Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Natalee Holloway => LCD Archive => Topic started by: San on April 03, 2008, 09:03:39 PM



Title: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: San on April 03, 2008, 09:03:39 PM
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Natalee2.swf


JUSTICE FOR NATALEE


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: hotping on April 04, 2008, 12:34:08 AM
You're Welcome Casa!  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dihannah1 on April 04, 2008, 12:56:20 AM
Hi friends,  stopping in to catch up.  Great News about the civil suit!  Go Beth!   I pray this is it!

Casa, you and family in prayers.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 04, 2008, 04:36:02 AM
Prayers for Casa, and all in the path of bad weather.

Getting ready to head to work for the weekend. I'm hoping and Praying that the civil suit, opens doors to Justice for Natalee and Family.

Carry on Monkeys...you all Rock!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 04, 2008, 06:30:26 AM
Diario Stats as of 6:28 AM Eastern US time....still no new news...but Netherlands up from yesterday.


 Mar   Apr 08   May
S   M   T   W   T   F   S
      1     2     3     4     5
  6     7     8     9   10   11   12
13   14   15   16   17   18   19
20   21   22   23   24   25   26
27   28   29   30   
SVTechie Technology
Statistics
Visits yesterday:    3474
Visits today:    553
Visits total:    280801
Today 's Top 5
    57 %    Netherlands
    23 %    Unknown
    10 %    Aruba
    7 %    networks
    3 %    Commercial
We have 58 guests online



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tater on April 04, 2008, 06:34:21 AM
Prayers for Casa, and all in the path of bad weather.

Getting ready to head to work for the weekend. I'm hoping and Praying that the civil suit, opens doors to Justice for Natalee and Family.

Carry on Monkeys...you all Rock!

I agree..(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-10/867511/YouRock.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: ldstlou on April 04, 2008, 07:17:54 AM
Good Morning Monkeys!!
Still rain, rain, rain here!! Stopped by to see a bit of spring, just love my new avi!!
Careful to all Monkeys having storms and have a great day all!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 04, 2008, 07:19:52 AM
Still getting ready to leave the house...was surfing a little...don't know if this has been posted...interesting link to an small elite group of property owners in Aruba...

http://surfsidevillas.com/index.php?board=3.0

exerpt from site:

Aruba Racquet Club is now proudly offering its latest master community, Surfside Villas, clustered around Aruba's 8-court Racquet Club site, Aruba's Southwestern coast.

 This new and exiting residential area is just two miles away from Tierra del Sol, an 18-hole course designed by golfing legend Robert Trent Jones. One of Aruba’s most popular beaches, Fishermen Huts, home of the Aruba Hi-Winds Pro-Am Windsurf Competition is
within a short walking distance from Surfside Villas.
The island’s most fabulous high-rise resorts, their glittering casinos, showrooms and gourmet restaurants lie beckoning just outside Surfside Villas gate.

The development enjoys a truly unique location. The existing Aruba Racquet Club, established into the heart of the residence. By the time it is completely remodeled Aruba Racquet Club will offer besides the 8-court tennis area, a practice area, a beautiful landscaped swimming pool, modern club house, convenient parking, a cocktail lounge, restaurants, professional basketball, volleyball, squash court, and even a court for petanque, better known as “bollas” in the Caribbean. The facility will also encompass a fitness club, an activity area and a cleverly laid-out children’s playground.
Home-owners at Surfside Villas will naturally have access to all facilities for reduced prices, for as often and as long as they wish. (A small maintenance fee will be posted at the end of each month to help with the upkeep of all public spaces.)

Surfside Villas consists of 35 plots of land ranging in size from 500 to 900 square meters and easily accessible via a paved road.

On the developer’s drawing board you’ll find out different, beautifully designed Caribbean Villas, conceived by well-known architect, Orlando Hoevertsz, a contributor to the Radisson Aruba Caribbean Resort project. Each architectural drawing will be accompanied by a detailed list of features. Additionally, Surfside Villas guarantees that the area will be exclusively dedicated to family home, protecting the beauty and integrity of the site.

At Surfside Villas, great attention has been placed to detail. The plants in your front yard will be fully grown by the time your family moves in. Natural materials have been selected for construction such as; brick stones and decorative wrought iron. The exterior of the homes will display rustic plaster, in attractive earthy tones. Comfort, luxury and exquisite taste combined here to offer you an opportunity of a lifetime, a high quality living at an affordable price.

Your signature, on a provisional purchase agreement and a 10% down payment is all it takes to make your dream of owning a charming Caribbean Villa, true. The agreement will stipulate the rest of the purchase information.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 04, 2008, 07:25:11 AM
Good Morning Monkeys!!
Still rain, rain, rain here!! Stopped by to see a bit of spring, just love my new avi!!
Careful to all Monkeys having storms and have a great day all!!

Hoping you get some sunshine soon!  Your new AVI makes me smile too ;-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tater on April 04, 2008, 07:38:57 AM
Good Morning Monkeys!!
Still rain, rain, rain here!! Stopped by to see a bit of spring, just love my new avi!!
Careful to all Monkeys having storms and have a great day all!!

I like your new avi too!! ::MonkeyWink::

Here is your Spring..(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-10/867511/digger.gif)




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: MumInOhio on April 04, 2008, 08:01:55 AM
Still getting ready to leave the house...was surfing a little...don't know if this has been posted...interesting link to an small elite group of property owners in Aruba...

http://surfsidevillas.com/index.php?board=3.0

exerpt from site:

Aruba Racquet Club is now proudly offering its latest master community, Surfside Villas, clustered around Aruba's 8-court Racquet Club site, Aruba's Southwestern coast.

 This new and exiting residential area is just two miles away from Tierra del Sol, an 18-hole course designed by golfing legend Robert Trent Jones. One of Aruba’s most popular beaches, Fishermen Huts, home of the Aruba Hi-Winds Pro-Am Windsurf Competition is
within a short walking distance from Surfside Villas.
The island’s most fabulous high-rise resorts, their glittering casinos, showrooms and gourmet restaurants lie beckoning just outside Surfside Villas gate.

The development enjoys a truly unique location. The existing Aruba Racquet Club, established into the heart of the residence. By the time it is completely remodeled Aruba Racquet Club will offer besides the 8-court tennis area, a practice area, a beautiful landscaped swimming pool, modern club house, convenient parking, a cocktail lounge, restaurants, professional basketball, volleyball, squash court, and even a court for petanque, better known as “bollas” in the Caribbean. The facility will also encompass a fitness club, an activity area and a cleverly laid-out children’s playground.
Home-owners at Surfside Villas will naturally have access to all facilities for reduced prices, for as often and as long as they wish. (A small maintenance fee will be posted at the end of each month to help with the upkeep of all public spaces.)

Surfside Villas consists of 35 plots of land ranging in size from 500 to 900 square meters and easily accessible via a paved road.

On the developer’s drawing board you’ll find out different, beautifully designed Caribbean Villas, conceived by well-known architect, Orlando Hoevertsz, a contributor to the Radisson Aruba Caribbean Resort project. Each architectural drawing will be accompanied by a detailed list of features. Additionally, Surfside Villas guarantees that the area will be exclusively dedicated to family home, protecting the beauty and integrity of the site.

At Surfside Villas, great attention has been placed to detail. The plants in your front yard will be fully grown by the time your family moves in. Natural materials have been selected for construction such as; brick stones and decorative wrought iron. The exterior of the homes will display rustic plaster, in attractive earthy tones. Comfort, luxury and exquisite taste combined here to offer you an opportunity of a lifetime, a high quality living at an affordable price.

Your signature, on a provisional purchase agreement and a 10% down payment is all it takes to make your dream of owning a charming Caribbean Villa, true. The agreement will stipulate the rest of the purchase information.



Thank You Destiny....I am collecting as much info as I can on the Racquet Club...this is a good one! ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: ldstlou on April 04, 2008, 09:31:28 AM
Good Morning Monkeys!!
Still rain, rain, rain here!! Stopped by to see a bit of spring, just love my new avi!!
Careful to all Monkeys having storms and have a great day all!!

Hoping you get some sunshine soon!  Your new AVI makes me smile too ;-)

Thank you destiny!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: ldstlou on April 04, 2008, 09:32:57 AM
Good Morning Monkeys!!
Still rain, rain, rain here!! Stopped by to see a bit of spring, just love my new avi!!
Careful to all Monkeys having storms and have a great day all!!

I like your new avi too!! ::MonkeyWink::

Here is your Spring..(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-10/867511/digger.gif)

thanks tot!! my roof is leaking and can't get it fixed until the rain stops...it won't stop!!
 ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyConfused::





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 04, 2008, 09:53:23 AM
On Peter R. de Vries website:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/DeVries040308.jpg)

Family Joran summonsed

Mother Natalee demands compensation

 
The mother of Natalee Holloway, the whole family sued Van der Sloot.

Beth Twitty's lawyers Bram Moszkowicz and Roger Schmidt want Joran and his parents to court to be heard under oath about their role in the disappearance of the American teenager. That De Telegraaf reported.

The summonses are part of a series injunction. Beth Twitty requires a high damages from Joran van der Sloot.

She is convinced that he was involved in the disappearance of Natalee in Aruba in May 2005.

The American demands satisfaction for the "shockschade" that Joran has inflicted her.

http://www.peterrdevries.nl/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 04, 2008, 10:19:47 AM
On Peter R. de Vries website:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/DeVries040308.jpg)

Family Joran summonsed

Mother Natalee demands compensation

 
The mother of Natalee Holloway, the whole family sued Van der Sloot.

Beth Twitty's lawyers Bram Moszkowicz and Roger Schmidt want Joran and his parents to court to be heard under oath about their role in the disappearance of the American teenager. That De Telegraaf reported.

The summonses are part of a series injunction. Beth Twitty requires a high damages from Joran van der Sloot.

She is convinced that he was involved in the disappearance of Natalee in Aruba in May 2005.

The American demands satisfaction for the "shockschade" that Joran has inflicted her.

http://www.peterrdevries.nl/

Thanks Klaas.

Nothing about Peter Devries himself and Patrick van der Eem being served also.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 04, 2008, 10:23:12 AM
Janet - my guess is that if Peter and Patrick are summoned in this case it will be as witnesses for the prosecution. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 04, 2008, 10:28:34 AM
Janet - my guess is that if Peter and Patrick are summoned in this case it will be as witnesses for the prosecution. 

Makes sense.

Good Morning Monkeys.

Janet
7:30 AM


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: dennisintn on April 04, 2008, 10:36:06 AM
Janet - my guess is that if Peter and Patrick are summoned in this case it will be as witnesses for the prosecution. 

i think they should also subpoena steve croes, jan van straaten, karen janssen, and anyone else who was involved in the original lies and coverup.  all these people, and probably more, either helped voluntarily or were duped into helping keep natalee's fate and whereabouts a secret.
dennisintn


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 04, 2008, 10:37:26 AM
Hubby and I were just watching the coverage regarding this tornado on CNN.  It is unbelieveable that there were no fatalities.

Has anybody heard from Casa this morning?

Janet

++++++++++++


Tornado Rips Through Little Rock, Ark., Damaging Airport; Injuries Reported
Friday, April 04, 2008
Associated Press


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,346293,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,4644,3707,00.html

http://www.fox16.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=ddc0b7a5-9aa0-45c0-8fa5-102eae5db558

http://www.weatherinarkansas.com/hw3.php?config=&forecast=stormreports&alt=stormreportsus&config=&hour=24&region=AR


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 04, 2008, 10:42:54 AM
O/T sortof - sound familiar?

http://www.outlookindia.com:80/pti_news.asp?id=559020

National
SCARLETT-NCW
Goan Police shielding some people involved Scarlett murder: NCW

New Delhi, Apr 2 (PTI) The National Commission for Women (NCW) today said there are major lapses in the probe into the murder of British teenager Scarlett Eden Keeling and the Goan Police was trying to shield some people involved in the incident.

Taking a suo moto cognisance of the case, a two-member team of the NCW headed by its member Nirmala Venkatesh went to Goa and investigated the matter.

"There is a total police failure in Goa. Police are trying to cover up the real issue. There could be drug cartel that may be operational. We have gathered that the police are trying to shield some people involved in the incident," Venkatesh told reporters here, adding that there are major lapses on the part of police in the investigation.

"Commission cannot say whether those involved are influential or not but there is something incorrect that is for sure," Venketesh said.

Regarding the lapses in the probe, she said the viscera of the victim was sent to a forensic laboratory after a substantial delay of 15 days.

"The commission believes that this was deliberate so that the semen could not be used for the test which was very vital in a rape case," she said.

Scarlett was allegedly drugged, raped and murdered on the Anjuna beach on February 18.

"We feel that there should be women security officials at the Goa airport. There should be posters and banners and enough publicity for the awareness of tourists," Venketesh added.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: casa on April 04, 2008, 10:44:03 AM
Hubby and I were just watching the coverage regarding this tornado on CNN.  It is unbelieveable that there were no fatalities.

Has anybody heard from Casa this morning?

Janet

++++++++++++


Tornado Rips Through Little Rock, Ark., Damaging Airport; Injuries Reported
Friday, April 04, 2008
Associated Press


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,346293,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,4644,3707,00.html

http://www.fox16.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=ddc0b7a5-9aa0-45c0-8fa5-102eae5db558

http://www.weatherinarkansas.com/hw3.php?config=&forecast=stormreports&alt=stormreportsus&config=&hour=24&region=AR

Thanks Janet for thinking about me!  I am fine and at work.  It is dark here and raining but no tornados!  Last nights storms went above me, but I have a friend in Little Rock and my "adopted son" is in college in Conway, AR.  I have talked to both of them and they are ok and have no damage.  It is such a blessing that no one was killed in this storms! 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 04, 2008, 10:51:18 AM
Casa - thanks for checking in!  Great news about your friends and "adopted son"!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: crazybabyborg on April 04, 2008, 11:03:24 AM
Klaas? Check message, please?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 04, 2008, 11:06:25 AM
Hi and Good Morning,

Hey, I have been thinking about Beth's civil suit and maybe I'm wrong, but I believe the suit is Beth only and not Dave. The suit is for "shockschade" - "emotional distress" caused by the Van Der Sloots and the Kalpoes. Those are the accused parties. No others will be accused in this instance. Corruption and other elements will have to wait their turn to be heard in a future suit or trial.

The suit is not for the loss of future income Natalee may have earned or the intentional / unintentional death of Natalee. This suit is aimed at the damaged caused to BETH due to the actions of the accused.

At this point, due to the known evidence a suit involving the other parameters will not be heard and could not proceed due to the lack of evidence establishing who did what and who did what after Natalee became deceased.

again, all just my opinion... maybe we'll know more shortly and the matter will be set straight.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Peaches on April 04, 2008, 11:36:30 AM
Good morning.

I think the suit is all about DISCOVERY.......

Not about monetary reward or damages.  Not about making a criminal case. 

It's about obtaining testimony under oath  that will leave no doubt as to who is responsible for the disappearance of Natalee.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 04, 2008, 11:42:08 AM
Janet - my guess is that if Peter and Patrick are summoned in this case it will be as witnesses for the prosecution. 

i think they should also subpoena steve croes, jan van straaten, karen janssen, and anyone else who was involved in the original lies and coverup.  all these people, and probably more, either helped voluntarily or were duped into helping keep natalee's fate and whereabouts a secret.
dennisintn

dennis

I agree 100%.   However ... I cannot comprehend why Deepak and Satish are not being served.

Also ... the gardener should be appear as a witness.  He identified Joran and Deepak in an Aruban court as sitting in Deepak vehicle across the street from the Marriot at 2:30 AM on the morning of May 30, 2005.

Then there is Freddy.  His witness statement that revealed what Joran had related to him regarding the events encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005 and ... who were present.

Then there are Jug and Beth's friends as well as Paulus' interrogator  who could testify regarding in regards to Paulus' changing stories that relate to the 4:00 MacDonald's pickup on the morning of May 30, 2005..

Janet

+++++++++++

Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
July 26, 2005


MANSUR: Because they were trying to hide their faces at that the hour, because we have to remember that the two Kalpoe brothers and Joran held on to the statement that they dropped Joran off at the beach and then went home. But here we have someone that says categorically that they did not go home, they were in the car with Joran. Joran was sitting in the driver`s seat.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/26/ng.01.html


Freddy Arambatzis
Witness Statement
De Zaak Natalee Holloway
June 12, 2005


<snipped>

The next day, Tuesday May 31st 2005 in the afternoon, I was with Joran at the raquetclub. Joran looked worried. He asked me if I could remember what he had said the previous day about the girl. I told him yes. The girl had gone missing. The FBI had been to his house during the night but he had not been home. His father had called him to find out where he was, Joran said that he was in the Raddison Casino. He told he that after that phone call he was called on the phone by Deepak and that Deepak picked him up a few minutes later. They drove to Joran's house. The FBI and the girls family were at his house. After that Joran told me that Deepak, Satish and himself did not drop off the girl at the Holiday Inn Hotel, but that THE FOUR OF THEM drove to the beach at the north side of the Marriot Hotel. The girl had fallen several times on the way to the beach. Joran told me that at some point she "no longer came around/no longer regained consciousness" and that THEY had left her on the beach. He also told me that he had left his gym/sporting shoes on the beach. After Joran had told me this, I asked him why he had left her there. He answered me that at that moment he had not known what to do. Joran told me that after this HE WAS DROPPED OFF AT HOME BY DEEPAK AND SATISH.
TranslationCredit: Rammstein


Lt. Roland Tromp - Interrogator
CBS NEWS
August 5, 2005


Tromp, who declined to provide details about exactly what investigators believe happened to Holloway, said that Paul van der Sloot has also changed his account the night Holloway vanished. "Why should you do that if you are telling the truth?" he said

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/05/world/main763210_page2.shtml

http://wcbstv.com/topstories/Aruba.Natalee.Holloway.2.256295.html


Superior Court Ruling
January, 2007

 
The possible involvement of Paulus with that could then be deducted from the file with the official reports of witnesses, amongst which two people suggested a contact existed between Paulus and Natalee Holloway the night of her disappearance, and a taped report (that was given by the Prosecutor in her final note 1 to the Court). The taped information and his declaration that he picked up Joran and Natalee by the McDonalds Palm Beach and brought them to the Holiday Inn, are clearly understood by the Dept. of Justice, and could in the judgement of this Superior Court, be considered as an indication of the involvement of Paulus in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 04, 2008, 11:49:22 AM
Hubby and I were just watching the coverage regarding this tornado on CNN.  It is unbelieveable that there were no fatalities.

Has anybody heard from Casa this morning?

Janet

++++++++++++


Tornado Rips Through Little Rock, Ark., Damaging Airport; Injuries Reported
Friday, April 04, 2008
Associated Press


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,346293,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,4644,3707,00.html

http://www.fox16.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=ddc0b7a5-9aa0-45c0-8fa5-102eae5db558

http://www.weatherinarkansas.com/hw3.php?config=&forecast=stormreports&alt=stormreportsus&config=&hour=24&region=AR

Thanks Janet for thinking about me!  I am fine and at work.  It is dark here and raining but no tornados!  Last nights storms went above me, but I have a friend in Little Rock and my "adopted son" is in college in Conway, AR.  I have talked to both of them and they are ok and have no damage.  It is such a blessing that no one was killed in this storms! 

Casa ... I am thankful all is well with you and your loved ones.  I can only imagine the terror of having to experience a tornado.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: crazybabyborg on April 04, 2008, 12:22:19 PM
I'm glad you and yours are safe Casa!!!! Ive seen the coverage on the news, and that was a dangerous tornado!

Now, if I can just determine it's safe to be here with both Klaas and Tamik...........    ::MonkeyHaHa::  ::MonkeyWink::



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 04, 2008, 12:31:35 PM
I'm glad you and yours are safe Casa!!!! Ive seen the coverage on the news, and that was a dangerous tornado!

Now, if I can just determine it's safe to be here with both Klaas and Tamik...........    ::MonkeyHaHa::  ::MonkeyWink::



cbb ... just one little change and ... Ducky and I would be forever grateful ....

Never mind.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

I hope you have a good day cbb.  In about a couple of hours ... I am taking off for a 45 minute drive to my daughter's community.  Lunch at her favorite Japanese restaurant is where it is at.  With the committments that are associated with raising four children (4-10) ... these lunch dates are few and far between.

Janet
9:30 AM


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dayhiker on April 04, 2008, 12:37:06 PM
Good morning.

I think the suit is all about DISCOVERY.......

Not about monetary reward or damages.  Not about making a criminal case. 

It's about obtaining testimony under oath  that will leave no doubt as to who is responsible for the disappearance of Natalee.




Morning Peaches! I agree here. The lawsuit is about discovery that can open many doors. First off, it will probably damage Aruba more than the Van der Sloots because it will lay the corruption wide open. Joran's missing statements are fair game as he laid out the seizures in his confession. Jannsen, Van der Straten and Jacobs can be summoned to account for those statements. Corruption will be proven and out in the open!

As for the Van der Sloots, what else do they have to lose that they haven't already? Joran is already considered a rapist and murderer already wherever he goes. Paulus is overwhelming believed to be the one who orchestrated Natalee's disposal. Anita and Paulus are looked up as miserable failures as parents and citizens. Nevertheless, they can be dragged deeper than they already are and can lose money that they probably don't have.

All of Joran's lies will be laid bare for the world to see, and there are a buttload of them. I believe they can subpoena his legal bills as a matter of course, this is typical and could expose who has been paying Tacopina along with the Aruban and Dutch lawyers. This could even even more corruption if those bills have been paid by the Aruban government (ATA, AHATA) or known Mafia figures which Joe T. has been very well known to associate with.

The lawsuit will expose the corruption on Aruba (Jannsen, Straten and Jacobs primarily) further hurting their tourism, reinforce Joran as a rapist and killer, confirm Paulus' involvement, and further drag the Van der Sloots into their rightful place among the dregs of humanity. JMHO.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: caesu on April 04, 2008, 01:29:29 PM
Quote
PM astonished by Fitna debate reactions

Friday 04 April 2008

Prime minister Jan Peter Balkenende said on Friday that he was astonished by the reactions to this week's parliamentary debate on Geert Wilders' anti-Koran film Fitna.

During Tuesday's debate, ministers made public cabinet documents which proved that Wilders had been planning to show pages being torn from the Koran in his film. The notes were made after meetings between ministers and Wilders last year.

But Wilders described the notes as rubbish and accused ministers of lying.

Speaking on the fringes of the Nato summit in Bucharest, Balkenende said he had never come across such a reaction to official documents during his years as prime minister. It was not a question of differing interpretation of the facts, he said. The notes are 'as clear as day'.

Justice minister Ernst Hirsch Ballin and home affairs minister Guusje ter Horst, who were also at the meeting, also denied Wilders' accusations. 'It is the facts that count,' said Hirsch Ballin. 'There is nothing untrue about my statement.'

A number of online polls show that many people believe Wilders rather than the ministers is telling the truth.

Furthermore, independent MP Rita Verdonk had got it 'quite wrong' when she accused him of weakening the right to freedom of expression in the Fitna affair, Balkenende said.

The cabinet had put nothing in the way of the film's release, he argued. 'We are pleased that we were so well prepared, but that has nothing to do with freedom of expression,' news agency ANP reported the prime minister as saying.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/04/pm_astonished_by_fitna_debate.php

this scandal seems to get larger every day.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: dennisintn on April 04, 2008, 02:06:17 PM
O/T sortof - sound familiar?

http://www.outlookindia.com:80/pti_news.asp?id=559020

National
SCARLETT-NCW
Goan Police shielding some people involved Scarlett murder: NCW

New Delhi, Apr 2 (PTI) The National Commission for Women (NCW) today said there are major lapses in the probe into the murder of British teenager Scarlett Eden Keeling and the Goan Police was trying to shield some people involved in the incident.

Taking a suo moto cognisance of the case, a two-member team of the NCW headed by its member Nirmala Venkatesh went to Goa and investigated the matter.

"There is a total police failure in Goa. Police are trying to cover up the real issue. There could be drug cartel that may be operational. We have gathered that the police are trying to shield some people involved in the incident," Venkatesh told reporters here, adding that there are major lapses on the part of police in the investigation.

"Commission cannot say whether those involved are influential or not but there is something incorrect that is for sure," Venketesh said.

Regarding the lapses in the probe, she said the viscera of the victim was sent to a forensic laboratory after a substantial delay of 15 days.

"The commission believes that this was deliberate so that the semen could not be used for the test which was very vital in a rape case," she said.

Scarlett was allegedly drugged, raped and murdered on the Anjuna beach on February 18.

"We feel that there should be women security officials at the Goa airport. There should be posters and banners and enough publicity for the awareness of tourists," Venketesh added.




wow, sounds like briesen actually understated the case when he said aruba was now the model for investigations in crimes against tourists in the carib countries.   looks like he could have even included india in that statement.
dennisintn


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 04, 2008, 02:16:49 PM
Quote
PM astonished by Fitna debate reactions

Friday 04 April 2008

Prime minister Jan Peter Balkenende said on Friday that he was astonished by the reactions to this week's parliamentary debate on Geert Wilders' anti-Koran film Fitna.

During Tuesday's debate, ministers made public cabinet documents which proved that Wilders had been planning to show pages being torn from the Koran in his film. The notes were made after meetings between ministers and Wilders last year.

But Wilders described the notes as rubbish and accused ministers of lying.

Speaking on the fringes of the Nato summit in Bucharest, Balkenende said he had never come across such a reaction to official documents during his years as prime minister. It was not a question of differing interpretation of the facts, he said. The notes are 'as clear as day'.

Justice minister Ernst Hirsch Ballin and home affairs minister Guusje ter Horst, who were also at the meeting, also denied Wilders' accusations. 'It is the facts that count,' said Hirsch Ballin. 'There is nothing untrue about my statement.'

A number of online polls show that many people believe Wilders rather than the ministers is telling the truth.

Furthermore, independent MP Rita Verdonk had got it 'quite wrong' when she accused him of weakening the right to freedom of expression in the Fitna affair, Balkenende said.

The cabinet had put nothing in the way of the film's release, he argued. 'We are pleased that we were so well prepared, but that has nothing to do with freedom of expression,' news agency ANP reported the prime minister as saying.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/04/pm_astonished_by_fitna_debate.php

this scandal seems to get larger every day.

Apparently ... freedom of speech is questioned is debated in a democratically elected parliament if Islam is undermind.  However ... freedom of speech is a unchallenged right afforded Islam to degrade everything that is sacred to American right on their own soil.

The double standard is either nothing but politically correct appeasement or ... it is fear of an ideology that will react with violence rather than dialogue.

The democracies of the free world are being held hostage to this ideology with a global agenda and ... ultimately the realization that the price of appeasement is giving more strength to the enemy.

Janet

++++++++++++

U.S. Based Revolution Muslim Website Spreading Messages of Hate
Wednesday, March 26, 2008


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,341811,00.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 04, 2008, 02:21:56 PM
Pardon the interruption...but does anyone know how to find a list of all the street names in Aruba?  I would really like to have a list, please. TIA


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 04, 2008, 02:34:55 PM
Pardon the interruption...but does anyone know how to find a list of all the street names in Aruba?  I would really like to have a list, please. TIA

Lala's I've never found one online.  Capslock may be your best resource.  There may be something he can scan and send to you?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 04, 2008, 02:49:51 PM
Pardon the interruption...but does anyone know how to find a list of all the street names in Aruba?  I would really like to have a list, please. TIA

Lala's I've never found one online.  Capslock may be your best resource.  There may be something he can scan and send to you?

Why do you think I am asking?? LOL  Check your email...cox.net please!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Buckeye on April 04, 2008, 04:35:13 PM
Few areas on this map.  Click on little pics to enlarge.

http://www.caribbean-on-line.com/islands/ar/arm.shtml

Best bet (with directory) is to buy this one:

http://www.caribmart.com/arubamapbybb.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Buckeye on April 04, 2008, 05:33:25 PM
Interesting post at RU:

K_Meine  PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:02 pm         

Accounts from someone who was actually there
So I run into a person I've known for some time today but I hadn't seen in a while. I look at his T-shirt and in big letters amongst a pictorial of an island chain is the word "ARUBA". Of course being interested in this case I said "it's too bad about that girl Natalee Holloway". He says he was on the island for 8 days. 4 before and 4 after she disappeared. I asked him what his experience was there and there were three comments that stuck in my head. First, she disappeared on Monday AM, but it wasn't made public via newspaper until Wednesday PM. Why? he purports it was a cover up of some sort. Secondly, the word on the street was that basically everyone thought it was Joran Van Der Sloot and that Natalee's body was dumped in the water at the California light house. He said there were sharks on that side of the island and that the cliffs and water was deep and treacherous in that area and it would be difficult to find anything there. Lastly, Paulus was stated to have said something in the way of "if the body isn't found, there can be no case"(this is not verbatim). Is that fatherly or legal advice?

You take it as you will, but to hear a first hand account versus media garbage is a bit more authentic to me. Joran isn't in hiding for no reason you know. Remember what Mr. T said to Rocky? He was right.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 04, 2008, 06:06:20 PM
Good morning.

I think the suit is all about DISCOVERY.......

Not about monetary reward or damages.  Not about making a criminal case. 

It's about obtaining testimony under oath  that will leave no doubt as to who is responsible for the disappearance of Natalee.

IIRC, didn't JVDS say somewhere that he wanted a trial?  Something to help put all this behind him?

Is Beth the only plaintiff in this case? 

Has the case been filed? 

I'm wondering who the defendants are, as compared to who is on the witness list.

Would business interests in Aruba be likely to file a similar case against the defendants for damage to the island's tourist reputation?

Are the judges that hear civil cases in Holland a separate legal specialty?  Or, would someone who hears criminal cases possibly be assigned?  Do judges hear a mix of civil and criminal cases?

Could testimony under oath be used in a criminal case?  If one witness is no witness in a criminal case, what if you find another witness while someone is under oath?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 04, 2008, 06:30:21 PM
I wonder where the finger will be pointing when JVDS is under oath?  The Kalpoes?  I'd like to know what questions they are planning to ask.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Buckeye on April 04, 2008, 07:15:53 PM
Rob

You're being called, on the Dutch thread.  I don't think johann knows where this thread is.  :smt102


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 04, 2008, 08:17:54 PM
Good morning.

I think the suit is all about DISCOVERY.......

Not about monetary reward or damages.  Not about making a criminal case. 

It's about obtaining testimony under oath  that will leave no doubt as to who is responsible for the disappearance of Natalee.

IIRC, didn't JVDS say somewhere that he wanted a trial?  Something to help put all this behind him?

Is Beth the only plaintiff in this case? 

Has the case been filed? 

I'm wondering who the defendants are, as compared to who is on the witness list.

Would business interests in Aruba be likely to file a similar case against the defendants for damage to the island's tourist reputation?

Are the judges that hear civil cases in Holland a separate legal specialty?  Or, would someone who hears criminal cases possibly be assigned?  Do judges hear a mix of civil and criminal cases?

Could testimony under oath be used in a criminal case?  If one witness is no witness in a criminal case, what if you find another witness while someone is under oath?

The manipulation of Dutch Law in the Natalee Holloway has given the impression to the world that the Aruban Justice System has nothing to do with justice for the victim.

Janet 

+++++++++++++

Holloway Case Suspect Regrets No Trial
AMSTERDAM, Netherlands Dec 23, 2007 (AP)


A former suspect in the disappearance in Aruba of American teenager Natalee Holloway told a Dutch newspaper he regretted that he was not formally prosecuted for any crime.

Joran van der Sloot, 20, was re-arrested in Aruba in November for a new interrogation about Holloway's disappearance in 2005. But public prosecutors on the island closed their investigation Dec. 18, saying they believed Holloway was dead but they did not have enough evidence to prosecute van der Sloot or two other former suspects.

"I would have liked to have seen a trial so that everything could be out in the open,"  van der Sloot told newspaper DAG in his first public remarks since being released on Dec. 7. The newspaper published excerpts from the interview Sunday. DAG spokesman Bob Witman said the interview was conducted via e-mail with van der Sloot in Aruba, where he is currently staying.

All three suspects denied any involvement in Holloway's disappearance.

Van der Sloot, who is Dutch, denied there was any new evidence to prompt his arrest again last month, as prosecutors had asserted.

"There was no new evidence at all," he told the paper. "Dutch detectives tried to get me to talk for 15 days. They told me that Natalee was dead."

Prosecutors say their new evidence was a statement by one of the suspects during a tapped Internet chat in which he said Holloway was dead. But defense lawyers denied that.

Van der Sloot said he believed his latest arrest was intended to please American media.

"I've been declared guilty without any factual evidence and I'm left to prove my innocence," he told the paper.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/wireStory?id=4045542


Holloway Case Conviction No Slam Dunk
Under Aruban Law, Suspect's Own Words Can't Be Used Against Him
By JEFFREY KOFMAN
Feb. 4, 2008


It will be difficult under Aruban law for prosecutors to build a case against Joran Van der Sloot in the Natalee Holloway case, according to Nico Jrg, Aruba's advocate general, and acting attorney general.

<snipped>

Jrg emphasized that there are fundamental differences between the laws of the United States and laws in Aruba. For example, there is no trial by jury in this tiny island nation of just 103,000 citizens. All trials are by judge only. A suspect's own words can't be used to implicate him or her, and there is no such thing as perjury for a suspect in Aruba.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/Story?id=4240906&page=1


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 04, 2008, 08:37:42 PM
Is it possible that the reopening of the Natalee Holloway case and ... the continuing of the investigation as well as ... Joran once again being declaring a prime suspect ... that charges will be brought by the proscutors and ... Joran will go to trial.

The civil suit brought again the VDS' by Beth will give Aruba a message ... this mother is not going to be appeased until there is justice for her precious daughter.

Janet

++++++++++


No custody for Van der Sloot
02/15/2008


The OM has no statutory remedies left against the decision. The investigation in the Holloway-case will continue with 25 detectives working on it and Van der Sloot remains the suspect.

The OM will decide on further prosecution of Van der Sloot after they are done with the investigation.

http://www.amigoe.com/english/


February 15, 2008
Court of Appeal upholds lower judges decision not to detain J.v.d.S.
J.v.d.S remains prime suspect
Judicial investigation continues


On the pre-trial detention issue the Code of criminal procedure does not provide for further appeals. The effect of the Court decision is that J.v.d.S. cannot be (re)arrested. The investigation of the Natalee Holloway case continues. J.v.d.S. is again the prime suspect.  

At the end of the investigation the Office of the Public Prosecution will decide whether to charge or not.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2605.msg350819#msg350819


Holloway Case Conviction No Slam Dunk
Under Aruban Law, Suspect's Own Words Can't Be Used Against Him
By JEFFREY KOFMAN
Feb. 4, 2008


It will be difficult under Aruban law for prosecutors to build a case against Joran Van der Sloot in the Natalee Holloway case, according to Nico Jrg, Aruba's advocate general, and acting attorney general.

In an interview with ABC News, Jrg outlined several possible options for prosecuting the young Dutch/Aruban man, a suspect in the disappearance of the Alabama teen, who went to the island on holiday more than two years ago.

Jrg emphasized that there are fundamental differences between the laws of the United States and laws in Aruba. For example, there is no trial by jury in this tiny island nation of just 103,000 citizens. All trials are by judge only. A suspect's own words can't be used to implicate him or her, and there is no such thing as perjury for a suspect in Aruba.

The acting attorney general said prosecutors will look at the following possible charges:

AIDING AND ABETTING FIRST DEGREE MURDER Possible sentence: Life in prison. This would require prosecutors to prove "conditional intent" on the part of Van der Sloot. In the undercover videotape obtained by a Dutch journalist, Van der Sloot says he can't say for sure that Holloway was actually dead when he called a friend to help him dispose of her body, after she passed out on the beach and began shaking uncontrollably. Jrg told ABC News that to prove this charge, prosecutors would need medical experts to talk about the effects of alcohol poisoning on a body.

INJURY TO HEALTH CAUSING DEATH Possible sentence: 6 to 9 years. Prosecutors would want to prove that Van der Sloot knowingly gave Holloway too much alcohol. In previous statements, he has admitted giving her a drink of Bacardi 151, which is 75 percent alcohol.

ACCIDENTAL DEATH Possible sentence: 9 months. Prosecutors would have to demonstrate that Van der Sloot did not take reasonable precautions when he noticed Holloway was unconscious.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/Story?id=4240906&page=1


ILLEGAL DISPOSAL OF A CORPSE Possible sentence: 6 months. On the undercover tape, Van der Sloot says he called his friend, and asked him to bring his boat to the beach so that Holloway's body could be thrown deep in the ocean.

MISDEMEANOR CHARGE FOR NOT GIVING HELP TO SOMEONE IN NEED Possible sentence: 6 months.  

All of these charges require that prosecutors have independent evidence placing Van der Sloot with Holloway at the time of her death.  

Jrg notes that, even if Van der Sloot is convicted of one of the lesser crimes listed above, the months he has already spent in prison would be deducted from any future conviction.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/Story?id=4240906&page=2



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 04, 2008, 08:51:31 PM
Good morning.

I think the suit is all about DISCOVERY.......

Not about monetary reward or damages.  Not about making a criminal case. 

It's about obtaining testimony under oath  that will leave no doubt as to who is responsible for the disappearance of Natalee.



Peaches ... I do not believe that the "powers that be" in the Aruban coverup are going to allow Beth's civil suit to go forward.  There has been an Aruban agenda from the getgo to assure that the truth ...  involving those who participating in the event of the morning of May 30, 2005 ... are never revealed.

I tend to believe that this lawsuit is another avenue that Beth is travelling to send a message to Aruba that she is not going to fade away from the Aruban scene ... a message to Aruba that she will not be appeased until there is justice for Natalee.

Peaches ... if I am wrong in my speculation ... it will truly be a happy day for me.  I pray every day that a miracle will evolve and ... justice will be served for the 18 year old American citizen who never returned from a mini vacation in Aruba.

Janet

+++++++++++


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/15/ng.01.html

Jug Twitty
NANCY GRACE
February 15, 2008

HUGHES: Well, Jug, let me ask you this, do you think that Joran van der Sloot will ever be arrested and brought to trial in Natalee`s case?

TWITTY: I`d like to hope that he would, but I doubt it. You know, I pray every night that something will happen, somebody will say something. But to be honest, Holly, there`s so many people involved in this, it was a huge cover-up from the beginning. And there are so many people protecting him that I don`t know if they`d ever bring him to trial.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 04, 2008, 08:56:47 PM
While I am through talking to myself.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

A board game with my grandson and grandaughter (4/6) is where it is at.  Maybe Chutes and Ladders or ... maybe Guess Who.  I went for lunch with their mother and ... ended up bring these two Munchkins home for a special weekend for Mama and Papa.

Hi San ... you have been very quiet lately ... I miss your posts.  I hope all is well.

Later ... Janet



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: dennisintn on April 04, 2008, 09:09:55 PM
Good morning.

I think the suit is all about DISCOVERY.......

Not about monetary reward or damages.  Not about making a criminal case. 

It's about obtaining testimony under oath  that will leave no doubt as to who is responsible for the disappearance of Natalee.



Peaches ... I do not believe that the "powers that be" in the Aruban coverup are going to allow Beth's civil suit to go forward.  There has been an Aruban agenda from the getgo to assure that the truth ...  involving those who participating in the event of the morning of May 30, 2005 ... are never revealed.

I tend to believe that this lawsuit is another avenue that Beth is travelling to send a message to Aruba that she is not going to fade away from the Aruban scene ... a message to Aruba that she will not be appeased until there is justice for Natalee.

Peaches ... if I am wrong in my speculation ... it will truly be a happy day for me.  I pray every day that a miracle will evolve and ... justice will be served for the 18 year old American citizen who never returned from a mini vacation in Aruba.

Janet

+++++++++++


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/15/ng.01.html

Jug Twitty
NANCY GRACE
February 15, 2008

HUGHES: Well, Jug, let me ask you this, do you think that Joran van der Sloot will ever be arrested and brought to trial in Natalee`s case?

TWITTY: I`d like to hope that he would, but I doubt it. You know, I pray every night that something will happen, somebody will say something. But to be honest, Holly, there`s so many people involved in this, it was a huge cover-up from the beginning. And there are so many people protecting him that I don`t know if they`d ever bring him to trial.

tm, i thought this suit was being filed in holland.  from what i've read in their papers, the dutch don't think very highly of their aruban counterparts.  with jvds living in holland, most likely they can keep the case there.  hopefully, anyway.  i agree that it would never come to trial on the happy island, or if it did, beth could never, ever win it there.
dennisintn


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: San on April 04, 2008, 09:27:51 PM
While I am through talking to myself.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

A board game with my grandson and grandaughter (4/6) is where it is at.  Maybe Chutes and Ladders or ... maybe Guess Who.  I went for lunch with their mother and ... ended up bring these two Munchkins home for a special weekend for Mama and Papa.

Hi San ... you have been very quiet lately ... I miss your posts.  I hope all is well.

Later ... Janet


Hi Janet, all is good with me.  I have been busy and I mostly read.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 04, 2008, 10:55:38 PM
Good morning.

I think the suit is all about DISCOVERY.......

Not about monetary reward or damages.  Not about making a criminal case. 

It's about obtaining testimony under oath  that will leave no doubt as to who is responsible for the disappearance of Natalee.



Peaches ... I do not believe that the "powers that be" in the Aruban coverup are going to allow Beth's civil suit to go forward.  There has been an Aruban agenda from the getgo to assure that the truth ...  involving those who participating in the event of the morning of May 30, 2005 ... are never revealed.

I tend to believe that this lawsuit is another avenue that Beth is travelling to send a message to Aruba that she is not going to fade away from the Aruban scene ... a message to Aruba that she will not be appeased until there is justice for Natalee.

Peaches ... if I am wrong in my speculation ... it will truly be a happy day for me.  I pray every day that a miracle will evolve and ... justice will be served for the 18 year old American citizen who never returned from a mini vacation in Aruba.

Janet

+++++++++++


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/15/ng.01.html

Jug Twitty
NANCY GRACE
February 15, 2008

HUGHES: Well, Jug, let me ask you this, do you think that Joran van der Sloot will ever be arrested and brought to trial in Natalee`s case?

TWITTY: I`d like to hope that he would, but I doubt it. You know, I pray every night that something will happen, somebody will say something. But to be honest, Holly, there`s so many people involved in this, it was a huge cover-up from the beginning. And there are so many people protecting him that I don`t know if they`d ever bring him to trial.

tm, i thought this suit was being filed in holland.  from what i've read in their papers, the dutch don't think very highly of their aruban counterparts.  with jvds living in holland, most likely they can keep the case there.  hopefully, anyway.  i agree that it would never come to trial on the happy island, or if it did, beth could never, ever win it there.
dennisintn



Beth Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
November 14, 2005


VAN SUSTEREN: They are saying that even the AG is controlled by The Hague, so they're keeping Karen Janssen on ...

TWITTY: Well Greta, somebody is lobbying for Joran in the Hague in order to protect him ... it has to be.


Joe Scarborough
'Scarborough Country'
June 30, 2005


SCARBOROUGH: Friends, let me tell you something. This is an incestuous investigation. Thats what Washington officials are saying. I have got to tell you, its so obvious. You look at this. You have the Dutch government. And I was toldanother source told me today, if you really want to know whats going on in Aruba, if you want to understand why we cant get to the bottom of anything, you know what? You cant search for answers in Aruba. You have got to follow it, follow that trail all the way over to the Netherlands, because thats where the real power of this investigation is.

And they are the ones that many in Washington, D.C., believe are covering up this investigation.  

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8430791/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 04, 2008, 11:27:44 PM
THE HAGUE AND THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY INVESTIGATION

Beth Twitty
At Large w/ Geraldo Rivera
August 12, 2005


GERALDO: On Tuesday, Sept. 6th, the Dutch teenager, Joran Van der Sloot, the prime suspect in the disappearanceof Natalee Holloway, arrived in the Netherlands followinghis release from prison a couple of days earlier in Aruba.Van der Sloot, who has acknowledged spending the eveningwith Natalee before her disappearance but has denied any wrong doing arrived in the Amsterdam airport with his dad, another potential suspect in the case. He /they ignored all questions from the reporters and quickly departed the airport.

Our next guest, our dear friend, believes that the government in Aruba took advantage of our intense, very necessary and appropriate focus on Hurricane Katrina to make this dramatic move and let Van der Sloot sleaze his way off the island of Aruba. Beth joins us tonight from Little Rock.  So, first of all hi, hows your spirits?

Beth: Hi Geraldo. Well its pretty tough hanging in there with all that has happened, and you are exactly right, Geraldo.  It was a PR dream for the Dutch government to take advantage of such a catastrophic event in the United States in order to release these suspects.

Geraldo: Were you down there kind of screaming dont forget us as they got to the airport and got on the plane?

BETH: Well, its just incredible that they chose to act under these circumstances. I think it just shows the world that . . . what all that we have been put through, . . . and when theres involvement with the Dutch government, as we have been in Aruba.

GERALDO: It shows the world, Beth, but never the less the prime suspect in the disappearance of your daughter is now free, although technically I guess he remains a suspect.  After the arrest of that other guy and the Kalpoe brothers on that rape tape of the 14 year old I thought they were going to be in for awhile, or at least they would be in, but they are out too, arent they?

BETH: Oh, yes, Geraldo. You know when I heard you state that Joran is still stating that he had no involvement with her disappearance but something that Jug and Dave, Natalees father and I have had knowledge of since early in July, so we have Jorans statements. We have had them translated for us, and we have at least five. You know, Geraldo, what has been so difficult for us is that we have had this knowledge that Joran has admitted to having sex with Natalee AT HIS HOME as she is coming in and out of consciousness. You know we have protected the integrity of the investigation because we felt that was the professional way to handle this but you know when we have been slapped in the face by the Dutch government and . . .

GERALDO: You say that Van der Sloot admits in his police statement that he is having sex with your daughter, whom I believe was a virgin before she went to Aruba, as she lapses in and out of consciousness?

BETH: Absolutely Geraldo.

GERALDO: Isnt there a law , as I recall, one of the things the Kalpoe brothers were suspected of in the porno tapes that they did with the 14 year old was having sex with someone with whom did not have the capacity to give consent. Its seems to me that if your daughter was phasing in and out of consciousness she can not legally consent to have sex.

BETH: Absolutely, Geraldo, thats why we were so shocked on Sept. 1st because even the Dutch interrogators that have knowledge of these statements, the lists of inconsistencies are there, the reasonable doubt is there. We were just truly shocked that the sudden release of these suspects. We just can not fathom how this has happened and how rape is not a crime within the Dutch government.

GERALDO: It is outrageous, Beth. I really didnt know about those statements. You say there are more. You should really share them with me and I will, not necessarily now, but I will blast them, believe me. I told you I would be there to the end with you and I will be. I think it is really retched, it really is.  So what are you going to do now?

BETH: Well, Geraldo, I think that we have had so many millions of people that have supported us in prayer and have sent us cards and emails. The main thing that we would like to ask right now is to please, please just consider not traveling to Aruba or within the Dutch Kingdom and territory until Natalee is returned to her country, because they can absolutely make this happen, Geraldo.

GERALDO: Make happen what? What do you want?  Do you want a boycott on Aruba?

BETH: I would please like for them to consider not to travel to Aruba until she is returned, and the Dutch Kingdom territories, Geraldo.  You know if we did not feel that they knew exactly where she was we would not be seeking this, but we have been such slapped in the face by the present government that is in place that its just hard for us not to begin to make this request now.

GERALDO: How is your boy faring, starting school, hes 16 right?

BETH: Well, actually Geraldo, he is 17 now. I am going to see him Tuesday. I just flew in from Aruba this morning. I am going to spend a week in Birmingham and I am looking forward to that. We are gong to be re-grouping. This is not over. We are going to continue, Geraldo.

GERALDO: Save your strength. You know we love you. Courage. Regards to everybody. Really, call me with that data because I will use it, I will whack them with it.

BETH: Ok, Thanks Geraldo.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/09/12/beth-holloway-twitty-finally-says-it-dont-travel-to-aruba/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 04, 2008, 11:34:05 PM
THE HAGUE AND THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE

Beth Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
November 9, 2005


VAN SUSTEREN: All right, the idea of the boycott and Governor Riley how did this come about?

TWITTY: You know, Greta, I was thinking about that. Aruba really has made us evolve to this position because, you know, what Aruba and The Hague have done to us is they've been dishonest from the beginning. If they would just have been forthcoming from the beginning to lead us to the proper authorities we would never be in this position right now.

VAN SUSTEREN: Can you identify one particular person, if we could sort of chisel away and find out who it is that we need to get to, to get information, so that we can sort of break this log jam who is that person?

TWITTY: Well, I think that's the $64 question and now we've got Aruba playing the blame game with The Hague. I mean I thought only the suspects were doing the blame game. It looks like Aruba and The Hague now are playing the blame game, Greta. It's hard to tell.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right and just so that the viewers, I understand what you're talking about, you got a letter in which it explained what the Arubans said to you that The Hague has been calling the shots, is that right, in the investigation?

TWITTY: Yes, they're saying, in the letter it states that the Aruban government has no authority to intervene in the investigation. Now then why have we been running around on the island submitting written and verbal requests for help from the governor, from the minister of justice, the prime minister? I mean the list is endless, Greta.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there, I mean like where is most of your frustration? Is it directed at a particular person? I mean I know that fundamentally that you want information about your daughter. Every parent wants that. But is there someone who you think is standing in the way more than another?

TWITTY: I don't think it's someone. I think it's something. I think it's the dishonesty that has been coming out of that island since May 31st and all we have wanted for them to be as honest with us and be forthcoming and tell us and lead us in the proper direction. That's all we've asked. That's all we've asked of them.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175101,00.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: crazymom on April 04, 2008, 11:36:42 PM
Hey Monkeys.  I lurk often but haven't signed into the thread for a while. 

Gotta say......GET 'EM BETH!!!!!

Also, thanks for the prayers last night during the tornado that hit Little Rock last night.  We were only about 1/2 mile away from where the tornado hit!!!  We didn't receive any damage.  It was quite frightening for me and my children.  Hubby won't admit he was a tad scared himself. LOL.

A strange thing happened while we were tracking the storms on TV.  I looked out over my back deck and noticed the clouds were really racing overhead but not a tree was moving.  That is when they told my area to take immediate cover.  All my friends and family are safe. 

P.S.  I think I need to change clothes....I wonder if there is a new avi for me in the lounge?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 04, 2008, 11:50:24 PM
THE HAGUE AND THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE

Dave Holloway
Scarborough Country
November 7, 2005


Joe: Another strange twist in the Holloway story tonight. Aruba authorities have sent a letter to Alabama Governor Bob Riley that may make a new investigation even harder to move forward with.

The letter says in part:

The chief prosecutor leading the investigation and the General Prosecutor are appointed by the Kingdom Government in the Hague. Because of separation of powers, the government of Aruba has no authority to intervene in the investigation.

Dept. of Foreign Affairs, Nov. 4

Source: Dept of Foreign Affairs, Aruba


Joining us is Dave Holloway.

Joe: After all these months you and your family have been suffering, you find out that the Aruba authorities claim they have absolutely no say in this investigation?  Where do you go from here?

Dave: Well, thats really unbelievable that they take the wash their hands approach.  Were going to proceed on with The Hague, I guess. Also, our six page letter we were asked to provide to the Attorney General and we provided a carbon copy to the PM and Condoleezza Rice. We have not heard a response to that letter yet.

Joe: Dave, Ive been asking the question for months on people down on the ground down in Aruba who has the power to run this investigation? Who has the power to hire? Who has the power to fire? Who has the power to subpoena? Nobody seems to know. This really does look like a banana republic down there. Anytime anyone gets cornered down there, they just point the finger across the Atlantic.

Dave: Well, that seems to be the case. Weve been running around in circles for five months now. When we reduce it down to writing, they put it back in writing and its obvious they are pointing the finger somewhere else now.

Joe: So you are I guess at the end of the line as far as dealing with the Aruba authorities? Now you just have to take up with the Dutch government?

Dave: Thats what it appears to be. With the Dutch government and with the Attorney General. Mind you, the minister of justice had mentioned about a month ago that he felt like this would just leave it alone and it will go away. So we know what his approach is now.

Joe: The new chief investigator, someone that you all looked forward to having on but now Dompig seems actually to be as big an obstacle as anything. Hes actually come out and attacked you all, hasnt he?

Dave: Well, hes attacked Beth in some sense by putting out on the island that she might be involved somehow in Natalees disappearance and making money off of it.  So it looks to me that hes trying to incite anti Beth sentiment across the country of Aruba.

Joe: You know Dave were so frustrated, I know you all just have to be beyond yourselves right now. The question a lot of people are asking is what can we do?  Is this the time we go to Governor Riley and other people and talk about a possible boycott of Aruba? Is it that time yet or are you all going to play this out a little longer?

Dave: Well, the people of Aruba have elected their officials and their officials have spoken. We have elected officials and well let our elected officials speak.

Joe: Will you make any requests of the elected officials to possibly move forward with a boycott of Aruba?

Dave: Well, again Joe, we elect our officials and they decide what is necessary for the people. Whatever the governor decides, thats what well do.

Joe: Okay thank you so much Dave Holloway. As always, know that our thoughts and prayers will be with you and your entire family. Friends it sounds like a show down is coming. Can you believe after 5 months of this family going through this private hell this personal hell and after all of this time it just keeps getting pushed around.

They are getting no answers. They get to the point where there is a new investigator they believe they are going to get answers on how their daughter disappeared and most likely died. Right as they push them right to the wall, the Aruba authorities say wait a second, weve got no authority. I tell you what; Im not waiting for the government. Were going to look into a boycott sometime soon.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/11/07/dave-holloway-responds-to-letter-to-governor-riley-regarding-the-natalee-holloway-investigation/



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 05, 2008, 12:04:22 AM
THE HAGUE AND THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE

Aruba requesting Internal Affairs Minister Johan Remkes assistance in investigating the Natalee Holloway case is another conflict of interest.

On January 1, 2003 ... Johan Remkes endorsed the the appointment of Paulus van der Sloot to "deputy member of the common Court of Justice of the Netherlands antilles and Aruba".

I will go out on a limb and ... speculate that all the judges who gave favorable rulings for the suspects in the Natalee Holloway case were appointed by some "duputy member of the common Court of the Justice of the Netherlands antilles and Aruba".

Obviously ... the Dutch investigation was all a "dog and pony show".  Nothing the implied justice for Natalee Holloway ever evolved.  The lying declarations in the case file were never challenged.

Janet

++++++++++++++

ASSOCIATED PRESS

August 26, 2006
Aruba wants Dutch police to take over Natalee case


ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) Aruban authorities want Dutch police to take over the investigation of the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway, who vanished on the Caribbean island more than one year ago, a local newspaper reported Friday.  Aruba's Justice Minister Rudy Croes sent a letter last week to Netherlands' Internal Affairs Minister Johan Remkes and to another Dutch official asking the Dutch police to handle the case, saying little progress had been made, the Solo di Pueblo newspaper reported.

If Dutch police take over the investigation, they will have access to all case files and their own office, according to the newspaper, which didn't cite its source. Remkes will visit the Dutch Caribbean islands, including Aruba, next week, authorities said in the Netherlands.

Telephone calls placed to Croes' office for comment Friday went unanswered.

Holloway vanished on May 30, 2005, the last night of a high school graduation trip to Aruba. Then 18, the native of Mountain Brook was last seen leaving a bar with three young men.

Authorities have arrested eight people in connection with her disappearance and then released them for lack of evidence.

Copyright 2005 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,210525,00.html
 
http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/news/060826/aruba.shtml


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 05, 2008, 12:10:01 AM
Crazymom ... I am thankful that dispite all the devastion to property and ... personal lives ... brought on by the tornado ... there were no fatalities.

I have heard the expression "The lull before the storm."  Maybe that is what you were experiencing ... in the eerie stillness as the clouds  were racing overhead.

Good Night Monkeys.

Janet
9:10



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: GBMW on April 05, 2008, 04:01:46 AM
Goodmorning!

Hereby the translation of a new blog on Patricks site....I had to do it quickly so there might be a few mistakes in it but it it's always a bit better than the google translation ;-)



The summonses of Bram Moszkowicz mother Holloway Case

I wrote him a few days ago whether he had any news for my blog, so I can tell my thousands of readers. I didn't hear anything from him, but now I understand that Mr. Bram must have been busy with the summonses. The process that Beth wants to start in civil court is now really going to begin.

Personally, I haven't recieved the subpoena yet, but I'm looking forward to it. Of course I am more than happy to help Beth. She has suffered so much.

It is still not clear what is going to happen with Joran concerning a criminal case. But this process to  demand shockdamage could already give some satisfaction. In the Netherlands the amounts are much smaller than in the United States. Eventually in the case of O.J. Simpson about $ 8.5 million was awarded. In the Netherlands those kind of amounts are unusual. It would quite something if a Dutch court would award Beth 100,000 is she wins. Perhaps in this case, for the first time, there will be a higher amount. The life of Natalees' parents have been disrupted for years already.

Under Dutch law it's not that simple with shockdamages, mainly when it concerns victims of accidents. Our highest court awarded in 2002 the right to damages for the first time. A mother got 13,000 when she got a psychological injury after seeing her dead  daughter at the crime scene.

The case of Joran is obviously something different. But this gives you one example of how low the damages always turn out. Our right is actually only the material damage compensation, such as cost of living when the person that makes the money in a household died. The death of a child, no matter how hard that may sound, is worth little in Dutch law. Usually it is not more than the funeral expenses plus a little extra. It gives us a bit of an idea. The commercialisation of grief, dispicable legal practices in a claimculture. So if the Dutch government rarely accepts schockdamages that will also have an effect in these kind of cases.

The lawyers of  Beth will probably go for the so-called onrechtmatige daad (unlawful act??? sorry don't know the translation!). This is an article in our Civil Code. It is positive for Beth that such a process means they have to testify under oath & anything can be asked and that they have no right to silence, like a criminal. Joran has frequently made use of that right to remain silent and kept his mouth shut. That's not an option anymore. His parents will be heard under oath as well. That could have a major impact. Suppose, for example, that they know a lot more about the case or that Joran is helped by his father. If his father would lie during this process and that were to come out during a possible criminal case then he has committed perjury. On perjury there is an imprisonment of six years and / or a fine of 18,500. This applies also for all the other family members who would consult perjury, including Joran course.

It is difficult to prove an unlawful act for the judge. There is a lot to it. For example, the act has to be attributed to Joran or his relatives. It must be proven that the act is due to the debt or to a cause that was created by the acts or omissions of Joran and / or his parents. It was very stupid of Joran to say on Pauw & Witteman that he was only telling me a story. Something you obviously don't do when the feelings / hurt of parents are at stake.

The Kalpoe brothers were also summoned. Although in all my conversations with Joran it seemed like they have nothing to do with the disappearance of Natalee, Beth's lawyer of course wants to know why they gave Joran a false alibi.

Joran has put himself under treatment in a psychiatric institution. He is getting therapy for people who are stuck in everyday life and suffer from behavioural and psychiatric problems. According to some people he might have done this to avoid this process. As long as Joran is treated, his lawyer would be able to say that he is not in a position to answer. Meanwhile, of course, the case can start with the questioning of other witnesses. Normally these kinds of lawsuits take longer than a year.

I will keep you well informed about this case here. Personally, I will be heard as a witness in this process on a completely voluntarily basis. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Vicki on April 05, 2008, 05:07:00 AM
Wow..Thank you so much for translating....thank God for Peter....Let Justice finally happen...Beth and Dave are in my prayers...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 05, 2008, 06:06:04 AM
Good morning.

I think the suit is all about DISCOVERY.......

Not about monetary reward or damages.  Not about making a criminal case. 

It's about obtaining testimony under oath  that will leave no doubt as to who is responsible for the disappearance of Natalee.



Peaches ... I do not believe that the "powers that be" in the Aruban coverup are going to allow Beth's civil suit to go forward.  There has been an Aruban agenda from the getgo to assure that the truth ...  involving those who participating in the event of the morning of May 30, 2005 ... are never revealed.

I tend to believe that this lawsuit is another avenue that Beth is travelling to send a message to Aruba that she is not going to fade away from the Aruban scene ... a message to Aruba that she will not be appeased until there is justice for Natalee.

Peaches ... if I am wrong in my speculation ... it will truly be a happy day for me.  I pray every day that a miracle will evolve and ... justice will be served for the 18 year old American citizen who never returned from a mini vacation in Aruba.

Janet

+++++++++++
(snipped)

Your comments pose an interesting question.  I was thinking that perhaps some on Aruba would want to join or start a similar suit.  I still think of all the evidence (recordings, interviews, evidence, etc.) that remains in the darkness, not known to the public.  What kind of nuggets are in there?  What kind of dark ugly secrets?

I wonder what kind of monkey wrench Aruba can throw into Beth's civil suit in Holland?  Maybe even some in the Hague?

I often thought the VDS family is related to the Queen or some high ranking government officials.  I wonder if the wheels are turning as I type this?

I can't imagine the worst thing that could happen if the suspects and witness testified under oath.  Lock themselves into a single version of events.  jmho

I wonder when the legal maneurvering begins?  The public and media eye are on the proceedings in Holland, even if they've been diverted by a mini-movie. 

Will nepotism, cronyism, conflict of interest, and family relations play a part in the civil case?  Will Koen G. and his family be summoned?  I think his father would be an interesting person to question.  Would it be harder to call this family to testify?  IIRC, they were reported to have moved to the U.S. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 05, 2008, 06:13:32 AM
BFN has a thread "John Silvetti, the Persistence and the Search for Natalee".

John does address questions, and for those that do not read there, here are some snips -

Quote from: jdsurveyor1
I would like to give everyone at BFN an update on where we stand.  The Persistence completed surveying the initial and extended grids.  Basically, this means that the sonar survey was completed.  Over 275 targets of interest were picked up and analyzed by the sonar interpreters.  Only 25% of the targets were investigated by the ROV.  At that point, we had run out of money and weather.  Louis Schaefer committed a very generous amount of money towards the survey and the rest of us absorbed what we could.  However, that was all based on the initial survey grid.  Once the grid tripled, obviously so did our committments.  The weather had continually increased until we were constantly facing 20 ft. seas. The Persistence can handle 20 foot seas, however, it is very dangerous for the crew and impossible to collect data.  It was taking us 3 days to complete what took us only 1 day the month before.  It was time to call it off.  This was a very difficult thing to do as we had all prepared ourselves to either find Natalee or not.  None of us were prepared to leave not knowing one way or the other.  I believe once the reality set in that we were going to leave without knowing, that was the lowest point in morale of the entire trip.  It took a few days for everyone to shake it off and complete what we could.

Quote from: Jamie
Dear John. No, this isn't a goodbye note. lol I would personally like to thank you, Mr. Schaefer, Kyle and ALL of you, for everything you have done and are continuing to do, for Natalee. Thank you for letting us be a part of your search. You all have made us feel closer to Natalee and her family, through you on your search. I just pray that the funds you need to continue your search, will come through.

Thank you also for giving of your time and energy. You are all heroes to us. God Bless you all.

Quote from: jdsurveyor1
Thank you Jamie for your kind words.  You must realize that the support that everyone posted daily kept us upbeat and working.  You all were truly there with us.  We are currently looking for an ROV vessel we can work with to return to complete the target investigations later in the year.  I just returned last night from New England where I looked at a vessel that was being considered to do this with.

The surveyors from the Persistence were also working with the Maritime Police and Prosecutor's Office utilizing bottom scanning sonar in ponds and murky bodies of water.  This is ongoing, however, the strike on the island has brought this to a halt until the strike is settled.  Rumors claim this may happen on Monday.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 05, 2008, 06:19:47 AM
More from John ~

Quote from: Debbie
John, what can we do to insure that the search is completed?

Also, when the cage was found that was shown on Dateline (pictures also hit the internet) what thoughts, emotions, etc... went through your mind?  Can you elaborate on that for us?  Thanks!

Quote from: jdsurveyor1
The important thing is to raise funds.  It will require corporate support as well as private donations.  Dave and Beth have been doing a great job getting the word out and while I was on the island, Dave put me in contact with the head of the Hotel Association who is working on raising a sizeable amount.  So many on the island are supporting our efforts as well as people from all over the world.

The media really blew the cage out of proportion.  Although the cage initially provided some moments of "what is in there", I warned all on board that none of this information was to leave the boat.  It was very suspect that a cage of this size was found where it was on the seafloor relative to the coast.  My feelings were this was highly unusual and probably had something to do with something, but not what we were after.  It was decided that the cage would be investigated further by divers, however, it was designated as only a target of interest.  The crew moved onto other targets.  Unfortunately, inexperience and frustration led to premature statements, including that we had found her.  I don't think anyone was more upset than I that this information came off the boat and caused the Holloway family more grief!

Quote from: LegallyLex
John, a lot of BFN posters have asked me how much money would be needed to complete the search.  Can you provide an estimate on what amount would be needed?


Quote from: jdsurveyor1
It is very difficult to say, since Louis has not selected a ROV vessel and we do not know how much of a humanitarian discount we can count on by the vessel and ROV owners, but my guess is that we will be looking at around 1 million dollars.

Quote from: jdsurveyor1
]Thank you Pearl.  Your posting were read many times on the Persistence and you became part of the crew!  Your words and the words of so many inspired us to keep enduring, no matter what mother nature threw at us.  We reflected on this on the way home.  The crew worked constantly in weather conditions that were double the usual shut down weather in the Gulf of Mexico.

The relationship between the people of Aruba and the crew of the Persistence was wonderful.  Initially, there was an air of guarded reservation, on both sides, however, once they understood why we were there, not to make headlines or money, but to help the Holloway family and intrinsically the island of Aruba, they opend their arms and their homes to us.  The crew found the people of Aruba to be the "salt of the earth" hard working and family oriented people.  Many had taken time off work to join the search parties and many held prayer vigils in their churches.  We received support from the Police, the Coast Guard, the Port Authority and vitually anyone we needed help from.  One example, we needed a shallow water vessel to investigate areas we were afraid to bring the Persistence into due to water depths and unknown wrecks......a 28 foot vessel, PREDATOR, was provided to us for 4 days at no charge.  The owner would not allow us to pay for the fuel or any of the expenses.  Their support made our work progress much faster.  I am very happy to say that it would take a long time for me to list the names of everyone on the island that supported our efforts.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 05, 2008, 06:23:47 AM
Quote from: PearlInUSA
... I just read a article about water samples and sites recently done in Aruba.  One was at Hooiberg.  This made me wonder about any chance of something being done there as there was a reported cell phone call from Joran's phone made in very early morning hours.   Do you know if these individual places were actually searched with any scanning sonar?

Quote from: jdsurveyor1
I can not comment on the areas we have been working in as the OM is currently evaluating this information.  I can tell you that I did not try to tie information previously reported to every search area, only because one could spend a lifetime chasing every story and every piece of information.  Reports, previous clues, information from the Police, OM and others led us to the sites we looked at.  I can tell you I spoke to hundreds of people including authorities, x-authorities, locals, psychics (there is a story) and others.

A question about how secure the sites are -
Quote from: jdsurveyor1
Jamie,
I feel the sites are as safe as they can be.  All survey data that was collected, other than what was shared with the authorities, is in our possesion.  No data has yet to be released, especially target data......locations.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Spock on April 05, 2008, 06:49:54 AM
Remember, no one will be questioned under oath until a Dutch Judge decides:

The suit has merit in that Beth's claim for "suffering" can be remedied under Dutch law
The suit has merit in that the Dutch Court is the "convenient venue"
The suit has merit in that it was filed in a timely manner

First the Motions to dismiss will be heard. This can take months. Then a witness list will have to be submitted to the Judge for approval. The Judge will decide who can and who can not be a witness. This will also take some time. After witnesses are decided, depositions are generally taken in a lawyers office, not a courtroom. Finally, after all the depositions are taken (Beth will also be deposed), Beth can choose to proceed to a judicial hearing.

It will all be up to a Dutch Judge as to whether the suit is heard or dismissed.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 05, 2008, 07:35:52 AM
Remember, no one will be questioned under oath until a Dutch Judge decides:

The suit has merit in that Beth's claim for "suffering" can be remedied under Dutch law
The suit has merit in that the Dutch Court is the "convenient venue"
The suit has merit in that it was filed in a timely manner

First the Motions to dismiss will be heard. This can take months. Then a witness list will have to be submitted to the Judge for approval. The Judge will decide who can and who can not be a witness. This will also take some time. After witnesses are decided, depositions are generally taken in a lawyers office, not a courtroom. Finally, after all the depositions are taken (Beth will also be deposed), Beth can choose to proceed to a judicial hearing.

It will all be up to a Dutch Judge as to whether the suit is heard or dismissed.

It sounds to me as if this is a test of Dutch justice and the judicial system for many. 

A long time ago, there was some discussion about why the Kalpoes did not have the same problems with their story as JVDS.  One poster suggested that the Kalpoes only have one silver bullet, and they knew that 'now' (back then) was not the time to use it.

If the Kalpoes are deposed/chosen as witnesses, perhaps they will choose to use their silver bullet.

I wonder what, if anything, they would say differently. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 05, 2008, 08:20:22 AM
accidentally posted this in the Shango/Simian thread

Good Morning,

According to 24 ORA, three people were killed last night. These people seem to be family members. I note one person is named *Edvard* no last name listed yet.  Diario is asleep at the switch and has not covered this tragic event.

http://www.24ora.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/

I'm not totally sure how this happened, but I do see the word *kerosene* listed. Maybe it is an accident.

It must be pretty serious as Rudy Croes was on the scene.
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/RudyCroes4-4-20081.jpg)

I also note that Edwin "Papito" Comenencia made the official polis statement. No sign of the small white van, but there were multiple hearses at the scene.

One comment (52 total currently) in English -
 P.K  said: _
     What the hell is happening to Aruba ....Jesus Christ...the next thing u know the island is becoming slowly but surely a hell. Its time they start putting these son of a * to life in prison and have a more strict approach to all that has been happening.
I mean let me guess the person who did this must be a freaking Colombian....only them people come up with such feracious ideas.
My sincere condolences goes out to the families of these poor victims.

++++++

*hard to imagine this is an accident with a comment like the one above* and I do not see a suspect named as of yet.

just to add, the above picture also includes Peter DeWitt


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 05, 2008, 08:48:52 AM
I went to 24ora and there was nothing on the front page.  None of the links worked.   ::MonkeyShocked::

Maybe it's just me?

Or, this is serisous. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 05, 2008, 08:51:35 AM
Reading a little more of the story I mentioned above. It seems that a mother, father and child were killed and this may have happened by another child or related family member.

Family name appears to be Lampe.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 05, 2008, 08:55:20 AM
Good Morning Whiskey Girl...

Try this link.
http://www.24ora.com/

I have to use *alternative* methods to get on the site to see the pictures because they have my IP blocked for boosting pictures.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 05, 2008, 09:06:55 AM
Good Morning Whiskey Girl...

Try this link.
http://www.24ora.com/

I have to use *alternative* methods to get on the site to see the pictures because they have my IP blocked for boosting pictures.

thanks, I tried that simple link but it is also blank for me too.

I saw something earlier.  Maybe they are making some changes. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Blonde on April 05, 2008, 09:13:38 AM
at previous to instant owing to enter the informe cu one cas will is at candela at macuarima y cu have person in the cas. at the momentonan here we can confirma cu this not was the caso. in the cas here at macuarima one person will have to owing to using carbon y kerosine for burn 3 person. at the momentonan here 10.15 miebronan of funeraria owing to arrive at the sitio debi cu the personanan do not give sign of life. also is circulando cu the person will have to owing to asesina the personanan previous to y after using charcoal on they. come across ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Buckeye on April 05, 2008, 09:54:21 AM
GBMW

Thanks for the translation.  I'm sure it is time consuming translating and typing it all out.

I like Patrick.  Just not so sure of his background to explain the Dutch law...LOL...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 05, 2008, 10:37:33 AM
Goodmorning!

Hereby the translation of a new blog on Patricks site....I had to do it quickly so there might be a few mistakes in it but it it's always a bit better than the google translation ;-)



The summonses of Bram Moszkowicz mother Holloway Case

I wrote him a few days ago whether he had any news for my blog, so I can tell my thousands of readers. I didn't hear anything from him, but now I understand that Mr. Bram must have been busy with the summonses. The process that Beth wants to start in civil court is now really going to begin.

Personally, I haven't recieved the subpoena yet, but I'm looking forward to it. Of course I am more than happy to help Beth. She has suffered so much.

It is still not clear what is going to happen with Joran concerning a criminal case. But this process to  demand shockdamage could already give some satisfaction. In the Netherlands the amounts are much smaller than in the United States. Eventually in the case of O.J. Simpson about $ 8.5 million was awarded. In the Netherlands those kind of amounts are unusual. It would quite something if a Dutch court would award Beth 100,000 is she wins. Perhaps in this case, for the first time, there will be a higher amount. The life of Natalees' parents have been disrupted for years already.

Under Dutch law it's not that simple with shockdamages, mainly when it concerns victims of accidents. Our highest court awarded in 2002 the right to damages for the first time. A mother got 13,000 when she got a psychological injury after seeing her dead  daughter at the crime scene.

The case of Joran is obviously something different. But this gives you one example of how low the damages always turn out. Our right is actually only the material damage compensation, such as cost of living when the person that makes the money in a household died. The death of a child, no matter how hard that may sound, is worth little in Dutch law. Usually it is not more than the funeral expenses plus a little extra. It gives us a bit of an idea. The commercialisation of grief, dispicable legal practices in a claimculture. So if the Dutch government rarely accepts schockdamages that will also have an effect in these kind of cases.

The lawyers of  Beth will probably go for the so-called onrechtmatige daad (unlawful act??? sorry don't know the translation!). This is an article in our Civil Code. It is positive for Beth that such a process means they have to testify under oath & anything can be asked and that they have no right to silence, like a criminal. Joran has frequently made use of that right to remain silent and kept his mouth shut. That's not an option anymore. His parents will be heard under oath as well. That could have a major impact. Suppose, for example, that they know a lot more about the case or that Joran is helped by his father. If his father would lie during this process and that were to come out during a possible criminal case then he has committed perjury. On perjury there is an imprisonment of six years and / or a fine of 18,500. This applies also for all the other family members who would consult perjury, including Joran course.

It is difficult to prove an unlawful act for the judge. There is a lot to it. For example, the act has to be attributed to Joran or his relatives. It must be proven that the act is due to the debt or to a cause that was created by the acts or omissions of Joran and / or his parents. It was very stupid of Joran to say on Pauw & Witteman that he was only telling me a story. Something you obviously don't do when the feelings / hurt of parents are at stake.

The Kalpoe brothers were also summoned. Although in all my conversations with Joran it seemed like they have nothing to do with the disappearance of Natalee, Beth's lawyer of course wants to know why they gave Joran a false alibi.

Joran has put himself under treatment in a psychiatric institution. He is getting therapy for people who are stuck in everyday life and suffer from behavioural and psychiatric problems. According to some people he might have done this to avoid this process. As long as Joran is treated, his lawyer would be able to say that he is not in a position to answer. Meanwhile, of course, the case can start with the questioning of other witnesses. Normally these kinds of lawsuits take longer than a year.

I will keep you well informed about this case here. Personally, I will be heard as a witness in this process on a completely voluntarily basis. 

Thank you GBMW.

Good Morning Monkeys.

Janet
7:35 AM

++++++++++++++++++


Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
July 26, 2005


MANSUR: Because they were trying to hide their faces at that the hour, because we have to remember that the two Kalpoe brothers and Joran held on to the statement that they dropped Joran off at the beach and then went home. But here we have someone that says categorically that they did not go home, they were in the car with Joran. Joran was sitting in the driver`s seat.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/26/ng.01.html


Beth Twitty
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
February 23, 2006


BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ... Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/23/lkl.01.html


Freddy Arambatzis
Witness Statement
De Zaak Natalee Holloway
June 12, 2005


<snipped>

The next day, Tuesday May 31st 2005 in the afternoon, I was with Joran at the raquetclub. Joran looked worried. He asked me if I could remember what he had said the previous day about the girl. I told him yes. The girl had gone missing. The FBI had been to his house during the night but he had not been home. His father had called him to find out where he was, Joran said that he was in the Raddison Casino. He told he that after that phone call he was called on the phone by Deepak and that Deepak picked him up a few minutes later. They drove to Joran's house. The FBI and the girls family were at his house. After that Joran told me that Deepak, Satish and himself did not drop off the girl at the Holiday Inn Hotel, but that THE FOUR OF THEM drove to the beach at the north side of the Marriot Hotel. The girl had fallen several times on the way to the beach. Joran told me that at some point she "no longer came around/no longer regained consciousness" and that THEY had left her on the beach. He also told me that he had left his gym/sporting shoes on the beach. After Joran had told me this, I asked him why he had left her there. He answered me that at that moment he had not known what to do. Joran told me that after this HE WAS DROPPED OFF AT HOME BY DEEPAK AND SATISH.
TranslationCredit: Rammstein


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: katrien on April 05, 2008, 10:51:05 AM
The  latest theoryof Renee Gielen  is that the mother of Natalee is going to claim (or claimed already) money from the insurance company for Natalee.  This is supposed to be very suspicious. ::MonkeyConfused::

I thought Natalee was on the missing list of the FBI? What is wrong with Renee Gielen to write things like this? In the past she also wrote evident nonsence. ::MonkeyCool::

If Natalees mother is able to claim money from the insurance company for Natalee,  it is obvious that she is going to do so. She propably needs the money for all the trips, lawyers, stays in hotels, the plain for Natalee, etc. etc. All these costs are made because Joran and his father were fooling her around.
People from the village were Natalee was living, collected money to cover part of  the costs Natalees mother had to make.

It looks like a slander champagne against the mother of Natalee, Natalee, her father, her stepfather, her stepbrother, they all were mentioned in the champagne against Beth. They are also a bit slendery  towards Peter R and Patrick.
Some journalists call Patrick a betrayer. Pathetic.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Patrick did a bit detective work. Detectives in Holland are not allowed to do those kind of things. Patrick did not force Joran to say anything. Whats wrong with the interview? We all can see the tape and listen to what Joran is telling all by himself,  and after all the lies he told in the past.

There are also posters  claiming that Peter R and Patrick are to be blamed by causing the shock.  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 05, 2008, 11:08:38 AM
GBMW

Thanks for the translation.  I'm sure it is time consuming translating and typing it all out.

I like Patrick.  Just not so sure of his background to explain the Dutch law...LOL...

I wonder how much of the Dutch law, both civil and criminal is based on codes, modern law, and case law.  Are civil and criminal case law separate or would one pull from the same body of cases?

How new is the concept of civil law?  It would be interesting to know if the case law is in an easy to use database like Westlaw, in book form, or in some way published and distributed. 

Are transcripts kept of most cases?  Is this the norm or exception?

I've often wondered about the arguments that were reported between J2K in front of the judge.  What the heck did they argue about?  ::MonkeyShocked::

From the VanityFair article -

Quote
"This latest story [came] when he saw the other guys, the Kalpoes, were kind of finger-pointing in his direction, and he wanted to screw them also, by saying he was dropped off," Dompig says. "But that story doesn't check out at all. He just wanted to screw Deepak. They had great arguments about this in front of the judge. Because their stories didn't match. This girl, she was from Alabama, she's not going to stay in the car with two black kids. We believe the second story, that they were dropped off by the Marriott. But then the time line [Joran has given] starts to get into trouble."
::MonkeyNoNo::   


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 05, 2008, 11:20:53 AM
The  latest theoryof Renee Gielen  is that the mother of Natalee is going to claim (or claimed already) money from the insurance company for Natalee.  This is supposed to be very suspicious. ::MonkeyConfused::

I thought Natalee was on the missing list of the FBI? What is wrong with Renee Gielen to write things like this? In the past she also wrote evident nonsence. ::MonkeyCool::

If Natalees mother is able to claim money from the insurance company for Natalee,  it is obvious that she is going to do so. She propably needs the money for all the trips, lawyers, stays in hotels, the plain for Natalee, etc. etc. All these costs are made because Joran and his father were fooling her around.
People from the village were Natalee was living, collected money to cover part of  the costs Natalees mother had to make.

It looks like a slander champagne against the mother of Natalee, Natalee, her father, her stepfather, her stepbrother, they all were mentioned in the champagne against Beth. They are also a bit slendery  towards Peter R and Patrick.
Some journalists call Patrick a betrayer. Pathetic.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Patrick did a bit detective work. Detectives in Holland are not allowed to do those kind of things. Patrick did not force Joran to say anything. Whats wrong with the interview? We all can see the tape and listen to what Joran is telling all by himself,  and after all the lies he told in the past.

There are also posters  claiming that Peter R and Patrick are to be blamed by causing the shock.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

What insurance company could Beth recover costs from?  A policy the VDS may have?  The Dutch "personal liability" program I read about (I don't think they called it that exactly).

I think many will remember Joran mimicking Natalee's last moments/convulsions.  It is the stuff of nightmares. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: sharon on April 05, 2008, 11:23:52 AM
Thanks katrien.

I think they are saving the room next to Joran for Gielen  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 05, 2008, 11:30:04 AM
I wonder if the civil case is one step towards some international court?  Human rights case in the future?

Exhausting all possibilities?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: dennisintn on April 05, 2008, 11:35:20 AM
Thanks katrien.

I think they are saving the room next to Joran for Gielen  ::MonkeyHaHa::

gielen will be totally distraught. she was hoping for joint occupcancy with jvds and julia.
dennisintn


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: texasmom on April 05, 2008, 11:36:15 AM
Thanks katrien.

I think they are saving the room next to Joran for Gielen  ::MonkeyHaHa::


 :smt045


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on April 05, 2008, 11:47:03 AM
Thanks katrien.

I think they are saving the room next to Joran for Gielen  ::MonkeyHaHa::

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Fit Gielen with a nice jacket....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 05, 2008, 11:59:44 AM
I wonder if Joe T. will be orchestrating the Dutch civil case?

Holland is just a short hop from Italy, and that may work well for his schedule.  mo

Will he defend the whole family?  Just the evidence?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 05, 2008, 12:12:58 PM
The  latest theoryof Renee Gielen  is that the mother of Natalee is going to claim (or claimed already) money from the insurance company for Natalee.  This is supposed to be very suspicious. ::MonkeyConfused::

I thought Natalee was on the missing list of the FBI? What is wrong with Renee Gielen to write things like this? In the past she also wrote evident nonsence. ::MonkeyCool::

If Natalees mother is able to claim money from the insurance company for Natalee,  it is obvious that she is going to do so. She propably needs the money for all the trips, lawyers, stays in hotels, the plain for Natalee, etc. etc. All these costs are made because Joran and his father were fooling her around.
People from the village were Natalee was living, collected money to cover part of  the costs Natalees mother had to make.

It looks like a slander champagne against the mother of Natalee, Natalee, her father, her stepfather, her stepbrother, they all were mentioned in the champagne against Beth. They are also a bit slendery  towards Peter R and Patrick.
Some journalists call Patrick a betrayer. Pathetic.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Patrick did a bit detective work. Detectives in Holland are not allowed to do those kind of things. Patrick did not force Joran to say anything. Whats wrong with the interview? We all can see the tape and listen to what Joran is telling all by himself,  and after all the lies he told in the past.

There are also posters  claiming that Peter R and Patrick are to be blamed by causing the shock.  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Renee Gielen has always been a VDS' apologist.  To further her agenda ... she creates smokescreen meant to direct negative attention on Natalee and ... her family.

Maybe it was the official press release from Rudy Croes' that convinced Beth that her daughter was no longer alive.

Maybe it was the suspicions which warranted the detention of the formal suspects in the Natalee Holloway case that convinced Beth that Natalee was deceased.

Janet

++++++++++++++++++

Spokesperson for the Aruban Minister
Associated Press
June 11, 2005


ORANJESTAD, Aruba Reports conflicted Saturday in developments of the Alabama honor student who has been missing in Aruba for almost two weeks.

David Cruz, a spokesman for the Aruban Minister of Justice (search) told FOX News Natalee Holloway (search), who was on vacation with friends with a graduation trip when she disappeared, was confirmed dead and that authorities knew the location of her body.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159252,00.html


Beth Twitty
'Scarborough Country'
July 12, 2005

HOLLOWAY TWITTY: And that was the day that the FBI came in, Doug Shipley (ph) came in and said that the way the interrogations are unfolding, theres a strong possibility that Natalee may not be alive. That was huge. That was the day thatI think, Joe, everyone buried Natalee that day, on June 10.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9813596/


JUNE, 2005

Mickey John:  first and second-degree murder and capital kidnapping.

Abraham Jones:  first and second-degree murder and capital kidnapping.
 
Joran van der Sloot:  Suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder

Deepak Kalpoe:   Suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder.

Satish Kalpoe:  Suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder.

Steve Croes:   Suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder.   

Paulus van der Sloot:  complicity to pre-meditated murder, complicity to kidnapping and murder and kidnapping.


AUGUST, 2005

Deepak Kalpoe:  Suspected of the primary criminal act of together with other people committing premeditated murder, alternately together with other people murdering somebody, more alternately rob a person of her liberty with fatal consequences and even more alternately, raping somebody and new suspicions.

Satish Kalpoe:  Suspected of the primary criminal act of together with other people committing premeditated murder, alternately together with other people murdering somebody, more alternately rob a person of her liberty with fatal consequences and even more alternately, raping somebody and new suspicions


APRIL, 2006

Geoffrey van Cromvoirt:  criminal offenses that may be related to the disappearance" of Natalee Holloway.

Guido Weaver:  Assisting in the murder, heavy battery and kidnapping" of the teen


NOVEMBER, 2007

Joran van der Sloot - Suspicion of involvement in voluntary manslaughter  and causing serious bodily hare that result in death.

Satish Kalpoe -  Suspicion of involvement in voluntary manslaughter  and causing serious bodily hare that result in death.

Deepak Kalpoe - Suspicion of involvement in voluntary manslaughter  and causing serious bodily hare that result in death.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: katrien on April 05, 2008, 12:16:00 PM
The  latest theory of Renee Gielen  is that the mother of Natalee is going to claim (or claimed already) money from the insurance company for Natalee.  This is supposed to be very suspicious. ::MonkeyConfused::

I thought Natalee was on the missing list of the FBI? What is wrong with Renee Gielen to write things like this? In the past she also wrote evident nonsense. ::MonkeyCool::

If Natalees mother is able to claim money from the insurance company for Natalee,  it is obvious that she is going to do so. She propably needs the money for all the trips, lawyers, stays in hotels, the plain for Natalee, etc. etc. All these costs are made because Joran and his father were fooling her around.
People from the village were Natalee was living, collected money to cover part of  the costs Natalees mother had to make.

It looks like a slander champagne against the mother of Natalee, Natalee, her father, her stepfather, her stepbrother, they all were mentioned in the champagne against Beth. They are also a bit slenderly towards Peter R and Patrick.
Some journalists call Patrick a betrayer. Pathetic.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Patrick did a bit detective work. Detectives in Holland are not allowed to do those kind of things. Patrick did not force Joran to say anything. Whats wrong with the interview? We all can see the tape and listen to what Joran is telling all by himself,  and after all the lies he told in the past.

There are also posters  claiming that Peter R and Patrick are to be blamed by causing the shock.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

What insurance company could Beth recover costs from?  A policy the VDS may have?  The Dutch "personal liability" program I read about (I don't think they called it that exactly).

I think many will remember Joran mimicking Natalee's last moments/convulsions.  It is the stuff of nightmares. 

It was possible that there was a live insurance on Natalee's live. I do not know what's usual in America with those kind of things.
In Holland it is usual for people to do this on eachothers lives when they buy a house or something like that.

Does this mean that there was no live-insurance at all? Is this another lie or false suggestion from Renee Gielen?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 05, 2008, 12:26:24 PM
The  latest theoryof Renee Gielen  is that the mother of Natalee is going to claim (or claimed already) money from the insurance company for Natalee.  This is supposed to be very suspicious. ::MonkeyConfused::

I thought Natalee was on the missing list of the FBI? What is wrong with Renee Gielen to write things like this? In the past she also wrote evident nonsence. ::MonkeyCool::

If Natalees mother is able to claim money from the insurance company for Natalee,  it is obvious that she is going to do so. She propably needs the money for all the trips, lawyers, stays in hotels, the plain for Natalee, etc. etc. All these costs are made because Joran and his father were fooling her around.
People from the village were Natalee was living, collected money to cover part of  the costs Natalees mother had to make.

It looks like a slander champagne against the mother of Natalee, Natalee, her father, her stepfather, her stepbrother, they all were mentioned in the champagne against Beth. They are also a bit slendery  towards Peter R and Patrick.
Some journalists call Patrick a betrayer. Pathetic.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Patrick did a bit detective work. Detectives in Holland are not allowed to do those kind of things. Patrick did not force Joran to say anything. Whats wrong with the interview? We all can see the tape and listen to what Joran is telling all by himself,  and after all the lies he told in the past.

There are also posters  claiming that Peter R and Patrick are to be blamed by causing the shock.  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Hi Katrien
I have covered this area. Natalee has NOT BEEN DECLARED DEAD.  There will be no policy pay out unless she is declared deceased. The normal period is 7 years. Steve Fosset was recently declared deceased BEFORE THE 7 YEAR PERIOD. That is the first time I have ever seen that happen. It would not happen for Natalee. There are many reasons. The first and foremost would be she does not have an estate to settle.

Any insurance Dave or Beth had on Natalee would be called a children's rider, which pays for a burial and it not usually more than 10 or 12 thousand dollars.

I have no knowledge of any type(s)of policies or riders the Holloways have for Natalee, but an individual policy would be rare for an 18 year old unless they were a child star or independently wealthy. In a case where the person aged 18 was independently wealthy there might be no need to insure that person.

Insurance is to indemnify the survivors - to make "whole" as if the person was still here, and all goes on as normal. Natalee had no children.

Beth and Dave need to be indemnified by the assailants.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: dennisintn on April 05, 2008, 12:32:52 PM
The  latest theory of Renee Gielen  is that the mother of Natalee is going to claim (or claimed already) money from the insurance company for Natalee.  This is supposed to be very suspicious. ::MonkeyConfused::

I thought Natalee was on the missing list of the FBI? What is wrong with Renee Gielen to write things like this? In the past she also wrote evident nonsense. ::MonkeyCool::

If Natalees mother is able to claim money from the insurance company for Natalee,  it is obvious that she is going to do so. She propably needs the money for all the trips, lawyers, stays in hotels, the plain for Natalee, etc. etc. All these costs are made because Joran and his father were fooling her around.
People from the village were Natalee was living, collected money to cover part of  the costs Natalees mother had to make.

It looks like a slander champagne against the mother of Natalee, Natalee, her father, her stepfather, her stepbrother, they all were mentioned in the champagne against Beth. They are also a bit slenderly towards Peter R and Patrick.
Some journalists call Patrick a betrayer. Pathetic.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Patrick did a bit detective work. Detectives in Holland are not allowed to do those kind of things. Patrick did not force Joran to say anything. Whats wrong with the interview? We all can see the tape and listen to what Joran is telling all by himself,  and after all the lies he told in the past.

There are also posters  claiming that Peter R and Patrick are to be blamed by causing the shock.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

What insurance company could Beth recover costs from?  A policy the VDS may have?  The Dutch "personal liability" program I read about (I don't think they called it that exactly).

I think many will remember Joran mimicking Natalee's last moments/convulsions.  It is the stuff of nightmares. 

It was possible that there was a live insurance on Natalee's live. I do not know what's usual in America with those kind of things.
In Holland it is usual for people to do this on eachothers lives when they buy a house or something like that.

Does this mean that there was no live-insurance at all? Is this another lie or false suggestion from Renee Gielen?

every time gielen opens her mouth about this case, a lie comes out, or a total distortion of the truth that makes it a lie.  dave said early on there was a small policy on natalee he had taken out when she was a child.  it would have been enough for a funeral back then, but i doubt it would pay for one now.
dennisintn


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: bleachedblack on April 05, 2008, 12:42:19 PM
Klaas, sorry for OT but when you get a chance can you mark Lynn Doris May
as FOUND. TIA


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 05, 2008, 12:44:12 PM
IIRC, there was a small 'burial' policy on Natalee.  I believe KJ investigated the family finances at one point in time.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Nut44x4 on April 05, 2008, 12:52:48 PM
Klaas, sorry for OT but when you get a chance can you mark Lynn Doris May
as FOUND. TIA

O/T one here too in unsolved crimes...
please mark remains found
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1010.msg371045#new

TY in Adv.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Nut44x4 on April 05, 2008, 01:09:32 PM
The freaks at RU have been screaming 'insurance scheme'  for 3.5 years. The shit they have spewed about that would curdle milk. :roll:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 05, 2008, 01:11:39 PM
If there was an life insurance policy taken out on Natalee Holloway's life ... so what!!  Dave Holloway was in the life insurance business.  The life insurance issue is nothing but a smokescreen created by Aruba and their internet trolls to take the focus off of Joran and Paulus' involvement in the events that encompass the morning that Natalee went missing.

Anyways ... IIRC Dave did state that there was a policy taken out on Natalee and Matt's life when they were very young.

Janet

+++++++++++++++

Dave Holloway
Bon Dia
September 20, 2005


<snipped?

On the matter of life insurance, Dave denies that he took out a life insurance of millions on his daughter. And he also discards the possibility that Natalee ran way from home, seeing all that Natalee herself was telling him and the plans that his daughter was telling him about that she wanted to accomplish before she started with the University.

<snipped>

Translation

http://www.bondia.com/

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/09/20/dave-holloway-i-cant-stand-behind-the-call-for-a-boycott-against-aruba/


Jug Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
September 28, 2005


TWITTY: No. She talked about the issues as far as Natalee, you know, having problems with her family with Beth and I or with her father, or whatever. Of course, all this stuff was talked about way early on in the investigation. She talked about $1 million life insurance policy on Natalee, which is just crazy. She talked about my brother being in the banking business, being in money laundering. And I mean, I just dont know where this stuffs coming from, Greta. Its like shes not even trying to find out the answers, shes trying to find out everything, you know, that could be wrong, as far as our family goes. You know, it drives me crazy.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,170678,00.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: bleachedblack on April 05, 2008, 01:39:54 PM
The  latest theoryof Renee Gielen  is that the mother of Natalee is going to claim (or claimed already) money from the insurance company for Natalee.  This is supposed to be very suspicious. ::MonkeyConfused::

I thought Natalee was on the missing list of the FBI? What is wrong with Renee Gielen to write things like this? In the past she also wrote evident nonsence. ::MonkeyCool::

If Natalees mother is able to claim money from the insurance company for Natalee,  it is obvious that she is going to do so. She propably needs the money for all the trips, lawyers, stays in hotels, the plain for Natalee, etc. etc. All these costs are made because Joran and his father were fooling her around.
People from the village were Natalee was living, collected money to cover part of  the costs Natalees mother had to make.

It looks like a slander champagne against the mother of Natalee, Natalee, her father, her stepfather, her stepbrother, they all were mentioned in the champagne against Beth. They are also a bit slendery  towards Peter R and Patrick.
Some journalists call Patrick a betrayer. Pathetic.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Patrick did a bit detective work. Detectives in Holland are not allowed to do those kind of things. Patrick did not force Joran to say anything. Whats wrong with the interview? We all can see the tape and listen to what Joran is telling all by himself,  and after all the lies he told in the past.

There are also posters  claiming that Peter R and Patrick are to be blamed by causing the shock.  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Actually Natalee is not on the FBI Missing Person Investigations. She is listed in Seeking Information.
 
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seekinfo/seek.htm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: bleachedblack on April 05, 2008, 01:41:27 PM
GBMW

Thanks for the translation.  I'm sure it is time consuming translating and typing it all out.

I like Patrick.  Just not so sure of his background to explain the Dutch law...LOL...

Yes thank-you GBMW for the translation, it was a very interesting read.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 05, 2008, 01:41:33 PM
Do any of you think that Urine could turn up *missing* before he can be served with a court summons?  I do...I don't put anything past these whackos...in that event...whom would Beth sue?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 05, 2008, 01:42:42 PM
GBMW

Thanks for the translation.  I'm sure it is time consuming translating and typing it all out.

I like Patrick.  Just not so sure of his background to explain the Dutch law...LOL...

Yes thank-you GBMW for the translation, it was a very interesting read.

GBMW...Thanks from me too ;-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 05, 2008, 01:59:38 PM
Do any of you think that Urine could turn up *missing* before he can be served with a court summons?  I do...I don't put anything past these whackos...in that event...whom would Beth sue?


Joran is mentally incompetent to stand trial....what is wrong with you people?  The poor little thing has been traumatized beyond belief...having watched a girl die in his arms and then dragging her body into the bushes and then having to locate Daury in the midst of said trauma!  Surely, you don't think the sproter could endure a trial about a mother's grief and suffering after what he went through?  Have you no mercy?    :roll:  (sarcasm included free of charge)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 05, 2008, 02:03:59 PM
Do any of you think that Urine could turn up *missing* before he can be served with a court summons?  I do...I don't put anything past these whackos...in that event...whom would Beth sue?


Joran is mentally incompetent to stand trial....what is wrong with you people?  The poor little thing has been traumatized beyond belief...having watched a girl die in his arms and then dragging her body into the bushes and then having to locate Daury in the midst of said trauma!  Surely, you don't think the sproter could endure a trial about a mother's grief and suffering after what he went through?  Have you no mercy?    :roll:  (sarcasm included free of charge)
[/quote

Awwwww...poor baby...do you think I should bake him some cookies?  ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: I have a great hemlock recipe... ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 05, 2008, 02:12:02 PM
Hemlock?   ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 05, 2008, 02:21:15 PM
Hemlock?   ::MonkeyCool::

Suuuure....you've heard of them...oatmeal, raisen, hemlock cookies ;-)    Urines' FAV...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 05, 2008, 02:22:11 PM
Hemlock?   ::MonkeyCool::

Suuuure....you've heard of them...oatmeal, raisen, hemlock cookies ;-)    Urines' FAV...

Maybe a few chokky chips too? LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Magnolia on April 05, 2008, 02:27:55 PM
The  latest theory of Renee Gielen  is that the mother of Natalee is going to claim (or claimed already) money from the insurance company for Natalee.  This is supposed to be very suspicious. ::MonkeyConfused::

I thought Natalee was on the missing list of the FBI? What is wrong with Renee Gielen to write things like this? In the past she also wrote evident nonsense. ::MonkeyCool::

If Natalees mother is able to claim money from the insurance company for Natalee,  it is obvious that she is going to do so. She propably needs the money for all the trips, lawyers, stays in hotels, the plain for Natalee, etc. etc. All these costs are made because Joran and his father were fooling her around.
People from the village were Natalee was living, collected money to cover part of  the costs Natalees mother had to make.

It looks like a slander champagne against the mother of Natalee, Natalee, her father, her stepfather, her stepbrother, they all were mentioned in the champagne against Beth. They are also a bit slenderly towards Peter R and Patrick.
Some journalists call Patrick a betrayer. Pathetic.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Patrick did a bit detective work. Detectives in Holland are not allowed to do those kind of things. Patrick did not force Joran to say anything. Whats wrong with the interview? We all can see the tape and listen to what Joran is telling all by himself,  and after all the lies he told in the past.

There are also posters  claiming that Peter R and Patrick are to be blamed by causing the shock.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

What insurance company could Beth recover costs from?  A policy the VDS may have?  The Dutch "personal liability" program I read about (I don't think they called it that exactly).

I think many will remember Joran mimicking Natalee's last moments/convulsions.  It is the stuff of nightmares. 

It was possible that there was a live insurance on Natalee's live. I do not know what's usual in America with those kind of things.
In Holland it is usual for people to do this on eachothers lives when they buy a house or something like that.

Does this mean that there was no live-insurance at all? Is this another lie or false suggestion from Renee Gielen?

In the American South, most families took out small burial policies
on themsleves and their children.  For the children usually about
$750.....not nearly enough to cover a funeral, but something.
It was just standard proceedure in nearly all families.
I have heard Dave say that the only insurance he had on Natalee
was a small burial policy.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on April 05, 2008, 02:28:44 PM
I wonder if anyone has seen Rebecca on aruba lately?
:::::hehehe::::::

Executives will remain in custody
National Century group allegedly plotted to flee U.S.
Friday,  April 4, 2008 3:21 AM
By Jodi Andes

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH
 
Donald H. Ayers
 
James E. Dierker Jr.
 
Roger S. Faulkenberry
 
Rebecca S. Parrett
 
Randolph H. SpeerFour executives convicted last month in the downfall of National Century Financial Enterprises will stay in jail, a federal judge decided yesterday.

Judge Algenon L. Marbley rejected efforts by attorneys for some of the defendants to discredit information from an informant that the executives had plotted to flee to Aruba if convicted.

"Make no mistake about it," Marbley said. "We don't have individuals who are presumed innocent. We have individuals who were found guilty. The (court's) presumption is in favor of detention."

Former National Century executives Donald H. Ayers, James E. Dierker Jr., Roger S. Faulkenberry, Rebecca S. Parrett and Randolph H. Speer were convicted March 13 of fraud connected to the company's collapse.

But defense attorneys Fred Benton and Leonard Yelsky argued yesterday that the story about leaving the country was a baseless spiel coming from a twice-convicted murderer looking to gain favor with the government.

The judge didn't entertain the debate on the informant long before issuing his order.

The five former National Century executives had been free on bond pending sentencing, despite assistant U.S. Attorney Doug Squires' recommendation against it. A hearing will be held April 16 to determine whether the bonds will be revoked permanently.

Defense attorneys had countered that their defendants should remain free -- an accommodation allowed in federal court if the felons are not a flight risk or danger to the community. At the time, the judge agreed.

But two things have changed since then, Marbley noted yesterday to a courtroom full of supporters for Dierker and Faulkenberry.

First, Parrett disappeared. She had been allowed to return to her home in Carefree, Ariz., but did not appear as ordered to be fitted with a tracking device. On March 27, a warrant was issued for her arrest.

Then, on Tuesday, FBI agent Kevin Horan learned of conversations that an informant had with former National Century President Lance K. Poulsen, who is in jail awaiting trial.

Poulsen allegedly told the informant that executives agreed long ago that if convicted, they would flee to Aruba, a Caribbean island off the coast of Venezuela.

"I cannot turn a blind eye to the fact that one of the defendants of the conspiracy has already fled, which gives some legitimacy to the theory," Marbley said.

Defense attorneys wanted the name of the informant, but were denied.

Yelsky said he had given the court 105 letters from Dierker's friends and family who were vouching for him, including executives from Victoria's Secret, where Dierker is a vice president of marketing.

Faulkenberry's wife, Jacqueline, said the informant's story was bogus. The first time her husband heard any mention of Aruba was after she told him about it yesterday afternoon, she said.

She learned of his arrest and claims of the conspiracy from news reports on the Internet, and later talked to him in the Franklin County jail, she said.

Ayers and Speer were arrested Wednesday at their homes in Florida and Georgia, respectively, and are expected to be brought back to Columbus in the next 10 days, Marbley said.

Parrett remains at large.

The former executives were convicted of fraud that led to investors losing $1.9 billion.

National Century was a health-care financing company that bought accounts receivable from doctors, clinics, nursing homes and small hospitals. The company used investor-backed funding to give the health-care providers money to pay for daily operations and kept a percentage of what was collected from the medical bills.

http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2008/04/04/norelease.ART_ART_04-04-08_C10_8P9R2G7.html?sid=101



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: caesu on April 05, 2008, 02:30:39 PM
Quote
Wilders offended everybody

Geert Wilders not only offends Moslems with his anti-quran film Fitna, but all of us. This says minister Ernst Hirsch Ballin today in a interview with this newspaper.

The minister of justice has this view not from himself, he confesses. It is of his wife. It is a perfect summary of what I mean.

In the interview Hirsch Ballin looks back at the debate concerning the film Fitna. Wilders called him in the House of Commons someone who lies and fools people. Those descriptions don't do much to Hirsch Ballin. On the long run the facts will speak. More than anything.

http://www.trouw.nl/hetnieuws/nederland/article958480.ece/Wilders_beledigt_ons_allemaal

(http://i30.tinypic.com/14n1hlh.jpg)
justice Minister Hirsch Ballin

reminder:

*Wilders PVV was the only party who spoke out for Natalee
http://www.geertwilders.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1435&Itemid=103
*PVV member Hero Brinkman is calling Aruba / Antilles a 'corrupt gangsters nest'
http://www.ad.nl/binnenland/article1952291.ece?nscategory=topStoryA

i personaly think this government is in its last throes.
different polls show 30% up to 60% or even more of the population think the government lied in last weeks debate.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 05, 2008, 02:34:26 PM
I would just like to THANK our DUTCH posters for all the links and translations they share with us from the NL.  You guys have been great!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 05, 2008, 02:42:55 PM
Could one of our Dutch Monkeys please provided a translation of this article.

Thank you.

Janet

++++++++++++++++


http://www.geertwilders.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1435&Itemid=103

Pingunpak - Weblog       
vrijdag 08 februari 2008

 
Deze week vroeg mijn fractiegenoot Raymond de Roon om een spoeddebat naar aanleiding van de opzienbarende ontwikkelingen rond de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway. Het verzoek werd door de andere partijen afgewezen. Heel Nederland praat erover, maar de Tweede Kamer zwijgt. Weer een schoolvoorbeeld van de enorme kloof tussen de burgers en de Haagse politiek. Samen met fractiegenoot Barry Madlener vroeg Raymond de Roon deze week ook de veiligheid in de trein te bevorderen. Het openbaar vervoer hoort veel veiliger te zijn dan nu vaak het geval is. Mijn collega Fleur Agema stelde deze week voor om vrouwen die een abortus ondergaan deze voortaan in beginsel zelf te laten betalen. Vandaag komt het kabinet mogelijk met een voorstel om de boerka te verbieden op scholen, in het openbaar vervoer en voor ambtenaren. Dat voorstel is veel en veel te slap. De boerka levert een ongewenst veiligheidsrisico op. De boerka is ook een symbool van vrouwenonderdrukking en daarom onverenigbaar met de democratische rechtsstaat. Ook belemmert de boerka de emancipatie van vrouwen, en in een pingunpak kun je niet integreren. Daarom moet de boerka helemaal uit het straatbeeld verdwijnen. Mijn collega Sietse Fritsma en ik hebben daartoe vorig jaar al een wetsvoorstel ingediend. Een goed weekend. Tot volgende week vrijdag.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: katrien on April 05, 2008, 02:53:04 PM
IIRC, there was a small 'burial' policy on Natalee.  I believe KJ investigated the family finances at one point in time.



In Holland most parents have "burial" policies on their children. So what is Renee Gielens problem? ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: katrien on April 05, 2008, 03:00:30 PM
The  latest theory of Renee Gielen  is that the mother of Natalee is going to claim (or claimed already) money from the insurance company for Natalee.  This is supposed to be very suspicious. ::MonkeyConfused::

I thought Natalee was on the missing list of the FBI? What is wrong with Renee Gielen to write things like this? In the past she also wrote evident nonsense. ::MonkeyCool::

If Natalees mother is able to claim money from the insurance company for Natalee,  it is obvious that she is going to do so. She propably needs the money for all the trips, lawyers, stays in hotels, the plain for Natalee, etc. etc. All these costs are made because Joran and his father were fooling her around.
People from the village were Natalee was living, collected money to cover part of  the costs Natalees mother had to make.

It looks like a slander champagne against the mother of Natalee, Natalee, her father, her stepfather, her stepbrother, they all were mentioned in the champagne against Beth. They are also a bit slenderly towards Peter R and Patrick.
Some journalists call Patrick a betrayer. Pathetic.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Patrick did a bit detective work. Detectives in Holland are not allowed to do those kind of things. Patrick did not force Joran to say anything. Whats wrong with the interview? We all can see the tape and listen to what Joran is telling all by himself,  and after all the lies he told in the past.

There are also posters  claiming that Peter R and Patrick are to be blamed by causing the shock.  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Actually Natalee is not on the FBI Missing Person Investigations. She is listed in Seeking Information.
 
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seekinfo/seek.htm

Thanks for the link.

I knew about another link, but probably Natalee was on that list before.

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seekinfo/holloway.htm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: GBMW on April 05, 2008, 03:13:25 PM
GBMW

Thanks for the translation.  I'm sure it is time consuming translating and typing it all out.

I like Patrick.  Just not so sure of his background to explain the Dutch law...LOL...

Yes thank-you GBMW for the translation, it was a very interesting read.

GBMW...Thanks from me too ;-)

You're all VERY welcome! It was done in a hurry so when I read it later on I saw some mistakes but I hope that will be forgiven ;-) It's not really necessary but is there a way I can edit the post a bit?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: GBMW on April 05, 2008, 03:22:11 PM
Could one of our Dutch Monkeys please provided a translation of this article.

Thank you.

Janet

++++++++++++++++


http://www.geertwilders.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1435&Itemid=103

Pingunpak - Weblog       
vrijdag 08 februari 2008

 
Deze week vroeg mijn fractiegenoot Raymond de Roon om een spoeddebat naar aanleiding van de opzienbarende ontwikkelingen rond de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway. Het verzoek werd door de andere partijen afgewezen. Heel Nederland praat erover, maar de Tweede Kamer zwijgt. Weer een schoolvoorbeeld van de enorme kloof tussen de burgers en de Haagse politiek. Samen met fractiegenoot Barry Madlener vroeg Raymond de Roon deze week ook de veiligheid in de trein te bevorderen. Het openbaar vervoer hoort veel veiliger te zijn dan nu vaak het geval is. Mijn collega Fleur Agema stelde deze week voor om vrouwen die een abortus ondergaan deze voortaan in beginsel zelf te laten betalen. Vandaag komt het kabinet mogelijk met een voorstel om de boerka te verbieden op scholen, in het openbaar vervoer en voor ambtenaren. Dat voorstel is veel en veel te slap. De boerka levert een ongewenst veiligheidsrisico op. De boerka is ook een symbool van vrouwenonderdrukking en daarom onverenigbaar met de democratische rechtsstaat. Ook belemmert de boerka de emancipatie van vrouwen, en in een pingunpak kun je niet integreren. Daarom moet de boerka helemaal uit het straatbeeld verdwijnen. Mijn collega Sietse Fritsma en ik hebben daartoe vorig jaar al een wetsvoorstel ingediend. Een goed weekend. Tot volgende week vrijdag.


I've translated the quote with a reference to the case:

Deze week vroeg mijn fractiegenoot Raymond de Roon om een spoeddebat naar aanleiding van de opzienbarende ontwikkelingen rond de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway. Het verzoek werd door de andere partijen afgewezen. Heel Nederland praat erover, maar de Tweede Kamer zwijgt. Weer een schoolvoorbeeld van de enorme kloof tussen de burgers en de Haagse politiek.

This week my colleage Raymond Boon requested an urgent (not the right translation...it's a kind of debat that isn't scheduled) debat because of the dramatic developments surrounding the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The request was rejected by the other parties. Everybody in the Netherlands is talking about it but the political side stays silent. Another example of the huge gap between the people and the Hague politics.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 05, 2008, 03:27:53 PM
Could one of our Dutch Monkeys please provided a translation of this article.

Thank you.

Janet

++++++++++++++++


http://www.geertwilders.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1435&Itemid=103

Pingunpak - Weblog       
vrijdag 08 februari 2008

 
Deze week vroeg mijn fractiegenoot Raymond de Roon om een spoeddebat naar aanleiding van de opzienbarende ontwikkelingen rond de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway. Het verzoek werd door de andere partijen afgewezen. Heel Nederland praat erover, maar de Tweede Kamer zwijgt. Weer een schoolvoorbeeld van de enorme kloof tussen de burgers en de Haagse politiek. Samen met fractiegenoot Barry Madlener vroeg Raymond de Roon deze week ook de veiligheid in de trein te bevorderen. Het openbaar vervoer hoort veel veiliger te zijn dan nu vaak het geval is. Mijn collega Fleur Agema stelde deze week voor om vrouwen die een abortus ondergaan deze voortaan in beginsel zelf te laten betalen. Vandaag komt het kabinet mogelijk met een voorstel om de boerka te verbieden op scholen, in het openbaar vervoer en voor ambtenaren. Dat voorstel is veel en veel te slap. De boerka levert een ongewenst veiligheidsrisico op. De boerka is ook een symbool van vrouwenonderdrukking en daarom onverenigbaar met de democratische rechtsstaat. Ook belemmert de boerka de emancipatie van vrouwen, en in een pingunpak kun je niet integreren. Daarom moet de boerka helemaal uit het straatbeeld verdwijnen. Mijn collega Sietse Fritsma en ik hebben daartoe vorig jaar al een wetsvoorstel ingediend. Een goed weekend. Tot volgende week vrijdag.


I've translated the quote with a reference to the case:

Deze week vroeg mijn fractiegenoot Raymond de Roon om een spoeddebat naar aanleiding van de opzienbarende ontwikkelingen rond de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway. Het verzoek werd door de andere partijen afgewezen. Heel Nederland praat erover, maar de Tweede Kamer zwijgt. Weer een schoolvoorbeeld van de enorme kloof tussen de burgers en de Haagse politiek.

This week my colleage Raymond Boon requested an urgent (not the right translation...it's a kind of debat that isn't scheduled) debat because of the dramatic developments surrounding the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The request was rejected by the other parties. Everybody in the Netherlands is talking about it but the political side stays silent. Another example of the huge gap between the people and the Hague politics.

Thank you very much GBMW.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: GBMW on April 05, 2008, 03:35:14 PM
You guys have been great!

Right back at ya!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: texasmom on April 05, 2008, 04:47:52 PM
I would just like to THANK our DUTCH posters for all the links and translations they share with us from the NL.  You guys have been great!



::MonkeyDance::  ::MonkeyDance:: I agree!  ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: Thanks Dutch Monkeys!! ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: jackb on April 05, 2008, 05:28:42 PM
Still getting ready to leave the house...was surfing a little...don't know if this has been posted...interesting link to an small elite group of property owners in Aruba...

http://surfsidevillas.com/index.php?board=3.0

exerpt from site:

Aruba Racquet Club is now proudly offering its latest master community, Surfside Villas, clustered around Aruba's 8-court Racquet Club site, Aruba's Southwestern coast.

 This new and exiting residential area is just two miles away from Tierra del Sol, an 18-hole course designed by golfing legend Robert Trent Jones. One of Aruba’s most popular beaches, Fishermen Huts, home of the Aruba Hi-Winds Pro-Am Windsurf Competition is
within a short walking distance from Surfside Villas.
The island’s most fabulous high-rise resorts, their glittering casinos, showrooms and gourmet restaurants lie beckoning just outside Surfside Villas gate.

The development enjoys a truly unique location. The existing Aruba Racquet Club, established into the heart of the residence. By the time it is completely remodeled Aruba Racquet Club will offer besides the 8-court tennis area, a practice area, a beautiful landscaped swimming pool, modern club house, convenient parking, a cocktail lounge, restaurants, professional basketball, volleyball, squash court, and even a court for petanque, better known as “bollas” in the Caribbean. The facility will also encompass a fitness club, an activity area and a cleverly laid-out children’s playground.
Home-owners at Surfside Villas will naturally have access to all facilities for reduced prices, for as often and as long as they wish. (A small maintenance fee will be posted at the end of each month to help with the upkeep of all public spaces.)

Surfside Villas consists of 35 plots of land ranging in size from 500 to 900 square meters and easily accessible via a paved road.

On the developer’s drawing board you’ll find out different, beautifully designed Caribbean Villas, conceived by well-known architect, Orlando Hoevertsz, a contributor to the Radisson Aruba Caribbean Resort project. Each architectural drawing will be accompanied by a detailed list of features. Additionally, Surfside Villas guarantees that the area will be exclusively dedicated to family home, protecting the beauty and integrity of the site.

At Surfside Villas, great attention has been placed to detail. The plants in your front yard will be fully grown by the time your family moves in. Natural materials have been selected for construction such as; brick stones and decorative wrought iron. The exterior of the homes will display rustic plaster, in attractive earthy tones. Comfort, luxury and exquisite taste combined here to offer you an opportunity of a lifetime, a high quality living at an affordable price.

Your signature, on a provisional purchase agreement and a 10% down payment is all it takes to make your dream of owning a charming Caribbean Villa, true. The agreement will stipulate the rest of the purchase information.



Thank You Destiny....I am collecting as much info as I can on the Racquet Club...this is a good one! ::MonkeyWink::

most of this was owned by louis manseur.  he sold off some 1500 (units of time shares)  See Aruba News Help Desk.  I saw it on there.  It may be way over that.  That is just what I could remember, but seems like he owned way more than that.  He owned about 90 percent of the time shares, etc. on that island.  Good Luck.  PS:  I am at my temp. destination.  Will be on here with this drated hot-azzed lap top.   jackb


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dayhiker on April 05, 2008, 05:46:24 PM

It was possible that there was a live insurance on Natalee's live. I do not know what's usual in America with those kind of things.
In Holland it is usual for people to do this on eachothers lives when they buy a house or something like that.

Does this mean that there was no live-insurance at all? Is this another lie or false suggestion from Renee Gielen?

every time gielen opens her mouth about this case, a lie comes out, or a total distortion of the truth that makes it a lie.  dave said early on there was a small policy on natalee he had taken out when she was a child.  it would have been enough for a funeral back then, but i doubt it would pay for one now.
dennisintn


You nailed it Dennis. This is nothing but a rehash of the AHATA/Renfro/Dompig bullshit that was floated 2 years ago and resurfaces every time their last rehash gets debunked.

These assholes don't have an original bone in their body so have to upchuck the same old crap every now and then to try to keep the focus off of Joran.

Gelien can't get any traction on anything she floats. She is a joke to the Prosecutors, obviously, they didn't even have time to mess with her.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dayhiker on April 05, 2008, 05:48:24 PM
The  latest theory of Renee Gielen  is that the mother of Natalee is going to claim (or claimed already) money from the insurance company for Natalee.  This is supposed to be very suspicious. ::MonkeyConfused::

I thought Natalee was on the missing list of the FBI? What is wrong with Renee Gielen to write things like this? In the past she also wrote evident nonsense. ::MonkeyCool::

If Natalees mother is able to claim money from the insurance company for Natalee,  it is obvious that she is going to do so. She propably needs the money for all the trips, lawyers, stays in hotels, the plain for Natalee, etc. etc. All these costs are made because Joran and his father were fooling her around.
People from the village were Natalee was living, collected money to cover part of  the costs Natalees mother had to make.

It looks like a slander champagne against the mother of Natalee, Natalee, her father, her stepfather, her stepbrother, they all were mentioned in the champagne against Beth. They are also a bit slenderly towards Peter R and Patrick.
Some journalists call Patrick a betrayer. Pathetic.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Patrick did a bit detective work. Detectives in Holland are not allowed to do those kind of things. Patrick did not force Joran to say anything. Whats wrong with the interview? We all can see the tape and listen to what Joran is telling all by himself,  and after all the lies he told in the past.

There are also posters  claiming that Peter R and Patrick are to be blamed by causing the shock.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

What insurance company could Beth recover costs from?  A policy the VDS may have?  The Dutch "personal liability" program I read about (I don't think they called it that exactly).

I think many will remember Joran mimicking Natalee's last moments/convulsions.  It is the stuff of nightmares. 

It was possible that there was a live insurance on Natalee's live. I do not know what's usual in America with those kind of things.
In Holland it is usual for people to do this on eachothers lives when they buy a house or something like that.

Does this mean that there was no live-insurance at all? Is this another lie or false suggestion from Renee Gielen?

every time gielen opens her mouth about this case, a lie comes out, or a total distortion of the truth that makes it a lie.  dave said early on there was a small policy on natalee he had taken out when she was a child.  it would have been enough for a funeral back then, but i doubt it would pay for one now.
dennisintn


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dayhiker on April 05, 2008, 05:50:22 PM

Sorry that last post got messed up Klaas and San. please delete it. Thanks!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dayhiker on April 05, 2008, 05:51:48 PM
You guys have been great!

Right back at ya!


You folks are great GBMW and have added a new dimension to the forum. Thanks! ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dayhiker on April 05, 2008, 05:54:07 PM

I've translated the quote with a reference to the case:

Deze week vroeg mijn fractiegenoot Raymond de Roon om een spoeddebat naar aanleiding van de opzienbarende ontwikkelingen rond de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway. Het verzoek werd door de andere partijen afgewezen. Heel Nederland praat erover, maar de Tweede Kamer zwijgt. Weer een schoolvoorbeeld van de enorme kloof tussen de burgers en de Haagse politiek.

This week my colleage Raymond Boon requested an urgent (not the right translation...it's a kind of debat that isn't scheduled) debat because of the dramatic developments surrounding the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The request was rejected by the other parties. Everybody in the Netherlands is talking about it but the political side stays silent. Another example of the huge gap between the people and the Hague politics.


GMBW, is the a blogger or public figure that is accusing the politicians of ignoring the Natalee Holloway case?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dayhiker on April 05, 2008, 05:57:58 PM
IIRC, there was a small 'burial' policy on Natalee.  I believe KJ investigated the family finances at one point in time.



In Holland most parents have "burial" policies on their children. So what is Renee Gielens problem? ::MonkeyWink::



Geilen is hired to put up smokescreens. Is she so stupid think the Aruban government hasn't looked into this 2 1/2 years ago? They would have loved to have been able to pin Natalee's disappearance on an insurance scam just like they did Max DeVries. Only problem is it didn't fly, they couldn't prove it because no such scam ever existed.

Gelien must be dumb as dirt to think this has never been investigated.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Kat_Gram on April 05, 2008, 06:03:20 PM
Hello, Just doing a post 'n run. Let you all know I am still here.
I do read every day. Like to see where the lawsuit is going to go and what the scope of it is for questions being answered. Go Beth Go. 
'Bye, I have to run


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: caesu on April 05, 2008, 06:05:06 PM

I've translated the quote with a reference to the case:

Deze week vroeg mijn fractiegenoot Raymond de Roon om een spoeddebat naar aanleiding van de opzienbarende ontwikkelingen rond de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway. Het verzoek werd door de andere partijen afgewezen. Heel Nederland praat erover, maar de Tweede Kamer zwijgt. Weer een schoolvoorbeeld van de enorme kloof tussen de burgers en de Haagse politiek.

This week my colleage Raymond Boon requested an urgent (not the right translation...it's a kind of debat that isn't scheduled) debat because of the dramatic developments surrounding the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The request was rejected by the other parties. Everybody in the Netherlands is talking about it but the political side stays silent. Another example of the huge gap between the people and the Hague politics.


GMBW, is the a blogger or public figure that is accusing the politicians of ignoring the Natalee Holloway case?

Geert Wilders wrote that.
Quote
Geert Wilders (born 6 September 1963) is a Dutch politician. He has been a member of the Dutch Parliament since 1998, first for the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy and from 2006 on the Party for Freedom, a party which he founded and of which he is the political leader.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geert_Wilders


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: caesu on April 05, 2008, 06:07:44 PM
Goodmorning!

Hereby the translation of a new blog on Patricks site....I had to do it quickly so there might be a few mistakes in it but it it's always a bit better than the google translation ;-)



The summonses of Bram Moszkowicz mother Holloway Case

I wrote him a few days ago whether he had any news for my blog, so I can tell my thousands of readers. I didn't hear anything from him, but now I understand that Mr. Bram must have been busy with the summonses. The process that Beth wants to start in civil court is now really going to begin.

Personally, I haven't recieved the subpoena yet, but I'm looking forward to it. Of course I am more than happy to help Beth. She has suffered so much.

It is still not clear what is going to happen with Joran concerning a criminal case. But this process to  demand shockdamage could already give some satisfaction. In the Netherlands the amounts are much smaller than in the United States. Eventually in the case of O.J. Simpson about $ 8.5 million was awarded. In the Netherlands those kind of amounts are unusual. It would quite something if a Dutch court would award Beth 100,000 is she wins. Perhaps in this case, for the first time, there will be a higher amount. The life of Natalees' parents have been disrupted for years already.

Under Dutch law it's not that simple with shockdamages, mainly when it concerns victims of accidents. Our highest court awarded in 2002 the right to damages for the first time. A mother got 13,000 when she got a psychological injury after seeing her dead  daughter at the crime scene.

The case of Joran is obviously something different. But this gives you one example of how low the damages always turn out. Our right is actually only the material damage compensation, such as cost of living when the person that makes the money in a household died. The death of a child, no matter how hard that may sound, is worth little in Dutch law. Usually it is not more than the funeral expenses plus a little extra. It gives us a bit of an idea. The commercialisation of grief, dispicable legal practices in a claimculture. So if the Dutch government rarely accepts schockdamages that will also have an effect in these kind of cases.

The lawyers of  Beth will probably go for the so-called onrechtmatige daad (unlawful act??? sorry don't know the translation!). This is an article in our Civil Code. It is positive for Beth that such a process means they have to testify under oath & anything can be asked and that they have no right to silence, like a criminal. Joran has frequently made use of that right to remain silent and kept his mouth shut. That's not an option anymore. His parents will be heard under oath as well. That could have a major impact. Suppose, for example, that they know a lot more about the case or that Joran is helped by his father. If his father would lie during this process and that were to come out during a possible criminal case then he has committed perjury. On perjury there is an imprisonment of six years and / or a fine of 18,500. This applies also for all the other family members who would consult perjury, including Joran course.

It is difficult to prove an unlawful act for the judge. There is a lot to it. For example, the act has to be attributed to Joran or his relatives. It must be proven that the act is due to the debt or to a cause that was created by the acts or omissions of Joran and / or his parents. It was very stupid of Joran to say on Pauw & Witteman that he was only telling me a story. Something you obviously don't do when the feelings / hurt of parents are at stake.

The Kalpoe brothers were also summoned. Although in all my conversations with Joran it seemed like they have nothing to do with the disappearance of Natalee, Beth's lawyer of course wants to know why they gave Joran a false alibi.

Joran has put himself under treatment in a psychiatric institution. He is getting therapy for people who are stuck in everyday life and suffer from behavioural and psychiatric problems. According to some people he might have done this to avoid this process. As long as Joran is treated, his lawyer would be able to say that he is not in a position to answer. Meanwhile, of course, the case can start with the questioning of other witnesses. Normally these kinds of lawsuits take longer than a year.

I will keep you well informed about this case here. Personally, I will be heard as a witness in this process on a completely voluntarily basis. 

very good informative article by Patrick!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: jackb on April 05, 2008, 06:32:40 PM
IIRC, there was a small 'burial' policy on Natalee.  I believe KJ investigated the family finances at one point in time.


   Most children are automatically addeded on even before birth.  It is an automatic thing when spouses buy insurance.  Usually ranges from 5000 to 25000 at no extra charge.
They are totally ignorant to even suggest this.   jack b

 



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 05, 2008, 06:41:50 PM
IIRC, there was a small 'burial' policy on Natalee.  I believe KJ investigated the family finances at one point in time.



Aruban police question Holloways, upset on leaks
By Jay Reeves
Associated Press Writer

<snipped>

Public criticism


Holloway's relatives have publicly criticized Aruban police for asking questions that seemed to turn the focus of the hunt for the teenager toward her family. Investigators have questioned Twitty and Dave Holloway about possible life insurance money and a trust fund established to accept donations from the public after Holloway's disappearance.  

Dompig said authorities "had to ask certain questions concerning related issues because in any investigation one should be able to exclude all possibilities."

"This is also standard procedure in (the) U.S. in any investigation," he said. "The family should not have felt this as an insult nor a witch hunt."

Despite seeking information on the family, Dompig said police "never stopped looking at our suspects being the three boys in Aruba, and there is no reason at all for us to focus on other individuals when we are speaking of suspects."

<snipped>

http://legacy.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/news/051119/aruba.shtml


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dayhiker on April 05, 2008, 07:17:26 PM
IIRC, there was a small 'burial' policy on Natalee.  I believe KJ investigated the family finances at one point in time.



Aruban police question Holloways, upset on leaks
By Jay Reeves
Associated Press Writer

<snipped>

Public criticism


Holloway's relatives have publicly criticized Aruban police for asking questions that seemed to turn the focus of the hunt for the teenager toward her family. Investigators have questioned Twitty and Dave Holloway about possible life insurance money and a trust fund established to accept donations from the public after Holloway's disappearance.  

Dompig said authorities "had to ask certain questions concerning related issues because in any investigation one should be able to exclude all possibilities."

"This is also standard procedure in (the) U.S. in any investigation," he said. "The family should not have felt this as an insult nor a witch hunt."

Despite seeking information on the family, Dompig said police "never stopped looking at our suspects being the three boys in Aruba, and there is no reason at all for us to focus on other individuals when we are speaking of suspects."

<snipped>

http://legacy.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/news/051119/aruba.shtml




So there you have it. That article is dated "SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 19, 2005". Maybe one of Geilen's friends can clue her in that the insurance scam bullshit was THOROUGHLY INVESTIGATED nearly 2 1/2 years ago.

She apparently hasn't followed the case.






Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dayhiker on April 05, 2008, 07:22:29 PM

I've translated the quote with a reference to the case:

Deze week vroeg mijn fractiegenoot Raymond de Roon om een spoeddebat naar aanleiding van de opzienbarende ontwikkelingen rond de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway. Het verzoek werd door de andere partijen afgewezen. Heel Nederland praat erover, maar de Tweede Kamer zwijgt. Weer een schoolvoorbeeld van de enorme kloof tussen de burgers en de Haagse politiek.

This week my colleage Raymond Boon requested an urgent (not the right translation...it's a kind of debat that isn't scheduled) debat because of the dramatic developments surrounding the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The request was rejected by the other parties. Everybody in the Netherlands is talking about it but the political side stays silent. Another example of the huge gap between the people and the Hague politics.


GMBW, is the a blogger or public figure that is accusing the politicians of ignoring the Natalee Holloway case?

Geert Wilders wrote that.
Quote
Geert Wilders (born 6 September 1963) is a Dutch politician. He has been a member of the Dutch Parliament since 1998, first for the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy and from 2006 on the Party for Freedom, a party which he founded and of which he is the political leader.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geert_Wilders



Thanks Caesu! So Geert wrote that. He is giving them hell isn't he? So tell me, this is probably a stupid question, what happens if the present leaders are voted out. Is that kind of like a change in political party control like happens here in the U.S. or is there a different sytem for gaining control?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 05, 2008, 07:48:20 PM
A sement of Art Wood's letter to the Attorney General of Aruba requesting that Karin Janssen and the Aruban investigation team be replaced ... elaborates on Gerold Dompig's smokescreen to divert the attention of the investigation to the family of Natalee Holloway.

Janet

+++++++++++++++

Date: November 1,2005
To: Theresa Croes Fernandez-Pedra
Attorney General Of Aruba
Havenstrat 2
Orangestad,Aruba

From Arthur F. Wood
Dave and Robin Holloway
Beth and Jug Twitty

Dear Attorney General,


<snipped>
 
Subj: Letter page 3

<snipped>

Gerald Dompig:

As Deputy Cheif of Police, Gerald Dompig, Needs to be held to a standard of professionalism that exceeds every member of his team. However he continues to shift the focus of this investigation away from the suspects who are responsible for Natalee Holloway's disappearance.

<snipped>

... On that same occasion he advised me that he was disappointed that Beth Twitty had not made her intended trip to Aruba as he had a nunber of questions for her regarding her relationship with Natalee, the monies raised b the Natalee Holloway fund and Jug Twittty's financial situation and Insurance policies for Natalee.  These questions have been asked and answered by the Holloway's and The Twitty's months ago and any attempts to shift the focus of this investigation onto Dave Holloway, Beth Twitty or their Family members is a ludicrous mismanagement of the investigation. 

<snipped>


Sincerley,
Arthur E. Wood

Signed and in agreement
Dave Holloway
Robin Holloway
Beth Twitty
Jug Twitty

copy to The Honorable Nelson Oduber, Prime Miniser of Aruba
Rudy Croes Minister of Justice Aruba
Helen Lejuez ( attorney for Beth Twitty)
Vinda DeSousa ( attorney for Dave Holloway)
The Honorable Bob Riley, Governor of Alabama
Condoleesa Rice, U.S. Secretary of State.


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=318.msg45697;topicseen#msg45697

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2612.msg350938;topicseen#msg350938



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: caesu on April 05, 2008, 07:56:10 PM

I've translated the quote with a reference to the case:

Deze week vroeg mijn fractiegenoot Raymond de Roon om een spoeddebat naar aanleiding van de opzienbarende ontwikkelingen rond de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway. Het verzoek werd door de andere partijen afgewezen. Heel Nederland praat erover, maar de Tweede Kamer zwijgt. Weer een schoolvoorbeeld van de enorme kloof tussen de burgers en de Haagse politiek.

This week my colleage Raymond Boon requested an urgent (not the right translation...it's a kind of debat that isn't scheduled) debat because of the dramatic developments surrounding the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The request was rejected by the other parties. Everybody in the Netherlands is talking about it but the political side stays silent. Another example of the huge gap between the people and the Hague politics.


GMBW, is the a blogger or public figure that is accusing the politicians of ignoring the Natalee Holloway case?

Geert Wilders wrote that.
Quote
Geert Wilders (born 6 September 1963) is a Dutch politician. He has been a member of the Dutch Parliament since 1998, first for the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy and from 2006 on the Party for Freedom, a party which he founded and of which he is the political leader.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geert_Wilders



Thanks Caesu! So Geert wrote that. He is giving them hell isn't he? So tell me, this is probably a stupid question, what happens if the present leaders are voted out. Is that kind of like a change in political party control like happens here in the U.S. or is there a different sytem for gaining control?




if the government gets voted out there will be new elections within 3 months.
in the meantime the government stays on (as a kind of lame-duck government) to handle the daily affairs, but new legislation cannot be adopted.
(only temporal emergency legislation)

main difference with USA is that there are always coalition governments.
meaning two or more parties are in the government. not a two party system like in the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_government
now the government consists of labour, christian democrats and christian union.

but due to a lot of instability and confusion, distrust and more everything is changing.
as a result of that there are many more parties now.
this started with pim fortuyn in 2001, but he got assassinated.
believe it or not, but now there even is a party for the animals - advocating animal rights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_for_the_Animals

the parliament knows that if there are elections now it will be virtually impossible to form a new government.
that's why i think the parliament is giving the goverment a free pass, and the government doesn't get voted out.
the government should have been voted out months ago. earlier governments were voted away for much less.

so the bigger political parties look at the polls, and if they don't benefit from an new election - they don't vote the government out.
as a result of this, the protest-parties like geert wilders PVV (there are a few more) are gaining even more support. because the people are getting fed up with the government more and more. left, right and centre.
and funny thing is, the more support those protest-parties get - the more difficult it will be to form a new government!

that's it in a nutshell i think. but there are for sure more factors at play.

but this cannot go on for much longer. at some point something has to snap.

first i thought the joran-corruption-aruba/antilles-scandal could do that.
then i hoped the iraq-war could do it (there were questions about the legality of the dutch participation)
but now i hope the wilders-fitna-anti-quran-film will do that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitna_%28film%29


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 05, 2008, 08:00:36 PM
This is what I gather from the Aruban papers.  Yesterday 3 family members were killed by I believe it was the son.  The family name is Lampe.  I believe one of those killed was Edvard Lampe of Top 95fm.   The family is known by all and it's a shock in Aruba:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/FamilyKilledTop95.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dayhiker on April 05, 2008, 08:15:06 PM

if the government gets voted out there will be new elections within 3 months.
in the meantime the government stays on (as a kind of lame-duck government) to handle the daily affairs, but new legislation cannot be adopted.
(only temporal emergency legislation)

main difference with USA is that there are always coalition governments.
meaning two or more parties are in the government. not a two party system like in the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_government
now the government consists of labour, christian democrats and christian union.

but due to a lot of instability and confusion, distrust and more everything is changing.
as a result of that there are many more parties now.
this started with pim fortuyn in 2001, but he got assassinated.
believe it or not, but now there even is a party for the animals - advocating animal rights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_for_the_Animals

the parliament knows that if there are elections now it will be virtually impossible to form a new government.
that's why i think the parliament is giving the goverment a free pass, and the government doesn't get voted out.
the government should have been voted out months ago. earlier governments were voted away for much less.

so the bigger political parties look at the polls, and if they don't benefit from an new election - they don't vote the government out.
as a result of this, the protest-parties like geert wilders PVV (there are a few more) are gaining even more support. because the people are getting fed up with the government more and more. left, right and centre.
and funny thing is, the more support those protest-parties get - the more difficult it will be to form a new government!

that's it in a nutshell i think. but there are for sure more factors at play.

but this cannot go on for much longer. at some point something has to snap.

first i thought the joran-corruption-aruba/antilles-scandal could do that.
then i hoped the iraq-war could do it (there were questions about the legality of the dutch participation)
but now i hope the wilders-fitna-anti-quran-film will do that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitna_%28film%29


Caesu, thank you. That is very well stated and it helps to understand the debacle they are in. It could be that all of the factors you mention (the Sloot scandal, the war and the Koran film) will combine to be enough to force change. I wish you the best on getting the necessary force you need to get a more responsive government. We suffer our own problems here with politicians from both parties paying more attention to lobbyists and contributors than they do the people that elect them. The only thing you can do is throw the bums out and replace them with new blood that will hopefully realize they work for the people and not special interests.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dayhiker on April 05, 2008, 08:17:10 PM
This is what I gather from the Aruban papers.  Yesterday 3 family members were killed by I believe it was the son.  The family name is Lampe.  I believe one of those killed was Edvard Lampe of Top 95fm.   The family is known by all and it's a shock in Aruba:



That is terrible for any family. I am sure it will be thoroughly investigated and the perpertrator brought to justice.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 05, 2008, 08:24:14 PM
This is what I gather from the Aruban papers.  Yesterday 3 family members were killed by I believe it was the son.  The family name is Lampe.  I believe one of those killed was Edvard Lampe of Top 95fm.   The family is known by all and it's a shock in Aruba:



That is terrible for any family. I am sure it will be thoroughly investigated and the perpertrator brought to justice.

According to Glenda at RU it was the 29 year old son that killed them and he has confessed to it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 05, 2008, 08:30:07 PM
LAMPE

Mother says she thinks 3 men know what happened to teen
Twitty says authorities should apply pressure
Associated Press
updated 8:05 p.m. PT, Sun., June. 12, 2005


At the Santa Ana Catholic church in the town of Noord, also outside the capital, the Rev. Rudy Lampe told about 300 parishioners to pray to give the family an oasis of peace.

Today we stand with the family of Natalee, Lampe said. This is the first time something like this has happened on our island so we are all in shock.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8169252/


Ten political leaders go up against each other in University Debate
Cooperation of Government, Judiciary and Police Discussion Important for Aruba (MEP absent)
Bon Dia Aruba
9/21/2005


<snipped>

Rudy Lampe (Red)
Says that the Holloway case was an opportunity for people to work together. The leader of Red  wants a study of the investigation process conducted.

<snipped>

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2005_09_18_archive.html


From paradise to paradox in Aruba
At first, finding a missing American girl was paramount. Then the American media settled in, and attitudes have changed.
By DAVID ADAMS
Published August 22, 2005


<snipped>

"The level of ineptness, the level of omissions of things, blatantly orchestrated errors ... just was incredible," Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, told CBS last week.

That kind of talk has exasperated many islanders.

"They are giving Aruba a very bad name," said Juan Chabaya Lampe, 85, a beloved Aruban musician, painter and writer, who composed the country's national anthem in 1954. "The American media should apologize."

<snipped>

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/08/22/Worldandnation/From_paradise_to_para.shtml


Amigoe; March 29, 2007: International investigation in Namdar-case

WILLEMSTAD/ORANJESTAD - The Aruban Parliament-member Rudy Lampe (RED) presses for an international investigation in the Namdar-case.   The investigation must include Aruba and the Neth.Antilles and also the Netherlands and the United States. 

The Namdar-case involves both Aruba and Curacao.   It appears from leaked out e-mails that the American diamond dealer and businessman Effy Namdar has offered the Aruban government party MEP one million florins in bribery.   It appears from correspondence that refers to the Tourist Minister of Curacao in May 2006, that also the Curacao commissioner Ivan Strick (Finance and Tourism, FOL) and possibly also the former Tourism-commissioner Gerrit Schotte (MPK then, MAN now, have been in contact with Namdar. 

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/04/02/amigoe-namdar-has-offered-the-aruban-government-party-mep-one-million-florins-in-bribery-hmm/



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 05, 2008, 08:36:31 PM
http://www.solodipueblo.com/

Edvard Lampe, colaborador y locutor di Top 95 Fm asesina 
Saturday, 05 April 2008 


STA. CRUZ -- Horibel tabata e scenario den e cas na Macuarima. A maltrata y a bati e 3 victimanan aki. Edvard Lampe (30) ta trahando na Top 95 Fm como operador di Noticero 95 y tambe como presentador di e programa radial Boca na Palabra. Un amigo di infancia di e director Edmond Croes. Ela lanta tur dos emisora cu Edmond Croes como tambe e corant aki Solo di Pueblo. Un persona di confianza di Edmond Croes, kende semper a duna coperacion. Su mama y su tata tambe a keda asesina. Parce cu Edvard a wordo asesina prome, despues Juan y pa ultimo Ina Lampe.  Otro testigo a bisa cu ayeratardi nan a mira Eugene, esta e ruman sospechoso, na laman cu pickup di su tata. Algo stranjo, pasobra normalmente e no mag di core e pickup aki y nunca nan ta preste auto. Edvard Lampe no a yama Top 95 ayera pa bisa cu e no ta bini traha. Edmond Croes a yame 12.45, pero telefon a ring te stop. Parce cu ya for di mainta ela wordo asesina. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: dennisintn on April 05, 2008, 09:27:20 PM

roflmao, it's totally amazing to me that supposedly intelligent people can blame natalee's family and the american media for telling the truth about their crimes. they evidently don't mind the crimes or the cover-up, or the total ineptness of their leaders.  they just blame and hate the people who recognize and expose them to the world. 
dennisintn


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dayhiker on April 05, 2008, 10:02:26 PM

roflmao, it's totally amazing to me that supposedly intelligent people can blame natalee's family and the american media for telling the truth about their crimes. they evidently don't mind the crimes or the cover-up, or the total ineptness of their leaders.  they just blame and hate the people who recognize and expose them to the world. 
dennisintn


Hope it was worth the hundreds of millions and world-wide embarrassment it has cost them.  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 05, 2008, 10:27:28 PM
Translated through google:

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_41192.php

Mother, father and son murdered in Santa Cruz
April 5, 2008, 20:12 (GMT -04:00)

     
   
Macuarima 127-c where the three bodies were found.

ORANJESTAD - In a house in the district Macuarima in Santa Cruz on Friday Aruba are three members of one family killed. That is what the police last night on the spot. These include the father, mother and son of the family Lampe: Juan (60), Aura Lampe-Geerman Edvard (57) and (30). The Public Ministry said today that the exact cause of death remains unresolved, but that the conditions in which the bodies were found suspected to involve these people by a crime their lives have been.

The OM declares that the 29-year-old EJL (presumably the son Eugene Lampe) has been arrested on suspicion of attempted arson, murder and manslaughter after he himself around ten thirty on the politiewacht Sta. Cruz had reported "with a remarkable story 'about attempted arson and three bodies in the house. The son would be addicted to drugs.

After reporting a fire in a house, at about 21.30 hours by the police the lifeless bodies of the three members of the family found. The bodies were in different places in the house have. Ambulancepersoneel checked the bodies, but noted that there is no sign of life was more. Their death was a little later that evening by doctor Esschendal officially established.

There were also traces of arson in the house and burns found on the bodies. It is assumed that the perpetrator has tried to burn the bodies. The pathologist will anatomist-hopefully this afternoon after examining the bodies to be able to give more clarity, according to the PPS.

COMMOTIE

The public disclosure of the triple murder created soon for many commotion in the neighbourhood. Especially when other members of the family came poolshoogte Lampe, feelings ran high. The police asked for understanding and "to leave the situation as it was" in the context of the trace evidence. All family and was caught at the police station, where they were assisted by Victim Support Bureau. According to bystanders the murdered father worked at Banco di Caribe, the mother and son in Total Cleaning Edvard Lampe as town crier to the FM radio station Top.

The trace evidence of the tactical and technical research to five o'clock this morning lasted. With four man is the house. Sporenonderzoek can be of great importance in this case, according to the PPS, and a good research - while sporenbeeld has not yet been disrupted - can be of decisive importance for the resolution of the case. That was also the reason that there is nobody, except the research, the house has been able to go inside. After five hours left sealed the house.

Present at the place of crime were also chief Peter de Witte, a prosecutor and Justice Minister Rudy Croes. According to White, there is a "unique situation." "Unique might be an inappropriate word, but this is certainly special for Aruba. It is also entirely on its own and independent of other developments on the island. "

On the matter 'is' at the moment a team of nine detectives from Santa Cruz, San Nicolas and Oranjestad. If necessary, this team further extended.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 05, 2008, 10:41:41 PM
This is what I gather from the Aruban papers.  Yesterday 3 family members were killed by I believe it was the son.  The family name is Lampe.  I believe one of those killed was Edvard Lampe of Top 95fm.   The family is known by all and it's a shock in Aruba:



That is terrible for any family. I am sure it will be thoroughly investigated and the perpertrator brought to justice.

According to Glenda at RU it was the 29 year old son that killed them and he has confessed to it.

I need to check my notes...but was this the radio station that started the *rumor* that Joran was in a psych hospital?...or, was it Hit 94fm...need to find my note pad...yes...I still write down all my notes on...paper...gasp!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 05, 2008, 10:50:20 PM
This is what I gather from the Aruban papers.  Yesterday 3 family members were killed by I believe it was the son.  The family name is Lampe.  I believe one of those killed was Edvard Lampe of Top 95fm.   The family is known by all and it's a shock in Aruba:



That is terrible for any family. I am sure it will be thoroughly investigated and the perpertrator brought to justice.

According to Glenda at RU it was the 29 year old son that killed them and he has confessed to it.

I need to check my notes...but was this the radio station that started the *rumor* that Joran was in a psych hospital?...or, was it Hit 94fm...need to find my note pad...yes...I still write down all my notes on...paper...gasp!

I'm pretty sure it was Top 95 that first reported Joran was in the psych hospital.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 05, 2008, 10:59:17 PM
Translated through google:

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_41192.php

Mother, father and son murdered in Santa Cruz
April 5, 2008, 20:12 (GMT -04:00)

     
   
Macuarima 127-c where the three bodies were found.

ORANJESTAD - In a house in the district Macuarima in Santa Cruz on Friday Aruba are three members of one family killed. That is what the police last night on the spot. These include the father, mother and son of the family Lampe: Juan (60), Aura Lampe-Geerman Edvard (57) and (30). The Public Ministry said today that the exact cause of death remains unresolved, but that the conditions in which the bodies were found suspected to involve these people by a crime their lives have been.

The OM declares that the 29-year-old EJL (presumably the son Eugene Lampe) has been arrested on suspicion of attempted arson, murder and manslaughter after he himself around ten thirty on the politiewacht Sta. Cruz had reported "with a remarkable story 'about attempted arson and three bodies in the house. The son would be addicted to drugs.

After reporting a fire in a house, at about 21.30 hours by the police the lifeless bodies of the three members of the family found. The bodies were in different places in the house have. Ambulancepersoneel checked the bodies, but noted that there is no sign of life was more. Their death was a little later that evening by doctor Esschendal officially established.

There were also traces of arson in the house and burns found on the bodies. It is assumed that the perpetrator has tried to burn the bodies. The pathologist will anatomist-hopefully this afternoon after examining the bodies to be able to give more clarity, according to the PPS.

COMMOTIE

The public disclosure of the triple murder created soon for many commotion in the neighbourhood. Especially when other members of the family came poolshoogte Lampe, feelings ran high. The police asked for understanding and "to leave the situation as it was" in the context of the trace evidence. All family and was caught at the police station, where they were assisted by Victim Support Bureau. According to bystanders the murdered father worked at Banco di Caribe, the mother and son in Total Cleaning Edvard Lampe as town crier to the FM radio station Top.

The trace evidence of the tactical and technical research to five o'clock this morning lasted. With four man is the house. Sporenonderzoek can be of great importance in this case, according to the PPS, and a good research - while sporenbeeld has not yet been disrupted - can be of decisive importance for the resolution of the case. That was also the reason that there is nobody, except the research, the house has been able to go inside. After five hours left sealed the house.

Present at the place of crime were also chief Peter de Witte, a prosecutor and Justice Minister Rudy Croes. According to White, there is a "unique situation." "Unique might be an inappropriate word, but this is certainly special for Aruba. It is also entirely on its own and independent of other developments on the island. "

On the matter 'is' at the moment a team of nine detectives from Santa Cruz, San Nicolas and Oranjestad. If necessary, this team further extended.

Thank you Klaas.

I wonder if the father who was killed was related to the composer of Aruba's national anthem.

Maybe Juan is a common name in Aruba.

Janet

+++++++++++++++++++

From paradise to paradox in Aruba
At first, finding a missing American girl was paramount. Then the American media settled in, and attitudes have changed.
By DAVID ADAMS
Published August 22, 2005


"The level of ineptness, the level of omissions of things, blatantly orchestrated errors ... just was incredible," Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, told CBS last week.

That kind of talk has exasperated many islanders.

"They are giving Aruba a very bad name," said Juan Chabaya Lampe, 85, a beloved Aruban musician, painter and writer, who composed the country's national anthem in 1954. "The American media should apologize."

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/08/22/Worldandnation/From_paradise_to_para.shtml



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 05, 2008, 11:00:01 PM
This is what I gather from the Aruban papers.  Yesterday 3 family members were killed by I believe it was the son.  The family name is Lampe.  I believe one of those killed was Edvard Lampe of Top 95fm.   The family is known by all and it's a shock in Aruba:



That is terrible for any family. I am sure it will be thoroughly investigated and the perpertrator brought to justice.

According to Glenda at RU it was the 29 year old son that killed them and he has confessed to it.

I need to check my notes...but was this the radio station that started the *rumor* that Joran was in a psych hospital?...or, was it Hit 94fm...need to find my note pad...yes...I still write down all my notes on...paper...gasp!

I'm pretty sure it was Top 95 that first reported Joran was in the psych hospital.

Right you are...as usual...;-)

Eugene Lampe:

http://www.solodipueblo.com/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 05, 2008, 11:14:11 PM
Old...but worth revisiting...IMHO....translated by Google...

http://www.korps-politie-suriname.com/nieuws/nieuwsbronnen%20internationaal/archief%20nieuwsbronnen%20internationaal/2007/2007-05-nieuwsbronnen-internationaal/2007-05-nieuwsbronnen%20internationaal.htm


*KLAAS*...If I busted the seams with this web addy...Please fix it for me...and sorry :-(

Strafrechtelijk onderzoek nog in volle gang "Criminal investigations are still in full swing '

Politie en vrijwilligers staan klaar voor een van de grote zoekacties naar de verdwenen tiener in juni 2005. Police and volunteers are ready for one of the major searches for the missing teenager in June 2005.
ORANJESTAD Het was gisteren precies twee jaar geleden dat de 18-jarige Amerikaanse studente Natalee Holloway verdween. ORANJESTAD - It was exactly two years ago yesterday that the 18-year old American student Natalee Holloway disappeared. Het strafrechtelijk onderzoek is nog in volle gang. The criminal investigation is still in full swing.

Het belang van het ophelderen van een waarschijnlijk gepleegd misdrijf weegt op tegen het nadeel dat een verdachte ondervindt van de onzekere uitkomst van nog te verrichten opsporingsonderzoek, aldus het Openbaar Ministerie (OM). "The importance of elucidating probably committed a crime weighs against the disadvantage that a suspect because of the uncertain outcome of further investigations to be carried out," according to the Public Prosecution Service (OM).

De hoofdverdachte in de zaak, Joran van der Sloot, zei eind april naar aanleiding van het verschijnen van zijn boek dat in mei bekend wordt of het onderzoek wordt gesloten, omdat de gebruikelijke duur bij strafzaken twee jaar is. The main accused in the case, Joran van der Sloot, said at the end of April following the publication of his book in May known whether the investigation is closed, because the usual duration in criminal two years. Het OM laat weten dat het uitgangspunt bij strafzaken in Eerste Aanleg inderdaad is dat behandeling en vonnis plaatsvinden binnen twee jaar nadat de redelijke termijn is begonnen. The OM know that the key to criminal cases in first instance indeed is that treatment and judgement take place within two years after the "reasonable time" has begun.

Die redelijke termijn begint op het moment dat een verdachte redelijkerwijze kan aannemen dat hij vervolgd zal worden. That reasonable period begins at the time a suspect can reasonably assume that he will be prosecuted. Dit is niet vastgelegd in een specifieke regel, maar het begin van de redelijke termijn kan zijn wanneer de verdachte in verzekering wordt gesteld of wanneer een gerechtelijk vooronderzoek tegen de verdachte wordt geopend. This is not defined in a specific rule, but the beginning of the period may have been reasonable when the suspect insurance is made or when a judicial investigation against the suspect opens. Beide mogelijkheden hebben zich in deze strafzaak voorgedaan, aldus het OM. "Both possibilities have arisen in these criminal proceedings," according to the PPS. Van der Sloot is op 9 juni 2005 in verzekering gesteld. Van der Sloot on June 9, 2005 in insurance.

In principe zou het onderzoek naar en de behandeling van de zaak tegen hem op deze datum moeten zijn afgerond. In principle, it would be research into and treatment of the case against him on this date must be completed. Maar volgens het OM zijn er omstandigheden waardoor de duur van strafzaken meer dan twee jaar kan bedragen, zonder dat gezegd kan worden dat die duur onredelijk lang is. But according to the PPS there are circumstances in which the duration of criminal cases more than two years amounts, "without being told that they can be expensive unreasonably long". Omstandigheden zijn de ingewikkeldheid van de zaak, de invloed van de verdachte en/of zijn raadsman op het procesverloop en de wijze waarop de zaak door de bevoegde autoriteiten is behandeld. Conditions are the complexity of the case, the influence of the suspect and / or his counsel on the procedure and the manner in which the case by the competent authorities.

VERJARING ZASTARANJE

De redelijke termijn voor het onderzoek en de afhandeling van de strafzaak begint volgens OM dus niet te lopen op de dag van het delict. The reasonable deadline for the investigation and handling of the trial begins according to OM is not to run from the date of the incident. Wel begint een dag na de datum waarop een vermoedelijk strafbaar feit is gepleegd de verjaringstermijn. However, it starts a day after the date on which a suspected criminal offence is committed, the limitation period.
Het ministerie benadrukt dat deze twee termijnen duidelijk van elkaar gescheiden moeten worden. The Ministry stressed that these two periods clearly have to be separated. Voor een levensdelict is de verjaringtermijn overigens twaalf jaar en voor moord achttien jaar. For a levensdelict the verjaringtermijn incidentally twelve years for murder and the age of eighteen. Als het in februari voorgestelde nieuwe Arubaanse Wetboek van Strafrecht wordt ingevoerd, zal moord bovendien nimmer verjaren. "If the Aruban in February proposed new penal code is introduced, it will never murder also barred."

Vanaf dat moment zal een verdachte van moord kunnen worden vervolgd, ook als de verdachte al een aantal jaren onderwerp van opsporing en vervolging is geweest., aldus het OM. From that moment, a murder suspect can be prosecuted, even if the suspect is already a number of years subject of investigation and prosecution has been. "Said the PPS. (Amigoe/foto: Mirte de Rozario.) (Amigoe / photo: Mirte de Rozario.)




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 05, 2008, 11:17:42 PM
This is what I gather from the Aruban papers.  Yesterday 3 family members were killed by I believe it was the son.  The family name is Lampe.  I believe one of those killed was Edvard Lampe of Top 95fm.   The family is known by all and it's a shock in Aruba:



That is terrible for any family. I am sure it will be thoroughly investigated and the perpertrator brought to justice.

According to Glenda at RU it was the 29 year old son that killed them and he has confessed to it.

I need to check my notes...but was this the radio station that started the *rumor* that Joran was in a psych hospital?...or, was it Hit 94fm...need to find my note pad...yes...I still write down all my notes on...paper...gasp!

I'm pretty sure it was Top 95 that first reported Joran was in the psych hospital.

Destiny ... I do not believe it was a rumor.  Other Aruban publications are now reporting that Joran is in a psych hospital.

Janet

+++++++++++++++++

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_41150.php

Through google translator:

Lawyer Moszkowicz dagvaart Joran and parents
April 3, 2008, 17:56 (GMT -04:00)


  Email this article
  Print this article
   
   ORANJESTAD / AMSTERDAM - Joran van der Sloot and his parents sued the coming days. They must appear before the court in order to be heard under oath about their role during and after the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. That message De Telegraaf today.

The summonses are part of a series injunction in the civil case that the mother of Natalee Holloway, Beth Reynolds in the Netherlands has begun. They require a substantial compensation and satisfaction for the "shockschade" that Joran van der Sloot it has carried out. She is convinced that he was involved in the disappearance of her daughter.

Beth Reynolds is assisted by Bram Moszkowicz and Roger Schmidt. It has advocatenkoppel summonses to prepare for virtually all 'stakeholders', including Patrick van der Eem, Peter R. De Vries and the brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe.

"During the questioning, the witnesses required answers to all the questions," says Moszkowicz in the article in De Telegraaf. "There is no absolute right to remain silent, as in criminal law. This will allow hearings for Justice also interesting. "

According to the reporters, Joran voluntarily under treatment of the psychiatric institution Altrecht in Den Dolder. He would stay in an open section and therapy for people who are stuck in everyday life and suffer from 'behavioural and psychiatric problems. " It has been suggested that the possible inclusion is a deliberate move to Jorans lawyer, Bert de Rooij, argued that his client may not be able to answer. Van der Sloot would under his schuilnamen again at various pokersites are identified.  

The summons for Patrick van der Eem and misdaadjournalist Peter R. De Vries wants Moszkowicz reach to see an end to the debate on the legality of the undercover operation.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2745.msg370675#msg370675

+++++++++++++++

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3705073/_Familie_Van_der_Sloot_gedagvaard__.html

Translation:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2745.msg370419#msg370419



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 05, 2008, 11:22:57 PM
This is what I gather from the Aruban papers.  Yesterday 3 family members were killed by I believe it was the son.  The family name is Lampe.  I believe one of those killed was Edvard Lampe of Top 95fm.   The family is known by all and it's a shock in Aruba:



That is terrible for any family. I am sure it will be thoroughly investigated and the perpertrator brought to justice.

According to Glenda at RU it was the 29 year old son that killed them and he has confessed to it.

I need to check my notes...but was this the radio station that started the *rumor* that Joran was in a psych hospital?...or, was it Hit 94fm...need to find my note pad...yes...I still write down all my notes on...paper...gasp!

I'm pretty sure it was Top 95 that first reported Joran was in the psych hospital.

Destiny ... I do not believe it was a rumor.  Other Aruban publications are now reporting that Joran is in a psych hospital.

Janet

+++++++++++++++++

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_41150.php

Through google translator:

Lawyer Moszkowicz dagvaart Joran and parents
April 3, 2008, 17:56 (GMT -04:00)


  Email this article
  Print this article
   
   ORANJESTAD / AMSTERDAM - Joran van der Sloot and his parents sued the coming days. They must appear before the court in order to be heard under oath about their role during and after the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. That message De Telegraaf today.

The summonses are part of a series injunction in the civil case that the mother of Natalee Holloway, Beth Reynolds in the Netherlands has begun. They require a substantial compensation and satisfaction for the "shockschade" that Joran van der Sloot it has carried out. She is convinced that he was involved in the disappearance of her daughter.

Beth Reynolds is assisted by Bram Moszkowicz and Roger Schmidt. It has advocatenkoppel summonses to prepare for virtually all 'stakeholders', including Patrick van der Eem, Peter R. De Vries and the brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe.

"During the questioning, the witnesses required answers to all the questions," says Moszkowicz in the article in De Telegraaf. "There is no absolute right to remain silent, as in criminal law. This will allow hearings for Justice also interesting. "

According to the reporters, Joran voluntarily under treatment of the psychiatric institution Altrecht in Den Dolder. He would stay in an open section and therapy for people who are stuck in everyday life and suffer from 'behavioural and psychiatric problems. " It has been suggested that the possible inclusion is a deliberate move to Jorans lawyer, Bert de Rooij, argued that his client may not be able to answer. Van der Sloot would under his schuilnamen again at various pokersites are identified.  

The summons for Patrick van der Eem and misdaadjournalist Peter R. De Vries wants Moszkowicz reach to see an end to the debate on the legality of the undercover operation.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2745.msg370675#msg370675

+++++++++++++++

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3705073/_Familie_Van_der_Sloot_gedagvaard__.html

Translation:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2745.msg370419#msg370419



This was confirmed to me by Diario days ago...Basterd in hiding!!!

Thanks Janet....I love board games too ;-)   Have you ever played Othello...the game with black and white stones?...big fun!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 05, 2008, 11:27:28 PM
Old...but worth revisiting...IMHO....translated by Google...

http://www.korps-politie-suriname.com/nieuws/nieuwsbronnen%20internationaal/archief%20nieuwsbronnen%20internationaal/2007/2007-05-nieuwsbronnen-internationaal/2007-05-nieuwsbronnen%20internationaal.htm


*KLAAS*...If I busted the seams with this web addy...Please fix it for me...and sorry :-(

Strafrechtelijk onderzoek nog in volle gang "Criminal investigations are still in full swing '

Politie en vrijwilligers staan klaar voor een van de grote zoekacties naar de verdwenen tiener in juni 2005. Police and volunteers are ready for one of the major searches for the missing teenager in June 2005.
ORANJESTAD Het was gisteren precies twee jaar geleden dat de 18-jarige Amerikaanse studente Natalee Holloway verdween. ORANJESTAD - It was exactly two years ago yesterday that the 18-year old American student Natalee Holloway disappeared. Het strafrechtelijk onderzoek is nog in volle gang. The criminal investigation is still in full swing.

Het belang van het ophelderen van een waarschijnlijk gepleegd misdrijf weegt op tegen het nadeel dat een verdachte ondervindt van de onzekere uitkomst van nog te verrichten opsporingsonderzoek, aldus het Openbaar Ministerie (OM). "The importance of elucidating probably committed a crime weighs against the disadvantage that a suspect because of the uncertain outcome of further investigations to be carried out," according to the Public Prosecution Service (OM).

De hoofdverdachte in de zaak, Joran van der Sloot, zei eind april naar aanleiding van het verschijnen van zijn boek dat in mei bekend wordt of het onderzoek wordt gesloten, omdat de gebruikelijke duur bij strafzaken twee jaar is. The main accused in the case, Joran van der Sloot, said at the end of April following the publication of his book in May known whether the investigation is closed, because the usual duration in criminal two years. Het OM laat weten dat het uitgangspunt bij strafzaken in Eerste Aanleg inderdaad is dat behandeling en vonnis plaatsvinden binnen twee jaar nadat de redelijke termijn is begonnen. The OM know that the key to criminal cases in first instance indeed is that treatment and judgement take place within two years after the "reasonable time" has begun.

Die redelijke termijn begint op het moment dat een verdachte redelijkerwijze kan aannemen dat hij vervolgd zal worden. That reasonable period begins at the time a suspect can reasonably assume that he will be prosecuted. Dit is niet vastgelegd in een specifieke regel, maar het begin van de redelijke termijn kan zijn wanneer de verdachte in verzekering wordt gesteld of wanneer een gerechtelijk vooronderzoek tegen de verdachte wordt geopend. This is not defined in a specific rule, but the beginning of the period may have been reasonable when the suspect insurance is made or when a judicial investigation against the suspect opens. Beide mogelijkheden hebben zich in deze strafzaak voorgedaan, aldus het OM. "Both possibilities have arisen in these criminal proceedings," according to the PPS. Van der Sloot is op 9 juni 2005 in verzekering gesteld. Van der Sloot on June 9, 2005 in insurance.

In principe zou het onderzoek naar en de behandeling van de zaak tegen hem op deze datum moeten zijn afgerond. In principle, it would be research into and treatment of the case against him on this date must be completed. Maar volgens het OM zijn er omstandigheden waardoor de duur van strafzaken meer dan twee jaar kan bedragen, zonder dat gezegd kan worden dat die duur onredelijk lang is. But according to the PPS there are circumstances in which the duration of criminal cases more than two years amounts, "without being told that they can be expensive unreasonably long". Omstandigheden zijn de ingewikkeldheid van de zaak, de invloed van de verdachte en/of zijn raadsman op het procesverloop en de wijze waarop de zaak door de bevoegde autoriteiten is behandeld. Conditions are the complexity of the case, the influence of the suspect and / or his counsel on the procedure and the manner in which the case by the competent authorities.

VERJARING ZASTARANJE

De redelijke termijn voor het onderzoek en de afhandeling van de strafzaak begint volgens OM dus niet te lopen op de dag van het delict. The reasonable deadline for the investigation and handling of the trial begins according to OM is not to run from the date of the incident. Wel begint een dag na de datum waarop een vermoedelijk strafbaar feit is gepleegd de verjaringstermijn. However, it starts a day after the date on which a suspected criminal offence is committed, the limitation period.
Het ministerie benadrukt dat deze twee termijnen duidelijk van elkaar gescheiden moeten worden. The Ministry stressed that these two periods clearly have to be separated. Voor een levensdelict is de verjaringtermijn overigens twaalf jaar en voor moord achttien jaar. For a levensdelict the verjaringtermijn incidentally twelve years for murder and the age of eighteen. Als het in februari voorgestelde nieuwe Arubaanse Wetboek van Strafrecht wordt ingevoerd, zal moord bovendien nimmer verjaren. "If the Aruban in February proposed new penal code is introduced, it will never murder also barred."

Vanaf dat moment zal een verdachte van moord kunnen worden vervolgd, ook als de verdachte al een aantal jaren onderwerp van opsporing en vervolging is geweest., aldus het OM. From that moment, a murder suspect can be prosecuted, even if the suspect is already a number of years subject of investigation and prosecution has been. "Said the PPS. (Amigoe/foto: Mirte de Rozario.) (Amigoe / photo: Mirte de Rozario.)




Oh POOP!   the google translation didn't copy to my post...Mea Culpa....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 05, 2008, 11:34:22 PM

This was confirmed to me by Diario days ago...Basterd in hiding!!!

Thanks Janet....I love board games too ;-)   Have you ever played Othello...the game with black and white stones?...big fun!


 ::MonkeyShocked::

Destiny ... I received Othello at Christmas from a friend but ... I have yet to open the box.

I hate learning a new game.  It is such a frustrating experience for me.  I am just  fine once I catch on but ... I am so slow at learning.
 
However ... maybe next week I will open Othello and ... have a boo.  Thanks for the reminder.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 05, 2008, 11:41:05 PM
Good Night Monkeys.

Grandson (4) and Grandaughter (6) are suppose to be spending the weekend for Mama and Papa.  However ... their Uncle and Auntie (youngest son and wife) took them tobogganing up the local mountain today and ... they just arrived back.

After the kids are tucked tucked in and ... a game of Scrabble is where it is at for the four of us.

Good Night Monkeys.

Janet
8:40 PM



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 05, 2008, 11:45:11 PM

This was confirmed to me by Diario days ago...Basterd in hiding!!!

Thanks Janet....I love board games too ;-)   Have you ever played Othello...the game with black and white stones?...big fun!


 ::MonkeyShocked::

Destiny ... I received Othello at Christmas from a friend but ... I have yet to open the box.

I hate learning a new game.  It is such a frustrating experience for me.  I am just  fine once I catch on but ... I am so slow at learning.
 
However ... maybe next week I will open Othello and ... have a boo.  Thanks for the reminder.

Janet

Sweet Janet...considering what you do here...I think you just might find Othello...addicting...or not...Have fun, and let me know what you think of it!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 05, 2008, 11:53:13 PM
Seems like *one crappy island* doesn't turn in *certain* statistics...like HIV/AIDS....

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:Y2XTwAKmWVAJ:www.prb.org/Countries/Aruba.aspx+HIV+statistics+aruba&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

Francais
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Rate of Natural Increase (Percent)     0.70    
Projected Population, 2025     110,000    
Projected Population, 2050     110,000    
Projected Pop. Change 2007-2050 (%)     11    
Infant Deaths per 1,000 Live Births     2.60    
Lifetime Births per Woman (TFR)     2.000    
Population Age <15 (%)     19.90    
Population Age 65+ (%)     11.90    
Life Expectancy at Birth, Total     79.10    
Life Expectancy at Birth, Male     75.80    
Life Expectancy at Birth, Female     82.70    
Urban Population (%)     46.60    
HIV/AIDS Among Adult Population, Ages 15-49, 2005/2006 (%)     -    
Underweight Children Age <5 (%)     -    
GNI PPP Per Capita, 2005 (US$)     -    
Density (population/sq. km.)     550    
Family Planning
Contraceptive Use Among Married Women, All Methods, Ages 15-49 (%)     -    
Contraceptive Use Among Married Women, Modern Methods, Ages 15-49 (%)     -    
Health & Environment Indicators
CO2 Emissions per Capita, 2002 (metric tons)     0    
Natural Habitat Remaining (%)     0.00    

For complete definitions of demographic terms, see our glossary.

Sources for statistics: 2007 World Population Data Sheet, PRB; Women of Our World 2005, PRB; The Wealth Gap in Health, PRB; Making the Link: Population, Health, Environment, PRB; and Family Planning Worldwide 2002 Data Sheet, PRB; World's Youth 2006 , PRB.


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Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 06, 2008, 12:23:29 AM
Hey Destiny...I see you are up late tonight.  Looking for people to call?

Did you get those cookies baked?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: SS on April 06, 2008, 12:28:09 AM
Hey Destiny...I see you are up late tonight.  Looking for people to call?

Did you get those cookies baked?




LaLa - There's a present for you on the Shango thread.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 06, 2008, 12:40:20 AM
Hey Destiny...I see you are up late tonight.  Looking for people to call?

Did you get those cookies baked?




LaLa - There's a present for you on the Shango thread.

uh oh!! ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 06, 2008, 12:56:15 AM
Hey Destiny...I see you are up late tonight.  Looking for people to call?

Did you get those cookies baked?

In the oven now...chokke chips added per your suggestion ;-)  ::MonkeyDance::

Just give me a number...and what you want asked  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Katherine on April 06, 2008, 01:01:04 AM

I've translated the quote with a reference to the case:

Deze week vroeg mijn fractiegenoot Raymond de Roon om een spoeddebat naar aanleiding van de opzienbarende ontwikkelingen rond de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway. Het verzoek werd door de andere partijen afgewezen. Heel Nederland praat erover, maar de Tweede Kamer zwijgt. Weer een schoolvoorbeeld van de enorme kloof tussen de burgers en de Haagse politiek.

This week my colleage Raymond Boon requested an urgent (not the right translation...it's a kind of debat that isn't scheduled) debat because of the dramatic developments surrounding the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The request was rejected by the other parties. Everybody in the Netherlands is talking about it but the political side stays silent. Another example of the huge gap between the people and the Hague politics.


GMBW, is the a blogger or public figure that is accusing the politicians of ignoring the Natalee Holloway case?

Geert Wilders wrote that.
Quote
Geert Wilders (born 6 September 1963) is a Dutch politician. He has been a member of the Dutch Parliament since 1998, first for the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy and from 2006 on the Party for Freedom, a party which he founded and of which he is the political leader.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geert_Wilders



Thanks Caesu! So Geert wrote that. He is giving them hell isn't he? So tell me, this is probably a stupid question, what happens if the present leaders are voted out. Is that kind of like a change in political party control like happens here in the U.S. or is there a different sytem for gaining control?




if the government gets voted out there will be new elections within 3 months.
in the meantime the government stays on (as a kind of lame-duck government) to handle the daily affairs, but new legislation cannot be adopted.
(only temporal emergency legislation)

main difference with USA is that there are always coalition governments.
meaning two or more parties are in the government. not a two party system like in the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_government
now the government consists of labour, christian democrats and christian union.

but due to a lot of instability and confusion, distrust and more everything is changing.
as a result of that there are many more parties now.
this started with pim fortuyn in 2001, but he got assassinated.
believe it or not, but now there even is a party for the animals - advocating animal rights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_for_the_Animals

the parliament knows that if there are elections now it will be virtually impossible to form a new government.
that's why i think the parliament is giving the goverment a free pass, and the government doesn't get voted out.
the government should have been voted out months ago. earlier governments were voted away for much less.

so the bigger political parties look at the polls, and if they don't benefit from an new election - they don't vote the government out.
as a result of this, the protest-parties like geert wilders PVV (there are a few more) are gaining even more support. because the people are getting fed up with the government more and more. left, right and centre.
and funny thing is, the more support those protest-parties get - the more difficult it will be to form a new government!

that's it in a nutshell i think. but there are for sure more factors at play.

but this cannot go on for much longer. at some point something has to snap.

first i thought the joran-corruption-aruba/antilles-scandal could do that.
then i hoped the iraq-war could do it (there were questions about the legality of the dutch participation)
but now i hope the wilders-fitna-anti-quran-film will do that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitna_%28film%29


Caesu,

I always love your posts about the politics and govt there!  And I thought our parties were over the top!  I can't imagine what it would be like if we added religion into the mix as major party affiliations.  We can barely get through an election with only two secular ones!  But, trust me, if it wasn't so outrageously expensive to run for office here, we'd have an animal right's party, too.  I saw the financial numbers yesterday:  This presidential race is projected to cost over $1 billion dollars!  Right now it's estimated that the 3 major candidates are spending an average of $2 million each per week. Unbelievable. I guess it's a good thing that you couldn't pay most of us enough to take the job!  We all talk like we could do a better job than they do, but truth is, I don't think there is a more difficult job in this country.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 06, 2008, 01:01:16 AM
Hey Destiny...I see you are up late tonight.  Looking for people to call?

Did you get those cookies baked?




LaLa - There's a present for you on the Shango thread.

uh oh!! ::MonkeyShocked::

Ooooooooooh...dontcha just lurve *presents*...gotta go see whatcha got Lalas'...wooo hooooo!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 06, 2008, 01:17:06 AM
Hey Destiny...I see you are up late tonight.  Looking for people to call?

Did you get those cookies baked?




LaLa - There's a present for you on the Shango thread.

uh oh!! ::MonkeyShocked::

Ooooooooooh...dontcha just lurve *presents*...gotta go see whatcha got Lalas'...wooo hooooo!

WOW!...Shango thread is...rockin' an rollin'.....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: katrien on April 06, 2008, 04:21:01 AM
http://misdaad.aktueel.nu/doorbraak_in_zaak_holloway.html

Quote
MISDAAD.AKTUEEL.NU
 
Nieuws vanaf Aruba. Ik doel daarbij niet op het gezinsdrama in Santa Cruz waarbij een drugsverslaafde zijn ouders en broer ombracht, maar op de zaak Natalee Holloway.
Alle hoop van het team dat de bekentenissen van Joran van der Sloot onderzoekt is gevestigd op een spoortje dat leidt naar een man, die wegens een drugsdelict vastzit in de Verenigde Staten. De politie heeft aanwijzingen dat hij wellicht de persoon is die het bootje heeft gevaren waarmee Natalee naar open zee is gebracht. De komende tijd moet duidelijk worden of het een heet spoor is of een dwaalspoor. Maar uit het feit dat het gaat om een zogeheten embargo-onderzoek (onderzoek dat nauwlettend wordt afgeschermd, ook voor collega-politiemensen) kan worden opgemaakt dat de informatie behoorlijk serieus wordt genomen. Zou de Daury dan toch bestaan?

A rough translation:

Quote
Breakthrough in Holloway Case?

News from Aruba. I dont mean the family tragedy in Santa Crux were a drugs addict killed his parents and brother, but I mean the Holloway case.
The team of detectives, investigating the confessions of Joran v.d. Sloot, is tracing a man being lockup in the USA for a drugs crime. The police have indications he might be the one driving the little boat taking Natalee to the open sea. In the coming days it has to become clear weather this is a hot track or a wrong track.
But from the fact it the track is treated as a so called embargo-investigation (an investigation carefully separated, even for colleague police-officers), the conclusion could be taken that this information is rather serious.
Is it possible that after all this Daury really exists?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: texasmom on April 06, 2008, 04:36:04 AM
http://misdaad.aktueel.nu/doorbraak_in_zaak_holloway.html

Quote
MISDAAD.AKTUEEL.NU
 
Nieuws vanaf Aruba. Ik doel daarbij niet op het gezinsdrama in Santa Cruz waarbij een drugsverslaafde zijn ouders en broer ombracht, maar op de zaak Natalee Holloway.
Alle hoop van het team dat de bekentenissen van Joran van der Sloot onderzoekt is gevestigd op een spoortje dat leidt naar een man, die wegens een drugsdelict vastzit in de Verenigde Staten. De politie heeft aanwijzingen dat hij wellicht de persoon is die het bootje heeft gevaren waarmee Natalee naar open zee is gebracht. De komende tijd moet duidelijk worden of het een heet spoor is of een dwaalspoor. Maar uit het feit dat het gaat om een zogeheten embargo-onderzoek (onderzoek dat nauwlettend wordt afgeschermd, ook voor collega-politiemensen) kan worden opgemaakt dat de informatie behoorlijk serieus wordt genomen. Zou de Daury dan toch bestaan?

A rough translation:

Quote
Breakthrough in Holloway Case?

News from Aruba. I dont mean the family tragedy in Santa Crux were a drugs addict killed his parents and brother, but I mean the Holloway case.
The team of detectives, investigating the confessions of Joran v.d. Sloot, is tracing a man being lockup in the USA for a drugs crime. The police have indications he might be the one driving the little boat taking Natalee to the open sea. In the coming days it has to become clear weather this is a hot track or a wrong track.
But from the fact it the track is treated as a so called embargo-investigation (an investigation carefully separated, even for colleague police-officers), the conclusion could be taken that this information is rather serious.
Is it possible that after all this Daury really exists?


 ::MonkeyCool:: Thanks Katrien!   We had a hint about this over in the Shango/Simian thread earlier and were eagerly awaiting news about it!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: GBMW on April 06, 2008, 04:41:05 AM
http://misdaad.aktueel.nu/doorbraak_in_zaak_holloway.html

Quote
MISDAAD.AKTUEEL.NU
 
Nieuws vanaf Aruba. Ik doel daarbij niet op het gezinsdrama in Santa Cruz waarbij een drugsverslaafde zijn ouders en broer ombracht, maar op de zaak Natalee Holloway.
Alle hoop van het team dat de bekentenissen van Joran van der Sloot onderzoekt is gevestigd op een spoortje dat leidt naar een man, die wegens een drugsdelict vastzit in de Verenigde Staten. De politie heeft aanwijzingen dat hij wellicht de persoon is die het bootje heeft gevaren waarmee Natalee naar open zee is gebracht. De komende tijd moet duidelijk worden of het een heet spoor is of een dwaalspoor. Maar uit het feit dat het gaat om een zogeheten embargo-onderzoek (onderzoek dat nauwlettend wordt afgeschermd, ook voor collega-politiemensen) kan worden opgemaakt dat de informatie behoorlijk serieus wordt genomen. Zou de Daury dan toch bestaan?

A rough translation:

Quote
Breakthrough in Holloway Case?

News from Aruba. I dont mean the family tragedy in Santa Crux were a drugs addict killed his parents and brother, but I mean the Holloway case.
The team of detectives, investigating the confessions of Joran v.d. Sloot, is tracing a man being lockup in the USA for a drugs crime. The police have indications he might be the one driving the little boat taking Natalee to the open sea. In the coming days it has to become clear weather this is a hot track or a wrong track.
But from the fact it the track is treated as a so called embargo-investigation (an investigation carefully separated, even for colleague police-officers), the conclusion could be taken that this information is rather serious.
Is it possible that after all this Daury really exists?


Thanks Katrien!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: johan555 on April 06, 2008, 05:59:22 AM
were can i find that Texas Mom ?

  We had a hint about this over in the Shango/Simian thread earlier and were eagerly awaiting news about it!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: MumInOhio on April 06, 2008, 07:10:33 AM
were can i find that Texas Mom ?

  We had a hint about this over in the Shango/Simian thread earlier and were eagerly awaiting news about it!

Caps post here towards the bottom, Johan555


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.1240



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Buckeye on April 06, 2008, 07:51:44 AM
http://misdaad.aktueel.nu/doorbraak_in_zaak_holloway.html

Quote
MISDAAD.AKTUEEL.NU
 
Nieuws vanaf Aruba. Ik doel daarbij niet op het gezinsdrama in Santa Cruz waarbij een drugsverslaafde zijn ouders en broer ombracht, maar op de zaak Natalee Holloway.
Alle hoop van het team dat de bekentenissen van Joran van der Sloot onderzoekt is gevestigd op een spoortje dat leidt naar een man, die wegens een drugsdelict vastzit in de Verenigde Staten. De politie heeft aanwijzingen dat hij wellicht de persoon is die het bootje heeft gevaren waarmee Natalee naar open zee is gebracht. De komende tijd moet duidelijk worden of het een heet spoor is of een dwaalspoor. Maar uit het feit dat het gaat om een zogeheten embargo-onderzoek (onderzoek dat nauwlettend wordt afgeschermd, ook voor collega-politiemensen) kan worden opgemaakt dat de informatie behoorlijk serieus wordt genomen. Zou de Daury dan toch bestaan?

A rough translation:

Quote
Breakthrough in Holloway Case?

News from Aruba. I dont mean the family tragedy in Santa Crux were a drugs addict killed his parents and brother, but I mean the Holloway case.
The team of detectives, investigating the confessions of Joran v.d. Sloot, is tracing a man being lockup in the USA for a drugs crime. The police have indications he might be the one driving the little boat taking Natalee to the open sea. In the coming days it has to become clear weather this is a hot track or a wrong track.
But from the fact it the track is treated as a so called embargo-investigation (an investigation carefully separated, even for colleague police-officers), the conclusion could be taken that this information is rather serious.
Is it possible that after all this Daury really exists?


 ::MonkeyShocked:: ::MonkeyShocked::

Are Gottenbos's still in Georgia??  Koen? Sander?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Buckeye on April 06, 2008, 08:03:46 AM
Haven't translated yet:

http://misdaadjournalist.web-log.nl/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Buckeye on April 06, 2008, 08:07:34 AM
Haven't translated yet:

http://misdaadjournalist.web-log.nl/

Just references the above post. Nothing new.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 06, 2008, 08:15:02 AM
Haven't translated yet:

http://misdaadjournalist.web-log.nl/

The only part pertaining to Natalee is this part and it's just pointing towards the article that Katrien posted:

Quote
Zondag 6 april: nieuws over Natalee & Victor & het A1-drama
 

Update 9.30 uur:

Henk Strootman meldt op zijn weblog dat er mogelijk een doorbraakje is bij het zoeken naar de helper van Joran: de politie schijnt 'Daury' op het spoor te zijn. Staat hier

The sketch of the man doesn't have anything to do with the NH case  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Buckeye on April 06, 2008, 08:18:07 AM
Haven't translated yet:

http://misdaadjournalist.web-log.nl/

The only part pertaining to Natalee is this part and it's just pointing towards the article that Katrien posted:

Quote
Zondag 6 april: nieuws over Natalee & Victor & het A1-drama
 

Update 9.30 uur:

Henk Strootman meldt op zijn weblog dat er mogelijk een doorbraakje is bij het zoeken naar de helper van Joran: de politie schijnt 'Daury' op het spoor te zijn. Staat hier

The sketch of the man doesn't have anything to do with the NH case  ::MonkeyWink::

I tried to say that in the next post.  Maybe you could delete it??  Good morning....haven't noticed MF up yet   ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 06, 2008, 08:23:43 AM
Haven't translated yet:

http://misdaadjournalist.web-log.nl/

The only part pertaining to Natalee is this part and it's just pointing towards the article that Katrien posted:

Quote
Zondag 6 april: nieuws over Natalee & Victor & het A1-drama
 

Update 9.30 uur:

Henk Strootman meldt op zijn weblog dat er mogelijk een doorbraakje is bij het zoeken naar de helper van Joran: de politie schijnt 'Daury' op het spoor te zijn. Staat hier

The sketch of the man doesn't have anything to do with the NH case  ::MonkeyWink::

I tried to say that in the next post.  Maybe you could delete it??  Good morning....haven't noticed MF up yet   ::MonkeyHaHa::

I'm not awake enough to delete posts, LOL  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: sharon on April 06, 2008, 08:30:21 AM

I'm not awake enough to delete posts, LOL  ::MonkeyHaHa::


 ::MonkeyShocked:: ::MonkeyShocked::

klaas

This is really early for you

(thanks!! )


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 06, 2008, 08:33:04 AM

I'm not awake enough to delete posts, LOL  ::MonkeyHaHa::


 ::MonkeyShocked:: ::MonkeyShocked::

klaas

This is really early for you

(thanks!! )

Way early, lol  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: GBMW on April 06, 2008, 08:37:34 AM
Goodmorning!

Patrick put a translation of his latest blog on his website.....

Civil suit against Joran starts

Hollands most famous lawyer Bram Moszkowicz has been preparing the civil suit agsinst Joran van der Sloot and possibly his parents. The lawyer works for Beth. Some websites reported on Friday that subpoenas were sent to Joran, his parents, the crime reporter Peter R. de Vries and myself. Also the Kalpoe brothers have been called to testify, because the lawyer wants to figure out why they gave Joran a false alibi.

I have not received my subpoena yet, but expect to pick the doc from the doormat on Monday or Tuesday. Of course I will be there for Beth, who has suffered hard and long under this case.

Under Dutch law judges are traditionally very strict with damages for pain and suffering to relatives of victims of crimes and accidents . The lawmaker has always been afraid for a culture of ambulance chasers and the commercialization of grief. While in the civil suit against O.J. Simpson damages like $ 8.5 million were ruled, it would be out of the ordinary if a Dutch judge awards more than 100.000 ($ 160.000). Perhaps this case will set a new trend. The life of Natalees parents has been derailed for years already.

Usually judges tend to focus only on material damages, like lost wages of breadwinners and funeral expenses. Especially the value of a child in this kind of legal culture in terms of dollars is low. In 2002 the Supreme Court of Holland agreed to immaterial damages in the first case ever, to a mother who had to witness the dead body of her daughter under the wheels of a truck, for a pittance of 13.000. Of course the circumstances in this case are totally different, but it sets a trend.

The good news of this civil suit is that Joran and his parents will not have the right to remain silent anymore or can rely on what in the US is known as the Fifth Amendment. They have to answer the questions of the lawyer and the judge and will be heard under oath. This can have nasty consequences for them. Assume for instance that Jorans father knows far more than he has told until now or even helped him. When he would lie during this civil suit and this surfaces in a possible later criminal suit (even when he tells the truth there), perjury can be established. Perjury carries a maximum penalty in Holland of 6 years and/or a fine of 18,500. The same sentence can be handed out to all other family members who testify under oath and lie, including Joran.

Some people therefore speculate that this might be the reason that Joran has been admitted in a psychiatric institute. There he receives therapy for people who hit rock bottom in their lives and need treatment for behavioral and psychiatric problems. As long as Joran is under the care of these psychiatrists, his lawyer can claim that he is able to answers questions. Meanwhile the civil suit can of course just start with hearing the other witnesses. Usually these civil suits last for more than one year.

I will keep you informed in my blog about all the developments in this case. Of course I will go myself, completely voluntarily, to be heard as a witness in this court case.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: sharon on April 06, 2008, 08:46:59 AM
Thanks GBWM!

I appreciate waking up to latest NH news fromthe NL. This is where the 'action' will be for awhile.

 ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: sharon on April 06, 2008, 08:51:09 AM
Also meant to add -- IMO, this was never and will never be about money.

It's all about 'discovery'

AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT....IT DOES

Justice for Natalee


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: GBMW on April 06, 2008, 09:02:07 AM
Also meant to add -- IMO, this was never and will never be about money.

It's all about 'discovery'

AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT....IT DOES

Justice for Natalee

I agree...but what kind of a person would think that under these circumstances? And really...how much money does he have anyway? But then again....I heard he's a good pokerplayer ;-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dayhiker on April 06, 2008, 09:10:26 AM


This was confirmed to me by Diario days ago...Basterd in hiding!!!

Thanks Janet....I love board games too ;-)   Have you ever played Othello...the game with black and white stones?...big fun!


You bet Destiny! His lawyer Bert as much as tells us the real reason he is in there. He doesn't want to testify! Those Van der Sloots sure know how to work the system don't they?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 06, 2008, 09:17:42 AM


This was confirmed to me by Diario days ago...Basterd in hiding!!!

Thanks Janet....I love board games too ;-)   Have you ever played Othello...the game with black and white stones?...big fun!


You bet Destiny! His lawyer Bert as much as tells us the real reason he is in there. He doesn't want to testify! Those Van der Sloots sure know how to work the system don't they?

Good Morning Dayhiker and All...
while the jackass and his father play games with the legal system, the father continues to possess a law license and practice criminal law..

repugnant!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dayhiker on April 06, 2008, 09:21:49 AM
Also meant to add -- IMO, this was never and will never be about money.

It's all about 'discovery'

AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT....IT DOES

Justice for Natalee


I agree Sharon. It ain't about the money, it's about the Discovery. Just a short list I'd like to see:

1- Joran's statements through June 9th. (If they're not missing.)

1B- If they are missing I'd like to see Jannsen, Straten and Jacobs subpoened and asked why?

1C- Follow-up on ALE questioning Beth and Dave about seizures.

2- Kalpoes statements versus Joran's statements on the security guards. Jannsen said Joran's was irrevelent.

3- All cell phone and internet correspondence of Joran, Paulus, Kalpoes, Croes, Lorenzo and Gottenbos.

4- All communications records between Paulus and Van der Straten plus the judges.

5- Any bank transactions by Paulus immediately following the disappearance.

6- All police records pertaining to the arrest of the guards.

7- Testimony from Jannsen and Van der Straten pertaining to the arrest of the guards and non-arrest of the perps.

8- All of Joran's legal bills and who has paid for them.


FEEL FREE TO ADD!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dayhiker on April 06, 2008, 09:23:56 AM


This was confirmed to me by Diario days ago...Basterd in hiding!!!

Thanks Janet....I love board games too ;-)   Have you ever played Othello...the game with black and white stones?...big fun!


You bet Destiny! His lawyer Bert as much as tells us the real reason he is in there. He doesn't want to testify! Those Van der Sloots sure know how to work the system don't they?

Good Morning Dayhiker and All...
while the jackass and his father play games with the legal system, the father continues to possess a law license and practice criminal law..

repugnant!!!


Good morning Bruddah! And Paulus is still working for the Aruban government on committees!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dayhiker on April 06, 2008, 09:27:26 AM



THANK YOU GMBW AND KATRIEN! Very interesting news about the possible boat driver, Katrien. Is this a reliable source? TIA.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Buckeye on April 06, 2008, 09:35:30 AM
I could be wrong, but I think the civil case is not a wrongful death case.  I'm not sure there is even such a thing in the Netherlands.

I think the case is for shock value.  Joran knew what was on the tape before it was broadcast.  He didn't try to stop the broadcast (like Guido did with the book).  He is therefore responsible for the "shock" the broadcast created.

I would love broad disclosure, but I'm not so sure that will happen.

Why didn't Joran file an injunction regarding the broadcast?  Didn't want to have to present the case in front of a judge? He must have been more worried his reasoning for not broadcasting than letting the tape be broadcasted....hmmmmm...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: sharon on April 06, 2008, 09:54:12 AM


I agree Sharon. It ain't about the money, it's about the Discovery. Just a short list I'd like to see:

1- Joran's statements through June 9th. (If they're not missing.)

1B- If they are missing I'd like to see Jannsen, Straten and Jacobs subpoened and asked why?

1C- Follow-up on ALE questioning Beth and Dave about seizures.

2- Kalpoes statements versus Joran's statements on the security guards. Jannsen said Joran's was irrevelent.

3- All cell phone and internet correspondence of Joran, Paulus, Kalpoes, Croes, Lorenzo and Gottenbos.

4- All communications records between Paulus and Van der Straten plus the judges.

5- Any bank transactions by Paulus immediately following the disappearance.

6- All police records pertaining to the arrest of the guards.

7- Testimony from Jannsen and Van der Straten pertaining to the arrest of the guards and non-arrest of the perps.

8- All of Joran's legal bills and who has paid for them.


FEEL FREE TO ADD!


Morning Dayhiker  ::MonkeyDance::

+ ask vander straaten about his interesting quotes (paraphrased) "I know about the investigation and you don't" "if I told you about the dogs it would give an indication of the direction of the case"

+ ask Staanley why he felt that the body of Natalee was found but not reported as a 'favor' to Paulus

+ who in the heck was in holland and who was in Aruba the night Natalee was taken by aliens  ::MonkeyWink::

+ did paulus really go to miami while his son was in prison (or the days leading up to it) and if so, why

+ what size are Joran' s feet?  ::MonkeyLaugh::


And the list goes on..........the list goes on......... ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: sharon on April 06, 2008, 10:05:35 AM
Also meant to add -- IMO, this was never and will never be about money.

It's all about 'discovery'

AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT....IT DOES

Justice for Natalee



I agree...but what kind of a person would think that under these circumstances? And really...how much money does he have anyway? But then again....I heard he's a good pokerplayer ;-)

GBMW -- thinking about this (highlighted in red) depresses me immensely.

I'm a baby boomer who came to her rights of passage in the 70's  ::MonkeyHaHa:: And I've said since the early early days of this story that I would not judge a single family member (and RH makes that value difficult) until the truth is known as I would never want to walk an inch in their flip flops (I live in Miami  ::MonkeyHaHa:: )

When I look back at the early days of June '05 -- and the intentional lies and deceptions and misniformation campaigns that were propagated (and financially supported) by a government and tourism industry, I get sick to my stomach that such creatures live on my earth.

And the fact that several apparently US traitors (no - they cannot be considered ex-pats) lead that bandwagon just turns up the disgust.

I have had to STOP thinking about what makes these creatures 'tick' because it defies the logic of mankind. And supports the logic of pyschopaths. And makes me cry.

Can you tell that I don't visit the sites visited by the 'dark side' ?  ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::


Boycott Aruba
Justice for Natalee


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: katrien on April 06, 2008, 10:15:26 AM



THANK YOU GMBW AND KATRIEN! Very interesting news about the possible boat driver, Katrien. Is this a reliable source? TIA.

Quote
Misdaadverslaggever Henk Strootman (45) behoort tot de oudgedienden van Actueel Sportief. Als ex-politieman was hij al bekend met het criminele milieu, de fijne kneepjes echter van het verslaggevervak leerde hij van Peter R. de Vries. Op zijn weblog zal hij ingaan op de laatste nieuwtjes, verslag doen van zijn belevenissen en een inkijkje geven in de duistere wereld van moord en doodslag.

Rough translation:

Quote
Crime reporter Henk Strootman (45) is belonging to the old campaigners of Aktueel sport. As an ex-police officer he knows the circuit. He  learned reporting skills from Peter R. de Vries. On his weblog he will report the latest news, tell about his experiences and gives glimpses into the dark world of crime.
That all I can find about him.  In the Dutch case (I was telling about earlier) he is one of the few reporters who told from the start the police work was very well done. I can only fully agree with him. ::MonkeyCool::

I have the impresson he is a reliable source.  :wink:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 06, 2008, 10:17:28 AM
Posted at BFN regarding the post at Patrick's site:

On Patrick's website (www.patrickvandereem.nl) you can read that Friday announcements were made that the subpoena against Joran and his parents. The Kalpoe brothers have also been called to testify. Peter R. de Vries and Patrick will be called as witnesses by the Dutch lawyers of Beth.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 06, 2008, 10:36:54 AM
Also meant to add -- IMO, this was never and will never be about money.

It's all about 'discovery'

AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT....IT DOES

Justice for Natalee


I agree Sharon. It ain't about the money, it's about the Discovery. Just a short list I'd like to see:

1- Joran's statements through June 9th. (If they're not missing.)

1B- If they are missing I'd like to see Jannsen, Straten and Jacobs subpoened and asked why?

1C- Follow-up on ALE questioning Beth and Dave about seizures.

2- Kalpoes statements versus Joran's statements on the security guards. Jannsen said Joran's was irrevelent.

3- All cell phone and internet correspondence of Joran, Paulus, Kalpoes, Croes, Lorenzo and Gottenbos.

4- All communications records between Paulus and Van der Straten plus the judges.

5- Any bank transactions by Paulus immediately following the disappearance.

6- All police records pertaining to the arrest of the guards.

7- Testimony from Jannsen and Van der Straten pertaining to the arrest of the guards and non-arrest of the perps.

8- All of Joran's legal bills and who has paid for them.


FEEL FREE TO ADD!



Can I add a few things I would like to see?

All of Freddy's PV's.
Andres Meneses PV's.
All of Lorenzo's PV's.
The items that were returned to the tennis player.
Joran and Freddy's girlfriend's PV's.
Koen and Sanders PV's. 

Just those alone would fill in a whole bunch of blanks and most likely tell a story we won't believe.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 06, 2008, 10:45:25 AM
Goodmorning!

Patrick put a translation of his latest blog on his website.....

Civil suit against Joran starts

Hollands most famous lawyer Bram Moszkowicz has been preparing the civil suit agsinst Joran van der Sloot and possibly his parents. The lawyer works for Beth. Some websites reported on Friday that subpoenas were sent to Joran, his parents, the crime reporter Peter R. de Vries and myself. Also the Kalpoe brothers have been called to testify, because the lawyer wants to figure out why they gave Joran a false alibi.

I have not received my subpoena yet, but expect to pick the doc from the doormat on Monday or Tuesday. Of course I will be there for Beth, who has suffered hard and long under this case.

Under Dutch law judges are traditionally very strict with damages for pain and suffering to relatives of victims of crimes and accidents . The lawmaker has always been afraid for a culture of ambulance chasers and the commercialization of grief. While in the civil suit against O.J. Simpson damages like $ 8.5 million were ruled, it would be out of the ordinary if a Dutch judge awards more than 100.000 ($ 160.000). Perhaps this case will set a new trend. The life of Natalees parents has been derailed for years already.

Usually judges tend to focus only on material damages, like lost wages of breadwinners and funeral expenses. Especially the value of a child in this kind of legal culture in terms of dollars is low. In 2002 the Supreme Court of Holland agreed to immaterial damages in the first case ever, to a mother who had to witness the dead body of her daughter under the wheels of a truck, for a pittance of 13.000. Of course the circumstances in this case are totally different, but it sets a trend.

The good news of this civil suit is that Joran and his parents will not have the right to remain silent anymore or can rely on what in the US is known as the Fifth Amendment. They have to answer the questions of the lawyer and the judge and will be heard under oath. This can have nasty consequences for them. Assume for instance that Jorans father knows far more than he has told until now or even helped him. When he would lie during this civil suit and this surfaces in a possible later criminal suit (even when he tells the truth there), perjury can be established. Perjury carries a maximum penalty in Holland of 6 years and/or a fine of 18,500. The same sentence can be handed out to all other family members who testify under oath and lie, including Joran.

Some people therefore speculate that this might be the reason that Joran has been admitted in a psychiatric institute. There he receives therapy for people who hit rock bottom in their lives and need treatment for behavioral and psychiatric problems. As long as Joran is under the care of these psychiatrists, his lawyer can claim that he is able to answers questions. Meanwhile the civil suit can of course just start with hearing the other witnesses. Usually these civil suits last for more than one year.

I will keep you informed in my blog about all the developments in this case. Of course I will go myself, completely voluntarily, to be heard as a witness in this court case.

GBMW ... thank you.

I would appreciate if you could provide me with the link to Patrick's site.

Thank you.

Good Morning Monkeys.

Janet
7:45 AM


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 06, 2008, 10:47:14 AM
By the way...forgot I wanted to post this..

I'm not totally sure what this is saying.
The polis investigation van was ???? and wrecked or the polis have taken the van into custody for further examination. Anyone want to get this one a shot?

I see it says the 'van of the polis was transported to the polis ward / station for more investigation'.
Does that look right to anyone else?

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/Whitevan4-5-20082.jpg)

Den oranan di merdia a drenta informe cu un mini van lo a bolter un poco mas pabao di A-Mart na Piedra Plat. Mester bisa cu ora cu polis a yega na e sitio nan a constata cu no tin ningun hende herida y nan no por a encontra e chauffeur di e auto y mucho menos e papelnan di e vehiculo pa cual motibo a pidi pa takelwagen di Polis transporta e van pa warda di Polis pa mas investigacion. Click read more pa mas imagen.

http://www.24ora.com


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 06, 2008, 10:52:22 AM
I speculate that the civil suit brought against the VDS' by Beth Holloway will never go forward.  The continued manipulation of Dutch law that has denied Natalee Holloway justice for almost three years will be where it is at.

Think about ... manipulation of Dutch law has protected Paulus and Joran for three years ...
 
Also ... Holland is fully aware that snowball effect of "discovery" will be too far reaching.  Those at all levels of the Dutch/Aruban administrations who were involved in or aware of the coverup will be exposed for who they are ... corrupt.

Janet

+++++++++++

Beth Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
November 14, 2005


VAN SUSTEREN: They are saying that even the AG is controlled by The Hague, so they're keeping Karen Janssen on ...

TWITTY: Well Greta, somebody is lobbying for Joran in the Hague in order to protect him ... it has to be.


Joe Scarborough
'Scarborough Country'
June 30, 2005


SCARBOROUGH: Friends, let me tell you something. This is an incestuous investigation. Thats what Washington officials are saying. I have got to tell you, its so obvious. You look at this. You have the Dutch government. And I was toldanother source told me today, if you really want to know whats going on in Aruba, if you want to understand why we cant get to the bottom of anything, you know what? You cant search for answers in Aruba. You have got to follow it, follow that trail all the way over to the Netherlands, because thats where the real power of this investigation is.

And they are the ones that many in Washington, D.C., believe are covering up this investigation.  

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8430791/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 06, 2008, 10:53:51 AM
Janet - Patrick's site

http://patrickvandereem.nl/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dayhiker on April 06, 2008, 11:04:39 AM


I agree Sharon. It ain't about the money, it's about the Discovery. Just a short list I'd like to see:

1- Joran's statements through June 9th. (If they're not missing.)

1B- If they are missing I'd like to see Jannsen, Straten and Jacobs subpoened and asked why?

1C- Follow-up on ALE questioning Beth and Dave about seizures.

2- Kalpoes statements versus Joran's statements on the security guards. Jannsen said Joran's was irrevelent.

3- All cell phone and internet correspondence of Joran, Paulus, Kalpoes, Croes, Lorenzo and Gottenbos.

4- All communications records between Paulus and Van der Straten plus the judges.

5- Any bank transactions by Paulus immediately following the disappearance.

6- All police records pertaining to the arrest of the guards.

7- Testimony from Jannsen and Van der Straten pertaining to the arrest of the guards and non-arrest of the perps.

8- All of Joran's legal bills and who has paid for them.


FEEL FREE TO ADD!


Morning Dayhiker  ::MonkeyDance::

+ ask vander straaten about his interesting quotes (paraphrased) "I know about the investigation and you don't" "if I told you about the dogs it would give an indication of the direction of the case"

+ ask Staanley why he felt that the body of Natalee was found but not reported as a 'favor' to Paulus

+ who in the heck was in holland and who was in Aruba the night Natalee was taken by aliens  ::MonkeyWink::

+ did paulus really go to miami while his son was in prison (or the days leading up to it) and if so, why

+ what size are Joran' s feet?  ::MonkeyLaugh::


And the list goes on..........the list goes on......... ::MonkeyWink::


Great additions Sharon. I think if Van der Straten knew he was being investigated and could face criminal charges for purposely botching the investigation he would spill his guts. It seems like he was trying to all along, almost like an unwilling participant but a participant nonetheless. Who was Jan taking orders from?

Remember he said that the case should have been solved in the first week but "some people did not wish to cooperate." I doubt he was talking about the perps, you couldn't expect them to cooperate, so was he talking about higher up?

Jan and Karin both knew about the "seizure" statements from Joran. That puts both of them in the corruption spotlight.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dayhiker on April 06, 2008, 11:07:51 AM
Also meant to add -- IMO, this was never and will never be about money.

It's all about 'discovery'

AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT....IT DOES

Justice for Natalee


I agree Sharon. It ain't about the money, it's about the Discovery. Just a short list I'd like to see:

1- Joran's statements through June 9th. (If they're not missing.)

1B- If they are missing I'd like to see Jannsen, Straten and Jacobs subpoened and asked why?

1C- Follow-up on ALE questioning Beth and Dave about seizures.

2- Kalpoes statements versus Joran's statements on the security guards. Jannsen said Joran's was irrevelent.

3- All cell phone and internet correspondence of Joran, Paulus, Kalpoes, Croes, Lorenzo and Gottenbos.

4- All communications records between Paulus and Van der Straten plus the judges.

5- Any bank transactions by Paulus immediately following the disappearance.

6- All police records pertaining to the arrest of the guards.

7- Testimony from Jannsen and Van der Straten pertaining to the arrest of the guards and non-arrest of the perps.

8- All of Joran's legal bills and who has paid for them.


FEEL FREE TO ADD!



Can I add a few things I would like to see?

All of Freddy's PV's.
Andres Meneses PV's.
All of Lorenzo's PV's.
The items that were returned to the tennis player.
Joran and Freddy's girlfriend's PV's.
Koen and Sanders PV's. 

Just those alone would fill in a whole bunch of blanks and most likely tell a story we won't believe.


Yup, throw all those friends of Joran in there too, Lalas. Especially Freddy, Lorenzo and the Gottenbros!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: MumInOhio on April 06, 2008, 11:15:26 AM
Also meant to add -- IMO, this was never and will never be about money.

It's all about 'discovery'

AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT....IT DOES

Justice for Natalee


I agree Sharon. It ain't about the money, it's about the Discovery. Just a short list I'd like to see:

1- Joran's statements through June 9th. (If they're not missing.)

1B- If they are missing I'd like to see Jannsen, Straten and Jacobs subpoened and asked why?

1C- Follow-up on ALE questioning Beth and Dave about seizures.

2- Kalpoes statements versus Joran's statements on the security guards. Jannsen said Joran's was irrevelent.

3- All cell phone and internet correspondence of Joran, Paulus, Kalpoes, Croes, Lorenzo and Gottenbos.

4- All communications records between Paulus and Van der Straten plus the judges.

5- Any bank transactions by Paulus immediately following the disappearance.

6- All police records pertaining to the arrest of the guards.

7- Testimony from Jannsen and Van der Straten pertaining to the arrest of the guards and non-arrest of the perps.

8- All of Joran's legal bills and who has paid for them.


FEEL FREE TO ADD!



Can I add a few things I would like to see?

All of Freddy's PV's.
Andres Meneses PV's.
All of Lorenzo's PV's.
The items that were returned to the tennis player.
Joran and Freddy's girlfriend's PV's.
Koen and Sanders PV's. 

Just those alone would fill in a whole bunch of blanks and most likely tell a story we won't believe.


Tennis coach and the PV's for the other Racquet Club peeps may clear up a lot. I wonder if he ever got whatever he wanted back?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: nimrod on April 06, 2008, 11:17:17 AM
Also meant to add -- IMO, this was never and will never be about money.

It's all about 'discovery'

AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT....IT DOES

Justice for Natalee


I agree Sharon. It ain't about the money, it's about the Discovery. Just a short list I'd like to see:

1- Joran's statements through June 9th. (If they're not missing.)

1B- If they are missing I'd like to see Jannsen, Straten and Jacobs subpoened and asked why?

1C- Follow-up on ALE questioning Beth and Dave about seizures.

2- Kalpoes statements versus Joran's statements on the security guards. Jannsen said Joran's was irrevelent.

3- All cell phone and internet correspondence of Joran, Paulus, Kalpoes, Croes, Lorenzo and Gottenbos.

4- All communications records between Paulus and Van der Straten plus the judges.

5- Any bank transactions by Paulus immediately following the disappearance.

6- All police records pertaining to the arrest of the guards.

7- Testimony from Jannsen and Van der Straten pertaining to the arrest of the guards and non-arrest of the perps.

8- All of Joran's legal bills and who has paid for them.


FEEL FREE TO ADD!



Can I add a few things I would like to see?

All of Freddy's PV's.
Andres Meneses PV's.
All of Lorenzo's PV's.
The items that were returned to the tennis player.
Joran and Freddy's girlfriend's PV's.
Koen and Sanders PV's. 

Just those alone would fill in a whole bunch of blanks and most likely tell a story we won't believe.


Yup, throw all those friends of Joran in there too, Lalas. Especially Freddy, Lorenzo and the Gottenbros!

Also toss in: Was that Paulas at the casino talking to Natalee? and What are the Chicago pictures of? Number one to me is where is Joran's May 31, 2005 iinterview.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: caesu on April 06, 2008, 11:31:21 AM
very nice of patrick to translate in english for you guys too!
he continues to be a great help.

http://patrickvandereem.nl/stories/civil-suit-against-joran-andor-parents-starts/



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 06, 2008, 11:44:54 AM
very nice of patrick to translate in english for you guys too!
he continues to be a great help.

http://patrickvandereem.nl/stories/civil-suit-against-joran-andor-parents-starts/



caesu and Klaas ... thank you for the link.

Have a good day Monkeys.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: SS on April 06, 2008, 12:21:06 PM
I speculate that the civil suit brought against the VDS' by Beth Holloway will never go forward.  The continued manipulation of Dutch law that has denied Natalee Holloway justice for almost three years will be where it is at.

Think about ... manipulation of Dutch law has protected Paulus and Joran for three years ...
 
Also ... Holland is fully aware that snowball effect of "discovery" will be too far reaching.  Those at all levels of the Dutch/Aruban administrations who were involved in or aware of the coverup will be exposed for who they are ... corrupt.

Janet

+++++++++++

Beth Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
November 14, 2005


VAN SUSTEREN: They are saying that even the AG is controlled by The Hague, so they're keeping Karen Janssen on ...

TWITTY: Well Greta, somebody is lobbying for Joran in the Hague in order to protect him ... it has to be.


Joe Scarborough
'Scarborough Country'
June 30, 2005


SCARBOROUGH: Friends, let me tell you something. This is an incestuous investigation. Thats what Washington officials are saying. I have got to tell you, its so obvious. You look at this. You have the Dutch government. And I was toldanother source told me today, if you really want to know whats going on in Aruba, if you want to understand why we cant get to the bottom of anything, you know what? You cant search for answers in Aruba. You have got to follow it, follow that trail all the way over to the Netherlands, because thats where the real power of this investigation is.

And they are the ones that many in Washington, D.C., believe are covering up this investigation.  

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8430791/



Good Morning Janet,

Unfortunately, you might be right about the law suit not going forward.  But if it doesn't, the world outrage will be much greater than after the video was aired.  I don't think it's about money, either.  Beth is trying to expose them and if The Hague blocks this law suit she will in effect be exposing The Hague.  I think that Beth will win no mater what happens.  It's about time that the worm is finally turning.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 06, 2008, 12:46:24 PM
By the way...forgot I wanted to post this..

I'm not totally sure what this is saying.
The polis investigation van was ???? and wrecked or the polis have taken the van into custody for further examination. Anyone want to get this one a shot?

I see it says the 'van of the polis was transported to the polis ward / station for more investigation'.
Does that look right to anyone else?

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/Whitevan4-5-20082.jpg)

Den oranan di merdia a drenta informe cu un mini van lo a bolter un poco mas pabao di A-Mart na Piedra Plat. Mester bisa cu ora cu polis a yega na e sitio nan a constata cu no tin ningun hende herida y nan no por a encontra e chauffeur di e auto y mucho menos e papelnan di e vehiculo pa cual motibo a pidi pa takelwagen di Polis transporta e van pa warda di Polis pa mas investigacion. Click read more pa mas imagen.

http://www.24ora.com

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/COLLECTIONOFVANS2.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: katrien on April 06, 2008, 01:57:47 PM
I speculate that the civil suit brought against the VDS' by Beth Holloway will never go forward.  The continued manipulation of Dutch law that has denied Natalee Holloway justice for almost three years will be where it is at.

Think about ... manipulation of Dutch law has protected Paulus and Joran for three years ...
 
Also ... Holland is fully aware that snowball effect of "discovery" will be too far reaching.  Those at all levels of the Dutch/Aruban administrations who were involved in or aware of the coverup will be exposed for who they are ... corrupt.

Janet

+++++++++++

Beth Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
November 14, 2005


VAN SUSTEREN: They are saying that even the AG is controlled by The Hague, so they're keeping Karen Janssen on ...

TWITTY: Well Greta, somebody is lobbying for Joran in the Hague in order to protect him ... it has to be.


Joe Scarborough
'Scarborough Country'
June 30, 2005


SCARBOROUGH: Friends, let me tell you something. This is an incestuous investigation. Thats what Washington officials are saying. I have got to tell you, its so obvious. You look at this. You have the Dutch government. And I was toldanother source told me today, if you really want to know whats going on in Aruba, if you want to understand why we cant get to the bottom of anything, you know what? You cant search for answers in Aruba. You have got to follow it, follow that trail all the way over to the Netherlands, because thats where the real power of this investigation is.

And they are the ones that many in Washington, D.C., believe are covering up this investigation.  

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8430791/

I hope  you're wrong.
I do not believe there is an organized cover up coming all the way from the Netherlands. There might be a few people from Holland being involved in a cover up but I do not believe the Dutch Government is covering this, it is nearly impossible.

Bram Moszkowicz is not just a layer. ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 06, 2008, 03:16:30 PM
I speculate that the civil suit brought against the VDS' by Beth Holloway will never go forward.  The continued manipulation of Dutch law that has denied Natalee Holloway justice for almost three years will be where it is at.

Think about ... manipulation of Dutch law has protected Paulus and Joran for three years ...
 
Also ... Holland is fully aware that snowball effect of "discovery" will be too far reaching.  Those at all levels of the Dutch/Aruban administrations who were involved in or aware of the coverup will be exposed for who they are ... corrupt.

Janet

+++++++++++

Beth Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
November 14, 2005


VAN SUSTEREN: They are saying that even the AG is controlled by The Hague, so they're keeping Karen Janssen on ...

TWITTY: Well Greta, somebody is lobbying for Joran in the Hague in order to protect him ... it has to be.


Joe Scarborough
'Scarborough Country'
June 30, 2005


SCARBOROUGH: Friends, let me tell you something. This is an incestuous investigation. Thats what Washington officials are saying. I have got to tell you, its so obvious. You look at this. You have the Dutch government. And I was toldanother source told me today, if you really want to know whats going on in Aruba, if you want to understand why we cant get to the bottom of anything, you know what? You cant search for answers in Aruba. You have got to follow it, follow that trail all the way over to the Netherlands, because thats where the real power of this investigation is.

And they are the ones that many in Washington, D.C., believe are covering up this investigation.  

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8430791/

Good Morning Janet,

Unfortunately, you might be right about the law suit not going forward.  But if it doesn't, the world outrage will be much greater than after the video was aired.  I don't think it's about money, either.  Beth is trying to expose them and if The Hague blocks this law suit she will in effect be exposing The Hague.  I think that Beth will win no mater what happens.  It's about time that the worm is finally turning.

 ::MonkeyDance::

SS ... I agree.

Beth promised Aruban Prime Minister Oduber that she would be Natalee's voice ... Natalee's voice crying out for justice .... for as long as it took.  I believe that the lawsuit is just one more avenue that this amazing woman is travelling in fulfilling that pledge.  For the sake of other "Natalees" Beth will not allow the her daughter to become a distance memory.

Janet

++++++++++


Beth Twitty
'Scarborough Country'
October 24, 2005


HOLLOWAY-TWITTY:  I met with Prime Minister Oduber. I dont care who you put the pressure on, where it comes from, but I wantyou need to figure it out. You need to figure out who needs to apply the pressure and where it needs to be applied, because you have to solve this crime. I said, you do not want to turn me loose from this island without an answer.

<snipped>

TWITTY: I have told Prime Minister Oduber that I will do this, I will be the voice of Natalee for the next 40 years. And I hope I have that long, because I will do it as long as I can.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9813596/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: igsigs on April 06, 2008, 03:23:56 PM
Henk Strootman ... sounds familiar.

I think he is guy that reported that wiretaps were installed during the Sloot search - and that Joran cancelled his trip home - and they got nothing out of it. IIRC!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 06, 2008, 03:32:22 PM


This was confirmed to me by Diario days ago...Basterd in hiding!!!

Thanks Janet....I love board games too ;-)   Have you ever played Othello...the game with black and white stones?...big fun!


You bet Destiny! His lawyer Bert as much as tells us the real reason he is in there. He doesn't want to testify! Those Van der Sloots sure know how to work the system don't they?


I have to wonder what kind of treatment someone like Joran gets. 

Do they encourage him to tell the truth?

Do they encourage him to tell lies?

Do they encourage him to take responsibility for his actions?

Do they encourage him to take responsibility for the results of his many changing stories?

What exactly are they able to do for him?

What is the treatment for someone like Joran?

What is the purpose of such a facility? 

Treatment?  Does treatment include avoiding legal action?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Blonde on April 06, 2008, 03:39:59 PM
Did We Know this?

Tattoo is Back!
 Entertainment      Tuesday, March 25th, 2008
Marcus Wigging welcomed guests on board Tattoo, on Friday. Tattoo looked amazing, all lit up and festive, pumping music and pouring drinks, just what you expect. The giant party boat received a total facelift just recently in honor of its debut this week as a Sunset Celebration boat.

Sunset Celebration, a 5 pm ritual-on-the-water will be orchestrated each evening. Tattoo will be charging very reasonably for the trip, and offering a great happy-hour bar.

Non-stop entertainment is the key, says Marcus, Carnival music, salsa dancers, a countdown salute to sunset, cool and hip staff members, juicy burgers and chicken wings, in short, Its Five Oclock Somewhere, and Tattoo is back, you may laugh, dance, talk,

bla bla bla   http://www.aruba.com/news/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 06, 2008, 03:43:33 PM
Did We Know this?

Tattoo is Back!
 Entertainment      Tuesday, March 25th, 2008
Marcus Wigging welcomed guests on board Tattoo, on Friday. Tattoo looked amazing, all lit up and festive, pumping music and pouring drinks, just what you expect. The giant party boat received a total facelift just recently in honor of its debut this week as a Sunset Celebration boat.

Sunset Celebration, a 5 pm ritual-on-the-water will be orchestrated each evening. Tattoo will be charging very reasonably for the trip, and offering a great happy-hour bar.

Non-stop entertainment is the key, says Marcus, Carnival music, salsa dancers, a countdown salute to sunset, cool and hip staff members, juicy burgers and chicken wings, in short, Its Five Oclock Somewhere, and Tattoo is back, you may laugh, dance, talk,

bla bla bla   http://www.aruba.com/news/


Yes, we did know and one of their first outings was for Club Arias  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: dennisintn on April 06, 2008, 04:05:57 PM

they're still encouraging dangerous behavior on the hapless isle.  laughing, dancing, talking, and having fun on the beach is considered a legitimate reason for killing you and hiding your body. 
dennisintn


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 06, 2008, 04:21:03 PM
I speculate that the civil suit brought against the VDS' by Beth Holloway will never go forward.  The continued manipulation of Dutch law that has denied Natalee Holloway justice for almost three years will be where it is at.

Think about ... manipulation of Dutch law has protected Paulus and Joran for three years ...
 
Also ... Holland is fully aware that snowball effect of "discovery" will be too far reaching.  Those at all levels of the Dutch/Aruban administrations who were involved in or aware of the coverup will be exposed for who they are ... corrupt.

Janet

+++++++++++

Beth Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
November 14, 2005


VAN SUSTEREN: They are saying that even the AG is controlled by The Hague, so they're keeping Karen Janssen on ...

TWITTY: Well Greta, somebody is lobbying for Joran in the Hague in order to protect him ... it has to be.


Joe Scarborough
'Scarborough Country'
June 30, 2005


SCARBOROUGH: Friends, let me tell you something. This is an incestuous investigation. Thats what Washington officials are saying. I have got to tell you, its so obvious. You look at this. You have the Dutch government. And I was toldanother source told me today, if you really want to know whats going on in Aruba, if you want to understand why we cant get to the bottom of anything, you know what? You cant search for answers in Aruba. You have got to follow it, follow that trail all the way over to the Netherlands, because thats where the real power of this investigation is.

And they are the ones that many in Washington, D.C., believe are covering up this investigation.  

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8430791/

I hope  you're wrong.
I do not believe there is an organized cover up coming all the way from the Netherlands. There might be a few people from Holland being involved in a cover up but I do not believe the Dutch Government is covering this, it is nearly impossible.

Bram Moszkowicz is not just a layer. ::MonkeyCool::

Katrien ... I believe with all my heart that the Dutch and the Aruban are one in the coverup that has denied Natalee Holloway justice.  The Prosecutor ... the Attorney General and ... the judges are accountable to the Hague.

IMO

Janet

+++++++++++


Beth Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
November 9, 2005


VAN SUSTEREN: All right, the idea of the boycott and Governor Riley how did this come about?

TWITTY: You know, Greta, I was thinking about that. Aruba really has made us evolve to this position because, you know, what Aruba and The Hague have done to us is they've been dishonest from the beginning. If they would just have been forthcoming from the beginning to lead us to the proper authorities we would never be in this position right now.

VAN SUSTEREN: Can you identify one particular person, if we could sort of chisel away and find out who it is that we need to get to, to get information, so that we can sort of break this log jam who is that person?

TWITTY: Well, I think that's the $64 question and now we've got Aruba playing the blame game with The Hague. I mean I thought only the suspects were doing the blame game. It looks like Aruba and The Hague now are playing the blame game, Greta. It's hard to tell.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right and just so that the viewers, I understand what you're talking about, you got a letter in which it explained what the Arubans said to you that The Hague has been calling the shots, is that right, in the investigation?

TWITTY: Yes, they're saying, in the letter it states that the Aruban government has no authority to intervene in the investigation. Now then why have we been running around on the island submitting written and verbal requests for help from the governor, from the minister of justice, the prime minister? I mean the list is endless, Greta.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there, I mean like where is most of your frustration? Is it directed at a particular person? I mean I know that fundamentally that you want information about your daughter. Every parent wants that. But is there someone who you think is standing in the way more than another?

TWITTY: I don't think it's someone. I think it's something. I think it's the dishonesty that has been coming out of that island since May 31st and all we have wanted for them to be as honest with us and be forthcoming and tell us and lead us in the proper direction. That's all we've asked. That's all we've asked of them.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175101,00.html


Dave Holloway
Scarborough Country
November 7, 2005


Joe: Another strange twist in the Holloway story tonight. Aruba authorities have sent a letter to Alabama Governor Bob Riley that may make a new investigation even harder to move forward with.

The letter says in part:

The chief prosecutor leading the investigation and the General Prosecutor are appointed by the Kingdom Government in the Hague. Because of separation of powers, the government of Aruba has no authority to intervene in the investigation.

Dept. of Foreign Affairs, Nov. 4

Source: Dept of Foreign Affairs, Aruba

Joining us is Dave Holloway.


Joe: After all these months you and your family have been suffering, you find out that the Aruba authorities claim they have absolutely no say in this investigation?  Where do you go from here?

Dave: Well, thats really unbelievable that they take the wash their hands approach.  Were going to proceed on with The Hague, I guess. Also, our six page letter we were asked to provide to the Attorney General and we provided a carbon copy to the PM and Condoleezza Rice. We have not heard a response to that letter yet.

Joe: Dave, Ive been asking the question for months on people down on the ground down in Aruba who has the power to run this investigation? Who has the power to hire? Who has the power to fire? Who has the power to subpoena? Nobody seems to know. This really does look like a banana republic down there. Anytime anyone gets cornered down there, they just point the finger across the Atlantic.

Dave: Well, that seems to be the case. Weve been running around in circles for five months now. When we reduce it down to writing, they put it back in writing and its obvious they are pointing the finger somewhere else now.

Joe: So you are I guess at the end of the line as far as dealing with the Aruba authorities? Now you just have to take up with the Dutch government?

Dave: Thats what it appears to be. With the Dutch government and with the Attorney General. Mind you, the minister of justice had mentioned about a month ago that he felt like this would just leave it alone and it will go away. So we know what his approach is now.

Joe: The new chief investigator, someone that you all looked forward to having on but now Dompig seems actually to be as big an obstacle as anything. Hes actually come out and attacked you all, hasnt he?

Dave: Well, hes attacked Beth in some sense by putting out on the island that she might be involved somehow in Natalees disappearance and making money off of it.  So it looks to me that hes trying to incite anti Beth sentiment across the country of Aruba.

Joe: You know Dave were so frustrated, I know you all just have to be beyond yourselves right now. The question a lot of people are asking is what can we do?  Is this the time we go to Governor Riley and other people and talk about a possible boycott of Aruba? Is it that time yet or are you all going to play this out a little longer?

Dave: Well, the people of Aruba have elected their officials and their officials have spoken. We have elected officials and well let our elected officials speak.

Joe: Will you make any requests of the elected officials to possibly move forward with a boycott of Aruba?

Dave: Well, again Joe, we elect our officials and they decide what is necessary for the people. Whatever the governor decides, thats what well do.

Joe: Okay thank you so much Dave Holloway. As always, know that our thoughts and prayers will be with you and your entire family. Friends it sounds like a show down is coming. Can you believe after 5 months of this family going through this private hell this personal hell and after all of this time it just keeps getting pushed around.

They are getting no answers. They get to the point where there is a new investigator they believe they are going to get answers on how their daughter disappeared and most likely died. Right as they push them right to the wall, the Aruba authorities say wait a second, weve got no authority. I tell you what; Im not waiting for the government. Were going to look into a boycott sometime soon.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/11/07/dave-holloway-responds-to-letter-to-governor-riley-regarding-the-natalee-holloway-investigation/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 06, 2008, 04:31:23 PM

they're still encouraging dangerous behavior on the hapless isle.  laughing, dancing, talking, and having fun on the beach is considered a legitimate reason for killing you and hiding your body. 
dennisintn

I'll have to disagree with you on the use of the word "killing" ~

May I suggest that some may make life changing and/or medical decisions based on physical symptoms without benefit of a medical degree/training?  Or perhaps the training to make these decisions is part of basic first aid learned in school? 

Maybe the hiding of the body is to encourage false hope in your family that you are still among the living? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 06, 2008, 04:37:42 PM
Aruba requesting Internal Affairs Minister Johan Remkes assistance in investigating the Natalee Holloway case is another conflict of interest.  On January 1, 2003 ... Johan Remkes endorsed the the appointment of Paulus van der Sloot to "deputy member of the common Court of Justice of the Netherlands antilles and Aruba".

I will go out on a limb and ... speculate that all the judges who gave favorable rulings for the suspects in the Natalee Holloway case were appointed by some "duputy member of the common Court of the Justice of the Netherlands antilles and Aruba".

Obviously ... the Dutch investigation was all a "dog and pony show".  Nothing the implied justice for Natalee Holloway ever evolved.  The lying declarations in the case file were never challenged.

Janet

++++++++++++++

ASSOCIATED PRESS

August 26, 2006
Aruba wants Dutch police to take over Natalee case


ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) Aruban authorities want Dutch police to take over the investigation of the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway, who vanished on the Caribbean island more than one year ago, a local newspaper reported Friday.  Aruba's Justice Minister Rudy Croes sent a letter last week to Netherlands' Internal Affairs Minister Johan Remkes and to another Dutch official asking the Dutch police to handle the case, saying little progress had been made, the Solo di Pueblo newspaper reported.

If Dutch police take over the investigation, they will have access to all case files and their own office, according to the newspaper, which didn't cite its source. Remkes will visit the Dutch Caribbean islands, including Aruba, next week, authorities said in the Netherlands.

Telephone calls placed to Croes' office for comment Friday went unanswered.

Holloway vanished on May 30, 2005, the last night of a high school graduation trip to Aruba. Then 18, the native of Mountain Brook was last seen leaving a bar with three young men.

Authorities have arrested eight people in connection with her disappearance and then released them for lack of evidence.

Copyright 2005 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,210525,00.html
 
http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/news/060826/aruba.shtml


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 06, 2008, 04:56:11 PM
The Prosecutor and the Attorney General are appointed by the Hague.  Think about it ... Paulus van der Sloot worked for the Prosecutor's Office in Aruba for EIGHT YEARS.  The implication is that relationships/connections that extend to the Hague would have been were it was at.  I would not be surprised if it was the "powers in the Hague" that appointed Paulus' to his position within the Prosecutor's Office in Aruba.

The conflicts of interest in the Natalee Holloway case are far reaching.  The Hague is not an innocent bystander to the injustices bestowed up an eighteen year old American citizen and ... her long suffering family.

Considering ... the conflicts of interest ... the Hague had the ability to appoint an independent Prosecutor as well as Judges from an international agency but ... 

IMO

Janet

++++++++++++++++++++


Paulus van der Sloot
NOVA (Twan Huys)
June 28, 2005

JUDICIARY


Reporter (Twan Huys): Which function do you have here at the island? Because many stories go around about that. What is your function?
 
Paulus van der Sloot: I am a replacing member of the joint court of justice of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba [1] and I am appointed for a period of three years, from January the first, 2003, until January the first, 2006.
 
Reporter (Twan Huys): So, you are replacement judge?
 
Paulus van der Sloot: Yes.


PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE

Reporter (Twan Huys): Do you know the people very well, for example, the people here from the public prosecutors' office that ordered your detention?

Paulus van der Sloot: Yes, for sure, because, before that, I have worked for eight years as chief of the cabinet of the prosecutor general [2].  

Reporter (Twan Huys):  So, you also know the current prosecutor general?
 
Paulus van der Sloot: Yes.
 
Reporter (Twan Huys): Mrs. Croes.
 
Paulus van der Sloot: Yes.


ARUBAN LAW ENFORCEMENT

Reporter (Twan Huys): Yes, and what does that mean when your colleagues stop by to arrest you?

Paulus van der Sloot: That gives a feeling of absurdity. It is indeed almost unimaginable that by someone you actually know very well, where you worked together with for a long time, that that one comes to tell you that you are suspected of complicity to murder.

Reporter (Twan Huys): Who was that in your case?

Paulus van der Sloot: That was, in this case, that was the leader of the team of police commissioners.
 
Reporter (Twan Huys): Jan van der Straaten.

Paulus van der Sloot: That was Jan van der Straaten, yes.

Reporter (Twan Huys): And you know each other very well?
 
Paulus van der Sloot: Yes.

Translation Credit: Dugo - Riehl Worldview


Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
October 4, 2005


GRACE: Jossy, regarding the connection, what I perceived to be a close connection between the judge, Paulus Van Der Sloot and the retired chief of police who initially handled Natalee`s case, Van Der Stratten, were they friends?

MANSUR: Of course, they were friends. It stands to reason they were friends because Paul Van Der Sloot had many friends within the police department; he had many friends within the Department of Justice. And he had many friends with -- and he was friendly with all the judges in Aruba. He worked out of the same office as they did and did the same work.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0510/04/ng.01.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: sb on April 06, 2008, 05:00:13 PM
Correct on Beth's part not to make this a "wrongful death" situation, but to go for damages for the "shockschade" the VDS family has caused her. I suspect that that term is analogous to what we call "pain-and-suffering" due to Joran's lies and the various attempts to hide the truth by PVDS.

It MIGHT work... at least accomplish a discovery in the court system down there...

I reiterate again, though, that this thing goes higher than that island's tinpot government, that the fine hand of the Hague is behind all this.

I know we are very slow right now (good for archiving posts, though :) ) but we all need to keep hanging in there. Everyone doin' OK?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Kermit on April 06, 2008, 05:46:41 PM


I agree Sharon. It ain't about the money, it's about the Discovery. Just a short list I'd like to see:

1- Joran's statements through June 9th. (If they're not missing.)

1B- If they are missing I'd like to see Jannsen, Straten and Jacobs subpoened and asked why?

1C- Follow-up on ALE questioning Beth and Dave about seizures.

2- Kalpoes statements versus Joran's statements on the security guards. Jannsen said Joran's was irrevelent.

3- All cell phone and internet correspondence of Joran, Paulus, Kalpoes, Croes, Lorenzo and Gottenbos.

4- All communications records between Paulus and Van der Straten plus the judges.

5- Any bank transactions by Paulus immediately following the disappearance.

6- All police records pertaining to the arrest of the guards.

7- Testimony from Jannsen and Van der Straten pertaining to the arrest of the guards and non-arrest of the perps.

8- All of Joran's legal bills and who has paid for them.


FEEL FREE TO ADD!


Morning Dayhiker  ::MonkeyDance::

+ ask vander straaten about his interesting quotes (paraphrased) "I know about the investigation and you don't" "if I told you about the dogs it would give an indication of the direction of the case"

+ ask Staanley why he felt that the body of Natalee was found but not reported as a 'favor' to Paulus

+ who in the heck was in holland and who was in Aruba the night Natalee was taken by aliens  ::MonkeyWink::

+ did paulus really go to miami while his son was in prison (or the days leading up to it) and if so, why

+ what size are Joran' s feet?  ::MonkeyLaugh::


And the list goes on..........the list goes on......... ::MonkeyWink::


Great additions Sharon. I think if Van der Straten knew he was being investigated and could face criminal charges for purposely botching the investigation he would spill his guts. It seems like he was trying to all along, almost like an unwilling participant but a participant nonetheless. Who was Jan taking orders from?

Remember he said that the case should have been solved in the first week but "some people did not wish to cooperate." I doubt he was talking about the perps, you couldn't expect them to cooperate, so was he talking about higher up?

Jan and Karin both knew about the "seizure" statements from Joran. That puts both of them in the corruption spotlight.
[/size]


THAT IS THE STATEMENT OF THE YEAR DAYHIKER.

Why didn't karin janseen take that information to the judge and put those criminals on trial!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 06, 2008, 05:50:01 PM
The Prosecutor and the Attorney General are appointed by the Hague.  Think about it ... Paulus van der Sloot worked for the Prosecutor's Office in Aruba for EIGHT YEARS.  The implication is that relationships/connections that extend to the Hague would have been were it was at.  I would not be surprised if it was the "powers in the Hague" that appointed Paulus' to his position within the Prosecutor's Office in Aruba.

The conflicts of interest in the Natalee Holloway case are far reaching.  The Hague is not an innocent bystander to the injustices bestowed up an eighteen year old American citizen and ... her long suffering family.

Considering ... the conflicts of interest ... the Hague had the ability to appoint an independent Prosecutor as well as Judges from an international agency but ... 

IMO

Janet

++++++++++++++++++++

****Snippage****

I agree with you Janet on Paulus being appointed by the Hague...I also *feel* that Moma Sloot had a lot to do with that...I'm of the persuasion that Mama Sloot has pulled a lot of strings to get Paulus what *SHE* wanted.

I also think that the *powers in the Hague* recognized what a basket case Paulus was...and gave him Aruba...to appease the Mama Sloot...you know how the old Southern saying goes....*if Mama ain't happy...ain't no one happy*...

I'm going to try to focus a little more of my time on the Anita/Hague connection...that's where my *gut* is leading me...

Destiny


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: texasmom on April 06, 2008, 05:58:15 PM
I think Mr. Kermit has read my thoughts!  I see him here.  I have been looking for AHATA officer listings for 2004 and 2005, and I thought I remembered Mr. Kermit posting something like that long ago......  Do I remember correctly?  Or would someone else have that information for me to compare?  Thanks in advance!

Hi everyone!   :smt006


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 06, 2008, 06:02:24 PM
I think Mr. Kermit has read my thoughts!  I see him here.  I have been looking for AHATA officer listings for 2004 and 2005, and I thought I remembered Mr. Kermit posting something like that long ago......  Do I remember correctly?  Or would someone else have that information for me to compare?  Thanks in advance!

Hi everyone!   :smt006

Hi backacha!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 06, 2008, 06:15:37 PM
3- All cell phone and internet correspondence of Joran, Paulus, Kalpoes, Croes, Lorenzo and Gottenbos.

I would include all the family phones of the above, especially the Gottenbos.  I would also include Guido and his family, as well as the family of GVC. 

How much internet traffic is there to the"BangBus" site from Aruba?  From the land/cell phones of interest?

How much cell phone traffic is there in the middle of the night from cell towers near the lighthouse?  Beach?  Payphone?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 06, 2008, 06:29:09 PM
I Pray this doesn't offend anyone...but I just wanted to share it....I thought it was funny...

First ever *Male* blond joke...


An Irishman, a Mexican and a Blonde Guy were doing construction work on scaffolding on the 20th floor of a building.

They were eating lunch and the Irishman said, "Corned beef and cabbage!
If I get corned beef and cabbage one more time for lunch, I'm going to jump off this building."

The Mexican opened his lunch box and exclaimed, "Burritos again! If I get burritos one more time I'm going to jump off, too."

The blonde man opened his lunch and said, " Bologna again! If I get a bologna sandwich one more time, I'm jumping too."

The next day, the Irishman opened his lunch box, saw corned beef and cabbage, and jumped to his death.

The Mexican opened his lunch, saw a burrito, and jumped, too.

The blonde guy opened his lunch, saw the bologna and jumped to his death as well.

At the funeral, the Irishman's wife was weeping.She said, "If I'd known how really tired he was of corned beef and cabbage, I never would have given it to him again!"

The Mexican man's wife also wept and said, "I could have given him tacos or enchiladas! I didn't realize he hated burritos so much."

Everyone turned and stared at the blonde man's wife. The blonde's wife said,...


"Don't look at me. He makes his own lunch ."


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 06, 2008, 06:40:00 PM
I cannot contend why Hans Mos  did not present Joran van der Sloot's yet to be revealed May 31, 2005 witness statement to the three panel judge who ruled that there was insufficient supporting evidence to support Joran's words on the video recording.  Obviously ... this must be Joran's declaration regarding Natalee "shaking".

Janet

+++++++++


February 15, 2008
Court of Appeal upholds lower judges decision not to detain J.v.d.S.
J.v.d.S remains prime suspect
Judicial investigation continues


The Court of Appeal announced by the end of yesterday, February 14th, 2008, its decision to uphold the refusal by the investigating judge to order pre-trial detention of J.v.d.S. in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The Office of the Public Prosecutor had requested such an order after the Peter R de Vries-tapes had been received by the Office and had been evaluated. Last week the Office appealed the ruling of refusal by the judge.

The reasons underlying the Courts decision are the following. The Court has seen the visual materials, has listened to the audio materials and has inspected the verbatim reports. Based on that, the Court is of the opinion that there is a lack of sufficient facts and circumstances substantiating serious grounds for the suspicion of the suspects involvement in the crimes for which he is being held responsible by the prosecution. The Court will generally be a bit more hesitant when it has to decide on a new request for pre-trial detention of a suspect, when that same suspect has been detained repeatedly before and there has been a considerable lapse of time.

J.v.d.S. has given extensive and detailed statements in Patrick van der Eems car, the undercover citizen who worked for Peter R. de Vries, on what happened during the night of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Nevertheless the Court sees various reasons not to accept the serious grounds of suspicion which are statutorily required for pre-trial detention. One of them is the history of contradictory statements by J.v.d.S., which were belied repeatedly by objective findings.

At this moment those parts of the statements made in Van der Eems car which contain new elements are not being underpinned by objective findings. Considering the possibility of a serious personality disorder as voiced by the prosecution combined with a personal history of untrue statements and remarks, which even according to the suspect himself are frequently false, the Court of Appeal has reasons for doubt regarding the incriminating character of the car-statements.

On the pre-trial detention issue the Code of criminal procedure does not provide for further appeals. The effect of the Court decision is that J.v.d.S. cannot be (re)arrested. The investigation of the Natalee Holloway case continues. J.v.d.S. is again the prime suspect.

At the end of the investigation the Office of the Public Prosecution will decide whether to charge or not.


John Kelly
On the Record w/ Greta
February 20, 2008


KELLY:  Let me throw one more thing in on that Greta.  On May 31st, Joran was the first person interviewed by Jacobs when he's taking statements. Every police report subsequent to that, the statements made by Deepak, made by Satish, made by Beth that day, we have them all, there is no statement from Joran until June 9th.
Unofficial Transcript - Heli (RU)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2622.msg353635;topicseen#msg353635

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Twi7-8OqS4


Beth Holloway
DATELINE
February 23, 2008


Beth Holloway: The facts are within 48 hours of Natalee's disappearance, a lead detective asked me if she had a history of epilepsy or seizures. Two and a half years later, the main suspect himself, admits that Natalee -- he felt as if she suffered an epilepsy or seizure. And he even indicates how she's shaking. So, if we look at just that one-- just that one piece, that's one thread out of a lot. Then, I have to say yes, there definitely was some collusion and corruption going on in the early days of Natalee's disappearance. Absolutely.
 
However, according to the prosecutor's office it's standard procedure to ask if a missing person might have a seizure disorder.

Police and prosecution officials declined on-camera interviews, but have consistently denied that there was any corruption, collusion or mishandling of the investigation.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/6/


Joran van der Sloot
ABC NEWS
February 3, 2008


In one taped conversation, van der Sloot told van der Eem that Holloway visibly convulsed "like a movie," that she was shaking "a lot."
 
"Did you try CPR on her?" asked van der Eem.
 
"Of course, I tried everything," van der Sloot said. "I tried to shake her. I was shaking the bitch. I was like, 'What is wrong with you man?' I almost wanted to cry. Why does this s*** have to happen to me?"

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=4222253&page


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 06, 2008, 06:45:37 PM
If Joran's May 31 witness statement was seen lying on a desk in pieces how can you produce what has already been int he trash for 3 years? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Altruist on April 06, 2008, 06:56:08 PM

they're still encouraging dangerous behavior on the hapless isle.  laughing, dancing, talking, and having fun on the beach is considered a legitimate reason for killing you and hiding your body. 
dennisintn

I'll have to disagree with you on the use of the word "killing" ~

May I suggest that some may make life changing and/or medical decisions based on physical symptoms without benefit of a medical degree/training?  Or perhaps the training to make these decisions is part of basic first aid learned in school? 

Maybe the hiding of the body is to encourage false hope in your family that you are still among the living? 

I will suggest that ANYBODY who took such actions & ANYBODY that participated with it's continuance HAS A SICK & TWISTED VALUE SYSTEM.  The enabling of such inappropriate behavior is barbaric & of extreme negative effect on any community & all of it's members especially youth.  In this case it has been multiplied as the story has global ramnifications.

When coverup became the modus operandi, accidental became void to any decent thinking human being, imo.  The presumption of accidental is void in full unless it physically can indeed be established leaving only intentional to be dealt with judicially & I suggest that no physical means of ability to justify the actions taken were available & it is only the attempt to allow an out to the guilty to attempt in any way to justify such vile actions because they feel entitled, that their offspring should be exempt from moral behavior,  instead of the remorse that would be expected & HAS NEVER BEEN DEMONSTRATED ONE IOTA in this horrible travesty that has been demonstrated.

If anybody in my family or friends was ever involved in this type of situation & it became known to myself my first action would be to TURN THEM IN, no hesitation & will admit that I judge others in this regard to be of inferior humanity.  The cruelty involved with treating any family with such disregard is inhumane & those that participate are entitled to be separated from society FOR A GOOD LONG TIME.  To do otherwise sends a very dangerous message of "no body, no crime" which should not be left to be repeated over & over & over again.  This kind of damage is not acceptable to a decent society, that we have learned in the USA & are attempting to correct through our pursuit of COLD CASES, a decent society protects its people IT DOESN'T LEAVE AVAILABLE TO IT'S CRIMINALS A LOOPHOLE that injures entire families & communities for lifetimes & beyond.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 06, 2008, 07:01:57 PM
If Joran's May 31 witness statement was seen lying on a desk in pieces how can you produce what has already been int he trash for 3 years? 

This is a very good question.  Why did the prosecutor refuse to give the lawyer for the two security guards the Dutch boy's statement?  IIRC, it was because his statement was not relevant to the case of her clients. 

Why was that?  What did the prosecutor do with this statement?  Who would likely receive copies of the statements?  Are they produced and stored on some kind of wordprocess/document system?

Who was the person who questioned him?  Who helped?  Where are the original notes?  IIRC, the PV is not a transcript, it is more of a summary produced by law enforcement.  Did the person putting the PV together take notes?  Perhaps they save the notes?  Or, they remember?  Were they ever questioned?  Who typed them up?

Who was on the distribution list for the statements?

I was looking for the quote from the security guys lawyers and found this -

Quote
GRACE: Let`s go to the Twitty family attorney, Helen Lejuez. Welcome, Helen. Now, you`re a former prosecutor in Aruba. Helen, tell me, how do you get wiretaps there in Aruba? Is it pursuant to warrant? And also, what sort of new evidence, Helen, do you think prosecutors are referring to?

HELEN LEJUEZ, TWITTY FAMILY ATTORNEY: I don`t think this has to do with a lot of wiretapping. I do believe it has to do with bringing forth the new evidence. It has to do with the case approaching the 60 days and that they are adding new evidence so they can have the case going.

GRACE: OK, what new evidence, Helen?

LEJUEZ: The rape case.

GRACE: OK. You said new evidence. What "new evidence" regarding Natalee Holloway do you think prosecutors have?

LEJUEZ: Right now, they`re talking about a gang rape. So when we talk about a gang rape, we talk about a gang. The gang consisted of three of them. Right?

GRACE: Right.

LEJUEZ: Even though -- even though maybe it`s not out that the other suspect that`s in jail right now will be added to the gang, he is part of the gang.

GRACE: OK, let me go quickly back to Jossy Mansur with "Diario." Jossy, our sources say that we do believe wiretaps were involved. Jossy, are you hearing the same information?

MANSUR: About wiretapping?

GRACE: Yes.

MANSUR: No. No, I haven`t.

GRACE: Well, then, what do you that is the new evidence?

MANSUR: I just said it, and I`ll explain it again. From what I understand from the sources that we have at the newspaper, the police went back to square one. They know they have a tough case to prove at this point, a murder, first degree or whatever. Then they went back. They went to square one. They reviewed everything that was on the table, and then they decided that with the evidence they already have, that it`s based on the admissions that all three of them made to the police during those days of interrogation, that they have a sufficiently strong case to re-arrest them and take them to court on charges of sexual assault.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/26/ng.01.html

Where are all these things?  Are their copies of original PVs?  Original recordings of questioning that could be reviewed?  A review of the van conversation? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: texasmom on April 06, 2008, 07:05:55 PM
 ::MonkeyHaHa:: Destiny!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 06, 2008, 07:09:03 PM
I made one more

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/COLLECTIONOFVANSREVISED1.jpg)

1 VAN ROLLED OVER YESTERDAY - TAKELWAGEN - 24 ORA (4-6-2008)

2 VAN AT TIERRA DEL SOL - FOUND BY MANY

3 VAN - UNDISCLOSED LOCATION FOUND BY DEBRA / ??? AND A MATCH FOR MAKE AND MODEL FOR VAN #2 - NOT NECESSARILY THE MISSING VAN

4 VAN IN VIDEO WITH PETER DE VRIES WHILE HE WAS ON ARUBA AND IT WAS ROLLING BY - FOUND BE ME - NOT NECESSARILY MISSING VAN

5 REFERENCE VAN FOUND BY ANONYMOUS AND FORWARDED TO EASYWRITER AND THEN FORWARDED TO ME - NOT NECESSARILY MISSING VAN

6 VAN AT DEATH OF AMERICAN TOURIST AT MILL RESORT - 24 ORA - MATCH FOR VAN #5 - FOUND BY ME - POSSIBLE MISSING VAN

7 VAN ON SIDE OF MARRIOTT - FOUND BY CARPE NOCTEM - NOT SURE WHICH VAN THIS MATCHES

*Older ALE van most likely replaced with newer model seen at Mill Resort*

All my opinion.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 06, 2008, 07:56:37 PM
If Joran's May 31 witness statement was seen lying on a desk in pieces how can you produce what has already been int he trash for 3 years? 

Exactly!

Lala'sMom ... I was just being the Devil's advocate.

However ... in February, 2008 ... if Jug and Beth's contentions were that Dennis Jacobs had interrogated them both on June 1, 2005 in regards to "seizures" and ... Joran was claiming in the Devries' video recording that Natalee was "shaking" ... I would assume that the Judges who were ruling whether or not to detain Joran ... would have requested Joran's May 31, 2005 witness statement.

I assume that Hans Mos  would have presented Joran's signedJune 9, 2005 suspect statement to the three judge panel ... the statement where he makes reference to his May 31, 2005 interrogation.

I assume that Hans Mos would have presented Paulus' June 23, 2005 suspect statement to the three judge panel ... the statement where he declare that he picked up Joran from school and drove him to the Bubali Police Station for interrogation.

Janet

++++++++++++

Beth Twitty
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
September 14, 2005


TWITTY: Well, Rita, like I said, weve been worried as early as June 1 when we saw torn statements at a police station. Weve had falsified documents. I mean, weve seen key elements omitted from uniformed police officers statements. Weve had a D.E.A. whose statement was never taken.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9354188/


Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE
Page 76


The detective takes a seat at his desk and sorts through some papers before getting ready to type at his computer keyboard.  It's quiet.  I am very cold, waiting for him to begin.  As I stare at the torn documents on the table, the words Joran van der Sloot jump right off one of the ripped pager at me and pierce my eyes.  It's Joran's witness statement, torn up, lying in plain view.   So he has been here.  He has given his statement.  It has been destroyed for some reason.  Did he change his mind?   Can you even do that?  Did someone come along and decide it wasn't in Joran's best interest to go on record about what happened to Natalee?  I wonder if the father, Paulus, has been here.  It's disarming.  And I have so many questions about this pile of torn papers.  But I don't know enough about law -- certainly not Dutch law -- to underatand what it might mean to destroy a witness statement.


Joran van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 9, 2005


May 31, 2005

Then my father explained to Bob that I had been the last person that was seen with the girl and that I had to go and make a statement to the police.  At approximately 11.15 am my father and me left the school grounds and we went to the police station in Bubali.

<snipped>

At approximately 16.00 pm, we were finished at the police station in Bubali.


Paulus Van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 23, 2005


May 31, 2005

The mother of the girl by that time had already left. At least I did not see her anymore. We were dropped off home by the officers. It was starting to get light.

<snipped>
 
We then departed for the police station in Bubali where we
arrived at approximately 11.00 hours. Jacobs and Kelly took down Joran's statement.

At approximately 14.00 hours Joran signed his statement ...

++++++++


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 06, 2008, 07:57:15 PM

they're still encouraging dangerous behavior on the hapless isle.  laughing, dancing, talking, and having fun on the beach is considered a legitimate reason for killing you and hiding your body. 
dennisintn

I'll have to disagree with you on the use of the word "killing" ~

May I suggest that some may make life changing and/or medical decisions based on physical symptoms without benefit of a medical degree/training?  Or perhaps the training to make these decisions is part of basic first aid learned in school? 

Maybe the hiding of the body is to encourage false hope in your family that you are still among the living? 

I will suggest that ANYBODY who took such actions & ANYBODY that participated with it's continuance HAS A SICK & TWISTED VALUE SYSTEM.  The enabling of such inappropriate behavior is barbaric & of extreme negative effect on any community & all of it's members especially youth.  In this case it has been multiplied as the story has global ramnifications.

When coverup became the modus operandi, accidental became void to any decent thinking human being, imo.  The presumption of accidental is void in full unless it physically can indeed be established leaving only intentional to be dealt with judicially & I suggest that no physical means of ability to justify the actions taken were available & it is only the attempt to allow an out to the guilty to attempt in any way to justify such vile actions because they feel entitled, that their offspring should be exempt from moral behavior,  instead of the remorse that would be expected & HAS NEVER BEEN DEMONSTRATED ONE IOTA in this horrible travesty that has been demonstrated.

If anybody in my family or friends was ever involved in this type of situation & it became known to myself my first action would be to TURN THEM IN, no hesitation & will admit that I judge others in this regard to be of inferior humanity.  The cruelty involved with treating any family with such disregard is inhumane & those that participate are entitled to be separated from society FOR A GOOD LONG TIME.  To do otherwise sends a very dangerous message of "no body, no crime" which should not be left to be repeated over & over & over again.  This kind of damage is not acceptable to a decent society, that we have learned in the USA & are attempting to correct through our pursuit of COLD CASES, a decent society protects its people IT DOESN'T LEAVE AVAILABLE TO IT'S CRIMINALS A LOOPHOLE that injures entire families & communities for lifetimes & beyond.

I believe there should be a balance between the rights of victims and the rights of criminals.  I believe that criminals learn to manipulate the system (any system) over time to their benefit, and to the detriment of victims.  mo

I believe that over time, re-balancing is necessary.

What is the value of a criminal justice system that is incapable of appropriately addressing the criminal element that exists in any society?

What happens when a society fails to acknowledge conflicting interests that may exist in their criminal justice system?

What happens when crime ceases to exist in the eyes of the judicial system?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 06, 2008, 08:11:32 PM
Under Dutch civil law what is there to prevent a person from simply replying they don't remember or don't know?  What is there to stop all the Sloots from having major memory loss at the opportune moment?  This would prevent any hope of discovery if they refuse to cooperate...not that they have ever done so before.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 06, 2008, 08:29:28 PM
Under Dutch civil law what is there to prevent a person from simply replying they don't remember or don't know?  What is there to stop all the Sloots from having major memory loss at the opportune moment?  This would prevent any hope of discovery if they refuse to cooperate...not that they have ever done so before.

That is a serious questions.  IIRC, Joran verified that his father doesn't remember what clothing he may have worn the day before.  There was something else as well.  Don't remember where it was in the transcripts, but it was the reason Joran had given for their statements not matching.  Dad's memory wasn't so good.  imo


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: San on April 06, 2008, 08:31:22 PM
Wouldn't they have to produce videos of their interrogations.  By law Aruba was suppose to video the interrogations.  Where are they?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 06, 2008, 08:55:27 PM
Under Dutch civil law what is there to prevent a person from simply replying they don't remember or don't know?  What is there to stop all the Sloots from having major memory loss at the opportune moment?  This would prevent any hope of discovery if they refuse to cooperate...not that they have ever done so before.

That is a serious questions.  IIRC, Joran verified that his father doesn't remember what clothing he may have worn the day before.  There was something else as well.  Don't remember where it was in the transcripts, but it was the reason Joran had given for their statements not matching.  Dad's memory wasn't so good.  imo


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=193.0

From BFN

PROCES VERBAAL

We, Ghrizanti Anuar TROMP and Marcelino Antonio Gregory RAS respectively officer and officer first class with the Korps Politie Aruba and both attached to the Robbery Project Team (Atraco Team) declare the following.

On June 24th 2005, at approximately 10.00 hours, we, the reporting officers, went to the correctional facility Aruba to pick up suspect "Joran Andreas Petrus van der SLOOT" to be questioned.

There we, the reporting officers, were informed by the watch-commander on duty of the KIA that the suspect J.A.P. van der SLOOT refused to go with us.

The suspect J.A.P. van der SLOOT talked to us subsequently, and informed us that he did not want to go with us to the police station in Oranjestad to make a statement.

The suspect J.A.P. van der SLOOT gave us as a reason:

- he would only go with us, the reporting officers if is father was released;

- that his mother and his lawyer had advised him on behalf of his father to not make any more statements and to invoke his right to not make statements;

- that he would receive a message from his father's lawyer when he should make statements;

- that according to his lawyer, if he would stop making statements, his father would be released in two days;

- that he listens to his families advise;

- that the lawyers "Antonio CARLO" and "OOMEN" are good friends of his father

- that these two lawyers out of friendship with is father would defend them

- that he know that if he would make a statement he could bring his father into trouble

- that his father suffers from bad memory and that because of that his and his fathers statements would not correspond

- that his father even can't remember what kind of clothes he himself wore the day before

- that his lawyer had said that the police arrested his father because according to the police his father had picked him up in the late night hours of May 30th 2005 at McDonalds

- that he wished the police would leave his friends and family alone/stop bothering his family and friends

- that he would only answer new questions asked by investigators

- that his lawyer had advised him only to make statements in his presence

- that his lawyer had started a lawsuit so that he would only make a statement with the lawyer present

- that he wouldn't come with us today because his mother would be visiting him at 14.00 hours that day

- that if he gets a visit from his mother he would discuss making another statement with her

- that only if his father, by way of his lawyer would say he should make a statement he would do so

- that he was waiting for the statement of his father and after that make another statement.

Of this, we, the reporting officers, on our oath of office, have made this proces-verbaal, closed and signed in Oranjestad on June 24th 2005.

The reporting officers,

S.A. TROMP M.A.G. RAS


DUTCH:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/SM%20Property/JV0624A-1.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/SM%20Property/JV0624A-2.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/SM%20Property/JV0624A-3.jpg


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 06, 2008, 09:46:08 PM
All we need to end the night is a review of the "I Can't Remember" video by Klass...

 ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 06, 2008, 09:50:49 PM
All we need to end the night is a review of the "I Can't Remember" video by Klass...

 ::MonkeyDance::

You mean this one?

http://www.youtube.com/v/SiVKwLpsza0&hl=en


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 06, 2008, 09:54:14 PM
Wouldn't they have to produce videos of their interrogations.  By law Aruba was suppose to video the interrogations.  Where are they?

IIRC, from RWV in the early days, there was a poster (or more than one) that claimed that the videos/recording equipment was installed just for this case.  Prior to that, no recordings were made of interrogations. 

This was to ensure that JVDS was not mistreated.  I think there were a number of reasons.  To protect him from ALE that may not like him (or any other suspect).  To protect the judicial process, to show that he was not being coerced, etc.  To prevent any evidence obtained from being thrown out.

It was interesting at the time, because the poster viewed this as a kind of favoritism.  Other individuals were not given this consideration.  This was considered a special treatment, installed just for JVDS.

I believe, from memory, that KJ made some statement at Hasibokos (now gone) that suggested it was to protect the integrity of the investigation.

I believe somewhere (Joran's book?) that he said his legal team/family got access to all the recordings sometime that summer.  Was everything the Kalpoes said relevant to his case?  Other witnesses and suspects?

Why weren't JVDS statements relevant to the case of the two security guards?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 06, 2008, 09:56:39 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/hUZRVV1klek&hl=en



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 06, 2008, 09:57:42 PM
I saved a bit from Hasibokos before the restructuring -

Quote
Latest developments in The Netherlands (Thursday) Hasibokos.com followed NOVA again on Wednesday as they interviewed chief prosecutor Karin Janssen. She commented on the interview that Anita and Paul van der Sloot gave the day before. In Tuesdays interview  Anita van der Sloot told the reporter that Joran has been facing (mentally) brutal interrogation sessions. She told NOVA that , as has already been reported, they called Joran a murderer and threaten to physically hurt him (if only the law permitted that.). Anita also said that the picture of Natalee had been shoved in Jorans face a few times  With regard to this declaration Janssen told the reporter that the interrogations are conducted lawfully. She said that all interrogations are being recorded so, if it comes to it, in court the judge can see for himself how all interrogations have been conducted. She added that naturally they try to put as much pressure as possible on suspects but it is all within limits of the law.  She also admitted that pictures of  Natalee were shown to the suspects, but said that it was normal for pictures to be used/shown during the interrogation process. In yesterdays interview Paul van der Sloot said that he did not instruct the young suspects not to talk, but explained the judicial procedure to them so that they would know what to expect and not panic. With regard to this statement Janssen said that through their investigation they learned that Paul van der Sloot told the boys a few days after the disappearance of  Natalee (not to worry because) there is no crime without a body and consequently there will be no case. So Paul allegedly said something like : No body, no crime, and  Janssen is certain that this has affected the investigation drastically and caused the suspects to keep their mouths sealed because they know that as long as nothing is found they cant be blamed for anything. Finally she said that they are at a crucial point in the investigation and hope for a breakthrough soon. Click here to see the Dutch interview.

http://www.hasibokos.com/hbknews/default.asp?view=day&blogDate=6/11/2005


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 06, 2008, 10:01:36 PM
Hello All   ::MonkeyCool::

My trip is complete and thanks for all the warm wishes..It is greatly appreciated as I made it safely and even got my internet hooked up the first day in my new house on a sunday!! ::MonkeyWink::

Could someone update me on anything new? TIA


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 06, 2008, 10:02:36 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/hUZRVV1klek&hl=en

Thanks, I don't remember seeing this one.

I was thinking of an older one, where PVDS is the subject of "I can't remember".


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 06, 2008, 10:05:46 PM
There was another nugget in that old Hasibokos.com site -

Quote
Hasibokos.com has also learned that the Aruban justice minister, Rudy Croes, requested the Dutch government to get involved  and defend the Aruban authorities who are conducting the case. According to Croes since the disappearance of Natelee Holloway, Aruba is being portrayed as a criminal paradise with a useless judicial system by the media. As Croes sees it, the reputation of both Aruba and The Netherlands are at stake here and he fears that this would have a negative long term effect on the Aruban tourism development.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: private eye on April 06, 2008, 10:06:25 PM

they're still encouraging dangerous behavior on the hapless isle.  laughing, dancing, talking, and having fun on the beach is considered a legitimate reason for killing you and hiding your body. 
dennisintn

I'll have to disagree with you on the use of the word "killing" ~

May I suggest that some may make life changing and/or medical decisions based on physical symptoms without benefit of a medical degree/training?  Or perhaps the training to make these decisions is part of basic first aid learned in school? 

Maybe the hiding of the body is to encourage false hope in your family that you are still among the living? 

I believe in calling a spade a spade, and Aruba's callous disregard of human life as it relates the to lives of the power's to be cordones killing as an insignificant elimination of a problem, and is so prevalent as to make the hitting of a policeman a minor event, the hanging of an individual who is found with their hand in their pocket a reportable event that isn't questioned, and the confession of an individual claiming to have  shook the bitch as his means of verifying her alive or dead and then dumping her in the ocean knowing that she might be alive not a crime. They kill with impunity and without remorse. People other than the powers to be are insignificant inanimate objects. One day, their is going to be a group of tourist who arrive on that island, and demonstrate to these very people, just how precious life is, by bringing the practice home to roost, as the Rev. Anderson would say. Life will become precious if it is theirs is my bet.

Killing is a harsh word, one Aruba likes to stay away from, but withholding treatment is not only killing but is torture.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: texasmom on April 06, 2008, 10:07:22 PM
Hello All   ::MonkeyCool::

My trip is complete and thanks for all the warm wishes..It is greatly appreciated as I made it safely and even got my internet hooked up the first day in my new house on a sunday!! ::MonkeyWink::

Could someone update me on anything new? TIA

 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::
Glad you're back and that the move went well!  Joran's "Daury" may be in some trouble in the US, DEA investigation going on.  Not a lot of details yet.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 06, 2008, 10:08:40 PM
Hello All   ::MonkeyCool::

My trip is complete and thanks for all the warm wishes..It is greatly appreciated as I made it safely and even got my internet hooked up the first day in my new house on a sunday!! ::MonkeyWink::

Could someone update me on anything new? TIA

*******!  Hi..good to see you!  Have you started the new job yet?

Nothing new except the civil case in the NL.  The media in the US still hasn't picked up on it.  Patrick has an update on his website:

http://patrickvandereem.nl/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 06, 2008, 10:09:48 PM
Hi Private Eye, good to see you too!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 06, 2008, 10:12:37 PM
Hello All   ::MonkeyCool::

My trip is complete and thanks for all the warm wishes..It is greatly appreciated as I made it safely and even got my internet hooked up the first day in my new house on a sunday!! ::MonkeyWink::

Could someone update me on anything new? TIA

 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::
Glad you're back and that the move went well!  Joran's "Daury" may be in some trouble in the US, DEA investigation going on.  Not a lot of details yet.

 ::MonkeyEek:: Hi TM!! Hmmmm..I wonder who this Daury is? Thanks!  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 06, 2008, 10:12:51 PM
Here are a few interesting things I saved as well ~

Quote
UPDATE 30:The latest updates in the Natalee Holloway case concerns mostly reports on the van der Sloot family. The media has been reporting widely that Paul van der Sloot has been questioned by police on Saturday and Sunday. Police superintendent Jan van der Straaten affirmed that van der Sloot was purely questioned as a witness, no more or no less, but the fact remains that Paul van der Sloot has also been suspended from his duties as judge-in-training by the court of the Dutch Antilles and Aruba. Also according to a recent article in AD, The mother of  Joran van der Sloot, Anita, stated that the intention was to send Joran to the United States so he could continue with his studies there. So if this case had not taken place, Joran would have been in the United States right now arranging his personal affairs to establish himself there for the next few years. So this case is affecting the van der Sloot family as a whole, but the fact that Joran has not collaborated truthfully until now (considering the fact that he and the brothers Kalpoe have been changing there testimonies numerous times) is certainly not helping. The latest story Hasibokos.com got from Joran is what the ex-suspect Abraham Jones told his attorney after he had spoken to van der Sloot who was in cel next to him (Update 21). According to Abraham Jones, Joran said that he caught a ride home with the Kapoe brothers when he left CNC and that Natalee was in the car a that time. On the other hand,  in recent interview conducted by FoxNews this weekend with students who were part of the group that went to Aruba, they indicated that Joran was seen dancing with Natalee in CNC and was consequently also seen leaving with him.  The students also indicated that Joran was seen frequently (sometimes in company of Natalee) at the Casino of their hotel. These conflicting stories are causing chaos, hindering the developments in solving the case and also burdening all the families Holloway, van der Sloot, Kalpoe and recently Croes who are all personally affected by this case.


Quote
UPDATE 29: Hasibokos.com has just received information and confirmation that there has been an additional arrest in the Natalee Holloway case. We can also inform that Hasibokos.com has received information that indicates that the Aruban court is leaning towards extending the arrest of the 3 young suspects without charging them officially for a crime. We also learned that the prime minister of Aruba, Nelson Oduber, is facing a lot of criticism for his personal involvement in the case. Yesterday Andin Bikker of the political party Democrasia Real, criticized the prime minister publicly for coming forward and getting himself personally involved in the Holloway case. According to Bikker, the prime minister should abstain himself from personal involvement in all judicial cases and let the justice department do his job. Bikker relates the arrest of the (recently released) security guards directly to the pressure that has been put on the justice department to quickly find someone to blame/prosecute. Bikker also criticized the prime minister for his poor ability to express himself in the English language. Bikker advised the prime minister to take an English language course.


Quote
HBK-NOTE: Interesting fact.
The title of the petition proposed by various US radio stations is BAN ARUBA. Did you know that in Papiamentu, ban means to go to ? So in Papiamentu if you say to someone: Ban Aruba, you are actually saying: Lets go to Aruba. Our guess is that the people behind the proposal did not think/know of that, otherwise they would have definitely chosen a synonym for the word ban or use a different title.
Just a note !

According to reports from travel agents, many North American and European tourists who booked a vacation to Aruba have switched to other holiday destinations .Yesterday Bill O'Reilly talked to Define from the Russ and Dee Show who is proposing the boycott of Aruba. On the website of the station, visitors can sign a petition online to ban Aruba. When the Aruban community heard of this proposition they became enraged. The local media of Aruba is asking the Aruban community to send e-mails to Define and condemn her proposition. The Arubans know that a successful boycott will hurt the local economy, but they are also certain that a boycott will hurt all the (American) airline companies that fly to Aruba and also the American hotel and fastfood chains that have a prominent presence on the island.

Quote
UPDATE 21:The attorney of the suspect Abraham Jones, Chris Lejuez, spoke in a live broadcast Monday afternoon and he confirmed personally what his client told him recently. This interview was conducted in Papiamentu and Hasibokos.com has compiled a summary of Lejuez' statements: Lejuez stated that his client did not know Joran van der Sloot before he saw him in his neighbouring cel. As Jones saw Joran crying in his cel, he did not know the reason why he was behind bars. Lejuez explained that he has no reason to doubt the story that his client told him. This is mainly because since his arrest, Jones has been secluded and Lejuez is conviced that Jones did not know about Joran until recently. Lejuez went on to say that Joran van der Sloot told his client that he did not go to the lighthouse with the Kalpoe brothers. Joran told Abraham Jones that after he left Carlos N Charlies, he caught a ride home with the Kalpoe brothers and Natalee Holloway who was also in the car. Joran insists that the Kalpoes dropped him off at his home and drove off with Natalee in the car. It was only afterwards (a few days later), around the swimming pool at his house, that the Kalpoes made plans to come out with one version of the events. It has not been confirmed weather Joran has a swimming pool at his house. This could prove to be a crucial fact, because if Jones has never met Joran before he couldnt have possibly known that Joran has a swimming pool at his home unless Joran had actually told him that. What makes the recent story of Joran van der Sloot interesting is that fact that he is saying now that he was dropped off at home and did not see Natalee after that. But he still collaborated with the Kalpoes afterwards as they allegedly conferred at his house around the pool.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: texasmom on April 06, 2008, 10:13:37 PM
For ******* and anyone else that missed it, there is also a post in the S/S thread prior to this by capslockwizard about it.

http://misdaad.aktueel.nu/doorbraak_in_zaak_holloway.html

Quote
MISDAAD.AKTUEEL.NU
 
Nieuws vanaf Aruba. Ik doel daarbij niet op het gezinsdrama in Santa Cruz waarbij een drugsverslaafde zijn ouders en broer ombracht, maar op de zaak Natalee Holloway.
Alle hoop van het team dat de bekentenissen van Joran van der Sloot onderzoekt is gevestigd op een spoortje dat leidt naar een man, die wegens een drugsdelict vastzit in de Verenigde Staten. De politie heeft aanwijzingen dat hij wellicht de persoon is die het bootje heeft gevaren waarmee Natalee naar open zee is gebracht. De komende tijd moet duidelijk worden of het een heet spoor is of een dwaalspoor. Maar uit het feit dat het gaat om een zogeheten embargo-onderzoek (onderzoek dat nauwlettend wordt afgeschermd, ook voor collega-politiemensen) kan worden opgemaakt dat de informatie behoorlijk serieus wordt genomen. Zou de Daury dan toch bestaan?

A rough translation:

Quote
Breakthrough in Holloway Case?

News from Aruba. I dont mean the family tragedy in Santa Crux were a drugs addict killed his parents and brother, but I mean the Holloway case.
The team of detectives, investigating the confessions of Joran v.d. Sloot, is tracing a man being lockup in the USA for a drugs crime. The police have indications he might be the one driving the little boat taking Natalee to the open sea. In the coming days it has to become clear weather this is a hot track or a wrong track.
But from the fact it the track is treated as a so called embargo-investigation (an investigation carefully separated, even for colleague police-officers), the conclusion could be taken that this information is rather serious.
Is it possible that after all this Daury really exists?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 06, 2008, 10:16:06 PM
I haven't looked at the old Hasibokos stuff in a long time.  Here is one last piece ~

Quote
The story was published by  a couple of newspapers in The Netherlands yesterday and today. You can view one of the Dutch reports here in Haagsche Courant (local newspaper of The Hague)

The media in The Netherlands has picked up the story about the arrest of Paul van der Sloot on Friday. They reported the following:

Justitie verdenkt de Nederlandse rechter Paul van der S. (53) van het medeplegen van moord, doodslag of ontvoering met de dood tot gevolg. (Read Dutch article here )

Translation:
The justice department suspects the Dutch judge, Paul van der S. (53), of accessory to murder, manslaughter or kidnapping with dead as consequence.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 06, 2008, 10:18:53 PM
Hello All   ::MonkeyCool::

My trip is complete and thanks for all the warm wishes..It is greatly appreciated as I made it safely and even got my internet hooked up the first day in my new house on a sunday!! ::MonkeyWink::

Could someone update me on anything new? TIA

*******!  Hi..good to see you!  Have you started the new job yet?

Nothing new except the civil case in the NL.  The media in the US still hasn't picked up on it.  Patrick has an update on his website:

http://patrickvandereem.nl/

Hi! Great to see you and everyone else I see online right now  ::MonkeyDance:: Man..That was a Marathon trip!! I start work tommorow and I am already in my new place..I can't help but have a huuuuge smile on my face right now as I love my new home! I most certainly will never ever miss Providence Rhode Island and thank god I made the move..I may have to pinch myself tomorrow as I am in paradise compared to thatr place and my new employer even payed the way!! Dreams to come true! Well sometimes  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Pita on April 06, 2008, 10:21:21 PM
I think Mr. Kermit has read my thoughts!  I see him here.  I have been looking for AHATA officer listings for 2004 and 2005, and I thought I remembered Mr. Kermit posting something like that long ago......  Do I remember correctly?  Or would someone else have that information for me to compare?  Thanks in advance!

Hi everyone!   :smt006

The Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association General Assembly Elects
A New Board for AHATA
A.M. Digital
12/05/2005

The Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association voted in a new board at its general assembly which took place at the Radisson Aruba Resort & Casino.

The owner of the Wyndham Aruba Resort Spa & Casino, businessman Alfonso Riveroll, became the new Chairman of the Board for the Association.

Fellow hotelier Ewald Biemans, Bucuti Beach Resort & Tara Suites, became 1st Vice Chair while Warren Stanley, Atlantis Adventure assumed the role of 2nd Vice Chair. Marriott General Manager Rick Zeolla will serve as Treasurer of the Association and Alex Nieuwmeyer, Divi & Tamarijn Beach Resort accepted responsibilities as the boards Secretary.

Board members voted in are businessman Eduardo de Veer, Renaissance/Meta Corp; Banker Bill Carson, Caribbean Mercantile Bank; hotelier Scott Allen, Hyatt Regency; Director Peter Steinmetz, Aruba Airport Authority; Public Relations official David Smith, Valero Oil Refinery, Lisette Malmberg, De Palm Tours and hotelier Werner Hein, Occidental Resort.

The election process was assisted by Dr. Ryan Peterson, Universidad di Aruba, attorney Antonio Carlo and Marlene Purcell, Salamander Holdings under the supervision of consultant Jaap Beaujon.

The new board is seen here in the picture with members of the outgoing board and Jorge Pesquera AHATAs President and CEO.

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2005_12_04_archive.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: hotping on April 06, 2008, 10:22:43 PM
Hi *******...Very Good to see You and its Great to hear that You are sooo Happy....Congratulations on the New Job and New Home!  ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: texasmom on April 06, 2008, 10:25:33 PM
I think Mr. Kermit has read my thoughts!  I see him here.  I have been looking for AHATA officer listings for 2004 and 2005, and I thought I remembered Mr. Kermit posting something like that long ago......  Do I remember correctly?  Or would someone else have that information for me to compare?  Thanks in advance!

Hi everyone!   :smt006

The Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association General Assembly Elects
A New Board for AHATA
A.M. Digital
12/05/2005

The Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association voted in a new board at its general assembly which took place at the Radisson Aruba Resort & Casino.

The owner of the Wyndham Aruba Resort Spa & Casino, businessman Alfonso Riveroll, became the new Chairman of the Board for the Association.

Fellow hotelier Ewald Biemans, Bucuti Beach Resort & Tara Suites, became 1st Vice Chair while Warren Stanley, Atlantis Adventure assumed the role of 2nd Vice Chair. Marriott General Manager Rick Zeolla will serve as Treasurer of the Association and Alex Nieuwmeyer, Divi & Tamarijn Beach Resort accepted responsibilities as the boards Secretary.

Board members voted in are businessman Eduardo de Veer, Renaissance/Meta Corp; Banker Bill Carson, Caribbean Mercantile Bank; hotelier Scott Allen, Hyatt Regency; Director Peter Steinmetz, Aruba Airport Authority; Public Relations official David Smith, Valero Oil Refinery, Lisette Malmberg, De Palm Tours and hotelier Werner Hein, Occidental Resort.

The election process was assisted by Dr. Ryan Peterson, Universidad di Aruba, attorney Antonio Carlo and Marlene Purcell, Salamander Holdings under the supervision of consultant Jaap Beaujon.

The new board is seen here in the picture with members of the outgoing board and Jorge Pesquera AHATAs President and CEO.

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2005_12_04_archive.html
Thanks Pita!  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 06, 2008, 10:27:17 PM
Hi *******.  Hi Private Eye.

I have missed you both.

******* ... all the best in your new home and ... that new job.

 ::MonkeyDance::

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: private eye on April 06, 2008, 10:27:27 PM
Aruba views all tourists as sheep, and one day they are going to attack what they think is an unsuspecting sheep, only to find it is a lion in sheeps clothing.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Pita on April 06, 2008, 10:32:33 PM
Hello All   ::MonkeyCool::

My trip is complete and thanks for all the warm wishes..It is greatly appreciated as I made it safely and even got my internet hooked up the first day in my new house on a sunday!! ::MonkeyWink::

Could someone update me on anything new? TIA

Welcome back *******!   ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: hotping on April 06, 2008, 10:33:44 PM
Aruba views all tourists as sheep, and one day they are going to attack what they think is an unsuspecting sheep, only to find it is a lion in sheeps clothing.
Yep!  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 06, 2008, 10:33:49 PM
Aruba views all tourists as sheep, and one day they are going to attack what they think is an unsuspecting sheep, only to find it is a lion in sheeps clothing.
Yep  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 06, 2008, 10:34:05 PM
Aruba views all tourists as sheep, and one day they are going to attack what they think is an unsuspecting sheep, only to find it is a lion in sheeps clothing.

Actually they call the Tourist Cattle  ::MonkeyWink:: There days are numbered PI and they know it..

Hi Janet,PI,Hotping,Klaas,Rob,WhiskeyG.Klaas,Pita,Magnolia and everyone else I see...It's great to be back!  ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: private eye on April 06, 2008, 10:34:33 PM
hello janet and *******. i have had the pleasure of my youngest daughter so I have been distracted but I have tried to keep up. it is quiet now, but I haven't heard the fat lady sing yet, and I apologize beth for that phrase, but slim as you are, you are the fat lady in this production. i don't know what, but i would bet my life that beth is working on some big publicity event for aruba that will spotlight their true colors. so have faith, and stay tune:)))) i am wore out from waiting on my grown independent child and am going to be. I thought about having an emancipation party for my daughter as I don't think she realizes she is grown and independent now. or somebody told her the age of emancipation was 30 and not 21, or 18:) but i love it:)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: private eye on April 06, 2008, 10:35:47 PM
ooooooooops and klaas and everyone else by all means my apologies:)))))))


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: texasmom on April 06, 2008, 10:43:20 PM
hello janet and *******. i have had the pleasure of my youngest daughter so I have been distracted but I have tried to keep up. it is quiet now, but I haven't heard the fat lady sing yet, and I apologize beth for that phrase, but slim as you are, you are the fat lady in this production. i don't know what, but i would bet my life that beth is working on some big publicity event for aruba that will spotlight their true colors. so have faith, and stay tune:)))) i am wore out from waiting on my grown independent child and am going to be. I thought about having an emancipation party for my daughter as I don't think she realizes she is grown and independent now. or somebody told her the age of emancipation was 30 and not 21, or 18:) but i love it:)
I hope you had a great time with your daughter, we're glad you're back!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 06, 2008, 10:47:13 PM
Congratz *******!!! I'm happy you are happy!!! ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 06, 2008, 10:57:44 PM
Congratz *******!!! I'm happy you are happy!!! ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thanks! I will be even happier when I see Joran and his Father where they belong!! It's gonna happen dude..I just know it... ::MonkeyWink:: It's just taking forever :( 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 06, 2008, 11:06:35 PM
Hi *******.  Hi Private Eye.

I have missed you both.

******* ... all the best in your new home and ... that new job.

 ::MonkeyDance::

Janet

Man..We have some great people here!! I missed you guys! I'm gonna check the Aruban papers and wish you all a good night as I am exhausted! Keep the faith..Justice will prevail...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on April 06, 2008, 11:09:15 PM
I just happened to catch the second half of the finale of 'Here's the Newlyweds' or something like that on ABC.  Those couples voted off had to vote for one of the 2 remaining couples to win $465,000.  Those who were voted off, however, were awarded a trip to Aruba...at the Radisson.  I think it had to be at least 8 couples...not sure.   ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 06, 2008, 11:09:32 PM
hello janet and *******. i have had the pleasure of my youngest daughter so I have been distracted but I have tried to keep up. it is quiet now, but I haven't heard the fat lady sing yet, and I apologize beth for that phrase, but slim as you are, you are the fat lady in this production. i don't know what, but i would bet my life that beth is working on some big publicity event for aruba that will spotlight their true colors. so have faith, and stay tune:)))) i am wore out from waiting on my grown independent child and am going to be. I thought about having an emancipation party for my daughter as I don't think she realizes she is grown and independent now. or somebody told her the age of emancipation was 30 and not 21, or 18:) but i love it:)


 ::MonkeyShocked::

You can whisper to me what is up.   It will be just between you and me.  I promise not to tell the other Monkeys.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Private Eye ... family is where it is at.  Enjoy!

Janet



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 06, 2008, 11:12:36 PM
I just happened to catch the second half of the finale of 'Here's the Newlyweds' or something like that on ABC.  Those couples voted off had to vote for one of the 2 remaining couples to win $465,000.  Those who were voted off, however, were awarded a trip to Aruba...at the Radisson.  I think it had to be at least 8 couples...not sure.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Like I said before, pretty soon the only tourists in Aruba will be there on Freebees  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 06, 2008, 11:16:22 PM
Klaas ... would you please delete "reply 254".  I messed up Private Eye's post.

Thank you

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on April 06, 2008, 11:16:47 PM
I just happened to catch the second half of the finale of 'Here's the Newlyweds' or something like that on ABC.  Those couples voted off had to vote for one of the 2 remaining couples to win $465,000.  Those who were voted off, however, were awarded a trip to Aruba...at the Radisson.  I think it had to be at least 8 couples...not sure.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Like I said before, pretty soon the only tourists in Aruba will be there on Freebees  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I missed it your post....didn't catch up before posting... ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 06, 2008, 11:26:28 PM
I just happened to catch the second half of the finale of 'Here's the Newlyweds' or something like that on ABC.  Those couples voted off had to vote for one of the 2 remaining couples to win $465,000.  Those who were voted off, however, were awarded a trip to Aruba...at the Radisson.  I think it had to be at least 8 couples...not sure.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Like I said before, pretty soon the only tourists in Aruba will be there on Freebees  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I missed it your post....didn't catch up before posting... ::MonkeyWink::

I think it was yesterday or the day before.  Someone posted about another giveaway to Aruba and I said the same thing.  There won't be anyone left in Aruba paying for their rooms, LOL  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 06, 2008, 11:27:32 PM
You guys probably already posted about this horrific murder in Aruba..Apparently the Son murdered his whole family..I guess he was a DJ for Top95 and the Father worked for a bank. I see both Rudy Croes and Peter De Witte were at the scene...

(http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/4072/lampesu1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/926/rudyasesioax9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 06, 2008, 11:30:52 PM
******* - yes we knew about it but I hadn't seen those photos.  Thanks for posting.  It's said the son who murdered them all may have had a drug problem.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 06, 2008, 11:40:11 PM
******* - yes we knew about it but I hadn't seen those photos.  Thanks for posting.  It's said the son who murdered them all may have had a drug problem.

YW! Well if it involved drugs and murder then that may be the backside of Dennis Jacobs..Not too many ALE wear a size 60 waist and 30 length  ::MonkeyNoNo:: I wonder how much involvement he had in Pitbulls Murder?

(http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/5396/lampe2cg3.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 06, 2008, 11:42:55 PM
*******  - it appears to me that the son that murdered them all was NOT the DJ at Top95.  It's that one with the dirty blonde hair that looks like he's on drugs.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: AZSunny on April 06, 2008, 11:47:51 PM
Well,  it looks like Rudy is on drugs too with that shirt he has on!   ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 06, 2008, 11:50:53 PM
Well,  it looks like Rudy is on drugs too with that shirt he has on!   ::MonkeyCool::

Rudy really needs to have someone dress him.  The colors he wears are not good for him at all.   ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 06, 2008, 11:52:44 PM
*******  - it appears to me that the son that murdered them all was NOT the DJ at Top95.  It's that one with the dirty blonde hair that looks like he's on drugs.

Your right...Interesting that both Rudy Croes and De Witte were on the scene...I guess it's a rare situation where this will actually go down as violent murders instead of the normal Arubacides..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 06, 2008, 11:58:56 PM
*******  - it appears to me that the son that murdered them all was NOT the DJ at Top95.  It's that one with the dirty blonde hair that looks like he's on drugs.

Your right...Interesting that both Rudy Croes and De Witte were on the scene...I guess it's a rare situation where this will actually go down as violent murders instead of the normal Arubacides..

The way Glenda was talking at RU, everyone knew this family and it was quite a shock.  Very sad.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 07, 2008, 12:06:52 AM
*******  - it appears to me that the son that murdered them all was NOT the DJ at Top95.  It's that one with the dirty blonde hair that looks like he's on drugs.

Your right...Interesting that both Rudy Croes and De Witte were on the scene...I guess it's a rare situation where this will actually go down as violent murders instead of the normal Arubacides..

The way Glenda was talking at RU, everyone knew this family and it was quite a shock.  Very sad.

Yes..Very sad :( I wonder if they are related to Rudy Lampe? I see Rudy Lampe was did a press copnference and was in the papers on the 4th. Well I guess most everyone is connected in some fashion in Aruba. I translated this from the Dutch part of our forum as I am trying to understand this info..Makes me wonder what Info they have that links this arrest in the U.S. to Natalee and this possibly being Daury?

News from Aruba. I refer not to the gezinsdrama in Santa Cruz where a drug addict ombracht his parents and brother, but on the matter Natalee Holloway.
All hope of the team that the confessions of Joran van der Sloot examine is drawn to a trace that leads to a man, who because of a drugsdelict stuck in the United States. The police have evidence that he is probably the person who has the boat threats facing Natalee to open sea. The coming weeks should be clear whether it is a hot track or mislead. But from the fact that it is a so-called embargo research (research that is closely guarded, even for fellow police) can be inferred that the information quite seriously. Would the "Daury" still exist?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 07, 2008, 12:16:10 AM
Just one other thing from the front page of tomorrows Awemainta Newspaper..Will Nico Jorg   
say something suprising before he resigns this summer? We had a lot of hope from him when he scolded Paul VDS over a year ago and it's no suprise at all to see him butt heads with Rudy Croes....Will anyone ever make a stand in Aruba?

(http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/9828/jorgez0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 07, 2008, 12:21:16 AM
******* - I sure hope so, wouldn't that be great!

You better get some sleep, you have a big day ahead of you tomorrow!  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on April 07, 2008, 12:22:31 AM
I just happened to catch the second half of the finale of 'Here's the Newlyweds' or something like that on ABC.  Those couples voted off had to vote for one of the 2 remaining couples to win $465,000.  Those who were voted off, however, were awarded a trip to Aruba...at the Radisson.  I think it had to be at least 8 couples...not sure.   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Like I said before, pretty soon the only tourists in Aruba will be there on Freebees  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I missed it your post....didn't catch up before posting... ::MonkeyWink::

I think it was yesterday or the day before.  Someone posted about another giveaway to Aruba and I said the same thing.  There won't be anyone left in Aruba paying for their rooms, LOL  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I just had to come back and say that it's funny that in tonight's show it was a 'CONSOLATION' prize.... ::MonkeyLaugh::  Good PR move...hahahaha


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: texasmom on April 07, 2008, 12:27:48 AM
Just one other thing from the front page of tomorrows Awemainta Newspaper..Will Nico Jorg   
say something suprising before he resigns this summer? We had a lot of hope from him when he scolded Paul VDS over a year ago and it's no suprise at all to see him butt heads with Rudy Croes....Will anyone ever make a stand in Aruba?

(http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/9828/jorgez0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

I hope he will, but then again he's going back to work in the Netherlands so it probably depends on how far reaching this corruption goes.  I don't quite understand the "attorney general" position.  Are Nico Jorg and Theresa Croes both attorney generals but at different levels?  If anyone knows, I would appreciate help understanding this.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: texasmom on April 07, 2008, 12:36:22 AM
oops messed that last post up, sorry about that *******! ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 07, 2008, 01:20:43 AM
I'm off to play some games.

GOODNIGHT ALL!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Hotshot on April 07, 2008, 07:00:02 AM
Hey *******, good to see you made it, and are happy.  I too am off and running on my new job.  Hope to talk with you tonight...Then I guess I need to catch up on these murders...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: johan555 on April 07, 2008, 07:58:25 AM
Hu are you back *******?
or are you with your laptop in the middle of the jungle  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 07, 2008, 08:45:27 AM
Hu are you back *******?
or are you with your laptop in the middle of the jungle  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Hi Johan and Hotshot! Nice to see you guys :) No I am not in the jungle hooked up wirelessly..lol! But I am in a new place very far from where I moved from  ::MonkeyWink:: Suprisingly I woke up to snow today! Strange because yesterday it was 65 degrees here!

Hope all is well with the new job Hotshot..I'll be starting mine in 90 minutes  ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: MumInOhio on April 07, 2008, 08:58:07 AM
Hu are you back *******?
or are you with your laptop in the middle of the jungle  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Hi Johan and Hotshot! Nice to see you guys :) No I am not in the jungle hooked up wirelessly..lol! But I am in a new place very far from where I moved from  ::MonkeyWink:: Suprisingly I woke up to snow today! Strange because yesterday it was 65 degrees here!

Hope all is well with the new job Hotshot..I'll be starting mine in 90 minutes  ::MonkeyEek::


Hey *******Tamikosmom posted that bit about J2Ks making a stopI cant find it and may have to ask her to repost. Enjoy your day!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 07, 2008, 09:11:18 AM
Hello Mum,

Sssssssshhhhhh we aren't suposed to know about JK2 stopping at another bar! I still think that was a slip by David Kock...

Have a great day everyone!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 07, 2008, 10:47:32 AM

Hey *******Tamikosmom posted that bit about J2Ks making a stopI cant find it and may have to ask her to repost. Enjoy your day!!!

Good Morney Monkeys

Mum ... the Birmingham News link does not work anymore.  Maybe it can be access it the publications archives.

Janet
7:45 AM

++++++++++++++++++++++++

David Kock
Birmingham News - Associated Press
June 9, 2005


Satish Kalpoe's attorney, David Kock, said his client told him that van der Sloot asked the Kalpoe brothers to pick him up Sunday night so he could meet up with Holloway and her classmates at Carlos'n Charlie's, a popular watering hole in the capital, Oranjestad.

They said they left the bar around 1:30 a.m. with van der Sloot and an intoxicated Holloway in the back seat, then stopped briefly at another restaurant about a block away before heading out of town, Kock said.

http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1118481459238090.xml&coll=2

http://gwinnettdailyonline.com/GDP/archive/article7CC45D48DBE746FDAC4CA487F0C3448B.asp


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 07, 2008, 10:48:48 AM

*******  - it appears to me that the son that murdered them all was NOT the DJ at Top95.  It's that one with the dirty blonde hair that looks like he's on drugs.
[/quote]

Your right...Interesting that both Rudy Croes and De Witte were on the scene...I guess it's a rare situation where this will actually go down as violent murders instead of the normal Arubacides..
[/quote]

The way Glenda was talking at RU, everyone knew this family and it was quite a shock.  Very sad.
[/quote]

Yes..Very sad :( I wonder if they are related to Rudy Lampe? I see Rudy Lampe was did a press copnference and was in the papers on the 4th. Well I guess most everyone is connected in some fashion in Aruba. I translated this from the Dutch part of our forum as I am trying to understand this info..Makes me wonder what Info they have that links this arrest in the U.S. to Natalee and this possibly being Daury?

News from Aruba. I refer not to the gezinsdrama in Santa Cruz where a drug addict ombracht his parents and brother, but on the matter Natalee Holloway.
All hope of the team that the confessions of Joran van der Sloot examine is drawn to a trace that leads to a man, who because of a drugsdelict stuck in the United States. The police have evidence that he is probably the person who has the boat threats facing Natalee to open sea. The coming weeks should be clear whether it is a hot track or mislead. But from the fact that it is a so-called embargo research (research that is closely guarded, even for fellow police) can be inferred that the information quite seriously. Would the "Daury" still exist?
[/quote]

This would fall in line with the info Caps posted in the Shango thread about Daury being held in the USA on drug charges.  Caps said it was the Daury that claimed he was in Holland at the time Natalee disappeared.  Wonder if he got the wrong Daury?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 07, 2008, 11:03:50 AM

Yes..Very sad :( I wonder if they are related to Rudy Lampe? I see Rudy Lampe was did a press copnference and was in the papers on the 4th. Well I guess most everyone is connected in some fashion in Aruba. I translated this from the Dutch part of our forum as I am trying to understand this info..Makes me wonder what Info they have that links this arrest in the U.S. to Natalee and this possibly being Daury?

News from Aruba. I refer not to the gezinsdrama in Santa Cruz where a drug addict ombracht his parents and brother, but on the matter Natalee Holloway.
All hope of the team that the confessions of Joran van der Sloot examine is drawn to a trace that leads to a man, who because of a drugsdelict stuck in the United States. The police have evidence that he is probably the person who has the boat threats facing Natalee to open sea. The coming weeks should be clear whether it is a hot track or mislead. But from the fact that it is a so-called embargo research (research that is closely guarded, even for fellow police) can be inferred that the information quite seriously. Would the "Daury" still exist?

Good Morning *******

I also wonder if there is a relationship.  Then there are other Lampes that have been loosely associated to the Natalee Holloway.  The name "Juan" makes me think that maybe there is a connection to the composer of the Aruban National Anthem.

Janet

+++++++


Translated through google:

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_41192.php

Mother, father and son murdered in Santa Cruz
April 5, 2008, 20:12 (GMT -04:00)
Macuarima 127-c where the three bodies were found.


ORANJESTAD - In a house in the district Macuarima in Santa Cruz on Friday Aruba are three members of one family killed. That is what the police last night on the spot. These include the father, mother and son of the family Lampe: Juan (60), Aura Lampe-Geerman Edvard (57) and (30).  The Public Ministry said today that the exact cause of death remains unresolved, but that the conditions in which the bodies were found suspected to involve these people by a crime their lives have been.

The OM declares that the 29-year-old EJL (presumably the son Eugene Lampe) has been arrested on suspicion of attempted arson, murder and manslaughter after he himself around ten thirty on the politiewacht Sta. Cruz had reported "with a remarkable story 'about attempted arson and three bodies in the house.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg371406;topicseen#msg371406


From paradise to paradox in Aruba
At first, finding a missing American girl was paramount. Then the American media settled in, and attitudes have changed.
By DAVID ADAMS
Published August 22, 2005


"The level of ineptness, the level of omissions of things, blatantly orchestrated errors ... just was incredible," Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, told CBS last week.

That kind of talk has exasperated many islanders.

They are giving Aruba a very bad name," said Juan Chabaya Lampe, 85, a beloved Aruban musician, painter and writer, who composed the country's national anthem in 1954. "The American media should apologize."

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/08/22/Worldandnation/From_paradise_to_para.shtml


Mother says she thinks 3 men know what happened to teen
Twitty says authorities should apply pressure
Associated Press
updated 8:05 p.m. PT, Sun., June. 12, 2005


At the Santa Ana Catholic church in the town of Noord, also outside the capital, the Rev. Rudy Lampe told about 300 parishioners to pray to give  the family an oasis of peace.

Today we stand with the family of Natalee, Lampe said. This is the first time something like this has happened on our island so we are all in shock.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8169252/


Ten political leaders go up against each other in University Debate
Cooperation of Government, Judiciary and Police Discussion Important for Aruba (MEP absent)
Bon Dia Aruba
9/21/2005


<snipped>

Rudy Lampe (Red)
Says that the Holloway case was an opportunity for people to work together. The leader of Red wants a study of the investigation process conducted.

<snipped>

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2005_09_18_archive.html


Amigoe; March 29, 2007: International investigation in Namdar-case

WILLEMSTAD/ORANJESTAD - The Aruban Parliament-member Rudy Lampe (RED) presses for an international investigation in the Namdar-case.   The investigation must include Aruba and the Neth.Antilles and also the Netherlands and the United States. 

The Namdar-case involves both Aruba and Curacao.   It appears from leaked out e-mails that the American diamond dealer and businessman Effy Namdar has offered the Aruban government party MEP one million florins in bribery.   It appears from correspondence that refers to the Tourist Minister of Curacao in May 2006, that also the Curacao commissioner Ivan Strick (Finance and Tourism, FOL) and possibly also the former Tourism-commissioner Gerrit Schotte (MPK then, MAN now, have been in contact with Namdar. 

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/04/02/amigoe-namdar-has-offered-the-aruban-government-party-mep-one-million-florins-in-bribery-hmm/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 07, 2008, 11:14:10 AM
Looks like there was a fire at Grammy's, I believe that's the Karaoke place in Oranjestad.  From the article maybe a choller started it?

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/4437/5/


Chollernan a sende candela       
Monday, 07 April 2008 - 02:57 
Banda di e ex edificio di Texas y banda di e establicimento Grammys chollernan a sende un candela. Ora cu a personanan den vecindario a ripara cu e candela tabata por a yega fasilmente na e edificionan a bati alarma. Brandweer a yega pa asina paga e candela. Click read more pa mas imagen.
 


Comment:

XXXX said:

  cambia e nomber di oranjestad pa chollerstad.......................................... 

 ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: MumInOhio on April 07, 2008, 12:06:30 PM

Hey *******Tamikosmom posted that bit about J2Ks making a stopI cant find it and may have to ask her to repost. Enjoy your day!!!

Good Morney Monkeys

Mum ... the Birmingham News link does not work anymore.  Maybe it can be access it the publications archives.

Janet
7:45 AM

++++++++++++++++++++++++

David Kock
Birmingham News - Associated Press
June 9, 2005


Satish Kalpoe's attorney, David Kock, said his client told him that van der Sloot asked the Kalpoe brothers to pick him up Sunday night so he could meet up with Holloway and her classmates at Carlos'n Charlie's, a popular watering hole in the capital, Oranjestad.

They said they left the bar around 1:30 a.m. with van der Sloot and an intoxicated Holloway in the back seat, then stopped briefly at another restaurant about a block away before heading out of town, Kock said.

http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1118481459238090.xml&coll=2

http://gwinnettdailyonline.com/GDP/archive/article7CC45D48DBE746FDAC4CA487F0C3448B.asp


Thank you Tamikosmom...I thought I saved it, but I couldn't find it this morning...I will this time!

Now you just wouldn't happen to have a couple of other things would you?

KJ's trip to the Netherlands...I thought that she hand delivered something, but I thought I remembered van der Straten going too. Any clue as to when this would have been...I found one for July, but thought that was too late for what I remembered.

And I know we have discussed that Mos took over IIRC in March of 2007, but do you recall when KJ left. It has been suggested that maybe there was a 'filler' for while.

TIA...Tamikosmom and for all your hard work!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 07, 2008, 12:10:29 PM
Congratz *******!!! I'm happy you are happy!!! ::MonkeyHaHa::

A Great Big WELCOME BACK...and Congrats!!! from me too ;-)

Destiny...you were misssed greatly...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 07, 2008, 12:29:34 PM
Did Hans Mos present the three judge panel ... who ruled that there was insufficient supporting evidence ... with Freddy's witness statement where the words of Joran in the Devries' video recording ... in regards to Natalee's shaking/seizuress ... are supported ... the shaking/seizure that Dennis Jacobs questioned Beth and Jug about in the interrogations of June 1, 2005 ... one day following Joran's interrogation of May 31, 2005?

Janet

+++++++++

February 15, 2008
Court of Appeal upholds lower judges decision not to detain J.v.d.S.
J.v.d.S remains prime suspect
Judicial investigation continues


The Court of Appeal announced by the end of yesterday, February 14th, 2008, its decision to uphold the refusal by the investigating judge to order pre-trial detention of J.v.d.S. in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The Office of the Public Prosecutor had requested such an order after the Peter R de Vries-tapes had been received by the Office and had been evaluated. Last week the Office appealed the ruling of refusal by the judge.

The reasons underlying the Courts decision are the following. The Court has seen the visual materials, has listened to the audio materials and has inspected the verbatim reports. Based on that, the Court is of the opinion that there is a lack of sufficient facts and circumstances substantiating serious grounds for the suspicion of the suspects involvement in the crimes for which he is being held responsible by the prosecution.  The Court will generally be a bit more hesitant when it has to decide on a new request for pre-trial detention of a suspect, when that same suspect has been detained repeatedly before and there has been a considerable lapse of time.

J.v.d.S. has given extensive and detailed statements in Patrick van der Eems car, the undercover citizen who worked for Peter R. de Vries, on what happened during the night of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Nevertheless the Court sees various reasons not to accept the serious grounds of suspicion which are statutorily required for pre-trial detention. One of them is the history of contradictory statements by J.v.d.S., which were belied repeatedly by objective findings.

At this moment those parts of the statements made in Van der Eems car which contain new elements are not being underpinned by objective findings. Considering the possibility of a serious personality disorder as voiced by the prosecution combined with a personal history of untrue statements and remarks, which even according to the suspect himself are frequently false, the Court of Appeal has reasons for doubt regarding the incriminating character of the car-statements.

On the pre-trial detention issue the Code of criminal procedure does not provide for further appeals. The effect of the Court decision is that J.v.d.S. cannot be (re)arrested. The investigation of the Natalee Holloway case continues. J.v.d.S. is again the prime suspect.

At the end of the investigation the Office of the Public Prosecution will decide whether to charge or not.


Joran van der Sloot
De Zaak Natalee Holloway
Page 160/161


After Freddy's second statement on June 13th at 18:30, in which he keeps insisting that I told him the first story already on May 30th, the police confront us as best friends with each other.  Some further statements follow after that.  In the end Freddy states in his 6th and 7th statements (verbatim reports) that I have told him that Natalee went unconscious several times and did not regain consciousness at a certain moment, that I tried to wake her up by shaking her but that but this also did not work.
Unofficial Engish translation


Beth Holloway
DATELINE
February 23, 2008


Beth Holloway: The facts are within 48 hours of Natalee's disappearance, a lead detective asked me if she had a history of epilepsy or seizures. Two and a half years later, the main suspect himself, admits that Natalee -- he felt as if she suffered an epilepsy or seizure. And he even indicates how she's shaking.  So, if we look at just that one-- just that one piece, that's one thread out of a lot. Then, I have to say yes, there definitely was some collusion and corruption going on in the early days of Natalee's disappearance. Absolutely.
 
However, according to the prosecutor's office it's standard procedure to ask if a missing person might have a seizure disorder.

Police and prosecution officials declined on-camera interviews, but have consistently denied that there was any corruption, collusion or mishandling of the investigation.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/6/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 07, 2008, 12:41:54 PM

Hey *******Tamikosmom posted that bit about J2Ks making a stopI cant find it and may have to ask her to repost. Enjoy your day!!!

Good Morney Monkeys

Mum ... the Birmingham News link does not work anymore.  Maybe it can be access it the publications archives.

Janet
7:45 AM

++++++++++++++++++++++++

David Kock
Birmingham News - Associated Press
June 9, 2005


Satish Kalpoe's attorney, David Kock, said his client told him that van der Sloot asked the Kalpoe brothers to pick him up Sunday night so he could meet up with Holloway and her classmates at Carlos'n Charlie's, a popular watering hole in the capital, Oranjestad.

They said they left the bar around 1:30 a.m. with van der Sloot and an intoxicated Holloway in the back seat, then stopped briefly at another restaurant about a block away before heading out of town, Kock said.

http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1118481459238090.xml&coll=2

http://gwinnettdailyonline.com/GDP/archive/article7CC45D48DBE746FDAC4CA487F0C3448B.asp


Thank you Tamikosmom...I thought I saved it, but I couldn't find it this morning...I will this time!

Now you just wouldn't happen to have a couple of other things would you?

KJ's trip to the Netherlands...I thought that she hand delivered something, but I thought I remembered van der Straten going too. Any clue as to when this would have been...I found one for July, but thought that was too late for what I remembered.

And I know we have discussed that Mos took over IIRC in March of 2007, but do you recall when KJ left. It has been suggested that maybe there was a 'filler' for while.

TIA...Tamikosmom and for all your hard work!

Mum ... you are welcome and ... thank you.

1.  Yes .... I have something on Karin's trip to the Netherlands.  IIRC ... it was with the duct tape and hair.  However ... it may take a while ... my desktop files are a mess.  DIL is stopping over tonight after school (teacher) and ... doing a major overhaul.  I probably will not be able to find anything ... too organized.

2.  No ... I do not have a time frame in regards to when Karin Janssen left the investigation and ... Hans Mos took over.  To tell the truth ... the first time I heard of Hans Mos was in November, 2007 ... just prior to Joran, Deepak and Satish were detain.  It was when Mos was making the talk show circuit claiming that this time the three were going down.

Janet

++++++++++++

Hans Mos
ABC NEWS
November 26, 2007


Hans Mos, Aruba's chief prosecutor, told ABC News he believes the the new evidence makes the case against the three men stronger than it was two years.

"We are convinced if we had had this evidence we have now they would not have been released by the court at that time," Mos said.

http://sendtofriend.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3912737


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: LilPuma on April 07, 2008, 12:52:23 PM
Good morning.

I think the suit is all about DISCOVERY.......

Not about monetary reward or damages.  Not about making a criminal case. 

It's about obtaining testimony under oath  that will leave no doubt as to who is responsible for the disappearance of Natalee.



I agree, Peaches.  Any monetary damages would simply replace a prison sentence if the coverup had not taken place.  If the Sloots lose and do not pay damages, they will not be able to work or live in the U.S. and may have problems with any investments from U.S. companies. 

BTW, love the new lip gloss.   ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: LilPuma on April 07, 2008, 12:55:38 PM
Has there been any word from Jossy about anything? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 07, 2008, 01:20:33 PM
KARIN JANSSEN - THE DUCT TAPE

Mum ...

Janet
__________

Diario
July 21, 2005
Page 3


HEAD PROSECUTOR MRS. KARIN JANSEN FLEW URGENTLY TO THE NETHERLANDS
Sealed pieces of evidence will be handed over to the State Laboratory.


ORANJESTAD (AAN): Competent authorities decided that Head Prosecutor Mrs. Karin Janssen must travel to The Netherlands. According to sources it deals with an urgent flight possibly relating to the investigation that is still ongoing of Natalee Holloway.

As it is known recently park rangers called alarm when they discovered among other things a piece of Duct tape that has hair resembling the hair of the American girl that is going to be missing for two months. In this case the only suspect detained is the young man Joran van der Sloot. For the Duct tape and possibly other evidence to reach as fast as possible to the State Laboratory, which is situated in Rijswijk, The Hague, it was decided that the sealed evidence will be transported by the Head Prosecutor Mrs. Karin Jansen who boarded the flight to the Netherlands.  

As it is already known from the beginning DNA tests have been conducted on the mother and father of Holloway which would facilitate the investigators. There are indications that DNA tests have been done on Joran but we cant get official confirmation of this, but as we understood it this has already been done. Close sources stated that at the moment that the Head Prosecutors touches ground in The Netherlands the sealed evidence will he brought directly to the State Lab, where analysts will examine, study, compare, using the latest technology to find out if the hairs could belong to Natalee. Possibly tomorrow or in later days it will be determined what the result of this analysis is.  
Translated by Aruba Girl

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/07/21/karin-jansen-flew-urgently-to-the-netherlands/


Vacation Break?
Thursday, July 21, 2005
By Greta Van Susteren


The Natalee Holloway (search) story continues to baffle me. What's with everyone on the case taking vacations? Now the chief prosecutor is on a two-week vacation to the Netherlands! I don't know what you think... but it seems to me that if you are in charge of the only murder investigation in your country, and if the clock is winding down on holding your chief suspect, that you might want to delay that vacation a few weeks. Even some of us worked vacation days covering the story and we are not in charge of the investigation... we are simply covering it for a news organization.

I go back and forth sometimes I think (hope?) that maybe the Aruba authorities have significant evidence and are simply not revealing it and sometimes I think they have no evidence. Most often I think they have little or no evidence. Worse, I am not always confident they are trying hard to do what should be done in an investigation. The "slow start" may have created fatal errors to an effective investigation.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,163205,00.html


Anastasiya Bolton - WBMA
NANCY GRACE
July 22, 2005


GRACE: ... Back to Anastasiya Bolton with WBMA. I want to go back to the prosecutor, Karin Janssen. She`s gone on vacation for two full weeks, but at least she managed to drop off the DNA evidence at the Hague in Netherlands. Did she hand-deliver that?

BOLTON: Yes, indeed, Nancy, she did on the way to her vacation. She did hand-deliver that evidence, which is, of course, being processed right now in the forensic lab.  
She`s not working alone on this case. She has another prosecutor helping her out and keeping a watch while she`s on vacation until August 3rd, as we understand it.

Overall, about 25 people are working on this case, including the FBI, including the police department in Nor (ph), which is right next to the beach where Natalee was last seen. And some people from the Dutch government are actually on the island helping out with the investigation, as well.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/22/ng.01.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Altruist on April 07, 2008, 01:43:00 PM
Aruba Networks slides on JP Morgan downgrade
Shares of Aruba Networks (Nasdaq:ARUN) are taking a hit today and are hovering near their 52 week low after JP Morgan downgraded the security technology company to underweight from neutral on concerns surrounding the companys sales cycle length and shrinking order sizes in light of the dismal macroeconomic backdrop. 

JP Morgan analyst Ehud Gelblum said he thinks lengthening sales cycles and shrinking order sizes could +++++ the entire wireless local area network (WLAN) market and pressure Arubas margins for the rest of 2008. The analyst said he expects the retail segment to be hit the hardest, as it is one of the largest, and as he expects the economic downturn to continue through to 2009.

As a result, the analyst is reducing his 2008 growth forecast for the dependent WLAN market by five points to 28% from 33%, as spending on WLAN is the most discretionary in the realm of IT projects, according to Gelblum.
 
He now predicts that the companys 802.11n roll-outs will take longer than expected and could be delayed until 2009.

http://www.smallcapinvestor.com/articles/04072008-aruba_networks_slides_on_jp_morgan_downgrade   

Noticed this JPM updates just now.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Kiwi on April 07, 2008, 01:50:15 PM
KARIN JANSSEN - THE DUCT TAPE

Mum ...

Janet
__________

Diario
July 21, 2005
Page 3


HEAD PROSECUTOR MRS. KARIN JANSEN FLEW URGENTLY TO THE NETHERLANDS
Sealed pieces of evidence will be handed over to the State Laboratory.


ORANJESTAD (AAN): Competent authorities decided that Head Prosecutor Mrs. Karin Janssen must travel to The Netherlands. According to sources it deals with an urgent flight possibly relating to the investigation that is still ongoing of Natalee Holloway.

As it is known recently park rangers called alarm when they discovered among other things a piece of Duct tape that has hair resembling the hair of the American girl that is going to be missing for two months. In this case the only suspect detained is the young man Joran van der Sloot. For the Duct tape and possibly other evidence to reach as fast as possible to the State Laboratory, which is situated in Rijswijk, The Hague, it was decided that the sealed evidence will be transported by the Head Prosecutor Mrs. Karin Jansen who boarded the flight to the Netherlands.  

As it is already known from the beginning DNA tests have been conducted on the mother and father of Holloway which would facilitate the investigators. There are indications that DNA tests have been done on Joran but we cant get official confirmation of this, but as we understood it this has already been done. Close sources stated that at the moment that the Head Prosecutors touches ground in The Netherlands the sealed evidence will he brought directly to the State Lab, where analysts will examine, study, compare, using the latest technology to find out if the hairs could belong to Natalee. Possibly tomorrow or in later days it will be determined what the result of this analysis is.  
Translated by Aruba Girl

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/07/21/karin-jansen-flew-urgently-to-the-netherlands/


Vacation Break?
Thursday, July 21, 2005
By Greta Van Susteren


The Natalee Holloway (search) story continues to baffle me. What's with everyone on the case taking vacations? Now the chief prosecutor is on a two-week vacation to the Netherlands! I don't know what you think... but it seems to me that if you are in charge of the only murder investigation in your country, and if the clock is winding down on holding your chief suspect, that you might want to delay that vacation a few weeks. Even some of us worked vacation days covering the story and we are not in charge of the investigation... we are simply covering it for a news organization.

I go back and forth sometimes I think (hope?) that maybe the Aruba authorities have significant evidence and are simply not revealing it and sometimes I think they have no evidence. Most often I think they have little or no evidence. Worse, I am not always confident they are trying hard to do what should be done in an investigation. The "slow start" may have created fatal errors to an effective investigation.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,163205,00.html


Anastasiya Bolton - WBMA
NANCY GRACE
July 22, 2005


GRACE: ... Back to Anastasiya Bolton with WBMA. I want to go back to the prosecutor, Karin Janssen. She`s gone on vacation for two full weeks, but at least she managed to drop off the DNA evidence at the Hague in Netherlands. Did she hand-deliver that?

BOLTON: Yes, indeed, Nancy, she did on the way to her vacation. She did hand-deliver that evidence, which is, of course, being processed right now in the forensic lab.  
She`s not working alone on this case. She has another prosecutor helping her out and keeping a watch while she`s on vacation until August 3rd, as we understand it.

Overall, about 25 people are working on this case, including the FBI, including the police department in Nor (ph), which is right next to the beach where Natalee was last seen. And some people from the Dutch government are actually on the island helping out with the investigation, as well.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/22/ng.01.html
Interesting that 3 years ago their were 25 people working this case and now the number is still the same. So is this the standard number used for all questions related to investigators. If LE still reads here try changing the number to 26 or 24 just to change things for appearances only.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: bleachedblack on April 07, 2008, 01:53:47 PM
Looks like there was a fire at Grammy's, I believe that's the Karaoke place in Oranjestad.  From the article maybe a choller started it?

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/4437/5/


Chollernan a sende candela       
Monday, 07 April 2008 - 02:57 
Banda di e ex edificio di Texas y banda di e establicimento Grammys chollernan a sende un candela. Ora cu a personanan den vecindario a ripara cu e candela tabata por a yega fasilmente na e edificionan a bati alarma. Brandweer a yega pa asina paga e candela. Click read more pa mas imagen.
 


Comment:

XXXX said:

  cambia e nomber di oranjestad pa chollerstad.......................................... 

 ::MonkeyHaHa::


Orangestad=chollerstad
  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyLaugh::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Buckeye on April 07, 2008, 02:07:51 PM
Aruba Networks slides on JP Morgan downgrade
Shares of Aruba Networks (Nasdaq:ARUN) are taking a hit today and are hovering near their 52 week low after JP Morgan downgraded the security technology company to underweight from neutral on concerns surrounding the companys sales cycle length and shrinking order sizes in light of the dismal macroeconomic backdrop. 

JP Morgan analyst Ehud Gelblum said he thinks lengthening sales cycles and shrinking order sizes could +++++ the entire wireless local area network (WLAN) market and pressure Arubas margins for the rest of 2008. The analyst said he expects the retail segment to be hit the hardest, as it is one of the largest, and as he expects the economic downturn to continue through to 2009.

As a result, the analyst is reducing his 2008 growth forecast for the dependent WLAN market by five points to 28% from 33%, as spending on WLAN is the most discretionary in the realm of IT projects, according to Gelblum.
 
He now predicts that the companys 802.11n roll-outs will take longer than expected and could be delayed until 2009.

http://www.smallcapinvestor.com/articles/04072008-aruba_networks_slides_on_jp_morgan_downgrade   

Noticed this JPM updates just now.

I believe Aruba Networks is a US company with no ties to Aruba.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: MumInOhio on April 07, 2008, 02:30:48 PM
Thank You Tamikosmom and Buckeye....KJ out....Lugo from 1/16 and still there on 5/14, so Mos may not have come on board until November.

Duct tape in July, was hoping for June. Will go back and look at van der Straten I think he made a trip.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 07, 2008, 02:53:18 PM
I imagine that Joran van der Sloot's defence was behind the reason that Karin Janssen did not comply with Prime Minister Nelson Oduber's request to turn over the Natalee Holloway case file to the FBI.  David Kock's motion to prevent documents/audio/evidence from being turn down by an Aruban court but ...

Janet

+++++++++++++++++++++

July 22, 2005
As confirmed by sources at Aruba Today, the following statement has been issued by the Aruban Government:


The Government of Aruba would like to confirm by legal means necessary to guarantee the involvement of the FBI in regards to the investigation about the disappearance of Ms. Natalee Holloway. This involvement is to be all levels, which means that the FBI must have complete access to the dossier, including transcripts, audio tapes or video registration of interrogations, plus all materials that are connected to this case, in as much as our judicial system allows.

In case the current phase of investigation limits mentioned involvement, than the instruction is to use all legal means necessary to allow and even guarantee complete access to the FBI. If external expertise in reference to above is required, you are hereby authorized and instructed to do so.

Lastly, it is imperative that there should not be any doubt at all that Aruban authorities guarantee full cooperation in this case with the American authorities, as has been the case since the beginning, within the boundaries of our judicial system. (Red)

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/07/22/breaking-news-aruban-pm-and-minister-of-justice-to-aruban-le-hand-it-over/


Aruba PM: Give FBI documents on missing teen U.S. agency has been assisting in investigation but without access to papers
Associated Press July 22, Updated: 8:58 p.m. ET July 22, 2005


ORANJESTAD, Aruba - Arubas prime minister has urged investigators to give the FBI all documents related to the disappearance of Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway, according to a letter released late Friday.  

Prime Minister Nelson Oduber asked in the letter to Attorney General Karin Janssen that the bureau be allowed complete access to the dossier, including transcripts, audio tapes or video registration of interrogations, plus all materials that are connected to this case, in as much as our judicial system allows.

FBI agents have been advising Aruban authorities in the 6-week-old investigation but have not had access to case records, said government spokesman Ruben Trapenberg.

FBI spokeswoman Judy Orihuela said the FBI has pressed for access to the documents.

Trapenberg said Janssen had not yet responded to the governments request. The attorney general could not immediately be reached for comment Friday.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8672318/


Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE
Page 184


Then FBI agent Bill comes by and delivers the final blow. "The FBI has never received one single document from the Arubans. Not one tape. Nothing." he says sadly. Depite our personal pleas to authorities here and our broadcast appeals to Aruba to let the FBI lend a hand, and regardless of Aruba's public response that it would welcome FBI assistance, the island never let FBI agents in on the investigation. Never passed them the ball. Not even for one minute.


Beth Twitty
NANCY GRACE
September 28, 2005


TWITTY: You know, Nancy, I really don`t know, you know, as this case has gone and how frustrating it`s been and how little information we`re allowed to get, and even now, with the FBI not even able to receive a single piece of evidence. So we`ll just have to try.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0509/28/ng.01.html

 
Harris Faulkner - ACA
NANCY GRACE
September 28, 2005


HARRIS FAULKNER, "A CURRENT AFFAIR": Well, you know, Nancy, the biggest news so far has been our exclusive interview with Joran Van Der Sloot, and that is something that Natalee`s mom had said all along that she wanted to see words from Joran. So as soon as we got that tape, we showed it to Beth. And you know, I have to say, in the watching it -- and I know you guys here have watched it on your show -- there are so many nuances in that tape and so many things that pop up that Beth then reacted to that gave us new information.

For instance, I never knew until talking with Beth this week that the FBI was never given a single document, audio or visual, in this case. And now we`ve confirmed that, and I know you have done so, too.  All along, we had thought this summer, you know, maybe they were being held at bay because of Dutch or Aruban law. And then we saw the Aruban prime minister about a month ago come out and say, FBI, come on in, inviting them in, I thought in a more substantive manner. Maybe we all thought that, too. But when Beth told me, sure, there was a Dutch official who flew from Holland all the way to Quantico to share information, but didn`t leave a single thing in the hands of the FBI.

GRACE: Wait a minute! Wait a minute! Harris, are you telling me the FBI doesn`t have a copy machine?

FAULKNER: I don`t think it`s about that. I think it`s about being able to have those documents released to them. And you know, I did have an attorney ...

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0509/28/ng.01.html


Defense attorneys want FBI out of Aruba
Powered by CDNN - CYBER DIVER News Network


ORANJESTAD, Aruba (10 Aug 2005) -- Defense lawyers on Wednesday appealed a judge's ruling that Aruban authorities could share information with the FBI about missing teen Natalee Holloway.

Last week, a judge struck down a motion by the defense to prohibit file sharing with the American law enforcement agency, which is acting in an advisory role in the high-profile case.
"It's not a question of having something to hide but about the legality of their (FBI) involvement," said defense lawyer David Kock.

Kock, one of three lawyers who argued the appeal Wednesday in a closed court session, said a decision was expected Monday.

FBI agents have been on the Dutch Caribbean island as observers since Holloway disappeared May 30. They were granted access to material last month at the urging of the Aruban prime minister.

Lawyers for Joran van der Sloot, a Dutch teenager who has been detained in the disappearance, and two Surinamese brothers have argued the FBI didn't have jurisdiction and shouldn't have access to the investigation.

Also Wednesday, prosecutors issued a summons to a man who said he saw van der Sloot and the Surinamese brothers at a pond the night Holloway disappeared, said Attorney General spokeswoman Mariaine Croes.

The man was expected to give sworn testimony in court later this week, said Croes, who declined to provide details.

Police have said the man, who has not been identified, told police that he saw the three young men driving near a pond by the Marriott Hotel around 2:30 a.m. on May 30.

The account is significant because van der Sloot told authorities that he was already at home by 2:30 a.m. and that he had left Holloway, unharmed, at a beach near the Marriott.

Based on the witness account, police partially drained the pond but found no evidence.

Holloway, 18, was last seen leaving a nightclub with van der Sloot and the two brothers on the final night of a high school graduation trip with 124 classmates to Aruba. Authorities and volunteers have made extensive searches of the island but found no trace of her.

http://www.cdnn.info/news/travel/t050810a.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 07, 2008, 03:06:01 PM
I imagine that Joran van der Sloot's defence was behind the reason that Karin Janssen did not comply with Prime Minister Nelson Oduber's request to turn over the Natalee Holloway case file to the FBI.  David Kock's motion to prevent documents/audio/evidence from being turn down by an Aruban court but ...

Hi Janet,

I understand that some wonder if the Holloways will receive the case file. Just going by those missing on Aruba and what happened after - there will never be a case file no matter what.

The Makings family and the Devries have not received anything - zilch. zero, nada.

Even if the Holloway case is / was officially closed - I seriously doubt there will ever be a transfer of files based on the previous history dealing with the families of those missing.

maybe others feel differently, but the results and stats are there.

Case closed / case open - it makes no difference - no case files for anyone.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Kiwi on April 07, 2008, 03:30:19 PM
I imagine that Joran van der Sloot's defence was behind the reason that Karin Janssen did not comply with Prime Minister Nelson Oduber's request to turn over the Natalee Holloway case file to the FBI.  David Kock's motion to prevent documents/audio/evidence from being turn down by an Aruban court but ...

Hi Janet,

I understand that some wonder if the Holloways will receive the case file. Just going by those missing on Aruba and what happened after - there will never be a case file no matter what.

The Makings family and the Devries have not received anything - zilch. zero, nada.

Even if the Holloway case is / was officially closed - I seriously doubt there will ever be a transfer of files based on the previous history dealing with the families of those missing.

maybe others feel differently, but the results and stats are there.

Case closed / case open - it makes no difference - no case files for anyone.
Rob there has to be case notes for the FBI. Even if they simply read, we were kicked out of this office and that office. So where are the notes for the Quantico visit, or their impressions? What ever exists should be made public or explained publicly why they cannot legally comment, since its not an ongoing case.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 07, 2008, 03:38:31 PM
I imagine that Joran van der Sloot's defence was behind the reason that Karin Janssen did not comply with Prime Minister Nelson Oduber's request to turn over the Natalee Holloway case file to the FBI.  David Kock's motion to prevent documents/audio/evidence from being released to the FBI was turn down by an Aruban court but ...

Hi Janet,

I understand that some wonder if the Holloways will receive the case file. Just going by those missing on Aruba and what happened after - there will never be a case file no matter what.

The Makings family and the Devries have not received anything - zilch. zero, nada.

Even if the Holloway case is / was officially closed - I seriously doubt there will ever be a transfer of files based on the previous history dealing with the families of those missing.

maybe others feel differently, but the results and stats are there.

Case closed / case open - it makes no difference - no case files for anyone.

Rob ... I agree.  However ... considering the notarity (sp) of this case and ... the determination of Beth to initiate legal proceedings to get her hands on her daughter's file ... is going to chance officially closing the case.  It will be allowed to remain open and ... become cold.

I believe that when it is considered that that the Natalee Holloway  case is still officially ongoing and ... Joran has once again been declared a suspect ... Aruba/Holland will have a legal means to prevent Beth from pursuing the civil lawsuit ... prevent Beth from getting access to the case file.

IMO

Janet


No custody for Van der Sloot
02/15/2008


The OM has no statutory remedies left against the decision. The investigation in the Holloway-case will continue with 25 detectives working on it and Van der Sloot remains the suspect.  The OM will decide on further prosecution of Van der Sloot after they are done with the investigation.

http://www.amigoe.com/english/


February 15, 2008
Court of Appeal upholds lower judges decision not to detain J.v.d.S.
J.v.d.S remains prime suspect
Judicial investigation continues


On the pre-trial detention issue the Code of criminal procedure does not provide for further appeals. The effect of the Court decision is that J.v.d.S. cannot be (re)arrested. The investigation of the Natalee Holloway case continues. J.v.d.S. is again the prime suspect.  
At the end of the investigation the Office of the Public Prosecution will decide whether to charge or not.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2605.msg350819#msg350819


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 07, 2008, 03:44:07 PM
Hi Kiwi, sure there is an FBI case file. They were involved and they have taken in what they know. I am referring to the Auban case file, which I have serious reservations if it will ever be revealed. I doubt there is a complete file anyway.

And I'm sorry, but I don't buy the FBI doesn't comment - they have been blabbing all over the net about the Anthrax investigation even though there is no way on God' green Earth that the public can provide any assistance. The three suspects (I have found out there are three by reading the account provided by the FBI) are biological weapons experts working for the government. So, not only did I find out but so did the suspects, but they probably knew that because they were all asked to provide handwriting samples. I found out about the handwriting sample from - you guess it - the published FBI account.

The FBI knows what happened to Natalee. That I believe to be 100% true, but Aruba is autonomous and out of the reach of anything the FBI can do.

The FBI informed Beth on 6-9-2005 that Natalee was likely deceased before or right after a 20 / 20 interview and Beth was heard crying behind a closed conference room door. There is no way they would do that with out a body if they weren't sure. in my opinion.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 07, 2008, 03:52:51 PM
The following June 24, 2005 statement implies that a cell phone was not necessary for Joran to keep in touch with his father while detained ... he had his mother, his lawyer and his father's lawyer as go betweens.

The statement also implies that Paulus van der Sloot participated in the events that encompassed the morning when Natalee Holloway went missing.
________________


From BFN

PROCES VERBAAL


We, Ghrizanti Anuar TROMP and Marcelino Antonio Gregory RAS respectively officer and officer first class with the Korps Politie Aruba and both attached to the Robbery Project Team (Atraco Team) declare the following.

On June 24th 2005, at approximately 10.00 hours, we, the reporting officers, went to the correctional facility Aruba to pick up suspect "Joran Andreas Petrus van der SLOOT" to be questioned.

There we, the reporting officers, were informed by the watch-commander on duty of the KIA that the suspect J.A.P. van der SLOOT refused to go with us.

The suspect J.A.P. van der SLOOT talked to us subsequently, and informed us that he did not want to go with us to the police station in Oranjestad to make a statement.

The suspect J.A.P. van der SLOOT gave us as a reason:

- he would only go with us, the reporting officers if is father was released;

- that his mother and his lawyer had advised him on behalf of his father to not make any more statements and to invoke his right to not make statements;

- that he would receive a message from his father's lawyer when he should make statements;

- that according to his lawyer, if he would stop making statements, his father would be released in two days;

- that he listens to his families advise;

- that the lawyers "Antonio CARLO" and "OOMEN" are good friends of his father

- that these two lawyers out of friendship with is father would defend them

- that he know that if he would make a statement he could bring his father into trouble

- that his father suffers from bad memory and that because of that his and his fathers statements would not correspond

- that his father even can't remember what kind of clothes he himself wore the day before

- that his lawyer had said that the police arrested his father because according to the police his father had picked him up in the late night hours of May 30th 2005 at McDonalds

- that he wished the police would leave his friends and family alone/stop bothering his family and friends

- that he would only answer new questions asked by investigators

- that his lawyer had advised him only to make statements in his presence

- that his lawyer had started a lawsuit so that he would only make a statement with the lawyer present

- that he wouldn't come with us today because his mother would be visiting him at 14.00 hours that day

- that if he gets a visit from his mother he would discuss making another statement with her.

- that only if his father, by way of his lawyer would say he should make a statement he would do so

- that he was waiting for the statement of his father and after that make another statement.

Of this, we, the reporting officers, on our oath of office, have made this proces-verbaal, closed and signed in Oranjestad on June 24th 2005.

The reporting officers,

S.A. TROMP M.A.G. RAS


DUTCH:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/SM%20Property/JV0624A-1.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/SM%20Property/JV0624A-2.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/SM%20Property/JV0624A-3.jpg

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=193.0



The above statement implies that Anita van der Sloot is not a naive victim ... she is a participant in the process that denying Natalee Holloway justice.

Janet

++++++++++

Anita van der Sloot
On the Record w/ Greta
June 23, 2005


ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: No. The first days, when he was at the police office, I could go in sometimes in the morning, see him for five or ten minutes, sometimes at night, and I could hold him. I couldn't talk about the case or anything, just about love from this and this person, friends from Holland called, people who wrote e-mails. So I spoke with him about these things and just told him to stay strong and to tell the truth.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 07, 2008, 03:56:47 PM
Rob ... I agree.  However ... considering the notarity (sp) of this case and ... the determination of Beth to initiate legal proceedings to get her hands on her daughter's file ... is going to chance officially closing the case.  It will be allowed to remain open and ... become cold.

I believe that when it is considered that that the Natalee Holloway  case is still officially ongoing and ... Joran has once again been declared a suspect ... Aruba/Holland will have a legal means to prevent Beth from pursuing the civil lawsuit ... prevent Beth from getting access to the case file.

IMO

Janet


No custody for Van der Sloot
02/15/2008


The OM has no statutory remedies left against the decision. The investigation in the Holloway-case will continue with 25 detectives working on it and Van der Sloot remains the suspect.  The OM will decide on further prosecution of Van der Sloot after they are done with the investigation.

http://www.amigoe.com/english/


February 15, 2008
Court of Appeal upholds lower judges decision not to detain J.v.d.S.
J.v.d.S remains prime suspect
Judicial investigation continues


On the pre-trial detention issue the Code of criminal procedure does not provide for further appeals. The effect of the Court decision is that J.v.d.S. cannot be (re)arrested. The investigation of the Natalee Holloway case continues. J.v.d.S. is again the prime suspect.  
At the end of the investigation the Office of the Public Prosecution will decide whether to charge or not.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2605.msg350819#msg350819

I hope and pray that if Beth and JQK raise enough heck the files will appear. That's all they have going for them - use the media to once again showcase what Aruba is really all about. People will remember that Natalee and her family were royally screwed over by Aruba and think to themselves - oh jeezz there goes Aruba screwing that family again. It will make people wretch all over again.

So you're right... the only only only way there would ever be any case is if Aruba saw further economic damage by refusing to release the files and after what has happened so far, I doubt they care one bit if what's left of their reputation suffers another of the death by a thousand slices. They just don't care.

As other astute posters have said - we know, and they know we know - and they still don't care. paraphrased...

I hope there will be more discovery in the civil suit, but it believe it will be limited to a few specific areas.

As for the suspect status I don't believe their rhetoric anymore. While a formal suspect they never even re-interviewed Joran. Not once. He was in Holland and relatively easy to find. When I see Paulus in handcuffs, I'll get my hopes up again, but not until.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: wreck on April 07, 2008, 05:56:10 PM
I hate to burst anyone's bubble -- but the Aruban files (if ever turned over) will be worthless junk. Those files have been "scrubbed" and "sanitized" a long long time ago.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 07, 2008, 06:21:04 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,347748,00.html

Man Claims His Family Was Kicked off Cruise Ship for Protest

Monday, April 07, 2008

 It was hardly a mutiny, but a man claims he and his three boys were forced to walk the plank after staging a small protest on a Carnival cruise ship, MyFOXHouston.com reported.

The Carnival Conquest had an itinerary of Jamaica, Grand Cayman and Cozumel, but along the way a crewmember became ill, forcing the ship to skip Jamaica. When the ship tried to make amends by giving guests a mere $25, Steve Sparks had enough.

Sparks started a petition with other vacationers, and after meeting with the ships captain, he and his three boys were booted off the ship and forced to return to the U.S., MyFOXHouston.com reported.

While Carnival paid for the airline tickets back to the U.S., Sparks thinks he's entitled to more. And he's considering legal action.

Carnival claims the crew acted in the right manner, as Sparks was being verbally abusive and belligerent to the vessels staff The ships command believed he was disruptive to the safe operation of the vessel, a Carnival spokesman said in a statement.

The matter is now an Internet uproar, with numerous posts on CruiseCritic.com.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 07, 2008, 06:28:30 PM
Funny post  ::MonkeyHaHa::

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=749364

April 4th, 2008, 12:08 PM
Earthbound Earthbound is offline
Cool Cruiser
        
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 18
Default Jolly Pirates Cancelled this week
Just got an email from Jolly Pirates refunding my money and cancelling the tour for this upcoming week. They said they had a problem getting a part in for the boat since appearantly it comes from Indonesia.

We were really looking forward to it so its a bit disappointing. What else should we do?
Reply With Quote

__________________

right the 'missing part' is called a CORK!!!!  to keep it from sinking again  ::MonkeyLaugh::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Pita on April 07, 2008, 07:05:26 PM
Posted by Debbie, BFN

Mackin McKinney Blog (Natalee's Friend)

http://mackinmckinney.blogspot.com/2008/04/natalee-holloway.html

Sunday, April 6, 2008

Natalee Holloway
 
We had just had celebrated our big high school graduation and were scheduled to go to Aruba the next morning. There were one hundred and twenty five of our best friends going down to celebrate after finally graduating from Mountain Brook High School. A group of us had spent the night at my house the so that we could get up early and all head to the airport together. We talked about all the fun things we wanted to do and how excited we all were, as we were all completely oblivious to what was about to happen. I never would have guessed that this would be the last time that Natalee would be in my house with all of us.

Our flight was scheduled to leave at seven in the morning so we had to get up very early. None of us really had slept the night before because we were all too excited. We finally arrived in Aruba and were greeted by buses that were going to take us to our resort. It was an all inclusive hotel that had tons of places to eat and bars on the property. We had to decide who was going to be in our rooms before we arrived and there was a door that opened to the next room to combine them. Natalee and I shared a room with two other girls along with four more of our friends in the next room. Everyone was so excited that we immediately put on our bathing suits and headed to the pool. The first night everyone decided to stay at the hotel and just go to the bars and the casinos. We were having a ball and everyone was so laid back and care free.

As our trip was coming to a close on our last night everyone decided that we were going to ride the bus into town and go to the hot spot Carlos and Charlies. We were scheduled to go out on a day cruise on a sailboat for the day and then were going to go home and eat dinner before we headed out for our big night on the town. The sailboat was amazing and there was a bar on the boat so all of us were laying out on the front of the boat getting sun and enjoying our tropical drinks. Natalee and all of us began to talk about these guys that we had met in the casino the night before and how they had said that they were going to go to Carlos and Charlies also. None of us really had wanted to be around them, but they had come to our hotel and started conversation with all of us.

We got in from the day out on the water and ran to our rooms to shower and get ready for dinner and a crazy last night in Aruba. After enjoying a nice dinner at the hotel, all of us loaded up onto the buses and headed into town. The bar was so crowded and everyone began drinking and dancing. The bar tenders were getting people on stage to compete in contest and of course all of our friends were on stage. It began getting late and the bar was closing so all of us were forced outside into the street. Most of the group was together, but none of us could find Natalee. The bar was so crazy when everyone was leaving that there was no trying to find someone cause everyone was pushing and shoving and of course had lots to drink. Everyone began cramming into cabs and headed back to the hotel. There was another group that had gone to another bar so most of us figured Natalee had gone with them. Everyone was exhausted and ready to go to bed so when we got back to the hotel we fell right to sleep.

We woke up the next morning to find that Natalee was not in our room and figured that she had just stayed in another room. Natalee was never the type to be late and would never miss something like a flight home. It was getting close to the time we were supposed to leave for the airport and there was still no sign of Natalee. Me and some of my friends began to cry and started to seriously worry about Natalee. One of our teachers that was on the trip stayed behind and called Natalee's parents and told them to head down to Aruba immediately that Natalee didn't return home from the bar the night before. All of us were freaking out and didn't know what to do. We had tried to stay behind with our teacher but they wouldn't let us.

The night we got home everyone came over to my house to spend the night and we had heard that there was to be an announcement on the news stating that Natalee Holloway was missing on a graduation trip and hadn't returned home from Aruba. All of us were in shock and had a really hard time dealing with everything that was going on. We didn't know what to do and had no clue that our lives were about to change. One of our best friends had gone missing and we didn't know if she was dead or alive.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 07, 2008, 07:37:23 PM
Posted by Debbie, BFN

Mackin McKinney Blog (Natalee's Friend)

http://mackinmckinney.blogspot.com/2008/04/natalee-holloway.html

Sunday, April 6, 2008

Natalee Holloway
 
We had just had celebrated our big high school graduation and were scheduled to go to Aruba the next morning. There were one hundred and twenty five of our best friends going down to celebrate after finally graduating from Mountain Brook High School. A group of us had spent the night at my house the so that we could get up early and all head to the airport together. We talked about all the fun things we wanted to do and how excited we all were, as we were all completely oblivious to what was about to happen. I never would have guessed that this would be the last time that Natalee would be in my house with all of us.

Our flight was scheduled to leave at seven in the morning so we had to get up very early. None of us really had slept the night before because we were all too excited. We finally arrived in Aruba and were greeted by buses that were going to take us to our resort. It was an all inclusive hotel that had tons of places to eat and bars on the property. We had to decide who was going to be in our rooms before we arrived and there was a door that opened to the next room to combine them. Natalee and I shared a room with two other girls along with four more of our friends in the next room. Everyone was so excited that we immediately put on our bathing suits and headed to the pool. The first night everyone decided to stay at the hotel and just go to the bars and the casinos. We were having a ball and everyone was so laid back and care free.

As our trip was coming to a close on our last night everyone decided that we were going to ride the bus into town and go to the hot spot Carlos and Charlies. We were scheduled to go out on a day cruise on a sailboat for the day and then were going to go home and eat dinner before we headed out for our big night on the town. The sailboat was amazing and there was a bar on the boat so all of us were laying out on the front of the boat getting sun and enjoying our tropical drinks. Natalee and all of us began to talk about these guys that we had met in the casino the night before and how they had said that they were going to go to Carlos and Charlies also. None of us really had wanted to be around them, but they had come to our hotel and started conversation with all of us.

We got in from the day out on the water and ran to our rooms to shower and get ready for dinner and a crazy last night in Aruba. After enjoying a nice dinner at the hotel, all of us loaded up onto the buses and headed into town. The bar was so crowded and everyone began drinking and dancing. The bar tenders were getting people on stage to compete in contest and of course all of our friends were on stage. It began getting late and the bar was closing so all of us were forced outside into the street. Most of the group was together, but none of us could find Natalee. The bar was so crazy when everyone was leaving that there was no trying to find someone cause everyone was pushing and shoving and of course had lots to drink. Everyone began cramming into cabs and headed back to the hotel. There was another group that had gone to another bar so most of us figured Natalee had gone with them. Everyone was exhausted and ready to go to bed so when we got back to the hotel we fell right to sleep.

We woke up the next morning to find that Natalee was not in our room and figured that she had just stayed in another room. Natalee was never the type to be late and would never miss something like a flight home. It was getting close to the time we were supposed to leave for the airport and there was still no sign of Natalee. Me and some of my friends began to cry and started to seriously worry about Natalee. One of our teachers that was on the trip stayed behind and called Natalee's parents and told them to head down to Aruba immediately that Natalee didn't return home from the bar the night before. All of us were freaking out and didn't know what to do. We had tried to stay behind with our teacher but they wouldn't let us.

The night we got home everyone came over to my house to spend the night and we had heard that there was to be an announcement on the news stating that Natalee Holloway was missing on a graduation trip and hadn't returned home from Aruba. All of us were in shock and had a really hard time dealing with everything that was going on. We didn't know what to do and had no clue that our lives were about to change. One of our best friends had gone missing and we didn't know if she was dead or alive.


... The bus ride to Carlos 'N Charlies did not take place immediately following dinner ... Natalee and friends went to the black jack table at the Excelsior where the encounter with Joran and Paulus van der Sloot took place.

Janet

+++++++++++

Katherine (Madison) Whatley
FBI Statement
July 12, 2005


After swimming at the hotel on Sunday, WHATLEY and other classmates, including HOLLOWAY, ate dinner at a restaurant next to the hotel. After dinner they went to the casino at the hotel. A few classmates were gambling at a card table along with an "older man" and YURON VAN DER SLOOT. (Whatley 302)


Beth Twitty
Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
September 19, 2005


HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ..... I dont think there was ever a question that Joran and Paulus Van Der Sloot had been in that Excelsior Casino, and, particularly, on the night of the 29th where he and his father met Natalee.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9407728/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 07, 2008, 07:38:14 PM
Thank you Pita.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Nut44x4 on April 07, 2008, 07:54:58 PM
Other things in there don't seem to match with what we have been told, as well.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 07, 2008, 08:10:57 PM
Other things in there don't seem to match with what we have been told, as well.

I see that Jon/Shizaru in the comment section of the blog has mentioned the descrepancies.  Also Robin Holloway is trying to contact her.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: caesu on April 07, 2008, 08:37:41 PM
(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/7513/thtokmb8.jpg)

dutch blog in english about holloway file

http://hollowaynews.blogspot.com/

scroll all the way down for the archive.
there are some articles down there i haven't read before.


also has tons of information about the wilders/fitna/islam-situation.

http://wildersnews.blogspot.com/

all in english.
i don't know who runs this blog but the've got dossiers/files on both wilders and holloway.
i've been linking those to for months now.

i am sure if wilders gets in power or at least win big in an election he will sort out the aruban corruption situation.


i don't fully support wilders on all issues at all but this current balkenende government is just a sick joke.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 07, 2008, 08:39:44 PM
Thanks Caesu!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 07, 2008, 08:46:11 PM
(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/7513/thtokmb8.jpg)

dutch blog in english about holloway file

http://hollowaynews.blogspot.com/

scroll all the way down for the archive.
there are some articles down there i haven't read before.


also has tons of information about the wilders/fitna/islam-situation.

http://wildersnews.blogspot.com/

all in english.
i don't know who runs this blog but the've got dossiers/files on both wilders and holloway.
i've been linking those to for months now.

i am sure if wilders gets in power or at least win big in an election he will sort out the aruban corruption situation.


i don't fully support wilders on all issues at all but this current balkenende government is just a sick joke.

Thank you caesu.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 07, 2008, 09:09:17 PM


Orangestad=chollerstad
  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Blue Moon on April 07, 2008, 09:19:11 PM
Who is this Mackin McKinney?  I don't remember ever hearing that name.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 07, 2008, 09:28:56 PM
Who is this Mackin McKinney?  I don't remember ever hearing that name.

I don't remember ever hearing the name either.  Maybe Mackin McKinney is their "pen" name?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 07, 2008, 10:21:53 PM
Who is this Mackin McKinney?  I don't remember ever hearing that name.

I don't remember ever hearing the name either.  Maybe Mackin McKinney is their "pen" name?

From Google search...related to NH case

 Mackin Elizabeth McKinney of Birmingham, daughter of Leah Mackin McKinney and Lewis Carlyle McKinney


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 07, 2008, 10:44:51 PM

2005 Mountain Brook High Graduates
Thursday, May 26, 2005

Mountain Brook High School commencement was May 24 at the Wright Performing Arts Center.


Honor graduates are Milner Benedict Owens, Casey Lawrence Raymond, Alexander Jobe Fix, Joanna Michelle Smith, Jori Ellen May, Carlie Hannah Stein, Sarah Eleanor Israel, Thomas Andrew Davis Jr., Yang Cao, Joseph Anthony Carley IV, Matthew McClelland Lukens, Amy Powell Roebuck, Edward Urban Kissel IV, Marquerite Lee Lucas, Allison Amanda Mays and Katherine Lynn Bluhm.

Class officers are Seth Capper, president; Katherine Miller, vice president; Mallory Sylvester, secretary; and Milner Owens, treasurer.

Candidates for graduation:

Sarah Brannon Ager, Robert Thurman Agnew III, Yelena Iosifovna Aleksandrovich, Sara Emily Allen, Jennifer Deborah Allon, Frank Martin Alverson Jr., Alexandra Ruth Anderson, Natalie Stewart Anderson, Taylor Brookings Anderson, Nicholas Arciniegas, Elizabeth Garrabrant Ard, Ann Sara Ascherman, Alvah Votelle Barron IV, McLean Carlisle Bean, Blayke Hanan Bearman, Craig Shipley Beatty, Catherine Elizabeth Beckham, Brandon Heath Benson, Dewi Aryanthi Billano, Ariel Bitran, Hannah Stewart Black, Barbara Blount Blackburn, Colin Adams McNeer Blanton, Katherine Lynn Bluhm, Danielle Lynn Bogart, Ryan Jay Broda, Kevin Louis Broday, Steven Isaac Bromberg, Lee Ashford Broughton, Anne Campbell Brown, Holly Graves Brown, Jeremy Edward Brown, Katherine Lee Brown, Ruth Ann Brown, Allison Elizabeth Bullington, Kathleen Davis Burg, April Suzanne Burgin, Sarah Payne Burton, Christopher Alfred Bush, Frances Ellen Byrd, William Randolph Byrd, Elizabeth Lewis Cain, Jessica Ann Caiola, David Preston Camp, Andrew Todd Campbell, John Holmes Cantrell, Yang Cao, Seth Frederic Capper, Joseph Anthony Carley IV, Patrick William Carey, Nicholas Salvatore Carley, Brandon Victor Carlisle, Elizabeth Anne Cezayirli, James Barnett Chenoweth III, Tatum Elizabeth Clanton, Ashley Nicole Cobb, Philip David Cohn, Phillip Mason Colgin, Ann Belton Collins, Megan Olivia Collins, Christopher Adam Cook, Gaines Richmond Cooper, Rebecca Ann Cooper, Wiley Howard Cooper V, Richard Thomas Corbett Jr., Jamie Blaine Davis, Thomas Andrew Davis Jr., Lauren Anne Deierhoi, Jessica Anne Delo, Shannon Elizabeth Denney, Griffin Fleming Dewey, Katherine Parker Dillard, D. Alan Dillenberg IV, Jonathan Brent DiNicholas, Mason Dean Donovan, Isa Gavrielle Dorsky, Marwan Nabil Douban, Kareth Alane Dow, William Maring Drennen, Dawson Elizabeth Drinkard, Mary Ellen Dumas, Spence Michael Taylor Dye, Anne Martine Elliott, George Bondurant Elliott III, Jennifer Mallay Fain, Amy Elizabeth Fall, Claire Stuart Fierman, Alexander Jobe Fix, Julie Michelle Fleming, Richard Abbey Force, Molly Coker Fowler, Michael Ethan Friedman, Elizabeth Ann Gaffney, Julia Sims Garcia, Brooke Marie Gardner, Emily Cora Gaston, Stephanie Lynn Geldzahler, Thomas Edward Gleason, Allison Gayle Goldberg, Cristina Cecilia Gomez, Andrew Mackenzie Green, Elizabeth Marie Haley, Leon Columbus Hamrick III, Miller Field Hamrick, Thomas Bryan Hargett, Virginia Anne Harkins, Jack Allen Harris II, Lindsey Lee Hart, Rebeka Brawford Haynes, Wesley Logan Haywood, Minnie Bell Haynes Healey, John O'Sullivan Henderson, Katie Louise Henley, Avery Lauren Henry, Trevor Allen Stewart Holder, Natalee Ann Holloway, David Andrew Horton, Greer Mack Horton IV, William Garrett Horton, Elizabeth Patton Howard, Marjorie Jackson Howard, James Phillip Huggins Jr., Sean Christopher Hussey, David Gregory Hymer, Robert Christopher Israel, Sarah Eleanor Israel, Richard Lee Jackson III, Mary Conyers Jernigan, Carly Lauren Johnson, Wright Sterling Johnson, Kelley Elizabeth Joiner, Alana Janelle Jordan, Elizabeth Lawson Jordan, Laura Taylor Jordan, Noel Amberson Jordan, Michael William Jordan Jr., James Frank Justice, Joseph Paul Kalin, Sarah Adele Kalin, Christopher Liang Kao, Stephanie Leigh Karagas, John Hunter Kearney, Raleigh Barbee Kent IV, Natalie Beth Kianoff, Alex Oliver Kimerling, Isabella Naumann Kimerling, Victoria Patton Kimerling, Edward Urban Kissel IV, Thomas Edward Kitsmiller Jr., Vicki Anne Koslin, Kathryn Bowdoin Lalor, Justyn Elizabeth Lamb, William Mark Landau, Kay Houston Lanier, Cole Martin Lanter, Noah Abraham Larsen, Tracy Rae Lazarus, Amanda Jean Lee, Martha Martin Legg, Eleanor Paulette Lewis, Mark Aaron Litvine, Rachel Anne Lofton, Marguerite Lee Lucas, Matthew McClelland Lukens, Anna Louise Lynch, Frank Morgan Lynch III, Kendall Walton Maddox II, Elizabeth Margot Major, Stephen Christopher Marino, Charles Douglas Martin Jr., Allie Franks Matthews, Jori Ellen May, Allison Amanda Mays, Ryan David Mazer, Thomas Reid McBrayer, John Chappel McCollister, Samuel Robert McCord, Mary Frances McDougald, Kurry Lynn McElveen, Michael Odum McGill, Mackin Elizabeth McKinney, Ruth Berrien McVay, Sean Michael McVea, Lillian Chambliss Mears, Thomas Lee Merrill III, Melissa Faye Middlebrook, Benjiman Howard Miller, Carlos Eduardo Miller, Katherine Elizabeth Miller, Katherine McTyeire Millhouse, Bradley Daniel Morgan, Emily O'Neal Morgan, Enoch Carter Morris IV, Margaret Whitney Morris, Michael O'Neal Morris, William Coleman Morris, Thomas Michael Morrison Jr., Russell Hardy Murphy, Katherine Mary Evelyn Myers, Patrick Ryan Nappi, Tor Zachariah Nelkin, John Hughston Nichols, Andrew Jackson Noble IV, Rachel Eve Nomberg, Michael Patrick Taylor O'Neal, Milner Benedict Owens, Virginia O'Neal Page, Samuel Tate Patterson, Marian Courtney Patton, Casey Carlisle Payne, Caroline Carson Perkins, Joseph Hunter Phillips IV, Robert William Plumb Jr., Franklin Adams Pritchard Jr., James Moody Proctor III, Thomas Michael Putnam, David Walton Rader, Thornton Hope Ratliff, Bruce Alan Rawls Jr., Casey Lawrence Raymond, Christopher William Reuther, Bryan Montgomery Reynolds, Daniel Wesley Richeson Jr., Brian Connor Riser, Sarah Savannah Roach, Anna Catherine Roberson, Mary Elizabeth Roberson, Amy Powell Roebuck, Carly Rogoff Richard, Irvin Roth Jr., Christina Ashley Rountree, Emily Beth Rousso, Matthew Pelham Rowan, Katie Michelle Rushing, Stephanie Lynn Saia, Kristen Janeil Sandefer, Stephen Tyler Sandlin, Rachel Christine Saxon, John Slade Screven Jr., Mary-Katherine Sellers, Valgerdur Nielsen Sherer, Abby Lee Siegel, Jessica Lee Simmons, Mary Elizabeth Sims, Joanna Michelle Smith, Lauren Dyann Smith, Miriam Ann Smith, Spenser Holloran Smith, Marie Margaret Smyly, Sara Marie Smyly, James Nicklaus Stacy, Stephen Murray Statham, Carlie Hannah Stein, Yona Stein, Shannon Louise Stewart, Rebecca Claire Stivender, Kathryn Elizabeth Swecker, Mallory Kate Sylvester, Alice Tang, Molly DuBois Tate, George Clinton Thompson Jr., David Vandiver Thorpe, John Evan Tompkins, William Edward Traylor, Catherine Scott Tucker, Mallie Elizabeth Tucker, Mark Richardson Tucker Jr., Lane Perritt Turbeville, Thomas Allan Twitty, William Hunter Twitty, Haleigh Nicole Uncapher, Christopher Forbes Vargo, Jackson Robert Vaughan, Murry Caldwell Vaughan Jr., Andrew Fitz Randolph von Kuhn, Kyle Lawrence Wall, Margaret Brooks Wall, Elizabeth Cade Walston, Rachel Katherine Walton, Whitney Littrell Warwick, Margaret Frances Watson, Nancy Laraine Watson, Ryan Mathew Watson, Katherine Jane Weatherly, James Paul Weinacker, Allie Michelle Weiner, Joevelyn Welden, Brent Matthew Westlake, Katherine Madison Whatley, Thomas Hunter Molton Williams, Millard Lamar Williamson III, Crossley Edward Willis III, Mary Lassiter Wood, Katherine Ann Wright, Vivian Brooking Yeilding, Emily Grace Zeigler

http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/south.ssf?/base/community/1117133115430711.xml&coll=2






Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 07, 2008, 10:53:09 PM
http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/Statements_timeline.htm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 07, 2008, 11:09:18 PM
Discovery Log/Timeline

June 22, 2005 - Aruban police detain Jorans father, Paulus van der Sloot, for questioning, and arrest him the same day.
 
Satish Kalpoe
Interrogation of a suspect - requests 28, 41,
6/22/05
17:10
Erasmus/Boezem
 
Jessica Caiola
Interview
Birmingham
6/22/05
Finno

 
John Charles Croes
6/22/05
Dennis Jacobs
 
Maria Da Figaroa
Friend of Steve Croes / C&C employee
6/22/05
18:05
Giovanni Heyliger
 
John David Plum
Boat owner
6/22/05
11:00
Fleur Tromp
 
Marciano Geerman
Boat owner
6/22/05
11:00
Fleur Tromp
 
Ken Mata
Airport employee
6/22/05
8:50
Josmar Koolman
 
Carmela Carlet
Wyndham front desk employee
Wyndham
6/22/05
18:35
Patricia Wendriks
 
Urbano Croes
Excelsior Casino manager
Excelsior
6/22/05
10:30
Juan Boezem / Johny Erasmus
 
Alexandera Polyzou
Raddison Casino manager
Raddison
6/22/05
12:15
Juan Boezem / Johny Erasmus
 
Malory Kate Sylvester
Interview
Birmingham
6/23/05
Waller
 
Jeremy Edward Brown
Interview
Birmingham
6/23/05
Conrad
 
Jeremy Edward Brown
Interview
Birmingham
6/23/05
Conrad
 
Katherine Miller
Interview
Birmingham
6/23/05
 
Virginia Page
Interview
Birmingham
6/23/05
Finno
 
Stephanie Lynn Geldzahler
Interview
Birmingham
6/23/05
Keeler
 
George Clinton Thompson Jr.
Interview
Birmingham
6/23/05
Walker
 
Emily Beth Russo
Interview
Birmingham
6/23/05
Waller
 
Elizabeth Mayer
Interview
Birmingham
6/23/05
Wannamaker


George Jug Twitty
Interview
Aruba
6/23/05
Patterson
 
Beth Ann Twitty
Interview
Aruba
6/23/05
Patterson
 
Julia Simms Garcia
Interview
Birmingham
6/23/07
Keeler

 
Guido Wever
6/23/05
J.G. Bentvlezen
 
Satish Kalpoe
Interrogation of a suspect - requests 28, 41,
6/23/05
15:35
Erasmus/De Cuba
 
Karen Martina
Friend of V/D sloots & Arambatzis'
6/23/05
13:55
Dennis Jacobs / Juan Boezem
 
Allie Matthews
Interview
Birmingham
6/24/05

Wannamaker
 
Anna Catherine Robertson
Interview
Birmingham
6/24/05
Carreiro

 
Marguerite Lucas
Interview
Birmingham
6/24/05
Wannamaker

 
Sean McVea
Interview
Birmingham
6/24/05
Wannamaker

 
Mackin McKinney
Interview
Birmingham
6/24/05
Wannamaker
 
Bryan Montgomery Reynolds
Intervew
Birmingham
6/24/05
Carreiro

 
Bruce Alan Rawls Jr
Interview
Birmingham
6/24/05
Carreiro

 
John Nichols
Interview
Birmingham
6/24/05
Finno

 
Michael Patrick Taylor O'Neal
Interview
Birmingham
6/24/05
Finno

 
Milner Owens
Interview
Birmingham
6/24/05
Finno

 
Thomas Yuen Song Chung
Manager of Wyndham Casino
Wyndham
6/24/05
19:30
Juan Boezem
 
Karen Martina
Friend of V/D sloots & Arambatzis'

http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/Statements_timeline.htm

 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 07, 2008, 11:10:54 PM
http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/Statements_timeline.htm
http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/Statements_timeline.htm

KLAAS...is this already in docs here?

Destiny


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 07, 2008, 11:11:10 PM
Destiny ...   ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 07, 2008, 11:12:37 PM
Good Night Monkeys

Janet
8:15 PM


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 07, 2008, 11:14:02 PM
Destiny ...   ::MonkeyShocked::

Yep...I'm pretty sure it's Mackin McKinneys' homepage docs....Great Work Janet....you like to jump on things like I do!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 07, 2008, 11:21:01 PM
http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/Statements_timeline.htm
http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/Statements_timeline.htm

KLAAS...is this already in docs here?

Destiny

Yes, in the Important Case Document area


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 07, 2008, 11:21:09 PM
Good Night Monkeys

Janet
8:15 PM

Nite Janet.....You dedicate so very much...I bow to you the, *blog goddess* ;-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 07, 2008, 11:21:44 PM
Nite Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 07, 2008, 11:21:52 PM
I would really like to know who those guys were...seems to be more than one...I am willing to bet some of them were...Joran, Freddy, GVC, Guido, Jaime, Koen, and or Sander....anyone wanna bet against me?  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 07, 2008, 11:22:51 PM
http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/Statements_timeline.htm
http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/Statements_timeline.htm

KLAAS...is this already in docs here?

Destiny

Yes, in the Important Case Document area

TY Klaas...I'm not the smartest Monkey in the tree...but, I still try to keep up...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 07, 2008, 11:24:04 PM
I would really like to know who those guys were...seems to be more than one...I am willing to bet some of them were...Joran, Freddy, GVC, Guido, Jaime, Koen, and or Sander....anyone wanna bet against me?  ::MonkeyCool::

Yep and Andre dos Santos too  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 07, 2008, 11:24:22 PM
I would really like to know who those guys were...seems to be more than one...I am willing to bet some of them were...Joran, Freddy, GVC, Guido, Jaime, Koen, and or Sander....anyone wanna bet against me?  ::MonkeyCool::

Stuffing wallet *deep* into purse...nope ;-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 07, 2008, 11:28:38 PM
Destiny ...   ::MonkeyShocked::

Yep...I'm pretty sure it's Mackin McKinneys' homepage docs....Great Work Janet....you like to jump on things like I do!!!

Destiny ... you jump faster.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

My wonderful DIL is about to clean up my desktop Natalee files while son will joining us the card game.

I am nervous about her touching my files but ... I know it will be so much more easy to locate topics when she is finished.  However ... I had youngest son backup my files earlier today ... just in case.

I have nightmares just thinking about all my Natalee files going "poof".  It happened a little over a year ago when the power went out during a windstorm.

::MonkeyShocked::

Thankfully ... youngest son had back up my files one week prior.  He immediately became my favorite child.  I told him not to tell his brother and sister.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 07, 2008, 11:31:15 PM
Good Night again Monkeys ... this time I mean it.

Janet
8:30 PM


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 07, 2008, 11:36:09 PM
Destiny ...   ::MonkeyShocked::

Yep...I'm pretty sure it's Mackin McKinneys' homepage docs....Great Work Janet....you like to jump on things like I do!!!

Destiny ... you jump faster.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

My wonderful DIL is about to clean up my desktop Natalee files while son will joining us the card game.

I am nervous about her touching my files but ... I know it will be so much more easy to locate topics when she is finished.  However ... I had youngest son backup my files earlier today ... just in case.

I have nightmares just thinking about all my Natalee files going "poof".  It happened a little over a year ago when the power went out during a windstorm.

::MonkeyShocked::

Thankfully ... youngest son had back up my files one week prior.  He immediately became my favorite child.  I told him not to tell his brother and sister.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet

Janet...I consider YOU a *premier* finder of information, for all of us Monkeys...I really do!....You make me think more than anyone else...I *learn* from YOU....Thank You....

I love reading about your Family...I never really had a nondisfunctional family...I have *chosen* YOU to be part of my Virtual, Family Of Choice,
Please, keep teaching me... ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 08, 2008, 12:01:35 AM
My...*personal opinion*...Jossey...*if* not part of their cover-up...*is* now...for whatever reason, known only to him...I didn't *feel* this way before now...but, now I do...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 08, 2008, 12:09:22 AM
My...*personal opinion*...Jossey...*if* not part of their cover-up...*is* now...for whatever reason, known only to him...I didn't *feel* this way before now...but, now I do...

Well his brother only did get 6 months for money laundering,drug trafficking and firing a gun at police officers. Maybe he made a deal? No doubt in my mind Jossy holds back on what he tells us.MO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 08, 2008, 12:13:31 AM
My...*personal opinion*...Jossey...*if* not part of their cover-up...*is* now...for whatever reason, known only to him...I didn't *feel* this way before now...but, now I do...

Well his brother only did get 6 months for money laundering,drug trafficking and firing a gun at police officers. Maybe he made a deal? No doubt in my mind Jossy holds back on what he tells us.MO

TY Lalas'...I agree...on one crappy island...they don't know anything else than...covering each others' butts...it's been the game plan for years...and years...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 08, 2008, 12:20:39 AM
Mos,De Witte and Commencia again are in the front pages of tomorrows Awemainta but no mention of Natalee. As we approach the 3 year mark of Natalee being missing I see they are promoting the Soul Beach Festival next month with the Beach Parties/After Concert parties and washed up entertainers like Sinbad. I see the contact person has the initials A.B.

What parties were happening after the SBF on May 29th 2005?

(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/3949/soulbeachwu4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 12:30:14 AM
I find it odd that Diario's online edition hasn't been updated since April 2nd


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 12:34:10 AM
I find it odd that Diario's online edition hasn't been updated since April 2nd

Maybe we could talk Destiny into calling them to find out why it hasn't been updated?  ::MonkeyWink::

Also I just thought of something, what if Jossy is sick or out of the country?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 08, 2008, 12:37:49 AM
I find it odd that Diario's online edition hasn't been updated since April 2nd

Me too Klaas...especially after I was told by Aureen, at Diario, everything she told me...I have no problem posting her name at this point...she emailed me, reguesting info...I gave it to her...she shared some back...then...all went dead...so typical of one crappy island...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 08, 2008, 12:42:12 AM
I find it odd that Diario's online edition hasn't been updated since April 2nd

That is odd..I find it strange that Jossy was so gung ho about raising hell for Natalee after JK2 were released and mentioned a minister being involved in owning Whore Houses in Venezuela and said he would name names,but never said anything more about it. I think that same minister went after Jossy after that article and shut him up. Not sure why he mentioned this in regards to Natalee but he did and I believe it to be relevent. Probably a hint..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 12:42:22 AM
I find it odd that Diario's online edition hasn't been updated since April 2nd

Me too Klaas...especially after I was told by Aureen, at Diario, everything she told me...I have no problem posting her name at this point...she emailed me, reguesting info...I gave it to her...she shared some back...then...all went dead...so typical of one crappy island...

It's wierd, something isn't right.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 08, 2008, 12:56:05 AM
I find it odd that Diario's online edition hasn't been updated since April 2nd

Me too Klaas...especially after I was told by Aureen, at Diario, everything she told me...I have no problem posting her name at this point...she emailed me, reguesting info...I gave it to her...she shared some back...then...all went dead...so typical of one crappy island...

It's wierd, something isn't right.

YES...something is not right...I was told, to watch for the next days' report on Diario Online...that she was/with others investigating the story...then...no more replies/contact...and, no updates on their site.

What Bullshit!!!....at least we have it documented here...and I saved all her emails to file...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 08, 2008, 01:01:36 AM
I find it odd that Diario's online edition hasn't been updated since April 2nd

Maybe we could talk Destiny into calling them to find out why it hasn't been updated?  ::MonkeyWink::

Also I just thought of something, what if Jossy is sick or out of the country?

Klass....I'll be more than glad to make any calls...just tell me what you want...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 08, 2008, 01:07:20 AM
I find it odd that Diario's online edition hasn't been updated since April 2nd

Maybe we could talk Destiny into calling them to find out why it hasn't been updated?  ::MonkeyWink::

Also I just thought of something, what if Jossy is sick or out of the country?

Klass...*if* Jossy is sick, or out of the country...does that mean that a major publication on Aruba just *STOPS*...I don't think so...what I ask is...who is in charge?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: texasmom on April 08, 2008, 01:12:08 AM
I find it odd that Diario's online edition hasn't been updated since April 2nd

Maybe we could talk Destiny into calling them to find out why it hasn't been updated?  ::MonkeyWink::

Also I just thought of something, what if Jossy is sick or out of the country?

Klass....I'll be more than glad to make any calls...just tell me what you want...
Somebody needs to email Jossy; or have Destiny give a call....yooohooo Diario....lol
Somethings up!  And this monkey would sure like to know what it is.   ::MonkeyRoll::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 01:18:26 AM
I find it odd that Diario's online edition hasn't been updated since April 2nd

Maybe we could talk Destiny into calling them to find out why it hasn't been updated?  ::MonkeyWink::

Also I just thought of something, what if Jossy is sick or out of the country?

Klass....I'll be more than glad to make any calls...just tell me what you want...

I was sortof joking.  I'm not sure what to make of Jossy's silence.  Not to mention the website not being updated.  Something is up.  Could Jossy have been threatened?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 01:19:46 AM
I find it odd that Diario's online edition hasn't been updated since April 2nd

Maybe we could talk Destiny into calling them to find out why it hasn't been updated?  ::MonkeyWink::

Also I just thought of something, what if Jossy is sick or out of the country?

Klass...*if* Jossy is sick, or out of the country...does that mean that a major publication on Aruba just *STOPS*...I don't think so...what I ask is...who is in charge?

Good question.  It doesn't make sense that the online paper just stops.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 08, 2008, 01:20:02 AM
I find it odd that Diario's online edition hasn't been updated since April 2nd

Maybe we could talk Destiny into calling them to find out why it hasn't been updated?  ::MonkeyWink::

Also I just thought of something, what if Jossy is sick or out of the country?

Klass....I'll be more than glad to make any calls...just tell me what you want...
Somebody needs to email Jossy; or have Destiny give a call....yooohooo Diario....lol
Somethings up!  And this monkey would sure like to know what it is.   ::MonkeyRoll::

TM...got your email...will reply...LOL

Yep...I feel the foundations shaking...I'll make any, and all calls, that the Monkeys want...I've been lied to...I'll make it right for me, and Natalee...in the only way I can...Karma...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 08, 2008, 01:23:23 AM
Jossy has a family just like everyone else...sometimes horse heads aren't the only thing you can use to get your point across...if you get what I mean?  ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 08, 2008, 01:26:19 AM
Jossy has a family just like everyone else...sometimes horse heads aren't the only thing you can use to get your point across...if you get what I mean?  ::MonkeyShocked::

Yep...hand in pocket...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: texasmom on April 08, 2008, 01:29:02 AM
Jossy has a family just like everyone else...sometimes horse heads aren't the only thing you can use to get your point across...if you get what I mean?  ::MonkeyShocked::

Yep...hand in pocket...
::MonkeyEek::  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 08, 2008, 01:30:05 AM
Destiny Calls!

" Oh no!  It's that Destiny monkey again!"

"Quick!  Let's go to lunch..maybe she will be gone when we get back."

" Good idea!  Why did they ever give her a phone?"

" I think she's the latest secret weapon from the monkeys."

" Shhhh!  Keep it down..she will hear you!"

"She's on the phone you idiot!"


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 01:35:22 AM
Destiny Calls!

" Oh no!  It's that Destiny monkey again!"

"Quick!  Let's go to lunch..maybe she will be gone when we get back."

" Good idea!  Why did they ever give her a phone?"

" I think she's the latest secret weapon from the monkeys."

" Shhhh!  Keep it down..she will hear you!"

"She's on the phone you idiot!"

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 08, 2008, 01:37:50 AM
Klaas
We are up to page 80 in the Shango thread...I will try to keep an eye out so maybe you can lock it on page 100 if that is okay? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 01:54:07 AM
Klaas
We are up to page 80 in the Shango thread...I will try to keep an eye out so maybe you can lock it on page 100 if that is okay? 

Lala's thanks!  I've been keeping and eye on it too.  They way you guys are going you'll reach page 100 tomorrow  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: GBMW on April 08, 2008, 04:27:35 AM
There is new info about Patricks book on his website: the first 7 chapters are finished en there will be 13 more....the book will have more than 300 pages!

 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

The more info the better!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: GBMW on April 08, 2008, 04:34:17 AM
Hello All   ::MonkeyCool::

My trip is complete and thanks for all the warm wishes..It is greatly appreciated as I made it safely and even got my internet hooked up the first day in my new house on a sunday!! ::MonkeyWink::

Could someone update me on anything new? TIA

Welcome back! Hope the move went well & you've settled a bit in your new house / surroundings!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: caesu on April 08, 2008, 05:22:04 AM
the cover of the book:
(http://patrickvandereem.nl/wp-content/cover-book.JPG)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Nut44x4 on April 08, 2008, 06:55:14 AM
I find it odd that Diario's online edition hasn't been updated since April 2nd

Me too Klaas...especially after I was told by Aureen, at Diario, everything she told me...I have no problem posting her name at this point...she emailed me, reguesting info...I gave it to her...she shared some back...then...all went dead...so typical of one crappy island...

It's wierd, something isn't right.


Could be that his wife and kids have been threatened. He has 2 beautiful daughters, that I know of. They would be perfect targets for these POS perverted waste of oxygen creeps.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Blonde on April 08, 2008, 08:42:32 AM
Sorry I jumped three threads to post this.

Natalee and all of us began to talk about these guys  that we had met in the casino the night before and how they had said that they were going to go to Carlos and Charlies also. None of us really had wanted to be around them, but they had come to our hotel and started conversation with all of us.

What GUYS


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 08:59:49 AM
Sorry I jumped three threads to post this.

Natalee and all of us began to talk about these guys  that we had met in the casino the night before and how they had said that they were going to go to Carlos and Charlies also. None of us really had wanted to be around them, but they had come to our hotel and started conversation with all of us.

What GUYS


Morning Blonde - I noticed that also... and I am wondering about all these statements / declarations that seem to magically turn into the older man with glasses and I am wondering if these guys are the guys in the cartoon by Gliberto or Dilberto or whatever the heck his name was. These guys can't be Paulus, could they? He was in Holland, so, he seems to be eliminated.

I hate to say this, but that Mackin account is just ahhh... ahhh... absent of known info and seems to put forth a very small amount of details... like others, I didn't remember the name and wonder - why now?

IIRC and I'm not sure I do, but didn't the MB kids go to CnC previously? and didn't a "Beau" almost get in a fight with Joran? I seem to remember this "Beau" was a football player and 5'-11" and weighted 225 lbs... so it seems to me this did happen or I would remember that many details. It doesn't seem to have happened on the night in question... or I could be wrong.





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 09:03:26 AM
by the way - the Cyril Wecht jury is deadlocked. This is the case where he is a accused of using county funds and equipment to hold off the costs of his private consulting firm. There are other charges also. Farming out cadavers and stuff like that. The jury is now in day 10 roughly in their deliberations. The judge is not declaring a mis-trial yet.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 10:01:41 AM
by the way - the Cyril Wecht jury is deadlocked. This is the case where he is a accused of using county funds and equipment to hold off the costs of his private consulting firm. There are other charges also. Farming out cadavers and stuff like that. The jury is now in day 10 roughly in their deliberations. The judge is not declaring a mis-trial yet.

mis-trial declared.

41 charges will be re-tried.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 10:02:38 AM
Diario still not updated....odd ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 08, 2008, 10:02:56 AM
Morning monkeys!  I have a  few quick questions. Maybe someone will know the answers, for some reason I can't ever recall discussing this before, but then again I miss a lot.

What are the hours of operation of the party boat the Tattoo that Steve Croes worked on?

What EXACTLY was Steve Croes job on that boat?   

Thanks!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 08, 2008, 10:05:19 AM
Sorry I jumped three threads to post this.

Natalee and all of us began to talk about these guys  that we had met in the casino the night before and how they had said that they were going to go to Carlos and Charlies also. None of us really had wanted to be around them, but they had come to our hotel and started conversation with all of us.

What GUYS


Morning Blonde - I noticed that also... and I am wondering about all these statements / declarations that seem to magically turn into the older man with glasses and I am wondering if these guys are the guys in the cartoon by Gliberto or Dilberto or whatever the heck his name was. These guys can't be Paulus, could they? He was in Holland, so, he seems to be eliminated.

I hate to say this, but that Mackin account is just ahhh... ahhh... absent of known info and seems to put forth a very small amount of details... like others, I didn't remember the name and wonder - why now?

IIRC and I'm not sure I do, but didn't the MB kids go to CnC previously? and didn't a "Beau" almost get in a fight with Joran? I seem to remember this "Beau" was a football player and 5'-11" and weighted 225 lbs... so it seems to me this did happen or I would remember that many details. It doesn't seem to have happened on the night in question... or I could be wrong.





If you have ever read any of those 302's you will see how little is in them.  There is very little info to help anyone there...either the FBI did not write down some facts as to keep them unknown or those kids had very little to say or maybe did not recall enough to details to be helpful.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 10:06:07 AM
Morning monkeys!  I have a  few quick questions. Maybe someone will know the answers, for some reason I can't ever recall discussing this before, but then again I miss a lot.

What are the hours of operation of the party boat the Tattoo that Steve Croes worked on?

What EXACTLY was Steve Croes job on that boat?   

Thanks!

Not sure about the hours Lala's.  Steve was a DJ on the Tattoo.  It's possible that he sometimes drove it as well.  I believe he was supposed to be staying on the Tattoo that night as security and was fired because he wasn't doing his job. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 08, 2008, 10:20:15 AM
Morning monkeys!  I have a  few quick questions. Maybe someone will know the answers, for some reason I can't ever recall discussing this before, but then again I miss a lot.

What are the hours of operation of the party boat the Tattoo that Steve Croes worked on?

What EXACTLY was Steve Croes job on that boat?   

Thanks!

Not sure about the hours Lala's.  Steve was a DJ on the Tattoo.  It's possible that he sometimes drove it as well.  I believe he was supposed to be staying on the Tattoo that night as security and was fired because he wasn't doing his job. 


Actually, I want to know if he was working the two days before...and how late. 



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 08, 2008, 10:28:29 AM
Diario still not updated....odd ::MonkeyEek::

OK...so I called...was told to use this addy:

http://diarioaruba.com/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 08, 2008, 10:29:24 AM
Good Monkey Monkeys

Klaas ... are the 302's (FBI) stored on the site?  If so ... where?

Thank you

Janet
7:30 AM


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: AZSunny on April 08, 2008, 10:30:35 AM
Morning monkeys!  I have a  few quick questions. Maybe someone will know the answers, for some reason I can't ever recall discussing this before, but then again I miss a lot.

What are the hours of operation of the party boat the Tattoo that Steve Croes worked on?

What EXACTLY was Steve Croes job on that boat?   

Thanks!

Not sure about the hours Lala's.  Steve was a DJ on the Tattoo.  It's possible that he sometimes drove it as well.  I believe he was supposed to be staying on the Tattoo that night as security and was fired because he wasn't doing his job. 


I don't think it has typical "hours of operation".  They offer party cruises, and those type of cruises typically have a day time cruise and a sunset cruise.  I would assume they need a minimum number of guests to conduct the cruise and maybe not be offered every day of the week.  I wonder if their website, if still up states the times?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: AZSunny on April 08, 2008, 10:31:37 AM
LaLa, I think that Rob went on the Tattoo several years ago, maybe he can help you. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Buckeye on April 08, 2008, 10:32:34 AM
Morning monkeys!  I have a  few quick questions. Maybe someone will know the answers, for some reason I can't ever recall discussing this before, but then again I miss a lot.

What are the hours of operation of the party boat the Tattoo that Steve Croes worked on?

What EXACTLY was Steve Croes job on that boat?   

Thanks!

Not sure about the hours Lala's.  Steve was a DJ on the Tattoo.  It's possible that he sometimes drove it as well.  I believe he was supposed to be staying on the Tattoo that night as security and was fired because he wasn't doing his job. 

I also remember reading somewhere that the Tatoo had a cleaning crew, that only cleaned after a party, for obvious reasons, and that the DJ was not part of any cleaning crew.  My guess is, that a DJ would not be pulling security detail either.

 :smt102


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 10:33:14 AM
LaLa's - I have been on the Tattoo twice. As I remember you get down to the dock around 7 PM or so. It's just getting dark. Then you hang on the little pier bar until the small shuttle begins to pick up about 20 or so people at a time. So it takes a little while until everyone is on board. I believe about 300 people is the max allowed.

The ship serves a chicken and bean type dinner. The food is ok.. just ok...

and then the ship makes it's way down the coast to the southern area - just a little south of Oranjestad and then returns back to the pier. I would guess the whole trip is about 3 hours. The ship does not move very fast. I do not know how fast it moves, but when there are a lot of waves and high seas, the ship does rock and roll a good bit.

I doubt this ship could be used to make the trip out where the Persistence was hammered. But what do I know LOL... ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 10:33:45 AM
Diario still not updated....odd ::MonkeyEek::

OK...so I called...was told to use this addy:

http://diarioaruba.com/

Thanks Destiny!  That is their old address/format.  Wonder why?  At least it is updated  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 10:36:12 AM
Diario still not updated....odd ::MonkeyEek::

I was thinking about this last night... how could they miss the "murder" of the century? this never has happened on Aruba before.

maybe the webmaster is on vacation in Holland and no one else knows the password to get on the site?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 10:36:16 AM
Good Monkey Monkeys

Klaas ... are the 302's (FBI) stored on the site?  If so ... where?

Thank you

Janet
7:30 AM


Only a couple of them in the Important Case Document area.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 10:44:08 AM
Klaas, I can't seem to find a picture of Rufo Solonigier and Steve Croes from when he got outta jail.. do you have one? I'm going to make a small chart graph for the Shango / Simian thread.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 10:56:43 AM
Klaas, I can't seem to find a picture of Rufo Solonigier and Steve Croes from when he got outta jail.. do you have one? I'm going to make a small chart graph for the Shango / Simian thread.

I have one but can't get to it right now.  Let me check the Important Case document area and see if it's there.

Edited to add:  Nope, not there. Someone posted it just the other day though.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 11:02:23 AM
Klaas, I can't seem to find a picture of Rufo Solonigier and Steve Croes from when he got outta jail.. do you have one? I'm going to make a small chart graph for the Shango / Simian thread.

I have one but can't get to it right now.  Let me check the Important Case document area and see if it's there.

Edited to add:  Nope, not there. Someone posted it just the other day though.

Thank you... maybe it will re-appear... I'll wait til then to make the chart. Thanks again for looking.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 08, 2008, 11:06:42 AM
STEVE CROES AND GEOFFREY VAN CROMVOIRT CONNECTION

It appears that Steve Croes was fired for leaving his night shift as a watchman on the Tattoo.

My theory implies that it was Geoffrey van Cromvoirt and Steve Croes who assisted Paulus in moving Natalee's body which had been hidden by Joran, Deepak and Satish in the bushes.

Geoffrey van Cromvoirt was not detained as a formal susect until April, 2006.  However he was assigned the same attorney as Steve Croes.  Karin Janssen had implied that this was conflict of interest when one attorney was represented both Security Guards.

Janet

+++++++++++
 
Karl Penhaul - CNN correspondent
NANCY GRACE
June 17, 2005


PENHAUL: We don`t have that answer yet. We are looking into that to see what the boat`s movements were. We do know from the owner, Marcus Williams (sic), that Steve Croes did have a key to the boat. But the owner also tells us that the boat has a special electronic security system on it and he doesn`t believe that Steve Croes would have been able to take the boat without his permission. And he has described Steve Croes as a model employee, Nancy.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/17/ng.01.html


Steve Croes
NANCY GRACE
June 29, 2005


S. CROES: Well, I just start talking everything the truth, like where I was that day, the day I had, like, a night shift on the boat, like as a watchman. So I was sleeping on the boat. And, yes, that I wasn`t even there.  

GRACE: Is it true that you have been fired from your job over this whole thing?

S. CROES: Yes. Yesterday during the afternoon I had, like, this meeting with my ex-boss and his lawyer, and they told me that I was fired.  

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/29/ng.01.html


Beth Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
April 18, 2005


TWITTY: ... And when I think of Joran van der Sloot and when I think of Steven Croes and I think of this new suspect (GVC) and the lies that were coming out early, very early, the moment we arrived on the island, if we find out that these three suspects are acquaintances or know each other somebody needs to connect  the dots. I mean, there certainly is a reason why Steven Croes came forward early on and stated, lied to the authorities that he had seen the two security guards taking Natalee. You know, people don't just do that for no reason, Greta. Somebody needs to connect the dots on those three, if they know each other.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,192141,00.html


John Q. Kelly
On the Record w/ Greta
April 19, 2006


VAN SUSTEREN: John, what I heard a little bit earlier today from someone I spoke to in Aruba is that the lawyer for "G.V.C." is also the lawyer it's a woman who represented Steve Croes, who is the man who came forward with the false alibi to the police which supported lie number one of Deepak, Satish and Joran. Do you know anything about the lawyer representing both Steve Croes and now "G.V.C."?

KELLY: I know that's the situation. It's a woman, and that is the person who represented Croes and would be representing this individual now. And actually, Ms. Janssen, when I talked to her today, she was just getting ready to turn over the dossier to "G.V.C.'s" attorney for review before they did go into court.

VAN SUSTEREN: Now, Steve Croes, John it was sort of a curious thing. He came forward seemingly out of the blue and said that he witnessed Deepak, Satish and Joran dropping Natalee off at the Holiday Inn and stumbling, and then two security guards coming up. That was a complete lie that he sort of volunteered, went to the police. He was taken into custody. He was then released. Is he free and clear of all of this, or is he still somewhat in the mix?

<snipped>

VAN SUSTEREN: Then it's bizarre that this lawyer would represent both Steve Croes and GVC because at least here in the United States, I think most lawyers would say that there is a potential for conflict of interest and a lawyer shouldn't be representing both.

KELLY: I think that's right ...  

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,192309,00.html


Chris Lejuez
NANCY GRACE
June 17, 2005


LEJUEZ: I have been the defense attorney for both of them for the last two days. But as of tomorrow, I will be only for one of them, because apparently there will be a conflict of interest in defending them both. This has been told to me by the public prosecutor, so I will be resigning from one of the cases. I have no evidence yet that, that is the case, but I do take her word for it.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/07/ng.01.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 08, 2008, 11:09:24 AM
Good Monkey Monkeys

Klaas ... are the 302's (FBI) stored on the site?  If so ... where?

Thank you

Janet
7:30 AM


Only a couple of them in the Important Case Document area.

Thank you Klaas.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: vms on April 08, 2008, 11:11:24 AM
Klaas, I can't seem to find a picture of Rufo Solonigier and Steve Croes from when he got outta jail.. do you have one? I'm going to make a small chart graph for the Shango / Simian thread.

I have one but can't get to it right now.  Let me check the Important Case document area and see if it's there.

Edited to add:  Nope, not there. Someone posted it just the other day though.

Thank you... maybe it will re-appear... I'll wait til then to make the chart. Thanks again for looking.

Are you talking about the photo in the car with Steve, Rob?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 08, 2008, 11:13:01 AM
From Diarioaruba.com today...I think...

    

               No tin fecha official ainda pa dera famia Lampe

EUGENE GIANCARLO LAMPE A ADMITI SU CULPABILIDAD

Ayeranochi e curpanan a ser entrega na famia.

ORANJESTAD(AAN):Ayeranochi e curpanan sin bida a ser entrega na famia.

For di trempan dialuna mainta DIARIO tabata tin contacto cu fiscal mayor Hans Moss kende a splica cu e ta pendiente pa e resultado di e autopsia pa asina yama un conferencia di prensa hunto cu mando policial.

Esey a sosode tambe dialuna atardi na Sta Cruz den cantine di Centro di husticia.

Aki alto comisario Peter de Witte y tambe Fiscal Mayor Hans Moss mes a bin splica prensa kico a pasa. Tur cos ta mustra cu e sospechoso Eugene Giancarlo Lampe a admiti cu el a mata su mama, tata y ruman homber.

Tambe cu el a haci esaki separadamente unda den e prome camber di e cas tabata tin tres curpa benta abao y tur tabata mustra di no tabata duna seal di bida pero si marcanan fuerte di golpi.

A haya curpa cu carbon riba dje y kima mientras cu tabata tin plas di sanger den henter e camber segun alto comisario Peter de Witte.

E golpinan fuerte tabata bisto riba cabez di cada victima.

Algun hende cu a drenta e cas a logra paga e candela cu tabata tin e momento ey segun informacion cu autoridadnan a duna.

Te mesun hendenan aki a bati alarma tambe y bisa cu tin hende kima den cas sin pensa cu ta trata di un crimen horendo.

Eugene Giancarlo Lampe cu ta e yiu mas chikito di e famia mes a yega meld su mes na warda di polis na Sta Cruz.

Fiscal Lugo a duna orden mesora pa detene Eugene Giancarlo Lampe mientras cu a haci un investigacion den henter e cas na Macuarima 27-C pa logra haya tur e pruebanan necesario den e caso aki.

Fiscal mayor Hans Moss a splica cu diasabra caba a cuminsa cu e interogacion di e sospechoso Eugene Lampe y tur e interogacion ta bay a base di un grabacion cu camara y audio. Segun fiscal mayor Hans Moss cada asesinato a tuma lugar riba mesun dia, pero cada uno den oranan separa. E asesinato a tuma lugar entre 8or di mainta y 2or di merdia. Pa 2or di merdia henter e famia tabata asesina caba.

Lo bay tin reconstruccion y ya caba por confirma cu aki e agresor a usa un arma unda a golpea su victimanan pa asesina nan.

E motibo di e incendio segun ministerio publico tabata pasobra cu e kier a deshaci di e pruebanan di e asesinato cruel cu el a caba di comete.

Fiscal mayor Hans Moss a splica cu ultimo aanan mester paga tino cu declaracion di sospechosonan cu ta core admiti nan culpabilidad pasobra mester investiga y busca sosten pa e declaracionnan a base di pruebanan busca den e investigacion.

Awe e sospechoso ta ser presenta dilanti di huez comisario pa atende cu su detencion.

Informacion cu DIARIO tin ta bisa cu huez comisario mes lo bay warda di Sta Cruz pa papia cune.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: vms on April 08, 2008, 11:14:42 AM
(http://i30.tinypic.com/25yy82q.jpg)

Not Rufo, IMO, but I think I am the only one who thinks it isn't...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 11:19:51 AM
STEVE CROES AND GEOFFREY VAN CROMVOIRT CONNECTION

It appears that Steve Croes was fired for leaving his night shift as a watchman on the Tattoo.

My theory implies that it was Geoffrey van Cromvoirt and Steve Croes who assisted Paulus in moving Natalee's body which had been hidden by Joran, Deepak and Satish in the bushes.

Geoffrey van Cromvoirt was not detained as a formal susect until April, 2006.  However he was assigned the same attorney as Steve Croes.  Karin Janssen had implied that this was conflict of interest when one attorney was represented both Security Guards.

Janet

This makes the most sense outta everything I have heard or speculated upon. I just wonder if Steve was involved in body disposal he would come forward and subject himself to further scrutiny and not remain under the radar?

as a family member of Steve's has told me - "Steve's not too bright"


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 08, 2008, 11:20:14 AM
Janet...Something *strange* to me, in this quote from what you posted...


Steve Croes
NANCY GRACE
June 29, 2005

S. CROES: Well, I just start talking everything the truth, like where I was that day, the day I had, like, a night shift on the boat, like as a watchman. So I was sleeping on the boat. And, yes, that I wasn`t even there.

GRACE: Is it true that you have been fired from your job over this whole thing?

S. CROES: Yes. Yesterday during the afternoon I had, like, this meeting with my ex-boss and his lawyer, and they told me that I was fired.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/29/ng.01.html

Why on Gods' green earth...If Steve Croes was being fired from his job on the boat...for simply being a bad employee...why oh why...would his Boss need his LAWYER with him to do it...



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 11:20:50 AM
(http://i30.tinypic.com/25yy82q.jpg)

Not Rufo, IMO, but I think I am the only one who thinks it isn't...

thanks vms, I assure you that is Rufo. I'm positive.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 08, 2008, 11:40:47 AM
Janet...Something *strange* to me, in this quote from what you posted...


Steve Croes
NANCY GRACE
June 29, 2005

S. CROES: Well, I just start talking everything the truth, like where I was that day, the day I had, like, a night shift on the boat, like as a watchman. So I was sleeping on the boat. And, yes, that I wasn`t even there.

GRACE: Is it true that you have been fired from your job over this whole thing?

S. CROES: Yes. Yesterday during the afternoon I had, like, this meeting with my ex-boss and his lawyer, and they told me that I was fired.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/29/ng.01.html

Why on Gods' green earth...If Steve Croes was being fired from his job on the boat...for simply being a bad employee...why oh why...would his Boss need his LAWYER with him to do it...



Destiny ... GREAT CATCH!!

 ::MonkeyDance::

I do not know but I speculate ... when the employer considered Steve Croes interjecting himself with a false alibi in regards to the missing American and ... the admission that he left his night shift watch ... IT WAS JUST TOO TOO MUCH OF A COINCIDENCE.
 
IMO

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: MumInOhio on April 08, 2008, 11:41:48 AM
Tamikosmom...Did you look here?

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/index.htm



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 08, 2008, 11:52:39 AM
Rob
I am asking this to determine that Steve Croes was not one of those "guys" that chatted up the MB girls in the casino.  I think I can make that assumption based on the fact that Steve would have been working during that time on the Tattoo.  Steve told Deepak he saw them at the HI dropping off the girl. I think Steve wanted to know what Deepak knew and it backfired on him.  I am basing that on some things posted for me in the Shango thread. I have seen photos of Steve at Moombas before when he wasn't working.  I wish I had checked to see what time and day of the week it was.  I can't remember now how I came by those photos...I think it was someone's vacation photos and I remember him being shown walking off into the night with a girl and someone else.

Anyway, the reason was to determine if he was with Joran at the casinos during the time the MB teens were there at night on Friday and Saturday.  If the Tattoo has daytime cruises also...who DJ's those?  Surely he didn't work both times?  That would be long hours even for a young guy.  IMO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 08, 2008, 11:53:56 AM
Tamikosmom...Did you look here?

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/index.htm



Mum ... thank you.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 08, 2008, 11:56:47 AM
Janet
You know everyone on Aruba has an attorney...it must be the second best job there.


Did you get your files organized without difficulty? I hope so...we depend on your librarian skills daily in here.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 08, 2008, 12:00:40 PM
Janet
You know everyone on Aruba has an attorney...it must be the second best job there.


Did you get your files organized without difficulty? I hope so...we depend on your librarian skills daily in here.

LOL....Lala's...what is the *first* best job on Aruba?

I second you on the skills of Janet ;-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: MumInOhio on April 08, 2008, 12:00:41 PM

Tamikosmom and DestinyIIRC Kiwi had a great explanation for thissomething about liability! For Steve leaving the boat...not sure???

This just posted in the Shango thread by vmsThanks!

S. CROES: Well, I just start talking everything the truth, like where I was that day, the day I had, like, a night shift on the boat, like as a watchman. So I was sleeping on the boat. And, yes, that I wasn`t even there.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/29/ng.01.html


You are very welcome Tamikosmom!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: vms on April 08, 2008, 12:04:30 PM
(http://i30.tinypic.com/25yy82q.jpg)

Not Rufo, IMO, but I think I am the only one who thinks it isn't...

thanks vms, I assure you that is Rufo. I'm positive.

I remember this interview taking place as SC was on his way to take this guy to the airport to return to Curacao.  ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: MumInOhio on April 08, 2008, 12:05:08 PM
Sorry...my last post was about Wiggins needing a lawyer...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 08, 2008, 12:19:00 PM
Janet
You know everyone on Aruba has an attorney...it must be the second best job there.


Did you get your files organized without difficulty? I hope so...we depend on your librarian skills daily in here.

Lala'sMom ... my DIL did not finish doing her thing with my Natalee files last night ... it is such a huge undertaking ... such a huge mess.  I promised this amazing young lady last summer when ... for a second time ... she organized my Natalee files which were pertaining to a specific topic into its own folder ... that I would continue the status quo.  Well ... I broke that promise big time.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

The SM search engine is my lifeline for now ... as long as I remember the key words in the quotes.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 08, 2008, 12:23:05 PM
Janet
You know everyone on Aruba has an attorney...it must be the second best job there.


Did you get your files organized without difficulty? I hope so...we depend on your librarian skills daily in here.

LOL....Lala's...what is the *first* best job on Aruba?

I second you on the skills of Janet ;-)

Being a criminal. Easy money...lots of fun!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: AZSunny on April 08, 2008, 12:24:00 PM
Rob
I am asking this to determine that Steve Croes was not one of those "guys" that chatted up the MB girls in the casino.  I think I can make that assumption based on the fact that Steve would have been working during that time on the Tattoo.  Steve told Deepak he saw them at the HI dropping off the girl. I think Steve wanted to know what Deepak knew and it backfired on him.  I am basing that on some things posted for me in the Shango thread. I have seen photos of Steve at Moombas before when he wasn't working.  I wish I had checked to see what time and day of the week it was.  I can't remember now how I came by those photos...I think it was someone's vacation photos and I remember him being shown walking off into the night with a girl and someone else.

Anyway, the reason was to determine if he was with Joran at the casinos during the time the MB teens were there at night on Friday and Saturday.  If the Tattoo has daytime cruises also...who DJ's those?  Surely he didn't work both times?  That would be long hours even for a young guy.  IMO

LaLa's that was just my speculation that they also had daytime cruises, they may just have the sunset cruise. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 08, 2008, 12:29:18 PM
Rob
I am asking this to determine that Steve Croes was not one of those "guys" that chatted up the MB girls in the casino.  I think I can make that assumption based on the fact that Steve would have been working during that time on the Tattoo.  Steve told Deepak he saw them at the HI dropping off the girl. I think Steve wanted to know what Deepak knew and it backfired on him.  I am basing that on some things posted for me in the Shango thread. I have seen photos of Steve at Moombas before when he wasn't working.  I wish I had checked to see what time and day of the week it was.  I can't remember now how I came by those photos...I think it was someone's vacation photos and I remember him being shown walking off into the night with a girl and someone else.

Anyway, the reason was to determine if he was with Joran at the casinos during the time the MB teens were there at night on Friday and Saturday.  If the Tattoo has daytime cruises also...who DJ's those?  Surely he didn't work both times?  That would be long hours even for a young guy.  IMO

LaLa's that was just my speculation that they also had daytime cruises, they may just have the sunset cruise. 

No AZSunny, doesn't mean you aren't right..just never heard of it.  Why waste the boat when you can take it out during the daytime hours also?  I know you can visit that pirate ship they have down there during the day...so why not the Tattoo?  Maybe it's more subdude during the day.  Of course if all 300 people pay $23.00 to take the cruise at night you would make a nice little sum then too.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 12:35:53 PM
Thinking about the Tattoo, Wiggins and Steve Croes.  Originally on the Aru-bay site there were a couple of videos that were shot on the Tattoo.  They were very strange.  I'm going to go to my other computer and see if I can upload to photobucket.  To me the videos looked they the videographer was targeting certain women.

The video was shot prior to May 2005.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 12:47:53 PM
Thinking about the Tattoo, Wiggins and Steve Croes.  Originally on the Aru-bay site there were a couple of videos that were shot on the Tattoo.  They were very strange.  I'm going to go to my other computer and see if I can upload to photobucket.  To me the videos looked they the videographer was targeting certain women.

The video was shot prior to May 2005.


Uploading the 2 Tattoo videos from the Aru-bay site right now.  Will post as soon as they are ready.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 08, 2008, 12:50:55 PM
Sorry...my last post was about Wiggins needing a lawyer...

Mum ... I know. 

Maybe Wiggins felt that he needed to be on a firm foundation legally prior to firing Steve Croes in regards to his suspicions that there was a connection between Steve leaving his night shift watch of Tattoo and ... the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.  The Tattoo was tied up very close to the location of the Fishermans' Huts.

You are correct ... there must have been a reason that Wiggins felt the necessity to have an attorney present when he fired Steve Croes.

Janet



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 08, 2008, 12:51:02 PM
Thinking about the Tattoo, Wiggins and Steve Croes.  Originally on the Aru-bay site there were a couple of videos that were shot on the Tattoo.  They were very strange.  I'm going to go to my other computer and see if I can upload to photobucket.  To me the videos looked they the videographer was targeting certain women.

The video was shot prior to May 2005.


Uploading the 2 Tattoo videos from the Aru-bay site right now.  Will post as soon as they are ready.

Thanks Klaas


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 08, 2008, 12:52:41 PM
Thinking about the Tattoo, Wiggins and Steve Croes.  Originally on the Aru-bay site there were a couple of videos that were shot on the Tattoo.  They were very strange.  I'm going to go to my other computer and see if I can upload to photobucket.  To me the videos looked they the videographer was targeting certain women.

The video was shot prior to May 2005.


And how did they get on the Tattoo in the daytime to shoot those videos if they were only open during the night hours?  Videoing during the day would be easily noticed by anyone that was around, right?  Did Rob not say you had to be ferried out to the Tattoo?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 12:59:54 PM
A little background on the Aru-bay website.  According to the website it was started so that locals could share there videos about Aruba.

These two Tattoo videos were uploaded to the Aru-bay site on April 3, 2005.  I find them both very strange:

smallmovie5

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/th_smallmovie5.jpg) (http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/?action=view&current=smallmovie5.flv)

smallmovie6

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/th_smallmovie6.jpg) (http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/?action=view&current=smallmovie6.flv)



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 08, 2008, 01:02:42 PM
Sorry...my last post was about Wiggins needing a lawyer...

Mum ... I know. 

Maybe Wiggins felt that he needed to be on a firm foundation legally prior to firing Steve Croes in regards to his suspicions that there was a connection between Steve leaving his night shift watch of Tattoo and ... the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.  The Tattoo was tied up very close to the location of the Fishermans' Huts.

You are correct ... there must have been a reason that Wiggins felt the necessity to have an attorney present when he fired Steve Croes.

Janet



Quote from Janet...earlier post:

teve Croes
NANCY GRACE
June 29, 2005

S. CROES: Well, I just start talking everything the truth, like where I was that day, the day I had, like, a night shift on the boat, like as a watchman. So I was sleeping on the boat. And, yes, that I wasn`t even there.

GRACE: Is it true that you have been fired from your job over this whole thing?

S. CROES: Yes. Yesterday during the afternoon I had, like, this meeting with my ex-boss and his lawyer, and they told me that I was fired.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/29/ng.01.html

It was *THEY* who fired him....there was a pretty big reason for a LAWYER to be part of the firing process....not normal in any way...and I think Wiggins knows what it is....can't wait to see the Arubay-vid  photos Klaas is uploading...



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 01:02:54 PM
Thinking about the Tattoo, Wiggins and Steve Croes.  Originally on the Aru-bay site there were a couple of videos that were shot on the Tattoo.  They were very strange.  I'm going to go to my other computer and see if I can upload to photobucket.  To me the videos looked they the videographer was targeting certain women.

The video was shot prior to May 2005.


And how did they get on the Tattoo in the daytime to shoot those videos if they were only open during the night hours?  Videoing during the day would be easily noticed by anyone that was around, right?  Did Rob not say you had to be ferried out to the Tattoo?
Night time videos Lala's  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Kermit on April 08, 2008, 01:05:57 PM
(http://www.aru-bay.com/images/smallmovie6pic.jpg)

Video 16 (5 min 36 sec) opens with a man taking a shot along with other girls chugging down drinks aboard Tattoo party boat. Young girl singing, another girl pole dancing, close ups on young girls (looks like American tourist girls) dancing provocatively.

(http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/7927/video162lm.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 08, 2008, 01:07:09 PM
Sorry...my last post was about Wiggins needing a lawyer...

Mum ... I know. 

Maybe Wiggins felt that he needed to be on a firm foundation legally prior to firing Steve Croes in regards to his suspicions that there was a connection between Steve leaving his night shift watch of Tattoo and ... the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.  The Tattoo was tied up very close to the location of the Fishermans' Huts.

You are correct ... there must have been a reason that Wiggins felt the necessity to have an attorney present when he fired Steve Croes.

Janet



Mum ... at the time of the firing Steve Croes was a suspect in the Natalee Holloway case.  Maybe this suspect status is the reason for the firing ... insurance/bonding purposes.  Maybe this is why Wiggin's attorney was present ... to explain the legalities to Steve Croes.

Janet

+++++++++++++++++++++

Aruba Authorities Detail Murder Suspicions
Friday, June 24, 2005


Joran van der Sloot (search) and his friends Deepak and Satish Kalpoe are being held under suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder.

A fourth man, party boat DJ Steve Croes, is being held under the same conditions.

The fifth man, Paul van der Sloot (search) the father of 17-year-old Joran was being held on suspicion of complicity to pre-meditated murder, complicity to kidnapping and murder and kidnapping. Under the Aruban system, complicity is a lesser charge.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160654,00.html



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Kermit on April 08, 2008, 01:08:00 PM
(http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/4999/image478go9.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 01:08:44 PM
My question is, and I don't think it's so far out there, was the Tattoo the place where girls were targeted? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 01:09:13 PM
I've never heard of the Tattoo going out during the day. It's a nite time things as far as I know. 

guess it's always possible.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 01:09:38 PM
Kermit - both videos posted above


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 08, 2008, 01:10:34 PM
Thinking about the Tattoo, Wiggins and Steve Croes.  Originally on the Aru-bay site there were a couple of videos that were shot on the Tattoo.  They were very strange.  I'm going to go to my other computer and see if I can upload to photobucket.  To me the videos looked they the videographer was targeting certain women.

The video was shot prior to May 2005.


And how did they get on the Tattoo in the daytime to shoot those videos if they were only open during the night hours?  Videoing during the day would be easily noticed by anyone that was around, right?  Did Rob not say you had to be ferried out to the Tattoo?
Night time videos Lala's  ::MonkeyWink::


DOH!!!  Of course.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 08, 2008, 01:13:33 PM
(http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/4999/image478go9.jpg)


And who would have the ultimate seat in which to watch and target said girls?  Yep. That would be Steve Croes.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 08, 2008, 01:20:13 PM
My question is, and I don't think it's so far out there, was the Tattoo the place where girls were targeted? 

I think so Klaas...these vids have a creep factor of 10+...they remind me of something, that would have been produced, by the porn/snuff dude in the movie 8MM...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 01:20:49 PM
A little background on the Aru-bay website.  According to the website it was started so that locals could share there videos about Aruba.

These two Tattoo videos were uploaded to the Aru-bay site on April 3, 2005.  I find them both very strange:

smallmovie5

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/th_smallmovie5.jpg) (http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/?action=view&current=smallmovie5.flv)

smallmovie6

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/th_smallmovie6.jpg) (http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/?action=view&current=smallmovie6.flv)



Everyone should watch these two videos


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 01:21:47 PM
My question is, and I don't think it's so far out there, was the Tattoo the place where girls were targeted? 

I think so Klaas...these vids have a creep factor of 10+...they remind me of something, that would have been produced, by the porn/snuff dude in the movie 8MM...

Exactly.  As a matter of fact they creeped me out so much I had Red send them to Natalee's family back in 2005.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Blonde on April 08, 2008, 01:21:52 PM
Morning monkeys!  I have a  few quick questions. Maybe someone will know the answers, for some reason I can't ever recall discussing this before, but then again I miss a lot.

What are the hours of operation of the party boat the Tattoo that Steve Croes worked on?

What EXACTLY was Steve Croes job on that boat?   

Thanks!

Not sure about the hours Lala's.  Steve was a DJ on the Tattoo.  It's possible that he sometimes drove it as well.  I believe he was supposed to be staying on the Tattoo that night as security and was fired because he wasn't doing his job. 

We don`t have that answer yet. We are looking into that to see what the boat`s movements were. We do know from the owner, Marcus Williams (sic), that Steve Croes did have a key to the boat. But the owner also tells us that the boat has a special electronic security system on it and he doesn`t believe that Steve Croes would have been able to take the boat without his permission. And he has described Steve Croes as a model employee, Nancy. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/17/ng.01.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 08, 2008, 01:22:45 PM

Mum ... at the time of the firing Steve Croes was a suspect in the Natalee Holloway case.  Maybe this suspect status is the reason for the firing ... insurance/bonding purposes.  Maybe this is why Wiggin's attorney was present ... to explain the legalities to Steve Croes.

Janet

+++++++++++++++++++++

Aruba Authorities Detail Murder Suspicions
Friday, June 24, 2005


Joran van der Sloot (search) and his friends Deepak and Satish Kalpoe are being held under suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder.

A fourth man, party boat DJ Steve Croes, is being held under the same conditions.

The fifth man, Paul van der Sloot (search) the father of 17-year-old Joran was being held on suspicion of complicity to pre-meditated murder, complicity to kidnapping and murder and kidnapping. Under the Aruban system, complicity is a lesser charge.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160654,00.html



As of December 1, 2005 ... Steve Croes was still a suspect.  I have not heard that he was ever released from suspect status.

Janet

+++++++++++++++

Steve Croes
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 1, 2005


WOOD:  Well, first of all, you know, the tape that you're playing, the excerpts of this tape from Jamie SkeetersDeepak Kalpoe on that tape, he admits to the fact that him and Steven Croes are friends, that they're not just acquaintances.  He hashe tells Jamie that he has Steven Croes's telephone number programmed into his cell phone..

So let me tell you, yes, Steven Croes is still a suspect.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295536/



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 08, 2008, 01:25:55 PM
My question is, and I don't think it's so far out there, was the Tattoo the place where girls were targeted? 

I think so Klaas...these vids have a creep factor of 10+...they remind me of something, that would have been produced, by the porn/snuff dude in the movie 8MM...

Exactly.  As a matter of fact they creeped me out so much I had Red send them to Natalee's family back in 2005.

Klaas...I got a *really bad feeling* watching them...almost...like somewhere in there...I was...looking at a dead person...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 01:31:03 PM
Quote
As of December 1, 2005 ... Steve Croes was still a suspect.  I have not heard that he was ever released from suspect status.

Janet

thanks for pointing that out...I have never heard he was released either. And van Cromvoirt is approaching the two year deadline also.

I have always wondered how Paulus was released early against the law. Well, I don't really wonder... just think they all jacked what's left of their system around.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 01:31:35 PM
My question is, and I don't think it's so far out there, was the Tattoo the place where girls were targeted? 

I think so Klaas...these vids have a creep factor of 10+...they remind me of something, that would have been produced, by the porn/snuff dude in the movie 8MM...

Exactly.  As a matter of fact they creeped me out so much I had Red send them to Natalee's family back in 2005.

Klaas...I got a *really bad feeling* watching them...almost...like somewhere in there...I was...looking at a dead person...

Yes, I know what you mean.  I was hoping an investigator could try and identify some of the women and interview them.  My thought was previous victims of drug/rape.  I have no idea if anyone really investigated them though.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 01:34:33 PM
Quote
As of December 1, 2005 ... Steve Croes was still a suspect.  I have not heard that he was ever released from suspect status.

Janet

thanks for pointing that out...I have never heard he was released either. And van Cromvoirt is approaching the two year deadline also.

I have always wondered how Paulus was released early against the law. Well, I don't really wonder... just think they all jacked what's left of their system around.

quoting myself... LOL

this makes me wonder - with all the staggered arrest dates, it seems possible to me that Mos is keeping the case open, yet not officially where the term suspect status comes in, but in a way to get everyone who was arrested to the two year deadline, and then it's all officially over. They are PRIME SUSPECTS, but not official.

I wonder if the bombshell will come shortly after van Cromvoirt gets his letter?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 08, 2008, 01:38:24 PM
My question is, and I don't think it's so far out there, was the Tattoo the place where girls were targeted? 

I think so Klaas...these vids have a creep factor of 10+...they remind me of something, that would have been produced, by the porn/snuff dude in the movie 8MM...

Exactly.  As a matter of fact they creeped me out so much I had Red send them to Natalee's family back in 2005.

Klaas...I got a *really bad feeling* watching them...almost...like somewhere in there...I was...looking at a dead person...

Yes, I know what you mean.  I was hoping an investigator could try and identify some of the women and interview them.  My thought was previous victims of drug/rape.  I have no idea if anyone really investigated them though.

KLAAS...LALAS'


I think these two Aru-Bay vids...should go on the Shango thread too...some very good investigative minds there too...it just seems to *fit*...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Blonde on April 08, 2008, 01:43:15 PM
"I heard this guy talking on the phone at the Internet cafe," Steve Croes said. "So my story was like almost exactly as his."

Croes was referring to Deepak Kalpoe, 21, who originally said he and his brother Satish, 18, and their friend Joran Van Der Sloot, 17, drove Natalee Holloway back to the Holiday Inn the night of May 30.

Croes told police he saw the young men drop Holloway off at the hotel.

"So that's why they thought that maybe I was in it," Croes told CNN Wednesday. "But everything that I knew, I just hear it from his voice, when he was talking on the phone."

http://www.handelonthelaw.com/news_details.aspx?News=1072&Date=7/1/2005


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 08, 2008, 01:48:51 PM
My question is, and I don't think it's so far out there, was the Tattoo the place where girls were targeted? 

I think so Klaas...these vids have a creep factor of 10+...they remind me of something, that would have been produced, by the porn/snuff dude in the movie 8MM...

Exactly.  As a matter of fact they creeped me out so much I had Red send them to Natalee's family back in 2005.

Klaas...I got a *really bad feeling* watching them...almost...like somewhere in there...I was...looking at a dead person...

I cannot see what you are seeing.  If the person were female ... it could be Tamikosmom attempting to get the last drop of her precious morning coffee from the mug.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 08, 2008, 01:53:07 PM
My question is, and I don't think it's so far out there, was the Tattoo the place where girls were targeted? 

I think so Klaas...these vids have a creep factor of 10+...they remind me of something, that would have been produced, by the porn/snuff dude in the movie 8MM...

Exactly.  As a matter of fact they creeped me out so much I had Red send them to Natalee's family back in 2005.

Klaas...I got a *really bad feeling* watching them...almost...like somewhere in there...I was...looking at a dead person...

I cannot see what you are seeing.  If the person were female ... it could be Tamikosmom attempting to get the last drop of her precious morning coffee from the mug.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet



ROFL...I'm the same way about my go-juice...I order my coffee from San Fran...make it one pressed cup at a time...savor it...

What I meant by *bad feeling* in watching the vids...is, it actually made my skin *crawl*...that only happens when there is death involved...it's hard to explain...I'm still trying to shake off that feeling...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Blonde on April 08, 2008, 01:53:29 PM
Tattoo the place where girls were targeted? 

Mostly BLONDE'S GIRLS 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 08, 2008, 01:53:45 PM
My mistake ... I did not realize that the images that Klaas posted were video clips.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 01:59:08 PM
Tattoo the place where girls were targeted? 

Mostly BLONDE'S GIRLS 

You saying that from experience, LOL  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 01:59:51 PM
My mistake ... I did not realize that the images that Klaas posted were video clips.

Janet

The music chosen for those videos really adds to the creep factor, don't you think?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 08, 2008, 02:02:24 PM
My mistake ... I did not realize that the images that Klaas posted were video clips.

Janet

The music chosen for those videos really adds to the creep factor, don't you think?

YEP!  8MM all the way...I can tell the a very experienced person made them...I also *feel* that these are excerpts from another vid not posted...JMOO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 08, 2008, 02:03:48 PM
My mistake ... I did not realize that the images that Klaas posted were video clips.

Janet

The music chosen for those videos really adds to the creep factor, don't you think?

I will let you know in a minute.  I will tur on my speaker.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 02:10:03 PM
Waiting for Janet to feel creepy too  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Kermit on April 08, 2008, 02:12:40 PM
My question is, and I don't think it's so far out there, was the Tattoo the place where girls were targeted? 

NO. It was ONE place.

Joran targetted Natalee & the other MB girls at the HI.
Those kids hang out at the hotels and pick up tourists.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 08, 2008, 02:14:47 PM
My mistake ... I did not realize that the images that Klaas posted were video clips.

Janet

The music chosen for those videos really adds to the creep factor, don't you think?

I will let you know in a minute.  I will turn on my speaker.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet


The video of these young people dancing provocatively and drinking excessively portrays a world that is completely foreign to me and ... it saddens me.

Janet

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 02:14:53 PM
My question is, and I don't think it's so far out there, was the Tattoo the place where girls were targeted? 

NO. It was ONE place.

Joran targetted Natalee & the other MB girls at the HI.
Those kids hang out at the hotels and pick up tourists.




Kermit - I agree, Joran's group of pimps targeted at the HI.  I'm just wondering if some targeting was being done by others on the Tattoo and maybe Steve Croes is involved in that aspect. 



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 08, 2008, 02:16:11 PM
My question is, and I don't think it's so far out there, was the Tattoo the place where girls were targeted? 

NO. It was ONE place.

Joran targetted Natalee & the other MB girls at the HI.
Those kids hang out at the hotels and pick up tourists.




I agree with ya Kermit...but onw thing is I don't think it was *Joran* who targeted Natalee...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 08, 2008, 02:18:44 PM
My mistake ... I did not realize that the images that Klaas posted were video clips.

Janet

The music chosen for those videos really adds to the creep factor, don't you think?

I will let you know in a minute.  I will turn on my speaker.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet


The video of these young people dancing provocatively and drinking excessively portrays a world that is completely foreign to me and ... it saddens me.

Janet

Janet

I know what you mean Janet...but that is what the under belly of Aruba, is all about...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 02:31:58 PM
My question is, and I don't think it's so far out there, was the Tattoo the place where girls were targeted? 

NO. It was ONE place.

Joran targetted Natalee & the other MB girls at the HI.
Those kids hang out at the hotels and pick up tourists.




Kermit - I agree, Joran's group of pimps targeted at the HI.  I'm just wondering if some targeting was being done by others on the Tattoo and maybe Steve Croes is involved in that aspect. 



I now believe, unfortunately, that women are targeted just about anywhere and everywhere on Aruba. It's a mind set, and a bad one at that. It's going to lead to many many more problems in the years to come.

Each predator probably has their own methods, targets, and locale. Just like predators everywhere.

You got a minister alleged to have raped and he says that the sex was for a job and not rape (well, this is the latest version anyway)... now, let me ask you? does that make it right? of course not. I almost wish the old days of nepotism would re-appear so no one has to sell their body or soul to get ahead on that God Forsaken death trap.





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 02:40:44 PM
Posted at RU:

Daury R. vast in Amerika

OM ontkent connectie met zaak Natalee Holloway Verdacht van drugssmokkel

Daury R. is aangehouden in de Verenigde Staten. Het Openbaar Ministerie op Aruba ontkent een connectie met de zaak van Natalee Holloway. De voormalige getuige in de zaak Natalee Holloway zit sinds een maand vast in de Verenigde Staten, op verdenking van drugssmokkel. Dat bevestigt het Openbaar Ministerie (OM) op Aruba tegenover Metro. Het OM meldt dat er geen verband bestaat tussen de aanhouding van de 20-jarige Arubaan Daury R. en de zaak van het verdwenen meisje. Joran van der Sloot noemde de naam Daury in de inmiddels legendarisch geworden uitzending van Peter R. de Vries. Daarop werd Daury R. aan de tand gevoeld door het OM op Aruba, dat hem vervolgens weer liet gaan. R. stelde op het tijdstip van de verdwijning niet op Aruba te zijn geweest en niet in bezit te zijn geweest van een bootje, waarmee hij het lichaam naar zee zou hebben gebracht en gedumpt volgens Joran. Voorlichter Ann Angela van het OM op Aruba benadrukt dat de aanhouding van R., zo vlak na het verhoor in de zaak Holloway, niets te maken heeft met de zaak van het verdwenen meisje: Het is een toevallige samenloop van omstandigheden. De voorlichter laat weten dat justitie op het eiland geen belangstelling heeft om verder met de Amerikaanse autoriteiten in contact te komen over Daury R. Er heeft ons ook geen nieuwe informatie over de zaak bereikt vanuit de VS.

JOOST VAN DER WEGEN
redactie@metronieuws.nl

Rough translation:


Daury R. it has been apprehended in the United States. The Public Prosecution Service on Aruba denies a connection with the matter of Natalee Holloway. The former witness in the case Natalee Holloway has been stuck since a month in the United States, on suspicion of drug smuggling. That confirms the Public Prosecution Service (Public Prosecution Service) on Aruba compared with underground railway. Public Prosecution Service communicates that there no link exists between the adjournment of the 20 person whose birthday it is Arubaan Daury R. and the matter of the disappeared little girl. Joran of of the ditch named the name `Daury in meanwhile legendary become the retransmission of Peter R. freeze. Then Daury R. became. felt to the cog by Public Prosecution Service on Aruba, to which him vervolgens pay attention go. R. did not put at the time of disappearance on Aruba have been to be and in possession have been of a small boat, with which he will have brought the body to sea and dumped according to Joran. Voorlichter Ann Angela of Public Prosecution Service on Aruba emphasises that the adjournment of R., this way shortly after the verhoor in the matter Holloway, nothing to do has with the matter of the disappeared little girl: It is an occasional coincidence of circumstances. The voorlichter lets know that justice on the island has to no interest further with the American authorities in contact come concerning Daury R. Us have reached new information also no on the matter from the US.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 08, 2008, 03:06:38 PM
Those translations are as clear as mud. LOL


What would be the going rate to procure females for willing to pay male clients?  Aruba is a hotbed of sources for finding women..so just come in pick out one OR give us your preferences and we will locate one for you.  How much would that cost?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: AZSunny on April 08, 2008, 03:13:29 PM
[
[/quote]

The video of these young people dancing provocatively and drinking excessively portrays a world that is completely foreign to me and ... it saddens me.

Janet

Janet
[/quote]

I know what you mean Janet...but that is what the under belly of Aruba, is all about...
[/quote]

Unfortunately, I don't think that kind of provactive dancing and drinking is confined to just Aruba.  You can see it here as well.  Any trendy nightclub that appeals to young people, check it out any Friday or Saturday night.  Pretty sad, but true.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 03:27:41 PM
ArubaMilie
Senior


Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 116
Location: in Atlanta from Aruba
 Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:17 pm    Post subject: AA and Continental diverted to Curacao due to strike..   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
AA refused to land in Aruba and Continental also followed and diverted to Curacao. Not enough firefighters on staff due to strike. AA forgets though that the firefighters would come back in a heart beat if there was an emergency! So sad. Hopefully the government will open their eyes now and give the people what they deserve. They all work hard while the government is corrupt and spends like crazy.
 
 http://www.aruba-bb.com/viewtopic.php?t=56923


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 08, 2008, 03:30:42 PM
My mistake ... I did not realize that the images that Klaas posted were video clips.

Janet

The music chosen for those videos really adds to the creep factor, don't you think?

I will let you know in a minute.  I will turn on my speaker.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet


The video of these young people dancing provocatively and drinking excessively portrays a world that is completely foreign to me and ... it saddens me.

Janet

Janet

I know what you mean Janet...but that is what the under belly of Aruba, is all about...

Destiny ... I believe that this is what Beth's quest is all about in regards to her Safe Travel's foundation.  She is attempting to educate young people that certain behaviors ... certain choice ...  will put them at risk of becoming victims of the "Jorans" of the world.

However ... as with my eldest son in his late teens ... all the talking in the world can go one ear and out the other.  This guy gradually learned through experience/maturity over a number of years ... that maybe ... just maybe ... his Dad and I were not trying to control his life ... that maybe ... just maybe ... we were looking out for his well being ... maybe ... just maybe ... our foundation was love.

Destiny ... today hubby and I are so thankful that eldest son was was afforded the learning process.  As with Beth and Dave ... many parents are not as fortunate.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 08, 2008, 04:24:13 PM
Janet,

Your Son, is very fortunate to have You, and Your Hubby, care so much for him....Bless You All!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: oceanexploration on April 08, 2008, 05:10:31 PM
Greetings all.  I don't have time to read through 50 pages of thread.  In a nutshell, anything new or directed at myself or the search team?

Thanks!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 08, 2008, 05:31:43 PM
Greetings all.  I don't have time to read through 50 pages of thread.  In a nutshell, anything new or directed at myself or the search team?

Thanks!

Hello OE!...Welcome back!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Pita on April 08, 2008, 05:32:31 PM
Rob
I am asking this to determine that Steve Croes was not one of those "guys" that chatted up the MB girls in the casino.  I think I can make that assumption based on the fact that Steve would have been working during that time on the Tattoo.  Steve told Deepak he saw them at the HI dropping off the girl. I think Steve wanted to know what Deepak knew and it backfired on him.  I am basing that on some things posted for me in the Shango thread. I have seen photos of Steve at Moombas before when he wasn't working.  I wish I had checked to see what time and day of the week it was.  I can't remember now how I came by those photos...I think it was someone's vacation photos and I remember him being shown walking off into the night with a girl and someone else.

Anyway, the reason was to determine if he was with Joran at the casinos during the time the MB teens were there at night on Friday and Saturday.  If the Tattoo has daytime cruises also...who DJ's those?  Surely he didn't work both times?  That would be long hours even for a young guy.  IMO

This might be the picture you were referring to with Steve and Cheremy walking off.  It was uploaded August 17, 2005. 

(http://i30.tinypic.com/dx09vm.jpg)

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/1425766400063453400pNLiAz


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 08, 2008, 05:33:28 PM

Greetings all.  I don't have time to read through 50 pages of thread.  In a nutshell, anything new or directed at myself or the search team?

Thanks!

Hi Kyle

WhiskeyGirl was very busy a while back bringing John Silvetti's posts of over to the cage.

Janet

++++++++++++



http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.40

BFN has a thread "John Silvetti, the Persistence and the Search for Natalee".

John does address questions, and for those that do not read there, here are some snips -

Quote from: jdsurveyor1
I would like to give everyone at BFN an update on where we stand.  The Persistence completed surveying the initial and extended grids.  Basically, this means that the sonar survey was completed.  Over 275 targets of interest were picked up and analyzed by the sonar interpreters.  Only 25% of the targets were investigated by the ROV.  At that point, we had run out of money and weather.  Louis Schaefer committed a very generous amount of money towards the survey and the rest of us absorbed what we could.  However, that was all based on the initial survey grid.  Once the grid tripled, obviously so did our committments.  The weather had continually increased until we were constantly facing 20 ft. seas. The Persistence can handle 20 foot seas, however, it is very dangerous for the crew and impossible to collect data.  It was taking us 3 days to complete what took us only 1 day the month before.  It was time to call it off.  This was a very difficult thing to do as we had all prepared ourselves to either find Natalee or not.  None of us were prepared to leave not knowing one way or the other.  I believe once the reality set in that we were going to leave without knowing, that was the lowest point in morale of the entire trip.  It took a few days for everyone to shake it off and complete what we could.

Quote from: Jamie
Dear John. No, this isn't a goodbye note. lol I would personally like to thank you, Mr. Schaefer, Kyle and ALL of you, for everything you have done and are continuing to do, for Natalee. Thank you for letting us be a part of your search. You all have made us feel closer to Natalee and her family, through you on your search. I just pray that the funds you need to continue your search, will come through.

Thank you also for giving of your time and energy. You are all heroes to us. God Bless you all.

Quote from: jdsurveyor1
Thank you Jamie for your kind words.  You must realize that the support that everyone posted daily kept us upbeat and working.  You all were truly there with us.  We are currently looking for an ROV vessel we can work with to return to complete the target investigations later in the year.  I just returned last night from New England where I looked at a vessel that was being considered to do this with.

The surveyors from the Persistence were also working with the Maritime Police and Prosecutor's Office utilizing bottom scanning sonar in ponds and murky bodies of water.  This is ongoing, however, the strike on the island has brought this to a halt until the strike is settled.  Rumors claim this may happen on Monday.




More from John ~

Quote from: Debbie
John, what can we do to insure that the search is completed?

Also, when the cage was found that was shown on Dateline (pictures also hit the internet) what thoughts, emotions, etc... went through your mind?  Can you elaborate on that for us?  Thanks!

Quote from: jdsurveyor1
The important thing is to raise funds.  It will require corporate support as well as private donations.  Dave and Beth have been doing a great job getting the word out and while I was on the island, Dave put me in contact with the head of the Hotel Association who is working on raising a sizeable amount.  So many on the island are supporting our efforts as well as people from all over the world.

The media really blew the cage out of proportion.  Although the cage initially provided some moments of "what is in there", I warned all on board that none of this information was to leave the boat.  It was very suspect that a cage of this size was found where it was on the seafloor relative to the coast.  My feelings were this was highly unusual and probably had something to do with something, but not what we were after.  It was decided that the cage would be investigated further by divers, however, it was designated as only a target of interest.  The crew moved onto other targets.  Unfortunately, inexperience and frustration led to premature statements, including that we had found her.  I don't think anyone was more upset than I that this information came off the boat and caused the Holloway family more grief!

Quote from: LegallyLex
John, a lot of BFN posters have asked me how much money would be needed to complete the search.  Can you provide an estimate on what amount would be needed?


Quote from: jdsurveyor1
It is very difficult to say, since Louis has not selected a ROV vessel and we do not know how much of a humanitarian discount we can count on by the vessel and ROV owners, but my guess is that we will be looking at around 1 million dollars.

Quote from: jdsurveyor1
]Thank you Pearl.  Your posting were read many times on the Persistence and you became part of the crew!  Your words and the words of so many inspired us to keep enduring, no matter what mother nature threw at us.  We reflected on this on the way home.  The crew worked constantly in weather conditions that were double the usual shut down weather in the Gulf of Mexico.

The relationship between the people of Aruba and the crew of the Persistence was wonderful.  Initially, there was an air of guarded reservation, on both sides, however, once they understood why we were there, not to make headlines or money, but to help the Holloway family and intrinsically the island of Aruba, they opend their arms and their homes to us.  The crew found the people of Aruba to be the "salt of the earth" hard working and family oriented people.  Many had taken time off work to join the search parties and many held prayer vigils in their churches.  We received support from the Police, the Coast Guard, the Port Authority and vitually anyone we needed help from.  One example, we needed a shallow water vessel to investigate areas we were afraid to bring the Persistence into due to water depths and unknown wrecks......a 28 foot vessel, PREDATOR, was provided to us for 4 days at no charge.  The owner would not allow us to pay for the fuel or any of the expenses.  Their support made our work progress much faster.  I am very happy to say that it would take a long time for me to list the names of everyone on the island that supported our efforts.



Quote from: PearlInUSA
... I just read a article about water samples and sites recently done in Aruba.  One was at Hooiberg.  This made me wonder about any chance of something being done there as there was a reported cell phone call from Joran's phone made in very early morning hours.   Do you know if these individual places were actually searched with any scanning sonar?

Quote from: jdsurveyor1
I can not comment on the areas we have been working in as the OM is currently evaluating this information.  I can tell you that I did not try to tie information previously reported to every search area, only because one could spend a lifetime chasing every story and every piece of information.  Reports, previous clues, information from the Police, OM and others led us to the sites we looked at.  I can tell you I spoke to hundreds of people including authorities, x-authorities, locals, psychics (there is a story) and others.

A question about how secure the sites are -
Quote from: jdsurveyor1
Jamie,
I feel the sites are as safe as they can be.  All survey data that was collected, other than what was shared with the authorities, is in our possesion.  No data has yet to be released, especially target data......locations.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: oceanexploration on April 08, 2008, 05:39:07 PM
Thanks Janet!  Just thought I'd check in.  I'll get back on in a few days.
~K


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 08, 2008, 05:41:21 PM
Kyle,

Beth has, with Bram Moscovic...*BIG Lawyer* in NL...filed a suit against the whole Sloot family...big to-do about that....Jorin reportedly in Germany...and in mental hospital...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 08, 2008, 05:43:53 PM
Bye Kyle ... see ya in a couple of days.

 ::MonkeyCool:: 

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: sandy leiva on April 08, 2008, 06:14:12 PM
Those translations are as clear as mud. LOL


What would be the going rate to procure females for willing to pay male clients?  Aruba is a hotbed of sources for finding women..so just come in pick out one OR give us your preferences and we will locate one for you.  How much would that cost?

+just fyi new info from diario paper today page from social happenings.  Maybe LaLa Hans Mos could awnser that question for you -seems he has been officially accepted as the new member to the  mens  rotary club.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 06:23:20 PM
Bumping for Sandy - will you give this a try please?

By the way...forgot I wanted to post this..

I'm not totally sure what this is saying.
The polis investigation van was ???? and wrecked or the polis have taken the van into custody for further examination. Anyone want to get this one a shot?

I see it says the 'van of the polis was transported to the polis ward / station for more investigation'.
Does that look right to anyone else?

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/Whitevan4-5-20082.jpg)

Den oranan di merdia a drenta informe cu un mini van lo a bolter un poco mas pabao di A-Mart na Piedra Plat. Mester bisa cu ora cu polis a yega na e sitio nan a constata cu no tin ningun hende herida y nan no por a encontra e chauffeur di e auto y mucho menos e papelnan di e vehiculo pa cual motibo a pidi pa takelwagen di Polis transporta e van pa warda di Polis pa mas investigacion. Click read more pa mas imagen.

http://www.24ora.com

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/COLLECTIONOFVANS2.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: dennisintn on April 08, 2008, 06:25:02 PM
[

The video of these young people dancing provocatively and drinking excessively portrays a world that is completely foreign to me and ... it saddens me.

Janet

Janet
[/quote]

I know what you mean Janet...but that is what the under belly of Aruba, is all about...
[/quote]

Unfortunately, I don't think that kind of provactive dancing and drinking is confined to just Aruba.  You can see it here as well.  Any trendy nightclub that appeals to young people, check it out any Friday or Saturday night.  Pretty sad, but true.
[/quote]

what comes to my mind watching these videos is exactly the same kind of thing my dad used to say about the dancing and music that my fellow teenagers were so enthralled with 50 years ago. 
dennisintn


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 06:28:17 PM
Tonight on Dana Pretzer:

Join Dana this week as he welcomes:

    * R. Stephanie Good, attorney and NY Times Best Selling Author
discussing The Secret Lives of Women
    * Don Clark, retired FBI bureau chief and current Private Investigator
discussing the ruling on the Bahamian inquest into the death of Daniel
Smith
    * Aden McEvoy, father of Becca McEvoy

LISTEN LIVE TONIGHT AT 9PM EASTERN

www.scaredmonkeysradio.com


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Maggie on April 08, 2008, 06:36:09 PM

Those videos are truly creepy. I noticed in one that a young man had a "Hollister" t shirt on. Google says there are Hollister High Schools in Missouri and Oklahoma. I tried to search for pictures, but couldn't find anyone in a t shirt. Maybe one of the monkeys might know?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 06:45:07 PM

Those videos are truly creepy. I noticed in one that a young man had a "Hollister" t shirt on. Google says there are Hollister High Schools in Missouri and Oklahoma. I tried to search for pictures, but couldn't find anyone in a t shirt. Maybe one of the monkeys might know?

Hi Maggie, Hollister is a brand name clothing line.
http://www.hollisterco.com/hol/homepage.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: sandy leiva on April 08, 2008, 06:50:11 PM
Bumping for Sandy - will you give this a try please?

By the way...forgot I wanted to post this..

I'm not totally sure what this is saying.
The polis investigation van was ???? and wrecked or the polis have taken the van into custody for further examination. Anyone want to get this one a shot?

I see it says the 'van of the polis was transported to the polis ward / station for more investigation'.
Does that look right to anyone else?

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/Whitevan4-5-20082.jpg)

Den oranan di merdia a drenta informe cu un mini van lo a bolter un poco mas pabao di A-Mart na Piedra Plat. Mester bisa cu ora cu polis a yega na e sitio nan a constata cu no tin ningun hende herida y nan no por a encontra e chauffeur di e auto y mucho menos e papelnan di e vehiculo pa cual motibo a pidi pa takelwagen di Polis transporta e van pa warda di Polis pa mas investigacion. Click read more pa mas imagen.  


mini van found on its side on the sreet just below the A-mart on Piedra Plat.  it says that by the time ploce arrived to the place there was noone around, no injured bodys around and infact no driver around nor was the paperwork for the van in the car. Polis transpported the van to headquarters for further investigation.

http://www.24ora.com

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/COLLECTIONOFVANS2.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 06:56:24 PM
Thank you Sandy I appreciate it!!

I was thinking it's probably not the polis van because it has a civilian license plate... although it is missing the tag that attaches to it.

Thank you again.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: sandy leiva on April 08, 2008, 07:24:35 PM
Thank you Sandy I appreciate it!!

I was thinking it's probably not the polis van because it has a civilian license plate... although it is missing the tag that attaches to it.

Thank you again.

your welcome, How do you like Hns Mos inducted into rotary club, isnt this the same club that weve discussed in past as possible ties to group partys with young girls at the rotary club?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 07:30:45 PM
Thank you Sandy I appreciate it!!

I was thinking it's probably not the polis van because it has a civilian license plate... although it is missing the tag that attaches to it.

Thank you again.

your welcome, How do you like Hns Mos inducted into rotary club, isnt this the same club that weve discussed in past as possible ties to group partys with young girls at the rotary club?

I think I saw that online and there is a picture I didn't grab, but Mos looks to be about 6 foot 6 easy!! As Kyle said - he's a big guy.

and I guess I wasn't surprised, but wondered why.... he's leaving 'Rooba in a year... unless....

seeeee, I wonder too much!!! ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: AZSunny on April 08, 2008, 07:31:34 PM
Sandy I think that was the Lion's club, not Rotary. 

Thanks for all of your translations! 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 07:40:16 PM
Thank you Sandy I appreciate it!!

I was thinking it's probably not the polis van because it has a civilian license plate... although it is missing the tag that attaches to it.

Thank you again.

your welcome, How do you like Hns Mos inducted into rotary club, isnt this the same club that weve discussed in past as possible ties to group partys with young girls at the rotary club?

I think I saw that online and there is a picture I didn't grab, but Mos looks to be about 6 foot 6 easy!! As Kyle said - he's a big guy.

and I guess I wasn't surprised, but wondered why.... he's leaving 'Rooba in a year... unless....

seeeee, I wonder too much!!! ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/MosRotaryClub2.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 07:42:05 PM
Sandy I think that was the Lion's club, not Rotary. 

Thanks for all of your translations! 

 Rotary Club a instala dos miembro nobo     
Monday, 07 April 2008 - 02:51

front.JPGRecientemente Rotary Club of Aruba a pin oficialmente dos miembro nobo na su Service Club. Nan ta den persona di Sr. Hans Mos y Sr. Arnoud Boesten. Presidente di Rotary, Sr. Bert Kamsteeg, a duna nan un caluroso bon bini durante di e ceremonia. Nan a ser felicita pa tur e miembronan di Rotary.

come across ::MonkeyHaHa:: I added that!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on April 08, 2008, 07:46:57 PM
Thank you Sandy I appreciate it!!

I was thinking it's probably not the polis van because it has a civilian license plate... although it is missing the tag that attaches to it.

Thank you again.

your welcome, How do you like Hns Mos inducted into rotary club, isnt this the same club that weve discussed in past as possible ties to group partys with young girls at the rotary club?

I think I saw that online and there is a picture I didn't grab, but Mos looks to be about 6 foot 6 easy!! As Kyle said - he's a big guy.

and I guess I wasn't surprised, but wondered why.... he's leaving 'Rooba in a year... unless....

seeeee, I wonder too much!!! ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/MosRotaryClub2.jpg)
Dang,Mos is ginormous and he doesn't look too comfortable there.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: BTgirl on April 08, 2008, 07:52:01 PM
Sandy I think that was the Lion's club, not Rotary. 

Thanks for all of your translations! 

 Rotary Club a instala dos miembro nobo     
Monday, 07 April 2008 - 02:51

front.JPGRecientemente Rotary Club of Aruba a pin oficialmente dos miembro nobo na su Service Club. Nan ta den persona di Sr. Hans Mos y Sr. Arnoud Boesten. Presidente di Rotary, Sr. Bert Kamsteeg, a duna nan un caluroso bon bini durante di e ceremonia. Nan a ser felicita pa tur e miembronan di Rotary.

come across ::MonkeyHaHa:: I added that!!!

Hi Rob,

I know that we see "come across" a lot in translations from Aruba, but do you have any idea what it's supposed to mean? I know it was probably explained at some point, but I'm usually out of the loop on most things.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 07:54:36 PM
Sandy I think that was the Lion's club, not Rotary. 

Thanks for all of your translations! 

 Rotary Club a instala dos miembro nobo     
Monday, 07 April 2008 - 02:51

front.JPGRecientemente Rotary Club of Aruba a pin oficialmente dos miembro nobo na su Service Club. Nan ta den persona di Sr. Hans Mos y Sr. Arnoud Boesten. Presidente di Rotary, Sr. Bert Kamsteeg, a duna nan un caluroso bon bini durante di e ceremonia. Nan a ser felicita pa tur e miembronan di Rotary.

come across ::MonkeyHaHa:: I added that!!!

Hi Rob,

I know that we see "come across" a lot in translations from Aruba, but do you have any idea what it's supposed to mean? I know it was probably explained at some point, but I'm usually out of the loop on most things.

Hi BT.. nice to see you... I *think* Klaas had it right... it's just a translation software thing. That's my guess too.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: BTgirl on April 08, 2008, 07:57:13 PM
Sandy I think that was the Lion's club, not Rotary. 

Thanks for all of your translations! 

 Rotary Club a instala dos miembro nobo     
Monday, 07 April 2008 - 02:51

front.JPGRecientemente Rotary Club of Aruba a pin oficialmente dos miembro nobo na su Service Club. Nan ta den persona di Sr. Hans Mos y Sr. Arnoud Boesten. Presidente di Rotary, Sr. Bert Kamsteeg, a duna nan un caluroso bon bini durante di e ceremonia. Nan a ser felicita pa tur e miembronan di Rotary.

come across ::MonkeyHaHa:: I added that!!!

Hi Rob,

I know that we see "come across" a lot in translations from Aruba, but do you have any idea what it's supposed to mean? I know it was probably explained at some point, but I'm usually out of the loop on most things.

Hi BT.. nice to see you... I *think* Klaas had it right... it's just a translation software thing. That's my guess too.

Thanks, Rob. I was fairly flummoxed by that one.  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 08, 2008, 08:05:27 PM
Morning monkeys!  I have a  few quick questions. Maybe someone will know the answers, for some reason I can't ever recall discussing this before, but then again I miss a lot.

What are the hours of operation of the party boat the Tattoo that Steve Croes worked on?

What EXACTLY was Steve Croes job on that boat?   

Thanks!

Not sure about the hours Lala's.  Steve was a DJ on the Tattoo.  It's possible that he sometimes drove it as well.  I believe he was supposed to be staying on the Tattoo that night as security and was fired because he wasn't doing his job. 

We don`t have that answer yet. We are looking into that to see what the boat`s movements were. We do know from the owner, Marcus Williams (sic), that Steve Croes did have a key to the boat. But the owner also tells us that the boat has a special electronic security system on it and he doesn`t believe that Steve Croes would have been able to take the boat without his permission. And he has described Steve Croes as a model employee, Nancy. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/17/ng.01.html

How about a test of the system?  If he has a special electronic system, what exactly does it secure?  Did he think to offer someone (another employee) say $100 to try and evade it?  What about Dompigs island radar?  Would a ship the size of the Tattoo have some kind identifying beacon that was used 24/7? 

What did this man do to test his theory that SC could not have taken the boat without permission?

What about cell phone traffic from the boat?  Satellite phone? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 08:17:35 PM
I think it's possible that the Tattoo could be used. However, I don't think it could be used to go where the Persistence was. The seas seems too ruff even at night. It's a boat so it could be used. I just don't think it's likely.

Just about every room in five hotels overlooks that area... even if this body disposal would have happened at 3 + am, there would be people seeing the Tattoo moving and would have thought that odd and reported it. So, it's possible because it is a boat, but unlikely in my opinion.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 08, 2008, 08:33:22 PM
Those translations are as clear as mud. LOL


What would be the going rate to procure females for willing to pay male clients?  Aruba is a hotbed of sources for finding women..so just come in pick out one OR give us your preferences and we will locate one for you.  How much would that cost?

+just fyi new info from diario paper today page from social happenings.  Maybe LaLa Hans Mos could awnser that question for you -seems he has been officially accepted as the new member to the  mens  rotary club.


Well, that gives me a great deal of confidence. He's fitting in real well down there, isn't he?  :roll:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: mrs. red on April 08, 2008, 08:35:07 PM
Tonight on Dana Pretzer:

Join Dana this week as he welcomes:

    * R. Stephanie Good, attorney and NY Times Best Selling Author
discussing The Secret Lives of Women
    * Don Clark, retired FBI bureau chief and current Private Investigator
discussing the ruling on the Bahamian inquest into the death of Daniel
Smith
    * Aden McEvoy, father of Becca McEvoy

LISTEN LIVE TONIGHT AT 9PM EASTERN

www.scaredmonkeysradio.com


I realize that it's off topic and this is a thread for Natalee but I want everyone to pls make sure and read the front page about Becca.... and send emails galore to help this case get the attention it deserves.  I know that part of Natalee's legacy is that we fight bad things happening to others... please also stand with this little girl... and we will always stand with the girl... just keep standing or you'll fall for anything.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 08, 2008, 08:36:05 PM
I think it's possible that the Tattoo could be used. However, I don't think it could be used to go where the Persistence was. The seas seems too ruff even at night. It's a boat so it could be used. I just don't think it's likely.

Just about every room in five hotels overlooks that area... even if this body disposal would have happened at 3 + am, there would be people seeing the Tattoo moving and would have thought that odd and reported it. So, it's possible because it is a boat, but unlikely in my opinion.


Given this premise...what are the chances that they used the Gottenbos boat for a body dump then? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 08, 2008, 08:46:05 PM
I think it's possible that the Tattoo could be used. However, I don't think it could be used to go where the Persistence was. The seas seems too ruff even at night. It's a boat so it could be used. I just don't think it's likely.

Just about every room in five hotels overlooks that area... even if this body disposal would have happened at 3 + am, there would be people seeing the Tattoo moving and would have thought that odd and reported it. So, it's possible because it is a boat, but unlikely in my opinion.

Just for grins...

Does anyone have the specs for the Tattoo?  Persistence?

I wonder how they compare with regard to size?

Is the end of May past hurricane season in Aruba?

I'll throw this out there too - would tourists staying in a hotel for just a few days know what the normal schedule for the Tattoo is?   

I'm thinking a tourist in Aruba for less than five days, would not know what the routine schedule for the Tattoo was.  This was also the last night for the music festival.  Isn't it possible there were more boats moving about?

Was there ever some data/statistics about normal traffic before, during, and after the festival?  Year over year comparison?  Any records/estimates of how many boats actually came from other islands for the festival?  How many boats are kept on a routine basis in the water on Aruba?

I'm thinking any body disposal did not happen on the beach by the hotels.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 08:50:50 PM
I think it's possible that the Tattoo could be used. However, I don't think it could be used to go where the Persistence was. The seas seems too ruff even at night. It's a boat so it could be used. I just don't think it's likely.

Just about every room in five hotels overlooks that area... even if this body disposal would have happened at 3 + am, there would be people seeing the Tattoo moving and would have thought that odd and reported it. So, it's possible because it is a boat, but unlikely in my opinion.


Given this premise...what are the chances that they used the Gottenbos boat for a body dump then? 

Well, just assuming there was an actually sea disposal, because we haven't heard anything official that connects anyone to any boat and for that matter to any DNA that relates to Natalee. So, at this point, in my opinion, if there was a body disposal at sea, it would involve boats known to the perpetrators.

If Vadir van der Loon is running drugs in a small boat, what are the odds that some one has used the Tattoo for such a crime? Small boats would be the key here... in my opinion.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 08:54:53 PM
I have to go back to two statements. One by Joran and one by TJ Ward.

TJ has always said that Colombians were involved.

Joran said she will never be found and higher powers.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 08:56:06 PM
Tonight on Dana Pretzer:

Join Dana this week as he welcomes:

    * R. Stephanie Good, attorney and NY Times Best Selling Author
discussing The Secret Lives of Women
    * Don Clark, retired FBI bureau chief and current Private Investigator
discussing the ruling on the Bahamian inquest into the death of Daniel
Smith
    * Aden McEvoy, father of Becca McEvoy

LISTEN LIVE TONIGHT AT 9PM EASTERN

www.scaredmonkeysradio.com


Tune in now, the show starts in a couple minutes!

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/radio.m3u


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 08, 2008, 08:58:53 PM
With regard to the water search for Natalee, BFN had JDS, LegallyLex, and Dave in chat on Sunday night.

There were a few things I'd never heard.  I didn't think to save them for reposting, but next time Kyle visits, maybe he could repost the information (in detail/correctly) here.  Maybe there could be a question thread for Kyle (or they could do a SM radio show). 

From memory -

JDS / LS and the searchers need a larger ROV.  The ROV that was initially used was about 10 hp.  What they need is something between 100 - 250 hp.  This would be roughly the size of a Yugo.

An ROV that size usually has a special ship.  The Dutch and US Navies are likely to have such a vessel in their fleet.  This kind of equipment is also used by oil companies as well.  If you have such equipment, now would be a good time to off their services.

John has been looking at a few things, but a larger ROV/ship is still needed.

The ROV that was used, checked out about one quarter (1/4) of the sites of interest.  The majority need further investigation.

There was discussion about what made an object a site of interest.  Basically, it had to be at least the size of the fish trap that was reported stolen.

If some has some corrections, please do (this is from memory).




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 08, 2008, 08:59:15 PM
I have to go back to two statements. One by Joran and one by TJ Ward.

TJ has always said that Colombians were involved.

Joran said she will never be found and higher powers.

That doesnt suprise me at all..We know Rene Van Heyningens GF swears a Colombian and a Aruban killed her husband. We also know Lorenzo had armed Colombians at his compound when TJ Ward went to visit him. Also as you know PVDS is supposed to be linked to a cartel,probably Colombian.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: private eye on April 08, 2008, 09:01:28 PM
Well,  it looks like Rudy is on drugs too with that shirt he has on!   ::MonkeyCool::

Rudy really needs to have someone dress him.  The colors he wears are not good for him at all.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

There are no clothes, no style, or colors that can dress up a man with a face that resembles a goat's ass:)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: private eye on April 08, 2008, 09:02:54 PM
Maybe Joran will committ a copy cat murder:) or Val.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 09:08:57 PM
I have to go back to two statements. One by Joran and one by TJ Ward.

TJ has always said that Colombians were involved.

Joran said she will never be found and higher powers.

That doesnt suprise me at all..We know Rene Van Heyningens GF swears a Colombian and a Aruban killed her husband. We also know Lorenzo had armed Colombians at his compound when TJ Ward went to visit him. Also as you know PVDS is supposed to be linked to a cartel,probably Colombian.

Hi *******, glad ya made the trip... and enjoying your new job.

As for the dead guy Rene, I heard a long time ago that it was a shovel that turned into a machete, anyhoo... there were a good deal of superficial minor cuts on his body. So, the conclusions was - she hit hit with the magical shovel that turned into a machete and tried to stab him a few more times that left the minor abrasions and that was that. case closed.

They believed that the depth of some of the superficial wounds indicated a woman because of the minor damage inflicted other than the throat wound.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Pita on April 08, 2008, 09:12:34 PM
I think it's possible that the Tattoo could be used. However, I don't think it could be used to go where the Persistence was. The seas seems too ruff even at night. It's a boat so it could be used. I just don't think it's likely.

Just about every room in five hotels overlooks that area... even if this body disposal would have happened at 3 + am, there would be people seeing the Tattoo moving and would have thought that odd and reported it. So, it's possible because it is a boat, but unlikely in my opinion.

Just for grins...

Does anyone have the specs for the Tattoo?  Persistence?

I wonder how they compare with regard to size?

Is the end of May past hurricane season in Aruba?

I'll throw this out there too - would tourists staying in a hotel for just a few days know what the normal schedule for the Tattoo is?   

I'm thinking a tourist in Aruba for less than five days, would not know what the routine schedule for the Tattoo was.  This was also the last night for the music festival.  Isn't it possible there were more boats moving about?

Was there ever some data/statistics about normal traffic before, during, and after the festival?  Year over year comparison?  Any records/estimates of how many boats actually came from other islands for the festival?  How many boats are kept on a routine basis in the water on Aruba?

I'm thinking any body disposal did not happen on the beach by the hotels.


Tattoo---The Caribbean Experience   
 Home 
 PROPOSAL THE SALE OF TATTOO
   

 We are pleased to offer for sale, the vessel TATTOO and a successful ongoing Caribbean charter business. The charter vessel TATTOO may also be purchased separately for a reduced price if it is to be relocated.
For seriously interested parties, a meeting may be arranged with our broker SBO Associates or our accountants for review of certain financial statements and profit and loss reports. Our attorney is available to answer any questions in respect to our island laws and legal matters and our shipping inspectors are available to answer questions pertaining to the vessel's condition and past inspection results and vessel compliance with SOLAS requirements.
   
Contact Us 
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 PARTICULARS   
 Engines:
(2) GM 12V71 (Both recently rebuilt)
Transmissions:
Twin Disc (3-1 reduction)  Twin propellers

Speed:
6 knots

Capacity:
294 passengers + 6 crew

Appraised Value of Vessel (2007):
US$ 850,000.00

Insured Value of Vessel (2007)
US $850,000.00

Appraised value of Additional Items:
  US$ 100,000.00


ASKING PRICE: Vessel and Business

US$ 795,000.00

   
 Vessel:
Caribbean Princess (Aka TATTOO) Vessel
Design:
Catamaran (three decks)

Hull Material:
Steel

Year Built:
1994

Tonnage:
159.16 BRT 96.08 NRT

Length:
31.60 meters (115 feet)

Beam:
10.00 meters (33 feet)

Draft:
2.4 meters

   
The vessel may be purchased separately for US $ 695,000.00.

 
 ASSETS INCLUDED IN SALE:
   
 CHARTER VESSEL:   CARIBBEAN PRINCESS   (Aka TATTOO)
   
 Economic Owner:  Caribbean Latitudes LTD
Legal Owner:  Sinbad Charters N.V.
Located:  Aruba, Dutch West Indies
Registered:  Curacao, Netherlands Antilles
Registration #:  PJVT -  2001
Approved Capacity:  294 Pax + 6 Crew
Flag:  Netherlands
  Type of Vessel:  Catamaran           Decks:  (3)
Gross Tonnage:  159.16 tons         Net Tonnage:  96.8 tons
Construction Material:  Steel          Last Survey:  2006
Year Built:  1994                           Built:  Puerto la Cruz, Venezuela

Dimensions:     
Length:  LOA  33.00 meters  (110 feet
Length: LWL  31.06 meters  (105 feet)
Beam:  10.00 meters  (33 feet) 
Depth:   2.4 meters  (8 feet)
Draft:   2.1 meters  (7 feet) 
Shell Plating Thickness:  9/32  (8 mil average)     
Framing:  5/16           
Bulkheads:  5/16 (8 water tight bulkheads in each pontoon)
Engine Rooms:  (2)                                                   
Cruising Speed:  7 knots
Make of Engines:  Detroit Deisels     Model:  12V71
H.P:  500 hp                               
Hours:  Port Engine rebuilt in 2006
Serial #:  Z68197127  (300 hrs)   
Hours:  Starboard Engine rebuilt in 2005                 
Serial #:  Z69197040  (600 hrs)         
Make of Transmissions:  Twin Disc              Ratio:  3 to 1
Make of Generators:  Twin Perkins 45 KW  ( Both rebuilt within the last two years)
Steering:  Hydraulic                               
Bilge Pumps:  (2) 1500 gal. Per hour electric pumps
1)  diesel powered fire pump which doubles as an emergency bilge pump
   
Tankage:
Fuel Tanks Capacity:
20,000 liters  (5,265 gallons)
Water Tanks Capacity:
20,000 liters  (5,265 gallons)
Waste Tanks Capacity:
20,000 liters  (5,265 gallons)
Slush Tank Capacity:
5,000 liters  (1,316 gallons)
Maintenance Work Room and Storage:  200 sq. feet  (25x8x8)
Liquor and Dry Storage:  200 sq. feet  (25x8x8)


Navigation Equipment:
1.  (2) VHF Radios
2.  Compass
3.  GPS Receiver
4.  Furno Radar (48 mile)
5.  Search Light:  200,000 candle power
6.  Air Horn
   
 Safety Equipment:
1.  Life Rafts for 300 Passengers and Crew
2.  Solas Approved Life Vests with lights and whistles  (294 + 6) (10% Childrens vests)
3.  Fire Extinguishers on each deck / Catering Area / Bridge
4.  CO2 remote manual activated fire extinguishers (Engine Rooms)
5.  Smoke Alarm systems in both engine rooms
6.  Automatic fire extinguisher in propane gas storage compartment
7.  Electrical fire pump with fire hose to access all areas of vessel
8.  Diesel back up fire pump
9.  Flare gun, flares, hand flares
10. EPIRB
11. Life Rings and man overboard lights on each deck
12. Fire Axe and Fire Blanket
13. First aid kit and supplies, oxygen kit and back board


http://www.tattoopartycruises.com/pages/inventory.html
 



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 08, 2008, 09:13:59 PM
From the BFN chat Sunday -

The topic of the shirt / fishnet came up.  IIRC, it is not known what happened to that scrap, I do not believe anyone in the family saw it.  It should have been further investigated.  What happened to it? 

The topic of the shoulder bone found by the scuba diver came up, it contained tissue.  This was determined by someone to be the "donkey bone." 

Why didn't the investigators communicate these discoveries to the entire investigation team? 
========================
My comments -

Who determined the bone was from a donkey?  Where was it sent for analysis?  Other bones were determined to be fish bones or not human.  Were any of these bones sent for analysis by experts?  IIRC, they were just tossed away.  Why would anyone toss out something that might be related to a missing human?  An active search?  When you knew your suspects were not telling the truth?

It is very sad to me that someone may have thrown away the only remaining evidence of what was once someone's daughter.  How could a small piece of shoulder bone with tissue harm anyone?  A DNA test might have eliminated all the questions, but I don't think the tissue was sent for analysis.

There are folks that have noted the stray and dead dogs on the island.  I've never been there.

How many stray and dead donkeys has anyone seen on Aruba?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: texasmom on April 08, 2008, 09:14:21 PM
Well,  it looks like Rudy is on drugs too with that shirt he has on!   ::MonkeyCool::

Rudy really needs to have someone dress him.  The colors he wears are not good for him at all.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

There are no clothes, no style, or colors that can dress up a man with a face that resembles a goat's ass:)
::MonkeyHaHa::  TRUE!  And nothing can disguise the EVIL I see in his face either!  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 08, 2008, 09:17:25 PM
ARUBA - RADAR SYSTEM

More Aruba Speak!  One radar system ... two official positions on its effectiveness to detect vessels leaving and entering Aruban waters.

Janet

++++++++++++

Natalee Holloway: New Clues
Investigator Tells 48 Hours She Probably Died From Excessive Alcohol, Maybe Drugs
Page 4 of 5
March 25, 2006


But Dr. Ruben Cruz, the head of the islands search and rescue team showed 48 Hours that an unweighted body thrown overboard near the shore would wash up on the beach.

Cruz says he and his team have tossed a dummy overboard many times, but that in every case, it drifted back to shore. The only way that wouldnt happen is if a boat sailed more than two miles offshore a trip that would have turned up on police radar and been captured on tape.

Police have accounted for every boat in the water the night Natalee vanished.  

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/22/48hours/main1430644_page4.shtml

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/03/28/gerold-dompig-states-in-48-hours-interview-that-radar-system-in-full-proof-really/


Dave Holloway
NANCY GRACE
April 24, 2006


GRACE: Well, Dave Holloway, aren`t there logs and isn`t there surveillance in place in Aruba of all the ships that go out of the tiny island, even at night?

HOLLOWAY: Well, there is but on one of those nights, I think it was June the 7th or June the 8th, the electricity went out on the island for about two hours so you wonder if that would have been the prime opportunity to do it. Small boats, I don`t think, can be picked up as well as the big ones.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/24/ng.01.html


Amigoe
November 2005
"Radar System Not Watertight"


ORANJESTAD The radar-system that monitors the coastline is not watertight. People still manage to enter Aruba illegally from sea. This was stated by the general commander of Warda nos Costa, Gerold Dompig. His statement challenges the words of Justice-minister Rudy Croes (MEP) who closed a lease contract for the radar equipment last year.

In June, July and August 2004 the radars were put into operation as a test. Vessels were placed out at sea to test the radars reach. The results were positive and the lease contract was signed till August 2007. A year later it becomes apparent that the radars efficiency is somewhat different in reality compared to the theoretical press presentation of Raytheon. Project coordinator Kelly confirms Dompigs statement that high waves influence the efficiency of the radar. The radar works well, but not during all types of weather. Heavy rainfall causes all kinds of spots on the screen, which makes it difficult to discern small boats. But, then again, no radar is full proof.

www.amigoe.com/

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/03/28/gerold-dompig-states-in-48-hours-interview-that-radar-system-in-full-proof-really/


Raytheon Canada Wins Contract for Coastal Surveillance in the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba

OTTAWA, Nov. 28, 2005 /PRNewswire/ -- Raytheon Canada, a wholly owned subsidiary of Raytheon Company (NYSE: RTN), has been awarded a contract valued at approximately $12 million (Euro 10 million) by the Royal Netherlands Navy and the Coast Guard of the Netherlands Antilles & Aruba (CGNA&A) to build an integrated coastal surveillance radar network on the islands of Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao, including long-term maintenance and training.

The system will enable the precision monitoring of marine traffic in the waters around the Dutch Caribbean. It will be used primarily for search and rescue and drug interdiction, but it will also help combat illegaimmigration.

The baseline system consists of eight radar sites equipped with a single command and control center based at the CGNA&A's rescue and coordination center in Curacao. Each site is composed of a Raytheon Canada Marine Small Target Tracker, Terma Scanter 2001 Radar from Terma of Denmark, wireless
communications and physical infrastructure. The command and control center will be provided by HITT Traffic of The Netherlands.

"This contract highlights Raytheon's industry leadership in coastal surveillance, advanced signal processing, and small target tracking technology," said Ron Fisher, president and CEO of Raytheon Canada. "We're delighted to team with HITT to create and design this complex system for the coast guard of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba. Our Waterloo facility has
provided strong leadership on this project."

Raytheon's Airspace Management and Homeland Security business area offers a broad range of automation and surveillance systems that are in use today in more than 50 countries around the world. The breadth of Raytheon's systems
includes automation, communication, navigation and surveillance. Products are available to both civil and military markets.

Investing in Canada since the 1950s, Raytheon Canada employs 1400 people at multiple sites in Alberta, British Columbia, Nova Scotia and Ontario, serving the aerospace and defense sectors with a broad range of high technology products and services.

Raytheon Company (NYSE: RTN), with 2004 sales of $20.2 billion, is an industry leader in defense and government electronics, space, information technology, technical services, and business and special mission aircraft.  With headquarters in Waltham, Mass., Raytheon employs 80,000 people worldwide.

Contact:
Corinne Kovalsky (Canada)
613.233.4121

Lynford Morton (U.S.)
703.284.4446

SOURCE  Raytheon Company

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/micro_stories.pl?ACCT=149999&TICK=RTN&STORY=/www/story/11-28-2005/0004223297&EDATE=Nov+28,+2005

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/03/28/gerold-dompig-states-in-48-hours-interview-that-radar-system-in-full-proof-really/


Terma Radar Systems selected supplier of SCANTER 2001 Radar Systems for Netherlands Antilles

With Terma Radar Systems supplying their renowned SCANTER 2001 Radar Sensor, the Coastguard of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba has selected HITT and Raytheon Canada to supply a surveillance system to facilitate the survey of the coastal waters surrounding the islands of Curacao, Aruba and Bonaire.

Each radar site will be composed of a Raytheon Canada Small Target Tracker, Terma SCANTER 2001 Radar, wireless communications and other infrastructure. The command and control centre will be provided by HITT Traffic of the Netherlands.

The SCANTER 2001 radar system provides precision monitoring of all kinds of marine traffic in the waters around the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba. The main purpose being to increase security and to stop landings of drugs, weapons and illegal immigrants.

The selection was made after fierce international competition on the basis of technological performance and price. Specifically, the Coastguard carried out extensive live tests at site in which small speedboats had to be detected and tracked in all kinds of weather conditions. The combination of high definition presentation of live radar and automatic target tracking proves very efficient and offers operational superiority in the growing world market of coastal surveillance systems.

The prime contract was entered between Raytheon and the Royal Netherlands Navy in November 2005. The coastal surveillance system comprising eight Terma radars, two control centres and network equipment, will be delivered by mid-2006.

http://www.terma.com/index.dsp?page=905#

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/03/28/gerold-dompig-states-in-48-hours-interview-that-radar-system-in-full-proof-really/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Pita on April 08, 2008, 09:17:43 PM
Legal Owner of Tattoo:  Sinbad Charters N.V.

SINBAD CHARTERS N.V. 
 
Business address NOORD 128-P, NOORD 
Legal form  LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY 
Name of the company  SINBAD CHARTERS N.V. 
Statutory seat  ARUBA 
Date of incorporation  23 JUNE 1992 
     

DIRECTORS - AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND CORPORATE BODIES - SUPERVISORY BOARD: 
 
CROES, ROLANDO JUAN
Residing in  CATIRI 7, NOORD, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 16 FEBRUARY 1948 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  MANAGING DIRECTOR 
Effective  23 JUNE 1992 
Authority  FULL 
   
WIGGINS, MARC ALAN
Residing in  TURIBANA 43-D, NOORD, ARUBA 
Born in  U.S.A., ITHACA, NEW YORK on 27 NOVEMBER 1950 
Nationality  AMERICAN 
Position  MANAGING DIRECTOR 
Effective  1 JUNE 2001 
Authority  FULL 
   


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 09:23:14 PM
Tonight on Dana Pretzer:

Join Dana this week as he welcomes:

    * R. Stephanie Good, attorney and NY Times Best Selling Author
discussing The Secret Lives of Women
    * Don Clark, retired FBI bureau chief and current Private Investigator
discussing the ruling on the Bahamian inquest into the death of Daniel
Smith
    * Aden McEvoy, father of Becca McEvoy

LISTEN LIVE TONIGHT AT 9PM EASTERN

www.scaredmonkeysradio.com


Tune in now, the show starts in a couple minutes!

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/radio.m3u

On now.  This interview with Stephanie Good has been great!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 09:23:46 PM
From the BFN chat Sunday -

The topic of the shirt / fishnet came up.  IIRC, it is not known what happened to that scrap, I do not believe anyone in the family saw it.  It should have been further investigated.  What happened to it? 

The topic of the shoulder bone found by the scuba diver came up, it contained tissue.  This was determined by someone to be the "donkey bone." 

Why didn't the investigators communicate these discoveries to the entire investigation team? 
========================
My comments -

Who determined the bone was from a donkey?  Where was it sent for analysis?  Other bones were determined to be fish bones or not human.  Were any of these bones sent for analysis by experts?  IIRC, they were just tossed away.  Why would anyone toss out something that might be related to a missing human?  An active search?  When you knew your suspects were not telling the truth?

It is very sad to me that someone may have thrown away the only remaining evidence of what was once someone's daughter.  How could a small piece of shoulder bone with tissue harm anyone?  A DNA test might have eliminated all the questions, but I don't think the tissue was sent for analysis.

There are folks that have noted the stray and dead dogs on the island.  I've never been there.

How many stray and dead donkeys has anyone seen on Aruba?


It's very sad to me that someone, anyone, could throw away Natalee. That's so sad. Makes my blood boil sometimes. Actually all the time.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 08, 2008, 09:23:59 PM
I have to go back to two statements. One by Joran and one by TJ Ward.

TJ has always said that Colombians were involved.

Joran said she will never be found and higher powers.

That doesnt suprise me at all..We know Rene Van Heyningens GF swears a Colombian and a Aruban killed her husband. We also know Lorenzo had armed Colombians at his compound when TJ Ward went to visit him. Also as you know PVDS is supposed to be linked to a cartel,probably Colombian.

Hi *******, glad ya made the trip... and enjoying your new job.

As for the dead guy Rene, I heard a long time ago that it was a shovel that turned into a machete, anyhoo... there were a good deal of superficial minor cuts on his body. So, the conclusions was - she hit hit with the magical shovel that turned into a machete and tried to stab him a few more times that left the minor abrasions and that was that. case closed.

They believed that the depth of some of the superficial wounds indicated a woman because of the minor damage inflicted other than the throat wound.



Thanks man! When they did the reconstruction of his death they lied to the Family when they did it and his brother was very upset that they changed the date and didnt notify him. They said in court she lied and they don't believe she carried him to the cemetary as they dont think it was possible she could have lifted him over the fence by herself. What is also strange is the landlord was a witness that said two men were involved. She was convicted even though she swears two men did it,last I recall she was appealing her sentence. Case closed.

Until someone proves to me otherwise,I believe the 4 people that were convicted in mutilating and burning pitbull admitted to it for exchange of a lesser sentence for getting nailed for cocaine distribution. These arrests were made after the Family went public to the media. I bet they they didn't receive anything for the drug convictions,only for what they said they did to Pitbull. They were also appealing there light sentences..It would not suprise me if they were all free right now except for that one guy that got 4 years.

I believe this was a cover up just like Pitbulls murder.MO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: private eye on April 08, 2008, 09:39:50 PM
If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed:)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 08, 2008, 09:41:12 PM
BFN chat  -

The crew of the Persistence also did their own investigation while on Aruba.  They spoke with LE.  Someone asked what they thought of the investigators, and John noted that they didn't meet with any of the original investigators.  It's a new group working the case and they want the case solved.  He did not comment on the originals, as they never met them or worked with them.  They investigated old and new tips, psychics, nutcases, and all kinds of possibilities.  When on land, they took the time to investigate many things.  (I don't remember all the specifics, this would make a nice follow-up question) 

From what I remember, it seems like they looked at the stories that have been floating around for over two years from a "feet on the ground" perspective.  They noted that ALE has a number of possibilities still under consideration.  (my summary - the usual suspects, they just don't know what/how it happened)

Someone mentioned that when JVDS videos came out, there was a lot of interest in the mangroves at the fishermens huts.  Someone asked how many of the huts around the island had mangroves near them?  Could it have been a different set of fishermen huts?  Dave mentioned that mangroves are all over the island.

The beach at the lighthouse was brought up.  I remember pictures of some lower cliff/beach by the lighthouse, that may have had trees, it had a parking lot.  The beach area did not look like it was in the line of site from the upper area, it was secluded.  I don't remember where I saw that picture.
====================

Of the fishermen huts, this comes from Joran.  Could a trap have been stolen from the huts by the hotels, and the mangrove have been from another hut/beach area? 

The topic of the strike came up.  I was not aware of how many people were on strike.  It's not just police and air traffic controllers, but a lot of government employees.  Hopefully the strikers returned to work on Monday.  They haven't had a raise since the late 1990's. 
============

John mentioned that the Dutch/Euro people thought they were searching for oil when they started.  This brought up mention of RU, and what that site is about.  Also mentioned that the Dutch map people asked for their data so they could update their maps of the island data.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: private eye on April 08, 2008, 09:41:19 PM
From the BFN chat Sunday -

The topic of the shirt / fishnet came up.  IIRC, it is not known what happened to that scrap, I do not believe anyone in the family saw it.  It should have been further investigated.  What happened to it? 

The topic of the shoulder bone found by the scuba diver came up, it contained tissue.  This was determined by someone to be the "donkey bone." 

Why didn't the investigators communicate these discoveries to the entire investigation team? 
========================
My comments -

Who determined the bone was from a donkey?  Where was it sent for analysis?  Other bones were determined to be fish bones or not human.  Were any of these bones sent for analysis by experts?  IIRC, they were just tossed away.  Why would anyone toss out something that might be related to a missing human?  An active search?  When you knew your suspects were not telling the truth?

It is very sad to me that someone may have thrown away the only remaining evidence of what was once someone's daughter.  How could a small piece of shoulder bone with tissue harm anyone?  A DNA test might have eliminated all the questions, but I don't think the tissue was sent for analysis.

There are folks that have noted the stray and dead dogs on the island.  I've never been there.

How many stray and dead donkeys has anyone seen on Aruba?


It's very sad to me that someone, anyone, could throw away Natalee. That's so sad. Makes my blood boil sometimes. Actually all the time.

Maybe they meant jack ass as Aruba is heavily populated with them ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 09:46:43 PM
Tonight on Dana Pretzer:

Join Dana this week as he welcomes:

    * R. Stephanie Good, attorney and NY Times Best Selling Author
discussing The Secret Lives of Women
    * Don Clark, retired FBI bureau chief and current Private Investigator
discussing the ruling on the Bahamian inquest into the death of Daniel
Smith
    * Aden McEvoy, father of Becca McEvoy

LISTEN LIVE TONIGHT AT 9PM EASTERN

www.scaredmonkeysradio.com


I realize that it's off topic and this is a thread for Natalee but I want everyone to pls make sure and read the front page about Becca.... and send emails galore to help this case get the attention it deserves.  I know that part of Natalee's legacy is that we fight bad things happening to others... please also stand with this little girl... and we will always stand with the girl... just keep standing or you'll fall for anything.

Coming up after the break, Becca's father


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 09:46:43 PM
If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed:)

you said it..



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: private eye on April 08, 2008, 09:47:30 PM
BFN chat  -

The crew of the Persistence also did their own investigation while on Aruba.  They spoke with LE.  Someone asked what they thought of the investigators, and John noted that they didn't meet with any of the original investigators.  It's a new group working the case and they want the case solved.  He did not comment on the originals, as they never met them or worked with them.  They investigated old and new tips, psychics, nutcases, and all kinds of possibilities.  When on land, they took the time to investigate many things.  (I don't remember all the specifics, this would make a nice follow-up question) 

From what I remember, it seems like they looked at the stories that have been floating around for over two years from a "feet on the ground" perspective.  They noted that ALE has a number of possibilities still under consideration.  (my summary - the usual suspects, they just don't know what/how it happened)

Someone mentioned that when JVDS videos came out, there was a lot of interest in the mangroves at the fishermens huts.  Someone asked how many of the huts around the island had mangroves near them?  Could it have been a different set of fishermen huts?  Dave mentioned that mangroves are all over the island.

The beach at the lighthouse was brought up.  I remember pictures of some lower cliff/beach by the lighthouse, that may have had trees, it had a parking lot.  The beach area did not look like it was in the line of site from the upper area, it was secluded.  I don't remember where I saw that picture.
====================

Of the fishermen huts, this comes from Joran.  Could a trap have been stolen from the huts by the hotels, and the mangrove have been from another hut/beach area? 

The topic of the strike came up.  I was not aware of how many people were on strike.  It's not just police and air traffic controllers, but a lot of government employees.  Hopefully the strikers returned to work on Monday.  They haven't had a raise since the late 1990's. 
============

John mentioned that the Dutch/Euro people thought they were searching for oil when they started.  This brought up mention of RU, and what that site is about.  Also mentioned that the Dutch map people asked for their data so they could update their maps of the island data.

The crew of the Persistence performed heroically and professionally. They did everything possible to help, and made the impossible possible


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Blue Moon on April 08, 2008, 09:48:43 PM
From the BFN chat Sunday -

The topic of the shirt / fishnet came up.  IIRC, it is not known what happened to that scrap, I do not believe anyone in the family saw it.  It should have been further investigated.  What happened to it? 

The topic of the shoulder bone found by the scuba diver came up, it contained tissue.  This was determined by someone to be the "donkey bone." 

Why didn't the investigators communicate these discoveries to the entire investigation team? 
========================
My comments -

Who determined the bone was from a donkey?  Where was it sent for analysis?  Other bones were determined to be fish bones or not human.  Were any of these bones sent for analysis by experts?  IIRC, they were just tossed away.  Why would anyone toss out something that might be related to a missing human?  An active search?  When you knew your suspects were not telling the truth?

It is very sad to me that someone may have thrown away the only remaining evidence of what was once someone's daughter.  How could a small piece of shoulder bone with tissue harm anyone?  A DNA test might have eliminated all the questions, but I don't think the tissue was sent for analysis.

There are folks that have noted the stray and dead dogs on the island.  I've never been there.

How many stray and dead donkeys has anyone seen on Aruba?


It's very sad to me that someone, anyone, could throw away Natalee. That's so sad. Makes my blood boil sometimes. Actually all the time.

Maybe they meant jack ass as Aruba is heavily populated with them ::MonkeyCool::

My, My. Aren't we on a roll tonight? ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 09:51:06 PM
ladies, I just wanted you to know I have a really hard time with the crimes against kids and usually don't even look in the threads... this little Becca McEvoy just breaks my heart.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 09:56:06 PM
ladies, I just wanted you to know I have a really hard time with the crimes against kids and usually don't even look in the threads... this little Becca McEvoy just breaks my heart.



Listening to her dad is heart breaking.  This is such a horrible and sad story.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 09:59:18 PM
ladies, I just wanted you to know I have a really hard time with the crimes against kids and usually don't even look in the threads... this little Becca McEvoy just breaks my heart.



Listening to her dad is heart breaking.  This is such a horrible and sad story.

I feel for her Dad and I hope she rests in peace in God's arms.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 08, 2008, 10:02:34 PM
If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed:)

My thoughts -

The Arubans may have investigated that one trap and its contents that was shown on TV.  And, they recovered something. 

I believe this is an opportunity for Arubans to hold their government accountable for sharing the results of what was found.  The contents in many ways represent the future of Aruba, my opinion.  If this wasn't Natalee, what was it?  Who was it?  How do you know this? 

Do Aruban's have the right to know what was recovered?

I think there is also much I haven't seen.  I haven't seen all the ROV footage of that cage.  I haven't seen any film the Aruban's took during their dive. 

Would the side scan radar have shown a skull shaped object in that cage?  It isn't clear to me just what the cage and contents would have looked like from the radar perspective.  Why was this a target?
=============

John repeated the message during chat that they were sorry that the family was informed about the cage (my paraphrase).  I believe it was not as promising as they expected.

Is the cage the one and only item of interest?  no.

Who would it benefit if they stopped looking?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 10:08:22 PM
GREAT SHOW DANA!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 08, 2008, 10:12:17 PM
I wonder about the F16 flyover Aruba and the data they collected.  How much of the data is from the water around Aruba? 

What did that water look like to the scanning equipment?  Looking at that area from the present, with new information from secret videos, are there areas that may be of renewed interest? 

Could any of the F16 info be used by Persistence?  I wonder if the Persistence had the opportunity to look at the F16 data?  Combine both sets of data?

Was ship data stored in Aruba from those days after Natalee went missing?  Did they track the path of ships/boats?  Especially those that left the island and returned within a short period of time?



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 10:14:56 PM
Please go to the Crimes against Children forum and read about Becca McElvoy.  The family needs our help emailing awareness about this case:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2773.0


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 08, 2008, 10:18:33 PM
Third Emergency landing of an American Airlines boeing 757 in less than 6 months in Aruba, the second in 3 weeks. Third Emergency landing of an American Airlines... 
Added: April 08, 2008

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HHlKqLYiZo8


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 08, 2008, 10:21:52 PM
ladies, I just wanted you to know I have a really hard time with the crimes against kids and usually don't even look in the threads... this little Becca McEvoy just breaks my heart.



Listening to her dad is heart breaking.  This is such a horrible and sad story.

I don't know how people can do things like this. 

Here is the online petition -

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/justice4her/index.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 08, 2008, 10:22:37 PM
If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed:)

PI ... I agree.

I cannot comprehend how the organizers of the Persistence search considers the Aruban police ...  who are accountable to Rudy Croes ... are on the side of justice for Natalee Holloway.  Has nothing been learned from the the search that was just terminated.

If a search cannot be conducted independently of Aruba or  ... FBI agents cannot observe and document a find prior to turning it over to the Arubans ... I believe with all my heart all the sincere efforts of the crew of the Persistence is for naught.  I cannot comprehend why the Persistence did not do their own documentation and photographing prior to releasing the contents of the fish trap to the Arubans.  Too much time, finances and effort was put into the search.  Why just hand it over to the administration that has distroyed evidence and supressed incriminating witness statements from the getgo.

Janet

+++++++++++

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_38773.php

Amigoe
January 17, 2008
Natalee abused by stepfather Jug


This time, the local media has paid plenty of attention to the story of Dan Young and Kelly Castillo.

ORANJESTAD Minister Rudy Croes (MEP) of Justice is of the opinion that the findings of the two American investigators Daniel Young and Kelly Castillo in the disappearance case of Natalee Holloway, must be seriously considered. The two assert that Natalees stepfather Jug Twitty has abused and impregnated her and that her mother Beth knew about it. The two also say that Natalee had died from an overdose two weeks after the night on the beach with Joran van der Sloot when she disappeared. Joran is innocent, said the investigators.

<snipped>

Croes is of the opinion that now that the case against the suspects Joran and the brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe has brought no results, the Public Prosecution must also consider other scenarios. Castillo and Youngs findings must therefore be seriously investigated, said the minister. After Beth has been in Oprahs program, it will be good to tell the other side of the story. Oprah Winfrey has spent some time on the Holiday-matter in her show yesterday.

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_38773.php


Oceanexplorer
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM


We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.  The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857#msg366857


Jossy Mansur
DANA SHOW
June 18, 2006


MANSUR: It does look very familiar to what she was wearing, but I'm unable to confirm it, we would have to go search for the fabric itself which has disappeared since. Every piece of evidence or what appears to be evidence has disappeared or we never heard about it again.

Jug Twitty
On the Record w/ Gret
September 28, 2005


TWITTY: No, I mean just things like, you know, one of the things when I left down there last time, we have another attorney, Helen, and Helen asked that three of the people that were with Beth and I that night we first arrived on the island, the FBI took their statements when they came back to the United States, but obviously, the Aruban police really didnt use their statements because I believe that the people there the first night, like myself, could give you answers as to what Joran said, what his dad said, what happened, all this kind of stuff.

So my attorney asked that we come back to the United States, take these three people, go to a federal judge, have them sworn in, and we have a federal judge here that was kind enough to help us bring these three friends in that were there that night and take their sworn statements. And of course, my attorney in Birmingham is calling down there, asking Karin Janssen, What exactly do you want? She wont even return his phone calls. I mean, its pitiful. Its horrible.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,170678,00.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 08, 2008, 10:25:33 PM
Third Emergency landing of an American Airlines boeing 757 in less than 6 months in Aruba, the second in 3 weeks. Third Emergency landing of an American Airlines... 
Added: April 08, 2008

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HHlKqLYiZo8

There was a report also that AA and Continental Airlines diverted to Curacao because of the strike.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 08, 2008, 10:28:36 PM
Why don't these people stand up to what is really killing there country and there economy? Asking that Governement to act in good faith? Are you kidding me??

StandUpForYourRights-INDEXERING-Aruba 2008

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ps5gVp-MU-g


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Kermit on April 08, 2008, 10:30:27 PM
My question is, and I don't think it's so far out there, was the Tattoo the place where girls were targeted? 

NO. It was ONE place.

Joran targetted Natalee & the other MB girls at the HI.
Those kids hang out at the hotels and pick up tourists.




Kermit - I agree, Joran's group of pimps targeted at the HI.  I'm just wondering if some targeting was being done by others on the Tattoo and maybe Steve Croes is involved in that aspect. 



Voyeurism at it's worst. Here is an old post.


Lucy on June 21st, 2005 12:46 pm
Kris
CRS is right. Checkme told us two days before it happened about the Steve Croes arrest anf the Lorenzo Van Sijn questioning. Also told us from the beginning that Deepak, the cool, calm, calculating Kalpoe has more responsibility than it seemed.
_________________________________
Lucy on June 21st, 2005 1:18 pm

Lorenzo is a friend of Steve Croes, the Kalpoes and Joran, that was broght in for questioning along with Max Arends, after Steve Croes was detained. For more info, check Brqaking News #10 and #11, at the discussion forum. There is also information on these guys at Misfitting.com
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/20/beth-twitty-on-greta-van-sustren/



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2008, 10:36:50 PM
down for the fight

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/mercedes3.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 08, 2008, 10:39:59 PM
Third Emergency landing of an American Airlines boeing 757 in less than 6 months in Aruba, the second in 3 weeks. Third Emergency landing of an American Airlines... 
Added: April 08, 2008

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HHlKqLYiZo8

There was a report also that AA and Continental Airlines diverted to Curacao because of the strike.

Sounds like a dangerous place to fly to. I think all flights should be stopped until that entire Government is replaced  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 08, 2008, 10:46:21 PM
Barack Obama's HATEFUL Pastor disrespects Natalee Holloway

Reverend Jeremiah Wright implied that Natalee Holloway's death was insignificant and implied that she was promiscuous while her family was still searching for missing daughter. Comments printed in Trumpet magazine in August 2005, and reports have been made that Obama was in the church when the Pastor made disgusting disrespectful comments about Natalee Holloway in July. Obama has had time to learn of these facts, and he was not in a campgaign when these statements by his pastor were made, but he is a policitian so we expect he will deny knowledge of these statements.. like the statments uncovered about JEWS and Italians in the churches Trumpet magazine.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=G-3YCS9n81c


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: jackb on April 08, 2008, 10:53:30 PM
STEVE CROES AND GEOFFREY VAN CROMVOIRT CONNECTION

It appears that Steve Croes was fired for leaving his night shift as a watchman on the Tattoo.

My theory implies that it was Geoffrey van Cromvoirt and Steve Croes who assisted Paulus in moving Natalee's body which had been hidden by Joran, Deepak and Satish in the bushes.

Geoffrey van Cromvoirt was not detained as a formal susect until April, 2006.  However he was assigned the same attorney as Steve Croes.  Karin Janssen had implied that this was conflict of interest when one attorney was represented both Security Guards.

Janet

This makes the most sense outta everything I have heard or speculated upon. I just wonder if Steve was involved in body disposal he would come forward and subject himself to further scrutiny and not remain under the radar?

as a family member of Steve's has told me - "Steve's not too bright"
 
Steve and GVC were good friends and their alibis would be covered if they had someone to say she was dropped off and then Steve witnessed a drop off.  That would mean she was not dead and went to the HI before disappearing.  They actually supplied themselves a tight alibi by alibi ing JVS.  jackb
/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 08, 2008, 10:54:28 PM
Barack Obama's HATEFUL Pastor disrespects Natalee Holloway

Reverend Jeremiah Wright implied that Natalee Holloway's death was insignificant and implied that she was promiscuous while her family was still searching for missing daughter. Comments printed in Trumpet magazine in August 2005, and reports have been made that Obama was in the church when the Pastor made disgusting disrespectful comments about Natalee Holloway in July. Obama has had time to learn of these facts, and he was not in a campgaign when these statements by his pastor were made, but he is a policitian so we expect he will deny knowledge of these statements.. like the statments uncovered about JEWS and Italians in the churches Trumpet magazine.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=G-3YCS9n81c

January 27, 2008
Obama's pastor disses Natalee Holloway
'White girl goes off and gives it up' in Aruba, preacher pal


Sen. Barack Obama's longtime friend and spiritual adviser trashed the memory of a missing and presumed dead American teenage girl, according to church publications reviewed by WND.

Rev. Jeremiah Wright, the controversial minister of Obama's church in Chicago, cited the case of Natalee Holloway's disappearance in Aruba in complaining about what he sees as the media's bias in covering white victims of crime over black victims.

"Black women are being raped daily in Darfur, Sudan, in the Congo and in Sub-Saharan Africa. That doesn't make news," Wright said in the August 2005 edition of Trumpet Magazine, a publication of his Trinity United Church of Christ.

But, "One 18-year-old white girl from Alabama gets drunk on a graduation trip to Aruba, goes off and 'gives it up' while in a foreign country, and that stays in the news for months!" he added. "Maybe I am missing something!"

The circumstances involving the coed's disappearance remain unclear, and the case remains unsolved. Holloway left Mountain Brook, Ala., on a May 2005 senior class trip to Aruba.

Attempts to reach her family for comment were unsuccessful. But her mother, Beth Holloway, has written a book, "Loving Natalee," in which she reveals her daughter named Jesus Christ as one of the most influential people in her life in a trove of writings she found in her bedroom.

In the same 2005 church publication, Wright suggested "white America" had the 9/11 attacks coming, while calling for business "divestment from Israel," which he refers to as a "racist" state along with America.

"In the 21st century, white America got a wake-up call after 9/11/01," he wrote on page 7. "White America and the Western world came to realize that people of color had not gone away, faded into the woodwork or just 'disappeared,' as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring Black concerns."

Obama says he is "proud" of Wright and values their 20-year friendship.

Though Wright has nurtured Obama's political career as a close adviser and mentor, the Democrat presidential hopeful says they don't agree on everything. Wright married Obama and baptized his daughters.

In the November/December 2007 issue of Trumpet, Wright sang the praises of Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan, who has described whites as "blue-eyed devils" and Jews as "bloodsuckers."

"He brings a perspective that is helpful and honest," Wright said. "Minister Farrakhan will be remembered as one of the 20th and 21st century giants of the African-American religious experience."

Wright then held Farrakhan up as a pillar of "integrity."

"His integrity and honesty have secured him a place in history as one of the nation's most powerful critics," he continued. "His love for Africa and African-American people has made him an unforgettable force, a catalyst for change and a religious leader who is sincere about his faith and his purpose."

Farrakhan's photo is splashed across the cover of the church magazine, which gushes "the Minister truly epitomized greatness."

On Nov. 2, 2007, Wright presented Farrakhan with a "lifetime achievement" award during a Trumpet gala held at the Hyatt Regency Chicago. The tribute included a three-and-a-half minute video lionizing "the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan."

"For his commitment to truth, education and leadership, we honor Minister Louis Farrakhan with the Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Lifetime Achievement Award," the video announces.

Last week, Obama distanced himself from Farrakhan, but did not distance himself from Wright or disavow his praise for Farrakhan.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59887


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 08, 2008, 10:59:54 PM
If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed:)

you said it..



Does this mean that Aruba confiscated any and all things found by the Persisitence?  ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: jackb on April 08, 2008, 11:04:07 PM
Rob
I am asking this to determine that Steve Croes was not one of those "guys" that chatted up the MB girls in the casino.  I think I can make that assumption based on the fact that Steve would have been working during that time on the Tattoo.  Steve told Deepak he saw them at the HI dropping off the girl. I think Steve wanted to know what Deepak knew and it backfired on him.  I am basing that on some things posted for me in the Shango thread. I have seen photos of Steve at Moombas before when he wasn't working.  I wish I had checked to see what time and day of the week it was.  I can't remember now how I came by those photos...I think it was someone's vacation photos and I remember him being shown walking off into the night with a girl and someone else.

Anyway, the reason was to determine if he was with Joran at the casinos during the time the MB teens were there at night on Friday and Saturday.  If the Tattoo has daytime cruises also...who DJ's those?  Surely he didn't work both times?  That would be long hours even for a young guy.  IMO

LaLa's that was just my speculation that they also had daytime cruises, they may just have the sunset cruise. 

On ships people who are staff are assigned posts to watch so many nights a month.  Often times,  depending upon how many employees it would be only one night.  They are on call and are supposed to secure the premesis.  It is overnight if their overnight duty is called for even sometimes after working  that day.  Croes was able bodied and supposed to be wanting to study to become a Captain of a ship.  He had to learn and do his time as a seaman, etc.  Jackb


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 08, 2008, 11:21:32 PM
I'M suprised the tatoo wasn't hosting a big party on the night of May 29th 2005,since it was the last night of the Soul Beach Festival. We saw how much they advertise the after Concert party's in todays paper...What time did Steve Croes arrive at C&C at? Was it also 30 minutes before closing?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: AZSunny on April 08, 2008, 11:28:15 PM
Third Emergency landing of an American Airlines boeing 757 in less than 6 months in Aruba, the second in 3 weeks. Third Emergency landing of an American Airlines... 
Added: April 08, 2008

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HHlKqLYiZo8

*******,  I saw another video that showed the plane landing.  I would not want to land in Aruba during this type of emergency.  Many years ago I was a crew member aboard an airliner with a similar situation.  The hydraulic gear was down, but they could not confirm that it was locked in placed.  This could have resulted in a belly landing had the gear not been locked. This occurred on arrival in Denver.  Prior to our landing the runways were foamed, and as we touched down until we stopped there were 6 fire trucks on either side of us following us  parallel down the run way.  I was a passenger arriving in San  Francisco when we had a similar situation.  At no time did they wait until we had already landed until the fire trucks started moving.  Scares me to watch this video. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 08, 2008, 11:49:32 PM
If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed:)

PI ... I agree.

I cannot comprehend how the organizers of the Persistence search considers the Aruban police ...  who are accountable to Rudy Croes ... are on the side of justice for Natalee Holloway.  Has nothing been learned from the the search that was just terminated.

If a search cannot be conducted independently of Aruba or  ... FBI agents cannot observe and document a find prior to turning it over to the Arubans ... I believe with all my heart all the sincere efforts of the crew of the Persistence is for naught.  I cannot comprehend why the Persistence did not do their own documentation and photographing prior to releasing the contents of the fish trap to the Arubans.  Too much time, finances and effort was put into the search.  Why just hand it over to the administration that has distroyed evidence and supressed incriminating witness statements from the getgo.

Janet

+++++++++++
(snip by WG)

IIRC, there were concerns voiced about the value of any evidence found for a criminal case.  What if Aruba was not involved in the gathering and documenting?

It is my belief (from the early days and today) that no criminal case would ever be brought against J2K and others.  It was my hope that something of Natalee would be returned to her family.  I remain optimistic.  This family deserves answers.  Justice for Natalee is not something I thought possible under the circumstances, just to many conflicts of interest.  mo 

When I look at the Rudy Croes & the comments about Young and Castillo, I see desperation.  When I see JVDS in hiding, I see desperation.  If anyone recognized that cage, I think the desperation would have escalated into something else.  No one is running to testify.  mo 

Who among these folks would want to see the water search continue? 

Politicians have to gain the confidence of voters every reelection.  I see an island, where the minimum wage is something like $1,200/month (IIRC).  I recall that JVDS got something like $300/month pocket money from his parents.  Maybe someone on Aruba noticed this?  I remain optimistic.

I believe most government employees on Aruba are civil servants.  In theory, they remain constant despite the administrations that come and go.  In this case, many involved early in this case, except Jacobs, seem to have left the island and/or the police force.  I remain optimistic that people and places (like an island) can change for the better.  jmho

Louis S. has given a lot of resources in the hope that Natalee would be returned to her family.  From my reading, I believe he continues to support that goal. 

There are hundreds of targets that haven't been investigated by the ROV.  There are hundreds that haven't been investigated by divers.  I have hope that Natalee is still out there.  I have hope that a bigger, better equipped ROV will do the job of documenting these sites. 

If all of these people were defeated, I would lose hope.

I do not believe the search for Natalee is over.  I believe the mapping of targets has been completed.  What remains is to further investigate these items of interest.  The data for the targets belongs to LS.

How many people may be lost in the waters surrounding Aruba I do not know.  I do know if Natalee is out there, there are many that will continue to work at returning her to her family.  The truth (and maybe a pair of gym shoes) is still out there.

It breaks my heart everytime I hear Dave, Jug, or Beth talk about Natalee.  It breaks my heart everytime I see Dave in chat.  I wonder how he can make his fingers move over the keyboard.

No one place has a monopoly on good people.  People of good character are everywhere.  mo

I believe that Aruba has to hold their administration accountable for the contents of that trap.  I have my fingers crossed.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 08, 2008, 11:56:00 PM
Third Emergency landing of an American Airlines boeing 757 in less than 6 months in Aruba, the second in 3 weeks. Third Emergency landing of an American Airlines... 
Added: April 08, 2008

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HHlKqLYiZo8

*******,  I saw another video that showed the plane landing.  I would not want to land in Aruba during this type of emergency.  Many years ago I was a crew member aboard an airliner with a similar situation.  The hydraulic gear was down, but they could not confirm that it was locked in placed.  This could have resulted in a belly landing had the gear not been locked. This occurred on arrival in Denver.  Prior to our landing the runways were foamed, and as we touched down until we stopped there were 6 fire trucks on either side of us following us  parallel down the run way.  I was a passenger arriving in San  Francisco when we had a similar situation.  At no time did they wait until we had already landed until the fire trucks started moving.  Scares me to watch this video. 

 ::MonkeyEek:: You sound like you have earned your wings flying and if it scares you it would probably give others heart attacks. Two Emergency landings for AA in 3 weeks is a lot for that little airport.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 08, 2008, 11:59:23 PM
I'M suprised the tatoo wasn't hosting a big party on the night of May 29th 2005,since it was the last night of the Soul Beach Festival. We saw how much they advertise the after Concert party's in todays paper...What time did Steve Croes arrive at C&C at? Was it also 30 minutes before closing?

How many people were locals at the festival?  I often wonder how many just went home after the show.  Someone in an early post at RWV stated that many Aruban's had to work the next day, and they just went home.  No time to party.  I think Sunday night is slow (as reported by locals). 

I wonder if any pictures of the Tattoo exist from that day?  Maybe in a distance?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 09, 2008, 12:01:59 AM
Third Emergency landing of an American Airlines boeing 757 in less than 6 months in Aruba, the second in 3 weeks. Third Emergency landing of an American Airlines... 
Added: April 08, 2008

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HHlKqLYiZo8

*******,  I saw another video that showed the plane landing.  I would not want to land in Aruba during this type of emergency.  Many years ago I was a crew member aboard an airliner with a similar situation.  The hydraulic gear was down, but they could not confirm that it was locked in placed.  This could have resulted in a belly landing had the gear not been locked. This occurred on arrival in Denver.  Prior to our landing the runways were foamed, and as we touched down until we stopped there were 6 fire trucks on either side of us following us  parallel down the run way.  I was a passenger arriving in San  Francisco when we had a similar situation.  At no time did they wait until we had already landed until the fire trucks started moving.  Scares me to watch this video. 

 ::MonkeyEek:: You sound like you have earned your wings flying and if it scares you it would probably give others heart attacks. Two Emergency landings for AA in 3 weeks is a lot for that little airport.

I wonder what is happening at other airports?  Stories that may not make the international news?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 09, 2008, 12:19:16 AM
I'M suprised the tatoo wasn't hosting a big party on the night of May 29th 2005,since it was the last night of the Soul Beach Festival. We saw how much they advertise the after Concert party's in todays paper...What time did Steve Croes arrive at C&C at? Was it also 30 minutes before closing?

How many people were locals at the festival?  I often wonder how many just went home after the show.  Someone in an early post at RWV stated that many Aruban's had to work the next day, and they just went home.  No time to party.  I think Sunday night is slow (as reported by locals). 

I wonder if any pictures of the Tattoo exist from that day?  Maybe in a distance?

Not sure..Probably a good amount of locals were at the SBF the last night. I dont recall seeing any pics of the Tatoo that night,and not too many at all period from that night. While most Arubans were heading to bed,it seems as though the Pimp party just began. I doubt any of them have alibi's that clear them on that night..Including lorenzo and paulus. I still wonder what exactly Paul Brough was uploading to his server for the first time on May 30th 2005? Is that just a coincidence that was his first day of archiving his server at mrpinkproductions?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 09, 2008, 12:25:16 AM
Mrpinkproductions
Whois History: 27 records have been archived since 2005-05-30. 

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/mrpinkproductionscom.jpg)
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/MrPinkProductions.jpg)
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/PaulBroughSprintsubpoena.jpg)
(http://i198.photobet.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/pinkproductions-1.jpg)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2068.0


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 09, 2008, 12:37:37 AM
Has anyone looked into this http://www.guide2paradise.com/

Posted by: Island Hopper | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 12:59 PM

Sorry for the nasty link but I was intrigued that it offers girls in ARUBA. Specializes in blonds! A small island with no crime that has such a large scale prostitution ring? That is supposedly legal? I am very confused and asking if anyone else knows anything about it. Does anyone?

Posted by: Island Hopper | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 01:16 PM

One thing that bothered me is that some of the photos in the ad had backgrounds that looked very familiar. After checking, some photos were taken at the same location as the photos in Joran's website. I wonder if this was the rush to take his website down.

Posted by: Island Hopper | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 01:44 PM

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/one_last_thing.html

-------------------------------------

Pictures from porn video called Poolside B**** and Mr Pink(Rape and Abduction)
Was thisthe kind of films he was making in Aruba in May 2005?

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/cap022.jpg)
(http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/8328/poolsidebitchfm1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 09, 2008, 12:40:31 AM

<snipped>

I do not believe the search for Natalee is over.  I believe the mapping of targets has been completed.  What remains is to further investigate these items of interest.  The data for the targets belongs to LS.

<snipped>


The data for the targets may belong to LS but ... what is the point if the search is being conducted with the understanding  that any evidence that may be accumulated is to be to turned over to Aruba.

WhiskeyGirl ... there has to be a chain of custody.  Logic dictates that the Persistance should document, photograph and notorize the find ... the FBI should document, photograph and notorize the find ... prior to releasing it to the Arubans.  Justice for Natalee Holloway demands it.

Think about all the controversy encompassing the "blood" in Deepak's vehicle.  The Aruban Prime Minister said it was blood yet ... the samples of the fabric tested by the FBI lab turned out to be cleaning fluid.

IMO

Janet

+++++++++

Oceanexploration

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM


We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.  The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.


If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed:)






 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 09, 2008, 12:52:39 AM
Good Night Monkeys

Janet
9:50 PM


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 09, 2008, 01:09:42 AM
Good Night Monkeys

Janet
9:50 PM


Nite Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Silverfox on April 09, 2008, 01:27:55 AM
A little background on the Aru-bay website.  According to the website it was started so that locals could share there videos about Aruba.

These two Tattoo videos were uploaded to the Aru-bay site on April 3, 2005.  I find them both very strange:

smallmovie5

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/th_smallmovie5.jpg) (http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/?action=view&current=smallmovie5.flv)

smallmovie6

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/th_smallmovie6.jpg) (http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/?action=view&current=smallmovie6.flv)



Klass, I beleive these two vids may be extremely revealing if you step outside the box.  The girls yes... but look who is watching the girls... one short man with a mustache stand out as do a couple of other men -- like players who move the room... watch the last 30 secs of the first vid -- appears one young man touches the girl and she does all she can to get away from him while the mustached guy seems to also appears in some of the sequences... Maybe just me -- this might be video proof of "scouting"...

just an observation ...fwiw


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Silverfox on April 09, 2008, 01:49:16 AM
A little background on the Aru-bay website.  According to the website it was started so that locals could share there videos about Aruba.

These two Tattoo videos were uploaded to the Aru-bay site on April 3, 2005.  I find them both very strange:

smallmovie5

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/th_smallmovie5.jpg) (http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/?action=view&current=smallmovie5.flv)

smallmovie6

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/th_smallmovie6.jpg) (http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/?action=view&current=smallmovie6.flv)



Klass, I beleive these two vids may be extremely revealing if you step outside the box.  The girls yes... but look who is watching the girls... one short man with a mustache stand out as do a couple of other men -- like players who move the room... watch the last 30 secs of the first vid -- appears one young man touches the girl and she does all she can to get away from him while the mustached guy seems to also appears in some of the sequences... Maybe just me -- this might be video proof of "scouting"...

just an observation ...fwiw

In addition...

THINK EARRINGS!

In some of the pics I have seen taken of Natalee that night She was wearing some long silver-like earrings at least earlier ... Now look at these vids and note that the camera man likes to zoom in on the Earrings, right?

Could someone have bought earrings for these girls as a gift for them to wear aboard the tattoo where scouts would scout them out as on a selection tour?  Maybe this is a link...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: GBMW on April 09, 2008, 05:35:11 AM
Also meant to add -- IMO, this was never and will never be about money.

It's all about 'discovery'

AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT....IT DOES

Justice for Natalee



I agree...but what kind of a person would think that under these circumstances? And really...how much money does he have anyway? But then again....I heard he's a good pokerplayer ;-)

GBMW -- thinking about this (highlighted in red) depresses me immensely.

I'm a baby boomer who came to her rights of passage in the 70's  ::MonkeyHaHa:: And I've said since the early early days of this story that I would not judge a single family member (and RH makes that value difficult) until the truth is known as I would never want to walk an inch in their flip flops (I live in Miami  ::MonkeyHaHa:: )

When I look back at the early days of June '05 -- and the intentional lies and deceptions and misniformation campaigns that were propagated (and financially supported) by a government and tourism industry, I get sick to my stomach that such creatures live on my earth.

And the fact that several apparently US traitors (no - they cannot be considered ex-pats) lead that bandwagon just turns up the disgust.

I have had to STOP thinking about what makes these creatures 'tick' because it defies the logic of mankind. And supports the logic of pyschopaths. And makes me cry.

Can you tell that I don't visit the sites visited by the 'dark side' ?  ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::


Boycott Aruba
Justice for Natalee


Hi Sharon,

yes I can tell ;-). You live in Miami? Awwww...I'm going to the States for a couple of weeks soon and Miami is a place I would love to visit but it couldn't be put in our schedule.

I'm not for boycotting Aruba though. There are a lot of people on Aruba who have done nothing wrong and who have to live from tourism. Why hurt people for something they did not take part in and who hate the situation as much as any 'normal' person would?

I understand the people in higher functions / the corrupt people won't change unless other people make them too...but hurting people that have nothing to do with it and have to make a living for their own families isn't the way it should be done according to me. I don't have the answers on how to put the right presssure on the ALE but making even more innocent people the victim doesn't feel right to me.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Nut44x4 on April 09, 2008, 08:16:09 AM
I think it's possible that the Tattoo could be used. However, I don't think it could be used to go where the Persistence was. The seas seems too ruff even at night. It's a boat so it could be used. I just don't think it's likely.

Just about every room in five hotels overlooks that area... even if this body disposal would have happened at 3 + am, there would be people seeing the Tattoo moving and would have thought that odd and reported it. So, it's possible because it is a boat, but unlikely in my opinion.

I totally agree.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Blonde on April 09, 2008, 08:18:47 AM
That is quite a different story compared to the Amigoe article back in November 2005 entitled, Radar-system not watertight.
 I can't find this artical


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Nut44x4 on April 09, 2008, 08:19:24 AM
If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed:)


I totally agree. I boggles my mind that anything at all would be handed over to them. That is insane.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Bearlyhere on April 09, 2008, 08:25:59 AM
I think it's possible that the Tattoo could be used. However, I don't think it could be used to go where the Persistence was. The seas seems too ruff even at night. It's a boat so it could be used. I just don't think it's likely.

Just about every room in five hotels overlooks that area... even if this body disposal would have happened at 3 + am, there would be people seeing the Tattoo moving and would have thought that odd and reported it. So, it's possible because it is a boat, but unlikely in my opinion.


Given this premise...what are the chances that they used the Gottenbos boat for a body dump then? 

Hi Lalas:

We must be doing pretty good here.  I haven't seen you sharpening your pencils in a long time.  I have to say, I miss the late night chats we used to have here.  I am not sure if you remember Leah, the baby I asked people to pray for long ago.  There is an update about her family in the prayer thread.  Check it out.

I have wondered about the Tatoo.  I keep tossing this idea around in my head and don't know if this is likely.  Could they have attached her to the Tatoo someway and cut her loose when they were at sea?  (It's a horrible thought, but I need to remember we are talking about someone who does not see people as human beings but as objects to get his desires met.)  When we were talking about how many miles the Tatoo goes out, someone said it was within the range it needed to be so the body did not come back to shore.

This is what they do with drugs, attach them to the hull of the ship and cut them loose at the proper spot.  The guys involved here are all hooked into drugs in some way.  I wonder if they were thinking like drug runners.

Just a thought that keeps bouncing around in my head (the echo in there is deafening).


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Bearlyhere on April 09, 2008, 08:34:21 AM
With regard to the water search for Natalee, BFN had JDS, LegallyLex, and Dave in chat on Sunday night.

There were a few things I'd never heard.  I didn't think to save them for reposting, but next time Kyle visits, maybe he could repost the information (in detail/correctly) here.  Maybe there could be a question thread for Kyle (or they could do a SM radio show). 

From memory -

JDS / LS and the searchers need a larger ROV.  The ROV that was initially used was about 10 hp.  What they need is something between 100 - 250 hp.  This would be roughly the size of a Yugo.

An ROV that size usually has a special ship.  The Dutch and US Navies are likely to have such a vessel in their fleet.  This kind of equipment is also used by oil companies as well.  If you have such equipment, now would be a good time to off their services.

John has been looking at a few things, but a larger ROV/ship is still needed.

The ROV that was used, checked out about one quarter (1/4) of the sites of interest.  The majority need further investigation.

There was discussion about what made an object a site of interest.  Basically, it had to be at least the size of the fish trap that was reported stolen.

If some has some corrections, please do (this is from memory).




Do you have to be a member there to see the chat?  I thought there was a problem with this site (something to do with the family?).  Do I have the wrong impression?  Is there a list of family friendly sites vs those that are talking out of their butts?

I really hate to go to the nasty sites.  I have to give my computer an enema afterwards to get all the $h!t out of it when I'm done.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 09, 2008, 09:01:09 AM
New actions has started for this week

Tourists were still troubled by the public employees protest march at the airport last Saturday.  The public employees, among whom many teachers, hit the streets again this morning (picture right).

ORANJESTAD A big group of public employees, about 500 to 1000, gathered again this morning to demonstrate for salary increases.  Many teachers answered Simars call for strike.  At the time this paper went to press, we had no idea of how many students didnt have classes today due to the strike.  None of the schools did close however.

In the meantime, the government and the public servant unions didnt get one step closer to each other, after the unions made their last proposal last Friday.  We reacted with four options on the proposal: another salary system; reorganization; oriented on performance; and/or core-job analysis to compromise and be able to pay for the indexation.  We have also proposed to them to come with other ideas and/or conditions, to scrape together the money, said lawyer Anthony Ruiz, who represents the National government.  However, the unions insist that they do not want to come up with solutions; they only want the payment they are claiming.  The unions do not consider this their problem, thus the deadlock remains, says Ruiz.

Chances are that government and union will meet each other again in court.  Despite the court verdict of last week, the fire department is also going to join the actions tomorrow.  The court has already considered prohibiting this department to go on strike, due to the fact that the department is already understaffed and the actions may not have consequences for the availability.  We already foresee problems due to the actions and we are studying the verdict, says Ruiz, who didnt want to say whether the government is really going to continue with a lawsuit.

After the judge decided last Saturday that the public employees are allowed to demonstrate in front of the airport, a big group marched with banners, drums, and slogans from the Simar-building to the arrival- and departure terminals of the airport.  The arriving passengers were troubled by this, because they couldnt leave directly for their hotels by taxi.  Spokesperson of AAA, Hendrik Croes, said that the tourists had to wait in the arrival hall for about 45 minutes and they were not very pleased with this. The effect of the demonstration was the same as last time, when the intersection in front of the airport was blocked.

AAA was a little disappointed with the verdict of the judge in the lawsuit that AAA, ATIA, and AHATA had instituted last Saturday.  The lawsuit was to prevent a blockade of the airport.  This time around, the demonstrators were not allowed to block the intersection at the airport, but they still hindered the traffic again, said Croes.  However, as far as he is aware of, tourists have not missed connections with a cruise ship.  AAA is not officially informed about tomorrows planned actions of customs, immigration, and fire department.  We have not received a letter, thus we know nothing officially"

Amigoe.com


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: wreck on April 09, 2008, 09:15:54 AM
New actions has started for this week

Tourists were still troubled by the public employees protest march at the airport last Saturday.  The public employees, among whom many teachers, hit the streets again this morning (picture right).

ORANJESTAD A big group of public employees, about 500 to 1000, gathered again this morning to demonstrate for salary increases.  Many teachers answered Simars call for strike.  At the time this paper went to press, we had no idea of how many students didnt have classes today due to the strike.  None of the schools did close however.

In the meantime, the government and the public servant unions didnt get one step closer to each other, after the unions made their last proposal last Friday.  We reacted with four options on the proposal: another salary system; reorganization; oriented on performance; and/or core-job analysis to compromise and be able to pay for the indexation.  We have also proposed to them to come with other ideas and/or conditions, to scrape together the money, said lawyer Anthony Ruiz, who represents the National government.  However, the unions insist that they do not want to come up with solutions; they only want the payment they are claiming.  The unions do not consider this their problem, thus the deadlock remains, says Ruiz.

Chances are that government and union will meet each other again in court.  Despite the court verdict of last week, the fire department is also going to join the actions tomorrow.  The court has already considered prohibiting this department to go on strike, due to the fact that the department is already understaffed and the actions may not have consequences for the availability.  We already foresee problems due to the actions and we are studying the verdict, says Ruiz, who didnt want to say whether the government is really going to continue with a lawsuit.

After the judge decided last Saturday that the public employees are allowed to demonstrate in front of the airport, a big group marched with banners, drums, and slogans from the Simar-building to the arrival- and departure terminals of the airport.  The arriving passengers were troubled by this, because they couldnt leave directly for their hotels by taxi.  Spokesperson of AAA, Hendrik Croes, said that the tourists had to wait in the arrival hall for about 45 minutes and they were not very pleased with this. The effect of the demonstration was the same as last time, when the intersection in front of the airport was blocked.

AAA was a little disappointed with the verdict of the judge in the lawsuit that AAA, ATIA, and AHATA had instituted last Saturday.  The lawsuit was to prevent a blockade of the airport.  This time around, the demonstrators were not allowed to block the intersection at the airport, but they still hindered the traffic again, said Croes.  However, as far as he is aware of, tourists have not missed connections with a cruise ship.  AAA is not officially informed about tomorrows planned actions of customs, immigration, and fire department.  We have not received a letter, thus we know nothing officially"

Amigoe.com
Absolutely proof positive that the boycott is working! Now all we need is for the "strikers" to publicly DEMAND that the government admit WHY they have no money -- their cover-up and denial of the Natalee Holloway situation.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: bleachedblack on April 09, 2008, 09:20:16 AM
Here is just one more article attesting to the attraction Aruba has for the lawless IMO. does anyone find this strange besides me? Is it the fact that they know the laws and government are basically self serving and corrupt and therefore unlikely to object to more of the same? Sorry if this was already posted, just I read it and found myself shaking my head. This is certainly not the type of traveler to make for One Happy Island

++++++

Fugitive businesswoman may head to Aruba

Apr. 8, 2008
A Valley fugitive may be hiding out on a resort island to avoid a hefty prison sentence for fraud. Rebecca Parrett, 59, disappeared while awaiting sentencing on a $2-billion dollar scheme.

She worked for National Century Financial Enterprises, which sold health care bonds to investors including several Arizona cities. Last month, a federal jury in Ohio convicted Parrett on conspiracy, securities and wire fraud, and money laundering.

Parrett, who owned a 6,000-square-foot Carefree mansion and a home in Fountain Hills, returned to Arizona on bond to await sentencing. Deputy U.S. Marshal Matt Hershey says she disappeared before a pretrial services officer went to visit her home at the end of March. Parrett's husband claimed she had gone to Sedona two weeks prior and hasn't been seen since, according to Hershey.

Federal court records indicate a confidential informant told the FBI last week the co-defendants, including Parrett, planned to meet in Aruba after the conviction. Her four co-defendants have since been arrested. If you see Rebecca Parrett, you are urged to call U.S. Marshals

http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/2008/04/08/20080408parrettfolo04082008-CR.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: bleachedblack on April 09, 2008, 09:24:24 AM
(http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/images/photos/2008/04/08/r2gc93b.jpg)

Executive missing after fraud conviction



Authorities are searching for a Carefree woman convicted on fraud charges in connection with a health care investment scheme likened to the Enron and WorldCom scandals.

Rebecca Parrett, 58, who has residences in Carefree and the Columbus, Ohio, area, was convicted last month of nine fraud-related counts that bilked investors out of nearly $2 billion.

Parrett, who formerly held executive positions with now-defunct National Century Financial Enterprises, failed to appear for a hearing in U.S. District Court in Phoenix on March 20.

Parrett had not been wearing the electronic monitoring device required by the court after her conviction in Ohio last month, according to Andrew Shadwick, deputy U.S. marshal of the U.S. Marshals Service in Ohio.

After her trial, Parrett was allowed to leave Ohio for Arizona, Shadwick said.

Parrett is facing a maximum possible sentence of 75 years in prison and up to a $2.5 million fine, according to Fred Alverson, spokesman for the U.S. Attorneys Office in southern Ohio.

The scam, which was far-reaching nationally, caused Arizona health care organizations and investors to lose more than $100 million, according to Kathy Patrick, a Houston-based lawyer who represents companies and organizations victimized in the scam.

The scam is believed to be the biggest investment-fraud scandal among private companies in U.S. history, Patrick said.

I often say this is the biggest case youve never heard of, Patrick said.

She told the Tribune on Tuesday that she is representing 30 institutions in Arizona and about 100 local government entities that invested with National Century through the Local Government Investment Program.

Prosecutors argued that executives of the company authorized millions in unsecured loans to health care providers, then misled investors about the loans.

The government said company executives moved money between accounts to cover shortfalls, fabricated data and loaded false information on a company computer system.

Anyone who has information on Parretts whereabouts can call the U.S. Marshals office in Phoenix at (602) 382-8767 or in Ohio at (614) 469-5540.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/113326

 ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: crazybabyborg on April 09, 2008, 09:37:43 AM
Morning All! I'm happy to read that tourists in Aruba are facing some difficulty navigating the airport. Anything to discourage tourism that is even indirectly connected to Natalee is a good thing.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 09, 2008, 10:07:31 AM
(http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/images/photos/2008/04/08/r2gc93b.jpg)

Executive missing after fraud conviction



Authorities are searching for a Carefree woman convicted on fraud charges in connection with a health care investment scheme likened to the Enron and WorldCom scandals.

Rebecca Parrett, 58, who has residences in Carefree and the Columbus, Ohio, area, was convicted last month of nine fraud-related counts that bilked investors out of nearly $2 billion.

Parrett, who formerly held executive positions with now-defunct National Century Financial Enterprises, failed to appear for a hearing in U.S. District Court in Phoenix on March 20.

Parrett had not been wearing the electronic monitoring device required by the court after her conviction in Ohio last month, according to Andrew Shadwick, deputy U.S. marshal of the U.S. Marshals Service in Ohio.

After her trial, Parrett was allowed to leave Ohio for Arizona, Shadwick said.

Parrett is facing a maximum possible sentence of 75 years in prison and up to a $2.5 million fine, according to Fred Alverson, spokesman for the U.S. Attorneys Office in southern Ohio.

The scam, which was far-reaching nationally, caused Arizona health care organizations and investors to lose more than $100 million, according to Kathy Patrick, a Houston-based lawyer who represents companies and organizations victimized in the scam.

The scam is believed to be the biggest investment-fraud scandal among private companies in U.S. history, Patrick said.

I often say this is the biggest case youve never heard of, Patrick said.

She told the Tribune on Tuesday that she is representing 30 institutions in Arizona and about 100 local government entities that invested with National Century through the Local Government Investment Program.

Prosecutors argued that executives of the company authorized millions in unsecured loans to health care providers, then misled investors about the loans.

The government said company executives moved money between accounts to cover shortfalls, fabricated data and loaded false information on a company computer system.

Anyone who has information on Parretts whereabouts can call the U.S. Marshals office in Phoenix at (602) 382-8767 or in Ohio at (614) 469-5540.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/113326

 ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyShocked::

Whoa Nelly!!....wow...she looks...rode hard..n' put up wet....
She'll fit right in with the *powers that be* in Aruba...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 09, 2008, 10:09:22 AM
Morning All! I'm happy to read that tourists in Aruba are facing some difficulty navigating the airport. Anything to discourage tourism that is even indirectly connected to Natalee is a good thing.

Mornin' to You CBB...yep...just anudder day in scaradise on one crappy island....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 09, 2008, 10:42:51 AM
That is quite a different story compared to the Amigoe article back in November 2005 entitled, Radar-system not watertight.
 I can't find this artical


http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/03/28/gerold-dompig-states-in-48-hours-interview-that-radar-system-in-full-proof-really/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 09, 2008, 11:17:18 AM
New actions has started for this week

Tourists were still troubled by the public employees protest march at the airport last Saturday.  The public employees, among whom many teachers, hit the streets again this morning (picture right).

ORANJESTAD A big group of public employees, about 500 to 1000, gathered again this morning to demonstrate for salary increases.  Many teachers answered Simars call for strike.  At the time this paper went to press, we had no idea of how many students didnt have classes today due to the strike.  None of the schools did close however.

In the meantime, the government and the public servant unions didnt get one step closer to each other, after the unions made their last proposal last Friday.  We reacted with four options on the proposal: another salary system; reorganization; oriented on performance; and/or core-job analysis to compromise and be able to pay for the indexation.  We have also proposed to them to come with other ideas and/or conditions, to scrape together the money, said lawyer Anthony Ruiz, who represents the National government.  However, the unions insist that they do not want to come up with solutions; they only want the payment they are claiming.  The unions do not consider this their problem, thus the deadlock remains, says Ruiz.

Chances are that government and union will meet each other again in court.  Despite the court verdict of last week, the fire department is also going to join the actions tomorrow.  The court has already considered prohibiting this department to go on strike, due to the fact that the department is already understaffed and the actions may not have consequences for the availability.  We already foresee problems due to the actions and we are studying the verdict, says Ruiz, who didnt want to say whether the government is really going to continue with a lawsuit.

After the judge decided last Saturday that the public employees are allowed to demonstrate in front of the airport, a big group marched with banners, drums, and slogans from the Simar-building to the arrival- and departure terminals of the airport.  The arriving passengers were troubled by this, because they couldnt leave directly for their hotels by taxi.  Spokesperson of AAA, Hendrik Croes, said that the tourists had to wait in the arrival hall for about 45 minutes and they were not very pleased with this. The effect of the demonstration was the same as last time, when the intersection in front of the airport was blocked.

AAA was a little disappointed with the verdict of the judge in the lawsuit that AAA, ATIA, and AHATA had instituted last Saturday.  The lawsuit was to prevent a blockade of the airport.  This time around, the demonstrators were not allowed to block the intersection at the airport, but they still hindered the traffic again, said Croes.  However, as far as he is aware of, tourists have not missed connections with a cruise ship.  AAA is not officially informed about tomorrows planned actions of customs, immigration, and fire department.  We have not received a letter, thus we know nothing officially"

Amigoe.com
Absolutely proof positive that the boycott is working! Now all we need is for the "strikers" to publicly DEMAND that the government admit WHY they have no money -- their cover-up and denial of the Natalee Holloway situation.

The Aruban people made a choice on July 6, 2005 in regards to where they stand on the Natalee Holloway issue ...

Janet

+++++++++++++++

Some Arubans angry at Holloways mom
Calling brothers criminals elicits resentment, statement from lawyer


MSNBC staff and news service reports
updated 6:56 p.m. PT, Wed., July. 6, 2005


ORANJESTAD, Aruba - A latent but growing resentment here became evident for the first time when more than 200 people, some wrapped in Aruban flags, said they were incensed by statements made by the mother of missing American teen Natalee Holloway.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8484217/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Maggie on April 09, 2008, 11:18:59 AM
Mrpinkproductions
Whois History: 27 records have been archived since 2005-05-30. 

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/mrpinkproductionscom.jpg)
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/MrPinkProductions.jpg)
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/PaulBroughSprintsubpoena.jpg)
(http://i198.photobet.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/pinkproductions-1.jpg)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2068.0

Wasn't Paul VDS' visit to Miami around August 11th 2005?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 09, 2008, 11:39:56 AM
On July 5, 2005 ... the Aruban people negated an anquished Mother's plea in a mass demonstration supporting the Aruban Justice System.  The Aruban people made a stand and ... demanding justice for Natalee Holloway was not where it was at.

Janet

++++++++++++

Beth Holloway Twitty
CNN LIVE TODAY
July 5, 2005


BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER: It is now that I ask the world to help me. Two suspects were released yesterday who were involved in a violent crime against my daughter. These criminals are not only allowed to walk freely among the tourists and citizens of Aruba, but there are no limits where they may choose to travel.

I am asking all mothers and fathers and all nations to hear my plea. I implore you, do not allow these two suspects, the Kalpoe brothers, to enter your country until this case is solved. Do not allow these criminals to walk among your citizens. Help me by not allowing these two to get away with this crime.

It is my greatest fear today that the Kalpoe brothers will leave Aruba. I am asking the Aruban officials to notify the United States State Department in the event these suspects try to leave this island. I am asking all nations not to offer them a safe haven. I am asking this in the name of my beautiful, intelligent and outstanding daughter who I haven't seen for 36 days and for whom I will continue to search until I find her.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/05/lt.03.html


Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE

Page 157/158

No one is breathing.  Or Moving.  Reporters and camera people are crying.  The media hve been here more than a month, and they've seen firsthand what we've experienced.  They are moved by this plea.  But some of the Arubans are not.  Calling their local sons "criminals" offends them.  Having just heard the prosecuting attorney tell us at least one of the Kalpoes could be involved in whatever happened to my daughter.  I felt the term seemed appropriate.  But it led to an abrupt change in the tide of support.

<snipped:

Not long after the "criminals speech," some Arubans back off their prayer vigils for Natalee.  A few protest in the streets against the barage of negative media.  We've worn out our welcome at the Holiday Inn.  And they let us know they've had it.  The Aruban Tourism Authority (ATA), the Aruba Hotel and Tourism Association (AHATA), the Aruba Trade and Industry Association and a scattering of island officials establish the Strategic Communications Task Force to combat the negative media.  And to combat us.


John Merryweather
'Scarborough Country'
July 6, 2005


JOHN MERRYWEATHER, FORMER ARUBA DIPLOMAT:  Well, firstno, no, first of all, I'd like to answer why I was at thenot protest.  It was a gathering in support of our justice system.  It was not a protest.  It never started out as a protest either.  I would like that to be very, very clear.  When I was there, I hadn't heard what the comments of Natalee's mother either of the day.  I was asked that after I was there.  I went there.  I was not part of the organization, but I went there in support of our justice system.

<snipped?

SCARBOROUGH:  No, what did Natalee's mother say that offended so many people in Aruba?   

MERRYWEATHER:  Well, you know, ititit offended me, also.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8498049/


Beth Holloway Twitty
CNN - LAW CENTER
July 8, 2005


ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) -- The mother of Natalee Holloway apologized Friday for saying two released suspects were involved in her daughter's disappearance.

"The statements I made on July 5th were fueled by despair and frustration because of still not knowing where my daughter is," Beth Holloway Twitty said in a statement to the media. "I think everyone, everyone can sympathize with that."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/07/08/missing.aruba/index.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Peaches on April 09, 2008, 11:52:00 AM
Third Emergency landing of an American Airlines boeing 757 in less than 6 months in Aruba, the second in 3 weeks. Third Emergency landing of an American Airlines... 
Added: April 08, 2008

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HHlKqLYiZo8

*******,  I saw another video that showed the plane landing.  I would not want to land in Aruba during this type of emergency.  Many years ago I was a crew member aboard an airliner with a similar situation.  The hydraulic gear was down, but they could not confirm that it was locked in placed.  This could have resulted in a belly landing had the gear not been locked. This occurred on arrival in Denver.  Prior to our landing the runways were foamed, and as we touched down until we stopped there were 6 fire trucks on either side of us following us  parallel down the run way.  I was a passenger arriving in San  Francisco when we had a similar situation.  At no time did they wait until we had already landed until the fire trucks started moving.  Scares me to watch this video. 

Thanks for saving me the drama of watching.  After 17 years in that industry, I still hate to fly. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Silverfox on April 09, 2008, 12:06:27 PM
can someone please post that pic again that we saw earlier this week of Nat with a couple of her friends in the outfit she wore that fateful night with those long earrings on? And, could someone ask her family if those earrings were something she brought from home or if they were acquired on Aruba... Thanks...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 09, 2008, 12:12:20 PM
www.24ora.com

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/DauryArrest24ora1.jpg)

Some of the comments.  I doubt that last one is really Joran  ::MonkeyWink::
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/DauryArrest24ora2.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 09, 2008, 12:17:31 PM
Silverfox - this probably shows the earrings the best:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/NatViv.jpg)

There are more photos here:

http://www.hollowaycase.com/

From some of her prom pics, looks like she most likely had those earrings prior to going to Aruba. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 09, 2008, 12:38:36 PM
DAURY RODRIGUEZ

Mystery Man in Holloway Case Comes Forward
Man Named As Accomplice By Van der Sloot Denies Involvement in Aruba Disappearance

By ELIZABETH VARGAS & CHRIS FRANCESCANI
ABC News Law & Justice Unit
ORANJESTAD, Aruba
Feb. 4, 2008


A 21-year old Aruban came forward Monday to say that he is the mystery man that Joran van der Sloot implicated on undercover tapes, but claims that he had nothing to do with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

Daury Rodriguez said he was contacted on Saturday by a frantic biographer of Van der Sloot's who, he said, warned him that his name was about to surface in the press as being the alleged accomplice who took Holloway's body out to sea in a boat and dumped it.

"She said, 'I got your number from Joran, because he said your name is going to show up in the press, but I know it's not true. It doesn't fit the story, so you've got to do something about it. You've got to give me proof [of his whereabouts in May 2005], so I can put it in the newspaper ... here in Holland."

ABC News has obtained exclusive U.S. rights to stunning new information about the case, caught on tape, and will air a 90-minute special edition of "20/20: The Final Hours of Natalee Holloway," Monday at 9:30 p.m. ET.

Rodriguez, who grew up on Aruba and played soccer with Van der Sloot when both men were teenagers, said he was angry that his name had been dragged into the case. He said he met with detectives investigating Holloway's disappearance on Monday morning, and that he told them he was living in Rotterdam, Holland in May 2005, when Holloway went missing.

Rodriguez retained an Aruban lawyer when he realized he was implicated in the case, and said he asked the biographer to put him in touch with Van der Sloot, but she refused.

Van der Sloot apparently logged on to an online instant messaging service over the weekend, and Rodriguez said he confronted him and demanded to know why he'd been named as an accomplice. "So, I was online, and he comes online, and I was like, 'Yo, what's wrong with you, man. Why did you do that?' And he's like, 'I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I didn't know what I was talking about. I'm so sorry.' And I said, you know, 'What the f---? Sorry? Don't say that! That's [b.s.]. You're putting me in trouble for nothing.'"

Rodriguez said he played soccer with Van der Sloot when the pair were about 16 years old, and that, while he knew him as an acquaintance, he would never call him a friend.

He said they played poker together at a local casino late last year after Van der Sloot was released from his second arrest.

Rodriguez's attorney Chris Lejuez said his client was born in Colombia, but moved to Aruba as a child when his mother married an Aruban man. Lejuez said Rodriguez moved to Rotterdam to attend trade school in 2004, and stayed on through June or July of 2007, working there. Rodriguez returned to Aruba in January and December of 2005 for vacation, but was not on the island for months before or after Holloway's disappearance.

He told ABC News he never owned a boat. "I never had one, and I don't have one,'' he said.

Asked how he could prove his whereabouts during 2005, Rodriguez said that ATMs he had used in Rotterdam could show he was there in May 2005.

Lejuez said he provided investigators with the name of the trade school Rodriguez had attended and the company he later worked for in Rotterdam.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=2
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=3



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 09, 2008, 12:49:07 PM
Why or who was Daury R. buyng/selling/running drugs for anyway?  How stupid to go to the USA unless...nah!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 09, 2008, 12:53:20 PM
I wonder if Daury Rodriguez is any relation to Sasha Rodriguez ( the one I believe is Freddy and Ernesto's 1/2 sister)   ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: MumInOhio on April 09, 2008, 12:55:45 PM
Why or who was Daury R. buyng/selling/running drugs for anyway?  How stupid to go to the USA unless...nah!


Unless...he is Mr X....LOL...and with a name like Rodriguez!!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: MumInOhio on April 09, 2008, 12:58:08 PM
I wonder if Daury Rodriguez is any relation to Sasha Rodriguez ( the one I believe is Freddy and Ernesto's 1/2 sister)   ::MonkeyShocked::


I wouldn't be shocked!...LOL

 ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 09, 2008, 01:16:30 PM
I wonder if Daury Rodriguez is any relation to Sasha Rodriguez ( the one I believe is Freddy and Ernesto's 1/2 sister)   ::MonkeyShocked::


I wouldn't be shocked!...LOL

 ::MonkeyDance::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Beth Twitty
'Rita Cosby
April 6, 2006


TWITTY:  ... So you know, theyre all very connected on that island. Its hard to find someone whos not a relative or a cousin.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12205086/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 09, 2008, 01:23:41 PM
I wonder if Daury Rodriguez is any relation to Sasha Rodriguez ( the one I believe is Freddy and Ernesto's 1/2 sister)   ::MonkeyShocked::

I am wondering if he is related to any Croes? 


FREDDY NEEDS TO TELL THE TRUTH!   ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 09, 2008, 01:25:27 PM
Why or who was Daury R. buyng/selling/running drugs for anyway?  How stupid to go to the USA unless...nah!


Unless...he is Mr X....LOL...and with a name like Rodriguez!!!!

I think Mr. X has money...lots of money.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: MumInOhio on April 09, 2008, 01:26:42 PM
I wonder if Daury Rodriguez is any relation to Sasha Rodriguez ( the one I believe is Freddy and Ernesto's 1/2 sister)   ::MonkeyShocked::


I wouldn't be shocked!...LOL

 ::MonkeyDance::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Beth Twitty
'Rita Cosby
April 6, 2006


TWITTY:  ... So you know, theyre all very connected on that island. Its hard to find someone whos not a relative or a cousin.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12205086/


Freddy knows! ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 09, 2008, 01:29:24 PM
I wonder if Daury Rodriguez is any relation to Sasha Rodriguez ( the one I believe is Freddy and Ernesto's 1/2 sister)   ::MonkeyShocked::


I wouldn't be shocked!...LOL

 ::MonkeyDance::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Beth Twitty
'Rita Cosby
April 6, 2006


TWITTY:  ... So you know, theyre all very connected on that island. Its hard to find someone whos not a relative or a cousin.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12205086/


Freddy knows! ::MonkeyWink::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 09, 2008, 01:34:57 PM
www.24ora.com

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/DauryArrest24ora1.jpg)

Some of the comments.  I doubt that last one is really Joran  ::MonkeyWink::
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/DauryArrest24ora2.jpg)

Daury pic I've had on file:   


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2312/2240961639_9a7cf563be_m.jpg


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 09, 2008, 01:43:52 PM
Why or who was Daury R. buyng/selling/running drugs for anyway?  How stupid to go to the USA unless...nah!

Oh come on Lalas'...beans...spill...LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 09, 2008, 01:45:07 PM
Daury's Hi5

http://www.hi5.com/friend/3664670--Daury--Profile-html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 09, 2008, 01:46:10 PM
Destiny - that's Steve Croes  ::MonkeyWink::

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2312/2240961639_9a7cf563be_m.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 09, 2008, 01:47:58 PM

<snipped>

I do not believe the search for Natalee is over.  I believe the mapping of targets has been completed.  What remains is to further investigate these items of interest.  The data for the targets belongs to LS.

<snipped>


The data for the targets may belong to LS but ... what is the point if the search is being conducted with the understanding  that any evidence that may be accumulated is to be to turned over to Aruba.

WhiskeyGirl ... there has to be a chain of custody.  Logic dictates that the Persistance should document, photograph and notorize the find ... the FBI should document, photograph and notorize the find ... prior to releasing it to the Arubans.  Justice for Natalee Holloway demands it.

Think about all the controversy encompassing the "blood" in Deepak's vehicle.  The Aruban Prime Minister said it was blood yet ... the samples of the fabric tested by the FBI lab turned out to be cleaning fluid.

IMO

Janet

+++++++++

Oceanexploration

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM


We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.  The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.


If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed:)

I know there should be a chain of custody, but I don't think a criminal case will come of any evidence that is found.  I would love to be wrong.  I'm not sure the Persistence could document the evidence without someone complaining that it was planted or tampered with.  This would mean that even with a body, there would be no case.  imho

I did not see a spirit of cooperation between Aruba and the Persistence with regard to the trap that was investigated.  I was greatly disappointed.  mo

I did see NBC (which I associate with Cohen) have a special on just this one item, which planted doubts in the minds of many about the continuing search efforts...(in my cynical mind, I see this as the 'fix'.)  jmho

I don't know how the competing needs could be balanced.

It astounds me that no one seems to know what happens to the bones that are found on and around the waters of Aruba.  The shoulder bone with tissue really bothers me.  I sometimes think that bone may have been the only thing left of Natalee.  What happened to it?  Why didn't the search at the time focus on that are?  The water?

I was hoping they could just pick up the remains and send them for analysis, bypassing Aruba.  However, in the event they found human remains, would the Persistence and/or crew be charged with improper body disposal or failure to report a body, or failing to report something?

If not Natalee, who was in that trap?  (or, How many different people might be in those targets?)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: MumInOhio on April 09, 2008, 01:48:20 PM
LOL...I thought I would pop back in to see if you had tarred and feathered me yet,Tamikosmom!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 09, 2008, 01:53:30 PM
Destiny - that's Steve Croes  ::MonkeyWink::

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2312/2240961639_9a7cf563be_m.jpg)

Duh........slaps own forehead...found it surfing sometime back...it was labeled Daury....maybe it's one of S. Croes ' nicks...wouldn't tthat be sumptin'...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 09, 2008, 02:09:07 PM
LOL...I thought I would pop back in to see if you had tarred and feathered me yet,Tamikosmom!

No way.  Freddy would know ... Klaas would interrogate him ... Freddy would plead for mercy and reveal the truth and ... then Klaas would ban me from the Monkey cage.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 09, 2008, 02:15:37 PM
LOL...I thought I would pop back in to see if you had tarred and feathered me yet,Tamikosmom!

No way.  Freddy would know ... Klaas would interrogate him ... Freddy would plead for mercy and reveal the truth and ... then Klaas would ban me from the Monkey cage.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Janet

NEVER!  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: jackb on April 09, 2008, 02:16:55 PM
Mrpinkproductions
Whois History: 27 records have been archived since 2005-05-30. 

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/mrpinkproductionscom.jpg)
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/MrPinkProductions.jpg)
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/PaulBroughSprintsubpoena.jpg)
(http://i198.photobet.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/pinkproductions-1.jpg)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2068.0

Wasn't Paul VDS' visit to Miami around August 11th 2005?
 

Mr Pink loks like a woman in pimp clothes.  Could he be?  j/b


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: jackb on April 09, 2008, 02:22:47 PM
Why or who was Daury R. buyng/selling/running drugs for anyway?  How stupid to go to the USA unless...nah!

Oh come on Lalas'...beans...spill...LOL
Daury's time to:  "Lets Make a Deal." 




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 09, 2008, 02:42:22 PM
Klaas
I can't translate pap..so what is the low down on Daury?  Just exactly what are the charges he's being held on?  Do we know?  Did I miss this detail?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 09, 2008, 02:44:05 PM
Klaas
I can't translate pap..so what is the low down on Daury?  Just exactly what are the charges he's being held on?  Do we know?  Did I miss this detail?

I think it's saying what we first heard yesterday, just that he has been detained in the US for the last month on drug charges:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372161#msg372161


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Jo-An on April 09, 2008, 02:47:54 PM
Trying to catch up!
I haven't been online for a couple of weeks because I was in a Shakespeare-production and had to perform almost every night.
But that's all over now, so time to relax and catch up on my reading here!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 09, 2008, 02:51:49 PM
Trying to catch up!
I haven't been online for a couple of weeks because I was in a Shakespeare-production and had to perform almost every night.
But that's all over now, so time to relax and catch up on my reading here!


Hi Jo-An,

It's actually pretty slow right now so you shouldn't have too much trouble catching up  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: MumInOhio on April 09, 2008, 02:56:43 PM
Klaas
I can't translate pap..so what is the low down on Daury?  Just exactly what are the charges he's being held on?  Do we know?  Did I miss this detail?

I think it's saying what we first heard yesterday, just that he has been detained in the US for the last month on drug charges:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372161#msg372161


About the same length of time that Joran has been at his vacation home, is it close?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 09, 2008, 02:59:15 PM
Klaas
I can't translate pap..so what is the low down on Daury?  Just exactly what are the charges he's being held on?  Do we know?  Did I miss this detail?

I think it's saying what we first heard yesterday, just that he has been detained in the US for the last month on drug charges:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372161#msg372161


About the same length of time that Joran has been at his vacation home, is it close?

Ahhhhh, good point  ::MonkeyWink::  Interresting  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: casa on April 09, 2008, 03:02:28 PM
As I posted about a week ago there was a radio station in town who was giving away a free trip to Aruba.  I received a reply.  After reading the reply I think maybe the program was a syndicated program perhaps.  But anyway.  Here is what I sent to the General Manager of the station:

I rarely listen to the radio but happened to turn it on this afternoon to your station 101.5.  As I was listening I heard something that disturbed me. Your station is giving away a trip to Aruba.  As someone in the radio business I feel sure you have heard of Natalee Hollowy, the 18 year old who disappeared 3 years ago in Aruba while on a senior trip.  The government and law enforcement of that country has made a mess out of the investigation even to the point of it being obvious there was a massive cover up.  The family has been left not knowing where their daughter is while the three boys/men who were the last to be with her are roaming free even after one confessed to being with her when she had some sort of seizure and throwing her in the ocean not even sure that she was dead! I would never get done with this email if I went into all that has happened to this family.  My point is that her aunt,uncle and cousins live in El Dorado.  Both the aunt and uncle are business people here.  They have been devastated by the lose of this beautiful, intelligent girl with a most promising future.  I found it insulting that your station in their hometown would offer a trip to that island.  I urge you to do some research on the awful things this family has endured and some of the misinformation and ugliness surrounding this.  Two places with much information are blogs.  scaredmonkeys.net and blogsfornatalee.com.  Also both the father and the mother have written a book about their experiences in Aruba searching desperately for their daughter.  I can give you more information on these books also.
 
Thank you for taking the time to read my email and please take the time to check to see why myself and thousands of others object to the fact that Aruba has allowed the disappearance and probable death of this young lady go unpunished.
 
Respectfully yours,


This is his reply:

Thank you so much for the email and thank you for listening. The Natalee Holloway investigation is certainly one of the saddest stories I have ever witnessed. Also, thank you for bringing to light the continued pain that the family undergoes while this travesty of justice continues. The trip you are speaking of is not being given away by our station... As a matter of fact, we have ZERO control over that particular giveaway. However, I will forward your concerns to the people who are in charge of said giveaway. Again, I can not thank you enough for your email and my prayer is that God will bring peace to the family through this trying time.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: MumInOhio on April 09, 2008, 03:04:22 PM
Klaas
I can't translate pap..so what is the low down on Daury?  Just exactly what are the charges he's being held on?  Do we know?  Did I miss this detail?

I think it's saying what we first heard yesterday, just that he has been detained in the US for the last month on drug charges:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372161#msg372161


About the same length of time that Joran has been at his vacation home, is it close?

Ahhhhh, good point  ::MonkeyWink::  Interresting  ::MonkeyCool::

There is hope! ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 09, 2008, 03:14:00 PM
Hi everyone...

I'm having one of those days where I THINK too much and then get all pissed off. Why do I do this to myself? LOL
See, I just think getting these animals in jail on any charge is a step forward. Worry about the murder charge later. Move on the rape - sexual assault while going in and out of consciousness. Get the body disposal and the six months that entails. That's moving the case forward. In my mind, it's idiotic to worry it's an all or nothing situation. Only an idiot would think that.

YOU GET WHAT YOU CAN GET!!! make sense? When it's all said and done, the Aruban Prosecutors office will come up with some lame ass excuse why they couldn't do a dang thing. And there will be some that actually buy that.

Using the twisted pretzel logic of Hans Mos you need a video tape of the assault / murder in order to get him to do his gosh darn job. DO YOUR FREAKING JOB MOS! If this was the daughter of Oduber Joran would be dead and gone. Trust me on that one.

Rant possibly over!!! LOL ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 09, 2008, 03:14:52 PM
Thank you Casa.

Reality (Is he still around?) sent the following letter to Curves when they withdrew a free Aruban vacation as a result of complaints.

Janet

+++++++

Quote from: Reality on June 02, 2006, 06:54:38 AM

Dear Curves,

I am truly saddened that you have allowed your fine organization to be swayed to a very small minority of hate mongers & xenophobes who for the most part have never even set foot in Aruba let alone even heard of Aruba prior to May 31st, 2005.

Youre pulling of the Aruba sweepstakes speaks volumes to a company being swayed by lies & fabrications.

As an American citizen living in Aruba for many years now let me give you a perspective that none of the protest emails can even come close to.

Aruba is by far the safest island destination in the Caribbean.
 
Arubas judicial system is based on Dutch law, world renowned as a fair and balanced system.

Arubas people are highly educated individuals where most here speak at least 3 to 5 languages.

Aruba has had ONE missing person in the last year, and that person may not even be a victim of a crime.

You have done your valued customers a disservice by pulling your Aruba sweepstakes by depriving them the opportunity to truly experience what an island paradise really is.

If you would like more information about the real Aruba please email at the following and I will be more than happy to set the record straight with facts not the fiction you have based your decision on to pull your Aruba Sweepstakes.

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=2854.150


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 09, 2008, 03:18:09 PM
Klaas
I can't translate pap..so what is the low down on Daury?  Just exactly what are the charges he's being held on?  Do we know?  Did I miss this detail?

I think it's saying what we first heard yesterday, just that he has been detained in the US for the last month on drug charges:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372161#msg372161


About the same length of time that Joran has been at his vacation home, is it close?

Ahhhhh, good point  ::MonkeyWink::  Interresting  ::MonkeyCool::

And...how long since the photos of the crab trap, hit the internet....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 09, 2008, 03:19:25 PM
Hi everyone...

I'm having one of those days where I THINK too much and then get all pissed off. Why do I do this to myself? LOL
See, I just think getting these animals in jail on any charge is a step forward. Worry about the murder charge later. Move on the rape - sexual assault while going in and out of consciousness. Get the body disposal and the six months that entails. That's moving the case forward. In my mind, it's idiotic to worry it's an all or nothing situation. Only an idiot would think that.

YOU GET WHAT YOU CAN GET!!! make sense? When it's all said and done, the Aruban Prosecutors office will come up with some lame ass excuse why they couldn't do a dang thing. And there will be some that actually buy that.

Using the twisted pretzel logic of Hans Mos you need a video tape of the assault / murder in order to get him to do his gosh darn job. DO YOUR FREAKING JOB MOS! If this was the daughter of Oduber Joran would be dead and gone. Trust me on that one.

Rant possibly over!!! LOL ::MonkeyHaHa::

Rob I agree 100%.  Also ... if Natalee had been one of  President Bush's daughters ... justice would have prevailed in a heartbeat.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: MumInOhio on April 09, 2008, 03:20:54 PM
Klaas
I can't translate pap..so what is the low down on Daury?  Just exactly what are the charges he's being held on?  Do we know?  Did I miss this detail?

I think it's saying what we first heard yesterday, just that he has been detained in the US for the last month on drug charges:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372161#msg372161


About the same length of time that Joran has been at his vacation home, is it close?

Ahhhhh, good point  ::MonkeyWink::  Interresting  ::MonkeyCool::

And...how long since the photos of the crab trap, hit the internet....


And we think alike!!!...When did the Persistence leave?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 09, 2008, 03:21:10 PM
Bleachedblack has scored the winner for today in the Shango forum...I so hope she posts it over here...just seeing the cow in black will make you all feel much better.


KUDOS!!!  TO BB!!!! ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 09, 2008, 03:23:12 PM
Hi everyone...

I'm having one of those days where I THINK too much and then get all pissed off. Why do I do this to myself? LOL
See, I just think getting these animals in jail on any charge is a step forward. Worry about the murder charge later. Move on the rape - sexual assault while going in and out of consciousness. Get the body disposal and the six months that entails. That's moving the case forward. In my mind, it's idiotic to worry it's an all or nothing situation. Only an idiot would think that.

YOU GET WHAT YOU CAN GET!!! make sense? When it's all said and done, the Aruban Prosecutors office will come up with some lame ass excuse why they couldn't do a dang thing. And there will be some that actually buy that.

Using the twisted pretzel logic of Hans Mos you need a video tape of the assault / murder in order to get him to do his gosh darn job. DO YOUR FREAKING JOB MOS! If this was the daughter of Oduber Joran would be dead and gone. Trust me on that one.

Rant possibly over!!! LOL ::MonkeyHaHa::

Rob I agree 100%.  Also ... if Natalee had been one of  President Bush's daughters ... justice would have prevailed in a heartbeat.

Janet

what kind of barbarian says that he's free even if they find his semen in her? that's SICK...!!! sick sick sick and no one is doing anything about this...and who in their right mind defends that animal? who, why? huh!!!!

today is one of those days I could strangle him with my bare hands.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: bleachedblack on April 09, 2008, 03:23:39 PM
We had been talking about tennis/aruba and I happened to watch this youtube video. Thought you might like to catch a glimpse of PVDS and Anita .......life goes on ......
at 36 seconds into the video as camera pans left to right you can see paulus in his whites wiping his glasses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: casa on April 09, 2008, 03:24:38 PM
Thank you Tamkios for posting that letter.  I knew that Curves had offered a trip but had forgotten about it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: MumInOhio on April 09, 2008, 03:28:57 PM
Thank you Tamkios for posting that letter.  I knew that Curves had offered a trip but had forgotten about it.

Thank You Casa for sharing your email and their reply.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 09, 2008, 03:30:32 PM
We had been talking about tennis/aruba and I happened to watch this youtube video. Thought you might like to catch a glimpse of PVDS and Anita .......life goes on ......
at 36 seconds into the video as camera pans left to right you can see paulus in his whites wiping his glasses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8

You may have just reached Barfdoll status with that catch! 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 09, 2008, 03:31:22 PM
We had been talking about tennis/aruba and I happened to watch this youtube video. Thought you might like to catch a glimpse of PVDS and Anita .......life goes on ......
at 36 seconds into the video as camera pans left to right you can see paulus in his whites wiping his glasses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/PVDSANDANITA4.jpg)

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/PVDSANDANITA5.jpg)

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/PVDSANDANITA6.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 09, 2008, 03:34:07 PM
That's either them or two people with the worst genetic luck in the universe.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 09, 2008, 03:37:15 PM
That's either them or two people with the worst genetic luck in the universe.

Oh Rob!  You missed the catch of Anita in the swimsuit...go back and get that one too...please...cow in black...oops..sorry I didn't say that did I? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 09, 2008, 03:37:46 PM
That's either them or two people with the worst genetic luck in the universe.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 09, 2008, 03:38:27 PM
GAKKK!

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/waterbuffalohooker2.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 09, 2008, 03:38:36 PM
We had been talking about tennis/aruba and I happened to watch this youtube video. Thought you might like to catch a glimpse of PVDS and Anita .......life goes on ......
at 36 seconds into the video as camera pans left to right you can see paulus in his whites wiping his glasses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/PVDSANDANITA4.jpg)

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/PVDSANDANITA5.jpg)

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/PVDSANDANITA6.jpg)

Deos that say   JVS on his shirt pocket?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 09, 2008, 03:39:15 PM
That's either them or two people with the worst genetic luck in the universe.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Hit my quote button and look how I have the last image marked!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 09, 2008, 03:40:09 PM

Deos that say   JVS on his shirt pocket?

Hi Dea, probably says VCB  ha ha ha!!! ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 09, 2008, 03:40:23 PM
GAKKK!

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/waterbuffalohooker2.jpg)

I know....*udderly* horrible...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: bleachedblack on April 09, 2008, 03:41:48 PM
We had been talking about tennis/aruba and I happened to watch this youtube video. Thought you might like to catch a glimpse of PVDS and Anita .......life goes on ......
at 36 seconds into the video as camera pans left to right you can see paulus in his whites wiping his glasses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8

You may have just reached Barfdoll status with that catch! 

Why thanks Lalas  ::MonkeyLaugh::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 09, 2008, 03:42:25 PM
That's either them or two people with the worst genetic luck in the universe.

Oh Rob!  You missed the catch of Anita in the swimsuit...go back and get that one too...please...cow in black...oops..sorry I didn't say that did I? 

lord have mercy...

my eyez are broken and I might now be gay!!! ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: bleachedblack on April 09, 2008, 03:43:57 PM
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/waterbuffalohooker2.jpg)

I'd expect to see a tatoo of an anchor on that arm.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 09, 2008, 03:45:33 PM
Paulus with his Chewbacca arms ain't no catch either... but he actually had sex with her THREE TIMES!! Now, ok, maybe once if he was drunk... but TWICE MORE? what the heck was he thinkin?????



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 09, 2008, 03:46:56 PM
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/waterbuffalohooker2.jpg)

I'd expect to see a tatoo of an anchor on that arm.


Oh Klaas....puleeeeeezzzzze.....just one itty bitty tattoo....huh....?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 09, 2008, 03:47:56 PM
Paulus with his Chewbacca arms ain't no catch either... but he actually had sex with her THREE TIMES!! Now, ok, maybe once if he was drunk... but TWICE MORE? what the heck was he thinkin?????



Not about her....that's for sure...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 09, 2008, 03:48:51 PM
Paulus with his Chewbacca arms ain't no catch either... but he actually had sex with her THREE TIMES!! Now, ok, maybe once if he was drunk... but TWICE MORE? what the heck was he thinkin?????



Not about her....that's for sure...

ETA:  he was thinking about Lorenzos' Mom....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 09, 2008, 03:49:54 PM
We had been talking about tennis/aruba and I happened to watch this youtube video. Thought you might like to catch a glimpse of PVDS and Anita .......life goes on ......
at 36 seconds into the video as camera pans left to right you can see paulus in his whites wiping his glasses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8

I could recognize that hairline anywhere.  Any casnio images?

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: bleachedblack on April 09, 2008, 03:52:33 PM
I wrote in the Shango thread, that at 6:27 into the clip the commentator says, "Holloway in the house, the man from Holloway country". My ears must be playing tricks.....is joran there? and  are these people  joking with Joran?   ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 09, 2008, 03:53:42 PM
We had been talking about tennis/aruba and I happened to watch this youtube video. Thought you might like to catch a glimpse of PVDS and Anita .......life goes on ......
at 36 seconds into the video as camera pans left to right you can see paulus in his whites wiping his glasses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8

I could recognize that hairline anywhere.  Any casnio images?

Janet

Right!  Just like the hairline images at the gate match that unknown male sitting next to Natalee...monkeys are smart.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 09, 2008, 03:56:57 PM
I wrote in the Shango thread, that at 6:27 into the clip the commentator says, "Holloway in the house, the man from Holloway country". My ears must be playing tricks.....is joran there? and  are these people  joking with Joran?   ::MonkeyNoNo::

 ::MonkeyShocked::

I heard it!!!  Despicable!!!

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 09, 2008, 03:57:55 PM
I wrote in the Shango thread, that at 6:27 into the clip the commentator says, "Holloway in the house, the man from Holloway country". My ears must be playing tricks.....is joran there? and  are these people  joking with Joran?   ::MonkeyNoNo::

BB...that would tie in with my question regarding if it says...JVS...on Paulus' shirt...was wondering if Joran was in competition...and daddy is supporting him....ya know...a family thang...like killing...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 09, 2008, 04:01:13 PM
We had been talking about tennis/aruba and I happened to watch this youtube video. Thought you might like to catch a glimpse of PVDS and Anita .......life goes on ......
at 36 seconds into the video as camera pans left to right you can see paulus in his whites wiping his glasses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8

I could recognize that hairline anywhere.  Any casnio images?

Janet

Jossy Mansur
Dana Pretzer Show
December 14, 2006


DANA: When you look at this case, a question keeps coming up. I am looking at the picture on my PC. It is the alleged picture of a person in the casino with Natalee that looks a lot like Paul. Has there been any update on this issue?

JOSSY: There have not been any change of opinion. People, including people in the casino say that is Paul.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: bleachedblack on April 09, 2008, 04:04:12 PM
I wrote in the Shango thread, that at 6:27 into the clip the commentator says, "Holloway in the house, the man from Holloway country". My ears must be playing tricks.....is joran there? and  are these people  joking with Joran?   ::MonkeyNoNo::

BB...that would tie in with my question regarding if it says...JVS...on Paulus' shirt...was wondering if Joran was in competition...and daddy is supporting him....ya know...a family thang...like killing...

My thoughts too. Parents are probably there to support the "sporter".  :smt078


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 09, 2008, 04:09:18 PM
I wrote in the Shango thread, that at 6:27 into the clip the commentator says, "Holloway in the house, the man from Holloway country". My ears must be playing tricks.....is joran there? and  are these people  joking with Joran?   ::MonkeyNoNo::

BB...that would tie in with my question regarding if it says...JVS...on Paulus' shirt...was wondering if Joran was in competition...and daddy is supporting him....ya know...a family thang...like killing...


Aren't they on the same beach Joran claims he left Natalee dead and asked Paulus...I mean Daury to take care of her?  I think so...this tennis thing is at Moombas...and people think they give a rat's patootie about anything...they don't care....they know they are free and clear.  No body...no case...NO WORRIES!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 09, 2008, 04:11:28 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8\

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyDance::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ArubaBeachTennisSloots.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 09, 2008, 04:11:47 PM
I wrote in the Shango thread, that at 6:27 into the clip the commentator says, "Holloway in the house, the man from Holloway country". My ears must be playing tricks.....is joran there? and  are these people  joking with Joran?   ::MonkeyNoNo::

BB...that would tie in with my question regarding if it says...JVS...on Paulus' shirt...was wondering if Joran was in competition...and daddy is supporting him....ya know...a family thang...like killing...


Aren't they on the same beach Joran claims he left Natalee dead and asked Paulus...I mean Daury to take care of her?  I think so...this tennis thing is at Moombas...and people think they give a rat's patootie about anything...they don't care....they know they are free and clear.  No body...no case...NO WORRIES!

Exactly Lala's!....and, that means to me....*they've done it before*...!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 09, 2008, 04:12:42 PM
I wrote in the Shango thread, that at 6:27 into the clip the commentator says, "Holloway in the house, the man from Holloway country". My ears must be playing tricks.....is joran there? and  are these people  joking with Joran?   ::MonkeyNoNo::

BB...that would tie in with my question regarding if it says...JVS...on Paulus' shirt...was wondering if Joran was in competition...and daddy is supporting him....ya know...a family thang...like killing...

My thoughts too. Parents are probably there to support the "sporter".  :smt078

Most likely Valentijn.  Also possible that Paulus was playing.  I doubt Anita plays.  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 09, 2008, 04:14:00 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8\

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyDance::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ArubaBeachTennisSloots.gif)

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: bleachedblack on April 09, 2008, 04:17:21 PM
Actually at about 6:30 into the video when the commentator says "Holloway in the house.....the man from Holloway country" the player in the far right hand court with the long shorts maybe black/white/gray pattern does resemble joran.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 09, 2008, 04:24:33 PM
I wrote in the Shango thread, that at 6:27 into the clip the commentator says, "Holloway in the house, the man from Holloway country". My ears must be playing tricks.....is joran there? and  are these people  joking with Joran?   ::MonkeyNoNo::

BB...that would tie in with my question regarding if it says...JVS...on Paulus' shirt...was wondering if Joran was in competition...and daddy is supporting him....ya know...a family thang...like killing...


Aren't they on the same beach Joran claims he left Natalee dead and asked Paulus...I mean Daury to take care of her?  I think so...this tennis thing is at Moombas...and people think they give a rat's patootie about anything...they don't care....they know they are free and clear.  No body...no case...NO WORRIES!

I can only assume that the VDS' hearts have been hardened by their own selfishness.  In other words ... no conscience ... no empathy regarding the heartbreak of others.

Janet

++++++++++

Hebrews 3:12-14

See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God.  But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: bleachedblack on April 09, 2008, 04:29:04 PM
Ranking Aruba March 2008
Youth advanced:
1 Lukas Steenbakker/David Dias          75 pts
2 Ronald Speyer    30 pts
3 Jean -/Jeantil Saladin    20 pts
     
Fun Kids:    
1 Jelle Groot Antink/Juancito van Leeuwen    30 pts
2 David    25 pts
2 Aaron Speyer/Juanjo    25 pts
3 Bastiaan vd Sloot/Bram vd Scheer    15 pts
3 Emile    15 pts
     
Superkids:    
1 Anne Friederichy/Dominique Huige    25 pts
1 Myron Speyer/Lukas vd Berg    25 pts
2 Mette/Alex    15 pts
2 Nina/Jasper vd Berg    15 pts
3 Simone/Nathan Legger    10 pts
     
Fun Ladies:    
1 Amanda/Ludi vd Vaart     50 pts
2 Xiomara/Maritza    30 pts
3 Esther Huige/Astrid Swaen    25 pts
     
Fun Men:    
1 Paul -/Valentijn v/d Sloot    45 pts

2 Theo de Kool    35 pts
3 Dave Lyon    30 pts
     
Fun mix:    
1 Joe -/Barbara Canton    25 pts.
1 Frido Kraag/Freya Kraag    25 pts
1 Willem / Cora Bant    25 pts
2 Paul/Melody    15 pts
2 Jhon Douglas/Koosje Ketball    15 pts
2 Rutger Ros/ Eline la Croix    15 pts

http://www.arubabeachtennis.com/BeachTennisAruba/Rankingaruba.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 09, 2008, 04:31:36 PM
Actually at about 6:30 into the video when the commentator says "Holloway in the house.....the man from Holloway country" the player in the far right hand court with the long shorts maybe black/white/gray pattern does resemble joran.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8

You're right, it might be Joran.  This was uploaded November 2007 so it could have been him.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 09, 2008, 04:46:44 PM
Actually at about 6:30 into the video when the commentator says "Holloway in the house.....the man from Holloway country" the player in the far right hand court with the long shorts maybe black/white/gray pattern does resemble joran.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8

You're right, it might be Joran.  This was uploaded November 2007 so it could have been him.

I cannot find a list of players who participated in the November, 2007 tournament.

Janet

++++++++++++++++

http://www.arubabeachtennis.com/BeachTennisAruba/Internationalevents.html

Beach Tennis Event November 2007, was won by Peter Amerika and Robert Boesschoten. It was such a great success, that the Aruba Beach Tennis Foundation is planning another event in the summer of 2008. It will be held on july 19th at Mango's Beachbar @ Zandvoort


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on April 09, 2008, 05:02:19 PM
Ranking Aruba March 2008
Youth advanced:
1 Lukas Steenbakker/David Dias          75 pts
2 Ronald Speyer    30 pts
3 Jean -/Jeantil Saladin    20 pts
     
Fun Kids:    
1 Jelle Groot Antink/Juancito van Leeuwen    30 pts
2 David    25 pts
2 Aaron Speyer/Juanjo    25 pts
3 Bastiaan vd Sloot/Bram vd Scheer    15 pts
3 Emile    15 pts
     
Superkids:    
1 Anne Friederichy/Dominique Huige    25 pts
1 Myron Speyer/Lukas vd Berg    25 pts
2 Mette/Alex    15 pts
2 Nina/Jasper vd Berg    15 pts
3 Simone/Nathan Legger    10 pts
     
Fun Ladies:    
1 Amanda/Ludi vd Vaart     50 pts
2 Xiomara/Maritza    30 pts
3 Esther Huige/Astrid Swaen    25 pts
     
Fun Men:    
1 Paul -/Valentijn v/d Sloot    45 pts

2 Theo de Kool    35 pts
3 Dave Lyon    30 pts
     
Fun mix:    
1 Joe -/Barbara Canton    25 pts.
1 Frido Kraag/Freya Kraag    25 pts
1 Willem / Cora Bant    25 pts
2 Paul/Melody    15 pts
2 Jhon Douglas/Koosje Ketball    15 pts
2 Rutger Ros/ Eline la Croix    15 pts

http://www.arubabeachtennis.com/BeachTennisAruba/Rankingaruba.html

Wondering if Bastiaan vd Sloot is Sebastian????


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 09, 2008, 05:25:44 PM
I wrote in the Shango thread, that at 6:27 into the clip the commentator says, "Holloway in the house, the man from Holloway country". My ears must be playing tricks.....is joran there? and  are these people  joking with Joran?   ::MonkeyNoNo::

 ::MonkeyShocked::

I heard it!!!  Despicable!!!

Janet

Actually, the remark is beyond despicable...I just can't find any word that is that low down....if this is really what is said and it was when Joran came up...then no wonder those in Aruba have no regard for life.  Just proves to me what we have known all along.  I wonder if Nancy Grace or some other news person would be interested in hearing that?  They just continue to slap Beth in the face...why is my blood pressure going up?  I would love to be there with a "Stand with the Girl" T-shirt on.  I am angry now...really angry over that comment.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 09, 2008, 05:27:52 PM
Ranking Aruba March 2008
Youth advanced:
1 Lukas Steenbakker/David Dias          75 pts
2 Ronald Speyer    30 pts
3 Jean -/Jeantil Saladin    20 pts
     
Fun Kids:    
1 Jelle Groot Antink/Juancito van Leeuwen    30 pts
2 David    25 pts
2 Aaron Speyer/Juanjo    25 pts
3 Bastiaan vd Sloot/Bram vd Scheer    15 pts
3 Emile    15 pts
     
Superkids:    
1 Anne Friederichy/Dominique Huige    25 pts
1 Myron Speyer/Lukas vd Berg    25 pts
2 Mette/Alex    15 pts
2 Nina/Jasper vd Berg    15 pts
3 Simone/Nathan Legger    10 pts
     
Fun Ladies:    
1 Amanda/Ludi vd Vaart     50 pts
2 Xiomara/Maritza    30 pts
3 Esther Huige/Astrid Swaen    25 pts
     
Fun Men:    
1 Paul -/Valentijn v/d Sloot    45 pts

2 Theo de Kool    35 pts
3 Dave Lyon    30 pts
     
Fun mix:    
1 Joe -/Barbara Canton    25 pts.
1 Frido Kraag/Freya Kraag    25 pts
1 Willem / Cora Bant    25 pts
2 Paul/Melody    15 pts
2 Jhon Douglas/Koosje Ketball    15 pts
2 Rutger Ros/ Eline la Croix    15 pts

http://www.arubabeachtennis.com/BeachTennisAruba/Rankingaruba.html

Wondering if Bastiaan vd Sloot is Sebastian????

I am thinking yes...doesn't seem to be too many Sloots on Aruba...compare that with all the Croes there. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 09, 2008, 05:29:32 PM
Ranking Aruba March 2008
Youth advanced:
1 Lukas Steenbakker/David Dias          75 pts
2 Ronald Speyer    30 pts
3 Jean -/Jeantil Saladin    20 pts
     
Fun Kids:    
1 Jelle Groot Antink/Juancito van Leeuwen    30 pts
2 David    25 pts
2 Aaron Speyer/Juanjo    25 pts
3 Bastiaan vd Sloot/Bram vd Scheer    15 pts
3 Emile    15 pts
     
Superkids:    
1 Anne Friederichy/Dominique Huige    25 pts
1 Myron Speyer/Lukas vd Berg    25 pts
2 Mette/Alex    15 pts
2 Nina/Jasper vd Berg    15 pts
3 Simone/Nathan Legger    10 pts
     
Fun Ladies:    
1 Amanda/Ludi vd Vaart     50 pts
2 Xiomara/Maritza    30 pts
3 Esther Huige/Astrid Swaen    25 pts
     
Fun Men:    
1 Paul -/Valentijn v/d Sloot    45 pts

2 Theo de Kool    35 pts
3 Dave Lyon    30 pts
     
Fun mix:    
1 Joe -/Barbara Canton    25 pts.
1 Frido Kraag/Freya Kraag    25 pts
1 Willem / Cora Bant    25 pts
2 Paul/Melody    15 pts
2 Jhon Douglas/Koosje Ketball    15 pts
2 Rutger Ros/ Eline la Croix    15 pts

http://www.arubabeachtennis.com/BeachTennisAruba/Rankingaruba.html


And please tell me that Paul/Melody are not any people we know!  ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 09, 2008, 05:30:43 PM
Ranking Aruba March 2008
Youth advanced:
1 Lukas Steenbakker/David Dias          75 pts
2 Ronald Speyer    30 pts
3 Jean -/Jeantil Saladin    20 pts
     
Fun Kids:    
1 Jelle Groot Antink/Juancito van Leeuwen    30 pts
2 David    25 pts
2 Aaron Speyer/Juanjo    25 pts
3 Bastiaan vd Sloot/Bram vd Scheer    15 pts
3 Emile    15 pts
     
Superkids:    
1 Anne Friederichy/Dominique Huige    25 pts
1 Myron Speyer/Lukas vd Berg    25 pts
2 Mette/Alex    15 pts
2 Nina/Jasper vd Berg    15 pts
3 Simone/Nathan Legger    10 pts
     
Fun Ladies:    
1 Amanda/Ludi vd Vaart     50 pts
2 Xiomara/Maritza    30 pts
3 Esther Huige/Astrid Swaen    25 pts
     
Fun Men:    
1 Paul -/Valentijn v/d Sloot    45 pts

2 Theo de Kool    35 pts
3 Dave Lyon    30 pts
     
Fun mix:    
1 Joe -/Barbara Canton    25 pts.
1 Frido Kraag/Freya Kraag    25 pts
1 Willem / Cora Bant    25 pts
2 Paul/Melody    15 pts
2 Jhon Douglas/Koosje Ketball    15 pts
2 Rutger Ros/ Eline la Croix    15 pts

http://www.arubabeachtennis.com/BeachTennisAruba/Rankingaruba.html


And please tell me that Paul/Melody are not any people we know!  ::MonkeyShocked::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: bleachedblack on April 09, 2008, 05:31:08 PM
Ranking Aruba March 2008
Youth advanced:
1 Lukas Steenbakker/David Dias          75 pts
2 Ronald Speyer    30 pts
3 Jean -/Jeantil Saladin    20 pts
     
Fun Kids:    
1 Jelle Groot Antink/Juancito van Leeuwen    30 pts
2 David    25 pts
2 Aaron Speyer/Juanjo    25 pts
3 Bastiaan vd Sloot/Bram vd Scheer    15 pts
3 Emile    15 pts
     
Superkids:    
1 Anne Friederichy/Dominique Huige    25 pts
1 Myron Speyer/Lukas vd Berg    25 pts
2 Mette/Alex    15 pts
2 Nina/Jasper vd Berg    15 pts
3 Simone/Nathan Legger    10 pts
     
Fun Ladies:    
1 Amanda/Ludi vd Vaart     50 pts
2 Xiomara/Maritza    30 pts
3 Esther Huige/Astrid Swaen    25 pts
     
Fun Men:    
1 Paul -/Valentijn v/d Sloot    45 pts

2 Theo de Kool    35 pts
3 Dave Lyon    30 pts
     
Fun mix:    
1 Joe -/Barbara Canton    25 pts.
1 Frido Kraag/Freya Kraag    25 pts
1 Willem / Cora Bant    25 pts
2 Paul/Melody    15 pts
2 Jhon Douglas/Koosje Ketball    15 pts
2 Rutger Ros/ Eline la Croix    15 pts

http://www.arubabeachtennis.com/BeachTennisAruba/Rankingaruba.html

I was also wondering about the Paul/ melody one hmmmmm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: bleachedblack on April 09, 2008, 05:31:51 PM
LOL Tamikos beat me to it! ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: johan555 on April 09, 2008, 05:33:22 PM
YOU TUBE:
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/2kopie.jpg?t=1207776768)

JORAN ?

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/1kopie.jpg?t=1207776646)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 09, 2008, 05:34:44 PM
Actually, the remark is beyond despicable...I just can't find any word that is that low down....if this is really what is said and it was when Joran came up...then no wonder those in Aruba have no regard for life.  Just proves to me what we have known all along.  I wonder if Nancy Grace or some other news person would be interested in hearing that?  They just continue to slap Beth in the face...why is my blood pressure going up?  I would love to be there with a "Stand with the Girl" T-shirt on.  I am angry now...really angry over that comment.

YOUR HAVING A DAY TOO!

I'm not sure I'll be happy until they're all dead. really really all dead.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 09, 2008, 05:36:30 PM
Actually, the remark is beyond despicable...I just can't find any word that is that low down....if this is really what is said and it was when Joran came up...then no wonder those in Aruba have no regard for life.  Just proves to me what we have known all along.  I wonder if Nancy Grace or some other news person would be interested in hearing that?  They just continue to slap Beth in the face...why is my blood pressure going up?  I would love to be there with a "Stand with the Girl" T-shirt on.  I am angry now...really angry over that comment.

YOUR HAVING A DAY TOO!

I'm not sure I'll be happy until they're all dead. really really all dead.

I agree with you...this is a bad day. LOL  I would not blink an eye if it happened.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: dsmith on April 09, 2008, 05:42:39 PM
I just have a ?  Does anyone drink Red Bull energy drink?  Has anyone read where this stuff is made?  On the back of the can it says "Made In the Netherlands".  I do not drink this stuff, but my daughter came to pick up my granddaughter and was drinking one, she always is drinking this stuff.  I looked at the can and low and behold I could not believe what was written on the back.  I told her she had better quit drinking this stuff.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 09, 2008, 05:42:50 PM
I am going to lie down now...I have seen about all I can take of the cow in black...it's just as disturbing as the blouse...OMG!  The blouse...nightmares galore...poor Bastiaan...he is screwed..he just needs to give it up and become the beach bum he's destined to be.  I bet Boeti would take him in.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 09, 2008, 05:43:33 PM
Actually, the remark is beyond despicable...I just can't find any word that is that low down....if this is really what is said and it was when Joran came up...then no wonder those in Aruba have no regard for life.  Just proves to me what we have known all along.  I wonder if Nancy Grace or some other news person would be interested in hearing that?  They just continue to slap Beth in the face...why is my blood pressure going up?  I would love to be there with a "Stand with the Girl" T-shirt on.  I am angry now...really angry over that comment.

YOUR HAVING A DAY TOO!

I'm not sure I'll be happy until they're all dead. really really all dead.

I agree with you...this is a bad day. LOL  I would not blink an eye if it happened.

the Sloots just suck!!! I seriously hope each of them die a terrible painful death. <--- I shouldn't say that... really I shouldn't.

and Daury was probably just running his lil drug smuggling business and Joran got him put on a watch list and now he's in jail. Daury was probably under the radar and enjoying his little enterprise... and Whammo... Sloot skates, Daury jailed LOL



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 09, 2008, 05:45:43 PM
I wrote in the Shango thread, that at 6:27 into the clip the commentator says, "Holloway in the house, the man from Holloway country". My ears must be playing tricks.....is joran there? and  are these people  joking with Joran?   ::MonkeyNoNo::

BB...that would tie in with my question regarding if it says...JVS...on Paulus' shirt...was wondering if Joran was in competition...and daddy is supporting him....ya know...a family thang...like killing...

FYI - I sent this to Red.  Hoping he'll do a front page post on it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: caesu on April 09, 2008, 06:15:39 PM
Quote
Pope denounces Antilles tourisms downside

Vatican City - The pope bemoaned what he said were the effects of exploitative tourism and the scourge of the arms and drugs trade in the West Indian Antilles island group.

To varying degrees, your shores have been battered by negative aspects of the entertainment industry, exploitative tourism and the scourge of the arms and drugs trade, Pope Benedict XVI said during an audience here for Roman Catholic bishops from the various Caribbean islands.

Such influences not only undermine family life and unsettle the foundations of traditional cultural values, but tend to affect negatively local politics, the pontiff added.

He appealed to the visiting bishops to do everything possible to support marriage and family life, which he stressed were the primary source of cohesion within communities.

The Antilles bishops conference links prelates of 13 independent states and six territories under British, French and Dutch rule.

http://www.thetimes.co.za/Business/BusinessTimes/Article.aspx?id=743290


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: KarmaRoundUp on April 09, 2008, 06:15:50 PM
YOU TUBE:
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/2kopie.jpg?t=1207776768)

JORAN ?

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/1kopie.jpg?t=1207776646)
I think that's the announcer but he does look a little like paulus vds....hmmmm....maybe lorenzo has a new job on aruba.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: SunnyinTX on April 09, 2008, 06:23:38 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8\

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyDance::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ArubaBeachTennisSloots.gif)

What in the hell is that on her AZZ???????????????????????????


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: bleachedblack on April 09, 2008, 06:26:59 PM
Quote
Pope denounces Antilles tourisms downside

Vatican City - The pope bemoaned what he said were the effects of exploitative tourism and the scourge of the arms and drugs trade in the West Indian Antilles island group.

To varying degrees, your shores have been battered by negative aspects of the entertainment industry, exploitative tourism and the scourge of the arms and drugs trade, Pope Benedict XVI said during an audience here for Roman Catholic bishops from the various Caribbean islands.

Such influences not only undermine family life and unsettle the foundations of traditional cultural values, but tend to affect negatively local politics, the pontiff added.

He appealed to the visiting bishops to do everything possible to support marriage and family life, which he stressed were the primary source of cohesion within communities.

The Antilles bishops conference links prelates of 13 independent states and six territories under British, French and Dutch rule.

http://www.thetimes.co.za/Business/BusinessTimes/Article.aspx?id=743290

WOW


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: BTgirl on April 09, 2008, 06:27:38 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8\

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyDance::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ArubaBeachTennisSloots.gif)

What in the hell is that on her AZZ???????????????????????????

The rest of her azz?  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 09, 2008, 06:29:06 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8\

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyDance::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ArubaBeachTennisSloots.gif)

What in the hell is that on her AZZ???????????????????????????

Carpe just posted this one on the front page of SM  ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/iuiuiuiiu8787.png)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: bleachedblack on April 09, 2008, 06:30:01 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8\

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyDance::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ArubaBeachTennisSloots.gif)

What in the hell is that on her AZZ???????????????????????????

Looks like the turkish flag........


(http://www.turkeyrealestate.co.uk/Turkey-Facts/Turkey_flag.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: bleachedblack on April 09, 2008, 06:33:18 PM
LOL Carpe  :smt044 :smt083 :smt030


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 09, 2008, 07:55:19 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8\

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyDance::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ArubaBeachTennisSloots.gif)

What in the hell is that on her AZZ???????????????????????????

The rest of her azz?  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Better question....why is the cow in black even wearing a swimsuit?  Does she have no shame at all?  Some things are best left to the imagination. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: sandy leiva on April 09, 2008, 08:37:39 PM
We had been talking about tennis/aruba and I happened to watch this youtube video. Thought you might like to catch a glimpse of PVDS and Anita .......life goes on ......
at 36 seconds into the video as camera pans left to right you can see paulus in his whites wiping his glasses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8
was that anita in the brown swimsuit, Yes paulus is wiping his glasses and Val is the young kid behind him


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 09, 2008, 08:40:48 PM
We had been talking about tennis/aruba and I happened to watch this youtube video. Thought you might like to catch a glimpse of PVDS and Anita .......life goes on ......
at 36 seconds into the video as camera pans left to right you can see paulus in his whites wiping his glasses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8
was that anita in the brown swimsuit, Yes paulus is wiping his glasses and Val is the young kid behind him

No, that's not Valentijn behind him that must be Sebastian.  Valentijn is very tall even in November 2007 and quite thin.  Sebastian still looks like he has trouble with his weight.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: sandy leiva on April 09, 2008, 08:50:17 PM
We had been talking about tennis/aruba and I happened to watch this youtube video. Thought you might like to catch a glimpse of PVDS and Anita .......life goes on ......
at 36 seconds into the video as camera pans left to right you can see paulus in his whites wiping his glasses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8
was that anita in the brown swimsuit, Yes paulus is wiping his glasses and Val is the young kid behind him

No, that's not Valentijn behind him that must be Sebastian.  Valentijn is very tall even in November 2007 and quite thin.  Sebastian still looks like he has trouble with his weight.

yes Klass your right it is Bastian behind pvds not Val


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: San on April 09, 2008, 09:50:29 PM
We had been talking about tennis/aruba and I happened to watch this youtube video. Thought you might like to catch a glimpse of PVDS and Anita .......life goes on ......
at 36 seconds into the video as camera pans left to right you can see paulus in his whites wiping his glasses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8
was that anita in the brown swimsuit, Yes paulus is wiping his glasses and Val is the young kid behind him

No, that's not Valentijn behind him that must be Sebastian.  Valentijn is very tall even in November 2007 and quite thin.  Sebastian still looks like he has trouble with his weight.

Gee I wonder who he takes after  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: windy city on April 09, 2008, 09:52:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8\

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyDance::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ArubaBeachTennisSloots.gif)

What in the hell is that on her AZZ???????????????????????????

Looks like the turkish flag........


(http://www.turkeyrealestate.co.uk/Turkey-Facts/Turkey_flag.gif)

You're close BB.  It's the "I ate a whole turkey" emblem.

Hi Monkeys!  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: sharon on April 09, 2008, 10:18:19 PM

Hi Sharon,

yes I can tell ;-). You live in Miami? Awwww...I'm going to the States for a couple of weeks soon and Miami is a place I would love to visit but it couldn't be put in our schedule.

I'm not for boycotting Aruba though. There are a lot of people on Aruba who have done nothing wrong and who have to live from tourism. Why hurt people for something they did not take part in and who hate the situation as much as any 'normal' person would?

I understand the people in higher functions / the corrupt people won't change unless other people make them too...but hurting people that have nothing to do with it and have to make a living for their own families isn't the way it should be done according to me. I don't have the answers on how to put the right presssure on the ALE but making even more innocent people the victim doesn't feel right to me.




Maybe you can fit Miami in next time. Most visitors prefer our winters to summers.

But I do live in an area with a large tourism economy so I can express opinions from that perspective.

Living in an area where the mainstreams for professional life focus on tourism and health care -- living in an area that has gone through cycles of tourism havens and tourism boycotts -- I uniquely feel for innocent folks of Aruba.

I spent close to 20 years earning a living in the hospitality arena and have been both postively and negatively impacted by the cycles.

I also live in a very touristy area of Miami. And I abhor the crime that tourism innately brings. And I do many things to support the safety of my area -- for the tourists as well as for my family.

And when we were boycotted primarily from European visitors because our visitors were being targeted by criminals as they left rental car agency we bugged our local government until there was action.

The rental cars were clearly marked by their license tags allowing our guests to be targeted. That was changed.

Tourists were getting lost -- the airport is always under construction, the area around the airport is very industrial and, well, unsafe. New signage was put up at all airport exits and hiway intersections -- symbols for hotels, the beach, the city, etc - are used rather than words.

And the tourists returned. Yippppeeee. (I'm not a big fan of tourist season. Which appears to be all year. lol)

I don't see anything remotely resembling that from Aruba. And the good people of Aruba need to pressure their elected officials to do the right thing for their tourism industry, their economy and especially for their own welfare. And the welfare of their family. Or move away. Where they and their families can be safe.

But I'm said to be too logical at times.

And it is all just my opinion.



But it is only my opinion.





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: caesu on April 09, 2008, 10:35:40 PM
the aruban strike of the state workers is more reported in dutch media now.

few days ago it was reported that planes had to be diverted to curaao and even san juan, puerto rico due to the strike

http://www.nrc.nl/buitenland/article1043887.ece/Vliegtuigen_ontwijken_Aruba_door_staking

now the news is that strikers stormed in the parliament and refused to leave.
they wanted to speak to MEP members of parliament.
the MEP party is enforcing total silence (shunning).
the speaker of parliament is nowhere to be found.

the police is not forcing them out yet 'because the opposition parties' might want to talk to them.

AVP Mike Eman is supporting this action.

http://www.nu.nl/news/1519403/20/rss/Arubaans_parlement_bezet.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: kkate on April 09, 2008, 10:35:54 PM
GAKKK!

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/waterbuffalohooker2.jpg)

How many Lycras had to die to make that suit!  ::MonkeyEek::::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: wreck on April 09, 2008, 10:38:04 PM

Hi Sharon,

yes I can tell ;-). You live in Miami? Awwww...I'm going to the States for a couple of weeks soon and Miami is a place I would love to visit but it couldn't be put in our schedule.

I'm not for boycotting Aruba though. There are a lot of people on Aruba who have done nothing wrong and who have to live from tourism. Why hurt people for something they did not take part in and who hate the situation as much as any 'normal' person would?

I understand the people in higher functions / the corrupt people won't change unless other people make them too...but hurting people that have nothing to do with it and have to make a living for their own families isn't the way it should be done according to me. I don't have the answers on how to put the right pressure on the ALE but making even more innocent people the victim doesn't feel right to me.




Maybe you can fit Miami in next time. Most visitors prefer our winters to summers.

But I do live in an area with a large tourism economy so I can express opinions from that perspective.

Living in an area where the mainstreams for professional life focus on tourism and health care -- living in an area that has gone through cycles of tourism havens and tourism boycotts -- I uniquely feel for innocent folks of Aruba.

I spent close to 20 years earning a living in the hospitality arena and have been both positively and negatively impacted by the cycles.

I also live in a very touristy area of Miami. And I abhor the crime that tourism innately brings. And I do many things to support the safety of my area -- for the tourists as well as for my family.

And when we were boycotted primarily from European visitors because our visitors were being targeted by criminals as they left rental car agency we bugged our local government until there was action.

The rental cars were clearly marked by their license tags allowing our guests to be targeted. That was changed.

Tourists were getting lost -- the airport is always under construction, the area around the airport is very industrial and, well, unsafe. New signage was put up at all airport exits and hiway intersections -- symbols for hotels, the beach, the city, etc - are used rather than words.

And the tourists returned. Yippppeeee. (I'm not a big fan of tourist season. Which appears to be all year. lol)

I don't see anything remotely resembling that from Aruba. And the good people of Aruba need to pressure their elected officials to do the right thing for their tourism industry, their economy and especially for their own welfare. And the welfare of their family. Or move away. Where they and their families can be safe.

But I'm said to be too logical at times.

And it is all just my opinion.



But it is only my opinion.




The whole purpose of boycotting was to get to the Aruban GOVERNMENT to do what was morally and ethically correct. The Aruban GOVERNMENT has FAILED to do the right thing. No one is responsible for the economic decline in Aruba except the Aruban GOVERNMENT. It has taken 3 long years for the citizens to rise up against the GOVERNMENT -- and I still don't see the citizens realizing WHY their economy has declined so badly! I used to feel sorry for the "innocent" citizens -- not anymore!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: caesu on April 09, 2008, 10:41:12 PM
the aruban strike of the state workers is more reported in dutch media now.

few days ago it was reported that planes had to be diverted to curaao and even san juan, puerto rico due to the strike

http://www.nrc.nl/buitenland/article1043887.ece/Vliegtuigen_ontwijken_Aruba_door_staking

now the news is that strikers stormed in the parliament and refused to leave.
they wanted to speak to MEP members of parliament.
the MEP party is enforcing total silence (shunning).
the speaker of parliament is nowhere to be found.

the police is not forcing them out yet 'because the opposition parties' might want to talk to them.

AVP Mike Eman is supporting this action.

http://www.nu.nl/news/1519403/20/rss/Arubaans_parlement_bezet.html

photos:

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/4466/5/
(http://www.24ora.com/mambots/content/multithumb/images/1..stories.news.2008.april2008.april9.parlamento.IMGP7459.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: jackb on April 09, 2008, 10:54:20 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8\

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyDance::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ArubaBeachTennisSloots.gif)

What in the hell is that on her AZZ???????????????????????????

Looks like the turkish flag........


(http://www.turkeyrealestate.co.uk/Turkey-Facts/Turkey_flag.gif)

You're close BB.  It's the "I ate a whole turkey" emblem.

Hi Monkeys!  ::MonkeyCool::

That would be the parking place for the country of Aruba when she switches places with someone else.  She must be taking a brake from her azz being used as a parking deck.  No doubt that looks like JVs with the short, short haircut, hat over eyes and hiding his face. 

Jackb



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: jackb on April 09, 2008, 10:59:23 PM
Joran looks like he is on Thorazine.  Pretty sure that would be him.  Must be visator's day or he has a pass.  Looks a mite down-in-the mouth.   jackb


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: jackb on April 09, 2008, 11:04:25 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8\

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyDance::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ArubaBeachTennisSloots.gif)

What in the hell is that on her AZZ???????????????????????????

That, my dear, is called a crack eroo.   jackb


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: jackb on April 09, 2008, 11:07:37 PM
I wrote in the Shango thread, that at 6:27 into the clip the commentator says, "Holloway in the house, the man from Holloway country". My ears must be playing tricks.....is joran there? and  are these people  joking with Joran?   ::MonkeyNoNo::

BB...that would tie in with my question regarding if it says...JVS...on Paulus' shirt...was wondering if Joran was in competition...and daddy is supporting him....ya know...a family thang...like killing...

Joran is playing his "crazy" role.  He always wanted to be in the movies.  I am curious why the Kalpoes and "Daury" have not sued the Vds via Joran due to his "involving" them since they like to sue so well.  jackb


Aren't they on the same beach Joran claims he left Natalee dead and asked Paulus...I mean Daury to take care of her?  I think so...this tennis thing is at Moombas...and people think they give a rat's patootie about anything...they don't care....they know they are free and clear.  No body...no case...NO WORRIES!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: jackb on April 09, 2008, 11:10:04 PM
I wrote in the Shango thread, that at 6:27 into the clip the commentator says, "Holloway in the house, the man from Holloway country". My ears must be playing tricks.....is joran there? and  are these people  joking with Joran?   ::MonkeyNoNo::

BB...that would tie in with my question regarding if it says...JVS...on Paulus' shirt...was wondering if Joran was in competition...and daddy is supporting him....ya know...a family thang...like killing...


Aren't they on the same beach Joran claims he left Natalee dead and asked Paulus...I mean Daury to take care of her?  I think so...this tennis thing is at Moombas...and people think they give a rat's patootie about anything...they don't care....they know they are free and clear.  No body...no case...NO WORRIES!

I can only assume that the VDS' hearts have been hardened by their own selfishness.  In other words ... no conscience ... no empathy regarding the heartbreak of others.

Janet

++++++++++

Hebrews 3:12-14

See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God.  But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness.

Read the book 23 minutes in Hell.  It is something.   jackb


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 09, 2008, 11:10:19 PM
Posted by Glenda at RU when the question was asked where Daury was arrested:

NYC, on previous smuggling charges, not current.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: jackb on April 09, 2008, 11:13:32 PM
I wrote in the Shango thread, that at 6:27 into the clip the commentator says, "Holloway in the house, the man from Holloway country". My ears must be playing tricks.....is joran there? and  are these people  joking with Joran?   ::MonkeyNoNo::

 ::MonkeyShocked::

I heard it!!!  Despicable!!!

Janet

They may be more right then they think by the time Dave and Beth get through with those people for covering that case up.    j/b


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: carpe noctem on April 09, 2008, 11:29:08 PM
I believe I heard the announcer say THE AMERICANS somewhere in there.

That is apparently what they refer to as HOLLOWAY COUNTRY now.

It is all a joke to them.

 ::MonkeyConfused::

...and they wonder why most Americans don't want to come anymore.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: jackb on April 09, 2008, 11:34:14 PM
We had been talking about tennis/aruba and I happened to watch this youtube video. Thought you might like to catch a glimpse of PVDS and Anita .......life goes on ......
at 36 seconds into the video as camera pans left to right you can see paulus in his whites wiping his glasses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/PVDSANDANITA4.jpg)

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/PVDSANDANITA5.jpg)

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/PVDSANDANITA6.jpg)

That last pic of Pvs looks like AB.  Wonder if they are kin too?  Could be. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: jackb on April 09, 2008, 11:36:23 PM
That's either them or two people with the worst genetic luck in the universe.

Oh Rob!  You missed the catch of Anita in the swimsuit...go back and get that one too...please...cow in black...oops..sorry I didn't say that did I? 

The Bovine Assoc. of Aruba will sue you.  Then again she may be heading that up.  j/b


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dihannah1 on April 09, 2008, 11:41:45 PM
Good Evening Monkey friends!   I'm catching up, but also wanted to point out something O/T real quick.  Action needed in Crimes Against Children thread!  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2782.new#new (http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2782.new#new)

Ok, back to reading.   ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Bearlyhere on April 09, 2008, 11:41:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8\

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyDance::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ArubaBeachTennisSloots.gif)

What in the hell is that on her AZZ???????????????????????????

Oh, I get it, the cow jumped over the moon.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: wreck on April 09, 2008, 11:45:42 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8\

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyDance::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ArubaBeachTennisSloots.gif)

What in the hell is that on her AZZ???????????????????????????

Oh, I get it, the cow jumped over the moon.
"Hey Diddle Diddle"  ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 10, 2008, 12:04:35 AM
That's either them or two people with the worst genetic luck in the universe.

Oh Rob!  You missed the catch of Anita in the swimsuit...go back and get that one too...please...cow in black...oops..sorry I didn't say that did I? 

The Bovine Assoc. of Aruba will sue you.  Then again she may be heading that up.  j/b

My sincere apologies to cows everywhere...what was I thinking?  :roll:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dihannah1 on April 10, 2008, 12:23:21 AM
I just have a ?  Does anyone drink Red Bull energy drink?  Has anyone read where this stuff is made?  On the back of the can it says "Made In the Netherlands".  I do not drink this stuff, but my daughter came to pick up my granddaughter and was drinking one, she always is drinking this stuff.  I looked at the can and low and behold I could not believe what was written on the back.  I told her she had better quit drinking this stuff.

Thanks for sharing dsmith!  That is interesting, I would have never thought Red Bull came from NL.   I never think to look at items most of the time to see where they came from. I just assumed it was made here.  Who are the makers?  I thought Pepsi or Coke or something......


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: jackb on April 10, 2008, 12:40:47 AM
I just have a ?  Does anyone drink Red Bull energy drink?  Has anyone read where this stuff is made?  On the back of the can it says "Made In the Netherlands".  I do not drink this stuff, but my daughter came to pick up my granddaughter and was drinking one, she always is drinking this stuff.  I looked at the can and low and behold I could not believe what was written on the back.  I told her she had better quit drinking this stuff.

Thanks for sharing dsmith!  That is interesting, I would have never thought Red Bull came from NL.   I never think to look at items most of the time to see where they came from. I just assumed it was made here.  Who are the makers?  I thought Pepsi or Coke or something......

Would Red Bull be Anita's dad?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: wreck on April 10, 2008, 12:46:04 AM
I just have a ?  Does anyone drink Red Bull energy drink?  Has anyone read where this stuff is made?  On the back of the can it says "Made In the Netherlands".  I do not drink this stuff, but my daughter came to pick up my granddaughter and was drinking one, she always is drinking this stuff.  I looked at the can and low and behold I could not believe what was written on the back.  I told her she had better quit drinking this stuff.

Thanks for sharing dsmith!  That is interesting, I would have never thought Red Bull came from NL.   I never think to look at items most of the time to see where they came from. I just assumed it was made here.  Who are the makers?  I thought Pepsi or Coke or something......
I could not find any references to The Netherlands for Red Bull. It apparently originated in Thailand and was taken globally by an Austrian.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dihannah1 on April 10, 2008, 12:46:48 AM
I just have a ?  Does anyone drink Red Bull energy drink?  Has anyone read where this stuff is made?  On the back of the can it says "Made In the Netherlands".  I do not drink this stuff, but my daughter came to pick up my granddaughter and was drinking one, she always is drinking this stuff.  I looked at the can and low and behold I could not believe what was written on the back.  I told her she had better quit drinking this stuff.

Thanks for sharing dsmith!  That is interesting, I would have never thought Red Bull came from NL.   I never think to look at items most of the time to see where they came from. I just assumed it was made here.  Who are the makers?  I thought Pepsi or Coke or something......

Would Red Bull be Anita's dad?

ROFLOL!  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Buckeye on April 10, 2008, 05:26:12 AM
Posted April 9, 2008
AHATAs Chairman remarks at the General Assembly

.....
The Chairman continued to explain that in 2007 the infamous LTU law was passed by the Council of Ministers and brought unexpected winds of change the unpleasant news that as of the year 2006 work permits granted will have an expiration date within 3 years; with no extension option, with the exception of Dutch nationals.

And that, reported the Chairman is creating the potential storm. In 2009 about 7,000 work permits of well trained, well established tourism workers will expire. These associates, who in the meantime learned the skills and the languages required, and who are capable of providing good service to the islands customers, are people who invested in properties and cars and brought families to our shores. They will find themselves in a situation where they will have to leave, their permits expired, non - renewable. Period!

How is the island going to replace them, asked the Chairman and where will the island be able to recruit new people from; how and where is the island going to train them?! And will the replacements be versed in the required languages? Besides, how is the government going to process this new avalanche of work permit paperwork?

Presently, stated the Chairman, the authorities are unable to process regular requests, there is a backlog of documents already, and how will they be able to proceed with the added burden.

Biemans explained that in 2010 several thousands of more work permits will expire, perhaps another estimated 5,000 associates will be forced to depart and how is the island going to replace them?

Recently, recounted Biemans, he was invited to attend a luncheon with the Prime Minister of the Netherlands. Biemans appealed to him on this issue since he was informed that the law originated in Holland. The Dutch Prime Minister emphatically denied this and so did the representative of the Dutch government here in Aruba and Biemans found out that this law was implemented by the islands own government! But the finger pointing, her remarked, goes on as Arubas politicians point northeast and the Dutch point southwest with no solution in sight.
....

http://batibleki.visitaruba.com/2008/04/09/ahata%e2%80%99s-chairman-remarks-at-the-general-assembly/



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: jackb on April 10, 2008, 08:11:37 AM
Posted April 9, 2008
AHATAs Chairman remarks at the General Assembly

.....
The Chairman continued to explain that in 2007 the infamous LTU law was passed by the Council of Ministers and brought unexpected winds of change the unpleasant news that as of the year 2006 work permits granted will have an expiration date within 3 years; with no extension option, with the exception of Dutch nationals.

And that, reported the Chairman is creating the potential storm. In 2009 about 7,000 work permits of well trained, well established tourism workers will expire. These associates, who in the meantime learned the skills and the languages required, and who are capable of providing good service to the islands customers, are people who invested in properties and cars and brought families to our shores. They will find themselves in a situation where they will have to leave, their permits expired, non - renewable. Period!

How is the island going to replace them, asked the Chairman and where will the island be able to recruit new people from; how and where is the island going to train them?! And will the replacements be versed in the required languages? Besides, how is the government going to process this new avalanche of work permit paperwork?

Presently, stated the Chairman, the authorities are unable to process regular requests, there is a backlog of documents already, and how will they be able to proceed with the added burden.

Biemans explained that in 2010 several thousands of more work permits will expire, perhaps another estimated 5,000 associates will be forced to depart and how is the island going to replace them?

Recently, recounted Biemans, he was invited to attend a luncheon with the Prime Minister of the Netherlands. Biemans appealed to him on this issue since he was informed that the law originated in Holland. The Dutch Prime Minister emphatically denied this and so did the representative of the Dutch government here in Aruba and Biemans found out that this law was implemented by the islands own government! But the finger pointing, her remarked, goes on as Arubas politicians point northeast and the Dutch point southwest with no solution in sight.
....

http://batibleki.visitaruba.com/2008/04/09/ahata%e2%80%99s-chairman-remarks-at-the-general-assembly/



No Problemo:  Print some books in the respective languages on:

How to insult tourists for DUMMIES.  How to steal from and kill tourists for DUMMIES. How to make tourists commit "suicide" in 10 different ways. How to video unsuspecting tourists in the hotel/motel rooms for DUMMIES.  How to kidnap, rape, batter and disappear tourists for DUMMIES.  How to pay off officials for DUMMIES.  How to track, stalk and bring unsuspecting miseries to DUMMIES and finally: How to pay off officials in blood blood money and sex with tourists alive and dead and never be prosecuted for BIG DUMMIES.  That should about take care of what seems to be their agenda for educating the workers and keeping them around until they know too much or demand too much pay for their labor.    Jackb


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: jackb on April 10, 2008, 08:14:36 AM
We had been talking about tennis/aruba and I happened to watch this youtube video. Thought you might like to catch a glimpse of PVDS and Anita .......life goes on ......
at 36 seconds into the video as camera pans left to right you can see paulus in his whites wiping his glasses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8
was that anita in the brown swimsuit, Yes paulus is wiping his glasses and Val is the young kid behind him

No, that's not Valentijn behind him that must be Sebastian.  Valentijn is very tall even in November 2007 and quite thin.  Sebastian still looks like he has trouble with his weight.

Gee I wonder who he takes after  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Would that be Dennis Jacobs?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: jackb on April 10, 2008, 08:23:49 AM
I am going to lie down now...I have seen about all I can take of the cow in black...it's just as disturbing as the blouse...OMG!  The blouse...nightmares galore...poor Bastiaan...he is screwed..he just needs to give it up and become the beach bum he's destined to be.  I bet Boeti would take him in.

That sounds like a good movie:  "Cow in Black"  staring Anita and Pa Red Bull, with Bison Joran, and udderless wonder, Palus.  Possibly waltzing into the movie are brothers known and unknown to be revealed towards the end of the movie.    jackb 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Nut44x4 on April 10, 2008, 08:32:58 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8\

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyDance::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ArubaBeachTennisSloots.gif)

What in the hell is that on her AZZ???????????????????????????

Looks like the turkish flag........


(http://www.turkeyrealestate.co.uk/Turkey-Facts/Turkey_flag.gif)

You're close BB.  It's the "I ate a whole turkey" emblem.

Hi Monkeys!  ::MonkeyCool::

That would be the parking place for the country of Aruba when she switches places with someone else.  She must be taking a brake from her azz being used as a parking deck.  No doubt that looks like JVs with the short, short haircut, hat over eyes and hiding his face. 

Jackb




No way that is Joran in the hat...way too small to be him.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 08:58:23 AM
http://news.diario-aruba.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1798&Itemid=30

Daury ta deteni riba sospecho di posesion di 8 kilo di Heroina       
Thursday, 10 April 2008 
*Droga no a worde haya riba dje sinembargo
*Segun FBI, Daury sa mas di desaparicion di Natalee

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Informacion confiable cu DIARIO a haya for di Merca ta cu Daury kende algun tempo pasa a worde deteni na Merca, manera DIARIO a publica ayera, ta worde sospecha di posesion di 8 kilo di Heroina.

E acusacion ta bisa Posesion with the intention to distribute, pues e ta worde acusa di posesion di e heroina, cu intencion di trafica.

Segun e informacion, e acusacion ta di Januari aa pasa, unda cu autoridadnan Mericano a wak e den compania di personanan kende nan tin bista riba dje, relaciona cu traficacion di heroina.
Na momento cu el a bolbe Merca, nan a detene y awor e ta cera na New Jersey.

Riba su persona nan no a haya ningun droga, pero awor cu e ta acusa di posesion di 8 kilo di heroina cu intencion di trafica, e lo por haya un castigo te cu 20 aa, si e worde haya culpable.
Manera ta conoci, Daury su nomber a worde menciona pa Joran van der Sloot, ora cu Patrick van der Eem a puntre ta ken a yude deshaci di e curpa di Natalee Holloway.

Daury mes a bin dilanti mesora pa desmenti esaki y a mustra cu riba dia di desaparicion di e mucha muher Mericano, e tabata na Hulanda.

Sinembargo awor cu e ta deteni na New Jersey, FBI Mericano ta insinua cu Daury di berdad sa hopi mas di e desaparicion di Natalee Holloway, cu el a bisa.

Through pap translator:

daury is deteni on suspicion of posesion of 8 kilo of heroin
thursday, 10 april 2008

 *droga not owing to worde achieve on dje sinembargo
 *segun fbi, daury know more of desaparicion of natalee

 oranjestad (aan): informacion confiable cu daily paper owing to achieve for of merca is cu daury that some time happen owing to worde deteni at merca, as daily paper owing to publica yesterday, is worde sospecha of posesion of 8 kilo of heroin. the acusacion is tell posesion with the intention to distribute, then the is worde acusa of posesion of the heroin, cu intencion of trafica. according the informacion, the acusacion is of january year happen, where cu autoridadnan mericano owing to look at the in compania of personanan that they have view on dje, relaciona cu traficacion of heroin. at instant cu past owing to go back merca, they owing to detene y now the is close at new jersey. on his person they not owing to achieve none drugs, but now cu the is acusa of posesion of 8 kilo of heroin cu intencion of trafica, the will can achieve one castigo till cu 20 year, if the worde achieve culpable. as is conoci, daury his name owing to worde menciona for joran van der sloot, hour cu patrick van der eem owing to puntre is that owing to yude deshaci of the curpa of natalee holloway. daury self owing to come fast at once for desmenti this y owing to show cu on day of desaparicion of the child muher mericano, the was at the netherlands. sinembargo now cu the is deteni at new jersey, fbi mericano is insinua cu daury of berdad know much more of the desaparicion of natalee holloway, cu past owing to tell. come across

 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 09:05:30 AM
I posted this in thread...too many screens open and not enough coffee yet...

Good Morning,

I have been thinking about the workers strike, and I think we have Aruba right where we want them. I firmly believe that they are on the brink of total collapse. No, I don't have an economic degree, just one in business, and I see what others see. The war of attrition is about over.

If Aruba had any money they would just pay these workers the standard cost of living increase and be done with it. Just make it go away and do not risk the 2009 elections. After-all, all of these workers will remember what Oduber did to them. Whether Oduber is the guilty party or not is irrelevant. He is the face of the government and he will be held accountable. But they have no money. They are about bankrupt. I have a sneaky suspicion that the meeting last month with Balkende was mostly about financing Aruba. Nothing more. Aruba desperately needs an influx of cash. And the devalued Dollar is not the answer. They need Euros. And lots and lots of them.

This workers strike is not totally indicative of the overall situation on Aruba, but it is a clear indication that Aruba does not have any money to make the problem go away. And that's the standard operating procedure on that crappy little island. Pay up and the problem goes away.

So, now not only do you have someone in the US government with a thorn in their foot for American Airlines and the MD 80s, but when coupled with the economic fall out that goes in all directions you have the current situation on Aruba. This is a situation Aruba can not afford. Aruba does not want what's left of their tourist base to see the workers strike. Aruba is probably down to the only remain loyal tourists - the timeshare owners who have no choice but to go to Aruba or exchange the allotted time for a new destination.

A few more weeks of this strike and Aruba will be finished in my opinion... now, if Holland will just hold off that cash we'll have them in a headlock!




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 09:08:48 AM
Wow, Daury had 8 kilos.. he's a major playah!!! That's alotta smack! How could someone transport that much "H" on their body? He must have been stashing it in his luggage or had some other scheme.

He's looking at a lot of time here. If he knows anything about Natalee, he better be barking from the rafters or he's gone . . . looks like this could be a life sentence.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 09:10:56 AM
Wow, Daury had 8 kilos.. he's a major playah!!! That's alotta smack! How could someone transport that much "H" on their body? He must have been stashing it in his luggage or had some other scheme.

He's looking at a lot of time here. If he knows anything about Natalee, he better be barking from the rafters or he's gone . . . looks like this could be a life sentence.

kilo = 2.2046 pounds

8 x 2.2046 = 17.638 pound of heroin.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 09:16:27 AM
Wow, Daury had 8 kilos.. he's a major playah!!! That's alotta smack! How could someone transport that much "H" on their body? He must have been stashing it in his luggage or had some other scheme.

He's looking at a lot of time here. If he knows anything about Natalee, he better be barking from the rafters or he's gone . . . looks like this could be a life sentence.

kilo = 2.2046 pounds

8 x 2.2046 = 17.638 pound of heroin.

I think the article says he could get 20 years.  Wonder if the FBI is questioning him regarding the NH case?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 09:19:35 AM

I think the article says he could get 20 years.  Wonder if the FBI is questioning him regarding the NH case?

Right, that's a life sentence. I *think* it does say they are looking at him in that regard.. and Good Morning Klaas... will you please delete my post in the Simain / Shango thread.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 09:27:06 AM
I wonder if this is truly a older case. It seems to me that someone from a foreign country that was alleged to commit this crime would not be freed to return home in the hopes he would re-appear at a later date. If this is an older case that pre-dates Joran naming Daury as his alleged accomplice, Daury would have every reason to "disappear" and never be seen again. 20 years is a very good motivator.

If the US Federal Authorities had the hands on him on the alleged smuggling charge, I somehow doubt they would let him go. The first thing they would want to know is who is he working with / for. That's always the first question, and unless they were going after that person, I sincerely doubt they were going to allow him to return home to Holland.

In any event, he's back behind bars and he's looking at a long jail sentence. I kinds bet he wishes he knows something about Natalee now.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 09:38:46 AM
I wonder if this is truly a older case. It seems to me that someone from a foreign country that was alleged to commit this crime would not be freed to return home in the hopes he would re-appear at a later date. If this is an older case that pre-dates Joran naming Daury as his alleged accomplice, Daury would have every reason to "disappear" and never be seen again. 20 years is a very good motivator.

If the US Federal Authorities had the hands on him on the alleged smuggling charge, I somehow doubt they would let him go. The first thing they would want to know is who is he working with / for. That's always the first question, and unless they were going after that person, I sincerely doubt they were going to allow him to return home to Holland.

In any event, he's back behind bars and he's looking at a long jail sentence. I kinds bet he wishes he knows something about Natalee now.

I'm hoping Red can get a full translation of that article from Jossy.  The article mentions January but Glenda at RU has been hinting that he was arrested about a month ago.  A month ago was March, not January and well after the "confession" tape.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 10, 2008, 10:07:08 AM
I just have a ?  Does anyone drink Red Bull energy drink?  Has anyone read where this stuff is made?  On the back of the can it says "Made In the Netherlands".  I do not drink this stuff, but my daughter came to pick up my granddaughter and was drinking one, she always is drinking this stuff.  I looked at the can and low and behold I could not believe what was written on the back.  I told her she had better quit drinking this stuff.


CBC MARKETPLACE: YOUR HEALTH ENERGY DRINKS
Raging Bull: Health warnings over popular energy drink being brushed off?
Broadcast: February 6, 2005


http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/files/health/redbull/index.html



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: msmarple on April 10, 2008, 10:11:33 AM
RE Daury  - The article states that the H was not on his person. He probably was on a flight in January that attracted the attention of the DEA or FBI. Questioning of suspects probably turned up his name in connection with the drugs - or maybe he was the one who checked in the H.

And the authorities let it all go in order to ID the destination, trafficers, etc.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: msmarple on April 10, 2008, 10:13:28 AM
Hey - klaas - I was able to post. I'll try again on the one I emailed you about.

Yes, I'm baaack - sort of. Can barely type these days.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 10:15:15 AM
Hey - klaas - I was able to post. I'll try again on the one I emailed you about.

Yes, I'm baaack - sort of. Can barely type these days.

Cool!  Welcome back!  ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 10:17:21 AM
RE Daury  - The article states that the H was not on his person. He probably was on a flight in January that attracted the attention of the DEA or FBI. Questioning of suspects probably turned up his name in connection with the drugs - or maybe he was the one who checked in the H.

And the authorities let it all go in order to ID the destination, trafficers, etc.

Thanks msmarple!  You've gotten pretty good at deciphering Pap, LOL  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: msmarple on April 10, 2008, 10:23:25 AM
klaas - SM still not taking this post I wrote to you about. Odd.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 10:40:43 AM
klaas - SM still not taking this post I wrote to you about. Odd.

You want to email it to me and I'll try posting it?  Let me know where you want it posted.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 10, 2008, 10:46:43 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8\

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyDance::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ArubaBeachTennisSloots.gif)

What in the hell is that on her AZZ???????????????????????????

Carpe just posted this one on the front page of SM  ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/iuiuiuiiu8787.png)

JLAAS...Thank You for the tattoo....LOL!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: msmarple on April 10, 2008, 10:53:11 AM
klaas - SM still not taking this post I wrote to you about. Odd.

You want to email it to me and I'll try posting it?  Let me know where you want it posted.

Well, I would, except recall that on my second attempt, I got a message that I already had submitted the post. What are the chances those previous submissions will turn up eventually?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: johan555 on April 10, 2008, 11:07:44 AM
were was i today : ::MonkeyEek::
(http://s252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/th_IMG_2769kopie.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 11:11:49 AM
were was i today : ::MonkeyEek::
(http://s252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/th_IMG_2769kopie.jpg)

Johan - that's too small for me to make out what it is.  What is it?   ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 10, 2008, 11:14:32 AM
I just have a ?  Does anyone drink Red Bull energy drink?  Has anyone read where this stuff is made?  On the back of the can it says "Made In the Netherlands".  I do not drink this stuff, but my daughter came to pick up my granddaughter and was drinking one, she always is drinking this stuff.  I looked at the can and low and behold I could not believe what was written on the back.  I told her she had better quit drinking this stuff.


CBC MARKETPLACE: YOUR HEALTH ENERGY DRINKS
Raging Bull: Health warnings over popular energy drink being brushed off?
Broadcast: February 6, 2005


http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/files/health/redbull/index.html



I know of 2 people who had strokes, after imbibing too much of the stuff....I call it dead bull...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: johan555 on April 10, 2008, 11:19:24 AM
more pics here http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2669.320


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 10, 2008, 11:24:19 AM
*flotsam and jetsam from surfing*:

Thursday, February 07, 2008
Lorenzo Van Rijn is "Daury" says Aruban

Word on the streets in Aruba is that "Daury" is none other than one Lorenzo Van Rijn.

From a gal in Aruba, (name changed to protect her) Yes this is the word on the streets in Aruba,



2/05/08......XXXXXX(from Aruba) says:



I understand why Paulus van der sloot screwed the case. Because it's his son. I personally think Jorans goes free. THis case died 2 and half years ago. The authorities messed up everything since the beginning.People are covering eachother and are hidding evidence.

Maybe they had group sex natalee as victime. But something went terribly wrong. I don't think she died on the beach.There are a bunch of ppl involved even Steve gregory Croes a friend of them might be quilty also. Joran he's a porn freak just like Lorenzo. And alot of friends of joran are very f up youngsters. I feel sorry for Anita van der Sloot.

Joran couldn't do this on his own. A dead body is very heavy. I think his friends and maybe also his halfbrother Lorenzo helped him. Lorenzo van Rijn he's young 25+ years old. And has been involved in dirty business. He has a huge house with expensive cars close to the hotels. Besides that he sells partydrugs and owns a boat. He's no stranger to the aruben authorities. . I think the name Daury he mention is just a code name for one of his loveones.But I still think it's Lorenzo who helped him.

The above is straight from an Aruban girl.
Posted by wiseone at 1:18 AM


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: GBMW on April 10, 2008, 11:40:48 AM
Psssst...

a little birdie (pretty reliable...not 100%...about 80%....we haven't worked with the source that much) told us Joran is in Hong Kong at the moment...before this he was in Thailand.
RUMOUR: Joran was busted with softdrugs and needed to pay 5000 Euro to a corrupt policeman.
Joran is on his way from Hong Kong to Frankfurt (this is what Joran personally told the bird so we can't know for sure if it's true ;-)...). From there he's planning on coming back to the Netherlands by train.





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 10, 2008, 11:48:56 AM
I just have a ?  Does anyone drink Red Bull energy drink?  Has anyone read where this stuff is made?  On the back of the can it says "Made In the Netherlands".  I do not drink this stuff, but my daughter came to pick up my granddaughter and was drinking one, she always is drinking this stuff.  I looked at the can and low and behold I could not believe what was written on the back.  I told her she had better quit drinking this stuff.


CBC MARKETPLACE: YOUR HEALTH ENERGY DRINKS
Raging Bull: Health warnings over popular energy drink being brushed off?
Broadcast: February 6, 2005


http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/files/health/redbull/index.html



I know of 2 people who had strokes, after imbibing too much of the stuff....I call it dead bull...

Destiny ... I was thinking about dssmith's post when youngest son and wife dropped over last night.

While my DIL was attempting to organize my desktop Natalee  files ... I questioned my son about this drink.  I was shocked when he informed me that he and his wife share a similar drink called "Monster" prior to running early each morning (5:30 AM).  The caffeine content is even higher than "Red Bull".  These two ... for the most part ...  are very health conscious.  They both graduated with a human kenetic minor in university.  They do not drink alcohol, smoke and ... avoid even medicinal drugs unless necessary.

When I expressed concern ... my son told me that I was over-reacting.  I just backed off the topic but ... I don't get it.

Janet 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on April 10, 2008, 11:50:51 AM
Psssst...

a little birdie (pretty reliable...not 100%...about 80%....we haven't worked with the source that much) told us Joran is in Hong Kong at the moment...before this he was in Thailand.
RUMOUR: Joran was busted with softdrugs and needed to pay 5000 Euro to a corrupt policeman.
Joran is on his way from Hong Kong to Frankfurt (this is what Joran personally told the bird so we can't know for sure if it's true ;-)...). From there he's planning on coming back to the Netherlands by train.





johan555's relaying something different in the English/Dutch thread....mmmmm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 10, 2008, 12:04:54 PM
Psssst...

a little birdie (pretty reliable...not 100%...about 80%....we haven't worked with the source that much) told us Joran is in Hong Kong at the moment...before this he was in Thailand.
RUMOUR: Joran was busted with softdrugs and needed to pay 5000 Euro to a corrupt policeman.
Joran is on his way from Hong Kong to Frankfurt (this is what Joran personally told the bird so we can't know for sure if it's true ;-)...). From there he's planning on coming back to the Netherlands by train.





johan555's relaying something different in the English/Dutch thread....mmmmm

Oh...do share ;-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 10, 2008, 12:07:52 PM
I just have a ?  Does anyone drink Red Bull energy drink?  Has anyone read where this stuff is made?  On the back of the can it says "Made In the Netherlands".  I do not drink this stuff, but my daughter came to pick up my granddaughter and was drinking one, she always is drinking this stuff.  I looked at the can and low and behold I could not believe what was written on the back.  I told her she had better quit drinking this stuff.


CBC MARKETPLACE: YOUR HEALTH ENERGY DRINKS
Raging Bull: Health warnings over popular energy drink being brushed off?
Broadcast: February 6, 2005


http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/files/health/redbull/index.html



I know of 2 people who had strokes, after imbibing too much of the stuff....I call it dead bull...

Destiny ... I was thinking about dssmith's post when youngest son and wife dropped over last night.

While my DIL was attempting to organize my desktop Natalee  files ... I questioned my son about this drink.  I was shocked when he informed me that he and his wife share a similar drink called "Monster" prior to running early each morning (5:30 AM).  The caffeine content is even higher than "Red Bull".  These two ... for the most part ...  are very health conscious.  They both graduated with a human kenetic minor in university.  They do not drink alcohol, smoke and ... avoid even medicinal drugs unless necessary.

When I expressed concern ... my son told me that I was over-reacting.  I just backed off the topic but ... I don't get it.

Janet 

One of those 2 people...was my husband...his cardiac Dr. told him NO MORE red bulls....ever!  It took 6 months of physical therapy to get him back to norm...his speech is still, 2 years later...affected a little...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 12:12:46 PM
Psssst...

a little birdie (pretty reliable...not 100%...about 80%....we haven't worked with the source that much) told us Joran is in Hong Kong at the moment...before this he was in Thailand.
RUMOUR: Joran was busted with softdrugs and needed to pay 5000 Euro to a corrupt policeman.
Joran is on his way from Hong Kong to Frankfurt (this is what Joran personally told the bird so we can't know for sure if it's true ;-)...). From there he's planning on coming back to the Netherlands by train.





So does that mean he's not in a psych facility?   ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on April 10, 2008, 12:14:53 PM
Psssst...

a little birdie (pretty reliable...not 100%...about 80%....we haven't worked with the source that much) told us Joran is in Hong Kong at the moment...before this he was in Thailand.
RUMOUR: Joran was busted with softdrugs and needed to pay 5000 Euro to a corrupt policeman.
Joran is on his way from Hong Kong to Frankfurt (this is what Joran personally told the bird so we can't know for sure if it's true ;-)...). From there he's planning on coming back to the Netherlands by train.





johan555's relaying something different in the English/Dutch thread....mmmmm

Oh...do share ;-)

johan555 posted some pics and gave the link above...here it is again. 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2669.320

He spoke with someone that said Joran was in NL...who knows??? 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: crazybabyborg on April 10, 2008, 12:34:11 PM
Psssst...

a little birdie (pretty reliable...not 100%...about 80%....we haven't worked with the source that much) told us Joran is in Hong Kong at the moment...before this he was in Thailand.
RUMOUR: Joran was busted with softdrugs and needed to pay 5000 Euro to a corrupt policeman.
Joran is on his way from Hong Kong to Frankfurt (this is what Joran personally told the bird so we can't know for sure if it's true ;-)...). From there he's planning on coming back to the Netherlands by train.





So does that mean he's not in a psych facility?   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Either that or he's on one heck of a group field trip!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Hi Everybody!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 10, 2008, 12:36:34 PM
Hi cbb.

I missed ya.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: crazybabyborg on April 10, 2008, 12:49:00 PM
Thanks Janet! Good to see you, too!  ::MonkeyWink::


   (http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Wheres-Joran.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: GBMW on April 10, 2008, 12:58:40 PM
Psssst...

a little birdie (pretty reliable...not 100%...about 80%....we haven't worked with the source that much) told us Joran is in Hong Kong at the moment...before this he was in Thailand.
RUMOUR: Joran was busted with softdrugs and needed to pay 5000 Euro to a corrupt policeman.
Joran is on his way from Hong Kong to Frankfurt (this is what Joran personally told the bird so we can't know for sure if it's true ;-)...). From there he's planning on coming back to the Netherlands by train.





johan555's relaying something different in the English/Dutch thread....mmmmm

Oh...do share ;-)

I don't know what to think....there were rumours of him in Germany...but also a lot of him being in Thailand. The most recent ones are from him being in Thailand. And yeah...if it were only 3 or 4 e-mails I would doubt it also...but there were about 50 e-mails about Joran being in Thailand....but then again...who knows. I haven't seen pictures or anything.

Before the civil case thing started there were rumours about him being in a psych. center...but I doubt he would go there himself. After the announcement concerning the civil case was made there were a rumours about him being in the psych. center. But what judge would buy that? Unless he / his lawyers were expecting this and made the necessary arrangements right after the confessionshow.

Oh and I made a mistake...he had to pay the policeman 4000 Euros but he actually stole 5000 Euros (from an online account from somebody else...Joran had the access info). I just saw I forgot to mention this in my earlier post...yeah....mr. van der Sloot stole the money from someone else. Well...he borrowed the money without asking. He said he would return the money as soon as he was in Holland again....but borrowing without asking is stealing in my book....but that could be me ;-)

I don't have the latest info; I'm home now, have the day off tomorrow and won't be able to check in with a co-worker. A friend of the man Joran stole the money from wants him to press charges against Joran but the man doesn't know what to do. Again....for now this is all to be looked at as a rumour.

But if he is in a psych. center right now.....I do think at least he was in Thailand...I can't post the e-mails of course....sorry!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 01:04:11 PM
Thanks GBMW!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: crazybabyborg on April 10, 2008, 01:06:59 PM
The Thailand rumour is interesting. Thailand is well known to be a haven for the sexually depraved, and Joran should fit right in.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 10, 2008, 01:07:03 PM
Thanks GBMW!

Me too...me too....Thanks From me too!!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: crazybabyborg on April 10, 2008, 01:09:36 PM
Thanks GBMW!

Me too...me too....Thanks From me too!!!

Me Three, GBMW! Thank You!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: GBMW on April 10, 2008, 01:27:39 PM
The Thailand rumour is interesting. Thailand is well known to be a haven for the sexually depraved, and Joran should fit right in.

Mmmmm it's an old rumour...it wasn't posted here yet? But then again maybe it's an old rumour for the press in Holland and not so old for public forums ;-).

I don't have time to read every post and catch up everyday...if I had known I would have posted it earlier; sorry.

BTW: Deepak seems to live on Aruba (and indeed not in Miami)....at least a certain Deepak answered the phone ;-) .....but he didn't want to say anything (but was very friendly & polite).


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 10, 2008, 01:28:43 PM
Has there been any Aruban publication that has contradicted the April 3, 2008 article in Binnenland which reported that Joran was in a psychiatric institution?

Janet

+++++++++++


http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3705073/_Familie_Van_der_Sloot_gedagvaard__.html

Translation:

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #745 3/25
Reply #757 on: April 03, 2008, 12:11:21 PM

Entire Families Van der Sloot summoned

<snipped>

He has been held under treatment at the psychiatric institute in Altrecht.  On an open devision in Den Dolder he gets therapy for people who are stuck in everyday like "and are suffering from behavioral and psychiatric problems."

<snipped>

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2745.msg370419#msg370419


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dayhiker on April 10, 2008, 01:37:03 PM

I don't know what to think....there were rumours of him in Germany...but also a lot of him being in Thailand. The most recent ones are from him being in Thailand. And yeah...if it were only 3 or 4 e-mails I would doubt it also...but there were about 50 e-mails about Joran being in Thailand....but then again...who knows. I haven't seen pictures or anything.

Before the civil case thing started there were rumours about him being in a psych. center...but I doubt he would go there himself. After the announcement concerning the civil case was made there were a rumours about him being in the psych. center. But what judge would buy that? Unless he / his lawyers were expecting this and made the necessary arrangements right after the confessionshow.

Oh and I made a mistake...he had to pay the policeman 4000 Euros but he actually stole 5000 Euros (from an online account from somebody else...Joran had the access info). I just saw I forgot to mention this in my earlier post...yeah....mr. van der Sloot stole the money from someone else. Well...he borrowed the money without asking. He said he would return the money as soon as he was in Holland again....but borrowing without asking is stealing in my book....but that could be me ;-)

I don't have the latest info; I'm home now, have the day off tomorrow and won't be able to check in with a co-worker. A friend of the man Joran stole the money from wants him to press charges against Joran but the man doesn't know what to do. Again....for now this is all to be looked at as a rumour.

But if he is in a psych. center right now.....I do think at least he was in Thailand...I can't post the e-mails of course....sorry!


Great post as always GBMW! Thanks for bringing us so much info from across the pond.

Here's what gets me about the Thailand thing. Joran has no means of income and his parents would be absolute lunatics to pay for  him to travel alone after all the damage he's done to himself. Are they that stupid? They can't trust him as far as they can throw him and judging from that beach video neither of his parents have done any heavy lifting lately.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dayhiker on April 10, 2008, 01:38:58 PM
The Thailand rumour is interesting. Thailand is well known to be a haven for the sexually depraved, and Joran should fit right in.

Mmmmm it's an old rumour...it wasn't posted here yet? But then again maybe it's an old rumour for the press in Holland and not so old for public forums ;-).

I don't have time to read every post and catch up everyday...if I had known I would have posted it earlier; sorry.

BTW: Deepak seems to live on Aruba (and indeed not in Miami)....at least a certain Deepak answered the phone ;-) .....but he didn't want to say anything (but was very friendly & polite).


Deepak knows he's a goner if he leaves the island. Aruba mafia would snuff him out before he could blink.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: johan555 on April 10, 2008, 01:40:24 PM
5 years later :
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/Drugspatient-Joran.jpg?t=1207849050)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dayhiker on April 10, 2008, 01:43:48 PM
Wow, Daury had 8 kilos.. he's a major playah!!! That's alotta smack! How could someone transport that much "H" on their body? He must have been stashing it in his luggage or had some other scheme.

He's looking at a lot of time here. If he knows anything about Natalee, he better be barking from the rafters or he's gone . . . looks like this could be a life sentence.


You ain't woofin' bruddah. That much scag will get you locked up here for a looooong time. You're right, he'd better hope he knows something about Natalee going missing so he has a bargaining chip.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Dayhiker on April 10, 2008, 01:44:48 PM
5 years later :
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/Drugspatient-Joran.jpg?t=1207849050)



LOL Johan! ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 10, 2008, 01:47:16 PM
5 years later :
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/Drugspatient-Joran.jpg?t=1207849050)

Just waiting for Mr. Pink to pick *herm* up... ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: wreck on April 10, 2008, 01:51:04 PM
Wasn't that creepy "Martin" guy from Thailand (home of permitted underage sex)????? ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: bleachedblack on April 10, 2008, 01:51:52 PM
Maybe there really exists an Aruba/Joran/ Marten connection, and maybe Joran checked out of the German version of Lindsay Lohan rehab and headed over to Chiang Mai to continue his film career.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: GBMW on April 10, 2008, 01:54:51 PM

I don't know what to think....there were rumours of him in Germany...but also a lot of him being in Thailand. The most recent ones are from him being in Thailand. And yeah...if it were only 3 or 4 e-mails I would doubt it also...but there were about 50 e-mails about Joran being in Thailand....but then again...who knows. I haven't seen pictures or anything.

Before the civil case thing started there were rumours about him being in a psych. center...but I doubt he would go there himself. After the announcement concerning the civil case was made there were a rumours about him being in the psych. center. But what judge would buy that? Unless he / his lawyers were expecting this and made the necessary arrangements right after the confessionshow.

Oh and I made a mistake...he had to pay the policeman 4000 Euros but he actually stole 5000 Euros (from an online account from somebody else...Joran had the access info). I just saw I forgot to mention this in my earlier post...yeah....mr. van der Sloot stole the money from someone else. Well...he borrowed the money without asking. He said he would return the money as soon as he was in Holland again....but borrowing without asking is stealing in my book....but that could be me ;-)

I don't have the latest info; I'm home now, have the day off tomorrow and won't be able to check in with a co-worker. A friend of the man Joran stole the money from wants him to press charges against Joran but the man doesn't know what to do. Again....for now this is all to be looked at as a rumour.

But if he is in a psych. center right now.....I do think at least he was in Thailand...I can't post the e-mails of course....sorry!


Great post as always GBMW! Thanks for bringing us so much info from across the pond.

Here's what gets me about the Thailand thing. Joran has no means of income and his parents would be absolute lunatics to pay for  him to travel alone after all the damage he's done to himself. Are they that stupid? They can't trust him as far as they can throw him and judging from that beach video neither of his parents have done any heavy lifting lately.


I think Joran is officially still a student in the Netherlands (not sure)...if he is, he does get  a small amount of money (about 225 Euros...his parents have too much income to get more) per month from the state. Patrick has stated he spends a lot of money..and he hasn't had a parttime job (as far as I know) so he must get some money from playing poker?
Thailand / Asia is very cheap....food / drinks / staying there doesn't cost a lot...the ticket going there is expensive though.....maybe his parents did give him some money (maybe just for a planeticket) to get away from the Netherlands because of the death threats? Maybe the Dutch state even sponsored a certain amount of money (wouldn't surprise me) so he could hide.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 10, 2008, 02:00:51 PM
I am still confused as to when Daury R. was arrested in the USA?  Help?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 02:11:11 PM
I am still confused as to when Daury R. was arrested in the USA?  Help?

The initial report that came out a couple days ago said that Daury had already been in custody for about a month.  We really don't know for sure.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 10, 2008, 02:17:39 PM
So it is possible that he was arrested late February or the first of March?  Thanks Klaas.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 02:24:48 PM
So it is possible that he was arrested late February or the first of March?  Thanks Klaas.

Yes, I'd say early March but who really knows for sure.  I'm hoping Red can get a full translation of Jossy's article.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 02:27:08 PM
Posted by MF at RU regarding Daury's arrest in the US:

His name was mentioned in a case where a house was raided in New Jersey apparantly and drugs found. His arrest was asked by the police and when he entered the US, he was detained.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 02:38:32 PM
Posted by MF at RU regarding Daury's arrest in the US:

His name was mentioned in a case where a house was raided in New Jersey apparantly and drugs found. His arrest was asked by the police and when he entered the US, he was detained.

Found this but haven't been able to come up with the full article yet:

Police arrest alleged heroin, cocaine dealer

Posted 03/07/2008 by Worrall Community Newspapers
ROSELLE, NJ - A joint effort between Roselle, Linden and county law enforcement officers led to the arrest of a suspected cocaine and heroin peddler, according to borough police Capt. Gary Ricardelli.

 
http://www.coolerads.com/news_details/news,5699


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 10, 2008, 02:47:15 PM
So it is possible that he was arrested late February or the first of March?  Thanks Klaas.

 *segun fbi, daury know more of desaparicion of natalee

 oranjestad (aan): informacion confiable cu daily paper owing to achieve for of merca is cu daury that some time happen owing to worde deteni at merca, as daily paper owing to publica yesterday, is worde sospecha of posesion of 8 kilo of heroin. the acusacion is tell posesion with the intention to distribute, then the is worde acusa of posesion of the heroin, cu intencion of trafica. according the informacion, the acusacion is of january year happen, where cu autoridadnan mericano owing to look at the in*

BTW...I'm searching the NY inmate status records....Is Daury a version of David?

TIA Des


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: katrien on April 10, 2008, 02:48:04 PM
A bit late, but... Henk Strootman wrote... ::MonkeyCool::

http://misdaad.aktueel.nu/daury_en_bindi.html

The part about bindi is not interesting for Natalee.

this is a rough translation:


Quote
We now know that Daury Rodriquez is in an American prison for doing drugs. But the question whether he is also interesting for the Holloway team is not answered yet. The Aruban OM Spokeswoman Ann Angelo was in my opinion a bit vague about this question.

On my question whether the police are going to hear him in the American cell she answered: I dont know. She also said: he is not a suspect at the moment. This kind of sentences I have heard before, for instance when I asked the OM two years ago whether someone called Hans L. was being watched in relation to the disappearance of his wife. No, he is not a suspect for us at this moment  they answered then. A week later he was in prison. Thats the way it goes in information service land.  I remember a statement of  the Dutch Justice Minister Korthals Altes claiming: The harder they try to deny something, the bigger the change that it is true.

What I told a few days ago about the man with the boat is from a very reliable source. More I cannot say about it. I cant imagine my source just told me something, thats not like him.
 Besides that, I never wrote Daury was a suspect in the case, I just mentioned that he is interesting for the team because he could be the man of the little boat and that the police like to talk to him. International request are needed and that can take some time, especially in the USA.

What I miss in the news about Daury Rodriquez (he was supposed to be in Rotterdam by the time Natalee disappeared) is, is whether his alibi is very well checked. I do not think so and this could be the reason the Holloway-team wants to talk with him. I hope to bring more news in the future, so stay tuned.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 02:48:19 PM
Soooo......everyone on two continents is blaming poor lil Daury for all their problems... tooo funnnny!!! ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 02:51:19 PM
Sorry. No Inmate Named DAURY RODRIGUEZ Race: unspecified Sex: unspecified found.

http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/LocateInmate.jsp

I'll try something else.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: MumInOhio on April 10, 2008, 02:54:21 PM
Posted by MF at RU regarding Daury's arrest in the US:

His name was mentioned in a case where a house was raided in New Jersey apparantly and drugs found. His arrest was asked by the police and when he entered the US, he was detained.

Found this but haven't been able to come up with the full article yet:

Police arrest alleged heroin, cocaine dealer

Posted 03/07/2008 by Worrall Community Newspapers
ROSELLE, NJ - A joint effort between Roselle, Linden and county law enforcement officers led to the arrest of a suspected cocaine and heroin peddler, according to borough police Capt. Gary Ricardelli.

 
http://www.coolerads.com/news_details/news,5699


Strange I couldn't get the full article either????


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 10, 2008, 02:56:19 PM
Sorry. No Inmate Named DAURY RODRIGUEZ Race: unspecified Sex: unspecified found.

http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/LocateInmate.jsp

I'll try something else.

All my requests submitted...gave me results for 4 active imates with the name of DAVID RODRIGUEZ.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 02:58:21 PM
So it is possible that he was arrested late February or the first of March?  Thanks Klaas.

 *segun fbi, daury know more of desaparicion of natalee

 oranjestad (aan): informacion confiable cu daily paper owing to achieve for of merca is cu daury that some time happen owing to worde deteni at merca, as daily paper owing to publica yesterday, is worde sospecha of posesion of 8 kilo of heroin. the acusacion is tell posesion with the intention to distribute, then the is worde acusa of posesion of the heroin, cu intencion of trafica. according the informacion, the acusacion is of january year happen, where cu autoridadnan mericano owing to look at the in*

BTW...I'm searching the NY inmate status records....Is Daury a version of David?

TIA Des

Daury could NOT have been arrested in the US in January, he was on TV about Joran's confession in February  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 02:58:47 PM
He's probably not showing up on the Federal list because he has not been convicted of a crime (yet) and is not actually in a Federal prison, but is most likely in a Federal detention center awaiting the next move by the prosecutors.

The Federal list looks quite detailed and even shows inmates in transit. If he was there, it would probably be revealed on the site.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: MumInOhio on April 10, 2008, 02:59:16 PM
Posted by MF at RU regarding Daury's arrest in the US:

His name was mentioned in a case where a house was raided in New Jersey apparantly and drugs found. His arrest was asked by the police and when he entered the US, he was detained.

Found this but haven't been able to come up with the full article yet:

Police arrest alleged heroin, cocaine dealer

Posted 03/07/2008 by Worrall Community Newspapers
ROSELLE, NJ - A joint effort between Roselle, Linden and county law enforcement officers led to the arrest of a suspected cocaine and heroin peddler, according to borough police Capt. Gary Ricardelli.

 
http://www.coolerads.com/news_details/news,5699


Strange I couldn't get the full article either????


Some-one want to look here...there is a few from Roselle that are page not found and had to go through the cached to get this

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:W6TJzokvenEJ:www.scpo.net/media.htm+roselle+New+jersey+heroin+arrests+january+2008&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 03:01:21 PM
Sorry. No Inmate Named DAURY RODRIGUEZ Race: unspecified Sex: unspecified found.

http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/LocateInmate.jsp

I'll try something else.

All my requests submitted...gave me results for 4 active imates with the name of DAVID RODRIGUEZ.

My guess is Daury would not be in an actual prison yet.  He's being detained at the local jail or some DEA/FBI facility, IMO.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 03:02:20 PM
Klaas, on Feb 4th 2008 Daury Rodriguez made this statement and I posted it on my blog. It's most likely he made the statement on 2-3-2008.

"Im shocked and angry, I was in Rotterdam at school at the time. What Joran is saying is bullshit".

Grande found him on the 4th and was talking to him, so he was not in jail then.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: MumInOhio on April 10, 2008, 03:02:24 PM
Klaas...I found 2 for 1/30/2005, but the page is not found.  Strange!!!!

Roswell...I think and Manville NJ


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: MumInOhio on April 10, 2008, 03:03:55 PM
Klaas...I found 2 for 1/30/2005, but the page is not found.  Strange!!!!

Roswell...I think and Manville NJ


Edit2008


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 03:04:22 PM
Sorry. No Inmate Named DAURY RODRIGUEZ Race: unspecified Sex: unspecified found.

http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/LocateInmate.jsp

I'll try something else.

All my requests submitted...gave me results for 4 active imates with the name of DAVID RODRIGUEZ.

My guess is Daury would not be in an actual prison yet.  He's being detained at the local jail or some DEA/FBI facility, IMO.

I found 56 David Rodriguezs  ::MonkeyTongue:: and all were white except one guy that was black. Not even sure what race Daury would be considered... maybe Indian???? ...> no clue.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 03:09:49 PM
Klaas...I found 2 for 1/30/2005, but the page is not found.  Strange!!!!

Roswell...I think and Manville NJ

Has to be AFTER February 4, 2008


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 03:10:44 PM
Klaas...I found 2 for 1/30/2005, but the page is not found.  Strange!!!!

Roswell...I think and Manville NJ

Has to be AFTER February 4, 2008

Actually, the raid on the home in NJ could have been prior to 2/4/08 and his arrest after.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: bleachedblack on April 10, 2008, 03:12:25 PM
Klaas went you have a moment could you please edit in Missing Persons Vincent Lettieri BODY FOUND Thank you


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 10, 2008, 03:13:40 PM
Sorry. No Inmate Named DAURY RODRIGUEZ Race: unspecified Sex: unspecified found.

http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/LocateInmate.jsp

I'll try something else.

All my requests submitted...gave me results for 4 active imates with the name of DAVID RODRIGUEZ.

My guess is Daury would not be in an actual prison yet.  He's being detained at the local jail or some DEA/FBI facility, IMO.

I found 56 David Rodriguezs  ::MonkeyTongue:: and all were white except one guy that was black. Not even sure what race Daury would be considered... maybe Indian???? ...> no clue.

Rob...I know what's wrong...we should be typing in Paulus van der Sloot...LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 03:15:00 PM
Sorry. No Inmate Named DAURY RODRIGUEZ Race: unspecified Sex: unspecified found.

http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/LocateInmate.jsp

I'll try something else.

All my requests submitted...gave me results for 4 active imates with the name of DAVID RODRIGUEZ.

My guess is Daury would not be in an actual prison yet.  He's being detained at the local jail or some DEA/FBI facility, IMO.

I found 56 David Rodriguezs  ::MonkeyTongue:: and all were white except one guy that was black. Not even sure what race Daury would be considered... maybe Indian???? ...> no clue.

Rob...I know what's wrong...we should be typing in Paulus van der Sloot...LOL

OMG!!!!! ROFLMAO!!!

Good One Des!!!! Good One...  ::MonkeyLaugh::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 10, 2008, 03:19:04 PM
3 Recent *large heroin busts*...full stories

http://search.nj.com/sp?keywords=large+heroin+bust&t=s&sDir=asc&sId=0&aff=100


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: MumInOhio on April 10, 2008, 03:21:03 PM
Klaas...I found 2 for 1/30/2005, but the page is not found.  Strange!!!!

Roswell...I think and Manville NJ

Has to be AFTER February 4, 2008

Actually, the raid on the home in NJ could have been prior to 2/4/08 and his arrest after.

Those 2 are Jan 30th. Roselle and Manville - this one distribution

Wonder if their site is hacked!..Think it was Somerset County


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 10, 2008, 03:24:56 PM
JORAN'S WITNESS STATEMENT - MAY 31, 2005

In February, 2008 ... if Jug and Beth's contentions were that Dennis Jacobs had interrogated them both on June 1, 2005 in regards to "seizures" and ... Joran was claiming in the Devries' video recording that Natalee was "shaking" ... I would assume that the Hans Mos would have presented Joran's May 31, 2005 signed  witness statement to the ruling three judge panel ... the May 31, 2005 signed witness statement which Joran refers to in his June 9, 2005 suspect statement .... the May 31, 2005 signed witness statement which Paulus refers to in his June 23, 2005 suspect statement.

If Joran's May 31, 2005 witness statement was not or could not have been presented to the judges in February, 2008 for their consideration when deciding whether or not to detain Joran ...

Sometimes I could just scream!!

Janet

++++++++++++


February 15, 2008
Court of Appeal upholds lower judges decision not to detain J.v.d.S.
J.v.d.S remains prime suspect
Judicial investigation continues


The Court of Appeal announced by the end of yesterday, February 14th, 2008, its decision to uphold the refusal by the investigating judge to order pre-trial detention of J.v.d.S. in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The Office of the Public Prosecutor had requested such an order after the Peter R de Vries-tapes had been received by the Office and had been evaluated. Last week the Office appealed the ruling of refusal by the judge.

The reasons underlying the Courts decision are the following. The Court has seen the visual materials, has listened to the audio materials and has inspected the verbatim reports. Based on that, the Court is of the opinion that there is a lack of sufficient facts and circumstances substantiating serious grounds for the suspicion of the suspects involvement in the crimes for which he is being held responsible by the prosecution. The Court will generally be a bit more hesitant when it has to decide on a new request for pre-trial detention of a suspect, when that same suspect has been detained repeatedly before and there has been a considerable lapse of time.

J.v.d.S. has given extensive and detailed statements in Patrick van der Eems car, the undercover citizen who worked for Peter R. de Vries, on what happened during the night of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Nevertheless the Court sees various reasons not to accept the serious grounds of suspicion which are statutorily required for pre-trial detention. One of them is the history of contradictory statements by J.v.d.S., which were belied repeatedly by objective findings.

At this moment those parts of the statements made in Van der Eems car which contain new elements are not being underpinned by objective findings. Considering the possibility of a serious personality disorder as voiced by the prosecution combined with a personal history of untrue statements and remarks, which even according to the suspect himself are frequently false, the Court of Appeal has reasons for doubt regarding the incriminating character of the car-statements.

On the pre-trial detention issue the Code of criminal procedure does not provide for further appeals. The effect of the Court decision is that J.v.d.S. cannot be (re)arrested. The investigation of the Natalee Holloway case continues. J.v.d.S. is again the prime suspect.

At the end of the investigation the Office of the Public Prosecution will decide whether to charge or not.


Beth Twitty
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
September 14, 2005


TWITTY: Well, Rita, like I said, weve been worried as early as June 1 when we saw torn statements at a police station. Weve had falsified documents. I mean, weve seen key elements omitted from uniformed police officers statements. Weve had a D.E.A. whose statement was never taken.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9354188/


Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE
Page 76


The detective takes a seat at his desk and sorts through some papers before getting ready to type at his computer keyboard.  It's quiet.  I am very cold, waiting for him to begin.  As I stare at the torn documents on the table, the words Joran van der Sloot jump right off one of the ripped pager at me and pierce my eyes.  It's Joran's witness statement, torn up, lying in plain view.   So he has been here.  He has given his statement.  It has been destroyed for some reason.  Did he change his mind?   Can you even do that?  Did someone come along and decide it wasn't in Joran's best interest to go on record about what happened to Natalee?  I wonder if the father, Paulus, has been here.  It's disarming.  And I have so many questions about this pile of torn papers.  But I don't know enough about law -- certainly not Dutch law -- to underatand what it might mean to destroy a witness statement.


Joran van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 9, 2005


May 31, 2005

Then my father explained to Bob that I had been the last person that was seen with the girl and that I had to go and make a statement to the police.  At approximately 11.15 am my father and me left the school grounds and we went to the police station in Bubali.

... At approximately 16.00 pm, we were finished at the police station in Bubali.  


Paulus Van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 23, 2005


May 31, 2005

... We then departed for the police station in Bubali where we
arrived at approximately 11.00 hours. Jacobs and Kelly took down Joran's statement.

... At approximately 14.00 hours Joran signed his statement ...


John Kelly
On the Record w/ Greta
February 20, 2008


KELLY:  Let me throw one more thing in on that Greta.  On May 31st, Joran was the first person interviewed by Jacobs when he's taking statements. Every police report subsequent to that, the statements made by Deepak, made by Satish, made by Beth that day, we have them all, there is no statement from Joran until June 9th.
Transcript: Heli (RU)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Twi7-8OqS4

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2629.msg353920;topicseen#msg353920


Beth Holloway
On the Record w/ Greta
February 7, 2008


VAN SUSTEREN: Do you think, if the Aruban police asked that question within 48 hours of Natalee disappearing, and now we hear it on the tape with Joran two-and-a-half or three-and-a-half years later, whatever it is by now do you think the Aruban police heard him say that? Do you think he told that to the Aruban police that night when they talked to him?

HOLLOWAY: I have absolutely no doubt that the only reason why that question was asked of us was they had a confession or an admission of this from Joran Van Der Sloot himself. So definitely. There is no way that we cannot tie what Joran said you know, no way that we cannot tie when Joran said during that taped interview to what was asked of us from Dennis Jacobs not within 48 hours. Absolutely. Absolutely, they knew.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,329348,00.html


Beth Holloway
DATELINE
February 23, 2008


Beth Holloway: The facts are within 48 hours of Natalee's disappearance, a lead detective asked me if she had a history of epilepsy or seizures. Two and a half years later, the main suspect himself, admits that Natalee -- he felt as if she suffered an epilepsy or seizure. And he even indicates how she's shaking. So, if we look at just that one-- just that one piece, that's one thread out of a lot. Then, I have to say yes, there definitely was some collusion and corruption going on in the early days of Natalee's disappearance. Absolutely.
 
However, according to the prosecutor's office it's standard procedure to ask if a missing person might have a seizure disorder.

Police and prosecution officials declined on-camera interviews, but have consistently denied that there was any corruption, collusion or mishandling of the investigation.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/6/


Jug Twitty
NANCY GRACE
February 15, 2008


HUGHES: Well, Jug, my heart goes out to you and your family. I`m so sorry for this tragedy. You mentioned a little earlier that you think this has been a cover-up and a conspiracy from the very beginning. Can you just let our viewers know a couple of examples that makes you feel that way?

TWITTY: Well, I mean, I`ve said it several times, you know, to go over it again, but in the beginning, you know, they ask us questions about the epilepsy and everything, which you wouldn`t normally ask somebody that right out of the chute. So they knew like the second night that she probably wasn`t alive.

And then, just like all the stuff like when all the people that were there, all the people that came with me to help, they never even questioned us for two weeks. If they wanted an answer, they could have got a lot of the answers about the deal about the 4:00 in the morning when he said he picked him up at McDonald`s. There were a lot of those answers there that they could have had if they wanted them. And just I think they got in it early to, you know, cover up, and they just had to cover their tracks all the way through.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/15/ng.01.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 03:26:33 PM
3 Recent *large heroin busts*...full stories

http://search.nj.com/sp?keywords=large+heroin+bust&t=s&sDir=asc&sId=0&aff=100

Could just be a coincidence but a possible relative?  My thought is the drug raid went down and someone squealed giving up Daury's name.  Daury might have been coming to the US for an interview after Joran's confession tape.  DEA put out an order to have him arrested if he entered the US:


http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2008/01/3_elizabeth_drug_networks_shut.html

3 Elizabeth drug networks shut down, authorities say
by Jonathan Casiano/The Star-Ledger
Thursday January 24, 2008, 3:53 PM
Three longtime Elizabeth drug networks were taken down early this morning in a series of busts that netted cash, guns and large quantities of heroin and cocaine, authorities said.

Dubbed "Operation Old School" because its main targets had been peddling wholesale drugs in the city for years, the investigation focused on complaints of heavy drug dealing around a city park and a public housing complex near the Goethals Bridge.

Today's raids brought in a dozen alleged dealers and drugs worth more than $200,000 on the street, an amount authorities say the dealers would have turned around in less than a week.


"These particular operations have been going on for years," said Union County Prosecutor Theodore Romankow. "Some of the individuals we're talking about have been around for 20 years."

The three alleged main suppliers are Curtis Neal, 36, of Perth Amboy, Anibal Rodriguez, 31, of Easton, Pa., and Anthony Hopson, 33, of Elizabeth. Authorities say the men ran three distinct drug operations, but were together responsible for pumping a steady stream of cocaine and heroin into the area around Jefferson Park and the Mravlag Manor housing complex.

Read more in Friday's Star-Ledger.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 03:29:22 PM
    Name     Register
Number    Age    Race    Sex    Release Date
 Actual  /  Projected    Location
                        
1.    ANIBAL RODRIGUEZ    41914-004    50    White    M    03-03-1995         RELEASED
                        
2.    ANIBAL TRISTAN RODRIGUEZ    37273-177    33    White    M         UNKNOWN    IN TRANSIT


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 03:32:18 PM
   Name     Register
Number    Age    Race    Sex    Release Date
 Actual  /  Projected    Location
                        
1.    ANIBAL RODRIGUEZ    41914-004    50    White    M    03-03-1995         RELEASED
                        
2.    ANIBAL TRISTAN RODRIGUEZ    37273-177    33    White    M         UNKNOWN    IN TRANSIT

I think it could be the second one... it says in transit. He's a former inmate and might be on probation and that could have been revoked with this arrest. He might be remanded to the Fed Lock-up.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 03:35:36 PM
not finding an Anibal Rodriguez on Aruba.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 03:36:52 PM
3 Recent *large heroin busts*...full stories

http://search.nj.com/sp?keywords=large+heroin+bust&t=s&sDir=asc&sId=0&aff=100

Could just be a coincidence but a possible relative?  My thought is the drug raid went down and someone squealed giving up Daury's name.  Daury might have been coming to the US for an interview after Joran's confession tape.  DEA put out an order to have him arrested if he entered the US:


http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2008/01/3_elizabeth_drug_networks_shut.html



3 Elizabeth drug networks shut down, authorities say
by Jonathan Casiano/The Star-Ledger
Thursday January 24, 2008, 3:53 PM
Three longtime Elizabeth drug networks were taken down early this morning in a series of busts that netted cash, guns and large quantities of heroin and cocaine, authorities said.

Dubbed "Operation Old School" because its main targets had been peddling wholesale drugs in the city for years, the investigation focused on complaints of heavy drug dealing around a city park and a public housing complex near the Goethals Bridge.

Today's raids brought in a dozen alleged dealers and drugs worth more than $200,000 on the street, an amount authorities say the dealers would have turned around in less than a week.


"These particular operations have been going on for years," said Union County Prosecutor Theodore Romankow. "Some of the individuals we're talking about have been around for 20 years."

The three alleged main suppliers are Curtis Neal, 36, of Perth Amboy, Anibal Rodriguez, 31, of Easton, Pa., and Anthony Hopson, 33, of Elizabeth. Authorities say the men ran three distinct drug operations, but were together responsible for pumping a steady stream of cocaine and heroin into the area around Jefferson Park and the Mravlag Manor housing complex.

Read more in Friday's Star-Ledger.



http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/states/newsrel/nwk012408.html

For Immediate Release:
Thursday, January 24, 2008
For further Information Contact:
Special Agent Douglas S. Collier,
Public Information Officer
TEL: (973) 776-1143
CEL: (862) 849-9833

DEA, HIDTA, Union County, Elizabeth, Hillside, Linden PDs Together Execute Operation: Old School

JAN 24 -- (Newark, NJ) - Gerard P. McAleer, Special Agent in Charge of the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) New Jersey Division, and Union County Prosecutor Theodore J. Romankow announced today the dismantling of three (3) distinct illegal narcotics enterprises in the City of Elizabeth, New Jersey. This was a seven month investigation which resulted in 18 individuals arrested facing both state and federal charges.

The investigation focused on the mid-level dealers who provide the link between the upper-level dealers who imported illegal narcotics into the country and the street-level dealers who peddle it on corners of crime-ridden neighborhoods.

The most recent arrests occurred this morning when at 5:45 a.m. over 100 police officers from 7 different law enforcement agencies, including 5 SWAT teams, conducted simultaneous raids on 8 locations in Elizabeth. Eleven people were arrested, 4 guns confiscated and heroin with an approximate street value of $116,000+, cocaine with a street value of $100,000 and $15,300 in cash were seized. The 400 grams of heroin seized was in a pure form and requires laboratory analysis to determine its degree of purity. Including the arrests and seizures that occurred in October, December and early January as part of the same investigation, the total amount of seizures rises to $203,500+ worth of heroin (street value), $100,000 worth of cocaine (street value), $30,500 in cash and 4 guns with a total of 19 people arrested.

According to Gerard P. McAleer, Special Agent in Charge of the DEAs New Jersey Division, This investigation knows no boundaries. It extends beyond Elizabeth, beyond Union County and beyond New Jersey. We will continue to investigate this to the source country.

Anibal Rodriguez street-level dealers were also identified and charged. Charged are his brother, Alniva Julio Rodriguez, Lamont Long, Rocky Lyles, Craig Pearson, Barry Warren and Dijuant Williams.

Two of Rodriguez suppliers have also been identified as Curtis Neal of Perthy Amboy, and Ramon Reyes were arrested and charged in December when they purchased 150 bricks of heroin (7500 individual bags) from a New York supplier. That heroin had a street value of $75,000. The man from New York from whom he purchased the drugs has also been arrested and charged. Neal and Reyes are currently facing federal charges.

One of Rodriguez street-level dealers is identified as Rocky Lyles. Lyles was arrested and charged in October, 2007 after he attempted to retrieve the jacket of a three-year-old girl from a day care center in Elizabeth. The jacket belonged to the daughter of Lyles girlfriend. The child had already handed the 27 bags of heroin she found in her pocket to her teacher who alerted police. Among other things, Lyles is charged with endangering the welfare of a minor.

Karnell Wilson has also been identified as a supplier for Anibal Rodriguez. Wilson is part of an organization centered around Anthony Hopson. This organization provides heroin primarily to the area of Jackson Avenue and Bond Street and Jefferson Park in Elizabeth. Hopson is joined by his nephew, Khiah Hopson originally from Georgia who acts as his right-hand man. Wilson and Anthony and Khiah Hopson supplied and shared suppliers with other mid-level drug dealers inside and outside of Elizabeth. Some of their customers include Robert Bobby Franklin, Ryshane Graves and Manuel Veras---all of whom have been arrested and charged.

This investigation involved the cooperation of several agencies besides the others already mentioned. These include: Newark Police Department, the U.S. Marshals Service and officers from various local police departments throughout the state who are assigned temporarily to the DEAs High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area Task Force.

Despite these charges every defendant is presumed innocent, unless and until found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, following a trial at which the defendant has all of the trial rights guaranteed by the United States Constitution and State law.





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 10, 2008, 03:42:19 PM
Then there is Freddy's sixth and seventh witness statements.

In February, 2008 did Hans Mos present the three judge panel with Freddie's sixth and seventh statements where Joran ... in own words ... reveals that Freddy's words concur with his words in the Devries video recording which pertain to "shaking."

Janet

++++++++++

February 15, 2008
Court of Appeal upholds lower judges decision not to detain J.v.d.S.
J.v.d.S remains prime suspect
Judicial investigation continues


The Court of Appeal announced by the end of yesterday, February 14th, 2008, its decision to uphold the refusal by the investigating judge to order pre-trial detention of J.v.d.S. in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The Office of the Public Prosecutor had requested such an order after the Peter R de Vries-tapes had been received by the Office and had been evaluated. Last week the Office appealed the ruling of refusal by the judge.

The reasons underlying the Courts decision are the following. The Court has seen the visual materials, has listened to the audio materials and has inspected the verbatim reports. Based on that, the Court is of the opinion that there is a lack of sufficient facts and circumstances substantiating serious grounds for the suspicion of the suspects involvement in the crimes for which he is being held responsible by the prosecution. The Court will generally be a bit more hesitant when it has to decide on a new request for pre-trial detention of a suspect, when that same suspect has been detained repeatedly before and there has been a considerable lapse of time.

J.v.d.S. has given extensive and detailed statements in Patrick van der Eems car, the undercover citizen who worked for Peter R. de Vries, on what happened during the night of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Nevertheless the Court sees various reasons not to accept the serious grounds of suspicion which are statutorily required for pre-trial detention. One of them is the history of contradictory statements by J.v.d.S., which were belied repeatedly by objective findings.

At this moment those parts of the statements made in Van der Eems car which contain new elements are not being underpinned by objective findings. Considering the possibility of a serious personality disorder as voiced by the prosecution combined with a personal history of untrue statements and remarks, which even according to the suspect himself are frequently false, the Court of Appeal has reasons for doubt regarding the incriminating character of the car-statements.

On the pre-trial detention issue the Code of criminal procedure does not provide for further appeals. The effect of the Court decision is that J.v.d.S. cannot be (re)arrested. The investigation of the Natalee Holloway case continues. J.v.d.S. is again the prime suspect.

At the end of the investigation the Office of the Public Prosecution will decide whether to charge or not.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2605.msg350819;topicseen#msg350819


Joran van der Sloot
De Zaak Natalee Holloway
Page 160/161


After Freddy's second statement on June 13th at 18:30, in which he keeps insisting that I told him the first story already on May 30th, the police confront us as best friends with each other.  Some further statements follow after that.  In the end Freddy states in his 6th and 7th statements that I have told him that Natalee went unconscious several times and did not regain consciousness at a certain moment, that I tried to wake her up by shaking her but that but this also did not work.Unofficial Engish translation


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 03:42:36 PM
not finding an Anibal Rodriguez on Aruba.

found one in Puerto Rico

http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/A202P79PDLETZ9

one in Florida
federal assistance program
http://www.fedspending.org/faads/faads.php?recip_id=646267&detail=-1

Top 10 Recipients
NORMA S & ANIBAL RODRIGUEZ   $17,800

 
Recipient Type
Individuals   $17,800
Nonprofits   $0
Other   $0
Higher Education   $0
Government   $0
For Profits   $0

 
Assistance Type
Loans (both direct and guaranteed)   $17,800
Other   $0
Insurance   $0
Grants and Cooperative Agreements   $0
Direct Payments (both specified and unrestricted)

-another one associated with a music band

and then there is this

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/states/newsrel/nwk012408.html

News Release [print friendly page]
For Immediate Release:
Thursday, January 24, 2008
For further Information Contact:
Special Agent Douglas S. Collier,
Public Information Officer
TEL: (973) 776-1143
CEL: (862) 849-9833

DEA, HIDTA, Union County, Elizabeth, Hillside, Linden PDs Together Execute Operation: Old School

JAN 24 -- (Newark, NJ) - Gerard P. McAleer, Special Agent in Charge of the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) New Jersey Division, and Union County Prosecutor Theodore J. Romankow announced today the dismantling of three (3) distinct illegal narcotics enterprises in the City of Elizabeth, New Jersey. This was a seven month investigation which resulted in 18 individuals arrested facing both state and federal charges.

The investigation focused on the mid-level dealers who provide the link between the upper-level dealers who imported illegal narcotics into the country and the street-level dealers who peddle it on corners of crime-ridden neighborhoods.

The most recent arrests occurred this morning when at 5:45 a.m. over 100 police officers from 7 different law enforcement agencies, including 5 SWAT teams, conducted simultaneous raids on 8 locations in Elizabeth. Eleven people were arrested, 4 guns confiscated and heroin with an approximate street value of $116,000+, cocaine with a street value of $100,000 and $15,300 in cash were seized. The 400 grams of heroin seized was in a pure form and requires laboratory analysis to determine its degree of purity. Including the arrests and seizures that occurred in October, December and early January as part of the same investigation, the total amount of seizures rises to $203,500+ worth of heroin (street value), $100,000 worth of cocaine (street value), $30,500 in cash and 4 guns with a total of 19 people arrested.

According to Gerard P. McAleer, Special Agent in Charge of the DEAs New Jersey Division, This investigation knows no boundaries. It extends beyond Elizabeth, beyond Union County and beyond New Jersey. We will continue to investigate this to the source country.

Anibal Rodriguez street-level dealers were also identified and charged. Charged are his brother, Alniva Julio Rodriguez, Lamont Long, Rocky Lyles, Craig Pearson, Barry Warren and Dijuant Williams.

Two of Rodriguez suppliers have also been identified as Curtis Neal of Perthy Amboy, and Ramon Reyes were arrested and charged in December when they purchased 150 bricks of heroin (7500 individual bags) from a New York supplier. That heroin had a street value of $75,000. The man from New York from whom he purchased the drugs has also been arrested and charged. Neal and Reyes are currently facing federal charges.

One of Rodriguez street-level dealers is identified as Rocky Lyles. Lyles was arrested and charged in October, 2007 after he attempted to retrieve the jacket of a three-year-old girl from a day care center in Elizabeth. The jacket belonged to the daughter of Lyles girlfriend. The child had already handed the 27 bags of heroin she found in her pocket to her teacher who alerted police. Among other things, Lyles is charged with endangering the welfare of a minor.

Karnell Wilson has also been identified as a supplier for Anibal Rodriguez. Wilson is part of an organization centered around Anthony Hopson. This organization provides heroin primarily to the area of Jackson Avenue and Bond Street and Jefferson Park in Elizabeth. Hopson is joined by his nephew, Khiah Hopson originally from Georgia who acts as his right-hand man. Wilson and Anthony and Khiah Hopson supplied and shared suppliers with other mid-level drug dealers inside and outside of Elizabeth. Some of their customers include Robert Bobby Franklin, Ryshane Graves and Manuel Veras---all of whom have been arrested and charged.

This investigation involved the cooperation of several agencies besides the others already mentioned. These include: Newark Police Department, the U.S. Marshals Service and officers from various local police departments throughout the state who are assigned temporarily to the DEAs High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area Task Force.

Despite these charges every defendant is presumed innocent, unless and until found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, following a trial at which the defendant has all of the trial rights guaranteed by the United States Constitution and State law.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 10, 2008, 03:44:57 PM
Google search tells me that Anibal is a dutch name...and I'm looking into some Anibal Rodriguez sites too...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 03:47:36 PM
Is Daury's first name really Daury? anyone, anyone, Bueller?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: MumInOhio on April 10, 2008, 03:47:57 PM

Wonder if this half a million one is related at Newark airport in March

http://blog.nj.com/ledgerarchives/2008/03/feds_airport_workers_in_heroin.html

Feds: Airport workers in heroin ring
Posted by Ted Sherman March 24, 2008 9:14PM
Categories: Crime
Amid growing questions over the level of security on the tarmac at Newark Liberty International Airport, two more airline workers were under arrest yesterday -- this time charged with conspiring to smuggle bundles of heroin aboard a number of Continental commercial flights from South America.

The two men, both Continental employees, were believed to be part of an international narcotics trafficking organization with ties to El Salvador and Colombia, authorities said. Assistant U.S. Attorney Dennis Carletta said the investigation is continuing.

Charged were Jose Moreno, 43, of Kenilworth, a Continental ramp employee, and Joseph Muniz, 55, of Perth Amboy, a Continental mechanic. Muniz, who had unfettered access to Continental aircraft, helped Moreno retrieve heroin hidden aboard flights from Colombia and El Salvador, with the two getting $5,000 for each shipment, according to special agents with the Department of Homeland Security.


In a criminal complaint outlining the scheme, authorities said one shipment of drugs was hidden within a life preserver compartment aboard a plane from Cali, Colombia, to Newark. The plane was then allowed to continue on to Houston on a domestic flight before anyone tried to retrieve the illicit cargo -- a delay that was aimed at eluding surveillance by Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Agents subsequently found two taped brick-shaped objects containing nearly two pounds of heroin with a street value of more than $500,000.

The arrests of Moreno and Muniz came less than a week after federal authorities detailed a separate plot by airline baggage handlers to steal and counterfeit $2 million in U.S. Treasury checks from the cargo holds of flights at Newark Liberty.

The counterfeiting scam, detailed last week in The Star-Ledger, raised concerns among those involved in the drug smuggling scheme. In the criminal complaint filed yesterday, Muniz was caught on tape last week expressing reluctance to go to the airport to search an incoming flight when he was not scheduled to work.

"I can't be here when it isn't my shift because this place is very hot," he was quoted in the federal complaint. "Do you know what happened now? They caught some guys from cargo and from the ramp stealing checks. It's in The Star-Ledger."

Moreno had his own worries, according to the complaint. He was under increasing pressure from those responsible for shipping the drugs, and feared he would be blamed for stealing the heroin when Muniz failed to retrieve the delivery last week.

In another taped call, he told a still-unidentified player in the alleged conspiracy that he was having problems getting drugs off the jet from Cali. Using code words, he referred to the cargo compartment where the bricks of heroin were stored as "the apartment."

"Listen, this girl was here twice," he said, referring to the aircraft that flew into Newark, and then continued on to Houston. "This guy (Muniz) was not in the apartment at that time and he was not able to find any excuse to stay in the apartment ... because he does not want, well, to get a red flag because everyone is looking a lot."

He later told Muniz he was being pushed to answer for the missing heroin.

"I need to answer for those 800 grams," he told the mechanic.

Muniz responded, "I understand, but brother, I told you from the start, I can't just get on the plane all of a sudden."

"I know ... but they're driving me crazy and calling me," Moreno said.

"I'm not going to let you force me either," Muniz said.

Muniz and Moreno were taken into custody Thursday as they sat in a car near an employee bus stop at Terminal C, and held in federal custody until yesterday, when the criminal complaint was filed.

The men are charged with one count of conspiracy to distribute and to possess with the intent to distribute more than 100 grams of heroin -- which carries a penalty of up to 40 years in prison, as well as fines of up $2 million.

U.S. Magistrate Judge Patty Shwartz in Newark set bail at $250,000 for both men during an initial appearance yesterday.

The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which operates the airport, declined comment. Continental Airlines also said it would have no comment.

Thomas Manifase, deputy special agent in charge of the Newark division of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, said there have been a number of drug cases in recent years involving airline employees at Newark Liberty.

"They feel secure. They know the airport. They have the inside information we don't have and can walk in and do things right under our surveillance," he said.

In the case filed yesterday, he said investigators believe there were multi-kilo shipments that came through the airport over at least the past year.

"These guys used their secure access for illicit gains," he said.




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: katrien on April 10, 2008, 03:52:19 PM
In his first article Henk Strootman wrote this:

Quote
Breakthrough in Holloway Case?

News from Aruba. I dont mean the family tragedy in Santa Crux were a drugs addict killed his parents and brother, but I mean the Holloway case.
The team of detectives, investigating the confessions of Joran v.d. Sloot, is tracing a man being lockup in the USA for a drugs crime. The police have indications he might be the one driving the little boat taking Natalee to the open sea. In the coming days it has to become clear weather this is a hot track or a wrong track.
But from the fact it the track is treated as a so called embargo-investigation (an investigation carefully separated, even for colleague police-officers), the conclusion could be taken that this information is rather serious.
Is it possible that after all this Daury really exists?


He is writing about Daury in this article.  Johan 555 wrote this in the rebound thread:



Quote
johan555
Scared Monkey
 
 

        Re: Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) DUTCH & English
Reply #305 on: April 06, 2008, 04:01:34 AM     Quote

________________________________________
Grand Blanc senior David Stacey pleaded guilty in December to delivering cocaine and is in trouble with the law and drugs

Maybe there are more people applying for the name Daury. ::MonkeyCool::


Quote
Weet iemand of deze David Stacey ( die betrokken was in de MAX ZAAK)
Een 2e huis op aruba had ?
Of was hij daar op vakantie met z'n aangenomen pleegzoon van 32
Deze Stacey zit vast vanwege drugs ,zie bericht hierboven
Joran had het wel over een ouder iemand

 weet rob hier wat van ?

In this post Johan 555 asks if someone knows whether this Stacey has a second house on Aruba or if he only was on Aruba spending his holiday there with his 32 year old foster son.
Joran was talking about an older person. ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 03:57:45 PM
I just went through the DOJ site and there is no reference to a Daury Rodriguez. I did find a Rodriguez that looks just like him wanted in 11 / 07 in Puerto Rico. Seems that guy is still on the run.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 04:03:45 PM
I just went through the DOJ site and there is no reference to a Daury Rodriguez. I did find a Rodriguez that looks just like him wanted in 11 / 07 in Puerto Rico. Seems that guy is still on the run.

This isn't him, at least I don't think so.. the birth date doesn't look right.

http://www.usdoj.gov/marshals/district/pr/fugitives/rodriguez.pdf

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/Rodriguez2.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 10, 2008, 04:06:09 PM
Is Daury's first name really Daury? anyone, anyone, Bueller?

Anibal and Daury
sittin' in a tree,
Makin' up new names
for you and me.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 04:06:20 PM
Here is a previous charge

+++++++++++++++++++

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/mow/news2006/managed.ind.htm

JUNE 27, 2006

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

ARKANSAS COMPANY, EMPLOYEES INDICTED FOR

FALSE STATEMENTS, LABOR VIOLATIONS

            KANSAS CITY, Mo. Bradley J. Schlozman, United States Attorney for the Western District of Missouri, announced that an Arkansas company and three of its employees were indicted by a federal grand jury today for making false statements to the government related to a construction project at Fort Leonard Wood, Mo.

            Managed Subcontractors International, Inc. (MSI), an Arkansas corporation, Brentt G. Tumey, 31, director of operations for MSI, and Valerie L. Colby, 51, payroll manager for MSI, both of Rogers, Ark.; and Anibal Tristan Rodriguez, 32, of Dallas Texas, a manager for MSI, were charged in a 52-count indictment returned by a federal grand jury in Kansas City.

            MSI entered into a contract to provide qualified personnel for framing, drywall hanging, finishing and related trades for a subcontractor working on the construction of the Basic Combat Training Complex at Fort Leonard Wood. The $50 million contract was administered by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and therefore, under the Davis Bacon Act, wages paid to those workers were required to meet or exceed the prevailing wage rate.

            Counts One through Fifty of the federal indictment allege that MSI and Colby made false statements on Statements of Compliance for a federal contract, and that Tumey aided and abetted in the making of false statements. Each of the 50 counts alleges a separate instance from Nov. 11, 2002, to July 23, 2003, in which the defendants made the following false statements:

            * that no deductions had been made from the full wages earned by any person other than permissible deductions, when in fact MSI had made an unlawful deduction of 10 percent of each of its employees gross earnings for workers compensation insurance;

            * that the wage rates paid to laborers were not less than the applicable wage rates incorporated into the contract, when in fact MSI was paying its employee drywall hangers and plasters less than the applicable hourly wage rates because of the unlawful 10 percent deduction for workers compensation insurance;

            * that submitted payroll records were correct and complete, when in fact MSI had paid a number of employees a different amount than had been recorded on the payroll records that were submitted with each Statement of Compliance.

            Count Fifty-One of the federal indictment alleges that between Nov. 11, 2002, and July 6, 2003, Rodriguez represented a Social Security number to be his own number, when he knew it had not been assigned to him.

            Count Fifty-Two of the federal indictment alleges that MSI failed to provide workers compensation coverage to its employees.

            Schlozman cautioned that the charges contained in the indictment are simply accusations, and not evidence of guilt. Evidence supporting the charges must be presented to a federal trial jury, whose duty is to determine guilt or innocence.

            This case is being prosecuted by Assistant U.S. Attorney Richard E. Monroe. It was investigated by the Department of Labor, the Department of Defense Inspector General, and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 04:10:39 PM
I'm finding quite a few Dario Rodriguez(s)... any chance this is the real name? Daury for short?

or maybe it is Dari ???


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 04:11:43 PM
I'm finding quite a few Dario Rodriguez(s)... any chance this is the real name? Daury for short?

or maybe it is Dari ???

I don't know Rob but since Rodriguez is such a common name I wouldn't go to far looking at all the similar Rodriguez's.  Maybe we can get more information from Jossy if he has it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 04:19:44 PM
I think Daury Rodriguez is the right name and the right spelling. Here is the interview with Elizbeth Vargas and I'm almost sure that ABC would verify the name and spelling.

Daury Rodriguez, during an interview with ABC News' Elizabeth Vargas. (ABC) By ELIZABETH VARGAS & CHRIS FRANCESCANI ORANJESTAD, Aruba Feb. 4, 2008 A 21-year old Aruban came forwar...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=423_1202184270

There is no listing in the DOJ or Federal inmate locater. We might have to wait for more info. I just don't see anything other than the reports we have all seen to verify where he is.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 10, 2008, 05:05:29 PM
So it is possible that he was arrested late February or the first of March?  Thanks Klaas.

 *segun fbi, daury know more of desaparicion of natalee

 oranjestad (aan): informacion confiable cu daily paper owing to achieve for of merca is cu daury that some time happen owing to worde deteni at merca, as daily paper owing to publica yesterday, is worde sospecha of posesion of 8 kilo of heroin. the acusacion is tell posesion with the intention to distribute, then the is worde acusa of posesion of the heroin, cu intencion of trafica. according the informacion, the acusacion is of january year happen, where cu autoridadnan mericano owing to look at the in*

BTW...I'm searching the NY inmate status records....Is Daury a version of David?

TIA Des

Daury could NOT have been arrested in the US in January, he was on TV about Joran's confession in February  ::MonkeyWink::

My point in asking this morning...thank you Klaas.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Nut44x4 on April 10, 2008, 05:13:43 PM
The Thailand rumour is interesting. Thailand is well known to be a haven for the sexually depraved, and Joran should fit right in.


Yeah......perhaps he is staying with that freakmeister Maarten van den Berg


Grosssssness!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Nut44x4 on April 10, 2008, 05:17:02 PM
Is Daury's first name really Daury? anyone, anyone, Bueller?


I would highly doubt it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 05:19:46 PM
The Thailand rumour is interesting. Thailand is well known to be a haven for the sexually depraved, and Joran should fit right in.


Yeah......perhaps he is staying with that freakmeister Maarten van den Berg


Grosssssness!

I don't think Joran is in Thailand.  Read Johan's post in the Dutch thread.  I believe Joran is in a treatment facility.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Kermit on April 10, 2008, 05:23:17 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHjatwPyZR8\

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyDance::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ArubaBeachTennisSloots.gif)

What in the hell is that on her AZZ???????????????????????????

Looks like the turkish flag........


(http://www.turkeyrealestate.co.uk/Turkey-Facts/Turkey_flag.gif)

You're close BB.  It's the "I ate a whole turkey" emblem.

Hi Monkeys!  ::MonkeyCool::

windy
ROFLMAO ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Nut44x4 on April 10, 2008, 05:28:25 PM
http://searchjustice.usdoj.gov/search?q=Rodriguez&btnG=Search+dea.gov&q=site%3Awww.usdoj.gov%2Fdea&sort=date%3AD%3AL%3Ad1&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=iso-8859-1&oe=UTF-8&client=default_frontend&proxystylesheet=default_frontend&site=default_collection


egads.....tons of links there w/ that name


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Kermit on April 10, 2008, 05:28:27 PM
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8184/beachtennisvd8.jpg)
Is it Joran or Valentijin?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: CapsLockWizard on April 10, 2008, 06:30:58 PM
So it is possible that he was arrested late February or the first of March?  Thanks Klaas.


Their is two story to this News, the true story and the one to make people dance.

The dance story:

In January a raid in a house in N.J. the DEA found 8 kilo of heroine, and there where different persons arrested.

One of those arrested, mention his name during questioning, but he was not in the USA in January, So the DEA made a petition for an arrest of Daury. The Immigration department had his name in the system for an arrest and when he waltz into the USA they Arrest him. He accusation is that he is responsable for the transportation of 8 Kilo of Heroine.

In this dance story there are flaws again. Because one person that mention his name and he is automatically being sought out by the DEA. The strange is that he was not here in January. Now in the USA immigration network would have see him leaving Aruba and would have stop him right there in USA/airport Territory in Aruba.

now from the true story source: Now I was told that the package was on him, and that he tough that he will risk since others went trough before. This was a deal for Hammer for the block.  They became greedy and since the first went OK he taught the second would be the same. The DEA accusation against him are the possession 8 kilo of heroine with the intent of distribution.

It was a night flight he took that he arrived in the USA, when he got arrested, he give The DEA the name of his lawyer in Aruba Chris Lejuez who called Chris and inform him of the arrest of Daury.

Today it was in the paper but 3 weeks ago it was whisper via the wires.





 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 10, 2008, 06:41:27 PM
The Thailand rumour is interesting. Thailand is well known to be a haven for the sexually depraved, and Joran should fit right in.


Yeah......perhaps he is staying with that freakmeister Maarten van den Berg


Grosssssness!

Thailand is also known for medical tourism.  I wonder if he went to have some alterations done.  Make him look less like Joran the media wonder.  What minor alterations would make his face less recognizable? 

His height - I'm not sure they can do anything.  His facial features?  Maybe change the chin line?  Brows?  Nose?  What are those features that stand out and make him recognizable in a crowd?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 10, 2008, 06:48:39 PM
DAURY RODRIGUEZ

When the following quotes are considered ... Daury Rodriguez was not the friend who Joran was referring to in the Devries video recording.

I believe that Joran was made aware that he was going to be taped in the fifth segment.  Why else would he change his previous claims to Patrick that the friend who assisted him ... he had known all his life and ... he would take his name to the game.  Then in the fifth segment of the video recording he names Daury ... a story that can be proven to be untrue.

I am more inclined to believe Joran in the previous segments when he claims his loyalty to a person he has known all his life.  Let me see ... could he be talking about his half-brother or his father?

Janet

+++++++++++

Exclusive: Man Behind the Van der Sloot Tapes
Peter de Vries Says He's 'Totally Convinced' Joran Told the Truth; 'Daury' Is Only Question Left
By CHRIS CUOMO, RICH MCHUGH and OLIVIA STERNS
Feb. 7, 2008


De Vries dismissed van der Sloot's claim that he was lying on the tape or that drugs affected his statement, saying "I don't buy these allegations."
 
Instead De Vries said the only question that remains is the identity of "Daury," the "really good friend" whom van der Sloot said he called from a pay phone and who helped him dispose of Holloway's body.

"Our insider was pushing him the next day [after the taped confession] a little bit on the name and then he came up with 'Daury,' but the name he mentioned is not the Daury in the news," De Vries said.

<snipped>
 
ABC News' Elizabeth Vargas caught up with Daury Rodriguez, a 21-year-old Aruban man and longtime friend of van der Sloot's, in Aruba last week. Rodriguez denied that van der Sloot had called him or that he was with van der Sloot on the beach the night Holloway disappeared.
 
"So when Joran Van der Sloot said he had a friend, named Daury, who was here on the beach on May 29 2005, it wasn't you," Vargas asked him.
 
"No," Rodriguez replied. He also told Vargas that van der Sloot apologized and said he lied in an online conversation.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Story?id=4255249&page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Story?id=4255249&page=2


Meet the Man Who Got Van Der Sloot to Talk About Holloway's Disappearance
Patrick van der Eem Gives the Inside Story to ABC News
By CHRIS CUOMO and CHRIS FRANCESCANI
Feb. 4, 2008


In a voice seemingly devoid of emotion, van der Sloot said he turned to a friend of his.

<snipped>

Van der Sloot said that he had known the unnamed friend since childhood and that "if I can ever do anything for him I'd give my life for him.''
 
He went on to say that he'd take the man's name "to my grave,'' but a couple of days later identified him by his first name -- Daury.  

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4236425&page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4236425&page=2
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4236425&page=3
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4236425&page=4


Joe Tacopina
Good Morning America - Diane Sawyer
February 4, 2008


Joe: Well look, you know that is the toughest question but the facts are easily disprovable. The guy allegedly with the boat, Daury, wasn't even in Aruba in May of 2005, he's never owned a boat, Joran didn't meet him until 2 months ago so he made up these facts.
Transcript: Heli (RU)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2570.msg340169#msg340169


Mystery Man in Holloway Case Comes Forward
Man Named As Accomplice By Van der Sloot Denies Involvement in Aruba Disappearance


By ELIZABETH VARGAS & CHRIS FRANCESCANI
ABC News Law & Justice Unit
ORANJESTAD, Aruba
Feb. 4, 2008


A 21-year old Aruban came forward Monday to say that he is the mystery man that Joran van der Sloot implicated on undercover tapes, but claims that he had nothing to do with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

Daury Rodriguez said he was contacted on Saturday by a frantic biographer of Van der Sloot's who, he said, warned him that his name was about to surface in the press as being the alleged accomplice who took Holloway's body out to sea in a boat and dumped it.

"She said, 'I got your number from Joran, because he said your name is going to show up in the press, but I know it's not true. It doesn't fit the story, so you've got to do something about it. You've got to give me proof [of his whereabouts in May 2005], so I can put it in the newspaper ... here in Holland."

ABC News has obtained exclusive U.S. rights to stunning new information about the case, caught on tape, and will air a 90-minute special edition of "20/20: The Final Hours of Natalee Holloway," Monday at 9:30 p.m. ET.

Rodriguez, who grew up on Aruba and played soccer with Van der Sloot when both men were teenagers, said he was angry that his name had been dragged into the case. He said he met with detectives investigating Holloway's disappearance on Monday morning, and that he told them he was living in Rotterdam, Holland in May 2005, when Holloway went missing.

Rodriguez retained an Aruban lawyer when he realized he was implicated in the case, and said he asked the biographer to put him in touch with Van der Sloot, but she refused.

Van der Sloot apparently logged on to an online instant messaging service over the weekend, and Rodriguez said he confronted him and demanded to know why he'd been named as an accomplice. "So, I was online, and he comes online, and I was like, 'Yo, what's wrong with you, man. Why did you do that?' And he's like, 'I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I didn't know what I was talking about. I'm so sorry.' And I said, you know, 'What the f---? Sorry? Don't say that! That's [b.s.]. You're putting me in trouble for nothing.'"

Rodriguez said he played soccer with Van der Sloot when the pair were about 16 years old, and that, while he knew him as an acquaintance, he would never call him a friend.

He said they played poker together at a local casino late last year after Van der Sloot was released from his second arrest.

Rodriguez's attorney Chris Lejuez said his client was born in Colombia, but moved to Aruba as a child when his mother married an Aruban man. Lejuez said Rodriguez moved to Rotterdam to attend trade school in 2004, and stayed on through June or July of 2007, working there. Rodriguez returned to Aruba in January and December of 2005 for vacation, but was not on the island for months before or after Holloway's disappearance.

He told ABC News he never owned a boat. "I never had one, and I don't have one,'' he said.

Asked how he could prove his whereabouts during 2005, Rodriguez said that ATMs he had used in Rotterdam could show he was there in May 2005.

Lejuez said he provided investigators with the name of the trade school Rodriguez had attended and the company he later worked for in Rotterdam.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=2
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=3


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: WhiskeyGirl on April 10, 2008, 06:49:50 PM
I love the cartoons at Diario.  I don't understand them all, but who make them is sure talented.

"Mad Nel Decease!!"

(http://news.diario-aruba.com//images/stories/2008N/april/10/car.jpg)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 06:50:56 PM
So it is possible that he was arrested late February or the first of March?  Thanks Klaas.


Their is two story to this News, the true story and the one to make people dance.

The dance story:

In January a raid in a house in N.J. the DEA found 8 kilo of heroine, and there where different persons arrested.

One of those arrested, mention his name during questioning, but he was not in the USA in January, So the DEA made a petition for an arrest of Daury. The Immigration department had his name in the system for an arrest and when he waltz into the USA they Arrest him. He accusation is that he is responsable for the transportation of 8 Kilo of Heroine.

In this dance story there are flaws again. Because one person that mention his name and he is automatically being sought out by the DEA. The strange is that he was not here in January. Now in the USA immigration network would have see him leaving Aruba and would have stop him right there in USA/airport Territory in Aruba.

now from the true story source: Now I was told that the package was on him, and that he tough that he will risk since others went trough before. This was a deal for Hammer for the block.  They became greedy and since the first went OK he taught the second would be the same. The DEA accusation against him are the possession 8 kilo of heroine with the intent of distribution.

It was a night flight he took that he arrived in the USA, when he got arrested, he give The DEA the name of his lawyer in Aruba Chris Lejuez who called Chris and inform him of the arrest of Daury.

Today it was in the paper but 3 weeks ago it was whisper via the wires.





 

Capslock - do you know the date of his arrest and at what airport?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 10, 2008, 06:58:31 PM

Has there been any Aruban publication that has contradicted the April 3, 2008 article in Telegraaf/Binnenland which reported that Joran was in a psychiatric institution?
Janet

+++++++++++


http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3705073/_Familie_Van_der_Sloot_gedagvaard__.html

Translation:

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #745 3/25
Reply #757 on: April 03, 2008, 12:11:21 PM

Entire Families Van der Sloot summoned

<snipped>

He has been held under treatment at the psychiatric institute in Altrecht.  On an open devision in Den Dolder he gets therapy for people who are stuck in everyday like "and are suffering from behavioral and psychiatric problems."

<snipped>

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2745.msg370419#msg370419

BUMPED

++++++++

Joran van der Sloot
Joran's Book
June 13, 2005


Page 156
Jan van der Straaten, head commissar of the police, talked to me after lunch around 1 pm, informally at the police station in Oranjestad. He said: Joran, I have known your father for years. I only want to help you. I am going to see to it that you can go to Holland. That you will not have to go to jail, but that you will be committed in a mental institution. You only will have to tell the truth.
Translator - Johanna (BFN)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 07:02:45 PM
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
April 9, 2008

Airport is coping with consequences of the strikes

(http://www.amigoe.com/english/images/04-09-brandweer-in-actie.jpg)

The airport fire fighters started their actions immediately after the verdict of the judge.

ORANJESTAD The airport of Aruba has missed four flights yesterday due to actions of the fire brigade.  Two Continental flights diverted to Bonaire and Curacao.  Also an American flight diverted to Curacao and one of US Airways to San Juan, Puerto Rico.

Aruba Airport Authority (AAA) has not decided yet whether she will appeal the decision of the judge to allow actions.  However, spokesperson Hendrik Croes van AAA indicated that AAA will most probably not appeal.   

The judge decided yesterday that collective actions of the fire fighters union Sinba are allowed, unless AAA and the government are informed 24 hours in advance of the actions.  They must be at work two full days in a row after one day of strike; three full days after two days of strike; and four full days after three days of strike.

When the actions continue or resumed, the union must always consider this schedule.

The unions have not announced actions for today, not tomorrow.  Airline companies wont have to divert to other airports today.  The airport could not guarantee a minimum staffing of the fire brigade during the strike hours noon till 18:00.  The Aviation Administration has therefore decided to inform all the companies that were coming to Aruba of this.  Thats when the three airline companies decided to divert.

The diversion of the 4 flights was an inconvenience for the passengers, mostly tourists, because it was not until they were in the aircraft that they heard that the aircraft received a different destination, without hotel reservation.  The diversion of the aircrafts had also consequences for the hotel- and the entire tourism sector.

The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) is in Aruba Currently for a safety audit of the airport.  This has nothing to do with the strikes, but it is a sad concurrence of circumstances.  Representatives of AAA and ICAO deliberated this morning and the details whether to continue with the audit was not clear when this paper went to press.  This audit is part of the ICAO inspections of all the airports of the Kingdom.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Pita on April 10, 2008, 07:09:44 PM
I wonder if this has any relevance:

Cops: Woman busted in Secaucus with $500K in heroin
by Michaelangelo Conte
Thursday January 10, 2008, 7:19 PM


                           (http://blog.nj.com/hudsoncountynow_impact/2008/01/large_ZRRODR.jpg)
                                                                                  Pamela Suchy
Ramona Rodriguez-Tejada is arraigned via video link this morning from the Hudson County jail in Kearny.

An Aruban woman was busted with eight kilograms of heroin as she boarded a bus at the Harmon Cove Mall in Secaucus yesterday and police say she was connected to an international trafficking network with ties to Holland.

A distraught Ramona Rodriguez-Tejeda, 49, made her first appearance yesterday at Central Judicial Processing Court in Jersey City on drug distribution charges. She could face up to 20 years in prison, said Lt. Mark Kelly, commander of the State Police Drug Traffic Unit in Newark.

She appeared in court via video link from Hudson County jail in Kearny and she was so distraught during the appearance that she was later taken away for medical attention. He bail was set at $1 million cash only by state Superior Court Judge Kevin Callahan.

Kelly said the heroin has a wholesale value of about $520,000 but once processed and packaged for sale on the streets it will be worth twice that much.

Rodriguez-Tejeda, who also uses an address in Brooklyn, was charged with first-degree
possession of illegal drugs and first-degree possession with attempt to distribute, said Kelly.

Kelly declined to specify how troopers learned of the shipment.

http://www.nj.com/hudsoncountynow/index.ssf/2008/01/cops_woman_busted_in_secaucus.html



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 07:15:46 PM
I wonder if this has any relevance:

Cops: Woman busted in Secaucus with $500K in heroin
by Michaelangelo Conte
Thursday January 10, 2008, 7:19 PM


                           (http://blog.nj.com/hudsoncountynow_impact/2008/01/large_ZRRODR.jpg)
                                                                                  Pamela Suchy
Ramona Rodriguez-Tejada is arraigned via video link this morning from the Hudson County jail in Kearny.

An Aruban woman was busted with eight kilograms of heroin as she boarded a bus at the Harmon Cove Mall in Secaucus yesterday and police say she was connected to an international trafficking network with ties to Holland.

A distraught Ramona Rodriguez-Tejeda, 49, made her first appearance yesterday at Central Judicial Processing Court in Jersey City on drug distribution charges. She could face up to 20 years in prison, said Lt. Mark Kelly, commander of the State Police Drug Traffic Unit in Newark.

She appeared in court via video link from Hudson County jail in Kearny and she was so distraught during the appearance that she was later taken away for medical attention. He bail was set at $1 million cash only by state Superior Court Judge Kevin Callahan.

Kelly said the heroin has a wholesale value of about $520,000 but once processed and packaged for sale on the streets it will be worth twice that much.

Rodriguez-Tejeda, who also uses an address in Brooklyn, was charged with first-degree
possession of illegal drugs and first-degree possession with attempt to distribute, said Kelly.

Kelly declined to specify how troopers learned of the shipment.

http://www.nj.com/hudsoncountynow/index.ssf/2008/01/cops_woman_busted_in_secaucus.html



Pita - great find!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 07:16:53 PM
Pita - except that we know Daury was not arrested prior to February 4, 2008, unless he was arrested then released?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Pita on April 10, 2008, 07:17:22 PM
I wonder if this has any relevance:

Cops: Woman busted in Secaucus with $500K in heroin
by Michaelangelo Conte
Thursday January 10, 2008, 7:19 PM


                           (http://blog.nj.com/hudsoncountynow_impact/2008/01/large_ZRRODR.jpg)
                                                                                  Pamela Suchy
Ramona Rodriguez-Tejada is arraigned via video link this morning from the Hudson County jail in Kearny.

An Aruban woman was busted with eight kilograms of heroin as she boarded a bus at the Harmon Cove Mall in Secaucus yesterday and police say she was connected to an international trafficking network with ties to Holland.

A distraught Ramona Rodriguez-Tejeda, 49, made her first appearance yesterday at Central Judicial Processing Court in Jersey City on drug distribution charges. She could face up to 20 years in prison, said Lt. Mark Kelly, commander of the State Police Drug Traffic Unit in Newark.

She appeared in court via video link from Hudson County jail in Kearny and she was so distraught during the appearance that she was later taken away for medical attention. He bail was set at $1 million cash only by state Superior Court Judge Kevin Callahan.

Kelly said the heroin has a wholesale value of about $520,000 but once processed and packaged for sale on the streets it will be worth twice that much.

Rodriguez-Tejeda, who also uses an address in Brooklyn, was charged with first-degree
possession of illegal drugs and first-degree possession with attempt to distribute, said Kelly.

Kelly declined to specify how troopers learned of the shipment.

http://www.nj.com/hudsoncountynow/index.ssf/2008/01/cops_woman_busted_in_secaucus.html



Pita - great find!

Thank you, Klaas!   ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Pita on April 10, 2008, 07:20:23 PM
Pita - except that we know Daury was not arrested prior to February 4, 2008, unless he was arrested then released?


Yes, could be.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Pita on April 10, 2008, 07:24:04 PM
From the Aruba Chamber:

RODRIGUEZ TEJADA, RAMONA DEL CARMEN    TANKI LEENDERT    181-M NOORD

http://www.arubachamber.com/LC%20KLEIN%2005-06-2005.htm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 10, 2008, 07:25:19 PM
From the Aruba Chamber:

RODRIGUEZ TEJADA, RAMONA DEL CARMEN    TANKI LEENDERT    181-M NOORD

http://www.arubachamber.com/LC%20KLEIN%2005-06-2005.htm

 ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 10, 2008, 07:29:59 PM
From the Aruba Chamber:

RODRIGUEZ TEJADA, RAMONA DEL CARMEN    TANKI LEENDERT    181-M NOORD

http://www.arubachamber.com/LC%20KLEIN%2005-06-2005.htm

 ::MonkeyShocked::

 ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyEek::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: vms on April 10, 2008, 07:31:58 PM
From the Aruba Chamber:

RODRIGUEZ TEJADA, RAMONA DEL CARMEN    TANKI LEENDERT    181-M NOORD

http://www.arubachamber.com/LC%20KLEIN%2005-06-2005.htm

Thanks, Pita!

<snipped>

Kelly says the woman is a native of the Dominican Republic, but has Aruban citizenship and addresses in Brooklyn.

http://www.haiti-info.com/spip.php?article4451


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 07:33:30 PM
Pita - except that we know Daury was not arrested prior to February 4, 2008, unless he was arrested then released?


Yes, could be.

Another thing, possible she was arrested and when questioned about who supplied her with the heroin she said "my wonderful sweet sporter of a nephew Daury".  Then they simply waited for him to come to the US to nab him?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 10, 2008, 07:42:25 PM


Authorities DEA drug courts in this State, were conducting research for several months, as part of an international event to smuggle drugs.


The Dominican national was the residence card of Aruba. Your address but said it was from Brooklyn, NY. The official however said that it could be a network that had connections in the Netherlands and Haiti.

The judge set bail of $ 1 million.

Rodriguez Tejada appeared before the Court yesterday in New Jersey Central Judicial Processing "on charges of distribution and possession of drugs.

Detective Mark Kelly, in charge of the unit in the State Police Drug in Newark indicated that Ms. Rodriguez faces up to 20 years in prison if found guilty in court.

http://www.diariohorizonte.com/view/articulonacional.aspx?articleid=17077&zoneid=9


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Pita on April 10, 2008, 07:42:28 PM
Pita - except that we know Daury was not arrested prior to February 4, 2008, unless he was arrested then released?


Yes, could be.

Another thing, possible she was arrested and when questioned about who supplied her with the heroin she said "my wonderful sweet sporter of a nephew Daury".  Then they simply waited for him to come to the US to nab him?

Yes, this would tie in with one of Capslockwizard's stories from his prior post:

snipped...

In January a raid in a house in N.J. the DEA found 8 kilo of heroine, and there where different persons arrested.

One of those arrested, mention his name during questioning, but he was not in the USA in January, So the DEA made a petition for an arrest of Daury. The Immigration department had his name in the system for an arrest and when he waltz into the USA they Arrest him. He accusation is that he is responsable for the transportation of 8 Kilo of Heroine.....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 10, 2008, 07:47:35 PM
Authorities seize 8 kilograms of heroin worth more than $500K
10 January 2008


SEACAUCUS, New Jersey. - Authorities seized 8 kilograms of heroin and arrested a woman as part an ongoing probe into a case with suspected international ties.

State Police Lt. Mark Kelly said Ramona Rodriguez-Tejada, 49, was arrested Wednesday as she attempted to board a bus in Secaucus. He says the powdered heroin she allegedly possessed is worth an estimated $520,000 and likely was smuggled through Aruba.

Kelly says the woman is a native of the Dominican Republic, but has Aruban citizenship and addresses in Brooklyn. Shes being held at the Hudson County Jail on $1 million bail.

Authorities believe the case also has ties to Holland and Haiti, and are continuing their investigation.

The reproduction, the redistribution or the syndication of the above text, in whole, part or in any form, requires the prior consent of Associated Press.

http://www.haiti-info.com/spip.php?article4451





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: sandy leiva on April 10, 2008, 07:49:17 PM
Sorry. No Inmate Named DAURY RODRIGUEZ Race: unspecified Sex: unspecified found.

http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/LocateInmate.jsp

I'll try something else.

try New Jersey federal and state bureau of prisons


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 10, 2008, 07:58:39 PM
I don't see Daury either at either site..He probably is just under suspicion right now..

https://www.vinelink.com/vinelink/searchResultsAction.do

https://www6.state.nj.us/DOC_Inmate/results?pg=1&col2Srt=2&h=221408


Here is a NY link..This probably isnt him either...

Identifying and Location Information
As of 04/10/08 DIN (Department Identification Number) 08R1261   
Inmate Name RODRIGUEZ, DAVID   
Sex MALE   
Date of Birth 05/20/1985   
Race / Ethnicity BLACK/HISPANIC   
Custody Status IN CUSTODY   
Housing Releasing Facility ULSTER   
Date Received (Original) 04/09/2008   
Date Received (Current) 04/09/2008   
Admission Type NEW COMMITMENT   
County of Commitment NEW YORK   

CRIM POSS CONTR SUBSTANCE 4TH   C   
CRIM POSS CONTR SUBSTANCE 3RD   B   


http://nysdocslookup.docs.state.ny.us/GCA00P00/WIQ3/WINQ130


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 08:01:34 PM
I don't see Daury either at this site..

https://www6.state.nj.us/DOC_Inmate/results?pg=1&col2Srt=2&h=221408

I don't think it's gone to trial yet so I doubt they (Ramona and Daury) are even in prison yet.  They are probably in a "holding" facility or local jail waiting for trial.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Lala'sMom on April 10, 2008, 08:03:33 PM
So it is possible that he was arrested late February or the first of March?  Thanks Klaas.


Their is two story to this News, the true story and the one to make people dance.

The dance story:

In January a raid in a house in N.J. the DEA found 8 kilo of heroine, and there where different persons arrested.

One of those arrested, mention his name during questioning, but he was not in the USA in January, So the DEA made a petition for an arrest of Daury. The Immigration department had his name in the system for an arrest and when he waltz into the USA they Arrest him. He accusation is that he is responsable for the transportation of 8 Kilo of Heroine.

In this dance story there are flaws again. Because one person that mention his name and he is automatically being sought out by the DEA. The strange is that he was not here in January. Now in the USA immigration network would have see him leaving Aruba and would have stop him right there in USA/airport Territory in Aruba.

now from the true story source: Now I was told that the package was on him, and that he tough that he will risk since others went trough before. This was a deal for Hammer for the block.  They became greedy and since the first went OK he taught the second would be the same. The DEA accusation against him are the possession 8 kilo of heroine with the intent of distribution.

It was a night flight he took that he arrived in the USA, when he got arrested, he give The DEA the name of his lawyer in Aruba Chris Lejuez who called Chris and inform him of the arrest of Daury.

Today it was in the paper but 3 weeks ago it was whisper via the wires.





 

Well, that is as clear as mud, isn't it? LOL  Never ends...never ends.  Thanks for the info.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: CapsLockWizard on April 10, 2008, 08:16:05 PM
So it is possible that he was arrested late February or the first of March?  Thanks Klaas.


Their is two story to this News, the true story and the one to make people dance.

The dance story:

In January a raid in a house in N.J. the DEA found 8 kilo of heroine, and there where different persons arrested.

One of those arrested, mention his name during questioning, but he was not in the USA in January, So the DEA made a petition for an arrest of Daury. The Immigration department had his name in the system for an arrest and when he waltz into the USA they Arrest him. He accusation is that he is responsable for the transportation of 8 Kilo of Heroine.

In this dance story there are flaws again. Because one person that mention his name and he is automatically being sought out by the DEA. The strange is that he was not here in January. Now in the USA immigration network would have see him leaving Aruba and would have stop him right there in USA/airport Territory in Aruba.

now from the true story source: Now I was told that the package was on him, and that he tough that he will risk since others went trough before. This was a deal for Hammer for the block.  They became greedy and since the first went OK he taught the second would be the same. The DEA accusation against him are the possession 8 kilo of heroine with the intent of distribution.

It was a night flight he took that he arrived in the USA, when he got arrested, he give The DEA the name of his lawyer in Aruba Chris Lejuez who called Chris and inform him of the arrest of Daury.

Today it was in the paper but 3 weeks ago it was whisper via the wires.





 

Capslock - do you know the date of his arrest and at what airport?



Klassend:

The info will be here short..


First his name is not Daury. that is his call name at home and everyone cal him so

Second. He was going to a poken tournament....<<<<GAMBLING>>>> Associating to who.

Third. his mother is in New Jersey.

Fourh: Lives in Catiri and Moko.   will be checked. lives between his step father house and mother house.

and is a poker gambler. 

more later.....



l




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 10, 2008, 08:24:23 PM
Very interesting Johan..I see she is still insisting Natalee was a drug addict :(

here you can see that Renee Gielen is working for the dutch&aruban government :
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/gielkopie.jpg?t=1207784893)



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 10, 2008, 08:27:45 PM

Klassend:

The info will be here short..

First his name is not Daury. that is his call name at home and everyone cal him so

Second. He was going to a poken tournament....<<<<GAMBLING>>>> Associating to who.

Third. his mother is in New Jersey.

Fourh: Lives in Catiri and Moko.   will be checked. lives between his step father house and mother house.

and is a poker gambler. 

more later.....



Authorities seize 8 kilograms of heroin worth more than $500K
10 January 2008


SEACAUCUS, New Jersey. - Authorities seized 8 kilograms of heroin and arrested a woman as part an ongoing probe into a case with suspected international ties.

State Police Lt. Mark Kelly said Ramona Rodriguez-Tejada, 49, was arrested Wednesday as she attempted to board a bus in Secaucus. He says the powdered heroin she allegedly possessed is worth an estimated $520,000 and likely was smuggled through Aruba.

Kelly says the woman is a native of the Dominican Republic, but has Aruban citizenship and addresses in Brooklyn. Shes being held at the Hudson County Jail on $1 million bail.

Authorities believe the case also has ties to Holland and Haiti, and are continuing their investigation.

The reproduction, the redistribution or the syndication of the above text, in whole, part or in any form, requires the prior consent of Associated Press.

http://www.haiti-info.com/spip.php?article4451


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 08:34:12 PM
Hi ya Pita...

hey, the other nite I saw that name Michaelangelo Conte - the writer and kinda just skimmed it..

try this - other items and articles written by Conte.

http://tinyurl.com/57577y

It's a forum that discusses events in the area. I find in this forum there are several people talking about murder, drugs and other issues that could be related to all these shipments.

I know it's not THE Daury, but it is a huge connection to Aruba.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 08:45:27 PM
I don't see Daury either at either site..He probably is just under suspicion right now..

https://www.vinelink.com/vinelink/searchResultsAction.do

https://www6.state.nj.us/DOC_Inmate/results?pg=1&col2Srt=2&h=221408


Here is a NY link..This probably isnt him either...

Identifying and Location Information
As of 04/10/08 DIN (Department Identification Number) 08R1261   
Inmate Name RODRIGUEZ, DAVID   
Sex MALE   
Date of Birth 05/20/1985   
Race / Ethnicity BLACK/HISPANIC   
Custody Status IN CUSTODY   
Housing Releasing Facility ULSTER   
Date Received (Original) 04/09/2008   
Date Received (Current) 04/09/2008   
Admission Type NEW COMMITMENT   
County of Commitment NEW YORK   

CRIM POSS CONTR SUBSTANCE 4TH   C   
CRIM POSS CONTR SUBSTANCE 3RD   B   


http://nysdocslookup.docs.state.ny.us/GCA00P00/WIQ3/WINQ130

right *******, and they have the nerve and gall to say our system sucks... ha ha ha .. I don't know how Klaas even does the FP....LOL

held on suspicion = serious allegation BACK BY HARD EVIDENCE. Huge difference here.

He gets the RIGHTS NOT AFFORDED NATALEE HOLLOWAY AND HER FAMILY.. he's only held... not charged and once he's charged outside of murder he will get bond and a court appointed attorney.

and his family will not be screwed around as to his whereabouts. They will get all info so they can help him mount a proper defense.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: vms on April 10, 2008, 08:53:24 PM
Woman arrested with heroin is called a trafficking suspect
Friday, January 11, 2008 BY JUSTO BAUTISTASTAFF WRITER
   
SECAUCUS -- A woman arrested at a bus stop with 8 kilograms of high-grade heroin worth $520,000 is a suspect in a drug-trafficking probe that stretches from New York to the Caribbean, the state police said Thursday.

Ramona Rodriguez-Tejada, 49, was being held on $1 million bail at the Hudson County Jail.

The "high-level" organization has ties to Aruba, Holland and "points northeast in the metro area," said Detective Lt. Mark Kelly of the New Jersey State Police Drug Trafficking North Unit.

"We're seeing a pattern where a lot of cocaine or heroin seems to be trafficking through those countries," Kelly said. "It was nice to get the stuff off the street."

Rodriguez-Tejada was arrested at 4 p.m. Wednesday as she waited for a bus at the Harmon Meadow Plaza shopping complex on Route 3. Eight kilograms of heroin were found in her luggage, Kelly said.

"It was in pure powder form, and had not been broken down for street distribution," Kelly said.

Rodriguez-Tejada, a Dominican Republic national who lives in Aruba but also uses addresses in Brooklyn, told investigators she is a jewelry dealer in Aruba, Kelly said.

Kelly declined to say when the ongoing investigation began, calling it a collaborative effort between the state police and state Division of Criminal Justice.

"We will be consulting with other agencies like the DEA [Drug Enforcement Administration]," Kelly said.


http://www.northjersey.com/news/crimeandcourts/13699532.html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 10, 2008, 08:54:41 PM
Hi Rob..I have been reading about David Stacey in the Dutch part of forum..Is his son from Grand Blanc Michigan? Both Dad and Son are named David Stacey?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: vms on April 10, 2008, 08:56:10 PM
Oops. I dunno if you can fix my post, Klaas?  :2redman:


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 10, 2008, 09:19:56 PM
Hi Rob..I have been reading about David Stacey in the Dutch part of forum..Is his son from Grand Blanc Michigan? Both Dad and Son are named David Stacey?

If you haven't been reading the Dutch part of our forum there was some discussion on a David Stacey,who was last with Max De Vries before he dissapeared in Aruba...There is talk that he may have been busted for Cocaine distribution in Illinois or Michigan recently..That would be quite interesting if both him and Daury Rodriguez were both tied to the same Drug Cartel..Would it not?

We don't know all the facts yet and I was away for a week,so I am just trying to understand all I missed...It could be another David Stacey for all I know..


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on April 10, 2008, 09:24:18 PM
Woman arrested with heroin is called a trafficking suspect
Friday, January 11, 2008 BY JUSTO BAUTISTASTAFF WRITER
   
SECAUCUS -- A woman arrested at a bus stop with 8 kilograms of high-grade heroin worth $520,000 is a suspect in a drug-trafficking probe that stretches from New York to the Caribbean, the state police said Thursday.

Ramona Rodriguez-Tejada, 49, was being held on $1 million bail at the Hudson County Jail.

The "high-level" organization has ties to Aruba, Holland and "points northeast in the metro area," said Detective Lt. Mark Kelly of the New Jersey State Police Drug Trafficking North Unit.

"We're seeing a pattern where a lot of cocaine or heroin seems to be trafficking through those countries," Kelly said. "It was nice to get the stuff off the street."

Rodriguez-Tejada was arrested at 4 p.m. Wednesday as she waited for a bus at the Harmon Meadow Plaza shopping complex on Route 3. Eight kilograms of heroin were found in her luggage, Kelly said.

"It was in pure powder form, and had not been broken down for street distribution," Kelly said.

Rodriguez-Tejada, a Dominican Republic national who lives in Aruba but also uses addresses in Brooklyn, told investigators she is a jewelry dealer in Aruba, Kelly said.

Kelly declined to say when the ongoing investigation began, calling it a collaborative effort between the state police and state Division of Criminal Justice.

"We will be consulting with other agencies like the DEA [Drug Enforcement Administration]," Kelly said.


http://www.northjersey.com/news/crimeandcourts/13699532.html

Good find, vms...I was looking off and on all day and didn't see this one....I read this news every day.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: dennisintn on April 10, 2008, 09:26:10 PM
Hi Rob..I have been reading about David Stacey in the Dutch part of forum..Is his son from Grand Blanc Michigan? Both Dad and Son are named David Stacey?

If you havent been reading the DUtch part of our forum there was some discussion on a David Stacey who was last with Max De Vries before he dissapeared...There is talk that he may have been busted for Cocaine distribution in Illinois or Michigan recently..That would be quite interesting if both him and Daury Rodriguez were both tied to the same Drug Cartel..Would it not?

We don't know all the facts yet and I was away for a week,so I am just trying to understand all I missed...It could be another David Stacey for all I know..


i even checked the child predator sites the other day and couldn't find a david stacey i was sure of.  danged little out there within my very limited research abilities.  i sure have strong feelings about what happened to max though.  nothing rang true about anthing i read except that the two of them went out and only l came back.  if max just floated off after the second waverunner went dead, both waverunners and both riders should have floated along with the same current. 
dennisintn


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 10, 2008, 09:26:21 PM
Very interesting Johan..I see she is still insisting Natalee was a drug addict :(

here you can see that Renee Gielen is working for the dutch&aruban government :
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/gielkopie.jpg?t=1207784893)


Thank you ******* and Johan

Renee Gielen - A member of the disinformation campaign ... the disinformation campaign created to distance Joran and Paulus from their participation in the events encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005 and ... to shift the focus on the mother and step-father of Natalee Holloway.

Janet

++++++++++++

Anita van der Sloot
Pauw and Witteman
January 11, 2008

 
(translated from Dutch)

Witteman: Do you think shes dead?

Anita: I don't know, I have thought for a long time that she is alive, and there ahve been indications she is.  And those facts have to be investigated.  Rene Gielen on Curacao is making a documentary, she has interviewed a lot a people, we know because she's in contact with us.  I really would like for the other side of the story to also be investigated.

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/media/jorandevries.htm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 10, 2008, 09:31:04 PM
Hi Rob..I have been reading about David Stacey in the Dutch part of forum..Is his son from Grand Blanc Michigan? Both Dad and Son are named David Stacey?

If you havent been reading the DUtch part of our forum there was some discussion on a David Stacey who was last with Max De Vries before he dissapeared...There is talk that he may have been busted for Cocaine distribution in Illinois or Michigan recently..That would be quite interesting if both him and Daury Rodriguez were both tied to the same Drug Cartel..Would it not?

We don't know all the facts yet and I was away for a week,so I am just trying to understand all I missed...It could be another David Stacey for all I know..


i even checked the child predator sites the other day and couldn't find a david stacey i was sure of.  danged little out there within my very limited research abilities.  i sure have strong feelings about what happened to max though.  nothing rang true about anthing i read except that the two of them went out and only l came back.  if max just floated off after the second waverunner went dead, both waverunners and both riders should have floated along with the same current. 
dennisintn

I see a younger David Stacey busted in 2004 for cocaine..I wonder if he is the guys son?

Police: Coke bust nabs top go-to guy

By: Ryan J. Stanton


With the money David Stacey earned selling cocaine he could more than pay his college tuition in just a few weeks time.

The 23-year-old Grand Blanc Michigansenior was pushing $5,000 a week $7,000 on a good week, police say.

We knew that he had a problem, but we didnt know the extent of it by any means, said a close friend of Staceys. He got caught up in the lifestyle the stereotypical story of the big man on campus.

His lavish lifestyle caught up with him when Michigan State Police arrested Stacey Thursday after an acquaintance of his overdosed on three grams of cocaine in Timber Creek Apartments. The 21-year-old man admitted he purchased the cocaine from Stacey.

Police and friends of Stacey agree that authorities scored big when they busted him. Stacey had been one of the top players in a growing campus cocaine ring.

Its substantial, Sgt. Dell Putnam said. From the two ounces of cocaine that was there and both (people) who we talked to and the subjects own statement to us, hes moving two to six ounces a week. Thats a lot of cocaine.

Stacey allegedly operated from his Chippewa Village apartment, where police arrested him. He was the go-to guy for many drug needs, friends say.

Hed pick up two to six ounces every week, Putnam said. Then he has his regular customers and others who were frequenting his apartment where he was selling on a regular basis to other people.

Stacey was a former member of the social fraternity Sigma Chi, but had not been a member for more than a year, members say.

Troopers seized more than two ounces of powder cocaine, cash, marijuana, packaging material and drug paraphernalia from Staceys apartment.

Stacey also had a stolen Oldsmobile in his possession, which was confiscated as collateral for a drug debt.

He was arraigned Friday in Isabella County District Court on a charge of delivery or manufacture of between 50 and 449 grams of cocaine, delivery of less than 50 grams of cocaine and possession of marijuana. A preliminary hearing has been scheduled for 8:15 a.m. Thursday.

http://media.www.cm-life.com/media/storage/paper906/news/2004/04/21/News/Police.Coke.Bust.Nabs.Top.GoTo.Guy-2493668.shtm


Alleged cocaine dealer injured in crash
By: Jen Marckini
Central Michigan Life
Issue date: 6/16/04 Section: News

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A CMU student facing charges of dealing cocaine was involved in an accident last Tuesday which left three people seriously injured.

Grand Blanc senior David Stacey was driving home on I-75 when a Detroit man crossed the median into northbound traffic colliding with Staceys Chevrolet Blazer, police said.

Michigan State Police trooper Daniel Collard said police still do not know the cause of the accident and speculate it could take a month or two determine if it was a mechanical error.

Stacey and Brett Gove, the driver of the other vehicle, were both hospitalized in the Flint area.

The accident created two other minor collisions causing police to close two lanes northbound on I-75 for approximately two hours, Collard said.

Due to the complexity and seriousness of the accident we had to shut down I-75, Collard said.

Stacey faces charges for selling cocaine on CMUs campus, and may be punished for up to 60 years in prison.

He is being charged with delivery or manufacture of between 50 and 449 grams of cocaine, delivery or manufacture of more that 50 grams of cocaine and possession of marijuana, according to Isabella County Court records.

Mount Pleasant Police said Stacey was one of the top dealers in a growing campus cocaine ring.

Stacey allegedly operated from his Chippewa Village apartment where he went to turn himself into the police on April 16.
l


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 09:34:26 PM
Hi Rob..I have been reading about David Stacey in the Dutch part of forum..Is his son from Grand Blanc Michigan? Both Dad and Son are named David Stacey?

If you haven't been reading the Dutch part of our forum there was some discussion on a David Stacey,who was last with Max De Vries before he dissapeared in Aruba...There is talk that he may have been busted for Cocaine distribution in Illinois or Michigan recently..That would be quite interesting if both him and Daury Rodriguez were both tied to the same Drug Cartel..Would it not?

We don't know all the facts yet and I was away for a week,so I am just trying to understand all I missed...It could be another David Stacey for all I know..


sorry O/T sort of..from Yvonne.

I wonder if that is the same David Stacey??
 
Jr. is from and as far as I know still lives in Alabama.
Sr. Stacey is as far as I know still in Illinois.
 
Jr, in the past did have some drug trouble with the law.
 
Aruba never checked them out. I found this out after I was in the states. 1 1/2 later.
 
Thanks for still thinking of us.
Call if you want.


by the way, I got some sort of Firefox update and it is not working at all. Don't upload it.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 10, 2008, 09:36:57 PM
Interesting about Rene'e Gielen eh Janet? She is slandering and lying about a teen age girl who was murdered..If she is working for the Dutch and Aruban Governments that is quite sickening!! I have already read her writings in Dutch where she admits to being friends of the Van Der Sloots,which we suspected anyway...This is unbelievable if true!!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: hotping on April 10, 2008, 09:46:17 PM
Here is a Daury in NJ


VINE Service Number: (877) 846-3465    Return to Search Results 
Offender Details
Offender Record
Offender ID: 0900280301 Offender Name: DAURY DANIEL RODRIGUEZ Date of Birth: 06/28/1986 Age: 21 Custody Status: In Custody Location of Offender: Hudson County Jail Race: Hispanic Gender: Male

www.vinelink.com




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 10, 2008, 09:48:33 PM
Here is a Daury in NJ


VINE Service Number: (877) 846-3465    Return to Search Results 
Offender Details
Offender Record
Offender ID: 0900280301 Offender Name: DAURY DANIEL RODRIGUEZ Date of Birth: 06/28/1986 Age: 21 Custody Status: In Custody Location of Offender: Hudson County Jail Race: Hispanic Gender: Male

www.vinelink.com




Nice find! That could be him...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: hotping on April 10, 2008, 09:49:10 PM
Here is a Daury in NJ


VINE Service Number: (877) 846-3465    Return to Search Results 
Offender Details
Offender Record
Offender ID: 0900280301 Offender Name: DAURY DANIEL RODRIGUEZ Date of Birth: 06/28/1986 Age: 21 Custody Status: In Custody Location of Offender: Hudson County Jail Race: Hispanic Gender: Male

www.vinelink.com



Edited to Add...

Agency Description:Hudson County Jail Address 1:595 Newark Ave. Address 2:City:Jersey City State/Province:NJ Zip Code:07306 County:Hudson Phone:(973) 491-5794


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 09:50:11 PM
Here is a Daury in NJ


VINE Service Number: (877) 846-3465    Return to Search Results 
Offender Details
Offender Record
Offender ID: 0900280301 Offender Name: DAURY DANIEL RODRIGUEZ Date of Birth: 06/28/1986 Age: 21 Custody Status: In Custody Location of Offender: Hudson County Jail Race: Hispanic Gender: Male

www.vinelink.com




WOW - nice work Hotping!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: vms on April 10, 2008, 09:53:26 PM
Here is a Daury in NJ


VINE Service Number: (877) 846-3465    Return to Search Results 
Offender Details
Offender Record
Offender ID: 0900280301 Offender Name: DAURY DANIEL RODRIGUEZ Date of Birth: 06/28/1986 Age: 21 Custody Status: In Custody Location of Offender: Hudson County Jail Race: Hispanic Gender: Male

www.vinelink.com



Edited to Add...

Agency Description:Hudson County Jail Address 1:595 Newark Ave. Address 2:City:Jersey City State/Province:NJ Zip Code:07306 County:Hudson Phone:(973) 491-5794

hotping! ::MonkeyDance::

Birthday
June 28
http://www.hi5.com/friend/3664670--Daury--Profile-html


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 09:54:47 PM
I'm calling


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: hotping on April 10, 2008, 09:55:25 PM
Looks like maybe a Mama and Son operation to Me


Offender Record
Offender ID: 0900277886 Offender Name: RAMONA  RODRIGUEZ Date of Birth: 11/11/1958 Age: 49 Custody Status: In Custody Location of Offender: Hudson County Jail Race: Hispanic Gender: Female

You don't think Anita and Joran had this same kind of operation do Ya...nahhh never mind  ::MonkeyConfused::



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 09:56:33 PM
I'm calling

I have the offender number, but need the booking number


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: hotping on April 10, 2008, 09:57:34 PM
I'm calling
Rob You can also go to www.vinelink.com and sign up to be alerted by email if there is a change in custody status.... ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: texasmom on April 10, 2008, 09:57:40 PM
I'm calling
::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Pita on April 10, 2008, 10:00:15 PM
Here is a Daury in NJ


VINE Service Number: (877) 846-3465    Return to Search Results 
Offender Details
Offender Record
Offender ID: 0900280301 Offender Name: DAURY DANIEL RODRIGUEZ Date of Birth: 06/28/1986 Age: 21 Custody Status: In Custody Location of Offender: Hudson County Jail Race: Hispanic Gender: Male

www.vinelink.com



Edited to Add...

Agency Description:Hudson County Jail Address 1:595 Newark Ave. Address 2:City:Jersey City State/Province:NJ Zip Code:07306 County:Hudson Phone:(973) 491-5794

hotping! ::MonkeyDance::

Birthday
June 28
http://www.hi5.com/friend/3664670--Daury--Profile-html


Great work, both of you!!!      ::MonkeyDance::     ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: hotping on April 10, 2008, 10:01:33 PM
I'm calling

I have the offender number, but need the booking number
I'm not sure but try using just the last 6 or 7 digits of the offender number....if not You can call VINE Service Number: (877) 846-3465 using the offender number.... ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: hotping on April 10, 2008, 10:05:45 PM
Thanks Everybody!  ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: texasmom on April 10, 2008, 10:06:25 PM
Here is a Daury in NJ


VINE Service Number: (877) 846-3465    Return to Search Results 
Offender Details
Offender Record
Offender ID: 0900280301 Offender Name: DAURY DANIEL RODRIGUEZ Date of Birth: 06/28/1986 Age: 21 Custody Status: In Custody Location of Offender: Hudson County Jail Race: Hispanic Gender: Male

www.vinelink.com



Edited to Add...

Agency Description:Hudson County Jail Address 1:595 Newark Ave. Address 2:City:Jersey City State/Province:NJ Zip Code:07306 County:Hudson Phone:(973) 491-5794

hotping! ::MonkeyDance::

Birthday
June 28
http://www.hi5.com/friend/3664670--Daury--Profile-html


Great work, both of you!!!      ::MonkeyDance::     ::MonkeyDance::

I agree!  ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 10, 2008, 10:08:09 PM


Interesting about Rene'e Gielen eh Janet? She is slandering and lying about a teen age girl who was murdered..If she is working for the Dutch and Aruban Governments that is quite sickening!! I have already read her writings in Dutch where she admits to being friends of the Van Der Sloots,which we suspected anyway...This is unbelievable if true!!

RENE GIELEN

July 3, 2007
The other side of the Holloway-case
Police Aruba hindered by FBI
By Michael Willemse


<snipped>

They revealed that already one day after Holloway was declared missing, a medplane (medical plane or ambulance-plane) from the US arrived on Reina Beatrix airport and was stationed for a few days in the area of the airport where private jets park. Nothing strange about that on the surface, except that the crew (two pilots, a doctor and a nurse) knew nothing about why they were there. Gielen and Van Stapele also discovered that the plane landed without authorization and was also not registered by the Aruban authorities, while the mysterious landing even though it was reported to the police in an official unsigned written testimony was subjugated by the corps to the investigation only months later.  This is also the case for other testimonies.

Read entire Beth/Jug bashing documentary at:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358710;topicseen#msg358710


Confession was a sham
Amigoe.com
02/04/2008


<snipped>

PROSECUTOR PARTS WITH DIRECTION

Which prosecutor parts with the direction and four days later, allows a crime journalist to bring his evidence into the open? is Rene Gielens reaction. The TV- and documentary producer in Curacao has been following the Holloway-case from the beginning and has announced that she is making a documentary on one of the most talked-about disappearance cases ever.

This same prosecutor (Hans Mos, red.) was not willing to listen to my findings. When last week Monday I called him for an appointment, he told me that he is very busy finishing up a case and that he has no time; he was soon leaving for the Netherlands for a few weeks and that I had to call him at the end of February. He also told me that I have all sorts of theories and only his is the correct one.

So, I cannot tell the OM or the police of my findings. Dolphi Richardson told me that the police are no longer allowed to accept anything and referred me kindly to the OM. The entire world thinks that the case stops with Joran, but the case only started after Joran left Natalee alone on the beach.

// posted by Getagrip @ 2/04/2008 10:36:00 AM 

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2008/02/confession-was-sham-amigoe.html


01/23/2008
Timeline Beth does not tally
 

WILLEMSTAD/ORANJESTAD Mother of Natalee Holloway, Beth has given incorrect information on the time she arrived in Aruba with a private jet on May 30, 2005.  This was not around 23:00, as she had said up till now also in her book published late last year but already at 19:45, says Alberto G. before the camera of the Curacao TV-producer Rene Gielen,  who is working on a documentary on the disappearance of the American teenage girl, and interviewed G. on this subject this morning.

http://www.amigoe.com/english/

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2532.msg331792#msg331792


A lot of doubts in Beth Twitty

Renee Gielen, who is working on a documentary about the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, in which is exposed that Natalee was not as saint as her mother was saying, has been doubting her more and more lately in everything Twitty is saying and continues to say.

Gielen's documentary has shown that Natalee might have had problems with alcohol and drugs addiction and had been interned in a clinic.

Things that according to Gielen, Beth never mentioned to anyone.

Now that Beth Twitty wrote a book and according to Gielen this book is to repair the image of Natalee and the Holloway family.

In the book, there is a lot of speculation, that the mother wants them to pass as the truth.

"After reading the book, I feel in all senses, that it does not reflect reality", according to Gielen.

"The lies in the book and different other shacky (dubious) things in the last 2 and a half years, made me ask myself if Beth indeed wanted Natalee to be found."

All this according to Gielen, who thinks that Beth Twitty only wanted one thing, hide Natalee's questionable behavior and the way she disappeared.  

For this, she needed a bait, and this resulted in Joran v/d Sloot, the last person that was seen with Natalee.

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_36899.php

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2338.msg299380#msg299380





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 10:09:29 PM
So Daury and his mom are part of a large heroin smuggling ring.  Wonder if Daury will tell what he knows (if anything) about what happened to Natalee?  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: hotping on April 10, 2008, 10:15:00 PM
So Daury and his mom are part of a large heroin smuggling ring.  Wonder if Daury will tell what he knows (if anything) about what happened to Natalee?  ::MonkeyWink::
Klaas...We can only Pray that He will....I believe its called Let's Make a Deal.. ::MonkeyWink:: Unless He is scared He will wind up hanging with one hand in His front pocket!  ::MonkeyNoNo::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 10, 2008, 10:18:23 PM
Here is a Daury in NJ


VINE Service Number: (877) 846-3465    Return to Search Results 
Offender Details
Offender Record
Offender ID: 0900280301 Offender Name: DAURY DANIEL RODRIGUEZ Date of Birth: 06/28/1986 Age: 21 Custody Status: In Custody Location of Offender: Hudson County Jail Race: Hispanic Gender: Male

www.vinelink.com



Edited to Add...

Agency Description:Hudson County Jail Address 1:595 Newark Ave. Address 2:City:Jersey City State/Province:NJ Zip Code:07306 County:Hudson Phone:(973) 491-5794

hotping! ::MonkeyDance::

Birthday
June 28
http://www.hi5.com/friend/3664670--Daury--Profile-html

 ::MonkeyShocked::

Unbelieveable!!! 

hotping  ... is there a link within the link you provided that would give a date that Daury was arrested?

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 10, 2008, 10:19:10 PM
I'm calling

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyCool::

Hands phone to Rob....go for it!!! ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: hotping on April 10, 2008, 10:25:22 PM
Here is a Daury in NJ


VINE Service Number: (877) 846-3465    Return to Search Results 
Offender Details
Offender Record
Offender ID: 0900280301 Offender Name: DAURY DANIEL RODRIGUEZ Date of Birth: 06/28/1986 Age: 21 Custody Status: In Custody Location of Offender: Hudson County Jail Race: Hispanic Gender: Male

www.vinelink.com



Edited to Add...

Agency Description:Hudson County Jail Address 1:595 Newark Ave. Address 2:City:Jersey City State/Province:NJ Zip Code:07306 County:Hudson Phone:(973) 491-5794

hotping! ::MonkeyDance::

Birthday
June 28
http://www.hi5.com/friend/3664670--Daury--Profile-html

 ::MonkeyShocked::

Unbelieveable!!! 

hotping  ... is there a link within the link you provided that would give a date that Daury was arrested?

Janet
The website doesn't give that Information but I believe that the 800 number that I posted will give court information and it might give an arrest date....sometimes You can get a live operator on the line and they will tell You alot if You are really nice to Them... ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 10, 2008, 10:32:53 PM
I'll call in the morning... the 973 number is not answering.. I tried the 877 number a few times and it didn't work without a booking number...I have the offender numb3er but we need the next group of numbers.

so, I'll call the 973 in the morning or we need a booking number.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: dennisintn on April 10, 2008, 10:34:25 PM


Interesting about Rene'e Gielen eh Janet? She is slandering and lying about a teen age girl who was murdered..If she is working for the Dutch and Aruban Governments that is quite sickening!! I have already read her writings in Dutch where she admits to being friends of the Van Der Sloots,which we suspected anyway...This is unbelievable if true!!

RENE GIELEN

July 3, 2007
The other side of the Holloway-case
Police Aruba hindered by FBI
By Michael Willemse


<snipped>

They revealed that already one day after Holloway was declared missing, a medplane (medical plane or ambulance-plane) from the US arrived on Reina Beatrix airport and was stationed for a few days in the area of the airport where private jets park. Nothing strange about that on the surface, except that the crew (two pilots, a doctor and a nurse) knew nothing about why they were there. Gielen and Van Stapele also discovered that the plane landed without authorization and was also not registered by the Aruban authorities, while the mysterious landing even though it was reported to the police in an official unsigned written testimony was subjugated by the corps to the investigation only months later.  This is also the case for other testimonies.

Read entire Beth/Jug bashing documentary at:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358710;topicseen#msg358710


Confession was a sham
Amigoe.com
02/04/2008


<snipped>

PROSECUTOR PARTS WITH DIRECTION

Which prosecutor parts with the direction and four days later, allows a crime journalist to bring his evidence into the open? is Rene Gielens reaction. The TV- and documentary producer in Curacao has been following the Holloway-case from the beginning and has announced that she is making a documentary on one of the most talked-about disappearance cases ever.

This same prosecutor (Hans Mos, red.) was not willing to listen to my findings. When last week Monday I called him for an appointment, he told me that he is very busy finishing up a case and that he has no time; he was soon leaving for the Netherlands for a few weeks and that I had to call him at the end of February. He also told me that I have all sorts of theories and only his is the correct one.

So, I cannot tell the OM or the police of my findings. Dolphi Richardson told me that the police are no longer allowed to accept anything and referred me kindly to the OM. The entire world thinks that the case stops with Joran, but the case only started after Joran left Natalee alone on the beach.

// posted by Getagrip @ 2/04/2008 10:36:00 AM 

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2008/02/confession-was-sham-amigoe.html


01/23/2008
Timeline Beth does not tally
 

WILLEMSTAD/ORANJESTAD Mother of Natalee Holloway, Beth has given incorrect information on the time she arrived in Aruba with a private jet on May 30, 2005.  This was not around 23:00, as she had said up till now also in her book published late last year but already at 19:45, says Alberto G. before the camera of the Curacao TV-producer Rene Gielen,  who is working on a documentary on the disappearance of the American teenage girl, and interviewed G. on this subject this morning.

http://www.amigoe.com/english/

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2532.msg331792#msg331792


A lot of doubts in Beth Twitty

Renee Gielen, who is working on a documentary about the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, in which is exposed that Natalee was not as saint as her mother was saying, has been doubting her more and more lately in everything Twitty is saying and continues to say.

Gielen's documentary has shown that Natalee might have had problems with alcohol and drugs addiction and had been interned in a clinic.

Things that according to Gielen, Beth never mentioned to anyone.

Now that Beth Twitty wrote a book and according to Gielen this book is to repair the image of Natalee and the Holloway family.

In the book, there is a lot of speculation, that the mother wants them to pass as the truth.

"After reading the book, I feel in all senses, that it does not reflect reality", according to Gielen.

"The lies in the book and different other shacky (dubious) things in the last 2 and a half years, made me ask myself if Beth indeed wanted Natalee to be found."

All this according to Gielen, who thinks that Beth Twitty only wanted one thing, hide Natalee's questionable behavior and the way she disappeared.  

For this, she needed a bait, and this resulted in Joran v/d Sloot, the last person that was seen with Natalee.

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_36899.php

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2338.msg299380#msg299380





i'm not one to throw around disparaging words about women.  i like and respect 99% of all the women i've ever dealt with in my life.  but i cannot for the life of me think of rene gielen or julia renfro without the words "media whore" coming to mind.  i'll understand if you want to censor this, but i had to say it. 
dennisintn


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 10:37:50 PM
Dennis - you used kinder words than I would have  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: casa on April 10, 2008, 10:39:00 PM
dennis, it is ok to say that about them. They in no way represent respectable women!  I won't say what I think about them!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 10, 2008, 10:41:17 PM
So Daury and his mom are part of a large heroin smuggling ring.  Wonder if Daury will tell what he knows (if anything) about what happened to Natalee?  ::MonkeyWink::

Klaas ... I am missing something.

What makes you think that Daury Rodriguez has any connection to the Natalee Holloway case.

Janet

+++++++++++

Mystery Man in Holloway Case Comes Forward
Man Named As Accomplice By Van der Sloot Denies Involvement in Aruba Disappearance

By ELIZABETH VARGAS & CHRIS FRANCESCANI
ABC News Law & Justice Unit
ORANJESTAD, Aruba
Feb. 4, 2008

Rodriguez, who grew up on Aruba and played soccer with Van der Sloot when both men were teenagers, said he was angry that his name had been dragged into the case. He said he met with detectives investigating Holloway's disappearance on Monday morning, and that he told them he was living in Rotterdam, Holland in May 2005, when Holloway went missing.

Rodriguez retained an Aruban lawyer when he realized he was implicated in the case, and said he asked the biographer to put him in touch with Van der Sloot, but she refused.

Rodriguez said he played soccer with Van der Sloot when the pair were about 16 years old, and that, while he knew him as an acquaintance, he would never call him a friend.

He said they played poker together at a local casino late last year after Van der Sloot was released from his second arrest.

Rodriguez's attorney Chris Lejuez said his client was born in Colombia, but moved to Aruba as a child when his mother married an Aruban man. Lejuez said Rodriguez moved to Rotterdam to attend trade school in 2004, and stayed on through June or July of 2007, working there. Rodriguez returned to Aruba in January and December of 2005 for vacation, but was not on the island for months before or after Holloway's disappearance.

He told ABC News he never owned a boat. "I never had one, and I don't have one,'' he said.

Asked how he could prove his whereabouts during 2005, Rodriguez said that ATMs he had used in Rotterdam could show he was there in May 2005.

Lejuez said he provided investigators with the name of the trade school Rodriguez had attended and the company he later worked for in Rotterdam.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=2
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=3


Beth Twitty/Peter Devries
Geraldo At Large
February 10, 2008


Geraldo:

And again, run that little clip of Joran confessing to what he did, run it now.

(play videotape)

There is Joran explaining his accomplice, this Daury and the advice the alleged accomplice gave to Joran for the next day, to behave normally, go to school Joran, he even says he's going to go to the casino so the surveillance cameras will catch him.

Who do you think really gave him that advice to act normally the next day, go to school and even go to the casino?

Beth:

Geraldo, when I'm hearing those words "you need to go to school tomorrow' 'act normal' "I'm going to take this person's name to my grave with me" obvioiusly Joran's not in his grave yet, so I'm not sure if we've gotten to the bottom of just who came to help Joran to dispose of Natalee's body. Sounds like to me it could be a parent, who knows, maybe his father.

Geraldo:

Peter I know this is now verging on speculation but when you hear it in English, it sounds an awful lot like the advice a parent would give a son; also the name of the person you take to the grave isn't some hangout buddy, it's your dad.

Transcript: Heli (RU)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2591.msg347111


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: hotping on April 10, 2008, 10:46:22 PM
Daury Daniel Rodriguez was Booked into he Hudson County Jail on March 7 2008 this is all that They would tell Me at this time.... ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Blue Moon on April 10, 2008, 10:47:07 PM
Quote:

"Asked how he could prove his whereabouts during 2005, Rodriguez said that ATMs he had used in Rotterdam could show he was there in May 2005."

Interesting that Daury brings up ATM during that time frame.  Maybe Paulus wired money or better yet maybe Anita had money transferred into his account in the NL.   Maybe the ATM activity was from Paulus transferring money to him.  Drugs is definitely involved in all this.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 10, 2008, 10:49:19 PM
Here is a Daury in NJ


VINE Service Number: (877) 846-3465    Return to Search Results 
Offender Details
Offender Record
Offender ID: 0900280301 Offender Name: DAURY DANIEL RODRIGUEZ Date of Birth: 06/28/1986 Age: 21 Custody Status: In Custody Location of Offender: Hudson County Jail Race: Hispanic Gender: Male

www.vinelink.com



Edited to Add...

Agency Description:Hudson County Jail Address 1:595 Newark Ave. Address 2:City:Jersey City State/Province:NJ Zip Code:07306 County:Hudson Phone:(973) 491-5794

hotping! ::MonkeyDance::

Birthday
June 28
http://www.hi5.com/friend/3664670--Daury--Profile-html

 ::MonkeyShocked::

Unbelieveable!!! 

hotping  ... is there a link within the link you provided that would give a date that Daury was arrested?

Janet
The website doesn't give that Information but I believe that the 800 number that I posted will give court information and it might give an arrest date....sometimes You can get a live operator on the line and they will tell You alot if You are really nice to Them... ::MonkeyWink::

Then you talk very sweet.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thanks again.  Great Detective work!   ::MonkeyDance::

vms ... you too.  Backup is where it is at as far as Tamikosmom is concerned.  I know that must surprise all you Monkeys.

 ::MonkeyRoll::

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 10:50:46 PM
So Daury and his mom are part of a large heroin smuggling ring.  Wonder if Daury will tell what he knows (if anything) about what happened to Natalee?  ::MonkeyWink::

Klaas ... I am missing something.

What makes you think that Daury Rodriguez has any connection to the Natalee Holloway case.

Janet

+++++++++++

Mystery Man in Holloway Case Comes Forward
Man Named As Accomplice By Van der Sloot Denies Involvement in Aruba Disappearance

By ELIZABETH VARGAS & CHRIS FRANCESCANI
ABC News Law & Justice Unit
ORANJESTAD, Aruba
Feb. 4, 2008

Rodriguez, who grew up on Aruba and played soccer with Van der Sloot when both men were teenagers, said he was angry that his name had been dragged into the case. He said he met with detectives investigating Holloway's disappearance on Monday morning, and that he told them he was living in Rotterdam, Holland in May 2005, when Holloway went missing.

Rodriguez retained an Aruban lawyer when he realized he was implicated in the case, and said he asked the biographer to put him in touch with Van der Sloot, but she refused.

Rodriguez said he played soccer with Van der Sloot when the pair were about 16 years old, and that, while he knew him as an acquaintance, he would never call him a friend.

He said they played poker together at a local casino late last year after Van der Sloot was released from his second arrest.

Rodriguez's attorney Chris Lejuez said his client was born in Colombia, but moved to Aruba as a child when his mother married an Aruban man. Lejuez said Rodriguez moved to Rotterdam to attend trade school in 2004, and stayed on through June or July of 2007, working there. Rodriguez returned to Aruba in January and December of 2005 for vacation, but was not on the island for months before or after Holloway's disappearance.

He told ABC News he never owned a boat. "I never had one, and I don't have one,'' he said.

Asked how he could prove his whereabouts during 2005, Rodriguez said that ATMs he had used in Rotterdam could show he was there in May 2005.

Lejuez said he provided investigators with the name of the trade school Rodriguez had attended and the company he later worked for in Rotterdam.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=2
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=3


Beth Twitty/Peter Devries
Geraldo At Large
February 10, 2008


Geraldo:

And again, run that little clip of Joran confessing to what he did, run it now.

(play videotape)

There is Joran explaining his accomplice, this Daury and the advice the alleged accomplice gave to Joran for the next day, to behave normally, go to school Joran, he even says he's going to go to the casino so the surveillance cameras will catch him.

Who do you think really gave him that advice to act normally the next day, go to school and even go to the casino?

Beth:

Geraldo, when I'm hearing those words "you need to go to school tomorrow' 'act normal' "I'm going to take this person's name to my grave with me" obvioiusly Joran's not in his grave yet, so I'm not sure if we've gotten to the bottom of just who came to help Joran to dispose of Natalee's body. Sounds like to me it could be a parent, who knows, maybe his father.

Geraldo:

Peter I know this is now verging on speculation but when you hear it in English, it sounds an awful lot like the advice a parent would give a son; also the name of the person you take to the grave isn't some hangout buddy, it's your dad.

Transcript: Heli (RU)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2591.msg347111

Well just because he claims he has proof doesn't make is so.  Also, even if he wasn't there it's possible Joran was involved in Daury's drug dealings.  It's also possible Daury knows what happened even if he was'nt there.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 10, 2008, 10:51:23 PM
Daury Daniel Rodriguez was Booked into he Hudson County Jail on March 7 2008 this is all that They would tell Me at this time.... ::MonkeyWink::

 ::MonkeyShocked::

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 10:53:22 PM
Daury Daniel Rodriguez was Booked into he Hudson County Jail on March 7 2008 this is all that They would tell Me at this time.... ::MonkeyWink::

Ok...Thanks!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: hotping on April 10, 2008, 10:58:22 PM
Does anyone know the date the Persistence left Aruba? Was it on March the 6th or 8th? TIA


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 10, 2008, 11:00:44 PM

Well just because he claims he has proof doesn't make is so.  Also, even if he wasn't there it's possible Joran was involved in Daury's drug dealings.  It's also possible Daury knows what happened even if he was'nt there.

Klaas ... I am just attempting to understand why Daury's arrest on drug charges in New Jersey has changed anything.

If yesterday the consensus was that in all probability "Daury" was "Paulus" ...

Am I making sense?  I feel I am in the twilight zone.

Jane



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 11:03:37 PM
Does anyone know the date the Persistence left Aruba? Was it on March the 6th or 8th? TIA

Nope, March 3rd:

Update: Mon 03-March 1345 hrs
With the sonar search completed, the RV Persistence sets sail heading to its home port in Louisiana. With mixed emotions, the search team returns home. When we arrived in Aruba in mid-December we were mentally prepared to return home either having found Natalee, or after having exhausted all possibilities in the quest to find her. It is difficult going home with many questions left unanswered and so many sonar targets remaining to be explored. Our comfort lies in knowledge that we have done the best job we could, that we can return to dive on the remaining targets when funded, and that answers may come in time. We feel that the search is not over but rather entering a new phase. We are thankful for the outpouring of generosity, love, support, and prayers throughout the entire search effort.
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: hotping on April 10, 2008, 11:05:18 PM
Does anyone know the date the Persistence left Aruba? Was it on March the 6th or 8th? TIA

Nope, March 3rd:

Update: Mon 03-March 1345 hrs
With the sonar search completed, the RV Persistence sets sail heading to its home port in Louisiana. With mixed emotions, the search team returns home. When we arrived in Aruba in mid-December we were mentally prepared to return home either having found Natalee, or after having exhausted all possibilities in the quest to find her. It is difficult going home with many questions left unanswered and so many sonar targets remaining to be explored. Our comfort lies in knowledge that we have done the best job we could, that we can return to dive on the remaining targets when funded, and that answers may come in time. We feel that the search is not over but rather entering a new phase. We are thankful for the outpouring of generosity, love, support, and prayers throughout the entire search effort.
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/
TY!  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 11:05:29 PM

Well just because he claims he has proof doesn't make is so.  Also, even if he wasn't there it's possible Joran was involved in Daury's drug dealings.  It's also possible Daury knows what happened even if he was'nt there.

Klaas ... I am just attempting to understand why Daury's arrest on drug charges in New Jersey has changed anything.

If yesterday the consensus was that in all probability "Daury" was "Paulus" ...

Am I making sense?  I feel I am in the twilight zone.

Jane



Yes you are making sense.  But if Joran is involved at all with Daury somehow it could all tie together.  We don't know if it was Daury or Paulus or Joran by himself.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: jackb on April 10, 2008, 11:05:47 PM
I am still confused as to when Daury R. was arrested in the USA?  Help?
 

Maybe Joran took a fall here.  We do not know.  It would be interesting if he was scooting around in FLA and got busted.  It is according to whom he owes justice to and where he was acturally picked up and for what.  The last place anyone would want the pro H/T camps to know is if he is HERE.  He may have ragged on Daury and got him busted and/or he was using Daury's name and got busted.  He could have been with Daury.  It would be nice to know about the traveling.  He may have been behind the drug bust, or a part of it.  His whereabouts is being kept a major secrete and that leads me to think USA.  The Martin ites would welcome him, most likely, to Thiland,but he seems to like to operate in known waters.  He is pretty young to have much of a syndicate going on his own and his mouth is too big for him to be trusted.  It does make me wonder.  I doubt if his life is anywhere near normal, as his addictions and lack of self-control will no go away over night.  His parents have little or no say in his activities, as they are only in name and for his security.  The parents seems to have one goal in mind and that would be to make themselves look like upstanding citizens.  I believe that it is too late for that.  Joran and Palus gave themselves over to evil and it has gone to the wages that comes from their evil lives.   j/b 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 10, 2008, 11:10:16 PM
Does anyone know the date the Persistence left Aruba? Was it on March the 6th or 8th? TIA

Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -  on: March 01, 2008, 06:29:25 PM
 
Greetings all.  We fly out of Aruba tomorrow.  The Persistence will head out in a couple days. 
 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: hotping on April 10, 2008, 11:12:30 PM
I am still confused as to when Daury R. was arrested in the USA?  Help?
I found out tonight that Daury Daniel Rodriguez was booked into the Hudson County Jail in NJ on March 7 2008 but please keep in mind that it can take 24 hours in some county jails to process the offender so it might have been March 6th that He was actually arrested..... ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: hotping on April 10, 2008, 11:17:39 PM
I wonder if this has any relevance:

Cops: Woman busted in Secaucus with $500K in heroin
by Michaelangelo Conte
Thursday January 10, 2008, 7:19 PM


                           (http://blog.nj.com/hudsoncountynow_impact/2008/01/large_ZRRODR.jpg)
                                                                                  Pamela Suchy
Ramona Rodriguez-Tejada is arraigned via video link this morning from the Hudson County jail in Kearny.

An Aruban woman was busted with eight kilograms of heroin as she boarded a bus at the Harmon Cove Mall in Secaucus yesterday and police say she was connected to an international trafficking network with ties to Holland.

A distraught Ramona Rodriguez-Tejeda, 49, made her first appearance yesterday at Central Judicial Processing Court in Jersey City on drug distribution charges. She could face up to 20 years in prison, said Lt. Mark Kelly, commander of the State Police Drug Traffic Unit in Newark.

She appeared in court via video link from Hudson County jail in Kearny and she was so distraught during the appearance that she was later taken away for medical attention. He bail was set at $1 million cash only by state Superior Court Judge Kevin Callahan.

Kelly said the heroin has a wholesale value of about $520,000 but once processed and packaged for sale on the streets it will be worth twice that much.

Rodriguez-Tejeda, who also uses an address in Brooklyn, was charged with first-degree
possession of illegal drugs and first-degree possession with attempt to distribute, said Kelly.

Kelly declined to specify how troopers learned of the shipment.

http://www.nj.com/hudsoncountynow/index.ssf/2008/01/cops_woman_busted_in_secaucus.html



Pita - great find!

Thank you, Klaas!   ::MonkeyCool::
This article says that Ramona was very upset about being arrested....I believe that She may have know something about Natalee's case...just maybe She is talking... Let's Make A Deal....JMO....I Pray this is the case..... ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: jackb on April 10, 2008, 11:22:27 PM
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8184/beachtennisvd8.jpg)
Is it Joran or Valentijin?
 

Whoever he is seems to havee typed-like lettering (tattoo?) on the right side of his neck.   j/b


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 11:23:43 PM
FYI - I created a separate thread regarding Daury and his mothers arrests.  We can still post stuff here, I just wanted to have most of it in one place.  I'll copy pertinent stuff over to that thread  ::MonkeyWink::

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2783.0


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/1LOCK.gif)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on April 10, 2008, 11:30:41 PM
FYI - I created a separate thread regarding Daury and his mothers arrests.  We can still post stuff here, I just wanted to have most of it in one place.  I'll copy pertinent stuff over to that thread  ::MonkeyWink::

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2783.0


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/1LOCK.gif)

Phew...good thinking because I was just catching up and found so much I missed...thanks, Klaas.

Good work vms, hotping and all.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: jackb on April 10, 2008, 11:34:28 PM
Here is a Daury in NJ


VINE Service Number: (877) 846-3465    Return to Search Results 
Offender Details
Offender Record
Offender ID: 0900280301 Offender Name: DAURY DANIEL RODRIGUEZ Date of Birth: 06/28/1986 Age: 21 Custody Status: In Custody Location of Offender: Hudson County Jail Race: Hispanic Gender: Male

www.vinelink.com



Edited to Add...

Agency Description:Hudson County Jail Address 1:595 Newark Ave. Address 2:City:Jersey City State/Province:NJ Zip Code:07306 County:Hudson Phone:(973) 491-5794

hotping! ::MonkeyDance::

Birthday
June 28
http://www.hi5.com/friend/3664670--Daury--Profile-html


Great work, both of you!!!      ::MonkeyDance::     ::MonkeyDance::

Maybe this Daniel left the Lions Den alive too.  Also, anyone could use his C card, (the Daury mentioned) if he let them have it to provide an alibi that he was using it, therefore that supposed to have been him in Holland.  Dopplegangers galore.   j/b


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 10, 2008, 11:35:09 PM
Not sure if this posted yet...

   
Great news last week: the family Van der Sloot by Bram Moszkowicz towed to the court. Joran and his parents must explain what they are getuigenverhoren of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway know. Joran and his parents must explain what they are getuigenverhoren of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway know. It is the overture to a megaclaim by Beth Twitty, the mother of Natalee. It is the overture to a megaclaim by Beth Twitty, the mother of Natalee.

'But we have not yet received a summons, "responds Bert de Rooij, lawyer of Joran. 'But we have not yet received a summons, "responds Bert de Rooij, lawyer of Joran. Civil procedure would have the advantage that Joran is not as in the criminal law on his right to silence can professions. A civil procedure would have the advantage that Joran is not as in the criminal law on his right to silence can professions. De Rooij thinks otherwise. De Rooij thinks otherwise. "It seems to me that Joran now might be compelled statements." It seems to me that Joran might now be compelled statements. We do not know where the case will play and which law applies. "We do not know where the case will play and which law applies. "

According to Moszkowicz, Beth shockschade ago by the statements from Joran in the broadcast of Peter R. According to Moszkowicz, Beth shockschade ago by the statements from Joran in the broadcast of Peter R. De Vries. De Vries. They told Joran Natalee that he had dumped in the sea. They told Joran Natalee that he had dumped in the sea. "But those calls were conducted in a confidential setting and are beyond the control of Joran order made public. "But those calls were conducted in a confidential setting and are beyond the control of Joran order made public. If anyone is responsible for the shockschade I would say that Peter R. If anyone is responsible for the shockschade I would say that Peter R. de Vries, "believes De Rooij. De Vries," believes De Rooij.

Messages in De Telegraaf that Joran would be included in a psychiatric institution in Den Dolder, the lawyer confirm nor deny. Messages in De Telegraaf that Joran would be included in a psychiatric institution in Den Dolder, the lawyer confirm nor deny. A source of Revu says that the information comes from a patient from the clinic.

Stan de Jong

http://www.revu.nl/11108.Opmaat_megaclaim_moeder_Natalee



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 11:35:47 PM
I wonder if that's another reason Joran suddenly went hiding in a mental facility?  He mentioned Daury's name and brought the spot light onto a heroin smuggler  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 10, 2008, 11:38:24 PM
******* -  Johan posted a bunch of photos of Den Dolder in the Dutch thread today.  Johan thinks he's there too  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: hotping on April 10, 2008, 11:46:13 PM
Does anyone know the date the Persistence left Aruba? Was it on March the 6th or 8th? TIA

Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -  on: March 01, 2008, 06:29:25 PM
 
Greetings all.  We fly out of Aruba tomorrow.  The Persistence will head out in a couple days. 
 

Thank You Janet!  ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: GrannyToad on April 10, 2008, 11:49:01 PM
Daury's dowry. Hey, didn't Freddy's mother remarry to a Rodriquez? And back in the olden days, RWV had a really awful misogynist name of Rodriquez. Gah, the names' nearly as common as Croes!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: hotping on April 10, 2008, 11:51:55 PM
Klaas I noticed on the new Daury thread You put his name as Daury David should be Daury Daniel...... ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 10, 2008, 11:57:56 PM
Daury's dowry. Hey, didn't Freddy's mother remarry to a Rodriquez? And back in the olden days, RWV had a really awful misogynist name of Rodriquez. Gah, the names' nearly as common as Croes!

Freddy's Mom has so many names..I'M not sure who she married..Is her maiden name Rodriguez? ::MonkeyConfused::

LILIAN REGINA ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Magnolia on April 11, 2008, 12:08:30 AM
Can someone tell me how we know that the woman arrested
in January getting on the bus with heroin is Daury's mother?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 11, 2008, 12:08:58 AM
I wonder if that's another reason Joran suddenly went hiding in a mental facility?  He mentioned Daury's name and brought the spot light onto a heroin smuggler  ::MonkeyWink::

Hmmm ... I don't think so.

Daury enjoyed the spotlight and ... made sure it continued to shine one him following the airing of the Devries video recording.  When you consider the ABC interview ...

Back atcha ...  ::MonkeyWink::

Good night my friend ... Good night Monkeys.
9:00 PM

Janet

+++++++++++

Mystery Man in Holloway Case Comes Forward
Man Named As Accomplice By Van der Sloot Denies Involvement in Aruba Disappearance

By ELIZABETH VARGAS & CHRIS FRANCESCANI
ABC News Law & Justice Unit
ORANJESTAD, Aruba
Feb. 4, 2008


http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=2
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=3


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: texasmom on April 11, 2008, 12:12:04 AM
Daury's dowry. Hey, didn't Freddy's mother remarry to a Rodriquez? And back in the olden days, RWV had a really awful misogynist name of Rodriquez. Gah, the names' nearly as common as Croes!

Freddy's Mom has so many names..I'M not sure who she married..Is her maiden name Rodriguez? ::MonkeyConfused::

LILIAN REGINA ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT
::MonkeyConfused:: I'm not sure either *******, I thought her maiden name might have been Arambatzis if Freddy's name is really Freddy Zedan; since he had the Arambatzis added on for flavor (or to confuse!) I guess.  Did she not ever marry a Zedan?  Or maybe Zedan is her maiden name....
 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: wreck on April 11, 2008, 12:12:58 AM
Well, well, well! Things have suddenly turned interesting again!!!! ...................... maybe this little revelation we have uncovered is the reason for the "eerie silence" we have been experiencing the last month!!!  ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: SS on April 11, 2008, 12:13:27 AM
Daury couldn't have been arrested in Roselle, Elizabeth, Manville, or at the airport.  Those locations are in Union, Essex, and Somerset Counties.  His arrest had to have been in Hudson County for him to be in the Hudson County jail.  My guess would be that he and his mother have a residence somewhere in the Secaucus area. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 11, 2008, 12:13:48 AM
Can someone tell me how we know that the woman arrested
in January getting on the bus with heroin is Daury's mother?

I'm trying to figure that out to Magnolia.  Hey ... I still cannot figure out how the arrest of Daury on drug charges in New Jersey changes anything in regards to the Natalee Holloway case.

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

Maybe after a good night sleep and ... a cuppa strong black morning coffee to clear the cobweb will allow the light to shine.  So Ducky and I will be off.  The skies are clear tonight in Western Canada ... our flight to Lala land will be pleasant.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: hotping on April 11, 2008, 12:19:12 AM
Can someone tell me how we know that the woman arrested
in January getting on the bus with heroin is Daury's mother?
Magnolia I have to admit that I might have started it by saying in My earlier post that it looked like a Mama and Son operation....it was actually speculation on My part....her age is about right at 49yrs to be Daury's mother....sorry for the confusion.... ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyShocked::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: texasmom on April 11, 2008, 12:19:25 AM
Can someone tell me how we know that the woman arrested
in January getting on the bus with heroin is Daury's mother?

Good question, Magnolia.  I don't think we actually know that yet.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 11, 2008, 12:20:08 AM
I havent seen anything yet that says that is Daury's Mother but since they are both from Aruba,they have the same last name,and both were busted in New Jersey for 8 kilos of heroin... I thinks its more then likely they are related..

That was roughly a million dollars in Heroin in street value..Who supplied them with that much uncut Heroin?





Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: texasmom on April 11, 2008, 12:22:19 AM



Goodnight Janet.   ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Magnolia on April 11, 2008, 12:23:49 AM
Can someone tell me how we know that the woman arrested
in January getting on the bus with heroin is Daury's mother?
Magnolia I have to admit that I might have started it by saying in My earlier post that it looked like a Mama and Son operation....it was actually speculation on My part....her age is about right at 49yrs to be Daury's mother....sorry for the confusion.... ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyShocked::

You did great work finding the arrest record for Daury.

I remember the story of the woman arrested in January.
I thought how stupid to get on a bus with that much heroin.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 11, 2008, 12:24:15 AM
I havent seen anything yet that says that is Daury's Mother but since they are both from Aruba,they have the same last name,and both were busted in New Jersey for 8 kilos of heroin I thinks its more then likely they are related..





Posted by Capslock:

Quote
Klassend:

The info will be here short..


First his name is not Daury. that is his call name at home and everyone cal him so

Second. He was going to a poken tournament....<<<<GAMBLING>>>> Associating to who.

Third. his mother is in New Jersey.

Fourh: Lives in Catiri and Moko.   will be checked. lives between his step father house and mother house.

and is a poker gambler. 

more later.....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: wreck on April 11, 2008, 12:25:52 AM
My take is that this "Daury" still might not have any connection to Natalee that night. What I think MAY be possible is that Joran really screwed up and "blamed" Daury as the "abettor" to the crime (to Patrick).
Daury was the LAST person Joran should have brought into this!
Now Joran has a big time Heroine pusher (and his cohorts) royally pissed at him -- enough for Joran going into SERIOUS hiding.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 11, 2008, 12:28:52 AM
If there is a connect between Romona's arrest in January and ... Daury's arrest in March ... why was Daury not detained in February when he did the ABC interview.

Good Night ... I mean it this time.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet
9:30 PM

++++++++

Mystery Man in Holloway Case Comes Forward
Man Named As Accomplice By Van der Sloot Denies Involvement in Aruba Disappearance

By ELIZABETH VARGAS & CHRIS FRANCESCANI
ABC News Law & Justice Unit
ORANJESTAD, Aruba
Feb. 4, 2008


http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=2
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=3


 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 11, 2008, 12:31:25 AM
If there is a connect between Romona's arrest in January and ... Daury's arrest in March ... why was Daury not detained in February when he did the ABC interview.

Good Night ... I mean it this time.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet
9:30 PM

++++++++

Mystery Man in Holloway Case Comes Forward
Man Named As Accomplice By Van der Sloot Denies Involvement in Aruba Disappearance

By ELIZABETH VARGAS & CHRIS FRANCESCANI
ABC News Law & Justice Unit
ORANJESTAD, Aruba
Feb. 4, 2008


http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=2
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=3


 

Because he did the ABC interview from Aruba and not from the US.  Keep in mind that Daury didn't know he was going to be arrested.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 11, 2008, 12:37:21 AM
My take is that this "Daury" still might not have any connection to Natalee that night. What I think MAY be possible is that Joran really screwed up and "blamed" Daury as the "abettor" to the crime (to Patrick).
Daury was the LAST person Joran should have brought into this!
Now Joran has a big time Heroine pusher (and his cohorts) royally pissed at him -- enough for Joran going into SERIOUS hiding.

Yup..I think the Drug Cartel and Angry Dutch people is all he's worried about..Obviously he isn't concerned about being prosecuted for what he did to Natalee..He knows the Government and the "Higher Power's" have his back..


Joran screwed up Big time by putting the spotlight on Daury .. ::MonkeyDance:: Getting caught with 8 kilos of Heroin in the states is a very long prison sentence..Daury isn't in Chollerstad anymore  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 11, 2008, 12:37:38 AM

I havent seen anything yet that says that is Daury's Mother but since they are both from Aruba,they have the same last name,and both were busted in New Jersey for 8 kilos of heroin I thinks its more then likely they are related..


Posted by Capslock:

Quote
Klassend:

The info will be here short..

First his name is not Daury. that is his call name at home and everyone cal him so

Second. He was going to a poken tournament....<<<<GAMBLING>>>> Associating to who.

Third. his mother is in New Jersey.

Fourh: Lives in Catiri and Moko.   will be checked. lives between his step father house and mother house.

and is a poker gambler. 

more later.....

Daury's mother might live in New Jersey but ... Ramona Rodriguez-Tejada ... no mention of residency in New Jersey.

Janet

+++++++++++++++++++

Authorities seize 8 kilograms of heroin worth more than $500K
10 January 2008


SEACAUCUS, New Jersey. - Authorities seized 8 kilograms of heroin and arrested a woman as part an ongoing probe into a case with suspected international ties.

State Police Lt. Mark Kelly said Ramona Rodriguez-Tejada, 49, was arrested Wednesday as she attempted to board a bus in Secaucus. He says the powdered heroin she allegedly possessed is worth an estimated $520,000 and likely was smuggled through Aruba.

Kelly says the woman is a native of the Dominican Republic, but has Aruban citizenship and addresses in Brooklyn. Shes being held at the Hudson County Jail on $1 million bail.

Authorities believe the case also has ties to Holland and Haiti, and are continuing their investigation.

The reproduction, the redistribution or the syndication of the above text, in whole, part or in any form, requires the prior consent of Associated Press.

http://www.haiti-info.com/spip.php?article4451


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 11, 2008, 12:39:46 AM
If there is a connect between Romona's arrest in January and ... Daury's arrest in March ... why was Daury not detained in February when he did the ABC interview.

Good Night ... I mean it this time.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet
9:30 PM

++++++++

Mystery Man in Holloway Case Comes Forward
Man Named As Accomplice By Van der Sloot Denies Involvement in Aruba Disappearance

By ELIZABETH VARGAS & CHRIS FRANCESCANI
ABC News Law & Justice Unit
ORANJESTAD, Aruba
Feb. 4, 2008


http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=2
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=3


Because he did the ABC interview from Aruba and not from the US.  Keep in mind that Daury didn't know he was going to be arrested.

I did not realize that this interview took place in Aruba.  That is why I was wonder why he was arrested in February.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Janet


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: hotping on April 11, 2008, 12:43:43 AM
My take is that this "Daury" still might not have any connection to Natalee that night. What I think MAY be possible is that Joran really screwed up and "blamed" Daury as the "abettor" to the crime (to Patrick).
Daury was the LAST person Joran should have brought into this!
Now Joran has a big time Heroine pusher (and his cohorts) royally pissed at him -- enough for Joran going into SERIOUS hiding.

Yup..I think the Drug Cartel and Angry Dutch people is all he's worried about..Obviously he isn't concerned about being prosecuted for what he did to Natalee..He knows the Government and the "Higher Power's" have his back..


Joran screwed up Big time by putting the spotlight on Daury .. ::MonkeyDance:: Getting caught with 8 kilos of Heroin in the states is a very long prison sentence..Daury isn't in Chollerstad anymore  ::MonkeyWink::
What goes around comes around! Back At Ya Joran! ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyLaugh::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Magnolia on April 11, 2008, 12:51:12 AM
I would think that if the woman busted with 8 kilos was Daury's
mother, any relative of hers would be on a watch list of people
entering the US.  Drug dealers would know this and lay low. IMO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: hotping on April 11, 2008, 12:54:59 AM
I would think that if the woman busted with 8 kilos was Daury's
mother, any relative of hers would be on a watch list of people
entering the US.  Drug dealers would know this and lay low. IMO
Makes sense to Me Magnolia.....I really think that She named names and her relatives or cohorts probably thought that She would never do that...MOO


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Observer on April 11, 2008, 12:57:42 AM
 RODRIGUEZ      RAMONA      11/11/1958       49      In Custody     
 Hudson County Jail      Hudson County Jail

 Offender Record
Offender ID:
0900277886
Offender Name:
RAMONA  RODRIGUEZ
Date of Birth:
11/11/1958
Age:
49
Custody Status:
In Custody
Location of Offender:
Hudson County Jail
Race:
Hispanic
Gender:
Female


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: texasmom on April 11, 2008, 01:31:46 AM
Aruba White Page Listing:

Rodriquez Tejada Ramona Del Carmen     
 
Spinozastraat 2
 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: hotping on April 11, 2008, 02:02:33 AM
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1965226/posts

A 21-year old Aruban came forward Monday to say that he is the mystery man that Joran van der Sloot implicated on undercover tapes, but claims that he had nothing to do with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

Daury Rodriguez said he was contacted on Saturday by a frantic biographer of Van der Sloot's who, he said, warned him that his name was about to surface in the press as being the alleged accomplice who took Holloway's body out to sea in a boat and dumped it.

Video Joran Van der Sloot Caught on Tape"She said, 'I got your number from Joran, because he said your name is going to show up in the press, but I know it's not true. It doesn't fit the story, so you've got to do something about it. You've got to give me proof [of his whereabouts in May 2005], so I can put it in the newspaper ... here in Holland."

Rodriguez, who grew up on Aruba and played soccer with Van der Sloot when both men were teenagers, said he was angry that his name had been dragged into the case. He said he met with detectives investigating Holloway's disappearance on Monday morning, and that he told them he was living in Rotterdam, Holland in May 2005, when Holloway went missing.


The above bolded statement was strange.....what did She mean it didn't fit the story....hmmmm ::MonkeyConfused::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: texasmom on April 11, 2008, 02:06:59 AM
Aruba White Page Listing:

Rodriquez Tejada Ramona Del Carmen     
 
Spinozastraat 2
 
Makes me curious as to if the address above is not a business address:

For Sale Nearby:

http://casnan-real-estate-aruba.com/listing/index.php?option=com_hotproperty&task=view&id=700&Itemid=99999999 (http://casnan-real-estate-aruba.com/listing/index.php?option=com_hotproperty&task=view&id=700&Itemid=99999999)

Property Code: Spinozastraat 3
Introduction: This pristine two storey commercial building is located in the centre of oranjestad. The total constructed area is 186 m2 on 226 m2 of land.

Price: USD 211,864


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: hotping on April 11, 2008, 02:28:17 AM
Good Night TM...Its been a Very Long Day! You might try running Ramona's name through the Aruba Chamber of Commerce and see what Ya come up with!  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: texasmom on April 11, 2008, 02:33:25 AM
RODRIGUEZ TEJADA W/V WINTERDAL RAMONA DEL CARMEN
MADIKI 58, A

http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm (http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm)

(I'm not sure what the W/V Winterdal means?)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: texasmom on April 11, 2008, 02:36:25 AM
Good Night TM...Its been a Very Long Day! You might try running Ramona's name through the Aruba Chamber of Commerce and see what Ya come up with!  ::MonkeyWink::

Goodnight Hotping!  I checked some there earlier, didn't find anything yet....


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: hotping on April 11, 2008, 02:40:44 AM
RODRIGUEZ TEJADA W/V WINTERDAL RAMONA DEL CARMEN
MADIKI 58, A

http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm (http://www.arubachamber.com/DISKKLEINBEDRIJF31JULI2004.htm)

(I'm not sure what the W/V Winterdal means?)

Maybe Caps would know!   Goodnight!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: johan555 on April 11, 2008, 05:29:32 AM
 Renee Gielen
  In fact, a chesspart
  Of a larger whole.
A db tje who does what its dedicated.
She would like to create programs and has become enormously at various broadcasters for money but for what releasing peuteren "draaidagen".
She surrounded herself with a variety of mediums expressions that do exactly that in its action. Another of its supporters is one (Boudineke) from Zeeland (holland)
berkenbosch, bm  NOORDGOUWE who called mr and psychologist, this woman is not, as for example says that 9 / 11 was an earthquake and that there are bombs exploded commissioned by the government.
As long as you stay long enough (3 years now) continues to argue that fam Holoway itself behind it and all other innocent people, there will be people out there who are best in the long term also come to believe. The only thing they specifically indicate the view from the eyes of a taxi driver and arrival times, according to her are not correct.
Also, Renee Gielen expressions which they later regret, apparently, because they can no hard.
She is even asked to agree to posts, but then they are not at home.
Wllicht afraid to step through the basket to fall another explanation is not.
Her trolls are not saved!
My fam is that therorie vd arubaanse closed and the government has contracted to run it on this way, because it could turn out this way can be that if anything really comes to light
Also heads to roll at government level and just below.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: johan555 on April 11, 2008, 05:40:52 AM
This is the village "Den Dolder " where Joran is now [The psychiatric institution Altrecht ]
translation via Google
De Volkskrant,  reporter Deedee Derksen

Inconvenience of addicted patients ruined the atmosphere in village Den Dolder  
 

Strange figures with aluminum foil  ::MonkeyConfused::
Residents of Den Dolder not look like someone on the street just a song aanheft. She lives for a hundred years with patients from Altrecht facility. Use of alcohol and drugs has rust danig disrupted.

Was there suddenly a last man with a bleeding face at the counter. Nancy However, owner of the designwinkel Nnzart 'n Styling in the former station waiting room of Den Dolder, shocked wezenloos itself. "I have a stanleymesje quickly caught." Or maybe he's a train ticket could buy. This was so good, but she sees them increasingly at the station, says Real rare figures, often in the back with aluminum foil. They quarrel, fight. And that in such a small village.
     However, they have some zonderlinge types used in Den Dolder, everyone knows Gerrit still, with his stofjas and a cart full of shelling by the village stiefelde. And this other person who always sang: 'two reebruine eyes looked the hunter. " For a hundred years the residents living along with the psychiatric patients of the institution Altrecht Utrecht, in the woods Dolderse a large department. Everything went fine, until the last few years more and more drink and drugs in the game came.
     Now scoring the residents' on the track 'drugs or are they on the platform of the Aldi beer cans to drink, says Hero Bit of Egelantier The cafe while he misnoegd points to the window. "I have great trouble getting them out the door." Last summer was almost wrong; daughter Kim was given a glass to her face gezwaaid. "They dare not only to stand behind the bar."
     Tolerant and help them always been, say the villagers, mostly bovenmodale double in their big cars off against the stark scharrelaars absent in the dorpcentrum. As phrased, many of their parents worked in the past Altrecht. And all of them are outside Den Dolder sometimes bullied friendly with the gekkendorp 'and' a single Den Dolder. " 'That told them at school, "says Janneke Kos of the local keurslagerij. 'But that was not very much. "
     Now the residents have increasingly nuisance of psychiatric patients, changes their attitude. The growing gap was recently painfully visible during a special briefing that Altrecht had invested. When one of the psychiatric patients opperde that they also buy in local stores and therefore money in the laatje, got a five Doldenaren demonstrative.
     "For the average resident of Den Dolder is a joint one-of-its-bed-show 'responding Hppener Armand, the chairman of the Board of Directors of Altrecht. He acknowledges that 'are' addicted patients more nuisance even if a part of him according to the so-called time-out provision of the Utrecht institution for addiction, Maliebaan Centre, which is located at the same site. He takes measures: an investigation, which should be out in January, and tougher action against overlastveroorzakers. 'Actual nuisance, we must fight. "
     Also in the field of Altrecht being taken. But Altrecht is not a prison, emphasizes divisiedirecteur Joost-Jan Stolker. "The company proposes complex demands on us. We are responsible for the most difficult people, but we can not and should not lock them. It is about making them better, and this past rehabilitation. "
     Hppener wants not only sweet bread baking with residents who leave their onderbuikgevoelens speak, he says. 'In Den Dolder they are not much used in the field of addiction, tolerance is lower than in Utrecht. "
     'Nonsense', briest supermarktmanager Gerard Jansen of the local Albert Heijn. Everyday he gets addicted psychiatric patients in his shop sometimes suddenly from their roof, the staff curse rotten or steal beer. 'This may not really true anymore. "
     It is indeed a bit sneu for Den Dolder, Hppener, such a large psychiatric institution around the corner. 'But you need a bit of the problems still concentrate, otherwise you sleep wherever they go. "

Intersert:
Za uporabo needed in psychiatry
The psychiatric institution Altrecht considering drink and drug addict patients under supervision in allowing it to be used. This would be the nuisance outside the instellingsmuren prevention, says Armand Hppener, the Chairman of the Board of Directors of Altrecht, the office for mental health care in central Netherlands. Some patients may already drink and (hard) drugs inside.
     Hppener estimates that 30 to 50 percent of psychiatric patients with behavioural problems in his institution regularly used drugs and drink, in some departments even 60 percent. That leads to aggression, crime and extortion of fellow patients in the field. The vulnerable patients also attract drug dealers, says Joost-Jan Stolker, psychiatrist and divisiedirecteur. "It's a good market here, full of people with a low sense of self-esteem."
     Meanwhile, Altrecht tightened surveillance, cameras are being installed and hasjhonden abandoned in the field. In Veiligheidskrant get the staff and clients safety.
     On the location of William Arntzhoeve Altrecht in Den Dolder are 340 beds. There are more psychiatric patients with behavioral and mood treated and mentally disabled people with a psychiatric illness. In some cases there is a judicial measure. There are plans for expansion of the complex with 72 points.
     Apart from the psychiatric departments there is a so-called time-out provision of the Utrecht institution for addiction Centre Maliebaan where 32 long-term addicts can. The drugs in Den Dolder, however, only partly of these patients.
     Altrecht considering users to focus on softdrugsgebruik and later possibly also for hard drugs. "That quest for drugs, we can not treat," says Hppener. "While we have to maintain. I am all for users to set up. You can change the behavior of patients normalization, and there is a chance that they afkicken. "
     "The past decade has been in psychiatric care more eye come to addiction, but it's also compounded. It has never been as bad as now. "

at the station :
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/IMG_2783kopie.jpg?t=1207842518)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: GBMW on April 11, 2008, 06:06:44 AM
There's no update on the Thailandrumour as of yet...if I get a chance to check in at the office I will...


And to all of you: just about everyday I'm very amazed by the posts...the information / links / photos that you all find somewhere in a very short time....incredible!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: GBMW on April 11, 2008, 06:35:08 AM

Hi Sharon,

yes I can tell ;-). You live in Miami? Awwww...I'm going to the States for a couple of weeks soon and Miami is a place I would love to visit but it couldn't be put in our schedule.

I'm not for boycotting Aruba though. There are a lot of people on Aruba who have done nothing wrong and who have to live from tourism. Why hurt people for something they did not take part in and who hate the situation as much as any 'normal' person would?

I understand the people in higher functions / the corrupt people won't change unless other people make them too...but hurting people that have nothing to do with it and have to make a living for their own families isn't the way it should be done according to me. I don't have the answers on how to put the right presssure on the ALE but making even more innocent people the victim doesn't feel right to me.




Maybe you can fit Miami in next time. Most visitors prefer our winters to summers.

But I do live in an area with a large tourism economy so I can express opinions from that perspective.

Living in an area where the mainstreams for professional life focus on tourism and health care -- living in an area that has gone through cycles of tourism havens and tourism boycotts -- I uniquely feel for innocent folks of Aruba.

I spent close to 20 years earning a living in the hospitality arena and have been both postively and negatively impacted by the cycles.

I also live in a very touristy area of Miami. And I abhor the crime that tourism innately brings. And I do many things to support the safety of my area -- for the tourists as well as for my family.

And when we were boycotted primarily from European visitors because our visitors were being targeted by criminals as they left rental car agency we bugged our local government until there was action.

The rental cars were clearly marked by their license tags allowing our guests to be targeted. That was changed.

Tourists were getting lost -- the airport is always under construction, the area around the airport is very industrial and, well, unsafe. New signage was put up at all airport exits and hiway intersections -- symbols for hotels, the beach, the city, etc - are used rather than words.

And the tourists returned. Yippppeeee. (I'm not a big fan of tourist season. Which appears to be all year. lol)

I don't see anything remotely resembling that from Aruba. And the good people of Aruba need to pressure their elected officials to do the right thing for their tourism industry, their economy and especially for their own welfare. And the welfare of their family. Or move away. Where they and their families can be safe.

But I'm said to be too logical at times.

And it is all just my opinion.



But it is only my opinion.





Hopefully I'll be in Miami one day...one of those bloody tourists ;-). I do hope you understand that not everyone is the same; this applies to people in general but also for the different cultures. Aruban people might have a different outlook / character on how to deal with things. And I can only applaud you for what you've done; but not everybody has this strength or capability.

And this is saying it in an extreme way: there must be tourists murdered in the US as well; and probably not all the cases were solved / dealt with in a proper manner...but that doesn't mean I'm not going to the US because not everybody is out and about to get justice for the unsolved murdercases.

Patrick van der Eem, who's has been an incredible help in this case, comes from Curacao and I think he has family living on Aruba (I'm not sure though). He helped Natalee's loved ones without knowing if it would lead to anything....for months he was living "Joranlife"; his family / social life / job...all suffered for it and he did it without any hesitation. Even though he's not an Aruban I do believe he considers himself (as I do) as one of the 'island people'. So I do think that one of the good people of Aruba helped this case in an incredible way...and one of the reasons was his love for the island and its people. You might think the boycott did a part of its job then...I'm hopeful he would have even done it without the boycott ;-)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Peaches on April 11, 2008, 07:39:49 AM
I think Patrick made a huge sacrifice in order to try to help Beth.  He's a big ole hero to me and lots of others.  He did what the courts/Aruba have been unable to do for three years: provide Beth with some answers.



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: MumInOhio on April 11, 2008, 08:17:27 AM
Daury's dowry. Hey, didn't Freddy's mother remarry to a Rodriquez? And back in the olden days, RWV had a really awful misogynist name of Rodriquez. Gah, the names' nearly as common as Croes!

Freddy's Mom has so many names..I'M not sure who she married..Is her maiden name Rodriguez? ::MonkeyConfused::

LILIAN REGINA ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT
::MonkeyConfused:: I'm not sure either *******, I thought her maiden name might have been Arambatzis if Freddy's name is really Freddy Zedan; since he had the Arambatzis added on for flavor (or to confuse!) I guess.  Did she not ever marry a Zedan?  Or maybe Zedan is her maiden name....
 ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyConfused::


LOL...thought I had this worked out until I read your post....at least 3 marriages as best I can figure, regardless if Zedan or Albert is the maiden name! Leaning towards Albert as the maiden name!

Freddy Zedan, half brother Ernesto Arambatzis, half sister Sasha Rodriguez and did Klaas mention another Rodriguez with Sasha yesterday?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: msmarple on April 11, 2008, 09:06:58 AM
So it is possible that he was arrested late February or the first of March?  Thanks Klaas.

 *segun fbi, daury know more of desaparicion of natalee

 oranjestad (aan): informacion confiable cu daily paper owing to achieve for of merca is cu daury that some time happen owing to worde deteni at merca, as daily paper owing to publica yesterday, is worde sospecha of posesion of 8 kilo of heroin. the acusacion is tell posesion with the intention to distribute, then the is worde acusa of posesion of the heroin, cu intencion of trafica. according the informacion, the acusacion is of january year happen, where cu autoridadnan mericano owing to look at the in*

BTW...I'm searching the NY inmate status records....Is Daury a version of David?

TIA Des

Destiny - According to yesterday's (4/10) Diario article, Daury is detained in New Jersey. Apologies if someone already pointed this out.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: msmarple on April 11, 2008, 09:26:14 AM
Hi Rob..I have been reading about David Stacey in the Dutch part of forum..Is his son from Grand Blanc Michigan? Both Dad and Son are named David Stacey?

Oh my. I will try to check this, but I think David Stacey is the name of the man who was with Max De Vries when he drowned. (14-yr-old boy - occurred about 1 year before Natalee disappeared.)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 11, 2008, 09:33:11 AM
I havent seen anything yet that says that is Daury's Mother but since they are both from Aruba,they have the same last name,and both were busted in New Jersey for 8 kilos of heroin... I thinks its more then likely they are related..

That was roughly a million dollars in Heroin in street value..Who supplied them with that much uncut Heroin?





Shot in the dark here....Lorenzo...with his columbian, machine gun toting bodyguards, and armed fortress...er...I mean, quaint island home...would be my guess.....just thinking out loud here ya know...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 11, 2008, 09:40:13 AM
I havent seen anything yet that says that is Daury's Mother but since they are both from Aruba,they have the same last name,and both were busted in New Jersey for 8 kilos of heroin... I thinks its more then likely they are related..

That was roughly a million dollars in Heroin in street value..Who supplied them with that much uncut Heroin?





Shot in the dark here....Lorenzo...with his columbian, machine gun toting bodyguards, and armed fortress...er...I mean, quaint island home...would be my guess.....just thinking out loud here ya know...
My take is that this "Daury" still might not have any connection to Natalee that night. What I think MAY be possible is that Joran really screwed up and "blamed" Daury as the "abettor" to the crime (to Patrick).
Daury was the LAST person Joran should have brought into this!
Now Joran has a big time Heroine pusher (and his cohorts) royally pissed at him -- enough for Joran going into SERIOUS hiding.

My thinking on this new path of Monkey musings...is that...Joran really did think he was going into business with Patrick...in thebig time drug trade*...and that at some point, Jorine planned on bringing Daury/associate, into the equation as the *pull* that Joran had, to bring to the table....I think he was trying to prove to Patrick, that this Daury dude, was just as much of a bad-ass as he/Jorine was...to get Patrick to trust him enough to consider going into business with too....JMOHO...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 11, 2008, 09:51:46 AM
So it is possible that he was arrested late February or the first of March?  Thanks Klaas.

 *segun fbi, daury know more of desaparicion of natalee

 oranjestad (aan): informacion confiable cu daily paper owing to achieve for of merca is cu daury that some time happen owing to worde deteni at merca, as daily paper owing to publica yesterday, is worde sospecha of posesion of 8 kilo of heroin. the acusacion is tell posesion with the intention to distribute, then the is worde acusa of posesion of the heroin, cu intencion of trafica. according the informacion, the acusacion is of january year happen, where cu autoridadnan mericano owing to look at the in*

BTW...I'm searching the NY inmate status records....Is Daury a version of David?

TIA Des

Destiny - According to yesterday's (4/10) Diario article, Daury is detained in New Jersey. Apologies if someone already pointed this out.

Thanks...Ms Marple...Ya...got that one cleared up real fast...LOL...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 11, 2008, 09:59:06 AM
I tell ya...If there was an award for screwing up quote stacks...I'd be wearing the crown...I'll try better...honest.... ::MonkeyWaa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 11, 2008, 10:16:56 AM
Good morning everyone...

I tried the 973 number again this morning and it just rings and rings and rings.. no one answers that number and I'm pretty sure that is a governmental number because no one answers it. That's a sure sign.

I have had a revelation this morning and it's just my opinion, but I believe Hans Mos is certainly corrupt, or has been corrupted. I'm sure of it now.

Daury Rodriguez told Mos to look at his atm record and Mos either didn't or never connected any of the dots. Either way, this guy should not be leading any investigation into the murder, rape and "disappearance" of Natalee Holloway. He's either a bumbling boob, or corrupt, and either way he should not be near any prosecutor's office.

A quick scan of Daury Rodriguez's banking records would have certainly turned up a bunch of transfers that shouldn't be there for a 22 year old college / trade school kid.

That seals the deal for me.... Mos is corrupt.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Blonde on April 11, 2008, 10:28:45 AM
I agree Rob we do a better job connecting the dots here on SM then any of those jerks in Aruba.
Why, because we care and we want Justice For Natalee


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: nimrod on April 11, 2008, 10:29:10 AM
Good morning everyone...

I tried the 973 number again this morning and it just rings and rings and rings.. no one answers that number and I'm pretty sure that is a governmental number because no one answers it. That's a sure sign.

I have had a revelation this morning and it's just my opinion, but I believe Hans Mos is certainly corrupt, or has been corrupted. I'm sure of it now.

Daury Rodriguez told Mos to look at his atm record and Mos either didn't or never connected any of the dots. Either way, this guy should not be leading any investigation into the murder, rape and "disappearance" of Natalee Holloway. He's either a bumbling boob, or corrupt, and either way he should not be near any prosecutor's office.

A quick scan of Daury Rodriguez's banking records would have certainly turned up a bunch of transfers that shouldn't be there for a 22 year old college / trade school kid.

That seals the deal for me.... Mos is corrupt.

I'm inclined to think you are right. He fits in real well with the rest of them in Aruba.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 11, 2008, 10:39:30 AM
Hmmmmmmmm....found an intersting link...I think it has all the people we've ever talked about listed...it has all their full names...and where they live/local....found this one there:

VAN RIJN-VAN TRAKSEL     ASTRID LOUISE     SAVANETA

Yes....Ramona is there too...she is listed with Noord...

Full link here: http://www.arubachamber.com/LC%20KLEIN%2005-06-2005.htm


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: LilPuma on April 11, 2008, 10:39:56 AM
My take is that this "Daury" still might not have any connection to Natalee that night. What I think MAY be possible is that Joran really screwed up and "blamed" Daury as the "abettor" to the crime (to Patrick).
Daury was the LAST person Joran should have brought into this!
Now Joran has a big time Heroine pusher (and his cohorts) royally pissed at him -- enough for Joran going into SERIOUS hiding.

Yup..I think the Drug Cartel and Angry Dutch people is all he's worried about..Obviously he isn't concerned about being prosecuted for what he did to Natalee..He knows the Government and the "Higher Power's" have his back..


Joran screwed up Big time by putting the spotlight on Daury .. ::MonkeyDance:: Getting caught with 8 kilos of Heroin in the states is a very long prison sentence..Daury isn't in Chollerstad anymore  ::MonkeyWink::

I can't keep up just reading here.  Do we know for sure that the Daury arrested on drug charges is the same guy who gave the interview saying that he had nothing to do with Natalee and Joran? 

No doubt that's why Joran was so scared.  Not so much from vigilantes, but those who covered his ass and now he's implicated Daury.  Anita can stop worrying about "how far the family will go".  She's got bigger bad guys to worry about.  Real bad guys.  The kind who would dispose of a female tourists' body. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 11, 2008, 10:41:16 AM
Hi Nimrod and Blonde,

You know these "people" on Aruba don't look like the typical corrupt people we see and instantly know are corrupt. Most of them are wearing suits and police uniforms. The cure for this disease is a tsunami.

Rodriguez is obviously not new to the heroin business and no one just starts out with an 8 kilo shipment. And in the back of my mind I have to think that Universal Air and KLM (we know KLM is involved) are involved somehow. These shipments are moving in and out of Aruba to parts unknown.

Interesting that Gabe Leo popped up to finger point at Rodriguez on the FP yesterday or the day before.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 11, 2008, 10:45:11 AM
My take is that this "Daury" still might not have any connection to Natalee that night. What I think MAY be possible is that Joran really screwed up and "blamed" Daury as the "abettor" to the crime (to Patrick).
Daury was the LAST person Joran should have brought into this!
Now Joran has a big time Heroine pusher (and his cohorts) royally pissed at him -- enough for Joran going into SERIOUS hiding.

Yup..I think the Drug Cartel and Angry Dutch people is all he's worried about..Obviously he isn't concerned about being prosecuted for what he did to Natalee..He knows the Government and the "Higher Power's" have his back..


Joran screwed up Big time by putting the spotlight on Daury .. ::MonkeyDance:: Getting caught with 8 kilos of Heroin in the states is a very long prison sentence..Daury isn't in Chollerstad anymore  ::MonkeyWink::

I can't keep up just reading here.  Do we know for sure that the Daury arrested on drug charges is the same guy who gave the interview saying that he had nothing to do with Natalee and Joran? 

No doubt that's why Joran was so scared.  Not so much from vigilantes, but those who covered his ass and now he's implicated Daury.  Anita can stop worrying about "how far the family will go".  She's got bigger bad guys to worry about.  Real bad guys.  The kind who would dispose of a female tourists' body. 

LilPuma - yes same guy.  I've posted alot of the info on Daury and his arrest in this thread:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2783.0


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: MumInOhio on April 11, 2008, 10:48:44 AM
Hmmmmmmmm....found an intersting link...I think it has all the people we've ever talked about listed...it has all their full names...and where they live/local....found this one there:

VAN RIJN-VAN TRAKSEL     ASTRID LOUISE     SAVANETA

Yes....Ramona is there too...she is listed with Noord...

Full link here: http://www.arubachamber.com/LC%20KLEIN%2005-06-2005.htm


I think that's the third address that I have seen posted...the Tanki one, Madiki 58A from 2004 and I think texasmom posted one she thought was a business address, last night!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: LilPuma on April 11, 2008, 10:50:21 AM
Thanks Klaas.  I'll go read it.  Gee, he seemed like such a nice guy in his TV interview.   ::MonkeyTongue::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: dennisintn on April 11, 2008, 10:55:42 AM
Good morning everyone...

I tried the 973 number again this morning and it just rings and rings and rings.. no one answers that number and I'm pretty sure that is a governmental number because no one answers it. That's a sure sign.

I have had a revelation this morning and it's just my opinion, but I believe Hans Mos is certainly corrupt, or has been corrupted. I'm sure of it now.

Daury Rodriguez told Mos to look at his atm record and Mos either didn't or never connected any of the dots. Either way, this guy should not be leading any investigation into the murder, rape and "disappearance" of Natalee Holloway. He's either a bumbling boob, or corrupt, and either way he should not be near any prosecutor's office.

A quick scan of Daury Rodriguez's banking records would have certainly turned up a bunch of transfers that shouldn't be there for a 22 year old college / trade school kid.

That seals the deal for me.... Mos is corrupt.

isn't nadira's husband's last name rodriguez? 
dennisintn


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 11, 2008, 10:58:30 AM
isn't nadira's husband's last name rodriguez? 
dennisintn

Ramierz - Luis

Hi Ya Dennis


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: LilPuma on April 11, 2008, 11:00:03 AM
I don't understand why Daury was dumb enough to go on television about Joran's statements if he was involved in drugs smuggling.  You'd think he'd want to keep a low profile.  I suppose in Aruba he feels safe from prosecution cause his "boss" is probably in the legal system.  In fact, I like this part about Mama Daury: 

A distraught Ramona Rodriguez-Tejeda, 49, made her first appearance yesterday at Central Judicial Processing Court in Jersey City on drug distribution charges. She could face up to 20 years in prison, said Lt. Mark Kelly, commander of the State Police Drug Traffic Unit in Newark.

She appeared in court via video link from Hudson County jail in Kearny and she was so distraught during the appearance that she was later taken away for medical attention. He bail was set at $1 million cash only by state Superior Court Judge Kevin Callahan.


She was probably thinking "this would never happen in Aruba". 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Magnolia on April 11, 2008, 11:05:06 AM
Maybe Joran was being vindictive when he named Daury,
and had no idea what can of worms he had opened.
Someone punched Joran in the mouth in the casino after he
was released from KIA in Dec/07.  Daury said that he ran into
Joran in the Casino in December.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 11, 2008, 11:17:15 AM

Another thing, possible she was arrested and when questioned about who supplied her with the heroin she said "my wonderful sweet sporter of a nephew Daury".  Then they simply waited for him to come to the US to nab him?

Daury is Ramona's nephew?  I think this makes sense when you consider the following article.  Caps claims that Daury's mother resides in New Jersey but ... the article does not give a New Jersey residence for Ramona.

Ramona could be an aunt or ... there is the possibility that she is not closely related to Daury at all.  There seems to be many Rodriguez' on that island.  The name Rodriguez is intertwined in both Freddy and Deepak's family.

Good Morning Monkeys
8:10 AM

Janet

++++++++++++
 
Authorities seize 8 kilograms of heroin worth more than $500K
10 January 2008


SEACAUCUS, New Jersey. - Authorities seized 8 kilograms of heroin and arrested a woman as part an ongoing probe into a case with suspected international ties.

State Police Lt. Mark Kelly said Ramona Rodriguez-Tejada, 49, was arrested Wednesday as she attempted to board a bus in Secaucus. He says the powdered heroin she allegedly possessed is worth an estimated $520,000 and likely was smuggled through Aruba.

Kelly says the woman is a native of the Dominican Republic, but has Aruban citizenship and addresses in Brooklyn. Shes being held at the Hudson County Jail on $1 million bail.

Authorities believe the case also has ties to Holland and Haiti, and are continuing their investigation.

The reproduction, the redistribution or the syndication of the above text, in whole, part or in any form, requires the prior consent of Associated Press.

http://www.haiti-info.com/spip.php?article4451


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 11, 2008, 11:18:38 AM

Another thing, possible she was arrested and when questioned about who supplied her with the heroin she said "my wonderful sweet sporter of a nephew Daury".  Then they simply waited for him to come to the US to nab him?

Daury is Ramona's nephew?  I think this makes sense when you consider the following article.  Caps claims that Daury's mother resides in New Jersey but ... the article does not give a New Jersey residence for Ramona.

Ramona could be an aunt or ... there is the possibility that she is not closely related to Daury at all.  There seems to be many Rodriguez' on that island.  The name Rodriguez is intertwined in both Freddy and Deepak's family.

Good Morning Monkeys
8:10 AM

Janet

++++++++++++
 
Authorities seize 8 kilograms of heroin worth more than $500K
10 January 2008


SEACAUCUS, New Jersey. - Authorities seized 8 kilograms of heroin and arrested a woman as part an ongoing probe into a case with suspected international ties.

State Police Lt. Mark Kelly said Ramona Rodriguez-Tejada, 49, was arrested Wednesday as she attempted to board a bus in Secaucus. He says the powdered heroin she allegedly possessed is worth an estimated $520,000 and likely was smuggled through Aruba.

Kelly says the woman is a native of the Dominican Republic, but has Aruban citizenship and addresses in Brooklyn. Shes being held at the Hudson County Jail on $1 million bail.

Authorities believe the case also has ties to Holland and Haiti, and are continuing their investigation.

The reproduction, the redistribution or the syndication of the above text, in whole, part or in any form, requires the prior consent of Associated Press.

http://www.haiti-info.com/spip.php?article4451


Janet - I was just guessing nephew.  Capslock is saying Ramona is Daury's mother.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Peaches on April 11, 2008, 11:19:41 AM
Maybe Joran was being vindictive when he named Daury,
and had no idea what can of worms he had opened.
Someone punched Joran in the mouth in the casino after he
was released from KIA in Dec/07.  Daury said that he ran into
Joran in the Casino in December.

Or maybe Joran was just being a big A-hole like usual. 

Personally, the idea that he gets his ass kicked regularly kinda pleases me.   ::MonkeyCool::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: LilPuma on April 11, 2008, 11:29:52 AM
Maybe Joran was being vindictive when he named Daury,
and had no idea what can of worms he had opened.
Someone punched Joran in the mouth in the casino after he
was released from KIA in Dec/07.  Daury said that he ran into
Joran in the Casino in December.

Or maybe Joran was just being a big A-hole like usual. 

Personally, the idea that he gets his ass kicked regularly kinda pleases me.   ::MonkeyCool::

Joran hadn't told Patrick about Daury until after he was released in 12/07.  So maybe there was bad blood there about something else that led Joran to throw out his name a month or so later. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Destiny on April 11, 2008, 11:31:34 AM
I just phoned friend at Diario....I had sent some info regarding both heroin busts to her....she told me that it has become one of the lead stories to investiage from their end...she is *very* excited...and will keep me/us posted on anything new from their end...she is also still trying to get info regarding location of Joran from his family and friends...she said a lot of people seem *nervous* about the whole situation...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: klaasend on April 11, 2008, 11:33:41 AM
I just phoned friend at Diario....I had sent some info regarding both heroin busts to her....she told me that it has become one of the lead stories to investiage from their end...she is *very* excited...and will keep me/us posted on anything new from their end...she is also still trying to get info regarding location of Joran from his family and friends...she said a lot of people seem *nervous* about the whole situation...

I bet, lol  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: LilPuma on April 11, 2008, 11:34:35 AM
I can only hope that Ramona is distraught enough to give up one or two of the big boys in Aruba.  Maybe a name like Jacobs will come up.  Wonder if she knows she can cut a deal.  Give us the corrupt government officials in Aruba and the big boys in Dominican Republic and Brooklyn and we'll put you in a rundown motel in Mesa, AZ with a new driver's license. 
 ::MonkeyTongue::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: LilPuma on April 11, 2008, 11:38:51 AM
I just phoned friend at Diario....I had sent some info regarding both heroin busts to her....she told me that it has become one of the lead stories to investiage from their end...she is *very* excited...and will keep me/us posted on anything new from their end...she is also still trying to get info regarding location of Joran from his family and friends...she said a lot of people seem *nervous* about the whole situation...

I bet, lol  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Hmmmmm.  Doesn't make me nervous.   Doesn't make Jossy or Tamikosmom or Red nervous.  Hope they're looking suspiciously at each other, wondering which one is gonna crack first and call 800-FBI-DEA9. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 11, 2008, 11:43:30 AM

Another thing, possible she was arrested and when questioned about who supplied her with the heroin she said "my wonderful sweet sporter of a nephew Daury".  Then they simply waited for him to come to the US to nab him?

Daury is Ramona's nephew?  I think this makes sense when you consider the following article.  Caps claims that Daury's mother resides in New Jersey but ... the article does not give a New Jersey residence for Ramona.

Ramona could be an aunt or ... there is the possibility that she is not closely related to Daury at all.  There seems to be many Rodriguez' on that island.  The name Rodriguez is intertwined in both Freddy and Deepak's family.

Good Morning Monkeys
8:10 AM

Janet

++++++++++++
 
Authorities seize 8 kilograms of heroin worth more than $500K
10 January 2008


SEACAUCUS, New Jersey. - Authorities seized 8 kilograms of heroin and arrested a woman as part an ongoing probe into a case with suspected international ties.

State Police Lt. Mark Kelly said Ramona Rodriguez-Tejada, 49, was arrested Wednesday as she attempted to board a bus in Secaucus. He says the powdered heroin she allegedly possessed is worth an estimated $520,000 and likely was smuggled through Aruba.

Kelly says the woman is a native of the Dominican Republic, but has Aruban citizenship and addresses in Brooklyn. Shes being held at the Hudson County Jail on $1 million bail.

Authorities believe the case also has ties to Holland and Haiti, and are continuing their investigation.

The reproduction, the redistribution or the syndication of the above text, in whole, part or in any form, requires the prior consent of Associated Press.

http://www.haiti-info.com/spip.php?article4451


Janet - I was just guessing nephew.  Capslock is saying Ramona is Daury's mother.

Caps also stated in his post that Daury's mother resides in New Jersey.  However ... State Police Lt. Mark Kelly does not reveal this when he lists Ramonas residences.

In my opinion "aunt" makes more sense than "mother".  However ... I have been wrong many times in my speculations and ... this could just be one more time.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet



Klassend:

The info will be here short..

First his name is not Daury. that is his call name at home and everyone cal him so

Second. He was going to a poken tournament....<<<<GAMBLING>>>> Associating to who.

Third. his mother is in New Jersey.

Fourh: Lives in Catiri and Moko.   will be checked. lives between his step father house and mother house.

and is a poker gambler. 

more later.....



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 11, 2008, 11:53:38 AM
"Daury" is the name that is used in the arrest report.  I would have thought his "real" name would have appeared somewhere on this official record.

Janet

https://www.vinelink.com/vinelink/searchResultsAction.do



Klassend:

The info will be here short..

First his name is not Daury. that is his call name at home and everyone cal him so

Second. He was going to a poken tournament....<<<<GAMBLING>>>> Associating to who.

Third. his mother is in New Jersey.

Fourh: Lives in Catiri and Moko.   will be checked. lives between his step father house and mother house.

and is a poker gambler. 

more later.....



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 11, 2008, 11:59:18 AM
"Daury" is the name that is used in the arrest report.  I would have thought his "real" name would have appeared somewhere on this official record.

Janet

https://www.vinelink.com/vinelink/searchResultsAction.do



Klassend:

The info will be here short..

First his name is not Daury. that is his call name at home and everyone cal him so

Second. He was going to a poken tournament....<<<<GAMBLING>>>> Associating to who.

Third. his mother is in New Jersey.

Fourh: Lives in Catiri and Moko.   will be checked. lives between his step father house and mother house.

and is a poker gambler. 

more later.....


The link I provided above does not work.

Janet

+++++++++

Here is a Daury in NJ

VINE Service Number: (877) 846-3465    Return to Search Results 
Offender Details
Offender Record
Offender ID: 0900280301 Offender Name: DAURY DANIEL RODRIGUEZ Date of Birth: 06/28/1986 Age: 21 Custody Status: In Custody Location of Offender: Hudson County Jail Race: Hispanic Gender: Male

www.vinelink.com




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: katrien on April 11, 2008, 12:43:03 PM
Dit schrijft T:


Quote
De beide stiefneven (de tweeling Hunter en Thomas Twitty, allebeide bekende American foothball spelers) van Natalee waren ook op de trip. Van Thomas wordt gefluisterd dat hij een relatie met Natalee (heeft) gehad zoals al eerder in deze draad gemeld werd. Beide heren hebben geweigerd een verklaring af te leggen aan de FBI.
This is what T writes on the NWO block (a block were a lot of  fortunetellers are gathered).

Natalee's Both stepnephews (the twins Hunter and Thomas Twitty, both well known American foothball players) were also on the trip. Of Thomas has been whispered that he has (had) a relation with Natalee as was mentioned earlier in this threat. Both gentlemen refused to give a statement to the FBI.   ::MonkeyConfused::
 
 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: katrien on April 11, 2008, 12:59:22 PM
On the NWO-site:

Quote
T Says:
april 11th, 2008 at 0:43

Natalees kamer was niet kamer 7114; Natalee had andere kamergenotes dan Beth steeds beweert; Beth dumpte Natalee bij vertrek; het nieuws van de zeiltocht)

T SAYS: "Natalee's room was not room 7114; Natalee had other roommates that Beth claims; Beth was dumping Natalee when she departed; the news of the sailing trip".


Quote
mr. drs. BOU Says:
april 11th, 2008 at 5:53
Dat wat in deze zaak ontbreekt, is een gedegen onderzoek naar de rol van Holloway/Twitty. Ik denk dan met name aan de stiefbroer van Natalee, die ook op Aruba was toen zij verdween. Zijn rol is nog altijd volkomen blanco. Dat is toch wel een beetje vreemd!


Bou Says:
"That's what is missing in this case, a well done investigation to the roll of HollowayTwitty. I mainly think of the stepbrother of Natalee, who was also on Aruba when she disappeared. His role is still completely blanc. That is a bit weird".

http://www.nwo-info.nl/2008/02/19/waarom-joran-niet-wordt-aangehouden/?cp=3


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: msmarple on April 11, 2008, 12:59:44 PM
klaas - mail. Thanks.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 11, 2008, 01:02:03 PM
I wonder if this has any relevance:

Cops: Woman busted in Secaucus with $500K in heroin
by Michaelangelo Conte
Thursday January 10, 2008, 7:19 PM


                           (http://blog.nj.com/hudsoncountynow_impact/2008/01/large_ZRRODR.jpg)
                                                                                  Pamela Suchy
Ramona Rodriguez-Tejada is arraigned via video link this morning from the Hudson County jail in Kearny.

An Aruban woman was busted with eight kilograms of heroin as she boarded a bus at the Harmon Cove Mall in Secaucus yesterday and police say she was connected to an international trafficking network with ties to Holland.

A distraught Ramona Rodriguez-Tejeda, 49, made her first appearance yesterday at Central Judicial Processing Court in Jersey City on drug distribution charges. She could face up to 20 years in prison, said Lt. Mark Kelly, commander of the State Police Drug Traffic Unit in Newark.

She appeared in court via video link from Hudson County jail in Kearny and she was so distraught during the appearance that she was later taken away for medical attention. He bail was set at $1 million cash only by state Superior Court Judge Kevin Callahan.

Kelly said the heroin has a wholesale value of about $520,000 but once processed and packaged for sale on the streets it will be worth twice that much.

Rodriguez-Tejeda, who also uses an address in Brooklyn, was charged with first-degree
possession of illegal drugs and first-degree possession with attempt to distribute, said Kelly.

Kelly declined to specify how troopers learned of the shipment.

http://www.nj.com/hudsoncountynow/index.ssf/2008/01/cops_woman_busted_in_secaucus.html



I can only assume that Daury was not aware that that he already implicating him when he agreed to the ABC interview in February.  Daury appears to be basking in the the spotlight.

Has any official document or published article surfaced that reveals the relationship between Ramona and Daury?

Janet

++++++++

Mystery Man in Holloway Case Comes Forward
Man Named As Accomplice By Van der Sloot Denies Involvement in Aruba Disappearance


http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=2
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=3


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: MumInOhio on April 11, 2008, 01:03:34 PM
Dit schrijft T:


Quote
De beide stiefneven (de tweeling Hunter en Thomas Twitty, allebeide bekende American foothball spelers) van Natalee waren ook op de trip. Van Thomas wordt gefluisterd dat hij een relatie met Natalee (heeft) gehad zoals al eerder in deze draad gemeld werd. Beide heren hebben geweigerd een verklaring af te leggen aan de FBI.
This is what T writes on the NWO block (a block were a lot of  fortunetellers are gathered).

Natalee's Both stepnephews (the twins Hunter and Thomas Twitty, both well known American foothball players) were also on the trip. Of Thomas has been whispered that he has (had) a relation with Natalee as was mentioned earlier in this threat. Both gentlemen refused to give a statement to the FBI.   ::MonkeyConfused::
 
 



Hi Katrien....I checked the Dr. Phil document list and didn't see them listed, but not everyone on the trip was interviewed. I don't know if they went on the trip or not, maybe some-one else can help with that.

Not sure either how many would refuse to talk to the FBI if it was requested....LOL


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: Magnolia on April 11, 2008, 01:05:30 PM
It looks like Ramona dropped the dime on her relative in the Bronx.
I don't Tejada is as common as Rodriguez.

Pamela SuchyRamona Rodriguez-Tejada is arraigned via video link this morning from the Hudson County jail in Kearny.

Cops: Woman busted in Secaucus with $500K in heroin
by Michaelangelo Conte

Thursday January 10, 2008, 7:19 PM



An Aruban woman was busted with eight kilograms of heroin as she boarded a bus at the Harmon Cove Mall in Secaucus yesterday and police say she was connected to an international trafficking network with ties to Holland.

A distraught Ramona Rodriguez-Tejeda, 49, made her first appearance yesterday at Central Judicial Processing Court in Jersey City on drug distribution charges. She could face up to 20 years in prison, said Lt. Mark Kelly, commander of the State Police Drug Traffic Unit in Newark.

She appeared in court via video link from Hudson County jail in Kearny and she was so distraught during the appearance that she was later taken away for medical attention. He bail was set at $1 million cash only by state Superior Court Judge Kevin Callahan.

Kelly said the heroin has a wholesale value of about $520,000 but once processed and packaged for sale on the streets it will be worth twice that much.

Rodriguez-Tejeda, who also uses an address in Brooklyn, was charged with first-degree
possession of illegal drugs and first-degree possession with attempt to distribute, said Kelly.

Kelly declined to specify how troopers learned of the shipment.

http://www.nj.com/hudsoncountynow/index.ssf/2008/01/cops_woman_busted_in_secaucus.html




January 10 2008
Top News
Bronx Police Raid Nets 8 Kilos of Heroin, Guns

NYPD officers raiding a north Bronx home earlier this week netted eight kilos of heroin and nine loaded handguns.

The couple who lived in the home, Edwin (Armani) Cruz, 31, and Lucille Tejada, 36, were arrested in the raid. Both face felony drug possession and numerous weapons charges.

The raid came after weeks of investigation by the NYPD's Bronx gang squad. However, police told the New York Daily News that the couple were not affiliated with a gang. Instead, police say, they are part of a larger organization that distributes guns and drugs on the streets of upper Manhattan and the Bronx.

"This was a substantial bust," Dep. Chief Robert Boyce, commander of the Citywide Gang Unit, told the Daily News. "I think we put a nice dent in this operation."

The raid was executed at 8:35 a.m., and the officers caught Cruz and Tejada still sleeping. Officers found the heroin, wrapped in red cellophane, stuffed in an empty vacuum box in the living room. The handguns, described as high-quality weapons, were found in a book bag and in a drawer.

Police say Cruz has an arrest record on charges of robbery, criminal possession of a weapon, and felony possession. His parole ended in 2006. Tejada has no criminal history.

http://www.policemag.com/News/2008/01/10/Bronx-Police-Raid-Nets-8-Kilos-of-Heroin-Guns.aspx   




 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Nut44x4 on April 11, 2008, 01:11:59 PM
I havent seen anything yet that says that is Daury's Mother but since they are both from Aruba,they have the same last name,and both were busted in New Jersey for 8 kilos of heroin... I thinks its more then likely they are related..

That was roughly a million dollars in Heroin in street value..Who supplied them with that much uncut Heroin?





Shot in the dark here....Lorenzo...with his columbian, machine gun toting bodyguards, and armed fortress...er...I mean, quaint island home...would be my guess.....just thinking out loud here ya know...


BINGO......my thoughts exactly.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: MumInOhio on April 11, 2008, 01:29:52 PM
It looks like Ramona dropped the dime on her relative in the Bronx.
I don't Tejada is as common as Rodriguez.

Pamela SuchyRamona Rodriguez-Tejada is arraigned via video link this morning from the Hudson County jail in Kearny.

Cops: Woman busted in Secaucus with $500K in heroin
by Michaelangelo Conte

Thursday January 10, 2008, 7:19 PM



An Aruban woman was busted with eight kilograms of heroin as she boarded a bus at the Harmon Cove Mall in Secaucus yesterday and police say she was connected to an international trafficking network with ties to Holland.

A distraught Ramona Rodriguez-Tejeda, 49, made her first appearance yesterday at Central Judicial Processing Court in Jersey City on drug distribution charges. She could face up to 20 years in prison, said Lt. Mark Kelly, commander of the State Police Drug Traffic Unit in Newark.

She appeared in court via video link from Hudson County jail in Kearny and she was so distraught during the appearance that she was later taken away for medical attention. He bail was set at $1 million cash only by state Superior Court Judge Kevin Callahan.

Kelly said the heroin has a wholesale value of about $520,000 but once processed and packaged for sale on the streets it will be worth twice that much.

Rodriguez-Tejeda, who also uses an address in Brooklyn, was charged with first-degree
possession of illegal drugs and first-degree possession with attempt to distribute, said Kelly.

Kelly declined to specify how troopers learned of the shipment.

http://www.nj.com/hudsoncountynow/index.ssf/2008/01/cops_woman_busted_in_secaucus.html




January 10 2008
Top News
Bronx Police Raid Nets 8 Kilos of Heroin, Guns

NYPD officers raiding a north Bronx home earlier this week netted eight kilos of heroin and nine loaded handguns.

The couple who lived in the home, Edwin (Armani) Cruz, 31, and Lucille Tejada, 36, were arrested in the raid. Both face felony drug possession and numerous weapons charges.

The raid came after weeks of investigation by the NYPD's Bronx gang squad. However, police told the New York Daily News that the couple were not affiliated with a gang. Instead, police say, they are part of a larger organization that distributes guns and drugs on the streets of upper Manhattan and the Bronx.

"This was a substantial bust," Dep. Chief Robert Boyce, commander of the Citywide Gang Unit, told the Daily News. "I think we put a nice dent in this operation."

The raid was executed at 8:35 a.m., and the officers caught Cruz and Tejada still sleeping. Officers found the heroin, wrapped in red cellophane, stuffed in an empty vacuum box in the living room. The handguns, described as high-quality weapons, were found in a book bag and in a drawer.

Police say Cruz has an arrest record on charges of robbery, criminal possession of a weapon, and felony possession. His parole ended in 2006. Tejada has no criminal history.

http://www.policemag.com/News/2008/01/10/Bronx-Police-Raid-Nets-8-Kilos-of-Heroin-Guns.aspx   




 


Hi Magnolia...thought I read that in the Dominican Republic,Tejeda is as common as Croes is to Aruba and Smith is to the US...Got a lot of hits on baseball players!


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: Tamikosmom on April 11, 2008, 01:38:34 PM
It looks like Ramona dropped the dime on her relative in the Bronx.
I don't Tejada is as common as Rodriguez.

Pamela SuchyRamona Rodriguez-Tejada is arraigned via video link this morning from the Hudson County jail in Kearny.

Cops: Woman busted in Secaucus with $500K in heroin
by Michaelangelo Conte

Thursday January 10, 2008, 7:19 PM

An Aruban woman was busted with eight kilograms of heroin as she boarded a bus at the Harmon Cove Mall in Secaucus yesterday and police say she was connected to an international trafficking network with ties to Holland.

A distraught Ramona Rodriguez-Tejeda, 49, made her first appearance yesterday at Central Judicial Processing Court in Jersey City on drug distribution charges. She could face up to 20 years in prison, said Lt. Mark Kelly, commander of the State Police Drug Traffic Unit in Newark.

She appeared in court via video link from Hudson County jail in Kearny and she was so distraught during the appearance that she was later taken away for medical attention. He bail was set at $1 million cash only by state Superior Court Judge Kevin Callahan.

Kelly said the heroin has a wholesale value of about $520,000 but once processed and packaged for sale on the streets it will be worth twice that much.

Rodriguez-Tejeda, who also uses an address in Brooklyn, was charged with first-degree
possession of illegal drugs and first-degree possession with attempt to distribute, said Kelly.

Kelly declined to specify how troopers learned of the shipment.

http://www.nj.com/hudsoncountynow/index.ssf/2008/01/cops_woman_busted_in_secaucus.html


January 10 2008
Top News
Bronx Police Raid Nets 8 Kilos of Heroin, Guns

NYPD officers raiding a north Bronx home earlier this week netted eight kilos of heroin and nine loaded handguns.

The couple who lived in the home, Edwin (Armani) Cruz, 31, and Lucille Tejada, 36, were arrested in the raid. Both face felony drug possession and numerous weapons charges.

The raid came after weeks of investigation by the NYPD's Bronx gang squad. However, police told the New York Daily News that the couple were not affiliated with a gang. Instead, police say, they are part of a larger organization that distributes guns and drugs on the streets of upper Manhattan and the Bronx.

"This was a substantial bust," Dep. Chief Robert Boyce, commander of the Citywide Gang Unit, told the Daily News. "I think we put a nice dent in this operation."

The raid was executed at 8:35 a.m., and the officers caught Cruz and Tejada still sleeping. Officers found the heroin, wrapped in red cellophane, stuffed in an empty vacuum box in the living room. The handguns, described as high-quality weapons, were found in a book bag and in a drawer.

Police say Cruz has an arrest record on charges of robbery, criminal possession of a weapon, and felony possession. His parole ended in 2006. Tejada has no criminal history.

http://www.policemag.com/News/2008/01/10/Bronx-Police-Raid-Nets-8-Kilos-of-Heroin-Guns.aspx   



 ::MonkeyShocked::

Thank you Magnolia

Janet



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: AZSunny on April 11, 2008, 01:46:08 PM
I can only hope that Ramona is distraught enough to give up one or two of the big boys in Aruba.  Maybe a name like Jacobs will come up.  Wonder if she knows she can cut a deal.  Give us the corrupt government officials in Aruba and the big boys in Dominican Republic and Brooklyn and we'll put you in a rundown motel in Mesa, AZ with a new driver's license. 
 ::MonkeyTongue::

Want to tell me how you picked Mesa, AZ?  It is now an area of high end and  million dollar homes through most of East Mesa.  If you have only been to downtown you are missing 80% of Mesa. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: Destiny on April 11, 2008, 01:51:33 PM
You know what I wonder....why is it that 8 Kilos, seems to be the magic number in these busts?  Is it all coming from the same source...and that is how it is packaged...also...8 Kilos of heroin...is no small time operation...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Kermit on April 11, 2008, 01:52:15 PM
Hi Nimrod and Blonde,

You know these "people" on Aruba don't look like the typical corrupt people we see and instantly know are corrupt. Most of them are wearing suits and police uniforms. The cure for this disease is a tsunami.

Rodriguez is obviously not new to the heroin business and no one just starts out with an 8 kilo shipment. And in the back of my mind I have to think that Universal Air and KLM (we know KLM is involved) are involved somehow. These shipments are moving in and out of Aruba to parts unknown.

Interesting that Gabe Leo popped up to finger point at Rodriguez on the FP yesterday or the day before.

Trust me Rob, ciminals come in all sizes and shapes.
I was undercover for a drug bust in a town in Texas and it was drugs being run by the Sheriff's and cops in the JAIL.
They'd use the underage kids they busted to do the dealing and give them the drugs.

Who would ever suspect someone like a cop!



Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: Destiny on April 11, 2008, 02:09:43 PM
I just lurve stirring the pot...new email/just in from Diario...

Hello xxxxxxx;
Thanks for the information. We go to investigate it.
 
Bye
xxxxx




Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: klaasend on April 11, 2008, 02:19:02 PM
You know what I wonder....why is it that 8 Kilos, seems to be the magic number in these busts?  Is it all coming from the same source...and that is how it is packaged...also...8 Kilos of heroin...is no small time operation...

I believe they are all the same case.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: Rob on April 11, 2008, 02:20:55 PM
Hi Nimrod and Blonde,

You know these "people" on Aruba don't look like the typical corrupt people we see and instantly know are corrupt. Most of them are wearing suits and police uniforms. The cure for this disease is a tsunami.

Rodriguez is obviously not new to the heroin business and no one just starts out with an 8 kilo shipment. And in the back of my mind I have to think that Universal Air and KLM (we know KLM is involved) are involved somehow. These shipments are moving in and out of Aruba to parts unknown.

Interesting that Gabe Leo popped up to finger point at Rodriguez on the FP yesterday or the day before.

Trust me Rob, ciminals come in all sizes and shapes.
I was undercover for a drug bust in a town in Texas and it was drugs being run by the Sheriff's and cops in the JAIL.
They'd use the underage kids they busted to do the dealing and give them the drugs.

Who would ever suspect someone like a cop!



Hi Kerm, they sure do come in all shapes and sizes. And we have had our share of them here, but eventually they do get weeded out and thrown in jail... the difference in Aruba is they get promoted and create hell for victims.

Sometimes I feel like I'm living in bizarro world. Up is down, black is white. It's wonderful to know there are others here that feel the same way and commiserate together.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: Destiny on April 11, 2008, 02:23:56 PM
Monkeys....Klaas...

Now that the stike is putting pressure on Aruba...and, possibly big drug busts too...that have put Jorins' name back in the news, as we've seen, with the Daury arrest is the US.

I have an Idea...that could really *shake-up* some folks if Diario published it...I need to write to you Klaas, and have you pass it onto Red, for feedback.  What addy Klaas?


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: klaasend on April 11, 2008, 02:25:43 PM
Monkeys....Klaas...

Now that the stike is putting pressure on Aruba...and, possibly big drug busts too...that have put Jorins' name back in the news, as we've seen, with the Daury arrest is the US.

I have an Idea...that could really *shake-up* some folks if Diario published it...I need to write to you Klaas, and have you pass it onto Red, for feedback.  What addy Klaas?

smklaas@hotmail.com


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: Destiny on April 11, 2008, 02:37:50 PM
Monkeys....Klaas...

Now that the stike is putting pressure on Aruba...and, possibly big drug busts too...that have put Jorins' name back in the news, as we've seen, with the Daury arrest is the US.

I have an Idea...that could really *shake-up* some folks if Diario published it...I need to write to you Klaas, and have you pass it onto Red, for feedback.  What addy Klaas?

smklaas@hotmail.com

Thanks Klaas...check mail.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: Destiny on April 11, 2008, 03:12:45 PM
Monkeys....Klaas...

Now that the stike is putting pressure on Aruba...and, possibly big drug busts too...that have put Jorins' name back in the news, as we've seen, with the Daury arrest is the US.

I have an Idea...that could really *shake-up* some folks if Diario published it...I need to write to you Klaas, and have you pass it onto Red, for feedback.  What addy Klaas?

smklaas@hotmail.com

Thanks Klaas...check mail.

Thanks Klaas...look forward to answer after I get off work 2nite...


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: klaasend on April 11, 2008, 03:34:56 PM
Just got this from Natalee's Freebirds:

Was Natalee Drugged?  

YOU BE THE JUDGE  



Joran van der Sloot shows the world in his recorded conversations with Patrick van der Eem the convulsions Natalee Holloway had while he was with her.

He then goes on to explain how he called for assistance - not to aid her - but to dispose of her at sea.

Taking it one step further - Joran van der Sloot admits to Patrick that Natalee may not have actually been deceased at the time she was taken out into the ocean.

Logical minds question the necessity Joran felt in assuring Natalee Holloway was never to be found.

What could have happened that would make Joran feel it was imperative to hide Miss Holloway from the world - either alive or deceased?

Reasonable conclusions lead us to believe there was evidence about her person that would have sealed the fate of Joran van der Sloot in a court of law - had she been found.


What could that evidence have been?

If there had been a consensual sexual encounter between Joran and Natalee, his biological presence found with her could have been explained as such - therefore nullifying any need to dispose of Natalee.

If, however, Natalee Holloway had been administered a drug rendering her unable to give consent - that evidence combined with a biological deposit from Joran would indicate rape.

As Joran claimed to have been studying criminal justice, naturally the consequences of what he had done would have been forefront in his mind, thus leading to a plan to dispose of Natalee.




Did Joran van der Sloot drug Natalee Holloway?

YOU BE THE JUDGE  



We have previously shown the actions that lead us to believe Joran had targeted Miss Holloway for the purpose of a sexual conquest. When his motives are considered, it makes the possibility of drugging Natalee even more prevalent.

http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/2007/03/arubas-predators.html

Medical experts share their knowledge of possible results from ingesting a date rape drug.

ABC News Law & Justice Unit
Feb. 15, 2008

Medical experts tell ABC News that the description Joran van der Sloot gave of convulsions apparently experienced by Natalee Holloway on the night she disappeared could be consistent with the date rape drug GHB, and not simply alcohol intoxication.

Doctors and pharmacologists who spoke to ABC said that it's in general unlikely that alcohol poisoning alone could have caused the otherwise healthy Alabama teen to convulse the way Van der Sloot described it to a man who he believed was a friend but who was actually working undercover for a Dutch investigative journalist.

Convulsions 'Consistent' With Date Rape Drug
"If you gave me a choice based on [Van der Sloot's description of the convulsions], alcohol would be lowest on the list and GHB the highest," said Paul Doering, distinguished service professor of pharmacy practice at the University of Florida's College of Pharmacy.

"Chronic alcoholics who suddenly discontinue the use of alcohol can experience convulsions, but it's generally not part of the acute toxic phase of alcohol poisoning,'' Doering said. "When people die from alcohol alone, the levels [of alcohol] get so high that they essentially tell the body's respiratory center to stop. They just stop breathing."

"When GHB [gamma hydroxy butyrate] was at its peak use, 10 years ago, [convulsions] would be a commonly reported thing," Doering said, adding that witnesses to GHB overdoses described a person as "looking like he was dead, and then, scarily, he would start shaking like a mackerel on the deck of a fishing boat."

Paul Kolecki, of the emergency medicine department at Thomas Jefferson University's Jefferson Medical College, concurred that in general convulsions were more likely the result of a drug and alcohol combination.

"It doesn't happen with alcohol but with GHB it can happen, " he said. "GHB was used by anesthesiologists back in the '50s or '60s, and they had to stop because they were seeing these convulsions," he said. "To convulse and go limp, GHB is classic for that," he said, adding that other drugs like cocaine and ecstasy can also cause convulsions when mixed with too much alcohol.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4295570&page=4

Here we will explore the opportunity available to Joran for administering a drug to render Miss Holloway unconscious.



Jossy Mansur confirms that Joran van der Sloot has a history on the island of drinking, gambling, and most importantly SLIPPING PILLS INTO GIRLS DRINKS.
http://thepoliticalteen.net/2005/08/02/jossy-mansur-jvds-has-a-history/


VAN DER SLOOT: "I mean it's happened probably 20, 20 times nothing has ever gone wrong."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,186707,00.html


David Kock
June 9, 2005
 
Satish Kalpoe's attorney, David Kock, said his client told him that van der Sloot asked the Kalpoe brothers to pick him up Sunday night so he could meet up with Holloway and her classmates at Carlos'n Charlie's, a popular watering hole in the capital, Oranjestad.

They said they left the bar around 1:30 a.m. with van der Sloot and an intoxicated Holloway in the back seat, then stopped briefly at another restaurant about a block away before heading out of town, Kock said.
http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1118481459238090.xml&coll=2
http://gwinnettdailyonline.com/GDP/archive/article7CC45D48DBE746FDAC4CA487F0C3448B.asp



Joran van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
 
June 9, 2005
Then Natalee said that she also wanted to drink a Jellyshot but the bartender told me that that bar was closed. After that Natalee and me walked to another bar that was still open at that time. I asked the bartender two shots of Bacardi 151. I still had the whisky coke in my hand. Natalee asked me if she should drink the Bacardi 151 in one go. I answered her affirmatively and she answered me that she would do it in two. Natalee said to me that she needed a "chaser" in order to drink the Bacardi. Natalee drank my whisky coke as a "chaser" and then she drank the Bacardi 151 in two goes

Dave Holloway
NBC/13 Birmingham (Paraphrased)

Believes that the confession is true.
Does not believe that Deepak and Satish are not involved.
He believes that their involvement will come forward very soon.
He is talking about what happened in Carlos and Charlie's the night that Natalee disappeared. Says that there is a back bar at C&Cs and that Natalee was steered to that bar at last call. He had a friend monitor that bar on several nights in succession. At last call guy would order two drinks bartender would pour two drinks normally and would then reach to a shelf over his head and pour a clear substance into one of
the drinks.



There is ample reason to think that not only Joran, but the Kalpoe brothers as well disposed of evidence that was the means of administering such a date rape drug to Natalee.

Joran van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
 
June 9, 2005
After that Natalee, Satish and myself walked outside because Carlos & Charlies was almost empty. Outside I met an American tourist and he asked me if he could get my cup for free. I threw out the little cola that was still left in the cup and then I gave it to the tourist.

Deepak Kalpoe
Suspect Statement
 
June 11 2005
As to your question how far I drove into the afore mentioned street, I can say the following, I think I drove about 55 yards into that street. Joran said that I should let him out there. After that I brought my car to a full stop. Joran got out first and then the girl. He said: Fine, I will see you tomorrow. I asked him how he would get home. He said that he would find a way to get home. I said, and the girl. He answered, I will drop her off at the Holiday Inn Hotel, we will walk along the beach and it is very close by. I had asked him, sure. He answered yes, I will see you tomorrow. I do remember that I saw them walking off hand in hand. I drove out of the street to get back onto the road and proceeded driving into the direction of my house. I do remember that in front of the Marriot Hotel Satish asked me to stop momentarily. I did what he asked me, Satish rolled down his window and threw out the two Yards. After that we drove until we got to the roundabout near Texaco Sasakr. At the roundabout I headed due east in the direction of my house at Hooiberg.


Although Joran van der Sloot claims to have been lying to Patrick van der Eem when he described Miss Holloway's physical condition the morning of May 30th 2005, along with her ultimate fate - there is evidence to support those admissions.


JUG TWITTY:
I know several times when they interviewed me the polis down there they kept asking me about Natalee, different questions about her, if she was an epileptic, and just crazy things like that. So it very well could have been that they took her out, they put something in her drink, she flipped out and she died. But if that's the case I don't understand if they don't know anything about it why didn't they come help Beth and I look the next morning? Why did they tell us they dropped her at the Holiday Inn when they really dropped her at the beach. It just doesn't make sense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXF1u2pdyrs

On The Record
February 4, 2008
 
Greta: Where did the police get that seizure bit if they didn't get it from Joran when they picked him up?

John: I can't imagine any other place, I mean this was right after they had originally interviewed Joran and both Jug and Beth recall at least four (4) investigators asking them whether Natalee had epileptic seizures in the past or any sort of seizure history at all. van der Straaten, Jacobs, Tromp and a female investigator all repeatedly asked both Jug and Beth "does Natalee have any history of this' and they didn't just make that up, they obviously got it from somewhere.

Beth Holloway
February 7, 2008

HOLLOWAY: I couldn't believe it because, I mean, it was so stunning, it was so stunning that I was hearing these words that Joran was saying because two- and-a-half years ago, gosh, Greta, within 48 hours of Natalee's disappearance 48 hours the lead detective, Dennis Jacobs, came to me in the Bubali (ph) police station and says, Does Natalee have a history of epilepsy or seizures? And I thought, No, why are you asking that? And he did it they did it repeatedly to Jug. And when I was hearing that, it just it just felt like it brought everything full circle of what we had been fighting for.


Satish Kalpoe
Suspect Statement
 
June 13, 2005
Then I asked my brother how the girl was doing.


Satish Kalpoe
Suspect Statement

June 11, 2005  
Joran told my brother that he had then tried to wake up the girl but that she had not awakened


Joran van der Sloot's book
Page 161
 
After Freddy's second statement on June 13th at 18:30, in which he keeps insisting that I told him the first story already on May 30th, the police confront us as best friends with each other. Some further statements follow after that. In the end Freddy states in his 6th and 7th statements that I have told him that Natalee went unconscious several times and did not regain consciousness at a certain moment, that I tried to wake her up by shaking her but that but this also did not work.


(Ranger Rover confession)
JORAN VAN DER SLOOT: All of a sudden, Patrick, like a movie, all the things she did.

PATRICK VAN DER EEM: Shaking?

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes, a lot. So I was, like, (DELETED), what's all this?



In conclusion, this document has demonstrated opportunity, motive and results consistent with the administration of a date rape drug.

YOU BE THE JUDGE


On The Record
February 4, 2008
 
John (Q. Kelly): I think they thought this would go away; these are the classic signs from a date rape drug GHB, the foaming at the mouth, the seizure, the cardiac arrest and someone like Joran, when you're the last person with someone alive and you don't call for help and dispose of a body, make up stories in terms of what happened to her, there's a reason you do that and you either summon help because something went wrong or you cover it up because you did something wrong, that's what happened here.


PATRICK VAN DER EEM:  
There must have been something else that happened to her that he just wanted to dispose of her.


Satish Kalpoe
Suspect Statement
June 24, 2005
 
Joran said if a body is found that we are in big trouble

Natalee and her family deserve justice, and we will not let up until they have it!

Natalee's Freebirds
 
http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: SS on April 11, 2008, 03:48:01 PM
I found something very interesting this morning.   At 4 PM on  January 10th, Daury's mother was arrested in Secaucus with 8 kilos of heroin.

Authorities seize 8 kilograms of heroin worth more than $500K

10 January 2008

SEACAUCUS, New Jersey. - Authorities seized 8 kilograms of heroin and arrested a woman as part an ongoing probe into a case with suspected international ties.

State Police Lt. Mark Kelly said Ramona Rodriguez-Tejada, 49, was arrested Wednesday as she attempted to board a bus in Secaucus. He says the powdered heroin she allegedly possessed is worth an estimated $520,000 and likely was smuggled through Aruba.

Kelly says the woman is a native of the Dominican Republic, but has Aruban citizenship and addresses in Brooklyn. Shes being held at the Hudson County Jail on $1 million bail.

Authorities believe the case also has ties to Holland and Haiti, and are continuing their investigation.

http://www.haiti-info.com/spip.php?article4451


Meanwhile, on the same day at 8:35 AM, across the Hudson River, another Tejada was arrested at her apartment in the Bronx for 8 kilos of heroin.  Coincidence??? ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused::

January 10 2008

Top News
Bronx Police Raid Nets 8 Kilos of Heroin, Guns
NYPD officers raiding a north Bronx home earlier this week netted eight kilos of heroin and nine loaded handguns.

The couple who lived in the home, Edwin (Armani) Cruz, 31, and Lucille Tejada, 36, were arrested in the raid. Both face felony drug possession and numerous weapons charges.

The raid came after weeks of investigation by the NYPD's Bronx gang squad. However, police told the New York Daily News that the couple were not affiliated with a gang. Instead, police say, they are part of a larger organization that distributes guns and drugs on the streets of upper Manhattan and the Bronx.

"This was a substantial bust," Dep. Chief Robert Boyce, commander of the Citywide Gang Unit, told the Daily News. "I think we put a nice dent in this operation."

The raid was executed at 8:35 a.m., and the officers caught Cruz and Tejada still sleeping. Officers found the heroin, wrapped in red cellophane, stuffed in an empty vacuum box in the living room. The handguns, described as high-quality weapons, were found in a book bag and in a drawer.

Police say Cruz has an arrest record on charges of robbery, criminal possession of a weapon, and felony possession. His parole ended in 2006. Tejada has no criminal history.

 http://www.policemag.com/News/2008/01/10/Bronx-Police-Raid-Nets-8-Kilos-of-Heroin-Guns.aspx


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: klaasend on April 11, 2008, 03:53:25 PM
SS - Yes, I've posted that in the thread I started about Daury being arrested.

No coincidence.  They are all family and all part of the same drug bust.


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: SS on April 11, 2008, 04:00:07 PM
SS - Yes, I've posted that in the thread I started about Daury being arrested.

No coincidence.  They are all family and all part of the same drug bust.


Thanks Klaas,  I discovered it earlier today and I've been sitting on it until I got home to my computer.  I couldn't wait to get this information to all of you.  I just read where Magnolia had found it, too. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: SS on April 11, 2008, 04:15:35 PM
This is the shopping center where Ramona was arrested while getting on the bus.  There isn't much close by except more shopping centers, some light industrial businesses, and the Meadowlands.  The Lincoln Tunnel into midtown NYC is about a mile away.

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTSN&cp=40.784595~-74.047508&style=h&lvl=16&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=2730194&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1

This is the Hudson County Correctional Facility in Kearny, NJ where Daury and Ramona are currently guests.

tp://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTSN&cp=qsn3v18tqws3&style=b&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=7937242&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: SS on April 11, 2008, 04:19:49 PM
This is the shopping center where Ramona was arrested while getting on the bus.  There isn't much close by except more shopping centers, some light industrial businesses, and the Meadowlands.  The Lincoln Tunnel into midtown NYC is about a mile away.

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTSN&cp=40.784595~-74.047508&style=h&lvl=16&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=2730194&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1

This is the Hudson County Correctional Facility in Kearny, NJ where Daury and Ramona are currently guests.

tp://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTSN&cp=qsn3v18tqws3&style=b&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=7937242&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1


The second link was incomplete.

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTSN&cp=qsn3v18tqws3&style=b&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=7937242&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: klaasend on April 11, 2008, 04:21:06 PM
This is the shopping center where Ramona was arrested while getting on the bus.  There isn't much close by except more shopping centers, some light industrial businesses, and the Meadowlands.  The Lincoln Tunnel into midtown NYC is about a mile away.

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTSN&cp=40.784595~-74.047508&style=h&lvl=16&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=2730194&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1

This is the Hudson County Correctional Facility in Kearny, NJ where Daury and Ramona are currently guests.

tp://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTSN&cp=qsn3v18tqws3&style=b&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=7937242&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1


The second link was incomplete.

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTSN&cp=qsn3v18tqws3&style=b&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=7937242&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1

Thanks SS, I'm going to add this to the Daury arrested thread.  Good stuff  ::MonkeyWink::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: Rob on April 11, 2008, 04:22:04 PM
Quote
Authorities believe the case also has ties to Holland and Haiti, and are continuing their investigation.


yeah no kidding huh!!! wonder if Mos even knows Rodriguez is in jail???


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: klaasend on April 11, 2008, 04:24:59 PM
Looks like another earthquake in Aruba:

(http://www.24ora.com/images/stories/news/breaking%20news.gif)

Movecion sysmico riba tera na Aruba 
Local 
Friday, 11 April 2008 - 15:39 
Un rato pasa varios lugar na Aruba a sinti movecion nan sysmico riba tera. Por menciona Ponton, San Nicolas, y area di hotel a sinti e movecion nan aki cu ta wordo considera como si ta un temblor. Nos tambe a sinti e movecion aki y nos ta buskando mas informacion. Si abo tambe a sinti esaki, duna bo comentario y laga nos sa na ki bario bo a sinti esaki y bo experiencia.
Update: E temblor cu a wordo sinti a pasa net 3 or y 1 minuut di atardi cu un magnitud di 4.0. 

http://www.24ora.com/
 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: LilPuma on April 11, 2008, 04:35:20 PM
Just got this from Natalee's Freebirds:

Was Natalee Drugged?  

YOU BE THE JUDGE  

[snipped]


What we've been saying all along.  She was drugged and raped.  Even Dompig and Stephen Cohen and Mos know that.  Arlene knows it too. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: klaasend on April 11, 2008, 04:37:57 PM
Just got this from Natalee's Freebirds:

Was Natalee Drugged?  

YOU BE THE JUDGE  

[snipped]


What we've been saying all along.  She was drugged and raped.  Even Dompig and Stephen Cohen and Mos know that.  Arlene knows it too. 

Yes, they all know it. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: klaasend on April 11, 2008, 04:41:46 PM
Looks like another earthquake in Aruba:

(http://www.24ora.com/images/stories/news/breaking%20news.gif)

Movecion sysmico riba tera na Aruba 
Local 
Friday, 11 April 2008 - 15:39 
Un rato pasa varios lugar na Aruba a sinti movecion nan sysmico riba tera. Por menciona Ponton, San Nicolas, y area di hotel a sinti e movecion nan aki cu ta wordo considera como si ta un temblor. Nos tambe a sinti e movecion aki y nos ta buskando mas informacion. Si abo tambe a sinti esaki, duna bo comentario y laga nos sa na ki bario bo a sinti esaki y bo experiencia.
Update: E temblor cu a wordo sinti a pasa net 3 or y 1 minuut di atardi cu un magnitud di 4.0. 

http://www.24ora.com/
 





(http://www.funvisis.gob.ve/sismo.php?id=2484)


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Post by: LilPuma on April 11, 2008, 04:42:07 PM
I can only hope that Ramona is distraught enough to give up one or two of the big boys in Aruba.  Maybe a name like Jacobs will come up.  Wonder if she knows she can cut a deal.  Give us the corrupt government officials in Aruba and the big boys in Dominican Republic and Brooklyn and we'll put you in a rundown motel in Mesa, AZ with a new driver's license. 
 ::MonkeyTongue::

Want to tell me how you picked Mesa, AZ?  It is now an area of high end and  million dollar homes through most of East Mesa.  If you have only been to downtown you are missing 80% of Mesa. 

I didn't intend to insult Mesa!  I just picked a warm weather place (cuz if you're relocating, why not to warm weather) that wasn't a big city and Mesa came to mind. 


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: LilPuma on April 11, 2008, 04:44:11 PM
ARUBA IS SINKING.  THEY'RE SWIMMING TO CARACAS! 
[/color]


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: 2NJSons_Mom on April 11, 2008, 04:46:09 PM
Looks like another earthquake in Aruba:

(http://www.24ora.com/images/stories/news/breaking%20news.gif)

Movecion sysmico riba tera na Aruba 
Local 
Friday, 11 April 2008 - 15:39 
Un rato pasa varios lugar na Aruba a sinti movecion nan sysmico riba tera. Por menciona Ponton, San Nicolas, y area di hotel a sinti e movecion nan aki cu ta wordo considera como si ta un temblor. Nos tambe a sinti e movecion aki y nos ta buskando mas informacion. Si abo tambe a sinti esaki, duna bo comentario y laga nos sa na ki bario bo a sinti esaki y bo experiencia.
Update: E temblor cu a wordo sinti a pasa net 3 or y 1 minuut di atardi cu un magnitud di 4.0. 

http://www.24ora.com/
 


"the gods are talking'  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: klaasend on April 11, 2008, 04:48:36 PM
Maybe Jacobs fell out of his chair and it's not an earthquake at all?  ::MonkeyHaHa::


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: klaasend on April 11, 2008, 04:49:27 PM
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/1LOCKED.gif)

Please move to NCD# 747


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2784.0


Title: Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08
Post by: SS on April 11, 2008, 04:51:03 PM
This is a link to a photograph of the confiscated heroin and guns from the house in the Bronx.  For some reason, the photograph is dated January 9th.  ::MonkeyConfused::


http://www.1010wins.com/pages/1453659.php?

Police Bust 'Sophisticated' Heroin Ring in the Bronx

 
NEW YORK (AP)  -- Two people were arrested Wednesday and $500,000 worth of heroin has been seized in the Bronx.

Edwin Cruz, 31, and his girlfriend Lucilla Tejada, 36, were operating a sophisticated mom and pop operation distributing heroin in the Bronx and Upper Manhattan, police said.

1010 WINS AUDIO: Terry Sheridan Reports

Loaded guns, a heroin press and branding stamps were found in the couple's Sedwick Ave. apartment, police said.

The couple's heroin was allegedly stamped "Mercedes."

Photos from 1010 WINS' Terry Sheridan