Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

I was catching up this morning and came across the above post and found it odd that it was asked the pics not leave BFN as IF  no one but BFN members are the only ones that care, have supported, donated, spent endless hours..etc ..on and on.

It's just odd to me that the pics of the Persistence photos leaving Aruba have been requested to stay on BFN.

"Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist on board the R/V Persistence. Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification and location. I will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target after I pick and analyse each sonar target."

http://geosolutions.blogspot.com/

Hardly a cabin boy.

Sounds like of like a deliberate snub, doesn't it?

Well, I'm just not going to be offended anyway.  Their frustration level had to be off the chart.  Maybe Kyle will give us some explanation when he gets home and rested up.  Will withhold judgment until then.

And even if he doesn't, we are all on the same team.  And Tim Miller was a part of that search and I know he would never want to do anything to snub the Monkeys.

They all still have my gratitude and prayers and wishes for a return to finish the search if it is deemed likely to find Natalee.

We have to be uniters and not dividers and all the supporters of Natalee's family must pull together even if we don't always agree on things and I mean the search crew and BFN as well as any supporters anywhere.

It's still about Natalee for me, egos be damned no matter whose they are.  I'm here now basically for Beth, to be perfectly candid.  I don't really care what games they play with pictures anyway.  They gave months of their lives and I love them for that no matter what else they may do.


jmoo

O/T BREAKING NEWS

REPORT: SEVEN SHOT AT WENDY'S NEAR WEST PALM BEACH, FLA.

Dear Lord, is there no end to the madness?

Hey Sunny!

Tamikosmom, I agree.  Kyle was shocked at the information in the TNI report that we all digested 3 years ago.  He is a scientist and takes things at face value. The Arubans are quite good at presenting one attitude to your face and another behind your back.  We have also learned that over the past 3 years.  I think his youth and lack of experience with people like the ALE and the internet bloggers caused him to misinterpret motivations and actions.  Youth and inexperience are easily cured with time.  He was a valuable member of the search team, and I forgive him his assumptions.

Bless his heart.  He can't help it he hasn't been on this earth as long as some of the rest of us.  I'd like to read some of his other blogs in my spare time.  I found Kyle to be very interesting.  I believe he will do well in his chosen field. 

HEy Peaches! I agree!!!!

I speculate that furor over the internet images taken by the crew of the  Persistance of the contents of that enormous cage/trap has everything to do with those images NOT having anything to do with the Natalee Holloway case.

Maybe ... just maybe ... those images should never have been released by the Persistance ... as they would become part of a new Aruban investigation.

I suspect that these images were shared with Robin H. but ... were never expected to surface on the internet.

IMO

Janet

++++++++++++

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2654.msg357200#msg357200

Oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 -
« Reply #525 on: February 29, 2008, 02:58:40 AM »

I really didn't want to respond to all this but I feel I must. 

Please stop...and carefully think things through here.  You know who I mean.

WHAT do you think you are doing?  What do you seriously think you are going to accomplish with the pics?  Don't you even think to consider for a second that we the search team, who found the trap, supervised it's sampling, recorded that video and others... are ensuring the situation is in proper hands and being taken care of appropriately and completely?   

You are not helping anything by interfering with what you do not fully understand.  Please let the authorities do their jobs without interference.   

Robin should never have posted those pics because of the stir they would cause.  She trusted (mistakenly) people's ethics on a private forum.  One of the reasons (among many) that this case has taken so long to solve is because of the Internet, media, and well intended partially-informed people's ambitions and agendas.  Stay out of business you don't belong in.  You all know I am an ally both in the field and on the net.  I have done my best to both bring success to this case and to keep people informed and updated with what information should be provided.  We the search team have worked extremely hard over a long time.  Many of you have as well.  Let's not let our frustrations get the best of us.  Let us not let our emotions interfere with what we know to be true, and let us not forget who we are and what jobs we have to do.  Let those who are responsible do their jobs.

Posted by HannieC at RU:

BTW, just read in the paper that Beth is on the Jensen show tomorrow again, pffff........   

She is going to tell Jensen how she is going to sue Joran for emotional suffering..............

I thought that wasn't true??? 

Posted by HannieC at RU:

BTW, just read in the paper that Beth is on the Jensen show tomorrow again, pffff........   

She is going to tell Jensen how she is going to sue Joran for emotional suffering..............

I thought that wasn't true??? 

Jo-ann I think you posted about friends of jurin's currently posting that his 2 younger brothers where in Netherlands with avds.  THANK YOU FOR THAT INFO!!!!!!  Many of us here were given that same info in June 2005 by people in aruba and not friends of the people of the ditch (love that name!).  Also a Monkey found out that 3 people of the ditch (3 van der sloots) flew from nl to aruba the day avds said she came home around June 1.  IMO, pvds needed his younger sons home for an alibi and that is when that story change.  Thanks again for posting that info.

ok I may be tarred and feathered for this. The USA spends billions on a fight against drugs that can not be won. We have overflowing prisons, mass murders and a missing Natalie which is in some way related to Illegal narcotics. The simple and easiest way to control these substances are to legalize them and tax the crap out of it. Spend the tax dollars on rehabilitaion. Take the glamour away from using illegal narcotics. This would clean this country and all of the corrupt governments up. Just my opinion. I am sorry that I posted this here. Ok heat up the tar and I have the feathers

PI, I do think knowing some background helps to understand the posts Kyle made.  As you said before, you had assumed he was the owner of the boat.  Knowing who made the posts helps us to better interpret his meaning and intentions.  I usually always ascribe good intentions unless I'm shown otherwise.  I'll miss the regular updates.

Well, here's certainly some wonderful news.  Bet Carpe can capture it for us, too!



http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3456742/_Moeder_Natalee__te_gast_bij_Jensen__.html?p=1,2
 
Moeder Natalee Holloway te gast bij Jensen

HILVERSUM - Beth Twitty, de moeder van op de Aruba verdwenen tiener Natalee Holloway, is dinsdagavond te gast in het televisieprogramma Jensen!. Voor het eerst na de spraakmakende uitzending van Peter R. de Vries geeft ze op de Nederlandse televisie haar reactie op de bekentenissen van Joran van der Sloot, aldus RTL maandag.

Beth Twitty the mother of missing teenager Natalee Holloway. will be Tuesday as guest in TV show Jensen. For the first time after the show from Peter R. de Vries she gives to  Dutch TV a reaction to the confession from Joran van der Sloot, said RTL monday.


Tegen presentator Robert Jensen vertelt ze over de schadeclaim die ze gaat indien bij Joran van der Sloot wegens de emotionele schade die ze heeft geleden. Ook gaat ze in op de gebeurtenissen nadat de mediagekte losbarstte en de zoektocht naar haar dochter, die op 30 mei 2005 verdween.

She wukk talk to announcer Robert Jensen about the civil lawsuit against Joran van der Sloot, what he has done emotionally to her. Also she will be talking about the media that is following the case and about the search to her daughter, that was missing on May 30, 2005.


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Well!!!  Didn't any of you read my post???  I was very proud of my little find.

 ::MonkeyShocked:: ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyShocked::

Tamikosmom, I agree.  Kyle was shocked at the information in the TNI report that we all digested 3 years ago.  He is a scientist and takes things at face value. The Arubans are quite good at presenting one attitude to your face and another behind your back.  We have also learned that over the past 3 years.  I think his youth and lack of experience with people like the ALE and the internet bloggers caused him to misinterpret motivations and actions.  Youth and inexperience are easily cured with time.  He was a valuable member of the search team, and I forgive him his assumptions.

Well, here's certainly some wonderful news.  Bet Carpe can capture it for us, too!



http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3456742/_Moeder_Natalee__te_gast_bij_Jensen__.html?p=1,2
 
Moeder Natalee Holloway te gast bij Jensen

HILVERSUM - Beth Twitty, de moeder van op de Aruba verdwenen tiener Natalee Holloway, is dinsdagavond te gast in het televisieprogramma Jensen!. Voor het eerst na de spraakmakende uitzending van Peter R. de Vries geeft ze op de Nederlandse televisie haar reactie op de bekentenissen van Joran van der Sloot, aldus RTL maandag.

Beth Twitty the mother of missing teenager Natalee Holloway. will be Tuesday as guest in TV show Jensen. For the first time after the show from Peter R. de Vries she gives to  Dutch TV a reaction to the confession from Joran van der Sloot, said RTL monday.


Tegen presentator Robert Jensen vertelt ze over de schadeclaim die ze gaat indien bij Joran van der Sloot wegens de emotionele schade die ze heeft geleden. Ook gaat ze in op de gebeurtenissen nadat de mediagekte losbarstte en de zoektocht naar haar dochter, die op 30 mei 2005 verdween.

She wukk talk to announcer Robert Jensen about the civil lawsuit against Joran van der Sloot, what he has done emotionally to her. Also she will be talking about the media that is following the case and about the search to her daughter, that was missing on May 30, 2005.


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Destiny, I hope I was not the Monkey who offended you during the photo talks.  If I did, I sincerely apologize.  I did not mean to offend but only meant to explain what I thought was an angle that may not have been realized.  I know I sometimes write rather abrupt posts that could be misconstrued.  I need to learn to explain myself better.  If I offended, I apologize. 

No Sweet Pea...wasn't you...it was someone that ******* finally had enough of...come to the cage and rushed her off to bed...and tucked her in niceley...she *needed* her rest... ::MonkeyConfused::

Nope, that wasn't me!  ::MonkeyNoNo::
Don't know who it was though...

I do not doubt for one minute that Kyle is very qualified in his profession ... I do not doubt for one minute that Kyle motives in locating the remains of Natalee Hollway were very sincere.

However ... somewhere along the way Kyle was influenced to believe that those within the Aruban investigation were the "good guys" and ... the media which was the sole reason that the Natalee Holloway case did not become a faded memory was the "bad guy".

The following post spoke volumes to me in regards to Kyle naïveté in regards to the dynamics encompassing the "powers that be" in the Aruban investigation who have been behind the coverup which has been denying Natalee Holloway justice.

I cannot comprehend that Kyle would have posted the following words if he had done his homework.  If only he had read Dave Holloway's ... Corruption in Paradise or ... Beth Holloway's ... Loving Natalee.

In November, 2005 ... Dave Holloway conceded that his cooperation with the enemy had not worked.  Dave learned that his goal for justice to prevail for his precious daughter did not reflect ... the Aruban goal to distance Joran and Paulus from implication.

Janet

++++++++

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »

Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal.


Dave Holloway
On the Record w/ Greta
November 17, 2005

HOLLOWAY: ... I made sure that the prime minister understood our position. You know, I had been holding off on this boycott as long as I could, and I told him, I said, you know, The big wave is coming, and if you guys are not going to listen, I can't help you anymore.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175925,00.html


Dave Holloway
On the Record w/ Greta
April 11, 2006

HOLLOWAY: Oh, the media was our best friend. If it hadn't been for the media this thing would have been swept under the table the very first day and we'd have been calling back to Aruba "Have you heard anything? Have you heard anything?" I truly believe that.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,191377,00.html

I have done my homework. Not all that I posted is geared journalistically.  Some things I had written were specifically geared to send a message.  At times, this message was for only a few people.  This post at SM "praising Aruban authorities" was done with contextual purpose. Eveything I write ends up being read by people who are extremely interested and close to the case.  In context, we (the search team) needed to rapidly gain the trust and cooperation of the Aruban authorities.  Before we arrived, here was no trust, little cooperation, and no sharing of information. Take this for what it's worth:  Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.  Also, don't make assumptions about what I have or have not read.

Not all that I write is my true feelings but is aimed at true purpose. Not everything is clear or should be taken just at face value.

I like to *think* I pick up stuff pretty quickly. But for the life of me, I still don't understand the problems with posting those pictures. Will someone please inform me?

And since no one knows for sure, I'll accept all the conjecture in the world. TIA

I'm not sure what is in that trap. I do not see anything that rules
Natalee in or out of that trap. What am I missing here?

Hello oceanexploration.  Did you have a good flight home?  Any news for us?

I like to *think* I pick up stuff pretty quickly. But for the life of me, I still don't understand the problems with posting those pictures. Will someone please inform me?

And since no one knows for sure, I'll accept all the conjecture in the world. TIA

I'm not sure what is in that trap. I do not see anything that rules
Natalee in or out of that trap. What am I missing here?

I have done my homework. Not all that I posted is geared journalistically.  Some things I had written were specifically geared to send a message.  At times, this message was for only a few people.  This post at SM "praising Aruban authorities" was done with contextual purpose. Eveything I write ends up being read by people who are extremely interested and close to the case.  In context, we (the search team) needed to rapidly gain the trust and cooperation of the Aruban authorities.  Before we arrived, here was no trust, little cooperation, and no sharing of information. Take this for what it's worth:  Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.  Also, don't make assumptions about what I have or have not read.

Not all that I write is my true feelings but is aimed at true purpose. Not everything is clear or should be taken just at face value.

I have done my homework. Not all that I posted is geared journalistically.  Some things I had written were specifically geared to send a message.  At times, this message was for only a few people.  This post at SM "praising Aruban authorities" was done with contextual purpose. Eveything I write ends up being read by people who are extremely interested and close to the case.  In context, we (the search team) needed to rapidly gain the trust and cooperation of the Aruban authorities.  Before we arrived, here was no trust, little cooperation, and no sharing of information. Take this for what it's worth:  Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.  Also, don't make assumptions about what I have or have not read.

Not all that I write is my true feelings but is aimed at true purpose. Not everything is clear or should be taken just at face value.

I like to *think* I pick up stuff pretty quickly. But for the life of me, I still don't understand the problems with posting those pictures. Will someone please inform me?

And since no one knows for sure, I'll accept all the conjecture in the world. TIA

I'm not sure what is in that trap. I do not see anything that rules
Natalee in or out of that trap. What am I missing here?

Rob, I can give you a few guesses off the top of my head, but I don't know for sure.  In academia, of which the scientific community is included, there is a strong belief in integrity of work.  This includes support for the ownership of materials, copyright and other such laws.  Academics carefully and minutely credit the source of their work and related work, ad infinitum.  So, that's the prevailing attitude amongst these folks.  The type of sharing and copying we do on the internet is so foreign to them that I know some who find it shocking.  I think they would have found it shocking that someone took the pictures from a private site and put them in the public domain anonymously.  Especially if the pictures portrayed the remains of a dead person--not Natalee, but any dead person.  I think the request not to repost the pics of Persistence leaving Aruba was a knee jerk reaction to the previous copying of pics. 

I like to *think* I pick up stuff pretty quickly. But for the life of me, I still don't understand the problems with posting those pictures. Will someone please inform me?

And since no one knows for sure, I'll accept all the conjecture in the world. TIA

I'm not sure what is in that trap. I do not see anything that rules
Natalee in or out of that trap. What am I missing here?

btw, I ran into Deepak and Satish outside of Mambo Jambo on Saturday night.  It looked like the bouncers didn't let them in the club. I would have loved to have bought them both a Balashi and had a chat.  No dice.

NM…I believe it may have been one of our new Dutch Monkeys…Flipper or Katrian(sp) and by the way Welcome!…and sorry if it was not!

 I too would like some further clarification on this…

This is Paulus’ alibi for that evening…he had to pick up Sebastian from I believe the Ziola’s house.(Not sure on the spelling on that either, but it is the only name I can recall Paulus mentioning picking him up from)

If they were in the Netherlands, Paulus has no alibi for the time he was ‘not’ in the casino sitting right next to Natalee or for the rest of the night.

I was reading back then and do remember it being confirmed that there was indeed three ditches on the flight to Aruba.

Anna…I saw it, but am supposed to be busy…maybe I should just logout and I’ll get more done…LOL

Those two...out on Saturday night.  Without Joran, they don't get VIP passes to get into clubs.  That's how it works on Aruba.  Yes, I would have liked to have chatted with them, too.  But, I think they are streetwise and would not have talked to the likes of you or me, unless we were handing them cash, of course.  And then we should not believe a word they say.

Rob..I think what we are all missing here...is someone...*anyone*...telling us the truth.

For whatever reason(s)...they feel they can't...or wont...I'm just as stymied as you..

btw, I ran into Deepak and Satish outside of Mambo Jambo on Saturday night.  It looked like the bouncers didn't let them in the club. I would have loved to have bought them both a Balashi and had a chat.  No dice.

Well!!!  Didn't any of you read my post???  I was very proud of my little find.

 ::MonkeyShocked:: ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyShocked::

Rob, someone with authority (?) needs to focus on Paulus.  That's the key.  He holds the truth.

btw, I ran into Deepak and Satish outside of Mambo Jambo on Saturday night.  It looked like the bouncers didn't let them in the club. I would have loved to have bought them both a Balashi and had a chat.  No dice.

Thanks OE!...sounds like those 2 Bros really are joined at the hip...to insure tight lips?

OE post excerpt:

"WHAT do you think you are doing?  What do you seriously think you are going to accomplish with the pics?  Don't you even think to consider for a second that we the search team, who found the trap, supervised it's sampling, recorded that video and others... are ensuring the situation is in proper hands and being taken care of appropriately and completely?  "


I think I missed this the first time, I wonder how many other videos they shot that they have "ensured are in proper hands?" 

Also, what else did they find and film?   


[/quote

There were three ROV dive videos of the trap.  Video 1 : 29th Dec - ROV visual inspection of the trap.  (very small clip of this video on Dateline).  Remember, the Dateline footage was taken over our shoulders by filming the ROV monitor.  The footage is not the recorded ROV footage.
Video 2: Dec 30th - ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap.  This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted.  I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI.  Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me.  After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me.  I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't.  Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them. 

What you all really didn't know (nor Tim Miller when he said his statements to the press, neither Dateline NBC when they broadcasted their lovely special):

Video 3:  Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap.  The trap was not recovered.  Recovered samples sent for forensic analysis.  Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board.

The trap in Video 1-3 was found from the first conducted ROV dive.  I found the target at 1:46 am on Christmas morning.  It was my #1 ranked priority target and therefore the first of the ROV dive series. 

Several hours of footage were of other dives on other targets.  None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks.

There were three ROV dive videos of the trap.  Video 1 : 29th Dec - ROV visual inspection of the trap.  (very small clip of this video on Dateline).  Remember, the Dateline footage was taken over our shoulders by filming the ROV monitor.  The footage is not the recorded ROV footage.

Video 2: Dec 30th - ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap.  This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted.  I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI.  Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me.  After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me.  I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't.  Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them.  

What you all really didn't know (nor Tim Miller when he said his statements to the press, neither Dateline NBC when they broadcasted their lovely special):

Video 3:  Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap.  The trap was not recovered.  Recovered samples sent for forensic analysis.  Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board.

The trap in Video 1-3 was found from the first conducted ROV dive.  I found the target at 1:46 am on Christmas morning.  It was my #1 ranked priority target and therefore the first of the ROV dive series. 

Several hours of footage were of other dives on other targets.  None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks.

There were three ROV dive videos of the trap.  Video 1 : 29th Dec - ROV visual inspection of the trap.  (very small clip of this video on Dateline).  Remember, the Dateline footage was taken over our shoulders by filming the ROV monitor.  The footage is not the recorded ROV footage.
Video 2: Dec 30th - ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap.  This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted.  I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI.  Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me.  After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me.  I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't.  Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them. 

What you all really didn't know (nor Tim Miller when he said his statements to the press, neither Dateline NBC when they broadcasted their lovely special):

Video 3:  Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap.  The trap was not recovered.  Recovered samples sent for forensic analysis.  Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board.

The trap in Video 1-3 was found from the first conducted ROV dive.  I found the target at 1:46 am on Christmas morning.  It was my #1 ranked priority target and therefore the first of the ROV dive series. 

Several hours of footage were of other dives on other targets.  None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks.

Wow, that was one hell of a first target! Reaffirms the methodical process you and others implemented.

CAPS  Thank you for the info and summary of the telearuba program last night.  thank you also for all info, translations, etc.  I am really glad you are here and a Monkey. Thank you!!!!

JackB I think you ask what is "bogart a spliff"  bogart is when you either take a really long, hard drag of a tobacco like product and/or you hang onto the tobaaco like product for a long time, not allowing others to share.  Spliff or blunt is a part tobacco, part weed cigarrette.

Jo-ann I think you posted about friends of jurin's currently posting that his 2 younger brothers where in Netherlands with avds.  THANK YOU FOR THAT INFO!!!!!!  Many of us here were given that same info in June 2005 by people in aruba and not friends of the people of the ditch (love that name!).  Also a Monkey found out that 3 people of the ditch (3 van der sloots) flew from nl to aruba the day avds said she came home around June 1.  IMO, pvds needed his younger sons home for an alibi and that is when that story change.  Thanks again for posting that info.


Welcome all new and newish Monkeys.  It is so great to have you all here.


******* sorry for the loss of you 2 beloved pets.  PS I don't have the ability to differentiate between animal types. So the loss of a dog, cat is a much as a human to me.

Thanks (you sound like a dh to me) old friend of the family.  Anyway that, I thought was part of the female anatomy from the way he was talking.  Trying to keep up with the old and new sayings.  Not too good at either.   Thanks, Jack

Kyle thanks for the explanation. Can you tell us who was in the trap? or is it an unknown?

Apparently there is DNA, so that indicates a body.

Thank you.

But......your dive pics were different is what you are saying?  I agree.  jack blue.  They were.     

Janet

Sounds like of like a deliberate snub, doesn't it?

Well, I'm just not going to be offended anyway.  Their frustration level had to be off the chart.  Maybe Kyle will give us some explanation when he gets home and rested up.  Will withhold judgment until then.

And even if he doesn't, we are all on the same team.  And Tim Miller was a part of that search and I know he would never want to do anything to snub the Monkeys.

They all still have my gratitude and prayers and wishes for a return to finish the search if it is deemed likely to find Natalee.

We have to be uniters and not dividers and all the supporters of Natalee's family must pull together even if we don't always agree on things and I mean the search crew and BFN as well as any supporters anywhere.

It's still about Natalee for me, egos be damned no matter whose they are.  I'm here now basically for Beth, to be perfectly candid.  I don't really care what games they play with pictures anyway.  They gave months of their lives and I love them for that no matter what else they may do.


jmoo

Any estimations as to the dimensions and weight of the cage, or based upon the general conditions of the cage, coral build up, rust, etc. how long the cage had been submersed? It looked awfully large, but water can distort sizes to a certain extent. It looked a lot larger than the cages that would have been at the fishermans hut.

One more time. You cannot call an airline and ask who WAS on a plane.  They will not tell you because 1) they aren't allowed to 2) it's none of your business 3) the person you talk to does not have that information anyway.  If you fly on Monday, 24 hours later, flight information is now past date....all of it.  You can't even tell if it was on time or not once 24hours passes. 

If you call the airline, they don't know you from Adam's housecat.  They are not and cannot say with 100% certainty that someone is on an airplane.  They can tell you whether or not someone is "checked in" which is not the same as whose butt in the seat, assuming there is a butt in the seat.  They can tell you who has a reservation (but they're not really supposed to and you best have a good story if you think you're going to get that information.) 

Since 9/11, I would imagine things have changed somewhat.   Rules about passenger information and privacy are probably tighter than they used to be. 

My point is we really don't know if the two younger Sloots were with Anita in Holland or not.  Calling KLM a couple weeks later is not going to net you that information because the records are long gone by then.  I'm sure a subpoena would be necessary to obtain the information from microfiche (this is where the info used to go).   

The trap was symmetrical in width and length at approximately 7.5 ft. It was approximately 2.25-2.5 ft high.  You're correct about the ROV video lens distorting perspective due to the paralax view lens. 

The trap was symmetrical in width and length at approximately 7.5 ft. It was approximately 2.25-2.5 ft high.  You're correct about the ROV video lens distorting perspective due to the paralax view lens. 

The trap was symmetrical in width and length at approximately 7.5 ft. It was approximately 2.25-2.5 ft high.  You're correct about the ROV video lens distorting perspective due to the paralax view lens. 

I am happy with the explanation from OE. I did read Kyle's CV when I first learned his name. This was not a haphazard search by amateurs. Certainly is alot of mis communication on these blogs.

Didn't Paulus give a sworn statement that he watched at least one of the smaller boys get on the bus the next day?

I have to run out for the evening.  I'm not commenting more at this time about the trap or it's contents. 

(http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7236/image449bt0.jpg)

Why did the Persistence not get more TV time on the Dateline. I was expecting an hour long special on the workings of the boat, and I assume there were literally hundreds of hours of film footage that would have made fascinating television viewing?

I have to run out for the evening.  I'm not commenting more at this time about the trap or it's contents. 

Guess I'll need Anna to show me how to properly bring a post forward from the last thread...I always screw it up  ::MonkeyWaa::

Were it not for Ocean we would have not known a thing going on in the waters
of Aruba, except what Legally Lex chose to post at BFN.
He did his best to give us some insight.  I am grateful.
 

1. Why not? You must be aware there is more speculation than facts in these forums.

2. If you refuse to comment on the contents we will have to assume, remains were found and your response is a legalistic "no comment"

1. Why not? You must be aware there is more speculation than facts in these forums.

2. If you refuse to comment on the contents we will have to assume, remains were found and your response is a legalistic "no comment"

He has told us what he could, and we really shouldn't pressure him to disclose more. He wants to be friendly and helpful, but he has boundaries imposed on him. I say we just enjoy his conversation when he feels free to talk to us.

I have done my homework. Not all that I posted is geared journalistically.  Some things I had written were specifically geared to send a message.  At times, this message was for only a few people.  This post at SM "praising Aruban authorities" was done with contextual purpose. Eveything I write ends up being read by people who are extremely interested and close to the case.  In context, we (the search team) needed to rapidly gain the trust and cooperation of the Aruban authorities.  Before we arrived, here was no trust, little cooperation, and no sharing of information. Take this for what it's worth:  Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.  Also, don't make assumptions about what I have or have not read.

Not all that I write is my true feelings but is aimed at true purpose. Not everything is clear or should be taken just at face value.

(http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/9199/skullxf5.jpg)

looks like a skull to moi

(http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/9199/skullxf5.jpg)

looks like a skull to moi

Thank you.

Don't make me drag out the dead horse.

Thank you.

Don't make me drag out the dead horse.

Thanks (you sound like a dh  to me) old friend of the family.  Anyway that, I thought was part of the female anatomy from the way he was talking.  Trying to keep up with the old and new sayings.  Not too good at either.   Thanks, Jack

Wow...Mr. Frog!

Sure looks like a skull.
Is that from one of the fab 6 pictures?

OE, the question everyone wants answered is:

Were there human remains and clothing remnants in the trap?

(http://bestsmileys.com/oneofakind/1.gif)

Yes.

And Miss Magnolia, my condolences on the loss of your beloved Henry, but being able to have resolution is good.  I had a special cocker spaniel that looked exactly like the lady in the film 'Lady and the Tramp' once. One day, I'll get another one.

(http://bestsmileys.com/oneofakind/1.gif)

Destiny
If it is near page 50, before you click 'post,' copy the whole thing. 
If we have moved on to the new thread, simply click reply, then "paste' it into the box and hit post.

That is how my boy looked too.  He was so smart and very refined.
One of the best people I have had in my life.

The horse isnt dead until we get some answers.

(http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/70/image451zs5.jpg)

Original - I just cropped out the skull looking area and blew it up

If no remains were found, why doesnt he just say that?

The "thumbs down" signal did come very fast.

Allow me to reiterate in case you missed my previous posting about our leaving and the pics at BFN:

John sent the pics to his sister who is an active poster at BFN.  I had nothing to due with it, I was traveling.  It wasn't intended to snub anyone, nor was there any harm intended by anyone.  I am not involved in the fund raising, nor do I wish to be. 
The views posted by anyone other than the search team does not reflect the views or opinions of the search team.  I've done my best to keep the blog updated and reflective of our views.  Recently, (past several weeks) my plate was overflowing and the blog suffered as a result in terms of content.  However, it is still carefully constructed and every word is in it's proper purposeful context. 
I will continue to keep it updated with news and updates as they unfold and as things develop. 

ROFLMAO! ::MonkeyLaugh::

Speaking of youtube here.I found a couple of disturbing videos of a man and woman claiming to have all this information that Beth isn't telling the truth concerning her flight time into Aruba,Natalee being pregnant with Jugs baby,just bunches of balony.I wonder why Beth or Jug can't sue the pants off of them for malicious slander and the like.Seems pretty much like it would be in the bag as far as winning.Why let someone like that get away with this? It made me so mad I had to shut the thing off... :evil:

Beth will be on Jensen show tomorrow but..... tonite Peter R de Vries will be on!!!
Starts in 10 mins!!!!!!  ::MonkeyDance::
Will keep you updated.

Spock,  this is not within his authority.  He was upset the pictures were sent to the internet. I am sure he signed an agreement.  He is not the 'official spokesman' for the FBI or for the ALE or MOS!

These few words speak * volumes * to me...OE is one crafty Monkey...I respect that...

I think you are right, nothing found. All photos and info the property of the exploration team. Enough said. No skull, no body, no remnants. He signed a privacy agrrement with intellectual property rights.

well I had a really nice talk with my brother  I have mentioned before that he is a commerical fisherman from way up the northeast coast  He knows alot about crab pots as they are called  I hope no one minds that I sent them to him and waiting to see what he thinks of it  But so far what he has told me is this:   

crab pots are made of cold rolled steel, mesh, framed door and funnels for what ever you are wanting to catch can get in.  They put zinc on them to keep them from rusting.  They have different sizes;  7ft x 8ft weighs about 1000lbs,  7ft x 7ft weighs about 800lbs, the old timers had ones that were 4ft x 5ft about 300lbs and did push them off the boat by hand.  If you wanted to take one and put it on the ocean bottom you would need a commerical fishing boat at least 25ft with a wench so you can pick it up.   He also said that if you wanted young strong guys to do it, it would take about 5 or 6 and you would have to bait them with something to get them to do it. LOL  They are very hard to move from say a beach or boat with out the right equipment.  If you wanted to put something say in a pot on the bottom and did not have a big boat or the right equipment you could just get a diver with scuba dive gear to go say 90ft

He has told us what he could, and we really shouldn't pressure him to disclose more. He wants to be friendly and helpful, but he has boundaries imposed on him. I say we just enjoy his conversation when he feels free to talk to us.

Perhaps there is a reason the answers are not yet forthcoming eh?

ribbit

Yes we are well aware of those two and the video.  All total fabrications.  FYI, Beth and Jug are well aware of it too  ::MonkeyWink:: ::MonkeyWink::

If no remains were found, why doesnt he just say that?

The "thumbs down" signal did come very fast.

Jo-An  - Thanks!  I heard Beth will also be on Paul & Wittman (sp) tomorrow.

well I had a really nice talk with my brother  I have mentioned before that he is a commerical fisherman from way up the northeast coast  He knows alot about crab pots as they are called  I hope no one minds that I sent them to him and waiting to see what he thinks of it  But so far what he has told me is this:   

crab pots are made of cold rolled steel, mesh, framed door and funnels for what ever you are wanting to catch can get in.  They put zinc on them to keep them from rusting.  They have different sizes;  7ft x 8ft weighs about 1000lbs,  7ft x 7ft weighs about 800lbs, the old timers had ones that were 4ft x 5ft about 300lbs and did push them off the boat by hand.  If you wanted to take one and put it on the ocean bottom you would need a commerical fishing boat at least 25ft with a wench so you can pick it up.   He also said that if you wanted young strong guys to do it, it would take about 5 or 6 and you would have to bait them with something to get them to do it. LOL  They are very hard to move from say a beach or boat with out the right equipment.  If you wanted to put something say in a pot on the bottom and did not have a big boat or the right equipment you could just get a diver with scuba dive gear to go say 90ft

Beth will be on Jensen show tomorrow but..... tonite Peter R de Vries will be on!!!
Starts in 10 mins!!!!!!  ::MonkeyDance::
Will keep you updated.

These few words speak * volumes * to me...OE is one crafty Monkey...I respect that...

What I do know is that I am 100% confident there is a conch shell in that cage (pic #2 to the right)    ::MonkeyWink::

(http://i27.tinypic.com/anyfco.jpg)

(http://i29.tinypic.com/35ksmdc.jpg)

(http://i31.tinypic.com/ngolxy.jpg)

Beth will be on Jensen show tomorrow but..... tonite Peter R de Vries will be on!!!
Starts in 10 mins!!!!!!  ::MonkeyDance::
Will keep you updated.

 ::MonkeyDance:: thank you Jo-An.....love Peter!!! 

We need a little patience... first up is winner of Idols (Dutch version of American Idol)...

 ::MonkeyDance:: thank you Jo-An.....love Peter!!! 

Why i think it s not a skull

Kyle said that the cage was about 2,25-2,5 ft high assuming its 2.5 ft that would make the skull 3.5 inches

(http://i26.tinypic.com/9huu8p.jpg)

There would be DNA in it regardless of whether it is a creature of the sea or a human

ROFLMAO! ::MonkeyLaugh::

Why i think it s not a skull

Kyle said that the cage was about 2,25-2,5 ft high assuming its 2.5 ft that would make the skull 3.5 inches

(http://i26.tinypic.com/9huu8p.jpg)

If its not a rock

Nato fears over Dutch Islam film

The film has been condemned by several Muslim countries
Nato's secretary general says he fears the airing of a Dutch film criticising Islam will have repercussions for troops in Afghanistan.

Jaap de Hoop Scheffer's comments came after Afghans protested on Sunday against the film being made by far-right Dutch MP Geert Wilders.

The Dutch government has warned Mr Wilders that the film will damage Dutch political and economic interests.

Mr Wilders says the film is about the Koran but has given few details.

In the past, he has called for the Koran to be banned and likened it to Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf.

The project has already been condemned by several Muslim countries, including Iran and Pakistan.

Nato's secretary general said he was concerned about his troops after the protests against the film in Afghanistan.

"If the [troops] find themselves in the line of fire because of the film, then I am worried about it and I am expressing that concern," he said in a television interview.

'Kick out forces'

On Sunday, hundreds of Afghans took to the streets in the northern city of Mazar-i-Sharif to protest against the film.

Demonstrators burned Dutch flags, and called for the withdrawal of Dutch troops from the Nato force.

The demonstrators say they will step up their protests unless the Afghan government expels the troops.

The protesters also criticised the recent republication of caricatures of the Prophet Mohammad in several Danish newspapers, and called for the withdrawal of Danish troops.

"We don't want our government to have any diplomatic relations with these two countries," Maulawi Abdul Hadi, one of the protesters, told the Associated Press news agency.

"We don't want Danish and Dutch troops in Afghanistan. They should be kicked out of the Nato forces here."

Mr Wilders has said he expects his 15-minute work will be shown in the Netherlands in March and released on the internet.

Dutch authorities have told him he may have to leave the country for his own safety amid reports of death threats.

Submission

Mr Wilders' film is called Fitna, an Arabic word used to describe strife or discord.

He has said his film will show how the Koran is "an inspiration for intolerance, murder and terror".

Mr Wilders leads the Freedom Party, which has nine seats in the Dutch parliament.

He has had police protection since Dutch director Theo Van Gogh was killed by a radical Islamist in 2004.

Van Gogh's film Submission included verses from the Koran shown against a naked female body.

Can you just imagine the shock?....you send pictures
to the FBI and the next thing you know the pictures
are on the internet.

Hero Brinkman is such a great name for a politician.

Peaches, it has been awhile..I kind of missed that horse!  LOL

Not sure if you saw this Caesu? It makes me wonder if that had anything to do with them not extending Van Der Stratens contract in Bonaire?

www.amigoe.com/english/ on February 24


Bonaire still without corps leader

KRALENDIJK – Since Jan van Straten left late January, Bonaire is still without a chief of police.  His contract ran out per February 1.  Justice-minister David Dick (PAR) regrets the fact that the Netherlands didn’t cooperate and let Van der Straten stay a little longer until a new chief of police was appointed.

Van der Straten works for the Dutch police and they decided that he had to go back. The council of ministers would decide on a new chief of police this month in anticipation of the application committee.  The corps of police is currently led by chief inspector Oscar Obispo.  Minister Dick confirmed this morning that no decision was made yet on the chief of police.  He said two weeks ago:  “We will make sure that Bonaire gets a good chief of police.”

well I had a really nice talk with my brother  I have mentioned before that he is a commerical fisherman from way up the northeast coast  He knows alot about crab pots as they are called  I hope no one minds that I sent them to him and waiting to see what he thinks of it  But so far what he has told me is this:   

crab pots are made of cold rolled steel, mesh, framed door and funnels for what ever you are wanting to catch can get in.  They put zinc on them to keep them from rusting.  They have different sizes;  7ft x 8ft weighs about 1000lbs,  7ft x 7ft weighs about 800lbs, the old timers had ones that were 4ft x 5ft about 300lbs and did push them off the boat by hand.  If you wanted to take one and put it on the ocean bottom you would need a commerical fishing boat at least 25ft with a wench so you can pick it up.   He also said that if you wanted young strong guys to do it, it would take about 5 or 6 and you would have to bait them with something to get them to do it. LOL  They are very hard to move from say a beach or boat with out the right equipment.  If you wanted to put something say in a pot on the bottom and did not have a big boat or the right equipment you could just get a diver with scuba dive gear to go say 90ft

The trap was symmetrical in width and length at approximately 7.5 ft. It was approximately 2.25-2.5 ft high.  You're correct about the ROV video lens distorting perspective due to the paralax view lens. 

Not sure if you saw this Caesu? It makes me wonder if that had anything to do with them not extending Van Der Stratens contract in Bonaire?

www.amigoe.com/english/ on February 24


Bonaire still without corps leader

KRALENDIJK – Since Jan van Straten left late January, Bonaire is still without a chief of police.  His contract ran out per February 1.  Justice-minister David Dick (PAR) regrets the fact that the Netherlands didn’t cooperate and let Van der Straten stay a little longer until a new chief of police was appointed.

Van der Straten works for the Dutch police and they decided that he had to go back. The council of ministers would decide on a new chief of police this month in anticipation of the application committee.  The corps of police is currently led by chief inspector Oscar Obispo.  Minister Dick confirmed this morning that no decision was made yet on the chief of police.  He said two weeks ago:  “We will make sure that Bonaire gets a good chief of police.”

He has told us what he could, and we really shouldn't pressure him to disclose more. He wants to be friendly and helpful, but he has boundaries imposed on him. I say we just enjoy his conversation when he feels free to talk to us.

Peter R de Vries on Robert Jensen Show

-talking about the book-incident on DWDD, they show the clip
-tomorrow Beth will be on, pre-recorded, Beth told Robert that she's very grateful to Peter
-behind the scenes a lot going on, investigation re-opened
-Joran still murder-suspect
-cannot be solved within one week, takes time
-Robert could tell that when Joran was on his show, that he was holding back, 99% of the audience felt that too, not that he was lying but he was holding back information, he knew more than he was letting on
-Peter's investigation in 2006, was clear to Peter then that Joran was involved, it's strange that Joran wanted to remain silent, if you're innocent all you want to do is tell the truth, not remain silent. Joran couldn't answer the simplest questions
-Peter asked questions on P&W-show (wine incident) Joran couldn't or wouldn't answer
-Peter's wife said to Anita on P&W-show, while she was helping Peter getting wine out of his eyes: "You educated your son well" in a very sarcastic way
-Peter still talks to Beth on a regular basis

The reason van der straten wanted to arresr brinkman was for the remarks about them being corrupt. On top of that Brinkman has said something along the lines of: Why havent we sold these islands on marktplaats.nl yet(Marktplaats=something like ebay). Straten said he would arrest him if he made that kind of comments while in Bonaire

TY! It was said that years ago he worked for Paul Van Der Sloot and that is most likely where they became good friends. We know that Rudy Croes was very upset with wire tapping in June 2005 and we suspect that was between JANVDS and PVDS,We know just from Jorans book that they were probably in contact on a regular basis but I guess that is obvious.

I wonder what Van Der Stratens next assignment will be? We heard last night from Jossy he is in Aruba but not involved in this case.

My BIL would be one of the "old timers" and he'd pop ya right in the mouth for saying that!  I think his cage was about  4 x 5.  He did have a winch onboard.  We put overboard to drag for interesting stuff in Cape Cod Bay just for grins. 

i can't stand jensen but of course i will watch this and tomorrow beth!
i hope peter r. will give a hint of what he is up to next.
but i doubt that, i think he won't show his cards too early.

i am almost sure it will be uploaded to usenet same as all previous jensen shows.
so i watch it from there tomorrow so i can skip the idols appearance.
i might upload it then to youtube if it is not there yet.
mabe i try to add subtitles but i have too study how to do this with a tool like vobsub.

Peter R de Vries on Robert Jensen Show

-talking about the book-incident on DWDD, they show the clip
-tomorrow Beth will be on, pre-recorded, Beth told Robert that she's very grateful to Peter
-behind the scenes a lot going on, investigation re-opened
-Joran still murder-suspect
-cannot be solved within one week, takes time
-Robert could tell that when Joran was on his show, that he was holding back, 99% of the audience felt that too, not that he was lying but he was holding back information, he knew more than he was letting on
-Peter's investigation in 2006, was clear to Peter then that Joran was involved, it's strange that Joran wanted to remain silent, if you're innocent all you want to do is tell the truth, not remain silent. Joran couldn't answer the simplest questions
-Peter asked questions on P&W-show (wine incident) Joran couldn't or wouldn't answer
-Peter's wife said to Anita on P&W-show, while she was helping Peter getting wine out of his eyes: "You educated your son well" in a very sarcastic way
-Peter still talks to Beth on a regular basis

At the end he said something about anita and pauls attitude. During the show (P&W) they were defending their son, good boy, nice to people, respectful to girls, etc and that if they had any reason to believe that he was involved they would take him to the police themselves. He then added that this would be a good moment to go see the authorities and have a serious talk.

Maybe a stupid question but can anyone tell me who Rita is

From PVDS PB june 23

After depositing the money I went home. I cannot exactly remember
what time it was when I got home. I think it was 16.15 hours. According
to me both Rita and Joran where at home.

Short summary:
He was just on..nice interview. No real news / scoops; just a conversation about De Wereld Draait Door (not related to Natalee) - wine throwing incident - the Pauw & Witteman interview and that he has regular contact with Beth.

Robert Jensen made the comment that after the confession nothing seemed to have happened. Peter said that before the case was closed, Joran wanted to claim money etc and now the investigation is open again; he is a murdersuspect & that they're working very hard on the case (and the way he said it made it look like he is in contact with people who are doing the investigation...but that's not really a surprise...) but results aren't there overnight.
Peter also stated that after he went to Aruba to investigate, talk to people, see the surroundings were it all happened he was sure that Joran knew more...if you've got nothing to hide / are innocent you don't keep your mouth shut...

They also talked about Jorans' parents...they claimed in the Pauw & Witteman interview they would have brought Joran to the police if they thought that he had something to do with it or knew more...Peter joked: Well they still have to go!

Maybe a stupid question but can anyone tell me who Rita is

From PVDS PB june 23

After depositing the money I went home. I cannot exactly remember
what time it was when I got home. I think it was 16.15 hours. According
to me both Rita and Joran where at home.

At the end he said something about anita and pauls attitude. During the show (P&W) they were defending their son, good boy, nice to people, respectful to girls, etc and that if they had any reason to believe that he was involved they would take him to the police themselves. He then added that this would be a good moment to go see the authorities and have a serious talk.

TY! It was said that years ago he worked for Paul Van Der Sloot and that is most likely where they became good friends. We know that Rudy Croes was very upset with wire tapping in June 2005 and we suspect that was between JANVDS and PVDS,We know just from Jorans book that they were probably in contact on a regular basis but I guess that is obvious.

I wonder what Van Der Stratens next assignment will be? We heard last night from Jossy he is in Aruba but not involved in this case.

The Maid

There were three ROV dive videos of the trap.  Video 1 : 29th Dec - ROV visual inspection of the trap.  (very small clip of this video on Dateline).  Remember, the Dateline footage was taken over our shoulders by filming the ROV monitor.  The footage is not the recorded ROV footage.
Video 2: Dec 30th - ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap.  This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted.  I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI.  Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me.  After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me.  I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't.  Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them. 

What you all really didn't know (nor Tim Miller when he said his statements to the press, neither Dateline NBC when they broadcasted their lovely special):

Video 3:  Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap.  The trap was not recovered.  Recovered samples sent for forensic analysis.  Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board.

The trap in Video 1-3 was found from the first conducted ROV dive.  I found the target at 1:46 am on Christmas morning.  It was my #1 ranked priority target and therefore the first of the ROV dive series. 

Several hours of footage were of other dives on other targets.  None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks.

TY! It was said that years ago he worked for Paul Van Der Sloot and that is most likely where they became good friends. We know that Rudy Croes was very upset with wire tapping in June 2005 and we suspect that was between JANVDS and PVDS,We know just from Jorans book that they were probably in contact on a regular basis but I guess that is obvious.

I wonder what Van Der Stratens next assignment will be? We heard last night from Jossy he is in Aruba but not involved in this case.

so Mos and Kruimel just have to sit their island adventure out. and never come back on the island afterwards.
that's one reason why i find those contract periods so bad. colonial attitude.
but there are not enough qualified arubans to do that job.
or arubans who studied law rather work in the netherlands maybe.

i doubt one is really committed i they have a safe exit strategy anyway.

They showed the whine incident again on the Jensen show and if i were Paulus and my son threw a glass of wine in somebody's without the other person having said or done anything to justify such an act i would have slapped him so hard that he'd be looking like this  ::MonkeyConfused:: three days later. So i doubt they ll take him to talk to the cops anytime soon.

I believe he will be PVDS personal bodyguard.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

They showed the whine incident again on the Jensen show and if i were Paulus and my son threw a glass of wine in somebody's without the other person having said or done anything to justify such an act i would have slapped him so hard that he'd be looking like this  ::MonkeyConfused:: three days later. So i doubt they ll take him to talk to the cops anytime soon.

SERIE: DE ANTILLEN, DEEL 1: DE DIENSTREIS

Om de dag vertrekt er vanaf Schiphol een delegatie Haagse ambtenaren naar de Nederlandse Antillen: 180 keer per jaar. 
     
De ambtenaren blijven daar gemiddeld een week. Ze geven er steun aan de ambtenaren ter plekke of nemen deel aan allerlei werkgroepen. Soms gaan ze alleen om zich aan de Antilliaanse collega' s voor te stellen.

De Nederlandse delegaties komen van verschillende ministeries en de kans is groot dat ze elkaar onverwachts tegenkomen. De dienstreizen worden in Den Haag namelijk niet gecoördineerd. Dat blijkt uit onderzoek van NOVA.

In de studio reageert staatssecretaris van Binnenlandse Zaken en Koninkrijksrelaties Ank Bijleveld.

The reason van der straten wanted to arresr brinkman was for the remarks about them being corrupt. On top of that Brinkman has said something along the lines of: Why havent we sold these islands on marktplaats.nl yet(Marktplaats=something like ebay). Straten said he would arrest him if he made that kind of comments while in Bonaire

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: I think Joran is the one that does the slapping in that family.

OE how long does it take to locate a given target with the rover-on average, assuming the boat is relatively close to it. How fast can it descend into the depths? And what about the density of the remaining targets, are they close, scattered, clustered, radom?

Maybe the Dutch media has their hands full over there without bothering with what's going on in Aruba?  Maybe they just don't care?  Is Aruba the black sheep of the family?

I don't know.   

Dutch Caribbean

I. Summary

Aruba, the Netherlands Antilles, and the Netherlands together form the Kingdom of the Netherlands. The two Caribbean parts of the Kingdom have autonomy over their internal affairs, with the right to exercise independent decision making in a number of counter narcotics areas. The Government of the Netherlands (GON) is responsible for the defense and foreign affairs of all three of the Kingdom and assists the Government of Aruba (GOA) and the Government of the Netherlands Antilles (GONA) in their efforts to combat narcotics trafficking. Negotiations are underway that are expected to result in the dissolution of the Netherlands Antilles in 2008, with Curacao and Sint Maarten to attain autonomous status similar to Aruba’s, while the islands of Bonaire and Saint Eustatius would become municipalities within the Kingdom of the Netherlands. Both Aruba and the Netherlands Antilles are active members of the Financial Action Task Force (FATF) and Caribbean Financial Action Task Force (CFATF) and are subject to the 1988 UN Drug Convention as part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands.

II. Status

Netherlands Antilles. The islands of the Netherlands Antilles (NA) (Curacao and Bonaire off Venezuela and Saba, Saint Eustatius, and Sint Maarten east of the U.S. Virgin Islands) continue to serve as northbound transshipment points for cocaine and increasing amounts of heroin coming from South America; chiefly Colombia, Venezuela, and to a much lesser extent, Suriname. Go-fast boats are typically used to transport drugs to U.S. territory in the Caribbean, although the use of fishing boats, freighters, and cruise ships is becoming more common. Direct transport to Europe, and at times to the U.S., is sometimes carried-out by “mules” (drug couriers) using commercial flights. The DEA and local law enforcement saw continued go-fast boat traffic this year with some load sizes reduced because of a potential exposure to law enforcement. This shift was attributed to successful investigations along with investments by the Antilles in border security like the new ground-based radar system capable of identifying inbound vessels. These shipments were generally en route to Puerto Rico or the U.S. Virgin Islands, but Sint Maarten continued to hold some measurable popularity among couriers as a gateway to Europe. In addition to go-fast boat activity and smuggling via commercial airlines, large quantities of narcotics continued to be moved through in cargo containers.

Sint Maarten’s geographic location and its multi-national population make it an ideal transshipment point between South America and the United States, for drugs and human smuggling. Dutch Sint Maarten is considered a “Free Zone”, which means there are limited controls placed on import and export of goods. This situation also applies to financial crimes. The absence of rigorous checks into monetary flows means that money laundering and proceeds from illegal activities are relatively easy to conceal. Sint Maarten announced draft legislation to be presented to Parliament in 2008 that would extend the requirement to report suspicious financial transactions to include not only banks and casinos but car dealers, jewelers, insurance companies, lawyers and accountants as well. In preparation for its expected autonomous status, Sint Maarten established a Crime Action Task Force to enhance law enforcement efforts against drug trafficking, human smuggling and money laundering.

In Curacao, the crackdown at Curacao’s Hato International Airport on “mules”—who either ingest or conceal on their bodies illegal drugs — continued during 2007. Detentions of mules declined from a high of 80 to 100 per day, to approximately 10 per month in 2007, according to local court statistics. The decline can be directly attributed to aggressive law enforcement tactics employed by Antillean authorities, in conjunction with their Dutch partners, coupled with innovative legislative tactics like the confiscation of the passports of Antillean couriers.

During 2007, the newly appointed Police Chief in conjunction with the Minister of Justice made a concentrated effort to improve Criminal Intelligence by creating a new Operational Intelligence Unit within the Curacao Police Corps. This specialized Intel Unit improved the investigative effectiveness of the police and successful joint Antillean/Dutch investigations conducted by the Hit and Run Money Laundering Team (HARM) have become commonplace during 2007.

The specialized Dutch police units (RSTs) that support law enforcement in the NA continued to be effective in 2007. RST Curacao had its biggest success in a joint international money laundering operation named Operation Kings Cross, which focused on illegal activities within the Curacao Free Zone. This operation resulted in the seizure of $120,000 in Euros and $130,000 in U.S. Currency and the arrest of the principal target in the investigation. In another joint RST investigation named Operation Pick Pocket results included the seizure of 542 kilograms of cocaine, 10 kilograms of heroin, and the arrest of 61 individuals.

The Netherlands Antilles and Aruba Coast Guard (CGNAA) was responsible for several seizures of cocaine, heroin, and marijuana during 2007. In October, the CGNAA, in coordination with the RST Curacao seized approximately 35 kilograms and a go-fast vessel. The CGNAA’s three cutters, outfitted with rigid-hull inflatable boats (RHIBs) and new ‘super’ RHIBs designed especially for counter narcotics work in the Caribbean, demonstrated their utility against go-fast boats and other targets.

The CGNAA has developed an effective counternarcotics intelligence service and is considered by the U.S. Coast Guard and DEA to be an invaluable international law enforcement partner. Under the continued leadership of the Attorney General, the GONA continued to strengthen its cooperation with U.S. law enforcement authorities throughout 2007. This cooperation extended to Sint Maarten, where the United States and the GONA continued joint efforts against international organized crime and drug trafficking.

The Dutch Navy also operates in the Netherlands Antilles under the auspices of Component Task Group 4.4 (CTG 4.4), which operates in international waters under the oversight of the Joint Inter Agency Task Force South (JIATF-S). Over the past two years, CTG 4.4 has become a close and essential ally of the DEA and other U.S. agencies. Their continual efforts to thwart drugs trafficking from the region have been noted at the highest levels of the DEA and U.S. government. Several notable seizures occurred during 2007. The most impressive effort was the tracking of a maritime vessel from Colombia, which culminated with the seizure of approximately 153 kilograms of heroin.

The GONA demonstrated its commitment to the counternarcotics effort by continued support for a U.S. Forward Operating Location (FOL) at the Curacao Hato International Airport. Under a ten-year use agreement, signed in March 2000 and ratified in October 2001 by the Dutch Parliament, U.S. military aircraft conduct counternarcotics detection and monitoring flights over both the source and transit zones from commercial ramp space provided free of charge.

Aruba. Aruba is a transshipment point for increasing quantities of heroin, and to a lesser extent cocaine that move north via cruise ships and the multiple daily flights to the U.S. and Europe. The island attracts drug traffickers because of its good infrastructure, excellent flight connections, and relatively light sentences for drug-related crimes served in prisons with relatively good living conditions.

While Aruba enjoys a low crime rate, crime reporting during 2007 indicates that prominent drug traffickers are established on the island. Drug abuse in Aruba, including among tourists, remains a cause for concern. Cruise lines that visit Aruba have strict boarding/search policies for employees in order to thwart efforts of the traffickers to establish regular courier routes back to the United States. The expanding use of MDMA in clubs by young people attracts increasing attention. Private foundations on the island work on drug education and prevention and the Aruba government’s top counter narcotics official actively reaches out to U.S. sources for materials to use in prevention programs. The police also work in demand reduction programs among local schools and visit them regularly. The GOA has established an interagency commission to develop plans and programs to discourage youth from trafficking between the Netherlands and the U.S. The GOA has been very clear that it intends to pursue a dynamic counternarcotics strategy in close cooperation with its regional and international partners.

In 2007, Aruba law enforcement officials continued to investigate and prosecute mid-level drug traffickers who supply drugs to “mules.” During 2007, there were several instances where Aruban authorities cooperated with U.S. authorities to carry out U.S. prosecutions of American citizens arrested in Aruba who were attempting to carry multi-kilogram quantities of drugs to the United States. Aruba also devotes substantial time and effort to the identification of the person’s responsible for the importation of drugs to Aruba.

The GOA hosts the Department of Homeland Security’s (DHS) Bureau of Customs and Border Protection (CBP) pre-inspection and pre-clearance personnel at Reina Beatrix airport. These officers occupy facilities financed and built by the GOA. DHS seizures of cocaine and heroin were frequent in 2007. Aruba officials regularly explore ways to capitalize on the presence of the FOL and pre-clearance personnel, seeking to use resident U.S. law enforcement expertise to improve local law enforcement capabilities. In September, CBP’s Office of International Affairs and Trade Relations provided training on the implementation of border enforcement best practices and the proper use of inspection tool kits in the examination of aircraft, containers, vehicles and cargo.

III. Actions Against Drugs in 2007

Accomplishments. Available drug seizure statistics for calendar year 2007, as of October 31, 2007, were: Aruba seized 390 kilograms of cocaine and 13 kilograms of heroin. The Netherlands Antilles seized 638 kilograms of cocaine and 10 kilograms of heroin.

Corruption. As a matter of policy, the NA does not encourage or facilitate the illicit production or distribution of narcotic or psychotropic drugs or other controlled substances, or the laundering of proceeds from illegal drug transactions. During 2007, the NA continued an aggressive and successful program to identify certain links from prominent traffickers in the region to law enforcement officials, which prompted additional investigation in the region. The NA has been quick to address these issues through criminal investigations, internal investigations, new hiring practices, and continued monitoring of law enforcement officials that hold sensitive positions. Aruba’s judiciary enjoys a well-deserved reputation for integrity. It has close ties with the Dutch legal system, including extensive seconding of Dutch prosecutors and judges to fill positions for which there are no qualified candidates among the small Antillean and Aruban populations.

Agreements and Treaties. The Netherlands extended the 1988 UN Drug Convention to the NA and Aruba in March 1999, with the reservation that its obligations under certain provisions would only be applicable in so far as they were in accordance with NA and Aruba criminal legislation and policy on criminal matters. The NA and Aruba subsequently enacted revised, uniform legislation to resolve a lack of uniformity between the asset forfeiture laws of the NA and Aruba. The obligations of the Netherlands as a party to the 1961 UN Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, as amended by the 1972 Protocol, the Inter-American Convention against Corruption, and the UN Convention against Transnational Organized Crime and its three protocols apply to the NA and Aruba. The obligations of the Netherlands under the 1971 UN Convention on Psychotropic Substances have applied to the NA since March 10, 1999. The Netherlands’s Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty (MLAT) with the United States applies to the NA and Aruba. Both Aruba and the NA routinely honor requests made under the MLAT and cooperate extensively with the United States on law enforcement matters at less formal levels.

Cultivation/Production. Cultivation and production of illicit drugs are not issues.

Domestic Programs (Demand Reduction). Both the NA and Aruba have ongoing demand reduction programs, but need additional resources. In 2007, the Curacao Police Corps, in conjunction with Drug Abuse Resistance Education program (D.A.R.E.), opened a new D.A.R.E. facility in Willemstad, Curacao to aid in youth Demand Reduction activities.

IV. U.S. Policy Initiatives and Programs

The United States encourages Aruba and NA law enforcement officials to participate in INL-funded regional training courses provided by U.S. agencies at the GOA and GONA’s expense. Chiefly through the DEA and DHS/Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the United States is able to provide assistance to enhance technical capabilities as well as some targeted training. The U.S. continues to search for ways in which locally assigned U.S. law enforcement personnel can share their expertise with host country counterparts.

Appreciation of the importance of intelligence to effective law enforcement has grown in the Dutch Caribbean. The USG is expanding intelligence sharing with GOA and GONA officials as they realize the mutual benefits that result from such sharing. As U.S.-provided intelligence must meet the strict requirements of local law, sharing of intelligence and law enforcement information requires ongoing, extensive liaison work to bridge the difference between U.S. and Dutch-based law.

Road Ahead. Drug trafficking and related money laundering and criminal violence continue to threaten the Dutch Caribbean. The expansion of law enforcement cooperation between the U.S., Dutch, and Aruba and Netherlands Antilles will serve to protect the Dutch Caribbean from these threats and contribute to broader counternarcotics efforts in the Caribbean as well.

Peter R de Vries on Robert Jensen Show

-talking about the book-incident on DWDD, they show the clip
-tomorrow Beth will be on, pre-recorded, Beth told Robert that she's very grateful to Peter
-behind the scenes a lot going on, investigation re-opened
-Joran still murder-suspect
-cannot be solved within one week, takes time
-Robert could tell that when Joran was on his show, that he was holding back, 99% of the audience felt that too, not that he was lying but he was holding back information, he knew more than he was letting on
-Peter's investigation in 2006, was clear to Peter then that Joran was involved, it's strange that Joran wanted to remain silent, if you're innocent all you want to do is tell the truth, not remain silent. Joran couldn't answer the simplest questions
-Peter asked questions on P&W-show (wine incident) Joran couldn't or wouldn't answer
-Peter's wife said to Anita on P&W-show, while she was helping Peter getting wine out of his eyes: "You educated your son well" in a very sarcastic way
-Peter still talks to Beth on a regular basis

Wanted to shout out to our Dutch Monkeys and tell you how much I enjoy reading your posts and appreciate your updates from the media in Holland. Wish we'd had you here from the start and didn't have to get our information from the Dutch trolls who were in the Van der Sloot camp. Welcome!
 
 ::MonkeyWink:: ::MonkeyWink:: ::MonkeyWink::

Thank you Kyle.

The size of the trap/cage did appear so much larger in the image on Dateline.  The divers appeared very small in comparison.

Janet

+++++++++

Dr. Hodges:

The fisherman described the cage as made of 3/8-inch iron (such as that used in concrete reinforcing—"rebar") with a frame size approximately 5 ½ feet by 4 feet by 17 inches. He described it as a large fishing cage with its frame wrapped in chicken wire with its familiar hexagonal openings but with an opening in one panel which allowed them to trap fish. He believed that, given its size and weight, it would take two men to manage the cage. Once aboard, it would lay low on the floor of the nearby fishing boat.

http://forensicthoughtprints.com/aruba/default.html

According to Dave and Art Wood thats how he acted in June 2005. We know he showed up with Dennis Jacobs on his day off flashing his gun around,they took at as a obvious sign to back off from the Van Der Sloots.

Jo-An  - Thanks!  I heard Beth will also be on Paul & Wittman (sp) tomorrow.

I agree.  He should have been backhanded right then and right there.

Of course, it would probably be the first time he got what he had coming.

Can you just imagine the shock?....you send pictures
to the FBI and the next thing you know the pictures
are on the internet.

I haven't read all the way back yet but has this been posted:

http://www.nu.nl/news/1461794/20/'Aruba_doorvoerhaven_van_hero%efne'.html

Little bit translated:

 Aruba transit port of heroin '
ORANJESTAD - Aruba is a transit port for heroin and to a lesser degree of cocaine. Drug use on the island, also under tourists, remains a point of care. That stands in a report which The international Narcotics Strategy Friday to the American congress in America to report (INSCR) have offered. The report over the year 2007 has been made Monday public.
 
Cruising ships
The drugs would further be transported as from the island by means of cruising ships which put on Aruba and the daily flights as from the island to America and Europe. According to the report Aruba is interesting for smugglers by the ' good infrastructure, excellent flight connections and relatively light punish for drug trafficking in relatively good circumstances '. The report communicates that Aruba has crime indeed little, but that becomes clear that from crime research in 2007, ' prominent on the island has established drug traffickers '.
------------


Sounds like business as usual in Aruba.

I agree, Destiny.

The time it takes to dive and locate a target depends largely on sea conditions and water depth.  In water depth of 400 ft with moderate seas it was consistently taking 5 minutes to locate the target with the ROV based on the side scan data.  The coordinates I was giving the ROV pilot were consistently within a few feet of the actual target and often fell within the actual target.  This precision is only possible with perfect USBL (ultra-short baseline) acoustic navigation and very diligent working.  10 years ago this precision and resolution was not possible.  To answer your question it would take about a day, with daylight operations only, to dive on about 15-25 targets.  We would often "bounce dive" targets of little interest.  The dives are conducted in a combination of priority and distribution.  When targets are widely-spaced, location takes more control on operations.  When targets are close together, highest priority wins.  In any case, the top priority targets are done first regardless.   Basically, we had three levels of priority. 
P1 targets were targets interpreted to likely be a fish trap.  P2 targets were interpreted to be possible containers or a possible fish trap, but less clear.  P3 targets were targets of little interest, but deemed worthy of inspection. 

1. Why not? You must be aware there is more speculation than facts in these forums.

2. If you refuse to comment on the contents we will have to assume, remains were found and your response is a legalistic "no comment"

I think the problem with "western" democracies is that the powers that rule want everyone to believe that corruption is a problem of third world countries. It only happens in the "bananna republics " of this planet. In our civilized societies, Europe, the US etc there is no such thing. WRONG it happens everywhere at all levels. Most people in power have a personal agenda. Be it money, a need for power, status, whatever. We just seem to have a notion that it is better, so that no one is embarrassed, to promote people that are under suspicion of corruption away to another job or position. I firmly believe that the corruption angle is visible to the guy on the street but he or she simply does not have the means to do anything about it. The people in power if pressured enough will switch a few pawns around until the general public seems to be pleased with the solution they came up with, and then it's bussiness as usual.

(http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1057/skullnocolorur2.jpg)

Same object that appears to be a skull with color removed and flipped the pic around

http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2007

and then on the corruption preception index aruba is put together with the netherlands and all is fine.
but all countries surrounding aruba are bright red.

and i think the justice system on aruba is very different from the netherlands for quite a few reasons so they shouldn't put it together with the netherlands. there's a different book of law and a independent OM.
they share the same queen and the same supreme court, but the supreme court reverts back to lower court, doesn't handle cases themselves.
and also the colonial contract judges and prosecutors make things different.
they don't send aruba judges of prosecutors to the netherlands for 3 years or do they?

I have done my homework. Not all that I posted is geared journalistically.  Some things I had written were specifically geared to send a message.  At times, this message was for only a few people.  This post at SM "praising Aruban authorities" was done with contextual purpose. Eveything I write ends up being read by people who are extremely interested and close to the case.  In context, we (the search team) needed to rapidly gain the trust and cooperation of the Aruban authorities.  Before we arrived, here was no trust, little cooperation, and no sharing of information. Take this for what it's worth:  Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.  Also, don't make assumptions about what I have or have not read.

Not all that I write is my true feelings but is aimed at true purpose. Not everything is clear or should be taken just at face value.

Oh come on Gang... give OE   a break... He has a job to do with certain rules in place!

Why keep asking him to break the rules?   Hell I bet he wants to talk about it but has enough integertiy NOT to.
JMO of course

Peter R de Vries on Robert Jensen Show

-talking about the book-incident on DWDD, they show the clip
-tomorrow Beth will be on, pre-recorded, Beth told Robert that she's very grateful to Peter
-behind the scenes a lot going on, investigation re-opened
-Joran still murder-suspect
-cannot be solved within one week, takes time
-Robert could tell that when Joran was on his show, that he was holding back, 99% of the audience felt that too, not that he was lying but he was holding back information, he knew more than he was letting on
-Peter's investigation in 2006, was clear to Peter then that Joran was involved, it's strange that Joran wanted to remain silent, if you're innocent all you want to do is tell the truth, not remain silent. Joran couldn't answer the simplest questions
-Peter asked questions on P&W-show (wine incident) Joran couldn't or wouldn't answer
-Peter's wife said to Anita on P&W-show, while she was helping Peter getting wine out of his eyes: "You educated your son well" in a very sarcastic way
-Peter still talks to Beth on a regular basis

So foolish and so careless.   Stunning.

HAHAHA!
I knew Peter's wife said something sarcastic to anita,thank you Jo-An ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1057/skullnocolorur2.jpg)

Same object that appears to be a skull with color removed and flipped the pic around

This reminds me of the book by Iris Johansen called Face of Deception..Creepy indeed..

I posted this a while back and i m not saying that's why she went to aruba but ......

http://www.blikopdewereld.nl/economie/de_zaak_koch.htm

Officier van Justitie Janssen en onderzoeksrechter W.-Bruinsma zijn in het voortraject volgens Moszkowicz opmerkelijk vriendelijk voor Koch geweest. ,,Wat weten we van zijn ziekte? Alleen wat hij zelf zegt. Ik heb nooit een medische onderbouwing gezien. De indruk zou kunnen ontstaan dat er tussen de verdachte en het Openbaar Ministerie een overeenkomst is gesloten, om Koch zo ver te krijgen hen op een andere manier van informatie te voorzien,'' stelde de raadsman. Officier van Justitie K. Janssen reageerde niet op deze aantijging.

Karin Janssen and Moszkowicz have been om opposite sides in court before....

This was in the biggest investement scam (about 145mil guilders +/- 65mil Euros)  in Holland to date
It involves a german guy named Koch

Short Translation of the above:

Karin Jansen "officer of justice" (srry don t know the english term) and judge Bruinsma have according to Moszkowicz been remarkably friendly to Koch (Janssen and Bruinsma claimed he was to sick to be interrogated)
Moszkowicz: What do we know about this illness? Only what Kock himself says. I have never seen any medical evidence of illness. The impression could arise that the suspect and the Openbaar Ministerie have made some sort of deal. Karen Janssen chose not to react to this accusation of Moszkowicz

Oh and... Karen Jansen never witnessed the end of this case cuse she was sent to Aruba.

The time it takes to dive and locate a target depends largely on sea conditions and water depth.  In water depth of 400 ft with moderate seas it was consistently taking 5 minutes to locate the target with the ROV based on the side scan data.  The coordinates I was giving the ROV pilot were consistently within a few feet of the actual target and often fell within the actual target.  This precision is only possible with perfect USBL (ultra-short baseline) acoustic navigation and very diligent working.  10 years ago this precision and resolution was not possible.  To answer your question it would take about a day, with daylight operations only, to dive on about 15-25 targets.  We would often "bounce dive" targets of little interest.  The dives are conducted in a combination of priority and distribution.  When targets are widely-spaced, location takes more control on operations.  When targets are close together, highest priority wins.  In any case, the top priority targets are done first regardless.   Basically, we had three levels of priority. 
P1 targets were targets interpreted to likely be a fish trap.  P2 targets were interpreted to be possible containers or a possible fish trap, but less clear.  P3 targets were targets of little interest, but deemed worthy of inspection. 

I too think it is a skull.  If it is in fact a skull and DNA proves it not to be Natalee, I hope they let one of those talented people recreate the face.  There is a woman in the US who is particularly excellent at this skill and has worked with many in law enforcement on especially difficult and mysterious cases, but her name escapes me at the moment.

Anita's reply was: it seems like i didn't

Anita's reply was: it seems like i didn't

How weird that that subject is what this book is about...Very scarey read..

Assassinated or missing in Venezuela

Carlos Augusto Aumatrie (assassinated)
Juan Carlos Urbano Lugo (assassinated)
Jose Manuel Vilas Liñera (assassinated)
Omar Arturo Morales
Juan Jose Perez
Juan Ernesto Sanchez
Andres Bastidas Guedes
Jose Luis Rodriguez
Eduardo Jose Miranda
Julio Cesar Gomez
Rafael Tomas Pulido Marcano (APPEARED BADLY TORTURED)
Pedro Jose Sanchez Robles (assassinated)
William Alvarez Morales (assassinated)
Yormy Rafael Suarez Riveros (assassinated)
Evangelina Carrizo (assassinated)
Dictor Damas (assassinated)
Bruno Biella (assassinated)
Marvin Carrasco
Nelly Rodriguez Martinez (assassinated)
Jose Guevara Reyes (assassinated)
Juan Carlos Zambrano (assassinated)
Argenis Dugarte (assassinated)
Jose Guevara Reyes (assassinated)
Jose Sanchez Robles (assassinated)
Jose Luis Ricaurte (assassinated)
José Antonio Quero
Carlos Armando López Martínez
Nelson Alexander Batista
Orlando Antonio Bustamante, (soldier: severely burnt whilst under military arrest)
Ángel Ciro Pedreáñez, (soldier: severely burnt whilst under military arrest)
Maritza Ron, assassinated in Altamira Square on August 16th 2004
Silvino Bustillos. Gone missing on October 31 2004. Has not been seen since. Allegedly tortured and assassinated by a Military Intelligence squad commanded by National Guard Lieutenant Danny Alfredo Daniels Perez.
Antonio Lopez Castillo, assassinated by the State police
Juan Carlos Sanchez, assassinated by the State police
Romer Luján, (soldier: severely burnt whilst under military arrest)
Raúl Royett Gutiérrez, (soldier: severely burnt whilst under military arrest)
Leonardo González Lárez (student), assassinated by a military police death squad on June 27th 2005
Edgar Quintero Torrealba (student), assassinated by a military police death squad on June 27th 2005
Erick Miguel Montenegro Sánchez (student), assassinated by a military police death squad on June 27th 2005

http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200403020624

Just no telling who it is in that trap down there if it's human...

Where I work (and it's not a particularly exotic place), EVERYTHING is on a need-to-know basis. I can only imagine the shock I would feel if I gave something to someone in confidentiality and had it show up on the internet later. My first thought would be that I was in for an internal investigation and possibly the loss of my job. I'm not saying this to be ugly about anyone, just saying I can understand Kyle's reaction at seeing the photos on the web.

I think the problem with "western" democracies is that the powers that rule want everyone to believe that corruption is a problem of third world countries. It only happens in the "bananna republics " of this planet. In our civilized societies, Europe, the US etc there is no such thing. WRONG it happens everywhere at all levels. Most people in power have a personal agenda. Be it money, a need for power, status, whatever. We just seem to have a notion that it is better, so that no one is embarrassed, to promote people that are under suspicion of corruption away to another job or position. I firmly believe that the corruption angle is visible to the guy on the street but he or she simply does not have the means to do anything about it. The people in power if pressured enough will switch a few pawns around until the general public seems to be pleased with the solution they came up with, and then it's bussiness as usual.

Most likely, the person so close to the case was tired and acted in reckless abandon before thinking.  [ I bet the FBI was surprised. ]

Anita's reply was: it seems like i didn't

Why does this remind me a bit of Joran's last judicial review, before the case was (briefly) closed? Remember how Hans Mos, the prosecutor, suggested to the court that Joran is mentally ill? The judges evidently considered Mos statement in their decision to release Joran. This was done without the opinion of a qualified mental health professional.

Why did Mos, the prosecutor, suggest something that favours the defence argument? Why did the judges consider this suggestion with no evidence from a qualified professional to back it up?

Do you happen to know if she will be the only guest? Uhmm...well that hasn't happened yet on that show so probably that's just wishfull thinking...perhaps with Peter R. de Vries & Patrick van der Eem (or is he still in Aruba)? Then they will really have some time to talk about the case / the corruption.

JE   ::MonkeyEek::
Did Anita really say that? Are you making a joke?
If she really gave that answer, it sounds like she may be finally beginning to get a clue!
Wow! Anita - snap out of it 

(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l28/TallyAnna/smilies/snapoutofit.gif)

i did have high hopes in nico jörg, the procureur general. that's is something like the one person down from rudy croes.
i read some good articles about him.
but he is the care taker procureur general since fernandez-croes announce stepping down by january 2008 but already went on leave juli 2007.
so i think very soon rudy croes will replace nico jörg with one of his cronies.
which is a shame because nico jörg seems to be a good one. but he got frustrated by rudy croes, that's what i read between the lines.
maybe he will speak out after he get replaced...

yes it is said that venezuela is the most dangerous country in s-america and caracas the most dangerous city.
of course this is disputable, but dangerous it is for a fact.
coming week a dutch travel program starts and they hitchhike from mexico to venezuela.
i am sure they've got a lot of bodyguards with them in venezuela. must have.
as a tourist you can't go for a walk in venezuelan city. as a local it is fine.
if a money transport has to visit a bank they've got half an army battalion surroundig the bank and blocking a streets with huge automatic machine guns ready to fire pointing in all directions. i thought wtf is happening here. it was just a regular money transport.

colombia has their coast protected in some way so drugs can go to venezuela and then cariben and of to the us and europa.
[/quote


I don't guess I'll be going there anytime soon.I do wish I could see this program you are talking about.It would be interesting to watch..
It could even be Amy Bradley in that cage.She wasn't ever found either...

I think he's trying very hard to do so...he did it in his first special when the angle of  'the friend of the family' opening the door at the Van der Sloots house when the housesearch was going to happen was very important in the show...and with the cellphone - prison thing in his latest special.
He has said  that he's got 'his own ideas' about Paul van der Sloot (and we all know what that means ;-)...). But he won't say it out loud if he doesn't have stuff to back it up. In his position credibility means just about everything & because of that he can't say things without proof. But he is aware of Paul van der Sloot & his buddies helping out Joran and ???; the rest of the media seem to have focused on Joran.

Maybe it's also because the media can't really bring it up since it's mostly news / talkshows that bring the case. News: you need prove / Talkshow: not too much detail & difficulty concerning the subject...10 / 15 minutes max. for an item.
Newspapers should have picked it up though; it's weird they haven't really done that.

I also watched it tonight, what i didnt saw at pauw en witteman with the wine throwing incident is that Peters wife immediately throw water in Jorans face.. quick reaction  ::MonkeyCool::

According to Jan himself he has political aspirations in the Antilles. I think Dompig's Shieldgroup is no longer in business as well so they both may be out of work. Dompig is currently in the running for a high level position with the ALE.

No comment on the contents of the cage is still odd, after describing in detail the gae size and dimensions. The quick "thumbs down" signal from the dive team tells me it was nothing. Likely OE has signed a privacy and intelluctual rights agreement. All photos and information property of the company. I would expect a book deal, with detailed photos and a daily log outlining the search. This will allow a portion of the search expenses to be recovered.

Yes, we owe the search team our gratitute, However, if they wont comment, there is nothing preventing them from explaning why no comment. Thats a reasonable expectation.

That cage did not hold Natalee.

From the 45 justices working for the Court of Aruba and the Antilles:

11 started working there after Paul van der Sloot became a suspect
15 started working there much later than Paul van der Sloot

Only 19 might be friends of Paul van der Sloot and of them 14 were Curacao justices.

Me Too Tot! I Believe Him!  ::MonkeyNoNo::

 :smt022

To clarify the thumb down issue:

-It was agreed immediately before the 30-Dec dive that 2 thumbs up (by Tim Trahan) meant positive ID on Natalee from something conclusive.
-One thumb up was to indicate human remains

-There was no set signal pre-dive for anything but the above scenarios.
 
By Tim's own admission, his observation of the inside of the trap (lasting a few seconds) was inconclusive. His signal indicated an inconclusive observation referring to the object said by some to be a skull, a hardened sponge by others...
What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility.
The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up .

That might be her - not sure.  The woman I was referring to has worked with John Walsh on several high profile cases.  One that comes to mind is the one in south Florida where a hiker stumbled upon eight (I think) skeletal remains.  She recreated all their faces and was so accurate they were almost all immediately identified by their families.  The reconstructions side by side by the persons photographs were remarkable.  Absolutely amazing.

Ocean Ex, don't feel obligated to answer anything your even the least bit uncomfortable answering. I think eveyone just wants you to be able to relax, enjoy the group, offer what you can, with no expectations from us of you.

They (the authorities) can still maintain the chain of evidence; their chain.  Perhaps they (those appearing to snub) are not realizing that.  Again, there are most likely reasons other than the "snub."  However some people do tend to be thinking themselves "special."  It is their whole life to be on the inside of a circle.  There are many circles, but one life.  These same people will suck the sap out of each other and move on and try to do the same thing in as many "circles" as they can until they are convinced they are the circle. What I am comparing this to is a street scene murder where there is a yellow tape, but still onlookers can see a lot, but not know the circumstances and cannot see as well as those inside the tape.  Yes, they are being over cautious for either lack of knowledge or maybe even   financial gain,   LOL   Jackb

To clarify the thumb down issue:

-It was agreed immediately before the 30-Dec dive that 2 thumbs up (by Tim Trahan) meant positive ID on Natalee from something conclusive.
-One thumb up was to indicate human remains

-There was no set signal pre-dive for anything but the above scenarios.
 
By Tim's own admission, his observation of the inside of the trap (lasting a few seconds) was inconclusive. His signal indicated an inconclusive observation referring to the object said by some to be a skull, a hardened sponge by others...
What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility.
The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up .

Underwater construction, discovering lost worlds, fortunes on shipwrecks, and or recovering victims. You'll be part of the generations that robs the oceans of her secrets, with a direct involvement and a front row seat:)

Ocean Ex, don't feel obligated to answer anything your even the least bit uncomfortable answering. I think eveyone just wants you to be able to relax, enjoy the group, offer what you can, with no expectations from us of you.

Kermit's pic:

(http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1057/skullnocolorur2.jpg)

Jackb's adjustment/enhancement of Kermit's pic:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/cid_000701c87d97d74339e09299a83fcom.jpg)

Uh.....maybe not so PI.  jb

What I want to know Ocean Ex is did you see any sunken treasures?

I appreciate the offer, I accept.  I will not talk about what I shouldn't, let alone what I can't.  However, I believe what is already out in the open is better off made clear and accurate, rather than thrown out in the open and left for passionate people to decifer (based on 6 screen shots, a few comments by people who weren't present the entire time, and some fuzzy Dateline footage).   

Kermit's pic:

(http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1057/skullnocolorur2.jpg)

Jackb's adjustment/enhancement of Kermit's pic:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/cid_000701c87d97d74339e09299a83fcom.jpg)

Don't be holding out on us now OE! Answer the question!  ::MonkeyWink::

Venezuela's Chavez May Have Given $300 Million to Colombia's Leftist Rebels, Police Say

http://www.theledger.com/article/20080303/BREAKING/581926771

Nuggets:

“When they mention negotiations for 50 kilos of uranium this means that the FARC are taking big steps in the world of terrorism to become a global aggressor. We’re not talking of domestic guerrilla but transnational terrorism,” said Naranjo, without giving more details.


 ::MonkeyShocked::

current affairs program NOVA is doing a series about The Antilles (and Aruba i suppose - some name them together)

haven't watched it yet, but i will.

http://www.novatv.nl/index.cfm?ln=nl&fuseaction=videoaudio.details&reportage_id=5853&CFID=38346573&CFTOKEN=55476033



the first segment was about government/state delegations travelling every other day to the Antilles for al kinds of workgroups or support roles on the islands. or just to introduce themselves to their Antilles colleague.
they stay on islands a week on average.

these trips are not co-ordinated by The Hague. so it happend that those delegations unexpectedly bump into eachother.
Ank Bijleveld, cabinet secretary for Kingdom affairs reacts in the studio.

i don't know what the real issue is here but i suspect wasting money on easy holidays in the sun.
but i go watch it this week and report back.

maybe the other segments in this series will cover more interesting subjects.

What I want to know Ocean Ex is did you see any sunken treasures?

OE - we are used to creepy after a year of this.  You'ld be surprised the things we have actually uncovered simply by lightening up a dark photograph.  I'm not referring to the trap pictures, but others in the case.

Kermit's pic:

(http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1057/skullnocolorur2.jpg)

Jackb's adjustment/enhancement of Kermit's pic:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/cid_000701c87d97d74339e09299a83fcom.jpg)

Hi all,

Well it is not over till Natalee is send home.

XTC DNA area may hold many mystery...
The parked Hour Pendulum is now set in motion.
Several Guillotine are being sharpen.
when the Hour Pendulum reach 240 swing the auto Guillotine will fall.
the foundation of babylon will be shake.

To be continue...

Probably already posted but anyway:

A response out of Aruba to this report:

 03 mrt 2008, 18.14  ' Aruba transit port of heroin '

ORANJESTAD - Aruba is a transit port for heroin and to a lesser degree of cocaine. Drug use on the island, also under tourists, remains a point of care. Stands in a report which The international Narcotics Strategy Friday to the American congress in America to report (INSCR) have offered. The report over the year 2007 has been made Monday public.

The drugs would further be transported as from the island by means of cruising ships which put on Aruba and the daily flights as from the island to America and Europe. According to the report Aruba is interesting for smugglers by the ' good infrastructure, excellent flight connections and relatively light punish for drug trafficking in relatively good circumstances '.

The report communicates that Aruba has crime indeed little, but that becomes clear that from crime research in 2007, ' prominent on the island has established drug traffickers '.

 The Public Prosecution Service on Aruba "does not understand" on which the US base their conclusion concerning Aruba. According to head officier Hans mos there was previous year on the island one capture of thirteen kilos heroin. That is no large quantity. By remainder are talk of a decreasing recent development, in 2000, 78 kilos were intercepted there there. Both in heroin and in cocaine and ecstasy considerably less is acted by the stricter supervision, among which the hundred percent controls in the Netherlands.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3457453/__Aruba_doorvoerhaven_van_herone___.html?p=1,1

I think perhaps he is waiting for your definition of hidden treasures.  Gold bullion?  Is so, where would that be exactly??  Just among friends of course.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Hi all,

Well it is not over till Natalee is send home.

XTC DNA area may hold many mystery...
The parked Hour Pendulum is now set in motion.
Several Guillotine are being sharpen.
when the Hour Pendulum reach 240 swing the auto Guillotine will fall.
the foundation of babylon will be shake.

To be continue...

That would fall into the category: "Not telling". 

We did come across about 8 obvious wrecks and a few others which may be ballast piles and/or wreck related debris, but I'm not certain.  We only dove on the Catamaran wreckage. Several wrecks were known as wrecks in the area, but their locations unknown.  The remaining are complete unknowns. In my opinion none will enable me to retire, not that I would.

Probably already posted but anyway:

A response out of Aruba to this report:

 03 mrt 2008, 18.14  ' Aruba transit port of heroin '

ORANJESTAD - Aruba is a transit port for heroin and to a lesser degree of cocaine. Drug use on the island, also under tourists, remains a point of care. Stands in a report which The international Narcotics Strategy Friday to the American congress in America to report (INSCR) have offered. The report over the year 2007 has been made Monday public.

The drugs would further be transported as from the island by means of cruising ships which put on Aruba and the daily flights as from the island to America and Europe. According to the report Aruba is interesting for smugglers by the ' good infrastructure, excellent flight connections and relatively light punish for drug trafficking in relatively good circumstances '.

The report communicates that Aruba has crime indeed little, but that becomes clear that from crime research in 2007, ' prominent on the island has established drug traffickers '.

 The Public Prosecution Service on Aruba "does not understand" on which the US base their conclusion concerning Aruba. According to head officier Hans mos there was previous year on the island one capture of thirteen kilos heroin. That is no large quantity. By remainder are talk of a decreasing recent development, in 2000, 78 kilos were intercepted there there. Both in heroin and in cocaine and ecstasy considerably less is acted by the stricter supervision, among which the hundred percent controls in the Netherlands.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3457453/__Aruba_doorvoerhaven_van_herone___.html?p=1,1

That would fall into the category: "Not telling". 

We did come across about 8 obvious wrecks and a few others which may be ballast piles and/or wreck related debris, but I'm not certain.  We only dove on the Catamaran wreckage. Several wrecks were known as wrecks in the area, but their locations unknown.  The remaining are complete unknowns. In my opinion none will enable me to retire, not that I would.

Klass

I'm appalled that the alleged photos of a skull are even on this site. Kyle has already told you there was NO human remains. It's time to stop with the nasty photos. I'm sure if Beth or Dave saw what SM was doing to try to disprove OE they would not be happy.l

Oceanexplorer - example:

Here you see a dark photo, taken at night of Freddy Arambatzis and Satish Kalpoe:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/fs.jpg)

By simply brightening it up a bit we can see it's Freddy and Satish in JORAN's backyard by his pool:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/fs2.jpg)

Well, if I sent the sunken treasure information to the FBI it would be posted somewhere on the Internet already lol.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

paraphrasing....

just the highlights of Oceanexplorers posts

Remember, the Dateline footage was taken over our shoulders by filming the ROV monitor.  The footage is not the recorded ROV footage.
These 6 screen captures were sent to the FBI. (nothing else)
I was shocked to see them posted.
99.9% certainty
Dave very reasonably requested them from me. 
I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't.
Recovered samples sent for forensic analysis.
#1 ranked priority target
hours of footage were of other dives on other targets.  None were of any relevance
NO mention of what was in the 1st target what-so-ever, and rightly so...
but, all that he doesn't say speaks volumes.
Then he goes on to add:


To clarify the thumb down issue:

-One thumb up was to indicate human remains

-There was no set signal pre-dive for anything but the above scenarios.
 
By Tim's own admission, His signal indicated an inconclusive observation referring to the object said by some to be a skull, a hardened sponge by others...
What you can't see is a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility.
The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up .
And HE feels the need to justify this...

Kyle, no questions here, just patience. (minor ability to read betwixt the lines) TY

this being a newly posting monkey is hard work... I probably did this wrong as well

p.s. Kyle_ I have a daughter named... Kyle