Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

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Posted at RU  :roll: How many of these hangings had one hand in their pocket?

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Made it!!

Interesting that Drowning is a "suicide".

I wonder who the murder victim was on May 31, 2005?

thats a good question...going to look at our murder and crime thread

05/31/2005 – Rastaman “C.E.M.” fatally stabbed another man (victim Juni Tromp) on the beach.
Diario
Posted 8/19/2006 at M&C by Sharon; credit to dkpen & BLEACHEDBLACK. Also by Appeals 8/29

Regarding Ophra with a home on Aruba, it was widely discussed here several years ago.  Perhaps I accepted the info in good faith.  Who knows, sorry wasn't trying to deliver misinformation. 

From the Murder and Crime thread (I have a photo of him somewhere)

05/31/2005 – Rastaman “C.E.M.” fatally stabbed another man (victim Juni Tromp) on the beach.
 
Diario
Posted 8/19/2006 at M&C by Sharon; credit to dkpen & BLEACHEDBLACK. Also by Appeals 8/29

Back then we were told so many things by people we "thought" were reliable.  We know better now.  :wink:

When you think about it why the hell would Oprah want to buy a home on that crapola island when there are so many beautiful places in this world.  They could only wish she did have a house on that hell hole.

So true, Klaas. We have certainly learned a lot!

Do we know when Beth and Matt are going to be on Oprah?

Amen! We know their system NOW, or should I say dis-system.

IdStLou, great find.  I was looking for and then at the www.mementomori.net site

O/T

Breaking News >> 6.4 Magnitude Earthquake Strikes Off Oregon Coast, USGS Reports  

Yes, a week from today Wednesday the 16th

Well Monkeys...helping the little guy with homework and posting..lol..getting tired. Have a good night all and keep the faith!!

sending them prayers on my way out of the cage!!

Hey Mishy 1/16

 :shock: :shock: :shock:

Thanks Klaas. Going to set up my tivo now...

Thanks NM  :lol:

Oprah will offer Beth an audience of possibly 20,000,000 viewers that she can share the details of her ordeal in Aruba and possibly bring the viewers up to date news on the current affairs of Aruba's affairs. While she must not libel or slander anyone, she could tell the following:

1. Joran was the last known person with Natalee. It is alleged that he broke during interrogation and revealed that something bad happened to her and they buried her near the fishermans hut, but that he refused to sign the "confession" after being allowed to be comforted and advised by his parents. She could also show photo's of Joran subsequently leading the police to the fishermans hut where he said she was buried.

2. That the boys immediately began a series of lies designed to obstruct the search for Natalee, and point out that as in all searches time was of the essence as it is a life or death situation. And she can even defend the boys behavior explaining that Deepaks mother said all boys lie and the other excuse that they were simply scared teenagers not wanting to be in trouble for leaving a girl on the beach, and they were so scared that the fact that her life was in imminent danger was irrelevant to them.

3. They lied and framed 2 innocent black men, that the police chose to give them enough credibility to deprive these 2 men of their liberty and to charge them with murder, that the police released the boys without searching their property, and that the police immediately busted into the 2 mens homes unannounced to arrest them and search the premises and property, after already discovering that the boys, who were the least seen with her, had lied about their stories, repeatedly.

4. That Aruba has already had a case where racism was alleged, Eduardo Mathew, who successfully filed an appeal claiming he was abused as a prisoner in the KIA Detention Center. But point out that just because it appears that Aruba has serious race issues, it isn't necessarly so. Could be coincidence.

5. Anita, Joran's Mom, was knowledgable of the color, style, and pattern of Natalee's panties.

6. She could play the audio recording of the boys conversation in the back of the police car, replaying the comment by Depak saying, "Your own father!"

7. Replay Dompigs statement that the boys were obviously guilty as hell.

8. That Minister of Justice Rudy Croes was alleged by his own country's media to have been caught with 3 sex slaves he was planning on prostituting. Of course she could explain that government officials in Aruba aren't that well paid and they have to moonlight to make end meets. Point out that he has another night job and that it is developing a $65,000,000 project in Aruba. Pretty good for the son of a school teacher who died at an early age, who grew up to be a lab technician prior to becoming the Minister of Justice. And she could point out just how smart he must be since he doesn't even have any legal experience or a law degree.

5. That Guido Wever claimed that Joran and him were lovers at one time.

6. That Deepak allegedly claimed that he, his brother, and Joran had sex in the same room at the same time with the same girl on occassions. Considering Guido's claim, there is no reason to believe that the situation was awkward for the boys.

And the list could go on. Hopefully a high lights video of the story of the Natalee Holloway case. Maybe even point out that Renfroe states that any parent who would send their teenagers or young adults to Aruba without direct parental supervision deserves what happened to Beth, and in fact should be charged with manslaughter.

Being careful not to accuse anyone, but just replaying the public news concerning the case. She could also point out that Joran's attorney has a home in Sicily as well as New York and is a very prominent defense attorney. And based upon the people he represents, he must be damn good.

I wish that both PI's story and Beth's book feature could be shared.  It is about time the world knew. 

Excellent compilation PI.  I suggest that you send it to Beth immediately for her consideration.

Janet

I always have to rely on appreciated updates that are posted by Monkeys on the forum as ... my cable package does not include Fox Channel as well as the other channel which host Natalee's family members as guests.  I am thankful for the unofficial transcripts which are posted very quickly as well as the official transcripts and Carpe's YouTube videos which usually appear the following day on the respective media websites.

This interview will be different and ... I am sooo excited.  I do received the Oprah Winfrey show.  I will be recording the entire program.

Janet

So absolutely true, Dayhiker.

I wish these Investigative Journalist would actually read that transcript for once as Joe T has said over and over again those tapes show his client has no idea where Natalee is. You will get 15 years if they find the girl tells us the exact opposite.

 Beth can also tell everyone what Judge Wit said 2 weeks ago about Dompig and the OM. Not only was most of the property not searched but the Judge said Dompig obstructed Justice because he wanted the Van Der Sloots to have there privacy. He also said that the OM never requested to search anything more than just Jorans Apt. They are caught,not only in this lie but many others. We know Peter De Vries told us the poilice were shocked when they got to the VDS Residence and found out the Judge changed the search warrant to just Jorans Apt and 2 cars. After reading most everything I am convinced there was a confession and blood in Deepak's vehicle. Bumbling mistakes made over and over again by friends of Paul Van Der Sloot? Not a chance!

Since when do Murder and Kidnapping suspects get immunity from having their property searched?

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I see Kawish and Michael Dompig are both trying to be Aruba's next top model. I wonder if GVC dropped out because he's been dabbling in the islands imports too much?

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http://www.arubamodelsearch.com/

In English now:

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Tourist drowns at Conchi 

A Bulgarian tourist has drowned yesterday after having fallen into the rough sea near the bathing-place Conchi, a popular tourist attraction at the northern coast of the island.

ORANJESTAD – A tourist drowned yesterday around 11:00, when he fell in the rough seas right outside the bathing-place at Conchi in the Arikok national park. The Natural Pool, as referred to by the tourists, is a popular attraction and lies at the northern coast of the island.  The 30-year old Bulgarian tourist was swimming with friends in the natural pool.  For still unknown reasons, the man fell from the rocks at Conchi in the sea that was rougher than usual due to the hard winds of the last days.   

Two rescue teams tried to reach the area where the man has fallen in the water.  By means of ropes tied to a jeep, one of the teams succeeded, but the man had already died.  When salvaging the body, one of the rescue workers got lightly injured, when a big wave threw him against a rock. 

The foundation that manages the national park including Conchi knows about the danger of the rough see near the natural pool.  We have placed a considerable amount of signs warning the vacationers for the danger, says Ambrosio Curiel of the National Park Arikok Foundation.  After yesterday’s incident, the foundation is considering placing park rangers again at the location to keep an eye on the people. 

Curiel regrets the accident with the Bulgarian tourist.  “It is tragic, but the location attracts people.  It has a beautiful view, but a visit is not without danger.  Waves more than three meters high have been seen at that location.” 


Sad :sad:

******* - wasn't that last years contest?  Aruba Model Search 2007  :wink:

and for sure, show that video of the dressed to the hilt aruban businessman, at the dump in the sweltering heat and stink, watching dave and jossy's son digging amongst the rotting garbage for his daughter's body, telling greta that beth just needed to go home, shut up, and get over it.  a true example of aruba's good heartedness and goodwill towards americans.  that will go over real big.
dennisintn

I don't know how it seems to other people, but Beth IS NOT profiting from Natalee's death, and people who think so are simply not aware of her plan, or at least my perception of her plan. She was quoted early on as promising the powers to be in Aruba that she would be the voice of Natalee seeking justice for her until her last breath on earth. Seeking justice for Natalee was to become her new career. In order to do that she began a foundation that allowed her to speak out to large audiences while earning a living doing it, thus "endowing the message" to ensure Natalee's words are heard until justice was found. Writing a book enabled her to further speak out for Natalee in print, memorializing the words of Natalee and the deeds of the guilty for eternity, while once again funding an endowment that will assure her of the ability to live her life speaking out for justice for Natalee.

In order to do this she took a huge risk. She left a very good career working with children, and at the age of, I better withhold that, and while grieving for the loss of her daughter, she embarked on a career of public speaking and book writing even though she had no prior experience or education in either field. This is even more remarkable considering that she had another child due to begin college in a couple of years at that time. Even facing a divorce and life as the sole provider for her and her son she kept loyal to her promise. She never looked back, and never doubted she could be self supporting allowing her to do what she promised Aruba she was going to do, speak out for justice for Natalee, full time, until she breathed her last breath.

I would say she did all of this on her own, but it is obvious to the world she did this with the strength and love of people like you all who cared enough to get involved and help her speak out. I believe despite the loss, which has surely been great, she feels to a certain degree blessed to have your support.

I was looking for GVC..Where is he? Clearly this is their best model in the Middle..He's got the look  :lol:
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There is no reason for her to personally accuse anyone at this time. She can merely cause the airwaves to be filled with the various newsclips and videos of the case. They tell the story quite well and the viewers can come to their own conclusions. The way it should be.

Dazed and confused???????????? Or slovenly and sorry:))))))))))) Just kidding

Miss AZ,

I didn't think you were. I was thinking more of gee I must be losing my memory cuz I don't recall Gail and Oprah in Aruba heh heh.


Thank you Magnolia you little dar'ln for finding where her homes are. I knew I saw that house in Hawaii.

Its ashame that Oprah won't let us produce this show!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The nerve of her::::::::))))))))))))))))

She could easily have owned homes in both places, and she might not even remember it !!! But she made all of her money the old fashion way, she worked for it and she should enjoy her success!!!!!

TRUE PI VERY TRUE - JUST A RE-CAP OF THE TRUTH

Roland Halley was Mister World model or something.
His dad is the crooked cop.

Ernesto (freddy's brother) is another model.

follow up on that model agency - it seemed to me to be some kind of front is all.

One thing ,of the many I admire Beth for is going on all of the cable shows to
keep Natalee's story in the forefront.  I couldn't have done that to save my life.
But she did.

This is just my thinking, I don't give a hoot'n nanny about money or money Beth may or may not make/earn/get.
Aruba is responsible for cover-ing up a crime committed against her daughter. A girl who was only 18 years old did not deserve to die. And those responsible all the way up the chain of command - need to be exposed and held accountable. The world will not tolerate anything less. Beth deserves the truth. And she deserves to have her daughter brought home - to AMERICA!

Are all Arubians this ugly?????????? Surely not. These must be the elite of their ugly!!!!

I hate to repeat myself, but AMEN seems the only appropriate response. She is simply keeping her word!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would say she did all of this on her own, but it is obvious to the world she did this with the strength and love of people like you all who cared enough to get involved and help her speak out. I believe despite the loss, which has surely been great, she feels to a certain degree blessed to have your support.
-------------------
Very touching PI! We care a great deal about Beth and we are all very aware at what is being said or not said at other forums about her. Most of us have never met Natalee,Beth or any member of the Family but I assure you each and every one of us feels like they are Family. We have always been here for Beth and will continue to be until Natalee is home and her Family gets the answers they deserve. Beth is a inspiration for many here and this is her home.

I feel bad having made fun of their appearances. That they cannot help.

I have limited posting priviliges at home and I have been told I have reached that limit!!!!! Good night. I hate getting bossed around all of the time!!!

 :lol:

Nite Private Eye  :D

Kawish reminds me a bit like Deepak with that stare  :shock: They are probably related also  :lol: Night!

I've watched Oprah several times lately and the shows were all repeats....not that I saw them all before, but having checked out her website found out they all were.  Glad to know that new shows are on next week, especially Wednesday with Beth and Matt.  PI said something about the taping being done early next week, which surprised me, because I thought these shows were done in advance (more advance than a couple days).....no matter....In my area, Oprah is on at 4PM on ABC....she used to be rerun later at night, but I don't know if that is still the case.  I'm assuming that she may be on at different times in different areas. 

10.17.2005
Government has its hand over Michael Posner’s head? Notorious Chicago figure active in Aruba casino
DIARIO Aruba


ORANJESTAD (AAN): Some time ago DIARIO found information regarding the manager of the Holiday Inn’s Excelsior Casino and people have been calling out to ask how a figure with a criminal past of such an extent can be active in the casino industry of Aruba.

His name? Michael Posner, owner (or one of the owners) of the Brickel Hotel situated in front of the big hotels in Malmok. In the past he was arrested in the state of Illinois for violation of the Ricco Act (racketeering) and because he was also involved in the world of prostitution.

He was condemned to 10 years in prison, but apparently he served 8 out of the 10 years. He appealed his case and lost the appeal! After he was released he was on parole for 5 years. His name is also mentioned as an associate of a notorious family.

DIARIO knows that the government is at the height of such people, and asks how he can be active in the casino industry of Aruba. How did he find a permit to work in this branch with the background that he has? How has the Minister of Justice still not taken action against him? Now that his criminal past is known, what is the government waiting for to take him out of Aruba?

During the [election] campaign which recently came to an end, many comments and rumours were circulating regarding contributions to certain politicians, including those in the [current] government. DIARIO hopes that the issue of campaign moneys remain a rumour, because if true, then there are more politicians for sale than is [already] apparent.

The presence of Michael Posner in the Aruba casino industry, with the criminal past that he has, does not speak well of the judicial control system, nor that of National Security, nor of those in charge to check the background of those who work in the tourism industry of Aruba.

This is the damage that one person with such a bad reputation, who was incarcerated during 8 years, who is associated with a notorious family in America, can cause to the tourism of Aruba.
http://tinyurl.com/2mslqw

and AMEN again, and ribbit too!

I hope Oprah will show the news conference of Beth after the K2 release,

"Two suspects were released yesterday who were involved in a violent crime against my daughter.  I am asking mothers and fathers in all nations to hear my plea.  Do not allow the Kalpoe brothers to enter your country until this case is solved.  Do not allow these criminals to walk among your citizens.  Help me by not allowing these two to get away with this crime, in the name of my beautiful daughter whom I have not seen in thirty-six days and for whom I will continue to search until I find her."

Beth quotes her words from that day in her book on pages 156-157, and although reading it brought the tears all over again for me, it was because I heard her words that day on national television and felt her pain.  Did the Aruban people feel her pain that day?  Beth reflects in her book that many Arubans were offended by her using the term "criminals" in her speech which led to fewer prayer vigils, protesters against the negative media, her being unwelcome at the Holiday Inn, and the forming of the Strategic Communications Task force to combat the negative media, and the family as Beth states.  My perception of the reaction is that Beth hit a nerve.  She had just told the world what this "dirty little island" had full intentions of doing and every mother and father on that island knew it.  They all knew that even though the K2 could go anywhere they chose to, they would stay right there and never be prosecuted for their crime.  The citizens knew how the crime against Natalee had been covered up and that all involved would "walk freely among their citizens" because none of them would dare do anything about it.  Beth had in essence called all of them "criminals" because their silence that protects the dirty secrets involves all of them in the crime. It was easier to try to run Beth and family off of the island and hope that the world would forget about what happened to Natalee than to do the right thing.  JMO

In light of my previous post there is a hero among the Aruban people, Jossy Mansur  :smt041

Yes, Jossy is a man of principle among a den of thieves and thugs.

I haven't seen anything from him during the ocean search. Have I just missed it, or has he been quiet lately?

Jose Trump missing since November 27th 2007
Thats a huge reward!!  :shock: :shock:
25,000,000 Aruban Florin = 14,124,294 US Dollars
14 million dollars? WOW! Is that right?
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You made very good use of your "limited postings" tonight PI.   :2notworthy:

Wonderful post, Private Eye! Beth is just the epitome of class and grace, with just the right touch of steel, IMO. She briefly mentioned that perhaps she would write a book on just the evidence, and I really do hope she will do that.

I keep thinking that someday, someone will make a movie out of this whole ordeal. I also hope that happens. I can't think of a better way to give exposure to the dangers that lurk in Aruba.

I was thinking the same thing.  I was wondering what they were looking at that caused that. :shock:

I think he's been quiet lately.  If there has been anything I missed it, but I've been looking....  I worry about him with all the corruption around him.

:shock: lol
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I thought the same thing also but it seems to me that Deepak's eye/eyes try to cross or something :-?...I don't think he can stare that dead-on :shock:

He look's like he is high as a kite on X in that pic.

OMG, *******, I almost went to find a picture of deepak before I made my post about the crossing of his eye/eyes but didn't and then when my post came up there it was, you'd gone and gotten it for me.  It's his right eye....

thanks!

YW :) That one eye does seem to be crossed. He just seems to look funny when he's looking straight ahead..lol
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*******...that name I asked about yesterday is there too...His name was on a Natalee blog with his tickle site. Second to last one... Shajir Croes

BrokeBack Island? :P...sorry couldn't resist :wink:

Thank you CBB for my avatar....i love it....and Im so excited that Beth and Matt will be on Oprah....yes finally...Please, if you live in NY or Boston, come to the shows and be a voice for Natalee.They are VERY Important shows...We have donations for gas money or hotel rooms...or airline tickets..We have flyers, banners...cards...sweatshirts...and pens and tote bags..WE NEED PPL...please email me at JusticeforNatalee@gail.com.

OH! I would love to be there! I don't think I could manage it, but if I could, are there tickets available? I'm excited about them being on the show too!

  I think that those kind of looks are supposed to be intimidating to us
******* ,  when I worked in corrections  we would see those new type of young prisoners come in thru intake and they would be all bid and Bold until some of the older hard core cons would have a midnight talk with them and then when they would come back out with tears all over there faces  most of the others knew what had just happened and the young man would soon learn that in prison looks don't intimidate quite a few of those men .
  I would give almost anything to see Joran the gallops and Paulis inside of a real Prison in the USA  and show just how brave they really are  .  My bet would that they would be stripped of everything that they brought in with them and then become girl friends for the lifers and others  and yes even Joran,  being big in size in prison does not mean being respected, that you have to earn  and when a group grabs you in a small room there is NOT really a lot you can do except use your head or $$, cigs,  dope ect if you can obtain it .

http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=navclient&hl=en&u=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2etelegraaf%2enl%2fbinnenland%2f2606498%2fArubaans%5foffensief%5fin%5fzaak%2dHolloway%2ehtml

beth could add klpd and mos' current views on guilt or innocence from their own sources.
dennisintn

Lala's....I am unable to find that Satish made a statement on 6/16...do I need new glasses? I am back on page 36 of the last thread where you said he and Freddy were both questioned that day. Any help would be appreciated.

Vicki, noticed a typo in your email address:

JusticeforNatalee@gmail.com

OBS - will you post this in the M&C thread? thank you.

3 out of 4 wouldn't be a bad guess  :cool:

Dear Mister Jossy,

You must be mistaken. Why Michael Posner is no different then Karin Janssen who rushed in and arrested the Security Guards based upon the three lying witnesses who became suspects for the past 3 years and have gotten
away with a crime because people like the Aruban and/or DUTCH Prosecutors intentionally mis-use your justice system to help criminals.

Judges like BRINK AND SMID AND WITT all intentionally and willfully allowed criminals to be set free. Representatives
of your country went on national media and repeatedly stated evidence must be presented in order to detain the suspects yet the ONLY EVIDENCE presented by Prosecutor Karin Janssen to detain the Security Guards was the lying statements by the kidnappers and murders of Natalee Holloway.

Now, when you can explain that to the American public and the world, then perhaps we would be concerned that
an American mobster & felon has been running your casinos in Aruba. Otherwise it appears that the joke is in Aruba
where criminals run free.

yours truly,

kermit

EXORCISTS - BOTH OF EM!

Good idea - email it to her producers.

I think he thinks that he looks "hot" like that, or sexy,etc. Somebody should be kind enough to tell him he looks like an angry mentally +++++++ teenage boy with that pose. Or a pencil d**** teenage wimp or punk, take his pick:)))))))))))) How he manages to look angry and blank at the same time though is pretty impressive!!!!!!!! And he could be a fairly attractive young man if he lightened up and smiled. I don't think they see any role models of happy well adjusted boys or young men there to emulate. Aruba reminds me of "Lord of the Flies" only in this case the males have so dominated the culture that the same fate has befallen them as did the fate of the shipwrecked boys.

There is no telling what other poses that photographer managed to talk him and his friends into participating while telling them that they have that "special look." Aruba is rampant with predators preying on innocent prey, and the poor local boys are transformed from innocent stooges into predators themselves as a result, or at least wannabe predators. The incompetence and impotence of her predators.

The young US girls who go there should acquaint themselves with Glenda to understand what they may become if they mix with the locals. Renhoes and sloots, and sorry to boot.

The "boys" (who are actually men) are only a result of the pattern of behavior that their parents taught them.
Look to the parents first!

The "boys" (who are actually men) are only a result of the pattern of behavior that their parents taught them.
Look to the parents first!


(http://www.foxnews.com/images/168436/0_22_350_sloots.jpg)

SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE

(http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9573/pauluszipperdowntg6.jpg)

Have a good one Monkey's and spread the love connection.

I'm off to eat some flies.

I think perhaps Michael Dompig should have thought about his career choices before getting that huge, ugly tatoo on his arm.  Gonna be hard to get a job with that one.  Who is going to want you to advertise their product with that gangsta looking running up your arm?  Nobody. 

This Kawish kid doesn't look intense, he looks mentally ill.

These boys both need to pick a new dream. 

We have plenty of nice looking young men.  Don't need 'em.

Pleeeeeeze stop posting their pictures...makes me want to gag...

OBS - Will you also post this on the M&C thread? Thanks.

That last photo is just a little to close to the "Lord of the Flies" but if he doesn't zip it up his open fly is going to surely attract flies:)))))))))

Oprah's web site mentions the show with Beth and Matt....next Wednesday, the 16th

http://www2.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/200801/tows_lineup_20080109.jhtml?promocode=HP32

The stats read it was a female age 36 killed with a knife on 5-51-05 at 11:45 pm in St. Nicholas.  Wonder who and if that is the real age?  Jack B

Seems like a lot of suicides given the population.

Good catch!  And a knife was stolen from the fisherman's huts!

Y'all are confusing the dates.

"31-05-05" = 05/31/2005 = Male, age 44, knife (Juni Tromp)

"31-10-05" = 10/31/2005 = Female, age 36, knife (probably also on M&C thread summary)

They both appear of mid-Eastern decent.  The Suriname people are rooted from the Mideast.     Jack

LOL...now I'm totally confused!! Will come back and read later when I can concentrate!

Thanks Msmaple...I was raised with the dates the other way around and still have to stop and think.

http://news.diario-aruba.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=13&Itemid=30&limit=9&limitstart=9 (http://news.diario-aruba.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=13&Itemid=30&limit=9&limitstart=9)   01/10/2008
Link is to Diario’s Local section

Family offering 25 thousand guilders for information leading to whereabouts of Jose Manuel Vincenzo Tromp, last seen 11/27/2007 at 8:30 a.m


Online Pap translation:

family tromp owing to place 25 thousand disponible for her tip of gold
thursday, 10 january 2008

oranjestad.(aan): as owing to stay publica in one form of exclusividad cu will bay anuncia one balente suma of recompensa for achieve tip.

yesterday morning at palace of husticia situa at santa cruz owing to worde teni one conferencia of prensa relaciona cu desaparicion of jose manuel vicenzo tromp. was present miembronan of family in person of father, mother y brother man of vicenzo.

also high inspectornan candelaria y vanessa kock was present at the ocasion here already cu they also is form part of team special encarga for her buskeda of vicenzo.

can owing to constata presencia also of vocero of ministerio publico madam ann angela. was the vocero policial suplente sr. john larmonie cu owing to open the conferencia of prensa for haci one yamado provided that especial relaciona cu the caso of vicenzo.

after of one call y one splicacion corto word owing to worde happen for fiscal sra. mr dop kruimel.
past owing to tell cu the aim principal for cual they owing to calling one rueda of prensa was for haci one call at the comunidad aruban for help localiza jose manuel vicenzo tromp.

ultimo trip, according fiscal owing to give of conoce, owing to look at vicenzo on 27 of november2007 hour past owing to bandona his cas ubica at weststraat 29 for 8:30 of morning. the was have dress the instant ey one carson cortico blauw dark till at knee, t-shirt grey sleeve cortico y slof black. f

otonan of vicenzo already owing to worde publica but tog fiscal wanted owing to describi the person here. vicenzo his color of cuero is bruin clam, his estatura is 1,80 metre. for locual is his cabey this also is as is worde describi upstairs the photograph, but the can is one some more cortico or more largo at the momentonan here.
the fiscal owing to trece fast the pakico vicenzo is worde busca y also the family.

owing to base of the responsabilidad here ministerio publico owing to form one team special consisti of more or less 12 person.

hour cu is necesario all the 12 personanan here can work together on the caso y they're trahando also for all informe cu owing to enter at the momentonan here for verifica they, but they have to of more informe.
vicenzo for enough time end owing to disparce, not know exactly kico is pasando y do not bay in direccion for think of one crimen, but alas not can exclui this because the have enough time cu past owing to desaparece.

all informe is priva already cu the aim is for hendenan give cualkier informacion con diminutive this will can is as kico they owing to see for so can continua cu the investigacion.

the family owing to relata cu vicenzo tromp was work at kia because; guardia, the is study fuera his trabao at avond vvo because; student of first year, y in his time pound the is study at biblioteca oranjestad.

can is will can have person cu will owing to mire ayanan y owing to notice algo particular.

the likes much for swim at arashi, also the likes tennis, the is one good hungador, the was afila at the tennis club champions, past owing to bay even merca for follow one curso for academico of tennis. here also will can have person cu will can suministra more informe. cada informe is for help for her team special soluciona the caso of vicenzo tromp.

various buskeda owing to being realiza y the family owing to ricibi aid, among of cruz cora. was have buskeda did take lugar at various lugar on we island, tanto in forest y abroad of forest. but not was have result.

is haci one suplica at comunidad, at personanan for calling telephone of police at 582-4000. this is the number of keep of police beach y can ask for extension 134, 135 or 136.

have personanan of the team special cu know of the caso for atende the yamadanan. but if have person cu wanted stay anonimo they can calling at the so calling tip-line 1114. is preferible for achieve informenan caminda cu have chens of combersa cu the personanan cu is suministra informacion relaciona cu the buskeda of vicenzo.

finalmente according fiscal dop kruimel owing to tell, cu on they self iniciativa the family owing to place the suma of 25 thousand guilder disponible because; recompensa.

the coin is disponible for her informacion cu is conduci for can achieve vicenzo tromp.

* * *
Two thieves (from "Toys 4 Us" ?) quickly captured.


Online Pap translation:

autoridad owing to capta two sospechoso of ladronicia
thursday, 10 january 2008

oranjestad (aan): one caso insolito owing to socede diaranzon morning in wilhelminastraat, just hour cu one accidente owing to happen in area fast toys 4 us. hendenan owing to see con two person anti-social owing to probecha of the situation of emergencia here, for steal one bag bay cune.

at careda they owing to bay east, happen in the rooi behind nv elmar. here they owing to open the bag, reboltea this y stay thing have of value. the bag self they owing to let cay eybao.

autoridad owing to worde avisa, y at once they owing to start cu one buskeda in the area.

police owing to bay in vecindario of veld of cricket, y owing to follow bay east for her area of chollerhouse in rondweg.

here they owing to strike in suerte! just behind the hardware store in rondweg, owing to come notice the two anti-social cu is cuadra cu the descripcion give.

polisnan owing to arrive for of all angle, y owing to captura they two! then in less of 15 minuut, two thief owing to worde captura.

they owing to even resisti contra they detencion, y fotografo of daily paper self owing to see con uno of they owing to zwaai one scop in direccion of police. but the agentenan owing to mantene they self calmo, y owing to immidiately wing one near.

they owing to stay deteni, for so recherche start one investigacion y determina till con far cada uno is envolvi in the caso here.

* * *
Armed driver of car at Palace (Place?) of Justice. Doesn't seem to indicate whether he was caught. Apparently a case (cases) involving 10 +/- drug suspects was about to begin.


Online Pap translation:

they owing to see one man cu arm in hand!.
alerta rond of corte of husticia

thursday, 10 january 2008

oranjestad (aan): diaranzon morning, oficialnan of police because; also recherche owing to bay in alerta maximo, specialmente in area rond of palace of husticia.

all this owing to cuminza, hour cu one funcionario publico for casualidad owing to see one car staciona near of alameda, y the chofer have one arm of candela in his power.

at once owing to beat alarma at autoridad, y this at once owing to bay in alerta.

some oficial hudicial cu was present at corte is cuida some detenido, owing to bay in extra cautela, if acaso have “cualkier cos”.

various patrol of police owing to mobiliza for her area for so check if they're achieve the car.

daily paper owing to see con oficialnan of recherche y team bijzondere projecten is vigila.

personal of cea also owing to worde see is march abroad of the edificio, cu they hand cla poni on they arm.
sinembargo already end the car cu the chofer owing to bandona the area end.

autoridad sinembargo is stay on alerta in the area here, mirando the mature cu in corte had more of 10 person kendenan owing to worde present fast huez for casonan relaciona cu drugs.

* * *

That was just in 2005,That didn't include the Tele-Aruba Producer,The Camera-Man with one hand in his pocket,The other guy with one hand in his pocket,Pitbull or any of the future suicides we read about.

Family offering 25 thousand guilders

Ahh..Ok that sounds more like a reward. 25 Million was hard to believe  :wink:

Has that look of a terrorist.  They think it's cool to look like they are terrorizing people, but they are and it's not cool.  What weak men when they only terrorize children (Joran's brothers) and women (Natalee, et al).

Apologies for not crediting the post brought over from RU - the quote stack was quite an obstacle.

(http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/558/arubamurder2005jz1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2038/suicidearuba2005ue1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Comparison of the RU Murders and Suicides for 2005, with our count.

Murders - 2005

* * *

This must be the 03/27/2005 murder reported in RU’s post. Age 34, Male, gunshot.

03/??/2005 - Brazilian man murdered by another Brazilian man. BonDia? No details available now.
Posted 8/16/2006 at LCD by Shizaru; to M&C via msmarple

* * *

Omitted by RU post:
04/30/2005 - Fatal shooting (victim “E.F.”) during a party near hotel La Cabana.
Amigoe.com
Posted 8/20/2006 at M&C by msmarple

* * *

This is the 05/31/2005 murder reported in the RU post.

05/31/2005 – Rastaman “C.E.M.” fatally stabbed another man (victim Juni Tromp) on the beach.
Diario
Posted 8/19/2006 at M&C by Sharon; credit to dkpen & BLEACHEDBLACK. Also by Appeals 8/29

* * *

05/31/2005 – Without apology - we include Natalee Holloway in our count of victims murdered on Aruba in 2005.

* * *

This is the 06/17 murder reported in RU post. He was found the next day.

06/18/2005 – Rene Michel van Heyningen found at a cemetery; partially decapitated; wife was charged, convicted.
Posted 8/10/2006 at M&C by Anna; credit to SunFreak2

* * *

Omitted from RU post, and we did not include this in the Murder count for 2005: 

06/20/2005 – Body found on a boat. No further details available now.

* * *

This must be the “10/31/2005” murder RU’s post reports. The dates are off, and the age is one year off, but these could be typos from whatever source.

11/04/2005 - Margarita Nedd-Panaqua, 35, from Dominican Republic. Stabbed by a jealous boyfriend.
Posted 8/10/2006 at M&C by Anna; credit to SunFreak2

* * *
This must the be the “11/01/2005” murder RU’s post reports. The dates are off, and the age is one year off, but these could be typos from whatever source.

11/04/2005 - Galyson Lucas Winster, a 27 year old, reportedly a drug addict, shot in the head.
Posted 8/10/2006 at M&C by Anna; credit to SunFreak2

*  * *

Finally – we do not have the “12/12/2005” murder RU reports, of a 36 year old male, by car.  (Wonder if Ramm would argue with RU about that one. He would know what I’m talking about.  :wink:)

Will have to edit that  one in some day; would bring OUR murder count for 2005 to 8.

* * *

Suicides

We did not post many suicides in the earlier months of the M&C thread.

These are the only two posts we have re. suicides, or possible suicide, on Aruba in 2005. (All of those mentioned by ******* are in 2006 or later, and we do have those.)

Interesting that those we do have, don’t seem to match well to any of those in the RU post - No "jumpings" or 30-year-old women, as examples.

* * *

Summer 2005 – Two security guards jumped off building (separate episodes). La Cabana Hotel was the site of one (maybe both) of them. That there are two instances, same occupation, maybe same building, make this suspicious.

There were at least two other reported suicides that summer – one “on the beach”, one “30-yr-old woman”.
Posted 8/16/2006 at M&C by Tidycat; and 8/29/2006 by Appeals

* * *

This is interesting. RU post does not seem to include Robert Wayne Benson as either a murder or a suicide. We did not include his death as a murder.

The closest match in the RU post seems to be "11/10/2005 - 46 - Male - Poison"

11/16/2005 - Robert Wayne Benson, 56 year old American expat, a Harley Davidson mechanic, found dead, locked in a storage container behind the shop in Cura Cabay where he worked. (Have read that it was a suicide and natural cause – but it’s the locked container that that seems strange. Have read that it was locked on the inside, and also that it was locked on the outside.) Diario
Posted 8/10/2006 at M&C by Anna; credit to SunFreak2

* * *

After looking at my post I think I meant to type Sander instead of Satish.  I had noticed the next day 6/17 that Satish was interrogated again, but I meant Sander.  I was talking about Sander at the time...sorry.  I got my names mixed up.  That's what I get for being in a hurry.  You don't need new glasses....I do.

Hope I don't eat one of his flies.

Heh Heh

 X. Persistence

Update: Thurs 10-Jan 1635 hrs
The bathymetric survey of the new grid is completed. -update will come shortly

Kermit ... Miss Piggy gave me your mother's shoe-fly pie recipe and ... it is in the over right now.  Hop right over ... it's lunchtime in my next of the woods.

Ribbit

Janet
12:10 PM

Yum. Do I need to bring anything?

It was Deepak and Sander that were questioned on 6/16/05.

Juan Enrique BOEZEN and Shaniro Baldrik KELLY
SATISH 6/09/2005 STATEMENT
SATISH 06/10/2005 STATEMENT
SATISH 06/10/2005 2nd STATEMENT ON THAT DATE


DEEPAK 6/09/2005 STATEMENT
DEEPAK 06/10/2005 STATEMENT
DEEPAK 06/13/2005 STATEMENT
DEEPAK - 6/16/2005 STATEMENT

Shaniro Baldrik KELLY and Clyde Anthony BURKE
SANDER GOTTENBOS - 06/16/2005 STATEMENT
CARLOS RAMOS (gardener witness) Statements 7/26 - 8/16/2005
SANDER GOTTENBOS - 06/16/2005 STATEMENT
SANDER GOTTENBOS - 06/17/2005 STATEMENT

Mr. Kermit...that would be The Rainbow Connection and you sing it
so beautifully.  It is one of my favorites.

(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/6639/kermitbanjosl5.jpg)
Miss Magnolia you make me blush.

Shaniro Baldrik KELLY and Clyde Anthony BURKE, respectively sergeant and sergeant first class with the Korps Politie Aruba and both detached to the Detective district 2, d - DEEPAK - 6/16/2005 STATEMENT


Dennis Dominico Jacobs, Juan Enrique Boezem and Luigi Angelo Giovanni Croes, respectively head agents and agent first class at the Korps police force Aruba, former classified at the assaulted project team and others at the Recherde district 2 - JORAN/SATISH FACE TO FACE MEETING 06/16/2005



Shaniro Baldrik KELLY and Clyde Anthony BURKE - SANDER GOTTENBOS - 06/16/2005 STATEMENT



DISTRICT 2 = SHABA
Roland Tromp
Jose Anthony
Elio Dania
Carina Boekhoudt
Edwin Thijsen

This is the look kow-squash was going for.

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/nmauimikee/zoolander.jpg)

Well, I've never said anything, but there's something really wierd about Anita's bra. I mean she's got pads in it...................there is no part of Anita that requires padding; she's got plenty of her own making.

Anyone case related?

newsday.com/news/local/wire/newjersey/ny-bc-nj--heroinbust0110jan10,0,6476827.story

We should check to see if there's anyone MIA from RU  :lol:

Aruba and the Netherlands get tough on drugs -

http://www.refdag.nl/artikel/1328734/Drugscontrole+door+werkgever+terecht.html



Rough translation through babelfish ~

I wonder how frequent the testing is? 

OMG!  :shock:

Has anyone looked at the Diario today?  They post the online at http://news.diario-aruba.com/

There is a little picture of what the print edition looks like ~

(http://news.diario-aruba.com//images/stories/2008N/januari/10/front.jpg)

It looks like a big garbage dump is on fire.  I hope they aren't blaming this on TES.  It's like a repeat of a few years ago.  :roll:

The funny thing about this story is that she was riding a bus to move
half a million dollars worth of Heroin.

There have been suggestions that many have been banned from RU recently.  However, this does not mean by any stretch of the imagination or speculation, that they are 'missing'.  They may have run away.  Prior to running away, they many have said bad things.  My opinion, of course. 

Maybe the climate is changing and it's ok to say people are missing in Aruba.  I don't know.   :gaah:

In response to questions about Travel Show info:
2 VERY IMPORTANT TRAVEL SHOWS COMING UP!

Boston is first

http://www.bostonglobetravelshow.com/

NY is next:
http://www.nyttravelshow.com/

Okay, all you New Englanders and New Yorkers.
Don’t be shy. Natalee needs you. The group going needs you.

Bostonians and New Yorkers need to be reminded of the injustice done to Natalee.

Tourists need to be educated.

Boston and NY are major events.

Come and help out. Hold a sign. Hand out flyers and giveaways.
If you can only help for a day or a few hours, still volunteer.

Ask anyone who has attended these shows–you will feel so good about the way you helped Natalee.

So whatever it takes to get there, please try.
If you have to share rides, etc. to get there, just do it.
Where there is a will, there is a way.

Look on Yahoo: Last year I found an inexpensive flight for only $50 each way.

Please contact Vicki: JusticeforNatalee@gmail.com
if you want to attend or help in any way.

ALL HELP IS GREATLY APPRECIATED.

Thank you and peace to all of you.
 :smt052 :smt052 :smt052 :smt052

 T-shirts and sweatshirts bearing Natalee's image have been donated for
all supporters attending the shows. The sweatshirts are very warm.

Very sad what happened to that Bulgarian tourist and it was probably a accident. I noticed after I posted the picture of the cuts and dried blood on his feet Imageshack took down the picture. If there is a Forensic Pathologist reading here please view the pics on the FP. Sorry if I offended anyone,I just don't trust anything Aruba has to say and for good reason. I have seen two recent hangings where both men had there hand in one pocket,a american locked in a storage bin,a tele-aruba producer and her camera man both hung within weeks and Pitbull who's head was bashed in,body parts cut off and set on fire. All ruled suicides and this was just a fraction of the suspicious deaths the last 3 years.

I just read something that was actually true at RU.
Paulus would be no good at cards because he would
start to sweat and everyone would know what he had.
 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Heh..Well we know he sucks at lying! Well they both do  :wink:

PVDS says in his PV he played a free Carribean Stud Tournament that Joran took over. Joran says it was a Texas Hold EM Tournament. Amazing that they couldn't even get that lie correct. Joran says he won like $150(300 Florin?) which he gave$100 to his dad for taking his seat,Apparently it was too much money for the big gamblers so PVDS had to go to the bank the next day to deposit it  :roll: Didnt Joran lose like $150 that night in BJ? $5 Minumum hands in BJ will catch up to ya quickly when losing :wink: PVDS the next day was urgently trying to deposit this little bit of money that Joran allegedly won is laughable. Joran by his own admission was losing or winning a couple hundred a night.

We also saw a PV of Jorans friend who lended him money because Joran didn't have any after the tournament. PVDS says he leaves at 18:30 to go home but appears to be on film at 20:14. Joran is playing BJ at 20:14 so when did he take his fathers place in this tournament if he was playing BJ? In his statements he says he played the tournament until 22:00. You cannot be playing BJ and playing at another table at the same time. Surely it would have taken him hours at least 3 more to reach a final table and finish in 4th place. Why so many lies about what took place in the casino? What was Paul's real reason for going to the bank?

When I was a kid I could always tell when my brother was lying. About the 10th time asking him if he was lying his nostrils would move a bit :lol:

the bank story was a LOAD OF CRAP  :cool:

So...why was it so important to account for the time at the bank
or to invent a reason to go to the bank?
Joran said several times that he kept cash at his room.
Paulus picked Joran up at school at 12:30 and they went to
the police station.  What did they do then?

I get confused when you use BJ for Black Jack, ******* :lol:

Your right Robots,It's all a load of crap!! :wink: I see Joran tells PVDS he won $150 U.S. but Sanders says $350 U.S. Now how much did Joran say he won in his PV?

150.00 USD = 223 guilders
150.00 USD = 270 Florin

(6-18 PV)Joran had told me he had won third place, he said he had won 150$ and had exchanged these into Aruban Florin.

(6-23 PV)At the bank I talked to Ruth DIJKHOFF. At the bank I deposited the
money that Joran said that he had won in the “Free Tournament in
the Holiday Inn” on the 29th of May 2005. It was approximately
500 Aruban guilders. Joran had given me 100 guilders because he
had taken over my place in the tournament.

(PVDS 6-18)I immediately called him with my wife's mobile phone and he answered me that he was at the Wyndham. Where was Anita's phone on May 30th-June 1st and what calls were made?

What call's were made on Anitas phone and where from on 5-30 to 6-1-05?

Something awful fishy about what happened at the Casino and why he said he went to the bank. I guess we can't talk to Ruth Dijkhoff because she's dead  :shock: :-? Obviously if PVDS was at the bank it was to make a large transaction or to get access to the video camera tape. Still not quite sure why they are lying so much about the casino and the bank.

Sorry to confuse you  :lol: Sometimes my posts are way to wordy  :wink:

I just started a thread at Oprah's message board about the show next week...yes, the wingnuts will be out in full force, but I felt I should do something.

Justice for Natalee Holloway
Jan 10, 2008 9:34 PM 2njsons
1 posts since
Jan 10, 2008
 I'm glad to see you will have Beth Holloway and her son, Matt, on your show next week. The case needs to be heard and seen on the networks and it's finally going to be on yours. There are many who have supported the family from the outset, which will be 3 long years this May.

Justice for Natalee

*******,
I may have missed something.  Did PVDS visit the ATM twice in the early morning hours of 5/30 or was that misinformation? 

I figure that Anita had Paulus' phone with her in NL....his had the International
calling and hers didn't.

That is one of the first rumors that we heard about all of this. I have never seen anything official if it was fact or fiction. My gut tell's me it is true and he was seen in that red jeep at 4AM. Probably was at a ATM near a Mcdonalds.

4. PAULUS ATM USED THE NIGHT NATALEE DISAPPEARED: (Tito Lacle is a reporter for Fox News, who lives in Aruba and he posted at scared monkeys answering questions as Iam Tito)

ATMS
IamTito
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Location: aruba
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:56 pm    Post subject: more answers    Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
Mishy.. activity on ATMS have not been revealed.. its limited though

Digicel is next door to the CMB bank.

I believe he already showed us what he had
heh heh

(http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9573/pauluszipperdowntg6.jpg)

Dang Kermie....

I was all lurking and you just made me nauseous

Posted tonight at RU:

K Hemingway = Moonshadows (FOB) explains her position in the case  :wink:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/KhemMoon.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/KhemMoon2.jpg)

We knew Moonshadows claimed to be Anita's friend but who is Chris Keating the other registered owner at FOB2? I see he is also originally from Michigan and lives in Florida  :wink:

as with everything a SLOOT does in their lives
there is an about 15 percent truth in everything they do


did paulus go to the bank?
probably

did he go to the bank to deposit money killer joran gave him
not a chance

maybe paulus went to the bank and maybe paulus MET someone in the bank parking lot


 :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Yeah, we knew but I've never seen Moonshadows post it so clearly.  I don't know who Chris Keating is. 

anita posts on some of these BOARDS

you know she does

 :cool:

He's a little weasel that runs FOB2 and won't admit why he runs a hate site about a victim and her family or why he supports the Van Der Sloots. Why don't you come out of hiding? At least Moonshadows admits why she is involved. Your a total coward Chris..

me too!

there were posts earlier in the day with this pic and the one of Anita in her see thru blouse and talk of "Lord of the flies" that had me giggling so much I was afraid my boss would hear me....

Would someone please take my hand and lead me to the casino video location?  Is it in the Important Case Documents? TIA

 X. Persistence

Update: Thurs 11-Jan 0030 hrs
The bathymetric survey of the new grid is completed. The search area now totals approximately 57 sq miles, compared to the original 22 sq miles.

Maritime map making has long been an integral aspect of ocean exploration. As adventure seeking sea-faring men of old expanded their frontier, master artisans such as Ortelius and Cicero painstakingly plotted their progress. Instead of producing drab plots where form follows function, they used their artistry to produce meaningful navigation aids and passionately capture the spirit of exploration into their product. Areas of the yet-unknown are filled with caricatures of sea monsters and mermaids.

Today, a new generation of maritime map making, perhaps ushered in by Heezen and Tharpe, provides a new look into the abyss. Hand-painted murals with Latin place names are now replaced with computer generated 3D perspective views with satellite imagery. The old merchant ships and frigates that once sailed these waters charting coastlines and reefs claimed by the sea can now be found and mapped. It is an interesting connection between the old and new. We sail the same seas.

(http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/8831/aruba3ddq9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Do you think that is that North Western part of the island
near the Gottenbos house and where Deepak took a pee?
Looks like it to me.

Now we know who is "Dirty Hand'"

CHARLES CROES !!!

Yes


(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/SunFreak2/ArashiBeachMap2.jpg)

Not positive, but the search area map posted on the Persistence blog appears to be in the area right where the words Arashi Beach are and then to the north of it.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ArashiBeachMap2.jpg)


(http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/8831/aruba3ddq9.jpg)

Well if Natalee did get off a phone call on someones cell phone,logicly that would be the first person Paul Van Der Sloot went to visit. Well maybe the second after his buddy Jan Van Der Straaten. I know Charles owned the Fastphones rental at the Airport but no idea where he would have a office,probably at another location. It sure was at the top of his list of things to do was getting to that bank. He said he even went there twice.

I saw a few lotteries recently in Aruba for businesses. One of them was like $350 a ticket and say a 1000 tickets,the winning ticket gets the business. I aslo heard that Hiram's dad  is affiliated with these Lotteries in Aruba. Thats probably why Mr.Matthews was so angry when they robbed him of his business and when he didn't back down and keep his mouth shut he payed the price. Nobody ever wins vs the Aruban Govt. Their offers you cant refuse..The only people that they can't torture,kill,extort money from or blackmail is the Dutch Govt and right now Rudy Croes is boycotting them  :wink:

Thanks Klaas for the comparisions.  It makes it easy to see.
I am glad to know they are there.  I feel that is the right spot.
I got a little nervous with Hodges talking about going out
from the Fisherman's Huts.

Does Moonshadows live on Aruba?

I agree, and PVDS probably had to make another trip to make sure CC accompanied the family when they arrived....I've heard that the VDS weren't rich and "got by", makes me wonder.   :-?  I would imagine that the payoffs would have been a LOT more than the little sporter won...

Pretty Pups, Texasmom.

No, she lives in Florida

In this statement Joran said he lost and says nothing of making final table and placing 3rd or 4th. Neither him or Paul was playing in that tournament at 20.00 hours that I am sure of. None of this makes any sense and everything eventually was a lie. I think it was PVDS who cooked up the lie about winning money so he had a excuse to go to the bank. They are trying to make the timeline 2 hours later but they are caught on video at 20:14 playing BJ. He says he didn't play BJ until after 22:00..I believe Natalee was in the hotel getting ready for C&C at that time.

Joran 6/9 statement
At my father's request I sat in for him and played "Texas Hold'm poker. I am not sure as to when half time was but I think it was between 19.00 and 20.00 hours. I kept on gambling until I lost too. This was according to me until 21.30 to 22.00 hours.I went to walk around in the casino and after that went to the "Blackjack" table to play blackjack. While I was sitting at the table the girl "Natalee" that is missing now to the blackjack table together with her friends

thanks Magnolia!

Better make that "Slimy Hand."

Oh, no, I have an Aruban avatar--it disappears! :shock: :shock:

good job *******!

Thx TM! I know all this has been gone through with a magnifying glass but just bothers me that none of there lies/statements add up. Not even the time before Natalee went missing :(

LMAO!

Yes, and that the Dutch nor the Arubans even bothered to get to the bottom of these lies.  And the judges didn't think all this lying was enough evidence to hold them.  Or that all this lying was obstucting justice.  And that Joran can put on his smug smile for the cameras after all this lying.   

People that lie as much as these people do DON'T KNOW HOW TO TELL THE TRUTH!
Plus they never had any fear of being accountable for their lies so they didn't care how many they told.  When and if they were ever confronted with inconsistencies, or couldn't remember WHAT they'd said, they could just choose to not answer since they'd already made a statement. 

Yet another interesting night on board the Persistence.  If you wanted to know where the search grid was, why not just ask?  I'm suprised I have never been asked that question. 

You guys would make great explorers back in the 1400's and would rival with the best even the Vikings  :wink: I pray you go down in the history books on that kind of legendary status,finding Natalee would definetly be a unbelievable achievement.. Either way you guys are still heroes in our books for making the attempt..

Where yall searchin? Wheres the search grid?  :lol:

OK, Ocean, I am asking.  I would also like to know the legend on the colors.
If you wouldn't mind.  We were worried about you when your internet was
down.  I would also like to know where TES searched before.
Thank you kindly.

Hi Oceanexploration!

So good to see you, hope everything is going your way out there!

Just reading old PV'S and the name Chato appeared(Leonardo)We havent heard to much about him have we? I wonder if his Ford PU is white?
Also i saw this in Satish statement on the 11th. Why was Paul sleeping in the main house?
The father of Joran at that moment was sleeping inside the house.

I don't like the phrasing of "going down" in history.  It implies sinking, and/or death - a sure way to enter the history books following achievement.  I plan on neither any time soon. By now I'm sure the RU-ites have done Google search comparisons and figured it out from the pic I posted.  It's a 5.5 x ~10 mile grid.  NW side of the island. Perhaps I should have included a scale bar on the fig..

Well back to work.  Goodnight all.  God bless.  Thanks for the prayers and words of encouragment. All the crew is sincerely thankful for the support. ~K

RU has been busy fighting amongst themselves tonight and I don't think they noticed it yet  :wink:

Ocean,
I have another question....right off of the brach on that
North Western tip down toward Arishi beach you can
see a very large rectangular object in the water and
the waves break over it.  It would nearly have to be
manmade due to the straight edges.  Do you know
what it is?
I see it on the global incident map.

Goodnight Kyle - thanks for all you and the rest of the crew are doing!

Sorry, not the best choice of words  :cool: Naw..You guys are on a mission from Gawd as the Blues Brothers would say and I expect a safe voyage until everyone is safe back home..No one has ever searched the bottom of those seas like you have..Similar to the great explorers of the 15th and 16th centuries who sailed into the unknown and made history when they discovered the new world..Of Course the first Viking found the New World by accident :wink:

I read on the Marine Report earlier tonight that the seas
will be much calmer Friday and Saturday and then pick up
again on Sunday through Tuesday.

Thanks for the information, Kyle.

Goodnight and God Bless!

Word's can't describe how thankfull we are!! Do you have any interesting targets to look at tommorow? Best of luck kyle! May tommorow be the day!

You're right Aruba, I don't understand your justice system.

I don't understand a system that allows people to lie, unless someone utters the magic word and then they must tell the truth.
I don't understand why you are allowed to drink when you are underage.
I don't understand why you are allowed to gamble when you are underage.
I don't understand why a father connected to this system not only allows his son to do this, but goes drinking and gambling with him.
I don't understand how a man who has friends on the police department and is involved in the system would take so long to answer the door when those people come banging on this door late at night.

About parent-child relationships:
I don't understand why you run home and tell Mommy what kind of underwear someone you were making out with was wearing.
I don't understand why parents can't seem to dress themselves.
I don't understand how your mommy can think you are a sporter when your sport seems to be trying to score with women with or without their permission.
I don't understand how your mommy thinks if she was on the island none of this would have happened.  (Who wears the pants in this family--correctly I mean).  We know who wears the bra.
I don't know how you expect your son to keep his fly closed when you can't.

About your monetary system:
I don't understand how a boy witout a job can afford to go drinking so often.
I don't understand how a boy without a job can afford to buy drinks for other people.
I don't understand how a boy without a job can afford to go out gambling often.
I don't understand how a boy who needs to borrow money needs to make a deposit in the middle of the night.
I don't understand how a boy without a job can afford to pay someone to photoshop pictures.

About time in Aruba:
I don't understand why a grown man who is never without a watch can't tell if it is 11:00 PM or 4:00AM.  :2doh:

About the water currents:
I can't understand why the current spits some bodies out while it makes others disappear. 

About hospitality/sanitation:
I don't understand how you could spit in the food of anyone, let alone a grieving mother.

About morals:
I don't understand why a boy, who picked up a girl, took advantage of her believing she was intoxicated after he supplied her with alcohol at the end of the night, abused her while his friends were in the car,  left her alone on the beach, managed to make his shoes disappear, killed his own dog, framed two innocent men, admitted to lying to the police, and photoshopped pictures of a missing girl who has people grieving for her, can becomes a cult hero.   :-x

I don't understand, it must be the cowboy in me.  At least I know how to zipper my own pants.   :roll: :roll:

GREAT POST, Bearlyhere.  I hope you told them all of that when you rescued your avatar!

This indeed did happen and was posted in a paper.  Which one I can't remember now, but when we went to aruba that beach was pointed out to me as to "this is where the man drank poison".  And that was only 2 months later which is why I remember it so well.  Hope that helps.  I have no links.

Thanks, texasmom.   The Klaasmeister swooped in and did her magic.

I know there are good people in Aruba and I don't mean them.  I mean people who add 2+2+2+2 and come up with zero.

Thanks, Kyle, and thanks to all of those giving up a chunk of their lives to help.

Exactly!

This was the picture in the paper for that event:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Copyofarubasuicide111105.jpg)

Thanks so much Klaas.  Going to bed now.  Good night all.

Goodnight Klaasend!

Description: DNA comparison (between blood samples and Deepak Kalpoe's car seat samples)
Source: NFI
Lab nr: none
Location: Den Haag, Holland
---------------------------------
Strange there is no name attached to this report..On everything else there seems to be. Also I see nowhere where they looked into Anita's cell phone records. You would think that would be in the discoveries because PVDS says Joran was using it on May 31st,one day after Natalee went missing

Nite Klaas, Nite HS.

There you go, trying to use logic again.  :roll:

These two reports are very interesting  :wink:

Title: Subpoena on Sprint for tel nr: xxx subscriber: Paul Brough
Date: 08109/2005
Location: Miami, Florida
File #: 163a-bb-1426-571
Initiator: SA WILLIAM T. CLAUSS 2
-------------------------
Nameffitle/Description: Hayley Carroro Sagona
Date: 06/06/2005
Pages: 3
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Jamaica, NY
Writer/Initiator: SA Gregory T. Mchugh

Name,Title/Description: Hayley Sagona (urine samples)
Date: 06/07/2005
Pages: 1
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Huntington NY
Writer/Initiaton Nurse Marie 0' Brain

I know it :( Maybee they didn't check Anita's cell phone records because Dompig wanted to give the phone it's privacy  :roll:

Justice for Natalee Holloway: Lost in the 'War on Terror'?
English (US)  January 10th, 2008 (The Corner Report)

By Patrick Cloutier

On 30 May 2005, Natalee Holloway disappeared while vacationing on Aruba. As of 18 December 2007, Aruban authorities closed her case. From beginning to end, the island's authorities demonstrated no interest in solving her disappearance. Why didn't the US pressure Aruba to look more thoroughly into Natalee Holloway's disappearance? Some answers may lie with Big Oil and the 'Global War on Terror.'


At the time of Natalee Holloway's disappearance, the U.S. Government was pressing NATO countries for military contributions to the Global War on Terror. One of these countries was the Netherlands. Aruba belongs to the Netherlands.

The Netherlands did have 1,400 men in Iraq, but withdrew them all in March 2005. The withdrawal of the Dutch from Iraq came soon after Spain--another NATO member--withdrew its 1,300 troops. The withdrawal of two NATO countries from Iraq was publicly damaging to the American war effort. If the Netherlands could be convinced to send more troops to Afghanistan, the move from Iraq would look more like a transfer than a withdrawal.

However, it was public outcry against Dutch abuse of Iraqi detainees that forced The Hague to withdraw its soldiers from Iraq, and the public remained sensitive to deploying troops anywhere else.

Unlike Spain, the Dutch government could be pressured by economic interests to provide troops for Washington. Royal Dutch Shell, an oil company, wanted to exploit Iraqi oil. But the Dutch troop withdrawal from Iraq may have jeopardized Shell's standing with the Bush-Cheney team. Sending Dutch troops to Afghanistan, however, might help Shell regain favor with them.

Then came the disappearance of Natalee Holloway on Dutch Aruba.

The primary suspect in Miss Holloway's disappearance was a Dutch citizen, Joran van der Sloot. Worse was the fact that Joran's father, Paulus van der Sloot, was a Dutch judge-in-training, who appears to have used his legal training to help his son evade prosecution. The United States, whose tourists spend millions of dollars into the island economy, could have influenced local authorities to make a proper investigation, but did not. Why?

An American attempt to force an investigation of Natalee Holloway's disappearance might have embarrassed US efforts to get a Dutch troop commitment. Already angered by American conduct in Iraq, Dutch opinion might have reacted strongly against US efforts to strong-arm Aruba over Natalee Holloway. Increased anti-American sentiment may have forced Dutch legislators to vote against sending troops to Afghanistan.

Evidently, the US and the Netherlands wanted the Natalee Holloway case to go away. The US remained silent about the young woman's fate, and the Dutch allowed Aruba to sabotage the case. On 23 December 2005, Prime Minister Balkenende decided to deploy additional Dutch troops to Afghanistan; on 3 February 2006, The Hague approved his decision. The US got the Dutch troops it wanted, and Royal Dutch Shell got the Iraqi oil it wanted.

Justice for Natalee Holloway may have been a victim of the "Big Picture" in the Global War on Terror. Undeniably, Big Oil has a stake in that part of the war in Iraq, which claims to advance American values. Why is it that American values, such as blind justice, do not appear to apply for Miss Holloway's family? But this war has been governed by paradoxes: the current Administration (and probably the next one, too) tells America that in order to spread US values, torture warehouses are indispensible; an increase in American-controlled oil drives gas prices up, not down; and bringing civil liberties to strangers 8,000 miles away, necessitates abandoning justice for Americans wherever they may be: at home, abroad, or just off-shore.

Patrick Cloutier is a writer who lives in Hartford, CT. He be contacted at patrick_john_cloutier@yahoo.com.

http://tinyurl.com/39rw2q

Amigoe.com, 20 julie 2005
Van der Straten sounded for police Bonaire(Translation)

Friday is the last working day of Commissioner Jan van der Straten. The Police confirmed that he was approached by the Antillean Justice Minister David Dick (PAR) to Bonaire to work. Or he addresses this request van der Straten not say. "I go to talk to him."

Van der Straten departs next week for a vacation to Ireland. Perhaps then the Commissioner of Police at the Bonaire are going to work.

Solving the Holloway case, Van der Straten, which until Friday still leads in this investigation, probably not. "Of course I prefer the matter resolved. The whole team had already resolved the better, I do not do it alone." According to Van der Straten take Roy Tromp Zoemers policeman and the leadership of the investigation. Van der Straten remain optimistic about solving the case of missing American. "I still assume that the matter is resolved."

http://bonaire.web-log.nl/bonaire/2005/07/van_der_straten.html

Justice for Natalee Holloway
Oprah.com
Jan 10, 2008 9:34 PM
 2njsons 1 posts since
Jan 10, 2008
I'm glad to see you will have Beth Holloway and her son, Matt, on your show next week. The case needs to be heard and seen on the networks and it's finally going to be on yours. There are many who have supported the family from the outset, which will be 3 long years this May.

Justice for Natalee
 lsl1020
Jan 10, 2008
Reply 1. Re: Justice for Natalee Holloway Jan 10, 2008 10:21 PM
Thank you Oprah! Natalee Holloway's story needs to be told, and I am delighted that you are having her mother Beth and brother Matt on your show next week. I have followed the story from day one and as 2nj stated have supported Beth and Dave in their quest for answers. This is a story that every parent, and every American that plans to travel to that "happy little island" ?:| needs to know about.

I hope and pray that one day soon, there will be Justice for Natalee.

http://www.oprah.com/community/thread/13274

Regarding the discussions on Charles Croes and Digicel, notice that Satish said Deepak told him that Steve Croes worked for Digicel, he thinks. I have some posts that say Satish and Steve knew each other, will have to find them. Posters found pictures of Satish on Steve tickle site.

I have been trying to track down some of the rumors on Steve from the day he was arrested, but am not having much luck. Digicel worker,EMT, pilot,DJ and from an influential family that owns a newspaper.

From Satish’s 6/10 PV

"I was informed of my rights. I am still going to stand by the statement I made as a witness at the police station in Bubali. I do remember now that my brother had told me. Last week Friday my brother told me that the man Steve had seen us when we dropped off Natalee Holloway that night at the Holiday Inn Hotel. My brother Deepak told me that Steve had said to him that he had seen us. I myself do not know Steve. My brother thinks that Steve works at Digicel. I don't personally know Steve. I have never seen Steve. According to my brother, Steve had told him that he had dropped off people at the Holiday Inn on Monday May 30th at approximately 01.45 hours. My brother has also told me that Steve was also in Carlos & Charlies that night

. According to me Steve had told my brother that he was dropping off tourists at the Holiday Inn Hotel that night. I did not ask my brother what kind of car Steve drives and he also did not tell me that. On May 29th 2005 we arrived at Carlos & Charlies between 23.30 hours and 23.45 hours. That night at Carlos & Charlies we each drank a "Yard". I only had a "Yard" that night in Carlos & Charlies. My brother also only had one "Yard". Joran had drunk a "Yard" and a "body shot". Joran also had a shot of another drink. I do not know what kind of drink that is. I saw that the girl Natalee also drank a shot of the drink together with Joran. We that night left Carlos & Charlies at approximately 01.15.

Good Morning OE and Pita


Pita...I am looking for info on Guido's Dad...do you have any? TIA

Just how many people have you ever heard of who have committed suicide with poison? Extremely violent death, excruciating pain. Its not like drugs are hard to come by to overdose if you really want to end it. Next they will claim a beheading was a suicide.

[/b]

You're not the only one...... :cool:

Anita you are reaping what you have sown. You forced your son down this path, as he recanted in the back of the police car so plainly, a path of lies and deceit thus depriving himself of the chance for redemption and a opportunity to walk with the Lord. You reinforced that it is OK to do all of the sordid things that he did, and thus insured that he will continue doing them. Junior Sportster took your instruction as well, wanting to be the man that his dad and brother are. God help what your poor daughter must think of her importance in the world as it is plain to her that women are worthless as her male role models have shown her and spineless as you have so obviously demonstrated to her. Don't bother trying to explain this to your children because children listen to what adults do, not what they say, and your actions clearly describe your lack of morals.

Pity you, I don't, because it could have been different and can be different. Your family doesn't have to be destroyed by the cancer you have intentionally decided to not treat. You need to pray to God to grant you the strength to save your children. To be a mother who nurtures her children helping them achieve their potential, to be have happy childhoods, grow into strong adults, and to present you with happy well adjusted families and children. This is that moment for you, that pivotal moment in time, when the future generations of your family are going to be determined by your actions. The responsibility for generations to come depends squarely upon you, precisely at this moment in history. And it is so easy for you to ensure that those future days for your family are days that are blessedly happy if you remember one little sentence. You never do the wrong thing by doing the right thing. I know I am rooting for your family to have some bright days ahead, but it can only happen if you find your strength.

My great granddaddy committed suicide right on the town square in Montecello,
Arkansas...course he was 88 years old.

forgot to say...he drank poison that he had just bought at the drugstore.

I have posted this before and many of you are aware of this.
Moonshadows runs a business w/ Chris Keating in Indian Rocks Beach, FL
http://www.moonshadowsandrainforests.com/



http://www.indiebeauty.com/directory/listing.asp?by=sc&id=Florida
MoonShadows and RainForests

Owner: Christopher Keating
Member Since September 2007
Address: 501 20th Ave, Indian Rocks Beach,, FL 33785
Phone: (727) 517-1539
Fax:

MoonShadows and RainForests, Enchantingly Natural Candles, Bath and Body Products. Extraordinary Fragrance Lines! Exotic Florals, Forbidden Fruit, Designer Decadence Shades of Vanilla and Candles for Causes. Premium natural wax candles made from oils of soy, palm, and other botanicals. Matching bath and body products created from natural vegetable oils and butters all produced in the

People are much kinder and gentler to themselves these days:) I am sure it happens, but not very often. Now days we save the poison for our enenies we want to suffer:)))))))) But I am sorry about your great grandfather. Even if he was 88 and guessing about the era in which he lived, he had a long life, I know it causes a family concern, regardless of the circumstances. Monticello is a nice town with a modern university with a lot of good people living there. Not to mention excellent deer and duck hunting, and crappie, brim, bass, and catfish fishing.

private eye said:

Junior Sportster took your instruction as well, wanting to be the man that his dad and brother are. God help what your poor daughter must think of her importance in the world as it is plain to her that women are worthless as her male role models have shown her and spineless as you have so obviously demonstrated to her


Does Anita have a daughter??  :2doh:

Hey Monkeys and J4N,
If I can just chime in and say attending a travel show to be Natalee's voice is a wonderful experience. I was so surprised at the number of people who truly care about Natalee and her situation. These people were of every combination of age, gender and race. The privilege of representing Natalee and meeting Monkeys I will cherish forever in my heart.
Plus it is amazing to expirience all the hard work of both Monkeys and BFN behind the sceens.

Do we know who this is? Is it a new name?

Name: Francisco Thiel  
Date:08 June 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Juan Boezem
Description: indication of an area  

Very interesting article, *******.

I do think I need to clarify something. I don't hold Anita responsible for the actions of her son involving the "something went wrong." Joran was a man/child at the time, young, immature but too old for Anita to watch 24/7, and like all of our children he did something stupid, he made a mistake, one with tragic consequences, and as a result it would be foolish for me to judge Anita responsible for the act, or for me to say that Anita chose for her son to do whatever it is that he did. My kids certainly aren't perfect, and none of their friends are, and sometimes they make dumb mistakes. Fortunately, so far their mistakes haven't had this tragic an outcome. But as kids do, even kids who completely ignore every word their parents utter, and defy every word of parental authority they have ever heard, when there is big trouble, they run to their parents seeking the wisdom and direction of their parents on what to do as a result.

It is the response and direction that Anita chose as a plan for Joran to cope with his mistake that I hold Anita responsible for. That is what I mean when I say she chose this path for him.  I think she did not know in the beginning exactly what happened, and she was innocent and truly a loving mother defending her child.

But she has now figured out what he did, she knows what her husband did, she knows of the deceit and she knows of the cover up that her husband has directed her son to follow. She knows that her husband is sorry as far as this type of action involves, probably guilty as well, and that only she is strong enough to step up to the plate to save her son by teaching him the virtue of owning up for his mistakes, accepting his responsibility, helping ease Beth's loss, and helping her son to move on from this and become a well adjusted adult. As a mother she also knows how impressionable her other children are, and she knows that they know as well what went down at the house that night.

But I am not saying she directed Joran down the path of causing the harm, directly. Children make mistakes. Adults help them learn from them, recover, and move on. And I stand corrected, I understand there is no daughter, which is fortunate. However, there are more sportsters, which is sad. However, who knows, Anita may yet feel her maternal callings and correct this, resulting in great things for Anita's family as well as Beth's family.

Anyway, Anita, all of our children make mistakes, all of us as parents make mistakes, and I certainly don't expect you to be perfect. I'm not. But it is time to correct the mistake, to expect consideration from Beth for correcting the mistake, and to help your son deal with whatever it is that went wrong that night so that he can have a happy life. Plus it is time to stop being so cruel to Beth. It seems to me that there are a lot of people depending on you Anita, please don't let them down.

I agree. Good research!!!!!!!

Hi ldstlou...I had seen that before and for some reason thought that he was ALE describing the area..doesn't really make sense, but that was my thoughts. (He is not listed on the Dr Phil log as one of ALE doing any questioning.)

Old thread identifies him as a fisherman:

Francisco Remigio Thiel   fishermen      6/5/2005   13:55

No, I was promptly corrected. I am not sure what may me think she did!!!!!!!!!!

Is it possible to actually review the documents or can we simply access the index of the documents provided?

Well there are pictures of a pretty blonde with "the family" in New York and again at the airport in Holland when Joran first went there.  I don't know who she is.  Thought maybe you had an inside scoop.........

Some documents have been posted.  Most, have not.  The list is in response to the Phil McGraw request for disclosure by the Kalpos.  They are listing the documents, in their possession, that would coorelate with the McGraw request.  Whether they have, or will send McGraw copies, remains to be seen........

Here is the latest from Natalee's Freebirds:



PRIME MINISTER NELSON ODUBER A MAN OF HIS WORD - OR PART OF THE ARUBAN COVER-UP?


When questioned about a cover up taking place, Jorge Pesquera, then President of Aruba's AHATA replied,

"Yes...yes there was." (p. 194 Beth Holloway book Loving Natalee).


Now that the criminal case against the 3 main suspects in Natalee Holloway's disappearance has been closed by Aruban officials, perhaps it is time for Prime Minister Nelson Oduber to make good on his intentions.

On November 9 of 2005, Nelson Oduber stated that he would like an "investigation into the investigation" conducted. He reiterated this intent in late January of 2006.

We agree it is high time for such an investigation.

With the numerous questionable and downright unethical activities of law enforcement, judiciary members, and government officials - Miss Holloway's fellow U.S. citizens request the documented facts that show who played key roles in "making mistakes" in this investigation.

From the detectives involved, to the initial prosecutor handling differing suspects and witnesses in different manners, to the judges ruling inconsistently and in a biased manner - we agree with Aruba's Prime Minister, in that there is definite cause for an in-depth look into these actions.

Greta Van Susteren - April 13
Professor from the Netherlands

“The investigation doesn't strike me as an example of professionalism. The investigation from the onset was somewhat bungled.”
refugeesunleashed.net/post-33291.html&highlight=greta#33291

DIARIO Aruba
4/6/2006

ORANJESTAD(AAN): Dutch criminal law experts recently expressed big criticism about the Aruban police investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway
They call the investigation methods strange and unprofessional.

“It is incomprehensible that police, after an important tip about the location of Natalee Holloway’s body, to not go search immediately.” ~ criminal law scholar of the University of Amsterdam, Menno Dolman

“This is very strange. Normally the area is closed off immediately, to dig and search for clues, but not in Aruba”. ~ legal psychologist, Peter van Koppen

“Total madness. “This is a total error” ~ criminal law expert of the University of Leiden, Hans Nijboer

“The media is the last option for investigators, you do not give out information that only the guilty could know.” ~ criminal law scholar of the University of Amsterdam, Menno Dolman
http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2006_04_02_archive.html

Aruba’s prime minister believes that authorities made mistakes at the start of the investigation of the Natalee Holloway case. ~ Ruben Trapenberg, Aruban Government Spokesperson
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-08-22-aruba_x.htm


DIARIO Aruba
11/09/2005

The Premier also made the promise that when the Holloway investigation ends, to bring an investigation into finding out what and how things went wrong.
posted by Getagrip @ 11/10/2005 12:45:00 AM


Amigoe
Jan 23, 2006
Oduber wants the discrepancies
in the Holloway-case be investigated

ARUBA -- After the Holloway-case is closed, Prime Minister Nelson Oduber (MEP) wants a thorough investigation be conducted on the course of everything that had to do with the investigation on the disappeared American teenager, especially the begin phase. He thinks that mistakes were made especially in this phase


*Will Prime Minister stand true to his own words?

*Will he finally authorize an unbiased agency to conduct an investigation into the persons and activities associated with this case?

*Will Aruba open their dossier to a competent investigative team for all the world to see what “mistakes” were made and by whom?

Prime Minister Nelson Oduber has made numerous differing statements about his true feelings about Natalee Holloway, her family, and his country’s investigation into her disappearance.

*Will the world finally be able to see if Aruba's Prime Minister is a man of his word?

*Does he finally realize that coming clean with the truth about this investigation will be the first step in repairing Aruba’s damaged tourism numbers?


"We've been working 50 years, day and night, to build up tourism," Oduber said last week.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160064,00.html  




Natalee and her family deserve justice, and we will not let up until they have it!
Natalee’s Freebirds
http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/

Thanks Buckeye...answered my own question...but should have waited for you...lol..you are MUCH faster!!!
For some reason...when I went you know where...I know, I know...I should stay away...lol...and they had a discovery list, I thought some of it was new. I was wrong.

I agree PI. I remember when my older sister made a mistake in her youth, and my parents found out about it. They sat her down and said we will back you 100% in correcting this mistake, but if you don't go to the authorities, we will. You have to face the consequences. That had to be one of the hardest things my parents ever did because she could have faced jail time!! But they went to the authorities, and my sister had to acknowledge her part and do what it took to correct it!!!
By the way...today my sister is happily married and the mother of 6 fantastic kids and doing fine!!! lol
Parents have to teach their children to take responsibility for their actions, not cover for them!!

From Persistence:
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2008/01/x-persistence.html

Update: Fri 12-Jan 1145 hrs
The seas calmed down dramatically since Wednesday. Last night was smooth sailing and saw double the progress of the previous nights. ...more to come later.

This is a report on the investigation of the investigators
from Amigoe Spring of 2006


ORANJESTAD – An investigation report on the efficiency of the Police Corps of Aruba (KPA) regarding integrity, states that the control on work procedure is poorly; promotional transfers take place, while there is a disciplinary investigation going; and there is no correct follow up after irregularities within the corps are signaled.

Forensic Services Caribbean in Curaçao did the investigation by order of Justice-minister Rudy Croes (MEP). Amigoe learned this from documents that the paper received for perusal. The report was already given to the then chief of police Ronny Bernadina on April 3rd of this year. The investigation took place in 2005 and based on the findings, Forensic Services Caribbean advices to draw up a master plan to deal with the integrity risks. Based on conversations with some key-officials within the KPA and external partners of the corps, like the Security Service, the Public Prosecutor, and the Coastguard, they have mapped nine risks. They have also analyzed summaries of integrity rules violations within the corps. They first noticed that many rules regarding work procedures and work processes are established, but that these are not univocal and not conveniently arranged. The procedures differ per (police-, editor) district and are implemented or interpreted differently.” Besides, several regulations are not complete. Not everybody is familiar with the procedures, they are difficult of access, and several of the versions used are outdated. Several procedures are too complex and have therefore lost their powers. “They have become dead letters”, states the report. There is lack of control on the observance of the procedures in all sectors of the organization. This has to do with not having qualitatively good employees on managerial positions. Another reason is that there is lack of open culture, in which employees dare to talk to each other. In order to restrict this risk, the bureau advices to further specify the career policy and to organize trainings that would provoke a culture change within the police corps. A third risk that can cause the integrity of the corps to come into play is the lack of confidence when it comes to exchange information. Confidential information is leaked to third parties and nobody knows what to do with the information or that the information can be used against you. “This lack of confidence has consequences for the internal- and external communication”, states the report. It also forms a hindrance for working effectively and efficiently. Their advice is again a culture chance in order to create confidence.

And the funny thing is that people are understanding, appreciative of the candor, and remarkably forgiving. In addition, the punishment is not as bad as what the fear drives us to believe, and the "guilty" feel 100% better. But it is a hard step to take, for both parent and child.

I have always thought that I could probably get past what Joran did, if he just admitted what it was, and showed his remorse and sincerity by doing whateevr he could to ease Beth's pain. I am sure there was some accident involved in this, and that the boys were young and immature, and I understand how things can go seriously wrong, much more than what was intended. But accidents happen in a flash and you can't go back and correct them. However this coverup is done methodically, with sober minds, adult minds, intentionally and visibly causing Beth tremendous anguish, and they don't seem to care one iota. In fact they act like it humors them. That is why I am going to enjoy watching Anita suffer her pain and feel no guilt, because it is her choice and her choice alone. This is no longer 2 kids out playing and one does something to hurt the other, this is no children at play.

The pain Beth feels is from the "blows" adults who are stone sober are hitting her with in the broad daylight.

Oh, not only are they hitting her with stones, they are doing it maliciously and with as much psychological damage as they can muster to try and bring her down ie: the latest being committed over the holidays as though the holidays aren't tough enough for Beth and the Family to get through!!
That's ok Aruba, Beth will strike back on Oprah, and her words will reach millions of ears. And although the refugees laughed the last time I said this, I will say it again so you get a taste of Beth's retaliation. Beth's words will be heard by MILLIONS!!! and they will tell a friend and they will tell a friend...and so on and so on!!!
Can't wait to see Aruba's tourism numbers this year...can we say..TANKED!!!

From your lips (or fingers) to God's ears :lol:

Google Translated page:

 Tonight in Pauw & Witteman: Joran van der Sloot and his parents Paul and Anita and crime reporter Peter R. de Vries over de zaak Natalee Holloway De Vries on the case of Natalee Holloway

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://pauwenwitteman.vara.nl/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522%2BPauw%2B%2526%2BWitteman%2B%2522%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

Link without translation.  Is Robert still around??

http://pauwenwitteman.vara.nl/

When I followed the link it translated

I am getting  Dutch at the links.

http://pauwenwitteman.vara.nl/uitzending.php?id=274

Me, too, Buckeye...and translation through Babelfish is poor.  Maybe BTGirl's friend can translate for us.  Is this a new show being broadcast by DeVries? 

This is the translation I get:

Tonight in Peacock & Witteman:  Joran van of the Ditch and its parents Paul and Anita and crime reporter Godfather R. the Freeze over the affair Natalee Holloway

On 30 May 2005, the American girl Natalee Holloway disappeared without trace.  They fourth holiday on Aruba and was seen with Joran van of the Ditch for the most last time.  Shorten after Natalee's disappearance became clear that Joran her it recently had seen.  After an evening with Joran and the brothers Kalpoe, nothing is walk learnt more of her.  The mother of Natalee mobilized the American media that self poured massive on the affair.  The Arubaanse police suspects on that moment Joran and Deepak and Satish Kalpoe of it behind the disappearance to sit.  Also Paul van of the Ditch, the father of Joran, is picked up.  In total, the police arrests ten men in connection with the affair.  For want of proof, all come suspected, going out Joran included, on feet. 

In November 2007, Joran studies meanwhile in Arnhem, hits the police him again in the manacles.  On Aruba, new proof material would be found, according to it.  He becomes to Aruba overgebracht.  End of December comes prevent Joran free and is the suspicion against him lifted. 

Tonight Joran give and its parents Paul and Anita their last interview over the affair Holloway.  They choose for 'disclosure', either total openness of affairs. 

Also Godfather R. the Freeze slides tonight on.  He held self intensively busy with this affair.  For its Tv-program made he under others an extra long broadcast on Aruba.  On 7 deceber, when Joran on going out feet came, was De Freeze to guest with Peacock & Witteman.  He said convinced then to be by the involvement of Joran by the disappearance of Natalee.  Look at this conversation

Doesn't look like it says a whole lot:

Vanavond in peacock & Witteman: Joran of of the ditch and are parents Paul and Anita and crime report donor peter R. freezes concerning the case Natalee Holloway

On 30 May 2005 the American little girl Natalee Holloway disappeared without a trace. Them fourth holiday on Aruba and was seen for last with Joran of of the ditch. Shortly after Natalee's disappearance became clear that Joran had seen her last. After an evening step with Joran and the brothers Kalpoe nothing more of her has been learned. The mother of Natalee mobilised the American media which paid themselves massively on the matter. Of it the arubaanse police force suspects Joran and Deepak and Satish Kalpoe at that moment behind disappearance to sit. Also Paul of of the ditch, the father of Joran, are taken up. In sum the police force ten arrests people concerning the matter. For lack of proof come all suspected, Joran incluis, on free feet.

In November 2007, meanwhile the police force studies Joran him other time in the buoys in arnhem, beats. On Aruba new proof material have been found, thus it Public Prosecution Service. He is transmitted to Aruba. By the end of December comes Joran rather and the suspicion against him has been raised.

Vanavond Joran give and are parents Paul and Anita their last interview concerning the matter Holloway. They choose for ' disclosure ' oftewel total openness of matter.

Also peter R. freezes schuift vanavond. He occupied himself intensively with this matter. For its tv-programma he made among other things an extra long retransmission on Aruba. On 7 deceber, then Joran on free feet came, were freeze at guest at peacock & Witteman. He said have persuaded then of the involvement of Joran at disappearance of Natalee.

http://pauwenwitteman.vara.nl/uitzending.php?id=274

Oprah Winfrey lo dedica programa na Holloway

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/3450/6/#jc_allComments

Hopi ta esnan cu a pensa cu Oprah Winfrey no lo hasi un programa di sensacion entorno e caso di e desaparicion di Natalee Holloway. Durante e ultimo añanan esaki no a pasa tampoco. Sinembargo awor cu e caso a wordo sera Diaranson awor 16 di Januari Oprah Winfrey lo tin den su programa mama di Natalee Holloway y e ruman. Oprah tin un sintonia di alrededor di 23 miyon na merca y ta wordo mira den mas cu 112 pais.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tranny  :roll:

much is esnan cu owing to think cu oprah winfrey not will make one declaration of policy of sensacion entorno the caso of the desaparicion of natalee holloway. during the ultimo añanan this not owing to happen niether. sinembargo now cu the caso owing to wordo close diaranson now 16 of january oprah winfrey will have in his declaration of policy mother of natalee holloway y the brother. oprah have one sintonia of alrededor of 23 miyon at merca y is wordo see in more cu 112 country. come across

There is a place to post your comments at that link.  That SOB and his parents are always saying they want the truth to be out there, but the interviewers aren't aware of enough details to catch them at the lies they tell instead of the truth.  If I had the time, I would download all the hard work from the monkeys and summarize it for them to read before the interview.  You notice, this is the last they will speak of Natalee Holloway.  Well, OVER OUR DEAD BODIES!!  You will never forget Natalee  Holloway!!

PI ... I agree.

I contend there was a plan that involved wrongdoing against the person of Natalee Holloway but ... I believe that her ultimate death was not intended.  In other words ... the real crime is the coverup which was and still is being abetted by adults who are distancing Joran from the consequences of his actions.

To some extend my heart goes out to Joran Van der Sloot.  I believe that this young man is a product of his upbringing.  His parents had a God-given responsibility to teach him that in a civilized society there are legal and moral boundaries that have been established for his well being and the well being of others.  His parents also did not teach him that there are consquences that have to be faced for making personal choices to disregard those established boundaries.

Unless there is "genuine" repentence ... these untaught and unlearned lessons of life will have far reaching consequences ... consequences that reach beyond the Natalee Holloway case ... consequences which imply that "other Natalees" are at risk ... consequences which dictate that Joran will be eventually held accountable ... held accountable when he stands alone before the Judge of all judges ... to receive an ultimate ruling.  There will be no high paid attorneys ... no Daddy with connections ... no Mommy as a character witness ...

That being said ... I do  believe that an even higher judgement awaits Paulus and Anita Van der sloot.  John Kelly words rang true when he implied ... it was a parent's enabling that put all the event into motion in regards to the the Natalee Holloway case.

Janet

++++++++++++++

John Kelly
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
April 11, 2006

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, if you look at the surveillance video footage, it appears that he’s the one sitting directly next to her and tries to engage her in conversation a couple of times. And it’s sort of ironic that it’s his father who brought his underage son to a casino and left him there after he left, with access to his line of credit, to put this unfortunate chain of events in process.

You know, if Joran had never been there, not been allowed in there, because he’s underage and wasn’t accompanied by his father, the whole rest of the night wouldn’t have happened.

COSBY: You know, and, John, also, why would that be a significant—why is that in conflict to something else we’ve heard maybe from Paulus before?

KELLY: Well, he’s just claiming that, you know, he’s kept an eye on his son, you know, he’s kept him on a short leash, and, you know, his son is very well-behaved. And it turns out that he’s, you know, got him at casinos. If you’re under 18, you’re not legally even allowed in casinos, so his son was breaking the law with him enabling it.


Jossy Mansur
DANA PRETZER
July 23, 2007

Dana: One thing that makes my listeners scratch their heads so to speak and wonder, myself included and we'll talk about it again, is the fact of the underage drinking and gambling that had been going on admittedly by young van der Sloot.  Was there ever any discussion or has there ever been any discussion at least of filing some charges as far as that goes?

Jossy:  No, there hasn't been any of that. The authorities have just (inaudible) it aside, they haven't paid any attention to it then and they're not paying any attention to it now and over the past 26 months.  I haven't seen anything in the direction of trying to make some kind of statement that this is not (inaudiable) at least make some sort of a statement that this is not (inaubible) because it is a known fact that as an underage he wasn't supposed to be in the casino, much less in the company of his father. He was there, there are video tapes to prove that and still the authorities haven't done anything with regard to that specific case.

Joran targeted her.

If it was just an accident - no need to cover it up.
NO FORGIVENESS UNTIL THEY ARE IN PRISON FOR THEIR CRIMES AGAINST AN AMERICAN TOURIST - PERIOD AND
ALL THOSE INVOLVED IN THE OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE!

ldstlou ... my husband and I were put in a similar situation with our eldest son when he was in his late teens.  We discovered that he had submitted a false claim to an insurance company in regards to wheels that were allegedly stolen from his precious Datsun 510.

We reported our findings to his insurance adjuster while he was at school.  If thoughts could kill ... Tamikosmom would not be posting on the Natalee Holloway case today.

Why was his Dad and I suspicious?  This had been drooling for three months over fancy wheels advertised in a catalog ... fancy wheels he knew darn well he could not afford.  We suspected that he anticipated an insurance settlement would go a long ways towards the purchase of those wheels.  We were right.   :wink:

Janet

And with the beauty of hindsight, or at the time by simply having faith, what seemed to get your son in trouble actually had a positive ending. If you hadn't of corrected it yourselves, he might have gotten away with it but kept doing it until he got in worse trouble, as an adult, with greater consequences. But it is heartbreaking at the time a parent has to act and you wonder did I do the right thing, will he ever forgive us etc. I admire you.

Hey *******, I email this man Patrick and asked if he would attend the Boston show and he said yes he would go....Can you email me at justicefornatalee@gmail.com.

Kermit ... I believe Natalee's death was unintended.  I suspect that the plan was to leave a drugged/passed out Natalee at the beach after the "pimps" were through using her.  Natalee would wake up ... make her own way back to the hotel and ... then catch the plan for home.

I suspect that Natalee had to "disappear" because of the incriminating DNA ... the result of wrongdoing ... that would be found on her person.

Keep in mind that Joran conveyed to Greta that this had happened twenty times before and nothing happened.

Janet

++++++++++++


Jossy Mansur
'Scarborough Country'
August 26, 2005

DANIELS:  It definitely smells that way.  You know, if you take the prosecution‘s statement at its face, we are talking on a whole new level, the charges here.  We are talking about drugs.  We are talking about rape and we are talking about rape of many different people.  There are four guys now in custody, four best friends.  What does that tell you?
 
MANSUR:  Well, what it tells me is that, really, these four guys are friends.  They belong to the same group, these party boys that go out and prey on young, unsuspected girls or other kinds of girls also that are out to have a good time, not suspecting what they‘re in for with these predators around.

And they are—they not only appear in photographs together, but I understand that Freddy lives very near to the Joran house.  So, there is a bond between them.  There is a group that they call themselves the pimps, in which all of these participate.

I think there was an accidental death in the commission of a crime, granted, and I think he needs to pay the consequences. I think what he did had horrible consequences and was wrong, on many levels. I think he absolutely has some consequences to face.

But for me, the actions of his parents directing him to cover up rather than tell the truth, is a more hideous crime. Remember, Joran broke and told the truth on June 10th,2005 and if he had been left alone or supported by his parents, a lot of hurt could have been spared, Beth could have been healing, and even Joran would have been much better off and would have a better chance of leading a healthy life. Him breaking down and admitting what happened to Natalee would have brought him a lot of compassion and understanding from Beth's family,  and from the legal system, if they had one.

His parents took a horrible situation and act, and made it much much worse, and made Joran's role much worse and his personal future beyond redemption.

But don't think I don't hold him responsible for his actions or that I don't think his actions were horrible, I simply think his parent's actions are worse and that they have done him a huge wrong in their advice

DANA PRETZER SHOW TONIGHT:

The Dana Pretzer Show - Listen LIVE TONIGHT at 9PM Eastern - Guests Include
Dana Shafman, Cathy Wilson and Fred Rosen

Join dana this week as he welcomes:

    * Dana Shafman discusses the new idea of Taser Parties
    * Cathy Wilson, mother of missing person Matthew Wilson
    * Fred Rosen crime historian and author.

i'm standing shoulder to shoulder with you on this, kermit.
dennisintn

PI ... what was heartbreaking ... my husband and I were worried sick regarding the direction in life that our son was taking.

However ... it was never a question of whether or not our son would forgive us.  It was him that did wrong ... not us.  We were secure in the action that we took ... an action we believed was right.

The situation did not resolve itself overnight but ... fast forward twenty years ... this guy ... who is now a proud Father ... comprehends perfectly what motivated his own Father to pick up the phone and call that adjuster ... the motivation was LOVE.

Janet

And that is the view at the end of the path I wish Anita could see.

I also wish she had your moral compass and parental insight. You both were great parents, ooops, are:)))))))

Both of you are the type of people everyone would like to have stand with them during a crisis. Unwavering, firm, and committed. I know Beth appreciates you.

HERE IS SOME CLASSIC SPIN FROM REUBEN "RUBBERLEGS" TRAPPENBURG, JULY 1.2005. HIGHLIGHTS IN RED:

from drudge:

Prosecutor: 3 Charged With Aruba Murder

By PETER PRENGAMAN
The Associated Press
Friday, July 1, 2005; 5:17 PM

ORANJESTAD, Aruba -- Three young men detained in the disappearance of an Alabama teenager have been charged with murder since their arrest more than three weeks ago, Aruba's chief prosecutor told The Associated Press on Friday.

The charges were not announced at the time to protect the feelings of the family of 18-year-old Natalee Holloway, said Attorney General Karin Janssen.

"At the time, we didn't want to upset the (Holloway) family talking about murder while they searched," Janssen said.

Janssen, who has said several times in the past three weeks that no one was charged in the case, said they also kept the information quiet in order not to compromise their investigation. Authorities have said they have no physical evidence suggesting Holloway is dead.

Janssen said 17-year-old Joran van der Sloot, 17, and two Surinamese brothers who are his friends have been charged since their arrest _ 10 days after Holloway disappeared on May 30.

Also Friday, Aruba's government defended its handling of the investigation, saying many of the criticisms arose from misunderstandings of the Dutch legal system used on the Caribbean island.

Police have been criticized for letting more than a week go by without detaining the three young men last seen with Holloway and for waiting 16 days after she went missing before searching van der Sloot's home.

Ruben Trapenberg, spokesman for Prime Minister Nelson Oduber, said the government has put 21 detectives on the case.

Trapenberg also mentioned the 70 Dutch Marines on the island who helped in initial searches and were called back Thursday to comb the island again.

"They do not bungle cases," Trapenberg told The Associated Press. "Aruban police and prosecutors are professional forces that have been successful."

Prosecutors have an 89 percent conviction rate on the Dutch Caribbean island, he said. Violent crime is rare in the tourist haven.

Asked why two of three suspects were transported together, apparently giving them the opportunity to compare or arrange their stories, Trapenberg said that was done to secretly monitor what they might tell each other.

Late Thursday, CNN captured images of van der Sloot, and Deepak Kalpoe handcuffed together, being put in a car to leave San Nicolas prison. It wasn't clear where they were being taken.

The Kalpoe brothers and van der Sloot were the last ones seen with Holloway the night she disappeared. Police questioned the three that same day but did not detain them until June 9. Two other people, including van der Sloot's father, Paul, an island judicial official, were detained and released.


"One of the techniques is that after hearing separate stories and getting nowhere, prosecutors will have suspects confront each other," said Trapenberg. "The U.S. system might be different, but this technique has worked in the past here."

Trapenberg also said that police initially did not have any cause to hold the young men: "If they had arrested them immediately, they would never have collected evidence."

Natalee's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, has repeatedly criticized investigators, saying that if she did not get answers soon she would believe they were protecting someone _ probably Joran van der Sloot because of his father's position.

"Prosecutors couldn't even attempt a cover-up because they know better than anyone that this case is under a microscope," Trapenberg said.

© 2005 The Associated Press

Well, despite knowing that the world had them under a microscope, they did execute a coverup while telling us all to go get "intercoursed," and claiming ooops another mistake by our little bungling keystone cops and prosecutors!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Deception is an art on Aruba.  The police and authorities practice it frequently and have for a long time.  They are very good at lying and deceiving and if anyone questions them, they blame their own ineptness.  In reality, they are far from inept.

Interesting article in dutch on Human Trafficking. Mentions the Loverboys and the growing problem of forced prostitution and human trafficking in the Netherlands Kingdon. Also mentions the 3 ministers who are involved in tackling this problem. The three ministers of Justice - Ernst Hirsch Ballin for Netherlands, David Dick of the West Indies and Rudy Croes of Aruba Rudy Croes being involved is like hiring OJ Simpson to lead the nation against spousal abuse  :2doh:

http://www.google.com/translate_t (Use the google translator)
http://www.ecpat.nl/ariadne/loader.php/ecpat/Actualiteiten/Krantenknipsels/Handelminderjarigen/

Last time Jossy talked about Natalee's case in his newspaper he mentioned he would disclose more and name names about the Aruban Minister that owned a brothel (Prostitute business) in Venezuela. WHat did this have to do with Natalee and why did he mention it? Why has he said nothing since and cancelled Dana's show?

.... far from it.

PI ... like all parents we directed our kids on the path that we deemed was beneficial for them and ... society as a whole.  However ... looking back there are some areas of their upbringing we would have instructed or done thing differently if we had to do it over again.  However ... now that the kids are grown ... they realize the mistakes we made we derived from a foundation of love and ... they are now in a position to make positive changes in their lives.

Janet

False tips in the search for Jose Tromp
(Awemainta.com)
(http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5093/tromply3.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Dayhiker ... considering Janssen implied there was no physical evidence in the initial detentions ... I wonder what foundation Janssen based her suspicions on.
 
Janet

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Joran van der Sloot:  Suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder

Deepak Kalpoe:   Suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder.

Satish Kalpoe:  Suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder.


Arlene Ellis-Schipper
NANCY GRACE
July 20, 2005
 
ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, ARUBAN ATTORNEY: There is no grand jury in Aruba. It`s a different system. You are arrested based on suspicion, on strong suspicion.
 

Noraina Pietersz - Defence Attorney
Associated Press
June 9, 2005

Under Aruban law, only serious suspicion from investigators — not solid evidence — is needed for a judge to rule that suspects can be held, Pietersz said.

Hear! Hear!

ribbit

I don't understand Dutch, but DeVries doesn't sound happy.  I hope someone is listening that knows what's being said.

http://player.omroep.nl/?aflID=6010887&start=0:01:06

Unintentional means you did everything you could to save her.

So I disagree that Joran did not mean to murder Natalee. It is premeditated when you intentionally target someone to
render them unconscious in order to rape them! Dompig said it was a crime in Aruba and that Joran and Klapoes own confessions should get them 8 years! Murder would be 15 I think!

But the JUDGE let them go.

The comments here seem interesting...I'm not a translation whiz, though:

http://pauwenwitteman.vara.nl/uitzending.php?id=274

The real perversion of the case is that I am not sure that it isn't Joran covering up his Dad's actions!!!

******* - can you screenshot that photo of Joran and PAPA?

PAPA has called in to the show!

I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What the haystacks!

She arrested and charged the Security Guards with murder!
Based upon the statements and NO EVIDENCE!

Then she doesn't get the right search warrarnt and lets Corky the Judge Bob Witt tell her he is reducing the search warrarent. WHO IS KARIN JANSEEN WORKING FOR?

BINGO!

Article from 2006(Translation)

Netherlands helps Holloway case

ORANJESTAD

Netherlands sends shortly agents at his own expense to the disappearance of Natalee Holloway to investigate. The Korps National Police Services in the Netherlands (KLPD) is at the request of Justice Minister Rudy Croes (MEP), Aruba helping with the case of American teenager. Croes has also asked Interpol the file from end to end.

Over a year ago Holloway disappeared during a school trip. All that time has worked on the case, without a trace of the girl was found. A week ago, Minister Croes a letter sent to The Hague with a request for help. He hopes that politieassistentie from Netherlands there a quicker solution to the unsolved mystery.

"Aruba lives along with the parents and close relatives, despite the negative campaign against the island is conducted," Croes writes in the letter.

The request was made to Minister Johan Remkes (VVD) of the Interior and Kingdom Relations for the minister, Atzo Nicolai (VVD). The KLPD will following the call on the entire leadership of the investigation.

Politiebeambten of the Dutch corps are also specially on the issue. Netherlands will also pay the costs that are involved with the deployment and residence of these agents on Aruba.

Furthermore, they are provided with a separate location from where they can work on the case. The police may carry a weapon and use it, and get opsporingsbevoegdheid. Also, they are provided with the relevant information from the file-Holloway and gives them access to all information systems.

The letter promises that the Dutch minister Croes agents receive the full cooperation of the (tracking) authorities and the administration. The letter shows that Croes also has made a formal request to Interpol to consider the case on the roughness from end to end.

"At the request of the Attorney-General seeks Interpol has still not accepted by the FBI (American federal police, ed.) released data in the table above matter," the minister wrote in the letter.

The Public Attorney's Office (OM) confirmed to be aware of the request, but stressed that it did not originate with Attorney General Theresa Croes-Pedra Fernandes, but from the Minister of Justice itself. He would Interpol in July have asked for help when he visited the headquarters of the international police organisation in the French city of Lyon.

The OM is also aware of the cooperation between the police forces from the Netherlands and Aruba and politieniveau reports that it is regulated and there is no request from the PPS has been done. "The criminal investigation into the Holloway case is still open. Dutch If the police can offer assistance, they are certainly welcome," says adviser Mariaine Croes.

http://www.suriname.nu/0niba/niba109a.html

Hi Kermit..Sure I'll do it now.

Thanks ******* for posting this little nugget which once again demonstrates the jerk chain they are all involved in.

Oprah has a forum where they allow posts about the shows.  There are 2 threads now regarding the upcomming show with Beth and Matt.  Heli and others at RU are starting to post there.  One of Heli's posts was already removed. 

Here are the links to the two threads in case anyone wants to leave a message.  I believe you have to register to post.  The poster with the nickname jhellshot is Heli from RU.  She has now reposted:

http://www.oprah.com/community/thread/13348?tstart=0

http://www.oprah.com/community/thread/13274?tstart=0

PI ... Natalee's death may not have been intentional but ... it was a result of wrongdoing by Joran and others and ... justice demands that there must be accountability.

Janet

ROFLMAO! Heli is spouting her 1st Amendment rights were violated and then tries to justify her post with a rant about the Hootie poster! Gee whilikers! Next thing ya know a caller from INDIA is going to call in! LOL

And your cousins

And your cousins mother's brother's father Dompig

And your father's friend Arlene and her cousin Guido

And there ya have it!

Regarding the Dutch show that the Sloots were just on.  This is from a poster at BFN:

Posted by JOS at BFN:





ze

This is from Pauw & Witteman 7-12-07 (Not tonights live show)
http://player.omroep.nl/?aflID=6010887&start=0:01:06

(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8568/joranandpapavn9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Thank you Klaas.  Thank you JOS.

Janet

LIKE FATHER, LIKE SON---YUCK :smt096 :smt076

He's got his fathers mouth and Frankenstein's forehead.  This photo creeps me out.

Joran's official declarations establish the May 29, 2005 chain of events and ... the chain of events imply that Paulus left the casino part way through the poker tournament ... leaving Joran at the poker table.  Joran then went to the black jack table following the poker tournament and ... Natalee Holloway enter the scenario a short time later.

If the casino video captures Paulus conversing with Natalee at the black jack table ... the implication is that Joran is covering for his Father.  He lied regarding in his declaration in regards to what time Paulus left the casino.  Lies are created to cover the truth.  Why did Joran deem it necessary in his declaration to cover the truth regarding a "Paulus/Natalee connection".

Janet

+++++++++++++

Joran van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 9, 2005

I was done sooner than my father and I went and hung around in the casino. When it was half time of the game my father wanted to go home to go and babysit my ten year old brother. At my father's request I sat in for him and played "Texas Hold'm poker. I am not sure as to when half time was but I think it was between 19.00 and 20.00 hours. I kept on gambling until I lost too. This was according to me until 21.30 to 22.00 hours. I went to walk around in the casino and after that went to the "Blackjack" table to play blackjack. While I was sitting at the table the girl "Natalee" that is missing now to the blackjack table together with her friends.


Paulus van der Sloot
Witness Statement
June 18, 2005

On May 29th 2005, at approximately 16.00 hours, I went with Joran to the “Free Carribean Stud Tournament” in the Holiday Inn. During the break, at approximately 18.30 hours, I went back home. My youngest son Sebastian who was playing at a friends house was due to be dropped off at home around that time. Joran, with my permission, took over my seat because he had been eliminated earlier. We had agreed that he would call me after the tournament, in order for me to come and pick him up. He did indeed call me and at approximately 23.00 hour I picked him up near the Mc Donalds in Palm Beach with my red Suzuki. We drove home and I went to bed.


Katherine (Madison) Whatley
FBI Statement
July 12, 2005

After swimming at the hotel on Sunday, WHATLEY and other classmates, including HOLLOWAY, ate dinner at a restaurant next to the hotel. After dinner they went to the casino at the hotel. A few classmates were gambling at a card table along with an "older man" and YURON VAN DER SLOOT. (Whatley 302)

There are more comments....

We know Paulus was sleeping in the main house when Natalee dissapeared and Anita was away. Why is that?

jhelishot
3 posts since
Jan 11, 2008

Reply 1. Re: Beth Holloway and Newsmaker Follow-Ups Jan 11, 2008 4:28 PM

A very strange thing indeed happened to my comments posted on the "Justice for Natalee" thread here on January 10, 2008. I'll duplicate it here, in the interest of free speech and my voice being every bit as valid as any others. Miss Oprah, you are a proponent of the 1st Amendment aren't you? My post contained no libel, defamation or inappropriate language, therefore, I am repeating it below and look forward to having my 1st Amendment rights honoured by asking you to refrain from deleting it this time. Thanks in advance.

Ms Holloway reports she knew immediately, within seconds of receiving "the call" that Natalee had been kidnapped in Aruba yet the first poster she distributed in Aruba read like this:

"Please call me Hootie, I miss you and love you. Mom is here on Aruba and I really want to talk to you. Please call me on my local cell phone XXX XXX" Big Hootie.

What mother learning that her daughter has missed her flight home escalates the scenario immediately to kidnap rather than the logical thought of accident, injury or illness. Ms Holloway's first poster appears to make it clear that she had insight into Natalee having absconded of her own free will. Perhaps Ms Holloway could be asked on January 16 to explain the inconsistency of that poster with her insistence to the media that Natalee had been kidnapped ... actually that Natalee had been drugged, kidnapped, gangraped, killed, put into a fish trap and dumped in the ocean.

As of today's date there continues to be no evidence of a crime committed against Natalee and certainly no evidence that she's dead. Of note, the FBI's website describes Natalee as "SEEKING INFORMATION", not KIDNAPPED, not MISSING, not ENDANGERED ...

Oprah, this is more than a valid question and in the interest of presenting a balanced interview, it would be great if you could address this issue with Ms Holloway.

By gisella Bauschke on 12-01-2008 at 00:34
Ladies and gentlemen,
So far, I am not doing this matter, but heck, Peter R. De Vries there is always impressive.
What is the father annoying, not one time, he runs one of your questions answered, but began an argument that nothing to do with your question. And if someone in the judiciary? Impressive son, his reasoning, his gestures, his opinion, de Vries mans is not enough excuse - if necessary - to offer.
After my opinion, there is something wrong with this good family

Wazigheid asset!
By Martijn van Meekeren on 12-01-2008 at 00:29
If anything has become clear tonight is that nothing is clear. I would not really know what to think of Joran and his parents. His lies are remarkable but the statement by the panic which lies have been told that he does have something plausibels! I know just (still) does not and all those psychologists of the cold ground, the truth is not closer!
Peter is wrong!
By Anton on 12-01-2008 at 00:26
I think the family van der sloot very correct about. I have a lot of respect for Joran and the appropriate way in which he answered the questions. For me he is 100% innocent.
Furthermore, I think that far too much of Peter Tunnel suffers. He continues to insist on the lies, while Joran in the whole does not deny. Furthermore Peters supports arguments only on the theory of unanswered questions, while Joran utemeljil and answered them all.
And that for such a young person ... clever!
PET
By corry on 12-01-2008 at 00:18
Is it possible that we have some youth respect and politeness to teach adults during a conversation? Can it even without jijen and jouen? Joran Saturday not to Peter R. De Vries in the classroom?
And calls can also be conducted without wearing a cap?
I have difficulty with this boy, especially for the way in which he talked about the girl. His easy way of lying.
Let us hope that this matter can be resolved again
Solution
By Ziener on 12-01-2008 at 00:16
They called Holl away. So it is weggerend only question is where.
Peter R de Vries is man enough
By wies on 12-01-2008 at 00:16
Find that Joran smakeloos insensitive and greedy.
Then he really seemed contradictory statements against him.
I can understand that the mother of Nataly H. Vastbijt themselves in the case, her daughter has vanished.
That boy would I not trust meter.

How dare Anita and Paulus say "there are indications she is not dead."

What are those indications?  Show us.
Mos said the first of December that they believe she is dead.

If they have indications that she is not for God's sake tell her family.

Dayhiker ... I do believe that those words imply that Paulus van der Sloot was involved to some extent in the events encompassing of the morning when Natalee went missing.

Janet

no, no, no, please, not the "caller from india", i almost died laughing at that fiasco.  and the worst part of that is, they haven't gotten any better at their games.  it's downright insulting to everyone's intelligence that they think anything would believe that stuff they put out.
dennisintn

Thank you, *******...my translation attempts were not as clear.

Yep two nuts.

that's as bad as taco. saying they had proof that jvds couldn't have be responsible for natalee's disappearance, and then letting his client sit for l5 days in solitary invoking his right to silence.  they had the undivided attention of mos and klpd and a.l.e. to share all this "evidence" taco. was bragging about having. 
dennisintn

Lazlo at RU;

Lazlo  PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:58 pm         

Atmosphere of the confrontation:


De Vries: You are a self admitted liar.

Joran and Anita: Joran was never in therapy for lying.

Interviewer: But you said that even in your book!

Paulus: All we wanted to do is help and not obstruct the investigation.

De Vries: Is that is why you advised Joran to not talk? How does that help the investigation?

Joran: I kept my mouth shut because I do not trust the Aruban jurdical system.

Paulus: I adviced him to keep his mouth closed.

De Vries: How can you explain that being a judge and if you just said all you ever wanted was to help the ongoing investigation, how does it help if your son does not talk, does not give any explanation?

Paulus: Everything was already answered.

De Vries: Is that so? I wonder!

Anita: Every time Joran pointed out a centimeter further on the beach they said that was yet another version of the story.

De Vries: A centimer? Joran lied kilometers! In my opnion ppl decide to keep their mouths shut when they are afraid they do not recall their lies.

De Vries: Why did you lie Joran?

Joran: I was afraid and the family was at my house.

De Vries: If you are afraid the more reason to tell the truth, why not the girl wanted to stay on the beach herself right? You had to go, why lie, why these long made up stories all 3 of you told, if nothing happened nothing to lie about?

Anita: These boys were asked incredible questions, the interrogators had their analyses ready before interrogation.

De Vries: Yes, what do you think, he is last seen with the girl and tells all these lies, of course they had a scenario ready!

And so on

I see they posted my comment  :wink:

But most of it got cut off..:( They must have a limit of words per comment.

The key to solving this crime is the obvious cover up. Paul Van Der Sloot told people,is on tape and witnesses heard he had two contacts with natalee and picked her and joran up at  four AM. That was clearly understood by the Supreme Court of Aruba.

Since when do murder and kidnapping suspects get immunity from having there houses searched. Well Obvious Cover up and even last week Judge Wit said Commissioner Dompig Obstructed Justice and wanted the Van Der Sloots to have privacy from having there house searched. He said the prosecution never asked to search more than just Jorans small apartment. I could write a book about the obvious cover up with Paul Van Der sloots close friends and the Aruban Govt. Why are they allowed to change statements,obstruct juctice and sabotage a murder investigation? Why has the Cover up never been investigated?

Well I said flies were going to flock to his open fly in the photo and I was wrong and apologize. Maggots seem to have escaped from that fly and look at the size of that maggot:) It even has teeth!!!!!!!!!!

So is Wit saying he didn't have to restrict the search because the prosecutor and Dompig never requested the search of the entire property?

Greta, this is an interview. Take notes

I was a little confused at what Wit said about himself. He said he had to make a quick decision when he changed the warrant I guess to just Jorans Apt and the 2 cars. He clearly said Dompig obstructed justice,wanted the Van Der Sloots to have there privacy and the OM never asked to search anything more ever again.

I think Peter De Vries Reads and Comments there..So he will see my post and maybee comment. We know he said it was changed and the Investigators were shocked when they found out all that was restricted and off limits to search.

I am so glad Beth and Matt will be on Oprah next week.  She has great strength and I do admire her.  Every time she is on TV she reminds Aruba SHE is Natalee's voice.  I hope Matt will be Natalee's voice also--Just so Aruba doesn't think that they can just ride this out until Beth is no longer here.  They need to understand IT will never be over. There will always be someone to speak for Natalee today, tomorrow and in the long, distance future.

This cocky pimp (Joran) trying to make Peter apologize to him.  Who does he think he is?   Guess by not getting his apology he will now sue Peter.  And THEY believe this is over with now with this latest interview?  OH have we got a surprise for them!

The way I understood Wit...he said that he was new at the job and had
to make a quick decision.  I thought that was a lame excuse.
Dompig blames Wit....Wit blames Dompig.

PI ... it appears that Bob Witt is asserting that he only complied with the authorized warrant which limited the search to only Joran room.  Contrary to Ramm ... Witt contends that it would have been illegal for him to do otherwise.

In October, 2005 … Gerold Dompig does state that the authorized warrant limited the search to Joran’s room which backs up Bob Witt‘s words.

However … in November, 2006 …  Peter Derives and Beth Twitty publicly revealed that the authorized warrant granted a full search of the VDS’ premises and … Bob Witt reduced the scope of that search while the warrant was being excuted.

As Natalee’s mother and Peter Derives were on a quest for truth regarding what happened that fateful morning and ... are very specific regarding the contents of the authorized warrant … I can only assume that their words were spoken from a foundation of knowledge

Janet

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Translation - posted by Lazlo at RU
December 29, 2007

Bob Wit defends himself in Bon Dia

<snipped>

Mr Wit, had to decide in an instant about the search of where Joran's father lived, and made the decision to allow the search of the apartment of Joran van der Sloot and also in the two cars of the family.

At no moment they had (asked?) to search more then that. A Head Commisar cannot do otherwise, because the petition has to be substantial. Another word is by having allowed to search at other places that were not covered by the petition of the OM all evidence eventually obtained would be illegal. This is very significant since dealing with the case ourselves we had to work in a correct manner, Mr Wit says.

+++++++++++++++

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/10/10/beth-twitty-credibility-1-nay-sayers-0/

Gerold Dompig
October 10, 2005

Reporter: And the police only searched his apartment, deputy chief?

Dompig: That is correct. The fact is that we as a law enforcement agency always try to get the maximum. Meaning that we want to search as much places as possible. We were not granted by the judge a search warrant for the complete house, we only received the warrant for the apartment.

+++++++++++++++

Peter De Vries
On the Record w/ Greta
November 27, 2006

VAN SUSTEREN: What about the search of the van der Sloot property? Was that ever done, and was, you know--including, sort of, the cabana area where Joran lives?

DE VRIES: Well, the search in the home address of the family van der Sloot was very strange because the search warrant was made by head prosecutor Karin Janssen, and contained an allowance to search the whole address, “Montanja nineteen.” So, the gardens, the buildings--everything. But, when the police was on the spot, another high-ranking employee of the Justice office--it was Mr. Bob Wit--reduced the search warrant to only the room of Joran--and that was very strange.

+++++++++++++++

Beth Twitty
MARTHA MCCALLUM
November 28, 2006

TWITTY: Well I think they will always have to look at there were two personnel involved from the Aruban Justice Department and that is why we do not have any evidence and that is what Joran’s attorney will have to be reminded of. It is because of Bob Witt and Ben King stopped the search warrants. It was made to initially search the entire area of Mon. 19 - the garden, the buildings and everything but on the spot a high ranking employee of the Justice Office, Bob Witt, reduced the search warrant to only the room of Joran so that’s why we do not have any evidence because of involvement of the obstruction from the Aruban Justice Department personnel.

++++++++++++++

Give 'em hell, *******!

I am  :wink: Rammstein is posting now over there..lol

Hans Mos was right about a few things..Like Natalee dying of a violent death and Paul Van Der SLoot being involved. But why could he not answer one question from Natalee's Family? Instead he told them that the American Media and Holloway Family hurt the Investigation..Are you kidding me? Just how deep does this cover up go?

That was after Oduber came back from India.  He seemed confident he had
a case until then.  When Oduber came home Mos' whole attitude changed.
Oduber made the statement that he did not know the 3 were to be rearrested
and the whole case should be shut down so as not to hurt tourism any further.

that just flies in the face of dompig's saying that police always ask for the maximum to search but the judge didn't allow it.  too bad we'll never be able to get them in the same room together to ask questions like that.  i guess somebody could ask to see the search warrant itself and whether it was amended or not. maybe jqk could get things like that when he files for all the records in the case.
dennisintn

I think the Van Der Sloots are becoming a family without a country as well as a concious or morals!

   
By Rammstein on 12-01-2008 at 01:33
Hey *******,
Do yourself a favour and go back to your cage at the bangge monkeys. Try not the people on the wrong track.

---------------------------------------------
Ahh Mr Spin Rammstein..Everything I say is 100% fact and you know it..Now go back to your hideout and defend Paul Van Der Sloot,Ben King and Aruban Torism like you normally do. I quote real info and you are the one that steers people from the truth.
Since when do Murder and Kidnapping suspects get immunity from having there houses searched?Mr De Vries?

   
Verdraaien of facts
By Rammstein on 12-01-2008 at 01:43
Hello ******* doe greetings to those other animals leugenachtige especially Klaas and Red course. Speculations is different from facts, but that is of course very difficult for you. Translate them!

That is exactly why I do not believe even half of what Rammstein has
told about Dutch Law.

Morals have never played in this from the get-go.  You are correct they do appear to be without a country.  It is clear now why Paulus never became a judge.  He plays hard-ball with the justice system and one day it will back fire on him big time.  He of all people should have advised his son to tell the truth.  He of all people should have had the greatest respect for the Judicial system of Aruba.  But he didn't, all he could offer this family was to tell his son to SHUT UP.  What a loser.

If Ramm is such an ordinary Dutch person how does he know all there is to know about the legal system?  The way it changes according to the situation how could he know it inside and out?  I always believed he was a Dutch legal person feeding us information and we were suppose to suck in all in.  Actually, I always thought he is Paulus.

Just mention Ben King's crimes that he did to Mr.Matthews,Corrupt Dutch Judges,Aruban Tourism stats or any involvement of Paul Van Der Sloot and he will come running. He's related to someone,probably Ben King or the Van Der Sloots. He most certainlly is not your avg Dutch citizen with no ties to this case.

Sure---Joran's cocky and brazen with Mommy and Daddy sitting nearby.

But it's Joran who isn't man enough. He wasn't man enough to take Natalee safely back to her hotel.

And he still isn't man enough to admit to his involvement in Natalee's disappearance and take his punishment like a man.

Instead he hides behind Mommy and Daddy and lets everyone else suffer--including Natalee's family and friends and the everyday citizens of Aruba. Joran doesn't care as long as HE doesn't have to go to prison.

That PR photo of pjvds look like they are in prisoners' outfits!

The reason I call it a PR photo is that we never saw any "family-type" photos of jvds until after Sept 2005 when Pauley and other's hooked up with the van der sluts. These PR photos are way different from the tickle site photos.

 :lol:

Ramm has been a judical apologist from way back.  I do believe that he has been placed on the boards by the "powers that be" in Aruba to defend rulings in the Natalee Holloway case.  There was a time that Joran and Paulus were defended also but ... I took notice when he was posting on the SM forum that he did back down to some extend.

Janet

Just got this Google Alert:

http://www.pr-inside.com:80/former-suspect-s-mother-wants-probe-into-r382954.htm

Former suspect's mother wants probe into Natalee Holloway investigation
 
© AP
2008-01-12 01:37:01 -


THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) - The mother of a former suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway in Aruba said Friday in a television interview she hopes there will be an investigation into the investigation that failed to find a trace of the U.S. teenager since she vanished in 2005.

«I would like the investigation
to continue,» said Anita van der Sloot, mother of Joran van der Sloot, one of three youths extensively interrogated by police and prosecutors.
«I would also like to see an investigation into the investigation,» she added.
Joran, Anita and Paul van der Sloot appeared on the Dutch late-night talk show Pauw & Witteman in what was billed as the family's last television interview about the case.
Anita van der Sloot said her family, as well as Holloway's family, needed answers.
«I think it's also very important that for them _ for everybody, but particularly for them _ there has to be clarity,» she said. «Then we can move on. As long as that doesn't that happen, there will be questions, there will be fingers pointing at Joran.
Holloway went missing May 30, 2005, hours before she was to return home to the U.S. She was on the final night of her school graduation trip to the island.
Van der Sloot and two other suspects, brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, were seen leaving a bar with Holloway on the night of her disappearance.
They were questioned early in the investigation and again late last year before being released when they refused to answer any questions. All three deny involvement in Holloway's disappearance.

Prosecutors now say they cannot prove a crime was committed without a body.
Extensive searches of the island turned up no trace of Holloway, who was 18 at the time of her disappearance, but the Aruban prosecutors have said they believe she is dead.
Authorities in Aruba say the case against the three could be reopened if additional evidence surfaces. But if they were to go to trial now with virtually no hope of guilty verdicts, they would lose the opportunity to try them later if strong evidence emerges.
Joran van der Sloot talked little during the show and made no new revelations about the case. When asked if he believed Holloway is still alive, he said he doubted it.
«If a person has been missing for three years, you would be a very bad person if you see everything that has gone on and don't come forward with a sign that you are alive,» he said. «And if she is still alive, I think she is being held somewhere against her will.

One more thing about that photo and the other PR photos. 

It is almost as if they are thinking about us here at SM and anyone who supports Natalee and her family, and adjust their expression and pose to act like-we-are-doing-great.

I bet they think of us and Natalee every second of the day and night.

He know's defending Joran he will lose all credibility but Paul Van Der Sloot is another story.

:smt031 :cheers: :smt038 :smt041
It's the only way they will ever solve this case unless the persistence finds her.MO 

I know this will not be a popular opinion here but it is my opinion.

I very much appreciate Ramms interpretations as well as his translations. I do not think he is related whatsoever to the Van der Sloots.

If he were he would defend them and he does not. He also does not defend Aruba and the way this case was treated. he does defend his home country just as most of us defend ours.

I see folks here who try to keep this forum for Justice for Natalee being shot down or criticized and it bothers me. I have never seen any post by Ramm where he made disparaging remarks about Natalee or her family. I was under the impression that is why we are all here is seeking Justice for Nat.

If you have never read Rammsteins site ,please take a look. I must admit his language is a little rough. Again just my opinion.

http://rammsteinsopinions.blogspot.com/

now, all of a sudden, she's putting her family in the same position as natalee's family?  horse apples, what an absolute crock of it.  i didn't think i could feel any more contempt for a group of people than i all ready did.  but now she's dropped to a level even beneath contempt.
dennisintn

OK..I am going to PUKE!!!!!! This is so absolutely offensive!!!

I was so suspicious of Ramm..but I have had a chance to chat a little with him via pm's I think he is on the up and up and though he drives us nuts sometimes..lol..I think his heart now is in the right place.

He is an arrogant little sexually confused punk, who apparently needs his ass kicked, and kicked, and kicked.

Parenting is so hard...well GOOD parenting at least. Great job!!!
I always tell my little guy being brave does not mean you don't get scared, being brave means you are scared but you do the right thing despite your fear.

If Mr. Rammstein is such a lovely person, why would he be ugly
to ******* on a Dutch Blog?  ******* was only stating facts.

 :lol: I'd love to be the one to do it! I hate all the mileage that Anita gets out of spinning their story. They've gotten far enough away from the incident to be able to point to the undeniably botched and orchestrated cover-up and use it, again, to their advantage. In the meantime, Natalee Holloway is dead and her family is devastated, with no closure, and only questions. Justice is as elusive as the tooth fairy. BOYCOTT ARUBA!

Amen!!!

ok...this is actually kind of funny...if this is the sloots "answer" to Beth doing the Oprah show...I think its safe to say that one didn't work!!! :roll:

castrated too

Thank you *******. Nice job.

That gives me chills. It makes me wonder if I'm not looking at the last faces Natalee saw.

Oh, CBB, you are so right.  What a terrible thought.  It makes that photo
even more frightening.