Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/KingKongJoran3.gif)

RESERVED FOR ROBOTS!!!

Hi Monkey's,
  I was just wondering something.Does the ship seen on the Aru-bay video and the picture of this helicopter have anything at all in common?

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=profile;u=3707;sa=showPosts

I had one other comment/question I wanted to post on the way out the door to do errands but wanted monkey thought on this.

I do so wish that Patrick had asked Joran why he threw away his shoes.  Here you have someone walking home on a rock scrabble island full of cacti in the DARK no less so what does he do?  He removes his shoes and tosses them into some drainage area.

What could have been so urgent he could not even finish his walk home in those shoes?  Now Joran is back in denial mode and will say he left them on the beach again but I so wish Patrick had asked him why he threw them away before he reverted back to his I am a tremendous liar mode.

What could have been on those shoes that required him to toss them?  He didn't say he lost them in the surf or muck but that on the way home, he purposely removed them.

Wet shoes dry, I know from experience especially tennis shoes even leather ones.  Vomit?  Could say Natalee threw up on him, poor Joran.  Vomit with GHB?  He could say he had not idea she had given herself such a drug.

Blood is the only thing I can think of that would be so bad he would not want to even finish walking home wearing those shoes.  Blood and Natalee's blood is the only one thing I can come up with that would require the immediate removal of the shoes, fear of being seen or caught with that on them and must have been showing for him to be desperate enough to walk home barefoot if that happened.

Even if it never happened and Paulus took him home, it would have been telling to hear his explanation for why he couldn't keep those shoes even long enough to get home in them.

.

A lawyer and his son whose hobby is criminal justice/how to get away with crimes would know not to track that around or have the shoes found later.

Just saying again. . . .

Off on errands but no matter what I am doing, my mind always wanders back to what happened to Natalee.

.

Oh I forgot lol,
   Does anyone know if the average Joe would be able to get close enough to the helicopter posted to video tape it? Never been there so wouldn't know.Kept in a hanger?Launch pad? I don't know,do you?Thanks.. :2notworthy:

We need to get this right:

No matter what Mos says Joran is no longer a suspect.

Joran was released as a suspect in December and can not be watched, listened to, or surveiled.

Until Joran is rearrested under suspision of a crime, he can not legally be a suspect.

Joran can not be rearrested until physical evidence or a verifiable witness can be found.

Joran is free of judicial suspision and is in no way a legal suspect.

Joran has not been charged with a crime and there is not and may never be a trial date.

The only effect on Joran is that he is a "persona non grata"


I dont agree with it but thats how it is, under their system.

yes there are so many things patrick could have asked.

also why joran didn't call ambulance or just dropped her of in front of the emergency entrance at the hospital.
why dump her in the ocean? joran doesn't explain that to patrick.
(of course it is obvious why)

peter r. said that they decided not the stay in contact with patrick while he was driving.
not to make joran suspicous that patrick was spoken to while talking to joran.
remember patrick is not a professional interrogator / spy.
but he did prety good. i still want to see the 20 hours.

Thought you monkeys might like to see this:


State of the timeshare industry in Aruba — A call for research Authors: Hahm, Jeeyeon; Lasten, Earney; Upchurch, Randall S; Peterson, Ryan

Source: Journal of Retail and Leisure Property, Volume 6, Number 3, July 2007 , pp. 221-229(9)

Publisher: Palgrave Macmillan
 
Abstract:

This case study is based on secondary data gathered concerning the state of the timeshare industry in Aruba. The major findings of this study indicate that there is a strong and growing consumer interest in timeshare ownership as a viable recreational alternative. This interest suggests that considerable empirical research is needed to understand the factors associated with sustaining the financial and economic impacts of the timeshare industry upon Aruba's economy.Journal of Retail and Leisure Property (2007) 6, 221-229. doi:10.1057/palgrave.rlp.5100066
Document Type: Research article

DOI: 10.1057/palgrave.rlp.5100066



I haven't looked at the source document yet to see what this is all about, but when I can I will. A

 "call for papers" realting to the state of the Aruban timeshare industry.....hmmmm interesting research topic!

 ::MonkeyEek::

Yeah, and why would Daury/Daddy say Joran what have YOU done if she just died with no evidence of violence?

Wouldn't Darury/Daddy instead ask what happened?  Not what Joran had DONE?

.

Well, I am sure not being critical of Patrick, either.  He did a great job and bet we all have questions we wished he had asked for us but under the circumstances, he handled it just right to get the information out of an already paranoid Joran.

I agree, Anna.  Patrick is totally a hero.  I bet he has questions he wished he had asked too.

For those that missed it yesterday - click on play   ::MonkeyHaHa::

http://llnw.jibjab.com/content/player.swf?content_url=http://www.jibjab.com/sendables/api/remote/gJV7RXtucHG09M0FjC93b39k.xml

One of the authors has an interesting website that has a survey about Aruba's parks, oh and low and behold he used to work for guess who????

http://earneylasten.com/


EXPERIENCE


Strategic Analyst Manager 2004-2005
Aruba Tourism Authority, Oranjestad, Aruba
Responsible for International Marketing Consultancy


Information System Manager 1997-2004
Aruba Tourism Authority, Oranjestad, Aruba
Responsible for network, web design, and other technology projects


Public Relations/Data Processor 1989-1996
Aruba Tourism Authority, Oranjestad, Aruba
Participated in tourism trade shows, global meetings


Accountant 1986-1989
Lasten Accounting Services, N.V., Oranjestad, Aruba
Worked with overall accounting activities


Food Service Manager 1985-1986
Alken Exploitatie N.V., Oranjestad, Aruba
Worked with overall management activities

Contact info - why are they all tied to Florida?

In United States Home
Earney F. Lasten
8775 Sartori Street #203

Orlando, FL 32829

What i never could figure out is why he started this story about the shoes in the first place. Leaving his shoes at the beach or dumping them in a sewer or whatever only makes him look suspicious. Why did he not just get ridd of the shoes and simply not mention em to anyone. What's the big deal with these shoes. There is also the size 14 versus size 10 issue. It would have been so much easier just not to mention the shoes. Also if there was blood on his shoes that wouldn t that be on his clothes to? Cant imagine he walked home naked

I also need to add:

The Kalpoes were released as suspects and cleared of all suspision in December

The Police authorities are forbidden from requestioning Joran or his many friends without a judges approval

The investigation can only proceed if new evidence is found, until that time there is no investigation.

Thanks, Klaas!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

*wipes tea off computerscreen*

I also wonder about the shoes and the black eye.

But what would you do if you were somewere and someone got very sick?
Maybe panic and call some one else?
But wat does the person you call normally do than? My friends and family would say: stay were you are, we call an ambulance. I think every normal person would do so.

I don not understand.

Why did this not happen?

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: Klaas, loved ittttttt!

Klaas, that may be the best Anita has ever looked right there.

Hysterical the second time around, yessiree. ::MonkeyLaugh::

I think that's from her ISA photo and she really looks nothing like that.  I was sorry I chose that head when I put together the jibjab, LOL  ::MonkeyHaHa::

The initial story is what I believe to be true. Remember that first night Paul Van Der Sloot told a group of people he picked Joran up at 4AM. Then Joran said it was Deepak,then he walked home and then it was Satish.

First they were looking for one shoe a size 14 because the other had mud or blood on it,then a pair of Shoes size 14 which they announced to the World..If he does where size 10.5 then its just another reason to haul in everyone that was involved in the Investigation because they are lying. Why lie to everyone for Months about his shoes? He can't wear both shoes sizes,so someone is lying!

If they are lying about the shoes then they are lying about other things as well,we could put quite a list together for that! If they really wanted to solve this case it could be done very easily! I think it was already solved within the first two weeks.IMO

I have to agree with Buckshot's terrific post in the last thread. Nice Post Buckshot!!!

In my heart of hearts I believe Joran will have to be dealt with in another fashion. The criminal justice system is not for Joran. He would continue to make a total mockery out of it with his corrupt father and crooked mother. Also, in my opinion, the case is too screwed up for an idiot like Hans Mos to arrive 2 years later and reel it all in. That will not happen. The people before him made sure of that. Even if Mos was on the up and up, he does not have the balls it takes to take down everyone. Without the "house of cards", it does not really matter. The stragglers will get away. We all know who the stragglers are.

I have held out hope that the case would be prosecuted and even to this day I still have a determination to justice served one way or the other. Justice is not always wrapped up nice and tight with a pretty bow and delivered by FTD. It's a down and dirty business that only some truly recognize and appreciate - i.e. Godfather Peter R. He knew what it took to bring in that wretched human debris. Godfather Peter R hand delivered Joran van der Sloot and Mos said "no thank you"...that should tell you a lot right there.

The whole of Aruba is bankrupt. Not just segments of it. That is why you see no outrage from anyone on Aruba. It takes time to get to that low level. Like decades. Aruba didn't just arrive where they are through a magic port-hole. No one was tele-ported through the ages like those on Aruba in recorded history.

We have all been following the case very intently for almost three years (pat yourselves on the back, Justice means something important to you and you're a good person to stand up for someone you most likely do not know) and we are no closer to seeing Joran behind bars than we were on day one. That's repulsive and challenges my belief system. AND I DON'T LIKE IT.

I would love to see one person stand up and do the right thing. One person beside Patrick. Someone with a set of nuts to slam the door on Paulus and Joran. It shouldn't be that hard to find someone in a position of Authority to do what's right.

Sure, we know a lot more than we did and we have seen it all. But there is one thing we have not seen or are likely to see, and that's Joran van der Sloot tried and convicted.

I'm going to pray extra hard tonight that Joran gets "dealt with".

Such talent!!!!I'd like to wipe that **TA-DA** finished look right off their faces though... :ncool: Could you try one with Yoran ::MonkeyHaHa:: and Anita crying,Polly sweating,brothers hanging their head in shame?

******* do you know the date when they were looking for it and where they found the bloody/muddy shoe?

In United States Home
Earney F. Lasten
8775 Sartori Street #203

Orlando, FL 32829

Mobile Phone: 407-484-3237
Email: me@earneylasten.com

In Aruba
University of Aruba

Universiteit van Aruba
Irausquinplein 4
Oranjestad
Aruba

Phone: 5823901
Fax: 5884422
 
 
University

Rosen College of Hospitality Management
9907 Universal Blvd
Orlando, Florida 32819

Email: elasten@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu

 
It looks like he has an affiliation with Rosen and UoA, interesting that he left ATA in 2005, I wonder exactly when. He is not on the list of profs at Rosen:

http://www.hospitality.ucf.edu/faculty.html

Looks like he might be an adjunct at the University of Central Florida, teaching tourism.

Post of the day, darlin'.  JMHO

In the beginning of the case they were looking for one shoe only. They had another shoe with mud or blood on it,I forget which one it was. However when they did the pond search  in July,Dompig announced to everyone it was a pair of shoes they were looking for,so I did a double take and many others did at RWV as well. We never heard anything from the initial reports until the search at the Pond.

Somewhere deep in the archives you will see the initial reports of looking for one shoe,I am positive of that! They were trying to find the missing shoe is what we were told in the beginning.

i think there is a good chance that if after the september 2009 aruba elections the AVP gets in the government and the MEP looses there will be whistle blowers and of scandals of the previous government (current Oduber) will come out.
or crown witnesess who testify to save their asses about other scandals.
still now there are court cases against officials from before 2001 (AVP).

in the meantime peter r., beth en bram mosko will keep the pressure on.
and the pressure will get higher when peter r. next broadcast comes out.

also the dutch political party bringing up the corruption (PVV) is bound to win in an next dutch election.
that election might be soon. that also puts pressure on aruba.

and the antilles (though specifically aruba) will be a lot in the news because of the upcoming changes regarding their status in the kingdom decemer 2008.

so a lot of factor at play. only to bring these together at the right time.

that's how i see things. and i don't think i am the only one.
it only the pace it goes is frustrating, but the ball is unstoppable i think.

mos is not important, he will be gone in 2009 anyway. he is playing a delaying game i think.
nobody wants to be there when the shit hits the fan.

caesu, there's also a lot of crime in holland that is related to antilles' youths, no?

Other than the Holiday Inn fabrication ... I believe that each of Joran's accounts regarding how he got home that fateful morning as well as the insertion of the missing shoes has everything to do with implicating Deepak/Satish as being the last person/s alone with Natalee Holloway.

If Deepak or Satish admitted to picking up Joran at the beach they would be furthering Joran's agenda of implicating themselves in what happened to Natalee Holloway.  However ... if they maintain that they only dropped Natalee and Joran off at the Marriot Beach ... then they are implicating Joran as the last person with Natalee.

In my opinion, when you consider the gardener's observation at 2:30 AM on the morning that Natalee disappearance ... Joran, Deepak and Satish are all lying.   

Janet

+++++++++++++++++


"I WALKED HOME".
Joran is implying that Deepak/Satish returned to beach after he  contacted Deepak and stated he was in the process of walking home after leaving Natalee at the beach sleeping.


"DEEPAK AND SATISH DROPPED ME OFF AT HOME AND LEFT WITH NATALEE".
Joran is implying that Deepak and Satish were the last persons observed with the missing 18 year old American citizen.


"DEEPAK PICKED ME UP AT THE BEACH AND THEN RETURNED TO LOOK FOR MY SHOES."
Joran is implying that Deepak could have encountered Natalee Holloway at the Marriot Beach where she had been left alone a short time previous


"SATISH PICKED ME UP AT THE BEACH AND THEN RETURNED TO LOOK FOR MY SHOES."
Joran is implying that Satish could have encountered Natalee Holloway at the Marriot Beach where she had been left alone a short time previous


+++++++++++++

THE GARDENER

Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
July 26, 2005

MANSUR: Because they were trying to hide their faces at that the hour, because we have to remember that the two Kalpoe brothers and Joran held on to the statement that they dropped Joran off at the beach and then went home. But here we have someone that says categorically that they did not go home, they were in the car with Joran. Joran was sitting in the driver`s seat.


Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
August 17, 2005

JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, "DIARIO": I don`t know what`s happening, but the gardener, the witness, did stand by his story. He did confirm in front of the judge, in front of the defense attorneys, in front of the suspects, that he recognized, and he even recognized two of the three suspects that were there. He hasn`t changed his story one bit


Beth Twitty
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
February 23, 2006

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ... Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.

The date on wich they found the shoe and when they searched for it interests me beacuse he always as far as i know stuck to the leaving shoes on the beach story. What would be the point if the police had one of the shoes in their posession. Also in his june 9th statement he doesn t really know if he wore white shoes or creme coloured boots. Then on june 14th he has a brain wave (must have hurt) and says he wore kswiss white and blue coloured size 14 and bought in the USA. I d really like to know where the police found the shoe and when.

caesu, thanks for your opinion and to you too Elaine.

Personally, I have seen enough of small island politics to last a lifetime. What happens if the MEP does not lose? They won the last election even with all this going on. What then? kick it down the road for four more years? I agree, the next election is a make or break for the MEP and Aruba. But the AVP is hardly any better.

When the MEP was running against the AVP the last time they accused the AVP of being corrupt... imagine that!!!

Could any government be more corrupt than that of the MEP? wait don't answer that. LOL

The Whole of Aruba is less than 100,ooo people. Somewhere between 70k and 100k. No real stats to confirm this I'm afraid. And with the government jobs that skyrocketed, it's hard to imagine that the AVP would get enough votes, including from those likely to lose their jobs should the AVP take over.

So, right now, even though Aruba is in the can, the MEP still holds the voting base.

It can be reasonably argued that the MEP has gone after their political opponents and their families pretty harshly over the last four years... and I'm sure the MEP would say it is payback for the AVP going after the MEP when they lost power the last time.

it's a circle. And one not likely to change. 

I think I remember Beth saying that they found the one shoe in Joran's closet
and it had blood on it.

Early in the case Tito Lacle a reporter said during his interview with Greta that his sources tell him that authorities are looking for a shoe that Joran lost, possibly in the pond area, and that Joran tried to buy another one to match the shoe he lost. Greta commented that it would have been difficult for Joran to walk home the night of Natalee's disappearance with only one shoe

She most definetly said that and Beth added she never knew if they tested it or not or any results.

******* magnolia thx for your answers. I d still like to know a date if anyone has one. Shoe in closet size 14....mmm
JVDS has size 10.5 You dont suppose it could be someone elses shoe do you?

Didn't someone claim Yoran passed their house covered in mud from waist down in the wee hours of the morning?Shoe stuck in the mud?

Sorry, but I am always behind...(work is a bear)....but can someone tell me the significance of this person?  I'm just curious.  TIA

Robert Jensen Show with Beth Holloway - Peter R de Vries - Patrick van der Eem - Bram Moszkowicz

-Beth: Patrick is a great man, a great father, he's my hero
-Patrick talking about how he wanted to frame Joran, that was his only goal
-Patrick says he has a criminal past but changed drastically after he was about 21 years old, he started selling heroin at the age of 15, he's been in jail twice, drugsrelated
-Patrick talking again about meeting Joran for the first time in the Dutch casino and working towards the confession tapes, getting Joran to trust him
-Patrick says Joran told him he didn't respect his parents, didn't listen to them but that's nothing special for a 20-year old

No new info so far.

Beth was just sitting there the hold time, Robert and Patrick only spoke Dutch.

*commercial break*

This is an interesting bit of info I don't recall hearing about before. Sure hope ALE followed up on this.......
 
>>>>SNIP

Three weeks ago, a tourist from North Carolina called me to ask me how to get in touch with police. She and her husband had been out exploring the island, and they came across a sneaker.

They knew investigators were looking for a pair of sneakers that belonged to van der Sloot. And, they knew the sneaker they spotted probably was just something someone left behind, but they couldn't let it go. She wanted to let police know about it.

http://tinyurl.com/3bkhpb

Self-edit: whole

The date on wich they found the shoe and when they searched for it interests me beacuse he always as far as i know stuck to the leaving shoes on the beach story. What would be the point if the police had one of the shoes in their posession. Also in his june 9th statement he doesn t really know if he wore white shoes or creme coloured boots. Then on june 14th he has a brain wave (must have hurt) and says he wore kswiss white and blue coloured size 14 and bought in the USA. I d really like to know where the police found the shoe and when.
[/quote]
=====================================================================

They found the shoe the day they had the search warrant to search the vd/Sloot
residence and only searched Joran's quarters.

I have never seen a credible report that said that. Truth is the Gardner witness messes up most theories,as it was only a hour after C&C. He says that Joran was in the drivers seat,Deepak in the front and someone in the back leaned the other way across the seat. My question is where was Natalee? Was the person in back covering her or was she somewhere else?

I know when they searched the Pond area they would not allow the Family to be there. So much mis-information it's hard to tell what is true. Dompig wanted everyone to be on the lookout for these pair of K-Swiss shoes and thought they may find them in the Pond.
Many people's theories center around the FH area and the 500 yards to the Raquet Club/Pond area seen here.

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/pond.jpg)

Keep your money diversified.They probably all have money in different countries due to the laundry everyone on Aruba does.Would love to know in which countries the VDS family has Bank Accounts and which banks????Who those banks are tied to and why???Would be telling i think.May have already been gone over but just a thought.What Businesses do the VDS family own and which countries.Yes.Aunts,Uncles,Parents,grandparents.Follow the money it leads somewhere.....Just thoughts...Beautiful sunny day in Seattle ::MonkeyDance::


Keepthefaith

He seems like is wanting to say:"someone stole my shoes so if you find them and find DNA on them, they stole them and then killed NH."  The ALE already reported finding one shoe at JVs home early in the case with blood, said it was JVs, etc.  They were not going to let that slip until they saw that the other shoe might be found and have DNA on it as well and could be found and turned over to FBI, etc.  They get rid of the one shoe and now Joran can say both his shoes are missing and in case one is found someone used them both and threw them away separately.  He has it "covered" since the ALE friends are disappearing evidence.  They took a ball bat out of that apartment as well.  Have not head mention of it since.  Some were trying to do their job, no knowing Vandderstratten and his flunkies were destroying evidence as fast as it was produced. Some of the evidence most likely is hidden and will be used over Joran and Palus and Vanderstrattens head as long as they live (and then some) if people who are using the justice system and ALE to further their criminal activities have an say over it.  Posner has videos and his bosses have them by now.  They will use this, at least, over Aruba's head until they clean out that nest of vipers so they can get fresh waters of Truth flowing into Aruba.  Those thugs certainly have bittered the waters of Aruba.  They need flushing out.  That little place has no business being an independent country, non of them do if they cannot control their LE and justice system.  It, at that size is too easy to corrupt.     Jack b

This is exactly what I recall. There have been various reports though. One at RWV stated that the sneaker found in Jorans closet had mud on it. But what I remember is that ALE found one sneaker with a spot of blood on it in Jorans closet. Never did hear anything about DNA testing yhat might have been done.

++++++++++++++

Natalee Holloway Update: Missing Shoe
I've been informed that at a press conference today investigators have asked anyone that may have information as regards a sneaker - K-SWISS (White and Blue) size 14 possibly seen or found near the Marriott or the Fisherman's Hut area to please contact the Police.
Earlier reports have suggested that a search at the home of Joran Va der Sloot turned up a shoe which may have been covered with mud, or muck. The shoe had no match. The last bit of information hasn't been independently confirmed.
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/07/natalee_hollowa_91.html


On 12-6 BETH told “FoxNews” that early in the investigation, the family was told by the ARUBAN police investigators that blood was found inside a 5-29/30-worn “K-Swiss” brand, size 14, tennis shoe that is predominantly white with some blue trim that belongs to Principal Suspect J. SLOOT that was taken into evidence (the other 5-29/30-worn “K-Swiss” brand, size 14 tennis shoe has--according to the ARUBAN police authorities--has never been found). The ARUBAN police investigators told the family that the found blood inside the tennis shoe taken into evidence would be forensically tested, but, to date, BETH said she does not recall for sure if the ARUBAN police investigators have ever reported about the results of any blood tests, nor have the DUTCH nor the ARUBANS even said if the blood tests have ever been completed on the shoe.

http://members.aol.com/worldJOURNIER/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html

But it wouldn't be Joran acting alone trying to frame someone else,because they knew darn well what size she he wears. As of right now they are caught in this lie as well.

Robert Jensen Show with Beth Holloway - Peter R de Vries - Patrick van der Eem - Bram Moszkowicz - Part 2

-Joran texted Patrick even after the confession tapes, Joran texted: "you're even sicker than I am"
-Patrick still has 126 text-messages left on his cell that Joran sent him, about 10 of them after the PRDV-show
-Patrick gives Robert his cellphone, Robert shows one of the messages, it was about drugs
-Robert asks, "can I call Joran?"
-Robert calls Joran, Joran answers but that's all he says, Patrick says Joran usually doesn't answer the phone, lets it go to voicemail
-Patrick doesn't know where Joran is, is not even interested in knowing where he is
-Robert applauding Beth for staying strong throughout this whole time
-enter Peter
-Beth is saying that she always felt that Peter had to be the one that could help her, and he did
-Robert asks what Peter thinks is the most important thing in the tapes: Peter says it's when Joran imitates Natalee's shaking, he did that more than once, in more than one recording,
Peter says that that was really real, that was not a lie
-Peter says Patrick's past is not important at all, what's important is what Joran said
-enter Bram
-Bram is here to talk to Beth after the show, he will be back on the show next week
-Patrick calls Beth a supermom

So no new info, no new developments.

Thanks Jo-An

  FRAMING is not a word, I believe Patrick had in mind for Joran.  Tricking him into a confession of truth as to what happened would be what, in my estimation he was doing.  Whoever used the word FRAMING is either using the wrong word or they are trying to FRAME Patrick.     Jack blue

Bram Moszkowicz will be in the Jensen show next week again. He is going to be Mrs. Holloways laywer in the emotional damage.  ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

Oooow Rene Gielen. ::MonkeyCool::

There was also a woman in North Carolina who started talking about Joran's mother saying NH hit her head and drowned and later recanted saying this.  If it is the same woman.  Arrest her.        jack b

You're probably right! English is not my 1st language and I was listening, translating and typing all at the same time!!  ::MonkeyWink::

perhaps more like putting him in the frame...gotta be one those translation problems!

Thanx all for answering my shoe questions this is what i wanted to know:
On 12-6 BETH told “FoxNews” that early in the investigation, the family was told by the ARUBAN police investigators that blood was found inside a 5-29/30-worn “K-Swiss” brand, size 14, tennis shoe that is predominantly white with some blue trim that belongs to Principal Suspect J. SLOOT that was taken into evidence

On jorans june 9th statement he doesnt know if he wore white shoes or creme boots

on june 12th see above beth tells fox about kswiss etc

on june 14th joran states:"I had left a pair of white and blue shoes of the make "K-Swiss", size "14" on the beach"

what's the point of his statement if they found one of the shoes in his home??

 ::MonkeyConfused:: ther's something weird about this shoe story

very good to watch patrick.

especially about how the tabloids are discrediting him.
but that doesn't bother him much. he expected that.

nice guy patrick. i really believe that.

also at the end when robert said to beth, nice to sit here with your hero's
patrick said and beth is a supermom.

now bram mosko is on pauw/witteman.

Thanks caesu, Jo-An, and JE. Hope I didn't miss anyone. ::MonkeyWink::

Going on about the shoes (srry all) Lets assume he lost a shoe during whatever activity. Would he be so stupid as to take the one he has left, including the eventual forensic traces, home and put it in a closet for the police to find??

I second that motion.It is very gracious of you to post this information.Others have thanked you but i haven't.So thank you for your posts and time.


Keepthefaith

rob i didn't contribute to the translations i was busy with shoes LOL
all credit goes to Ceasu and Jo-An

duly noted JE.

I know others feel the same way, but it's a pleasure to have you all here with us and your help is immeasurable. Thank you again to the Dutch posters.

it's my pleasure to know you all...

And

Hi Dayhiker, my brother!!! ^5

You're very welcome!

Very stupid and that doesn't make sense either,his father would have made sure those shoes were nowhere near that house...Everyone knows you can't buy just one shoe! Which leads me to the next question..Why would Freddy feel obligated or volunteer to buy him a new pair of shoes?

A big smoochie to y'all for recapping the shows we can't see over here.  I'm glad Beth is out there stirring the pot.  And she looks great doing it. 

I know which you are thinking about, the two sound different to me. The people you mention were supposedly friends/acquaintances of the sloots. PVDS allegedly called him and told him the story of Natalee drowning.......hmmmm one early overt attempt to establish a cover-up of what really happened.

(http://bestsmileys.com/oneofakind/1.gif)

We've been all over this one!  There is no good reason for Freddy to offer to buy Joran new shoes unless the shoes that were lost were actually Freddy's.  Freddy is too shrimpy looking to have size 14 feet even in his wildest dreams!

(I love that horse)

Yea, yea.

I read where the headmaster of his school mentioned that he said NH hit her head swimming and drowned.

I think it was World Journier's posts.


CAPS, do you own a cat?


I must feed the credit cards.

Fin

Is that Shango for "I'm going to order Chinese tonight?" ::MonkeyCool::

Plus Beth has in her notes about a bloody shoe.I hope Beth writes another book and have it be ALL about aruba and all the run arounds and lies her and the family were told.I also hope she names names of all the ones who dicked them around....start with that total frizzy haired,corupted,lizard skinned,lie regugitating,sun dried skanky *ITCH renHO.I want Chavez to steal that witch from aruba.
 :smt091

Karma, I agree with ya totally.

From Diario online today -

Political cartoon "Banana Republic Cu Cum Laude!!"

http://news.diario-aruba.com//images/stories/2008N/maart/3/car.jpg

Screen capture from 3-4-2008 show. At least that's how Carpe has it dated.

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/BethHolloway2.jpg)

genoeg is genoeg - enough is enough

Poor Beth, she was crying here.

Pauw & Witteman Show - Bram Moszkowicz is one of 3 guests

-Short clip of Beth talking about filing criminal and civil lawsuit against Joran (just a very short introduction video, recorded in Bram's office)
-(other guests... yaddayaddayadda... blahblahblah... ticktock ticktock...)
-a middleman contacted Bram on Beth's behalf, to investigate whether they can file a civil lawsuit
-Beth on tape, wants that Joran will be prosecuted, wants Joran behing bars, if that doesn't happen then civil action, there may be other young females on his path
-Bram says he's investigating civil suit: 85-90% chance that he will do it
-he needs to see if he has a true chance to win, Beth couldn't handle it if even the civil suit should be lost
-he says what Joran did in the tapes was confess, even if some people (OM Aruba) say he didn't, there's no doubt about it
-civil suit will be: 1)claim for shock damage 2)claim because of Joran's constant lying he was enabling others to put the blame on Beth (as in Beth was a "suspect" for a while)
-shock damage has to be confirmed by a psychiatrist, he has to determine that Beth suffered psychological damage
-What else do they want in Aruba? They have all they need!, says Bram
-They didn't have enough evidence without the confession tapes, and now even with the confession tapes they don't have enough evidence, Bram says that is simply unbelievable
-Beth on tape: imitating seizure, that's the part that's most difficult to watch
-Bram says he's extra motivated to do this case, he really feels for Beth
-Bram will file a complaint should the case be closed again in Aruba and Joran doesn't get arrested
-Bram promised Beth he will let her know whether he will file the civil suit within 2 weeks

My eyes and ears are spinning, this was a very hard conversation to follow even in Dutch, all these legal terms...

I'm off to bed now!!

Good Night Jo-An and thank you for the summaries.

Thanks Jo-An..It is much Appreciated!

Bram sounds like da Man! All we need now is a Hero to step up in that Dutch Govt!  ::MonkeyWink::

That being the case then, Under Dutch law shouldn't Beth and her attorney be given full access to the investgative records and police reports?

Further, does this not make Joran a "public" (pubic) figure by his own doing and subject to full public scrutiny?

Sorry for the rant but I do feel better now.
 ::MonkeyWink::

thanks Jo-An! ::MonkeyDance::

They didn't have enough evidence without the confession tapes, and now even with the confession tapes they don't have enough evidence, Bram says that is simply unbelievable

correction that has to be did

JE,

I guess we each have our theories as to what was up with the shoes.  I think they could have served a variety of things for Joran.

For one, he could go back Monday evening when he walked the route they supposedly drove in the beach area (what was he looking for?  Evidence, something they threw out the window or what?) and planted shoes at the Fisherman's Huts to "prove" his beach story was true.  He had just come from the Racket Club where he could have found/stolen the shoes.  Right brand, wrong size but who's to know that?

Then after planting the shoes to "prove" his FHut story, he says he asked first Deepak then Satish to go back and get his shoes.  Claims they both agreed to do so.  This means he told them that night and that would also be telling them that Natalee was alone on the beach.  Meaning the Kalpoes were in fact the last to be with her and not Joran. 

So we have the shoes proving Joran was at the beach when he may or may not have been and also that the Kalpoes went back for the shoes meaning they were "really" the last with Natalee instead of Joran.

It was a Dutch juvenile interrogator who determined Joran was in jail wearing not a Size 14 shoe at all but a 10.5.  So did Joran find/steal size 14's to use for his ruse.  Poster Adoron came up with that theory that perhaps Joran "found" a pair, right brand wrong size at Racketclub.

So in the beginning the shoes served two functions for Joran.  Placed him at the FHuts and implicated Kalpoes as last with Natalee.

Now he seems to have had a change of heart concerning the Kalpoes being framed as last to be with Natalee.  So he has himself disposing of the shoes on the way home.

Evidently he is now hoping the Kalpoes win their suit and are generous.

But why bring them up again to Patrick?  Since no one found the shoes on the beach and he was not able to prove the Kalpoes went back for them placing them last with Natalee, why did he start over again with the shoes to Patrick?

Here is an article Jossy wrote on the shoes and the changing size:


Case of Natalee: report shows formal deceit
Joran van der Sloot’s feet grow and shrink almost 4 sizes from one day to the otherDIARIO Aruba
05/08/2006



ORANJESTAD (AAN) --- Those of a little advanced or respectable age can still remember the time where there was an alcoholic beverage that was called ‘foot sweller’.

This alcoholic beverage, it was said, that those who drank too much of it, their feet swelled and because of this they called the drink ‘foot sweller’, but who can believe that in the year 2005 there are people in Aruba whose feet really swell or grow almost 4 sizes from one day to the other?

This was the case of the suspect Joran van der Sloot, who is currently peacefully studying in Holland and Aruba itself is stuck with the case of Natalee, and in the US they are trying in every way to organize and implement all sorts of boycotts and acts that could harm Aruba in the wide sense of the word.



This is not an attempt to cast guilt on Joran van der Sloot in the case of Natalee, but the fact is that the majority of people in the community is very angry in regards to the case of Natalee causing a negative impact on the economic situation, the image of the people of Aruba and surely, for the island’s tourism.


Too many changing declarations, formal deceit by the suspects and the very strange way in which the authorities, who have to be competent, have proceeded have today stuck Aruba in a very bad situation in regards to Natalee’s case and those who know the truth remain quiet believing that in this way, they can evade guilt of any involvement or any violation of the law.

From the copies of different police reports, today readers themselves can read how Joran van der Sloot, who until today for inexplicable reasons ‘supposedly’ left his expensive brand name running shoes at the beach on the night he was with Natalee, according to the version he gave police.

Police came up with the matter of the running shoes or it was Joran himself who started talking about the running shoes of an expensive brand name, size 14? From the police report of June 14, 2005, readers can read how Joran himself declared that he took off his size 14 running shoes and left them on the beach.

On June 29, 2005, he again repeated to police that he left his size 14 running shoes on the beach. The strange thing is that on August 2, 2005, after so many interrogations had already taken place, Joran van der Sloot in a car heading back to KIA, told a Dutch police officer who came to Aruba especially to interrogate the suspects, that Joran had on some K-Swiss running shoes that he borrowed from a fellow prisoner.

At no moment did the Dutch police officer ask Joran something, it was Joran himself who started talking with the police officer, as can been seen from the police report.

Now, the question is: was Joran brought from the first day to KIA shoeless and had no shoes to wear that it was a fellow prisoner who had to lend Joran a pair of running shoes?

Van der Sloot’s parents couldn’t bring shoes for Joran to wear, and someone from the prison had to lend him some shoes, and to top it all off they were K-Swiss brand?

By the way, at KIA they have to register, as in the majority of prisons around the world, what shoes and other belongings each person comes in with, yes or no? On August 8, 2005, the same Dutch police officer asked Joran to take off his shoe, which was a K-Swiss brand running shoe.

Joran asked to see his lawyer and wanted to find his lawyer’s support, but his lawyer didn’t even look at Joran and started to write (in local dialect, you deal with your problems!) After the Dutch police officer insisted, Joran took off the running shoe and handed it over across the table.

The police officer asked Joran how in the supposed day that he was with Natalee on the beach, he had size 14 K-Swiss running shoes, then how was the one that Joran put on the table size 10.5?

After Joran put his running shoe back on, the police pressed on the tip of the running shoes, and observed that the shoes were a good fit on Joran, and Joran didn’t react!

The matter of the size 14 K-Swiss running shoes is ‘too good to be true’. Was it the shark that Natalee supposedly wanted to see at the North shore that left with Joran van der Sloot’s size 14 running shoes?


// posted by Getagrip @ 5/10/2006 04:17:00 PM

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2006_05_07_archive.html


Until proven otherwise, I will have to go with Jossy on this.

I hope certain posters are not lurking as I have been told I have to eat a bug if I ever mention the shoes again and Robots is not here to do it for me this time!

.

This period on Aruba is known as the summer of "The Great Shoe Scare".  All shoes were suspect, none stepped forward.

Thanks ciskebab...

you know, the Sloots want Natalee on that beach for a reason and if she is ever found there will be some 'new' reason why Joran is not guilty.

I agree with Bram ~ unbelievable.

I hate to be so cynical, but at some point it almost seems as if Joran will say he was never on the beach with Natalee... and everyone will say WTF!!! ::MonkeyEek::

Dave Holloway's words support my theory ... my theory that contends that when Joran, Deepak and (?) realized that Natalee was most likely deceased ... left her hidden in the Mangrove bushes ... ran across the street to the Racquet Ball Club where Deepak had parked his vehicle.  A panicked discussion ensued.  Paulus was contacted.  The gardener made his observation.

Janet

+++++++++++

Dave Holloway
NANCY GRACE
August 1, 2005[

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/01/ng.01.html

DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S FATHER: Well, what they were doing, I think, was the pond that they drained, they feel like possibly he may have been cutting across the beach, back to the racquet club, and got stuck in the mud and lost his shoes.

That`s the only plausible explanation I could think of. The police have not told me specifically what the reasoning is, but, as you`re well aware, the gardener pinpointed them at the racquet club in her vehicle. So I think the shoes may have been lost, maybe cutting across the field from the beach area.

i found pauw/witteman with bram mosko exceptionally interesting.

it is late here now so i haven't got time to type much.

if there is no full transcript by tomorrow i will give it a try.
some words are really important to get translated correctly because it is all 'law-talk'.
he chooses his words very carefully of course. that shouldn't get lost in translation

bram mosko is 85-90% sure that he is going to take up to case.
his team is looking at it if the civil case has a chance of succeeding, because a victory for joran would be a disaster for beth. that just can't happen.
in two weeks time he is going to say if he is taking the case.
but he feels for beth he said at the end.
also a few clips of beth were taped while she was at bram mosko law office in amtsterdam.
(so i doubt she will go in pauw/witteman the coming days)

also if the OM drops the case he is going to sue the aruban OM. or protest it in some way. i don't know if it is actually called suing.

important thing is if the confession is as such that joran can be blamed for the shock caused to beth by not telling all these years what happened to her daughter.
he made a few strong points why the confession crucial.

for example he said. they did arrest joran before but they didn't have enough on him, but then they arrested him again and again they had to let him ago. they must have had reasons to arrest him twice.
so why is a confession not enough to get him arrested?? that was exactly what they needed?

there is a lot more. he made three seperate points but i can't think how to put it down right now, i don't want to confuse.

very much worth watching imo overall. i think even more now that we've got a good one with bram mosko.

tomorrow you can watch the show here:
http://pauwenwitteman.vara.nl/uitzending.php?id=318
and in a few hours already here:
http://www.uitzendinggemist.nl/index.php/search?serID=1426&sq=pauw+witteman
05-03-2008 (third from the top probably)

I wonder if they thought to link the homeless, chollars, drug runners, or fishermen to the disappearance?

It would be a simple thing to do.  However, some fishermen stepped forward to indicate they did not see J2K or Natalee on the beach.

I wonder just what their PVs, witness statements, or testimony before the judge stated?  What did they see that morning?  Who did they see on the beach?  Perhaps their were others that did not see J2K?

Were the fishermen together as a group (2 or 3)?  Or, did one person step forward and implicate others that morning? 

Is it the statement of a group?  Is it two or three statements of individuals, each with a different perspective? 

Who are the fishermen?  Are they still on the island?  Still alive?

My other question, what did J2K argue about before the judge, as told by Dompig?

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/pond.jpg)

THE POND - THE MUD (Continued)

Dave Holloway
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
February 23, 2006

COSBY: Dave, do you buy that, he couldn't go back to get his own sneakers because he was going home?

HOLLOWAY: No. You're not going to leave your sneakers on the beach, and you're not in that big of a hurry. So I don't buy that idea at all. If he got rid of his sneakers, it's two things. Either they were too muddy or he lost them somewhere in the mud or whatever, or they had blood on them.


Roy Tromp
CNN
August 2, 2005

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/LAW/08/01/aruba.missing/index.html

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) -- Aruban authorities investigating the disappearance of Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway are looking for a pair of size-14 tennis shoes that suspect Joran van der Sloot might have lost, a police official said.

"He says he might have lost a pair of sneakers on the beach the night Natalee disappeared," said lead police investigator Roy Tromp. "That's what he claims in one of his many statements."

Tromp said the 17-year-old suspect described the shoes as white and blue and brand new.

"He claimed he lost them in the area of Fisherman's Hut, but we [are] looking at other places, including the pond," he said.  

The pond was drained last week after a witness said he had seen Van der Sloot and two other named suspects -- brothers Satish and Deepak Kalpoe -- nearby. Authorities said Saturday they found nothing in the pond.

Beth Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
December 6, 2005

TWITTY: You know Greta now that you mention it I was looking through my journal and there was an update from an FBI official and also from our family liaison that in one of Joran Van der Sloot's tennis shoes there was blood. I had written that down. I wish that I had been able to obtain more information as to what happened to that one shoe if that was truly blood in his shoe. You know Greta like I said we are just so limited in any type of information we can get.

VAN SUSTEREN: : Are you suggesting that they did find one of the pair of shoes and that they seized that?

TWITTY: Yes, when I was looking back through my notes there was a date where we received this information either from the FBI or our family liaison that there was blood in Joran's tennis shoe.

Anna very elaborate wow thx a lot

Incriminating kalpoes could be a reason. But what would be the point. it would be his word against theirs unless they decided to get the shoes for him and not return em and the police would find em at their home.

It is strange that in his PV he asks deepak or satish after they drop him off to go get the shoes??????

Leaving the shoes there to prove he was at the beach could make sense but then why did they tell the HI story first. Surely he could not have expected them to be there when he changed his story days later.

And why bring it up again with Patrick? Im puzzeled here too.

I ve been searching for an article or anything that says the police found one of the shoes in his home but i cant find it if anyone has it plz let me know.

And about letting Kalpoes off the hook so they can go ahead with their claim and be "nice" to him would imply that he knew about being taped while in the car with patrick.

It is strange that what he says on tape is not enough for a conviction because it is all lies. But to Kalpoes lawyers it seems to prove that their clients are not guilty and can pursue their claim????

Thanks to all for the terrofic translations.  We understand it is difficult and English is not your first language.

I wonder what we should write to Hero Brinkman concerning.  I have had excellent responses to emails sent to several high ranking officials in this investigation and want to be very careful in contacting him to impress him as a serious inquirer.

Has someone already directed him to our own Corruption and Collusion Thread?  How about the Murder and Crime thread?  Those might be good places to start?

Why was Joran in the driver's seat when the gardener saw them in the car?

(Yes, a dumb question..humor me.)

I think Joran was implying the Kalpoes went back to get the shoes and found Natalee alone and they were last with her and did "something bad to her."  Instead of Joran.

If you read the transcripts of the HI, even Deepak at that time mentions shoes then takes it back.  Said he shot off his mouth about them to one someone then said he was talking about something else.  This is because they were not yet telling the FH story.

Evidently Joran, when questioned alone for the very first time was already telling the FHut story because ALE asked the Kalpoes about dropping him off at the beach while Kalpoes were still saying HI.  Another attempt by Joran to frame them and appear that he, Joran, was the only one telling the truth.

Joran had to have already told the ALE about the FH beach story for them to be asking the Kalpoes immediately about it.  It seems the minute the Kalpoes were out of sight, Joran was telling ALE FHut story instead of HI, hanging the K2 out to dry, he hoped.

I think the family and media were told things in the beginning that may or may not have always been true.  There was the spot of blood on Joran's shoe that was either never tested or was and it was determined to be Joran's own blood.

And the rumor also that he had a sizable cut on his left foot still when he was finally arrested.

Things like this I don't think we will ever know for a fact what happened, only what a particular individual said at the time. 

In other words, I am now convinced that ALE lied and lied deliberately to this family.  Not all of them but certainly some in a position to know better.  Or maybe they were overwhelmed themselves at the amount of information and incapable of keeping fact from rumor themselves.

Sorry way to run an investigation.

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/rudy1.jpg)

"The work of the Two Detectives(Castillo and Young) should be looked into seriously"..Dept of Justice Minister Rudy Croes..
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/thbarf.gif)

They should have sealed it and took it to our FBI, Aruba will toss it.

From RWV - press conference about shoe -



http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/07/natalee_hollowa_91.html

Judge Wit is on record, I think in that same article where he said Dompig and Karen Janssen never asked for a full search of the Sloot compound, that now it would take a confession from Joran.

Well, he has it now and that's still not enough.

Oh, right!  Joran only confessed to disposal of a corpse because he is fully and legally a coroner now!

In Aruba 17 yo punks can declare you are dead and dump you in the drink and it's a misdemeanor.

And Hans doesn't seem to like the latest drug reports?  I wonder if he read the one from our DOJ saying one in five used cocaine in Aruba.  Remove the elderly and children and that's a high percentage of adults.

He wants to know of what that is based?  Tsk, tsk, Hans that goes to methods and sources and we don't tell those.

.

My first guess would be they were taking turns with Natalee in the back seat,I doubt Deepak would let Joran drive so he was just sitting there temporarily. Second guess would be they saw lights from the gardners car coming and they all jumped in the Deepak's car,so they were not seen doing whatever outside of the vehicle. Third guess would be they were waiting for someone or killing time until whoever was done with Natalee if she was not in the vehicle.

If the Gardner is not lying,something Major was happening right when he went by them. If Natalee was safely somewhere else there would be no reason for them to be so paranoid when he drove by.IMO

Anna thx again for the explanation. Im gonna let the shoe story simmer for a while there's something i just cant put my finger on. Oh and BTW if they make you eat a bug for bringing it on again just give half of it to me LOL

Shoe speculation here -

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/01/ng.01.html

and


http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/29/ng.01.html

SAN ANTONIO, Venezuela, March 5 (Reuters) - Trade between Colombia and Venezuela was limited to bare necessities on Wednesday, with Venezuela only allowing in perishable goods as tensions remained high in the Andean region's worst diplomatic crisis in years.

Venezuela on Wednesday sent tanks to the Colombian border to protest a Colombian military raid that killed a rebel commander in Ecuadorean territory, sparking the outrage of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez who says the move could lead to war.

Analysts say continued border restrictions could worsen Venezuela's nagging shortages of basic groceries and add to inflation that is already the highest on the continent.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/idUKN0536287320080305


And don't forget that the U. S. backed Colombian army is far superior in every regard to anything Hugo or his buddies have.  It would be an unmitigated disaster for him should actual combat break out.  That's the last thing he wants.

.

Just speculating.

Maybe ... upon arriving at Deepak's parked vehicle after leaving an apparently deceased Natalee at the beach ... Joran, Deepak and (?) noticed the lights of the gardener's vehicle approaching and ... scrambled to get inside Deepak's vehicle ... seating was not a priority.

Janet

+++++++++


Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
July 27, 2005

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/10/ng.01.htm

JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, "DIARIO": Well, he spoke very clearly of what he saw. He left his home, a standard home, where he lives really. And he was on his way to a room that he has at the house that he works as a gardener because that room has air-conditioning and it was very hot. When he left his home, he had to pass on the dirt road close to that pond that`s being drained now. And there was a car parked smack in the middle of that road, so he had to pass it at a very slow pace, climbing a little mound, and brought him within a yard of view in sight of the other car.

And he claims to have seen Joran behind the wheel, one of the two Kalpoe brothers beside him and the other Kalpoe brother in the back. And when they saw him pass that close, Joran threw up his hands to hide his face, and the other two ducked on the seats.

Thx WhiskeyGirl too bad it doesn't say who the I as in "I ve been informed is" it would be great to have an article where it says police found it at sloots home. The first sloot home search was on june 15th

Would a press conference have been recorded?  Perhaps it was not in the English language? 

roflmfao, rudy has elevated the status of the psycho psychics to detective?  why does that not surprise me at all.  sounds like he inhaled some of his tooth powder this morning before going to work.
dennisintn

Maybe there was only one Swiss K in the Lost and Found at the Racquet Club was why Joran only had one shoe Size 14.

How hard is it to measure a kid's foot?

But I suppose first one would have to want to know and besides, it's easier to blame the American media for failure to perform at even the most minimal of universally accepted standards.

Things like that require bending over and stretching which interferes with the Frosted Flakes agenda.

moo

I thought this post would interest some of you..lol I would imagine that Johan grabbed this from one of the posters at Rene'e Gielens blog that she post's at... I seriously doubt SandraK is Astrid VR but the part about Lorenzo's GF may be true as Glenda refused to answer that question from HannieC  ::MonkeyWink::




(Translation)
The mother of Lorenzo, Astrid van Rijn, operates as a poster on a number of websites (as SandraK and Keywest). She said recently that she is on good footing with Robin Holloway, the wife of Dave Holloway. Of course, this is spicy, now that the former girlfriend of Lorenzo van Rijn withdrew his alibi on May 30, 2005

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2669.100

THE JOGGER

Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
August 23, 2005

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/23/ng.01.html

ANASTASIYA BOLTON, WBMA-TV: ... Also, the jogger, the latest witness that police are talking about -- this is supposedly the man who called police from a public phone several days after Natalee Holloway disappeared, saying that he saw the car with the Kalpoe brothers and Joran by the racquet club the night that she disappeared. Police are still looking for him. They`re not able to find him because the man, again, called from a public phone and did not leave his name -- Nancy.

GRACE: You know, that was a question we had last night, Jossy, as to why the Aruban police could not trace that phone call from a jogger, a jogger escaping the heat on the island of Aruba the night Natalee went missing. That`s the apparent explanation of why he was out jogging at that time of the night. Jossy, if this is true and he called from a public phone, true, police cannot trace who he is, but it would also give credence. Was that public phone near where Natalee Holloway disappeared?

JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, "DIARIO": That`s what I understand, that this jogger also saw the same car parked at the same spot by the racquet club. However, he did call from a public telephone, and I don`t know whether the police can trace it or not. But according to information I have, they cannot.

GRACE: Well, they already know it`s from a public phone. They know where it was. Take a listen to this.

<snipped>

... Jossy, I want to get everything I can from you that you know about this jogger. Could you just tell me, what night is it the jogger calls police about what he saw?

MANSUR: I think it was two or three nights after Natalee disappeared. I don`t know. I don`t have any of the answers to that. I don`t know any of the facts involved. I know that the police have put out a call for him. They`ve requested us to publish it, where we did publish a request for this man to come forward. And they`ve been on the radio and everywhere else, asking for this jogger to show up, to give his testimony.

I hate to be cynical too, but I feel like Joran could confess over and over and tell as many lies and say anything he wants. He seems to be immune from prosecution.

No one is immune from prosecution except maybe god i doubt that JVDS is god

Deepak Kalpoe attempts to get somebody to establish an alibi for him after the gardener testifies.

Janet

+++++++++++++++

Beth Twitty
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
February 23, 2007

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/23/lkl.01.html

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: I know one thing that Deepak Kalpoe did in August was, when the gardener came before the judge of instruction to give sworn testimony of witnessing those three suspects together in the Kalpoe brothers' car that night at the pond, across the street from the Marriott, it was in front of the prosecutor, in front of the defense, the judge of instruction, Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, Joran Van Der Sloot.

Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.

Yup,He said that after they gave there press conference on TV and Radio,Probably so people would take them seriously and let them spread there BS all over Holland and Aruba. The next day he kind of backed off a bit after the whole shenanigan backfired and no one thought they were credible with anything.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong (although I realize this is like asking a starving mouse to eat a piece of cheese if he sees one :wink: ),

In the tapes with Patrick, didn't Joran say something like the shoes were just a setup of some kind (I was thinking to send people chasing after nothing).  He really seems to get his jollies sending people off chasing clouds and screwing with the investigation, one day he may accidently tell the truth not recognizing it for what it is.

This Picture of Beth brakes my heart
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/Blondeonahd/Beth%20%20Dave%20%20Family/beth08.jpg)

Why is the picture (avatar) showing its azz?   jackblue

That is very interesting. I do recall it being said early on that Lvr's alibi for that night was that he was having a small private party at his house and that he even had his girlfriend there. Sure wish she would come and chat.....

We have said many times that even if they had Joran committing this crime itself on video, he would never go to trial.  There would be some excuse or other to prevent his ever being charged with anything.  After all, he has the power to declare people living or dead, ya know.  And at only 17 with no medical training whatsoever.

.

Yup and Max Arendsz was questioned and provided him with the alibi,I guess for all night and obviously the morning.

If it's true she must have told someone or posted it on the Dutch Blogs somewhere. I wonder where that initial post is coming from?

Thanks again for all the translations of the Dutch programs.

I am going to try to think of something important enough to contact Hero Brinkman about and ask for his assistance if I can come up with anything.

Off to watch CSI. . . .

Send him the Freebirds information on the Corrupt Judges....that is as
good as it gets.

RenHo has so many miles on her they call her retread rollback Renho.

She has had to have that thing retreaded after she got rolled back.    Jackb

Hey OE,

Anything new to report?

 ::MonkeyWink::

Just that Aruba is going to go broke for giving RenHo the money to get a splif unlift.       jackb

Thank you Carpe.

+++++++++


JENSEN

BETH NATALEE HOLLOWAY ARUBA SEG 1 march 4 2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R9XMu-aXro


2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNqYvjZCNt0

3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exh1VcZT6eQ

4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1V8pMlevac

5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om4bQfbg0iw

Many thanks!  I so hope Bram can file the civil suit. Get Joran off the streets!!  I'm not a lawyer but I hope he will be able to delve into all of these missing statements, evidence, etc.  Where the hell is Joran's statement from May 31 '05? Was it actually Paulus making 2 ATM w/d  in the wee hours or was it Joran using daddy's card?  My questions are endless, I'll try not to drive you all nuts.  As for the shoes, why can't Joran answer this simple question?
Even in his Greta interview he made such a point about his KSwiss sneakers, "yes Greta these are the same ones.  Well not the exact same ones that are missing, but they look exactly like these ones..." something to that effect.     

Someone else here posted on an earlier thread, may have been Destiny or *******, so sorry I don't recall, about "Thou dost protest too much...."  Anybody help me here?  I thought that line of thinking was really interesting and made sense.  I agree, Joran had sex (raped) Natalee without a condom and he & Paulus had to get rid of the body.  Also, I do believe Beth that Natalee was a virgin and Joran realized that during the rape. So imagine evidence - Paulus being an attorney of course would say "What have you done?!" 

Forgive me for being graphic, but I'd like to peel the skin of his face too...
Joran raped a virgin & possibly K2 raped her as well
Natalee's blood w/ Joran's semem, vomit w/ GHB & Joran's semen, her DNA all over K2 car (Liquid Ecstasy is often cut w/ herion, which makes the person vomit while slipping in and out of consciousness & GHB causes victim to black out)
Natalee has seizures, overdosing, blacked out, or went into a coma. Paulus researching affects of drugs & alcohol. 
Joran DNA, his semem inside of her and on her person.  Even if they find my semen in her = rape w/ no condom
Joran said in the Dutch version of Devries tape, to Beth & Greta, to Jug & friends on that first night, in his June 24th statement [even here he decribes the same sexual acts in details about another girl & also that 12 year old girl] and Joran and Anita describe in detail her underwear and what Joran did sexuallly with Natalee, etc....(Sorry guys this makes me cringe to even write this.) "I fingered her, I wanted her to give me a blow job, I french kissed her, I f**cked her, I'll just f**ck her.... "
Natalee DNA under Joran's fingernails, on him, his clothes, on & in his shoes....
Natalee fought back, I have to believe that, bit him, scratched, hit him and Joran assaulted her to make her stop.  JK2 put too much emphasis on "her hitting her head..."
Natalee in coma or died or murder
All that evidence would get Joran 15 years to say the least. Obviously there was zero proof of consensual sex.   If all or any of the above is not motivation for Paulus & Joran to get rid of the body, "the body of evidence" then what is?
No body, no crime
I believe Beth, Natalee was at VDS home. 
Paulus w/ help of Van der Stratten buried the body and moved the body more than once.  VDS home, then landfill, then??? Pond?  or Ocean? 
Perhaps some evidence was thrown in the pond, just like Joran did with his dead dog. 
And some thrown in the ocean.
Find body, solve crime.
Solve numerous criminal acts.

Again sorry guys!! but I really want to see the POS behind bars forever along with Paulus who the locals refer to as a "womanizer & gambler".  Like father like son.  Joran is a sociopath to say the least.

With the Aruba follow up piece back on tomorrow, I am curious to know what Patrick said about the pond and review again what CAPS said in his summary. Any news from OE about the scan they did of the pond? 


j4n!!!

I have an impression that Astrid Van Rijn is somewhat educated (owns a business, etc.) SandraK strikes me as having crawled out from under a rock, just yesterday. I find it hard to believe that SandraK is really Lorenzo's mother unless she seriously "dumbs down" her Internet posting style.

I think Beth SHOULD take a shot at a Dutch-originated civil suit against Joran and VDS family. From what limited info I have heard, the burden of proof is even less for a civil suit in Holland than in the US, and certainly the higher burden of proof here still nailed orenthal. If the Fix truly is in from On High, the suit will fail, of course, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

The prosecution could have a video tape, made by Freddy and timestamped, with Joran raping and murdering Natalee, given to them and still could not, nor would not, prosecute this case like it would be in any other civilized country in the world.

According to police, he would have hopped home like a bunny in the night, rushing home to take his final exams, but he just couldn't resist a little 'good night' porn with Daury over cookies and warm milk.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

This is the second time I have heard this story, for lack of a better word.

Wonder if there is any validity to it... It would not be out of the question.

Maybe he was searching for red herrings; they only seem to come out late at night.

Thanks to all for all the updates! 
All of those guys are heros;   I was so impressed with how kind Mr. Jensen was to Beth during Part One..... Thanks to all who are posting these.  Appreciate it.

=====================================================================

They found the shoe the day they had the search warrant to search the vd/Sloot
residence and only searched Joran's quarters.
[/quote]

If they found a shoe, it surely had chocolate on it. Jacobs probably could tell visually, as opposed to employing forensic testing. After he deemed it to be chocolate, he licked it clean.
There must be a chocolate factory on the island. Everything is always covered in chocolate.

Does Willy Wonka live on the island somewhere ???  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

I remember this vividly -- only a complete moron would go to the store and try to buy "ONE" shoe!  ::MonkeyLaugh::

Thanks again from me too!!!!

LOL! ::MonkeyCool::

We saw how Mos promised the poor pimps he would release them as suspects by December 31st because it wasn't fair to be a suspect so long which he did. Well what about the victims,is it fair to be a victim for almost 3 years and not be told anything? Whats the big deal,since all the Suspects,Spokespeople and ATA have looked through the files? Are they still protecting the Van Der Sloots privacy like they did searching there property? Is that only there business that they raped and murdered the Holloways Daughter? What about his promise to JQK that he would be able to look at the Dossier? Mos said he has 24 Detectives on the case right now,What the hell are they doing? What have they investigated the last month? What did the 40 Detectives do in Nov/Dec 07?

This Island needs to be boycotted in the worst way since they have no intention on releasing the truth or prosecuting anyone. It's not just Joran Van Der Sloot who needs to be sued for every single cent he could earn in the next 70 years off of Natalee,but Aruba for what they did to this tourist and her Family.

Good question. 
The entire shoe thing has been a puzzlement from Day One.  I keep asking myself :  How does Joran benefit from his various shoe stories?  1] They must have some evidence on them.   The rest is a misty cloud of "what ifs" !  I still say a large boned kid like that wears a very large shoe.

All I Can Say is "DITTO"!

Go Bram!! ::MonkeyCool::

I thought it was said they argued when confronted by each other during interrogations.
Meaning, the three of them sat in front of an interrogator who had been told differing stories.

 ::MonkeyCool::LOL!

...depends on your definition of "big boned" ---- I'm doubting his masculinity.  ::MonkeyWink::

LMAO!  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Caption: "Make that face again, you look just like a leprechaun. We sure could use you in the Saint Paddy's Day Parade."

Peaches,

Kinda, sorta, not really. That is Finbar for I have to go to work to feed the credit cards before Visa sends a hit man looking for me.

But a poo poo platter sounds kinda interesting.

Fin

******* and TM: If gardener's story is true, this makes sense big time. They would have seen him coming, and scrambled into the car - seating would not have been a priority. Or...taking turns as suggested. Or...killing time, waiting for help, in panic mode.

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Aruba more and more important as transshipment location for drugs

A huge amount of cocaine was intercepted on sea in February of 2007.  One huge catch can influence the statistics, but is not necessarily an indication for a certain tendency.

ORANJESTAD – Aruba functions to an increasing extent as a transshipment location for drugs that find their way via airplane or cruise ship to the United States and to a smaller extent, to Europe, states the International Narcotics Control Strategy Report for 2007 of the International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs of the American State Department that was published last Saturday.   

Aruba was only mentioned as transshipment location in the 2006 report.  According to the Bureau’s available data in the first 10 months of 2007, 390 kilo cocaine and 10 kilo heroine was intercepted.

The 2005 report also mentioned the interception of marihuana and XTC-pills, but these are no longer mentioned in the 2006 and 2007 report.  An increasing use of xtc by the youth is observed in entertainment places.  The production of narcotics in Aruba is not enough to be mentioned in the report.  According to the 2007 report, the Aruban government is pursuing a ‘dynamic anti-drug policy’, in close cooperation with her regional and international partners.   

Aruban justice has arrested and convicted a number of middlemen that delivered drugs to couriers.  The report doesn’t mention details or numbers.  Neither does the report mention the number of American citizens that tried to smuggle kilograms of drugs to the United States.   

The 2006 and 2007 reports vaguely mentioned the expansion of the facilities for the Forward Operating Location (FOL) to use at the airport.  The FOL tries to locate drug transportation from the air with airplanes of the American Air Force and Customs Department.  The 2007 report doesn’t even mention that expansion or that it still exists.

According to American justice, drug smuggling and its related money laundering practices and criminal violence continue to be a threat for Aruba and the Neth.Antilles.
Extending the Judicial cooperation between the American, Dutch, Antillean, and Aruban governments can contribute to lowering that threat on the islands and also to a broader joint fight against the drug criminality in the Caribbean.

http://www.amigoe.com/english/

 ::MonkeyHaHa::     I didn't meant that......

Aruba will probably sue Natalee for causing a loss in tourism dollars. ::MonkeyConfused::

Two places on the island were heavily protected:
(1) The VanderSloot residence.
(2) The dump / landfill.
Therefore, these places equal crime scene(s).

Agree ??

Thats probably what the 24 ATA members...I mean 24 Detectives are working on :(

It defintley was not the on the Beach after the Soul Beach Festival..Looking back on it I am suprised the Taxi Cab driver or Buuti didn't claim to see them at the beach.  ::MonkeyConfused::

No doubt in my mind the VDS property was a crime scene and later a White PU that was involved.

I have been doing a little scholarly research you could say and came across this very insightful journal article. I don't know if many of you have read this or seen it before but I present it here in its entirety:


Title: A Media Circus in Paradise. By: Wolfson, Hannah, American Journalism Review, 10678654, Aug/Sep2005, Vol. 27, Issue 4
Database: Communication & Mass Media CompleteA Media Circus in Paradise
Contents
The Distressed Treatment
Section: DROP CAP
LETTER FROM ARUBA

An Alabama reporter discovers the press doesn't quite shine in the Caribbean sun

It's the first news conference, and the police superintendent can't find the keys. But no one's told TV. One by one, the camera crews push closer, reporters from CNN and Fox News squeezing onto the narrow sidewalk between a line of parked cars and the locked door of the police annex. Jan van der Straaten, the man in charge of Aruba's investigation into Natalee Holloway's disappearance, is stuck, and soon he's sweating in the Caribbean sun.

A few locals slow down as they drive by to see what's happening while uniformed officers smirk outside the main police station across the street. Finally the door opens and everyone tumbles inside, following van der Straaten up a narrow stairway.

Welcome to the media circus, Aruba style.

OK, I'm just a novice, a print reporter from Alabama covering what started out as a hometown story about a missing teen and mushroomed into nonstop national news. Maybe the crews that converge on events like the Michael Jackson trial and the Runaway Bride are always like this. Maybe it was just the bright tropical light and the strangeness of working in paradise that made things look so absurd. All I know is, after nine days in Aruba, I see what we in the media do--and I say we with great trepidation--in a whole new light.

In fact, looking at it from the Arubans' perspective, I'm a little confused about what we do. Most of the job seems to consist of waiting around in hotel lobbies and seeing who can shout the loudest at news conferences.

There were certainly plenty of us crammed into those daily sessions in the peaked attic room of the police annex. There were a handful of local teams from Birmingham and international crews shipped from Latin America. Then came the bookers and the producers, vying for exclusives with the cloistered mother. Then the shows with dramatic theme music, in crews as large as five. And of course, the Aruban print and radio reporters, who quickly became everyone's favorite sources of speculation.

In the early days, there was plenty to cover. The Royal Dutch Marines searched the beaches while helicopters scanned overhead. Hundreds of locals were herded onto tour buses to help with the hunt. Sources were willing to talk, suspects were arrested, and officials gave tempting hints like, "Hold your breath for 24 hours." The networks sent their satellites and set them up on the roofs of hotels, settling in for the long haul.

Then things started to get weird.

First, CNN ran a report on the island's crack dens and prostitution. Local tourism authorities were outraged. So were a couple of the local reporters, who accused the American press of sabotaging Aruba's economy. By the end of week two, it seemed half of each news conference was dedicated to berating the American press. Even the family's PR agent, who originally represented the tourism authority, was accused of a conflict of interest.

We Americans didn't do ourselves proud, either. Fed up with officials' choice to conduct the first half of each news conference in Papiamento, the local language, some crews took to shouting "English, English!" during the Q-and-A.

Along with Papiamento, Arubans speak English, Spanish and Dutch, but their legal system caused tricky translations. When the first two suspects were arrested (they were later released), the chief prosecutor said they'd been charged with a range of crimes, including murder. A day later, we found ourselves redefining the meaning of "charged" to say first "formally accused" and later "suspected." It turns out they can hold suspects for months without charging them. On July 1, more than a month after Holloway disappeared, the Associated Press had to clarify a story in which the same prosecutor was again quoted as saying three suspects had been charged.

Some of the mistakes were harder to explain. Late one Friday night, CNN reported that at least one of the suspects had confessed. AP quickly followed with a report that he was leading police to the evidence. Moments later, a half dozen news crews sped down a pitch-dark dirt road toward an abandoned beach where police were supposedly digging up a body. Nothing. Officials ranging from the original source right up to the prime minister quickly denied the initial reports.

As guiltily competitive as the rest, I crept out later that night with a Birmingham television crew that was filming distant, spotty footage of men digging in the dunes--probably just local bootleggers pulling up their stash of booze.

Theories abound as to why the media became obsessed with Natalee Holloway's story. It involved a beautiful, blond honor student with influential parents; it occurred in an exotic locale; it started while the jury was out on Jacko. Granted, much of the interest back home stemmed from honest concern about a family's loss. Natalee's mother, Beth Twitty, insisted her daughter represented something perfect and innocent that was lost, a fear that touches the heart of any parent. The outpourings of support in Natalee's hometown and on the island were real, even if they were on camera.

But it also seems the sheer lack of information also spurred the story, because it left plenty of room for speculation, especially as the case progressed. (Aruban officials said releasing details of the investigation could cause a judge to throw out their case.) Natalee had been sold into white slavery, the blogs said. Natalee had run away on a previous trip abroad, Aruban radio countered. Fellow graduates who were on the trip refused to talk: conspiracy! The lead suspect's dad is a judge: conspiracy! My favorite theory came from Aruban reporters who thought police staged the false leak about a confession to discredit American news sources.

Back home in the newsroom, I continued reporting the story by phone as my Aruba tan faded, trying to confirm information as it flashed on TV. Again and again, I heard sources on the other end sigh and say, "No, that's not right." I watched the same television personality who "broke" the news about bloodstains in a suspect's car--which turned out not to be bloodstains--criticize authorities for taking Holloway's family on an emotional rollercoaster. But who's really driving?

The Distressed Treatment
"A damsel must be white. This requirement is nonnegotiable. It helps if her frame is of dimensions that breathless cable television reporters can credibly describe as 'petite.'… She must be attractive--also nonnegotiable. Her economic status should be middle class or higher, but an exception can be made in the case of wartime (see: [Jessica] Lynch).

"Put all this together, and you get 24-7 coverage."

--Washington Post columnist Eugene
Robinson, writing on the media's
and the nation's obsession with
white damsels in distress

PHOTO (COLOR): One tiny piece of the media circus: A U.S. television news crew interviews Beth Twitty (center), mother of missing teen Natalee Holloway, in Oranjestad, Aruba. (In the background on this page is a poster released by the Holloway family.)

~~~~~~~~

By Hannah Wolfson


Wolfson covers the city of Mountain Brook, Alabama, Holloway's hometown, for the Birmingham News.

YES!!!

 ::MonkeyDance::

Good Night Monkeys.

Janet
9:20 PM

have noticed every once in awhile, not often,
that sK posts in a more literate manner

used to do the double-take when encountering it

the dumbing-down could account for the difference ...
or perhaps the nic is shared

 :wink:

Thanks so much…  All of you are amazing.  The Freebird 411 on this site sums up my questions and then some.  Essential details and relevant questions.  I hope Bram and Hero Brinkman will study that information, in fact everything on SM. 

It’s unbelievable there is no evidence and they have not been charged with any criminal acts!  Rape & kidnapping – put the burden of proof on them. They have gone to extraordinary lengths to destroy/sanitize the evidence or not provide the most basic forms of evidence. This is beyond corruption and collusion to me. 

I don’t trust Mos – he made sure Joran could not be rearrested. I hope Hero and/or Bram will really look into everything.

Investigation into the investigation.
Investigation into the lack of/total absence of evidence.

“….understand Bram is a hell of a good lawyer and would know how to demand all the case files….” 

I agree with you!  I’m glad Beth & John Q. Kelly have him in their court.  Bram, his father and siblings are all lawyers, fine ones to boot. Agreed, no way does Paulus have the $$$$ to pay Taco and all. 

I care deeply about Natalee and her family.  I am very concerned about the past & next victim/s of Joran.  I will never forget when Patrick said and was visably upset, “He (Joran) has no soul man, he is not human, he is another form of species……”  IMO, Joran has no soul, empathy, remorse, nothing – he is a psychopath/sociopath/rapist etc…. He feels nothing. He has zero integrity. He talks about his victims the same way BTK did, or OJ, Dahmer, etc…

I hope Bram does open a big old can of whupass! I hope Devries has someone tailing Joran and Paulus.  Bring it guys, get the psychos behind bars.

God Bless Beth & Dave and family......

J4N!!!!

Please forgive me, as I have been so busy, which will be the case for a little while.  So It would be so gracious if you can provide me with any quick updates I might have missed since yesterday.  It kills me to be away from here, but am dying to know if I've missed anything, especially with the news events and Venzuala vs Columbia.   So anybody willing to give me a snapshot or bullit points of anything new or interesting today?  I would me so much appreciative!  TIA  ::MonkeyCool::

Ok, well it's late and not many people on now, so I'm heading to the bunky.   I'll try again tomorrow.

G'night and sweet dreams all my monkey friends!

Hi Dihannah - nothing really new today except Beth on the Dutch programs.  Looks like that Dutch attorney may be representing her in some civil suits (he hasn't taken the case yet).  I haven't listed to the show but it sounds like everyone, including the audience were very sympathetic to Beth.

Nothing new on the Venezuela thing in relationship to Aruba.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3480899/_Onderzoekt_claim_Van_der_Sloot__.html?p=7,1

(http://www.telesport.nl/multimedia/archive/00157/bram_jpg_157876d.jpg)

Through google translator:

Moszkowicz investigates claim against Van der Sloot

HILVERSUM - Lawyer Bram Moszkowicz investigates whether he Joran van der Sloot through a civil procedure can tackle. In the TV program Pauw and Witteman he said Wednesday evening the odds "85 to 90 percent" believe that he on behalf of Beth Twitty, the mother of missing American teenager Natalee Holloway, a claim goes requirements.

According to Moszkowicz, Van der Sloot's mother harmed by the confessions about the disappearance that he did for the hidden camera of crime reporter Peter R. De Vries, concealment of the Aruban justice. According to the lawyer Natalees mother "psychic gedecompenseerd" and under treatment by a psychiatrist.

That is reason enough for him to recover compensation on the basis of so-called shockschade. Moszkowicz said the process only begin if a big chance of succeeding, because the losses of the case the mother even heavier in mental problems could bring. "This woman can not get much more," he said about Beth Twitty.

The famous lawyer said further curious to find that Van der Sloot still on free feet. "The court commissioner who previously vasthield him without confession, says too little now in the hands with a confession," says Moszkowicz. It is in his view "beyond dispute" that the ontboezemingen of Joran van der Sloot to be regarded as a confession.

What is that man doing with his mouth? lol

WTF?

Maybe someone from there can contact this reporter and see if we can get a clip.

The general area of the dunes would be interesting.

Fin

Hi Suisse

You can blame me for that post.  I continue to be amazed at the number of my brother and sister monkeys who understood what I was trying to say.  I almost deleted it as I have done others that didn't appear to make sense. 

I should have known my fellow monkeys are smarter than the average bear.

~The Average Bear
        ::MonkeyCool::

She is applying for a job as a refrigerator repairman(person)?

Jo-An

Thank you for translating the show for us.  I hope you have gotten enough rest for another day in the cage.

                                                               ::MonkeyWink::

Just 5 hrs of sleep so I'm feeling a bit  ::MonkeyConfused::!!!!

Good morning.  I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest Mr. Frosted Flakes has not been able to see him own feet for a long time.  IMO.

Anyone need one of these?  ::MonkeyHaHa::
I mean... after nearly 3 years of this mess...

(http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/2219/fukitolpb7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

I agree.  Where's a good volcano when you need it? 

Peter R. de Vries is working on some new, very promising, leads but doesn't know yet if there will a show about it.

I get this from an interview that the company I work for did with him...it hasn't been aired yet (and of course I don't if or when that will happen).

I did get an ok to do some more research for the corruptionlink with this case! Many thanks to Jo-An who gave me the link with the summary; it helped a lot!

I must emphasise this still doesn't mean an awful lot; checking 'a story' a bit more happens but at least the request / idea wasn't a no ;-)

There is so much corruption around this case so I think I need to focus on the most important ones. Because otherwise it could be overwhelming. So some feedback would be very much appreciated.....

it's a man ray photo, and i liked it.

I am not quite sure what you are looking for.

I have always been fascinated at a couple times that Aruba has moved fast. 

Once, when MSNBC had been invited into KIA and ended up filming Joran........instant injunction.  Did parliament get called, in the night?  The prison board??  Madura apologizing to Paulus??  Who had the power to stop this that fast?

Slanderous statements by the psychics and Renee Gielen, backed by the Ministers, paid travel by the government (Ministers?).  Han Mos, on returning from vacation, issues a statement removing suspect status from Julia Renfro (no one else and several people are slandered).  Did he think that up himself?  Who issued that order?

Who decides what everybody does?  Rudy? (and the Ministers?)

First things that come to mind:
-why was v.d. Sloot property not searched entirely?
-why did v.d. Straten say that he knew that Natalee wouldn't be found alive because he "knew the investigation"?
-where are the missing statements from May 31st?
-where are the missing pages from Paul's statement?
-why was the press informed that Natalee's body had been found, but days later that announcement was withdrawn and a couple of days later one of the suspects said "something bad happened" to Natalee?

I think we could market these!! lol

GBMW -- van der Stratten and Jacobs have to be top of the list...those first few days.

Notice that this report mentions nothing about the "UNDERWATER" storage and retrieval system that might be in place... The bulk of drug shipments is always heavier by water as opposed by air. 

Now here is an interesting Swiss article on hiding drugs in the sea and the connection to Chavez and the Drug Cartels with trafficking to Africa, North America and Europe -- just one more perspective as to the importance of Aruba to Chavez and the drug lords...

Does anyone out there really believe that certain Aruban officials are above the infectious corruption of the illicit drug trade? 

http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/international/ticker/detail/Venezuela_a_hot_spot_in_global_drugs_trade.html?siteSect=143&sid=8038341&cKey=1184857762000 (http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/international/ticker/detail/Venezuela_a_hot_spot_in_global_drugs_trade.html?siteSect=143&sid=8038341&cKey=1184857762000)

Of particular interest in the above url link I posted is a portion of the article that refers to "cowboys" -- American DEA agents -- take note Shango riddlers:

This is the original interview:

’Ik geloof niet meer dat ze nog leeft’
Door Dick Hofland/GPD

ORANJESTAD - Commissaris Jan van der Straten leidt op Aruba het onderzoek naar de verdwijning van de Amerikaanse puber Natalee Holloway. Hoop op een goede afloop voor het verdwenen meisje heeft hij niet meer. Aandachtig luistert hij naar iemand die hem telefonisch tipt over de verdwijning van de Amerikaanse puber Natalee Holloway. ,,O, jaja. Nou, aan helderzienden heb ik niks.''

Hij schudt het hoofd. ,,Ik heb alleen iets aan feiten.’’ Op zijn kantoor in de wijk Noord op Aruba hangt een tijdslijn, waar het verloop van de onderzoek te volgen is; wie was waar op welk moment, wie heeft wie waar, wanneer gezien. Dertien jaar werkt hij nu op Aruba en volgende maand gaat hij met pensioen. Af en toe was er een moord, meestal in de familiesfeer, soms had die te maken met drugs. Verder gebeurt er niet zo veel. ,,Arubanen zijn vriendelijke mensen, die geweld schuwen.’’ De laatste vijf jaar is hij belast met de reorganisatie van de politie op het tropische eiland.

- Een makkie?
,,Ha. Zo zou ik het niet willen noemen. Als je hier bent als Nederlander moet je niet zeggen: zó moet het. Je moet de mensen er altijd bij betrekken."

- Het is een hechte gemeenschap, ook het justitiewereldje. Is dat niet link?
,,Het is een klein eiland, iedereen kent iedereen. Rechters, advocaten, op recepties kom ik ze allemaal tegen.’’

- Dus ook Paul van der S., die een tijdje heeft vastgezeten op verdenking van betrokkenheid bij de verdwijning?
,,Ja, ik ken hem goed. Maar zoals ze hier zeggen: lei pa un, lei pa tur. De wet voor één is de wet voor allen. Als er redenen zijn om iemand te arresteren, dan doe je dat.’’

- Wat doet de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway u?
,,Ik vind het afschuwelijk voor de ouders, het is niet niks als je je kind kwijtraakt. Maar ik blijf zakelijk: dit is een onderzoek.’’

- Men begint ongeduldig te worden.
,,Een goed onderzoek vraagt tijd. Bij haast is niemand gebaat. Als je gaat forceren, is de kans op fouten te groot."

- Hebt u nog hoop op een goede afloop?

,,Hoop moet je altijd hebben, maar ik geloof niet dat we Natalee levend zullen terugvinden.’’

- Waarom niet?
,,Omdat ik het onderzoek ken.’’

Omdat ik het onderzoek ken = Because I know the investigation

Or do you maybe mean different interview??

Even more on the subject on underwater storage and trafficking of drugs by FARC:


http://www.mapinc.org/tlcnews/v07/n1283/a06.htm (http://www.mapinc.org/tlcnews/v07/n1283/a06.htm)

And even more interesting reading:


http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg114662.html (http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg114662.html)

point and counterpoint:

Contention: The reason the Natalee Holloway case has been covered up and smeared by the toxins of corruption is directly linked to National Security issues of the United States visa vi the War on Drugs and the instable government of Venezuela with strong links to FARC and the Drug Cartels.

The "cowboys" of the DEA are somehow connected to the controversy.  Whether you like it or not Natalee will never see justice as long as this issue best serves the National Security of the United States.

Natalee was simply in the wrong place and the wrong time and this is why Paulus, in his sick and perverted mind, is so secure in his premise of "no body, no crime."

Paulus might even be a hero in the eyes of the "cowboys" if he has been supplying information or support in the "war against drugs"...

fact or fiction... you decide...

I'm not casting judgments here -- only observations and a study of the facts of the case.

He has DickyDoo Syndrome. That is when your belly sticks out further than your dicky do.

oh and PS...

I am so disappointed... ::MonkeyNoNo::

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z215/kickradio/harryking.jpg)

I went out and bought NEW SUSPENDERS...

and nobody...but not notbody even noticed:

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z215/kickradio/harryking2.gif)

Just goes to show everybody loves my loveable face and forgets about the rest of me...LOL  ::MonkeyTongue:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

LOL Silver ....I did notice!! LMAO!

(Translation)
The mother of Lorenzo, Astrid van Rijn, operates as a poster on a number of websites (as SandraK and Keywest). She said recently that she is on good footing with Robin Holloway, the wife of Dave Holloway. Of course, this is spicy, now that the former girlfriend of Lorenzo van Rijn withdrew his alibi on May 30, 2005

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2669.100

I posted this somewhere yesterday, SandraK the nic anyway was posting with a group at (soda pop site)?

Robin was posting there and SandraK became changed, very  very nice

Very similar to "Dunlops" syndrome............................................



......... when "his belly done lopped over his belt"

Now for the next question (or at least my next question):

"I do not photograph nature. I photograph my visions."

Man Ray, the master of experimental and fashion photography was also a painter, a filmmaker, a poet, an essayist, a philosopher, and a leader of American modernism. Known for documenting the cultural elite living in France, Man Ray spent much of his time fighting the formal constraints of the visual arts. Ray’s life and art were always provocative, engaging, and challenging.

<snip>

He died on November 18, 1976 at the age of eighty-six. One the great artists and agitators of his time, Man Ray will be remembered not simply for the fascinating and experimental works he left behind, but for the crucial role he played in encouraging the revolutionary in art.

Man Ray: Prophet of the Avant-Garde 
 
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/ray_m.html

I love being a monkey, I learn something new every day!

here is Hero Brinkman talking about corruption (mp3, in dutch):

http://download.omroep.nl/rnw/smac/cms/car_gevangenisst_maarten_20080305_44_1kHz.mp3

it is in dutch, but he says he has many sources from inside the antilles and outside.

also he has received hunderds of e-mails about corrupt politicians and state officials.

this news article in less detail than the mp3 is about the same subject:
http://antilliaans.caribiana.nl/bovenwinden/Car20080305_Gevangenis-NOVA

i translated it yesterday, it is mainly about corruption on st. maarten - this was brought up by NOVA current affairs program.

this article is about the new technical assistent taking over.
the previous assistent was sent home after he revealed a corruption scandal. the article however doesn't mention this.
(stealing a large sum of money from the prison with possible involvement of the prison director himself!)
http://news.caribseek.com/Sint_Maarten/The_Daily_Herald/article_62500.shtml
st. maarten is particulary bad as last month the police chief was transferred and arrested.
http://www.thedailyherald.com/news/daily/k239/holiday239.html
there is much to read about that. just unbelievable...
not directly related to aruba, but it shows to me the climate of corruption on the antilles/aruba.



as said before friday/saturday the remaining parts on NOVA about corruption.

I noticed, I even noticed you have hands now.

just to add to this. this brought the justice minister of the Antilles David Dick in a very awkward position.

to explain there are 3 countries: aruba, antilles, netherlands.
all have a justice minister.
http://www.thedailyherald.com/news/daily/k239/holiday239.html

i think there is a good chance one remaining NOVA part is about this scandal.

as said before not related to aruba.
but overall attention to corruption on antilles/aruba is a good thing - it can set other things in motion.
and it backs up Hero Brinkman's allegation of the 'corrupt gangter's nest'. there is no denying anymore.

"Hero Brinkman was right after all"

Caesu

Thanks for translating the show last night.

                         ::MonkeyCool::

I noticed!!! I always was reminded of Larry King. I think people forget just how big Larry was in radio before his CNN show. I had assumed LK was inspirational for "kickradio"!

interesting reading to get the whole police chief replacement problem understood.
david dick is of course also justice minister for bonaire.

if the justice minister of the antilles is going down this is a huge scandal.


Mercelina said there was a situation in Bonaire similar to that in St. Maarten. The Netherlands will not extend the contract of Police Chief Commissioner Johan van der Straten and NAPB believes that again a Dutch replacement will be appointed.

http://www.thedailyherald.com/news/daily/k222/blow222.html

jan = short for johan

I do not think SandraK is Lorenzo's mum. Unless Lorenzo's Mum lives in Michigan.
Klaas??

i could do a full transcript translation because it was very interesting but difficult to with al the 'law terms'.

but the Telegraaf article already posted here gives a very good summary.

i hope bram mosko will go on one of the american networks like greta for example.
or JQK will go into details about what Bram Mosko is trying to do.

Bram Mosko is next week on Jensen.

yesterday's Pauw/Witteman:

http://player.omroep.nl/?aflID=6626789 (Bram Mosko starts about 2 thirds on the show)

yesterday's Jensen:

click here (http://www.rtl.nl/(vm=/shows/jensen/home/)/system/video/html//components/shows/jensen/miMedia/2008/week10/wo_gasten_de_zaak_holloway.avi_plain.xml) (mostly in Dutch)

Hi and Good Morning all..

Hey, I'm thinking about this possible civil suit by Beth and Bram. I'm not sure what that would accomplish in terms of a monetary reward. The Sloots will certainly claim some sort of insolvency. I guess it could be a moral victory, but without the money to compensate for Beth's loss, I really don't think it would be totally worth it. The expense of such a suit would be pretty high. Beth would need to reside in Holland during the suit and that alone would be expensive. Then add in the costs of Bram. So, it's not worth it unless the Sloots can be squeezed.

But, it would also make them suffer which I'm all for. It would also possibly enter their banking records and I would love to see those. Especially any ATM transactions around 5-30-2005.

Another interesting fact would be revealed . . . and that would be who the heck is really paying for all these attorneys.
I am quite sure that a school teacher and a corrupt civil servant do not have the funds to pay these high priced attorneys and Taco is one of the highest paid around. So, I would look forward to that.

And the fact that Paulus is hiring attorneys for the Kalpoes would be revealed.

It would be interesting to see how the Sloots pay for all these expenses yet seem to have no real wealth.

I also realize that Jossy has said Paulus seems to have the money to pay these expenses and I am also aware that the Sloot family may have been compensated for the land that was used in the highway project in Holland. But, I just do not see the Sloots as wealthy. They drive old cars and their house looks to be only around 100K.

They just don't seem wealthy to me.

If they suffer, I'm happy. Funny how that works. LOL

Wow, that is great news!

I would focus on Van der Stratten and Jacobs.

IMO, some (no, more than expected) of the wealthy hide their wealth. If you look at the Venture Capital people in California, a lot of them live in higher than modest homes, but not really extravagant, and drive $25,000 cars. I think as they accrue more money, it becomes a game to make more without the desire to spend.

Klauss,
Can you fix my avi so it doesn't have the extra buttons? TIA

http://www.thedailyherald.com/news/daily/k235/justice235.html

Attorney General = Procureur Generaal

this must be an article from 2 weeks ago.

i linked these things up and now i find an article doing the same thing.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

this english blog is very interesting about the antilles/st. maarten corruption:

http://sxmprivateeye.com/

(main language on st. maarten is english)

http://sxmprivateeye.com/node/12227
O M G

i wonder what happens if the NOVA crew went to aruba as well to look into corruption there.

I forgot to highlight some key parts of this article.

(http://sxmprivateeye.com/files/images/Today%20O%20and%20C%20-%20NOVA%20-%2027th%20February%202008.jpg)

[/b][/color]

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3487159/__Ik_weet_wie_Natalee_in_zee_gooide___.html

http://www.revu.nl/10865.Ook_Van_der_Eem_stiekem_gefilmd

"I know who dumped Natalee in the sea"

about the secret taping of Patrick on Telearuba program.

A very rough translation Poentje / Patrick van der Eem (sorry don't have time to really look into right now...I'm also working ;-) :

OPENING UN DIA PINE BIDA Father: ,.......zie you, however, you feel it.
PATRICK no, no, no, but that are it correctly, understand je... but look....
ANNOUNCER: But do you approach me differently than all other persons who you have spoken so far?
PATRICK yes!
PATRICK but actual well, get je....zoals I from the beginning had have been said... ANNOUNCER: If you give your e-mail address and phone number me, then take I contact with you and I by means of e-mail will let know how late it starts exactly and on which Internet site is possible you correct to examine it.
PATRICK my number is 0031....
ANNOUNCER: Under which name do have place I this sukkel? PATRICK closed black ditch.hahahaha..nee..eigen in the ditch.
PATRICK 0031,6107 209....
ANNOUNCER: How many minutes twist you already Riche? Riche: 17 minutes.. ANNOUNCER: Oh, I thought that I was already for 15 minutes to for talking, ah we can still much more chatter.hahaha...
PATRICK I found that, however, spirituously. A
NNOUNCER: If we have enough time still so much, then I like, however, a biertje, do you do want there also one? PATRICK no, no, thanks je... 209 **
ANNOUNCER: Do you do want then no orange juice or something else then?
PATRICK no, no.dank you, I must this way direct with the children there vandoor. ANNOUNCER: This is your number?
PATRICK yes, these are my number
ANNOUNCER: What is you e-mail?
PATRICK P******@planet.nl
ANNOUNCER: Okay.
PATRICK well, but the information exchange with the police force had gone well and they have much information to their beschikking...... (discontinuance)..
ANNOUNCER: takes along my biertje for me.
ANNOUNCER: Yes he..Patrick I you what to tell have rolled..ik in this matter, but the matter did not please me.....
ANNOUNCER: If you want, you can dry yourself face.. PATRICK no, no.ga your pace maar....ik leave this way directly..
ANNOUNCER: And uhm..van all information which they have to their arrangement, was scarcely used.
PATRICK From Joran?
ANNOUNCER: No....wat with Natalee have happened and where nobody makes himself very for.
ANNOUNCER: Information which therefore possibly useful is.....hoe long course this matter already? Three years? Nou dan... the certain about two and a half, perhaps almost three years old.
PATRICK Yes... in May are the three years hear.
ANNOUNCER: Thus, it is not this way that I say that nothing has happened, but as long as the lawsuit runs still, I do leave all options
PATRICK open but what finds you of it yourself? Has it happened on the range or at home? ANNOUNCER: Yes but..weet you what it is..ik have the feeling which if you are with someone for talking, all energy of that person is drawn to your. And you have lived with this boy. He is therefore still spiritual in your present and as a result, has I the feeling which I will doubt to mezelf if I am with your for talking. I feel therefore that you make me uncertain. A feeling which I have experienced never earlier. What I on television saw an incredibly role game was. He had you simply. He knew that you were in search of information and played then cunning to realise this way the closed deal. And the moment you think that you the some are the information gathered with, the contents have been elsewhere differently formulated already. Also if I now against your for talking am, I have the feeling that *** *** **, understand you what I mean?
PATRICK yes..maar look.. since I him knows already so many years, could not produce I it to live whereas with meself, I knew that he involved were and simply the feeling had that I had do something. Get you? He simply need its voice would have let hear and I has used there. For seven months. At the second time that they had looked up him I could gather most of the information.
ANNOUNCER: You then they means him had apprehended?
PATRICK no, them him had locked up keertje and had locked up, but I was in the Netherlands whereas I was for the matter for working. It was on Wednesday and we would start on Monday.
ANNOUNCER: Oh, yes, yes..
PATRICK I have considered even everything, how the surroundings had be arranged with microfoontjes and plants. Of verscholen mini-cameraatjes in plants to even the Internet - and tel. connection which products drawn off. But I you what to tell; he spends a lot of money.
ANNOUNCER: Which parties have been involved if it comes on disbursements. I you say to PATRICK that, however.. I give the same to both parties, but it is a large group. The press gets what but also the police constables concerned. Look, if there occurs a problem of such magnitude on Aruba, then people will get another representation of him, because what he says all ordinary incredibly is.
ANNOUNCER: Yes, it will continue himself repeat.

PATRICK yes, and the complete representation of him will become therefore still more terrible.
PATRICK I will say something you..er are something strange going with the tale concerning those other boys.
PATRICK but I know who threw the body in the ocean


TO BE CONTINUED Comment of Me leaves firstly next clarifying what sees you smoking Patrick in the film is no drugs, but simply a cigarette. And I did not smell also. This small film is concluded with "to be continued" because coming Thursday the whole film is transmitted. It is a film in which much obscene words are spoken, but were the only be able be felt manner Patrick at its ease and "or the record" a conversation to hold. Furthermore this small film has been taken purely incidental and the time further course will stipulate. But coming Thursday, for 21.00 the small film in its whole will be transmitted on Tele Aruba. But because we are still in negotiation with the Netherlands and America for obtaining the necessary uitzendrechten, in which the other side of the medal will be illuminated, in which Mr. had lured Van of the Joran in a car, for as such to information at to come which was zojuist shown. Coming Thursday it will be shown in 20 minutes lasting small film what Mr. Van of the Eem to information has been possible gather from Joran of the ditch.

Locking video fragment:

PATRICK one day he will fall on his face. Your weet not where the other family members are busy. I will ensure that their whole life is embittered. I have more than 120 sms-berichten to my arrangement.
ANNOUNCER: How do we know that this not a trap is between you, *** and Joran? PATRICK when you come to the Netherlands, then I you, however, what to show..haha END PRESENTATION TITLE: UN DIA PINE BIDA

"I know who Natalee threw into the sea '
By our reporters
ORANJESTAD (Aruba) - Patrick van der Eem, Joran van der Sloot for hidden cameras in the fall attracted demonstrated himself to be filmed secretly.
   
 

After an interview on Aruba with a local television station showed Van der Eem a number of spicy statements ontlokken, because he thought that cameras had been stopped.

"I know who the body is thrown into the sea," says Van der Eem in Papiaments against the Aruban interviewer. "Joran asked me to 2000 euro for that man to be silent," said van der Eem during the secretly recorded discussion.

The undercover criminal claims that he has the whole operation itself organized. "I have even invented everything, how the environment had to be equipped with microphones and plants. From minicameraatjes hidden in plants to even the Internet and telephone that were drained. "

Van der Eem also says that he expects to be a millionaire by the whole thing. "And I will make sure that Joran and his entire family in their mouth. They can better emigrate to Africa, "Van der Eem threatening.

The interview took place at the end of last month in response to the book that Van der Eem by an American journalist late. The interviewer from the station Un Dia Den Bida face of this newspaper: "I had two cameras included. After the interview I had an off and the other doordraaien. Van der Eem knew that not only was it simply answer my questions. "

The complete interview will be broadcast tonight on the Aruban television. Patrick van der Eem is now back in the Netherlands yesterday and was not reachable for comment.

Nieuwe Revu Meanwhile showed the filpmjes translate. The transcription of the document can be found here. The key passages are shown in bold.

Thnaks for that!  These comments are really intersting if I'm getting the translation right:

PATRICK yes, and the complete representation of him will become therefore still more terrible.
PATRICK I will say something you..er are something strange going with the tale concerning those other boys.   PATRICK but I know who threw the body in the ocean


TO BE CONTINUED Comment of Me leaves firstly next clarifying what sees you smoking Patrick in the film is no drugs, but simply a cigarette. And I did not smell also. This small film is concluded with "to be continued" because coming Thursday the whole film is transmitted. It is a film in which much obscene words are spoken, but were the only be able be felt manner Patrick at its ease and "or the record" a conversation to hold. Furthermore this small film has been taken purely incidental and the time further course will stipulate. But coming Thursday, for 21.00 the small film in its whole will be transmitted on Tele Aruba. But because we are still in negotiation with the Netherlands and America for obtaining the necessary uitzendrechten, in which the other side of the medal will be illuminated, in which Mr. had lured Van of the Joran in a car, for as such to information at to come which was zojuist shown. Coming Thursday it will be shown in 20 minutes lasting small film what Mr. Van of the Eem to information has been possible gather from Joran of the ditch.  Locking video fragment:

PATRICK one day he will fall on his face. Your weet not where the other family members are busy. I will ensure that their whole life is embittered. I have more than 120 sms-berichten to my arrangement.
ANNOUNCER: How do we know that this not a trap is between you, *** and Joran? PATRICK when you come to the Netherlands, then I you, however, what to show..haha END PRESENTATION TITLE: UN DIA PINE BIDA

So did Patrick say that Joran asked him for $2000 euros to pay off the person that helped him dispose of the body? This is confusing! Does it also say that he was going to record that transfer of money with hidden microphones?

main points:

-patrick knew joran for years - they didn't meet in the casino for the first time
-it was patrick plan with the microphones between plants (as in indoor plants) and the micro-camera's. also the tapping of internet and phone connections.
-a lot of parties are involved. the press but also police-officers.
-patrick says there is something strange going on with the other boys (the kalpoe brothers???)
-patrick knows who threy the body in the sea

host asks: how do we know this is not all a trap set up by you and joran?

patrick says: when you come to the netherlands you will see, hahaha



---------------------
revu is a tabloid magazine.
and stan de jong who co-wrote this is an enemy of peter r. de vries.
stan de jong also writes on witheet, steve brown also writes there.

but this is quite bad. i am sure peter r. will write something on his site soon.
maybe patrick is also going to say that he lied all this to the aruban tv.

ANYBODY HERE

 ::MonkeyEek::

Is this a positive or a negative for the case?

I'm here,but my mind is going  ::MonkeyConfused::

Is this saying Patrick is playing everyone?  is he playing games?

I can't follow this at all!

I'm here BR, still trying to digest this with my morning grits:

"I know who dumped Natalee in the sea"

 ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyEek::

- maybe he meant he knew the case for years (instead of knowing Joran for years)....was familiar with it?
- Patrick probably tried to set up Joran himself and asked / paid a lot of people for help including police?
- the trap thing: there are some dots there also...so probably someone else involved too in that question?
- Patrick seems to know a bit more than he's letting on ;-)

This is all a bit weird....this case is  just getting more complicated...hopefully the full tape will be aired tonight and translated soon. And hopefully some reactions by Patrick / Peter R. de Vries in the Dutch media tonight!

Hi Dayhiker,

Interesting - fer sure.

So, do I have this right? Patrick knows who did it, but has not said yet?

He better spill the boston beans or he might end up in a fish trap.

What about the 2,000 euros, what does that mean?

Morning Bro, yeppers he better be off the island or he'll end up with his head cut off like the furnace worker.  ::MonkeyConfused::

This is either going to be the biggest break in this case to date, or, a textbook example of what is meant by the phrase "lost in translation!"

 ::MonkeyShocked::

He's already off the island.  He was just on the DeVries show yesterday or the day before with Beth.

Dayhiker, I *think* one one the posts said he is back in the Netherlands.

This is getting quite ridiculous. Patrick met with Mos last week - did he disclose that info then?

very confusing what this al means.

microphones / camera's in between plants??
so that's not in the car because there are not plants of course.
or were they first trying to do the under cover operation in a home or restaurant.

have to keep in mind that this comes from Revu magazine.
this magazine came last week with the article about Patrick's past.

i am also waiting for a reaction from Peter R. about all this.

the actual broadcast on aruba tv is tonight.

Somehow I'm getting a real sinking feeling.. ::MonkeyConfused::

caesu, weren't there cams between some plants with the Poentje interview the other night? After Patrick though the interview was over and the cameras removed the interviewed continued and Patrick was unaware he was video'd?

I have no idea....I'm confused.

When I read "plants" I was thinking the same thing, does that mean there is other audio/video of conversations between Patrick and Joran in a location other than the car?

That seems to be what is being said. What else could it imply?

Ik weet wie het lichaam in zee heeft gegooid,” zegt Van der Eem in het Papiaments tegen de Arubaanse interviewer. „Joran vroeg me om 2000 euro om die man te laten zwijgen,”

I know who threw the body into the sea / ocean, says Van der Eem in Papiamento to the interviewer. Joran asked me for 2000 Euros to keep the man silent.

This quote is NOT in the transcript from the Nieuwe Revue so I don't know where it came from....but Patrick is officially quoted so maybe de Telegraaf (where this comes from) has more information.

Or, does that he mean between the plants during the TeleAruba interview??

Who got paid 2,000 euro, seems like a paltry amount to dispose of a body, if that's correct??


HELP!!!!!   SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS MADNESS!!!


 ::MonkeyWaa::

the way i understood it: joran asked patrick for 2000 euros to give to the guy who helped him dump the body
Buying silence

no, he was talking about the under cover operation in the netherlands to get joran to confess.

but it is all very very confusing now.
i am sure the next few hours peter r. comes with a reaction.

keep refreshing his site i would suggest.
http://www.peterrdevries.nl/

the earlier column of peter was also about patrick, debunking last weeks article in Revu.

translation - Joran is shaking Patrick down for 2000 euros. The only motivation the "person" who threw Natalee into the ocean needs to to keep quiet so he doesn't get charged with murder.

After 3 years, I doubt that person is all of a sudden shaking Joran down for 2000 euros. That makes no sense, but Joran never does either....

Ok, that is what I thought but that begs the question how can the person who disposed of the body be in a position to threathen Joran into giving him $2,000?? That person would be turning himself and Joran in if that were the case!

"joran gave patrick 2000 euro.
so patrick wouldn't say the name of the person how dumped her in the ocean.
patrick knows the name of this person."

http://www.nu.nl/news/1467475/10/Van_der_Eem_beweert_Joran_al_jaren_te_kennen.html

So now it's Joran paying Patrick?  ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused::

ohhhh...

I hope Patrick makes that name known instantly so it can be investigated. And why the heck is he sitting there next to Beth and holding that info from her...

I better shut up about Patrick

Hey dayhiker i am wondering where de Telegraaf got this info from it is not in the transcript This gets weirder all the time

Remember that Hans Mos and Aruba has had a chance to poison talk to Patrick about everything.

Again, that makes no sense at all. What the hell is he going to do with a measley 2000 euro!

This case just can not get any stranger.......Or can it??

Thanks Blade

When I compare your post (above) and *******'s post (below) ... a picture emerges that implies that Joran or ... whoever confessed on June 10, 2005 ... knew where Natalee's remains had been originally buried but ... was unaware that she had been moved.

Janet

++++++++++++

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360847;topicseen#msg360847

*******:

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
« Reply #755 on: March 04, 2008, 10:33:01 PM »

I just posted this recently but I want to make sure we have this all in the same place.

More on white truck....from Fox's At Large Show - Sunday July 31st, 2005

Jossy states......

The latest information we have in the investigation is that the police are actively looking for a K-Swiss style shoe - size 14 that belongs to Joran van der Sloot.  Now the police have information that he lost either one or both of his shoes that early morning in which Natalee disappeared. That would be the 30th of May.

The witness by the landfill tells us that he was sitting in his car and he saw a white pick-up truck drive in, their were 3 occupants and 2 of them got out. Picked up a trash can plastic bag, the black ones, the big ones and they carried it over to where this whole bunch of other bags and rubble was. Now when they were doing that, he says that some blond hair fell out of the bag because the bag was not properly sealed and that he could see parts of human body and then he saw them dig a little among the rubble that was there already and then place this bag there then covered with some other near by lying bags and then put a small pool, plastic pool that babies swim in or bathe in on top of it and then put some more stuff and then walked away.  He also told us that there was another car outside of the cyclone fence, looking on. The man in that car stepped out, he stood by the fence and looked at the whole proceeding's.  We do believe him because from the beginning he has been reliable with his story and it does fit the description we got from another witness between the Holiday Inn and the Marriott Hotel.

The letter that we received is from the wife of the person with whom this guy was on the beach with between the Holiday Inn and Marriott wrote us because she was getting a annoyed that no one was paying attention to the declaration that this man gave to her husband at the hotel.

I will read it for you... The day after Natalee was missing a person called Barbeshe (Bar-Be-she) told a story that the night before he saw 3 people in front of the Holiday Inn with a girl's body. That they tried to take a towel from one the "walks fence's" (really hard to understand him here - sounds like he says "water sports dance or fence") to wrap the body and they could not get it down. Then one of them went to the garbage cans at the Holiday Inn and pulled the bags out and wrapped the body, then put her in the white pick-up and left. They went out and turned left towards the lighthouse and turned off on a dirt road and dug a hole and put her in it and threw out the shovel. He also said he told the police and they sent him on a 4 wheeler to try and find, locate the spot and he had been threatened by these people. This person has been seen on the beach everyday has no longer been seen after this and was known to be there daily.

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/08/fyi.html

Unless he was going to bribe the Van der Sloots to become a "millionaire."

Paulus the Pervus looks like a pretty good sized man...wonder what size shoe he wears....Daurey and Urine like to *swing* in the same circles...wonder of Pervus had a pair of size 14 Kswiss tennies...

We need obi wan kenobi - he's our only hope LOL

But maybe a lot of money to someone that works at an internet cafe or is not "well off!"

So, Patrick has known this name for some time and has not disclosed it?

Did he tell Godfather Peter R?

Is the name caught on tape?

this new 'episode' is just plain nuts.

did Mos threaten Patrick with the "arrest" last week because he knew Patrick knew the name?

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

Great point, and also remember that Patrick said he can "be quiet also" or something to that effect. One other thing, if Patrick new Joran for a long time that might explain why Joran said he trusts him just like he does "Duary". At the time, people were questioning why if Joran only met Patrick would he become so attached to him to make such a statement. That statement now makes perfect sense, if the relationship goes back years.

How do you think Paulus' composure is these days?

(1) Scared, knowing that it may be a matter of time before the game is over...

OR

(2) Calm, cool, and collected knowing that nothing will happen in the end...

I dont think mos knew about the tele aruba recording then

Still catching up from about 3 threads ago... but I haven't seen the point made yet...

1. The Persistence cannot remain in an area where there is a threat of impending hostilities.

2. The Vice-President of the United States does not often travel to Aruba, nor does he travel anywhere unless there are matters of great importance to be resolved.

What may be about to happen down there in Aruba and Venezuela is just what we have been hoping for... that retribution comes from a different quarter than where we think.

I for one beleive today is the tipping point in this case.

 ::MonkeyShocked::

I believe if Patrick van der Eem is going to talk ... he should reveal the truth and ... refrain from insinuations.  His relationship with Joran van der Sloot should have taught him that the VDS' have ways of dealing with those who have the ability to implication them in the events of that morning when Natalee Holloway went missing.

Janet

LOL. Have you read this thread yet???


 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

Mos could have found out before the recording.

GB....Kudos to you for bringing this subject up at your Staff meeting!...and the Biggest Bunch of Monkey Bananas I can carry for getting the ok to follow up on some research!!!

((((((((((Hugs to GB))))))))))))))

Destiny

Didn't the taping happen after Mos was bellowing for Patrick and not before?

I am not ready to throw Patrick under the bus yet.  I'll wait until things are clearer and then decide.  If he does need to be thrown under the bus, I'm driving!

We will all just have to wait together, we've done it before.  Each time we get a little closer to the truth.

Let's assume the worst, that Joran told Patrick who "disposed" of the body, this would have occured after the car taping and the "Daury" comment and that Patrick was going to use this information to bribe the VDS' and become a millionaire. If all this were true why would Patrick open his mouth to some interviewer he just met and say "I know who threw her in the ocean?" That would be stupid and doesn't make sense in this scenario, which means that another scenario is likely unfolding.

If he does know, I believe he is holding back that name in accordance with "some kind" of investigation going on here.

I am not sure wbat is worse, him knowiing or not knowing.
                         ::MonkeyNoNo::

I used to be a trusting, optimistic, naive american
and am not much for speculation but, what if....
When Patrick went to the authorities before Peter (I read that here right?) about Joran and we heard he was told no dice (but MOS said to take it to PDV and make it look undercover sans his knowledge) and this was an elaborate set-up with Joran ahead of time knowing his role to get off the hook (he said he wasn't mad at Patrick) , make Patrick $ (book deal and perhaps $$$ from Paulus income stream) and pacify the Americans so Aruba could get back to business, no harm no foul
no one is that evil are they?

I have no facts just unease over all this, I think Patrick & Peter are good guys...so far

Does anyone know how much time lapsed between the last taping in the car and Peter's show?  Maybe Patrick did some taping of his own - I would imagine he had some kind of idea what kind of $$$$ he could make..

There are three scenarios:

1. The quote is not correct and Patrick never said that.

2. He lied to the interviewer and it is not true.

3. He said it to the interviewer and it is true.

4. He said it to the interviewer and he believes it to be true,m but, it in fact is not true, meaning Joran lied to him.

One of these four scenarios is the truth of the matter. If Patrick lied the question then is why? What is the motive for doing so? If he is telling the truth and it is indeed true, why would you tell such crucial information to a reporter, regardless whether you knew you were being recorded or not?

Either way, Patrick has some explaining to do!

Self edit: There are FOUR scenarios:

Patrick went to dutch authorities, but they didn't not pass this on to Mos.
because Patrick 'made some demands' the dutch authorities couldn't work with.
dutch justice minister said errors were made in not passing Patrick on to aruban authorities.

Probably that Urine needed some gambling money...would say anything to obtain if from Peter....JMOO

Good morning... that's an oxymoron referring to this, I'm with you.  First we want Natalee back, answers would be a bonus.

I have always thought that there would be ample opportunity to secret record Joran outside of the car. When the tape came out I believe Peter mentioned that the car was the place that Joran felt safe and would open up. Well, I can imagine a house would be far easier to setup than a car in terms of place to hide gear and that dicsussions between them would be no different whether they occured in a car or a home.

I always thought that comment from Peter was odd.

thank you for the information... we have to keep questioning (even the "good guys")

i wonder how high the chances are Bram Mosko is doing the civil case now.
yesterday it was 90% chance.

but if all this Patrick stuff is true, he could also sue Patrick for shock damage.

Beth is getting therapy already Bram said yesterday.

also wonder if Beth is still in the netherlands, i hope she is back home.
few days ago they all sat on that sofa.
(http://i28.tinypic.com/2mruqfd.png)

again, i'll wait for peter r. response to this to make an opinion on this news.

I don't think so....not the way *they* operate...Patrick would just be made dead...

Am I supposed to say "naner, naner, naner, I waas fiiiirst?"  Was on page10.LOL  This page is so funny starting with the ones after mine.  I have been laughing.  You all are sooo funny.   I need to feel there is something funny in this world.  Yeah, where is a good volcano when you need one.  Every one of them so far is funny.       jackb

After piecing this together based on the limited information we haveit seems that another investigation is taking place. At this point, until we hear more, it is the most logical conclusion. It still doesn't explain why Patrick would leak such info to the Aruban interviewer.

The way this all is coming out does not fit into any of the scenarios very well.

I think Patrick is trying to *make* solve the whole case to collect the reward....hence the *I'll be a millionaire* quote from the secret tape....JMOO

If what is true?

Morning!
   ::MonkeyCool::

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: Ain't it so!

This avatar reminds me of the old saying:  "talk to my azz; I'm listening."
It seems that when I see this, someone is trying to say something.  It is a pretty azz, but a bit distracting.  LOL

Excuse me for not getting out much but how much is 2000 euro in USD? 
It doesn't sound like very much to keep someone quiet.
TY

All of a sudden the silence is deafening.  ::MonkeyLaugh:: I want to hear from DeVries.

Sorry if this has been posted, I have a million things going on at once here.

Holloway guests fail to inspire talk show

Holloway guests fail to inspire talk show
Thursday 06 March 2008

Despite extensive publicity, Wednesday night’s Jensen television talk show delivered no new information in the affair surrounding the disappearance of US teenager Natalee Holloway.

Presenter Robert Jensen boasted repeatedly how amazing it was that four key players in the case were guests on the show but the content of their discussions were tame.

Holloway’s mother repeated several times that her co-guests - crime reporter Peter R de Vries and his accomplice Patrick van der Eem - were her ‘heroes’ for getting Joran van der Sloot to confess that that he had been with Natalee when she died.

The fourth guest, lawyer Bram Moszkowicz, appeared for no more than a few minutes to tell the audience he would be back next week.

The only exciting moment was when Jensen called Van der Sloot on Eem’s mobile phone - but the key player in the affair hung up on him.
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/03/holloway_guests_fail_to_inspir.php

that patrick knows who threw natalee in the ocean and got money from joran to stay silent about that.

Good Morning to you, Monkeys! I have to admit all of this about Patrick has taken me by surprise. Would love some kind of reaction from Peter.

Now, about the tennis shoe/s....
Who is the one bringing up the tennis shoes all the time?  Joran?
Who was the first to describe the shoes? Joran?
Who seems to lie all of the time? Could it be Joran?
Why would I think he was ever wearing KSwiss tennis shoes on the beach? Because Joran said so?
He was probably wearing flipflops or something else. JMO.  ::MonkeyCool::

WTF, do they want them to get up there and do cartwheels and other stupid human tricks!  Geeeeze!

  You a ugly monkey.  But as long as you is a monkey, that be(s) ok.     jackb