up an investigation. You can't just go in there like a cowboy, you have to give certain direction to investigators.''

Yeh right,They searched the two innocent security's guards house who they tried to frame,immediately when they were arrested. I am extremely anxious to get to the bottom of why that house was never searched in 2005. Judge Wit changed the Warrant or Paul's buddies in the OM including the AG that he worked for never requested the full search. As of right now I am to believe Judge Wit is lying and he changed the search. They are cooked and this is positive proof they covered up Natalee's murder and protected the Van Der SLoots.

I wonder what the penalty for subverting justice would be for a judge?  Prolly attending a night class on not doing that or something similar.  They are appointed for life and I bet they have the law worded to make sure that sticks.

.

In case you are wondering why it is difficult to find some past news items previously available i, and if you haven't archived them yourself, maybe it is because you aren't spelling the individuals names WRONG !  :wink:

++++++++++++++++++=

Police Chief Jan van Strantan said the two men are security guards at the Hotel Allegro, which is near the Holiday Inn where Holloway was staying.

At a Sunday news conference, van Strantan said police and the FBI determined that bloodstains on a mattress found earlier Sunday were from a dog.

Van Strantan called for the assistance of FBI diving teams to assist in the search.

He said authorities have not found any of Holloway's possessions among items police seized after taking the two men into custody at their homes in the southwestern Aruba town of San Nicolas.

The men were seen leaving their respective houses calmly and without resistance.

The men, ages 28 and 30, were not among the three men in whose company Holloway was last seen.

Police spent much of Saturday afternoon at Hotel Allegro, which is undergoing renovations. They refused to say what led them to the site or if they found anything.

Police said they have not ruled out kidnapping or foul play, but they insisted they are conducting their investigation as a missing person case.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/06/05/missing.teen/index.html

On what planet would it not be SOP to search the home, person, cars, etc. of the ones last know to be with the one who is missing.  This is how you build up an investigation.....by investigating.  All persons last seen with one who is missing should be searched, investigated, interrogated, until police are able to eliminate them as suspects.  Standard operating procedure in any investigation....no special "build up needed"....anywhere else in the world. 

Janssen is dirty for her complicity and misinformation right out of the gate. 

Wit is a dirty criminal and a cowardly liar, a disgrace to his profession.

The Carribean Court of Justice is a joke.  The Hague is a joke.

That's because she never fell down.  He is trying to explain all the bruises on her if she was found.  The bruises cause by him beating her. :-x

First of all San does not party (http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/ahgg_eek3dance.gif)    Secondly if I were partying with an Aruban I think they would be the ones who would have to watch out.  (http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/swear2-1.gif) :wink:

Hi Tyler good to see you.  I am unable to log on SM at work and I do miss everyone.

So they pretended to search the entire home 17 days later and even Anita was on TV telling the world they searched everything. Thank God De Vries found this valuable information that the search warrant was changed and the house was never searched.

Obviously whoever blocked the search was informed by Paul Van Der Sloot directly or indirectly the areas that cannot be searched. Natalee was absolutely at that house and if she didn't die there then she left a ton of forensic evidence and 17 days later they were still afraid that it would show up forensicly. Why didn't they search Paul Van Der Sloots bedroom when he was arrested? The Garden? The Main House? How about where the freshly poured concrete was? If they had nothing to hide then why in the hell did they fight so much to keep Investigators from searching the property?

I'm hoping someone will be able to provide a translation of the article regarding 17 year old female from Miami assaulted in Aruba.  It seemed to make mention of the fact that she was assaulted at a timeshare property....not sure.

A quick search for Aruba timeshares for sale yielded 400 results at just one site!

http://www.sellmytimesharenow.com/searchsell.php?crt=on&country=11&price=&unitType=&bathrooms=&week=

I wonder how the owners who can't unload their timeshares on Aruba feel about Rudy's Gold Coast Aruba timeshare development? 

While not traditionally investments that appreciate a great deal, timeshares are usually "sellable" or "tradeable".  Looks like there will be a glut of timeshare properties on Aruba!


The Caribbean Court of Justice is a joke.  The Hague is a joke.



 

Didn't KJ tell Beth they weren't allowed to search the entire Sloot property.


BOB WIT looks like a relations to Paulus.  It's all in the family.  Let's quote Paulus "A lot of people would get hurt".  The entire Sloot family would go down.

I agree and I'm not kidding he really does.

******* ... has an English translation of the Bon Dia Aruba  article where Bob Witt denies reducing the scope of the search been posted on the forum yet?

It appears that Beth and Peter Devries are on the same page as far as the contents of the search warrant which originated from the prosecutor's office.  Both of them are of the opinion that the contents dictated a full search.

However ... in October, 2005 ... Dompig claims that a full search warrant was denied by a judge following Joran's detainment and ... was denied again following Paulus' detainment.

Unless a copy of the search warrant surfaces ... I do believe that Bob Wit is going to win this one.

Janet

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Peter De Vries
On the Record w/ Greta
November 27, 2006

VAN SUSTEREN: What about the search of the van der Sloot property? Was that ever done, and was, you know--including, sort of, the cabana area where Joran lives?

DE VRIES: Well, the search in the home address of the family van der Sloot was very strange because the search warrant was made by head prosecutor Karin Janssen, and contained an allowance to search the whole address, “Montanja nineteen.” So, the gardens, the buildings--everything. But, when the police was on the spot, another high-ranking employee of the Justice office--it was Mr. Bob Wit--reduced the search warrant to only the room of Joran--and that was very strange.


Beth Twitty
MARTHA MCCALLUM
November 28, 2006
 
TWITTY: Well I think they will always have to look at there were two personnel involved from the Aruban Justice Department and that is why we do not have any evidence and that is what Joran’s attorney will have to be reminded of. It is because of Bob Witt and Ben King stopped the search warrants. It was made to initially search the entire area of Mon. 19 - the garden, the buildings and everything but on the spot a high ranking employee of the Justice Office, Bob Witt, reduced the search warrant to only the room of Joran so that’s why we do not have any evidence because of involvement of the obstruction from the Aruban Justice Department personnel.


http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/10/10/beth-twitty-credibility-1-nay-sayers-0/

Reporter: Okay, let me ask you about the search of Joran Van der Sloot house. Apparently this kid lived in an apartment that was connected to or sort of adjacent to his parents house.

Dompig: That is correct

Reporter: And the police only searched his apartment, deputy chief?

Dompig: That is correct. The fact is that we as a law enforcement agency always try to get the maximum. Meaning that we want to search as much places as possible. We were not granted by the judge a search warrant for the complete house, we only received the warrant for the apartment.  

Reporter: But what about after Paul Van der Sloot was arrested, couldn’t you get a warrant to search the house then?

Dompig: It was also denied, we were a bit disappointed with that. The judge was coming from another island I must point out. He said we didn’t make a good enough case to get a warrant.

******* ... has an English translation of the Bon Dia Aruba  article where Bob Witt denies reducing the scope of the search been posted on the forum yet?

It appears that Beth and Peter Devries are on the same page as far as the contents of the search warrant which originated from the prosecutor's office.  Both of them are of the opinion that the contents dictated a full search.

However ... in October, 2005 ... Dompig claims that a full search warrant was denied by a judge following Joran's detainment and ... was denied again following Paulus' detainment.

Unless a copy of the search warrant surfaces ... I do believe that Bob Wit is going to win this one.

Janet

You may be right, Janet.  But can Wit explain what he was doing at the Sloot house in the first place?  According to the code of ethics of the Caribbean Court of Justice, he should not be at the Sloot house under any circumstance, especially in the midst of missing person investigation.

He interfered with the investigation.  He obstructed justice, even though he is supposed to represent justice.

Wit is a dirty judge.  The CCJ code of ethics is a joke.

The Caribbean Court of Justice is a joke.  The Hague is a joke.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Yes.....but there is nothing we can do about it. If there was, we all would have done it ages ago. WTF can we do?????

I am going way out on a limb here ,but I believe that judges when they come from one rat's nest island to the next, are giving an allotment to spend for food, clothing, shelter, travel and bedding.  My guess would be that some of that money was given to Anita & Paulus for housing their judge guests and providing entertainment, so this judge was just at his home-away-from home.  If Anita had not run off to the Netherlands, she would have been there to get that all-night party together for her guests and it would not have been left up to the Sporter to provide the night's entertainment which all went sour and led us to this point in time.  Flame away, but I think that is what was going on and what has been going on for a long time. 

******* ... has an English translation of the Bon Dia Aruba  article where Bob Witt denies reducing the scope of the search been posted on the forum yet?
-------------------------

Hi Janet,Not that I have seen and I was hoping Amigoe would run the article. I don't care who the dirty corrupt lying slimebags are I just want answers. I am sick of no questions ever being answered,pointing the fingers elsewhere and no one taking the blame for anything. Nothing is one definite answer but I knowThey are caught red handed in this lie and its HUGE

We know PVDS was the head legal advisor for the Govt at one time,Worked for the Attorney General,worked on Govt contracts,good friends with the Chief of Police,knew the Minister of Justice well and was a Deputy Judge for 3 years. Working for the AG could explain somethings,like why she instructed Karen Janssen to not communicate with Beth's Family and never give interviews. What else did that Dept do to deny Natalee justice? Paul Van Der Sloot knew everyone that made important decisions in Natalee's case and it's sickening:(

I should have reviewed and edited my last post. :lol:

I am going way out on a limb here, but I believe that judges (when they come from one rat's nest island (Curaco) to the next (Aruba), were given an allotment to spend for food, clothing, shelter, travel and bedding (travel expenses, sotapspeak). 

My guess would be that some of that money was given to Anita & Paulus for housing their judge guests, in providing entertainment and lodging, so this judge, Judge Witt/Smit/Snit (who looks like a pedophile was staying over that night) at his home-away-from home  just as he could have been doing the night Natalee went missing.  Was he in the casino with Paulus that night?  Was he an older man?

If Anita had not run off to the Netherlands, she would have been there to get that all-night party together for her guests (did not Joran admonish her of this?) and it would not have been left up to the Sporter to provide the night's entertainment which all went sour and led us to this point in time. 

Flame away, but I think that is what was going on and what has been going on for a long time.

I always said Paulus' involvement is more than the disposal.  The entertainment was indeed at the Sloot home