Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

From the previous thread:

When MF first reported it on Feb.26 it was posted as>>

The earlier report that the Persistance has found something has now been confirmed.
Human remains were found and these sent to the FBI lab in Quantico.

The report came back this morning stating that the tests exclude Natalee Holloway.

The OM will release a statement later today.

Last edited by MF on Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
~~~~~~~~

Then the thread title changed to 'fabric'


~~~~~~~~~
MF Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:35 pm   

No, the original report does not match Tito's report either. According to the OM statement, it was fabric found in the crab trap. Not human remains.
~~~~~~~~~~

Since you brought that over, does that make me first?


 ::MonkeyDance:: I have never been first.

Carry over...

There will always be speculation and interpretation when "the real" reports are not published.  The speculation may drive some crazy but that is what happens when someone else "tells" about another entities results.  One then judges the "report" based on the history of the presenter.

Is that kinda like when blood turns to chocolate  .....

I don't buy it.  Tim would not have called Dave for just fabric.  The pics we saw show a trap with more in it than just fabric.  The FBI are not telling Mos the results, other than the fabric is not what she wore on her last night in Aruba.  In other words, the FBI are not saying ANYTHING!  That's as it should be.

Tim Miller
On the Record w/ Greta
February 27, 2008

Greta: Tim are they absolutely certain that this is not a piece of clothing belonging to Natalee Holloway?

Tim: The report we got is the DNA that came back did not match Natalee's DNA ...

Unofficial Transcript - Heli (RU)

Moved this thought forward.any opinions???


Great thoughts AZlady.You think it could be something from the VDS house.Blanket,plastic,something from the garden shed???Material from a bodybag???Just thoughts.Could be material from any of the perps houses.Opinions???

Keepthefaith

Mos is just quoting one FBI statement.
There could have been several statements from the FBI.

Well, Mos' recent attitude problems could be as the result of being left out in the cold by the FBI.  Serves him right.

Yes

It could be any type of fabric used to wrap her body.  I think the fabric is the least significant part of the contents of the trap.  I also think the FBI is telling Mos to go suck an egg. 

I hope your right,as well as i sure hope Mos likes eggs! ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

We gave Aruba every chance to solve this case.  They've shown their refusal in so many ways.  It's time for someone else to step in, like our own FBI, and compile the evidence.  I personally think Aruba's hands will be tied when this is done, between the Dutch and the FBI.  They will have no choice and it will be a bitter pill for them to swallow.

Maybe NBC was there to ensure that everything was recorded.  Hopefully this would ensure that there was evidence of what was found.  Perhaps there was some concern that it would go astray.

I think that's true.  It also ensures that the evidence is not tampered or damaged when found.  Even if this is not Natalee's body, if it is a body, it needs to be identified and the perpetrators caught.

The bitter pill may be more distasteful for some than for others. 

Perhaps the bitter pill motivated Jan van der Straaten to return to the Netherlands.  I wonder if any others have relocated these past few weeks.  Any more homes for sale?

I know how to blow an egg.   ::MonkeyLaugh::

I know what I *think* I saw in the 6 photos from last night...but, I'm not gonna post it here...don't wanna get jumped on...laying low for the time being...

JE's translation of Hans Mos words in this Dutch interview convinces me that there was nothing related to the Natalee Holloway case in that cage/trap.

Janet

+++++++++

Quote from: ******* on February 28, 2008, 07:18:01 AM
Tv Interview with Hans Mos in Dutch..Can someone please tell us if he says anything interesting?

Hans Mos praat over zaak 'Natalee Holloway'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxrrK53GOOA

+++++++++

Quote from: JE on February 28, 2008, 07:47:39 AM
He talks about the persistence search says they they re looking for a needle in a haystack. He says its a difficult search assuming the needle and haystack even exist.

That's a very good thought.Time and pressure.All things eventually wear down.The ANGELS here at SM have the time,as well,will apply pressure anyway we know how.For instance.Had a customer who uses my business is going on a Cruise of the Panama canal and it docks in Aruba.He told me for Natalee he'll spend no money in Aruba.Little miracles happening everywhere.Yes i believe every bit counts.... ::MonkeyWink::


Keepthefaith

http://au.us.biz.yahoo.com/iw/080229/0368776.html   ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyShocked::

INVESTOR ALERT: KGS Announces the Initial Filing of Securities Class Action Lawsuit Against Superior Offshore International, Inc. -- DEEP
Friday February 29, 12:16 am ET

(snipped)

Just thought I'd bring this over. OE didn't really dispute me! (unless he was mocking me -  ::MonkeyConfused::)

nope!  not gonna say it!

Oceanexploration....Kyle... Have You seen the Post that Blonde left for You today in the Ocean Search Thread.....Its Very Interesting!  ::MonkeyWink::

Doesn't he also say in that speech that all dead people on Aruba have been accounted for in the past five years?  or something to that effect--that's not a quote.  However, if a body lies in a cage off the coast of Aruba, then that is one that is not explained.

LOL!!!  ::MonkeyDance::

Wreck, I noticed that, too.  I also don't believe OE mocks.  Not his style.

I will!   I've blown many an egg....for Easter Parties.. ::MonkeyDance::

Thats ok.  He has not responded to my question as well. 

I think I know why.

I have been watching that.

"The DNA that came back was not a match for Natalee"

IF THERE EVER WAS A BLOOPER... !

DNA is not found routinely in tennis shoes or blankets or blouses, either, after being submerged for 2 1/2 years. It comes from HUMAN REMAINS. Yes indeed, they found something, but what it is they most certainly are not at liberty to say.

And that's just 1 of the targets. One down, 100 more to go. ;)

You are bad....  in a good way.  But I like you!

Then I will say that I could see a sheet or a blanket under the bones in
the pics posted by Robin.

wreck - OE compliments you. Keep your train of thought on track! pun intended.  ::MonkeyHaHa::
ala - No response to my questions either...

I agree AZLady.  There were "rumors" floating in the intial stages of the so-called investigation that there had also been a tarp stolen from the Fisherman's Hut.  Logic implies that a tarp ... not blouse material ... would have survived almost three year at the bottom of the ocean.

What I what to know ... Where did the FBI laboratory get an exact match of the the fabric of Natalee's top?  Was this the fabric found by the park ranger in the Boca Tortuga area of Aruba in July, 2005.

Janet

++++++++++++++++


Postbus 1163, Oranjestad, Aruba
Havenstraat 2
Oranjestad
Aruba

To All media

From The Public Prosecutor’s Office

Date February 26, 2007

Pages 1

The Prosecutors’ Office of Aruba has received the results of the comparison tests done by the FBI Laboratory in the United States of America on clothing, cloth or a textile of some type recovered in January 2008 by an Aruban dive team inside a crab trap in about 90 feet of water, off the coast of Aruba. The Aruban dive team was directed to the crab trap by the crew of the vessel “Persistence” that is conducting a sea search looking for the body of Natalee Holloway. The Persistence is searching for a crab trap based on the story that the body of Natalee Holloway was disposed of and placed in a similar device.

The Aruban Police requested the FBI Laboratory to process the cloth, because the Laboratory already had a sample of the exact match of the type of material of Natalee Holloway’s blouse. The FBI Laboratory received that material on the 22nd of January 2008.

On the 25th of February 2008, the Prosecutors’ Office received the official report from the FBI Laboratory that showed that the two materials were not a match.


Fabric/Duct Tape - Boca Tortuga
SCARED MONKEYS
June 18, 2006

What did the Aruba Park Ranger pick up at Boca Tortuga area? Fabric that matched Natalee’s Top?

What ever happened to this material? Why didn’t the media camera man take a close up of what so closely resembled the green fabric of Natalee’s top? One would have thought that they would have zoomed right in to see what had been collected.

On Sunday, July 17, 2005 the park rangers found the duct tape with long blonde hair in the Boca Tortuga area of Aruba. A park ranger being video’d walking around picks up a piece of fabric that matches Natalee’s top.

The question still remains today, what ever happened to this evidence that was collected?  We also need to remember that this material that was found washed ashore following the hurricanes that took place last summer. It is highly possibly that the material washed ashore from another location on the island or from out at sea.

View fabric images:
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/06/18/what-did-the-aruba-park-ranger-pick-up-at-boca-tortuga-area-fabric-that-matched-natalees-top/

Another lawsuit filed in Texas and Louisiana against Superior Offshore Int.
http://au.us.biz.yahoo.com/iw/080229/0369225.html

And from the pictures we all saw more than fabric.  I believe I saw a skull. I hope that is what the FBI is testing, and I believe any fabric tests could be returned before identification of bones.  JMO

Then...I will say....You have very good eyes....especially IF you saw a large plastic bag laying flat...very good eyes you have my Dear  ::MonkeyCool::

Yes I've seen it thank you.  I honestly don't find it interesting.

Wreck,  I was not mocking you. 
I must have missed the questions I'm being accused of avoiding.  Should I save myself the trouble and just say no comment?

For those of us who did not see them, is there a monkey thread where we can see these pics?

Front page:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/02/27/natalee-holloway-tim-miller-of-texas-equusearch-discusses-crab-trap-clothing-and-dna-found-in-waters-of-aruba/

Thank You Kyle! That tells Me Alot!  ::MonkeyWink::

Thank you!

No.

Hi Monkeys!

trying to catch up.....can someone tell me where to find these photos?

Janet,
I think Frijole and a couple of others posted last night
that Beth had bought duplicates of the clothing that
Natalee was last seen wearing for the FBI to hold.

Okie doke.
BTW - I really respect and appreciate what you and all involved on the Persistence are doing.
I just pray that you will be able to complete this mission.

(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l28/TallyAnna/smilies/mermaid.gif)

Thanks! I was really kind of worried that you might be dismissive or angry with my "theory."  After deeper analysis of Mos actual statement -- I actually am more confident I'm on the right track.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2641.480

Klaasend...would it be considered a no-no to bring the lowest photo on the right side, of the link you posted to here?  I don't want to do it...but...it is posted on the front page. TIA

interesting that the FBI is talking at all.

Wreck please tell me, why would you think I might be dismissive or angry? 

you never know... now do you? I actally met with an agent this week.  Sorry to be all mysterious but I can't/won't say more.

Good night all ya'll!  I have some more very old, and very pretty walnut waiting on me in my wood working shop!

I stand with the Girl!

I stand with ya''ll!

I am trying to figure out all the fuss about the trap and apparently there is more to it. First of all Tim Miller told Dave he was 99% sure they found Natalee before we saw the thumbs down. Previously he was saying he wouldn't do that to Dave again so there has to be more to it then coral looking like a skull or whatever the images first showed. I believe they did find human remains of someone and are currently testing it to see who it is. After  a few years in the ocean and only 90 feet of water it may take quite a long time to test the DNA.

Also I believe OE would say there is nothing to the cage but instead he is saying no comment. Since the Persistence is saying they have 150 targets still to search and is asking for more funding it leaves me to believe that is not Natalee in the trap.

good night GS..hey make me a glockenspiel if you can ::MonkeyTongue::

I have also been saying for a few days that I would like to see this "official" FBI statement everyone seems to be quoting. You are right, Rob -- the FBI does not release ANYTHING -- normally. I agree that the FBI has not told Mos anything of importance.

Picture are right here

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2641.msg355959#msg355959

Nite Gunslinger

Goodnight ala_gunslinger!  ::MonkeyCool::

Because I was basicly saying that you all were not being totally frank with us. That maybe the The Persistence crew was purposely misleading us about the actual find. (I understand your possible motives to do so -- and I was giving reasons why I thought so)

Good Night ala-gunslinger.

wreck, I thought your line of thinking was brilliant. Someone is out there.... or was...and they are coming home... hopefully.

Thank You very much Klaasend....these were the ones I was looking for...Thanks Again! You are the BEST!!!

I am wondering why they would test fabric and say" no match " to what Natalee was wearing when she may have been simply wrapped in a blanket or cloth?

I've wondered why the trap in the pictures looks so large.  Is this normal?  I remember the pictures of much smaller, cube or barrel shaped things.

What could that thing be in not a real trap?  It kinda reminds me of cages they used to put animals in.  There would be a space for a pan of sorts between the individual cages.  Walls/dividers of some kind of metal mesh.  It also looks to be substantial in weight.

Where would they get something like that?  Would it take more than one person to handle?

Could it be from a school that was moving?  Being replaced?  Old unused cages?  Bird cage? 

Could it be something from Bud Larson's place?  Wasn't he a welder?  People I know that tinker, often have loads of odd stuff laying around.

Who wouldn't miss something that big?

I think "statement" means a written report that Aruba received on
testing performed on a sample sent to the FBI.

I think Mos is being *set-up*, as he so rightly deserves...JMOO

And then announce it publicly like it is major news. Apparently the material must have resembled Natalee's top.

Destiny - would it be possible for you to email me so that I could share with you my brief thoughts concerning those photos.


spoint_obx@hotmail.com   ::MonkeyCool::

I think Ocean Ex sounds like a very good man who has been working extremely long hours, away from home, in not so good working conditions, busting his ass to accomplish what all of us have been working towards, finding answers for Beth. I think he is the kind of guy who went as far as possible, maybe even took a risk, trying to share his findings only to have it backfire, just a little bit. I think he is the kind of guy that you are proud and relieved to see him standing shoulder to shoulder with you when you are engaged in a fight for your life. I think he is the kind of guy that we all should salute and say, "job well done, and we appreciate you." Like I have said many many times before, he is the kind of guy who is an actual "modern day hero."

That said, I feel like I can take those same words, and substitute Red in for Ocean, and mean the same thoughts. Both contributions reflect 100% effort and have hugely and significantly helped someone whom I am especially fond of, and as a result I will be forever in debt to both. Different contributions, but both just as important. And that same thought process applies to every SM and every supporter. People contribute what they can, based upon different skills, situations, and circumstances.

But all together, they make a damn formidable army that has the guilty shaking in their boots. Only God could have assembled this army, and it is an amazing sight to behold.

Had they a similar one to make tht movie didn't they?     

Yes Indeed Private Eye! They Both Are Very Special People! IMHO!

From Amigoe Dutch - through google translator:

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_40198.php

Aruba
For 2006 years for not easy
February 29, 2008, 18:45 (GMT -04:00)

(http://www.amigoe.com/artman/uploads/02-29-om.jpg)
 
Was 2006 despite many positive developments not an easy year for the Public Ministry.


ORANJESTAD - The year 2006 is for the public prosecutor not an easy year, writes Advocate General Nico Jörg in the foreword to the annual report of the Public Attorney's Office (OM). This was by the high profile case Natalee Holloway, allegations on the functioning of the criminal Aruba and the Attorney-General. But there is also a lot of positive happy to report there were more than 250,000 florin to fines collected in almost all criminal cases, the PPS brought before the court, have a conviction. If improvement is the timeliness of the prosecution '.

Good news is that the influx of misdrijfzaken (1202) shows a continuing decline compared to 2005 (1308). In 2004, there were 1396 misdrijfzaken. Misdrijfzaken are cases where a serious offence has been committed. The list in 2006 is headed by robbery under aggravating circumstances (use of force, use of a weapon). This type of crimes rose from fifth place in 2005 to fourth place in 2006 with 312 cases of efforts to this end.

The crime threat has risen from fifth place in 2005 to fourth place in 2006. In that year, 103 cases were made. The offence destruction or damage of goods in 2006 rose from ninth to sixth place (70 cases in 2006).

Drugsdelicten (hard drugs), although the number dropped from 191 in 2005 to 162 in 2006, up from third place in 2005 rose to a second place. Drugsdelicten (soft, 47 cases) zakten of a shared fifth place in 2005 to tenth place in 2006.

The number of registered cases of forgery of a travel document in 2006 fallen sharply and is not more prevalent in this list.

MOVEMENT

In 2006, the 6610 total registered offences. Violations are the 'lighter' cases, mostly traffic violations, for which the prosecution. Compared with 2005, total registered offences rose again, according to the Annual Report. In 2004, the number of registered offences still "only" 5304.

The OM strives for some years to a more solid approach and a more expeditious settlement of verkeersmisdrijven and traffic offences. This led to the increase in registrations of traffic offences in 2004 and 2005. In 2006, the number of registrations light.

Regular breath in the movement had the effect of driving under the influence of alcohol at number three on the list of top ten crime has been reached with 140 cases. Driving without a licence is half collapsed place in 2005 to fifth place in 2006 with 89 cases.

The OM draws attention to the fact that it should not be concluded that there is better driven to Aruba: "Of course it is true that the road mainly because of the material verkeersdelicten jeopardized (no direction, mobile phone behind the wheel, speeding, poor lighting), but behind an administrative failure may also unfit to govern hide. "

EIGENRICHTING

"Effective criminal justice has everything to do with credibility. If people do come declaration of a criminal offence while meekrijgen the false hope that the police will provide for the settlement, or if not resolved cases to any sanctieoplegging lead, or if sanctieoplegging not to implement it leads, or if monitoring recidivists inaction , it can all lead to the population gets the impression that the criminal justice nose is a wash, and there is a danger that people the law into their own hands ", the AG writes in the foreword.

"Then, the criminal is in danger, and that doorbordurend: security in general. In the criminal partners are all dependent on each other for a good result: police, public prosecutor, judges, prison, rehabilitation and not to forget the Department of Legislation, because without adequate laws is the modern crime not effectively combat, "says Jörg. "A premalo partner threatens the strength of the entire chain," he writes, by way of explanation. Who that premalo partner, the imagination of the reader of the Annual Report 2006 left.

The preface ends with: "The criminal justice strives not absolute, and can not seek. The available budget is limited, priorities must be set. Our challenge is to effectively so that the people are confident that the toughest cases to a successful conclusion and that any dissolved matter will be repeated for the offender and the victim, and in larger context: for the society, meaningful. "

Done ;-)

I think Mos just used that one report because it said nothing.
He had been clued that something was about to leak and
decided to make a statement to deny without lying.

That is a enormous cage and it reminds me of the the cage that someone posted here two days ago that they use in Alaska for lobsters. It looks like it has been on that ocean bottom for at least a couple of years.MO

Fair enough and well put.  However, we never mislead anyone and here's why:  We never said a word about finding anything so that we purposefully wouldn't mislead anyone and that others wouldn't mislead more...and so on and so on. The only mention by us about finding anything other than shipwrecks was buried in one posting on our blog where we said samples were recovered and sent for analysis.  This came after a local paper was chattering about some sort of samples, yet knew nothing of their nature, origin, or destination (Mos made some short statement).  The ones chatting about it is the media (Dateline,  via Tim Miller, Greta, etc).  They'll mislead you (not intentionally), not us. 

It works like this and you can take this to the bank:  As far as this case goes and others... the more someone says about anything the more you will be mislead by them.  If what they say contains even slight inaccuracies, those errors accumulate and propogate through the media like a game of telephone.  Ever play the game, telephone?  It's fascinating to watch when you're the one who sends the first message and watches it while it gets twisted and transformed person to person.  Now imagine when you have something given to the press and it's translated into Papiamento... then to Dutch... then to English (or any combination of the three).  They do the best they can and most mean well. 

Now ask yourself the question:  Why is there so much variety and discord among theories floating around on the net about this case? A majority of the source material was made available by... the media.  Also, it's a very complicated case.  Of course this is all just my opinion.   

Unless I have missed something, there has been no announcement of a major break in the case, and as amazing as this group is, we cannot wish it so. I think we had better relax a little bit and simply keep the pressure on, and as soon as their is a break, someone will surely let us know. I am just as anxious, probably more so, than most, to learn of a true finding or break but I just can't will it so. I do see the pressure getting to Joran, I do see the affect of the boycott significantly and negatively affecting Aruba, so I know we are being effective. Breaking Joran and causing unhappiness in Aruba with their present leaders is how we will get justice for Natalee. Supporting the Persistence is how we will find Natalee for Beth so that she can take her baby home. There are clearly two jobs to be done, and if we support each other we make each other stronger. Personally, I am amazed at how well everyone has and is working together and I only hope it continues. I change that to I know it will.

FBI know the truth


ain't that right Mister Robots

Back!

I would lay down my life for any one of you here, as I am sure you would for me.  Eagles don't flock.

You have to find them one at a time!

That the materials don't match means nothing. Maybe I just don't get it.......

well I will say two things...
One THANK YOU Private Eye...... for the kind words about Red.  He isn't arrogant and I won't even bother with a pissing contest on that front.  He still has the scar from the search in the landfill and never NOT once has ever complained about it... NEVER!!!  I of course, being the wife will fight for him for hell and highwater.

I will ALSO say that RED will never mislead anyone for any reason - so many times behind the scenes he gets mislead (not saying Beth or Dave here) it's disheartening  - and yet he stands strong. Let me remind you monkeys that Shango posted here and only here and that was good enough for Dave's book, you provided many many leads for the attys and others to follow - the internet isn't interring with this case unless you happen to be a stepmother, a paid troll or from the tourism authority.

The only thing that interferes with this case is a cover up from assbites protecting one of their own.

Kyle,

The question we would like for you to answer with something other than 'no comment' is as follows:

What can we do to help, other than pray?

OT:  Okay friends, I need to ask for your help in calming down.  I just received one of those calls no one ever wants to get.  Some of you know one of my daughters is a firefighter/EMT.  The state police just call my husband (who is not at home with me) to say that our daughter was driving the ambulance when it flipped/rolled on the highway between DC and Baltimore.  The patiant and attendee are trapped in the back. My daughter's condition is unknown and the third EMT in the passanger side is okay but banged up.  They are anywhere from 1 - 2 hours from our home.  State police do not want us to go to the scene but will call us when they know where they will be taking her.  Said it could be an hour or more.

This trooper is standing right there.  Why is he saying her condition is unknow and insisting that we not come to the scene if they are going to be there that long?  This feels bad and I can't do a thing about it.

I hate to pour this out here and now but I have been close to some of you over time and we seem to help each other through tough times.  Please pray she is okay with me? ::MonkeyNoNo::

Anidac - OMG, I pray she's ok

Gunslinger, I think you have the right idea.

Good nite all.

Soooo........Ocean, what in the world was in that trap? ::MonkeyLaugh::

praying right now Andiac

Dear God I pray that anidac's daughter is ok. 

We're praying for you and your daughter, anidac.

Red doesn't need kind words from me, he is the real deal, a good man. And so is Ocean Ex. To tell you the truth, everyone I have met around here are simply good folks, real good folks.

Why do I get the impression if Red ever tried to do any different though that you just might stop that cold:)))))))))) Just kidding

We are under attack!!!!

This ends here and now!

I will get on my knees for you and your daughter!

Who kneels with me?

Me, too, Anidac.  Big time.

Private...
now what ever gave you that idea??/ ::MonkeyHaHa::

this case has made have a take no prisioners attitude ever since that first search.... OMG they way they have messed with Natalee's family and friends....

My prayers are with you. WHEN YOU CAN, please let us know how she is doing and if we can help.

You are Not Alone....We are Praying.....Dear Lord Be with This Family and Comfort Them! In Jesus Name...Amen

Calm down Anidac.  She is fine.  I am sure.  Will hubby be home soon or will you
be alone to wait for news?

seems like aruba has tried to spin the silence from the FBI... i don't recall that the FBI has actually said it wasn't her clothing... it was written (ok the article I read) to suggest they had commented... make sense??

I kneel with you and all here.  I pray that your daughter is safe and unharmed.

Hello all.  I have lurked for a long time...Back in 2005 I posted several times as NewsJunkie.  I am humbled that most of the people from the beginning are still here and hopeful.  God Bless

I think God might have brought this flock of Eagles together. That spirit is what makes this group so special. I have 2 old walnut trees that are living on the edge if prices don't go down:)

Praying for you and her andiac.
Will your husband be with you soon?
Stay in touch here please!

anidac those ambulances are made real strong.  We have one in our business that we converted.  They're like an armored car.  She couldn't be in a safer vehicle.  My whole family is in the living room on bended knee praying for you and yours.   

First, I agree whole-heartedly with you Mrs. Red.  Please send Red my regards and my appologies for hurt feelings.  He's a good, dedicated, loyal man, hard worker, and certainly a monkey of monkeys.

Also, Private Eye: Thank you for the kind words, but particularly the bit about coming together as one.  You are definitely on the mark.

As for what you can all do to help other than pray... honestly I don't have the answer.  The collective IQ of all the Monkeys is about 10 million.  How about you continue to be Monkeys and keep doing what you do best.  With Red, Klaasend and all the rest beside you... you won't fail. 

(((((((((((((Anidac's Dear Daughter))))))))))))

May the Light of all that is Great and Powerful, surround and protect you with Love and Grace....May You be Blessed. May You be Safe....Amen

Sending Prayers for Calmness for Aninac...

??

(http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a164/Wick3dsbaby/th_thgreenshirt3.bmp)

(http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a164/Wick3dsbaby/th_thgreenshirt.bmp)

(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a164/Wick3dsbaby/nat_beachcopy.jpg)

We are all standing around you and praying...please feel that warmth -God is listening.

They just called.  We are meeting them at University Med Center in Baltimore I think.  Hubby knows.  Still won't tell us a thing about her condition.  But tell us about everyone else.  She was driving.  Patiant and attendee still trapped but okay.  All lanes closed.

Check later if everything is okay.  Much later.  It's a long drive and a busy hospital.  Bye and thank you all.

anidac my thoughts and prayers are with you now.

Anidac,

Prayers here too.

Please keep us udated.

Sent a prayer up the minute I saw your post Andiac!  Prayers for your daughter and that you will feel a calm from all of the thoughts and prayers that are coming your way.  I hope your husband will be with you soon.  Please keep us posted.

Drive careful - we will continue to pray

prayer chain monkeys? 
just informally... we will be praying 24 hours ...

I read in other reports that they have a duplicate dress that Natalee wore and not the same exact dress to test the material. Also I wish we had the original video of the Park Ranger carrying that material because it looks much more like her top then the pictures.

Why do I have a vivid memory of that video? My memory is that the searcher with the fabric was not treating it as evidence and actually tossed it into the wind at the end of the tape! Does anyone else remember that?
Later, there was a statement that the fabric was meaningless and not at related to Natalee or the case.
Have I lost my mind?  ::MonkeyEek:: again?

I'm glad there is someone else not getting it.....

Drive carefully anidac!
We are holding you and yours up in prayer.

Anidac, prayers are out for your daughter. Be calm, take good care of yourself. Everything will be fine.

This is of course speculation -

When did ALE get the sample?  Did they get everything, or just a piece?  What did the 'FBI' actually get?  Did they get what was found in that cage?

If the pictures were taken at the end of December, where was the material all that time?

There is no doubt in my mind!

If you decide to harvest that wood, I would be more than happy to help you with it.  God will tell you what to do with it.  I wish I could share the story of this wood with you.

Did you know that walnut gets a more intense red (almost purple!) the closer you get to the roots?  Just like our blood!

Prayers for Anidac her husband and their daughter.  Praying for the best possible outcome.

How would ALE know the FBI already had an exact match of Natalee blouse?  Would the NFI have the same thing for comparison?  Could something of Natalee's have been recovered over two years ago during some search?  Perhaps from the rocks?  Could the FBI/ALE have recovered say fabric fibers from a car, the dump, or some other place?

I have the video downloaded someplace.  I think they cut part of the video out though.

They only close all lanes for one reason.

Big prayers going out to Anidac and family.

Just wanted to let Anidac know her family is in my prayers.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your daughter and family!

They close all lanes if there are people trapped in vehicles in any wreck....be/think positive!

Prayers from my home to Anidac and family. 

Beans

My question is not how would they have a comparison fabric with which to check Natalee's blouse as much as how could they take an unknown scrap of fabric which likely doesn't even resemble Natalees blouse by visual observation, test it ---and say it is not Natalee. Again, if she wore nothing, and was wrapped in a tarp, the fabrics would not match. Yet would it not be possible that it be her?

My prayers to andiac, daughter and all involved...........

I will keep your daughter, your family and the others involved in my prayers.
God BLESS!!

d

Could it be for a flight for life helicopter?  I've seen that a few times and it is amazing where they can land, how small the space is, and how quickly they take off again.

I will pray for her daughter and the others.

keeping Andiac lifted in prayers.. .. and signing out for a while... I am exhausted!

Keep the faith monkeys....

stand with the girl

Oh Poo...I wasn't going to do this...but here goes anyway....who else *saw* the leg bone protruding from the bottom of the whatever material it is, in one of the photos that Robin posted?

Maybe cheer, donate, and take your lead if and when something slips to respect your judgment and follow your lead:) if it is something you have direct knowledge of

Prayers here too. Please try to remain calm and keep us updated. Hugs, Shell

I did and I also saw a pelvic bone just a little above it.

The press release stated what it was not.  There is much that it could be. 

What kind of cloth was it?  Organic?  Manmade?  Was it something common?  Bedsheet?  Was it plaid?  What was that large flat looking thing?  Was that the fabric?  Was there something in that object?

Was there more than one kind of cloth or fabric recovered?

What of the things that didn't look like cloth?

O/T and I will quit after this, there was a man here who got $3000 for one tree that is when I started telling mine goodbye

I'm praying this is good news, or the best we could hope for:

http://www.abc2news.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=7bb980b1-22fa-4429-b317-8e98f20c7227

Ambulance Involved Accident

Last Update: 10:26 pm 

        A privately owned ambulance was involved in a multiple vehicle accident on 295-N at 695 in Anne Arundel County around 8:00pm.

        Fire crews at the scene told ABC2 that 7 people have been transported to University of Maryland Shock Trauma with non-threatening injuries.
        295-N at 695 has been shut down temporarily while crews are working to clear the accident.

        Stay with ABC2 as this story develops.

about 18 years ago...in Northern Ca....a very large black walnut tree sold for $20,000.

You are the best Klaas.  It is such a relief to read that.

Thank you for finding that Klaas.  This makes me feel a little better.  I'll sure be glad to hear from anidac.  I know it'll be a while.

thanks Klaas

Thank You Klaas! I will continue to pray for Anidac and Her Family and All Others Involved!

I saw nothing but a crab trap

I'll watch for updates.  I tried to see if Anidac has her PDA on and mobile AIM working but she doesn't.  Thought I could let her know what they are reporting.

Thank You Klaasend.

Whew... I thought it was just me.  The quality of the photo was unreal though.  As if you were snorkeling...

BINGO, I have been studying the photos and have noticed exactly what you are refereing to. One photo shows it more clearly than the other. It sticks out a few inches or so. I just showed my wife all the photos and the first thing she says is that it looks like a body was wrapped in a blanket and oh yeah, there is the skull!!

Yes a real testament to the abilities of the Persistence and their equipment, IMO

Anidac~
Just saw your posting, praying right now for your daughter, you, your husband and all the others injured right now. Praying for all to be ok.

Roos~

I must admit that the resolution of your monitor makes a big difference. My new 21" monitor is 1680 x 1050 (analog). I see much more than I used to! How about you monkeys with digital?

Anidac,
I am 25 minutes to Baltimore via the Baltimore Washington Parkway. What can I do to help? I am praying, of course.

Anne Arundel County: MD 295 NORTH BTWN I-695 & I-895 
Type Location Direction Details
Incident
(Collision) Anne Arundel County
[MD 295 NORTH BTWN I-695 & I-895] North 2 vehicles involved.
2 of 2 Northbound traffic lanes closed.
2 of 2 Northbound shoulders closed.
Created: 2/29/2008 9:14:05 PM by SOC.

 http://www.chart.state.md.us/TravInfo/trafficEvents.asp

21" monitor??  Geez, that's almost bigger than me  ::MonkeyHaHa::  I feel insignificant now with my tiny 17" monitor.  ::MonkeyWink::

Maggie - all you can do is pray for Anidac's daughter and the others in the accident.  Anidac is on her way there now.  It's going to take her a while to get there.

I'm not going to touch this one... but I will say this:
By openly discussing what you see in the pictures with eachother you will ruin all objectivity and make unbiased observations of the object under inspection impossible for others.

   

the accident is northbound between the baltimore beltway and the exit to the baltimore tunnel. all northbound lanes are closed, which means for someone in one of the collisions they're bringing a helicopter (they close all lanes for it to land).

the best info you can get is at http://www.chart.state.md.us/TravInfo/trafficCams.asp

...reported it on Feb.26...the Persistance has found something has now been confirmed.  Human remains were found and these sent to the FBI lab in Quantico. The report came back this morning stating that the tests exclude Natalee Holloway. ...Then the thread title changed to 'fabric'...the original report does not match Tito's report... According to the OM statement, it was fabric found in the crab trap. Not human remains.

...I don't buy it.  Tim would not have called Dave for just fabric.  The pics we saw show a trap with more in it than just fabric.  The FBI are not telling Mos the results, other than the fabric is not what she wore on her last night in Aruba.  In other words, the FBI are not saying ANYTHING!  That's as it should be.

::MonkeyConfused::
What gets me about this is that the peson reporting what they were seeing in the crab trap said they saw A HUMAN SKULL, that is a pretty specific thing to "see".  Granted, we humans have a natural pattern identification in our brains and the features of a human face is the most easily identified pattern.  So, in looking at a pattern of snow, lines, etc. it is possible someone would "see" a face (eyes, nose, mouth), but a "skull" ... I don't know, that seems very specific to me. 

Yeppers....and, a possible pair of shoes against the far end of the cage...above and to the right of skull...

   

praying that all will turn out ok ==sl

Well, that is where I don't fully grasp your intentions. Why does it matter what we here "speculate" on? How are we ruining "objectivity"? We are not the "authorities". If YOU don't wish to speculate -- fine! We understand. You can tell us if we are WAY off base or say nothing.

OE,
I'll understand if you have no comment or no response to my reply:
My question for your consideration:
Is the trap in the pictures approximately 4ft X 5.5 ft X 17 in?
TIA...Your efforts and those of the Persistence are truly remarkable!

I thought people saw the tennis shoes in the drainage ditch with the bag that the body was in.  How are the shoes in the crab trap also? 

I think Janet will find this persons speculations interesting on the map she made. I have been told it is nearly impossible to launch a boat on that NE side of the island but it doesnt mean they couldnt drive in that direction. I don't put much thought into this persons speculations,just interesting is all about the location.

(http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/6992/map1zb7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)


http://youtube.com/watch?v=yFh22feS4tY

Good point, but if everyone else takes this advice too then that means their observations would be known only to them. And who's objectivity would we be tainting I wonder??

Hmmmm...

 ::MonkeyEek::

No more crab cage speculation from me!!

Otay....will zip my widdle Monkey mouth shut...until you tell me to unzip it...K?   BTW...you really should say the same thing to all the posters on the front page. JMOO

ps,  Thank You and the rest of the crew for all your hard work.

Oceanexplorer - is there anything else you'ld like to ask us not to discuss?

I cannot see anything significant.  I squinted ... closed one eye and ... then the other.  I layed my head on one shoulder and ... then the other.  I put my chin in the air and looked down and ... then on my chest and looked up.  NOTHING.

However ... I do take some comfort ... I am not alone.  The Aruban and Persistance Dive Team gave the thumbs down when they reach the trap ... they did not see anything significant either.

Janet

+++++++++++

The search for Natalee Holloway
It's the story you haven't heard: the tale of two parents who, even now, willgo anywhere -- and endure anything -- to find answers.

TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

<snipped>

On Christmas Eve sonar pictures revealed what looked like a large trap, almost exactly where Tim Miller theorized it would be.
And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.
 
Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.

Chris Hansen: So, you're thinking-- you're thinking at this point--
 
Tim Miller: I’m thinking at this point, "Oh, my God, maybe we've got something. Maybe we've got something."

Could they have found her? Or was hope, perhaps, making them see what they wanted to see?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/

<snipped>

On Dec. 30, off the coast of Aruba, divers from the Aruban police force and the research vessel Persistence were about to make a crucial dive on a promising target in the search for Natalee Holloway.
 
The researchers had discovered a fish trap about 90 feet below the surface in almost the exact spot search expert Tim Miller had theorized Natalee’s body might be.

Team leader Tim Trahan suited up to join the Aruban police divers. As Tim Miller wished him well, the divers hit the water and the ROV was sent down to capture what would happen for everyone watching on board.

(On the boat) Brandon: We have visual on divers and target.

Slowly the divers worked their way down to the trap. They had been instructed to give a thumbs up or thumbs down.  The atmosphere in the survey room was tense, and nerves were raw as Miller, the Aruban authorities and the crew of the Persistence waited for word of what exactly was in the trap. The divers approached the target and signaled above. And then...

(On the boat) No it's thumbs down. Negative, not it.

Crushing disappointment.

(On the boat) Tim Miller: Divers coming up right now. I don't know it looked as promising today as it did last night or before.

Miller: Nothing?

Trahan: No.

Chris Hansen: That had to be a crushing blow.

Tim Miller: It was a crushing blow.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/

More accident news:
Overturned Ambulance Sends Seven to ER

  ABC 7 News - Share Overturned Ambulance Sends Seven to ER  ABC 7 News - Print Overturned Ambulance Sends Seven to ER  ABC 7 News - Email Overturned Ambulance Sends Seven to ER  ABC 7 News - RSS Feeds  ABC 7 News - Send Overturned Ambulance Sends Seven to ER via Instant Messager
ABC 7 News - Share This Article
An ambulance overturned on I-295 Friday night, sending a total of seven people to area hospitals, including four to shock trauma.

It happened at the Baltimore/Anne Arundel County line Friday night.

Fire officials say of the seven patients taken to area hospital, four were sent to a trauma center and three were sent to the University of Maryland Emergency Department. All have non-life threatening injuries.

The crash involved a private ambulance, a car and an SUV.

It happened in the northbound lanes, shutting them down.

Maryland State Police are investigating.

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0208/500334.html
There is a photo of the ambulance here as well.
Sounds OK, still praying here

Please don't misunderstand me... I'm not saying be quiet.  I obviously don't care if it's discussed.  I was just trying to throw out a tip for making unbiased observation.
It's like an ink blot test.  9 different people can look at the same ink blot and see 9 different images.  The best imagination of the bunch will end up winning and the majority after discussion will see the same image in the ink blot. 

Well, how abou twe study this picture. The more I look at it, the more I just realy like this little guy! Especially with that bad ass chain he's sporting.

(http://i27.tinypic.com/sxkd3s.jpg)

OK, Anidac said they were going to University Medical Center, is that a trauma hospital?

I know that my opinion is worth nothing here as I  do not come up with wild theories but I think we should all wait until the people on the Persistance give us some DEFINITE information.  They are the ones in the trenches doing the dirty work, not us.  We should let them tell us when it is time and not feel entitled to know every move they make.  Yes we are here to support the family and find justice for Natalee but we should let the experts do their work and not try not to speculate.

Hi to all..First time trying to post so if I mess it up..please don't hold it against me.

It seems like these pictures must be somewhat important or why would they have been
sent here by Robin? (do I have this right?)

Does anyone actually know how big this cage-trap-other is ? I'm atttaching this to
Ocean (Kyle's) message as it seems he is most likely to know.

I love the monkey emoticons...wish I could use them for my business email's

Thanks

Looks like it.
http://www.umm.edu/shocktrauma/

Welcome Sea Searcher!   ::MonkeyDance::  ::MonkeyCool::

LOL-- "SilverFox" has been using that as his Avatar for quite awhile -- deadringer for "Larry King"!!! ::MonkeyHaHa::

Seems to me the people on the Persistence are getting ready to go home.  We are just wondering why all the hullabaloo. We aren't asking them for every move they make, we aren't insisting that Kyle give us answers, we're simply discussing it.  Isn't that ok?

Hello Sea Searcher!

I like Him too!!!  Seems like one very determined widdle Monkey to me!

So she's probably one of the four sent to Trauma even though not life threatening, could still be life changing.  I'll continue to pray.

Welcome Sea Searcher!   ::MonkeyDance::

Sea Searcher - welcome to SM  ::MonkeyCool::

Now that I look closer, the same hospital has ER as well. It looks state of the art, if you need that kind of treatment.
Still praying here but feeling much better about her.

Rumors of the moment - Joran in hospital & bone and trap found!

Why keep looking?  Perhaps this is the biggest disinformation campaign to date? 

Let those at the blogs convince themselves that Natalee has been found and that there is no need to keep look?

No need to raise funds for a continue search?

No need to educate the public?

No need to keep the case in the news?

Search over?  Case closed?  Justice for Natalee?

Sorry for the DP, but I didn't add this link:

Emergency Services at the University of Maryland Medical Center:
http://www.umm.edu/emergencyserv/index.htm

Why is Dick Cheney in Aruba?

(http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7656/avionfm9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Diario Newspaper March 1st 2008
Air force 2 owing to descend at aruba ... maximum security at airports
 saturday, 01 march 2008 oranjestad (aan):

Last aeropuerto of aruba was have extra security hour cu air force 2, one c-boeing 32 owing to descend. For of nightfall end was talk of the arrival of the plane here at aruba, which is esun ordinarily using for transport of the vice president of markets. Polisnan owing to being notifies for extra surveillance of airport rond. So cu owing to the plane descend 9'or of diabierna one night quantity of equipment owing to send for being give pabao attendance at the part where the plane owing to staciona. Was talk cu dick cheney will is there of the plane cu all his own safety cu owing to achieve autorizacion for march arm at aruba. Esnan cu owing to arrive there will bandona aruba monday morning.

Saturday morning will actuate the plane for one more part pabao close of caserne of bombero because airport is druk and the plane is coy much space. The part which is close cu plane is using for bay runway will let the air force 2 stop. On the photograph here can see more of the plane just past hour cu owing to descend at end of aruba.

http://news.diario-aruba.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1267&Itemid=30

Nope - we continue as we have been

A Big Welcome here too Seasearcher!

From my observation....this is indeed a Discussion Thread.  Keep plugging away Monkeys.  I'm signing out for tonight.  I likely will not be online for about 2-3 days.  We lose Internet service tonight.  I'll do my best to keep updates about the search coming at:
http://nholloway.blogspot.com (http://nholloway.blogspot.com)

Good night all, and may God bring Justice for Natalee, peace, healing, and restoration to the broken hearted.

Thanks for the Welcome..as you see I'm a bit nervous (atttaching)

I've been reading here steadily since the re-arrest (if you call it that) but
followed this tragedy from the beginning at RWV until the tone seemed to
change from Dan after a theory posted by someone called scubajap which
left the J2K out of it...not sure why as they are guilty as hell in my opinion.

You guys are incredible..I've tried to post before but by the time I start, it's
been said 10 times already...not a fast typer

Thanks again

******* - are you serious?   ::MonkeyEek:: what paper is that in?

Hopefully to tell asswipe Ober as of today NO more americans allowed in Aruba

 ::MonkeyShocked::

Rumors of the moment - Joran in hospital & bone and trap found!

Why keep looking?  Perhaps this is the biggest disinformation campaign to date?

Let those at the blogs convince themselves that Natalee has been found and that there is no need to keep look?

No need to raise funds for a continue search?

No need to educate the public?

No need to keep the case in the news?

Search over?  Case closed?  Justice for Natalee?

Paulus with a sword in his neck?

Um, is it dove hunting season on Aruba?
 ::MonkeyCool::

Welcome Sea Searcher!

Kyle: if you have any pictures you can share please send them to Klaas as we want to show everyone the hard work and unbelievable determination the Persistence has shown the last 3 months. Take care!

You know Ocean. we are not really to blame for all of the misinformation
on the internet.  The AHATA has had paid people on the internet
spreading rumors since the first week that Natalee went missing, ie Renfro
We have done all we could to correct what has been said that we could
prove wrong.  It hasn't been easy.
I am not saying that you said that we had made the errors.  I know that you didn't.

Maybe OL Dick is going to Give Ol John a nice fat check for the search
Dont all those rich people know each other

Well, we can dream -- can't we!?!?
This is really, really, really intriguing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tommorows Diario!

Now....that would be SWEET  ::MonkeyDance::

HAHAHHA, maybe he's going down their to shoot someone in the azz!!


 ::MonkeyDance::

Duck!

I heard it's *open* season on azzes in Aruba...

Yup hopefully he takes Paulus out for some Dove Hunting  ::MonkeyWink::

from 24ora.com

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/4000/1/

Thank you OE and Red.  We are all just tired and frustrated.  Thank all of you and I do pray for that woman's daughter and her friends and patients in the ambulance and all who are injured.  Jack b

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyCool::

I don't see Cheney's name, so he's not there?

Anidac ... you and your precious family are in my prayer.  May you feel God's presence and  ... may His presence give you peace and strength to endure.  Hold on tight to the Heavenly Father ... He is the anchor that holds in the storms of our lives.

Sincerely, Janet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Friday, February 29, 2008
XVIII. Sonar Search Complete

Update: Fri 29-Feb 2330 hrs

Since the 16th of December, off the west coast of Aruba the search team on board the RV Persistence has been combing the sea floor of an area 80% the size of Aruba. The Herculean side scan sonar search is nearing completion. Once finished, a final ROV dive target list will be constructed. This list is expected to well-exceed 100 targets. The timing and extent of the remaining ROV dive operations depends on weather, logistics, and funding.
The team is weary, yet filled with a sense of accomplishment. The team has performed very well even under the intense pressure, difficult terrain, rough seas, and often grueling pace.


http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

 
 
 

y want

I am sure they are not heading home because they want to.  This type of operation takes money and if the money is not there they cannot continue.  Discussion is one thing but posting theories that have NO basis in truth is another.  When we come up with things that are not based on fact and others here run with it, it makes us no better than other sites not so sympathetic to the family.  I think we need to stick to the FACTS and let those who know what they are doing do their work.  None of us here are detectives, CSI, or DNA experts. 

Good Night Monkeys.

Janet
9:10 PM

Nite Janet

Maybe he wanted to personally donate to the search effort, I did email him.... ::MonkeyRoll::

Casa - I do understand what you are saying but this is a discussion forum.  That's what we do is discuss different aspects, facts, theories in the case.  We do the same in other missing persons cases.

Wait a minute... I get out of the shower... get ready to head back to my bunk for the night... I hit refresh one last time...and there's a picture of Air Force One in Aruba.  Can someone please confirm this? 

About a month ago I stated things were about to get very interesting.  This isn't what I had in mind.   
::MonkeyEek::

FOUND HIM  ::MonkeyHaHa:: At the Senior Frog's VIP party  ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/VIP_Party__8_cheney.jpg)

He may not be as I think it says that is normally his plane and there was talk of him being on it. That 24ora site however just names Homeland Security personnel. I thought Air Force 2 was just for him but maybe that is not the case always.

Kyle - not sure but it may be some kind of Homeland Security meeting.

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/4000/1/

Goodnight Janet.

Well casa, in all due respect -- speculating, theorizing, researching, and postulating is exactly why we are all here. Throw a million ideas against the wall and odds are -- one will stick. Putting your faith in one avenue is pure folley. The power of each of us putting our "wild theories" out there can only help. We analyze, examine, and argue -- that is how the truth comes out!

Air Force two is definetly in Aruba but we aren't sure yet if it's just for the Home Land Security personnel and what they are meeting about or if Dick Cheney is even in Aruba.

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=97780

What others say
Saturday, March 1, 2008

Lale ŞIVGIN, Tercüman

The land operation in northern Iraq continues successfully amid political developments.

United States Vice President Dick Cheney canceled a trip to Turkey.

Political analysts in Ankara think this is got to do with Ahmet Davutoğlu, chief adviser to Prime Minister.

Davutoğlu did not give a specific timeline for the pull out.

U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates insisted the incursion should end shortly.

But the Chief of General Staff Gen. Yaşar Büyükanıt says “short time” is a relative term.

International community is worried if Turkey becomes a determinant factor in Kirkuk and Mosul policies and claims rights over the region.

Does Turkey plan to control Kirkuk and Mosul?

There is no certain answer to this because many believe Kirkuk and Mosul are indispensable strategically but others argue this calls trouble and Turkey would be harmed by that.

Today, Mosul is a deadlock standing in front of us.

Length of the incursion, disintegration of Iraq, impact of fragmented Iraq on Turkey and our legal rights in the region are vital in this.

And what theories have been posted recently that are any different in their speculative nature than what has already been discussed regarding what happened to Natalee? Theories and hypothesis are posited with the understanding that that one needs to prove or disprove the theory in order to get one step closer to the truth. Coming up with theories involves making speculations and by and large I don't see what the issue is.

Isn't that what this entire site is about?

I heard the Mason elders were having a party  ::MonkeyWink:: j/k

Seriously TM Did You?  ::MonkeyShocked::

Don't be to sure none of these monkeys aren't. After reading for years, there are nothing but intelligent,educated,great people. If this world were all monkeys, it would be a better place. Klass may not be a DNA expert, but damn right persistent and adamant this shit coverup gets exposed. Sorry for throwing you under the bus Klass... ::MonkeyLaugh::

Thanks Klaasend.  That makes sense. 

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong... but by my understanding, officially speaking any plane or helicopter which contains the President of the US is called Air Force One and with the Vice President... Air Force Two.  Again, I would google/wiki-it to be certain.   

~K

OK, that is wicked distrurbing!!

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Aruba/timmillercrabtrap-1.jpg)

You are Correct

Paul Rosenzweig, Department of Homeland Security's (DHS) Counselor to the Assistant Secretary for the Policy and Acting Assistant Secretary for International Affairs

He is a big advocate of using travel records to track terriorist.

LOL, then why go to Aruba? Didn't anyone tell him that nobody travels their anymore?

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

You have it exactly right. Any aircraft with the President  aboard is automatically "Air Force One." The Vice President's aircraft is automatically "Air Force 2". If the Vice President is not aboard -- it does not carry the designation "Air Force 2." Also, by law - the President and Vice President cannot ever travel on the same plane.

Yes, PC...Here it is, excluding my personal information of course.

 
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

emailed the following 2/25/08
comments@whitehouse.gov (Bush)
vice_president@whitehouse.gov (Cheney)

Dear Sirs,
An ocean search has been in progress off of the coast of Aruba for over two months now, funded entirely by a true American hero, Louis Schaefer Jr. of Underwater Expeditions .  The search is a very sophisticated effort to find the remains of missing American Natalee Holloway from Alabama.  Natalee has been missing since May 30, 2005.  The original search area has been greatly extended and therefore the costs of this effort have greatly increased.  Individuals that have followed the case have made donations to help continue the search, but have not raised the necessary funds needed to complete the search.  It would be a travesty for the search to be discontinued at this point, many targets have been identified and the search could be adequately complete in approximately three weeks.  I understand from someone close to the search that a decision will be made in the next 24-48 hours as to the future of the search.  Please help with a donation or contact those you know who can help with this effort.

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/ 

The following has been snipped from the web site listed above;
 
The dedicated ocean search for Natalee Holloway has been underway since mid-November, 2007. What began in Louisiana during mobilization now culminating in Aruba, the search has utilized some of the best search equipment and personnel in the world. To date, approximately 900 miles of sonar data has been collected covering a geographic area 80% the size of Aruba. The search has required a painstakingly slow approach which in the end leaves no stone unturned.
 
Although slow, this approach is extremely effective in marine search and recovery. Since the beginning, the search has been privately funded by Louis Schaefer Jr. of Underwater Expeditions who remarkably and gracefully accepted the financial burden when requested by Texas Equusearch and Natalee's parents. John Silvetti of Marine Surveys, Greg Landry of Offshore Innovative Solutions, Erik McGuire of Seatronics, along with Agiosat and Wilkens Weather Service came beside Louis to conduct this humanitarian effort. To put this search effort in financial perspective, an equivalent search conducted for industry would involve costs well exceeding several million dollars. This project has been conducted for about 35 cents on the dollar, with costs still exceeding a million dollars.
 
Although we have searched and ruled out an extensive portion of the original planned search area, a substantial portion of the high-probability area yet remains to be explored. Now, following a publicly confirmed admission that Natalee Holloway was disposed at sea, we are confident that completing the focused search area will bring closure. We therefore formally invite and request anyone who this humanitarian effort has touched to get involved and to help support the remaining search efforts. Donations are being handled by Texas Equusearch, a 501 (c) (3) nonprofit organization. Please come beside those who have already given so much to help ensure a proper funeral in Alabama for Natalee Holloway. Please make all donations marked as: "Holloway search".
 
To learn more about Texas Equusearch and to help support the search for Natalee Holloway, check out: http://www.texasequusearch.org/donate.html
 
Texas EquuSearch Office:
4013 FM 517, Suite B
Dickinson, Texas 77539
P. O. Box 395, Dickinson, Texas 77539
 
Office: (281) 309-9500
Fax: (281) 534-6719
Toll Free: (877) 270-9500
Email: donate@texasequusearch.org
 
Please do anything and everything you can to make sure that this search is completed.  As the parent of a son Natalee's age, I have followed this case from the beginning.  My oldest son went on his 2005 senior trip to London and was on his way to the airport that July morning when the bombs went off in the subways.  My husband and I along with another couple spent about 12 hours not knowing if our sons were safe.  It was the most horrible day I've experienced since I've had my children.  We received the call from our boys after they landed in the states and heard what had happened.  I can only imagine what Natalee Holloway's parents have been through for the past three years.....I don't even like to imagine that.  If I had enough money to donate what is needed for this search to be completed...it would be done.  I don't, and that is why I am forwarding this information to people that I know can help or know others that can.
 
Thank you for your consideration in this matter.
 
God Bless the United States of America.
 
Sincerely,
 
deleted

Response that I immediately received:

Thank you for e-mailing Vice President Cheney.  Your comments,
suggestions and concerns are important to him.  Unfortunately,
because of the large volume of e-mail received, the Vice
President cannot personally respond to each message.  However,
members of the Vice President's staff consider and report
citizen ideas and concerns.  Please visit the White House web
site for the most up-to-date information on Presidential
initiatives, current events, and topics of interest to you.

Thank you again for taking the time to write.

Ocean, they have come to see the trap and the bones. ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

Diario is definately saying Air Force 2 and mentions Dick Cheney.  Will be interresting to find out what this is really all about and if Cheney is there or not.

WoW! Texasmom I am very proud of you!! Excellent!!

Now....that's one kick-ass letter!!!   Very Proud of YOU...yes I am!

Yes, PC...Here it is, excluding my personal information of course.

 
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

emailed the following 2/25/08
comments@whitehouse.gov (Bush)
vice_president@whitehouse.gov (Cheney)

Dear Sirs,
An ocean search has been in progress off of the coast of Aruba for over two months now, funded entirely by a true American hero, Louis Schaefer Jr. of Underwater Expeditions .  The search is a very sophisticated effort to find the remains of missing American Natalee Holloway from Alabama.  Natalee has been missing since May 30, 2005.  The original search area has been greatly extended and therefore the costs of this effort have greatly increased.  Individuals that have followed the case have made donations to help continue the search, but have not raised the necessary funds needed to complete the search.  It would be a travesty for the search to be discontinued at this point, many targets have been identified and the search could be adequately complete in approximately three weeks.  I understand from someone close to the search that a decision will be made in the next 24-48 hours as to the future of the search.  Please help with a donation or contact those you know who can help with this effort.

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/ 

The following has been snipped from the web site listed above;
 
The dedicated ocean search for Natalee Holloway has been underway since mid-November, 2007. What began in Louisiana during mobilization now culminating in Aruba, the search has utilized some of the best search equipment and personnel in the world. To date, approximately 900 miles of sonar data has been collected covering a geographic area 80% the size of Aruba. The search has required a painstakingly slow approach which in the end leaves no stone unturned.
 
Although slow, this approach is extremely effective in marine search and recovery. Since the beginning, the search has been privately funded by Louis Schaefer Jr. of Underwater Expeditions who remarkably and gracefully accepted the financial burden when requested by Texas Equusearch and Natalee's parents. John Silvetti of Marine Surveys, Greg Landry of Offshore Innovative Solutions, Erik McGuire of Seatronics, along with Agiosat and Wilkens Weather Service came beside Louis to conduct this humanitarian effort. To put this search effort in financial perspective, an equivalent search conducted for industry would involve costs well exceeding several million dollars. This project has been conducted for about 35 cents on the dollar, with costs still exceeding a million dollars.
 
Although we have searched and ruled out an extensive portion of the original planned search area, a substantial portion of the high-probability area yet remains to be explored. Now, following a publicly confirmed admission that Natalee Holloway was disposed at sea, we are confident that completing the focused search area will bring closure. We therefore formally invite and request anyone who this humanitarian effort has touched to get involved and to help support the remaining search efforts. Donations are being handled by Texas Equusearch, a 501 (c) (3) nonprofit organization. Please come beside those who have already given so much to help ensure a proper funeral in Alabama for Natalee Holloway. Please make all donations marked as: "Holloway search".
 
To learn more about Texas Equusearch and to help support the search for Natalee Holloway, check out: http://www.texasequusearch.org/donate.html
 
Texas EquuSearch Office:
4013 FM 517, Suite B
Dickinson, Texas 77539
P. O. Box 395, Dickinson, Texas 77539
 
Office: (281) 309-9500
Fax: (281) 534-6719
Toll Free: (877) 270-9500
Email: donate@texasequusearch.org
 
Please do anything and everything you can to make sure that this search is completed.  As the parent of a son Natalee's age, I have followed this case from the beginning.  My oldest son went on his 2005 senior trip to London and was on his way to the airport that July morning when the bombs went off in the subways.  My husband and I along with another couple spent about 12 hours not knowing if our sons were safe.  It was the most horrible day I've experienced since I've had my children.  We received the call from our boys after they landed in the states and heard what had happened.  I can only imagine what Natalee Holloway's parents have been through for the past three years.....I don't even like to imagine that.  If I had enough money to donate what is needed for this search to be completed...it would be done.  I don't, and that is why I am forwarding this information to people that I know can help or know others that can.
 
Thank you for your consideration in this matter.
 
God Bless the United States of America.
 
Sincerely,
 
deleted

Response that I immediately received:

Thank you for e-mailing Vice President Cheney.  Your comments,
suggestions and concerns are important to him.  Unfortunately,
because of the large volume of e-mail received, the Vice
President cannot personally respond to each message.  However,
members of the Vice President's staff consider and report
citizen ideas and concerns.  Please visit the White House web
site for the most up-to-date information on Presidential
initiatives, current events, and topics of interest to you.

Thank you again for taking the time to write.


[/quote]


YOU ROCK, TM!! ::MonkeyDance::

d

I'm not going to touch this one... but I will say this:
By openly discussing what you see in the pictures with eachother you will ruin all objectivity and make unbiased observations of the object under inspection impossible for others.

...........
OK, so then why was this released or posted on a public board ?
..................
Guess you can tell I am in a mood. Feel like there is a kat and mousie game going on here. DNA, then fabric, still no real clarification, now a picture is posted where WE are ruining objectivity by discussing what we see ? This is a public place place open to anyone in the world who has an internet connection ! Ok, I won't tell a soul what I see. So there................ I will find some inkblots or tea leaves to look at ...........   

Wonderful Letter TM....You are Such a Thoughtful Person and I think You Are Wonderful for Doing This For Natalee and Her Family.... God Bless You Sincerely PC

Nothing wrong with discussion and analyzing.  Yes, putting your faith in one avenue might be folley but that could also apply to those that only put their faith in the fact that Joran and the Kalpoes had something to do with the disappearance of Natalee. (I do think they did by the way) Discussion and analyzing is very different than making up theories and seeing things that might not be there.  Trust me wreck no one on this  blog or any other will be the one to solve this case.  The truth will not come out by people posting theories about what they think when they are not there searching or actually seeing what is going on.  We are here to support the family and those searching for answers not to cause problems for those working to find an answer.

Thanks *******! I forgot to post this with it:

Response from President Bush:

On behalf of President Bush, thank you for your correspondence.

We appreciate hearing your views and welcome your suggestions.

Due to the large volume of e-mail received, the White House cannot respond to every message.

Thank you again for taking the time to write.

OK Bush Cheney and Who Else Did You Send Letters to....You Definitely Rock TM!  ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

Casa - So it's ok for us to discuss things but not certain things?  I'm not sure I understand. 

This is a discussion forum.  It is not just a forum to support the family although we do. I don't think we are going to solve the case but we have certainly helped gather data for the family to share with their investigators.

I'm not sure what you would like to see us do?  You want members to stop by once daily and say "they stand with the girl" then leave?

No one on the Persistance posted them to a public board. They were sent to Dave and Robin posted them on BNH and someone sent them to Klaas who posted them here.  They were never meant to be posted on a public board.

That's funny....I'd laugh...but my widdle Monkey mouth is zipped shut...may I look at tea leaves with you...we can discuss what we *see* in them...

I guess we will just agree to disagree then. I can only speak for myself -- but I'm not here merely to be a cheerleader or to be a "yes man." Many here are doing research and analysis that the "experts" never thought of. I don't put myself anywhere near that stature -- but I have followed this case enough to call bullshit on some of the work by the "experts." Second, this case is so bizarre -- NEVER assume we are getting the actual facts from anyone. I say: let's leave NO stone unturned no matter how "far fetched"  an idea might be.

Casa - that is over and done with.  Robin made a mistake, they should never have been posted on the internet at all.  Nothing is safe on the internet.  I'm sure the Admins of BNH are aware of that.  I actually wonder if they weren't posted intentionally so they would get out.  That said they can't be retracted now.

Your trees love you.  Go hug one and not with a saw.   LOL  Seriously though, they do love you.    Er....that sounds a mite strange.  lol.

Wreck - I agree

Er...Is he running for President?  He sort of looks like that old time comedian George Burns.     lol   Jack b

Incorrect.

The plane that carries the President or the Vice President is "Air Force One."

I was actually trying to find Ross Perot's email address when I found the ones for the White House.  I know that the staff there would have access to Mr. Perot's among others.  My husband and I lived on and were the caretakers of a large ranch for the first 16 years of our marriage.  The owners were from Dallas originally and had retired to our area.  They have both passed on now, but we came to know many of their friends over the years that have the means to help financially.  Many have passed on also since most were in their retirement years when we came to know them but there were still a few that I mailed a similar request to (from my Christmas card list, lol).  I haven't heard anything back from them but I'm not sure that I would.  I think if they choose to help they will do it discretely and possibly anonymously.  I still have a couple that I don't have email or mailing address for that I am willing to personnally call if I need to.

Why am I arguing with everyone tonight??? LOL
From Wikipedia:

An Air Force aircraft carrying the Vice President of the United States is designated as Air Force Two.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_One

Air Force Two
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
 
The Boeing C-32, a variant of the 757, is the usual transportation for the Vice President of the United States.
Vice President Dick Cheney using a Boeing VC-25 presidential aircraft for a visit to the Middle East in 2002.Air Force Two is the air traffic control call sign used by any United States Air Force aircraft carrying the Vice President. (snipped)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Two

God Bless You for Your Great Efforts.......Truly...Your letters are EXCELLENT!

Your arguing with some interesting people tonight wreck  ::MonkeyLaugh::

Yeap.  That Palus azz looks like a good target.  lol

Found a closup pic of the plane's cockpit   ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/CheneyFly.jpg)

The only thing I would like is for all of us to be a support system for the family. What has bothered me for a long time is the wild speculations that have made many people lose respect for a place that used to have that respect.  Klaas you know that I have been here a long time.  I introduced a certain member of Natalee's family to the board.  The alienation of old members and the embracing of new members with wild theories is what bothers me. yes, new people should be accepted but the old member should not be excluded because they do not agree with the new theories.  The nasty e mails to once faithful members who have lost faith in this place because of things that have happened bother me.  The nasty remarks to some who choose to gather other places bothers me.  This should not be a place where people are bashed for disagreeing.  It should be a place for supporting the family and a discussion of the facts of the case.  When we get into wild speculations and name calling we turn into another blog that we all know of.  It should not be a place where we are insulted because the crew of the Persistance didn't tell us something.  They have a job to do and we should let them do it.  The way people have reacted to the picture posted is a prime example of why the Persistance should not give out information.  People take it and run like crazy to all sorts of crazy conclusions.

Reckon they will sleep on the plane or go check into the Holiday Inn?

Come to think of it -- the picture of the plane that landed in Aruba tonight looks like the OLD 707 which USED to be "Air Force One". The Vice President now flies a 757 -- so it probaly is not Cheney ther but another high ranking U.S. official.

DA Plane Da Plane!  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Klaas you are amazing with your software..That settles it,Cheney is in Aruba!!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

 ::MonkeyLaugh::

JORAN IS BORROWING THE PLANE FOR THE WEEKEND. 

My information is from having been involved with 4 living presidents. Not trying to mislead or provide anything other then what I know on a personal level.

anidac,

I pray your daughter and all those involved in this horrible accident will be safe and that comfort will come quickly for you too.

::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyNoNo::

Wild theories? What exactly do you mean by a "wild theory" anyways? What do you want people to do just take what is presented as fact and not quesiton anything? I don't understand what the issue is with coming with alternative scenarios, whether it be looking at a photo, or, pieicing together circumstantial evidence.

I'm relatively new here but my general impression is that this place is specifically setup to facilitate "theorizing" about cases of all kinds. What am I missing?

TM you the ma...er..woman!
Just another example about what one person can do if they only forgo the thought....my opinion can't make a difference. It does! Like NIKE...just do it....I am proud of all monkeys!

Please believe me wreck I don't believe we have gotten any facts corectly from the ALE in Aruba. But to think that we as people who have no expertise in this area and no access to information can do better than the professionals is stupid. I truely believe that the FBI should have had the case from the start because I don't think the Aruban ALE knew what to do or there was too much of a connection to the van der sloots to do what they should.  If we think we are going to solve this by "analyzing and researching" on a blog then we are sadly mistaken.  Seeing shoes here and then shoes there and booking a trip to Aruba to scrape whatever off of rocks, etc is not going to solve this.  We only make ourselves look silly.  P.S. Bashing people on a boat who have given time and MUCH money to searching for Natalee does us no good either.

sorry Wreck, I messed up that last post quote stack and it looks like you said what I said....
 ::MonkeyConfused::

I have no idea what you are talking about.  Nobody has stopped anyone from disagreeing about anything here. If "old" members choose not to post because THEY don't agree that is their choice.  I don't know what you mean by nasty emails because I'm not getting them.

Actually, I'm at a loss for words.  Someone help me out here.

We would never bash the people on the boat.  We love Kyle.  He was here
with us all night and we loved having him.  We all know he won't tell us a
thing and I think we all respect him for that.

Not sure what you are missing. Not what this place was set up for initially I don't think.

Trust me, Robin knows what she is doint.    j/b

Klaasend...don't know if I can help you out...but...after all the reading on this thread...I'm starting to get the feel of a *caste* system here in the cage...and I know I'm not very far up the food chain.

What I do know is this....I have never been on a forum that has had so many supportive people...so much effort in working *together* by whatever means, to dig...root...scrounge for any iota of truth...in the muck that surrounds this case.

I think if the tide sends the cage in new directions...then we, the flotsem and jetsum swirling around in the cage...well...we just have to go with the flow.

No you are not the one GETTING them.

Casa - you are 100% wrong.  That's what all of these forums are set up for, to discuss, research and theorize.

Not only that, this site is about many other missing persons as well.  All discussion forums are set up for people to do just that, discuss the case and dig up information.

Casa - why is it our fault if you are getting nasty emails from people?  We didn't give out your email address. Because a small group of people are unhappy because someone "moved their cheese", we are supposed to change for them?  Not going to happen.

Actually I have not gotten any nasty emails from anyone.  I never said that or implied that.  There are people here that are sending emails to others. 

Hotping, dmprs, billb, Destiny, and *******,
Thanks monkey friends for all of the compliments about my emails to President Bush and Vice President Chaney.  I honestly don't know if they ever reached "the big guys" since I'm sure they have staff in charge of such things.  However, I can hope and pray that if this trip to Aruba was in the works that maybe by the hand of God my requests did get to someone that will help continue the search.  Believe me, emailing the Whitehouse is not something I've ever done before.  But while trying to find contact information for people wealthy enough to make a substantial donation, and being a TEXASmom with a Texan as President, I thought "it can't hurt to try!"  I did mention doing it on here but didn't say a lot about it because I figured most would think I was silly to do it.  But like I've said before, I'm here because I want to be a part of this and help in any way I can until the day we can all rest easy that there has been justice for Natalee.  If I'd have know the VP was planning a trip I would have mailed him an I'M STANDING WITH THE GIRL, tshirt or something to wear while he was there, lol ....just kidding.
 ::MonkeyWink::

Well there's nothing we can do about that is there?  Can't please everyone, it's just not possible.

  Actually I don't care if they peddle in on a tricycle-run pontoon as long as they are TCB.      jack blue

Yes actually there is something you can do about it.

They better sweep that whole place good if they stay at the HI.  I, personally would bunk down on the plane.         J/b

Theorize, speculate, discuss all you want but stop bashing the people who are actually doing something to find Natalee and bring her home.

Well...Ya done real good Girl!!!!

Are you a Lownski?  A Flowers?, er......just a wondering?

Exactly, come on Casa you have over 1000 posts here and you are telling us you don't understand the purpose of the Scared Monkeys forums. Again, I don't understand why you think theorizing about this case is an issue. By your logic, we should only discuss facts, yet, no investigator, whether it be a professional or an amateur would ever simply look at the given facts of a case to the exlcusion of alternative scenarios or circumstances. To do so would be completely illogical and likely yield inferior results.

Yes...She Did !!!  ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

Do you see any bashing here tonight? 

Here's a link to the new forum for Courttv, it's the CNN Crime Library forum now.  The Natalee Holloway thread.  This link will take you to some of the more current posts:

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?t=289120&page=51

Hello Casa,

I don't really know you, but may I say, and please don't take it as a *bash*, but it seems your attitude, as posted in this statement, is very demeaning to everyone who has spent precious personal time attempting to add light to this case.

Surely you don't feel that everything speculated on this forum has been a total waste?

  It is about time you are a loss for words, Casa.  Your divisionary tactics are not working.  OE and we are ONE.         j/b

I think Bladerunner maybe because I don't understand what the purpose of what SM has become is why I post rarely anymore.  Actually investigators do look at the facts of a case and they follow leads but they also discount crazy theories.  I don't have a problem with theories in general but I do have a problem with some things that go on here.

Don't mind us, we do that sometimes.

Casa - When i don't agree with what someone is posting I either offer an alternative theory or I simply scroll past the post.  It's really very simple to do.  I don't understand the problem.  We can't all be vanilla or chocolate some of us are neapolitan.

If your going to make a statement like that then why are you even on these boards? And that is not an attack but a sincere question. Your tone, at least to me, is one that implies that you believe that those that "thoerize, speculate, and discuss" the case are wasting their time since they are not on the island of Aruba, as you say, "actually doing something." 

Again, your tact here is off base.

Destiy, lets talk about my attitude. Where were you when Natalee went missing?  Where were you on May 31?  You know where I was?  I was at my house when I was called and told that a niece of a friend of mine was missing.  Where were you in the days that followed?  I was with my friend seeing her pain and anguish because Natlaee was missing.  I was with my daughter who was very close to this person and felt her pain.  Have you every cried with someone from Natalee's family?  Don't talk to me about precious personal time attempting to add light to this case.

Very well said Klaas!   ::MonkeyDance::

I might not add much, but I feel like by just being here and showing support is the best I can do.

Casa - maybe that's the problem, you are too close to the family? 

Maybe so but that should not be a problem.

Goodnight All! Casa I hope You feel better soon!  ::MonkeyConfused::

It's only a problem if reading speculaton, theories and discussion about what happened to Natalee in Aruba bothers you.

Glad to see you have reported back to the other forum though, I'm sure they will be very proud of you, I mean that sincerely.

Im sure you do. We are all concerned about what this has turned into.  A sad state of affairs!

I don't post often, but I read every day. I hit the refresh button so often that i have bleeding fingers (LOL). my opinion....What happened to Natalee has happened over and over on that island orchestrated and participated in by the highest members of government. Their society has no respect for woman in general, and an utter  disdain for American tourists! They prey on young American tourists especially the last night before leaving the island. They date rape their victims, and it is big  sport for all the pimps. I personally believe the pimps are substantially reimbursed to provide young tourists to the older men for play. If that ever got embraced and reported vby MSM, the tourism in Aruba would be finished. That is the sole reason for the massive cover up and disinformation campaign since day one. Paulus is your perp....and the judges that restricted the searches and let Joran/K2 walk are in it up to their eyeballs.....it would not surprise me at all that there was a planned party at VDS house with govt officials and judges participation. Kidnapping, date rape and murder, all premeditated, are warranted. KJ, JanVDS, DJ, Mos, RC, Obudar?, at a minimum, should be prosecuted. MEP need to be held accountable also....
I have gone through so many feelings throughout the ups and downs...but my heart goes out to Dave, Beth, Jug, family...Monkeys ...Persistence, Tim Miller...
I especially THANK RED for making the ability to follow this case a reality through the Scared Monkeys forum.....and Dana for his coverage....

Some of the most brilliant people in the world are not "professionals" because they will not adapt to the plastic worlds that many deemed professionals have to live in to be accepted as such.  Some people leave the professional world because they are smart and cannot be stiffled by the often phony world of academia.  Pieces of paper are sometimes just that.
Joran finished highschool and got a book promoted and what is he.  His daddy is a wanna-be-ganster/judge, and the rest of those evil beings are professionals per se.  Many of them are appointed into their positions without proper soul and/or experience.  Case and point.  Don't say someone else has to tell you WHO you are.  Know who you are and act accordingly.
          Jackson B Blue  (trying to put on airs)

Sad state of affairs?  I don't agree at all.  With that I'm calling it a night.


GOODNIGHT ALL!

Billb - excellent post.  Now I'm really gone..goodnight.

Can we touch you.  You are important 3 times removed.  Sorry about the mouth tonight, but that was the longest fuss I have had to endure on here.
        jack b

Good night Klaas, hugs

That's exactly what I would expect from you.

BillyB and JackieBlue I love you guys! And No Im not gay  ::MonkeyWink::

Yup, that pretty much sums it up!  Nice post billb.

So my being here, and prayers, and tears mean nothing? I am offended, but this is not about me.

No Casa...I have not cried with a member of Natalee's Family...but yes, I have cried many times for them...and my time is precious to me...the fact that I *choose* to spend a good portion of it here in the forum...supporting the Family...actively attempting to *dig* out any nuggets of truth for them in the only ways that I can...it means something to ME!

Still trying to figure out what your point is and how it relates to my post.

You are right, it is not about any of us except Natalee and her family.  Sadly, it is not always that way

Monkey hugs to shell, I feel the same way..but we do matter.  We support Natalee and her family, whether silently or openly. And I don't really think it matters how long we have been here......

I'm trying to see if there is a FULL MOON.  ::MonkeyWink::

d

Ok the quiet one must speak again.. this is making me sad
everyone here and I mean everyone works so hard to get answers
and everyone is frustrated, upset,angry and just plain tired..
please please dont let everyones frustrations get the best of everyone
We are all here for Natalee many much more then me. Im the prayers
not the speaker... please let everyone keep level head and remember
we are here for Natalee

I love you all and your determination that is why I am here

Destiny, I am waiting for a response.

I agree...I have cried and prayed for 2 years and 9 months.....

d

Casa...maybe you missed it...but here is the reply I posted....

Sue, I don't know but you sound like a really nice person.  Yes, we should all be here for Natalee. We should not be here for I know more than you, I see things that might not be there, I have a connection to the government, I can go to Aruba and get DNA, etc.  We should be here for NATALEE and her family.  Some people do not seem to understand that.

Shell, your being here matters...your the ma...woma....clam...that matters! LOL

Too be clear..that was said with sincerity.....when I reread my post, i may have sounded glib...

I feel you dear, really i do .heart not only goes out to the family but there is people here that lose sleep over this.. this case has taken on a life of it's own and taken over the life of many here.. Casa I just pray i feel that is all I can do just pray .. I have cried and begged god to give there baby back..

 ::MonkeyCool:: hugs dmprs and kippy

I replied with my response...you missed it when I originally posted it...it is reposted above this post...very close.

GREAT POST!   ::MonkeyDance::

I wasn't so sure exactly what you said. I am a bit naive sometimes. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

fro

This is not about me or what it means to me.  It is about Natalee and her family. You talked about precious personal time spent here.You criticized my attitude.  My atitude comes from people living this nightmare right in front of my eyes.

Casa, I am sure this is extremely difficult for you, seeing the pain on the families face, being so close. I will add you to my prayers too.

G night you all

Sue there are people like you who really care about Natalee. But, then there are others who I very much doubt their sincerity.  Thank you for caring!

Casa....I have *eyes* too...and a heart, soul, a mind to think with....I don't need you to tell me how I should *use* them...I find you very rude...this is MOO...and does not reflect/imply the feelings of any other people here on the forum. 

God Bless You...may you find some peace of mind.

Shell, I'm a long time US submarine sailor....I've been told many times my humor is dry...Bottom line, I appreciate your comments...
V/r.....

klaas

Sad state of affairs?  I don't agree at all.  With that I'm calling it a night.quote


GOODNIGHT ALL!
[/quote]

That's exactly what I would expect from you.
[/quote]

Why so rude to Klaas?
I'm not sure why you are here, Casa. You started out with an 'attitude', you've veered from just about calling sm posters wackos to complaining about nasty emails sent by sm members, only to find out you have never actually received any. Do you buddies a favor and tell them to block unwanted emails, that should settle that.
I, too, have been here with all of you from almost day one, sm has evolved...and it's a much nicer place to visit since the whiners left for their own 'whinery'.

Maybe not my place.....
be cool, we are all here for Natalee...

Im really not sure what your problem is.  You don't have to worry about my peace of mind as I have done what is necessary to support the family and it didn't include calling people in Aruba and causing problems.  I have been quietly supporting people I care very much about who just happen to be members of Natalee's family.  I've not  broadcasted it here because recognition was noT my goal.  My goal was to love and support. Im not telling you how to use anything.  Im telling you my "attitude" comes from love and support of them family and Natalee not from any need to make people think that I am solving the case. Don't question my attitude.  You have no clue what the family and friends in this case have gone through.

OK, I'm up late and have nothing too do but weigh in on the size of the crap cage.
My background in oceanography (dated back to late 1990s) as a submarine sailor with side scan sonar technology tells me that the cage pictured may very well fit dimensions of a cage possible stolen from the fisherman's  hut (4 ft X 5.5 ft X 17 in). Underwater pictures can distort the view....  So, my point is that the pictures of the crap cage posted may not be as big as they appear..they can definitely look larger depending on the distance/angle.

I think we should all wait to see if Beth thinks the same as you....or are you speaking for Beth?

 :smt091 :smt091 :smt091 :smt091 :smt091 :smt091 :smt091 :smt091 :smt091 :smt091 :smt091 :smt091 :smt091 :smt091 :smt091 :smt091 :smt091 :smt091