Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

glad you brought up the majorwager forum again. i was looking through that this afternoon and saw that acw posted that paulus and the judge were golfing buddies. i don't remember that ever coming out.

http://www.majorwager.com/forums/mess-hall/44196-anyone-else-following-natalee-holloway-case-6.html (http://www.majorwager.com/forums/mess-hall/44196-anyone-else-following-natalee-holloway-case-6.html)

Sure would be nice if we could confirm this is fact and this is the same reality at BNH!

posts from the Major Wager forum:

07-16-2005, 01:31 AM
shoebox
Two Star General Join Date: Aug 2000


Clev, I was offered a job there in 1999, the guy is from Chicago and his 1st name is Mike, I wont put the last name on here. I thought he was a decent guy but I never took the offer, I believe Reality knows him well. He owns the casino itself which is totally seperate from the Holiday Inn(Excelsior Casino), it has a walk up sportsbook and racebook, Poker Room and all the table games, I always stay there when i go.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by Clevfan at the Major Wager forum:

07-03-2005, 03:30 AM
clevfan
Staff Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 17,627


these are suspect sites:

www.mrpinkproductions.com

www.guide2paradise.com


both are run by a guy orginally from michigan by the name of paul brough. he is good friends with lorenzo van rijn

old sites are: www.getlegalhookers.com and www.metronightlife.com


http://tinyurl.com/29uuob
======================================

That doesn't suprise me Mojo..I bet PVDS knew Nit Wit and Smit fairly well. PVDS was a replacement Judge and his connections are pretty deep in the OM and the Govt of Aruba.

What is curious to me was if he just learned he was a failure on May 29th 2005 after returning from Holland. Anita was away and he appears to be getting hammered and gambling at the casino. Just how deep is his involvement? Why would Michael Posner be so angry releasing the casino tapes? Joran told that reporter in Holland that he and Natalee went inside the house for a while after the bar and Deepak stated that PVDS was not sleeping in his bedroom..Are they clues to what happened? Did they spend a hour at the VDS house and leave?

Was the plan to drop her off at the beach at 3AM when something horrible happened? Just what is Mr.Pinks and Lorenzo Van Rijn's involvement if any? That would be quite interesting if it was true they are good friends. Also interesting if this Reality is the same one at BNH and is connected to Michael Posner.

vms ... I see you lurking.

"The Last Boleyn Girl" was an excellent movie.  IMO.

 ::MonkeyDance::

Thanks for forewarning me regarding the title.  I had anticipated a spy thriller with a German location when I had misunderstood from my friend with a Scotish accent that the title of the movie was "The Berlin Girl".

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Anyways the lesson in British history ... my heritage ... was very interesting.

Janet

Thanks, Janet! I am glad you enjoyed it.

Now I have to decide theater or DVD.  :lol:

The spactaculor scenery along dictates that viewing at least once at the theater is where it is at.

Janet.

Did Deepak stated that PvdS was not sleeping in his bedroom?

Hi Monkey's,
  Just got caught up reading.Watched the video link and listened to Dave and Beth.Seem's Dave thinks it all went down at the Sloots house..Bless his heart and Beth's heart too..One thing I've always wondered about and that is why Dave had to find out from his son that Natalee was missing.I wonder why Beth or Jug didn't call him immediatly..I don't know,just sad...

Hi Monkey's,
  Just got caught up reading.Watched the video link and listened to Dave and Beth.Seem's Dave thinks it all went down at the Sloots house..Bless his heart and Beth's heart too..One thing I've always wondered about and that is why Dave had to find out from his son that Natalee was missing.I wonder why Beth or Jug didn't call him immediatly..I don't know,just sad...

6/16/05

To your question whether I can state anything about the case of the missing girl, I can say the following. Joran had made up the story that there were traces of blood in my car. My car was ripped open by the police and one could see that was this was a lie. Now he is telling a story about how the police should look into it that I always have money. I have a job and get an allowance from my parents. I am not Joran who steals money from his parents. And I am of the opinion that, that this is not the issue at this moment. If you want to find out what happened to the girl and where she is, you have to be with Joran van der SLOOT Joran van der SLOOT is a sick person, he has admitted that he is in the care of a psychologist and that he hits his brother. If the police want more information about Natalee, then you have to be with Joran. He was the last person with the girl, that I can guarantee

*******,
I do believe that Walter Brentt Posner is Michael's son.
I think the article that you posted states that he
has no children with his current wife..though not clearly stated.

Michael Posner is a businessman and casino owner in Aruba. Posner is the owner of the Excelsior, Holiday Inn and Grand Holiday Casinos.

On September 20 2005, MSNBCtelevision news journalist Rita Cosby interviewed an FBI agent who identified Posner as a convicted felon with alleged organized crime ties. Posner's casino, the Excelsior, has been implicated in the Natalee Holloway disappearance. He is currently married with no children to Robin Abergel.

.

Weird. Johan555 writes strange things on Fok in the first Nathalee rebound chapter.::MonkeyCool::

That doesn't suprise me Mojo..I bet PVDS knew Nit Wit and Smit fairly well. PVDS was a replacement Judge and his connections are pretty deep in the OM and the Govt of Aruba.

What is curious to me was if he just learned he was a failure on May 29th 2005 after returning from Holland. Anita was away and he appears to be getting hammered and gambling at the casino. Just how deep is his involvement? Why would Michael Posner be so angry releasing the casino tapes? Joran told that reporter in Holland that he and Natalee went inside the house for a while after the bar and Deepak stated that PVDS was not sleeping in his bedroom..Are they clues to what happened? Did they spend a hour at the VDS house and leave?

Was the plan to drop her off at the beach at 3AM when something horrible happened? Just what is Mr.Pinks and Lorenzo Van Rijn's involvement if any? That would be quite interesting if it was true they are good friends. Also interesting if this Reality is the same one at BNH and is connected to Michael Posner.

.

Weird. Johan555 writes strange things on Fok in the first Nathalee rebound chapter.::MonkeyCool::

katrien, what kind of strange things?  or give us a link.  lol, don't make us come over there, child.
dennisintn

Tot ... at this point Beth knew NOTHING other than what her mother's instinct told her ... SOMETHING WAS TERRIBLY WRONG ... HER DAUGHTER HAD MISSED THE FLIGHT HOME!

Janet.

++++++++++

Dave Holloway
Corruption in Paradise

Page 6
On Monday, May 30, Natalee's trip came to an end, and she was due to fly home to Alabama.  But late in the afternoon, I received a call from Matt telling me that Natalee had missed her flight and that Beth was getting on a plane to Aruba.  She had told him to call me, but had no details yet.   I attempted to get in touch with Beth.  No answer.  I googled hotels in Aruba and found a number for the Holiday Inn where the kids had been staying.  I called and was able to talk to one of the trip chaperones who had stayed behind in Natalee's room.  He filled me in about Natalee missing her flight.  At the time, there was not much to go on.

Monday, March 10, 2008 14:15
Netherlands gets first book Van der Eem

translated link....

http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://www.elsevier.nl/nieuws/laatste_24_uur/artikel/asp/artnr/196514/index.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3DPoentje%2BCastro%2B-Fidel%26start%3D30%26num%3D30%26hl%3Den%26newwindow%3D1%26sa%3DN

i didn't surprise me on the one hand, but i was surprised it never really came out. also, earlier you posted something about the dog incident and it mentioned a merryweather. i suspect this may be sidney merryweather. similar age, wonder if we can somehow verify the dog thing.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=107036794 (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=107036794)

she was still in love with Joran  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Well the entire Van Der Sloot and Hugen Family has been quiet,we don't even know which ones are paul's brothers or why him and his son are so protected. They know the names of all of Dave's kids,every MB student and everything about Natalee and her Family. Very little has come out for obvious reasons as we know years ago Van Der Straten use to work for PVDS,the more thats unraveled the more disgusted we will all be by how well he knows everyone that was involved. It is probably true with the two Judges Wit and Smit as well. It would not suprise me if other Fathers of the pimps influenced the Investigation in Aruba also.

Peter De Vries also reported about Joran killing his own dog in his first show and I take it as a fact. He killed his own pet dumped it in the Moko pond and tried to blame it on this kid. However there probably is no police record of that thanks to Van Der Straten and Pauls friends in the ALE. We saw a similar thing from the reports of the 3 girls who said they were drugged and assaulted by Joran,they went to the police and nothing was done. They came forward again after Natalee dissapeared but then  stepped back after Dennis Jacobs talked to them. When the KLPD looked into this,her Psychiatrist said that she was drugged and abused by Joran,but Dennis Jacobs said she was not willing to come forward because she was still in love with Joran  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Posted by Lazlo at RU:

Uitgeverij Foreign Media Books laat maandag weten dat 'Overboord. Hoe ik Joran van der Sloot aan het praten kreeg' rond 25 juni verschijnt.

Publisher Foreign Media Books announced Monday that 'Overboard. How I got Joran van der Sloot to talk' will be published June 25.

http://www.planet.nl/planet/show/id=62967/contentid=917917/sc=5e16df

or dutch
http://www.elsevier.nl/nieuws/laatste_24_uur/artikel/asp/artnr/196514/index.html

I won't be buying...Until it reads,"How I brought down the corruption in Aruba and made the guilty pay", I want none of it....

I must with Dave that the Sloot residence played an important role.  What's the consensus here...

To what extent was the VDS residence used in NH's dissapearance?

I must with Dave that the Sloot residence played an important role.  What's the consensus here...

To what extent was the VDS residence used in NH's dissapearance?

Arubagirl first told us about Joran killing his dog.  The Merrywether mother had told
Arubagirl's mother the story.  Some sort of relative as I recall.  Hubie Merrywether was
the father of the boy.

I must with Dave that the Sloot residence played an important role.  What's the consensus here...

To what extent was the VDS residence used in NH's dissapearance?

Hard to say as to what extent OE..But since Karin Janssen,Judge Wit and Gerald Dompig are all caught lying why they blocked the search of the home and refused to let it be searched..One has to wonder why? They had a full search warrant 16 days after Natalee dissapeared but still blocked the search the day of the search..Why would they do that? Why would the Judge say they never asked to search that property anymore then Jorans Apt but the Chief Prosecuter and Deputy commissioner say they were denied,they said they were also denied when Paul Van Der Sloot was arrested for Pre-Meditated Murder and Kidnapping..Why would the Judge say Dompig obstructed Justice and didn't want that house searched so PVDS could have his privacy? Since when do Murder and Kidnapping suspects get immunity from having there house searched? We know they tried to frame two innocent men and they immediately searched there house! What was Peter R reporting that something happened in the garden in 2006? Yet in 2007 that is exactly where the KLPD forensic team focused there search on.

The Persistence is completing its last leg of the journey home.  It should arrive some time on Wed.  Incredibly, the Persistence never saw anything over 4ft seas the entire way from Aruba to Mexico with 2kt currents and the wind at its stern - it made awesome time.  It had to spend a few days in Mexico where it refueled until the Gulf calmed down, but it's good to go now.  Thanks for all the prayers. 

Thats great news OE  ::MonkeyDance:: I hope someone gets the chance to check out those targets that you all worked so hard to locate! It would be terrible to always wonder if you found her but just never got the chance to make that dive to locate her and bring her home....Where she belongs...

Interesting to look at the islands yearbooks..Such a small class but yet so many with the same last name..Kock,Arendsz,Arends,Maduro..Croes..and yes Wever  ::MonkeyWink::

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/1983-v21.jpg)

Question:
Why would multiple legal professionals jeopardize their careers, livelihood, and freedom to cover for the VDSs?

-All very close friends?
- PvdS has dirt on them all and willing to use it as leverage?
- Blackmail?
 

I must with Dave that the Sloot residence played an important role.  What's the consensus here...

To what extent was the VDS residence used in NH's dissapearance?

Anyone else think its weird that in the PRDV tapes joran says as to why he called Daury:

Then I panicked.
I think, nobody even knows I am out of the house, I just left the house, you know, so I'm thinking, what do I have to do? What do I have to do?

But the next day as Beth and company went to the Sloot house at 2.00 or 3.00 am, he was not in his appartement again but gambling at the Windham

Hard to believe that seemingly structural behaviour would make him panic

Thats great news OE  ::MonkeyDance:: I hope someone gets the chance to check out those targets that you all worked so hard to locate! It would be terrible to always wonder if you found her but just never got the chance to make that dive to locate her and bring her home....Where she belongs...

Hi Ocean,good to see you all made it back home safe.

Considering that the van der sloots decided it was a GOOD thing to give their wayward,sicko,out of control son a line of credit at the casinos and carlos&Charlies bar,and his own little private party pad at the age of 15.....I'd say joran used his little apartment for sex parties,and that he took Natalee there(like he took all of his girls there,with his parents approval),Natalee was raped and over drugged and died there.Then they possibly moved her around the dirty little island a couple of times then out to sea.

...add to the mix the credo that NOTHING should mar the reputation of Aruba as an "idyllic" tourist destination......and you have legals, politicos, and common folks alike willing to do anything it takes to maintain that image.

This is WAY off topic but I just received this in an e-mail and just have to share it with all of you monkeys.

If you have the time, watch the whole thing, it is really something....

http://video.stumbleupon.com/#p=ithct48cqw

Hi Ocean,good to see you all made it back home safe.

Considering that the van der sloots decided it was a GOOD thing to give their wayward,sicko,out of control son a line of credit at the casinos and carlos&Charlies bar,and his own little private party pad at the age of 15.....I'd say joran used his little apartment for sex parties,and that he took Natalee there(like he took all of his girls there,with his parents approval),Natalee was raped and over drugged and died there.Then they possibly moved her around the dirty little island a couple of times then out to sea.

Question:
Why would multiple legal professionals jeopardize their careers, livelihood, and freedom to cover for the VDSs?

-All very close friends?
- PvdS has dirt on them all and willing to use it as leverage?
- Blackmail?
 

Perhaps I can clarify things a bit.  The press always seems to word things so they sound worse than they are. 

The search was not flat out "called-off".  The side scan sonar search is complete.  We covered all of the planned area (and other non-planned areas) with 200% coverage.  This means every inch of seabed was covered twice on average over about 50 sq miles. Many sonar targets were identified and explored with the first round of ROV dives between Dec 29th to about the 7th of January.  What has not been completed is the ROV dives on sonar targets found after about the 2nd week of January through the end of the sonar search.  These targets (as well as the first dive series picks) were picked under the assumption that any type of containment of human remains should be explored, rather than just fish traps.  This method makes no guesses as to what we "know" or "don't know" about the case, rather it leaves no stone unturned. Once adequate funding is procured a dedicated ROV vessel and crew will complete the dives.  A ROV boat is more efficient and economical at conducting the ROV dives than the Persistence with it's extra equipment and personnel.
In this case it's best to return to the site with exactly the right equipment to do the job.  The remotely operated vehicle (ROV) that is eventually sent to Aruba will be better suited for the deepest dive sites.  It will also come equipped with better recovery capabilities if necessary.  For working in the deepest portions of the search area, the SeaEye Falcon ROV had potentially insufficient tether and therefore may not have been able to reach the deepest targets. 
I look at this as a retreat.  By retreat, I mean a temporary strategic withdrawal from battle, work, or operations. It is best to return home to re-tool, plan, and procure funding rather than pressing forward beyond financial, technical, and physical limits.

I won't be buying...Until it reads,"How I brought down the corruption in Aruba and made the guilty pay", I want none of it....

Short and to the point.  Natalee was raped and murdered at the Sloots.

That is interesting.Lot of them look unhappy,mainly the girls.Wonder if we can find one with Lorenzo in it?

Question:
Why would multiple legal professionals jeopardize their careers, livelihood, and freedom to cover for the VDSs?

-All very close friends?
- PvdS has dirt on them all and willing to use it as leverage?
- Blackmail?
 

I must with Dave that the Sloot residence played an important role.  What's the consensus here...

To what extent was the VDS residence used in NH's dissapearance?

Tot ... I am with ya.

The implication of Peter Devries' words dictates that you and I will not be buying Patrick van der Eem's book any time soon.  Devries uphold Hans Mos and ... the Natalee Holloway investigative team.

Janet

++++++++++++


Peter Devries
On the Record w/ Greta
February 8, 2008

DE VRIES: Well, the Dutch police is very busy with the investigation. That's what I understood. And they are looking for this guy, whoever it may be.

VAN SUSTEREN: Now, do you have confidence in the Dutch police and the Aruba police in terms of this investigation?

DE VRIES: Yes. I met several guys from the team. I spoke to Hans Mos, the head prosecutor, and I'm confident, quite confident, that they will solve this case finally.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,329847,00.html

All very close friends.  Dutch elitists. Cannot associate with anyone beneath them. Must believe whatever comes from their mouths.  Mind-set of the Dutch/Aruban.  Must never go against one of your own when it is an American involved.  Nothing more than the U.S. has had thrown at us for years.  We are the Cowboys, they are the wronged party.

The Persistence is completing its last leg of the journey home.  It should arrive some time on Wed.  Incredibly, the Persistence never saw anything over 4ft seas the entire way from Aruba to Mexico with 2kt currents and the wind at its stern - it made awesome time.  It had to spend a few days in Mexico where it refueled until the Gulf calmed down, but it's good to go now.  Thanks for all the prayers. 

I must with Dave that the Sloot residence played an important role.  What's the consensus here...

To what extent was the VDS residence used in NH's dissapearance?

I wonder if this is Val van der sloot......

http://www.aruba.com/forum/f7/i-born-aruba-1954-a-27399/index2.html

I'd go so far as to say she was in the Kalpoe trunk during the confrontation at the Sloot residence.

I believe they were there.  In Greta's interview with Joran he told her they stopped by his house, but did not get out of the car.  Deepak and Satish have never stated this to be true.  Both Kalpoes said they drove by the lighthouse, not Joran's house.

It is during this point where Joran claims they sat in the car and talked outside of the Van Der Sloot property. This is the place where Joran claims that Natalee made negative comments about the Kalpoes and her own mother.  Since Deepak told ALE that he never heard Natalee make any of those comments you have to figure this is something Joran made up in his own mind.  Sitting 'outside' his home talking to Natalee??  This is the place where Joran wants to think of Natalee as a bad person.  imo

Karma ... the following segment was taken from the New York lawsuit brought again Paulus and Joran van der Sloot by Beth Twitty and Dave Holloway. 

Janet

++++++++++++

HELEN LEJUEZ - ARUBAN FAMILY ATTORNEY

Affidavid of C. Helen Lejuez
<snipped>

5. ... Miss Doe told me that she was coming forward at that time because she had had an experience that might be similar to Natalee's experience.

6. Miss Doe informed me that, one evening during early in 2005, she met Joran van der Sloot at Carlos'n Charlie's nightclub in Aruba.

7. Miss Doe told me that, over the course of the night, Joran van der Sloot gave her several alcoholic beverages. Miss Doe further stated that she believes that Joran van der Sloot placed some kind of narcotic substance in one of her drinks. The reason she believes she was drugged is that her level of intoxication was greatly disportionate to the amount of alcohol that she consumed.

8. Later that night, according to Miss Doe, Joran Van der Sloot brought Miss Doe back to his apartment, adjacent to his parent's house.

9. Miss Doe then told me that she was sexually assaulted by Joran van der Sloot as she faded in and out of conciousness, At no time did Miss Doe consent to any sexual contact with Joran van der Sloot.

10. Miss Doe advised me that, shortly after she was sexually assaulted by Joran van der Sloot, she learned that two other young women, ages 16 and 17, suffered attacks by Joran van der Sloot under similar circumstances.  
11. Miss Doe told me that, in the aftermath of Joran van der Sloot's attack on Miss Doe, she was threatened and intimidated by Joran van der Sloot, his friends and others. She had been terrified to come forward and tell her story in Aruba.


Jossy Mansur
'Scarborough Country'
August 26, 2005

DANIELS:  It definitely smells that way.  You know, if you take the prosecution‘s statement at its face, we are talking on a whole new level, the charges here.  We are talking about drugs.  We are talking about rape and we are talking about rape of many different people.  There are four guys now in custody, four best friends.  What does that tell you?
 
MANSUR:  Well, what it tells me is that, really, these four guys are friends.  They belong to the same group, these party boys that go out and prey on young, unsuspected girls or other kinds of girls also that are out to have a good time, not suspecting what they‘re in for with these predators around.

And they are—they not only appear in photographs together, but I understand that Freddy lives very near to the Joran house.  So, there is a bond between them.  There is a group that they call themselves the pimps, in which all of these participate.

I'd go so far as to say she was in the Kalpoe trunk during the confrontation at the Sloot residence.

I stumbled onto a couple of years at that school but well before Lorenzo's time  ::MonkeyWink:: No one real important in the yearbooks except Robert Wever,you may see a couple of ministers..But no one tied into this case that I know of.

http://www.colegiopariba.freeservers.com/index.html

It's interesting to me how the water offshore Aruba is rather allegorical of the Island's condition. 

Near the beach the ocean is shallow, full of life, vibrant - so full of color and character, quiescent, and safe.  It's absolutely beautiful, promising, and inviting.  The water is refreshing, clean, and good.

Offshore, the water becomes suddenly deep, dark and cold.  You get out of the lee of the island and the sea becomes volatile and unforgiving.  It'll be calm one minute, and a torrent the next.  It is a deceptive environment which looks inviting but only seeks to devour.  A large portion of the area literally means "don't go there". If you are unfamiliar with the nature of the environment, you won't realize the 4kt current silently whisking you farther into the open ocean. The hidden dangers are evident in the wrecks which have fallen as victims of the turmoil.

If only these conditions were unique to Aruba. 

De Vries said his ALE sources told him the same thing in 2006,he said then that they don't think they ever went to the Beach but went to the VDS house and something happened by the garden. If you look at all the early NE articles they say there ALE source thinks she was drugged and taken back to the house. Here we are in 2008,they have 24 detectives on the case,Mos is blaming Natalee's Family and the American Media but yet we were closer to solving this on June 10th 2005  ::MonkeyConfused::

Thank you *******.
While it's slow around here I'm going to see if I can find out more info on Lorenzo.Also,does anyone know what Freddy's parents names are?What they do on aruba?

Thank you Janet.
The pimps of aruba live on it seems,I wonder if they were taught this game by their Daddy's.

To me you are describing Aruba and the merry-go-round this has been for Beth and Dave.  ::MonkeyWaa::

Perhaps I can clarify things a bit.  The press always seems to word things so they sound worse than they are. 

The search was not flat out "called-off".  The side scan sonar search is complete.  We covered all of the planned area (and other non-planned areas) with 200% coverage.  This means every inch of seabed was covered twice on average over about 50 sq miles. Many sonar targets were identified and explored with the first round of ROV dives between Dec 29th to about the 7th of January.  What has not been completed is the ROV dives on sonar targets found after about the 2nd week of January through the end of the sonar search.  These targets (as well as the first dive series picks) were picked under the assumption that any type of containment of human remains should be explored, rather than just fish traps.  This method makes no guesses as to what we "know" or "don't know" about the case, rather it leaves no stone unturned. Once adequate funding is procured a dedicated ROV vessel and crew will complete the dives.  A ROV boat is more efficient and economical at conducting the ROV dives than the Persistence with it's extra equipment and personnel.
In this case it's best to return to the site with exactly the right equipment to do the job.  The remotely operated vehicle (ROV) that is eventually sent to Aruba will be better suited for the deepest dive sites.  It will also come equipped with better recovery capabilities if necessary.  For working in the deepest portions of the search area, the SeaEye Falcon ROV had potentially insufficient tether and therefore may not have been able to reach the deepest targets. 
I look at this as a retreat.  By retreat, I mean a temporary strategic withdrawal from battle, work, or operations. It is best to return home to re-tool, plan, and procure funding rather than pressing forward beyond financial, technical, and physical limits.

wasn't it stated somewhere that joran introduced himself to natalee as a dutch student on vacation in aruba?
beth went to the holiday inn asking about a dutch man on vacation and was told that he was a local hanging out at the excelsior casino all the time

From greta's interview with him

VAN DER SLOOT: No, just between me and Natalee. We were speaking English to each other and I asked her if she wanted to go back to her hotel and that's when she said that she wanted to — she asked me if I -- if I had a big house or not and then — then she said — I said to her "Do you want to see my house?" And she's like "Yes, I want to go to your house."

how does this fit in if he first introduced himself as a tourist ?

wasn't it stated somewhere that joran introduced himself to natalee as a dutch student on vacation in aruba?
beth went to the holiday inn asking about a dutch man on vacation and was told that he was a local hanging out at the excelsior casino all the time

From greta's interview with him

VAN DER SLOOT: No, just between me and Natalee. We were speaking English to each other and I asked her if she wanted to go back to her hotel and that's when she said that she wanted to — she asked me if I -- if I had a big house or not and then — then she said — I said to her "Do you want to see my house?" And she's like "Yes, I want to go to your house."

how does this fit in if he first introduced himself as a tourist ?

Hi Monkey's,
  Just got caught up reading.Watched the video link and listened to Dave and Beth.Seem's Dave thinks it all went down at the Sloots house..Bless his heart and Beth's heart too..One thing I've always wondered about and that is why Dave had to find out from his son that Natalee was missing.I wonder why Beth or Jug didn't call him immediatly..I don't know,just sad...

Johan Va nderstratten should be arrested and put UNDER the jail.  Had he been doing the job he was supposed to do, that island would not be the mess it is.  As well many people, including NH would  be alive and many would not have been robbed, raped and abused.
    Jack Blue

I said this the other night (i am like Klaas "Nobody ever listens to me") but I believe this could have been an initiation into the pimps for the younger boys as this group would be moving on (except Satish who stil hasn't graduated from high school).

 

on drugs maybe, otherwise...  ::MonkeyNoNo:: in love with joran....who is she lilly munster? i wish devries would dig around on jacobs and van der stratten.

I agree Jack Blue, except I would add that Dennis Jacobs fat ass should be right on top of Vanderstraaten, with BOTH OF THEIR "disgrace to the field of law enforcement" asses UNDER THE JAIL!  I'm trying not to picture that, but that is what should be done.
 ::MonkeyCool::

Yep! You Got It!  ::MonkeyLaugh::

This is a bit off topic but I wanted to give everyone a heads up on one of Dana's guests tomorrow night on Scared Monkeys radio:

In an exclusive internet/satellite radio interview Dana Pretzer will have on The Dana Pretzer Show, Former Bolingbrook Police Sgt Drew Peterson. Joining Drew Peterson will be his his attorney Joel Brodsky.

This should be interesting. Don't miss this interview. One wife dead by what coroners are saying is drowning by homicide and another wife missing, Drew Peterson ... will be on Scared Monkeys radio ... tune in at 8pm EDT tomorrow night.

You got that right! Not only Hans but Rudy Croes,Wit and everyone else! They went on record as happy as could be..Don't feel bad Americans..Even though the case is closed and they are released as suspects..It can still be reopened if in the next 12 years if Major new evidence is found like Natalee's body,forensic evidence that we destroyed or if the ocean suddenly goes dry..The only ones they are Mad at is Joran for screwing up and anyone that tries to get the truth out of him.

Heck even Judge Wit came out of his closet after the case closed to defend himself,he said about the same thing that there is major suspicions,and some evidence,all you need is something major like forensic evidence or her body..Good luck with that! However he made the situation worse when he tried to point fingers at the OM for never asking to search more than Jorans little Apt and accused Dompig of Obstruction of Justice when defending his unbelievable rulings.

Natalee Holloway Underwater Search Crew Headed Home

The crew of the "Persistence" left Louisiana in November...headed to Aruba. They've been using sonar and underwater robots to search Aruba's ocean floor for Natalee Holloway since mid -December.

It's been an expensive process - a search like this costs about $50,000 a day, according to search supervisor Tim Trahan. After three months of searching - the search party is simply out of money, but they're not out of places to look for Natalee. Trahan says the crew has used sonar to photograph almost 1000 miles of Aruba's ocean floor. Underwater robots have dove down and inspected hundreds of suspicious objects. The crew still has 150 objects left to inspect.

The "Persistence" is due home around Wednesday, but the crew says their search isn't over - just delayed. They'll now concentrate on looking for money and trying to work their way back to Aruba and what they hope will be answers.

http://tinyurl.com/ynoxqd

Most likely bound together by their sorriness and bad habits and knowing scud on each other and appear more to be elite just for staying within the sorriness of the clan.  Sorry people seek their own level.  It probably has little to do with social standing.  It is just that most of the ones who know dirt on each other showed their habits within their own clubs and organizations and bind together out of fear of blackmail of each other.   Jack Blue

All very close friends.  Dutch elitists. Cannot associate with anyone beneath them. Must believe whatever comes from their mouths.  Mind-set of the Dutch/Aruban.  Must never go against one of your own when it is an American involved.  Nothing more than the U.S. has had thrown at us for years.  We are the Cowboys, they are the wronged party.

Can we call him with questions?  LOLOL   ::MonkeyHaHa:: 

VERY COOL!

This is a bit off topic but I wanted to give everyone a heads up on one of Dana's guests tomorrow night on Scared Monkeys radio:

In an exclusive internet/satellite radio interview Dana Pretzer will have on The Dana Pretzer Show, Former Bolingbrook Police Sgt Drew Peterson. Joining Drew Peterson will be his his attorney Joel Brodsky.

This should be interesting. Don't miss this interview. One wife dead by what coroners are saying is drowning by homicide and another wife missing, Drew Peterson ... will be on Scared Monkeys radio ... tune in at 8pm EDT tomorrow night.

This is a bit off topic but I wanted to give everyone a heads up on one of Dana's guests tomorrow night on Scared Monkeys radio:

In an exclusive internet/satellite radio interview Dana Pretzer will have on The Dana Pretzer Show, Former Bolingbrook Police Sgt Drew Peterson. Joining Drew Peterson will be his his attorney Joel Brodsky.

This should be interesting. Don't miss this interview. One wife dead by what coroners are saying is drowning by homicide and another wife missing, Drew Peterson ... will be on Scared Monkeys radio ... tune in at 8pm EDT tomorrow night.

wasn't it stated somewhere that joran introduced himself to natalee as a dutch student on vacation in aruba?
beth went to the holiday inn asking about a dutch man on vacation and was told that he was a local hanging out at the excelsior casino all the time

From greta's interview with him

VAN DER SLOOT: No, just between me and Natalee. We were speaking English to each other and I asked her if she wanted to go back to her hotel and that's when she said that she wanted to — she asked me if I -- if I had a big house or not and then — then she said — I said to her "Do you want to see my house?" And she's like "Yes, I want to go to your house."

how does this fit in if he first introduced himself as a tourist ?

 ::MonkeyEek:: AT the guests on Dana's show

 ::MonkeyEek:: At Klaas's post being edited  ::MonkeyWink::

De Vries said his ALE sources told him the same thing in 2006,he said then that they don't think they ever went to the Beach but went to the VDS house and something happened by the garden. If you look at all the early NE articles they say there ALE source thinks she was drugged and taken back to the house. Here we are in 2008,they have 24 detectives on the case,Mos is blaming Natalee's Family and the American Media but yet we were closer to solving this on June 10th 2005  ::MonkeyConfused::

The MOB involved in Casino's..Say it isn't so!!!!!!!!!  ::MonkeyNoNo:: I guess paying off people like Rudy Croes and the Aruban Govt was worth every penny for the Chicago Outfit..They don't have to worry about Gaming Commissions like the Mobsters out of Pennsylvania have to deal with.

Priest arrested on perjury charges in alleged mob case

# Story Highlights
# The Rev. Joseph Sica, 52, was arrested outside his home Wednesday
# He is an adviser to a resort owner who is subject of the grand jury probe
# Probe centers on whether owner gave false information about his alleged mob ties
# The priest told a grand jury that he had no relationship with the resort owner

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/02/grandjury.slots.ap/index.html?eref=rss_law

I think so too Jack. And to think one of the Aruban posters was adamant that VdS was so dedicated to justice. That was a bunch of BS, in my opinion.

I think that the Sloots laid back attitude towards their eldest came back to bite them in the buttocks. Party at Sloots got out of hand. MHO but I could be wrong.

Johan Va nderstratten should be arrested and put UNDER the jail.  Had he been doing the job he was supposed to do, that island would not be the mess it is.  As well many people, including NH would  be alive and many would not have been robbed, raped and abused.
    Jack Blue

Something just isn't right about Patrick and this book,I feel like he isn't 100% honest about Joran and these 10 confessions..I sure hope this isn't some type of scam so Joran can buy that house in spain :(

I love the shirts, the monkeys, and the girl!

 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

Something just isn't right about Patrick and this book,I feel like he isn't 100% honest about Joran and these 10 confessions..I sure hope this isn't some type of scam so Joran can buy that house in spain :(

For now I am give Patrick Van der Eem the benefit of the doubt.  All information that discredits him that I'm aware of has come from Poentje Castro's show on Aruban television, and sketchy translations of it. 

Peter R. Devries has a very good reputation in his field as a crime reporter and as far as I know he has supported Patrick to this point.   Last week Peter, Patrick, Beth, and Bram Moszkowicz, all appeared on the Robert Jensen show. There was no indication of a problem with Patrick's status as a contributor attempting to resolve this case.  At this point I don't believe that Patrick has known Joran for years, or that his work with Peter was a set-up by him and Joran.  I don't believe that the whole story of what happened to Natalee was shown in the Dutch or the US showings of the recordings of Joran's conversations with Patrick.  However I do believe that many eyes were opened to the true nature of Joran Vandersloot through his words, his tone, and his body language.  In almost three years this had not been accomplished by anyone.  I know that Patrick has a criminal past, he's admitted that.  And frankly, that doesn't matter to me.  If indeed more was learned than was revealed and Devries was not aware of it, I think we will hear about it eventually.  Peter and Patrick had both met with Hans Mos before the airing of Castro's show, and as far as I know Patrick has not been requested to return for another interview since.  Mos may have already had the information revealed in the secret recording of Patrick by Castro. 

I am suspicious of Castro's motives in producing the show to begin with.  Has he done anything in an effort for justice in this case before he felt inclined to discredit the man who helped show the world Joran Vandersloot's true colors? 

With more information, my opinion may change regarding Patrick Van der Eem, but for now I still appreciate what he's done.  Just my opinion. 
 ::MonkeyCool::
 

Oh my, I meant to say that would stink. A lot about this case reeks. Where is the embarrassed monkey?

Someone just posted an observation at RU.  Moonshadows aka K Hemmingway hasn't posted at RU since Joran's confession.

I hear she's been busy banning people at the private hate site FOB2 ;)

Yeah me too. I also hear this Rene person that's writing this documertary about Beth is posting at FOB2 also, cause it's a private board. :wink:

No surprise there, lol  ::MonkeyHaHa::  They are regrouping to figure out their next campaign.

Very Thoughtful Post TM! I Agree!  ::MonkeyWink:: ::MonkeyCool::

Think I'm going to go play some games then watch the news.

GOODNIGHT ALL!

I love the shirts, the monkeys, and the girl!

 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

Thanks PC!  ::MonkeyCool::

YW TM! I ordered a Yellow Tee for Me and Hubby got a Khaki Cap! They are Really KOOL!  ::MonkeyDance::

I got a white t-shirt, Khaki cap  ::MonkeyHaHa:: , couldn't resist the tote, and added a SCARED MONKEYS MUG to take to work!!!!!  It's all Monkey Cool that's true!   ::MonkeyCool::  Yep, broke now!  ::MonkeyNoNo::  When's payday???? ::MonkeyHaHa::

Dutch Bloggers:

Just curious but why do people at FOK call RU the the blog in Ann Arbor Michigan? I have seen 3 times posters at FOK call it that...

I said this the other night (i am like Klaas "Nobody ever listens to me") but I believe this could have been an initiation into the pimps for the younger boys as this group would be moving on (except Satish who stil hasn't graduated from high school). 

In which topic? I searched a couple of topics but can't find it...
I'll have a look at it then.

MadMaster
Live from Amsterdam
maandag 10 maart 2008 @ 19:58

Ik heb af en toe de blog van NWO gevolgd en ik vond de meningen daar redelijk genuanceerd, tot voor kort.
Tsja, iemand dook daar op en acteerde als een olifant in een porseleinkast, dat gaat natuurlijk ook niet goed...

Ik heb vandaag diverse posts daar gelezen die ik van hier herken en waarvan ik zeg:
Het gevolg is nu, indirekt maar toch, dat de boel daar dicht gaat en er naar hier wordt verwezen voor het vervolg.

Eén citaat van de moderator daar:

http://forum.fok.nl/topic/1133186/8/25

Something just isn't right about Patrick and this book,I feel like he isn't 100% honest about Joran and these 10 confessions..I sure hope this isn't some type of scam so Joran can buy that house in spain :(

Why is this avatar showing it's azz?

All the tapes were given to Peter R. As far I understood the book is about how Patrick came in touch with Joran and all this.
There is no reason to doubt Patrick. He has a criminal past but went to prison for it. This is a long time ago.

Let him have his book. It is thanks to him that Joran made his confessions and Peter could broadcast it.

The book of Patrick van der Eem will be released in the Netherlands at the end of June & in the US it will be released in September.

I also don't doubt Patrick. The person he is helped him to get close to Joran and to get his confession. He does have a criminal past but has paid a price for it & seems to have learned from it (which is even more important I think).
And as far as the interview with Poentje goes; I think his quotes were taken out of context. Patrick is crucial for credibility in the confession. And if something was really up Peter R. de Vries would have been in every talkshow talking about it / defending him / would have written a column  etc. And he just gave a couple of quotes and that's it.

I'm afraid I don't understand...  ::MonkeyConfused::
I can't see anything about "Ann Arbor Michigan" in there.
They talk about Dutch blog NWO which is this one: http://www.nwo-info.nl/

GBMW I believe it was you who asked for the link to the Enquire article the other day.  If you look below you will see the link where little paperclip is in my post.

And you are trying to do what with your question.  Read the books.  Good try.  Not working.     Jack blue

i agree katrien and GMBW -- in the earliest days of this case all the dutch posters were saying peter de vries was the man to find an answer in this case. his first show came out and it was clear his thinking was along the lines of many of us, but no one seemed to be happy. the anti-holloway contingent poo poo'ed what he said and the anti-aruban contingent didn't think he went far enough.

with his latest show many have also been negative saying he said he'd solve the case. that's not what i read. he was very careful with his wording. he said he would solve the MYSTERY. i feel that he and patrick have done that. joran may have lied at some point in the confessions but i believe that he did not in the earlier ones and in fact, the MYSTERY was solved. the case is another matter. de vries himself has been very careful with what he has said and specificially the most recent statements that he had ideas about paulus' involvement but would not comment because he had no proof.  i think devries is still on the case and working albeit independently to support the aruba police bring this case to trial. he and patrick and the team did a great job, surely they got a scoop, but part of the reason it was a scoop was because it was so well executed and they were able to keep a lid on it.

All the tapes were given to Peter R. As far I understood the book is about how Patrick came in touch with Joran and all this.
There is no reason to doubt Patrick. He has a criminal past but went to prison for it. This is a long time ago.

Let him have his book. It is thanks to him that Joran made his confessions and Peter could broadcast it.

i agree katrien and GMBW -- in the earliest days of this case all the dutch posters were saying peter de vries was the man to find an answer in this case. his first show came out and it was clear his thinking was along the lines of many of us, but no one seemed to be happy. the anti-holloway contingent poo poo'ed what he said and the anti-aruban contingent didn't think he went far enough.

with his latest show many have also been negative saying he said he'd solve the case. that's not what i read. he was very careful with his wording. he said he would solve the MYSTERY. i feel that he and patrick have done that. joran may have lied at some point in the confessions but i believe that he did not in the earlier ones and in fact, the MYSTERY was solved. the case is another matter. de vries himself has been very careful with what he has said and specificially the most recent statements that he had ideas about paulus' involvement but would not comment because he had no proof.  i think devries is still on the case and working albeit independently to support the aruba police bring this case to trial. he and patrick and the team did a great job, surely they got a scoop, but part of the reason it was a scoop was because it was so well executed and they were able to keep a lid on it.

Interesting to look at the islands yearbooks..Such a small class but yet so many with the same last name..Kock,Arendsz,Arends,Maduro..Croes..and yes Wever  ::MonkeyWink::

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/1983-v21.jpg)

Ah yes, and Roland Peterson sticks out like a sore thumb in the pix. Now there is a familiar name ...wasn't he an Interrogator? He looks kinda 'sneaky' in the photo. Not to be trusted, even then ...imo...lol.

       

Why is this avatar showing it's azz?

I agree with you all, if it weren't for Peter DeVries the case would have been buried a long time ago. He has done more than all the prosecutors, investigators, police and judges the "system" enlisted in the entire history of the investigation into Natalee's disappearance. I firmly trust him and if he believes in Patrick I will go with that.

Holland needs to question the cover-up, that's where they are going to get the answers. Tha Van der Sloots are buttoned up and will never tell the truth. By unraveling the cover-up the Dutch investigators and prosecutors can go in through the back door to expose them. This is elementary investigative technique, they should realize it it and pursue it vigorously.

I have no faith in Hans Mos. He has ignored the cover-up to date and failed at every task he has performed. I believe he is conducting a low level cover-up of his own with Dop Kruimel in tow. Something about Aruba turns all of the asshole into criminals. Clean investigative, prosecutorial and judicial leadership from Holland is the only way we will get a prosecution in Natalee's case.

Something just isn't right about Patrick and this book,I feel like he isn't 100% honest about Joran and these 10 confessions..I sure hope this isn't some type of scam so Joran can buy that house in spain :(

The newly poured concrete right at the height of the disappearance is extremely suspect. I cannot imagine ANYONE suspected of murder, kidnapping, rape etc. in the U.S. being allowed to pour new concrete or having new furniture delivered to their home without being investigated and having the concrete dug up or the old furniture inspected and tested.  Guess I believe this is where it all started and it ended up at the beach with disposal in the ocean.

Once you start lying its hard to go back and lose face. This is probably even more true for people in higher positions.
So what other choice ist there but to maintain that the lies are the truth

The book of Patrick van der Eem will be released in the Netherlands at the end of June & in the US it will be released in September.

I also don't doubt Patrick. The person he is helped him to get close to Joran and to get his confession. He does have a criminal past but has paid a price for it & seems to have learned from it (which is even more important I think).
And as far as the interview with Poentje goes; I think his quotes were taken out of context. Patrick is crucial for credibility in the confession. And if something was really up Peter R. de Vries would have been in every talkshow talking about it / defending him / would have written a column  etc. And he just gave a couple of quotes and that's it.

Thank you *******.
While it's slow around here I'm going to see if I can find out more info on Lorenzo.Also,does anyone know what Freddy's parents names are?What they do on aruba?

Good Morning Monkeys!!!

I am sending out my thank you notes to those who participated with us on Sunday. I think most of you know I invited some of my scouts out. I wanted you to know why. Here is the thank you note I am sending the boys and why it meant so much to me that they participated:



What brave young men you are to come out as you did on Sunday and take a stand and let your voices be heard, I am so proud of you all. You took a stand for a girl who you know of, but never actually knew, that is even more incredible to me. There are people all across America that have also taken a stand for Natalee, and most of us never knew her personally either. You are now part of a very special group of people who have given their voices to a very important cause; Justice for Natalee.

At the beginning of every Cub Scout meeting, we stand and say the Pledge of Allegiance together. We state:

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America,
And to the Republic for which it stands:
One Nation under God, indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.

I just want to take a minute and tell you why I am so grateful for what you did Sunday, and why I feel it is so important. I think you understand most of the words of the Pledge of Allegiance, but there are three very important words at the end that we are pledging, that we are making a commitment to, and they are; Indivisible, Liberty, and Justice. So I looked those words up in the dictionary and here is what I found:

Indivisible: incapable of being divided.

Liberty: the power of choice. The right to live one’s life without threats, fear, or some kind of retaliation.

Justice: the right to be treated justly, fairly, and according to proper laws and principle.

Our Pledge of Allegiance ends with; for All. These principles we pledge to belong to EVERY AMERICAN regardless of race, religion, color, creed or any other criteria. So my understand is that essentially, we are saying that as Americans, we stand together and can not be divided, and that we are committed to Liberty, to live our lives without fear or threats, but if our Liberty is taken away, then we also are committed to Justice. That those who took away our Liberties must be held responsible according to the Law. If you break the law, then you must be held responsible for your actions.

Unfortunately, Aruba has not given Natalee Justice. Natalee's Liberties were taken away from her when she visited Aruba, and now as Americans, we are standing up to say, Natalee deserves Justice. The bad guys need to go to court and if found guilty, then they should be put in jail. This is what you stood up and said on Sunday when you were passing out the fliers. You were true to your Pledge of Allegiance, and for this, I am so very proud of you. You may be young men, but your voices are strong and you made a difference on Sunday and stood up for our beliefs, as Americans, and as Cub Scouts who Pledge Allegiance to our Flag.

Thank you so much my brave heroes!!!

Incredible Letter!!!

I'm sure that these Young Men...the Scouts, will have this day forever inscribed in their minds.  What a beautiful real life lesson for them in the true meaning of FREEDOM.

Wow!  I had to do a double take:

The Dana Pretzer Show On Scared Monkeys Radio - Listen Live TONIGHT At A Special Time, 8PM Eastern, 7PM Central, 5PM Pacific - Guests Include Drew Peterson, Joel Brodsky, Vanessa Leggett, Robin Sax, Pat Brown and Scared Monkey “Lisa”

Go Dana!

Go Lisa!

 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

oh crap!!! I just did a double take too!!! lol
Don't laugh at my voice you guys!!!

Way to go Lisa!!  And don't let her kid you guys.  She is an amazing young woman.  Smart funny pretty, and I was told by several gentleman at the wedding reception that she was "hot" lol  And coming from an ole lady myself she is "hot" lol. lol.  I'll tell ya sumpin else....she's a great momma!!  Her son is so sweet.

I luv ya snoopy!!! BUT CUT IT OUT!!! lol you are embarrassing me!!!!
I do have a great son though!!!

Thank you for doing an outstanding job at the St. Louis Show.  Great job everyone. 

Think I'm going to go play some games then watch the news.

GOODNIGHT ALL!

jack, why are you blue?  ::MonkeyCool::

My apologies for messing up the quotes JackB  ::MonkeyConfused:: I do that sometimes.

or you will?.....If the shoe fits.....also there are other questions that does not involve family business I am sure. 


You're way out of line jackb..It was a fair question and it's one that's asked by many people that don't care to go out and buy books to get the answer.This question was answered very nicely which you would have seen had you of scrolled down to see.Do not ever and I mean ever accuse me of anything,especially the act of manipulation.That is an evil accusation and I do not appreciate it one bit.When your pointing your finger at someone else,you've got three pointing right back at you.You might want to remember that!Like I said,it was a fair question and a fair answer followed..God Bless

Hi Guys! My internet's back and I just couldn't resist saying hello! I'll be lurking a while, because I'm WAY behind, but I hope it's ok if I mention this: Please check the Lounge (link in my signature line) for your Easter avatar, and leave a post if you aren't in the list. I'll get to you asap!  ::MonkeyWink::

Hi Guys! My internet's back and I just couldn't resist saying hello! I'll be lurking a while, because I'm WAY behind, but I hope it's ok if I mention this: Please check the Lounge (link in my signature line) for your Easter avatar, and leave a post if you aren't in the list. I'll get to you asap!  ::MonkeyWink::

Hi Guys! My internet's back and I just couldn't resist saying hello! I'll be lurking a while, because I'm WAY behind, but I hope it's ok if I mention this: Please check the Lounge (link in my signature line) for your Easter avatar, and leave a post if you aren't in the list. I'll get to you asap!  ::MonkeyWink::

Look who's that:

http://www.rtl.nl/shows/jensen/home/index.xml

Look who's that:

http://www.rtl.nl/shows/jensen/home/index.xml

Hi Katrien.. when is Bram coming on then?? I guess thursday.. tonight 2 farmers:P wednesday.. dr alban and then thursday Bram??

Good Morning Monkeys!!!

I am sending out my thank you notes to those who participated with us on Sunday. I think most of you know I invited some of my scouts out. I wanted you to know why. Here is the thank you note I am sending the boys and why it meant so much to me that they participated:



What brave young men you are to come out as you did on Sunday and take a stand and let your voices be heard, I am so proud of you all. You took a stand for a girl who you know of, but never actually knew, that is even more incredible to me. There are people all across America that have also taken a stand for Natalee, and most of us never knew her personally either. You are now part of a very special group of people who have given their voices to a very important cause; Justice for Natalee.

At the beginning of every Cub Scout meeting, we stand and say the Pledge of Allegiance together. We state:

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America,
And to the Republic for which it stands:
One Nation under God, indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.

I just want to take a minute and tell you why I am so grateful for what you did Sunday, and why I feel it is so important. I think you understand most of the words of the Pledge of Allegiance, but there are three very important words at the end that we are pledging, that we are making a commitment to, and they are; Indivisible, Liberty, and Justice. So I looked those words up in the dictionary and here is what I found:

Indivisible: incapable of being divided.

Liberty: the power of choice. The right to live one’s life without threats, fear, or some kind of retaliation.

Justice: the right to be treated justly, fairly, and according to proper laws and principle.

Our Pledge of Allegiance ends with; for All. These principles we pledge to belong to EVERY AMERICAN regardless of race, religion, color, creed or any other criteria. So my understand is that essentially, we are saying that as Americans, we stand together and can not be divided, and that we are committed to Liberty, to live our lives without fear or threats, but if our Liberty is taken away, then we also are committed to Justice. That those who took away our Liberties must be held responsible according to the Law. If you break the law, then you must be held responsible for your actions.

Unfortunately, Aruba has not given Natalee Justice. Natalee's Liberties were taken away from her when she visited Aruba, and now as Americans, we are standing up to say, Natalee deserves Justice. The bad guys need to go to court and if found guilty, then they should be put in jail. This is what you stood up and said on Sunday when you were passing out the fliers. You were true to your Pledge of Allegiance, and for this, I am so very proud of you. You may be young men, but your voices are strong and you made a difference on Sunday and stood up for our beliefs, as Americans, and as Cub Scouts who Pledge Allegiance to our Flag.

Thank you so much my brave heroes!!!

Klaas ... would you please fix the link in my post.

Thank you.

Janet

To IDSTLOU:
   Dear sweet Lady you are such a wonderful woman as well as a teacher of the young and as a leader in the Scouting program you have shown these young men that a community that is served by upstanding young men will continue to thrive and prosper , I am not just speaking of financial wealth but wealth in regards in our youth that will grow and be able to stand up responsibly for good verses evil .
  A very heartfelt thank you to you IDSTLOU and may I say again that I am proud to say that you are my friend as well as a fellow SM . (((( idstlou)))
  Jerry from Ohio

De Vries or Joran, who's responsible?

Q: Good now were' going to talk about Beth Twitty, Bram Moszkowics, you have contact with her, she's in Holland now to investigate with you if Joran vd Sloot can be juridisch , is it only about Joran or also other family members"

B: At the moment we're only concentrating on Mr. Joran vd Sloot.

Q: How did you get in contact with Mrs. Twitty?

B: Today or yesterday?

Q: No no, back then....Did you contact her?

B: No, that's a misconception, I never call people and ask them if they want to be my client.
I was called by a middleman, she then called me and asked me if I want to represent her, in the beginning she has asked around how she can find someone.

Q: And in the end, somehow she came in contact with you?

B: Yes, that's how it goes.

Q: Does she have an American lawyer?

B: Yes, there was talk about that.......but that's been blown away.

Q: Which judicial system is going to deal with Joran?

B: Either in Holland or Aruba. But that's the same.

Q: Why not in America? Is that not the country of the "claim culture"?

B: That I don't know for sure, I have still not talked to her American Lawyer, but I think that it has to do with the fact where all these awful things happened, and the law enforcement.

Q: We asked Mrs.Twitty what her motivation is, at you office, and this is what she said:

(Beth talking on tape):
We have to hope that the judicial system will kick in and that he will be prosecuted and put behind bars, but you know,  but if that does not happen, you know, we're looking at a civil action, I mean it's too late for Natalee and for us, but it's not too late for other young females that might be in his path.

Q: Lets talk about the different paths you might take. How big of a change, what's the percentage, that you can win, do you have if you begin the procedure?

B: If I confine myself with the civil procedure, I think a 85 - 90% chance that I will do it, but you have to be careful, you understand that also, look this lady can not take much more, so at the moment that you start investigating, as a lawyer you have to be sure, that there is a realistic change is,more than that, that it will succeed, because what's worse for her, if I start a civil case, and Mr. vd Sloot will win, we don't want that.

Q: So a civil case, we're talking about money........

B: No, it's not about money, this woman....................has.....................a civil case, it's that.......I will represent my client and .........we will take legal civil action, not criminal but a civil action.......against vd Sloot.
That means that I am investigating, with other people around me, also on Aruba, if it makes sense that we sue the man for an unlawful act.
Unlawful act, that means  that you did something that in society you should not have been done.
There are two anchors then, I will throw those out, one what we call "shock damage", it's a form of damage, if you experienced something terrible word speaks for itself, and if you have psychological damage, my client has that also, you can demand "shock damage".
That's one way, the other possibility I am looking at, which is also interesting,  is also based on an unlawful act,  if you take someone civil lawful, keep in mind that the man made a confession, because for me there's no question in my mind, that he made the confession a whole lot of different times in that car, and because he kept silent all this time, he committed an unlawful act against my client, because, as an example, my client has been pointed out as a material suspect, and because of this she's suffering.

Q: Because now she's a suspect herself in the disappearance of her daughter?

B: Yes! Just to say something.

Q: But how can Joran vd Sloot help this?

B: Can help what?

Q: How can Joran vd Sloot help, is it his fault that Mrs Twitty has been a suspect herself, for a little while at least?

B: Well that I can tell you, it's because he consistently has denied, until the moment he did confess, has it been possible that the eyes have been pointed towards my client......

Q: But it's his right, loose from the fact IF he did it, it is your right as a suspect, to say you are innocent.

B: That's why I am talking about a civil action with you, than he does not have the right to deny the charges.

Q: That's the difference, that's what you're talking about?

B: Well, in the civil........well lets say in the criminal case the man is a suspect he can keep still, in the civil case, because he's not talking, he has caused her (Mrs Twitty) damage. So here the obligation to keep quiet does not apply here.

Q: And does that only work if can start from the point......if the judge....that  the confessions that he made in the car to Patrick  v d Eem the right confessions are

B: Well look the whole premises, and there will stand or fall the whole case with, how do you appreciate the confession, what Joran said in the car, I, myself have no doubt about that, you can argue about that, I have colleagues they do not agree with me at all, they don't see a confession what so ever, I find that ridiculous,

That was Gerard Sprong, or Mrs Riet (?)

B: I'm not sure, but you can not persevere with dry eyes that vd Sloot 5 times in the car, yes shark, no shark,  he never took one word back, not the day after he had said it, that he never confessed, that's just nonsense.
Whatever this guy has said in the car, that's going to make an impression on the judge.

Q: Shock effect, I want to.......shock effect, damage, what's the shock?

B: That she, my client physiologically has been GEDEKOMPSEERD (I can't translate that word)     (HELP PLEASE)
and she now seeing a psychologist.......

Q: And then how can you say: That's because of you, Joran?

B: Well do you have someone else in mind? You have to connect the dots, and that's what my team and I are investigating right now, to begin with, how did she get "the shock"that can be diagnosed by a psychiatrist, that she's suffering,, I think that's possible, there's a connection, you don't have to be an Einstein to make the connection between the misery this woman has now, and the fact that her daughter has disappeared.

Q: That has to do with the fact, well the confession from Joran in Patric's car, and that's one of the things that will be seen as a confession......

B: That's very important .....

Q: because there is the suggestion that one of the things......this boy is a pathological liar, he just makes stuff up, 

B: I know that, I have heard that, but that's nonsense, because the man has never been investigated by a judge, leave alone a psychiatrist, that people are now screaming that he now, let's say, a habitual liar is, you can't take that serious.

Q: But then, how is it possible, you yourself say: it's a confession, but you can't take it serious, how is it possible then that this boy is still walking around free?

B: It's a very good question, and why that is, is because ....what was said after the De Vries's show?
We do not have enough to rearrest him, I find that remarkable, because if, in the past you had enough to lock him up, what they did on Aruba, WITHOUT  the confession, then I ask myself: What more do you want if they have what they had then, they said them self it's enough to lock him up, then you get a fantastic TV show, where they show the man made 5 confessions, that he said he did it, I think then if you count 1 + 1, that also on Aruba that's 2,

Q: But I think the judge-COMMESARIS, who back then questioned Joran vd Sloot, he came to the conclusion that Joran a big fat liar is, so you can't classify the confession in a car with a lot of camera's as a confession.

B: The  judge-COMMESARIS, should not hide behind that, because if that's the fact because that's not his job, he has to determine if there's enough evidence to pick the man up again, and the same judge found there was enough to pick him up without the confession, that's important what I say now, now he's saying that with the confession there's NOT enough evidence to pick him up again.
Now it's your turn again.......... ha ha

Q: My turn, but you can also say that the "shock damage" that Mrs. Twitty has now, is not because of Joran vd Sloot but De Vries.

B: That's a different question....

Q: It might be a different question, but it's an important one.

B: Look, at the moment my client knows what Peter de Vries got from this man, is it above being a human for he to not look at it, I think, you can't set that  after what she heard from Peter de Vries, you can't say: I don't have to see this.
She wants to know this, I think as a mother, you want to know this. What happened, coming from the mouth of Joran .......

Q: So there's no responsebility for Peter R de Vries?
The question is: who caused the shock damage?
And then you have to take a step back, and say it's the one who's responsible for the show.

B: No, of course not, the shock damage has been caused because of the fact that, and I believe that, that you have to take the confession very serious, and the shock damage has happened because of what the man said he did, he said it himself.
So you can't say: The messenger has caused the shock damage, No it's Mr vd Sloot of course. Because of his actions and what he left behind.

Q: All the confession, let's call them what you call them, all the facts has been checked and they were not happy on Aruba, the boy has not been found, the boat has not been found.

B: That's true what you are saying now, but what you see often in a lawsuit is that a judge will believe a witness even though it's been proven that he lied.
So to judge to believe the witness is not the point, if you can believe him, or catch him in a lie, the judge can think: I can trust him, it makes sense what he says, or a suspect who lies, you can disconnect the two.

Q: Believability is in question, how can you bring the believability in front of a judge?

B: First of all don't forget the criminal case is still ongoing on Aruba, also my client has given me the orders, that as soon as Aruba makes the decision to not prosecute, we're going to MAKEN EEN KLACHT BY HET HOF. (Twitty, even though if the case gets dropped she's going to complain to the court on Aruba)

Lets look again at Mrs. Twitty, what she thought was the most difficult for her to watch during the show.

(Beth on tape)
When he imitated her when she's having a seizure, or is suffering or whatever, that's when......I mean............that's the part that's the most difficult for me to watch, that's this the day, or today .......I just said: I want to come through the Tv and I just want to kill him right there, I mean now I know the answer to what happened to Natalee, and I don't have to constanlty have to spearhead and manage and gosh you know I mean it's just like it's finaly put to rest I guess,

Q: Are you being motivated because of this reason or is it a client that.....?

B: No, I have to tell you that I am more motivated in this case because I can put myself in this woman shoes.

If the case is dropped I can myself bring a complain (by the courts).

Q: When are you yourself sure of the case, When are you going to start?

B: I told my client I will tell her within two weeks.

Does anyone know anything about this complaining to the court? I've never heard of such a thing.Just curious as to what that means..

Does anyone know anything about this complaining to the court? I've never heard of such a thing.Just curious as to what that means..

Klaas, speaking of moving some posts.....  Could you please move the posts on page 81 of the Prayer Thread to the Peaches Rally Thread?  From pdh3 at the top down to Lala's will do nicely.  Shoulda been there to start with.  TY

Is it possible that Mr. Moszkowicz means this?


http://www.echr.coe.int/echr/


 :smt102

Here Peaches..

Oh Jerry, you made me cry, thank you so much!!!

Hi Tot,

I have not heard of this either.  Maybe our new Dutch friends can help us to understand this type of civil suit.
I do hope Bram seriously believes he can win this for Beth, otherwise why even mention it?

BTW, do you have the link to that zorpia site mentioned in earlier thread.  Not had a chance to look into it.

Also, back in Feb. Art Wood was on Dana's show and he said he found the Gottenbos boat and gave that 411 to Mos.  Any updates on that?

j4n!!

You're way out of line jackb..It was a fair question and it's one that's asked by many people that don't care to go out and buy books to get the answer.This question was answered very nicely which you would have seen had you of scrolled down to see.Do not ever and I mean ever accuse me of anything,especially the act of manipulation.That is an evil accusation and I do not appreciate it one bit.When your pointing your finger at someone else,you've got three pointing right back at you.You might want to remember that!Like I said,it was a fair question and a fair answer followed..God Bless

Anna - I have moved your post to it's own thread.  It has not been deleted nor has it been modified, simply moved so we don't disrupt this new NH discussion thread again.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2694.0

I am not an attorney, in the US or Holland, but I think it goes like this. If the prosecutor decides to not prosecute a case, and formally drops the case, then the victim can hire an attorney and prosecute the case themself. They get the complete file.

Hi Tot,

I have not heard of this either.  Maybe our new Dutch friends can help us to understand this type of civil suit.
I do hope Bram seriously believes he can win this for Beth, otherwise why even mention it?

BTW, do you have the link to that zorpia site mentioned in earlier thread.  Not had a chance to look into it.

Also, back in Feb. Art Wood was on Dana's show and he said he found the Gottenbos boat and gave that 411 to Mos.  Any updates on that?

j4n!!

This is the second time in the last week or so that I have seen this very same question, almost word for word, so it must be on everyone's mind. What was the fair answer and did it get answered fairly both times? I missed both answers but I definetly remember the question. Just curious.

Anna - my guess is Beth being called a suspect comes from the Kelly & Young and Renee Gielen documetary (I could be wrong).

Sorry Tot.  I'm not ignoring, just working (or trying to pretend to at least).  It's my understanding that if the prosecutor fails to bring charges, the victem can file an appeal to the court to try and have that decision overruled.  I don't know if it's ever done and if so, how successful it is.  I would imagine it works well in Holland, but in a corrupt environment like Aruba, I doubt it's very useful.

Private Eye - yes, Janet explained it very well in a couple posts in response to Tot's original post:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg363689#msg363689

Thankyou PE,
   Wow!Wow!Wow! Getting the complete file would be great if they had one eh? Seem's things go missing in Aruba.People,evidence,etc...If it happened in Aruba,it would be in front of the same judges,right?

suisse71 ,
  I don't know a thing about the Zorpia site or that boat..Sorry..I'm sure someone else here could find it for you though...

Too bad Beth can't include all the Fobbers in the suit.  After all they started the accusations without any of the evidence that they demanded to believe in Joran's guilt.

The whole situation is sad, but personally I think Beth and Dave have worked together better than 98% of all other people similiar situated. When it has counted they have both been there for each other, supporting each other. I would hate for either of them to start questioning their response to this, their behavior as parents, or their treatment of each other. They did and are doing a great job.They still have a child alive that needs them to function as parents who both financially and emotionally contribute to Matts life and to support him while he is in college, and it takes BOTH parents to support a child in college today.

Laatste artikelen: 12 Sv
Wetboek van Strafvordering (Sv)

Artikel 12 | Sv, Boek 1, Titel 1, Afdeling 4
   
1.
    Wordt een strafbaar feit niet vervolgd of de vervolging niet voortgezet, dan kan de rechtstreeks belanghebbende daarover schriftelijk beklag doen bij het gerechtshof, binnen het rechtsgebied waarvan de beslissing tot niet vervolging of niet verdere vervolging is genomen. Indien de beslissing tot niet vervolging is genomen door de officier van justitie bij het landelijk parket, is bevoegd het gerechtshof te 's-Gravenhage.

The whole situation is sad, but personally I think Beth and Dave have worked together better than 98% of all other people similiar situated. When it has counted they have both been there for each other, supporting each other. I would hate for either of them to start questioning their response to this, their behavior as parents, or their treatment of each other. They did and are doing a great job.They still have a child alive that needs them to function as parents who both financially and emotionally contribute to Matts life and to support him while he is in college, and it takes BOTH parents to support a child in college today.

Does anyone think the insinuation of attorney Bram Moszkowicz into this mix will possibly cause the big documentary expose by Renee Geilen to be cancelled faster than appearances on that other program from TeleAruba with Host Castro by any chance?

I think there is a very good possibility that they may think twice now about what they say if they know they can be held accountable.  Bram does seem to have quite a rep in this regard.


Off to the ole working and lurking. . . . .

Bram hasn't agreed to take the case yet right? I would imagine that it's all in limbo so to speak.Sounds plausible to me though that they would cancel..

Excellent post PE. How true.......It serves no purpose to second guess at this time why a mother in a state of understandable emotional distress choose to make a particular call.

Look who's that:

http://www.rtl.nl/shows/jensen/home/index.xml

sounds to me as though he wants to be pretty sure he can win, he doesn't want to get beth's hopes up and then another disappointment. he said as much.

also anna, sounds as if the complaint would be against the aruban court for failure to proceed -- some sort of misconduct or malfeasance??

Bram told last week in the Jensen show that he will come back next week (this week) in the Jensen show to tell what he decided.

It would surprise me if he comes to tell that he does not take the case. ::MonkeyConfused::

I only asked it once and was told that Beth told her son to call Dave.I thought it to be a simple and well rounded answer. It seem's like a fair answer to me.I don't know about another question and answer and if there was one,I missed it...

{{edit}}.

I am sorry, I didn't mean you asked it twice, but I do remember seeing the question before, and I never saw that answer either. I don't think it is a "bad" question:)

Thankyou PE..Big Hugs..That means alot to me coming from you. I would never stab at either parent for their actions. Hind-sight is always 20/20 and I feel sure if it could all be done over again, not one Mt.Brook student would have gone to Aruba..I pray for Dave and Beth so much.Geesh,I feel like I'm part of the family and I really am,the spiritual one..:)

I THINk that there is a possibility for tow types of suit. One is the civil suit that recently has been discussed. The second case is a criminal case after the prosecutor formally declines to prosecute and Natalee's estate would then be allowed to hire a private attorney and prosecute the case instead of the prosecutor

I THINk that there is a possibility for tow types of suit. One is the civil suit that recently has been discussed. The second case is a criminal case after the prosecutor formally declines to prosecute and Natalee's estate would then be allowed to hire a private attorney and prosecute the case instead of the prosecutor

Beth is a "SUSPECT" ?!?

Q: Because now she's a suspect herself in the disappearance of her daughter?
B: Yes! Just to say something.

I can think of a lot of avenues for redress here.

Wrongful prosecution
Criminal Abuse of prosecutorial powers
Intentionally false prosecution
Defamation
Intentional misuse of taxpayer funds
Fraud

Is this just a poor translation?  This is preposterous and if true, is as damaging to Aruba, as jvds' own on-air confession remains damaging to him.

.

I THINk that there is a possibility for tow types of suit. One is the civil suit that recently has been discussed. The second case is a criminal case after the prosecutor formally declines to prosecute and Natalee's estate would then be allowed to hire a private attorney and prosecute the case instead of the prosecutor

Well, I just find even referring to Beth as a suspect very offensive.

I thought the burden of proof for being labeled a suspect was, according to the lovely and gracious Arleen, STRONG suspicion or reason to suspect thus and so.

Thinking it was an insurance scam because that was the false claim  they told before about Max DeVries would not qualify as reason for strong suspicion since that turned out not to be true at all.

That leaves the psychics and I do have a very hard time believing that anyone really takes them seriously.  One word against another.  But it did come from two of the government Ministers that this should be investigated so perhaps that is where this comes from?

Just more for Bram to work with, I think.  Reflects more on the mindset of the Ministers than on Beth, imo.

.

Karma…this is some of what I have found…keep coming to dead ends…anything you can find would be appreciated…

FREDDY ZEDAN ARAMBATZIS/ARENDS…VENEZUELAN…Around 24 now and according to Joran only speaks Pap.

Father…Melody posted that he was on his death bed in Venezuela, with a smile! JE did find a 52 year old male in Venezuela…named Arambatzis.

Caps found…Zedan=0….Arambatzis=2…need to check back with him on that!

Mother.. ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT   LILIAN REGINA
62 MONTANJA  NOORD  from Chamber records
Also have 39 F or G…not sure which right now. Also read that she was Dutch.

Kermit has an address of 7A Catiri….I followed this to a Frederick Arends on the Chamber list.

Here’s some posts I found...

Freddy's mom is a "Supervisory Director" for the Bubali Sports Club located in Noord. Bubali is also the location of the Bird Sanctuary which has 2 ponds.Here is the complete name of Freddy's mom: Freddy's mom is a "Supervisory Director" for the Bubali Sports Club located in Noord. Bubali is also the location of the Bird Sanctuary which has 2 ponds.Here is the complete name of Freddy's mom:
LILIAN REGINA ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERTIt appears that she has been married twice. I don't know if Rodriguez or Albert is her maiden name. Since she is listed as being "Dutch" I would think that "Albert" was probably her maiden name....but, I am not sure. Can anybody help me out on this? I have always thought "Zedan" was Freddy's last name until I found this other info. Could it be his middle name? You can find this information at: http://206.48.100.138/registry/registry_search.afpType in: S.C. BUBALI where it says TRADE NAME & then click search.
Posted by: Shelly | Monday, August 29, 2005
++++
 Do you remember Freddy Zedan and the house on Montana Street? His family’s name was Arambatzis-Rodriguez. There were several half- and/or step-siblings, all with different surnames.

I’m wondering if Daury could be one of them - perhaps innocent of this accusation, but related to the real person who did it.

In your post # 2,315 on previous thread, the link to picture of Freddy Zedan, code named "badboy_956", picture dated 7-13-04, shows the same guy "Freddy" as in the pictures posted earlier today.
 
He is flashing that awful gang sign, this time with both hands. There is a middle-aged woman in the background, who can't see the gang signs, and probably wouldn't know what they mean, anyway
++++
Brother … from Sharon, vms and Kermit...Ernesto Arambatzis…Miami Fl from around 1999…seems to disappeared of off the radar other than court documents from late 2007 and 2007. Graduated college in Venezuela…found that on line.

Is related to Sasha Rodriguez, maybe a half or stepsister. A couple of other Rodriguez pop up on the Dr Phil documents…not sure if they are related. Post above mentions different names.

Seems some what protected as he was let out the back door very quietly on his release and reportedly, per Harry Tho, left the country immediately.

According to a taped recording of the Kalpoes on 6/22/2005, he is the reason they were arrested!

yucatexan, snoopy, Bearlyhere, Peaches, truthseeker2, BUCKSHOT, private eye, Ree, spec_ed, trimmonthelake, WhiskeyGirl..Anyone? ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Here are some youtubes about Joran that I just noticed.  Perhaps these are related to the "witch hunt"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psVbTBbpUwA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93SrrQT-KEE

It seems like driving by his place was a tourist attraction, much like the home of Drew Peterson.  imho