Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

 :smt032

Oh ROBOTS where are you?

Yep San, that's how it starts... animals...

Yes,I am inviting them here from FOK. There are quite a few that want to learn about the case and I have been trying share as much info with them as possible.

Ok,It is on record you will eat a bug if Joran is arrested and Robots said he will eat spiders if they find Jorans shoes..  ::MonkeyHaHa::  ::MonkeyWink::

Somehow I don't think I have anything to worry about...

i dont know where my last post went, seems to have lost it.
ok, again:
croes said he does not want joran on the island anymore, but untill now there are no legal grounds for that (yet).

someone asked what if they let joran walk?
well, all i can say is, you obviously do not know peter de vries.
he s a pitbull.
no doubt in my mind, if he is under he impression hat justice is not done, he will come into further action and dig till he finds what he is looking for.
so i do not worry yet.
joran WILL stand trial.

I like that kind of confidence!

Isn't Angie going to run naked down the middle of the street?

Me Too Klaas! Third Time is going to be the Charm for Joran!  ::MonkeyWink::

I hope some of the call in tips are valuable.  At least if they get tossed into the cardboard box, Peter can play the tape and ask "what about this"?

Me, too!  I think y'all are doing really well with English.  Much better than I would do with Dutch I'm sure.  I appreciate your contributions.

So this testimoney of Bobby Cutts Jr that killed Jesse Davis
will this be Joran is a few months crying It was a accident

Bobby - Hides body

Joran - Hides Body

well,of course i didnt get that confidence out of the blue.
peter is a keen businessman but he also has proven in the past to work very thorough.
thats why i think peter had enough to put joran behind bars when he revealed the tapes. he did not reveal everything yet, IMO.
i am convinced that he has more evidence.
peter does not take the risk of having such an expensive operation going down the drain, i'm sure.
in the past he has solved crimes that were thought of as unsolvable.
our peter luvvvvs a challenge. if i were joran, i d quickly get that smile off my face....

As Nancy Grace would say "How to Look Guilty 101"

thanks all! you are all so kind!
peter said that probably 90 percent of the tips are worthless, but in the 10 percent leftover were very good tips.
we ll see...

Hiya Monkeys!!   :smt052

Thanks so much Dayhiker for your very kind words in the last thread! The credit for the comment about how great it would be to have Natalee brought home to Alabama for burial goes to CBB...she was the one who originally said that, and in my post I had quoted her comment to tell her that I SO agree with her about that.

Ty also PI for your sweet words in the last thread. I do so wish I could post more, so many times I see a post I want to comment to but it's just so time consuming that most of the time I just don't, but sure want to. Your comment was so very nice tho, I wanted to say thank you! And...please give a special hug to Beth when you see her next!!

Keep up the great work Monkeys! We ARE making a difference!!   ::MonkeyDance::

Just catching up.

Thank you Peaches, Carpe, PV and Klaas.

Janet

+++++++++++


Quote from: Peaches on Today at 09:07:30 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94X3TaqaXWo
JQK on Gibson up now thanks to Carpe!


Quote from: Port Valerie on Today at 08:36:10 PM

Gibson: what else do they need to make an arrest?

JQK: Nothing else. (Reprise of events) It's clear that he did not want the body found. You have to think he was responsible for her death.

Gibson: what about Paulus?

JQK: It had to be someone he trusted.

Kimberly: And who was a lawyer ...

JQK: The father brought him the cell phone in jail ... The father could take a lie detector test but it doesn't seem he's saying anything.

Gibson: why don't they talk to the father? Preferential treatment because he's an insider?

JQK: Law enforcement obviously knew something the day after she disappeared -- they asked about seizures.

KG: When will there be an arrest?

JQK: They're pretty slow down there.

Gibson: We'll be following and when it happens we''ll be there. Thanks, John.


Quote from: klaasend on Today at 07:44:18 PM

Decision about Jorans arrest not made untill wednesday
http://www.nu.nl/news/1431239/10/Beslissing_arrestatie_Joran_uitgesteld.html

Aruban OM says the decision about arresting Joran will not be made until wednesday. The courts gave Jorans attorney until wednesday to make his "vision"about the case clear. Other information about the decision made earlier are not true.

Thank God somebody is looking at the tips.  Who knows what aruba's been doing with any they may have received. 

Waving wildly at GabbyG!  Nice to see ya! ::MonkeyDance::

thats 350-500 good tips!!

If Joran stands trial it will be a manslaughter charge only.  At the very least he will be convicted of mistreatment of a corpse.  In Aruba that's about 6 months...I say the judge will give him time served.  Anything short of a murder charge and he is home free. He only confessed to the disposing of a corpse...that is all.  Remember he claims Natalee died by accident...drugs or not..he didn't mean for her to die. That is not justice...it's a band aid.

this is totally off topic, sorry for that and i will try to keep it brief:
you all know what i just do not get? all those girls with joran on pics.
i asked this girl living nextdoor to me, she is 18 years old, and quite alooker too, what her opinion is on jorans appearance.
she referred to him as porgy pig with piglike eyes, not someone she keen on dating.
she said she thought he is lazy, because he is quite chubby, and that for a boy his age, who should be sporting a lot being so close to the sea and all.
well, we all know by now he does not have a character that blows you away, i just dont understand it. the boys at my sons school all call joran a loser.

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

Sue I was watching his testimony this afternoon...he is a sick SOB too..I hope he fries...that crying act with no tears just isn't very convincing!!  He and URINE at scum!!

Maybe they need glasses.  My teenager didn't find him appealing in the least.  Then there's that wonky eye......

All he needs is one good tip....if anyone can get the goods on this POS I think Peter can.....and WILL!!

if he is still in hiding? well, if he is not the most stupiest person in the universe, he is.
i do not believe he can walk the streets safely in holland.
they would probably not kill him, but beat the crap out of him? yeah!

if i am correct peter or members from his team also read ScaredMonkeys.

Well I know I for one love to hear from you, and you don't always have to post and follow up, so when your reading and have a thought, type it, post it, and go about your daily routine while it posts:) But either way, it is comforting to have you read with us if nothing else!!

well peaches, maybe that wonky eye is the reason he has such a twisted look on values. ::MonkeyHaHa::

I'm having a "vision" of Joran right now. It's not pretty.

Yes,One good tip or one big finding will end this all in a heartbeat!!!!!

Since we know how arrogant he is...it wouldn't surprise me to see pictures of him at some club..in fact, I hope he does decide to go out and someone kicks the crap out of him...his fate is sealed in one way...he will never EVER feel safe again....no matter where he goes...he's better be looking over his shoulder!!

Hello, Joran is not even a suspect. He was cleared by a Dutch Judge, released as a suspect, and the case was closed in December.

Any vision of Joran ain't pretty.

I hope so... ::MonkeyDance::

the perfect crime doesnt exist so keep your hopes up. you have all done one hell of a good job so far.

or one person on that frigging island of hell to speak up....perhaps after the cowpoops lose their case they will think about going for the reward and speak out....they are going to have to pay those attorneys one way or another!!

Maybe he should post Clive, the bartender's picture, and see if anyone in Holland can find him. 

They are just saying that because they eat them anyway.   LOL

Also:  That bunch would make excuses for the Sloots if they saw the actual killing of someone, and may have.  Some of their own are involved, somehow or someone has some powerful stuff on them.  Something has got to be done or he will do this again, and it could be a family member while they are sleeping. If that family knows something, they need to come forward.   Jack b

WonderWoman changed her avatar to marzipan candy once in the likeness of newborn babies, and I asked her if that was hers and Deepak's babies.  She changed it back to the caped brunette very quickl. ::MonkeyWink::  I had had a couple bottles of wine that night. 

sunnyintx, i hope so too. that he will be a paria the rest of his life.

i a retty sure peters team is reading along, because they broadcast on sbs6 and sbs6 showed the website of scaredmonkeys on tv. thats how came i joined  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Hi San...wow that's the truth....I have always been kind squimish about blood, guts and gore...but I don't think seeing urine  with his heart cut out....would bother me one little bit...

Hey Sunny.... I have always like John Q Kelly when he gets that spark in his eye....
I would gladly eat a bug to see the sporters azz locked away!!!
Oh, and remember when it would not let us type his name as URINE???  ::MonkeyWink::

and here I was giving ******* all the credit   ::MonkeyHaHa::

an extra problem is that so many aruban are related.
damn inbreeding  ::MonkeyConfused::

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

I remember that night Tyler.... I think that was the night that the corkscrew pushed the cork down into my wine bottle and everyone was giving me suggestions as to how to get it out...
That was soooo funny when you asked her if that was her and Deepak's babies....

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

Good idea Buckeye.

I saw him too Sunny... what really pissed me off is when he was crying about how he always needed to call Jessie when things were going bad and he wished he could calll her now....UHHHHH maybe ya shouldn't a killed her .... YA THINK!

hahahaha....drink wine more often!!

Here's how I see it Lalas. Joran has painted the Arubans and Dutch into a corner. He has given them all they need to prosecute him. If they don't Aruba can expect to get hammered for the next 10-20 years as being a corrupt and unsafe island. I believe Americans will just quit going there in any numbers. Aruba will become persona non grata to many other countries besides the U.S. as well. ARUBA WILL BE TRASH IN THE EYES OF THE WORLD.

The Dutch have been boxed in by Joran. Aruba has put Holland right in the middle of a horrendous situation. While they would like to say this is Aruba's problem it is their judges from Holland working on the islands that will make the decision to prosecute or not. Up until now their judges look just as corrupt as the Aruban government and law enforcement. Therefore, like it or not, the Dutch system is on trial here. If they fail to prosecute it will give their government a huge black eye. If any thing good comes out of it maybe Holland will fix the corruption that has gone on down in Aruba, at least in their judicial system. Either that or Holland should cut off Aruba's money and tell the island to take a hike.

Corruption has become the key issue now. More will come out if they don't prosecute Joran and like Imnoangel and Caesu have told us, Peter deVries will dog them til their dying days if they don't throw Joran's ass in prison.

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE!

How cool! ::MonkeyCool::

yeah good idea, but he does not work this way.
he has his network and other sources.

Sounds like one of them fish that skin anything in front of them, unless you meant pariah.  Maybe that was perini.....well anyways one of them fish.     j/b

Imnoangel, allow me to belatedly say WELCOME! I am enjoying your input. ::MonkeyDance::

 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/PeterSlapJoran.gif)

didn't that make you want to just crawl through the TV and slap him!! ::MonkeyShocked::

We must be seeing the same thing Nimrod!  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

the majority of the people in holland do not know what you know here at scaredmonkeys.
but this is allready changing.
ministers can not interfere with justice.
but soon the people will start asking questions. and then it will come in de 2de kamer anyway.
then there may be a change. but not overnight.

Yes, the cowpile brothers know....

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: Peter bitch slap urine!! I love it!!!

Thank you dayhiker, glad to be in the cage  ::MonkeyWink::

Yep.... and peel his skin off his face....

Hi guys.  You got me thinking.  The tip line.

Joran cannot keep his mouth shut.  It's his ego. He brags.  I guarantee you he has told the story or variations thereof to at least THREE other people in Holland.  So the good news is that we don't strictly have to wait for someone from Aruba to come forward.  It's going to fall into place.

Might take some time.  But hell, we got staying power!

whahahaha klaasend, thats a funny one hahahahaha

I have no idea what the bolded part means   :smt102

I'm not even going to try to completely catch up, but just had to thank Carpe once again for the video links he so kindly puts in the cage! THANK YOU AND SMOOCHIES, CARPE!!!  ::MonkeyWink::

Hi Monkeys! Isn't BOR supposed to have a body language expert on tonight looking at Joran's confession?

i heard somewhere on television that all they need to hold him in jail again is the testimony of someone that joran told him of her the same story.

de 2de kamer is our parliament.

Do either of your visions involve water, electricity and unmentionable parts of Joran's anatomy?  Mine does.

Dayhiker, HI . . .

Right! Joran is forcing them to do exactly what they said they would not. They are trapped. That's what this 11 day delay is all about. He should have been arrested on the evening the DeVries' show aired - Sunday nite.

They don't want a trial. Joran is forcing them to have a trial. He should get his wish.... and Anita should get her investigation into the investigation.

This whole episode of not arresting Joran proves the point that the cover-up happened because of the government fearing a collapse of tourism and not Paulus' connections. The cover-up is out of the Sloot's hands. They are along for the ride and Joran got a free pass. All the Aruban Authorities wanted was for the Sloots to keep their big mouths shut, and they would all move on, even if it meant a temporary set back in tourism. They were going to weather the storm. Now it appears they have no choice or that's the end or tourism forever. This is a disaster for Aruba.

Everyone wonders why Joran is not in jail. It makes no sense to anyone and that leads people to think - CORRUPTION.

He's talking to Karl Rove right now about the election.   Yawn.

I'm anxious to hear what this expert has to say.  She's pretty good. 

Who do you think that person might be?

Freddy?

Wonder how many other people URINE told that he had never told anyone ......You know there has to be more out there he has bragged to.....
And hell yeah! We ain't going nowhere!!!

you are so right. he IS a bragger.
so students from arnhem or wherever, stand up and tell what he bragged about!

I am taking some joy in imaging Guido, Koen and maybe Clive, worried if every person close to them, is undercover.  Wonder how many offers of "helpers", deVries has gotten, on his tip line. Geesh, if I could sit in the office and look at him everyday, I'd work for free.

Freddy has too much to lose by telling what he knows.  He might be involved so I doubt Freddy will squeal on Joran at this point.  He was known to help Joran scope out females on the beach.

one of the kalpoes didnt say that much. bet if the pressure on hem s heated up he will talk. they obviously do not like joran anymore now that he tried to frame them.

Thanks...thought you almost went Spanish or something with the de(s).

Palus must have sit around and told them all how they were going to get rich off this girl since they had no body and no case.  Surely he was not stupid enough to premeditate a kidnapping of someone, etc., so they all could sue people when they began protesting and claiming the perps to be guilty.  I wonder how many law suits Palus, Anita, the Cowpies, etc have put on people over the years, with the help of those judges?  That would be a new angle.Joran with his book of lies, Depak's hollywood movies, and lawsuit they set up by screwing up the tape and claiming Dr. Phil did it and then Palus brillance in the coverup to be exploited for monetary gain
They all must be on some kind of dope to give them that type of delusional thinking.
Those people are sue crazy.         jack b

I read something on the FP comments about JVDS' myspace page so I had to check it out.  This is what I found.  I had to add my sentiments to some parts...feel free to add yours.    He hasn't logged in since 6/10/06. 

Joran

"Dutch pride bitchez !!!!!!!"

Male
22 years old
Aruba,
Aruba

Joran’s Blurbs

About me:
First of all, if this about the Holloway case I will not respond. I have been proven not to have any involvement.  Please leave me and my family alone.  Please get on with you life as I am getting on with mine.  Thank you Anyways, I love soccer, surfing, WOMEN, Aruba, I just usually like to hang out with my friends, play on my X-Box 360, and drink have a good time.  I like to go out clubbing on the weekends…..

Who I'd like to meet:

Ernesto Hoost, ( The greatest dutch kick fighter of all time )

......Hot American women   :gaah:
   
 Joran's Details 
 
Status: Single

Here for: Dating  (More like to choose his next victim!)

Orientation: Straight (that's not what Guido said)  ::MonkeyWink::

Body type: 1' 1"     ::MonkeyLaugh::

Zodiac Sign: Scorpio

Smoke / Drink: No / No     ::MonkeyRoll::

Children: I don't want kids    Thank GOD!  ::MonkeyDance::

Occupation: Student/ Player   (He forgot Murderer/Rapist/THUG)




Deepak Kalpoe however, has recently updated his page, his profile is "private" and I don't want to become one of his friends so I didn't go there.  This is the part I could view.
 
D€€P@K K@LPO€
 
    "Enough of the BS already....... Deepak K The Great One , There are two things you can do about it "Like It and NOTHING""

Male
24 years old
MIAMI, Florida   ::MonkeyNoNo::
United States   

Last Login: 2/11/2008
 



 
 
 
 
 

lol buckeye you have me crying from laughter.
its valentine day soon *hint*  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I just changed the channel and Jug is on Nancy Grace.

You're not the only one.

Pretty sure that's one of the fake Joran Myspace sites   ::MonkeyWink::

Thanks San!

Jug said he would take his name to his grave too and Paulus is the man.  He said he had no idea they would show up that quick and he was the most rude individual.

Nancy is showing Paulus running  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Jug said Paulus was obnoxious.

Jug Twitty is the man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Finally someone outs van der straaten and Paulus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Me too  ::MonkeyCool::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/Sweatyrunningman-new2-1.gif)

Klaas, can we have the sweaty running man again?  I cannot adequately describe that to DH without your help. TY

Jug just gave one of the best lines of the case:

"Yeah, I'll take his name to the grave, it's Paulus, I guarantee you that."

Calls him and van der straaten cowards.

Ask Jossy for a comment on "a good man."

Throw a scalpel in there for good measure. ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Peaches, LOL  ::MonkeyHaHa:: I must have been reading your mind!


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/AnitaBlouseScary.gif)

imo paulus is behind it all. but i might be wrong there, joran could have done it also.
i hope paul loses custody of his kids if he did it.

Jug said they've tried from the get go to give them a lie dector test and everybody says that is not an option down there.

Posted by Heli at RU:

This is not a verbatim transcript ~~ it's bits and pieces I could transcribe
as I was listening. I'll post the full transcript later, replacing this quick
version.

Nancy:

Why are they dragging their tail with the arrest of this guy?

John Lieberman, AMW:

They're giving his attorney a chance to file papers until Wednesday.

Nancy:

Jug, it sounds like another delay imposed by the Court. We know that the deadline was this week for the re-arrest, why extend it?

Jug:

They've got more evidence now than we've ever seen before, I don't know why he hasn't been brought back

Nancy:

At the beginning, you went down there, what happened when you got down there, how did they treat you

Jug:

After I saw the tape, it made it clearer what happened. The police knew she wasn't alive the second day, they asked us about epileptic fits, I knew somthing was funny. Joran told them something happend on the beach but van der Stratten wanted to cover his friend's butt and they covered every track

Nancy:

In the first week, they were asking you if she was an epileptic, which goes hand in hand with what he just said on video

Jug:

We know he's telling the truth.

Nancy:

I don't buy that a healthy girl, not epileptic, if she had a couple of drinks at a bar would die. He told that story long ago and they didn't put it in the file

Jug:

They put it in the file, after Beth gave a statement they didn't ask for mine until 2 weeks later, my friends were down there too, Dennis jacobs said they wanted another statement and tore the first one up. Get van der Stratten on tv. he told me if I didn't keep my mouth shut he was going to stop the investigation.

I challenge van der Stratten to come on here, they're all cowards, they could have solved this in the first 2 days.

Nancy:

If there is a coverup, why?

Jug:

Things like this probably happened there before and they were able to cover it up, but we showed up with a lot of media...I knew when they wouldn't help us look for her there was something bad.

Nancy:

What about this confession he gave to his buddies. He talked to this guy he thought was a dope dealer for days and days, he brought up the same story about being with her when she died.

Jug:

Whether D & S were there I don't know; I wish D & S would come out and say something now, what have they got to loose.

I'll take his name to my grave too, because Paulus is involved in this, I guarantee you. He was the most rude person I've ever seen, I'm a father too and if my son did something wrong, I'd stand up to it.

Paul was obnoxious, all we were trying to do is ask some questions, Beth stayed in the car.

We walked up to the house with a picture of Natalee and asked Joran if he ever saw her and he said, nope, never saw her before in his life.

I just know he stinks from all of that sweating.

I think Joran did and Paul is covering it up.  So do you think Anita has known all along?  Or do you think it has hit her yet?

Let me get this straight...Joran is not a suspect anymore but the 2 falsely accused black security guards are still suspects that have never been cleared?? Unthinkable!

You guys missed a good 15 minutes of Nancy and Jug saying over and over how Paulus is involved.  You GOT TO WATCH the replay of this show.  It is well worth it.  They have really made the point.  BIG TIME.

They talked about the first night, about the epilepsy question, about how they came to the restaurant and asked Beth to redo her statement and tore it up and he went on and on and on.

Jug is a hero here!!! ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

Klaas just blinded me....

Yeah Jug "Nancy let's have an investigation of the investigation"

Go Jug , go ...... ::MonkeyDance::

Jossy likes van der Straaten, I think.  Maybe I am wrong about this.

Jug said they went to crack houses and broke down the doors and Van der Straaten said don't do that.  He said Van der Straaten said they knew she wasn't there and Jug said yeah you knew she wasn't there because you knew she was dead the second day.

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::
And the great part is that this is the ONE TV show that they get on Aruba so the locals can hear this too.

Oh no, I fear they'll have to have yet another poolside meeting tonite.

I'm telling you this will implode! 

That's cause even big people lie sometimes...... ::MonkeyWink::

 ::MonkeyCool::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/JoranBobbleHead2.gif)

im sure she knows and knew it all from the beginning, peaches.

Yeah he liked Karin Janssen too.  ::MonkeyShocked::

Good point - the Dutch might find something on the hard drive of Joran's pc that they took.

This guy said if Joran is guilty of only disposal of a body he will only get six months.

This is exactly what Joran wants.

TIME SERVED.

Wow! Nancy is hitting all the balls out of the park tonight...date rape drugs, Paulus is involved, Joran has done this before, evidence on her body...she has done her homework this time.

Jug has done an excellent job. Nancy has let him say what needs saying.

I'm trying to give Jossy the benefit of the doubt and think just maybe he was fooled by people he thought he knew?  Not unlike Greta and inclining to believe Joran.

That's right Frijole! Nancy is having a good old fashioned Aruba bloodletting tonite!  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Klaas, I'm trying to get DH caught up here.  Can we see the pic with the barn door open and Taco Joe in tight shorts?

Jug is kicking butt on Nancy Grace.

Joran doesn't seem to know EXACTLY what happened after he left the "beach" to go home...Most likely, he left Paulus with Natalee.

IMO it was Patrick's brother that learned that his boat was used in the disposal of Natalee by that sparked the undercover investigation.

June 2007            Patrick van der Eem begins taping Joran in car

July 4, 2007         Innes Watersports (Perry-Patrick's brother in Aruba)
                         As of July 2005 not "registered" as a business any longer
                         "watersports"...banana boat, wave runners, etc.
                         Deep Sea Diving...."Wet Dream" boat

November            Jossy Mansur "looking into" this Wet Dream boat...
                         new info.

November 20, 2007      J2K rearrested...New "info"..asking about new names?

November 21, 2007      Patrick's brother's boat in Aruba "explosion"

Joran in jail 2.5 weeks

December 7, 2007     Joran released
Next day or 2 Joran bragging about how he "kept quiet"

Dec.10 or 12, 2007    Joran throws wine in DeVries face on Dutch TV
Next day or 2 bragging about this "show"/incident
Next day or 2 Joran brags to Patrick about this wine incident

When is Joran's "actual confession" date?
Had Joran learn that Patrick's brother had actually owned the boat?
Was he telling him what he wanted to hear?

dayhiker, i dont know if there will be lynchng involved but i sure think they would beat him up so bad his mother could hear him scream in aruba.

Wow - I think they might take the entire hour and cover this case.

Jug is saying he hopes the Aruban people step up and someone besides Jossy comes forward.  Jossy the only one with any guts.

Thata boy Jug, let them bastards have it!!!!!
 :smt068

 :2ukli: :2ukli: :2ukli: :2ukli: :2ukli: :2ukli: :2ukli: :2ukli: :2ukli: :2ukli: :2ukli:

imnoangel

Since we spoke of TBS, VanderStratten's offer to Joran, early on, is quite interesting:

 Page 156 (Joran's Book) , June 13 2005 informal talk with Jan van der Straaten.

Jan van der Straaten, head commissar of the police, talked to me after
lunch around 1 pm, informally at the police station in Oranjestad. He
said: Joran, I have known your father for years. I only want to help
you. I am going to see to it that you can go to Holland. That you will not
have to go to jail, but that you will be committed in a mental
institution. You only will have to tell the truth.
In the PV from Jan van der Straaten of June 13 he writes about this:
On my question to Joran if he can tell what happened after the girl had
fallen asleep at the Fisherman's huts, he answers: I called Deepak and
he came with two dogs. I think he raped the girl and done something to
her.
On my question where the girl then is buried, he answers: I think she
is buried next to the Fisherman's Huts, other then that I would not
know.
I propose to Joran to answer the following question with just yes or
no. I ask Joran if the girl was thrown into the sea?
He answers: No, I mean, I don't know.

I don't remember that one, lol  ::MonkeyHaHa::

This solves all the problems...convict him of that and no one finds out about the "other" stuff on Aruba. Kalpoes keep quiet and get big bucks from Dr. Phil. Freddy never talks and Paulus is never implicated. Sloots go back to Netherlands to family and it's all over. Now, come back tourists, we are one happy island again.  I said it from the first time I heard about this confession...I want to be wrong on this one. 

Klaas, "barn door" is a midwestern term for zipper - as in zipper down.   ::MonkeyEek::

According to Diario that boat was owned by Minister Booshi Wever.  Unless you can provide some proof that boat belonged to Patrick's brother I believe Diario.

Look I like Jossy, but he needs to explain the comment. I heard him call van der straaten a good man.

Maybe he was fooled, that's okay. But I'm only saying pressure Jossy to get to the truth. I don't believe Jossy is involved in any part of a coverup.

But I do think he gave van der straaten too much leeway, for sure.

"investigate the investigation" Jug Twitty

I actually think this is a quicker road to the truth than going through Joran.

Paulus killed Natalee. It seems like people just don't want to believe this is possible. But this is Aruba

It's a still pic of Paul, Anita, some fake forensic guy and TacoJoe.  Taco's pants are too tight and Paul's fly is open.  It's a crowd pleaser.  I know you've seen it.

Body language expert next up on Fox. They'll be analyzing 3 ppl, so don't know which one Joran is

I need a break...that queasy feeling is creeping up on me again...bbl.  ::MonkeyConfused::

BOR doing the body language thing now.  Nancy's moved on.

I believe it was Justice Thurgood Marshall who said:  The greatest EVIL in the land is INJUSTICE standing behind the badge of the LAW.      jack/b

McCain's on first--i can't stand that guy.

I think Joran is second.

Keep in mind this is a big photo op with his high powered American attorneys:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/capta87b92480ed84807b7dgx3.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/pvdszipper.gif)

Edited to correct first photo  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Body language lady said there is no real emotion in this man.  She is concerned because he is not even looking at the person when he talks.

www.spankjoran.com


have you seen this?

Are they talking about Joran?

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thanks, Klaas.

Yes we are Gabby...Good to see you again!

I just saw on dutch television that tomorrow evening there will be a documentary about corruption in aruba. they were on a boat searching for natalee.
hang on there monkeys, al the pieces are falling in its place!!

dayhiker: you are welcome
note: i do not think it will come that far,i think joran asked for policeprotection when interrogated this week, and he probably got that.

buckeye:
putting joran in a mental institution could solve van der straatens problems.
who believes a lunatic?
by the way, we dutch think with TBS doing a time is a piece of cake but i heard from someone on the inside that isn t true.
When on TBS you get a talk once a year, an evaluation, you re stuffed with medication, and they ask all sorts of questions. then when they think you are still not functioning well, they can add to the sentence.
so if you get TBS you can be in for a very long long time.

Yes--O'Reilly asked if she thought Joran was lying or not, and she said she couldn't say for sure.

YES!  ::MonkeyDance::

You, my friend, are a fountain of interesting information.  Thank you.

I agree with the body language person.  I have watched bits and pieces of the tape and what I have noticed is that Joran doesn't look at the guy talking.  It looks like he is in a trance at some point.  He stares out the window while he talks or looks down.  He makes sure he doesn't look up.

For some reason I just feel he is on to all of this.  I am not saying De Vries knows this and I truly believe De Vries is trying to get at the truth but something isn't right about this so called confession.  I don't believe he befriended someone and decided to spill his guts.  Like I said before Joran says just enough not to get himself in trouble.  He doesn't care about how he hurts Aruba with all of this.  So in his mind he gave an account as to what happened to Natalee and he gave a partial truth and that is he was present when she died and that's it.

You don't have to worry about seeing that Sunny...Urine doesn't have a heart....

Sad thing about this is the aruban people dont know what we know either.  They are still fixed on Beth and an insurance scam.  And thats all right with the Government.  Aruba has the whole Island pretty much whipped.  Pretty sad isn't it?  We have been waiting for a break like Peter to come along.   ::MonkeyDance::

I don't think anyone, including DeVries thinks Joran is telling the truth except for the part where he was with Natalee when she died and someone helped him dispose of the body. 

is that interview with jug going to be on the frontpage of sm? if so, i am going to post it to peterdevries. i can not see the programs you watch over here.

I definitely think he's smirking and trying to act cool the whole time. It's so obvious that he wants to brag about it, whether he's telling the truth or not. It's the way he turns away and smirks when the other guy asks for details, and then he looks smug because he knows. He's trying to act subtle about it, but he's really bragging while trying to act like he's not bragging.

Oh my gosh, did the "crew" look seasick??

That's because it's easier for them to bury their heads in the sand. 

hihihi buckeye, no they actually didn t. it was a small blue boat as far as i could see but only saw it for like four seconds

I'm sure it's been copied.  As soon as I see the YouTube I'll post it for you.  It will be here in the forum before it will be on the front page of SM.

watch for Carpe to post a youtube link.

I got 250mph and it played a song
 ::MonkeyLaugh::

Hey Buckeye,

June 13th 2005 was also the day that Julia Renfro told Jug and his crew that Natalee was going to be presented at the court house.

Now according to Joran's book - he is in a session with vd Straaten discussing mental institutions. I wonder if we had a second confession here and JR knew that and called Albert Groenveldt who was driving Jug in the Universal Air courtesy van. Then told them to go to the courthouse and Natalee was going to be presented, but Joran backed out again.

What time do we have for JR jumping in that van and sitting on the center console?

just a thought anyway

Bookmark this website.  This is where you will find all the You Tubes when Carpe puts them up. 
http://www.youtube.com/user/gensing7000

Page down once to the index of videos on the lower right side.

devries explicitly said he did was not under the impression that joran told the exact thruth. he is convinced there is more to this.

Someone post the Persistence link for imnoangel.

The Dutch poster caseu (?) wanted the TV station.

I think my point was..... ::MonkeyConfused::

Jossy Mansur is looking into the boat "Wet Dream" in November.
J2K are rearrested & the next day the boat blows up in an explosion....

(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/8951e852.jpg)(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/4771667b.jpg)(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc236/melbourne19/4ff0955c.jpg)

Persistence website:

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

thanks klaasend and peaches!

Rob

Quite an involved few days...hmmmm...

yes, thats the boat.
the program is called eenvandaag

There is a phto on RU of Karin spanking Jug with his britches down that would be neat to edit to be beth spanking Joran:)))))))))

Frank,  I disagree with your thoughts on Josy.  I think he has been extremely supportive and not manipulative in the information he has provided.  He may have believed and trusted Van der Straaten. As this case has evolved and changed, we have all changed our opinions about the cast.  Let's not slam some one that has assisted us, and supported Beth. He doesn't owe us a response daily, but I think he has brought forward information when he has it available. 

And my point is there is no evidence that boat Wet Dream has anything to do with Patrick's brother.  Also it's more likely instead of Daury Joran was really talking about his father.

Now...we aren't going to do this again are we?

I'll find a different one to do with Beth and Joran.  Beth wouldn't look good in that suit, IMO  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Why do they need someone saying they heard Joran saying what happened, happened.
Millions of people heard and saw him and how he said it.

WHERE is the Letter that Palus said he got from NH that came in from Arkansas?
   Coverup.

Palus never saw NH before?     coverup
Joran never saw NH before?     coverup
Why would they lie saying they never knew or saw her before unless they were hiding something?  Those people down there are into some kind of freaking something where they are unable to prosecute each other.
Joran never knew Steve Croes?  coverup
Joran never knew GVC ?   coverup
Why distance yourself from certain people?  coverup.

Steve Croes and GVC were very good friends. 
Depak bros knew both GVC and Croes.
Guido knew everyone as he was a card dealer.

Palus has a hunk out of his steering wheel in the white car.  Bet he handled it with bloody hands and cut out the evidence.  Palus may have followed Joran and the gang of boys when they took NH.  There was Guido, Steve, GVC, Freddy, Joran, Koen, Sander and the Kalpoes.
Palus and Vanderstratten knew all the boys and the boys knew each other. Vanderstratten needs to be publically horsewhipped for his part, at the very least and sent to live in a desolate land.  He has shamed any cop who ever wore the badge.  As for Dompig, the shoe licker, I believe his boy was unaware that his dad is on the take and was really trying to help the person he told about GVC.  He probably does not know what a cow chew his dad has turned into.  How could they go on to hurt hurt and destroy the peace of a family and destroy the trust of a whole people and cost the people of Aruba and Holland money that will never be recouped. Why the lies?  They are afraid of someone connecting them to each other. When the dots are connected, then the puzzle will fall into place.  What is hindering is the inability of justice to be given because of sins of the court.      jack blue

I don't believe the perry /patrick boat thing. Let's look at everyone who :
a.) has a brother
b.) brother was on Aruba
c.) brother has a boat
d.) no alibi for the night of or the next night of
OR:
Look at who confessed and who made many conflicitng statements
AND Who was the last person with Natalee.

Fecalruba!      

AZsunny,

I respect and value Jossy, I don't think I'm explaining myself well. It's because of that, that I am pushing him.

Like the times some people have given me support to hang in there. I'm saying, if Jossy needs to question some of his beliefs, do it now, now is the time, the momentum is there, and take a hard look at van der straaten and Janssen.

Beth, Dave and Jug have been spot on since the beginning. Investigate the investigation Jossy. Now.

It's not a criticism, it's a challenge.

Jossy is best positioned to write the book on Aruba. An epithet no doubt.

Gosh, that is fun! got him at 166 mph!!

FROM DILBERT'S BLOG


Fecalruba
Now I’ve done it. I’ve angered the entire population of Aruba with this comic on 6/14/06:

 

Man, did I get angry e-mail from Aruba when that comic ran. Apparently the Arubans, or Arubians, or Arubitarians – whatever they call themselves – think that Fecalruba is my way of mocking Aruba. Apparently they’re still quite touchy about the bad press when American Natalee Holloway disappeared there. If there are two things you could say to hurt tourism, they are:

1. When you visit, they might kill you and then not solve the crime.
2. The island and all of the structures are made of fecal matter.

Neither of those statements is 100% true of course, but the Arubatheenians are worried that tourists might come to think of their island as a turd-scented murder pit  when in fact it is quite delightful and pleasing to both the nose and the eye.

Now I must confess that my knowledge of geography stops just short of “tiny islands that are somewhere.” So I don’t know if they are developing nukes, or they have a crack team of hit men controlled by the Board of Tourism, but I no longer feel safe. I have this mental image of a small pod of genetically engineered Arubistanians swimming toward California like porpoises, all menacing-looking.

So let me say right now that Fecalruba is a totally different country from Aruba. I would never insult the fine people of….GAAAAK!!!!!

June 21, 2006

332 MPH:)))))))))))))

Frank, thank you for your clarification re Jossy.  I think he is doing what he can given he still have to live there.  As does his family. 

It's like Charlie Brown, he can either to be the hero or the goat. 

jackb, police needs another confession because if you confess something once, to one person, it hardly counts.
but if you confess the confession to another person, it can be and will be held against you.
you see, twice is no slip of the tongue.

 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

The vision makes my day. Thank you.

I bet he didn't wash his hands either...ewwwwwww!

Beth has been known to let her hair down occassionally, and for such a good cause she would be more than happy:::)))) But I defer to your taste!!!!!!

imnoangel

Posted yesterday by family of a crew member:

The Persistence will be on the Greta show tomorrow evening John tells me.  Tim spent the day aboard the boat yesterday and so far all is a go! This is great.  They are out today and the dutch news guys I am told are getting sick over the rail.... about 12 foot seas.... John said they are not doing well... I hope this doesn't deter them from helping! L!

Thanks Frank, I didn't understand your position. 

Private Eye - I'll work on it when it slows down in the forum a little later tonight.  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyWink::

Poor guys!  They should've gotten that patch to put behind their ear.  Break out the dramime and stay on deck.

whahahaha buckeye wont that be a sight LOL

226 mph and that's with a bad hand  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Correction 559  ::MonkeyHaHa::

dear monkeys, the time is 3:30 at night over here, so i m going to hit the sack. ::MonkeyWaa::
i do not know yet if i will be able to see the documentary tomorrow, but there will be reruns from 12 till 6 at night.
so i will keep you guys and gals posted on that anyway.
do not post too much or else i will be reading here for hours and hours untill i can join you all again. ::MonkeyWink::
sleep well everybody, read you tomorrow

Well, I have the whole family spanking Joran.  Top score 624  I'm putting that on my site.   ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Have a good night imnoangel

Nite!  I'll make sure when we get that Nancy Grace with Jug to point you in the right direction tomorrow.  By tomorrow it will probably be on the front page of SM.

Good night, sweetie.  Have some windmill cookies and milk for me.

Kat_Gram:  Sorry, I wasn't implying any boat connection with Perry to Joran...
It doesn't matter who owns the boat...(Sorry for my error) Just that info came from "someone" to Jossy about the "Wet Dream" and here's Daury on the boat.

The day after J2K are re-arrested & questioned the boat is in an explosion...evidence?

(http://www.vincente.nl/HTMLbox/files/telegraafsmall(3)(1).jpg)

did you guys hear about the blackberry blackout in the americas?
balkenende loves his blackberry.
he pretended to run country with it while he was in hospital for some feet-infection.

i hope he can find a pay phone for international calls while he is on those islands to stay in touch with his cabinet.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://www.digibieb.nl/content/blackb5.jpg)

http://www.volkskrant.nl/den_haag/article185882.ece

We have the " crazy " sentence too. It is usually reserved for those that are well, crazy. And who have been diagnosed with a serious illness, like paranoid schizophrenia or worse. It comes at the end of a trial and they can stay at the pleasure of the Govenor General for a long time. They usually reserve this type of sentence for the most extreme cases where the type of crime fits the " crazy" layman defintion of crazy. Well, these voices told me to do this type of thing.
Like kill some people because they looked at me when I don't want them looking at me. Not for sober liars and dope smoking liars.
Usually the person has been living a very bizare life and no one noticed or cared to help the poor ill person, or tried and could not get a thing done under our Mental Health Act.   

goodnight imnoangel, I look forward to your posts tomorrow!

Info came from "someone" to Jossy????  Are you kidding?  A boat has an explosion, Jossy is the Managing Editor of a news paper, it's NEWS.

Everything that happens in Aruba doesn't pertain to the Natalee Holloway case, lol  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Nite nite..I'mnoangel...sleep with the Angels...

I believe Greta is going to cover the Persistence tonite? 

If so (and even if not) I have to get horizontal.  It's been fascinating.  Good night.

Could the 3 judges be waiting for Joran to write his confession??? OK I am dreaming.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Greta has the Persistence on her show tonight.

OK...I am going back to improve my slapping the piece of shit Joran...can I aim lower and get more points? ::MonkeyHaHa::

Hiya Monkeys

I hope goon child feels every slap he gets   ::MonkeyLaugh::

Peaches I have some windmill cookies to have with coffee   ::MonkeyWink::

 ::MonkeyConfused::
I got him at 556 MPH. Got the " nice one " message. Gee, how old am I ?

Nite Peaches!  If you miss it we'll have a youtube I'm sure by tomorrow!

Thanks for the great memory Dayhiker  ::MonkeyLaugh::

I hadn't thought about that cartoon and letter in along time  ::MonkeyLaugh::

ROAD TRIP!!!!

You think I'm kidding about those cookies?  I love them.  They remind me of my grandmas.  Everybody loves their Grandma! 

We'll have to get together here when the weather warms up.  I spend most of my time freezing my choppers off.  But I know where to find ya.  Love ya, girlfriend.

Sweet Dreams Peaches...prayers for continued improving health...

Thanks, Destiny.  Hope you had a fabulous weekend.

See y'all tomorrow.

Night Peaches... you are in my prayers...Love ya sistah!!!

goodnight Peaches...sleep well!

Nite, Peaches! Enjoy Greta and get some healthy sleep!

It would seem if 40 million people bare witness to this video it would not be like one person hearing or seeing this.  The video is in the original form, I would think.  Do they not ever use video recordings to do last will and testaments?  They see the news evey night and millions of people see that.  They use video's and camcorders to track and trace and convict criminals, I would think.  They are just full of bull hockey.
      They are making the rules up as they go.         Jack Blue

But, he confessed more than once, always the same essential part. seizure, panic, phone call to Mr. X . Somtimes he confessed without a joint.
I guess when he lied when he was smoking it was because of the drugs and then when he wasn't it was because he was in withdrawal and needed drugs. 

Yes, it was.  I remember that and remember you talking to Tito about a week or so before that.   Great and fun memories during a tragic time.

They're damned if they do and damned if they do not and they have built this house of dominoes that is falling 1 x 1 x 1.

There has to be one rat in this nest that will sing and when that happens all hell will break loose. Trust me its coming. This slow motion train wreck is just beginning.

Jossy said Joran is still in Holland.

Justice Minister declares Joran "Persona non Grata".  Jossy said legally he cannot do that.

Jossy said people have apologized publically to Beth.  He said Joran admitted he was with her and he ordered the disposal of her body.

Jossy said it doesn't mean the Kalpoes are clear from prosecution.  He is mentioning what Deepak said in the car about if they find the girl he will get 15 years in prison.  Jossy said how does Deepak know that.

Greta doesn't think Joran is going to be arrested by weeks end.

Bernie said you can't be convicted based on your own statement.

Ted said there is a lot of political pressure.  There is some kind of admission that he helped dispose of a body.

Greta said Helen Lejeuz said it was a 3 or 4 defense and you can't extradite back based on that.

Jim Hammer said in his heart he cannot say he murdered Natalee.  He said he thinks we are still stuck.  Unless Deepak or someone talks.

Basically all are saying he had more to do with it then he is saying.  They will not be able to prosecute him.

Bernie said what he finds troubling is law enforcement and Greta made a quick comment and said what law enforcement.

Greta said what do the police know because they questioned Jug back in 2005.

Greta said if she were Natalee's parents she would be to my congressmen, my senator, my governor and saying you know we ought to do something these police officers if they knew something right after she disappeared and that's why they asked Jug those questions and they did nothing.

Ted said shame on them.

Thanks San!

Very long segment with John Silvetti on the Persistence.

At one point he looked as if he were reliving something with a fondness, almost a sweetness, like he had a fondness for that memory.  It was a look that is stuck in my head when I saw his expression.  It was a look like when a normal person would be recalling an old friend and something rather amusing took place.  At points, he did look amused, like he could not part with his best memory of the event as it was just so special to him.  That is what I saw when he was speaking of the event.  It was almost like fondness for a joke he pulled on someone, but he was holding back being amused as he was since he knew it was just not really proper and he had not seen how the listner would react.....like he was waiting for Patrick to agree how funny it was.
           Jack Blue

NBC/13 Birmingham will have an interview with Dave
 on the 10 o'clock news.

150 targets identified to look at by the ROV. Also, they are looking for skeleton remains or even clothing, besides looking for a container of some sort. Good luck guys.

Thanks Magnolia!

You know back in Dec. when all 3 were arrested I thought it was insinuated that Deepak needed to talk and then when they were released a comment was made that they didn't want (I thought they said Deepak) them to get away with just disposing of a body.  So could Deepak have been the way to dispose of the body? 

Excellent piece on the Persistence. Showed their sonar equipment and their search techniques. They go out every day and come in for six hours, then go out again. They're following up on the deVries tape and looking in shallower water. Joran said they "slipped" the body into the water, so the Persistence thinks it was probably in a container of some kind. Water sure looks rough out there. They've been there since Dec. 5. Really showed their persistence and their dedication to getting this done.

Yes it was very informative!

Yes.  These guys are all angels.

Working 18 hr days 7 days a week.  Not only are the seas rough but that is seriously strenuous work.  You see those cables?  You have to pay very close attention to what you are doing - dangerous. 

I'm glad we got to see it first hand.  Special hugs going out to each and every crew member.  God Bless you all.  You truly stand for the girl - Natalee.

Remember this:

Bones – while snorkeling on 7-6-05 about a “half-mile from the Marriott off Arashi beach Jennifer Fornaro discovered one bone in the ocean that she found “between 2 large rocks.” FORNARO describes the bone as being 3.5” to 5.0” long, larger at one end that was rounded “like a bone joint,” gray in color, and still had a “whitish tissue that was still meaty and flesh-like that was still attached to the bone.”

Damnit Greta should have mentioned donations to the search
I posted it to her on her blog i told her she needs to make blog
for donations to search

God bless each and every one of those good men;  150 targets so far is terrific news!  Very good segment.

Greta seemed a bit weary..

He is a very impressive fellow!

klaas,

Can I assume if I want to get help for the team on the water I should direct people to Texas Equusearch's website?

I caught the re-run of Nancy G, but is there a link to the Persitence story? What station was it on?

Hi Monkeys!

Sue.....She didn't say it but it was flashed up there to send donations for the Natalee Holloway search to Texas  Equusearch and then gave their website info.  She did listen...... ::MonkeyWink::

Yes, that is TES's request.  They want donations or help directed to the TES website.

http://www.texasequusearch.org/

http://www.texasequusearch.org/donate.html

Texas EquuSearch Mounted SAR Team
P. O. Box 395, Dickinson, TX 77539

Excepting donations for the search Of Natalee Off Aruba

A Monkey Media heads up ...

I talked to Beth today about all the recent events and she will be a guest on Dana's show this coming Wednesday on Scared Monkeys radio. Don't miss ... be sure to tune in at 9pm edt on Wednesday.

 ::MonkeyDance::    ::MonkeyDance::    ::MonkeyDance::

On Greta, Foxnews.  I'm sure Carpe will be posting the youtubes by tomorrow...maybe even later tonight.

Beth on Dana Pretzer!  Yippee!!  Thanks Red!

Thanks

Dave on NBC/13 Birmingham

Believes that the confession is true.
Does not believe that Deepak and Satish are not involved.
He believes that their involvement will come forward very soon.
He is talking about what happened in Carlos and Charlie's
the night that Natalee disappeared.  Says that there is
a back bar at C&Cs and that Natalee was steered to that
bar at last call.  He had a friend monitor that bar on several
nights in succession.  At last call guy would order two drinks
bartender would pour two drinks normally and would then reach
to a shelf over his head and pour a clear substance into one of
the drinks.
He was very disappointed that the three judge panel extended
the time for Joran's lawyer to argue the case.  They do not
expect a ruling before the end of the week, even though they
are saying Wednesday.
Dave says that common sense tells him that they put Natalee
in the water.

Please Everyone remember if You give a donation to TES for Natalee's search note on the donation that it is for the "Holloway Search" so that all of Your donation goes to Natalee's search....  ::MonkeyWink::

Thanks Magnolia!

 ::MonkeyEek::

Thanks Magnolia!

LOL I guess that emoticon does look like it has a "wonky eye", lol  ::MonkeyHaHa::

"Says that there is a back bar at C&Cs and that Natalee was steered to that
bar at last call.  He had a friend monitor that bar on several
nights in succession.  At last call guy would order two drinks bartender would pour two drinks normally and would then reach
to a shelf over his head and pour a clear substance into one of
the drinks."

Sounds like its time for an undercover sting by you know who!

Thanks to Carpe - tonights GRETA on youtube already!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhirWb_4obw

The Persistence segment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8GKU7VEcSM

yes i am another dutchie explaining why peter r. is really not going to let this slip out of his hands.
this is is his biggest case ever. he is not going to have his legacy tainted by a joran walking around causing trouble.

but of course the mess is bigger.

i had just a random rambling thought.
aruba might declare independence then the new president can legally ban joran from entering.
so then he won't be prosecuted on aruba.

and the dutch need to pass some special law or executive order to keep joran detained.

for life that is (TBS).
because he will strike again - psychiatrist with serial killer/rapist knowledge confirm that.

but then the whole ditch won't be uncovered ever...
aruba looses the tax-euro from the netherlands - they are already in debt.
the place will go down the ditch altogether and/or chavez grabs the island.

aruba talks about independence sincs 1986.
oduber and especially croes sometimes mention it.
croes said he didn't like his dutch passport and has been bashing through press statements hans mos, the antillen, the dutch)

no newspaper or newsshow talks about it. but i really don't know how they are going to spin this in aruba and the hague.
today i asked people if they knew balkenende was visiting the antillen/aruba this week.
few knew, but it is the most important visit in years - even without the VDS-disaster that is.

maybe nothing happens at all. but in that case i will be surprised.

Unfortunately, Carlos n Charlies is closed down and is being replaced by Senior Frogs.

It was the last part of Greta's segment on Natalee tonight - FOX cable.

Thanks!

is this put online somewhere?
haven't seen it yet.

Thanks Carpe! You Are The Greatest!  ::MonkeyWink:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyDance::

caesu - not online yet.  I'm wanting to see it too though, I missed it!

wow they couldnt take the heat so they got out of the fire

I thank you too, Magnolia.  This is a very important piece of the puzzle.

Even though its being replaced by Senior Frogs it could still have the same old bartenders and the same old practices such as druging innocent tourists....MO  ::MonkeyShocked::

Hi monkeys...I just made a donation to TES via paypal. Since I already had an account, it was quick and easy!! I wonder if Red wanted to put something on the FP that TES are in need of donations to keep the search going to get the word out to even more people who might not access the forum? Just a thought...

I'm thrilled that Beth will be on Dana Wednesday night. Unfortunately I will be traveling, so will be unable to hear the sh ow. Thank goodness I'll be able to check the podcast later!!!

It is my understanding that there is another one at St. Nicholas.  Remember baby beach, babylon places?  The southern part of the island.  Another Carlos and Charlies.
Wonder if Senior Frog is getting that one as well?      j/b

tuesday 14:00 dutch 8:00 EST
"question hour" in the parliament.

PM is out of the country
justice minister is also gone not 100% sure.

i don't know who will ask the question and who will answer them...

there is no leader.
i mean last week and still now. the whole world was looking at aruba and the netherlands.
WTF is going on. a weed smoking punk bragging about dumping an American girl possibly still alive in the ocean.
and he was still a free man probably smoking weed all day.

balkenende should have called a press conference for international press and explain HOW THE F*** this is perfectly possible in this country.

but he did NOTHING. and now he is on St. Maarten, friday Aruba and the MSM hardly has covered him being there.

i said this before last week but if peter r. wants too he can give a lengthy powerpoint press conference to all American and Dutch news channels and stage coup d'etat with American backing.

Queen is also gone by the way, ski-vacation in Lech, Austria.

That one is called Charlies Bar and it's more of a biker place, not a tourist place as much as CnC was.

http://www.charliesbararuba.com/

Wait until the shit hits the fan, then there will be a lot of press conferences to try and explain the unexplainable.

I think it is up at RU but I don't know how to bring it over.

  Yes, yes, yes.

excellent@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ::MonkeyDance::
here wrote that there was a dutch crew on board.

TBS can be even for life.
just every year broadcast the tapes to remind people who joran is.

Klaas, aren't they just essentially changing the name from Carlos 'n Charlies to Senior Frogs? Do you know why they are doing this? Could it be b/c of the case?

As long as the "pimps" are preying on tourists I believe the drugging will continue, it's extra money in the bartenders pockets and there haven't been any consequences for it so far.

thanks i read it.  ::MonkeyDance::
at least i know that it is tomorrow (today) so i just check what the news programs are having as their topics.

if balkenende was a proper PM he would go one full day on that boat.

I'll go look

 ::MonkeyDance::

They are moving the building and expanding.  CnC and Senior Frogs is owned by the same franchise.  I have no idea if the reason is do to the negative publicity.

maybe they got sick after smelling the ditch!

Heli posted her transcript but still no video.

I think they tore the old C&Cs down.

Actually, believe it or not ... back in the day Charlies Bar was quite the tourist hot spot. It was just a nice little hole in the wall bar. People would leave mementos of where they were from.

I am not sure what the place has become today.

I actually used to frequent the place quite often in my youth ... before I was banned  ::MonkeyWink::

Found this photo at their website.  Are you one of these guys, LOLOL   ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Charlies.jpg)

Thanks Klaas.  Thanks Carpe.

Janet

This is how I go to the Persistence blog.

http--nholloway.blogspot.com-

Hmmm, that could be a good thing...and good riddance!!  ::MonkeyDance::

Exactly...It is All a Game to Them...and money in their pockets....NO concern at all for the person that they are drugging...SAD SAD SAD!  ::MonkeyConfused::

::MonkeyHaHa::  Banned!  Come on Red, details.....please ::MonkeyDance::

Klaas,
Look in the index at RU under John Q Kelly On Speed February 11, 2008.

(http://www.eenvandaag.nl/videoimages/ec/10/2046a356.png)

http://www.eenvandaag.nl/index.php?module=PX_Story&func=view&cid=2&sid=33046&nav=33046,33045,33042,33040,0

(preview is included!!!!!!!!!!!!! - click on the photo)

From what I remember they are owned by the same company. All they did was change the name to senior frogs which is the same thing pretty much as Carlos and Charlies.

So it will be business as usual for the Happy Little Island...  ::MonkeyShocked:: ::MonkeyConfused::

I remember reading over two years ago that the southern part of the island was settled by those of the jewish decent who were getting away from the Natzis and they opened the bar and handed it down from generation to generation.  They took care of their own so to speak, and were very clanish.
The Northern part of the island and they are not on the same political link and they do not mix that well with the new breed of dutchies who rode in there and just took over, etc.  They know every fizzle that goes on in that part of the island and do not take kindly to outsiders.  Don't know what the score is on the younger generations there.  Like everything else, probably gone literally to POT.      LOL    Jack blue

Yeah, but I thought CnC was a rough place too, isn't that where Joran Van Der Satan got that black eye he was seen sporting around school?

she said corrupt at the end.

That's FOX, I thought we were looking for Nancy Grace.  Actually that one I posted on the front page of SM earlier today, the Fox one with JQK.

Definetly! They took off the monkey and added the Frog.

http://www.senorfrogs.com/about/index.htm

Thanks!

Thats where Joran said he got the bruise on his face. But coincidently he was seen with it the day after Natalee dissapeared.

So Sorry!  I thought that is the one you were looking for. ::MonkeyConfused::

Hmm, wonder how he got that??

Hopefully They won't have any patrons to support their New Establishment! Boycott Aruba!  ::MonkeyWink::

I am so thankful that Jug Twitty is once again letting his voice be heard.  This guy says it how he sees it and ... he sees a corrupt investigation that has denied his stepdaughter justice ... he sees a corrupt investigation that has been distancing a wannabe judge and his son from implication.

 ::MonkeyDance::

Janet

++++++++++

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,170678,00.html

Jug Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
September 28, 2005

TWITTY: ... But you know, I have a real problem with the prosecutor. Either she’s hiding something down there, or she doesn’t have any backbone.

VAN SUSTEREN: Which do you think it is?

TWITTY: I don’t know. I really don’t. I mean, I cannot understand why she can’t communicate with the family, I can’t understand why, you know, she doesn’t take and go back to the beginning and talk to the people that know the answers. There’s a lot of people there that first night. You know, why they didn’t take my statement until 33 days after? Why she will not admit — and this was one of the things we got in a heated conversation abut, in my meeting with her on August the 28 — why she will not admit she made a mistake in not arresting those boys the night after we brought them to them on a silver platter and let them go for nine days. Her deal was, We’re going to let them go. We’re going to try to, you know, be like catching a mouse in a trap. We’re going to track them. They got nothing. I mean, you know, they were going to tape their phones. They were going to do this. They were going to — they got nothing.

VAN SUSTEREN: And of course...

TWITTY: And she’s...

VAN SUSTEREN: ... no information.

TWITTY: Yes, she basically tells me, you know, this is the same thing as Van Der Sloot. You know, you keep acting like this, Mr. Twitty, you know, we’re going to quit. And you know, I said, Well, that’s a great attitude to have.

Klaas ... would you please change the year in my post to 2005.

Thank you

Janet

GOOD NIGHT MONKEYS
9:45 PM

press conference by our PM last friday:

http://www.minaz.nl/Actueel/Video_s/Video_s_persconferentie_ministerraad/2008/Persconferentie_na_de_ministerraad_8_februari_2008

what do you think looking at his body language.
is he tough enough to clean up the ditch coming friday on aruba?

From the website (thanks for the link). Yes, Senor Frog is owned by the same people as CnC. Senor Frog opening in the US this year, in Myrtle Beach, Las Vegas, and Hawaii.


Based in Cancun, Grupo Anderson’s has developed several
successful restaurant concepts, including Carlos‘n Charlie’s
and Señor Frog’s - names that are recognized worldwide
today. Other brands include El Tumbaburros, El Shrimp
Bucket, Mama Roma, Come ‘n Eat, So Good, and Glazz, an
upscale Asian restaurant and ultra lounge in Cancun.

More from Senor Frog's website.


 If you've ever been to a Senor Frog's, you already know that we're a place where people of all backgrounds hang together, dance, sing and basically act they way they want - without worrying about silly rules and regulations.


Our philosophy is simple: have fun. Let yourself go. Throw caution to the wind. Do something daring. When you're at Senor Frog's, you're gonna smile - even if we have to hold you down and tickle you. (which we've been known to do)
        

Yep, that sounds like CnC all the way.

I agree Janet, it's great to hear Jug speaking out again!  I hope they will all keep what they know out in the media, and shout it from the mountain tops if necessary!  I truly believe that this is the ONLY way that the truth will eventually surface.  I'm also counting on some help from my new favorite crime investigator/journalist Peter Devries! 

Goodnight Janet!

Goodnight Everyone!

Savoring the moment with intimacy and pride?

Yes, but the bone person was out to lunch when they took it in and later went on vacation before they got back from lunch so they put it in that drawer of things to forget.

Requesting donations and will accept any amount in the name of Natalee Off Aruba.

But aren't they the same company and they are just changing names in hopes of preventing a big civil lawsuit?

Hard for me to tell without knowing him or understanding what he's saying.  I'm going to trust you Dutchies know him best!

Absolutely, it does not matter how many pearls, how much silk and lace you put on a pig, it still smells like a pig.  Just ask kermit.

A chorus of "ah," say it ain't so, Red, we don't want Mrs. Red to know. ::MonkeyWink:: ::MonkeyWink:: ::MonkeyWink::

Wow, thanks for that.  I read something on the site about Ayaan Hirsi Ali.  I think I read she is applying for political asylum in Paris.  Geez, are they not about overrun right now.  Maybe she should come to USA and teach/preach. 

OK, caught up and talking to myself.  Bon noir.

LMFAO   Nancy Grace showing video of paul running to the car
your favorite video Klass Nancy said that is only thing you see his back side
cause he runs away when asked questions
Gotta love Jug he called Paul obnoxious

I'm hoping Carpe was able to capture it!

I just adore Jug and he say it like it is calls paulus out for what he is
and clearly says he thinks Paul is involved
and I love CNN airs in Aruba  ::MonkeyDance::

::MonkeyWink:: Whats great about that video was the stunned reporter..You can hear his bewildered voice yelling Mr.Van Der Sloot??? (Like why are you running?)

Posted by FierlJepper at Scrux:


I was listening to my I-pod Touch (in bed) and watched a part of the DeVries show when I suddenly spotted an interesting 'slip of the tongue' about how Joran mixes up the 'him' and the 'they'.

It's in the following scene and I include in bold what was completely lost in translation.


P: Those Deepak and Satish?

J: Dumb boys, Patrick, they are not even worth it.

P: They dropped you off.

J: Yes, imagine how slick I had to be to persuade him ... to persuade them to say they had dropped me off at my hotel. That truly messed things up, that messed things up.

P: But of course.

J: So I told him, but if the police come, Deepak and Satish have dropped me off at the beach there, so I will have to talk with them also. Then he (<- FJ: Joran doesnt say 'he' at all!!!) they said, "Yes, that is true."

P: So you never told these two anything?

J: Never, never, never. Looking back I did not think that this shit would be so much...


I suddenly got the strong feeling that Daury isn't a single person, but that at least two people arrived and witnessed the 'situation'. Since Joran was lying about the number of people in is confession to Patrick, he suffered from quite some slips of the tongue and also was forced by his lie to make himself one of the carriers to the boat. In reality the two helpers could have told him to rush home and to get an alibi asap. They then carried Natalee to the boat without Joran present, but they did tell him about he mode of disposal after the fact.

This scenario would fit the timelines very well...

P.S.
How about his friends Luis and Joshua? They were at the HI that night.

I had no idea the Persistence can find anything bigger than a baseball. That is unbelievable!!!


http://tinyurl.com/22cjbd

FYI

itenary visit Balkenende Antillen/Aruba


http://www.minaz.nl/Actueel/Pers_en_nieuwsberichten/2008/Februari/Balkenende_en_Bijleveld_bezoeken_Nederlandse_Antillen_en_Aruba

Waiting Game Continues for Holloway Family
An Appeals Panel Delays Decision to Re-Arrest Joran van der Sloot
 
Monday, Feb 11, 2008 - 11:50 PM
 
By Jennifer Hale

Prosecutors in Aruba say there's been another delay in their request to re-arrest Joran van der Sloot.
    Aruba's Ministry of Justice filed for permission to re-arrest  van der Sloot soon after his secretly recorded confession tape became public.
     A Dutch judge denied the request - saying the tape didn't provide enough evidence to justify van der Sloot's third arrest.
     Aruban prosecutors appealed, and a panel of three judges in The Netherlands was scheduled to decide Monday if they would over rule the first judge's decision.
    Instead, Monday afternoon the Appeals Court announced they're giving van der Sloot's defense attorney until Wednesday to fight the effort to re-arrest him.
     It's a stressful waiting game for Natalee Holloway's family. Her dad Dave Holloway says he is more convinced than ever that van der Sloot drugged his daughter the night she died. Holloway says he believes it happened at a more private back bar at Carlos and Charlie's that served up some suspicious drinks when bar tenders announced last call.
    “A male would come up and order two drinks. The bartenders would reach up, get the liquor bottles - then pour the drinks. Then the bartender would reach down below him and grab a bottle with clear liquid and just put it in one of the drinks," explains Holloway.
     Van der Sloot says he was lying on the confession tape, but Holloway believes it’s the truth. Holloway says one of the most tell-tale parts of the tape is when van der Sloot admits he was on the beach with Natalee the night she died, and then that he called someone to dump her body when she went unconscious.
      “Common sense will tell you, that's not a normal reaction. If you hadn't done something wrong, why would you bother to get rid of the body? Why go to the trouble?” questions Holloway.
     The Appeals Panel could make its decision on whether police can re-arrest van der Sloot by the end of the week.

http://www.nbc13.com:80/gulfcoastwest/vtm/news.apx.-content-articles-VTM-2008-02-11-0022.html

I have a question concerning Dutch/Aruban law.

Wouldn't a person be legally considered still alive until declared otherwise by a coroner, physician or at least member of the medical community such as Emergency Med Tech?

Is Joran authorized to declare a person as deceased?

If not, then legally, was he not responsible for what was legally considered a still live person being put into the ocean as a distance from shore from which it was impossible for them to swim, recover, etc.

How is this not murder since it is only the word of the perpetrator to the crime that she was dead at the time?

It's really scary to think someone like Joran can go around declaring who is living and who is not and act according to his own determination.

This is legal?  WoW!

.

Hi Anna..Seems to Me there are two murders Joran and whoever deposed of the body....wasn't one of the suspects accused of conspiracy to commit murder....if She was still alive and Joran asked someone to dump Her in the ocean and that person just said OK then that person is as guilty if not more so than Joran....Does this make sense?  ::MonkeyConfused:: 

Arm found in Venezuela was from a Pelican

'Correct people should behind bars'
By MAAIKE RUEPERT
[WEBLOG ARUBA] Few Arubans are to this day engaged in searching for Natalee Holloway. Businessman Eduardo Mansur is one such exception.
Image enlarge Natalee Holloway on the beach of Aruba.
He helps the family Holloway where he can. He acts as a broker between the Aruban contacts there, and American zoekteams or private detectives acting on behalf of the Holloways Aruba calling.

Mansur hold office in his bar in Palm Beach, where everything and everyone together. As he tells us about the early days nearly three years ago. The days when any tip could be the golden tip. When he reached three times around the whole island has walked.

One of the most memorable tips came from a man who lived of the tip. , "He explained that he had seen people something rolled up in a carpet were dumped at the landfill. He had blond hair and was seen to be sure that it was Natalee.''After thirty days dig dirt, the carpet was Mansur, which includes up a palm tree. ,, The man had palmbladeren for Natalee's hair since. He was probably under the influence of drugs.''

Also Mansur can still recall that there is an arm aanspoelde in Punto Fijo, the Venezuelan place closest to the West Indies. ,, They sent the arm to the lab in Caracas. When we heard nothing more, I check call. What was found? Did they arm in Caracas discarded because it would have been a pelikanenpoot.''The businessman is there to this day convinced that it was an arm. ,, I have seen a picture, and although the quality was bad, it was clearly an arm.''

The Arubaan has grey hairs of the case. Why is he anyway? ,, I want to see the past. The family this tragedy can be closed. I want them their daughter back. And I want the right people behind bars controversy: Joran, his father, the genius behind this cover-up, and some dirty cops.''

http://www.ad.nl/holloway/weblog/article2033548.ece

Hotping,
I just find it troubling that the word of a teen-aged punk is taken as factual for whether or not a person was deceased even in his confession.

Since when is Joran even remotely qualified to pronounce people as living or deceased?  What training and certification does he hold to do this?

So to me, everything after he made this pronouncement falls on him as he took it upon himself to decide who was living and wasn't.

If one goes to Aruba, is this something that can be expected, punks stating you are dead and disposing of you and it called only a misdemeanor disposal of a corpse because they are allowed to make this determination?

Have they never heard of a Death Certificate and that one is required for such things as insurance and burial?

Well, unless Joran is involved then he makes that determination all on his own and suddenly his confession takes that as a fact and he is only suspected of disposal of a corpse.

This is ludicrous!  I don't know about others involved as perhaps they took the word for Joran that Natalee was deceased and assumed he had bothered to check or knew what he was talking about.  Seems they are not the only ones as authorities seem eager to take his word as well and call it only wrongful disposal, etc.

Without the requirement for coroner or physician to declare a person deceased, you can bet this might not be the first time someone has been buried or disposed of it all it takes is the word of a known teen aged punk.

The assumption should be that the person is alive until declared otherwise by someone with the authority to do so, that would not be Joran in any event.

.

I feel the same way....many years ago a young man was run over by an eighteen wheeler in front of My Father's business....He was most definitely deceased so before the police even got there someone covered him with a blanket that they had in their car...when the police did arrive They were very upset because the body had been covered before the proper authorities had pronounced Him dead...Joran said that He did not know if She was dead or not....So if She was disposed of without Joran and Daddy I mean Daury not knowing for sure if She was dead that is Murder.....IMO

Good Night All!

Natalee was still LEGALLY alive when put into the ocean regardless of Joran's opinion.

Unless someone has appointed him Junior Coroner or something, he is not qualified to make that determination.  OM saying he ONLY confessed to disposal is ludicrous.

Natalee was not elderly and infirm but a young healthy person seen very much alive minutes before Joran claims to have disposed of her.  His opinion as to her state should count for zilch and I can't believe they are even taking his word on this at all.

Goes back to how stupid do they think we are, anyway.

This is all from RU posts by Glenda and Jenna...3 threads over there regarding this :roll: .....

Recent RU threads:
1. Patrick denies his brother owns a Watersports Company  by Glenda/Julia 2-7
2. Booshi Wever   by Jenna 2-11
3. What are we missing about the Watersports Company?  by Jenna on 2-11

very interesting point. it makes sense to me.


but it don't understand much about dutch law. especially in this case.
it seems to be designed to get people off the hook.
the judiciary seems to be not prepared for this.
but the evidence is inside the OM at aruba i think.
the dutch OM should issue a warrant to search the OM at aruba.
and the higher court at curaçao.
such a mindboggling mess this one. court case of the century already.
at least for the netherlands that is.

Columbian and Venezuelan....Jaime 'Beto' and Freddy....Seems from Joran's book Luis and Joshua hung around the beach just like Joran, Jaime and Freddy....no mention anywhere form the MB'ers about Luis and Joshua...IMO...he switched the names to protect the guilty....

From Joran's 6/9 PV
After that the group of girls walked to the Sportsbar. In the Sportsbar I also saw to two acquaintances who were watching baseball. I greeted my two acquaintances, and told them that I was doing fine too, and that I would be going to "Carlos & Charlies" that night. My two acquaintances are named "Luis" and "Joshua". I regularly meet them at Carlos & Charlies. The last name of Luis is "BETANCOURT". I do not know the last name of Joshua. Luis BETANCOURT is a Venezuelan, and according to me Joshua is Colombian but I don't know that for sure.

caesu...are you aware that there is an American tourist missing since January from St. Maarten?

I hope your PM addresses that one on his visit as well....

I was misunderstood yesterday, when I asked if our new Monkeys from the Netherlands had read Joran's book. As far as literacy value it probably has none.

The only value I have found is to compare the lies to the PVs and identify a few more friends/pimps. Remember it appears Joran had access to all the statements, including the 302s from the States.

I agree Anna.  This is very scary that Joran is allowed to determine who is dead or not.  The only way he can determine that is if he outright murdered her.

They mentioned on the of the shows that Joran gave the "order" to dump her in the ocean.  My my he has such power doesn't he.  He was saying she was alive but he gave an order to dump her.  That is murder.

Lala's...here's the info on GVC and the tourist...maybe I should post in the Shango thread....I know you'll see it there....LOL

Prev. posted Feb.5th.

Here's the article about GVC...I just read at reihlworld that Nat's friends had seen her talking to GVC see bottom of page.

Interview With Cromvoirt Acquaintance
Though currently studying abroad, I was able to establish contact and do a brief phone interview with a young American girl acquainted with current detainee in the Natalee Holloway investigation, Geoffrey van Cromvoirt.

She is still somewhat shaken by news of his arrest, particularly as it was June 9th, 2005, the night Joran Van der Sloot and the two Kalpoe brothers were arrested, when she met GVC at Carlos and Charlies. She was able to provide the day of the week, Thursday, which matches with the night of the three boys arrests. After speaking with her, I've no reason to doubt her veracity.

GVC was alone at Carlos and Charlies that night keeping mostly to himself. She could only remember him saying hello to one other person passing by that night in the club. After some initial eye contact, it was she who approached GVC. He immediately appeared to open up.

One item of possible interest, he told her that he worked during the day taking tourists out on a Catamaran. While I have no way of ascertaining it was the same catamaran, I do recall photos taken by the Mountain Brook students showing that they did take such a trip.

GVC struck her as something of a self promoter, constantly talking about himself, his many connections and his family's supposed wealth. She also recalled seeing images of some famous individuals he had stored in his cell phone, noting that GVC did not appear with those people in said pictures. Still, he insisted they were friends.

On another night, she may have been less receptive to the seemingly brash young man, but she found him attractive, she was on vacation and the two eventually danced. She indicated that there were no drugs involved, though both were drinking. At some point, GVC offered her a ride to her hotel and a male friend of the young woman went along.

GVC did apparently brag about being involved with security, trying to exert some pressure on a hotel guard to acknowledge who he was. The guard apparently failed to acknowledge him in any significant manner. She believes he was driving a jeep at the time, possibly blue and that he also mentioned a recent or pending purchase of a truck, color unknown.

Back at her hotel, it was decided that he would leave behind his ID and possibly some other wallet contents with her friends as security before the two went back out alone together. They spent approximately a half an hour or so together, primarily on the beach. The only potentially unusual thing she noticed during their time on the beach was that he might have been a bit nervous, looking about - at one point claiming he saw a security guard coming. She could not see a guard.

After some time on the beach his cell phone started ringing but he did not answer it. She believes it rang several times in succession, possibly as many as seven times. When she inquired about the calls, he stated that it was his Mother and that he had to get home. He kept reiterating, he had to go. She was puzzled at this as she believed him to be 19 years old at the time.

After a night of being extremely talkative, mostly about himself, she did eventually ask him in a casual way about the Natalee Holloway case. She feels very strongly that it was at that point his demeanor significantly changed. He almost completely stopped talking while the two were walking, swiftly now, back to her hotel.

She asked a few different questions ... if he knew of the case, of those involved, what was it that he thought. But he did not answer any of those questions, or change the topic. He mostly just stopped talking at all. They returned to her hotel, a friend brought down his things and that was the last she saw of him until his recent arrest. She felt he all but took off running, likely related to the phone calls, as he left.

Later after leaving the island, the interaction did leave her with a strange feeling, mostly because of his sudden silence when the topic of Natalee Holloway came up. Unsure if it meant anything, or not, eventually she did call the FBI. She gave them what information she could as regards the encounter, much of which I have now relayed here.

It remains unclear what, if any connection GVC has to the Holloway case. But at least one individual who spent some time with the boy soon after the disappearance was troubled enough about his demeanor simply talking about the case to make a call to the FBI.

I have agreed to keep her identity secret.


------------------------


According to what Holloway's friends have told authorities, the blond-haired, blue-eyed van Cromvoirt was seen with their classmate after she left van der Sloot - the pals say they saw them in the Holiday Inn casino together. But when the casino's video surveillance tapes were turned over to police, investigators could find no sign of Holloway and van Cromvoirt, the source noted.

Van Cromvoirt's father is the security expert in charge of video surveillance at the hotel.

Aruban authorities are also scrutinizing a surveillance tape taken earlier on May 30 that shows Holloway arguing with a light-haired young man in a jewelry store in the Wyndham Hotel, according to the source.

Good morning.  Just catching up before leaving for chemo.  I thought CnC and Sr. Frog's were owned by the same company.  Calling it something else isn't going to change what goes on inside.  Big waste of time and money if you ask me.

Arm bone from Pelican?

Someone better get that arm bone to the Smithsonian. Pronto. That would be a new species as far as I know. One with fingers.

Can ya just imagine?

A pelican that can open jars, turn handles, drive a car, work a calculator, and can probably post on the net. It can probably bait a hook too.... so why all that effort diving into the sea...LOL

That's a new legendary monster for the Arubans to conjure up all kinds of fantasies.

Good Morning everyone.

Hammer needs to read the transcript again. Joran plainly stated that he did not know if she was alive or not when he dumped her into the ocean. Hammer's heart gives the benefit of the doubt to version that she was already dead, even though it was Joran's fault that we don't know. Pretty pathetic

Off to the clinic for chemo.  Pray for answers.  Have a great day, y'all.

LOL...Thanks for the laugh...Rob...Peaches...Good Morning!

Good Luck Honey!!!

In my opinion, Joran has confessed to murder in the DeVries tapes.

He stresses that he does not know if Natalee is alive or dead. And since Natalee is not here to determine if she did have a seizure, one must conclude that he hid the body (based on his words on the tape) to conceal something.

EX-
If I take a live person and hurl them off a bridge - that's murder should the person die. Attempted murder at a minimum. The height used to place the person in the water is irrelevant. Bridge vs. over the side of a boat. The person is in the water. In the case where the person is slipped over the edge of the boat, it could be argued that the only reasonable conclusion is concealment.

Same thing here.

Joran has admitted taking a person, one he is not sure is alive or dead, and made them disappear. The person has not been seen in 32 months. It's only logical that the person is no longer alive and Joran is indeed the last person to be seen with that missing person.

That's murder in my book folks, and I could easily convict someone if I were seated on a jury.

Goodbye Monkeys~
If I hear, see or read anything of importance and can pick up a Wifi signal I will post it here.
Respectfully, Martini  :smt024

just to add...

Joran starts the chain of events when he places the phone call to whoever it was. That's premeditation.

What would he have done if that person didn't answer, or the line was busy? call someone else?

That's intent.

Thanks Martini

I believe they are owned by the same people. Name swapping.

Morning Monkeys

10 yrs ago I was on business in Cancun and someone insisted we go to Senor Frogs. Total tourist trap geared towards younger crowd.  All about alcohol consumption and rowdiness.

Trust me.  Same place, different name. 

I guarantee that the owners did it to salvage their reputation.

I think he initially intended to rape her but ended up murdering her.

There are a list of charges a mile long that should be thrown at him

I also was at Sr Frogs in Cancun right around 10 years ago!!!

I knew you looked familiar!  Weren't you the one dancing on the table? LOL ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

JUG is the man. He tells it like it is and the viewing audience receives him well.

Is it true that alibi for Freddy and Gottenbos (Koen only?) were family reunions?

Yet it is rumored that Freddy spent the night at Joran's apartment that night?

And rumored that Gottenbos (Sander only?) offered JVDS boat fun that evening in place of him going to CnC?

Aruba had a Senor Frogs. It closed. I believe it was in Shelp Straat.

<snip>
On your question if I had contact with Joran on May 29, 2005, I tell you the following;
I had telephone contact with Joran on May 29, 2005, this was around 11.00.

On your question about how the conversation went, I will tell you the following;
The conversation went that I asked him if he wanted to go out on my fathers boat.

He said that he could not go because he was going to play poker at the Holiday Inn. There is tournament each Sunday in aforementioned hotel and Joran participates almost each week in that tournament.

On your question what kind of boat my father has, I will explain to you the following:
It is a speedboat, of the make "Sea Pro".

On your question if Joran had been on our boat before, I will explain to you the following:
Joran has never been on our boat and has also never with our dangers. (?)
It should read:

"Joran has never been on our boat and also has never been boating with us".
On your question if I had spoken on May 29, 2005 with Joran by means of the computer, I will explain you the following:
I do not remember myself if I had spoken to him by means of the computer. If he had been online then it would be possible.

On your question if I had contact on May 30, 2005 with Joran, I will explain to you the following:
I truly cannot remember myself if I had spoke with him.

I do not think by telephone for certain because my telephone was stolen that day at school. I think that I had no contact with Joran by means of the computer.

I think it is in the red circle, but can't be totally sure.
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/oranjestad3.jpg)

Thanks.

The cat seems to have everyone's tongue. Just as I thought.

Hi BUCKSHOT....I found something in the PV's yesterday that said some of Freddy's relatives were questioned and Joran was confronted with this and Freddy statement. The discussion went from there, in the Shango thread, that his relatives could have been his alibi. We were talking Shango/Simian....assumptions...we have no proof.

Don't recall were I read that Koen was supposed to be visiting friends in Florida, may have been family, but again as far as I know...not a fact....Spock may have more on this.

It's in the PVs about Sander and the boat that day...again I think, fuzzy mind today, and would not have a clue which one....maybe later...


Thanks to everyone for all the updates yesterday and last night.

Morning monkeys! I went to bed early last night because I am catching a bad cold. Am just listening to Nancy Grace as I only caught a little bit of it last night. Jug rocks!
I love it when in talking about the corruption in the investigation Nancy says."well Jug , the fish stinks at the head". Boy has she got that right!!!!

Thanks Blonde....really didn't want to go back to those PVs today.

Buckshot...Joran also mentioned in his book that a lot of Columbians and Venezuelans were on Aruba for the SB Festival and we discussed that it was possible that Jaime or Freddy could have had family visiting. This was a while ago and also led to the assumptions of a family reunion on my part.

We are watching, and *part of*...a miracle in the making...I feel the blessed energy.  Good overcoming EVIL!!!

Probably!!

 ::MonkeyLaugh::

That might have been me.....  :smt102 Been there, done that.
Cancun has a Carlos and Charlies as well as a Senior Frogs. C&C's seemed more sinister to me, but, depending on the bartender, and the alliances that exist between the locals and the staff that work there, the scenario that most probably played out the night Natalee went missing, could happen at either.

I'm curious about something............I always stay on a huge resort in Cancun that is all-inclusive. It's cheaper that way, and an extremely nice place. One of the "options" for guests is a bar-hop night. Basically, they take you to the better known bars, including Senior Frogs, and Carlos and Charlies, as well as a couple more, and guarentee you that you will be delivered back to your room by 4:00am, even if they have to do it in a wheelbarrow! It's just a shuttle thing with 2 burley guys that park themselves at the door of each place and you are not leaving until they gather everyone up to move on to the next place. No one bothers you or the group you are in, and you've got these bracelets that entitle you to cheaper drinks at the bars. If you decide you want to cut off the night early, the "shuttle" takes you back after it transports everyone else to the next place and you are walked to your door............whether you want to be or not! I'm making this sound like the military, and it's not...........everybody is very friendly and joke around a lot. The point is this: You're in a different country, and it's a great way to let your hair down without a worry about driving, drinking, getting home, or major regrets the next day and even if you're with friends, you don't worry about anyone. There's no interference with what you want to do, while you're at these places, but you ARE going back to the gated resort before the night's over, there's no standing in line at the places you go, and I felt SAFE!

I've done the night twice, once with adult friends, and once with teenagers I was chaparoning who were just 18 and I knew were going to be drinking, no matter what I did. It was great to know that I had help to make sure they got back alright, and I didn't have to have more sets of eyes than God gave me! I wonder why more tourists places, like Aruba, don't have more packages like that?

CBB,
That would interfere with Aruba's National passtime which seems to be drugging and raping the tourist girls.  Would spoil all the fun for the local punks and pimps.

.

http://news.diario-aruba.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1016&Itemid=30 (http://news.diario-aruba.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1016&Itemid=30)


Online Pap translation:

corte of husticia have to listen advocate joran

tuesday, 12 february 2008

oranjestad (aan) — the ultimo comunicado cu autoridad penal of aruba, ministerio publico owing to emiti y cu owing to see luz yesterday, owing to give more motibo for cuminza think if autoridad penal not was know con the sistema of husticia is funciona at aruba.

week happen owing to worde tell at prensa cu is wait for decision of huez for see if is go back detene joran van der sloot owing to base of the interogacionnan at the netherlands. not owing to splica cu the proceso will owing to march owing to base of reglanan for one caso cu owing to bay in apelacion y in cual have to listen the advocate of joran van der sloot, cu according expertonan will tell cu is bau influencia of drugs past owing to haci his declaracionnan. con is atende cu person bau influencia of drugs, autoridad owing to demostra year happen in caso of one adicto at aruba.

hour huez dicta one sentencia, uno of the partidonan envolvi can apela the decision. esey is nifica cu is ask corte of husticia for atende the caso, cu have to worde deal as cualquier caso. have acusacion y have defence.

the informenan of autoridad penal owing to crea the impresion, cu hour interogacion of van der sloot termina at the netherlands, huez will dicidi if is detene. was seems cu is without more huez will can owing to permiti for detene johan van der sloot.

genuinely, one caso in apelacion is worde deal of new door of corte of husticia y neither sikiera one sun huez.
autoridad penal is present his acusacion y the motibo for cual the is believe cu the sentencia of huez in previous to instancia have to worde revoca. the acusado have derecho on defence same cu the was have derecho after of the sentencia of huez for past owing to apela the sentencia.

the informacionnan of ministerio publico owing to less the caminda legal some for of vista y owing to crea one impresion various till cu yesterday, cu autoridad legal owing to go back emiti one comunicado for aclarea one que another y place in perspectiva of the form con husticia is funciona.

yesterday autoridad penal, ministerio publico, owing to anuncia cu contrario at another informacion, not can wait for cu yesterday monday 11 of feburary, corte will owing to dicta damage in the caso cu past owing to apela contra decision of huez comisario for rechaza the detencion of johan van der sloot.

corte of husticia owing to tell cu they will take one decision after of 13 of feburary already cu the advocate of joran van der sloot is achieve till 13 of feburary 2008 for give his sharp of vista in the caso cu owing to apela. ministerio publico owing to go back conclui his comunicado cu is hour corte dicidi, the can give comentario.

the question is stay if the funcionamento of husticia do not conoci close autoridad penal of aruba, cu was have problem for prove they acusacion contra johan van der sloot, cu they owing to detene owing to base of “informacionnan nobo”, cu not can owing to prove kico joran cu owing to close his mouth, owing to haci.

according expertonan can wait for cu joran van der sloot his advocate will tell thing joran self owing to tell, cu the was bau influencia of drugs hour past owing to haci the declaracionnan at de vries. kico esey will nifica? can as responsible for his words cu past owing to talk bau influencia of drugs?

* * *

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyWink::

I am still catching up, as you can see...
WooooooHooooooo!! Go Beth!!  ::MonkeyDance::
Thanks Dana and Red!!

hahahaha...I almost missed that little tidbit Red!  LOL

WOW! I had been hoping for this! Thanks klaas!  ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

Lmao Rob......gotta love it, eh??
Pelican leg, my @$$
PLEASE GO HERE>>>> lol
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=pelican+skeleton&gbv=2

Pick any you like. Not even close to the picture in question.

I have discussed the arm before and I am not qualified to say if it is human or not. It does 'look' human or primatelike. The mere fact they try to pawn it off as a pelican leg bone is insane. If they were going to lie about it, the least they could have done was say it was from a primate...to make what they are saying more believable. So.........why lie??

Balkenende starts working visit Antilles 

(http://www.amigoe.com/english/images/02-11-jan-peter-balkene.jpg)

PHILIPSBURG — Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende and State Secretary Ank Bijleveld-Schouten (Kingdom Relations, CDA) arrived in St. Maarten yesterday evening.  They will visit all the islands, starting with St. Maarten.  During his visit, the premier wants to get informed on the progress of the political process.  They will also visit education-, healthcare-, and economic development projects. 

Other than the Lt. Governor, also Prime Minister Emily de Jongh-Elhage was at the airport to welcome the Dutch members of government.  After St. Maarten, they will visit Saba and Statia, after which they will fly to Curacao and arrive on Tuesday evening.  They will go to Aruba on Thursday evening and will visit in succession the Governor, Prime Minister Nelson Oduber, and the minister Nilo Swaen and Rudy Croes on Friday morning, and afterwards, a visit to the Chairman of Parliament and the parliamentary party-chair is on the agenda.  Prime Minister Balkenende will speak to teachers and students of Colegio Arubano in the afternoon, and will also visit the Valero Aruba Refinery and the barracks of the Royal Marines in Savaneta.  Balkenende will go back to the Netherlands on that same day in the evening.

http://www.amigoe.com/english/

What kind of a place accepts the word of a teen-aged stoner that someone is deceased???

They claim they have to do everything legally and by the book yet are taking Joran's word for it that Natalee was dead???

Who appointed him coroner?  What are his qualifications?  See Bobby Cutts weeping and wailing on the witness stand right now about how it victim was accidental.  Let's see how that flies.

No reason to dump at sea any body that died by means other than extreme foul play.

Come to Aruba where teen punks stoned out of their gourds can declare you dead and dump you in the ocean and all the Prosecutor will threaten them with is the disposal of your corpse!

There is a new tourism slogan for them to replace One Happy Island.