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'Scarborough Country' for June 30, 2005

JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST:  One month without Natalee Holloway and growing anger over the investigation.  Tonight‘s top headline:  U.S. officials wage a secret war of words against Aruban officials.  We are going to have an inside story in a special SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY investigation. 

Welcome to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.  No passport required, only common sense allowed. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  My feeling is, there‘s a possibility that others are involved, including—you know, obviously, the judge, knows more than what he is telling. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCARBOROUGH:  A moment of silence marks one month since Natalee disappeared.  But cries for action are growing at home, as SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY uncovers Senate documents demanding immediate action from Aruba.  With Congress finally involved, will Natalee‘s family get the answers they need? 

You know, it‘s been one month to the day since Natalee Holloway disappeared in Aruba, and there‘s still no sign of the Alabama teenager, and, tonight, shocking results from a SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY investigation on Washington‘s secret war of words with Aruban authorities.  SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY has obtained Senate documents blasting the Natalee Holloway investigation as—quote—“a dead end,” while FBI officials are bitterly complaining that they have been shut out by Dutch authorities. 

Now, we are going to have a lot more on that exclusive report in one minute.

But, first, let‘s go live to Aruba to NBC‘s Martin Savidge for today‘s latest developments. 

And, Martin, I‘ve just got to start with the question, what‘s been the reaction to your explosive interview with the chief prosecutor last night? 

MARTIN SAVIDGE, NBC CORRESPONDENT:  Well, you know, the number one response that you‘ve had from people across the island and even outside of Aruba is that they are amazed as to how much that prosecutor opened up to us.  They really were surprised that she had so much to say when she started talking. 

Ms. Janssen is a woman that is known on the island to be as tough as nails and a woman who doesn‘t say a lot usually, especially to the media, and they were very surprised how she opened up, but, in many cases, very pleased about what they heard from her, that she was straight-talking and that she was not trying to sugarcoat anything about how the investigation was going. 

Let‘s talk about other things going on today on the island, the searching.  It has been dwindling over the past couple of days for a number of reasons.  But, today, we did see Dutch Marines out again on the search for the first time in a couple of weeks.  They were there with the Aruban police. 

The EquuSearch people, they have been scaling back some.  They say they are in the middle of a transition.  They hope to have more people arriving by the weekend to supplement those who had to leave.  Remember, they are volunteers, so they do have day jobs to go back to.  The van der Sloot family, Paul and Anita, for the first time today in a while, they had the opportunity to go visit their son.  That is at the prison where their son is now located, at the opposite end of the island.  KIA is how it‘s referred to.

Paul van der Sloot is not allowed to go visit his son.  He does, of course, drive his wife there.  Only Anita is allowed to go in and talk to their 17-year-old, who continues to be a prime suspect in the case.  It was a day of solidarity throughout the island of Aruba, but especially around this particular area, where the tourists are so heavy, the American influence is felt, and, of course, where the family of Natalee Holloway waits for word on the fate of that young woman. 

They had a special ceremony that took place late in the afternoon.  And it was quite moving to watch, as hundreds of people, those involved in the tourist industry, those who are just Arubans that wanted to be there, and, in many cases, tourists who stopped the vacation for the moment to join hands, to have a moment of silence, to listen and take part in a prayer, and be as one, as they thought about Natalee Holloway exactly one month since her disappearance. 

One very poignant sign, too, about the feelings of the United States and Aruba, there‘s a very tall hotel on the edge of the strip here.  Almost every day, it has an Aruban flag flying atop.  Today, something different, a huge American flag, a sign of solidarity—Joe.

SCARBOROUGH:  Martin, thanks so much.  We greatly appreciate your report. 

Now, tonight, disturbing reports out of Washington regarding this case.  SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY has obtained documents from a powerful U.S.  senator that was sent yesterday to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and the Aruban prime minister, letters demanding a more aggressive investigation into Natalee‘s disappearance. 

Now, copies of those letters were provided to Natalee Holloway‘s family and also members of the Dutch Embassy.  Senator Shelby‘s office refused any comment tonight, but they did confirm—and this is all they would confirm to me—that the letters had been sent. 

The letter to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice reads in part—quote—“Dear Madam Secretary, I am writing today regarding the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.  I request you engage the Aruban government in dialogue regarding their ongoing investigation of Ms.  Holloway‘s disappearance.  I am told that, while Aruban government officials initially invited the FBI to the island, the government did not grant the FBI sufficient investigative authority over the case.  I believe that it is essential the FBI be allowed to participate in a meaningful and substantive way.”

The letter to the prime minister of Aruba is also equally blunt.  The senator wrote—quote—“Dear prime minister, I believe the government of Aruba should invite the United States‘ Federal Bureau of Investigation to become an active participation in the ongoing investigation in a full and substantive manner.  The FBI was initially invited to Aruba to observe the investigation into Natalee‘s disappearance.  However, they had no clearly defined role, nor were they granted sufficient investigative authority over the case.”

The letter goes on to say this: “It is troubling to think that our governments are not working together to resolve this investigation.  It is my hope,” the senator says, “that the government of Aruba will formally request the assistance of the FBI and grant them full access to all evidence and information pertinent to the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.  I believe you will agree that it is imperative this case be resolved quickly and that it‘s done with the FBI‘s active involvement—unquote. 

Now, friends, I have learned much more.  U.S. officials also told me today that FBI agents in Aruba have grown increasingly frustrated with this investigation, with one agent complaining—quote—“They have not allowed us to do ‘blank,‘ anything.”  You fill in the blank. 

U.S. officials also complained tonight that the Dutch government is calling all the shots in this—quote—“incestual investigation” and all the power does not lie in Aruba.  All the power lies in the Netherlands.  An official told me—quote—“Everybody down there is protecting their friends.”  That‘s how one Washington official summed up the entire Natalee Holloway investigation. 

Now, some in Washington say it‘s because the Dutch police chief is—quote—“best friends” with Paul van der Sloot.  With much of official Washington seemingly convinced that the Dutch government is engaging in a cover-up of the investigation, what can the Alabama teenager‘s family do to find justice in this tiny Caribbean nation? 

Well, with us now, let‘s bring in a member of that family.  I believe we have with us Paul Reynolds. 

Paul, obviously, we have been following this story for some time.  But talking to you, here we have now a U.S. senator getting involved, taking the secretary of state of the United States to task and taking Aruban officials to task for not letting the FBI participate in this investigation.  What can you tell me about this senator‘s involvement and the letters? 

PAUL REYNOLDS, UNCLE OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY:  We are very glad to hear that response.  We think it‘s certainly needed.  When we hear reports that the father went on Dutch television and said that he was not even interrogated, we lose confidence in the system that‘s there and what‘s been happening. 

We thought the FBI was coming in to assist in the beginning.  We were very comfortable when they started arriving on the island.  You know, we were hopeful that the concerns we had about the preferential treatment they might be receiving on the island, that would be alleviated.

But it just—it—we don‘t see that.  Time...

SCARBOROUGH:  Well, Paul, you know, I am hearing two things today, Paul. 

First of all, I get a copy of these documents from the senator‘s office.  The senator, of course, won‘t talk to us.  But we get these documents that were mailed out yesterday. And, in the documents, the senator is clearly saying the FBI is not involved.  Then we talk to an official in Washington, D.C., who tells us that the FBI is bitterly complaining quote—“We are not allowed to do ‘blank.‘”

Very angry, and the FBI is angry.  Does the family share the FBI‘s anger, and has the family heard from the FBI that they are being cut off at the pass every single time? 

REYNOLDS:  They don‘t actually say that to us, but we can certainly see that in the activities that are going on.  They are simply not involved.  The fact that they were leaving the island, most of the agents were leaving in the middle of the investigation, certainly was a signal to us that they weren‘t being allowed access. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Now, Paul, you have also, of course, had—what are they? EquuSearch, I think it is.  EquuSearch has been involved in this.  They are out of Texas.  They went down there.  I have also been getting reports out of Washington today that they have been frustrated, that they haven‘t been given all the resources that they needed. What can you tell us about that search?  Are they getting frustrated?  And are they about to come home because the Dutch authorities are standing in the way? 

REYNOLDS:  I haven‘t actually heard those reports.

But in seeing the past activity, that would not surprise me at all.  Every aspect of this investigation has been delayed and postponed, and, you know, it‘s just not effective. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Can you tell me, Paul, how angry the family is tonight with the Dutch authorities?  And do you think the real problem here lies with the Dutch authorities, as I have been told today from all my sources in Washington, D.C., or is it with the Aruban authorities? 

REYNOLDS:  It‘s hard for us to differentiate, but certainly we can see that Aruba is not cooperating. 

I saw in one of the local newspapers today that they are forming a committee to protect the image of Aruba.  I don‘t think their priority is appropriate here. 

SCARBOROUGH:  We don‘t think it is, Paul.  Thank you for being with us.  Paul Reynolds, as always, we greatly appreciate it.  And thank you so much for all the hard work you are doing.  We are going to continue reporting on this. 

Friends, let me tell you something.  This is an incestuous investigation.  That‘s what Washington officials are saying.  I have got to tell you, it‘s so obvious.  You look at this.  You have the Dutch government.  And I was told—another source told me today, if you really want to know what‘s going on in Aruba, if you want to understand why we can‘t get to the bottom of anything, you know what?  You can‘t search for answers in Aruba.  You have got to follow it, follow that trail all the way over to the Netherlands, because that‘s where the real power of this investigation is.

And they are the ones that many in Washington, D.C., believe are covering up this investigation.  We are also hearing that, obviously, from agents in Aruba. 

Now, we are going to be back live in Aruba for more on the Natalee Holloway case.  We are going to have Natalee‘s aunt, Linda Allison.  She will be here to join us about the family‘s struggle just to get the facts and to keep the investigation going.  We are going to be asking for her reaction to today‘s developments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCARBOROUGH:  Growing anger among U.S. officials that there may be a cover-up going on in Aruba in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.  We will have that report and much more when this special edition of SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY continues. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCARBOROUGH:  While the search for Natalee continues, the questions remain.  Are the authorities in Aruba doing everything they can to resolve this case in the mad search for Natalee Holloway?  Are they keeping information from the FBI and Natalee‘s family? 

With us now live from Aruba, Arlene Ellis-Schipper.  She‘s an attorney down there. 

Arlene, thank you so much for being with us. 

You know, there‘s growing anger in America over what many consider in Washington, D.C., to be a cover-up.  But there also seems to be growing anger in Aruba.  Yesterday, you have the prosecutor come—coming out and delivering a somewhat harsh attack on the father.  What is going on down there?  Is there a growing impatience with this investigation, with the judicial system? 

ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, ARUBAN ATTORNEY:  Well, first of all, Aruba‘s reputation is on the line here.  Aruba has absolutely nothing to gain by covering up anything.  So, I am sure that it‘s not happening. 

Frustration?  I think on all parties have frustration about this case.  We all want this case resolved as much as possible as you do.  So, I think you are right that there‘s frustration both on the camp of the prosecution office and in the states, yes. 

SCARBOROUGH:  You know, I talked to law enforcement officers in America and Washington, D.C., today.  What they told me was that, when they talked to the prime minister, the prime minister was saying that this investigation is being run out of the Netherlands.  When they talk to Dutch authorities, they say, no, no, it‘s an Aruban investigation.  Help us out here. 

Who is in charge of this police investigation?  Is it the Aruban prime minister, that government, or is it the Dutch government? 

ELLIS-SCHIPPER:  No. 

Aruba, like any other country in Europe, has a division of powers.  We have what was called by Montesquieu the trias politica.  We have the executive power.  We have the legislative power.  And we have the judicial power.  The judicial power includes the police and the prosecutor.  They lead the investigation. 

Now, what was the minister, president, referring to is the Dutch Marines.  If you want help of the Dutch Marines, that is something of the Dutch government, because, as you know, Aruban—Aruba is part of the kingdom of Holland.  And our defense, including the Dutch Marines, is run by the Dutch government. 

SCARBOROUGH:  OK.  So, the Dutch are in charge of the investigation. 

What can you tell us about the...

(CROSSTALK)

ELLIS-SCHIPPER:  No, no, no, no, no, no.  I‘m—I‘m sorry. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Go ahead.

ELLIS-SCHIPPER:  The Dutch are not in charge of the investigation.  I am saying the judicial power in Aruba, including the police and the prosecution, those are in charge of the investigation. 

SCARBOROUGH:  OK.

ELLIS-SCHIPPER:  If you want help from Dutch Marines, that is Dutch. 

SCARBOROUGH:  OK.  Well, that—I will tell you what.  That clarifies something that goes against what I heard today from a law enforcement official. 

What can you tell us about the Dutch Marines?  Do they usually like to go it alone, or do you—can you give us any insight as to why the FBI may not be able to help as actively in this investigation as they would like?  Would it be unprecedented in Aruba for the FBI or a foreign investigative agency to come in and take part in this type of investigation? 

ELLIS-SCHIPPER:  Of course it‘s unprecedented, like it would be in the U.S. for a foreign country to take part in an investigation. 

The FBI simply doesn‘t have jurisdiction in Aruba, as the Aruban authorities have, of course.  The FBI has an advisory role in this part—in this—in this country. 

SCARBOROUGH:  All right. 

Arlene, thank you so much.  We greatly appreciate your insights and shining a light on some of these questions we have.  As always, we appreciate you being with us. 

Now let‘s bring in former FBI profiler Clint Van Zandt.

You know what, Clint?  I am just going to tell you the truth, OK?

CLINT VAN ZANDT, MSNBC ANALYST:  Yes.  Yes.   

SCARBOROUGH:  This young lady, she is an attorney.  She doesn‘t represent the Aruban government.  She doesn‘t represent Dutch authorities.  I am not going to invite her on and beat her up.  She can‘t answer for them, but I can tell you what I learned today.  I learned the FBI is mad as hell.  They are being shut out.  They are swearing.  They are saying, we are not being allowed to do anything. 

And I am also hearing from Washington officials that this is an incestuous investigation, that everybody knows everybody down there, and Americans are being kept at an arm‘s length.  I tell you what, something smells in Aruba.  What do we do?  What can the FBI do tonight? 

VAN ZANDT:  Well, Joe, every time as an FBI agent that I have been in a foreign country, it‘s somewhere between, “Go into a hotel room; stay there; if we have anything to tell you, we‘ll tell you; otherwise, don‘t leave the hotel room,” to, “Get your gun and come with us; we are going out to arrest terrorists, and you are part of the team.”

So, every country is going to do it different.  As your last guest suggested, it may be unprecedented in Aruba, but there are a lot of countries that would at least allow FBI agents to physically sit in the same room and be part of the actual interview team that‘s interviewing the suspects.  In this case, the Aruban authorities said, no, best-case scenario, FBI, sit in another room, watch it on closed-circuit television.  It‘s our country.  We‘ll tell you what we can do and can‘t do. 

That‘s why you see the FBI team has been reduced.

SCARBOROUGH:  Hey, Clint, though—hey, Clint.

VAN ZANDT:  Yes.  Yes. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Listen, man, this is like Disneyland down there.  They had one homicide last year, and they are telling the Federal Bureau of Investigation, thanks guys, but no thanks.  We don‘t need your help. 

Come on.  I bet there were more murders at Disneyland last year than in Aruba.

VAN ZANDT:  Well, you know, Joe...

SCARBOROUGH:  So, what do you do if you are an FBI agent and you know it‘s an incestuous relationship down there, you know there‘s a cover-up going on?  What do you do?

VAN ZANDT:  Well, you got a couple of choices. 

One, you could go in and get everybody upset, and they expect you are going to come in with the big FBI boots on, and they are not going to let you do it.  Otherwise, you kind of finesse your way in.  The finessing hasn‘t worked.  That‘s why you see the team from about a dozen agents down to one or two agents, because I don‘t think the FBI is going to sit there and pretend they are doing something, when the Arubans are not allowing them to do it.

And, Joe, Joe, we are 30 days behind.  Things could have been, should have been, would have been done, you know, you can‘t back that train up.  So, the Arubans, if they solve it, good.  If they don‘t, they got to take the hit on this one. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Again, you know, I talked to somebody in—up in Washington today, another person who told me that everybody is trying to protect everybody‘s friend. 

Well, Clint, you talked about 30 days passing by, nothing getting done, all of these mistakes happening, these boys being released for 11 days, the father being allowed to stay away for, what, three weeks? 

(continued)

VAN ZANDT:  Yes. 

SCARBOROUGH:  I mean, let‘s face it.  Give me—give me—you have done this your entire life.  Give me your professional advice.  If these officials had wanted to botch this investigation, if they wanted to protect a friend‘s son, if they wanted to stop Natalee from ever being found, could they have planned it any better than these Aruban authorities have planned it? 

VAN ZANDT:  I hear what you are saying, and I would like to heap coals on their head, Joe.

But I think part of it is just the lack of experience.  And Arubans are proud of that.  They will say, we are proud that we don‘t work homicide cases, like FBI agents and NYPD does.  But the flip side of that is that, when they do an interview, they say, OK, what do you have to say?  Thank you very much.  Close the notebook and walk out, where the FBI is ready to play good cop/bad cop, ready to psych them out, ready to play their words against each other. 

They don‘t do it like we do in our league, Joe.  It‘s a while ‘nother country, and that‘s part of it. 

SCARBOROUGH:  It‘s...

(CROSSTALK)

VAN ZANDT:  It is another country.  And they do it different. 

SCARBOROUGH:  It‘s minor leagues, Clint.  It‘s minor leagues. 

Clint, as always, thanks for being with us and helping us understand what‘s going on in this case.  We really appreciate it. 

VAN ZANDT:  Thanks, Joe. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Now, let‘s go back live to Aruba.  I want to talk to Natalee‘s aunt once again, Linda Allison.

Linda, thank you for being with us tonight.

Obviously, you have got a United States senator, you‘ve got secretary of state, you‘ve got a lot of law enforcement officers very angry about what‘s going on down there in Aruba.  Tell me, why did you all get the United States Senate involved? 

LINDA ALLISON, AUNT OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY:  Well, I think, obviously, the more voices that are being heard throughout the United States, that that just helps us in our case of not knowing anything.  And this has gone on for 30 days and we still don‘t know anything from the day one that we were here. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Are the Dutch officials covering up this investigation, covering up the facts on what really happened to Natalee? 

ALLISON:  It would be hard for me to speculate at this time.  The Dutch law is so different than it is in the United States.

And, of course, the FBI are not considered to be part of the investigation, only an advisory role.  And what I understand with the prosecuting attorney‘s office is that they play a few cards.  This is like a poker game, so that, when they hold the three suspects, in order for them to hold them, detain them longer, they just allow as little information as possible, only because they don‘t want the defense—the defense attorneys to be able to have time to react to the information that they do have once it comes to trial. 

SCARBOROUGH:  All right, Linda, let‘s hope that‘s the case. 

Stay with us, Linda.  I want to talk about the FBI.  I also want to talk about the ongoing search, but we have to go to a quick break. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCARBOROUGH:  A solemn prayer walk this morning in Aruba, as family and friends mark one month since the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. 

Let‘s go back to Aruba and talk to Natalee‘s aunt, Linda Allison. 

Linda, I want to ask you about a strong statement Senator Shelby put in his letter to Condoleezza Rice, our secretary of state.  He said the investigation is in Aruba is—quote—“at a dead end,” and that‘s why he said the FBI needs to be brought in.  Do you agree with that assessment? 

ALLISON:  I would tend to agree, because we are 30 days into this investigation, and we still don‘t have information.

And, if they truly do not have homicide, if that is what this case is going to be, they should have contacted the Dutch government in the very beginning.  If they don‘t have the experience here on the island to handle this case. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Linda, final question.  What can we in America do tonight?  Do you want us to write our senators, our congressmen, our president?  How can we help you? 

ALLISON:  Well, obviously, any voice out there would be helpful in any way. 

I do know, on another note, that the prime minister‘s office has been in contact with me since Sunday evening.  And I made a specific request for us to utilize the Dutch Marines with the EquuSearch group.  They told me yesterday afternoon they had completed the paperwork, and all of that type of information was completed, and that the—it was just a matter of getting the logistics of the Dutch Marines out.

And then we learned this afternoon, after making a few phone calls, that the police chief is actually the one who can activate the Marines because of the way, again, the governmental structure is here.  The prime minister doesn‘t have control over the Dutch Marines.  It‘s actually the police authorities.  So, they actually were activated this morning by van der Straaten, and not to any of our knowledge.

And I don‘t know why they chose not to start doing an additional search with the Dutch Marines, after we had requested that the Dutch Marines be working with EquuSearch.  So, there‘s a lot of miscommunication going on here. 

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH:  A lot of miscommunication, a lot of unanswered questions, and it all adds up to a tragedy. 

Linda, thanks again for being with us in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.  And, again, we are behind the family.  We will continue praying for you and also for Natalee. 

ALLISON:  Thank you so much. 

Tuesday, June 07, 2005

Aruban police in unmarked cars accompanied by FBI agents made a pre-dawn raid at 5 a.m. Sunday, rousting two suspects aged 28 and 30 from their beds.

Deputy police chief Gerold Dompig confirmed that the suspects were security guards.

Authorities declined to comment whether there was a relationship between the suspects and other three, earlier described as students — two Surinamese and a native of the Netherlands — who told police they dropped off Holloway at her hotel around 2 a.m. on May 30. Hotel employees, however, say that security cameras did not record her return.

Authorities were overheard on a police frequency Sunday evening issuing a bulletin to stop a rented white Toyota in connection with the disappearance of the 5-foot-4-inch blonde. Dompig declined to confirm it.

Authorities impounded three vehicles found at the two homes, and a team of more than a dozen FBI agents helping with the investigation will help perform forensic testing on them, police said.

Many feared the worst when authorities said they found a blood-soaked mattress at a beach in eastern Aruba on Sunday, but it turned out to be animal blood.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,158666,00.html

8:27 pm DT:
Question for people in aruba, at what time was the fact that NH was missing known to the public? I'm wondering this because why would the boys make up a story or get advice from their father on the monday she was reported missing, the only reason I can think of (assuming their innocence) is that they were scared of all the publicity. But if it wasn't known she missing yet why make up a story?

8:31 pm arubagirl:
We heard the story Monday, maybe? The thing is I heard it from a friend who is in the red cross, and another member was talking to a cop. But then it really broke Tuesday morning. We knew pretty early on about a Dutch guy and the two Surinamese brothers.

8:31 pm writenow:
Max Arendsz was also brought in for questioning.

8:36 pm writenow:
Police weren't notified until 9 pm that night because the chaperone thought when she told beach patrol, they were going to report it to the police. When the chap called police at 9 to find out what was going on, they didn't know anything about it. That's when it got officially reported, but I don't know if word was put out until the next day. Right, arubagirl?

8:42 pm writenow:
Quote:
We heard the story Monday, maybe? The thing is I heard it from a friend who is in the red cross, and another member was talking to a cop. But then it really broke Tuesday morning. We knew pretty early on about a Dutch guy and the two Surinamese brothers.

arubagirl, you heard from people or officially on the radio or TV? Because the police didn't know until 9 pm that night.

8:47 pm arubagirl:
Quote:
you heard from people or officially on the radio or TV? Because the police didn't know until 9 pm that night.

writenow, I could swear that I heard it around 6pm. I know that I was sitting at my computer and it was still light out when my friend called me. The thing about the boys was the next day, I think.

Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:10 pm
WidgetTheMidget wrote:

Help Me Here ...
During Interview Didn't Polis Chief van der Straaten State ...
That I Know The Facts Of This Case & You Don't ...
And That For Sure Natalee Was Murdered ...
Is This Correct ??

Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:31 pm
Rammstein wrote:

Rep: Hebt u nog hoop op een goede afloop?
reporter: are you still hopeful for a happy ending?

Jan: Hoop moet je altijd hebben, maar ik geloof niet meer dat we Natalee levend zullen terugvinden.
Jan: One should always have hope, but I don't believe any more that we will find Natalee alive.

Rep: Waarom niet?
reporter: why not?

Jan: Omdat ik het onderzoek ken en u niet.
Jan: Because am privy to the details of the investigation and you're not.

Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:34 pm
bondia wrote:

Jan: Omdat ik het onderzoek ken en u niet.
Jan: Because I know about the investigation and you don’t.

Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:25 pm
bluebob: Bondia, do you think PVDS is Lorenzo's padre?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:29 pm
bondia: The quote I have is "We met this kid for the first time when he was 9 years old in his father's garage when we took our car to be repaired. The only other thing we know about him is he had problems and was in and out of school and eventually dropped out."

This is all I know.

Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:31 pm
bluebob: Thanks, bondia, and you are quoting ???? I know I have heard that quote b4, but not sure who said it.

no response

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Fri Aug 26, 2005

4:49 pm
Sooz: If Geraldo was right about the videos, then this could eventually lead to Mr. Pink and all that smut about internet videos, right?

4:54 pm
Majielle: I hope those girls are getting a lot of support. They are very courageous to step forward

4:55 pm
sunmoonstars: This press release came down from the prosecutors. This is the email from the prosecutor to MSNBC

They are in custody based on the same suspicions as before. They are suspected of the primary criminal act of together with other people committing premeditated murder.
Alternately, together with other people murdering somebody.
More alternately, rob a person of her liberty with fatal consequences.
Even more alternately, raping somebody.

Aside from these suspicions against these two brothers,
There are new suspicions which at this point the prosecutor is not commenting on. To arrest the Kalpoe brothers, there had to be new facts and circumstances, that is the case!

4:56 pm
omega: It might be possible that NH's remains were found in early June, and that only the family & the prosecutor are aware of this.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=1613

The above URL contains info about something found while digging in an Aruban pond which was so large and/OR heavy, that it required two men to load it onto a truck.

The stories state that the press was cordoned off, and that BHT was present... maybe it is true, and would explain alot of Beth's comments and actions.

4:59 pm
AZLady: Who are the other two in custody, besides the Kalpoes? Freddy and someone else?

4:59 pm
sunmoonstars: We are told they will be held at least 4 days and there will be a hearing
Prosecutors made it VERY clear Kalpoe brothers are arrested in connection with Natalee
The other boy, the friend and neighbor of VDS is NOT connected with NH in any way.

Satish attorney says:
Arrests are based on new information involving 4 people...the 2 K brothers, the friend and Joran
In part at least on new allegations involving young girls and photos

5:04 pm
AZLady: The reason I doubt the theory about them finding Natalee's body in early June is that Beth and Jug allowed the searchers to work in the landfill, jeopardizing their lives and health. They wouldn't have done this had they known.

5:04 pm
arubagirl: So, anything new? Kidding, kidding. So, do we know who the other guy is?

5:05 pm
AZLady: Arubagirl, were the Kalpoes and two others arrested? Or the Kalpoes and one other guy? I can't find accurate info.

5:06 pm
klaasend: No...only Freddy. Not sure if there's more, I'm thinking not.

5:06 pm
sunmoonstars: Catherine Crier Fri

Based on the same suspicions as before. There are new suspicions, or they couldn't re arrest the K brothers.

Art Wood: We have known for a long time that the LE have statements from these boys. They Know where Natalee is.

Freddy Arandashi?? Uses the name Freddy Arends, he is a close friend and neighbor of Jorans.

5:07 pm
AZlady: On the radio said that four new arrests were made, but then I heard it was only three. Anyway, I heard the name of one guy, but I don't know if it's right or not.

5:08 pm
sunmoonstars: AG: Art Wood is saying Freddy Arandashi?? also says he goes by Freddy Arends.

5:09 pm
arubagirl: I think it's not Arends. I'll check it out on Monday.

5:10 pm
DT: The ex-girlfriend of Joran, Melody or whatever, is saying on RWV that the guy's name is Freddy Zedan.

5:11 pm
DT: Someone said that he was Joran's doubles partner in tennis.

5:12 pm
sunmoonstars: AG: They said a neighbor and friend of Jorans. Does that help?

5:14 pm
arubagirl: Well, if he is a neighbour and lives in the same neighbourhood (montanja), then I can check, hold on.

5:14 pm
barbiegirl23: This Freddy is listed as a doubles tennis partner of Joran in the Aruban paper of Sept 2004...

5:15 pm
arubagirl: There is an Arends that lives at Montanja... Check the other last names.

5:15 pm
sunmoonstars: There are conflicting statements from the brothers and Joran. The brothers describe the fact that Joran was assaulting NH in the back seat of the car

5:16 pm
arubagirl: No person named zedan in the phone book, not that it means that he doesn't exist, just not in the phone book.

5:17 pm
DT: Well there is some Aruban paper that states he was Joran's doubles partner in a tennis tournament not too long ago.

5:17 pm
arubagirl: Nor Arandashi / Arendashi.

5:17 pm
klaasend: I'm thinking it's Freddy Arends: Blue shirt on left - middle with cap on right.
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/freddycopy.jpg)

5:19 pm
arubagirl: Yes that's who I thought it was as well. Why don't these things happen on a Friday? Now I have to wait a whole weekend to find out more. BLECH!

5:22 pm
DT: Jossy: We don't know that he was arrested in relation to this case, though he was questioned about it at the beginning. We have heard that he had alibi that said he was with Joran that night.

Dan Riehl said earlier that the Freddy guy is the same person who was staying at Joran's apartment that night.

5:22 pm
whodunit: Does HE  live at Aruba Racquet Club?

5:24 pm
fluffy monkey: Geraldo said that this guy was a fake alibi and faked that he stayed with Joran that night.

5:24 pm
nancy drew: http://www.aeromodelers.sr.org/david/am28sep04.pdf  28 sept 2004
B-Doubles team Freddy Zedan/Joran van der Sloot beat Peter Villevoix/Lex Burgman in a surprise sweep

5:25 pm
arubagirl: No, owner of the place told me the homes are only used as vacation homes by wealthy tourists.

5:26 pm
fluffy monkey: Wonder if "someone" has a key to one of them....

5:28 pm
whodunit: Hmmm...maybe it could at least explain what the boys were doing late that night (3am) near the ARC. Maybe meeting his tennis partner.......hmmmmm

5:32 pm
odds on: Who - For what it's worth, the AM Digitel article (link posted above)about the September 2004 tennis tounament that jvds and Freddy Z won took place at the Aruba Racqut Club. Coincidences abound.

5:34 pm
arubagirl: I swear to God I am getting tired of reading "Gilliam van der Straten". Seriously, who makes up this crap?

5:36 pm
whodunit: I thought NativeLingo said that was his name, but he is not related? Is that not his name?

5:37 pm
arubagirl: There isn't even someone of that name on the bloody island! Gilliam, that is.

5:38 pm
whodunit: Ok, I was confused. She said not related though. Anyway, do you know who that is then?

5:38 pm
arubagirl: Haven't got a clue.

5:42 pm
HannieC: if there is a 4th person arrested than i think it`s significant that nobody seems to know who that person is nor his initials or name...Makes me wonder who that is.....(and than i`m not thinking of Paulus).BTW...

5:44 pm
bondia: Freddy Z.

Freddy's middle name is Alexander and it is customary to never use somebody’s last name in Aruba until they have been charged.

The rules were obviously broken in Natalee's case as it has been a free for all of accusations since the Beginning

6:00 pm
Port Valerie: New Greta Wire emailed at 5:41 PM:

What has caught my attention most is the timeline we have pieced together. From Satish's lawyer the other night on the show, we learned that someone was on the Internet at the Kalpoe residence from 2 a.m. to 3 a.m. Why did that person get off the Internet at 3 a.m.? Note that 3 a.m. is the exact time that Joran van der Sloot's second call went to Deepak's cell phone (the first was 2:40 a.m.) Stay tuned. We will have more tonight.

6:01 pm
sunmoonstars: Catherine Crier/Friday

Crier: Can you tell me anything about this Freddy?

Jossy: We hear 2 versions:
The official press release that the prosecution put out did not mention him at all
People are under the impression that his arrest may be related to another case
He was arrested in the beginning with relation to this same case
There is no mention from the police in regards to this third man
Third man is a friend of them, partied with them, many pics with him
He was questioned in the beginning in regards to the Natalee case
Do you have any info as to his whereabouts the night Natalee disappeared?
Jossy: I hear his alibi is that he was with Joran

6:02 pm
WonderWoman: ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT, LILIAN REGINA, MONTANJA 39-F

6:02 pm
AZLady: I found an ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ, ALBERT and LILIAN REGINA who live in MONTANJA. http://www.arubachamber.com/LC%20KLEIN%2005-06-2005.htm

6:05 pm
NativeLingo: MONTANJA 39-F is a neighbor of Joran's allright!

6:05 pm
arubagirl: Wonderwoman and AzLady are good, I suck

6:06 pm
peaches: WOOHOO!! At least we don't have to wait until Monday.

6:07 pm
klaasend: So why is Bondia saying the last name starts with a Z ?

6:08 pm
arubagirl: I have no idea. I'm guessing that Bon Dia is checking back with the group.

6:09 pm
Shell: Maybe the stop at the other bar that was mentioned was to pick up Freddy? Just thinking

6:10 pm
Hat: So when do we get to search Freddy's house?

6:11 pm
WonderWoman: Hey AZ!! Arubagirl said wait till Monday...that was killin' me!!! Patience is a virtue, but I used it all on the kids'!!! Now is 39F close to 19 ?

6:12 pm
new girl: Michelle Kosinski on MSNBC is saying that Kalpoe attorney believes Kalpoe arrests are based in part on other allegations involving "photos and young girls".

6:13 pm
NativeLingo: VDS= Montaña 19...

6:14 pm
RobertJ: BINGO! Directory listing: Arambatzis, Freddy. Aruba. I've got his e-mail and his TICKLE site too: Freddy Locoman Pimp

6:14 pm
arubagirl: Wonderwoman, I'll have to go and check, but the housenumbers here are usually a big mess.

6:16 pm
NativeLingo: ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT, LILIAN REGINA, MONTANJA 39-F
could be either Venezuelan or Colombian....only they use 2 last names here...

6:19 pm
DT: Jossy says: Freddy arrested on charges of taking and selling pictures of young naked girls. He was questioned initially in the NH case.

6:21 pm
WidgetTheMidget: Dont Be Surprised If What Happened To Natalee Was Recorded ........

6:21 pm
bondia: As we have already told RED, SM usually knows what it going on before MSM and 99% of Aruba. Based on the Tennis match from AM Digital and the initials givin by the police F.A. (and usually most people in Aruba have at least 3 if not 4 initials in thier name) We were told that Joran has a friend named Freddy Alexander.

Since Jossy was the one who found the girls with the rape accusations, so we are sure that he has the right Name since it is his find.

ARAMBATZIS in Montana sounds like a winner! Thanks for the Good work Monkeys.

6:22 pm
arubagirl: Sorry, guys, I have to go and I'm going to try and find the house, in case it matters.

6:23 pm
scared tom: The new guy arrested was for selling pics of young naked girls
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/video/YNG.wmv

6:24 pm
AZLady: AG, take your camera, okay? You might find some interesting shots at #39

6:25 pm
bluebob: Our own reporter, Arubagirl, embedded and on her way to Montana!!

6:25 pm
DT: Aruban attorney: I doubt that it is a coincidence this guy was arrested at the same time and lived near Joran.

6:28 pm
DT: Aruban Attorney: It is possible that the Kalpoes stated Joran sexually assaulted Natalee, and were still released.

6:31 pm
NativeLingo: DT, it wasn't a coincidence...

6:32 pm
nancy drew: They said it on Abrams...the part about Freddy knowing about the disposal of the body...

6:34 pm
RobertJ: PHOTO on Locoman Pimp Freddy's TICKLE site.. Sander/female/Joran

6:34 pm
cancon: sometimes having a nickname like Loco Man /Pimp looks like a bad idea in retrospect

6:35 pm
klaasend: By the way, I have a pretty good source that tells me this Freddy is in a band that plays at CnC.

6:38 pm
sunmoonstars: He was brought in before for questioning.

6:38 pm
Hat: Nancy, You mean Paulus recruited Freddy for the clean? Shades of Fagin.

6:41 pm
bluebob: Wonder how Arubagirl is making out at 39F Montana, and how many MSM reporters are also headed there!!

6:42 pm
sandraK: Freddy Cuz..Lissette' ...lives..in Usa.... her Mom maybe is... Rebeca Zedan (Female, 52) Location: Venezuela. his aunty?? or something?

6:43 pm
tcumom: Does anyone remember Geraldo's comments looooong time ago about porn stuff and pics? Think I'm remembering correctly.....just a comment.

6:45 pm
DT: Yeah I brought this up earlier, it would be insane if Geraldo turned out to be right. I can't think of one person who believed him when said this.

6:45 pm
RobertJ: photo from Freddy's tickle site: Locoman/Jaime/Joran

6:46 pm
cancon: indeed I remember it clear as day, what was puzzling that Geraldo never mentioned it again, not to my recollection, until perhaps today, maybe the Aruban LE contacted him and asked him to hush up? and for once one of Geraldo's wild statements could be coming true.........

6:49 pm
sunmoonstars: Abrams Friday
Talking to Aruban attorney

Abrams: : What do you make of the arrest of this friend

Attorney: I agree with you that it is not coincidential. If you talk about separate charge, one of the separate charge is disposal of a body. Which is a separate crime. If this person who is a friend of Joran, I think the prosecutionin the back of their mind want to crack him to see if he had something to do with the disposal of a body.

Abrams: Do you know that or speculating?

Attorney: No, there are many presumptions here.

6:51 pm
writenow: If Freddy has been brought in and Freddy, Joran & Jaime Carrasquilla were all best friends, is Jaime next to be arrested? BTW Satish is now calling himself the King of bling bling on his tickle site. Good grief. Maybe he's getting the bling bling from selling pics of naked girls.

6:58 pm
OneSillyMonkey: If Freddy is known to take photos of this group's activities with the girls they drug and rape, and if this indeed was a premeditated murder that Freddy accompliced, there is a photo or video of Natalee somewhere with these boys - I would bet my right arm on that.

7:01 pm
NativeLingo: No matter what, Aruba will always be the "One Happy Island". see you later......ciao

7:14 pm
OneSillyMonkey: My understanding of today's news is that Freddy was arrested, along with the Kalpoes, for the same crime (premeditated murder, disposal of body, etc). They must have more on him than just being in possession of and taking nude photos of underaged girls

7:17 pm
friend of monkey: but Vanderstraten does have a son jorans age? or not known?
 
7:18 pm
arubagirl: Just called Native, she's not mad, she had to go. I couldn't find the house, I'm sorry guys, I found 39, but not 39-K.

7:18 pm
HannieC: I believe his youngest son is 24 and the oldest 33 or 34

7:23 pm
mom2three: Could 39-K be an apartment behind a house, sort of like Joran's?

7:24 pm
arubagirl: It could be, mom, but the house that had number 39 didn't have an apartment

7:25 pm
HannieC: If I'm not mistaken it was 39 F, ag....

7:26 pm
arubagirl: I didn't find any house that had a letter behind a number 39, Hannie.

7:30 pm
cancon: see here is the deal, and this is pure speculation at this point,
you take a video or picture on the cell phone but then I think you have to save the file and send it to whomever, maybe more advanced people can find a way to do it live

the point is that file may have been saved on the cellphone or the computer

now they presumably would have deleted it but there are ways to retreive deleted info, you'd think Deepak would know that but maybe he isn't familiar with how to do it on cell phones or maybe there are ways even he didn't know about or someone got stupid and made hard copies like videos or photos and then deleted the files.......and those hard copies were found, perhaps in possession of Freddy or someone else who was holding onto them for the boys........

or maybe it got accidentally emailed to someone else, who didn't delete it??? you know how you have group mail outs hmmm.....

or maybe they didn't delete the pictures and the computer forensics guys found them finally

7:31 pm
HannieC: Ok AG, I thought it must be that b/c i`m sure if there were letters behind the house #s you had found them, lol!! Maybe the F stands For Freddy

7:31 pm
sandrak: Rebeca Zedan (Female, 52) Location: Venezuela. Aunty ??

7:32 pm
cancon: I meant checking out for the house ... the Monkeys may have beaten the MSM to the address, except Aruba girl couldn't find 39F, maybe it is just 39?

7:33 pm
arubagirl: That particular house was pretty quiet, looked like nobody home.

7:33 pm
bondia: WRITENOW said earlier that Jaime would be arrested! Are you part of the ALE or a clairvoyant of a Monkey PI. Who can spell his last name right?

7:35 pm
widgetThemidget: The Occupant Is On Vacation .............. At KIA ....................

7:37 pm
sandrak: Jaime Carrasquilla

7:38 pm
the big hammer:
1. The 2:40am call is the link w/ video to k residence to download. Call may have linked to assault live? Depends on duration of call.

2. 3:10 am is the voice call to say: "something's wrong -- come get me."

3. From k2 residence, numerous 3rd parties could link in to view the 2:40am "show."

7:39 pm
Shell: Tito was listed on that tickle site of Freddy. When I looked at it when RobertJ first posted, Ruben Trapenberg was on there also, then when I went back a while later, his photo (RT) was gone. Maybe I don't understand how tickle sites work.

7:39 pm
bondia: Good Try SANDRA K, but I have another spelling, but I have been wrong before. Rumors are strong that he will be picked up tomorrow.

7:40 pm
DT: Any clue what the exact connection is here between these two new detainees and the NH case, other than their relationship with the three?

7:40 pm
whodunit: How far from the VDS residence? How many houses in between?

7:43 pm
bondia: The Rumor on Aruba was that four were arrested today, but the police confirmed only 3, possibly another tomorrow. We spoke to Jaime and he thinks it is about some pictures that were taken in April, but they were deleted after the girl asked them to. He said they weren't illicit, but she didn't like them. They have all continued a friendship relationship since and he is surprised that she would be complaining now. Jaime also lives in Montana. To make it clear, he didn't even know that anyone has made a complaint, but that is the only thing he could think anyone could complain about. Since then, the girl has remained friends with all of them - even been to family parties at Joran's house.

7:45 pm
whodunit: How far from the VDS residence? How many houses in between?

7:48
sadie: I also saw Ruben's picture on Freddy's tickle site. At that time Freddy's hobbies/interests also listed:****ing at parties. Maybe I don't understand how tickle sites work either.

7:49 pm
whodunit: But isn't 2:40 am about the time the missing gardener saw them around the ARC?

7:49 pm
arubagirl: I'm looking for the address in the phonebook, what was the address, again, please?

7:53 pm
sandraK: bondia, Anyone with..."SA"..... as Nic?

7:55 pm
writenow: You're funny bondia. Monkey ALE PI clairvoyant. My new title. I posed it as a question not a fact.

You tell me -- are they going to arrest Jaime? He's tight with Freddy and Joran. Makes sense he's in this, too.

7:55 pm
cancon: well I thought he said 2:30 am, could the assault have taken place before 2:40 am, 2:30 am they just transmitted the video file at 2:40 am under a pretence which would mean real premeditation if they had already worked out their alibis in advance here........

you can tape and save a video file on those phones too, may not have been live........

7:56 pm
san: I hope to god there isn't a video out there. Very disturbing.

7:56 pm
bondia: Hi SANDRAK

It was spelled out for us as Carasquia, but since he made his own tickle site, I will give him credit that he knows how to spell his own name, although...

As for SA - we would need more details.

7:57 pm
the big hammer: In this theory,

1. Call initiated by the goon to k residence: something wrong, come get me.

2. k residence: on line show ends (when call is received - 3:00am). Log off.

7:59 pm
lilorphan: It was on Riehl, I believe posted by "Billy" that one was online and then taken off. Also, when Jug said that Joran assaulted Natalee...they asked him how he knew...he gave a rueful kind of laugh and said something like "Let's just say it's documented."

The way he said it made me immediately think of "billy's" video claim.

8:00 pm
sandrak: Time will tell ....

8:04 pm
crazybabyborg: Greta: Freddy arrested now to put pressure on Joran. Has nothing to do with Nat's disappearance. Satish and Depak picked up on suspicion of rape.

8:13 pm
crazybabyborg: Jossy: Freddy provided an alibi for Joran

8:14 pm
crazybabyborg: Jossy: my info from our sources in the LE is that 3 girls came forward with statements of being date drugged and raped

8:15 pm
arubagirl: Found Montanja 39 G, not no 39- F yet

8:15 pm
writenow: Oh, one more thing.

Jaime lives on the same street as the van der Sloots. Jaime Carrasquilla/Carrasquilla, Acuna Omar/Montanja 232

8:15 pm
I hear shango: hey....question.....earlier today someone posted a picture of a kid that looked like the google kid Koen, friend of many...and said that is was Van Straaten's son. Is it Koen? the friend that visited Joran with Freddy and Jaime on his birthday? if so....he changed his tickle name recently to K.g. instead of koen...why?

8:16 pm
HannieC: Wow were you back again to that address?

8:18 pm
arubagirl: Guys, I meant in the phonebook.... Not out on the road. Heh

8:19 pm
suz3nscar: Sometimes I think Nancy Grace is nuts....just came back on the air with Elvis' Jailhouse Rock playing

8:21 pm
port valerie: Stupid question maybe but if they were taping and "broadcasting," would they not need lighting? Thus, an interior place -- not the beach -- would be indicated.

8:21 pm
san: On NG lawyer stated Freddy won't be able to have a lawyer for several days.

8:22
pj: Are there any left?

8:22 pm
sooz: NG says CNN is trying to confirm the arrest of a 4th suspect. Did I miss something?

8:22 pm
fluffy monkey: Freddie takes pictures for the Pimp Gang says the guy on NG

8:24 pm
sooz: OMG!! NG is going to tick off the Arubans again. She looked straight at the camera and said "Attention Aruban police. Separate cells!"

8:27 pm
OneSillyMonkey: NG -

Kapoe bros not being questioned right away. Letting them sit, being informed that they will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law for the seriousness of crimes they are accused of - this is a method to induce fear into them in order to get them to more easily talk when the interrogations begin. They are being careful not to try and force information out of them that can later be thrown out due to a forced confession.

Fourth suspect IS in connection with NH case.

8:32 pm
pj: No one knows anything about a fourth suspect being arrested. I think someone said maybe tomorrow.

8:38 pm
arubagirl: Found 39-E as well, but no other number with 39-x and no, we can't look up addresses online and/or directions. Wish we could. The roads here probably confuse the satellites too.

8:43 pm
OneSillyMonkey: Aruba does not have a plea bargain deal, but they have something similar that can be used. Unfortunately, NG cut off her guest in mid-sentence, so whatever that something else is that can be used was not stated.

8:44 pm
I hear shango: since no one answered me before...i will ask again....is Koen the same kid that people were saying was Van Straaten's son earlier?

He recently changed his name on his tickle site to K.g.

8:46 pm
arubagirl: No, they called him "Gilliam".

8:48 pm
I hear shango: AG...so Koen is also known as Gilliam? If so, is he Straaten's son?

8:48 pm
DT: Both Freddy and Jaime were present with the Van Der Sloots on Joran's 18th birthday at KIA

8:50 pm
I hear shango: DT....yes, they were and Koen was also there.

8:54 pm
arubagirl: NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

8:57 pm
ting: Could he be persuaded to adopt him, to save SM bandwidth?

8:58 pm
mom2three: Father says the American media needs to lay off his son...told to Current Affair. He sort of threatened them to lay off. He told court that American media had invaded Joran's privacy by taping Joran. He helped the court set the $600K fine.

9:00 pm
bluebob: PVDS HELPED the court set the fine? He is involved at that level? This is really bad news.

9:01 pm
arubagirl: I highly doubt it. He probably demanded that sum and the court gave it to him, but it's not like he conferred with the judges and was like "yeah, one million, that's good, say that".

9:03 pm
san: from tv for those w/o the channel, Freddy's involvment in the case is with a car.

9:05 pm
I hear shango: Helen Lejuez said Freddy....physical evidence regarding the car......

9:06 pm
nancydrew: Hannity and Colmes....

Helen: Says this is considered a gang rape...Freddy was brought in due to the car (which car???) .

Paul Reynolds: First time he's heard the term "gang rape"

HC: Is this a homicide?

PR: Joran said Deepak raped, murdered Natalee

Helen: 60 Days now for the boys brought in today. The prosecutor told her this has to do with murder and rape. She has more info not from the prosecutor, and it is quite secure.

9:08 pm
arubagirl: So much for the gang-rape being 'secret', which my source told me it was.

9:10 pm
justinsmama: Is that what you were going to reveal around the 4th? Or part of it, anyway?

9:10
DT: Do you know anything more about this?

9:11 pm
arubagirl: no, this I heard today.

9:11 pm
little miss: Secret from who?

9:12 pm
arubagirl: No, nothing more, only about the gang-rape taking place.

9:13 pm
DT: Does this involve all of the boys, or just the three?

9:14 pm
friend of monkey: freddy lives behind jorans apartment...on FOX

9:14 pm
arubagirl: All of them.

9:16 pm
ting: I wonder if this is related to that original US wire service story, something about all 3 having indicated some sort of intimate contact or fooling around, I don't remember what the wording was or the specifics, like who told the reporter this, or to whom the boys allegedly said it, this was right at the beginning, even before Mickey and Abraham were arrested.

Maybe somebody else will have a better memory, or even a link to the story if it still exists anywhere on the internets.

9:16 pm
nancydrew: Hannity and Colmes

Reporter/Aruba... It's a "commission based crime." Freddy lives in the neighborhood.

9:20 pm
I hear shango: jossy said there are a total of 6 girls who have come forward....not including Natalee.....

9:22 pm
sooz: Hmmm, another vote for a 4th new suspect in jail today.
Hanity and Colmes transcript: Friday August 27

Helen: Him (Freddie) and another detainee in jail right now. Freddie is a friend of Jorans and has something to do with the car. According to my (Helen’s) sources, he is part of the “gang” and what we are getting is that he is involved in the rape case and it has to do with the car. I have other news that I haven’t yet confirmed, another young man who hasn’t yet been brought before the judge.

Uncle: That is the first time I have heard that phrase used (gang rape) We have heard sexual assault.

9:26 pm
candygirl: Maybe its freddy's place they went back to? I sure hope the LE is doing a search there!

9:32 pm
fluffymonkey: Larry King Live, Friday August 26, 2005

Dave Holloway : We were concerned about September 4 date coming up but now it looks like Joran is probably not going to be let go. FBI called and told us about Kalpoe brothers and Freddy. Prosecutor is very confident.

Steve Holloway (uncle): Very happy they arrested K2, maybe we can find out a little more.

Harris Faulkner (Current Affair): Polis said FBI made a difference and gave them confidence. The polis were very involved and busy in keeping up with K2 .

Cardoza: Young women have come forward saying K2 were involved in using date rape drugs Now police can turn up the heat even though it didn’t have to do with NH case.

9:38 pm
I hear shango: polis chief was not overhead saying how can i do this to my best friend's son....he was on national tv saying it...I saw it with my own eyes.

9:39 pm
lost in time: what did they mean when they said commission base crime?

9:41 pm
peaches: Vinda just said they collected DNA from the VDS property.

9:45 pm
TNDude: Doesn't commission-based crime mean a for-profit crime? Like how people work on commission?

9:45 pm
littletxlady: Geraldo told about the videos, gang rape and the best friend thing on the same night, in the very beginning of this case.

9:48 pm
luna: Sounds to me like it's a crime where an act has been "committed."

9:51pm
margaritaville: CNN just mentioned the TicKle sites!!!

9:55 pm
peaches: Harris Faulkner just said they keyed into the boys from the start and got their cell phone #s from their Tickle sites. Called 'em up.

9:56 pm
fluffymonkey: Larry King Live

Fresno, CA caller: We heard there was an admission of sexual assault by the boys. When were those statements made?

Vinda: They were made early on. Beth said that the first night – Joran admitted certain sexual consensual acts.

Cardoza: On small islands there are men who prey on tourist girls because the govt will not bring them back to prosecute, so perhaps there are others out there.

Jossy: 16 year old girl has made statement to child advocate, said this happened with Joran. Two other 18 year olds will not come forward. Diario has three other girls who made “drugs and rape” statements to the polis.

Harris: Current Affain pulled info from TICKLE!!!!! Three guys described themselves as having healthy sex lives (Joran, particularly) Thinks it is relevant to look at lifestyle, says tickle is explicit, AND THE WAY CURRENT AFFAIR GOT IN TOUCH WITH JORAN THE FIRST TIME WAS FROM HIS CELL PHONE NUMBER ON TICKLE.

9:58 pm
sunmoonstars: Current Affair

We pulled several items off of Tickle.com
These three guys, particularly Joran described themselves as having pretty healthy sex drives
 
We learned of these before they were even arrested
Hooking up with women, it was explicit
They put their cellphones on the internet, we picked up the phone and called Joran in the very beginning

10:01 pm
friend of monkey: early on a gang bang tape w/ joran and a 14 yr old was mentioned here..

10:03 pm
kackylacky: yes by Geraldo...............and we all scoffed.

10:17 pm
Shell: Charles Croes on June 2nd posted the following on visitaruba.com:

There are issues in this case that can go beyond the obvious in their implications.

It will take time for all the information regarding this lovely child to come out. Some of it will be hard to handle, and some of it will be expected.

With regards to the family of this missing child, my prayers are with you. I was with them the first night they arrived in Aruba looking for their daughter from midnight until 5:30am, and have kept in touch.

In my opinion this issue has far reaching implications for all those involved.

I wish all of us strength.

Charles

10:18 pm
DT: I don't think there is anyone here who doesn't know of this statement, I'm seriously going to go insane if I see it posted again.

10:28 pm
crazybabyborg:  Anyone know what the nature of the alibi was that Freddy supplied for Joran?

10:30 pm
writergal: I think Freddie said he slept over at Joran's house on the relevant night

10:30 pm
DT: From what I understand, he said he stayed at Joran's apartment that night, which is something he and other friends often do. He claimed Joran got home at a certain time, and that he said he had met an American girl, but that nothing sexual had taken place.
 
10:41 pm
sleddogs: At the beginning of the show they were talking about Freddy being linked somehow due to the car. Not sure which car...but, they referred to the info from the gardener...

If I remember right awhile back when they first brought the gardener in wasn't there a problem with him not being able to identify one of the K2's? Maybe that was because the other person in the car that night was later identified as Freddy.

10:42 pm
kackylacky: Jossy said on Abrams this afternoon, that freddy told ALE he was "with" joran that night...........and that was all that was said about it. The usual comments about that not being too smart was what followed.......no further detail. But I am thinking freddy may have tried to alibi joran for the time after the HI drop off.............which begs the question.........why did they arrest steve for giving deepak an alibi, but did not arrest freddy for doing the same for joran. Interesting.............

10:48 pm
pj: Yet Joran went to school bragging about having sex, am I right?

10:49 pm
kackylacky: when in fact, both of them could have been with her at joran's or at freddy's......................Vinda said tonight that DNA was collected at joran's........I didn't hear if she said what kind or much more than it was collected.

If according to Helen, freddy is also attached to this case because of a car............could freddy have provided joran with transportation ( remember the walk with only one shoe line ) or moving the body?

10:49 pm
sunmoonstars: Greta Fri
 
Greta Timeline According to the statements from Nadira and Kock

1:50 am May 30th Deepak and Satish home
2:00 am someone on the internet until 3:00 am
2:40 am first phone call from Joran to Deepak
3:00 am is the second call from Joran to Deepak..same time he gets off the internet

Joran has himself walking home, Deepak has himself going and picking him up and driving him home

SHOCKtheMONKEY Says:
June 23rd, 2005 at 11:39 am
the boys are innocent. only witness. co and sa are key.

long ago, we tossed this around:
co = columbia / sa = south america

or

F A was overheard/passed along verbally/not written down
and the listener took it as S A

Freddy Arambatzis

similar to the passed along misspelling of Jaime's name, above

CO and SA and NO and STRA ?

just a thought

Thanks Finn...I have been looking for some of those gems you posted...Freddy and the car and the Raquet Club! And Jaime!

y/w :wink:

need help refreshing my memory:

when did we learn
that Freddy was overnight guest of JvdS
on the night NH went missing?

I don't remember hearing it early on/in june ...
but we heard it in late august when Freddy/K2 arrested, yes?

remember hearing that:
JvdS went home, got online, checked scores, had snack, etc

don't recall: spoke w/ BFF who was spending the night,
who stayed at my house while I went to CnC's w/K2

wondering if purpose of alibi is not to benefit JvdS
but rather to benefit Freddy?

Fri Aug 26, 2005
5:22 pm
DT: Jossy: We don't know that he was arrested in relation to this case, though he was questioned about it at the beginning. We have heard that he had alibi that said he was with Joran that night.

Dan Riehl said earlier that the Freddy guy is the same person who was staying at Joran's apartment that night.

5:24 pm
fluffy monkey: Geraldo said that this guy was a fake alibi and faked that he stayed with Joran that night.

6:09 pm
Shell: Maybe the stop at the other bar that was mentioned was to pick up Freddy? Just thinking

6:25 pm
DT: Aruban attorney: I doubt that it is a coincidence this guy was arrested at the same time and lived near Joran.

6:31 pm
NativeLingo: DT, it wasn't a coincidence...

6:32 pm
nancy drew: They said it on Abrams...the part about Freddy knowing about the disposal of the body...

6:38 pm
Hat: Nancy, You mean Paulus recruited Freddy for the clean? Shades of Fagin.**

6:49 pm
sunmoonstars: Abrams Friday
Talking to Aruban attorney

Abrams: : What do you make of the arrest of this friend

Attorney: I agree with you that it is not coincidential. If you talk about separate charge, one of the separate charge is disposal of a body. Which is a separate crime. If this person who is a friend of Joran, I think the prosecutionin the back of their mind want to crack him to see if he had something to do with the disposal of a body.

10:28 pm
crazybabyborg: Anyone know what the nature of the alibi was that Freddy supplied for Joran?

10:30 pm
writergal: I think Freddie said he slept over at Joran's house on the relevant night

10:30 pm
DT: From what I understand, he said he stayed at Joran's apartment that night, which is something he and other friends often do. He claimed Joran got home at a certain time, and that he said he had met an American girl, but that nothing sexual had taken place.

**Fagin is a fictional character who appears in the Charles Dickens novel Oliver Twist. Fagin is the leader of a group of children whom he teaches to make their livings by pickpocketing and other criminal activities in exchange for a roof over their heads. He is said by another character, Monks, to have already made criminals out of "scores" of children who grow up to live- or die- committing the same crimes as adults.  In the second chapter of his appearance, it is shown- albeit when talking to himself- that he cares less about those children who are eventually hanged for their crimes and more about the fact that they do not "peach" on him and the other children.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fagin

aug 1-3, 2005
karen: maxito: ran across this: Special Thanks :: :: The ones that helped / or still helping me one way or another with this project :: Mom and Dad, who tolerate the mess in the garage ... Maxito Arendsz @ Aruba Speed Shop ... http://boostunit.com/home.php

which took me to: http://www.arubaspeedshop.com/shop.html

Peeps: I am the owner of Boost Unit website and the webmaster of the speedshop. I don't know what your deal is with us or anything. We don't have nor want anything to do with some stupid teens, americans, dutch, surinam or any nationality whatsoever involved with this annoying case. We don't know that teen Joran nor his 3 chocolate factory buddies. They are not of our age bracket. We are some motorsports fans and that's all there is to it.

I request you to put your detective wannabee skills into something more productive. I am just helping you out here that you'll heading towards a dead end. Just trying to save you some time. Regards to everyone

omega: Hiya, Peeps! Welcome to the Scared Monkeys, Natalee Holloway THEORY & SPECULATION FORUM. I've often wondered why so few webmasters ever seem to notice when dozens of hits unexpected come to their websites from unexpected places. Hope you enjoy your visit here, I suppose you're right and that "The Butler Did It!!" will soon be proven. Can you please tell me to whom you refer when you wrote, "...Joran and his three chocolate factory buddies." Who are these 3 individuals? Thanks so much.

Peeps: knew about this site from the newspapers, plus its name is pretty "catchy". I got my monthly referrals report today (Aug 1) and what do I see? More than 50 referrals from the famous NH connected "scared monkeys". The purpose of this particular speculation forum is all good. I just don't want our names stickied on the internet,especially something that we have no part in. This is not the first time that somebody wants to connect us with the fatass dutchy. I did a typo, I meant 2 chocolate buddies.

karen: hi, peeps! no disrespect intended! just posting the trail that led to maxito, as we've been told he is lorenzo's, aka locoman's, alibi. could you share a little re lorenzo, just so we have everyone straight? maybe you can help us, & we can help you? thx!

Peeps Maxito is one of my best friends. We go everywhere together. This rumor also spread on the street. Frankly we were pretty scared about this false accusations. Long story short, the detectives already know about this and have straightened out this false rumor. He doesn't know this guy Lorenzo. Locoman came once with his mom to the shop to get some quotations for parts for his Quad racer. that's it. We don't know locoman nor his following. Also we don't want to know anything about him. We stick to our motto " minding our own business"

omega: Thanks for the clarification, Peeps. I take it that, on Aruba, that perhaps Joran doesn't really have a large number of friends, that maybe the social/personals websites are exagerrating the popularity of, as you state, the fatass dutchy & his two chocolate factory buddies. Say, OUR BlogMaster, Red, is on your island, he's there with Texas Equusearch -- why dontcha track him down at the landfill, and have him interview ya?

Ms DarthVada: I thought he meant 3, meaning, deepak, satish and freddy. haha

karen: thank you, peeps! just to be sure..we are talking about the maxito arendsz, who is in his 20's? i know there is also a max arends, could that be the one they meant? i REALLY appreciate you taking the time to answer.

Peeps: He's 26. The same as me. He's the same person. Maxito = Little Max in papiamento. A childhood name that got stuck till now. I just notified one of the detectives again about this piece, just in case some false accusations come up. Just taking precautions. If there are more questions I can ask them as far as I can. You can put a separate thread or something or email.

Peeps: I wouldn't know if Joran has a lot of friends or not. You have to take personal sites like Tickle, Hi5, Myspace with a tiny grain of salt. Everyone on that site are the best friends, the kindest people, the best personalities, the biggest pimps, the sharpest girls, a whole lotta hoopla. It's a big game of distraction and illusions.

new girl: Peeps, because you have been so kind in responding to questions here, I have deleted the post I had made that included Karen's links to your site. I have left up only 1 name - the Carib crew out of Florida.

Peeps: Thank you newgirl, I appreciate the cooperation. There's a lot to read on this site, I am busy doing that.

karen: hey peeps! do you know if locoman is known to hang out at casinos? also, is it true his dad committed suicide a coupla yrs ago?

Peeps: His dad owned the Volkswagen dealership here. He killed himself a couple of years ago, that's correct. The dealership is still there, but I don't know if they still have it or whatnot. locoman has a lot of money, but rumors have it that he's misusing the money. I think he doesn't even has to work for the rest of his life. locoman has 2 houses, and i got to know that he use(d) to throw some heavy parties at his homes. That's how much I know. I have no clue if he frequents the casinos / hotels.

new girl: Peeps, is Lorenzo a different guy than locoman? Up until now, everyone said that Lorenzo was the son of the VW businessman who committed suicide and who has two houses and inherited $$.

Peeps: I thought Lorenzo = locoman from previous post. Excuse me if I had understood wrong. So basically it's just old news to you guys.

jozee: I thought Lorenzo and locoman were two different people. Lorenzo is someone who we don't have a pic of, although several people think it's the guy with the blonde dredlocks. Locoman is a dark island-looking person? Am I wrong? I'd like to know who is Alexxx the ax guy! And why does he carry around an ax?

Peeps: Ok. Locoman, no clue who he is. Lorenzo, saw him once. He's a tall Dutch looking fellow. You guys know more about him than me I see. You only need a pic of him.

I hear Shango: If Peeps is from aruba, and goes "everywhere" with Maxito...perhaps Peeps will tell us how the party was that night.

Peeps: We don't go to tourist places. As a matter of fact we haven't been to Carlos and Charlies this year even. We are over that type of party stage. You're beginning to sound like the dumb blonde Nancy Disgrace, simma downa.

I hear Shango: I didn't ask if you went to tourist place..I asked about the party...and before you call me dumb....you should think twice...I have just proven myself smarter than the entire LE....and many others in Aruba.

Peeps: Ok, Another smart comment in there but whatever floats your party boat is fine with me. Dunno what party, like all other questions you've asked me: Not Applicable. Another FYI, the Mansurs are one of the wealthiest families on the island, and also with many business related stories as you will find out sooner or later in your quest. Go fetch.

Peeps: Grasshopper sees the tip of the Iceberg and thinks deeply........" I think that's the whole Iceberg". Ok, enough busting I hear shango's balls. I really don't think the Mansur will connect you to NH case. They have extensive shady practices but I don't foresee any connection. Karen, you see what I mean. I am a native. I know as many other islanders about the M's. Alot of which are not on the web. Now I get an internet worm who just found last week what Aruba is, telling me he/she has everything. We are laughing so hard at this that we are having headaches.

karen: i hear ya, peeps, i get the headaches, too! won't you pleez tell us some lorenzo stories??
 
rockyroads: oh magic crystal ball- i see some arrests

I hear Shango: Peeps...I see the whole iceberg...better run....unless you are a VERY good swimmer...

Peeps: I hear Shango, My applogies to you for being rude. Sometimes it's needed to get the point across, and it's my favourite tool. No hard feelings.

rockyroads: hey peeps, are you a poker player? at the casinos much? i'm sorry to ask so many questions man i am just happy to talk to someone from the real island

Peeps: Yes I am a poker player. We play at home pretty much. We try to get out of the casinos as much as possible. There are quite a few stories about locals losing tons of money in casinos. From time to time we go casino sight seeing if you will call it and also the $50- $100.000 big Bingos at La Cabana and Renaissance Casino. Any more questions feel free, I try to answer them. As for the smart a$$ comments, I'll try to give them the stick.

2 days later, discussion begins re TES/turtle eggs:

Peeps: These turtles are endangered worldwide, and have been laying eggs at the eagle beach more than anyone can remember. From the eggs less than 1% will be able to be a grown up turtle. Do you see why your comparisson to a couple of dogs on the street make you look as dumb as a crumbled brick now. Get your a$$ over here and look instead of cooking your fat asses on that computer screen, looking at pix the whole day and making childlike judgements. I am done venting.

rockyroads: Peeps, get your fat a$$ out and help find Natalee and then we will go home!! your turtle eggs do not compare to a human beings life. by the way it is your own dutch government that gave them permission to search there and let them come back to the island. sorry if i am privledged and i can sit on my fat a$$ all day on the computer thats way i live in america

Peeps: LOL. I don't have any responsibility in that, thank you. Swing and a miss.

rockyroads: its ok if i swing and miss because the big hit is going to be to the islands pocket book

Dallas Also: Peeps, we are only speculating because we can't get straight answers from your citizenry. Someone tells us they saw a body in the landfill. We dig up the landfill. No body. We hear lighthouse. We go look around the lighthouse. We hear Holiday Inn. We go look. We hear Fisherman's Huts. We drain a pond. We look. We chase our tails. Has Natalee been seen on your island since the night of her disappearance? If she went to a party, who else saw her?

Peeps: Dallas, perfectly understood. I understand the tail chasing, but that's what you do if you want to get things solved, you look at everything, the minute they come before you. It's not like in the movies, or CSI Miami, where everything goes perfectly in sequence. I mean these detectives are not like they are un-trained. They frequently go to courses in Europe and even the FBI. Plus they have support from the FBI team. Your right that lots of mistakes were made by lack of training and knowledge of procedures., but we've got to strive forward. I was also one of the thousands who burned my butt in the son, searching the beaches for NH. Losing my precious weekend time with my family and go searching for this girl.

Oxygenated Lady: Peeps - why are you so angry??

Peeps: Some people on this forum are sooooooooooo friggin Ignorant, it's unbelievable. It's like they don't know anything around the world. They have no clue about why certain things go the way they go over here and don't want to understand either. That's the main problem on this forum. Guys that's the way we do it over here. It's a different law system, understand it. Don't rebel against, accept it. I wonder if it's this type of arrogance and ignorance that so hated about some americans in the world. Expand your mind with real things instead of reading Shango BS that goes nowhere.

new girl: I understand your frustration, Peeps. But our frustration isn't much different than yours. We know we have no clue why things have gone the way they have over there. We are begging to understand.
 
eleye: let me tell you why...because a criminal element is present and puts big money into their economy...exposing that means ruining that island and that's why the aruban people are mad, scared or indifferent. this case exposes the belly of the beast and they are getting nervous that an island that runs on tourism and crime, will crumble.

Peeps: You are 15 years late. You know who the belly were?
Marlboro Company
Citi Bank
ABN AMRO Bank
Hotel Chains.
American / European bank
Mr. Pablo Escobar.

There were even some White Citations with bald eagle encriptions on them. Who can that be. Everybody gained from the small washing machine with white beaches. There is a reason why I tell you why there won't be any embargoes or economic restrictions.

I hear Shango: IMO the main trade that brings money to that island wouldn't be subject to sanctions or embargos....cause its illegal stuff and it is still there in full force.

I hear Shango: I try to expand my mind....but no one in Aruba will open up and tell us anything of use relative to this case....since you are so open and knowledgeable about the wildlife and other stuff there, would you be willing to give Beth a tour of the island? You know, show her where the underground begins? Show her the brothels and drug houses and where the private parties are held....show her where Natalee was REALLY taken that night....

Peeps: Willing to help, sure. But not with these unbased nonsense such as these. It's my nature to ignore these stupidities. No offense. Instead of playing in the casino with a baseball hat every night, she could have gone to the brothels. and see for herself. Or if she went, she can tell you what she saw. Private parties, well newsflash, they are private.

I hear Shango: Peeps....I will let Beth know you are on board for a tour... as for Beth at the casino....I assume you have been there and seen her every night? Did you ever stop to think that she may be in the casino doing surveillance of her own? I am sorry if you aren't invited to the parties...I didn't mean to offend.

Dallas Also: Peeps, was Natalee wearing a baseball cap when she was in the casinos each night? You know, someone has the opportunity to earn $100,000 to $1,000,000. And be a national hero to Aruba, I would predict.
 
Oxygenated Lady: Peeps, You are there...can you HELP us? Tell us about the baseball cap reference, please.

Peeps: I was thinking about the cameras in the casinos a few days back. Another reason why we have to thank the dutch legal system is that no info can be given to the public. The answer has to lie on the cameras. I know they have a 2 week history on those recorders. I also know that every corner gets surveilled by those cameras. I think that's what the FBI wants to go after now. They want to sift through evidence, documents. I have no problem with that. The FBI has more experience. The Aruban police should have made and agreement with the FBI from day one, instead of being that proud.

eleye: so, you think the fbi hasn't seen those yet? you think "that" is what the fbi wants to go after....that meaning the tapes? or that meaning the people on them?

Dallas Also: I stand by my question. How did Peeps know about her wearing, or not wearing, a baseball hat? Is he exaggerating when he says "every night"? Bottom line is: is Peeps in a position where he is able to observe things? In the mighty name of Jesus, will someone have the courage in Aruba to come forward?

new girl: Peeps, who do YOU think we should be focusing on here?

Peeps: She couldn't have been kidnapped. Not by plane. Not by boat. There are 2 surface radars, the Dutch marine coast guard. And nobody can leave without Customs clearance. Kidnapped in Aruba? That could be a posibility but why. She wanted to get free from her parents. Well by judging her last entry into her yearbook. That can also be a possibility. I firmly believe that she's been dumped into the sea on the west coast. Let her drift into the ocean. She would have been eaten by barracudas and other fishes, crabs in no time. Possibiliy to recover bones now, nil. I really want to see some change in sea currents caused by tropical storms, so that the sea can flush something back on shore. Then we would have something. This f***ing Joran is sly, and has a rarely seen strong character. There is a dutch team who specialize in interviewing suspects now with him. As I understand they are drilling him, and also filming him in order to look for any anormalities. The only way out I see, is to crack him. But without some evidence SOON it's difficult.

Dallas Also: Peeps, he turns 18 in just 3 more days. There is some thought that he can then be interrogated "as an adult". Surely the Aruban people can see that this kid is the one bringing problems on all of them.

Peeps: I would have to hit the books about that tomorrow. PVDS will also try all his tricks to prevent that. I'll have to see the possibilities. It would be better for all of us if he can be considered as an adult. More perks for the interviewers.

Peeps: I certainly got punched really good by you crazy monkeys tonight. Pleasant day tomorrow. Godspeed.

there were four posts the following day/aug 4,
mainly re TJ Ward's work permit.
then no more posts until Aug 25
when we were again discussing Lorenzo
(who Peeps claimed not to know)
& lack of documantation re the alleged search of LvR's properties

august 25, 2005
finngirl11: I really/really wonder about the circle of friends. Diario is poring over the club/radio photo galleries. Van Zandt said he knew last week that girls of many nationalitites from multiple countries had begun coming forward re unfavorable encounters w/ JvdS, whose face is publicized worldwide. Nearly 2 months into the investigation it leaks out that some guy spent that night at JvdS' apt; an alleged local posts that it was Max, Max is part of Lorenzo's alibi. Perhaps LvR & friends have good reason to keep LvR's face from the public eye, perhaps wouldn't be good for girls to recognize him from a previous encounter. Then again, peeps said Max was one of his good friends & they have nothing to do w/ JvdS/K2 at any time, ever.
 
Another thing: when we question the intertwining family trees/friendships re gov't reps, attys, reporters, etc we're told it's a small island, no big deal that all these people are related or know each other. But when it comes to this group of kids/young men all of a sudden people don't know each other. Sooooo many locals have posted that LvR's property/vehicle/boat were searched & we have ZERO proof of that. Nah, this gives off a very unpleasant odor.

finngirl11 quotes arubagirl: They have questioned friends, such as Max Arendsz and Lorenzo van Rijn, and I believe one other guy was questioned for sure, as I believe a few girlfriends. DIARIO wants those pictures

finngirl11 quotes sandrak: Max was in de Cop shop the same day SteveO was taken in for his extended Vacation ... Max was the over night Vistor @ joran's pad on night of Joran's C& C night on the Town..

Peeps: Alright guys, I just found out a little detail: There are 2 Max's on the island. But....the difference lies in the last name: Max Arends - @20 years old. And associated with Joran.Max Arendsz - 26 years old. Owner of the Speed Shop and has no clue who Joran and his posse is. Somehow, the names got mixed up and misleading info spread like wild fire. Anyhow, back on topic.

Peeps: From my uber reliable source, the local detectives searched his house twice already, but what to do if you can't find anything.
 
The police know about the parties, etc etc. And they also agree that LVR is a little kwak kwak in the head.

Anyhow, I got this pic from a source of mine, which I think will be the only pic you'll be able to find of him.

This is from his van, and guess who's driving.

So there, I helped you guys a little. I hope I don't get shafted like many helpful Arubians have been misused / abused in the past by los americanos.
 
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/7466/piwannabee6fq.jpg

Don't ask me for more.
Don't ask me for higher resolution.
Don't ask me for bigger pictures.
I still stand by my opinion that you guys are losing your time with this fellow.
See you next time

jozee: Peeps, Thank you for posting the photo. Wild paint job!  :shock:  Did he do it himself or is there a local artist that does that work?

Ms DarthVada: Some other posts I saved regarding why we keep going to does LVR have something to do with this. I don't know if they are fact or not.

June 26th, 2005 at 4:57 pm Island Hopper says:
I’ve heard 2 stories on Lorenzo Van Rijn. I read that he’s allegedly JVDS half-brother by an affair PVDS had w/another woman and I also heard that he may be the guy with the blue van that the blogs are talking about who went crazy when his father committed suicide a few years ago. Both may be false. I read these on Riehlworldview, but they reference Scared Monkey’s as where they info came from. I think I also saw something about it on Amy Kappel’s blog. If you google the name, it takes you to Dan Riehl’s blog.

June 26th, 2005 at 5:06 pm Maya99 Says:
Lorenzo VanRijn owns the blue van, I believe. His brother is Maxito (I think). They have been mentioned in the past as witnesses/suspects if memory serves. As you can see, I’m fuzzy on these guys, but they come up occasionally.

Posted by: claire | June 19, 2005 03:28 PM
"Rumors have it that...Van Rijn's mother had an affair with Paul Van Der Sloot (before he was married to his current wife) and the result was Lorenzo Van Rijn (23). - no I'm not making this up. Lorenzo is close friends with Joran (his half brother?) Natalee was being kept at Van Rijn's house and is still alive. Police found some of Natalee's belongings at Van Rijn's house, but she has been moved to another house.." Found on another site.

Peeps: No disrespect darth, but all those sentences belong in the trashcan. Look in the posts in the 1st page and you'll get the answers. That will automatically rule out other redundancies.

Dan in Tx: MY Aruban contact tells me LVR's mom's house in Savatena was NOT searched along with the other house and his boat and car, and furthermore has not been searched even to this day. This person tells me polis want very badly to search the Savatena 'ranch house' that I believe belongs to his mom but aren't allowed near it as it is 'not in the scope of the search'. Can you verify or refute this please?

Peeps: That's right Dan. Other note: That's the best I can provide you guys. Use your photoshop skills to better the pic.

gotta love sandraK: when she realized that she'd said too much ...
which was quite often, LOL ...
she'd pretend not to understand the conversation

sandraK: Lorenzo's Dad had a VW   Dealership.. He is dead.sadly..He runs with. Max Arendsz &  Orlando Bello  .From the Aruba Speed Stop...A Kinda Strange Dude.. but harmless...  SM's think he has something to do with this.. Cops Been all over him.. He's not involved...

MisGivings: Is this the 'rave' guy? And, wasn't some of Natalee's clothing found in his basement?

sandraK: No clothes were found...!! Nothing

jozee: SandraK, So Lorenzo runs with the guys from the Speed Shop?? I thought Peeps said he only met him once??

sandraK: and ???

jozee: ...and back at ya...if he met him once how does he run with them?

sandraK: I didn't know Peeps was Max Arendsz....I'm Sorry..  :oops:  :oops:

jozee: SandraK, I don't believe he is Max...if you are to believe what he says they are best friends...just do a search on Peeps posts and you can see for yourself. He came here after a bunch of Monkeys hit on the speed shop during research. I don't know if he posts anymore....

sandraK: WE  PM  :wink:

sept 28, 2005

discussion began re the cab driver's story
that 2 MB boys were upset re NH being infatuated
w/ a local guy earlier in the week;
posters were wondering who this local was
and of course Lorenzo came up:

mishy: I read somewhere that Lorenzo's mom and PVDS were possibly seeing each other...and that she's blonde and from a distance looks like Beth

bondia: Lorenzo is 26, the v/d Sloots arrived on Aruba when LR was nearly 10 years old. I don't remember Internet on Aruba 26 years ago, much less 15 years ago, so it couldn't have been a cyber encounter either?

candygirl: Bondia........I don't remember the poster's name, but someone said awhile back that L mother followed Paul to aruba. If L is 27 and paul 50, he's certainly old enough to be his dad.......? Could he have had a relationship with this woman prior to aruba?????? Ya know ya still got wonder why L was brought in for questioning? I'm NOT buying into the "b/c he throws rave parties"

finngirl11: AG posted in June that Lorenzo was 23, was very close to Joran. Flying back/forth to Holland/Aruba seems easy enough, we've seen that.

elaine: Not only that, but Lorenzo wasn't born in Aruba he was born in Holland, and Paulus comes from Holland, so it is very possible

mishy: For real? AG said Joran and Lorenzo were close friends??????

finngirl11: Posted somewhere between June 13-22 I believe

finngirl11:
Sat Jun 18, 2005 5:45 pm
AG: aia, van Rijn is the son of the late owner of the Volkswagen dealership. He is very close to van der Sloot, and he has been taken in for questioning.

Sat Jun 18, 2005 5:49 pm
americaninaruba: they took him again??!!! IM sorry I know who he is but I was lost..I didnt know they have him again....I understood they interrogated him & released him later......wow ok I know who this guy is if you check my posts. I "described" him!

Sat Jun 18, 2005 5:50 pm
AG: This is all hearsay, so my apologies if it's not true:
van Rijn is 23, going on 24. He's very close to van der Sloot, and his father hanged himself after a life filled with drugs. I've HEARD that the son also does drugs, don't know it. Have also HEARD that he walks armed, but don't know for sure.

I've HEARD he lives at Jaraweg, but before he lived on the Savaneta main road.

bondia: I am pretty sure that Lorenzo was born on Aruba. If you guys could sent me some monkey cents (55c) to be exact, I will go to the census and find out

arubagirl: No, he isn't. Born in The Netherlands. You know where I work.

gutfeeling: Fantastic entrance Aruba Girl. Nice to see you.

dragonfly: I am in NO WAY saying this is the truth, but early on when it was speculated that PVDS was Lorenzo's dad, someone researched where PVDS was from in Holland, family land and so on, court cases involving some of his family's land, things like that. They also researched Lorenzo's last name and found that some by that name lived in the same area as PVDS' family in Holland. It was said that Lorenzo's mom met her husband there and then went to Aruba. So the possibility was brought up that PVDS could still be his father from Holland before his mother married this other man. PURE speculation....

klaasend: What I'd like to know is why is everyone in Aruba protecting Lorenzo? Is it because they're affraid of him?

candygirl: just maybe he has something to hold over on everyone......I smell blackmail.......

lnichols: The whole thing stinks to high heavens......

klaasend: He and Max were brought in for questioning early in the case. Max is now going to school in Florida and we can never get any information on Lorenzo. We've been told that his place was searched and he's been cleared.....but we've been told alot of things. I still feel as though he is somehow connected to this case.

finngirl11: Different Max. Max Arends who goes to school in FL is 20. Max "Maxito" Arendsz is 26, owns Speed Shop.
 
Best friend Peeps is webmaster of Speed Shop website, read monthly report, saw all the hits from SM, came to tell us:
 
Maxito is one of my best friends. We go everywhere together. This rumor also spread on the street. He doesn't know this guy Lorenzo. Locoman came once with his mom to the shop to get some quotations for parts for his Quad racer. that's it. We don't know locoman nor his following. Also we don't want to know anything about him. We stick to our motto " minding our own business."

This is the guy who posted the photo of Lorenzo/the van in Theory/Speculation. The photo he got from a "source."

klaasend: I realize there are 2 Max's. Are you telling me that the Max they brought in is the 26yr old??

finngirl11: This is what we've heard, also that he is part of Lorenzo's alibi for the night in question. Which is in direct opposition to "we don't know locoman or his following and we don't want to know." "We stick to the motto minding our own business" ... sounds like the Code of Silence.

klaasend: Well, I could be wrong but it was my understanding it was the younger Max that was brought in for questioning.

gutfeeling: Me too, klaasend, FWIW

finngirl11: speaking just for myself, I've been wrong about a lot of things I thought I understood about this investigation

klaasend: Arubagirl - do you know which Max was brought in for questioning in June?

Thread Locked

klaasend: Arubagirl - brought this over from the other thread in case you missed it. Do you know which Max they brought in for questioning around the same time as Lorenzo? Was it the 26yr old or the 20yr old? TIA

arubagirl: Klaassend, the database that I have access to has only one Max Arends that is the age of Joran.

klaasend: Thanks AG. There are 2, the names are spelled slightly different. One of them hangs out at the speed shop and the other one is in college in Florida now.

arubagirl: Klaassend, I searched last name: All last names starting with Arend and first names starting with Max

finngirl11:
Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:35 pm
AG: They have questioned friends, such as Max Arendsz and Lorenzo van Rijn, and I believe one other guy was questioned for sure, as I believe a few girlfriends. DIARIO wants those pictures.

finngirl:
Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:34 pm
arubagirl: I know that right now I'm being an information tease, but it's just ridiculous that I'm afraid that I'm going to be howled out of the message board. Deep sigh. Here goes:

According to neighbours of van Rijn's mom, this lady had an affair with v/d Sloot before he was married to his current wife, and the result was Lorenzo van Rijn. Natalee was held at Lorenzo's house (who lives alone), since he has a basement (not many houses here have a basement). Natalee has been moved from house to house belonging to those that are in the plan (don't know what plan that is). They are afraid to kill her what with everybody focusing on the case.
 
Look, I KNOW. I KNOW. It's sounds to utterly fantastic and ridiculous. Please don't kill me, troll me, flame me. Not for this. I WANT it to be true, that she is still alive.

sb: You mean that on the strength of that ONE POST about Lorenzo, there was developed the manic, obsessive fixation on him that a lot of the posters here had for a while?  Lorenzo was the single BIGGEST Red Herring in this WHOLE case! All over ONE obscure post!

finngirl11:
Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:00 pm
NativeLingo: This "Lorenzo" kid's name was mentioned from the very beginning..In fact it is the first name I heard when this whole thing started....
My guess is that he must have been involved with her sometime during her trip, and that they are now bringing in EVERYBODY that had come in contact with her.... from what I hear, "lorenzo" is ONE troublemaker......

Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:08 pm
NativeLingo: But from the very beginning "the son of an ex Vwagen dealer" was somehow involved..... He was the first one mentioned....

Sat Jun 18, 2005 11:49 pm
NativeLingo: Like I posted yesterday, this guy "Lorenzo" was the first person that I heard that was related to the case from the very beginning.... He's a little psycho from what I hear....

Hi Finn...

As far as I can find Freddy showed up on the scene when he was arrested in August. Strange after being questioned all those times.

I think I read at RWV that Max Arends slept over around August 11th.

We posted about Freddy Arends on the Shango thread the day before yesterday and discussed a movie/video place owned by a Frederick Arends, which was at the same address that had been posted for Freddy Zedan’s apartment.

Who said the alibi played for the Sloots?

The other car?

The famous pic!  Whose Hand?

You get my drift…LOL

I read the 11th, IIRC and noticed it was strange, will check back on. I took notice of the date, and checked the Dr Phil log.

Will go back as I am interested as to who posted it and why it was mentioned.

Will check and see if I found anything.

If Freddy is Freddy Arambatzis then he is Dutch. Well if the info on the mother is correct. Lillian Regina Arambatzis Rodriguez Albert...I have a post back from 2005 that the poster checked the Chamber registry and said she was Dutch.

Some posters checked again for me a few weeks back and she is no longer on the Registry.

Finn...I don't know how I didn't put this together the first time, unless I am wrong on the date of 8/11...a house guest and a maid?

Name: Margaritha Dijkhoff (van der Sloot maid) (third statement)
Date: 11 August 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator Dennis Jacobs /Eric Soemers
Description: witness statement

Finn...nothing to do with this post, but in reference to Freddy's Mom...Lillian Regina Arambatzis Rodriguez Albert...Klaas has posted that Freddy does have a Rodriguez stepsister.  Only posting to show that Lillian could be Freddy's mom and then half Dutch...sorry if I confuse on this.

thought that name seemed familiar ... you've got a good memory!

crs on June 16th, 2005 9:29 am
Cancon - How can you say that anything that has NH’s hair on it and is Joran’s belongings that would sink Joran, he has admitted to spending three days with this girl and by other accounts has made out with her. It is not like he said he did not know her. Blood is a different story but I think she was suffocated so there would be no blood.

crs on June 16th, 2005 9:34 am
Cas- My theory is this body was clumsily hidden originally and later permanently dumped with daddy’s help. I have decided the only hope of finding NH was lost in the first couple of days.

crs on June 16th, 2005 9:42 am
I think the friend’s thought at the time this was a good kid, Joran I mean. A “friend” was on O’Reilly last night and he said Joran seemed like a nice guy. Hence they did not think twice when she caught a ride with them. As far them not noticing she did not return to the hotel, think about it, it is their last night in Aruba, they are partying and probably just thought she was with another group of friends. I do not think any of that to be odd. As far as boys keeping quiet, I think they are cracking a little and that is why daddy needs to get in that jail and tell them to chill out and this will be over in a 120 days. These kids will never be officailly charged due to lack of evidence.

crs on June 16th, 2005 9:47 am
CAS - Agree with everything you said, I tend to think she was not beaten, I think she was moderately tipsy and this kid just suffocated her he is 6′5 probalby 200 pounds, she is 5′ maybe 110. One thing I have wondered, is what if he suffocated her but she passes out orignally, he panicks, thinks she is dead, can’t get a pulse because she has been drinking so it is very faint, him and the brothers clumsily bury her alive and that is when she dies, I know this is an outrageous theory but who knows.

Cas on June 16th, 2005 9:48 am
CRS: I thought the same thing, they thought she was dead but she wasn’t.

if they find the girl they will see that shit

FP chatter the night before SGC's early morning arrest/june 17

TLC on June 16th, 2005 4:49 pm
Just heard on local radio, they arrested some one else. This person appearantly was found in the town of Savaneta.

pktbk on June 16th, 2005 4:50 pm
tlc-no way!!

claire on June 16th, 2005 4:50 pm
arubagirl is on misfitting

Mecha-Godzilla on June 16th, 2005 4:53 pm
She left on her own volition

marie from maine on June 16th, 2005 4:54 pm
please - the scoop on the new arrest is it smoke and mirrors or legit?

crs on June 16th, 2005 4:55 pm
I just looked at CNN and MSNBC and see nothing of another arrest.

TLC on June 16th, 2005 4:55 pm
pktbk yes way. I’m waiting to hear more updates. Even us locals here were wondering if he and NH were dropped off at the beach and the other 2 clowns “went home”, if stuff went south, would he not call some one for help????

Jake on June 16th, 2005 4:56 pm
Has anyone else heard about another arrest in the NH case?

crs on June 16th, 2005 5:02 pm
I don’t think anyone else has been arrested or it is the best kept secret in the world right now.

Lucy on June 16th, 2005 5:25 pm
crs: With regards to another arrest, last Saturday the 11th, the news coverage reported a fourth arrest, but there has not been another mention of this.

Also, the group was supposed to have stopped at another bar before taking off.

Checkme on June 16th, 2005 5:30 pm
He would have a one hour walk, after he disposed of the body? I think the Kalpoes continued NH, hurt her, called in help (from a fourth person (savaneta!!!)). There is another evil soul involved and it is not the van der Sloot’s.

crs on June 16th, 2005 5:32 pm
Checkme - Any facts to back up or just your own, personal theory?

Checkme on June 16th, 2005 5:41 pm
There was a pic online showing a house in Savaneta, where Karin Jansen was at the door, and the guy who lives there is a known drug dealer. (He drives around in a souped-up grafiti truck (after he crashed his brand new audi TT 2 years ago). In the same scene as the Kalpoes. Where did they get the money to drive that grey car?) I hear a persistent mention of this fourth person on the local radio. Dealing drugs requires a network ring. Sources (Savaneta), distributions (Kalpoes) and fronts (van der Sloot, with or without his knowing).

crs on June 16th, 2005 5:43 pm
Checkme since you are there please provide your complete theory as to what happened.

Jane on June 16th, 2005 7:22 pm
I just read a bullitin that vd Sloot has change his story and now agrees with the brothers that they dropped he and Natalee off at the Marriot.

It is suggested that this is a result of the search of his home yesterday.

It will be interesting to hear his version now of the rest of the evening.

livesatthebeach on June 16th, 2005 7:39 pm
jane - where did you see/read/hear that bulletin?

Jane on June 16th, 2005 7:47 pm
Hello lives
MSNBC.com

New Creature on June 16th, 2005 11:57 pm
I read from someone on the Riehlworldview.com that a report on Aruban radio said the authorities had located that the 6:30 a.m. call on the cell phone was from the east side of the island. And there was a report that a house was searched (a house on the eastside). This poster said they heard the report.

mora68 on June 17th, 2005 12:45 am
New Creature…What is this cell phone call you are talking about?

New Creature on June 17th, 2005 12:53 am
I’ve been following the blogs on this site, as well as on http://www.riehlworldview.com, and one of the local arubian posters on the latter site stated he/or she heard a report on arubian radio stating the location of the cell phone calls had been pinpointed. There was a 6:30 a.m. cell call from the eastside of the island the following morning of Natalees disapearance. Possibly, in my mind, showing the last known location of natalee??? Maybe Joron getting rid of a body or something and making a call from that location. I tried to get someone who knows more than me to comment on the post and its implications, but no one did. I know nothing regarding the integrity of the poster. So….still rumor, or unconfirmed, or whatever you call it.

New Creature on June 17th, 2005 12:56 am
Oh, sorry….the cell phone I’m referring to is implied to be Joran’s.

Checkme on June 17th, 2005 9:17 am
Savaneta is on the east side of Aruba. This morning’s local newpaper reports a person being detained at Savaneta. I have seen pics of this person’s house in Savaneta on the net, on the day they arrested the three.

SGC arrested in Santa Cruz/not to be confused w/ Saveneta

(http://www.aruba.com/images/regiomap.jpg)
interactive map at link

http://www.aruba.com/about/regionalmap.php

blood/not blood ... not blood/saliva ... in trunk of car  :shock:

arrest of 4th/6th suspect on the 11th ... not counting/counting SGs

previous day PM promised resolution w/in 24 hours ... whassup w/ that?
is that like sim saying "I only report developments ahead of time" ... ???

Larry on June 12th, 2005 4:06 pm
Unless I am mistaken, HI security cameras cover the parking lot as well and the hallways, since many thefts involve the removal of luggage and other valuables from cars. So, what does that tell you? Natalee never got back to the Holiday Inn. It’s probably just that simple.

arubagirl on June 12th, 2005 4:07 pm
Larry, I’ve heard the cameras weren’t working. Don’t know how reliable this is or not.

ScaredBlackGuy on June 12th, 2005 4:12 pm
arubagirl, You are helping disinformation. The tapes of the parking lots were “reviewed” which means a camera had to function in order to record images on tapes.

bracgirl on June 12th, 2005 4:13 pm
Or perhaps the locals are creating rumors to cause conflicting stories and take the heat off the 3 guys?

SA on June 12th, 2005 4:13 pm
1) I heard that one camera wasn’t working, and had stopped working that week, but I don’t know if it’s true.
2) The FBI spokesman said on Fox News that the blood turned out to be unrelated to the case. Could be wrong but I am satisfied.
3) I wish we were hearing more about the date-rape-drug angle- they talked a lot about it the first day but nothing lately.

Rob on June 12th, 2005 4:13 pm
tapes are easily eraseable….

John on June 12th, 2005 4:14 pm
Scared………In defense of Arubagirl, it’s conceivable that when the tapes were “reviewed”, they discovered that they were “blank” due to some malfunction…….

arubagirl on June 12th, 2005 4:16 pm
Quick to judge, eh, scared?

americaninaruba on June 12th, 2005 4:17 pm
well it is being said here that their are tapes but the dates are mixed up and their not sure which ones were for that night…but again all rumors…who knows what is true or not at this moment beucase their not leaking any offical information….imagine even the stetement that CNN published was retractd because it was false…The press is the most unreliable source in my opinion…they help with lots of things yes…but most of the times they exagerate even make up stuf f jsut to sell

Cathy on June 12th, 2005 4:18 pm
When reports come first through a friend of a friend of mine I switch on the tv and check online. I read ABC News and this blog, but I bought the news paper just to check what they were saying.

I dont consider any sources reliable at the moment not entirely because liek all of you have experienced things were changed. the Police released only a few statements. I rather go by those, since they are lawfully obligated to release only facts, not rumors. So far all we know released by them is that the 3 witnesses were suspected since the beginning, strategically let free to monitor their behavior. Since they voluntarily came forward to “help” they were treated as such, witnesses. Later, they picked up the two “suspects” the guards. They just happened to be the only two male guards that fit the description, that could have been in the vicinity. Later as the alibi’s were determined for one, and still no confession, the trio was yielding evidence against itself. thus leading to their arrest, confiscation of pc’s and other electronic possesions as well as the car. If they are still holding all five is because something else is brewing under the group. They may also be held because they know more about natalee than they claim. Be it that they are responsible or just know about her whereabouts. This we still can’t know untill the police releases all the details after this week. There was a report of a 6th person involved. Many things could be brewing. Let’s say there are more guys involved, making headliners with it will only lead to commotion.

Undisclosed makes it easier for the police to monitor and take action. Plus there may be enough reason to proceed with caution in relation to all these “witnesses” may say. They already made unreliable statements.

SA on June 12th, 2005 4:18 pm
Before I went out last night they had announced that they no longer consider this a homicide and that the case would be wrapped up in 24 hours. Is that still the case?

ScaredBlackGuy on June 12th, 2005 4:18 pm
Rob, Chances are since this is HI the camera system was at least a CCTV system, a commercial system sold by TYCO/ADT or the likes. These systems have time-stamping and a number of them actually record onto DVDs with simultaneous back-up to prevent what you are inferring.

MissyRose on June 12th, 2005 4:22 pm
Aruba girl- Is are roofies (date rape drug) big in Aruba? It is almost impossible to get around here.

ScaredBlackGuy on June 12th, 2005 4:23 pm
arubagirl, Sorry if I offended, seriously, I am not that way. I was between jobs after moving to Atlanta and I worked for TYCO/ADT in commercial sales (hated it) so I got real familiar with security systems….but I ‘m a data analyst by profession so I am always making “judgements” as to the validity of data.

arubagirl on June 12th, 2005 4:26 pm
Missyrose, I have no knowledge. Couldn’t say yes, couldn’t say no. However, as long as I can remember, my parents have warned me about not leaving my drink unattended, don’t take drinks from stangers, look at the bartender when he’s making my drink etc etc. So I’m guessing there have been cases.

serenity2000 on June 12th, 2005 4:38 pm
Per Karl Penhaul of CNN: The sample of “blood” that was sent to VA is NOT BLOOD. No word on what it is though. This was just broadcasted on CNN…..they may retract is soon but anyway that’s the latest.

Kat on June 12th, 2005 4:39 pm
FOX Update (nothing big):

Aruba PM to hold a news conference at 8pm to local media only in his native language. It is to assure the natives of Aruba that everything is under control.
 
Natalee’s family is getting more and more upset about how the case is being handled by Aruba officials.

No one will be released including the 2 security guards, as Aruba officials claim they have enough on the 2 men to continue holding them. (no word on what it is)
 
Blood found in silver car (Joran’s) is being tested in the US and in Holland. No info on the results yet.

Tila_Bean on June 12th, 2005 4:40 pm
Doesn’t it take several days for a conclusive report on the blood? I’m shocked that there is already word on it.

serenity2000 on June 12th, 2005 4:41 pm
Kat, CNN just announced that it is NOT blood that was found in the car but that there is no word on what it is.

KerinTX on June 12th, 2005 4:45 pm
That would be strange since there are initial tests you do to confirm “blood” evidence prior to sending it off for testing.

Kat on June 12th, 2005 4:45 pm
Well that’s weird, because all other outlets are reporting that it’s indeed human blood but they won’t know whose until the DNA results come back.

This investigation is completely FUBAR.

NativeLingo on June 12th, 2005 4:49 pm
Fact: both of Natalee’s parents were taken to a government operated lab on friday afternoon.

Kat on June 12th, 2005 4:54 pm
Thanks! (Nothing new…but I can’t find any confirmation that CNN reported the blood not to be human)

Leslie Sprenger on June 12th, 2005 4:55 pm
It was reported on CBS

KerinTX on June 12th, 2005 4:55 pm
Fox News online still says “human blood” but not identified who’s blood.

Catriana on June 12th, 2005 4:56 pm
Fox news is now reporting that blood taken from the car was not blood, that it could have been saliva, but that it was NOT blood.

What next?

Whodeenie on June 12th, 2005 4:57 pm
FOX, News Alert. Substance found in car, not blood.

MissyRose on June 12th, 2005 4:57 pm
It is definitley not blood. Could be saliva but it is not an issue because the boys admitted she was in the car. FOXNEWS

KerinTX on June 12th, 2005 4:58 pm
Quote from an attorney of one of the guards…
“This is turning into a game, an illogical investigation,”

DT on June 12th, 2005 4:58 pm
HOW do you confuse blood and saliva. Also if it was saliva found was it still in the trunk or was that wrong as well.

Kat on June 12th, 2005 4:58 pm
Jesus, this whole thing is a freak show…

MissyRose on June 12th, 2005 4:59 pm
I am on Joren’s brothers personal site. Some wierd comments. I think this is a case of teenage fun gone wrong. But you would think they would admit that.

Tila_Bean on June 12th, 2005 5:01 pm
I agree Kat, it is a freak show. To confuse blood from saliva is, I don’t even have the words. Mind you a whole day has passed.

Whodeenie on June 12th, 2005 5:02 pm
Pasting from AP breaking News site:
Lawyers for two former hotel security guards detained in the case said they would file motions Monday for the immediate release of their clients.

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBOEQQNV9E.html

“This is turning into a game, an illogical investigation,” said Noraina Pietersz, who is representing Antonius “Mickey” John, 30. “The prosecution is pretending it has information that we don’t have.” John and Abraham Jones, 28, have been detained since June 5 and have denied any connection to Holloway.

Attorney General Caren Janssen said Sunday that “there is reasonable suspicion, so it’s not time to let them go. We are still in the middle of an investigation.”

Appears that the security guard is tired of the “game,” allegedly being played.

friend of mickey john on June 12th, 2005 5:05 pm
whodeenie-quick thought- if they are let go they will be talking to the press about their ordeal thus far and really make the officials look bad….gotta go. Maybe if geraldo leaves/within100 days/

owen2u on June 12th, 2005 5:06 pm
maybe go in one of those caves and say well surprise there she is we found her now everyone go home ..free drinks for everyone!!!

MissyRose on June 12th, 2005 5:07 pm
http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?tab=business&id=MB56W.iq7uT4vvL7
Here is the site. (I hope that is allowed)

owen2u on June 12th, 2005 5:08 pm
am I too far out there in that conclusion? I’m from Alabama and have been ponderinbg that idea..that maybe she was kidnapped and whisked away and they are just stalling until they can get her back and “discover” her…..

friend of mickey john on June 12th, 2005 5:09 pm
smell cover up??

Dallas Also on June 12th, 2005 5:09 pm
owen2u, that is my theory also. I think that is why the 4th guy got arrested yesterday morning.

owen2u on June 12th, 2005 5:10 pm
I think they were gonna hang it on the 2 security guards the the US Media got involved..the way its been reported here Arubian Authorities tinitally turned down offer of help from FBI…is that true?

ScaredBlackGuy on June 12th, 2005 5:12 pm
Who says its not blood? FoxNewsDotCom
————————————————————————————–
Aruban Authorities Investigate Blood in Car
Sunday, June 12, 2005
ORANJESTAD, Aruba - Authorities investigating the disappearance of Alabama honors student Natalee Holloway were seeking clues on the source of blood found in the car used to transport the missing teen to the beach nearly two weeks ago, Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes said.

NativeLingo on June 12th, 2005 5:12 pm
Not true Owen….help was always welcomed…

owen2u on June 12th, 2005 5:14 pm
It was intersting to me that your prime minister practically guaranteed it would be solved in 24 hours on Geraldo last night..made me wonder if they’d found her and were moving her back onto the Island..thats why I have started thinkin this way recently

Leslie Sprenger on June 12th, 2005 5:15 pm
Interesting that the van der Sloot brother says his profession is a pimp.
Maybe he was the 6th person arrested.

DT on June 12th, 2005 5:16 pm
Any word yet if the substance was found in trunk like previous reports stated?

KerinTX on June 12th, 2005 5:17 pm
Professional Pimp…bet that gets you a lot of interviews when put on a resume.

MissyRose on June 12th, 2005 5:19 pm
Did anyone else on the site see the comment from his friend … saying remember the marriott, that was crazy… strange esepcially since the kid was 15 at the time of the posting.

MissyRose on June 12th, 2005 5:20 pm
Well a 15 year old claiming to be a pimp is a little uncomfortable.

KerinTX on June 12th, 2005 5:26 pm
Missy, actually Joran’s web blog (before it was taken down) had his profession as pimp too. Must be a family thing.

arubagirl on June 12th, 2005 5:26 pm
Native, do you know if the PM is going to speak in Engl or in Papiamento?

NativeLingo on June 12th, 2005 5:28 pm
A-girl. Papiamento (he doesn’t speak English)
(and only prensa local)

friend of mickey john on June 12th, 2005 5:43 pm
they took a camera from mickeys house in a evidence bag…some stolen camera story/nothing official. but, I brought a sony digital to mickey from US in 12/04 and yes cancun-mole I did give info to localDA to give to FBI

KerinTX on June 12th, 2005 5:51 pm
Scared…I have one TV on Fox news and one on CNN and another laptop on Fox News online and I don’t see a thing about the blood not being blood.

ScaredBlackGuy on June 12th, 2005 5:52 pm
My findings too KerinTX.

Jerry on June 12th, 2005 5:59 pm
So, If I get my Mother in Law drunk and drop her at the HI in Aruba do you think that would be a good place to get rid of her

serenity2000 on June 12th, 2005 6:00 pm
# DT Says:
June 12th, 2005 at 5:51 pm
Why does it have to be on the website? Myself, and several others have seen it reported on Fox NEws Channel clearly and plainly.

**LOL** I’ve already heard it twice on CNN myself. People may just have to tune into CNN or Fox and hear it with their own ears (I can be that way myself sometimes).

KerinTX on June 12th, 2005 6:01 pm
Scared…Ok FOX News just said it is not blood in the car.

Dallas Also on June 12th, 2005 6:02 pm
Fox and CNN have apparently made the decision that breaking news will be delivered only verbally, not posted on their websites.

Kipster on June 12th, 2005 6:06 pm
Good catch Dallas. CNN & FOX don’t want anymore f-ups in Google’s cache. “Confession Made”, “Body Found”…idiots.

hindsight: perhaps those weren't f-ups/they weren't idiots

KerinTX on June 12th, 2005 6:08 pm
Trapenburg…Govt Spokesman on FOX now. He is stating exactly what some have been saying…that they are not bungling the case but they are just not used to these type of cases and THAT THEY DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY than US law enforcement does. (which has then been the cause for many untrue rumors)

arubagirl on June 12th, 2005 6:57 pm
WOw, Top 95 was doing so well, and now they’ve gone to the deep end…

Kipster on June 12th, 2005 7:07 pm
What are Top95 saying? Hearing a lot of “Natalee”.

arubagirl on June 12th, 2005 7:08 pm
Talking about the blood, whose it is, who said what, etc.

DT on June 12th, 2005 7:10 pm
Has there been any news since the whole “blood isn’t really blood” thing?

mustiquemama on June 12th, 2005 7:11 pm
arubagirl, I’d love to be updated on the “facts” of the blood. Was it blood or other fluid, which car, whose car, seat or trunk, etc. Some of the things published and reported today seem to be fabrications rather than facts.

--- on June 12th, 2005 7:12 pm
wait, what is going on with the “blood” ordeal?

DT on June 12th, 2005 7:13 pm
Fox is reporting that it was not blood found, but something else, for those asking.

arubagirl on June 12th, 2005 7:13 pm
mustique, nothing official yet. The radio station says that according to them, it wasn’t her blood. But nothing from cops/FBI/prosecutor.

--- on June 12th, 2005 7:13 pm
What was it then?

MissyRose on June 12th, 2005 7:14 pm
It wasn’t blood, possibly saliva. But because the boys say she was in the car, it gives no lead.

mustiquemama on June 12th, 2005 7:19 pm
Arubagirl, did Top95 say anything about the substance not being blood? Has anyone besides Fox said it was not blood? Has anyone besides Fox said it was found in the trunk and not the seat as we first heard? And always, thank you.

K in TX on June 12th, 2005 7:19 pm
Does anyone know if they are letting the FBI probe these suspects? I don’t know if Aruban law would allow it, but man…I have to think they’d be able to get something out of these kids.

arubagirl on June 12th, 2005 7:20 pm
K, I really really hope so. Otherwise what’s the point of having 30 FBI agents on the island.

Rick on June 12th, 2005 7:30 pm
The PM yesterday on Geraldo *promised* there’d be some conclusion to this case by today. He’s set to give a speech in a few minutes. If he rambles on about how he and his island are doing all they can, but there’s nothing to report - I expect you will see a shitstorm of criticism heaped upon him and his law enforcement people.

Let’s see what happens.. Apart from that and today’s excavation at the lighthouse which revealed nothing - I dont think there’s anything to report. The fact that they did do an excavation tells me they have no idea where the body may be, despite having the 3 kids in custody and subjecting them to interrogation..

IIRC Katrina was the end of Ting/our loss

undated/summer 2005
bluebob: Agreed, Ting, but the "advantageous financial laws" were about anonymity in banking transactions and I think Aruba recently (this year or late last year) agreed to full disclosure to the U.S. So any advantages now are illegal.

Ting: Then the US should have any information about the casino arrangements, and it will be to them that the family should look for answers to those questions, or recommendations that they not be asked.

I am sorry to say that I had feared that at some point Mrs. Beth might find that obstacles to having her daughter returned might not be as simple as 3 callow youths.

I continue to hope that all involved parties will somehow be able to reach an accord that will result in a return of Natalee to her mother.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Ting, I do not know if the passports were given back to the MB kids before packing. All I heard was Beth saying Nat's was in her purse. Did Nat put it there, or someone else? Don't know.

Ting: In my opinion, that is a question that I would hope that law enforcement of both Aruba and US would have determined the answer to.

It is interesting that with all the details, many contradictory, that we are told of that night, all are silent on this question.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

(re Jossy/Diario PI yesterday, displaying Joran's shoes in March photo): I saw that investigator that the paper hired on Joe (Scarborough) and he said that he knew that the picture is old... Did I hear that correctly?? Anyone? Am I here??

Ting: I did not watch Joe but several people have posted that he did say that. Maybe he did not have a chance to tell Jossy it was old, or maybe Jossy did not have a chance to tell him not to say it was old.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

kath8700: And the people who are on Vacation, and had to leave for some reason or another need to be pulled back and questioned ...

Ting: There were many men in Aruba on May 29 who would be leaving, if they chose, never to return, the next day.

The decision was made not to go down that road though.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Ting, you are such a witty stuffed hottie, that I wanted to read your sig line. . .translated from French to English and it made no sense. . .will you translate?

Ting: The sig line is from an opera I like. It means
Oh how bored a king would be
If he did not avail himself of the distraction
Of going around incognito
(incognito means in a disguise)

Kipster on June 12th, 2005 9:04 pm
Geraldo’s on live

RB on June 12th, 2005 9:05 pm
Lock down on info - from the FBI to the family for 24 hours. I heard that actually on another site but didn’t know if that really was the case.

Leslie Sprenger on June 12th, 2005 9:08 pm
What is Geraldo saying?

RB on June 12th, 2005 9:11 pm
Geraldo was supposed to have Ms. Holloway’s parents on again, and they have been asked by the FBI to cool their jets mediawise for 24 hours. That’s a fairly interesting overall, because the FBI has no juristiction there.

Furthermore, I saw on NBC a few minutes ago a commercial for Today - Katie Couric was supposed to have Ms. Holloway’s mother on tomorrow morning. If what Geraldo is saying is true, then that may not happen, either.

Kipster on June 12th, 2005 9:16 pm
“Geraldo was supposed to have Ms. Holloway’s parents on again, and they have been asked by the FBI to cool their jets mediawise for 24 hours. That’s a fairly interesting overall, because the FBI has no juristiction there.”

Interesting also in that perhaps something big’s coming after the 24-hour period?

Bill on June 12th, 2005 9:17 pm
That Ms. Holloway’s parents are going along with the request to “cool it” for 24 hours may be a good sign. Lets hope there’s a good reason for it.

RB on June 12th, 2005 9:18 pm
Kipster - maybe. Something is definitely up though, if in fact the FBI really convinced the family in 24 hours they’d know the truth. I mean think about it - your daughter is missing and you’re furious/frustrated. Someone who have to give you something pretty over the top to make you not apply more pressure.

RB on June 12th, 2005 9:19 pm
Bill - Great Minds….

Bill on June 12th, 2005 9:21 pm
“… if in fact the FBI really convinced the family in 24 hours they’d know the truth.”
That’s not what was said. The family was asked to “cool their jets for 24 hours”

RB on June 12th, 2005 9:25 pm
“That’s not what was said. The family was asked to “cool their jets for 24 hours”

I was inferring, forgive me. I was attempting to propose a “why” that could compel them to do so, a “why” being currently bandied about on journalism subscription sites.

cautivo on June 12th, 2005 9:31 pm
RB you can be confident that every aspect of US involvement, from scale to timeline to operational details, are a result of decisions made by American officials.

RB on June 12th, 2005 9:32 pm
“RB you can be confident that every aspect of US involvement, from scale to timeline to operational details, are a result of decisions made by American officials.”

Sorry, I won’t be taking your word for that. Not when I’m a position to know better.

DT on June 12th, 2005 10:00 pm
Holloway’s mother says the charges agains the two guards should be dropped.

KerinTX on June 12th, 2005 10:00 pm
Geraldo is on now…

KerinTX on June 12th, 2005 10:04 pm
Natalee’s mom is quoted as saying “all 3 of those boys know what happened to my daughter”

friend of mickey john on June 12th, 2005 10:06 pm
nh mom told police to let guards go
on fox

KerinTX on June 12th, 2005 10:07 pm
Geraldo trying to squeeze any “hints” out of the Aruban official. (Van der Biezen) He just asked how we can be assured that the VDS family is not influencing the case.

friend of mickey john on June 12th, 2005 10:10 pm
who is vivian, the official aua spokesperson???
Doesn’t matter now shes screwed
Geraldo has vivian with forensic specialist
uh oh not good for her

Plus statement that dna tests not taken into cust immed for evidence because the boys already told the police that she was in car…so, of course no need to look….OMG

Booyakasha on June 12th, 2005 10:12 pm
What’s up with this Ernie “Big Pussy” Rizzo wannabe gangster as a guest on Geraldo right now????

KerinTX on June 12th, 2005 10:13 pm
….oh and also there was the question of WHY the evidence (even if it is saliva or semen or kool aid for God’s sake)…why is it now not being sent for DNA analysis?

NativeLingo on June 12th, 2005 10:14 pm
Ruben Trappenberg….
He basically went over legal procedures….

RB on June 12th, 2005 10:23 pm
Here we go with what Geraldo does best: background investigations of the accused.

KerinTX on June 12th, 2005 10:24 pm
Geraldo’s show now focusing on VDS and his past…

KerinTX on June 12th, 2005 10:26 pm
Geraldo just called him “precocious”. I think he meant to say Pimp….

Local woman said he threw a classmate through a plate glass window and has anger problems.

Sarah on June 12th, 2005 11:11 pm
What is the brothers reputation on the island? What did the other Alabama teens think of these boys, didn’t they spend time with them at the Casino?

IDontKnowNuttinAndKnowMoreThanYou! on June 12th, 2005 11:13 pm
Natalees friends did not like him. Even had a scuffle

Sarah on June 12th, 2005 11:13 pm
I heard somewhere that the 3 boys got into an argument or fight with some of the Alabama teens. Anyone else hear this?

DT on June 12th, 2005 11:14 pm
Fox reported that there was an altercation between joren and some of the alabama group at C&C’s.

K in TX on June 12th, 2005 11:14 pm
Yes, I think it’s been pretty well confirmed. However, it seems as if it was more of a shouting match than an actual fist type of fight.

NativeLingo on June 12th, 2005 11:15 pm
Yes Sarah….here’s the link: http://www.postherald.com/me061005

IDontKnowNuttinAndKnowMoreThanYou! on June 12th, 2005 11:17 pm
One of her friends said in Bham paper that he broke up the shoving match.

Enola Gay on June 12th, 2005 11:48 pm
Whats the latest about the sixth guy arrested?

Tanya on June 12th, 2005 11:50 pm
Sixth guy? Whats going on?

Enola Gay on June 12th, 2005 11:50 pm
I heard on the news a guy was arrested yesterday morn?

NativeLingo on June 12th, 2005 11:51 pm
Tanya….6th guy is unrelated from what I hear….but at this point who knows?

Ben on June 13th, 2005 10:22 am
what about the friends of these guys…yeah, she was seen leaving w/ the 3 of them…but from all accounts, they were very close w/ other guys, freddy and jaime, being the two in EVERY picture almost on Joran and the Kalpoe’s websites. These guys have to know something. And the whole planning around the swimming pool doesn’t make sense. Joran talked with NH’s stepfather the day after she disappeared, why would he not have brought that story out then? He’s a liar.

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 2:23 pm
The older Van Der Sloot has been taken in again by Aruban Police.

Kay Thompson on June 23rd, 2005 2:24 pm
Simian: Where did you hear the info of your last post?

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 2:27 pm
Can’t confirm that he is detained. He has been taken in again by the authorities.

Checkme on June 23rd, 2005 2:37 pm
My thoughts:
1. the authorities need to take him out of the game and arrest him.
2. since Twitty was prompting that he could be one of the to be arrested parties…
3. extension of principle at base of the 3 boyz’ arrest.
4. only way to ensure that authorities can ask all they want/need.
5. this could change the 2-1 ratio to a 2-2 ratio, opening way for release. (this is just a brainstorm)

MOMfromMO on June 23rd, 2005 2:39 pm
checkme:
Are you speaking of Daddy VDS? I sense an arrest is emminent (sp?)

Kay Thompson on June 23rd, 2005 2:41 pm
I haven’t been able to find a news posting yet for Paulus Van Der Sloot being taken in.

Kristin on June 23rd, 2005 2:43 pm
Thanks for giving us the news first checkme. We love you!

Kristin on June 23rd, 2005 2:45 pm
On fox 25 news channel. They have the official news from prosecutors. They are asking if a possible reason he is arrested is because he spoke with Greta, and maybe he said something to Greta and Beth that he shouldn’t have, and Greta went to the police. ???????

Emily on June 23rd, 2005 2:50 pm
FOX NEWS: Joran van der Sloot’s father Paulus arrested in Aruba

B'ham Belle on June 23rd, 2005 2:51 pm
It’s on the Fox website now…papa’s in the slammer!

Jake on June 23rd, 2005 2:52 pm
I am watching Greta: She is saying that he (FATHER) might have been taken in because of the interview last night on TV. Maybe the authorities do not want him in the media so they arrested him.. Remember, you are not allowed to talk about the case, and maybe he spoke too much in his interview.

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 2:56 pm
There is a gap in the stories between father and son.

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 2:57 pm
I mentioned yesterday that there is a gap in the timeline. Where’s Jake?

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 2:58 pm
One of the Kalpoes might be let go. Can’t confirm.

Checkme on June 23rd, 2005 3:00 pm
Simian, good to see you.
 
Of course there is a gap.

Why is Greta still on this relatively small case? Does she see good drama? Does she feel what I am feeling? Wants to be around for when this breaks? It will be bigger world news for sure.

Rachael on June 23rd, 2005 3:00 pm
Simian Says:
June 23rd, 2005 at 2:58 pm
One of the Kalpoes might be let go. Can’t confirm

WHERE DID YOU HEAR THIS?

Kris on June 23rd, 2005 3:02 pm
CNN just said that he is a suspect in the disappearance of NH

Jake on June 23rd, 2005 3:02 pm
GRETA talked to Kalpoes parents…CRS, where are you?

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 3:03 pm
The gap is in the timeline. Phone records. Log-on times on PC’s.
What we don’t know yet is what The Hague has found.

pktbk on June 23rd, 2005 3:04 pm
where did everyone go? this is huge!!!!

GRETA TALKED TO THE BROTHERS PARENTS?! finally!!

okay the holes have to do with the times the dad and joran said the dad picked him up.

Kris on June 23rd, 2005 3:05 pm
pktbk,
Did you hear/see it? What did they say??

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 3:05 pm
If you were asleep who answered your phone?

pktbk on June 23rd, 2005 3:06 pm
is it true they might let one of the brothers go?

check-how does this hurt the case? was someone being pushed to bring him?
crs-are you watching the news?

Jake on June 23rd, 2005 3:06 pm
NEWS UPDATE:
The Kalpoe mom says that the 3 boys got together the next day to “get their stories straight”. That is why the original story was that they dropped her off at the Holiday Inn, but the Kalpoe brothers later confessed that that was a lie, that they were trying to protect Joran. They (Kalpoe bros) left Joran and NH at the beach and that Joran walked home. They are saying that maybe the father helped him cover up the crime, as well as the DJ.

Emily on June 23rd, 2005 3:06 pm
Now Greta is saying that Kalpoe brothers have said that they told their mother that they dropped Nat and Joran off at the beach and then that Joran left Nat at the beach and walked home, but they also just said that all 3 boys got together the next morning and got their stories together. So, the Kalpoes brothers mom has come forward with what she knows. PAULUS IS OFFICIALY A SUSPECT

pktbk on June 23rd, 2005 3:07 pm
kris-my coworkers husband called. that’s where i heard they arrested him on the suspicion. there isn’t a time set on how long they will hold him.

sim-that makes sense. but then again, who can actually say what time they did something almost a month ago. i couldn’t. not taking up for them, just saying if questioned i would be in jail myself.

where is shockthemonkey?!

Kristin on June 23rd, 2005 3:08 pm
ok listen to this-this is what i think

CHECKME, are you listening? COUNTRY MOON are you listening??

Joran and Natalee were dropped off at the beach. The brothers maybe went home. Joran called Daddy after something bad happened on the beach and Daddy picked him up. NO WAY Joran walked. What if someone saw him walking? At 3am on a school night, they would wonder. Now, I can’t figure out the boat part. Maybe they called the DJ to come pick up Nat, and that’s when they took her somewhere. Someone said before that she was drugged….and that they raped her. So they needed to get rid of her before their DNA was found all over her body. AND, where the hell is Beth? She hasn’t been commenting on any of this. And Deepak did get an email early in the morning about something, AND they all met the next morning to get their stories straight. Joran asked them all to lie, the brothers said they told the lie of dropping Nat off to cover Joran. Check me???? Country moon?????

BhamNativeGirl on June 23rd, 2005 3:08 pm
So the Kalpoe parents are saying are saying that their sons pretty much DID have something to do with it?? The Kalpoe parents aren’t denying that there was a crime??

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 3:09 pm
You can’t remember answering a phone call at 2:00 in the morning? When the next day your son was picked up?

pktbk on June 23rd, 2005 3:10 pm
HOLY MONKEY!!!

no wonder we hadn’t heard from their parents. WOW! i can’t see joran walking from the beach to his house. that would take awhile wouldn’t it? wow. :O

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 3:10 pm
Father is a suspect of the disappearance.

KatCall on June 23rd, 2005 3:13 pm
PKTBK:
What about the brothers parents?

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 3:14 pm
The Kalpoes will remain detained, because they agreed to go along with the Holiday Inn story.

crs on June 23rd, 2005 3:15 pm
Checkme, i saw one of your posts to Kristin, so you think that Joran and Paul are going to get railroaded on this?

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 3:17 pm
Steve Croes is singing.

pktbk on June 23rd, 2005 3:20 pm
about the parents-i never saw them on the news. the kalpoe parents. this would explain why. they had some serious information. wow. wow. wow.

Trisher on June 23rd, 2005 3:21 pm
Simian - how do you know Croes is “singing?”

“BREAKING NEWS: PAUL VAN DER SLOOT HAS BEEN ARRESTED”

Peter on June 23rd, 2005 2:43 pm
YES!

heatherey on June 23rd, 2005 2:53 pm
well it looks like shock knew what he was talking about!

Mike on June 23rd, 2005 3:05 pm
Natalee’s father called this one last night on Fox if you saw the interview. He said he believed the father knew more than he was telling and that others would be arrested. Sounds like he knows what is going on!

scaredshitless on June 23rd, 2005 3:10 pm
Greta said she interviewed the two Kalpoe brothers’ mom and they told their MOM they dropped off Joran & Natalee at the beach& that Joran walked home ALONE

billsfan960 on June 23rd, 2005 3:14 pm
Where did you read or see that Geta interviewed Kalpoe brothers’ mom

scaredshitless on June 23rd, 2005 3:14 pm
billsfan: I am watching FOX all day & she said it about 15 min ago!

Hyderabad on June 23rd, 2005 3:18 pm
Aruban police had arrested the DJ since his original story of having seen the 3 boys drop NH at HI did not hold water.

Did the Dad say something that has been verified as false? And hence, he is also arrested?

edie on June 23rd, 2005 9:36 pm
Well, I don’t know who all can get it now, but Beth Holloway is on tv giving an interview

edie on June 23rd, 2005 9:37 pm
She is saying that she absolutley knows that Natalee has been kidnapped. She said that Someone is holding her, and the vander sloots and the brothers know who it is

edie on June 23rd, 2005 9:49 pm
It was fox news. Hannity and Colmes. The spokesman Marianne Croes just told this man that the father is being held because they think he had something to do with her disappearance. The man asked her was it for covering up the disappearance, she said no, directly involved with the disappearance

Kristin on June 23rd, 2005 10:22 pm
Anyone seen checkme?

suspicious on June 23rd, 2005 10:23 pm
I was enjoying info from Shock Monkey until someone made him/her angry enough to leave.

Lucy on June 23rd, 2005 10:25 pm
Hi Kristin. Lost track of you guys with the weblog shut down. Have been looking for you guys on all comment pages 1178, 1179, 1180. crs, Ally, Checkme, Simian, Bham and the rest of the crew are not posting yet.

Kristin on June 23rd, 2005 10:27 pm
I wonder why, I spoke with a few of them via email today. We had a little chat going on through instant messanger.

I now know enough to keep me satisfied….for now.

Lucy on June 23rd, 2005 10:27 pm
Kristin
What do you think of the latest development, in lieu of last night’s discussions.

suspicious on June 23rd, 2005 10:28 pm
Kristin-did you hear anything besides what the media has released?

Kristin on June 23rd, 2005 10:33 pm
well, i dont really know. i am trying to let my brain rest as much as possible. i had been going crazy about this case…annoyed with the fakeness from the media and the family. someone has said that the 5th suspect is someone named lorenzo…and that he has natalee on the island. someone else mentioned that they had her in a graffiti painted van, with a large speaker in the back…and that this lorenzo person is either related to or close to joran. joran supposedly was just helping lorenzo, but no one knows if he did anything with or to natalee. is it said that the family knows this, and the reason that nat’s friends had a cookout to “raise money” for natalee’s fund was really to raise money for her ransom. supposedly no one can say anything because then the kidnappers will do something bad to nat. of course, this is all speculation, and based on what SOME of the people in aruba are saying. i am not pointing fingers at anyone, the information comes from a bunch of people. supposedly there was some sort of car chase or something, and natalee was said to be in thr car….i dont know if that came from aruba or not….and this all explains why natalee’s family is confident for the most part that she is in aruba, and that she is alive. they are getting tips on whats going on.

dont count me on this for sure, i dont really know what is truth and what is rumor.

suspicious on June 23rd, 2005 10:36 pm
Thanks. It sounds like we missed a lot!

Lucy on June 23rd, 2005 10:40 pm
Kristin
To me, the possibility of a kidnapping was an opportunity for her to surface alive. Now, with Paul Van Der Sloot in jail, two thoughts come to mind: her chances of being alive have drastically decreased or if she is still alive and somebody has her captive, either van der Sloot is being detained to get information if he is really involved, or to give him protection from possible outcomes

Kristin on June 23rd, 2005 10:43 pm
yes, i think she is alive…people in aruba say she is, and i cant believe our fake media. it’s sickening…they all know whats going on.

TheGreatPretender on June 23rd, 2005 11:58 pm
Anyone see Larry King tonight ???????????

Ms Croes stated that Paul Van Der Sloot was being held as a Suspect in A PREMEDITATED MURDER as are the other 3 Slobs……………

No one picked up on her statement…………………

Checkme on June 24th, 2005 12:05 am
Lucy, you there? I am, barely…

Checkme on June 24th, 2005 12:16 am
I guess everybody is asleep, I am very tired also. This case has me gripped. We are all shocked here in aruba about Senior’s detention. It is difficult to see the big picture today because of all the emotions. But The K&R still stands. May NH be reunited with us. Goodnite all. Be good to your loved ones.

******* on June 24th, 2005 3:05 am
CHECKME AND CRS, WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY NOW!!!! All of you defenders of Juron’s family and of the kidnapping theory, how do you explain dad’s arrest. Is it only to fool the real kidnappers that the authorities are not on to them? Why would the VDS agree to have dad and son arrested only to play a game so that authorities don’t let the kidnappers know what;s up. ADMIT IT, YOU WERE WRONG! NO KIDANAPPING, NO HUMAN TRAFFICKING — JUST ROTTEN STINKY DUTCH CRIMINALS.

Johan on June 24th, 2005 4:12 am
Hey ******* - I don’t think anybody here was DEFENDING the VDS family. They were just saying that they are innocent until proven guilty. This is the way our (and the US system) works, and that’s the way it should be. Also, I have every faith in the Dutch judicial system, and I doubt if things would have gone any differently if the US media were not on top of this story. Settle down, man.

Checkme on June 24th, 2005 8:05 am
Theory still stands.
 
vdSloots are innocent. Junior needs to be slapped for blabbering. Listen to Cardoza. This little island has to react to US pressure and ruin one of it’s most precious resources, very fine citizen family. I am very sad and afraid.

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 8:11 am
good morning all….does bringing in the dad make nat’s fate worse?

Checkme on June 24th, 2005 8:13 am
No, but everybody else’s.

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 8:22 am
i think we wanted the dad to be brought in because it seemed he knew more, but once he was arrested, i no longer felt like the ending would be good.

Kris on June 24th, 2005 8:23 am
Morning all!!

Checkme are you still here? How are things this morning? Any new news on the recent arrest? Is the Texas team there?

Do you feel that NH is still alive?

Checkme on June 24th, 2005 8:30 am
Sorry for the diversion on Iraq, should be on different blog.

Kris, good to see you. things are bad, very sad. severe blow in the gut. honestly did not expect this.

Checkme on June 24th, 2005 8:37 am
Something like that should not happen and thus is always bad timing and bad luck. what estranges me, it that usually somebody can be “cracked” for the truth withing 10 days, a kid especially. why don’t we have it yet? because it simply is not in joran? after they have wasted the vdS and found out nothing on the whereabouts of NH, then what? i need to believe in something and i still believe in the K/R scenario. but this is a tough morning.

Yliana on June 24th, 2005 8:45 am
The Texas team will be checking the peripheral waters first. They brought sonar equipment; then they will tackle the land with 3 dogs, special for tracking corpses.

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 8:46 am
YLIANA-are they there now? i think today will be significant. isn’t today when they present information to the judge so he can make a ruling on how to proceed?

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 8:48 am
checkme-do you know if they have searched the beach where joran said he last saw nh?

Yliana on June 24th, 2005 8:51 am
pktbk - yes they are here. They arrived yesterday, not all of them though. Today supposedly the rest of the team will get here.

The judge has yet to decide when he will receive the K bros and Joran.

Checkme on June 24th, 2005 8:51 am
they did search that, a little late though. but there are many people there every day, so contamination is imminent. i have to go, will be back later.

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 8:52 am
thank you yliana.

has anyone heard from shockthemonkey?

again, i thank the people in aruba for coming on here and keeping us updated.

VANESSA on June 24th, 2005 8:52 am
Good morning friends. I have come to the conclusion that shock is somehow involved in the investigation. He/she knew way too much yesterday and then pappy had to run him/her off. Let’s hope that shock returns this morning with some more info!

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 8:53 am
bye checkme-i was surprised they hadn’t searched it from the beginning. but maybe they really had and it wasn’t made public. who knows?

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 8:59 am
vander-i just hope they find SOMETHING. her clothes. something on his clothes. anything!

gm vanessa-i agree! i hope shock comes back. it would suck if big papy ran him/her off!

Big Pappy on June 24th, 2005 9:03 am
Baffling. All of it. When you look at how so many involved on both sides (parents, chaperones, friends, students, bar patrons and the detainees) have not said much of anything useful in order to further the case, I personally have to wonder if the kidnapping theory could be right on. Considering all the talk especially on the blogs about the kidnapping theory in the last couple days(all monitored I’m sure) maybe the heat was being turned up a little too much and they needed to move and do something big to take the attention away, like arresting the father. Don’t know, one thing is for sure, if they would arrest the father under pure diversion purposes, and essentially hang 2/3 of the VDS family out to dry, as if they are the responsible parties, while other scenarios play out, the players in those scenarios must be huge.

And remember, if the kidnapping scenario has been brought up in the inner circle, and I’m sure it has, why no more media talk of that option? Without a body, unsure why that scenario would not be discussed as well, but beyond the blogs, it really has not been focused on.

And my apologies to the blog, but I did not force SHOCK to leave. I was not nasty or mean to him, only gave my opinion on his completely cryptic clues. He can get a backbone folks as I didn’t attack him personally so he left this blog on his own accord, cryptic clues and all.

Hang in there CheckMe, I’m with you.

Kris on June 24th, 2005 9:13 am
pk–If I may call you that? I would believe that if she were kidnapped, she is probably being moved around still. I think with the latest arrest they (kidnappers) still think that they are safe.

Again, maybe he (Paul) was arrested because he spoke to the press and they want to keep him quite and to throw off the “real” investigation.

pktb on June 24th, 2005 9:17 am
kris-pk is fine.

i’m trying to hang on to her being alive.

bigpappy-i understand you not liking the cryptic responses, but others have had the same posts and you didn’t jump them. that’s why i think shock left. but i hope he/she will be back though.

you know who shocked me? simian! normally so insane, but yesterday supplied news as it happened.

VANESSA on June 24th, 2005 9:18 am
I think you came down on shock a little hard myself big pappy. True, he/she left on his/her own accord, but you more less called him/her a liar and were challenging them to disclose his/her source…..you were asking for facts. Obvisouly from the events that unfolded yesterday, there was truth in what he/she said.

Kris on June 24th, 2005 9:19 am
I was also surprised by simian. I asked Tom if he had a chance to send my email to Shock, if I hear anything from him/her I will pass it on. It would be nice if Shock came back though. They were right on yesterday with “watch noord”.

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 9:22 am
checkme still feels the vds’s are innocent and that even though they are decoys, this has ruined their name.

shock had noord right on the money. wow. i wonder if he/she is a neighbor or something. do they have police scanners in aruba?

Big Pappy on June 24th, 2005 9:24 am
Did not jump him, did not call him a liar. He asked a question, I answered.

Yliana on June 24th, 2005 9:25 am
There are some people with police scanners … the police. The public/reporters don’t carry them as they do in the US.

VANESSA on June 24th, 2005 9:28 am
I must have missed that one…what question did shock ask you pappy? I wonder when shock said PIMPle, if he was referring to daddy vds and that he is somehow involved in a sex slave ring or something.

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 9:34 am
yliana-there are people in their homes here that have them. that’s why i asked. so there goes that theory that shock got his info from a scanner. lol

Checkme on June 24th, 2005 9:36 am
just a thought, if somebody told you to shut up otherwise they would kill you family, one by one, would you talk?

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 9:36 am
papy-i don’t remember shock asking a question. from what i read they were only statements. i know you asked questions, and shock answered the best way he could. in your terms, cryptic.

crs on June 24th, 2005 9:37 am
Who heard Beth say last night that NH was kidnapped and she believes she is being held somewhere on Aruba?

VANESSA on June 24th, 2005 9:38 am
I did crs; did you also hear her say she thinks others are involved??

crs on June 24th, 2005 9:40 am
Oberserver was very angry for the middle of the night.

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 9:40 am
didn’t beth say there are more people that need to be questioned, then the officials made a statement that more arrests would be made?

Nicole on June 24th, 2005 9:44 am
Checkme:
Kristin was saying you were questioned by authorities, and not permitted on this site for giving inside information to us. Is that true?

crs on June 24th, 2005 9:47 am
I can’t quite figure Joran out. Who else heard on fox yesterday afternoon say that when beth was leaving the Sloots the other day after meeting them that she mumbled my daughter was in that house?

Checkme on June 24th, 2005 9:53 am
I did not read Krstin say that. I did see her worries about me. They were well founded. But I am OK. Sad and afraid, but OK.

We have to imagine ourselves, if possible, in this situation. Under stress kids can say strange things. They don’t fully realize the consequences of what they say in this world. The fine line between youth and adulthood is one many of us have gotten into trouble for. Even though we did nothing wrong. I can imagine that has happened here.

Big Pappy on June 24th, 2005 9:54 am
Shock asked the blog if everyone wanted him to continue to provide his information, most said yes, I said no, he left. Seems silly to me, I’m one person and stated my opinion. He’s still here, lurking I’m sure, making all bloggers pay for Big Pappy’s indiscretion.

Kris on June 24th, 2005 10:08 am
checkme,
Do you know if there are search teams in Ven/Col? I believe that Shock had mentioned something to that effect yesterday?

crs on June 24th, 2005 10:08 am
I think something the Kalpoe brothers mom said last night is key…..she said the NH did not even say hello to her boys or introduce herself………I think this made them angry.

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 10:10 am
they thought nh was a snob or something to that effect. but they also said she was falling down drunk. that doesn’t make for someone to say hi nice to meet you.

crs on June 24th, 2005 10:10 am
Concerned - I saw yesterday on the 5′ oclock edition of fox news, the host said that it is barely audible but when she is leaving with Greta she says to Greta “I know my daughter was in that house”.

Kris on June 24th, 2005 10:12 am
PK–I’m not sure I believe the theroy that she was falling down drunk. There was the mistaken identity of the girl in the bathroom at C&C.

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 10:12 am
kris-i thought the kalpoe mom was the one that said the boys told her she was falling down drunk. i could be wrong.

crs on June 24th, 2005 10:13 am
pktbk - you are correct - the mom did say it.

Simian on June 24th, 2005 10:35 am
Anybody want a blessing from Saint Alibi?

crs on June 24th, 2005 10:37 am
Sim, what’s happening, what do you know?

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 10:40 am
simian-please don’t tell me they have one.

crs on June 24th, 2005 10:41 am
I think if anyone had an alibi it would have played a long time ago.

Simian on June 24th, 2005 10:43 am
The 5th suspect. Does anyone remember what I said?

Simian on June 24th, 2005 10:45 am
Who said the alibi played for the Van Der Sloot’s? The 5th suspect is waltzing away.

Lucy on June 24th, 2005 10:45 am
Simian
I thought you were talking about Lorenzo or Maxito.

crs on June 24th, 2005 10:45 am
Sim, I remember, sounded pretty speculative, give the full theory and why all of the boys and the dad are involved.

Checkme on June 24th, 2005 10:46 am
blue van again…

Trisher on June 24th, 2005 10:46 am
I remember what you said Simian. You have been pretty on target.

Simian on June 24th, 2005 10:47 am
Was I the one who was speculative? My story was not about the boys. Don’t dismiss if you can’t remember. Are you asking for a refresher?

Trisher on June 24th, 2005 10:48 am
Simian said there was another person who Natalee met in the kaseeno. I think he would be the 5th suspect Simian is talking about. Right?

crs on June 24th, 2005 10:48 am
Sim, I remember, your theory is NH was seeing someone earlier in the week and this someone got jealous when she moved on later in the week, right?

crs on June 24th, 2005 10:49 am
Sim, your making the aruban authorities sound like a bunch of boobs.

Checkme on June 24th, 2005 10:52 am
speaker…

Kris on June 24th, 2005 10:52 am
checkme,
Blue van again??

Kris on June 24th, 2005 10:54 am
checkme–
I think I am with you...blue van hidden in speaker transported that way?

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 10:54 am
okay….how do you hide a body on short notice and then scatter to the winds so you don’t seem associated with the suspects? you have a blue van with huge loud speakers. you hide the body behind the speaker wall in your van. no different than hiding dope in dashboards or car doors for smuggling.

Simian on June 24th, 2005 10:55 am
Did you ever ask your buddies to cover for you? Would they? Did they ever? Would they do it if they really knew what went on?

concerned4natalee on June 24th, 2005 10:58 am
who even has a blue van

where did this theory come into play

Simian on June 24th, 2005 10:58 am
Nobody is a boob. The alibi needs to be destroyed. Daddy knows who was there. He has answers too.

Checkme on June 24th, 2005 10:58 am
now we are getting somewhere people…

Rachael on June 24th, 2005 10:59 am
Where is this blue van coming from? Do you think we will get so slammed today they will make us go to discussion forum again?

Kris on June 24th, 2005 11:01 am
checkme–
YOU ARE AWESOME!!!

Kris on June 24th, 2005 11:02 am
Checkme–
Who is warmer me or PK with our thoughts?

Transport or body

Trisher on June 24th, 2005 11:02 am
Yeah, Checkme! Didn’t that blue van business come from you? I am sooooooooo getting it now. I am sssooooooooooooooo slow. WIth age comes slowness.

Kris on June 24th, 2005 11:02 am
PK–What do you think???

ydave on June 24th, 2005 11:03 am
Simain and Checkme, Is the blue van in Aruba?

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 11:04 am
just got an email from shockthemonkey:
noord is still going to be on the map today. conclusions will be made, and it will be surprising. dump

hope bigpappy is still open to what i have to say. others look for mail from me. you know who you are.

kris-could be for transport, or hiding. i have no idea. i’m just speculating. but from the interview with the croes aruba spokesperson, they did the search of someone’s car in their driveway. how sterile is that? she told that to nancy grace. nancy needs to be on the first plane out of her air conditioned set. she’s lacking in activity for sure.

concerned4natalee on June 24th, 2005 11:05 am
blue van - tell us about it….. first i’ve heard of it!

Johan on June 24th, 2005 11:10 am
Hey Checkme, you are teasing us all with your little comments every now and then. Could you instead not simply write just one big post with everything you know or with your complete theory?

Jake on June 24th, 2005 11:11 am
I’m watching the news. No new developments. I have been watching the news, and there is not even a speculation about a blue van. I think the VDS family has a blue suv that was taken by the polis to be searched. Checkme, are you an Aruban psychic?

ydave on June 24th, 2005 11:11 am
Checkme and simian coordinated their story about blue van, and their arrival on this forum, to shift the focus on something else.

But Paul and Joran van der Sloot, and the Kalpoes know where Natalee is. And pressure will be exerted on them to tell the truth.

Checkme on June 24th, 2005 11:15 am
Jake, LOL, no I am not. I just listen, watch, read, feel and share.

Sorry for the short sentences sometimes but we have been at this for nearly 3 weeks now. Along the way I have written what I think and honestly don’t feel like writing the whole story every day. When people do write what they think and they need to be informed or corrected I will do so if I see people are following the wrong thread.

Jake on June 24th, 2005 11:16 am
ydave - i totally agree with your theory on Sim and Checkme.

Country Moon = Friend of Natalee
Checkme and Simian = Friends of the VDS Family

Simian on June 24th, 2005 11:17 am
The Kalpoes know nothing. They will remain locked up for lying and obstructing the investigation.

Did I say something about a blue van? I don’t think so.

However, I feel CheckMe is jumping on my bandwagon. E ta OK swa…

Simian on June 24th, 2005 11:18 am
Jake…try again.

Trisher on June 24th, 2005 11:19 am
Simian - if it is true the Kalpoes know nothing, then Mrs. H.T. is wrong is sharing that she is sure that they do.

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 11:20 am
stupid work!

trish-i think nancy is on fox at around 8 or 9. not sure which.

kris-i emailed…i’ll let you know what he said.

crs-you may be right. ‘why won't everyone just let me talk?!’ crash!

okay. i totally understand the van thing now, but who’s van are we talking about? i’m not clear on what everyone drove other than the kalpoe honda?

Lucy on June 24th, 2005 11:23 am
pktbk
The van belongs to Lorenzo Van Rijn. He was brought in for questioning a few days ago. He is supposed to be a hot salsa special.

Kris on June 24th, 2005 11:24 am
PK–Thanks, I am at work too and trying to keep up. This is soo frustrating.

Didn’t the van belong to the DJ???

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 11:27 am
kris-apparently it’s another person altogether. can’t believe i missed it.

if i may ask..anyone….who is cardoza?

Nicole on June 24th, 2005 11:29 am
Simian,
Are you not an American? That is what our law says: You are innocent until proven guilty. I wasn’t talking about Joran or Aruba….I said in America it is that way, I said I think in Aruba it is your guilty until proven innocent….or atleast that’s how it seems. Maybe you should read my sentence before you start calling me names jack@$$.

edie on June 24th, 2005 11:31 am
I think that Beth wants to tell the media whats up but she can’t. I was watching her interview on fox news last night, and she was trying really hard not to say too much

pktbk on June 24th, 2005 11:35 am
kris….lucy told me it was lorenzo something something that was questioned earlier.

Simian on June 24th, 2005 11:36 am
Nicole, so you THINK that’s how it seems to you. I am sorry I called you a fool. You are just uninformed.

So let me repeat myself: INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY…the systems protects the investigation. That is why little or no information is released. Besides that there are terms during which evidence and testimony needs to be presentes that reflect a reasonable motive to detain the suspect.

They must have something major in the father. Nothing to do with the FOX Interview. Has more to do with what came back from The Hague.

still very interested in the TES quarry search

sim was saying "watch the news" and "you will thank me" ...
shock was saying "conclusions will be made, and it will be surprising"

SOMETHING was planned to happen that week

that's when shango appeared for the first time,
the week of the quarry search,
contradicting sim and saying that sim's info was incorrect

then they had the big throwdown and sim said
shango/shock/checkme should not be believed

after the search produced nothing sim angrily said
"I only report developments ahead of time"

 :2brickwall:

Interesting posts about the blue van and we also had the psychic from Aruba earlier who said natalee was buried with a blue van..What were they trying to tell us about this Blue Van with big speakers? I strongly believe Lorenzo Van Rijn is close to Joran and involved..But is there a chance ydave is right? The problem is there are quite a few others from Aruba who also said Lorenzo is involved or is Jorans half brother.


ydave on June 24th, 2005 11:11 am
Checkme and simian coordinated their story about blue van, and their arrival on this forum, to shift the focus on something else.

But Paul and Joran van der Sloot, and the Kalpoes know where Natalee is. And pressure will be exerted on them to tell the truth.

from various threads at RWV
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/08/page/5/
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

... was talking about her saying someone stayed over at JVDS on night NH went missing
 
i noticed that already Dan, you posted it the other day ...

i don't mind at all ... but as long as it's clear that that's all i know, that he slept over and that he was called to come so that joran can tell him the girl is missing, and that joran told him they didn't sleep together... and trust me joran won't lie to him.
Posted by: Melody | Sunday, August 14, 2005 at 04:06 AM

but lastly - the friend slept over at his house but wasn't out with him, therefor he has no alibi as to his where abouts before he got home.

and i don't know, his friend told me he called him the next day all shocked, that he had something ot tell him, and he told him that the girl went missing. ... that must be before natalee's parents came to him.. and being scared and preparing a story stand logically with pretending to not know she was missing when approached by the parents, makes your story more believable right?
Posted by: Melody | Sunday, August 14, 2005 at 04:26 AM
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Waiting on some additional developments but did want to mention a couple of things.
 
I was able to confirm through another independent party that there was an individual who spent the night at Joran's apartments the night of Natalee Holloway's disappearance - and he has been questioned a number of times.
Friday, August 26, 2005 at 01:18 AM in Natalee Holloway

should this be august 27 @ 1:18AM
but the clock didn't roll over?
not really important except for the fact that
I'm trying to copy in chronological order
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Reports are coming in that Fox is announcing the re-arrest of the Kalpoes and an individual identified as "Freddie." That individual is known to me as a good friend of Joran Van der Sloot who allegedly stayed over at the apartments of Joran on the night of Natalee Holloway's disappearance as previously reported here and first here.

A news conference should be starting at 10 AM EST.

Update: Some sources are now claiming the arrests or interrogations are related to another potential crime with another victim and not the Holloway case. Also, it is being said that there are two boys along with the Kalpoes now at police headquarters. One is said to be an individual identified only as Freddie, at this time - the other is not known.

The two closest friends of Joran Van der Sloot are said to be the Freddie mentioned above and also an individual named Jamie. It's unknown if Jamie has been questioned in the Holloway case, or included in these latest developments.

This post is also available at Blogger News Network
Friday, August 26, 2005 at 10:09 AM in Natalee Holloway

many of us want to know who Freddy is. Was he mentioned in the Natalee case?
Posted by: pamy | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 11:55 AM

Freddy is a good friend of Joran's and slept over Joran's house the night Natalee disappeared
Posted by: Patti | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 12:09 PM

Never knew until today that this Freddy dude slept over Jorans house that night. This is getting good!
Posted by: Daniela | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 12:17 PM

isnt it interesting that Freddy spent the night at Joran's apt. but was not out with them. do you have a friend spend the night but leave them home alone? i bet he did not spend the night, but they brought him into the story later to be an alibi for Joran.
Posted by: pamy | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 01:12 PM

I thought that someone named Max Arend (s) or (z) was the one at Joran's. Is his nickname Freddie? The Kalpoes were arrested in connection with the NH case, PLUS another girl. It is in a release over at SM.
Posted by: Kat_Gram | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 02:50 PM
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Update:
A source has informed me that at 8am this morning the FBI called the Holloway home in Miss. to inform them that they were "re-arresting" both the Kalpoe brothers and an individual named Freddy, a friend of Joran, who goes by the nickname "SA."

The FBI is said to have told them that this happened prior to the call this morning.

The information was apparently later relayed to Rita Cosby of MSNBC in a phone call with Robin Holloway this AM.
Friday, August 26, 2005 at 11:52 AM in Natalee Holloway

I don't know where people are getting Jamie from, It is reported that it was Freddie that was arrested....he was the guy who stayed at Jorans that night and pamy - I read that freddie left early that night, so he may not have been there when natalee and her friends were at c&c but he would have been at Jorans when he got home.
Posted by: aoife24 | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 02:32 PM

If you were on earlier and reading, you would see where 2 others beside the K's were brought in, one being Freddy the guy who spent the nite at Jorans and another. Most were insinuating it was Jaime a friend we've all seen pics of. He looks very much like Lorenzo Van rijn, the son of the suicidal owner of a VW dealership in Aruba. He had the rave party that Nat and the guys supposedly went to. He is well known as a partier yet he had an alibi and was cleared early on. You can go back and find pics of he and Jaime and they look much alike.
Posted by: wawa | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 02:39 PM

... One last thing, pursuant to your post, "If you were on earlier and reading, you would see where 2 others beside the K's were brought ine, one being Freddy...: Most, if not all media on right now (yep, as I type), are not even acknowledging any others that may be in custody.
Posted by: Paulo | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 03:18 PM

Are you sure S.A. isn't really a mexican slang for friend?
Posted by: Pittsburgh | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 03:28 PM

You are absolutely correct; however, to my knowledge the slang is "ese" or "esea" depending on gender. You make a great point! Literally, who knows? So much there is so different than anywhere else!
Posted by: Paulo | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 03:35 PM

Hey, could S.A. really be more like "Essay" I don't know if I spelled it right, but you here a lot of guys call each other that......just a thought
Posted by: jenjeslis | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 03:36 PM

...
does anyone know why freddy was arrested??
...
Posted by: Melody | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 04:03 PM

Gee, now that things are getting HOT, all of the TROLLS come out to play-Melody, Berry et al-seems like your playmates are in big touble. How do you feel about that Melody, er, Anita???
Posted by: chickadee | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 04:14 PM
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

melody was talkin in 150 about a freddy zedan... ask her.
Posted by: goodgirl | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 05:23 PM
 
FOX now talking about the mix up why Greta was told it had nothing to do w/ Holloway & why other reports are saying it it does
Posted by: JailLess1 | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 05:46 PM

so which is it? dan says unrelated
Posted by: wreck | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 05:47 PM

some guy just said that he thinks the 3rd guy was arrested because he had supplied Joran w/ a date rape drug once before...oh I can't tyoe fast it's on now! FOX
Posted by: JailLess1 | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 05:47 PM

their saying they believe that it does have to do w/ Nat & basically saying it's hard to interpet but they feel it does
Posted by: JailLess1 | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 05:49 PM
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

If a possible third suspect arrested is Van der Sloot tennis partner, Freddy Zedan - I've been told his nickname is (FA), not (SA). I'm wondering, if so, if it is phonetically spelled Effa - long A. Based on reports, there is also another last name for a Freddy circulating about and a great deal of the reporting of this arrest seems confused
Friday, August 26, 2005 at 06:15 PM in Natalee Holloway

Could that nickname be Jefe? = Boss
Posted by: RunsWithScissors | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 06:30 PM

most likely, my husband's name is Jeff, and one of his nicknames has been the spanish moniker for "Boss" - pronounced "Heffe" - which sounds like "FA" .... so most likely it is the spanish term for boss, Jefe... or however it's spelled.
Posted by: nightowl | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 06:33 PM

Jossy Mansur and Art Wood have both said it is someone named Arembaschi or Arems. Freddy Zedan may be an entirely different person. Saw video and it looks like Freddy Locoman from the tickle sites. Is that Freddy Zedan?
Posted by: sensible | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 06:59 PM

Regarding the "Jamie/Jaime" that I heard mentioned much earlier on a news report:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:eKial1erBnQJ:www.kingdomfoundation.org/pages/163601/+locoman+aruba&hl=en

quote--
"What, if anything, do frequent Carlos & Charlie's "partyers" like Freddy "Locoman," always well-dressed Colombian Jaime Carrasquilla and other Joran friends have to do with Natalee Holloway's "disappearance?"
Posted by: LornaD | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 08:40 PM

BLACKLAB - About Freddy. I don't know if you know folks on Aruba. Freddy Zedan who played tennis with Joran lived a couple blocks from him, - was he known as jefe - sounds like FA?

Freddy Arendazi? Arenz-something? Is that Locoman?

fox - Atty Helen L: Freddy A has something to do with Deepak's car, involved in gang, rape - whether witness or ?? She cannot say, has no confirmation. She used the term gang rape. Helen said she thinks they'll be held 60 days. I think I like Helen.
Posted by: GrannyToad | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 09:09 PM

quote-- Regarding Dan's Question on "Zedan" --

From what I picked up on "The Darkside" there is a picture there that basically identifies the arrested "Freddie" as:

Locoman Pink, aka Freddy Arambatziz, aka Freddy Arends, aka Freddy Zedan, aka badboy_956

The only thing I can gather from this is that these must all be internet handles....
If, indeed, that the charges against him have to do with "pictures" can you just imagine the wealth of evidence the poliice could get with their search warrants?
Posted by: dreamquestrob | Aug 26, 2005 8:18:41 PM

ohhhhh
uhoh
anyone maybe wonder what Melody really wanted to know what Freddy was arrested for?

Get the warrant. A FORENSICS warrant for the vd Sloot place and wherever else needed.
Posted by: GrannyToad | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 09:38 PM

Finn...Thanks again....now...what can you tell me about the pancayente website? anything, please/  Did you go the the dot.con, or did you flooow a link? Who else's pics did you see at this site other than those related to this case? TIA

So it was Melody...er um Anita... ::MonkeyWink::

YW :cool:

we found pancayente the same time as the tickle sites,
june 2005

don't remember following a link ...
just noticed the pancayente.com banner
across the posted photos/went to the site

looked at, literally, 1000s of photos ...
not sure what you mean re "who else's pics" ... ?

I do remember this:
an american tourist came forward/late summer 2005/?
saying that she/her friends met JvdS at CnC's
and he kept pushing the idea of Cafe Bahia on her ...
saying that they stayed open "after hours"
and he wanted to continue the party over there
(she didn't go for it)

so I checked the Bahia galleries at pancayente
and noticed how different the clientle was
as opposed to CnC's/a few other places:
very ethnic/very few caucasian faces
and a much rougher/thuggish-looking crowd

I kept wondering why he would want
to take this white bread american girl there

then ... found some posts somewhere/?
re full-on sex happening on the dance floor/tables
in front of other patrons at Bahia

jeez, what type of management tolerates THAT
even if it was happening "after hours" ... ?

have we ever known for sure which club
JK2 stopped by quickly on the night in question?
which was mentioned in one of the Kalpoe PVs?

some have thought it was Choose A Name
but Bahia has always been in the back of my mind.
is it on the same side of the street as CnC's
a couple doors down/upstairs ... IIRC?

re Melody/Anita:
was Melody posting on Anita's behalf at some point? ...
not at all familiar w/ RWV/the posters there
so not clear on what that little comment was about

surely the posters there knew each other well
and recognized certain patterns on occasion ...

like robalo33's:
I prefer spending time w/ a woman like you, simian

 :wink:

Thanks Finn for the info on the pic sites...I do recall some of that now. All that is left of the pancayente.com site is references to Sasha's pictures on forums! We have been cheking on who owned the site and such....Vms posted a site for Freddy that had one of Sasha's b'day pics and one of a Honda...2 Pics....Hmmmmm!

I am not sure it was Choose A Name either. Which one was in the Royal Plaza, do you recall?

Tylergirl has been convinced that Anita was sitting next to Melody at times while she was posting, so that bit about Anita jumped out at me.

Again...Thanks for letting me pick at your memory!

Mum,

Stanley Brown owned Pan Cayente. There were lots of other things on that site also though. Sasha's birthday pics were linked from there to a Coppermine photo gallery. I think they just covered the party and posted the pics, similar to the way Hiram's birthday parties are covered...



<snipped>

Stanley started his first company, Multi Media International and initiated Expo Cas 1994. Nowadays, this company, which counts over 45 employees, is very well known for different businesses, amongst others the renowned magazines, On The Air! Aruba Blue Pages, Pan Cayente, Pan Dushi etc.
http://www.arubachamber.com/newsletters/2007-KVK_nummer%201.pdf

Multi Media International's Web Site:
http://www.multimedia.aw/DaviWB/Pagina1.html


MULTI MEDIA INTERNATIONAL N.V.
http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_result.afp?KeyValue=17825


********************

<snipped>

What do I do for the living
For the living I go to school, hang out with my friends, I work for a Youth Magazine which is "Pan Cayente" and I do articles and I take pictures.
http://www.freewebs.com/devilicious_101/aboutme.html

cars/more in context
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/25/natalee-holloway-saturday-june-25/#comments

Saturday June 25
The father of a Dutch teen being held in Natalee Holloway’s disappearance is suspected of being an accessory to a variety of crimes ranging up to premeditated murder, Aruban authorities said Friday.

Paulus van der Sloot, 53, was arrested Thursday in the case. His 17-year-old son, Joran, has been held for more than two weeks.

The senior van der Sloot, a justice official, is suspected of three crimes, said Mariaine Croes, a spokeswoman for the prosecutor’s office. They are: complicity to premeditated murder, complicity to murder and complicity to kidnapping.

On Saturday a Judge is supposed to determine whether Aruban authorities have enough evidence to continue to hold Paul van der Sloot.

The judge must decide whether there is sufficient cause to continue holding the four. Also in custody is a 26-year-old party boat disc jockey.

4:45 pm EDT: UPDATE
Hearings for the 5 suspects being held will be delayed until tomorrow. Fox is now reporting, that there was a problem with a flight from Curacao to Aruba, causing a delay. The hearings will be held tomorrow at 8:30 .

Volunteer rescuers from Texas on Saturday combed Aruba in the latest search for a U.S. teenager from Alabama who disappeared almost a month ago.

Texas EquuSearch is using sniffer dogs on land and sonar in the ocean. The searchers are said to be focusing on “five or six areas of interest” on land.

ydave on June 25th, 2005 12:33 pm
Blackspear,..Then how do you explain Natalee’s body fluid (from dna testing) in one of the cars of PVDS?

CaveCricket on June 25th, 2005 12:36 pm
was the body fluid proven yet? or still hearsay?

ydave on June 25th, 2005 12:39 pm
Natalee’s body fluid found in one of his cars and the inconsistent statements of PVDS are the reason of his arrest.

Blackspeare on June 25th, 2005 12:45 pm
ydave…
I haven’t heard that the finding of body fluids has been confirmed, but in any event, they could have used the vehicle to transport the body to the boat in a secluded area.

Peter on June 25th, 2005 6:44 pm
What is this about body fluids that you’re all talking about??
I thought that DNA testing came up negative for what was found in the car . . . .

Simian on June 25th, 2005 6:47 pm
There are 3 vehicles.

Checkme on June 25th, 2005 6:51 pm
It has always been strange to me that nobody realizes that there have been hundreds of men on the island, americans, partying, adults, all after some booty and NH wondering around on the beach… Who said JvdS was the last to see her? He is the last one we know of…

There is no evidence against the vdSs.

edie on June 25th, 2005 6:52 pm
I did not realize they found body fluids. I thought that had just been a rumor.

Checkme on June 25th, 2005 6:53 pm
fluids were found in the kalpoe’s honda

Checkme on June 25th, 2005 6:55 pm
1. Kalpoe's car
2. vdS Jeep
3. vdS family car

Simian on June 25th, 2005 6:57 pm
The phone call made in the small hours.

edie on June 25th, 2005 6:58 pm
Wow, I did not realize it was in 3 cars. Does anyone know who gave that psychic reading?

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:00 pm
The boy is biting his tongue. It is all chewed up, bloody and sore.

Checkme on June 25th, 2005 7:14 pm
And then the blue van…

Peter on June 25th, 2005 7:21 pm
Help with this. There was body fluid found in three different cars??
And Natalee is the source??? Was this in the news?? I didn’t hear it.

edie on June 25th, 2005 7:22 pm
No Peter, It wasn’t in the news. I think Simian and maybe Checkme are in Aruba. They are the ones I have heard it from.

kristin on June 25th, 2005 7:24 pm
So who is biting his tongue Simian, and about that blue graffiti van….was she in it or something?

kristin on June 25th, 2005 7:26 pm
someone left a message on a travel website, on may 31st, before all of us even knew who natalee even was….and the message was from a woman who’s best friend’s husband went on the trip to aruba with the mountain brook teens, and he ended up having to stay in aruba because “natalee left with a man who ended up being a big time drug dealer and they think they took her to venezuela or something” i will send you all the link…..

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:28 pm
The father is trapped in a legal check mate.
The boy is mutilating his own tongue. He doesn’t want to let the old man down.

Peter on June 25th, 2005 7:28 pm
So, what kind of ‘body fluids’? Blood?

edie on June 25th, 2005 7:29 pm
Someone said her body fluids, but I think they have said it was not blood

kristin on June 25th, 2005 7:29 pm
ashley79
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 35
Birmingham, AL Posted on: 1:37 pm, May 31, 2005 Report inappropriate post

Just wanted to warn everyone:
My best friend and her husband chaperoned a senior trip of 160 kids down to Aruba, and she returned last night. Her husband had to stay b/c they think that one of the girls was kidnapped, and is possibly in Venezuela now. Her parents flew down, and the State Dept., DEA and several other groups are involved now. She left with a guy from Carlos and Charlie’s, and the cops found out that he is a local drug dealer. Just wanted to let everyone know to please stay safe. If anyone in Aruba has any info., please let me know. I should know more later today. Just please say a prayer.

kristin on June 25th, 2005 7:31 pm
now this girl ashley 79 has not been answering anyone’s comments and everyone is trying to get a hold of her. she was asked not to talk to anyone by the feds.

Peter on June 25th, 2005 7:32 pm
Then, if it wasn’t blood then what was it?
And was it confirmed that the ‘body fluid’ is Natalee’s?

KeepHopeAlive on June 25th, 2005 7:32 pm
What did Ashley 79 say before she was told not to say anything more?

scaredshitless on June 25th, 2005 7:35 pm
Kristin, that is certainly SHOCKING news and maybe reason for Natalee’s mother’s hope that she’s alive

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:36 pm
In the other car.

KeepHopeAlive on June 25th, 2005 7:37 pm
From what I’ve heard on here before. If they had to transport her body, they may have been body fluids in the car. When some one loses their life, they lose their bodily fluids also. I hope that’s not what they found though.

edie on June 25th, 2005 7:39 pm
I have heard that also… But why would any idiot transfer a body into 3 different vehicles

Peter on June 25th, 2005 7:41 pm
If there was that MUCH body fluid due to expiration, then that would be cause to criminally charge these clowns, I would think. But who knows in Aruba.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:41 pm
Kalpoes went home. Joran stayed behind. Somebody had to come get him.

kristin on June 25th, 2005 7:42 pm
dad came to get him right simian, and they had natalee’s body with them?

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:44 pm
Not even a confession will help.
One witness is not a witness.
The body is needed.

scaredshitless on June 25th, 2005 7:44 pm
why is simian writing in cryptic blurbs. Is he unable to speak normally?

subdude on June 25th, 2005 7:45 pm
Kristin:
That’s what I’ve been thinking, as well. Dad came to get him and lied to police about it when he was first questioned as witness. I thought I read somewhere that Dad got a cellphone call from son @ about 4:00 a.m.. Anyone know if this is accurate?

Anyone confirm that Croes vehicle, if any, was this blue van, we keep hearing about?

subdude on June 25th, 2005 7:47 pm
Simian:
The “one witness” comment. Is that accurate statement of Aruban law or your opinion on the chance of convicting based on single witness statement?

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:50 pm
Only one piece is missing.

Around the pool the Hindus were told what to say. They did not know why. They were asked to protect the boy. The father was not there, but he knew what to do.

The Hindus thought the girl would reappear.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 7:50 pm
Simian:
Whose pool?

Checkme on June 25th, 2005 7:51 pm
Dad is family, by law he cannot incriminate a family menber as a witness… complicated

Checkme on June 25th, 2005 7:53 pm
gttg… cu ltr.

kristin on June 25th, 2005 7:53 pm
Simian, why can’t you just come out and say everything all at once? The FBI is NOT going to arrest you or anything…you are simply chatting online, and what you are saying is always just an ASSUMPTION, and everyone is entitled to speak their ASSUMPTION, so please lay it on us.

kristin on June 25th, 2005 7:53 pm
checkme why are you leaving

subdude on June 25th, 2005 7:54 pm
Checkme:
Ahhh! And Dad would certainly know how to manipulate the law. But likewise, JVDS can not incriminate Dad. This leaves Croes, if he helped dispose of body, but still no evidence of murder without the body. Looks bleak, if the suspect’s don’t crack.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:54 pm
…unless the package from The Hague says that he is implicated. The evidence has him in a legal checkmate. He cannot deny.

Rachael on June 25th, 2005 7:55 pm
Kristen, Simian always does this. He won’t come out and say everything he makes it complicated.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:56 pm
…they boys met around the pool in Montanja

scaredshitless on June 25th, 2005 7:56 pm
in other words if the forensics come back positive from Holland (THE HAGUE), he is screwed

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:57 pm
Just got info the plane has arrived they are going to the courts

subdude on June 25th, 2005 7:59 pm
Hey ya’ll, easy on Simian> He’s got a source of inside information and he can’t reveal or compromise the investigation, IMO. “Legal checkmate” means Dad has Aruban authorities in legal checkmate without forensic evidence, right?

Would a statement by Croes saying son told me he killed her do it?

Simian on June 25th, 2005 7:59 pm
The fires burned high and bright. Even Saint John denied he knew. The smoke will clear soon. The elder can’t deny. The son can’t talk. He is biting off his tongue. His sore and bloody tongue.

The hope rests on the cowboys finding their own.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 8:01 pm
The Simian is leaving. There’s a doppelganger.

kristin on June 25th, 2005 8:02 pm
what?

subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:02 pm
Simian: Why can’t Dad deny?

Rachael on June 25th, 2005 8:03 pm
Simian don’t leave. What is a doppelganger?

kristin on June 25th, 2005 8:04 pm
it means twin, or double

subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:04 pm
A ghostly double of a living person, especially one that haunts its fleshly counterpart.

Rachael on June 25th, 2005 8:05 pm
what does he mean by saying doppelganger, I mean what is he hinting towards or referring to?

kristin on June 25th, 2005 8:06 pm
simian, what do you think of lorenzo having SOMETHING to do with this?????

Rachael on June 25th, 2005 8:06 pm
Kristen who is Lorenzo?

subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:06 pm
Rachel: I think he means there is an impostor on the thread.

kristin on June 25th, 2005 8:06 pm
simian knows who he is. see if he’ll say

subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:09 pm
Lorenzo = some talk about a fifth (at the time), now 6th after the arrest of Dad, person involved and to be arrested. Nothing has come of it yet. If not mistaken, Lorenzo allegedly owned a crazy-painted van or house and thought was NH may have been at his house at some point.

Yolande on June 25th, 2005 8:10 pm
How come it seems that four people can lie very well. Are they innocent? Or did they already confess and are police just waiting to find the body to be 100% sure?

edie on June 25th, 2005 8:11 pm
Oh I remember. Didn't he have a van?

edie on June 25th, 2005 8:11 pm
I don’t think for one minute they confessed.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:12 pm
Yolande: If you mean same story, Simian is telling us that the 2 Kalpoes and 2 VDS met around a pool in Montana to get stories straight. Whose house in Montana? I can check past articles to find out, if no one knows off top of head.

edie on June 25th, 2005 8:13 pm
I don’t know but simian has been saying that for days

subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:19 pm
Simian doesn’t seem to be saying anyone confessed to the murder. Just that it has come out there was a meeting around the pool to get the stories straight and Kalpoes did not know why the story needed to be told, but went along. Seems very naive of them, but VDS were influential, as I understand it.

Neither VDS told Kalpoes why the story so they did not become witnesses to VDS’ confession who could testify against VDS’ later on. Could only say truthfully that they were asked to lie and did so.

Even if VDS’ admit to disposing of body, does not prove murder — just that she died. VDS’ could say they don’t know how, just died and they got rid of body.

Without body, can’t prove cause of death. This is probably the “only one piece of puzzle missing” Simian is referring to.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 8:21 pm
The Simian knows the Babylonians. They need to plan the legal checkmate perfectly. They know that the elder knows his way around the palace. All gates need to be shut.

The Hindus don’t know that the elder knows what happened. The though they did the boy a favor by protecting him. The Hindus don’t know what happened.

The cowboys gave themselves 10 days. One down.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:24 pm
If Simian is accurate, this was a clever legal scheme to avoid prosecution by PVDS and protect his son from same. Does anyone know if Aruban law provides 100% inter-family testimonial immunity? In US, most states have similar inter-spousal immunity. Spouse can not be compelled to testify against spouse. However, spouse can chose to testify against spouse. This is probably why police are leanding hard on JVDS
PVDS would know all of this as a judge in training.

edie on June 25th, 2005 8:25 pm
Almost the perfect crime?

subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:26 pm
Edie: The “Hindus” are the Kalpoes from Surinam and practice Hindu religion, I believe. Mrs Kalpoe made reference to Hindu altar in her home on Greta interview.

Aruban police are trying to get around PVDS mastermind scheme to avoid prosecution and have son do same by hiding behind the privilege of not being able to be compelled to testify against another family member.

But, per Simian, there is a wrinkle.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:27 pm
Simian: Do VDS live in Montana?

Simian on June 25th, 2005 8:34 pm
Montanja. Noord. Aruba.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 8:37 pm
What does the music man know? He was seen. He was mentioned by the boy.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:37 pm
Simian: Last clue re: Babylonians was your best so far. Babylonian culture is known for Hammurabi, among other things. He was the sixth king of this dynasty was Hammurabi (1792-1750 BC) who made Babylon the capital of a vast empire and is best remembered for his code of laws. (Ask Jeeves)

Simian’s Babylonians (sounds nice, huh?) are the Aruban authorities. PVDS knows his way “around the palace” of law, so the Aruban police have to set him up to get around the freedom from testifying between JVDS and PVDS.

Well done, Simiam. Had to look up the Babylonian reference.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:38 pm
The meeting at the pool to get the stories straight was at the VDS home. Momma VDS was in Holland so knows nothing. Kalpoes have probably come clean about the meeting which shows guilty mind of VDS.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 8:41 pm
The boy is biting off his own tongue. The Babylonians are stunned. What possesses such a boy?

Most federales have left. The puzzle is nearly done. The one piece is missing. They need the cowboys help.

kristin on June 25th, 2005 8:44 pm
i really thought she would be found alive…held captive somewhere starving to death. does a lorenzo have anything to do with this simian? please answer me that. please.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:44 pm
Simian: Music man = Croes, the D-jay. You are good.

Seems under Dutch law, a confession from extensive interrogation (10+ hours per day, sometimes) is admissible. In states, we would try to have kept out of evidence as involuntary. Could confession from interrogation only (no beating), from JVDS, for instance, be used against him and PVDS?

kristin on June 25th, 2005 8:46 pm
the music man knows where her body is

subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:47 pm
JVDS is literally mutilating his own tongue so he can’t speak to confess. This is taking on tones of a classic Greek tragedy. But Babylonians can ask him yes or no questions and he can gesture. He’s going to break. All they need is the body.

Has JVDS given clues to its whereabouts?

subdude on June 25th, 2005 8:55 pm
Cowboys are the search team from Texas. For non US, Texas is famous state for cowboys. In fact, one of their pro football teams is named Cowboys. Simian’s good.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 8:57 pm
The Babylonians might release the Hindus.

The boy knows his father knows the way. He’s been inside the palace for many years. It has worked before. This time too much is at stake. This time there was someone there to hear the tree fall.

The music man is singing. The Simian can’t understand the words.

A bloody tongue is a bloody tongue. Swollen and thick. This boy is lost.

kristin on June 25th, 2005 9:05 pm
so do you think steve helped dump her body? like they said before?

kristin on June 25th, 2005 9:05 pm
simian, lorenzo??????????????????

Kristin-in-SC on June 25th, 2005 9:05 pm
I see there is another Kristin here so I will change my name here to avoid confusion. Hello kristin.

kristin on June 25th, 2005 9:06 pm
hi kristin, i heard that too….that she was being kept in a van or something (with a large speaker in back, right simian?)

edie on June 25th, 2005 9:07 pm
yes! I think steve dumped the body I think papa vandersloot some how convinced him to.

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:08 pm
To my faithful believers:

This may be my last post. But I’ll tell you what’s going on. The younger VDS did it. No admission of guilt yet, but witnesses to prove. Awaiting DNA results to confirm will be soon. Two more possible arrests. DJ was the “Vessel”. Sorry for cryptic message, but my job is on the line. Still I remain true to you bloggers and the truth shall set us free. A mystery is only as mysterious as the mind allows it to be. Sometimes the truth is right in front of your face …

DanMar on June 25th, 2005 9:09 pm
The ape who is a wolf is here to disinform.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 9:12 pm
Shock: Thanks . . . well, you know what I mean:) Same thing Simian seems to be saying.

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:14 pm
If you’ve seen the evidence and live here, you would draw the same conclusions …

kristin on June 25th, 2005 9:15 pm
shock, where do you think the body is? are divers going to find it?

Simian on June 25th, 2005 9:16 pm
The new hammer and block could not island hop. The Babylonians can’t keep the gates shut forever. The days are 116 and they each have a number.

The Babylonians can’t use the whip on the boy. A elder is playing mute. If he doesn’t know, why did he heed the call?

The music man is singing. His song is not on the bill. One witness is not a witness.

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:16 pm
could arrive with new judge… plane was delayed… may have been the reason … hand delivering the DNA results …

subdude on June 25th, 2005 9:19 pm
Simian: Can’t prove murder without a body unless you have two corroborating statements, right?

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:19 pm
Sim, you working tonight?

kristin on June 25th, 2005 9:20 pm
i believe we’ll see lorenzo arrested tonight or tomorrow.

edie on June 25th, 2005 9:22 pm
his song is not on the bill?

DanMar on June 25th, 2005 9:22 pm
o what tangled webs we weave. a trojan horse has left smoke and mirrors.

kristin on June 25th, 2005 9:23 pm
i just heard a police chief and friend of PVDS is involved and will be arrested? simian? shock?

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:23 pm
who’s to say there was a trojan horse? There are other forms …

edie on June 25th, 2005 9:23 pm
where did you hear that Kristen?

kristin on June 25th, 2005 9:24 pm
someone from aruba, different website

someone break down the code talk, i’m losing it over here

subdude on June 25th, 2005 9:24 pm
Edie:
Without two witnesses saying same thing, can’t prove murder unless have the body. “One witness is not a witness”. Not sure if this is accurate legal statement, but I think this is what “Monkeys” mean.

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:24 pm
kristin .. i can not comment. But I told you two more arrests.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 9:26 pm
Kristin:
Police chief and Lorenzo would be two more witnesses.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 9:26 pm
The Babylonians gave free reign to the cowboys for a reason.

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:27 pm
The one with the longest legs begs …

kristin on June 25th, 2005 9:27 pm
do the birmingham parents know? do they know this shock?

DanMar on June 25th, 2005 9:28 pm
the scorned ones have won the prize. details at eleven.

DanMar on June 25th, 2005 9:29 pm
monkeys no

subdude on June 25th, 2005 9:29 pm
Guys, Croes has given it up and told he knows about the murder and body dump. One witness is not enough. The police need a second witness or the body. Lorenzo or police chief would be enough or the body. Body is always better and police don’t know if either of these new witnesses will confirm Croes. I think this is what is up.

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:29 pm
have you noticed you haven’t seen Mrs. Twitty lately? The last time you did, did you notice her sorrow? That should answer your question Kristin.

edie on June 25th, 2005 9:29 pm
they are getting out @11?

Simian on June 25th, 2005 9:32 pm
The Babylonians hands are not dirty.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 9:33 pm
edie:
Details @ 11 means watch the news. JVDS confessed. The “scorned ones” are the Aruban authorities who have been so heavily criticized for the investigation. I’d be having fun if I weren’t so damn sad:(

subdude on June 25th, 2005 9:34 pm
DanMar: In Aruba?

DanMar on June 25th, 2005 9:35 pm
iowa, i just work in outer space

chimes on June 25th, 2005 9:36 pm
Those with the noses, you know who you are, thank you for all the translations. The recent OTR interviews with Mama VDS and Mama Kalpoe offered much insight. Remember, one of the Kalpoe brother’s stated “something bad happened.”

Lily on June 25th, 2005 9:39 pm
CAN SOMEBODY TELL ME IF THIS WAS THE INFORMATION IN THE CODE PLEASE??????????????

OK, somebody, so steve croes witnessed what happened, joran did the terrible thing, the siramese brothers are innocent bistanders, and the father helped cover things up, so now joran won’t talk cuz he doesn’t want to get his dad in trouble. Joran has been in trouble before, his dad covered him then too, so pvds is in trouble, and joran is too??? Is this the code that Sim. is talking about? Oh and the arubans know everything, but there will be no case without a body???

edie on June 25th, 2005 9:39 pm
pretty much

kristin on June 25th, 2005 9:40 pm
i knew they called the texans in because they KNEW they were looking for her body in the ocean. man. i can’t believe it’s really come to an end.

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:40 pm
Yes, something bad did happened. But it was an accident, it wasn’t meant to happen … as it did not happen on the beach as assumed, rather, it was in a house.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 9:43 pm
Shock:
If accident, why all this craziness?

Peter on June 25th, 2005 9:44 pm
ShocktheMonkey,
How do you know she died in a house??

My wife said the same thing to me last night, and she thinks it actually happened in Joran’s apratment off the side of the Van Der Sloot house.

Lily on June 25th, 2005 9:45 pm
OK, well is this more speculation or does somebody really know this for real?

subdude on June 25th, 2005 9:45 pm
edie: Got the link to the psychic thing?

Simian on June 25th, 2005 9:46 pm
The Hindus are not completely clean, but the Babylonians need them.

The are only so many halls in the palace. The gates are shutting down, but they need to be kept shut.

Checkmate is in place, but the game is not over yet.

kristin on June 25th, 2005 9:46 pm
lily its for real
seriously, these guys have been right on the whole time. about everything.

edie on June 25th, 2005 9:47 pm
Found a cache of the original
UPDATE 6/15/05

[NOTE FROM THE MIRACLIST. This is the information I received when asking about the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Sometimes I am wrong as you can see from the past prediction archive. The correct way to approach the use of psychics in a case is to ask four or five psychics to read and look for a common thread then mix it with hard detective work and evidence so resources are not wasted on one person’s leads. The most well known psychic can be wrong on a case but a group of psychics from different backgrounds and locales usually are not. These are excerpts from a longer,
more detailed reading. I would encourage other psychics to post their findings as well.]

HS 06/04/05

Q: I would like to do a reading on the disappearance of Natalee Holloway on the island of Aruba. Please give me something to bring some closure for those who are grieving.
These girls' freeing summer fun turned tragic when Natalee made a grievous error in judgment that ultimately cost her life…Natalee wanted to meet some new people and went with a handsome-enough local man to a party away from the group. When she received the invitation, she was surprised and honored (flattered) to be selected as she had previously experienced damage to her self esteem at the competitive high school filled with attractive girls… So that night she had a drink and felt uninhibited. When asked to leave with a promise to return before the others left the bar, she accepted. She immediately knew she had made a mistake in getting in the small car (maybe a Toyota-looking car). Two other men came along and that frightened her. They drove left after exiting the bar through the town and began the ascent on a hilly, curving street…They arrived at a nice house that overlooks the town to a certain degree (not too high)… She was drugged with a local ecstasy substitute…The other men left and she hardly noticed…The white male repeatedly raped her. She was innocent to some of this and became hysterical. She was so out of control that he strangled her with his bare hands…The white male was so confident he would not be caught; her clothes were put in the local trash bin for pick up in front of the house…So Natalee was taken on the fishing boat out to sea by someone who knew the white male and was called at about 3:30AM… The boat has blue somewhat scrolled writing on the back . It lists or slants in the water to the left somewhat when viewed from behind as it sits in the water at the public marina… a local man drove the boat straight out from the marina at about 35 mph for 32 minutes…he weighted and pushed her body overboard …Natalee has found some peace after the traumatic act. She is deeply regretful about the agony it is causing everyone (especially her mother) but what is done is done. Her body may never be found.

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:48 pm
A substance was given to victim without knowledge. Substance served purpose … victim came to … suspect panics .. in an attempt to quiet victim, “something bad happens”

subdude on June 25th, 2005 9:49 pm
edie: Thanks and that’s frightenting.

edie on June 25th, 2005 9:50 pm
Shock-
Did the psychic nail it on the head?

edie on June 25th, 2005 9:51 pm
Subdude-
I know! That is why when simian and shock are speaking I am believing.

Peter on June 25th, 2005 9:52 pm
And they got rid of the body because they felt omnipotent. Another dipshit American chick. Dime a dozen, right? Then Mr. and Mrs. Holloway show up. Papa Van Der Sloot gets pissy. “How dare they, those ill-mannered Americans”, along with the Who-do-they-think-they-are routine. That’s when Joran’s useless father tried to stare down Mrs. Holloway. Brave boy.

They thought it was going to be easy, didn’t they??

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:52 pm
Lily we are working 24 hrs to bring this to a resolution.

kristin on June 25th, 2005 9:53 pm
this explains why greta went home for a few days, why nat’s mom hasn’t been seen (prob in hotel room balling her eyes out) and why rescue team is there.

one more thing, how was this pre-meditated? and did they plan this BEFORE nat even came to aruba…knowing she was from a rich family and all that, or no? shock?

Simian on June 25th, 2005 9:55 pm
Some alibis need to be broken.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 9:55 pm
Peter: Bingo, again!

Shock: However, on the accident thing. JVDS may be the only one who knows if accident or he strangled her. May not be pre-meditated, but still murder. “I didn’t mean to kill her, just wanted her to be quiet” = let the judge decide what he intended

kristin on June 25th, 2005 9:56 pm
ok, also…what was the purpose of drugging her and raping her? dont you think she would have slept with VDS without having to be DRUGGED??? shock?

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 9:59 pm
No that’s not what it means Kristin. Premeditated requires planning. This was an accident perpetuated by a mallace act. It’s what happened after, that was premeditated …

subdude on June 25th, 2005 10:01 pm
DanMar: federales?

DanMar on June 25th, 2005 10:02 pm
monkees r monkees - no more

subdude on June 25th, 2005 10:03 pm
Capiche

Lily on June 25th, 2005 10:03 pm
Psychics charge you to have a “reading”. Everybody has had some kind of deja vu, or dreamt of something before it happened. If there are psychics, then there are witches, and goblins, and demons too.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 10:04 pm
Et tu, Mr. Mar

Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:06 pm
There is a whisperer on the line. The sword of Damocles will soon fall. I can’t say whose on the throne.

Did he think he could rule forever from his hideaway?

All along the gamblers knew who he was.

Kristin-in-SC on June 25th, 2005 10:10 pm
I too have been a victim of being drugged at a bar. One moment I’m with my friends and the next thing I know I wake up at home, splitting headache and no knowledge of leaving or even going home. Friends said I had left with someone so I was lucky. This should be an important lesson for all women, *always* keep your drink in hand, do not accept a drink from someone you do not know unless the bartender hands it to you, and never allow friends to leave alone with strangers.

chimes on June 25th, 2005 10:11 pm
Damocles: Greek courtier to Dionysius the Elder, tyrant of Syracuse, who according to legend was forced to sit at a banquet table under a sword suspended by a single hair to demonstrate the precariousness of a king’s fortunes.

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 10:13 pm
kristin … watch the bartender pour your drink

Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:14 pm
The Babylonians cared only for their gold and did not hear the Sumerians plot their demise. In the morning, at the point it was realized, it was too late.

Lily on June 25th, 2005 10:16 pm
Ok, so the judge coming from holland is going to be the one to bring justice.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:16 pm
Again, the Simian has a doppelganger.
Can’t compromise the whisperer on the line.
Signing off.

subdude on June 25th, 2005 10:18 pm
Lily: Can’t go with you on that one. But witches, psychics, same idea in my mind. Do you have any impressions about anything right now? Take a chance and share.

Lily on June 25th, 2005 10:19 pm
I believe it’s a tap on his computer, and with the information being given out he has to get off before they can track him.

edie on June 25th, 2005 10:26 pm
Does anyone know if we will still get the info @11

Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:28 pm
The Simian is sorry, but as long as there are impersonators there will be no more clues.

Lily on June 25th, 2005 10:30 pm
Simian?????????

subdude on June 25th, 2005 10:33 pm
edie:
This one’s more difficult, but I think he means that the Aruban police chief (Babylonians) cared only for the possible effect the NH incident would have on tourism and local economy. Sword of Damocles reference is sense of impending doom in one with power, police chief perhaps.

Did he think he could rule forever from hideaway, all gamblers knew who he was — I’m thinking again police chief or even Prime Minister.

edie on June 25th, 2005 10:48 pm
I am still waiting to see if there will be new info @11 simian shock?

subdude on June 25th, 2005 10:49 pm
edie: Any news? No TV, here

edie on June 25th, 2005 10:50 pm
No, Geraldo interviewing people. Same as always speculation of what happened. Papa is not cooperating.

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 11:01 pm
edie … it’s a rumor… no arrests at 11

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 11:04 pm
New news comes to those who wait … Be patient!

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 11:12 pm
Tomorrow, we’re searching the waters …

Ragalee on June 25th, 2005 11:14 pm
Ok, I know this is going to get on everyone’s nerves b/c I am sure it has been explained before. so sorry in advance…. Shock, who are you? Why do you know so much? What do you mean by “we” are searching the waters? What am I missing?

subdude on June 25th, 2005 11:18 pm
Ragalee: I don’t think Shock can answer those questions without jeapordizing her/himself.

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 11:18 pm
I am on the island and am involved in the matter (I can not disclose how I am involved). I am blogging to keep you informed as this case has captured the world.

Ragalee on June 25th, 2005 11:20 pm
Shock: I understand. Good luck to you and the others involved in the matter!

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 11:21 pm
Only doing my job. But thank you guys anyway.

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 11:25 pm
You will wake up with news tomorrow morning … can’t elaborate, so please don’t ask.

T K on June 25th, 2005 11:26 pm
And if we wake up to no factual news tomorrow what will be your comments then “Shock”?

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 11:27 pm
It won’t happen T K.

edie on June 25th, 2005 11:28 pm
TK-
Shock is reliable

subdude on June 25th, 2005 11:29 pm
TK: Ditto on edie’s opinion

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 11:32 pm
If you need clarification or confirmation, I was the one who told in crypt that “DADDY VDS” would be arrested by simply stating “the PIMPle is about to pop”…

Maya99 on June 25th, 2005 11:33 pm
I think Shock means he judge from Carasau (sp.?) is bringing the dna evidence from the Hague tomorrow, and then they will be charged at the hearing. Am I warm?

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 11:35 pm
Quite possible, however …..

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 11:39 pm
Let me go prepare for your morning news ….. Good night all!

Ragalee on June 25th, 2005 11:40 pm
Shock, after it is all over, will you reveal your identity and position?

subdude on June 25th, 2005 11:40 pm
I think Shock is in the news biz and has confidential sources. “Just doing my job”

ShocktheMonkey on June 25th, 2005 11:44 pm
Ragalee:

No

Sub:

No

aware on June 26th, 2005 12:04 am
A comment totally ignored (not heard) on the Geraldo show this evening (Sat June 25)

Someone was being interviewed by Geraldo… he said he knew Mr Paulos VDS (dad) as he had recently come to him asking what position he was qualified for, as his application to be a judge was REJECTED!

No wonder this man is sweating..his world is falling apart!

The big question? WHY? Was there anything found in his background that would preclude him from being a judge (slimy connections with porn, slave trade,illegal gambling, etc etc). It is obvious he was above the law in boldly allowing his underage son to drink, gamble and drive on the island.. There must be powers that protected him…WHY>? Who is checking this …?

aware on June 26th, 2005 12:57 am
..so papa VDS also a pimp.. drug war lord,etc…. either mom is in denial, blind, or accepting of all….

I do hope Slmian /others correct in foresight.. re Sunday am in Aruba… I have always wondered if the body was not found when it was leaked weeks ago? Also wondered if the Police/Official who stated “I can not do that..he is my best friends son” has been ferrying information between papa and Joran…. a seemingly very corrupt gang of elevated hoodlums…. Agree, Mrs Twitty was not in her hopeful mood on Geraldo… her face was very taut… Mr Twitty was angered..his body language..hands on hips the entire time…

the following day, a new poster appears
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

The Bus Driver on June 26th, 2005 11:08 am
Where is the news that was supposed to break this morning?

AllyinMiami on June 26th, 2005 11:32 am
Simian, por favor, dejame saber cuando estas aqui…Me tengo que ir en un poco a celebrar mis cumpleanos……

Lucy and Check me: Thank you very much for the birthday wishes-No hard feelings, checkme-I still am incredibly grateful to you and I think you are a very sweet person and your kindness is infectious.

Subdude: I read your analysis last night…your insight is unbelievable

subdude on June 26th, 2005 11:53 am
If info from Shock, Simian, DanMar and Checkme is accurate, and so far it has proven pretty reliable on those things that can be confirmed, the Aruban interrogators are exceptionally good.

First rule of interrogation — separate the suspects, grill them relentessly and compare stories. Done here.

Second — gather corroborating evidence — cell phone records, security video, witness statements, conduct surveillance. Done here.

Third — Ramp up the pressure. Move them prison from jail, let suspects get a taste of the future if no cooperattion. Done here with move to KIA.

Fourth — If suspect won’t talk, make consequences other than to himself. Done here, with arrest of JVDS’ father.

Fifth rule — Repeat 1 - 4 relentlessly. Done here.

They are very good. My only semi-concern is not moving on the forensic evidence immediately.

Under Aruban law, authorities can interrogate suspects day in and day out for up to 116 days if they meet certain milestones of showing reason to continue. No contact with lawyer or other outside witnesses. 116 days is a long, long time by our standards.

In America, once a suspect “lawyers up”, no interrogation and access must be given to lawyer. Suspect gets a psychological “break”. A confession gained under Aruban techniques would not be admissible in American courts because we would call it “coerced”, in MHO.

I am frustrated, like you. But the Aruban’s interrogation techniques are very impressive to me.

Stay tuned for more from the “Monkeys”, checkme, DanMar. There information is very specific and appears consistent with Aruban law of proof, in my extremely limited knowledge. I am going to hunt around US law today on rules for proving murder without body based on witness statements.

Maya99 on June 26th, 2005 12:09 pm
Just heard that the court is finished with JVDS’s hearing. Four to go. No word on the court’s conclusion.

san on June 26th, 2005 12:22 pm
It was said on Gerald last night that the father did not get the position as judge. He was told before his arrest. Gee I wonder why?

Yolande on June 26th, 2005 12:27 pm
The father studied for judge in Netherlands [three months ago he was still in NL] but he didnt pass the test.

Vanessa on June 26th, 2005 12:35 pm
Kris, I was reading the posts from late last night; did you notice where shock said “we’re” checking the ocean tomorrow? Maybe he/she is with the Texas search team.

Maya99 on June 26th, 2005 12:36 pm
The father met with the minister of justice a week before Natalee’s disappearance to discuss what kind of work he could do since he wasn’t going to be a judge.

Vanessa on June 26th, 2005 12:38 pm
What about the statement the PM made during that interview about his belief that Paulus was arrested to put the pressure on the son for a confession?

ydave on June 26th, 2005 12:45 pm
I don’t understand how you can hold someone in order to make his son tell the truth. It makes no sense to me to deprive someone of his freedom for no other reason than to make his son tell the truth.

Paulus is a criminal. Telephone communication between Paulus and his son in the middle of the night of May 30th indicate he was aware of what happened, and rushed to the site of the crime to help his son. Conflicting statements he gave to investigators are reasonable suspicions to hold him and get him to tell the truth.

chimes on June 26th, 2005 12:45 pm
Per Yolande, PVDS did not pass the test.

Maya99 on June 26th, 2005 12:52 pm
Report just in that some of the five might be released, and that Joran and Deepak will not be. They may be recessing for the day. All unconfirmed as per Geraldo.

Yolande on June 26th, 2005 12:55 pm
The only problem: its in Dutch

Maya99 on June 26th, 2005 1:10 pm
Thanks, Yolande. How about the pic of Steve Croes that reads “Bro from Aruba, Best and Craziest Car Driver I have ever met.” Blue van? Or is the blue van Lorenzo’s?

Maya99 on June 26th, 2005 1:16 pm
Just in: Steve Croes’ lawyer just said he will be released tomorrow at 1:00pm.

Checkme on June 26th, 2005 1:20 pm
Yes, maya, it’s vanRijn’s van.

chimes on June 26th, 2005 1:24 pm
From 1188’s thread… ShocktheMonkey Says:
June 25th, 2005 at 9:08 pm
To my faithful believers:

This may be my last post. But I’ll tell you what’s going on. The younger VDS did it. No admission of guilt yet, but witnesses to prove. Awaiting DNA results to confirm will be soon. Two more possible arrests. DJ was the “Vessel”. Sorry for cryptic message, but my job is on the line. Still I remain true to you bloggers and the truth shall set us free. A mystery is only as mysterious as the mind allows it to be. Sometimes the truth is right in front of your face …

Checkme on June 26th, 2005 1:24 pm
It’s incredible that minister Croes said what he did about senior vdS’s detention… This proved again that there is no evidence of the vdS’s harming NH.

Maya99 on June 26th, 2005 1:29 pm
Checkme: you’re back! What do you think of Shock’s post above?

Checkme on June 26th, 2005 1:31 pm
Maya, I think it says enough on it’s own account.

Checkme on June 26th, 2005 1:36 pm
gttg people, cu ltr…

Maya99 on June 26th, 2005 1:42 pm
BTW the prosector wanted to keep Croes for another 8 days, but it sounds like becuz he had already been held so long (the first round of 8 days), his attorney was able to argue there was not enough evidence to hold him for another 8 days and the judge agreed. Senior, on the other hand, was still on his first 8 days, so they can keep him longer.

max on June 26th, 2005 2:35 pm
is this happening now in live time. dont know how it all works yet? they just reported croes will go free tomorrow.

edie on June 26th, 2005 2:48 pm
Any word on the fate of the other 4? I was waiting on the news this morning… The news that shock hinted about last night.. shock could not have meant croes would get out because he would not have known that.

Yolande on June 26th, 2005 2:50 pm
Shock mentioned two more arrests .. where are they?

edie on June 26th, 2005 2:52 pm
Who knows… Where is Simian?

max on June 26th, 2005 2:57 pm
It looks to me like one piece of the puzzle is gone or else they are releasing him because he is going to testify against the others. They said on fox that it was lack of evidence. Why are they delaying til tomorrow at 1:00 if he is found not to be culpable then should be released immediately . Wow ! Have they already evaluated the others and decided to hold them or are they still in progress?

edie on June 26th, 2005 2:57 pm
I don’t know what to think… I thought Steve was the “music man” and that he was singing. If he was singing, they wouldn’t have let him go would they?

Simian on June 26th, 2005 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.

edie on June 26th, 2005 3:00 pm
Ok I remember you saying this but I need some elaboration. Does that mean one witness will not do or nothing he said had to do with the investigation… I know you cant tell us so I guess we will see.

Shango on June 26th, 2005 3:09 pm
Simian,
who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….

Simian on June 26th, 2005 3:10 pm
The last hope rests on the shoulders of the cowboys. Ten days, two down, eight to go.
The elder knows the passages in the palace too well. The Babylonians are afraid they might not be able to stop him.

Don’t shake the wire, ’cause the bird will fly away.

Shango on June 26th, 2005 3:10 pm
Simian,
older PVDS had one or two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?

Shango on June 26th, 2005 3:14 pm
Simian,
The Sumerians do not like the Babylonian intrusion.
The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….

marg on June 26th, 2005 3:14 pm
so much for all those who said that one of the brothers will be released. Croes will be let out tomorrow at 1pm. So who took her out in the boat then? What is going on ppl.

Simian on June 26th, 2005 3:18 pm
Shock means well. He understands the Babylonians, but they don’t hold the hammer nor the block.

The alibi needs to be broken. The party-go-ers need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes. The house was dusted.

max on June 26th, 2005 3:18 pm
Simian what happens after 10 days, they’ve searched for 2. Will they have to release them then?

Shango on June 26th, 2005 3:18 pm
Simian,
why was the key from the Babylons Palace not used to open the Sumerians Door?

They have become famished and Eden is beckoning….

edie on June 26th, 2005 3:26 pm
simian does not answer questions

Shango on June 26th, 2005 3:26 pm
Simian,
his lordship did not bring the expected key

the door never existed

Eden is distant

max on June 26th, 2005 3:29 pm
I see. It's like talking to nostradamas. I'm new here. Thank you.

Shango on June 26th, 2005 3:30 pm
Simian,
his lordship did not bring the key for the Arawaks

So it will remain “cowboys and indians”

The posse was too late

Simian on June 26th, 2005 3:31 pm
The Babylonians don’t hold the hammer nor the block. They are running out of options.

Kristin-in-SC on June 26th, 2005 3:32 pm
PVDS Waived his right NOT to testify against his son. WTH?

Shango on June 26th, 2005 3:33 pm
Simian

His Lordship did not bring the key found in the car, it did not exist

The arawaks can’t open the door

Hope lies with the cowboys,

but the posse was too late

Eden is still distant

Shango on June 26th, 2005 3:37 pm
Why don’t the Arawaks play the Babylonian Card ?

The posse is far from the fort and the loot is gone

The indians can’t count on the cowboys

The arawaks need to audition the singing card

kristin on June 26th, 2005 3:37 pm
so much for JVDS’s confession being on last night at 11. Not true.

edie on June 26th, 2005 3:38 pm
Yeah, that was just a rumor.

edie on June 26th, 2005 3:39 pm
For some reason I am getting the feeling that there was no dna evidence

Shango on June 26th, 2005 3:40 pm
The key does not exist

The Arawaks knew Babylonian involvement would prove futile

That is why the cowboys left the fort and a searching with the indians

edie on June 26th, 2005 3:41 pm
Shango-
Are you in Aruba?

Shango on June 26th, 2005 3:43 pm
The fallen judge agreed to sing because he can hum any tune

He needs to sing for his son, or see the end of his babylonian offspring

Shango on June 26th, 2005 3:45 pm
Shango is not limited to any location, orixas are his messengers

max on June 26th, 2005 3:46 pm
Are you hearing the latest on right now. They say paul vds has waived his right to not testify against his son

kristin on June 26th, 2005 3:46 pm
i just heard that natalee is dead, and joran is being charged with murder and the dad is testifying against me

kristin on June 26th, 2005 3:48 pm
against HIM. sorry

kristin on June 26th, 2005 3:49 pm
going to watch tv, bye

Shango on June 26th, 2005 3:49 pm
Elder needs to sing to preserve his lineage

To agree to remain silent is to agree not to hum any tune

The Arawaks are desperate, they fear for the tribe, they do not want war with the cowboys

But the loot remains hidden

And the Arawaks keep their singing card hidden as well

The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

marg on June 26th, 2005 3:54 pm
kristin where did u hear that Natalee is dead?

Shango on June 26th, 2005 3:57 pm
The Arawaks may not need to play the singing card

The cowboys won’t hear the music and the teepees will be safe

Wampum is needed as the doors closed on Eden

max on June 26th, 2005 3:57 pm
yea kristin i thought you were joking cause you put me, instead of him. What channel are you watching

edie on June 26th, 2005 4:01 pm
Fox news is talking about it. They said they have to wait until 8 tonight if they will hold papa or not

Simian on June 26th, 2005 4:04 pm
The wire has been shaken. The bird has left.

max on June 26th, 2005 4:06 pm
So now they say they will decide by 8 tonight whether or not to release paulus. This explains the ploy of giving up his right to testify against his son. I am still thinking he is guilty for sure. I dont know if I can ever shake that . It would certainly be hard to get a jury. But they dont use juries. Only one man decides the whole enchilada. I suspect they will find it hard to justify holding sr vds now. I dont like the way this is playing out. But if he is innocent then what? Hope they will find Natalee.

Simian on June 26th, 2005 4:11 pm
The system is built so that the innocent are always protected. One shred of doubt is enough to throw a case out.

Shango on June 26th, 2005 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory

The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon

The Arawaks keep the singing card

One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough

His lordships presence guarantees a trio

The key to edens door did not exist

The refrain has already begun

Shango on June 26th, 2005 4:14 pm
Simian your Dopple has resumed position

Bird on the wire

Shango on June 26th, 2005 4:16 pm
You must remember

The Arawaks placed singing beetles with the Babylonian and the two Shivas
They were never alone

edie on June 26th, 2005 4:17 pm
Yeah but were they stupid enough to sing

Shango on June 26th, 2005 4:22 pm
Because the fallen judge agreed, he can sing any song he wants

A poisonous siren in the halls of babylon

He will sing to keep doors open, much to the cowboys distress

kristin on June 26th, 2005 4:22 pm
he’s not going to tell them where the body is

edie on June 26th, 2005 4:26 pm
Now its all up to the texans

Shango on June 26th, 2005 4:26 pm
The maze of Babylon is very difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent

The Arawaks cannot reveal their singing card

many teepees would be destroyed and the cowboys would get upset

the singing card is bad luck for wampum for many moons

So there must be some type of sacrifice

The gods are hungry, the cowboys are hungry

Great disruption in the halls of babylonian palace

max on June 26th, 2005 4:28 pm
Then even if she's found nobody knows if it’ll prove anything. so long in the water. Looks like they will walk doesn't it.

Shango on June 26th, 2005 4:29 pm
There will be sacrifice

Tribal elders worried

Bad wampum, many moons

Light the fires

kristin on June 26th, 2005 4:30 pm
the card being another police chief or member?

max on June 26th, 2005 4:31 pm
I havent figured out who the arawaks are, only one i know for sure is the cowboys.

kristin on June 26th, 2005 4:31 pm
who is causing the disruption in the jail/courthouse?

Shango on June 26th, 2005 4:33 pm
Arawaks do not like Babylonian musicians

Everyone in camp hears poison music

Many teepees fall

New wars with babylon

No Wampum, many moons

Light the Fires!

Elaine on June 26th, 2005 4:35 pm
I believe it is the arubian polis or the prosecution. Probably the prosecution.

Sandy on June 26th, 2005 4:36 pm
I’m not sure how it fits in, but the Arawaks are the native Indians of Aruba. I believe the Prime Minister of Aruba is part Arawak?

Shango on June 26th, 2005 4:37 pm
What is an Arawak.

To find answers, one must Google if smoke signals blowing in strong wind

Kristin-in-SC on June 26th, 2005 4:38 pm
Ok so perhaps the Arawaks could mean the native or local residents?

Sandy on June 26th, 2005 4:39 pm
Or the government?

Shango on June 26th, 2005 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon

There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.

Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.

Many teepees fall. No Wampum.

Cowboys eat Sacrifice. Arawaks eat sacrifice.

Dirty hand stays hidden, but all are well-fed.

Cowboys happy, but unrest in the halls of the palace

Babylon owes the Arawaks!

Sandy on June 26th, 2005 4:43 pm
If the Arawaks and not the Babylonians placed the singing beetles, then I think the Arawak would have to be some gov’t authority (many of whom are of indian descent).

Shango on June 26th, 2005 4:50 pm
If Babylonian Card sings, all will fall

Teepees and the house of babylon

We must have a sacrifice

Hide dirty hand

Light the fires!

kristin on June 26th, 2005 4:51 pm
i dont get light the fires….burn the place down? WHAT???

where the hell is checkme and whoever else who translates???

Shango on June 26th, 2005 4:53 pm
If Babylonian card sings ALL will fall

Teepees and the house of Babylon

If cowboys stay, after the sacrifice, everyone see dirty hand.

No Wampum, Many Moons.

Light the fires!

Shango on June 26th, 2005 4:55 pm
If cowboys see dirty hand, many teepees fall. House of Babylon falls.

we must have a sacrifice to feed the cowboys.

they go back to the fort with no loot.

chimes on June 26th, 2005 4:57 pm
Do you think the Cowboys are in cahoots with the ramnifications?

Shango on June 26th, 2005 4:58 pm
Halls of the house of babylon may suddenly twist to accomodate cowboys walking in the maze.

No loot, but many answers.

Better twisted hallways than fallen houses.

Many invisible spirits around Arawak Fires. Many gods watching.

we must have a sacrifice.

Light the fires!

Elaine on June 26th, 2005 4:58 pm
I think if they go in the right direction they will find her by Tuesday or evidence of her.

There is an item that can indict Joran and one of the brothers. It is also accusatory of another not yet in the spotlight. It is Leather or vinyl. Something worn or accessory. There is telling evidence hidden in plain sight. I think they also plan to watch Croes and see whom he talks with and what he does. She is waiting there to be found. Still. Silent. Yet screaming for them to find her. One of her fathers have been close, but not close enough. They are holding back hoping that all evidence shall wash away or dissolve but they missed a piece. A very important piece.

The tree is a little bent one third way down. Or it splits into two smaller portions. There is dna there. Struggling, violence, struggling. Choking. Pain. Multiple intrusions. Time is at a standstill or seems to be. Oh, god, the smell, the smell of one is unpleasant to further agonize the victim. He smells. The one who smells of sweat, smoke, body odor and uncleanliness is holding keys.

edie on June 26th, 2005 5:02 pm
Elaine are you a psychic?

Shango on June 26th, 2005 5:02 pm
Do not listen to cowgirls who cast shadows on the walls of doubt….

There will be a sacrifice.

The cowboys will be happy.

The house of Babylon won’t fall and crush the teepees

There will be a sacrifice

Soon many will see smoke signals

Cowboys will go back to fort
But first we need the sacrifice

Shango on June 26th, 2005 5:04 pm
Prepare the fires.

We need a sacrifice

A babylonian beast. Young Lamb der Sloot

chimes on June 26th, 2005 5:08 pm
Like fiew in the wind, spreading wild.

chimes on June 26th, 2005 5:10 pm
Correction: fire. Who will light the fire?

Shango on June 26th, 2005 5:13 pm
arawaks are lighting the fire

babylonians have no hunger

cowboys want a sacrifice

ConcernedUK on June 26th, 2005 5:16 pm
Shango is the deity, orisha, whose power is imaged by thunder and lightning

Concerned on June 26th, 2005 5:18 pm
We do not need sacrifice; we need truth.

Shango on June 26th, 2005 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks

The way is clouded for the sacrifice

Rules have changed, so has the maze

the way is lost for the pioneers who went to live among the indians

The flames are growing

A sacrifice will be made to spare the police;

to spare the teepees

Singing cards have lost their power

Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand

His lordship will bestow the title soon….

They will save the teepees and the palace,

but first

The Sacrifice

Elaine on June 26th, 2005 5:23 pm
No, it is something I feel for some reason. I felt things when Susan Smith killed her children. The second day they were missing, as soon as I saw her, I told my husband she was lying. He asked what I meant and I told him that she was lying and that she did something to those boys. I told him I felt they were in the lake, probably with the car. He told me never to say those awful things. I just feel these things and there are no specific times or reasons. I knew when the phone rang once that it was my sister in law calling to tell us his mother was dead. I knew at one time that one of the sisters were very, very ill before they knew it, but not which one. Within two years, one was diagnosed with terminal pancreatic cancer. I knew when Mark Hacking appeared on tv during the initial hunt for his wife that he was lying and that he had killed her. I dreamed she was in a dumpster with threads or strands of threads around her, probably from the mattress or clothing. My husband does not like for me to say those things because they are creepy to some. But sometimes, I just feel these things. I can read people very well. Always have. There is so much under the skin of Joran Van Der Sloot that we have not seen yet. His father has skeletons and there are other things about this that are arye. I would not call me psychic. I don’t know why I feel these things or if they are correct, but I believe she is there in a rocky place or shadowed by rocks. For some reason there is still time to find her, but something changes in this area, not on a regular basis but an irregular basis. Maybe the residing of hermit crabs or other form of decomposer, but I feel she is there waiting for someone to find her.

Concerned on June 26th, 2005 5:28 pm
How can The Sacrifice be prevented, Shango?

Shango on June 26th, 2005 5:30 pm
We need a sacrifice to appease the Arawaks and the Cowboys

Teepees already swaying in strong babylonian wind

House of Babylon does not want a sacrifice

They do not care about Arawak Teepees

only wrath of cowboys

Shango on June 26th, 2005 5:32 pm
The sacrifice is the correct food to appease the gods, arawaks, and cowboys

but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake

even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed

Concerned on June 26th, 2005 5:37 pm
Shango: the corruption and sins are greater than the parties we know?

It involves the drug cult, possibly related human trafficking and this would cause too much fear for all innnocents not to mention cause the house of cards to fall???

Shango on June 26th, 2005 5:39 pm
Every tribe has bad Indians

Every fort has bad cowboys

If sirens sing a poison song, all will get sick

Arawaks and cowboys working well

Arawaks fear wrath of cowboys for DirtyHand

But babylonians live in teepees too

If the house of babylon is to remain erect, it must protect the babylonians who have lived in teepees, among the arawaks, for a long time.

babylon will agree to a sacrifice of newer teepee dwellers to prevent the story of dirtyhand being made public

Dirtyhand scares arawaks too

the sacrifice will be the correct sacrifice to appease the gods and cowboys

cowboys will leave without loot

Concerned on June 26th, 2005 5:40 pm
The Sacrifice is not innocent but is not the ultimate cause of the crime???!!

Call it a conspiracy theory; but the subculture exists and thrives. How do we arm ourselves and our loved ones against these evils???

Shango on June 26th, 2005 5:43 pm
Meetings with his lordship will reveal several mysteries

the sacrifice also knows the fires have been lit

Concerned on June 26th, 2005 5:44 pm
We need to support the efforts of Natalee’s family and the Texas Equus. Their leader has experienced the loss of a daughter and is driven by passion and love of his daughter.

Whatever the outcome, we need to be less naive about the subculture that feeds our economies, yet corrupts our souls and the innocence of our descendents.

Anne on June 26th, 2005 5:45 pm
Kristin: I don’t know anymore who the singing Babylonian would be, really. And edie, I don’t really know about Joran, either. Instinctually I believe he is guilty (Occam’s Razor) but since the politician in US said this case is different than any other missing/kidnapping case, I suspect perhaps he might have been a convenient scapegoat. He and Dad might be involved in some bad business, but what our Aruban friends here intimate is that it’s nowhere near as pervasive or insidious as that of “DirtyHand” - or whomever is truly responsible for Natalee’ s ultimate fate. Not even sure if I’m in the right church, let alone pew.

Shango on June 26th, 2005 5:48 pm
The simplicity of Occams Razor is often outweighed by the complexity of maintaining factors in an elemental state

Shango on June 26th, 2005 5:50 pm
The pain the sacrificial beast will feel depends on how quickly the cowboys return to the fort.

Donny on June 26th, 2005 5:51 pm
Fyi

On Foxnews:

Suspect’s Father to Be Released

ConcernedUK on June 26th, 2005 5:51 pm
Does Shango liaise with Simian?

Shango on June 26th, 2005 5:54 pm
The Arawaks are not going to sacrifice a scapegoat

Babylon needs to allow one sacrifice to keep DirtyHand hidden

Babylon scared of DirtyHand

Arawaks scared of DirtyHand

If sacrifice is made, teepees are safe, villagers and cowboys happy

If DirtyHand discovered, House of Babylon falls, Teepees crushed under great house

Concerned on June 26th, 2005 5:55 pm
Shango, hierarchy of classes? rascism?

Elaine on June 26th, 2005 5:55 pm
Croes told the polis that he personally saw VDS and the Kalpoe boys drop Natalee off at the HI. A place they no longer claim to have left her. HMMMMMMMMM. Smells like a liar to me. Supposedly, he does not even really know VDS, so why would he alibi them????? I have a hard time buying that he would put himself in the light by doing that.

Concerned on June 26th, 2005 5:58 pm
Why can’t they fall? Isn’t it about time? Can’t we rebuild with justice and honesty?
This isn’t just Aruba; it is Pleasantville, USA and any other international locale!!

Shango on June 26th, 2005 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy

Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House

Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house,

and so DirtyHand was discovered

But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings

He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous

Concerned on June 26th, 2005 5:59 pm
Fear is what perpetuates and strengthens DirtyHands everywhere!!!

Shango on June 26th, 2005 6:00 pm
arawaks and babylonians often fight, but this is kept from the cowboys as it can affect wampum for many moons.

Concerned on June 26th, 2005 6:00 pm
And that is all??!! Will cowboys know DirtyHand?

kristin on June 26th, 2005 6:00 pm
paulus is let go now

ConcernedUK on June 26th, 2005 6:02 pm
Sounds to me like Aruba has an ‘alter-ego’ that the world (particulalrly USA) would not like if they knew of it and the fairytale Aruba everyone believed in would suffer if they did

Shango on June 26th, 2005 6:02 pm
The babylonians are to blame.

The arawaks were worried about teepees and the cowboys.

They did not bring DirtyHand into the Tribe!

He will go back to babylon broken, after the sacrifice is eaten

Shango on June 26th, 2005 6:04 pm
If DirtyHand sings, sacrifice will still be eaten.

But there will be many more people at the feast, and the cowboys would resent the Arawaks for Babylons interference.

Concerned on June 26th, 2005 6:06 pm
Shango, if DH goes back broken, why can’t identity be revealed??

Ragalee on June 26th, 2005 6:06 pm
I guess I need to go get my secret decoder ring to play with you all. This is too much.

Anyone remember SHOCK saying late last night that when we wake up, there will be some big news proving his posts are real? Not to doubt anyone, but what was the big news this morning? Only news I see it that Croes and PVDS are set to be released on Monday….which is totally opposite from Shock’s comments last night.

Thoughts???

Concerned on June 26th, 2005 6:08 pm
Many at the feast?? To benefit economically, I suppose. The “beast” is a criminal but part of, and or, guided by greater criminals!!??

Elaine on June 26th, 2005 6:10 pm
What a sad statement of affairs. They did just let Paulis go. It is a mistake. Maybe all judicials there are part of the bigger picture. Should there be international agencies involved? Maybe the DEA needs to keep their ears on the tracks leading down the carribbean. Or maybe they are wanting to watch for his next moves.

They cannot get hung up on this one thing. The central focus must be finding Natalee. She must be found. Finding her will unravel the whole ball of yarn. She is there. Her mom even felt she had been in the VDS house. Her mom is serious about not leaving without her. She must be found. She can with some focused scrutiny. Please let her be found.

kristin on June 26th, 2005 6:13 pm
i cant play this game, i really cant.
are they releasing joran too?

Shango on June 26th, 2005 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist.

doors to eden remain closed.

The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty.

Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.

If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons.

DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon.

Better to prepare the sacrifice quickly so the cowboys go home

….without the loot

Ragalee on June 26th, 2005 6:14 pm
Kristen, I am with you. I guess we both need to go get our secret decoder rings.

kristin on June 26th, 2005 6:14 pm
i guess mrs twitty needs to go hold a gun to paulus’s head and demand him to tell her where they put natalee. no one is going to find out the truth until another death occurs. i can feel it.

kristin on June 26th, 2005 6:15 pm
when are they going to arrest lorenzo?

T K on June 26th, 2005 6:19 pm
Ragalee,
I remember “Shock's” comments. I also remember questioning him on what would happen today if his comments were not proven to be true. He stated “it wont happen”. Now I guess we all can see that his comments are not to be taken so seriously. There are lots of very smart people on her talking about what they know and what will happen. I believe wholly that these smart people are just talking a bunch of riddles that have no proof behind them. They want to make us all think they are close to this investigation and that they know more than everyone else. The problem is they have given us no more proof than the Aruban police or the reporters have. Unfortunately I don’t think they will in the future either.

Shango on June 26th, 2005 6:19 pm
There are many DirtyHands among the Arawak, and so it has been for centuries…

Ragalee on June 26th, 2005 6:25 pm
TK, I also remember your post from last night and SHOCK’s reponse. I wonder why the two of us are the only ones mentioning this? I am fine with everyone providing ideas and opinions, don’t even mind if people are acting like they are close to the case, and have inside information….however, the one thing that I can’t understand is why the RIDDLE game? Do some find it fun/challenging? It is just annoying me…not to offend, just speaking my opinion.

At any rate, I must not be too annoyed b/c I keep coming back and keep reading.

kristin on June 26th, 2005 6:25 pm
i think simian is shango

kristin on June 26th, 2005 6:27 pm
ragalee, me too.

i think they are doing it because they feel that they will get in trouble if they just come out and say it. even though everyone is entitled to assume and give their own opinion. for some reason, simian/shango-WHOEVER won’t do that.

what a shame, i have lost interest.

going to a different blog. what a waste of my time!
-disappointed

Shango on June 26th, 2005 6:28 pm
All preceding stated is verifiable

DirtyHand is well known

there will be a sacrifice

the gods have been talking

the fires have been lit

the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot

that is why they are preparing the sacrifice

All fear DirtyHand

Arawaks and babylon

I must go feed the messengers

T K on June 26th, 2005 6:30 pm
if it is so verifiable then tell everyone how to verify it! That would be the nice thing to do.

vander F on June 26th, 2005 6:30 pm
It’s not that difficult to understand what shango says.
Helemaal niet. [translation: not at all]

Shango on June 26th, 2005 6:30 pm
Shango is not a Simian Doppleganger and has his own messengers

neworleansbigeasy on June 26th, 2005 6:33 pm
father is going free as well. HORRIBLE. Can’t belive they are letting him go. makes me sick.

These comments are from the "Something Bad" FP post....mostly Arubans...and some interesting comments concerning the night of June 10th and morning of June 11th.



http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/11/breaking/#comments

concerned on June 11th, 2005 12:03 am
thanks for the link…I wonder who confessed….
RIP Natalee

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 12:13 am
Prime Minister is clueless


Tom on June 11th, 2005 12:14 am
Thanks Brenda
Why Arubagirl?>

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 12:15 am
He was caught by surprise at the CNN report


arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 12:16 am
Oh, and I’m not so sure that he’s taking them to her body right now, scared monkeys. Just FYI

Jim on June 11th, 2005 12:18 am
Tragic ending and certainly prayers go to the family. I had a feeling these 3 guys were up to no good and their story never seemed to fit. I’m guessing the FBI had a lot to do with cracking the kid, as the Aruban Police looked pathetically lost.

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 12:19 am
Jim. SHUT UP

Jim on June 11th, 2005 12:23 am
Sorry arubagirl. You arrested two guys originally who it looks like had nothing to do with this murder at all. These guys had alibis and arguably nothing to do with the case. Their picture was plastered all over the place and their lives have been forever changed. Meanwhile, your police force is letting the 3 kids who last saw her alive go free, even though their story of dropping her off was clearly a lie.
Spot on police work from Aruba, it’s a good thing you guys don’t have to deal with too many murders.

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 12:26 am
Jim, you mean like they didn’t arrest Scott Peterson initially? I guess you know the island pretty well to pass such judgement on the cops.

Slice on June 11th, 2005 12:29 am
I live on Aruba, and no offense but I have to say that Jim was right, the police here was completely useless. They kept 2 completely innocent men in jail way longer than neccesary without any evidence, and the REAL culprits got to go free…well basically that’s what Jim said but I really agree wholeheartedly and I apologize on behalf of…well, myself. I mean, you can’t blame a everybody for everything that happens in a country, but the police force…. I am really just… disgusted.

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 12:31 am
Slice, I also live in Aruba, and while I didn’t think that there was hard evidence to keep the sec. guards locked up, that doesn’t mean that the cops had no idea what they were doing. I mean, if one of them confessed, they knew what they were doing, right? Wasn’t that the endgoal of their arrest?

Slice on June 11th, 2005 12:33 am
Yeah, but unneccesarily keeping people who had nothing to do with it imprisoned longer than the actual culprits is pretty appalling. Especially when u think of how they get nothing in return for the crap they’ve been through. I’ve heard of stepping on toes, but this is ridiculous.

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 12:35 am
As for the security guards, if indeed it turns out that they had nothing to do with this, they should demand a public apology. I would say sue their asses, but not too sure that they’d be succesful.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 12:44 am
People
it’s not even a fact yet police hasn’t said this is the case as yet
we don’t know where CNN got this information but they are not confirming this at the moment for no one
Not even the prime minister of the country is aware of this

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 12:45 am
Prime Minister still doesn’t know anything. In fact, I’m not sure that the family knew.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 12:46 am
Family heard it now trough the news on CNN

Jim on June 11th, 2005 12:46 am
Local, welcome to the US media. They’ll know before the Prime Minister, trust me. They are as good as it gets.
It probably wasn’t an accident, I’m just saying that you never know how it went down.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 12:46 am
Everybody at the office of detectives in aruba are denying there is something

[b]arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 12:47 am [/b]
It’s just said that the family didn’t know, to hear this on CNN. Jeez.

Jim on June 11th, 2005 12:47 am
Are these the same detectives that arrested 2 innocent guys and have taken over a week to figure out a pretty simple case? I’ll take the medias word before them.

Slice on June 11th, 2005 12:48 am
I’m pretty sure they didn’t kill her on purpose though….

RAS on June 11th, 2005 12:49 am
Why do u say slice?


LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 12:49 am
Right now the news hasen’t been confirmed to anybody they don’t know where CNN is getting that information
Also the family called the prime minister who talked on a local radio that family don’t want her to be fillemed to make it harder on them, is there request
There are some channels calling back the confesion
Cnn ain’t one of them

Deadhead420 on June 11th, 2005 12:49 am
Didn’t kill her on purpose? Are you kidding?! They raped and killed the poor girl I’m sure.

concerned on June 11th, 2005 12:49 am
slice, what do you know? were u there?

Slice on June 11th, 2005 12:49 am
I mean, it’s pretty unlikely that they could have any reason to…

Jim on June 11th, 2005 12:50 am
LocalFemale, every major news outlet in the US is reporting the story. I don’t see anyone retracting it.

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 12:50 am
AP is taking it back. Or was. Not sure now.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 12:50 am
aruba doesn’t have a hand full of detectives so no
and they were just covering there baises
US is to talk they let scott peterson go
and other cases they still can’t find the peoples killer
and you want to judge us

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 12:51 am
AP is taking it back. Or was. Not sure now.

Slice on June 11th, 2005 12:51 am
I mean come on, the way the article says they were kissing passionately, and what reason would they even have come up with in the short amount of time of knowing her to kill her?

Slice on June 11th, 2005 12:52 am
Oh great, let’s blame males!

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 12:53 am – about Scott P.
They didn’t arrest him initially. The cops didn’t let O.J. go. The jury did.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 12:54 am
well we can’t blame anyone to this point since here it hasen’t been confermid to any media any
we don’t know out of what thin air CNN got it from
i guess whatever sells

[b]arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 12:55 am [/b]
Well, they better be right about this one. This is not something you can play around with. Although I hope that they’re wrong.

[b]Slice on June 11th, 2005 12:56 am [/b]
Most men? Are you referring to the entire world’s population? So you’ve personally met each and every man in the world? That’s really cool.. and as far as having a daughter, no thanks, cuz apparently it’d make me generalize everything… dickhead.

Slice on June 11th, 2005 12:57 am
Most men? Are you referring to the entire world’s population? So you’ve personally met each and every man in the world? That’s really cool.. and as far as having a daughter, no thanks, cuz apparently it’d make me generalize everything… dickhead.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 12:57 am
thanks aruba girl they didn’t arrest him initially get your facsed right

concerned on June 11th, 2005 12:58 am
Slice you must be local to Aruba huh?

Tom on June 11th, 2005 12:58 am
NO SCOTT PETERSON TALK !!!

Slice on June 11th, 2005 12:59 am
Yes, since I’ve been born. How’d you know? Well even though I AM an Aruban, a lot of things happen here that shouldn’t, big and small… but that’s the case everywhere, I guess.

Fun in Aruba on June 11th, 2005 12:59 am
oooohhhhhh something bad just happened to Natlee… well thank god for that….
I thought the Arubains KILLED HER…… glade that cleared up………….

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:00 am
i just wanted to make a point since you blame our cops for not doing there job
to this point aruba is going out of there mind
because cnn and other press from US and the world seem to say that she is dead
because it hasn’t been confirmed

Jim on June 11th, 2005 1:02 am
LocalFemale, our media is very good. I’m certain they have a good source within the FBI telling them this information. A lot of times the media picks up on stuff before the family even finds out. CNN isn’t a news source that just makes stuff up. They have very good connections.


Tom on June 11th, 2005 1:03 am
Local Female
Without giving away too much , are you in a place watching all this or are you listening to the TV and or radio
Thanks
Tom

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:03 am
that’s the part it is not FBI juristiction they are not allowed to do anything without local autorities

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:04 am
Do you know something, K Mak and Fun in Aruba? Most Arubans don’t go around bashing the police force of a country that is not ours or that we don’t live in, so how about you do the same, okay?

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:04 am
PEOPLE IT”S Dutch ground NOT i repeat NOT AMERICAN SOIL
FBI No JURISTICTION

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:06 am
accectly so not because they are arrested means they are guilty

K Mak on June 11th, 2005 1:06 am
But Aruba got pressure to “let the FBI help” and last I heard there were THIRTEEN FBI agents in Aruba. I doubt they were working on their tans.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:07 am
till we know there only reporters at the light house not cops
cops said nothing is going on they are going home to sleep

Tom on June 11th, 2005 1:07 am
We corrected that in the live report from the birmingham TV.. have npot had a chance to correct everything it is very fluid

Courtney on June 11th, 2005 1:07 am
That’s because she was an American Citizen. It was of American concern.
Had the FBI not become involved, people would be saying “why didnt they do anything, blah blah blah”.

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:08 am
It seems that they are going to Canashito, which is sort of a rock quarry. During the massive search (the one where the civil servants got off), they spotted suspcious activity by a white van in the area. The cops went to check it out, but found nothing.

Slice on June 11th, 2005 1:08 am
Aruba is and should be glad they got the help, no doubt about that.

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:09 am
Courtney, trust me when I tell you this, I don’t think any american tourist that ever disappeard in the WHOLE Caribbean got this much attention.

bengalbaby on June 11th, 2005 1:09 am
So is there a confession or not?

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:09 am
ITA, Slice.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:10 am
They’re is only one patrool cop at the light house to see what all the media is doing there nothing more

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:12 am
No confesion is confirmed as yet

Slice on June 11th, 2005 1:13 am
Wait… I just realised something.. wtf? Something bad has happened to her? Is that the actual statement? Whaaaa?!

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:13 am
the security guard are still in custody

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:14 am
Police Commisionary Dompig denies that he confirmed the news. He said to the AP that he could not confirm the news.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:14 am
The Sir Dompifg of police, which is named by acosiated press
has denied to other local medias that this is the case
And is calling asociated press to retract his name

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:15 am
He told the local radio station that he could not confirm the news.

Jim on June 11th, 2005 1:15 am
Local, why do you keep downplaying this story? I understand it doesn’t look good on Aruba, but you are just posting false information. The story is being run on every major news outlet in the states. CNN, Fox News, MSNBC. It is on every major new site in the country.
I doubt the police have gone to sleep, and I’m sure they are out looking for the body as we type. I understand your national pride, but let’s not let that have you make up stuff.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:16 am
There are cars and press mobilizing all around the island to spot cars of cops to see if there is something
But is doesn’t seem to bee the case
On local scanners of police frequencie there aren’t any abnormalities

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:16 am
oops, guess we were posting at the same time.

dragonfly on June 11th, 2005 1:16 am
So far I can’t find any US news backing off of the story. Most are saying that he is leading them to the body now. I don’t know how true that is, but all are still reporting that either he confessed to murder or confessed “something bad happened”. I hope it is not true that the parents learned of this on the news!

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:18 am
I am not posting false information
the news that is running is from one media source copied by all
witch hassent been confirmed

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:18 am
According to the prime minister the fam. didn’t know this until they turned on CNN. The radio stations are also reporting that cops are heading to recover the remains. First it was lighthouse, then it was Bubali Plas (shallow lake), now it’s Canashito, the rock quarry.

Jim on June 11th, 2005 1:19 am
LocalFemale, can you please post links to your source. I see lots of links to stories that you say are false, but no links to your versions.

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:19 am
Local, don’t bother. Trust me.

[b]LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:20 am [/b]
Fun in Aruba What you talking about?
arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:20 am
I’m guessing that we’re listenining to the same radiostation. Let me know if you can understand Papiamento, and I’ll gladly link to the feed of the radio station.

Jim on June 11th, 2005 1:21 am
Just link to the feed. Thanks in advance.

Tom on June 11th, 2005 1:22 am
Where is the Quarry, what town ,,, Red is asking we will try to put up the map
Tom

Slice on June 11th, 2005 1:22 am
link pls:|

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:22 am
Bingo if you can understand it go ahead, but spanish nor spanglish ain’t papiamento

Tom on June 11th, 2005 1:22 am
Also what station are you listening to

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:22 am
You can’t go to the top, unless you have a key or you broke in. WHich I THINK they would have noticed. Look now at everybody saying that the Aruban police are blind as well as stupid and imcompetent.

Slice on June 11th, 2005 1:23 am
Hey, I would like the link pls?

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:23 am
Top 95. http://www.top95fm.aw

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:24 am
Last time i check you want evidence ok there isn’t any evidence of fall play any evidence of kidnapping any evidence of murder or any evidence of suicide or any evidence of attempted murder, any evidence of accidental death any evidence of her running away
PEOPLE NO EVIDENCE

Leila on June 11th, 2005 1:24 am
95.1

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:25 am
I’m pretty sure that Local can explain it better, but if you find a map with the airport on it, it’s on the same level as the Airport, except more inland.

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:27 am
PM says CNN isn’t right. Says that he won’t support CNN story. Still not saying that it isn’t true, but this is what PM is saying.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:28 am
Ok Prime Minister said that there is an invastigation going on but that the case that someone has confessed is not the case at this time
They don’t know when or where US press got this information

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:30 am
Local Radio Station: They are in Canashito that persons of this country are looking for her at this time, not cops no cops at the sight

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:31 am
They are speaking Papiamento the native language

Leila on June 11th, 2005 1:32 am
Radio feels bypassed, seems AP is going over Aruban heads ….

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:32 am
It’s so lovely to see all these experts on the island here.

[b]LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:33 am [/b]
She’s Been seen alive 3 to four days ago in San Nicolaas

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:34 am
Mmphmm, about 19 miles, I think

Leila on June 11th, 2005 1:34 am
Locals saying somethings happening i n Canashito

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:35 am
No they don’t feel bypassed but the fact that someone is stating something that is not true

Dee on June 11th, 2005 1:35 am
I don’t know what to believe. CNN TV reporter in Aruba is reporting that there was a confession or statement of “something bad has happend”. They have updates every 10 minutes.
What time is it now in Aruba?

dragonfly on June 11th, 2005 1:36 am
CNN still reporting that an official very high in Aruba is telling them that there is a confession and that he will lead them to the body.

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:36 am
Nothing found at Canashito

Leila on June 11th, 2005 1:37 am
Dompig (surinamer) , Van der Straten (Dutch) bringing down Aruba

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:37 am
There are alot of people there because someone said that they felt fibrations over there
which in my perspective it ain’t far fedged since it was known to be caves where indians use to live in ealy 1800

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:37 am
1:37 am

Leila on June 11th, 2005 1:38 am
Police top calling Top 95.1, family dont want everybody on the road

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:39 am
Dompig said he didn’t admit to saying that these statements are true

Leila on June 11th, 2005 1:40 am
Family was promised by PM discretion.

just another guy on June 11th, 2005 1:41 am
wait im confused, they said “something bad happened to her” does that mean, she’s deceased? or still they cant confirm?[/i

Teo on June 11th, 2005 1:41 am …http://www.arubadag.com/=Teo
You can acces all radiostations from Aruba on http://www.arubadag.com
Though even CNN and other US newsmedia brought it , officialy it is not confirmed by local authorithies in Aruba.
Arubagirl and others are just writing down what they hear on their local stations.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:41 am
as far as information go
it is still believed she is alive

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:41 am
We have time difference with US when you your time change.

Leila on June 11th, 2005 1:42 am
Radio is calling off the dogs, but still between the lines showing that there is development

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:43 am
Obviously I don’t know my island… sorry for the wrong info on Canashito location.

Leila on June 11th, 2005 1:43 am
At 10.30 already screams and tears fell at HI by NH family, CNN an Fox on site

Leila on June 11th, 2005 1:45 am
Police is trying to keep away media, but the story is a goer

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:45 am
At 10.30 the mom started crying in Holiday Inn.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:45 am
now there are a lot of things going around
some local people think that the information that ain’t confirmed by police officials are true, some don’t

Dee on June 11th, 2005 1:45 am
Leila…where are u reading this info?

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:46 am
LISTENING ON THE RADIO

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:47 am
now it’s a free for all on the radio for anyone to call in and say something

Leila on June 11th, 2005 1:47 am  
AP and CNN got higher clearance than ARuba PM

Tom on June 11th, 2005 1:48 am
What is the station number?
Tom

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:48 am
The radio station is so unbelievably pissed off.

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:49 am
(00297) 5855555

Leila on June 11th, 2005 1:49 am
PM confirms information is for sale. Local media obviously cannot match the big media bids

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:49 am
they are saying that some footage are being passed or reported on other channels that heven’t been rectify
some us channels say that her body has been found
which there is no info on that

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:49 am
Yeah, no kidding Leila. Heads are going to be put on the chopping block.

donna on June 11th, 2005 1:51 am
I am so lost as to what is going on at this point

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:52 am
Donna, you’re not the only one.

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:53 am
Why do you guys say it’s van der Sloot and not the other two guys? I’m just curious.

friend of mickey john on June 11th, 2005 1:55 am
arubian girl
where is the pet cemetary in relation to the search right now?

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 1:57 am
probably looking at all posible sight again these are locals and news crues
looking at diffrent sites

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 1:57 am
They’re not saying anything about the Pet cemetary. At least not on the radio station

Whitney on June 11th, 2005 1:59 am
Arubagirl: that makes sense how CNN got the first breaking news on this, then FoxNews…I think that was the pecking order when they broke the news about the first arrests, too.

K Mak on June 11th, 2005 1:59 am
I think it’s Joran because he was the one advertising himself as a partier on every site possible, he’s the one that befriended the group, he’s the one that almost got in a fight with one of the group that night, and admittedly has an “anger problem” and he’s the one they all (all three) maintain “got intimate” with her that night. I don’t know, it’s just a wild guess.

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:00 am
I will admit that the impression that locals have is that this specific girl must be from from rich and/or powerful family, since the U.S. Pres. called the PM (PM said so). Also, the FBI reacted within 24 hours, which I don’t think they even do in the States.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 2:04 am
Ok people going back these are all speculations that are not confirmed
And to this point No cop on this island is stating this is true
Besides other that this soposed confetion if this is true ant the case
there is no evidence to point to nothing
Nothing from running away trough kidnapping to death or murder

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:04 am
I have no issues with Natalee’s family. However, the people on the boards have been infuriatingly self-righteous about the cops here, while most of them have probably never been here for long periods of time.

K Mak on June 11th, 2005 2:06 am
Arubagirl, if it had been your daughter, would you have been happy with the way the police handled the case?

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 2:07 am
US are rectifying the news

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:07 am
Clarification: Not ALL the people have been posing as experts. It’s just the ones that have, are very annoying

Leila on June 11th, 2005 2:08 am
Its all polical !! Aruban governement has been overrided by the police, police left 3 on the street for 11 days. They knew they did it from the beginneing

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:08 am
That’s USA TODAY, saying that no confession has happened. According to the radio station, that is, I haven’t been to the site

[b]arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:08 am [/b]
Empty big plastic bag found at Canashito.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 2:09 am
they say there are new information, that she is alive, one reporter says that there are more people involved that just these 3 boys, and even think family may have something to do with this
this is a reporters info (or Opinion)

Leila on June 11th, 2005 2:09 am
Aruban police is governed by other elements

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:09 am
But I don’t if that means anything. And again, this is the local radio station.

Jay on June 11th, 2005 2:10 am
With all this news coming out, I’m reminded of a post from earlier today, that this Joren Vanderslooth updated his personal site 3 days ago…How do you kill someone, or even if he didn’t interntionally kill someone, how can you be one of the three people in the world that knows what happened to this girl, and sit at home and update your personal site?

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:10 am
Yeah, like an incompetent Minister of Justice (hopefully nobody is MEP here)

Tom on June 11th, 2005 2:11 am
USA TODAY has the AP story … linked to the ABC version above.

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:11 am
that’s why she said, REPORTER’s Opinion. Not saying that the reporter isn’t an idiot.

Leila on June 11th, 2005 2:12 am
No offence taken

Tom on June 11th, 2005 2:12 am
What is MEP arubagirl?

Jim on June 11th, 2005 2:12 am
Then I think you can turn off the radio down there. Seems their reporting is about as spot on as your police departments.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 2:14 am
Hey Jim
Well its opinion of a local reporter
and not mine yet i will have to say look at the case of the girl that went missing for 7 years had a fight with her mother and left without being heard from again after 7 years working at a sam’s

Leila on June 11th, 2005 2:14 am
MEP, Ruling party of Aruba, till next eleciont in sep this year

Courtney on June 11th, 2005 2:14 am
If you’re going to sit behind your computer screen and make snide remarks and be rude, then honestly - there is no reason to be here. Everyone is concerned, and wants an update on the information, and these people are being kind enough to report to us what is going on over the airwaves in Aruba.
Unless you have something with substance to add, give it a rest.

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:15 am
Thanks, guys.

Tom on June 11th, 2005 2:16 am
Tbanks Aruba Girl..
Next time down we will take you and Local Girl out for a nice dinner..
Tom and Red

Gabriel Leo on June 11th, 2005 2:16 am
News going around on the island
Local media has contacted “live” on the air authorities, Prime Minister and other involved sources if the story, which again International media has published without the Aruba Media, Public even knows. Everyone with common sens knows that the first to find out are the local media. This left everyone on the island in shocked and therefor the local media started looking for confirmation which every top officials strongly denies. The Prime minister and Minister of Justice WHO ARE ALWAYS the first to receive any news said on the air ” Live” on the local media that the stories are not true and he has no information of any new developments.
Everyone denies that she is dead and that they are looking for her at this moment is not true.
The Ascioated press has started to change their news from found dead, or that they are looking for her remains to “bad things happening” or “bad things happened.
It’s 2 ‘o clock in the morning now and there will be no official statement until tomorrow. This is what’s going on now. Every top oficials on the island denies the story that has been published bij CNN and the AP.

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:17 am
Heh, I’ll take you up on it 

Leila on June 11th, 2005 2:17 am
Jim, FYI Police department has MISLED everybody

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 2:18 am
Where is the Biological Father?
Money talks, or again prestige and position
FBI doesn’t come here with 24 hours for just a missing person
Hasn’t happen before


Leila on June 11th, 2005 2:19 am
Arubagirl, don’t go out with strangers …

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:19 am
I respectfully disagree with Gabriel, what I heard was that no one confirmed the story, or that no one was able to confirm the story. This is as far as police officials go.

Leila on June 11th, 2005 2:19 am
Closing Radio!!!!

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:20 am
Leila, I’ll take local and gabriel along… they’ll protect me. Right guys?

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:21 am
Yup, radiostation signing off.

Leila on June 11th, 2005 2:21 am
Broadcasting Radio has stopped,

Jim on June 11th, 2005 2:22 am
CNN is sticking strong to their story. I hope it isn’t true, but CNN doesn’t typically put up stories without a very good source. I’d have to say that they are the most careful of the mainstream media outlets in the states.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 2:22 am
yup they’re closing the radio info at this time
as for aruba girl; doesn’t go with strangers we are friends as for one of us enter somens car with stranger we would either drag the one out of the car or hit whom ever they are going with to let her go
Friends don’t let friends go with stranger no matter what they say intoxicated or not

NoDumbBunny on June 11th, 2005 2:22 am
Local? Her bio father is from Mississippi and is supposedly down there. He was on the Early Show on CBS Friday morning.
Her stepdaddy is a manager for Phoenix Metals - a subsidiary of Reliance Steel who also own: Allegheny Steel Distributors, Inc., Aluminum and Stainless, Inc., American Metals Corporation, American Steel, L.L.C., AMI Metals, Inc., CCC Steel, Inc., Central Plains Steel Co., Chatham Steel Corporation, Durrett Sheppard Steel Co., Inc., Liebovich Bros., Inc., Lusk Metals, Pacific Metal Company, PDM Steel Service Centers, Inc., Precision Strip, Inc., RSAC Management Corp., Service Steel Aerospace Corp., Siskin Steel & Supply Company, Inc., Toma Metals, Inc., Valex Corp. and Viking Materials, Inc. This was taken from Reliance Steels SEC Annual Filing.
BIG company with BIG connections.
Make sense?

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:24 am
Yeah, well, Jim. I’m not saying it isn’t true for God’s sake. I don’t think CNN would mess around with something like this. I’m just trying to relay what’s going on here. Believe me, EVERYONE wants this thing to be solved.

Red on June 11th, 2005 2:24 am
Arubagirl - After all this, we are not strangers. .

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:25 am
THANK YOU, Bunny. Finally I get the connections.

frankdags on June 11th, 2005 2:26 am
I truly hope its not true, But there have been times CNN has been wrong. Being in the legal industry I can vouch for that.

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:26 am 
Really, Red? In the States or here?

Leila on June 11th, 2005 2:26 am
It is solved. U think its possible to dig up NH in broad daylight? ?? If u from here you know that everybody will be looking, it wil be one big show. Everybody on the island will go and look. They have to do it NOW


Red on June 11th, 2005 2:26 am
Is all the local media denying what was reported? The PM was mad but was that because the family did not know first or because the news was false?

dragonfly on June 11th, 2005 2:26 am
While I do believe that money carries its weight, I remember HUGE coverage of Jessica Lunsford and her family is far from being well-off. Some stories just grip our hearts. This was one of them. And I think that FBI usually gets involved in abductions that cross state lines as far as in the US. This case was a case of a missing American and a very “America-friendly” country. I really do not believe this was all about social status.

Amy on June 11th, 2005 2:26 am
From what I understand, the authorities arrested the two security guards in order to ‘distract’ the other boys. Now, there is always a chance that this is false info. but it was said that during this time the police/FBI were able to tap the boys phones, etc…in order to gain more information. It sounds to me that they know what they are doing in Aruba (even though it stinks for the arrested security guards)

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 2:26 am
Everyone wants to know if it’s true or not
local authorities say they haven’t said this


Jim on June 11th, 2005 2:26 am
No problem aruba, and sorry if I offended you. I was trying to explain that our media is much different. They play dirty and will pay what it takes to bribe someone for a story. Families finding out about loved ones through the media is common here. Sometimes they move faster than the law enforcement can.

Tom on June 11th, 2005 2:27 am
Jim
Yep CNN is tight,, just ask Eason Jordon.


arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:27 am
Oh, by the way, the caves at Canashito are pretty hard to reach. If they’re searching for these in the dark, it’s very dangerous. I think I’ve heard that you can only reach the caves by rapelling, but I may be wrong about this last part.

Red on June 11th, 2005 2:28 am
In Aruba, My family started bringing me to Aruba when I was 5. Lived and worked on Aruba for a while.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 2:28 am
Hycyanscience say the following : Aruban Radio Report: Searching Canashito River For Natalee Holloway(via Riehl World View)
there is no canashito River
There isn’t any rivers in aruba

Tom on June 11th, 2005 2:28 am
Jim
Your No probelm post to Aruba is DEAD ON THOUGH!

NoDumbBunny on June 11th, 2005 2:30 am
dragonfly: This is a heart gripping story, no doubt!!! It has had extra meaning for me - being from AL and having a child graduate from HS this year, too…..I am absolutely not saying that is doesn’t deserve the coverage.
I just was answering Local’s question about how/why the FBI or the President calling the PM may have happened.

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:30 am
Who is Eason Jordan?

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:31 am
Canashito RIVER?!?!!?!?! What in the HELL?!

Jay on June 11th, 2005 2:32 am
With all these reports being corrected that there was no confession but that something bad happened, is it at all possible that she was abducted while with these 3 guys and they have been afraid to say anything for fear of being suspected.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 2:33 am
sorry this girl doesn’t like to read much
aruba nan a skibi na un site cu nan tawata busca den canashito river manera cu tin uno na aruba

NoDumbBunny on June 11th, 2005 2:33 am
CNN News chief who resigned in February over some controversy over reporting about the war in Iraq….

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:33 am
Local, maybe they mean the Rooi di Canashito? Does Canashito have a rooi? A ‘rooi’ is a dry streambed that is quite common on the island.

jessibobessy on June 11th, 2005 2:33 am
FOX news has been retracting this confession for an hour.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 2:34 am
sorry this girl doesn’t like to read much
aruba nan a skibi na un site cu nan tawata busca den canashito river manera cu tin uno na aruba

Red on June 11th, 2005 2:34 am
Fox news reporting on TV “No confession made in Natalee Holloways murder”
Abraham Jones will be released tomorrow

frankdags on June 11th, 2005 2:34 am
One of the security guards is going to be released tomorrow morning.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 2:35 am
no the site said river, there aren’t any rivers in aruba

m wood on June 11th, 2005 2:36 am
local
Hycyanscience indicates that their source is scared monkey. See the copy/paste from arubagirl and yourself.
Aruba Girl
According to the prime minister the fam. didn’t know this until they turned on CNN. The radio stations are also reporting that cops are heading to recover the remains. First it was lighthouse, then it was Bubali Plas (shallow lake), now it’s Canashito, the rock quarry.
Aruba Girl
Police Commisionary Dompig denies that he confirmed the news. He said to the AP that he could not confirm the news.
He told the local radio station that he could not confirm the news.
Local Female
The Sir Dompifg of police, which is named by acosiated press has denied to other local medias that this is the case And is calling associated press to retract his name.

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:36 am
Oh, how do you know this, frankdags, if you can reveal your info, of course.

Red on June 11th, 2005 2:37 am
Deputy Chief has retracted what he initially said that there was a confession according to Fox

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:37 am
Yeah, but do you see the word RIVER anywhere in there?

Red on June 11th, 2005 2:37 am
Reports of a search for a body is false as well according to FOX NEWS

Jim on June 11th, 2005 2:38 am
Fox News is reporting that one of the security guard will be released tomorrow morning.
My guess is that the forensic evidence from the cars came back today. They probably pressured the kid with the evidence, and possibly some other stuff they gathered, and he had no choice but to confess.
Fox News is doing a live report and here is the reporters opinion. It seems as though the story of a confession is true. The problem is that it was a leak, and the Aruban officials are very upset as it broke a promise to the family. They are now retracting it till things get sorted out. He reported the family was upset and taken to a police station, which means there is activity tonight. He also stated that there were signs of police activity at a location, but it was not confirmed.
I think we will have a body and confession tomorrow.

m wood on June 11th, 2005 2:38 am
no i think someone added to your statement at another site

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 2:39 am
there isn’t river anywhere

Maemae on June 11th, 2005 2:39 am
Arubagirl, have you heard anything from locals that you think may be true about the location of a body or crime scene, etc?

Jay on June 11th, 2005 2:39 am
Wait a second…no confession, but now they’re going to let the security guards go? Sounds to me like Prime Minister wants to be able to tell the family he did not know the information was released, so he’s doing all he can to put the worms back in the can

frankdags on June 11th, 2005 2:39 am
From Fox News Channel.

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:40 am
Mae, you won’t believe the zillion theories that have been floating around. Everything from a hired hit to runway teen and all that could be in between.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 2:41 am
nope till now they are still saying it ain’t true as far as i know
even police scanners are pretty silent

frankdags on June 11th, 2005 2:41 am
There is no Confesssion as of yet.

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:42 am
Yeah, sorry about that frankdags, don’t get fox channel at my house.

Tom on June 11th, 2005 2:42 am
FOX NEWS SCROLL : NO CONFESSION MADE IN NATALEE HOLLOWAY MURDER!!!
Abraham Jones will be released tomorow !
Reports of a search for a body are false.
!!!Tom Opinion!!! Rumors of CNN annoying Aruban officials may be true. I wonder if CNN was set up on this? !!!Tom Opinion!!!!

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 2:43 am
well the stories of the boys are what got them arrested in the first place wich was pretty far fedged from a guy black in a black pants and black t-shirt with a radio in his hand
these security guars wear white uniform shirt and black pants

Courtney on June 11th, 2005 2:43 am
The thing about this is… it’s 2:45AM. Most people in the US are sleeping right now, and will never know about this confession, no confession, blah blah blah… and tomorrow people will wake up and either this will go away by then and they will go back to saying “We are still holding out hope” or they will be able to say they found her dead or alive…

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:43 am
I’m thinking that she’s dead, but a part of me doesn’t want to believe it. But if CNN broke it withought worrying about the fam. daaaaaaamn. That’s cold. I thought that usually dead people aren’t revealed until the families are contacted, etc. At least that’s what I hear about the Iraqi casualties.

Tiptoes on June 11th, 2005 2:44 am
Fox and CNN just confirmed. Confessions are true

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:45 am
Tom, if that happened, I will laugh very loudly. I hope that’s what happened.

Jim on June 11th, 2005 2:48 am
I think tricking CNN into putting up a story is the lowest thing anyone could do. Imagine all her friends, family, etc that would see that story.
Arubagirl, it’s not just CNN that is cold, they all do it. If the story brings ratings, they don’t care who it hurts. So you ask if CNN is cold enough to do something like that, yes.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 2:49 am
well we only see cnn
foxnews you need satilite dish

frankdags on June 11th, 2005 2:50 am
Bottom line. From my experiences and working with prior investigators I trust that the Aruba police along with the FBI will figure out in a sensible way how to advise NH’S Family the truth. I don’t think by back-stabbing Aruba and everyone else in between is going to solve anything. Lets not forget, that this could be anyones daughter.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 2:51 am
Good point

jessibobessy on June 11th, 2005 2:52 am
I am watching fox…..they have not confirmed that the confession story is true

dragonfly on June 11th, 2005 2:52 am
I’m still not seeing any retraction from CNN and everything else I see quotes the whole “something bad happened” and still says LE are being led to a crime scene. Still sounds to me like CNN was right from the beginning. I wish that weren’t true, but it looks that way.

frankdags on June 11th, 2005 2:52 am
For the record, Fox news has stated that No Confession has been made. Therefore, Fox never recanted that a Confession was made.

Tiptoes on June 11th, 2005 2:53 am
CNN interrupted it’s scheduled programing 6 min ago to announce confession and FoxNews is running the marqee. No one is retracting the confession.

Jerry on June 11th, 2005 2:53 am
What is the punishment for murder in Aruba?

jessibobessy on June 11th, 2005 2:54 am
I don’t like fox news, but last night they were the only one to have a live feed going all night long from aruba. I find them to be most accurate on some stories…….unless it deals with politics. Then i find them way biased!

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:55 am
Depends on the crime. The most I’ve ever seen someone get was 20 years. For hiring someone to kill their sister

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 2:55 am
i am not sure
something of 20 to life i think

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:57 am
Local, I’ve never heard anyone getting life here. I think Nazi murders and the like have gotten life. Of course, It’s 3 am, and my brain isn’t in its top condition.

jessibobessy on June 11th, 2005 2:58 am
Fox is Not running the news that she is DEAD and that the kid confessed on the ticker……..cnn is and at 1:04 am fox did in fact come out and say that the info was to be retacted

Jim on June 11th, 2005 2:58 am
He’s 17, so he might not even be tried as an adult. He could get a few years and that’s it. If anyone from Aruba has info on how they treat crimes by minors, it would informative. The reports in the US have said that their punishments are relaxed compared to ours.
CNN is the one that broke the story, and they haven’t budged. I’m guessing everyone is copying CNN and that people are just a little scared to fully admit it. I’m assuming CNN has a stong source and not backing down.
I also have another question. I know in the US you aren’t supposed to list minors names. Does this not take place in other countries, or is our media not required to abide by those restrictions out of the country?

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:58 am
But for this case, they’re going to throw the book at them.
I know that the Dutch Kingdom (=Aruba) has an extradition treaty with the U.S., but I’m fairly show that that only deals with crimes perpetrated on American soil.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 2:59 am
Abogado lejue segunmi a bisa esey dra

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 3:00 am
On the name issue, I think it was CNN that first ran the names, and the local media was once again pissed, because the cops wouldn’t release the names to them, and yet it was all over U.S. news. Usually we don’t get this much detail about the names. It’s usually initials or first name and last name initial.

[b]arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 3:01 am [/b]
The lawyer for one of the Sec. Guards said that 20 to life was max. Ch3

dragonfly on June 11th, 2005 3:01 am
Top of the hour news on CNN still that one of the young men confessed. Absolutely no retraction by them.

Rick on June 11th, 2005 3:02 am
No! FOX isn’t reporting “NO” confession… that’s just a phrase that was on their screen, not the whole story:
FOX’s reporter in Aruba said that the Holloway family was taken to the police station late tonight and was in tears following. That the police higher-ups were locked down in meetings and that a confession was made.
He went on to say that others in the police dept and the PM are denying that a confession was made. For what it’s worth, as of this message, CNN is still sticking to the story….
FOX’s reporter theorizes that the confession was made and was reported to Natalee’s family, but that the government made a promise to the family to hold that information for a short time. It could also be a ploy to keep media away from the search for the body tonight or tomorrow.
It was also reported that Joran was not in his cell and that he was leading police to the body…

Jay on June 11th, 2005 3:02 am
the cnn report is a replay, they keep showing the same thing they’ve shown

arubian person on June 11th, 2005 3:03 am
According to a call from a taxi driver to the station TOP FM from aruba the new is true..
The Taxi driver was present at the Holiday Hotel when the family was informed…


LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 3:04 am
People good night i am signing off
Good luck
Hope she still alive

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 3:04 am
Jim, I’m very emphatically telling you that no one is getting of this. Not out of this specific crime. I’m not saying that corruption never happens on the island, but I’m telling you that in this specific case, they’re going to ask for the maximum, and the older two are going to get it. As for the minor, I have NO idea how they are going to deal with his case.

frankdags on June 11th, 2005 3:04 am
One more thing if he had internet conversations with NH yes he can be extradited to the US.

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 3:06 am
On what grounds, frankdaq?

Jay on June 11th, 2005 3:06 am
oooo, msnbc is about to interview vandersluts mom in a few minutes

frankdags on June 11th, 2005 3:08 am
There is a Highly regarded source that prior to the trip internet conversations were indeed held between some of the students prior to their arrival. Good night all.

dragonfly on June 11th, 2005 3:08 am
I think the story that CNN broke was true. I agree that they probably did not expect it to hit so fast and furiously and expected the family would have time to get in contact with family and friends in US before TV and internet were flooded with the news. It’s the middle of the night. I think then they were trying to close the can of worms, but it was a little late for that. Maybe also protecting a crime scene. But, I do believe the information was correct. Someone messed up by informing CNN when they did, not giving the family time, or maybe CNN agreed to sit on it for a little while and didn’t.

Jim on June 11th, 2005 3:09 am
The Internet conversations was not a crime, therefore extradition is not possible. It is where the crime took place.

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 3:09 am
Guys, I’m signing off, nursing a flu bug here. Hope that she’s alive, but I have little hope. It’s been a pleasure.

Linda on June 11th, 2005 3:09 am
Before I came to work tonight, Fox News had a video(at 9:45PM DST) showing Joran’s mother in the lobby of the police station–Fox wasn’t sure whether she was there to see her son or a detective but something was happening. It must have something to do with the press releases later.
I’ve been to Aruba twice and going back in October–I love the island–always had a grat time with no problems–All the locals we encountered were very friendly and accommodating.
We,ve travelled all over the entire island–there are many places her body could have been placed.
What a shame–by the way–for those wondering about Natalee’s biol. father–I believe he a prestigeous person–knows Pres. Bush and if you look up Holloway on the internet–you will see the name goes way back in the prestige and money line.

LocalFemale on June 11th, 2005 3:10 am
Ps Us cannot ask for them to be extridited but Aruba can offer to send them there
being it a big media case. but Us cannot ask for that since it happend on Aruba grounds and not us

jessibobessy on June 11th, 2005 3:10 am
I am watching fox, i heard the reporter……i am stating what the ticker says. cnn is not live ,fox is…..that was my point and at one point fox said that aruban officials were retracting that story and sending” mixed signals”…..that happened before the live report. Do people get on this site to get info or to be right??? I came for info!

Red on June 11th, 2005 3:11 am
Good night Aruba Girl, get well.

Jay on June 11th, 2005 3:11 am 
MSNBC is the best station to be watching. they’re live and about to talk to van der sloots mother

Rick on June 11th, 2005 3:16 am
Jessie - Yes, several government and police sources are ‘retracting’ but the FOX reporter and CNN still claim that it was stated earlier that a confession was made.
I think the backpedaling is not on the part of the person reporting the confession, but the govt either protecting the family or crime scene.
So a confession was made - and reported by AP and CNN and FOX - and some people are claiming it wasn’t..

dragonfly on June 11th, 2005 3:18 am
The interviews with the mother are not live on msnbc, but the latest news before the interview was that “some sort of confession” was made but no confirmation that she is dead as of yet and no search for body as of yet.

jessibobessy on June 11th, 2005 3:21 am
okay, rick, but only cnn is saying that she is dead and it sucks that her family had to hear that in such a manner. msnbc even says some sort of a confession was made and i am not argueing that……all i am saying is that it is not “confirmed” that she is dead and he confessed to murder.

arubian person on June 11th, 2005 3:24 am
There is a rumour going around that she did died from an overdose and was hastily buried…
However we have to wait in the forensics after the body is found…
This might be the best scenario for thes boys ,however if there were directly involved
in murder then they can be extridited to US via the Dutch.
In this case I the dead penalty will not be enough for all the damage that was done on Aruba reputation in the world

Nate on June 11th, 2005 3:26 am
Where’d you hear the rumor?

Gabriel Leo on June 11th, 2005 3:26 am
I have been reading the comments and some people want to know what’s the law here
This is the law:
One who takes the life of a human beeing gets a max of 15 years (in Dutch law terms this is called doodslag). In this situation his intention were to murder but was not planning to do so.
Murder (”Moord”) Gets 20 years to life in jail. This is called premeditated murder. The premeditation has to be proven that before he is judged on these term. e.g. one has been planning for days to murder someone. Was following the victim, bought weapons, had and escape plan etc.
One who is murdered as a result of abuse e.g. was in fight and the attacker atacked the victim until he or she passed away gets a max of 12 years (”Levensberoving op verzoek”)
Those who were involved in the acts get a punishment somewhere from 3 years up to 12 years depending on the role the had with the acts.
A minor gets a low jail sentence but can be tried as an adult if there is enough proof of such.
Aruba is a part of the Ducth Kindom and therefor has the same Law as the Netherlands on Criminal grounds. This counts for Aruba, the Netherlands Antilles and The Netherlands.
On another note: Nothing is confirmed, there are so many rumors, international media is changing their stories and the local media says that nothing is confirmed and authorities deny giving such info to the international press.
I am confidend that tomorrow this entire case wil come to and end. so until than. Everyone hold on.

wow, good play-by-play,
haven't read that page in a looong time ...
thanks for posting it

wonder if the radio station pulled the plug voluntarily,
or ...

Or... ::MonkeyWink::

Great thread Finngirl. ::MonkeyDance::

Thanks for the good read.  I was up all night .