Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

HiYa Monkeys! Good Night San!

But OB We still don't know who was at the Sloot's that night and We still don't know who all was involved the 20 other times that a tourist was taken to one of these parties..IMO they are covering for the Sloots to protect their own butts....JMO

Good Night Monkeys ... this time I mean it.  I have had that Scrabble board set up on the kitchen table for an hour.  Hubby  should have been home by 8:00 PM from a meeting at the church  and ... he just drove up the driveway.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Janet
8:45 PM

++++++++++

Joran van der Sloot
De Zaak Natalee Holloway
Page 179 - 182

Wednesday June 22, 2005

While being transferred from police station to KIA, Deepak and Satish are secretly recorded in a 40min conversation:

D: I'm not going outside much (in prison), since they're asking too much shit.
 
S: When you stay on your own, you'll start to think too much, so don't stay on your own. Talk to people. Play domino.

D: I've told them that they should arrest Freddy as well.

S: The three of us have been arrested, but he just knows the truth.
 
D: I've told them to arrest Koen and Sander as well. f***ing all of them. From me, they won't get any hint, as long as the truth keeps hanging. None of them are friends, except for us. Do you get it? Do I get it? (<- this is a Dutch saying when " something doesn't make sense")

S: I have nothing, there is nothing, nothing from me and I didn't do
anything.
 
D: I'm not afraid of that shit

S: I'm not afraid. I don't worry.
 
D: I want them to get ("find") the girl, so, but preferably alive. But
anyway, if they'll find her dead, yeh, then that's bad luck for the family. But when they find her, they'll know exactly who did it. That's what I all learned from (???). I want them to get her. I know (???)

S: I know where I am. I am close to the truth. I'm always close to the truth.
 
D: I'm not afraid. I do miss mum and all those things. That bores me.

S: Yes.

D: Not that I'm afraid. The worst has already happened. I've already come to the worst place, so nothing worse than this can happen, do you understand? But I know, that when I get outside (be released) then they are going to pay me very well.
 
D: I'm not afraid. It also depends on that f***ing statement. Yeh, since there's one (or a) person who changes his story every time. That (person) has made already six statements, I guess. But they are all pure shit (???) and I'm still in it (here).

S: (???)
 
D: You push (???)
 
S: And by let give to let go (???)

D: It is impossible, swa. When you start that car the whole neighborhood will hear it.

S: Anyway, he seems to know everything better.
 
D: He knows our rule, we trust him as a friend, like a brother to be close with (???)

S: Anyway, bad luck.

D: And I also trusted Freddy like a brother.
 
S: Yes.
 
D: But he also talked shit, that's why we've been arrested.
 
S: What did he say?
 
D: He keeps information behind. You know that Van der Sloot trusts Freddy with his life. Freddy knows what has happened. Freddy knows the truth.
 
S: I know he knows truth  

D: Freddy knows, Freddy knows.
 
S: I've just said, Freddy also knows about the story of what happened, ask him.
 
D: Freddy knows  

S: Yes, he knows that if that person maybe has told him some details (???) that I don't know, but I also know what that person has told me. That is the first and the story that we made up, that I know (???)
 
D: That boy is also arrested, no. Steve. He has been solved too, so then it's solved too (???)

S: He didn't do a thing.
 
D: It has been solved.

(.)

D: Up till today, I haven't told any shit about him, whether he did
something with the girl or that the chick.
 
S: We've only told the truth
 
D: Yep, because he hasn't told me anything and I don't know it. I'm not gonna lie about him. But the more he talks (??????) I would never never never talk shit about him like: "he did do this or that to the girl", because I don't know.

S: Must just declare the truth

D: I'll never do that. But let him talk shit. I'll never say something
against or about (???) him. Never, just tell the truth. And that's also what I've always declared in my statements. His attorney will point that out to himself. I'll never (falsely) accuse somebody.


Freddy Arambatzis
Witness Statement
De Zaak Natalee Holloway
June 12, 2005

Monday afternoon on the 30th, Joran came to my house.

He told me that the previous day, Sunday, he had befriended a girl in the Holiday Inn casino and that she had invited him to come to Carlos and Charlies that evening. He went and they danced and drank together.

After that he, Deepak Satish and the girl drove off. Her friends saw that. The drove in the direction of the Lighthouse; a white car was behind them and most likely wanted to race Deepak. But that is something Deepak would never do. Joran told me that he fingered and had french kissed the girl while they were driving. He did not say that he had had sex with her.

They drove to the Lighthouse, she wanted to see sharks. But Deepak only drove up to the Lighthouse because his car is very low to the ground and cannot drive up to the North side of Aruba.

The girl had said to Joran that if Deepak and Satish would have lived in her town, they would be slaves.

After that they drove to the hotel. When the girl had pushed open the door of the car, she fell to the ground. Joran wanted to help her but she shoved him away.

The next day, Tuesday May 31st 2005 in the afternoon, I was with Joran at the raquetclub. Joran looked worried. He asked me if I could remember what he had said the previous day about the girl. I told him yes. The girl had gone missing. The FBI had been to his house during the night but he had not been home. His father had called him to find out where he was, Joran said that he was in the Raddison Casino. He told he that after that phone call he was called on the phone by Deepak and that Deepak picked him up a few minutes later. They drove to Joran's house. The FBI and the girls family were at his house. After that Joran told me that Deepak, Satish and himself did not drop off the girl at the Holiday Inn Hotel, but that THE FOUR OF THEM drove to the beach at the north side of the Marriot Hotel. The girl had fallen several times on the way to the beach. Joran told me that at some point she "no longer came around/no longer regained consciousness" and that THEY had left her on the beach. He also told me that he had left his gym/sporting shoes on the beach. After Joran had told me this, I asked him why he had left her there. He answered me that at that moment he had not known what to do. Joran told me that after this HE WAS DROPPED OFF AT HOME BY DEEPAK AND SATISH.Translation Credit: Rammstein[/i]


Joran van der Sloot
De Zaak Natalee Holloway
Page 160/161

After Freddy's second statement on June 13th at 18:30, in which he keeps insisting that I told him the first story already on May 30th, the police confront us as best friends with each other.  Some further statements follow after that.  In the end Freddy states in his 6th and 7th statements (verbatim reports) that I have told him that Natalee went unconscious several times and did not regain consciousness at a certain moment, that I tried to wake her up by shaking her but that but this also did not work.Unofficial Engish translation

Who else do you think was at the sloots with a bunch of punk kids? Why all this for a jr pimp party that went wrong? Has to be more to this then 6 or so pimps and a gay pimp.IMO

That's just it We don't know if it was a Jr Pimp party or if Natalee was taken there for Paulus and His friends....Remember not to long ago We were discussing the Casino tape and Paulus and trying to figure out what was on the table in front of Paulus...I've been wondering if it was a cell phone with a camera and Paulus took Natalee's picture then sent it to someone to approve Her...I know it sounds crazy but it is a possibility isn't it....also in the S/S riddles it says something about why did the girl owe money....maybe Natalee did not owe money but..Paulus or Joran did and Natalee was the payment...there are just so many scenarios it makes Your head spin..... ::MonkeyConfused:: 

I agree with ya Hotping..No reason for PVDS to lie about the events at the casino as Natalee wasn't even missing yet. Why deny playing BJ and talking to her? Definite Pre-Meditated events that we haven't been privy to yet. Also a definite event that night..But why Sunday May 30th? Did it all happen because Anita was away? Did they go as far as to say the 10 and 15 year old VDS kids were home so no one would think about any deviant acts at that house? Was Natalee procured for a major cartel member or someone powerful in Aruba? Or was it just random because Natalee was outgoing and fell into there trap? According to the PV'S it seems like Joran and others only had eyes for Natalee.MO

Well I took it upon myself to tape that video *******.  We all know he will take it down in a few days.  So when its done uploading, we will have it.  Can a dutch Monkey please translate it for us?  It would be much appreciated   ::MonkeyDance::

I think it was definitely premeditated...I don't know if I believe that the younger Sloots were there or not but I do think that Natalee was at the Sloot house when Beth arrived and that possibly she was moved later that night to Lorenzo's house....I think one of Paulus' Judge friends and maybe others could have been there when this all took place and the reason for the big cover up is because this is not the first time that a tourist has been taken on Her last night on Aruba and that everybody knows and everybody has to help with this coverup to protect themselves from allegations in the happenings of other tourist before Natalee...IMO..this was and maybe is an on going thing...on Aruba and the surrounding islands...MO 

He's making fun of the confession and in 2 other vids I watched of him they sat around and talked about Natalee. I just hate liars Hotshot,and Pietjezz is just like the others who lie in this case. Nothing in it for him so he will be a dirtbag and help no one except the perps.

(http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/7623/joranvrij134945adb6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/7408/duh3ie0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

I noticed Joran wears that around his neck everytime I see him..What is it a key? I saw it in the Video with Patrick and I also see something on what was supposed to be Joran hiding in Drachum after the De Vries show aired.

I know hes making fun of it all.  but I am going to try to expose him for who he is, and what he did as far as this case goes.  Chris Hodge needs to be questioned.  Why hasnt he been talked to yet?  Why does the FBI not have the videos?  There are alot of whys when it comes to this guy.

He seems to think the missing video is worth 250k..Am I correct? I just do not understand why the FBI/KLPD do not request that video. From what I remember Pietjezz said he wouldnt send that video to anyone unless the FBI or KLPD picked it up from him personally. I think much of what he knows came from one of his friends in this case and I think he edited the videos to cut out parts and add music. I think his buddy filmed it.

I'm not sure what it is but it could be a key...a whistle...or it could be an epi pen (not sure of spelling) for allergic reactions.... ::MonkeyConfused::

Wheres this video? Seems like this was important also if she sent it to the Authorities in Aruba.
---------------------------------------------
On June 13 2005 a girl named Jacy from Holland sent a video of the dunes (Rock) area of what appeared to be a polis recovery of a body filmed on 6-10-2005
------------------------------------------------

Then he placed all the videos on the server. He didn't seem to have a problem with anyone knowing what took place. Then he removed one. The one Jacy and I saw. Why? What was the problem with that video?

a girl from holland keeps pm ing me and talking about an ANDY or AVE..as in street... talking about it for like 6-7 days now...
Posted by Rob: Reply #1056 on: June 17, 2005, 06:22:28 PM »
------------------------------------------

I always thought the picture in the Automobile was family picking
Joran up for the trip to Germany.

I'M not sure what it is either :( When I look at it closer it doesn't look like a key or a whistle.MO

Twenty times...for a wild and crazy guy!

From Chapter 3:

page 5:

- Joran and Freddy often went to the beach. He got him in touch with the pretty girls. He said "look there go a few pretty American girls, let's go and talk to them". Joran says Freddy introduced in to the paradise that had always been in front of him. Freddy's English sucked so it was mostly Joran who did the chatting with the girls. Freddy had no inhibitions/hang ups. He did not care if he made an ass of himself. He would be blown for 20 times but then he was lucky the 21st time

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1117.0

Freddy would have had to talk to ALE before June 9th.2005 for this to have happened. They were not going to arrest the Kalpoes on what Freddy told Joran, in the unseen 5/31 PV, or what he told Guido, who was questioned prior to June 9th.

Sorry...what I was referring to in my previous post is in blue!

Good Morning!

Chapter 5...page 7

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1117.0

Is this the same band with the video that was discussed a little while back?
TIA

- Elaine he met during a concert of Intwine, he was on a boat on a catamaran during the show that was done on the water by the band. He noticed her during the show and he went over to her and they saw the rest of the show together. Freddy had taken a fancy to some other girl and had started talking to that girl. Elaine and Joran hit it off and went out for dinner and a movie. They went steady for a while.

O/T

Mum - CBB had your original  Can you put it on or do you need my help?

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/originals/MumInOhio.jpg)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/originals/MumInOhio.jpg

Morning Monkeys! 
When I got up this a.m. I caught up reading here and then checked out the updates on other blogs.  This link was posted at RU from Topsider......it may have already been posted here, but I thought it was the perfect way to start the day!  (Short article and video)

http://www.tothepointnews.com/content/view/3114/85/

Have a good day everyone!

Thanks Klaas...I think I can do it...I just wasn't following your directions properly yesterday!

   ::MonkeyConfused::

Good Morning Monkeys

Janet
7:30 AM

Good morning Tamikosmom...did I confuse you this morning?...sometimes I confuse myself! (And this morning is definately one of those days)

What I was trying to ask was...If Freddy was the reason that the Kalpoes were arrested, per Joran's book and that car tape, when did he do or say whatever he did or said?

It had to be before the early morning of June 9th. and we don't have anything to show that Freddy was questioned before June 12th.


So how could Freddy be the reason the Kalpoes were arrested?

If there weren't so many politicians involved, this would have been solved a long time ago.      My head still spins.     

There are some new posts on the sites of Patrick van der Eem & Peter R. de Vries!

http://patrickvandereem.nl/

http://www.peterrdevries.nl/

Mum ... I was always of the impression that Freddy was first interrogated on June 12th and ... then Paulus and Anita had him over to their home to find out what he said.

Janet

+++++++++++++

Karin Janssen
'The Abrams Report'
June 29, 2005

JANSSEN: ... And secondly, the father and the mother have asked a friend of Joran, the suspect, the minor suspect, to come to their home to tell them what he has explained to the police. That is, well, I can say, was an obstruction of the investigation.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8416795/


Arlene Ellis-Schipper
'The Abrams Report'
June 30, 2005

ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, ARUBAN ATTORNEY: Well basically obstruction of justice is a criminal offense in our criminal code. However, there is an exoneration for family members in the first degree. So in the case of Mr. Van der Sloot it would not apply.

I sincerely hope when the the crew of the Persistence returns to check the remaining targets ... the search will be done independent of those who are accountable to Rudy Croes ... the Justice Minister.  If Aruban involvement is a requirement ... I hope that the chain of custody of any evidence will involve ... at least .... FBI observation and documentation.

Justice for Natalee Holloway is not the objective of the Aruban Justice System.

Janet

++++++++++++

Beth Twitty
FOX NEWS
LIVE DESK w/Martha MacCallum
November 28, 2006

BETH: Well I think they will always have to look at there were two personnel involved from the Aruban Justice Department and that is why we don’t have any evidence and that’s what Joran’s attorney will have to be reminded of. It’s because of Bob Witt and Ben King stopped the search warrants. It was made to initially search the entire area of Montanja 19 the garden, the buildings and everything but on the spot high ranking employee of the Justice Office Bob Witt reduced the search warrant to only the room of Joran so that’s why we don’t have any evidence because of involvement of the obstruction from the Aruban Justice Department personnel.

Thanks GBMW!  I'm having trouble finding the English versions of both. I thought I had them saved.....  help?

Hi Dihannah..I don't see them in english,so all we can do is tranlate with google or another online translator.


   
Wednesday, March 26th, 2008
Panorama on warpath

Even my wife are not made on the dirt floor in pewters panorama that I am a lover or orgies in hotel rooms with temeiers and ordinary wijven (???). They know that it are a stupid gossip booklet are that since the photograph looks are flat sensation should sell. The editor or that paper are now seeking war with freeze because their Beth has refused an interview after she were informed or the journalistic sewer level there. Oh, he will probably property thought, ash my sheet then ate least all fatsoensnormen or journalism to boat mend, then the attack might be the best defense. Read the details complete www.peterrdevries.nl

For Peter try www.peterrdevries.com

Also, Google Translator works good enough to get the main idea of what is posted in Dutch.

Wednesday, March 26th, 2008

VICTIMS (online translator)

If ex-criminal pay attention me ate least say that I am a child ervaringsdeskundige the rights or victims or crime. Victims - as Natalee Holloway and the family - in the criminal justice virtually without rights. Among the intellectuals that most or the nieuwsaanbod care in our country, victims are usually hushed. Sometimes it seems hurry, or they themselves are guilty or a coincidence that they are in the path or their murderer, rapist or berover convicted. And lawyers for victims are or course a wonderful target to try to prevent the appalling act or their customer or a little humanity. That are a fixed part or their livelihood: black victims! The offender shines there. Just how soon after the disappearance or Natalee, rechterszoon Joran themselves on the shove came with the allegation that Natalee himself ash a horny girl behaved. Proudly he writes in his book how he came to the first meeting with the parents Aruba - while Natalee in the water were exactly cold - even father immediately took Holloway separately to explain that his daughter there liked or pulp. As if it is a crime that is a girl WHO just finished her examination, once the large flowers outside move.

After Joran known to me how he dumped her into the sea, the press were full or stories or intellectuals and lawyers WHO came to explain how prayed it are not what to Joran. Because the only victim that's always a destiny or support world turned in their, is the culprit. Illustrative for all or this were the column by the author framework Abdolah in the Volkskrant on the ' peter R. Vries-show '. Framework Abdolah showed a narrow... no, I must say limited thinker to be when it comes to victims and perpetrators & & debt penalty. In his whole story, the become ' victim ' is not a time for, pays attention alone the suffering that the Holloway's Joran them. "It felt not good"... "somewhere did it hurt"... "there were something inhuman"... "this are ugly and ethically forbidden". Those words or framework Abdolah fit all in the behaviour or Joran, not only for what he known, but also to hòe him about his act, Natalee, the police, judges and even his own father said. But the writer used them to our action to approve.

Kader Abdolah had so much compassion for Joran, which he himself get used up to all or its equal display without knowledge or the facts. According to him, there were things that happened not. "He has two months or a boy with booze and cocaine available to him to tallow to." Absolute nonsense. "He buys a friend or the boy." I am not bought and were not his friend, but a mole, because his enemies, the police and justice ' pitiful ' Joran his jaw tightly onto each other ash the most experienced and best instructed criminal.

For people WHO property no regard for victims are the hobbyhorse always that the perpetrator ' mentally ill ' and ' unstable '. Framework Abdolah ash the deeds or Joran tries to tallow. Too prayed for the victim! According to these people are the main action that it are never ' normal ' are a different thing if you terrible calls and therefore should not be "convicted" but helped.

But for those ' debt ground for exclusion ', as the lawyer gentlemen call it, you must really knettergek, simply do not know what you are doing. No sense or guilt. Such a total fool, yes, which should founded in a place or the cell. But a dear nursing for criminals or mentally unstable? Look, I say: what does an offender does not mentally with his victims? No, then I believe best a little retaliation. If I myself 15 years ago normal and stable? No! But the punishment or 11 months I property earned. That penalty were good. And it helped, because I decided that I never again in the shadow or a cell wild life. And how these tallow according hobbypsychiater Abdolah ' labile ' suspect Joran. Me pays attention give another example from my conversations with him, But I were just laughing eh, I property no coño said, Patrick! None coooñoo! I came there eh, okay, and my rights drawer drawer drawer, you do not property to answer. I property not even said "I appeal to my right to silence me." Agent that I property just looked right in his eyes, I property all the time leg no become from my mouth. "And when a judge spun him that he not talked to him the truth, spun this ' labile ' boy me how proud he responded: "I property nothing to declare when he (the judge)" I think that you know. I thought "this are bath". The only thing I said were: sorry ate all, I think it are very speculates that you ash a judge. To then along with his lawyer after enjoying how well he did not do.

But Kader Abdolah wonder how we a boy or 20 years so heavy pressure dare longer? Even if he are a perpetrator. "He argues that this" ugly and ethically forbidden, even if he are the real culprit.

This limited thinking just goes to show how outlawed victims. I will tell you something which are really surprising. In our world we rightly attach great importance to the rights or man. There's even a magnificent treaty that many countries in the western world property signed the Convention for the Protection or Human Rights and Fundamental Freedom. An ordinary citizen knows the importance or that treaty may not be good, but if ex-detainee, I know that it are so. That treaty are very important and powerful. And it sacrifices a great protection to fine suspects and prisoners. In fact, ash in our country justice or the lower court does something that are inconsistent with the rules in that treaty, the judge our own law should draw aside!

But you will not believe. In this whole convention the become ' victim ' but once are. And now, it's crazier people. That one time (Article 34) are not the victim or a crime, but it is actually referred to the suspect or offender, which are a violation or rules in that treaty victim or justice. It are dirty good that we property such a beautiful convention on the rights or man, for the rights or the accused, for the rights or the offender and detained. But it are no disgrace that our civilized society never really dares to work on the rights or the victim? Why do people like Kader Abdolah always that the civilized world are not, if we agree with its all US much more committed to the victim? When do agree that those rights treaty right, so that are good?! There are a destiny or work to be done to victims or crime better deal left for them to do, more often to them to score still than with how pathetic and annoying it are not everything for the perpetrators.

There are people WHO say that there are actually still nothing has leg resolved with this confession or Joran. That's only because they prefer to know every charge detail. Very happy to see a movie or everything that happened that night deliberate, because only then are the mystery for them completely solved. If course it are interesting to see the naadje or the more frosted to know WHO Joran really helped with the discharging or Natalee. If course it are strange if you never hear whether his father would ever be prosecuted for entering a phone call with - ash Joran cursed - far too little credit. But I can assure the parents or Natalee, after all this time to property listened to Joran, that the fate or their daughter what he are known to me. And that took their victims to this great uncertainty road and gave them the chance their lives back a little bit stable.

If Kader Abdolah his column ends with the words "pay attention US hope that Joran of of the ditch song about everything, and our help earlier than our hatred involved" than double meaning are that in false hope. False because it would be a shame if someone so numb to victims, to the police that he, in his own book, and then once again become to me, remains lie. False because the offender rather than the victim help need. It are true that hate are chignon, but keep in mind that a society that increasingly ignores the victim, false compassion and sow hatred harvest.

http://patrickvandereem.nl/

From Peter R. di Vries site - through the google translator:

THE PRINCIPLES OF BETH HOLLOWAY

PANORAMA FOR EVERYBODY IS A WHORE ....

Before I wrote about the preparation of certain media in the affair of Joran van der Sloot and Natalee Holloway. In their attempt in the glow of this scoop to, or in their envy there prejudice to do, we fine journalistic exploits.

-- ANONYMOUS SOURCES WITHOUT WEDERHOOR --

The crown spande Panorama, in the week after the first broadcast slimy bedelde to an interview with me, but not when it took a supposedly revealing story about infiltrator Patrick van der Eem produced. This article does not even comply with the yet not insurmountable criteria of the roddelbladjournalistiek. Throughout the story, which was announced ronkend were only anonymous sources included: A former onderwereldfiguur'en 'zegslieden who wish to remain anonymous' were the only speakers in this lame story, where there is no rule came in for interviews. Then you usually already know enough. And those anonymous sources came under more with this type of statements:

http://www.peterrdevries.nl/

In case you missed this on the front page: Beth called Vicki.

Vicki's post: "Just to let you all know, BETH says thank you to all of us Monkeys….she appreciates all that we do…" ::MonkeyCool::

Tamikosmom..That is what we have documented. So then I don't see how Deepak can say it is because of Freddy that they are arrested on 6/9/2005.

The statement given that:"I want them to get ("find") the girl, so, but preferably alive. But anyway, if they'll find her dead, yeh, then that's bad luck for the family. But when they find her, they'll know exactly who did it. That's what I all learned from (???). I want them to get her. I know" (???)  Has been my contention all along that he IDed himself by his handiwork.  His initials were on there, or they would have produced the body long ago. Some of the blowups I sent out to some who should have forwarded them to the right people should indicate this may be the case.  If I know it, then the feebees should know it.  There would be sneaker evidence as well on the body.  I feel that is the main reason for hiding the body.  There was something on there that would not wash off.
That boy is a pure T psychopath and his friends should come clean about what happened, but as someone mentioned above, they were paid well for keeping their mouths shut and probably had themselves and family threatened.  The only reason they are alive now is the fact that the case would point to those left who are not silenced.  Later on, there is no guarantee that they will not meet with unfortunate accidents, etc.  They have sold their peace and security, as their guarantees will get less as time goes on.  I am almost sure of it.  Those people have paid out the wazoo for their "party."  How much longer they intend to do this is anybody's guess.
I would not guess it to be two much longer, as it has been almost 3 years.
They know that "dead men tell no tales."  It is not only JVs being protected here, and they know he cannot keep his mouth shut.  He has probably NEVER had to do anything in his life except what he wanted and it is too late to expect him to do otherwise.  Jack blue
 

DEEPAK KALPOE: "JORAN IS A DISTURBED/SICK PERSON."

Deepak Kalpoe
Suspect Statement
June 16, 2005

I am not Joran who steals money from his parents. And I am of the opinion that, that this is not the issue at this moment. If you want to find out what happened to the girl and where she is, you have to be with Joran van der SLOOT Joran van der SLOOT is a disturbed/sick person, he has admitted that he is in the care of a psychologist and that he hits his brother. If the police wants more information about Natalee, then you have to be with Joran. He was the last person with the girl, that I can guarantee.

 

The guy is trey cool.  He seems on the total up and up.  He probably is a very good (above average) citizen, regardless of his prior.  He must have had some raising somewhere along the line.  I still would like him to come to the US.  Jackb

Something about Nico Jorg and Rudy Croes here (in pap):

PROCURADOR GENERAL INTERINO NICO JÖRG A ENTREGA RETIRO ENTRANTE PROME DI JULI VENIDERO
on 25-03-2008 00:32
 

ORANJESTAD – Un informe oficial ricibi for di Ministerio Publico ta bisa cu siman pasa Procurador General interino Nico Jörg a entrega su retiro entrante prome di Juli 2008 cerca minister di Husticia Rudy Croes.

Mr. Jörg ta regresa pa su funcion di Abogado General na Corte Supremo na Den Haag. Inicialmente e tabata di keda dos luna mas na Aruba, te prome di September 2008. 

 

Den su carta pa minister Croes, e PG interino a pone cu nunca no tabata un secreto cu e tin gran deseo pa bolbe pa loke e ta considera e trabao mas bunita pa un hurista na Hulanda: esun di Abogado General na Corte Supremo. E chens a habri un biaha caba, pero e no tabata kier a laga Ministerio Publico na e momento ey. Awor atrobe e chens a presenta su mes. Mirando cu e mes kier tuma encargo di tur e casonan den e aña 2007/2008, el a palabra cu Procurador General di Corte Supremo di lo drenta den servicio na Juli 2008. 

 

Mr. Jörg a sirbi Aruba como Abogado General desde September 2005. Na Juli 2007, su nombracion a wordo alarga cu un aña, pa termina pues riba prome di September 2008.

http://www.extra.an/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1439&Itemid=31

Remember - Nico is the one who chastised PVDS
 
 

Thanks Klaas and Obs....   Klaas, remember when I opened the link a little while ago and it was in English on Patricks?  I remember showing you.  Hmmm, must have been just one blog he did in English.   

Yes, I do remember.  Patrick's spokesperson posts on that blog and he did post one article in English for American readers.

Hi Everyone!!!

Very nice that Beth called Vicki...I'm sure that lifted her spirits and made her feel good.

Does anyone know which colleges were going to try and "solve" the case?

Just reading 24ORA and it looks like yesterday was a day of total mayhem.

One aggressive turista detained. A few big fights. A bunch of car accidents. Typical chollers running amok.

The "aggressive" tourist looks like he get the bejeezers kicked out him. Aggressive turista = polis beating  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Hard to believe anyone wants to go to that zoo.

Quote from: klaasend on March 14, 2008, 02:41:29 AM

http://patrickvandereem.nl/

Friday, March 14th, 2008

Message for my American readers

Poentje Castro, a television reporter in Aruba, made a sneak recording of a private conversation with Patrick van der Eem, the insider in the Natalee Holloway case who recorded the confession of Joran van der Sloot during an undercover camera operation. The temptation to slyly record a private conversation with the man who is now famous in Holland and the USA for recording a criminal confession must have been just too much to resist.

However, his enthusiasm was to get the better of him. Keeping one camera rolling after the granted interview, the reporter forgot that you have to ask clear questions, and the answers – as the reporter now claims – should throw a different light on the case. In that sense the reporter failed. This was aggravated by biased editing of his material.

Both the aired preview and Castro himself were already facing heavy criticism on the front pages of Aruba’s newspapers. Due to the leading questioning and “clumsy” edits, the Aruban broadcaster decided not to air the complete interview, but rather fade the channel to black. Over the years, Castro has become known for his firm belief that Joran van der Sloot is not guilty, and currently fosters the speculative opinion that Joran must have made his confession up.

Due to the ongoing hype of the Natalee Holloway case in the Netherlands, the Dutch press unfortunately reported several of these suggestive statements, under the misconception that they represented hard news.

According to the Dutch translation from the original Papiamento (Aruba’s native tongue), Patrick says: “But I know who dumped the body in the sea…” in one fragment of the private conversation. While this hit the headlines, it is clear that Van der Eem was speculating, in a similar way to someone who says: “But I know that the New York Yankees will win the Superbowl this year”. Van Der Eem has a private opinion about who assisted Joran van der Sloot, but not the actual knowledge.

In another fragment that made headlines as hard news, Van der Eem is reported to have said: “because I already know him (Joran) for so many years”. However, at the end of the same sentence, he states that he knows Joran in flesh and blood only “for seven months” for the duration of the undercover operation plus aftermath. What he in fact says in the first part is that “he had already heard of him (Joran) for so many years”, as have so many of us since Natalee’s disappearance.

When Van der Eem tries to explain to the reporter that he gave the media the same information as he gave the police as a witness, the reporter edits the fragment in such a way that suggests Van der Eem paid the media and the police, which is patently complete nonsense, but has nevertheless been reported as a scoop by some Dutch media.

The above gives a clear impression of the lack of editorial and translational integrity of the recording of the private conversation, of the interview and of those fragments that have been broadcast. The clumsy translation from the Papiemento added further to this canard.

Castro has been attempting to sell his TV interview to numerous networks, both in the Netherlands and the USA. Before the broadcast, he also made an offer for Van Der Eem to buy the tapes, which was declined outright by his spokesman. Mr. Schouten: “He didn’t mean the costs to copy a DVD or for stamps. Mr. Castro wanted to receive a fee for the tapes. That’s like giving candy to a child that misbehaves. I have requested his lawyer now formally to send me these recordings from the first to the last second without any editing or cuts.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364956;topicseen#msg364956

Hi everyone, hereby a post from a friend of mine she made last night on RU (on my nic). Had some question / remarks about it; so under her post I pasted some more info to explain some things....hope you all understand Wink


Should be free? No evidence doesn't mean he didn't have anything to do with it. And if he did have something to do with this he shouldn't be able to get away with it. Proof or no proof. It's just right & wrong.
I know it doesn't work that way according to the law...I'm just thinking as a human being. And evidence doesn't automatically mean a conviction either.

I've only been on this forum recently. The fact is I've met Joran a couple of times. A friend of mine lived near him. One day last summer Joran and his friends / housemates were sitting in the backyard and he was speaking about girls in a rude manner. Her grandparents were coming over and she didn't know what to do. It was a hot day & of course her grandparents wanted to sit outside. So I went over and sat with them. In an instant his way of talking changed...charming mode set in. Later I've met him in clubs in Arnhem a couple of times. As a real player the fact that I wasn't interested got his attention of course. After a while he got the message and left me alone.

And I will say this; I found him to be a nice guy. Joran has a great sense of humour (well of course that would depend on your own sense of humour) and is very likeable; easygoing. But he thinks the world evolves around him and if things don't go the way he wants it....well watch out. And what bothered me the most: he doesn't have a lot of respect (if any for most girls) for girls. His nicknames loverboy / player do him credit.

So from my own experience with the guy: I didn't want to date him or be friends with him. And even without Natalee Holloway case in the back of my mind that wouldn't be any different I believe (being friends; dating such a player is a no go in every way for me). Although I can't know this for sure of course.

Some people give statements about him as if they know him...there is a girl that is his online friend that posts here a lot. I've read some of her posts (I think she even started this poll....I'm not sure); and my advice: be carefull; in real life he seems to be a bit different than the way you post about him here.




prolific wrote:


Still can't help but wonder why you never mentioned that information at SM, especially since that seems to be your home board...I would think that would have added greatly to your discussion there.

Oh well...just one of those things I suppose.

My reaction:

Well it was her that met him and I didn't know if she wanted me to post that information and it's only since a while that I started posting at this and the SM forum. And I did / do think it's better for her to tell about her encounters with Joran than the story coming from me; it did cross my mind to ask her to post at SM or RU but it just hadn't come up yet.

And right now, after reading some of the replies / reactions, I'm glad I didn't post anything on behalf of her sooner and she got to tell it herself yesterday.

When she was at my house yesterday this forum was open on my computer and she just asked if she could post something with my log in. The approval (if she would have applied for an account) wouldn't have gone throught in a couple of hours (I thought; because of Easter and the timedifference) so I said; sure you can post under my nic.

Hope that answers your question a bit? I think most people people on SM also read here? I'm not sure though...otherwise I will post her posts also on SM.
[/quote

Thank you for sharing a down-to-earth and unemotional "take" from someone who knows Joran.  I wasn't a member of SM in the early months after Natalee's disappearance, so I didn't read much directly from people who know or have met Joran.  Since then it's been either one end of the spectrum or another.  Your friend's familiarity with him may be limited, but it's interesting to hear how he comes across.



Thanks, I did ask her to join SM or RU but after reading some reactions on RU she said thanks but no thanks. She's not on the internet a lot and certainly doesn't post at forums usually...she was a bit startled after reading some posts on RU. So can't really blame her ;-) She'll just pop in and read the posts like she did before....

i totally agree with you, jackb, and with patrick. 
dennisintn

 

yes, he chewed him up very nicely.  it was a glimmer of hope that things would turn in the right direction on aruba.
dennisintn

AUM sleuths get Holloway case
Article Link (http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080228/NEWS02/802280314/1009)

Yeah Rob, no shortage of car accidents or problems with chollers in Aruba.  ::MonkeyWink::

thanks vms

I agree with both of you, totally!   ::MonkeyCool::

Klaas did you see that particularly bad one with all the blood?

In the comments section someone questions if this was attempted murder. I say good luck proving that one on Aruba, especially after Croes seems to have just walked on his charge... and it is Aruba we're talking about . . .

I also saw an incident at the Black Hog Saloon.

From the little I can understand it seems that Mr. Nico Jorg is to retire in September I think. 

From your link:

The cold cases were chosen because of two specific forensic characteristics the students have not had the opportunity to study in the past. One is an underwater crime scene component that is related to the Holloway case. The other addresses forensic anthropology throughout the Levy case.

I wonder what that crime scene component is?

GBMW

RU is not really an information seeking forum.  Any "real" info is disseminated in the "hidey hole" or other "secret/private" sites and then PM'd to certain posters to disseminate dis information.  The Gielen trash was tested there before it ever hit the airwaves.  Believe it or not, there are some more reasonable posters there now, then there ever used to be. It's a "read only" site, for me.  You've held your own pretty well, so far. Good luck.

NICO JORG - ARUBAN ADVOCATE GENERAL/ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL

Holloway Case Conviction No Slam Dunk
Under Aruban Law, Suspect's Own Words Can't Be Used Against Him

By JEFFREY KOFMAN
Feb. 4, 2008

It will be difficult under Aruban law for prosecutors to build a case against Joran Van der Sloot in the Natalee Holloway case, according to Nico Jörg, Aruba's advocate general, and acting attorney general.

In an interview with ABC News, Jörg outlined several possible options for prosecuting the young Dutch/Aruban man, a suspect in the disappearance of the Alabama teen, who went to the island on holiday more than two years ago.

Jörg emphasized that there are fundamental differences between the laws of the United States and laws in Aruba. For example, there is no trial by jury in this tiny island nation of just 103,000 citizens. All trials are by judge only. A suspect's own words can't be used to implicate him or her, and there is no such thing as perjury for a suspect in Aruba.

The acting attorney general said prosecutors will look at the following possible charges:  

AIDING AND ABETTING FIRST DEGREE MURDER — Possible sentence: Life in prison. This would require prosecutors to prove "conditional intent" on the part of Van der Sloot. In the undercover videotape obtained by a Dutch journalist, Van der Sloot says he can't say for sure that Holloway was actually dead when he called a friend to help him dispose of her body, after she passed out on the beach and began shaking uncontrollably. Jörg told ABC News that to prove this charge, prosecutors would need medical experts to talk about the effects of alcohol poisoning on a body.

INJURY TO HEALTH CAUSING DEATH — Possible sentence: 6 to 9 years. Prosecutors would want to prove that Van der Sloot knowingly gave Holloway too much alcohol. In previous statements, he has admitted giving her a drink of Bacardi 151, which is 75 percent alcohol.

ACCIDENTAL DEATH — Possible sentence: 9 months. Prosecutors would have to demonstrate that Van der Sloot did not take reasonable precautions when he noticed Holloway was unconscious. 

Doesn't that just figure.  They JUST DON'T GET IT!  Don't want to hear the truth, let alone from somebody who knows him and might shed some light on his true sick self.   From sombody who knows him personally!  I'm sorry your friend had to experience there hate and ignorance.   I really would hate to meet those people in person, or have one of them live/work near me.  I do hope your friend joins us some time.  She would be welcomed with open arms.   We just want the truth, not to spew ignorant remarks at people for no reason....  That's THERE loss!  ::MonkeyWink::

Not to add confusion to confusion, but I was reading old thing from RWV last night and came across a couple interesting things.  These posts were on the morning of June 11, 2005 and talked about a sixth arrest....maybe Freddy or Koen were brought in??

Another arrest has just been made.
Posted by: Shari | Saturday, June 11, 2005 at 10:32 AM

In a recent press conference the authorities said that they are aware of some rumors that is going on since yesterday night, but they are not confirming them neighter denying them and they are at the point that this case will be resolve soon. And that all the five suspects are deteintI think we will have soon news in the next hours.
Posted by: glenda | Saturday, June 11, 2005 at 11:46 AM

I agree. Six arrests and one of them is finally talking. We should know something soon. Still waiting for the news on FOX, they said something will be coming up shortly.[/i]
Posted by: Shari | Saturday, June 11, 2005 at 11:56 AM



Then I found this....maybe Paulus had a small (one) party at his house....or maybe the boy Sloots have a party house??


Maybe Paulus Van Der Sloot's mistress could be of assistance. This particular one is not in Aruba. Just a suggestion.
Posted by: Anon | Tuesday, September 27, 2005 at 10:53 AM


Didn't we all think Joran confessed Saturday night then poof by Monday??

Wasn't that the one at Baby Beach?  The people were hit by a car?  It was the white car with all the blood on it?

Aruban Attorney General Nico Jorg implied that new evidence would warrant the detention of the Joran, Deepak and Satish when they were released in December, 2007.  However ... Joran's own incriminating words in the Devries video/recording were disregarded.

Janet

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

+++++++++++++


http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/12/20/news/Aruba-Missing-Teen.php

Aruba prosecutor: Holloway suspect referred to teen's death in Internet chat

The Associated PressPublished: December 20, 2007

ORANJESTAD, Aruba: A main suspect in the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway wrote in a chat session that she was dead — a key clue for investigators, but one that fell short of assuring a conviction in court, Aruba's chief prosecutor said Thursday.

The prosecutor Hans Mos insisted his office has done its best to learn what happened to Holloway, an 18-year-old who went missing in this Caribbean island on May 30, 2005 and is believed to be dead.

Mos said he has done all he can to bring those responsible to justice.

"Given our sincere commitment to solving this case, we exhausted our toolbox," he said at a news conference.

The Aruban prosecutors say they cannot prove a crime was committed without a body.

Mos said he understands the frustration of Holloway's family, which has criticized Aruban law enforcement and their decision this week to dismiss the case against the three main suspects.

Attorney General Nico Jorg said the case against the three could be reopened if additional evidence surfaces. But if they were to go to trial now with virtually no hope of guilty verdicts, they would lose the opportunity to try them later if strong evidence emerges.

"After a final acquittal, it is legally impossible to reinstate a prosecution," Jorg said in a statement. "(We are) hoping better times will arrive eventually."

The family blames mistakes by Aruban investigators for bringing the case to a dead end after more than two years of searching for Holloway, who vanished during a vacation with her high school graduating class.

Mos refused to reveal which of the three suspects wrote the Internet chat message, but said its discovery contributed to the decision last month to re-arrest the men.

Joran van der Sloot and brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe were subsequently released after they refused to speak to authorities, and the Aruba Public Prosecutor's Office announced they would not be charged.

The three were seen leaving a bar with Holloway hours before she was due to board a flight home to Mountain Brook, Ala. Van der Sloot, who now attends college in the Netherlands, said he left Holloway alone on a beach that night. He and the Kalpoe brothers have denied any wrongdoing.

Mos said Internet messages between two of the three suspects discussed a "way of operating they had, of picking up American girls" on the Caribbean island, where American visitors enjoying the 18-year-old drinking age go from bars to nightclubs late into the night.

An attorney for van der Sloot said his client is innocent.

"There is absolutely no evidence against Joran," attorney Joseph Tacopina told The Associated Press. "People were misled. As far as I'm concerned, the case is over."

Ronald Wix, an attorney for the Kalpoe brothers, ridiculed what prosecutors described as new evidence.

"All they did was recycle old evidence and claim it was new evidence," Wix told the AP, adding that his clients felt vindicated by the decision to drop the case.

Mos said witnesses have described the three suspects as behaving strangely in the hours after Holloway vanished. He refused to reveal details of other evidence, which he said was gathered through new investigative techniques and a listening device in one of the suspect's homes.

The three remain "the primary three persons of interest," Mos said. "Any and all leads and new evidence will be investigated."

Holloway's stepfather, Jug Twitty, said he believes witnesses on the Dutch Caribbean island know what happened but are not coming forward.

Two years of complaints about the handling of the investigation prompted calls for a tourism boycott by Alabama Gov. Bob Riley and other U.S. officials.

The criticism upset Arubans, many of whom searched beaches and hillsides for the missing teen. They hope the Holloway case can be put in the past.

affirmative

I meant to say three, not the

This is very interesting... anyone have the dates KJ was not on Aruba? Her 'lil vacation getaways..

I think I need caesu.  There is a pdf link at the bottom of the article I'm going to post (I can't figure out the direct pdf link).  Click on Job Cohen over...... I am quoting part of the translation from page 11 of the pdf.  It explains the OM job in Aruba.  I don't think Mos is in charge of anything.  I think only the Aruban OM is (?Lugo?). Did I get this correct??

The Dutch OM has aligned itself
No interference with criminal cases moving
Play to the overseas islands. That the
Dutchman Hans Mos in the broadcast
Peter R. De Vries statements made about Joran
Van der Sloot is verklaarbaar. The Chief
Works for the Aruban OM.
And it has been let for Aruban
Know that the research is a re -
Started.

and what is verklaarbaar ??      ::MonkeyConfused::

Shoot...forgot link:

http://juridischdagblad.nl/content/view/6388/53/

I wonder if compensation claims are public record in Aruba?  Maybe the filings and the rewards?

Maybe someone is already enjoying a new home in Spain?

That could mean a number of things.  SA, Curacao, Bonaire, Florida, and anywhere else the VDS travelled frequently.  Why would one not be in Aruba?  How many are there?  mo

Thanks for your post Buckeye. I've learned a bit about RU (very quickly ;-)...) but this gives some more insight. I'm someone that believes Joran was heavily involved in the dissapearance / death of Natalee and that his father & friends (Jorans and his fathers') helped him to cover it up. I don't believe in a total corrupt investigation though.

And it seems there are some weird things concerning the Holloway / Twitty's also. I'm Dutch and the media here haven't given her / the family a lot of attention because their focus (if there was media attention for the case) is on the case itself / the suspects (as it should be I think). But when you start to read on a couple of forums there are some things that makes you wonder. I've been reading serious press mostly so it's confusing me a bit.
And to go back in the archives to catch up would take a lot of time; time I don't want to spend on it...I will just follow my gut feeling; usually works for me ;-). And I don't really want to explore it anyway; it isn't important to me because they haven't got anything to do with what happened that night (as far as I am concerned) and to me they are very much victims also.

Anyway; I'm hoping that this opinion doesn't mean I will be banned from SM  (I've been warned by some posters at RU...probably the ones that worship Joran and really dislike Beth ;-)...I like this forum.

My thought too Rob...IIRC...there was *speculation* about her being Paulus' sweetie ...before the case...long time rumors to that ...

GBMW ... what "things"?

Janet

 ::MonkeyShocked::

EEEEW

verklaarbaar = explainable

 ::MonkeyLaugh::

GBMW

''Anyway; I'm hoping that this opinion doesn't mean I will be banned from SM  (I've been warned by some posters at RU...probably the ones that worship Joran and really dislike Beth ...I like this forum.''

Hello GBMW you can't be banned for you own opinion, this forum is very fair.

GBMW - I think you'll find that the wierd things about the Twitty/Holloway family are fabrications of the posters at RU and from those in Aruba that are trying to protect tourism. 

Blonde ... I am proud to call myself a Monkey because the SM Natalee forum upholds the family in their ongoing quest for answers into the disappearance of their beloved Natalee.

I may not always agree with some opinions/speculations regarding the case and ... that is OK.

However ... I am not tolerate of opinions which undermine Beth, Jug and Dave's motives, words or actions.  I am not tolerant of opinions that uphold the Aruban investigation.  I am not tolerant of opinions that distance Paulus and Joran van der Sloot from implication in the events that encompass the morning of May 30, 2005.

I have left two forums that in time evolved into places that embraced/tolerated differing opinions that included undermining the motives, words and actions of the family of Natalee Holloway ... upholding the corrupt Aruban investigation and ... distancing Paulus and Joran's role in the disappearance of an 18 year old American citizen.

Morally ... I had no choice but to leave those two Natalee Forums.  Staying would have implied a betrayal to a family who has been on a roller coaster ride from H--- since May 30, 2005 compliments of an established Aruban coverup to protect their own.

Janet

Natalee is the victim.  Natalee's family are therefore victims.  We are 1000% behind Natalee's family and their quest for justice.  WE STAND WITH THE GIRL.

If the ultimate goal is truth, one should not be afraid to explore all possible scenarios regardless of people concerned or loyalties based on ones perception of afore mentioned truth. Truth is based on facts not emotions. This being said it does not mean i disagree with you.

Hi Janet,

when you 'read around' there are posts that Beth / the family lied, manipulated...well just about everything ;-).
To give you an example...a recent thing: if Jorans confession is true in general (which she believes) why isn't Beth 'mad' at Daury but seems to express anger only towards Joran in interviews?

Daury is the one that dumped Natalee in the ocean; and in that way the possible murderer of Natalee. Of course Joran was the one that was with Natalee and didn't get help; he started the whole cover up & lied about it for years - made money of it...

But Daury is the one who disposed of Natalee....the one that actually threw her daughter in the ocean while Joran was walking home / chatting / downloading porn. And yet she doesn't mention any anger in her recent press towards him. She did state in the Peter R. de Vries show 'Look at what they've done' but after this it seems she stayed quiet concerning Daury.....


Maybe she's only doing this because Joran is the only one she knows the true identity of and the one who holds a big responsibility...maybe she doubts the Daurypart in the confession...could all be...but it seems a bit weird.

My guess is Beth doesn't believe the Daury story at all.  She probably believes the person who helped him was his father.  Beth has already given her opinion of PVDS as has Peter R. di Vries  ::MonkeyWink::

I think with all the hell Beth and Dave and thier families have been put through.....Beth and Dave KNOW what a low down dirty liar joran is.Beth may have found SOME peace from hearing joran state that Natalee was on the beach and possibly died there.IMO Beth knows she was drugged by joran and no matter what,she did recieve some peace from that knowing.IMO Beth and Dave are the most qualified to know that joran ain't nothing but a liar,a bad seed and I will follow what ever they believe about joran.....it was THIER daughter who was murdered by the scumbag POS so in my eyes......they have every right to believe what they want without anyone second guessing thier motives.

Joran is responsible. Daury acted at Joran's request, in his story. And yes, once Daury is determined to be real, and his identity is known, then she will hold him responsible. If she hated every character in Joran's resume of stories, she would be very busy. I am a little confused with what you are trying to imply. Should Dauby mitigate her anger for Joran or his responsibility? Are you implying she is blaming the wrong person? That it is daury that she should hold responsible? I am not disagreeing, but it is obvious you have a position that you wish to establish, and I am not disagreeing, but I can't quite follow it

JE ... in my opinion ... a dialogue that shifts the focus of attention from the main suspects and the corrupt Aruban investigation ... to the family of the victim ... the family who were not on the Island when Natalee Holloway went missing ... is a distraction from the truth that encompassing the events of May 30, 2005.

Joran, Deepak and Satish were the last persons observed with Natalee Holloway.  Joran, Deepak and Satish lied regarding their final encounter with Natalee Holloway.  Lies are created to cover the truth which implies that Joran, Deepak and Satish know the truth.

Think about it ... Joran, Deepak and Satish must have been aware that Natalee Holloway was deceased when they related the Holiday Inn dropoff.  Logic dictates that these guys would not collaborate an account that could be refuted if Natalee were to turn up.

Janet

+++++++++++

Beth Twitty
NANCY GRACE
August 29, 2005

GRACE: Beth, what was his first story to you? What was the first story they told you?

HOLLOWAY TWITTY: The first story -- and you know, Nancy, I was not in the group when they were giving this information. Jug and the rest of the group that flew in with us were there. But he was stating that he had dropped Natalee off, and that he and Deepak and Satish had dropped her off at the Holiday Inn, when she got out of the car she stumbled, fell, hit her head, got up, and two security guards met her there at the entrance.

And you know, Deepak was standing right there. And we were even taken to the Holiday Inn and parked in front of the entrance to the Holiday Inn to show us that that`s where they had dropped her off. I mean, it`s right when you walk into the Holiday Inn.  

And then as everyone knows, on June 2nd I reviewed the video footage of the people coming into the Holiday Inn, and Natalee Holloway -- Natalee never entered the Holiday Inn.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/29/ng.01.html

That could be an explanation indeed...only a dad would probably tell someone to go to school the next day...not a criminal youngster ;-)
Was Peter R. de Vries very negative about Paulus in the American press? In Holland he usually only mentioned the things that he could back up...although his looks towards Joran and his dad at the Pauw & Wittemanshow sometimes said more than a thousand words ;-). I have nothing to do with it...sitting at home and I got chills seeing some of his looks....brrrr.

I imagine Beth got chills listening to Joran recite that the only care he provided Natalee was "to shake the bitch," or when he mimicked Natalee's shaking, or when he said he ordered her dumped in the ocean, dead or alive, he didn't care, it didn't matter, he didn't bother to find out. And the poor little boy and his daddy had to withstand those harsh looks from a reporter. Perspective is everything

personally, I have no doubt that Joran and all knew Natalee was dead when whatever became of her. No one just disappears a living person. There was a reason for that...

Logic dictates that these guys would not collaborate an account that could be refuted if Natalee were to turn up.

If she turned up all previous would be meaningless. I paniced and made up a story would be accepted but not even relevant if she turned up. Just a few kids lying for whatever reason. But she didn't turn up. I am not that sure about kalpoes knowing the truth, more inclined to believe that joran knows the truth. The point i was trying to make is that it does not matter what I or you believe. That's just venting personal opinion based on personal perception. Ther's just so many loose ends in this case. We need facts not opinions. And in that light you should read my comment about exploring all possible scenarios. Speculation or opinions won't get a conviction. The truth is out there. Like the codetalkers said hidden in plain sight. I can't see it yet and that pi$%es me off. It's there and someone will make the connection someday. All i meant with previous post was: keep an open mind things are never black n white. Question everything.

I agree 100%. The only black and white fact in this case is that Joran is guilty and a liar:)

Joran is responsible. Daury acted at Joran's request, in his story. And yes, once Daury is determined to be real, and his identity is known, then she will hold him responsible. If she hated every character in Joran's resume of stories, she would be very busy. I am a little confused with what you are trying to imply. Should Dauby mitigate her anger for Joran or his responsibility? Are you implying she is blaming the wrong person? That it is daury that she should hold responsible? I am not disagreeing, but it is obvious you have a position that you wish to establish, and I am not disagreeing, but I can't quite follow it

Cut some of the post (otherwise it would be very long).
I meant she hardly (if she did at all) mentioned him in recent press while his huge contribution is obviously there.
I do think that if Natalee was still alive the person that threw her in the ocean is the murderer and Joran an accomplice. That doesn't say anything about the way I feel about the rest of Jorans actions though  ::MonkeyWink::

Don't know for sure if Joran asked Daury to dump Natalee? Was that piece in the confession clear?
If Daury is Paulus; one could think that his dad would have said something like: help me get her in this boat and go home.

And Janet my personal opinion:
Did he kill her: I can't say for sure
Does he know more: YES
Should he face repercussions if only for the way he acted on de vries tapes: YES

But then that's just my opinion and it's worth squat

You probably misunderstood my post? I wasn't implying that I felt sorry for Joran and his father / mother...

GBMW ... why do you have to analysis Beth's reaction.  Can you not just give this anguished mother the benefit of the doubt that her response has a foundation.

Joran was in a position to get help for her daughter who was in distress.  What did he do?  He call on an unknown assistance with a boat to take her out to sea and dump her.  In otherwords ... a hitman.

It makes perfect sense to me that Beth's anger would be focused on Joran.  Joran put the chain of events into motion that led to Natalee's death ... Natalee's disappearance.

Janet


++++++++++++

Holloway Suspect: 'I Know What Happened'
Dutch Student Said Natalee Holloway's Body Was Dumped in the Ocean
February 3, 2008

In one taped conversation, van der Sloot told van der Eem that Holloway visibly convulsed "like a movie," that she was shaking "a lot."
 
"Did you try CPR on her?" asked van der Eem.
 
"Of course, I tried everything," van der Sloot said. "I tried to shake her. I was shaking the bitch. I was like, 'What is wrong with you man?' I almost wanted to cry. Why does this s*** have to happen to me?"

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=4222253&page

verklaarbaar means explicable

JE  thanks for translation.

GBMW (and JE)

I have never wasted my time analyzing actions of Natalee's family when they were not on the island and could not have been involved in her loss.  My concern was for my petite, blonde, 105 pound, traveling-the-world, daughter (who can enjoy a wine or two).  I could see it happening to me and mine.  My daughter is wise but also interested in "cultural" experiences and different people.  Natalee's loss happened in four days of leaving home.  Whatever influence, power, resources they could or can muster....I say use everything available or offered. There are many that are not afforded as many resources but that does not make the family that has help, an inferior family.
I don't know what's in Beth's mind or heart but it was just over a month ago that a tip sent them to Nicaragua.  Imagine always having a doubt of what happened...what to do...where to search.  I think it is reasonable to have doubted Joran because of all his lies.  If he was innocent, this would have been over long ago. The big question was "was Natalee still alive somewhere".  We know she quoted Joran's early statements accurately because between the PVs and his book we have seen many. All she said is that "those three boys know more".  She was right.  Joran kept her with a 1% chance of "do I need to search forever"...until he demonstrated her daughters distress, on video.  It doesn't matter who did the "final" disposal.  Her mother's instincts and the material many PIs, investigative reporters and profilers gathered was accurate.  Joran knew what happened to Natalee and did not care about anyone still searching for her. She pleaded with him the first night, she pleaded with his friend, she pleaded with his parents. Joran deserves every angry word directed at him. If he had said on day one, she seized and I gave her to a boat guy, she would have searched for Natalee by searching out the boat guy.   It's all about Natalee.

This is certainly only my opinion and if it is inappropriate, please feel free to delete.  I don't know a lot about posting at forums, actually I don't know ANYTHING about posting.  I just know that I have followed this case from the very start and it broke my heart and filled me with such outrage at the injustice of it all.  I don't feel like I am part of the SM group but I feel comfortable here reading and learning.  I have read at other forums and one in particular is filled with such hate and venom for Natalee and her family that it sickens me to read there.  I just can't believe some of the vile things said there and don't understand how anyone could possibly feel that way about Natalee and her family since they are the victims in this situation. 

Just the fact that Joran and PVDs said they "know more but won't tell it now because it would hurt certain people".  Unbelievable!!  A young woman is missing/murdered, her family is devasted, and the Sloots are worried about hurting certain people!  WHO?  WHO CARES!  This family has been HURT beyond comprehension.  Not one of the suspects has been held accountable for any of their lies and actions.  People think Beth has acted inappropriately.  Give me a break.  Beth and Dave, etal, have done exactly what all parents should do - FIGHT LIKE HELL FOR JUSTICE FOR THEIR DAUGHTER!

Just my opinion - like I said you can delete if you want - I don't know where to post what so this might not even be the place to post the above comments. 

Thanks for letting me vent 




 

I bet if you asked the monkeys they would tell you that you are a part of the group, a much needed and wanted poster. I appreciate you:)

BRAVO!!  Post of the day!  I agree with you 100%!

No need to delete your post it's fine.

The people who said Beth acted inappropriately were the ones who murdered her daughter and covered up the crime.

Acting inappropriately to me is when Beth was sitting in the Sloot's home and that fat skank Anita Van der Sloot was describing what her son did to her daugher knowing damn well that Natalee was dead.

KYcat ... thank you for your heartfelt post.

Janet

KYcat

I hear you and share the same emotions.

Hi Janet,
you asked for the things that make me wonder a bit sometimes. I gave you an example...that's all. I haven't thought of Beth / Natalee's family in any other way then they are the victims. To me it's about what happened to Natalee and who's responsible for what happened to her (I don't believe she committed suicide). Her family & friends deserve to know this & those responsible for her fate deserve to be held accountable for their actions.

KYcat...You are Definitely a MONKEY...Your above post proves that to Me....Thank You for saying what IMO is felt by Most of the MONKEYS  ::MonkeyCool:: YOU ROCK!  ::MonkeyDance::

GBMW .... I sincerely apologize if I over reacted.

Janet

Thank You  Monkeys.  A great big thank you for all your hard work and research.  The Monkeys have brought so much information out on this case that I otherwise would never have known about.  I don't know how y'all do it.  If I can ever contribute anything that will help the cause I will certainly post it.  But I appreciate just being able to read and learn here.  Thanks again. 

Oh, and I'm sure we will show up on that "other site".  They seem to take such joy from bashing anyone that supports Natalee and family. 

One more thing, if the "other site" is reading this.....  Beth has acted with the utmost graciousness throughout this whole nightmare.  As a mother of four children, I can tell you that I would NOT have been so gracious if this had happened to one of mine.  I would have already ripped their F..... faces off.  Take a poll on that ..........
 :smt096

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Not my wording but ... my sentiments exactly.

Please post more often KYcat.  You are a Monkey through and through.

Janet

The reaction came from the right perspective so you're forgiven  ::MonkeyWink::

I'm off to bed; it's 03:45 for me...bedtime! Luckily I don't have to get up early.

I totally agree!  ::MonkeyWink::

Good Night Monkeys

God Bless

Janet
8:00 PM

Goodnight Janet, and God Bless you too.

Nice post KYcat! Your getting me all pumped up!!!!  ::MonkeyWink::

Looks like Awemainta has been hacked also! :(

KYcat... ::MonkeyDance::

I've just caught up and had to post something before saying

g'nite all.

KYcat, it sounds like you're right at home here.  your head and heart are in the right place so sound off at will.
dennisintn

San,  ::MonkeyLaugh:: @ fat skank

 




 

Anybody that would bash Beth in any form or fashion is weird and ignorant. JMHO

Goodnight Monkeys!!

Keep up the GOOD FIGHT!

 :smt109 (I hope my smiley is giving the peace sign -  I'm a child of the 70's)


 ::MonkeyWink::

Good Night KYcat!

Goodnight KYcat! 

Goodnight Everyone!

Hi Guys!  ::MonkeyWink::

I think there are lots of reasons Beth would focus on Joran with her feelings. She was face to face with him within hours of Natalee's disappearance, and she can measure his reaction that night in light of what he admitted to, later in the confession. She also fought hard to have him held accountable according to all the mounting evidence throughout the case. She has said many times that the "not knowing" what happened to Natalee was the absolute hardest part and she knows that Joran chose to put her through that. By all accounts, Joran was the one that Natalee left with and she believes, as most people do, that he drugged her. Joran thought of his own butt when Natalee was suffering and dying, instead of taking any measure to help her. The only possible help she could have received was dependent upon Joran and he chose to worry about himself rather than give her a chance to live. She has watched him go free over and over again, knowing he knew the answers she was desperate for.

I'm not sure anyone, including Beth, is 100% sure Joran's tale about Daury is true. She may wonder if Daury is Paulus, but she knows, indeed heard it from his own mouth, that Joran was with Natalee when she died and that he didn't lift a finger to help her. She's directed her anger at Joran and also some at Paulus, very appropriately. To a lesser degree, I've seen her seem frustrated and somewhat angry at Deepak and Satish and I believe that's because she knows they know more than what they are saying. They have stood in the way of a Mother even being giving the decency of knowing what happened to her daughter, at the very least and also holding information for the responsible parties being brought to justice.That's also very appropriate. Lastly, Beth has shown some anger towards the law enforcement persons that certainly have hindered the investigation and also kept justice from going forward. All of those reactions are very appropriate, IMO.

Great Post CBB! From All Indications Joran Started This Horrible Event and Beth has Every Right to Feel The Way She does About Him!

Good Night All!

O/T but I know how we love our Photoshop here.   ::MonkeyCool::

Free Web version of Photoshop launches
By AMANDA FEHD, Associated Press Writer

SAN FRANCISCO - The maker of the popular photo-editing software Photoshop on Thursday launched a basic version available for free online.

San Jose, Calif.-based Adobe Systems Inc. says it hopes to boost its name recognition among a new generation of consumers who edit, store and share photos online.

While Photoshop is designed for trained professionals, Adobe says Photoshop Express, which it launched in a "beta" test version, is easier to learn. User comments will be taken into account for future upgrades.

Photoshop Express will be completely Web-based so consumers can use it with any type of computer, operating system and browser. And, once they register, users can get to their accounts from different computers.

Web-based software is increasingly popular, and Adobe knows it's got to get on that train, said Kathleen Maher, an analyst at Jon Peddie Research.

Many kinds of software are available for use online in a trend known as "software as a service," or "cloud computing." The earliest were e-mail programs, but they now include services to create and manage content and even whole operating systems. And they don't require time-consuming upgrades because they're maintained by the service provider.

Google Inc. provides a host of such services, as do Microsoft Corp. and others.

"This is the battlefield where Adobe and Microsoft and Google are going to fight some pretty big battles," Maher said.

Photoshop enters the online photo-management arena many years after such services first appeared. Some companies have already made a big name for themselves, like 9-year-old storage solution Shutterfly Inc., photo-editing service Picnik or image-sharing site Photobucket Inc.

Adobe says providing Photoshop Express for free is part marketing and part a strategy to create up-sell opportunities. It hopes some customers will move from it to boxed software like its $99 Photoshop Elements or to a subscription-based version of Express that's in the works.

Ron Glaz, a research analyst at IDC, says the move was necessary for Adobe to keep pace. Users are less likely to switch to a software they aren't familiar with, he said.

"They have a whole market that they are missing out on, and they need to make sure that the market is aware there is a Photoshop solution for them. As that market grows and becomes more sophisticated, hopefully it will generate money," Glaz said.

"It's one of those things, if you can't beat them, join them," Glaz said. "If they don't join them, the long run could be really painful."

___

On the Web: http://www.photoshop.com/express
****************************
Go to it Monkeys!!!

 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

Glad to have you here KYcat..

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-10/867511/WelcomeBanner.gif)

Exactly!  Excellent post CBB...

p.s.  CBB...I know how very busy you are...sometime in the future...do you think the very talented YOU, can dress me in a new AVI...one with a headphone/telephone thingie?...it seems appropriate...TIA...Destiny ;-)

Morning all. I have been quiet for a while, but still here reading everyday. The comment by KYcat re: 'people would be hurt' made me come out of the woodwork, lol. I cannot recall which one (PvdS or Joran) said it this way:  "TOO MANY people would be hurt" .
~~
Can you say......HOUSE OF CARDS??????????

Good morning Monkeys!  After nearly 3 years of lurking, I finally decided to sign up.  Like all of you, I was fascinated with this story from the beginning.  I've enjoyed keeping up with the latest news on the case through SM and feel that I know many of you already.  Red, Klaas, and all Monkeys should be very proud of all the contributions that this community has made to the NH investigation. While more answers are needed, it goes without saying that without SM keeping this case alive, we'd know far less than we do at this point.  It's a refreshing feeling to see a group of people that give so much of themselves, of their time, and care so much for this young woman and her family.  I'm just thankful that I've been able to be a part of it (albeit silently, until now).

I've had some personal issues lately (sick family member) and have been unable to keep up as much as I normally do.  After some very "rushed" catching-up, it appears there's really no new news over the past couple weeks?  Any recent word on the whereabouts of that lying, scumsucking POS, better known as JVDS?  Any updates out of Aruba?  I have a feeling the PDV continues to look for answers and, hopefully, something will turn up soon (either thru him or someone else).  Any word on the remaining targets that need to be searched in the ocean (plans to return and complete the search)?

Again, thanks for all you guys do, and have done, for the family and the case.  While I don't know any of them personally, I know they are extremely thankful to have such a great bunch of people supporting their efforts!

Hi Nut...See you are still busy in Missing Person's...Thanks for all the updates!

IIRC that quote came from Paulus. Joran's was he 'wasn't ready to tell it all yet' or words to that effect!

Welcome CarolinaCull...Nice to have you join us...

PDV has new shows coming soon, not sure what he has going on with Natalee's case though. Our Dutch posters are more up with this than I am, sorry!

HI MUM... Joran will tell more someday, but not ready to do that now. - Current Affair interview when he was ambushed after school in Arnheim.

Paulus would tell more, but too many other people would be hurt. Not exactly sure where this quote is attributed... but he did say it.

Paul van der Sloot said in a phone conversation with Peter de Vries that they had a lot to tell but they will not do that just now because of people involved who could be hurt by this information

Hi Rob and Thanks...I think Paulus' comment was made in Holland, one of his interviews, but don't quote me...LOL...Thanks *******!

I guess Joran was ready in the Land Rover... and Hans Mos only requests one interview. Sheezz!!!

Morning Everyone!

Hans is aware they both said those statements and would tell more at there choosing,he said on record why not now when he arrested Joran..Unfortunately PVDS told Joran to say nothing and he followed the fatherly advice. When JK2 said nothing Hans said he expected it :(

Amigoe.com

No settlement yet public employees and government

During a meeting in the union building of the Seppa in Hato yesterday afternoon, more than 100 public employees listened to the results of the special committee about the labour conflict.

ORANJESTAD – Despite the special committee that was set up through the judge last week, the public employees and the government didn’t get closer to one another on the labour conflict.  The ultimatum that both parties agreed upon in the courtroom in Wayaca lapsed yesterday at noon, without success.

According to union leader Magaly Bito, this is reason for new actions.  On behalf of the protesting public employees, she gives the government till Monday to come with a ‘better proposal’ than was offered during the negotiations.  “We will go on strike again on Tuesday if the government does not come with an agreement on the indexation of the salaries”, said Brito during a meeting in the Seppa union building yesterday that was attended by more than 100 members.   

It seems that since the special committee was established, the government and the unions are further apart than ever.  Instead of Easter Monday as was agreed in court, the parties met on Good Friday already.  During that meeting, the government proposed right away to pay the public employees 65 florins per month in compensations.  Brito, who represents the unions in the committee, rejected that immediately.  The deliberation continued on Saturday and on Sunday.  All viewpoints were finally discussed on Monday, but yesterday it appeared that the parties didn’t make much progress.  The unions were talking about their rights and the government was talking about what is financially feasible, considering the budget and the financial deficit.  If the government goes for the demands of the unions, it will have to go at the expense of the entire Aruban economy, says Finance-minister Nilo Swaen.

Based on the report of the committee conversations, the judge will make a decision, but he can also send the parties back to the negotiation table. 

CORRECT FIGURES

The unions and the government disagree mainly about the correct interpretation of the figures.  According to the public employees, the government manipulates the figures.  The government first wanted to pay 950 florins compensation per year, which is 80 florins per month, but now they are talking about 65 florins per month.  According to calculations, 65 florins per month would mean 14 million florins on the budget of the government.  There was nobody available at Bureau Information or the ministry of Finance that could give more information on this.



OM appeals five cases

ORANJESTAD – The Public Prosecutor (OM) has appealed five decisions of the Court in the Fondo Desaroyo Nobo (FDN) case.  The OM wants the Joint Court of the Neth.Antilles and Aruba to go into the verdicts of the judge in the cases against former Premier Henny Eman, Tico Croes, Ronald Sint Jago, Otmar Oduber, and Roy Maduro.  The OM announced this in a press release on Tuesday.

In the case against Henny Eman, the OM wants the Joint Court of Justice to decide on the question if and under what conditions ministers are individually liable for decisions made in the council of ministers.  The OM also wants clarity on the status of a so-called explanatory memorandum on the budget.  If in the budget is described in details what certain moneys are to be spend on, is it allowed to use these moneys on something else?  More clarity on the budget overspending in the years 1999-2001 is also important for the OM.  The judge decided that it is not up to the Court in First Instance to calculate and compare everything.  He said that these issues need more considerations.

In the case against the director of Finance, Ronald Sint Jago, the OM wants the Court to decide on to what extent St. Jago was aware that the contracting rules were not complied with and if it was his responsibility to make sure these rules were complied with.

BRIBERY

In the case of Otmar Oduber, the then financial employee of the office of the Finance-minister, the OM appeals the verdict of the judge, who acquitted him on all charges, even on bribery.  The OM is of the opinion that the Appeals Court should consider the dossier some more and decide on the amounts of money paid to the suspect.   

The OM also appeals the verdict of Finance-minister Tico Croes, who was acquitted on all charges.   The OM is of the opinion that Croes must be judged again based on evidence of bribery.

I just wanted to add to the discussions yesterday about Joran..
----------------------------------------

Joran van der Sloot’s neighbour: “Joran bragged about what happened with Natalee”

Joran van der Sloot was living untill recently together with 3 other students in an apartment in Arnhem.

According to his neighbour, Joran was a very intimidating young man. “ When I would complain about the noise or called the police, he threatened me. I have lived in fear for almost 2 years.”.

Jorans neighbour does not want to say everything about Joran yet, she prefers to wait untill the show of Peter r. de Vries is broadcasted.

“ From the moment on that he came to live here, short after what happened in Aruba, I had a tensed relationship with Joran and his fellow students, they were causing a lot of noise, under the influence of alcohol or drugs. If I would say something about it, Joran threatened me. Several times I went to the police and pressed charges”.

According to the neighbour, Joran was very clear and noisy about what happened between him and Natalee Holloway. “ He was bragging about it to his friends, I can hear anything through these walls. He also said strange things during parties. He was very disrespectful towards Natalee. The guys he was living with heart the details several times. I don’t understand that the police didn’t talk to them yet.”.

Joran van der Sloots former neighbour knows who the man is that tricked Joran with a hidden camera. “When I picked it all up right in the news, it’s the man who suddenly became a regular visitor at the house. He was older, from Aruba. He was befriended with Joran and also always present at the parties.”.

http://www.natalee-holloway-case.com/joran-van-der-sloots-neighbour-joran-bragged-about-what-happened-with

Two articles in todays Solo Di Pueblo about Jossy. This is a MEP newspaper so I am assuming they are blasting Jossy in this paper.

(http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/1600/jossyrm6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

******* ... In the ACA interview ... Joran words mirrored Paulus'.

Janet

++++++++++

Joran van der Sloot
A CURRENT AFFAIR
September 26, 2005

Harris Faulkner:  Well, I think if you can explain to people what really happened, and you were really forthcoming, the more forthcoming you are, the more chance there will be for you to get on with your life.
 
Joran van der Sloot: One day, I will explain exactly what happened, but, right now, I don’t feel ready to do that.

Yes, It seems that was the pre-planned, pat answer.

Jug Twitty
NANCY GRACE
February 15, 2008

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): How were you so sure she was dead, Joran? You can`t. You know, people can also go into comas.  

JORAN VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): Yes, I wasn`t sure about that, but it really scared me to death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): No, but I understand that. I definitely understand that, that you were scared. Did you really prod her and stuff?

VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): No, no, but it didn`t look good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): How didn`t it look good, then?

VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): Just, you know, she`d been shaking and stuff.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): What, really shaking?

VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): Yes, I don`t know, yes, pretty much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I`m asking you. How were you so (expletive deleted) she was dead, man?

VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I wasn`t sure.

<snipped>

(END VIDEOTAPE) 

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/15/ng.01.html

Yup..Almost seems like they are talking about a sporting event or something instead of a missing girl..Makes me angry as hell that they can say or do most anything and never have to face justice,or tell Natalee's loved ones what they did with her.

  Just remember if you can get into it, others can also.  PAINT SHOP PRO is a better program if you learn it and you have more control over it.  Most of these new programs are set up and privacy is compromised.  Virus' are spread through pictures and music in many instances.  Just thought I would throw that in. 
It seems you have to watch a lot of new things and "improved" things coming on the market.   j/b

There are always "strings" attached to free things.  I use several programs in conjunction with one another at times.  No program has all the features.  Easier is not always better, as someone is out there with access.  Just be careful if you have evidential pictures for cases in there or what you want protected such as your family pictures.  Keep these on an outside disk that is not for sharing, etc.
Well, enough said on that.  I just wanted to keep the "cage" around the monks.
J/b

He an Palus both made an admission in that case.  The only people they don't want to hurt is themselves.  They know if the other people are going to be hurt, then they will go down with it.  jack blue

I agree as well.Complete and utter Graciousness.What a special Family Natalee has.My blood just starts to boil when i think of Joran and his fanily and friends.If you are a friend of that family after what they've said and done.Shame on you.OK.I'm stopping before i.......

Keepthefaith

Considering the interrogation questions presented to Jug and Beth on May 31, 2005 ... maybe the Court which disregarded Joran's words on the Devries video recording concerning the "shaking of Natalee Holloway" ... should have read Joran's missing May 31, 2005 statement.

Also ... I assume that Freddie's statement which Joran refers to in his book was overlooked.

Both these statements would have corroborated Joran's words to Patrick vander Eem.

Janet

+++++++++++


February 15, 2008
Court of Appeal upholds lower judge’s decision not to detain J.v.d.S.
J.v.d.S remains prime suspect
Judicial investigation continues

<snipped>

The Office of the Public Prosecutor had requested such an order after the “Peter R de Vries-tapes” had been received by the Office and had been evaluated. Last week the Office appealed the ruling of refusal by the judge.

The reasons underlying the Court’s decision are the following.  The Court has seen the visual materials, has listened to the audio materials and has inspected the verbatim reports. Based on that, the Court is of the opinion that there is a lack of sufficient facts and circumstances substantiating serious grounds for the suspicion of the suspect’s involvement in the crimes for which he is being held responsible by the prosecution.

<snipped>


Joran van der Sloot
ABC NEWS
February 3, 2008

In one taped conversation, van der Sloot told van der Eem that Holloway visibly convulsed "like a movie," that she was shaking "a lot."
 
"Did you try CPR on her?" asked van der Eem.
 
"Of course, I tried everything," van der Sloot said. "I tried to shake her. I was shaking the bitch. I was like, 'What is wrong with you man?' I almost wanted to cry. Why does this s*** have to happen to me?"

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=4222253&page


Beth Twitty
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
February 8, 2008

HOLLOWAY: Well, Larry, I think that a lot of people have kind of stepped into this tangled web, into Joran's web, well into this journey, and we -- we have a lot of thing that were transpiring early on in the island of Aruba, within the first 48 hours of Natalee's disappearance, and had a stunning revelation when I was watching the taped admissions of Joran to Patrick. And, when he imitates how Natalee was suffering through the seizures, well, Larry, within 48 hours of Natalee's disappearance on the island of Aruba, a lead detective, Dennis Jacobs (ph), first and only medical question he asked me was, does Natalee have a history of epilepsy or seizures. And I said, no, why would you ask that?  

And he only asked me that once, and from there forward, three other detectives asked Natalee's step father probably a dozen times, Larry. Jug had to come to me six times and ask me if Natalee had a history of epilepsy or seizure. And I kept saying no, why do you keep asking us that? Why? So, it brought it full circle for us.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/07/lkl.01.html


John Kelly
On the Record w/ Greta
February 20, 2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Twi7-8OqS4
 
KELLY:  Let me throw one more thing in on that Greta.  On May 31st, Joran was the first person interviewed by Jacobs when he's taking statements. Every police report subsequent to that, the statements made by Deepak, made by Satish, made by Beth that day, we have them all, there is no statement from Joran until June 9th.
Unofficial Transcript


Joran van der Sloot
De Zaak Natalee Holloway
Page 161

After Freddy's second statement on June 13th at 18:30, in which he keeps insisting that I told him the first story already on May 30th, the police confront us as best friends with each other.  Some further statements follow after that.  In the end Freddy states in his 6th and 7th statements that I have told him that Natalee went unconscious several times and did not regain consciousness at a certain moment, that I tried to wake her up by shaking her but that but this also did not work.
Unofficial Engish translation

JE ... Joran's words to Freddy as well as the gardener's observation implies to me that Deepak was a participant in the events encompassing the "something bad" that happened to Natalee Holloway.

Janet

+++++++++++

Freddy Arambatzis
Witness Statement
De Zaak Natalee Holloway
June 12, 2005

<snipped>

The next day, Tuesday May 31st 2005 in the afternoon, I was with Joran at the raquetclub. Joran looked worried. He asked me if I could remember what he had said the previous day about the girl. I told him yes. The girl had gone missing. The FBI had been to his house during the night but he had not been home. His father had called him to find out where he was, Joran said that he was in the Raddison Casino. He told he that after that phone call he was called on the phone by Deepak and that Deepak picked him up a few minutes later. They drove to Joran's house. The FBI and the girls family were at his house. After that Joran told me that Deepak, Satish and himself did not drop off the girl at the Holiday Inn Hotel, but that THE FOUR OF THEM drove to the beach at the north side of the Marriot Hotel. The girl had fallen several times on the way to the beach. Joran told me that at some point she "no longer came around/no longer regained consciousness" and that THEY had left her on the beach. He also told me that he had left his gym/sporting shoes on the beach. After Joran had told me this, I asked him why he had left her there. He answered me that at that moment he had not known what to do. Joran told me that after this HE WAS DROPPED OFF AT HOME BY DEEPAK AND SATISH.

Translation Credit: Rammstein


Carlos Ramos - Gardener
Court Hearing
August 15, 2005

I have seen the car in the morning of 30 May of Sunday on Monday. I went to Lorena on Monday night, then I went to work, told that I saw a car standing along the way when I drove along there. I cannot remember on which day I saw the photograph of the persons in the newspaper. The photograph, which the police force showed me, is the same photograph as the photograph that appeared in the Diario. You ask me how can I know or recognize the persons from the photograph in the newspaper or that I had seen that night. The first time then I saw the photograph in the Diario I had been astonished and I said that to colleagues. You represent me that I have explained that I have recognized the persons from their construction and mail hour. You ask me if I could see from my position in the car. My position was a bit is higher, in the turning I had drive concerning a sand hill as a result of which my position was a bit slanted. As a result, I could look at in the car. I have recognized the car from the rims. Also to the color and the transparent squares. You ask me if I can designate the persons, which sat in the car. Yes.


Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
July 26, 2005

MANSUR: Because they were trying to hide their faces at that the hour, because we have to remember that the two Kalpoe brothers and Joran held on to the statement that they dropped Joran off at the beach and then went home. But here we have someone that says categorically that they did not go home, they were in the car with Joran. Joran was sitting in the driver`s seat.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/26/ng.01.html


Beth Twitty
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
February 23, 2006

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ... Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/23/lkl.01.html

*******, you look dapper!   :smt007 :smt007 :smt007

CBB, I have no idea how you do it, but you do such a wonderful job with the avatars. 
 :2notworthy: :smt024 :smt038
You have seen us all nekkid and haven't batted an eyelash!  :smt053

LOL @ Bearly!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Check Musings, Bearly!  ::MonkeyWink::

Sorry j/b, I didn't know.  I would never do anything to hurt the monkeys or our home sweet home.
 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Thanks, CBB, you brought tears to my eyes.  It's the best birthday present I got all week.  :smt058

Welcome to the forum CarolinaCull ...:)

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-10/867511/WelcomeBanner.gif)

Happy Birthday to you sweet BearlyHere..:)

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-10/867511/HappyBirthday19.gif)

now the Moomba website has been hacked, lol  ::MonkeyHaHa::

http://moombabeach.com/

is the hacker leaving an email address for comments?  is there a clue about why this is being done?
dennisintn

This is my favorite Avatar  ::MonkeyCool:: Although CBB always does me right!

Happy Birthday Bearlyhere!!!!!!!!!!

(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7885/happybirthdayfireworks2zo3.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Welcome CarolinaCull!! I love it when long time lurkers join us!!!!

Just thinking out aloud...They could bring Aruba to it's knees...Oh MY!...Did I really say that....Have a great evening everyone!

Happy Birthday Bearlyhere!

wonder who's doing that... seriously, I wonder  ::MonkeyHaHa::

well, know I know who did it... now I wonder why...LOL . . . 82 systems hacked.

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/Darkness2.jpg)

 “He putteth an end to the opposition of Sut”, the power of darkness (ch. 137 B, 2, 3). This, then, is Horus the son of God in the Osirian cult or Jesus in the religion of Atum-Ra, with God the father in the great judgment scenes upon the mount. He comes “to witness the process of Maat (or the judgment) and the lion-forms which belong to it”. He comes to erect the scales of justice for his father, who is “uttering the judgment of Maat”.
http://www.theosophical.ca/Book11AncientEgypt.htm

Ummmm.....eh??????????? :|

 :2boohoo:

From Amigoe translated through google  ::MonkeyWink::

Website Chamber of cracked by Palestinian hackers
March 27, 2008, 18:29 (GMT -04:00)

    ORANJESTAD - The website of the Chamber of Commerce (CoC) this Easter weekend and a day after cracked by hackers who defend the Palestinian cause in the Middle East. That has Edwin Rose, chairman of the Chamber confirmed. As far as is known there is no declaration of illegal action, but the Security Aruba in the case or investigation.

Instead of the usual index with the activities of the Chamber, said the hacker organization Mass Defacers Group at home in bad English why "we so silent on the massacre of Palestinians by the Zionists on the Gaza Strip". Presumably it was also in the Turkish 'geklad'. The notice was signed by Sanal Alemdeki Lanetiniz Article Biziz, a Turkish group that presents itself as "cyberleger 'and as' sniper' (sluipschutter) on the Internet tekeer.

According to the CoC was cracking www.arubachamber.com on Sunday said. It would be a day when all have been. Because it was Easter, we have not succeeded to the text of the website. President Rose criticism that the Internet which, according to him directly on such actions must be able to respond.

DATABASE

The risk that the entire database could be cracked, with all the registration of companies, was not only present moment, according to the Chamber. Moreover, it was only the home page ( "home page") affected. According administrator Alexia Semeleer the website is only one copy of the database that do daily up to date account of the latest business information. "Furthermore, our website open to everyone and all data are publicly available."

Last of the action by the hackers had them do. "We were not even global reach, especially for looking up business. That is why I at the request via e-mail forwarded information. "

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_40935.php

Thanks, Tot!

    ::MonkeyCool::

Thanks, ******* and Mum.

Maybe they need to be on their knees, Mum, praying.

I wonder if the hackings had anything to do with retaliation in regards to the anti-Islamic film being produced by a Dutch politician.

Janet

++++++++++

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,340771,00.html

U.S. Web Host Pulls Dutch Lawmaker's Site Promoting Anti-Islam Film
Sunday, March 23, 2008

A northern Virginia-based Internet host provider has suspended the Web site set up by a Dutch politician to promote his new film critical of Islam, after a spate of complaints and fears of a possible backlash, the French news service Agence France Presse reported.

Network Solutions pulled Dutch Member of Parliament Geert Wilders'  page Sunday while it reviewed whether its contents conformed to company policy forbidding offensive material, according to the report.

Over the past few weeks, angry mobs in Pakistan and Afghanistan have demonstrated against the film, which they say is as an insult to Islam.

Dutch lawmakers had urged Wilders to drop the project, fearing a repeat of the kind of protests seen worldwide following the publication in a Danish newspaper of cartoons depicting the prophet Muhammed — protests which led to tightened security at embassies across the Muslim world.

Network Solutions said it took Wilder's site offline due to technical reasons including "excessive use of services which shall impair the fair use of other Network Solutions customers", the report stated.
The far-right lawmaker planned to make the 15-minute film available to viewers over the Internet after failing to find a distributor.

Although Wilders' Web site is offline, he said Sunday that he still wants to put out the movie "on the Internet quickly," though he did not specify how, AFP reported.

Wilders told FOX News in January that he believed Western culture was better off than the "+++++++" Islamic culture. He also likened the Koran to Adolf Hitler's book, 'Mein Kampf.'

Click here for more on this story from AFP as it appears on breitbart.com

Michael Park and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Spectacular post, Buckeye.

It's all about Natalee.

Happy Birthday to you. ::MonkeyWink::  from Jack blue

how very true, every single word of it.  it's all about natalee, and it is never going to just be forgotten.  i think all of us will be here until there's a resolution or we die of old age ourselves.  don't get complacent, j2k, it ain't over till it's over to our satisfaction.
dennisintn

related to this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7317506.stm


http://www.liveleak.com/fitnathemovie.html

First Reactions to Dutch Anti-Quran Film Are Muted
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,342470,00.html

Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende has reacted to the film Fitna that MP Geert Wilders has released on the internet today.
http://www.minaz.nl/english/News/Press_releases_and_news_items/2008/Maart/Government_s_reaction_to_Wilders_film

Wilders' film released on internet
http://www.dutchnews.nl/

About Fitna, the Netherlands and Wilders
http://www.rnw.nl/aboutfitna/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitna_%28film%29

very big news in dutch media:
http://www.telegraaf.nl/
http://www.volkskrant.nl/
http://www.nrc.nl/
http://www.ad.nl/
http://www.nos.nl/nosjournaal/voorpagina/index.html

no incidents yet.
only dutch parliament got locked down and evacuated.

Thank you, too, Mr. Jack Blue   ::MonkeyWink::

So very true and on another day at another time when we weren't paying attention, it could have been any one of us or our families.

Happy Birthday Bearlyhere!  ::MonkeyDance::  ::MonkeyWink::

CBB, Thanks so much, I love it!   ::MonkeyDance::

Welcome to all the NEW Monkeys, it's nice to see other opinions. 

Happy Birthday too, to all the March Monkeys, mine and hubbys has just passed in March also.

All I can say is "WOW" to all the hackings.  They are good!  They even hit some really important sites too.  Definately left a message for Aruba IMO.

Nico Jörg wrote Rudy Croes a letter that he is resigning 1 july.

OM is appealing 5 rulings in Fondo Desaroyo Nobo corruption case.

state secretary kingdom affairs Bijleveld worries about the lack of structure which enables corruption on St. Maarten.

I missed this post somehow, until I saw other responses to it.  As Buckeye was making this post I was trying to find the words to respond to GBMW's questions about Beth's anger being directed at JVDS, and not at "Daury".  Buckeye had the words that I could not find.  Very well said, Buckeye!  I don't have a daughter so mine would have been different in some aspects.  And I would like to add; Our children are our children.  If one is taken we need to know how, why, when, where, and should expect in the least to be able to have a proper burial for that child.  There are situations where that's not possible; but this was not a natural disaster or situation such as 9/11/01.  The answers are known to some if not many on that island as to where Natalee is and exactly what happened to her.  It is unacceptable that the suspects in this case among others have been allowed to torment her family by witholding that information for almost 3 years.  Along with the torment of "we know, but we're not going to tell right now" they have tried in every way imaginable to tarnish the reputation of Natalee and her mother especially; and the family in general.  Not one of the ugly dispicable lies that have been written/spoken/posted anywhere have been proven, but they are always there for those who happen upon them looking for information on the case.  And of course there are those who are willing to add to those lies and speculation on a regular basis.  What astounds me about at least one of the known contributors to the misinformation is that she is a mother herself; of four children from what I've read.  I can't imagine what amount of money or favors would induce her to such venom.  Others, I'm not sure of, maybe just to be a part of something?  Some may hide behind screen names but their hatred and slander of a family in so much pain speaks volumes of the people they are.  God is a forgiving Father if they seek Him.  If not, I'm sure there will be a special place in hell for all of them and their lies. 

Thanks Caesu!  There was an article posted the other day although I couldn't understand most of it (Papiamento, I believe) it seemed to mention the retirement of Nico Jorg.  Does the article say that Mr. Jorg will work somewhere else?  Did it mention the date of September 1 for any reason, I thought I could decipher that also from the previous article that was posted.  Thanks so much for posting the translations of these articles! 

he goes back to his old job advocate-general at the Higher Court in The Hague.
he became acting procureur-general of aruba in juli 2007.

i think he is leaving because rudy croes has a aruban procureur-general to take over (a crony i think).

Thanks Caesu!  I'm sure your thoughts are correct, re a crony.

Good Night Monkeys.

It is way past Ducky and my bedtime.

Janet
11:15 PM

Buckeye well said. All of us with daughters worry about the predators we discuss here. At least 3 of them have names and faces for all of us to keep an eye on forever!

Guys, I have never seen the news coming this slow before or the forums posting this few pages. Is there anything going on or is this case actually closed?

My personal opinion is Mos has closed the case and he will do nothing more. Afterall, he has released all three as suspects.

Thanks, Sis!

 ::MonkeyConfused::  ::MonkeyDance::

Happy Birthday Hotshot and Hubby!!!  Thanks for the good wishes.

 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

You're Welcome! My Birthday was the 15th of March....Pisces Rock!  ::MonkeyWink::

Happy Birthday, Hotping!  I knew there was something I liked about you. ::MonkeyCool::

Aries Rock, too!

Thanks Sis! Yes...Aries Do Rock! Good Night The Dog Woke Me and Now its back to the Monkey Bunkey! Talk To Ya Later!  ::MonkeyCool::

There was a request on Patrick van der Eems site for english translations; Patrick responded:

Nee, helaas, mijn Engels is ook niet zo heel erg goed en ik kan niet alles vertalen, want moet ook gewoon mijn bedrijf weer runnen. Als er belangrijk nieuws is dan zal ik kijken of ik het kan vertalen. Ik heb die automatische vertalingen gezien en die zijn echt siek; daar klopt niets van.

No, I'm sorry, my English isn't that great either and I can't translate everything, because I have to run a business also. If there is important news I'll see if I can translate it. I've also seen the translations (he means the google / babelvista ones) and they're awful.

And Texasmom & Buckeye; please read my posts with Janet concerning this (earlier in this thread). There is a copy here below but it might not look good because of the weird copy - pasting:


Hi Janet,
you asked for the things that make me wonder a bit sometimes. I gave you an example...that's all. I haven't thought of Beth / Natalee's family in any other way then they are the victims. To me it's about what happened to Natalee and who's responsible for what happened to her (I don't believe she committed suicide). Her family & friends deserve to know this & those responsible for her fate deserve to be held accountable for their actions.



GBMW .... I sincerely apologize if I over reacted.

Janet


The reaction came from the right perspective so you're forgiven  ;-)

I'm off to bed; it's 03:45 for me...bedtime! Luckily I don't have to get up early.

And I would like to add that I also believe that the people that helped with keeping things a secret should also be held accountable for their actions (even if they didn't do anything that specific night...

I agree. That was the plan until Joraaan opened his big mouth and forced Aruba to act.... and then they didn't act.

case closed.

officially unofficially Joran got on the record the beach and away from his house. Sooo Machiavellian. He insulated his father and the crime scene.

hmmmm the KLPD didn't think the crime scene was the beach.

this is one diabolical element... and Aruba will never do anything to help Beth or Dave. The only hope is private citizens.

IF YOU CAN'T STAND UP FOR NATALEE - WHAT CAN YOU STAND UP FOR?

I agree -- I think they finally realized that Julia, MF, etc. are doing more harm than  good in the forums. I think they have all been ordered to just go "silent."

I ask,

How can we let Aruba get away with a state sanctioned murder? how???????? how can we allow this to happen?

Why has the FBI remained silent? In my opinion - they are complicit. Not so much as a peep. Why? I don't buy they are working behind the scenes. They now what everyone knows. Joran and his Father are guilty but do nothing... and they piss me off!!!

confessions out the yeng yang and still nothing.

Have we as human beings been reduced to nothing more than carbon and collective molecules? I still think - therefore I still AM.

I guess the FBI only worries about prostitutes, bilking, pyramid schemes, political vendettas and the such. Forget about REAL Law Enforcement. Where is Art Wood's EXTRADITION?

I better step back from this machine. to quote San...

I still remember the old days when the FBI wanted to dig up Giants Stadium for a mob associate. One James Hoffa. Hardly a sweet little girl that needs the full weight of the US Government.

I sometimes think if you are not a mobster or an Al Qaida sympathizer you can forget about attracting the attention of the FBI. Al Qaida is obviously a huge threat... but what about the common citizen? doesn't Natalee matter? She does to me.

The dummies at the FBI didn't even know about Paul Brough until posters alerted them. And they seem asleep at the switch.

>>>seriously stepping back now

 

Good Morning Rob...'I don't buy working behind the scenes! Neither do I!!! And I sure as heck hope we are wrong!

Morning Mum,

Let's look at their record. No idea where Tara Grinsted is...no clue where Jenn Kesse is...no notion where Paige Birgfeld is. No desire to find Trenton Duckett...I could go on and on...

if the corpse doesn't fall in their laps they do nothing. We'll be here in five years still waiting for the FBI to act. We're only fooling ourselves believing that the FBI is going to act. Three years almost... and we have seen nothing from that agency.

Rob...you reminded me of a post I made in the Shango thread yesterday. Do you recall anything about this? The protected witness, I mean?...TIA

Reply #158 on: March 26, 2008, 08:42:52 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Find something new every time I read that book translation...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1097.0

P332

Also, an FBI "protected witness", an American called "Mr X", meets Deepak in July 2005 in the Internet café wehre Deepak works.

Deepak tells X: “I see what’s going on and I know much more. I’m certain that Natalee is no longer on the island.” He also says something that contradicts that: “When they find the duct-tape with Natalee’s hair on it, then I’ll go to jail", which is strange because they did find hair with duct tape but it wasn't Natalee's.
 
 

Here's my idea

A network of multi-million dollar satellites that orbit the Earth, similar to Britain's CCTV system, that monitors the entire USA and other areas of interest. All video is then stored in a central database for future reference when the need arises.

We then zero in on the appropriate area and time frame to see who committed the crime and the possible cars used.

ohhhhhh wait - we already have that.  ::MonkeyRoll::

I'm sorry Mum, I have no idea... maybe some other brilliant monk does.

I can guess...

Fabric that looks like Natalee's top washes up... along with duct tape...and big holes in fish trap.

If I assume for a second that Joraaan told the truth with Patrick and he waded Natalee out or "Daury" took her in a boat - doesn't that make it all the more likely that is indeed Natalee's top????

Well I read every Aruban newspaper today and nothing of interest at all. One thing is clear and that is every American tourist in the paper looks like a fat,ignorant lowlife,reject or elderly that looked the other way to get a cheap timeshare in warm weather. The kind of scum that should not be welcomed back in the U.S.A for turning there back on one of there own! Makes me want to puke! I sure hope that a active American Boycott of Aruba will start because they aren't doing anything except sprinkling more BS on top of the cover up in hopes this all goes away.

The Aruban Govt probably is paying Joran's expenses in Germany to keep his mouth shut,Paul Van Der Sloot is still being fed cases and still on the Govt Committees. The case was closed in 2005 as they had no intention of ever going to trial or investigating anything further as it was already solved. It's been one big Dog and Pony show ever since. So many times they are caught lying and covering up Natalee's Murder,so if they don't ever say anything again and no one is allowed to talk about it,they think it will all go away.

The Dutch have had this case since August 2006 and have done jack sh@* except appoint Hans Mos to keep the case closed and BS the world into thinking they were actually investigating. WTF are the Dutch doing? Take a good look at the people that lied and covered up Natalee's rape and murder because most of them were appointed by the Dutch Government. It's quite clear all they care about is there precious Tourism and they will lie,cheat,steal and kill to protect it and the dirty corrupt individuals that run the tiny little island.

Moombas (between HI and Mariott) is/was run by Mike and Marlene (son Mark, I believe) Presner. (wonder if it should be posner?.)Pictures in some of the old brag news of their chamber news, etc.  It was, anyway. He (could be wife) used to and may still, blog on BFN and seemed to have protection status there.  It may have been they were trying in their own way to glean info from him, but a few there were convinced he/she was a friend, it seems.  I knew/know better. As I tried to say, some you think you have a foot in their door when they have a foot in your.  LOL   Jackb

The pie is devided up there, from what I read long ago.  French views on one part of island and the other half, a mixed review.  j/b

  This was not analyzed properly in Aruba and they send switched samples to the FBI would be my bet.   j/b

It might be a good idea for them to watch their own "daughters" as the bloggers have pictures, names and addresses of ALL of them.  J/b

 ::MonkeyDance::

GBMW ... I believe that the chain of command is the reason that the whole truth will never be revealed by Aruba.  This chain that has denied Natalee Holloway justice is far reaching.  It implies the implication of not just Joran, Deepak and Satish but ... Paulus ... Paulus' family/personal/professional connections in the Aruban and Dutch administrations who were involved or aware of the coverup ... the sons of the elite (pimps) who participated or were aware of the "something bad" that happened to Natalee Holloway and ... the judiciary who time after time after time ruled in favor of the suspects.

The truth would also expose Aruba's underground economy of organized crime ... gambling ... drugs ... sex trade ... money laundering ...

I suspect that when Joran was detained in December ... he was informed by Hans Mos in regards to the forthcoming fifth segment of the Devries video recording and ... related a collaborated story to Patrick vander Eem that would identify only him as the last person with Natalee Holloway ... related a story that would make him the sacrificial lamb ... the sacrificial lamb who had assurance by the prosecutor's office that he would not be held legally accountable.

The objective ... the appeasement of a mother who refused to be silent until answers were forthcoming in regards to what happened to her precious daughter.

Think about it ... Paulus would be distanced from implication and ... the Kalpoes who had the ability to implicate Paulus would be distanced and ... the sons of the elite (pimps) who had the ability to implicate Paulus would be distance  and ... those in the Dutch/Aruban administration who had the ability to implicate Paulus would be distanced and ... those in the judiciary who had the ability to implicate Paulus would be distanced.

I firmly believe that considering Joran's age at the time of the "incident" ... he would have been the "sacrificial lamb" from the getgo if Aruban had anticipated a mother by the name of Beth Holloway Twitty ... a mother whose voice would not and will not be silenced until she receives the answers regarding her beloved Natalee.

Janet

++++++++++++++

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/02/arubans_wary_of_fifth_car_trip.php
Arubans wary of fifth car trip in Holloway case
Monday 25 February 2008
 
Dutch tv crime reporter Peter R de Vries set up a fifth car trip to try and get Joran van der Sloot to confess to murdering US teenager Natalee Holloway after the Aruban public prosecution department said the original four recordings did not contain enough evidence, the Volkskrant reported on Saturday.
 
Aruban officials told De Vries and his team at a secret hotel meeting that the tapes did not contain enough new evidence, the paper says in a reconstruction of events surrounding the tv programme which claimed to solve the mystery of her disappearance.
 
Aruban public prosecutor Hans Mos told the paper he did not want to have anything to do with the extra car trip because he was afraid it could be construed as entrapment and blow the case.
 
The final car trip with Van der Sloot and his 'friend' Patrick van der Eem took place on January 29 in a borrowed car which had been hastily kitted out with recording equipment, the paper said. The original had already been sold.

During that trip, Van der Sloot said he was not sure if Natalee had been dead when a friend dumped her body at sea.
 
After the press release was issued claiming the case had been solved but without giving any further details, De Vries told the paper he hoped that Van der Sloot would again phone his 'friend'.
 
But website VKMag picked up a page on De Vries' website which identified Van der Sloot. The page had been prepared for release after the programme was aired on Sunday but had gone live by mistake.

This sound familiar? Sounds just like Aruba except they didn't have a well connected Paul Van Der sloot that knew from the very beginning.."No Corpse No Case"
----------------------------------
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/scarlett.jpg)

Men Questioned in Tourist Death in India

Mar 9, 1:49 PM (ET)

PANAJI, India (AP) - Police questioned three men Sunday in an investigation into the death of a 15-year-old British girl whose body was found on a beach in southern India, officials said.

There were unconfirmed reports later Sunday from the Press Trust of India news agency that a man had been formally arrested. It was unclear whether he was one of those already questioned and police did not say what charges he was facing.

Scarlett Keeling was seen with a group of local men at a bar on the night she died, three of whom were held for questioning by the authorities earlier in the day, police official Bosco George said.

.Her partially clothed and bruised body was found Feb. 18 on Anjuna beach in Goa, a tiny state with a coastline crowded with tourists and resorts. Police initially believed she accidentally drowned because she was drunk, but her family accused the police of a cover-up and pushed for a second autopsy and further investigation.

The second autopsy also showed that she had drowned, officials said, but doctors identified more bruises on her body and recommended that police investigate the death as a murder. The family also believes that Keeling may have been sexually assaulted.

"It was our main objective to get the police or somebody to admit that she'd been murdered, as I knew in my heart that she had been," Fiona MacKeown, Keeling's mother, told British Broadcasting Corp. television. "I'm convinced that they were covering it up."George, the police official, said he would conduct an internal inquiry into the investigation.

Keeling was on vacation in India with her mother, her mother's boyfriend, and her five siblings. Keeling's family was traveling elsewhere in India when she was killed.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080309/D8VA27FG0.html
--------------------------------------
Briton ‘witnessed sex attack on Scarlett Keeling’

Jeremy Page, South Asia Correspondent

A British man has told The Times that he saw an Indian barman apparently sexually assaulting Scarlett Keeling less than two hours before the 15-year-old British girl’s half-naked body was found on a beach in Goa.

The witness, who asked not to be identified, said that the attack took place after Scarlett left Lui’s bar on Anjuna Beach high on a cocktail of LSD, Ecstasy and cocaine at 5am on February 18.

Police confirmed she had been murdered only after a campaign by her mother, Fiona MacKeown, who refused to accept that her daughter had drowned. The case exposed the seedy side of Goa, one of India’s leading tourist destinations, and compounded fears about the safety of foreign women in India.

The witness said that he fled Goa because he believed that his life was in danger from the alleged assailant and the local police, who have been accused by Scarlett’s mother of covering up her rape and murder.

(snip)

His account of Scarlett’s final hours came as police in Goa announced that they had arrested Samson D’Souza, a barman at Lui’s, on suspicion of raping her.

Inspector Kishin Kumar, of the Goan police, said: “Although the sex may or may not have happened with consent, since the girl was a minor a case of rape has been recorded. More arrests and detentions are likely soon.” Police said that they had detained two other Indian men for questioning, including Luis Coutinho, the owner of Lui’s. They are searching for four others.

The detentions followed a second postmortem examination on Saturday which showed that Scarlett had been murdered and had 50 bruises and abrasions on her body. The original postmortem noted only five bruises and concluded that she had drowned. Fiona MacKeown, Scarlett’s mother, had refused to accept that and accused police of covering up her rape and murder. “It was our main objective to get the police . . . to admit that she’d been murdered, as I knew in my heart that she had been,” Mrs MacKeown said yesterday.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article3517075.ece

-------------------------------------------------------------
Three detained over Scarlett Keeling murder

By Pamela Timms in Goa and Robyn Powell
Last Updated: 6:20pm GMT 09/03/2008

Indian police have detained three men in connection with the murder of Scarlett Keeling, 15, who was found dead on an Indian beach last month.
 
Scarlett Keeling lived her with her mother and siblings in a smallholding in Devon
 
The Indian men are likely to be formally arrested, police official Bosco George said. The owner of a café on Anjuna beach where Keeling was last seen partying, was reportedly among those detained.

It is believed police are also searching for four more men in relation to the attack.

An officer who did not want to be named said: "We have pinned them down because they are always loitering around in the beach belt and their conduct was suspicious. They became friendly to her during her three-month stay."

A murder investigation was launched when a second post-mortem examination on the teenager, indicated she had been brutally assaulted. Police in Goa, where she had been on holiday with her family, had earlier said they thought she had drowned.

Her mother, Fiona MacKeown, who has spent recent weeks campaigning for the death to be re-investigated, told The Sunday Telegraph: "I'm just relieved that we've achieved this first objective.

"It's a strange feeling now, though, to come to terms with the fact that Scarlett was actually murdered. I know there's a huge procedure ahead of us to get the case solved.

"The hardest thing for me now is to try and put faith in the police officers who looked me in the eye and lied about my daughter's death.

"I'm now hoping to take Scarlett home and bury her on our land with a beautiful ceremony."

Scarlett, who with her mother and siblings in a smallholding in Devon, arrived in Goa back in November, embracing the island's party lifestyle. She was last seen alive at a bar called Lui's on Feb 18, where she was said to be in the company of several men.

Her corpse was found on the beach only yards away, her shorts and underwear having been removed and her bra-top pushed up around her neck.

The first post-mortem examination recorded only five bruises on her body. The second found 50, and injuries to her genital regions.

"They [the police] have caused us a huge traumatic experience," said Mrs MacKeown. "They have behaved like criminals."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03/09/windia209.xml
---------------------------------------------
A 28-year-old man arrested by police in India in connection with the rape and murder of British teenager Scarlett Keeling.
Inspector Kishan Kumar, of Goa police, said local man Samson D'Souza was detained after witnesses came forward.

They allege they saw him raping the 15-year-old from Devon on the beach at the resort of Anjuna on February 18.

"This man was seen with the girl near to where her dead body was found. It was evidently clear this man was raping her," he said.

"We have sufficient evidence to show this man was having sex with the girl in the early hours of February 18.

"We have established that he was raping her."
The police official added that Indian officers were now working on a murder investigation.

"This part of the investigation is still going on," he said.

For almost three weeks, local police had insisted the teenager, who was found semi-naked on a beach, had drowned after drinking.

But the results of a second post-mortem confirmed her death should be investigated as murder.

"This (arrest) has been an indication that the huge pressure Scarlett's mother has brought to bear on the Indian police is apparently beginning to pay dividends," said
She added that a local guide whom Scarlett became friendly with - but who has strenuously denied any involvement in her death - had also been quizzed by detectives.

Scarlett's mother has told Sky News she had "mixed emotions" about the fact that the death is now being treated as murder.

Fiona MacKeown has had to battle to find out what happened, refusing to accept the official police line that there were no signs of a violent attack.

She took photographs of her daughter's body at the morgue which showed at least 50 marks or bruising - the initial examination claimed there were only five marks.

She also recorded extensive bruising to the genital area.

"I am hugely relieved as we have got past the first hurdle to prove it was murder," she said.

"I feel kind of empty and flat but relieved as well, it's a funny mix of feelings."


Fiona Mackeown: 'Mixed feelings'
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1308580,00.html
------------------------------------------------
(CNN) -- The mother of a British girl found dead in Goa last month is facing police questions about negligence, her lawyer said Tuesday.

Quote
Scarlett had been on an extended vacation with her family, and was living with a male friend and his aunts while the rest of the family traveled to an adjoining Indian state.

Police arrested a bartender over the weekend in the case, which they are treating as a rape and murder.

Varma said that any questions about negligence by the mother were unfounded. He said MacKeown trusted the friend's family to take care of her daughter.

"She had left Scarlett in the care of two aunts," he said. "They had assured Fiona that they would look after her child. They were in touch with her four times a day."

The lawyer added: "I don't see the legal strength in such a line of questioning."

MacKeown believes the questions about negligence are a "diversion tactic" to turn attention away from what she considers a corrupt police investigation, the mother's spokeswoman, Dakini Runningbear, told CNN.


Quote
She also criticized police for initially saying her daughter drowned despite clues that pointed to homicide. She demanded a second autopsy, after which police changed the cause of death.

Varma said the police investigation had been "nothing but murky."

"The place where this crime has happened, it's a small village, and when a crime happens all the people know about it," Varma said.

"But it took three weeks for a police officer to change this crime from death due to drowning in the sea to rape and

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/03/11/india.tourist/?iref=mpstoryview
-----------------------------------------
Minister: Teen's Goa murder covered up

Quote
NEW DELHI, India -- Police covered up the murder of a British teenage girl in Goa last month to protect the tourist industry, a state minister and local media said Monday.


Quote
"This is a clear case of murder and it has gone out of proportion because the police tried to cover it up," Francisco X. Pacheco, Goa's Tourism Minister told Reuters.com.

Indian media suggested the cover-up was an attempt to protect Goa's tourism industry.

"They should have arrested this man a long time ago and this issue would have got diluted, but now because of the tainted image of some police officers in the case, things have gone out of hand," Pacheco said.

Quote
"We've had an awful lot of contact with people that have been in this situation before, and they've warned us to be careful (that) the police will try and find someone immediately to try and put a front on it that they're actually doing something," Fiona MacKeown told BBC radio on Monday.

Kumar described D'Souza as a "local Anjuna boy" who was a bartender at Liu's, a beachfront bar. He said police had confirmed D'Souza's role in Keeling's rape and were now trying to find evidence that he killed the teenager.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/03/10/india.tourist/index.html
-------------------------------------------
Scarlett's mother accused the police of a cover-up


Dozens of journalists have descended on a corner of India to follow the investigation into the murder of British teenager Scarlett Keeling, as many questions about her death remain unanswered.
On a sunny morning, the media scrum outside the handsome, brown-tiled building that houses the Goa police's "special juvenile unit" in the capital, Panaji, was frenziedly speculating about why Fiona MacKeown had been summoned there.

On Friday night, two constables had knocked on Ms MacKeown's door and handed a summons to her to appear next morning at the unit's offices in connection with the rape and murder of her 15-year-old daughter.

Scarlett was drugged and left for dead on a beach in Goa last month, after being left by her mother in the care of a 25-year-old tour guide that she had befriended in the resort of Anjuna. Two men have been arrested.

Her mother and her six other children had travelled to the neighbouring state of Karnataka.

The summons sparked speculation that she would be questioned about allegations of failing to provide a safe environment for Scarlett under Goa's five-year-old Children's Act which claims to "promote and protect the best interests of children" in the state.

After 105 minutes inside the police unit, Ms MacKeown walked out with her lawyer to tell the scrum that she had just given a statement - recorded on a video camera - about what she knew about the case.

"There was no suggestion that they are investigating me. I told them what had happened, and the police are treating me as a witness," she said.

"They [the police] were not aggressive with me... but that doesn't rule out the fact that I feel intimidated and harassed by this whole process," she said.

Minutes later, Bosco George, the police superintendent investigating the case, came out and the media scrum moved to him.

"We asked whether she can help us, give us some leads [to the investigation]," a calm Supt George said.

Distressed

In response to the BBC's question whether Ms MacKeown was co-operating with police, Supt George smiled and mopped the sweat on his brow.

"The fact that she has arrived here is co-operation, isn't it," he said wryly.

When Ms MacKeown had arrived at the police unit in the morning, she looked shaken and distressed.

"I don't know what they will ask me. They are just harassing me," she said, adding that she had been already questioned once early during the investigation.

"The police have lied to me. They have told me Scarlett's body was found floating in the sea, that she was wearing swimwear, that her body had no bruise or struggle marks.

"They have cajoled and convinced me that it is a simple case of drowning and I must take her body back home quickly."

She distributed photocopies of seven pages of various letters and statements which she said supported her allegations.

One of the documents was a Goa police "first information report" dated 9 March on Scarlett's death, that mistakenly said Ms MacKeown's father's name was "Mr Sukumar Desarkar", a very Indian name. Supt George conceded that was an error.

A statement by Ms MacKeown alleged she had information that the "drugs mafia" in Goa had a "strong nexus" with a senior Goa minister and a police official.

But Supt George denied allegations there was a police conspiracy to hush up the investigations.

"Wild allegations...what is this police conspiracy?" he said. "Let the courts give its verdict on the quality of investigation. Let the courts decide whether it was shoddy or not."
Speculation

The police have admitted that there have been "serious lapses" in investigation and suspended a policeman who was initially investigating the case. They have denied charges of a cover-up.
At the end of it all, the thinning scrum covering Goa's biggest story this year speculated for the last time.

Why did the police call Ms MacKeown to a juvenile unit of the department for a statement? Had they initially planned on questioning her on "neglecting" her child, and later changed their mind? If so, why?

There are still many unanswered questions in the Scarlett Keeling case.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7298093.stm
-------------------------------

NCW to prepare report on Scarlettes death

PTI

New Delhi, March 26

The National Commission for Women today said it will independently prepare a report on the death of British teenager, Scarlette Eden Keeling in Goa last month and voiced concern over the state of her mother who is fighting her battle all alone.

A two-member team is set to leave for Goa, NCW member, Ms Nirmala Venkatesh, who will be heading it, said here.

We will independently prepare a report and find out if there is anything that is missing. Police are doing their job but our report would further help the probe, she said.

Ms Venkatesh said, “We are concerned about the state of her mother Fiona MacKeown. She is fighting her battle alone. She needs support in an unknown place.

Fiona also fears a threat to her life. We will find out and try to put the pieces together in our capacity. We want the guilty should be punished, she said.

A number of female tourists keep visiting India and we want them to feel safe and have complete faith in the Indian system. Our support would ensure them that we all are with them. They are not fighting alone, she said.

Scarlette was allegedly drugged, raped and left to die on the popular Anjuna beach last month. Ms MacKeown had sought a CBI inquiry into her death and alleged cover-up by the police.

Under pressure on the credibility of police probe, the Goa Chief Minister, Mr Digambar Kamat had said yesterday that the state government was willing to hand over the case to the CBI.

http://www.navhindtimes.com/articles.php?Story_ID=032738

The story of Natalee Holloway in a nutshell.

Janet

From what I heard it was MIP6 (the Moomba bunch.)  The way he took a dislike to me, and the villians usually do, I am very inclined to believe it was the Moomba bunch.
They played like "friends" of some blogs to see what they knew and either the blog dudes/dudettes fell for it or thought they had their foot in those doors there.  It was obvious the MIP6 bunch had a much longer experience of disinformation than the pro H/T camp.    j/b

We should and probably have been seeing some pictures from there and don't even realize where they come from.  j/b

Hans Mos made it clear following the court's decision not to detain Joran in regards to his words in the Devries' video recording that ... Joran was "once again" declared a suspect in the Natalee Holloway case.

Janet 
++++++++++++

February 15, 2008

Court of Appeal upholds lower judge’s decision not to detain J.v.d.S.

J.v.d.S remains prime suspect
Judicial investigation continues

The Court of Appeal announced by the end of yesterday, February 14th, 2008, its decision to uphold the refusal by the investigating judge to order pre-trial detention of J.v.d.S. in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The Office of the Public Prosecutor had requested such an order after the “Peter R de Vries-tapes” had been received by the Office and had been evaluated. Last week the Office appealed the ruling of refusal by the judge.

The reasons underlying the Court’s decision are the following. The Court has seen the visual materials, has listened to the audio materials and has inspected the verbatim reports. Based on that, the Court is of the opinion that there is a lack of sufficient facts and circumstances substantiating serious grounds for the suspicion of the suspect’s involvement in the crimes for which he is being held responsible by the prosecution. The Court will generally be a bit more hesitant when it has to decide on a new request for pre-trial detention of a suspect, when that same suspect has been detained repeatedly before and there has been a considerable lapse of time.

J.v.d.S. has given extensive and detailed statements in Patrick van der Eem’s car, the undercover citizen who worked for Peter R. de Vries, on what happened during the night of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Nevertheless the Court sees various reasons not to accept the serious grounds of suspicion which are statutorily required for pre-trial detention. One of them is the history of contradictory statements by J.v.d.S., which were belied repeatedly by objective findings.

At this moment those parts of the statements made in Van der Eem’s car which contain new elements are not being underpinned by objective findings. Considering the possibility of a serious personality disorder – as voiced by the prosecution – combined with a personal history of untrue statements and remarks, which even according to the suspect himself are frequently false, the Court of Appeal has reasons for doubt regarding the incriminating character of the “car-statements.”

On the pre-trial detention issue the Code of criminal procedure does not provide for further appeals. The effect of the Court decision is that J.v.d.S. cannot be (re)arrested. The investigation of the Natalee Holloway case continues. J.v.d.S. is again the prime suspect.  

At the end of the investigation the Office of the Public Prosecution will decide whether to charge or not

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2605.msg350819#msg350819

Considering the interrogation questions presented to Jug and Beth Twitty on May 31, 2005 ... maybe the Court which disregarded Joran's words on the Devries video recording concerning the "shaking of Natalee Holloway" ... should have read Joran's missing May 31, 2005 statement.

Also ... I assume that Freddie's statement regarding this issue which Joran refers to in his book was overlooked.

Both these statements would have corroborated Joran's words which were related to Patrick vander Eem.

Janet

+++++++++++

http://www.amigoe.com/english/   02/15/2008

No custody for Van der Sloot

ORANJESTAD – After the Public Prosecutor appealed the decision of the examining magistrate not to detain Joran van der Sloot, the Common Court of Justice of the Neth.Antilles and Aruba announced yesterday evening that Joran van der Sloot will not be arrested again in the Holloway-case.   

After having examined the possible slanderous image- and sound recording in secret by the editorial office of the Dutch crime journalist Peter R. de Vries, the Court says that there is not enough material to charge him.   The Court can in any case not really answer the question whether based on that, the suspect must be taken into preventive custody.  The decision also includes the situation that the suspect had given several inconsistent declarations, ‘whereby it also appeared more than once that these declarations could not be objectively confirmed’.    What also played a part is the statement of Van der Sloot about having made up everything he had said in De Vries’ programme.   The Court does not rule out the fact that the suspect has a ‘serious personality problem’. 

“The Court questioned the verity of this statement, while we could have arrested him for a third time”, explained district attorney Dop Kruimel.  Some of the things he said were partly consistent with justice’s own investigation.  Others were not though, like the boat he mentioned; that has not been found yet.”

The OM has no statutory remedies left against the decision.  The investigation in the Holloway-case will continue with 25 detectives working on it and Van der Sloot remains the suspect.  The OM will decide on further prosecution of Van der Sloot after they are done with the investigation.   

According to his lawyer Bert De Rooij, “Joran van der Sloot is not well off.  He is in hiding and is constantly being threatened.  Whether that is in the Netherlands or in Aruba, is not known.  The lawyer said that he is not hiding for the police, but for the people’s tribunal.  He has serious reasons to believe that he won’t make it across the street if we let him go free.” 

Crime journalist Peter R. de Vries is of the opinion that by not arresting Joran van der Sloot, he is being rewarded for undermining the police investigation.  He also does not understand that the Court does not want to arrest him because the Court is under the impression that Joran is a consistent liar.  “The fact that a person constantly lies in a case of life and death, is precisely a motive to keep him/her locked behind bars.” 

INFORMANT

The police have not told the Aruban authorities that Patrick van der Eem had come forward with the indication that Joran van der Sloot would perhaps talk to him about the Holloway-case.  That’s what Justice-minister Ernst Hirsch Ballin told the Lower House on Thursday.  Van der Eem, who was used by Peter R. de Vries as informant, reported to the Gelderland-Midden police last fall.  The police didn’t work with him, because he made a condition that was against the rules.   In connection with the privacy of Van der Eem and the sensitivity of the information, Hirsch Ballin didn’t go into this condition.  The police also did not inform the Public Prosecutor.  The minister indicated that it is part of the existing work arrangements.  Besides, the OM would have most probably not accepted the man’s conditions, said the minister.


Joran van der Sloot
ABC NEWS
February 3, 2008

In one taped conversation, van der Sloot told van der Eem that Holloway visibly convulsed "like a movie," that she was shaking "a lot."
 
"Did you try CPR on her?" asked van der Eem.
 
"Of course, I tried everything," van der Sloot said. "I tried to shake her. I was shaking the bitch. I was like, 'What is wrong with you man?' I almost wanted to cry. Why does this s*** have to happen to me?"

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=4222253&page


Beth Twitty
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
February 8, 2008

HOLLOWAY: Well, Larry, I think that a lot of people have kind of stepped into this tangled web, into Joran's web, well into this journey, and we -- we have a lot of thing that were transpiring early on in the island of Aruba, within the first 48 hours of Natalee's disappearance, and had a stunning revelation when I was watching the taped admissions of Joran to Patrick. And, when he imitates how Natalee was suffering through the seizures, well, Larry, within 48 hours of Natalee's disappearance on the island of Aruba, a lead detective, Dennis Jacobs (ph), first and only medical question he asked me was, does Natalee have a history of epilepsy or seizures. And I said, no, why would you ask that?

And he only asked me that once, and from there forward, three other detectives asked Natalee's step father probably a dozen times, Larry. Jug had to come to me six times and ask me if Natalee had a history of epilepsy or seizure. And I kept saying no, why do you keep asking us that? Why? So, it brought it full circle for us.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/07/lkl.01.html


John Kelly
On the Record w/ Greta
February 20, 2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Twi7-8OqS4
 
KELLY:  Let me throw one more thing in on that Greta.  On May 31st, Joran was the first person interviewed by Jacobs when he's taking statements. Every police report subsequent to that, the statements made by Deepak, made by Satish, made by Beth that day, we have them all, there is no statement from Joran until June 9th.
Unofficial Transcript


Joran van der Sloot
De Zaak Natalee Holloway
Page 161

After Freddy's second statement on June 13th at 18:30, in which he keeps insisting that I told him the first story already on May 30th, the police confront us as best friends with each other.  Some further statements follow after that.  In the end Freddy states in his 6th and 7th statements that I have told him that Natalee went unconscious several times and did not regain consciousness at a certain moment, that I tried to wake her up by shaking her but that but this also did not work.
Unofficial Engish translation

Apparently .... the Natalee Holloway case is not officially closed but ... as one of our Monkeys implied ... THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY WAS DETERMINED CLOSED FROM THE GETGO!  Justice for an 18 year old American citizen was never the objective of the Aruban investigation.

Janet

+++++++++++

http://www.amigoe.com/english/   02/15/2008

No custody for Van der Sloot

ORANJESTAD – After the Public Prosecutor appealed the decision of the examining magistrate not to detain Joran van der Sloot, the Common Court of Justice of the Neth.Antilles and Aruba announced yesterday evening that Joran van der Sloot will not be arrested again in the Holloway-case.

<snipped>
 
The OM has no statutory remedies left against the decision.  The investigation in the Holloway-case will continue with 25 detectives working on it and Van der Sloot remains the suspect.  The OM will decide on further prosecution of Van der Sloot after they are done with the investigation.

It has finally happened ... at the ripe old age of 61 ... I am talking to myself.  Also ... our daughter turns 41 years old today and ... believe me ... that makes me feel old.

I think I will start taking naps.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Have a good day Monkeys.

Later, Janet

Keepthefaith.I believe there is still plenty more to come.In God's time and not ours,as frustrating as that is, we must seek patient and continue what so many wonderful Monkeys have already done.Givin their hearts freely to Natalee as well as other innocent victims.Every Monkey on here is blessed in my opinion.I've been to other sites and post at one where it's quite obvious you have Ahata,ata,Taco's Cronies,VDS family Cronies posting hate.I let themIn short this forum let's me truly know in my heart that there are wonderful,caring,generous,giving,unselfish people still left in this world.From me to all the Monkeys on this board.THANK YOU for making this world just a little bit better of a place to live and exist!! ::MonkeyWink::


Keepthefaith

I simply cannot believe our FBI is just sitting passively by. I just don't think Dave or Beth would let that happen without a LOUD protest. I have always thought the reason for FBI silence is a combination of their "silence policy" along with a much "bigger" situation involving the State department.

Hi Monkeys, Forgive me for being off topic...

This is news about Dutch Island Detectives...

Philipsburg: The detective department has asked the RST to look at the file of missing American Leta Lynn Cordes. Chief Prosecutor of the Windward Islands Taco Stein said that "the local detectives wanted another set of eyes to look into the file so that they can finally close off  the investigation", Leta Lynn Cordes went missing January 11, 2008. ::MonkeyNoNo::

Sorry...This is what I wondered if anyone had heard before.

An "FBI protected witness", an American.

There is a reference in Joran's book translation of the FBI talking to "David's" mother.

Hi KeeptheFaith,

I WANT Justice on the Physical plane and in the here and now. It's nice to know that God does work in His own time and own way, but I am not ready to leave it all up to God and the hereafter.

In my opinion and based on my Faith, God can and does preform miracles. God is ALL Powerful. God created the Universe, heavens and the Earth. God can move mountains and change time and space. It's not for me to question God's intentions.

It's all with-in God's commanding and never matched abilities. I have no way of knowing what God has in store for the suspects and their enablers.

That all said -

This is an Earthly Justice issue and can be brought to a conclusion. There is no way that any of these animals should get a free pass and continue on with their lives. No way!! That's wrong and sets a bad example for everyone else.

In my opinion, God does not generally get involved in the matters of the day. He can and sometimes does. But for the most part he allows His divine plan to unravel. God creates the Universe and allows all to go on as intended. All of that has a purpose and even though we do not know the reason, God allows it to continue even if there is harm to mankind...i.e. the Holocaust. God could have stopped that but decided to allowed. It has perplexed many scholars over the last 60 years. But it's all part of God's plan. We can ask why... but we will probably not get an answer.

God creates Man in God's image. That's pretty simple. God gives man so many gifts. Reason, thought, the ability to choose right from wrong. God gives man some of the same gifts possessed by God Himself.

Some people never live up to God's image. After all, we are human and not God-like. Similar but different. The gifts not given to man are set aside for God only. Man could not handle those gifts and would surely create hell on earth.

So... while I do admit it does offer some comfort to know that God will eventually deal with these animals, I see no reason why Earthly powers are hand tied and unable to do what's right.

Thanks martini...I haven't read the thread in a couple of days and will go and read up.

The similarities to Natalee's case have been posted on in the 'Shango' thread. Again thanks!

Wreck ... I believe that the reason the FBI have not gotten involved is because Aruba refuses to officially close the investigation.  As long as the investigation is ongoing ... the involvement of the FBI without an invitation would be consider interference.

I contend that there is no way that Aruba is ever going to allow the case file regarding the disappearance of Natalee Holloway to be released.

Janet

+++++++++++

No custody for Van der Sloot
02/15/2008

ORANJESTAD – After the Public Prosecutor appealed the decision of the examining magistrate not to detain Joran van der Sloot, the Common Court of Justice of the Neth.Antilles and Aruba announced yesterday evening that Joran van der Sloot will not be arrested again in the Holloway-case.

<snipped>
 
The OM has no statutory remedies left against the decision.  The investigation in the Holloway-case will continue with 25 detectives working on it and Van der Sloot remains the suspect.  The OM will decide on further prosecution of Van der Sloot after they are done with the investigation.

http://www.amigoe.com/english/ 
 

Arlene Ellis-Schipper - Aruban Attorney
NANCY GRACE
July 20, 2005  

ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, ARUBAN ATTORNEY: There is no grand jury in Aruba. It`s a different system. You are arrested based on suspicion, on strong suspicion. After a maximum of 146 days, the prosecution must determine the criminal offense that has been committed and make an official summation for court. And God forbid that they cannot determine what criminal offense has been committed, the case remains open, and it can remain open for a whole number of years, actually, until the due process, the international rules about due process, up to two years.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/20/ng.01.html


Jug Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
July 6, 2005

GEORGE "JUG" TWITTY: Well, the way the system works down here, when the case is closed, we will have all that information, and we can release it to the world.  

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161705,00.html


Art Wood
DANA PRETZER
July 2, 2006 - Part 1
July 8, 2006 - Part 2

The family of Natalee needs to put pressure on the US attorney in Birmingham to push the FBI to conduct an investigation after ALE close the case. We have a treaty that allows the FBI to pursue a violation of civil rights of an American citizen there.


Art Wood
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 2, 2005

ART WOOD, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Absolutely. Absolutely. There's a lot that Americans can do through the State Department. I want to remind everybody that Natalee Holloway was a U.S. citizen. Once the Aruban authorities are done investigating this case, the FBI can still conduct an investigation, and they could extradite these suspects to the United States.  Let me point out that there's a ton of circumstantial evidence in this case to convict these kids.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295536/


When the FBI Seeks Extradition
BILATERAL EXTRADITION TREATIES
NETHERLANDS

<snipped>

SCHEDULE OF OFFENSES

1. Murder; assault with intent to commit murder.

2. Manslaughter.

3. Malicious wounding; inflicting grievous bodily harm.

4. Arson.

5. Rape; indecent assault; incest; bigamy.  

6. Unlawful sexual acts with or upon children under the age specified by the laws of both the Requesting and Requested States.

7. Wilful abandonment of a minor or other dependent person when the life of that minor or that dependent person is or is likely to be injured or endangered.

8. Kidnapping; abduction; false imprisonment.

9. Robbery; burglary; larceny; embezzlement.

10. Fraud, including obtaining property, money or valuable securities by false pretenses, deceit, falsehood, or other fraudulent means.

11. Bribery, including soliciting, offering [*27] and accepting.

12. Extortion.

13. Receiving, possessing or transporting anything of value knowing it to have been unlawfully obtained.

14. Offenses relating to criminal breach of trust.

15. An offense against the laws relating to counterfeiting and forgery; including the forging of seals, trademarks, documents, or use of such forgeries.

16. An offense against the laws relating to international transfers of funds.

17. An offense against the laws relating to importation, exportation or transit of goods, articles, or merchandise, including violations of the customs laws.

18. Offenses relating to slavery or the illegal transporting of persons.

19. Offenses against the laws relating to bankruptcy.

20. Offenses against the laws relating to prohibition of private monopoly or unfair trade practices.

21. Perjury; subornation of perjury; making a false statement to a government agency or official.  

22. Offenses relating to wilful evasion of taxes and duties.

23. Any act or omission intended or likely to: (a) endanger the safety of an aircraft in flight or of any person on board such aircraft; or (b) destroy or render any aircraft incapable of flight.

24. Any unlawful seizure or exercise of control [*28] of an aircraft in flight by force or violence, or by threat of force or violence, or by any other form of intimidation.

25. Any unlawful act or omission intended or that is likely to endanger the safety of any person in a railway train or in any vessel or other means of transportation.

26. Piracy, mutiny, or any mutinous act committed on board a vessel.

27. Malicious damage to property.

28. Offenses against the laws relating to the traffic in, or the possession, production or manufacture of narcotic drugs, cannabis, psychotropic drugs, cocaine and its derivatives, and other dangerous drugs and chemicals.  

29. Offenses against laws relating to the poisonous chemicals or substances injurious to health.  

30. Offenses against the laws relating to firearms, ammunition, explosives, incendiary devices or nuclear materials.

31. Offenses against the laws relating to the abuse of official authority.

32. Offenses against the laws relating to obstruction of justice.  

33. Offenses relating to securities and commodities.

34. Facilitating or permitting the escape of a person from custody.

35. Incitements to violence.

36. Any other act for which extradition may be granted in accordance with the laws [*29] of both Contracting Parties.

http://www.internationalextradition.com/netherlands_bi.htm

Tamikosmom...I totally agree with your thoughts on this. I also think that wreck's 'bigger picture' comes into play. I just hope that Beth and Dave have been given enough answers from the US authorities.

Great post Rob.I enjoy reading your posts as well as the rest of the Monkeys.I too for the life of me don't understand how Joran,Paulus,and the accomplices to the cover-up have not been brought to justice.To me it is the most cut and dry case i've seen.From what i gather from their law is, as long as you lie and keep your mouth shut it is nearly impossible to prosecute you unless the Elite see fit.If your not Elite.Watch out!It is diffucult for me to post sometimes because it just gets my blood boiling that people actually are friends with these people.I believe justice will be handed down before Joran,Paulus, and the accomplices have their day with the Lord.When you run around with the likes of the people they do.Your number comes up sooner or later.Unless Paulus has an endless bank account that time will come..OK i'll shut up now.Thanx Rob..


Keepthefaith

I wish I wrote that, because agree with every word of it, I so very much do.

Hi Carpe...yeeeeeh! three paragraphs that simply summed it all up... it was a great post... and still is.

By the way, I lurved the new video you posted this morning...

thanks!

------

WASN'T THERE A NICE LI'L GATHERING OF MANGROVE TREES DIRECTLY

BEHIND THE ROCKS NEAR THE LIGHTHOUSE? (Arubay Videos)

.............

 GRACE: Yes. And they didn't keep him. They decided they didn't have enough evidence to keep him. They let him go again. At that point, as soon as he gets back, they get into this specially outfitted super expensive SUV and he starts talking. He starts talking about the arrest, he talks about the fact that Natalee will never be found, that she is in the ocean, and his story in a nutshell, Glenn Beck, is that he was with the girl, they were making out on the beach alone the night before she leaves, just hours away from returning to America and she suddenly goes into convulsions and dies. Instead of calling 911 or rendering aid, he hides her body in some mangrove trees, calls a friend to come dump the body about a mile offshore. That's his story.
 
 GLENN: Okay. Now he says, and I'm just quoting -- I wish I could play the audio but it's -- you know, it's in, you know, wooden shoe language. So he says, "I almost wanted to cry." He said, "She was shaking." And Van der Eem says, "Shaking?" Van der Sloot: Yes, a lot. I almost wanted to cry. Why does this -- expletive -- always happen to me. I mean, first of all his first thought is, me, I wanted to cry because it was happening to me.


----

CLINKY / LINKY -A. Powers
 ::MonkeyTongue::


http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/196/5619/

Why would the FBI remain silent and behind the scene after so flagrantly sending 10 FBI agents to Aruba in that first week following Natalees' disappearance?
The logical answer can only lead to the root of all evil.....money. Aruba must be meeting the needs of the USA on some level not disclosed. Maybe the US is using the oft referred to "washing machine"? IMO it goes above and beyond hotels and beaches.......is money being laundered to fund weapons sales?....i don't know...but i remember Oliver North.
One thing I do know is that Natalee has never appeared on the FBI's Missing Persons list as does Amy Bradley. Why? ...because they have known from the beginning that she was dead.

If anyone can help answer Caps question I would be much appreciative.

CapsLockWizard

Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #2
« Reply #341 on: Today at 02:59:31 PM »
   Reply with quoteQuote
one more question:

Who help the Texas EquuSearch team when in Aruba. Either with food or lodging or with something. who is this person or enterprise.

CAPS

I guess I have more faith in our FBI than some of you. The mere fact that we HAD 10 agents there and also evidence was recently sent to them for analysis -- means they ARE involved. They just don't comment on ANYTHING. If the FBI was not working with Dave and Beth -- we would KNOW!!

Carpe ... thank you.  Nancy Grace sees it exactly how it is in regards to the suspects and ... the corrupt Aruban investigation.  She has never wavered in her support of Natalee Holloway and her family's desperate quest for ansers.

Janet

++++++++++

Glenn talks with Nancy Grace about the Natalee Holloway case
February 7, 2008 - 10:27 ET

 GRACE: I just hate the last thing Natalee Holloway saw, she didn't get to say goodbye to her parents, she wasn't in their loving arms or with them at the time of her death. She was on an isolated beach with Joran Van der Sloot who feels nothing. I mean, he may not have lost a minute's sleep last night but I sure did after I heard this.
 
GLENN: Well, I heard somebody over there in the wooden shoes and their finger in the dike saying, "Ya, but he's got to live with this for the rest of his life, he's not -- even if he doesn't go to jail, oh, he will be a pariah." And I thought to myself, no, he's not.

GRACE: No, he's not.
 
GLENN: He doesn't care.
 
GRACE: He is at school, he is happy, he's drinking beer, he's planning a pot farm, he is driving around in a luxury SUV.
 
GLENN: He's quite a guy.
 
GRACE: He's complaining this father, the former judge, doesn't give him enough money. He is a parasite. He is living off his family and he's responsible for Natalee Holloway's death.

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/196/5619/

YOu are certainly entitled to your opinion wreck.

hmmmm not sure who this is......

 The Tragic Untold Story of Natalee Holloway and Corruption in Paradise
page 29

Meanwhile, the search continued. We did what we could to cover the island, The Aruban government was doing some minimal searching, and Equusearch had the boats and dogs.  The Aruban police asked the  Equusearch team to send divers behind the van der Sloot home. Apparently, a body had been found in there many years earlier. We had a meeting with the press and Equusearch, and everyone agreed that only one reporter would be present during this search,but not everyone attended that meeting.  Some other members of the news media showed up during the search and were asked to leave, but they refused saying that it was their country and public property.  There was a heated confrontation and police were called in to rope off the area so the search could continue.  The seaarch dogs did not come up with a hit.

In following the story of Leta Lynn Cordes, the way I understand it is if the FBI gets involved and found something it could be struck down in court as interfering with an investigation or some such nonsense.  I am paraphrasing obviously because I just don't understand the craziness of it all, it's just another way to give the perps a free pass imo. 

JVDS will never be free another day in his life, unless he goes under extensive plastic surgery to look like Pam Anderson, he will always be a target.  He has chosen the hard way, imo.  Going to jail would be a cake walk compared to the rest of his life.  People are angry and are going to stay angry for a long time, longer than JVS walks this earth, imo.

Mum

I don't remember seeing that, in the book.  I did save a post from an old amigoe.com/forum.  Now I wonder if the duct tape did have evidence that got put in a "hidey hole".   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Posted by Carlton June 20, 2005

Beste mensen,

Van betrouwbare bronnen heb ik begrepen dat er op die tape de volgende dingen te vinden waren:

3 blonde haren (volgens DNA van Holloway)
7 zwarte haren(sluik haar, 2 verschillende eigenaren, eogenaren onbekend)
2 blonde haren (onbekend)
6 spermacellen (vooralsnog onbekend)
restanten van wat "lichaamsvocht" zou zijn geweest (bevestigd Holloway)
1 fragment roest (waarschijnlijk van een anker)
1 stukje vis
1 onderlegger met de text: "Ca....s & .har...s"
wat zand

Op basis hiervan denkt de politie de verdwijning spoedig te kunnen oplossen.


Google translation:

Dear people,

From reliable sources, I understand that in this tape the following things to be found were:

3 blonde hair (according DNA of Holloway)
7 black hair (sluik hair, 2 different owners, eogenaren unknown)
2 blonde hair (unknown)
6 sperm (currently unknown)
Remnants of what "body fluid" would have been (confirmed Holloway)
1 fragment rust (probably an anchor)
1 piece of fish
1 onderlegger with the text: "Ca .... s &. Har ... s"
What sand

On this basis the police believe the disappearance soon to be resolved.

 ::MonkeyEek::

http://www.amigoe.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002050;p=29

Am I thinking housing at Brickle Bay???

 The Tragic Untold Story of Natalee Holloway and Corruption in Paradise
page 157

     On September 19, 2005, I met with Taylor Northrop.  The Aruban government hired him mainly for damage control.  He was working with the Strategic Communications Task Force which was comprised of approximately thirteen members of the community, including government spokesperson Rueben Trappenburg, Rob Smith of the Aruba Hospitality & Security Foundation, and other business leaders.  Taylor thanked me for the press interview I had given denouncing the boycott and advised me that it made his job easier.  He said he was hoping that I would be working with everyone rather than promoting a boycott. I gave him some of the information that I had brought with me, and he was numbed by it.  It involved tips that I had received on my Web site.

      Taylor is from Fort Lauderdale, Florida, and he was the one who had told me of the prime minister"s attempt to have van der Stratten removed from Natalee's case.  Taylor also informed me that the reason Jossy Mansur had changed his position about having the FBI brought in was because the case had blown up in the press.

      Taylor went on to add that he was involved in the media decisions when Joran, Deepak and Satish were granted their freedom.  It was due to the members of the Strategic Communications Task Force that the media was invited and that their release had taken place during daylight hours to avoid suspicion.  I had to take that bit of information with a grain of salt.  The media may have been in Aruba for the suspects release, but I doubt that their contacts in the United States did not inform them that the number one story was Hurricane Katrina.

      Taylor asked if there was anything he could do to return the favor I did by speaking out against the boycott.  The following issue immediately came to mind.  Tim Miller from Texas Equusearch had contacted me regarding a proposed search of the landfill.  A previous attempt to search it had been made; however, there proper equipment was not available.  Tim offered to bring in his own equipment and team to Aruba to clear the area.  He indicated that the search would not disrupt the flow of refuse to the dump and that any displaced refuse would be returned to its original condition.  In other words, what they dug up would be reburied.  Also, he assured me that there would be no cost to Aruba for this effort.  Tim said he would need the necessary permits to unload a tractor-trailer and the digging equipment at the port in addition to a permit to enter the landfill and any other permits that would be necessary.

I DON"T THINK MOS DECIDES ANYTHING!!  I DON"T THINK THE CONTRACT WITH THE NETHERLANDS PERMITS THE "BORROWED" OMS TO WORK ON CRIMINAL MATTERS.

I think they can only work on laundering, etc.  I think Mos is a mouthpiece for the Aruban Prosecutor...could be caps' "D" man or Lugo.

I am reposting an earlier post.  Could martini or caesu verify my post??

I think I need caesu.  There is a pdf link at the bottom of the article I'm going to post (I can't figure out the direct pdf link).  Click on Job Cohen over...... I am quoting part of the translation from page 11 of the pdf.  It explains the OM job in Aruba.  I don't think Mos is in charge of anything.  I think only the Aruban OM is (?Lugo?). Did I get this correct??

The Dutch OM has aligned itself
No interference with criminal cases moving
Play to the overseas islands. That the
Dutchman Hans Mos in the broadcast
Peter R. De Vries statements made about Joran
Van der Sloot is verklaarbaar. The Chief
Works for the Aruban OM.
And it has been let for Aruban
Know that the research is a re -
Started.
   


http://juridischdagblad.nl/content/view/6388/53/


and GBMW

I was not criticizing you.  I have read and listened to everything (on many, many sites) for three years.  I don't believe the things I do because Natalee's family tells me to.  Their behavior doesn't concern me.  The disposal of an 18 year old does.  Had they been on the island, or suspect, I would look closer. I expect law enforcement to do their job no matter what politicians or families do. I also do not expect discrimination against a victim, her family or against an American, because they are American. I was trying to explain my feelings.  I wasn't questioning yours.  I know you're pretty new to the scene and are trying to "see" all sides.  I've looked at all sides, already....I am not a "blind" believer. You seem intelligent enough to get to your own conclusions. I appreciate your opinion and insight.

Lugo only handles local cases. very strange, but Dirtyhand works organized crimes. and special cases and Government cases.

I believe they did stay at Brickle Bay. Of course we all know that is owned by Michael Posner. I will never forget when they searched the Moko and Arubans and Foreign press were throwing rocks at them and yelling obsentities. I was  also pretty angry when Dan Riehl  blasted TES back in July/Aug 2005 claiming they were drunking idiots.

Thanks  ::MonkeyDance::

Now I have the Arawaks Key

Many Thanks

RWV KeyWest (sandraK?):


Jossy's Bro. Luis Has a Casino in LaCabana . Sour Grapes!
and Jossy is anti**you know what**
Mike Posner gave TES over $100,ooo Room & board @ Brickell Bay.
I LIKE MIKE :^)

Posted by: Key West | Monday, November 21, 2005 at 06:22 PM

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/11/natalee_hollowa_61.
html

 ::MonkeyRoll::

I know they stayed at the Brickell. I saw them pulling a small SUV out of the lot and ran into a few of them at the Dunkin Donuts.

# The Brickell Bay Beach Club - Aruba
# John W. Fisk Co. Insurance
# Underwriters: Great American Insurance Co.
# Texas de Brazil
# The Wyndham - Aruba Resort, Spa and Casino
# Eduardo y Elaiza Roubicek
# S E Aruba Fly and Dive
# Red Sail Sports Aruba
# Aruban Search and Rescue

http://tinyurl.com/39fh7c

So, is Natalee considered local??  Criminal??  My guess is her case has always been considered local and Aruban, they just haven't said that Mos is only a mouth piece.  I think the official guideline pdf explains the kingdom's relation ship to the Antilles and Aruba.  I don't think the "borrowed" prosecutors can legally "lead" a local criminal case....but I don't know for sure.... ::MonkeyRoll::

Hi Spock!

I'm never 'real time' any more, so I always miss you online, and I've been wanting to respond to your thought provoking posts. I've been trying to figure out the silence 'options' as well.

If Mos closes the case he is, in effect, giving all the documents to Beth.  So, not sure.

In the past -- these disturbing silences were broken with big news. Not necessary good news. Just big. Maybe this time it will be big and nurturing for Natalee and her family.

The silence (from Aruba) could also be that everyone involved is realizing that everyone involved is a liar and corrupt with personal agendas for personal gain -- so no one trusts anyone and no one will speak with anyone  ::MonkeyHaHa::

The one thing I KNOW -- if they are once again sticking their heads in hiding places and hope that we do go away -- once again they will be proven wrong.


Boycott Aruba
Justice for Natalee

TES thank you list

http://www.texasequusearch.org/NataleeHollowaySupport.html

Karin Janssen ....

Was the prosecutor an advocate for the victim or ... was her role to distance Paulus van der Sloot from implication in the Natalee Holloway case.  Her changing stories regarding Paulus' words of  assurance causes one to question.

Janet

+++++++++++

Karin Janssen
'The Abrams Report'
June 30, 2005

JANSSEN:  The father has spoken with those three suspects, and he said he give them some legal advice, but I think the advices were going further than that.  They spoke about the situation that when there is no body, you don‘t have a case.  And that was already in the first day after the disappearance.  

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8430777


Karin Janssen
Associated Press
July 1, 2006

“He confirmed to me that he told them that a few days after she disappeared,” Janssen told the AP.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8389319/


Karin Janssen
CNN - WORLD
July 5, 2005

According to Janssen, Van Der Sloot also spoke about the case with his son and the two other suspects "some days after" Holloway was last seen.

"They were speaking about the situation that if you don't have a body, there is no case," Janssen said.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/07/03/aruba.missing/index.html

Janet she was sleeping with him.

Link please.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet

I'm a little torn between thinking something MAJOR is brewing and/or Aruba has FINALLY wised up and realized that their "campaign" featuring Renfro/Purcell/Rob Smith et al is actually doing more harm than good. I think they are in the "don't comment" stage. MO