Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Clean cage.........be good in it!  ::MonkeyWink::

Nite all! Have a wonderful night and Sleep Well when you turn in!

Good Nite! Glad to see you here after Your chirping experience last night...LOL... ::MonkeyHaHa::

I won't to bring back this very good post by MrsKub, one of our newest posters. I feel it is worthy of being reposted.  My apologies to MrsKub for stealing this back.

February 6, 2008
 
Dutch Newspaper Reports Aruba's Tourism Caused Economic Loss In The Tens of Millions
 
Summary:Boycott of Aruba hurts Aruba big time.
 
    Today, Dutch News reported that Aruba has lost tens of millions of dollars due to the Natalee Holloway inspired boycott of Aruba.

    The report states:
"The disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway and the ensuing police investigation has cost the former Dutch colony of Aruba tens of millions of dollars in lost income from American tourists.

    "The comment was made by the island's prime minister Nelson Oduber on the Dutch tv current affairs show Nova on Tuesday evening. Aruba's economy depends for 70% on US tourists, he said."

    Boycott Watch has previously reported that Aruba has been trying to cover up their tourism losses and we have little confidence in their current projections of growth. At the moment, the family vacationers are avoiding Aruba for the same reason Spring Breakers are going there - Aruba looks the other way at underage drinking, rampant and easy access to drugs and the lack of any real safety and police enforcement.

    Aruba is popular for students on Spring Break because they can get away with things they can't in the US, and not just the alcohol and drugs - because Aruba is not part of the US, arrests made in Aruba will never appear on the students criminal record in the US.

    In a February 4, 2008, interview (See Below) with Neil Cavuto on Your World on the Fox News Channel, Neil Cavuto asked Boycott Watch President Fred Taub if he thinks Americans should vacation elsewhere, and Fred Taub simply replied "Yes." Taub did not make any recommendations of where to go in the interview, but notes that "this is a big world and there are lots of places to vacation to."

    Taub is formerly an Emergency Medical Technician who volunteered at hundreds of special events and has been in many life-saving situations. Taub has also assisted in teaching new EMT's as well as proctored the skills exams of EMT candidates. Based on his experience, he has a theory about the Holloway case based on the Peter R. De Vries undercover investigation.

DISCLAIMER: The following paragraph is strictly a theory and is graphic in nature.
    Taub stated: "In the video, Van der Sloot stated Natalee was drunk. Van der Sloot indicated Natalee probably passed out drunk, but to me, the convulsions indicate drugs were involved. I used to be an EMT and although I have not dealt with this exact situation, I have had the training and medics talk to each other about cases. So, assuming that drugs were involved, I suspect Natalee was alive and unconscious after the convulsions, but she was clearly in bad shape medically. I think Van der Sloot raped Natalee which is why he wanted to make her body vanish - there was probably bruising from the rape, and bruising can only happen with a person who has blood circulating, meaning Natalee was alive. So, I theorize the trauma of rape mixed with drugs and being drunk raised her heartbeat, all contributing to a seizure. Again, that's just my theory, but what I saw in the Peter R. De Vries undercover investigation leads me to believe that Natalee was most probably alive at the time of she was dumped into the ocean. Van der Sloot must have felt he needed to hide Natalee's body for some reason, and to be that means her body was the crime scene, meaning she was raped."

    In the mean time, the IMF has warned Aruba to diversify their economy because they are vulnerable to "outside forces" which can only mean the boycott inspired by the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. One look at blogs such as Justice for Natalee indicates the boycott is going strong. The "tens of millions of dollars" loss reported by Dutch News proves the boycott was working. Considering all the recent news, especially the news of the effect of the boycott on Aruba, the boycott against Aruba will continue indefinitely.
 

A post from Annna and Hotping that I wanted to bring forward.

Quote from: Anna on February 09, 2008, 11:59:04 PM
OK, just got out of shower where I remembered something that has bugged me for a bit.  I have no proof and that's why I have not said anything about this before but just something to keep in the back of ones mind while considering the validity of what we have been told.

Most of the major agents of misinformation as far as the U.S. is concerned are expats or former residents of this country.  Julia Renfro, scubajap/Rolalie Klein, Angela, Mark Purcell and others.

I don't think their effort is on behalf of Joran and certainly not someone like Lorenzo but more likely one of their own they are trying to protect.

There is a person rumored to work at a bar near Carlos and Charlies who is also rumored to have possibly sold Ecstasy and been a user himself.  IF, big IF, all that is true, it is also rumored and for various reasons likely that he had a boat docked at the Marriott.  Could this be the person Deepak stopped by to see after leaving C&C instead of Pitbull as we sometimes think?  Would be up and about and in that location at that time of night, etc.

I don't know if Joran knows this person or not but would be a logical choice as the person the American expats are all so frantic to protect instead of any of the Dutch or Arubans.

So who in the area was likely up and about, sold Ecstasy no matter what his mother said about that and had a boat right there at the Marriott and would be a person all the expats from America would be concerned about protecting as one of their own and has someone who has exhibited irrational animosity toward Beth and even Natalee throughout all this?

To me this person sounds much more like a likely candidate than any Daury or others.

Just something to think about as I have no proof of anything but can't get this nagging feeling out of the back of my mind concerning the most likely candidate other than Paulus for involvement in any disposal of remains if that even happened.

Now to bed for real this time!

.
Anna You are talking in code.... LOL...but I think I know who You are talking about....This person was never questioned..right? 

CRAZYBABYBORG
What a beautiful prayer.  Thank you so very much! 

Good Morning...bringing Anna's post from the other thread forward. Only a vague memory for me, but makes a lot of sense concerning the American expats......Anna.....Hotping

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Anna on Today at 01:59:04 AM
OK, just got out of shower where I remembered something that has bugged me for a bit.  I have no proof and that's why I have not said anything about this before but just something to keep in the back of ones mind while considering the validity of what we have been told.

Most of the major agents of misinformation as far as the U.S. is concerned are expats or former residents of this country.  Julia Renfro, scubajap/Rolalie Klein, Angela, Mark Purcell and others.

I don't think their effort is on behalf of Joran and certainly not someone like Lorenzo but more likely one of their own they are trying to protect.

There is a person rumored to work at a bar near Carlos and Charlies who is also rumored to have possibly sold Ecstasy and been a user himself.  IF, big IF, all that is true, it is also rumored and for various reasons likely that he had a boat docked at the Marriott.  Could this be the person Deepak stopped by to see after leaving C&C instead of Pitbull as we sometimes think?  Would be up and about and in that location at that time of night, etc.

I don't know if Joran knows this person or not but would be a logical choice as the person the American expats are all so frantic to protect instead of any of the Dutch or Arubans.

So who in the area was likely up and about, sold Ecstasy no matter what his mother said about that and had a boat right there at the Marriott and would be a person all the expats from America would be concerned about protecting as one of their own and has someone who has exhibited irrational animosity toward Beth and even Natalee throughout all this?

To me this person sounds much more like a likely candidate than any Daury or others.

Just something to think about as I have no proof of anything but can't get this nagging feeling out of the back of my mind concerning the most likely candidate other than Paulus for involvement in any disposal of remains if that even happened.

Now to bed for real this time!

.
quote hotping
Anna You are talking in code.... LOL...but I think I know who You are talking about....This person was never questioned..right?   
 
 
 

Melody said Joran knows the area around the Marriott very well.  In fact, she lives in that area and says he knows it so well that he knows a short-cut home from her house.  I do believe this would be the area that someone so involved in that area could find solace in when seeking out a partner in crime.

Tyler...I know I need coffee, but did we just bring the same post forward....LOL

yes, we did! ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Oh, Anna, all along I thought it was just pontificating to impress Robin but I believe you have found the origins of the problem and no doubt the genesis of the Orweillien gasbaggery itself.

Good call, Tyler.  I agree as usual.  Good morning. 

Peaches, it is my honor to be in your optimistic presence anyday.  You and Beth are giants among women.

Guess we both thought it was important....
Which bar was that, do you remember? Bahai? Choose-A-Name?

Didn't Santos live by the Marriott as well? I always wondered why both boys and the sister were questioned.

You're sweet to say that, Tyler. 

I have to say that observing Beth and her faith and determination over the past three years has been a huge inspiration.  In light of losing your daughter, cancer seems like such a nuisance.  Watching and listening to Beth has changed the way I deal with my daughter who is 17 and her friends.  Beth is a hero to this mother. 

     Good morning monks!   I just jumped out of bed with a big question.

       Why does Patrick never ask Joran what he thinks caused the "so called"  seizure and death of Natalee.  He goes into coma stuff...but never the cause!!!
       Peter, himself on one tape says he does not believe that a young person just dies of having too much to drink.  I am assuming that Peter was discussing the tapes with Patrick and viewing them during this "sting" .....so why did Peter NOT tell Patrick to ask Joran the cause of her death.  He could've said...  "hey man, so why after fooling around on the beach did this girl die, did you give her any drugs"?

      My other question.......Joran had done this before, I believe in his apartment....why didn't he take Natalee there????  We know he did not, because it was searched...that is, it was the ONLY area on the Sloot property ALLOWED to be searched.... the fact that Paulus had his big wig friend "cop" and /or Judge there, to prevent the police from searching the rest of the property is more than just a little suspicious to me.

     
   

On an optimistic note, I am counting on the Persistence.  They are dedicated, wonderful men and like the Blues Brothers, they're on a mission from God.

I think if they are able to find Natalee, they will also find those damn shoes and probably Sanders' phone! 

God bless them in their pursuit.  They are heroes.

  God bless Tim Miller and the Persistance for searching for Natalee's remains, hopefully Natalee will be found and her family can bring her home to rest in peace.  However, I am doubtful that there will be any forensic proof left after almost three years in warm, salt water.

auntiem, I don't think we really know what Patrick asked.  There's a lot of videotape we haven't seen.  If you watched US TV, we got the well-trimmed version that they wanted us to see.  From watching the You-Tubes that are in Dutch, there is more shown.  I think there is plenty we haven't heard on the videotapes.  Obviously the networks couldn't show it all.  Kinda like the Skeeters video.  We saw a heavily editted version for TV.  Bummer.

Water is not warm at 700-1000 feet.  It's cold.  Part of the reason for a wetsuit is to preserve your body heat when you're in deep water.  Once you get down past where the sun doesn't shine, it's chilly.  I'm just thinking.....

  I believe you're correct on the US getting an edited  version...which leads me to another question WHY???  Why are we not getting the tape in it's entirety, or at least containing all the facts.
    To edit out any part admitting to drugging Natalee makes no sense!!

      I'm sorry, I haven't  been here that long,  and this makes no sense to me, (esp when I, too, need coffee) Who was "pontificating to impress Robin (Holloway??)???

Right... in the last 50 pages, it was stated that the Kalpoes both say they dropped JVDS and NH off at the beach and left them. These are the 2 collaborating witness statements. BUT!
on 5/31/05, Satish K says:
On your question if Joran and the girl had gotten out of the car at the Fisherman’s Huts and walked by the sea;
I answer you no.  Joran and the girl never got out of Deepak’s car. He also says she fell out of the car at her hotel and that a dark guard approached her etc etc all of which was disproved. So clearly he's a liar.

and
Deepak K stated on the same day:

On your question if Joran and the girl had stepped from my car at the Fisherman’s Huts and walked by the sea;
I will answer you no.  and stated that she got out the HI and fell, and that JVDS helped her stand, she pushed away and a dark guard with walkie talkie came to her, all of which has been disproved. So he's a liar.

Question: Why are they credible witnesses to dropping the two off at the beach? 

Sarcasm on..... I think I need to move to Aruba where I can alternate between lies and say I am lying and that's the truth (WTF?), get away with lying and misbehaving and general obnoxiousness and live on an island paradise and drug up and lay in the sun and drink umbrella drinks and thumb my nose at tourists and demand that American keep the dollars rolling in. Anybody want to join me?
Sarcasm off....
.....question:

All the physical evidence, the belt, cloth, single shoe, bones, phone, etc.... where are they all now? Aruba or the Netherlands. Have they all been explained away as not relevant? The belt sure looks like the one JVDS had in his hand.


I do apologize if these are old questions but I am rather new to this group. Thanks for indulging me!
OH! and Good Morning!

PS what is the "Visibility Team"?

Peaches - I agree with you, first Beth is a heroine and the epitome of a mother who will relentlessly turn over every rock on the planet to find her child, and I also suspect that there is more damning evidence on those tapes we haven't seen yet.

Private Eye - you and I truly do agree about Rudy Croes, his fingers are so deep into the illegal pies on Aruba he could never have afforded for this case to be solved. I also do not think the dutch including the queen mother herself, ever truly just look the other way, I think they too financially benefit behind the scenes. It might be time for that monarchy to have some vivid examination, I don't think it will happen in the queen's lifetime but it may for her heirs. As for your remark about Hurrican Betico and the goat's ass, I wish you could have seen me nearly falling out of my chair in laughter when I read that at midnight last night.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Tyler - I'd like to feel Mos is trying and perhaps he is, but I think the mindset of criminals before victims is so ingrained into the dutch culture that part of our struggle throughout, has been due to how foreign that is to each of us and how hard for us to digest and be cognizant of. I think Mos' job is damage control, I think he was only sent when the stuck financial pig of Aruba continued to bleed copiously. I don't think his mandate was to ever solve the case, but I do think he's smart enough to not publicly work against De Vries now. This was the ripple/kink they didn't expect, that De Vries would beat them at their own game with a videotape broadcast to the world. To those who post they wish De Vries had saved the tape to protect it for prosecution purposes, trust me, it would have gone into that drawer with all the other key evidence that keeps disappearing here. He HAD to broadcast it, it was the only hope of driving some measure of accountability by utilizing the forces external to Aruba and even Holland, to come to bear on this.

I think De Vries' very existence and his success is evidence that not all of the dutch agree with their justice system, or support it. The fact that man is still alive is proof of that, he's smart and has had to be, or he would have been six feet under long ago. We do owe him a big debt for he's done more to support all the work done here, than anyone with the exception of our Hurricane Betico and Red and SM. We need to remember Tom too, Klaas and so many others who made such a commitment to this site.

Jossy is surely a mixed bag and I don't wish to diminish what he's done, I just think we are wise to continue to question agendas in this case. When pieces of a puzzle don't fit we can't ignore that, we exercise caution.

I will have to be away in the arctic cold for a few days and won't have my personal PC in tow to be checking in, but I'll try to call our San and get an update when I can. I also hope everyone continues to be the precious support structure for this case, and that each of your realizes you have played a part in hopefully changing this world for the better. Change is hard, it always is, it's like pushing a heavy boulder uphill. But you have made a difference, a huge difference and hopefully that will eventually cascade across the world in so many good results.

As always, I stand with the girl and with Hurricane Betico.

Hi teacat.....the visibility team...ran by GVC fathers. If you google VCB you should find it...it appears the site hasn't been updated forever and their house was for sale as of mid-December...not sure where they are now.

Same guy in charge of all the security tapes for hotels etc and also hires security guards....Caps please put him on the list...

teacat, don't forget the ripped part of Natalee's top, that they tried to pawn off as a "fishing net"????  The duct tape with the blonde hair.....oh, I forgot,that is the way surfers hold their hair back...ouch!!!!

   So, itis common knowledge that ABC paid a small fortune to Peter deVriess, for a "heavily edited" version of his "Joran tape" ?????  Why doesn't somebody copy, dub with English, and hit on another channel??  Copyrights????

DeVries has an article on his site regarding the two days of editing.  The Dutch did not see 20 hrs. either.  Chris Cuomo was in Holland during this time (I believe).

Hi None

I believe Mos was brought in as a strong PR guy.  His associate Dom had a history of commentaries.  The last fake push may have been for show before closing the case.  I would like to believe in his sincerity but I go with Janet...JQK didn't have much good to say after the face to face.  Mos can work the broadcast audience.  I'm just not sure why JQK believes that Karen J had her heart in it and was more committed.   :smt102

In Reality, I don't know enough background.

Gotcha...thanks for bringing me up to speed. I just googled and read the SM post on April 21 2006 concerning GVC and Visibility Team info. So why would a kid, picked up on suspicion of foul play mention something like this in his statement:

On Monday, May 30, 2005, around 01:15, we walked with our guest to Deepak’s car. I with my brother in the front of his car. Joran sat with the white girl in the back seat. The girl spoke with Deepak and not with me. My brother drove twice around with his car and I saw that near Dunkin Donuts a group of the Visibility Team stood.

Does this strike anyone else as odd?  I keep thinking to myself that this is all within 24 hours of her disappearance, all before the 3 players and G-D knows who else might be involved had a chance to REALLY work up an elaborate story that clouded the truth and distorted the facts. Why would the youngest and supposedly most naive guy present mention seeing a group of security agents? Would YOU recognize or even take notice of such a thing UNLESS you were up to No GOOD?!

I still come back to the first few hours as being crucial for discovering what truly happened.

BTW, dontcha just LOVE how he says we walked with "our guest"? <hurl!>

Part of a Dutch article was posted by Back Tulip on RU (with the link).  It is interesting:

Bomvol was de zaal in het gebouw van de Utrechtse Universiteitsbibliotheek, want daar behandelde prof. dr. Willem Wagenaar, emeritus hoogleraar in de rechtspsychologie, de vraag : ’Heeft Joran eigenlijk wel een echte bekentenis gedaan?’

[...]

Waarom dus legt iemand een valse bekentenis af? Hier onderscheidt de professor drie groepen. Ten eerste de groep van ’zotten’. „Die lezen over een zaak iets in de krant en gaan dan bekennen.” Na de ontvoering en moord op Gerrit-Jan Heijn meldden zich tien daders.

De tweede groep bestaat uit mensen die de echte dader willen beschermen. Een vader die opkomt voor een dochter. Of een crimineel die een andere crimineel beschermt.

De derde groep bekent ’onder druk’, in een politieverhoor. Er zijn er zelfs die er dan zelf in gaan geloven. „Die zijn helemaal slecht af.”


Bomvol was the hall in the building of the Utrechtse universities library, for there treated professor. Dr.  Has Willem Wagenaar, emeritus professor in the right psychology, the question:' Joran done actual well a real confession?' 

[..] 

Why does thus someone take off a false confession?  Here the professor distinguishes three groups.  Firstly the group of' fools'. "That read over an affair something in the paper and then will confess."  After the abduction and murder of Gerrit-Jan Heijn, ten perpetrators reported. 

The second group consists of men that the real perpetrators want to protect.  A father that come up for a daughter.  Or a criminal that someone else criminal protects. 

The third group confesses' under busily', in a police interrogation.  There are will believe there even that in it then self. "That be totally badly finished." 


http://www.trouw.nl/deverdieping/dossiers/article913249.ece/Was_het_een_bekentenis

Auntiem -- I think they are referring to Mip$hit

I find it strange that Patrick didn't ask that question either.

Joran took Natalee to the apartment.  Even the ALE mentioned something about them not being on the beach.  I believe Natalee's DNA was found in Joran's apartment but we will never get the right answer from Aruba.  Look what they did with all the evidence.  KJ hand delivered evidence to Holland and we never heard a word about it anymore.

I think Patrick asked enough questions for Joran to hang himself in public opinion but not get him arrested.

School is still out in regards to Patrick with me.  I know a lot of people feel he is a hero for doing this for the family in trying to get the truth but I just feel there is something up with him.  This is just my opinion.

Where is this from?  Is this the statement where they turn to avoid the Visibility Team or the police?

IIRC, the Visibility Team includes members of ALE.

There are apx. 20 hours taped. Some of which has nothing to do with the case, just Patrick and Joran talking about other stuff. What would you suggest? A mini-series on TV of the whole 20 hours? I think not.

     <snipped>  During Nancy Grace's interview with Beth(Feb.8) I believe they both mentioned that a more complete version was viewed in Holland and that it was more shocking than what we saw.  I don't understand why the "complete" version wasn't shown here.  Chris Cuomo doen't speak Dutch and while it might be interesting to view Joran in a car smoking and talking......there is no way to know what he is saying.

Someone on another blog stated that Aruba won ‘the war’.  Did they also win the battle?

What are the traditional costs of war?  IIRC, the victors are left with a large bill.  It costs time and money to wage war.  What is the return to Aruba for expending those resources? 

What were they trying to accomplish during this war?

Who has reaped monetary rewards?   What are the rewards of victory?  Where is the celebration?  When will Aruba reward their heroes?

Where is the victory monument at the airport to welcome visitors?

Not sure how many people caught it but the same night Peter was on with Chris Cuomo, I caught Glenn Beck program.

Mickey Sherman and another international attorney were on there and they were asking why would anyone vacation in Aruba? 

The host (substituting for Beck) said if they don't convict Joran after this video, Aruba can board up the hotels and motels and drift off to Bermuda.

I found it under Important Documents....

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=d3b1ecd0f8d996ee40dfe39286a28f3c&topic=330.0

I watched the Dutch version.  It was much more entailed.  I think some of the language Joran used might not be greeted with a smile by our FCC.  Those nasty old rules, you know.

Buckeye I agree.  There was a reason why Mos was brought in this case and that was his experience with the media.  Mos never had any good intentions and that last push that he did was a disaster.

I believe the reason Kelly liked KJ better was because she gave him more information.  Let's not forget it was KJ who charged Paulus with Premeditated Murder and Guido with Heavy Battery.  How would she know this unless she had the evidence.  In the beginning she listened to the Chief of Police who was Paulus' best friend and arrested the two security guards.  Was she playing along then and going with what she was told and taking Paulus' best friends word that those guards had something to do with Natalee's disappearance.  Did she later find out that they in fact were not involved and she released them.  I believe she started to work the case and when Paulus was brought in on charges of premeditated murder the higher ups lowered the boom on her authority and said you do what we tell you to do and you will be rewarded appropriately (meaning get in line with the rest).  We have Marianne Croes to thank for letting that little tid bid slip about the charges against Paulus.  Because after that she was never see again.  That's what they get for putting a young inexperienced person in front of our media.

So now what did Aruba do they hired Mos who is a media expert.

What does Beth have after saying good-bye to her daughter at the airport?  Did she ever imagine that she would never see her daughter alive after she said good-bye?

Robert H. Jackson, in an opening statement once said – “The wrongs which we seek to condemn and punish have been so calculated, so malignant, and so devastating, that civilization cannot tolerate their being ignored, because it cannot survive their being repeated.”

Will anyone ever condemn and punish those that were last known to be with Natalee Holloway? 

Look at the father...

Look at the father's close professional friends= a good old' boy's club that seems to like drugged young women, right?  Well, hypothetically speaking...right?

Look at the casino video of Nat, Joran and ...ahem...Paulus...

See how Nat seems repulsed by Paulus and actually moves away from him?

consider all the little Freudian slips here and there, including the "Your own father"... and the recent Daury cloak...

look at the way judges make a ruling to detain, catch a plane back to their own island and upon arriving fax back a release...

look at how search warrants are modified by judges on premises...

look at how prosecutors get sent on vacations and upon their return suddenly have turned "to the dark side"...

This entire case ill go down in history...corruption and evil at their very worst...sinfully true...

this is why they are losing the PR war now...

the heat is going to get turned up and the dominoes will fall

bank on it!!!!

What would be really educational would be to get a true transcript of the entirety of 20 hours tapings.....and then have it translated verbatim.  Can you see us now, pouring over it line by line...... I can. :smt024

               <snipped> No, I don't want to see a miniseries......I want Joran to confess to his crime!!!!   He does not jeapordize himself on what I saw on 20/20.  To what did he admit?  Having sex with Natalee, who he says ....."she wanted it, she really wanted it.."  that's not RAPE. Suddenly, when he was going to ask her to perform another sexual act, he realized she wasn't breathing, he panicked (sp)  and called a friend for help. He is admitting to NOTHING  IMO.  Poor guy was gonna cry......give me a break.....what American jury would find this kid guilty, if it ever got to court????

      JMO.....this is not a confession of rape and murder.  It is a confession of an egocentric sociopath who has no remorse for what he did.....but it is so carefully worded, that there is no admition of what he really is guilty.  Drugged, kidnapped raped........where in that tape does he admit to these......nowhere........to me this confession, is NOTHING!!!!  deVriess had better come up with the......"rest of the story"!!!   JMHO

How many people say goodbye to loved ones at train stations?  How many spend a lifetime looking for any shred of evidence that tells them what happened?  How many die never knowing?

How many people never see loved ones after they are taken away by the police?

Who stops the shovel from covering up the evidence of mass executions?  Who cares that someone in the pit may still be alive?  Does anyone call for assistance?  Dial 911?  Or, do they keep their shovels moving, continue filling in the hole?  Following orders?  Taking direction from their superiors?

How hard is it to dig a hole on Aruba? 

San

Exactly, any prosecutor could have been sent across the pond.  Why this one?  Isn't Lugo really the head one?

Auntiem

I don't believe that Peter DeVries is holding back the smoking gun.  I wish Patrick would have been more probing but he really isn't a trained interrogator. It is what it is.....which is a whole lot more than we had before a lay person got involved.  I think we've all wanted a full confession, from day one. I believe there was one at one point.

Consensual sex has been used as an excuse before.  My bold for emphasis -





http://www.rebeccamiddleton.org/

Why does this sh*t always happen to me?  How many times?  Do you remember?

How many people have a gold mine dropped into their laps?  How many reap millions and millions for the lies from their mouths?

How many would choose to live obscure lives and hope that people would forget?  How many go on TV and present themselves in an arrogant manner?

He says he wasn't drunk and says that she was but "knew what she was doing".  I guess then it becomes a question is someone can cnsent that is under the influence.  I don't know why they haven't gone for any lesser charges.  Maybe the punishment is so light, even if convicted, it would amount to time served.  From previous articles, I don't think the Dutch are very harsh with any sexual perpetrators.

read more here -
http://www.bermudasun.bm/main.asp?SectionID=24&SubSectionID=270&ArticleID=36534

[/color]
           All he admits to on the deVriess tape is being part of disposing of a dead body....at least he thought she was dead..until Patrick injects that she could have been in  a coma..(how about unconscious/passed out??)  I believe that the penalty for the above mentioned, admitted to, crime, in Aruba, is 6 mos. And, yes, probably would be considered time served.

Right Buckeye, when Taco informed Joran he would be charged with Rape for having sex with an unconscious person, suddenly Natalee was not drunk.

Using that statement - one could deduce - something bad happened.

If the Dutch let him off this time - no one should have any doubt what's going on here.

He can't keep changing previous statements to fit in the new circumstances.

So, in a sense, the Authorities have decided based on his revised previous statements that there was not enough info. Now, the hidden camera of Godfather Peter Freeze has captured a stunning version of one portion of the event. The disposal - which he - Joran - has intimate knowledge.

Intimate knowledge of disposal = participant in the crime.

What he admitted to is conspiring to have a girl that has not been pronounced dead, which is a legal act accomplished by a protocol established by law, that he willingly admits could be alive, that he wanted her disposed of either way, be taken miles off the coast into the ocean to be dumped into so that she will never be found. Based upon the fact that she was not legally pronounced dead and Joran claiming he didn't know that she was dead, indeed claiming she easily could have been alive, the law would have to treat this as a murder case.

If the body could be recovered, if an autopsy could be performed, then the charge could be reduced if the findings proved that she was dead before she was drowned.

1) Premeditated murder- He thought, he developed a plan- he called a friend-he accomplished the act

2) Obstruction of justice

3) He attempted to frame 2 security guards-

4) Perjury as he was a witness to number 3

Paulus should be immediately disbarred for obstruction of justice, purjury, framing the 2 guards.

We now have a case where a crime has been committed against an American abroad where the perp has admitted doing the deed and the host government has declined to prosecute the case. There are laws that allow the US to bring this type of perp to the US to prosecute, especially if the host country allows it.


The trouble is, and surely by now it is getting obvious, that the Dutch locals in Aruba are black mailing Rudy and HE CANNOT PROSECUTE JORAN, PERIOD, unless he is willing to go to jail himself, lose his position in Aruba, etc. It is not a possibility that Joran be prosecuted unless Rudy is brought down first, for crimes unrelated to Natalee. Once Rudy comes down, then the house of cards crumble. The dirty Dutch are exposed, the drug lords are exposed, and the OM's are exposed. The amount of money the drug lords launder is so immense that there is no telling who and what all will be exposed if Rudy is exposed for prosecuting Joran.

Why pray tell is Holland's government up in arms about the situation and our President still cannot even publicly acknowledging that what is happening is unacceptable and morally reprehensible? Just what does the government of Aruba have to do to a US citizen before it is his place to say, NO More?

Aruba will no longer object if we step in, Rudy is screaming for a solution.

In the tape, Joran does say:

Joran: I see also, she's drunk, Patrick, really drunk, But I thought, I'll just take the girl for a little while and f*** her.

Now, I believe that is intent, with someone not up to consenting.

The reason for taking down a formal statement is to get a person on the record and compare that info to what is gathered and known. To see if the person is telling the truth. If the statements do not jive, one can deduce that the person is concealing knowledge and deserves further scrutiny.

In this case, Joran and Paulus are concealing intimate knowledge. Only info the perps would know.

Natalee's case has its own summary page at ad.nl
Many articles, although of course in Dutch, can be seen here w/ reader comments.
http://www.ad.nl/holloway/

The easy crime is to prosecute the 3 boys for purjury in connection with the 2 innocent men. They were not suspects to that charge, they were witnesses according to them. That won't preclude them being charged to greater crimes either.

And what's with Jorg's statement that the Dutch do not have perjury?  Is there no incentive or fear of punishment if one does not tell the truth?  I can see the right to remain silent but is there really a right to lie??  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Checkmate.

The Dutch re-arrest Joran tomorrow morning. Extradite him to Aruba.

The onus is on Aruba, not the Dutch.

Force Aruba to act.

Throw it all on Aruba - where it belongs.

This is a campaign year, and I think we have been pressuring the wrong governments. It is time the media take these questions to Bush, and the candidates. We have an absolute and legitimate right to know and it is absurd that Bush has not been publicly questioned about this case. If him responding is such a dman big deal, if this is such an awkward question to force him to address, then we can assume that some how the US is dirty in Aruba as well.

And Aruba won't because Rudy can't.

An island with increasing crime and increasing high end tourist properties -




http://www.bermudasun.bm/main.asp?SectionID=4&SubSectionID=135&ArticleID=36456&TM=45537.06

I wonder if someone in Aruba will be writing similar words in ten years?

Here is another -



http://www.bermudasun.bm/main.asp?SectionID=24&SubSectionID=270&ArticleID=36555&TM=59572.54

In the U.S. there is often a complaint that people move to the suburbs to avoid fixing problems in the inner-cities.  Where are the suburbs if you live on an island?

Then we have them right where we want them. And the boycott was justified and deserved. It would all be validated PI.

PI, the difference this time is that 13 million watched 20/20. 8 million watched SBS6.

This isn't the super secret info Mos squawked about last time and then did nothing. Everyone knows what this entails.

People are now informed like never before.

Thanks Nut.  The site is great. I will not read all day, I will not read all day....

True, except the real goal is to prosecute the guilty. I have never bet before that someone is going to get killed, but when this actually becomes checked, the crime folks in Aruba are simply going to kill Joran.

Troubling questions remain -

What is the worst thing that could have happened if anyone had dialed 911 to get help for Natalee?

Did Joran make a confession early on?  Did authorities avoid looking to the water for remains that first week in June?  Why focus on the land? 

Does Joran have a right to confess and be held accountable for his actions the night Natalee Holloway disappeared?

Confession, responsibility, punishment, and forgiveness seem very basic.  Has Joran been given these opportunities?

Is it possible that no authority on Aruba would accept a viable confession from Joran?

Would anyone be allowed to take responsibility for what happened to Natalee?  Will anyone be punished?

What happened to forgiveness?

I know I am in the minority, but Mos is for real.

Emotions Run High, Aruba Is Angry At Van Der Sloot

February 7th 2008, Aruba.
 
Arubans still feel attacked by the U.S. media.
Many believe the pride of Aruba has been tarnished.

ORANJESTAD-Hundreds of locals expressed their anger on radio shows
and via e-mail to newspapers after watching the "confession-on-tape" on
Monday evening. Arubans reacted massively against Joran van der Sloot,
and that for the first time since the disappearance of Natalee Holloway on
May 30th, 2005.

For the past 2 years the public on the island gave Joran van der Sloot the
benefit of the doubt, in that he was involved in the disappearance of
Natalee. There was no blood, no body, and no evidence of a murder.
Many on the island believed that Natalee was still alive, and was in hiding
somewhere. Others believed that she may have accidentally drowned at
sea, after she was left alone by Joran on the beach.

At least 5,000 government employees were granted two days free, to
help with the search for Natalee in 2005. Dutch F-16 planes were sent to
scan the entire island for a body recently buried underground. Thousands
of volunteers helped search for the missing teen without any result.
There was a search every day for months. And the government was
spending millions in the investigation.

Arubans felt that they were constantly attacked by the U.S. media, and at
times by the Holloway family. That did not help with having sympathy for
the Holloway family, and it certainly did not help the case. In the contrary
Arubans shifted in a defensive mode, and felt that their pride was being
attacked by the media. Arubans felt nothing that they did to help find
Natalee was appreciated.

The Dutch crime reporter, Peter R. de Vries started to investigate the
case at the beginning of 2007. De Vries has spent months studying the
investigation reports, and interviewing those involved in the case. Patrick
van der Eem –a 34 year old Antillean- approached De Vries in The
Netherlands in the middle of 2007, he wanted to help out solving the case.

De Vries hired Van der Eem as an undercover thug that would make
Joran comfortable enough to tell exactly what happened that night. Joran
told his story on different occasions while Van der Eem was driving, and
it was all captured on hidden camera.

Van der Eem is a businessman in Arnhem who loves Aruba, and wanted
closure for the parents of Natalee. In addition, he was tired of the bad
press Aruba has been getting. With the story of Joran on tape, De Vries
added the pieces of the puzzle together and claimed he has solved the
disappearance of Natalee Holloway. His program was broadcasted on
Monday evening to the Aruban public.


"Joran is a psychopath, he has lied to everyone on the island." said an
angry water-sports businesswoman, who did not want her name to be
made public. "I feel so sorry for Natalee, and her parents who had to go
through years of uncertainty as to what happened to their daughter. Our
island will suffer for a long time too, we will bare the consequences of the
actions of one man. My colleague of Pennsylvania was told by his family,
are you going again to that murder island? A person on CNN also
advised tourists that they are better off in Bermuda.''

Management Consultant, Mathilde Robles said that she knew Joran van
der Sloot by face. "He seems like a nice guy, and I did not want to pre-
judge him. But now after watching the program on Monday, I am certain
that he is behind the disappearance of Natalee, he himself has admitted
it."

Robles is shocked on Van der Sloot's comment, that he can not believe
that this has happened to him. "If the judge does not punish this man, we
the Arubans will," said Robles.

Joran van der Sloot said on different occasions that he felt particularly
sorry for the Aruban community. The image of Aruba as the safest
country in the Caribbean has been tarnished ever since the
disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

According to the government, the case has cost the island tens of millions
of dollars. Tourism from the U.S. fell by 9 percent during 2006. Aruba is
70 percent dependent on the U.S. generating market. There are barely
arrivals from Alabama, the state of Natalee Holloway. The Governor of
Alabama has imposed a travel boycott to Aruba.

Public anger is also directed to the father of Joran, Paul van der Sloot,
mainly because Paul has smuggled a cellular phone to his son in prison.
Many on the island now believe that the family Van der Sloot is out for
the money. Paul van der Sloot said earlier that he would sew the country
of Aruba, because he was held as suspect in the disappearance of
Natalee. On tape, Joran said he will also sew, and wants to cash in big
time for a house in Spain.

Emotions ran so high, there were a few people who expressed that
the Van der Sloot family should be deported from Aruba.

http://www.aruba-bb.com/viewtopic.php?t=54632

Big Audience For Confession-On-Tape


February 7th 2008, Aruba.


ORANJESTAD-The program of crime reporter Peter R. de Vries
named "confession-on-tape" was watched by 13 million Americans on
Monday evening. The number of viewers that watched the program is
quiet high, considering the fact that there are over 250 different television
stations in the United States.

The program of De Vries was broadcasted by ABC in their program
20/20, that usually receives an average of 5 million viewers per episode.
The public in Aruba also got to see the confession on Monday evening.

The program was broadcasted in The Netherlands a day before, on
Sunday evening. Eight million viewers in The Netherlands watched the
confession of Joran van der Sloot, a record in Dutch television.

http://www.aruba-bb.com/viewtopic.php?t=54627

That's my point - the guilty are identified. Aruba refusing to act - places the onus on them. No wonder there has been a closed door meeting going for 240 straight hours now.

I have the drug shipments stats somewhere that sort of confirms that the drug lords have had to move their shipments around. They can't be happy about that. Let me see if I can find that info.

Joran cannot be forgiven for what he claims not to have done

I know my stance isn't popular, but I'm not someone who always supports my government even when I think the government is wrong. To me, blind acceptance leads to exactly the type of corruption we've witnessed in Aruba. I agree with you - our government at the top levels needs get on board.

Early on, Paulus and Anita gave an interview (I think to ABC).  The video has been pulled.  There was discussion of Paulus being out of work and he said he couldn't go to the courthouse so he was working from home.  He was never reclused from his job.  It was all for appearance sake.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

http://www.newsweek.com/id/109260
http://www.newsweek.com/id/109260/page/2
http://www.newsweek.com/id/109260/page/3

Cracking the Holloway Case?
Meet the crime writer who believes he's solved the mystery.

De Vries secretly filmed van der Sloot (middle, with his father) saying he had witnessed Natalee Holloway's apparent death and helped dispose of her body. (Van der Sloot has said he was joking and maintains his innocence.)
 
By Catharine Skipp | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Feb 8, 2008 | Updated: 10:56 a.m. ET Feb 8, 2008

The family started the circling of phone calls spreading the word that Natalee was dead June 10, 2005. All of the relatives started arriving at Mrs. reynolds house on June 11, 2005, armed with food and flowers thinking that the burial process was underway, only to see on TV the gradual recanting of the confession by Joran. This activity began because the FBI said they witnessed the confession and that Natalee was definitely dead.

Now wtf is so secretive about that that the FBI won't publicly acknowledge it. Why do they not clear the air about what they saw and heard? It is absolutely insane and absurd.

Good Morning! I am behind in my reading~

Just some thoughts IMO

Mos was the spokesperson for "The dog and pony show"

When the job got more complicated with the recent events he screamed~

I am on vacation starting NOW!

Janssen and Mos ran back to the Netherlands. Who could blame them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ask a Rasta  "Does smoking ganja makes you lie or tell the truth?"

"The TRUTH Mon, the truth."

http://www.elsevier.nl/dossier/asp/dossier/620/index.html

Here is another dosssier w/ summaries, some going back to 2005 in Dutch
The site loads slow, but passing along anyway for those who wish to peek.

I agree PI.

In my opinion ... the line in the sand regarding the issue of  forgiveness was drawn over 2000 years ago ...  "genuine" repentence and forgiveness are a package deal.

Janet

+++++++++++
 
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

yesterday i realized i've been looking too much in the dirty ditch.
so i got overwhelmed by it. (see previous thread)
i am not going to let that happen because it won't help.
i had a good night sleep.

i am not going too look again in the ditch that deep and in so much detail.
you guys have been doing that for me since the start.
i will never be able to keep up with and get all the information in.
i don't even think i can handle even if i tried.

the arubans have failed you, the dutch have failed you.
i have failed for not paying attention to what was really happening on aruba from the start of natalee's disappearance.
even before that when the ditch was created.

i think i will take a step back and look at the big picture.

keep you guys updated with dutch politics in connection with this.
because i believe the dutch politics are slowly realizing aruba, america, the dutch, the world will not wait an eternity for justice.

this week balkenende his visiting the antilles and aruba (friday!).
today peter r. de vries comes back the amsterdam.
so peter r. will be in the news talking about his usa tour while balkenende is not in the country.
if peter r. wasn't such a noble and democratic man he would stage a succesful coup d'etat with american backing - because he is a hero in both countries.
i think the timeline is interesting.
also hans mos being on 'vacation' in the netherlands.

in my signature is an earlier sting operation by peter r. de vries to show you what he can do.
i have to be honest but also that man is still free...
this are other cases not linked to natalee peter r. has covered / solved:
(Mabel Wisse Smith is married to Prince Friso who lost his claim to the throne - due to Peter R. de Vries - this was huge)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_R._de_Vries
i am putting this out here to show you what peter r. is about.
peter r. de vries won't fail you!

he has managed to expose the ditch.
only a glimpse of the ditch.
even if people close their eyes and ears it is already a horrible stench.
the smell won't go away by ignoring it, that's what the dutch politics have been doing the last week.

but now balkenende himself has to go to aruba to a pre-planned summit with aruban pm.
he can't just cancel it because he doesn't want to go - that would be even more suspicious.
he doesn't want it covered by the media so he doesn't talk about it to pretend it's low-key.
but has to go there, although he doesn't want to see the ditch.

when he comes back the stench will follow him around everywhere.
and people will start to ask why he suddenly started stinking after having been in aruba.

If a girl is really drunk it's ok for Joran to take advantage of her but if he is smoking pot in a car he was under the influence and he didn't know what he was saying.

The rules according to Joran and everyone must follow what he says.  If he says she was dead then she was.  But if you say it was murder because of his actions he will say well I don't know if she was dead so that makes the guy Duary the actual murderer.

Its not like we're asking them to act in particular, but at least have the decency to tell us all what went down in Aruba starting that first night with the DEA agent and then what all happened while they were there monitoring the case. They were present for all of the interrogations. What is the secret and what was their reason for being there if it wasn't to keep us informed? Don't they work for us? Or were they there for their own undefined purposes? If so, then they need to tell us that as well. They could shed a whole lot of light on this.

I lost trust in the honesty of the government at a very early age. I lived near a plant that manufactured a large majority of the gunpowder used in the Viet Nam war. I used to go to the local elementary school to catch the bus to the high school. One morning when I arrived at the elementary school, my nylon stockings and slip I was wearing simply disintegrated, and it was difficult to breathe. The high school bus arrived and I went on to school, minus the slip and stockings. Later in the day, I was called to the principal's office. It seems that many of the elementary school children had been hospitalized with blistered lungs, and they wanted to know if I was okay. (I was.) The government denied that what happened had anything to do with the ammunitions plant. About 35 years later, an admission was finally made that the plant had accidentally released hydrochloric acid into the air, and that is what had damaged the lungs of all those elementary school students.

I have always believed that the FBI knew beyond a doubt that Natalee was dead, but they were willing to sacrifice that knowledge in pursuit of some aim of their own. IMO, that makes them part of the problem, not part of the answer.

However ... in spite of "genuine" repentence and forgiveness ... wrongdoing implies that there are personal and legal consequences which need to be accepted.

Janet

Thanks Janet.

PI, I can't seem to find that screen shot. I am pretty sure I grabbed it. I'll stumble onto it at some time. I have a ton of folders and it could be in any of of them....

such as -
Aruba SUX
JVDS
Corruption
Main Aruba folder
and many more

In the capture I remember the confiscated drugs were half of what the were in 05 for 06.

When I find it, should I find it, I'll post it. >>>>shrugs shoulders<<<<<  ::MonkeyConfused::

Wonder who taught him how to play the system??  Jorg, at one time, nailed that one.  "How would a seventeen year old get that idea in his head?"

I have very much appreciated all your input and involvement and I feel that Beth would too.  Please know that your contribution has been large!

     will "the Personna non Grata" return to Aruba?  Where is he now?  The snake mentioned that he might have to leave Holland.  It seems the Dutch are more outraged than the Arubans, although it is hitting them that their economy has been hurt.  But, aren't they between a rock and a hard place.......their economy also depends on drug trafficking and money  laundering......

    

The ball is in Aruba's court. Specifically the 3 judge appeals court.

the appeals court has the whole case file now. They will rule whether to arrest Joran or not.

Is there any doubt they are not really looking at the evidence and this is a political decision?

What are the consequences if they arrest him again, or not?

My guess is they will not order an arrest, because then what? It almost seems like Mos is just giving up.

I think Rudy Croes has already told us, again, they want this to go away and they will not bring Joran back to Aruba.

No way it should take this long. If Mos was going to trial, he would have said so, but to bring Joran to Aruba to "talk to him."

They just did that and got nothing. More strangeness to come.

Thanks Nut44x4 

and by using babelfish  I can translate the entire page so it kinda makes since
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr   ::MonkeyEek::

Caseu, can you tell me if your "constitution" or the foundations for the Dutch law is based on the Magna Carta, and in particular articles 38 and 39 as it pertains to habeas corpus. 

caesu - thanks for being here with us. And you did not fail us or Natalee.

But this guy sure did.

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/2007-02-26_Lantos_Interviewlarge2.jpg)
February 26, 2007 U.S. Congressman Tom Lantos, the Chairman of the House International Relations Committee, visited The Hague, primarily to consult with Dutch officials about foreign policy issues.
In the photo Congressman Lantos gives an interview to Dutch television news program "EenVandaag" ("Channel 1 Today"). The interview was broadcast on Wednesday, February 28, 2007.

Hi Tyler

I'm not Caseu, but out of curiosity I googled Dutch law. This is what I came up with:

Roman Dutch law is a legal system based on Roman law as applied in the Netherlands in the 17th and 18th century. As such, it is a variety of the European continental Civil law or ius commune.

In the Netherlands, the history of Roman Dutch law ended, when the kingdom of the Netherlands adopted the French Code civil in 1809.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman-Dutch_law

The Napoleonic Code, or Code Napoléon (originally called the Code civil des Français) was the French civil code, established under Napoléon I. It was drafted rapidly by a commission of four eminent jurists and entered into force on March 21, 1804. Even though the Napoleonic code was not the first legal code to be established in a European country with a civil legal system — it was preceded by the Codex Maximilianeus bavaricus civilis (Bavaria, 1756), the Allgemeines Landrecht (Prussia, 1792) and the West Galician Code, (Galicia, then part of Austria, 1797) — it is considered the first successful codification[citation needed] and strongly influenced the law of many other countries. The Code, with its stress on clearly written and accessible law, was a major step in establishing the rule of law. Historians have called it "one of the few documents which have influenced the whole world."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleonic_Code

So it looks as if Dutch law is based on the Napoleonic Code.

Rob, Brother Tom has always been rough on my blood pressure.  He did somewhat redeem himself on some other issues, however, when he went back in October 2007.  I hate to ever agree with anything he says or does, but at least he did make half of Europe mad the last time, save Tony Blair and Sarkozy.

  If Dutch Law is based on the Napoleonic Code.....Joran should be under arrest right now...   Guilty until proven Innocent....the opposite of our Justice System....In other words, Joran should be tried and have to prove that he did NOT murder Natalee.......I would like to see this happen!!!

search him on my blog Tylergal....see what gets him hot under the collar.

I called his offices in San Fran and Washington and got the run-around. What a coward.

Dog fighting and steroids take precedent over a human being.

<snip>
A California congressman has joined the cause against Michael Vick, firing off a letter Friday that urged NFL commissioner Roger Goodell to "act swiftly and forcefully" if the Atlanta Falcons quarterback was involved in dog fighting on his former property. U.S. Rep. Tom Lantos (D-Calif.) pointed out that he's a senior member of the Oversight and Government Reform Committee, which two years ago held highly publicized hearings on the use of performance-enhancing drugs in professional sports.

Lantos raised the prospect of government intervention if the NFL fails to discipline Vick.

Here he pisses off the Dutch.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,,-7028503,00.html

<snip>
It was not the first time that Lantos had offended European political circles. In May, he lashed out at the former leaders of France and Germany. His comments, which included calling former German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder a ``political prostitute,'' provoked a rebuke from German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier.

<snip>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Lantos

 family in Budapest, Hungary, Lantos was part of a resistance movement against the Nazis during the German occupation of Hungary. In his floor speeches, he sometimes refers to himself as one of the few living members of Congress who fought against fascism.

He sought refuge in a safe house established by Raoul Wallenberg; in 1981 Lantos sponsored a bill making Wallenberg an Honorary Citizen of the United States. He moved to the United States in 1947, and still speaks with a pronounced Hungarian accent.

Lantos considers himself a secular Jew. He is the only Holocaust survivor ever to serve in Congress.[3] Upon immigrating to the United States he attended the University of Washington and the University of California, Berkeley, receiving his Ph.D in 1953.

For three decades prior to his service in Congress (1950–1980), Lantos was a professor of economics, an international affairs analyst for public television, and a consultant to a number of businesses. He also served as a senior advisor to several U.S. Senators.

Lantos made his first run for office in 1980, when he defeated one-term Republican congressman Bill Royer by 5,700 votes. He has never faced another contest nearly that close, and has been reelected 13 times.

Lantos and his wife Annette have two daughters, Annette and Katrina, and 17 grandchildren. Lantos' wife is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormon church). Annette Lantos is a first cousin of the sisters Zsa Zsa, Eva, and Magda Gabor.[4] Katrina, who married ambassador and former U.S. Representative from New Hampshire's 2nd congressional district Richard Swett, was a candidate for the U.S. Senate in New Hampshire.

Lantos appeared in the Academy Award winning film The Last Days, a documentary of the Holocaust's effect on Hungarian Jews, and "To Bear Witness", another documentary.[5]

Lantos often brings a small white terrier named Mackó (little bear in Hungarian, pronounced mɒtskoː) to his Capitol Hill office. Lantos' previous dog, a small poodle named Gigi, was also a fixture in Washington.

Tom and Annette Lantos are Honorary Members of The International Raoul Wallenberg Foundation

Political Positions

Lantos was a strong supporter of the Iraq War from the start, but from 2006 onward has made increasingly critical statements about the war, and as the chairman of the United States House Committee on Foreign Affairs he held 20 oversight hearings on the war in 2007. See separate section below about the war in Iraq.

Lantos is a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus[6] and has repeatedly called for reforms to the nation's health-care system, reduction of the national budget deficit and the national debt, repeal of the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001, and has opposed Social Security privatization efforts. He supports same-sex marriage rights and marijuana for medical use, is a strong proponent of gun control[7] and is adamantly pro-choice.[8]

Lantos is a well-known advocate on behalf of the environment, receiving consistently high ratings from the League of Conservation Voters and other environmental organizations for his legislative record.[9] His long-standing efforts to protect open space have brought thousands of acres under the protection of the Golden Gate National Recreation Area, including Mori Point, Sweeney Ridge and — most recently — Rancho Corral de Tierra, which will keep its watersheds and delicate habitats free from development permanently.[10][11] In 2005 he opposed an effort to expand public use of the Farallon Islands, a protected wildlife haven.

Lantos has consistently championed local transportation pr

Foreign affairs issues

Lantos currently serves as the chairman of the United States House Committee on Foreign Affairs.

Through its more than 20 years of work, the Congressional Human Rights Caucus[12] — of which Lantos is co-chair with Representative Frank Wolf — has covered a wide range of human rights issues, speaking out for Christians who want to practice their faith in Saudi Arabia and Sudan, fighting for Tibetans to be able to retain their culture and religion in Tibet and advocating for other oppressed minorities worldwide. Lantos’ efforts to protect religious freedom in 2004 resulted in a bill to halt the global spread of antisemitism.[13]

Lantos and his colleagues on the International Relations Committee are also involved with many decisions that affect other aspects of American foreign policy. Lantos has spoken out strongly against waste, fraud and abuse in the multi-billion dollar U.S. reconstruction program in Iraq, and has warned that the U.S. may lose Afghanistan to the Taliban if the Bush Administration fails to take decisive action to halt the current decline in political stability there.

Lantos, then the ranking Democrat on the International Relations Committee, tried to disrupt U.S. military aid to Egypt. Lantos argued that the Egyptian military had made insufficient efforts to stop the flow of money and weapons across the Egyptian border to Hamas in Gaza, and had not contributed troops to internationally-supported peacekeeping efforts in Afghanistan and elsewhere. Lantos is a strong advocate of Israel, and has spoken at the American Israel Public Affairs Committee.[14]

I would imagine that which can be used as evidentiary material would not be released to the public.  Also, we really do not know which country sent Patrick.  Nothig is as it seems many time.  Some people work for different countries under the guise of being a hoodlum if it suits the purpose.  Their records checked reveal what the sender wants the public or whomever to see.  It is an easy thing.  As I have said many times, all is not as it seems.  This country and other countries have people working and living there that bind together for the good and is deep within other agencies where not many can uncover the patriotic work.  Some things just have to be.        Jack Blue

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/currentaffairs/080209-holloway-sloot
Last night,  I had the radio on late and there was a program broadcast on Radio Netherlands. There was a Dutch lawyer on and thery were discussing the case from the standpoint of whether or not the DeVries tapes are evidence.
It was one of the higher standing lawyers in the NL. It was his opinion that the answer was no, based on the unreliability of the subject. He was a professor type, you know the kind.
Anyway, this is a big story in NL. He said that you must not mix law with emotion. He said that there were mobs following Joran around, wanting to do something. LOL
I can't find a podcast of the actual program, but I did like the part about mobs.
These programs go worldwide. I like that part also.   

Where's that standing "O" for you, Jack Blue. What you said is so true.  We cannot always get under the kitchen sink of governments to see how the disposal works.

Kat, I am glad that you listened to that.  I have been so appreciative of Caseu and Ciskebab, Northern Star and others for being here.

See, a judge does not always hand down the appropriate sentence.  Sometimes the perp builds his own walls of prison and is surrounded by them for eternity.  The Dutch people's hearts are in the right place and Joran cannot escape the loathing of him anymore than he can escape Alcatraz.  I think they should just send him to Beth's house and let her beat the crap out of him everyday.

If this is true then Paulus was directing Joran from the outside the whole time.  This big front where they ruled that Paulus could not have contact with Joran was all just a big show.  Paulus should be in jail right now for this act alone, seperate from whatever involvement he had in Natalee's case.  This is a seperate crime and one he should be serving time for right now.  Why is this family do immune on this island.  They can do whatever they want without consequence.  Time for the average Joe to take justice into his own hands.

   I saw in one video, today, that Beth is satisfied.....she said it hadn't been about Justice, but the Truth. She feels she now knows the truth.... I hope it doesn't result in just that.  Maybe she does know the truth, maybe she does know more than we.....I believe we may all have to be satisfied with what is being touted as "the truth" right now.  Does anyone belive Joran will recieve his punishment, on this Earth???  
     Maybe being a Personna non Grata,......a pariah amonst men, will prove to punish him!!

Patrick ... if he was a trained interrogator, then Joran would have caught on.
And then, a trained interrogator probably would have a police association. He got what came out of Joran's mouth, he didn't put in in there for Joran. If he had been an agent of the police, it would all have been not useable.
The fact that it was made in a vehicle is somehow important to the law. No expectation of privacy.
DeVries is a former cop, he does these types of shows all the time, secret recordings and he does it all within the legality of their laws.   

Arlene Ellis-Schipper'
The Abrams Report'
June 30, 2005

ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, ARUBAN ATTORNEY: Well basically obstruction of justice is a criminal offense in our criminal code. However, there is an exoneration for family members in the first degree. So in the case of Mr. Van der Sloot it would not apply.

(http://cdnll.img1.imagechef.com/w/080210/samp3ef14cf2ded12b2a.jpg)

I second what Tylergal said at:

 I have been so appreciative of Caseu and Ciskebab, Northern Star and others for being here.


Caseu, do not make yourself ill over this for I know first hand that can happen because it is just so sickening to see these things.


And Good Morning to all!

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/thestatewerein/tswiradioprogramme/tswi-prog37

Ha Ha I did find it ....

My thoughts exactly.  If he had started probing like a cop, Joran would have never told him a thing.  That's just not the way sting operations work.  :)

Incidentally, I heard 5-6 international lawyers discuss the tape and all of them but 1 said under Dutch/Aruban law it would stand up in court.  So I think their law is as dicey as ours, interpretation is in the eye of the favor of the defendant.

However, having said that, the law was not broken since Patrick nor Peter is currently the "long arm" of the law, if what I think I read is right.   But, then Arleen admonished us that we don't understand their system.  :)

e at night. The friends said goodbye, Joran van der Sloot spent some time with her. Natalee Holloway vanished, never to be seen again.

That, in a nutshell, was the official story, one that Dutch viewers, and certainly the Justice authorities on Aruba, were familiar with. But Peter R. de Vries had managed to obtain a full confession from the main suspect. He had a Range Rover rigged with several hidden cameras and instructed the driver, a Caribbean-born entrepreneur who had befriended Van der Sloot six months before, to ask the student some pointed questions.

"Didn't tick anymore"
The video footage shows Joran van der Sloot smoking marihuana and telling his friend on several occasions the details of what happened on Aruba two and a half years ago.  


Joran van der Sloot (centre)
with friends on a recent night out
 
He describes how he had sex with the young American woman, that all of a sudden "she started shaking and didn't tick anymore", how he phoned an friend who owned a boat and who then came over to the beach to help him to dispose of the body at sea.  

Again, most Dutch viewers had already heard much of that part too. It was leaked to the press on Friday and Joran van der Sloot was quick to respond.

"So dumb"
Speaking by telephone on a late-evening talk show on Friday, Van der Sloot said he was retrospectively kicking himself for having said all this: "It's so dumb, so dumb. It's really dumb. I said something; something I shouldn't have said." However, he also added that "It is also easy to prove that what I said is not true," although he appeared not to know how this could be done.

"The American girls were drinking, taking coke... I told them I had to go to school tomorrow. I could see Natalee's friend wanted to have sex. [...] She said, pointing to Natalee, 'that girl fancies you.'"

"That whore... she ordered a jelly shot, which I drank from her bellybutton while she was lying on the bar... I gave her a Bacardi 151 (75 percent alcohol)...wanted to f*** her. [...] She said she didn't want me to take her back to the hotel. She wanted to see the sharks [there are no sharks near the island, ed]."
 
 Joran van der Sloot
 

Van der Sloot maintained his innocence: "It's a story I told my friend because I knew that it was what he wanted to hear".

  

"All of a sudden, she started shaking all over... there was no one there... So I talked to her. And she didn't say anything."

"I told my friend 'I have a problem'. I moved her to a mangrove-bush... I was shaking that bitch, nearly cried - why did this shit happen to me?"

"He was there as well... it was 2.30 A.M...  he has his own boat"

"I know what happened to her. She is dead, of course. [...] I would never kill a girl... I

   Does it take an hour and a half for someone to have a severe reaction to too much alcohol????  Even GHP and alcohol????  An hour and a half,......I would think, if it was true that Natalee had too much to drink, after and hour and a half she would be starting to sober up.....or a reaction  to too much alcohol would have set in much sooner.
 

Love this photo Martini!

Mornin' Friends and Family...good to see you all here again...I don't know why, maybe because I had a good night's sleep, or because the sun is shining so bright on top of the mountain here...but...I have a strong, still, gut feeling that something very big is going to happen tomorrow...really big...I just wish I knew why I feel this way....God/Goddes speed Justice to Natalee.

Destiny

It is available for a download to MP3... it's an interesting discussion with some different thoughts .. how far can a private citizen go in these types of cases...
I'm all for Human Rights, but somehow, in my mind, Joran doesn't have them..
Must be me , mixing law and emotion ..

For those interested here is a link for Dutch Law, which contains many links to individual items.

http://www.nyulawglobal.org/globalex/Netherlands1.htm

Well, I do believe he has done the best he could with what he has.  I am in Mos' corner until he proves my trust in him to be misplaced.

    Yikes, forgive my inability to Quote and Post correctly.......in my above Post all I wanted to copy and paste was the part in red, where Joran says it was 2:30 am....Does it take an hour and a half for a person to die or have a seisure from too much alcohol???  Even mixing a drug like GHB with alcohol, I would imagine a reaction would come much sooner.

http://www.peterrdevries.nl/tekst/column-peter-ouders-joran-tot.htm

peter r. put another column out with leads about Paul vdS especially
haven't got time to translate now sorry.

i more and more start thinking we are in for something big this week with Balkenende on the Antilles/Aruba,
Peter R. in the Netherlands putting more leads out everyday.
international MSM covering everything extensively.
 ::MonkeyDance::

Caesu...Thank You...you bring very tasty bits to the table ;-)   Now I'll wait for the translation from some other helpful Monkey...

Thanks!

Through google translator:

WHAT ABOUT THE FACT
JORANS WITH PARENTS?

A few weeks ago I sat with the parents of Joran van der Sloot in the talk of Pauw & Witteman. They claimed that when Joran opgevoede a good boy, respectful with other girls who had become involved. It also suggested that if they would have evidence that Joran is indeed in the disappearance of Natalee was concerned, they themselves directly to the police would go.

-- LIMITS TO NAÏVITEIT --

Jorans mother - who during the disappearance of Natalee stayed in the Netherlands - on that occasion came to me as a sweet, honest woman, who keeps many of her child, but has no idea how it really works. But also naivety are obviously limits, which according to me after watching our broadcast it ought to have been achieved.

Jorans someone whose father is especially Americans believe that he knows more of the whole thing. He was at the time of the disappearance on Aruba and later his son advised that nothing more to say to the police during questioning. He devoted Joran, according to take claims.

Joran denies us in the talks included explicitly that his father has been involved in the disappearance of Natalee. The fact that his helper him to be saying that night aanspoorde 'to jump to go home because he had to go to school the next', many see nevertheless an indication that it is possible nonetheless to his father can go.

-- BINNENGESMOKKELDE TELEPHONE --

There is, however, another thing to Joran admits Patrick, complete with many details. And that is that Paul van der Sloot father, while he was judge, with his son at his request, a mobile phone in the cell has smuggled when for the first time he was arrested. It is a story that overcomes very authentic and for a judge / attorney course nedopustno doodzonde.

And this more or less in passing by Joran told story can sometimes ensure that the parents of Joran still something else in the whole story to come than they Pauw & Witteman wanted to believe. They have now themselves great interest in everything that Joran has declared as a verzinsel be dismissed, because otherwise 'hangs' father also Van der Sloot for entering the phone. In that case, he undoubtedly struck off as a lawyer and is also its reputation on Aruba themselves to the moon. The parents had until recently a fairly respectable position on the island, but as for where it is assumed that Van der Sloot father investigating the disappearance so that Aruba has damaged deliberately sabotaged, there will be nothing left.

-- TO THE POLICE --

If the previous statements from the parents Pauw & Witteman considered, you would expect that after the broadcast - which can be seen that he is ten times his involvement known - to their son were toegegaan and had said: Now it's over. We go to the police and tell you everything that has happened, without your even one second to invoke your right to silence.

This is not the case. Instead, Joran through his lawyer with a statement, that he all under the influence of weed-cigarettes has stated that the series of confessions in a bizarre verzinsel. It could hardly be otherwise, or the parents have to realize that this is a cheap excuse… but also the benefit of father Paul. If everything verzinsel one is the story of the phone is also not true. If everything is true however, it is undoubtedly also from the assumption that the story of the binnengesmokkelde phone also is true, with all the consequences of that for him.

-- STORY DOES NOT STAND --

Anyone who thinks of himself a bit soft drugs has ever smoked, should realize that Jorans story of the weed-cigarettes can not keep. Joran during five different car, different days - sometimes more than a week between - made detailed confessions. In each subsequent trip, he repeated that confession, confirmed and extended. Never once has he said that he last time but will be transferred from his neck kletste because he was under the influence. Quite. And 'coincidence' fits the bulk of those confessions also is exactly in line with the previous police investigation and responded Joran also a significant number of outstanding questions therein (how he came home, which he did with the shoes, the involvement of the Kalpoe - brothers etc. etc.).

In addition, I must also point out that there are also trips have been where he NOT smoked, or change AFTER there on the case of Natalee was spoken. The images suggest this clearly. So even when he broodnuchter 'was, he made admissions and / or repeated. Of Joran now wants to claim that he is the morning - if Patrick him around twelve o'clock - he came to collect all 'stoned' to his grandmother on the couch Saturday?

-- OTHER DELICTEN OPGEBIECHT? --

But even though he was already stoned - which I do not believe - then is whether you then suddenly all sorts of bizarre crimes will admit that while you are innocent? Or like the parents and grandmother of Joran us now to believe that they were going on every day that he is an unsolved murder opbiechtte if he again sigaretje opstak?? Of course not, because they effect a weed cigarette-not at all. Otherwise, the Dutch police stations daily tjokvol sit with people who spontaneously various outstanding offences confess and that is not the case. Jorans story is untenable. It is the only excuse that Joran could think of for his persistent confessions of an explanation. And that is in my view an explanation that his parents now suits because they now own a stake in it…

Peter R. De Vries

Thanks you Buckeye.


Have a good Sunday Monkeys.

Off to church and ... then a family reunion on hubby's side at sister's home.  There are six relatives visiting from Japan.  I am looking forward to the afternoon ... lots of good company and ... lots of great food ... other than the sashimi (raw fish) ... ugh!

Janet
9:15 am

Posted by Auntiem above:

Joran van der Sloot
 

Van der Sloot maintained his innocence: "It's a story I told my friend because I knew that it was what he wanted to hear".

 

"All of a sudden, she started shaking all over... there was no one there... So I talked to her. And she didn't say anything."

"I told my friend 'I have a problem'. I moved her to a mangrove-bush... I was shaking that bitch, nearly cried - why did this shit happen to me?"

"He was there as well... it was 2.30 A.M... he has his own boat"

"I know what happened to her. She is dead, of course. [...] I would never kill a girl... I

   Does it take an hour and a half for someone to have a severe reaction to too much alcohol????  Even GHP and alcohol????  An hour and a half,......I would think, if it was true that Natalee had too much to drink, after and hour and a half she would be starting to sober up.....or a reaction  to too much alcohol would have set in much sooner.
 
 
 
 
----------------


Someone working at the Marriott would also "be there" and have a boat.  Joran would not have to even phone, he could just walk over.

Who worked at the Marriott who was likely to have access to a boat?

More people involved in this than Freddie lived near Joran.  Was there a trusted older neighbor already "there" and one who could have the use of a boat?  The advice given to Joran about going to school sounds very fatherly to have come from a kids.  Sounds like something a mature adult would say.

Who did Joran know already there (at the Marriott) with a boat that he felt he could trust this much and was also a neighbor?  Would this person be a logical one to contact by either Joran or Paulus in this regard?

jmho

.

i will try not to

Yet it is also true that it takes a firestorm of emotion to wake Old Man Law up from his nap!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Auntiem ~  I would bet my bottom dollar Beth knows a lot more than we do.  As far as Joran receiving his punishment on this Earth-I doubt he will be brought to trial and punished by law to the full extent for the crimes he committed.  However, there are different kinds of punishment down here on Earth besides jail, and that is where Joran will get what's coming to him.  IMO of course.

I know Freddy worked at Champions Bar in the Marriott, not sure of the date of his employment.  Mark Purcell also worked at the Marriott.

Thank You Klaas...and Caesu!

Sting operations are legal here in Canada. Several cases have been solved here with " undercover " set ups. persons convicted. Peter did not break any laws in his country. Now, if the tapes had been made on Aruba, maybe that would be different. Seems as if he has painted Aruba into a corner. Public outrage in Holland is a good thing from my viewpoint. The viewership of 7 -8 million is 1/2 of the population of Holland. He has put the ball in Mos's court, let's see what he can do with it. It can't be swept under the rug now, regardless what Rudy Croes / Obuber or anyone on Aruba is thinking or wishing or hoping.
..
Sure, Joran can go anywhere in the EU, but he will take and meet himself wherever he goes. In other words, there is no escape from this for him.
.
As far as forgiveness, well, isn't a true confession part of all that ? In church the Father forgives you your sins, but you have to confess first. Then there is a pennace. I was raised in the United Church so things are still fuzzy to me about confession , pennace, redemption.
..
As long as Joran ( my thoughts ) is in denial, there would be no healing for him.
His lifestyle to me is an indication of the work he needs to do if he is ever to
lead a life that is worthy. Think he can live another 50 years the way is is going, the path he is on ?  Ah, but he does not care yet. Mama, Papa and Joe T will make this all go away.   

Janet...pass all your Sashimi over to me...I Love Sashimi...have a wonderful time with your Family ;-)

No but I can sure as hell tell when the disposal is broke when there is nasty water all over the kitchen floor, and my kitchen floor is flooded with dirty dish water.

Maybe that's why I couldn't shake this the other day and saved it....

PROCES - VERBAAL

I, Giovanni Chevalier HEYLIGER, agent first class at the Korps Police force Aruba and the Flex-Team, explain the following.

On, Monday June 30, 2005, around 15:15, I heard as witness a man who gave his name as:

John Joseph WARDLAW

born in United Kingdom on 16 February 1956, living at Montana xxxxxxxxxx, employed at the (International School). This statement was taken in English and translated by me, HEYLIGER, to Dutch and sounds as follows:

I can tell you with certainty that Joran was in school Monday, May 30, 2005

No offense meant, but a man who hasn't had water in 100 days, if he could live that long, is going to appear appreciative after 1 glass of water. Does that mean he doesn't need more?

Mos:

"I promised the suspects that we would either proceed or not by the end of the year"
"Two and a half years is a long time to have your life on hold, to be under scrutiny"

So Joran is no longer a suspect, no one is a suspect. Case closed. Coverup complete to this day.

Who worked at the Marriott who was likely to have access to a boat?

More people involved in this than Freddie lived near Joran.  Was there a trusted older neighbor already "there" and one who could have the use of a boat?  The advice given to Joran about going to school sounds very fatherly to have come from a kids.  Sounds like something a mature adult would say.

Who did Joran know already there (at the Marriott) with a boat that he felt he could trust this much and was also a neighbor?  Would this person be a logical one to contact by either Joran or Paulus in this regard?

jmho

.
[/quote]

my goodness, could we possibly know someone who worked at the marriott at that time?  someone who's stuck his nose into the case on the side of jvds?  why, i'd be willing to bet we could if we tried really, really hard.
dennisintn

I don't think Peter should give Anita a free pass.  She is no innocent.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Mum posted:


Maybe that's why I couldn't shake this the other day and saved it....

PROCES - VERBAAL

I, Giovanni Chevalier HEYLIGER, agent first class at the Korps Police force Aruba and the Flex-Team, explain the following.

On, Monday June 30, 2005, around 15:15, I heard as witness a man who gave his name as:

John Joseph WARDLAW

born in United Kingdom on 16 February 1956, living at Montana xxxxxxxxxx, employed at the (International School). This statement was taken in English and translated by me, HEYLIGER, to Dutch and sounds as follows:

I can tell you with certainty that Joran was in school Monday, May 30, 2005

Destiny responds:

The...that would be the morning that the bus driver said that he picked up Jorin nesr Lorenz's house on the way to school...hmmmmmmmm

my goodness, could we possibly know someone who worked at the marriott at that time?  someone who's stuck his nose into the case on the side of jvds?  why, i'd be willing to bet we could if we tried really, really hard.
dennisintn
[/quote]

The G had their boat out that evening. Its in the statements. Joran was invited but not go. I suspect they left the boat at the Marriot dock after the cruise instead of retrailoring it and driving it back to the G home. One phone call and the the keys to a boat 100 yards from the mangroves.

The G had their boat out that evening. Its in the statements. Joran was invited but not go. I suspect they left the boat at the Marriot dock after the cruise instead of retrailoring it and driving it back to the G home. One phone call and the the keys to a boat 100 yards from the mangroves.[/quote]

Nope....Anita *saw* Natalee's underwear...she told Beth what they looked like...Beth confirmed this on national TV ...no free pass for that witch!

my goodness, could we possibly know someone who worked at the marriott at that time?  someone who's stuck his nose into the case on the side of jvds?  why, i'd be willing to bet we could if we tried really, really hard.
dennisintn
[/quote]


Yes, dennisintn, someone that all the American Expats would rally around and whom Joran may have known as neighbor, whose child he may have played with while growing up or at least knew.  Are the expats protecting one of their own instead of Joran after all?

Someone who could just hop in his choice of several boats right there on the beach or at the dock.  Someone whose own son might sell X out of a bar near C&C?  Someone who has shown an abnormal interest in all this for some odd reason or other?

Anita told the suspects to stay away from the "Rott.  Was there surveillance and if so who told her that?  Someone who worked there?  Even Shango said House of Bill which Tyler has explained several times.

jmho

When Joran talked about using the Marriott phone, he talked about, "over where I sit all the time".  Hmmmm those early reports of Natalee leaving with a drug dealer.  Did Joran get The Marriott because of his looks?  Boeti would scare the Marriott tourists??

Why did Joran need a VIP pass to C&C?  Who got it for him? Aren't those usually given to people that drum up business?  Bring in girls?  I know my daughter is approached by "promoters" in LA and Miami, with passes to all sorts of things.  Never from a guy in high school.

spock wrote:

Excellent point Spock.  We know Sander asked Joran on 5/29/05 if he wanted to go out in the boat.  Sander and whoever probably did go out that day and may very well have left the boat at the Marriott dock.  Then Sander conveniently looses his cell phone on 5/30/05 at school???

Posted by P.I.


No offense meant, but a man who hasn't had water in 100 days, if he could live that long, is going to appear appreciative after 1 glass of water. Does that mean he doesn't need more?

    You are absolutely right.  A temporary relief in knowing what happened....the relief will fade.....the memory, the heartbreak will never!!

Klaasend, thank you very much for activating my account! ::MonkeyDance::

Hi Monkeys,
I'm a newbie, have been reading your posts for the past week or so and am very impressed of what you all came up with.

Reading all posts I became more and more convinced that Paulus van der Sloot is the evil genius in  this whole sceme.
I do not have proof for the following, but in my opinion this is what happened:
Paulus is the one who had access to information at the times Joran was in jail, and he easily could inform Joran what Joran should watch out for by using Jorans attorney as a messenger.
No doubt in my mind that he did it that way.

A teenage boy would normally get scared and confess but Joran didn't. Why?
Because Paulus told him from the beginning it was going to be allright.
Joran just had to hang in there and deny his involvement.
Joran grew up while his father was practising law. Why then does Joran have no respect at all for the law?
Because he saw and heard too much of he old boys network at the vdS-home while growing up.
And why does Joran obviously have no respect at all for his father?
Who can respect an elder who obviously is lying his *ss off and ties to blame you, a child, for his own doing??
In my opinion, Paulus expected to get away with it all, but then Joran was arrested.
Paulus thought: well, he is a minor, IF he ever gets the blame and get convicted,
he wil get a diminished sentence.
And why did Paulus say that if there's no body there's no crime?
Legally that's true, but I think he said it because he knew they couldn't find a body.
Its about time they dig up that pool at the vanderSloots' property.
I really don't understand why they havent done that already years ago.

I would like the Dutch government not to pay a florin to Aruba anymore till this case is solved.
And when the rumours get loud enough, questions wil be asked about this case in the dutch parliament, if so, probably a dutch investigation will start and heads will roll.
With the deVries tapes, in Holland this may be a reason for reasonable doubt, i think.
If so then they can re open the case.
but im not sure about aruban law.
Further,knowing Peter de Vries, he has other leads. Peter does not act on a single thing without a backup theory. And from what i hear and read, he also thinks Paulus is in up to his ears on this.
I have to excuse myself for the poor english in my posts,but i hope you all understand what i wrote here.
Bye for now,
Imnoangel

>>>>taps toes<<<

[/quote]


Or just stroll over to the 'Rott and ask good neighbor to use his or the hotel's boat already there.

.

Yes, he did indeed.  Also neighbor of Joran's, both of them.  But one had access to boat as director of facilities.  Might even give fatherly advice to go to school.

.

Hmmmm, MP????   Has he really faded into obscurity????    Or is he still around??? Maybe RH could tell us... ::MonkeyCool::

Welcome to Scared Monkeys!

Remember there was a confession on 6/10/05 that was retracted.  I believe Joran did confess and that's when the coverup went into full swing.

To all the new posters and especially the Dutch


(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Greetings/Prayer%20Thanks%20Compliment/thwelcomegroup6.gif)



Do not concern yourselves at all with your English being good enough to post.  We do not use our own best most of the time.  Can't speak for others but I understand everything you say with no problems at all. 

If someone doesn't they can always ask you to say it a different way so they can.

I find Peter deVries accent very endearing and can understand him better than, oh, say. . . .Greta for example.   ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::
.

Tapping fingers wondering why you are tapping your toes?  ::MonkeyHaHa::

But I do agree with you, whatever relief she got certainly seemed to agree with her. She seemed sooooooo much better:)

    Where is that confession? Has it been destroyed or do they still have it stashed some place like they kept the wire taps or tapes that prevented PVDS from gaining monetary compensation. Remember when they said in court that he had been in Natalee's company on TWO occassions that evening????  We know he was next to her (and obviously skeeving her out) in the Casino.....what was the SECOND time???????

JUNE 9-11, 2005  -  THE DISTURBING EVENTS SURROUNDING THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE IN ARUBA

To many followers of the Natalee Holloway case the events that took place around the date of June 10, 2005 are highly suspicious in nature. The three main suspects, who remain so to this day, were arrested the previous day. This was 10 days after Natalee's disappearance on Aruba, a fact that has been much discussed as troublesome in itself on the part of Aruba's prosecutor and Police Department.

On June 10th it was publicly released to the world-wide media that one of the suspects—either Joran Van Der Sloot, Deepak Kalpoe, or Satish Kalpoe-- had confessed that Natalee was dead, had been buried at a given location, and was taking law enforcement personnel to the exact spot to recover her body. This statement was released to the press by Police Chief Gerold Dompig and was covered widely in the mainstream media. Minister of Justice, Rudy Croes confirmed this confession to the media. Then, in an action confusing to many, this statement was retracted the following day, June 11th, as misinformation. It should also be noted that this is around the same time Aruba Prime Minister Nelson Oduber returned to the island for the first time since Natalee's disappearance.[/color]
[/u]
What followed these events was a series of releases re-arrests, new arrests and more releases of suspects by ALE, a flurry of questionable judicial decisions by a group of Dutch judges from Curacao, and the formation of a group of government and business leaders who have hired people like the Police Chief to cast dispersions on the character of the victim and her family. The case of Natalee Holloway still flounders today, 16 months later.

Questions surrounding this strange series of the confession and retraction abound. Why would such detailed statements be given to the world media for distribution, by both the police and the Minister of Justice, if there was no truth to them? Who would know better what the suspects' statements were than those in charge of questioning them? Perhaps most peculiar, why have these statements never been released when so many others in the case have been disseminated? Does the retraction of the statement under such strange circumstances indicate a widespread cover-up of the crime had begun?

just read peter de vries´s site, and, reading between the lines, my earlier post reflect peters´ thoughts on this as well. anyway, not neccissarily the poolstory but the rest.but, we´ll see.

thanks for the warm welcome!!

When the statement was made last week by, I believe, Rudy Croes, that Joran was no longer welcome in Aruba,  a further statement was made about removing Paulus for all government boards they listed the hospital board, and the PRISON board, etc.  I can not find the quote, but it was surprising to me that with his son having been in KIA he was on the prison board.  Surprising to me in a "oh my gawd, that explains so much" type suprise.

If this was already discussed, can some one point me to that discussion.  If not, what are your thoughts?

cause I get what Anna's gettin' at....

I'm just waiting for someone to say it....LOL ::MonkeyWink::

I was just commenting on the portion of the post about "maybe she knows more than we do".  I feel VERY certain Beth does.  As far as "we may all have to be satisfied" ~  no way!!  I'm not stopping now.  You may not hear from me that much and I'm not a puter wunderkind, but I've been here a while and won't be leaving any time soon.  Whenever I get the opportunity to correct disinformation concerning the case I do it, in real life.   I write and email to try to make a difference.  There are those that would love for us all to roll over and quit.  It won't happen.  Too many will stand by the girl.  And that means the whole enchilada.  Even if it means just picking at it and picking at it and picking at it over time, till the dam breaks and the truth gushes out.  I wouldn't be satisfied and I wouldn't expect Beth or her family to be satisfied either~ever.  I pray there will be justice for Natalee.  No one can ever bring her back, but I hope those that brought harm to her will feel pain and know she was beloved and what was done was wrong.  And here is an important part ~  that they cannot do this to another young girl again.  EVER  (rant over)

i have read somewhere at scareymonkeys that paulus van der sloot had acces to all files when joran was in prison.
im sure i read it at scareymonkeys.

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/moombaburnsdown2.jpg)

who works here?

Hi imnoangel!Glad to have you on board!
Klaas, I believe the exactly the same as you do....Confession 6/10/05.....Retraction......
Coverup begins ........
I will never , ever believe any different.....
There is nothing that can make me change my mind.There are many things about this case that I have doubts about, but that is not one of them.....JMO

 OK Rob, I give up!!!  If it's not Mark Purcell...who is it??

Imnoangel...Welcome to the Cage!

Your english is wonderful...I don't know any Dutch..lol

Thank You for your contributions ;-)

(http://i29.tinypic.com/dvhufm.jpg)

Was this photo ever dated?

i just do not believe they dropped her in the ocean.
much too risky.
and besides, they do not want to get caught, why lying all this time and then tell where to search...
it just doesnt make sense
i put my money on the pool.

I agree with you on this one...but I also think *something* is in a crab cage in the ocean..I think it will be found too. Praying it will be. God/Goddes speed the Persistance.

I believe that was 6-15-2005. But I could be mistaken.

Who is the guy in the pink shirt standing next to Jansen?

Rob, you're not sitting in a bathroom stall at the Minneapolis airport are you?  Sorry, I couldn't resist. ::MonkeyTongue::

We discussed it yesterday I think.....mpjr

What's confusing is that Dompig told Jossy that each time there was an ocean search, the three suspects got very nervous. Could he have been saying this to throw the case, Jossy off?

I'm thinking she COULD be in the landfill. Lots of mystery around that place. Witness who saw three men dump a blond woman wrapped in a rug, 6/01. Has he been discredited?

Dave et al were stopped from digging and when they returned to the same area it had been covered up. Why?

I'm with you, she MAY not be in the ocean. Too convenient, IMO.

JMHO
fran

   Looks like that head detective.  Better question who has the mask on and why?????

That is what happens when liquid plummer is not used regularly, then the experts have to come in.  Also, in the meantime mop up and make you a path to walk in.     Jack blue

Very true!! exactly what i am thinking.

also some dutch people don't like it when somebody is in the spotlight for a long time unregarding the goal is very honourable and the spotlight is needed for the cause.

they got bored of Beth, and now they are getting bored of Peter R. too.
but both Beth and Peter are very determinant.
Peter knows how to set dutch people in motion

 ::MonkeyTongue:: back @ ya.. LOL

That person on the far right of the photo is dressed in medical garb...

  Oh!!!! Jr.

van der Straaten

It appears there might be a gourney between them...

Too funny katysmom!! ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

  Or Coroners garb!!!

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/straaten.jpg)

Of course, how could I forget.   :2doh:

Well...that's an *oh shit!* Look on his face..staring straignt at the camera...

I really don't want to see joran in the ditch brought in and tried on minor charges,which seems that's all they have on him.....but I also think this is what will happen.joran will stick by his taped confession,get 6 months with time served and some time in a mental ward in Holland.Aruba can then sigh deeply,NO coverup to uncover,NO corruptions to uncorrupt.
I don't want to see this end this way but I fear it is already in the works.joran and paulus cannot be taken down FULLY unless a few more go down with them,I don't see that happening.

Does anyone know who the blond woman is?

     I agree Karma...that is why I think this tape is phony......Joran admits to nothing!!!!

Who are the others in the photo?

   the blonde is the former Prosecutor, Karin Jansen....

Bonde is Karin Janssen standing next to Van der Straaten.  The rest are ALE forensic and maybe some FBI...not sure.

Now...who could be on the gurney between them?

   Looks like a Coroner.....and why would he have a mask on.... usually when examining a corpse..

Why that's Karin Jansen...of course

    Karin, are you still on vacation??????

BINGO!

    This is the moment they discovered "the heavy battery"!!!!!

The following three images are from a 'suicide'. I understand the scene was particularly grisly. The deceased man was a migrant construction worker. There was a dead body here. Note the attire.

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/suicide1.jpg)

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/suicide2-1.jpg)

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/suicide3.jpg)

The white funeral van is own by Ad Patres Funeral Home. Their website now appears to be closed.

June 2005

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/dvhufm.jpg)

April 2007

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/NATALLEE192.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/NATALLEE54.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/NATALLEE212.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/NATALLEE6.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/NATALLEE86.jpg)

Rob...this appears to be a different location than the previous photos posted in this thread...and, why would VDS and Karen be present at a migrant workers' *suicide* ?

I thought in the original search of Joran's shed, the FBI had to stay outside the fence and could only look from afar.

Just from my memory.  I do also recall they were only there a very few hours, maybe 4-6 and it was all over. 

Biohazard suits. Yet they were not there long enough to do any detailed forensics.  Was it for show or what?

.

Destiny, it is a different location and those pictures are from 07.

I was just showing the attire used at the scene of a dead body.

Klaas,

I thought those photos were of the KLPD in 2007, especially the guy with the measuring tape.  Wasn't that the Dutch search and not the original ALE one/

Destiny - the suicide photos were simply for reference showing the attire, it has nothing to do with the NH case.

June 2005 is the original ALE.  April 2007 is KLPD.  I didn't specify when I posted the photos but yes.

Whi isn't everyone in biohazards suits....?  standing so close to a gurney...I would want one like the others...

That is not Vanderstratten, not the Chief Vanderstratten anyway.  That dude is heading up the Dutch investigators (forensic) and is from Holland, I believe.  Jan Vanderstratten looks nothing like this guy.   jack blue

That's why I said what I have highlighted above.  There are questions if FBI was allowed to participate at all.

Thank You Rob...I always need clarification...lol

Biohazard suits for use around stinky sweat  ::MonkeyCool::

Thanks for labeling them.  I am taking pain meds for an abscessed tooth and may be BUI.  Easily confused today.

.

I guess because they are not going to "touch" anything!!!

Jack - you are wrong on this one.  That is Jan van der Straaten and that photo was from 2005 not 2007 when KLPD searched. 

Rob.... is that the same attire that was worn at the arubay rock scene?

Pic from June 05

Blown to 300% and Cropped
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/Bio-suits2.jpg)

Colors inverted
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/Bio-suits2colorsinverted.jpg)

In my opinion, looks like a stretcher possibly located in that frame.

I was just thinking that cubbee...same attire as rocks pix.

REPLY to Rob's "Wine cellar" photo

"On the beach"...Moomba/Marriott beach

All the interviewed suspects worked on the beach
They were all "pimps" preying on ALL the students

Things were stolen
Rooms attempted to be broken into
Free drinks/Free ego stroking for them
ALL the students were set up..It was the p.i.m.p.s. game.

Joran
Guido
Freddy
Steve Croes
Geoffrey
Security guards
more....

Who was "working" on the beach, talking to Natalee (most likely rejected),
was at C&C & then back to the beach....Who's family and friends are the misdirection campaign.  Who is the "wild & crazy guy jealous of Joran"

(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/1971122e.jpg)
(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/19b94ce7.jpg)

yes it it. Those are bio-suits. Not Haz-Mat suits. Those suits you see here, are to keep biological material off your skin. They are not to prevent you from breathing toxic fume.

just something for entertainment


"Let us not pull an old cow out of the ditch"

this is a saying meaning:

"Let us not start talking about bad stories from the past"

this saying effectively encourages cover-ups

it is used for example at a birthday party when someone brings up a earlier disagreement or a fight.
as in: shut up, we are having fun now.

http://www.onzetaal.nl/advies/oudekoeien.php

Photo from June 2005 - Karin Janssen and Jan van der Straaten:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/straaten2.jpg)

Got it...

I think it is as well.  Have seen him in that pink shirt before.

Someone should open up a good taste shirt store in Aruba.  There is a crying need for one.

JMO with regard to someone his size wearing pink.  Looks like a beached whale or walrus or something.

.

Thank You Rob...I have experience with people on stretchers...you DO NOT strap someone down that *tight* if they are just injured...

(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/1971122e.jpg)(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/19b94ce7.jpg)

when you live in aruba and there´s an unsolved case against you, is it allowed that you leave the island, along with your family and live somewhere else?
i think thats very strange. what if the vandersloots take off? under which jurisdiction
will they be when they leave the island? and could that change things for the VdS? just thinking.
I dont trust politicians that much. especially when they all of a sudden sing another song.
i am pretty sure joran asked for police protection while interrogated at rotterdam this week.
i know i would if i was in his shoes.

Shape of the nose looks totally different to me.

Debra  ::MonkeyWink::

I believe they were wearing the mask and outfit while looking for foresnic evidence.  I hardly think if they found a body at VDS they would take it out through the front door.

Debra Who is this in the pic? This is the same pic that I asked about not to long ago... ::MonkeyConfused::

Thanks for the insert Klaas...let's see...insert...*happy, I'm in control look*...big photo...*on shit!, I can't believe this look*

I don't know about the one on the left but Pearl at BFN found a photo album I believe it was at Webshots.  The one on the right was in it and was apparently with a group of tourists including a large number of girls. 

Name may have been "tony" or something like that.

Someone else will recall this far better than I.  Anyway, he does not seem to be involved in anything other than his group.

The one on the left looks mean to me.

.

Even when Joran was first released from KIA back in September 2005 the judge ruled that he could travel wherever he wanted to.  First he said only Dutch islands or the NL then he changed it. 

thats not a good thing  ::MonkeyNoNo:: not good at all

Well, I guess they can try!   ::MonkeyHaHa::


But we won't go away or stop talking about the cow.   ::MonkeyNoNo::


 ::MonkeyWink::

.

The one on the right is the one I'm talking about....awhile back We were discussing the pics from C&C and I saw this pic of the guy on the right and wonder just what He was looking at I wondered if it was Natalee He was looking at.....and who He was....Is Debra saying they are the one and the same and if so who is it....They look pretty much like the same person to Me. MO ::MonkeyConfused::

you know what i think is strange too?
i the very beginning, a friend of joran said a cellphone from him was stolen.
since then i never read anywhere if they investigated that (i may have overlooked this) but even if the phone was stolen, they could still ask the provider for info and details.

Exactly,joran admits to just enough to get him a month or two in a mental ward.I'm just afraid aruba will think this will pacify all of us nosey Americans.Yeah,from the tapes we DO get to see the really evil side(although I doubt that is joran's most evil side)and joran is/was exposed for the monster he is but what good is that doing if they aren't ALL uncovered for what they are,for what they did?

The one on the left is Mark Purcell Jr.

And in his PV he said he told Freddie about it being stolen but didn't report to the phone company.

'Then Joran telling Freddie the HI and Fisherman hut stories.

What is Freddie?  The designated witness maybe?

Strange indeed.  Joran's friend Sander Gottenbos gave a statement to ALE.  Sander claims his cell phone was lost/stolen at school on 5/30/05.

maybe it shows a bit about dutch mentality that we even have this saying.
leaving a cow to die in a ditch for the reason that it is old is a cruel thing to do.

but there are also sayings discouraging cover-ups, but i can't think of one right from my head  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Correct....that would be Sander Gottenbo's phone.

Since he's the topic for the moment, just found this interesting.


Christian Porn God's Interests  
General Love to bartend espeically love the bar-tending to me and my drunken needs. I live on an island so swimming is an everyday event. I like to chill on the beach in the middle of the night (it's just not so hot when the sun is gone). I also enjoy not being able to speak any other language besides english (the Queens language). In that manor I am your typical american who is perfectly comfortable letting others cater to my needs!!! I also love to raise a rukus but there is no one on this island who will get immature from time to time, just to f*ck sh*t up old school style with. Damn I miss being in high school and not caring about the world around me.

Myspace Link (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=14761846)

His profile pic still ticks me off.  :smt091
 

Thanks Pita! The so called married gay guy...well that's what one of His friends called Him on His MYspace!

ACKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ::MonkeyEek::

LIFETIME'S GET OUT OF THE COLD SWEEPSTAKES
ENTER BY FEBRUARY 15, 2008
Enter now for an escape to Aruba.  Grand Prize: A 5-day/4-night trip for four (4) to the Radisson Aruba Resort & Casino in Palm Beach, Aruba, consisting of round-trip coach air transportation from major airport near winner's residence in the U.S., Plaza Club ocean view double occupancy accommodations (two rooms/ 2 people per room), three (3) spa treatments for winner and each guest during the trip.

http://www.spaflyer.com/2008/02/spaflyer-saturd.html

 :shock: :shock: :shock:


Thank you, pita.  I didn't know that.  Is this the one who was arrested for Ecstasy and his mother had some excuse that he needed it for medical or some such reason?  Bartender at Moomba Bar very close to C&C?

Yes this pic of his says it all....

(http://b4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/00148/42/61/148421624_l.gif)

Well...with no tourists coming...they have to get people to rob/rape/kill there someway......

I'm going back to my corner with face to wall

vms,

I wonder if it is true he sells T shirts with that on them?  I have never seen something like that about a victim before either.  What kind of person would even think something like that!

Well, obviously this person.  And Joran.

.

I know he bartends at Moomba's but I don't know anything about an arrest.  Moomba is on the beach next to the Holiday Inn.  It's a bit of a distance from CnC's.

That's how it should read.

I agree. It is unbelievable that someone would even think of something like that. I will never understand it.

Yep!

Oh, so it has to be true he sells that on T shirts because it has the sizing information on the sides of the hateful design!!!

Anna - I'm no fan of MPjr but I believe that image that he has on his Myspace originated from one of the old Dutch satire sites.  The same site that had that photo of Joran in a jeep with bones on the ground...remember that one? 

I'll try to find a link to the site.

Look right under the screenprint it says click here to order.... ::MonkeyShocked::

Anna...there was a pic of Urine wearing that shirt posted here a few days back...I don't know if it is real or photoshopped

I think it may be that he took the pic from tshirthell.com because he liked it.  :sad:

OMG Rob, lol. Could you please hack the lifetime tv website and do that on there please? LOL!

The shirt was available at one time, however, it is no longer available.

Unavailable Shirts

124 HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS AGREE - VIVA ARUBA
http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=503

We are sorry, some of our items are Limited Editions, which
we only sell for a short period of time. We are no longer
selling this item and don't know if it will be back.

Each year in December we bring back some of our Limited Edition shirts for our members to purchase. Sign up to be a member (it's free) and you will have an opportunity to purchase Limited Edition shirts before the public does and before they run out.

http://www.tshirthell.com/search.php?search=123+out+of+124&Submit.x=9&Submit.y=5

NEW FRONT PAGE POST:  ::MonkeyHaHa::

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/02/10/natalee-holloway-joran-van-der-sloot-i-was-high-on-drugs-during-de-vries-tape-yeah-sure-you-were/

Natalee Holloway: Joran Van der Sloot … “I was High on Drugs During De Vries Tape” … Yeah, Sure You Were

(http://scaredmonkeys.com/fun-images/Joran_VDS_Stoned_small.jpg)

Rob
Sorry to interrupt you, but Debra just emailed me and said she was unable to get back into the forum right now but wanted you to have those photos she posted.  Wonder how she got my email?  Strange.

It appears it did sell for a while
http://www.tshirthell.com/store/error_message.php?product_disabled
We are sorry, some of our items are Limited Editions, which
we only sell for a short period of time. We are no longer
selling this item and don't know if it will be back.


Each year in December we bring back some of our Limited Edition shirts for our members to purchase. Sign up to be a member (it's free) and you will have an opportunity to purchase Limited Edition shirts before the public does and before they run out.

Use your browser back button to return to the previous page.

Hmmmmmm

lol Pita :P

Lala's - check your email when you get a chance  ::MonkeyWink::

We think alike!!    ::MonkeyHaHa::

Oh, yes, I remember it well, Klaas, because I was stunned.  Had never seen anything like it, making fun of someone's death.  In fact, I don't think I will ever forget it.  Page after page of stuff like this on the T Shirt.

Anna - I found the website and i don't find that particular 123 of 124 pic but I did find all the other horrible and some sexually explicit, so I won't post the link  ::MonkeyWink::

Ah, but much closer and within easy walking distance from where Joran says "Daury" launched a boat.  I see. 


 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Oh, I know exactly the site you are referencing.  I don't EVER want to see it again, Klaas.  It has some things about John Gibson on it and they think he is from Alabama for some reason.  He is from Calinfornia, haha.

Anyway, it's one of the meanest things I have ever seen.  I know some of you have followed crimes for a long time and know that this does happen but it was a real eye opener for me.

But you are right not to post a link to it, Klaas.  No one needs to see that trash in my opinion.  It should have been removed and the ISP provider should have cancelled their account in a more kind and just world.

.

Could have fooled me.  Recon it didf?  Sure does not look like a pic of the man I got.  He had on a different countenance as well.  Those people do morph.       jack b

In some of those tapings, he isn't even smoking.  I can't recall exactly how many days he told the same story under different times and it never changed.  He is not talking to his mommy now and I for one am just not buying the pot defense.

I wish that Patrick didn't give him the pot until after he blabbed.  But then I guess he would say he was an addict in the throes of addiction of some sort and had to say that to get his fix.

But there is a couple of clips on that tape where I do not think he is smoking anything at all and the blathering is just the same.

Lame.  He thinks he is so clever and believable.  And I was shocked that mobs were looking for him.  That alone should tell him how well he is believed.  Haven't seen anything like those mobs in a long time.  The Hillside Strangler I think it was is one who was apprehended by a mob when someone recognized him from a sketch or photo.  They beat him up and called the cops.

Wouldn't do any good to call the cops on Joran apparently. 

.

The morphing of people in Aruba my be caused by years in the sun and drinking too much.  Plus I imagine sweating can make their body weight fluxuate up and down daily, LOL  ::MonkeyHaHa::

AGE PROGRESSION = 1YR FROM NOW - fatter and a little less hair  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/JoranFat.jpg)

comment by Geert Wilders political leader of PVV
this party has 9 seats (out of 150) in dutch parliament 2nd chamber (compare with house of rep in congress)

my take:
i disagree with most of his issues apart from his stance on aruba/antilles/natalee - this party is the only party who speaks out. if there were tomorrow elections i think a lot would vote for him if he made aruba/antilles/natalee an issue in his campaign.


http://www.geertwilders.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=5&Itemid=103

I posted that 123 out of 124 students pic twice now,I found it posted in a dutch forum from July 2005.

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Posted today, at BFN, by LegallyLex:

Hi everyone!

 I had a 1 minute telephone conversation with John this morning.  Yesterday Tim of FOX news spent the day with the Persistence.  (This being done to hopefully find some corporate sponsors to help so there can be a continuation of the search).  Tim told John that this would probably air tomorrow evening. John said that Tim spent the entire day on the boat.   I want to confirm, but am assuming it would be on Greta's show.  If I receive more information I will pass it on.  Also, today, a Dutch news channel is spending the day with the Persistence.

Cool, thanks for the info Buckeye!

 ;)

Thanks ******* - like I said, I'm no fan of MPjr but I thought that pic originated from one of the Dutch satire sites. 

Thanks!  Do you know if DeVries has/had a show today?  I know he doesn't have them every Sunday.

Bump KJ was waiting for a video from Holland before she arrested JK2? No evidence against the two innocent men but there were still arrested and detained for 10 days?
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b125/Debzie_/mypics/36335e76.jpg)

that's is really great news!! not known which dutch network??
very important because i seem to notice dutchies like the really funny parodies/jokes and forget where it is really about.

Wouldn't do any good to call the cops on Joran apparently. Anna, I read that he has police protection ... same thing would happen here.
He has not been charged with anything and he is not an escapee from a prison.
We live in civil societies. If the same set of circumstance happened here, you would not find me in any mob looking for anyone. I would express my opinion, but to go into the street, not me. And that would go for a person living next door to me.
I think the mob thing is unusual for the citizens in Holland also.

I do not know what Dutch channel.  Sorry.

I think what Teresa Croes is saying here is this:

#1  She didn't get back to Aruba until 6/6/05 therefore did not control those first 8-10 days
#2  She questioned KJ about the 3 boys and why they weren't detained.  KJ gave some reason pertaining to waiting for video equipment (I believe) from the NL because they were going to video the interrigations.
#3  TC also questions why the security guards were detained

Sounds like TC would have done the job.  KJ is in on the coverup IMO.

*******,

Where did you get that from?

Dompig saying that Deepak got nervous when a search was mentioned and then Jossy printing it, well Horse Puckey. I thought that Dompig was going to solve this when he first came on board. He dealt in rumors and gossip and put forth his ideas as fact. I think he was in on the plan to get Beth to destroy her credility
in the MSM with some of his ideas. I can't think of one thing Dompig did to move towards solving the case. he liked to talk, that's all. 

Is Joran van der Sloot guilty?
* yes
* yeah!
* indisputably
* unquestionably 

VOTE

Show results
yes   1,000 (25%)
 
yeah!   1,000 (25%)
 
indisputably   1,000 (25%%)
 
unquestionably    1,000 (25%)

 ::MonkeyLaugh::
 
O.K. I got the idea from Fok!

So that really is a pic of Mark Jr.?  What are the chances he had contact with any of the MB teens?

Well since he works as a bartender at Moomba's pretty good chances he ran into some of them. 

(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/1971122e.jpg)

no, he is flying back home today
he has a show i believe approx. 16 times in the year. mostly 8 in a row, then a break and another 8.
or depending an a major under-cover operation (like natalee) he makes an special
he gets a very large budget from Endemol (media production company) and he can spend it they way he wants, no questions asked about the content/subject which crime.
then Endemol sells the program net SBS6, the tv network.
Endemol also sold to ABC and a network in Belgium (south of the Netherlands, have of them speak dutch).
but i am sure Endemol will also sell the other countries, the UK, i am almost sure.
important for Endemol that they sell the program ASAP, of course they know that because the program will grow old quick due to the new developments since last sunday.

on his site his editors put news stories and he writes at least a weekly column depending on whatever is in the news.
of course now he wrote almost a daily column.

http://www.peterrdevries.nl/ < dutch
http://www.peterrdevries.com/ < his columns are not translated in english unfortunately but they are for dutch audience to keep them awake and outraged about the crap the Van Der Sloots come up with and accuse him of.

Someone named SocialDisorder posted this on July 12th 2005 at FOK from tshirthell.com
http://www.last.fm/user/SDisorder/
http://forum.fok.nl/topic/723833/3/50
-----------------------------------------
(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/7677/sickxl8.gif) (http://imageshack.us)

Thanks caesu!

It would be devasting if the search had to end due to lack of funds.  They've come so far.  I just copy and pasted the Persistence's blog from Feb. 8th and put it in a bulletin and sent to everyone on my friends list.  I also put a link to the blog.  I only have 719 people on my list; can anyone think of any other way to get the word out and get some funds comeing in?????

HELI POSTS AT RU>>>
I've been waiting for some indication that ALE has begun to look at
storm drains on the streets between the Marriott Hotel beach and
Joran's house -- along any route he may have taken.

If he spoke the truth about what he did with the shoes, there's always
the outside possibility that one or both could have become hung up
somewhere in the drain system and be retrievable. Who's to say
whether there might not be something of evidenciary value on them
even now if they were found.

The mere finding of them in that location, would add to the case,
although only in a circumstantial sort of way. Why chuck them in the
storm drain system? And I don't believe it's because of blood evidence.

GLENDA/JULIA's reply>>
What drain system. hehehe...  There are no drains or manholes in the streets. we took every route he could have walked and no drains or manholes. He could have pitched them in the pond... But that was drained and dredged.

Well, pretty much the entire world is reading at the FP site as well as here..Maybe a story on the FP would help too. Just a thought..We could bombard the news media with  this info too.  How about me calling the local networks here in Alabama and asking if they are interested?

Google that user name and I'm sure you can come up with a name. Perhaps Josh in FL??

http://www.eurooutcasts.com/about.html

   Note they have the shirt in up tosize 5XL. Guess to fit Sr. ::MonkeyLaugh::

mob thing is unusual what happend last week in Drachten, Friesland.
next day JoHan, got beaten up by a friend, because JoHan wouldn't talke to him. strange.

sometimes dutchies do get outraged.
for example when Pim Fortuyn (2002) got killed just for an election and he was leading in the polls.
riots mainly in The Hague.

also when producer/director Theo van Gogh got butchered on the street by a muslim terrorist (2004) people where outraged. some nutcases burned many mosques or muslim schools down and in respons some churches got burned down too.

but this unusual behavoir of course.

but there may some mentally ill dutchies who think it's cool the be a hero or become famous or think this is what the public wants and attempt an assassination.
often assassination of 'famous' people are done by nutcases - for example John Lennon.

Actually, probably this guy:

http://fotoboek.fok.nl/user/SocialDisorder/5/25

Caesu .. I think of Dutch people as being law abiding, same as Canadians in general terms. We do have social unrest the same as other countries, but it is infrequent that we take to the streets. There are protest marches on Parliament Hill, but mostly peaceful. I am trying to think of a riot or something like that, but cannot remember one. Most people I know email or call their elected MP's or MLA or others who are in gov't and try to get the job done that way.

Its a local Dutch coverup forced upon the Aruban OM's

If a confession in front of the Aruban interrogators and our own FBI and a taped recording of Joran confessing to basically the same scenario almost 3 years later won't cause him to be prosecuted, I doubt a pair of tennis shoes is going to help.

It would have been nice if they would have provided Beth police protection when she was there receiving death threats, being followed, and having her food urinated on by the locals.

    NOW THAT IS THE TRUTH!!!!!!!

Some of you want to think that this case is a giant disconnect between NL and Aruban authorities. I and Rob and many others have been trying to tell you from the outset, this is NOT so. Remember the Savior, Hans Mos?

The Dutch PEOPLE want Joran arrested (or worse), but the Hague will not even so much as debate the issue.

Remember that avds (the See-Through Queen) has family connections that go very high-up in the NL government.

The Dutch government is NOT, NOT, NOT on Beth's side here. She's hurting their investments in Caribbean real estate and economic development... and cutting their "profits"... I will let you all speculate on what commercial endeavors I'm talking about. ;)

Was this ever confirmed?

   Who would have protected her from the police?  I think Jug and then whatever friends or family she had with her were probably her best safety net!!!

im wondering who these high up relatives of avds are.

what joran is doing is obstructing the law.thats an affence in itself.

i meant offense of course

I certainly hope that the news story discussed in this news release regarding US interests has nothing to do ith the perceived lack of US government interest or action in this case... ::MonkeyNoNo::

Sorry about adding it here but one wonders after awhile about such things, right?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23098780/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23098780/)

anita and paulus somehow do not strike me as popular people.

   I too find it hard to believe that "Bullitt Bra"  has high up connections!!  To me those who leave the homeland and try to make it on the evil isle, can't do so in the Netherlands.  It's almost a like penal colony.....look at the ex-pats from US who are there, they're losers.....not there for the sunshine!!

It would have been nice if they would have provided Beth police protection when she was there receiving death threats, being followed, and having her food urinated on by the locals.
That was in Aruba. I was speaking of Holland and the Dutch population in general. I knew nothing of Aruba other than a place on a map until this case.
The Dutch in Holland are as outraged as we are here in NA.
 

agree, and this paulus... speaking in a soft voice... not much character, IMO.
a bit of a coward,a little mouse, with no wil of its own at all, thats my first impression.
they cant even controll their 17year old, thats for sure.

No

Klaas, can you do a side-by-side of him with the artist interpretation of the killer of Natalee based on the psychic who took some of Natalee's clothing with her to Aruba who worked with those 2 strange men.

Well...I Know how Klaas feels about making money on the T-shirts...but, could they be sold for a couple dollars over the cafepress price and the *extra* go to fund the Persistance and Crew?  or...have a box to check on checkout that you could mark when you buy the T-shirt...that says click here to add donation to Persistance, and add whatever you want over the price of the shirt...you get shirt, and make a donation at same time.

    It's really not a pretty place.  Scrub brush, seedy people, both tourists and residents, drug dealers every where you look.....like certain streets in NYC...you can just see them, yuk!!

     When they were filming there, two and a half years ago they did so right at the hotels, which have lush Palm trees surrounding them,  step away from the hotel grounds and its desert like, with slums!!

it is true the dutch want to see justice is done.
we don't like this hide and seek. if you have done something, be a man about it, step forward and take the consequences. we dont like cowards.

Sweatyrunning man:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Sweatyrunningman-new2-1.gif)



Sweatyflydown man:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/capta87b92480ed84807b7dgx3.jpg)

 Noangel, I don't think in any country, murderers step forward to take their consequences.  These are not honorable men!

Tylergal - you mean the Haunting Evidence show and their sketch?  The one that resembles Guido?

Isn't Steve Croes a nobody on the island?
 
If it was just a matter of ending the case couldn't they just say that Steve Croes murdered her because she was most likely alive when he threw her overboard?  "Poor "  Joran was just an innocent lad that panicked when a young pretty girl became unconscious, and he did nothing but lie because of his panic.  The ALE could have easily used this excuse.

While it very well could be Steve Croes we know there is A LOT more because otherwise they could have hung him out to dry.

While the convulsions could have come from the drugs. is it possible that an unconscious Natalee was carried and dropped, causing a head injury, that caused the convulsions.  Could Joran and Steve have shook her so hard trying to get her to awake that she convulsed from the shaking?  Like a shaken baby syndrome?

Joran may have know where the Gottenbos boys hid the boat key.  Possibly he and Steve used the Gottenbos's boat without their knowledge.

How come Paulus had no idea that the "boat" person visited later that evening ( morning)?


While Steve may have been involved that evening.  I have always found it hard to believe his story and arrest at face value.  PAULUS was involved in the wee hours of the morning and afterwards.  We know he is corrupt, he has let his son go wild, has little respect for woman, smuggles his son contraband in prison, is greedy, lies, and laughs when his son throws wine on TV, so calling papa and telling him what happened would be nothing to Joran.

Yes, please.  I was thinking there was something about the sideburns and facial hair...

thnx for the pics Klaasend,  i guess these portray him just as he is  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Sweatyrunning man:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Sweatyrunningman-new2-1.gif)





[/quote]


     OMG, too funny Klaas!!!!

Don't forget to watch Geraldo with Peter Vries tonight!

is it mondaymorning in aruba yet?

I am still behind reading and not on this page yet.
I have not totally researched this but here are my thoughts.
Please add quotes if you think my theory has substance.
Deepak said something about "if they find that s*it"
There was research on the computer about drugs?

Here it goes~

I believe they dumped household chemicals down Natalee's throat and I believe~
Daury = Drugs are really expensive!
Designer drugs are made from common things under the sink like Drano!

these guys did not have a lack of money

patrick saw joran win 3500 guilders at the table in the casina one night, another time even more.

im wondering if the joranstory is true, who would make a body dissapear and take the blame if it ever came out?
cant think of anyone except for the father.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/SketchMPjrCompare.jpg)

Klaas- I wish Red would blow up that fly open photo and put it on the FP, with the caption beneath "Paulus and Taco look like bookends, one with his fly open and the other looks like he can't afford clothes large enough to fit him".

heinous ugly peeps - UGH !!!!!!!!

No, it's still Sunday.  Aruba is on US east coast time right now I think or maybe central.  That means it's either about 6pm or 5pm Sunday night right now in Aruba.

Comparison of drugs ...date rape GHB versus crystal methamphetamine.

http://149.101.1.32/dea/concern/ghb_factsheet.html
Street Names: Liquid Ecstasy, Scoop, Easy Lay, Georgia Home Boy, Grievous Bodily Harm, Liquid X, and Goop1

What are the different forms of GHB?

    * An odorless, colorless liquid form
    * White powder material2

How is GHB used?

    * Usually ingested in a liquid mixture; most commonly mixed with alcohol

Who uses GHB?

    * GHB has become popular among teens and young adults at dance clubs and "raves."
    * Body builders sometimes use GHB for its alleged anabolic effects.

How does GHB get to the United States?

    * Because the drug is easy to synthesize and manufacture, local operators usually handle distribution.3

How much does GHB cost?

    * GHB is usually sold by the capful, and sells for $5 to $25 per cap.4

What are some consequences of GHB use?

    * In lower doses, GHB causes drowsiness, dizziness, nausea, and visual disturbances.
    * At higher dosages, unconsciousness, seizures, severe respiratory depression, and coma can occur.
    * Overdoses usually require emergency room treatment, including intensive care for respiratory depression and coma. As of November 2000, DEA documented 71 GHB-related deaths.
    * GHB has been used in the commission of sexual assaults because it renders the victim incapable of resisting, and may cause memory problems that could complicate case prosecution.5

1Drug Enforcement Administration, Club Drugs: An Update, September 2001.
2Office of National Drug Control Policy, Drug Facts: Club Drugs, May 2002.
3Drug Enforcement Administration, Club Drugs: An Update, September 2001.
4Ibid.
5Ibid.


***************************************



The drug made from Drano or paint solvent, etc., is crystal meth.

INDEPTH: DRUGS
Crystal meth FAQs
CBC News Online | September 19, 2006
Clandestine methamphetamine laboratories seized in Canada
1998    2
1999    14
2000    24
2001    13
2002    25
2003    37
Source: RCMP Synthetic Drug Operations

On Sept. 19, 2006, a task force looking into what's been called a crystal-meth crisis in Alberta released its report, calling for more treatment and prevention programs, as well as for tougher penalties for meth-related crimes.

The 83 recommendations also include more addiction counsellors in schools, a province-wide advertising campaign and more specialized police units.

Alberta isn't alone in dealing with the problem of crystal meth. According to the RCMP, 40 meth labs were seized across the country in 2004. The greatest numbers were reported in B.C., followed by Alberta, Ontario, Manitoba, Quebec and Saskatchewan.

Experts say that crystal meth is no longer just a western problem; it's moving east, with drug treatment centres in Toronto and Montreal noticing a recent surge in cases.
What is amphetamine?

Amphetamine (scientific name a-methylphenthylamine) is a synthetic drug that stimulates the heart and respiration, constricts blood vessels and induces sleeplessness. It was originally marketed as Benzedrine in North America in the 1920s and in the U.K. in the mid-'30s for suppressing appetite or preventing narcolepsy.

Amphetamines were available over the counter and quickly became a favorite street drug known as "pep pills" or "Bennies."

The United States air force used it during the Second World War to keep pilots awake on long missions. There were reports that it was one of the drugs used in "brainwashing" by the Communists in the 1950s, and it was also used as a performance-enhancing drug by athletes.

In most countries, amphetamine was severely restricted beginning in the 1950s and is available by prescription, in restricted amounts, for narcolepsy and to control weight. A number of chemical cousins in the amphetamine group are used in low doses for the treatment of Attention Deficit Disorder.
How does amphetamine work?

Crystal methamphetamine

Amphetamine increases the amount of dopamine in the brain. In very low doses, used for ADD, the amphetamine family stimulates the brain but actually slows down the patient, increasing attention spans and decreasing impulsivity. Slightly higher doses can cause decreased hunger and bring on weight loss.

Negative effects include disturbed sleep patterns and loss of REM dreaming sleep, hyperactivity, nausea, delusions of power, increased aggressiveness and irritability. Long-term negative effects, in high doses, can include heart, liver, kidney and lung damage.
What is methamphetamine?

Methamphetamine is a chemical variation, one that has a much stronger effect on the central nervous system than the original drug.

Methamphetamine, in low doses, can be used to treat ADD, narcolepsy and, for short periods of time, obesity.

In higher doses, it is more addictive than the original drug and has a greater "rush" for the recreational or addicted user, followed by increased agitation and possibly violence in some individuals.
How does methamphetamine work?

According to the U.S. National Institutes of Health, methamphetamine releases much higher levels of dopamine than the original drug.

It became a common street drug known as "speed" in the 1960s, usually taken in pill form, but lost popularity after a number of incidents that spread the warning that "speed kills."

"Meth" was not a drug of choice through much of the 1970s and 1980s. In the late 1980s, a smokable, crystal form was created, perhaps in Asia, and then surfaced in California in the 1990s. It has increased in popularity among drug users in the past decade-and-a-half.

The low-dose prescription form is known as Dexedrine or Desoxynl and is generally used to treat ADD. It is not recommended for patients with high blood pressure or with a previous history of addiction or alcoholism.

After it is taken in oral form, methamphetamine stimulates brain cells, which in turn initially enhances mood. The user experiences increased wakefulness and physical activity, and decreased appetite. For some patients, even low doses can be addictive.

With street-level and higher doses of methamphetamine, especially if it is smoked or injected, the user immediately experiences an intense "rush" (also called a "flash") that causes intense pleasure but only lasts a few minutes. Users can become addicted and dependent quickly, needing more and higher doses as the addiction progresses.

In street and high doses, methamphetamine causes irritability, insomnia, confusion, hallucinations, anxiety, paranoia and increased aggression. In even higher doses, hypothermia and convulsions can cause death.

When the body is stimulated by methamphetamine, the drug can cause irreversible damage. The increased heart rate and blood pressure damage blood vessels in the brain, which can cause strokes, or irregular heart beat, which can cause cardiovascular collapse and death. By vastly increasing the release of dopamine, methamphetamine appears to damage brain cells, eventually actually reducing the amount of dopamine available to the brain, causing symptoms similar to Parkinson's disease and severe depression, or both.
What is crystal meth?

Crystal meth is one street form of the drug, methamphetamine hydrochloride, which comes in clear, chunky crystals, which are then inhaled or smoked. It is also called "ice," "crystal," "glass" and "tina."

Crystal meth can be easy to produce in small, clandestine labs, sometimes in a kitchen or bathroom, by mixing a cocktail of about 15 substances, mostly pseudoephedrine (a cold remedy), red phosphorous and iodine, but also including ammonia, paint thinner, ether, Drano and the lithium from batteries.

Police say an investment of about $150 can yield up to $10,000 worth of the drug.

But the resulting drug is often impure and the manufacturing process can be dangerous and cause fires.

Crystal meth has become the most widespread and popular form of the drug, largely because it is so easy to make that anyone can set up a lab (instructions are widespread on the World Wide Web), but also because motorcycle gangs, which are becoming dominant in organized drug trafficking, usually sell the drug.

******************
Note GHB induces "sleepines" and methamphetamines are "speed" drugs.

  The picture on the right looks more like Joran's brother than MpJr.

you know, if anyone else did that they would have something against him for the rest of his life. nobody in his right mind takes such a chance.
i dont buy jorans story that he called somebody and the other person got rid of the body. i dont believe it for one second.
we are all digging too far into this.most of the times its right in front of your nose if you look for something. joran is not very clever, is father isnt (he flunk judge)

Thanks a bunch, Klaas.  I wonder if the lady who had this "vision" (or whatever it is called) could compare the two.  Is there a way we can contact her.

Yes, you are correct.  However, this is merely an artist rendering of what the psychic is telling the artist, not that there is any "body" standing there to draw from or on.

Nonesuche  - trust me, that photo of PVDS with his fly down is really scary when it's enlarged.  ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyNoNo::

I fear I'm with SB on this, I think the Dutch government is ensuring there is no justice in this case. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in a closed door off-the-record discussion with Peter de Vries, essentially the monarchs are said to profit from the large scale illegal activities in the Dutch territories, a crown doesn't make you above reproach.

Private Eye - it's obvious Beth can't broadcast to the world that our own FBI made the contact into the family to detail the confession occurred and Natalee was deceased. I try not to think about it, it upsets me so much.

thank you Klaasend for informing me about aruban time. grmbflllll too early to hear any news then.
im going to bed now,its midnight over here.
goodnight all!

Goodnight!  Sleep well.  Hope to see you soon.

HeHeHe....just dropped in to catch up and saw this and I have to tell you klaas, that I do not even want to go there!!!!! ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyNoNo::  ::MonkeyShocked::

I'm not sure if I even buy the beach story.  I do think if anyone helped him it was his father though.

This is what I can imagine happening.

1.  They drive up near the Lighthouse with Natalee or they go to the Sloots residence.
2.  Either just Joran or all 3 or 4 if you incllude Paulus attempt to rape Natalee
3.  Natalee tries to get away but they catch her and in the stuggle she dies, or she hits her head or her head is hit.
3.  That's when K2 leave.  Joran calls someone to help him get rid of the body.  Body could have been disposed in the ocean or in one of the ponds/mokos on the island.  Or the landfill.

Mark Purcell also has a good size boat.
Robin Holloway once told me that Mark checks out parts of Aruba for them on it .
 

I suppose it is way past their bedtime and most of our Dutch allies have decided to get some shut-eye, but I have been thinking of some of the things I have heard about Queen Beatrix in the past.  I am old as dirt so I recall back to the time she got married and there was a big hulabaloo about her Clauss (I think is his name) her fiancee having served with Hitler.  When the former queen abdicated the throne (I am thinking that was about the year of the Reagan-Carter elections, just trying to piece events together) there were demonstrations in the streets that she had arise to the throne with the former Nazi husband sleeping in the bedroom of Netherlands royals.  During that time because (why I am linking the Reagan era with this), I heard that Ronald Reagan demanded George HW Bush leave the Bilderbergers and it was mentioned during that time that Queen B had been a long-time member and supporter of the Bilderbergers. 

.
 

Mark Purcell also has a good size boat.
Robin Holloway once told me that Mark checks out parts of Aruba for them on it .
 

[/quote]

        WHAT?????

Thanks, Blonde, for that information.  More of what makes one ask WTF?

Absolutely and there is a lot between that "something bad happened," "disposed of her body" and where we are today and yet no more information from the pimps/pukes nor justice forthcoming.  Bling culture is a tight culture, designed to keep its members quiet and if they are not quiet, they suffer dire consequences.

    Exactly!!!   I didn't want to be offensive so I just said WHAT???   When I really meant  WTF???

YES I CLONED OUT his beard, I did a quick job thoughts now

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/1971122e.jpg)

Certainly postures in similar manner and the facial architecture and vacuous eyes look the same.

   The picture on the right could be the same guy,if the one on the right was taken right after he had a haircut.  Notice the side burns are longer (on left) and the hair is down his neck.  Guy on right is what you would call, "clean cut".

Not the same person......not even close. My thought when I first saw the two together earlier and still I say no way.

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: They both seem to be saying "doh." ::MonkeyLaugh::

  I believe there is a picture of the guy on the right where he is standing or on the dance floor...I remember a discussion, way back when we thought that he was watching Natalee....there may be a picture of him near her on the dance floor... I dunno, it was a picture of Natalee where the camera made her eyes glow...Some thought she had been seen with him???

My wife just took a look and in 2 seconds she said, no, not the same person, unless he got a nose job, its not the same person.

     I think that maybe they are watching a TV.

I agree, not the same guy.

NOPE - there is a photo of a marine looking guy standing on the dance floor and we don't even know the date of the photo for the marine guy standing on the dance floor.

Is Joran still hanging out at Grammy and Grampy's place drinking Kool-aid and playing Scrabble?
He can't possible be back at College...not safe for him, I am sure.
He must be getting bored being in hiding.  ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

Lots of interesting things from Mr. Van Nie's site that I am revisiting for our dutch friends at FOK.
----------------------------------
(Translation)
SATURDAY
He called Freddy Arambatzis, nicknamed "Locoman Pimp" and is 18 years old. Freddy has been arrested in relation to the case and Natalee 'Gang Rape "and is part of the' Gang ', Joran and the Kalpoe brothers. I did not know that we have a Gang Rape team had but 1 of the three girls who have been raped would have an indictment. The other two girls still-dare-not. Why not? Have we Aruba still a dark power that keeps everything under control or Pappa van der Sloot helped 'high level'? Certainly, the role of Pappa van der Sloot highly questionable and know more than he wants to say. De-almost - court is not very well organized. And imagine that this man still on the judgement would be trapped. I mean, his colleagues are often geitewollensokken tipoos and I think we get from the Netherlands only kneusje sent right to come here to speak.

http://www.renevannie.com/inhoud/kritisch/_kritisch2005.html

Discovery Times Ch is now called ID? What does ID stand for, and west coasters, where is it on the Direct TV station? Something about the NH case is going to be on tonight?

"Haunting "Evidence"....
He emphasized "his eyebrows" slanting downward
Long straight nose
Dark hair, straight and then wavy
Strong chin/Skinny legs....
(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/6de67b67.jpg)(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/73077511.jpg)

http://www.ad.nl/binnenland/article2040821.ece

Through translator:

zondag 10 februari 2008

"We try to live as simply as possible '
By PETER DE KNEGT

ORANJESTAD - The parents of Joran van der Sloot like to pick up the thread again. It says the mother, Anita van der Sloot, against the AD. ,, We try life as good and as bad as it is just as possible to tackle. We have more children, you know,''
 

(http://www.ad.nl/multimedia/archive/00142/van_der_sloot_142037h.jpg)
Paul and Anita van der Sloot, the parents of Joran.

Anita van der Sloot looks excited. When pruning in the garden pulls them out to the media last week amply paid attention to the broadcast of Peter R. De Vries. They told their son under the eye of hidden cameras what almost three years ago with the missing American girl Natalee Holloway on the beach of Aruba would have happened.

,, The media distort the facts and only one side of the story ever told. It is better not to say too much. Everything is still against our intentions explained,''says the mother of Joran.
Anita van der Sloot naročil the broadcast of De Vries which told her son that his father illegally a mobile phone in the cell had smuggled, as "terrible". She is sorry that she, her husband and Joran in the talk of Pauw and Witteman have taken their seats. ,, That was very stupid. That we must not do.''
After the broadcast Joran threw a glass of red wine in the face of Peter R. De Vries. Pictures of this were soon out.